This Had Oscar Buzz - 335 – Jersey Boys (with Tyler Coates!)

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Ooh wee ee ooh ooh ooh ooh wah, Gary! It’s about time we talked about another musical and we’ve got a first time guest this week to join us! Writer Tyler Coates is here to talk about 2014’s Jersey Boys, the screen adaptation of the Tony winning jukebox musical charting the rise of Frankie Valli and … Continue reading "335 – Jersey Boys (with Tyler Coates!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Friends like that, you should change your name to Sinatra. I'm going to be as big as Sinatra.

I would love to introduce you to a new discovery of mine. Frankie Valley. I heard them all, but I never heard a voice like Frankie Valley's. I know I need to write for this voice. Thank you. The world is going to hear that. voice. You want me to produce your songs? Find the name and a sound. And then we can make something happen. Listen, we got something for you, all right?

Sherry. Set up the A-track. We're going to double Frankie's voice. It's going to explode right off the radio. Sherry, is that a different sound? I love this record. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that obliterated a thousand years of Republican authority and less than a Fortnite. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that Once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed.

I'm here, as always, with my friend who's in for 150 large to the casinos. Chris File. Hello, Chris. Hello, welcome. Much like the Broadway run of Jersey Boys, this podcast is underwritten by the mafia. But performed every day, eight times a week at the August Wilson Theater. You know, that's how they, like, kept it open, right? Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

Listen. Listen. Is that it ran for a decade because it was underwritten by the mafia, and then all of the house seats were constantly going out to, you know, family. You know, whatever works on Broadway these days, whatever keeps the love on. Worse has happened. Worse has happened. It's a proud history of the Great White Way. Yeah. Jersey Boys was one of those shows. Actually, wait, we get too nervous about having a guest here where we haven't introduced them. I'm sorry.

We can't do it the way all these other podcasts do it and just leave them here hanging forever. We do have a guest. First timer on this had Oscar Buds, which is very exciting. Come here to talk about Clint Eastwood and his toe tap in ways, writer and entertainment journalist. Tyler Coates, welcome to this head Oscar Buzz. Hello, and thank you. And I have to apologize for picking Clint Eastwood's jersey boys. I'm just going to say right up and stop.

I'm incredibly interested to, um, to dig into that because this was a, uh, a special request. Not that we wouldn't have eventually gotten to Jersey Boys because this has been hanging on. It could have been worse. It could have been worse. Tyler, you could have picked Rock of Ages. Remember when there was a Rock of Ages movie? Oh my God. Which I also never saw this. Yeah. You're fine. You're deeply fine. Um, but Jersey Boys has been hanging around on our list forever and we're kind of, um, We're precious with the musicals because there aren't, there's not a unlimited supply of them. So once we did, we did what, hairspray and a couple of others in quick succession, rent.

And then I remember being like, oh, we should like maybe like dole out the musicals a little bit more carefully. So we've been hanging on to like this and the producers forever. It's going to, the producers will be the last musical we ever do on the show. Producers, which I never saw on Broadway, even though that was definitely still there when I moved to the city, I'm pretty sure, for at least a couple more years. Jersey Boys definitely was. Jersey Boys was fairly new when I first moved to the city and lasted. You couldn't get a ticket because you're not in the family. Well, and also, like, I'm gay.

It's fine. I don't need to go see Jersey Boys. But, like, yeah, that's, yeah. Sister, I saw Jersey Boys in vague. It's pretty bad when the gayest thing you can do in a city is see Jersey boys. But I remember seeing, was it Groundhog Day that played at the Owen, the Owen Wilson? The Owen Wilson, the Owen Wilson after Jersey Boys, I want to say. And I remember going to see that.

And I'm like, so this is what the August Wilson looks like inside because like it was one of the ugliest theaters on Broadway. I mean, sure, but it's huge is the thing. It's just like at least it's like. That's how I felt like at the winter garden the first time, like, something after cats. It was like, oh, this is what, this play? It was huge. I've still never seen the inside of what is it, the ambassador, whatever the hell of Chicago is. I have.

I walked out of Chicago. Wait, who was the, who was the stunt cast when you walked out of Chicago? Billy Ray Cyrus. Got it. I got a, I got a, I got a picture with them at a dinner beforehand. And I remember being really excited about it because I was like, I love. I love Chicago. I've seen it many times. And my boyfriend at the time was like, this is going to be bad. Like, we should leave. And I was like, no, it's going to be great. And like two minutes and I was like, see, see. And then like by the end of the first act, like, Velma Kelly couldn't land a cartwheel. Oh, no. Oh, no. This is not like, bare minimum I'm asking for. And I would see it again. That's tough. As long as they can hit all their moves.

Exactly. So we've got you here to talk about, obviously, Jersey Boys, but also just sort of the Oscar buzziness of it. And you've been covering the Oscars in some capacity or another for many, many years now. So this being your first time, we ask all our first time guests to essentially just give us your Oscars origin story. What sort of first got you onto the whole? Oscars. I'm not going to speak for you and say obsession, but certainly that's the case for Chris and me. Right. I don't know exactly when it was like the first time it was on my radar. I remember really wanting, God, I remember like in the 90s. I probably watched it because

like when Whoopi Goldberg was hosting. And I like Whoopi Goldberg, honestly. And I liked movies, but I probably wasn't seeing, like, didn't know what the movies were. Because I was, you know, like nine years, nine, ten years old. But I remember, like, the Schindler's List Oscar and, like, how important that was that Spielberg won. I guess I remember the year before was Forrest Gump. So I think it was just, like, that was around the time I was starting to see, like, probably grown-up movies.

And then there was a place to, like, have jokes and people talk about them. Yes. Because that's not what was around my life. So maybe that's what it was. There was so much scrutiny on Whoopie when she first started hosting, I thought. particularly because it came on the heels of Billy Crystal who had like sort of reset the template for what an Oscar host would be. And she wasn't so far off of that.

She didn't do the like song and dance number at the beginning. But like she and Crystal, you know, were comedically, you know, sort of tuned on a joke level. Yeah, like comic relief. I think of them as very intertwined. Exactly. Exactly. No, I definitely remember the Letterman year.

Yes. Because I was probably by that point in middle school. and into Letterman. Yeah. So I thought it was very funny. And I, you know, that was probably the first time I was like, wait, people didn't like this. Oh, I remember being shocked when I found out that people didn't like Letterman because I felt the same way.

I was like, this is so silly and goofy. And like, and yeah, I was 13, 14 at the time. So it was like, oh, Letterman's the cool late night guy. And would that have been, I'm trying to like place that in the timeline. It's the Pulp Fiction year, right? It was the Pulp Fiction Forest Gump year, which was the big one for me. Wow. Oh, okay, because it's Uma, Oprah.

