This Had Oscar Buzz - 290 – The Front Page (with Roxana Hadadi) (70s Spectacular – 1974)

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

1974 brings us to one of the final films of Billy Wilder, which also reunited a screen duo beloved by both Oscar and audiences, Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. Vulture writer Roxana Hadadi is back to the show to talk about The Front Page, an oft-adapted farce about newspapermen getting wrapped up in the case of … Continue reading "290 – The Front Page (with Roxana Hadadi) (70s Spectacular – 1974)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Mel and Hack, Melon Hack and French. Dick Pooh. Flash, exclusive. Here's Front Page News. Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau in the Comedy School of the Year. The Front Page.

Do I have to do everything myself? Get the story, write the story? Listen, sat-ed. I can blow a better story out of my nose than you can write. Al Williams escaped. It's the jail. break of your dreams. Okay, let's have it.

Button up your older cold, when the wind is free, take good, carry yourself you belong. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast associating our trauma with Red Coats. Every week on This Head Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy, and in the month of May, we're celebrating the Oscar era that was the 1970s. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here as always with the little man in my credenza, Joe Reed. Chris, you're always comparing me to Austin

Pendleton in some way or another. I feel like that's the most natural comparison for me. If I had a dime for every time somebody said, you remind me of Austin Pendleton, give a real Austin Pendleton vibe. The trend here is that usually, and as soon as I put this in the outline, I was like, Joe is going to drag me for being in this movie. The first thing that I talk about is the very crispile

thing to talk about. It's Austin Pendleton. It's Austin Pendleton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is true. In this movie in particular, that is the crispate in this. It's skittory little Austin Pendleton. We're going to talk about it. But since it,

Since this is what we are doing in May, and we want to get our guest in as soon as possible, listeners, welcome back, Roxana Haddadi. Yay. Welcome to that. Guys. Thank you. Hello. Thank you. Very excited.

I can save this now because this is going to go up in May. So my new colleague, Roxanna Hadati, from Vulture. Yes. Very excited. Colleagues. What do you think that your bird call would be like? Um, husky and, um, uh, it, like a little insusient. I don't know. Like a crow signaling death.

Yeah, I was going to say. Like, is this like a Corvid? Are you thinking like a hawk sort of thing? A hawk would be all right. You know, I used to have a hawk on my fire escape that would come and visit me on my fire escape. Oh, I love that. I heard the videos. And I lived in Harlem. I had, yeah, I took a bunch of videos because it was just like, it would just sort of like, I'd be sitting up my desk and then I'd look. And like, there's a hawk just like perched on my fire escape. That's great. Yeah.

Perfect. It's crazy. I love that. We have a lot of woodpeckers. There was a woodpecker for a while that would hit the like gas exhaust pipe at the top of the house. Oh, that's not stressful. Which is like the scariest sound of my life. I was like, well, this is a terrorist attack.

They've come for me, one of their own, and they've come for me. That's always a lot. But we do have a lot of hawks because we back up to like a natural gas line that they're never going to develop because it is natural gas. So we have like a hawk's nest that is nearby, which is pretty cool. And we get foxes and stuff. That's cool. We are starting to get more and more now that I'm back in Buffalo. We're starting to get more and more sort of you see more wildlife than you used to.

we've seen like deer in our backyard and we'd never gotten that before and there's been talk of seeing like foxes around and stuff like that I swear to God one night I thought I saw a bobcat running down the street from like my window and this is a very Joe Reid response there's a neighborhood watch says there's foxes Joe Reed I think I saw a bobcat I think I saw a bobcat well I saw a jaguar And it's probably because I did see one time on YouTube a video of somebody going to, like, get in their car in the morning and a bobcat jumped on them and like, yes, have you not seen this? I'll send it to you. I'll look it up and I'll send it to. And this was in, it jumped on their back and the guy's wife literally like walked out of the front door and like grabbed it off of them and threw it. It was amazing. This was in like America. Like where was? Yes. Suburbia, some suburban like driveway. Okay. Can I be honest? Yeah. I mean, that's sort of tight. Like, you have a story for the rest of your life, for the rest of your life. Can you imagine if he wanted to divorce you? You could just be like, hey, remember the time I fucking saved you from a bobcat, you idiot? Yeah, with my bare hands.

Yeah, you eat on that story. That invalidates any sort of prenuptial agreements or anything like that. It's like, no, because remember, I saved you from the bobcat. Yeah. And also. go ahead the other thing i was going to say is unfortunately it does make me think about the staircase and if this man i was that's what i was going to say that's exactly what i was going to say and joe exotic this is definitely a sign that like the staircase is evidence and this video

is evidence that there are too many personal zoos in this country there really are too many people need to stop when i went to flor when we went to florida and they were just like iguanas everywhere and like pythons overrunning the Everglades. I'm like, God damn it. Like, this is because people are the worst. When I lived in New York City, I would always like, you'd hear, you know how like when you live in a big city or whatever and you hear from your family, like, are you ever scared of like X, Y and Z? And it's always like violence and like, you know, like mugging's on the subway. It's like, you know, you know what I'm scared of when I live in a big apartment building is my neighbors who might keep like an urban boa constrictor or like

have like a bee whatever apiary on the roof or something like that and just like you know these people who like would like you know keep beehives on the roof of their apartment building whatever that's insane that's what I'm afraid of like exotic pets getting into the walls like that's what I'm afraid of right 100% you never know no if a snake got into your wall you would never ever you'd never know peace again I think it's important that we bring it back to the staircase so that I can ask you both, do you think that the owl, where are you on the owl theory? Do you believe it?

Discuss. Briefly, discuss. I both believe the owl theory and also think he probably killed her, which I know, like, both things can't be true unless he trained the owl. Yeah. But, like, I believe, that owl thing is so plausible. It's genuinely so compelling. Why were their tiny little owl feathers?

I know. In her head. I know. Chris, what do you think? How do they get there? I more so believe that Joe would believe the owl story than I believe the owl story. That is not a read. I love you.

But I don't think I believe the owl story. I am just grateful that the owl version exists because it's the most fascinating thing about the staircase. It is. It is really funny to me. It's Robert Wagner killed Natalie Wood of, you know, of theories and that, like, well, it's just so cinematic. Yes. I mean, I do think the HBO miniseries was very good. I liked it.

I thought, I thought it was good. I also thought something that was very good is when Chris just said to Joe, you're an idiot. And I love you like that. No, no, it's not that I don't. Listen, Joe is the smarter of the two hosts of this show. And I believe that's not that I think he's stupid. It's that I think he will leap to the scariest option. Yeah.

I do think the owl option is scary. I do think that. Spouse brutally murdering you is scary. Yeah, I can avoid marrying a man who's creepy. I can't avoid walking out of my front door and an owl screaming at me. Right. Right. even even it was a brutal accident is scarier than spouse killed me but then scarier than that is owl clawed my skull right and flew away right 100% yeah I mean the fact that he pretty seemingly had killed before is just like that yeah that doesn't leave the owl that doesn't work very well in his favor yeah very confusing time um I'm

Speaking of people who have killed before, Walter Mathow. Thank you, Chris. Great transition. Noted asshole, Walter Mathow. Ashole, who I love. Yeah. I think when people talk about difficult people, or like, I don't believe that Walter Mathow is on the record of committing any type of crime or, I mean, definitely

he was an abusive co-star. We're going to talk about Art Carney. But I still love walking. watching a Walter Mathau performance, and I can definitely separate the two because he was an absolute monster. I don't think I know the extent of that. I don't know these stories either. You're going to have to educate. Yeah, and so curious.

We'll obviously be talking about Art Carney later in the episode, but it's in the Mike Nichols' autobiography, or not autobiography, obviously. Written by Mark Harris, great. Everyone should read it. But in the odd couple section, there's a little. lot of detail of what a full bastard Walter Mathau was, just like undermining the script, the entire team, his castmates. He was so just vile to Art Carney. I believe there's an anecdote in there that like he was so mean to Art Carney and it caused Art Carney to relapse. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's the reason why Art Carney wasn't in the movie. I was going to say,

I don't know if I've seen the odd couple, but I didn't know that Art Carney was in the odd couple. On Broadway. Oh, okay. That would be the Mike Nichols connection. Is there a reason why? Was he just like a bully who picked a target? Somewhat of just being a bully, but also a control freak, I think, who was somewhat coddled. And if he questioned other people's creative decisions, that was part of it.

Uh, because he really didn't like Mike Nichols, which just makes the, I mean, he must have really respected Jack Lemon, considering how much they did work together across decades, you know, or Jack Lemon just put up with it well because, let it roll it off his back, maybe. I would imagine Jack Lemon had the kind of options, though, that, like, he wouldn't do that if he didn't have to. If he didn't have to. It's not like his only successful movies were the ones he made with Walter Mathau, I don't think. Right. But, like, yeah, interesting. Interesting. Okay.

Well, let's put some color on that. Because he does always seem like, obviously, like a real grump when he shows up on, like, the Oscars or any kind of these, you know, sort of old Hollywood things. All right. And, I mean, you have the type of people that are, I'm playing. a grump. And then you have the people that are like, I might actually be a real grump. Right. I might actually be an asshole. Yeah. Yeah. And yet he's the perfect sort of old Hollywood star because he has that sort of like the rumpled demeanor, the, you know, craggy face and whatnot where it's just like, oh, these are, these were our movie stars back

before we got like really obsessed with everybody needing to be gorgeous. You know what I mean? I mean, we talked about this. It's like these dudes, like him, Gene Hackman, Ned Batten, Ned Beatty, Ned Beatty, yep, yep, yep. The man who recently passed away from Blade Runner, whose name escapes me. Rucker Hauer. Rucker Hauer, sure. No, the character actor.

Did Edward James Almost just die? No, I'm going to find him. I'm going to find him. Blade Runner. I don't, I think Edward James almost. almost is still alive. No, he's still alive. I was thinking of Emmett Walsh. Oh, right. I forgot that he's in Blade Runner. Yes, Emmett Walsh. Great example. Charles Durning. Charles Derning has showed up in so many of these 70s movies that I've been watching for this series. And I get so

happy every time I see that man. Every single time. Because I've been trying to watch not only the ones we're talking about, but like other movies from those years. Yeah, but like these guys, we don't, like, I was going to ask, like, who's our Walter? And like, we don't, fuck, I don't know, Robert Downey Jr., but that feels like such a bleak answer because there isn't really one, right? Right. It's a different, yeah, Downey Jr. has a way different vibe than what sort of we're talking about here. Like, I'm just trying to think of, Giamatti is close. You know, like, but Chiamati has a cuddly thing that Walter Mathau never really has.

Yeah, I don't think he's grump. I don't think he's like perpetually grumpy. No, I think he can pull, I think he can pull off something a little bit close, but also it's just like, there is kind of just, like, one of him. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, Bill Nye can pull off something. But, like, there's, the, the Britishness of it puts a different flavor.

Yeah, that's like a different flavor. It does put a different flavor on it, but I do think probably the closest approximation we might have would be someone British. I just can't come up with the British person. Sure, sure, sure, sure. You don't think it's someone like Jack Nicholson? We haven't had him in so long. We haven't. I'm just trying to think of men who, when they get on stage, they look annoyed to be there.

I mean, late stage, Robert Duval isn't not that. You know what I mean? Where it's just sort of like, you just woke up, you just woke up Robert from a long nap. Has that, you know, has that sort of vibe to it. They just kicked the bed and Steve McQueen started rolling and said, you're on widows, kid. But even like, I'm just thinking like that or like late stage Jason Robards. It's like, but all those guys were just sort of remnants from this. excuse me, this era that we're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. Two things about Walter Mathau that, of course, all conversations on this show lead back to. One, was expecting more about him in the Barbara book, but Barbara really doesn't talk shit in that book, even though we know that she's not nice to her on the set of Hello Dolly. But Barbara became friends with his wife.

Wild, I know. Excellent gossip. Excellent. I also think of another thing we love on this show, the grumpy old men blooper reel where I forget if this was the blooper reel or if it's at the very end of the credits where it's the shot of him in the bathtub and he looks at the camera and said if they'd asked for another nude scene, I would have asked for another million.

