This Had Oscar Buzz - 296 – Take Shelter

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

We return this week to one of the Oscar years we bemoan the most, 2011, to talk about Jeff Nichols’ Take Shelter. After Michael Shannon landed a surprise acting nomination for Revolutionary Road, it seemed he’d somewhat cornered the market on onscreen psychosis. In this film, he plays a rural father who begins to see apocalyptic visions … Continue reading "296 – Take Shelter"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Melan Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Say one word about this to me. I didn't want you worrying about it. Samantha.

Are you out of your mind? I'm doing this for us. I know you don't understand. You want to waste money on a stupid tornado shelter? Your mother was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in her 30s? I thought people were watching me and listening to me. They were just been telling me how strange Curtis has been acting lately. Is anyone seeing this?

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's still mad that our lives were used as the plot of a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz will be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here. to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed, and I'm here, as always, with my Category 5 storm. Chris file, hello, Chris.

Ooh, honey, I am at 9.7 on the Richter scale. I am... You are a flock of birds flopping from the sky. I am... Nine and a half inches of rain in two and a half hours. Oh, all right. All right, Maine West. I am some type of weather storm.

I am snow in August. I don't know what's happening. Joe, this episode's kind of... Is that a funnel cloud in your pocket? You're just happy to see me. I feel like that's the vibe you were giving me. Why don't you come up and global warm me up sometimes? I want somebody to splice the scene at the end of Take Shelter where they,

where Jessica Chastain looks and sees the two tornadoes forming over the water and then cut to Brandon Perea in the Twisters trailer going, It's Twans! Twans! I think we need to meme the final scene of this movie. Here we are, once again, starting... Starting right at the end. It's our trademark.

We need to meme it where it's like, oh, so Lady Gaga announced her seventh album, we need to superimpose the storm with L-C-7. Yes. I don't understand weather. I don't understand science, but... Well, don't look at it. to this movie to figure it out either, because I don't think this movie is playing with

pure meteorological facts and figures for you. Much like the visions that Michael Shannon has in this movie, I feel like I have been a storm upon this episode because our original record date, my power is out all day. Then today, my power alarm going off. Too much power. It was the other way, yeah. so like listener we're getting this episode through by the skin of our teeth that's true we are sliding it in between um electrical disasters and and chris's city we've entered biodome just to record this episode what was the deal on sunday was it a telephone pole got knocked over yes quite literally down the street from my building a power pole was knocked into the street by a car i would imagine Yeah, something happened in the middle of the night.

Yeah, okay. Somebody was like pushing on it really hard and got really mad. Yep. Holt came down the street and sort of punched it out. Hulk is very anti-this-had Oscar buzz because we have not done 2003's Hulk. It's true. It's true. Eric Banna, we hear you, we see you.

I realized this earlier and we haven't talked about it for either the notebook or let them all talk. Should we be, like, coming up with a pride month angle for each of our movies that we're doing for June? I mean, we've done it before. What was the, the pride angle for, like, the notebook is pretty easy. We literally did the motion picture pride. Right. But, like, the pride angle for the notebook is pretty easy because it's got Joan Allen saying, trash, trash, trash. The pride angle for Let Them All Talk.

I mean, obviously, Meryl, Diane Weist, and women speaking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anything with women speaking. What's the pride angle for take shelter? I guess it's an actress who slays because we're talking about like the Jessica Chastain year, you know, this is... We'll definitely get into that. Of the brick of Jessica Chastain vehicles that dropped in 2011, this was actually the first one that arrived because it played Sundance. Right. So everybody kind of knew this actress was coming because there were all these projects, most notably Tree of Life, which, you know, Terence Malik worked on for years.

before actually releasing it and, you know, she had multiple films playing at that can where Tree of Life One Palm Door, including this movie, which played Critics Week. Yeah, she was all over. Maybe it's Jessica Justane. She was, I guess. I mean, I guess that's all you need,

but also sort of metaphorically, the idea of the storm coming, right? The bracing yourself for, you know, I was watching this and I was like, oh, this was the first movie of the Trump era in 2011. Like it really feels, it really feels like for a movie that's about premonition and about, you know, all that. I look at it and it's just like, oh, wow, like this movie really got out ahead of that feeling of like paranoid dread that this is all coming to an end. You know, it's the first COVID movie. it's the first Trump movie it's in some ways it's the first like true modern era global warming movie because we've certainly had those biodome being among those you did not just put biodome on the list of global warming movie as as we are living in you know the end of the earth because it's getting too hot here um this is maybe the first movie at that i however i understand why

you would see this as like first Trump era movie I kind of saw it on this rewatch as the first we don't understand how to talk about allegory movies anymore because we'll definitely talk about genre when we talk when we get into the actual movie but like I really kind of bristled at the idea of this being classified as a horror movie but the idea of the idea of of, like, scare quotes, elevated horror and, you know, movies that are allegorical for trauma or, you know, anxiety, you know, things to do, you know, this movie, it feels like if, if it had come out a decade later, the conversation around this movie would be a million times more annoying than it was. though I do think people who struggle with the ending of this movie are also kind of annoying

because I think it's pretty clear I'm raising my hand Joe's raising his hand I'm raising my hand I struggle with the end of this movie so you struggle with it or you don't understand it because I think even the idea that the ending of this movie is ambiguous

is I don't see it I think it's pretty fucking clear what the intention of the ending of this movie is I don't I think Okay, we'll get into it eventually, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we want to at least put some distance between us in the end of the movie discussion.

We'll get into the movie before we get into the end of the movie for once in our lives. Right, no, but I think the Jessica Chastain talk will be interesting. We had our first Jeff Nichols movie already when we had Roxanna on to talk about mud, which is a movie I really, really like, and liked a lot better the second time I saw it. Take Shelter was a movie that kind of frustrated me the first time. I think it frustrated me less this time because I think I've mellowed out about the Michael Shannon thing over the years. I've sort of gotten a little more sanguine about the whole thing and just sort of I've, he's settled into a place in my, in my psyche.

Well, and we see so much less of him now than at the time that this movie came out. And I've actually managed to see him in enough sort of like, it's not. Not like he's got the widest range of any actor, you know what I mean? He still has a fairly, a fairly narrow range. But at the time, it was, I had seen him, he had gotten the Oscar nomination for Revolutionary Road. And, well, nocturnal animals hadn't happened yet, thank God. But also he had already, I believe, had already started on Boardwalk Empire by this point. where he's playing this kind of teeth gritting, edgy, very uncomfortable at all times sort of cop, right? Who's trying to bust the bootleggers and whatnot. And he was sort of pulling. My take on Michael Shannon was that he was always sort of pulling from the same bag of tricks. And this movie sort of dovetailed with it a lot, certainly the big freak out scene at the Lions Club.

breakfast or whatever, lunch, whatever meal they were having there. And the Oscar clip scene. The Oscar clip scene. And sort of all these, you know, moments where he's kind of terrifying and kind of, you know, you don't know whether he's going to flip out. And he's sort of on the edge of psychological break at all times. I'm like, okay, we've seen this kind of a lot from this guy. And so to have this movie sort of come out a couple years after Revolutionary

road and concurrent with Borough Empire and have people sort of like throwing all these Hosanas at him and him coming awfully close to an Oscar nomination for this performance. I was at the time really kind of like

ticked off by that. I'm less so now. I think it is a really good performance. I think Chastain's incredible. This is maybe still one of my top Jessica Chastain performances. I am going to dissent with you. I feel like we're going to be on two separate islands regards to Michael Shannon because I think especially

in this movie I think he's pretty terrific because like yes there is that Oscar clip scene that I think is maybe the first thing people would leap to where it's like it's this catharsis where he goes full crazy in that like you know lodge or whatever yeah but I think everything aside for if anything if there's a problem that I maybe have with the performance is that that scene feels divorced from the rest of it a little bit. But, yeah, I think he's really wonderful in this movie, and he's an actor that I generally enjoy. Well, I definitely came closer to your side of that with this viewing.

Like, I'm definitely a lot less sort of opposed to it. I'm still, we'll talk about the ending later, because I still sort of have my issues with it. As Jeff Nichols' movies goes, it's still not my favorite. But this was an early movie. my favorite. I think it's a lot of people's favorite. I would also push back that he was maybe close to getting a nomination for it, though, because I don't think he's got any of the major precursors. He got an indie spirit nomination. Yeah, but that, if you look at the way that category was shaking out and the way that, like, I think in hindsight we sort of take that Damien Bashir nomination for granted a little bit, but like that nomination never really felt secure until it actually happened. Gary Oldman wasn't secure until very late. Jerry Oldman was pretty much a surprise. And so I think like Michael Shannon was maybe not like positioned as a major contender, but I certainly think he was in the conversation up until the very end. And I remember up until that Oscar nomination morning, I remember him being like somebody that a lot of people predicted was going to make it. And I mean, I almost led this episode with like, how do we end up at 2011 so many times? We just like it feels like inevitably we are drawn to because I feel like I've made the, the state so many times of bad oscar year this is a bad year we don't like this oscar year and we

don't so what you know what is there to be done about it but like we're just going to keep talking about it we're just going to keep talking about you know how kind of shoddy this was and the fact that we now have to look back and be like oh like the artist was our best pick i like i don't even hate the artist that much. It's just a weird thing that, like, that was the movie that was undeniable that year as Best Picture. Jean-Du-Jardin was the undeniable best actor that year, even though I know there was a lot of talk of Brad Pitt or Clooney winning that year. I don't know, man. We just always wind up at 2011, and here we are again. So there's a deep bench at 2011, too, which is also.

So I think it contributes to the idea of it being a bad Oscar year is because there are so many other ways it could have gone on top of so many other better ways it could have gone. I think, I mean, who are we taking out of this best actor lineup to throw Michael Shannon in there? I'm taking out John Dujardin. I also should say I've never seen, is it, I always confuse the titles in a better life with a better life with a better. The movie's a better life. Damien Bashir is... A better life. But also the same year, wasn't there a Susanna Beer movie called In a Better World or something

like that? Is that the same year? I think it's the same year. I think so. The Susanna Beer is in a better world, but I don't remember what year it is. Okay. It was around this time, I figure. But anyway, I still have never seen that movie.

