This Had Oscar Buzz - 313 – The Menu

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Keeping things horror adjacent for your October viewing schedule, this week we are discussing 2022’s The Menu. Originally announced as a collaboration for director Alexander Payne with Emma Stone,��The Menu centers on a psycho chef and his high end clientele, who all take part in a super exclusive dining experience from Hell. The film ultimately lost that … Continue reading "313 – The Menu"

Chris, the Vulture Movies Fantasy League continues to roll on. We are well into Halloween season for the box office. And if you took a flyer on a scary movie for box office points, I hope it was Smile 2 because that's working out pretty well for you over its opening weekend. What was the Dollar Buy for Smile 2? Smile 2 Dollar Buy, excellent question. I'm going to very quickly look this. $8, $5?

If there was anything less, that was a great buy. How much could a smile cost, Michael, a dollar? Smile 2 was $5. So, yeah, $23 million at top the box office, so you'll get those bonus points. It will almost certainly be at the very least of $50 million movie, so you'll get those bonus points. And it opened pretty similar to what the first smile opened to. And that movie ended up clearing $105 million domestic. And this movie, I feel like, has gotten even better reviews.

I feel like most of what I'm seeing out there on Letterboxed is I liked this movie a lot better than I liked the first smile. So I'm encouraged. I'm now very much encouraged to go see this movie and be creeped out by big wide grins again. Other than that, the news at the box office is sort of in miniature. I think we live in time with 4.3 million. Anora is kind of the big winner, small scale-wise, even though you're not going to see any points for it yet. Anora, of course, the number one most drafted movie. So there's a lot of eyeballs on how this is going to be performing financially and on only how many screens?

Four screens, six screens, I believe. But still, the second largest theater average post-COVID after our beloved asteroid city. Yeah. It's good news. Week things coming. It's good news for Enora. Lots of enthusiasm for that movie. A few weeks ago, Saturday Night had one of the year's biggest theater averages and then completely greater winning. These are very, very small sample size numbers.

Saturday Night currently languishing at the bottom of the top 10 with 7.6 million cumulative. Joker continues to just absolutely free fall. It's dropped out of the top five this weekend. What's that? Wither Joker 2. Wither Joker 2. Exactly. Exactly. Listen, if you wanted to draft a movie where someone is creepily smiling, I really do hope it was smile too. You should have maybe gone with smile too. Yeah. Joe, we're also here to talk about some of our, we love spotlighting the team names. We love when you get inventive with a team name. So we're going to start talking a little bit about some of those. We're focusing right now on our beloved Garriators League because we are a hometown podcast. So I'm,

are, Chris, I selected a few team names from the Garyator's mini league, and I want to throw them out there for your approval. First of all, very basic, very true, Paul Meskel's thighs. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong with Paul Meskels Thuy. You know, we love populism. As we saw in a very recent photo shoot, I feel like just last week, Paul Meskles Thighs as popular today as they've ever been. So, very good. A straight play down the middle. As a Simpsons fan, I appreciate a Burns for all seasons, which is, of course, the name of the movie that Mr. Burns directed in the film festival episode of The Simpsons.

We have one that's the team name is just Box Office. How would you imagine they spelled Box? Hmm. Like a Bon Me, but Box? No. How about Bach from Wicked? Box Office. Great, great.

What's he doing in his time? little office. What is? He's got his cute little short pants, and he's just, you know, up to bach things. Memoirs of Ornacia. We always appreciate a drag race reference. Love a reference to Ornacia. I love this one, which is just, and it's a musical, because it's Paddy Lapone.

Did you ever see that clip of Paddy Lapone talking about it all along? Of course I've seen that. And it's a musical. And then finally, we'll choose some more as we go along this season. But finally, I really gravitated to middle-aged joy, which, you know, I love a reference to Shirley MacLean's Oscar acceptance speech when she talked about how having Jack Nicholson in bed was such middle-aged joy. I also feel like this is somehow a Inside Out 14 reference or something. Sure, of course, that we're going to finally get to Middle Age joy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That should be, yeah, Inside Out 14 should be called Inside Out Middle Age Joy. Yeah, 100%. Voice by Shirley MacLean. Get her in the booth now. 100%. As I am now in middle age myself, I hope to experience as much middle-aged joy as possible. I'm glad with Jack Nicholson, no less. Yeah, yes, exactly.

Remind us once more what your team name is, Chris, this year? My team name is Mike's Hard Truth's Lemonade. It's very good. It's very good. I am, of course, Fred Heshinger Hype Squad. As we approach gladiator season, I feel like more people will be getting on board with that. All right, once again, VultureMovie Fantasy League, Vulture.com slash movies-dash league. You can go there and see where your team exists on the leaderboard.

You can check out all the latest news about the prizes and the scoring, and you can sign up for the newsletter so that you can get updates from me every week. Get loud, get bragging. Talk shit amongst your friends over who is winning. Exactly. All right. Now back to your regularly scheduled Oscar Buzz. Mm-hmm. Oh, oh, wrong house.

No, the right house. We want to talk to Merlin Heck. Millen Heck and friends. I'm from Canada water I'm from Canada water Dick Pooh Welcome to Hawthorne Here we are family

We harvest, we ferment We gel. We gel. He's not just a chef. He's a storyteller. The game is trying to guess what the overarching theme of the entire meal is going to be. You won't know until the end. Who are you?

I am Margot. How do you care? I have to know if you're with us or with them. Hello and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is squishing our big, manly, sex. hands into that peach pie filling. Each week on this head Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my tortilla deliciosa. Chris File. Hello, Chris.

I have three things to say. Yes. First of all, I really need you to sound drop a Kate planchette. That's gross into what you just said for the Labor Day reference. It's great. Big manly sex hands into the peach pie filling? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? Come on. Come on. Come on.

It's fine. Who among us? Also now I'm thinking of peaches and cream from our, like, what were the orange group? Did you do a deep dive into 112? Yeah, I bet you did. I was like, what are all of the R&B groups that are numbers? Yep, yep, yep. Second of all, Tortilla Deliciosa.

Full, one-star, level. better box to upgrade for that Hong Chao line reading. We're going to talk about it because Hong Chao has about like four line readings in this movie that like bump this movie up probably. We got to talk about Hong Chao and like how most of the movie she's in don't deserve her. And then we will. I guess my point to be of that is if Hong Chao ever called me her tortilla deliciousa, I would melt into the floor. And then three.

Yes. Okay, so the tortilla deliciosa. I just think if you and I attended this restaurant, Hong Chao would just shoot us in the face. Because we would be asking for substitutions with water. Oh, are you kidding me? Absolutely. Are you joking? The whole, like, you can't make substitutions.

Like, listen, we're not Sally here. But, like, we also, like, we're not, we are leagues away from the tech bros at the tech bro table in this movie. However, the one area in which I'm similar to them is, even after being told that you get no bread, I would still kind of ask for bread. I don't think I would be like as persistent, as jackassy as they are, but I would make the second request of like, no, but for real, could we get some bread? throw some bread. No, I would be like, okay, so you sat us near the fire. Can we get some flour and water and spices? We're so close to it.

We can just do it ourselves. Is that the lesson we're supposed to learn here? Can we just make our own bread? Is that what it is? You want us to become a bakery? We'll do it. We'll feed all of, like, maybe that's the lesson. Like, we have to do things in service of others.

We are going to make the bread for the restaurant. This is also what we would do if we were in a menu situation is we would be looking for the metaphor so soon. And we'd be like, what's the, what do we got to do here? What, how do we have to atone? What, like, what are, what's the lesson you have to learn here? They would bring us our water and I'd be like, this is so fucking stupid. I would be like, this is, this is, they're bringing us water in some metaphorical vase. And I'm like, you know what this means, right?

And it's pretty stupid. We're going to get into actually, that actually does bring up a salient point that we'll get into into this. And, like, the degree to which we are sort of invited to take on Anya Taylor Joy's character's perspective of this whole thing in this movie, which I think is a little too easy and a little to, you know, sort of safely superior. But, like, we'll get into all of that. It is, we are safely ensconced into, I know you registered your objection to the term spooky season. And so we'll just say Halloween, Halloween milieu. We are releasing this episode. Hollow watching.

We are releasing this episode in the wilds of October while, you know, you should be in the middle of, I feel like I can safely say. Everybody should do a scary movie viewing project of some sort or another. It doesn't have to be a project. Just like, it's October. Watch some scary movies. I always talk about how I miss the days of, I mean, I miss the days of cable TV in so many ways, but I miss the days of cable TV during October when you could just like throw on kind of any cable channel on a weekend or even often, you know, during the week. And they would just be like showing whatever scary movies they had the rights to, you know what I mean?

And you could just sort of like flip around the dial. Or if it's before 8 p.m., you might see Casper or. Exactly. Or, you know, I'm not a hocus pocus person, but that's only because of my age. But, you know, sure, if you're a hocus pocus person, have at it. You know what I was a hocus pocus person until everyone out overdid hocus pocus. Like, I'm not going to, you're not wrong. If you're a Halloween town person, I'm trying to, what are the other like spooky? You know what I will say, as much as everybody talk about a movie that nobody admits they like anymore or they ever liked. everybody is a you know what movie I don't like is goonies nobody likes goonies and I know you're one of these people um but that was a movie that like you could watch I remember we watched that as like a kids scary movie because there are like scary things in it you know what I mean it's not a horror movie by any regard skeletons there's skeletons there's mysteries there's dead bodies in a freezer you know

they're going underground they're being ran Ramsey with a knife that's scary. So I'm the last remaining person who will, you know, look fondly on Goonies. I caught it on TV the other day. Guys, it's fine. I understand how everybody went overboard with, you know, that being the, like, the movie of their youth. Goonies is fine, everybody. It's got a Cindy Lopper song at the end of it.

How bad could it be? But anyway. I just got to kind of give it a rest on any movie that. is on a t-shirt at Target. Like, give it a rest on those movies. Like, I get it. I get it. But anyway, so the menu is a horror movie, I think, in its conception and then it's often in its execution.

So this is not the most, like, hardcore horror movie, but certainly of the Oscar-buzzed, you know, movies that we can talk about on here. This is definitely one of the more horror ones. his red dragon characterization but like on well butron you know like what if francis dollar hide got on some some okay men what if francis dollar hide got his shit together and went to therapy like well i was gonna say i don't know if shit together is exactly how i would describe this character but um it's definitely a um you know it's rife finds post-Valdemort, right, playing a villain. And I think nowadays he brings a lot, I mean, whatever, he got famous playing a Nazi. So it's not like he was ever, you know, this was always

kind of part of his persona. But I do feel like following up Schindler's list with the English patient where he's playing this sort of dashing romantic hero, you know, flawed as that man is, kind of changed the, you know, reputation of of him as an actor, has sort of introduced as many, you know, heroic characters as there are villainous characters for him. Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but I think we kind of landed on this quickly coming up with also, oh, well, we could talk about Ray Fines because of Conclave. But it's hard to pick. I think we were like, oh, this is available. Oh, it's October. Done.

