This Had Oscar Buzz - 291 – The Ritz (with Christina Tucker) (70s Spectacular – 1976)

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

We’re on to 1976 (go sign up for our Patreon for 1975 and our Exception episode on Tommy!) and Christina Tucker rejoins us to talk about the 70s Spectacular’s wildest movie, The Ritz. From the play by Terrence McNally, the film is a mob farce set in a bathhouse with Jack Weston as a straight man … Continue reading "291 – The Ritz (with Christina Tucker) (70s Spectacular – 1976)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh I'm gonna think I'm crazy But my brother-in-law is planning to kill me Are you picked the gay bass to hide out in?

We're three happy chappies with snappy ceraffies You'll find us beneath eyes umbrella It's nice Now you just lay back there And googie's going to charge you, how nice? We're brave and we'll say so We're bright as a face, so Who says so we're late.

As strange as it may seem, no one is going to attack you. Someone already has. Beginners luck. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is content to lie and wait under a roll-top desk. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy, and this May, all month, we're diving into the Oscar buzz of the 1970s cute disco beat and uh partridge family partridge family yes opening opening animations

that would have been fun to do like little animations character animations of all of us um we can honestly do a Brady Bunch style uh thing with the wall just like take our zoom screenshots that would be really cute actually that would be kind of cute um that would be fun or much like the poster for this movie, we can have a Hirschfeld drawing. Oh my God, the first of up this movie. I want it. If anybody wants to know what I look like via Hershfeld.

A Hershfeld poster of this particular of the Ritz would be high, high, high on my list. I am your host. Well, there is a Hershfeld poster. That's what I mean. Like, it exists, but I don't have it. Oh, I see what I'm saying. Joe wants to own it. I want to own it. I want to own it. I want to

me. I'm your host, Joe Reed, as here, here is always with my own personal Seymour Pipping, Chris File, Hello, Chris. Salute emoji. A luxury of options for what we could have chosen for the opening gags for this movie, a movie filled with gags and silliness and fars. Gags and guggs and gullies. And we had, as Chris said before we started recording, we really only had one choice.

for a guest for this episode. We do not believe in making our listeners wait or making our guests wait. So please welcome to the stage, podcaster, entertainment writer, a lady about town. Christina Tucker. It's a me. Thank you so much for the honor of being here. This was a blast. I can't wait to dig into this Bunkerino's film of y'all. Welcome back to a movie that takes place entirely in Manhattan. No, actually, a little in Cleveland, but then mostly in Manhattan. But mostly in Manhattan. You know me, I've got to stay on the East Coast.

We're doing a sex farce on the weekend of Challenger's opening. That's true. Christina and I have already gotten into Challenger's quite a bit before recording. But I do have to say. I'm still sweating. Huge droplets are falling on Chris and Joe as we see. Giant quarter-sized sweat beads are, you know, there's a ball coming at the screen.

all in New Rochelle, which I think counts as Westchester. It does. And it's emotionally Westchester. I tried to, I was writing about it, and I was like, can I just describe this as Westchester? And I looked it up, and I don't think I can. No, I was like, can I describe this as Hudson Valley? And I think no. But it's, it's in that Westchester Hudson Valley sort of like, as I'm going up the Amtrak,

there's a, there's a New Rochelle stop. I don't know that we as people necessarily claim New Rochelle, but. I don't, but I couldn't speak for all of the good old age. What's the college in Neuroschelle? Is it Vassar? Is it Ayona? Vypsey. It might be Iona.

I can never remember. There's too many colleges up there. I think you're right. Yeah, Vassar is in Poughkeepsie. I should have known that. I think it is Iona if it's in Neurochel, but yes. It just sounds. I don't know.

There's a hundred. I can't. It sounds very bougie because it is not only the first name of both the neighbor lady and Alf and also the fake movie in Seinfeld's, the erotic journey from Melanta Minz. But also, the new feels like a very kind of, I don't know, like, patrician sort of like, you know, and all the newly colonized areas of... I'm sure there's an English place of erosion. It's like, it's not as good as on Hudson.

Just throwing on Hudson on something is like... Well, that's class. It's elegance. Yes, it's Alex. Ritz on Hudson. Exactly. Exactly. Zendaya on Hudson, I would live there. I would absolutely like, yes, 100%. Live and vacation. What a movie. What a Fice O'Connor on Hudson. On Hudson.

On Hudson. On Hudson. So we are here to talk about our selection from 1976. Now, if you guys are saying, but Joe and Chris, the last episode that we have for you, is from 1974, ah-ha, ha, ha, our 1975 episode on The Who's Tommy exists on our Patreon. And if we're not going to use this as an excuse to coax you into signing up for our Patreon, then what are we even doing here? So, Chris... Slash, not have to give ourselves even more work by doing separate Patreon episodes while doing double the episodes on the main feed.

Chris, why don't you explain to our listeners why not only, the who's Tommy, but what else waits for them if they do decide to sign up for the Patreon? Listen, our Patreon, this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance for $5 a month. You're going to get two bonus episodes, $5 a month. You might say, that's the cost of a cheesy Gordita Crunch. That's the cost of a ticket to new Rochelle. That's always saying that. That is entry to the Ritz. You are correct. You can support us for the low amount of $5.00. month. What are those episodes you're going to get? The first of which is our exceptions episodes. Those are movies that basically fit that this had Oscar Buzz

rubric, but managed to score a nomination or two. As Joe mentioned for 1975, we talked about the Who's Tommy. You can go and listen to that right now, but other movies we've done include Vanilla Sky, Pleasantville, The Mirror Has Two Faces. Our listeners have chosen episodes on Molly's Game and the lovely bones. More fun movies like that. The second bonus episode is what we call an excursion, which is a deep dive into Oscar ephemera we love talking about, such as EW. Fall Movie Previews, Hollywood Reporter Roundtables. What's the excursion going to be for the 1970s? We're going to be doing 1978, and we are doing our very first commentary track on none other than the motion picture,

Eyes of Laura Mars. Christina, have I forced that movie on you yet. You have not. I'm waiting for the Combinger now. So imagine 1970s that's so Raven said in the fashion world and there's a serial killer on the loose.

I'm in harder. I'm in hardest even. Yes. Imagine fashion photography aesthetics as gang battles between models in Columbus Circle. Like I feel like there's... Easy. I watched all of Ugly Betty. I can easily do that.

Perfect. Eyes of Laura Mars is not, not an America's next top model challenge. 100%. 100% on that. Yes. Renowned fashion photographer Laura Mars. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So listeners go over to the Patreon. Sign up $5 a month. Patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Perfect. Christina, now that we have you here to talk about the 70s, talk about how you...

what your feelings are on the films of the 70s, the aesthetics of the 70s, is this something that speaks to in any way? Did you go through like a phase of like being very into like 70s retro? Obviously we're all... Did I go through a phase? Am I still currently living in that phase? There's like no way to know. I think it's interestingly enough, I think the 70s film wise are probably the decade I like have watched films from the least. I feel like I have a lot of 60s like early childhood stuff like memories of like watching 60s stuff. I think my mom was like very much pushing that energy on me. 70s feel like I just kind of missed it, which is part of the reason I wanted to do this film because I was like, I don't know a ton about 70s film and I do

want to like get into this a little deeper. But as for the aesthetics of the 70s, give me all you got of that. Give me lines of it in fact. And I'll just, I'll rail them all. Like let's go. Give me big hair. Give me disco. Give me sweat. Let's party. Please. Yeah, exactly. Well, one of the things that I like about a movie like The Ritz is, as we've been going through this series and we've been talking about the Oscars of the 70s, and obviously there's these huge, like, monumental movies in American cinema. And some of those I hadn't seen yet, so I was happy to be able to, like, finally, like, sit down and watch Nashville or finally watch, you know, Five Easy Pieces or something like that. But there's also these totemic movies,

your, you know, Jaws and all the President's Men and Network and all these sorts of of things. The movies of 1976, which we'll talk about later. Exactly. And then the Ritz sort of fits

into this sort of like underbubble of movies that were kind of just sort of silly and funny and still very much of the time.

But also like there's something that they haven't aged into this canon the way other movies have. And I wonder if an interesting project would be to, like, go through the, like, the globe nominees of the 70s, which is, like, where you would find, like, a little bit more of these, you know, little gems that don't exactly, that haven't exactly been canonized yet. And yet also really speak to the era and era in a really interesting way.

This movie, the Ritz, is so, it's inextricable of its time to the point where I saw that they tried to do a revival of it in 07. And it did not last very long. And it doesn't surprise me because I don't think you can do this show today. I think just for the fact of like you can't, you can't take the genie out of the bottle in terms of like this is a, this is a movie that was made pre-aids. And like you can't, you can't, you can't wish it away. You know what I mean? Much as you would like to. And so it's a true artifact. And it's a true artifact of like pure joy. And I love. that aspect about it. It's just silliness and farce and, you know, there are jokes about like you're going to catch, you know, VD or something like that, but like that's sort of, you know, and then you inject this sort of like, you know, mafia heterosexuality and Twitter or whatever. And it's so funny and sort of light in a way that I find. The physical comedy is so good. So good. And just like watching Rita Marino be like, yeah, I'm jumping. Many times I'm going to be jumping about. I'm just like, yes. Like, amazing. Can we bring back this kind of like, it reminded me,

honestly, of Jennifer Lawrence's nude beach fight and no hard feelings. Just like absolutely go for a girl. Like, why not? Yeah. Just the body, I mean, like, I've told multiple people this is like Popeye in a bathhouse. It's like Mafia Looney Tunes. It feels like a Sunday morning cartoon. Yeah, exactly. This is, it's, well, it's like late, late Saturday night. after after party cartoons, you know, just by the nature of its setting. But it's like, it also kind of, while also crossing the, like, the line doesn't exist. It's so far crosses the line in terms of the caricatureness of it, that it's like, the line of good taste is way in the rear view to the point that it's just like,

like Joe said, it just becomes this kind of thing of pure joy and silliness like a lunatic. Tunes-esque, you know, farce. The first time I watched it, I was like, it's maybe not farcical enough. And now re-watching it for this, I was like, that's very stupid. I was like, this is like beyond. How much more farce could it be? I don't know. The things we've done with tiny beds in this movie alone.