It's a Paul White's movie. Yeah. Conceivable? Yeah. Okay, so if we're doing, like, rankings and hierarchies of where things fall. Yes. Let's narrow it down to three because I don't think either of us is going to say the debt. It's a Chris White's movie.

You can never tell those two apart. You can't. One of them did a horror movie, right? One of them's always on blank check and the other one is never on blank check. There you go. Okay, let's say the three chastains are this the help and tree of Lord? life. Let's not say that the debt or Coriolanus are, or, you know, if we want to do a top five. Texas Killing Fields or Wild Salome, like, she just kept on coming. Well, Texas Killing Fields was not, like, because Chastain also won a lot of the big critics prizes this year.

Yes. She won national. Hold on. I have my spreadsheet. She won three of the four. She won New York, Los Angeles, and National Society. National Society, right. National Board of Review went to Shaline Woodley. What's so interesting about this supporting actress field is that Octavia Spencer wins all of the big precursors, but then the critics prizes are between Jessica Chastain and Shailene Woodley. Shailene Woodley, who was expected to be nominated for the descendants up until she wasn't. Like that was one where it really did feel like that kind of got like snuck out at the last second. and Melissa McCarthy and Janet McTeer for bridesmaids and Albert Knobbs, respectively, both, you know, kind of got in there. I mean, people talked about Melissa McCarthy, like she was the fifth place person. I think Janet McTeer was the fifth place.

I think they were probably fourth and fifth. I think Octavia Spencer and Jessica Chastain for the help were both definitely getting in there. I think Barinius Bejo for the artist was definitely getting in there. And then I think most people thought Woodley was a solid fourth or even third. You know what I mean? Like I think people did not think that Woodley. was really vulnerable there and that that fifth slot was going to be down to Melissa McCarthy or Janet McTeer or who were some of the other sort of like Bafta nominees Judy Dench for My Week with Marilyn and Carrie Mulligan for not shame but drive right yeah carry Mulligan was a critic's choice nominated for shame right right Janet McTeer though wasn't BAFTA nominated or Critics Choice nominated whereas Melissa McCarthy was like most McCarthy showed up

right I'm just I'm just giving you what I recall you know what I mean like if we can hindsight hindsight says a lot but I think at the time people were like because I think a lot of people were like I'm not going to trust the Oscar the Oscar voters to

nominate somebody from comedy everybody put their sort of cynical hat on there and and not until it actually happened there were some weird nominations this year man I can't talk about supporting actor again. Rank your, uh, your, the three chastains.

Those three chastains? Those three chastains, I like her in all of them. I think she's great. She's great in all. In all of them. I'm going to probably go take shelter number one, the help number two and tree of life number three. I would switch two and three, but of course. Shelter being number one is.

I would have put money on you, putting them in that order. Yeah. Of, of my one, two, and three? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, take shelter. it's just like, I was so glad to watch this performance, too, because, like, Jessica Chastain has become, like, one of the biggest names, uh, in actrism. And it was just nice to see,

or rewatch, rather, a performance of hers that didn't come with that type of baggage, that it's, like, it's just an actor doing their job. And I'm sure that she would say that all of her performances are just an actor doing their job. Here's what I will say. The Jessica Chastain who won an Academy Award for playing Tammy Faye Baker in the eyes of Tammy Faye is Jessica Chastain in The Help. Is Jessica Chastain in the help? Like, that is who, that is. Yes. So the fact that that's her Oscar nomination that year sort of makes some sense. I think the woman who's nominated for Take Shelter is probably a little bit closer to the Zero Dark 30, Jessica Chastain. But I think just in general is, I think, as she sort of like moved her career along and some you know would maybe say that she's gotten more broad as an actress I think she's sort of moved into she's a star now she's a she's more of a star than an actress which doesn't isn't to say that she's a bad actress but I think now she's sort of moved into this other realm where she's a star she can wear multiple hats

in a way that there's not as many names that can wear those same hats yeah um Because, like, to talk about one of our Patreon episodes, like, there's not many actresses that can do Molly's game and this, or... If you talk about between... Between Jessica Chastain and Michael Shannon, who's the more versatile actor, it's one million percent Jessica Chastain. I agree, though, I don't. I feel less inclined to slight Michael Shannon. I don't think it's a slight. I think there are... actors who are narrow and great in a narrow range. And I think there are actors who are great in a wider range. And I don't think it's necessarily a slight to say that about Michael Shannon.

I just, there are, there's a narrower range of roles that you find him believable in. Whereas I think it's the opposite about her. Yes, though, as she becomes a bigger star that is changing. Sure, it is. She probably could not play her take Shelton. her character now and have us, the audience, believe it. I think she could, but we would spend the whole movie waiting for like a thing where like she's secretly poisoning him or something. You know what I mean? Like we would be like

waiting for a turn somehow. Right. Or we would be waiting for the big scene in a way that might not be as satisfying as it is now where it's like this is basically a chamber dramba where her confrontation of him, you don't necessarily expect it because you think it's his movie. But ultimately, this movie reveals itself to be a movie about a marriage and about a family in a way that I find very moving. While also being about his anxieties and his, you know, psychosis and, you know. So without getting into the ending, though, you open the door to genre for a second. And before we do the plot description, I want to sort of get into the genre question because it seems like you feel like other people are putting genre descriptors on this movie that are misleading or that are missing the point or inaccurate in some way.

Whereas I feel like this movie hits a lot of genres and hits a lot of genres intentionally in that it is a drama. It is a, you know, sort of as you said, like a chamber drama about a marriage. It's also a sort of paranoid psychological character study. I think I would probably stop short of seeing thriller. But it's definitely a psychological, you know, a movie of sort of psychological torment. I think there is intentional tension throughout the whole movie as to what's actually going on, what is sort of becoming of him. I think there is a, there's, you know, There is allegory to this movie. There is definitely symbolism to this movie to what's going on. And then when you get to the end, it becomes like one or two other different genres. And so I feel like there is, I think that sort of shows Nichols off in actually a really good light that he can make this movie that sort of functions on a couple different levels right up until.

you know, that last like 10 minutes. Mm-hmm. See, I'm much more comfortable and, like, on your wavelength, I'm much more comfortable with, like, the film as you describe it, where it's playing with genre or uses pieces of genre. But I've seen enough people call this movie a horror movie or a disaster movie. That's because of how it ends, though. I think that that's not true.

I don't think it's so easy to categorize it as that. And I don't think to just call it a horror movie probably sets up an audience who hasn't seen the movie for a, for a movie that it's not. Well, especially when you've got Michael Shannon sort of like, you know, bug-eyed and gritting his teeth or whatever, where you're sort of like, if you expect it to be a horror movie, then you're expecting him to sort of snap at some point. Right, right. And I mean, he does snap at some point. I mean, like, snap and like kill his, like, start chasing. his family through a hedge maze with an axe. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or he kills Shea Wiggum. Right, right. Or did he, you know what I mean? It's one of those like, did he really? I'm sorry, I just watched last night for the, I'm watching all the Schumacher's for the screen drafts. So I just watched the number 23 last night.

And so I watched Take Shelter a couple nights ago and then number 23. So I have like a good version of this about two days farther back in my memory from a bad version of this thing where it's like what is real, what is not real. I'm going crazy. Am I going going to snap and kill my family? So like that kind of stuff is more prominent in my mind of like this piece of shit movie that is so bad. Take 23 shelters. Jim Carrey in that movie I genuinely feel like it's trying to do a Michael Shannon kind of a thing. And it's just brother, it's not working, my friend. Like, don't know what to tell you. Um, but anyway, so let's sort of inch towards, inch our way.

You are not Michael Shannon and vaccines do work, sir. God, is he one of those? Good Lord. He is one of those. Well, he was married to Jenny McCarthy, right? Yes. I think this was like after they separated, though. Anyway, yeah, but they're still co-parenting, right?

They have like, or no, do they have kids together? Maybe not. Maybe all her kids are with Donnie Wahlberg. Isn't it weird that Jim Carrey and Donnie Wahlberg probably, like, interact? Co-parenthood? like yes or something i don't know it's weird Hollywood every once in a while when you take a step back and like just imagine like

the people in Hollywood who are at each other's like kids birthday parties you know what I mean where it's like a kid's birthday party and it's like celebrity in laws and whatnot it's just weird it's just weird to think about you guys anyway um Chris why don't you tell our wonderful listeners why they should if they are not already be a part of our Patreon.

Why should you sign up for our Patreon? Because naturally, if you're here, you want more of us. When you're here, your family. Maybe should we have that as our tagline for the Patriot? No one's ever used that before. It's just that. We'll do an excursion. We'll go to Olive Garden and Taco Bell so you could get

a Baja Blast. They should serve Baja Blast Olive Garden. That would be... I'd never leave. Endless Super Bowl. salad and breadsticks and blueberry sodas. Uh-huh. 100%.

Okay, so, listener, when you're here, your family, but when you are signed up for turbulent brilliance, our Patreon, you're more than just family. This is like a two-family house. You're in the house. Like, we live... A house within a house? Yes. See, now that seems creepy to me, but like, go on.

I'm intrigued. And listen, how much does it cost to live in that house? It's only $5 a month. Rent is $5 a month over at this had Oscar buzz turbulent. Be that. Eric Adams. Fuck you, Eric Adams. I don't even live there, and I could say that. What are you going to get when you come live in this house?

You're going to get two bonus episodes a month, the first of which, which drops on the first of the month, we call exceptions. These are discussions about movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric that managed to score some nominations. Most recently, this month, we talked about Madonna's W.E. Bet you forgot that W.E. got a costume design nomination. It sure did. We've also talked about...

For all those pearls. All those pearls just getting ripped off of necks and bouncing on the ground. Filks. Uh, masterpieces. Uh, we've also talked about films like the mirror has two faces, Vanilla Sky, Australia. Listeners have chosen episodes on Molly's Game, The Lovely Bones. We've talked about movies like Pleasantville.

We're going to be doing another listener's choice episode soon. You want to come over and check those out. The second bonus episodes you're going to get every month, we call it an excursion. It drops on the 15th. These are deep dives into Oscar Ephemeral we love to obsess about on this show, like EW Fall Movie Previews. This month, I believe it would have been actually last week, actually. We recapped the 1999 Independent Spirit Awards

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Very good. There's a bedroom waiting for you in this house. Yes. It's tiny, but, you know, you're only paying. It's not tiny. This is like queen of Versailles. Like we need. Oh, okay.