Yes, yes. But it was also he had gotten, he had moved to CBS, I think, by then. And so all of that whole late night thing, which I remember was like in the entertainment news, but like on the periphery where like it was, I remember I watched the late shift when they made the TV movie of the late shift. And I remember getting very into that. And that, you watch that and it's very easy to just sort of come out with. you know, Dave's the good guy and Jay's the bad guy and lo and behold history of repeat itself

several years later. But I remember that like it was very easy to sort of track the Oscars via the hosts in the 90s, I thought, because it really went just from Billy to Whoopie and then kind of back and forth and with Letterman as the weird sort of outlier

in the middle. That's a good origin though. That sort of tracks a little bit with mine. That's sort of You know, you're just sort of getting into the kinds of movies that the Oscars are sort of exposing you to. So I feel like we've also had someone else previously say that it was Whoopi that was their gateway. I just forget who. I don't remember either, but that makes a ton of sense, especially because she's already a movie star, you know. She's already a movie star.

I mean, I was obsessed with Sister Act. That's the thing. I think a lot of people our age and our proclivity were very, very obsessed with Sister Act. And so when you requested Jersey Boys, you mentioned that you, by and large, are an Eastwood fan. And so I want to give you the space because Chris and I can be like little bitches about Eastwood. And so, which is, which is different. We've defended Eastwood as well, you know, I think it's just we, maybe because we're gay guys, we have outliers and favorites. sure yes I'll still ride for million dollar baby I love you do really and I really like what was the letters from Iwo Jima I really liked that oh yeah yeah yeah that was a great one so where where does your enthusiasm for talking about Jersey boys come from well I was excited it's a it's a I like I think I like Eastwood as a director first I think I mean he's a fascinating individual but well yeah to me like the

director of Clenice, what is what's interesting to me. Yeah. And Jersey Boys is one that I was just like, I never saw the show because I was sort of against jukebox musicals as like a philosophy. And it seems like the like dictionary definition of a jukebox musical too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like also, and I remembered this as soon as I hit play on the movie and the orchestral

version of a one-a-night started playing. And I immediately was like, oh, I. I hate Frankie Valley. Oh, yeah. It's going to be like all falsetto and like a cappella adjacent. And I was like, immediately I was like, fuck.

A lot of snapping fingers. I'm going to be the freak this episode that loves Frankie Valley music. That is true. That is the freakyest thing I've ever heard. So, yeah. So I think it was just, it was sort of a, and also like 2014. Just like, this was not on my radar as like a movie to see.

I don't know what my life was like in 2014. Well, don't want to think about it. Yeah. Summer scene is summer movie counter programming, baby. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think I've become, I've become a big Eastwood fan. I think in the last two years since living in Los Angeles.

Yeah. It's funny. And we can go back into like, that, an undergrad, I took a film, um, director's class. and we had to write, like, basically an otor theory paper, and one of the options was Clint Eastwood, and that's the one I picked. And, like, I don't think he's an otor. And I'm sure I did badly on that paper because it just made no sense.

Because they also gave us, like, the movies we had to write about. Right. These don't make any sense. Well, and the most atorist thing that people sort of say about Eastwood isn't really in style so much as it's the way he works, the sort of pace in which that he works, which doesn't really come across on the screen. as much.

I could make a really strong argument for a particular point of view and a certain thematic thread running through all of his work. And, like, that was maybe the most interesting thing about this movie, but I don't want to jump to, like, the end of the movie. I think that's what would, what definitely makes him one. But, like, as far as, like, you're mentioning Joe, the style of his, you know, productions. and the expediency, if nothing else. Right, right.

He's going to churn it out. Yeah. And I think it's that expediency that maybe, and proof might be in the pudding, he's not a director for musical. Yes. Well, it's, yeah. Sorry, continue. You were saying something, though, Tyler.

Yeah, so, I mean, I think I just, you know, my partner and I just, like, watch a lot of movies if we, like, sometimes if we, like, are stuck and we can't think of something. We're like, let's just put on a Clint Eastwood movie. Yeah. Because it is, like, there is a film. familiarity to, like, the pacing, for sure. And there's just, like, he's directed 45 movies.

So it's also like, we're, like, checking off some boxes here. Yes. It feels like we're being productive. Yeah. But I've discovered how much I've really enjoyed of his films. And I think he's a really interesting worldview, not that I subscribe to it, but I think it's just interesting how he, like, presents it in his films. So I was really thinking, like, okay, maybe this is like, maybe I'll find

something to love in Jersey boys. And then I was like, no, my gut instinct was probably right on this one for all these years. It reminded me if nothing else watching the movie, which is part of the reason why I went and I sought out that year's

Tony Awards and I've been sort of like browsing through it all day, which is a wild experience in and of itself. It's the CBS broadcast with the commercials, which I totally love. The aughts Tonys are all like peak. Yeah. Well, and so this was the year of, it was Jersey Boys won best musical, but the nomination leader that year was the drowsy chaperone.

So it does not take a whole lot of imagination to sort of get into the mindset of what I imagine it was at the time, which was Jersey Boys, the sort of moneymaker, the hit, the one that's going to tour, the one that sort of feels establishment, and the drowsy chaperone being like the, you know, the queer artie. movie a show of choice even though that one it's it has that thing that happens quite so often at the tonies where it's kind of the the production sort of comes in from out of town they were sort of in from Canada all of their speeches were sort of you know shout out to Canada and whatnot and it reminded me of like whenever you would get like you know the big you know war horse would come in or whatever you know even like august osage county from Chicago or whatever um And they, you know, thank you for making us feel so welcome on Broadway or whatever. And you really do.

It is underlined. What a, what a, you know, insular, I imagine, community it is. But so watching it, I was kind of reminded of like, and this is a thing that comes out across a lot in the movie, which is the great sort of fascinating thing about Jersey Boys that nobody ever mentions, but it like exists constantly, is this idea. Besides being underwritten. by the movie. Well, sure. But I just mean like on a like almost like a thematic level or not even just is this idea that like it's crazy that these four guys sang like that and didn't get the shit kicked out of them. You know what I mean? By you know, by you know, by you know, this like rough and tumble, you know, community or you know what I mean? Like they grew up amongst the mob or whatever. And these guys are singing in like the highest falsetto and whatever. And it's just sort of like it's amazing that people let them get away with like. acting like half a fag in, you know, in, in Jersey or whatever. And then the musical is the same way of just like, do you believe this? A musical about like these, you know, mobbed up, you know, straight guys singing like girls or whatever?

And it's just like, it's the oddest. It seems so, like, fascinated with itself as an object that, I don't know. I don't know. It's an odd thing. I found it at least to be an odd thing. It's hard to even imagine this is a musical. to be honest. Yeah.

I feel like that's something to talk about right at the top is that this movie is not a musical. No. It really isn't. Clint really doesn't know how to make it one. I think his directorial impulses and like his story structure, you know, like the typical Eastwood story structure doesn't fit neatly into the package of a musical and how musicals are kind of played out. And it's like, the show itself, when you see it on the stage, it does kind of take a minute to really get to one of like the songs. Because there are probably so dedicated to the timeline?

There's definitely songs in it. I don't know if this follows the structure of the show or not because it's been so long since I've seen it. We'll get into maybe some of the certain songs that were chosen for certain narrative points don't make any sense. But I do remember, you know, it takes a long time in a jukebox musical to really get to the big songs that, like, you know, all of the people who know this music are, like, buying a ticket to see. But, like, it takes forever for this movie to have a musical sequence. I kept looking at the time that the timer and just be like 50 minutes. Like, how long is it going to take? And, you know, there's also, like, the musical theater or musical.

comedy type of thing, and even just like a musical biopic thing of you get your types, you get the protagonist, we get this type of quirky guy, we get this other type of quirky guy, we get the one who's going to be the antagonist.

