This Had Oscar Buzz - 301 – Bernie

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

our old friend Kevin O’Keeffe and Texas native for a very Texas movie. Debuting in 2011 but arriving in theaters, Richard Linklater’s Bernie accounts a real-life Texan wink wink bachelor Bernie Tiede (played by Jack Black), beloved by the church ladies and local community. However, he is taken in by the town villain Margie (Shirley MacLaine) and … Continue reading "301 – Bernie"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hack and French. Dick Pooh. There are people in town, honey, that would have shot her for $5. Everybody's describing Bernie Tudius as an angel. The nicest fella I've ever met. He didn't do it.

He's an angel, all right? An angel of death. That dog don't hunt. Jack Black, Shirley Maclean, Matthew McConaughey. We'll have misfortune. Your number comes up. Danny Buck's coming to get you first.

Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast investing $20,000 in off-Broadway theater in the most evil way possible. Every week on This Head Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform The Autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, my favorite widow in a freezer, Joe Reed. Chris, you know how people have these little habits that get you down? Like Bernie. Bernie like to spend money around town. No, not his money.

My money. So I was home this one day, and I'm really irritated, and I'm looking for a little bit of sympathy. And there's Bernie out and about in Carthage, putting on a pageant and rehearsing. No, not rehearsing, trying to leave me. And so I said to him, I said, you try and leave me one more time. And he did. You took that armadillo rifle off the garage floor and fired four warning shots into my back. What a shame that Bernie's not the one that's about, that's the gay husband.

Yeah, which one that's, uh, uh, lip shits. Out lip shits more than I could possibly say. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. who found Maya, which yesterday, in addition to being the day that an assassination attempt was put on

former president on the front, was also the anniversary of Case of the X, we should mention. It was either yesterday or like a few days ago, so goodbye to you. Did you have that in your calendar that you got the Google Alert? No, it was just like, I kept seeing these posts of happy 20th anniversary to Maya's Case of the X. Listener, everyone welcome back, Kevin O'Keefe.

Kevin O'Keefe is here today. Thank you for having me. I was just thinking before we recorded this, like, I was on long enough ago now that y'all have reached success to the point where this is probably for a lot of people, their first episode with me. I'm sorry. Welcome to the world of Kevin O'Keefe, everybody. I know.

I'm sorry that it's not. That certainly can't be true. That can't be true. I think it's probably true. Yeah. But anyway, it's a. new Kevin O'Keepe world because we're not talking about a Jessica Chastain movie. I was going to say

sort of appropriate to the fact that you are working in academia that you've taken a sabbatical from Jessica Chastain for this one episode. I'm switching my major for a moment. We'll see if I want to back. From Jessica Chastain to Texas. I cannot wait to sort of get on

the Texas tip with you for this episode. Yes, because I have a very significant connection to this movie and specifically the author of the article that it's based on. Oh, get out of here. Oh, we can't wait for this. We'll talk. We'll get into it, Deavis.

This came up. We were on our group text, Kevin. And I can't remember whether I brought up Bernie or somebody else did. But you were like immediately like Bernie, great movie. And I immediately texted Chris and I'm like, we got to do Bernie with Kevin. Like, we got to make this happen. That would be such a perfect episode. A la Thorgy Thor.

Thor, I said, love Bernie. Yes. But you meant it. He is my favorite. If we were being realistic and we were saying maybe talking about link later, we would be like, love me and Orson Wells.

I think the only linklater we've done before, and I truly don't remember anything we said about it. If I would remember correctly, I would say it was the least link later link later movie though i also we also did where'd you go burn it dead oh we did do where you'd go burn a dead that's that's that's wonderful three i know i know we're still a standard darkly episode we need that we could honestly the most like purely like on theme uh this had oscar buzz movie of link letters is probably last flag flying but neither one of us wants to watch that movie

again uh yeah no one needs to see that movie twice we've never done it I went to like a DGA screening of that movie and I've never seen a group of people less interested in talking about the movie they just saw. It's not even like egregiously bad. It's just sort of just like boring and uninspiring and I'm sorry. I felt like it could have actually been good if it wasn't for Brian Cranston railroading that movie. And yeah, imagine Brian Cranston being a showboat. I don't even hate Brian Cranston like you do But that is not a good performance of him

No He has such a weird filmography I'm just looking at the list of movies And like the thing about Richard Lincolner is you forget That it's as many movies as it is Like he works a lot Yeah He's always working

Yeah He was more selective because you remember The big projects But like Hitman was him And that's this year Like It's more than he would think Well and Bernie

Was after after me and Orson Wells and I think it counts as like tied for his longest gap between making a movie and years yeah and this is like a few years before boyhood comes out so you can imagine

you know they're tying the bow on that thing but even between that is before midnight yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and now he's doing a nightmare merrily which like I just saw Merrily before it closed in Nice I'm glad that they filmed it I'm looking forward to that it's really great

I saw the third to last performance I saw the Saturday matinee when it closed Sunday Yeah yeah yeah it's amazing But the other element of it is I find it so unfortunate that like Richard Linklater started this grand journey To sort of do like oh my god this is going to be the definitive Merle one's ever right no one's ever done this successfully and like and now it's been done and we still have 18 years to go with just danger of

absolute bizarre cat not bizarre like it's just gonna be it's already a dated casting choices and it's like that's the thing is like boyhood worked partially because it was this sort of like under the radar thing, but also the fact that, like, it was his kids. And it was, you know, his buddy Ethan Hawks, so like, whatever. And, and, you know, Patricia, of course. But, like, it wasn't, I feel like there were fewer variables there. There were fewer sort of, like, free radicals in that plan. And also, it could sort of fail quietly if it didn't come together. To the, to the point where they've already had to recast ones. Yeah. Yeah. Who replaced, um, Blake Jenner?

Oh, that's cool. Who is already now like eight bazillion times as famous as he was then, which I guess is good, but it also is just like, who knows where his career is going to be? Also, do we know if he can sing? That's, that's a decent point.

That's a decent point. Anyway. At least I think this episode we're doing, we had the opportunity to do link later, right, because while I think there's, good stuff in where'd you go Bernadette it's

you know that's kind of seen as a failure for Linklater though I don't know how much of it is really put on his shoulders kind of an odd adaptation I think a better movie because he's making it than probably someone else working I think if you asked 10 people who actually

saw that movie if if you know they know who directed it they would like at least five would not know do you know what I mean like I feel like um even among the, you know, self-selecting sample of people who actually went and saw that movie. And me and Orson Wells, it's like,

I could maybe go back and watch it again with an eye to that, but it does feel like that is really a movie. If you ask 10 people who directed it, would they know as Richard Linklater? Because it's maybe his least distinctly his

in his filmography. And like, what is the Richard Linklater thing? Like, Texas. I was going to say, right, like Texas, the sort of like sort of loose ensembles like Bernie has a lot of those elements that really feel like quintessential Richard Linkletter. There's a certain

comic sensibility to a lot of his movies that I think it's a lighter touch that maybe other people would go heavier on. Like, if Bernie was full Christopher guest, it might get annoying, but because it's someone with a lighter touch like Linklitter, I think it stays

consistently fucking funny the whole time. Yeah, agree. The movie that I always point to as like, oh, this is link later distilled is everybody wants some. Because it's all the things we're talking about. It's set in Texas, loose ensemble, very like we're sort of watching the times go by.

And you're right, Bernie shares a lot in common with that. I think what puts it apart and we'll talk about the adaptation more is just that you do feel how much this is a magazine article in it. Yeah. And the structure is a little bit strange

for a link later. movie relative to his other other work because of that element yeah i watched last night probably for the hundredth time i watched dazed and confused which obviously everybody wants some is sort of what they call it a spiritual sequel to dazen and confused um what a perfect movie what like i i put my letterbox review in and i'm like do i make people mad by throwing altman's name into this just to sort of like rile people up but i do feel like there is a an ability to get into the ins and outs of a community of really specifically drawn individuals, even when you're not spending a whole ton of time on him. The fact that, like, everybody in dazed and confused

sort of moves in and out of these sort of smaller sub-circles of friends, I find to be so true to life and so well done, where it's just like you can sort of see where these people sort of interact and and don't and butt up against each other and it's so deceptively because it's so fun and silly and you know about high schoolers it's deceptive in how like in the skill that it takes to tell a really you know well-layered story like that completely agree I love that movie oh my god that's so good even the stuff that's like dated about it I think it's tremendous is. I think it's so funny. All right.

I'm so super, super glad, though, that, Kevin, when we get into the Texas stuff, because there's a lot of it in this. There's a lot of it. Oh, they're right up on front about it. They put the map there and everything. We can talk about it more. I think that that is genius. And we'll talk about why. If nothing else, Bernie is an hour and 40 minute montage of just the most fabulous southern women you have ever seen in your.

life just saying, honey, I tell you what, like, it's just that. It is nothing but that for it's, it's the fighter, but for, um, it's not like Texas women. You know what I mean? Texas women in lawn furniture. I heard of one of those CMT girls. Yeah, the casting in this movie is really tremendous. You talk about, you know, they're adding a casting category to the Oscars. Oh, my God.

If Bernie had been around for that and didn't get nominated, boy, would I have raised holy hell? Because like, finding riots in the streets. I mean, finding these people, my goodness. Oh, my God. I think about, there's a couple women, but the one woman who talks about whether Bernie is gay or not, she says, that dog don't hurt. Like, she.

He's tremendous. Not to get ahead of ourselves, but like, I have a segment prepared for locals. And so I am, don't worry not. I will be going in. Well, and, like, my favorite is maybe the woman with the, like, yassified Kate Goslin hair, where it's, like, lamed out. The pineapple, the pineapple hair behind her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, she's great. No, the styling on all of those people is really, really tremendous. Down to Matthew McConaughey's real-life mother as one of the townspeople in, like. What's that? She's the one who goes off about Marjorie shopping for the sexy lingerie. Yeah, yeah. No one wants to see a bra on that, you know, on that woman. And you have the other woman sitting next to her the entire time just fracking up laughing. It's one of my favorite things in the area.

Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. And she's sort of styled in this sort of like tasteful animal print top and sort of like a bigger statement, really. But you can even see like within these communities, like who probably gravitates to who you've got the church ladies in their little circle. and you've got the guy who plays, I don't have his name in front of me now, and I should, the guy who plays the funeral director who works with Bernie is so goddamn funny.

Oh, I wish I could find it on here. I was just looking at the thing, and I think I realized that he passed away. Oh, no, that's sad. Right after this movie, hold on. Yeah, dedicated to Rick Dyle, who portrayed funeral home director, Don Leggett in the film. Yeah, yes.

Oh, so incredibly funny. And the way that, like, I mean, we'll get into this too, but like one of the things that this movie does so well is gets into the kind of all politics is local of it all, where it's just like within the town, they have established their own sort of moral code. And it's not this kind of like, you know, dark thing or whatever. It's just sort of like, yeah, we like Bernie. We don't like Marjorie. And like this is. That's very small time, Texas. And probably a small time, generally, but, like, I can speak to it from, like, sure.

My mom is from a town called Abilene in, uh, Texas. And it's bigger than Carthage, but it's not, it's not huge. Like, the, the culture there is very much like here. And when I was watching it, and certainly when my mom was watching it, we, we saw a lot of, uh, similar. This is one of my mom's all-time favorite movie. So I also, yeah, to be on for that. Well, your mom is rad. You know, I love your mom.

So, um, her seal of a. approval is a value. Kevin's mom come on this had Oscar buzz give us our top 10 films

of all time. The way she would is the very true. Very true. It'll be an excursion over on our Patreon.

Oh? Is that a transition Crystal? Maybe, maybe Joseph would you like to tell the lovely townsfolk

of this had Oscar Buzz community about our Patreon. Citizens of of all the different areas of Texas and everywhere. This had Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance is your chance to, for the low, low cost of $5 a month, get more episodes from us. We are offering two bonus episodes per month for, like I said, just $5. One of those episodes will be what we're calling

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other awards shows. We've done an MTV Movie Awards. We've done an Independent Spirit Awards. We just recently recorded our episode on the Awards race check-in, which should be up by the time you get this. Yes. And we settle in for a long one. Yes, it's a nice long episode. Kind of also a recap of the year. Yeah. That has is half over. For a year that doesn't seem to have a strong direction, certainly as compared to last year, which was so by this point in the year, Barbenheimer was already sort of chiseled on the walls of the Oscars. So it's a lot more

wide open, which gives us a lot of room to discuss. So that was a really fun one. And you should Worth the cost of $5 alone to get that episode. It is, as we like to say, for the cost of a cheesy gordita crunch, you can get two full new episodes every week. So to sign up for this head Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance, just go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this head Oscar buzz, and you'll be all set. Fabulous, cheesy gordita crunch, $5 a month. Or, I mean, maybe, okay, for $5 a month, what is like the Texas? Yeah, what do you get at Gueros for $5? It would be like a honey butter chicken biscuit at Waterburger, which could pay anything for right now.