Was this the year of Queen of Versailles? I feel like this is around Queen of Versailles. 2012. Okay, so close. Close. You know there's supposed to be a Queen of Versailles musical? Honestly, that would be good. It's going to be good.

I think someone, like, famous is attached to it, and right now I just forget who it is. Okay. I'm like, that's going to be perfect for a musical. Yeah. Not like, well, speaking of this month, the notebook, much as I, don't like to malign Ingrid Michelson. I like her. I do too. I know. I know. But everything that I've

heard about the notebook was not that good. We don't... I'm just going to say it. I know it's Pride Month. In Pride Month, I think we can talk about gay culture that we need to get off our back. We don't need a death becomes her musical. We don't. Okay, but have you seen the clips from it, though?

It looks... I heard the songs were bad. Everything that I've seen of it makes me want to see it. Also, the fact that it's Megan Hilty and Jen Samar, like, I don't... I'd rather see a two-wang-foo musical than... Well, sure, but... Granted, the Priscilla musical didn't work. I had a good time at it.

I'm excited for Death Becomes her. I'm going to say it. I don't think we need it. Well, we don't need any of these musicals based on movies. Like, that's like... But, like, a genuinely good idea, like a Queen of Versailles musical, that's a good idea. I think we... I think... Sure. I'm excited for that one, too, but I think if we're talking about movies that we need, I think we don't need that anymore than we need it, that becomes a musical. Who does the score for the Take Shelter musical? Oh, God.

The Avid Brothers. Trent Reznor, but without Atticus Ross. Just Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor in 9-inch Nails mode, just like full industrial, like, doom and gloom. I want to shelter you like an animal. Well, yeah, I mean, too true. Okay. Now, Chris, that you have, um, enticed our listeners to join the Patreon. Now it is upon you to prepare yourself, crack those knuckles, limber up, and get ready to give a 60-second plot description of Take Shelter.

While I, or after I, I should say, give the basics of this movie. We are talking this week about Take Shelter written and directed by Jeff Nichols. Jeff Nichols, who has a movie coming out kind of as we speak, the bike riders, right? This week? I'm excited for it. I almost got a chance to get into screening of it while I was in New York last time, and then plans changed, which I was bummed out about because I've been looking forward to this movie for a while. And also, we are in our summer of Mike Feist, and I know he's got a small role in this.

Yeah, I have a feeling his role is probably small. Because he's not on the poster. He's not one of the posters. It's mostly what? It's Jody Comer, Austin Butler, Tom Hardy. And Michael Shannon, because Michael Shannon's in everything. definitely. Yes, he is. He 100% is. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm ready and waiting for Jody Comer to arrive in movies.

It feels like everybody missed the boat on the last duel, a movie we will definitely talk about it. Yeah. Maybe we'll do it this year. Um, we should. We got gladiator dose coming. Yeah, we do. Always good to talk about Ridley. Um, as if we haven't enough, our most, Most discussed director, Ridley Scott. And he will continue to be so. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for this movie, too. Here's the thing about Jeff Nichols.

Good filmmaker. Good filmmaker. You know, I don't think that he's made movies that a ton of people get excited about, but I've never left a Jeff Nichols movie saying that was bad. I don't think all of them entirely work, something like Midnight Special, even elements of loving. Like, I appreciate what loving is going for. Speaking of Midnight Special, though. Maybe it needs to move the needle a little more. One of the unadulterated successes of Midnight Special was that score by, is it Jeff Wingo?

The score on Take Shelter, fuck it, David Wingo. David Wingo is the composer for, I'm assuming. The Take Shelter score is. The Take Shelter score is so good. Like, in a way that I did not clock, I think, the first time that I saw it. And the Midnight Special score is a little. also rad as fuck. So, like, that is, this is a name to sort of, like, you know, keep an eye on. I haven't really seen him. What else has he done? I'm going to do a quick little sojourn into David Wingo's homography. What has he done lately? He's doing the bike rider score. He did the score for

the report. He did the score for, uh, Briggsby Bear. Well, he works with, he works with Jeff Nicholsy guys. He works with David Gordon Green. He works with Jeff Nichols. Although he didn't do the Halloween scores, although he did do the X-V-Believers score. But, yeah, go take a listen to the Take Shelter score. It is tremendous. I love it. I would also shout out cinematographer Adam Stone because this movie, for a movie that definitely did not cost a lot of money. It looks very impressive.

This movie looks great. Looks very impressive. Yep. Totally. The visual effects are really solid in this movie for, I mean, I'm sure most of the budget went to those visual effects, but, you know, in the limited use that they are in the film, like, deserving of the nomination, those storms look actually real. Yeah, oh, totally.

Yep. A simple task. All right. Written and directed by Jeff Nichols, starring Michael Shannon, Jessica Chastain, Shea Wiggum, Katie Mixon, Ray McKinnon. By the way, this is our fifth Ray McKinnon movie. Like, we are on the verge of doing a six timers for Ray McKinnon. I fucking love that, by the way.

I'm so down for... You know what, Ray McKinnon, good actor. No, I'm sorry. This is our fourth. We have a fifth one coming up soon, spoiler. We have a fifth one next week, his fifth one. We're doing back-to-back Ray McKinnons. Maybe the first one in July just needs to be a Ray McKinnon movie.

Honestly, our 300th episode is going to be a Ray McKinnon movie so we can do Ray McKinnon six timers for us. So Ray McKinnon for two hours. He was previously, of course, in mud, among other things. Ray McKinnon, Lisa Gay-Hamilton, who I remember from, of course, The Practice, plays the counselor in this. Kathy Baker. This is an and Kathy Baker. I love Kathy Baker so goddamn much. I know. I forgot that she was the mom in this movie because she only has one scene. And I'm sure that scene is in the trailer, so you think you're going to get more Kathy Baker.

But Kathy Baker rules. Kathy Baker rules. Even though she is the actress who won the Emmy, I just reminded myself, of that won the Emmy of the year that Claire Daines was nominated for my so-called life. And I think that sort of put her behind the eight ball with me for a little bit. But I love Kathy Baker. How could she be behind the eight ball after she gifted you with that performance in Edward Cisorhands? We, I think, this is my Pride Month stance in this episode. We as a gay culture, don't talk about Kathy Baker and Edward Cisorhands enough because.

Make that your cause-seleb. Yeah. Form it it. I believe it. Okay. For Ambrosia Salad in that movie. Listen, who wouldn't want to taste of that ambrosia salad? Also, Robert Longstreet in this film premiered January 24th, 2011 at the Sundance Film Festival, as Chris also already mentioned.

Then it played Cannes in May. It played TIF in September and finally opened in limited release on September 30th, 2011. Chris, I have my little stopwatch right here. Here we go. Are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of Take Shelter? Ready as I'll ever be All right, get going All right, so we meet Curtis

He is a He works construction He lives in Ohio He has his wife Samantha They have a daughter Who is deaf And or at least partially deaf And he is having these visions

Of apocalyptic things happening to his family Largely weather related Or climate related Or there's like bird formations happening Anyway, he has this increasing anxiety that, like, is derailing his life. He stopped showing up for work, basically.

He gets the idea that he is going to build a storm shelter to keep his family safe, and he takes out a loan that he doesn't tell his wife about. She eventually finds out about it because he's not going to work. And this puts their daughter's cochlear implant surgery in danger. And then they talk about it. And he freaks out very publicly at, like, the public lodge. And then there's a tornado one night. They all go into the shelter and he is, for a second, you think he's going to trap his whole family in this shelter.

By the way, his mom's a schizophrenic and he might think that he is turning into his mother as well. You think he's going to trap his family in there, but Samantha convinces him, no, we're going to leave the shelter and you can trust me on this and then they leave and everything is fine. And then he gets treatment and they talk about it all as a family and they move forward and maybe there's a storm, but probably not. what the metaphor is, is just that the family is reunited and safe because they are a family again. 30 seconds over, but, you know, not bad. All right, let's talk about this ending. So you are of the opinion that it is clear as oily rain that this is a hallucination or a dream or something at the end. this is not really happening this

giant apocalyptic storm that this is you see the family they're on like a beach house they're on like vacation what did they say Myrtle Beach conceivably at Myrtle Beach

considering you know what a vacation destination would be in reality for this family well they said in Myrtle Beach they said every year we go to Myrtle Beach everybody in Ohio goes to Myrtle Beach that's the vibe sister and

you see storm clouds in the distance and he takes their daughter from the beach onto the port not just storm clouds uh twin twisters twin twisters and also like a tsunami forming like a tsunami muse shut the fuck up first of all um it's just you see two twin twisters and tsunami muse twirling between. But then the motor oil rain starts happening and he's not the one who experiences it. She is. Now, yes. So obviously this is across Jessica Chastain's face, meanwhile, for the first time in any of these visions or any time that something apocalyptic is happening, all three members of the family are in the same shot. Or the first time of the whole movie and it's the last shot of the movie. And from a filmmaking perspective, like we get the POV.

of somebody else who isn't him. We get her POV. We get the kids POV. So this is filmed differently than the other, I think with the other sort of nightmares that he has in the earlier parts of the movie, it becomes easier and easier throughout the movie to know that these are nightmares. By the time you get to like the second or third one, Nichols is no longer attempting to fool you that you are experiencing real life, right?

That is, this is, it's fairly obvious. So the movie opens with one of these visions, too, right? Like, yeah. So the idea of fooling you or is it real or not starts from the very beginning because it's one of the first things you see in the movie. But by the time we're getting to like, you know, the birds dropping out of the sky and whatever, like those scenes are very, very. clearly not happening. The scene where he walks into the kitchen and she's looking at the knife and whatever, all of that stuff is very clearly from the beginning of those scenes, not really happening. So now we have downshifted back to a scene where we are not supposed to know

whether this is really happening or this is not happening, but the rules have now shifted. The rules of these scenes, and when I say rules, I mean sort of like the cinematic rules of this of these types of scenes have now shifted where we're getting chastain's perspective we're getting a more sort of a multi-level as you as you mentioned like all three of the the family members are in the same shot so we are being led we are being presented with a sort of visual invitation to believe that this is actually happening for real now if that's the case if this would be happening for real. Then all of a sudden, the movie becomes a different movie. The movie becomes a movie where this man has been having premonitions, where the apocalypse has descended,

where this, you know, all this, all of these very kind of textbook onset of paranoid schizophrenia symptoms are now instead, he's being justified by them. So, on some level or another, however you want to interpret this ending, Nichols has decided to break the rules or the genre or whatever you want to call it of the previous parts of the movie. Now, you're allowed to break rules when you are a filmmaker. No one's going to send you to jail. I'll say the rule that I think is being broken here. I'll just give me like half a second to just like sort of wrap up.