Yeah. But my memory of Ray Fines, because I feel like we've tried to do Ray Fines before, is that there's a lot of movies that have Oscar nominations, and now it's a lot of movies that aren't really in this conversation. I guess we could do Coriolanus, but we could definitely do Coriolanus, but you're right. We can't do Grand Budapest, which got nominated for everything but here. And we can't do in Bruges because that got nominated, although he didn't.

We've done a bigger splash already. I'm trying to think of like the big, like, Ray Fines was so great in that. Why didn't he get nominated? We could end up, we can't do any of the bombs because they all get song nominations these days. So, yeah, the menu I think is an interesting movie to talk about. I think once we really get into it, this was my same. second viewing of it. I saw it for the first time at the Toronto Film Festival and pretty much liked it and kind of even like defended it. I wasn't always like this movie has always had like

I thought structural issues, but I watched it again last night. And I had a lot more sort of, I felt a lot more basically annoyed with this movie and with its tone and with its sort of smugness, which I will sort of lay out at length once we get into it. But it definitely, watching it within my sort of like October horror movie watch, there are, you know, there are definite avenues into this movie as a horror movie that I definitely want to get into as well. Because you can kind of tell that it's a horror movie made by people who don't work in horror, Like not to, you know, I think, I think there are talented people behind the camera here.

Mark Myelot will talk about his work on Succession. The two writers have been really good with their TV work, but like, none of it's been horror. And you can kind of tell in the way that this movie does not know how to proceed as a horror movie. It almost feels like... It has an identity crisis, for sure, because it's kind of trapped between horror, comedy, satire, vague whodunit-type ideas, even though it's not a murder. There's whodunit imagery.

Right, exactly. That's exactly the thing, is it sort of introduces these elements and does not know how to follow through with them. And ultimately, the movie, I think, becomes just this, like, sort of smirking idea of a thing. And by the end of the movie, you're like, so it didn't go anywhere. Like, it literally doesn't go anywhere. And even the one character... All the characterizations are very basic.

Like, the background of all of these characters is very skin-deep. And it's not particularly interesting. in the conclusion of this movie is what happens with Anya Taylor Joy's character and watching it a second time I'm like this feels very basic and smug in the way

that she sort of like gets out of this we'll get into again I don't want to like it's a very high concept first draft which is interesting because this is the script that kicked around for a while it was on the black list there was a whole other production team that would have been on it we'll get into that

Yeah. As somebody who has an idea in my head that I've been kicking around for a long time for a horror movie concept, it really feels almost like a lesson in like, you know, once I end up putting this thing to paper, I want to be very careful that it's not just I had an idea and I don't know how to like, you know. Make it interesting. Carry it through and sort of like that the movie. has to have some follow-through because I think ultimately you can see why this movie would sell in a room, right? You can see why this movie would impress people in a logline because it's an interesting concept, right? What if the greatest chef in the world decided to make his wealthy clientele his last, you know, his last meal and that he's, you know, and then you can sort of funnel all of your resentments towards

the wealthy you know foody class into into this movie and I get it I get why people would be like oh that's a really interesting idea

and then it's just like if this movie had been more of a horror movie or less of a horror movie I think it works better I think right now the way it exists is it's in this sort of like uncomfortable middle or I think if it had been

a better like if it was funnier if it was like nastier um oh I think it's plenty nasty but I know what you mean like like a vis more visceral maybe or something yeah or like just don't take just the jabs that we

expect you to take like you know it doesn't it doesn't cut any deeper than you expect it to especially in terms of like class satire. It feels pretty basic. We'll get into all of it. I do think there are things to recommend for it. I think there are a couple at least really good performances in it.

I think I will always love a movie that at least casts, you know, well. And I think this has, you know, some good casting decisions. You could see why this cast would want to be involved. and, like, this is a movie that made some money, so, like... And there are isolated moments of horror that I do think are effective. It's just a matter of, you know, what they add up to. But we'll get into all of that. Before we do, Chris, would you like to talk to our listeners

about why they should sign up for this head Oscar buzz, Turbulin' Brilliance? Turbulent Brilliance. Listen, we're not a restaurant giving you what you don't want. We're a restaurant giving you what you do want over on our Patreon. Say that. For $5 a month, we're going to give you two bonus episodes, the first of which is something people clamored for years for us to do before we launched. And that is our exceptions episodes.

These are movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric but managed to score a nomination or two. This month, what other film could we do with Stephanie Germanada back in our our theaters. What else could we do? It was time to take out the trash. We did House of Gucci. But if you go through our backlog, you're going to find a bunch of other great movies like, well, you're going to find a bunch of great episodes on movies like Vanilla Sky, Lesontville, Knives Out, Molly's Game, Lucky Bones. They're just not all good movies. Yeah, go back and listen to our Lovely Bones episode

Since Lovely Bones is apparently back in the news Because people keep asking Sersha about Lovely Bones Stanley Tucci is like That's true Buzz for Conclave and people are like Well, we can't just let the lovely bones be representative of his career And I'm like, because Conclave is so much better Have you seen Conclave?

No, but it's not like Like, ah, this is the great Stanley Tucci performance to represent his career. He's good in Conclave, though. So at least that would be better, you know what I mean? But better is not problem solved, you know, like. Sure. I'm just saying, see the movie. I think you'll like Tucci.

I don't know if you like the movie very soon. It's opening very soon. Yeah. The second episode, you will get an excursion. It's on the third Friday of every month. These are deep dives into Oscar ephemera. We love to obsess about on this show. Things like EW. Fall Movie previews.

We recap awards shows from like the 90s. We've done indie spirits. We've done MTV Movie Awards. We should do maybe a Golden Globes or something soon, Joe. We really should do it. We've done Hollywood Reporter roundtables, including this month as chosen by our listeners. We're doing the 2018 Hollywood Reporter. actress round table.

Which should be up by the time you're listening to this. I believe, if it's not the past Friday, it'll be this coming Friday. I forget at this point. I think it's the past Friday. Great. Go check that out. Lots of sapphic longing between your favorite character actress and Oscar winner. Nicole Kidman talking about Keith Urban.

Stephanie Germanada A.k.a. Lady Gaga talking about Circle in the Square. Oh, my God. You thought it started with the House of Gucci Press tour. Boy, were you wrong. Yeah. So go on over to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz and sign up for turbulent brilliance. That's patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz.

Hell yeah. Very good. Very good salesman. chip there, Chris. So we're going to talk about the menu. We're going to put Chris through the paces of describing the plot of the menu in 60 seconds. But before we do, I'm going to give a rundown of this movie. This is the 2022 film The Menu, directed by Mark Milaud. He of Succession fame. We'll talk about that. Written by Seth Reese and Will Tracy starring Ray Fines, Anya Taylor Joy, Nicholas Holt, It's my darling boy, Nikki Holt. Hong Chow, John Linguizamo, Janet McTeer, Reed Burnie, Judith Light, Paul Adelstein, Arturo Castro,

Rob Yang, Mark St. Cyr, Amy Carrero. It premiered on September 10th, 2022 at the Toronto International Film Festival before opening wide on November 18th. Chris, I'm going to find my stopwatch. Thanksgiving. I'm going to reset my stopwatch. It's the Thanksgiving. Listen, manja, eat. You will, what was, that was one of the great Hong Chow line readings. You will, you will get less than you desire, but more than, you will eat less than you desire, but more than you deserve. Phenomenal, phenomenal line readings by Hong Chow in this movie. All right, Chris, the clock is ready to start. Are you ready to describe the plot of Zimeneu? Sure. All right, and begin.

All right, so we're going to this remote island where there is a unique dining experience from famous chef's luck, played by Refines, and we meet all of these various rich people who are going there. We are mostly focusing on Nicholas Holtz as a foodie nerd, very pretentious guy, and his seeming girlfriend, Margot, played by Anya Taylor Joy. As the night progresses, we realize that each course of a meal is some type of. metaphor for, I don't know how evil everyone is at the table. You have a rich couple who read Bernie's cheating on his wife. You have John Leguizamo as an actor who is like past his prime and like checking out artistically. You have these finance bros who are, you know, evil finance bros. Then you have like Janet McTeer as like a food critic. Over the course of the night, we realize that the chef is trying to kill all of them as like some type of weird

but also punishment for all of them and Anya Taylor Joy is actually a sex worker that Nicholas Holt has hired knowing that she is going to die in this scenario and uh he basically gets called to the table and embarrassed in front of everyone and how he's like loves all of this but can't do it himself and you know then he commits suicide and Anya Taylor Joy challenges chef enough that she he makes her a cheeseburger and she gets to leave because she showed the initiative to leave, I guess. And then everybody becomes a smore. 37 seconds over.

Everybody does become a smore. Listen. We're going to start at the end first. You're right to say that it doesn't go anywhere because it's so repetitive throughout. And it's like, one of it is like, well, he sexually harassed one of his employees. And then she gets to cook a meal for all the women while the men have to go on a chase and it's here the thing first of all we're going to start at the end first and I'm just going to say this movie slanders the proud uh the proud smore in a way that I find it's the final insult of this movie truly that that that it's all he could talk ethically sourced he could talk yeah inethically sourced chocolate jerk off motion come on man like her

Hershey's chocolate in America. I don't... That's all, like... I mean, everyone outside of America... Who gives us? Makes fun of our Hershey chocolate because it tastes like stomach bile. It's...

Well, it's... It's a grittier chocolate. Listen, I'm not going to stand up for the quality of American chocolate. All I'm saying is... Smoor is a perfectly delicious little treat. And, too, to...

To speak so snootily about it. The final. insult of this movie but anyway um yes this this is my big problem with the movie as a horror movie is that there is no movement to it in the final half of it like it sets it up well right yeah the first 15 minutes of the movie are like intriguing and even even like i would even go you know further into that and you know i think by the time everybody realizes is what's going on. It's sort of, it's set up its devilishness really well. It sort of strings

along. You get the thing where like the restaurant critic is like, oh, it's fiend. He's, it's, it's fiendishly clever and whatnot. And, and obviously, Nicholas Holt is going along with it for, you know, much longer than anybody else. But I think once the realization sets in for everybody, Once the Sioux Chef shoots himself, once everybody sort of realizes that like the, you know, that this is for real, the movie really declines to become a horror movie in service of making a point, I guess, about how the wealthy will ultimately not choose to save themselves. for reasons of villainy. Like, it's, I'm not entirely sure of the, of, you know, what statement the movie is trying to make by saying, like, wealthy people, aren't they awful? But also, they will just, like, accept, you know, being murdered elaborately because, for whatever reasons. And yet, because of ego or because of, say, of public face, I don't know.

And yet, this movie does show them trying to escape at a few different times. He gives them the men the chance to run away. Reed Bernie tries to leave and he gets his finger cut off. So that point is muddled, but it's also, at some point, you're just like, okay, well, now do the thing where, like, people try and escape and get picked off. or people like, you know, give us cannibalism. Well, something, something. They turn on each other.

They, they, rather than just sort of like continue to sit at these tables, like, VELCath. There's no sawtrap in this movie. There's no elaborate plot device that keeps people there. There's no roller coaster. Like it's, it's no peaks and valleys. It's a roller coaster. If it's a roller coaster, it's just like. Like, it's a straight flat track from an elevated position where you can look down upon all of these characters and be like, what a bunch of jerks.

