This Had Oscar Buzz - 307 – Brad’s Status

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

Underdiscussed in the Mike White oeuvre is 2017’s Brad’s Status, the story of a father reflecting on his own formative college years while taking his son on a college visit. With Ben Stiller center stage, the film examines privilege and maleness with White’s exacting but humane eye for detail, resulting one of the most emotionally affecting … Continue reading "307 – Brad’s Status"

Joe Reed, I've been hearing some news. I've been hearing that people are all a buzz. There's a lot going on. A lot of buzz. There's a lot of whispers in the air. It turns out about you, yourself, and someone else. Exactly. You might have a new podcast on the horizon.

I do have a new podcast. Thank you for bringing it up. I hope that the This Had Oscar Buzz listeners can come and join me at my new podcast venture. It is called DeMe Myself and I, and I am going to be talking about the filmography of one de me more in chronological order, film by film, with a lineup of incredible guests, which sounds like a good time to me. I don't know about you. I know it's a good time because I'm one of those incredible guests already. Heck yeah. For the low cost of $5 a month on Patreon, you will receive, you, the listener, will receive three full-length episodes a month.

talking about movies like St. Almost Fire and About Last Night and Ghost, as we move through Demi's early career, we're going to go through the whole darn thing. It's going to be great. Currently, featuring guests like Natalie Walker, Tara Ariano, Sarah DeBunting, and one, Mr. Chris V. File. So, it's going to be a great, great time. If you like the discussions that we get into here on this had Oscar buzz, I have no trouble at all saying you're going to be going to be a great, so true. to enjoy the heck out of de me myself and i just head on over to patreon.com slash demipod that's patreon.com slash d e m i p o d and i and chris will see you there and by see you there i mean hear you there you'll hear us there exactly something like that on the patreon see you there

Oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hatch and French. I'm from Canada water. My son is a very talented musician. Also composes his own music, so... Wonderful. I'm pretty sure Harvard is going to be in the running.

Oh, you think Harvard's got a chance. Suddenly my thought's darkened. Troy could easily end up struggling like me. This is Harvard. Even geniuses get rejected. We need to do everything we can. I'm about to go up my interview. Do you really need to be jumping all over me right now?

You're nuts. Do I sound jaded? I started out as idealistic as any of your friends over there. You're 50 years old and you still think that the world was made for you. I'm 47. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that can actually tell a lot just by looking at a. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my friend who knows the Dean of Admissions at Harvard. File. Hello, Chris. I think I wouldn't have gone to state school if that was the truth. What was the most high status school you applied to? I don't want to say it. What was the most high status school you, like, visited? Did you do, like, college visits?

Did you do that kind of thing? Yes, and, like, this movie is, like, very triggering because I hated that whole experience. Oh, no. you know how I am with meeting new people. It's very stressful. It's, I, I, I, I, I, sure, you know, especially when I was a teenager. Good Lord. Um, I visited Yale and was not super impressed with New Haven as a, as a town. Um, so that was a little bit of a deflating thing. That was the only, no, it was not the only Ivy because I went to Ithaca and we saw Ithaca and Cornell. Um, so, um, so that was a little bit of a deflating thing. Um, um, And those were the only two ivies that we went and looked at. But I didn't apply to either. I did apply to Boston College, but they don't talk about Boston College in this. Essentially, it does feel like there is some sort of like particularly middle-class striver tradition of like going to Boston and seeing the college is there, right?

because there are so many of them there. And I saw Holy Cross, which is in Worcester, which is not in Boston. I saw Boston College. And I really liked Boston College. Boston College is my sort of sliding doors. Boston College is my, what if I had, you know, what life would I have lived had I gone to this other school that I applied to? Although my real one is if I had.

had known enough about myself early enough that if I had known that like staying within the like friend group that I had at the end of high school wasn't going to be wasn't going to like be a priority for me soon then I would have just applied to like some Sarah Lawrence Vassar you know Hudson Valley kind of a school and go away. way and find myself. I mean, I guess my sliding doors then in this scenario would be if I had tried to go to film school instead of theater school. I mean, I was very, very averse to going to the big campus that was already in my city.

It was very averse to even the notion of that and, like, probably was the great financial decision because it would have been more expensive. That's the one saving grace of the decisions that I made is that I emerged from college without very much debt. Not none. I'm still paying off my student loans, but it has definitely been a lot different than people I know. Oh, yeah.

Truly, I still have enough that it is a hindrance in my life, while also probably having less than most people I know in terms of... Well, just be it. our age we are we have a lot less college death than people five even years younger than us because oh but like even my peers that i went to college with because i also like worked full time throughout like listen i don't know how to really sit still i think this is maybe one of the more traumatic things of my college experience is that i was always like okay go go go it was truly the Gaga bus club, another club

plane. How far away from your hometown was your college? Oh, like two hour. It wasn't crazy, but because I was working multiple jobs and rehearsing multiple shows and having a full course load, I didn't go home. What was your college job? Oh, I did retail and such. None of this is interesting. I'm interested in this kind of thing. I don't know. If you don't want to talk about it, it's fine, but, um, uh, I, I, I, I like to imagine you at, like, um, urban, not urban

outfitters. What's the, um, oh, not, there was not one in town. No, what's the, no, what's the, no, I'm trying to think of, like, the store at the mall that had the, like, the nice sweaters, um, Aussie, no, Aussie T wasn't that. I don't know, I can't, I can't think of it now. You are, you are putting me on far too high a pedestal, sir. All this to say, like, You know, there is something about, I think, like Mike White is so smart to make this movie about what it is and to set it at a college visit because there is something about the college experience or that period of your lifetime, if you've been someone who's gone to college, that it does feel like the sliding doors moment. Like, it feels like a pivot point for your life in a way, both good and bad. Yes. That can, you know, always spurs this idea of, well, what would my life have been like if circumstances were different?

And I also think, you know, because Brad's friends or his college friends, the friends he had in college are so specific. You know, they don't ever warn you. If we have college-bound listeners, allow me to be the Babadook that tells you it is the last time that you are given a set of people to make friends with and that it is very difficult after that. But those relationships can be very formative, can be a source of reflection and, you know, like, yeah. the mindset of okay assessing where am I at as an adult in my life yes the instant points of comparison are very hard to avoid and it is such a trap to get yourself into that I think this movie it's about that but it's also about bigger things too in a way that I think is pretty brilliant on Mike White's part.

It's one of the things that I thought of, and I thought, this is one of those movies, this is the third time I've seen this movie, that it's a deep thinker for me. I end up thinking about a lot of different things when I watch this movie, and I really love that about it, is, which sounds just like such a dumb, dumb phrase. This movie makes me think, and I love that about it. But one of the things was that we tend to in this country sort of compartmentalize we have rich people and poor people and then the middle class. And ultimately what this movie reminds me of is like there are so many subgroups inside what we think of as the middle class, right? And maybe that's me speaking from a position of like,

having grown up in a strata of the middle class that I don't see myself fully reflected in someone like Brad in this movie, right? Where like there is middle class that is so close to being wealthy that you can taste it. You know what I mean? There is middle class that feels like you are sort of, you know, within that milieu. There's middle class where your kids go to school with kids. who have money, you know what I mean? And then there's middle class that's just sort of like,

you're not quite living paycheck to paycheck, but you're not also like, you know, there's no college fund for the kids. There's no, you know, vacation is maybe once every few years, rather than every summer we go to Disneyland, you know, kind of a thing. And again, these are the things that I think of when, like, all of these things are rooted in the kind of peer envy that Mike White is talking about in this movie, right? Is that, like, I had the friends who went to Disney World every year, and I was jealous of them.

I had, you know, classmates who had parents who were, you know, maybe dentists and doctors and lawyers, not everybody, you know what I mean? And within that what we consider middle class, there are stratifications that I think are decently determinative of, you know, how you approach life. I don't see the kind of class striving and peer envy that I see in Brad in like my parents. but I also you know they're not that far away from it either they're definitely like you know they're not they're not just out of reach of this wealthy life that I think Brad is I think part of Brad's psychosis in this movie is that he's you know he's with he sees this life that he wants all the time um and my dad worked in you know manufacturing do you know what I mean and so it wasn't quite that, and he wasn't quite, you know, executive, you know, class.

