This Had Oscar Buzz - 321 – Ben Is Back

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Guess who’s back in the house?! We finally close the loop on the 2018 troubled son trifecta of films with Ben is Back, a grim Christmas tale of a family in the throws of addiction recovery. Lucas Hedges stars as the titular Ben, who returns home from a recovery center for the holiday, and against … Continue reading "321 – Ben Is Back"

Well, award season came in like a wrecking ball. Did it not? It did. You say that because Miley Cyrus is thoroughly in the race for the original song for The Last Showgirl, a movie that is not good. The movie that's not good, but a song is pretty good. So I'll take it. Yeah, Golden Globe nominations were Monday and then Critics Choice nominations were Thursday. And not only are those two of the, I refuse to call the Critics' Choice a pillar. of award season. But what I will say is, for movie fantasy league purposes, they offer probably the biggest bounty of points, certainly so far, certainly like, you know, to date. There's just a lot of points available on those two days. And a lot of those points went to, I would say, the handful of

maybe five films that have emerged as sort of award season MVP so far. You've got your Amelia Perez, you've got your wicked, you've got your brutalist, you've got your, um, Anora. Nora. And then what would we say? Is the fifth the substance? The fifth, honestly, might be the substance. Did you say wicked? Yeah, yes.

I do wish that I had, uh... Conclave, I think, is your fifth. And then, like, substance is kind of like... Because Conclave had a good day, both with Globes and Critics' Choice. Led Critic's Choice, along with Wicked, uh, which you would know, not only if you've been following the news, but if you've, listen to our basically daily updates over at the Patreon. We've become a daily podcast on the Patreon where we're just like updating award season day by day. I should have started them by

being like, I'm Michael Barbaro and blah, blah, blah, blah. Welcome to the daily. Yes. So definitely highly recommend you go check that out and join the Patreon if you're not already on the Patreon. But as far as the Fantasy League goes, yes. So we have now sort of officially turned the corner from not turn the corner from box office season actually because like box office is still kind of rip roaring we still got Christmas box office coming and we still have Christmas box office coming um but like even still like it feels like the box office is bracing for it too because this is this is not the most exciting box office week it's still Moana 2 and wicked churning out good money but you're not going to be getting your points there for wicked you're going

to be getting your points for wicked with the awards from past week if you were hoping that Craven the Hunter would overperform, bad news. If you were hoping that the war for Rohirim, Lord of the Rings animated movie was going to overperform, bad news for you. Bad news for you. But Moana and Wicked and Gladiator is, you know, for a movie that's running a solid, you know, fourth-ish place for the last few weeks, Gladiator is still moving units. It's hard to really gauge big pictures. picture for Gladiator 2. We know it's kind of falling out in awards, but in terms of box office, it's going to be kind of over the Christmas holiday clawing its way to the original

movie's box office, but I think it'll still happen. I think it'll get there. I think it'll get there. And like with a lot more competition, I feel like, than, you know, in the original context. So this is good. This is good for everybody. Overall box office is just doing very, very well. So, but yeah, I think right now, if you had been waiting with your roster full of Amelia Perez and, and conclave and whatnot for the points to start rolling in, good news, the points have started rolling in. And as a result, our leaderboard has been flip-flopperuni as the last few weeks. Right now, as I look at it, as updated as of December 12th, first place sits August H

with a roster that includes a box office stuff like, you know, Wicked. But, like, well, Wicked's kind of the perfect song. Wicked's in an awards player, too. I think Wicked's going to be the point leader this season. And then, Anora, the brutalist,

A Real Pain, Challenger's, even down to a different man, and I saw the TV glow, all things that have been performing well in award season. Second place is a rock. called a real wicked conclave, calling the shot of two of this award season's big players. And as I always approve of, if you're going to name check movies from this season in, you know, in your team. And also the city of Boston.

And all the city of Boston. Right. A real wicked conclave. A wicked and conclave on that roster plus a nora, plus a real pain. Plus the brutalist. actually honestly this is like Wicked is straddling the line obviously as we said but like everything else is very solidly awardsy

so we have really in terms of the top of the leaderboard kind of broken free from the chokehold that the I drafted Venom and Smile 2 sort of contingent so I'm happy that those teams got their moment in the sun early on but I think those days have passed the days of Smile 2 and Venom

being in the rosters of teams at the top of the charts has probably passed. We'll see what effect Sonic has coming up. Sonic is going to have, I think, something to say about the direction of the current climate in which we're living or something to say about the game. Something to say about the outcome of the game. Here's the other thing I want to mention. I just clicked over into the podcast division because we are doing a sort of of mini league for the podcasts. And up until this point, the We Hate Movies podcast had like

four, like it's four co-hosts all in the top five or six of the standings. And now the keep it crew have kind of infiltrated. Megan Petzel is currently in first place. Kennedy Hill is in third place. Ira Madison is lurking around there as well, ready to make a move. So there's A lot going on. Also, our pal, Clay Keller, quietly sneaking up into fourth place in the podcast division. We love it.

We love it. Past guests like David Sims and Richard Lawson, also lurking up there. Chris, you are closer to... I'm like at the middle of the pack. You're pretty middle of the pack. Yeah, you're middle of the pack, which is good.

It's our dear pal, Katie, Rich, who is fighting for her life at the bottom of the standings right now. Katie had a rough-go-office. Katie and I both drafted on becoming a guinea fowl, if I'm correct, movies that will earn us no points beyond Rotten Tomatoes. Right. The good news for Katie is the Critics' Choice brought a lot of nominations for both Amelia Perez and Dune Part 2.

But yeah, Katie picking on becoming a guinea fowl and the Outrun, it's kind of an anchor. on her team this far. But you know what? We love all our podcasters in the podcasters league. And just for a very quick shout out to the Gary's. We don't want to let a chance go by without shouting out who's leading the Gary's League. Oh, a real wicked conclave is a Garyator. So look at that. I knew one of us was with that name. Look at that. And then Monstro Elizabeth Shoe is in the second place. So I love it. I thought about Monstro Elizabeth Shoe multiple times this week and just giggled to myself. So claps to you, Monster Elizabeth Shoe. Exactly. All right. So if you want to go check out

where you are in the standing, if you want to go check out points allocations or prizes, maybe you're starting to have visions of prizes dancing in your head this Christmas. So check it out at vulture.com slash movies dash league. And we will be back next week with yet another update. I just want to say I'm back and I feel sorry for these girls on to the Bend is Back episode. I'm from Canada water.

Dick Poop. Oh my god, I can't believe it. I see you, is it you? Is that Ben? Did you see? He's gained some weight and he's got the story. He's got the sparkle back in his eyes. He's clearly doing him better.

Then why are you hiding everything? We said we weren't going to do this again. Remember? I agree that if it weren't Christmas. You get a day. This time tomorrow you are back in sober living. Yeah, okay. You do not leave my sight ever.

Because for the next 24 hours, you are mine, all mine. Got it? I got it. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's willing to go halfsees with Beth Graham. on a winning lottery ticket. Every week on this had Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my wayward son who's back from something. Chris File, hello, Chris. Not this intro. Don't get the listeners a reason for me to call you daddy or something. No, oh, God. Don't do it. You did it. You walked us right into it.

I'm your host, Joe Reed, and I am here as always with my thing I've kept stashed in the attic all these months, Chris Foyle. With your soloist at the Christmas pageant. Okay, okay. With my person who... Who am I, if not identifying with Catherine Newton at all times. Person who's altering Christmas Eve outfits up until the moment. we leave the house. Did that not stress you out when Julia Roberts is like pinning like pinning Lucas Hedges's shirt like as they're getting ready to leave the house for Christmas Eve Mass? Like it's it's so late in the game here. Like just just you know just let them wear

the shirt. They got derailed on the shopping trip. They did. They did. Obviously I know you've seen this movie before. Sometimes I lead off the podcast by asking because we saw it together. One of my more infamous, uh, TIF moments where, uh, still so mad at you. Lucas Hedges shows up on screen and I leaned over and I said, that's Ben. And you can I tell you what made me really, really mad at you? Like, just took me back to how mad at you I was for that is what we've neglected to tell when we constantly retell this story to our listeners is, yes, Joe and I are sitting next to each other for this movie. He leans over to me the second Lucas Hedges shows up and says that's Ben

but like has the perfect amount of pause like I think he's going to say something real to me and not something menacing and so I'm angry and then like 30 seconds later the kids in the movie say is that Ben and I wanted to throw up my arms

and leave the theater because I was in such a rage at Joe we have our fun we have our fun you have your fun I do have your fun I do have my fun. In fact, I do. That is my right. This is my right as a gay person to have my fun.

You know, we have to have our fun with this movie because got to say, bummer town movie. It's a bummer. Here's the thing also, though. And I liked it the first time I saw it. I've really liked it this time. I think this is a really good movie. And I think it has two really, really good performances in it. And I think it has two really good performances. I think this movie has functional problems. But this is a, this is a movie I don't really begrudge anything. Yeah. I think Peter Hedges is maybe respectfully out of his depth with what he's trying to do, but I respect what this movie's trying to do. I think I take a different angle on it. I think it takes a lot to get it to do the thing it's trying to do.

Peter Hedges is not a, not really anuteur, not really a visionary as a filmmaker. But I do feel like he is in the right depth with this movie, if only because I spent a little bit of time thinking about a movie like Heaven Knows What while I watched this movie, which is a more sort of harrowing, intense, many would say, has more of a visual stamp on it, has more of an auturist stamp on it. This is the Softie Brothers movie that they did before, Good Time, which is about heroin addicts and Caleb Landry Jones is in it. And I can't remember the name of the lead actress who is in it. But that is a movie that I think, and that's not a movie that everybody loves, but I think a lot of people really gave that movie a lot of credit for being sort of unsparing and tough to watch and sort of appropriate. appropriately nightmarish about drug addiction and about opiate addiction specifically. I think what Peter Hedges does with Ben is back is he gives you the Normy version of it, which I think is a kind of deeply valuable perspective on it.

I know this movie got dinged a lot for being like yet another white boy addiction movie because it came around the exact same time as Beautiful Boy and a few other movies. But I feel like what's so, you know, in its own way, harrowing about Ben is Back is the sort of everyday futility of it. The everyday sort of around every turn there's a landmine. Around every turn, there's a reflection of, There's this nightmare that won't ever end. And I think a movie that is more artistic about it, that is more a tourist about it, for lack of a better term, I think you risk presenting a world that the audience can feel a little more distant from and a little more separate from.