Oh, by the time you've got like the third or fourth different shot of like different people hiding under a bed for other different people. It's so good. Mistaken identities. The tiny beds all with posters of actors. I don't know why everybody's fucking under posters for Marilyn Monroe and, like, May West and all of this. So sexy to just like have a dorm room poster of Marilyn Monroe.

Yeah, gay guys just have like 25 rooms from like 2004 college dorm posters. They've got the Got Milk ad. They need something to talk about, I guess, in between Trist. But I also thought the first time I saw this, I thought of this very strongly, but also, again, this could have been a great television show, a great 70s sitcom of just like, cheers, but at a gay bathhouse. It's just sort of just like, like, center it on the guy at the door or whatever. All the other ones are the regulars. Hey, Norm, you know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing.

It's perfect. I mean, after he's there whenever she comes back on tour. Yeah. Like he was just samming about. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Um, you mentioned the revival, though, which the revival had Rosie Perez, which I'm just like, I know. Give that person a raise, whoever decided that it had to be her. It's a very good idea. And like, yeah, this is kind of a weird, not lost to time, because like people know of the Ritz. And I think this was actually Terrence McNally's first big hit. You know, it, it, I'm glad. I'm glad. glad that you kind of positioned it the way that you did, Joe, because it is kind of the thing that it arrived at the very last minute that it kind of could have to still be allowed to be funny. And there is something about it that, you know, through tragedy, we effectively lost about how this movie lands. And I think now we're at the place where there's something kind of sweet about it, you know, because I think the other thing that You know, you're forced into making this into a period piece because, like, do bathhouses exist anymore?

And, like, would they be frequented to the extent that they kind of have to to make the Ritz work? They certainly don't exist in this form anymore, right? In this sort of, you know. Yeah, the kind of combination hotel. In this sort of vastness, this idea that you could just sort of, like, walk in through this door. And you are all of a sudden through into, you know, this great sort of cavernous. Like a Batman. hotel. They're going to be doing a production of like Bugsie Malone in there. Yep.

Yeah. It did have a like a Batman energy to it in some way. Because the, you know, the check-in window looks like it's like a taxi dispatch, right? Like it has that kind of aesthetic to it with the with the plexiglass and he's got the, you know, the clanging door that he sort of hits and whatever. And then throughout the movie, you'll hear him sort of like make announcements about like please everybody take a shower before you go into the steam room and like this whole kind of thing and um kicking people out of their rooms yeah or just like you know the sign up for a ritz softball team is you know in in this area if you want to like this whole kind of thing and it feels very much like there's a community of like people you know sometimes people are

strangers but sometimes people are sort of known and you know what's the one guy who's like make sure you invite Jerry, but don't invite Carl or whatever, and to the, to the orgy on the third floor, that kind of thing. And it's just very much like the day to day of clandestine to some degree sex, right? You know what I mean? Like clandestine unfettered, you know, down low sort of sex. But even within that, you have people who are, you know, like clandestine, unfettered, you know, down low sort of sex. But even within that, you have people who, you have self-cultures. The one guy who, like, shades F. Murray Abraham coming off of the elevator, we're like, you're the kind of person who makes us afraid to be on subways. And it's just like, so, oh, the butches are going to be, are going to be mean to the sissies and that kind of thing. And there's just, there's a lot of layers to it. In the middle of this farce where, like, Jerry Stiller has a, you know, is packing heat.

And Treat Williams has a mini-mouse voice and all this sort of stuff. It's great. I mean, one of my largest notes was Tree Williams, how did you do this voice for this long? This is great. Honest to God. Like, it's worth, it's worth some kind of recognition because he commits. It really is committing. But I was similarly thinking to like watching all of the scenes, you know, kind of playing out in the background. And like, I was like, you know, these little details of like the kind of, you know, little community things of like, don't invite that guy. He's a bummer. Like, this guy never comes at the steam room. I was like, this is weirdly, you know, observant and like well observed of like those kinds of dynamics with

community, especially gay community. I was like, yeah, this does ring true to me in a way that I was kind of surprised to find while, you know, again, Jerry Stiller's rolling around calling everybody fairies. Right. Right. Oh, my God. Like the different, you could do an actual supercut of the different variations on gay slurs getting thrown around in here and who's... I forgot that he was just going to say him. I was like, oh, right. We're going to say him. Let's rock. The other thing is almost all of the main cast of this were in, because the stage show was only like, the year before. And so Rita Moreno, Jerry Stiller, Jack

Weston, F. Marie Abraham, were all in the original stage show, Paul B. Price also, who played Claude. The chubby chaser, Claude, who's delightful. Could not be wearing more clothes in the baths. God, it is true. It is true. And packing

like just meals on meals on meals that he's going to throw up people. I just was like, isn't everything so damp, sir? I was a jar of mayonnaise. There has got to be a layer of dew on that Hershey bar that he's trying to hand, like, to hand Gaetano, yeah. There is an upsetting amount of food available in this bathhouse, which, like, to add to what you guys were saying, yes, there is all of these, like, microcosms of community there,

but it's all, like, the Ritz is also kind of quaint in a way. They had, like, a fucking food court. They had a coffee shop. Like, this is as much a nursing home, like, people are there, It was sort of like, chilling out. I love that. Yeah, it was like a combination nursing home sandals cruising spot. I was like, what is this? Like everything, there's like, you know, organized hours for everyone. We had summer camp, like what's happening. Well, and this is obviously based on places like the continental baths or whatever, which is where like Bat Midler came about. And Barry Manilow. That kind of a thing. So like these places absolutely did exist. Like they're, you know, but it is a very much a time port. into a time. But I didn't want to mention people on the stage show who were not in the movie. I'm not sure what role he played, but George Zunza of Law and Order and Dangerous Minds fame was in this. I imagine one of the people who Claude is aggressing. And as the Treat Williams role, Stephen Collins from Seventh Heaven pulls collar, pulls collar, pulls collar. Yeah. So I feel like the movie came out ahead with Treat Williams. that's for sure.

Absolutely. True Williams, secret star of the 70s Spectacular miniseries, because we will also be talking about him when we talk about hair. Yeah, that's true, we've got our hair episode coming up, so yeah. I almost said, in a few weeks, but oh, God, it's going to be like in days, because we have doing so many episodes this month. Just a matter of days, just a matter of days. We're going to get into, obviously, more of the ins and outs of the play, Terrence

McNally, director Richard Lester. But before we do that... Christina, it is on you as the guest to sum up this very simple movie with a 60-second plot. And if you are ready, I can prepare my stopwatch for you to do just that. Yeah, you know, Joe, when you logged on, the second I saw your face, I said, I forgot, I have to do the plot description of this. And I was like, I guess I'm just going to wing it this time. It's no better choice but to wing it for this one.

So, yeah. All right, before you do that, I'm going to lay down the particulars. We're talking about 1976 as The Ritz, directed by Richard Lester, written by Terrence McNally, based on his own play, starring Jack Weston, Rita Moreno, F. Murray, Abraham, Jerry Stiller, K. Ballard, K. Ballard's fur coat, treat Williams, Paul B. Price. Paul B. Price's fuzzy robe that I think he brought with him, because I don't think they were giving out that quality robes to everybody. premiered August 12th, 1976, so close to our, to the centennial celebrations of July 4th, 1976, I imagine, this is how you celebrate the... What the hell would the centennial been like at the Ritz? Like, what was Googie performing that night? Oh, my God, Googie's absolutely doing a patriotic medley of when Johnny comes marching home again and... America the Beautiful. She did J-Lo's version of America Lebuterl.

100. Yeah. Let's get loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She said, let's get loud in the middle of that, no doubt. All right. Christina, I have my stopwatch ready. And if you are ready to begin.

I am. Go. So, Guy Tano is this guy who's married to this woman whose dad's dying. And on his deathbed, his dad's like, her dad's like, kill this guy, he thinks. So he runs away and tells this cab driver. And they're in Manhattan, by the way. And they tell him to, like, get him to somewhere, no one would ever find him. And he's like, absolutely got you, bro. And he takes him to the writs, which is, you guessed it a gay bathhouse. A lot of things happen in this gay bathhouse, including but not limited to a chaser, Rita Marino as a struggling performer who may or may not be a drag queen. And, you know, F. Mary Abraham slaying in a tiny towel. And Treat Williams has a tiny little voice who also may is a cop, I think. But honestly, he was a bad cop. So I'm still a little confused about how that worked. Because he's he said. said hiya, I think far too many times. But then Gaspacho or Gaspano Vespucci, it's Vespucci. It's

not Gaspacho. That's a soup. Gets to the hotel and tries to kill him, I think. And then there's a performance. And then there's also fairies in a pool. I don't know what happens in this movie, you guys, but I love every second of it. That's time. Only two seconds over. First of all, you can absolutely get Caspacho at the Ritz's food court. Yeah, 100%. There's going to be an Real tepid gazpacho, real, uh, yeah, not, not chilled as much as you would want it to be. No, no, no, no. Front door guys leaving an announcement. Please go to the food court Ritz.

Today's special is the gazpacho. Yeah, exactly. Um, where to begin, where to begin, where to begin, this movie. Um, I love that how casually we go from... deathbed father at the beginning who is like, I want you to kill your sister's wife, or your sister's husband. And Jerry Stiller's like, you got it, dude. Bet. Yeah, exactly. And so, and every single time, one of the funny things is every single time

anybody mentions the father, Kay Ballard, who plays the wife, just sort of like goes into these like mourning hysterics, which is very funny. Kay Ballard, by the way, is played by, if you're wanting to know the type of sort of performance we're talking about, I imagine a Janice Soprano who got like a sensible sort of older lady haircut, right? It's that kind of energy. It is. So Guy Tano, who I guess goes by Guy, that's sort of how the wife addresses him. The quickness with which the next time we see him is in like full really, really bad, incognito, like, terrible to pay. Horrible mustache.