Everybody kind of blurs together at the beginning of this story. And I think it, I get the idea of doing that by where it gets to the end, but it does not work. It does not work.

Well, I think it's interesting because it, you know, it did follow the trend of like, I mean, and there are a few outliers like Le Miz, although you can talk about how like Le Miz kind of fits into this trend of just like we got to make the music happen in an organic space for people to, like it either has to be Sun Live like Le Miz or it has to be on a stage like in Chicago. Right, right. Nine in a way. Yeah. We can't just like break into song. because that's insane. Right. Meanwhile, we have, like, this is like

when Marvel's starting. And it's just like, are you fucking kidding? But, so, like, that's also the problem. I can't have met. Like, I was saying there being like, okay, like, what's the opening number, like, where the cast comes out and sings together? Right.

And I was like, where, there's no. But then even the musical sequences were not, like, propellants. They were really boring. No. Well, Chris and I. Because I hate Frankie Valley in the four seasons, but. Right. Well, Chris and I have tend to argue every now and again about Ray, the Jamie Fox movie, Ray, and about whether that's a musical or not. And I say it's not. And I think it's, you know, a biopic with songs. But there's some gray area there. And I can understand that, like, there's an argument to be had. But Jersey Boys, to me, has less music in it than Ray does. You know what I mean? Like it's even a movie like that. And it gets so dense in, like, putting all those songs.

together, you can't really enjoy it if you're someone who enjoys that music. But, like, it's hard to just be like, oh, this is finally the song I was waiting to hear. And, you know, maybe the one that they linger on the most is the most awkwardly used one in the whole. It keeps the structure of, like, of that thing you do,

which is also not a musical, but it is a movie with music. But that movie... But the music of numbers and that are incredible. That's the thing. It feels like a musical, you know? Exactly. Well, and it's just like you can watch those musical numbers because they are staged with, you know, exuberance and sort of fun.

And even, you know, just on a performance, I can't imagine ever like going on YouTube and looking up and just watching, you know, a single song from this movie. You know what I mean? Which I do constantly with a bootleg of Jersey boys. Well, and the other thing, and we should at some point get to the other side of the plot description so we can really dig into it. But I do think part of the idea is, too, is. to, and I imagine that, like, John Lloyd Young richly deserved his Tony Award and whatnot, but, like, there is a difference often between being able to carry a stage musical and being able to carry a film.

And I think this is a really good example of the type of acting and type of presence you need to have. And, you know, Eastwood's quoted in various places talking about, you know, casting the movie the way that he did. And he was basically like, look, they learned the music. They know it from all these years. Why would I wait for somebody else to learn? And it's just like, Clint, like, there are other considerations to be having here. The camera does not lie about charisma. So, and I feel bad in that way because it's just like, you know, I imagine it was, it felt like a, you know, dream role to get to be able to take, you know.

There is a degree where it feels like what you're watching is not the performer's fault, even though it is. is their fault? Yes. Yeah, it's like beyond their control. It's beyond their capability. And, you know, there we have it. I will say there was one number. I wrote it down.

I don't remember which one it was. But there was a moment where he like keeps, Frankie Valley keeps sending the mic over to like the bass player. Yes. To like chime in. Yeah. And he kept pulling the mic back before the bass player hit the note. Yes.

And I was like, oh, because you're not singing live, so you don't know how to modulate this. Right. And I was like, and you're also not being directed well. Right. Because. Right. I mean, yeah. And you're getting like one take.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just basic stuff like this, the camera doesn't move. I mean, the camera stands still like with three eyes in the middle of the frame on stage for like a full minute and a half. Yeah. There are no edits. There are no quick cuts. There's just nothing like making it feel like you're there and watching something and

feeling something. It's really bizarre to me how, like, stoically shot this musical is. Say what you will about Baz Luhrmann's Elvis. And I know that, like, some people like, some people didn't, but like, that is how you, you know, throw some energy into a performance scene. You know what I mean? Where even if you're just sort of filming it at, you know, some local wherever where, you know, he was coming up in, it's just like, you got, because if the whole ideas like you it was inevitable that these guys were going to hit big like i'm watching jersey boys and i'm like it does have a scene basically where cody scott scott mcfee uh stand in says he's white it is true um all right chris before we get into the plot and whatnot why don't you

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Never to be one of the best. So go on over to Patreon for turbulent brilliance and sign up at patreon.com slash this. had Oscar Buzz. Who loves you a pretty baby? We do. Very good. Yes. So we're going to be talking about Jersey Boys.

Tyler, in a few minutes, I'm going to ask you to deliver a 60-second plot description. But first, I'm going to sort of lay out the particulars of the film. 2014's Jersey Boys, directed by Clint Eastwood, written by Marshall Brickman and Rick Ellis, based on their original musical, which is based on the music of the four seasons, starring John Lloyd Young, Eric Bergen, Vincent Piazzi.

Michael Lomenda, Christopher Walken, Mike Doyle, among others. We mentioned Catherine Narducci. Starring, oh, no, wait, I left that from rest of the phone. It is not starring Marianne Cotillard and Matthias Shonarts. That was left over. Could you imagine. Could not imagine. Truthfully, could not imagine it.

Is it still Sony Pictures classics, or did it? No, it's a Warner Brothers movie, of course. Sorry, I copy-pasted, and this was a fun sense. Until David Zazlov forces Clint Eastwood to go. work with Sony. Which it might. Which you might. This premiered quite curiously, June 5th, 2014 at the Sydney International Film Festival for some reason.

I'm not entirely sure it was going on there. Before opening wide in the U.S. on June 20th, 2014, it opened number four behind, I believe this was the first weekend of Think Like a Man 2, then the second weekends of 22 Jump Street and How to Train Your Dragon 2. So this was a very sequely weekend that Jersey Boys finished fourth in. did finish one spot ahead of the fourth week of Maleficent. So Tyler, I'm going to grab my stopwatch and if you are ready, we can give you 60 seconds

to give the plot of Jersey Boys. Ready? Yeah, let's do it. All right, go. All right, so Jersey Boys, based on the Tony winning musical, is about the founding of the four seasons, sometimes known as Frankie Valley in the four seasons. Frankie Valley is the lead singer. There are a bunch of guys from Jersey who just love to harmonize.

Three of them are Italian. I think one of them is not. He's the writer. And it follows their, you know, meteoric rise to the top of the charts. And like four seasons, each member of the group gets to have their version of the story.

summer, summer warm and sunny and, like, summer and summer, cold and bleak, like winter. And, yeah, and also, as fun fact, Joe Pesci is apparently very instrumental in the founding of the four seasons, which is something I learned from this film directed by Clint Eastwood. All right, that's a minute. That's a minute. Very good. Thank you. Yeah, Pesci shows up with. Three of the members of the four seasons, I think the one who was not there was the songwriter, whose name was Bob, I think.