Honey butter biscuit, what I refer to are listeners as all honey butter biscuits. Wait, wait, but speaking of pod, pod business, and is this 301, is this episode 301? This is 301, 301, baby. So, first of all, thrilled to be the first of the post 300 era. Second of all, cannot believe y'all unleashed collateral beauty on the world. I cannot wait. You get named dropped. You do get named dropped in there, Kevin.

So history is recognized. They hear about me last episode and here I am. I know, the legend, the legend herself is with us. So. Cannot wait a listen to that. I, you can't read the doll and you cannot, you cannot set aside Kevin O'Keefe when it comes to this. Like Roxy Andrews, I am also lip-syncing with my hair flipping left and right. You're here to make it clear.

Listen, if there's anything that we've said about you, you are here to make it clear. Specifically, you know, the nuance of Texas culture is going to be made clear. Yeah, but speaking of making it clear, should we do the 60-second plot description? Let's get into it. Listener, we are here talking. about the motion picture Bernie directed by Richard Linklater written by Linklater and Skip

Hollinsworth based on the Texas monthly article Midnight in the Garden of East Texas by Hollinsworth starring the one and only Jack Black Shirley MacLean Matthew McConaughey a host of Texas locals that may or may not be

portraying themselves or a version of themselves and Richard Robichot as the the sister I never had the tax accountant I always wanted

I'm getting ready to sing the praises of Richard Robes show who's so good in this movie The movie opened the Los Angeles Film Festival in 2011 Rest in Peace Los Angeles Film Festival

and then opened limited April 27th of 2012 Hugging What was this movie doing not being at South by Southwest? Like, genuinely. That's actually crazy. It could have also played South by Southwest.

It should have opened South by. I mean, it's crazy. It doesn't. Like, that's where it should have premiered. That's kind of, it's nutty. Kevin O'Keefe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of Bernie? As ready as I'll ever be. All right, the new 60-second plot description of the motion picture, Bernie starts now.

Bernie Teed is an assistant mortician beloved by his town of Carthage, Texas. To paraphrase Milan is a real heavy Diana Ross, the men love him, the women love him, they all love him. But no one loves him more than Marjorie Nugent, a widow that everybody in town hates, but he has somehow charmed. The town begins to speculate that they're sleeping together, although some of them actually think he's gay, as they travel the world and build a life together. But two years later, the relationship has soured, and Bernie is stuck as Marjorie's miserable full-time assistant. It all comes to a head when Bernie shoots in the back. A crime he immediately confesses to, but the town doesn't want to hear it. They love Bernie, and they hated

Marjorie. So for DA Danny Buck, it's impossible to get a fair trial. So he gets a change of venue, paints Bernie as a man using Marjorie's money to live the glamorous life and gets Bernie a life sentence in prison. But don't worry too much about Bernie. Even in jail, he is still charming everyone who crosses his path. Wow, with eight seconds to spare. Look at that. Efficient. The efficiency. It is also helpful that it's not a super plotting movie. No, it's not. It really isn't. What? I want to start with Jack Black because this is a performer who I think especially the early sort of portions of his career and also like the tenacious D thing like it

he's a very particular character within the Hollywood sort of landscape and I think because he was associated with a lot of sort of dumb comedies and because his personality is so sort of like aggressive and loud, I think a lot of people sort of came up with, sort of, like, created an

image of Jack Black in their mind, and it's sort of calcified for a while. And I've sort of, for a while, been of the opinion that Jack Black is a lot more interesting and versatile of a performer than he gets credit for. And I would, I wish that he would take the chance to do more things outside of his wheelhouse and I wish more people would offer that to him because I wouldn't even say this is outside of his wheelhouse it just like feels like the perfect role for him yeah but it is but it also like it it gives him a seriousness of character not seriousness but you know what I'm a substance of character that he doesn't get in in all of his movies certainly I will

sort of to calcify your point Joe I feel like the thing that I grew up thinking about him the most for, even though it's not a movie I've seen, is Nacho Libre. Because those ads were constant, and it just felt like, oh, Jack Black, he does this, like, big, campy thing.

When, like, if I think about it, the performance that I love most of his, until Bernie, is School of Rock, which is another movie in which he's leaning a little bit into the Jack Blackisms, but is ultimately played much more seriously. Yeah. Also,

a link later movie which i'm like no one else could do that role that's the other thing is like and i wish i kind of feel the same way about burney too i don't know if i think there is and maybe this is just like link later is the ideal director for jack black because all of those things that we talk about with jack black it's like has he ever really had a director who like understands him as a performer and hones what his skill set is to be used for a specific purpose because like those two are i think this and school of rock are the best jack black performances like even better than margot at the wedding which i do love him in and like he's probably a little bit still on the annoying side and margot at the wedding but i don't i he's also

really good in the holiday and i agree with that i like him in sort of sad he's never done another i generally so i've been going on a little bit of a nancy meyers tear recently and like just generally i'm sad that we have a shallow a pool of nancy meyers movies as we do like it constantly feels like we have eight zillion of them and actually we have like seven six yeah yeah yeah so few um but that's a pairing that i would love to see come back again um if if netflix wouldn't fucking pussy out and not give uh nancy meyers her 150 million dollars maybe we I know. Nancy, go to Amazon because they're given people like $300 million to do whatever the fuck.

Like, Nancy. Apple, like Apple has more money than they know what to do with in terms of, you know, movies and TV shows that they're questioning. I think that this performance, though, part of why I'm like, well, nobody else could do this. I think with Bernie as a character, there's so many directions that you could go. go in a too much direction. And it's so interesting that it's Jack Black, an actor that we think of as being, like, too much sometimes, is, like, this finely calibrated performance

because, like, you could do too gay. It could be too characteristic of, like, church boyness. I hadn't seen the movie since it first came out. And in my mind, he was mincier than he ended up being, as I was watching it again, where it's just like, he definitely plays that angle of the character. But in my memory, it was a lot more sort of like flamboyant and, and, you know, over the top. And I think he calibrates it really well, actually.

The voice is really particular and precise. Like, that is a Texas, like, gay man. Like, that Texas church gay man at that. Yeah, no, it's really strong work. I like that at the end, you see that he clearly. did some prep work with Bernie himself because they showed them talking. And I like, I like it because it doesn't feel like he's just, I don't know, we, y'all have talked about this on the podcast. I've talked about it with Build a View in real life. Like, I don't

love performances where it feels like imitation is the point. But I do like when you can feel the influence of the reveal person. Yeah. Versus Argo, this is my ideal version of show me at the end that these two people. Yes. Yes. Yes. Totally. God, it's so funny at the end of art.

It's said the same year, in fact. I think about the Argo thing all the fucking time because the one person they did not show next to their person is Ben Affleck. Because Ben Affleck's character was Latino. And it's so fun. It's very, very funny. It's incredibly funny. And it's so noticeable.

Like, it's one of those things where it's like, you, like, are you, are you trying to be slick? Because, like, you've really, really done the opposite of that. You draw more attention to it by not. including them. Yes. But like, and yet it's one of those things where it's just like, you guys, Clea Duval looks so much like the real person she's playing. We got to show it. It's so good. And it just sort of draws the line to Affleck. It's very funny. Affleck, who was a BAFTA nominee for this, this movie year that we're talking about for Argo, which is to me very funny. Do you know who, do you know which Oscar nominee got left off of the BAFTA lineup? Somewhat predictably, Denzel Washington. Yeah, never nominated by BFTA. BFTA is not beating. Never nominated by BFTA?

Dentel has never had a BAFTA nomination. Yeah. I would have thought even in the last couple of weeks, because you all remember that one random BAFTA year where they were really like, we are fixing our problem and they wound up nominating like nobody that anybody had ever heard of, including Ashley McHugh from Revenge,

which was hilarious. And then the next year, they were sort of like, so about that, we'll nominate you're going to walk that back yeah I do remember that that was incredibly I like got Matt and we were in

an Oscar pool that year and I actually got mad that we included BAFTA I was like what are we even doing like nobody's drafted these people this is because I think at the time we were not drafting critics choice and that's been changed because I'm like well listen if we're talking about predictions

and we're trying to figure this out Critics' choice is the one to go with, because they literally nominate. Best actress in an action movie. Joe, I think about the congratulations of Angeline Lilly on joining the Oscar race piece you for The Wire forever ago. Oh, we lost Joe. Oh, Joe's back. Hey, I'm back. Yeah, what were you guys discussing?

I can't. Oh, I was giving you kudos for your Evangeline Lilly who's joined the Oscar race piece that you wrote for The Wire. Man, that was bitchy. One of the bitchiest things I've ever written was that. It was incredibly bitchy and I loved it. And it would be better because Evangeline Lilly is a fucking nut now. Oh, yeah. Well, honestly, true.

Yeah. Although that wasn't being bitchy about Evangeline Lilly as much as it was being a bitch about the critics' choice. She was a collateral damage. Not collateral beauty, collateral damage. No, yeah, to be true to notice the collateral damage. What the hell was that movie? That was like, no, that's Michelle. one of the Hobbit movies, I believe.

Oh, God. Right? It was a post-Hobit movie. Oh, God. It was not the desolation of Smowed. Do we not, do we not all remember Evangely and Lily being an integral part of the Hobbit? Like, come on. I've never seen any of those movies.

I actually, until very recently, by recently, I mean, the last few years, had never seen the Lord of the Rings movies. Oh, wow. What did you think when you eventually saw them? So my, I guess, but I, so I thought this was a hot take based on what I've heard other people talk about the Lord of the Rings movies for a long time.

And then I started talking to Lord of the Rings fans and they're like, no, that's the correct take. I think Two Towers is the best movie by and by it. I love the two towers. That was a while there where everybody was like nobody, that's nobody's favorite movie. It's either the first one or the last one that people like. I think it's no contest, honestly.

I think the first one is overstuffed and like doesn't really become a movie until the last like 30 minutes of it. And I think the end, you're just, it's the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hall is Part Two problem. It's just like we're... You have to satisfy too many constituencies. And we're all here to get to a certain point.

Two Towers is the one where it's actually a movie and also gets to like breathe and enjoy itself and everything. I love Two Towers. Yeah, I think Two Towers is great. Also the best trailer of the three of them. Oh, I mean, we want to. Thank you to the Kronos Quartet. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. I mean, I'm a big Lord of the Rings fan in general, but not the Hobbit movie. It's a real shame, though. for like Jack Black in terms of this season because even for a comedy performance he's kind of running second fiddle to Bradley Cooper

because Silver Linings Playbook is in the best picture race. So it's like Jack Black was fully overshadowed by another comedic performance in this year. And it does feel like the thing with comedy performances is there can only ever

be one and then sometimes an equally great performer is just completely overlooked and overshadowed. That Oscar lineup, I think, is really strong. It was a really competitive Best Actor year, too.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. That's what I mean for Best Actor. Daniel Day Lewis wins for Lincoln. Bradley Cooper for Silver linings. Hugh Jackman for Les Mis, which, how does Matthew McConaughey pronounce that in Bernie? It's so funny. It's like less less... Less midfolds or something

like that. Yes, it's so funny. It's not even that. It's like, it's, it's silly. It's so funny. I think what kind of is very good in Bernie, but we'll get to that. Joaquin Phoenix and the master, who was the one that like, this was my peak, I'm so over Joaquin Phoenix, period. Like, I could not appreciate

Joaquin Phoenix and the master whatsoever because I was so over his whole deal. And then Denzel in flight, which I think is like, I think with some perspective, I can be like, oh yeah, that's like a really strong lineup. And then John Hawks for the sessions was

in that mix up until the last possible second. Like, I think John Hawks missed it by very, very thin margin. Definitely sixth place. I forgot this is the Sessions year, which was inspired two incredible tweets that, like, are probably on my top ten of both are on all-time. The Helen Hunt tweet.

Which is Helen Hunt's just recorded devastating death scene expecting your nomination. And you know what? You got it. And Amy Schumer enjoys Skyfall Fags tweet about going to see the sessions and said. Wait, what was, I don't think I've ever seen that. I remember this. Amy Schumer tweets, enjoy skyfall fags. I'm going to go watch Helen Hunt get, I think like, hell and not get eaten out in the

sessions or something like that. It's like the one funny thing Amy Schumer has ever said. Oh my God. That's fantastic. People got so mad at her. They were like, oh my God. And I'm like, no, sorry, that's, listen, that's what I mean. That's the Ula-A sensation, baby. Very much so. Yeah. Um, the outliers that year I thought were interesting, too, because you have some very golden globesy picks. We have Ewan McGregor for salmon fishing in the Yemen and Bill Murray for Hyde Park on Hudson, which were two fairly early this had Oscar Buzz movies. Certainly, Hyde Park on Hudson, I would wager as in our first 20, I think. I think it was that early on.

