This Had Oscar Buzz - 331 – Saltburn (with Louis Peitzman!)

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

We’re here with your Oscar hangover cure to break the seal on the THOB Class of 2023 and we brought Louis Peitzman along for the chaos. It’s Saltburn time! After the COVID-era Oscar success of Promising Young Woman, all eyes were on Emerald Fennell to deliver again with her follow-up. Barry Keoghan stars in the film as a … Continue reading "331 – Saltburn (with Louis Peitzman!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Mel and Hack. Melon Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Mr. Quick. And here he is now.

Oh, what beautiful eyes. Oh, how wonderful. Yeah, I told you it wasn't a minger. Oh, but darling, you're kind about everyone. You can't be trusted. I had them hang up an old school dinner jacket. You dress for dinner here. Dressed for dinner.

Yeah, it's like, well, it was like black tie. I think I like to live in more than last year's one. You're so, um, fell of what? Real. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's about to take out a second mortgage to send our daughter to NYU study creative writing. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my co-host who likes them Apple Bottom jeans and the boots with the fur. Chris File. Hello, Chris. And you better not kill the groove. I have to say I misread the outline at first, and I thought you said that I had

Apple Bottom jeans and boots with the fur. Do you or did you ever have Apple Bottom jeans or boots with the fur? I can neither control. We are taking the fifth on that. As is our custom, we get nervous when we have a guest and we haven't introduced them because we are that type of personality. I don't know what kind of astrological sign communicates that kind of effect, but here we are. We have a guest. I believe Libra is our guest.

You're a Libra, right, Lewis? I am a Libra. I'm just really driven by Joe bringing up astrology and, like, a guest. non-pejorative way. Oh, I'll get there. Don't worry. No, don't worry. By the end of the sentence, I was all ready to shoot down astrology as bullshit. You know, this is a very sagittarius movie, what with all of the horn, the antlers and the horns. That's such terrier. You know what? Yes. That's the ram, isn't it? No, the ram's an area. See, this is the thing about me in astrology is, I know nothing. I believe in it, not at all, but I know weirdly facts about it,

This is a Gemini-coded movie because of the duality of the main character. Duality of sexuality. Right. Everything, yes. What's the gay one? What's the gay sign? Because it's also that. Beck...

Ask any gay guy. They will tell you their sign is the gay one. What's the one that you can make the least... What's the least sexy sign to be like, well, you know how we... Like, it's... Ask any gay guy. They will tell you that their... X's sign is the least sexy sign.

Fair, fair. Back from our Dolores Claybourne episode, we are welcoming back pop culture writer Lewis Pitesman to this head Oscar buzz. Welcome back, Lewis. Thank you for having me. Of course. Listen, we need all hands on deck here. It's the Saltburn episode. We are breaking the seal on 2003. And we have promised the listeners that we would start with Saltburn. I feel like it's the episode that makes the most sense to start the year. with. I think for as much as not everybody liked this movie, and we'll get into that,

it is one of the movies, especially of the movies that didn't get nominated for any Oscars, that really helped to define the year vibe-wise. I feel like it aesthetically kind of bled through to a lot of, to a lot of that year. And I'm eager to unpack it. The first, we're back for real year post-COVID. Right. In terms of Oscar, I think. Well, and it's not like this movie made a lot of money.

It's one of those things where, you know, the really obnoxious people who'll be like, you know, when you look at the numbers, like hardly anybody ever actually watched Mad Men, but like all you people, or like nobody ever actually watched Succession. And it's like, yeah, jerk off, like, fine. And can we all talk about it now and you can go away and watch whatever thing is sufficiently popular to talk about? You know, yeah, like young Sheldon, fuck off. Right, exactly. It's not interesting. We're going to talk about the interesting thing to talk about. Do you agree with that assessment of Saltburn as being like one of the movies that sort of looms large when you look back on two years ago? I mean, I feel like discourse-wise, yes, right? Like, it definitely was one of the most talked about and also had this, like, narrative, I think, grounded in a hatred of Emerald Phenel that kind of kind of. projected a lot onto this movie

that I'm not sure there's enough going on for that to be a fair argument but yeah I mean it definitely it definitely feels of its time also the discourse I was like going through letterbox and like reading reviews from

way back then and I already felt like the discourse felt outdated to me and it felt like the things people were saying back then about how tame this was and how embarrassing it was that anyone thought this movie was like you know, sexually explicit. Like, to me, that already feels outdated, given the culture of repression that we have

been, you know, rushing into. It's amazing how much has shifted and adjusted since then. It's also, there's, there was, I think, a tone of pushing back against a narrative that didn't exist with Saltburn, where I feel like there was a preemptive making sure that people didn't give saltburn too much credit. And it's like the people who liked that movie weren't going to give it like a Peabody Award or anything like that. It was, you know, I don't think anybody who was lining up for like a Nobel Prize or whatever for Emerald Fennell. But I think people were, the people who really kind of, you know, were rubbed the wrong way by this movie were preemptively trying to make sure that Emerald Fennell was not elevated. to some sort of, you know, master filmmaker status just because people were horny for Jacob Allorty in 2023.

Yeah, I also feel like if we're talking specifically about the discourse around this movie, this feels like the definitive first movie for, oh, TikTok is bad for movies movie. I'm going to make you defend that in this episode, but like I'm going to have a little bit more of an open mind. that I might normally have. You mean, you mean, thinking TikTok is bad or? No, I'm not going to defend TikTok. No, I'm saying that this movie is, this movie is a product of TikTok. No, I'm not saying it's a product of TikTok. I think it's the first time that we realized, oh, the discourse is especially stupid about movies over there.

Oh, yeah, the discourse on TikTok was none of my best. Because that's where it really took off that this movie was so extreme, so sexually explicit, because when it first was in theaters before it hit the streaming place, platform. It kind of died a quiet death. You know, the audience that it was maybe meant for didn't really see it right away. And like, it kind of died a quick death also because the telluride response was not good. Right. Get into that. But then once it hits the platform, that's when TikTok really took off with this movie. And that's where you get the people, you know, clutching their pearls. Like, they've never seen a sex scene in a movie before. Like, they've never seen a character masturbate in a

movie before. I think that it's, it's interesting, though, because I feel like there are things in this movie that I still think you don't see a lot in mainstream American film. I agree with this. Like, I don't think that you see, uh, menstrual blood kind of lingus and like in, in French movies, like, for sure. Sure. Right. In mainstream American movies, like, I don't like, you know, I think that there, it's, I think there was kind of a, an assumption that this would be tame and people kind of walked into it with a lot of the sort of preconceived notions of what this would be. So there are aspects where it does hold back in ways I find annoying, namely in the clearness of this central relationship.

But I think, like, in terms of explicit content, I still feel like it's not quite the, like, PG movie that people were acting like it was. We've had this conversation before where it's just like, how many movies are you watching where people are slurping up Cummy Bathwater, like, honestly, whether you're acting? If people are acting so, like, blazze about it. It's just like, oh, it's so bourgeois. Check my letterbox diary, baby. I mean, I personally, like, I can't speak for anybody else.

But for me personally, I'm not scandalized by any of the sex in this movie. If anything, it's more like, oh, this is kind of fun. Because I think people who are maybe on the right track with this movie, who get what this movie is going for. It's like, oh, this is cruel intentions. That was my take on it. I was like, this is. This is not going for provocation.

It's going for a good time, you know. I think there were a lot of people making assumptions about what Emerald Fennell thought she was doing with this movie. And I agree with you there that I don't feel like she thought she was making some kind of like elevated brideshead revisited, you know, kind of a thing, even though. I mean, that's clearly an influence. Of course. I don't think people, I don't think the movie is necessarily fully brain dead, but there's a thing where there is something to the negative reception where people are like, oh, you think you're so smart, oh, you're playing in a sandbox of these elevated influences and you're an idiot, but. Yeah, I think there was a lot of assumption that if you liked Saltburn, you were a big old dumb, dumb, and those kinds of. Some of us are just horny and have like a low bar for what makes us horny in movies.

And I think that sometimes Jacob O'Lordy just finds you at the right time in your life. And you're like, that is a beautiful man. That man makes me feel like Ian Summerhalter and Rules of Attraction, where I'm just like, I think you were captured at sort of your peak beauty. And it's doing it for me. And I was, yeah. Necessarily find you attractive outside of that. I was a little sick of being made to feel like an idiot or a simpleton or, you know, for sort of feeling that way about this movie, for feeling not necessarily scandalized, but like titillated. You know what I mean? Like it's a titillating movie. I just got done doing my Demi episode on Indecent Proposal. And movies used to just get to be titillating. They used to just be used to exist to like get you a little horny. You know what I mean?

and you didn't have to justify it in any kind of, like, highfalutin way or whatever. And I don't think that Saltburn is trying to justify it. Like, Indecent Proposal had ideas about the economy, too. You know what I mean? It had ideas about the wealthy and whatever. But ultimately, it was a movie about, like, should Demi Moore fuck Robert Redford? Because, you know, he's offering her and her husband a million dollars. And this is a movie about, like, should Barry Keogan, like, fuck a path,

through this wealthy family because he can, and I'm down with that. Also, a movie with, I would say, confused class politics and DC proposal, where it's not, I'm like, are you trying, am I, am I on the side of Robert Redford? He is much, much more charming and likable than Woody Harrelson in that movie. Totally. And also has maybe less, you know, toxic masculinity issues than Woody Harrelson does. In decent proposal, I will say, is an objectively bad movie. I don't agree.

After just talking about it, I don't think I agree. I think it's a pretty good movie. See, Saltburn, I feel kind of like on an island. I am not scandalized, nor titillated, nor do I think that it's some disaster, nor do I think that it's all these other things that people think it is. I think the movie's fine. I can have a good time, but then I have, like, substantive, textual issues with this movie. How I kind of know that this movie and the discourse permeated is this is the rare movie that my mom asked me about at the time.

She was like, my co-workers keep asking me if you've seen Saltburn. And I'm like, oh, mom. She's like, yeah, they say that it's really raunchy. And it's like, well, not to me. I've seen movies with some stuff in it. I don't think that this is some disaster. I think it's fun. I think she's kind of ripping off Savia Dilan at every sense.

That is a burn. I'm sorry. No, she made a Zavie Dilan movie. And, like, I say that as someone who likes probably more Zavie Dilan movies than the average listener of this movie, while I also think he's made some terrible movies, too. Okay. But, like, that's the vibe, right?

Like, that's what's going on in this movie. I guess. I guess. I don't know. She's working on the academy ratio. She's got needle drops that are anachronistic, but think that they're right on time. Like, to me, it was like, it was cruel intentions with more sort of sumptuous visual elements, right? Like, better cinematography, better locations, you know, more sort of the, the, obviously shooting it at this giant, you know, English, manner, whatever, gives it a little bit more of a sense of opulence than like the cheap

showiness of the Upper East Side or whatever. But I don't know. I thought it was, I thought it was an incredibly engaging movie that ultimately lasts too long and of course has a really dumb ending. I don't think anybody, you can like the movie and not defend the last 20 minutes once it sort of hits that flash forward. My problem with this movie is like the real bookending of it because the first half hour of this movie

takes forever for it to get moving. I think you need that though. I do think you need that. Yeah, but it takes a long time. It takes a long time. That part feels less dragging to me than the third act and how like, you know, once Jacob already dies

and it just kind of keeps going, it's like there's a lot more there. It's like 40 more minutes of movie. And that was more where I was like, all right, let's pick it up. Even before that, I feel like. And then it treats everything that's been happening that we fully understand what is going on like it's a twist. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We know that.

We got it. We got it. We realize that he is intentionally picking people off. It's one of those things where it's just like, what did you think we thought was going on? Like that was sort of, that's, that was my thing when we got to the end of the movie. is like what where did you think we were what page did you think we weren't i agree with you and i also feel like i don't always know that that emerald finel understands what's going on

with oliver as a character where i think that there's a lot of wavering between obviously at the end he's a mastermind who planned all of this but also like the sexual obsession he has kind of comes and goes and it's never entirely clear to me how much of that is i agree with that i don't know know if I agree with that. I may be even, I'm even more so to the other end. At the end of the movie, I'm kind of like, so he, this,

it wasn't a sexual thing between, I don't, whatsoever. Like, he just like, no, he drank the bathwater. We were just led to believe that. He drank the bathwater, you think that was part of his plan? I mean, he, he doesn't want to, he wants his money. I think he drank the bathwater because he's, like, horny for him. You can do

both things. This is the thing. As I, and this is why I think the ending is clumsy, Because the ending allows for an interpretation that wanting Felix and loving Felix and also hating Felix are mutually exclusive things. They are not. Like, even if Oliver wants to make it sound like he hated Felix, he hated all of them, that's cope, right? Like, that's ultimately, it makes him feel better to be like, I hated you all and this was my only objective this whole time. Like, of course he was in love with Felix. Everybody was in love with Felix.

Of course he lusted after Felix. He did also hate him. He hated his wealth. He hated his family's cripples and all that. It's not him saying that he hated him that makes that I, it's not that I believe that. It's that the ending makes it so much about his entire plan was to inherit salt burn and destroy this family, that it muddles some of the stuff where it's like I, you know,

I've seen Talvin Mr. Ripley, like I can buy someone kind of having a jealousy and be sexual obsession, love, hatred thing going on that totally, I don't need, like that, that totally works for me and that maybe what's happening here. But I think she muddles it a little bit when she makes it so much about his plan to inherit the manner. But you don't think there's a reasonable interpretation of this. That is, that is Oliver manipulated events to get closer to Felix, to get closer to Felix, to sort of to get into his life, to ingress. To, to, sort of to get into his life, to ingratiate himself with the hope of, you know, this fantasy of this, you know, gorgeous, wealthy, charismatic boy, possibly loving him. And then once he realized that that

was not ever going to happen, then the sort of simmering hatreds that being around all these people were bringing out in him led him to, you know, I don't think, I don't, I don't think you necessarily have to believe that his plan from the moment he, like, let the air out of Felix's tires was to, like, kill his entire family and take over Saltberg. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, I, I, I, ultimately, I agree with your reading of it. I'm just saying, like, I think the movie is a little bit muddled about it. And I think that, like, the monologue, which is very much, like, yes, maybe it's coat, but I feel like it's, it's tough for me because it's, it makes it so literal of, like,

every step in my plan was about this outcome and so like because it's the end of the movie and it's the book ends like I feel like it does it makes it easier to have a reading that is a little bit less clear about how much of that was this plan and how much of it was

genuine obsession but I don't think it's any way to actually read it where there's not some sort of obsession because otherwise it makes no sense. Right. It's just that in the complicated what is already not that complicated and we have already

absorbed that information that's where it gets muddied that's where his you know the internal implications or the internal intentions and desires of these relationship become way

more complicated than we already understood them to be yeah also I mean also I think the time jump doesn't help with that because if it were kind of like his rejection by Felix motivates him to really take this like extra turn toward villainy then it's you can kind of see it if it's more condensed but if it's like it's like 16 years later and he's just like then he and rosman pike like kind of get together unclear and then he's like it's a long time to wait out richard

de grant's death well yeah it just feel it just kind of feels like it's it's like i think that you know there's like i said but she has the ending she wants some kind of retconce it a little bit. Like, and, you know, the ending is fun and satisfying. I have some issues with the needle drop. But it does feel like she's working a little bit backwards from what she wants this moment to be, this final thing. Because it's like, okay, yes, we're going to get to this point. A decade and a half has passed, but that doesn't matter.