Sorry, I don't have my Wikipedia out in front of me right now. But anyway, so, and Pesci's sort of like, they're introducing the musical number. And so it's Pesci and Frankie Valley and the other two ones. And Pesci's like really getting up in his shtick. It's very, very funny talking about how, like, there wouldn't have been a band if it wasn't for me and la yada yada and um it's it's charming um but it also sort of reminds me just like man like pesci still had it at that moment he was just sort of like semi retired from acting but uh yeah bob gaudio was uh was the one who i believe was not there anyway um so i think it's what two of the four cast members in this were in the cast of the stage show john lloyd young i think about four weren't oh Okay, Vincent Piazza as well. They came from some iteration of the show.

Gotcha. Yeah. John Lloyd Young is the only one from the original Broadway cast, and he won the Tony. Yeah. And the guy who plays Tommy, I think, also won the featured Tony, who played Tommy in the... No, that's Christian Hoff who won the Tony. Right, that's what I mean. The guy who played that role.

Oh, okay. Right, right. Gotcha. No, Vincent Piazza, I knew from boardwalk. Empire, because I recapped that show for several years, and so, and he's pulling the exact same faces, and this, he played Lucky Luciano on Broadway Rec Empire, so he's pulling just the exact same faces. It's very similar.

And then, besides Christopher Walken, the only person I really recognized was Mike Doyle, who plays Bob Crew, who sort of pops up in a bunch of things. I remember him most from the invitation. Karen Kusama's the invitation. He's quite good in that. But he's the character who, when you meet him, because of course they're breaking the fourth wall constantly because you can't keep these guys out of your face.

You kind of need more of it too, because it's fairly constant in the show. And it's like you get a lot of punchlines that way. Breaking the fourth wall does not really seem like a device that works for East. Wood in particular, like an Eastwood movie where they break the fourth wall is kind of like. Eastwood was not into Goodfellas. You know what I mean?

Not for me. There were so many moments in this movie where I just wrote down the note of like, I bet this was this. I bet this killed in the theater. Like so many moments where we're just like a moment that felt like, oh, this was probably very funny in the theater. Like the scene where the tall one, who has the blow up with Tommy, and he yells at him about, you know, using all the towels in the hotel room and whatever. And I'm like, oh, I bet that was some big sort of like, you know, everything stops sort of moment in the live show. And I'm probably got a huge laugh.

And in this, it just sort of like sits there awkwardly because there's absolutely no comedic sensibility. to anything. Like, there's no comic relief at all because there's no sense of that kind of, you know, breaking tension or whatever. It just does not carry at all. And the movie hasn't established these characters very well, too,

that we know what's different about them, you know, enough to, like, have comic highs and lows and have, like, conflict that's interesting to watch because we don't know... Yeah. They just blur together in this kind of, Gray soup of a movie.

Yeah. And again, like, these are, say what you will about the music, but like, these are very well-known songs, you know what I mean? Like, they should carry with them some kind of a punch when you finally arrive at them. The one that sort of made me roll my eyes is they're at, they're at Bob Cruz House. Oh, that was what I was going to say is when you meet him, Bob Godhio sort of like turns to the camera and it's just like, I didn't think there, I didn't know. know that there were gay people or whatever. It's just like, or he doesn't even say gay people.

He's just like, as far as we knew, like, you know, we didn't know anything with strange. Whatever, it's just like, I don't know. I don't know. And also, like, the only gay thing that he does is when you immediately meet him and he goes, entree. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then, like, everything else is like, oh, like, this is just a guy.

He fixes them a flouncy drink. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Matt Doyle might, like, move his wrist. but, like, there's nothing... It's so funny. Remotely homosexual about him. But so, well, but this, too, because they're watching this Kirk Douglas movie and where

he, um, he slaps the woman and, uh, Vincent Piaz is like, a bitch, he's going to cry. And he's like, no, no, big girls don't cry. And then him and Godio turn to look at each other, like, uh, and I'm just like, oh, my God. Inspired by a gay guy. And again, that could work if there's other stuff in the movie that. like makes it fit and otherwise like it just comes across as insanely corny and it ultimately feels like this story because it's effectively the same script that's on Broadway it feels like it's stripped down to its studs in a way and by doing that it's like well you can't really tell

what's interesting about this that distinguishes it from any other musical biopic you know it's not even that it's cliche it's that it almost renders the Frankie Valley story. Yeah. Uninteresting. Well, and so this same year, again, having just watched that, Tony's, this same year was the History Boys year in drama. And so that was one where it wins the Tony in, what, June of 2006, by November, the movies

in theaters. So, like, that one that was this, like, quick turnaround. And History Boys, the movie, is essentially just, like, we put the play in, like, rooms, in, like, you know, houses and rooms and classrooms and whatever. Otherwise, if I remember correctly, they filmed it between the U.K. production and the U.S., yeah, which makes a ton of sense. But it's like, then at least you can understand they're trying to strike while the iron's hot. You know what I mean? It's, you know, there's never going to be more interest in the history of boys than right now. This makes sense where it's just like Jersey Boys has.

that feel of something that just got kind of rushed out the door, but it's coming eight years after, eight, nine years after this, you know, show made its Broadway debut. So it's like... And it ends up with Eastwood because Warner Brothers wins the right for the movie adaptation. So they go to their in-house people first. Well, it was originally going to be John Favreau. John Favro with a John Logan script. And it was going to be your your boy Paul Dano, Chris, was going to be... Oh, really? Was attached to with Paul Damage?

I would have lost my mind. I would have lost it. Paul Dammo. I mean, unfortunately, I would have watched a John Fabro movie. Yeah. I mean, John Fabro, unfortunately, I have to say, would have made a more... It would have made a better movie. Yeah.

I think. Yeah. Maybe not like... He would have been a better fit from the material. Yeah. Yeah. What the material kind of already wants to be. Because I do think that there, it ultimately gets to an interesting place that's maybe the last

10 minutes of the movie that you kind of realize, oh, this is kind of a journeyman's musical biopic in a way that it's like, it's not about Elvis, it's not about Ray Charles, it's not about Tina Turner, it's not one of the big, huge ones, but like, and yet it's still like within the musical fabric that everybody knows, you know, within America. But like, you have all of these musical numbers as they would have happened in real life. in like hotel ballrooms and you know these kind of shitty spaces you know they they play large theaters but you know by the end you also get the thing which they don't do on stage where they show up at the end as a reunion in old age makeup and it all feels kind of sad oh it's wild and

that to me kind of feels like what Eastwood is kind of trying to gesture at by the end of the movie of this idea of, you know, the results of putting in all these, all this year doesn't necessarily give you an interesting story or, I mean, they're so, they were so ubiquitous. I feel like in the 90s, like listening to like oldies stations, it was just like, oh yeah. I also worked. I also worked at a, at a drugstore, like the town drugstore and that played an old East station. Sure. So that's probably why I hate Frankie Valley. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But like, you know, in the 90s, there was like a very 50s kind of obsession briefly. I mean, even before like the swing movement kind of.