I just want to bench it. Definitely. But like you're allowed to. to break rules when you are a filmmaker. So it's not like this is doing something, that Nichols is doing something wrong. But he is presenting something very new to the movie in its last few seconds. And both times that I've seen this movie now, I've wrestled with like how effective I find that. And whether I find that on one level, either a little too cute, a little too Twilight Zone to be like, well, actually, it was all really happening, first of all, or a little

too, um, a little too hands off and a little too, now you've got to decide. I'm not going to tell you, here's all, I'm giving, give you all this information. You've got to decide. And maybe a little, um, not timid, but a little, like, I think maybe a strong, no, I'm not going to say a stronger filmmaker, because I think Jeff Nichols is a very strong filmmaker, and he is in this movie as well. But I think there's a way to interpret this movie where he's being a little too hands-off at the end. But you interpret this as it being most definitely not really happening. Oh, under no circumstances is what we're watching in the final scene in this movie happening. I think, I mean, like, I don't want to be a dick, but I think if you watch that

final scene after all of the movie before it and you're like oh this is about a man who does have premonitions and this is really happening i don't i don't understand how you get that from that movie well but my answer to that is then why does why have the have the parameters of these these nightmares changed in this scene here's the rule that i think is broken in this final scene. And I think it's done intentionally and effectively. Though, like, Nichols is somewhat hands off on, like, however people want to interpret this movie, it's all fine. It's just the thing that's, he, the thing that he says is important is the thing that we've highlighted that, like, the family is restored. They're together. They're together. Yes. I think it's incredibly crucial that Samantha is not scared in this scene. She is confident. She is not terrified by what she sees. Samantha's the wife. Yes. There is. there is the vibe that they can handle this.

They're going to face this head on. Meanwhile, what's literally happening in the real world is he's getting mental health care. He's less terrified as well. He looks at her and he sees that she's seeing what he's seeing so he is less scared. So this sounds to me, though, that you are reading this as pure metaphor.

I think the rule that it is. is broken is all of the other storm scenes are visions, and this is a metaphor or an allegory for this family being restored. Because what is going on in this family? The family is being torn apart by him not being open and honest with what he's going through. She spends so much of the movie not understanding what he's doing. She thinks that he's being erratic with their finances, with his job, with their kid. You know, it's two completely different experiences. She doesn't realize until very late in the movie, he's having a breakdown. He is collapsing under the stress of caring for a disabled child. The concerns that he's going to turn into his mother who

is mentally disabled. The, you know, genuine climate concerns. But also whatever he's inherited. from his mother, too. Like, that also, like, he also just may be chemically, chemically heredititarily prone to paranoid schizophrenia. And when you're a parent, not only are you going to experience that, but you could pass it on to your child. Your child could have to care for you in the way that you've had to care for your mentally unwell parent. It is, I think all of his. psychological turmoil is just like right there in the allegory of this movie.

On top of like the visual language of all these visions and the final scene, like the color grading is different. Like it's a different color palette than the rest of the movie. So I don't understand how you can watch that final scene and say, yes, this is as real as the scene of his breakdown or as real as the scene. Everything about that last scene. Where she confronts him. Right.

everything about that last scene is filmed differently. So it's not that I disagree with you in that line, but like at the risk of being a literalist, and I know that like between you and I, I'm the literalist and you're the less literalist, and that's fine. At the risk of being a literalist, if that last scene is pure metaphor,

what is, where are the people? Where are they really? What is really happening? What's really happening is he is in, Have we just, have we just ceased following their story and now we are watching a like, a little fantasia, a little, a little fantasy story that Jeff Nichols has decided to give us? No, I think we're watching a representation of the family being restored while going through the difficulty of their life. And I see all that. It's a representation of that because, like, the movie ends when he goes into treatment.

And like when he goes into treatment, you know, he has his wife by his side. And they have the very scary thing of he's going to have to leave his family for a little bit to be able to get the care that he needs so that he can ultimately, in the long run, care for him. If you were to tell me then that this is what, this is how he dreams now. This is the, this is the tenor that his nightmares have started to take and that he's still dreaming of the storm coming. But in his dream now, he's not alone. He's with his wife. He's with his daughter. They can face it together.

I'm on board with that. And because of, and because that has changed, the visual and presentational language of the dream sequences has also changed. I'm on board with all of that. All I'm saying is, that's exactly what I think. Okay. Well, then I'm bored. All you had to say was it's in his head.

Because for me, I'm just like, I need that. I need that grounding or else because what I was hearing from you was just like, oh, this is just a metaphor. It's just there. Grounded to nothing, tethered to nothing, floating out there in a dream ballet space for Jeff Nichols to just sort of like float on out to us. Also, I do think, I mean, it's right that like I'm very on the record of saying people's interpretation of the things they watch is too literal.

But also, all of the examples that I'm using of why I think this movie is what it is are literal examples like they're literally all in the frame together um so like i'm also interpreting this in a way that i feel is literal i ultimately think that you are right but i ultimately think that you are right there is enough of a nagging thing for me of because nichols very much is allowing the audience to make of this last scene what they will he's allowing for the interpret of, oh, he was right all along, this was coming all along, that to me would break this whole movie. Oh, yes. I mean, like, if, if I don't think the movie is reaching for that at all, though, I mean, I think Jeff Nichols allows people. He knows what he's doing.

He knows what he's doing. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It helps this movie if people are talking about it, in a way, even if it's confused or whatever. Yeah. I feel like that's less of. the movie's problem, because I don't think, I don't think the movie ever pulls any punches in a way that makes us think, well, maybe he is a premonitionist, or if that's even a word. You know, he is having these. He's, he's Nicholas Cage and knowing. Is knowing just the dumb, dumb version of Take Shelter? Is that what's, isn't that what is it? know and come out like before this movie too and we're digging on this movie to I think that this is this is an audience problem not a not even a not it's a marketing problem because when you sit down in a movie theater the trailers come up before whatever movie you're

seeing and you get the take shelter movie you are asked to buy that this movie could be about a guy who is having visions of the end of the world of things that are going to happen to the world. But I don't think that the movie says that at all. But if you're an audience member who already maybe has that in your head, then maybe you're asking those questions, and then maybe the ending is confusing. Well, except for the fact... You watch that trailer, and it's like, yes, I do think that that is a fact.

But even if you haven't seen the trailer, though, there are parts of the movie that are nudging you towards horror, right? there's the scene where he's looking out the window and all of a sudden someone shoots into frame. There's the scene, there's later that scene where he's sort of like, where all the people are sort of like banging at the doors, where the furniture levitates from the floor. You know what I mean? Like those are all horror elements. Those are all, you know, this world is not what I thought it was. Something's coming to get us.

There is something stalking me. Like those are all intentional. There's also the vision, though, where chastain's character. is not an antagonist, but she's the scary thing in the vision. And that comes at a point where there is the first tension in their relationship. Well, they established the thing where when he has a nightmare of someone attacking him, he then becomes afraid of them in real life, where he puts the dog outside after the dream where the dog attacks him. He stops working with Shea Wiggum after the dream where Shea Wigam attacks him.

And so he has the dream where, and we don't see the point, I think it's also interesting that Nichols stops these visions before, after the dog thing, stops them before we actually see the part where she takes that knife that she's looking at and attacks him. But we know that that's why he's afraid of her now. That's why he recoils when she tries to touch him. And she doesn't. Well, and not seeing those things, I do think creates him. at least a tension between the audience and the protagonist of can we trust him or not.

Exactly. And I think you have not only a more interesting relationship with the movie as an audience member in like trying to figure out how much you trust his perception, his psychosis, or, you know, maybe he has these visions or. you know yeah but then also makes the ultimate place that this movie arrives with the family so much more rewarding and so much more emotional in a way that i think jeff nichols has like a half in half out relationship with how emotional he wants his movies to be and i think that this i think is his best movie and it's probably to me the one that i think has the most emotional impact but like I think this is a movie that's comfortable being having that tension between the audience of what is real what is not and what do we think about this character and I think that makes it a better movie yeah well I don't disagree with you there um this movie for not ultimately ending up with any Oscar nominations this movie got a lot of play in award season, just sort of throughout.

There was a lot of material to sort of sift through when I'm preparing our outline this week. It was a super well-reviewed movie, like in the 90s on Rotten Tomatoes. It didn't win any prizes at Sundance, but it goes to Cannes for Critics Week. It wins the version of the grand prize that exists for Critic Week won an additional prize from, I think it's some sort of publication there with a French name

that I'm not even going to attempt. It also won the Frupresky prize for Critics Week and it won something at Venice, right? Didn't Jessica win something at Venice that year? I think they gave her because the debt was at Venice

for sure. I think they probably gave her some type of fancy prize sponsored by a perfume. I think that's, I think that's exactly what it is. And has a billion of them. But at this point, Nichols had already been nominated for an Independent Spirit Award for Shotgun Stories in 2007.

He was nominated for the Cassavetti's Award, which was the best film under $500,000, I believe. And Michael Shannon, as I mentioned, was a supporting actor nominee in 2008, loses to the posthumous win for Heath Ledger for the Dark Knight. That was a shockeroo nomination. that one, like, no one was predicting on nomination morning. On nomination morning, no, although I remember his name was sort of in the soup of it towards the beginning of that season because of the nature of his. Well, he had just been in Bug the year before.

And so I at least thought he was so impressive in that. Bug is another piece of the puzzle of the, these are the Michael Shannon rolls, right? That's another paranoid psychotic, right? Like, you wonder why by the time Take Shelter comes along. I'm like, yes, we know. We know you can do this. But this was the big

chastain year. So she has Take Shelter, which premieres at Sundance. Tree of Life premieres at Cann. The help does not play any festivals, but opens in August. The debt also opens in August, but had played

Tiff the year before. Wild Salimate. Now, Wild Salome is the doc you, the fake commentary, and Salome is the movie that they're making in the fake documentary? I, I've never figured it out. I've not seen either one of them. There's a movie of both. One of them

played, and then they, like, both eventually played the quad. Is this Al Pacino in, like, looking for Richard mode? Is that sort of what's going on? I think so, yeah. Pacino was having some fun around this time. This was when he was doing a lot of theater, and, um, I should watch both of those at some point. But this also sort of contributed to the idea this and then the fact that she did the disappearance of Eleanor Rigby and all the sort of different things for that.

