This Had Oscar Buzz - 327 – On the Road

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

With I’m Still Here garnering praise in this year’s awards race, we thought it would be a great time to talk about Walter Salles – and, well, things turned out great with a surprise Best Picture nomination for Salles and company. After earning stateside honors with films like The Motorcycle Diaries and Central Station, Salles took on an ambitious and … Continue reading "327 – On the Road"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hack and French. Dick Pooh. I shambled after as usual I have done my whole life after the people had interested me.

Because the only people that interest me, the mad ones. We raise our glasses, to living, and to life. The ones who are mad to live, mad to talk. Desire is from everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn to see a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, burn like Roman candles across the night. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast, interrupting the sports ball with fashion.

Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, We're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with the guy who wants me to join him in a threesome, because really, he just wants me to, you know, it's, it's a weird dynamic. Joe Reed. They can't see how I'm shaking my head sadly at all of this, but I'm shaking my head sadly at all of this. Were you also shaking your head sadly at the, at the thwarted threesome of the film?

I'm always shaking my head sadly at thwarted threesomes, especially, thwarted MMF threesome's um oh not an acronym am I yelling I just have to get I have to air this I have new headphones thanks to a beautiful Christmas gift nice and they are very noise cancelling that's nice and I cannot tell if I'm yelling or not you seem to be speaking at a normal volume I however have like the howling winds of in Asheran outside of my window right now.

So if anybody's picking up on that. The Bufelonian Banshees. It's so windy here today. And I'm at like the back of the house. So it's like whooshing up against the windows. And I will say all of our winter recorded episodes always have a little air of stress around them of. Yeah.

Will one of us lose power at some point? Hopefully that's like our Monday night recording episode. Who knows how it's going to go? Who knows? Who knows? For me? Yeah, so, yeah, I'm sad whenever an attempt to have three-way sex goes wrong. It's almost as if in the mid-century, even people who thought that they were very sophisticated had sex issues.

It's true. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot on the table with a movie like On the Road when it comes to sexuality, particularly because I remember at the time, I think my number one interest in this. movie was like, so I hear there's gay sex happening somewhere. Like, I'm just sort of like peeking my head in the room and just boy, what's going on? And then you find out that it's between Garrett Headland and Steve. And Steve Buscemi. Yep. Which, honestly, I'll take it. You know what I mean? Like in this, in this world, in this life. That's a curiosity at this point. You know, we got, I mean, we've gotten some gay sex in the past year, especially from the beat generation writers adapted to the screen. It's true. But, uh, it does. It does. It does. It

feel like gay sex on screen has to be relegated to the, shall we say, non-Bushemys among us. Listen, Steve Bouchemey has made gay movies before. Steve Bouchemey deserves... Parting Glance is one of the best gay movies of all time. He deserves all the spotlight scenes he can get. Yeah. And then not to be seen again. This is one of those movies where I worry that if I say that I maybe liked it a little bit better

than other people liked it, I will get accusatory glances of... Okay. Thank you, because I'm with you. I don't think it's great, but I think it's better than probably it got credit for. And there's little windows in this movie that I really like. While at the, you know, taking a step back, I feel like the movie does kind of... And again, I say this is somebody who's never read on the road, so like I don't know how this differs from the book. As someone who has read on the road,

I don't know how you get a better version of On the Road as a movie than this. I'm a little irked by the way that it kind of wraps up Dean Moriarty and a little bit of a moralistic bow at the end where he's like, well, he lived his life as a bastard

and now he's reaping the rewards by being alone and drug addicted and even Sal won't hang out with him. And then how it wraps it up as a very knowing adaptation of a very famous literary, very famous and influential literary work. I think the last half hour of this movie hits several stumbling blocks, including what you mention. But overall, I think this movie's fine to good. I think it's interesting. I think it's a pretty interesting movie. I think it's gorgeous to look at most of the

time. Well, and not just because of the actors involved, but also because of the actors involved. It's a great cast. It's a great cast full of really, really interesting actors who at on some little level each give, like, I love what Elizabeth Olson's bringing to the table in this movie. I love what Elizabeth. Elizabeth Moss, sorry. Elizabeth Olson would have been. Well, she's in Kill your Darling. She's in one of the other, beat, you know, movies about these these beat generation folks um but no like just all of these locations it's it's also kind of crazy to watch this movie now in the Netflixification the yeah the way that movies just look now and then 10 years ago we have an independent movie that is shooting in multiple countries yeah in the

desert you know these locations it just looks stunning little murky little dark motel rooms and dingy apartments and there's a lot of... Shot by Eric Gautier, who's a cinematographer, we don't talk enough about. And maybe that's because he's largely works in non-American films. So I feel like he's not a name that's really caught on with American cinefiles, but has worked with people like Claude's knee. I think this movie is beautiful to look at. I think some of the critical reception around this movie is...

This is the case of a movie that really, aside from already having the deck kind of stacked against it because of the literary status of Carrowack and Carrowack is not somewhat. People have always tried to adapt Carowac and it never happens. On the Road finally happens. So it's a lot of baggage produced by Coppola, directed by Walter Salas, who's, you know, trying to rebound from his own American remake of a horror movie that didn't. go well um it's a lot of baggage and that can premiere does not go well right the movie gets recut before it you know plays to north american audiences and it's just one of those festival premieres that regardless of the final result has the stain of its first reactions on it and people aren't interested enough at that's maybe ungenerous to audiences but people don't

don't view the movie generously enough to give it some credit yes that's where I landed with this movie I also think and this is something I want to get into sort of on the other side of the plot um that there is something to do with the fact that the beat generation and these sort of like the major figures of it, who in this movie and in other movies tend to be Jack Kerouac, Alan Ginsberg, William S. Burroughs, with Neil Cassidy sort of thrown in there, and with Joan Volmer thrown in there, and various other people. That there's less of an understanding, there's less of a sort of public understanding and a public

the myth the mythologizing of these people stays within a very sort of small and literary and sort of learned circle whereas I tend to compare it to the sort of you know

the free love anti-vietnam flower child hippie generation right which is obviously a lot more represented in film in you know, various, to various degrees of quality and in various, you know, whatever, but like has been highly mythologized. And so you get a ton of those movies. And I want to, I'll get into the specifics of it when we're on the other side of the plot. But just in general, I feel like the

beat generation poses a specific kind of problem to, I would say, particularly the American audiences, where it's like, they know that it's supposed to be a thing and they know it's supposed to be very smart and very, you know, sort of challenging and high-minded. And yet- Influential, or redirect culturally. And yet, most people don't really know specifically what it was about. And they also don't really know what these people kind of stood for

and what these people kind of stood for was this, besides like the stuff that was well articulated was this kind of like literary rigor right it was a literary movement on top you know in addition to a social movement whereas like the hippie generation was a social movement on top of a political movement and that's a lot easier to um wrap your head around whereas contextualize yeah whereas so like so the stuff that becomes good for a movie it's not necessarily, you know, you can't really dramatize a literary movement. So what instead you end up dramatizing is, you know, the kind of wilding out and the, you know, the drug use and the,

the sexual behavior and whatnot, which I think, particularly with these characters, I think that appeals to a smaller sliver of people. Unfortunately, You don't get a wide audience who is looking for very, you know, loosely, loosely reigned in polyamorous, you know, pansexual yearnings and, and experimentations and whatnot. And then beyond sex, you know, experimentation with drugs and... Yeah. Various art forms. Right. in a way that doesn't ever, like, in a way that is never really depicted on screen

in very simple or very kind of easily palatable terms. There's just not a lot to hold on to in terms of its characters, right? The draw of making a movie about the beat generation are the characters. The draw of making a movie about anything to do with the, you know, the hippies and the, you know, the counterculture of the 1960s is Woodstock and Vietnam and the iconography. The Chicago, you know, Democratic Convention. It's just like there's like there's so many events, Watergate and, you know, and the beat generation doesn't have that. What they have is characters and they have really complicated people who, you know, whose revolution was in sort of indulging in that complicatedness and in a way that it makes them often.

look, you know, pretty selfish and pretty, you know. It's a unique set of complications when you're talking about film language versus literary language and the way that those things can be received by an audience, a critical community, a global film community. I think it's a unique set of challenges. And, you know, the difficulty in getting a lot of the difficulty and interest. in getting a lot of these works adapted for the screen, I think really speaks to why it's so difficult.

