This Had Oscar Buzz - 318 – My Policeman (with Katey Rich!)

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

As is our Thanksgiving week tradition, The Ankler’s Katey Rich returns to talk about another film with indistinguishable young actors. In 2022, fans and awards prognosticators were hyped for Harry Styles to make the leap to movies and leading man stardom. Amidst the gossip for Don’t Worry Darling, literary adaptation My Policeman loomed, with Styles cast as a … Continue reading "318 – My Policeman (with Katey Rich!)"

Cold open. I really can't stay. Oh, no. What? It's cold outside? Oh, you mean a different cold. Yes, a different cold open. A burst of energy as we deliver the results for this weekend's movie Fantasy League numbers.

A big weekend in the movie Fantasy League, especially if you have drafted either Wicked or Gladiator. I refuse to use the portmanteau. Not everything can be a Barbenheimer. those words fit together very well. Wicked and Gladiator don't. So I refuse to say Glicked or Glickid. What if it's like the cheap VOD that's trying to cash in on old people who don't understand that this is a fake movie, not the real movie that's playing in theaters?

And it was just a movie called Wicked Gladiator. I mean, I'd watch a movie called Wicked Gladiator. It's Wicked Gladiator. Listen, no one mourns the Wicked, we celebrate them. Okay. With our buying dollars. Is no one mourns the Wicked on your list of good songs from Wicked? Kind of no, right?

Kind of no. It's kind of no. It's fine if you say no. I'm not going to yell at you. I'm a sentimental man. You know, it's not that bad, but it's, you know. I think there are only like five at most good songs from Wicked. The thing is, is they're all kind of really good.

And they are like total earworms. you go defying gravity wizard and I for good I do as long as you're mine I was going to say as long as you're mine I've seen some I've seen some slander here's the thing you better stop with your slander of as long as your mind because it's kind of the only thing you have to hold on to

in part two for the majority of the movie That's probably when we're going to get an original song I think so too but I'm not really having a ton of faith in the original song to be like good So I still feel like if you're if you're pooh-pooing as long as you're mine Then you're basically like twiddling your thumbs through the entirety of part two to get to for good Because like otherwise I don't know man I just don't know Anyway all that to be said

Do the gladiator twinks sing as long as your mind to each other I'm still at the point of not seeing either movie To drag those gladiator twinks to Marie's crisis and just sort of Set him up at the piano and Watch them go to town. I bet you we would have a time and a half on the town. Those two twinks and their monkey. You will know what that means when you see Gladiator 2.

I want to be the monkey to two. Well, no, I don't want to be around. Joe, we're not just talking the long-awaited hefty box office points this week. We also have awards points on the board because we got those movies for grown-up nominees this week. Yes. So let's first things first. Let's give a quick little rundown of what the box. box office delivered this weekend. Wicked pulled in 114 million domestic, good enough by a healthy

margin for number one. As good as Gladiator did in second place, it got it got lapped by Wicked by Wicked in first place. So $114 million, if you drafted Wicked, you're looking pretty good. You're looking pretty set. And Wicked is looking like a better Oscar play than it did when I originally priced these. So I have a feeling Wicked is going to end up looking like a bargain by the end of this season, because I don't think I priced it as a box office and awards

contender the way I think it's now maybe going to be. On the flip side, I think I did price Gladiator that way, and I think maybe Gladiator is going to be a little bit less, although I still think Denzel Washington is talk about dancing through life, dancing all the way

to an Oscar nomination and maybe more for for his part in Gladiator, too. And I think benefiting from, at least currently, being in the position that nobody's really excited by other supporting actor opportunities, you know? It's true. Even somebody like Guy Pearce, a lot of people haven't seen The Brutalist yet, if you haven't seen it in a, you know, festival. And it's tough to, like, wrap your arms around that role until you've seen the movie. You know what I mean?

I believe he is also currently filming, too, so it's not like he's out on the circuit yet. Hopefully he will be because I think that's the type of thing, given that he's never been nominated before, that if he can't make it out onto the circuit because he's working, you can see that not happen. How far do you think Guy Pearce's fame goes into the mainstream? How deep do you have to go into, or can you go into the mainstream before people, you encounter people who don't know him by name? I think there's a decent amount of that. I think you probably have to be like, Guy Pearce, you know, he was X in X movie. And then people go, oh, yeah.

I think it's like two or three concentric circles before people are like, oh, memento. Hey, look, it's memento. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. Anyway, Gladiator 2 pulls in $55.5 million for second place. You will not get first place box office points for Gladiator 2, which is kind of a shame. But you'll get bonus points through 50 million, and I do feel like those numbers will keep growing over the subsequent weeks. Elsewhere on the top 10, we don't have official numbers as of the moment we're recording this, but it looks like Best Christmas Pageant ever is going to clear $25 million probably this weekend, as Will Heretic.

and those are two very, very opposite movies in terms of expectation. I don't think really, I haven't seen a single TV spot for Best Christmas Pagent ever. I saw its trailer like once. I saw its trailer like seven times. See, we get very opposite trailer experiences. I'm fascinated by this. Heretic I saw that trailer eight agility times. And while I don't-

I think I saw Heretic's zero times in a theater. That's so wild. While I don't love that movie, I'm glad that Hugh Grant is having a, you know, A-24-sized success and good for him. I do think he's probably going to get a Golden Globe nomination for that movie because just recently I looked at how thin the Golden Globe comedy roster is for Best Actor and a Comedy. Are they officially pushing that movie in comedy? Yes. So, which I think is a smart idea because I do feel like he'll get that nomination. I also feel like, I wrote it down the other day where I was like, Glenn Powell is like locked in there, Hugh Grant's getting nominated.

Wait, I wrote this down somewhere. Hold on. You text it to the GC. I did. Oh, I think there's a better than average chance that Michael Keaton gets nominated for Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice in that category. I kind of think there's a better than average chance that you see Deadpool nominations. That's possible because it happened before. Ryan Reynolds was nominated for the first Deadpool. But I wonder if that's a little bit of old news. And if Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice is A more recent and B.

B, more of a surprise. And I think the surprise factor maybe works in there. Who knows? I also feel like what you call it, Jesse Eisenberg is kind of a lock for a nomination there, which is good for good things for if you drafted a real pain. You mentioned the Movies for Grown Awards, which we went into in-depth. Whole rundown over on the Patreon. Go check it out.

If you are not a member of the Patreon, that might be a good reason to go and join because we gave you a whole episode running down the AARP Movies for Grownups Dominations. Chris, why don't you give the listeners a top-line rundown of what the biggest points earners were for the- Listen, if you're a conclave drafter, you're very happy. It earned the most points of all nominees as the most nominated film six M4G nominations, including Best Movie for Grownups. Not surprisingly, not nominated in Best Movie for Catholics. They disbanded that category this year.

Complete Unknown, right behind. That's going to get you 30 points. A complete unknown, the first breakers of the embargo for, The movies for grownups, the breakers up the embargo. And then I guess, you know, when the movies for grownups have their say, the floodgates opened and... Oh, have you seen more people just letting loose with their... Yeah, I think they broke the social embargo for that. Good.

I mean, listen, I think it's a pretty good movie. I'm only seeing positive things. Yeah. So, and doing some interesting things. It's not just sort of Timmy Poptimism, which I didn't trust my reaction to the movie because I know that I've been dinged. for being overly optimistic on Timmy. You could say Gladiator 2 overperformed with the M4Gs, including the nomination for Connie Nielsen.

September 5 also did well, I believe, with the best movies for grown-up nomination as well. And then Amelia Perez, right behind. 20 points for Amelia Perez. So, yeah, good points for all of those movies with the M4Gs. Currently, without updating for the Wicked Gladiator weekend, So I imagine those points are going to throw the current status of the leaderboard into flux. So this is almost a snapshot of a world that will be gone by the time you listen to this.

But let's memorialize the fact that the paranoid king was once in first place for the movie Fantasy League with a roster that includes Venom, The Last Dance, Smile 2, and Anora, which right now are the magic three. you are, if you have those three movies, you are at the top of the leaderboard for right now, and it will change pretty much immediately. So, um, good job, The Paranoid King for doing well so far. Your moment in the sun. Kind of ditto with the Gary's League. First place currently in the Gary's League is LV426, who also has the golden three of Venom, The Last Dance, Smile 2, and Anora, plus getting some good conclave points. Um, But otherwise, the LV426's roster includes movies like Blitz, Baby Girl, the room next door, the Christopher Reeve documentary, all of which are sort of relying on awards points to come down the road. But for the moment, I imagine LV426 is about to get blown out the water by a bunch of people with Wicked on their roster.

LV426, I'm guessing this means they have 426 Louis Vuitton bag. That's one. They've been to Las Vegas 426 times. Wait, what was that? Oh, that's a you've got mail joke, right? They're trying to. The number of people who think he looks like a Clark Bar. That is the daddest of jokes. That's the daddest joke Tom Hanks has ever delivered on screen and I love it so much. Clark Bar is so my dad coded. I can't even tell you. Anyway. I meant sell that in regular, like, grocery stores. They only sell Clark bars in old-timey candy stores that are, like, novelty stores, you know. Do you ever remember Fifth Avenue bars? Yeah. Fifth Avenue bars, you would only ever get, you to get, like, one of them in your Halloween bag. And it was pretty good.

It was sort of like a less flavorful butterfinger was a Fifth Avenue bar. Not too bad. Anyway, can I tell you, I had a bite-sized butterfinger. this Halloween season, I got my hands on a fun-sized butterfinger. You know what's still a banger of a chocolate bar? A butterfinger, but honestly, it has to be a snack-sized butterfinger. A full-sized butterfinger is too much. It's a terrorist attack is a full-size butterfinger. Your mouth will not recover any time. This is why a Take-5 is the elite chocolate bar, though I don't know what they call it now. It's like Nutt. It's like Nutt-rageous re-sees something, but it's a take-five.

They still tell it. It's just not a take-five. Yeah. But it is the perfect candy bar. Patreon for our upcoming candy bar rankings, which we will... Don't put it past us. We do have a mailbag coming. All right. Anyway, you can check out the movie fantasy league at vulture.com slash movies-league, where you can check out the leaderboard. You can see what your team is doing.

You can check out what our points-giving categories are, what our prizes are, and we will be back next week with another update. Bye. Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melon Hack, Millen Hack and friends. Dick Poop This love is all consuming

I pity people who don't know what it feels like to be this in love come with me just you and I He's trying to destroy our marriage No hiding, no lies You know nothing about being married just Telling me what I'm supposed to think about it Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast with a getaway house in Martha's Vineyard.

Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz will be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Vile, and I'm here, as always, with the... The one who gave me all the clues, Joe Reed. Different policeman, Chris. That is a different policeman. Let me tell you, my whole watching of this movie, I kept thinking, Mr. Police, my Mr. Police.

One policeman with many faces. That's what we have. My snowman. Was this the same year as that, or was the snowman before that? Oh, no. The Snowman is like pre-COVID, I think. The snowman is... Oh, right.

My policeman is a lot later than I thought, too. The snowman is unencumbered by things such as time and place. No, Snowman's got to be like 2018 or something like that at least, right? It was released in 2017. You know, I haven't seen it yet. Oh, I still haven't. No. Like, they couldn't film all of the movie.

Like, there's scenes missing from it. But here's the thing about the Snowman. It doesn't make sense because I can't wait to watch it. There's no way that movie is ever going to live up to the, I gave you all the clues. Yeah, like how, like, how the, you know, the hue and cry over it when it got released that it was like the worst movie ever or whatever. Like, it's never going to live up to those expectations. So, like, I'm, you know, in no rush to see it.

Did Thomas Alfredson do something else? Yes. I say with a question mark. Also has a movie coming up, I think, right? Hold on. Great question. Hold on. I'll look that up.

This is a great stuff. Chris, Chris, you welcome our guest while I look this up. Listener, you know what time it is. It's the week of Thanksgiving. So who else is here but our great friend, Katie, Rich. Hello. Welcome. I love being a Thanksgiving tradition unlike any other.

Every year, we make the same joke. It's true. Well, listen, just like the Masters, you look good in green and you are... exclusive? I don't know. I don't know what else there is to say. I offer cheap Pimenta cheese sandwich. I have. You know what? Actually, a connection to today's topic. So my family goes to the Masters because they grew up very near there. So it is truly a tradition like any other. And my mom saw Harry Styles at the Augusta National this year. She's like stood right next to it. It all comes together. Doesn't know. You're not allowed to bring your phone in. So she

kind of like saw him and notice him and she looked at his tattoos. And then when she finally left, she Googled the tattoos. And there he was. Harry Styles of the Masters. That's fantastic. Identified. Literally as if a corpse identified by their tattoos. Harry Styles, that's fantastic. I can't remember when we locked this one in, except I feel like this was by your own

recommendation, Katie. You were like, well, we got to do. I think when this movie came to Toronto, you were like, well, that's got to be one of, like, when we can talk about this on a podcast, we got to do it. Like honkin, this had Oscar buzz sign flashing about it. It was one of those, like, by the time we left Toronto, we knew what the narrative on this. Like, the book had kind of been closed on this movie. It was dead by the time the festival was over.

It's one of the fastest flameouts, I think, of a TIF movie or a TIF premiere in recent memory. I mean, exception being the 2023 strike edition of TIF where basically everything we saw, we were like, well, I guess we're not going to talk about that one anymore. Right, right. But even that one had like, you know, diamonds in the rough and whatever. Sure. Sorry, I don't know what Knox goes away you're talking about. I have to tell our listeners, I am recovering from a cold, and I am at the frog voice stage of recovery.

It's not your emotional overwhelmness by my policeman. If I sound like RFK Jr., it is not an intentional impersonation. it is illness, and not the kind of illness that RFK Jr. has. I am also recovering from illness. Katie is making a much better show of herself than I am at this point. Once again, I got to go on antibiotics, which gave me superpowers. Hopefully RFK Jr. is not going to ban. Well, I was going to say, tell it to RFK Jr. before he bans all medicine.