And I think one of the advantages of having a very kind of quotidian filmmaker like Peter Hedges, and I may not be using that word correctly because that word has always sort of plagued me. It's Christmas time. It's Christmas time. We're generous about, you know. But I think one of the advantages of having a filmmaker like Peter Hedges make this movie is it sort of lands it right in your living room. You know what I mean? For a lot of people.

I know this is not everybody's experience. I know assuming a sort of like white middle class audience for a movie is not a thing you want to do. But I also feel like this is probably a movie that will land for a lot of people who would not normally see something like heaven knows what. Or would be sort of like so, you know, feel so outside of the sphere of something more harrowing and intense that they can just be like, well, that's for other people. I still feel like that audience is going to, whether this movie is heaven knows what or it's Ben is back, I still think that audience doesn't want to touch it. They're like, oh, no, too depressing, don't want to touch it, don't want to go there. Though, I mean, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and I respect this movie for approaching it in that way, where I think it's struggle. is

I think it's kind of this big ask for a filmmaker like Peter Hedges to develop this kind of character-based melodrama about the opioid epidemic and opioid epidemic and what families go through when they have a loved one who is addicted

in a very real concise way that anybody can understand whether or not they know a loved one who's been touched by this. But there is a bifurcation of this movie. And like kind of strangely, when I was reviewing, like, reviews and letterbox logs, especially, you saw this divide of people saying, first half of the movie is better. Second half of the movie is better. And I don't think this movie handles being two halves of one movie.

And I do kind of think the thrust behind this movie is we're going to make a melodrama about the opioid epidemic, but it's also going to be a thriller. It's basically going to put you in the place of a family member who is in one of those early events of trying to find and prevent their loved one from, you know, backsliving. From backsliding or from, you know, from harming themselves, you know, where you're on this kind of wild goose chase to prevent this from happening. Yeah. And it's really dropped in in that way. I don't think this movie strikes the balance quite so well. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you there. I feel, I do feel like once the movie becomes this kind of, and I, this sounds more of an insult, but this is just because I can.

can't think of another reference off the top of my head once it sort of becomes adventures and babysitting a little bit where it's sort of this like harrowing long night of the soul where you have to sort of like go out into the city and accomplish there's a you know there's a task you have to accomplish but you're sort of beset on all sides by um landmines and enemies um it does become a little plotier than it probably um that i probably would want it to be I don't know if it sticks the landing and sort of it ends so abruptly, which I feel like is almost like Peter Hedges giving a sop to the artsy-fartsy community being like, all right, well, I'm going to end it on this kind of, not cliffhanger, exactly,

but you don't get any falling action, right? You don't get any day newmah or anything like that. Which to me, you know, that ending specifically, the abruptness of it tells me the whole thing is about this dark night of the soul journey. You know, it's about that 24 hours or even less than 24 hours of, you know, driving around the city trying to find your child. And yet even, you know, considering all of that, I do. feel like there is so much good and well-observed stuff in the first half of the movie. And then the second half of the movie, I am fully willing to sort of just, like, give myself over to Julia Roberts and Lucas Hedges, who I think are both giving such good performances.

Yeah, I think this is such good work. Regardless of the degree to which you think this movie works. I think it does work that much because of the performances. Even if I think you're falling on the extreme negative of this movie, I think anyone would be inclined to say the way that this movie works is through its performances. Yeah, yeah. Because there's also, you know, it's trying to fit in a lot of, you know, various different stages that someone might go through with a loved one in addiction.

And a lot of those are dealt very broadly. you know, Julia has a lot of big moments in this movie that are, you know, maybe more broad than what is realistic. And this movie is mostly, I think, going for realism. And that I'm kind of okay with because of the performances. You know, there's an understatedness even though it's like big emotions and, you know, big declarative statements that are being made because the performances are kind of underplaying some of it, you know, working against this big, being a movie of the week, you know. I saw that complaint a few times, that this is a lifetime movie, that this is a TV movie level. And I can't remember what, there was another movie we've done semi-recently where I feel like that was also, or maybe that maybe I'm thinking of a Demi movie that I've done recently, where the complaint was that it felt like a TV movie. And I'm just like, my policeman, maybe.

No, it wasn't that recent. It was probably a little bit further back. Could be Labor Day. I remember thinking Labor Day maybe was, but Labor Day I feel like earned the pejorative. I feel like sometimes people are a little too free to sort of like throw around that term of like. Especially because that thing that they're trying to compare it to pejoratively doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't exist anymore. And when it did like the, it's watch a TV movie sometimes.

Watch like a TV movie from the 90s and then try and make that complaint. really, really kind of can't. We should go, we should get past the plot description, though, before we talk about it anymore, because I want to talk about, you know, some of the storytelling choices, you know, the sort of the frame of it, and I want to get, you know, past the plot. But first, I'm going to have you tell our listeners why they should join our Patreon. Why should you do it? because it's more of us.

You're here. You like and enjoy listening to us. Guess what? For $5 a month, you can do even more listening to these two gay guys, talk about movies and awards, et cetera. Over on our Patreon, this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. What are you going to be getting over there? Well, this season, we've added an extra bonus where we're going to be doing drop-in episodes

with news updates. What awards are happening so far? what critics prizes have been given out, what nominations from precursors have been out. We're going to be dropping those in on a regular basis, but then you're going to get two scheduled episodes every month, the first of which we call an exception. This comes on the first Friday of every month, and this is going to be, you know, movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric but managed to score some nominations. Most recently, we've done Todd Haynes as far from heaven, which you'll also find

other movies like House of Gucci, Knives Out, Madonna's W.E., Vanilla Sky, The Lovely Bones, Pleasantville, these type of movies, you can hear us talk about it. Over there, we know that there have been movies that have gotten some nominations that people have wanted us to talk about, and guess what? You can. You got a whole year and a half-ish worth of episodes to go and listen to over there for our exceptions. The third Friday of every month. we're going to give you what we call an excursion. These are deep dives into Oscar ephemera we love to obsess about on this show. Things like EW. Fall Movie Previews, recapping old award shows.

Like most recently we did the 2003 Golden Globes. Heck yeah, we did. This month, we have a mailbag. Either this mailbag has just dropped or is about to drop based on when this episode is coming. but you'll find other conversations over there like Hollywood Reporter Roundtables. We also will have our now annual awards show for freaks called The Superlatives.

Can we just call it the award show for freaks? Can we just change it to that? It would be fun. I'd enjoy that. Maybe it should become an unwieldy name that this had Oscar buzz superlatives awards for freak sponsored by... Uh, uh, uh, uh,

Ghibi's journey, I'm still here. Jujubi's Journey I'm still here, is sponsored by Glade. Yeah. The Glad family of products. Perfect. Uh, go check out this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Indeed. Um, all right, we're going to be talking about the 2018 film Ben is back today, written and directed by Peter Hedges, if that name sounds familiar. He's the father of Lucas Hedges, who is one of the stars of this movie, along with Julia Roberts, Courtney B. Vance, Catherine Newton, Rachel Bay Jones, Michael Esper, David Zaldivar.

This is a roadside attractions movie that premiered at the Toronto Film Festival on September 8th, 2018, before opening, in limited release, I would imagine, on December 7th, 2018, on its opening weekend. Ralph Breaks the Internet was in its third week at the top of the box office. Other films in the box office top 10 that weekend include the Grinch, the animated version of the Grinch, that nobody that I or you know saw. Creed 2, which was in its third week. Fantastic Beasts, The Crimes of Grindelwald, which was in its fourth week, and Bohemian Rhapsody, which was in its sixth week. So really... What a shitty time at the movies. Nothing new.

Unless you're seeing Ralph Breaks the Internet. Just absolutely nothing new, people. What's going on? It's movie season, it's December. Ralph Breaks the Internet. So good. I like Ralph Breaks the Internet. Shout out to our former guest, Pamela Ribbon, for being one of the writers.

Oh, yeah, that's Pam Smith. Yeah. Other limited release debuts that weekend included Mary Queen of Scots and Vox Lux. Chris, I'm going to pull out my stopwatch. You are going to deliver a 60-second plot description, and we're all going to be very impressed by that. Are you ready to go? I'm going to try. Okay, Ben is back

from the mouth of Chris file and go. All right, so we're following the Burns family. Their eldest child, Ben, is currently in a rehab facility. He is only about two and a half months sober. He is an addict of

various opioids. He got addicted because he had a sports injury and of course the doctor was a quack and was like, take all these pills, there are no side effects, et cetera. He is returning home, breaking his rehab facility to visit his family because his mother tangentially said, My Christmas wish is to have my son home for Christmas. Anyway, he shows up and there's a lot of tension between his stepfather, his sister, and meanwhile, the mother, played by Julia Roberts, is trying to make all of this work.

This means that they have to go to the mall because he says he has to get. he has to get presents for his younger siblings. That means various people who didn't know that he was there, including his former drug partners, see him, and they all go to Christmas Mass. They go to an AA meeting, but when they come home from the Christmas Mass, they discover the home has been broken into

and they stole the dog, and Ben realizes, oh, these are people that I owe a debt to that have stolen the dog and they're trying to get to me, blah, blah. Meanwhile, mother and son, go on a car ride around the city to various previous drug sites that Ben has visited, and he, they basically are just looking for this dog. Eventually, he breaks away from his mom because he realizes that he has to go to this former drug lord, played by Michael Esper, and basically settle a debt in order to get the

dog home for the younger siblings and break some holly and holly is like trying to hunt him down everywhere including going to the police and saying please find my son and arrest him so that he doesn't do drugs meanwhile he does settle this debt they get the dog back and he is given drugs to uh you know break his sobriety and uh holly finds him through uh the daughter who set up all their phone so she can see everyone's location. And she threw Narcan that was given to her by the mother of Ben's former girlfriend who did pass away from drug addiction. And she saves Ben's life. The end, cut to black. All right. Any, want to take a wager at how over you were? 90 seconds over. You were 94 seconds over, in fact. Yes, you were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah. So lots of things. happen in this movie, the sort of moves into different kind of movements. I think we can sort of fairly say that. One of the things I like best about this movie is the fact that it is essentially 24 hours in a 24 hour window into this life. And you are able to, Hedges is able to convey a lot of backstory and sort of fill in. the blanks of this family's history without using things like flashbacks, which I think is really good. I think you get a really good sense of what this family dynamic is very quickly. Do you know what I mean? I think the relationships and the tensions in the family are made apparent

very quickly. I think a big part of that is that Courtney B. Vance and Catherine Newton are both very good in this movie. I think Catherine Newton manages to convey the sort of pain of the sibling who doesn't have a drug problem, whose life has also been sort of commandeered by all of this, who has been through so much who does not want to see, you know, her family sort of plunged into all this again, and who feels slighted and ignored. and, you know, resentful of everything that happens without having a scene where she goes, Mom, you've totally ignored me. And, you know, like, she doesn't have to have to really spell it out.