And it's like, okay, I don't, I'm not interested. It's not interesting to me. I want to have fun with this movie. You've set up this really fun premise. You've set up this really fun setting. And this, you know, you've given, it's intriguing to me that this chef has gotten all of it. his minions sort of on board with being willing to die for him.

Yeah, like everyone's drank the Kool-Aid somehow. Right. And so it's like, explore that a little bit. You get a little bit of that with Hong Chow's fight and, you know, with Anya Taylor Joy. But like, there are, there's a lot of meat left on the bone, not to make a, you know,

a clumsy food metaphor, but like, I don't know. I think this is, this movie has a really interesting setup and then it I think by either active laziness or just sort of like a sin of a mission, the movie just sort of really rests on its laurels and is like, isn't it fun to eat the rich? And we'll talk about, you know, that too, that the eat the rich trend of this year. But it's also caught in between this like presenting reality, but like not circumstances we buy. Like if this was some type of heightened reality, where. we could feel like we were watching something even borderline science fiction

it would maybe work more like it should be you know if we were watching like Charlie Kaufman horror movie or like a Terry Gilliam movie where everything is super heightened we wouldn't be maybe asking so many of those questions that you know take us out of the movie

and I think in terms of like it's really really really skin deep first thought, like social satire. I have a hard time not contrasting this, and especially that year, with Glass Onion, which, you know, say what you will about Glass Onion. Glass Onion, I think is far from a perfect movie, but in terms of satire and satire of the wealthy, you know, I don't think Glass Onion makes any particularly unique observations or, you know, anything particularly insightful, but those jokes hit so hard and they land so well that it matters less because

it's that entertaining. Whereas I also feel like the menu feels like softball. Like it's, you know, it's the menu also kind of lets itself out off of the hook in the fact that like a, a, a celebrity chef, a sort of elite chef. is ultimately more removed from the ills of the world than somebody like Edward Norton's tech bro character and Glass Onion, right? So he can sort of exist, Slowick in this movie can exist

in this sort of vacuum where it's like there's, he's, you know, he can do this sort of awful act within this cone of silence and ultimately what is it what does it matter to the rest of the world kind of nothing right whereas glass onion that's that's at least a movie that is attempting to make social satire about things that are actually sort of pertinent to society and the other thing about about glass onion and we'll talk about this glass onion triangle of sadness and and the menu were sort of talked about in relation to one another quite a bit in 2022.

It talked about it's this sort of unofficial trilogy of eating the rich. And the thing about Glass Onion is it doesn't let its wealthy, connected characters off the hook, but it does allow them to sort of sit in their own... venality, you know, by the end of the movie, that they have to sort of, like, they've done the right thing, but they also sort of have to look at this mirror that's sort of been held up to them. Whereas in the menu, these characters don't have that experience. It's all about the audience looking at these characters and feeling very self-satisfying. by the fact that they're all dying.

I think there's a good joke in the menu, which is like, I laughed at it when he asked the assistant where she went to school and she says, Brown, and he says, do you have student loans? And she said, no. And he goes, that's why you're going to die. And it's just like, oh, you know what I mean? Like, we can all sort of like, you know, it's a funny joke, but it ultimately plays into this thing of just like, oh, we're better than these characters.

These characters suck for, you know, their various. you know, uh, reasons and we can just sort of be satisfied watching them roast like marshmallows at the end. And it's like, okay, but like give me a story first before we get to this point. Or like really lean into a concept. Like that's why I compared it to Glass Onion. Like Glass Onion is joke first. It is joke forward. And like this movie is really unsure of where, what direction it's supposed to lean into. And in the end, it leans towards. towards nothing. You know, it's very kind of beige. Even the, even the types of people. Like, I'm not going to sit here and say that, like, Nicholas Holt's character is a good person.

But, like, what's his ultimate sin? His ultimate sin in this movie, before we find out the thing where, like, he knew it was going to be a murder party and invited Anya Taylor Joy. By that point, the audience is already on board with wanting to see him die. So, like, I don't buy that as, like, you know, that doesn't change anything to me. The thing about Nicholas Holt's character is he's pretentious and he's a foodie. And you make the good point that, like, he's a fucking nerd. And this movie really invites you to look down upon this fucking foodie nerd who cries at the, you know, pretentious explanations of food and thinks he knows shit.

And, like, ultimately, the movie just kind of invites you to join Ray Fines and stepping on his neck. and, like, invites you to sort of take glee with, this dark glee with... Because he's already been an inexcusable asshole to Margo. Right. But ultimately, again, by that point, you've already, you know, turned on him. It's mostly you are asked to hate this guy because he's a pretentious foodie, and we hate these people. And we hate... I mean, the one good thing that this movie has that other movies don't, maybe, is that

it says fan culture is awful and toxic. It does, but it does it. It does it in a very basic way. I'm not even satisfied in the way that it does that, though, where it's just like, because ultimately what I think would be interesting is a movie that's sort of just like, because Ray Fine's character does, right? You are the people who have, you know, ruined my art form or whatever. And it's like, buddy, you did a chef's table episode.

talked about watching it a billion times. You know what I mean? Like, you have played into this. You know what I mean? You are not, you know, outside of this. And I think it allows Rayfe finds his character to be a little too. It, it jabs at him, but it jabs at him for being like a sexual harasser. You know what I mean? It does not jab at him for like taking part in. Being a hypocrite. Right, right. But you look around that room, right? Nicholas Holt is pretentious. Janet McTeer is a filthy critic, and we hate those filthy critics. Reed Bernie cheated on Judith Light. Judith Light got cheated on.

How dare you do anything to Judith Light? But it's like, why is Judith Light dying? Because, you know, because her husband cheated on her? You know what I mean? Like, if the whole idea is that it's supposed to be this morality, you know what I mean? And part of this is, yes, it's this. is, you know, this is the works of a madman. So he doesn't have to be, like, righteous. But I think the movie certainly invites its audience to feel righteous. These tech bros are the

worst. John Leguizamo is a bad actor. He doesn't even seem like particularly vile as actors go. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's just lost the creative juice. He's willing to cash in and not feel creatively fulfilled, which, you know, we can, we can and have judged a lot. of creative people for this, I don't think any of us think they need to die because... This movie also, in two separate areas, villainizes the act of patronizing sex workers in a way that I find a little hypocritical to the fact that it sort of valorizes Anya Taylor Joy, but the people who, you know, have availed themselves as they're also bad for other reasons, but this movie definitely takes part in the whole thing of like,

If you hire a sex worker, you are categorically exploitive. You are, you are, you are, you're, that's part of your portfolio of being a bad person. Right. So I think this movie is just like, it's not as clever. It's also, how kind of dated are these foodie jokes, like a mouthfeel joke in 2022? Algae versus aljate, like, okay. Well, I mean, this, this script is not, maybe it didn't get. some type of freshening, polishing, updating, but the script did kick around for a while.

I also think, like, because we've just talked about all these characters, it's maybe biting off too much to have all of these different characters, because it also doesn't define them clearly enough. I think that's a big problem for the Nicholas Holt character and the Janet McTeer character. You know, you have a fan and a critic. It's also, it's also, it's a big problem. It's, Like, I'll just say, food critics, I maybe don't know what their echelon is like. But, like, if you're making a movie, you're probably talking about all critics. And it's like, if you think film critics are these, like, rich, wealthy, cannot, cannot speak for their more, their morality. But, like, film critics are not these, like, fancy schmance type of.

It's really funny the way people imagine. And it feeds into. We're all gutter buckets. Like, come on. Exactly. Like, we're, you know, whatever. I don't know if I'd call us gutter buckets, but we certainly, like, the idea of the film critic as this sort of like, effete fancy pants in their, in their ivory tower, penthouse apartment or whatever, right, jet set.

These jet setting, you know, elites or whatever. And it's like, have you ever gone to a screening before? Like, the elite set, this is not, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're lucky if we've bathed. Listen. I'm not, listen. I've refused to be constricted. I know you, babe. But like some, you know, truly, some of the way that we gutter buckets show up, you're lucky if we've bathed. And then, like, I guess Nicholas Holt is, his character is closer to. And I also think, like, the rude dismissiveness that he just kind of throws around to Margo. it feels the most accurate,

but we also spend the most time with him of all of these various tables at the restaurant. It's just, I think because there's so much going on, it only has the time to be very undefined and basic about these characters. Like you mentioned the Reed-Bernie-Duty couple. It's like, so what all have they really done wrong to deserve this? Right.

He came to the restaurant too many times and didn't remember that he had halibut. You know what I mean? It's like, okay. Well, and I, again, he didn't enjoy, he didn't appreciate the experiences right in front of him, which, okay, does someone need to die for this? I don't know. And I think these things can be solved, and maybe this is a Milod problem. And again, I think Milad is a really good director. If you look at his succession roster of episodes, it's all.

all the big ones. All killer, no filler. All of the season finalies, all of the season premieres, all the big ones, he did Connor's wedding, which he won an Emmy for. The Turnhaven episode, which Will Tracy actually wrote,

which is the one where they go to the Pierce family's compound in season two. It's all of the, you know, all of the great ones that weren't Lorraine Scafaria episodes were Mark Milet episode. So like, I think

is an incredible director in that regard. But I think in this way, I think there's a way to just tweak the perspective of the movie where it's a little bit more, you know, the mind of the madman here, right? To get to get a little bit more, maybe a little bit more into Ray finds his head. Because ultimately, I find myself so dissatisfied by the way the movie ends. Because you're right, we talk about fan culture and we talk about critic culture and we talk about patron culture, you know what I mean, and venture capital and all these sort of things that are, and artists who have, you know, lost the, you know, the joy in their career, whatever the fuck Leguizamo's problem is. And then ultimately, when it comes time to turn that gaze back on fines, which is what I think this ending is supposed to be doing that Anya Taylor, joy sort of confronts him and is like, you're bullshit. You've, you've, you know, not, your, your, your job is to feed people food that, you know,

they will enjoy and you have failed at your job and whatever. And the whole thing then turns on her challenge to him to just like, just make me a cheeseburger. And which I also think is this very kind of like basic way of like, you know, reverse snobbery. Food. Yes, reverse. Thank you. snobbery is exactly the term I was looking for.

Because she wants a smash burger with American cheese and fries. And it's the only moment where the movie sort of indulges in food porn. So it really sort of like, you know, presses on the scales. I don't know. When they squish that burger and all the grease comes out, I don't want to eat it.

Oh, I want to have, I'll take two of that. I love, I love a good smash burger. Those fries also look under-seasoned. Well, where'd they get the crinkler? Where in this guy's kitchen was there a crinkle machine to make crinkle cut fries? Where did he have sesame seed buns anywhere in this island that are, you know, squitting? To have Kong Chauzee crinkle fries. Also that.