Wait, so we're talking about Carol Mathau, his wife, right? I believe. Yeah. So as it happens, literally, I can't remember. I'm trying to remember how I got there, but I was watching a YouTube video where it was a compilation of, they could have just been, like, scrolling into YouTube videos, but it was a compilation of other people telling stories about Marlon Brando. And one of them was on one of those, like, New Year's Eve with Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper, where they were talking to Fay Dunaway. And someone mentioned Marlon Brando, and she's just like one of the best or whatever. And then Anderson. Susan Cooper, who's kind of half drunk at this point, is like, my mom slept with him, you know. And so all of a sudden, because it's mom's Gloria Vanderbilt. And so all of a sudden, the conversation turns into Marlon Brando. He's one of the great artists of all time. Yeah. And he's so working with him.

He's just so inventive. My mom hooked up with him. She did? With hot Marlon Browner, not like Apocalypse now, Marlon Brando. She hooked up with, like, I think it was on the waterfront, Marlon Branden. Wow. She and Carol Mathau both watched the movie and both made a deal that they were going to meet up. Did they really?

You're not kidding. Carol got it first and then set it up for my mom. It was a one-night date. Oh, come on. And apparently, as my mom left in the car, he put his hand on the car and pressed his face against the door and said, you have Japanese skin. I don't know what that means. I'll have to look it up and send you the clip.

I'll have to, if I can find it. It was quite the story. Again, what a time. Are these things happening in present-day Hollywood? I feel like no. And if they are- No, because we're reduced to Anderson Cooper telling stories about who his mom slept with instead of just like, you know, fucking a path through gay Hollywood right now.

What she might be doing, but nobody's talking about it. Yeah, it's like, this is what I, I want, I don't want your opinions about politics. Like, please shut up. No. Like, to all celebrities, I don't care at all, unless your views align with mine and then I do care. Right, right. I want to know who did you secretly have sex with, like seven years ago that you can give me the details about.

And don't let that story be boring? Give us a good story. And don't you know that, like, if you tell us who you had sex with, we will never ask you your opinion on politics, ever. You know what my example of the story is? that I want to know more, the rumors of Scarlett Johansson and Benicio del Toro making out in an elevator. In the elevator, the night of the Oscars? Yes.

Yeah. Also, the story about Scarlett Johansson escaping the celebrity center when they brought her in to interview to be Katie Holmes for Tom Cruise. Did you ever hear that story? What? No. But when Tom Cruise saw the way the story goes, allegedly Scientology cannot sue me if I say allegedly this is a fairy tale that I heard one time, that when Tom Cruise was single post Nicole, and the idea was that Tom Cruise, there were, the idea was Tom Cruise is the best salesman that Scientology could have.

So let's make him a really sort of attractive. And it's not just, you know, that he's, you know, handsome and a movie star. He should also be a family man. And that's why the Katie Holmes thing sort of. happened. And the story was, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. And the story was that they invited a bunch of different celebrities to the Celebrity Center in Los Angeles. I remember hearing that there was a grouping of celebrities allegedly. I did not know that Scarjo was part of them. Scarjo was part of them and ended up in a room like waiting for somebody

to come talk to her essentially, whether it was allegedly, allegedly David Miscayette. Allegedly, Tom Cruise, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. And that before somebody could show up, that she's just like, I don't like this vibe at all. And, like, kind of ducked out of the room and had to, like, roam the halls to find a stairwell to, like, allegedly. Allegedly. Scientologists don't believe in stairs. Allegedly. But anyway, that's a movie I want to watch.

That's a dramatization that I definitely want to watch. See, gossip sucks now. Gossip sucks now. It sucks now. It's so bad. It's... Everything is fake. Juanua is bad and has made everything be fake gossip and we want real gossip.

Here are the two stories that I want more of. I mean, not even more of, but I would watch here. Here, I will watch a six to seven episode mini-series on Katie Holmes divorcing Tom Cruise. Because I feel like that was like the last huge what-the-fuck story. I think unfortunately Brad Pitt allegedly being. abusive to his entire family is also up there. But I think it's been going on for so long now. It's been what, like 10 years, seven years something that I feel like it has sort of long. It's coming up on 10 years from 20 years from Mr. Mrs. Smith. I think it's that they've been

in like divorce proceedings for like seven years. Yeah. It's been a long time. It's like a shockingly long time. So I don't want to see anything about that. It makes me sad and like, sorry for Angelina and her family, etc. Yeah. Um, but I do want to know more about, oh, my God, did it just leave my brain? It was Katie and yeah, it's gone now. It's gone. Did you see that tweet that was going around last week? Oh, no, no, I lied. Sorry.

I do want to know what happened on the Don't worry, darling set. I actually really want to know that. Yes. I'm very curious. That's what I want. Yeah. Did you see the thing that was, the tweet that was going around a week ago, where it was, like, all of the Angelina Jolie movie posters.

And they're like, has this woman ever made a good movie? All I see is mid, whatever. Yeah. For, like, for one thing, you're underrating, like, three or four really good movies, including Salt and Girl Interrupted. So that. But also, Oscar aside, have we ever purported Angelina Jolie to be, like, the second coming of Merrill Street?

You know what I mean? We haven't. She's always been a great movie story. star. She's never been, like, a terrible actress, but it's not like, oh, we were sold this bill of goods on Angelina Jolie being this, like, great actress, you know what I mean? Nobody's ever sort of, that's never been her thing. That's never been her reputation. So what are we even saying? The larger portion of her career, too, she is personally more focused on humanitarian efforts. And then when, like, a action movie comes along, that pays her quite a bit. So she doesn't have to

work as much. There's also a humanitarian component involved as well when you think of something like the Tomb Raider movies. But we move the goalposts on these people sometimes in a way it was just like, not everybody needs to be, you know, judged by the same standards. There are... I also just think it's like, this person was like 20-something. I know, I know. I follow into that trap all the time. Yeah. Look, I know. See, that tweet to me was on par with the tweet from a few months ago that was like Taylor Swift writes music that perfectly encapsulates what it's like

to be a woman. Do men have someone like this? Do you remember the fucking tweet? That's like four different traps right there. Yeah. Yeah. I do remember that tweet. This week, she like renewed the tweet and was like men have been reaching out to me and telling me that they like really agree

that there isn't anyone speaking from men I feel so bad doing this voice mocking this person I'm sorry to them but it really

strangely it's exactly how she sounds yeah I mean accuracy truly but yeah it was that exact same it's like I don't know how fucking old

you are but like you are saying some like really stupid shit like please read a book or go on line or get a job or something.

It's, we're raising these impressionable children in this awful social media environment where like all the worst things are rewarded, like both abusive and also just like insipid. You know what I mean? You're you're rewarded for making these really kind of like basic takes and everybody is like so true and like full adults are being like, yes. The culture is nothing. But discussion hour in a junior year honors English class, and I hate it. And we don't have a teacher who when someone says the stupid comment is like, that's an interesting observation.

Anyone else? Is there any person who can counter this dumbass? Is there anyone who will speak for the rest of them? Right, right. But yeah, I think to take it back to like the acting. conversation. I agree with you. Like, I feel like we, two things have happened. We have obviously lost

the, like, praggy character actor and the types of movies that would, like, sustain that ecology. And then on the flip, we have this expectation to your point, Joe, that everybody needs to be

really hot, talented enough to win an Oscar, also a good person. Right. And somehow still, like, in a Marvel movie. Like, I don't know, but, like, there are so many... They have to have multiple franchises to their name. Yep, yep, yep, yep, exactly.

And we have to like all of those franchises. Yes. So there are so many qualifiers where it's, like, again, like, Angelina was in franchises. Like, this bitch has been in them. And she was one of, like, the first movie stars to get that sort of treatment. But it's like, we've lost the ability to appreciate certain types of movies for what they are. Yeah. Well, and when we do get someone like a lemon or a math owl, the culture has forgotten how to appreciate their skills and the type of movies that they are built for.

Because it feels like we maybe don't, like we've said, we don't maybe have math ows today. But, like, we maybe have three lemons, you know, and they're people who, you know, their movies don't really get their due anymore. And it's crazy to say that about someone like Tom Hanks, but, you know, Tom Hanks movies are, you know, struggling for box office and attention, too, even when they're really incredible, like a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Well, if you look back at that 1974 Oscars and you see some of the. the people that were at it and you're like, oh, the person, like the person on a fame level, who's probably closest to what we had with Angelina Jolie is like a Raquel Welch, right? And if you compare in terms of like what level of actresses they were, and this is no shade to Raquel Welch, who was like great and, you know, quite a few things.

Angelina Jolie is a better actress than Raquel Welch unlike any, any given performance, right? And you, like, you forget the fact that, like, she became famous because she, like, if you watch Girl Interrupted, watch Gia. Watch how she, like, jumps off the screen in those things. Excuse me, watch Hackers, classic cinema. Like, I think we have forgotten how to talk about presents. And I think maybe that's also something to talk about. Have we said that we're talking about the front page? Maybe we know.

Oh, yeah, we're talking about the front page, guys. Billy Wilders, 1974 film the front page. We'll get to it. Remaid material Yeah But I think like this to me We'll get into this further But like this movie was like whatever

Like it was fine There were things that we can talk about it Like it was great whatever I wasn't like blown away But like Susan Sarandon shows up And I was like oh I was like oh Susan Like this bitch like this bitch

Like this bitch Like this is presence Like you don't have a ton to do But wherever you are in the frame, I'm like, we're Susan. Yes, 100%. Susan before Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yes. Yeah, what year was Rocky Horror?

75. 75. We're talking 74. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just, it's one of those things again where it's like, I feel like we have lost or ignore or whatever. There were many different facets. to, like, being an actor and being a successful, engaging, immersive, entertaining actor. And so much, we just flattened out a lot of that with whatever our expectations are.

Yeah. Yeah. We've also flattened out certain star systems and such because Lemon and Mathout were stars at the time. And this was a rebound for Billy Wilder. This is the last hit he had before he died. And I almost brought this up in. our 73 episode where Jack Lemon won for Save the Tiger, he told the press backstage, he's like, yeah, I'm filming with Billy Wilder right now. So this movie was filmed during his second Oscar run,

or his win for his second win, basically. And he's like, if he tries to give me any direction, I'm going to bop him over the head with both of my Oscars now. And that is like, Of course, Jack Lemmon can get away with making a joke like that because he's so gentlemanly and lovely. And to my knowledge, Jack Lemmon does not have any Mathau-esque stories. Well, and he and Wilder had such a long-standing relationship, too. But you know what I mean? Like, they were so close. But, like, if Emma Stone this year, winning her second Oscar, or anybody who won a second Oscar recently made a joke about how they're going to

wield their power against another creative, even if in just a passing joke, they'd be ripped to shreds today. Here are, here are 2,000 words about why Emma Stone making a joke was triggering to me personally. Yeah. I just think there's a lot of like, we're strangely incredibly literal as a society now, but we also like. lack all kinds of media literacy to understand the things we're saying are overly literal. Well, the fact that in the immediate aftermath of that Emma Stone win, where people were trying to drum up some sort of thing where, oh, she was rude to Michelle Yeo because she didn't acknowledge her when she, you know, tried to pull the Taylor Swift with with Celine Dion thing about. Because there was that moment where Michelle Yo sort of, like, hands the Oscar to Jennifer Lawrence to hand to Emma Stone.

But, like, Michelle Yo had to, like, go on Instagram the next day and be like, that's what I was doing. Like, I wanted her French Jennifer to hand her the Oscar. And everybody wants to read their own personal level of, you know, animus into, they don't like that Emma Stone won. So they need to have Michelle Yo be angry that Emma Stone won. And it's like, guys. I don't like that Emma Stone. one. I will go on the record as that. I think that's perfectly valid.

Same, but like... Yeah, I didn't like that. Yeah, the spin is the problem. Now, here's what confused me. Why didn't you just have Jennifer Lawrence introduced Emma Stone? Like, her introduction of Lily. Instead of introduced Lily Gladstone

who she has no connection to. It was awful. It really made me think Jennifer Lawrence. Good actress? I don't know. You did win her show. It was some of those decisions. We talked about this in our post- Oscars episode. Like, love the idea. I love that concept. Just give it a little bit more attention.

