This Had Oscar Buzz - 328 – Hope Springs

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

It’s been a minute since we talked about Meryl Streep, so we decided what better time than Valentine’s Day and her 2012 romantic drama Hope Springs. Streep stars alongside Tommy Lee Jones as a sexually frustrated older couple who submits to a couples therapy retreat (led by Steve Carell) hoping to rekindle their spark. Summer counterprogramming … Continue reading "328 – Hope Springs"

All right, movie fantasy league, partisans, participants, and various competitors. We are finally here with a points update. And after a few weeks of no real movement, we got some movement. We got in literally the span of 28 hours. We got the Critics Choice Awards, the AARP Movies for Grownups Awards, the DGA and the PGA, at once. And all of a sudden, we do have a frontrunner. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a front runner. And she's- But your lighter's up, Ganges in the house. She's dancing at the club down in Brighton Beach. We have Enora. I'm going to look so smart when people listen to the podcasts

from like months ago when I was like, I think it's going to be a Nora. And then like, no one will know that in the intervening months, I like swung wildly to like, brutalist, conclave, complete unknown, maybe still Amelia Perez. Like, I was kind of all over the place. And then after yesterday, I'm like, nope, I was right. I was right the first time. Correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm sure if I will, plenty of listeners will chime in.

But I do think what's interesting about this is like PGA and DGA and Critics' Choice all voted ahead of the Carlos Sophia Gascon tweets. I believe that is true. So this whole idea of... Oh, this plays into your theory that... My theory is that Emily Paris is going to get the three Oscars it was always going to get and no more and that this controversy is not going to keep it from getting those three Oscars. Listen, I stand by the edict that tweets matter. That's where I'm planning my flag.

Tweets well, but also... But what I'm saying is that this... shows that Anora was always stronger than Golden Globes would have us believe. Yes, I think that's true, and I think it sort of was, you know, the quiet

contender. And I imagine, does PGA do preferential balloting? That I'm not sure of, but am I correct, though, that this all, the final voting for these three prizes happened prior to? I know that

Kyle Buchanan tweeted that that was the case for Critics' choice. I'm not sure when voting happened for DGA and PGA, but it would stand to reason if it was in the same, you know, they were announced at the same time. Although Critics' Choice was a delayed show. You know what I mean? Like, Critics' Choice was delayed, so maybe DGA and PGA voted later than that. But... Anora, interestingly, though, at Critics' Choice, only wins Best Picture. Yes. Literally, because I tweeted this at Kyle last night, because Kyle tweeted on Friday night in the middle of Critics' Choice, he's like, is Enora going to ever win anything on one of these televised award shows?

And then, like, moments later at one best picture. And then 24 hours later, it was picking up DGA and PGA. And so I tweeted out, and I'm like, this was the turning point right here. Like, people are going to look back and be like, this tweet right here was the moment. But it all turned around for Anora. You are what did it. You. Yeah.

You alone. Kyle Buchanan did this. So, but yes, that is true. And, you know, you know me in Critics' Choice. I think they are the tail on the dog. They are not the tail that wags the dog. They are, you know, the tail on the dog. So I think DJ and PGA certainly matter.

And I think Anora winning Critics' choice in conjunction with DJ and PGA, then helps to create a narrative that will very, very much be in its corner when Oscar voting happens. Because Oscar voting hasn't begun. Final Oscar voting has not begun. Now all of a sudden, out of this chaos comes a, you know, a choice for if you were on the fence about some things, now all of a sudden, you know, oh, I'll get on board the ANORA thing. That sounds fun. So the acting categories at the critic's choice really do seem to be solidifying. I still think best actor is in some way up in the air just because Adrian Brody keeps picking up these precursors from places that didn't give him trophies during the pianist run.

And that won't be the case with the Oscars. So Oscar voters will still be sort of weighing whether they want to give Adrian Brody a second Oscar. We have seen in recent years that Oscar voters are less concerned about over-rewarding people than maybe they used to be. They are handing out second and third Oscars like, you know, party favors these days. Good in the past decade, absolutely. So maybe it won't be a problem. But Adrian Brody, Demi, Dime Moore, Kieran Culkin, Zoe Saldania seem to be our four. They were the four that won at Critics' Choice.

Screenplay categories are kind of interesting. Coralie Farja wins original screenplay for the substance Peter Strawn wins for Conclave I don't think I had either one of them

as the favorite to win at the Oscar But I definitely think Conclave is now I think so I think if Coralie Farja

can win especially over a Nora at this point in original screenplay I think that shows a lot of strength I certainly feel like original screenplay

is up and is open for business you know what I mean I think I agree I agree um over at the M for Gs really quickly I wanted to pop over there because obviously those are a little bit more not entirely a bad weekend for a complete unknown and those who would like you to believe that it is the dark horse best picture contender I won best movies for grownups I thought you were shading me when you threw that in the text chain that you know these people who seem to think that a complete unknown can win I didn't

realize that like I didn't realize I was shading you I didn't realize I was shading you I didn't realize that all the trades had hopped on my bandwagon because I had said a few weeks ago that I think a complete unknown could win. And I thought I was just like the lone voice in the wilderness there. And apparently like, while I wasn't looking, all of the, all of the trades kind of hopped on that bandwagon. I have to imagine people are hopping off that bandwagon after this weekend. Yes, yes. What else happened at the impurities? Well, Jacques Odiard wins for Emilia Perez showing that the retired

age community will not be shamed by controversy, yada, yada, yadda. Adrian Brody and Demi Moore win again, you know, further sort of solidifying. And Brody wins over like most of his competition from the Oscars, right?

He beats Coleman Domingo, he beats Refines. DeMei beats out none of her competition. She beat out Pamela Anderson, Marianne Jean-Baptiste, Nicole Kidman, June Squibb, a Fox Force 5, if I've ever seen one that's recommended. Let's see, Isabella Rossellini for Conclave, the only Oscar nominee among the supporting actresses does not win supporting actress. Joan Chen wins for D.D. And ditto for Guy Pearce, for The Brutalist, the only Oscar nominee among the supporting actors. but it gets beat by Peter Sarsgaard for September 5.

Otherwise, they took away my beloved best grown-up love story. All the fun categories got removed so that they could have TV awards, which I feel like is... Boo! Boo! Boo, boo! But we got Best Intergenerational Movie to my beloved Thelma. So we got to see June Squibb and Fred Heshinger. This was from video taken at the event.

I imagine they will at some point air this on PBS. I don't know if they have set a date yet. It was postponed. So obviously due to the wildfires, so I don't know when PBS will end up airing this. Oh, it says here February 23rd on great performances. So look for it then. The great performance of June Squib and Fred Hetchinger accepting an award together.

As I said on Blue Sky this weekend, And the only thing that's getting me through all of this is those two, and they're wonderful faces. As we mentioned with Anora, they win the DGA, they win the PGA. That's 30 points apiece for your Vulture Movie Fantasy League. All of these points will be entered in by the end of the weekend and then newsletter soon to follow. But yeah, lots going on. And now the only stuff that are left, WGA awards were. I will be in attendance there in New York

and then Baftas and then the indie spirits and then oh right SAG I keep forgetting about SAG SAG will be happening the 23rd and then the Oscars SAG's kind of the last stand for if anything's going to get shaken up Yes yes Which it could You know

Timmy could win I kind of have no idea who's winning ensemble At SAG Like, I kind of feel like that's the last place Amelia Perez could still win something. Which would be awkward as hell, but... Lick my finger, put it to the wind. What do you think of?

I wonder... My I see... You're doing Pacino now. My I see... My I see Conclave winning, actually. It's possible. My I see Conclave, but my... but my belly rumblings feel anora.

Not your belly rumbling. Anora would be a very, very atypical SAG ensemble winner. It would be. That's why I'm, you know, hesitant. But. Chris, what if it's wicked? Blame the TikTokers is what I'll say about that. John M. Chu won.

What did John Chu win? He won the Critics Choice Best Director. Guys. I was like, are there TikTokers in Critics Choice now, too? Honestly, would you doubt that there are TikTokers in Critics' Choice? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. This is why I can't take them seriously.

I'm sorry. I love all of you who are in Critics' Choice. I would like to... Critics' Choice, please admit us. But also, you're a clown car. You're a giant clown car. All right. With that...

With that said... On to the episode. Bye. Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hatch and French. I'm from Canada water. You two have come here to try to restore intimacy to your marriage.

This is insane. We're not 22 years old anymore. I would like to assign you your first exercise. Tonight I would like you to spend a period of time with your arms around one another. I think we better stop. I'm going to ask you to take a leap of faith and try something. I'm looking for sex tips, for straight women from a gay man. It's most likely way out of your comfort zone.

I'm just not... That's not me. I just can't do that. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast speeding down a country road just jaying off two hot bisexuals in the front seat. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz will be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my sex tip for straight people from a gay man, Chris File.

Hello, Chris. Okay, so wow, that intro. but if you think that we're done sex tips for straight women from a gay man and Steve Carell recommended that book to Meryl Streep. I had to lay down. And I'm sure that was in the trailer, but I forgot about that.

It was. This was my first watch of this movie. Really? I think so. I didn't remember. That's someone surprises me. Okay. I think there was a lot going on this summer,

and that's why I missed this movie. I understand. I understand. So that book is just 300 pages of, like, just eat his ass, girl, right? Sorry, listeners. We're starting off with a very sexualized episode. But this is a movie about sexual discussion. This is 100 minutes of watching Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones try to get it on.

Like, that is essentially the entirety of this movie. It's 100 minutes of Tommy Lee Jones and Meryl Streep navigating oral sex. Can I also tell you that 100 minutes, was in an ironclad contract somewhere. This movie was like, you will not go over 100 minutes because so much of this movie happens under the credits at the end. Like, there's like meaningful denouement to this movie. The finale of the movie is over the credits.

It's like the entire last, like, act of the movie happens while the credits are rolling on the side of the screen. It is wild to me how much they leave for that part. Like, they are like, we've got a train to catch y'all. We are getting out of here on time. It's crazy. You will fit in that extra screening every day. Truly, truly.

Someone at Sony was just like, uh-uh, we're not, we're not fucking around. We have to get three matinees a day out of this movie. And then out the door so that the dark night rises can get the rest of that, can get the rest of that screening. Yeah, I had seen this movie when it had originally come out. I remember feeling like, because I think most people, people were like, that looks stupid. And Merrill had just won her Oscar. So everybody was like, well, good thing Merrill wasn't looking to 2020 or 2012 to win her Oscar because she wouldn't

want it for this. And I remember watching it and I'm like, you know, it's, it's low-hanging fruit, but it's like, it's, you know, for what it is, I think it's enjoyable. I did like the fact that it like took this relationship between this couple seriously. Yeah. Watching it now, I think a lot of, I still like it as a sort of like, I think it's a good-hearted movie with good performances. I think as a structured movie, I think it gets repetitive. I think the movie does not go a single place unexpected. Like, it goes exactly where you think it's going to go. I maybe kind of push back a little bit on that in the third act of the movie, just a little bit. Okay. But I think when I peruse the letterbox logs of this movie, I think people are a little

unfair to this movie. Oh, well, at the time, people hated it. Like, people were really, really mean to it in a way that I was like, guys, this is not bad movie. I mean, the thing is, this is a movie about and probably for people who are less, people who are like the characters in the movie, people who are less comfortable or, you know, less adept at having a sexual conversation of any kind, you know, and. Right. And so for younger people, like, nobody wants to. wants to imagine their parents having sex. And all this movie does is sort of be like, hey, what if your parents were Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones? And then they were just, like, trying to have sex for an... You know what? If your parents are still knocking the boots, good for them.