Her character is dead by that point. But I just think it's it's too, I think it's too easy. I think it's too simplistic that like all of a sudden she, she, she she gets one over on him and he discovers the joy maybe in like making like a simple burger. And then ultimately what comes of that is she gets to leave. He remains unchanged by this moment. He just like goes right ahead with his plan as, you know, devised. So like that moment has absolutely no impact on him whatsoever.

She leaves without any resistance. and then just sort of like sits and eats the burger while the place burns, which like would make more sense if all of these people had been awful to her. But they weren't, including Judith Light, who like found out that she had been, you know, having sex with her husband. Like, I don't understand why we get to end on this burger chomp of Anya Taylor Joy feeling very like smug and self-satisfied that she survived this thing. and all of these people died and it's just like

I don't know if that emotionally tracks for me babe like I don't I don't I don't know well and like Margo stands as such a contrast point to all of these characters you know we've we've gone at length of saying why these other characters don't work but Margo doesn't work either Margo is not a fully flesh character yeah and I would argue it's not a good performance from Anya Taylor Joy I think she does what she can with that role. I think, yes, I think, again, it's just sort of part and parcel to, I think the only people who are sort of elevating what they're given on the page is Ray finds to a degree.

I think he, you know, he brings, he brings that Ray finds sort of like terrifyingness to it. I think it's not his greatest performance, but I think he does bring something to it. And then it really is Hong Chao, who like above and beyond just like takes this really, you know, fifth or sixth down the cast list character and makes her truly shine and sort of leaps off the screen of this thing. I mean, I would argue she's given more to do than. anyone in this movie but she is also an actor you know really taking an inch and making a mile out of it um i'm less impressed with rave fines like i said i've not it it was francis dollar hide on well butron um the i i would add janet mcteer to this i have fun when janet mctier is on screen yeah um and everything out of her mouth is fucking stupid but it doesn't feel

as stupid because it's Janet McTeer saying it. And she does, she's such an intelligent performer. For as much as like it's an alien of a character and that like it's like it's a screenwriter's fantasy, this character she's playing, this evil critic. Right. She makes, she creates that character in her performance. Like she's incredibly recognizable as a, you know, as a type. You know what I mean? From the second you hear her talk.

Mm-hmm. Hong Chow and Janet McTeer are the only performances that make me believe the world as it is presented to us. That it doesn't need to be more heightened. You know, like their scenes are when I think the movie is working. The scene at the beginning where Hong Chow welcomes them all to the island and sort of gives them this little tour. and she's so clipped and disdainful, but in a way that feels very, like, professional when she talks about, even very, like, you know, functionary line readings that she has, or lines that she's had to give, where she's talking about, you know, we wake up in the morning, we prepare, we ferment, we, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

We slaughter, we chop, we gel, and the one guy's like, you gel. And she just goes, we gel. It's just like, she's, she has complete command of all of those scenes. I mentioned tortillas, tortillas deliciosis. It's just, it's, and she also sells the, you know, the suspense of it, the sort of like forebodingness of it at the beginning, where it's just like, Oh, these people who work for him are in a cult, you know? Yeah, cult members.

And I am a sucker for any movie that sort of has a setup where you're like, y'all have walked into a cult. And you're going to have to figure out your way about it. Yes. And so, and I love that shit. And so, and she really, really sells that incredibly well. The way that she, again, I talked about the, her whispering in Arturo Castro's about you will eat less than you desire and more than you deserve.

And she says it in the most sort of like witheringly disdainful. Like she communicates disdain better than any of the slowic lines in this in this new idea. Like a witch removing her glove and revealing her claw. Kind of. Yes. Yes, exactly. Exactly. We're like when she, every time she brings Janet McTier more and more broken emulsion, which is such a brady thing for fines to do, by the way, of just like, oh, you noticed that my tiny little emulsion is broken, you will have all of the broken emulsion. Which is so funny to think of what's happening when, like, did he go back and, like, whip up a full batch of broken emulsion on the spot just to fucking piss this lady off? It's funny. It's funny. That's, you know, that's how I amuse myself during this movie as a match.

what's happening off-stream. I amused myself by thinking of Mariah Carey saying, You've got a broken emulsion. Oh, my. Stomp, stom, stom, stom, stom, stom, stom, stom, walking away. Show's gone nonverbal. Left. I've left this podcast. I fucking hate you. Wait. The other thing that annoyed me about the ending was

it's all precipitated by Anya Taylor Joy. It's a classic, it's kind of a classic scene, right? Where the hero finds herself in the villain's layer and learns something about the villain. And in this case, she learns that Ray Fines was a stone cold haughty in his 20s and used to smile. He used to have joy in his cooking, right? And this is supposed to be, now these scenes are, you know, in, the, you know, sort of hero's journey of it all, these scenes are

supposed to provide our hero with the weaponry to slay the dragon, right? This is where she finds Excalibur. This is where she's supposed to find the thing that is supposed to at least give her her best shot at

defeating the bad guy. And what she does is sort of that's when she gets the idea to order the cheeseburger because she wants to play upon his lost innocence or something, but it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't change him in any way. It doesn't, you don't have to have him not go through with it, but he has to ultimately be thrown off of his game enough that something goes wrong before this ultimate

smores roasting. You can still end with the smores roasting, but you can't have it be without any resistance. You have to have him break at that moment, or else the whole cheeseburger scene wasn't there for anything other than for... Yeah. This movie is almost like petulantly trying to

not satisfy you know revelation fallout, you know. It's like it's trying to deny audience expectations in a way that is servicing

nothing but also just petulant and frustrating as a viewer yes because it it signifies nothing it doesn't it you know it doesn't illuminate anything more honest it just feels more like edge lordy i suppose in the vision of this movie i am the the pathetic foodie who thinks who watches movies all the time so he thinks he knows how movies work and then if you put me in the kitchen I would come up with a bullshitty pile of shallots and lamb and, and maybe, you know, certainly. Listen, and making movies is not just a skill set in understanding how stories work. Making movies is also a skill set in like managing large groups of people into a singular vision. As similarly with a kitchen, right?

Similarly with a chef. I was mad how often I felt bad for Nicholas Holt's character in this movie because I feel like certainly that's not like he is a dick of course he's a dick but then I watch this I I am listen not not to sound like an asshole but like I haven't overdeveloped sense of empathy when it comes to these things this is why I can never watch I could never watch American Idol bad auditions I got to upset for the people embarrassing You have like reverse schadenfreude, which is like a thing. Like people who watch people get embarrassed, feel the embarrassment. Yes. One million percent. One million percent. And so I'm watching that scene with Holt in the kitchen. And I'm, that's me. You know what I mean? And so it's like, well, I may be, you know, an asshole, but I don't deserve this shoddy treatment. You know what I mean? So yes, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, And then I, of course, knowing that he is an asshole in this movie, I'm just like, why do I feel bad for this guy? But I feel so bad for this guy. This is the part of me that I watch that scene in The Avengers where Hulk like whaps Loki from side to side and just sort of like beats the shit out of him. And I feel bad for Loki. And I'm just like, well, that seems excessive after Loki's like tried to actually like destroy the world or whatever.

And I'm just like, this is my problem. This is what happens. Well, I think the Nicholas Holt character is the closest thing this movie gets to satisfying resolution. Because there is the unexpected and there is, you know, satisfying narrative arc in, I mean, not to sound gross about it. And maybe it's the movie being gross about it. But like, he kills himself. So he doesn't even get to enjoy becoming the smore. which you know what he wanted.

That's how he's there. He knew this was going to happen, and he wants to become the thing that slow it cooks. You know, like that's how obsessed he is, and he ultimately denies himself that. How different is that than some, I know I bag on our people often, but how is that different than some pop stand gay on Twitter being like murder me Charlie XX or whatever? Like, I don't think we can, I don't think there's as many people who should act smug about this as who are acting smug about this. I don't think there's many people who are earnestly wanting Charlie XX to murder them when they say that. It is the hyperbole of language that is part of queer humor. Who earnestly want to be cooked in their own favorite chefs?

You know what I mean? This is, this is taking, this is taking things to an extreme. I'm just saying, like, who among, who among us hasn't said breaking. my arm, you know, to somebody that they stand. I've maybe sent various Instagram posts

being like, break my nose. I'm saying. I'm saying. So let's all take a step back and let let Nikki Holt be benignly awful. But he is awful specifically to Marco in a way that I think is

unforgivable. Of course he is. But it's also because we are very much invited into margot's shoes also you know what i mean like that that we are very much invited to take this and i also the idea that like her name's aaron and she's from massachusetts it's like oh okay so we've got a real like you know normie back bay normie or whatever and it's just like All right. Blue collar. So now all of a sudden, she...

Yeah, because she's not that interesting either. She's not that interesting. I'm sorry. She's not that interesting. She's not that interestingly played. So let's talk about Anya Taylor Joy then while we're here, because this obviously comes during... Not the best year for her, although not the worst either. I think, okay, I don't know.

What are your thoughts on the Northman? I never hear you talk about the Northman, Robert. The Northman is way more boring than it should be because I watch that movie and I'm like, why am I not more excited by this? I think it's just, for me, it's, I hate to just call a movie slow because, you know, I will sit here and watch four-hour movies and be enthralled the entire time. But the North, well, she, first of all, has next to nothing to do in that movie. She has the least interesting role in that movie.

It's absolutely true. It's interesting that she's one of the reuniting people with Robert Eggers in that movie because it's like for this. Well, sometimes we do a favor for the people we like working with. Sometimes we just like working with people. I think that's a very underrated. The Northman is a cool fucking movie, but I spend almost all of its running time being like, why am I not more into this? The Northman is in many ways a van painting of a movie. And it, you know, it is riding victoriously into Valhalla and whatnot.

I never think about it. So I feel like there must be something that didn't really, like, click with me for this movie. But I remember. Kidman is so good in this movie. When people talk about Baby Girl, like Kidman hasn't gone for it in a performance in however long. It's because they only are thinking of her television stuff. They're only thinking of her being on TV. Because everybody's so anti all the television, which she is apparently continuing to do more and more

and more and more of it. She's not stopping. She's made enough good career choices that I will allow her to indulge in whatever she wants to, honestly. Yeah, and like the Northman is a supporting performance. She's not in half of the movie. But like her big scene, that is Nicole Kidman

going for it, my friends. And that is a great Nicole Kidman performance. Best thing about the movie. So Anya Taylor Joy is in that movie and also Amsterdam, which is a legitimately just mess of a movie. And that's another one. Amsterdam's the type of thing that I'm like,

like, I want to mount a defense of this, but I cannot because it's just no two dots connect each other. I like a movie that's just sort of like a confetti canon of actors, you know what I mean? Like, I like movies like that, but like this movie, like, there's no, there's very little to cling on to. I don't even remember the character she plays. I remember her as the one element that seems to be on the wavelength of what this movie is trying to achieve.