And almost the way, I think Sal is here, and we'll get into more of what you're saying because I also think I want to talk about a way that it's one of the, you know, weaker sides of the movie. But I think Walter Salas here is made, doing the best like straightforward trying to get at the substance, the texture, the art form as it is, but translating it to a filmic language. I think it's maybe the closest you could get, but still there's problems. Or the other solution in trying to do it is

what Guadonino did with queer, which is like, well, this is, well, this is, my version, an interpretation of it. Because that movie is very much Burroughs filtered through Guadino's whole deal. Yes. Yeah. And even so, that's a very love it or hate it movie. So yeah, I mean, I think Guadonino is almost, it makes so much sense that like that's kind of how you do it. Because this whole subset of American literature, specifically American literature, feels so monolithic in a way in terms of movies that it's like, well, maybe the way to do it is not to, you know, express fidelity to the source. Well, especially because you see this. Or even the tone of the source. You see this time and time again in these adaptations of these, where you're either adapting the work of literature, but in the a way that really blurs the lines between characters and creators. And a lot of that comes from

the source, right? On the road is a very thinly veiled, you know, Sal Paradise is very obviously Kerouac and Dean Moriarty is very obviously, Neil Cassidy. It's going to be very hard to talk about Tom Sturridge or Alan Ginsberg or whoever this character is supposed to be. That's not Alan Ginsberg. Right, right. What is it? Carlo Marx is his name. Sure. And you see that also when Cronenberg adapts Naked Lunch, where he sort of adapts. I guess Naked Lunch is the one. He sort of adapts Naked Lunch, but he also adapts the creation of Naked Lunch. He's adapting Burroughs's life. And, you know, you see a little bit of that. And in a way, it is Burroughs filtered through Kronenberg, too. Right, right. It's the better example than queer is. Well, but I think they, you know, compare interestingly to each other.

That's a video essay waiting to be done by somebody. Somebody do it. But then you also get movies like Howl and like Kill Your Darling's, which sort of bypasses the literature and sort of gets to the sort of real stories behind it. And like I said, I want to sort of like give that a little bit more of a deep dive in a bit. But I think just in general, this is a movie. that people don't really talk about

anymore besides I don't know I feel like people just generally don't talk about this movie anymore This is one of the reasons why I really pushed for us to do this

Also on top of Walter Salas's return With I'm still here And that's a movie We both like Quite a bit And we're both hopeful For how far it can go

In the International Feature Race This year We're obviously recording this Before the nominations Though I think we're all pretty solid on that movie getting nominated.

I really hope it does not get a snub would be a big surprise and not a happy one, I would say. Yeah, Sony Classics knows what they're doing in this category. And they may even get two this year because they also have kneecap. That's right. That's right. I'm still here. It feels destined to land in the should win slot of my will win should win should win when I end up writing my pre-oscure piece. Considering my favorites, at least that are.

shortlisted are Dahomey and universal language considering that they are If universal language gets nominated What am I going to

do? I like that and I'm still here so much I just feel like both of those are unlikely to be nominated

so I guess I'm still here will probably be the one that I'm rooting for What do we think? So we think it's going to be

Amelia Perez Seater the Sacred Fig I'm still here Um Vermilio? Let me pull up this list

Yeah Vermilio, I absolutely believe, will be nominated. That's exactly what that category tends to reward. Is that a pejorative? Is that a pejorative or is that a... Not in this case. I think it's a beautiful movie, but it is kind of straight down the middle in a way that I would be very surprised if it doesn't land in that category. I just want to pull up the list.

Yeah. which one am I saying would be the fifth. There is also flow, excuse me, flow, which could pull off the double nomination? Right, yep. I think Neacap is coming on really strong. Neacap's a fun movie. Neacap has the benefit of, you know, being very different from the rest of these movies. So I do think Neacap would be the one that I would slot in fifth.

I would also maybe say watch out for the UK submission, Santosh, which is also kind of straight up the middle that this category tends to recognize. I feel like I see the girl with the needle show up kind of a lot. partly because it's movie has it you know so distribution does help in this category a lot that isn't necessarily the type of movie that I think gets recognized in this category though it it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world if it ended up making it through yeah but I don't see you know it's never going to be a threat to win in my opinion yeah I think a pretty strong and just in terms of not quite as strong as

maybe last year with you know zone of interest and anatomy of a fall both involved but between Seed of the Sacred FIG, I'm still here Amelia Perez, Universal Language kneecap,

Dahomey. Like there's a lot of movies that feel like flow that feel like they've gotten at least a modicum of conversation out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do think, you know, Even though Amelia Perez will contend elsewhere, perhaps because it will contend elsewhere, there's room for something else to win. And it might not necessarily be the seat of the sacred fig. Right. So this would be, if it happens, this would be Walter Salas's second film to be nominated for the International Future Oscar after Central Station. Correct.

Um, motorcycle diaries was not, was not submitted, was not international enough. I think there are good portions of that movie that are in English, if I remember correctly. So that could have been part of it, but no, it was not a submission for me. I know it definitely was a focus features movie because, like, that was on many, a great many of the focus reel. Of the focus reels. Yes, yes, exactly. Um, Motorcycle Diaries in preparing for this, interestingly is a movie that, played Sundance and then Can Competition. Oh, that's interesting.

Which, you know, sometimes you'll see a movie go to director's fortnight or in regard, but it played main comp, baby. That's very interesting. I'm trying to think of other movies besides kind of the major ones that I could think of here. I guess, I mean, Lord knows it's his only other English language movies. you, right, besides on the road is Dark Water. Yeah, the ill-begotten

Jennifer Connolly horror film. Can I tell you, it's not bad. I re-watched it a couple of Halloweens ago. Interesting. It's not bad. It's not, you know, it's not great. But if you've ever tried to

move, especially and find a new apartment, especially in New York City, you'll understand. You'll understand a lot of the anxieties at play. If you've ever gone to Roosevelt Island, you'll understand, you'll get it. So, yeah, that was kind of coming off of the high of the motorcycle diaries. Do you know what I mean?

It felt probably like Walter Salas is coming. He's going to make a splash, and it just didn't happen, unfortunately. Who's in his Parish Jetem segments? Catalina Sandino Moreno. Oh, lovely. Have you ever seen Central Station? No, I never have. See, the thing, that movie hasn't been particularly available.

I think it's been on and off available on Canopy to people who have access to Canopy. Right. But I really hope that movie becomes available and in a good version soon so people can catch up to it. Because I watched it on a very grummy library DVD. So even I haven't really seen a pristine version of it. but it's a great movie. And Fernando Montenegra is one of my favorite lead actress nominations of the 90s. Just an incredible performance.

You know what? It lost that international feature, or then foreign language film. In 98? Yeah. To what? Oh, to Life is Beautiful, of course. Roberto, Roberto. Not a good movie.

Yeah, no. Not a good movie. But a memorable international feature category that year, obviously. And hey, maybe they can do the same that they did for Benigni for Walter Salas this year, and they can give it the international win, and they can give it a lead-acting win or nomination for Fernando Torres, a performance we both love. Fernando Torres, who is Fernando Montenegro's daughter, a thing I didn't know for a while,

and then I watched all of I'm still here and then the other thing that I didn't realize is that Fernander Montenegro is in that movie at the end and I was like

gobsmacked again so I was just like all right this is fantastic I believe her screen credit is like special appearance by or something like that I love that

I love that even more reason for me to love that movie I'm still here as a movie that didn't hit me right away it was like I was eyeball deep and Tiff and that was the worst time to see it. Yeah.

Just because I think with so much adjacency to other movies, I couldn't really appreciate in the moment what it was doing that was so different than other movies. Right. How you access into this story of this very famous figure who, you know, became a very important political activist. And, you know, it's, you access into this story by basically being dropped into, the family and we get a family story and we follow the matriarch through this process of you know political silencing basically and I think that's such a genius way to access a political figure because the movie does the thing at the end where it's like and here's photos of the

real person and here's all the things they go on to do but it's really about one person who happened to be a real person and the events and the circumstances that led to their political activation. Well, this is the thing. And one of the things that it does so smartly is

that it, you know, it depicts the, you know, the metaphor of, you know, the lobster in the slowly boiling pot of water, right? Where all of a sudden you don't quite know quite how hot the temperature is until something happened.

It's too late. It's too late. Yeah. And, you know, I'm still here sort of tells this story of the, you know, this fascist regime in Brazil who's disappearing people. And this family is essentially just sort of like, well, we are, we, you know, represent the last political. order, right? The political order from before. My husband was a parliamentarian for it. And, you know, we're going to ride this out and, you know, the winds will change and whatever. And we're going to do a little bit of, you know, resistance work. And then a little bit. And then it becomes, you know, passing information secretly because if you, you know, get caught passing information more publicly. And then you're doing slightly less. And then your children are teenage years. And all of a sudden, the teenagers are getting caught up in this. And then you're making the decision, do we send our teenage daughter away for school so that she's safe? And then the thing happens, the big sort of changing

event of the movie happens. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, now we're not in, we're not making these small little decisions. We are in the thick of violent, scary political repression, and we are the victims of it. And how do we move on from that? And also, how do we defy that by keeping our family together, by being sort of defiant as a family? It's a... Because it's as much the story about this one woman as it is the story of a family. Or a political movie. And I think that's kind of where the power of the movie lies. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's

something that we, you know, when we talk about biopics and stories of real people, you know, it always feels a little bit behind glass or, you know, behind the pages of a history book. Yeah. And we need something that drops us in that it's like, well, I can relate to that

on a human circumstances level. And I think family is the way that this movie does it. It's also Oh, just at its baseline, a really gripping story. Like, it really, like, it moves, it has a forward propulsive motion. You are sort of, like, leaned forward the whole way. I was really at a, I saw this on sort of a trip to New York where I saw a bunch of screenings in a few days.