Like she was up for a lot of, you know, interesting types of filmmaking. And so that sort of contributed to she really did seem at this point like she was the actress's actress. It's so funny that the, that she ends up winning an Academy Award for, I'm, I'm going to say, a clown performance, parenthesis, complimentary, that she ends up winning for that, you know what I mean? That movie is very lucky to have her performance in it, because I don't think Chastain is bad. I think she's maybe not the perfect fit for the role,

but I don't think. I think she's pretty good. She's fine. I enjoyed the movie. I would not have come close to giving her an Oscar for it, but still. No, no, no, no. And I don't think she's bad, but the movie is better because of her. Yes. Anyway, Texas Killing Fields also premieres at Venice and then opens in October. And then finally, the Ray Fines directed Coriolanus adaptation played TIF. And then was one of those movies that, like, opened for qualifying purposes at the end of the year, but didn't open for real until like mid to late January in 2012. So all told...

And Coriolanus got the notices more for Vanessa Redgrave. Right. But all told, she's in. seven movies in some way or another in 2011. And this was coming from nowhere, like genuinely nowhere. So all of a sudden, straight out of Juilliard, sort of, except that she hadn't, it wasn't right after Juilliard, right? It was kind of. I don't know if it was right after Juilliard, but I do remember that it's because of Tree of Life. However, she landed that role in Tree of Life. And then immediately she has the

this Terrence Malick movie on her resume that no one has seen that spends years in post-production. Yeah. But the fact that she has a Terrence Malick movie on her resume, which very few people can say, is like this insane boost before the movie is even seen by anyone. Without getting too far into it, because we don't want to make this a three-hour episode. Quickly, your thoughts on The Tree of Life as a movie and also chest dance performance in it. I love that movie. I used to be a money ball voter in 2011.

I think I have settled into being a tree of life voter. For like best picture of the year? Yes. I don't know if it would be my personal number one, but of that best picture lineup without a doubt. I think it's interesting that it is the, you know, modern Malik that people settle on as being the one. Great. It was the Palm Door winner. It's sort of, it was the Best Picture nominee.

Yeah. But it comes through this vessel of, you know, it's a childhood story. It is someone growing up and then reflecting on, you know, the journey they've gone from impressionable young person to jaded adult. And, you know, it's this basically. memory poem where the visuals are obviously incredibly striking and the structure of the movie is very fluid and, you know, not for everybody because of that. But I find it a very powerful movie. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did. So I think that the chastain year, obviously with, you know, setting aside the fact that that's what got her probably cast in a lot of these other things. I think the chastain year doesn't really happen without the Tree of Life. I think the nomination, for the help. Maybe it doesn't even happen with, if not for the tree of life, even though she is, say what you will about the help. And I will also. But like, she is a jolt of piss and vinegar in that movie. Like, she's having a ton of fun.

I think, I think it's twofold. I think she is of a piece with the movie. So, yes, it is broad. Yes, it is so, it is on the gauche side. But she also, is the thing that you're saying, that she gives it a different energy that ultimately it probably needs. But I think the reason why it comes down to the help between these three performances, it's as simple as it's the biggest performance of the three. And I think, you know, if you're

holding these three performances up to each other, the help becomes more impressive, especially for like this debut performer who has this insane year coming out of nowhere until you know we're suddenly seeing them you put you stack these three performances up together and the help looks even better because it's like it's range i could see how the person who does that tree of life performance does the take shelter performance right but then the help performance right is this like broad comedic role so it looks even more impressive i will say i would not have been surprised if she had been nominated for the Tree of Life instead, because that's a best picture nominee as well. It's a best director nominee. And people really liked it. You know what I mean?

And actors aren't going to respond to Tree of Life. And actors vote for the nominee reform. I don't know if that's necessarily, I mean, certainly they didn't nominate any of the performances from the Tree of Life. But I don't know if certainly actors sure seem to love with Terrence Malik and certainly seemed to love working with him for the decade that followed the Tree of Life, where he made, you know, seven movies that starred 1,000 actors in total, even if only half of them showed up in the final cut. But it always surprised me, particularly given, here we go, me talking shit about the 2011 Oscars again,

given how weak that supporting actor field was that Brad Pitt didn't get a double nomination that year for lead for Moneyball and supporting for the Tree of Life, especially, you could very easily have bumped out Max von Seedow for extremely loud, incredibly close. Kenneth Branagh for My Week with Marilyn. Nick Nolte, certainly, for Warrior. I watched Moneyball again the other day as I was like unpacking. I had moved my office. And so I was sort of putting my stuff back in where it went in my office and I was watching Moneyball as I did. Jonah Hill's really good in that movie. I still, I think it's a good movie. It still sort of eludes me where people get greatness from. But like, I think it's a real.

it's a real fun movie. And I think genuinely, the supporting performance I probably would have nominated would have been Philip Seymour Hoffman, who I think is super great. But like Jonah Hill's really good in that movie. I'm into it. I still don't quite get greatness out of it. But I don't know. That's that's a me. That's a me thing. You would think the Aaron Sorkin script about a sport would have been super up my alley. But I don't know. I was a little bit let down. Another movie that works better as allegory for me, because it's as much about baseball as it is about anything else. I think part of it may have been, though, is that, like, if you were a sports fan, the whole moneyball ethos had been such a big story and had already sort of been, like, pounded into your head for years and years and years. Like, the novelty of that as an allegory had kind of worn off for us. the idea that like you don't have to spend big to get the most out of this you can sort of you can game the system you can find your you know your way to nuts and bolts your way to a championship caliber team like that kind of a thing like that had already been kind of digested by the sports watching community so maybe that was part of it too i want sports watching community is probably not the target audience for that movie oddly enough surprisingly, yes, because I think the people who most respond to Moneyball are people who Sad boys and girls. I don't think it's quite that, although the sad boys and girls did.

Sad boys, girls, and days. Those people responded to it more than I would have expected to, but I think the sweet for that movie are like, people who aren't psychos about sports, but know enough about sports to really, like, get the sort of poetry of that. I think there's that, like, genuinely, this was a movie made. for the ringer, like genuinely, as it's those people who are like art and also like sports, but with a little bit of a jaundiced eye towards sports. Anyway, I want to get into like the depth and breadth of Jessica Chastain's awards journey through this season because it is a ton. We mentioned she wins the LA, and it's not only the what she wins, but what she wins for, right? Because she wins the LA Critics Prize for six movies, for Take

shelter, tree of life, the help, the debt, Texas Killingfields, and Coriolanus. Some of these were for movies. I guarantee you there were people who voted for her for L.A. film critics who did not see all six of those movies. You know what I mean? The only one they omitted was Wild Salome. But like, did you all really see Texas Killing Fields?

It didn't get a theatrical release. Well, there's that. Texas Killing Fields, I think, got a theatrical. Yeah, Wild Salome did not show up in a theater until like, like, 10 years after this or something like that. Yeah, play in like the fucking quad. Yeah. Did they really play theater? But anyway, so LA film critics were, like, mentioned it all.

They were Bethany Frankl, mentioned, you know, do all of it. New York film critics and National Society of Film Critics, and those two have, like, the membership for those, both societies sort of overlaps greatly. So it's not surprised that they're more in lockstep. They limited it to the three that you mentioned, take shelter, the help, and the Tree of Life. So she wins both of those there on route to an Oscar, nomination for the health. But, like, that's not the half of it, right? She wins, oh, this is the award she won at Venice. The Gucci Award for Women in Cinema at Venice. So you are

exactly... That is going on the Thopsapurlative. 100% for next year. The Gucci Award for Women in Cinema. I'm opening that spreadsheet just to make sure that it gets in there. The Gucci Award for Women in Cinema. Oh, we'll have a time with that. We will. The Independent Spirit Awards were really, really into this movie nominated for five. It wins the producers award is also nominated for best feature, best director, best male lead, all three of which go to the artist. God damn it. Like, I understand that the artist is technically an independent film, but like use your fucking heads sometimes independent spirit awards. The independent spirit awards in the teens were kind of the worst. And I admit that

as somebody who really genuinely loves the independent spirit awards. And I think they've kind of pulled out of that tailspin a little bit. But, like, in the teens was like, this was the dregs of, we're just going to nominate. Chris, I see that look on your face. I cannot have you do it again. Oh, I was typing. That's my I'm typing. Okay, okay.

What were you saying? I'm talking about the Independent Spirit Awards being the worst in the 20 teen, so I know you're about to talk about how you can buy your way into the membership, and that's why. They're worse in the 2020s. They're not worse in the 2020s. They're absolutely not. Whatever you can say about them. But it's all pretty bad.

It's all... It's not as good as it was in, like, the golden era. But, like, it's not worse than, like, they had, like, six years in a row where they were in lockstep with the Oscars. I need someone to explain to me, like, not only, like, I'm a five-year-old, but I'm a stupid five-year-old, how the artist is an American production. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. No.

But this was one of the problems with them as they would... as the years would go on, is they would get, like, more and more permissive just to sort of, like, pad their stats with the big awards movies of that year. But anyway, whatever, rant for another time. I do think that the artist was filmed in, like, American studio lots, but, like, I get, I mean, I guess. But, like, that is a not, that is, yeah, whatever, whatever, we can't. So you look at the other nominees, best feature, nominees were 50-50 beginners drive the descendants, which could be better, could be worse. You know what I mean?

Like, there's some, I'm glad that Drive was nominated. I actually really liked 50-50. Probably not enough to nominate it for like best picture of the year for anything. I haven't seen it since I thought and since I saw it in theaters, but I do think I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah. Remember Angelica Houston being in the race until like late October? She got a nomination here at the Spirits.

