This Had Oscar Buzz - 334 – The French Dispatch

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

We’ve got a new Wes Anderson movie on the horizon, so why not revisit one of his more divisive films: 2021’s The French Dispatch. The film features a bursting murderer’s row of cast members to fill out Anderson’s ode to journalism, a triptych of stories all set within the world of a fictional magazine. Originally promised … Continue reading "334 – The French Dispatch"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Melan Hack and French. Dick Pooh. It began as a holiday. Eager to escape a bright future on the Great Plains, Arthur Howitzer Jr. transformed the series of travelogue columns

into the French dispatch, a factual weekly report on the subjects of world politics, the arts, high and low, and diverse stories of human interest. You don't think it's almost too seedy this time? No, I don't. Decent people. It's supposed to be charming. He assembled a team of the best expatriate journalists of his time.

Berenson, Sazarek, Kremence, Roebuck Wright. These were his people. Just try to make it sound like you wrote it that way on purpose. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that got invited to Catherine Heigel's birthday party. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my cycling reporter, Chris File. Hello, Chris. You know, I can't ride a bike. You brought up a prize immediately. Oh, my God, I'm already releasing trauma. You cannot be shocked that I never learned how to ride a bike.

I am shocked. That's surprising. You think I was an outdoor kid ever. Listen, I'm not an outdoor kid. kid and I learned to ride a bike at some point. But still, maybe you'll be one of those late in life, like, a bicycle. Maybe you'll just, like, join a Soul Cycle. No.

Well, yeah, that's stationary. Right. That's what I mean. You don't have to balance. Baby steps here, my friend, like, baby steps. I've done this whole psychological wormhole of this. And it's like, I think kids love bikes because they associate bikes with, like, freedom. Of course.

can go have some type of freedom if you have a bike. Yeah. I think from a very young age, I associated freedom. Freedom is found in the home, first found in the home. The freedom of the mind. You are, you live the life of the mind. The freedom of the written word. I don't need a bike.

I have books. How very Roebuck right of you. We had in my little, not only just my neighborhood, but like very, like, at the end of my street, the cross street to mine if you went all the way in the one direction maybe like five blocks that street went up a hill and at the top of the hill was this like water tower and then up to the next street there but so it was a pretty like sizable hill and so what we would do as kids is we would go up to the top of the hill and then like race our bikes down. the hill. And when I say our, I mean

the other kids, because I would never take part in that. The village bicycle. Okay. The village bicycle is actually a decent name for a trivia team now that I'm thinking of it. But anyway, no, but like the more sort of like the bolder kids would

like race down the hill. And it's literally just like children on bicycles speeding at unsafe speeds passed full like streets with you know, intersecting streets where, like, I can't imagine, I'm so shocked that nobody ever got hit by a car and died. Like, it's so dangerous. It's so good to be dangerous. Did any of you ever ride a bicycle

while wearing a beret? No, but what a look. Like, with like, if I saw someone on a bicycle in town wearing a beret, I would lose my mind. With that, like, striped, that horizontal striped shirt, that, like, navy blue and white? It's acceptable and cool. in a Wes Anderson movie, in life, I don't lose my mind. They're very confident, those people. Anyway, I have placed you in the role of Herbtsant Sasserach. And in my particular vision...

Many have called me a real Owen Wilson type. You're a real Owen Wilson, my friend. I'm excited we're finally doing the French Dispatch. A movie I have now seen three times, and each successive time I have loved it more. And got to say, I was pro French dispatch when I first saw it. Not not super strong. I was sort of reserved, but pro.

But now I'm like, yeah, French dispatch is really good. It fucking rips. It fucking rips. Reading the reviews back then, even the ones who liked it were sort of like, I like this movie. People who don't like Wes Anderson are not going to like this movie. And like, I think at some point maybe around Asteroid City, was when everybody sort of stopped feeling the need

to make that sort of caveat and was just like, listen, if you don't like Wes Anderson, then like, but I think at some point, I think we stopped sort of apologizing for liking Wes Anderson movies. I kind of think, I mean, this doesn't touch Asteroid City to me and I don't want to talk too much about Asteroid City.

Sure. We'll have our moment with that movie eventually. We'll obviously be doing Asteroid City. It'll be a five-hour episode. I'll be crying. It'll be great. Um, the, the, I think Asteroid City successfully achieve some of the other, some of the things that this movie is trying to achieve without any of the, like, hang-ups. Um, because, like, the episodicness of this movie is a hindrance to some degree, some people think it's huge, some thinks it's mild, but I, I think he pulls off the kind of nesting,

doll storyness of what this movie is doing in something that's much less episodic in Asteroid City. Before we do Asteroid City, I'm going to ask you to watch Grand Budapest Hotel again, because I do feel like, I think Grand Budapest Hotel, French Dispatch and Asteroid City in particular, those three movies feel like a real, they're in common. conversation with each other, and I think some really interesting ways. Very excited to see whatever the hell Wes Anderson has up his sleeve with the Phoenician scheme. The Phoenician scheme, my goodness.

Very likely coming to Cannes, at least opening this summer for U.S. audiences. How did you feel about the short films? I liked them. I think I maybe had different favorites than everybody else did, but I really, really enjoyed them. I liked them, but I still don't really feel connected to them in a way that I do with the features. And I'm not entirely sure what that is about. And I wonder if maybe for me that the, you know, the totality of it makes, you know, speaks to me more. This idea of, because I think my favorite things about the French dispatch are not necessarily found in the

individual parts, but in sort of the way that it is brought together as a greater whole, like the, you know, the connections to it, with a few exceptions. I think there are a few moments in particularly the Roebuck Wright segment that are pretty transcendent and pretty, you know, on their own. But like, in general, one of the things, one of the first sort of occasions that I was like, oh, no, I really like this movie is when I started thinking of this movie as Wes Anderson's journalism movie, which obviously, but like it's his journalism movie. He's called it a love letter to journalists, which also sounds like a backhanded compliment in a way. But it's also, but it's, it's a very Wes Anderson sort of owed to journalists,

but like it's his tribute to journalists in a way, in the way that like Alan Pakula's tribute to journalists is all the president's men. And, you know, Tom McCarthy's is Spotlight and Stephen Spielberg's is The Post. And those movies all, you know, those movies all have their own idiosyncrasies and they are all, you know, sort of doing their own thing. But in general, I think take this idea of journalism as something that can, you know, topple corrupt systems and is an instrument for, you know, informing the public of malfeasance. And I think... But can also maybe try to get their hands in those type of revolutions in a way that's not necessarily helpful, too,

which I think is interesting and not a point that people will give this movie credit for when people want to have political issues with this movie. Well, but I think in general, though, I think what Anderson's doing with the French dispatch is it's a it's no less of a tribute to journalism and to journalists journalists but in in this sense that like feature writing and art criticism and you know the kind of writing that you find in the new yorker the kind of writing that comes from indulging writers with these sort of lavish expenses, you know, expenditures and freedom and space and freedom and support that a truly well-funded journalistic endeavor can yield something hugely beneficial,

not just to like, you know, the politics of a society, but not that also. But just sort of the sort of, you know, cultural nourishment of, you know, of living, of society. Well, I mean, like all of the journalism movies that you just drew comparison to, like, those are still mediums that are alive and well at the time of they're making. Like, the French dispatch includes an obituary, but it kind of itself is an obituary to basically magazine writing and long form magazine writing. because Remember Magazine's, our podcast is at least 10% us being like Remember Magazine, generally, on any episode. And that's in keeping with Wes Anderson's whole thing, too. So many of his movies are not just sort of, you know, it's not just kitsch. It's not just sort of, you know, preciousness.

It is also these, you know, depictions in these very obviously particular and very art-directed forms of types of living that maybe never even existed, but certainly don't anymore. You know what I mean? Well, and there's a certain level to the West Anderson-ness of it that, for me, turns, Remember Magazine's in. this rarefied thing that feels like an object in, you know, like the, I'm not someone who is like, look at these like art boxes that look at these objects that Wes Anderson makes and like just thinks about him just as an aestheticist. But like, he's maybe not well matched to be nostalgic about magazines in that way, because then it kind of cutifies them as an idea, as a package, as a, here's what they used to offer.

However, he, I think is the exact right person to be eulogizing magazines and long form print writing, because, you know, these, it's, these three vignettes that exist in the movie do really feel like the type of article you would read in the New York. Well, the New Yorker is still functioning. Right. But that type of print media where, you know, it kind of builds and, you know, goes back and forth in the story. And then the emotionalism hits you at this unexpected place.

And like the denouement is the emotional feeling you're left with. There is a certain type of magazine writing that is exactly the Wes Anderson mode, you know, of storytelling, that it feels like he's almost maybe exposing his influences in a way that, like, we all think we know what his influences are, but maybe he, this is him saying, no, I'm actually highly influenced by this structure of writing. Well, and it's also the idea that he's a filmmaker who has now succeeded on his own terms to a point where he's just allowed to create, in his own way, like fully sort of, you know, build these worlds exactly to his specifications.

And a lot of people, you know, see that as a detriment. And that's fine. Everybody can, you know, have their own tastes or whatever. But I feel like that puts him in a good position to, again, take the, take the POV when it comes to things like long-form journalism or magazine writing or things like that, where his POV is essentially, like, it's not just indulgence. It's not just, you know, pampering writers, even though, of course, some of the funniest things are the scene with Howitzer and Tilda Swinton, when he's going through her, like, line item budget, and she's justifying everything is incredibly

funny. But it also is just like, yeah, like, you get what you pay for, essentially. You know what mean. Like, if you give, you know, artists and, and, you know, in many crucial ways, you know, yes, they're journalists, but they are also artists, this space to really cook, you know, what I mean? For lack of a better term, you are going to reap those rewards. And we are living in a world now that has systematically sort of tightened that vice, you know, to a point where we just don't want to pay for anything. And we are experiencing the sort of, you know, cultural results of that.

The other thing is with West Harrison. Well, the thing I want to say before you move on about us paying for things, Angelica Houston's great narration, spends as much time talking about the back-end finances of this magazine shutting down as it does about the man's death. She talks about everybody getting their refund for their subscription. Yes, yeah, yeah. I want to talk about this movie as like talking about commodities, but I want you to continue what you were saying.

Well, I think we'll get into all of that, certainly. I'm glad that you bring up the Angelica Houston. We should maybe, I don't know, we should maybe wait to get into this movie before we. Yeah, I was going to say, because I do want to talk about the prologue, but, like, let's talk about that after, um, after, you know, we get into, uh, the plot of it all. So before we do that, though, Chris, um, why don't you take a second and inform our listeners why they should, um, pay for more content, um, with our Patreon. How they should support alternate media. Support journalists.

I can't really call myself a journalist. Not with a straight face. Not with a straight face. I write about, like, I literally just wrote about, uh, anyway. In that way, sure, your journalism, but I just mean this endeavor is not exactly journalism, but you know what? Sure, sure, sure, sure. We like to entertain.

Uh, listener, have you joined this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance over on Patreon? Guess what? For $5 a month, you totally can. You can support this artistic, vaguely journalistic endeavor. With your support of $5 a month, and what are you going to get for that support? You're going to get some bonus episodes, first of which comes on the first Friday of every month. We call this exceptions. These are episodes that prior to launching the Patreon, people begged and begged and begged for us to do.

Movies that fit that this had Oscar Buzz rubric of great expectations, disappointing results managed to score a few nominations or two. This month we talked about Mary Queen of Scots. They're sisters. You kill your queen, you kill your sister. You murder your sister and you murder your queen. Forgive me for the dialect. But we talked about Sertia. We talked about Margot.

We talked about costume dramas and anachronisms. Honestly, more fascinating movie than you remember. What other exceptions have we done, Joe? We've recently done Mulholland Drive. Fatham of the Opera with our friend Natalie Walker. Fuck yeah. Far from heaven. We've had other like big exceptions movies like Vanilla Sky.

Australia with our friend Katie Rich. Molly's game. Knives out with our friend Jorge Molina. Pleasantville. Nine. The mirror has two faces. Madonna's WE. We opened that Gucci bag.

We didn't miss. either. Sweetie. So that's, those are exceptions, but we also have on the third Friday of every month an excursion episode. These are deep dives into Oscar ephemera. We love to obsess about on this show. We've done things like EW fall movie previews.

We've recapped old award shows. We've talked about other magazines like the Jennifer Lopez movie line issue where she chocks a lot of shit. Yeah. We do an annual award show. We call the superlatives this month. We did a deep dive into the history of the SAG Awards, and I'm an actor speeches.