And, you know, it was a little, you know, film festivally whirlwind kind of a thing. And I needed something to sort of just, like, grab me by the collar and be like, pay attention to this. And it really does. For us here in the U.S., I imagine for some people, it's going to play even better after the election than it did beforehand. And I mean, whatever it takes to get resonance for this movie. I hope this movie comes on strong at the point that this episode will be. I think I saw it like two days after the election.

Oh, so yeah, you're really just like, oh, God. Oh, boy. Was it something? Was it a real experience? So, yeah. But I, back to sort of, you know, Walter Salas in general, this truly an international sort of production on the road and that, like, Francis Ford Coppola had the rights to it for years and years and years, kept trying to make it himself was, what you call it, was, this was set with a whole bunch of, at various points, different actors. And initially, different directors. The initial idea in like the 1950s, Kerouac wanted to do it, be part of the project himself, where he would play Sal Paradise, the character based on himself, and Marlon Brando would play Dean Moriarty, and they'd just fix a dashboard cam on the road and have it just be like

him and Brando, I guess, off-screen talking through the whole movie. Which sounds insane. And how much would you have to pay Marlon Brando to never see his face? It's so funny. And yet like, and then Coppola buys the rights and like right around Apocalypse Now Times, wants to write, co-write it with his son, Roman, wanted to shoot it in black and white on 16 millimeter. And then through the years had different cast members. Ethan Hawk and Brad Pitt were attached one time at one point. Ethan Hawk was going to play Sale Paradise,

Brad Pitt to play Dean Moriarty, which feels like you can kind of pinpoint exactly the year that that was part of those. That has a very 1994-194ness to it. Billy Crudup was attached at one point. Colin Farrell, Crutup and Colin Farrell would have been the pair, which again,

tells you exactly when that version was going to go. And Schumacher was going to direct that when Schumacher and Colin Farrell were having there. I can't imagine Joel Schumacher doing this material. Granted, like, we love Joel Schumacher here. Not all

movies, not all Joel Schumacher movies look and sound and move like Batman Forever. Right. But, yes. Even so. There's also the line on the Wikipedia that just says, Gus Van Sant also expressed interest in making the film. Oh, did he? Of course he

did. This movie, like, I mean, in a way, my own private Idaho kind of is the best adaptation of, you know, of on the road that, you know, got me. Yeah, but that's Shakespeare. Yes, but it's also Shakespeare delivered through this very, you know, Sal Paradise and Dean Moriarty kind of a relationship. This certain, you know, 30-year chunk of Americana. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. We can't get into my own private Idaho. I will, I'll be gone.

You will not be able to rein me back in. Before we get too much further in the movie, would you like to tell our listeners about our Patreon? Hey, I sure would. This Had Oscar Buzz has a Patreon. We have had it for a while called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. For the low, low cost of $5 a month, you will get two bonus episodes every month. One of these episodes, which arrives on the first Friday of every month, is an exceptions episode. It is a movie that fits the usual.

This Had Oscar Buzz Rubrik. Great Expectations. for awards and disappointing results, even though the movie got an Oscar nomination or two in the end and thus making it ineligible for our flagship show. We've had movies in the past, such as The Lovely Bones, and Australia, which we did with our good friend Katie Rich, Vanilla Sky, W.E., House of Gucci, Far from Heaven,

my best friend's wedding, The Mirror Has Two Faces, Charlie Wilson's War. we have coming soon we're so excited we have another guest on the way we are doing speaking of jill schumacher the phantom of the opera the phantom of the opera the musical adaptation of andrew lloyd weber's indelible musical of phantom of the opera and for that episode we are welcoming back our uh our wonderful guest natalie walker to talk about that movie with us we could not be more excited have not recorded that episode yet but um very very very very keyed up for that. Second bonus episode every month is what we call an excursion. We talk about various pieces of Oscar and movie watching ephemera that aren't necessarily one specific movie.

So we'll watch an old award show. We'll pour through an old EW fall movie preview. We did the movie line issue with Jennifer Lopez's infamous interview in there. We talk about Hollywood would report a roundtables. Coming in February, the second annual, this had Oscar Buzz superlatives, where we pick and choose the odd little awards. It's the burnt ends of award season, really, where we take the little, the irregulars from all the different award shows, the NBI Freedom of Expressum Award, the AARP. What's the one we steal from the AARP?

I think we've done in a generational. Love Story or... Grown-up Love Story. Basically, anything from any of these precursor awards that is kind of unique to it. And we assemble that together into an award show and we give our choices for the best of the year. And we had a ton of fun last time. We're going to have a ton of fun this time. So if any of this sounds like a good time to you, honestly, if one of the many things that

I just mentioned sounds good to you, five dollars a month is pretty, you know, is pretty cheap to get that kind of enjoyment. So you can go. Hey, we've had about a year and a half worth of episodes just waiting for you. There's a whole treasure trove if you want to sign up now. Truly, you are getting away with murder with just that $5 a month. We are getting taken for a ride here, y'all. So take advantage of us, please. Just rob us blind. My God. Go to our Patreon. Oh, that's the other thing is during awards season. And that's, actually during the whole year, but like especially during award season, we're going to be popping in with little mini episodes about the various signposts of award season. Anytime something major happens or even something. As they wrap up. Not so major. Yes, we're getting into the end of award season. We are still popping in with our little mini episodes. And then once we get past Oscar season, they're not going to be as frequent. But there's still going to be some occasion to pop in the many episodes. There's going to be Canton Film Festival stuff. South by Southwest. going to happen. Maybe a major movie trailer drops that we feel like has a big impact on

Oscar season. Maybe they've announced the host. Maybe they've, you know, God forbid, announced a new category. We will be here to pop in at random. You're not going to know when we're coming. So the only way to be truly prepared is to be subscribed for $5 a month. You can go to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz and join the festivities. Speaking of going for a ride, we are here talking about On the Road, directed by Walter Salas, written by Jose Rivera, celebrated playwright Jose Rivera, the writer of the motorcycle diaries. So this is also a reunion of sort. Look at that. Obviously, adapted from the novel by Jack Carrowack. Hey, Jack Carowack. starring Sam Riley, Garrett Headland, Kristen Stewart, and then in a slew of cameos, alphabetically speaking, we have Amy Adams, Alice Braga, Steve Buscemi, Kirsten Dutz,

Terrence Howard, Vigo Mortensen, Lizzie Moss, and Tom Sturridge. Tom Sturridge is less of a cameo than a supporting player. Tom Sturridge, spoiler alert, we're going to get into it, is so good in this movie. Best performance in the movie. Tom Surge is great in this movie. Great. Absolutely great. Yep. The movie World premiered in competition at the Cannes Film Festival.

It was a North American premiere at TIF and then opened. I don't know if this was a, I wish that there was a catalog of qualifying releases or limited releases. Because the movie opened limited or a qualifying release December 21st, 2012. Fun for the whole family at Christmas. and then expanded in the following March. Expanded in the following March, which tells you exactly how well it performed an award season if it waited until...

Under $100,000. After the Oscars to open. Yeah. Good job qualifying it. This is what I mean that, like, the bad can reception just basically killed the movie moving forward, period. Yeah. Even though he went back and re-edit it.

It's about, like, 15 minutes shorter than the version that it would be able to be. premiered it can. Indeed. Joseph, speaking of 15 minutes shorter, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of the motion picture on the road? I mean, I did no preparation for this, so this is going to be a real shit show, but sure, yes. All right, then your 60-second plot description of On the Road starts now. All right, Sam Riley plays Sail Paradise.

He's the Jack Kerouac character. He and his friend, which one is he friends with even at the time? It's Carlo Marx, right? Alan Ginsberg, played by Tom Sturage. They meet Dean Moriarty, who's really Neil Cassidy, who is played by Garrett Headland. Dean Moriarty, they meet him. He's, like, stark naked and has just been having sex with Kristen Stewart. And he's all about sort of this, you know, bohemian lifestyle. 30 seconds.

Jesus Christ. Has, like, women in every city. And, but also takes a real shine to Sal. Sal teaches him to write. Sal's this really good writer. Meanwhile, Carlo marks Alan Ginsberg, is absolutely in love with Dean Moriarty in a way that is like not super helpful, healthy for anybody. 10 seconds. Nope. Much of the movie involves Sal sort of going from place to place.