Here's how we got to, you know. Right. I don't know. I mean, as is sort of becoming clear, I am on a bit of a hair trigger with this. I feel like I probably harbor some resentments, some two-year-old resentments from a lot of really sort of like smug people who decided to make it their personality to hate Saltberg.

I don't think either of us, I don't think Chris or I hate the movie. No, I know. People who make their personality out of hate, this movie. I'm kind of like, this movie? Like, it's, this movie's fine. Like, I think it has narrative issues at the very beginning and the very, the very beginning, I say, it's a half hour and the beginning of the movie. And if that's what people's problem with this movie was, I would have no issue with people having a problem with it. I think it's again, I think it's people who wanted to make a big honkin deal about Emerald Fennell.

being a, you know, an imperfect vector for class commentary because she's the daughter of a wealthy jewelry designer. And people who were still kind of mad that promising young woman got a best picture nomination and were sort of annoyed by the, you know, the, the, the abracrombiness of the Jacob Allorty thing, and that sort of all converged into this perfect storm of interpreting Saltburn as the movie of choice for sort of posers. And that, I don't know, that stuck with me. That has stuck with me for two years. I always felt like, see, I think that that is thrusting a lot onto the movie that is not there. I don't really think she's, she's not trying to make class comment, to me.

She's not trying to make some type of class commentary beyond L.O.L. She's not making the class comment that people want her to make. Though, that's, I think that's... Well, I think, no, I think it was, like, literally, like, she's saying the middle class are vampires going after the rich. That is the reading that, like, if you go on letterbox, that people are actually believing. It's less that she's not saying, eat the rich.

It's more that she's saying, allegedly, in this reading. That she's making the rich. The real enemy is... The real enemy is the middle class, which, like, I have a hard time believing that was her intention. I think there's some hopscotching to get to that point and, like, just selective, uh, selective narrative threads being pulled together that the movie doesn't necessarily uphold. And again, like, I don't think that this is a movie for posers. I think this is a movie for Tumblr girls. Like, Emerald Finale is like a Tumblr girl. And I mean that complimentary.

Like this movie, I think people, oh, I think people are like thrusting stuff upon this movie. That is not what the movie is. I think the movie is meant to be more of a good time than anything. And I think if this movie isn't released an award season, like it maybe shouldn't be, this movie could be accepted for what I kind of perceive. And I think there it runs into the economics of the industry where if you're not going to release this movie through the first. festivals, like, how is this movie supposed to make any money? And ultimately, it didn't anyway, so. But I think that Joe's right and that people are really angry about promising young woman. Like, most of the, most of the people who hated this movie were angry about promising

young woman, which is a movie that does have more intention and a message behind it. And is something I think also, you know, is playing in the genre of the rape revenge movie, but then holds its punches in a lot of ways and ends, you know, an unsatisfying way for people. And so they're taking that feeling that they were left with and that movie being so celebrated and then kind of bringing it to Saltburn, which I think has so much less on its mind. And also, like, I think it's ultimately to me, I don't know, it like succeeds more at what it wants to do, which is like be a sexy fun time versus promising a woman, which is, you know, a little bit more of a feminist text or intended as such.

Not to, not to fully open a second can of worms. So I'm going to, like, slightly open it. I'm going to slam a chat. I also feel like the ending of promising young woman, to me, could be, I think that, I think the dissatisfaction of the ending of promising young woman is maybe, to use a phrase, I feel like, is overused, a feature, not a bug. Like, I do feel like that there is, that the fact that the ending of promising young women is, is, is a parric victory, is part of the, you know, the point of it. And I think... Right, because promising young woman tricks you into thinking it's a rape revenge movie,

but really what it is is a death wish movie. Well, and I... And maybe the thing is that it, for Oscar purposes, got sold as a rape revenge movie and as a sort of like, fuck yeah, you know, triumph kind of a thing, which is not, you know... That's fine.

If, you know, if you want to take issue with that, I think that's fine. I don't know. I'm... I also think that that movie, like, and I don't mean this in a pejorative sense, and I don't, like, you know, I don't want to, like, get this to be misinterpreted. But I think that that movie is just kind of like a tantrum movie. Like, it's just kind of getting its rage and anger out there, not necessarily with as much of an intended purpose. I don't think Salt Burn's an angry movie, which is maybe why I...

I also don't think it's an issue movie, you know. I think this is a comedy first ahead of anything. Right. And I do feel like then if people drew that line, if they said, well, promising young woman was, you know, the movie that was going to stick it to men about rape culture. Then Saltburn must be a movie where Emerald Fennell has a lot to say about class. And it's like, maybe she's just sort of playing in the sandbox of, you know, class distinction and class envy

in a way that just ultimately tells this slutty tale of Machiavellian vengeance. And like, if you want to tell me a slutty tale of Machiavellian vengeance and have Barry Keoghan and Jacob Allorty looking the way they do in this movie, then like, yeah, I'm fine with that. Like, I'm not going to tell that. I also feel like it's weird to say that rich people in this movie are sympathetic. I think that's just...

They're not. They're extremely not. Rosamine Pike is just so fucking charming that you're like, yeah, I want to hang out with her and... Yeah. But she's still awful. Like, she's awful. Right. She's closer to a real housewife than she is to some victim.

Right. Even Felix, who is the closest to a sympathetic character in this movie, is still at least somebody who you look at and just be like, you are never going to, like, actually be a fully, not functioning person, but like, you are all. always going to be snake bit by the fact that you have this wealth and, like, morally snake bit, like, emotionally, you know, morally snake bit by this idea that, like, with the snap of a finger, you can just be like, well, I don't think my dad should be giving you money or you're giving you and your mother money every month. You know what I mean? And you can just so easily fall back into the cocoon of this wealth. Right. Because Felix has, like, he's kind of misguided, but still good intentions sometimes, like how he wants to take Oliver to reunite with his mother. He's very,

He's very sheer and clueless. He's very like, he's very like the popular kid who believes that she's, like, he's doing good by taking the unpopular kid under his wing. But actually, like, you know. Oh, I just thought you meant they both drive jeeps. You know what? And they both drive on the wrong side of the road by the way I see it. But I think that it's like he, a lot of what he's, you know, I think Oliver kind of calls him out on this is like he likes Oliver because Oliver is like mirroring to him what he wants. he's also letting him be someone who pays for things and takes care of him and, like, you know,

lets him have the women he casts off. And, like, that's sort of him feeling generous, but actually, you know, he does kind of suck. They all kind of suck. There's no one in this movie that's actually truly sympathetic except maybe Carrie Mulligan. And even then, I understand that it's. I think best performance in the movie. She's phenomenal. I think you can, I think it's pretty unambiguous that Felix is the best person in the movie.

I do feel like you kind of have to Galaxy brain it a little bit to like make him truly like not you know to make him a bad person I think she brings him compromised. He's like fatally compromised.

Well I think that that's why they have we have the scene with Farley where you know the movie like brings up race once and then kind of I don't think that she has a ton to say about it but I do think it's designed to kind of yeah show his privilege obvious. He's flawed. He's imperfect. He's privileged. He ultimately

there is a level of sort of empathy in which he has been bred out of him, you know what I mean, so to speak? And to me, that's not, I don't necessarily need to take a moral whacking stick to that. You know what I mean? I ultimately can just sort of take that as it is. And when everybody's so on Front Street shitty in this movie? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that

the point here is that the idea that like the rich people represented is like being ultimately good and the villain is the, you know, the middle class, like, you know, striver who destroys them. I think that is like a really bizarre reading given who these people are. But don't we in the audience also kind of root for them to be destroyed?

Of course they do. Like, people are acting like, people don't, like, root for anti-heroes all the time. Like, what the fuck are we talking about? Like, I just, also, like, not for nothing, but, like, nobody with a butt that looks like that could be truly evil. And that I'm going to stand by that. I actually think that that is something you should rid out of your mind because a truly evil person is going to do a number on you one day. Well, God willing. God willing, and the creek

don't rise. So, yeah. I also have to loop back under contractual obligation. The only good person in this movie is Oliver's mother, played by Mikely regular Dorothy Atkinson. I was going to say, is she a Mikely person? Because she has the vibe of a Mikely for sure. That's a Mikely house, if I've ever seen one. She's excellent. That's the most villainous that I feel Oliver is in this movie is when he's not kind to his nice mother

who's done nothing wrong. And who tells him to fucking take a pill and fucking chill out? Felix. Yeah. The true hero of the story. I mean, he's not a hero of the story.

I'm joking. Oh, God. No, no, Joe. You need to keep your allegiance is strong. The true hero of the story. This story is Oliver's butt. Thank you. Here it is.

Thank you. All right. Now that we've gone through and talked about the plot of this movie, our work here is done. Goodbye, listener. Chris, why don't you tell the listeners why they should be subscribing to our Patreon? And then we'll have Lewis give the plot description of the movie, which we've just untangled. There's more to untangle. We'll talk.

Yeah. Oh, there's plenty to untangle. Uh, listener, we have a Patreon. It's called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. For $5 a month, you can go on over, and we got a whole lot of bonus content waiting for you. Ugh. Uh, bonus content? You said the C word?

Yeah. Clink, clink. Two coins in the, in the C jar. I'm mad, but I'm just going to move on. Listener, what are you going to get for $5 a month? Well, for starters, on the first Friday. every month, you're going to get an episode we call exceptions. What are exceptions, you ask?

These are movies that fit that this had Oscar pros rubric of great expectations and disappointing results, but still manage to score an Oscar nomination or two. What have we been doing, Joe, over on turbulent brilliance most recently? We had an exception on Phantom of the Opera with our friend Natalie Walker. Still not over it. It's a time. It's a time. But also, there's a whole slew, a year and a half.

almost two years worth of exceptions for movies like House of Gucci, The Lovely Bones, Madonna's W.E., Vanilla Sky, My Best Friend's Wedding. We've also had guest episodes with Jorge Molina on Knives Out, Katie Rich on Australia. Uh, we've even done Barbara with the Mir has two faces. Then on the third Friday of every month, you're going to get an excursion episode. These are deep dives, and to Oscar Ephemer, we love to obsess about, things like Entertainment Weekly Fall movie previews. We've recapped old award shows from the 90s and 2000s. We just most recently had our superlatives episode. This is like kind of our version of an award show every year. Time to the Oscars where our listeners pick a best picture ballot and then we pick our choices for all of the weird random categories that happen throughout the season.

Like best movies for grownups, blah, blah, blah. Joe, what other categories are we? we doing? Oh, God, the Freedom of Expression Award. We're going to do the best kiss. The Cam Prize of the Youth. Most desirable male, most desirable female. What else are we going to throw in there? Are we doing most desirables this year? They change every year. I've just decided. I've just decided. You know what? If we want to do most desirable person and again, give that two awards, I'm fine with that. I'm going to sneak something in like Santa. Crampus. So, listener, go sign up to this. This had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Indeed. All right.

Lewis, I'm going to give the particulars of this movie and then I'm going to fire up the old stop. Okay, I'm already stressed out about this, but yeah, go ahead. You'll be fine. The last time Chris or I nailed it in 60 seconds was the first Obama administration. The problem is that I naturally speak fast. So then I like, when I write these, I try to go really, really fast and then it's unintelligible. So I'd have to slow down. I hear you.

I have, you know, there's a war inside my head. But yeah, go ahead. I'll be ready. Inside you are two wolves and they're both speaking very quickly. Yes, I understand. Okay. We're talking about the 2023 film Saltburn, written and directed by Emerald Fennell. Have we decided if it's Fennell or Fennell?

I think it's Fennell. I've been going with Fennell. I've heard some people say Fennell, but, you know. It's spelled differently in Fennell, so it has an extra out. It is spelled. All right, thank you. All right. Starring.

And here's a name. I've, I've, I've literally heard Barry's surname pronounced differently two or three times by people who've been like, this, I know for sure is how you really pronounce it. Like, this is, uh, this is the definitive. So you know what? I'm just going to say Barry Keoghan and we're going to. I think it's probably Keegan or something like that, given that I used to think so.

I think we'd accept it as a, as an American culture to say Keogan. But I've also heard people say, They key in like that. Have you seen Irish names? Like they're completely... I have them in my family. Like, I am deeply, deeply accustomed and yet mystified by all of them. So yes.

Jacob Allorty, Rosamond Pike, Richard Entertainment Grant, Allison Oliver, that's Chris's joke. I can't allow. It's Richard Entertainment Grant. Allison Oliver, Archie Medeque, Carrie Mulligan, the God. Distributed by Amazon MGM Studios, it premiered in limited release on November 17th, 2003, after playing the Telluride and Toronto film festivals. No, Telluride in London. Yes, it didn't play Toronto. That's right.

It would have gone over much better if it did. Well, yes. Opened in limited release, as I said, on November 17th, 20203, finished far, far behind the opening weekend. of The Hunger Games, The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, a movie we all remember incredibly well, lo this 14 months later. Trolls band together, Thanksgiving, a movie that I saw recently and was pretty okay.