You take my moxacin over my dead body. And listener, just so you know, I am also recovering. I am in two armcasts and two leg cats. I am recording this suspended from the ceiling. Well, aren't you just sitting in a wheelchair staring out at the choppy British ocean, unable to speak, but expressing deep longing for both me and Joe with your eyes? Exactly, exactly. Joe just came in and gave me my sponge bath.

Was this movie the year after Benedictian? a benediction was 2020 tiff i thought was it 2020 tiff yeah okay i thought it was 2021 for some reason but it could be wrong but anyway regardless it was in theaters in 2021 talk about a movie shockingly not among the benediction twinks talk talk about a movie that um did right by the exact same sort of frame story that my policeman sort of flails with which is The older gay man looks back on his life with regret. You know what I mean? And I don't know.

It's just it's done so well. And with such humor, actually, in benediction. And in this, it's just sort of. I think of my policeman next to another 2020-to-f movie, Amonite, which is sad British people by the ocean in which gay romance does not fix anything. Very much so. Very much so. I will get into this, but just like the absolute misery of British.

British beaches and how often it comes up in cinema and no one is ever happy at the beach in any British movie. I kept thinking of on Chesel Beach the whole time. This is very on Chesel Beach coated. It is very Aminite. Can we say, though, a previous Katie Rich guest episode about time has at least one happy scene on a British beach. But it's like the only one. It's cold. It's blustery. It's not like a It's cold, but they're having a good time. Yes. Yeah, because they have the best family in the world. Exactly. But like that's the one, like that's the one. It's the one. exception because you're totally right. Like, British beaches are just sad and cold. And they are there for walking. Doesn't that return to that beach later on in a state of sadness? I'm trying to remember.

I think probably, yes. I think that's like a happy memory to them becomes tinged with melancholy. I think you are right. Yes. Because again. No happiness in a British Beach. British Beach must return to its original state, which is a place for reflection and sad. And misery. Yes, exactly. I also felt like the movie that kind of hangs over this movie was broke back mountain because Emma Corrin every time that they're like staring off into the middle distance

you know just When I tell you I have a rant When I tell you I have a rant about that Say you don't go up there to fish Say you don't go up there to fish say you don't go up there to fish Like I'm going to go off on this whole trope At some point so

Okay also Did either of you see this at that TIF or had you seen this before? No. This was my first time watching it. Oh, wow. I didn't go to that Tiff. At the last minute, I couldn't make it. So I saw it at some point after it, probably on a screener. By at that point, it was like, well, the goose was cooked, but I had.

But I imagine if you were there, you would have been compelled to see it for the sort of Vanity Fair star angle of it, right? Well, we'll certainly talk about it. Like, at this point, like, we had Harry Stiles, like, fever. Like, literally, people went in. insane trying to figure out what Harry Styles was up to. Well, and Chris, you and I were there. Whether or not he was spitting on certain co-stars.

Was this also the one, Chris, where you had to write about the Taylor Swift movie? Was that the same tip? I assigned you to write about the Taylor Swift movie. I don't remember if it was that at that Tiff? I think it was. When she was there for her short film. Taylor Swift was like on the Friday when not a whole lot was going on. This premiered Sunday night.

And it was a madhouse. It was an absolute madhouse. Neither of you was there, but do you remember the chaos? No, but, like, you couldn't avoid it. Like, if you were seeing anything that night, you were sort of adjacent to the Harry Stiles, like, you know, mob in front of the Princess of Wales. I was in a fog of my own rage because I was seeing the whale at the school. Yeah, so 2022.

Yeah, so that would have been that same year. I didn't notice those crowds because I was so furious. I have to imagine this as a, you know, kind of like an evil step sister, to our experience at the premiere of queer this year where there's this room full of people being like, oh my God, this is going to be so exciting, it's going to be so transgressive. And then very slowly the air just gets led out of the balloon.

By the end, everyone just files out in silence. Although I don't necessarily remember people expecting my policeman to be good in the way I think people were expecting queer to be good. They just wanted to see Harry Styles get naked, which, again, with the queer, you do get to see all of these people get naked. You do. At what cost? Well, you also go in expecting like a Luca Guadena movie and, you know, these sort of like, whereas this one, I'm not sure Michael Grandage got the same level of, you know, expectation.

No, this one had like, again, it had like the Ammonite stamp all over being like, ah, yes, sad British people in the 50s. I kind of get where I'm going here and you go, you go exactly there. And it's like, it's an Amazon Studios movie and like there's just like a whole lot of list of reasons for why there was like tempered expectations. And yet there was that little sliver of like, maybe he shows something in this movie, not like literally, although the Purian interest was there as well. But like maybe like there's a spark. You're welcome to wonder about these things. Right. But like maybe there's a spark in in this performance that shows that maybe he has something because we'll certainly get into the Harry Styles thing. I've never been a hater of Harry. I know sort of he's had, he's been sort of a lightning rod of a. figure for a long time, pretty much once you date Taylor Swift and then stop dating Taylor Swift, your existence becomes a referendum in some way or another on social spaces. So I've always kind of liked his music. I've always, like he did an SNL episode, and I thought he was pretty funny on that, you know, in multiple occasions. I will, you know, opine on his various, you know,

film work when we get into the sort of the deep dive of it all. But I certainly had, you know, an open mind, you know, going into this TIF. And then once I sort of heard the, you know, the steady stream of negativity for that, it was like, well, perhaps I won't. Perhaps I'll leave this one alone. Well, and this was all happening, like a week after the Don't worry, Darling Fennis stuff. Like, this is all happening basically, by the time my place has been opens, it's been a little while, but, like, that, like, craziness all happened right at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because this premieres at TIF days after, Don't worry, darling, is, premieres at Venice.

So this movie is premiering at the peak of did he spit on Chris Pine video analysis. This is a pruder film. Chris, we can't get into this before the plot description or the, or the Patreon. tease we have to we have to pace ourselves but then like to further that point you know don't worry darling opens doesn't quite bomb but everybody very publicly vocally hates it at the end of september and then a few weeks later you have this movie released so it's like it is kind of behind the curve of all of it and i think it's not helped by the fact that harry styles kind of isn't the story of this movie, like, he's not the most interesting of the three characters.

Oh, well, we'll get into that. Yeah. Yeah. He's the only one who's listed above the title, though. I noticed that as I was watching it. It says, Harry Styles, my policeman. You're like, oh. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Does this have a, does, did this get a with and? I totally, um, I think it's and Rupert Everett, maybe. Yeah. Well. I'm trying to see the poster. We can discuss why in the world he took this role and maybe the prime billing as part of it.

Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Anyway, I'm excited to talk about this with you, Katie. Get along to things like a 60-second plot description. Joe, would you like to talk to our listeners about our Patreon? Yeah, listen. Our Patreon is called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance.

We've been doing this for a little bit over a year. There are a ton of episodes right there for the taking. If you want to subscribe for $5 a month. the low, low cost of $5 a month. You'll get an entire 14 months' worth at this point, probably, right? And then, in addition to that, we release two new full-length episodes every month. The first of those two episodes every month is what we call an exception, which are movies which fit the usual. This had Oscar Buzz rubric, which entails great sort of Oscar-y expectations and disappointing results, even though they may have gotten a Oscar nomination here. here or there. Most recently, we did the film Hitchcock, which had great Oscar expectations for folks like Anthony Hopkins and Helen Mirren and ended up only getting a nomination for its terrible, terrible makeup. So other films that we have talked about include House of Gucci. House of Gucci. If there's one thing I want to say about Gladiator 2 is that it is directed

by Ridley House of Gucci, Scott. Like, it is very much the director of House of Gucci who has come to direct that movie. Other films, Knives Out, my best friend's wedding. We, E. Yes, Madonna's W.E. Vanilla Sky. Molly's Game and Barney's Version. I love that.

What of Barney's Game and Molly's version? We may never know. Charlie Wilson's War. The Mirror has two faces. Australia with our friend Katie Rich. whole episode. There's some just great stuff. The second episode every month is what we call an excursion. These are not movie recaps, but in fact, off-format discussions of things that feed our awards-loving beast, including old entertainment weekly fall movie preview issues,

old Hollywood Reporter roundtables, we do our own little end-of-the-year superlative awards. Most recently, we have covered the 2003 Golden Globe Awards, which was a real time, I will say, that was a ton of fun to talk about that with you, Chris. So all of this enjoyment, plus during this year's award season, Chris and I are just going to pop in. We're just going to pop in whenever we feel like it and talk about whatever happened. Things that are happening. And the awards race. You won't know what's coming. You won't know what we're going to say, but we're coming at you. Things, we got something up for the Gotham nominations and things, things have been happening.

Dark, scary things have been happening. But nothing in the awards race yet. But when things happen in the awards race, trust and believe. We're going to keep this award season free of dark and scary news. That's right. It's my one goal to get us through March 2nd that way. The only thing dark and scary that's waiting for us is an Osferatu. And that is all.

to sign up for this head Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance once again the low low cost of five dollars a month it's we we do our level best we take it very seriously that we make our our Patreon worth your while so go to patreon.com slash this head Oscar Buzz and sign up today my policeman my policeman my policeman of my Sharona no Or if this was 30 Rock, Mr. Polly Chemin, my Polly Chemin. Wow. Directed by one Michael Grandage, we'll talk about it. Written by one Ron Nyswanner, we'll talk about it based on the novel by Bethann Roberts, starring Harry Siles, Emma Corrin, David Dawson, Gina McKee, Linus Roach, and Rupert Everett. movie premiered, as we mentioned, at the 2022 Toronto International Film Festival

received a limited release the next month and then was on prime two weeks later. Katie, indeed. That's how we do. Katie, you know how this goes. You are a guest. You are charged with doing a 60-second plot description for my policeman.

Are you ready? Yeah, I tried writing something this time. We'll see if it improves my chances. Although you guys have gotten so lax about the 60 seconds. Us? What? How dare you?

It was like a full 180 seconds over recently. What if I spent four minutes trying to do a quick plot summary of this movie? We couldn't get on your case for it. We've been so, we've been so lax. It's not four minutes worth of plot description, this, I promise. All right. Then your 60 second plot description for My Policeman starts now. Tom, who is Harry Stiles, and Marion, who is Emma Corrin.

There are two young people living on the rocky-ass miserable beaches of England, and they meet cute when Tom gives her swimming lessons and then they get married. Tom is a policeman. Mary is a teacher. They love hanging out with their art curator friend Patrick. That's not weird. Except actually Tom and Patrick, played by David Dawson, have been carrying on a whole

affair because Patrick is drawing him. That's a way you meet people back then. It's complicated not only because it's the 50s and everyone is so homophobic that there are criminal charges against people but Tom is once again a policeman. That's all what happens in the 50s. There's also a storyline in something that

supposed to be the present, but the age doesn't really add up. In the present, Tom and Marion are still living together on a different rocky-ass speech, but they've also taken in Patrick. He's had a stroke. He can't talk, but for some reason, he still wants to spend time with Tom, who has never shown proper affection to any of the people in this movie. There's all these unspoken emotions. There's a lingering drama. There's a lot of gay sex that got very highly publicized. Eventually, we get to the part where Marion turns Patrick into the police, who aren't Tom, blows the whole thing up, and yet their marriage is still miserable. We end, In the present day, Marion has been reading Patrick's diaries.

For some reason, she decides that's the day that she's leaving. She bails on Tom, tells him he has to take care of his friend. God damn it. And so Tom does the one decent thing by just touching Patrick on the head as Marion drives away for freedom. The end. Do we know specifically? Oh, sorry. What did we say that was over?

20 seconds over. Like 20 seconds. That's great. Very economical. Do we know specifically what Patrick is suffering from? I think they said he had a stroke. Okay, okay. But it's unclear, like, what he's been doing with his life in the, you know, 40.

Again, the timeline in this movie is very strange. Like, there's no way it's the present day. They would be much older than that. And there's just no acknowledgement at that whatsoever. It really is the story of a gay man who had a lot of love to give who encountered the worst possible couple you could ever encounter where, like, the guy is so attractive that he couldn't resist him, exactly. and yet is so sort of feckless that he's going to leave him. Of course he's going to leave him hanging. And meanwhile, the third wheel, you know, fiancé, you know, and later wife is not cool about any of this stuff.

And listen, she's under no obligation to be cool, but she's so uncool that she, like, blows him into the authorities. and then in later life the guy is aloof to the point of like cruelty and the woman is taking care of him out of like some weird sense of guilt and yet then she abandons him at the end because she's decided at this very, very late stage that she's going to choose her and like, fuck the both of y'all. She's going to feel the rain on her skin. Fuck the both of y'all. The way this movie ends, I was like, what? The things you have put this poor gay man through who had to live through such horrible repressive times and literally all you had to do the two of you

was be cool and you could have had the nicest possible thruple on these horrible chilly English beaches. I want to talk about it because I had two areas of major confusion for the first half hour of this one being that the two most famous people in this movie are not playing the same character in different timelines. Wait, Rupert Everett is not

older hairy styles. I see. I don't know if that's a lot. He does have the luxurious hair that he would have made perfect sense. I mean, um, but I having not seen this movie before

this afternoon, I had I guess erroneously absorbed that this was a movie about a triad, about a ruffle, about bisexual it would have worked out so much better if it had been. So much better for everybody. Yes.

Right, right. But no, it is it is Alma and Jack Twist. It is, you know. It makes me just feel so bad for Patrick, like, genuinely. Like, what a horrible, horrible life. And he's the one who's never really center stage of this story. Yeah. And also, he's, he's a curator for an art museum. And Tom's a fucking cop. Like, fuck you, Tom. Like, fuck you right in the ear. Like, Jesus Christ.