So I thought she acquitted herself finally in that movie. Well, again, I don't think 2022 is a particularly bad year for her. And, like, she gets a Golden Globe nomination for the menu, which we'll talk about. But, like, her career starts off on such a quick rise because she's in The Witch and then she's in Split very shortly thereafter. She also did Morgan and she was in the, um, the, uh, Barack Obama. movie Barry that I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who saw. I saw that at Tiff that year. But I think between the witch and split, it was such this like double barrel

debut of this alien-looking girl who could be both innocent and then also like at the crucial moment strong that, like, Hollywood is addicted to, absolutely loves. I loved her in both of those movies, more so maybe the witch. I thought Split was McAvoy's show kind of through and through. She's also in Corey Finley's Thurrow Breads, a movie I wanted to like a lot more than I did. Did you ever see Thoreau Breds? Yeah. It's her and Olivia Cook and dearly departed Anton Yelkin. in this movie about like, you know, rich girl and her friend and all the, you know, fucked up shit they can get up with. She does glass, which...

Glass more like ass. Yeah, yes, I don't like glass. I think glass sort of takes a lot of potential and kind of doesn't really know what to do with it. Then right before the pandemic happens, she is the titular role in Emma, period. Emma, period. Which, I think she's great.

Meanwhile, through all of this, the new mutants keeps kicking around. That's right. I forgot about the new mutants. Kicked around. And she's like the lead in that, right? Kicked around. Pushback.

Isn't she the lead in that? I believe she is a lead. I remember at one point. I guess it's like it's an X-Men movie, so there's a team. Pre-COVID, there was some... someone on like a red carpet, she's doing, you know, red carpet quickie interviews and someone asks her about it. Like, I think it might have been for Emma period, you know, right before COVID. And she involuntarily cringed. I will never forget the look on her face in that

interview. Oh, that's funny. Where it's just like, oh, the people involved can't even hide that that thing was a problem child. Speaking of movies that bounced around for a little bit and Ultimately, I didn't even notice when it got released. She was in Radioactive, the Marjan Satrapi movie about Marie Curie, where Rosamond Pike Typical Amazon Dumping Ground is Marie Curie, and Anya Taylor Joy must have played her daughter, I imagine. But that's, I remember that one being a TIF movie and being like, whatever happened to the Marie Curie movie that I didn't see. So then, after, during the pandemic. She is on Netflix's The Queen's Gambit.

She had also been in Peeky Blinders, I guess, which I like so many of the elements of Peaky Blinders, and yet every time I look at that, I'm like, I don't want to do, like, grimy criminals of the era before people had toothpaste. You know what I mean? Like, I just, I don't. That's a lot of that. Pinky blinders, that's not my business. That's my husband's business.

he loves that show. Good for him. Not my business. But anyway, she's also a voice in that dark crystal show. I was going to say, you better not forget the dark crystal sequel. Okay. Talk about it. I watched all of that dumb show.

I remember nothing happening in. And it was also like, oh, well, it's not puppets anymore. Right. Right. It's weird. 98% of its charm. But anyway, so she's in Netflix's The Queen's Gambit, which is the show about Chess, a show that you and I both...

It looms even larger for us because we both participated in that Vanity Fair awards insert for the Queen's Gambit. But she's great in that. She gets amazing reviews. She wins a Golden Globe. She wins a SAG award. She would have won an Emmy if she didn't have the misfortune of being in the same Emmy year as Kate Winslet in Merivistown. If you notice, she wins the globe because she's the year before Kate Winslet.

She wins the SAG because she's in the year. before, but because the Emmy straddles calendar years she runs into the brick wall that is Kate Winslet. Although, wasn't that that the Queen's Gambit won best limited series

over? Yes. In the upset over Merri of East Town, which is not a thing I agree with. Although I like the Queen's Gambit, but like I fucking loved Mary Vistown. They're both really great shows. Marivistown is something I regularly think about. I should watch that again. I should watch that again. It's great. Because it's like, it's fucking

great. Perfect television. Perfect television in that it's contained, just a limited series. I don't have to watch 40,000 episodes of something to get in the full story. And it doesn't exactly go to places you expect it to go. Yeah. The interesting thing about now the sort of what Queen's Gambit does for her career, because it sort of elevates her to the status of a leading actress, which is I think seen, it's reflected in something like the menu where she is the female lead. She's sort of, she's the

POV character. She's, for as much as Ray Fines is a lead, he's the villain, so there's only so much we sort of you know, are with him in this movie. That's kind of the only movie up until Furiosa

of this year, where she's the lead. And yet it feels like Anya Taylor Joy is sort of ensconced among the lead actress class of Hollywood right now, sort of hot, young, up-and-coming in the realm of Margot Robbie, even though I think if you compare the two of them, because they're both in Amsterdam. Well, and I think Furiosa has had the effect of putting somewhat of a pause on her leading lady career because it took so long to come out because the filming of it was so long.

Post-production of that movie was so long. And then the movie came out and it didn't do well. And it kind of does nothing for her. What did you think of Furiosa? Sorry, I loved it. Did you? Okay. I didn't hate it.

I think as a Any Taylor Joy vehicle, it can only be disappointing because I think what's great about that movie is that it is, it's Furiosa's story, but in like many different offshoots. Like, I love what is so storybook about it. I love that it's basically these connect. vignettes that are all very different. But it kind of asks so little of her. She doesn't even really get to be the Charlie's Theron of that movie, even though she's playing the same character. The person who gets to have the furious effect on the movie is Tom Burke.

Tom Burke rips in that movie. So good. Sure. And like Hemsworth gets to have all the fun. Like, he's the one that gets that fun. Is a hoot in that movie. Unfortunately does so little for her. There is something where you watch Mad Max Fury Road, and you walk out of that mentioning six or seven set pieces in that movie that are so instantly memorable.

I think the thing with Furiosa is I don't have that. I think there are so many, like, there's a lot of Furiosa that has what Furyosa. that has what Fury Road has and there's a lot of like little things that it's like there is no there's no discovery like the discovery of the guitar player in Mad Max Fury Road or there's no

the action scenes are just not quite as memorable the only one I really mention or I really remember is the one that feels so obvious actually that's true the parachute guys when those guys lifted off the ground in the theater I involuntarily. That was fun.

That's, Furiosa is a movie that loves parachutes and also, um, a color run. This movie loves, like, Furiosa in modern day would be running the color run every year and just would get like die, just roan all over. Furiosa is just a long distance runner, like, basically. The interesting thing, though. To sort of keep it with Anya is, because it's not like I'm like, I'm not an Anya skeptic, but I am sort of like, I still need maybe like two or three more movies where she's a lead that really like knock me out to get there fully with where I'm supposed to be. One of which could be Dune Part 3 whenever they get to Dune Messiah because her character. I believe they start filming that next year. Her character, who was introduced at the very end of this, she's the, you know, the pre-born Alia Atreides, who he only sees in a dream.

She's, if not a co-lead of that movie. It depends on how you, it depends on how you tell that story. There's a way to tell that story where it becomes this, like, great and tragic story of Alia Atreides. So they cast her for a reason. They cast big for. a reason. And so there's probably going to be a lot on her plate with that

movie. And they've already set themselves on a course to maybe not adapt that book completely faithfully, because they've already sort of put Zendaya's character onto

a different path, I think, by the end of Dune Part 2, so it'll be interesting. But Looking forward to her and that, she's, the only other project I'm seeing on her Wikipedia, at least, is this Scott Derrickson movie that she's doing with Miles Teller and Sigourney Weaver about snipers. It's an Apple TV thing, of course. So, I don't know. I think the jury for me is a little still out on Anya Taylor-Joy. Where are you? I would like to see her continuing to work with more attouristic, for lack of the better word, directors. I think that's where for me she's been the most interesting. She's apparently attached to this Roman-Roman-Gavris movie as well.

With her- Interesting. That's what IMDB is telling me at least. But I've learned to- I do not love Athena. Sorry to various friends of the show. I know. So many people I know really, really liked it. I still have never seen it. I think there's a lot of, I think that movie asks you to project a lot onto its characters rather than giving you character details. And that's just something that always kind of grinds my gears. You also, very nonchalantly, skipped over her Academy Award winning performance as Princess Peach in the Super Mario Bros movie. All right. Talk about it. Talk about it. Listen, we do need to have voice Oscars, and we should have given it Taylor Joy for a performance that's, let's go, I'm the princess.

I'm being facetious here, but like that performance is, they literally were like, can you send us a voice note saying these five phrases? And she did it. That's a movie that is so, it's weird to talk about because it was a huge financial success. It was one of those things where, like, you know in this post-pandemic era where, and we are not the only people who have talked about this, where sort of the chicken little roller coaster of like one movie fails and there's like 12 op-eds about how like theatrical film is dead. And then like a few movies succeed and there are these like giant successes and nobody really ever like retains that in their head. So Super Mario Brothers was definitely like this giant success. but like there's things that people you know critics didn't like it though it's the whole thing with Chris Pratt as Mario I remember when I watched this movie I got so mad when I realized that Mario's motivation in this movie is that his parents don't believe in him as a plumber which I'm like fuck this dumb shit movie and you know what else I watched so I was working the other day and I just sort of like I had Netflix on.

I was like, I just need something to be on while I make Cinematrix grids. And I just need to have something that's like low attention grabby. And so I did the thing where you just like turn on Netflix and you start flipping through movies. And you like press play on the first like one that you feel like matches, you know, your requirement. And so I watched the Garfield movie from this year. I saw that log. I was like, what are you doing? That's exactly what I was.

was doing. I was, I literally, back to back to back. I watched that and I watched Ghostbusters afterlife, which weirdly I kind of liked. What did I watch it recently and you were like, can I ask why? Oh, yeah. What was it? You were watching. Oh, fuck, what was it? Because I was like, why? And you were like, you were like lack of options. Shit, what was it? Now I'm going to bring up your letter. Oh, no, decision fatigue. I can't even remember what it was. I can't even remember what I'm bringing up your letterbox. Something worth my time. I'm bringing it up because I'm finding it up because it's going to bother me if I don't know it.

Let's see. Before we end this episode, we should take a quick two-minute detour into what our Halloween watching has been. Oh, we actually should. Because I think this was probably a Halloween movie. Oh, it was It Chapter 2. Jesus Christ. I was like, you don't like these movies. Why are you watching?

I like the first It movie. Even with your nemesis? Even with your nemesis right there in it? Who's my nemesis? Oh, yeah. That's, I mean, maybe the one movie I've liked with my nemesis, even though I think my nemesis is bad in that movie. Oh, he's fine in that movie.

Jesus Christ. Wait, but I want to go back to Garfield, though, because, like, to the point where I was mad at the Super Mario Brothers movie for being a my parents-to-believe-in-me movie, the fucking Garfield movie is about him reuniting with his deadbeat cat dad and, like, and forging a close relationship with his deadbeat dad. Fucking Garfield.

What the fuck is going on with movies these days? I hate it so much. Why would you do a Garfield movie that's not about the central, you know, gay opposites of Garfield and Odie? Like that... I'm saying. I'm saying. This is also a movie that like...

Elimination. You are bad for the culture. That twice shows a gag of Garfield eating pizza. Garfield... No. Doesn't eat pizza, you fucking idiots. That's like giving Popeye Asparagus. All right.