The Marvels in its second week of being a disaster, Five Nights at Freddy's in its fourth week of being a surprise hit and me being like, it was a what thing that people were psyched about? that was what it was a tic-tock thing was a video game it was a thing that was none of my business speaking of charles entertainment cheese it is a trucky cheese inspired right right right right um one of these days i'll see it except for the fact that like the reviews were so bad the reviews were really really bad i was going to see it

i see every horror movie except when they are two hours long and like not even rated r i'm like absolutely not did i slight thanksgiving unnecessarily louis i feel i i love thanksgiving but also I just love that there was like an actual slasher that happened amid all the other nonsense. I was happy with all of that. I just wanted, like, now I want one to be better. Thanksgiving, too. Yeah. Listen, Smile 2 ended up being like 70% better than Smile 1.

So, like, I absolutely am leaving room for the fact that Thanksgiving 2 will be better. All right, Lewis, I got my stopwatch ready. Are you ready to give the saltburn? Okay, but you're going to do it anyway, starting now. The year is 2006. and Oliver quick is a student at Oxford who does not fit in with his posh surroundings. He ends up befriending Felix, played by his stunning Jacob Allorty, mostly by doing favors for him, sadly not sexual, and by acting poor.

Oliver confides in Felix about his parents' substance abuse issues, and when he shares that his father has died, Felix feels so bad that he invites Oliver to spend the summer at Saltburn, his family's country estate. Oliver doesn't really fit in there either, but Sir James and Lady Elspeth, played by Richard D. Grant, Rosamond Pike, are at least more welcoming than the butler. Felix's sister, Venetia, is horny and Moody, and Cousin Farley, Oliver's Oxford nemesis, is openly hostile. Oliver loves Felix but is not in love with him, so he watches Felix jerk off and then drinks his cummy bathwater.

He also seduces Benicia into menstrual-blood-drench kind oflingus, then jerks off Farley while asserting his dominance. On Oliver's birthday, Felix surprises him with a trip to see Oliver's parents, who turn out to be normal middle-class people who are both alive. Felix is horrified and tells Oliver he should leave Solfern after his big birthday party. At the party, Oliver tries to get him to reconsider and possibly make out, but Felix rejects him and then dies mysteriously. Oliver gets Farley kicked out of Sulphurn, then Benicia kills herself and James pays off Oliver so that he'll finally leave. 16 years later, Oliver and Elspeth reconnect and he returns to Salt Burn where she becomes terminally ill.

Oliver confesses to being responsible for everything bad that has happened in the movie, which is very obvious, which treated as a revelation, then murders Elzabeth and inherit Salt Burn so we can dance around naked and hang massive Irish Dong the end. 15 seconds over and fully worth every second.

Okay, Chris, what's your problem with Sophia Lus Bexter? Okay, no. First of all, it's kind of objectively great because, like, if nothing else, it made that song into the pop hit that it should have always been. Everybody say thank you Emerald for that

because. Yes. Yeah. I agree. However, lyrically, textual, the text of the song the, like, gonna burn this house down. That's how we feel in the audience, but like,

it further muddies, like, are we supposed to be cheering for Oliver? I don't kind of understand. I've, I find it's a perfect song for the culture, but it is a bad song for Oliver. And it's such like his moment. Here's what I'll say. And I may be giving Emerald's maybe a little bit too much credit, but like, as gay people, we get to read into things. We've been doing their whole lives. I think every time you see, because you see it in a few times when they're when they're at school during Oliver's party, these scenes of like everybody dancing. And they're dancing to this sort of like very crows. very sort of like stylish club music or whatever and I think to do murder on the dance floor

it's a little out of time it's a little sort of um not necessarily normie but sort of normie right it's a little it's gay only gay people know about that song it's queer but like in but in england it's it's a little mainstream right it's a little like you know it's not it's not super stylish. It's just kind of, it's like, I'm trying to think of like, well, they do pop music better over Yeah, they do, but it would be like if it would do like Paula Abdul straight up now tell me

or something like that, you know what I mean? And it's just like, cold-hearted snake would have been a good ending song. Sure. Well, then it's hanging Irish song once again. Oh, two on the nose. I think, but I think she's going for, I think she's a literal, she's very literal, and I think the song has

murder in the title and the fact that it says Yeah, it's probably true. I think it's like that was the set of the thought that went into it in my opinion because I feel like there is something... That's probably true. She's just very literal. I was thinking about this. I know I have brought up menstrual blood cuddling is twice now but I was thinking about how like...

Go for the hat trick. In interviews she was like, you know, this is really a vampire movie and I forgot that in that scene he's like, I'm vampire and it's like, there's just an element of like very literal everything that I easily find annoying and that I'm also like... I do think there's a part of her that is a

product of being very online and dealing with people who are annoying online and I think that kind of goes into the fact that things are over-explained because everyone's dumb and like I almost feel like you know, part of it's too bad

because the imagery in this movie is on point. Totally. But as the reception to this movie points out, people will think whatever the fuck they want to think even if you spell it out for it. I feel like I was reading someone's letterbox review or they were complaining about the end of this movie and then saying, am I,

it's just partially my fault for like writing those ending Explain Post for SEO and it's like kind of I mean like this is a cultural it's not your fault I mean I and we've all do it no it's that person's fault okay how about it's Google's fault for making our life's hell um but I think that there is an element of this that feels like it's trying to preemptively responds to some confusion or complaints or whatever and maybe it ends up mudding things further as we've all said but I feel like I think she was very aware of all the pushback she got for her for her first movie and she's like I'm going to make things a little bit more And she makes a lot of literal choices in this movie, you know, throughout the movie that I think speak to that.

And I think ended up making, you know, those are the things about the movie I like less. He doesn't, if he doesn't say the vampire thing, but you still get the shot of him submerged in the bathtub with his bloody chin. Yeah. Like that's a good shot. It's a great shot. No, I think I. And it's, and it says what that line in the script says without needing to say. And also, as I said before, I do love menstrual blood.

movies. I do think it's something that Americans shy away from. I really do. Like I, when I, when I, when I used to have, I used to have a blog called Thorne See Me Romance where I would like watch Braylop movies and like, screenshot them and like write about them. Because I would, there was something incredible like that that I could find, you know, in American movies. And I feel like, you know, a way back machine the fuck I think I think it's. I think it still exists. When I log into WordPress, like I still have that blog as one of my WordPress blog, even though I have not. Awesome. Objectively. The writing, I'm sure, is terrible. But the point is, like, I feel like Americans are so squeamish about that in particular. Like, we don't really, we don't include menstrual blood in movies. And we don't include a lot of common movies either. But, like, that feels a little bit less scandalous to me. And maybe scandalous is the wrong word.

But, like, it feels a little bit less potentially objectionable to an American audience than, like, eating someone out when she's on her period. Well, and Visible Come in movies was a trend in 2023 because you also had all of us strangers. Mothering Sunday. Did anybody else see Mothering Sunday? I didn't, but is there, okay, so there's the trend. A movie where Glenda Jackson, May She Rest, has a solo screen card in that movie. And I swear to you, Ejaculate has more running time in that movie than Glenda Jackson does. like is it Jack Loudon who's our who's the oh it's Jack O'Connor baby that was that I was on the

I feel I mean we knew from God's own country but Josh O'Connell yeah Josh O'Connor I feel like I was originally going to I did prepare a game for today and originally I was going to do something cum base and I couldn't come up with enough movies with cum shots in them I was like happiness has a notable one like which is upsetting right right right I couldn't think of that movie is like queer Like, there aren't, there aren't that many, you know, or they, well, this is what goes to our thing that we, we were talking about Lewis, where it's just like, you know, act blase about it if you want. But, like, if you, if you see the bathtub scene where he's slurping come out of the drain and you're, like, seen it, you've maybe just, like, watched the porn tab in your, in your, in your Twitter, you know, a app too many times. Or you, or to be more generous, you've watched a lot of Braylott movies or, or foreign films and you're like, and you're, I. We have established that I am not in the mood to be generous to people today.

I just want to be crystal clear that the bathtub scene is not gross because there's come. It's because he's licking a century-old bath tank. I'm going to throw out the notion here that it's not necessarily gross. No, no, no. Someone at some point had the plague in that building. No, I was watching this and I was like. Like, I think the bathtub scene is hot until he tongues the drain. And I'm like, that is gross because that's hotter.

That is. It's gross, but it's hotter. But drinking the bathwater doesn't bother me at all. And I feel like people who acted like that was weird. I'm like, you've all wanted to drink some man's bathwater. Like, do not pretend you have not wanted to drink some man's bathwater. Or you're incredibly straight. I mean, it would be a much hotter scene if Felix was like, you're going to lick the drain.

I'm going to tell you. Sure. But that's like, that's a movie that's a different movie. That's a different movie. That again, that's a different movie. Maybe another movie, but it's a different movie. Maybe it's, that's baby boy. I do think the principles in this movie acting wise are all quite good.

I think I really, I really like Barry Keogan. Emerald Fennell talked about casting him from seeing him in killing of a sacred deer that seems about right. that seems about, like, you know, the through line. She saw him eating spaghetti and was like, I wish that were, like, someone's menstrual blood. We're going to do the clink, clink coins, but for Lewis saying menstrual blood, it's going to be fantastic. He's sorry to have a talented person.

I think Jacob Allorty, for a movie that, like, mostly casts him to be an object, is also quite good in sort of knowing that and knowing he's, like, physically, I think he's an incredible sort of he works he works posture incredibly well he does that sort of you know he's trying to pretend like he's not six nine it's cat it's this sort of like like predatory casualness right where it's just like um it's the kind of person where you just sort of look like and like you know exactly what you're doing our our friend and former and future guest raksana hadati wrote on vulture uh at the time uh on a whole article uh with the title saltburn is nothing without Jacob Alluredy's little eyebrow stud, which could not be more accurate.

I was like, why this movie said in 2006, and I'm like, oh, right, it's for the eyebrow stud and for MGMT, and that's enough because I feel like, that's enough. That's enough. But I would put up with the acronisms. I think Jacob of Lordy, like, really, like, this is the movie that I was like, I get it now. And it's partly because of his cute little posh English accent, which is not his, you know, he's Australian. Right. He's Australian. And he looks like, I didn't realize it until this time, he looks a little bit like, and Nightly in Love, actually, in the early scenes, watch it again with her in mind, and there's something about him that really gives me to cure a nightly.

And I completely... It's the way the wind blows through his bangs. It's something. It's like the, it's like he's like slightly weird teeth also. Oh, his hair, his hair is the exact perfect amount of like rumpled. It's, but like, truly, I think I've maybe talked about this. I get, I don't, I literally thought the other day, like, Joe, why do you always have to like point out the fact that you've told a story?

on the podcast before. And I think it's because I'm so preemptively worried that somebody's going to be like, yeah, we know. Like, you know what? You know what? They will unless you say

that you're telling the story again. If they're not complaining about me thirsting over Bob Hoskins, yeah, they're not going to do that to you, Joe. But so when I was, I took a college course, I can't remember what year of, of university,

of, of undergrad. And I sat right in that to a boy with an eyebrow piercing, very, very similar to this. And I had the exact, like, I had the exact same reaction of just, like, it completely threw me. All I could pay attention to at all times was his eyebrow stud. I literally, like, wrote full, like, biographies in my mind about just, like, what is this say about this person? Does he, does it mean it's bisexual?

Does he, you know, he also had, like, and then you systematically killed his entire family. He also had, like, red streaks in his hair. So I'm just like, oh, this is like something. And then the one morning before class, because we sort of, you know, we were like in class friendly, you know, that level of just like, where you're just like you sit next to each other. You chat during class, but you don't really like become like friends outside of class. And the one morning he told me that he had just had sex with his girlfriend in his car before class. And I was like, well, fuck. You know what I mean?

Just like. Did you tell him some of that? Well, we were that close, Chris. We shared our secrets. I told him about not being able to get the homework done in time, and he told me about fucking his girlfriend in the car. So, you know, you give and you take and whatever. But anyway, it's literally, you just, the things that that communicates, I also have always

said that my one regret, as if I have but one regret, one of my regrets, because I've never had a piercing, and I've never had a tattoo, is that I never got an eyebrow piercing when I was still young enough to be able to pull off an eyebrow piercing because I still like... You should get a tattoo of an eyebrow ring. I have to drop something in the chat really quickly. Oh, okay. Is this you with an eyebrow ring? If it's not, I'm going to be very upset.

You definitely had an eyebrow ring. Yeah, it's, it's, this is me at 20... Incredible. Two? Incredible. Oh, yeah. I've read, which I had for like many years. I got that when I was in college and I had it for like a little bit too long.

long, and then I, like, couldn't take it out myself. So I'd just, like, go to the doctor. Sisters, that's a razor three. Yes, yes, that is a razor. See, so I would have been obsessed with you as well, Lewis. I was very, it was college. I had to look at the glasses. Anyway, it was a different time.

The point is I, I, I, I, they're very close to the glasses that I have right now. They're very, you know, you know what was like a great sign of people being, like, anti-emmero finel for no real reason, not for no reason, but like, taking that to the next level is when everyone was trying to say that she got the year wrong at the beginning. Oh, I was one of those people, but I was having fun of that. But you weren't saying like she, people were like this idiot like, class of 2006, which is like what in the UK, they go by the first, you know,

which I didn't, I did not know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, but did throw me. And also the fact that there was, I was in long arguments with about like, whether they were a rich enough family to get an early cut of super bad. to watch with the family and whatever. And I was like, the one that I think we all really objected to was Apple Bottom, was whatever, get low. Well, there is that detail that's very easy to overlook, but Elspeth is part of the WGA, so she is a screener.

She's a, she's a, she's a, she's a producer's guild member. Yeah. So, yeah. What's Carrie Mulligan's character's name? Pamela. Every single time, Rosamond Pike says Pamela. anything, anything that follows it is screaming. I did, I didn't, I think about Pamela is so funny.

I felt bad that I like didn't include her in the, in the, uh, in the, uh, the little, she's such a side track, though. I was trying to, like, include all of the sexual encounters because I think that they're all special and then they're important to me personally. Um, I think the theme with Farley is like very hot and I feel. Oh, very. Uh, I think Farley is, you know what's hotter though? It's hotter than the actual sex scene is the scene where they're on the couch, sort of like

talking to each other with their faces, like, super, super close to each other? I just, yeah, like, they could make out at any minute. Yes. I do think that Farley is a bit of a mess of a character, and I think that once she's, like, we're going to remind, the racial stuff I just think is very clumsy, and I'm not, like, super shocked given, you know, I think that there are, there are valid takes about her background and what that, you know, whatever. But I, I think he's, like, really interesting. I just feel like, yeah, it's, it's weird. There's something weird there, and I feel like she kind of gets at it and then drops it because it's not something she really wants to explore, or that I think the movie really needs her to explore, but it's off a little bit. I think for a movie in which the main character is trying to dom from a bottom position, I think it's interesting to have another character who is also trying to, like, socially top him at all times, you know what I mean? And, like, if this is a sort of a power struggle, like, I think Farley constantly being there to be like, they will never accept you. Like, you will never have this.