But he also wasn't like working manual labor either. So it's this like, it's this sort of like, you know, middle thing. And again, when I, even as I talk about this, I'm like, I am experiencing, you know, and analyzing my own life in this very sort of hyper, somewhat solipsistic way that Brad does in this movie, which is, is on some level. unavoidable, right? We can only experience our lives through our own experience of it. I don't know. I don't know. I think there's degrees to it too,

which is like quintessentially Mike White. Yes. I also think, you know, this movie is really smart in terms of the like daydreaming fantasy or like doom scrolling

within his own brain. The versions that, you know, Brad goes into in terms of envy, in terms of, you know, you mentioned, like, his solipsistic, like, self-reflection of tangibles. There's tangibles. There's things like this friend has a private jet. This friend has a book that's like a bestseller. Right. And then there's the intangibles, which is like the table at the restaurant where they shove Brad into the shitty little thing next to the kitchen door but then when they know

that his friend who worked in the White House has the reservation they move him to the table that's been left clear for and like that all happens right in front of his face

but I think where like some of the you know holistic while also being while also having moments where it does pass judgment on Brad is that

a lot of this is totally understandable. You know, this is something, this is, you know, it's not bad behavior, but bad personal internal practice, this like spinning of the tires that Brad does. That is a lot of an ask for an audience to sit with, but the movie also comes at that with the understanding of everybody does this in some kind of way. So, like, it's looking at Brad through that lens in a way that's both critical and understanding of him. This movie does perform the same kind of magic trick on me as the first time I saw it, which is how I knew that it was like, it's the real deal, is that for the first third to half of this movie,

this is a movie about a middle-aged, you know, white. liberal middle age on we of, you know, what has become of my life and, you know. Why don't I have a private jet? Well, but also just like, what am I going to do about my kid going to college? Do I still love my wife? Would I rather, you know, what is what is it about this, you know, new biol young co-ed that is so appealing to me and all these sort of things that we find and kind of roll our eyes at in these movies about like middle-aged white men, having midlife crises. And you, you know, very much have the thought of watching this and just be like, why do I give a shit about this guy? And then at the mid-ish point of the movie, the movie

becomes them a critique of that kind of a movie. And a humane critique, a critique that doesn't, you know, that doesn't have its knives out for this character. But it definitely becomes a movie that kind of dismantles that mindset to a very necessary degree. And it's a really smart movie that, and we're going to get into the context of Mike White's career, especially at this point in his career, that I think is part of a really rich, you know, series of texts on this idea of... self-obsessed, status-obsessed, you know, white liberal hand-wringing, you know? And it's really smart and it's really insightful.

And I can see... This is a movie I wish people would reassess because it feels like people were like, let it go, thought it was fine. Or, you know, maybe the people who were critical of the movie just fine. sitting in Brad's brain so insufferable? I think a lot of people made up their minds about this movie through that in that first half of the movie. And I think it's crucial to sort of stay actively engaged with this movie

throughout the whole thing. And I do, I feel that way too. I feel there are movies that I like that I, there are movies that I like more than I like Brad's status that I am far less evangelist. about than I am about this one. Like, I really do tend to be like, no, you got to check this movie out. I know it just seems like, you know, Ben Stiller, you know, whines about his life and whatever, but like, but that's, that's the whole point of it.

It's all about the lens that he's viewed through because I do think that what White Lotus is doing is like, this is the origination of that. And White Lotus is Mike White blowing it up in this big. way that maybe is obviously a larger canvas, but I think is about essentially the same human behavior. I definitely want to get into, once we get onto the other side of the plot description, I want to get into the White Lotus of it all, even enlightened to a degree, Beatrice's a dinner. There's a lot of stuff that's going on in Mike White's career in this general period. that I think is working towards something really elevated. And I appreciate that.

Glad you mentioned Beatriz a dinner, former episode that we've done. They do pair very well together, though. Mike White directs this movie. Yep, same year, though, 2017. Before we get into all of that, though, Chris, do you want to take a second and tell our listeners who may not be signed up for our Patreon? why they should do that.

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We love to obsess about on this show, such as recapping award shows like MTV Movie Awards and Indie Spirit Awards. We've done Hollywood Reporter roundtable discussions. We've had our own, like, year-end awards. We called the superlatives. Last month, we did a whole episode of games. You know, we love our trivia. We love our games. We did a whole giant episode of it.

And this month, we have not planned what we're doing yet because we're doing these well enough in advance. But come check it out at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Indeed. We guarantee a good time. All right, so we are talking about the 2017 film Brad Status. No film title brings out the Buffalo in my voice, quite like Brad's status. Directed and written by Mike White, we're definitely going to get into it, starring Ben Stiller, Austin Abrams, Jenna Fisher, Michael Sheen, Luke Wilson, Jermaine Clement, Mike White, Shazi Raja, and, it premiered on September 9th, 2017 at the Toronto International Film Festival.

I don't think either one of us saw it at that tip. No, because its release was like during the festival. It released, in limited release. Yep, September 15th, 2017. So that's, those tend to be the movies that get deprioritized at a festival like that. It's like, well, I'll be seeing it very soon, especially because it was Amazon. So you knew you'd be able to, um, see it even sooner than that.

And I think I saw it as soon as I got home from the TIF too, so, you know. I think I remember seeing it in a theater in New York, though. I didn't, I didn't wait to see it on Prime, which I was very happy about that. Right, right. Same here, but I was back home. This is also the same year as Meyerowitz for Ben Stiller. And Ben Stiller has the opening film at Tiff this year, Nutcrackers, from David Gordon Green. David Gordon Green. One of Chris's nemesies.

In a franchise format, yes. For what the man has done with multiple. I feel like there was something recently where I mentioned David Gordon Green outside of a franchise context and you were like, fuck that guy. So I'm going to maybe object a little bit. You know, I will, I will, maybe, you know, and this may, you know, have some side eye towards me, but I think this movie I am at least optimistic towards because it's like the first real Ben Stiller performance since the 2017 movies. Yeah. Unless I'm forgetting something. He's acted a little bit since then, but like it's in these like bit roles or cameos, but like I think this one might be.

But he's been behind the scenes a lot more. He's been doing television. He did escape from Danamora and then severance. So he's been, you know, working, but not necessarily in front of the camera. Yeah. And I think this paired with Meyerowitz, both of which I think are his best performances. You know, he's not, you know, I understand when people are like, Ben Stiller kind of went out of fashion as an actor. But I think when he's cast really specifically, he can be exactly what the movie kind of needs. Like both movies, ultimately the emotional arc hinges on him crying.

And we don't really think of Ben Stiller as a crier. But I think they are ultimate, both movies and both performances are ultimately pretty moving when he does. not to put it in, you know, trite terms or anything. Yes. But it's a moment that both movies earn, and I think both performances have to earn. But he's perfectly cast here,

because, like, for someone that we kind of are designed to roll our eyes out for half of the movie and then ultimately come around to while still, you know, seeing a character in a complex way, you know. Like, he's not, you know, when he's told you have enough, that is absolutely correct. But also, in surprising ways we'll talk about, there's times where it's like, well, maybe Brad is the better version of this than what, you know, other people could be. Well, and I think part, and I think some of that is true while also at the same time being somewhat a seductive notion. You know what I mean?

Some, because Ben Stiller is really great casting for this because he tends to play this sort of, not always, obviously like Zoolander and whatever, he's playing this very sort of, you know, extreme character. But like in movies like The Night at the Museum movies and Walter Middy, which we'll definitely get into, and a lot of, you know, that he's playing kind of an every man, right? That tends to be more often than not the kind of role. that Ben Stiller plays. And so in Brad's status, you are kind of led to graft a sense of normalcy and, you know, onto Ben Stiller. And so when he gets called out for being part of, you know, this sort of white male hegemony, then you do, and then when he sort of is like, yeah, but I'm like one of the good ones, you do want to agree with him. And I think the movie wants to sort of lure you into agreeing with him while also being like, yeah, but like she has a point. You know what I mean? Like points were made. Points are made in this movie on all sides, which I really like. And yet it doesn't seem like John Stewart style both sides, you know, stuff.

Right. It's just kind of a more complex look at this type of behavior that we all do. And puts Brad. in a lot of different contexts, you know. It puts him in the context that kind of puts him in his place, but it also puts him in the context of, okay, listen, this is something we all do. I think that dinner. A worse version of, sorry, go ahead. I think, well, I mean, I guess jumping ahead

before even the plot description. Yeah. But the dinner with Michael Sheen really serves in a way that doesn't feel contrived. It's like, okay, so all along Brad is thinking of, well, look at all of these great. things that everybody has in a way that makes him be kind of an asshole. Like for the Luke Wilson

character, he's like, how bad could his life be? He has a private jet and he has all of this access and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, you could be that asshole, or you could be the asshole like Michael Sheen, who, when all of these people aren't in the room, you're

dogging them. You know, you're talking shit about them. Yes. And it's it's the flip side of the same coin, you know, that everybody kind of does. And I think that moment serves to ask you, okay, well, which is worse? Could Brad be, you know, an even worst version of himself in this way? Yeah. I think it's a movie that's smart about that kind of stuff.

And I'll get into it more. But I'm not going to allow you to put off this plot description any longer. than you already have, so... Not the scariest task. No, but, you know, and yet. All right, let me find my stopwatch. All right, Chris, I've given the boilerplate for this movie. Now it is all on your shoulders.