I think Courtney B. Vance, you get a couple of scenes. You get the scene where Holly sort of says to Ben, like, you wouldn't be here if it weren't for Neil, who is the Courtney B. Vance character, the subfather. You wouldn't, you know, he's, you know, he paid for your rehab. and, you know, all of this stuff. But I think in general, those relationships are made clear without a ton of sort of expository work like that. Yeah, I think as we get a lot of details throughout the entire movie, there's a lot of ways that movies like this can do it, like you mentioned, in an expository way that makes that dialogue feel very crunchy. but this does feel more natural than I think a lot of immediate comparisons for something like that.

One of the other things that I think this movie does fairly well is it sets up this thing at the beginning where Holly says you can stay but under my very strict conditions, which are essentially like you are not to leave my sight ever. You have to pass a drug test. You can't, you know, have your door closed ever. you, you know, I'm sleeping on the floor in your bedroom and, you know, you're never out of my sight. And what that does, not only, it doesn't only tether him to her, it tetheres her to him. And so once things go, even before things go wrong, I think she starts to sort of, she then gets those blanks filled in herself. She sees how many kind of, I've, you know, this term a couple of times already, but like landmines exist for him. You know, she, they run into the doctor who prescribed the medication at the mall. They, you know, they run into the Rachel Bay Jones character, who was the mother of his girlfriend who died at church. This is a very, this is a movie that has a good sense of like the ways in which you sort of can't escape community.

And, and when, when there is tragedy involved, like, then all of a sudden, you're just sort of, you keep getting whacked in the face by tragedy. But so much of this movie is about Holly sort of like realizing that like, oh, this is where Ben, you know, would go to get high. And this is the history teacher who he like exchanged sexually abused by, exchanged sexual favors for his drugs and whatnot. And she just sort of, you know, has to take this in. And she ends up, you know, she's not a character who sort of needed to learn a. lesson about her kid. I don't think this movie is about lessons. I don't think this movie is about teaching a parent, you know, how to best deal with this. I think she's a person who's

been dealing with this. You just sort of see how hard that is. But I also feel like it's a movie about her sort of, you know, understanding a little bit more just sort of the hell that her son was in beyond her house. Well, I think there's movies about, you know, the first time the walls come crashing down. You know, there's movies that are the stuff that we hear about has already happened. Yeah. And then there's movies that are about further in the future. Yes. Where either, you know, in the rare circumstance, everything's better. Yeah. Or in the more common circumstance that things get a lot worse, you know, where she's already fully burned and can't, you know, really allow him into her house, period. But I think this is a movie

specifically about that time where it is still really fresh, where she understands, yes, you have to be under my watch, but she can't see all of the cracks in how he can slip through and, like, eventually does. Yeah. Multiple times, sometimes where nothing goes wrong. And then sometimes where things almost go wrong or things ultimately do go very, very wrong, that he can slip away from her. And then you find out later in the movie that like, even when, you know, he gets, he has the drugs on him after the AA meeting and he says, well, the girl there gave him to me and I, and she gave him to me. And so now she can't do drugs and all this sort of stuff. And you find out later that that was a lie that he, you know, he found the drugs up in the attic. And then went to the length of like having the sister, having a sister come up in the attic and go look for it for him.

Like, you know, these sort of elaborate systems of lies to keep himself insulated. And all while it, you know, freely being like, you can't trust me. I'm not, I'm a drug addict, you know. So he's sort of like at odds with himself throughout this movie. Yeah. And that's a thing that I think. It's all about a family really settling into what these circumstances. and consequences mean moving forward, you know, he's learning that much about himself as they're

learning about him and what, you know, the reality of addiction will mean for their family for the rest of their lives. You know, it's one thing to be, like, told it and then to realize it, but then, like, that early stage of living it is something. Well, and then you see Rachel Bay Jones, who's, you know, a shell of a person. And when Julia goes to her house because Ben has taken the car and whatnot, and she sort of is apologetic. She has this line where she says, I was such a smug bitch. I never thought that I would need this when Rachel Bay Jones gives her the Narcan. And Rachel Bay Jones almost doesn't hear her.

She's not really... She doesn't need an apology. She's, you know, not even, to the degree to which she's angry at Holly and Ben, she also knows that that's not, you know, probably rational. But all she's, but she has this wallop of a thing where she's just like, you can't save him. But you'll hate yourself if you don't try. And, you know, what a devastating, you know, sort of thing to have to hear. This movie's anger is in the right place. Very much so. You know, you see, you know, her, she gets to say to the doctor that prescribed all of this irresponsibly to her son. She gets to say, I hope that you die in pain, basically. But there's no satisfaction to go. There's no satisfaction to it because he's got dementia.

So it's not, it's that line. It's also a level of, it's, it's, you know, the type of moment that only happens in a movie, so it makes it a little bit crunchier. But again, I think it's the performance that saves it, along with the scene where she takes into the cemetery and asks him, where do you want me to bury you? Like, that's, that's, that's very much a movie thing. Yes, it is. But Julia Roberts, being a movie star, manages to, like, knows how to make that scene work the best that it can. Yes. But there's also, as far as, as. this movie's anger and I think maybe making an audience who doesn't understand this type of circumstance understand how this really works in the real world. You have that scene where she tries to go get the Narcan replacement at that 24-hour facility and they're like, no, we can't give you this because we can't encourage irresponsible behavior. And it's the only resource that she has in her town to, you know, try to have something that could save her son's life. And yet, and yet later on.

And hours later, he goes and he gets, you know, the drug kit so that he can Overdust. Yeah. And, like, that is the reality of this circumstance. And I text you my little rage moment of, we're in a place right now where we, you know, want to have certain rage towards various methods that people. people can get drugs in this country, and yet there is no fucking outrage towards billionaires like the Sackler family that have made circumstances like this fictional family has to go through,

but many real families do have to go through. And nobody's out there saying, you know, that we should be locking up the Sackler family. I think that rage is valuable. Did you end up, I know, I know the answer to this before I even ask it, but did you see the Netflix series painkiller? the one with Uzoiduba who... No, I didn't. Which was very specifically

about the efforts to prosecute the Sackler family and while also telling the story of essentially how the Sacklers introduced OxyContin into the American marketplace and very sort of intentionally

allowed it to flourish and prosper but also shows the mechanisms through which it was sort of it was a companion, it, not a companion, but it did a lot of the same things that doapsic did, if you remember doapsic, the one for Hulu with

Caitlin Deaver and Michael Keaton. But there's such a sense of fury in it that I feel like is so appropriate. And sometimes those, you know, those things that sort of, you know, crusader

tone comes across wrong or self-satisfied or something. And I just feel like for something like this, I don't think there is a level of rage that isn't appropriate for what, you know, for creating this awful, awful. And again, you know, one of the things that Painkiller did, because it was, you know, Uzo Aduba, I believe, was the one sort of composite character. Everybody else is sort of pretty much real characters, who obviously a lot of her

rage against the Sackler family is that essentially this has happened before. This is what happened with the crack epidemic, right? You know what I mean? And that, you know, nobody gave a shit about that either. And that was used to demonize, you know, the black community. Because it's all these corporations and these white billionaires, you know, like, but anyway, I think Ben is back does a very good job of communicating that rage through a very sort of Feet on the ground, you know, again, like, I don't think there's, this movie does not allow, you know, very much distance from its intended audience to the story. Like, I, not to be like, well, this movie is doing a service for the world or whatever, but I do feel like, I do feel like there's probably, you know, people who would watch this who have, you know, young children, who have, like, children who are about to sort of age into. these very sort of dangerous years.

I don't know. I, I, um, not to be. I've become a very like, as an uncle of nephews person, um, which is, uh, I understand how annoying that is. Listen, the age your nephew is at, that's when they get you. That's when you're like, oh, this is my identity now. One million percent. This is where being an uncle is part of my identity.

Well, and so, and he's, um, I always get very, very, uh, I determine. to not sort of go into too far into specifics because I don't like anybody that the whatever parasocial nature of of you know social media and podcasts whatever I think encourages people to sort of like over-identify with people's family but sort of to keep it vague he very recently started school started preschool and this was one of the sort of things I had this conversation with my sister on sort of vague terms but like if I I'm feeling this way. I can't imagine how she's feeling, which is just this kind of low-level terror of letting him go out into the world. You know what I mean? Where it's just sort of like,

oh, shit, like, you no longer have control. You know what I mean? Where it's just sort of like, and it's, and it's on low-level things. You have no, you don't have control over what his friends at school are going to do to his sense of humor. You know what I mean? Which is where I was just like, oh god I hope he doesn't you know become like make wrong friends yeah become like kind of like a shitty kid or like or become somebody who I'm gonna have to like and you know when I say I again he's not my kid but you know what I mean but like I'm gonna have to like you know make sure he's you know less of a shitty kid you know what I mean because like boys you know boys will be boys or whatever it's just like um and I can't you go like that's the low level and then it's just like as and then it's just like as and then you he gets older and it's just like you are pushing this kid out into the world where guns exist and drugs exist and bad people exist and Nazis exist and boys are you know sort of recruited into this awful you know worldview or whatever and you have to be so fucking vigilant about all of that and yet your vigilance is also can also counter be counterproductive in that way

Your vigilance can also make the kid be like, get the fuck away from me, you know what I mean? Right, right. So it's just like the helplessness that Julia's character in this movie feels I related to in a way that I definitely didn't when I, you know, when I first saw this movie, where it's just like, we have this conversation with Katie a lot too, because Katie, of course, has two boys. And sometimes I just kind of like have the sense with Katie where it's just like, I don't know how. you deal with that emotionally you know what I mean where it's just like I don't know how you deal with that kind of like low level terror all the time right of just like my kids are out in the world and the world is so fucked up my family members and my friends that are good parents it is such an anomaly to me because I'm I'm fully convinced if I had ever been a parent I would be a basket

Oh, my God. Yes. I would be a stress monster. I am already a stress monster. I'm already a very anxious person. I don't need to bring children that I'm responsible for entirely into the mix. There are reasons beyond my homosexuality that I don't have kids. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think this is a very raw movie that, unfortunately, it makes sense that people were like, Yeah, don't want to deal with that in terms of, you know, actual audience members. Yeah. Awards voters voting for this movie. It also sort of had this infamous kind of triptych. It was part of this infamous sort of triptych of movies. The sort of beautiful Ben is back in a boy, you know what I mean? And gets erased.