Anyway, I'm getting too mad about that. The other thing about the super. We are rooting for you. We like you. We do. Stop doing movies like this that do nothing for you. What did I write down about Seth Reese and Will Tracy? Seth Reese is a late night with Seth Myers guy. He came up from The Onion. Two things I really like, particularly. I think Late Night with Seth Myers is the only late night show that I will watch clips of and be like, oh, that seems fun. Like, I think, and from everything that I've heard about Seth Myers is that he's a really good guy.

Nobody eye rolls the Seth Myers show. No, he's great. Well, Tracy was a succession writer. He has a credit on, I think, three succession episodes. one of which is Turnhaven, the one with the Pierce family, one of which is Tailgate Party, the one where Shiv and Tom have that horrible, horrible breakup fight on the terrace of their apartment, on their 11th Eve party. Oh, top 10 succession scenes of all times. So good. Yes. So good.

So, like, the both of these guys have, you know, pedigrees that I like. And I just, it bums me out that this movie. I think really does fail on a screenplay level, which is wild to me that this got a Writers Guild nomination. And I understand that the Writers Guild is often dealing with like a depleted, you know, field of possible nominees. But it lost to everything everywhere all at once, as everything did that year. Also nominated were the Fableman's. Good movie. Tar, good movie. Great movie. Nope. Great movie. So the menu kind of does stick out.

It's funny to me that, like, I really did walk out of this movie the first time being like, I liked that movie. It was good. And now I'm like, almost everything about it really annoyed me. Okay, so when I, on my rewatch, I scrolled through Letterbox and I was like, oh, way more people dislike this movie than I had remembered. I thought most people were like, yeah, that was a fun time. I think people who enjoy this movie had a fun time with their first watch of it. And I would guess because you saw it in a TIF crowd, it was probably a fun crowd. Well, it was one of those, it was in the IMAX room.

So it's sometimes tough when you watch a movie that's not an IMAXy movie in the IMAX room. It's sort of tough to get a reaction because the whole thing so sort of diffuse. But I think just sort of talking to people, I think the immediate reaction was positive. And I sort of, you know, was like, yeah, definitely. And then I moved on. The other thing is you move on to your next screening and you don't really linger on some of these movies as long as you can later on in the year. So the menu is a Searchlight movie dropped in the middle of awards season. that would give it

some heat and some buzz just on its face, regardless of the movie. But I think the the, like, this is very pre-production like this had Oscar buzz type of movie because this was originally announced as an Alexander Payne movie with Emma Stone.

And... It's a different movie. It's a real different movie. I mean, like, you watch this movie and it's like, well, why did those two people want to make this movie? Alexander Payne, though, is another filmmaker. And I love like Alexander Payne quite a bit. But Alexander Payne is another filmmaker who enters his movies with a few different types of people he wants to kind of bash, right? In Nebraska, it's sort of

like small town jerks. And in election, it's tryhards. And in the descendants, it's women. But, and I wonder if then maybe a lot of my problems with the menu where it's just sort of like it's a movie about just punching easy targets and it's not punching down because obviously everybody in this movie is wealthy, but it sort of like uses that wealth as like carte wants to just sort of be like, here are some annoying people I don't like in this world. And we're just going to sort of spend the movie beating them up. And but I don't know. Yeah, I don't think it would be a fit. And I don't think Margo is a well-enough written, not to say that it's like fine for one actor and not fine for another, but even Emma Stone at the point in her career where she was at, why this material. Maybe she just wanted to work with Alexander Payne,

and it's like Ray Fine sticks around with the movie even after Alexander Payne leaves, but. Yeah, I mean, I could see Emma Stone, you know, in this role. I think it's a, it's one of those, it, I imagine on the page, you, you know, could sort of see where some of these scenes, I think that, you know, the, the cheeseburger monologue is something you could really do something with. And I don't think, and again, I don't think this movie is an Anya Taylor Joy for failing. I do feel like this, the, the script ultimately fails. But I do think that there are probably certain. elements of it. Again, I imagine this script really sells in a room, you know? Yeah. I see that. Also, Will Tracy will be working with Emma Stone because he wrote the next Yorgos Lanthemos movie. There we go. Interesting. Interesting. What is it called? It's called something. Bagonia. Which sounds like another fake title, like Kinds of Kindness is

kind. Wasn't that the name of that one, the Top Chef International Year? Wasn't there a woman called Bagonia. I feel like that was. I want to hear Padmolakshmi and now Chef Kristen say Bagonia. Bagonia times. I want to go back. We didn't talk enough about how Chef Kristen really slayed that terrible season of Top Chef. I didn't watch the season.

I felt too far behind. It was a very bad and very badly produced season, but she was innocent. I have a problem where I fall too far behind a season and then I got to catch up, which is why this weekend I have to very, very much. make a point of catching up on only murders in the building and a great British baking show because I've heard good things about both, and I like both of those shows, and I don't want to... I'm going to need a really, really, really, really loud core group of people to tell me to get back on to GBBO.

I've heard nothing but great things. I've heard nothing but great things about this season, I will say that, so it might be worth checking out. I know there's a divo we love, but there's always a divo. we love every season of bake-off. So, like... All right. I've also heard great things that just like Allison's really come into her own as a host. Oh, I thought she was fabulous. I thought she was the best season of last season. The best thing of last season. Yeah.

Anyway, I want to... I think we maybe exited the eat the rich thing a little bit too premature because I do feel like that was a huge part of the reason why the menu was in the awards conversation is because this was such a trend. in 2022, and I think it was one that had been getting built to. Obviously, Parasite is a major, you know, that's a major part of that movie's appeal, is this idea that, you know, this awful rich family that, like, you know, you get this setup of this sort of disgusting wealth inequality, and that the payoff of it is something sort of bloody. unsatisfying. And I think Knives Out is a movie that has a lot of fun with that final shot of, you know, my house, my rules, and Anadarmus has gotten one over on this awful family.

And I think it's one of, it's, you know, it's a, it's a temperature check on the culture at the moment, right? Which is obviously, you know, wealth inequality is at its most, you know, extreme that it's ever been, and we've gone through, we had gone through at that point to presidential primaries of Bernie Sanders, like, centering that particular aspect of American culture. Like, it's definitely very forefront of people's minds. And obviously, it's not just an American thing, but a global thing. And so in 2022, you have Glass Onion, which sort of takes aim at this tech bro type, but also a lot of these sort of like, you know, idle rich can go escape on an island and have a COVID-free, you know, weekend to themselves.

Triangle of Sadness, which is a movie about, you know, wealthy people on a cruise who devolve into shit-scurrying monsters when things go bad. And then the menu. What did you sort of, and there was a lot of, I think, attempts to sort of take in those three movies as a, as a continuum. I know our friend Richard Lawson wrote something. I thought very good about that for Vanity Fair at the time. But obviously, Triangle of Sadness is the one that sort of gets the Oscar approval. And I think it's the best of those three, though I still have limitations with that movie.

I wish one of these movies was a real slam dunk in this way about these themes because I think, you know, the thing holding Triangle of Sadness about is like, it's all, it's about that, but it's also about like three or four other things that it doesn't necessarily connect. Now that you are on the Harris Dickinson train after Baby Girl, are you going to go back and revisit Triangle of Sadness? I mean, Triangle of Sadness is even a movie that I don't. think entirely works, but I think is largely successful and fine. I do have a lot of fun with it when I'm not like, okay, let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving. But I don't ever think about him in that movie. But I'm saying maybe now you'll go back and have a little bit more of an appreciation for him now that you... Yeah, but I think Baby Girl is also the first time that he's really been given something to do, like, in terms of a character with a psychology. I'm not going to win. I'm not going to win this one. You are very big on winning. You are very big on winning, on being right, and I'm very big on being indolently standing where I stand. I like being an implacable object. I think he's quite good in that movie. And I always thought he was quite

good than that movie, and I think he's quite good. People also love him in Beach Rats. I think that's not a good movie. I don't, I'm not a Beach Rats person. I'm a Iron Claw person. I think he's great in the Iron Claw. No, I'm not a particular Beach Rats person, actually. I was not the giantist fan of that. I'm not, uh, that movie, that is a movie that asks you to project so much onto a nothing character. Yeah. And that's why I have a problem with it. I mean, I don't Love that director's films in... Yeah, I... Certainly less than the culture, the film critic culture.

I think that's my hesitation with a lot of her movies, is that I do think you are asked to project a lot of things onto characters rather than witness a character, you know, a fully fleshed character. Sticking with the sort of Oscars of that year, this is the year that Hong Chao finally gets her first Oscar nomination. Yay! but for the whale. Boo. It would have been, at the time, I was like, no, she doesn't need an Oscar nomination for the menu.

Because people were like, why wasn't she nominated for the menu instead? And I was still like, no. But on this rewatch, I'm like, yes, I think I would have stood there. It's a very, it's a very unlikely character to get an Oscar nomination because, like, in terms of the ecosystem of the movie, she very much operates from the sidelines. but it's such an effective performance. And my thing was, if you are hell-bent on getting Hong Chow nomination, which good for you, make it for the menu. Because even at the time, even among people who hated the whale, there was the sense of, well, Hong Chow's at least really good. And I'm like, I don't think she's as good in that movie to allow her performance to transcend the giant pile of,

of mean, nasty shit that that movie was. Hateful and talking out of both sides of its mouth and hypocritical shit. Yeah. But also, if you're going to nominate her... Okay, so let's say she's the best thing about two bad movies. Which best thing about a bad movie performance are you actually going to be interested in even talking about? It's this performance. It's this one.

It's not the whale performance. Like... Well, can I also say, and I think this movie didn't show. up until the following year anyway. But this was also the year that showing up played festivals. God, she's so good. And she's even better in showing up. I fucking love her in that movie.

She's, again, she's so good at playing these characters who just like snipe from the margins. But in the most kind of incredible ways, I think one of the things, she was that way in inherent vice, I even thought. And I don't like that movie at all. She's that way in kinds of kindness, a good movie that she is great in. You need to kind of, I, you like that movie more than I do, but I really want you to sort of bang the drum for that movie as we get into award season because it is being foregotten. I would love to be able to write about that movie, but I think everybody has too much moved on that I could not get a pitch picked up talking about that movie. Everyone's moved on from that movie.

She's, she has this quality, and it shows up to when she's on TV, she was on home. coming. She was on Watchmen. She was in an episode of Poker Face. She's apparently on that show, The Night Agent, that I haven't watched, but apparently that's coming back for a second season. She just has this quality of she knows much more than she's letting you know she knows. You know what I mean?

And it's and she has a gift with line delivery. I don't know. It's just, she's super excited. She also never appears on screen like anything less than a fully fleshed human being as whatever character. She's really worked out who she's playing. Yeah, she's never not a complete character, regardless of her screen time, regardless of how well written the character is or isn't, i.e. the whale. Yeah.

She's truly just one of the greats. I think if we got her in a star vehicle of some kind, we would not be able to handle it. The sun would collapse, the stars would explode, and it would be the movie event of the century. It's true. It's true. All right. I want to sort of go through. Oh, I'm surprised I didn't mention this at the beginning.

this movie gives me Willy Wonka vibes at times, especially at the beginning. Like it's evil Willy Wonka? Well, evil or Willy Wonka. I do feel like Willy Wonka is a like low-key evil character. Honestly, maybe Willy Wonka is the format that makes this movie work. You're like picking off each of these guests one by one, you know, and you get to the end. And, you know, Nicholas Holt gets to be like, I am Charlie Bucket. I am the chosen one.