It's like he has a gay job and everything. He's an art curator. Like, that's a movie in and of itself. Thank you. I read the book for this. I think we might have done a little golden men book club on it. I can't remember. But I read the book over the summer before Tiff and, like, reading the book and again watching the movie, like, I get that Marion is like also not innocent in this whole thing. But Tom is just such a shitty character in both the book. Because the book basically is half from her point of view and then you have the second half where it switches to Patrick's point of view. So you get a little bit more of him in there. But the entire time you're like, okay, he's hot. And he just kind of sits there being like,

oh, wow, it's too bad I have no agency whatsoever to improve any of our situations. I'm just going to bounce between these two people constantly. Yeah. And never give any of you any idea of where I actually stand or what I want from you. And let that happen to be for like literally my entire life. It's maddening. Fuck that guy. Did you hear somewhere that, this was supposedly based on loosely on the life of E.M. Forrester or like an affair that E.M. Forster

had in... I think I read that on Wikipedia. Okay. Well, I wanted to bring it up because of today's... Source or on source. Today's Learned League, Katie. I know. We were... You were bedeviled by the E.M. Forster question. I heroically

got it correct. You are... You are the smart one. How was your first day in Lerned League? How did you think? I only got two. Correct. I didn't, you know, it starts, it starts off hard. In my experience, they tend to, like, throw a couple of really hard days. I'm just happy to be included at last. I'm glad you're there. We'll see if I can prove myself to be smart. I'll come back eventually. You should. You should. You should. Katie, it's not about how many you get right. It's about your distribution of your points. Oh, my God. You'll see. You'll get it. You'll get it. The thing that I'm the worst at. Question questions on this one. So all this preparation I did for this podcast was no use to me. Imagine if they put a my policeman question on a general trivia thing. That doesn't exist.

That's not a real thing. Wow. Like this movie does not exist. No. Oh, deeply no. It didn't exist in like December or 2022, like two months after it came out. Well, and I'm sort of, I'm glad that Ron Niswiner was able to sort of follow this up with fellow travelers, which is in every way.

It's a better story. It was not a perfect show, but it was a really watchable one and a very successful one. Like, got a bunch of Emmy nominations and won a Peabody. Like, he won a Peabody Award for it and whatnot. So, like, good for the- How does that Allison Williams rank on the you don't go up there to fish scale on that show? It's, she's sort of, she's stoic and brittle about it and eventually sort of, like, vacillates between making her peace with it and being just sort of like resentful about it.

It's mostly, with Allison Williams, it's mostly about the old lady makeup that they put on her sort of gradually as the episodes advance, like one by one. She definitely, there's a lot of like tense phone calls when like Jonathan Bailey will call the house. And she has to answer the phone. And it's very, it's very that. Ron Nice one, I will say He just sort of, he indulges in a lot of those kinds of cliches

and often sort of like does them well and sort of reminds you that like these tropes are tropes for a reason because they can be very effective that series sort of like marches through the exact sort of beats of history of sort of

like 20th century American history that you would expect it to. Although it doesn't It does have one really, I thought, effective episode set pretty much entirely on Fire Island, which is kind of interesting because it came out the year after the Joel Kimbooster movie and whatnot. And I have my own sort of, you know, the resentful Fire Island sort of like mean off to the side side eye take on that place. But I think it was an interesting sort of like multi-layered perspective on what that place meant for a lot of people and also the limitations on the same. Anyway, Ron Nicewater, who wrote Philadelphia? So like he's sort of, you know, got an incredibly... Unless we forget, Freeheld, also wrote...

We do forget. Have you guys done Freeheld? We haven't. I don't want to. It bums me out. It's true. I did see it at Toronto, whatever year that was. And you'd think it would maybe bend me out. Maybe that's not what to put like... I remember...

And it's also supposed to be so, so bad. So, like, that's kind of a one-two punch of, like, a ball will keep kicking down the show. I remember getting dissuaded from that movie before I even left for Toronto. I think it was Jordan Hoffman, who was like, it was a bad movie. Like, you don't need to see that movie. And then the only thing that came out of Freeheld, Katie, at that Tiff, was going... You invited me to the Freehilder. held party and you got my photo

on Gettie images. Yeah, Joe and I both got Gettied with Brie Larson. Hopefully we're still on there somewhere. Somewhere. Breed Larson, Joe Reed, and friend. I was going to tie in what you were saying about, you know, things being cliches

for a reason and like we see the same things over and over again. Because I do think like, having read the book of my police, but I'm not sure there's a version of this story that really like is going to work again because it has this like non-existent central character. But like, the concept of like 1950s repressed romance drama like that is a well you can keep going back to like there is plenty you can draw on there including like the the terrible British beaches and you know there's

there is a lot you can get from that and especially if you have like beautiful hot stars and you've got like we can talk about who has chemistry in this movie I'm not totally sure Harry Styles has chemistry with anybody but there's a lot you can get from that and I think that's part of why I remain fascinated I was fascinated by this movie and wanted to do it and I think you guys watch a lot more movies from like the 90s and 2000s that have this thing where you're like you've got the polish you've got the cast you've got the concept and something has failed in the execution and like my policeman just fits so squarely into that tradition there's something amiss and i you know for as much as i don't want to be the sort of like harry styles hater

i do feel like he's overmatched significantly by this role by his co-stars i just feel like much much more so than don't worry darling and we'll get into the don't worry darling thing soon but I think there's a lot much more going on around him and don't worry darling that's the thing and there's and the genre element I think helps him out a little bit there whereas this really calls

upon him to shoulder a lot of emotional weight and a lot of emotion like he can't say it so he has to express it in some way and like that's hard it's hard to do well he's not an actor he's a singer who was discovered on the fucking

X factor, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's too much to ask and like, or nobody like forced him to do this movie, but like it's, it's the way we sort of cast movies sometimes, and this movie I imagine was cast, we're just like, this will get butts in the seats. This will sell tickets. And the tradeoff of that is we'll just have to find a way to work around the fact that our lead, leading man does not have the chops to pull this off. And it's not like you can, like, skate by on charm. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of times pop stars are able to do that. And in a movie, you know, certain movies, it works that way. And this is not one of those movies. You really need to, like, it's not even charming. And, like,

it's hard to tell if he's supposed to be. Like, right. I don't think he is. There's very little, like, meet, cute, fun conversations in any of this movie. Like, everyone is so solemn all the time. Even as, like, young people on the beach. which makes me think it's a fairly cynical casting decision to just be like, well cast Harry Stiles, everybody will want to see him play gay and, you know, this will show those Springfield SOBs or whatever, you know what I mean?

Like this will get him. Well, I mean, he's a problem, but I don't think he's the problem because I don't, I take umbrage with how this character specifically is fleshed out. I don't think there's much interesting about Tom, which I think makes it a harder task for Harry Styles to do something interesting with this very nondescript character in these, unfortunately, cliched circumstances, but I don't know. I mean, I think David Dawson's good in this movie.

I think Jim McKee's good in this movie, but I don't think there's a lot of there there with this movie. And I think that's why it died so quickly. because even if I think Harry Stiles was actively bad, but the movie was at least much more watchable. Sure. You know, it wouldn't be a non-existent movie. Yeah. There's just not like, you don't want a more plot,

but it's like there's got to be something to hanging around. There's got to be some action, some like small detail that like you kind of get your hooks into. I don't think the movie spends enough time with the two of them in the 50s. With any of them? Tom and Tom and Patrick. Oh, sure. You really need to be able to invest, I mean, to bring it back to Brookback Mountain.

Like, that movie really builds up to the part where they finally, you know, make a move on one another. Yeah. And there's just a lot of tension and there's a lot of, you know, character work put in there. And in this one, it feels so sort of pre-determined, you know, that like-deetermined is exactly. And you're just sort of like tapping your foot being like, all right, let's get to the part where they're, you know, whatever. And a movie that does a better job of sort of drawing you into their, you know, relationship. And, you know, you can get a charge on, you know, a conversation that they might have or a, you know, sort of like an interaction with like small sort of physical, you know, movements. And the movie does not care to invest in that kind of thing.

And so... It's that old joke about the Star Wars prequels where you have to describe the characters without saying their profession or anything about their costuming. And you can't. It's like that with this movie, except you can't say who they have sex with or what their profession is. You have to describe the character. And you can't for any of these people. Like you don't... It was like you were saying. You don't spend enough time to understand who they are as people. It's just giving you their circumstances. Yeah. And then on top of that, you have not entirely charismatic performers. Yeah. Can I praise one thing about this? I'm the one who rewatch this movie, I guess. The hours of my life I saw with my policeman keep adding up.

But something I had forgotten that it did. And it doesn't do it enough to really be consistent. But every now and then in the present day, you know, future scenes, one of the younger actors will come in just for like a second to kind of like be from the perspective of another character. Like it happens very notably at the very end, but there's like a shot where it's Gina McKee and then all of a sudden it's in some of core and like taking care of Patrick in there. And it's such a lovely like past and future colliding thing, which I think, you know, when you have a really good movie that takes place over a long period of time, you kind of do that in your own head and you kind

to see the younger version of the older versions. But it's a neat trick and it doesn't draw too much attention to itself. I think it could have happened more to make that ending landed a little bit more, and the ending would have landed if that whole relationship had been different or whatever. But I did kind of give it credit for that. I'm just like one little bit of flourish. No, I liked that, too. It's a pretty straightforwardly made movie. I like that too.

I think the older versions of them is a much more interesting story, and I think more interesting character dynamics, and I think, you know, collectively a better performance than the three young performers. You know what the older versions of them is, is just Meryl Streep and Ed Harris in The Hours. I did think about that. Maybe that's why I like that half of the story more. I did think about that. If they were in New York apartment and like one of them was dying, like then it would be bad.

Yeah, okay, I see how you're good. Yeah, like you almost want that to be more of the thrust of the movie and with minor flashbacks. Yeah. Because then, you know, you can at least end somewhere satisfying or somewhere complete where the whole movie is about this trio grappling with the things they've done to each other and how they can maybe reconcile it. Yeah. Wait, I cut you off saying EMIQ and I feel like Atonement is exactly what I was trying to talk about

about the idea of layers of history. Yeah. Well, all right, here's where I'm going to throw in my rant because Atonement has something to do with it. Okay. And this is as much of a me thing as it is a movie thing. And like this is I, you know, this is a particular B in my bonnet. I never, ever, ever have sympathy for the female third wheel in gay love stories like this. I just don't ever. I'm always just like fucking get over it. Like I just like move on, figure it out,

do something else. And so when they end up doing something like Emma Corrin's character does in this movie, which is like send the guy to jail. Objectively immoral behavior. Like, objectively, like, ruin this person's life and sort of, like, take advantage of your heterosexual privilege. Which is, like, the whole... Marian's arc at the, you know, in the later stages, is supposed to be the, like, completion of the story. But we can't get on fully on board with her reconciling this awful thing that she did. Because not enough of it is about that.

And then she has this whole reckoning with Tom where she's like, listen, I'm leaving. You are going to take care of Patrick now because you've never done it before and you have never held up your end of the bargain and whatever. And I think we're supposed to take it as this like, finally this woman is taking her life, you know, by the, you know, by the lapels or whatever. And it's just like, no, you, you, she mentions that like, I just, I took care of Patrick as a way of making amends. And it's like, first of all, insufficient. First of all, like, oh, you're going to, like, be around him while he, like, suffers through the indignies of his final days. And he doesn't want to be around you, girl. After you served him up to, like, violence and oppression or whatever, second of all, you did that for a few years.

And now you've decided that you've done it enough and you're piecing out. Fucking, speaking of atonement, that girl was at least had a good faith at some moment, thought. that she was doing the right, well, whatever. She was a kid. And she, she did something bad and she sent somebody, you know, to jail and war and whatever. And then she spent the rest of her goddamn life. She spent the rest of her goddamn life in service and never changed her haircut and wrote books and, and, and dedicated her fucking life to making it right. Learn from Brian. Everyone act more like her.

This is what I'm saying. Fuck this lady. Fuck this lady I want to know Who are the other Third Wheels Who you hate I'm trying to

It's not Okay I don't hate Michelle Williams' character In Brokeback Mountain I just have to This is a thing Of gay guys I have no

Sympathy for her You do kind of hate Anne Hathaway's character Yes But no But she slays Anne Hathaway's character Own

That is a dull Standard She owns But she owns her villainy a little bit Where she owns the fact

That she's not going to be sympathetic about this She's got those face nails on the phone talking to Heath Ledger. She knows what she's doing. But there's nuance there, though, that I don't, I, I have to do the gay rebuttal and say that I don't think that there's villainy in Alma. I think that is a movie interested in character nuance and context for these characters that it's just like.

I don't think there's villainy in Alma, but again, I just can't be asked to sympathize. where somebody's like just because a lot of these stories are all just like yes but imagine being the woman whose life is turned upside down by these revelations and i'm like she's got like heteronormativity to fall back on she's gonna have she'll be fucking we're winning these oppression olympics fans don't start that's right remarry quickly yeah that's true does she marry a shitty guy i can't remember who she remarries oh listen it wasn't great for women back then either okay so like i think kate more uh says something complimentary about him I don't know. Oh, it's the dad who they get in the fight over the turkey with on Thanksgiving. This is a Brokeback Mountain episode that we have made our way into. We can't ever talk about Brokeback Day. I know. Unfortunately, too successful.

Should we jump into the Harry Styles conversation, though? Because I am predisposed to liking things like boy bands and X Factor and all this sort of stuff. I enjoyed One Direction while they were a thing. We're sort of speaking to this after, you know, after Liam Payne's sad. passing. But I always liked one direction and I've always sort of liked Harry Stiles. And I think, again, I do really think it's the dating Taylor Swift thing that turned him into a real lightning rod. And all of a sudden, everybody had to have an opinion on him. And all of a sudden, he was getting shit for things like gay baiting. And I'm not

going to subject you, Katie, to a discussion on gay baiting. Because I will go on for an hour and a fucking half. And he wrote about the Larry's enough that the point. where he was just like, I can't do this anymore. They're too crazy. I'm not subjecting myself to well. That's the other thing. It's like the One Direction fans were unwell in really sort of like genuinely toxic ways, as were the Taylor fans. So, but somebody sort of, and you know, these people who sort of become the hot one in a band and like Harry was sort of at some point became the hot one, although like obviously. I thought he was the bad boy. Well, Zane was the bad boy because Zane was the one who was like, fuck this band like I'm leaving. I always assumed Harry was like the main one. Like I was, but the main one is always the hot one. I found his one direction hair like kind of risible.