That was a lot of fun. It was a good time. We watched a bunch of them. We commented on a bunch of them. What makes a good one? What makes a bad one? But it's a good time. So go sign up to This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance over at patreon.com

slash this had Oscar buzz. Excellent. Excellent. All right, Chris, go do your vocal warm-ups while I let our listeners know the particulars. Baby Bunky Bumper of the French Dispatch. You can prepare to do our 60-second plot description. We are talking about the French dispatch this week. Written and directed by Wes Anderson. Additional story credits go to Roman Coppola, Hugo Guinness, and Jason Schwartzman, starring Deep Breath, Owen Wilson, Benicio Del Toro, Lia Sidu, Adrian Brody, Tony Revely, Tilda Swinton, Bob Balaban, Henry Winkler, Lois Smith, Deni Menoschet, Larry Pine, Francis McDormis, Timothy Chalemy, Linda Kudrie, Christoph, Cecil de France, Rupert, Matthew Al-Malrich, Stephen, Stephen Mark, William DeFoe, Sir Sharon, Edward Norton, Damien Bonnard, Bill Murray, Elizabeth Moss, Jason, Schwarzman, Fisher, Stevens, Griffin, Dunn, narrated by the great Angelica Houston. And it premiered in front of the whole world at the Cannes Film Festival 2021 in competition, then screened at the Telluride and New York Film Festivals before opening limited on October 22nd, 2021, and then opened wide one week later.

Chris, I'm going to pull out the old stopwatch. Are you ready to give me 60 seconds on the French dispatch? I'm ready to give you probably 120 seconds. Well, we'll see how it goes. And ready, begin. All right, the French dispatches an American magazine comprised of stories and articles written by a bunch of expats overseas flights of fancy and culture, but meant for an American audience. When the editor and publisher of the magazine dies, but by his order and final will, the magazine will shudder, publishing a final set of stories that include the following. One, a traveler's guide to the town in which the magazine is published named Anuis surplase, detailing the town is dirty, dangerous, and destitute, but somehow still charming, because French.

Two, a portrait of the artist Moses Rosenthaler jailed for violent assault with a butcher saw. While in prison, Rosenthaler develops an attachment to his guard Simone, who becomes his muse in a series of modern artworks that kept the attention of Julian Cadazio, a fellow captor and future art patron. When Cadizio is released, he shepherds Rosenthaler's art to the world, becoming a sensation. A prison riot occurs, which Rosenthaler holds back, and then gets released, and Simone lives happily wealthy with her child as she'd previously been forced to give up. Three, a student protest occurs with young Zeparelli becoming a de facto leader of when he publishes a manifesto, which has been altered slash revised, last tampered with, slash you take your pick by a journalist writing this story, who, FYI, took Zepirelli's virginity, causing schism among the youth's in result. In a freak accident, Zeparelli dies and becomes the face of the movement mass marketed T-shirts on stickers and the like. Four, a hoaxine chef named Nescafier, caters to the French police. police force when the commissioner's son is kidnapped. The kidnappers are demanding the release of

their accountant currently in custody. Niscafier gets roped in when he's called upon by the kidnappers and the food he makes is poisoned, killing most of the kidnappers except the accountant who eats a non-poisoned omelet. When the child is rescued, Niscafier sacrifices himself, basically by sampling the food first for the criminals, and then tells the journalist Roebuck write that poison mushroom was a unique flavor he had never experienced. The magazine gets published and then it shudders the end. You're almost exactly right, 55 seconds over the time limit. Price's right rules did apply.

Poison radishes, I believe, was the... Radishes? No, but he eats... Willem DeFoe eats an omelet instead without the radishes, I thought. Yeah, but the thing that he poisoned everybody, because that was the thing where the kid didn't like radishes, and that's why the kid didn't eat it. And then at the end, he said... Yeah, I was just saying the food was poisoned.

Right, but the flavor they had never tasted before was a radish, was a poisoned radish. What's interesting about each of these stories is like there's the plot of the story, but even within the story, this is the whole nesting doll thing. Yes. Kind of with the exception of the middle one, right. Francis McDormant is the journalist of. They're still framed in a way that it's like, this isn't just the story. Right. as it was published, this is that journalist recounting the story another time.

It's Tilda Swinton leading some type of art talkback. Yes, yes. Essentially, it's a talkback at a gallery. It's Jeffrey Wright being interviewed on television. Which, can we talk about the like, this is why, I mean, Wes Anderson, they'll never make me hate you. Like, the recreation of the Dick Cavett vibe of that talk show is so wonderful. Joker found dead in a ditch. The, you know, the cigarette, the sort of, you know, the Schreiber takes the perfect tone.

Obviously, Roebuck Wright is inspired by, among others, James Baldwin, sort of heavily. Who gets cited in the credits. Yeah. Oh, we should say. So at the end of the movie, they dedicate the film to a series of real-life journalists. This is somewhere in the, give me a second, because it's actually in the Wikipedia entry. Yes, so dedicated to, and these are writers who were mostly associated with the New Yorker. The New Yorker is like the proximate sort of inspiration here.

Wes Anderson has talked about how much he sort of grew up. up reading that and was inspired by it and whatnot. But Harold Ross William Sean, Rosamond Bernier, Mavis Galant, James Baldwin, A.J. Leibling, S. N. Beerman, Lillian Ross, Janet Flanner, Lucy Sont,

James Thurber, Joseph Mitchell, Walcott Gibbs, St. Clair McHellway, Vedmeta, Brendan Gill, E.B. White, and Catherine White. If I got any of those names pronounced funky, I

have exposed myself as a uncultured a child of the rest of the redoubt. So that's the thing is one of the things I love about Wes Anderson and it's sort of dovetails with my love for somebody like Nora Ephron is this kind of creation of a world that a sort of aesthetic world that, again, may have never quite existed that way, but certainly exists that way in, you know, one's imagination, in one sort of conception. I've always said that I want to live in the Upper West Side of a Nora Ephron movie.

I want to, and, like, Wes Anderson's stuff is even more particular. And it's not like I share in Wes Anderson's specific obsessions, right? Right? Like the things that kind of, you know, inspire him and, you know, the F. Scott Fitzgeraldness of the royal tenem bombs, right? Or the, or obviously, the New Yorkerness of the French dispatch. These are not sort of obsessions that I shared. And yet the purity of the way in which he presents them, I'm like, I wish, it's not just, it's not that I wish I lived in, you know, these. worlds that, you know, his version of the New Yorker sort of exists in is, I wish I grew up with his obsessions, you know what I mean? Like, I wish I, you know, had those enthusiasms. He sort of invites you into, for as much as people talk about how his movies are, you know, distancing, can be distancing from people. I also think they're incredibly inviting in terms of, like, you know, join me in my, you know, particular...

you know, sandbox here, and this one is going to be about, you know, this particular magazine that it grew up loving. I don't know. I find it so charming. I just feel like the whole distance, it's probably for the better that, you know, Wes Anderson, as much as it may seem like that, you know, when a Wes Anderson movie comes out, that he is a universally beloved filmmaker, you know, it's probably for the better that, you know, we have people who are still holdouts on Wes Anderson or that you know 100% absolutely there's always people who are not holdouts but there will always be a faction of people who like his movies that are held out on individual movies you know well yeah and I think some people are just sort of like oh my god I'm I'm so over the whole Wes Anderson thing and I'm like that's fine I would rather that he keeps sort of following his own muse and kind of shedding people who aren't into it anymore because I do feel like there's, I don't feel like he's burrowing into himself. I do feel like. I don't feel like I know who he is is another thing.

Like, I don't know. I think that is true to an extent, but I think especially through maybe the last decade or so of his movies, I think he's letting that stuff out a little bit more. I think Yeah, a picture is being painted, but I don't feel like he's someone who we know all of the life details of the way we do in some other directors. And I think that's good, but I think a movie like particularly Asteroid City, and again, we don't want to talk too much about that, I think Asteroid City speaks more directly to his sort of ethos as an artist than any of his previous films did. I think the French dispatch speaks to his, not just inspirations, but sort of what he admires and values in the act, or a particular act of creation, a particular act of creativity. And then I think something like the Grand Budapest Hotel is probably as political as he's gotten. and it's not like it's this like, you know, particularly complex level of politics.

It's, you know, Europe in the years leading up to World War II and the Nazis or whatever. But it certainly shows, you know, an awareness. I think that in the French dispatch dovetail in that, like, it shows an awareness of a kind of greater political, political reality on a few fronts. I think the French dispatch touches on things like, you know, discrimination with the Roebuck Wright character and sort of the alienation that he feels and that he sort of he has that moment with Nescafier when towards the end,

the part that he was going to cut out of the story where they kind of have that moment of connection over being, you know, outsiders to France. but also to Anui. And obviously, even just like the first sort of, the first story with the artist and Benicio del Toro and whatnot, there's a theme of sort of incarceration in this movie. And it's like, he's not making these grand thesis statements. That's not what you're looking to Wes Anderson for. But he's making, you know, he's sort of peeking into these worlds and he's finding these

sort of idiosyncratic observations to make about these kind of things. I think the segment of the movie that most critics criticized and said, like, you know, didn't work as well, is the middle section, the Francis McDormand, Timothy Shalom segment. And I have my theories as to, you know, why that was sort of singled out as the weakest one. That's the segment that every time I've watched this, I like a little bit more and a little bit more. A lot of people also really don't like the first. segment, which is a little crazy to me because I almost don't stop laughing. It's my least favorite of all of them. I'm sort of one of those people. I, there's a, I like all the Tilda stuff, but like the Benicio del Toro, Leisadu, you know, stuff, I think, I don't know, it feels a little crass. You know how I feel about Leisadu. I do. I understand. I understand people's anger about why is she?

being, why is she being so ogled in that section? It's like, it's clear, I mean, to me, it's like clearly, you know, a twist on the artist already doing that, you know? But physically, I think she gives a very funny performance just in her comedic nuances. I, yeah, yes. My favorite in that segment is Adrian Brody, who I think is tremendously fun. Lois Smith, baby. Well, of course, Lois Smith. And Tilda, with those fucking, like, Joni Mitchell teeth. Everything Tilda does in this movie is so funny.

It's so, she's, you know, not in it very much, but she's, her reaction, obviously, the moment in the presentation when we get the slide of her naked, and she just goes, oh, dear God, like, that's me, is really funny. No, I think the, the Adrian Brody of it, though, It's so funny because he obviously he just won a second Oscar.

He's just finishing up his speech right now. And there was a, you know, one of the things was just sort of, and not without good reason, was this thing of, oh, he won an Oscar 20 some odd years ago. And he hasn't really had the leading man career. He's had so many movies that sort of just like,

what, you know, what are these movies? He sort of took a little bit of like, not the full Nicholas Cage, but he did, you know, he's done a whole succession of movies where it's just like that movie never happened. That was some weird like Red Box, you know, direct to, direct to streaming, whatever, whatever. But if you've been watching Wes Anderson movies, he's been like steadily one of Wes Anderson's MVP's through maybe the last 15 or so years. I really loved him.

And I know Darjeeling Limited is a movie that is. Not one of Wes Anderson's most beloved, but I think Brody is great in that. And I think he's phenomenal in both Grand Budapest and French Dispatch. And then Asteroid City. I fucking love him in that, too. So it's like, where has Adrian Brody been? He's like, he's been in some movies that nobody's watched. But he's also been like a great West Anderson.

He's been a great member of the ensemble. He's been a great member of the ensemble. He's been a great member of the ensemble. Wes Anderson performers. Yeah. I kind of want to talk a little bit about because I feel like we're tiptoeing around some of it or it's like I'm just going to swan dive into this topic.

But I think some of the holdouts for Wes Anderson and, you know, I'm not trying to pass judgment or like tell people what they're thinking. What they're hang up there? But a lot of it is the aesthetics of West Anderson and that's what they come down to. And when someone's like, I just can't with the Wes Anderson thing. or I'm tired of the Wes Anderson thing.

They mean the aesthetics, and they're not really engaging with him as a storyteller. And while I don't think everything in the French Dispatch works, I do think it's an interesting kind of instructive movie about him as a storyteller and his point of view on storytelling. I think Asteroid City is a much better movie in all regards in that fashion, but... They're in conversation with each other. They are. Yeah, yeah, I definitely think that they are of the same, you know, time and space for this director, though.

Like, Asteroid City is so obviously a COVID movie to be about that time. We'll have that conversation when we do that. But there's something really interesting here about the commodification of art and the commodification of storytelling, what the difference between commodifying something. and distilling it down to a storytelling essence is really interesting. I think you kind of see it in all of the stories. Like Timothy Chalamee is taken from being this living, breathing person, young person with potential, and then he becomes a face on T-shirts. And, you know, the most obviously the first story, it's, you know,

that Adrian Brody can't even see Benicio del Toro. art anymore because he's just worried about making money off of it. Right. And things like that. And like even just like the commodification of like these are all visitors to on we. So it's like they're not even, you know, how we as Americans fetishize the nation of France and what French things are and like. But by extension, how we sort of fetishize every sort of like foreign culture, right? And then distill it down to a thing that it is not, you know, shoving aside any type of other nuance as well.