Chris's file your 60 seconds to describe the plot of Brad's status starts now. All right, we're following Brad. He's taking his son to Boston to visit various colleges. Brad is effectively owns a nonprofit that helps other non-profits, like become bigger nonprofits, basically. Very confusing business. But anyway, he's taking his son around to various different colleges. He went to Tufts and couldn't go to Harvard, but his son's trying to go to Harvard is like getting an interview with Harvard, got the day wrong. So now they like can't have a meeting with Harvard. He has to call a call to his friend Craig who works in the White House.

and Craig, and he went to college. Craig is, like, very famous, basically. Craig externally puts in the call. Troy gets to meet this teacher that he wants to meet at Harvard and gets an interview with Harvard anyway. They meet a... 10 seconds. Wow.

They meet a young woman who's in the music department, and they, like, get... They have conversation with her, and he... Like, the teacher that Troy loves, she's like actually he's a douche and then Brad meets back up with her at night and he kind of spills all of his feelings on her and she's like actually your life is totally fine and you need to realize that anyway then Brad takes a call from his friend who has a private jet and we keep learning that he has a private jet and anyway his daughter is getting spinal surgery emergency

later that night he has a dinner with Craig and Craig talks shit about basically all of They're friends that Brad has been idolizing all along and is like, oh, yeah, he's the private jet guy. He's probably going to prison later. And Brad's like, actually, you're a bad person and I'm leaving this dinner. And he goes to the concert that his son is at and he cries together. And then it leaves with Brad still unable to sleep, even though he's found some resolution in enjoying his life. But it leaves on a dark note, basically. Chris, I'm going to take you into a time machine with me, and we're going to travel back in time a few minutes.

It's been a while since I've done one of these. I hate doing. When you seem to make a flippant, sort of scoffing comment about how easy it would be to sum up the plot of Brad's status before I tasked you with it. Would you like to know how long over you went? A full 60 seconds. I don't get. Let's move along. 64, 64 seconds and 64.5. Listen, I was feeling myself doing poorly and it just like, I was the Brad of like, oh, I'm not good at this. So I'm just going to be self-sabotaging and not be able to save spiral and salvage nothing of what this is. It's a simple plot, but it's a simple plot that requires a lot of context for these relationships and these like fantasy sequences that Brad is constantly having.

and like you go through basically a cycle with Brad it's no surprise and I think it's ultimately smart that this movie ends on kind of a not quite a downer note but like Brad in in the downward spiral instead of back up you know after he's had this moment of realization because you know throughout the movie it's like Brad daydreaming about how much his life could be better in the context of all of his college friends and how great their lives must be. But then he'll loop back around to being like, no, this is great. And I do love my son and I love my wife. And then, you know, he takes full journeys back and his head. Yeah. But because it'll be like, wouldn't it be great if we had been, you know, wealthy and we're able to give all love this to our son and give all the good schools, and then he would become, you know, an incredible success, and then he would buy an island, and I could shove it in my friend's faces. And then, like, immediately after- All of his fantasies are of, like, him running on a beach,

whether it's with two young college girls, whether it's with his son, with his wife, whatever. It's always, there's a beach involved in the- But then immediately he'll be like, but then immediately after, he'll be like, although perhaps if we grew up wealthy, my son would be a jerk and I wouldn't like him. Or if my son is so successful, maybe he'll be, he'll lord his success over me and maybe I will resent it. And he's sort of, it's a lot of these like contingency plans. And like one of the funnier things I think about this movie is that like Ben Stiller is having whole conversations with himself in his head. And then when he like emerges out of that to like react to his son about something, he just like says something that, like, says something that

like, sends his son careening off into, like, one particular direction. And ultimately, you're just like, he's like, you sound crazy right now. Like, why are you doing this to me? And it's because Stiller is just sort of like emerges from these conversations with a completely different set of anxieties and worries where, like, at one point, he's like, or you could just like not go to college at all if you just want to be a musician. Why would, you know, it's a lot of money. And I, and all of these things he says to his son.

son end up being these sort of like dad lectures of like, you know, you're pretty soon you're going to figure out that like, you know, that there are harsh realities around here and you've been sheltered and you're in a bubble and not everybody's got to be cool to and and his son's like, you're making me feel insane. Why are you doing? Well, because all of his fatherly advice and all of him like trying to protect and care for his son is really just projection of his own bullshit. onto his son, which, like, is so smartly observed in terms of parent-children relationships.

Like, it's so much so that I'm like, Mike White maybe has done this better than anybody else in the past decade or so of that exact dynamic. And Mike White isn't even apparent, at least to my knowledge. Yeah, I don't believe so. That, like, I think that's so well done. But also in between these fantasy sequences, not only is it that, that's the dynamic with his son, but also in terms of like beefing himself up in his own mind, he's constantly looking for affirmation or he's constantly trying to impress other people. Like when he talks about his son, it's like, oh, he's a prodigy, he's like, you know, and it's just like he's, we've already learned. that Troy, by nature of the, like, acceptance or the, like, rates of people applying to these orchestras that he would effectively be a member of, that's going to help him get into any of these colleges, just because he won't be, he's not applying for competitive positions, basically, even in these Ivy League schools. So he's like, Brad's trying to impress people

or trying to, you know, get, you know, some affirmation that it's like, oh, yes, your life is good because of X, Y, and Z status symbol. But then when he actually does impress someone like Ananya, when he's talking about his nonprofit, and she's like, actually, that's really cool. You have your own business, basically. And that sounds really interesting.

when he does actually impress someone, he doesn't know what to do with it. He brushes it aside, talks about it like it's nothing. Yeah. One of the things, by the way, you'd said in the plot description that I did want to make a small correction is the professor that she says is a jerk

isn't the music professor that Troy likes. It's Craig. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Because she took his class. Yeah. And she's like, he's an asshole. He's sexes. He's a misogynist.

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. What else does she, like, kind of put him in his place on besides the after? They have that conversation while Troy's still there. And then they go, Brad and Troy go back to their hotel. And Brad can't sleep. And Brad, meanwhile, is having these, like, daydream fantasies about being the, like, the idol. you know, older man that these two young college girls would want to run away with. Like his

one friend who ran away to an island. Right. Germain Clement, who lives on an island in a thruple essentially. And so he goes back to the bar with, you know, not necessarily with like designs to sleep with this girl, but like certainly like there's, there are not entirely honorable, you know, reasons for him going back to the bar. So he goes back to the bar. So he goes back to the bar, and they end up in this conversation, and he makes the, like, completely unforced error when she's like, what advice would you give me? And he essentially is, like, sell out as quickly as possible, make all the money, become Bill Gates, and then, like, donate money to charity. You can do good things with the money, yeah. And she completely gets so sort of aghast by this

and completely, you can read it on her face, and he can, too, that, like, she's lost all all respect for him. And then he spends, like, an hour or so, like, they close down the bar with him trying to justify this by, like, essentially, like, telling his whole life story. And he believes that if she knew, and this is, you know, sort of the central dysfunction of Brad. Brad believes that if she knew his entire life story, that she would ultimately sympathize with him, and she would ultimately feel bad for him, that he, you know, that he has this awful tale where all of his friends became rich and he's stuck working in nonprofit where everybody sort of, you know, looks down on him and nobody wants to talk to him and he feels very

ineffective. And ultimately, after hearing all of this, she looks at him and she's like, you don't have it that bad. You know what I mean? Like all things told. And she does it, one of the things that I think is interesting in this. Her first, like, perception that she says is that he's very lucky. You're very lucky. You feel like you're 50 years old and you still feel like this world was made for you. And essentially what she doesn't say explicitly, but the implication of that is that all your dissatisfaction is the dissatisfaction of somebody who is realizing that like the world has failed to give you every single. thing that you want, you know what I mean? And meanwhile, and she sort of, you know, she talks about, you know, her, I can't remember where she says she grew up. But she says when she goes back home, she says there are people who live on, you know, $2 a day and can barely eat and are, you know, thankful for, you know, even, you know, just getting, you know, food for the day or whatever. And it's a, you know,

And it's obviously a perspective thing. And it's, you know, she mentions, she uses the phrase first class problems and white male privilege and all this sort of stuff, which immediately, like, causes him to, you know, it's this, you know, these trigger words that make your dad's generation, your parents' generation, you know, freak out or whatever. But it's also this, like, blunt thing that it feels like she's about to go into college student editorializing of him. But really, where she ends up is this very plain spoken way. is able to dismantle all of this way that he has, you know, got his brain into a knot about his self-perceptions and the way that people perceive him. Yes. That she can just say something as simple as you have enough and it registers with him. One of the things that I think I like best about this movie is there is very much a worse version of this movie that takes the perspective that.