Like I don't really get how he became a sex symbol with that hair. It's much better now. That was that was the moment, Katie. I know. We were, that was everybody had that haircut back then, all those little. We're at least in a better place because he doesn't have that hair anymore. Yeah. But so like the tattoos became a thing.

And he dated, like, older women for a while, and that became a thing. And he wanted to do a solo career, and that became a thing. And so, of course, he was going to end up getting, you know, acting roles at some point. So he's in, is Dunkirk the first movie he's in, like, full stop? Yes. Okay. Well, first of all the other thing was- He was one of the many twinks drowning in that movie.

He's also like- But he doesn't drown. This is a hot topic. We all- Oh, right. He lives. He reads Winston Churchill's. we will fight them on the beach speech at the end of that movie

and does a really good job of it. Like that was one of like the most agog surprise I had Dunkirk is that they put those words in his mouth when they're on the train at the end and he nails it. It was great. Yeah. Dunkirk being the first time Christopher Nolan cast a million famous people. I mean, no true actually.

He's always kind of assembled an ensemble. Yeah. But like inception certainly was was big. And also like as the prelude to Oppenheimer of a bunch of famous white guys. who you're like, which was that? Is that the same guys before? Here, listen,

Oppenheimer, it worked out great. So I think we can all just give Christopher Null the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. Whenever this rumored helicopter movie is, I'm into it.

I'm into it. I'm starting in. I'm into it. Anyway, yes, he's very good in Dunkirk. I think he was like a really pleasant surprise in Dunkirk and like a,

you know, I'm trying to think who was the like musician who like starts making movies. Like is Mark Wahlberg the comparison? from like the 90s where you're just like, oh, wait a second. This guy might actually have

something here. Well, in terms of like best case scenario, yes, in that like Walberg became an A-list leading man, right? I think what Harry's, Harry's path is more than like Justin Timberlake path, which is sort of peaks and valleys and the valleys sort of keep getting deeper. Although, to his credit, does not seem to be as satisfied with himself as Justin Timberlake. And maybe it took Justin Timberlake a while to get there. But, like, that was also kind of part of his persona from the very beginning. And, like, Harry's had this soulful, like, I'm friends with Stevie Nick's thing that, like, he's leaning into it a different way. Yes. Well, and I think all of that is, you know, it's what was your sort of pop star packaging. You know what I mean? And it sort of extends through whatever. Justin, Timberlake is a whole other discussion that like would take a whole other podcast. Can we do in time someday? Probably. Probably. We're fucking. There's definitely some other just in Timberlake movies. I'm sure there is. I mean, best case scenario, yes, I think it's it's someone like, it's somewhat like that. I mean, you could also use maybe Gaga as a comparison point. But when you look at like the era of the 80s and 90s, you know, Madonna was never treated very nicely as a movie star. Prince certainly wasn't either. Well, but also like, well Prince is a good example because like Prince is one of the very few male pop stars who creates sort of a persona for themselves as a pop star to the to the extent to which a lot of female pop stars do. Gaga, Madonna are two very good examples. And so I think this is why I feel like

the Gaga thing doesn't really work as a comparison because like by the time Lady Gaga starring in movies, you already know that she's this sort of like larger than life persona, whereas like Harry Styles just isn't, you know what I mean? He's a musician, but he's not a star in that way. So I think it makes sense that he's in Dunkirk where he's just sort of like one of the boys. You know what I mean? It's such a smart way for him to start too. It's like not making it like the Harry Styles start a movie. It's him saying like, look, I can fit in with this world with this prestigious director and not steal the attention. Like God, Like, again, you cannot tell them all apart for so much of that movie.

Funny that you should mention that, Katie. Funny that you should mention that you cannot tell them all apart. Is this your cue? Or should we talk about Eternals first? Let's jump in here and then we'll finish the Harry conversation because I don't want to get into Don't worry, darling, before the game. As has become a tradition, speaking of a tradition like no other, starting with the Garrett-Hedlin. or Charlie Hunnam game the very first time

We had you on. You listeners, go back to our previous What movie was that? It must have been Pan. Yeah, God. So good. And then we revisited Charlie Hunnam. Yeah, then Lassadiazia came,

whatever a couple years later. So I've delighted in quizzing you both on Hollywood's propensity for having a lot of similar examples of a type of guy. And Dunkirk, I was like, well, if we're doing Harry Stiles movie, Dunkirk is a perfect example of that. Because how many times are you like, well, that guy wasn't Dunkirk, right? Wasn't he? He seems like he should have been. He seems like the type of person who was in Dunkirk. Was he though? That's where you got to really,

really think it through. So I have created a game for you guys that I am calling Dunkirk or Nunkirk. And the objective is, I will describe a role and the movie that the role was in. You need to tell me who acted this role. And whether they were in Dunkirk or whether they were Nunkirk, which is a role from a different movie. From a different. I see. Yes. Yes. You'll get the hang of it once we start. But yes. So if you're saying a private on a beach, I'd be like, right. That's a great. again. Right. Yeah. So yeah. So once you figure out who the actor is, then you have to then remember whether this actor was indeed in Dunkirk or whether they were not. So you will get up to two points per question. Katie, as our guest, as always, you will go first. Okay. Any questions before I begin? No, I'm nervous about, I love Dunkirk, but I'm feeling off my game here. All right. Question number one for Katie. As Jack, a husband and resident of a desert community where nothing at all is strange or upsetting and don't worry darling okay that would be harry styles and he is indeed in dunkirk all right that's a freebie um chris as prince caspian in the chronicles of narnia prince caspian dorian gray in dorian gray and as the seventh son in the seventh son this is ben barnes yes ben barnes is nun kirk he is not in dunk

Correct. All right, two points apiece. Katie, as a teen with leukemia, whose Jehovah's Witness parents won't allow him to get life-saving treatment in the Children's Act, or the Children Act. Oh, Jesus Christ. I don't know who that is, but I'm going to, because I know he's going to say, it's Jack Loudon, who is in Dunkirk. Well, you got the Dunkirk part, right at least. So you get a point for that. Okay. Yeah, well, so as we go along, guess the Dunkirk or not. Nunkirk part first. I see. And then guess the actor. And then we can, so you do get a point for that.

It is not. Are we doing steals? We could do steals. Let's do steals. Okay. Because that actor, I'm trying, I'm trying so hard to remember his name. He's like the protagonist of Dunkirk. He's...

Finn Wittrock? Nope, that's a different guy. Thin, he's a thin. It's a different guy. If it was just the wrong name, I would have given it to you. But Finn Wittrock is a completely different guy. Yeah. It is Finn Whitrock.

He's head. Finn Whitehead. Finn Whitehead. Very close. He's, I think, the person who's like with Harry Styles for most of his scenes, right? Yeah, he's the guy who was, is he the guy trying to poop at the beginning of the movie? Sure. Listen, everybody does it. All right. So that was Katie's question. This is Chris's. Okay. As Ricky Tar, a field agent who is harboring the identity of a mole within MI5 in Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy. Oh. Dunkirk or Nunkirk and then name the actor. It's Benedict Cumberbatch who is in Dunkirk. Well, you've got the Dunkirk part, even though Benedict Cumberbatch isn't in Dunkirk. So you backwards your way into a point.

It's Tom Hardy. That is Tom Hardy's role. Oh. Oh. Remembering the name of anybody in Tinker Taylor Soldiers by? I know. I know. All right.

Katie. Oh, the name. will help you almost none and none of these. Katie, as Tom Buckley, one of a trio of English filmmakers, tasked with making propaganda films to aid the war effort in their finest. Their finest. Oh, boy. Good movie.

That brings a vague bell of something that people have made. I'm going to say Jack Loudon again. It is not Jack Loudon. So not Jack Loudon. All right. So do you tell me who the person is and then I get to guess if they were in Dunkirk? Um, sure. Why don't, why don't I? Yes. Why don't we do that? It is Sam Claflin. Oh, Sam Claflin is not in Dunkirk. All right. Now, do you get a point for that? Should you get a point for that? I don't know, man. You made up this game. I know. I made up the rules. We're in a generous spirit. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Point for knowing he's not in Dunkirk. That's true. That's true. That's true. Okay. I feel like that's for something. All right.

Do you know how many people are in Dunkirk? I know. Necessarily that easy. That's true. All right. Chris. Chris, Chris. As a young and fraudulent William Shakespeare in Roland Emmerich's Anonymous. Oh, that is, um, is it Recy Fonz? It is not Recy Fons. Recy Fons is the guy who actually wrote the Shakespeare plays in Anonymous. Right. It is. Katie, do you want to steal the identity?

No, I don't remember who that is either. It is Raph Spall. Chris. Rays Spall. Dunkirk or Dunkirk. Dinkirk. He is not in Dunkirk. You were so confident that he was in Dunker.

I can picture his face. He would fit in great. This is the Dunkirk thing. Yeah. All right. Katie. As Lord Darnley, secretly bisexual second husband to the titular monarch in Mary Queen of Scots.

Oh, Jesus Christ. I've seen Mary Queen of Scots. So it would be whoever played Sir Sherwin's husband. So I just gets Jack Loudon again. It is Jack Loudon. Yes. Is that how they met? I guess that must be how they met.

It must be. He's in Dunkirk. He is in Dunkirk. Yes. So good in Dunkirk. I was like, oh, if she doesn't guess Jack Loudon, she's going to be so mad. Oh, my God. All right, Chris, as a blithe King Charles who likes it when the men on their horses fight in the last duel.

Oh. that's oh i don't remember i don't remember because i know it's not any of the headliners oh i was not i was not and i don't maybe remember anyone who's not a headliner in that movie so i will just i'm going to guess someone that is in dunkirk and that is also proving hard to figure out Is it Barry Keoggan? It is not Barry Keoggin.

Katie, do you know who it is? No, I was going to guess Barry also. Okay, it is Alex Lothar. I don't. You know who Alex Lothar is. He's the one from, what was that Netflix show about the two young, the two young boyfriend and girlfriend, and they're both kind of like mentally off. He's also in fucking Andor.

You're making up Netflix shows. make it up. Dude's on the next place to show. None of them. No, you know. I'm going to just say he is in Dunkirk. He's not, though. How many times can I lose this question?

I don't know, but Katie's up six to three after eight questions. All right. Katie. Okay. As Emmett, a hardened survivor of the monster apocalypse in a quiet place part two. That would be Joseph Quinn, my gladiator two boy. That's his name, right, Joseph Quinn? It's not Joseph Quinn.

What? So you're wrong about that. I said, A Quiet Place Part 2. Oh, God, that's the third one. Damn it. That's Killing and Murphy then. Well, yeah, but no points for that. But now that you know who it is, Dunkirk or Runkirk.

He is in Dunkirk. Yes, so you get a point for that. Okay. See, on the boat? I don't remember, actually. He's on the boat. I know he's in it. Oh, yeah, okay.

He's on the boat that goes to Mark Rylance's boat, right? I think so. Yeah. He's the one who doesn't want to go save them. Oh, right. they find him on the wreckage of a boat. Yes. Okay. Alright. All right. All right. Of the boat that capsized. Yes.

Chris. Yes. As Agon Targaryon the second, the fuck boy prince who becomes the fuck boy usurper of the Iron Throne in House of the Dragon. Oh. Oh. Oh. You planned this. You stacked the deck of shit I would never watch. I love that Joanna Robinson is somewhere in this world, sort of like yelling out a name, and she doesn't know why. Okay, House of the Dragon. Who is conceivably on that show? Anyone with a British accent. Yeah, Lee Pace. No. Katie, do you know who it is?

Is it Matt Smith? It's not Matt Smith. It's Tom Glencarnie. Chris is Tom Glencarnie in Dunkirk. I should say Nunnkirk, based on how this has been going. I am going to say that he is in Dunnwick. He is in Duncirk. Wow. Thank God. Katie, as Amon Targaryen, the eyepatch wearing pointy-ch-chinned second son of a royal dynasty in House of the Dragon.

I don't think Matt Smith has an eyepatch, but he's the only name I can conjure. Is it Matt Smith? It's not Matt Smith. Chris, I'm going to wager you don't want to steal. I don't want to steal. His name is Ewan Mitchell. Katie, is you and Mitchell in Dunkirk, or is he in Dunkirk? Much respect to this man.

I'm going to say Nunnkirk. He is Nunkirk. All right. So Katie gets... Okay. Chris. As Henry, the intended suitor to Amanda Seifred's character in a forest village besieged by werewolves in Red Riding Hood. Isn't that like Liam Hemsworth?

Is that your answer? Yes. No. It is not Liam Hemsworth. Katie, do you remember Red Riding Hood? Is it Alex Pettifer? It's not Alex Pettifer, but that's a very good... It's not Shiloh Fernandez,

a little Shiloh Fernandez is the boy she does end up with. It is Max Irons. Chris is Max Irons, Dunkirk or Nunnkirk? Nunkirk. Correct. Chris is getting points. In my head, Max Irons is Max Minghella as a different Nepo baby named Max, but I don't.

Understandably so. Understandably so. Katie. As the fatalistic drunken lieutenant Leslie in 1917. Oh. Is that? That Benedict Cumberbatch? It is not, although he is in 1917.

Chris, want to steal? George Mackay. It's not George McKay. It is Andrew Scott. Oh. Katie is Andrew Scott Dunkirk or Nunkirk? He is not in Dunkirk. Correct.

All right. I totally forgot Andrew Scott was in that movie. Chris, as Galley. Initially the main antagonist to the Dylan O'Brien character, but eventually part of the resistance in the maze runner films. great um um is is is that no that's not barry um is is that mark rylance it is not mark rylinds katie do you want to steal uh is freddie highmore it's not freddie highmore it is will polter dunkirk or nunkirk

will polter is dunkirk he is nunkirk Katie. Did you think this game was going to be this hard? No, I'm loving it, though. Katie's up nine to four. Katie, as Dr. Doom in the awful and cursed Josh Trank version of Fantastic Four. Oh, God. I remember all of, oh, God.

I remember all the people who, like, played the main people. And it has to be a British. Oh, is it? No, Jamie Bell was the thing. Ah, shit. I'm going to say Freddie Highmore again. I don't know. It is not Freddie Highmore. Chris, want to steal? Is this Leapace?