Oh, definitely. Like the mermaid soundtrack and like, yeah, you know. I definitely remember like, oh, what a night getting. Yeah, dirty dancing, you know. That's, oh, dirty dancing was an enduringly popular soundtrack. I remember, we used to listen to that at my aunt's house, like, all the time. We would listen to the dirty dancing soundtrack. And you're right.

Like, back when oldie stations felt more sort of like nowadays, you know, oldies is contaminated with stuff that's closer to, you know, when we were listening to things, which is crazy. We won't talk about that at all. But I do think that there is an element to where this movie gets to that you can recognize the east. would point of view. And it's like, especially if maybe he's trying to do his answer to a Scorsese movie or, you know, do the musical biopic and he's someone who has a legendary storied career. And he's probably the type of person who would tell you, well, it's not really all as fancy as it sounds like it is. It's a lot of hard work. It's a lot of resentments that build up over the years and your relationships don't stay that way. However, I think the problem there, And it's evident in the movie is that it misses a lot of the joy of that music that we kind of show up for. And I think people got that in the stage and they don't get it from this movie. Yeah. Well, I think the stage musical, it hit like, I mean, the demographic for that, for the, like, the Frankie Valley fans are like not going to go to a concert.

You know, they're going to go to a play for two hours and hear every single song. He's still giving them, though. You know, to this day. But, like, you know, if it's like a sure thing, it's like a moneymaker. I'm sure, you know, once Warner Brothers got this, and I think this is what I think is really interesting about Clint Eastwood, especially at the time that he was making these movies, he is just a studio movie maker. He's like aligned with ones. And he's like the only one left of this caliber with this like much history behind him. So it's really, it just feels like he was given this assignment because they were like, okay, Frankie Valley fans would are also of the same age of Clint Eastwood family.

and these are just names and put on a poster, everyone goes to see it. Because, you know, he's also making, like, I don't know, around this time, he's making a lot of, like, based on true stories. Right. Like, a lot of strings of stuff. And some of them are...

The mule and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the mule comes later. I think that, like, you know, but, like... But later this very year, he has the biggest hit of his career.

American Sniper, which is also one of his worst movies, I think. Yeah. Well, and it's one of those things. where, because you may, like, I think you're right in the idea that, like, he is just, he's a studio filmmaker who, when success comes to him, it is sort of like success is coming to him for versus the other way around where it's just like, he's not going out of his way to like court the Oscars with Mystic River. But all of a sudden, Mystic River comes around at a time when like that kind of a movie isn't being made as much. And when he, you know, sort of, you know, does it with

this, you know, incredibly starry cast. And with a. And with a. little bit of intentionality and with, you know, some sturdy mechanics to it, all of a sudden it's really impressive. And then Million Dollar Baby comes on the heels of that. So it takes all of that momentum and tells the story that is, again, really sturdy, but, like, is not reinventing anything. It is, you know, very much a sort of, like, you know, inspirational sports story that has this really tragic end to it, but that hit a chord too. And then it also had the caliber, too, had the caliber of Hillary Swank, who had already won an Oscar. And Clintis would starring in that and for in Freeman, it was the reunion of them.

So I think, again, like, he actually had, like, an incredible PR narrative around him in his movies for a long time. And he's kind of the only one left, like, even today, you know, he's the only one of his generation left standing like that. To the point where, like, I wouldn't rule it out that he could have, like, one. last hit just because the last few times he had hits, it's like you could have seen it go completely the other way. American sniper could have been just gone completely the other way and been, you know, rejected and ignored and all this sort of stuff. But it hit for whatever reason a nerve and it made a lot of money. And I think it was at a time when, you know, people voting for the Oscars, we're like, well, we can't deny, you know what I mean?

The success of this. That's why they opened up the Best Picture nominees to begin with. So the producers could be happy about saying the box office hits get picked up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, what beyond Best Picture that got Best Actor for Bradley, who again is like, you You know, if he does something, they'll probably give him a nomination at this point. He's got 12 of them. And it was still fairly late breaking for that movie because it was a limited Christmas release.

And then it was over, like, President's Day weekend that that movie went wide and made all that crazy money. That was 2014. I think that's very much like, as we're saying the rise of Trumpism and watching things get politicized. Like, I remember working at Decider, which was New York Post. And, like, I was like, okay, I have to go see this. and like, me saying I didn't like it was like enough to just like rile people up. Oh, I bet. Ah, I bet.

Yeah. Oh, it did get six nominations. It did. Yeah. It wasn't for Sound dead today. Yes. But not Eastwood for director, which I think is interesting. And if it had had like another week or so, it would have been interesting to see if Bradley Cooper could have caught a little more wind as well.

Right. Because that's where like things were kind of shifting at the end of voting. one of those weird years where you have Eddie Redmayne winning for the theory of everything. Right. Right. So, and Birdman won, you know, yeah, weird. It's a weird time. But even like that was the first year since they expanded it to 10 that they had a director

nominee who wasn't a best picture nominee because they nominated Bennett Miller for Foxcatcher, even though Foxcatcher wasn't a picture nominee. And that's another one where I wonder where Clint fit in the voting for that. Like where, you know, of the best picture nominated directors who didn't get the director nomination, like I would be interested to see where he landed. I mean, you know, I've, since I've been in L.A. and like kind of working in the award space, I've only, I started THR in 2019, so Richard Juell came out. Sure.

I kind of surprised everyone, like Kathy Bates was nominated. Yeah. I thought it could, you know, it could be a possible best picture. nomination, even an actor nomination for Paul Watser Hauser. Sure, yeah. It's the power of the macarena. Yeah, Clintese was not

campaigning. You know, he's not going out. He doesn't need to. He doesn't give a shit. Right. This is just, I think that he I think he views the work is just like, this is his job. He's won three Oscars at two, at least two. Two for directing, yes. Yeah. He didn't win

he may have produced Unforgiven, too, so he would have won Yeah, that sounds about right. I think he's won as a producer. He's never one for score somehow. No, which is, I mean, that's also interesting to me because he's like, you know what, like, I'm actually going to put my love of music to good use. Yeah.

Unfortunately, he is kind of more of a slow time jazz guy. He really loves his slow time jazz. The toe tap in and fingers tap him of the four seasons. The other kind of wild thing about this movie in terms of his filmography is it's three years out from Jay Edgar, and at that point, as a director, he didn't take breaks that long. Yeah. Well, he had trouble with the curve. Oh, no, he produced that.

He didn't direct that, sorry. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. But he had to take the time to, like, you know, be in it. Be an actor. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. But it's like that you come back with this, a movie that doesn't, you know, at least on its face, like I can kind of try to reach for a reason that it pulls into, you know, his normal themes that he's interested in, but, like, it doesn't fit comfortably within not only what he's interested in, but, like, what you would ask this man to do. Yeah. No, it feels to me like a job he picked up because he wanted to buy or pay off something. You know, I mean, it's just a very odd.

Yeah. Or somebody at Warner Brothers was like, hey, Clint, do us a solid. We need a director for Jersey Boys. Maybe he came in and was like, I love Sully. I don't know. But it could be, I mean, again, that's what I think is sort of fascinating about him is that it's like such like, it is such a corporate studio career that he's had. He's had these massive hits that I do think that the studios were, you know, I think are still able to produce if they had good people. Right.