That's great. That's probably a sign that their relationship is rock steady and good for them. I hope they do say knock in the boots. I hope that is the terminology that they use. These boots were made for knocking, and that's just what they'll do. Okay. So yes, I think there is some crunchiness there. Yes, I think a lot of these conversations are a little baseline and obvious, but I think for the audience it's intended for, you know, they're probably at or below that baseline for these conversations.

So it's not revolutionary for, you know, probably a lot of people who have seen it. But at the same time, I still think if you remember. remove maybe some of the dialogue. The actual character beats, the story progression. It's well structured. It's well done with the exception of everything around Steve Carell will get into it. And I do think, you know, when the movie kind of moves into this formulaic space, I think it kind of does something a little unexpected in, yes, rom-coms always. always bring people together, pull them apart to ultimately bring them back together again. But I think just some of the character nuances of how they get there is not at least what I was expecting. I think that's true in and of, like, as you say, sort of the dynamic between the two main characters, between Streep and Tommy Lee Jones, who I think have very good, like, they're very good together.

And you can tell that they like, you know, I think they're friends off screen or they seemingly like get along off screen. She mentioned him sort of fondly and heard Cecil Bita Mill speech. So that sort of shines through. It really is, though, it's a two-character movie that by virtue of casting up with the therapist role, sort of masquerades as a three-character movie. And I just don't think, I don't think, I mean, we may disagree on this. I don't think Corel is bad. I think it's just sort of baffling that he's taken this character who does not have anything to do.

It's surprising that he's there, but the more shocking thing that I do think is to, you know, puts a stain on the movie a bit is he was clearly not filming with Tommy Lee Jones and Meryl Streep. They clearly wanted someone with some type of name appeal in that role to the point where it is, very obvious to me that they shot separately from those other stars. It's also interesting to me that they sort of populate this town in Maine,

Maine, right? With, because it's generalized, you know. Yeah, East Coast, East Coast. New England. But, like, it's on a coast. But, like, Becky Ann Baker's the waitress. And, like, you see Anne Harada and her husband. at the diner, and Elizabeth Shoe is the suspiciously winsome bartenderess at this little

crab shack along the water. Mimi Rogers, Hot Neighbor with Corgi's. For one scene, it's real, so it's like something tells me that this at one point in its life maybe was more of a, not an ensemble movie, you're still going to have Streep and Tommy Lee Jones as your main characters, but that the sort of the local color of the movie would have been a little bit more prominent, which to me, I think would have been welcome. I think I would have liked a movie where they sort of, you know, you learn some lessons from talking with Anne Harada or Becky Ann Baker or some of the old coops.

You learn that Mimi Rogers' corgi neighbor is actually a lesbian. So this threesome could never really happen unless Merrill was much more active. That was definitely in the trailer. the um because the they go from the line of him being like you know what are your fantasies and he says you know threesome like under his breath and then they cut to um and he says her name and merrill goes did you have fantasies the threesome with i'm carroll with carol with the corgis he's got another corgi i know but three's the limit carol with the corgi and then they cut to the scene of her with the corgis at the end of the trailer. And Merrill just goes, in that, like, great, it's the best line reading in a movie where she goes, Carol, you got another corgi.

And Carol just goes, I did, but three is the limit. And that's just like the end of the trailer. It's like, that's the little button. That scene where he mutters against his will and under his breath, threesome. Yeah. That was, before he says that line, there was. a cleave in my viewing experience, where I, like, took a breath and I was like, this could get really dark, really fast, and become a different movie.

Where he's like, I want her to punch me in the face. Or, like, you know, something. I want to choke her to unconsciousness. We started the episode with a joke about jerking off. So, you know. Who would have done such a thing? I can't. So it's like, we could get really profane here.

But I was like, he could be into some really freaky shit. and, like, it just unfurls right here. And, like, it's a half hour of him saying all the stuff he wants to do. And then, boom, that's a movie. But then he says three-sum. It's his Burgess Meredith outtake from grumpy old. It's just. I'm going to show him a can alone.

But then he just says threesome. And it really is just like, my guy, you could say anything. Like, you could have a dream, imagine anything. This is the point in the story where we're at that. Get out the swear jar, Chris, because we're both going to be... No, no, no, no, no. See, my swear jar for this would be... This movie's not our heteronormitivity?

No, it would be generational. I'm just like, everything's generational in this movie. But it's like, reach for the stars. Reach for the stars. I mean, listen, it's sort of... It's a little bit of a cliche. Maybe it's not a cliche at this, but I don't know. But the idea that, like, obviously, you know, straight people, it's in the name, right?

They're, you know, the reputation is more straight-laced, more buttoned up, less adventurous, you know. And yet, the, you know, straight people who are freakier than they seem trope has been trotted out again and again and again, right? the, you know, the seemingly, you know, placid suburban couple who are swingers on the weekend or whatever. So that could have been trotted out. I don't know. I just feel like you have this, like, any movie that goes to the trouble to, like, go to a fictional New England coastal town with shutters on all the windows and a crab shack and a, you know, friendly waitress or whatever, if you're going to introduce all of that and not at least pay those things off with like a little bit of, you know, community, some sort of, like, I don't need everything to have a strawberry social in the town square, but, like, something, you know, to bring everybody together. No, no, no. It made me want to go back to Provincetown. I needed Merrill to, like, fall in with, like, a book club at that diner and just have them. Or just like, that was the thing is, like, the An Harada character was just like, we come back every year. Clearly, uh, and Beckham Baker's like, you're here for the, for, you know, doctor whatever's thing. We'll have you there right on time. So, like, they clearly, like, know, know,

that these people come through this town every year. So, like, I don't know. It's like a sex destination for unhappy marrieds. Have Merrill talk to a bunch of the women who come here for that and just sort of like, you know, I don't know. I just feel like the movie was a little too fenced in in that way. Yeah. I taste. I get that.

And maybe that's just the type of formula that I'm willing to buy into rather than like this has to happen because. of this. This is like nice local color within the story. Yeah, yeah. I hear you. I don't know, though. Take me to a seaside romantic vacation. If I'm Tommy Lee Jones, I'm ready

to go for like that place seemed romantic. It was nice. Oh, you're ready to go. You mean like your engine has been primed and you are. Let me do this in the speech of the children. I'm H-O-T-O-G- How dare you?

How dare you bring that into my house? It seemed really nice. I would personally be spending more time with my loved one in our Airbnb situation. I get it. And also, like, I talk a big, like, this is what I want on in my movies. I certainly don't want to, like, go on vacation and talk to people, I don't know. Like, that is not my... Sure.

That is not my bag. But if I'm watching a movie, you know, we come to this place for magic. We come to this place to experience things. that are not our own. And we got magic. That magic was Coastal New England. Nothing's more magical than Coastal New England. Becky Ann Baker, what more is magical than Becky Ann Baker showed up to my table and was like,

what can I get you? Can I read you the specials? I'd just be like, let's just chat, honey. Like, let's just have a conversation. Yeah. Becky Ann Baker, too famous to be playing waitresses at this point for this movie. So this is around the point. Well, I was going to say this is around the point where she was playing every, the

to every female lead on television. Because remember, there was a point where she was Lena Dunham's mom on girls and Cat McPhee's mom on Smash, like at the same time, like simultaneously on television. And I think she was probably on a third thing. I'm looking up at Becky Ann Baker's filmography.

Hold on a second. You can't stop me. Miss Becky. What if this was our six-timers, Becky Ann Baker? Also, it was more wild for me to see Gene Smart show up in two scenes in dark hair. As a shift supervisor as a Shepo.

As a sweater folder. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Assistant key holder. What was the, what was the style of, of the store that they were at? Like, that seemed like it was sort of. It was basically a Chico's. It was like a Talbittos.

It was a. Talbets. I don't know what Chikos is. So Talbittes is like Talbitts. Okay. I've never actually been to a Talbitts, but I've at least seen that like there's a Talbitts at the mall by me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. All right, Becky and Baker roundabout this time was on, well, she was on the good wife, but I don't think she was playing anybody's mom on the good wife. She was on Madam Secretary as Chancellor Frieda Schultz, which makes me feel like she's an Angola Merkel clone, which I kind of would have loved to have seen that. A shout out to Adam Grossworth, who will absolutely text me about Becky and Baker on Madam Secretary. She's on Smash, she's on Nurse Jackie, she was on, ooh, eight episodes on Kings, my beloved Kings, I genuinely don't remember who she played on Kings, but God, I love that show. Person of Interest, Smash. How many episodes of Girls would you wager that she was on? I mean, girls seasons are, well, they kind of varied.

Some of them had more episodes. Some of them had very few. I'm going to say 20. 20 exactly holy shit bam baby i just won gay guy price is right that's fantastic um she's on so many shows though honest to god um Gotham SVU what the hell did they have her doing on Gotham she's playing marge it's all i can tell you marge way her character's name is marge for one episode they changed it from martha to marge to marge yeah yeah yeah um That's what it is.

A gifted man, remember? What if there was a gifted man, and he was played by Patrick Wilson? Centres on an ultra-competitive surgeon whose life has changed forever when his ex-wife dies and begins teaching him what life is all about from the hereafter. Guess who played the wife? One of your faves. Is it Amanda Pete or someone? Nope. It's one of your faves.

Oh. Is it Jennifer Ely? It is Jennifer Ely. Holy shit. How did you get that? Listen, listen, I'm just character actress on television. Unreal. Wow, you're on a heater.

Go buy a lotto ticket immediately. All right. Yeah, loved Becky M. Baker in this movie. Loved Merrin Ireland showing up as the kid was so funny. Marin. Sorry, Marin, Ireland. You forget the birth, rebirth, Eileen year that we all learned it was Burrne. We all learned it, and I totally forgot it again.

Also really unfair to Marin, Ireland, to only. have one scene in this movie where she plays Meryl Streep's daughter. She should play Meryl Streep's daughter in more movies and just generally be in more movies because I'm always happy to see her. But like this whole movie about how I think you're really right that there was some contractually obligated runtime that they really cut down because the fact that it's a hundred on the button is like that's the telltale

right there. And why would you cast Maril in Ireland to be the daughter of Meryl Streep and only have like a dinner table scene and not a scene where they're talking and she says to her, and then she's there on the beach under the credits. You must be so unhappy. She's like, well, your dad won't fuck me. And she's like, ew, mom. She's also there on the beach with like a baby on her hip, you know, with like a toddler,

you know, whatever. But yes. But she's also so, maybe it's just the last few, like, movies that I've seen her in. But she communicates such severity that I'm just like, oh my God, the vibes have changed now that you are at this dinner table. We can't just talk about the cable package anymore. We have to talk about, you know, dark things and whatnot. Who else is in this movie?