Well, see, here's my thing is maybe we remember this differently or there's someone that's like specifically sticking in your craw about this, but I don't really remember people dismissing this movie as like, oh, look, another white boy drug movie. I remember people just really dismissing this movie outright, not for any of its, like, people just not paying this movie any attention at all, let alone. I saw the not another white boy drug movie thing, like literally, like as I went and looked in the letterbox logs of, of, you know. Interesting. So like that definitely existed. But I think, more so the fact that is what you're saying is that of the three of them, Beautiful Boy and Boy Erased both had sort of a larger footprint. I think they were, you know, they had more sort of optimistic Oscar buzz. They were both from bigger studios, I feel like. Beautiful Boy was. They got a bigger push. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, and Ben is back came out last of all three of them as well. And so. By that point, Beautiful Boy was the one who sort of came closest into the awards race. Shalomey did probably finish sixth, at worst, seventh in the supporting actor race that year. Boy Erased, I think, was, like, none of these movies were panned, right? None of these movies were absolutely shredded by critics. All of these movies sort of had their...

Beautiful Boy got the worst critical treatment. And yet came the closest to getting award, you know, got the most award. It's attention. So it's like, you know, yin and yang a little bit. But I think one of the things that happened, especially by the time Benis Beck came out, is people just sort of had this feeling of like, well, you've seen one movie about this same kid and whether this kid is played by Timmy or Lucas Hedges, like it doesn't matter. One of the ladybird kids is having trouble with either drugs or being gay. And I think it sort of allowed people to kind of dismiss these movies as just sort of a mini trend that. that sort of missed the mark that year. And I think it led to a lot of people either not seeing Ben is back entirely or sort of seeing it, but not really giving it due consideration. And I don't want to like read motive into people and say, you know, I imagine a lot of people did see it and give it consideration and still, you know, didn't like it and that's fine. But I think it's hard to deny that the sort of, this happens a lot when you sort of lump movies in with one another as a way of kind of... It's easier to dismiss the last one as just part of the soup.

Or just like, it becomes easier to dismiss all of them as a collective rather than dealing with the pluses and minuses of all of them. We've now covered all three of them for this podcast. And I think we're better for it, not to get all high and mighty or whatever. But, like, I feel like I have a good understanding of what I like and don't like about all of these movies. And I think, I think by a decent margin, Ben is back. It's the best of all three of them. Oh, I agree with that. No question.

While still thinking it's a movie that doesn't entirely worship that sets itself up for too tall of a task for the talents of its director. I think it's, I think this movie does. well enough, but is, you know, I don't think Peter Hedges has the, has the handle on the material as a director. So Peter Hedges, we should say, a decently interesting, you know, filmography. He's, you know, he's, it was, you know, came out of Des Moines, Iowa, right? You know what I mean? His father was a episcopal reverend, you know what I mean? And his mom was a shrink, I guess. So, like, this is just like, this is just like, this is. not some sort of like privileged or pampered, you know, I think when people talk about, you know,

Lucas Hedges being this sort of like Nepo baby, and of course he is, but it's not like he comes from this like long line of like, you know, he's not a Coppola, you know. So anyway, Peter Hedges wrote the novel What's Eating Gilbert Grape that was then adapted by Lassa Hallstrom. Well, how did just did the screenplay adaptation, but then was directed by Lassa Halstrom, gets nominated for an Academy Award for Leonardo DiCaprio is one of the sort of better-reviewed movies of that year. Also wrote the, along with Polly Platt, wrote the screenplay adaptation of the Jane Hamilton novel A Map of the World, which was a sort of indie hit and was part of a big sort of 1999 amalgam storyline for Julianne Moore, where she ultimately gets buzzed for that and for Magnolia.

And then is nominated. She won a Critics Prize for like four movies. Yes. And is ultimately nominated for Neil Jordan's The End of the Affair, which is one of the kind of least discussed best actress nominations of the last 25 years, even though I think most people thought she was quite good in it. She's great in that movie. I should revisit it because it's a thing that I never really think about that movie.

Reef finds us also really good in that movie. Yes. Yeah. Hedges co-wrote with the White's brothers, the screenplay adaptation of Nick Hornby's About a Boy, and then makes his directorial debut as a writer-director on the indie comedy pieces of April, which I don't like, and I think is a, it's one of those sort of cheapy digital video movies that look...

Impossible to look at 20 years later. I will grant, though. So ugly. I will grant, though, that, like, there are people who hold a fondness for this movie. Yes, and I begrudge them nothing. Because while I think it's a bad movie, like, I can appreciate that a movie like that is often revisited for the holidays. We're we recording this shortly before Thanksgiving.

And I know that, like, this week, you'll get a couple of people being like, Pieces of April, great Thanksgiving movie. And I'm like, agree to disagree, but I, you know, support your choice. Home for the holidays. Right. Patricia Clarkson gets a nomination for Pieces of Videos. It should have been for the station agent. You know what?

It's been 20 years. I'm going to let it go at some point soon. 2007, Peter Hedges directs a movie called Dan in Real Life that you might not know by its name, but you would know it by its poster because it is the movie where Steve Correll sadly rests his head on a stack of pancakes. Does that happen in the film? I feel like I've asked you this question before. Here's what I'm going to tell you. I've seen Dan in real life, and I don't know if that happens. happens. So this is a...

What goes down in Dan in real life that you wouldn't remember if he laid his head on some pancakes? Here's what I'm going to tell you. How crazy is that? When you have a movie where the central love triangle is between Steve Correll, Dane Cook, and Juliet Benoche. I'm just going to say you don't really remember too much else that happens in that movie because your brain never quite gets off of the dissonance of like, what? What's happening? Alison Pills in that movie where she plays the sort of like requisite, like, daughter who, you know, recognizes the insanity of everything that's going on around them. We love Alice. John Mahoney and Diane Weist play his parents. Norbert Leo Butz plays his brother, his other brother, the non-having relationship with Julia Pinoche brother. Amy Ryan is Norbert Leo Butts's wife.

Jessica Hecht, I think, is his sister. So, like, it's a very, oh, and then that's the other thing, is Emily Blunt is like, so it's sort of like a love quadrangle. It's a love quadrangle that is Steve Carrell, Julia Pinoche, Dane Cook, and Emily Blunt, so there you go. I hope that

Benosh and Blunt end up together would be nice. In that quadrangle. And everybody else goes and figures out their problems. I don't know. His next film is the 2012 family fantasy drama, the odd life of Timothy Green,

which is a movie I've never seen, but I know it's Jennifer Garner is in that movie. They're trying to have a kid, and then the kid comes from a tree or something? Yes. I think the kid grows in the garden in the back or something like that.

It is a movie that stars the IRL married couple of Rosemary DeWitt and Ron Livingston in its supporting cast, so that's always nice. Never seen it. I've never seen The Odd Life, Timothy Green. And then Ben is back. Comes Amir six years later. He also directed a film in 2021 that was a movie about the COVID pandemic, a year.

A Zoom movie? I mean, probably considering what it was made. Listen to this cast of people who had to star in a movie about COVID a year, not even a year after COVID. Sandra O, Mary Louise Parker, Elaine May, Raoul Castillo, Noma Dumazweeney, K. Todd Freeman, Danny Burstein, Ron Livingston, Rose Breederwitt, again, Alison Pill, again, John Gallagher Jr., Joshua Leonard, Corey Michael Smith, Baby Boy, Judith Light, Daphne Reuben Vega. None of these people deserve to have to make a movie about COVID in 2021.

It premiered at Telluride, too. Another example that Telluride is a force for evil. It's called the same storm, in case you want to sort of put your alerts out for that to, you know, on Blue Sky or whatever, to block it. 79% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Put this on a block list. Put it on a starter kit that you can block. You know what? Put all Zoom movies, except for the Unfriended Series.

Variety gave it a positive review. Hollywood Reporter gave it a positive review. Deadline gave it a positive review. David Ehrlichie gave it a B-minus, which for David sounds like faint praise. Generosity. Yeah, like it's, you know, whatever. Whatever, I'm not going to watch it. Yeah, the only thing that's acceptable for Zoom movies are horror and horror adjacent.

We should also say Jane Schoenbrens, we're all going to the world's fair. The best of all Zoom movies. Very good movie. All right. I want to talk about Julia Roberts for a second because this movie does not get her, you know, a ton of awards attention. She's sort of in the conversation, but she doesn't really get any actual precursor attention at all. But it comes in an interesting sort of era in her career. Her most recent, still her most recent Oscar nomination came in 2013 for August Osage County, which to me, I don't know how. you feel about that nomination. I was so focused on the fact that it annoyed me that she's not a supporting. A lead. She's not a supporting character in that movie. It's also a movie that very clearly cast to A-list actresses as its leads for a reason and to sort of then bald-faced lie and say that Julia Roberts is supporting so you can get them both nominated is the kind of Oscar

citizen that I don't like. Much better than the performance that got a lead. nomination. I'm not terribly anti-Meryl in that movie. I know that a lot of it comes from me not having seen that play, and I have nothing to compare it to. I think Merrill is decently effective for me in that movie. I kind of feel like that subpar movie really dampened the legacy of that play because I really think that that play is getting at something generationally in America that I find to be pretty powerful. And then movie just sucking so much and also not tapping into any of that that's so clearly in the text and so clearly about you know yeah that movie runs about a racism millimeter deep

yeah yeah yeah but the thing about julia being pushed as a supporting performer for that movie and getting the nomination is that it obscures better performances and i say that as someone who thinks Julia Roberts is really good in that movie, but like, really kind of kills the chances of a Julia Nicholson, Juliette Lewis, Margo Martindale being nominated for that movie. One of the things, excuse me, one of the things that happens when a Tony acclaimed play or musical, but usually, I'm mostly talking about plays here, get nominated, get turned into movies is we try to, and when I say we, I mean, the annoying Oscar prognosticators, who you know and love, we try to sort of draw straight line from the roles that got the Tony

nominations to the movie roles, and oftentimes that leads us astray. I think August Osage County was one of those times where I think a lot of people went into that, being like, well, Margo Martindale is a huge contender for supporting actress because this was the, you know, the woman who played that role won the Tony. Rondie Reed, yeah. Yes. So, and then the movie comes, and that character is not as emphasized as your Julianne Nicholson character. And so I think there was not enough time nor there was, nor was there enough goodwill for that movie to sort of turn that ship around and to sort of turn it

from, you know, looking at Margo Martindale's performance as a contender to looking at Julianne Nicholson as a contender. And then once they dropped Julia Roberts down to supporting, then it was just sort of like then it was all over. And I really hope by the time this episode is airing, we have a Julia and Nicholson Best Lead Performance nomination at the Indie Spirits. I think that's probably, I think, you know, I haven't really gone and like looked into you the possibilities for that. So maybe the competition is, you know, more fierce than I'm giving it credit for. But I feel like she's definitely going to get in there.