You do not, you are not suited to this. Well, also, I think it's helpful that we have a character who is gay and that Felix is like, this is my gay cousin who has a lot of sex. And, like, because it's that thing where, like, a straight guy says that to you. And you're like, wait, you're like really chill about this, especially, you know, 20 years ago where you're like, you seem really open-minded to be. sharing to me, how much are you? Yes. That's the thing I think the movie does really well. And maybe I'm just like, again,

you know, just falling into a trap or whatever. But like, I do feel like the movie is really literate and really well observed about the ways in which a character like Felix will just like

do a fucking number on you. Even if you are not necessarily Tom Ripley, right? Even if you are not necessarily you know, setting out from the break to take over the saltburn. The character, sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, like, it's that thing of, like, when he's, like, on the floor of his room, shirtless, talking about how hot it is, and you're like, absolutely. It's the thing of, like, you're like, oh, he's so hot and dumb.

He doesn't realize, like, what he's doing. It's like, no, he actually does realize what he's doing. He has no intention of actually following through on this, but I think all the attention he gets is a positive for him. So he's just kind of like... Yes. Going where the wind blows in that way without ever actually, you know, being interested in Oliver sexually.

And then I think the movie also understands what a sort of... If this is a movie about the... The social power dynamics of attraction, then the scene where the sort of the increasing hotness of Oliver becomes text rather than just sort of like Purian interest, where

you know, they're all sort of naked in the fields or whatever and then outwalks Oliver and again Farley it's the first time that Farley finds anything, you know, likable about Oliver is that he's got a big dick or whatever and it's just like yeah, like these are

ultimately, this is the currency with which we're working with. When every, when wealth is, you know, a non-factor, which it is among Felix and and, you know, whatever, his family, that it's like, oh, how can I impress these people with money? And it's just like, oh, biology.

Surprise, surprise, like, this fucking nerd is also, like, insanely hot. So that's always a question for me. It's like Emerald writes this part with him and mine, basically. Does she have a conversation? Canonically, your character has to be pretty hung. So, like, I just want to know, I just want to know how that conversation plays out. I also, like, I think it's really... Was there ever talk that this was ultimately a prosthetic?

Yeah. Because I know that there's all... That's the other thing is, like, I do have a friend who's an actor who insists that, like, every single dick you see in a movie is not real, which, like, I want to believe. I am very, I am the conspiracy theorist that Ben Afflex, Dick, and Gone Girl is, is, like, David Fincher VFX that you don't even realize the CTI. I mean, but we, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, With this particular movie and that particular scene, if it is done in post, it's very impressive. Or if it's a prosthetic, it's very impressive. I don't mean the size of it.

I mean how seamless it is. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. It's a, it's a funny thing, right? Where it's just like we are so demanding of authenticity in all of these things, right? We are so demanding that these actors go through these regiments to get shape and whatever, and yet, the second we see a big dick on screen, we're all just like fake.

Well, that was, that response was less annoying to me than the porn brains people on Twitter who were like, it's not even big. And you're like, what is your, what is your like conception of a flas and penis? Because I feel like you have a skewed perspective. If you see something you're like small, like I feel like maybe you are looking at too much porn. Have you ever seen that chart that's been going around recently, especially since the election where it's like that not that no it's it's not a dick chart i'm drawing a comparison um

about the um percentages of people that people think there are in the country versus what there are everybody thinks there's like 13 percent transgender people and it's like you know half percent or whatever um and everybody sort of assumes that there's more of everybody every type of person uh in in the country and i do feel like definitely porn. And it also feels like the dicks that you're seeing are the dicks that belong to people who wants you to six who wants you to see their dicks. It's self-selecting, honey.

There we go. There we go. Have to defend it. Thank you. Like, let's let's be, let's have, let's give something a second thought here. Let's actually like to take a home person. I just have to take it back a little bit to the reveal that Oliver is a gifted young man. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I find the idea, I, I find the idea, I, I find it, I find it intangible. I, I, my, I, my snapchat stories are already full of people, like, removing ticks from their pets and whatever. I don't need to, I don't need to, I don't need to deal with the.

Alicia is laying face down in that grass completely. Yeah, I was thinking about ticks, but I think that's more of an American problem, but I did have that thought of. Do they not have ticks in England? I don't know if it's as much of a, it feels very, I don't know, it feels very appellation to me. Very New York offstate. I don't know. It doesn't feel like that just jabs you already in the legs. You don't want it jabbing you.

No, you're right. But also like, I think that is true, but also like, I think that is true, but also like, do you want to fuck mud? Like, I feel like there's a lot in this movie that feels like it would be less pleasant than it looks great aesthetically, perhaps, but I don't know that like... I agree with that, but I think... We got to talk about... We got to jump ahead and talk about the mud fucking since you brought it up.

But just to Chris's point really quickly, I think both of them would have nasty after effects, but I think Chris is right that in the moment even, sitting in the pokey, tall grass wouldn't be comfortable where it's like, I can understand the momentary appeal of fucking a muddy pile, whereas at least like, aesthetically, you're not getting poked and prodded. Fucking a money pile while you're uncircumcised.

Again, these are, we're getting into issues of like, we're getting into issues of what happens later versus he already has oral thrush from licking that drain. He has oral thrush. He has tetanus. He has dick and mouth disease.

He's on some sort of prescription for that already, so I feel like he's probably fine. But yeah. He's probably fine. I do think the mud fucking to me is like, I, it's fine. I don't know. That's maybe my least favorite. It was an improvisation reportedly.

I don't. Barry just came up with that. My favorite. I don't know. I believe that, to be honest. That shot is also so long. You could have taken that out of the movie and saved us five minutes. He gets naked.

He's like, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. We all remember the hit late 90s song by Chumbabamba. mud-fucking, where he goes down, but he goes down. So what I tell you that my game has a reference to tub-thumping in it? All right.

It's time then. It is time. That is no perfect, no more perfect segue. Lewis, hit us with this game. Okay. It's a very simple game. It's actually called tub-thumpers. Okay. I just wanted to look at some of the most iconic scenes of people taking baths and

movies. Oh, I love it. It's a very, it's very simple. So You'll get the name of an actor in a notable bathtub scene. You have to name the movie the scene is in. Sometimes the scenes include multiple actors in the tub, but you only get one name, especially if it's like the less famous name. Okay. If the actor is next to the tub, it does not count.

They have to be in the tub. Not necessarily water, but they have to be in the tub. Okay. Because they're, okay, you get it. If you name a movie that is not the one I'm thinking of or an actor, where the actor is also in a tub as determined by me, you still get points. Okay. So I might have to do a quick Google.

but you still get points. Okay. I like this. It's like you can challenge it like in Scrabble. Yes. Okay. You get the name and if you get it right, you get three points. If you get it right, you get a year.

And then you get two points if you had to get the year. And then after that, you get the director. And then if you get it after that, it's one point. All right. I will keep score. So I have a lot of these because I feel like most of them are really easy. And I feel like you will know them right away. Okay.

So. I'm excited. We'll see. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to start with Chris. Okay. There are two correct answers for this, and they're both on this. So really, whichever you give now will be determined in this one.

But the first one, the first one is Julia Roberts. Pretty woman. Great. Three points. Three points for Chris. Okay. All right. Joe, your first one is Jeff Bridges. Oh, the Big Lobowski.

And or the Marmot. Well, I have Big Lobowski. So. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, but I mean, he's in the tub, but also the fucking ferret that he calls him. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I was like, is there a movie? I get it now. Okay. Yeah. Maybe he has other tub scenes. I did my best to check, but, um, Chris, you get, they do get harder, by the way, just so you know that there is an increasing difficulty. Uh, Chris, Glenn Close. Um, fatal attraction.

Three points. Uh, Joe, Michelle Pfeiffer. Michelle Pfeiffer. bathtub scene I already want to steal it from you, bitch. Wait, wait, wait, no. Is there a bathtub scene at Batman Returns? Uh, uh, fabulous Baker Boys.

Do you want your year? You're going to get your year now. Oh, yeah, give me my year. Yeah, yeah. 2000. Oh, God. Of course, I totally forgot about this. What Lys Beneath.

Yeah, sure. Great movie. Two points, yes. Chris, Jude Law. Talon to Mr. Ripley. Three points. Some of these are very easy. Joe Minasuvari.

Oh, American Beauty. Three points. Chris, Kiki Dunst. Um, Marie and Twinnett. Yes, three points. Nice. I promise these will get a little bit harder, but I did more easy than hard ones.

Um, Joe, you have, um, Joan Allen. Oh, Pleasantville. Sure. Correct. And not the only masturbation scene that I cited. Excellent. Perfect. See, saltburn's not that scandalous. Joan Allen did it first. And then she was yanked in a bathtub. William Mason. She said a whole tree on five. That would lurched up that bathland.

Jeff Bridges. Oh, Jeff Daniels. Jeff Daniels. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Macy would never. Yeah, no. Chris. Heather Langan Camp? A nightmare on Amstreet. Correct for three points. Joe, Sally Hawkins. Sally Hawkins

in the shape of water. Yes, also masturbating, I believe. Oh, yeah. She starts that movie, Yankin in the bathtub. Yes, that's right. Okay, so three points there. Chris.

Natalie Portman. Oh, wait, shit. Um... Oh, Black Swan. Yes, three points. Um, okay. Joe. Michael Pitt.

Is, oh, what is it called? Fuck. Speaking of French movies with menstrual blood. Um, it's called the somethings. The, not the searchers. Not the searchers, honey. Um, Lewis knows what exactly what I'm thinking. Am I on the wrong track?

Am I? No. you're not the wrong track it's the the the fucking oh my god the problem is if i don't get this then i the year won't help me because i know what the movie is it's called the is it am i right that it begins with s yes no okay um the oh my god this is so frustrating it's michael pitt It's some French guy and it's some French girl. Some French, wow, okay. Our French listeners are not happy.

I'm not happy. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's fucking. Oh, oh, God. The, you're going to be so mad when, why? Nothing. Nothing. Oh, God. Um, the, the, the, I don't, I don't know, I don't know.

You have the French title, I'll give it to you and, and, if you. if you want to do the French one. It is a different title in Friends. Is it really? Oh, I don't even know that one at all. The, the, I keep wanting to say the gleaners, but it's not the gleaners. Oh, also in Italian is a different title,

and it does start with an ad's in Italian. Okay. All right, well, should we just skip that, and no points for that? Yeah. And I get a steal. We're not doing steals because there's... But say it anyway, because you know it.

You're thinking of the dreamers. I was thinking of the dreamers, yeah. I was thinking of Hedwig in the angry end. Which would also apply, but I was to see, I have the Dreamers down, but you are totally sure, but Headwick would also apply. The dreamer, see, I thought. He's jerking off in a bathtub in Headwig.

Yes, and then he is. Being jerked off at a bathtub. Well, he, I think he's, I think it's a little both. It's a better man situation. It starts as someone jerking off, and then it becomes a handjob. All right. Yes, I have the Dreamers, but I would have also accepted Headwig. I was just like, I cannot believe you dismissed Louis Garrell as some French guy.

Is that who? it is. It's Louis Garrell. Eva Green. Oh, my God. It is Ava Green. Totally right. And the French title is sorry, the Italian title is Isoniatory, which means the Dreamers. So there was an S there. Okay. We are back to Chris, Julia Roberts. Sleeping with the enemy. Correct. Nice.

Joe. Yeah. Al Pacino. Al Pacino in a bathtub is Scarface Yeah Okay These are like maybe going to get a little bit more difficult I hope Although we had a humorous moment So they weren't all easy

Yeah Yeah harder than any of the ones Chris has had to do so far Just for the record Chris you have Rock Hudson In many bathtubs Including Pillow talk I would have accepted many answers Um

Joe Jennifer Connolly Jennifer Connolly Probably not the Rocketeer We already did cut of the Rocketeer Jennifer Connolly in Requiem Yes Okay

Chris There may be multiple answers for this one too But I think there's one obvious one at least Natalie Wood Splendor in the Grass Yes Joe Eli Wallach

Well the holiday, of course, is an alternate guess. The R-rated cut of the holiday. Yes, the smut cut of the The true love story of that film. No, what's fucking Eli Wallach's hot movie? All the Eloy Wallach movie. Is it...

There's a little bathtub. seen in at least one of these films that he's... Is it baby doll? No. Okay. Your year is 1966. Ugh. What's the other...

Oh, God. I'm going to get this wrong, but it's like... Like the good, the bad, and the ugly, or something like that. That is correct. Is it correct? Okay, okay, good. for two points. Two points. Okay.

I did try to make these evenly slip between you two, and I feel like I've given Chris too many easy ones, so... No, it's fine, it's fine. They don't move them around. Well, that seems like too much work. Chris, Cameron Bright. Birth.

Yes. Joe, Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe. And I did check to see if she was in other bathtub scene. Well, this is the thing is. If Chris got this, it would have been a layup for Chris because Chris knows Marilyn Monroe movie's better than me.

I'm going to say the seven-year itch. Correct for three points. Hey, what a guess. Chris, Elizabeth Taylor. Ugh, the great. I'm wrapping up reading erotic, I'm wrapping up reading erotic vagrancy right now, too,

and like, it's changing my life. I think she was in a bat. She was often, he had a great bathtub in her home, so I feel like she's, she has a lot of, of, there's a lot of photos of her bathtub, but she wasn't in a film and at least one film. Butterfield 8, right?

No? What bathtub am I? I don't think so. Let me just double check. She's not in a bathtub and Caton Hotin roof. Well, hold on. You already, you, you, no. All right. Your year is 1963.

Oh, okay. Is this Cleopatra? Yes. Cleopatra exists out of time and space. For two points it is Cleopatra. Yeah, and it's like reading Erotic Vagorancy does not help you figure out when Cleopatra opened because it takes years. Yeah, what a journey. Joe, we've seen Phoenix.

Oh, is it? Um, to die for? No. The year will probably give it to you. It's 2023. Oh. Um, Napoleon? No.