And, like, this is at the point in Wes Anderson's career where it's like the idea of what a Wes Anderson movie is has gone through several different things and several different aesthetic ideas. And to the point where Wes Anderson is on T-shirts, Wes Anderson, you know, is you have books mimicking the Wes Anderson. style that have nothing to do with him. You know, he's an Instagram hashtag now. Right, right. And I do think that while the, you know, a West Anderson movie, I also don't ever really think is one thing. So it's like all these people with Asteroid City, they're like, oh, this is him answering

his critics and that's what the movie is. And I'm like, yes, it is also these three or four other things. Right, right. So it's like as much as the French dispatch is he thinks a love letter to journalist. I also think that it's him on some level reconciling with the Wes Anderson T-shirt and coffee table bookness of what his career has become. I can see that. I can definitely see that. So it's like people who reject it for being an aesthetic exercise. I'm like, well, but he's also still recognizing the, or like reconciling with people thinking he's just an aestheticist. Well, and one of the

things that I love about the way he does reconcile with things like that is it doesn't come off as a polemic or as a screed or as a kind of, you know, declarative statement. I think we're so used to, we've become so used to, I think, with the sort of proliferation of social media and whatever and more people than ever are able to sort of hold court on their feelings on movies or whatever. I've always said that, like, Like, social media is very, very good at helping people point out tropes, but very, very bad at having people sort of interrogate those tropes or sort of process what they mean to a specific movie. Because, you know, just the existence of a thing in a movie does not tell the whole story. You're getting about half the story at best.

And two posts down is yet another small company that, you know, specializes in movie t-shirts, you know? Sure. But I think my point, though, with Anderson is I think we've become so used to seeing filmmakers responding to critics or responding to things that they need. maybe don't love about the way that their art has been, you know, processed or whatever, in these big sort of like all caps declarative ways that are unmistakable, that are very much, you know, a movie sort of, you know, it's ratatooie writing a critic into its story. It's Birdman, you know, having a theater critic being its, you know, biggest, you know, antagonist or whatever. And I think Anderson talks about this stuff without really,

being particularly obviously affronted by it. He kind of just sort of is just like, what's that about? Like, what is, you know, this mean? And let me sort of explore this through, you know, this story and make a connection to, you know, this other story.

And I like that. I like the fact that we don't have the Wes Anderson sort of claps back movie. Yeah. Like this in Asteroid City are, to me, not clapback movies, but I do think in a demonstrative way he is trying to... He's interrogating it. He's poking at it. Make his audience engage with him as a storyteller in, you know, ways that maybe he hasn't pointedly been doing that before. Yeah. But as an audience member, I don't feel like I'm being uprated or...

chastened or or patronized or sort of because I think some of the times like these filmmakers who do make these more declarative things are are kind of slapping back at the audience for caring so much

you know what I mean? Like I think these artists who have to reckon with and these are you know artists with problematic I think of like David Chase and the Sopranos right where at some point the Sopranos became less about telling the story and more about David Chase making sure that his audience knew that they were

fucked up for standing Tony Soprano as much as they did. And it's like, yeah, you're right. But also, like, at some point, I don't, it's not as fun for me to watch. This is like, this is one of my major hangups with how we consume things. Like, just because we obsess over Tony Soprano doesn't mean we think so Tony Soprano is good. This was like, this was one of the things that made me so angry about how Succession was, like, criticized by a lot of people who didn't watch it, that they're like, how can you watch a show about people that are like X? And it's like, well, we obsess about it because it's good writing, not because these are people who are modeled after, you know, active villains in our real world. Yeah. I do think it was different with the Sopranos, not to like, you know, go on a tangent, but I do feel like there was a.

size of a portion. Oh, like there was an audience of men who were like, yeah, I want to kill people. I watched the Sopranos in college. And like, I definitely was familiar with how much people watched the Sopranos for like the, you know, to revel in the mob violence and whatnot, of course. Like, that had to be worse was

Breaking Bad, though. Like, Breaking Bad was embraced by an audience that really just was not interrogating that show in any means. But I think that was a much smaller segment of the Breaking Bad audience. Breaking Bad, you really had to want it to watch Breaking Bad and to be like Walter White fucking rules.

Like that show was not in any way ambiguous about what it was doing with Walter. And at a very early point, he became completely indefensible. And I think you, again, I think one of the things that got ugly about Breaking Bad was the way in which a vocal minority of that show's fan base was so against the wife character because she eventually, like, turned on Walter and she, you know, rebelled against him and whatever. And it was, first of all, one super sexist, two, completely misguided. But also, it is the function of having a character in the show whose POV is, um, we shouldn't have. have this show. You know what I mean? Whose POV is, you should stop doing that thing that you're doing. But if, like, he stops doing the thing that he's doing, then the show is over. So, like, people want the show to keep going. People want him to keep dealing drugs because, like, that's how we keep having a show. People seriously just, like, tell on themselves with how they interpret things. And I'm sure I've told on myself as a pretentious person in how I've interpreted some things. But, you know, what you're saying about Breaking Bad reminds me, have you ever as a gay guy,

had the disillusionment of, like, of course, we obsessed over, like, our teachers. We loved our teachers, you know, when we were growing up. But then you had the teacher that, like, reveals themselves as, like, bad. You shouldn't, like, love that teacher, you know. The way gay guys are like, we love our English teacher so much. Thank you, Miss Whatever, for shaping me as a young person. Like, that thing? Yes.

I had a teacher in high school who was talking about. talking to me about Mystic River and exposed herself as one of those because she was talking about Marcia Gayharden, like she was an agent of the devil for telling on her husband who she thought killed someone. And she's like, she should take that to her grave. If my husband was a murderer, I would never tell anyone. And it's like, are you kidding me? A real Laura Linney. Are you kidding me? You're dealing with a real Laura Linne. You're saying Marcia Gay is a bad woman. Granted. Granted, the truth of Mystic River is that he did not kill anyone. That is true. But you're saying Marcia Gay is a bad woman because she thinks her husband's a murderer and does something about it? I don't think so. I love this conflict that you had at age. How old were you when Mystic River came out?

I was in high school. In high school, yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. All right. So I want to double back to the prologue, though, because... Yes. One of the things that I wrote down was best Wes Anderson prologues. And I think it's this one and Tenenbaum's are like neck and neck.

I do think Tenen Bombs is my favorite. I don't think the Tenenbombs is just not touchable. It's sublime. It's so good. But I think this one does a really good job of, you know, of setting the table for this. I think this is, in very much a way that, like, it's the table of contents, right? It's your, you know, it's your very front of the book. Angelica Houston does the voiceover.

First of all, it has a great opening line with, it began as a holiday. Like, ah, my God. But also then, you see this waiter assembling, and it's, again, it's very sort of Wes Anderson commenting on themselves, too, very meticulously assembling this tray. I'm like, it, this, there is no wasted space on this tray. It's a tray of refreshments. The oyster shot. The oyster shot is so disgusting. But it's, um, but it's this, this tray of refreshments for Howitzer that he then has to carry

up like 20 stories up. And you see Bill Murray eat that oyster. You do. But it's, it's so, I, I, every time I watch it, I want to just pause and just sort of like take in everything that's on this tray. But while he's assembling this, the Angelica Houston is giving the voiceover for sort of how the picnic magazine insert for the Liberty, Kansas evening star, evolved into the French dispatch. And it's this very sort of charming story about this, you know, son of a newspaper owner who went to, went to France to, you know, take a year abroad, essentially, and never came back and just sort of stayed there.

And Howitzer is so Midwest-coded as a character. So he also then, like, it's striking that he exists in this, you know, French, you know, context. Because inside the walls of this office, right, it is very sort of much a Midwestern sort of newspaper magazine aesthetic, right? where he's got his, you know, his team of editors, the sort of, I, the way in which they, like, actually gaggle in the room is so funny to me when they'll mention, you know, well, Berenson's, or whatever, Kremence's article was, she was assigned to 2,500 words. She came back with 14,000, plus N notes and a bibliography and blah, blah, relatable. And howitzer just goes, it's one of her best. And, and then they all go like, garble, garble, garble, garble, garble, garble, we can't financially support Berenzen, yeah.

Another double issue. Well, and like Elizabeth Moss as the like sort of, you know, a voice of reason for all of us. And she's introduced as, you know, the premier sort of grammarian of the, and they show her at a chalkboard, like diagramming a sentence down to like 15 levels or whatever. She replaced Kate Winslet at the last minute, which is interesting because... It's not a big role. Lizzie Moss, yeah, not a big role, but she's in maybe three shots of the movie. She makes sense in a Wes Anderson movie.

I don't know if Winslet makes sense in the West Anderson world. Is Winslet in Phoenician scheme, though? Because there's a couple new people in the Phoenician scheme. Hold on. Let me look this up. Um Let's see Kest

New folks Michael Sarah Sarah hasn't been in like Grand Budapest or something I don't think he has I believe Richard Iowade is new I believe Charlotte Gainsbourg is new Um

Who is Mia Threpleton? Oh, she's Kate Winslet's daughter. Okay, so that's where it is. There it is. Okay. It's Kate Winslet's daughter isn't this? Okay.

Interesting. As a major character. I'm excited for this movie. Of course I am. And Riz Ahmed. She got up his sleeve. Riz Ahmed is new to the Wes Anderson idiom, right? Yes.

I believe. So anyway. See, the thing about West Anderson, and we can't talk about this movie just yet, because we'll loop back when we talk about the awards. of it in the reception of this movie. You can never tell who is new to Wes Anderson anymore because there's always Isle of Dogs. Well, that is...

Isle of Dogs is like the skeleton key of Wes Anderson movies. Because that's where Scarlett Johansson joined the group. Greta Gerwig is a voice in that, and I don't think has recurred as yet. Who else was new in that? Wait, did you say Cranston hasn't recurred? Cranston's in Asteroid City. He opened the Asteroid City. No, I said Gerwig hasn't recurred.

Oh, no. She's busy. Yes, very. And I think was I Love Dogs, Leah F. Shriver's first. I think he's in Grand Budapest. Maybe. But anyway, one of the people who was new to the Wes Anderson verse. in French Dispatch was Christoph Valtz,

who is in this movie for a grand total of, I want to say 30 seconds, as the unwanted date for Cremence, for Francis McDormand, who, that's one of my favorite things of that middle segment, is her insistence that just because she's alone, it's this idea of like her, you know, alone versus low. lonely sort of thing.

Right. And she is maybe both, but she is also, you know, she has her career and she's, you know, she doesn't need them to fix her up with dumb Christoph Waltz. But anyway, so this is somewhat ignominiously our sixth Christoph Waltz movie. It is, comes after Tulip Fever, which was our second episode ever. Big Eyes, Carnage, Water for Elephants. downsizing, and now the French Dispatch. In every single one of those movies, he is in some way or another just an awful prospect for partnership.

He is the domineering yet cuckolded husband in both tulip fever and water for elephants. He is an ethically bankrupt husband in both big eyes and carnage. He is a nightmare of a bachelor in downsizing, and he is a dreaded, probably not as, you know, bad as these other characters in the French dispatch. But he certainly is somebody who Francis McDormann wants no part of. So he definitely has become a type. What do we, before we embark upon the Six-Timer's quiz, where are we with Christoph Valtz just as a presence in film in 2025? I, unfortunately, I'm sure he's a lovely man.

Yeah. I am never happy to see him anymore. Same. I'm always unhappy, displeased to see him. I... The stain is still here. The stain will be removed. We maybe have to start casting him differently slash more appropriately.

Even just sort of just like, give me something new. I, you know, I think he's tremendous and inglorious bastards. There is, um, there, you know, he's quite deservedly won that Academy Award. I think he's good in Django Unchains. Would I have given him that Oscar? Absolutely not. First of all, I think it's category fraud, because I do think he's the lead. But I also feel like even among that, even among the people who he's nominated against,

I'd have given Hoffman that award before him. I'd have given Tommy Lee Jones the award before him. Probably not Arkin or De Niro. But I just think winning a second Oscar was so unnecessary. And it's, of course, not his fault that he won a second Oscar for that. But it did sort of change my perception now because I'm just like, all right, two-time Oscar winner. Like, you know, what are we, what are we bringing to a movie like water? Two-time Oscar winner who's like ceased to be cast interestingly in anything.