Yeah. Best director, Hazanavisius wins, which looks just worse and worse and worse. Every movie he makes, that these awards for him look worse. Alexander Payne was nominated for the descendants, Mike Mills for beginners, a movie that I didn't love, but I do, I have, you know, grown to love Mike Mills, of course. And then Maniac, Nicholas Winding Refin for Drive. Michael Shannon was nominated for Best Mail Lead that went to Jean-Durier. Also nominated Word, Damien Bashir, Ryan Gosling for Drive, and Woody Harrelson for Rampart, a good movie that makes you feel bad. Chastain was nominated for Take Shelter for Supporting Female, Loses to Shailene Woodley for the Descendants.

In one of those, like, they thought Shailene Woodley was going to be the only Oscar nominee, and so kind of, that's where they went. Janet McTeer for Albert Knobbs was an Oscar nominee, but did not win. Angelica Houston for 50-50 and... Yeah, because the artist is an American production, but Albert Knobbs is probably a British production to them. Yeah. And then the fifth nominee was Harmony Santana for Gun Hill Road, which is one of those, like,

it was kind of the only acting nomination that year that felt like, oh, we're going to present you with a movie that you maybe haven't heard of that you should go seek out. Take Shelter also ends up on National Border Reviews list for the top 10 independent films. I want you to react to these as we go. 50-50 we talked about.

A Better Life. Is that a good movie? I haven't seen it. I'm more so... I mean, I've only seen it once. I more so only remember it for Bashir's performance. I couldn't tell you about the movie itself. Okay.

Another Earth, which is a Brit Marling movie that I haven't... But I haven't seen it. I never saw another Earth. You, the Brit Marling Stan. I know. I haven't seen another Earth. I know. I never went back and saw it.

Isn't that weird? beginners I don't love it you like it I like it okay yeah yeah remember Cedar Rapids the John C. Riley movie Cedar Rapids that felt like when people tomatoes tomatoes all right Liz all right Liz come down go back to your fake did you see the thing where she was lying about being a millionaire Liz from Survivor no she no she wasn't she said she was no she said she was first of all she only she said it was strategy I think she was lying about being celiac. That's what I think she was lying about. No, I think she, I don't think she was lying about being a celiac. She would have just ate otherwise. Um, she ate rice. She ate

rice. Well, maybe it's, I don't know. That's why I think she's, wait, but celiac is, oh. If you are celiac and you can eat rice, don't get in my mentions. I just think this woman is lying. Isn't the whole thing about celiac that you can't eat wheat and isn't rice not wheat? It's a different grain. It's a different grain. It's a different grain. Get at us, celiac. I don't know any, I don't think I have any GF friends that eat rice. Well, maybe they're just, maybe they're just, like, expansive about their, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think there's gluten in rice.

Well, let's listen, the way that this season absolutely sucked, but like, we still keep talking about it. I will, I'm on the record. I think, keep bringing up drama. I think past the merge, this season ruled. That's my, that is my galaxy brain take. past the merge. This season kind of ruled. And I'm standing there. Nothing happened. Oh, my God. So much happened. What are you talking about? Nothing happened. No idols got played, but I wouldn't say that nothing happened. Um, whatever. It was the season of failing upwards. Cedar Rapids is one of those movies where they talk about like Sundance as a pejorative. I normally hate when people say that because I think people are being overly dismissive about too wide of a swath of movies. But Cedar Rapids all allow it for. Um. Cedar Rapids sucks. Cedar Rapids is, to me, more so in my mind, of isn't male nudity funny?

Because they made such a big deal out of you see Ed Helms' ass in that movie. And it's supposed to be funny that we see is... Is it Ed Holmes? I thought it was John C. Riley. Is it both of them? Oh, it's Ed Helms. Oh, okay. I was thinking... Maybe John C. Riley is a comedic foil.

No, maybe I'm thinking of something else then. Whatever. Margin Call, an Oscar nominee. what do we think? Yes. My husband lost that movie because he loves any movie about finance. I will say, I don't, you would think I don't like finance. I would, I think I don't like finance.

I find it deathly boring. And yet, I've also seen too big to fail like eight times of my own volition. So I think the part of me that's seen too big to fail eight times probably, would enjoy watching margin call a few more times. I enjoyed it the first time. J.C. Chandor My memory of Margin Call was we were spending too much time with these beige men

and I wanted to spend more time with Demi Moore and then the last half hour of the movie being so underwhelming and taking forever to just land the plane. Well, the problem is the plane didn't really land in real life, so there's... Exactly. There's not a satisfying way to end it.

Here's what I'm going to say. Shame is the next movie on the NBR Top Ten Independent Films list. Shame is going on the list I'm putting of movies that people really liked back when it was released. And so many people have backed off of it since then that I feel like it is now an incredibly underrated movie. It's interesting. We should talk about that movie when we've not done a 2011 movie immediately. And maybe we'll do it this year because we're going to do it this year because we're going to. Got a McQueen coming. I'm excited for a new McQueen.

Well, they say. I think the thing that you're describing is because there have been more and better McQueen movies since. And, like, McQueen has a certain vibe of, like, matching the physical experience with the psychological experience. And that's what his thing is, or at least that's how I view him as a filmmaker. I think that the backlash did not go that to. I think the backlash went as far as people sort of thinking it was cringe to like something that was so sort of deeply, like, basic and Freudian, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think a lot of people really hate that movie and think that it's faux deep or like. I think people sort of thought that they were smarter than that movie in a way that they didn't like.

in a way that they found sort of that they made them, you know, look down upon that movie. Isn't that movie like 95 minutes and people act like it's like three hours of long takes of nothing? Well, people also got mad at the two sort of breakout kind of viral aspects of that movie, one of which was Michael Fastbender's penis and the other one was Carrie Mulligan singing New York, New York, both of which. Which we've recently talked about. Both of which were obscene in different ways. You know what I mean? Both of which were gaudy and over the top and gratuitous in different ways. But I do think the people who dissent on this movie, in my experience, also fundamentally misunderstand what McQueen's whole deal is.

And like, I don't think it's without flaw. I just think at this point it's a better movie than people in mass give it credit for. We've talked a lot about, we need to talk about Kevin for a movie that we haven't actually done on this podcast, but we will at some point soon. I know that like every time we talk about it, we sort of get, you know, sketchy about the Ezra Miller of it all. But like, I think we can all be adults and, you know, talk about uncomfortable things. So fascinating. And I think there's a 0% chance of getting you to rewatch. You were never really here. You are correct, sir. Yeah. And then Win Win Win. Closes out that list a movie we have done an episode on. So go back and watch that list. I love Win Win. I also threw in the four Saturn Award nominations that Take Shelter Got. Now, this might piss you off. It gets nominated for Best Horror Thriller film, which... I think there are a thriller.

I think there's a... If you call this movie a psychological thriller, I don't think I would correct you. Right? I would. What would you call it then? A psychological drama? It's a drama. It's just...

You can't just say drama. Drama tells you nothing about it. I need you to be adjectival here. Okay. Okay. Well, let's put it this way. Let's put it this way. And this feels thobcore.

Wow. I hate calling us thobb. Like, this feels, this had Oscar bus core. Yeah. Where does this movie belong at Blockbuster? They didn't have psychological drama. Yes, that's true. If it's, you only had thriller or drama.

Yeah. Where does this movie belong at Blockbuster? It belongs in drama. Yeah, you're right. Of those two options, you're right. Anyway. Can we talk about the Sundance competition lineup that this movie was a part of before? Yeah, but then let me go back to the Saturns after that.

Oh, no, go into the Saturns because you brought it. brought it up first. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo wins Best Horror Thriller for them. I think that is much more definitely a thriller. That's a thriller, sure. Why are horror and thriller together?

I don't know, man. Talk to Saturn, the god of the underworld. He'll tell you, when he's not eating his son in a famous painting. Contagion is nominated but does not win. I imagine that that's a thriller, even though it's not really. It's kind of a slowly unfolding...

It's an ego thriller. I would call Contagion a thriller, sure. I guess. I feel like Thriller has to like, it's got to get my... Well, Contagion gets my heart rate up, but for like different reasons. Another movie that I think it's fine. We can do that movie now. Talk about movies that don't exist anymore.

Remember the Devil's Double, a movie I saw in the theater and was like psyched for because it was Dominic Cooper being like slutty with his own twin. like I was He plays the identical twin of a dictator of Saddam actual Saddam, is it? I never saw the movie. Wow, ever.

Okay. Well, anyway, we'll move on. A movie that exists only as a poster to me. Nobody talks about the devil's double anymore. Ever, ever, ever, ever. It's kind of crazy. The Gray, which is definitely a thriller, the Liam Neeson movie where he tapes

glass bottles to his fists and then fights wool. with his fair fist. Remember when a lot of straight male critics were trying to be like the gray is one of the best films of 2011? The funniest thing. I'm like, sure, because the movie year's not that great, but... The funniest thing about the gray is, is that they advertised it with all of these shots of, as I just mentioned, Liam Neeson, who like survives a plane crash and he's in the wild and it's snowy and whatever. Liam Neeson taping the broken ends of little minibar bottles from the airplane to his fists

so that he has like jagged bottle fists to punch... Does like the Henry Cavill Mission Impossible Pugh-Pew thing, right? But he's going to go punch wolves in the face. And like, that's all in the trailer. And in reality, sorry to spoil, that happens in the closing seconds of the movie and the movie ends before you get to watch Liam Neeson punching wolves in the face with glass bottles. And that's why the movie got like a D plus. I imagine it did.

I imagine it did. Then the final... This is not just a movie that's just like, my masculinity is so interesting. I will say, for the genre of Liam Neeson gets by on his wits and his inherent violence, that was fun. The remake of The Thing is the final horror thriller nominee, the only horror movie. in this entire field, I will say. Take Shelter did win Best Writing at the Saturn's,

beating out Hugo, Midnight in Paris, two Best Picture nominees of that year, although neither one of us like Midnight in Paris. Another Earth, Super 8, and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, which Rise is the James Franco one, I'm pretty sure. Yes.

Best actor, won by Michael Shannon, so he was winning some stuff, beat out Antonio Banderas in The Skin I Live, the movie I wanted to love so much. That's one of my least favorite Almodovar. I didn't get it.

I did not latch on to it. I just didn't. Ben Kingsley and Hugo. Chris Evans and Captain America the First Avenger. Dominic Cooper in the Devil's Double. Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible ghost protocol. I would say that easily Michael Shannon is the best of that bunch.