Give it a little bit more. You know, think it through a little bit more. Have some of those connections be a little bit more thought through. Never, never let it go. Again, it has to stay on every show moving forward as long as the Oscars exist. However, if you quizzed me on who was even in that lineup of five, I could not tell you. What could I give you 2,000 words on right now? I've never been stung by a jellyfish. I could right now. Yes. Yeah. Right. It's overshadowed every. Yes. 100%.

All right. We should get into what we're talking about. The front page. Billy Walser. And our 70s mini-series where this fits in. So this will be, we're recording these all out of order. So we've already talked about

something for everyone and Harold and Maud and up the sandbox. Up the sandbox and don't look now. So we now around. Yeah, yeah, that was a fun one. Talking about that, we're like, this movie's great.

What a great movie. Didn't you think this was great? This was also pretty great. Yeah. Well, we go from this like movie that is like indelibly sort of like stamped into cinema history, even if the Oscars didn't recognize it. And everybody remembers the sort of. of the twist at the end of Don't Look Now and the sex scene and the stories about it, the performances.

And then we move on to 74, a movie directed by one of the most celebrated directors in American cinema history, certainly. Although he's not American, but he made his movies in America. And it's one of his most sort of anonymous movies. It's one of his most forgettable. I had never known that he had made a version of the front page with Certainly not with Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau This was all sort of like new information to me Well, yeah, because this version of it just becomes like

One of the versions of this original play that are just kind of on the heap And they all stand in the shadow of His Girl Friday Which takes the ingenious decision to make one of the characters into a woman and then therefore you can make it into a romantic comedy it makes it makes so much more sense that these people would be at odds but drawn together and that was like my immediate reaction to the front page i was like oh this kind of exists to show what a great decision it was to do that in his girl and yeah and i mean also just i mean obviously the notorious like Hawksian meter, the, like, rapid speech in his Saturday, too.

Yeah. Yes. This could not stand in any, like, people talk fast in this movie, but it feels so draggy and slow. And it's like, could you speed this up, guys? It goes on for a while, right? The story really kind of like unfolds and unfolds, particularly when at some point you just like, oh, I kind of.

know what this is building up to. Can we maybe just like get there? Can we get there? Yeah. Can we just actually get there? And part of it is that I had seen the play before, but like the play is also long. And it's like, you could have just like, there's stuff that can just get hacked out of here. Like, yeah.

I also think it's some of it is, oh, go ahead. No, please. All I was going to say is that I also like, as much as I really enjoy Lemon and math out together, there's something about their rhythm here that just doesn't like it doesn't entirely work for me and I don't know if that's like the pacing I don't know like Joe if that's to your point of just like

it takes like a long ass time to like really hit where it's going they're also not together for a lot of the movie most of the movie is like Jack Lemon Hot Shot Reporter sort of showboating in front of the other reporters and it's like okay well that's one kind of movie and then the other kind of movie is Jack Lemon being sort of like besieged by his editor who's trying to scheme his way to get his reporter to stay. I'm like, well, that's another kind of a movie. And you've kind of made two movies now. And then out of those two movies, you're going to enter this, you know, escaped criminal antics, some plot that's a part of the movie. That's the best part of the movie. That's the

best part of the movie. That's the best part of the movie. But then also, you sort of then they bite off a little bit more than they can chew by entering into this sort of Carol Burnett subplot with the sex worker who is like aggressed in a in a way that like I do believe the movie understands how ugly that whole thing gets but it's not prepared to sort of follow through with it so then it just sort of gets like well then we move along and do these other things and it's Like, wait a second. You've just like, you've taken the temperature of this movie so far down that like you have to kind of reckon with that or else we're not going to mentally move on back into our little, you know, good fun times. And it doesn't recover from that quickly enough. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't want to be like a 2024 person being like, this movie's terrible to women. But it doesn't understand what to do with that, you know, that stuff. That's the tweet about this episode. Joe said that 1974 was problematic.

And we're going to dig into it. We're going to dig into what you mean. A problematic year, 1974. Yeah. Like, why did it hate women? I mean, who can say? I agree with you. It's definitely one of those things where it's like, I don't, you know, I'm not going to play that game.

Like, whatever. The 70s were bad for women. All times are bad for women. Whatever. Right. Right. 2024 is bad for women. Yeah.

Yeah. It sucks for us. Like, it's fine. Yeah. But I agree with you that, like, she falls out of the window. And then they're like, it's cool. She just has, like, some injuries. And everyone else is like, 10.

It's cool. She moved. Yeah. They're like, bet. Let's just keep going. Yes. And they do. They sure do keep going.

Yeah. Oh, boy. We just got real off to the races. Let's, let's. We did. Let's pull us back. We'll pull it back. We'll set the table a little bit.

Yeah. Before we fully forget, because I fully forgot, we just, like, immediately jumped into the conversation. I should have asked you, off the top, Roxanna, we're asking all of our guests to name their favorite Oscar win of the 1970s. Do you have something? I mean, I do. But my something is, like, the most expected thing that I would say ever, which is that it's Godfather. her too like of course like of course that yeah of course that's the answer we're gonna get into it too yeah and if you asked me tomorrow i'd be like well it's just the main godfather like and then the

next day i'd be like well it's the conversation it's just coppola just whatever copula is doing you know what's that man i just want to see his crazy movie that he sold his wine company to finance i can't wait and of course people are already taking what you know super vague reporting is out there about it and trying to be like this movie is either stupid or this movie is problematic and it's just going to create a buzz for it though it's just going to create a buzz for it yeah yeah i'm going a can go in a can joe before i set the table yes for the front page would you like to talk about our patreon sure uh listeners if you have not already subscribed to the this head oscar buzz Patreon, which we're calling turbulent brilliance, you absolutely should, for the low, low cost of $5 a month, you will get two full-length episodes per month, in addition to all the ones that you get on the main feed. The first of every month, you will get what we're calling an exceptions episode, which is a, not a commentary, but a discussion of a movie that we would

normally have discussed on the main feed because it has the same, this had Oscar Buzz formula, big expectations, disappointing results, except. But, oops, it lucked its way into one or two Oscar nominations, so we can't talk about it on the main feed. But we can talk about it on the Patreon, movies like Vanilla Sky and Charlie Wilson's War, and the mirror has two faces. Charlie Wilson's war. Oh, did you talk about Charlie Wilson. Sure did. The accents, the accents.

We had our friend Katie Rich on to talk about Australia. We did a couple patrons' choice episodes, one of which was. as Molly's game, my beloved Molly's game, which I absolutely adore. 45 minutes of an incredibly fun movie. So good. Coming soon, coming in only, I believe, a couple days from the time that this episode drops, you'll be getting our episode on 1975's The Who's Tommy, which will be a classic 70s film and an important part.

part of our You want the full 70s experience this month you gotta sign up for the Patreon That's right That's right On that's coming

on the 18th Our schedule is a little bit Off kilter Because we wanted to keep We wanted to release These movies

In chronological order But your second bonus episode Every month If you are a patron Will be an excursion Those things Will sort of go off

format And we'll talk about things Like We'll both get A entertainment Fall movie Preview

from back in the day, and we'll go through it, and we'll watch old movie awards, or we'll talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables, we'll talk about this Oscars race that we're in right now, and we'll give our own awards, which we did this year. We called them the, this had Oscar bus superlatives, and we had quite the insane time doing that. So in addition to that, we've got a hotline that you can call and ask us questions, which we will answer and post on the Patreon periodically. And in general, can, you know, comment on the episodes. We've been having a lot of fun hearing your comments on that.

In general, we are having a hoot and a holler of a time over on Turbulent Brilliance, and we want you to join us for the low, low cost of a Baja Blast at Taco Bell, as we're saying, because the cheesy Gordita Crunch has gotten too expensive. Damn you, inflation. How long is the cheesy gordita crunch? I saw it for like $6.50 the other day. I was... Was this on a food delivery app, though?

Because those things should be marked up. door-dashing this before, Chris. Oh, my gosh. Sorry. I don't really still like $3. I no longer live in New York City where the Taco Bell canteen is on my walk home. I was going to say, you're going to just like point the finger at me and be like, you go into Taco Bell. What are you trash?

What are you a peasant? I like to imagine Chris as like eating at the can't the can'tina on like upper level, like. The Taco Bell Hotel, I. I am the, I am the target customer for the Taco Bell Hotel. Aren't we, aren't we all, aren't we all? I was shocked that a McDonald's meal was more than $10. It was like incredibly upsetting. Yeah, I know, I know.

But everything's going great, right? Everything's fine. Oh, yeah, no, it's perfect. Everything's good. Everything's all right, yeah. No complaints, no problems. Yeah. Don't let anyone tell you different.

What is going great is this has an Oscar buzz, turbulent brilliance. And you should join us. We are inflation proof at $5 a month. We are not going to raise our price because the world has gone to shit. So enjoy that. Say that. Tell that to your friends. We are the one-stop shop for affordable entertainment. And yeah, come join us. Come have fun. Listener, we are here talking about the front page directed by one legend known as Billy Wilder Written by Wilder and Frequent Collaborator IAL Diamond Based on the play by Ben Hecht and Charles MacArthur, Motion Picture stars Jack Lemon,

Walter Mathau, Susan Srandon, Vincent Gardinia, Charles Durning, David Wayne, Alan Garfield, Austin Pendleton, trusts and believe I will have things to say. And also Carol Burnett. Who knew we would be doing a Carol Burnett movie at some point? I know. Did I make the joke previously about how Vincent Gardinia and Charles Durning in the same movie is like a character actor, celestial event where like two planets are too close to each other?

And it's just like you... It's file core. It's file core. I love those guys. Basically, yes. The movie... Charles Durning will show up in a movie. Just will show up in a movie.

Yes, yes. Great. Charles Durning, what's the movie that I was watching that it was Charles Durning? And I was like, he's so handsome. I'm like, I will fan girl over Charles Durning. I think that makes a ton of sense. It makes. Charles Durning in the Joe Flam story, or Joe Flam in the Charles Dernard's story.

We can't talk about, we cannot sidetrack this, this show about talking about Joe Flam. Okay. Listen, as a gay man. Top, Top Chef, Joe Flan? Yeah. Chris Files' TV crush is Joe Flam from Top Chef. And I honestly, I see it. Okay.

Okay. There's the rule of, you can like one Scientologist. I think the same rule is you as a gay person can have a crush on one straight person. That's it?

You only get one? No, I defy this. I absolutely. You get one without sounding creepy. Creepy, sad maybe, but like, not creepy. I won't own creepy. Well, anyway, Joe Flam. But let's be honest. No, Joe Flam's a good straight guy to have a crush on. These crushes are not going,

I mean, forgive me for saying this to all of us, but our crushes are not going to happen. Like, it's all fantasy. Who cares? Let me live in the dream. Let me live in the dream. Yeah, like, who care? Do you think Ryan Gosling is at home right now being like, I don't know, Roxanna's really into me? Like, I don't know.

I thought you were going to say you're allowed one top chef crush. And I'm like, do I pick Sam from season two or Shoda from a couple of seasons ago? Oh. Sam was Chicago, Sam? Sam was, no, Sam was, who was, where were they in the second season? They were in San Francisco? No, they were in Los Angeles? He's like the tall brunette, right?

Oh, yeah, from Chicago with like the hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Sam was hot. Yes, he is from Chicago. Yeah. Yeah, Sam was hot. I'll give you that. Sam tailed it.

The front page opened on December 18th, 1974, fun for the whole family at the holiday movie season. Yes, yeah. Antics. Yeah, I guess. I could see that. Dad goes and watches the front page. The kids go and watch, I don't know, a Disney short or something. Sure.

Yeah, I don't know. We used to have monoculture, and it was things like this. Roxanna, as our guest, you are charged with giving a 60-second plot description. Are you ready to do so? Yeah, but this is always so hard. Okay, okay, but yes, I'm ready. All right. Your 60-second plot description for the front page starts now.

Okay, it is a newspaper drama, hijinks-filled, it's one of those movies from back in the day that you're like, what genre is this? And they were like, all the genres. And it is about a star reporter played by Jack Lemon, who is like, fuck journalism.

I'm leaving. I'm going to go do like ad shit. I'm going to do PR. Like, I'm just going to, like, live my life and, like, marry my girlfriend and just, like, leave. Like, journalism doesn't matter to me anymore. And his reporter, his editor, because played by Walter Mathau, was like, no, you have to stay.