It's quite a cast, listener. It's quite a cast. Mimi Rogers, what's his name from the comeback, the comeback's husband? Oh, yeah. What's his name? Marky Mark. Marky Mark from the comeback. Elizabeth's shoe showing up for like a scene is wild as well

where it's just sort of just like To be a bartender She's like I understand that like in the movies Everybody's prettier than they are in whatever But she's just this like 10 out of 10 gorgeous beauty Who's just like just tendon bar

With the like hapless drunks at this Here in New England Here in here in you know The sea shack or whatever the fuck Um, tremendous, absolutely tremendous. Definitely her cut scene that was in the, like, 115 minute version of the movie. Tommy Lee Jones goes to the bar after one of the fight scenes, and she imparts some type of wisdom. We're like, we have ventured so far.

We've ventured so far into the specifics of this movie without doing a plot description. We really are just flaunting and flouting the routing. the rules and regs of this podcast. So we're going to dial it back. Before we do the plot description, though, Chris, would you like to tell our listeners why they should join our Patreon if they are not already doing so?

Listen, we have a Patreon. You've probably heard about it before. If you've listened to us, it is this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. And you can go over to our Patreon right now, and for $5 a month, you're going to get some goodness over there. You're going to get at least two bonuses.

episodes every month. The first comes on the first Friday at the month. That is our exceptions episodes. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar Buzz rubric but managed to score some nominations. I have no idea what month this episode is dropping in because we are trying to truck ahead and get a bunch early. But in February, this is February, right? I'm not spoiling anything. Yeah, in February, you can listen to us talk about the phantom of the opera with None other than our friend Natalie Walker. It's going to be great. What other exceptions have we done?

We've talked about movies like most recently David Lynch's Mulholland Drive. Todd Haynes is far from heaven. Ridley Scott's House of Gucci. Things like Madonna's W.E., Vanilla Sky. The Mirror has two faces. Molly's game. Pleasantville, the lovely bones. You get the gist of that.

You get the other. And you've also got, what, almost two years' worth of exceptions episodes sitting over there for $5 a month? You can listen to a bunch of back episodes for fun? Why not? But what's the second episode every month? On the third Friday of every month, you're going to get an excursion episode. These are deep dives into Oscar Ephemora we love to obsess about on this show, such as Entertainment Weekly Fall Movie preview issues. We recap awards shows like independent.

and Spirit Awards, Golden Globes, from years before our podcast existed. We've done Patreon-only mailbag episodes. We've done a game night. In February, we'll be doing our annual awards called the superlatives. So over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz, you can check out turbulent brilliance today. Today, yes. Today. Today. I literally just saw Felicia from that season of Big Brother doing an online traitors game with other former Survivor.

Get her all the craters, I swear to God. I don't even watch Big Brother, but you got me on a rabbit hole on YouTube of watching that woman just from today. She was fun. She was a traitor. She was picked as a traitor. She made it to like final six or something like that. It was fun. We are recording the first week of the new season of the traders. I think there is so. some good stuff set up there. One of my least favorite people in all of television is on, and I hope not so long because I can't stand for the new season. Boston. All right.

For the plot description, are you, wait, I got to set it up. All right. So you hang tight. You talked for a while there. I'm going to give you a little break. I'm going to let you limber up, get ready, do some exercises. I will. Do some kegles.

Exactly. We're going to be talking about 2012's Hope Springs here, directed by David Frankel, written by Vanessa Taylor, starring Merrill Streep, Tommy Lee Jones, Steve Carell, Becky Ann Baker, Gene Smart, Mimi Rogers, Marin, Ireland, Elizabeth Shoe. Did I even say Elizabeth Shoe? I should have said Elizabeth Shoe. Distributed by Sony Pictures, released on August 10th, 2012. It finished number four in its opening weekend behind the first weekend of the Born Legacy, the first weekend of the born legacy, the first weekend of. of the campaign, which I know I remember, but I'm having a very hard time picturing in my head who actually was in it. Galaphanakis and Will Ferrell. Thank you. Movie that exists only as a poster in my mind. I don't think I ever saw the trailer.

I definitely saw the trailer a couple of times, but I certainly never saw the movie. Finished behind the fourth week of the Dark Night Rises. It did finish ahead of the second week of the Total Recall Remake. So there is that. Um, Chris. Born legacy, not good. Not good, but has a great Elizabeth Marvel scene. I was going to say, it's not good, but the Elizabeth Marvel fight scene is a banger and a half.

Objectively awesome? It's objectively awesome. It's so good. So, yes. That's why I recommend it to people even if I think the rest of it is like, it's fine. I think it's fine. I think it's whatever. I think it's baseline.

If you want a movie to just like put on, okay. But you'll get that bang or Elizabeth Marvel scene, so at least there's that. All right, Chris, I have the stopwatch at the ready. If you are prepared to do a 60-second plot description of Hope Springs. And begin. All right, so we meet Kay and Arnold. They are a long-married couple, and Kay is realizing that she isn't so happy with their marital arrangement. They don't really have much intimacy, whether emotional or physical, they sleep in separate rooms, et cetera.

She finds this book about marriage and improving your marriage in Barnes & Noble and sees that the author who is played by Steve Carell runs this basically retreat in coastal New England and she signs herself and Arnold up for this and Arnold is like no I'm not going to go to that but of course he eventually does go and they go and they have kind of fitful conversations with this therapist that it's like kind of a two steps forward one step back in terms of getting each other to talk about their sexual relationship and, like, opening themselves up to physical intimacy that they hadn't experienced before, like Merrill giving him a blowjob in a theater, and that doesn't really go so well, because imagine, no. And then they eventually try to have sex,

and as soon as he's looking her in the eye and about to, like, you know, enter, falls apart. And then the doctor says, you know, you've done better than all couples. Not all couples I see should get married and blah, blah, blah. So it's like, not the most successful trip, but They go home with, like, hopefully things to work on and they aren't doing so well when they get back home. But then Arnold does kind of buck up and, like, take care of his wife, and they make out over the kitchen sink, and they renew their vows on the beach, and he cries. It's nice. 30 seconds over. You bring up the movie theater, attempted beach in the movie theater.

Seeing some type of French farce. Did, I was trying to remember. Did Corell assign them that in particular, or did he just say, like, indulge in a particular? Something you haven't done before. Okay. That at least makes more. Because if Correll, first of all, I think it's unethical of a doctor to tell his patients to do something that is illegal, which it is. Public sex is not a legal act.

It's public indecency. It's public lewdness, whatever it would get arrested. But I also can't imagine something less sexy than. Some ancient art house in a tiny town with definitely dirty floors. I was going to say dirty floors, dirty seats. Uncomfortable seats. Uncomfortable seats. Like, these are not like.

Getting and or receiving. Or giving and or receiving. There's not enough room. There's not enough room. But here's the other thing. Well, like, like Jean-Due Chardin is on the screen. Like, yeah. But like, the other thing is, and sure, like, he didn't assign this specifically, but

he's if he's assigning things that like can ultimately lead to people indulging in things like perhaps public sex or whatever or like you know um i imagine this town that is again sort of used to accommodating him and his patience everybody's just fucking in public in this town where all the locals are just like here we go a fucking gun man i just want to go see a movie and just like once again like you know mom paw kettle back here just like hand jobbing each other or whatever in the back row. This is my very... In Provincetown, they have the dick doc in this town, in Hope Springs.

In Hope Springs. They don't have the Biju Theater. They just have the Bejoo Theater. The Bejee Theater. You know, Steve Corell is just like advocating for public sex. But just like, I just imagine... Anne Harada and her husband are like, we come here every year. We fuck over in that bush.

And the local constable is just like... Like, all right, you two, like, here's into the paddy wagon. And the paddy wagon is just like all old couples trying to recapture the magic. Some couple is still going at it in the back of that paddy wagon. That's true. They're like, we're already arrested. The paddy wagon just becomes a giant old people or cheap. And the cops like, I leave you alone for five minutes.

Jesus Christ. The locals, the next couple that gets arrested is like, is there room for two more? God. Every hot tub in that town just has to get scrubbed down so, so severely. Maude, we haven't seen you since three summers ago. Carol and her corgi is showing up and everybody sees her coming from a mile away. Just like, oh, okay. All right, all right.

Good plot description. I don't think that. Well, I mean, he does advocate for things like oral sex for them. Sure. You know, again, for the intended audience of this movie, this, the idea, the open, frank conversation of an oral sex act in a movie could be something beneficial to this movie's intended audience. I think this movie has people like Kay and Arnold in mind more than. and it has people like you and I in mind, you know? You're making a skeptical face.

No, I'm not making a skeptical face. You're totally correct. It's just every time you say that, I and I imagine other people in this audience who have parents immediately then envision their parents going to see this movie and being like, oh, a blowjob, eh? And like, I don't think any of us need to be thinking about that, Chris. So, um, but, you.

I want Mabel to give me a blowjob at Hoop Springs during the blowjob scene. Not Mabel. The first thing I think of when I think of this movie, of course, though, and I think we probably should have led with this up top. But sex tips for straight women from a gay man. No, it's Kristen Wigg and Will Farrell go in. I'm Hope Springs. Isn't the bit for that.

That's what she just says when she gets back in the orgy paddy wagon. But isn't she the sheriff, the small town sheriff? You get out of here. What does that say? Marial. Marial Street. Marial Street. Hope Springs.

And she's the sassy sheriff. That's sassy sheriff. Oh, Hope Springs. Oh, Southern. That accent. And that old and that town. She comes in on the horse. She comes in on the forest.

from the scene before she looks at the town people you get out of here you all you get out of here you get out of here um but yeah every time i see this title i just think i'm hope springs um tremendous golden globes moment i loved that i loved their return engagement a couple years ago when they presented I can't even remember what they were presenting, but the music kept playing and they kept, like, doing their weird little dance. Do you remember that? I think it was last year. It was last or two years ago. It's not as good of a bit as Hope Springs. It's not. But it's still fun. Because I remember that in the moment. I was like, this isn't that good and that memorable. But it was so good. I've watched it back a few times. I've watched it back a few times. It's pretty fun.

We have talked about every movie we can talk about in this presentation. Wait, wait. Okay. We have. We absolutely, no, we can still do quartet. We have not done. Oh, we have done the quartet. We have to. Now we have to do the cornucing in the Yemen. We've done Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. Now we've done Hope Springs.

We can't do silver linings for this or for our Patreon. So that's just going to be that's going to be that about that. But we can definitely do quartet. So like a million percent, we have to do the quartet. Anyway, this is Merrill coming directly off. of her Oscar, which to me, as somebody who is a huge Merrill fan and also sort of got kind of invested in the like, when's she going to win number three thing? Her winning for Iron Lady was a thing that I don't think I really reckoned with at the time

at all, because I just kept being like, well, she's not going to win for the Iron Lady. She's not going to win for this movie that everybody hates and have. Half the people don't think she's bad in and it is bad. Right. And just like, like, Viola Davis is certainly going to win. Like, that's, that's obviously what's going to happen. And then Merrill won. And my immediate reaction was, oh, not, not this way.

I don't want it to happen this way. But then, like, within a minute, she's up on stage and she's giving that incredible speech. And then I'm like, well, now I've fabulous. Now, now I love this. I love that this happened, good for her. She should have three Oscars anyway, whatever. Here's what I'll say. Yeah.

The only person, probably the only person, the only performer, who has won three acting Oscars or more, you don't get, at least one of those Oscars is bad. At least one is bad. Yeah. Daniel Bay Lewis doesn't have really a bad Oscar. No. Right. And like her previous two Oscars were like. Not only good, but, like, great.