It's just a performance, I hope, doesn't blank for the whole season. I agree. One of the interesting things, though, about this August Osage County nomination for Julia is it's sort of the oasis in the desert for Julia in terms of her post-Aren Brockovich career. As a quick little thought experiment, how many times would you? you say, looking at her filmography, she finished in the top 10 of voting for best actress since Aaron Brockovich. Oh, just as a league. Yes.

Or even a supporting. Times she's finished in the top 10 with, you know, O'Sage County accepted. How many times do you feel like she finished in the top 10 of voting in either actress or supporting actress. I say it at most three, and that's maybe a stretch. I think that's probably a stretch. I think it's two at best, but it's probably only once and maybe not even then for closer. I feel like she was... The thing about Julia post her Oscar is people have not really given her a fair shot, and maybe August O'Sage County is the only time for a theatrical movie that I think she's been given.

a fair shot. I feel like Mona Lisa Smile, she's probably getting scattered votes but probably not in the top 10

considering the competition of that year for 2003. Closer, I think yes, I think you're probably on target for that. I think she was probably in the top 10

for Charlie Wilson's war that year considering she was a Golden Globe nominee. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't know who else. Yeah, I forgot that

she was a globe nominee for that. She's quite good in duplicity, but that movie got paid dust. I actually think she's good in E. Pray, Love, but it's E. Pray, Love, and it's a Ryan Murphy movie that was released in the summer. I've still never seen that movie. Isn't that so funny? I feel like there was a moment where she was getting supporting actress Buzz for Mirror Mirror, but I don't think that lasted. Secret in their eyes doesn't exist. We've done that

movie. She, I think, is good in a part that is semi-ridiculous. Yeah. Money Mom. I don't think she attained much buzz. And then Wonder ends up being a pretty good financial success, but I don't think she ever really got awards buzz for that. And then Ben is back. I mean, well, we can maybe pivot into this right now. But as well as her performance was regarded, and I think it was pretty, you know, even the people who didn't love this movie thought that Julia was good. I don't think you can credibly make an argument that she was in the top 10 of voting. No, no.

There was a lot going on in lead actress this year. And for as spread out as it kind of was for her to not even show up for, say, the Globes, and especially when the Globes definitely have their own nominees that they're going their own way. So I want to give a quick little rundown. And Chris, like, definitely jump in and comment on this as I go. The Oscar nominees that year, this was, of course, the famous year where Olivia Coleman pulls off the 11th hour upset of Glenn Close. Other nominees that year were Lady Gaga for a Starsborn, of course, because if you remember Olivia Coleman winning, you of course remember Lady Gaga, getting the shout out. Melissa McCarthy for Can You Ever Forgive Me Easily My Vote that year in this category, watching that movie again recently for when we did.

the libraries and bookstores, screen drafts. What a film. What a performance. What a monumental film. And then Yelita Aparicio for Roma. Those are your Oscar nominees. So then the Golden Globes nominate in drama, Glenn Close, Lady Gaga, Melissa McCarthy, and then add to that Nicole Kidman for Destroyer and Rosamund Pike for a private war, a movie I've still never seen.

No one else mentioned. None of the major precursors nominated. either of those performances, too. So those are the ones where the globes going their own way. You could argue a private war. They're really going their own way. I remember even as far as

that year's TIF that Nicole was getting good buzz for getting an Oscar nomination for that. And then it just kind of very much fizzled. I think that was a movie that didn't open until very, very late in December. And I think that probably was not a great idea for that movie.

It was an Annapurna movie. and Anna Perna that year is a whole other conversation that I'm sure we've had at some point on this show. Yes, you're totally right. As a distributor. Yeah, yeah. Mess. Golden Globes comedy, Olivia Coleman wins there over Emily Blunt for Mary Poppins Returns, who was underrated Olivia Coleman speech where she refers to Emma and Rachel as, my bitches.

I forgot about that. Emily Blunt for Mary Poppins returns. I think we all sort of forget how maybe close that got to getting a real nomination. I feel like that's probably six place. Elsie Fisher for eighth grade, Charlize Theron for Tully, a movie that we should do at some point. We should also do eighth grade at some point. And then Constance Wu for Crazy Rich Asians. The SAG Awards give the award to Glenn Close, but it's Glenn, Olivia, Gaga, Melissa McCarthy.

and then they put Emily Blunt for Mary Poppins returns in there. Bafta gives Coleman the win, which makes sense because it's, you know, British. Coleman, close, Gaga McCarthy, and then they add Viola Davis for Widows' taste. Gave us so much hope. I always forget that that actually happened because, in my memory, Widows really just was completely shunned. It was only mostly completely shunned. Critics' Choice were as Craven as they've maybe ever been with seven nominees this year and a tie at the win for Glenn Close and Lady Gaga. And I love, by the way, that even going to those lengths and even going so far as to do a tie.

I know you can't engineer a tie, but go with me on this. It tough tells with my opinion of the Critics' Choice as being a Craven organization, that they get the tie and then- A Craven organization that should absolutely welcome us in their range. 100%. We will... We will affect change. But that they, you know, go to all that length and they still don't predict the Oscar winner. Close and Gaga, Coleman McCarthy, uprese.

So your five Oscar nominees are all nominated by the Critics' Choice, as was Emily Blunt, as was Tony Colette for Hereditary. Another performance I would have absolutely nominated on my own ballot. Indy Spirits is a banger lineup of six this year. Glenn Close wins, and you can almost sort of like forget about that. but then it's Tony Colette, Elsie Fisher, Regina Hall for Support the Girls, Carrie Mulligan for Wildlife, and then Helena Howard for Madeline's Madeline, a movie I still don't get, but I support... Incredible performance, love that movie.

I'm almost, I'm more taken with the Molly Parker performance in that movie. That's really, like, my highlight in that movie. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But... Molly Parker is unreal in that movie. Incredible. Your critics awards, New York Film Critics, of course, went for Regina Hall for Support the Girls,

a classic... New York Film Critics Circle advocacy award, which did a good job because now all of a sudden we do remember her performance. And she's so good in that movie, Regina Hall and Support the Girls. National Board of Review went for Lady Gaga. LA Critics and National Society, both went for Olivia Coleman. And then there's a good handful of folks who didn't get any, along with Julia Roberts for Ben is back, who didn't get any nominations from these, but who were sort of, hovering around the race in some form or another, Sersha Ronan in Mary Queen of Scots,

who I feel like was probably in the top ten, considering how Margot Robbie kept showing up in supporting actress lineups. I feel like Sersha was probably in that mix a little bit more than maybe even we're thinking. Kiki Lane for if Beale Street could talk, speaking of Annapurna.

Felicity Jones for on the basis of sex. Kira Knightley for Collette. Remember Colette? Emma Thompson for the Children Act. And then you're getting into off the beaten path, pun intended, Jessica Chastain and Women Walks

Ahead. Hillary Swank for a movie called What They Had that I don't didn't see and has one of those annoying

non-specific titles that I always bitch about that this tells me nothing. What they had as a title gives me absolutely

no indication of what kind of a movie this is. What they had is pretty good. It's an Alzheimer's movie. Woman Walks

Ahead. And Hillary Swank is pretty good in it too. All right. Though I would rule out that Emma Thompson

and Jessica Chastain performance. Those were like A-24 direct TV movies. Remember when they had a VOD agreement with... Oh, God. And I think those came out in the next spring. Oh, that's interesting. Okay, then we can rule them out for 2018. And then the one that I kept talking about that got no traction,

even though I think it's easily one of the best lead actress performances from that year is Natalie Portman in Annihilation, which I think... You know I love it too. Was so slept on. The movie in general, but also that performance, which was so... underrated. I think that movie does not hang together without her being fucking excellent in that movie. So that's my little rant for that. But yeah, Julia doesn't get nominated anywhere, despite the fact that like critics choice went for seven nominations. That, you know, the Golden Globes went for Rosamond Pike in a private war. You know what I mean? Like there are there areas where you could have nominated Julia, but Ben is back, I think, was so, although you can't tell me that Ben, Ben, and his back was less of a presence in that season than a private war, you know, but, you know. Right. But the Globes were probably the group that was going to go with it. And I think by now we know that the Globes love Roz.

That is true. They love few people as much as Ros Pike. So we'll eventually talk about Destroyer, too. But I feel like even if I don't think that's a great movie, I do think that was a movie that was treated. unfairly. And some of it was the expectations were so high before people saw that movie. I think also the fact that that first and for a while, you know, we talk about the curse of the movie with one publicity still. We sort of joke about it with the whale. For so long, it was just the one publicity still for Destroyer. And it was that dead on shot of Nicole Kidman with her face looking like she dipped it in marinera sauce. and she just sort of is staring dead ahead and absolutely like a husk of a person and you're just sort of like what what am I looking at what is going on I don't like this this is not how I want to be you know experiencing Nicole Kidman and I think there was a sense of like I think if Destroyer happens now people would be more generous to it because we forgot in the time of Destroyer that, you know, Nicole Kidman is a performer

who takes risks and that is one of her risk-taking performances. She takes risk regardless of reward. And now I think we're in a place where we want that again. And, you know, baby girl, I think, is dipping the toes in the water for that. And I hope that she gets, I hope people take that for as far as they can get. What do you think did it? What do you think turned it right? Do you think it was the being the Ricardo's nomination? All the bad TV shows. Oh, all the bad TV shows? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. She's in a damn Taylor Sheridan show no one watches. That's getting another season that she'll be it. What is that called lioness? Who cares? I think it's called lioness. It's called something like lioness. Yeah. And she's not the lioness. Wait, she's not the lioness? I believe it's her and Zoe Saldania and they're both supporting characters in the show. Neither one of them is the lioness. I don't think so.