Just absolutely. He's the, like, disguise emoji. He's got the, 100%. Like, yeah. It's so funny. It's so funny. And just the speed in which the whole plot progresses and, like, you're just like, the check-in scene feels so long.

And then when you finish the movie, you're like, that was all, like, that whole setup really just came right back. around to that absurd check-it scene of all these people back and forth thing. Treat Williams doing the smooth criminal lean for no real reason I could figure out. But it's such an economical like, here are all our players, right? Like Googie shows up with like the newspaper over and she's, you know, talking about complaining about the weatherman. She thinks an agent's going to be there to discover her. Her entrance. My, my God. I said a star. That's a star. Honest to God, a star. Yes. And she has so so many different, like, fantastic looks in this thing. The, I mean, we'll get into the Everything's

coming up Rose's performance, but the, the wig adjustment and the Everything is coming up Rose's performance hits me every single time. It's so funny. As the Everything's Coming Up Rose's performance started, I said, this is why they needed me on this one. I said, this is for me. This is, like, made four CT. Here's what I will say is I saw this movie for the first time, maybe four years ago, like, right before the pandemic. It was like 2019. Up until that point, I'd been to a lot of gay bars in my life. I'd seen a lot of, like, clips of, like, kitsy things playing on the TVs there.

John Waters movies, sort of like 1940s, you know, athletic videos, straight up porn, fucking legally blonde to the musical bootleg videos, all sorts of stuff. Legally blonde, too, red, white, and blonde. Why the fuck? Have I never seen a gay bar just outright showing the full performance of everything's coming up roses from the Ritz? Where are, where's the culture? Where is the education in our gay bars? Open the schools, as we're often having to say.

And someone should give me $3 billion so I can make that bar a reality. 100%. And call it the Ritz. And just that's, that's all I want. Yes, there is actually a gay bar called the Ritz. I guarantee you it's not as fun. and that's all I have to say about that. F. Marie Abraham, I'm just going to talk about him.

What? Was not prepared for how delightfully light and funny he is in this movie. He's just an absolute pip throughout this entire thing. His attitude, he's so forthrightly horny, but like sort of like flows with the breeze about it. And just sort of bops along and is like, knock, knock, knock. Anything going on? Nope. All right.

I'll go to the next one. and he's so fun. He is always down, but even more so, he is down for a good time. Teeny-tiny towel the whole time, looking slim and trim as you please. Teeny-tiny, like maroon towel, and everybody else has a white towel. So he brought his own towel. Yeah, this is my little towel that I've, like, crafted into this little outfit for, like, my Ritz weekends, which I was an assessment.

My favorite moment is when he and Treat Williams are hiding under the bed, and Guy is sitting or standing on the bed and Googie comes into the room and is like they're going through whatever iteration of she thinks he's the agent and he thinks she's a trans woman. And right. Exactly. Exactly. And finally, Chris just sort of like

pokes his head out from under there and he's like, we're here too. And she's like, who is that? And he's like, it's Chris and she's like, oh. And she goes, oh, hi Chris. She's just so very like, she knows him. She said everybody just like knows and loves Chris. Oh my God. It's so good. I loved all of her little off-the-cuff moments, like, even when she, after that scene, when she leaves and she says, like, happy birthday, honey, to the guy.

Yeah. She's the best. It's just like, oh, this is perfect. Living perfection. I'm glad you mentioned, you know, half of the movie, you know, people don't know if Googie is a trans woman or if she's just an Afab drag queen or if she just, you know, lives not even. been theatrically. She lives like ornamentally, cosmically.

Like, living theatrically is not enough syllables for this woman. There is certain aspects of this that, you know, I think some people would latch onto and think that this movie is offensive in a lot of ways. But I think because it pushes so far

past the level of taste and satire, while also I think ultimately not you know, disaffirming anybody, except for maybe the chubby chaser. Like, maybe this movie kink shames a little bit because that character is so ridiculous. Yeah. That's probably the closest you could get to. I think so, too.

And even then it's still more felt like they were like, this guy particularly is a bad version of being a chubby chaser. Right. Right. We all know it. As a chubby, like, this movie also does not, like, disaffirm the, you know, the life of a, you know, a rotund gay man in this. Like, there's, you know, there's, there's plenty of life to be lived at the, if you are a chapman. And I appreciate it. He was getting them eyes. I was

clocking that. I was like, I like, it was multiple people giving him eyes, which is like, all played for comedy, but it's played for very, like, very good natured comedy. Even, like, the gay panic in this movie measured against, like, the gay panic in something like, oh, I don't know, the television show Friends. It's, like, night and day in terms of, like, what's good natured and what is like actual like othering. I had such, I had a similar note about like how it might, that's such a hard line to walk between the kind of like light homophobia that he's like, you know, kind of bumbling through. But also I'm just kind of being genuinely like good natured and just like, I'm kind of

curious about what's happening and like, I think I might die soon. Well, there's that moment where he peeks into the steam room like, maybe I am a little curious about what's happening here. And then he goes in and he's like, nope, I am not. I am not. This is not for me. I loved that. What else have I seen Jack Weston in?

Besides, I know he's in Dirty Dancing, but like, that's like kind of the only other thing. Yeah. I was like a totemic. Like, that's a memory. That's where I know that guy from. But the other thing else, I was like, for sure, that's a man who's acting, no doubt. Couldn't tell you where. Right, exactly.

He's also in Wait Until Dark. Oh, right. He is in, um... He's in cactus flower. Correct. But Dirty Dancing, I think, is the one that much. most listeners will know him from. Yeah.

I imagine he was also probably a TV guy at some point, like, you know, a lot of the... Well, and he came over from the Broadway cast, so a theater guy as well. That's true. He is, I have to say, quite wonderful in this movie. She's really delightful. I really was, like, he was just, like, so bumble. Usually a character that's that bumbling, I find challenging. Sure.

But I really was kind of just like, I am rooting for you, buddy. I, you're having a weird day. I get how you would be overwhelmed. This is overwhelming. I love how guy keeps trying to commit to, like throughout to wearing this wig and the wig just gets more and more disheveled. And it's like at a certain point, you got to give up the wig, my guy, but he doesn't do it's not doing much to hide him. And also when even the private detective who Jerry Stiller hires, who is Treat Williams, to find him doesn't know what he looks like anyway. So, like, what is the only person who's going to recognize you is Jerry Stiller, who's still going to recognize you with the wig on. So, like, what are we doing, friend? Yeah.

Yeah, the wig is not doing exactly the work you think it's doing. Once they got to the point of, though, where it's characters talking on the other side of locked doors and thus misapprehending where, like, Jerry Stiller thinks F. Murray Abraham is Treat Williams. Jack Weston thinks Treat Williams is... Or Treat Williams thinks Jack Weston is Jerry Stiller. Like, all of the mistaken identity, I'm like, this is... It's Clue in a gay bathhouse in a little bit. Like, there's a little element of that, and I'm just like, that's what I've always wanted. Like, that's the only thing missing from Clue is that it's... Well, and also, Googie thinks that various people are a producer for the stage or an agent,

something, yeah. And briefly, with almost all of them, has a moment where he's just like, are you Seymour Pipping? And she's just about ready. She has this whole story about this producer who was going to cast her in, I can't remember the show, whatever show was going to, like, be her big thing. Oh, is Oklahoma. Oklahoma's at the end when Treat Williams is like my uncle's, uh, what-a-weta. It was sound of music, I think.

She was playing one of the on-trap kids, and she was like, you could do that. I was like, I just, Rita Moreno, like, as Liesel. I'm just like, I'm trying to see that I am 16 go on 17 from her. I want it. So the. Rita Moreno as drag queen Pepe Lepew as Liesel, like. 100%.

Her accent work was so funny and so addictive to repeat in a way that I was like, I cannot be doing it. I will get in trouble, but like, it's all I want to do is the whole everything's coming up Rose's scene. We're like, watch it once. It'll play in your head for the next seven days. Yeah. And it's so dramatic. She delivers it like, I mean, there's already so much drama in the original performance of it in Gypsy. But like, it's so, you know, authoritative. And as she's doing it, like the production elements around her are so shoddy. And the ceiling is, like so low. So she's like always like halfway to bumping her head on the ceiling. The wig goes

askew. She kicks her foot and her shoe goes flying off and lands on the desk of the lady like doing the accounting. My second, like almost my like third favorite character that woman in the cabin. Oh my God. Who's so like instrumental to the end of the movie as it turns out. I know. And it was really satisfying. I felt having Kay Ballard kind of like wrap it up at the end was really delightful just having her have her like last moment to come back in and be like, Here's what's happening. I'm going to wail a couple of times. Oh, my God. And then, of all people, Jack Weston has the nerve to look embarrassed for Googie while he's also wearing a terrible wig. Like, my friend, we have to have sympathy for our fellow wig strugglers.

Can't be throwing those stones in your glass house, my good, sir. Honestly. And then... Guggy's Go-Go-Go Boys, which sounds like it should be the name of a business, Googie's go-go boys who are also like the bathhouse concierge. They show Guy, like, to his room. Like, also bell hops. Right. Like, what does the five-star treatment? They, like, mistake guy for, like, aggressing Claude, so they, like, pull guy off.

And so, like, they do a lot of work around that bathhouse. Good for them. Yeah. I don't think they got tipped nearly enough. No, absolutely not. No, because nobody has any pockets. Give them the mink. Nobody has any pockets.

They're out, it's all in towels. So, like, where is their tipping money? It's nowhere to be found. This is how things would be better today if the Ritz happened today. It's that, you know, they would have, like, a QR code for their Venmo all there. Yeah. No, I thought you were going to say, like, now that all the gays who go to the circuit parties with their fanny packs or whatever, it's just like for their poppers and whatnot, they can have little, like, rolls of tipping cash for the drag queen at the bathhouse. So that's good.