And it's like, nope, you're going to die too. This is, it's, it's darker Willy Wonka, because I do feel like there's a reading of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, which is, um, this, you know, fabulously successful and wealthy chocolatier has grown so curdled by his own customers and enthusiasts that he decides to, in one last hurrah, gather a, you know, know, five of them to him and then discard the ones he finds odious for various reasons and end up with the one acceptable person to pass on his chocolate factory too before he fucks off for eternity. It's not dissimilar to the menu, except in the menu he has no

intention of leaving his culinary empire to anybody. I guess Anya Taylor Joy is the Charlie Bucket because she's the realist. I think that's the, that's the, you know, through line, but it's not like, you know, again. She's also the one non-willing participant. Well, right, exactly. Leguizamo, with his dumb movie. You are why the mystery has been drained from our art. a very like

frustrated artist complaint from like I don't feel like the people who made this movie are coming from that position in their careers. They're all too young. I feel like to be to be taking this position. I don't know. What were your sort of final thought? I guess my final thought on this movie

and like this is maybe something we don't really have anymore especially as we have like tent poles released in January. I think temporally you know, the the like this movie gives February release and I think you

understand what I mean by that. You know, like we have this concept of January movies where like January is a dumping ground where they just put all of the shit, you know? And this this feels like not crap but you know, a movie that gives minimal push.

As I've gotten older. February. As I've gotten older, I have become much more of a, you know how politicians will talk about how they have a 50 state strategy to win, you know, everywhere. I have become a 12-month-a-year moviegoer, which is to say that I feel like every month has a type of movie that I think can succeed there. You know what I mean? And I think even in January, there are certain movies. where I'm like, that would be a great January movie. I think Meg three in... I just feel like it doesn't exist anymore, like the conventions of, like, the idea of what a January movie is anymore, because we've had so many things like you're saying that it's like, oh, well, this movie would kick ass in January. Like the Bob Marley movie that just got released this January and made almost $100 million.

And nobody's saying that it's a piece of shit, but... No, people like... They made a ton of money in January. I think Meg Thregan is a perfect January movie. I don't remember when it got released, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. And I think those movies have also become early, like, first weekend of September movies. This, remember when, like, the AI, Afray-Eyed and the front room both got released? No one talked about Afray-A-I.

Nobody, like, I literally went to Toronto, and when I came back from Toronto, Afray-eyed was out of theaters. And I'm like, that trailer looked so dumb-slash hilarious that, like, I'm so mad that nobody else went and saw it. Well, it's because every, like, they've eventized every single weekend of the year. But also, I think we as a culture have, because of things like social media, get the word out on, like, this movie that no one's talking about is good. Go see it.

by the way, we are in February. I had a whole conversation slash debate in Vulture Slack this past week about how annoyed I am that already there are Megalopolis

screenings where people are like yelling back to the screen and, you know, laughing. It's so fucking annoying. Of course it's all dude bros doing it too. And it's like, okay, I understand you think you can Rocky Horror this movie. I also think that that's a better movie than that, and you are all just being...

I don't even care about that part of it. To me, it's just like it's the astroturfiness of it. It's the, I'm going to fake a kind of grassroots cult experience for this movie so that I can feel better about why I'm going to watch this movie. I felt the same way, I'm sorry, about the cat's rowdy screenings, which I thought were very astro-turphy after a certain point. where all of a sudden people were, like, going in for the first time and, like, knowing when to, like, yell back at the screen certain things. And it's like, you cannot fake your way into a rocky horror picture show experience. It, to me... Kat's rowdy screenings felt way more organic to me than this.

This feels sweaty. This feels like edge-lordy. I don't like it. I find, I think it's similar. I think there's a way to go into Megalopolis and not take it so seriously without being like, I'm going to go into Megalopolis. I was very happy that, like, my screening of it, I was worried that it was going to be just people like laughing at every single thing. And it wasn't. I think my screening of that movie sort of arrived at that feeling like this movie's insane at our own schedule.

And I'm like, that was, I was happy with that. that. I was satisfied with that. I just think sometimes I think people try and force, they want to force a moment. They want to force a social media. I think social media is completely to blame for all this. Well, that's the thing about Megalopolis that I don't think was true. I think Katz was like maybe aided by social media, but people are doing this for Megalopolis for likes and it's stupid. I see, I think maybe the first few weeks of Katz Rowdy screenings were genuine by the time I got to it. People, were, like, working off of a script, and I found it to be deeply, deeply annoying. Or, like, laughing at, like, laughing at any time a cat sang. And it's like, you're seeing, it's, you're seeing cats. At some point, like, not everything. How many of those people were also drunk people?

Well, of course they were drunk people. That's half the thing with these things. They go and they get wasted and then they go and, like, they, you know, they go to a rowdy screening or whatever. And it's like, I don't know, I find it all to be a little too. to, I guess this is my watchword for the day. It's a little too smug, a little too self-satisfied, a little too I have found a way to make this movie experience about me. And... Don't turn me into one of those. Turn your fucking phones off at your movie. But turn your fucking phones off at your movie.

Because that's where I'm like, you're just doing this for likes. Turn your fucking phones up. All of the Megalopolis videos I've seen, I'm like, you straight bro idiots, just want to get likes on. You just want to get TikTok followers. Don't make me figure out how to create an EMP and just set off an EMP inside a movie theater every time I go in there because I'll figure it out.

I don't want to, I don't want to learn things. Don't make me learn things. Don't make me go figure out how to create this fucking thing. To put a button on the episode, what are we watching for Halloween? Oh, okay. Let me bring up. What have you been watching? Give us the update. So after the menu last night, I watched Eli Roth's Thanksgiving, which is streaming on, um, uh... I was. I liked the attempt to sort of just like do a slasher, do, you know, a costumed slasher again.

Um, I called who the killer was very early on, which is not a detriment to a movie. I often, you know, I like winning as much as, you know, anybody. So I was glad that I was able to call that very early on. I feel very grandpa, like, yelling at a cloud about this, but, like, we used to have teen actors. I feel like the teen actors in movies like this or, like, it's what's inside. Did you see it's what's inside? No, but everybody seems to not like it. I saw a couple of people who liked it, which is why I watched it.

I think the castes of, like, this is why we. need the, we needed the WB. You know what I mean? This was a farm system for getting all of these people and like fucking teaching them how to act. And I think they all just are, are very bland and blazze in this movie. But I will say, Thanksgiving had some good scares, some good kills. It's lit far too brightly.

It's not, it was not a Netflix movie, even though it is now currently streaming there. It was a theatrically released movie, but it is lit in the same way that people complain about that Netflix movies, which is just like entirely too brightly. There's no atmosphere here. But in general, all of that to say, I mostly liked it. I saw at your recommendation, Kiyoshi Kurosawa's cure, which I found to be very creepy and very spooky and not quite the like terrified. that I was, uh, you know, I can't say terrifier anymore, I guess. Um, not quite, yeah, you've bought her mind-hoffed those movies into my life, by the way, where I didn't know about them at all. And then you, I would have heard about them, certainly by now, because everybody's talking about them. But like, I had not heard about those movies at all. And then you mentioned them to me. They're just not real movies. Anyway, um, but so I think I was a slightly oversold on cure, not to, like, blame you for it because like other people also

you talked up that movie. Um, It's heady, you know, like, it's a heady scary. Definitely. And like it's creepy. And maybe the way that we who have overdone it on that movie are not selling it that way. It's filmed so well. Like it looks like talk about a movie that is like, you know, lit incredibly and and sort of uses atmospheric to its advantage. I saw Dr. Giggles for the first time, which is so fucking dumb.

And I would, I gave it a one star and a heart, which is sort of, you know, what I think it deserves. Exactly. Exactly. I think it's a much better movie, not to like, not me script doctoring the 1990 film Dr. Giggles, but like, if that movie had any sense of the way to pace its kills, it would have been so good. But, like, all of those kills have absolutely no build to them or, like, too much build to them. There's just, like, there's no sense of it. I watched vamp the other night, which was the 1980. somewhat horror comedy

where Grace Jones plays a vampire if you've ever seen that shot of her in the like red clown wig with the white face paint that's from this movie from vamp there's not as much vampire Grace Jones ultimately as I want it to be but like I've seen worse

80s comedies about like frat guys getting into trouble and like this one's a little bit charming and D.D. Pfeiffer plays the like female lead and she's like genuinely charming. So that was cute. What have you been watching? So I've accidentally stumbled into doing a bunch of Stephen King and I am just like I'm putting the stop. Like you mentioned me watching it, I'm putting the stop on it. It was accidental and it's not largely satisfying, including watching the lawnmower man. And I was like, oh, this was not as can't be fun as I thought it would be. This is really

boring. Nobody likes the lawnmower man. But I rewatch misery, great movie. Watch Christine for the first time. I just think I'm a carpenter guy. Like, I realize I am a John Carpenter person. I'm definitely going to be watching Prince of Darkness, but I just like, and it just likes movies. Yeah. I saw We Live in Time, which is basically a body horror movie.

Oh, no. I think about that movie, the less I like it. Yeah. Two, I watched House on Haunted Hill last night, which... Vincent Price one. All Vincent Price movies are about how. how a gay guy tries to kill people through Lisp and it's great.

There are no bad Vincent Price movies. And the two that I would really recommend, one of which I threw on knowing nothing about it and this is not the way to watch the movie because it was harrowing. The entity, because it is on the channel in like their horror visual effects. What is the entity?

It's like the logo is just like Barbara Hershey with green lights on her face. And I was like, oh, Barbara Hershey, I'm in. I don't know what this is. I would love to have a nice little horror surprise. It is about a supernatural entity that repeatedly is sexually assaulting this woman in the night. And it is about that, like, period.

And it's like, you know, it is ultimately a satire on rape culture. Not the movie, I would say, go in blind about because it doesn't really pull it. any punches about that. And it's very harrowing. But Barbara Hershey is great. It's a good horror movie. And then one, I really did not expect to have this earnest of a recommendation for.

I watched Seed of Chucky. Oh, okay. Which is like I'd heard like kind of jokes about it. Jumping right past Bride and into Seed, okay. Oh, well, I've watched Bride recently. Okay. Love Bride of Chucky. um seed of chucky you know we'd see i'd seen the memes of the one doll and i guess i'd thought that it was

on the tv show or whatever seed of chucky is a deeply queer very funny you've entered the realm of chucky as our queerest uh property but like no explicitly so in this movie it's kind of all over the place you know jennifer tilly has like her own movie that she's basically in for the rest of this, but like the Chucky parts of it, the titular seed of Chucky, if I can get folks to get into it. And it's like, it is a Chucky movie. Know that you're going into something that is all with a wink, but I think is ultimately very affirming. The seed of Chucky is an intersex child. And there is a lot to deal with gender fluidity in a way that I was absolutely unprepared for. Had you not heard this whole thing about?

about Chucky having an intersex child? Maybe that's the type of thing. You see a tweet and you think it's just one of those things where people are being facetious and joking. It's literally like the whole like arc of the Chucky franchise has like been going off of that. And I just have not absorbed any of it. So like this movie was a nice surprise, but it was a lot of fun. Like John Waters shows up. It's definitely trying to aim for that type of John Watersy winkingness.

though, of course, not getting there. I haven't watched the TV show, but the TV show, every time I hear something about the TV show, I'm like, they're doing that on a TV show, like, it's wild. Like, the one episode I saw. I do want to watch the show. Sutton Stroke shows up because she's IRL best friends with Jennifer Tilly, and Jennifer Tilly is a character in, obviously, the Chucky TV show. So, it's...