Listeners. Everything I've learned about lioness, including the title of the show, I have learned against my show. Listeners, if you know who is the lioness and lioness, get at us in some way, form or fashion. And if I'm wrong and she's the lioness or Zoe Saldanya is the lioness, don't tell me. You know what? In your life, be the lioness in your life. Do not allow anybody else to be the lioness. be in a Taylor Sheridan fell.

So, yeah, I think there's, I look at these sort of lineups. I look at that Oscar lineup. I mean, whatever, like, neither one of us were too, too high on the wife. You sort of dislike it a lot more than I do. But, like, I love that Coleman win. I love that Gaga nomination. I love the McCarthy performance. I don't know if I nominate Yelita Operecio, even though I think she's good in that.

But I feel like. In terms of like acting performances that really sort of like nailed me, I think I probably put in Tony Collette in Hereditary above that. I put in Natalie Portman in Annihilation. Carrie Mulligan and Wildlife. Yeah, Regina Hollen support the girls. So no shade to Yulitsa. And I'm glad that she got that nomination. But it's a really strong year for. for lead actress, I'll say, which is what makes it a little vexing that, you know, Glenn Close and the wife was the frontrunner for so long, and Emily Blunt and Mary Poppins returns almost makes it no shade against Emily Blunt. But a movie and performance, no one really even talks about five years later. I mean, kind of, just kind of. And then, of course, Viola Davis for Widows, which is like, come on.

Your winner? Was she your winner? You know, that's a very good question. Who was my winner? year. Hold on a second. I do think my winner today is Melissa McCarthy or Olivia Coleman. I think my winner today is probably from the Oscar lineup that would be on my ballot probably. All right. Let's see. Because there's so much greatness that, you know, the Academy was probably not going to ever reward like Regina Hall or Helena Howard. Yeah. The unfortunate thing with Support the Girls is like that was just such a small movie. It's, I believe that was Magnolia. I think you're right.

Well, and it's also, I can never remember that filmmaker's name. Pajalski? Yes, Andrew Bajalski, who I'm never, I'm never as high on his movies, usually, than as much as his fans are, I think, you know, because he was what, he was computer chess, he was the one with, the one about the, the physical. personal trainers, right? Results. Results. Who was it in, was it Rose Byrne, Kobe Smoulders? Who was in results?

Kobe Smolders was in results. Anyway, my best actress that year was Melissa McCarthy. So my top five, Melissa McCarthy, Viola Davis, Carrie Mulligan, Charlize Theron for Tully and Tony Klett for Hereditary. I think now I bump out Charlize, even though I loved her in that movie for Natalie. Oh, you know what I didn't even add here? Because they were both Netflix movies, and I went through... Catherine Hahn. Catherine Hahn for Private Life.

Maggie Gyllenhaal for the kindergarten teacher. And this was also Rachel Weiss for Disobedience. I believe Disobedience came out here. Yes. Yes. Disobedience would have been released in the spring. Yeah. So add in those... Rachel Weiss and Rachel McAdams, which I think McAdams was the...

I think they tried to push McAdams as supporting. They did, which is... Okay. It's top... It's not as egregious as Emma Stone. It's top bottom politics as akin to Brokeback Mountain. But yeah, so then, like, honestly, making a top five in 2018 is... Tough.

You want to torture, you want to send a gay to Guantanamo. This is what you do. You say, pick five out of the lead actress performances of 2018. And, like, I would even say Emma Stone, That's the best performance of her career, so I feel weird leaving her out. But I do feel like Coleman is better. And because this field is so strong, you want to spread the well. I have Coleman as a supporting actress, which I know you've yelled at me about before.

It's incorrect. Okay. Go on. All right. But I do. And I have her second place behind Rachel Weiss on my ballot for that. But anyway. Rachel Weiss is a supporting performance.

Thank you. But she's my winner that year. I love her so much in that movie. She's my favorite performance in that movie. But you're right. I think Abistone is phenomenal in The Favorite. So what are you going to do? I guess since I've explained my

the very precise feelings that I have about Emma Stone in the favorite, I'm still saying, I guess, my ballot today would be Coleman McCarthy, Viola Davis, Regina Hall. all Helena Howard. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing. Take any five names out of the top 13, you know, from that year, and you're going to end up with a good lineup. And wild.

Wild. So good. Anyway, all right. Back to, back to Ben is back. You know who's back? Ben. Ben. You know what we're back to?

Ben being back. Uncle Ben me, who can. recall his past lives, is back. That's a trivia team name right there. That's a trivia team name. I want to briefly talk about Lucas Hedges here because I feel like in all, I think this is weirdly a movie that kind of gets, no pun intended, erased in, I know that was his other movie in 2018.

When we talk about the sort of the Lucas Hedges narrative, he's, we talked, why did we talk about him very recently? Oh, French exit. Right. We did French exit. Right. How have we not hit six Lucas Hedges? We're at like four already. Wait, we're at Boy Erased, Ben is back, French exit, let them all talk. So we're at four. No, Labor Day. Five. Labor Day. Fuck. All right. So next Lucas Hedges. And we'll hit it because we're eventually going to do either waves or, well, we'll do waves. At some point, we'll do waves.

So that's when we'll hit the next one. Or he could maybe make another movie. Hey, what a concept. I suppose we could do Shirley. Shirley doesn't exist to a degree that I would feel bad even being like, you know, this had Oscar buzz, Shirley. It's like, it kind of has to exist first to have Oscar buzz. I mean, we've done movies that have fully been like.

That's true. Especially in the early days. That's true. But anyway. So the 2017, so Manchester by the sea, 2016 happens. He gets that Oscar nomination. I think he's very good in that movie. I remember when I saw that at Tiff, that was one of my sort of immediate reactions.

I was like, Lucas Hedges is really good. I know that like Casey Affleck was already getting. The panic attack scene is like an impossible acting assignment and he does it so well. But then the next year at Tiff, he's in both Lady Bird and three billboards. And I remember being like, you know, he's not going to get nominated for either one of these, but he's so good, especially in Lady Bird. I think he's really great in that movie. I think he and Sersia are lovely together in that movie.

And I think Greta sort of does a very good job with that. Three Billboards, he's a little bit more one-dimensional, but I think he's, you know, good in that role. Isn't Catherine Newton the daughter in that? Catherine Newton, I believe, is the one that Beanie... Oh, no, Catherine Newton's definitely in Lady Bird. Oh, yes. Catherine Newton is the one that Beanie links up with when Lady Bird dropped her.

But isn't she also the dead daughter in three billboards? Don't they have her in flashbacks? Maybe, or it's someone who's a real Catherine Newton type? So, like, Lucas Hedges and Catherine Newton have been in at least three movies together. That's so funny. That's so interesting. Yeah, she is. Catherine Newton, three billboards, yeah.

So, wild. Anyway, but yes, I don't know. I think he's really great in Lady Bird. I don't know. I also think Timmy's really great in Lady Bird. That's the thing is, and Timmy's so fucking funny. It's almost like it's a really, really incredibly well-directed movie with nothing but stellar performances. Who gives the worst performance in Lady Bird?

Is that a possible question to answer? I mean, I can be mean. I can just be mean and be like it's O'Dea Rush. But like that just feels like unnecessarily. No, that's a read on the character, not the performance. because I think she is giving you exactly what that person is. You could be right. So then who?

Wait, Jonah Ruiz in that movie is Daniel Zovato. That's so funny. Jonah Ruiz I only think of from that scene with Sersha and Shalameh, where she's like, I saw you play with Jonah Ruiz's band or whatever. Daniel Zovato, who I'm so high on this year after Woman of the Hour. Yeah, I don't think I could name. who the, what the worst performance in Lady Bird is. I don't think that's possible.

Yeah. Damn. Damn. You're totally right. Okay. So then 2018 happens and he's in boy erased, Ben is back. And then mid-90s, a movie that I've still never seen, the Jonah Hill movie with. Now, the kid from that movie is the kid from killing of a sacred deer?

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then Lucas Hedges plays his older brother. Yeah, mid-90s sucks. Does it? I mean, I've never seen it, but everything that I've heard about it sounds like something that I would be annoyed by. Although, Trent Reznor Aticus Ross score, so there is that.

Don't remember it at all. So I think all three of those movies were at that TIF that year. Right? Was it mid-90s there? Yes. And then, so a little bit of, it's not necessarily like the shine comes off of Lucas after that year, but I think the fact that boy erased and Ben is Back were both kind of dismissed that year feels like, if not necessarily a rejection of him, but like not this year, kid, kind of a thing, right? Well, and Ben Is Back really got kind of buried at that Tiff, even though it had like a bigger premise. I think on

maybe Friday night and then we didn't see it until well into the second week because this is one of those times we stayed the whole time. And when they had more screenings of movies later in the week, they have fewer of them.

Yeah, and it just... Press wasn't excited about it. Yeah. You know, I think if it had sold itself at that festival as doing what the movie's doing rather than being just normal family drama with movies, stars in it, and they'd sold it as this is a look at the opioid edemic that becomes a thriller, people would have...

Maybe, yeah. They can prioritize it more, maybe? I don't know. Talk about the... We sort of kind of let that lay flat for a second. The part of the movie where it becomes a thriller, which is essentially they go out in the car, they're looking for the dog that has been abducted by clearly one of his former associates from the drug world. Michael Esper The least believable of drug dealer

Eventually This is one of those movies That's like He was a drug dealer also on Nurse Jackie I'm pretty sure Or like somebody that Jackie did drugs with Yeah Um

I Christina if you're listening Hi we miss you It made me want to like Get Christina on the buzzer and be like Is this a Westchester movie Because it has that thing of where it is conceivably

shot within a two-hour train ride radius, because there's all these theater actors that are in the movie. Myel Lucretia Taylor has a cameo. Michael Esper is in this movie. Rachel Bay Jones, where it's just like they fill

all of the smaller roles with theater people. Filming took place in Yonkers, which is in Westchester. There you go. New City, which is in Rockland County. Slotsburg, which is in Rockland County. Um...