It is not Leapace. It is Toby Cable. Katie, is Toby Cable in Dunkirk, or is he NunnCard? I did not remember that Toby Cable was it. I think he is not Dunkard. He is not in Kirk. Correct, correct. Oh, hey. Katie is up 10 to 5. Chris, as Edward, the Faye Little Prince of Wales, though not nearly as much of a sissy as Mel Gibson made him in Braveheart, in Outlaw King.

Is this Barry Keoggan? It is not Barry Keogan. Katie, can you steal? I remember Outlaw King. I hope I, no, I cannot steal. Is it George Mackay? It's not George Mackay. It is Billy Howell.

Chris is Billy Howell in Dunkirk or is he in Dunkirk? He's in Dunkirk. Yes, correct. Chris gets a point. Okay. I don't know who that is. You've seen him in these. Chesellbee.

Oh, I saw him in Outluck King. He's on Chesley's a saddest boy on Cheselby. Yes, he is. All right. Katie, as Leonard, a tailor for the mob in the outfit. I don't know what the outfit is, and I'm going to say it's Mark Rylance. It is Mark Rylance. You should watch the outfit.

The outfit's very good. He has a Taylor vibe to, and he is indeed Dunker. And he is in Dean Dunkirk. That's a two-pointer for Katie. He's going to war, George. The outfit's very fun. Take it from me and Fran Hoffner. Go see the outfit.

Okay. Chris, as John Brooke, Lori's Tudor, and Meg's eventual husband in Greta Gerwig's Little Women. John Brooke. Oh, this is that guy. Oh, I don't know his name. He's a redhead, right? I think, yeah, more or less, yeah. No.

Very light blonde, if anything, but... Yeah. I don't even have a... name to throw out there. Joseph Quinn. Not Joseph Quinn. Katie, do you remember who this is? I don't know. It is James Norton. Chris, is James Norton? Dunkirk or Nunkirk.

Yes, correct. Yay. Okay, Katie, as Rufus Sixth, clandestine lover to a rumpled Benwishaw in Cloud Atlas. Oh, God. Is it Rupert Friend? Is that your answer? Yes, but I know I go.

Oh, it's James Darcy. It is James Darcy. Damn it, damn it, damn it, damn it. I don't know why those names exist in my head together is the same person. He is in Dunker. Yes, he is. All right, another two-pointer for Katie. Chris, as a German general who plotted to kill Hitler in Valkyrie.

Not Tom Cruise. I've maybe never seen Valkyry. Good movie. Well, I thought it was a good movie then. Leav Schreiber. Not Leif Schreiber. Katie, can you remember? Is it Kenneth Branagh?

It is Kenneth Branagh. Katie gets a steal. Is Kenneth Branagh in Dunker? Who missed to answer? Me or Chris? Oh. I guess Chris. Yeah, I think Chris should get.

Kenneth Branagh is very much so. Yes, very much so. Yes. Okay. This is Katie. As Thomas McGregor, great nephew of Farmer McGregor and heir to his property in Peter Rabbit. Is this you and McGregor? It's not you and McGregor.

Oh, wait. No. hang on. I've seen this movie. Well, Chris gets a chance to steal. He does. And now I know who it is. It's Donald Gleason. It is Donald Gleason. Yeah. All right. Katie, you though get, is Donald Gleeson, Dunkirk or Dunkirk? I'm taking guess I think he's not in Dunkirk.

Correct. Point for Katie. Okay. Chris. As Jeff Cole, one of a group of gay Londoners who head to Wales to assist a mining community and who becomes a particular favorite of the Welsh children, in pride. Oh, no. Oh, what's this actor's name? Here's all I will say is if you watched slow horses, you would know. And I know you don't watch slow horses, so this is a little bit of me shaming you for not watching slow horses, because it is great. Ben something.

It is not Ben something. Katie, do you know who this is? I started watching Slow Horses, which is why I finally figured out who Jack Lug. Loudon is, but I don't know who this is either. This is Freddie Fox. Chris, is Freddie Fox, Dunkirk or Nunnkirk? Dunkirk. Dunkirk.

Katie. Damn. Okay. As Sean Bannon, a kid who gets caught up in the Irish Republican Army and is eventually killed when he won't commit murder in 71. Remember 71? Oh, yes. Oh, God. I feel like this is a...

We're back to Lake Jack O'Connell, et cetera. I'm going to say Jack O'Connell. It is not Jack O'Connell. Jack O'Connell maybe survives 71. Chris, can you steal? Is this George McCai? It is not George McCoy. This is Barry Keogh.

I should have done that. Katie is Barry Keogyn in Dunkirk. Very much. It is in Dunkirk. All right. Chris, last question. As Soren, a barn owl, and the main protagonist in Legend of the Guardians, the Owls of Gohul.

I have to go. I have to leave. I need to get my Christmas ornament out for this occasion. Is it Jeffrey Rush? It's not Jeffrey Rush. No, this is the only person I didn't use in that game because he's not Australian. Katie, can you steal? Oh, is this going to be an Australian person who's in?

It's not an Australian. This is an English person. Oh, I see an English person who like somehow wormed their way into the garden. I could use, I only used Australians for the last game, so I didn't use this person. in the last game. Is it Michael Kane? It is not Michael Kane. It is Jim Sturgis. Oh. Chris is Jim Sturgis,

Dunkirk or Nunkirk? Dunkirk? What did you say? Nunkirk? Nunnkirk is correct. All right. There we go. I thought you're going to speak Michael Kane in because his voice is on the radio. Michael Kane is a voice in Dunkirk, but I did not include him. Final tally, Katie with 17, Chris with 10. Katie, you have won. Well done, Katie.

I do feel like we stumble through the darkness there together, Chris. We did. Thank you once again for indulging my annual Feet of Madness. I guess we should talk about Eternals very briefly. He shows up in the post credits of Eternals as Eros, aka Star Fox, who is Thanos's brother in... I imagine this was going to... I literally put a question mark in brackets next to Thanos's brother.

Ultimate, like, so many Marvel movies I go. I remember when Thanos showed up at the end of whatever the movie it was that he showed up at the end of. And I was just like, I don't care who this guy is. I don't know who this is. Why are you all so excited? And like, Eternals was already so cursed in like this, its own special way. And like, by the time that came out, it was just like, what are we doing here?

Because I felt the same way. I continue to still learn things against my will about eternity. All right. Well, you're about to learn some more because I'm going to say something briefly about it. As someone who likes Sama Hayek, I might make you watch. watch Eternals at some point. She is having fun. The thing about Eternals is...

I was not not... It's not terrible. The thing about Eternals is, as a part of the Marvel universe and coming right after the Infinity War end game sort of like double there, it opened, I think, probably too many doors as to where... as to where things could go in this sort of greater story, and that, like, it kind of redefined the parameters of the universe. All of a sudden, there are these, like, gods who exist outside the realm of the world, and there's this giant sort of, like, furnace man who

exists, like, fully, like, bigger than the planet or whatever. And then at the same time, in its post-credit scenes, it not only introduces Mahershal, as Blade, but also introduces which we'll never get, like that movie's like, which we'll never get. Not happening. And it introduces Harry Stiles as Star Fox, who we'll also never see again, as Thanos's brother. So all of a sudden now we've redefined Thanos as not just like the big bad of

all of these movies that we've already seen, but now like somebody with a family. And like, and so like, what is that entail? And and each, ultimately, Eternals was not, because Eternals was not only not, a success, but was sort of reacted to by most, by like, the casual, the people, the casual MCU viewers, the people who, like, made those movies, the billion-dollar movies that they were, because it was only the hardcore fans who went and saw them. Those movies would have had such a limited cap. But all the people who, like, made the Avengers movies into

billion-dollar movies saw Eternals and were like, what the fuck is that? I don't want that. that is too much. And so it's sort of like just strands a whole bunch of really interesting stuff. That's why every once in a while you'll get somebody who will make a joke about like, does anybody want to like address the fact that there's this like giant space hand like sticking out of the ocean in the Marvel, in Earth somewhere? Yeah, because is there anything in Eternals that gets acknowledged in a later movie? Yeah. Does anybody show up in another movie ever again?

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So all of that stuff. So that's a dead end. I also forget that the Marvel's has this really incredible. Like, it's got, like, I remember that it had like Jim and Chan and Richard Madden and they're like weird non-existent romance. But like Brian Tyree Henry and Barry Keogan being in the same movie should rule. Brian Tyree Henry playing the gay character.

Hello. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I forgot about that. I remember like there's lots of like weird micro-romances. I like. like Barry Keogan in that movie? Like there are there are the thing with the death girl, right? Like they have the one who was in the Walking Dead. Yes. Yeah. There are interesting parts of that movie. It's fascinating that Angelina Jolie is in that movie because her character really does not get very much to do at all. It's just an odd bit of like what how did that casting come about? What was going on there? So like it's a puzzling movie. It's not a terribly.

thrilling movie, but it's not interesting. You know what I mean? It's not uninteresting long before Harry's style strolls in. That's the thing. And so it's a dead end for Harry career-wise. And then he gets cast in Don't Worry, Darling. Here's what I

will say, and then I'll sort of recover my voice and I'll kick it off to you guys. My thesis about Don't Worry Darling is it was a perfect storm of angry Taylor Swift fans and people who were for whatever reason

ready to turn a possible lady versus lady actor versus director tiff into this like we're taking sides kind of a thing and the Harry Stiles fans too well that's the thing is that right so you have the Taylor fans who hated Harry you had the Harry fans Who hated... The Taylor fans being disinvolved, anyway. I'm not totally as convinced that the Taylor fans had the strong role in display, but anyway. Nor I, but...

They did that. They were, they got, they chimed in. Anytime you get, anytime you get people who are, like, loudly and aggressively anti-Herry Stiles, those are the one. Like, that's who you're talking about. It's, those are the people. But yes, and then the Harry Styles people jumped in and hated Elizabeth Banks because they're, like, weirdly territorial over Harry.

I mean Olivia Wild? Did I say Elizabeth Banks? Well, all female directors are the same job. I'm being racist about my blonde actress directors. Sorry Elizabeth Banks. I did not mean to a Cinematrix player, by the way. Cinema Matrix player, Elizabeth Banks, I should be more cognizant. Yes, Olivia Wilde.

My apologies. I said Elizabeth Banks like three times. Olivia Wilde. So all the hairy fans turned against Olivia Wilde for immature reasons. And while not denying that. there was probably not great behavior from a director on that movie. I do feel like it was turned into a soap opera in a way that felt the deck was kind of stacked against Olivia and the knives were really, really out for her. And I will take your comments while I

sip water. You, I think you kind of jumped over the demois of it all because there's There's the Dumas corner of the internet. There was the Harry Stiles fans of it all. But explain the Dumas thing because like our listeners might not understand what you mean when you say that. What the Dumois? What was their angle? What was the DeMois angle in this story? A lot of the rumors of what went down on that movie got perpetuated through Dumois.

And DuMois had like a stake then in the story in sort of perpetuous. Yes. It was like the hottest story Des Moire. has ever had will ever have and like demois was on DWD watch and was solidly like team flow

yes because Lars few was extremely online like she and like sarcastic and like cool in a way that Olivia Wilde she was a fun mean girl in a way that everybody wanted to be on her side this was a really early skirmish I feel like now into like millennial cringe versus Gen Z people of like Olivia Wilde is really like tryhardy like that

gif of her at some kind of rally. Next to Michael Moore and Mark Ruffalo. I don't know what they're doing. I've never figured out the origin of that. They're protesting Trump. It was going to say it felt like a resistance protest. Yes. Like that was like really the worm turning on that. I also feel like the COVIDiness of lingering in 2022 like really can't be underestimated. Like this is all happening a couple months after the slap. This is the same summer that like people are throwing stuff at people on stage at concerts. Like no one remembers how to behave in public anymore. I forgot about that. What did they throw at pink?

They threw like... With crazy stuff. Like people were just like being monsters. Like cheese or something like that. Like a wheel of cheese. They gave, I thought they gave pink a giant wheel of cheese. Yes. And also ashes.

Yes. Something got ashes. For their mother's ashes on stage. Like people were losing it. Not that many movies had been in production. Like I need to go back and like look at what actually came out in 2022. But like there weren't that many movies. There wasn't that much celebrity gossip.

There wasn't that much on-set gossip. I feel. like there was something about COVID protocols and all the don't worry darling drama about who had to shut down. I thought part of the right was that Olivia was not observing COVID. Yeah, like, we really, no one was in a great place in the summer of 2022 still and like was kind of Matt. Like even though things were like opening back up, people had forgotten how to behave. And I imagine Florence had legitimate complaints too. If like she was feeling ignored by her director who was like taken a sojourn with, you know, her leading man.

Yeah, that's like the most annoying thing in the world. But I also feel like Florence wielded Instagram to, like, as a weapon, as any sort of aggressive way, which I always feel. Well, because everybody was like, Florence talks about everything she does. Why isn't she talking about this movie? Which, like, I'm less convinced that she played into it, except into, you know, showing up the premiere and having. The revenge dress and the whole fucking, I have a weird hang-up when I feel like the gays on Twitter are acting like the acolyte minions of Regina George. I feel like there is a subset of our people, Chris, who want nothing more than to sort of back up the meanest girl in high school and be. They're little foot soldiers.

This is true, but I do think in this case you're over-correcting and casting... I don't know if I'm over-correcting so much because I don't think I'm doing anything, but casting, like, a quizzical eye at it. Like, I'm not, like, coming out and, like, riding for Olivia Wilde in this situation. I'm just sort of being, like, aren't we all maybe bullying somebody a little bit? She's very famous and is still getting work. She's... Oh.

like this did not go well for her at all, but she's, she's emerging, so. I think she's fine. I just don't think it makes people look good to look like bullies. I don't like, I do not like to see people acting low as Vanessa. But I thought like Florence's whole power in this is like it was about the hashtag she didn't post. And then it's about one video she posted herself in an outfit. Like it's like she kept her mouth shut the entire time. She said the like bare minimum of a nice thing she needed to about Olivia Wild.

like she didn't really fan the flames and like yeah i feel like she kind of comes out above it all and the internet mob i guess gets to do her bidding for her if that was her won the cold war yeah yeah and she gets to stay like cool and above it all and olivia is like the like try hard uh girl boss who everyone wants looked down on and yet again that was the other thing katy i feel like i have that impulse to stand this was very much a shovel full of dirt on the girl boss archetype moment too where people were

getting real damn sick of that you know trope that you know that sense that the girl bosses will lead the way

kind of the thing and yeah never forget that the video that leaked from Shia La buff starts with her is saying

I just got back from riding my horse I forgot that Shia is involved God oh with like He, like, released the video.