I mean, maybe I just sound really stupid because I had... No, I just think it's just like... People seriously or thought that, or I wasn't paying enough attention to know that this is the text of this movie. Yeah. I had a great time. Good. I'm glad. Get your queer horror on.

One last thing about the menu, I want to say, is that it did win, Ray Fines did win the award at the Critics Choice Super Awards, which is critics' choices sop to, it's halfway Oscar's cheer moment and halfway Saturn Awards. And sometimes, sometimes I want to, like, give it credit for, like, yes, like, good for you for recognizing genre. But also, it's mostly just a SOP to get, like, superhero movies in there. But this particular category, at least got a nomination for Justin Long for Barbarian, which at least somebody nominated him for something at that movie. Because he's so good in that movie. And going to be real excited for the next movie from that director. Yeah. Do we know what that's going to be yet?

They filmed it. I don't think it's coming out for like another year. Interesting. This movie also, by the way, the menu got seven Columbus Film Critics Association nominations. Care to comment? Do not look at me. Do not look at me. Do not look at me. Over the express protest of Chris File.

All right. Are you ready to play the IMDB game? Yes. All right. Explain to our listeners what the IMD game is. Every episode, we end with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of these titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining

titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Sure does. That's the IMDB game. Chris, would you like to give your clue or guess first? Uh, we'll be expeditious. I will give first. Go for it. So I mentioned that this was originally going to be made by Alexander Payne. That did not happen, but his original leading lady was Emma Starn. Imestern. Have we never done Emistone or just a long time ago did Emma Stone? Double digits since we've done Imestown.

Very good. All right. So quite possible that this has updated. I'm going to say Lollaland. Lillaland is correct. I'm going to say the favorite. Incorrect. I'm going to say zombie land.

Also incorrect. No zombie land. Your years are 2010, 2011, and 2023. Okay. I'm going to guess them all in a row and you tell me if I'm right. Is this Easy A, crazy, stupid love, poor things? EasyA and poor things are correct. Okay.

2011 remains on the board okay so not crazy oh it's the help doy it is crazy that the help it is of course stays on her known for yes the help though shows up on these things the degree to which we talk about the help maybe the help is still on like cable TV I don't know but the degree to which we talk about the help which we don't talk about the help anymore we definitely don't talk about Emma Stone being first build in the hell. Is she first built? That's interesting. There's Viola Davis first built. Viola Davis is probably

first built because she would have been an Oscar nominee prior to this. Yeah, but only for doubt, only in supporting. Yeah, and I guess Zombiland was a big hit, so... Yeah. Well, anyway, I should have done better on that. Sometimes the ones with the big, big, famous, there's just too much to choose from. Whatever.

All right, for you, I went down the Mark Myelod route to Succession, and since we've done Brian Cox too recently, I decided to pivot and give you the currently Oscar buzzed Jeremy Strong. Ah, Jeremy. No television. Yeah, so Succession's not there. Is it too early for me to re-watch succession? No, it's not. Do it.

Enjoy your, live your best life. Watch as much succession as you want to. It's so good. Great. Okay. So these are all going to not be big roles. Is Molly's game on there? Weirdly, no, even though he is great.

A significant role. Yeah. This is going to be impossible. Isn't he in Lincoln? Lincoln. Is he in Lincoln? It's not Lincoln, but I bet you he is in Lincoln. He is in Lincoln. Yeah, just throw a dart at the wall and someone. Okay. So your years are 2014, 2015, 2019, and 2020. Okay. So succession is happening at some of this time. 2020. What was he in in 2020? I still don't think it was a lead. 2019 and 2020. So. I guess this is also just as Succession is getting popular.

Like, Succession didn't get popular until lockdown. Right. Except some people were on that train before lockdown. You were ground level, baby. Um, 2020. Is this an Oscar movie? Uh, it is, in fact, there are two on this list. Oh, it's a trial of Chicago 7.

It's trial of Chicago 7. I was going to say there are two Best Picture nominees on this list. There is one movie that is an Oscar. nominee in a different category, and there is one that is not an Oscar nominee whatsoever. Is 2019 a Best Picture nominee? No, that is the one that is not an Oscar nominee whatsoever. Although if you asked my dad, he would say it was one of the top ten movies of that year, for sure.

Great. So this is some type of drama that I'm guessing made money. I don't know about that actually Oh interesting But would have someone like Jeremy Strong Has dad appeal May have to put a button in this No Oscar nomination whatsoever

It worldwide made 115 million but most of that was overseas Overseas Is this a British film? It sure is is it Victoria and Abdul? No, you're going in the wrong temper. Oh, the gentleman.

It is the gentleman. My dad fucking loved the gentleman. He is one, two, three, four, fifth build in the gentleman. Would you like to guess the with and the and on the gentleman? Actually, don't. I should use that as a trivia question at one point. Well, guess it. We've already gotten that.

far. Um, is Matthew McConaughey the ant? No, Matthew McConaughey is first built. Okay. Tells you how much I know about the gentleman. I've still never seen it. Um, the, I don't know. I'm guessing the width is a lady.

No. And the and is a British man. There is only, the end is a British man. There's only one lady. It goes, Matthew McConaughey, Charlie Hunnam, Henry Golding, Michelle Dockery, Jeremy Strong, Eddie Marsan. with Colin Farrell and Hugh Grant. Great.

So there we go. I'm guessing they both die, and that's why they get the with-in. It's very possible. It's very possible. Okay, so what are my years again? 2014 and what? Your years are 2014 and 2015.

One of them is a Best Picture winner, one of them, or not winner, Best Picture nominee, and one of them is an Oscar nominee in a different category. 2014 and what? 2015. Okay.

So 2014. Is he in Birdman? No, not Birdman. Hmm. The Martian. No. Although it is a movie with like a big, it's a movie with a big cast full of mostly met.

Okay. Not the Revenant. He's not in that. No. Bigger cast full of men. Okay. they're both contemporary Oh the big short

The big short Yep Yep Okay so the 2014 movie that is an Oscar nominee In some way Above the line Above the line

Above the line So we're talking screenplay We're talking actors We're talking director and picture But you would say If it was a best picture nominee So it's something that has One of those nominations

But not Correct So what movies are we talking about we're talking about still Alice we're talking about well that's a winner this is the first thing I ever noticed him in I will say that

okay he's not a major character but he like has a presence yes he has a presence this is an Oscar nominee in a way somewhat infamously

Oh, like a nomination we don't like or like a big stat. Okay, so I'm guessing this is for a person we don't like. We like this person, but it's this nomination, it's just sort of like, oh boy, oh, Academy. Can't believe, can't believe you. Is it like a supporting actor nomination? Okay, so supporting actor that year we have, um, Um, it's not, no, it's after Django Unchained, but supporting actor, it's whoever won, why can't I remember who won, Edward Norton, already know it's not Birdman, uh, Christian Bale, no, that's the next year. That's the next year.

No one from spot, well, no, Ruffalo's in Spotlight, but that's the best picture winner. That's the next year. Oh, God. Why am I doing so poorly at distinguishing 24? Because there's nothing interesting about 2014. The only thing interesting about 2014 is Julianne wins. Right. Very boring year.

Who else was supporting actor nominated for something that wasn't best picture nominated? Like, I genuinely can't remember all five. of the nominees. And I'm looking at one of them right now. It's not the winner, which, who was the winner? J.K. Simmons was the winner. J.K. Simmons, that's right. J.K. Simmons, Edward Norton, and who are those other three people? Well, Christian Bale. So there's two people that I can't remember.

Not Christian Bale. Christian Bale is the next year. That's, God damn. sorry I need to try to think of best picture nominees because that'll one of those two has to be a best picture nominee no this movie is not a best picture nominee but the other

the other one I need to narrow down and that might help me get to this movie okay best picture was in 2014 Birdman What else? Well, what was the other big

contender for against Birdman? Remember, it was these two movies sort of head to head? Oh, nope. One of the other ones was not a Best Picture nominee. It was Ruffalo for Foxcatcher. Yes. Which doesn't help me get there.

Okay. That was the one I couldn't remember. That was the one I had to like look up. Which is wild, because that should have been the winner period. Yeah, he was great. Yeah, he was great. That is my favorite. No, what was the big competitor with Birdman that year? It was...

What was it? Is that this movie? No, it's the movie of the... It's the other nominee who you say might be able to help you think of. No, all right, to get you to what this movie that Jeremy Strong is in is. it's a movie that has a bunch of Oscar nominees in the cast.

It is a... Trambo. No, that's not a sporting actor nominee. It's sort of a... It's a hokey premise of... I'm not going to give you the premise because then you'll get it right away. Is it the town?

No, but you have the right titular structure. The blank. Yeah. Oh, it's the judge. The judge. Do you remember who you're in the... Which I have never seen. Oh, okay. Jeremy Strong plays Robert Downey Jr.'s mentally disabled in some way, brother.

Not in that way. It's just like, it's not like simple Jack or whatever, but it's like he's just like he's maybe on the spectrum. He's maybe got brain damage. It's just sort of like he's, you know, developmentally. is it like the pony kicked him here what is that from that's light in the piazza because clara is not necessarily disabled she just got kicked in the head by a pony it's it's very vaguely determined but he's just sort of like he's the he's the innocent you know what i mean he's the sort of like he's the innocent in some way it's not it's nothing quite so dramatic um it's nothing cancelable for poor jeremy but you know he put his all in into creating that character.

I believe it. I believe it. All right. Okay. That's got to be our episode. We are over our limit. If you would like more that's had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this hadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz,

our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the list? listeners find more of you. Twitter and Letterbox at Chris V-File, that's F-E-I-L. Yeah, I'm on the socials as well at Joe Reed,

read-spelled R-E-I-D. I am also hosting a podcast called me, myself, and I, where I am going film-by-film through the career of the woman who brought Elizabeth Sparkle to glorious, horrible life, Miss Demi Moore.

The podcast is available exclusively on Patreon. Chris File was a esteemed guest very recently with our episode on a movie we all all remember very closely and fondly, wisdom, of course, the great... Wisdom.

Wisdom. If you would like to hear Chris and I talk about that particular movie and a bunch of other fantastic episodes, you can and should, go subscribe at patreon.com slash de me pod. Go do it. The heavy hitters are about to arrive. We are hitting her peak. We're about to hit Peak Demi. It's going to be great.

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