Sometimes with Dean, sometimes on his own. They go to Denver. They go to San Francisco. Sometimes Kristen Dunst is there. as Dean's wife. Sometimes he's going back to, back east to meet up with Kristen Stewart again. At some point, we run into Vigo Mortensen, who's playing Old Bullie, who is really William Os Burroughs, who was married to Amy Adams and her wackadoo hair wig situation, which is crazy. Half of the people in this movie are on heroin or some other kind of drugs. Dean's lifestyle is not at all sustainable.

He is alienating people left and right. Ultimately, Sal's infatuation with Dean's freedom, takes a backseat to Sal getting his shit together. And eventually he leaves Dean behind, and Dean is dirty and sad the end. 51 seconds over. What would you have done besides prepare? Besides actually, like, get your shit together. What would you have done other than literally annotate everything that happened? I mean, this is where the 60-second plot description,

can be a failed experiment sometimes that we do here on this show because it's like, I say on the road and you get it, you get it. They're on the road. Listener, I'm sure you've went through a high school literary class enough to know who Jack Kerouac is. I could have mentioned every single time

that Sal and Dean go out to a music club and, you know, see someone play in jazz and see... There's some type of... sexual scenario and you're left wondering if they're just going to go fuck and they almost have a threesome and eventually they do have a threesome except not really because then it sounds like dean sounds like i gotta go this is too weird well so here's here's the you know the love rombus of it all right where it's like carlo is in love with dean dean is in love with mary lou who is christin stewart's

character. Dean is also kind of in love with Sal and Sal's also kind of in love with Dean, but it's like an 80% intellectual, 20% sexual thing going on. Mary Lou at some point also falls for sale or just wants to have sex with him to get back at Dean. Kirsten Dunst plays Camille, who is in love with Dean, but also at some point seems to have a thing for sale. Um... William S. Burroughs is depicted as, like, fairly non-sexual in this, which is so funny after seeing queer. But, I don't know.

And, like, there's a lot of sex in the movie. You see a lot of flesh. The only graphic nudity is that we see Vigo Mortensen's balls from behind. Well, we do. We sure do. I mean, you get a couple of real good shots of Garrett Headland's bum, and that's really fun. The Burroughs stuff is very queasy. I mean, rightfully so, queasy.

You see Mortensen as Burroughs over the phone at first, but then when we're introduced to him in his home, he's cradling a child while having, based off of his, you know, he's still tied off from his doing heroin. Yeah, we believe that he's also just shot up heroin. Yeah, yeah. He still got the tourniquet on his arm, yeah. Yeah.

And, you know. And Amy Adams playing his wife is also clearly on drugs and is going out into the garden at night to watch the lizards. To swat at the lizard. And yet the next morning she's, and yet like we get that really kind of great scene that does not pass the Bechdel test, unfortunately, but it's still a really good scene with Kristen Stewart, Elizabeth Moss, and Amy Adams in the kitchen where they're, they're talking about how Amy Adam, or about how Elizabeth Mosh... Euphemistically, because a child is present. Right, but how Elizabeth Mosh should just give a

a lojab already, and Kristen Seard has that great line where she's like, you'll like it too. Like, that kind of thing. But I really like that scene, and even if it is about you know, how to... Well, it's a scene where they do feel

like people and not, you know, literary objects. I feel like this episode, is going to be me talking myself into disliking the movie as much as everybody else does. But I do think this is a better movie than its critical reception was, with the caveat being it has its obvious problem. I imagine the tenor of the critical reaction to this movie was that its surfacy skin deep does not really, you know, get to the, you know, is not a is not a worthy adaptation. of this book and is also fairly sexist. But also, I think it's hard to adapt this in a version that's not.

I agree. I mean, like, ultimately, these are stories about shitty guys. Well, it's also a story where everybody is playing an alias that everybody knows is representative of a real person. So, like, there's surfacy stuff that is kind of baked into it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And maybe this is where I say the, the, it's. in terms of adapting the beat generation and how the beat generation is not just about the literary style and that's the point.

Not anything that happens plot-wise and like, yes, there's these characters who are figures, but, you know, we're not, you're not dealing with things that are really all that interesting in terms of character development, but it's the context in which they also lived and what they were budded. up against the things that they were trying to protest against. I think one of the problems with On the Road as a movie is that we get kind of no context. In a way, like it makes it feel like this experiential dropped in kind of movie that I think works to its benefit. But at a certain point in the movie, it is missing something of that that tells us why this is so interesting and important of a literary. every time that we would be adapting it into a movie is that like we don't ever see that straight society we do I guess when we see Sal's family the ideal way that ever feels like this here's an example of the thing that they are budding up against if anything when they

visit Sal's family it's like oh no these people that we've been following they're the fuckups they're the problem you know I think the ideal way to experience on the road is to program it immediately following something like saving private riot or like it's a wonderful life whereas like and then and then ask the audience to comprehend the fact that like this these are chronologically adjacent to each other that like this stuff that is happening on the road is happening within years of the boys coming home from war and these are either the younger siblings of the people who went away to war or sometimes they are. are people who went away to war or sometimes there, you know what I mean? It's just like,

it's this generation of like, how do you follow up, you know, this, you know, this greatest generation of, you know, of these very consequential things that happen. And then you come back and you come back to a society. And it's not like, it's not like the beat generation was particularly racially conscious, but you come back to a very, as you said, straight society, a very kind of morally, rigid, artistically rigid, you know. This is also one of the complaints a lot of critics had is that Dean Moriarty, as depicted by Garrett Headland, who I think is pretty great in this movie, is not as written, and Dean Moriarty is a much more, is not this enigmatic sexual figure. He's this rambling, erratic type of guy.

And that, like, you're also talking about things like mental health and you're talking about, you know, a societal schism in that regard as well. I think I don't disagree with that criticism of the Moriarty character, although I do agree with you. I think Garrett Hedlin's really good. I think this movie does kind of veer a little bit more towards more standard. movie about, you know, a free, you know, a quote-unquote, like radically free character who is observed from the outside by people who wish they could be like that. And then, you know, and then it all sort of, you know, falls apart. And I do, I do agree that that's maybe a little bit too clean. I think it comes across better. I think if you have a stronger performance by

Sam Riley, who I have liked in other things, but I don't think he's super great in this. Sam Riley, who I never saw control the Anton Corbyn movie that made him a figure. And now he mostly does, like, character roles. Yeah. I don't know what an actor could do to make that character interesting. It's a, it's the most thankless character. right? Because he's he's your narrator, he's your

you know, he's your looking glass into the movie um yeah, you're not wrong. Remember when he played a bird and maleficent mistress of evil and the first mollessuscent actually um, uh, that was he's doing character roles and birds now.

Yeah, um, you don't see him kind of at all. He's also like, it's not like he's in like a bunch of TV either, which you would sort of think, um, at this point. He's in firebrand. He's the, In the... Firebrand, not a bad movie. Recently, BAFTA, long-listed movie, Firebrand. Bafta is... Firebrand was a movie that had a bad reception for basically just being a normal movie at Cannes.

I don't know. I mean, like, Kareemaynoos is an interesting filmmaker, and he's part of the Cannes club now. But I feel like, because that movie was just like, just normal. Yeah. It was part of the reason for its reception it can. I had fun with that movie. That movie basically asked the question, what if Jude Law was Henry the 8th,

but like rotting leg Henry the 8th? Like, it's just Jude Law with a gross leg. Great. That's enough for me. But sort of backing up to your point about context in this movie is I have the thought watching it of, is it at all possible to watch a movie about people from this particular generation and have any idea really what it is they were coming from.

You know what I mean? Like how much of a leap it was to go from the Great Depression to World War II to then, we are going to now essentially break off from this incredibly conservative, like not even like, well, I don't want to say that. There are aspects of American life at that time that were very restrictive, obviously, for a lot of people. But we get none of that in this movie. And I think, you know, the audience kind of needs that. It needs that context a little bit.

And I think maybe we would understand why we're sitting here and watching that story, why these people are not just, you know. But is it just that you end up with just a bunch of scenes of like, no, Sunday. of mine will blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And because it's, it's not just sort of they're rebelling against, like, their home life. Yeah, it's the world around them. It's the whole world. And, and, and, and it's fairly invisible sort of things. It's things like commercialism and materialism. And it's things like the emergence of pre-packaged foods and. Right, right, right, exactly. Or like there's a mayonnaise sandwiches. There's the one line in this, where Sal makes a sort of, like, scoffing comment about how MacArthur, there's this

headline about how General MacArthur has made it illegal to kiss in public in Japan, in post-war reconstructionist Japan or whatever. And he's like, who does that guy think he is? And then the, you know, adults in the room are just like, oh, you know, the disrespect shown to General MacArthur or whatever. So you get a little bit of that, I suppose. But whereas I think it's, again, not to, you know, bring up the hippies again, it's so much easier to see what they were rebelling against because there was a war. You know what I mean? There was a war that they didn't want. There was, you know, there was corruption. There was political corruption that they were, you know, fighting against. And you don't really get that as much with the beat generation. And, you know, and also, again, they were doing things like, you know, rebel you get a little bit of that and kill your darlings i guess where they're like rebelling against the structures of modern poetry you know what i mean it's just like free verse and and that's a little that's a hard thing to kind of make a movie about the advantage that the

beat movies have is that like half of these people murdered people you know what i mean it's just like burroughs killed somebody and fucking um the guy dain de han plays and kill your darlings killed somebody and all these people are getting into like fucking boozy knife fights at 4 a.m. in Harlem or whatever the fuck. And it's like that's at least interesting. I mean, that's all before you even get into the conversation of how they treated women. And even I feel bad for Kristen Stewart in this movie because I mean, I love Chris. I think she's great in this movie though. Do you not? For like what she really has to work with. Sure. But yeah. Sure. But like there's not a whole lot to marry Lou, and that's because these men and even the men who, you know, these men in their literary works.