Like, the child also, like, a real unreliable actor in all of it. Well, now, okay. Who's the real villain in this? Like, he's the, he's an actual villain in all of this, right? Like, some of the people in this are cringe. Some of the people miss whatever. But anyway, so everybody shows up in Venice, including Chris Pine. They do a press conference.

Florence isn't there. Shows up whatever days late in her revenge dress. Um, there's so... She was filming at that time. She wasn't late. Okay. Dead Evil Nouve was not going to let her leave Tunisia or whatever the fuck they were. Like, yeah.

She could have gotten there. I don't know. I don't buy that. They weren't letting Zendaya go film another season of whatever that show is called. Oh, because she's dying to go back and film Euphoria. All of them are just waiting for the moment. They can go back and make that show. But so they do the press conference before the, the premiere.

Yeah, right? That's the deal. Yes, that's where you get the photo of Chris Pine looking like he's in Team America World Police sitting at the table. Chris Pine's such a weird person. Chris Pine being like adjacent to history between fucking Cheryl Boone Isaacs and then this. I know I referenced Forest Scump in this episode once already, but truly like a Forrest Sump version of Hollywood, but just Chris Pine bumbling through minor. and in the middle of it making pool man god so they go to sit not so secret freak

they go to sit in their seats at the venice film festival for the premiere of don't worry darling everybody's taking photos everybody's taking videos because it's harry and pines in his seat Harry approaches. Does he like reach out for a handshake or whatever? Right? I'm pulling up the kid. I don't think he reaches out for a handshake. No, I think he just sits down.

Because like they've already been on all the, like their red carpet and stuff together. I'm pulling up the video. I know. Thank you. I'm going to YouTube. No, I'm going to do it too. It's all like people commenting on the video. He like sits down and then Chris Pine looks into his lap with this like look of like,

Like, wow, uh-huh. Right. Okay. So he does have that look of like, you little fucking shit. I do believe that Harry Styles spit something. Really? Whether it was a luggy or whether it was like, you know, like a piece of paper or whatever. Just like something in a little.

Wow. I do, I don't feel like it was an active animosity. I think it was two boys like, you know, it was the, you ever hang around boys in high school? who would like slap each other with like nut taps or whatever. It felt like that level of like, I'm going to do something and you're not going to be able to retaliate because we're in front of everything. He made Pool Man. You don't just nut tap that guy.

I think the director of Pool Man is nuttappable. I feel like that's what it was. Because the other thing is like Olivia is also there and also looks exactly what it is. And I think, like, that is my belief is that it was a one-upsmanship between two dumb boys. So you think there was spit? Because I thought the, I thought, I think it was a projectile of something. I actually, I feel like the most convincing explanation I saw was that Chris Pine found his sunglasses in his lap at the exact moment that air is up. Because you see that's a pretty possible that's a real fucking coalescing, he has this real like, oh, you dummy, my sunglasses were right here the whole time.

which sounds like me being very Pollyanna-ish about it. But like, why would Harry Sons spit on your spine? I'm asking this question since 2022. I'm going to keep asking it. I mean, this is why my explanation is like, it's prank-based, right? Yeah, no, it makes sense. Because I just don't, like, I don't, it does not make sense as a, as a provocative action of animosity. I don't buy the sunglasses story.

That feels like a lame cover story to me. It makes no sense. It's very funny though. And we were all fucking zeprootering through that footage for days, two days straight, I feel like, at minimum. Again, we were not well in this period of time in our lives. And it's worth remembering that. But yeah, that was like that was all anybody could talk about. talking about for days. And the fact that we still don't know the truth that, like, Chris Pine

doesn't seem like the most, like, a reserved guy and yet has still never really told us what going on. Everybody's so elliptical about it. I know. It's very funny. So. Because everybody involved with Don't worry, darling, just wants to wash their hands with any discussion. Well, this is the other thing. So the movie comes out. It gets lamb based in in the press. I think it's a bad movie, but not as bad as it was made out to be. I think it was sort of the the badness was exaggerated. I think it's a unsuccessful sort of twilight zoney sort of, you know, movie. I think it's pretty clear, too, that there are major sections of story and scenes that they just did not film.

Well, that's possible. What remains was strung together. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, people have the, like, what is like the one Hollywood story that you would want to get to the bottom of and like I don't know that don't worry darling is my one but it's on the list it's on the list it deserves consideration the explanation is probably boring compared to all of the like delightful it's much more fun to speculate I will like it was a very fun few days of speculation it was just it was a fun time I I mean I think that it's the boring answer but my

my curiosity is if the thing behind it all is COVID because like we know that the rumors are out there that the COVID restrictions were We think Harry spit COVID on to Chris Pine? Is that what's going on? Well, certainly, yes. I love that. I love that explanation. So anyway, I do think...

Is Harry Styles to blame in any of this? No, but I think the thing about the spit went to show that don't worry, darling, got so out of control that no one involved with the movie whatsoever was safe. But I also feel like it all also revealed a subset of people who wanted to find something to blame Harry for in this whole situation. You know what I mean?

Well, people who are being, like, so weird about the age gap thing, which, like, that relationship was never going to manage to last. He's always had this controversy over him in terms of... Who wasn't so dated? I didn't remember this part of it. When he was in one direction, I feel like there were these stories about him sort of randomly dating or sleeping with... older women and... I'm going to go back to Harry Stiles's... Well, I guess the entire existence of the idea of you is a fan fiction based on...

Is Harry Stiles fan fiction? Exactly, exactly. And it then, you know, exacerbated, again, the psycho fans of Harry's who... It's a dark... Those are some dark rabbit holes when you sort of like see the absolute overinvestment. We sort of have our fun with the chasing Chalames of the world and whatnot, but like... There are, sorry. Chasing Chalemay is a podcast that exists.

Oh, is it? Yes. Club Chalemay is the best Twitter account. We love Club Chalemay. Yes. But also, like, there, like, it's a real fine line between, like, enjoying the hilarity of Club Chalemay while also being like, this is like, you know, just on the edge of Annie Wilkes territory, maybe, maybe. You know what I mean? You know, we don't know.

We don't know. To bring it back to my policeman a little bit, I think it is important to do the whole don't worry darling thing when discussing my policeman and why it was such a failure because that all, especially with the spit thing blowing up right before this movie premieres, that all got way more ink than this movie ever did. And then when people talked about it, they talked about, you know, Harry Styles, gay sex seats and then having very little. Well, the very most optimistic version that I remember hearing at the time was, there's going to be all of this attention on Harry for, don't worry, darling, and there's going to be, you know, at Venice and whatnot. And then my policeman is going to ride all that free publicity and be like the thing that is good that then he's going to take all that free publicity and sort of ride that into award season. This was before anybody had sort of seen my policeman. That was the absolute, like, rosiest outlook on how that situation was going to work out. And ultimately, my policeman doesn't turn out to be very good.

And so it didn't work out there. Do you think there's a role in which that would have actually happened? Like, what movie does this need to, does it need to be, like, the hours, actual the hours to be able to be good enough to live up to that? First of all, how dare you? Do not speak of those movies in the same sentence. I think he would have to have been, like, like the theory of everything level impressive. Do you know what I mean?

Like sort of like a real transformation kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think he would have had to have been, he would have had to have been afforded more than this character would afford him to be impressive. Because I don't think the character that he's tasked to play is he ever going to really have that type of, you know, attention-seizing performance

because it's the least interesting character it's the titular character but it's the least interesting of this trio. Yeah. There's a scene in the movie where I felt like I really saw him come up against his limitations which is basically where like Marion has like called the cops on Patrick. It's all falling apart and he kind of has to finally come clean and like

he just can't like he's a repressed character but even in this moment of catharsis he's just like I know I'm sorry that I've let you down. Let's move on from this and like there's just nothing there. And that's where, I feel like kind of the mass comes off a little bit on what he's actually capable of. Yeah. I think that's right. I think that's right. I also don't think Emma Corrin's all that impressive in this, but I've seen Emma Corrin be impressive in other things. So I, so, you know, I'm much more easily able to kind of glide past this and just be like,

well, I didn't watch Emma's seasons of the crown, but I was a big, big fan of Emma in murder at the end of the world, which was the- Oh, you're the person who watched that show. There are dozens of us, dozens of us. Is it getting a second season, or am I confusing it with nine perfect strangers? You're thinking of that one. That one is getting a second season. Murder at the end of the world, me and Roxanna Haddadi are going to ride off into the, into the sunset loving that show um no i i i don't know i i mean i'm a sucker for britt marling of course but i think just in general that was sort of it was not like greatness but it was just like it was real solid it was a real solid show so can i share an emma corin fact that i was not aware of

it to their wikipedia uh as of twenty twenty four corin is in a relationship with robbie mallock go off i did is that a thing really How did I, I was absolutely, I have no idea. I'm now going to try to find, oh, this is a story pegged to Deadpool and Wolverine. Interesting. Is Rami Mollick in Deadpool and Wolverine? It says, Corrin prefers not to discuss their partner, the actor Rami Malk. Okay.

This is all news to me. I didn't know they were in Deadpool. This is like how I only recently found out that Cynthia Rievo and Lena Wathar married. Well, you did not hear that from Vanity Fair. I'll tell you that much. You did not hear that from a publication in these United States. A publication that may be posted photos of Bedclad. The best part of that whole thing was that it was this like allegedly, big huge secret that nobody allegedly in the press allegedly is allowed to talk about allegedly.

And yet, like, in the like, I think it was the Times piece on Ben Platt and Noah Galvin's wedding that like Ben Platt is like, They're like, who inspires you? And he's like, Cynthia Revo and Lena Waite's love is, you know, is what inspires us and whatever. And it was a Vogue.com slideshow. Thank you. That's all I have to say on the matter. Anyway. I had my policeman-related thought that I was going to bring out.

Now I cannot remember what I was trying. Did you watch the Crown while the Diana seasons? Yes, I watched the Diana Seasons of the Crown. I thought the Emacorn was pretty good. But, like, Diana is such a specific character, and, like, I would take their performance over as Elizabeth Tabicki's in some ways. Oh, interesting. Yeah, like, I like Elizabeth Tabickey a lot, but I think the, like, the young, terrified version of Diana. And I kind of, like, more similar to what Christmas Stewart was doing in Spencer, honestly.

Right, right, right. Kind of, like, gives you more to play with in some ways. That makes sense. I want Elizabeth Debicki to, like, get a. real fucking, not that that's not a real role, but you know what I mean? Like, I want Elizabeth Debicki. I know. She's just out there winning awards

for the crown when everyone is like so thoroughly done with the crown. She was the last person anybody was interested in and giving an award to for the crown. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. This is an awards magnet for such a long time. I remember the thing that I was going to talk about. This is like a tangent, but they can give like TIF movie

equivalence to my placement in some way. Am I the only one of us who saw on Swift horses this year? Yes. I did not see on. What was that one again? That's the Jacob Allerdy Gay one. So it's like a real My Policeman pattern where it's like you have this big, you know, Jacoba Lurdy has this big breakout with Priscilla and Salfourne last year. And then he's in this movie with Diego Colva.

And then Daisy Edgar Jones, Daisy Ridley has nothing to do with this as the other one. I screwed this up in a group chat today. Chris fully speeding past Daisy Ridley Jones and not realizing his mistake in the chat the other day was very funny. But yeah, so it's like Jacob Allardy, like he and Diego Calva have this like romance at a casino and Las Vegas and it's this kind of muddled historical drama that like is not quite my policeman level like like lead in, but like I did not think it was fully successful. It's certain pictures classes picks it up. It's coming out next year. I was, I remember being regretful that it, that I didn't watch it at it. It is an object of interest and not quite the same level of derision you to go to my policeman where it's just a total failure.

It just is interesting how it's like the, all right, young hot guy, you showed us what you can do. Where's your period gay drama so that the fans can go nuts? And Jacob Bellarney is falling right into those footsteps. It is funny that that's become sort of a checkmark, a checklist item for sort of a certain strata of young, up-and-coming Hollywood actor. It is a fascinating. That's a letterbox. But I will also say one of the more encouraging things, not everybody finds this encouraging. but I do, is the sort of increasingly sort of like affectionately squishy strata of male

stars. I'm speaking probably specifically of Paul Meskell in this, where it's just like, oh, like, Paul Muskell's just going to like hang around with Andrew Scott and Matt Bomer and Jonathan Bailey for like an entire year on, you know, over two. But weren't they just all going to the same award shows? I was going to say over two. Over two. Over two. separate award cycles and just sort of like become besties. And they're all going to like kind of act gay together. And it's like a lot of people will be like, gay baiting or whatever. And I'm just like, you know what? They're all handsome. Maybe he's just a nice boy. And they're all having

fun. And they're all like young and attractive. This is the other thing. I always go back to that line in Mistress America where Greta Gerwings like, you're young and you should all be kissing each other all the time. Like, you should be kissing everybody all the time. And, like, just like that's, yes. Paul's, like, half of Andrew Scott's age. Oh, we're going to get into age gap. Are we going to get

to age to scores now? Is that what we're going to do? Is that what's going to happen? Is that what's going to have to defend? Andrew Scott got really famous late in his career. And so he's just, like, a movie star age, he's 30. They're all very attractive. Great. I just feel like Harry Styles kind of survived that period of it. Like, I'm not super up to date on, like, the gay baiting era, people being mad at Harry Styles.