Maramaneck, which is in Westchester County. Mammeraneck, I never pronounced that place right. Garnerville, which is Rockland County, and Haverstraw, which is in Rockland County. So your instincts were correct. I could not. I was so struck by how every mall that mall was. It was like every mall, USA, where I live, there's the one shot where you can see the Sears store behind them. And I'm like, that's exactly where the Sears was in my mall.

You know what I mean? It's just like. Well, yeah, because they're. their anchors, they're the giant spaces, but also how none of the, the stores were clearly open when they were filming there, and none of them are window dressed for the holidays, as someone who spent multiple holiday seasons in retail and knows what the hell is to get those winter windows up. What were your retail stores that you worked in over the holidays? Redacted. Not getting this on the record. Oh, all right, we're going to talk about this

when we're done talking about. Not because they're bad, because guess what? All companies are bad, but just, like, I don't want to go there. If you worked at, like, American Eagle or something like that, I'm going to be... No. Gap. We'll talk about it off mic. All right.

But, yeah, but then they would have, like, giant human-sized nutcrackers out in the walkway that a set dresser put in there because... They would have had to, like... They're advertising, like, baby. suits in the winter. They would have had to, like, go out of their way to avoid the Santa's display if it was actually filmed during a holiday season. But anyways... I don't want to be cinemasins about it.

No, I know. But it was one of those things as a person who spent far too much of their time in a mall trying to make money. I was zeroing in on that, trying to be Leonardo DiCaprio once upon a time in Hollywood meming. So one of the things in the back half of the movie, I don't even think it's the back half half necessarily. It's probably closer to say it's the back third. I don't think it's quite half of the movie that does this. But I think once we hit to like the pawn shop and like we see

Michael Esper's like operation or whatever, I feel like, well, now we've maybe overstepped a little bit. And now all of a sudden we're dealing with like organized crime or whatever. And I don't, I feel like that's not where this movie needs to go, which is too bad because just before we get to that point. We get the David Zaldivar character who plays Spider, Spencer, who is one of Ben's sort of drug buddies, but also like a friend of his from childhood who Holly remembers as Spencer. And he's like, I'm Spider now. It's, it fits my personality more or whatever. And it's just like, oh, you poor, you know, the husk of a boy. And she's, and again, this is one of those things where she's just sort of like, oh my God, this kid that I knew, this sort of, you know, and you can almost see it in her eyes that she can, she's picturing the child, the toddler version of this kid who she remembers.

She's still at the point that she can be shocked by a lot of this. That's the thing. And I think that's one of the best aspects of this movie is that her perspective sort of allows that. And it doesn't, she doesn't come across as hopelessly naive. She just comes across to somebody who experienced the hell of this, but only, from her, you know, she experienced her corner of hell from it. And now she's seeing other things. But I think that's so effective. I think when she ends up exchanging drugs and giving him drugs for information on Ben and where he is, that to me is so much more devastating than anything to do with Michael Esper's character and what he's going to, the threat he proposes to the family and whatnot.

Whereas just sort of like, she loses a little bit of her soul in that moment, right? She loses a little bit of her moral code there a little bit where she, she, you know, exchanges, she prioritizes the life of her kid over someone else's kid. While in that same moment being like... Screaming out of to call his mother so that she can know he's alive, yeah. Yeah. Which is, I think, just an incredibly satisfyingly morally compliment. complex moment in this movie that I feel like this movie maybe didn't get enough credit for moments like that. And so I appreciated that. But then again, yeah, then all of a sudden we're in this pawn shop. And I'm like, we've maybe to take a step back. Take a step back from that. And we can still end up in the barn with Ben. You know what I mean? You can still end up with a lot of these, you know, more sort of personally harrowing moments without having to be like, and now. they have to get one over on the kingpin of Rockland County or whatever the fuck. So, yeah.

We haven't really spent much energy towards talking about this as a Christmas movie. I know. And yet. We were kind of quickly shuffling to get our December episodes together ahead of schedule as needed. And we were like, oh, well, Ben is back. But then the idea of this movie as a Christmas movie, like, people aren't watching this for their ironic Christmas movie. watching. But I do also think that that setting really kind of intensifies everything that's happening,

but also gives a certain urgency and logic to what happens. You know, if this was happening in March, you know, this movie's kind of lacking something that ties it together. It also gives you that would make this scenario have more meaning. It also gives you a really sort of quick a shorthand into, not shorthand necessarily, but like, it allows you easy access to the rest of the town, right? You're in the mall because you're shopping for presents and so you run into people. You're at church. This movie really understands the vibe of going to church only on Christmas. You know, you go to church once a year. Yeah, at the beginning, she threatens her too youngest. She's like, do you want to be a family that only goes to church on Christmas?

then do your best of it, so that we don't have to be here. We got the most of it. We got to make the most of it this time so that we don't have to do this every week. I like that. And it has the energy of, you know, I've been the family who goes to church on Christmas Eve because your sister is singing in the choir that year. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like, it's an obligation, but you also want to sort of show up for her,

but also she kind of like doesn't care that much, you know? It's an interesting vibe. It's a real interesting vibe. Yeah, it's, you know, I appreciate a Christmas movie in all sort of shapes and sizes. I think also... We're not done talking about Christmas movies. Well, we're certainly not. Tune in next week.

But I also think this movie understands that this character, the Julia Roberts character, would be willing to, you know, take a little bit of a chance of wanting... her son to come home from rehab for a couple of days to have a, to have a, you know, a Christmas with him. I think, you know, she so wants it to be better. And she knows that it can't be. Like, in the same breath where she, like, gives him a hug and welcomes him home when she sees him in the yard, she immediately goes inside and takes all the pills out of the medicine cabinet

and puts him in a bag, you know? So she's not like, again, she's not this hopelessly naive. character, she's, she's situationally naive in a way that makes a lot of sense and does not sort of sacrifice anything of that character. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I really like, I understand, like, I totally, I get what you're saying about, you know, that it doesn't always work structurally. And, like, I do. I see that. Um, but I think to me, the thing, the good things that it does really, really outweighs the bad. And, um, I was glad I gave a second look because even I, who was pretty, like, again, I was pretty positive on it. But like my, you know, my review out of, out of TIF was I think a little sort of casual and just sort of like, you know, all right. Well, this is, you know, this is okay. Um, so I was glad I got to see it again. Yeah, me too, me too, to have a more formed opinion

Especially because we would have been eyeball deep in the festival when we first saw this movie Which is probably how a lot of people saw it, you know, if it was on a screener pile, you know, mixed in with other things It's a movie that even if I don't think it's fully successful does kind of need its space Yes You know, to really grapple with what it's doing This was also an M4G's dummy three-time M4G's nominee. I got three movies for grown-ups awards nominations,

one of which, obviously, the one that makes the most sense is Julia Roberts for Best Actress. At least she showed up somewhere. That's true. It's the one place she did kind of show up. Glenn Close wins for the wife, of course. Nicole Kidman for Destroyer, Viola Davis for Widows, and Sandra Bullock for Birdbox.

That's right. This was also the year of Birdbox. Birdbox, which I have still never seen. Birdbox fully just kind of... This is also how you can tell that the window for the M4G voting switched, because Birdbox just kind of arrived. I don't...

Did they even screen that for press? I don't think so. Did it play AFI? I don't remember it having much of a pre... Like a carpet rolled out for it. You know what I mean? Yeah, it did not have this type of advanced buzz and it drops on Netflix and is suddenly...

a sensation. This was when Netflix was really trying to embrace the element of surprise a little bit. It wasn't quite so much as like, we are going to surprise drop a Cloverfield sequel on Super Bowl Sunday. Remember that when fucking Cloverfield Paradox premiered right after the fucking Super Bowl? I do, because I had to... Which was a red flag. Well, yeah, it's because it's an awful movie.

But I had to, like, watch it that night and write about it that morning. And I was so tired. Whatever. But Birdbox, I remember even being people like us who follow the movies that are in production, being released, et cetera, having one day of being like Birdbox is the biggest thing on Netflix right now and thinking to myself, what is that? I at least, because I was on, I was very much on the Netflix beat, so I sort of, I at least knew it was coming. I knew it was a Susanna Beer movie. But is there an edible you take that, like, really? Reliably makes you sort of giggly?

I mean... In your repertoire? Okay, so edibles tend to make you giggly, rather than like, you know... Snozy. Right. I would take an edible and watch Bird Box, and I think you might enjoy it for what it is, is what I will say. I've had one edible before that just like, boom, I went to sleep. Okay.

Well, that's the... Typically, I'm a giggle. All right. Ben is back also gets nominated for Best Intergenerational Film, where it loses to Mary Poppins returns, sure. Other nominees are A Quiet Place, Beautiful Boy, and Crazy Rich Asians. Here's the thing I think, too, when you're comparing Ben is back to Beautiful Boy, is because Beautiful Boy is based on not only a true story, but on two memoirs from, one from the dad and one from the sun. I think, for one thing... And those were very popular memoirs when they were published, too.

Right. So I think, A, you are sort of beholden to these perspectives, you know, a little bit, and you are beholden to the specificity of it. And usually specificity is good. I think in Ben is back, I think having the freedom to sort of, like, create your own specificity is preferable to what in Beautiful Boy, you have to sort of hue to this true life story that happened. But the other thing is, is in Beautiful Boy, you're coming at this from an angle of, you know, even if, you know, this is a recovery still in progress, you're coming at it, coming at the story of a boy who made it through, you know? And I think one of the things about Ben is back Is it does have that horribly open-ended thing Of her just not knowing

Whether he's going to make it through And as terrified as Steve Carell is in Beautiful Boy You at least as an audience member Know enough to be like Or walking into the movie with the knowledge Of where this story goes Even if the movie does try to qualify it You know addiction as an ongoing

Journey You know that there's no real end point I don't know, the ending of this movie, I will say, there is some, I think, I think some people could misread it to be like, it's some happy ending where because he lives, that means that they are through this journey. But I do, I think there's something to that structure that says this is just an episode in a very, very long story. That's sort of how I take it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it can do that in subtler ways than Beautiful Boy, which is a heavy-handed approach to it. The third AARP MFRIG's nomination it gets is Best Screenwriter, which it loses to Nicole Hollifson and Jeff Whitty for Can You Ever Forgive Me?