I mean, Mary Lou is a 16-year-old. And Mary Lou is little more than a sexual object. Yeah. I think the movie maybe has a different lens on that than, you know, the original literary work does. Yeah. But there's still not all that much on a character level. But, I mean, like, in a different way than the men. What's funny, though, is that because, yes, you know, the fact that she's 16 and the dean, you know, has taken up with her and whatever is immoral, right?

And you think, well, maybe morality has a point then. And it's like, well, the morality of the time wasn't exactly, you know, sticking up for that. The morality at the time was just being like, wait a couple years and then marry her and then she's your, you know, then she's your possession. You know what I mean? And then I think when we lose. the full context that these people existed in, then we lose the kind of complexity and maybe the type of questions that we would ask, you know, that makes these works endure that like have the kind of context. And seeing the full picture of it. You know, that just because

it was countercultural doesn't mean that it was all great and positive. There's still certain toxicities that exist in the counterculture that exist in the straight-laced culture. Well, also, there wasn't a ton of, it's not like they were all working off of one particular set of instructions or like a cohesive ethos even. They were all- Yeah, because you're talking about a time period that Mary Lou is 16, but oh, if she got married and had a baby at 16, that would be fine. Right, this is what I mean.

Like, that would have been moral, that would have been, you know, in keeping with the morality of the time. So it's not like the morality of the time was any great shakes either. But you have, it's a movement that is sort of almost defined after the fact. And like these people didn't see themselves as part of a movement. They saw themselves as, you know, sort of subscribe, you know, maybe subscribing to different modes of intellect or art or, you know, living or whatever. But I think they were just sort of doing, you know, deciding that they were going to experience the world in a way that was not beholden to the restrictions of their, you know, previous generations or whatever. And a lot of that is really selfish. You know what I mean? Like

experiencing the world without strictures is kind of an inherently selfish act. And we, we, you know, we lionize people for this. I mean, maybe that's what on the road is ultimately because ultimately, this is a, you know, story about Sal sort of looking at somebody like Dean, who does that, who has, you know, cast off any kind of shackles and is, you know, leaping into the world and, you know, experiencing all this stuff. I find that way watching the movie a little bit. And it's not like I watch this and it's just like, man, I wish I could woman

eyes like that. But you watch this, any kind of movie where it's like a kind of intellectually wrangled, sexually multifaceted, you know, situation, I'm always just like, that sounds at least momentarily very fun. That sounds like a thing that would have been really, to have been in that kind of like charged environment, there's the scene where Ginsberg, where Tom Sturridge's character is sort of in the middle of this party and he's kind of, you know, not rambling necessarily, but sort of just like very quickly just sort of like talking about his, you know, his relationship with Dean in front of like a whole bunch of people and sort of explaining this and that. And everybody is either

sort of like intellectually engaged with him or flirting with him or you know and then they all just you know there's you know there's dancing and there's kissing and there's sex and whatever and it's just like at the very least that kind of sounds fun you know what I mean like that kind of sounds like a good time and this is also at a time where New York City rents

were maybe 5% of what they are today yeah yeah yeah so no I love the I mean the party scenes in this are honestly so well done. I mean, there's elements of, I also think, you know, some of the earlier passages where it truly is just jetting back and forth,

you know, the Alice Braga sequence. Yeah. The first half of this movie, I do think the way that it's structured, it is structured in a way that I'm like, he maybe left like two hours on the cutting room floor of this movie. Right.

You know, there is some super long version of this that is whittled down. Sure. It feels, you know, what we would now think of as Maliki in its... Yeah, at some point he's down in Mexico and he's maybe dying of a fever and Dean leaves him there. I don't quite... And then he's back. Yeah, I was like, I don't quite know if I really got a handle on like what that whole interlude was, but like, okay, go for it, you know. Yeah.

So of these... It's not just to dog on the movie. I do think Salas is... doing structurally and making this, doing things cinematically that can make it feel like what it's like to read a beat generation book. Yeah. That feels like the straightforward direct way to do the movie that is nevertheless difficult to pull off. And I think that the movie does a good job in those stretches. So if any of our listeners want to sort of, if you feel like, you know, creating a little project for yourself and

want to do, you know, your little beat generation film festival or whatever. I want to see how many of these you've seen or know about. Do you, have you ever see the Paul Mazursky movie Next Stop Greenwich Village? Yes, I love Missursky. I have never seen it, but like, given this cast, just for the fact alone that it stars Shelly Winters, Ellen Green, and Lois Smith, makes me want to watch it. And that Julius keeps a poster of it. Oh, really?

That's fantastic. It's somewhere in there, yeah. That makes sense. Definitely is going on my list of things that I want to see, but I've never seen it. Naked Lunch, of course, as I mentioned, is Kronenberg's adaptation of the deeply surreal William S. Burroughs book that I tried to watch one time, and there were so many cockroaches in the first scene that I was just like, I don't know if I can do it. And then, like, at some point, there's a giant talking beetle, and I think I was just like, I tagged out.

I was just like. I mean, like, everything is kind of vaguely bug-like. also sexual, so it's like mixing up sexual imagery with insect imagery. I'm going to give it another go. It's maybe not your vibe. I'm going to give it another go, but I'm just going to be cringy the whole time because I hate bugs so much. I think as a Kronenberg work, it feels too far in the realm of academic Kronenberg for me. I understand why people might love that one. I feel like it was critically acclaimed, though, right? Was that not?

It was. I remember. I think it was like the New York film critics really showed up for that movie. It's just not the Kronenberg for me. Yeah. 2000, there's a Gary Walcow movie called Beat that stars Courtney Love as Joan Vollmer, Kiefer Sutherland as William S. Burroughs, Norman Reedis as Lucien Carr, who was the other murderer I was talking about from Kill Your Darling's. Ron Livingston as Alan Ginsberg, Daniel Martinez as Jack Kerouac. I have never seen this movie. I'm not uninterrigued. It was a Sundance movie in 2000. I'll watch a Courtney Love movie. You know what I mean?

Sure. I'll do that. That sounds fun. Howell, the 2010 movie Howell, directed by Rob Epstein and Jeffrey Friedman, who directed the Times of Harvey Milk and the Celluloid closet, documentaries I really love about the 1957 obscenity trial of Alan Ginzburg for his poem Howl starring James Franco which kind of like puts it like wah-wa on this but I remember being very very interested in this because it's like James Franco and Aaron Tivate are playing

you know boyfriends or whatever like I was I was pretty purient about this but Interesting now that I can be like, well, James Franco's terrible casting for Alan Ginsberg. Yes, he is, actually. And like, I don't think I ever heard that at the time. This was when he was doing like 12 movies a year and he was directing half of them and he was also going to school at fucking NYU and he was also being in general hospital and he was gay baiting and everything and whatever, whatever. But like the cast in this, John Hamm, David Stratharine, Alessander Navola, Mary Louise Parker, Bob Balaban, Jeff Daniels, Treat Williams, like. I remember seeing this movie, and I retained none of it, absolutely none of it. I don't think it was supposed to be all that great.

It wasn't, but it should have been because I think a movie about the obscenity trial for Howl is a really, like, honestly, you're going to yell at me. Aaron Sorkin would have been a real interesting choice for Howell, consider it. I think if Aaron Sorkin was writing about Allen Ginsberg, half of the world would explain. I know. Like, that is not exactly. I will also defend Sorkin, but I think kind of absolutely not. No. On the road comes a couple of years after Howl, and then the year after on the road is Kill Your Darlings, which is John Croquitos directs.

Daniel Radcliffe playing Allen Ginsberg, which is sort of what got most of the attention for this movie. Dane DeHan is Lucian Carr, Michael C. Hall, is David Cameron. Jack Houston plays Jack Kerouac in that movie, Ben Foster, plays William Burroughs in that movie, which, like, if you think about the dynamics that exist between those characters in On the Road, and then the dynamics between those characters in Kill Your Darling's, it's very different. They're basically, like, I guess he's technically older than Jack Houston in Kill Your Darling's, but it doesn't have this, like, old lion and young buck kind of thing that exists between Burroughs. and carouac in on the road. Elizabeth Olson plays Eadie Parker in that movie. Who else? Jennifer Jason Lee plays Allen Ginsberg's mother. So that's a movie I was very much excited about, and I remember liking it. I did like that movie.