Best actress. I pause at Ben Kingsley, though, because Kingsley is really underrated in Hugo. and maybe my favorite thing about Hugo, a movie that I think is fine. I fell asleep watching it again when we watched the Scorsese movies. I'm sorry. I did. I understand why people who love Hugo, love Hugo. I personally think it's just fine.

Yeah. Jessica Chessane was nominated for Best Actress, which was won by Kirsten Dunst for Melancholia, one of the rare Cannes Film Festival Saturn Award doubles that have happened. uh in a career also soon to happen uh with the substance watch the substance get a screenplay yeah except demi didn't win best actress at i said screenplay oh screenplay okay brit marling is nominated for another earth elizabeth olson oh wait this is why we've we've talked about this particular saturn awards a lot because aside from brit marling for another earth your other nominees are elizabeth olson for marthy may marlene we covered it kira nightly for a dangerous method we covered it runy mara for the girl of the dragon tattoo which we didn't cover but we did cover Kirsten Dunst and Melancholia. So it's a whole thing. Gotham Awards nominated this twice for Best Feature and Best Ensemble. Beginners was the winner in both of those categories,

although in terms of best feature, it was beginners tied with the Tree of Life. Talk to me about the Sundance Film Festival. I just think that it is in this U.S. dramatic competition lineup, wild that Take Shelter didn't get something. Let me read off these prize winners to you, and I'll mention a few of the other

movies that were in that lineup. So, the grand jury prize goes to Like Crazy. Yeah. Like Drake DeRemises, like Crazy. They also give Felicity Jones their acting cry. I no longer like dumping on that movie because Anton Yelchin

is no longer with us, and it makes me sad. Like, I did not care for that film. It's not the movie. I mean, I thought the movie was fine. But, like, winning, I think that won two punch of two prizes for that movie is a lot. Another Earth wins a special jury prize. The audience award goes to circumstance. The screenwriting award goes to Sam Levinson for another happy day.

Yeah. Aymour film. Yes. And directing. The wiki pages, nuts, by the way. You cannot navigate anything. Directing goes to Sean Durkin for Martha Mason, Miamalli. Well, good call.

A good call. But, yeah, some other movies in competition are... This is actually a decent... Pariah. Pariah. Dries for Pariah. That's a big one. You know I love the Vera Farminga movie Higher Ground.

I always sort of go to bat for that one. I think that's a really good movie. Gun Hill Road, previously mentioned in the Independent Spirit Awards, was... As this old Jacobs Terry, which I remember being cute. I've never seen that one. But it's just... I cannot grapple with, like, take shelter and pariah, not getting some type of pride. Isn't the art of getting by on somebody's IMDB game?

Isn't it on, like, Emma Roberts'... Didn't we do Emma Roberts' Imba game, and the Art of Getting By was one of her four? Possibly. Let me look now. It is still on it, and Roberts is known for it. Amazing. Just amazing. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. Oh, that was the year of Project NIM. The documentary Project NIM, remember that? Oh, yeah, sure. The chimpanzee movie, which I always... What are you giving your first prize to in that lineup? In that lineup, Martha Marcy and Marlene. I'm giving it to prize.

Prize very good. The dramatic jury was America Ferreira, Todd McCarthy, Tim Orr, Kimberly Pierce, and Jason Reitman. I want to know what you all have against Jeff Nichols. Well, fair. I always feel like the Sundance Awards are never the most prescient of things. I mean, when they gave Coda, like four prizes. Well, that actually turned to be pretty prescient because it did send that on its way towards an Academy Award. Sure, but like, you're doing, you're on a jury for independent films and you're only championing one movie.

Like, come on. Sure. What are you doing here? No, I understand. I understand. All right. Anything else before we move into the IMDB game? Can we talk about Shea Wiggum for half a second?

Oh, yes. You know from the very first time you see him. that he's going to end up punching something in this movie, right? Like, it's just Shay Wygham and Michael Shannon. Well, Shea Wigham shows up in a movie and... They were both on Boardwalk Empire at this time, both Michael Shannon and Shea Wiggum. So there was that. I really loved Lisa Gaye Hamilton and her, like, one scene in this movie.

I thought she was really good as the social worker, counselor, person. Ray McKinnon's one scene. He's really good. He plays The Brother. I think that's actually a really tremendous scene. The best scene, I think, is the confrontation scene where we've seen snippets of Samantha, like, we see when she gets the insurance cleared to know that their insurance is going to cover. Oh, as soon as that happened, as soon as that caseworker is like your husband has really good insurance. Like you should be really grateful for the insurance that your husband has through his employer, which will go away if something ever happens to your husband's employment.

I would really hate for something bad to happen to your husband's employment. That actor, unfortunately, is not so good. I don't think it's the acting. I just think there's no way of mentioning that without the audience being like filing that one away for the eventual, you know, yeah. But that confrontation scene where, you know, her journey is, I literally don't know what's going on with you. Please tell me, I want to know because I'm a supportive spouse and I don't want to also push you away. push you away. But it's also this thing of like, she really doesn't grasp that he's going through psychological turmoil too. And that I think is the pivot point of the movie where it goes

from being this thing that's all in his head that's, you know, tense and terrifying to becoming a movie about a marriage and how marriage just work and communication and yet, yeah, yeah. One last question for you. If you were to have, and I know you live more in the Midwest, you live in the state of Ohio where this movie takes place, in fact. Sure. There are tornadoes, I imagine, where you are, right? We've had multiple evenings where we end up in our parking garage.

Is that where you go, the parking garage? For a tornado warning. If you had. a house with a yard, with a storm cellar, would you put your resources towards expanding it and tricking it out the way that Michael Shannon does in this movie? Why or why not? This is why we need to preserve physical media because trust and believe my storm shelter has a library. I have a separate. I have duplicates of all of my Criterians, and one goes in the home, one goes in the storm shelter, because if I'm going to be

stuck down there for, who knows, maybe the apocalypse happened and I have to live the rest of my days down there. I'm saying. I need to be stocked up. This is what, you know, you could have an electricity generator, but like, the, the lights are no longer on at the Criterion Channel. Max is pulling down. Right.

You've got to entertain yourself. I've never felt more seen than when I saw Michael Shannon essentially put in a on his storm shelter, where I was like, yeah, if I'm going to be down there for any length of time, even if it's for like an evening, I'm going to want and I'm going to want comfort. I do not want to spend any time being uncomfortable while I'm also being terrified out of my mind. So... Listen, the toilet still needs a door in a bomb shelter. Well, yes.

Yeah, I don't know what I would do in that situation. Sinai pill, baby. Well, that's what I would do. You hate to put it that way, but yeah, I mean. At least I laughed when I said it. No, I would not survive any apocalypse. No, God, no. Are you kidding?

By intention. Anytime I look at one of those, like, you know, walking dead or kind of thing, I'm like, even the like, I know, I know that everything, like, the walking dead will have a decent sort of swath of. body types in their show, right? So it's like they've got the like the sort of like older, rugged dad type and the sort of younger, skinnier woman, how she's going to survive to like, you know, the older sort of mom type. And she's becoming more sort of rugged and and grizzled as time goes along. And then you'll have your sort of soft, doughy man who is keeping up. And whenever they show the, like, scenes where they're fighting off the zombies, he's, you know, he's got a plank, a wood that's sharp at the end. And he's doing his job or whenever. And all I'm thinking of is, is like, I would just be on the ground. And at the mercy of my friends and neighbors, to like, I don't have the stamina or the endurance to keep up with all of these people fighting off these zombies. I'm sorry. That's just not going to happen. For me, just because the zombie apocalypse happened doesn't mean.

you're not about relaxing. Thank you. And all of these shows look down their nose. Many of us would be changed by an apocalypse. Without fail. Only the strongest stay the same. Without fail, these apocalyptic shows all look down on the people who, they'll come across a, like, a town that's got their walls up, and they've got the creature comforts,

and they've managed to, like, we've figured out how to brew coffee. We show movies on the weekends. And without fail, all of the people who have been. and like crawling through pits of feces and human remains throughout most of it are like, like, these people don't know how what it's like to live in the world. These people have been sheltered. And like without fail, their, you know, perfectly manicured life comes crumbling down. And we in the audience go, yeah, they thought they had it made.

They didn't realize what the real. And all I ever do is, like, identify with those people. I've been like, you know what? They found a place with a soft bed and a change of clothes and so. water to take a shower in. As if there's not ingenuity there. What's wrong with that? Aren't they?

Didn't they do a better job than the person who like got hospital? Well, no. Hospitalized is not anybody's fault. I was thinking of the beginning of that Walking Dead where like he has to like leave a hospital. But you know what I mean? I'm with you without ever watching an episode of the walking. I'm just saying. Justice for the comfy folk in in post-apocalyptic media.

understand what you're saying, though, because, like, Hurley only had his little Walkman. Thank you. And nothing else. Like, but you can't blame Hurley. You sure can't blame Hurley. No. Until the batteries die dramatically, which we always... Justice for, just as for pillows in the apocalypse. Okay. Chris, do you want to tell our listeners all about the IMDB game? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDV game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we

mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's indeed correct. That is the IMDB game. Chris, would you like to give or guess first? Why don't I give first? This has not been a good month for me in the IMDB game, so maybe I'll, you know, give myself a little time.

to, I guess, from your perspective, wind myself up or wear myself down. We'll see. So I went into the Jeff Nichols filmography. Thus far, we only have one Oscar-nominated performance from the Jeff Nichols' filmography. That is one, Miss Ruth Nega, from the motion picture Loving. So I chose her for you, and you have one television, three movies. Oh, what was the title of that television show? Is it Preacher?

Preacher is incorrect. Oh. Is it Marvel's Agents of Shield? Agents of S-H-I-E-L-D. Shield. She was good on that show. She was like a recurring. She was only recurring on that show.

She was kind of a bad-ish guy. When that show was still on, was it ABC? and every week, you know, people progressively more and more were like, are we really doing this? Are we doing this? I think... I will say, I was, I was one who stuck up for Asians of Shield. I thought that movie, or that show, once it sort of figured out how to exist in its own little bubble, I thought it existed pretty well in its own little bubble. I will give credit to that show.