Or like the first 50. And then arbitrage, which we've somehow never done, but probably should at some point. What? I saw that on the notes and I was like, I don't know what that is. Richard Gere, it's a movie about arbitrage, Kevin. Like, I don't know what, I don't know what you're talking about it. Nate Parker is in it. Oh, God, Nate Parker.

Throw some salt over your shoulder when you say that or something. Gosh. And then you have, like I said, Affleck's nominated for the Baftas. Anthony Hopkins for Hitchcock is nominated by the M. Frugis. Denny Levant for Holy Motors is one of the Chicago Film Critics nominations. Nobody, by the way, nominates Jean-Louis Trintinion. for Amor, which is insane. Which is crazy.

Maybe the best of all of them. Like, it's nuts. Like, I understand why there was such strong sentiment for Emmanuel Riva, but I just don't know how you watch that movie and you give it all these nom-I mean, like the actors branch gave her nomination. But I don't understand how those two, when that movie is being discussed are not lockstep with. It's exactly what happened with. away from her also away from her movie i love julie in away from her right but gordon pince had so good as the husband and got no like absolutely not a crumb for but i think but i think in both of these cases you have to look at the campaign as well like i can remember that one shot of julie

looking out the window and away from her that was the photo that got circulated it was the only photo they ever circulated and it's the same thing with amore with like him holding her face or whatever but you can't see him it's directly on her like if you want to talk to people who like don't have a good recall of those movies like yeah all you think about is the women that one really interesting exercise is to like a lot of these movies who are with are only like sort of remembered like what's the one publicity still that you remember from all of you know what it's going to be for the fucking whale yeah yeah we sure fucking do what that's is that going to be hong chow in any kind of way even though she was hung chow on that apartment that shitty apartment balcony

I remember when everybody started dogging that movie for only releasing that one publicity still And I was just sort of like Oh yeah, why have we not seen it? Because it took them I think what the trailer came out Like a few weeks before the movie actually came out

Because they knew what they fucking had And if people had any sense Of what that movie was Aside from like a few people at Toronto That saw it, you know People would have been outraged Before the movie could come out That Oscars

had the most one of the most unwell things and like people don't talk about it enough, which is they had the camera angle, which was the winners at the podium accepting their award, and behind them that video screen, which is how you have Sarah Polly accepting her women talking award with the Francis McDormand looming over her with like a horrible frown on her face. But the thing that people don't talk about is when the whale won for best makeup and it's this like grotesque image of of obese Brendan Fraser behind them and it's like

they're accepting this award for excellence in their field and it's like look at this absolute like dehumanizing abomination you have done and you have to it was crazy it was nuts yeah to close the button on the they nominate the elder actress but not the elder actor I would also add

Tom Cortney for 45 years to that list. It's like they don't like old guys unless they're a cuddly irascible grandfather. This is also the wife. It's true. Although, I don't know if it's better if they nominate also Jonathan Price. But, yeah.

The Price is pretty terrible in that terrible movie. I don't think Glenn Close is pretty gone. Yeah, that's the, that's the, yeah. He's going to get your stands coming at me with fucking pitfalls. Kevin, I am the meme of the guy taking all the bullets for you. I already taken all the hits for being like

the wife is bad and Glenn is not good in it but like it is so wild to me that we've now entered this period where like Glenn Close does anything and just hundreds of gay men on the internet like feel like it's the last thing that they have to fight for on this earth like

do you guys I'm going to tell you what this fucking Lee Daniels movie she's going to be so good in this movie I cannot wait I cannot wait it's her having fun I'm like yes give me this not fucking Hillbilly Elogy. And it's August 30th, August 30th listener. We're all going to be watching The Deliverance.

Make sure that that movie is number one on Netflix because I know everybody's all about what's number one on Netflix. I think that's all we're going to be talking about in Toronto. I'm going to need Glenn to be hitting the campaign trail this fall to if vice president nominee J.D. Vance is out there. I'm going to need that whole cast to just be like, Mayaculpah, we shouldn't have done this. don't don't make it worse I feel like by the time this episode comes out we will have it locked in the JD Vance because this week is the

yeah we've talked about Shirley Maclean a ton on this podcast so like we don't she's the namesake of our Patreon she's the namesake of our Patreon we do we absolutely love her I found an interview clip

from Hit Fix of all things remember Hit Fix RIPX remember her, where it's Shirley and Jack Black together being interviewed, and they're talking about her character, and she gives this one quote that I love, where she just says, I love the humor in bitchery. Two thumbs up, Cheryl. Love that. Are you watching Nicole's Drag Race every way? Yeah. True. Oh, we'll get to the library being open, because for a few of these characters. But then at one point, Shirley just

starts totally straight face. And she's being funny, but she's not letting it slip. And she's pitching Jack Black on a sequel where Marjorie comes back after death. And she's like, no, I can be like on a cloud. It's fine. And helps Bernie escape from prison. And she's like, this is how we do another movie. I think she's also like, I think Jack Black should be nominated for an Oscar for this, which she's not wrong. But she's like, no, we could do a thing where Marjorie helps Bernie break out of prison. I'm like I just, I love her. I'm sorry. I do.

She's also really good in this. I sort of feel for her that she doesn't get as much to do. And that's, that's not for anything other than just the nature of people. No, you're totally, you're right. You're totally. But she is really good at it. Yeah. AARP movie for grown-up nominee, Shirley McLean and Bernie.

Makes total sense. Yeah, she doesn't really have as much to do, though. And it's maybe things we've seen her do before in this movie, but I just love the idea of Shirley MacLean being in a Linklater movie. I would love to see her in more Linklater movies. Because you might think that there would be some tension there in terms of the style of performance that you usually see from Shirley Maclean and the style of movie that Linklater kind of does. But it's oddly this very natural fit that, you know, you never really question. in. She has this really lovely moment when she gets off the phone with Bernie at one point and she

quietly talks about like, he's so nice to me. And it really plays well because the rest of the time it is kind of the same note the entire time. So when you see that layer, you get why she's so drawn to him. Yeah. And actually I kind of need that moment to make it all work. Because the movie does do a really good job of selling you on why the townsfolk love Bernie. But it stutters a little bit, I think, when it comes to why she loved Bernie. And that

moment to me is one of the biggest pieces of supporting evidence that the movie has. Otherwise, it's just sort of like what was so, so, so special about him that made her, you know, icy exterior melt. It does come down to, you know,

she's mean to everybody, so everybody's mean to her. But she's him and he's nice. Absolutely. Maybe this is where we can sort of like get into the Texas conversation because I do, again, I think the thing that the movie does best is it really paints this very sort of small town aspect of this is all the reasons, you know, petty or it's not like this woman was a tyrant. It's not like this woman was like, you know, the woman in Gremlins, the mean old lady who runs the bank or something like that, right? She's just sort of like low-key, unfriendly to everybody. She's mean to her, people who work for her, and she's withholding of her money. And the whole town is like this monster.

And then because of that, and because they love Bernie so much, they, you know, basically quit him in the court of public opinion. I imagine Kevin this sort of feel. true to life for, as you said, sort of small town, Texas, small town everywhere, but like specifically small town Texas. Yeah, no, it's really, I mean, part of it, part of what makes it feel so true to life is that he casts true to real people. So I don't know if we've actually said this, but the sort of big gimmick of this movie is that with a couple of exceptions, McConaughey's mom being one and the guy who actually

does say the map sequence, they're professional actors. But by and large, beyond them, the talking heads that you see throughout the movie, who are mostly presented as talking heads a la a documentary style, but a lot of them do wind up having, like, acting well, they are all real citizens of Carthage, many of whom actually knew Bernie and Marjorie, which is such a fantastic choice. because I think when Texas is portrayed in media, if it doesn't come from somebody who really knows Texas and I mean that on all levels. Like

Richard Linklater knows Texas, but I'm talking about even the actors, the other people involved and everything. I think it leans into stereotype really easily. I think it's remarkable how much like you don't really see like Danny Buck obviously being the exception to this, but you don't really see like

people in cowboy hats in this movie. Like it's not But you don't see everybody dressed in flannel all the time. And I think those are things that you see a lot. I think people get Texas confused with the South in a way. Oh, the first time I made that mistake, you'll never forget it. The first time you ever accidentally call Texas the South, you will be corrected and definitively. Kevin steps in with a banjo and says the St. Texas. But it is, this, Carthage is interesting, as the guy lays.

out in the map, because it's sort of where the south begins, it's actually sort of a harder task because you have to bring in some of those Southern sensibility things without losing the fact that this is Texas. So bringing the real people into it to me is like you're not going to get a more accurate feeling of it all. And you can feel that come through in the professional actors performances because they're surrounded by all these people. So they like, calculate properly.

So Sonny Davis is the name of that actor who does the scene with the map of Texas, which is, I think it's one of those things that every once in a while, it'll go viral. And he talks about the sort of Western Texas being the ranches and the people in Dallas with their Mercedes and the carcinogenic coast of Houston. At the South is where Tex meets Mex. My personal favorite as a of course, the People's Republic of Austin. The People's Republic of Austin And I wait, I wrote it down With a bunch of hairy-legged women And liberal fruitcakes

Which is like Um Love that So you are originally from Austin This is what you were I was born in San Antonio But we knew when I was seven I want to like

My memories of growing up in Texas Are based in Austin Yeah And now it's funny Because my mom is actually back in San Antonio So like I don't really go to Austin anymore The other thing about the other thing about Austin is sorry to any Austinites listening but like you if you're natives you

probably actually agree Austin is not a great city anymore because everybody has moved there everybody went there yeah yeah it's it's the funny thing where now if uh if I go back and I tell people I'm from Austin like what you're from Austin like you're originally yeah are people from Austin is that does that a thing that happens I become the LA thing we're like nobody's like nobody's from Austin and it's a bummer because like a lot of like long standing places have closed down because they can't afford the rent anymore yeah the original thread gills which is like a um uh sole home style cooking place jennis joplin was a big frequent musical uh appearance there like plays with loads and loads of history

uh had to close because of that and it just was so so emblem of me of like not to be an asshole but like get out of my city like sure yeah yeah yeah uh people sort of make the punchline about the keep austin weird thing but that was sort of the impetus around it was to sort of like hold on to whatever identity that austin has and that was and that was before all this stuff like that yeah here is from the 2000s when like the threat to austin being weird was not really there it was almost like a more culturally thing of just like don't bring your dorkiness to our you know or your hipsterness star city the first big thing was michael dell was um was based out of uh austin and so del was bringing a lot of tech there and at the time that felt like a big threat if i could go back in time

and tell everybody hey so you don't know what's coming imagine that with apple amazon uh at uh all these different places and it's just turned into such so it was funny to hear the description of it as you as you mentioned it does sort of feel like an austin that kind of know longer exists. I can't remember what I saw a depiction of San Antonio on TV. They might have had an NBA draft there recently or something, but I remember, or no, you know what, it might have been a college bowl game, actually, at the Alamo Dome, I think, is in San Antonio.

I don't know. Whatever it was, they were doing B-roll of the, you know, sort of whatever downtown, there's maybe a waterfront area in San Antonio. It looks so gorgeous, a river walk, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That area looks so gorgeous and cute and like absolutely immediately made me want to go and like check it out. It's a really cute city and I would argue it's sort of holding the line the best in terms of because there's four major Texas cities. Five, if you want to throw in El Paso, I'm not going to out of disrespect to Beto O'Rourke.

but the four major Texas cities are Austin, San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas. Dallas kind of was lost from the start. Dallas became the stereotype. That oil money settled in. Listen, we were never winning that battle. Houston's an interesting place. So I actually really like Houston. It's the gayest city in Texas.

Yeah. It has a really cool vibe to it. It's not, it's, it's sort of un-Texis in a lot of ways. Like, you don't go to Houston and go like, wow, this feels like I'm really like in Texas right. Right, right. Houston feels like its own effect. And then we just talked about Austin. San Antonio, to me, is the one that's holding the line best in terms of growing, but still really keeping its cultural.

And the river walk is a huge part of that. If you've ever, God, I was supposed to say if you've ever seen miscongeniality, which is a hilarious thing to say. To ask two gay men, yeah, yeah, yeah. What does this movie you speak of? I don't know. Speaking to the audience, if any of you listening to this have not seen miscongeniality, pause. Go do it. Yeah.