I think, but like that's really faded. That was a Sonya Pictures classics movie, but like nobody talks about that kind of at all anymore. I think it was a really interesting stepping stone. for Daniel Radcliffe to that sort of like really interesting series of movies he did to kind of move him out of the Harry Potter realm that I feel like ultimately has borne fruit considering he is essentially, you know, liberated from, he's never going to not be associated with Harry Potter. But as an actor, he has a full career that is absolutely absent. He's never going to have to go back to that.

I don't, like, famous last words, but I really don't think we're ever going to see Daniel Radcliffe back in a Harry Potter or anything ever again. Like the TV show movie, not a winking cameo. I hope not. I hope not. And I don't think so just because I feel like he's worked so hard to, you know, get to this point, you know, maybe the other two will convince him to do it. I don't know. But anyway, since we were on the Ginsburg topic, let's talk about Tom Stur. who I think is the best performance in the movie.

He gives them a lot along. The scenes where he's talking about his love for Dean Moriarty feels like the movie could break into a whole different movie. Yes. But even besides like any of the... I mean, Alton Ginsburg is obviously a very famous gay figure. Yeah, yeah. It's... You described the party scene where it's like he just...

goes on one of those little, like, verbal, like, unfurlings. And Sturge does that so well. It also, like, the way that I was like, there's probably a four-hour version of this movie that existed at some point. I would believe that none of Tom Sturge's scenes were cut. He's just so good. And when he leaves the movie, you wish you could follow him where he's going. You know what I mean?

His material is more interesting. You know, there's... He has this scene where he's talking to Sal, as you just mentioned, where he's essentially explaining what his and Dean's whole deal is. And he's sort of defending himself as being more of like, I'm not, I don't not understand what this is. I understand what this is. And yet, I am in love with him. And it's made me sort of, you know, come into this realization of, you know, about myself. And he's, he's clearly... absolutely infatuated with this guy, while also trying to hold on to his sense of self at the

same time, and his sense of, you know, he does not want to just sort of be pathetic in this situation. And it's hugely, hugely emotional. And I think he carries it off really well. He absolutely does not take any shortcuts with this character. He doesn't, you know, undercut him with, you know, ticks or, you know, anything like that. He's, you know, fully, you know, respects his character's emotional truth. And it's wonderful. It's really lovely. I think he's really fantastic. I think if the movie was even a little bit better considered, somebody might have, you know, taken a flyer on nominating him for something. Yeah, I think he's wonderful. I've always been a fan of Tom Sturridge. I, you know, I don't know, we're probably never going to get any more of the Netflix Sandman series, given all the Neil Gaiman stuff that's been happening with.

We could get another Tom Sturge Tony nomination. He's a twice nominated. Yes. For. Tony's stage performer. Shit, what was it? The seawall? Was it Seawall, a life? Right.

And then the other one was the Orphans Revival. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Kristen Stewart at this time. Yes, was still doing

Twilights, right? Big in the twilight time. So, of course, the big thing that people latch on to, at least in the press, is that she's doing sexy, she's got nudity in this movie, which was gross at the time,

but even grosser to think about now the type of performer that Kristen Stewart becomes, who is, like, honestly one of my favorite working actors. Is this also the same year that she does Snow White and the Huntsman and all that sort of awful?

press cycle. Yes. Possibly. It was. Yeah. Which like remember how awful people were about that in the press and about how she, of course, that has the affair with the director of that movie. And people were so vicious and you broke Rob's heart and all this sort of stuff. And which have they ever come out and said this was a PR relationship? They haven't come out specifically. They've definitely still talk about how they are good friends. I was going to say, which I love. But they don't talk about dating. Right. I'm glad that they have that together, though, because I imagine there was a lot of their life in the press that was fairly traumatizing. I mean, my big mea culpa is all during those twilight years, I was not incredibly generous to Kristen Stewart, not for the Snowyton and the Hunsman. thing, but in the, she never looks, she always looks like she'd rather be anywhere, but wherever she was, you know what I mean? She was, every time she would do, and you blame her. Well, kind of no, this is the thing, which is just like, anytime she was doing any kind of public appearance whatsoever, it was, you know, hide behind the hair and whatever, and it was just like, and I remember being like, for Pete's sake, you know what I mean, just, you know, then then don't do this. And of course, that's a very naive way, you know, to think because obviously

all that stuff is contracted. All that stuff is, you know, that's part and parcel of this whole thing. And all of the questions she's being asked are brain dead questions. And I can't imagine. Or sexist questions. You can tell somebody that they should have anticipated whatever level of fan derangement, um, exists. And yet I don't think you can ever actually prepare for that. I don't think. Probably not. You can ever be prepared for just how invested and nasty and too familiar all of, you know, all of that fandom would be. Even the ones who are well-intentioned, even, you know, it's just, I don't ever imagine.

I can never imagine that somebody can properly prepare themselves for just how much that is. So, yeah, I feel bad about that. Stuart, I don't think she's amazing here. I think she's good. I like that thing you mention of everybody's, like, she always looks so miserable. There is so much life in her in this movie that it does feel like an antithesis to what the narrative was around her at the time. But I do still think it's like, this is a stepping stone towards the greater performances she would have working with people like Asayas. And I think also, like you mentioned her relationship with Pattinson and how there, you know,

there is an interesting thing that came out of that franchise that we have these two largely a tour focused actors who I think are so very, very interesting. Yes. Who were treated unfairly at the time somewhat because of the material. I should go back and revisit the Twilight movies because all I really remember of it was thinking that those two were fine and Taylor Lautner was so abhorrently awful

but never got the level of criticism that those two got. Oh, that's interesting. I feel like he's... Well, I mean, like she got the most criticized because, obviously, misogyny and like people were very misogynistic about that franchise.

Yeah, but ultimately, who ends up? up benefiting from that franchise. It's her and Pattinson. And Lotner got a couple of movies. Yeah, and quite literally no one else. Maybe Dakota Fanning on occasion. Well, and like, I mean, Anna Kendrick sort of moved up through there, but nobody ever really talks about that. And like, um, what's his face? Like Kellyn Lutz had a moment. Nicky Reed had a moment. Um, what's, oh, what's the girl's name? Ashley Green, I feel like, was in a couple of things. You know I find Jackson Rastbone's face to be fascinating. Yeah, the Twilight movies, I think some are better than others.

I like Eclipse, even though nobody really likes Eclipse. I think Bryce Dallas Howard's kind of fun in that movie. And then, of course, the ending, the end credits to the whole series, which is absolutely hilarious and bizarre. I will watch that just itself. I never saw the last one. I love Bill Condon. supporting Bill Conton, even though I think he has made post-Chicago the best and worst movie musicals. I'm going to ride for Bill Condon.

Bill Condon saw Ryan Murphy look at him willing to let him drown one time. So now Bill Condon has decided to make as much money as possible so that he can keep himself safe. And I'm, you know what? More power to you, Bill Condon. He's got to be so rich. I love that for him. Who else do we want to talk about in this movie? I think Elizabeth Moss is so funny when she shows up in this movie

for her, like, one and a half little scene. She feels like the most complete female character in a way. She's so mad. She's so mad that she got dumped with... Justifiably so. With the Burroughs'ez. Yes. You show up at an Airbnb.

Oops. You double-booked with William S. Burroughs. Guess you're not having a good vacation. I mean, she wasn't having a vacation. She was dumped by, not even, she was left and said, I'll be back soon, honey, by her husband. Who was as much of a Dean Moriarty fanboy as Sal was at the moment, you know what I mean? This is the other thing is like, Sal's an interesting, the interesting thing about Sal in this movie is that he kind of is able to wax in Wayne with how much he's sort of willing to follow the Pied Piper. that is Dean Moriarty across the country. And sometimes he'll, like, do his own thing. And

sometimes the scales will sort of fall from his eyes a little bit. But he can't, he keeps falling into this, you know, thing of, you know, look at, look at, you know, look at this guy. Wouldn't you kind of maybe just for like five minutes want to be this guy who seems to have everybody in sexual thrall to him and is just, you know, has so much life in his. him and all this sort of stuff. And again, I get it. This is why where the Garrett Headland thing comes, where it's just like, sometimes people just sort of have it and they have that quality where you look at them and you're

just like, I'm just going to keep looking at you. And that's sometimes you're kind of, that's more than half the game with movie stars. You know what I mean? Is you just have to be the kind of person that somebody just wants to watch, do whatever they're doing. We are a pro-Hedland podcast. We are. Is he going to be in the new Tron thing?

Oh. I don't know, but I'm going to see it. I mean, I'm definitely going to see it. Doesn't... I don't think so, which is too bad. What a shame. I enjoyed him in Tron Legacy. I'm just going to make a prediction that Greta Lee is going to be like nuclear-grade hot in Tron.