Yeah. Yeah. What has been, what have been his most recent movies even? Like, I feel like he's even just sort of like faded into the background of like, let me bring up his filmography very quickly. So, obviously, this is the other thing. If you've ever tried to put Christoph Valtz in a Cinematrix, you have to just sift through a whole bunch of, you know, European films that you've never heard of before. That are, like, entirely unavailable in the States. So he's going to be in Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

A movie that I'm like, okay. I'm excited. What is, you are not excited for either of the Frankenstein. movies and I want to dig into this a little bit. We don't need another Frankenstein, just like we don't need another Pinocchio. Like, I don't know. I would like to see, I would like to see Guillermo del Toro do something original again. I mean, Nightmare Alley was original. I just didn't like it. It wasn't original. It was an original. Nobody knew what the original Alley was. It was original enough. Oh, I guess he was in the Bonds. Right. He was in, he was Blofeld in. Oh, and he's bad in the Bonds. He's not good in those. And then, so he was in a movie called... That's the other thing. He's not in interesting roles, and he's also bad in a lot of things. He was in that Walter Hill Western dead for a dollar that nobody saw. Um, he was in, he was a voice in Guillermo

Pinocchio. He's in, he was in a movie, this Australian movie called The Portable Door. So he's just like been kind of avoiding. He was in a Simon West movie called Old Guy, um, with Lucy Lou and Cooper Hoffman, um, about, about an assassin, a contract killer. What the fuck is going on? What is going on with these? And so now he's going to be in, uh, Guillermo. Chris so Fault's tweeting, what's going on with my career. And then he's going to be, oh, God, Chris, are you sitting, you are sitting down. Um, he is apparently going to be, has it begun filming? Yes, it did begin filming. literally oh no it filmed last year um a luke bason movie a luke bason dracula movie with christop vaults and

kaleb landry jones is dracula i'm gonna burn the film prints of this movie to the ground there will be no dcp um oh see another thing about christoph waltz you know he loves working with a canceled director loves it's true True. It's true. It's a favorite hobby of his. You've never seen Rifkin's Festival, the Woody Allen movie that he made in exile, starring among others. Gina Gershahn, Wallace Sean, Tammy Blanchard, Steve Gutenberg, Richard Kind. Wow. It's a lot of people. All right. Anyway, six Christoph Waltz movies, Tulip Fever, Big Eyes, Carnage, Water for Elephants, Downsizing, and Now the French Dispatch.

are custom, I will now give Chris a quiz of these, where the answers are one or more of these six movies. It's fun. It's zippy. Let's get down to it. Which of those six movies is the longest? Downsizing. Very much so. In 135 minutes, which is the shortest. Carnage. Very much so, 80 minutes. Which had the best Rotten Tomato score? No, it's not big guys. French Dispatch. French Dispatch, 75%. Big Eyes has a better Rotten Tomatoes score than you would think, but yes.

Worst Rotten Tomatoes. Downsizing? No. Waterfail offense. No. Damn. Carnage, I think, is fresh. So I guess that leaves big guys.

Nope. Damn. Carnage. No. literally the last movie, which is water... No, I said Water for Elephants. What's the sixth movie? This is why I encourage you to write these down.

Sorry, I thought I had them all, but when I get in this type of situation, I forget what the... It's tulip fever. Tulip fever. Duh, Tulip fever. 10% tulip fever. Tulip fever. You, especially nowadays, you can only really get those severe low numbers if there is something sort of in the water that has given everybody a permissible. to really just, like, dump on a movie.

Yeah. And that movie's, you know, production nightmares were definitely reason. Which of these six movies had the biggest domestic box office take? Water for Elephants? Yes, 58.7 million, which was the lowest box office take? Tulip fever. Tulip fever, 2.4 million, which was just a scotch under Carnage, which was 2.5 million. Um, all right, which two of these movies were written by Oscar winners for screenplay?

Ooh, um, not the French dispatch. Correct. Um, Big Eyes is written by Alexander and Karzuski. I don't think they have an Oscar. They do not. Um, uh, Downsizing, Alexander Payne.

Yep, Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor, who won for Sideways. This other one is one of the two credited screenwriters as an Oscar winner. Tulip Fever, because it's... Stoppard? It is Tom Stoppard. Very good, who's a screenplay winner for Shakespeare in Love. Which two of these movies were written by Golden Globe winners for screenplay? I'm going to assume by the...

the question that they are different. One of them is. Tulip Fever. Yep. Stoppard also won the Golden Globe for Shakespeare and Love. And the French dispatch. No. Wes Anderson has never won a Golden Globe.

So not downsizing. I'll say Big Eyes. Yes. Alexander and Karziewski won the Golden... Can I guess the movie? Yes. People versus Larry Flint. They won the screenclays for the People versus Larry Flint.

Very good. Which two of these movies were written by Tony Award winners? A tulip fever. Yep, Tom Stoppard. And Richard LaGrovanese, I thought, was the writer on Water for Elephants. Don't think Alexander and Karazuski have a Tony. Payne doesn't have a Tony. Wes Anderson doesn't have a Tony.

So that leaves the other one. the other one which is I literally was just listing all Carn, oh, it's Carnage, it's Carnage, it's Carnage, who is? Yasmina Reza. Yasmina Reza, very good. I had written down here that Francis Lawrence

was the writer of Waterfellons, and I was like, that doesn't seem right, and it is not, you're right? That it is Richard Lagravenet, so, thank you, but anyway, yes. Okay, Richard Legravene is not a Tony winner. Okay, which two of these movies were composed by, had scores composed by Danny Elfman. Not the French Dispatch.

Nope. Big Eyes. Yep. And... The old Tim Burton connection. Actually, I think it's downsizing. It's not. Not downsizing.

Water for elephants? Nope. Carnage. Um, yes. No. Sorry. No, not carnage. Tulip fever.

Tulip fever. There we go. Danny Elfman. All right. Which movie has the same cinematographer as the Irish That's Rodrigo Prieto, who I think did Water for Elephants. Yes, he did. Very good. Yeah, there we go.

Which movie has the same cinematographer as Ford versus Ferrari? That's, uh, Fade and Papa Michael, that is downsizing. Yes, very good. God, I would have never been able to get that. Um, which movie has the same composer as the village? that's who's the shamalan guy is that henry gregson williams nope but you're right on the three-name thing oh god um who's the other three-nameer

I'm gonna guess it's water for elephants it is it's James Newton Howard there you go yeah which two of these movies have the same composer as Lust Caution. Mm. A fave. It's awful that I can remember all this for... For Water for Elephant. Is it Michael Dana?

It's not Michael Danna. And I love The Hous Caution score. Like, that's a score I listen to. How embarrassing. Is it... Marianelli? It's not. I mean, Ang Lee, I thought, usually works with Michael Danna.

It's not Gustavo Santolololalla. It's not. Is it tulip fever, whatever the movie? It's not tulip fever. Two answers and neither one. Oh, no, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the French dispatch. And it's two movies. It's French dispatch and.

Oh, he did carnage. Carnage as well. Yes, very good. Which two of these movies played at the Venice Film Festival? Not big guys, not the French Dispatch. Downsizing. Yes. And Carnage. Yes. Which movie opened during Virgo season? The worst season to open your movie in. Tulip Fever. It is Tulip Fever. September 1st. Talk about a cursed release date. September 1st. Can you imagine a more cursed Labor Day weekend, good Lordy. Which two movies were filmed primarily in France?

The French Dispatch. Yes, which is so funny because, like, it does not need to be filmed on location. Because it's so much studio. Yeah, yeah. The tulip fever? No. That's definitely giving shot in Serbia. Big eyes?

Because doesn't Burton live in France? No, but think about it for a second. Which other movie would be filmed in France? Carnage. Carnage. For legal reason. Filmed in exile. Yeah, which movie was filmed primarily in the UK?

Big eyes. No. Tulip fever. Tulip fever primarily in the UK. Which two movies were filmed primarily in Canada? Water for elephants? No. Um, downsizing.

Yes. Didn't they shoot that in like Banff? Uh, yes. I think it was multiple locations, but a lot of them, most of them are incanted. Tulip, fever. No, that was the UK. Son of a bitch. Then, not carnage. Big Eyes.

Big Eyes. I think Big Eyes did the Vancouver for San Francisco thing. Oh, yeah. Which movie was filmed primarily in California? Water for elephants? Water for elephants, yes. Okay, which two of these movies didn't get any Golden Globe nominations. Four of them did, two of them did not. Tulip Fever.

Correct. And I guess by default water for elephants, but I would have guessed that got like a score or something. It sure didn't. Nope, nothing for water for elephants. Elephants. Which two of these movies were Bafta nominees for production design? French dispatch. Yes. And downsizing? No. Big eyes. Big eyes. Um, I'm going to double check that because downsizing does seem like it would have. No. Okay. Um, uh, R BAFTA. Okay. Which of these movies was a SAG Award nominee?

Um, Saga Award, meaning it was nominated for a performance. Acting. It's not the French dispatch. It's not tulip fever. It's downsizing? Yes. Who? Yeah. Hong Chow. Very good. Which of these movies had three teen choice nominations? Water for Elephants. Water for Elephants. Robert Pattons and baby. Which movie was an Art Directors Guild nominee? French Dispatch.

No. Downsizing. Downsizing. There's Downsizing's art direction. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include bully, cleaning shows, and title spoken by character? Cleaning shoes. Sorry. Downsizing.

Uh, no. Cleaning shoes. Bullie, cleaning shoes, and title spoken by character. Cleaning shoes? Big eyes? No. Why would one need to clean one's shoes? Oh, because of barf? Carnage?

They don't say carnage. Yes. He says, I believe in a god. Look at all this carnage. He says, I believe in a god of carnage, right? Oh, right. Yeah. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include extramarital affair, woman on top,

sex and property speculation. Water for elephant. No. Great. Tulip fever. Tulip fever. Multiple keywords refer to. There's a keyword that's woman on top sex, and one of them is like a cowgirl position sex.

Like, IMDB, crazy. They're like, do you believe it? They have sex where the woman's on top. It's nuts. What will they think of next? What will they think of next? Which two movies feature stars of The Batman? Um, Waterfrey Elephants.

Mm-hmm. Patinson. And, I guess, uh, the Batman, in addition to Robert Pattinson, has Paul Dano, Soit Kravitz, uh, Colin Farrell, Gary, not Gary Oldman. Who's Commissioner Gordon? Oh, Jeffrey Wright. It's the French despot. There you go. Uh, which two movies feature stars of kinds of kindness. Okay Uh, downsizing for hung chow.

Yep. And Is Joe Alwyn in tulip fever? No, but he does seem like he would be, right? Um, because my fear is that it's tulip fever, and I don't know why. Um, Hmm. Who's in kinds of cutness?

Marker Qualley, Emma Stone. Jesse Plemons. Oh, Willem DeFoe, the French Disp. There you go. Yep. Which, okay, this one's hard. Which two movies feature stars of Jason Bourne? Well, one of these is hard.

Alicia V. Kander, Tulip Fever? Yes. Matt Damon downsizing? Yeah. How do you know that Alicia V.cander is in Jason Bourne? I would have, if you gave me one million guesses, I would have never gotten that. Of who the lady is? Jason Bourne doesn't, like, does not have any space in my memory, and I definitely saw that movie.

Um, which two movies feature stars of Miss Pedigrew lives for a day? Amy Adams is in Big Eyes. Francis McDormand is in the French dispatch. Very good. Which movie opened the same weekend as Into the Woods? So Christmas. Um, that's downsizing. No.

Okay. Big Eyes. Big Eyes. Also at Christmas release. Which movie opened the same weekend as Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol? That is also Christmas. time. That is Mission Impossible.

I can never tell these movies apart. Ghost Protocol is the Birch Khalifa. Yes. Okay. So that is also Big Eyes? No. Are you tricking me? No. Okay. I'm not tricking you. Carnage.

Carnage. Yes. 2011. Which movie opened the same weekend as Dune Part 1? The French Dispresent. The French dispatch. Very good. You're Christoph Walt's six-timers quiz. Well done. When I was compiling our outline for this episode, that's when I realized the Walt's six-timers happened because I was like, this is so many names. We're going to have multiple six-timers quizzes for this movie. And it was just Crystal. It was just Christoph Waltz, but it got a lot of people up to the brink. Objectively hilarious that this is the movie that got him there. Objectively. As I said in our text thread, I was like, this fucking technicality ass. I want to talk very briefly, not briefly, this is, we should talk about this, about Wes Anderson's history with the Oscars. Because it's one of those things we've talked about it

a little bit before about how I find myself, and this is not an original thought, other people who have this thought as well. I'm so incredulous that so many of his movies have gotten so few nominations. And then the one movie, the Grand Budapest Hotel, got like 10 nominations more? Nine. Nine. It tied for most nominations with Birdman,

tied for most wins with Birdman. Right. Both won four. And again, I rewatched Grand Budapest Hotel a couple years ago for, I did a Wes Anderson performance ranking for Vulture. And I ended up really coming around on that movie in a way that, like, I was very nonplicated. when I first saw that movie, and I was just, like, not sure what I made of it.

And I was really not sure why this was the movie that the Oscars Lash Tancho. I'm still not entirely sure, except for the fact that, like, if you go by that old canard of, like, the Oscars will just, like, go for the World War II movie every time. And, like, the Grand Budapost Hotel is the closest thing that Wes Anderson has to a World War II. It's his biggest grocer, too, if I remember correctly. Yes. So money is a thing. And that spring, when that movie opened, it was like a wasteland. And that movie made real money.

Yeah, that makes sense. And then the other sort of mystifying thing is with all those nominations, they couldn't find space for Ray Fines and Best Actor, which is so sweet. Wild. Wild. So obviously, Bottle Rocket is Anderson's first movie. Not a surprise that that did not get Oscar nominations, but it did get, you know, sort of the requisite indie spirits.