that everybody is, is equally awful about this kind of thing, that Brad is, you know, self-centered and up his own ass, but also the college kids are insufferable and, like, overly confident in their own experience of the world. And that you sort of express an egalitarian viewpoint by saying that, like, everybody kind of sucks. And you see that in a lot of movies, especially a lot of comedies. And sometimes that's effective. More often than not, I find it really lazy that kind of just like, well, everybody's bad. There's the overly like moralistic and, you know, Pat version of this movie where instead of Brad doesn't really know how to react to Craig being kind of an asshole and having nothing good to say about anybody. And obviously we can infer Brad's thinking, well, what do you say

about me when I'm not there, that there is some confirmation of the way Brad thinks he's perceived. It might actually be true, that Brad doesn't have some big monologue where he tells him off and therefore telegraphs to the audience that he is some changed person. Yes. You know, it's really that Brad doesn't know what to do with it. He just has the impulse, I need to go be with my son. and that's what he that's that is the you know emotional climax of the movie not something that like tells us what to think tells us how to feel or isn't the reality of who we are as people you know it leaves us on a note of thinking well Brad is just going to be you know chewing his own fingernails about this issue for the rest of his life but you also do get the sense that like this was a net positive experience for him, this weekend in Boston, these conversations

that he's had, these thoughts that he's had about his son, sort of seeing his son in several new lights. I think all of these things will be a net positive for him. I think just in general to, you know, a lot of the things that you were just saying is this is a movie that respects its characters enough to treat them as individuals rather than sort of parts of a polemic where Ananya gets to have actual values. And sort of after that conversation, Brad has this inner monologue thing where he imagines Ananya and her friend on the private jet

with, is it Luke Wilson, I think, maybe? Luke Wilson's the private jet character. Right. And he's like, you know, one taste of the good life, and they'll throw away their values quite quick. And I think he, even in his inner monologue, is like, that's too harsh, you know. And ultimately, the movie doesn't agree with that. The movie gives Ananya the respect to,

enough respect to say that, like, these are her, these are good points that she's making. And these are her sincerely held beliefs. And yes, she's young. And yes, there's a lot of life that she's going to still experience that may well, you know, change these opinions. But these are not, she's not being cynical or stupid or, you know, not worth listening to when she's young. There's, it dovetails with one of Brad's sort of reveries earlier in the movie where he talks about, you know, I'm glad, I may be glad that we didn't raise our son spoiled because he could be, you know, obnoxious and precocious. And then he imagines Luke Wilson's kids being like, God, Dad, you're so cis. Stop being so cisgender. And that sort of played, it's played for a laugh in that, you know, it's funny to imagine these like 11-year-old girls, you know. All of Brad's daydreams are ridiculous and funny. But it also made me think of, because obviously the White Lotus comes not too long after this, only a few years after this.

And it obviously made me think of that scene, that hilarious, hilarious scene in the first season of the White Lotus, where it's Sydney, Sweeney and her friend being like, well, it comes across this whole. But the other thing, I'm just like, Dad, maybe Grandpa was a power bottom. Maybe does that make you feel better to, you know, and that whole, and that whole conversation is, is, is, every, Everybody's being ridiculous in that. But it also kind of, it respects everybody weirdly on all sides of that is that like Connie Britton is awful, but also you're like, well, I get where she's like so frustrated with her kids that like every single thing that she says and does. Her kids are like, mom, that's problematic. You can't say that. And, and that Steve Zahn is going through this like existential crisis of finding out this thing about. his dad that his dad had this sort of like secret life that he never knew about and then the kids are like dad you can't say that that's that's problematic that's homophobic and and um so it like meanwhile friend hedgeinger is like social jobe like cannot have a good relationship with anyone whatsoever he's like god i just want to i just want to go get a good night's sleep and you've got me sleeping in the kitchen in my sleeping bag or whatever by the way i saw the trailer for

Gladiator 2 in the theater yesterday. Gladiator. Gladiator before Trap. I could not be more in on whatever weirdo shit Fred Heshinger is doing in that movie. I cannot fucking wait. I mean, that man is absolutely dead by the second act of that movie. But, you know. As certain as I am that, like, Denzel's character dies a noble death in, like, maybe the last 15 minutes of that movie.

like that's um i don't know who survives that movie maybe just connie nelson same as the first one connie nelson she'll get she'll get the with credit in gladi a three or um anyway what you're talking about though is the like brilliant mike white thing and i think it's weaponized even better maybe in this movie than it is throughout white lotus of no character ever gets to be less than a little bit right sometimes. Because the thing of Craig talking about, you know, Luke Wilson, their private jet friend, and Brad's like, no, I was so wrong.

Like, he's going through this. And I, like, made it seem like it's all about, like, his jet. And Craig's like, yeah, he does have a private jet. And Brad's like, no, but it's the company owns it. He's like, it's his company, like that, like. Well, also at the same time, you get the sense that, like, Craig is just like, he's a mean gossip, you know what I mean? That, like, Craig has bad qualities that are exacerbated by his wealth, but aren't necessarily because of his wealth.

He's just kind of- You mean to tell me that a mean gossip works in the White House? What are you talking about? But, like, he's a, he's a dick who doesn't really have any real loyalty to his friends, and he's a gossip about it. And, like, his money and status exacerbates that and makes that kind of more awful. But it's not, like, inherent to that. And, like, Brad, Brad has bad qualities that are exacerbated by his, you know, economic and social status, but are not necessarily because of that. Luke Wilson seems like a decent guy who also has a ton of money and who, you know.

He's maybe committing, like, all of the heinous crime that we hate in terms of finance. Maybe, but I also don't know how entirely 100% I believe Michael Sheen also in that scene. Like he's maybe, you know, going off of, you know, partial information and whatnot. I want to believe him in that sense because two things. I think it is the Mike White thing of, you know, multiple things can be true. They can be going through a harrowing, awful personal trauma while also being somebody who does like insider trading. But I also think it's this thing of Craig being a character who is the opposite. of Brad. Brad is, you know, his perception of his friends has probably limited his ability to

foster those relationships and be the good friend. Like, Brad doesn't realize that that is an inhibitor to having a good relationship with those friends still and, like, being their friend rather than this guy they talk to every once in a while and don't invite to their life events. Meanwhile, Craig is probably the good friend who talks shit about you behind your back all the time, but will always do you the favor? Like, Craig doesn't really blink to call in the favor to Harvard. He doesn't really care.

And, you know, he does kind of call out Brad for being like, you're just kind of being an asshole when I've done this for you. But while he's also being an asshole. While he's also being an asshole. You know, I think I get kind of the impression that Craig would do the favor for his friends, but also is just a dirt bag. I was going to say, and I think, you know, there's, that's where I think that socioeconomic stuff comes in because, like, him doing these favors, he can sort of toss these things off because, like, who cares? You know what I mean? He's got, he's got social capital to spare, so why not, you know?

And he, like, talks shit about doing those favors or, like... Yes. But you'll know, I mean, like, none of the favors that he's talking shit about are ones from his direct contacts, like... Sure. You know, someone like Brad. Sure. Anyway, though, this is, this all is, you know, part and parcel of the fact that, like, this is a far more layered movie than I think it got credit for at the time. I think people really did kind of read a book by its cover with this.

And which is what made it so much more gratifying that when the White Lotus comes around and people actually, you know, invest in that show and really, you know, sit with that show that he does get praise for it being incredibly layered and, you know, this sort of sharp social satire, but also like one that does not feel like it's a screed or does not feel like it's, you know, it's finger waggy that it feels. that the layers of it allow you to have all this fun with these, you know, clueless and mean and whatever characters, but also you don't feel like you're being bludgeoned about it. Everything feels sort of light and funny and breezy, and I think that was a huge part of why people liked that show so much, especially the first season. There's a lot of first season White Lotus that I see in Brad status.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if nothing else than just how he looks at his characters. But I think also putting this in context of Beatrice's A Dinner, which, you know, it's also the thing of, like, Mike White can get away with saying the obvious things sometimes because of how textured everything else is leading up to the obvious statement of, you know, try healing something that's harder. or you have enough, you know, these kind of, like, obvious statements, you know. We talked about Mike White's career a little bit in the Beatrizate Dinner episode, but I want to sort of, as I sort of look through his filmography, you do see where, like, this social status theme does recur a lot. Chuck and Buck is about a pair of.

of, you know, old, you know, childhood friends who have drifted and whose lives now are two very different things, one of whom is a movie star and the other is a, right? He's a movie star in that movie, right? That's the whole... He's an actor. It's been a minute since I've seen Chuck and Buck. I love Chuck and Buck, though. I feel like he's, like, really successful, though, right? Like, that's... Anyway, no, he's a, he's a, he's works in the music industry. What anyway, Chuck is a success and Buck is a frustrated, you know, loner, essentially.