The director is Ariaster. Oh, God. Of course, uh, Bo is afraid. He's in a bathtub. There's just no water. For one point. Yeah. He's a whole bathtub.

Yeah. Yeah, you're totally right. I was too, I was too hasty with that. I should have, I should have thought. Okay. Here's where I feel like you might actually. actually not get some of these. Although, we'll see.

Chris, you have Will Smith. Wild Wild West. He's in a giant bathtub. I have to give you that. You see his balls in that movie. Can we, can we, I will give you that three points. But I do want to talk about the other Will Smith team that I was thinking of in a bathtub that has scarred me since 2008. If anyone can think of what movie that is.

Is he in a bathtub in six degrees of separation? I don't think. 2008, that's, oh, it's. seven pounds. Oh, since 2008. Oh, God, of course, the jellyfish. He killed himself with a box jellyfish in the bathtub. With a jellyfish, yeah.

We did that years and years ago on this podcast. An episode we've done, and I'm like, what about the movie where you see his balls? No, I mean, that's a better answer anyway. Um, okay. Joe, Victoria Arbriel. Oh, honey. I don't, I don't, I don't know who that is. Um, give me a year.

Chris, do you know who that is? She, um, which Hamadovar is this? Well, well, now you, Chris has given you a hint if you want to go for it. Yeah, give me the year now. Yeah, give me the year. 89. Is this women on the verge of a nervous breakdown?

It is not. I'll give you one. The director is Pedro Alamovaar. Oh, wow. Okay. Is it time me up, time me down? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. For one point. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is a movie that I don't know. So we'll see. you do um oh she's also yanking in that bathtub he's probably yanking that up okay uh chris i have for you

linda linda fjortino oh um linda fjornino this is not less seduction is it jade it is not jade um the year is 1988. Oh. I maybe don't know what this is. Who's the director? The director is, can we taps open, Alan Rudolph. Oh, this is an Alan Rudolph film in 88. I can't put those two together.

What's funny is when I did the Mortal Thoughts episode of Demiq. I literally like paged through Alan Rudolph's homography and now I can't realize I don't know this movie at all but it's a notable scene that was on many lists

of notable bathtub scenes I got to call it once you say the title I'll know I'll recognize the time it's the moderns yeah and she's getting her armpit shaves

in the bathtub now this is scandalous now this is hot I've ever yeah Keith Caradine Wallace Sean yeah Keith Caradine's in like all of Alan Rudolph's

movie. God bless. Okay, Joe. Yes. Your last one, I don't think points wise you can win, but actually maybe you can spiritually if you have one. Which you won't. Um, Leah Belldam. How do we spell?

Bell Dam, B-E-L-D-A-M. Leah Bell-D-D-A-M. Yeah, I'm going to need a year. The year is 1980. Oh, what's like a scandalously smutty movie from 1980. I think you're on the wrong track. Okay.

What's a conspicuously clean movie from 1980? It's got to be like a famous in a bathtub character, but not like... If I give you the director, you'll get it, but I want to see if you can get it with the... Is it Arthur? It is not Arthur. Your director is Stanley Kubrick. Oh, 1980 Stanley Kubrick is the shiny... Oh, it's the woman.

woman in the bathtub in the shiny. Those two women. She's the old woman under the world. I should have known that you'd pull out a horror thing at the end of Lewis. I was all ready for like Marisa Barrison for Barry Lidgeta, but not for the shiny. Yes, she is the old woman and she does not have a Wikipedia entry,

but she does have a German one, so she must have done a little work there. Uh-huh. Makes sense. It's great game. She is also masturbating in that bathroom. Forgive me. Green, forgive me Louis Gerell, forgive me, France. So what was the final points total? I have Chris with 510, 15, 20, 25, 34, and I have 510, 15, 20, 25, 28. So Chris kicked my ass.

Well, I'm really impressed by the Will Smith one because I completely... Yeah, that's a very good one. I thought that seven pounds would be a harder pull because that movie does not exist, except that's the scene that I think about all the time. That's the scene. That's the scene you got to keep thinking of. Of all of the suicides on film, the box. That's your next game. That's your next game is suicides on film.

It's a really fun one to do. Anyway, thank you for playing. Sort of pivoting off of that. Thank you for bringing us a game. Thank you for bringing us a game. We always love it when our guests bring a game. Pivoting off of that, one of the things, if I am going to sort of bring some criticisms here, I do feel like the way that Felix is killed off is done a little too vaguely for

because ultimately what do we get out of it? You mean as how it's done? Yeah, yes. I think I got it more this time than the first time I saw this movie. Because sort of me too, except for the fact that like, even still as it's going on, I'm like, you still feel like did he go back and like hit him over the head with a blood object? You don't like, when they find the body, there's no indication of like. No, he, I thought he poisoned the line. He put something in his drink.

He put something in his drink. Right. But what I'm saying is you don't find. that out until the reveal. Well, thank God for that a reveal then. Right. That's the only thing you find out in the reveal that I actually like didn't really know the specifics of. I assumed that he killed him. I just didn't know. I assumed that he like went back and like conced him over the head with a wine bottle or something like.

You know what this reminds me of that's actually poisoning the wine. Reveal montage is wild things when you see how they pull that off. Like there is a version of like a fun reveal like this where I think this sort of played more of like how he did it unless that he did it. I think it would actually work a lot better because there are things here. I mean, some of it's kind of dumb. It's like he put a razor next to Venetia and she was already going to kill herself so she just used the razor.

Like, he didn't actually kill her, did he? I mean, that's that part's like, she killed herself. Also, it's a little bit, it's like, that's not really a great plan. That's kind of like, congratulations. Is it not a more fun? Is it not a more fun and diabolical reveal if he ultimately reveals it to the butler

instead of to, you know, quadriplegic on a ventilator, Rosamund Pike. Because, like, ultimately, the butler's the one who was on to him the whole time, right? If only didn't like him. I guess, yeah, I mean, I just didn't like him. I think it's a more generous read to think that he's onto him and not that he's just, like, in his own way, classist.

And this is, like, I think that I like you're like, this guy is coming to, like, take their money versus, like. I do feel like as a person who's been there summer in and summer out. We do get the, we do, we are informed at some point that, like, there's, there are summer friends who Felix brings home kind of on the rag. Right. And so I imagine that he's some are my trend. Summer in and summer out. But I, but I think that there's something so, I was, I was, I was kind of like marveling at how little they do to actually make Oliver seem like he's out of place. Like, his big faux paw at breakfast that he asked to be served, not

realizing that you have to get your breakfast on the side table, but they, I just, are made to order, like, that's like, like, that's treated just kind of, like, moment of like, oh, my God, I don't fit in here. It's like, is that really a big deal? Like, I don't think, right. I don't think anyone, except the butler who's a dick, like, clock that. That's true. Decent point. But I do feel like this butler's probably like seen a lot of people come and go, seen a lot of people try and glom on to this family's wealth. And he is sort of less you know, less impressed. As somebody who has to be proximate to this wealth,

but never, you know, a beneficiary of it, he, I imagine, would not have a very high opinion of people trying to social climb their way into. Yeah, I just sort of meant in a larger sense. I feel like it's a lot of, like, the whole idea that like Oliver is kind of awkward and out of place at Oxford and Saltburn, I think is a lot,

it's a little bit more telling than showing because I, he never really seems that, like, I guess at Oxfordy, immediately finds his friend in the House of the Dragon kid. Right. Pointy face, McGee. Yeah. Who's like, you know, he is obviously, he's like autistic coded and he's like, you know,

and like that's sort of, he has to kind of, he wants to break free with that. Ask me sums. Which like, you know, if we're going to cancel Emerald for anything. But then it's like, I just, I just feel like it's sort of that thing of, he never seems that awkward. It ever seems kind of like enough of a weirdo except that Barry Keogan has a weird face. he's, like, hot, but he looks to get a possum from tiny tunes. Like, he has that, that's the thing I always think of.

He looks just like what I'm saying. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, he looks exactly at the possum family from how I spent my vacation. But he's, like, hot. I don't know. It just, I guess, like, there's, they sort of have to do it by having Farley. He's hard of Palsam, Parson. Farley has to repeatedly be like, you're poor and no one will ever accept you.

Because it's like, he's not really, he's not actually poor as we learn. Nothing about him reads as awkward as like... Well, comparatively, he still is. As far as... Well, he might as well be poor considering how much he wants to be... But Farley, it is just treating him like he is a welfare case.

And like that is kind of like... But I just feel like his behavior, it never quite as awkward as I think it's supposed to, or I don't know. Maybe the idea is that they just treat him like... Couldn't they have just given him bad taste in music or something? well I like make him not cool like but I be not so out of place but make him more of a like but I also feel like that's that maybe also is not the worst thing in the world because it then

communicates this idea that like he's not even that hapless he's not right he can still sort of like get this girl to you know come back to his room with him except for the fact that like The only way he can close the deal is if she feels like they're making Felix jealous. Because ultimately, even being like middle of the road, middle of the pack, he's absolutely out, you know, outshined in every way by this golden, you know, golden god that is Felix. And so in that way, I agree with you that, like, the signifiers when he's at Saltburn should probably be a little bit more stark, or at least, like, more plentiful, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's also, I mean, it's like, I don't think it's all for

and it's interesting because you kind of expect the parents to not accept him, but it's like they're overly familiar. They condescend to him instead. Yeah. But they're overly familiar. I mean, the first scene with Rosamond Pike is just like. It's the best. She's so good in that scene.

I know. This is my letterbox review, but I was like, queen out with her. Like, that is like, if you were got up there and she was acting like that, like, you just drop everything, drop your plan. Of course. become her bestie because why would you ever want to take this family down and you could be hanging out with that woman who was like the line that too wet for me men are so lovely and dry oh my god that line but the line that they use in the trailer where felix where she's just like oh he's absolutely like she says he's like gorgeous or something like that or like um not a minger she complements him and then felix was like yeah mom i told you and she's like yes but you're kind about everyone you heck you can't be trusted like that kind of thing um um um um um I love her in that. But wait, oh, I wanted to say the scene where they first arrive at Saltburn and Felix gives him the tour through the house that's sort of, you know, you're going from room to room.

And the way Felix is just like... Dead rallies, dead rallies, dead rallies, dead rallies, Henry the second, Henry the fourth, Henry the eighth, like all these people. It's a tremendous scene and it's, I think, incredibly telling of specifically what flavor of. of, you know, wealthy that specifically Felix is, where he's just like, he's not even like, he's not obnoxious about it. He's just completely blasé in a way that is infuriating to watch because it's just like you don't even know to be impressed or embarrassed by all of this. Yeah, I do think there's something about, like, it's, you know, about British class that like we don't have here, which is like, all of these families. They are names that are,

everyone knows. They are, they do date back centuries. They all have the community of pages that I have been fascinated by. I looked up to the people who own this estate, a real one just to find out like, and it's, you know,

been in this family forever. And there's, of course, yeah, this like weird royal adjacent drama. So I do feel like there's something like, that is just like, I don't know,

British rich people are more interesting to me in that way. And I think less interesting to people in the UK who are used to that. Or like they have, they have a history in a context that we don't, that our rich, people don't really have, you know, we do still have, like, people who have offended from, you know, Jim Vanderbilt who wrote the screen movies is a Vanderbilt, but it's like the new screen movies, but it's like not as interesting. He's like not, you know, it's not dynastic in the way that it is over there. I'm going to Asheville this summer, Asheville, North Carolina. And so I'm like, well, I have to see the Biltmore estate because like I am that kind of asshole who just sort of just like, I just want to see it. I just want to see it up close. I want to see the vastness of it and the sort of, you know, um, the opulence of it. And so again, I'm reading the Wikipedia page of that. And it's like, you know, there's a library that has a secret passageway into like, you know, an ante room and

whatever. And that's the men's, the gentleman's club that like, you know, in the back where like women have never been allowed or whatever. And it's just like, oh, the murders that happened back there or whatever. Just like, good Lord. This house that like Anderson Cooper and Timothy Oliphant have access to, probably or whatever, just sigh. Wait, Barry Keogan, I want to sort of like dip into a little bit career-wise with him for a second because like I think he's maybe the most interesting one in terms of like where this situates him because it's right following his Oscar nomination. He's nominated alongside Brendan Gleason for Banshees of In a Sharon in a way that like, and correct me if maybe this. off base, but it did feel like Brendan Gleason was the one, once Banshee's sort of hit really well at the festivals, Colin Farrell, uh, was definitely like pegged pretty early to like get

that Oscar nomination once that movie hit and like, um, uh, you know, thankfully for that because I did win that bet, but, um, that Brendan Gleason was just sort of like, oh, like, this movie's going to get a supporting nomination. It'll be Brendan Gleason. And then I think even at the time when it played festivals, people were like, it's too bad because like, Barry Keogan's really good in that movie. Yeah, it took a minute. And then all of a sudden, like, why not too? Why not, you know, nominate them both?

So I feel like it was a testament to how much of an impact he had in that sort of small role that people were like, we'll wedge in a second Banshee's nomination in this category because people really liked him. And I think that itself was the culmination of him being like kind of the weird. the weird kid in Sacred Deer or Dunkirk or Green Night. Eternals.

Like his part in Green Night is always so funny to me. Because he literally just like, Dev Patel comes by him by the side of the road. And it's like this guy's a weird guy. Is he going to kill me? Like, what's going out? Yes. Awesome movie with Cominette. I just had to bring that up.

Perfect. And then of course, he's in that like weird um i don't think is whatever it's post credits or wherever he shows up in the batman where he's um the trodo joker right where he's gonna be joker for whatever and then they completely changed their mind on all of that as the dc universe is want to do just like eight billion times did they totally reverse course on that is he not i feel like they're just not going to pursue at least they're not going to i don't think they're going to pursue that they haven't even started filming on the sequel so who knows yeah maybe they could go back

with, but it'll be in flux. I suppose. I do need to see for Pattinson's jawline and the feedback howl again. I think that was. It's the only thing about that movie that I really liked was that was that jawline. I thought it was incredible. I thought that movie had problems, but I would watch it again. Yeah, I liked it fine.