Come back. That is your new priority. Congratulations, you know all of the light jacket memes that you've been seeing for all of these years. Yeah. But that's set in San Antonio. And I always think about it as like one of the few movies that's actually based in San Antonio. Because it's just, it's not a place that people think about a lot in Texas when you have. bigger cities like

Austin and Dallas Yeah think about So the scene where My only Texas experience was recently having a six-hour flight delay in the Austin airport

Austinites listening How do you live like this? That airport is truly from the depths of hell I had to stand at a buffet table because I couldn't find anywhere to sit

and I stood at that buffet table and sobbed my way through I am Celine Dion like Get some chairs in there. Jesus. Wide in the pathway. The one thing is that the food at the Austin airport is fantastic.

Well, I mean, I think I ate like twice. I was there so long. So, obviously, the locals are such a fantastic part of this movie. I had to come up with a list. So I went and jotted down as much detail as I could. I went through the movie a second time and wrote down my top 10 Carthage Townspeople in Bernie. So this all includes some of the professional actors, some are, you know, amateurs all based on vibes. So my number 10, these are all actors' names, by the way.

Some of them do get character names at some point. Number 10 is Billy Vatacalos, who plays Marjorie's hairdresser, who has just the most hilarious dead animal on his head as he's talking about how sad he is that Marjorie never came back. It's so sad. What's that? Oh, heartbroken. Yes, he's so sad. It's wonderful. Number nine is Pam McDonald, who is the one with the sort of nondescript brown top.

the tasteful pop of turquoise in her necklace. She's the one who says that he must have wanted to get caught because all he had to do was put her body on one of his airplanes and fly her over the Gulf and push her out, which I laughed my ass off at that. Number eight is Kay McConaughey, who I think is not as fun as everybody else is. I don't want to give, like, give, like, disrespect to Matthew's mom.

There's something a little too performery about her in this movie as compared to some of the, the other great ones, but I'm willing to be overruled. I really like her, but it's, it's, so, so her two big scenes are the one I was talking about earlier, which is the, um, the lingerie thing, which I think works so well because you have the other person there laughing. Yeah. Um, the other scene, which I don't like as much. And it's not, it's not really her fault.

It's kind of, she's tasked with carrying plot, um, is the scene where she's, she and, um, the guy from the math. What's his name? Sonny Davis. When they have to interrogate Danny Buck about... Danny Buck, yeah. Yeah. That part to me, she was being asked to do more than...

I think that's a very well-written scene because the two of them are just coming up with like every excuse and everything that Danny Buck says to them just like bounces off of them without even like penetrating where he's just like, no, he confessed and they're like, you know he couldn't have heard a fly and that kind of thing. Number seven is Ira Bounds, who is the sort of white hair, white mustache man with the denim overalls and the little glasses, if you remember, who gets the one who gets the singular fuck, right? He says it a couple of times. I feel like he gets two of them, but maybe I'm misremembering. He definitely says it at least once. He has that line that I cracked up at where it's so subtle, but he talks about how Bernie was really good as a funeral director. And he says, no matter what happened, Whether it was car wrecks or heart attacks or household poisons or guns left locked and loaded around the house or choking on a piece of meat, it's just like, it's just like he keeps thinking of other ways that other people can die. It's just great. Number six is Glenda Jones, who is the woman at the convenience store behind the counter of the convenience store with that magenta blouse, whose voice is scratchy, but not quite as scratchy as other people on this list. Who had the line, and her nose was so high she'd drown in a rainstorm, which I had to pause. and sort of, like, think of the physics of that, but it's also just a phenomenal, like, old, like, downhome phrase.

Just a mean thing to say about somebody. I loved it. Number five, Sylvia Froman, who is one of the ladies in the church group. She is the one who is of the opinion that while the Bible says Jesus turned water into wine, it did not specify that it was liquor store wine. It had to be non-alcoholic wine because it didn't have time to ferment. Which is just a tremendous line that she delivers so, so well. Number four, Kenny Brevard, who has the line early on about Marjorie where he says she would chew your ass out at the drop of a hat. I mean, she'd rip you a brand new three-bedroom, two-bath, double-wide asshole.

He also suggests that Bernie could have smothered Marjorie with a pillow and nobody else would know. Just like, just the absolute sort of like most diabolical stuff coming from this like very sweet-faced man. Number three is Molly Fuller, who's ensemble I would describe as red and wild. She has the sort of like the blouse with the big red rose on it and the red pants and this sort of the kicky red scarf who looks sort of like she could be June Squibb's younger sister, perhaps. She tells the story about Marjorie refusing to donate the land to the church because she didn't like the pastor. And she goes, he wore Bermuda shorts on his day off.

And then she says Bermuda, it's so good. Number two is Sonny Davis, who, a professional actor or not, just absolutely knocks it out of the park with the People's Republic of Austin thing, but really comes into his own when they move the trial to St. Augustine, and he reads that town for filth on multiple occasions. So funny. I had to write it all that. He says that Bernie would have to explain himself to a bunch of St. Augustine cousin counting rednecks over there. He says they got more tattoos than teeth and they ain't got a brown. rain and the whole dozen of them and they're supposed to decide big things like this. Shoot, I wouldn't let him work on my car. And then later, he goes back it again and he says

that it was the highfalutin first class Bernies of the world. And then there's the let's dig a hole in the backyard and cook something. Put another tire on the fire, George. I'm cold. So cracks me up. Talk about the library being open. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Sonny Davis, come sit next to me. Number one, the absolute undisputed goddess of this movie is Kay Epperson as Lenora, who she's the one who has the great line in the trailer of like, you know, there's some people in this town, honey, would have shot her for $5. And she's the one who talks about the rumors about him being gay. And she says the thing about like, our Lord and Savior always wore sandals and he never married. And he had 12 disciples. And I don't think any of them never married. And she goes, the Apostle Paul, he was a laugh-long bachelor.

And you never heard anybody in the New Testament say there were a bunch of queers. Tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. She's also the one who visits him in prison at the end. And, oh, my God, she's got like five or six A-plus line readings. Absolutely brilliant. She was number one with a bullet for me. So I'm very happy to hear that she's going to have.

Agreed. 100%. Has always been one of it from the first time I saw it. I remember, like, waiting to the credits and, like, jotting her name down because I was like, I love this woman so much. And she was just, you know, there's a video on YouTube where she talks about just sort of like, you know, not a, you know, professional actress. And she's from East Texas and very complimentary of sort of Richard Link Letters process and working with her and all that. And she just seems wonderful. So, loved, love, loved her.

Really tremendous cast, though, top to bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it really works. So I do want to talk a little bit about the fact that this is adapted from a Skip Hollandworth. Yes, please do. Tell us about the story. Give us the story.

Yeah, so I am, my first ever internship was at Texas Monthly. And my dad was a friend of Skip's colleague. Yeah, I mean, this is the kind of story Skip writes. And he's done it far beyond this point as well. actually hitman the newest linklater is also a skip hollons worth oh no kidding oh that's great yes um it is changed to new orleans is the location because of tax uh reasons and oh it's part of the reason it doesn't work as well is because it doesn't feel organic in that way but anyway um no skip is a incredible storyteller this is like this story is emblematic of what

texas monthly does so well and like they've had some ownership changes i think there's some editorship changes. They're not quite at the level they once were, and it's a bummer, because, like, for a long time, like, you couldn't go into, like, a middle to upper class home in Texas without seeing a Texas Monthly on the, um, on the table. Like, it was, it's that. I can't point to another magazine that has the impact in its community the way Texas Monthly did at its peak. Like, you could say, oh my God, the New York or New York Magazine, but like, those are national magazines as much as like Texas Monthly was Texas and still is in many ways what I think works so well about the adaptation and then what I don't love as much about

the adaptation what I really love about it is it captures the kind of exploratory nature of skips journalism like he will come into this story and like He's just kind of looking around as you are at all of these people and welcomes you into the world and really makes you feel like I'm, I'm seeing this all through his eyes as he's learning about it as well, but never, never unconfident, never, you know, stuttering. It's just really, it's really, really, really sharp work. Unfortunately, the one thing I don't love about this movie, and it stuck out the most for me this time is, because it feels like a magazine article, because literally the structure is like a magazine article,

the movie kind of doesn't have a plot until very late. And even then, it's kind of easily resolved. Like, when I was putting together the plot description, I was like, well,

yeah, I guess the plot at the end of the day is that he kills her and then is tried and then, and then, convicted but like that that just kind of happens like there's not really any question as to what's going to happen there and it ends in the same place that it begins because it begins as sort of you know people sort of reminiscing about the story which is you know a lot of

movies sort of do it that way but there I think that's right I think I don't mind it so much personally well it's really slice of life in a way that I like I can put this on and just feel warm because it's Texas and all these things. Yeah. I really, really enjoy the movie. But I don't know if I quite think it's a movie. I think it's kind of a fictional documentary,

but also not fictional because it's... Sure. It blends all that stuff really well, and I think it ultimately works for what it is, but I don't know if I watch it and I go, like, I feel really satisfied by watching this story from beginning to end. Sure. I think that aspect of it, though, kind of dovetails with another aspect that I really like about the movie, which is it's very much not a moralistic tale at all.

No. Like, in neither Bernie nor Marjorie nor the townspeople, nor really Danny Buck. Danny Buck's the closest who gets sort of a moral judgment in this. And even still, Danny Buck is written so sort of lightly. with such a light touch and it's funny, the scene where he talks about the scheme to catch the deadbeat dads with the hands on a hard body contest

is so fucking funny. And it's such a funny little aside. And all it really does is kind of make Danny Buck in his little sort of like small time but thinks he's bigger time way look good at his job. You know what I mean? Like he did ultimately get the like change of venue,

which was good for the thing. But I think in general, this is not a movie that says like Bernie was this killer operating in plain sight and he was able to use the fact that the town liked him to get away with murder and it wasn't also saying

Marjorie was you know this certainly the movie does not take the opinion that killing Marjorie was any kind of like good thing but it also doesn't take this sense of like Marjorie was this

sort of victim of this predatory person because it does not hold back from Marjorie being racist and horrible and, you know, wielding her money over the people she worked with and whatever. And it just, it, and I think it's, it's not even like, sometimes movies try that and it's like, oh, well, you're just sort of trying to have your cake and eat it to. And I think what Link Letter does with Bernie is just sort of like steps back and it's just like, this is the ecosystem of a town like this. And this is sort of how this kind of story happens and is, you know, and is possible. Well, link later is also not one to push too.

But I do think that the kind of overarching idea behind this story is that like this is not just how a small town operates, but maybe this is how America operates where we can forgive certain bad behaviors that we can, you know, try to understand or. rationalize, but we can forgive things because we like that person or, yeah. It is the ultimate lesson of any survivor jury, which is, if we like you, everything you did can be interpreted along the lines of being good gameplay and good jury management and good whatever. Is this where we start talking shit about Kensi again? Well, I think, no, I mean, sure, but also just in general, I think that if we don't like you, everything you do can be seen through the lens of being underheaded and, and the guy who plays, the guy who has passed away, whose name I also now have forgotten again.

Oh, Dial? Yes. Who has this great Rick Dial, who has this great scene where he talks about after we've gotten to the murder and who talks about how, shit, I wrote this down too, because I didn't want to forget it. Sorry, bear with me one second. He said, he talks about how Bernie was very sweet. and Marjorie was not nice. And he immediately makes the jump from Marjorie was not nice

and he goes evil really. And he says you've got this sweetness and you've got this evil and they're battling each other and she was just more evil than he was nice. And it's like it like that jump from we think Marjorie was not nice

to Marjorie was evil. And so now the battle in this is Marjorie's evilness won the day and that's why she got murdered is a really right kind of twisted way to do it, but the way that link letter lays it out, it's like, yeah, that makes perfect sense that they would think this. So

it's smart. I don't know. I think I kind of feel like that's also goes hand in hand with, like, that's kind of what I, where I think the movie's greatness really is in like the things you were just kind of describing, but it also goes hand in hand with that loose blotiness.