But, like, he was like, I was looking on his Wikipedia. Like, he was on the cover of Better Homes and Gardens promoting his album or something or another. It was basically like, I just feel like that's an outdated question. And, like, people have kind of cut up to that. And, like, maybe people can say that's like him getting away with something that he shouldn't have. But he was, he's like emerged from one era into another and has like kind of been able to. He's also on that generational cusp who very, very. much prefers the no labels sort of approach to that kind of a thing, which I have my own

sort of issues with. I often wonder whether that's just a genuine, you know, urge to get rid of labels or whether labeling yourself isn't the more forthright thing to do. But whatever. Yeah. Do what you want. Do what you want. Have Harry Styles hang out with Matt Bowmer and John. rather than Bailey find another award insightful to... He also sort of got into this thing that Timmy got kind of got into for a little bit where it was like, Harry was going to wear a dress on a magazine cover. And then everybody was like...

He didn't he actually do that? He did. Yeah. And then because you have so many people being like groundbreaking. And then you have, of course, then the requisite clapback of like not groundbreaking bad. And so it exists somewhere in the middle, you know. Maybe the way to get everyone off your back is just be like Timmy and date a really famous woman who nobody wants you dating. And so no one wants to talk about it anymore.

And everyone leaves you alone. Listen, Club Salome and I have one thing in common. And that is the fact that neither one of us wants Timmy. That you both love Wonka. That neither one of us wants Timmy dating that woman. You both love Well, yes, also that. I will ride the Wonka train

Where are you to take me. Wanka is great. Waka's great. All right. We did either of you see Lady Shatterley's lover, the other film for which Emma Corrin showed up

in the Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtable. It was at the same TIF, right? It was a Netflix release that year? It was not a TIF. I think they took it to tell your eye nowhere else and then Netflix did not lift a Daneff other than getting Emacor

and in that roundtable. Because I feel like I remember thinking about that movie and All Quiet on the Western front in the same sort of breath, which was All Quiet premiered at that TIF. Right. I don't think was anywhere else. But I remember thinking, oh, these are just like two Netflix movies that are like destined for nothing because. Oh, yeah, at that TIF, nobody was talking about Al Quiet on that.

There was no chatter about the, pardon my pun, about either one of them. Yeah, Lady Chatterley's Lover was Teller, I don't know where else. But I remember thinking about the both of them. I was just like, well, Netflix has these two movies that don't seem to exist but for awards contention, and yet they don't seem to be doing anything with these movies to contend them for awards. And I was right about one of them and wrong about the other. To close the door, I guess, on Emma Corrin's performance in this movie, again, I think it's a performance that's held back by not a very interestingly written or depicted character struggle. What did we think of the third spoke of this triangle?

Tell me about who David Dawson is and like, I don't know. This was supposed to be his big breakout role in some ways. and I have no idea what he's been up to. He was in that film London Boulevard that took forever in a day to actually come out with it was the William Monaghan movie with Colin Farrell and Kira Knightley and it was this like

stylish crime drama kind of a thing and I remember it being like in the pipeline for a very long time and I never saw. He was on Picky Blinders for a minute. Yes. Okay, so Peekeey Blinders is my version of Chris with the MCU where it's just like people sort of disappear into there and then emerge at different moments. And I assume that everybody of a certain demographic has been on peekie blinders at some point.

Yeah, if they were in Dunkirk, the odds of them being in peekie blinders increased exponentially. I really should have done that actually is Dunkirk or Pecky Blinders. Well, Killian Murphy is like when Oppenheimer came out, I was like, Oh, he's way more famous than I realized because he's been on Peaky Blinders and so many people have watched it. I just had not. Like, when I'm like, where did Joe Cole both come from and go to? The answer to that is Peaky Blinders. Yeah. Adrian Brody was on Peeky Blinders?

Every time I see Joseph Quinn in something, I'm like, is he Joe Cole? No, he's not Joe Cole. And then I wonder where Joe Cole went to. Tom Hardy was like a main cast member on Peeky Blinders for like five seasons. Yeah? Mm-hmm. crazy. Maybe now. Maybe I should try to start watching Making Blasters. I'm not going to start I would love to. My thing with I got so burned out on crime dramas after the difficult men

era of television, after the Sopranos Breaking Bad, sort of whatever. And also the fact that this is definitely one of those shows that I imagine just sort of like revels in making people's teeth as dirty as possible. And I don't know that for a fact. But like, I'm just kind of That was definitely taboo, the other Tom Hardy show. Oh, God. Yes, the teeth on that one. You know what? Here's what I'm going to say.

Let us suspend our disbelief for a moment when it comes to teeth. And just I will grant that nobody's teeth were probably very good looking back then. But let's just all agree to suspend our disbelief so that I don't have to endure that. It's not that bad. Just watch any movie from the 70s and 80s. You know my fascination with Tom Cruise's original teeth. Like, it's so, like, just especially watching things in high-deaf or like in a 4K now, where it's just like, wow, they just used to let full-blown movie stars have teeth like that back then. What was that like?

It's not just like, it's not just like janky teeth, though. It's the, it's the 1800s dirty teeth thing that buzz you. I also, I can't remember. what movie it was. I want to say it might have been no strings attached, but it was something where I saw a Natalie Portman movie, a contemporary Natalie Portman movie, in a theater. And I remember thinking, right there on the big screen, and whenever she smiled, you could very, very much tell that she did teeth whitening on her, like, middle teeth, but it didn't extend to, like, all of them. And you can see, either she's like... She's a smoker, too. A smoker and coffee and

whatnot and so just like the middle of her her middle teeth all were very very white and everything else was just like coffee stained and and cigarette stained or whatever and i was just like you knew that she was going to be like on a screen like this like maybe like give her the full set of white strips or something friends like what's going on okay i've been on david dawson's uh wikipedia page he's continues to be a working actor but his husband is a young adult not novel author. He has this dystopian YA book that the sequel

had the screen rights acquired by Terran Edgerton. Speaking of people who may or may not be in Beaky Blinders or in Dungeons. Dang. Yeah. So maybe we'll be seeing him on the trail with his husband as an author. I don't know. We'll see how this all works out.

David Dawson definitely the best of the young performances. Yes. 100%. He was a Rada guy. Was in Wolf Hall? Seemingly, maybe. I feel like we will just see him continuing to show up and stuff. Like, for all we know, he's already been cast in the new Christopher Nolan movie, and we'll see him here in two years. Good for David Dawson.

Bad for everybody else. No, good for David Dawson for being the best one in this movie. I see. Should we talk about Rupert Everett? I realize we kind of rush past him being in this movie. I hope that he's cast in this role because he's not given much to do. Rupert Everett's got a very... interesting career. Well, I feel like he's been pretty open about how, like, it was a real challenge

for him coming out when he did. Definitely. Definitely true. And yet, like, worked a lot within that sort of realm. You know, he's in that movie, another country in, like, the early 80s, is in a bunch of sort of, like, British stuff throughout the 80s, sort of becomes Madonna's best friend for a while, for a little bit there in the 90s. Obviously, my best friend's wedding in 97 kicks him up to a totally other level and then has maybe a couple years worth of a run in like costume dramas and like ideal husband and midsummer night's dream and all that sort of stuff. And then by the time, like, we did stage beauty on this podcast recently, and that's 04.

And by that point, he was already playing like kitsy, cameos where he's like King Charles the second in that and it's just like oh like we're already sort of there by that he has an uncredited cameo as Christopher Marlowe in Shakespeare in love which I absolutely forgot about so I feel

like I do remember him being in Shakespeare in love but I didn't remember that it was as Marlow that's interesting. According to a Wikipedia is allegedly uncredited. I mean he's got Shrek money so it's possible but I don't know he's got Eddie Murphy's Shrek money but he's been in some Shrek's so hopefully that

helps there. Listen. Bring him back for Shrek 5. It could be happening. I didn't remember he was in Napoleon last year. Playing Arthur Wellesley, the first Duke of Wellington. I don't remember a ton about Napoleon. There's a lot of guys in that movie, and I don't remember a lot of them.

I'll agree with you there. They will never forget the exploding horses of Napoleon. He was also on an episode of Emily in Paris. So, Rupert everyone's getting work. I don't get him in my life. Have either one of you ever seen the St. Trinian's movies at all? No. Is that the boarding school?

Yes. I always see them show up when I'm researching for Cinematrix because so many people were in them. Like Gemma Arderton and Juno Temple and Stephen Fry and Toby Jones and Lena Hetty and Rupert, of course, and just like lots and lots and lots of people. I do remember Gemma Ardarton becoming famous and everyone being like, people know her. from this thing. Jody Whitaker's in those things. Yeah.

Bishop Barton is in one of them. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Wow. Oh, he's Prince Charming in the Shrek movies. Yeah. I don't remember anything about that, but I hope that it's built to him.

Yeah, he just sort of does not, he's, you know, tasked with playing a stroke victim in my policeman and just sort of sits there looking pained and miserable. and gets the end credit. Yeah. Linus Roach doesn't really get much else to do, though, as the old Tom. No, nothing really. Linus Roach, who I know mostly from his performance as the villain in Mandy, a movie that people... Oh, that's interesting. In love with on the internet, Mandy.

I've always liked Linus Roach. Linus Roach, back in the day, was in a movie called Priest in 1994, where he is an Antonio Bird movie, where he plays a, I believe he was a gay priest. I think that was the sort of crux of it. He's on fellow travelers. Oh, yeah. Like, yes. Like, he shows up kind of in a ton of stuff.

He was on Law & Order briefly for a while. I remember him as a critical role in the Julianne Moore science fiction movie The Forgotten, the one where Alphrey Woodard gets sucked up into the sky in the greatest scene in cinema history. I've always liked Linus Roach, actually. Like, for an actor who's never really gotten singled out in any kind of significant way, I've always liked Linus Roach. I don't know. I think about him, but he is Thomas Wayne in Batman McIns. He is Christopher Nolan's Batman's dad.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, exactly, right. And then Gina McKee, always happy to see her when she shows up, just like the baseline for her is very good, solid actor. Gina McKee, and in the loop, is so, for. In The Loop in general is so fucking funny. But when, because like, in The Loop is such a movie about how, like, shit runs downhill because, like, Peter Capaldi is so mean to her every time they have an interaction where he calls her, like, woman from the crying game and whatnot. And then, like, but then she's super mean to, like, the main sort of, like, little staffer guy, the one who cheats on his girlfriend. And it's just, it's a perfect movie. It's so fucking funny.

I love it so much. Yeah. Maybe that's what I'll watch to get myself through this era of awful politics. God, to be like, oh, the Bush era also inspired some absolute nonsense. But, like, in the loop feels like such a, like a wild parody when it came out. And now you're just like, oh, yeah, that's just what it is now. Yeah. Anything else we want to sort of bring up?

I'm trying to delve into my notes and see. We mentioned Ron Nye-Swaner at the beginning of the episode. We didn't really talk about director Michael Grandage, who is famous for running. The Donmar Warehouse for a decade. The probably biggest productions to come out of that, and then got Broadway transfers were Frost Nixon and Red. He also directed this movie that I'm always curious about because it's supposedly terrible,

but it has a lot of famous people in it, and no one knows about it, called Genius with, I believe, Colin Firth, Jude Law, Laura Linney, and Nicole Kidman. Oh, one of the many Colin Firth, Nicole Kidman movies that nobody saw. Because weren't they also the Railway Man? Yes, we should do an episode on the Railway Man. Genius, not the like that Geo series about various important people.

Different one, different than that. I feel like I might have seen Genius actually in theaters with former guest Nick Davis. I think that is a possible thing that happened and I don't remember anything about it. It's about a book editor. Like how does anyone assume that was cinematic? It's so boring. I remember it being so boring. Can we also give a shout out to, and I don't know the actress's name, actually, the lesbian friend of Marion, who after Marion sort of talks about, you know, wanting to get Patrick away from Tom, and she's like, listen, you might know, you don't even get it.

you don't even get it i maybe this person you know you're talking to right now has a long-term gay relationship and shut up oh she was great i love me about her and patrick just getting out of fucking yeah that's a friend that patrick could have like that what she would have been a good friend to patrick you know what patrick needed a good yeah let her marry tom she doesn't want to sleep with it patrick does she'd like yeah mind their own business exactly exactly all right um An ensemble, well, the whole ensemble was awarded for TIF's acting prize. They do their, like, tribute awards. Now, here's the thing.

This sounds, you know. Fake. Fake and public relationship. Yeah. But here's the history since it started with 2019. Rich, long history. 2019 was Walking Phoenix for Joker, Merrill Street for the laundrom. Right away, you're.

You've lost me, right? Yes, but, but if they want to be an Oscar predictor, they got it right. Oh, no, I mostly mean Meryl. Like, Joaquin Phoenix and the Joker, whatever. Like, I, you know I love Meryl, but like Meryl and the laundromat is maybe not, maybe no choice. I never saw the laundromat. You're fine.

For as, for as... 2020, Anthony Hopkins for the father, Kate Winslett for Emma. Speaking of shitty beaches. In 2021, Jessica Chastain, the eyes of Tammy Fay and Benedict Cumberbatch for the power of the dog and the electrical life of Louis Wayne, not a bad movie. Yeah, no, pretty good movie. 2020, Brendan Fraser for the whale, and then the ensemble of my policemen. That's such a cop-out.

That's Harry Styles being like, I won't take this by myself. You have to make everyone else do it or the studio, like, whatever. Like, his approach of doing it. I think it would have looked worse if they had just given it to Harry. It would have, but like, they're not giving it to ensembles for basically anything else. It's just them being like, we'll take Harry Styles and whatever it takes. Right, right. Yeah.

That's probably true, yeah. The next year, they start doing, like, not technically listing the movie, but these are people who are showing up with, like, that movie at the festival. So it's Coleman Domingo for Sing Sing, and Vicky Creeps for The Dead Don't Hurd. Well, Coleman Domingo also had Rustin at that, at that Tiff, so it would have been. Yes, but it's during the strike, and Sing Sing was independent. Oh, that makes sense. Like, he goes to that Tiff, shows up for Sing Sing, and.