Like, I'm weirdly connected to you as my star reporter. Oh, my God. And so there's a banter. They banter. Mathau keeps, like, sabotaging his attempts to leave. And then suddenly what becomes important is that a convict, Earl Williams, played by our beloved Austin Pendleton, escapes. And suddenly the two of them, Hildy and his editor, are now responsible for Earl and figuring out the, like, corrupt story surrounding him and his escape.

There we go. Ten seconds over. At a certain point, you check out of the plot in this movie. Yeah. And then it's just like, ah, brer, and it's just that, that noise. You just want them to go back to doing bits. The best portions of this movie are the bits. And we know some of them because we know a version of them because I think we've probably all seen His Girl Friday or at least, you know, we've seen clips of His Girl Friday. We know the version of this story that works at the best it's going to ever work. But like the bit where Walter Mathout goes and fakes an identity to get Susan Sarandon to leave Jack Lemon, you know, that's always going to work. But there's not enough of that.

No. Right. Actually, maybe my favorite bit of non-Austin Pendleton comedy in this movie is where he sees the poster going into her dressing room that says four stars from, what was the movie that's the poster and he takes off one of the stars? That was funny. Look, I think their antagonism is funny, you know, like Susan Sarandon just like being in love with this man and realizing that like he's never really.

going to break free of this industry. Like, how exhausted she is by that is funny. And she doesn't put up with it for very long either. No, she doesn't. Which I like. She sort of, like, brings up all his stuff from the car, and then she's like, I think I met somebody

down, you know, downstairs waiting for you. And it's just like, all right. Like, she's got a little bit of sass to her, which I like. I do love this idea. Watching old movies like this, you wonder how prevalent it was where it's just like, well, I've decided to end my life as I know it and get married.

And because getting married now, I have to have whatever job my father-in-law decides to give me. Everybody married into, like, people who owned, like, businesses that had jobs in, I guess my best friend's wedding maybe is like the last vestige of that, right? We're like, he's going to marry into Cameron Diaz's family whose father has a job for him in PR, right? It's kind of the same, you know, deal. Definitely the same modern deal Because of course, immediately I thought of Mad Men And like Ken marrying into

Like the DuPonts or whatever Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah But that I guess just was just what happened In the 60s or whatever So you just You married someone and And they decided what career you had And you said goodbye to all your friends

And your career and whatever job you had But Joe, the economy supported it There were enough jobs that like Fathers-in-law could be like, oh, of course, I'm holding this job for my son, Bruce, and he'll make millions of dollars and be set for the rest of his life. You know why? It used to be a country, Joe. And also, people kind of rarely had careers back then.

Like, you had, like, people, of course, were, like, there were newspaper men and writers and there were doctors and whatnot. But, like, a lot of people kind of just, like, went to business, and they sort of worked in a company, and then that was just sort of where you. worked and sometimes you could work for a different company and a lot of you just sort of like adapted to whatever you know at least from what i'm from what i uh ascertain from watching the films of course i wasn't around at the time um but i know my dad but like my dad you know yeah people don't know that i'm the benjamin button of uh that i'm on the i'm on the way back of film media of film media exactly

But like my dad, you know, worked in essentially like manufacturing and what that meant was just like, and it was that old sort of like American dream thing where he started off, you know, making windshield wipers in the factory and then moved up to, you know, scheduling the manufacturing of the windshield wipers and then sort of like managing the schedules and sort of like, you know, moved up and up and up and never to like owner, you know what I mean? not to like that, like, never to like the C-suite, but like there was, you know, forward momentum for people with careers. I don't know why this is pertaining to the front page anyway, but it's just like this, this old, sort of all-timey view of work, which now I feel like it's where we've sort of entered the either find your, find your bliss sort of like, what's your talent, you know what I mean? whether you monetize your identity right right because that's the only thing you kind of can monetize because like the idea of just like well I'm just going to like go find a job somewhere and it's like well we kind of don't have those anymore so you know you know why Joe because we don't have a middle class anymore this is really get into it let's get into like you know who would probably have something to say about that Earl oh I was going to say Earl Earl Earl in this movie

Earl would definitely have something to say about this and so one of the interesting things as I was sort of reading up on this this you know play that becomes a movie in His Girl Friday and then like a couple different versions as sort of like evolves as it goes is the nature of the crime that the Austin Pendleton character in this is sort of being hanged for essentially and it goes from

you know killing a cop to you know communist sort of like agitation or whatever this movie sort of combines the two

but you figure like it's it feels like much more of a political thing and then there's this idea of that he's being hanged as a sort of political prop for a

mayor and a sheriff who are running for re-election and this very cynical idea of they want to like court the black vote because this guy killed a black cop so he you know they can you know sort of like and run around this guy and I was like that's interesting to sort of like see how that evolves from when you could just be like very cynical about it to a more sort of we're going to lean a little bit more to the Oh, they're trying to make a show of it because he's a communist. He's a socialist, whatever, because that was sort of the social politics of that day. I don't know. So that was sort of interesting. It's sort of interesting for that to be a 1974 perspective. I guess I'm just surprised by that.

It feels like a movie that probably should have been made a decade, a version of this movie that should have been maybe a decade earlier. A decade or two earlier. It feels much more 60s and 70s. It's mustier in its periodness, you know, I think especially, it's also interesting, not just that this is coming off of lemons win, but that this is coming off of the sting. I thought about that a lot, which in terms of, I don't love the sting, but as a piece of nostalgia and making people nostalgic for an older time.

I mean, like, we joked about this. the entertainer became like a pop hit from the sting. Yeah, it's like charted. Like the entertainer charted in the, in 73. Yeah. And like this in terms, it feels very displaced not only for the audience, but in its point of view in terms of, like big stars and big directors were making things that were actively engaged with the culture.

in politics of the time. And this feels like it's even like as you say these like reiterations or tweaks done to the story across different versions. It feels like it's way old news.

Yeah. It feels very old. Like I'm looking like other 1974 political films. And it's like the conversation which we sort of talked about obviously parallax view like all of these movies that when I think about like like 70s films that sort of have something to say about like political corruption

or the way that like the ruling system of power will agitate in order to send a certain type of message like this was very much that era but with like a specific political meant that I just, I think this movie either because it's like attempting sort of to do hijinks or because they're not exactly sure how to use this character in a way

so that they don't like seem to support his political perspective. Right. It's a, it's a detail that you're like I don't, where is this going to go and it doesn't really go anywhere, really.

Yes. even you look at like what year did um pelham one two three happened like not too far not too long after this right it was probably i always feel like that's like 78 or something like that it's the same year 74 oh no okay okay that's even more stark then because you look at like obviously they're not telling the same kinds of stories but like like pelham one two three feels like okay we are very much of our time this very sort of like, you know, a loosened tie cop action, right? Where the city's bearing down on this guy to, we've got to solve this crisis. And it's obviously a much more sort of stylish

movie for as grungy as Pellamonti 3 is. Like everything with like the criminals and like that sort of that the group of criminals I think is really stylish. And then at the center, you you have this, like, tremendously rumpled Walter Mathau as one of my favorite sort of, you know, quasi-action stars. And then in front page, everything is really sort of slick and throwback and an exercise and nostalgia. But still somewhat undefined and not like... Not of a specific period. Not specific enough in the period. I feel like not specific enough in the character is.

like all these other newspaper men just kind of are like more of a you know shapeless blob that all moves together rather than they're just a Greek chorus really yes but like you can't distinct like I love Vincent Gardena and I love Charles Durning you can't discern even those actors from anyone else if like maybe I just wanted like the Dick Tracy version of this material that's more heightened or something that realizes there's gold being left on the floor from these actors. Yeah. Speaking of gold, did we make note of how many guest stars from the Golden Girls show up in this movie? One of the reporters is Herbettlement, who was Stan Zborneck on the Golden Girls throughout. Sure. Love that. One of them, I think it's the mayor or someone, turns out to be Harold Gould, who is,

the guy who plays Miles on the Golden Girls, who ends up romancing Rose later on in that series. And then David Wayne, who plays the sort of fancy pants reporter, who gets the brunt of this, like, homophobic joke where, like, don't get caught in the bathroom with, you know, Julian or whatever the hell his name is. Yeah. Played Blanche's father, played Big Daddy on Golden Girls for one episode.

There were two different actors who played that part, but he was, I think, the first one. Which he should, the episode that he shows up, he's only in one episode, but trivia, it's the episode where Dorothy and Rose write the jingle about Miami, so. I wonder if there's casting director overlap, or if it's just one of those weird things. I wonder. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't check that up, but yeah, I should. Hmm. I just thought that was interesting. I'm glad we all agree on Austin Pendleton, though, as being. Okay, can I say that I, uh, we, um, we. finished homicide. And I was like, oh, one of my favorite guys. It's just like this quirky Emmy who's just like making uncomfortable jokes. I'm like living it up. And I was like, man, we looked him up and I was like, all right, some guy named Austin Pendleton. I don't recognize him for anything. And then I hit play on this movie and I heard that voice. I was like, this motherfucker.

I mostly remembered him first from my cousin Vinnie, where he plays the stuttering lawyer in my cousin Vinnie. But I feel like he would show up. Now I've got to look up the Austin Pendleton filmography. Austin, I mean, not just his filmography, but all of his theater work, too. He's obviously even more prolific in the theater than he is on film. Sure. But I don't think I definitely didn't see any theater that he was in.

I'm trying to think of where, well, he was in short circuit, so I'm sure I remember him, like, on a cellular level. Because I saw that movie eight billion times when I was a kid. My cousin Vinnie, searching for Bobby Fisher. He's in... What's up, Doc? What's interesting? I thought, like, when I was like, Austin Pendleton's kind of hot in this movie to me,

it's two years out from What's Up Doc where he's not hot to me. No. Who was he at What's Up Doc? Because I saw that movie. He's one of the, like, convention goers that I think is... Is he hitting on Barbara in the movie? Isn't he being skeezy? Yeah.

I vaguely remember that. Yeah. he's also definitely in the Muppet movie he's one of the villains right isn't isn't he one of the people sort of pursuing them or something think so he's it's so funny looking at his face and what's up doc i'm like i i totally see right it's like when you see one expression you're like oh i understand that i've seen this expression in other things he's a really underrated that guy actor yeah we talked about him on the patreon when we did our mirror has two faces episode because he's the person he's the person who Barbara is like genuinely so mean to in that one where she's just like, I mean, whatever, nobody has to date anybody they don't want to, but like she really is hung up on him being ugly and him being, you know, that being with him just sort of means that I've decided that I'm going to accept being ugly or whatever.

And it's just like, Barbara, like, I don't know. Yikes. Yes. His credits, though, are like insane. Like, he's, he was on literally probably every television show and then I 1980s and 90s. It's crazy. He voiced a character in finding Nemo called Gurgle. I don't know if that's a character.

See, one of the fish tank ones? I don't know, but I love that. And of course, because he was on homicide, Roxanna, of course, at the same time, he had to also be on Oz. Because if you were on homicide, you also had to be on Oz. That was the rule. That was the rule. That was the rule.

Again, we used to have television. We really did used to have television. We really used to have it. We did. Although you telling me that he was in searching for Bobby Fisher does make me want to say Ripley good. I got to start Ripley. I haven't watched that I. Oh, yeah.

You interviewed Steve Zalian, right? I believe I talked to you before you had, yes. How'd that go? It was good. He, uh, it's supposed to run soon. So this comes out after it will have run. But he definitely... Did you tell him that you have friends who did a whole episode on all the King's Men and how it was a... Not good.

A flop that didn't get asked her nomination. I will not. I did not tell him. Sorry, Steve. And I won't send Netflix an email that's like, by the way, can you pass this along to Steve? I respected him talking about how incredibly meticulous he is. And I wish we had had like another two hours for me to ask him like every process question I want. want. Oh, I bet. Because he's also, like, one of those people who, like, you turn to in Hollywood if your script isn't meeting snuff.

And, like, Steve Zillion, he'll come in and fix it. Yeah. I mean, co-wrote Gangs of New York, which, like, formative Roxanna Hadati cinema. But he said that his script. Yeah, his Ripley script was 500 pages. He just wrote it as, like, one gigantic script. If there were ever dudes be, guys being dudes, it was the dead rabbits. Like, they were the. The ultimate guys being dudes. 100%. And one of them was a woman with like filed down teeth. Good for her. Yes. Good for her. Yeah.