I think that I think that Clint Eastwood is an example of like what happens when you have a really good mainstream studio thinking about like what the mainstream will want. don't think about it as just, like, we have to release it at this period because of Oscar, you know, consideration. Like, he, at this point, he is not making movies, like, he doesn't care about an Oscar, you know. I think even Million Dollar Baby was probably a little bit of a fluke for him. And Mystic River, too. Like, I think that those two, I just don't know what his, like, involvement in, like, the campaigning was. Right. I think the studio sort of took that ball, those two balls and ran with it.

The kind of weird outlier, aside from Jersey Boys, to this, that I would be curious to revisit is hereafter. That's one I have not seen, so... Because it's just really out there in terms of, like, having this kind of spiritualism bent that doesn't really align to anything else. It's hard... I think it's harder to peg down than this as something essentially Eastwoodian. Well, I think there was a point which, and certainly the, you know, yelling at the chair at the... Republican convention didn't help this, where Clint's personal politics started getting wrapped up in assessments of his movies. And I think he tends to be somebody who like does not

mix those very intentionally. Like maybe sometimes you're going to get something that feels like it's, you know, a little bit of a maybe a tell towards his, you know, sort of personal feelings about things, but like a movie like Unforgiven is obviously this like reckoning with these ideals of the Western, right? The, you know, the violence of it, the, the imperialism of it, like all of that kind of stuff. And American Sniper, while being, I think, ideologically very muddled, certainly whenever he talked about it, he talked about it. He talked about it in these very sort of like non-hawkish terms just about how, you know, the soldiers who come home and, you know, we're failing them and all this sort of stuff. And it's, it becomes an interesting

sort of thread through when he throws out a movie like Cry Macho or Grand Tarino or something like that, where you're sort of tempted to look at it and just be like, you know, old man Clint yelling at the youth again or whatever the hell. But it always seems to be a little bit more complicated than that with him. And I think it just sort of goes back to what you were saying about just like, he's not really anuteur, you know what I mean? Like he's not really making these movies to like tell you what he thinks about the world. You know what I mean?

He's doing a job. My interpretation of his politics is he just seems very, libertarian to me. He's just like, you know, he's living in California long enough. He's not a full-fledged, like, Maga-Republican, although he did support Trump the first time around. But I see threads of that throughout a lot of his work. I mean, he is, especially like later, like the last 20 years, like very, um, has complicated feelings towards, like, authority, especially Richard George is a perfect example. Yes. I think he, again, as a storyteller, I think, because he, you know, he has to understand how good storytelling works. He's always interested in the gray areas. And, like, I think of like Mystic River, you know, the real twist of that movie is Laura Linney. You sit there for like two hours and be like, why are you wasting her time and hours with her?

And like, and she delivers like the entire like thesis of the movie, which is like, it's fucking complicated. And it's sorry, you got to look out for yourselves and the people you love. Yeah. So it is really interesting that, like, he kind of had this period where he's like, I'm going to make these biopics of like, with like Jay Edgar and Jersey Boys and American Sniper and Sully and 15 to 17 to Paris where they're like very specific moments of like heroism. Right. But I think it's interesting because like the heroes are always kind of people. I mean, maybe American sniper.

I mean, that's where it gets muddled because he's a Marine. or whatever. But he still is sort of like a solo person who was like trying to do his best or maybe go against what he's been told. He's not going to wave the flag for anything. He's going to sort of like tell the story of whatever individual is being, you know, affected by whatever. I mean, the man made two movies about Iwo Jima, one from the Japanese side from the American side. And the Japanese one is vastly better. It is.

Like, so, I mean, that is like an art film, and that movie is beautiful. It is. It's very, very beautiful. And so even when I think, you know, I'm making my way through his older stuff, like, I've seen all of the, the dirty Harry's, which he didn't direct all of them. And, like, I think Sunderlock is, his relationship with Sunderlock is very interesting because it was sort of tragic for her. But, like, they worked together and, like, he made some wild-ass movies with her. Like, there's one Dirty Harry where she is the villain. And she is the victim of, like, a gang rape.

And she's basically like, she's killing, she's a serial killer who's, I think, like, avenging either herself or, like, killing other rapists. Like, she's a vigilante. Either way, she's a vigilante. And Dirty Harry has to go, like, find her. And, like, he's like, I, like, that is, like, the central issue that he has is, like, well, she's kind of right. Like, yeah. So, I don't know. There's just really interesting stuff.

And, like, that's what Unforgiven is, too. Like, he's ultimately this terrible man who's trying to, you know, hide a run away from his past. And then he's forced into having to repeat it. Yeah. And hoping, you know, telling himself that he's doing it, you know, the Gene Hackman character is worse than he is. Right, right. I think that that's something that I think, like, that's really interesting. The time that he started making movies was when movies started getting really interesting.

and fucked up and weird. And he was, like, play Missy for me. Yes. Let's talk about her. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Insane character. Insane performance.

Yeah. And he also made Roberta Flack famous with that movie. Like, that is, like, he had such an interesting finger on the pulse of just, like, moving it forward in this very, like, specific studio space that should have been very lame at this. Yeah. And tame. Well, and even what his, his, work with actors, which, you know, he really does have his moments. And he seems on occasion

to be very dedicated to giving actors, you know, because he's sort of famously, like, doesn't do a lot of takes, sort of like moves it along very quickly. And you sometimes get the sense that that, you know, is not, would come to the detriment of actors. But you look at a movie like bird where, you know, he seemed very, very dedicated to giving Forrest Whitaker this, you know, a great platform. He gets Merrill's best performance out of her, like. Exactly. And the most, yes, yes.

And, and the, like, to the point of the moral gray area that, like, he's interested in that, like, actors are interested in that, too. So that's why they show up for, like, they always, even in his worst movies, the actors are great. like yeah he was he seemed very very dedicated to the project of like getting morgan freeman that oscar like he may not have cared about the Oscars about anything else but i remember around that time being like that seemed to be the enthusiasm for him that like his friend morgan um would would finally you know get his Oscar for that which is cool um yeah i think

going back to sort of the 2014 of it all so you get American sniper sort of coming in very late. But like Jersey Boys is all, like, it's not like American Sniper sort of took Jersey Boys' slot, right? Jersey Boys was kind of

a non-factor. We would have probably had to have taken it more seriously if it was a fall movie than a summer movie, but like... Well, and you wonder if, because there was the sense with American Sniper was sort of how it was with a million dollar baby, where

it's like, and sort of what it was like with letters from Iwo Jima, where it's like, if Clint's finished with it in time, you know, we'll get it. Otherwise, you know, we might not. So there wasn't. Well, because what was it that AFI that the premiere of both American sniper and Selma happened on the same day at AFI Fest? And both of them were like rushing to get the print done. And I don't think either of them had final credits.