I forgot about that. Couldn't. And then this year, it's Amy Adams for Nightbitch and Jarrell Jerome for Unstoppable. He's not doing that. Jarel Jerome, good actor, but like, Jarel Jerome, a very good actor. I did not see Unstoppable. I just don't have any, everything I see about that movie, I'm just like, oh, it seems like a slog.

I didn't like it that much, but he is good in it. I have the hair. I have made, like, there were like 15 sports movies that. I have made my sports movie selection this year, and it is the fire. inside, which I think is a very solid little sports movie, and there we have it. I'm trying to get rid of the hiccups. So the ensemble of my policeman getting this prize is one of the more

eyebrow raising of this awards history, very short history. But I would argue that it's a reputable history. They do a good job. Minus Merrill Street. Some years. I mean, as with all of these things, your Santa Barbara Film Festival, and your Palm Springs Film Festivals and your, you know, these prizes that are very sort of curated to be a, you know, feather in the cap of somebody's awards campaign. They are mostly just sort of, you know, their public relations events, but there are ways

to do that sort of that make you look prescient and there are ways to do that that make you look like

the Hollywood foreign press and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose so there we go should we

move on to the IMDB game yeah why don't we Joe why don't you explain the IMDB game to our list sure every week

we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress

and then we tried and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for if any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits. We mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release

years as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Katie, Katie. Okay, hello. As the guest, you get to call the shots. I know what I want to give, so I can go ahead and give first. And I know you guys are maniac, so I picked a hard one So I'm going to be mean to Chris to start And I will give to Chris So Chris will then give to me And I will give to Katie Sounds perfect

All right So I went the Michael Grandage route Because he has directed a lot of famous people And a lot of plays And he directed a production of Hamlet That was on Broadway I have no memory of this It was while I was living in New York

He starred Jude Law And also featured as Ophelia Guguibatha Raw So Chris I'm giving you. Nice. Unfortunately, I do have to guess Beauty and the Beast. You would be correct to guess Beauty and the Beast.

Wow. I still remember her being kind of good in that, like, as was as much as good as a warning you can use. She's the feather duster. Yeah, the feather duster. Plumet. She has a name, turns out. She sings in it too, right? Yeah.

That sounds right. She definitely sings in Beyond the Lights, which I will get. Ding, ding, ding, that is also on there. There you go. Miss Sloan. No, Ms. Sloan is not on there. What a good... I like that guest.

I need to see Miss Stevens or Miss Sloan so I can stop confusing the two of them. To all the Miss Sloan is yummy trash. His Stevens, Miss Sloan, Miss Peregrant's home for peculiar children, that'll just be a marathon for you. I believe. I believe she's the wife in concussion. She is.

Holy shit. What a great guess. Dang. Yes. Three. So you have one left. Um, I guess beyond the lights. The thing is, she's in a ton of movies.

But I'm going to skew towards the last thing on her known for is something that she is like top build for. So I'm going to say Bell. That is correct. Good. Yeah. Very good. I am not sure I would have remembered that she was in concussion at all. No, I would not have.

That's a very good one. We did an episode on concussion. We definitely did, and I still wouldn't remember it. So there we go. It's funny that she was in concussion and also on her IMDB is a movie called Tell the Truth. Get out of here. I'm sorry, called the whole truth, not tell the truth. It's close enough.

That would have been very funny. Tell the truth. Oh, boy. All right. Listen, I am not going to pretend that I was not high on my own supply with the snowman jokes throughout the entirety of watching this movie for whatever reason. So I went into the cast of the snowman. Mr. Police, I will give you all the clues for the snowman cast member Val Kilmer. Oh, boy.

Did you know about Kilmer's in the note? No, I didn't. Not a bit. Did not know that. Okay. Tombstone? Incorrect. Get the fuck out of here.

Wow. I'm so sorry. His best performance. He should have been an Oscar nominee for that. Okay. Studious performance in all of cinema. Kiss, kiss, bang, bang. Kiss, kiss, bang is correct.

All right. Top Gun. Top Gun is incorrect. What? The look on show's face, listeners. I don't love it. I don't love it. I don't love this.

All right. All right. So, Mr. Policeman, this is how we give you all the clues. Your years are 1988, 1998, 1991, and 1997. Okay. Is 97 like the ghost in the darkness or something like that? No, but that would be awesome if it was. I feel like that movie was around that year.

Is it's too late? I think 97 is too late for the island of Dr. Moreau. 1991 and 1988? Correct. Is 88 too late for top secret? It is not top secret. Okay. I think you're going to get there.

You're going to get there. Is 91 too early for Thunderheart? It is not Thunderheart. God. This is rough. Oh, 91's got to be the Doors. It's the doors. Duh.

Okay. All right. 97. Is 97 the saint? It is the saint. The saint is a bad movie. I watched that. Bad movie.

Pretty bad movie. It should not be a bad movie. It should be very fun, and it is not very fun. 88, Val Kilmer. It's not top gun. It's not top secret. It's Willow. It's Willow.

I watched Willow so many times when I was a kid. I should have gotten that. I don't think I knew he was in Willow. Yeah, he's like the hom solo of Willow. Okay, that tracks. His wife at the time was also in Willow. She was the Princess Leia essentially if we're tracking that. Okay, all right.

That was hard. Val Kilmer has a hard IMDB game, everybody. Toppen not being on, they really throws her for a loop. Yes, truly. Okay. Katie, for you, I went the Ron Niswanner route. Ron Niswana, among other things, wrote, what was his exact role with this? Was a co-producer and screenwriter for a TV movie on Showtime at the time called Soldiers Girl,

which was nominated for a bunch of Golden Globes that Chris and I just talked about when we did the 2000. One of the two stars who was nominated for a Golden Globe for that film was Lee Pace. The awesome betcha. Katie, if I showed you the screenshot of Lee Pace's hair from this golden globes, you would absolutely lose your mind. Is that why you keep guessing Lee Pace? Is that why this is that way he was on your mind for our Dunkirk? Yeah, Chris kept guessing Lee Pace. So yes.

Yes. Okay. So I have Lee Pace. I should say. Two films, two TV show. Okay. Is one of those TV shows pushing daisies? It's weirdly not, which is the craziest thing.

God. Yes. Oh, all right. Now I'm going to struggle a lot more because I know that he has made other TV shows that are less on my brain. Is one of them the first Hobbit movie? No, and I probably would have guessed that too. Oh, Jesus Christ. So you get years.

You won't tell me there's no Hobbit movies. Okay. There are no Hobbit movies, I'll just say that. Your years for the films are 2014 and 2022. And then for the TV shows, there's one that runs from 2014 to 2017 and one that runs from 2021 to 2023. Oh, like very recent. Is he on foundation? Is that one?

He is on foundation. I cannot believe foundation. It's on anyone's known for it. It's because of all of those, like, shots of, like, his, like, abs that, uh, he is on. got circulated around. I watched two episodes of that show. I don't remember Annie Abbs being part of that. That's very frustrating.

2414 is Guardians of the Galaxy? Yes. Okay. I knew he was in a Marvel as an alien. The early example of people hopping, not an early example, I feel like the tipping point for the Marvel doesn't have any good villains.

Uh-huh. Went around. Yeah, because I feel like it was very exciting that he was going to be in this movie. People were excited for Lee Pace, and then they sort of cake. on a bunch of makeup on top of him and then you couldn't see him at all.

And yeah. Yeah. And you said 2022 was the other one? Yes. Is the other movie? Yes. Oh, because 2022 is the year that don't worry, darling, and my policeman came out.

So I feel like I have been thinking about them and not really remembering anything he could have been in. Okay, hang on. Let me think about the TV show. TV show was 2014 to 2017. yes you said right it was a show that was initially not very well liked and then became like a sort of a cult hit and like the people who love that show really love that show excellent show yeah is it a streaming show no no is it a network show

no it's cable cable HBO oh it's um uh um um um um the one in text where they're making computers not burned down the house. What the hell is it called? Halt and catch fire. Halt and catch fire, exactly. Yes. Excellent program.

All four of those leads are incredible on that show. I love that show. What a fascinating period, because that's an AMC show, right? One of the most interesting narratives for a show in that it starts off being about Scoot McNary and Lee Pace and they pivot from season one to season two and have it be mostly about.

about Carrie Bichet and McKenzie Davis's characters for like the next two seasons or next three seasons. And it completely revitalizes that show and completely sort of like unlocks that show's potential. It's kind of amazing. And now when we make everything into a 10 episode limited series, we never give ourselves time to do any of that. Yeah, exactly. All right. If I watched that show, I could have cured my Scoot McNary faceblind this much earlier. I do kind of think that that show is foundational for me loving Scoot McNair.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, yes. I would imagine so. Okay. So, the 2022 movie, I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't seen it. So it's small-ish? Or have I not seen it because it's some giant-ass movie that I don't care about? It's not giant-ass, but it got like a wide release. Okay. You've definitely, like, you've definitely heard about it. You've heard of it. The director of it has a big movie in this award season.

Okay. A big movie in this award season So it's not a Denny Villan of It's uh So someone who had a movie out two years ago And now has a big movie out here already again Is the new movie at all similar to this movie? Not really, yeah

Same distributor Okay Is it an A24 movie? Yes It is an A24 movie Okay I assume it's not Greg Queedar, the director of Sing Sing. No.

And Osferatu is a focus movie. Is it Vox Lux? No, that's too early. It's not breeding orbit. I need another hit, I think. I feel like we keep forgetting that this movie is still to come because there's so many other A24 thing. Is it Alina Rain? Is it Body's Body?

Bodies, Bodies, bodies, bodies. I have not seen Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. That is not a movie that seems like it is for me. I mean, I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it. Like, I don't think you'll have a bad time with Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. Yeah. I didn't have a hate it. It's just one of those. And like, that's true. I have, now that I finally watched Bottoms, I have become much more interested in Rachel's. She's very funny. She's very funny. And did you, are you an industry person? I have watched a little. The girl from industry is in it. and people seem to like her. The Amy Winehouse girl? The other one. Mahala.

Mahala. Yes. Yeah, maybe I'll see Potties, body, spotty. That does seem like going back to the Gen Z millennial things. I was like, oh, that movie is too young for me. But Lee Pace is, he's a grown-up. He's a grown-up. He's sort of the role he plays.

It's like, oh, he's the adult. Yeah, he's like the 40-year-old dating 19-year-old. It is funny that Lee Pate, like, Pushing Daisies was, what, 20 years ago at this point? And Lee Pace has just been kind of like cuss. of big things. Well, and like that Soldier's Girl nomination came even before that. You know what I mean? Like he was... Yeah, hang on. Now I'm going to look up his

his look at the Golden House in 2003. You guys just have to send me the screenshots if not. Yeah. I was trying not to belabor that too much because it was not feeling confident. Oh, he has Justin Bieber hair. Oh, God. We all had that hair in 2003. I mean, yes.

Oh, God. I forgot that. It's like Matthew McFadion's hair in Pride and Prejudice also. Like, there's just so much of it. Yeah, yeah, you're totally right. What a, what a cutie. Yeah, it's true. And starred in that movie opposite, Troy Garrity, who was at that Golden Globes with his mom, Jane Fonda. Wow.

Wow. So there was that. All right. Friends, I think that's our episode. If you want more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr. at this head oscarbuzz. Tumblr.com. Theoretically, you could follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore buzz.

Instagram. Definitely follow us on Instagram at this head Oscar buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this is Oscar buzz. We are in the midst of reconfiguring our social media strategy. And when we come out the other end with a new normal, we will announce that. Maybe we'll just start going hard on Instagram.

Well, Instagram's kind of great for us. We'll figure it up. I've been working on a version of that. I looked you guys up on Instagram to try to find the hints about what the episode really means. Chris does get to go ham with the hints on Instagram. I never, I could not figure out what my policeman clue was supposed to mean at all. So I don't even remember what I posted. I don't remember either.

But yeah, I had, because I was not looking at Twitter. So that was where I could choose to look at it. So thank you for the Instagram. Tell our listeners where they can find you though, Katie. Well, the last time you heard me on this podcast, I had a. different job. And now I work somewhere else. I am writing the prestige junkie newsletter at the Hale yeah. And also hosting the prestige junk podcast where both of you have been on and will be again. So you can subscribe there. The newsletter is free. The inkler is a paid subscription.

But my newsletter is free as is the podcast. So take advantage. I am pretty much only on blue sky at Katie Rich as well as Letterbox, same name. And then I have my professional Instagram, which I'm still figuring out to use is at Katie Rich Talking. I'm also on the Fighting in the World War Room podcast. I'm always bad about plugging it. But we have that one as well. Beloved podcast, good people on there. I will as ever eagerly await your eventual best of the year episode, your top ten's episode, which is always a fun one.

One of the year. I love it so much. The only top ten I make. Can't wait for the curve balls. Joe. Tell the folks where to find you. I'm making another run at Blue Sky. I feel like we're in the middle.

of a second wave of blue sky maybe this time it'll be fun question mark we got to get news we got to get up to the minute it's not it's not it's not quite where we needed to be but you know what it's it's a work in progress the uptake and engagement I'm getting on blue sky is remarkable like every time I open it I've got 30 something I've realized I don't I don't want that necessarily that much engagement well I am I'm considering following few people than I have This is what I've come to realize is that like my Twitter

experience had become so finely tuned and manicured that when I jumped to blue sky where I hadn't manicured it at all it was like I was letting in all the colors in again and I was just like too much too much

pushback we'll figure it out I'll figure it out blue sky and letterbox both at Joe Reed read spelled REID but most importantly you should

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Yes! I did not work there when the cover was made. I have no secrets there. God's blazing. We went to eBay. I went to eBay. I bought copies of the magazine. I sent them out. It's going to be very fun. I'm sitting on my desk for me. I'm so excited. So again, $5 a month. Go subscribe. You will not regret it. It's three episodes a month covering the films of Demi Moore. And we're having a blast. So that is Patreon.com slash Demi Pod. That's Patreon.com slash D-E-M-I-P-O-D. And you can find me on Blue Sky and Letterbox at Crispy File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork,

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more buzz and happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. Bye.