Aspirational. 100%. She took her passion and she monetized. When Irene Kara saying, take your passion, make it happen in FlashDance, What a Feeling. That's what she was talking about. That's what she was talking about. That's exactly what she was talking about.

Yeah, absolutely. She knew. She knew. I want to talk about the 1974 Academy Award. Let's do it because this. A lot of them are available to watch on YouTube. Not all of them, but a lot of it. You can't watch the performances, but the awards are all there.

I do have one thing that I want to ask the two of you as like experts on this. And we might get to this later, so forgive me. But like, why do we think this flopped? Because to me, it's because it feels so unmoored. and, like, not actually of this era of Hollywood. Is that also how people felt about it at the time? Or, like, what was the general, like, disdain vibe for? I think if you're looking at the front page, and we should also say, like,

this got a handful of Golden Globe nominations, so it didn't, like, disappear. It was in some sort of conversation. It was nominated for Best Picture Musical or Comedy, and also both Lemon and Maffau were nominated in Best Actor. in a musical or comedy. Interesting. Losing to Art Carney. They lost to Art Carney for Harry and Tonto.

And then picture, they lose to the longest yard, which I think is interesting. The front page and Harry and Tonto. The original globes give best picture to the hangover. They gave it to the longest yard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think if you're in the same year as Chinatown, the Godfather Part 2, conversation, woman under the influence. Like, many, Alice doesn't live here anymore.

Like, not every movie that year was sort of part of the next, you know, the new, the new wave of the new Hollywood, I should say. But, like, as we've sort of moved through the 70s, you start to see that, like, the balance is tipping ever more towards that new Hollywood. In the earlier years in the decade, it's like Patton is holding down the fort, right? And as it moves on, that old guard is giving way more and more. And so it doesn't surprise me that now when you hit this year's Oscars and your best picture lineup is four of these sort of new Hollywood movies, Godfather Partooch in town, The Conversation Lenny. And the only one holding it down for some semblance of the old style is the Towering Inferno, which isn't really that old. It's sort of this, like, sort of side, you know, sideways trend of disaster movies. It's not like the disaster movies were a throwback to the 40s, you know what I mean?

Well, the genres of, like, splashy studio movies constantly change, especially what you see represented at the Oscars. You have the era of, like, biblical epics that you have the era of musicals. In many ways, that version is disaster movies. In many ways, Moses on Mount Sinai was the towering inferno, so yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With Melissa Manchester songs. That's definitely so interesting because as I was watching it, it just, again, and I'm sorry to keep harping on this, but it just kept blowing my mind that it was 1974.

Like, it was just really difficult to reconcile. So it is very, it feels very telling to be like, oh, of course this was Godfather part two year. And of course, that was, like, pushing us forward. It makes a little bit more sense to me. It makes a little bit more sense to me if you told me it's the year after the sting. Like, that at least, like, oh, okay. But if you said, like, it's the year before Nashville and one flew over the cuckoo's nest, I'm like, that's not possible. It's the year before that's not possible. Like, that's what's crazy to me. Yeah. Right. Right. It's just this. It's just, it's just

this weird disconnect. But that's why the 70s is such a, like, an interesting decade to really dive into is because it is this sort of this sea change happening in front of you. And, you know, we won't talk about the 80s. And yet, it's a sea change, but it's also, I think, representative. Like, the things that people complain about with the Oscars today, they existed at this time, too. You know, like, I think the prime example in 74 is, actually an Oscar win that I would stand by, and that's Art Carney, winning for Harry and Tonto,

which, I mean, like, that's an Oscar win people like to dog on, and I think a lot of the people that dog on it haven't seen the movie. And, like, yes, I understand. Well, first of all, it's a cat, so you can't dog on it, because it's a cat. Piece of shit. Yes, we know that Tonto is a cat. Art Carney grew very fond of that cat I like that movie It's a Mazursky movie I love Mazursky

And Art Carney Like I think the reasons why Art Carney Beat someone like Pacino for Godfather 2 Is the type of logic that really goes into Oscar wins we don't like But I think in terms of if you lumped all of those in a pool together of like sentimental win

over, you know, heavier competition. If you watch it's a much better performance than the ones you would put it next to. If you watch the clip of him winning, that audience leaps to their feet. Like, it's not like a grudging standing ovation.

Like, it's, it is an enthusiastic, enthusiastic standing ovation. The other thing is, I haven't seen this movie yet, but I finally watched the trailer. I only really knew it as,

oh, this is the movie where old-ass Art Carney beats, you know, these four legendary performances or whatever. Well, and the thing was, he was like two decades younger than the character. Yes, he wasn't that old. That's where his joke comes from in his speech, where it's like, my agent told me to take it, you are old. You are old, yeah, yeah. But I watched the trailer, and I'm like, oh, okay, like, this isn't, it's not Alice doesn't live here anymore, but it's like stylistically not so far. removed from those sort of slice of life things that were also popular. Like, it's Mizorski.

So you think of, like, those, you know, the Marsha Mason movies or the Jill Claiburg movies. And, like, no, it's not Casavetes. It's not quite as hard as, you know, a woman under the influence or something like that. It's not as big in scope as what Coppola was doing and what, you know, Polansky was doing and what Beatty was doing and that kind of a thing. It's not on the bleeding edge of counterculture, like some of the... It's not so shaggy that it's Hal Ashby.

Right, right. But there was a lot... It also goes to show you that, like, there's a lot of different types of new kinds of movies being made in the 70s. And it's not like this was nothing we'd ever seen before, but it's an evolution of stuff that we had seen before. And at least it's an evolution, you know what I mean? Yeah. Another movie... Sorry, go ahead.

All I was going to say is it seems like a time of incremental... chain, but definitive chain. Whereas, like, I think now, again, sorry to continuously make, like, these days comparisons, but, but, like, something I talk about a lot with my partner is, like, what was the last big cultural change that happened and, like, how has that affected everything? And, like, it's pretty much the internet, right? And it's just, like, I don't know what else about, like, cinema or its visuals. or story structure, like, I just, I, it's difficult for me to think about, like, the last, like, 10, 20, 30 years and find a parallel for what was happening at this time, which was like, it just feels, I mean, even the movies we've talked about now just feels incredibly different in terms of, like, what movies began to look like, feel like, sound like, all that.

Well, and it feels like watching old Oscar ceremonies like this, you get a sense that people knew what was happening at the time. Like, sometimes you don't really know a big change like this is happening until you get a little bit of hindsight and you look back. I think a little bit of that was true about the sort of 90s indie stuff. Like, people talked about the indie stuff happening, but I think you didn't, you had to have a little bit of distance before you really, like, saw the effects of that. Whereas I feel like in the sense. 70s, because there was so much culture stuff happening in politics, in the world, in the country, right? And you had these things were like, at the Oscars, you would get this convergence of old Hollywood and New Hollywood were like Frank Sinatra's up there, like, yelling at Dustin Hoffman, you know, about not being, you know, appreciative enough about the Oscars and whatever. Because Dustin Hoffman ultimately is even more outspoken over the course of the decade than George C. Scott. about being against the Oscars

and how does that end with Dustin Hoffman winning an Oscar. Right, right. And that's what I... One of the sort of interesting things about watching this ceremony play out is I think the presenters and the

what you call it, the hosts and whatnot are sort of lean more heavily towards the old Hollywood, right? The hosts are Bob Hope, Shirley Maclean, Sammy Davis Jr. and Frank Sinatra in different, they sort of like take different segments. It's Bob Hope's first time back after 1970, I believe, because he bombed so hard. And people were like, we can't do more Bob Hope. And they bring him back. And he was well received on this one. Oh, my God. I think I would absolutely sign up to watch an entire Oscars hosted by Sammy Davis Jr. though. He's so good.

Yeah, that would be great. it's a really, really good vibe he brings. But also laid back, too? Yes. Like, Shirley McLean's a little too, like, not aggressive, but, like, she's really, like, she's trying. She's dancing as fast as she can. She's dancing as fast as she can, I think, that's a very good point. But, like, I like Shirley McLean, so, like, I'm fine with that.

Sinatra is clearly trying to, um, he has an agenda here. And that agenda is sort of to, like, push back against these. ungrateful little shits who don't appreciate the Oscars and whatnot. The very first thing he talks about is, like, what an honor this is and whatsoever. And, like, you know, I agree with all of that. Like, I have reverence for the Oscars that I probably shouldn't. But that's my thing. But even I am just, like, watching this and I'm just like, take a fucking clonopin, Frank.

Like, Jesus fucking Christ. Like, what's going on? Remember thing about Frank, unfortunately, is like, I love Frank. But I'm like, like, when you listen to Frank at certain times, you're like, he's about to say a racial slur. He's one million percent. He wants to say it so bad. Well, okay, let's get into the big dust up with Frank Sinatra in this Oscars, which like the, so what happens is Hearts and Mines wins the documentary Oscar. It's a documentary about the Vietnam War. We are just at the end, the tail end of the Vietnam War. They're basically like leaving, you know,

Saigon somewhat as we speak. Mm-hmm. Okay. And what is the documentary, like, Vietnam War bad or, like, what's the doc? It's critical. It's, it's, it is, yes. It's not like fire brandy, but it's critical. Yes, it includes interviews with political figures, et cetera.

In the speech, they read a telegram from the ambassador of the PRG saying, thank you to the anti-war move our friends in the anti-war movement you know just reading a statement just reading a statement and frank sinatra and bob hope lose their shit backstage basically yeah they spend the whole they spend basically a whole ceremony until the point later in the ceremony where sinatra comes out and he has i have a telegram from the academy the academy which this week was basically written on the spot by Bob Hope, his co-host, saying, we are not responsible for any political references made on the program and we're sorry they had to take place this evening.

Shirley McLean backstage is, like, pointing a finger in their face and, like, arguing with them to not do it, and they go out and do it anyway. Yeah. John Wayne's backstage being pissed off about it. It's an interesting... It's a very, like, proto-Michael Moore being booed moment. it is well and in fact when sinatra reads the statement from the academy about how the academy says like there are loud booze that you hear from the audience to the statement

fascinating yes yeah yeah um which again it shows you sort of where um public sentiment sort of like the michael more thing where when michael more said the the uh we live in fictitious times with wars for fictitious reasons it was people booing him and then people booing the people booing him. And it became this sort of like cacophony of you didn't really know what the balance was. And then the next year, when there were jokes made about Bush and about sort of the folly of, you know, his military escapades or whatever, the audience was already sort of coming around to supporting more unambiguously this sort of anti-war. But of course, we're a year later and it's a little late for putting the genie back in the bottom.

bottle and all that sort of stuff. A little late to not kill thousands of people. Well, and it really made me think of Jonathan Glazer, like not to get too hot button and all this sort of thing, but like it was hard to not think of the Jonathan Glazer moment where, and like this was all happening in 74 at the Oscars, happening backstage.

And it did make me feel like, at the very least, the Oscars are not going to take out. anybody at the knees for making a statement like that. But it wasn't the Oscars taking the hearts and minds people off at the knees. It was literally Bob Hope and Frank Sinatra under no guidance, hijacking it, and on behalf of the Academy, making this decision. But it's because nobody could stop them because they had that degree of, you know, power at the time. And, you know...

Is this the first time something like this happens? politically, I think, I can't think of anything before this. There was, of course, several years later when Vanessa Redgrave made the speech when she won Best Supporting Actress for Julia, where she references this movie that she had produced that was supportive of the Palestinian cause in Israel, and she had been boycotted for it, and they were protesting against her. One of the screenings was bombed. Yes, it was very, very contentious. And she mentions in her speech, thank you for giving me this. Because there was a lot of talk that she wouldn't win the Oscar because there was such sentiment against her. And she said, thank you for not letting the feelings of a band of Zionist hoodlums stop you from.