And so there's, there's, you know, that element to it. Orange County is about a guy, a kid who wants to get into Stanford. The good girl is sort of about somebody who's, you know, working in a checkout line and doesn't feel like, Like, she's, you know, she's sort of looked down upon for not living up to, you know, not having a, like, an, you know, an adult job, which is why she ends up with this relationship with this teenager. School of Rock, sort of, you're the dog, doesn't quite really do that. But then, obviously, you look at, he moves into Enlightened, which is a movie about sort of class warfare between. the workers and the corporate class that is an incredibly underrated, I think somehow people still underrate that movie in the arc of Mike White's career, especially that now that the

White Lotus has become his like big TV success, I think Enlightened is the crucial stepping stone that gets you from the aughts section of Mike White's career to the late 20 teens and onward section of his career. And Enlightened is about a lot of different things, but one of those things is essentially that this, and it's also a movie very much in, you know, TV show, where her inner monologue and her outer life

are at odds with each other, right? That's maybe my favorite thing about Enlightened is that, like, in her inner monologue, she finds these, you know, she's at peace, and she finds these mantras, and she has these beautiful sort of, you know, thoughts about her relationship that has ended or her, you know, her mother or ever. And then, like... In the real world, that plays out as delusion.

Mania and delusion and just, like, breaking things and saying the wrong things and being too extra. And it's one of, like, that's maybe my favorite thing about that show. It's just like, because, like, I can relate to that. know what I mean? Like anybody who has had, you know, I think in Brad's status, it appeals to the part of me where it's like, oh, I've had full arguments with, you know, both myself and like other people that have taken place fully in my head. And, you know what I mean? And enlightened, it's the thing of just like, man, I've got it all figured out. I've got, I've got, I, you know, the other day I thought about this and I like, I had it figured out. And they're like, great. Explain to me what you figured out. And you're like, I can't. You know what I mean? Like, I can't express it.

I can't get it out of my life. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I think ultimately the Mike White thing, the thing that's fueling all of the engines. I can't speak for the emoji movie or a lot of these animated ones. But it's this idea of, you know, it's looking at the human behavior around. self-perception and outward perception of projecting onto other people, you are this, they are that, you know, this categorization we do in our minds of other people as they relate to us and how that therefore makes where we exist in some type of social ecosystem. There's a line that Austin Abrams says.

does in this movie. That is, um, it's a line that's also used in a, in a somewhat infamous Buffy the Vampire Slier episode. Were you a Buffy person? I was. It was. So remember earshot the movie, the episode that they had to pull, uh, right after Columbine, because, uh, it featured somebody, um, threatening to shoot students from a bell tower. So that episode, Buffy, um, comes across some sort of demonic whatever that allows her to hear, everybody's thoughts. And it becomes unbearable to her because she can't function. She's hearing everything that everybody says, or that everybody thinks about everything all the time. And finally, she gets this confrontation with, oh, what's his name, who played Jonathan, who

ended up writing all those Jay Roach movies. Fuck. Danny Strong. She's, you know, in the Bell Tower with Danny Strong and she's ultimately trying to talk them down and she's like all of these people who you think, you know, hate you and look down on you and whatever, they're not thinking about you because all they're doing is thinking about themselves. And it's, you know, and it's, and she, and I don't, she doesn't mean it in a selfish way. She's just like, all of these people all day are trying to figure out their own shit and are dealing with their own lives. And And Austin Abrams' character in this movie has a similar thing where he's like, where he's like, remember when you were like embarrassing me in front of that tour group yesterday? And I was so worried that like I was going to come to the school and I was going to be remembered as the like the guy who got bitched up by his dad in front of the tour group. And he's like, and then I realized that like they weren't, they didn't notice. You know, they're not going to remember that because they are all completely caught up in their own thing. And the only, you know, the. only person who cares about what, you know, you were saying to me is me. You know what I mean?

So ultimately, like, I'm the only person whose opinion, you know, should matter to you and that kind of thing. And so it's a sentiment that is, you know, repeated in other things, but it's definitely one that feels very applicable to this sense of, like, everyone's, everyone's trying to to figure their own shit out. And most people are, you know, trying to handle their own lives the best that they can. And they are beset by fears and prejudices and, you know, whatever. But like, there's, there's an ultimate humanity to that notion that I really like across basically all of Mike White's stuff. It's basically like a sober human. Because I think the movie makes space for the kind of warm and cozy feeling, but also the cold reality that, like, that works.

It does register with Brad, but it has a shelf life of about five minutes before he's back on to internal dream scrolling. Very, very realistic. I like that you brought up earlier that this is the same year as the Marowitz Stories, which is another movie that we've already discussed on this podcast. One of my favorites. And another movie, I think both of Stiller's movies this year were movies where I was like, no, go back and watch that again. It's better than you're saying.

Both of these movies got sort of like a hand wave of like. And Stiller's better in both of them than you remember. That was okay. That movie was okay. Yeah. Like there's not a ton of people who hate. those two movies, but there's a lot of just sort of like, yeah, it's all right. And I'm like, no, go back and watch The Myrowitz Stories. Stiller, I think Sandler gives the best performance in that

movie, and like Elizabeth Marvel is like, you know, right up there with him. But I think Stiller rounds out the trio. I think the three of them together are giving phenomenal. You know how much of a sucker I am for sibling cinema. And that, the sibling dynamics between those characters is really interesting. The fact that he's younger and has a different mother. than them, so there are these, like, schisms between them, but they all tend to, like, there's love there between them, like, they all, you know, they want the best for each other, but there are little riffs in there that just, like, that are, that exist, and they can't be, you know, avoided entirely. And it's, Stiller's career is interesting. I tried to, I tried to look up

Ben Stiller on the numbers, and then it kept saying to me, like, your connection won't be secure if you go to the numbers. And I'm like, I don't know what's happening. Someone's trying to hack the numbers and therefore hack all of us. I don't want it. I don't need it. Somebody fix box office mojo and let us do that. And then we'll figure it. But anyway, without the list of Ben Stiller's sort of like biggest box office successes, you look and you see that like the grand majority of like the way that America appreciates Ben Stiller is like the night at the museum movies. And there's something about Mary. And I imagine Starsky and Hutch made money. Dodgeball. Um, the Meet the parents movies, of course. Um, and that's sort of, that's the Ben Stiller that's, you know,

America likes. And then Ben Stiller is like, cool. I also want to be an artist. And so he'll do things like he'll, obviously, he's directed several movies. He directed Reality Bites. He directed, did he direct Zoolander? I think he did. The cable guy, obviously, which is like a hugely, I think, influential text in the Ben Stiller career, which is he essentially hops onto the Jim Carrey train right after this like hugely successful, you know, year.

of 1994. And then he makes the cable guy. And it's dark enough. It's the cable guy. It's the Jim Carrey movie that pisses people off. Because it's dark, because people don't like it. And I think Ben Stiller, I think there's a streak of that sensibility into him that he doesn't want to make these sort of just like, just, you know, happy yappy comedies. And then he kind of retreats from that a little bit. And like, Lord knows I love Zoolander. Lord knows I, you know, laughed my butt off at Tropic Thunder. Although I've never seen it a second time. I I don't think we need traffic clunder anymore. We can leave that in 2009 or whenever it was. 2008. But I think, you know, the fact that he's doing, you know, these shows on television, Escape from Danamora and Severance, but he also as an actor, every once in a while will emerge with something where it's like, no, I want to be like, I want to be a serious actor. And you can sort of see it as maybe like awards hunt.

but, like, I don't know if that's necessarily even what Stiller wants. Maybe he wants. Maybe he wants an Oscar. But I think he wants respect more than anything. And, like, you know, he, I think of, like, when he made that Neil the Butte movie, your friends and neighbors in 1998, which he's, like, he's part of the ensemble. But he's definitely, like. Permanent Midnight. Did you ever see permanent midnight? I never did. I have not. I have not. But that was a big one where he was sort of, you know, that felt like, you know, Ben Stiller is trying to make something. thing sort of serious and dark and and then even some of the comedies like Greenberg like some of the Noah Baumbach movies Greenberg and I think Myerwit's stories falls into there too where they're comedies but they are you know Bill Murray Rushmore

style comedies you know what I mean like you know these are lost in translation even you know what I mean where it's like Stiller's trying to go for that it's a comedy but it's about how you know, misanthropic I am or how, you know, messed up I am, by family, damaged, exactly. And then you get something, we've talked about a lot of these, because Secret Life of Walter Middy is also a movie that we've done. We're not quite at six-timers with Stiller, but we're getting there. And I think Secret Life of Walter Middy is not a movie that succeeds, but

it is definitely the most like Oscar-bait, like straight-up Oscar-bait movie that he's ever done. where I feel like there was definitely visions of Oscar success in there. And I think that's, you know, it's too bad, I guess, because, like, he, I think the desire for him to make something artistic and, you know, enduring is genuine. And it just doesn't latch on. I imagine he's still somebody I imagine will eventually get an Oscar nomination for something, but I don't know what that's going to be, you know. Have an eyebrow raised towards nutcrackers.

I'm just, you know, we can only be so optimistic. You know what that's supposed to be about? He's like, like, I think he has a sibling that dies, so he takes over a bunch of rambunctious nephews, which could take that movie in many different directions, especially since it's David Gordon Green. They just punch him in the nuts, the whole movie? That's because... Sure.