Like, if there is a link later thing, maybe the link later thing is local color. Even if it's just the local color, of a single individual. Like, that is what a link later movie is. And I don't know. I mean, like, I kind of came away from this rewatch with an even better point of

view on this movie than I maybe had when I first watched it. And I think it's like one we should talk about when we talk about Link Later in a way. Though I wouldn't say it's one of his very best movies. I do think it's probably one of his best comedies. It's so funny. It's so, so consistently very funny. It's probably his funniest movie I think a thing to remember here

And I know it's in the notes So I know we're going to talk about it So maybe now is the time But in terms of thinking about this In Linklater's filmography The last Of the trilogy comes text And then

Of the before trilogy, yeah, yeah And then shortly after that is Boyhood So like This was kind of made to be swallowed In thinking about In yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah he's sort of like shaking the sillies out right he shakes the sillies out and then he makes before midnight and boyhood he's about he's about to basically hit his peak as a filmmaker right right right after this movie is released

in terms of public recognition absolutely and like you you know I think link later is sometimes discussed now like how does link later not really have an Oscar and so much of it goes back to like the thing that it is that we do here of like this is all an ecosystem is not a filmmaker issue, you know, link later. If screenplay awards were less tied to the best picture category, I think he probably would by now because he's had so many movies that stand out as screenplay movies before sunset being one in particular that he was actually nominated for. But of course, it's that, you know, when before sunset gets nominated in 2004, it's like, well, it's great that it got nominated. It's not in the conversation to win because it didn't get nominated. anywhere else and it's kind of crazy this wasn't nominated for screenplay actually like what was happening in that category that year it's an excellent question argo oh right argo wins adapted so this is yeah yeah and if it and if argo hadn't um lincoln would have because remember that this

was the year i shouldn't say it now because i'm into this was the year where tony kushner's husband was not too thrilled with Argo because of Argo sort of bulldozing that Oscar narrative with sympathy like everybody feel bad for Ben Affleck and it worked real well down to the point where Argo wins best screenplay over Lincoln.

But what else was nominated by it? What were the other three slots? Hold up, please. Yeah, I'm pulling it up too. Was Silver Lang's playbook? Adapted? Yeah, I think so Well, it was definitely adapted, but I don't know if it was nominated or not. It was nominated. Life of Pie is in there. I'm sorry.

I love Life of Pie. I love Life of Pie. It does not need a screenplay nomination. I agree. These, I think, absolutely should deserve its... Beasts of the Southern Wild, yeah. That is... I would replace Life of Pie with Bernie in this line. Isn't it wild, though...

I play Argo with Bernie in this category. Oh, well, I'm living in a world where I can't suck that. that was happening a matter of what Kevin wants to look at the reality where the runaway train

the brakes are gone you cannot stop the train I have never like I think about that whole awards run so often in that like Ben Affleck

became an underdog to root for BC wasn't nominated for best director meanwhile the person who was really snubbed that fucking ear

was Kevin Bigelow for Zero Dark 30 yes but the narrative of and Catherine Bigelow was you like torture. You love torture so much. You love torture and you already have an Oscar. Also that

I love that in that scenario that we just went through that Chris is Kyle Chandler coming to the door and saying, what are we going to do about Argo? And Kevin is Sarah Paulson at the door saying I can't help you about that. So

this is the dynamic here. And I love that. Yeah, you know, you're totally right though. This was 2012 is, it was the first year that I ever wrote, got to write about the Oscars professionally, which was very fun. So sometimes I feel like I maybe like place a little bit more importance, but like it is a narrative-wise, fascinating Oscar year to talk about because you've got the Ben Affleck thing. You have the Catherine Bigelow thing that you just mentioned. You also have the, this sort of like insurgency with Beasts of the Southern Wild and Amor in which they're like so far out. This was, I think, one of the first years where we really got a sense of like, oh, a top 10 best picture list really is going to allow a lot of different types of movies that we wouldn't really have thought were in the mix to be in the mix this year.

You have Ang Lee sort of like winning his second best director award as an afterthought. You have Jennifer Lawrence tripping on her way to the stage and then being like flirted with by Jack Nicholson. which we talked about 8 billion times. One of my favorites. You've got that weird best supporting actor year where they were all previous winners. Both of those Django wins are just like, well, I guess. Well, I fucking guess.

Oh, that's right. It won a screenplay. It was shudder as hell did. But Tarantino, there has never been anyone sweatier looking who has won an Oscar than Quentin Tarantino going up to the stage to accept his Oscar for that movie. So, okay, can we talk about the supporting actor thing for a second? Because I actually think about that, first of all, this is the year that McCona Hay should have been nominated for Magic Mike, which I- Yes. Yes, 100%. Go back to our Magic Mike episode. Before we talk about McCona-Sense, I do want to say that, I think, unlocked the Oscar's willingness to throw statues at actors a lot more easily than they used to, like, second or second. Yes. I think you're right about that. I think that's a good theory.

It was a year where nobody had a real narrative to win that Oscar, and they just liked Christoph Waltz. They had just sort of awarded that performance a couple years before, so they were like, sure, why not again? It's very similar to Mahershal Ali winning a second for Greenberg. It happens with Mahershalla in that it's just sort of like, well, we like him, and this movie is a one we like. I also think there's an element of what Christoph Waltz gets to do in that movie,

if you're someone who doesn't like Jango Unchained, you might like his big moment in that movie. Yeah, I just think, listen, I hate Jingo Unchained. I think it's, I hate it too. I think it's his worst movie by like a garden mile, but...

Oh, it's not as bad as Hateful Eight. Hateful Eight is... That's fair, that's fair. Wait, but Kevin, you're building up to something and I want to... Yeah, yeah, yeah, get there. Sorry, uh, Dengo, I hate Jingo. I think you were talking,

you were about to mention Francis McDormand, I'm pretty sure. Oh, yes. That's exactly. So now we have an issue where Francis McDormand is just getting Oscars thrown at her when like, I think in a world where Crystal Valtz does not win this one, Carrie Mulligan now has an Oscar for promising a woman. Like that is a lot I am going to draw. I think so often about how we spent like three decades hand-wringing about whether Merrill Streep should have a third Oscar or not. And it finally happens in the weirdest way possible for the Iron Lady. And then, like, not a decade later.

When she makes a movie with Harvey Weinstein is when it happens. Not a decade later, you get Francis McDormon sort of like high step in her way, like dancing into the end zone on her way for her third Oscar for Nomad Land. It's, it's no shade to Francis. I think Francis is, I'm one of those people who actually think she's very, very good in three billboards. So, like, I'm not a huge detractor in that. But, like, it is very interesting that Francis is a three-time Oscar winner now. Yeah. I do think if we lived in a world.

where the Academy liked Lincoln more, which is an insane thing to say because it was the nomination leader. Yeah. But if they liked Lincoln more, I think Tommy Lee Jones would have easily won. Who wins supporting that year?

Is that Hathaway? Yes. Okay. Because I was going to say, I think if they like Lincoln more, we're also looking at Sally Field three-time Oscar winner, but I don't think Hathaway was not losing.

That's the, again, another fantastic narrative, which was the whole lay mis thing, which feels now from this angle, like a huge gaslighting campaign in which I fully admit that I was among the people, not about Hathaway specifically, but about like, I remember being so wrapped up in the whole lay miss thing and about how they're singing live and all this sort of thing. And it's never been done this way, whatever. And I remember watching that

sort of half trailer, half promo reel in theaters and being just like, oh, this is going to be great. And even I saw the movie, and I remember being like, no, that was not, that was good. You know, that kind of tone, where you're just like, no, it's, it's fine. And then, you know, whatever. Redmayne wasn't having a seizure and didn't need medical attention when he was singing. Like, it was great. They were definitely singing live all of the time. I think Hathaway is very good in that movie.

And even still, I'm like, I, you know, find a way for her Oscar to be for Rachel getting married instead of Le Miz. Okay, but here's the thing about the lame-miss thing, looking back on it, is like, Cooper has now unveiled himself as a nightmare with cats. Red Main is now revealing himself as a nightmare

with Cabaret. Samantha Barks was supposed to be, you know... I don't know what you're talking about cabaret. Sorry. Samantha Barks was supposed to be the young promise and we've just never heard from her ever again. Meanwhile... He has a residency at the Hollywood Bowl where anytime anything is performed at the Hollywood Bowl,

She is just sort of there. She is the phantom of the Hollywood Bowl. She lives under the Hollywood Bowl. You have to go past a moat. And then there's just like a candle set layer. Samantha Barks just hangs out of. But the one person who got actually dog piled on for that movie, we've now reconsidered and love her now.

So it's... And also Russell Crowe, who is now experiencing a huge renaissance in his career with his Vespa for the Pope's Exorcist. Amanda Seyfried is probably the one person who liked True Neutral throughout all of that. Nobody remembers she was the best performance in the movie. She escaped unscathed.

Talk about leaving through the catacombs under the city. Like she at one point was just like look over there and then like pieced out. It was great. Yeah. Yep. Is Amanda Seifred going to win an Oscar in her career? See, she's like one of those weird ones who like

her ecosystem is like living on a farm. Like that Mank nomination wouldn't trade it for the world, A, because love her in the movie. But like, by the grace of God, she got that nomination, I feel like. That was really second. Yeah, more so than I would have thought. But yes, you're totally, especially because it turns out they loved Mank because Mank won like several craft awards that year. Does Mink win any of those Oscars in not a COVID year, though?

I think we have to say that for so many of those movies that, like, yeah. I think probably cinematography because they do love those black and white movies. movies in cinematography, but you're not wrong. Like, you're not entirely wrong. You need a cinematography. Did you all see who's the cinematographer of this movie? No. No, cool, please. Dick Poop.

Oh, my God. Dick Poop. Yeah. It is Dick Pooh. Oh, we love him. Mike Lee's own, Dick Pope, the great Dick Pope. I was on, um, a couple years ago, I was on Sam Sanders's podcast. And talking about the Oscars, it was like pre Oscars or whatever.

And I can't remember what, of course, when I get on podcasts that are not my own, and I just sort of like start like motor mouthing about like eight billion things at once because I'm like, I'm trying to like get it all out. And I just sort of like casually mentioned, I'm like, oh, well, like the Cheryl Boone Isaac's thing that went viral with, with Dick Poop. And he's just like, excuse me. And I got so happy because I got to tell somebody the story of Dick Pooh. And it was so great. You didn't, you don't know. I'm going to, sorry, just hit my mic. it's truly like

I feel like Santa Claus on those days where I'm just like let me tell you the story about how Cheryl Boone Isaacs said Dick Poop on national television is great Has there been a more impactful Academy president than Cheryl Boone Isaacs? Like no

she really freaked that let her replace Biden on the ballot and she had she got she got shit done period he had memes like yep yep yeah listen we want to talk about meming your way to success with a potential candidate that we've been talking about, you know.

Yes. Also, as I said before, Chris Pine's ability to absolutely be unflappable in that moment is the best acting of his entire career. I always forget also that Cheryl Boone Isaacs truly was just like, I'm going to have the hottest men in Hollywood announce. Yes, yes. Whereas like previous academy presidents were like every year, it was like, well, it has to be somebody who has been nominated and supporting actress before.

And so it's like... And, you know, again, Queens, of course, for us, because it's like Marsha Gaye Hardin and Kathy Bates and Sigourney Weaver. Who me? And, well, and Salma. And then, and then we get to Cheryl Boone Isaacs. And she truly is just like Hollywood chrises and, like, take each arm. And get me Chris has worked immediately. Get Glenn Powell on it for this year.

Actually, I would put $5 down on a bet for that right now that Glenn Powell will announce the Oscar nominees. Do you remember the year that the cast of the event? Carried Cheryl Blue and Isaacs into the nominations on a sedan just sort of like on their shoulders just Leopatra style it was great. It was fantastic. We talked about it briefly

and I know y'all have talked about it on the podcast before but I do think it's worth noting that this is McConaissance era movie. Oh yeah. It's my opinion. I think this is the most underrated movie of the McConaissance. I think it's the one that nobody talks about.

It bleeds so safely into Killer Joe. People talk about Killer Joe far more often then they talk about Bernie, and I think he's so funny in this movie. People talk about mud more than they talk about Bernie. A movie that You do love mud here, but yes, you're totally right. Yes. Here's the, here's just a quick timeline of the McConaissance

because I feel like we've done basically every movie. We've done all of them except for Killer Joe, yes, we have. Except I don't think we've done the full timeline. It really does start with a Lincoln lawyer. Like, the Lincoln lawyer made money, those are popular books. Then Killer Joe and Bernie both do

festivals in 2011 get released. in 2012. He has the can one-to-punch, if you call it that, of the paperboy in mud. Mud opens in 2013, but you also have that summer of 2012, Magic Mike, 2013. You have him in Dallas Buyers Club, winning his Oscar, and also basically the trailer of Wolf of Wall Street. And then, like, the finale of the McConnoissance is True Detective and Interstellar. Yes, and then it's over, because then it is. sea of trees, free state of Jones, gold, dark tower, white boy Rick.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And the best one that follows that is Serenity, which is only a plus in his column if you are deeply demented like, I am and so many of collateral beauty was a video game. But it's incredible the run of absolute nightmare movies. And the only good ones in there are animated ones, which don't really like count in his favorite, like Kubo in the Two Strings, or Sing, which I know is sing is demented, but sing is a success. It's wild.

It's wild to me. And then also he decides he's going to become like a, like, crypto politician during all of this, where he's just like, I'm going to like, every once in a while just sort of like opine on the national direction of things. It's just like, oh, my God. Good in this movie, though. Very good in this movie. He's winning critics prizes this year.