Just going to make that prediction. Who's directing it again? It's the Joachim Ronning, right? Who has done, like... Oh, the filmography on Yoakim Ronning is very funny. It's Maleficent, Mistress of Evil, young woman in the sea, and now Tron Ares. You know who also is going to be nuclear grade hot in this movie?

Gillian Anderson. Gillian Anderson, Arturo Castro, Hassan Minaj, Cameron Monaghan, Jody Turner Smith, Greta Lee, Evan Peters, and Jared Leto. Interesting cast, is what I'll say. You're right about Greta Lee. Greta Lee is going to be amazingly hot in that movie. That'll be fun.

I'm excited for it. I think this movie's going to be fun. I can't wait. I'm super can't wait. October can't come soon enough. All right. Who else are we talking about in this movie? There's so many people in this movie.

Amy Adams, Amy Adams this year. also in The Master and Trouble with the Curve, and she wins, rest in peace, a Hollywood Film Award for it, which is something we haven't made fun of in a long time. The Hollywood Film Awards, to those who do not remember, used to be handed out in, like, the summer. Before anybody had seen the movies that were awarded, it was truly, like, the publicists awards for movies, you know?

Yeah. They were a fake prize. basically. It gets NBR top 10 independent films we're speaking of other people who awarded this movie. Interesting list.

Arbitrage, Bernie, compliance, end of watch. Hello, I must be going. Little Birds, Moonrise Kingdom, Quartet, and Sleepwalk with me. The only one of these movies that I didn't see and have never heard of is Little Birds. Little Birds is a

Juno Temple movie, I believe. And I think she was Spirit Award nominated for that. Arbitrages. Richard Geer doing finance. Bernie, we've done on this podcast. Compliance we should do at some point on this podcast because that was the one where Ann Dowd self-financed her own Oscar campaign. Also, it's a pretty interesting movie, I think. Where'd you come down on compliance?

Have I seen compliance? The one where they prank call the girl at the... This is the era. of movie that, you know, if I haven't watched it since it came out, I maybe don't remember if I've seen things if they didn't leave a strong enough impression on me. I know all, I know more about compliance than I recall of the movie. Yes, yes, yes, yes. End of watch is Jake Dillon Hall and Michael Peña. Um, as cops. It's who's, who's, who's, who is end of watch? Hold on. It's, I think, a director I don't

like. But I remember liking the movie well enough. Yeah, it's a dude director. It's David Ayer? It is David Ayer. Yeah, I thought so. Anna Kendrick's not bad in that movie. Atypical Anna Kendrick movie, but not too bad. Who else? Hello, I must be going. Good movie. Melanie Linsky. So good in that movie. So, so, so good in that movie. Moonrise Kingdom, of course, Wes Anderson. Quartet is the Maggie Smith. The courtet. It's now who, who is Tom Courtney, Maggie Smith, Jim Broadbent? I don't think it's Broadbent.

Is this the one that Dustin Hoffman's in? Or is that a late quartet? Because both of those. He's not in a late quartet. Okay, then I think it's Dustin Hoffman. It's, let's see. No, Dustin Hoffman directed. It's Maggie Smith, Tom Courtney,

Billy Connelly, and Pauline Collins. are the titular quartet, and then Michael Gambon gets the and, so I don't know who he is, but the titular quartet is Maggie Smith, Tom Courtney, Billy Connolly, Pauline Collins. I should watch that movie. It's a remake, right, of another movie that's called Quartet? No, I think that's just a different courtet. Just a different movie that's... Yeah, yeah. Amazing. On the Road was also released by IFC films, which also kind of tells you about where the ceiling was for it in the race. but they had an interesting set of movies this year. It was part of their Sundance Selects label,

which often would be, like, there was a certain period of time where it was an off-ramp to a criterion collection submission. Not so true anymore, but movies like 45 years were... This is actually kind of a banger list with a couple exceptions.

Ben Wheatley's Kill List, a movie that I like until I hate. Oh, I like it all the way through. I think it's so nasty and scary. I love it. I think it's kind of, it feels fuck youy to me in a way that I'm like, well, no. Joshua Marston's forgiveness of blood, which is a criterion movie. It's a, like, nobody saw this movie, but I really loved it.

I think I saw it. I should catch up to it. New York Film Festival or something like that. I remember seeing it at Lincoln Center. I really, really like it. Kid with the bike is the Dardens. Yes, it is one of the Dardin movies. Non-Conclave, we have a Pope.

I remember that title, but I don't remember that movie. You know, not a good movie. Noni Moretti movie, which Nani Maretti also was... Can Jury President. Go back to our Rust and Bone episode. To the listener who asked how many Nani Mareti movies I had seen, I have seen multiple Nani Mareti movies, and I don't think I like any of them.

Goodbye First Love is Mia Hanson Love? One of the early Mia Hanson loves. I've never seen it. The early ones are good. They don't like, bam hit you. Goodbye First Love is one of my least favorites of hers. Father of my daughter will just like, that's like taking a baseball bat to the back of the knee, even though I don't think it's one of the best ones. Peace, love and misunderstanding.

Chris, I'm going to send you a link to look at the poster of peace, love, and misunderstanding right now. Oh, I know that poster, baby. Nobody, like, they fully, like, just painted Jane Fonda and Catherine Keener. Like, talk about your airbrushed Jesus, your Spanish Al-Jesus. Was that Telluride and Toronto that that movie did not go over very well? Peace-love and Misunderstand it? I think it was just Toronto, but it could have been...

Poor Bruce Barrisford. Let's see. Release dates for Peace Love and Misunderstanding. Premiered at Toronto. I don't think it did any of the other major festival, so it was just Toronto in 2011. Sorry, Peace Love and Misstance. After that, IFC releases Our Beloved Your Sister's Sister, Rest in Peace, Lynn Shelton. My favorite Lynn Shelton movie, your sister's sister.

I love it. Really good movie. Tremendous movie. Rosemary, if you are being like, why wasn't it? Rosemary DeWitt in more movies. Go see your sister's sister. She's tremendous in that. Her and Emily Poets. And then you'll be like full caps, why wasn't Rosemary DeWitt in more

movies. Maybe we should do that movie just to talk about Rosemary DeWitt. Sleepwalk with me is the Mike Barbiglia movie that's based on his one-man show that I think works better as a one-man show than a movie, but like the movie's not bad. But like, just watch the comedy special. It's really funny. I remember really loving, don't think twice, but I think if I watched it now, I would not like that man.

That's maybe true. That's maybe true. I like Barbigula in general, though. I think he's very funny. How to Survive a Plague? Great documentary. If you... If you... If you ever want to watch Larry Kramer yell at people, go watch How to Survive a Plague? I mean, entertaining, though somewhat controversial for its, you know, inflation of the role Larry Kramer had an act up. But either way, great documentary.

Yes. Josh Radner's liberal art Yikes Columbus's own Josh Radner Elizabeth Olson had a real interesting 2011, 2012 is all I'll say right?

Like she was in some interesting movies and then the Central Park 5 which was who directed that? That was someone Was that Amy Berg? Was it? A great documentary, obviously and probably very

instrumental in putting that story back into the, you know, public conscience. No, it was Ken Burns. It was Ken Burns. Oh, it's a Ken Burns. Sarah Burns and David McMahon are the credited directors in that, but it's Ken Burns. Yeah, yeah, really fantastic movie. And Donald Trump should not be president. And absolutely not. Okay. Anything else we want to talk about with this movie? I don't think so. Last notes on the film. Gustavo Santo Loaya's score is very his brand of score, but also very good. By that, it means there's lots of twangling going on, but also greatness. Yes.

I should say the second Alice Braga shows up in this movie, I thought it was Catherine Waterston. What? I've never had that problem with Alice Braga before. Have they both been, like, in alien movies? Is Alice Braga in one of the aliens? It seems like she should have been, right? Alice Braggis. Or is she in a Predator movie?

She's definitely in Predator. She's in a Predator movie. The first thing I remember seeing her in was Blindness, although she was also in I Am Legend around that time. She was really good in the Brit Marling TV show, murder at the end of the world from a couple years ago. I really liked. She's an interesting actress.

I kind of like her. Even if she was in The Suicide Squad. And The New Mutants. Oh, God. Alice. Alice, no, don't do it. And the Shack. She's in a lot of movies that are not in my business.

She's in a lot of movies that are not in my business. The Shack, the New Mutants, the Suicide Squad. But a good actress. Oh, yeah. I really like her. Good talent. I really like her a lot. Yeah.

Should we, do you have any other notes on the movie? Nope. That's all. then should we move on to the IMDB game? Tell our listeners what that is. Oh, right. It's my job to do that this week, isn't it? The IMDB game is how we end our episodes every week. We challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress

and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the IMDB game. Sure is. How's this going today?