One wrong guess, one correct guess for you, sir. All right. So... Loving Loving is correct Passing For Oscar nomination Passing her near Oscar nomination

Okay now Oh She's so good in passing Just like what a fucking screen presence Yeah she's great Um All right Ruth Ruth Ruth Ruth

I'm trying to think was it is she the one in Breakfast on Pluto towards the end Is that your guess? Yeah That's correct Is it?

Okay, all right Breakfast on Pluto did that movie last year Right, that's the one where she's sort of like They formed this little like quasi family Killian Murphy Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, not too bad actually for me doing Ruth Naga. So I went down the Jessica Chastain rabbit hole, and I, of course, the movie that has not come out yet in the States, but has apparently screened in Europe for like months, Jessica Chastain, Anne Hathaway, what if a map of the world slayed, mother's instinct. Mother's Instinct, which, it's like Neon just announced the October release date for Nora, still no release date for Mother's Instinct. So it's like, are they just going to, is Neon just going to dump this thing on, like, streaming somewhere? It's been months before any of us had any kind of illusion that this movie was going to be good, and I'm using scare quotes here, good. Here's flash. None of us give a fuck.

We don't care if it's good. We just want to fucking see it because we know that even if it's not. good. Why didn't they release this movie for Mother's Day? Like, it's also, TikTok, TikTok, TikTok, Pride's a waste in. Why didn't we release this movie for fucking pride so that like gay men could like faint extravagantly while we all fucking freaked out over this movie? Like my God. I don't understand how it's like, I mean, basically on Twitter now that you can have videos for whatever. And the second that something is available,

on VOD, you see GIFs and video clips everywhere. How is this movie not, like, fully pirated? Well, that too. I'm sure it is. I'm not a pirater. So, but, like, I'm sure if I wanted to watch that movie right now, I could. But, and, like, I'm not suggesting listeners do that.

Right. But it's just like, what are you waiting for? It's played the entire world. Mother's Instinct is a movie where it seems that Anne Hathaway and Jessica Chastain, friends, mothers, their children are friends. They both dress as if they are in some sort of, like, high fashion, um, far from heaven remake or something. And they both have, as if far from heaven is not high fashion. Well, true. Um, they both have husbands. I don't know who belongs to who,

but the husbands are played by Anders Danielson Lai and Josh Charles. And who we are doing today for you, Chris, is Josh Charles. You got a... Would you like somebody else? Do you want somebody else? I was going to give you a choice, but then I thought this was more fun.

This is so hard. I don't... Okay, I'll give you somebody else. I'll give you somebody else. Chris did not want to do it. I hate to punk out, but we're also recording this at night. I'm not cutting out any of the parts

where I talked about Mother's Instinct though, so sorry, we're going to have to keep all of this in. Instead, find, instead of Josh Charles, which I would admit you would have had a very tough time. I tried very hard to find somebody we hadn't done before. I will give you a free out at some point, too. Okay, I won't take it. Listen, we're almost 300 episodes into this, and we can punk out at this time. Here's what I'm going to say.

I don't remember how I got to this. Oh, you know, I did, but I'm not going to tell you. I chose Chris Rock. I'm not going to tell you yet. I'll tell you eventually. Oh, okay. Is there any TV? No.

One of them is technically a producer credit, but he's stars in the movie, so. In the movie. Uh, top five. Yes, correct. Overrated movie. Uh, I like the vibe of that movie. Sure. But, like, doesn't hold up.

Um. Should star an actual actor. See, there's also movies that he's directed to, like Head of State. But I'm going to guess that, well, I'll say Head of State. Head of State. That is the one where he's listed as a producer. Oh, okay. Well, Purdue's directed.

Down to Earth. No, one strike. Oh, okay. that was like headliner oh i'm sorry i should have said this before i keep forgetting that this is a rule one of these is a voices voices yes oh okay shrek no no how dare you he's going to shrek not shrek not shrek that's eddie murphy god damn it canceling chris for pride no no no because it's basically shrek it's madagascar it is madagascar Madagascar, in fact. What if, like, Madagascar is better than Shrek?

Because, like, I would never know. I understand that Gen Z loves Shrek. Gen Z loves Shrek in a weird ass way. But Shrek has aged so bad. Nobody talks about. It's so 2001 that it's, like, unwatch. But I also feel like that's probably the reason why it has become, like, notorious, known. Like, I think it's fun.

because of that. Smash mouth is also a known tortures device for yours truly, so that might also be way I'm not watching it. All right, you have one left. It is not a voice performance. It is a regular, regular movie. How far back am I willing to go for Chris Rock? Because there could be something from the 90s in there.

Yeah. It's not going to be like, I think I love my wife. Yikes. Um, well, no, because if head of state is showing up there, and he directed that and produced it, did he direct head of state? Is that one of the ones he directed? Hold, please. Head of state directed by Chris Rock. Yeah, then I am going to say, I think I love my wife. It is not, I think I love my wife. Your year is 2005. Okay, 05. Oh, 5. What's going on in 05?

O 5 is the time of Brokeback Mountain. Crash. You remember Chris Rock and Brokeback Mountain? You remember him... Chris Rock and Capote? In Capote. Mrs. Anderson presents. Yes.

You know, she was presenting Chris Rock. Is she... Um, um, uh, he plays the zebra in Madagascar, right? Yeah, the only thing I remember about Madagascar of series that I've seen none of the movies of. Or is Ben Stiller the promos with the zebra in the rainbow afro wig where he's singing Afro circus in the trailers? See, that's funnier than anything in check. Yeah, can you name the voices and species of the four main Madagascar people? There's a giraffe.

Uh-huh. There's a lion. Uh-huh. Who's who? Because lions are, like, lions are like the animal in animal movies. I'm going to guess that that is Ben Stiller. Because Ben Stiller's first built. Yeah.

I'm guessing you're right. Uh, and it's Jada. No, it's not Jada. There's a woman. There is a woman. It's because it's like they're all animal friends. Yeah, it's Shada. You're right.

Oh, okay. She's who. See, I know too much about the Madagascar movie, though, is she? Oh, is she the giraffe? No, I think. She's the hippo. I think she's the hippo and who's the giraffe. Oh, okay.

So who's the fourth friend in Madagascar? Yes, who is the fourth friend? I don't think it's Owen Wilson No, who's the fourth friend Oh, it's David Schwimmer There you go All right Divide Game Accomplished

Guess the 2005 Chris Rock movie Okay Was this like a big hit I will tell you I have no way of knowing It could have been Let me look up the year But you don't recognize this movie

Oh no I do I just like, this belongs to a type of movie that it could have made $150 million or $50 million, and I would have no way of... It's too early for grown-ups. Is it grown-ups? Not grown-ups. But... But it's something like that, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're on a right track. Well, yeah. I mean, he only does comedies.

This movie... Except for that one saw movie. ...was the number 12 movie of this year. It made $150. something million. So what did I tell you? Um, yeah. Okay. No sequel? No sequel. Or is there a sequel? It is a, it's a remake, though.

Oh. Oh. Oh, God. He's not the star. It's him and some other guys, right? Yeah. There's a somebody's the star. That's, there's like a major star and he's one of the supporting folk. And it's a remake. Yes. The Major Star also does comedies.

Yes. Like, yes. And doesn't really do sequels. For as often as he makes movies, he doesn't really do sequels. Oh, that is... Awesome. Someone. That is not...

Not Owen Wilson. Not... Well, this is the Wedding Crashers year, so it wouldn't be them. pre-appetal This is somebody who Chris Rock has something in common with career-wise Like From stand-up comedy

No After that Well not after that He obviously kept doing stand-in- S&L Yes Will Farrell No

He's like really good friends with this guy Will Ferrell is really good friends with this guy Will Ferrell is really good friends with... Chris Rock is really good friends with this person. Oh. I mean, I believe that Chris Rock is really good friends with all those people. Adam Sandler. There you go.

But it's not grown-ups. It's... What's the 05 Sandler? Because grown-ups is the one movie that he does sequels to, but still. People don't really talk about this in like the Sandler. Uvra, but like it obviously was a success for him. It's not Longest Yard. Why not?

Is it Longest Yard? It's Longest Yard. Why would you say it's not Longest Yard? Because I thought it was like, I thought Longest Yard was like 2003. No, no. Longest Yard was 2005. Wow. Longest Yard. Movie I have not seen. But all of those Sandler movies, once you get past the like, um,

Billy Madison Happy Gilmore or whatever I don't like Little Nicky 300 million or 80 million I don't I don't I don't I Little Nicky was one of Little Nicky was like his first disappointment Okay

Little Nicky's like 40 million or something Okay see I don't know I don't know these things I could have hinted you towards Josh Charles I could have What is Josh Charles

No we're gonna save it for a guest maybe I think we could have a guest who's more suited to it. Is it all TV? No, it's only one TV. Okay. Then, yeah, that would have been very hard. Yeah.

That would have been, that would have been outside of my... Yeah. It would have been. All right. I'm sorry to punk out. No, that's okay. I'll just remember this next time you make fun of me for being a stupid literalist who... I don't make fun of you.

You did say before I outed myself. You were like, people... who think that this movie has an ambiguous ending are stupid. That's not what I... I was saying... You did kind of say that. I meant people who see the ending of this movie and don't know what they're supposed to get away from that. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

I get it. I get it. Listen. Not everything has to be plot. No, but it can't be all metaphor. I think that's maybe where you and I sort of like... But there can be a spiritual... journey. Like ultimately, like, when we watch movies, we're going on a spiritual

journey, not a plot. Sure. All I'm saying is, if I see Motor Royal coming from the sky, I better be fucking dreaming. That's all I'm saying. All right. That is our episode. Come to my shelter. That is our episode. If you want more, this had Oscar buzz. You can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.tumbler.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz, our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and our Patreon at patreon.com slash

This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you? Twitter and Letterboxed at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on the socials at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. You should also head on over to Vulture and sign up for the Gold Rush newsletter where you can listen

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brag complimentary I will say when I say you brag about it I say that you do so with good reason You have I don't think I'm bragging I'm mostly

You should brag You should brag You have constantly single digits Almost not Not in like two weeks, I don't. Well, that's true. But still, you deserve a brag.

You're very good at this game. It's not bragging. It's mostly frustration with myself at not doing better. This is the thing. You think that I should be doing better than this, even if I do well, means that I'm bragging. I'm literally meaning I should do better than this. Well, I think you're doing pretty darn well. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave

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