They double it up for this and Magic Mike, and some of them. I feel like we maybe said this in our Magic Mike episode. The thing is, like, I do think he's great in this movie. But if those Critics Prizes had just given it to him for Magic Mike, instead of doubling up the movies, I think he could have had a better shot at getting nominated for Magic Mike. I think that's right. I think if the McConaissance is spread out even by a few years,

if, like... Bernie, Mud, Magic Mike, Dallas Byers Club, Wolf of Wall Street, are like all different movies. I think you could have gotten him to the point where he gets to the Oscar for Magic Mike first.

Weirdly, there's not much build to the McConaissance. It's just kind of happen. And big part of this is the most McConaissance performance is not a movie. It's True Detective Season 1. Yes.

I rewatched that recently. I know that like we've come to the point where, like, nobody liked Nick's Pizza Pasta, and, like, nobody, um, everybody sort of, like, makes fun of that sort of style of what, you know, that highly stylized dialogue and whatever, but, like, watching that season again, it's a plus television. It's so, so good. Do you just feel that way because it's nothing but C plus television right now? Well, well, except for Love Island, USA, the best show on television. Listen, we are into season three of claim to fame right now, so I don't want to hear about bad television. No.

Worth noting, though, because we don't really, the McConnoissance, I think, keeps people from realizing this. But Matthew McGonet's Oscar is the only time he was nominated. Yeah. And I feel like he's probably never getting nominated again. He was never in a conversation about an Oscar before that. Like, it was never, even in his best stuff.

even in his oscariest stuff. His oscariest movie before he gets nominated is Amistad, a movie that he was never once talked about as a contender. Like, Jaiman Hansu was talked about as a contender, but he wasn't. What's the time to kill? Yeah, which is collar pull the movie, like, just entirely. But he is excellent in it. He is. And cute as a button, let me tell you.

Like there's a scene where like Sandra Bullock just sort of like peaks at him under a sheet and I'm just like good girl. Like that is He's also in contact in some of the funniest let's throw a romance subplot into this thing because we have to

kind of a scenario that has ever existed. Why has Hollywood just stopped making Jungersham movies? I actually haven't really thought about that. He's not stopped writing them. I'll say that much. Is he writing those? I mean, I think they stopped making them because he stopped printing books that he actually wrote.

That's possible. There are books that are going out under his name. There's like a time to kill sequel, basically. Like, there's stuff. I remember hearing about that. There was also a sequel to the firm, I'm pretty sure. That was there. I'm not like that if so.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was like in high school, I was like, oh, it was a very formative. Like, when I first started reading books, it was like in the thick of, the initial John Grisham era. And so I read all of those books.

And I read all of it was Grisham, Stephen King, and Michael Crichton. Like you could not get me, I should have been born in an airport because like that is how that was just like how I read things. Not the Austin Airport. Uh, yeah, apparently not. That would be like, you would be like. So now the list of, I'm going to like, unfur all the like list of Chris's grudges. And it's Ransom Missouri, Tom Tickver, and now the Austin Airport. The Austin Airport.

Being born in the Austin Airport would be like being the baby born at the end of mother. I swear to God. It is that overcrowded. People are that deranged. Poor Chris got his neck snapped. Not in the good way at the Austin Airport. Yeah. Ernie has actually a pretty good precursor run.

It's a Globe nominee. AARP Movies for Grown Up Best Comedy Win over. Moonrise Kingdom and the best exotic Marigold Hotel, it should be noted. Can we talk about who should have been nominated for at least one thing for this movie, and that is Richard Robeshow as Lloyd Hornbuckle, Marjorie's accountant.

First of all, I love a movie that allows me to listen, as queer people, we are allowed to write our own subplots into movies that maybe don't exist. And my head canon that Lloyd and Bernie are ex-lovers is so strong and so clear

and this is why Lloyd is so dead set against Bernie. The scene where he calls him in his finest silk pajamas and says, all the police have to do is find a shred of evidence and it's off to hell you go. And it's

just so, I don't know, it's perfect. I love him so much. Yeah. It's a great performance. You're right that it's not in the text but like there is clearly this like he plays the why is Bernie getting this treatment that I've never gotten from her element really well yeah it's a performance that I don't remember when I'm not watching the movie because he's not a both of his name in the way that McLean and McConaughey and he's also not the Carthage residents right I kind of do

neat. He's more of the third heat between the three of them than McConaughey is honestly because he doesn't come into the bit. McConaughey has no association with Marjorie. Like Danny Bucking. Did you say the third heat like you were Jack Donagie selling microwaves? Okay. No, thank you. Yeah.

Any kinds of heat. Yeah. Tracy Jordan. Kevin is nothing if not the gay Jack Donagie. That is truly some. Complimentary. Parentheses, complementary. Perrathesis is very complimentary. Days since Baldwin's acquittal your calling.

Fair. Fair. Fair. Listen, we're talking about a movie that it's like if you shoot someone but we like you. Yeah, but that doesn't apply to Baldwin. This is not a private Alec Baldwin. It would apply to you. Did you all see that Eminem talked about home your hunch on one of the new?

I can't. No. I was like, what? Does he have a new thing that he's promoting? because I've seen a lot of people talking about Eminem. He released the album on Friday. It's Dave Chappelle, the album. Like, he hates trans people.

He hates... It makes all the sense in the world. I have seen so many people expressing, like, just oceans of self-embarrassment and regret of, like, I can't believe we all floated in the idea that Eminem was so talented for so long. I feel like acknowledging Eminem in the year 2024 as a thing that's currently happening. is also like a self-own. Like, we should just let that man go do whatever he wants to do.

The more and more you think about the years of like 2000 to 2006-ish, it just feels, it's like nothing good ever. Like, it's all bad. I feel like anytime I see a picture of that man, like, today, like, it looks like his hair plugs are bleeding actively in the photo. Like, that man is none of our business, none of anyone's business in the year 2024. Well, and it's, it's kind of funny that this is happening alongside the Katie Perry Pylon also happening. Also, yeah, we are rejecting the past. We are not returning or whatever. We are rejecting tradition.

The thing about the Katie Perry thing is it's a, it's a market saturation thing, which is like, in a time where we were, where we were maybe more starving. for pop girls i think people might be more willing to sort of like accept whatever katie perry is throwing out there but like we are at a point where we are like over over capacity with pop girls like we absolutely do not need katy perry in this world right now as a pop star we like weirdly don't have room for duelipa who's last album right right and we're single songs a hit like is wild. And here's the thing. All the pop girls we already had were already releasing music this year. And then we have Sabrina Carpenter. And then we have Chapel Rhone. And then we have a Lady Gaga Best Actress, FYC campaign ahead of us. Like, what the hell? Heck yeah. I'm so excited. I'm not excited. I do. I cannot always. And another album, probably. Speaking of women competing for a spot at the top,

the Miss Senior Carthage pageant moment in this movie is so funny. The line where Bernie is talking about the one, he says, Ida says she does not like knitting, crocheting, gardening, cooking fancy food, housework, or artsy hobbies. And this lady's just there with like a stone face. I would like to say if there is anyone out there hosting or organizing a senior lady beauty pageant, I would like you to know that the three of us are very available

to host this event. And our quote is so reasonable. Genuinely, like, our quote is very reasonable. All of the, like, town business stuff is really good. Like, you want to draw a funny line. This year is the year of Lamezorab and Hugh Jackman. And, of course, they do a production of the Music Man, which go on.

76 trombones, maybe. Oh, right. Would 100% watch? Jack Black in the music man. Absolutely. You do think of waiting for Guffman so often in this movie. And it's like it's complimentary to both of those things, I think, is probably the way to go. You brought out Christopher Gess earlier and you brought up that like it may not have worked.

And I think you're right about that. To go back to my point of like, you actually need the Carthage residents for this to not feel stereotypical of Texas. Like I can see a version of this with Christopher Gess that feels with very stereotypical. Foresty, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need Linklater's native light touch for that. The thing that works best with Christopher Guest is not when he goes sort of geographical, but sort of subcultural, you know what I mean? It's just like it's, it's not people are not being sort of sent up for where they are

from so much as like this thing that they have decided to take an interest in of their own sort of their own accord. Well, I think, like, the key to the comedy in the movie is not, like, stereotyp—like, stereotypes. The key to the comedy is people who may or may not be stereotypes being their authentic self. I was going to say— That's where the comedy comes from. You've met these people. You can imagine interacting with these people.

Yeah. All right. Anything else we want to get into before we— get to the game. I guess I do just want to say, like, I feel like I came off as more anti-the-movies plotlessness than I meant to. Like, I actually like what it is. I just was somewhat surprised upon rewatch how little there is in terms of actual

story related to it. And I think that, that if I were to take a second pass, I would maybe just restructure it slightly where it doesn't feel so segmented. Yeah. Like, we basically spend the first 45 minutes on, like, intro before we ever really dive into it. I think there's a way starting in Media Ray or something. There's a way to, like, get us into it a little bit quicker.

But overall, it's such a fucking delight, and I love it. It's very fun. I would also just leave it on, because we didn't really talk. We did. We mentioned how good Jack Black is, but, like, Jack Black is tremendous in this movie. and I would cement. I would kick at least Hugh Jackman out of that best actor lineup

to put Jack Black in there. We know that right now, Richard Linkletter is filming a Lauren's Heart biopic starring Ethan Hawk, Margaret Quali, Bobby Conavale and Andrew Scott, according to Wikipedia. Yes. And I believe has filmed a movie

that is about like the French New Wave somehow. With Zoe Deutsch is in it, I believe. Yeah. I love Zoe Deutsch. Do you really? From what? That's interesting. She's just, okay, so it's like...

That sounded mean. Sorry. I was genuinely... You do? That's great. No, Zoe Deutche is always good. What's the Ryan Murphy thing, Kevin, that you and I both watched? Oh, the politician.

She's genuinely terrible on that. Oh, okay. Well, I've never seen the politician. I feel like I've never seen a bad Zoe Deutsch performance. She's really good in everybody wants some. She is. Oh, yeah. You're right.

All right. No, I did not mean that to sound as backhanded as it came across. It was so bitchy. I like Zoe Deutsch. I like Zoe Deutsch, Dickie. Oh, boy. All right. I'll be in Zoe Deutsch's corner.

Otherwise, go fuck yourself. Once again, back around to the fighter. The fighter sisters, the fighter sisters, like they're the pointer sisters, but they're the fighter sisters. Listen, I get so excited when I... Listen, let them cover... What's my favorite point of sister's song? Fire. Let them cover fire.

There you go. All right. All right. Should we move into the game? Yeah. Would you like to explain the IMDB game for our listeners? Always. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, We mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. All right. Kevin, as our guest, you get to decide how this is going to go if you're going to give or guess first. And from whom? I will give to you, Chris, first. Okay. Let's go. Okay.

So I mentioned that I needed to look at the big list because you all have done 300 episodes now. So I wanted to make sure. really surprised that this person was not on there at all just because I don't know their name like came to me immediately I don't know what was going through my brain that day but she's here um so for you I have Jessica Alba oh okay Jessica Alba is there any television uh do not believe so no okay um what's that surfing movie into the blue no one strike Paul Walker damn I did see that movie mostly because Scott Con is in it and I was deep into my Scott Con obsession at that point. There you go. Honey. Honey, is that the guess? Yeah, honey. How is Honey not known for? So disrespectful to Honey Daniels.

I think you maybe need to think a little bit in a different direction. It's the way I would describe it. I'm going to imagine that there's horror movies. What was that one horror movie that's like trying to be the grudge or at least by the poster it looks like it's trying to be the grudge? Is it called The Return? I don't know. It's not one of the Oh, no, she's in the eye, the eye.

Okay. All right. So your release years are 2005, 2005, 2007, and 2010. Okay. This is going to be hard because I think I've already drained the well on Jessica album movies. No, you're missing a franchise that at least if you haven't seen. Oh, Fantastic Four.

Where? Silver Surfer. Correct. So that's one of the 05s and that's the 07. So you still have an 05 and a 10. Okay. So what else was she doing around one of these has to be a horror movie, but maybe not. One of which she's like on the poster for this movie.

There were like a lot of posters for this movie, but she's on the one that I feel like I see most often. Are you talking about the 05 or the 10 for that? The 05, right? I'm not looking at it, but I think I'm right. Yeah. yeah so a lot of posters like character posters yes okay so it's a sizable a sizable enough ensemble that there would be character posters for this movie and like character posters only happen for big budget movies so this is a studio movie it was it a summer movie or a holiday movie or like

spring interesting why is iMdb not list the You have to, like, go into, like, you, IMDB, I've complained about this before. It was April. It was April of that year. Okay. April of 05. So, like, I'm graduating high school. What's going on at the movies? I feel like, what would I have, like, gone to see while I was graduating high school? I imagine that this movie would not have appealed to you.

based on your long-standing things that straight men like. And so it's a boy movie. It is a boy movie. Yeah. Is it one of the Fast and the Furiouses? No. Pass in the Fury I. No.