Are you giving? Are you guessing? I'll guess first. All right. I went into the cast of Walter Silas's Dark Water, his ill-begotten English-language horror remake. It's a movie about how black mold will kill you. And that's all there is to it.

Yeah. I pulled up for you, Mr. Ian Holm. Ian Holm. Speaking of alien movies and people who were in good ones and then were in bad ones against their will. Was, is he credited in that movie? What would you even credit? Alien Romulus. Oh, he's credited.

Facial and vocal reference in brackets. That's a big, that's double birds, my friends. Stop this now, Hollywood. Stop this now. it's only going to get more ghoulish from here. All right. Ian Holm. All right.

I am going to say alien is probably one of them. Incorrect. Fuck off. Okay. I was happy to fall down the alien Romulus rabbit hole with you because I was like, well, that's going to get him a wrong answer. The sweet her after? Also incorrect.

Good. God. Oh, my God. Give me years. You fucker. 1985, 2001, 2001, and 2003. Jesus Christ Is one of them

Like Joe Gould's Secret or whatever It is not Joe Gould Secret Is that the one that I'm thinking of with him Or is he in something else that just sounds like that? Joe Gould's Secret is maybe a movie that exists only as a title to me Yeah All right, 85 He's got one Oscar nomination

But I thought that Oscar nomination was for Chariots of Fire And that was not 85 His one Oscar nomination is indeed for Chariots of Fire. Is the 851 out of Africa? Is he an out of Africa? He might be an out of Africa, but that is not correct. Is it an Oscar movie? It might have had a craft category nominated for two Oscars.

I would say it's a stretch to say that it's an Oscar movie. This is a movie that was... How far do I want to go into the story without... just giving it away. Is it a movie that I've seen? I would guess that you've seen this movie. I will briefly say, mishandled by its studio

and then salvaged by critics. Brazil? Brazil. I knew I said too much. I gave it right away. No, no, it took me a second. Rescued by critics, that is sort of the...

New York film critics, I think gave it its top prize. And this was when they, Terry Gilliam, I think, had only given, like, a screening to people and Universal was going to dump the movie and this forced them to basically release the movie. Right. Is one of the 2001 movies 13 conversations about one thing? No. You have definitely seen both 2001 movies. One of them is very big.

Oh, do I, Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring. Correct. I always forget that. I don't always forget that, but I sometimes forget that. Other 2001 movie, I've definitely seen it. Is he in Gosford Park? The answer is not Gosford Park. This is a movie, how many Oscar?

No Oscar nominations. Wow. But you thought it had some. Interesting. Yes. So we haven't done it on this podcast, but we could. We haven't. Oh, one.

It would be interesting to talk about these directors. A pair of directors, you say. Interesting. Well. I believe it's, yes. Not the which has. I believe this director pair eventually stopped being. Is it Alan and Albert Hughes?

Yeah. Is it from hell? From hell, baby. A movie I definitely saw and remember none of it. It's about Jack the Ripper, right? It's about Jack the Ripper, and I believe the twist is, he and home is Jack the Ripper. Interesting, interesting. I definitely saw it, I remember none of it.

2003. Okay. Oh, three. Lister. Is it also, is it Return of the King? It's Return of the King. It's like, you're overthinking it. Yeah, I'm overthinking it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting. interesting known for i wouldn't not the known for i'd have gone with for i'd probably do alien and chariots of fire and the sweet hereafter like jesus christ and then throw in fellowship of the ring it feels fairly straightforward it feels like everybody's going on to i mdb as they watch from hell and they're like who's this actor i've seen him and things right right right okay for you um we talked about those all those different movies about the beat generation um i might do myself a little film festival on my own. But I

chose the woman who plays Joan Falmer, Mrs. the late Mrs. Burroughs, who died perhaps of a William Tell incident, perhaps another way. Courtney Love.

Courtney Love. Courtney Love. All movies. How interesting. Well, People v. Larry Flint. Yes. Um Is this movie beat on there? It's nuts.

Okay. One strike. Man on the Moon. Yes. 200 cigarettes. No, but it should be. Wow. I know.

Every year on New Year's Eve, I should watch 200 cigarettes and I forget to. I saw a larger than normal number of people logging 200 cigarettes this year. Good. I'm glad to see it. Okay. So you're missing years are 1986. and 2002. 86 for Courtney Love?

It can't be a soundtrack. And what did you say? 1992? 2002. Yes. What if Courtney Love... I mean, honestly, we're going to want this retroactively what I'm about to say, but what if Courtney Love was one of the many cameos in Chicago?

Oh, my God. Yes. Okay, no. Cast Courtney Love in Chicago. Cast Courtney Love in The Hours. cast Courtney Love in the Lord of the Rings, the Two Towers. Courtney Love in Chicago is Pop. Sure.

Courtney Love in The Hours is Sally. Courtney Love in the Fellowship of the Ring. Say it, say it. We were on the same path for both of them. It's got to be the right one for this one. In Fellowship of the Ring, she's got to be Arwen. No, in the two towers. Oh, in the two towers, she's A-O-N.

No, she's Sauron. Oh, stupid. Okay, 2002, Courtney, though. Please don't tell me it's that documentary like Curtin Courtney. I would tell you if it's a documentary. Okay. What was she doing in O2? It's got to be another comedy.

It does not No My guess is you haven't seen this movie But you probably saw this trailer At one point or another Is it like a thriller? Mm-hmm Is it violent?

Yeah, I think so Not like ultra-violent But I imagine there's some violence Oh two It's not like a house of thousand corpses But is it like that vein? No

No It's like a phone booth level movie, right? Or a serial killer? It's not quite so, well, it's a little contained. It's not quite as contained as phone booth. But it's like it's a thriller.

It's a... Yeah, but it's not a serial killer. No. So it's a murder mystery. Not a mystery, no. But there is a murder. Or a threat of a murder. I think at some point somebody must get killed in this. I'm of it. What is this? What shlocky? It's a studio movie, too, right? Yeah, but I don't think it, like, made a ton of money. Let's see. Who, um, company credit? Who distributed this

fucker in the United States? It was a Sony. Is it the Watcher, the Keanu Reeves? It was a Columbia release. Um, it starred somebody who would soon after win an Oscar. Reese Witherspoon No Manor woman Woman Renee No

Um Um But you're warm So a supporting actress winner A lead actress winner Yeah Charlize Yes

Is it the astronaut's wife? It's not the astronaut's wife. That was, I think, a 99 movie. Oh, um... Ooh, what is this? I probably have seen this. It's pretty junky, but, like, it does the job. Oh, God, this is going to drive me crazy.

What did she do right before Monster? It's sort of a four lead movie. and it's like two and two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's not one. Courtney loves not one of the two. Courtney loves like a supporting player. Maybe I haven't seen this movie.

It's a home invasion thriller. Oh, it's the other one's Kevin Bacon. And yes, she is one of the four. It's not trapped. It's trapped. Oh, it's trapped? Okay, trapped. Yes. Stuart Townsend, Shirley Stheron, Kevin Bacon, and Courtney Love. I think it's Kevin Bacon and Courtney Love are the criminals, and Stuart Townsend and Charleston and Charleston and Charleston are the people they home invade. So, 86, is it like Heather's? No, it's sort of, if you know the sort of story of Courtney Love, it's a movie that kind of looms large in that she... I don't remember this.

for the lead and didn't get it and is in it in a supporting role. It's a true story. It's a I mean, to call it a musical music biopic is true, but sort of not really. I mean, it is. It's a biopic of a famous musician,

but But not... It's more of a relationship. Oh, it's Sid and Nancy? Sid and Nancy. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Love famously auditioned for really wanted the role of Nancy Spungent.

She doesn't get it, but she gets a supporting role in that movie. Movie I have never seen. I think I haven't seen that since, like, high school. He was nominated for one BAFTA award. Do you want to guess who? It's that when they were doing, like, Breakthrough Star. No. It was best actress. It was best actress for Chloe Webb.

Oh, yeah. There you go. Yeah. Chloe Webb, who is in that movie and is in twins, and then I don't think I've maybe ever seen her in anything again. Unless she was the mom in Shameless. I think she was the mom in Shameless, actually. She was. Okay, then I definitely saw her in both stuff. All right, anyway. All right. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz,

you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You can also follow us on Instagram. at This Had Oscar Buzz, and on Patreon at this, at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Oh, Blue Sky and Letterboxed at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I am also hosting the Patreon exclusive podcast to me, myself, and I, which you can find at patreon.com slash Demi-M-P-O-D. That's D-E-M-I-P-O-D. And I am on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Chris V-File, that's F-E-I-L.

we would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave and Salas and Gavin Miebius, for their periodic technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility.

So, uh, stop taking your hero. Guys, just give us a five-star. Just give us a five-star. Give us that. Slam that fifth star, please. Slam that fifth star the way Dean Moriarty slams poor Tom Sturridge at that one. Sure. At some point in the movie.

That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more place. Bye.