I, watching the Penguin TV show, I was at least happy that I finally, because ultimately, I was like what, I thought putting Colin Farrell in that whole get up for the amount of juice you get from the squeeze in the Batman is ultimately like, what's this worth, ultimately? Like, not much. So I was glad that at least in The Penguin, you know, he got to really sort of spread his wings a little bit. Also, I like that he had to deal with the torture of wearing a fat suit for that long because I feel like if you put on a fat suit, you should have a little bit of like, of like a punishment for that. No, you should have like, you should walk with a weird limp for the rest of your life by like, it should do damage to your. You should be forced to think about your choices for an indefinite period of time.

Lewis, did you see Bird? No, I didn't see it. It was on my list, and then when it became clear that it was not going to get nominations from my critics group, our critics group, I ducked out. He's the best thing about Bird. He is definitely the best thing about Bird. He sings no fewer than three songs in that movie, one of which is Coldplay, one of which is a blur song, and one of which is, a verve song. So lots of good stuff to be had. And he's got his frog. He's got his little he's got his little like the toad that he licks for hallucinogenic purposes. And he dances to

Kot and I Joe. There's just a lot of fun. Well now I'm kind of like more interested. Yeah. That's it does you should be. We talked about Byrd a little bit at our class of 2024 episodes who don't have to go too much into this. But like I I am now in an incredibly sort of pro berry frame of mind, right? And I'm eager to see he's in this Trey Edward Schultz movie with The Weekend.

Is this the one that's like rumored to be about Prince? I thought the rumors was it was like the weekend trying to do Purple Rain. Yeah, trying to do Purple Rain. But I thought I also heard rumors that it's like a misery retread. All I know is that I went to Hall

If I'm hearing conflicting rumors, and maybe it's multiple, maybe it's all of them, but, like, I think there's probably rumors out there for a reason to maybe deflect people from what this thing is, but otherwise I am not looking forward to this movie. I went to Halloween Horror Nights, and there was a maze conceived by the weekend that was like a plastic surgery horror show experience. So it's called, now it has a title. hurry up tomorrow. It is dated for May 16th, to be determined whether that sticks with that. The writing credit is like based on an album, an upcoming album by The Weekend. It stars The Weekend and Jenna Ortega, a movie star who I have complicated feelings about,

mostly because I think the people who really love her are kind of annoying Lewis, a present company excluded. Barry's in it. Charlie DeMelio is in it, which is another sort of like trigger for me where I'm just like, whatever. Trey Edward Schultz is another,

Trey Edward Schultz is maybe my Emerald Fennell where I'm just like, wealthy ass. You know what I mean? Just like, you can tell that like this, you know, this kid. Each movie is like a measured fall off. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know if like,

You need to be taking him down. I feel like his fans have, like, disappeared, right? Like, I feel like there was. I mean, I loved Kresha, and I liked it comes at night. I did, too. And then I didn't see waves, and I read about waves, and that was enough for me. I like that, like, at some point, Crescia went through a process of mitosis and split off into two,

and on one side went the bear episode flashback with Jamie Lee Curtis, and on the other side went Christmas Eve and Miller's Point and that like two very, very separate vibes and I'm kind of fascinated by that. But yeah. Christmas Eve and Miller's Point. Good movie. Good movie. Real good movie. It comes at night. I sort of am famously brady about where ultimately for as good as it was at setting a mood, it really just like refused to come to anything by the end of that movie. And I. still am pissed at it. And Waves, I think there are good elements, but ultimately, Lewis, I said to you the other day that I find people who say cringe is a red flag,

but here's what I'm going to do again. I'm going to say the Waves is a very cringy movie, I think, in a lot of ways. So, there's my type five on Trey Edward Schultz. I don't know. I'm excited for whatever Barry has coming, though. Yeah, what else?

Pecky Blinders movie. Pecky Blinders movie. Is that what the immortal man is? Um, yes, Stephen Nights The Immortal Man is the Peaky Blinders movie. And then he's in something that Wikipedia says is currently filming called Crime 101, a Bart Leighton movie. Um, with Monica Barbaro.

With, right, because, yeah. Her name is, but her. Uh, Chris Hemsworth. Once again, I have the request Michael Bobaro, please interview Monica Barbaro. This cast is kind of banger, though. Chris Hemsworth and Mark Ruffalo together again after, uh, Various Marvel movies.

Barry Keoggan, Hallie Barry, Monica Babaro, Corey Hawkins, Jennifer Jason Lee, Nicknulty, Tate Donovan. A lot going on. A lot going on there. I'm kind of into it, whatever it is. It's a crime, it's like an adaptation of a crime novel. Like, cool, yes, cool.

What has Bart Leighton done? What's American Animals? Well, Barry was good in that. So I don't know if I would say the rest of that movie is all that good. But Barry's good in that. So did you watch that, Chris, when we did research for libraries and bookstores? Which one again? That's the American Animals, the one where Barry killed and Evan Peters beat up the kindly librarian lady.

Right, right. Yeah, that's sort of how I felt. I know people really like it, but eh. Yeah, that's sort of how I felt about that. Have you ever seen that, Lewis? No, I haven't. Yeah, we don't, we don't acknowledge, we don't acknowledge that. But yes, Crime 101, I'm into, Barry's got some good stuff coming up.

I'm very interested. I'm excited. Good for that. Good things are coming. Jacob Allorty, I also think, is really interesting. Jacob Allorty is working with interesting directors, even if I don't always love the results. Didn't love Priscilla. Didn't love O'Canada. Oh, I didn't see O'Canada. I think people really, really hate that movie. And I can't really do that. I don't know if it all completely comes together. but I do think that Schrader's doing some stuff there. On Swift Horses, speaking of, I don't know if that's another movie with visible come in it, but I know there's like sexy sex stuff happening.

Well, yeah, he's in deep water, which has sexy sex stuff, but nobody will come. That's a movie that I watched, and I was like, oh, that's Jacob Allorty, because I knew the people were, like, talking about him from, what's it called, euphoria. I only watched the first season of you.

I watched the first episode and was like, this is hell. I will not be watching that. That's sort of where I was at. And yet, like, of course, like, this year especially where, you know, the alums of, you know, of Euphoria are really coming around. I have not shut up about how much I love Hunter Schaefer and Kuku, and I will not anytime soon. But, and, and I also am now given to find out that Austin Abrams was on Euphoria, which is, Uh, fine. I am historically very pro Austin Abrams and things, so... Coleman Domingo is good on you for you.

Colman Domingo, of course, Zendaya, of course, Jacob Allorty, of course. Um, oh, what's her face from that, um, movie where she's pregnant and they're on a road trip. Um, unpreignant. Did you ever see Unpregnant with, uh... No, early HBO Max movie. Barbie Ferreira. Barbie Ferreira and H. the Richard said. I just saw Barbie Ferreira in a play. Oh. And she was unfortunately outmatched by everyone else in play. Oh, no. It's, I, you know, sometimes TV actors, like, they need a little bit more, I don't know, direction when they do theater. They do, in fact, mean that. It was a challenge. But anyway, so a very, very talented cast full of young people who, um, I'm eager to see in other things with still the quizzical, side eye towards Sydney Sweeney. One day maybe she will fully

win me over. I like to Immaculate. I like an Immaculate. That is true. Oh, I started to talk to you about Immaculate last night, Lewis, because I feel like that movie set up against the first omen, and I feel like I ended up

liking Immaculate more, and I think I'm like on this shallow end of the of the divide on that one. I think that the thing about those movies is that everyone was like met on Imaculip, I loved the ending, and everyone was really into the first Omen, but hated the ending. So I think it's, you know. Yeah. I did love the ending to Immaculate. I think that's probably really waiting my appreciation. Yeah, and the ending of the first album. Any movie

with a catacombs is a half-star upgrade. But I also feel like the first Omen has a director who, like, plays the podcast game very well. You know what I mean? Where, you know, I think both. I think they both do. Sure. I just feel like the one, the first omen director, I'd sort of seen show up on like a bunch of podcasts that I listen to. So, um, unless, like, there's, you know, no shade. That's the economy we live in. That's the, that's the film economy we have created for ourselves. God help us all. Um, I think people talking about the first omen was more annoying to me than anything in the movie. I liked the movie just fine. I liked it more than I liked immaculate. Yeah. But every time I saw someone comparing it to Isabella Johnny in possession, much like many other performances we've seen in the past two years, I'm like, I'm that Chloe 70 clip,

we need more movies, we need more references. Well, I mean, that was a direct reference, but I think that I, it's still, it's,

it doesn't live up to the reference. Sure. I think people, I think people, um, as they are want to do, but especially when it's a movie that has, looks terrible on paper.

they're going to overhype it a little bit. It was like people had extremely low expectations for the Omen series is mostly really, really bad. It's kind of all not great. And so I think that the fact that a prequel ended up being probably the best movie or at least second best movie in that franchise was notable. Yeah. I think that's true. I mean, it's just like it felt very, I've seen the Ajani GIFs, not I've seen the full Ajani performance. You know, that's just me.

Can we talk about Venetia, finally, the sister, who I do feel like... Maybe the weakest character. I was going to say, the weakest character, the one that I feel like the movie has the most sort of tenuous hold on when she's not actively on the screen. It doesn't feel like she exists. She needs to behave this way because the movie needs her to behave this way. It's the character who most acts like that. Yes, yes. And ultimately, like, she is as more so than maybe any other character, she's...

upon in Oliver's game, right, where, you know, I feel like he actively lusts after Felix. I feel like he sees Venetia as, you know, a chess move to make in the movie or, or, you know, a, I think there's more of a predatory nature to him having sex with her, you know what I mean? That this is him, you know, getting at Felix. Conquering her. Yeah, although it's, I think that whole thing is confusing. I mean, I think that her feelings about him are, do shift kind of constantly and not in a way that feels like it's a believable character thing and more like a way that feels like script not knowing what to do with her. I agree.

I agree. A weak spot for me. Richard E. Grant, I think, on the other hand, is really tremendous in this movie and really gets to the kind of the ways in which wealth completely isolate a person from the world, the sort of like reality, his thing. The line he says, where he says, oh, I can wear my suit of armor. Darling, I can wear my suit of armor to the party. And the after Felix dies, the sort of the scene that does go over the top with the red curtains.

I'm just going to say, it's a little much. And yet, I think he plays that scene. He's, he's, you can't kind of take your eyes off of him in that scene. He's, you know, so on edge. He's so, you know, barely holding it together. You can't quite, you know, guess in what way he's going to sort of flip his top. And I think he's quite good. That's what you hire our entertainment grant for, to show up for a few scenes in a movie to be perfect.

I still wanted him to win that Oscar. Yeah. For Salfurn? Yes, for Salfurn. Yes, I did want him to win the Oscar for Salkburn. No, it's one of those things where you look back and you're like, he's probably not ever going to get nominated for an Oscar again. Like, that really was his one, his one shot, the Can You Ever Forgive Me nomination?

And wasn't he nominated after that? Richard E. Grant? No. Was he not now? All right. Well. No, unfortunately. and what like a true rare delight on the award circuit too like just a pure light and a genuine big-hearted person in this world who does not seem jaded by you know yeah anything i guess in my mind i remember him getting nominated for saltburn i just thought they all you know picked up some nods there listen bafta almost nominated everybody because bafta was all in on saltburn i kind of cackle

at that because by that point, all of the haters were like fully, you know, had their say and whatever. And then the BAFTAs are one of the last people before the Oscars, one of the last groups before the Oscars to release their nominations. And everybody's sort of looking to them more and more to be a bellwether for the Oscars. And they're like, cool. And they're less and less. Well, and they're just like, cool. We'll do that kind of. But also like, here's all the salt burn you could possibly want. Their wins matter more than their nominations. I think that's true. Like, their wins. still can be an indicator of like a late-breaking surprise, but...

Yeah, well, and there is still, Kyle Buchanan pointed out this week, or pointed out, I think, day of nominations, that the, that sort of surprise challenger snub in score was, you know, a little bit predicted by the fact that it didn't end up on the short list for BAFTA. Like, that was a warning sign, perhaps an early warning sign for that. But yeah, it gets nominated for Best British Fish film loses to the zone of interest. I love that saltburn and the zone of interest were

in any way in the same category and something. And Wonka. The full spectrum of cinema in 2023 was had the zone of interest, Wonka, Saltburn, and the Old Oak. Those are the four quadrants of cinema that you could have. Barry was nominated for Best Actor alongside essentially most of the Oscar lineup. Killian Murphy, Bradley Cooper, Coleman Domingo Paul Giamatti. They also nominated Teo U for Past Lives. Rosamund Pike got the honor of being the 175th person to lose to Dave I and Joy Randolph for the holdovers that season. They also, BFTA, I will say, God Love Them, were the last gasp of appreciation for all of a strangers, a movie that I really, really loved and um they nominated claire foy they nominated i believe they nominated andrew scott as

well um no wait they wouldn't have because that was best actor i guess they didn't those fuckers they nominated palmescal yes who was good but like how do you not nominate andrew scott i'm still kind of mad about that fucking bradley cooper eat rocks bradley jesus um writing it is um was not ross and barry also were globe nominated too for the movie i Ross was as well? Yeah. Sure was. Yeah.

I don't remember that at all. I think the thing that I had forgotten was that it was nominated. It was a drama at the Globes, which I find to be. Incorrect. It's actually strange. I mean, I think it isn't matter for supporting, but Barry was nominated as a lead in the drama, which I think is just like absurd. I find that delicious. As I pointed out, not good at this.

Well, I don't, yeah. Are not great. I don't. do you think it would have made much of a difference to its globes? Chances had it been a comedy given... I mean, I think you have... If they put it as a comedy, which it is a comedy, like, you could have a Best Picture nomination.

I can make a case for this. I think it's... I think I can make a case for this as a drama. It's a very sort of absurd and lighten drama. Well, the thing is, like, I don't know. The scene, you're talking about them with the red curtains. Like, obviously there is a lot of drama in that scene. It's such, it's such, like, broad.

satire also. It's so unbelievable that it only really works if it's a comedy because it's like, I know they're playing these reactions of like, we're in a stiff upper lip bit, like, but it's, it's too heightened to be taken seriously. Yeah. If it, if, if first of all, there's enough

humor in this movie that it's like, well, yes, it's going for a comedy. I mean, it ends with a naked guy dancing to gay pop music. I'll say this. To have nominated Saltburn, for the Globes who have nominated Saltburn as a drama and made December as a comedy does feel like some dissonance is happening there, where it's just like...