I will give you a fairly sizable hint. These two movies are directed by this. Well, a director of both these movies is the same man. Yes. Oh, okay. So one of them is a directing, so there was a directing duo happening. in one of them. Sort of.

There's like a, there's a guest director elements to, yeah, at least one of the other. Oh, is it like a, um, is it a Robert Rodriguez?

So Grindhouse is the 2010. You would think, but that's 2007. Oh, right, right, right. So I was in college when that came out.

Um, Robert, Roder, oh, it's Sin City and Sin City too. Okay. Sin City, I did, see in theaters. It was one of those people

that I was like, I like it, but it's not everything. Cincinnati great trailer movie is also, okay. So Robert Rodriguez stored, is it a Spy Kids movie? No, but you're you're in the right

not in terms of... Shark boy and Lava Girl. No, no, not in terms of genre. You are in the right lane thinking about Spy Kids and people who might have been in Spy Kids. She's the with, I think, in this movie from the looks of the poster.

Good for her. Good for her. In 2010, so I assume she's with a Spy Kids cast member from that hint. In 2010, how this cast is so deeply on that. Maybe adjacent

to Robert Rodriguez's this movie had a sequel starring Lady Gaga among other people Oh, it's Machete There you go Machete Can I read the cast of Machete

for a second? Danny Treo Michelle Rodriguez, Robert De Niro Jessica Alba, Stephen Segal Cheech Marin, Don Johnson, Jeff Fahey,

Shea Wiggum, Lindsay Loham all in Machete. I did see both Machete and Sin City in theaters because while

those movies are definitely for boys they still have women who slay in them so that's a Texas movie as well I should say I didn't realize how well I'd set that up when I picked it. Yeah not bad, not bad. All right so Chris you're giving to me for you

I have chosen Jack Black was nominated for Indy Spirit for Best Lead actor he lost to Mr. John Hawks John Hawks have we not Dungeon and Haas. All right. Apparently not. The Sessions. Correct. Winter's Bone. Correct.

Identity? Incorrect. That's tough. I actually thought you were going to fool for this. Yeah. Is it Martha Marcy May Marlene? Martha Marlene is correct. He's so good in that movie. Um, you see that Maria Dizia, speaking of Martha Marcy May Marlene is the mom in my old ass. I can't wait to see my old ass. I'm very excited for that movie. That's playing here soon. Is it? Remember in what context? I know that that movie did a lot of queer festivals, so maybe that's it.

Nice. All right. So I'm three for four with one strike for Johnny Hawke. Mr. John Hawks, who is in a lot of movies. He is in a lot of movies. Just also in True Detective, speaking of True Detective. Oh, John Hawks. He's also, I feel like I just saw him in a movie recently, too.

John Hawks, John Hawks, John Hawks, and is in like a lot of ensembles. He's in, like, the day after tomorrow or something. something like that. Incorrect. Your year is 2017. Oh. 2017 John Hawks. Oh, is it three billboards outside of Missouri?

It's three billboards. Playing her pain in the ass ex-husband? I should have thought of that. Everybody, everyone like build after the title of three billboards is so hard to remember that they were in that fucking movie, except for my nemesis, my nemesis. Who's your nemesis? Caleb. Oh, Caleb.

Caleb Lander Jones Speaking indecipherable English in that movie Caleb Landry Jones I forget about that part of the movie because that is the part of the movie where I'm like, oh, this is actively homophobic in a way that like is very problematic and I don't like.

This is a movie that asks you to forgive people who hate crime you in a way that I don't think it should. Lucas Hedges, very good in that movie. Okay, so. Where is he? What's that? Lucas Hedges, what's going on?

This is our fine Shelly Miss Cavage on this At Oscar Buzz Isn't he like back in a movie now? Am I? Doesn't he have something coming out or am I? Is he? Lukey was in Shirley

earlier this year on Netflix But that movie was shot like Years ago Well and also like Barely Barely came out. Yeah Lukey we love you

But it's like did something happen During that Brookbat Mountain production Where like Mike Feist took all the All the juice Lucas Hens is like what's going on? It's true. Lucas is still in London. If you've heard from Lucas, tell him to call us.

We miss him. Okay, so I'm giving to Kevin. Correct. All right. So we talked about Richard Linkletters in the works production of Merrily We Roll Along. I have selected an actor who I didn't quite realize their filmography was quite so short. I'm asking you to give the known for for, Beanie Feldstein, who has

seven movies on her entire IMDB. So I'm asking you to give me four of seven. Are they all movies? No TV? No TV. I would have thought for sure. Impeachment with honor. Inpeachment, sure.

Honestly, her live after, you know, the report went out that she was getting fired should be on her known for. Um, shit. Well, obviously, Lady Bird. Yes. Booksmart. Yes. What else is being in it? Oh. I don't remember the exact title, but please give me

personal credit for this, like, how to build a girl or whatever. How to Build a Girl is exactly the title. Oh, that's the title? Oh, yes. Yeah. A movie that Chris and I saw together at Tiff, very late in Tiff, when we were both out of patience, or at least I was. And I did not care for that movie. It's a perfectly fine movie. She has styled like Amy Sherman Palladino on the poster for that film. One more. Unfortunately, I think we might have hit the end of the line here. Yeah, I would have literally thought it was those three and impeachment.

And I am struggling to imagine her. I haven't even seen how to build a girl, but I have seen the Amy Sherman Palladino as poster. I remember that. She also has an English accent in that movie for... Oh. Yes, she sure ass does. It's just like for the gag of it. Yeah.

It's not good. Now, Kevin, I would normally just like barrel right into, because you are our guest, barrel into hints, but you are writing right now a three for three. And I want to give you... Which is what bugs me is I'm doing well, but like... Yeah. No, I know what you mean.

I'm going to pull this up because I'm, I think I know what the fourth one is and if it is, it's a really it's cursed. Oh, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. I'm currently fixating on whether or not she was in a pitch perfect and I don't think she was. I think I'm displacing

what's her name? Bumblebee. Dickinson. Bumblebee. Haley Seinfeld. Disclosing Haley Stinfeld. Okay, quick aside on that. Haley Stainfield from True Grit.

like an entirely different Haley Steinfeld. Yes. Like I actually, if you sold me a Aberloven style conspiracy theory that like this is, I would believe it. Oh my God. She's also been dating. Maybe she's not still dating Josh Allen. But if she is, they've been dating for like two years. And I don't think I've seen a single photo of them together, which is kind of one.

I love that. Keep your piece, Scali. Yeah. But if you're, if you're Haley Steinfeld, you already have an Oscar nomination. and you make like millions upon millions doing like booze commercials in Japan I was going to say in Eastern

do whatever the hell you want Matt I think I literally cannot even It's her very first movie She's not the star of this movie but she's like has a featured moment in the trailer Everybody has absolutely memory hold this movie It's a good movie

Like I genuinely it's the sequel And I think this is a both of these movies are very good. It's a comedy sequel. The two people who are the stars of this comedy sequel were both in a television series together this year that nobody watched but me and I thought it was so good. Wasn't that last year? It was since it's in this Emmy window. So it might have been technically like end of time. Oh, and I have heard absolutely no one mentioned this show in terms of any discussion.

I love it so much. This was also a movie that because it underperf- It's Neighbors-2, Sorority Rising. Remember when Neighbors-2, like, underperformed at the box office, and people were like, it means that people hate women. Yeah. Because Neighbors-2 didn't do good at the box. Neighbors-2 is funny.

Neighbors-one is very funny. So that hint was incredible because I just read your predictions. And I was like, why is Joe mentioning physical? That can't certainly be still on the air. and then I zoomed from there. Wait, I said physical? I thought I said platonic. Oh, I maybe just read physical because I went.

But sometimes if I, like, there's a very good chance I put physical in there because I often do that with those two titles. The fact that she's on Apple with a show called physical and a show called Platonic at the same time. Oh, now I got to go back in there and make sure I didn't make that mistake. You probably are right. I probably just read it as physical, but yeah. If you are out there and want to see. a good television comedy that's genuinely funny and Rose Byrne is bringing it. Go watch Platonic. She has a scene where she's on drugs that like, I know we've all done a scene. Like everybody's got a scene

where they're on drugs. She's quite funny. Why am I love to that? Leo DiCaprio like this. What's that? Are you some tweeting Leo DiCaprio like this? All right. Have we done that thing? I have no, I've seen that movie. I have no conception of Beanie Feltsy in it whatsoever. So the three Beanie Feldstein movies that are not unknown for are something called the female brain and then her two most recent ones,

which are the humans. Good movie. And a good movie, but where she's overshadowed by everybody in that movie. Everybody else in that movie is more memorable than she is. And then driveaway dolls,

which she's a supporting performance and that movie, with Geraldine Viswanathan aside, who I think is wonderful in everything. That movie is annoying as fuck. I'm sorry. Like, it's so irritating drive-away dolls.

I'm glad it wasn't the humans because I would have been mad at myself for not getting that. Yeah. Because, yeah. Obviously, but also, like,

no memory of her in it whatsoever. That's crazy. So, because the thing about it, the two that I got right off the jump, which, uh, book smart and lady,

Lady Bird. I think she is one of the, if not the most memorable part of both of those movies. Sure. And then it's just like, drops off a... Yeah, yes. And the only thing she has upcoming as a movie is merrily.

Like, there's nothing in her IMDB upcoming that is, that it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, the, the, the funny girl thing was genuinely, like, completely destabilizing to her career. Like, yeah. And I also feel like American crime story did not quite go the way that she wanted it to either. Agree. And it's a shame, because I actually think she's pretty good in it. Particularly because American crime story came at the tail end of a wave of, we're going to relitigate the 90s and the way that we treated women in the 90s. And that was like so setting up for like, now this is going to be our ultimate example of this.

And Beanie Feldstein's going to sweep the Emmys. And it just was like, oh, well, we're kind of done talking about that now. There was also the thing of like people didn't know how to watch that show. like it was the first like confusing show of well wait where do I see that right do I watch it like right it's not on Hulu it's on FX oh you don't have FX oh we've so we've successfully convinced everybody to cut the cord and now we have to try and sell this show that is on linear cable someone needs to write something about like a broader like oral history type thing about the mismanagement of American crime story because like I think that whole thing with the Katrina season that never happened is fascinating and I like we were so close to Annette Benning being in the in the Ryan Murphy verse and like I know I know I know and the fact that they went through a whole other story idea with that Sarah Paulson was going to star it and now the the Ryan Murphy projects that didn't get made is also a really like interesting

or especially because you also have the season of feud if I was and Diana that never happened so yeah you're not wrong also So what's going on with FX more broadly right now? Like, people ask me constantly like, what is FX on Hulu? And I'm like, I think that's just FX now. Like, I don't think FX. They don't. It's, it's officially defunct branding.

They don't use it anymore. And yet, practically speaking, it's how you would describe something like The Bear, which is technically an FX show, but the only way to watch it is on Hulu. And it drops all at once. And it drops all at once, which is a stupid way to do that show anyway. After FX, brow beats. journalists for three weeks ahead of time. Not of like all other shows,

you cannot predict which one, like Shogun is on FX linear and on Hulu. The bear is technically an FX show, but is only available on Hulu. I think that's also the case with reservation dogs. It's just, does Hulu have original programming anymore? But besides like Kameen's Tale?

Only more than building. Because I feel like Hulu's been waiting to get like shut down for a few years now. Right. I think they're just sort of like, everything that you can watch on Hulu, you can also watch on Disney Plus right now. So, like, it's coming, which is the great comedy of it all is that Love Victor wound up back on Disney Plus. Also, the fact that, like, where did I watch? I kissed a boy, all entirely on Disney Plus, which like several years ago would not let you watch Love Victor.

It's kind of incredible. Yeah, I, this is probably a subject for a much longer discussion, but like, I just find this all, because I'm a little bit more. more removed from all of this now, right? Like, I'm not writing entertainment channels on draggers who caps anymore. I'm not on Twitter. Like, I don't really keep, somebody just told me. I get paid to cover this and I don't know

all the amounts of it. Like, that's somebody just told me yesterday that Jake Schillenhal's in a new TV show and I was like, sorry, what? I've never left. And I just, I still think of myself, despite those removes, I still fairly plugged in because I have friends like you guys. I have other friends who are, you know, talking about this stuff.