I believe it won best feature at the Indy Spirits, or am I wrong? I am wrong. It didn't get any indie spirit nominations. It got the, it got the MTV award. That's what it was. It's surprising, though, that the indie spirits didn't give it anything. Rushmore is a big step up. The thing about Rushmore and the Oscars, because that didn't get any Oscar nominations,

but it, like, Bill Murray was very heavily, heavily in that supporting actor race. And probably the biggest nomination snub of that year, I think, is probably Bill Murray. Mm-hmm. He, this one definitely, he was a nominee at the Golden Globes. This one, Wes Anderson, does win Best Director at the Independent Spirits, and Bill Murray won Best Supporting Actor there. And again, no Oscar nominations there. Then comes his first nomination, which is for the Royal Tenen Bombs,

for, gets a screenplay nomination, him and Owen Wilson. Now, this is sort of, of where I start to scratch my head because obviously this movie is on the Oscar's radar. And we, you know, there's the thing with the Oscar nominations where the nominations are all voted on by branch. So the same people who are nominating the screenplay are not the same people who are voting for things like art direction or costume design. But it does, it does, right. And of course, certainly there are so many. I understand the idea that like there's so many performances that are firing on all cylinders in the Royal Tendom bombs that certainly at least on a supporting level, I can understand maybe not finding a way to single out any.

Hackman, who was a Golden Globe nominee, not getting a best actor nomination, and not only not getting a best actor nomination, but like not even getting close, you know what I mean? even for a you know for somebody who won the golden globe he was never really considered a close runner-up for best actor in 2000 he could have been sixth or seventh because the actor lineup is denzil wisconsin for the training day for will smith for allie this is the bad one sean penn i am sam and then it's is this michael kane in fifth slot no that's It's 2002. Fifth slot in 2001 is Tom Wilkinson. Of course. Of course. My winner in that category. But like that five is pretty solid. I believe SAG. I am Sam is the late breaking one there. Yes. But SAG didn't nominate Hackman either. Sag nominated and give me half a second and I'll work this up. I'd be willing to bet that Gene Hackman didn't really do any campaigning. No. Well, he sort of was famously sort of not fond of Wes Anderson. They've talked about that. They did a anniversary screening at the New York Film Festival one year where a bunch of the cast was there, including Bill Murray. And Bill Murray, who is also, you know, famously not the nicest guy, but but is fond of Wes Anderson. And so, and Murray was very, very open about how unfur friendly, Hackman was, and about how specifically Hackman had no time for Wes Anderson. And

sort of, Wes Anderson kind of coward in fear of him. Oh, no, Sean Penn was a SAG nominee. So it was, SAG was... So was Dakota Fanning. Russ. Right. That's right. Russell, Denzel, Tom Wilkinson, Sean Penn. Will Smith was not nominated. Was nominated was Kevin Klein for Life as a House. So, and I think also Hayden Christensen would have been nominated, because I think Christensen got SAG and Globe. nominations. Anyway, but so particularly with, with tenen bombs, though, when it comes to things like art direction, how that movie is not an art direction nominee, that movie, which sort of announces itself as essentially like a floor plan for this townhouse again. Famously, I lived down

the street from the Royal Tenenbaum's house for a period of time in New York City. Every single time I walked past it. I just sort of like, you know, you sort of take it in. It's incredible. There are shots in that movie where you can see my old department building. It's wonderful. But anyway, and I wonder if there was some degree of institutional resentment, which is odd because it's not like Wes Anderson was the nominee for art direction, right? Like the people who did the art direction and the costumes are people who have worked in the industry. So like I don't entirely understand why year after year and film after film would the, the exception of the Grand Budapest Hotel, every single time

the thing that is sort of most spotlit in this movie is snubbed. And again, we're not talking about a votership, which tends to turn up their noses at the obvious, right?

Like, it's not like they don't nominate movies that have very obvious art direction or very obvious costumes. You know what I mean? Like, the idea of best equals most exists, you know, for a reason. So it's not like, I don't buy the idea that like, well, the movies are so much about art direction that maybe there's, you know, some pushback.

And it's like, I don't buy that. So just like I don't understand what the problem is. Well, I think when you're talking about that era of Oscar craft nominations, you're talking about a moment when, sure, Royal Tenenbaum's is heightened, but it would probably most comfortably sit in contemporary as the, like, designator, and, like, contemporary nominations were very hard to come by in terms of costume design nomination, art direction nominations. It was just not happening at that time. That is fair, and I think that's probably the best indicator. So I just sort of, let's, to take a little bit of a quick tour, without,

you know, diverting us too much. But so 2001, your art direction nominees, which is the year of the Royal Tenant Bonds. 2001, your Art Direction nominees are Mu'an Rouge wins for Catherine Martin. Obviously, Catherine Martin doesn't lose Oscars. Let's, we'll say that. Unless it's for Elvis. Aline Bonetto for Amelie,

Stephen Altman for Gosford Park, Stuart Craig for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer Stone, and Grant Major for Lord of the Rings, the Fellowship of the Ring. It's a pretty solid lineup. I would drop kick Amelie out of there, but I don't like that movie. same, but you understand why that got

an art direction nomination. So Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings these vast undertakings of creating these, you know, worlds from the books or whatever. Moulin Rouge is, you know, sort of self-evidently impressive. Gosford Park is impressive in that very sort of way that the Oscars tend to really like.

You know, you are sort of outfitting this great sort of you know, English country estate, right? So yes, that makes sense. You go into your next West's movie, which is The Life Aquatic with Steve Zisu, so that's

2004. And again, we did an episode on that. They build this, you know, this seafaring vessel, right? I believe that movie was shot at Chinichita. I believe you. Aviator wins,

Dante Freddie. huge, huge favorite of the art direction branch. Other nominees are, see, okay, here's where. Finding Neverland, Lemony Snicket's a series of unfortunate events, the Phantom of the opera, a very long engagement. So again, Aileen Bonetto is back for a very long engagement. Finding Neverland, as it is in most categories, I don't, I don't get it. What the fuck is going on there? I'm sorry. I get the Lemony Snicket thing again. You are creating. Yes. Phantom of the Opera, I wouldn't have nominated it, but I do understand, I do feel like a lot of that art direction is underwhelming in that movie, particularly given the expectation of that. I remember so little of a very long engagement that I cannot speak on it with any kind of authority. But like, I'm sorry. And I know that the Life Aquatic was, you know, sort of rejected out of hand by a lot of people. but on a craft level

What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Because like Phantom of the Opera was also kind of rejected out of hand, although it got a handful of nominations. So 2007 is Darjeeling Limited, which was even more dismissed out of hands or whatever. But just for posterity's sake, Sweeney Todd won that year, another Dante Ferretti win. American gangster nominated, Atonement nominated, the Golden Compass nominated, there will be blood nominated. Um, your next Wes movie after that

is Fantastic Mr. Fox. I understand that like nominating an animated movie for production design is not done often. Um, but... Costume design is the thing they always throw out for Fantastic Mr. Fox and I am on board. Well, 100, well, this is, so this is the other thing. It's not just production design. It's also, you know, a costume design, which again,

Tenen bombs would have been a hugely, you know, a deserving one. So Fantastic Mr. Fox costume design year. So that's what, 09. So costume design in 09 is Young Victoria wins, Sandy Powell. I already have two of these. Right. Janet Patterson for Bright Star. Thank God, Bright Star, got something.

Catherine Leterrier for Coco before Chanel, Monique Prudom for the Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassas and Colleen Atwood for nine. again, I understand that, like, because you put the designer's name in the title of the movie, people feel like they have to nominate it. And also the fact that Colleen Atwood is there, people feel like they have to nominate her. I would boot out both. The strands of pearls in nine. Like, what are we talking about?

This is a joke out of here. Ajean provocateur bras. Yeah. Right, right. Okay. So fantastic Mr. Fox, certainly, you know, worthy of a, uh, uh, uh, over that um moonrise kingdom in 2012 which again the crown jewel to me you think so i mean i mean until asteroid city yes i mean this is also the one that i'm like this is the the most

standalone like stand alone in that you know there is an aesthetic to west anderson sure but like sure this you know the the the inspirations for this movie feel like drawn out of like mid-century children's books, you know, like, it's so, I think, unique in the West Anderson filmography of its very specific aesthetic. It's also kind of the last hurrah to this point, at least, for exteriors, West Anderson exterior location shooting. So costume nominees that year, Jacqueline Durant, won for... Joe, I don't know what you're talking about.

They built that beach on set. Costume design nominees that year, Jacqueline Durand won for Anna Kurnina, also... Paco Delgado for Le Miz, Joanna Johnston for Lincoln, Iko Ishioka posthumously for Mirror and Colleenettewood for Snow White and the Huntsman. Again, I put Moonrise Kingdom over at least two or three of those. I think Le Miz and Lincoln can probably get the boot in favor of Moonrise there. And then your production design nominees, Lincoln wins. Also, Anna Kronina, which is incredible production.

Anna Kronina is doing things on production design that Wes Anderson has repeatedly kind of not been, you know, not been honored for, right? Sort of creating these kind of interior environments, whatever. The Hobbit, an unexpected journey. Get the fuck out of here. We've honored Middle Earth enough. Le Maiz, once again, get the fuck out of here. And Life of Pie, which is such an odd nomination for production design when most of it is on a raft, you know. And so much of it is virtual production design.

Right, right. But this is after, you know, Avatar has already won an Oscar for virtual production design. Then we have Grand Budapest Hotel, which as we've mentioned, gets nominated in all of these categories. Isle of Dogs, which is not very well regarded and is probably the least of Wes's movies, even though. And yet gets the same exact nominations that, two nominations, that fantastic Mr. Foxx. Scott. Yeah. I love dogs, again, a second watch that improved upon my first watch, but still is not, is my favorite point. It's the, it sets the stage for the French dispatch because, let's not forget, French dispatch was delayed an entire year because of COVID. It was one of the movies that said,

we are not opening until, we will not see the light of day until theaters are back open, basically. Right. And people really didn't like Isle of Dogs, even. even though it's Rotten Tomatoes score will shock you, given the, I think, tenor around the taste for that movie? Isle of Dogs was the movie that finally allowed people to have a righteous reason for not liking Wes Anderson in addition to sort of an aesthetic reason. There are sort of charges of cultural appropriation and sort of glibness that can apply to Isle of Dogs that are harder to stick.

And I think sometimes, which isn't to say that those criticisms are in any way either inaccurate or even insincere. But I do feel like, again, the way that social media has shaped our film discussion, that a lot of people feel incredibly comfortable being sort of vehemently against a movie when they have what is perceived as a righteous reason to do so.

You know what I mean. And it didn't help that I think Isle of Dogs is genuinely not good. It's his least, it's the least of his movies. It's entirely unfocused. You can kind of tell that by the billion characters that it has. It has a few really, really good bright spots, though, I will say. And that is not something I would have said before I saw it a second. Well, one of them is the de plas score.

Well, yes. But there's also even just like, I think there's a Harvey Kytel monologue in there that's just really good. There's some stuff in there. There really is. I think Edward Norton is tremendous. Like Edward Norton's vocal performance in that is tremendous. So 2021 now we're here at French Dispatch. So you're...

We waited a whole year for this movie. We were told before lockdowns that this movie was going to be playing can. Do you feel like in the weirdo 20s, 20 year, if we had had something like the French dispatch, that at least, even if it didn't get released in theaters, however they would have found a way to release it, feels like a movie, just, you know, grab it with both hands, a movie. In a year where we were nominating things like, I care a lot and, you know, pieces of a woman and, you know, whatever, that would this have been a year to be like, well, look at, our choices are limited. We have a Wes Anderson

movie here. Maybe we'll look at it differently. Maybe we'll be more appreciative for what we have because we don't have, you know, we're not living in a time of abundance. Or do you think it would have been subject to a lot of the same sort of mixed reception and subject to the same sort of ignoring by rewards folks? Well, the thing is French dispatch is a searchlight movie, so it's owned by Disney. They're, you know, the, the only reason this ultimately probably wasn't dumped to Hulu is Anderson's stature and ability to have that negotiating power.

But like Nomad Land was a Hulu premiere, technically. You know what I mean? Ploy Chow hadn't had an Oscar yet, you know? But what I'm saying is Nomad Land, because of the circumstances, I think, did not have as difficult of a time sort of presenting as something Oscar-worthy. And I'm not saying West Anderson was wrong

for insisting on what he insisted on. But I just wonder, like, what happens in the, in the alternate universe where it is a 2020 movie. I mean, like, yes, we have, you know, while a lot of the things that did ultimately get nominations, if not even Oscar nominations, were inferior to this movie, at least inferior when you're mentioning movies, like, I care a lot. It's definitely inferior to it. The Billy Holiday movie, the trial of Chicago 7, even though I kind of like that movie.