That was such an unsettled year in general. because obviously Boyhood hits at Sundance that year. And for the longest time, it was, well, do you think Boyhood could possibly get a nomination? Because it's, you know, it's Link Letter who had never really been an Oscar guy before. It's this, you know, sort of unusual production model or whatever. But it's undeniably a movie that, like, was hitting with audiences and, you know, at Sundance. And then at some point along the way, it was kind of the only movie on people's predictions that had opened. So I think at some point it kind of like backed its way into this weird momentary front rudder status,

even though I don't think anybody actually thought it was ever going to win best picture. And so Birdman becomes one of a small handful of movies that, like, laid in the game. people were like, because I think at some point people thought that like the imitation game was going to like really like hit and become like the thing. Oh, did I freeze? Joe, if you can hear us, you froze. You're whistling a happy tune. When I froze, what was I talking about? We were talking about 2014.

Right. And like how boyhood was just sort of like came in there because it was like the one that had been out already. So it was just like on a lot of people's lists. Right. And so we were sort of waiting for whatever was going to be the thing to take over. And I think for a while there, there was some assumption that like the imitation game was going to be a big hit at the fall festivals. And that was like mild, you know, sort of a mild. This is what I meant this year when I said.

that Anora was going to do the Birdman thing, that it was just like, it's just taking, it just needs to wait a while and it will be the one, even if at first people don't feel like it could go all the way. Bergman had such a weird arc to it because I feel like it was really, really hyped initially. And then quickly, you know, for lack of a better term, the backlash sort of came for it.

And then the defense of it came back up again. And then it wasn't even, it wasn't until, I think it won that golden globe for musical or comedy. Then all of a sudden, people were back on to like, oh, Birdman can, can win it all kind of a thing. So, I was not, I was like not as deeply invested in Oscars at this point. So I, like, look back on this. I'm like, I have fuzzy memories. I remember writing about how much I hated Birdman at the time. But I'm like, this was a, this was a kind of a bleak year.

It's a very, very odd. It's just, I mean, and I'm trying to remember, like, what else was good. And, like, Wild. Wild is good. I loved Wild. I loved Wild. I loved Wild. I loved Wild.

I loved Wild. I loved, I watched it, like, once a year. Um, Nightcrawler and Whiplash were interesting. But, like, yeah, it's just such an odd. I remember. I remember. And the judge. Oh, I know.

Oh, I know. I remember when Selma, when Selma premiered, they very sort of quickly got that film out there, too late for, I believe, SAG screeners. I think that was one of the cases, every once in a while you'll get that movie that's too late for SAG screeners. But I remember they had a screening for it in New York that I somehow got invited to, even though I was not in the habit of getting invited to screenings. And they had like, you know, the filmmakers were there and like the filmmakers' families were there. And it had this sort of very much had this feel of a kind of low-key premiere, even though this was just a critic screening. But I think they were so intent on trying to sort of like whip up that last minute sort of like best picture surge. And I remember feeling like, oh, this could do it.

Like, watching the movie in that environment, like, I got really wrapped up in it. I remember walking out of there being like, that's going to win Best Picture. Like, you know, I was getting my David Poland on or whatever, just like making rash predictions with absolutely no foundation. And then it comes to Oscar nomination morning. And it's like Best Picture nomination and one other nomination and that's it. And it won the other one. It won Best Song. It did.

It did. We all remember where we were when the glory came. What were the other nominations that year? Chris Pine's Stoic. I have it up on, I have it up on Wikipedia now because I was obsessed. Everything is awesome from the Lego movie. Sure. Grateful from Beyond the Lights by 16-time nominee Diane Warren.

That's right. That's right. I'm not going to miss you from Glenn Campbell. I'll be me. God. And then lost stars from Begin Again. Right, which I remember really liking, both the song and the movie. That nomination.

always makes me think that the John Carney movie is going to get a song nomination. Oh, it has not since. It has not since. If that Diane Warren song got, was this year's Diane Warren song, we would be like, this is so much better than everything she's been doing for the last decade. Like, Grateful was like, even in its mediocrity is so many steps above what the last few years of Diane Warren songs have been. That, like, it, it, that one and, well, the Lady Gaga song, which should have won, but it's not a great song. I don't know.

I mean, yeah, I, this was the first year that I hadn't either interviewed her myself or booked an interview with her in five years. Wow. But I did see her driving. I did see her driving her giant, like, Mercedes Jeep on Sunset Boulevard. Oh, my God. One day. Headed to her. Scarflowing in the breeze and whatnot.

I feel like it's... What an icon. Yeah. What an icon. Yeah. To kind of loop it back to Jersey Boys, I want to talk a little bit about the idea of casting people who had already been performing in the show. And again, only one of them from the original Broadway cast. And usually when we think about that, like, we talk about, you know, the original cast.

Like, and there's been obviously great examples of that. There's been bad examples of that. The Rent movie, take your pick of what that is. Like, this even goes back to the ID, to like the 60s when you have Julie Andrews not getting cast in the My Fear Lady movie. People have very strong opinions about it. Yeah. And the... Hello Dahlia with Barbara.

Yes, 100%. Because she lost that Tony to Carol Channing and then takes care. Gerald Channing's role. John Lloyd Young is, you can see how this could be a Tony winning performance, but, you know, when it's in Clint Eastwood close-ups, send Clint Eastwood wide shots, and, you know, he's never been in a movie before, so he's not Laura Linney who can show up and get one take and be able to, like, nail it with every, with a circus going on around you. Yeah.

And then these other performers that, like, we've talked about. how the characters aren't necessarily distinguished. It's just such a, I think it's kind of the last nail in the coffin of this movie in a way before, like, you even get to the other nails. Well, you also have the thing of Frankie Valley and Bob Gaudio were both very involved in the production of it. They were executive producers. I imagine they had a lot of say-so. I imagine they had a lot of, you know, approval and whatnot. And I can't remember whether they were similarly involved on a producing level with the musical, but it would not surprise me.

There was some weird fact about Bob Gauta's son was scalping tickets. Yes. Oh, my God. I wrote that down. Yes. Incredible story where, yeah, they wanted to maybe. He was like banned from the show. It was Nick Massey. So it was Nick Massey, Jr. expressed interest in playing his father

but was not seriously considered in part because of past incidents in which he had attempted to scalp tickets at Jersey Boys stage shows and caused backstage disruption. Boy, oh boy. Incredible. But I feel like that probably also comes

the involvement of Frankie Valley and people from the group into the production. You see this all the time, you know, with these sort of semi-authorized or fully authorized biopics. And in this case, I wonder if it contributes to this idea of, like, we're not really, the show or the film is not really free to sort of draw out more interesting characters

because you have people being like, don't say that, don't put that in there, blah, blah, you know, make sure that this happens. And you ultimately end up with, and, and, and, at, And weirdly enough, sometimes it feels like the other way around where it's just like, I'm kind of shocked that the Tommy character is depicted in this way with like no redeeming value. And, you know, I keep, I'm constantly being like, why do they keep this guy around? He doesn't write the songs. He's, you know, racking up all of these debts. He's, you know, he's a powder keg waiting to go off.

He's just constantly trouble. He doesn't like Bob at all. He never did. And it's just like, what are you doing? And I think the movie just needs to do a better job of like telling, show me why Frankie, you know, sticks with him. Because you don't really give any of that even in the beginning of the movie at all. Yeah, they're not really characters. I mean, it doesn't, I mean, I can't, again, I can't imagine this on stage, but it doesn't imagine, I can't imagine them being characters on stage either.