It could just be a body. comedy comedy, but it could also be in this Bombachian vein that you were just describing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm interested. We'll see how it goes. It's the TIF opener. We will be on our way to TIF as this episode

drops, or shortly after it drops. I can hear you now. Oh, wait, now I see you drinking a LaCroix, but I hear your voice. That's like a weird ventriloquist thing. Oh, no. Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes, they both reach for La Croy, LeCroix, LeCroix, yeah, okay, we're back. Okay, um...

And the man, ho, pampalmos. Stop! you're so stupid this is gonna this will be in the outtakes um if nothing else these connection issues are giving us outtakes shit it's true um should we talk about the anapurna of it all this was the first year that anapurna decided they were going to be a distributor and um all three of their movies partnered with amazon with amazon right so it was this we can also say not a good year for amazon this is the year of the new york film festival where all of their gala's were Amazon movies that no one liked. We talk about this so often because, like, so many of their movies that year were, like, Oscar bait flops. And so we've talked about it a lot. But the Anna Perna of it all, I think, is interesting because it's this. It's Catherine Bigelow's Detroit.

And it's Professor Marston and the Wonder Women, which everybody who's seen that movie is, like, good movie. too bad nobody else saw it you know what i mean like it's just this movie that it's kind of it feels like kind of a miracle that it exists because you know we talk about well we don't make those type of movies anymore like have we ever really made this type of movie that's just like right about a relationship between three people and like contextualizing them in the time period that this relationship exists like it doesn't you know hey they didn't just fall out of the coconut tree. Um, yes,

I agree. Sorry. I mean, it's about, you know, the creation of Superman in a way, but like it's... Well,

there's a lot less of that than you, then, you know, the promotional material would have led you to believe. Yes. Wonder Woman, not Superman, of course.

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman, right, obviously. Um, and like, and that it was, you know,

Angela Robinson, who was this, you know, uh, great director who hadn't really gotten a ton of opportunities to make, you know, movies. And I think there was a lot of, you know, hopefulness that we could, there's, again, that's a movie that a lot of people evangelized for, Professor Marston and the Wonder Woman. If you, if you've seen it, you want to tell people about it.

That one I did see. It's a great Rebecca Hall performance in terms of the, like, quintessential great Rebecca Hall performances that like, well, awards bodies aren't going to recognize it because that's not like the type of greatness that they recognize, but she's wonderful in it. Totally. Absolutely. Austin Abrams, I should mention, a little bit after this, was in that TV show that I always talk about loving, Dash and Lily, that our friend Patrick Vail was in. And our other friend Michael Cyril Creighton was also in. So, like, that's, that was the show that premiered while I was hiding from COVID. in Buffalo, and every single thing about that show is like New York at Christmas time. And I was just like, ugh. I should watch Dash similarly. Maybe I'll watch it as Christmas.

It's very cute, I will say. It should have gotten more seasons. But this is sort of this younger actor who tended to be in the general, what you call it, the, what's the word I'm looking for? No, just sort of like area. That's not the word I'm looking for. Viscity? Sure, vicinity of these sort of younger actors who got more of a push, right? Where he's in Kings of Summer with Nick Robinson, and he's in Paper Towns with Netwolf, and he's in... Not Paper Towns. Not Paper Towns.

Telling you. Paper Towns. And I've always kind of liked him. I've always thought he was pretty good. He was in, he's in upcoming. He's in Wolves, the George Clooney, Brad Pitt movie, Wolfs. He's like third build in that movie. So we'll see what he's doing. His character's name is Kid. So we'll see what goes on there.

I think even more curiously, he is in Zach Crager's follow-up to Barbarian. Yes. That would be called Weapons. Weapons. I think will be very interesting to see how that movie does. Great cast in that one, too. It's Josh Brolin, Julia Garner, Alden Aaron Reich, Benedict Wong, Austin Abrams, Amy Madigan, and June Diane Raphael. Like, we won. I don't know. I love that cast. I'm very into that cast. So, yeah, I'm glad that Austin Abrams, because it did feel like he was, you know, part of a group of younger actors. And, like, he wasn't the breakout. So, like, sometimes those actors sort of just get left behind. And I guess he was on, he had a role on Euphoria. He's, euphoria is this.

great, like, you could tell me anybody is like, oh, no, they were on euphoria a lot, and I have no choice but to believe you. He also had like a recurring role on The Walking Dead. I totally forgot about that. But I'm glad that he's

still kicking. It's a good performance in this movie. I think Troy is a very well-written teenager. Of course, among the many things that Mike White is good at, he writes, you know, young people very accurate. Yes. Yes, very much so. What did you make of the way that this movie depicts and involves Jenna Fisher as his wife? She is the wife on the phone. She is very much wife on phone.

The thing is, like, she's so, like, you maybe like this character more than you like any of the other characters, which does have its purpose, too. of, you know, I think being siloed from her is kind of necessary for us to be so enmeshed in Brad's, you know, pathology. Yes. Though, I mean, I wouldn't judge anybody's complaints about, you know, how it might be sidelining her. I just think there is some function in that and that she's also just like fully normal person who seems very well adjusted. and his, you know. She doesn't share any of his class anxieties.

She seems very happy to be working in nonprofit. But also working very hard and good at her job and a good mom. I think you're exactly right in that like for the story that's being told, that is how you sort of utilize that character. And I think to the degree that you can have, you know, that character pop and sort of of, you know, establish themselves. I think Jenna Fisher does a good job. It does sort of somewhat necessarily turn this movie into a very sort of male movie, which

I think is not... I do think that's kind of by design, though. So, like, I understand why people might bristle at it, but I do think in less of an obvious way of a lot of movies that are about masculinity or mailness in, you know, explicitly so. In recent years, I think that this movie does it in a more sly way and a less obvious way. But I do think that this is definitely like, if you could be like, here's five movies about maleness or white maleness in the modern age. I would put Brett status in there. Yes. Yes. What did you think of, this is totally tangent. What did you think of the score,

the Mark Mothers Boss? it's maybe one of my qualms with this movie it's very forward it's a very score forward it kind of tells you what to feel which is not you know maybe it's creating a balance in this movie or you know allowing the more tense moments to be more tense but it is a little treakily in a way that i don't think a mike white project needs i will say i tend to really vibe with the mother's boss scores in general. He's done a lot of Wes Anderson. He's

done, I think he did Mitchell's versus the machines somewhat recently. He's, you know, he shows up every once in a while in a movie and just like, oh, I really like that score, who was it, and it ends up being Mother's Bar. But I don't disagree with you in this context, so.

But I do think, you know, I think Mike White is creating it on its own, but I do think there's some intentionality in creating warmth in this movie. It's like you kind of have to get the full balance of, you know, the kind of warm and cozy garrant child feelings that this movie has. Yes. You know, satisfaction, finding satisfaction in your life as you have it, you know.

You kind of need a little bit of that sentimentality, but, yeah. I hope the score. I wish I could speak more to the Boston College politics of it all. Again, the sliding doors version of me that went to BC. But I understand, I'm a person who lives in the world. I understand the whole, you know, Tufts as the, you know, the lesser sibling in Boston to Harvard. You know, I went to college in Boston. Well, not in Boston, but nearby.

No, not Tufts. Shut up. It's 14 degrees up there. How is that supposed to make us feel better? Herbert. You haven't told to shut up. But I think the movie sort of has its fun with that. So that's nice.

It's also nice that they, like, clearly filmed it in around. Oh, actually, they filmed a lot of it in Montreal. That's interesting. But it has that sort of like college town feel to it, right? that thing where like all of a sudden Boston can become, and I guess you're in Cambridge and there's not a surface in that bar that is not ancient wood like. Right, right. And that all like appeals to me. And I guess like Montreal would make sense. Let me see the whole filming locations. Yeah, it did. It filmed in Boston. It filmed in Montreal. And Hawaii.

Well, yes. Yes. Briefly in Hawaii. So what were those shooting days like where, you know, You just have Ben Stiller getting into a half a dozen to a dozen costumes. And it's like, okay, this is the co-star you're going to be running with now. Yeah. Can we get Luke Wilson to set? We need to film Luke Wilson running on this beach, too. Right, right, yeah. Well, nice work if you can get it.

This was a Gotham Award nominee for Best Screenplay. It ends up losing to Get Out, but it's in good company. It's Get Out. Call Me By Your Name Lady Bird, which were all very big Oscar successes. The Big Sick, which ends up being an Oscar nominee for screenplay. And then Koganada's Columbus, which is about your city. The Big Sick being Amazon's success this year of all of their multiple awards players. And probably, I mean, I feel like I've said this on Mike before.