And she said, you know, from supporting somebody who opposes fascism and all of its forms. You do hear audience reaction when she said that. And then Patty Shiaski later on in that ceremony comes out and says, I'd just like to say to Miss Redgrave that you don't need to come out here and make any political statements a simple thank you would have sufficed. And so this is also one of the things I think that the Oscars are transitional for too, because you have at this point all of these Oscar speeches where Oscar's already like, should we even be doing this? because you have all of these high regard people like George C. Scott saying calling them a meat parade you know and now you have this old guard like the Sinatra's that are fighting back against the stat like keeping the status quo and the meat parade for lack of a better word where you can't even say something political because you go back to that statement that Bob Hope said and it's not any content about what was said necessarily. just the fact that they made a political statement on the telecast. And it's like, you just shouldn't be saying things like that. This is after the Brando thing, right?

This is after. I was just about to say, yeah, this is the year after Brando. Two years after the Brando thing. Which we didn't really talk about in that episode. Um, no, we it was, the Brando thing was 72. So we haven't recorded. Oh, 72. Okay, never mind.

Yeah, yeah. We're doing these all out of order. We are doing these all out of order. But yeah, the Satchin Little Feather thing, where again, it was reported, and this has been disputed since. But it was reported at one point that John Wayne had to be held back from charging Sushin Littlefeather, which that has been since sort of doubt cast upon that, but whatever it was. Well, John Wayne was backstage at this Oscars being pissed off about this statement, too, so. About hearts and minds, yeah.

Yeah. So I'm not prone to entirely disbelieve that, John. Yeah, I'm casting John Wayne in my. mind as a villain in these stories. And in fact, if we want to go through, like, kind of every year in the 70s, right? So, 1970, the 1970 Oscars, and by the way, when we say all of this, we're talking about the Oscars that were held, the calendar year after, but I'm holding the line. The 1970 Oscars, George C. Scott refuses to show up and refuses his Oscar.

1971 is Clute, right? Chris? Right. I think so. Yes. In 1971, Jane Fonda wins for Clute is notew. this is in the heat of Hanoy Jane and all that. And there isn't a dust up, but she acknowledges the fact that, like, there's a lot

to say, I don't think I should say anything now. Right. But she acknowledges the fact that, like, thank you for voting for me, even though maybe a lot of you hate me. 1972 is Session Littlefeather. 1974 is

hearts and minds. And then Julia and Vanessa Redgrave is 1977, I think. So, like, The 70s were hopping with this kind of stuff at the Oscars, which is, it's amazing that you go that far, and now Jonathan Glazer making a, what many people, like Kirsten Dunst's statement was pretty much sort of said, it's just like, yeah, he said that genocide isn't good. Like, I kind of feel like it's as simple as that. And to make a statement that uncontroversial, have it become quite so controversial. It's like, we've really, we've really come, regressed a long way from, I chuckle, lest I scream, right? But, yeah, yeah, so.

What a time. Again, what a time. And it just is so difficult to reconcile this film being of that time. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. A few other things about this Oscars, I love, first of all, sort of similar to some of the previous Oscar ceremonies, you're still getting a lot of no shows, especially in the acting categories. A lot of people who still just like don't feel the need to show up. Puccino's not there. De Niro, who wins for supporting actor for Godfather 2 is not there. Obviously, Dustin Hoffman wasn't there. Everybody, I will say, everybody in Best Act, was there except for the person who wins, which is Ellen Burstyn. This is something we did talk about in the last episode, and Ellen Burstyn, she was in a play on Broadway. Had it worked into her contract that she could go to the Oscars, basically at the

last minute she decides, I'm not going, they're not going to give it to me anyway, and she doesn't go and she wins. And Marty accepts her Oscar for her, which is so good, too, because he's like, and I think she would tell me to, does he say, I think she would tell me to thank myself, or she did tell me to thank myself. She told me, she said, she told me to thank myself. But so the other, the, reading the reactions of the other people's, so she's nominated against Fay Dunaway in Chinatown, Valerie Perrine in, uh, Lenny, Lenny, Jenna Rollins in a woman under the influence, who did win the Golden Globe. And Diane Carroll for Claudine.

I just recently saw Claudine, so I'm in a very Claudine place right now. Like, I think Diane Carroll is so good in that movie. Claudein, which I do have to say, to me, this, like, there is an actual, I think it's, is it called the Emerald Forest or something, the first actual screener that was sent out to Oscars? Claudein basically functions as the first kind of. screener because the first screener campaign the movie didn't do well at the box office so what do they do do to try to make this Oscar nomination happen and won for James Earl Jones they broadcast it on

LATV yeah I mean I mean they're both incredible um but they specifically advertise the broadcasting of it as you can enjoy an academy screening in your own home so really ever which is so smart Fucking cool. Yeah. I love that. This best actress lineup is incredible. Do you agree with me? Claudeine is proto-Croclan a little bit?

Kind of. I thought of you because I know how much you love Crooklyn. You know I love Brooklyn. It's a little Crooklyn vibes. Just sort of like the, I especially thought of it with how sort of like, the kids are always sort of all around and sort of, you know, she's trying to get them out of her hair. then like, but everybody's like got something to say about something and, um, real free to sort of like, uh, to, to yell at poor Claudine. Um, no, I love that movie. This is a great lineup though. And it sort of felt like everybody, maybe the best, best actress lineup ever.

Certainly, Faye done away by the looks on her face thought she was going to win and she was not happy. Sorry, Faye. I think also we'll get into it when she, when she does win. I think Jenna Rollins also thought she was going to win and she's a little bit more, it's tougher to read her face. Diane Carroll is like surprised and kind of like delighted. I think Diane Carroll either knew she wasn't going to win or is just like really good at being happy for other people because she's like, oh, wow. And I don't really remember what Valerie Perrin's reaction was. The other category that we have talked about before on this podcast, but I want to talk about again. Maybe we've never talked about another Oscar speech more.

Ingrid Bergman wins for supporting actress for Murder on the Orient Express, her third Oscar. She had already won for Anastasia and Gaslight, yes? Yes. So she's in Murder on the Orrin Express. She's not really favored to win. She's up against Valentina Cortezza for Day for Night, which I think she had won. No, the Golden Globe was like, right, nobody except for. for Diane Ladd for Alice doesn't live her anymore,

was nominated for both the Globe and the Academy Award. Karen Black won the Globe for the Great Gatsby, which just... Oh, Great Gatsby. Going back to previous themes of it's hard for us to do the 70s, and we're partly doing this to talk about how difficult it is for us to do decades like this, because movies that would most fit our rubric won Oscars. Yeah, like is Great Gatsby out of me? Kind of flopped through the Oscars, but still won, like, multiple Crafts Awards.

This is still the era of, like, movie grosses were them being booked into theaters. And the Great Gatsby, they had to return booking fees because it was such a big disappointment. Like, people just didn't show because the movie wasn't good. It got all of this bad press. It wins the costume Oscar, even though New York Magazine ran this whole piece and, like, said, You could buy this hat at Bloomingdale's, like, making fun of the movie. So the thing with Day for Night, which is a Truffaut movie, is it had been the foreign language film nominee the year before.

And so the vagaries of the rules of the Oscars were you could be presented for nomination by your country, even if you hadn't opened in the United States. But if you then subsequently opened in the United States, you would be as eligible as any other movie that had opened the United States the subsequent year. So Day for Night gets nominated in essentially two separate years in different categories. Madeline Khan's nominated for Blazing Saddles. She's the only one I think of this lineup who isn't there. Diane Ladd for Alice doesn't live here anymore, who I think thought she was going to win because she was pissed when she didn't win. She's so goddamn good. She's so mad. Talia Shire

for the Godfather Part 2 and then, as we said, Ingrid Bergman. So Bergman wins. She goes up, collects her Oscar, and she says, the first thing she says is, it's always nice to win an Oscar. It's always very nice to get an Oscar. It's always very nice to get an Oscar, which is so funny. And then she sort of like talks about how odd it is that, you know,

day for night, which, you know, I thought was such a great movie and was given Best Picture last year. She means best foreign language picture. And I thought that the best performance was Valentino Corteza, who plays an actress, and she,

performed, you know, we all know that feeling of being on set the way she is in that movie and she says essentially, I'm so sorry, Valentin, I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to win. And Valentina Cortez at this entire time, when they read her name for the nomination, when Bergman's talking to her, every cut back to her, she's literally, she's so enthusiastic, she's like, brava, bravo, bravo.

She's having the time of her goddamn life in this whole thing. She's just, like, living it up. It's so great. I want to sit next to her. If I could, like, transport myself and just, like, the seat next to her for this Oscar. She just looks like she's having a blast. So that's super cool. Do we know the open bar policy on the, on this year's Academy Awards?

Yeah. This was a big year, I feel like, for people who thought they were going to win, who didn't win, because I also feel like a lot of people assumed Fred Astaire was going to win by some. supporting actor for the Towering Inferno, because he was obviously Fred Astaire. He was this legend. And he would look, he was very, he was a good sport about losing to De Niro from his reaction shot, I thought. Um, Copela's there to accept for him. And he's like, I'm glad one of my boys won. Because he's, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And he sort of calls a shot where he's like, I think this guy is going to be somebody will remember, like, we'll be talking about for a very long time De Niro, and it's just like, well, yes.

So good call there, Francis. Yeah, excellent work. This is after Mean Streets, right? Yes. This is the year after Mean Streets. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm imagining that momentum was good for him. Yeah.

Is this the only time that three actors from the same movie have been nominated at the same time? Probably not. Well, it happened for the Godfather, I believe, two years earlier. Because it was Pacino, Duval, and James Kahn were all. nominated, supporting actor, and Brando won in lead. So, but I think those are the only two times, I don't quote me on that, but definitely it's, you know, I wouldn't trade any of those three Godfather Part 2 supporting actor nominations for the moon, but it's still just so heartbreaking that John Cazal was not

nominated. I know. I know. It just feels insane. It's just, you look, you look back on it and you're like, what happened there? Well, it's like the Michael V. Gazzo and the Lee Strasbourg nominations are just like, they feel like Hail Mary nominations. Those are like the performances that like in a movie like that we always talk about, but they don't get Oscar nominated. Especially because like those guys weren't movie stars. I mean, Lee Strasberg is like legend of acting, but wasn't, you know, in movies to that degree. But like. That's like me being like, you know who should have been nominated. for Lincoln is James Spader. Except it actually happened, right?

You know what I mean? I was going to say, which one of these is are Andrea Reisbrough? Yeah, who was in business for themselves that year? Well, Jeff Bridges apparently had a bunch of ads and variety. It's so interesting going back and doing even just like research and Inside Oscar because, like, running ads in the trades, like, what was the movie?

Oh, it was Ryan's daughter that we were talking about that it was seen as just like ungainly that they ran 20 ads. And now it's like... Like, Melissa Leo... Like, didn't Melissa Leo get a ton of shit as well? I remember her, like, ads for the fighter. Yeah.

Yeah. What's your name? Anne Dowd, like, was calling people left and right when she was in compliance and... But, like, ads then, we're just like, here's this performance in this movie, you know, like standard stuff we would see now. It's not like he was doing the, or like they were doing it for Ryan's daughter, the whole Melissa Leo awkward consider thing, you know. I think one of the things you get the sense of with the Dustin Hoffman stuff and the George C. Scott stuff is there was much more of a sense, and it's this very sort of like old school sense of like it is beneath us to.

ask for approval in this way. It is un, you know, it's gauche. It's not, it's impolitic, right, to do this. And I think over time, we've just sort of lost that sense of, there's a shamelessness to it. And generally, I sometimes, the thing I have said a lot in private when I am sharing tweets with other people is bring back.

shame. I was just like, just bring back a little bit of shame. We shouldn't be ashamed of all the things we used to be ashamed about, but like maybe let's bring back some shame. I don't mind the shamelessness in awards campaigning because ultimately it's awards campaigning and like, who cares? I like it when somebody wants to win an Oscar because like I would also like to win an Oscar if I was in that position. What are we going to do shit on Dave? I enjoy Randolph because she's happy to win an Oscar. No, we love her. Right. I feel like, but I think there was definitely a sense back then of aren't you embarrassed for yourself? There was that Glenda Jackson quote from 73

where she talks about, like, I can't be in a room with that much naked need for approval. And it's just like, oh, okay. Yeah, but I feel like you're in an industry that is built on that. Right? It's just, it's a funny disconnect to be like, I'm going to do all this, but the award ceremony is where I draw the line.