I was okay with the Billy Holiday. Well, I was, I love. I love to Andrew Day. The movie has problems. The movie's a mess. But I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I still think that this is a movie that would not have been received well at that moment. Okay. I don't think... I don't think you're wrong.

I don't think just because it's this big splashy movie, it ultimately gets more Oscar nominations. I think, I think, like, even when the movie was released, we weren't really reconciling with this movie well, you know? the way that so many people just kind of either dismiss this movie or people had active problems with it I wonder if they would feel

as strongly today And you can kind of get what Anderson is on about better today I feel like I did because it's like the whole idea and I guess this goes back to the commodification

theme running through this movie is you know one of the things said in Murray's character's obituary is he brought he brought France to the world or he brought the world to Kansas I think that's the line

he brought the world to Kansas so the idea of well you can commodify something for an audience that maybe doesn't get to have a certain type of experience there is life outside your zip code I think we are

maybe more willing to accept that on its face now yeah than we were at the time, even though it's like we're making, you know, banging pots and pans for medical workers in London, you know, go viral in America, you know. Yeah. I think it's something we're maybe thinking about more. What is the value of people seeing, seeing that, you know, there's real things happening or maybe there's silly things happening. outside of my bubble, you know, recognizing your global neighbors better than, you know, you might otherwise.

So the Kraft nominations this year, this was definitely, we are headlong into the era of the Best Picture nominees dominating the Kraft Awards. This year, I remember when I did one of those, the nominations by the numbers thing for Vanity Fair that year. and where the nominations are announced and I spend the rest of that day just sort of crunching numbers left and right. And so one of the stats that I had arrived at, which I thought was pretty striking, was I think it was the first time ever

that the production design nominees and the cinematography nominees were the exact same five movies. It's Dune, Nightmare Alley, The Power of the Dog, the tragedy of Macbeth, and West Side Story. And again, you can find good reasons for all of these.

to be nominated. I think Dune kind of speaks for itself. West Side Story is this sort of, you know, vast Spielberg, you know, sort of, you know, marshalling all the sort of resources of these, you know, real life New York locations. And obviously the school dance, you know, gymnasium scene is so impressive as a, you know, work of, I think that's mostly a work of cinematography and editing. But there are, there's a vastness to West Side Story. It's also, you know, filmed outside of my window famously. So that helps. Nightmare Alley also filmed partially in Buffalo. So that also gives me a reason not to dump on it. And Nightmare Ali is not a movie that I ultimately liked it. I was actually thinking about rewatching Nightmare Alley recently. And then I

caught myself being like, really? Really? Why? Why would I do that? I think Beth is an interesting one in regards to the Wes Anderson question, right? Because this is a movie that gets a lot of mileage out of sort of a very minimalist but very insular, whereas, like, Wes Anderson is insular, but maximalist. You know what I mean? We're going to cram as much into the frame as possible. It's also a movie that gets a lot less than you would expect out of Francis McDormand kind of sauntering around. True. True and real. I was, yeah, I love Francis, but that is not one of my favorite Francis performances. Tragedy Macbeth is a movie I might watch again, just to see what I think about it a second time.

Honestly, yes, because I feel like that is a movie. I saw that one at New York Film Festival. I was not entirely certain as to what I made of it other than the fact that I wasn't fully satisfied, but I didn't hate it. And those are always the movies that I want to see again to sort of... Yeah, I think that was my response. I mean, I think we're, you know, we're in Peak Denzel. I think the past, you know, decade, decade and a half has been his best work. Yeah. And then you go to costume design, which is three of those five nominees are Best Picture nominees. So that's Dune Nightmare All-Nomer All-Nominated.

Sirono. This was the only Sierino nomination. Which, I just think it's, it's, I mean, that's, you know, Jacqueline Duran and Massimo Cantini, Perini. Jacqueline Duran, obviously, an Oscar fave in this category. And maybe that's what got Sirono and Sirono a movie that I liked more than, I think a lot of people liked. I think I liked it quite a bit more than you did. Tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes. Speaking of which, Cruella, another movie I thought was fine, which puts me in the, like, top one percentile of critics who watched

Crewella, Jenny Beaven winning costume design for that, I think, is good and fine. But this is, again, where you look at this picture as a whole, and you're like, there are so many other movies this year. Why all of a sudden did we just absolutely shrink our worldview to just the Oscar, the Best Picture nominees, and maybe like one or two others? And I think when you talk about that, French Dispatch is one of the first movies that would come to mind as movies that could have been, even if you didn't want to put it in like acting categories or picture or director, we used to nominate movies just for their crafts sometimes. Like, we, you know, we definitely used to do that. I'm nodding my head.

And it's, it's frustrating that Wes Anderson seemed to miss that trolley. You know what I mean? and so many of his movies that had such good, you know, crafts just got nothing and continue to get nothing. It's so interesting because it's like he's at his peak now as someone who garner's respect can get budgets that other people cannot get, can get stars all in the same movie for not large roles that other people cannot get. Yeah. He, at least in terms of an art house, can not. like make a blockbuster out of original movies.

And yet this is not the time that he's in his Oscar Prime. His Oscar Prime may never come back. And yet he did win an Oscar in this time. But his Oscar is a footnote, really. Like, he's an Oscar winner for Henry Sugar, which he wasn't even there for it. He didn't show up for it. And I don't think what Sanderson is, is, like, Anderson is lying awake at night being like, I don't have an Oscar.

I think it's much more of a thing for us than it is for him. But also for someone who works repeatedly with the same craftspeople. Yes. I imagine he would be, you know, yeah. So in 2014, when the Grand Budapest Hotel is nominated for all those awards, we should say that it does win for, well, first of all, it wins for score. That was the icebreaker, right, for Displa? That was his first?

I think so. And then he won one more after that, or am I just like completely? Did he win for Shape of Water? Give me a second. Does win for Shape of Water. It was his first and he's won, yeah, that second time since then. Has not been nominated in quite a while, actually. When was the last little women was the last diplomas?

nomination. Good score. Very good score. Loss to the Joker score. But anyway, so 2014. So Diplah wins for original score. Then we get

production design wins for Adam Stockhausen and Anna Panick. Francis Hannan and Mark Collier win for best makeup and hairstyling. Molina Cannonero wins for best costume design. That was like

Her third Oscar? Hold on. How many Oscars says Malina Ken and Aaron? Well, definitely for Marie Antoinette. So she had won for Barry Lyndon, chariots of fire. She was nominated for Out of Africa. She was nominated for Tucker, the man in his dream. She was nominated for Dick Tracy.

Lost to Cirano de Bergerac for Dick Tracy, which is kind of wild. Those costumes in Dick Tracy were amazing. Nominated for Titus, nominated for The Affair of the Affair of the, the necklace. Go off, girl, to get a nomination for the affair of the necklace. Wins for Marie Antoinette. So that was her fourth, did I say? Grand Budapest Hotel. No. Grand Budapest Hotel is her fourth. Yes. So she's a four-time winner. She is one behind Irene Sharaf, who is a five-time winner. And, of course, Edith Head is the queen of all costumes with eight wins. Never to be beaten. Who would Irene

Sharaf win for um let's see one for an american in paris sure one for the king and i big dress one for west side story one for cleopatra and then who's afraid of virginia wolf all right go off irene we uh snaps up for that but anyway argue with those so obviously good for all of those craftspeople that they got their you know their moment in the sun poor robert yeoman um uh uh cinematography still waiting lost that one to Lubeski which was the middle child of Lubeski's three in a row

and at this point for something like Asteroid City you and then when he doesn't show up for his win for live action short you kind of have to wonder because like we all

you know you and I were people that it's like Where's the campaign for Asteroid City, you know, you have to question if it's that Wes Anderson doesn't want to play the game anymore. And it's like he's still getting, you know, the budgets he's getting, he's still getting wide distribution, he's still getting, you know, top-notch talent in front of and behind the camera. Why does he, why should he care? This is where my sort of awards altruism comes into conflict with my years and years of

sort of observing these things and having what I like to like to hope is a, you know, a measured and considered view of all of these things is, yes, that makes total sense to me. If Wes Anderson doesn't feel like playing the game and waging an Oscar campaign, which I understand that he might, you know, if he doesn't feel like he needs to do that to get his next movie made and he just wants to work on his next movie, he works all the time. So I totally understand that. That would be a distraction from his whatever. That makes sense to me.

And then by result, it would make sense to me that the studio was like, well, if he's not going to campaign, we have other movies that we could put our resources into. All of that makes sense to me. And at the same time, I'm like, yeah, but they're still worthy and voters should still vote for them. You know what I mean? Just like, that's the sort of the altruist in me of just like regardless, we should be vote. Because there are also people who don't campaign and still get nominations. It's not like John Williams is out there, you know, pound in the pavement for his last... I mean, not in this past season.

Well, but like, what do you, wait, what do you mean? That, like, nobody who didn't campaign didn't get nominated this season? I think... I can't think of one. I mean, maybe Fines didn't do much, but, like, that movie had a heavy campaign behind the movie. Sure. I mean, I just, I feel like maybe we are moving in a direction where you just, like, you have to campaign or it's nothing. But, like, I don't know.

I feel like there are still, I don't feel like we're past that. Certainly, it's not, you know, the majority of movies that get nominated are obviously the ones who are really campaigning. Obviously, I'm not, you know, denying that. But I think sometimes if you are an awards voter, you know who Wes Anderson is. You know, like, maybe they're just not, they're just not watching the movies. too many awards voters have just sort of resigned themselves to not being Wes Anderson people and you know what I guess but if you are a crafts person if you are an art director if you are a costume designer I don't understand not being

plugged into these movies which are at the very least fascinating on a level of your chosen craft you know what I mean so I don't know man I just maybe some of the The craft thing is, too, like you were kind of saying with Royal Tannenbombs being punished in this way, that even though we recognize it as immaculate craft, we still, or craft's people, not we, we're not academy voters. Right. Maybe there is this kind of patina that he is the authorial voice over a lot of this craft. Sure. Yeah. But I imagine that would apply to more directors than just him, but maybe more so than most. He is kind of the art direction director, right? He is the, he's the diorama maker, right?

You can throw one nomination at the French dispatch. What is it? Oh, gosh. In any category? Yes. It's Jeffrey Wright for supporting actor. It's a good call. Jeffrey Wright, the unargued, like, best. performance of the movie. I think that's everybody's opinion is that he's the best performance in the movie. And this is his first Wes Anderson, right? I bet it's Isle of Dogs. Hold on. Ile of Dogs. Wes Anderson, Isle of Dogs. Cranston, Norton, Balaban, Goldblum, Murray. Control F, baby, Control F.

Nope, not in it. Okay, so yes, this is his first. And, you know, he gets, like, nominations from regional critics. No, like, you know, major precursors nominate him. But I also think it's inarguable that this lays the foundation for, oh, this is an actor we've all worked with. Everybody loves has seen so much of his work. And we've never nominated him before. Yeah.

It absolutely lays the foundation for the American fiction. And now we're at a point where, because I, because there was. was a point before French dispatch, before, you know, this where it's just like, it's, I remember thinking, like, oh, it's kind of too bad that Jeffrey Wright never really locked in as a movie actor on a level of, like, getting an Oscar. And now I'm like, I could absolutely see Jeffrey Wright winning an Oscar. Yeah, one million percent. He definitely feels like one of those people now who, like, everybody sort of agrees is on that level. I know that we, I mean, Jeffrey Wright's a great call for one nomination to throw this movie. And I know we just had basically an extended

production design conversation and with dips into costume design. I would give this movie an editing nomination because I just think that so many of these jokes hit so hard because this movie is so precisely structured and edited. I'd give it an editing nomination. Sure. I think these are all very good choices. And again, right, we did have this extended conversation on production design and costume, but I also think those are incredible. What is your favorite costume decision of all of these? A lot of this movie's in black and white,

so that sort of... I know many people out there are going to say Timothy, Chalemay, wearing no clothes. Well, just the, just the like towel hat. Just Club Chalemet is saying that, yeah. The towelhead is very cute, actually. Okay, brief, well, give your answer to this,

and then we'll have a quick Chalamay. Simone, are you a... listener, Club Shalame, we love you. Come guest, Queen, come guest, Diva. My pick is Tilda's... Club Shalame, come on for the Miss Stevens episode. Honestly, yes. Tilda's Calftan is to me, the Tangerine Cafting. Yeah, but it's the teeth that make that costume.