Yeah. Cash and drugs. It's really all you need. Always saying that. I try to live by that. They have that in a woodcut in front of the threshold at the Ritz. So, yeah, that's exactly it. there are other performers besides Googie. So like, Googie's the headliner, basically, and then has to introduce these other performers because there's the guy. It's Talent Night. It's amateur talent night. Yeah, it's amateur talent night. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. God, that. I feel like Talent Night in a bathhouse would end up with some questionable acts.

Oh, yeah. Some people would be, you know. It's a lot of just like, look how far my fist can go kind of a stuff. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes. And you get surprisingly little. of that in this movie. There is something about this movie that really does achieve the line of not really showing sex whatsoever in the movie, but not feeling sex less, you know, in the way that frustrates a lot of people. It was very sex forward, but in a very, it really did feel like a summer camp way, because

just like watching all of those, like, people in the background, I was like, nobody's, like, touch it. Nobody's, no one's on any knee. And yet, there's, like, a ton of. like casual intimacy too. It's just sort of like, people are like watching Googie perform while like just sort of like lounging next to each other in their towels or whatever. And those weird floating plastic chairs.

Yeah. Yeah. Props to the Andrews sister's performance at the end with Gaetano and Claude and who's, is it Treat Williams is the third? I think it was. No, it's F. Marie Abraham. And I was like, you know what?

These queens know their lyrics. They're not. giving me peanut butter. There aren't no say any more. Good for you. Take notes, drag race contestants. The everything's coming up Rose's performance though

is like the show stopping midpoint or like post midpoint part of this movie. And I Joe mentioning that it should be in gay bars

I think even undersells it. It is this huge comic sensibility that I don't think people really have the guts to do today. There is an element of this movie that feels like Rupal's Drag Race Acting Challenge, but it is like what those acting challenges strive for in terms of just the outright silliness and, you know, dumbness of the comedy that's pushed so far that it's smart, you know? Yep. I will say, I did think maybe like halfway through the third act, I was like,

is this a little too much Jerry Stiller? Is this perhaps a little too, like, did he need to maybe come in a little further towards the end? I went back and looked at my letterbox review, and it was, I said it devolves into heterosexual nonsense at some point, and I think that's definitely true, where it's just sort of like, it is a little bit too much, Jerry Stiller, I think there's a little bit too much of like, I think it abandons the antics of the bathhouse a little sooner than it maybe should. It doesn't have to kick the plot. into gear quite so quickly. Yeah, I think the bed scene, like all the, everybody in the bedroom, onto the bed, et cetera, is very fun. And I do think it is very needful. But there is something so much more fun about that scene in the pool house where it's like,

it's kind of all of the elements combined that I kind of was like, I wish the scene in the bedroom was like a little shorter so we could have had like a little bit, a little bit better of a build for this. Maybe a little bit more episodic, make me, maybe a few more little like small little plot, you know, excursions. Bits. It needs a little more bits. I never thought I'd look at this movie and say, more bits, please. Well, I look at those tiny towels and I say more bits, please. But other than that, um, there you go. Treat Williams is so committed to that Mickey Mouse voice. I've never heard anything like it. And it never gets old, too. It never gets old. It's so funny.

And he's so earnest. And he's such a, yeah. What is he talking about? Like, when he first starts talking at the desk, I was like, why is he doing this? Like, who is he pretending to be? None of us know you. Why are you doing this voice? And then I was like, none of us know him. He's not doing a voice. Right, right.

And his character's name is Brick, which I also think is very funny. I loved. Loved. And also just he looks so twinky in this like, this just like ultimate like twink era of Treat Williams. What an absolute snack. That hair, so blonde. So blonde school school, boyish.

Like very much just like, I just spent eight years. at prep school, and now I am, you know, going to go work at my father's bank or something like that. It's so... Are you saying he's Feistian? He's from the Mike Feist School of Products. There's not, not Mike Feist's elements there. You're not wrong.

Yeah. He's a little more... I feel like Feist always gives me a little more, like, there's something happening back there. I'm like, oh, he's thinking. He's calculating. He's always thinking. In a way that I'm like, Treat Williams, are you thinking?

I don't know, but God bless, babe. When passing right through those ears, which is exactly perfect for that character. I love. What's cookies line? Is something about the he-he and the hoo-ha and the ha-ha? You think, I don't know what goes on in this place? All of you men going he-h-h-ha-poh, ha-ha-ha. It's so ridiculous.

And then she goes and like full-on like Superman dives into that laundry shoot to go after Claude after he says she's got tacky drag, which... That's what I screamed. Tacky drag? Both that he had, like, the... He's down there in the laundry garbage chute and has the, still has the, you know, the gay brain to say, I actually have to get a couple of thoughts off about this fit. Right, right, right, right.

I'm not finished reading you for what I think is very tacky drag. And that she was understood that to be the read that it was, that she was like, I simply must follow this to the source. I will take this. I must defend this, like, a waitress at a Japanese restaurant list that I have now that's, like, soaking wet in, you know, dew and steam from this place. This 1998 music video. 100%.

100%. Yes. Um, God bless. What a film. Rita Moreno, Globe nominated for this movie, BAFTA nominated. That's what I was impressed by. A BAFTA nomination. Yes.

BAFTA nomination, uh, alongside Lauren Bacall in the shootest, live Ulman for face-to-face, and I guess Kooker's Nest came out the, a year late because she's nominated against Louise Fletcher, who also won. Yes. So that's like classic old BAFTA especially, where it's just like years mean nothing. But I just like, look at that not, look at that lineup of like Louise Fletcher in Kuckoo's Nest, leave Ollman, Lauren Bacall. And then, like, Rita Moreno is Gugie Gomez doing, I had a dream, a dream about you.

As the headliner of the cuckoo's nest, to be honest. 100%. As was only good and just, this movie was nominated for three Golden Globes. Best Picture Musical or Comedy, which was, sorry, where am I looking? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes. One by a Star is Born. A Star is Born won all three of those gloves.

Barbara's Starzborn dominates the category. Other nominees were The Pink Panther Strikes Again, which is the movie that beat out the Ritz for the Writers Guild Award for Best Adapted Screenplay. Comedy. Bugsy Malone, which is a movie I've never seen. Alan Parker's Bugs of Malone. And then Silent Movie, Mel Brooks's Silent Movie.

Rita loses to, as Chris said, Barbara in Starsbourne, also nominated Jody Foster in Free. Freaky Friday, Barbara Harris in Freaky Friday, Barbara Harris in Family Plot, Goldie Hawn in The Duchess and the Dirt Water Fox. What the fuck is that movie? That's not a movie. I'm sure. That's what's happening in Room 215. The Duchess of Dirt Water Fox? Yeah, 100%. That is Goldie Hawn and George Sewell. Is a Dirtwater Fox when you wear a tan hanky in your right pocket or your left pocket? Yeah, what are you into when you're into dirt water foxing? Listener, if Dirt Water Foxing is your thing. please tell us what it is. Also, if your name is Dirtwater Fox, what's up, I probably know you. The Duchess and the Dirtwater Fox was an American Western romantic comedy

starring Goldie Hawn and George Siegel as the title characters, a female hustler who becomes repeatedly mixed up with a suave con man and card shark through a series of misadventures before falling in love. Well, how lovely. Um, I don't know how you vote for any of them over Rita. I'm sorry.

Sorry, I'll say it. I'll say it, I'll say it too. You got to vote for Rita over Barbara. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I'm sorry. 100%. Nothing else I've ever seen matters anymore. Most importantly, though, this is what this is what got Rita the T in her eGOT. Yes. Because she won supporting actress at the Tonys and this speech, which we love. And she says, I am not a featured actress, or I am not a supporting actress. She said I'm not a supporting actress. I'm the leading lady of the Ritz. Yep.

And she is. 100%. Absolutely. Absolutely she is. Fantastic speech. We'll definitely clip it and put it here. Rita Moreno is thrilled, but Rosa Dolores Alverio from Umakau, Puerto Rico is undone. Finally, I'd like to say, Miss.

Supporting actress, whoever you might have been, I'm a little bit regretful, because I am the leading lady of the rich. I'm not a supporting actress. I mean, if it was up to Gugi Gomez, who is the character I play in the rich, she would say, Lissing, honey. The only thing I support him that show is my bid. Jack Weston loses to Chris Christopherson as a star is born, nominated against Mel Brooks for silent movie, Peter Sellers for the Pink Panther Strikes again, Gene Wilder for Silver Streak. That's a strong category right there, I got to say. That's all your big 70s, big hitters in terms of comedy, right? Mel Brooks and Peter Sellers and Gene Wilder. Like, that's it.

Named as expected, I would say. Yeah. Justice for F. Marie Abraham for not getting a. supporting actor nomination and instead one went to little Ron Howard in the shootist like all right no get F. Murray Abraham he's he's great he's like the glue of art he absolutely is the glue for this he really I was like as he started guiding him around I was like thank God I needed this I needed someone to just take me around what's the layout of this building exactly yeah oh I what I wouldn't give for a floor plan of this particular like I'm already obsessed with so the original continental baths were on the Upper West Side in the basement of the Ansonia Hotel, which is now, I believe, an apartment building. I'm always obsessed with those buildings on the Upper West Side that are these big sort of like full block only murders in the building style like apartment buildings.

That one, the Ansonia, is the one where I always walk past that and I'm just like, I just want to like poke around and like see what's in the basement now. Like, what's going on? Because I think there is. I think they did put something there. I should look that up. I'm probably talking out of my butt. Hold on. I have to crack my door.

My cat is attacking. Oh, of course. Viciously. The cat's mistaking for a large man in there. Oh, God. I was joking that your cat was chubby chasing and mistaking that there was a large homosexual man in here. Yeah, it's so weird she actually came in here and started brandising a gun and called me the F slur.