You know what I mean? She's great in Sophie's choice. She's great in Kramer v. Kramer. Yeah, and if you have problems with Kramer versus Kramer, they're not Meryl in that movie. Right. I don't have problems with Kramer versus Kramer. Who are some other examples we can give? My Catherine Hepburn example of this is Morning Glory.

That movie's not good. Oh, I thought you were going to say Golden Pond. No, she's wonderful. I mean, like, on Golden Pond, I could see people like rolling their eyes at it. I think people did at the time. It's not the greatest thing in the world, but, like, she's terrific in that movie. Yeah. And I can't remember someone she was nominated against that it was like it's ridiculous to give her a fourth and not give that person their won.

Didn't she beat Diane Keaton for Reds? Which Diane had already won. She'd already want. Diane Keaton is so good. She's so good at Reds. She's so good at Reds. Yeah. But, like, what argument are you making against someone who does have an Oscar?

Right, right. Your other three-timers, obviously, Francis McDormand, which I don't dislike either Nomad Land or Three Billboards. It's just odd that it's both of them. If it was one of them and not the other, I would be totally fine with it, you know? Right. And especially because Three Billboards, she beats out, among others. If that three billboards line up, that makes me say, three billboards. Ladyboard

She's sart of a ladybord She's sart of a ladybard She's sart of a ladybard person Who are the other three-timers? Walter Brennan? I don't know. I don't think I've seen all three Walter Brennan.

I certainly haven't. Jack Nicholson? Nicholson. Does Jack Nichol- Well, I mean... It's pretty good. Maybe Nicholson doesn't have a bad third. As good as it gets his...

least pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, maybe people just don't talk enough about his terms of endearment. They kind of don't. They kind of don't. He's really wonderful. And it's also just that the scenes with McLean are just like through the roof, man.

Yeah. Perfect. Fucking perfect, all of them. And I also think, especially when you look at the people that they were going to cast for that role, it just like, it just flat out would not have been as good, wouldn't have been. as good of a movie with any of those other actors. Jack Nicholson is so great opposite Shirley McLean. And the thing with Merrill, so you look at that win for Iron Lady. God, it's like I don't even want to say it.

It's like I don't even want to say its name. Hold on Hope Springs. Sorry, I don't know why. Oh, there it is. Number of mind. Okay, Merrill Streep, filmography. So immediately after Iron Lady is this movie, Hope Springs, then 2013, it's August Osage County, which people have divisive opinions about, I almost, it's even weird to say divisive opinions because it's so weighted towards the negative. I feel like I am one of the few people who even a little bit stick up for her performance in that movie, even though it's probably mostly because it's probably mostly.

because I've just never seen a stage version. So this is kind of all I have to really go on. I think if you're someone who loved the stage version of that show, it's easy to lump your dislike for the movie in her performance because it's so emblematic of the things the movie gets wrong. But the movie isn't her fault. Right. So, but if Merrill is still approaching Oscar,

number three at that point. Like, hat doesn't have it. Does that become just a narrative that she beats out Blanchet for Blue Jasmine? No, because the Blanchet performance is that performance. Like, I think some of us deluded ourselves into thinking that Amy Adams could beat her that year, but, like, Blanchet wasn't losing. Okay, so then we move on to 2014. She's in supporting roles in The Homesman and The Giver, which, I mean, the Giver is, like, not going to be an Oscar movie anyway. He should have been the title of this movie. And then she's nominated again for Into the Woods. So now this is her second post-Third Oscar nomination.

Because remember the whole idea was just like, Merrill's going to win her third Oscar, and then they're going to forget about her. They're just not going to nominate her again. And they literally were like, we'll give you a year off. And then you'll be back. So she's nominated for Into the Woods. this is the one where I'm like, I don't think she's... Yeah, we don't need that.

There's not really much going on in that. Maybe that's not Chris Pine and Billy Magnuson. I think also there's just an incredible opportunity cost in that, in that, like, there are so many other people that they could have cast in that role who would have been good and interesting. Poor Glenn Close would have been, I think, kind of tremendous. Absolutely. But there's a lot of people who could have throw Audra in there for Pete's sake.

You know what I mean? I know Audra wasn't really doing movies, speaking of which we'll talk about her movie in a second. So into what she's nominated for, I, you know, that's unfortunate. I don't think that she wins for that if she's still only on two Oscars. 2015, she's in Ricky in the Flash. Jonathan Demi's Ricky in the Flash, which I think a lot of people don't give a super fair shake to. I think it has its ups and downs, but I think it is mostly a pretty good movie. this is the movie that she's

Banger this had Oscar Buzz episode too Bangor this had Oscar Buzz episode We really had a good fun time with Ricky Rindazzo This was back when I still liked Ben Platt When I was still like, oh, the little gay kid behind the bar And then she's also in Suffragette Now here's my thinking, if Merrill doesn't have a third Oscar by this point I think she's maybe at least nominated for Suffragette

Or at least gets more buzzed That I think would have turned people against her because she has maybe like 90 seconds of screen time in suffragette. Did you, I recently, as I often do, watched the Cecil B. DeMille presentation and acceptance speech that she gives in 2018 at the 2017 globes. Her speech in Suffragette is like the kicker to that. Like it's just like it's given such a point of prominence. It's built for career reels. Yeah.

More so than it is for maybe anything else. 2016 is kind of the Nadeer, right? Flofo Joe, Florence Foster Jenkins. She gets nominated at the expense of, among others, Amy Adams for arrival and Annette Benning for 20th century women, two of my favorite performances. And the scary thing is, at that point, if she doesn't have her third Oscar, what if her third Oscar was for Florence Foster Jenkins? And we'd be having the same conversation anyway. That was one of those things when that movie was released. least, that movie was really, really derided.

And people were like, I can't believe is what Merrill is doing. And then by the end of that year, there were enough people being like, what about Florence Foster Jenkins? What about Hugh Grant and Florence Foster Jenkins? And so many of us were just like, no, stop. Shut up. Quit it. Stop talking about that movie.

But then they did. So 2017 then is my thing, which is the post comes out at the very end. Like, Stephen Spielberg literally is just, like, tying up the parcel of it as, like, the year is ending and shoving it into a mailbox and being like, we got it. And yet, I think the movie is fantastic. I think she's incredible in it. I think she's so incredibly good in the post. I don't think, I don't know if it's enough for her to have won that year, given the level of competition. If, you know, if she's still seeking a third Oscar.

but who knows what the narrative But someone who already had an Oscar won that year so I actually think the opposite is true So maybe the alternate universe is if Viola Davis beats her in 2011 maybe Merrill's third Oscar is for the post and it's a much better world just in general.

I would also believe in a world where her third Oscar is for Florence Foster Jenkins and we still have Merrill has a bad third Oscar. So if Merrill's third Oscar is for Florence Foster Jenkins, we're currently living in the third Trump term. If Merrill's third Oscar is for the Post, Donald Trump dies of shame at the night of the 2017 Oscars. And we are in a better world today. That's what I'm saying. Everything after that, I feel like then we're into real diminishing returns territory. Has she been nominated since then? Right? She hasn't. That's her last

No. I think we're in the longest stretch between nominations for her and the longest stretch that she's been in a feature-length movie. Don't Look Up as the last one, which is, we're now, yeah, we're now going on four years. So it's, and again, it's not, for a while there, she's in Mamma Mia. Here you go again, briefly. She's in Mary Poppins returns in the controversial role of Cousin Topsie. I love her in the. that movie everybody else hates her um she's in another controversial role in brown face in the laundromat which somehow skated by without much controversy which is because no one watched that awful miffy it's bad soda you know i love sodaberg and i know you do too but like woof um it's the worst

sotoburg i think she's for what she needs to be pretty you know fantastic and little women as aunt march She has a couple really good scenes with Florence Pugh. I think she's really good. We both, we did our episode on Let Them All Talk. We both love her in that I think she's fantastic. And then, yeah, her last, her two most recent movies, unfortunately, see, Netflix is such a scourge. Her two most recent movies are the prom and don't look up.

She'll make more movies. She'll make more movies, and I think she can still get a fourth Oscar. her. Well, right now she's content to be making TV with her boyfriend, which good for her. Like, live your life, Merrill, do whatever you want to do. I don't necessarily even dislike her in the prom. I do dislike her and don't look up. I do think she's giving a bad performance in that movie. Well, look at the material. Like, she's not exactly given things that are actually funny to say. Right. It's all just smug and, you know, condescending to the audience. And then in the same span, she does more television. She's in that misbegotten season of Big Little Lies, where she plays. Starts so strong. That scene that she has with Reese Witherspoon at, like, the outdoor coffee shop, okay. The one where they cut the scene where she's, where Reese is going to throw an ice cream cone at her that we saw in all those paparazzi shots.

Tremendous. But, yeah, yeah. And even like the scene where she screams at the dinner table, which is, like, so weird and, like, funny. but like I'm at least like you're going for it but like by the end of that season yeah it got it just got really bad it gets bad speaking of becky and baker beckham baker was the judge in that hearing remember the hearing that ends that season yeah yeah um and then she's in she's in that anthology show extrapolations which i know you didn't watch and it's fine where she plays the um the i think she's like the narrated uh thought pattern of a whale. They get, the whole thing is about this like futuristic tech stuff. And they've figured out a way to like, you know, read a whale's thoughts and let it communicate through, um, a computer. And she's the voice of this whale. Samuel D. Hunter said, fuck my drag. And then Only Murder's in the building, which she's on,

she's done the last two seasons of. And I think she's fantastic on that. Her very first episode of Only Murders in the building when she shows up at that table read. And, does that weird Canadian accent, like Newfoundlander accent, I think she's a scream on that show. I think she's really, really funny and really good. So, at least... She's just waiting for the right movie role.

Well, which honestly, let the well fill back up. That's great. That's great. Merrill, we're rooting for your relationship. We are always rooting for you. Always. To bring it back to Hope Springs, though, This is the first thing after her third Oscar. So maybe people are less generously looking at this performance.

It's in every way, shape, and form a better performance and a better movie. The Iron Lady. Yes. Yeah, because I did kind of like sat upright in the first five minutes of this movie and be like, oh, no, this is going to be something that's going to condescend to people like these characters. And that's why I liked it as it doesn't. doesn't. And that is what I think, both in the performance and in the movie itself, I think, like, it's very basic language. It's very, you know, first thought, but at the same time, it's not condescending to these people. Even when it makes humor out of these people in their situation, it doesn't condescend to them. And I think Merrill especially is, because my other thing was like, I don't know if I'm going to believe Merrill Streep as like regular housewife, you know, who doesn't speak her. mind doesn't, whatever. And she actually does make me believe this, you know, woman. I think she's believable as someone who isn't as articulate, isn't as emotionally intelligent.

This is our second David Frankel movie. Our second David Frankl movie that definitely was cut down to sub 100 minutes. Our second David Franklin movie after, of course, collateral beauty. But he was the director of the devil wears Prada. So I don't know if we've ever had this conversation, because it's one that I don't know if I have very strong opinions on, but I'm wondering if maybe you do. This idea of Merrill Streep doesn't work with the big directors. Merrill Streep works with the David Frankles and the, um, who even directed the Iron Lady. You know what I mean? It's like, it's, yeah. And people talk about this like it's her problem, not the problem of the directors who don't make movies about people that

she could conceivably star as, like... Because she definitely worked with more big-name directors in the 80s, right? She worked with Mike Nichols, and she worked with Cindy Pollock, and she worked with, oh, gosh, who were some of the other ones that I'm not getting off the top of my head? Well, obviously, Woody Allen for when she was in Manhattan. She worked with Michael Chimino. It also feels like a snub against some of the actually really great directors that she's worked with, even if it's movies that we haven't talked about.