If Searchlight was handling that movie. or if Focus was handling that movie that probably would have gotten into Best Picture gotten some type of acting nomination probably for Holly Onter but like Amazon's not good at this guys they're not good at promoting films for awards

and they're really not good at promoting TV shows for awards which is why I was so surprised that Mr. Mrs. Smith did well this year with Emmys. Well, this was an unusual breakout year for Amazon. Amazon for Emmys has done well with comedies, right? With like marvelous Mrs. Maisel and whatnot. They did get a nomination for the boys that one year, but like it was somewhat isolated. This year, they got a ton of nominations for Mr. and Mrs. Smith and a good number of nominations for Fallout as well. And like, both of those ended up on the best drama series. A drama series in general was somewhat of a, you know, mishmash because all the big series either had ended or didn't air new episodes this year because of the strike. So this is somewhat of an in-between year, but good for Amazon for that. The Oscars... They have a lot of history of dropping the ball on things like the Underground Railroad, which should be absolute Emmy slam dunks. Well, even the Lord of the Rings series that they're doing right now, which is going to premiere a new season soon.

I feel like if there were expectations that it was going to be the next game of Thrones, it's not that. Although, I will say, the underwhelmed reaction to season two of House of the Dragon does leave the door open for Rings of Power season to be like the gallant to HBO's Goofus this season. So we'll see. Screenplay at the Oscars that year, original screenplay, largely a really good category, I think. Get Out wins, Lady Bird nominated, Big Sick nominated, Shape of Water, and then three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri. I certainly would have nominated Brad status ahead of at least a couple of these. I like the shape of water a lot, but as a screenplay movie, I think Brad status, I would nominate that ahead of that one and certainly three billboards, even though I don't hate three billboards like a lot of people do. But you add something like Brad's status to get out and the big sick and ladybird. Like that all of a sudden becomes like this like really, really great category, I think. I wonder what happens to a movie like Brad's status.

And I feel like we probably said the same thing for Beatrice at dinner. What happens to this movie if it's released after White Lotus? You know, like what's the next Mike White movie? Yeah. How is that going to be anticipated, received, promoted? Because I do think we'll be looking at. at a different beast, though we have until, I'm assuming, next year for the next White Lotus. Yeah, this is what, in Thailand?

They're either filming or finished filming. It's in Thailand, the new season? I forget. They announced casting on it a while ago. Like, it was a lot, remember finding out that Natasha Rothwell was coming back? That happened a long, long time ago. So, yeah. But the strike.

Yes. HBO, I will say, for as down of a year as HBO had, especially with the Emmys, this year, they are kind of poised to rebound in a big way because they're going to get the Last of Us back. They're going to get White Lotus back. Somehow, someone announced that Euphoria is eventually going to come back. I think we will never see a third season for that show. I was surprised that they even said that they even committed to it, though, because I thought it was just going to, like, quietly. Well, they're going to be doing another Dune movie, so Zendaya's going to be a little busy. Yeah. Yes. Although when they start filming that new Dune movie,

who knows, but... Apparently very soon, because it's dated for like 2026. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, we'll see, but... Yeah, we'll see on Euphoria, too. Big ol' asterisk there, I would say. Anything else you want to say about Brad Stadis?

You know, a good movie. Very good movie. Give it a shot, people. Not the best Mike White movie, but, you know, certainly better than various emoji movies and animated movies. I think he only did the first emoji movie, right? And I think it was, like, it was ghost written. Like, I don't even know if his actual...

No, his... He got a name credit. Yeah, it was just... It's emoji movie, Dispicable Me 4. He's got a screenplay credit. Last year's migration, the movie about the Ducks. The one and only Ivan, apparently, is a Mike Wain's... There's only one, Ivan.

There's only one, Alan, and there is only one Ivan. Why don't you explain to the people all about... To the listeners, to the populace. To the children, what the IMDB game is. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances,

or non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we'll get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Hazzah, free-for-all of hints. Okay, would you like, Chris, to give your, your, uh, sorry, I lost the ability to speak. Chris, would you like to give or guess first? You know what, I am, I am circling the drain today. My brain is not where I need it to be.

I have Sunday, I have Sunday brain. Yeah. Sunday Scaries, Sunday Brain, which is worse. Sunday Brain happens early, and that's why all I do on Sundays is like lounged around. And then Sunday Scaries happens late. And then it's like, oh, shit, I've been lounging around. I've wasted my day. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to give first. All right. So went into the Mike White filmography. Brad Stadis is his second directorial. feature after Year of the Dog, which starred the one and only Molly Shannon. Molly Shannon. No television.

Okay. Superstar. Superstar is correct. What was that movie called that she won the Independent Spirit Award for other people? Other people. Good movie, good performance. I could not imagine watching that movie. Oh, my God.

Molly, Molly, Molly, Molly, Molly. Okay, so, I don't think it's going to be something quite so, like, part of the ensemble, like, never been kissed. But it could be, you know, I've never seen this movie, but I know that she's in it. And I'm just going to take a wild guess that Talladega Nights might be on there. Talladega Nights is incorrect.

You do have to see that movie for Amy Adams. giving maybe the greatest screen monologue of all time. Fine, fine. You know the allergy that I have to Sasha Barron Cohen? Yes, and I understand that, but you should see that movie for Amy Adams, if for no other reason. Okay. Though I do think that Talladega Nights was maybe the end of humor among, like, mainstream society. Because everybody who, remember how, like, Austin Powers grew to be.

entirely not funny because everybody's weird uncle would quote it all the time. Sure. The way everyone quoted Talladega Nights for like maybe a solid decade after that. Well, and I think Anchorman sort of falls into that too. I think the Talladega Nights quoting is even worse. Like my red hot smoking wife of it all. See, I maybe don't notice it because I haven't seen it. So there are maybe things that get quoted that like go over my head and I don't know.

Maybe this is also me living in middle America. Maybe it is. Um, all right, wait. Talladega Nights is incorrect, though. All right, so one strike. I've got two to go on Molly Shannon. Um, okay. Is Year of the Dog one of them?

Year of the Dog is not one of them. So your years are 1999 and 2001. Okay. So, sweet spot, the SNL sweet spot. Um, I don't think she's in Zoolander. I don't think that's the 2001. Is she in like the ladies' man? I think she is in the ladies' man, but the ladies' man is incorrect.

Okay. 99. I feel like the 99 is the one I should get more readily, right? Yes, you should. For multiple reasons. Oh, God. Okay, multiple reasons. You've maybe given yourself a reason to get the 99

movie. SNL? No. Austin Powers? No. Is she in in Austin Powers? I don't think so. I've maybe given myself a reason.

It's a title that has come up on this episode. No, Anchorman's much later. It's a title that's maybe very very, recently come up on this episode. Clock off. You know I have no short-term memory. The T, the T. Did I just mention it recently as like a thing

as a Can neither confirm nor deny. God damn it. Literally what was I just talking about? Talladega Nights. Not television. Sasha Barron Cohen. No, not Sasha Baron Cohen.

1999. That's pre-Ali-G. I know. What was happening in comedy in 1999? We've definitely mentioned this movie a bunch on a recent episode, too. People are yelling at me, aren't they? You might have said, I'll just say it. You might have said, well, it's probably not this movie.

Oh. Oh, is it never been kissed? Never been kissed. I'm pretty sure she's billed on the poster for Never Been Kicked. She's just like the best friend. That's interesting. She's like not buried in the ensemble of Never Been KISSed. Yeah, you're right. You're right. There's a lot of people have never been kissed, though. The 2001 movie is a movie where she is buried in the ensemble because it is a massive ensemble. Okay. Big Ensemble, O-1. It's not Zoolander, though, right? It is not Zoolander.

Okay. But it's still a comedy, right? Yes. Okay. It's a comedy that I enjoy. Rat race? No, not rat race. But to the degree that some people really, really enjoy it, I'm like, okay.

You'll go have your thing. Am I one of those people? I don't know, actually. I think you're probably with me that you're like, you enjoy it. but the extreme enjoyment others have for it is a little lost on you. All right. Also a movie known just as a title.

Is it like one of the big comedy stars of the era? Is it like a sandler or a stiller or a feral? It doesn't really fall on one person's shoulders, but you're not going to see a sandler, you're not going to see a feral in this. Is it Apatow? No, I don't think He was too early for that

There's definitely comedy names in this Who would go on to be Much bigger than they were when they made Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh See, I love this movie No, I am one of those people It's Wet Hot American Summer Wet Hot American Summer

I think Wet Hot American Summer is funny and good But people who like thought it was the second coming of comedy I was like, okay Have your think No, I am one of those people. I think it's so influential. I think it's so incredibly good. Who do you have for me and my brain that needs a kickstart of some kind?

Okay. It also doesn't help that we are... I'll just check your battery, but it's my brain. Well, and it doesn't help that we're also experiencing these like intermittent delays on the Zoom. So it does make us feel crazy. Yeah, and how many episodes have we done in the past, you know, seven to ten days? days, maybe four or five? So I went down the Austin Abrams rabbit hole, as I was mentioning recently.

And a movie that made you grown when I mentioned it was the teen rom-com paper hearts. So Paper Hearts is a romance between Nat Wolfe. Paper Towns. Paper Towns. Paper Harts is another. Paper Hearts is the one that I like less. Paper Towns is a teen rom-com with Nat Wolf and Cara Delavine. But Nat Wolf has a, Austin Abrams plays one of Nat Wolf's two friends, and the other one of Nat Wolf's two friends.