I guess. I don't know, man. Like, it's so good. What costume do I love most in this movie? You've got your You've got any number of either Jeffrey Wright or Leav Schreiber's suits in the Dick Cabot show segment You've got Sertia Ronan's You know

Also showing up and just filming for a day with this movie Just sat with a cigarette in her hand Like nice work I mean this is boring but I think I'm going to say Bill Murray Wonderfully costumed wonderfully costing this. Okay, let's have the Chalemay talk because, again, I think one of the reasons why everybody

sort of hopped on to this idea that the middle segment was such a detriment is because I think people were not keen on what Chalemay is doing in this movie. Again, oh, he's not that section's fault. He's

not the problem. I don't think, I don't think either. And again, that is a segment that's gotten. If anything to McDormon's more of a problem, but I don't even think she's the problem. I think it's, I have come around on it. I think it's a really good segment. I really like it. I think this is, it's interesting to see it now in retrospect after seeing him in movies like a complete unknown and bones and all or whatever. And even Wonka, where I think he's such a sort of recognizable persona as an actor, right? Where he's this sort of

still somewhat precocious LaGuardia kid who is both embodying but also performing as, you know, the next young, you know, next great actor of his generation. He wants to be one of the greats. He wants to be one of the great. I thought, okay, what did you think of that? I thought that was so endearing. I know a lot of people sort of pointed that out as being like odd or, you know. I appreciate it on a level of

I also believe that Timothy Chalamay wants to put in one of the work, put in the work to be considered one of the greats. So I don't just think it's like he expects to be showered. No, I like, he wants to, he wants to

work hard, he wants to do interesting work, he wants to take risks and challenges. He gave his own version of Venus and Serena and Selena in that speech where he just sort of was like, Michael George Michael Phelps and Viola Davis or whatever the hell. Yeah, it was great. I think in French dispatch, there's a degree of, like, he's got the cigarette, he's got

the stash, he's got the, you know, the hair. There's, there's an intentional sort of shockiness to the way he's presented in, like, all of a sudden this, you know, precious little twink boy or whatever is now playing as a student revolutionary, right? But I think it... And that doesn't, like, to me, that just plays into the heightenedness, the...

I know that people take issue, especially, like, people who want to take political issue with this movie, take issue with the idea of how that, the element of that middle story vantage point that it's like, well, look at these young kids, being kids, remember that it's supposed to be from the perspective of a middle-aged woman. Well, and also, it's not like she's... Not that it's just from Wes Anderson's perspective, but it's from the perspective of that

storyteller of that story, which is Francis McDormons' character. And she also at that same time, like, she does take that POV, but she also is a in, is in awe of this movement, right? This is why she wants to write this story to begin with. This is why she takes the initiative to sort of edit his manifesto. This is why she takes an interest in sort of, you know, um, having that golding, well, but scolding the girlfriend, right? Or essentially it's just like, it's not only that, that's a wonderful scene, by the way,

because not only is she sort of wounded on a pride level where all of a sudden she's, you know, being exposed as this older woman and and you know sort of made to feel shame. But I also think Wes Anderson makes space in that story to reflect the ways

that she might be wrong. Yes, but but also wrongheaded, you know. But she's also incredibly impressed by what they were, what these students are able to accomplish in their sort of youthful, you know,

rebellion. She has that line about you know, 400 years of Republican rule dismantled in the span of a fortnight or whatever. Whereas I don't think it's just entirely sort of dismissing this idea that these kids are like throwing tantrums or posing or whatever. But it is also incorporating that because, like it or not, like that is an element of these things. That is an element to the idea of student protest. I know obviously student protest is at such a fraught moment now.

and everybody has sort of predictably taken upsides on, you know, one side of it or the other. But there are elements of student protest that are often, you know, take this shape, right? Take the shape of, you know, as with anything that people are doing at that age, they are sort of feeling out, you know, what it is like to be, you know, politically involved, politically active, that kind of a thing. And I think Anderson, at least, while I still think this is the least successful of the three stories, I do think he kind of, you know, engineers a way to have his cake and eat it too of, you know, having it be filtered through the perspective of a character who can be wrongheaded in some ways and show, you know, wrongheaded people while also showing a certain virtuousness too in young people, you know. To bring it back to Salome, though, I understand that he is like the actor of the moment

especially, you know, when this movie came out, he was the twink actor of the moment. But I don't know. Like, talking about him on a performance level and the way that people like went hard on the performance,

I, even though he's like an actor we want to talk about, I am kind of bemused slash confused that like he would even be in the top five or ten performances in this movie that you would come out of this movie

and mention first. Like, there's so many other more, and this is not in a way to, like, be a dig against his performance, because, again, I don't think he's bad. But he's also one of the six most spot-lit performances, right? I guess. It's Benicio, it's Tilda, it's Francis, it's Timmy,

it's Jeffrey Wright, it's Bill Murray. Like, those are your sort of six. If you had to pick six most prominent performances in the movie, that's them. What are your top five performances in this movie? Okay. Jeffrey Wright, Tilda, Brody. Who else would I say? Who on the fringes would I say?

I'm tempted to say Lois Smith, because obviously. I would say Leis to do. Yep, because you're you, but I get it. Right. And then, honestly, Bill Murray. He's very good. Bill Murray and the scene with Jeffrey Wright, too, is so good. That's the thing.

Okay, so mine are right. Murray, I think is my number two. Brody, Swinton. And then I have, like, three that are sort of like, maybe is with question marks. Stephen Park as Nescafe, if only for that last scene. Stephen Park, who is an actor who I'm, like, who shows up in a bunch of these West Anderson's, but he's also one of those people who, like, you've been seeing in things forever. Like, he's in do the right thing.

You know what I mean? He's in, what's you call it? He's in a serious man. He's in a snowpiercer. He's in, oh, he's in Cagillionaire. We got to do that so I watch that movie. But he's also in like Cagillionaire, I'm telling you. He was just in Mickey 17.

Or is currently in the 17. His last line also feels kind of like an artist statement from Wes Anderson. He says, I'm not brave. I'm just not in the mood to disappoint everyone. Yes. Which feels like Wes Anderson exposing his inner feeling. So he's maybe my five.

Also, I wrote down Leav Schreiber. Also, I wrote down Elizabeth Moss. Elizabeth Moss is in three shots of this movie, Mr. We Should Not Be Nominating. I am saying nominating. I'm just saying performances. Also, I really liked Rupert Friend in that little insert. Rupert Friend.

had better be in every goddamn West Anderson movie moving forward. He's great. What an interesting actor. Him in the doll short is maybe one of my favorite West Anderson performances of all time. So good. What an interesting career. First of all, like, again, I don't want to, we are past the two hour mark at this point, so I don't want to derail us too much.

But, like, for a man with that face, he is taking some really interesting, sort of career notes. I talk about him in the death of Stalin all the time. I think he's so funny. But, like, he's so good whenever he does Wes Anderson stuff. I think he's so, you know, he was good on homeland for the amount of time I saw him on homeland. Apparently, he's on Obi-Wan Kenobi. None of my business.

Sure. But, like, apparently, has, you know, obviously done a good handful of television. And then he's in the Phoenician scheme. coming up. Wonderful. He's in the new Jurassic Park movie, which, fine. None of my business. Um, and then he's in a movie called After This Death that, uh, is directed by someone named Lucio Castro and co-stars Le Pace and Gwendolyn Christie and Mia Maestro. Um, anyway, uh, I think his career prospects are, he could go in any number of different directions. I think he has so many different like avenues he could go down. And I'm,

I'm hopeful that it takes him to some interesting places. So he's super funny. One thing I wanted to mention, though, even though we are coming around the mountain, the Golden Globes that year, this was the year. This was the Golden Globes got canceled, culturally canceled in 2020 for not nominating Michaela Cole. And then they got brought back two years later because things had gotten too boring. I know where you're going with this because this is the year where they were, Like, whoever ran their Twitter was like, there was no Golden Globes this year.

They were not on television. And so they just announced the winners via their social media account. But whoever was doing their social media account that year was on one to a degree that like. It was like everything was put into Google Translate, translated into French and then back into English. It was. I pulled up the Volt. article about it. Weirdly mean and evil.

That our friend and my co-worker, Nate Jones, who wrote about it. So these are some examples of some of the tweets. So, and again, they're just announcing the winners. If laughter

is the best medicine at West Side Movie is the cure for what ails you. Congrats on the Golden Globe for Best Picture, musical, or comedy. Doesn't even say, like, congratulations, West Side Story. It just gives you the app

for West Side Story. Kenneth Branagh has the right stuff, W-R-I-T-E stuff. Congratulations for taking home the Golden Globe for Best Screenplay Motion Picture. Doesn't mention the word Belfast at all. It takes 43 muscles to smile. Thanks for the workout, workout emoji, Andrew Garfield. And congratulations for taking home the Golden Globe for Best Actor, Motion Picture. This next one is the best one.

This is the best one. This one is deranged. So it's music notes emoji. Lean on me. music notes emoji. This talented actress is being recognized for her incredible contribution to West Side Story. Congratulations at

Ariana DeBose for taking home the Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress, Motion Picture. Lean on me is not a song. Because it's so supportive. She's a support. I also like how it starts off like a Jeopardy Clue. Like this talented actress was recognized for her contribution to West Side Story.

Who is Ariana DeBose? It's like, It's like this person, this, this, this intern has never seen an award show before. Does not know what these categories mean. Nate described. Nate described the Andrew Garfield one with the emoji of the weightlifting guy. Bizarre emoji used that recalled an alien attempting to flirt. Which is not wrong.

And so this was happening. So these tweets were being released. sort of periodically throughout the evening. And slowly but surely, more people came sort of in the virtual space to gawk at it and sort of to, you know, rubberneck as to what was going on. And so we eventually just started like just cheering it on. And honestly, it did more to turn around the Golden Globes than any other like substantive changes that they made where all of a sudden we were just like, this is so stupid and we're having such a fun time with it.

And we ultimately ended up getting the Golden Globes as our, like, fun, dumb moment of award season anyway, even without having the Golden Globes. It was so, so much fun. I posit that it was the last fun thing that happened on Twitter. Right? Let's just say that. Let's just pretend I'm right on that. Before or after Trump got COVID? Oh, after, because this would have been in 2020.

Oh, yeah. Not too many good things happened after January 22. We haven't had like a good trailer since then. No, I think this was the last, I think this was the last fun thing to happen on Twitter. But anyway, I just wanted to commemorate that because, and we should say French dispatch did get nominated for original score for the globe. at least had one up on the Oscars that year for that.

French Dispatch also won the Yoga Award for Worst Foreign Director, much like other Yoga Award winners that we have mentioned in the past. I don't think so. Flash in the Birds, Double Birds. What are you talking about? Doublebirds for the Yoga Awards. It did end up in sixth place on the Cayed de Cinema's top ten. Joe, do you remember what was number one that year?

In 2021, it would have been an average. episode of fucking Twin Peaks from 1990. I don't know. What? You're trying to be smug. It's former

this monocry bus episode. For 2021? Not 2021 release states died. Okay. First cow. Oh my God. First cow.

First cow. First place. Wonderful. See? See? See? You're smuggery. My smuggery.

Gets. Gets pulled out from under you. That was good. Okay. Very quickly, I'm going to empty my reporter's notebook appropriately enough. I said it began as a holiday as a perfect first line. The Assembly of Howitzer's tray of refreshments. Oh, the line, he received an editor's burial.

First of all, perfectly delivered by Angelica Houston, but also, what a wonderful line. And it's just like he received an. editor's funeral, but the shot is like just the grave being dug. Yeah, in this like desolate Kansan environment. This was the line that I wrote down. This was in the trailer that feels as much of a mission statement as anything. This is still in the prologue, so this is Angelica Houston. Good writers, he coddled them, he coaxed them, he ferociously protected them.

These were his people. This is one of those things where, and I think people often criticize things that seem to be made to be appreciated by writers or writerly types because ultimately writers are the ones reviewing these movies, so they get interpreted as sort of bait to critics. If you've

ever worked with an editor who did any of those things, coddled you, coaxed you, ferociously protected you, you understand how much loyalty that can inspire and how much, absolutely. because that is not always the case. And the ones who sort of, like, go out of the way to really,

to make you really feel like your work is being not only improved, but sort of protected. You understand why that line at the beginning of the movie really sets you into a place with not only howitzer. But, and that's why you get that, you know, the scene with Jeffrey Wright and Bill Murray in the jail cell, which is, you know, when we talk about things, like, you know, Wes Anderson makes movies that are sort of hermetically sealed, but unemotional.

I don't, it's not like he, he doesn't give you a ton of emotional scenes, but like, they exist. Like, it's been a hard year dad. I know it has, Chazzy. Like, that's from Royal Ten of Bums. That's not, like, it's, it was, it was, it's been there all along. There's, there are moments in, you know, life aquatic that are that way. And it's just like, he does give you these moments that almost to me feel more impactful

because they are so rare. There's the whole thing in this movie where, like, Howitzer lived by the motto of no crying. And so, of course, when you have that motto, you obviously are in the movie going to get a couple of really impactful scenes of crying, one of which is Elizabeth Moss, which is sort of more comedic.

But you get that scene in the jail cell where Roebuck Wright has been arrested for being in a gay bar. And he doesn't know anybody. The only number he had committed to memory was, how, And so, and because he had been, his had a submission that had been very kindly rejected by Howitzer. And so Howitzer shows up and he bails him out and he gives him an assignment and he sort of sees something in him that he wants to sort of nurture as a writer. While also, without saying it, sort of recognizing the fact that Roebuck has been discriminated against and sort of jailed for being gay and the unfairness of that.