Like, she's worked with Carl Franklin. She's worked with West Craven. Like, maybe you don't love music up the heart, but that's a West Craven movie. Yeah. Well, I think it's incredibly a, it's like to Mike Nichols, who she had such a great, you know, working relationship with it. And he was originally the director attached to this. So I think Meryl had been a script for a while. Yeah.

I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that. And you could see how this, like, movie that's largely three people or two people in a room type of movie would be much more sharply handled by someone like Mike Nichols. Well, yes, totally true. But I still think this is a movie that's successful on its own terms. I think so, too. I'm just interested at the idea of this, the, the Merrill director relationship when it's not this sort of capital Auteur, right? Where you have a director who's essentially an employee as much as, you know, anybody else, where Merrill, where Merrill is the, or could be the dominant creative voice.

Because you also don't ever really hear that. You don't ever hear of her sort of being the, like, shadow director on things or the de facto director on things. She does not seem to have that flavor of ambition. No, no, no, no. She's never really wanted to do behind-the-camera stuff. But I think she picks her projects pretty knowingly, and I think it's interesting. I think some people want to sort of take that and then sort of imply that she's this woman with, like, bad or shaky taste because she could have her pick of roles and she ends up doing a bunch of movies, you know, interspersed with some really great women, you know? Sure, but like, but they're not all great. You know what I mean? Like she could have her pick of roles and she does rendition. She could have her pick of roles and she does the iron.

And yet, with other things, it's that she's sort of, you look at the stuff where it's like, she's the lead in Mamma Mia, she's the lead in doubt, she's the lead in August O'Sage County, where these are all big stage productions that need a big movie star to, you know, for their film adaptations. And so while on stage, you can have a lot of roles for women in. in Merrill's age range because that's where all the, like, you know, above title talent is, right? That's where you're going to get people who will show up to a show because it stars Bernadette Peters

or Paddy Lepone or Carol Channing or Cherry Jones or whoever or whoever. So now all of a sudden you need a movie star who's in that age range, who's a woman who can, like, headline this. And it's like, oh, well, right. Now you have to contend with the fact that you haven't made movie stars

in this demo. except for one person. So now you either have to take this movie and cast it with, you know, somebody who is not going to be someone who can open a movie, or you just cast Merrill. And I think most of these movies is just like, well, just cast Merrill. Like, we have to. You basically, who else you're going to cast?

You know what I mean? And then it ends up being this level of resentment. It's just like, why is it always Merrill? Why is it Merrill in doubt? and August O'Sage and into the woods and, you know, whatever, whatever. And I think it's just it's Hollywood's sort of dumbass, you know, the economy of, you know, limitation that is coming back to bite it in the ass. Yeah, I mean, like Hope Springs is an example of a movie that,

because it's a smaller, even on the scale of Meryl movie's movie, that you could see someone else being cast in this very, easily, but you could also see someone maybe even being a little bit better than Meryl in this role. But then the movie probably still doesn't get made. Just one of those star things

that always sucks, but like, Meryl has had her peers kind of jump on her a little bit, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's very, why don't we take one of these roles that Judy Densch hasn't gotten her paws on? Thank you.

Perfect impersonation. I want to jump ahead to Steve Carell because I know we've got a six-timers quiz there and I want to put some oxygen between that and the... As Dr. Bernie, Steve Carell, which I am trying to remember now because I was trying to take Talley, but I got into the movie and wasn't fully paying attention to this unnecessarily. I don't think he actually shares the screen with Merrill or Tommy Lee Jones. I don't think he is in a frame of the movie. that they are in that is not someone that could be a stand-in.

Even at the end in the beach, when they cut to him on the beach, do you think those are all, like, filmed later? Maybe he was there for the beach, but I do not think that he was on set. It was just the rap party that they're like, we're just going to film the final scene at the rap party. This is my thing about the wrestler, too, where I'm like, oh, there was a definite falling out that happened here because with the exception of that one sequence,

Marissa Tomei and Mickey Rourke are not in the frame together. Has there been ever talk that, like, Correlli? didn't get along with Tommy Lee Jones or didn't get along with... No, what I'm saying is, is that he filmed at a completely different time. Like, he was not available when they were filming those scenes. That's an interesting theory. I didn't even think about that watching this. Maybe this is just my...

Maybe this is me being a little paranoid, but I didn't really track him in the same... I think he's just a very... I think he's... And perhaps this is, you know, part of the... reason for that. I just don't think he makes an impression very much. I think... No, no.

It's one of those things where it's like, do you want to be in a movie with Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones, where you probably only have to work for maybe a week? Sure. But, like, I imagine he didn't come cheap. So it's just like, why wouldn't you just, like, save money and put, like, Robin Weigert there or something like that? Like, we all want to see, you know...

I mean, the movie's ten times better for Trump and Wigert. No, disrespect to Steve Gorell, an actor I do like. Or put Elizabeth Shoe, you already have. Elizabeth's shoes. She's already basically being a therapist. She's a bartender. That is true. So I want to sort of talk about like Steve Carell, the serious actor. This isn't like the most like serious actor, actor Steve Carell. But he sort of, he emerges from among other things, the Daily Show, you know, and he gets the American remake of The Office and the 40-year-old virgin. Well, he's an anchor man, of course.

Evan Almighty, too. Or Bruce Almighty first. Bruce Almighty is 03. But I think he's still basically just like the, you know, Bruce Almighty and Anchorman, he's both playing kind of an offshoot of a daily show type character, right? It's not like his daily show character, but still. And then 40-year-old version and the office sort of happened.

And then almost immediately, we see him sort of like branching out into a little bit more serious. stuff. I think he's really good in Little Miss Sunshine, I think, like, and was kind of surprised that, like, I guess with Arkin, of course you're going to go for Arkin. He's the, you know, he's the, you know, the legendary presence in that movie and his character dies and he's the smart mouth-billed man. But I think Correll would have made a ton of sense as a supporting actor play for that movie. I don't know. I don't always know what you think of Little Miss Sunshine. I don't know if we've ever had that. I haven't seen it in long enough time. I've never really been pro Little Miss Sunshine in that Oscar race. I think, I mean, I probably think that it's fine. I don't remember much of his performance.

The performance I always remember in that movie is Paul Dano and Tony Colette. Well, I love Tony Colette. And I was also maybe a little bit like, okay, about the Alan Arkin thing, which, like, love Alan Arkin. Yeah. Wouldn't want to take any blessings away from Alan Arkin. But, like, I guess it was just the way, like, it's like, oh, cuddly grandpa. Like, that, it always is like, that feels reductive. I've also, I'm on the other side of that a little bit in that, like, I was never that sad that Eddie Murphy didn't get an Oscar.

Like, sorry all the faggis didn't vote for you, Eddie. Like, chickens coming home to Roos. After. He deserved that Oscar, though. Deserved her. Evan Almighty happens in 2007. It's a total bomb. He kind of avoids fallout.

for that a little bit but he you know it definitely doesn't help um sequel that no one really asked for and kind of only happened because he got super famous yeah dan in real life is the other is the movie he makes that year that also makes me feel like and that's you know it's a peter hodge's movie it's a what if pancakes were pillows comedy comedy with heart what if pancakes were pillows what if dame cook steve korel and julia pinosher and a love triangle um they were back in that paddywick. But he keeps making these sort of like kind of B-level box office hits, Horton Here's a Who, gets smart, that kind of thing. I think Date Night is a missed opportunity in terms of the cast involved, where it's like him and Tina Fey. The supporting cast of Date Night is

wild, if you ever remind people of it. The fact that... I almost played it in Cinematrix today for Taraji. Mark Wahlberg, Taraji P. Henson, Leighton Meester, Mark Ruffalo, Kristen Wig, James Franco, Milakunas. The Milakunas bit. Galgadot is in that movie. John Bernthal's in that movie. Ray Leota. It's crazy.

So, but then he gets it despicable me, which is like, at the very least, he'll be able to pay his bills for the rest of his life because he's indespicible me. 2011 happens, crazy stupid love. A movie I don't care for, but a movie that had a lot of promise. And I think he's probably, it's probably remember, it's probably better for him than I give it credit for because I don't like it, but I feel like people do remember that movie a little bit. And he was the star of that movie. So that probably did well for him. Seeking a friend for The End of the World, another one where it's just like a war, maybe. You know what I mean? Just like, how's about now? And that's the same year as Hope Springs. And then finally, all of this

sort of like comes to fruition. Also, he's like the next year he's in the way, way back where he's playing, like, a mean, sort of, like, or at least, like, demanding stepfather type. So it's like, he's playing against type. Um, and then 2014 is what it all sort of happens. When finally he finds that role, I think that he had been looking for with something that could sort of, like, let him show his serious actor chops, um, which is Foxcatcher, where he plays John DuPont, where he gets his first Oscar nomination. I don't super care for him in that role.

I also feel like his two supporting actors in that movie, Channing Tatum and Mark Ruffalo really outshine him. Agreed, but I think I'm more pro on that performance than you are. Yeah. And that's fine. He's also got like, it's got the prosthetic nose. It's just a lot of, there's a lot of business, I feel like, in that. And listen, you know, I am not categorically opposed to a prosthetic nose. I would be a hypocrite.

It's very, very off type, too. So by that nature alone, it feels like it's more showy than maybe it's even intending to be. But because it's so out of field for what we expect, what we see Corell do normally, it feels more showy than I ultimately think it is or is trying to be. 2015, I think, is when public opinion sort of begins to, shift on him a little bit because he's in Freeheld, which is a bad movie, but he is in particular kind of really over the top in his role as the, and I know that like I've literally heard from people being like he's playing a real lawyer, Stephen Goldstein, and they're like, if you've ever

seen this guy talk on tape, on video, it's an accurate depiction of this guy. And I'm like, that's all well and good and that's fair. But like most people watching this movie don't don't know that. And most people watching this movie just see this, like, wildly over-the-top performance in this movie that's already disappointing them on the other levels. I will eventually see Freeheld when we do a free-held episode. episode on it. Yeah, that's true. You probably have more of an issue with The Big Short. I kind of like him in The Big Short. Yeah, I don't like The Big Short at all. Okay. I think that's a smug, condescending little movie. I have my issues with The Big Short, but in general, I think it's a very watchable movie, and I think he's good in it. It's an interesting movie in the fact that, like, he's in it with Ryan Gosling, and Ryan Gosling is essentially playing his crazy stupid love character, kind of again. Which is kind of wild. And puts his penis in his face again.

Well, that's true. But Corel is the sort of, I would, like, he's the conscience of that movie, right? He's the person sort of blowing the whistle early. And so he's definitely, it's odd that Bail is the one to get the Oscar nomination from that movie. I'll say that. Like, I don't think Bail is particularly bad, but, like, he's probably an indicator of who's the more like. or more well-regarded actor, for one. But I also feel like he had more business, right?