And that movie is played by Justice Smith. And he has, I think, officially done enough movies now that we can do a robust known for on Justice Smith. So. It's going to be a good year if Justice Smith doesn't make my acting ballot for I saw the TV glow. I agree. How recent do we think, I don't know, that movie has a very engaged fandom that I think, and I imagine that's the only time.

Oh, sorry, one television, I should say, one TV show. I don't know what the hell that show is. Wait, what show is Justice Smith on? I think it's like a Netflix show, so I probably don't watch it. I'm not going to guess the TV show first. I'll say I saw the TV glow. Not I saw the TV glow. Once.

Yeah, it's too soon. Too soon. Is the TV show... Um, he's not on Bridgeton. Because that's just... I think it's something before then. Is it like... It's not sex education, is it?

It's not sex education, although that's not a bad guess. All right. So wait, so that's a, that's a non-guess. No, that was a guess. So I get my years. Okay. So now you get your years. All right. So your films are 2018, 2019, and 2023. Your TV show lasted from 2016 to 2017. Okay. I'm going to need a lot of hints. Okay. I don't know, young people. one of these was a big blockbuster sequel to a reboot oh uh uh wait just one of these is detective Pikachu yes detective Pikachu is your 2019 movie the sequel to a reboot but it was a big

blockbuster that's the 2023 movie right that's the 2018 movie okay um The 2023 movie is IP that had been, I believe, attempted several years ago and didn't really, like, click. And then this version, people really liked a lot, although somewhat, somewhat cultishly, but like, not like tiny cultishly. Like, there's, this is a movie that's going that, um, has a following. We'll be remembered, we'll be remembered as a bigger thing 10 years from now than it actually. was in terms of, like, audience size. Hmm. It's very charming.

It's very cute. Is it for children? It's for children of all ages. It's, it's... Movies for grown-ups who refuse to grow up. Maybe. It's, you know, it's action adventure, but it's like... It's not, it's sort of decidedly undark.

Interesting. Because I almost guessed, like, one of the... Jurassic Worlds. Did you now? That's interesting. Oh, is it Jurassic World, whatever the second one was? Is the 2018? Yes.

Do you want to guess what the subtext? Fallen Kingdom? Yes, Jurassic World. One of the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen in a theater. Poor Justice Smith. Poor Justice Smith. Yes. All right.

That's not your IP. That's not the one that was describing. The 2023 movie and the TV show. Yes, you do. Okay. The, the, the, 223 thing, is has an IP following that people will think was bigger than it was. Meanwhile, Jurassic Park Fallen Kingdom,

go look how much money that movie made and be aghast. 2023 movie has a big star at the top but like, not like one of the biggest stars, but people really like him. People root for him. Jason Mamoa. No? No.

That tone of voice tells me I'm in the right ballpark. Not really. I think maybe level of fame-wise. It has sort of an infamous silly cameo. The main bad guy is played by somebody who is going to be in a horror movie this year that is intriguing. Hugh Grant. Uh-huh. Oh, that's not a Paddington.

That's not a Paddington. It's action adventure. Wasn't the Charlie's Angels reboot was in 2022 and made like $0. Right, it's not that. Was he a villain in? It's not like a goosebumps movie. No. The supporting cast includes someone from the Fast and the Furious franchise,

someone from the It movies, someone from that Netflix show that you momentarily ruled out as not being... Bridgetten. Yes. Um, ooh. Okay, so the IP... But it is like family, family, Friendly action adventure, semi-reboot. Yes.

It's an IP. It's not like a Borgie. It's a real soft PG-13, I would say. Sure, sure. But it's not superheroes. No. What did? I was going to say, like, what did we have before we had superheroes?

But that's not entirely correct. It's not Westerns. The IP that it's based on isn't based on like a comic book. it's not like a goosebumps movie it's not based on a book it's based on it's not based on a video game a cartoon not based on a cartoon um what uh what's the like what what other things

a comic strip not a comic strip based on TikTok No it's what did kids do what did nerds do before computers cartoons

like Saturday morning cartoons No but like it was a group activity Magic the Gathering Before that Before Magic to Gather Yeah what was the precursor Not comic books.

Right. What was the precursor to Magic the Gathering? Magic the Gathering is a game that, like, takes after what? It's a card game. It's a role-playing game. Yeah, so what's the, like, what's the role-playing game? Dungeons and Dragons movie. See, there you go.

Did you not like it? I get that everybody did. Dungeons and Dragons Otter Among Thieves is very much the quintessential Chris didn't like it as much as everybody else did. Well, I mean, clearly everything went out of my brain because I don't remember either Justice Smith or Hugh Grant being in that movie. Justice Smith is very sweet and cute in that movie.

I like him a lot. The television show, though. Yeah, 2016 to 2017. It's somewhat infamous. You were right at the beginning when you said it was on Netflix show. It is a Netflix show. Is it 13,

reasons why? No. Um, not as popular. 13 reasons why weirdly lasted like four seasons. Um, Justice Smith isn't a stranger thing, sir. Is justice? No. No. Um, it was a major autore, like a major film director, decided to make a TV show and essentially spent a ton of money on it. And I deeply... For Netflix. Yes. And I deeply wanted it to be good. and it was ultimately not. Was it whatever Nicholas Winding Refen did? Not Nicholas Weining Reffin, although he also did. I want to say a Netflix show or a streaming show.

It's not maniac, is it? No. Justice Smith is the star. He's like the top-billed guy in this. Interesting. This Autour filmmaker had a Best Picture nominee, not last year, but the year before. Okay, so

2022 would have been Not de novo No, that's 2021. Right. So this is this is like the

Just, this is the King Richard year. No, that's 2021. Right. Damn it. So this is, after COVID, What one after Cota? Short-term Oscar memory is a...

No, this is... It's real thing. Like, the most recent years are harder to remember than years, 20 years ago. It swept almost all the acting awards. Big long title. Two directors. Oh, everything everywhere all at once.

Okay, so what was in the Everything Everywhere all at once? It wouldn't have been the Daniels doing a TV show. show best picture nominee so it's not Aronovsky what the hell else was there I gas that the whale is the second movie that you thought of for 2022 is all I'm going to see the other acting winner um there you go

what I mean like it's hard to remember the movies from that year because who did he beat uh he beat probably the person I wanted to win um wow literally who did he beat? Who won the Golden Globe?

People were like, oh, he's going to win the Oscar, and then it didn't happen. Colin Farrell, Mark McDonough. No, but also, Colin Farrell also did win a Golden Globe, but in comedy, yeah. You're right. I forgot about that. Wow, so who beat him for the Globe?

This is, like, very recent, and I should have the answer right there, but this is the pain of not knowing newer stuff as well as you know the old stuff Who were the director nominees It would have been Was this person nominated for director? No, although we all thought he was going to be

He's somebody who has been now snubbed twice For Best Director when we thought He would be nominated And he went and made A Netflix show Right away It's not like Adam McKay No, not America

Not American. Canadian? No. British. No. Mexican. No. Further south and

west. Pablo Lorraine? Nope. Further west. Great. A country I'll never visit. because the flight is far too long. Australia. There you go.

Who would have been snubbed twice as a... A Baz Luhrman? Oh, is this the get-down? The get-down. Not a real show. The get-down. That's right, because Netflix spent like an insane amount of money

and no one watched it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Had no idea Justice Smith was in that show. He is the main guy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right.

A valiantly five-hour. I would have watched that show. I did. I started to watch a lot. watch it. I, you know, I wanted to like it. Ultimately, it wasn't terrible, but it was just, like, not, not terribly compelling. Anyway, well done. All right. I'm having a rough one today. I need. I'm going to put a cold compress on your forehead and you're going to relax. Listeners, that is our episode. If you want more, this had Oscar Buzz. You can check out our Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz, our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and our Patreon at Patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you?

Twitter and Letterboxed at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on the socials, including Letterboxed, and I guess Twitter at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I also, and we can cut this out, although, because we're recording this ahead of time, but I don't anticipate we'll have to. I have a new podcast called To Me, Myself and I. that you can find on Patreon, and for the low, low cost of $5 a month, get three episodes every

month, where I and a special guest will cover the films of Demi Moore from beginning to current, one of which, one of those guests is right here with me right now, Chris Fisle. Hey! It's on the very first episodes, you can go back and you can watch us talk about the two incredibly real and existing movies that Demi Moore starred in at the very beginning. of her career. I will never get that 99 cents back. But we've got guests like in the early episodes, Chris Schleiker and Sarah Bunting and Tara Arellano and Natalie Walker. And there's a great roster of guests to come. So I am

super, super excited for the people to sign up and listen. And I think we are going to have a good time with Demi Moore for this year. Celebrate to me. What a great time to celebrate to me. We'll be in Toronto as this episode is arriving to you. We will be very stoked to see the substance. Everybody go out and see the substance this season. 100%. All right. We would also like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility.

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