Right, right. But I also wonder if that was a 70s thing, too, of, because you look at, like, obviously, like, your Joan Crawford, Betty Davis stuff, like, people were definitely openly campaigning and clamoring for awards back then. But I think there was the 70s thing, these people who came up through the theater and the actor studio, and there was the sense of this, like, the sacred craft, right? And it's a little self-serious, of course. but it's also probably what gives you this generation of like intimidatingly huge talents in this very sort of specific way. So it's like, you know, you give some, you take some. I'm not going to begrudge, you know, Robert De Niro

feeling like he's, you know, got to maintain his integrity by not going to the Oscars. But also I'm kind of glad that things evolved too, because, you know, we don't need to take ourselves quite so seriously. Speaking of people, oh, go ahead. All I was going to say is, like, who didn't attend? Chino, De Niro, Dustin Hoffman. Well, this is where I was going. In Best Actor, the only two people who showed are Art Carney and Nicholson.

And speaking of people who thought they were going to win, it's Nicholson. Which, Chinatown does go into this ceremony with as many nominations as Godfellon. Father part too. And it had won the Golden Globe. Yeah. Yes. And it walks away with just screenplay? Yeah, I think so. The original screenplay, yeah. You know what? Nicholson... More than most of my boy, Marty Scorsese's movies. So, you know what? Jazz. There you go. Deal with it. Nicholson shows up on the red carpet wearing a white beret and with Angelica Houston on his arm who does not get, like, they have the the announcer, who is, to be fair, like land speed record whipping through the names, because

this montage goes quick, where they're like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom ceremony. But it's just like, and so she's trying to like call out these people's names. But Nicholson gets name checked and Angelica Houston doesn't. I think because she probably wasn't, hadn't been in much of anything by this point, right? Was that, do we feel like, am I talking out of my ass? So she was a model at this point, though, I think. Sure. Yeah.

That's true. But I did notice the beret. Looking at pictures from her, looking at pictures of her from back then, I'm like, who will give us the biopic starring Bella Hadid? Oh, my God. There we go. That's her Oscar. I'm trying to go through.

Oh, I mentioned this in our episode when we talked with David about Don't Look Now, but they give the honorary Oscar to Jean Renoir, who is not there. And my feeling is, if it's an honorary Oscar, you got to be there, or else we're skipping it. We're skipping it for this year. Well, but sometimes they do give honorary Oscars to people who are so old and possibly not well that, you know, what are you going to do? But he didn't die for like several more years. Sure. I checked.

Speaking of the front page, also awarded an honorary Oscar that year, Howard Hawks. Oh, yes. That's true. Yes. Oh, so the end of this ceremony, end of the Oscars after Best Pictures handed out and whatever, the four hosts, Hope, Sinatra, McLean, Sammy, all get out there and they perform That's Entertainment. And I just want to know, in the history of Oscar, I want to, like, go through and tally up how many repetitions of That's Entertainment and there's no business like show business. sort of happened throughout the years, because I feel like those two songs, just like the old standbys, it's just... What this new standby needs to be is Liza's candor and Eb Oscar song from the 73 ceremony, and they need to be performed by someone who has lost Anne won an Oscar.

Emma Stone, you are on notice. Your time is now. You will be performing this. You will be performing your emotions when you lost the Oscar for Birdman. and then you will have to perform your emotions for when you won for La La Land. Wait, so, Roxanna, I want to go back to the front page for a second because I want to, I want to read you the cast for the 2016 Broadway revival of the front page. Okay.

And I want to get your reactions sort of in real time. So among the people who played the reporters, okay, well, so in the Walter Matho role, in the editor, you got Nathan, Lane. In the Jack Lemon role of the hot shot reporter, John Slattery. As reporters among them,

I'm just, Chris, you read Roxanna's facial expressions because people can. I'll be audio commentary. Am I Fred Willard or am I the other guy? No, well, the masters are happening right now. I'll be doing whispering. I'm doing whispering. Thank you.

right now. Okay, reporters played by variously Dylan Baker, Christopher McDonald nodding, nodding approval.

Robert Morris. Conceivable, yes. Jefferson Mays as the fancy pants gay guy. Okay. Sherry Renee Scott as Molly Malloy,

the sex worker. Hmm. John was a beast intrigue. Okay. And then in the role of Earl, who hides beneath the roll top, John Magarro. Oh. That's hoties only.

Hoties only. Hot is only. Truly hot. Give me a little hot, weird man. That's what I want. That's what I want. That's on his business card. A little hot weird man, John McGarrow.

Yeah. I want to be unsettled, but also intrigued. You know who would have been great on homicide life on the street is John McGarrow. He would have been so good. Just a weird little freak energy. That's what I want. You know who I also 100% could have seen in that role, although I don't think he does theater. Elijah Wood, he also has weird little freak energy.

Oh, I love. I feel I'm very much of the mind. He's like 5'5. He's just a little, a little petite man. Yeah. I want Elijah Wood to be in so many more things. I was really hoping I was kind of bummed that his yellow jackets arc didn't pop as much. Like there was a lot of like backlash yellow jackets buzz this second season, which is like I was really hoping that we would be able to launch Elijah Wood back into being in a lot of things.

Because I think he's so, there's a lot of potential there. It's so frustrating because I got like through episode five or six or something for my review. And I was like, okay, this is, this is pretty good. And then the last four are just like, oh, you just, there goes all the goodwill that you had built up for me. This was me reviewing the premiere episode of the second season of Loki and being like, this is it. This is the show that I want. They're out of continuity. They're doing their own thing.

Bub, boom. And I was such a rave because I only got the one episode. And then the rest of the season just dismantled everything that I liked about it, got stuck in this whole cul-de-sac of a plot. and ultimately just, like, sputtered into this nonsensical finale, and I was so mad that I had praised it so much for that first episode. But cul-de-sac of a plot is exactly what happens with Adult Lottie. There's such an emphasis in season two on Adult Lottie, who I do not think was cast well, and who I do not think was, like, written particularly sensibly. No. Why are we meeting her to, like, get a whole lot of nothing like that? Yeah.

Especially when you're, like, and then they cast that sort of. of like younger girl in the cult to take all of Juliette Lewis's attention. And it's like, well, that's what you do if you don't get Lottie is you've got to like have this like surrogate character. But like you have Lottie there. Just like, yeah, I know. That was disappointing. It sort of feels like a show where I'm like, I think you all like each other and you get along. And I do. I really accept that they're like all friend. But I'll feel it. There must be something going on. Like, I'm a little curious about some stuff that's happening. Oh, fascinating. To go back to front page, I'm so intrigued by the Nathan Lane John

Slattery combo, but I'm also like, isn't Slatery kind of too old? Sort of? I agree. I agree. I agree. Again, you know what? If this man was like, would you like to kiss? I would say yes. Like, I'm not, you know, I think he's great. The whole idea is that Hildy is getting married. And, like, I understand that he's not, like, in his 20s getting married. He's had a career by this point. He's finally settling down. But it's not like John Slattery finally settling down.

And, you know. Yeah. But, but again, but however, however, we have seen John Slattery play a character like this in Madman. I think that's probably goes into the cast. Uh, Spotlight, hello. Yeah. Well, with Mad Men, I meant, like, the unlikely late stage marriage. Marriage.

Yeah. Where it's like, he, you know, like, he leaves for, God, I don't even remember her name anymore, but the secretary, sorry to her. Mona? No. No, Mona's the first wife, who he's, like, still friends with. Right. Right. They all had weird little 60s names.

Yeah. And Mona is the first wife. And real life is George Clooney's ex-wife, right? Ex-wife, Talia Balsam. Yep. Love it. And who is John Slattery's, I believe, real-life what? Yeah.

Yes, his real wife, yes. Because when they cameoed, do you remember, do you watch Girls Five Eva? Yes, of course. Remember when they cameoed in the New York Lonely Boy episode where they had their own New York Lonely Boy and they were essentially being like, he'll be all right. Like, just like our kid. It's great. It's so good.

Yes. John Slahery popping up in random stuff is great. When he shows up in what we do in the shadows, great. I had a very disappointing 15 years in New York and when it came to seeing celebrities out in the wild. I was the only person to live in Brooklyn for any length of time and never see Maggie Gillen Hall and Peter Sarsgaard just sort of like out and about. How did that happen? I don't know. You got to be working hard.

Those two are just like waiting behind like stoops to jump out at people. My conclusion is that like I think I just am not as observant as I should. should be. And I'm just sort of like, but I will say, and the one times that I run into celebrities, it is when I almost knock them over. So like it is, that probably makes a lot of sense. I almost, do you ever watch the, the queerest folk on Showtime, uh, that show? You know, the, the real Twinky one who, um, the whole plot with him is that like he's a twink and, and, uh, he has sex with the, the, um, older 20-something guy and like the, you know, you could have, if you didn't say queer as folk we could have guessed

100 shows because anytime there's a twink, that's their whole plot. That's their whole plot. That's it. But you know who I'm talking about. Randy Harrison. Randy Harrison is the guy's name. I almost, I was at Bam for a Into the Woods sort of live reading with the original cast. And so there's the stairs that you go up to Bam and people are sort of like milling around out front because it was too really, really to go in. And I was waiting for my friend to be there And I sort of like, I was talking to somebody, and I turned around to go walk the other way.

And I almost ran right into Randy Harrison. And you know how big I am. And you know how small Randy Harrison is. And if I had made contact with him, he would have flown across Fort Green, like, on to the BQE. It would have been like, it would, he wouldn't have been able to sustain the, the, the impact. And so, Joe, you're literally describing this, like, he is the key. bridge and you are the ship. And I refuse that so fully. That is too self, too self deprecating even for you. The imagery is not, you're not wrong, though. But so when I saw John Slattery,

the point of which I saw I'm in Washington Square Park, riding a bicycle and like just right in front of me. And it's like, couldn't have missed him. So like, that's how I see celebrities in New York. So here's one of the few celebrities that I saw sort of out in the wild in New York. On a bike in Washington Square Park, so I'll always remember that. Bless you. Bless you, John. You kept it pretty tight, you know? Yeah, exactly.

Do we have any final stray thoughts about either the front page or the 1974 Oscars? I don't think I have stray thoughts so much as this has really inspired me to go back and, like, watch those clips and get a sense of, like, how. the politicization of the Oscars was changing. Like, that's so fascinating to me. Because, again, we don't need to talk about, like, the content of Glazer. Everyone acting, like, what he said or did was just this, like, shocking, ruining the tone of the Oscars, exhausting thing. Coppola had a quote this ceremony about the hearts and minds speech

that goes straight back to the Glazer. thing is he said the academy in voting for the picture was sanctioning the message of that picture, which was in spirit of Mr. Schneider's remarks. So it's like, that's Glazer right there. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So I think that's, I mean, that's just my personal stray thought. I don't know what other stray thoughts I have about the front page aside from, like, I wish that it, I wonder if I would like it more, if I feel like it looked better. or did something different visually or just felt bigger. The movie also just feels small.

And I think that was part of what kept me from really, like, getting on its wavelength. You're right about it visually, although I will say, and now I now can't remember. Oh, it was on Netflix, of course, because we had to watch it before it got off of Netflix. The version that was streaming on Netflix, and maybe this is just me, like, backwards, humble bragging that I got a nice new TV. I thought the transfer was really good for being a kind of like, and maybe it's because also that like all the trailers that exist look like they are being shown to you through like a pile of gravel that they just dumped on it or whatever. But the transfer that was on Netflix was very, like looked very good for any kind of 70s movie. To combat that it's like one of three movies on Netflix. that's older than 1985 and that's what they get like yeah well also that now on well this is

April so this might change again but it's now on prime because I've rewatched it on prime they do kind of yeah I do like how at the very least movies can hopscotch around I I of course despair I have gotten to the point where I am buying myself a new 4K every week just to sort of be like I want to like I'm like Noah with the Ark and just like two of every filmmaker to start and then we'll fill in from there. I've got to save all this film, all this physical media because it's all, oh, God. They're going to stop selling DVDs, you guys. They're going to stop selling Blu-rays. It's so crazy to me because they do these special releases and they sell out.

So I'm like, clearly, clearly we are doing something. Like, we're doing our best. Once again. Corners doing our best. They've stopped enjoying money. They just don't like to make money anymore. That's the only conclusion I can come up with. Money frightens them.