His character had that sort of, like, emotional personality, mental disorder, right? Where he was, like, sort of OCD. I believe he's playing an autistic person in the movie. Okay. If I'm remembering correctly, I could be misremembering. Yeah, I've definitely... Correll's also a composite character, not like these characters that are in there are famous people.

Right, right. But I think Bail's character, I think there was just... more of a hook to latch on to you. Plus, Correll's character was straddling the line between lead and supporting. I think he was nominated as a lead at the Globes that year. Regardless, I think this is the point where people start to sort of see, like, oh, I maybe don't think Steve Carell is a good actor, particularly in movies. And then he's sort of over the top, again, in Battle of the Sexes.

And people like... I like him in the... Stone in them. Well, and he's playing Bobby Riggs. Like, that's another one. Yeah, he's playing in over the top character. He's playing in over the top character. Yeah. But he's also in Last Flag Flying that year, which is to me such a dour kind of a movie across the board. And then... It's a shame because I think Carrell is good in that nothing movie. I just... I have... Oh, God. I every once in a while we'll sort of like look over that movie when we're going past our list of movies we could do. And I'm just like, I just don't want to watch last. We would have... We would have... We would have... We don't have to have a reason to do that movie. Because there's even other linklators. There's other linklators we could do. There's other corals. There's other fish prunes.

There's other Cranston's. Lord knows there's other Cranston's, but gun to my head. Watch a Cranston movie. And I'm like, I don't know. 2018 is another sort of snake bit year for him where he's in beautiful boy, but Chalema is getting the awards attention. He's in Vice, but Bale and Rockwell are getting the awards attention. He's in Welcome to Marwin.

And unfortunately, he does get the attention for that one. And that's a disaster. That's another movie that we've done. Recently, besides the Minions movies, he was in that really misbegotten John Stewart movie, Irresistible, that I never saw because everybody... One of the worst movies I watched in COVID. Hated it. Hated it, hated it, hated it. And then most recently, he's the motel manager in Asteroid City.

and I really, really hope he sticks around for further Wes Anderson stuff because I feel like Wes Anderson is somebody who could maybe do some fun stuff with him. I think he's the one who replaced Bill Murray in that movie. I think Correll replaced Bill Murray if I'm remembering correctly. Let's see if Wikipedia is of any help for us, Murray. Bill Murray was originally cast as the motel manager, but had to drop out of the role due to COVID. Yes, so there we go.

Asteroid City, perfect movie. Asteroid City, great movie. Let's see if he's in Wes Anderson's new movie, because I can never tell because the cast lists are insane. The Phoenician scheme, it is called... I'll be excited for this one. This one sounds like another pivot, so... It's a spy comedy drama thriller.

I don't know if Wes has ever done a thriller. Okay, cast list includes Benicio del Toro, Michael Sarah, Bill Murray, Riz Ahmed, Tom Hanks. I'm glad that Hanks is back doing it again. again. Cumberbatch, Scarjo, Charlotte Gainsborg,

Rupert Friend, I'm glad that Rupert Friend is back. William Defoe, Brian Cranston, Mia Therapulton, who I think is the character that

Anne Hathaway plays in Princess Diaries. This is a joke. This is actually a real person. Hope Davis is another name that I noticed. She's back. Yeah.

Don't see Steve Carrell on this, but you never know. So, um, all right. So this is our sixth Steve Carell film that we've done on this podcast. We started fairly early, crazy stupid love was in our first 30 episodes. Um, we've done Welcome to Marwin. We've done the way, way back. We've done the Battle of the Sexes, or some say Battle of the Sexes, because it's a cleaner. Beautiful boy and now Hope Springs. So, as we often do, as we always do, when we remember to do it, sorry, Kira Nightly. Unless it's Christmas time and we forget to do Kira Knightley.

Kira Knightley, we will get you on the backside. Don't worry. We're going to do a quiz. I come up with a little quiz to give to Chris where the answers are always one or more of those six movies. So, Chris, in the interest of getting on with it, would you like to do the Steve Karell Six-Timers quiz? Please, I would love. All right. So once again, these answers will be any combination of crazy stupid love. Welcome to Marwen, the way, way back. Battle of the Sexus, Beautiful Boy, and Hope Springs. Okay. So to begin, which one of these movies is the longest?

Beautiful Boy? It is not Beautiful Boy. Welcome to Marwin. It is not welcome to Marwin. Is it Battle of the Sexes? It's Battle of the Sexes. By one minute it is longer than Beautiful Boy. It is 121 minutes. to Beautiful Boy's 120 minutes. What is the shortest of these movies? Is it Hope Spring? It is Hope Springs.

It is Hope Springs at 100 minutes. It does not have any, we have not covered any sub-100-minute movies for him. Which is the best movie as percentageed by Rotten Tomatoes. Oh, boy. Is it Beautiful Boy? It's not. It's not.

Welcome to Marwin. It is not. I don't think it was. would be the... Is it the way, way back? It's not the way way back. Okay. Crazy stupid love.

Battle of the sexes. It's Battle of Sexes. By, again, one point. It is 84%. Way, way back is 83%. So Battle of the Sexes keeps eking these out. Worst Rotten Tomatoes percentage. Welcome to Marwin.

34%. Very good. Biggest box office earner. Um... Crazy Stupid Love? At 84.3 million, Crazy Stupid Love, Domestic. Lowest box office performer.

Beautiful Boy. Beautiful Boy. It's an Amazon release, but it was released in theaters, $7.6 million for Beautiful Boy. 7.6. Wow, I thought it was less than that. Which movie, well,

remember Amazon used to actually like release movies. Yeah, but even so, Amazon would release movies and then... Sure. Which movie has that? the same writer as the shape of water. So that's Vanessa Taylor and Guillermo del Toro. Vanessa Taylor.

Oh, it's this movie. It's up Springs. Yes. Which movie has the same writer as Miss Pedigrew lives for a day? Oh, I maybe don't know who that is, so I'll just guess that it's welcome to Marwin. No. Battle of the Sexes. The Script by Simon Beauvoy.

by Simon Beaufort and David McGee both did the script for Miss Pedigrew Lips for a Day. Miss Pettigru Lips for a Day, good movie. Which movie has the same composer as The Abyss? Oh. Is that James Horner? It's, I'm going to double check because now that you say James Horner, it makes me feel like it is. And I maybe read this wrong? Hold on.

I'm pretty sure. No, not according to this. It is not. Is it crazy, stupid love? It's not. Welcome to Marwin. It is welcome to Marwin. Do you want to take a guess on who it is?

Is it like Henry Gregson Williams? No, it's a Robert Zemeckis movie. Maybe this will help you a little bit. Oh, so it's Howard Shore? Alan Sylvesterie. Oh, Sylvester. Yeah. Who did Forrest Gump, right?

He's the one who did the little floaty feather. Maybe I never internalized that. Alan Silvestri is. Forrest Gump. In which of these movies does Steve Carell star opposite exactly three Oscar-winning performers? Um, well, Battle, no, not Battle of Sexes. Is it, oh, it's crazy, stupid love. It is.

Julianne Moore, Emma Stone, and... Marissa Tomei. Marissa Tome. In which two of these movies does Steve Carell star opposite exactly two Oscar-winning performers? The Way Way Back? Yes, Alison Janie and Rockwell. And Sam Rockwell, yep. And Battle of the Sexes, Emma Stone, and...

No, not... Not Battle of the Sexes. Okay. Oh, it's Hope's... Springs. D. Duh. Stars.

Yes. Scare quotes. In which two of, sorry, in which one of these movies, the Steve Karel star opposite exactly one Oscar winning performer. Battle of Sexes. Emma Stone, yes. Which, uh, which movie lost a major guild award to crazy rich Asians? Which of these six movies?

Um, well, for the year that that movie came out, that movie came out in 2017? So is it beautiful? No, Beautiful Boy is 2018. I'll say Beautiful Boy. Not Beautiful Boy. Welcome to Marwin. Welcome to Marwen. It lost the Art Direction Guild Award for Contemporary Art Direction to Crazy Rich Asians.

Which two of these movies opened during Leo season? Hope Springs. We're talking about August, obviously. And the way, way back. No. Oh. Um. Not Welcome to Marwin.

That was Christmas. Battle of Sexes was September. Beautiful Boy was October. So that, the crazy stupid love was an August movie? Was late, late, late July. It was July 22. Oh, okay. So there you go.

Which of these movies shares a title with a Cheryl Cole song that hit number one on the UK singles shirts? Well, none of them is called Parachute. That's the Cheryl Cole song that I like. Beautiful boy? No. Wouldn't it be wild if Cheryl Cole did a Welcome to Marwin's song? Crazy Stupid Love. It's Crazy Stupid Love.

Yes, Cheryl Cole's crazy stupid love. By the way, the existence of Cheryl Hole has completely ruined my ability to say Cheryl Cole's name. name, because I will, more often than not, just say Cheryl Hall. Cheryl Cole would be much-smouth thing, her way through. Welcome to Maui. Which of these movies shares a title with a ludicrous album that features the songs How Low and My Chick Bad? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Is it Battle of the Sexes?

It's called Battle of the Sexes. Yes. There you go. Good. Which of these movies shares a title with a 2003 movie starring Colin Firth, Heather Graham, and Mini Driver? Hope Springs. Hope Springs. Do you want me to read you the log line for this movie? Tell our listeners. Have you seen it? No.

Oh, okay. Colin Firth plays an English painter who travels to the town of Hope, Vermont, after a traumatic experience. There, he meets Heather Graham's character, a nursing home worker, who helps him get over the breakup between him and the Mini Driver character. So there. Hope Springs. Which movie was filmed in the same house as Zoe Kravitz's character in Big Little Lies? Beautiful Boy. Beautiful Boy. Yes. God, we're talking a lot about Big Little Lies in this episode. Which movie is directed by a two-time MTV Video Music Award winner for Best Direction of a Video? The Way Way Back. No. Isn't that Jonathan Dayton Valerie Ferris? No. That's, um... Anyway, it's, um, it's not beautiful boy.

It's, I can't imagine it's Dave Frankel. Now I'm trying to remember the other. It's not Zemeckis. Um, is it crazy stupid love? No. Okay. What's the movie that I'm forgetting? I've just said all of these movies, and now I'm forgetting one of them.

them. Hope Springs. Fine. I'll say Hope Springs. No, it's not Hope Springs. I'll say you have the directors, right? You just had the wrong movie. Oh, we did another?

No. Crazy Stupid Love? No? Not the way, way back. Dayton and Ferris did not direct the way way back. Right. That's Nat Rash. Jim Rash and Nat Fax.

Jim Rash. Just call him Nat Rash. Like Daniels. We got a case of the Natrash. Daniels, by the way, also has an MTV Video Music Award for Best Director. Do you know who holds the record for most VMAs for Best Director now? Who? Taylor Swift with four.

Wow. Because now everybody directs their own videos. Yeah. We used to have directors. Anyway. No, which of these six did Dayton and Pierce? Oh, it is. It's Battle of the Sexes.

They directed Battle of the Sexes. They have two. I forgot that. They have two VMAs. for Best Direction. They have Tonight Tonight Smashing Pumpkins and Red Hot Chili Peppers Californication. Go through, if you

have some free time, go through the list of winners for the directing award at the VMAs. There's some really good directors in there. Like, Finchers won a bunch, of course. But like directors you didn't even realize who were music video directors. It's interesting stuff. Daniels being one of those things that I learned.