In favor of that. Other nominees were first reformed, Paul Schrader, the favorite Deborah Davis and Tony McNamara, and then the team from Green Book. We have made it almost through this entire episode about a 2018 movie without mentioning Green Book, but there it is. And we'll leave it at that. You know how we feel. All right. I'm sort of pouring through my notes. Two, two, two, two, two, two, two, two, Catherine Newton.

She really does a good job of sort of showing how terrifying it is, the idea that, like, her brother being back means that, like, the bad times are back, you know what I mean? That's sort of like the nightmare is back. Do, do, do, do, do, do, every mall, USA, temptation to return. Oh, does Lucas Hedges give you like a Peter Sarsgaard vibe, or is that just me a little bit? Vaguely, like, I would believe him as their age difference is not quite right to play father, son, believably on screen, but they also probably wouldn't be brothers. idea. Yes. But yes, I understand what you're saying. Oh, my last note was, and this is, you know, glib for what was going on. But when Lucas Hedges, he gets the dog, he goes to the drug store drive up, he gets his needles, but he also gets food to give to the dog. And he gives the dog Greek yogurt. I can't imagine that's good for a dog. I can't imagine giving a dog Greek yogurt. Something's going down in that. I was going to say, you're going to have to, that car is.

is toast after this. Like, you're, I know that smells crazy in there. Schedule a detailing appointment. I know that car smells crazy. Yeah, so those are my notes. Those are my notes on Ben is back. Should we move into the IMDB game?

Yeah, let's do it. All right, every episode, we end with the IMD game where we challenge each other with an actor, actress, to try to guess all the top four titles that IMD says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. Sure does. That's the IMDB game. All right, Chris, would you like to guess first or give your clue first? Let's guess first today. All right. Let's get to guess them.

So I chose for you somebody who did co-star with both Lucas Hedges and Catherine Newton. in the aforementioned Lady Bird, who we have somehow never done before, even though we both love this actress very, very much. She most recently, no, I don't remember what most recently. But anyway, it's the great Lois Smith, is what I'm saying. Oh, we love Lois Smith. See, the question is how far back is this going to go? I don't know.

Because, like, do I think something like East of Eden is on there? I think Lady Bird's on there Lady Bird is on there Sister Sarah Joan and Lady Bird Twister Twister yes There's so much good Lois Smith And Lois Smith also had

That movie where she's a robot That she was like actively campaigned for And I think that was bleak or street maybe I just forget the name of it It's two words and one of the words Is her character and like she'd played that role on the stage. I think she got like an AARP nomination for this,

maybe an Indy Spirit nomination for this. See, what else would she have? Where would she show up for a lot in a movie? I wonder if that was also this same year, this movie you're talking about. 2018? I think it was 2017. Well, it was definitely festivals in 2017,

but I don't know when. I've got, no, it was released in the United States in 2017 as well. So I'm going to guess that that's not on her known for because you're looking into the movie. Yes. But it was called Marjorie Prime. It's not. Marjorie Prime. I'll give you that kindness so your brain can get off of that subject and move to something.

I'll say East of Eden then. Not East of Eden. Strike one. Okay. What's the other movie that I was recently watching that? I was like, Lois Smith. And it was something significant. She's in, might be another Cassan movie.

I will just get, now I'm at a loss for Lois Smith movies. This is what happens is we get these character actors. And it's like, oh, yeah, they're in a million things. And then when you're in the pressure seat, you're like, what are those millions of things? It's not as good. Good as it gets that she's in. That's Shirley Knight.

Shirley Knight should have been nominated for as good as it gets. Okay. Lois Smith, also in... Oh, Minority Report. Yes. Minority Report must be there. I was worried you were going to forget about that. She says the lie.

She does. She says Minority Report. Yeah. How do I know which one it is? How do I know which one has it? It's always in the most intelligent of the three. Well, who is that? The female.

It's okay. Maybe it is another recent one, though, because it was Marjorie Prime, Lady Bird, and something else. People were like Lois Smith having a moment. It rules. And, like, Lois Smith was on Twitter. And I just going to be hard for you because, A, I don't think you, it's for boys. Yes. I don't think this is a movie you think about very much.

This is a movie that I like, but you don't, I think. And I don't, even I, as somebody who likes this movie, I don't remember her in this movie. Okay. I'm just going to throw it. I'll throw something out there and I'll just say, I almost said speed. That's Beth Grant. It is Beth Grant. It is Beth Grant.

Okay. What's a boy movie that I know you like that I don't like? I'm just going to get the year fast and the furious. Not Fast and the Furious. is 2016. Oh, okay. So this is right before

Lady Bird. So it is semi-recent. Semit recent, yep. Boy movie from 2016. I'm guessing this is not an Oscar boy movie, but like Blockbuster boy movie.

Not the MCU. I wouldn't maybe say Blockbuster. It's definitely not the MCU. This is a movie that should have made more money than it did. Um, it's a... It's not like edge of tomorrow, is it... No.

Um, it is a very sort of... It's a very autourist movie in that, um, this writer-director very much has a signature style, and it's one I don't think you are particularly attuned to. Um... And when I say it's a boy movie, it's a movie about boys, but I feel like this movie and this filmmaker has a decent, you know, you know, sinophile women also are, you know, into this. Into this person. Yeah, I'm off of that at least.

So it's not like Michael Mann because it's 2016. Right. But is it, it's not like Scott Cooper. No, you're thinking a little too heavy and dark. Okay. So, 2016, though, for this. What's going on in 2016? We've got... It's a real good, like, two big A-list actors are in it. Is it the nice guys? It is the nice guys.

Yeah. I would not call Shane Black an Autour. Shane Black is very much an Autour. There's a Shane Black signature style. Yes. Are you kidding me? He's a studio guy. Yes, but he has an incredibly recognizable signature to him. Okay. In terms of dialogue. I get what you're saying.

You know what I mean? Okay. The nice guys. Yes, it's the nice guys. I'm right. So, for you, I went into the various bends of cinema lore. No. I was like, hmm, what Ben could I do that we've never done?

And apparently we've never done this Ben. I'm, of course, talking about Benedict Cumberbatch. Have we never? Okay, that's interesting. I guess not. I don't find it in the spreadsheet. Imitation game. Imitation game is correct.

Power of the dog. Incorrect. Okay, two recent and two Netflix. Dr. Stream. Dr. Strange is correct. Correct. Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy. Also incorrect.

Damn. All right. What are my years? I feel like this is where this happens very quickly, but your two remaining movies are both from 2013. Okay, 2013, Benedict Cumberbatch. Give me a second to reorient myself. These are, wait, what was happening? 12 years of slave. yes oh are you guessing 12 years a slave yes incorrect oh interesting okay i think he's quite good in that he's not in it very much though but i think he's quite good in that um

um 2013 13 okay so you're missing a big one that i think everybody will fully moved on from interesting But there was like a big deal made about his casting Smaug? Not Smog. But you're on the right path. Okay. So it's a big

blockbuster movie? Oh, Star Trek Into Darkness. Star Trek Into Darkness. Is he con? Is he not con? In the movie he literally says the words, I'm con. Here's what I will say. I think everybody comes out annoying in that one.

I think the movie, the folks behind the were annoying to try and cover that up. But everybody acting like it was an act of... The fans were annoying. But I think even it was beyond the fans. I think there were a lot of people who were like critics and writers and whatnot who got, I would say, a little too angry that the wool was being pulled over their eyes about Star Trek into darkness. Like ultimately... Right. They were like, you lied to me. I asked you this question and you lied to me. Guess what? it's called publicity in PR All right

Star Trek Into Darkness also sucks and like... Well, that's the other thing is people were mad at that movie for being... Sucking. But it was also like in a particularly... I feel like that was the... That was when like Alexander and Kerasuski...

Wait, that was... No, it's not... I of course... It's the other part. Orsi and... Kurtzman. That's who I was thinking of. But then they bounced back with Star Trek Beyond

and that movie is so much fun. But didn't they get a lot in a lot of shit? Not in a lot of shit, but like people were sort of knocking them for being like conspiracy theorist or sort of like false flag. That like there's a false flag narrative in that I feel like it was getting like sociopolitical heat in a way where it was like. Not that I remember. You're you're supporting the Benghazi, you know, investigations by watching this movie or something stupid like that. You know how we, things happen that way.

Anyway, um, 2013, Benedict Cumberbat. It's not like the fifth estate or anything like that, right? It's not, it is not the fifth of state, which I believe is like 2012.

Okay. Well, it's not too far. We've done an episode on that. Don't remember a word I said. Um, is it like a... Is it like a thriller? No.

Is it a comedy? It thinks so. There's funny stuff there, but like this movie is like, we are this. And it's like, no. We are there. You're going to be so mad. Really? Do I like this movie? No.

Okay. Why would you be mad? Because it's a movie we talk about a lot? Maybe not a lot, but maybe quite recently. Really? Like in this episode? Yes. 2013.

Oh, oh my, I always forget that he's in this movie. Because he's so wildly miscast. Yeah, it's August O'Sage County. Everybody who's in that movie gets this on their IMDP. I always forget that he's in it. Little Bill, little Joe, little... Little Charles. Little Charles.

Sorry. Little Bill is unforgiving. The child of Chris Cooper and Margo Martindale, naturally your mind goes to Benedict Cumberbatch. But aside from that, his qualities and the character qualities, miscast, period. Did anybody of note play him in the play in the stage version? I think so. All right. Well, regardless.

Okay. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, listeners. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, love. Thank you life. Thank you, life. That is our episode on Ben is back.

If you would like more, This Had Oscar Buzz, you can and should check out the Tumblr at Thishead Oscar Buzz.com. You should also follow our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. You can join our Patreon at patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. And you can follow Chris and I. Chris, where can they find you? You can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris Fee File. I am on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, Reed, spelled R EID.

You can also subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast of the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at patreon.com slash demi-D-M-E-M-E-P-O-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance, Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. so pin your new dress shirt to your back or something. I don't know, guys. What was happening in that scene? Christmas wishes. Christmas wishes. Christmas wishes. Merry Christmas. And we'll see you next week for more bus.