My last stray thought, we talked about Ellen Burstyn not attending despite her win for the great Alice doesn't live here anymore. Yes, great movie. Who delivered, who hand delivered her Oscar to her backstage at her theater? Who? None other. than Lemon and Mathau

Get out of here Oh And Ellen was like Well I don't really know if this changes anything I don't feel any different And what does Walter Mathau say to her Other than this A very Mathau quote

Put it this way Ellen When you die The newspaper will say The Academy Award winning actress Ellen Burstyn died today I mean He is right He's not wrong. That's kind of why we love Walter Mathau even though he's a monster.

Yeah. You know, like he's not wrong. He's not wrong. And all good health and longevity to Ellen Burstyn, who is still kicking it. A legend. Yes. Still kicking it. Joe, let's move into the IMDB game.

Why don't you explain the IMDB game to our listeners? Why don't I do that? All right. The IMDB game is what we do every week here on this head, Oscar Buzz. Let me scroll down to the spiel because I somehow haven't internalized it after 300-something goddamn episodes. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, Chris, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

If that's not enough, it just becomes a serious free for all of hints. All right, Roxanna as our guest, you get the choice of guessing first or last, and then who you are going to offer a name to and guess from. Oh, my God, so much pressure. I will go last. All right. So you will start then by offering up a name for someone to guess. Okay.

But you have to pick who. is guessing. I will pick you, Chris. All right. So then Chris will quiz me and I will quiz Roxanna. Okay, good. Remind me how the game.

Remind me how the game works. I tell you my name and then you pick the, or you try to recognize the top four. If I get too wrong, you give me the remaining years. Okay. So the name that I am giving you of this actor is someone we have talked about

and that person is Dustin Hoffman Nice Mr. Dustin Hoffman Uh Tootsie Yeah Tootsy, yes

Rain Man Yes Hmm Do I think his other win For Kramer versus Kramer is there I'm going to say yes Yes If I get this next one, this will be the second perfect score, maybe more, since we're recording out of order, that we've had in the mini-series.

Because, Joe, who did you get? Julie Andrews? God, this was only two days ago, Chris. How am I possibly expected to remember? Anyway. I'm going to say the graduate. No. Damn it.

So close. Mm-hmm. Okay. But then I don't think... What if it's like Mr. McGorium's Wonder Emporium? How rotted would the universe be if that was the case? Um... Which one do I want to guess then?

It's not going to be... I just... I don't think it's any of the other Oscar nomination. Like, it's not going to be Lenny, which, like, I don't think we even said the word Lenny on this episode. Lenny's a fine biopic. It's okay. The, I'm just, do I just want to throw out a year? I'm going to say Lenny, just to get my year.

No. Yeah. All right. Your year is 1969. Nice. well done joe um oh midnight cowboy yeah there you yeah best picture winner i should have thought it's insane to me that he was walking is it not insane that all the president's men is not on this kind of yes like as a known for like that's crazy to me yeah also no hook what are what are we

doing millennials what are we doing all these people reclaiming hook I know. We claim it on the IMDB, guys. It's me. I will suddenly learn how to code, and I will figure out a way to put it on Glenn Close's known for. Put it on Bob Hoskins known for. We'll do one on Charlie Korsmo at some point. Hook, wait, that would be hook, Dick Tracy, what about Bob and something? Can't hardly wait. that's got to be his wait i want to look up and see if that's true what if i got it he is in can't

hardly wait he's the he's the guy can't feel my legs guy he's the nerd who drinks for the first time i love that on charlie corsomo all right he's like sort of like like tether to elijah wood a little bit right like kind oh i could see that i could see that all right hook is definitely one of them hook dick tracy what about bob can't hardly wait who got it Good job. Perfect school, but it doesn't count because... It doesn't count. All right. Chris, who do you got for me? For you, I pulled someone who was nominated along with both Lemon and Mathau at the Golden Globes.

I am talking about nominated for the longest yard, Mr. Bert Reynolds. Dang. Bert Reynolds, a figure in many of these Oscars Santa Romani's we've already talked about. It's true. It's true, although not nominated. did. Bert Reynolds hosting the Oscars. What is that even like today? Is that like, that's not even like Ryan Reynolds. That's like. No. Who's the Bert Reynolds of today? Maybe I just don't like Bert Reynolds. Like, did you watch the documentary? There's a Bert Reynolds documentary. Yeah. Oh, that's right, because it was on, I had to do it for work and that was sort of like there was something on the far reaches of television I had to watch. Whatever. It may be both. like like him more and less at the same time so that was interesting that seems right yeah um okay

bert reynolds i'm gonna say probably deliverance no fuck what a terrible start well now i got a hope that it's again again what a shock like what is happening here especially because i feel like deliverance is on like john voight's known for i told you when we got on the call. I was like, I found something crazy. Which makes me feel like it's not going to be boogie nights, but I still have to guess boogie nights. So I'm going to say. Boogie Nights is correct. Okay. Okay. Smoky and the Bandit. Correct. Okay. We're maintaining the longest yard. Incorrect. So you're getting your years. Your years are 1981 and 1996.

Is 96 striptees? Strip T's is on Bert Reynolds. for that man got fucking lubed up in that movie in a way that was unbecoming a man of his age and stature is what I will say and then one year later they nominated him for an Oscar for a movie he disowned he disowned boogie nights and not strip tees I know I know I know all right 81 see the problem with Bert Reynolds is I have absolutely no sense of when things in his career happened I don't know Names, yeah. I don't know when the fucking playgirl centerfold happened for him. I don't know when, you know, he married Lonnie Anderson. I'm at C. Well, this is a movie that, much like Smokey and the Bandit, did start a franchise.

Is it the Cannonball Run? It is the Cannonball Run. Okay, okay. That quiz got me there because I was going to guess like Gator or something like that. But, okay. Cannonball Run. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, Roxanna, for you. I'm full of so much fear. It's such a difficult game.

No, don't be full of fear. I'm so afraid. One of the people who we weirdly didn't talk about at all who was nominated at the 74 Oscars was nominated in the best supporting actor category for a film that I have never seen called Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, which was Michael Chimino movie starring Clint Eastwood, that. I genuinely have no idea what it's about, but it looks... I'm pretty sure that it has a lot of accusations of homophobia against it, specifically for Reynolds's performance. It's a crime comedy, so for Eastwood's performance, I think you mean, but yeah. No, for Jeff Bridges, because I believe Jeff Bridges is in Dragon. Oh, no. Oh, no. Let me lift this up while we get into it. Anyway, so Jeff Bridges was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for this,

and that's how I'm giving you to guess the known for. Roxanna is Jeff Bridges. No television, no voiceover. Okay. I mean, I will say Lobowski. Correct. Okay. Okay.

I want to say Pran? Not Tron. Okay. You know, once again, what is there, like, what is there to even say? I love that that's the most Ruxana answer possible, so I'm glad that you gave it. I was like, not Trump. Let me think about Garrett Headland for a second.

What I think about Tron. Tron Legacy, Country Strong, okay, out of gear. The one with Maggie, Crazy Heart? Crazy Heart, where he won is Oscar, correct? You got two of four. I'm guessing the other Cohen, True Grit. Correct, true grit. Three of four with only one strike.

The Jeff Bridges and Drag photo that I just dropped in the chat. Oh, dear. Well, I need to, yeah, I need to look at that. Yeah. That's important to me. Oh, that's, okay. You know. Oh, yeah.

People call this movie homophobic for... That's unfortunate. I don't know if I could give you another Jeff Bridges movie. Like, my brain is, like, who even is Jeff Bridges outside of these movies that I know in Rockingman's? I'll give you your year early. Your year is 1984. It was one of the movies he was nominated for an Oscar for. It seems from this perspective, a very un-Jep Bridges-like role.

I will say, though, Your guess of Tron is probably closer to the vibe than, like, a True Grit or a Blabowski or a Crazy Heart. Very famous and beloved genre director. Yes. I am remembering, like, the poster for this movie, and I am not remembering the name of this movie. So you should just tell me the name of this movie, Joe, as I accept defeat. It has the same name as a David Bowie song. Oh, yeah, that was a good point.

That was featured prominently in the Life Aquatic. Oh, it was. The movie is Starman. It is John Carpenter's Starman, which he is on the poster cradling a glowing little object from space. Because he is in fact And I have not seen the movie Like at all I've definitely not seen the movie

It's one of those movies with like Three paragraphs of tagline Which says He has traveled from a galaxy Far Beyond Our Own He is 100,000 years ahead of us He has powers we cannot comprehend And he is about to face the one force in the universe

He is yet to conquer What is that force in the universe? Love? That's right, it's love. It is love. Oh, my God. That's terrible. I am, I personally am embarrassed that I did not remember, because, like, your brain goes blank, right?

And that I did not remember Hell or High Water, in which I think is very good. Oscar nomination, very good. What I love very much? What's other recent bridges? The old man. Everybody's parents love watching the old man on Apple. That's true. Old Man is not on Apple.

Old Man is Prime, right? No. Old Man is FX on Hulu. Oh, okay. In a real swir. I feel like the old man and slow horses both premiered around the same time. And I remember thinking of both of them.

I'm like, why would you call your television shows these? There's 8 billion shows to choose from. And you're going to give your movies titles that make me feel like I'm going to be taking a nice warm nap in a bowl of oatmeal. And instead, I am now a season and a half into slow horses. And I am hootin and hollering. I am having a real good time. You love it.

You love that show. It's so funny, first of all. They haven't mentioned that slow horses is real funny. Second of all, Jack Loudon. I mean. Jack Lownd is very hot, 100%. Mr. Sir Sharonin. I just think it's very funny.

made first. In my mind, I imagine Joe, reading every review and being like, this one doesn't mention that it's funny either. What are these people even doing? I don't understand it. Gary Oldman is farting his way through this show literally, and nobody mentions. I hate Gary Oldman. So that's why I haven't been able to watch the show.

I get it. I do get it. Yeah. I also completely forgot that Jeff Bridges. was in bad times at the El Royale, a movie that I enjoyed. I mean, it's whatever. It is what it is.

I had my high hopes for bad times at the L.Reyal. Neither of you is surprised. I like that movie. That is true. That is true. That is true. That's a rest of it. And that, I think, is our episode.

If you want more, this had Oscar buzz. You can check us out on Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You'll also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz and on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz and also sign up for our Patreon at Patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. You're not going to want to miss the Tommy episode.

You want the full 1970s experience. Roxanna, thank you so much for coming back. We love you. This has been a joy. Me too. Thank you guys. Tell the listeners where they can find more of you. You can find me at Vulture.

You can still. find me kicking around on Twitter following the Headland and Hunnam Twitter fan account. I don't run it. Just follow it. You should too. Wait, there is a Twitter account that's Headland and Hunnam? Yes. Where do you think I get my daily photos of my guys, Joe?

We should do nothing but re-tweet that account. After my, the game that I made for Headland or Hunnam on here. Okay. All right. I'm very curious if it was born after Triple Frontier or before Triple Frontier. Yeah. Because I also found them very similarly hot. And then they were cast as brothers.

And I was like, thank God, you know. Yeah. Well, that was the premise of when I made the game. It was just like, yeah, like people sometimes don't know whether they're experiencing a headland or a Hunnam. And you got to know. You got to figure it out. What if you experienced both? I mean.

What have your experience? And Aaron Darry Laugh. Many have wondered. What have you experienced both? Yes. Joe, where can the listeners find you? You can find me experiencing both on social media at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D.

You can also find me at vulture.com. What? Doing Cinematrix every weekday, come and play our puzzles. And I don't know what else has been announced dead in terms of what I've been doing at Vulture, so I'll maybe save that from once it is. But like, I'm going to be hanging at Vulture and I'm going to be doing my thing and it's going to be very fun. Roxanna and I high-fiving in the Slack every day.

It's going to be fun. We're figuring out a way to bring in Headland and Hunnam to hang out just with us. We'll invite Chris. It's going to be great. Random roles where we both interview Headland and Hunnam. Make it happen. Yeah. Yeah.

You can find me on Twitter and Letterbox at Christy. file. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Meevius for their technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for his theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So please open that credenza. Let your Austin Pendleton out to write us a nice five-star review. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back. for next week for more buzz

slash in a few days over on the Patreon. I can't remember the last time I really let my Austin Pendleton out. Sounds vulgar, but I like it. Yeah, yeah. Bye. Bye.