It was what's going on? Okay, the Chevy Chaser is also kind of violent. Like, he threatens Jack Weston that if he doesn't come down to his room, he's going to break his knees? Yeah, and then hearing about his military background, I was concerned. He seems not well. Okay, so Rita's Egot, which she has two Emmys, but her first Emmy was for The Muppet Show. her Grammy was for the electric company her Tony was for the Ritz I think these were all the same three the same three you know entities the same three narratives you could redo the Muppets in the Ritz

like fully Muppets in the Ritz would be the greatest thing I've ever seen Janice is the accounting lady who is Beaker Beaker is the Chubby Chaser That's absolutely true. You get Walder and Settlerf up there. They're just like, hey, hit on that guy better. Waldre and Stettler and Waldorf are the gay people just chilling on the bed with a snack when they knock down the wall from the room that everybody's hiding in. All right. So a little bit more info on the Continental Baths, which were a thing throughout the –

B, B, B, B, B, B, B. Uprated from 1968 to 1976, were styled after the bathhouses of ancient Rome, opened a year before Stonewall. This is Joe's Roman Empire. 100% this is my Roman Empire. But then when they closed, they were then reopened in 1977 as a straight swingers venue, the famous straight swingers venue, Plato's Retreat. If you've ever heard of Plato's retreat, which is like where all the like horny straight people went to go swap wives and whatnot. Yeah, all of us are wincing at the idea of straight bathhouse for straight swingers. We do not approve of straight bathhouse calls me. All respect to the swinger committee, community, all respect to the swinger community.

We are not kink shaming here. No, I just am a woman of, you know, queer experience who is. had so many more flashbacks of just like couples on Tinder as I'm swiping that I couldn't, couldn't respect you, but take it away from me. So Plato's retreat was eventually closed down by the city at the height of the AIDS epidemic. And then I feel like there is something in the where that space used to be in the Ansonia condos that I am going to investigate the next time I'm in the city. So I will report back. Anyway, it's, you know, the problem with Plato's,

closet or whatever it's called, they didn't carry the gazpacho, and now that space is just a gazpacho restaurant. It's just a basement gazpacho restaurant. It's the same recipe from when it was a bathhouse. Plato's closet really took me out. Wait, Plato's closet is a store that exists, but it's here. I was like, it must exist. Yeah, it's like a, it's a secondhand retail store. It is a secondhand restaurant. The only thing it could be. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes. Um, That's so funny. All right, do we want to get into the Oscars of it all, the 1976 Academy Awards? This is the Rocky Year.

This is one of those years that people talk about, 1975 and 1976 are both years where people talk about like all-timer best picture lineups in terms of like, you know, all killer, no filler. The one in 1976 is pretty great. It's one of those ones where it's like, Rocky. tends to raise some eyebrows. Raises my eyebrows, I'll say. I think if Rocky was a movie about a woman doing woman things instead of a boxer doing boxing things, it would raise many more eyebrows. I think Shakespeare in love gets more shit than Rocky does in a way that I find a little

suspicious. But anyway, Rocky beats out all the president's men bound for glory, network, and taxi driver we talked about bound for glory when we did our um our harold and maud episode when we talked about hal ashby very divisive movie a lot of people think that it is you know sleep inducing there's a lot of people who stand by it i think it's kind of half in half out like the woody guthrie stuff is pretty boring pretty standard biopic but then there's good like anything in that movie that's about, like, the unions is really, like, that's where I'm like, this is a good movie.

Get in. And then, yeah, I had to watch it in, like, film class, I think. And I was like, I, some of this is working and some of this is not. I haven't seen it. But every time I see a scene of it and the cinematography just sort of, like, knocks me out so much that I just like, I really do want to see it. Yeah. Chris, you've seen Network recently.

And we've both seen Taxi Driver again recently because we did our Scorsese draft on screen drafts um talk about all killer no filler network network bang still slaps y'all like network is and you can see why it was divisive at the time because you know some people thought it was doing too much yada yada yada you know you read some of the reception of it and it's like oh they respond to this movie like people respond to adam mackay movies and there is something if you guys knew how bad it would get in that regard in terms of satire. You'd maybe go softer on network because network is just like, not just brilliant, but like every single scene hits fucking hard and is so funny without ever asking for the laugh. Like, Faye Dunaway says some shit in that movie that I was

cackling at. I mean, no better woman to say some shit than Faye D'Away. Very true. Who, Imagine who? I just sent Joe a video last night that I saw on Twitter of Faye Dunaway doing some type of ad, and it's like the unedited footage where it ends with her berating someone for being in her sightline, for reading this totally dumb copy. And by all reports, Faye Dunaway is a monster. I'm sure we'll get into more of it on the Eyes of Laura Mars episode. But that performance is just so fucking good.

And the thing about Faye, first of all, winning best actress this year, there's that iconic morning after photo where she's sitting by the pool and like she very clearly has not gone to sleep yet. The Oscars just on the table with all of these newspapers, just like, and I think that was the first time that anybody had ever done anything like that, where it was this kind of unvarnished, you know, very, yeah, yeah, you know, everything used to be so polished, whereas that was. was like, let's get the real, whatever. And now you see stuff like that all the time, and it's morphed into being this incredibly manufactured thing where it's like, here's the version of that that you put on Instagram,

and it's in 15 different filters, and you're posed, and yada, yada, yada. It was probably out planned. But Faye Dunaway, in her speech, which is relatively short and not very egotistical, Faye Dunaway got so much shit for saying, what's the actual words that she says? It's like, I didn't think that this would happen quite yet. But yeah, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, like, first of all, she did almost win for Chinatown. So people couldn't really give her shit for this, but it's also kind of phony because you almost won for China Town. Like, you know, this is almost a decade after Bonnie and Clyde, you know, she apparently thought that she would have to wait longer in her career for it to happen. Yeah. But it's whatever there is a. sense of sort of inside knowledge of the meta of your Oscar pursuit that people are like, how obsessively are you following this? How much are you down this rabbit hole?

I find to network a tad juvenile in ways that I can't entirely always get on board with, but I think in general, it's obviously as, you know, a, a marker of where the media was then and where the media would be going. Yeah, I also think it's hard to not watch now and be like, God, please. The one that I sort of watch and then like, the one that I watch now and it's just like, oh, you predicted like the entire future is taxi driver where you watch that. And it's just like the violence, the sort of the antisocial wave of all of that, the frustration and anger with politics. And it's so, it's also iconic Columbus Circle,

Lincoln Square at cinema. I watch that all the time and I'm just like, oh my God, I used to work here for like four years. And I don't know where anything is because like everything got remodeled up there. Tremendous, tremendous movie. Also, all the president's men is such a goddamn banger. Just totally solid. Yeah. That's the other thing. It's just like all of these movies had such a wide lens for the historical moment that it was in. And the fact that this was all happening in the bicentennial year is kind of amazing. The most rah-rah movie won, which is not a surprise. You know what I mean? The most just like triumph of the human spirit. Also the movie that probably could have been made at any point in film history. You know, there's so many movies

that are like, Rocky didn't make that mold. Rocky is in a mold that already existed at that time. And, you know, it makes it seem like it's the boring pick among this lineup, and I think that it is. But I think for me, the thing that makes me look sideways at Rocky winning, in doing the research for this, there are a lot of quotes that Stallone gave at the time that it's like, oh, you are stupid. Like, you are, on top of being an egomaniac, you are dumb. Well, we think he's not a thinker, really? Here's a quote that he said about the screenwriting process for the movie, which famously he wrote the screenplay for this movie in a week. And he said, I'm astounded when people who take 18 years to write something, that's how long it took that guy to write Madame Bovary, Gustav Flaubert, by the way. And was that ever on the bestseller list?

No, it was a lousy book and it made a lousy movie. Go off on Flaubert, I guess. It is such a bizarre of all the references to pull. Madam Bovary is not one that's top of mind for a ton of people. He dated a girl one time who was in a class who was reading Madame Bovary and like that's why it stuck in his mind this whole time. And he thinks it sucks because he never heard of it. I will say all that aside, Rocky's a good movie that like if Rocky's on TV, I will

probably get sucked up into it at some point. It works. It very much works. I am in Philadelphia. I can say nothing. I will be found instead. I was going to say, we can't, we can't risk your safety. We can't allow that.

Look, it's fun. I get lit up. Like, it's cool. Like, sorry. I do sometimes want to fight the eye of the tiger. I get it. Is this the one where Talia Shire, the Oscars where Talia Shire looks absolutely livid when she loses to, when she loses to Faye Dunaway?

It's incredible. That woman could laser beam through glass with her eyes at that point. It's so good. There's some pretty interesting quotes about how, of her. opinion on pushing for a lead actress role. And it's like things along the lines of, well, I played it like I was a lead actress. It's like, okay, what does that mean, Tally? That's me doing my job every day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I do this podcast like I'm a lead actress. I write copy like a lead actress. Yeah, 100%. That look on her face always makes me think of that scene of hers in

I heart Huckabee's, where she just goes, what are you a bitch? She's a bitch talking to talking to Isabelouper. I can just imagine her. I don't think I have to revisit I Heart Huckabees. I haven't watched it in, like, since I was definitely too young to get it, like, when it first came out. And I was like, I, this is annoying. I don't care for this.

But I feel like I was an adult. It's a terrible human being, but it is so goddamn funny. It's really. He's a terrible human being, but it's low-key, his best movie. Oh, it is not even close. This is what I keep hearing. And I'm now like, I might have to revisit it, if only to get that for myself, finally. That's Talia,

scene. Yeah, exactly. Here's another thing Stallone said about, you know, this moment because a lot of this, you know, it's post-women's liberation and that affects a lot of these movies and the discussion around them. In terms of like, Rocky, as a romantic

lead, he said, I don't think women's lib wants all men to become limp-risted librarians. There doesn't seem to be enough real men to go around. My guy, he said a lot of dumb. He said a lot of dumb shit.

I'm loving that Chris just drags. Oh, yes. Chris drags Sylvester Stallone podcast. It's finally come. You finally arrived. Talk about this. Who else have I become? Oh, I've also been dragging Walter Mathau.

Oh, yeah. Chris's mission in this miniseries is to eviscerate Walter Mathau's already dead course. I love Walter. I love Walter. He said some awful shit. No, I'm sorry. I have a tiger doesn't come until Rocky 3. It's going to fly now.