I mean, May December is also a comedy. I watch May December this week, and it's like... If you are taking May December as a comedy, which I agree that it is, it does seem to make some sense that you would also take... I mean, the funniest movie since the pandemic, May December. Incredible, incredible movie. God. We, wait, that got nothing, right? We can actually do that. No, it got a screenplay nomination. We'll do it as an exception. We'll do it as an exception. That whole scene where Natalie Pitt Portman's going through the auditions. And she's like, I don't know. Can we just like, it should be like not sexy, but more sexy.

And the guy's like, I think you need to come home. But that's another movie for as like funny as that is. Then you get to like, that's another movie with a sex scene that is, you know, that communicates actually. That is a fake dick. We know that one's a fake date. Well, we do know that that is a fake dick. But also kind of a bang and wagon on that guy, too. Sure.

But that's another sex scene that, like, actually, that's a movie that is smart enough to know that, like, the sexual politics that play there are not just for, you know, period reasons, right? Like, so the crux, that movie kind of, like, turns on that sex scene and sort of, you know. This is what grown-ups do. Yeah. It's, I mean, yeah, I think. that if you're looking at the comedy is nominated for a Golden Globe, you know, many of them have, you know, obviously a lot on their mind. And some of them are air and some of them are, you know, May December or the holdovers or poor things where I feel like there's a little bit more going on there. And you can make a case kind of for them being. Yeah. Comedy dramas, uh, in most cases. I think that calling this a drama full stop is like a ridiculous thing to do given. I mean, I think there's, there is a full. I think there is a full. you know, many movies that straddle the line between comedy and drama and ultimately where you nudge it one way or another, you're not getting the full picture. So I get it.

These decisions are made strategically to, like, you know, Amazon probably said we're putting this in drama because they want it taken more seriously. And I think ultimately what it does is the movie is taken less seriously. Yeah. And, God, Nicholas Cage got nominated for Dreams A movie that I did not connect to. Extended fart noise. Who would have been nudged out of best actor in a comedy had this been a comedy at Golden Globes? Probably Joaquin nominated. Probably Joaquin for Bo is afraid, I feel like.

Yeah. Or Nicholas Cage, I guess, possibly. I want to, I want to believe that. As long as Timmy and Wonka stays. Thank you. I think Wonka's financial success really did a lot. I would bet that Timmy was probably the third highest book getter in that category. And Wonka is a musical.

Yeah, exactly. It has fancy points for the Globes. Yeah. Did you like Air, Lewis? Were you one of the people who liked there? It was one of those movies that I, it was another one of those screeners that I was, like, waiting as long as I could. And then once it wasn't nominated, I was like, I can finally mystified by the praise for that movie. I have not been, I can be on the other side of this, too.

I can be a bitch about movies that other people like. Like, that's fine. I mean, I like it because I missed your whole last show or a conversation where I would have been. and, you know, jumping in with my own feelings. So I like when you guys are bitchy about things I agree with, at least. That's what we're here for to be bitchy about things that you agree with, so. Yeah, if you want to watch a movie that the needle drops will make you want to never hear music again, watch air. Oh, they're so bad.

God, I totally forgot that. They're really bad. They are canonically bad. Yeah, yeah. God, all right. What else? We talked about the BAFTAs. I feel like we should talk about how this movie had its world premiere at Telluride,

which I think is a categorical bad decision. Coins, coins, coins. Bad. No, this isn't even against Telluride, but it's so clearly not the festival to just, especially because, like, that's a festival where, you know, I guess it's, I don't want to say it's hard to contain, bad buzz around a movie but like when a movie dies there like it's kind of the end of the road for the like you think of the movies like bardo um what else has kind of died there i think that's sometimes true but i don't know if it's necessarily always true i feel like this year something like and i mean we can sort of haggle with the fact that like did nickel boys do as well as it could have but like nickel boys did not get the reception there that you know you maybe want to get out of tell you right and that's a movie that ultimately still got a best

Picture nomination. Yeah, by reports, the tell your right audience was kind of perplexed by that movie, which I kind of think. I think that movie is very telling you what it's doing, though. But I think for Salfurn, though, it's different. It's not the Nickel Boys thing where it's like it's the artifice of it. That audience just doesn't get. I think it's like... Salfurn feels venicey to me. You know what I mean? I feel like... Yeah, but they turned it down. Oh, they did. Oh, okay. Well, There we go. They did. But, fuck my drag.

Fee to me. Like, Salfurn should have been a TIF premiere. It's like, that's a big audience, a populist audience. Yeah. That, you know, more likely to get the audience that this movie was intended for. And I don't think that audience is the tell you right audience. I think it was, like, dramatically, I just feel like the nice route for this movie when it was announced. And, and, like, from everything as it was filming where it's like, I don't know how much.

you could have changed the discourse around this movie and the narrative that it was like an out-of-touch British lady doing bad class politics. Well, think about the movies that do have, you know, discoursey responses once they're at ground level with regular audiences that have done well at TIF. Like, here's the thing I'm going to bemoan is have we lost the ability for a movie like this to succeed financial? at the box office, when the demographic that it's going for, which is horny teens and early 20s people, just have stopped going to the movies, beyond like Marvel movies or whatever. Like, I'd maybe argue the intended audience for this movie is a little older than horny teens and Gen Z. I guess where I'm sort of coming at that is, is if this is to me, like the successor to cruel intentions that I sort of think it is.

But like that's that's a movie that appealed to like the MTV generation of its moment, right? And I feel like. Yeah, but I feel like this is closer to that exact generation that consumed cruel intentions. This is like cruel intentions nostalgia for millennials. So it's just those old up. So like, so what is it about this movie that doesn't appeal to people who are the age of these characters? Like, why would it not appeal to college-aged people to 19-year? I mean, I think it should, but I think the movie's bread and butter, the audience that's most likely to get it and get that nostalgia.

I definitely agree with you there. But I just, I still feel like, you know, a movie with, you know, Jacob Allorty, you know, the hot star of Euphoria or whatever, that is this sort of style forward, this kind of brash and, you know, it's sexy and whatever. you know, far be it from me to bring out, to play the, you know, Gen Z is a bunch of, you know, Puritan freaks who are scared of sex, but like, who don't go to movies unless they're watching their TikToks and, and, but see, I think that audience did find it. They just found it late. I think I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I, not going to movies is one thing, and I agree with you there. I don't think it was the sex phobia that, like, turn to like, no, I know, I know. Like, I think that that, like, I don't know. I do think I, I will always be surprised that, like,

Not surprised because I think gay people online form an annoying opinion and then kind of like coalesce around them. You're kidding me. But I was sort of like all of these, there are so many gays I know who die for Rosamond Pike who can't even acknowledge how iconic she has in certain scenes in this movie. I'm not saying she takes the entire movie, but like you should at least be gagging for her if you're not like while you're annoyed by whatever else. And like I feel like you didn't even get that because people were so anti this movie that they couldn't they couldn't acknowledge. that. I did want to say, Joe, that I didn't realize until doing some research slash reading Wikipedia that this is the movie that made Barry drop out of Gladiator 2 and his role went to Fred Heshinger. So that's a special gift to you. It is a special gift to me. I think

this movie? How long ago did they shoot Gladiator 2? I mean a bit ago. For a long time. Or maybe they were going to do, they think they had a lot of prep to do for that. And maybe he would have had to get in, like... Because he dropped out of that at a fairly early stage. He actually is an amazing shape, so I guess not. But you don't really need to be, to be the fancy, syphilitic little faggy emperor with the monkey. I also think if Barry Keogan's in that role, you lose the surprise because it's like, you watch that trailer and it's like, oh, well, Hedgeinger dies first. And like, that's spoiler alert and the opposite of what happens.

So it's like you lose that bit of... surprise. I'm so surprised that there were people who, I know there are people whose opinion I very much respect who did not like Fred in that movie, but I thought he was a hoot and a half. I thought Fred was better than Joseph Quinn in that movie. I thought Joseph Quinn was fine in that movie. I have no, I had no issues with the emperors or at Denzel. My issues were with everything else that happened in that movie. I like all that. I think, by the way, I think the Joseph Quinn movie that people should see from this year is a quiet place day one. I agree. I agree. credible in that movie. Although I did, it did really annoy. I love that movie and I love it more than both of you clearly, but I did, it did bother me when that character was like, by the way, he's gay after the fact. I was like, now I'm annoyed. Yeah. Yeah. That's not his fault or the movie's fault. Really, it's more the writer's fault for being annoying to me specifically. No. I kind of felt like he was working his ass off for quite literally a nothing character. I don't know about that. I didn't love that movie as much as a lot of people. Oh, I thought it was quite good.

I also, I mean, I'm still the guy who watched his season of Stranger Things and I thought he was a lot of fun, so Maybe one day I'll go back and watch that show, but I, that's another show like Euphoria where I was like, this on paper feels like a show for me and I like put it on. That show really has become

ungovernable. Yeah, but from the beginning I found it so irritating and so like, well then pastiche in a way that like I just could not get behind, so. I get it. I get it. I, there's no I mean, I totally understand the appeal of it. just like, it rubbed me the wrong way, and I never went back.

Yeah. Well, here we are. Anything, any last notes on Salt Burn or the awards race for it? I just wrote down MGMT and big old letters. Like, if you give me a montage set to Time to Pretend, I'm not going to respond emotionally to it. Like, that is a burned brightly for a very brief amount of time, but like almost everything from that, like,

It was basically, it was just that one album, right? Like, everything that you know of that you can probably hum from MGMT came from that one I, like, some other MGMT stuff. But yeah, I mean, that was the, that was the big. Oh, I mean, like, you have to understand who you're talking to here. I have, yeah, it was in, I skim the surface. I skim the very surface. I, the only other other thing that I wanted to mention, I'm looking at my notes and I've covered

most everything is RAP Pamela. Oh, poor dear Pamela. The favorite exchanges is Pamela died. She'd do anything for attention. They don't have rehab in Liverpool. Every line about and from Pamela is incredible. Like, what's the line where she just goes, oh, like, her reaction is to something very, very... Very well again is so funny.

It's when we're talking about Shelley, the poet, and she thinks it's like a person in Shelling. The person named Shep. The bit of Barack Charter. I also... The bit where she's talking about she didn't know, she didn't understand the Russian word for horror. She's so... Oh, God.

She's really funny. She's really, really funny. Also, Richard E. Grant's character being such a fan of karaoke, and where he's literally like, he doesn't know the words, and he's like, that's the fun of karaoke. like it's it's I enjoy him I enjoy him a lot um yeah okay let's move on to the iMdb game chris no lewis is dreading it i'm looking for i just i just have no recall and like this comes up

but i'm playing cinema matrix because i will see an actor that i love and i've seen like all their movies and i'll be like what's a movie they've been and i just draw a complete blank so that's what i always worry it's going to happen you're going to give me a name to someone that i like know and love And I'm going to be like, I don't know what we're here for. We are here to terrorize our friends. Okay, well, I picked a really hard one for you anyway, so don't worry about it. Okay, good. Chris.

Awesome. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints and dead relies, dead relies, more dead relies. Lewis, as our guest, you get the choice to kick this off by either giving a clue or guessing and in which order you would like this round-robin to go. I'll guess from whoever wants to go easy on me after I texted you both pleading to and I mean, it looks stupid. Chris, what do you think?

I got it. Okay. All right. You will give to Lewis. Lewis will give to me. I will give to Chris. All right. So I was thinking about young,

Twinkie, British stars and actors, and I came up with none other than Harry Styles. Harry Styles. Heard of them. Heard of them. Okay. Three of them are acting,

and one of them is a soundtrack credit. Oh. I don't know if I'm going to get that. Dunkirk. Correct. He is billed as Alex and not twink number seven. Um, okay. Um, last time I got four for four, like entirely by accident, so, but I won't.

Uh, because of the soundtrack. Um, don't worry, don't worry, darling. Don't worry, darling, correct. The only other movie that I can think of that he's in is Eternals. Eternals is incorrect. Um, okay. What else is he in? Oh, my policeman, is that what's called?

My policeman. My Polly Chemin. How is he ever going to get that? Yeah, everybody wants to memory hole that he's Thanos's nephew or whatever. He's, yeah, he's, Air Force. Firefox, Fox, something.

Oh, no, isn't there like a little cupidty? He's a web browser? No, it's, what it's a call, it's, um, it's not Firefox, but it's like, like, it's something. Something like that, but he's Microsoft Edge. So is Pat and Oswald, the little cupidy guy?

Or like a Trump? Petten Oswald is Is, um, is, uh, yes, he's Whatever Cupid's, um, how am I just now hearing of Pat Mouselons? It's, it's voice only, it's voice only. I believe, right? I think it's a CGI character. Anyway, yeah, stupid.

Um, okay, so I have three, right? And I have one. A soundtrack. If you, uh, after one more cast, I will give you the year. Well, that's not going to help me. It's soundtrack. Um, Harry Styles. Uh, was there a documentary about one,

direction. There was. There was a concert movie that I saw in the theater, but it is not that. Okay. Damn it. Uh, your year is 2018. He, it is a cover of a title song that definitely was at least nominated for an Oscar.

But it's, but that title song has no bearing on the actual, the movie that it's. No, but it is clearly like, wink, wink, I am queer baiting you. Don't say that way. word about this movie. There was such an annoying discourse about that movie. No, I'm not talking about the movie. I'm talking about Ari Stiles. There's also annoying discourse about that. I've had sex with Eric Stiles. Oh, there's also an immaculate version of this song, sung at a Kennedy Center Honor by a current Oscar nominee. Who is also an annoying person? Well, no longer current because this is coming out the day after the ceremony.

Oh, okay. Okay. A lot to unpack. Maybe this person won. Okay. Probably didn't. We're overloading. Wait a minute. Let me work back here. I just want to say that I didn't actually have sex with Harry Styles. I just don't like people say he's gay-baiting, so I pretend that I've had sex with him. So the Kennedy Center, the Kennedy Center Oscar nominee won't be anymore.

Is Cynthia? Yes. Yes. Well, absolutely help me because I can't remember what she's saying. Okay. Oh, I might have to send this to you afterwards because it's, it's, I think it's maybe the, maybe the best thing.

She's ever saying. I saw her of the gods. I saw her in Miscast and she did When she did a piece of sky? Yes. And I was like... Which is like very near and dear to me. And I think this is even better.

Guys, the best thing Cynthia Revo ever did was fucking the last five years song that she's saying at Marie's Christ. Oh, that's... I saw her movie in... Yeah, that's so... It was necessary. It was not... Unnecessary to see the whole show.