And it is a kindness. It is sort of an uncommon kindness that has been extended to this character. And so Jeffrey Wright sort of looks up at him and he's sort of choked up and he's got the tear coming out of his eye. And then howitzer says, no crying. But in a way that obviously communicates the fact that, like, you know, I get it. It's the sort of unspoken, thank you, you're welcome sort of thing. It's a wonderful scene. It's acted beautifully.

But it is also, you know, that is the emotion of this movie, this idea that there is this type of, you know, journalism that is indulgent and that it is, you know, sort of extravagant. And in many ways, sort of, you know, if you are looking at it from a strictly sort of utilitarian perspective, not, you know, crucial to. But it's also incredibly human. And that's where it goes back to that line of he brought the world to Kansas. Exactly right. Regardless of what the individual story is, how absurd it is, how, you know, ridiculous the writer is. It is bringing human stories to people who would otherwise not have those human stories. Yes, yes.

It also is the first time, I believe, that Wes Anderson sort of broached queerness in his movies. and you saw it again in Asteroid City. And I'm not out here being like, why does Wes Anderson hate gay people, obviously. But like, it has never, it had never really been a subject. How dare you? Margo Tenenbaum is bisexual. Margo Tenenbaum is pan romantic, pan-a-romantic, pan-sexual aromantic.

But this, it's, you know, never been one of his sort of bailiwigs, right? But seeing him sort of poke past the sort of parameters of his, you know, traditional sort of subject matters has been interesting and has been, you know, has been to me at least an acknowledgement of, you know, a worldview that it is, that is sort of expanding or that is at least, you know, he's talking, he's, he's not shrinking. I think a lot of people sort of look at Wes Anderson nowadays. as like he has escaped into himself. He has sort of shrunk his world around him into a small little, like, you know, a box.

But these last two movies especially show that he is doing the opposite. I absolutely agree with that. And we know so little about him, but, like, he is also apparent now. And, like, you know, I guess maybe in ideal circumstances, this is not true for everyone, especially Americans. Right. But that process forces you to expand your world and expand. banter worldview. I wrote on one more whether you like it or not. I wrote on one

more quote that I thought really applied to a lot of this stuff and feels very west-coded too. When it's part of the Roebuck Wright interview with Schreiber where he

Schreiber is sort of pressing him to answer a question about his process or whatever himself. And Wright says self-reflection is a vice best-conducted in private or not at all, which does also feel like something that Anderson might reflect. And then my last note was sort of about the general sort of tenor to a lot of the Wes Anderson criticism. I said there is a Michelle Visage-esque desire to force Wes Anderson to attempt something outside of his signature style.

That sense of Michelle Visage being like, we know you can do this, but can you give us glamour? what I mean, like that kind of thing. I would like... When somebody is doing something that nobody else in the world can do? This is my thing. It's just like, let somebody have a signature style. I understand, like, whatever. One of these things is a competition and one of these is not, you know, but still, like,

I do not need Wes Anderson to show me glamour. You know what I mean? I do not need him to show me that he can do something outside. Stop drawing dots on his face. There we go. Anything else you want to say before we move into the island? to be here. My last notes, another line I wrote down, the translation of the French protest slogan is the children are grumpy. I put that down too, yes. Relatable. And then, okay, so Niscafay's cocktail that he serves them is described as purple, overtly medicinal, thick, and all of these other things. And I was like, he just is like serving them robatusses.

This is coffee. He served them, you know, extra strength robotuss in a shot glass. Sure. Good for him. And as is my fashion, that's my last word. All right, wonderful. You want to tell the listeners what the IMDB game is all about? Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. Then if these titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that. that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints, and that is the IMDB game.

Sure is. All right, Chris, would you like to guess first or go first? Honestly, I'm just going to give first this episode, and I'm going to break form. We normally do not pick people that are in the movie we just talked about today. I did that too. Oh, no. Oh, well, today I felt like it, and also this cast is just absurd. I just hope we didn't pick the same person. I picked Tilda Swinton. Oh, good. Okay.

I did not. Okay. No voiceover performances, though, could you imagine if she did like an illumination movie? Honestly? She was in like, Dispickleby Five. Honestly, work, Tilda. I have decided that I have recently sort of come to the conclusion about a lot of celebrities. that I may or may not want to spend actual time with.

Tilda. Oh, no, I would spend time with Tilda. I would spend a day with Tilda Swind. I think it would be so much fun. I would go on vacation with Tilda. She seems like a rad person, but also like a kind person. And I think... Supremely interested in whatever anyone is saying to her.

Enthusiastic about her conversation topics. You know those apps that can just, like, text you positive affirmations? I need I need Tilda to like have that app Like this is her selling out Yeah She's gonna have a positivity affirmation app And she's just going to like say things to you

Yeah That are so want Go back and watch her on this year's roundtable It was she did She's wonderful Yes All right so all right Tilda known for Um

Michael Clayton Correct Okay her Oscar win Um See which Wes Anderson's, if any, is going to be a major thing. Actually, I think one of them is the first Chronicles of Narnia. Incorrect.

Damn it! Okay. Greta, abandoned ship, abandon ship. We don't want Narnia's abandon ship, Greta. I think she's going to do a good job with it. Of course she's going to do a good job with it, but... I'm excited. I'm excited to see what she's. she does with it. Um, she'll make another ladybird at some point. Well, she's doing it for Netflix, too. So it's like, what cachet does this get you in your? She's forcing Netflix to give

her a theatrical release, though. She's still not going to have any real lasting imprint three years after it's released. I'm hoping it does, uh, it does good for other people who also wish to push Netflix on this. Anyway, um, I'm just going to say Moonrise Kingdom. Incorrect. All right. So you're getting years. Damn. 2011, 2013, 2018. Is 2011 we need to talk about Kevin? Uh, it is. Okay.

What are the two other years? 2013, 2018. Is 2013 Snowpiercer? Sure is. Damn. We just talked about Snowpiercer. There it is. Honor and own for it.

2018. What was going on in 2018? The lost, it's a lost year for everybody. Um, Ms. Tilda. 2019 would be a real lost year if it wasn't for parasite. Like, 2019, everything in my brain is parasite, or that's the lens through which I can remember what happened in 2019. Little women, baby. Yeah, but no, I understand.

I hear you. I hear you. All right, 2018. Um, Miss Tilda. Yeah. Is that Isle of Dogs? It is not Isle of Dogs? Oh, you said no voice performances, obviously. Um, all right.

So it's not a Wes. Is it, uh, Cohen's? Is it fucking Buster Scruggs? I don't think she's in that. It is not the ballot of Buster Scruggs, which she is not in. Yeah.

Um, is it fucking train wreck? No. It is not train wreck. Train wreck is 2015. Yeah. Okay. Um, is it a movie I like?

Yes, if I remember correctly. Okay. Um, is it a supporting role? No. Oh, is it a bigger splash? No. That was earlier. Um.

I can't, uh, I can't, I can't, I can't say why it is neither lead nor supporting, but it's probably a lead. Okay. There's some fraudiness. Oh, wait. No. Is it fucking Susperia? It's Susperia. I love Susperia.

Are you kidding me? I couldn't say that it's a past episode because it's like, we'll just updated our spreadsheet for six timers. That's a supporting role. It's many supporting roles, but it's a supporting role. She's playing multiple supporting roles, and both of those supporting roles are so prominent that, like, Tilda's a lead of the movie. I don't know. I don't know if the math masks that way, but I hear you. I hear what you're saying. The Spirio was a movie when we did that episode. I probably went from a three and a half to slamming the five on that movie. I've gone back and listened to that episode a couple of times because I think it's one of my favorites. Are you a murderer? No, it's one of my favorite ones we've ever done. How do you just go back and listen to one of our episodes for pleasure? I can't listen to myself like that.

Editing these episodes has completely, like, demolished that part of my brain. Like, I absolutely, because I have to listen back to every one of them. Listener, this is a moment just for the two of us. The Joe is not here anymore. Joe is probably really smart in that episode. And Joe probably gives one of his best episode performances. And that's why he's going back to listen to it. No, I don't think like that.

I don't operate like that. No, you don't. I'm being a bitch. Um, no, having to listen back to every single episode that we do to do post-production is completely obliterated the part of my brain that, like, doesn't like listening to the sound of my voice. Now it's just like a different person. It's completely, I've divorced myself from it.

All right. For you, Chris, I also pulled into the cast of the French dispatch, but I borrowed a little bit deeper. It's so funny to me that this person is just sort of like, they're among the gaggle of editors and whatever. He gets, you know, maybe two lines. But I had just recently finished the most recent season of only murders in the building in which he is also on.

So I'm giving you the known for, for Griffin Dunn. Griffin Dunn, whose counterpart is Fisher Stevens in the movie, too. Which makes complete sense. Which is just like, you know, it already gets the laugh. Okay, Griffin Dunn. Yes. This is going to be so hard. Okay, so are they all acting?

credits. Yes. Cool. Griffin Dunn, of course, famously, the child of Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn. Former This Had Oscar Buzz episode, After Hours. Yes, correct, after hours. The American Werewolf in London. Correct. You are two for two. In fairness, this is where I'm like, could be anything. It could be anything. It could. Could

and it. Quiz show? No, but that's a good guess. Um, uh, it's got to be more recent than that because even you know, well, wait, is he in another Wes Anderson movie?

Like, is, no, I don't think he's a Grand Budapest person. But I'm going to, I'll just say the French dispatch. Not the French dispatch, so that's two. So your years are both 2013. What is he in in 2013? Is it movie 40s? Yes, it's movie 43. Wow.

Wow. That is fully cheating because I have so familiarized myself with a cast of movie 43 just because I love. That's really funny that you got that. I love playing movie 43 wherever I can in Cinematrix. So I'm like, I know who's in movie 43. Actually, I think that actually, you know what it's funny? Because I think that is a directing credit. But he shows up in one of those bits, I thought.

Maybe. It's not credited in his acting roles as I refined the thing. He's one of the directors for that movie? I guess. I don't know. But anyway, you got it. So one more 2013 movie. I love movie 43 as an object. As an object. I've never seen movie 43. You're absolutely fine.

It is, by the way, though, probably instrumental to Kieran Culkin having an Oscar today because that is where he and Emma Stone worked together. What? Yes. That's wild. Yeah. And she was the one who convinced him to do. I probably play a movie 43 at least once a week in Cinematrix.

No, it's smart. It's smart. All right. So your other movie is a 2013 movie. I sort of remember him in it, but I wouldn't have if I was not, like, if I didn't see this. And was like, oh, right, he's in that. It is not a movie that either one of us likes, although I sort of. sort of benignly dislike it.

I think a lot of people sort of vehemently hated it. I think you are maybe one of those people. In 2013? Yeah. Who are the villains? It's an Oscar movie, I'm guessing. Yes. Okay.

Who are the villains of 2013? Hmm. No more clues because I feel like that's sufficient. Oh, is this? He's in that? Is this Dallas Buyers Club? He's a doctor in Dallas Byers Club. I think he's the one of the ones who prescribes the off-label meds or whatever.

Yes. Yes, Dallas Buyers Club. So Griffin Dunn's known for is After Hours, an American Wearful in London, movie 43, and Dallas Byers Club. All right, I'm looking at movie 43. I'm going to see exactly what he did in this movie. But, yeah, so Kieran Culkin and Emma Stone were co-stars in that. the same segment of movie 43, and then she condensed him to do... Movie 43, it's just a giant paragraph of people who are in this movie starting with Elizabeth Banks.

Right. Elizabeth Banks, who are the... I don't know who those people. Griffin Dunn is in the movie. Bob Odenkirk. Oh, Griffin Dunn directed the Kieran Culkin, Emma Stone, segment of movie 43. That's really interesting. I think that's his only role.

I think his only thing, he may, you might show up in that segment as, like, in a bit part, but like, wait a minute. He's credited just as a director. I think, no, I, this list of people, it starts with Elizabeth Banks, but she starts, it starts with her as a director, and I've just over, I've been overlooking because she's an, I, Elizabeth Banks is also a director, but yes, because it starts with. her I just like started my name looking yeah committing that to memory and never mind he must not be in this movie he's not but I thought that he was in this movie because the list starts with Elizabeth Banks who is also a director indeed all right well done don't play Griffin Dunn in Cinematrix because I will think that he actually I know now you've got to be

When he only directed it. Don't play Griffin Dunn and Cinematrix. All right. Everybody, that is our episode. If you would like more, This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at Thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Instagram at This Head Oscar Buzz. And you can go to our Patreon if you want to sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulant

Brilliant at Patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky. Crispy File, that's FI-O. on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled REID. We would also like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance.

Oh, and Taylor Cole for our theme music, of course. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So down that nasty oyster shot and then, write something nice about us. That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Children are grumpy. Children are grumpy.