That's the song from the first Rocky. Loses to Barbara. It is nominated but does not win. It loses to Evergreen. Chris, I know you and I have the same one we would probably vote for, though, which is. Oh, wait, hold on. Let me look at this. Oh, I thought you had it in front of you.

I do. Oh, it's Aves Satani. Like, an Oscar-nominated song about Hail Satan. Absolutely. I can't believe that they nominated that. Like, that's a wild nomination. That's awesome. It's super awesome.

We've been giving our favorite wins of the decade, but truly my favorite nomination. is probably Ame Satani in best original song. Oh, do we get yours, Christina? Do you have a favorite Oscar win of the decade? Oh, I don't know that I do, actually. I'll have to think on that, but I will, before we wrap, I'm going to think of one.

I'm just not to take a minute. Think. So here's an interesting fun fact. So this was the year that Lena Wartmuller gets nominated for Best Director for Seven Beauties, first woman to ever be nominated in Best Director. It's also the same year that Marie Christine Burrell

is nominated for Cousin Cuisine, which is a movie that I basically know as the basis for an Arrested Development joke about cousins who want to be with each other. Both of those movies are nominated for Foreign Language Film, and then neither one of them wins. They both lose to a French Ivoryan, French Ivory Coast, I imagine. Yes, Ivory Coast. Movie called Black and White in Color, directed by by Jean-Jacquesneau, who directed something that I know of. Oh, who directed the name of the Rose and Seven Years in Tibet, which is a movie that we have covered on this podcast. Yes.

So I knew there was a connection there. It is interesting that they both lost, and I've always wondered about the Lena Wurtmuller director nomination. You know, just like, how was it that she kind of became the one to break through in that way? And it turns out there actually was kind of a large publicity campaign around her. She covered the, she was on the cover of New York Magazine dubbed the most important film director since Bergman. So it's not like she necessarily came out of nowhere to get this nomination. There was a large, you know, publicity campaign behind it. That's interesting.

That is interesting. I also think, thinking about it, favorite Oscar. win of the decade. It's cabaret. It's Liza. It's cabaret. Come on. Come on. That's what Joe thought mine would be. And I went in a different direction. I'm happy to be the Chris in this space then. Wait, Chris, I'm reading some of your notes here for 1976. One of which is this Burgess Meredith quote that I think is very funny. And I imagine it just in the Burgess Meredith voice. One would have to. Read it to us in Burgess Meredith's voice. I am going to cough through it because my throat has been a mess. But wait, so it's, it's a refreshing change after things like taxi driver and one flew over the cuckoo's nest. Brilliant pictures, perhaps, but not rooting pictures. It's the difference between watching a sunset and a snake. Honestly, Burgess Meredith making the best case for Rocky in that way. Watching a sunset and a snake, that's not bad. Yes. That's probably why it won. Yeah. Well, and like, I thought it was interesting also. Frank Capra came out in support of this

movie after, you know, a lot of critics were comparing it to, like, a Capra movie. Interesting, interesting. He said it was the best movie he'd seen in a decade. I wonder if the fact that you had in the same year all the President's Men network taxi driver, that there was just a lot of competition over what the counterculture sort of choice was going to be. That makes sense. Because President's Men wins a bunch of critics awards. And network, I imagine, is so flashy. And there's, you know...

Put a lot of people off. Right, right. I also didn't realize the circumstances of Peter Finch's death, where he wins the Oscar posthumously. While campaigning, he dies in the lobby of Good Morning America, getting ready for an interview. The man did like 300 interviews between his death and the movie coming out. He fucking wanted that thing. And he apparently, when they were going to put him in supporting, he kind of went off. And obviously, he won posthumously for lead.

And, you know, also to the benefit of Ned Beatty, who's like five minutes. I think he's like 10 seconds longer of screen time than Beatrice straight. But like, if Peter Finch had been in Supporting Actor, they would not have nominated Ned Beatty. And I love that Ned Beatty performance. But yeah, Peter Finch, first, I think the first posthumous. Good morning America. Yeah. Not even when it was hosted by, like, Diane Sawyer or anything like that.

It's not worth it to die to speak to David Hartman and Sandy Hill. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sorry. It's just not happening. It's not going to work for me. In the lobby? No, it's not going to. That's not going to work.

No. Yeah. I wonder. Diane in a dressing room for me. I wonder where they filmed back then, because if it was where the Regis and Kelly show used to film, that was my old building that I worked in. I wonder if I worked in the same place that Peter Finch died. That would be dark.

Anyway. The other thing about it is, you know, Peter Finch obviously left behind his widow, Aletheap. I think that was her name. So the Oscar ceremony this year is produced by William Friedkin. And, you know, this is an era of people not knowing whether to, you know, the old guard kind of wants the pomp in circumstance and the celebration of it and New Hollywood is very, like, anti, you know, the, you have people like Pacino and Hoffman not showing up,

and you have, obviously, all of that that we've talked about in previous episodes. Friedkin produces it, and his answer to all of this is to produce a very unsentimental ceremony, to the extent that he approaches Patty Chayevsky, the screenwriter of Network, and says, If Peter Finch wins, you will be accepting. We don't want his wife accepting because we don't want some overly sentimental, sobbing widow on TV screens. So when Peter Finch does win, Chayefsky goes up there and he's like, actually, there's someone else who should be up here and then calls up his widow who, you know, gives this more sober speech. And apparently, Chayevsky had always planned to do that. Because what the fuck, Billy Freed kid.

Yeah, that's... Also, it's like, why are you producing the Oscars? Like, seriously, like, that is... Right. What's going on here? Yeah. Oh, I choose no viewers. I choose no viewers to watch this.

Like, to kick that opportunity in the mouth to say, oh, we have the widow here to accept this award. But, like, who would want to see that? Who'd want to see a touching emotional, you know, acceptance speech from his wife? No one wants that. No one wants to cry or feel good at the Oscars. Mm-mm. And it's so funny you say that because it was the lowest rated Oscars. ceremony ever up to that point.

Wow. There we go. There were performances, I would say, from Anne Margaret, Tom Jones, Barbara Streisand, and singing Gunna Fly Now, of course, Ben Vereen. So. Sure. Singing and dancing at the Billy Friedkin Oscars, so there was that. Amidst a very sober audience where no one was smiling or laughing.

Speaking of Peter Finch, though, Diane. under sad and infamous circumstances to bring it back to the Ritz, of course. Terence McNally died of COVID in early... That was the first... I think that was the first... I think he was the first famous name... Famous name that I saw who had died from competition.

Yeah, it was March of 2020. Yeah. It was quite sad to hear about that. And... What a career, too. Oh, we should talk about... Like, we should be on... Because the Ritz was...

an early success for Terrence McNally. But this is somebody who has made more varied and interesting plays than I think a lot of people realize, right? Where it's love, valor, compassion, or master class, which the Angelina... Speaking of a pay down no way. I was, yes. Well, also is the Angelina Jolene movie where she plays Maria Callis this year based on Masterclass, or is it not? No. It's not. No, it's Pablo Lorraine, so it's going to be a very Pablo Lorraine experience. Oh, that's this year? That's coming this year. I don't think we're ready for this movie. I cannot wait.

I don't think so either. After the Ritz, McNally wrote Frankie and Johnny in the Claire Dalloon. We've done an episode on the film version of Frankie and Johnny. Love Valor Compassion, which, speaking of gay artifacts that people should see and maybe haven't by now, if you haven't seen the film version of Love Valor Compassion. I was not lucky enough to see the stage version, but the film version has a lot of the same people. They swapped out a few.

Nathan Lane is swapped out for Jason Alexander, which is too bad. Although that was, I believe, there's a whole thing about Nathan Lane being somewhat skittish about being sort of

publicly out as a movie star back in the 90s. There's that whole story about him being in the birdcage, and he and Robin Williams being on Oprah, and Oprah sort of maneuvering to ask him specifically about his sexuality, and Robin Williams kind of running interference for him at that moment, because I think Nathan Lane was not, it would have been a lot of light on somebody, I imagine, in 1996, to be the most sort of famous openly gay actor. So I think part of the reason why he didn't do love valor, compassion, the movie is perhaps

caught up in that. I'm not entirely positive. I think he actually was already contracted to do a funny thing happened on the way to the forum on Broadway, but don't quote me on that. That sounds right. Nathan Lane, very busy in the 90s. Yeah, well, and this was the same year as Lion King comes out and all that sort of stuff. Right.

Love Valour Compassion, though, when I watched it a little bit ago, Love Valour Compassion is 100% like the thing that all of the, like, gay independent cinema was trying to be at the time, but like kind of the prototype of it. And it's pretty good. It's definitely like of its time. I don't know how you really revive it without it being a period piece. They do talk about like racism within the gay community in a way that you don't really see

in 90s stuff. They talk about... It's obviously, you know, related to AIDS. They talk about, like, people having different bodies, and there's a couple in it that's clearly, like, y'all are gay Republicans, and this is an era of gay people where they just didn't. Like, it was just, you know, you just had your gay Republican friends. I never saw that...

What was the big, uh, multi-part gay play from a few years ago from right before the pandemic? The inheritance. The inheritance. Never saw that. But everything I heard about that, I was like, you guys could just, like, do love valour compassion again. Like, instead, like, that would be fine. And crucially, isn't love valor compassion set in Duchess County?

So that's a part of my life. I guess we're going to have you on to do love valor compassion. It feels like I'm already calling that one. He also wrote musicals. And he was working, like, right up until the last few years. But he wrote Kiss of the Spider Woman and Ragged. time and the Fulmonte, which, by the way, the play version or the musical version of the Fulmonte is set where in Buffalo, New York?

Honestly, good musical. Honestly. He also, I should say, back in the, speaking of COVID during very much lockdown times, there was a theater trivia that was done on Zoom that I would do every week with friends of mine. And one of the answers, in some way, every week, there was a question whose answer ended up being The Rink, which was a Terrence McNally musical set at a roller rink that starred Liza. Chita Rivera and Liza Minnelli. If you want to go look up ads for the rink on YouTube, they are right there for you, and it's Chita and Liza on their roller skates, and it will make

you want to travel back in time to the mid-80s to go watch that. It did not. succeed and yet didn't. It's a crazy sentence. I can't believe that didn't succeed. Yes. I'm already throwing money at the concept. 100%. 100%. Yes. So, Terrence McNally won Tony Awards for

Kiss of the Spider Woman, Love, Valor, Compassion, Masterclass, Ragtime. And in 2019, a special Tony Award for Lifetime Achievement in the theater. One of the greats seemed to be like just a genuinely good guy from everything that I had seen from him.