It's that particular... song at Marie's Sorry, now I'm thinking about the Nick Jonas clip that everyone's been past her up. Anyway, I'm going to need

some relevant hints here. From, it is the title song from a movie from the 60s. The song isn't going to help him though. The movie,

the song is a title character remade in the 2000. I posit that even if he gets the song, yes. Okay. Harry Styles did a cover of Alfie's song.

for this 2018 gay movie. Gay movie 2018. It's a gay movie that a lot of gay people have a lot of gay feelings of superiority.

It's a nice movie. It's a nice movie. It's a nice movie. It's a nice movie based on a nice book where the author is a straight lady who whenever there are trend pieces about like straight women writing gay stories,

She's always wrapped up in it. The actress in this movie is heavily memed for a thing she says to the lead title character. Wait, okay. Yeah. All right. The supporting actress in this movie, not the lead. Wait, okay, 2018, God, a gay movie people have gay feelings about. But what year was called me by your name?

It's not called me by your name, but what year was that? Call me by your name is 2017. Okay, so I'll post call me by your name. Cinematrix categories that this could apply to. Okay. Two-word title, name in title. Oh, Love Simon? Yeah.

Love Simon. He did a cover of Alfie's song for Love Simon. Listener, go look up Cynthia Revo doing Alfie's song and just like, weep, watch it multiple times in a row. It's for Dionne Warwick's Kennedy Center. Okay, well, that wasn't so bad. Thank you for that. I do you feel better all right hit me with uh hit me with what you've got oh so I'm I'm giving now to to you okay yes um so I went to Jacob allorty's filmography thank you and I found a film

film that I have seen that I'm sure you happen called the mortuary collection it is a horror in theology would be in which his penis explodes oh great um it's right it's definitely It's definitely a prosthetic, but you... Oh, well, good for... You know. The star of that film... Uh-huh. ...is a very prolific actor named Clancy Brown.

Oh, I love Clancy Brown. How much... So I love Clancy Brown. No television, one voice performance. Is the voice performance from the SpongeBob movie from one of the SpongeBob movies? No. That's fucked up, Lewis. I know. I did not realize how much voice work he has done, but no, it is all sponge.

This is a, maybe the wildest known for I have seen in a minute. It's wild. It is psychotic. I'm so sorry. Good for Clancy. Good for Clancy. Is one of them Shawshank at least? Yeah. Okay, thank God. All right. I can't believe Carnival isn't on there. I'm so pissed. I'm so pissed. I'm so pissed. That's when I first fell up. He's so good on that show. God damn it. And he's the fucking lead. Okay. Clancy Brown. They're all like movie movies, not like TV movies, right? They're all in theaters films. Yeah. Okay.

I mean, if he was in Shawshank, maybe he was in the Green Mile. I don't know if he was, but that is not correct. So do you, I give you your years now? Yes. Okay. Your years are 1997, 2010. and 2017. Wow. Okay.

2017 Clancy Brown. 97, 2017 and 2010? Correct. We should say the 2017 is the voice performance. Okay.

In an animated movie or a voice performance in a non-animity? Voice performance in a film that you have seen. I am willing to bet a CGI character as some kind. Oh, okay. Is it a Marvel? Yeah. What was the Marvel in 2017?

So Dr. Strange was 2016. 2017 is Guardians of the Galaxy volume? No. No. Okay. It might have been also 2017. I don't know.

They used to, you know, release a lot of those every year. Captain Marvel? No. No. It's maybe my favorite Marvel movie, or it's like top, top three for me, for sure. It's towards the top for me as well. You do not like it, Joe. I was going to say it's probably some bullshit. Thor Ragnarok? It is Thor Ragnarok. He is his voice of Surtur. Sure. I'm sure.

I didn't even know he was in it. So. Yeah. Okay. All right. Knocked that out of the way. Yes, 97 and 2010. One movie that is one of my favorite. and one movie that I pretend does not exist. That's fine. Neither of them were well received in their day, though the 97 movie has been reassessed. Is it like Face Off?

No. No. Face Off was liked a decently well. Face Off has always been awesome. This was a very misunderstood film. Romeo and Michelle's high school reunion. God, imagine Clancy Brown. No, it is not Romeo and Michelle.

Romain Michelle was kind of the butt of a joke. Wrong genre. Yeah, stay more in the sort of Thor Ragnarok, not superhero, but... But action-y, action-action-y, and, like, Thor Ragnarok is also... Space, outer space. Space and action. Is it like Event Horizon or something like that? No.

Getting much warmer. Yes, getting closer. Jason X. No. It's not horror. Well, it's violent. It's a... It's sci-fi.

It's an Oscar nominee Men in Black? No. That was liked. It's an Oscar nominee. Starship Troopers? Starship Troopers. All right.

Right. He isn't Starship Troopers. Yeah, I totally forgot until I saw this. He is Sergeant Zim. All right. So the 2010 one is you pretend doesn't exist. Yes. It's a terrible.

It's a horrible. Terrible. It's a what movie, Louis? It's a horrible movie that I pretend does not exist. And I did not remember. he was in this movie because I had comedy no it's it is not a comedy it is a horror movie it is a horror movie 2010 terrible franchise uh yes is it like one of the bad halloweons no but you're close is it one of it was is it like a remake of one of the classics

it is one of the brookheimer produced remakes i believe is it the runy mara uh nightmare on elm street It is the Rooney Mara Nightmare on Elm Street. Is that a proxious one? I think he, I don't know. He's one of their dad. He's, uh, Kyle Guller's dad, I guess. Okay. Okay.

Interesting. Anyway, terrible. This, this, I, I was looking at a few options and most of them are evil. Um, not by intention. I just grabbed people who were in movies with Jacob, Lordy. And then I saw that his known for was Shawshank, Star Trek troopers, Thor, Ragnarok, and nightmare and Elm Street. And I was like, but if you look at his, maybe he's in like 50 things a year.

It's crazy. No. He has so much. Yeah. Mostly. The Thor Ragnarok voice performance is wild for being on there. Yeah. I mean, I would absolutely put one of his TV roles over that. Again, he's fucking Mr. Crabb, people. Like, what the fuck are we doing here, guys?

All right. Chris, I have the task of challenging you. I went the Emerald-Fennel route. One of the things that people forget, now that she is an Oscar. winner and making movies all the time is she is the person who stepped in and probably ruined killing Eve taking over the show in its second season. That show had a very, very fun first season. And then within like two episodes of season two, I was like, I don't need to be watching the same time. I must watch till the bitter fucking end. God, every time I heard people talk about

that movie, or that show, as it kept going along, I was just like, this sounds bad. All right. But anyway, one of the stars of that show, Emmy winner, and whatnot, is Jody Comer. Jody Comer. And bonus points if you do this entire game in her bike riders accent. Okay. Well, I mean, you got to tell me how much television is in there. One television. Thank you for me.

It's killing Eve. It is killing Eve. It is the bike riders in there? It is not. No bike riders. Wow, no bike riders. Uh, the last duel. Yes.

Uh, the last duel is on there. So two more. Maybe running out of things that Miss Comer is in in the movies. Uh, that TIF movie about a disaster that I never saw and it didn't get good distribution, but, uh, I don't know what it's called. Um, no, what is that called? The things. Something about the things. The end we start.

The end we start from. A horrible title. Truly. Oh, God. Oh, London Flood. The noun we verb. Proposition. Yeah.

No, it is not that one. So those are two strikes. So your years are, oh, they're both. No, wait, they're not. One is 2019 and one is 2021. Okay. I will say they're both Oscar nominees, but not very prominently. famously not for her

No, not for her 2018 you said 19 2019 and 2021 One of them I believe was the last ranked movie In one of my Oscar ranking It's not the last it came close I actually don't know which we're talking about

Both of them are not good movies Let me look up I saw the 2020 one Because it was an Oscar nominee And I was so angry about it Oh, man, I'm memory-hulling these things. 2019, what are the... This is so hard now because all of the craft categories have become so best-picture-focused

that you can't even remember which ones don't get in there. Yeah, neither one of them were Best Picture nominees, so... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Were they... Were they costume nominees? Nope. Yeah, it was my last ranked one that year. Or 2021?

2019? Yeah, the 2020. Yeah. Okay. 2021 and it's a costume design nominee? No, I believe it's visual effects. Yeah. Oh, okay. The other one, the 2019 one is nominated for three of them, and I would be willing to venture that it's either sound, sound, visual effects or like sound score visual effects.

In 2019. In 2019. That's hard. It can't be... It is in fact Yeah, it was score, visual effects Sound visual effects, yeah Is it a different

Ridley Scott? It's not a Ridley Scott. Score and visual effects. I will say the 2021 movie, she's the female lead and the 2019 movie she is a very, very small role. Forgot she was in it.

Yeah, me too. 2021 movie she is the lead it's definitely for boys if you forget that she's in it and it was a visual effects yeah 20 2019 is the one that i forget she was in 2020 yeah 2021 2021 i remember she was in the movie but i regret the movie and that i had to see it yeah it's oh it's oh no no no no it's the reason i didn't um i wasn't an oscar completeist that year be it's um ryan reynolds um what's it called i don't know but if i I didn't get the Dreamers. I'm going to make you wither on this vine until you get this guy. It's not the fall guy, but it's a video game. It's not the fall guy, but you're so close. It's the something guy.

It's not even the. They cut out the the, because it's cleaner. But the fall is very close to the word you're looking for. But it's blank guy. Yeah. Fall guy, real guy. um dead guy um how to get that's it's a video game reference it's like if you it's i don't i don't play that video games to have a good way of getting no i know same video game thing when you um

something something i don't know how to say it without making it too obvious yeah um if something's really, really, like, reduced in price to the point where it's practically... Discount guy. Where it's practically... Free man. Free guy. Free guy.

Yeah. Free guy. All right. So you're 2019. Wait, free guy has an 80% I raw on tomatoes. It's... It's abominable. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was very nice in COVID years.

Free guy does have something in common with the 2019 movie. I will say something. Ryan Reynolds. it also has something in common with Joe no I'm still stuck on the fact that like making the connection that both that movie and because isn't Chris Evans like a surprise in free guy as well surprisingly shows or no I'm thinking of maybe Channing Tatum never mind um there anyway there's marble there's marble stuff in free guy though that's what year yes that is sort of what I'm thinking of but no I don't know what connection you're making between free guy and there's other similar there's other Interesting. If I say one of it, it'll let me too obvious. Yeah. Okay.

2019 movie, three Oscar nominations. So focus on this. Score visual effects and one of the sounds. So if a movie is going to get those three nominations, particularly like score. It's like an epic, right? Yeah, but like there's a very particular type of like franchise that like pulls in score along with its visual effects and sound nominees. Like, uh, like disaster movies.

No, but like what kind of composed, like what? Hans Zimmer. No, but like. Henry Gregson Williams. No, like, up the ladder. Way up the ladder. Up the ladder from Hans Zimmer? Yeah, in terms of composers, yes.

The highest room. Yeah. Oh, John Williams. Is she in Indiana Jones and what the fuck? Nope, you're close, but it's the wrong franchise. Um, but is it, it's not Spielberg in 2019, but it, is it John Williams? John Williams. Oh, is it a fantastic beast?

No, no, it's very funny that, like, it's very appropriate that, like, you don't remember this. You're not remembering this because, like, for as much as people still talk about this and argue about it, it also kind of doesn't exist in terms of, like, it's really, It's really weird that they still nominated this for Oscars because people were so sick of this when it was done, I feel like. Is it Disney? Yeah. But not like, it's Disney acquisition more than like Disney Disney.

Fox, so it's a Fox movie. Well, yeah, but like, why did Disney acquire Fox? One of the like two big reasons. Lucas film. Oh, it's, is it seriously, um, Revenge of a Skywalker? Who is she in that? Rise of Skywalker.

She's Ray's mother. Remember how that movie completely ruined the whole thing that was cool about Ray, which is that like she came from nothing and her parentage didn't matter. And then they were like, no sight. I hate that this is on Jody Comer's known for. Jody Comer is too good for this. She hasn't really done that much movie-wise. So I get- Yeah.

You got to get bike riders up there. Put the fucking bike riders on there. Yeah, that should definitely be there instead of episode nine, a movie that does not exist. the thing they have in common is that Free Guy he uses a lightsaber because it's like a big Disney fucking matchup.

How is every Ryan Reynolds movie the fucking same? I said I refuse to watch free guy for a fucking reason. I will never watch that. I finally watched in anticipation of it getting an Oscar nomination jokes on me

Deadpool and Wolverine a few weeks ago. God, what a disaster. It's just so obnoxious. And like, the gall to use like a prayer is really, you can't tell me that that wasn't like just a thumb in the eye of, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a homophobic act is what I'm saying. It really is. Madonna, you're used to telling people no. Why did you let them have that song? The fuck Madonna. Jesus

Christ. What a betrayal. All right, um, that's the IMDB game. Lewis, as always, just a pleasure. What a time. Just a pure pleasure. I'm so glad we could do this and also that we started recording late so that I could be up past my bedtime recording, which is my favorite way to stay up late, doing a podcast. As a screen drafts, uh, stall where it's Yeah, we would be, if we were doing the screen drafts,

we'd be like midway through the episode. We'd be taking our break. We'd be taking our, uh, our break in the middle of it. Um, yes. All right. Lewis, uh, anything you would like to direct our listeners to, in terms of reading or socially following you? Well, I assume at the time this comes out, I will be fully employed

somewhere. Oh, yeah. But, in the meantime. You'll be a cabinet head in the wonderful administration. Yeah, let's, um, God. I, uh, yeah, you find me on, on blue sky and letterbox. Uh, Lewis Pites in both places. If you care to find Lewis, look to the blue sky.

Look to the western blue sky. And, um, yeah, I, uh, I post things I write there. And I am currently available for hire, although, again, yeah, this airs, I will, be, you know, so busy with a full-time job. But until then, yeah. Yeah. All right, thank you. Chris, what about you?

Letterbox and Blue Sky, Chris V-File, that's F-E-I-L. I am on Letterbox to Blue Sky at Joe Reed, Reed, spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi, myself, and I. You listening right now know whether this is

a podcast about an Oscar-winning actress or not. I don't know. I am living. in the mystery of it all. Anyway, you can go find these wonderful discussions about great films from the 90s at patreon.com slash demipod.

That's DEMI-P-O-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts.

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