Which of these movies won the AARP Movies for Grownups Award for Best Comedy? Way, way back. The way way back. Which of these movies was nominated for the AARP Movies for Grownups Award for Best Intergenerational Film? The, um, Beautiful Boy. Beautiful Boy. Care to guess what it lost to?

Um, 2018. Not Ben is back. No. Um. Did you know the Wikipedia page for Beautiful Boy has like, see also Ben is back? Is it if Beal Street could talk? No, you're not going to get it. It's Mary Poppins Returns.

Oh, fuck off. Which of these movies was nominated for the AARP Movies for Grownups Award for Best Time Capsle? Welcome to Marwin. No. Not the way we wait. Oh, Battle of the Sexes. It lost to Dunkirk. Two movies that absolutely deserve to be in the same category together for intergenerational.

It's just the weirdest category. Time Capsule, yeah. Which of these movies was nominated? for the AARP Movies for Grownups Award for Best Grown Up Love Story Hope Springs. Which two of these movies were not nominated for Golden Globes? The Way Way Back?

Yes. And Welcome to Marwin. Yes. The other four were all nominated for Globes. Which two movies feature stars of JFK? Hope Springs. And so many people in JFK

Is Lori Metcalf in one of these? No, but I wish she was. Donald Sutherland is Oh, Kevin Bacon, it's crazy stupid love. Yes, very good. Kevin Bacon. Which two movies feature stars of evening. Hope Springs.

Hope Springs, Merrill Street. And way, way back, Tony Collette. Very good. And finally, Which two movies feature stars of To Leslie. Battle of Sex is Andrea Reisbrough. Yes. And way, way back, Alison Janie.

Very good. Very good. Well done with the Steve Carell quiz. Okay. Can we talk about how this was a big year for Tommy Lee Jones outside of Hope Springs? Yes, because this is the year of Lincoln. I would be willing to bet he was second place for that supporting actor, Oscar. I was kind of rooting for him.

Mostly because I thought of, so this was the year that everybody was a former winner, as Seth McFarland was all too happy to tell you. Christoph Waltz won for Django Unchained. Tommy Lee Jones is nominated for Lincoln for playing Thaddea Stevens. Robert De Niro is nominated for Silver Linings Playbook. Philip Seymour Hoffman is nominated for the master and Alan Arkin is nominated for Argo for saying the line, Argo, fuck yourself. John Goodman probably should have gotten that nomination. I think Philip Seymour Hoffman gives the best performance of the five. I'm so, so in the lane of Philip Seymour Hoffman as a co-lead of that movie that I didn't want to have him win that.

So I was the one I wanted Tommy Lee Jones to win. I definitely think that Hoffman is the best in the lineup, but I do love Tommy Lee Jones and Lincoln. Christoph Waltz is also a lead is the other thing. You know what I mean? Chris off waltz is definitely more of a lead than Philip Seymour Hoffman is. Yes, yes. But I think they are. Which is probably why he won.

Yeah. Yes. And this is the year where I think DeCaprio probably missed getting in by like a little bit. And then if he does get in, I think he wins because he would have been the only one who hadn't won. Yeah. Tommy Lee Jones, always playing a real Tommy Lee Jones type here and also in Lincoln. Lincoln, he won SAG, right? Lincoln, he won SAG, yes.

I love him in Lincoln. He's such a, it's kind of, it's kind of over the, it's a little over the top, but I like what he's, he's just like he's just a fucking grump in that movie. But he's a politically effective grump. And I like him. This is also the year that during that whole, the core. it. I'm Hope Springs, whatever, whatever. They kept cutting to Tommy Lee Jones.

They cut to him and he's... And he's so grumpy. He's just so absolutely unamused. And it's also the same... This is the era of Grumpy Cat. So people were meming that shot of Tommy Lee Jones next to photos of Grumpy Cat. Oh my God. Oh, God.

We've talked so much about Obama Corps lately. And we never brought up Grumpy Cat until late... Grumpy Cat is very Obama core. We should have elected that person. president. Oh, rest in peace tartar sauce. Oh, they killed that cat finally eventually? No, they didn't kill the cat. Tartar sauce went peacefully. They'd worked, they put, they took it on a publicity tour and

and worked it too hard and drove it into an early grave. Okay. Listen, tartar sauce. Do you know why they named it Tartor sauce? Like, that they eventually landed on Tartor sauce? No. Because it originally wasn't Tartar sauce. It originally was the first syllable of Tartor sauce. Oh, that's not great. Yeah.

Didn't know that. That's why I'm mean to the owners of that cat. Okay. Well, yeah, that's fair. But we still love Grumpy Cat. We do love it. Tommy Lee Jones in this movie, I think, is really good. Yes.

But also, I hate Arnold for most of this movie. Of course you do. It's like, it's like, girl, just leave him. Just leave him. He is so nasty about every single thing. He's mean. He's mean. Is like, yeah.

He has no interest in... Has not worked on his shit one bit to like be a better person, better husband, et cetera. Like, he sucks. But like, he does eventually try. I think the movie, maybe one of the weaker spots of the movie is I still kind of come away from it unclear of what actually gets him to crack. And I think we're kind of built up to believe. And this is maybe where I think the movie is better than people give it credit for. There is this kind of reversal once they finally get talking about their sexual hangups that we were kind of led to believe that he is the one who has the sexual hangups.

You know, he's the one with the sexual baggage. But when they finally start talking about it, what it is is that he feels kind of rejected. in a way by her sexual hang-ups. Well, it's a movie that's honest about the fact that, like, these things are not linear. These things are not, like, these things go through phases. And as they talk, we find out that, like, she had gone through a phase where she was less interested in sex. And he would, you know, pursue it and she would back off. And then he then probably felt rejected.

And then he became uninterested and she became more interested. and she became more interested. And then she, you know what I mean? So it's like there's phases of the moon a little bit, right? And he injured his back, so he says. But then the back got better, but he decided to stay in the other room anyway because, you know, trailing off and yet, yeah, yeah. I also think to Jones's credit with this performance, especially because we're in the like, irascible old guy era that, you know, we people have won Oscars for that, you know. of, isn't this mean old man so cute and cuddly?

And I do think he makes Arnold an asshole throughout it without, you know, pulling any punches of, isn't this so funny, isn't this so cute? Yeah. That he is, you know, basically stonewalling her at all times in this movie until he finally cracks and has nothing positive to say about anything. And it's like, that made me kind of like the performance more,

even though I couldn't stand the guy because I feel like there's a lot in our culture that it's like, we have a lot of those guys and we want to think that isn't that so funny, isn't it so charming? Sure. No, they're jerks and they're especially jerks to their wives who are just trying to like have a relationship and a dialogue. Yeah. I think also, though, this is a movie that, and this maybe it does by telling maybe a little bit more than showing, but that acknowledges the fact that, like, marriages are more than what's happening right now. You know what I mean?

That marriages are about people with a history with each other and people who have a family together. And they mention the house a lot, that, like, she says that, like, the only thing keeping them together really is the fact that they live in the same house. But that house is also a home. That home is a thing that they have built that is not only, you know, brick and mortar or whatever, but it is, uh, um, you know, feelings and memories and all that sort of stuff. So it's like, these are, you know, these are things that keep, you know, people in relationships longer. But, like, this is a movie about what happens when even those bonds are maybe not enough to endure protracted, you know, times of disinterest and, you know, brushing people off and not being kind to people and that kind of a thing. I think it's also a good movie that, while a lot of the things in this movie are first thought, simple, you know, dialogue, I think it is a good, nuanced movie about how physical intimacy and emotional intimacy are not the same thing, but very intertwined.

Yeah. And how, you know, the relationship of those two things can be a breakdown of all intimacy. between two people? The most interesting thing, I think Correll's character has them do, and it's the first thing, but before he has them, you know, try sexual acts with each other at all,

he sort of gives them the assignment to go home and spend a certain amount of time just touching each other, and they end up, you know, they go, it's this sort of funny, awkward thing where they go to bed and they just sort of like place their arms

as they're facing each other. almost this weird, like, little, like, trust exercise. But it's, it's the one that I sort of, uh, I understood that because it is a thing of just, because Tommy Lee Jones sort of, um, he reacts against it. And he's just like, what is the point of this if I'm only doing this because you're telling me to? Um, but Corel is ultimately right in the fact that, like, you're going to start off doing it because you're being told to, but The whole point of the exercise is to be, to re-comf, re-comfort yourself. How, I am lost.

Re-familiarize? Re-familiarize. Hey, that's a word. Re-familiarize yourself with the concept of touching your partner, of actually, like, maintaining this physical contact. And what? Because it's not just the touch. It's what comes up, I mean, I mean, uh, walked myself right into that one. in like a rake like you stepped on a rake my friend smacked me right in the middle of the forehead broke my nose um again the metaphor of the breaking of the nose yeah yeah um because it's i mean you can't just touch someone for what is it he gives them 30 minutes and not talk to them like dialogue's gonna be happening you're gonna be talking through it's it's what comes up in the exercise what comes up through

forcing yourself to do something. I don't know how much I subscribe to that theory of, like, love languages or whatever, but I know that, like, one of them is physical touch. And I know that, like, that's always a thing, you know, for me. I'm very much, like, I like to, like, hold hands. I like to sort of, like, even with, like, friends, you know what I mean? Just like, I really appreciate friendships that have a degree of, sort of physical intimacy to them.

And, and there's a... Is that your top love language? This is again... Are you a physical touch person? I don't know. I don't know if I subscribe to any of that. My love language is... I've found love language is actually very useful.

Just as dialogue in a relationship. My top love language is quality time. I love that. See, and again, I've, you know, I have never really been... Oh, God. I don't know. I don't want to get into the whole I've never really been in a relationship thing because this is not a relationship podcast,

but Steve Karell can come over and minister to me or something. But, like, I believe that that's a thing for people. You know what I mean? Just like, I just, there's a limitation to how much it applies to my life. But. Acts of service means absolutely nothing to me. What is that supposed to be acts of service? Like, I will, like, make coffee for you in the morning.

I will do the dishes. I will, that kind of thing. specifically things for you like I will pick up your dry cleaning I will put away your dirty laundry I will Gotcha gotcha And I'm like

I would rather do all of that myself Thank you I am too independent of a person Right Yeah because it's quality time Touch acts of service Gifts Gifts are nice

Gifts are Gifts are more meaningful to me In like friendship situations Sure Because it's like friends don't just like like give each other gifts usually. Yeah. And then what's the last one?

Oh, words of affirmation. Also means nothing to me. See, I am somebody... We need nothing to me. I've been in situations where like, where if you have like a very proactive sort of HR department, they'll get into things like that. We're talking to you about like what is your preferred method of communication,

and like, how do you... I've been asked on like forms, like HR forms. when I started out of places, how do you prefer to receive praise for your work, whether it's in private, whether it's, you know, being acknowledged in like a meeting in front of, you know, your coworkers, whether it's, you know, like an award, you know, by your company or whatever. And I remember looking at that, and I literally am just like, all of it. All and often?

I'm very, I'm very, I guess I'm very much in that, like, words of affirmation thing. Like, I would, you know, yes, tell me, tell me nice things about me. Tell me more nice things about me. That's great. In all formats. In all formats. In all communication. Right, right, exactly.