Also, since you mentioned it, The Kiss of the Spider Woman musical, that is apparently happening with J-Lo and Bill Condon. I'm excited for me. I feel like we all have something to say about this. Have you got, I need to know if you guys have watched J-Lo's documentary. I still haven't somehow. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I know, I know. I might need you to, to simply put it on this very evening.

I have every single thought. You will never. saw the clip of like all of the like angels in America, angels of Jane Fonda and like Miley side. It was crazy. It's a zodiac council. It's obviously very easy to understand. All of these people, you know, including Neil deGrasse Tyson and Cam Petrus and Post Malone, continuing his win streak of being in J-Lo's movie and documentary, being on Cowboy Carter and being in the Torchid Poets Department. Somehow having the best year of anybody. How's that happening?

There is so much... Timest person at the year post Malone. Intimate J-Lo and Ben footage. Those two are in love in a way that is shocking, but charming. They want you to know it. They definitely want you to know it. It's really something. And to just watch Jaila be like, no one wants this for me.

Simply no one will finance this. I'm financing this myself. And I have to, I am compelled to do it because it's art and I'm an artist. I think that's so beautiful. That's so DeLulu. Girl, what are you talking about? Jailo's document. and Megalopoulos.

Literally, I would imagine they are one and the same. I imagine Megalopoulos also has a Zodiac Council with Post Malone in it. I also imagine that Fat Joe is the therapist. Oh, my God, yes. Don't worry. She's doing inner child work, everyone. Don't worry. Where was I? I was somewhere recently at a store or standing in line situation. and in the whatever PA music was happening was Janet Jackson's Miss You Much. And I'm like, this is very cool.

And then it gets to the part where at the end of Hustlers, where they smash cut to credits, where they just go like, one, two, three, and it's like hustlers. And I literally, my body, like, the hairs on my arm sort of stood up. And I was just like, like, I had a body sense memory of that moment watching the movie. I was just like, fuck, yeah. Like, this is so cool. The DJ that just, like, gives narration over the credits. It's so good.

It's so good. I'm overdue for a hustler's rewatch. Yes, we all are. Same. Before we move on from Terrence McNally, the other work of his that I would want to spotlight is Corpus Christi, his play that was like, what if all the apostles were gay? Cost quite a step. He had a long-standing relationship with Manhattan Theater Club doing his

works and because they received like death threats, they canceled it and eventually it was put on in New York one of his most highly controversial works that stays fairly controversial. If that's made today, I can't

imagine that the controversy is as heeded, right? Or do we think it would be? What are Christians like heated about now? Like Are they too busy, like, toasting each other for, like, ruining abortion rights for everybody else?

Like, are they, like, what's, what's their damage right now? I mean, it's like that. It's, like, trans stuff. I think they would probably be, you, I think they always find a way to get activated. Yeah, they always do, don't they? They kind of stay in a state of activation. It just takes one tweet popping on for those people. Yeah, that's all they need.

I don't know how you could. Now, if it was a movie about Jesus' apostles who. for an evening, spend an evening of mistaken identity at a bathhouse in New York City. And they're also trans-abortionists. Who's going to complain? Then they would get upset. Then they would get upset. But the apostles are looking for Jesus, who is performing with Gugi Gomez at the baths, but they can't find him.

Googie Gomez is Jesus. So all of a sudden it's a scene where, like, the apostles just sort of like, Benny Hill style running. into the steam room and then run out of the steam room and they're just sort of... Yeah, I imagine it choreographed much like synchronized swimming. Oh, so you're getting like apostles as Esther Williams type, like choreographed into the pool and whatnot. I like that. It's like Rina Moreno and the apostles, you know. Right, right, right, right. I'm into it.

It's very like, like, do-wop 60s. Perfect, perfect. All right. Anything else about the 76 Oscars before we're done? I'm sort of, Chris, you make such a fantastically comprehensive notes. So I want to make sure we're hitting everything. I feel like the three of us need to talk about Carrie for a minute, you know. Yeah. And I think listeners all want us to talk about these very odd nominations that happened for Carrie.

I think probably Piper Lorry's nomination makes way more sense because, you know, Piper Lorry already an Oscar nominated actress. This was her return to movies after a 15-year absence. And like, it's a big performance. Sissy Spasek is there, like, purely on the backs of, like, really great reviews supporting her incredible performance. It was, like, her third movie, I think, that she ever made. But one of the earlier ones was Badlands, and I imagine she had probably gotten a lot of really good reviews for that as well. Yeah.

I haven't seen Carrie in a very long time. I was very, very scared of it as kids. I was like, I don't like what I'm looking at. I will say, we watched Carrie at a gay Halloween get-together one time, and it was just like, it was like just a movie night. And the absolute joy we got out of just the smallest little touches, there's a moment where, well, first of all, what's her name from Halloween? Shit, why can't remember your name? Oh, God. Give me a second.

Pull it up. um nancy allen no not nancy no um p j souls p j souls thank you p j souls who plays norma in in carey whose whole thing was she wears a hat the whole time she wears a hat that's all you need every single time she was on screen we were just like throw in dollar bills at the screen we were just so excited to see her the hat there's one point where she's in a salon and her heads under the like hair dryer and the hat is a top the hair dryer so that she's never not without the hat. It's perfect. Absolutely perfect. Also, Betty Buckley and fucking Amy Irving. Betty Buckley, who would be in the stage musical as Carrie's mom. Have you guys ever watched any of the YouTube's of the bootleg of that original musical? It's nuts. It's like, it's wild. And like Betty Buckley, it's a terrible quality bootleg. So like Betty Buckley, in the video quality of what you're seeing, it looks like she's still in her fucking cat's makeup. It's. It's wild.

It's, I mean, you know, a notorious Broadway flop. But, like, at the end of the show after Carrie kills everybody, there's this massive staircase that descends from the wind. It's wild. Well, she's covered in blood. Oh, wow. That's bonks. And scary, I fear. Yes.

Can too. Can too. So scared. I love Carrie. Wait. Carrie, to me, is like, I mean, I know it's like a lot of people's favorite horrors. horror movies. And I don't even like, it's, it never really scared me, except for a lot of the Jesus stuff in that movie. The scariest stuff of that movie is Christ. I think the Jesus stuff

would be scarier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I imagine it's much scarier if you're a woman, you know, especially the bullying scenes. The, but Carrie's just like such a sad fucking movie. Yeah. That I, I love Sissy Spacec and I think Sissy Spac sells that movie as a a tragedy. I'm going through... For comedy, so that's all we need. Yeah. I'm going through the opening night cast of the 2007 revival of the Ritz, the one that

only lasted like two months in 2007. Rosie Perez is Gugie Gomez, yes. Brooks Ashmancus as Chris, which that's good casting. Seth Rudetsky as just one of the patrons of the Ritz. Also, though, as one of the patrons. Patrons of the Ritz in his Broadway debut, Billy Magnuson. Oh, that's good. I'm there. I'm seated.

Yeah, I'm seen. I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, the casting call for that was like, we are looking for men with abs and pectorals. I imagine he could provide. He was, I imagine. That was probably when he was still on as the world turns or around the time that he was on as the world turns. But yes. Yeah. Wow.

All right. Do we want to move into Christina? else to say about the Ritz before we move into. I'm looking at my notes and I'm like, yeah, I just really was, just wrote about how much I loved Rita Moreno and that maybe we needed a little less Jerry Stiller in the third act. Sorry, Jerry. I will say though. So Jerry Stiller doing Italian. Hilarious. Jerry still. Yes, very, it's like. Very believable. And it's very much just like there's, there's, you can always see a little Frank Costanza in there and whatever he's doing, which is always fun. Anytime his voice hits that level, I'm like,

there he goes. Yep, yep, exactly. There's Frank. It's my bud. Yep. Um, all right. Then, Chris, why don't you tell our listeners all about the IMDB game? All right. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front.

After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-references. All the Pints. That is the IMDB game. Christina, you are our guest. You get the choice of if you want to give your clue first or guess first and to whom you want to give your clue to. I feel like I always give clue first. I'm going to shake it up and guess first.

And who would you like to guess from, myself or Chris? Why not, Joe? All right. So I will quiz Christina. I can't imagine what you're going to. to do to me, Joe. Christina will quiz Chris and then Chris will quiz me. Okay, so, how did I get here?

How did I get here? How did I get here? I got here through, oh, so the recently departed, sadly, Treat Williams. His final performance has been given on television series Feud Capote versus the Swans. One of the other cast members playing Lee Radzwell on that show is, one, Callista Flockhart. Two television shows and two movies make up Callista Flockhart's known for. Okay.

To be honest, my favorite performance in the Swans was probably Callista Flockhart. Like to. I still have to finish it, but yes. As a lover of Carol Radswell, I hope so. I know, Carol's her mother-in-law, her real-life mother-in-law. Yes, indeed. Real-life mother-in-law. Okay, so Callista is one of them brothers and sisters.

Shockingly, no, it is not brothers and sisters. I know. Oh, that's so unfair as a woman of multiple, I've had multiple dreams where I've been married to Sally Field in my life. And often we are having an argument at the counter from the show brothers. Of course. I can picture in my head right now. I'm constantly like, you know, are we bringing, are we thinking about it? Are we bringing it back?

Pasadena is the Westchester of Los Angeles also. So that makes a lot of sense that you would put your sister. That is hugely true. Okay, Callista. It's not the swans, of course, because that is, well, is it the swans? I think I'm, is it the swans? I'm guessing swans. It's not swans. There's enough famous people in it that I was like, maybe this has changed the algorithm. So your years are, for the movies, it's 1996 and 1999. The TV shows began in 1997 and 2015. So on either side of brothers and sisters. On others, yes, that is how I tend to, you know, think about things. Where are we placing these things in relations to brothers and sisters? The ABC drama Brothers and Sisters, yes. Obviously one has to be Allie McBeal.