And I feel like I know 10% of what's going on. Like, it is to the point of the physical platonic thing that we were just talking. Like, there's so much content that just nobody talks about and nobody sees. And I don't know. Like, Kevin, I want you on Wednesday to come to me with the Emmy ballot and hand and tell me all of the shows that got nominated for major awards that you've never heard of before. Can we talk about slow horses? A show everyone suddenly was like, hey, slow horses, good show. But yes.

I'm sure it is, but it's not real. You're going to see titles like The Gentleman and Fall Out on your Emmy Ballot, and you're not going to know what's going on. What about fucking Lawman Bass Reeves? Lawman Bass Reeves, a show that implies the existence of other lawmen shows, but there are none. You know what the other one of this is, is the Nicole Kimman one on Paramount Special Ops Lioness? Yes. There are no other special ops.

is this a no not at all you know what started that though the one the one franchise that has incredible name recognition in yellowstone does not name any of its spin-offs yellowstone correct you know where that's all started though was genius remember genius einstein or whatever and like and there were no other geniuses yet and yet it branded it that way um anyway follow me on Instagram to hear more of my ratings No, that's what I want to do though. I want to go to you with the Emmy ballot

and find out just how many of those shows you better. All you're going to get from me is where are the traders and love I load USA? Those are the only two

things I care about. If Alan Cummings not nominated for hosts, I'm going to burn building. Alan Cumming will be. I still think there's a world in which

the traders doesn't get nominated for this reality. I saw your thing. Well, the Emmys don't think Peacock exists. I saw your thing

and I do want to ask about this because I do think it's interesting. So Survivor has not been nominated for a while, for a while. So why is everyone so confidently predicting Survivor is back? Because you're not the only question. It's everybody.

Right. It's a good question. I don't know if I have a solid answer for you for that, except for the fact that it's been around. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like it feels like. Yeah, but I just feel like the traders is the busiest thing. It definitely is. I'm being maybe a little ostentatiously pessimistic about that in that, like, that category is so resistant to change and so resistant to new things.

It also feels like maybe they would be more likely to recognize the traders if it wasn't a celebrity season, oddly enough. And like the celebrity of it helped bring attention to that show. Also, I feel like RuPaul got nominated before Drag Race got nominated. Exactly. One season before, yes. So I just did a little plug. If you are interested in hearing more of my thoughts about Drag Race and other things, I have a newsletter called Whig that you can subscribe to through two through extra.

It comes out every month. I just did an addition where I went through all of the Emmy years that Drag Race was nominated and or was or was not nominated, what's eligible basically and was like, should it have been nominated this year? Should it have won this year, et cetera, et cetera. And the whole great comedy of it is that Drag Race has a lot of Emmys for seasons that it had no business winning any school. and wasn't nominated for the peak of the show. But yeah, season nine is the first time that Rue gets nominated and wins, I believe, right off the back. Sasha the Lord lifted up her wig and Emmy statues to start her falling out.

But the show isn't even nominated that year, which is, instead they nominated for, they've been nominated for 10, 11, 12, 13, or sorry, they've won for 10, 11, oh, did they win for 10? No, I'm getting all this wrong. Sorry, back. Season 8 is the first time Rue wins, but the show is not nominated. Season 9, the show is nominated, but it does not win. Right.

Season 10, the show is nominated and wins, and that happens in 10, 11, 12, 13, not 14, because Lizzo's, watch out for the big girls, wins. And then 15, and then it's probably going to win this year, even though I would happily give it to the traders instead. Yeah, I think it's going to win this year. Yeah. And this will be its most deserved. since Season Cloud. Also, the thing about the Traders is because the Traders drops new American seasons in December, it feels wildly out of date. Like, it's nominated for season two because season one didn't really get nominated for much.

So maybe it has also going through the season where they've ignored it, and now they're going to nominate it this year. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. All right, Kevin, thank you for bringing such rad expertise to this episode, genuinely. like this was very fun. I think we got the exact right guest for this movie. And in addition to your newsletter,

which I will say, if you are perhaps like not watching a season of drag race and you want to follow it anyway, Kevin's newsletter is a fantastic way to do that. So among other... I know a lot of people who are not watching this season, so... Yeah. But otherwise, anything else you would like to plug or to mention?

You have re-rained. I'm sort of. to off the grid these days, but please do Extra. Extra Magazine.com is where I continue to publish Drag Race Recaps. I'll be doing we're sort of scaling back on like all the various versions

and such, but I'm definitely doing opening and closing stuff for Canada versus the world season two, aka the almost certain lemon coronation run. I was going to say that feels like that's what it's setting up for. So yeah. There was a tweet about

it was really mean. It was funny, but it was really mean. where it was, like, looking at Jimbo and Lemons, uh, third season promo looks, you can tell who wound up going on the main show and winning and who had to crawl back to Brooklyn Heights. And I was just like, wow, that's mean, but you know what? Yeah. Kind of am here for it. Like, that's, like, Canada's not enough.

I have the anti-Gimbo establishment and even like, yeah. I'm the anti-Lemmon establishment. So there we go. I'm sort of generally pro Canada season one, but not as, much as I am Canada's seasons two and four. But yeah, after ISIS Couture did not win season one, they're not going to let that. That was so, I love Roger O'Hara, and I'm glad that Roger O'Hara won. But like, the absolute deflating balloon that was Isis Couture in that season was so

like depressing to watch. I still think it's a weird thing that she came back. She should have waited for an all winners, but also like the rules of all winners are so weird, like, do you have to be on a RuPaul show to be able to be on it? I don't know. Like, anyway. Right. The drag race Canada is counts and doesn't count at the same time,

like that kind of a thing. I mean, it's part of the reason why Priyanka lobbied herself to be on All Stars Ais with a Sik assassin was like, just get me in front of Rue. I promise you, I will be in. Right. There's no other way she'll notice you because she's not watching a show that she's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that was the funny thing when

Venus showed up at that book signing recently and Rue was like, you, you won, and do they give prize money here? Like, Rue has no like happening on those international versions. Which is why it's always sort of delightful on something like UK versus the world. But like Rue meets these queens from other world

like Marina Summers, Gimbo, Janie. I totally, I agree with. And it's just like, oh my God, you're great. I love you. And then Brit wins anyway. Yeah. All right. All right.

We are going to, you know what? One of these days, Kevin, we are going to start a drag race podcast. And we're going to take on the world. Because Lord knows that there are not enough of those, especially for people. Please bring me on for any a curiosity Davenport discussion. Done and done. No, we'll bring you on to talk about Trixie Motel and you can get sent away to...

I can just bark at David Silver. Chris is so feral for Trixie's husband. You can't even imagine. I do not know about this. The crush that Chris talks to me the most about. I go directly to Kevin with this crush, too, because I'm like, no one knows who this is a pop chef. Oh, Joe Flam. Yeah, because I'm allowed to have one heterosexual crush.

I've stopped responding to him when he's tweeting me about Joe Flam. So he's like, he's, he's taken it elsewhere. Excuse me, did he win Colorado? Yes, right? He comes back. He comes back from West Ham. He won over the dread, Adrian. You hated her.

Talk about the degree to which Chris hates Tom Tickfer. You cannot stand, Adrian, from Top Chef, Colorado. And none of it was personal, not a single bit of it was personal. She kept flopping and they just kept her. Once again, a longer discussion for another day. But Top Chef's modern stint of like, we only judge based on the plate of food that's in front of us and literally nothing else. I'm like, well, good luck finding a satisfying winner.

You had to give Stephanie Isard like three passes in order to get. And she's, like, one of the best winners of all time. But they've always done that. Went home, like, fourth after winning, like, twice in this current season. What was her name? Loved her. Oh, um, I don't remember her name. I can look at about that.

They do that all the time, though. And it's like, I don't think it's even that recent because, like, that's how Lisa on Stephanie Isard season made it to the final three, but she was always like the second worst plate of food. That, but that was more, I think of that more work. This is a hilarious subject to get derailed on, but, oh, as we're trying to leave. you, by the way, if you are listening to this and have no interest in this, like, feel free to just jump to the next podcast.

We're not going back to Bernie. Bernie discussion is over. So, yeah, we're doing outros and like, this is just what you get. The after show, yeah. Rosica is the one who won. Rosica, oh my God. It was like Rosica is obviously going to win. She wins like two challenges and then she has one bad day and they're like, well,

bye. Rosica does sound like what happens when, like, Rue has the flu and Ross Matthews has to take over as the, like, head judge of Drag Race for a week. and burn down world of wonder if that ever has to happen. But yes, Lisa Fernandez, I think was more about the early Top Chef thing of like, let's keep villains in. I don't think it was about. Okay.

Okay. That's fair. That's fair. The Isar probably genuinely should have gone home twice that season. And they clearly gave her passes because. There is something to be written. Speaking of there's something to be written about Top Chef's approach being that and being the absolute opposite of drag races approach, which is.

this is who's going to win, and the whole season is about getting to that, that eventuality. Although I will say they kind of threw that out the door this season, like, yeah. Oh, Roxy's not going to win? Oh, I'm sorry, no, I mean on, um, top shop. Oh, on top shop, sorry. No, no, I'm talking season 16 of drag race. Like, oh, I see. That edit was for a superior win, and it's crazy.

Yes. No, you could tell they did, there was, that season got kind of lost in the weeds at one point because they didn't seem to be sure where, things were headed. Which is hilarious because they had already filmed the finale. It was an early finale film, so they knew what that final lip sync looked like. And they still like... Nymphia disappears in the middle of that season, which is sort of an old school way of editing reality, they used to do that more often on shows where all of a sudden it's just like, oh, remember Nicole on Top Model Season 5, who was like a non-factor until like

the last four episodes or something like that, beyond getting into a fight with three, I want to say, or something like that. We really should do a reality TV podcast. I mean, we're kind of just doing it now. Honestly, yes. If you like this, people with money and want to throw money at us to do a reality TV podcast. Bring me on to discuss Akiria, Tabitha coffee. My new Lord and Savior, Tabitha Coffee.

I'm so glad to be back in 2007 in this particular way. Tabitha should be on the traders. Tim Gunn should be on the traders. Come on people. Absolutely. The tab of the coffee thing came up recently because somebody was like, I think it might have been Matthew Rodriguez, actually, was like Bravo used to be a space where you could be a fifth slash sixth

placer on a hairstyling variant of Project Runway. And you could become a megastar. And now it's, now it's all group shows. It's all Housewives. It's Summer House. It's Vayner Brul. It's all this stuff.

And the only competition show they have left because I think Project Runway is basically dead at this point is top chef and you know where all their talent is going food network food network 100% um no you're totally right and the fact that like even housewives shows used to have so many spin-offs and now they're they don't like five candy had so many people really i think she had one about a ski trip like yes it was candy was literally getting paid money to do anything god bless by the way god bless that woman um yeah all right I probably do have to go although I was genuinely I hope you're Sinophile listeners have enjoyed this devolting into a reality

Kevin and I don't live in the same city anymore so this is what happens when we get on a Zoom together is like it really just becomes we have to get better honest to God of like you and me doing a Zoom call maybe once every couple of weeks and just like downloading because I do miss like I miss you so much and I genuinely feel like you know we we need to have these conversations about nothing but the dumbest television we're watching. I think my Zoom fatigue has finally worn off. There was a period, like, right after the pandemic ended, where I, like, people were like, what if we played Jackbox?

I'm like, what are you fucking talking about? I'm never setting foot on Zoom ever again. There are people we want to have back as guests on this show, and I won't mention who, except to say that we love these people, but who are like, with all due respect, I will not do another Zoom. And it's just like, I'm like, I get it. Like, I don't get it. I've had to do it a little bit more for work. Because, you know, since it, since people have it now, like, if there's a meeting where you don't have to walk across campus for it, people will do it. Sure. Oh, yeah, totally. And I think that that's helped is sort of like, it feel, it's now associated with something other than like the existential dread of the novel coronavirus. Yeah. That was, that was the thing. I was going to mention it and it got swallowed by the part where my, my thing froze up when we're talking about. Denzel never having been nominated for BAFTA. And it's like, remember when early pandemic, we would do, um, pointless. We would do like, we would do game days or whatever and we would do pointless.

And every single one was like, you would watch a pointless episode and you would know which ones are going to be. We could game that system because like the British public don't know who American, black American celebrities are. They just absolutely not one. Like the answer could be Beyonce and like four points are coming up. on that. Exactly. Exactly. Raise in. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I do also have to go, but this has been so much fun. Thank you guys for having me. All right. Thank you.

All right. That is officially our episode. If you want more, this had Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr at this head oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Twitter. It had underscore Oscar buzz on Instagram at this had Oscar buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Consult with your doctor about these side effect symptoms. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? letterbox and socials at Joe Reed Read spelled R-E-I-D go to Vulture for Cinematrix and the Gold Rush newsletter

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