Gift cards to things, yes. Create a teams chat, just to praise me. So, yeah, it's interesting watching a movie like this that's about marriage counseling for people who have been married this long because, like, it's so. So completely out of my sphere, but again, as Merrill told us in her Cecil B. DeMille's speech, an actor's job is to inhabit someone else's life and make you feel what it is to be in their shoes. So good for Merrill in this situation. Anything else you want to say about, let me look in my list of, I did write down some notes, let's see.

Oh my God. You can tell my taste in movies because this... I can't get it with my screen. I have copious notes for this movie. For next week's, I have a lot of the same note over and over again. Oh, interesting. Girl dump him. Oh, that Arnold's, Arnold, when they get into fantasy talk of what fantasies they might have,

that Arnold's was that she would give him a beege at the office, specifically at tax time. Oh, at tax time. That is funny That was cute That was cute So he wants sexual relief at times of great pressure See? Who doesn't?

Relatable I wrote to how Frying up one strip of bacon is so sad No, okay The one strip of bacon And then at the base of the bacon Is where they crack the egg And it's a visual cue

After they've had sex The bacon and eggs I wrote this down It's a cock and balls It's a naughty visual gag after they finally have sex. I didn't notice that. I made that note after the very first, the one at the beginning where she's just cooking him one egg and one strip of bacon. But just it's, oh, it's so sad.

The soundtrack is kind of out of control in this movie. It leans fully into that Annie Lennox YQ in, you know. Oh, I wrote that down too. So good. I said, we're putting a lot of emotional ways. on Annie Lennox in this movie because they play that song front to back and it literally is like telling you it literally is just like um why can't you ever learn to keep your big mouth shut um these are the this is how I feel do you know how I feel because I don't think

you know how I feel I'm like movie we know we know what's going on my god also he plays Al Green's let's stay together which is like I mean come on like top 10 songs of all time But it's like he, you know, can't be intimate with his wife the whole movie. He plays her one Al Green song, and she's basically sliding off the couch like a slug. Oh, God. I love that. I love Al Green. I love that song so much.

I know that it's like one of those needle drops in movies that it's like, you need to retire it. It's been used too much. No, I think we can keep listening together in movies. You're like, play it loud. This is your, this is your Bob Dylan. This movie is meant to be played loud. Yeah. Ingrid Michelson needle drop in this movie.

Yeah, I like Ingrid Michelson. I wrote girl divorce him no less than four notes in this. You would be a great marriage counselor. Maybe what we can end this on? Joe, what's your sex tip for straight women from a gay man? Oh, God. My sex tip for a straight woman from a gay man is if he ain't talking about it, dump him. If he won't talk to you about it.

Dump him. There you go. Mine is, if you can make a cock and balls out of bacon and eggs, then you're golden. I don't know. I don't know. My sex tips are none of their business and their sex lives are none of mine. They want to be touristy, too. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, also that. We want to tell our listeners what the IMDB game is before we get into it? One second. I have to get back into my document because Google kicked me out. I also realizing I have to pick an IMDP game, so hold on. Why did Google just kick me out? That has never happened before. Oh, sometimes they will.

It's annoying. Maybe because I never log out. Maybe. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as

a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's the IMDB game. Sure is the IMDB game. How are we doing this? Are you giving first? Are you guessing first? I'll guess first. All right. You mentioned the other film called Hope Springs, including some of its cast members. For you, I have selected Mini Driver. Mini Driver. Mini Driver. All right. Mini Driver, would you believe it there are two television shows in her known for? Okay. Is one of them The Riches? The Riches.

I liked that show. 20 episode Wonder The Riches. I believe Golden Globe winner The Riches? Maybe. I also feel like she got an Emmy nomination out of that. Perhaps. She was good on that. That was a good show.

And also, then. for television. Will and Grace? Incorrect. Okay. I'm going to try and remember the other TV show that she was in... Oh, is it about a boy? Incorrect. Okay. Now I get ears.

So I guess that counts as to... Yeah. We've never really settled on a TV one, usually because we don't have multiple TVs in an IMD and someone's known for. Your movies are 95 and 97, and the television show ran from 2016 to 2019. Yeah. It's something, I know, I know the era.

Okay. The movies are Goodwill Hunting and Circle of Friends. Correct. Okay. 2016 to 2019. Am I right that it's like an adaptation of a TV or of a movie? Um, it is not, though it does share a title with a very different movie.

Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, oh, um, is it the ABC sitcom that I really liked? Speechless. Speechless. She's great on that show. I love that show. I interviewed what's his name, John Ross Bowie from that show a couple of times, and he was wonderful.

Mini Driver is great in something, I believe it. Oh, tremendous. So funny. What a great, really good family sitcom. Honestly, super underrated. It was on, um, at the same time. is like fresh off the boat and blackish and all that sort of stuff. And it never really quite got the amount of attention that the other shows got, which is too bad.

Anyway, for you, I decided to be a little stinker. And I followed the David Frankel path to one of the movies that he directed. The what was this nominated for? I believe this was a Golden Globe nominee. Yes. The Golden Globe nominated film, One Chance. about Paul Pott. Oh, God, not James Corden.

Oh, James Corden. Give me the known for on James Corden. One, television show. Two, animated. This is where the stinker comes in. See, the thing about the television show is Carpool Karaoke could vary. Like, Carpool Caryoki was on the James Corden show, but because it has its own internet footprint, it could be carpool karaoke, and I'm going to say carpool karaoke.

It's not carpool karaoke. Okay. Then it's the James Gordon show or whatever. It is. I'm surprised, though, that you didn't consider Gavin and Stacey, because that was a very popular British television show. Yeah, but that's not known for popular, you know. I agree. I mean, you turned out to be right, but still.

All right. So, one strike. One non-animated movie. and two voice performances. Yes. Is he in like the emoji movie? I'd believe it, but it's not one of his note for. Okay.

So that means I get my years. Oh, did you, no, did you guess that? Okay. I guess Carpool karaoke. Right. Okay. So your years are, and I don't think I need to specify, which are the animated ones,

but I suppose when we get it to free for all of hands, we can do that. 2014, 2016, 2018. Okay. So none of these are the prom. Right. So he's not going to be a lead in it. He's not in its...

Is 2018 Oceans 8? No. Oceans 8 was... Well, it was 2018, but no, it's not Oceans 8. Okay. He is a voice in the emoji movie. Oh, is one Nomeo and Juliette? No, it's not.

You're really getting a sense of how many dog shit animated movies he's a voice in. Emoji, Nomeo and Juliette. I've heard the Nomeo and Julietts are good. By the way, the prom isn't as known for because, as you suggested, when that movie came out, he was sent to the Hague. Exactly. Yeah. Um, it scrubbed off the face of the earth, that film. All right.

Can't wait till we do an episode on it. Um, uh, I think I can get, it can't be a despicable me movie. It's not. I don't think. Both of these movies. Funny enough to be in a dispute. Both of these movies got at least one sequel. Oh, so it's not like the first one and then the second one.

No, it's two different. Damn, this is going to be impossible. One of them is an Oscar nominee. But not for animated feature. Oh, so it's a song nominee? Yeah. Song animated. Oh, I'm knocking on the door.

It's not, is it Disney? No. No. What were those animated movies that got song nominations, but not? Um, mm. Oh. The other one, the non-Oscar nominee, he plays the title, the titular character. Um, also, what a shame, none of these are cats.

Hmm. Um, it plays the titular character of an animated movie that got a sequel. I will, okay, here's what I will say. I say animated, and it is, but there's, it's animated and live action in the same movie. Okay. The one where he plays the title character. Is it a, is it one of the oven and the chipmunks? No, but same.

Hmm. I don't know if it's the same, it might be the same animal family. Peter Rabbit. There you go. Peter Rabbit. Okay. What year is Peter Rabbit? 18, 2018.

What? Yeah. That's how recent a Peter Rabbit movie. are, Jesus. All right. So one animated, one non-animated, both are actually Oscar-nominated movies. So the 2016 is not animated. No, 2016 is animated.

Okay, so 2014 Oscar nominee that he is in, this is the year of... Talked about it today. Vice? No, that's not, it's too early for Vice. It's, um, not Foxcatcher. But it's the year of Foxcatcher. So, it would be, not Theory of Everything. What did we talk about today? He's not in still Alice. No, thank God. Great movie. Doesn't need to be sullied.

Not Birdman. God, can you imagine? I know. Grand Budapest Hotel? Not Grand Budapest Hotel. The only person not in Grand Budapest Hotel. No, we talked about it today. One Chance? No, that Taylor Swift song did not get nominated.

No. Not for a, not for a. Academy Award. It was nominated for the Gold. Globe. The previous year. All right. Hints. Well, they're both

musicals. Oh, okay. Oh, Mary Poppins return. No. Nope. A 2014 musical. Jeez. Why am I blanking? You've forced it.

You forced it out of your memory. Meryl isn't... Oh, it... It's not Mamma Mia. Sure isn't. Not Mama... No. Not Mama Tua.

The... What musical came out in 2014? It's an Oscar nominee. Oh, my God. We talk... Why would we have talked about it if not for Meryl? Oh... Is it, is it, it's not Disney.

You already said no Disney. Um, it, was it an original musical? No. It's an adaptation of a stage musical. Too late for Les Mis. Oh, it's into the woods. Into the, I forgot that he sullies the part of the baker. He's the baker.

This is the male lead of the movie. All right. Oh. Animated Movie, 2016, Oscar nominee. Animated movie in 2016 nominated for original song. This would have been the drive-it like we stole it year. Should have been. Not getting nominated.

Right. And so Moana would have been nominated. Two La La Land songs were nominated. Zootopia? Nope. Zootopia should have been nominated. It wasn't nominated, but it was not. It wasn't nominated.

So what was the other weird animated song nominee that year? The nominees were a very famous pop performer and a very famous pop producer. Not Gaga. Oh, Sam Smith, no, Sam Smith won. Spector was earlier than that. The year before. Um, it's not Moana. Um, Moana should have won that Oscar.

Yes, it should have. Um, of course, well, this might have been the year that not all of the nominated songs were performed on the Oscars. That's probably why I'm struggling. But this one definitely was. Was one of them a, documentary that James Corden was in, no.

No. God forbid. Okay. You're going to be so mad, not because you like, like this movie, but because you don't like this movie. You're just going to be mad that you had to like. Oh, an animated movie I don't like that has James Corden and was nominated for an original song Oscar.

I don't think it's like one of your like most hated. I probably dollars to donuts you have not seen this movie but you're just oh it's it's trolls it's trolls it is it is trolls it is trolls I got there but wow that took me a long time to get the can't stop the feeling Chris it opened the Academy Awards that year I should have gotten that way sooner uh yeah so an absolutely unwell James Corden IMDB game just as the profits foretold so uh good job good job getting out of that one and that dear listener is our episode. If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr

at Thisheadoscurbuzz.com. You should also follow our Instagram at ThisHad Oscar Buzz. You should also subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com slash this head Oscar buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? You can find me on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on Blue Sky and Letterboxed at Joe Reed,

read spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at patreon.com slash Demi Pod. That is spelled D-E-M-I-P-O-D. I picked a good year to do a podcast on the films of Demi Moore. So we are enjoying ourselves and we are enjoying the run to the Oscars that is happening therein. All right, we would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Miebius for their technical guidance, Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else

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