Allie McBeal is correct. The other one. The other TV one, I'm going to sit because that's going to be a challenge. That'll be the challenge, yes. Clista in movies is also something that is challenging. because I don't think of her. And movies a ton. Literally the only thing I can think of is the birdcage.

The birdcage is correct. That's the 1986 one. Yep. Okay. Okay. And the other one is 99. 9. 99.

A movie that we don't really talk about it all anymore, but had like a real starry cast. We should do an episode on this. We should. Because I don't remember if I've seen this or not. I haven't. Okay. You guys haven't seen it. it. Interesting.

Interesting. Very starry cast. She is second build. Alphabetically, though. Oh, is it alphabetically? It is. The top five stars are all above the title and they're all alphabetically. Okay. Okay.

Okay. What? I'm trying to remember. I know there is something I have seen her in that is not Birdcage. But what is it? What is it? There's a lot. Like a, like a, what something?

I want something. Genre S? Yeah, there's a fantasy element to, it's a period comedy with fantasy elements. Is that how we... That's interesting. It's also like, based on, like, the most notable source material, like, the most notable writer. Oh. There is a loose tie to Allie McBeal.

It is mid-summer-time for you? Yes. Yeah. Oh, right, because it's Michelle Pfeiffer, David E. Kelly. Right. Right, right, right, right, right. Oh, sure. I didn't even make that connection.

This other TV show, I had no idea that she was on this show. I'm wondering if she's like a recurring character, because it bills her for 27 episodes over six years. I think she eventually leaves early on. This is a TV show that swapped networks early on, but at least in the first season, she was like the second build character. Or maybe she was like the and. She was like, she was the one who was sort of bringing Gravitas to the show. It moved from CBS to the CW, I think, or the other way around. I think it was CBS to the CW.

Okay. That's a strange move. It's very strange. But that does also position me in like at least a genre energy. Like if we're going to the CW. Yes. It feels like it should have always been on the CW. Yeah.

What was the CW doing? in like the late teens like it was a lot of superhero shit it was a lot yes and there was that one the one the supergirl supergirl is in fact the show that we're talking about is she isn't supergirl she's her boss essentially in supergirl oh no she's like the miranda priestly of whatever like day job supergirl has i didn't even know supergirl had a day job i thought that would she's like a reporter maybe or a advertising executive or a magazine writer, something where like the boss would have a power suit ensemble or something. I watched a little bit of Supergirl.

That just sounds like a writer's room full of doing like, what's a lady dog? So that's sort of all you kind of need to know about that character. Yeah, it's very CW slash reform coded character name. Very much so. All right. So you then will give a clue, or we'll give a name of an actor or actress to Chris.

Oh, right. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I was looking at your IMDB, and I was like, you guys have not done treat Williams himself. Oh. So there we go. Okay. The Ritz is not going to be there.

How much TV? I don't think any of this is TV. No. Wow. So no ever would. No. That's what I was thinking, too, but I did not. Mm-mm.

Mm-mm. I think hair is there. Hair is there. Okay. Hair is there. Oh, this is going to be hard. It is. It is.

There's one that I laughed out loud. I'll say it. If I gave this to you, you would yell at me, Chris. But I know that you would never yell at Christina. You can. No. If the one that made you laugh out loud is something. really stupid

I'll be maybe I'll reserve the right to yell I have to actually think of something that he is in that because I think of him so much for TV

and there's no TV as I'm often saying he and close to TV people to me I may just try to get my years and say the Ritz okay well you're wrong so you got that wrong so your years are

1998 1996 and 1995. Okay. All 90s movies. What was this man up to in the 90s? 96. Can I get some genres maybe? Though I feel like he's all in the same genre.

Well, there's one that's a plot twist, I would say. There's one that feels out of the rest of the tones. We've got a little something silly. inactiony, I would say. And then we've got... That's the one that's the plot twist. That's our plot twist. And then you've got, yeah, you're kind of, I think where you would normally expect to find Tree Williams in the mid-90s would be the other two.

Like, you're kind of... Courtroom dramas. Yeah, I'm getting dad TNT vibes from this. This is on T&T at a Sunday. Like, no one knows what's happening, but we're watching it for something. He's first build in the one from 1998. Mm-hmm. He's not first built in either one of the other ones.

One of the other ones is a movie that I tend to think of as a movie that exists as a title. Sure, like, things to do in Denver when you're dead. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly that. It's that. This tells you how much I know about things to do in Denver when you're dead.

I know the titles. Well, and apparently... Is he first built in that? No. That's Andy Garcia movie. There you go. That's the 96? The 5.

95. So... 96 is your silly action. 96 is your silly action. And this is... It's not men in black. What else is silly action around that time? It's silly action that I think the world forgot about due to it being terrible.

Yeah. Oh, okay. There was a post-Batman pre-Spiter Man era where, like, they tried to do a lot of type of movies that did not hit in that space. Oh, so it's a comic book. movie? Yeah. Yeah. And they perhaps pulled an actress who, if, you know, anyone knows early histories of CT, mattered a lot. Mattered a lot. Oh, so is this female lead? No. No. Like he's not the comic book character? The main comic book character is somebody who is not treat Williams. Who's not treat Williams. But who is beloved by me. Yeah. It's not like

the shadow. No, but like this, that's the movie that I'm talking about. That's the vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the Phantom. Exactly. The Phantom. The Phantom. Starring, guess what? Catherine Zeta Jones, I did own it. Oh, she's the female lead of that? I owned it on DVD. Great, great.

Fantastic. He must be the villain in it then. Yes. Or like the mentor? I imagine so. I can't even remember. Mentor turned villain like in Iron Man? Yeah. Yeah. That name begins.

So. In my heaviest Catherine days, I was like, this is not watchable. The one where he's the lead, it's a late 90s movie, and it's one, remember how in the late 90s, they would just, like, take a handful of, like, B-plus movie stars and just be like, here you are, you're in a weird setup and, like, go be in a- You're in a Lawrence Caston. You're in a haunted hotel, or you're on a boat, or you're in space, or- Is it like ghost ship? No, but it's not Not no Not ghost ship

Deep rising? Yes, deep rising Deep rising Yeah In this case they reached into the bucket And they pulled out Treat Williams Fomka Jansen

West Studi I know it as a Fomca Jans Anthony held Cliff Curtis Yeah Yeah yeah Jaimon Honson Honestly, good cast

Yes, honestly It's too bad Steven Summers wrote and directed it Otherwise Yeah Honestly Justice Forever would So much justice for Everwood

So much justice for Everwood absolutely. Yes. Even as a teen who is not a teen show watcher, I ever would, had enough parental drama that I wasn't interested in it. Because I was always like, what are the parents up to? I don't care about these kids. You were the person who was like, a 14-year-old. Sandy Cohen and Kirsten Cohen, what are they doing on the O.C.? I need to know. Yeah, yeah. This is what happens when your kids start watching judging Amy at like nine. Develop a lifelong passion for Tyne Daily. Perfect. Perfect. All right, Chris, who do you have for me. So, Jack Weston was nominated for a Comedy Globe alongside none other than for Silver

Streak, Mr. Gene Wilder. For you, I have Gene Wilder. Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Correct. Blazing saddles. Incorrect. What? Young Frankenstein. Correct. Silver streak? Incorrect. Your years are 1967 and 1989. 67 and 89. That's a lot of space in between. Oh, it sure is. The producers.

The producers is 67, correct. 89. Is that like see no evil, hear no evil, or something like that? Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. How do you even remember the title of this movie? Honestly, it was TV commercials. That was it. That title, like, stands out, too, so yeah. Yeah. Also, of the Gene Wilder Richard Pryor movies, why this... Why that one?

Why not Silverstein? Why, indeed. Why indeed? Yeah. There's no accounting for these things, and that's, I guess, why you guys get to have the game. 100%. That's why the game is fun. Christina Tucker, as always, just an absolute blast and a blessing to have you on our podcast.

This was an absolute delay. Thank you for coming back. And I'm not kidding. I will come back in midsummer. I have a quoting Shakespeare poster behind my podcast. 100%. I was a Shakespeare girl until I die, unfortunately. Slut for the Bard, that's me.

Put that in your bio next time. I'll introduce you that way. I mean, this production of Midsummer Night's Dream is famously set in Westchester. Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah. So a natural fit. On a house with a big porch. All right.

That's our episode, listeners. If you would like more, this head Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr. At this head, oscarbuzz.com. You can check out our Twitter account. at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz, our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Christina, where can our listeners see and hear more from you? You can see and hear more for me, depending on how often I deign to use the platform.

That is Twitter. At c underscore Grace T. at Twitter.com the website or X, I guess now. Who cares? No one calls it that. No one does. That's embarrassing if you do. And, yeah, that's where I usually, if I'm doing stuff, that's where you're going to find it. So come hang. Perfect. Chris File. What about you?

Twitter and Letterbox. Chris Fee File. That's F.E.I.L. I am those places as well at Joe Reed. Read spelled REID. You can also find me on Vulture.com making Cinematrix puzzles every weekday and also covering the Emmys and doing also fun stuff at Vulture. Put Rita on the grid. Oh, my God.

We actually should 100%. Yes. Please. I love Cinematrix. I love knowing that you're trying to trick me from... Always. I always try to trick. I go, Joe.

Hmm. Think about Joe's brain. Scary thing to do, yes. I know. I think less about Joe's brain in picking my answers to, like, find the smart answer to get myself more points. And more like, what if I don't play this will Joe yell at me for? Like, Winona Ryder, one word title movies, obviously I had to play Mermaid, Elsa. yelled that. Yeah. I did also

do Marmades for that reason. It's very true. All right, we would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star

review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So have a dream, a dream about us, baby. It's going to come true, baby, if you write us a nice review. That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. You live our review, baby.