It's more about the songs and the beats. And, like, again, like, there's something very fundamental. different about a stage performance yeah uh versus film obviously but like he you know i think i could see why he was great why he would win a tony for like basically leading this ensemble cast where's like hearing that voice is different when you're in the same space as that voice too you know yeah also i'm saying here being like who else would have played these guys like they the reason why they didn't cast anyone else because there's like

no other actors. Right. They would have to do, like, a huge search and, like, they're not, it's, like, not that big of a deal. Like, this is, right, just, like, we're just trying to print money here. We're not trying to, like, do it. And yet, I'm also scared just, like, put your name on it. So, yeah, I do think it would maybe solve some of that problem if you're dealing with

some recognizable faces and not, like, super movie stars, but character actors we've seen before or, like, young performers that we've seen before, you know, like, this is coming a few years off of the hairspray movie. It's like we had seen Britney Snow before, you know, and then you have the one person who's the new face, right? Right. Well, it's sort of, it does not have the problem, you mentioned Rent, it does not have the problem that the Rent movie had, which was everybody looking 15 years older than

what they, you know, needed to be. When they're supposed to be, like, 19 years old. Sheepers. So it's like Jersey Boys, you don't really, like, you can have a wider span of, you know, of ages. It still wilds me out that John Lloyd Young beat out Michael Cerveris and Sweeney Todd that year. Like that, I understand why, of course, because like, you know, Jersey Boys was such a crowd pleaser and whatnot. But that category, if you look at that category. So, like, those two were the top two contenders.

And then it was Harry Connick Jr. for the pajama game. Stephen Lynch for the wedding singer and Bob Martin for drowsy chaperone. So like, you know, I whatever. I'm not the biggest Harry Connick Jr. fan, so I probably am going to be a little bit more negative on that. I remember Stephen Lynch was like

that like singing comedian guy who like they gave the leading role in the wedding singers. It's like putting Jimmy Fallon on. Yes, it very much is, yes. But not famous. But then you look at lead actress in a musical that year. And that was the year that like Lashon's wins for

color purple beats out Sutton Foster for drowsy chaperone patty for Sweeney Todd O'Hara for Pajama game and Kelly O'Hara who had been nominated multiple times and won two and Cheetah Rivera for one of her many you know this is me singing and dancing you know reviews um but like that's a banger category right there particularly because watching yeah that's five theater legends well on Sutton Foster's drowsy chaperone performance is like so good on that on that Tony's like she's just killing it. So, and then you look at, like, yeah, I can understand why John Lloyd Young would beat

out servers, even though serverists got, like, crazy good reviews, and, like, people were kind of wild for that performance. But, you know, and then what's his face? Christian Hoff wins for a featured actor over Danny Burstein, Jim Dale, Brandon Victor Dixon, Manuel Feliciano. Where are these people now? Where are these boys now? What are they doing?

Well, truly, yeah. Yeah, what is? What is? Michael Severus is fine. He's fine. He's fine. But where's this kid? Yeah, it's true.

With his Brown University education, let me see. What is John Lloyd Young doing these days? Yeah, I don't know, man. Crazy. Probably a Frankie Valley review somewhere. Honestly, if he's smart, yes. He could do Vegas. Park your ass in Vegas and stay there, man.

Yeah, like, absolutely. Absolutely. Good for him. Good for John Lloyd. I mean, he is a good singer, and he sings these parts really well. It's also, he's, I think, an untested screen talent also being asked to age on screen. You know, it just kind of, you really have to, like, take the ball and run with it, and you have to have a performer who's really going to nurture you, and that's not really Eastwood's thing. Yeah, and also, like, the problem, I mean, sort of the fatal flaw. of musicals, especially of this period of Broadway,

is that there's too much happening. They, like, move at, like, the fastest pace. There's no character whatsoever. No. I mean, I remember, I remember, like, character is punchline. People complaining about this musical so much because they were like, the book is just them,

the actors telling you what's happening in between the scenes. There's, like, no actual story. Yeah. So then you, like, and that's sort of okay on stage. Like, you can, I think you can, you can, at least I do this. I'm much more forgiving about what I see on stage. Because it's like, I get it. It's like a three hour period. You're in the room. You're swept up. They do find a way to make that show keep moving and it moves very fast. It's a very fast-paced show. I'm sure you're swept up with like the in-person

performances. Whereas then, yes. And I will say this and I'm, it's maybe a controversial opinion, but I think Wicked, the smartest thing they did, was breaking it up into two movies because... Oh, do tell. That would have been insane. That would not have been good. That would have been a mess. Like, the fact that all of the first...

And look, I was the biggest Wicked. I was like, no, I refuse to the show. And the movie was out. When people were... I missed the screenings and people were like, it's going to get best picture. I was like, fuck you. No, it shouldn't.

They took three hours of musical. making five hours of movies. It's for money. Like, it's just let them have the money. And I saw it. And I was like, God damn, fuck. They were right?

And I think that they were really smart to stretch out that first act. I think it's a financial decision they were. Well, yeah, A was a financial decision. But I think, too, or B, I can't imagine all that happening in like an hour and a half. That seems insane to me. Oh, no.

Like, it would definitely have been like, a 3.5 hour movie or whatever. Right. So just make it into two. Who cares? Why not? And like, and people are going to see it. So, you know, you're airing on the side of more, which is probably right. I think, like, for a film, like, you needed those, it was really important for you to understand who those characters were and why they made the choices that they make. And I think if you would squeeze, shorten that down into like a one act thing, I think it would not have worked. I just feel like turning the Edina Menzel, Kristen Chen with cameo into a minute instead of 15 minutes would have probably been okay. But no, you make a good point there.

I wanted to double back to your thing about the jukebox musicals for a second because what it makes me think of is something like The Share Show, which has a very similar structure. and I had a really good time in the room in that, but I would be mortified at the idea of turning the Cher show into a movie because, like, what is that? Like, what are you talking about? It's like, we already have Burles. Yeah, the share show works because it's three different people.

Right. That wouldn't make sense in a movie. I never saw the share. I had left. The share show belongs in, like, a share theme park. In, like, whatever Shares version of Dollywood is, like, the share show should play. in perpetuity there forever.

And just, that's fine. The most ill-behaved audience I've ever experienced was at the share show, by the way. Those ladies, just moms upon moms of being as drunk as I've ever seen people in a theater. Hell, yeah. They can't go to concerts anymore. Yep. So they go to the share show. That's what these were for.

They lived it up. Yeah. Yeah. I generally as a rule was like, I did not see jukebox musicals. I did see beautiful, the Carol King's story. It was fine. I mean, Jesse Mueller is great. Yeah, she's great.

Still sounded like Jesse Mueller. It wasn't just like an impression. Sure. But. There's also an element of Carol King while having, you know, one of the most successful and popular albums of all time. I don't think everybody who knows her music, like in their bones, knows her story. Yeah, and she has an actually interesting stories. Yeah.

Very much so. These guys. Yes. It's the typical story. Right? And even by the end of it, the characters telling it are somewhat ambivalent about the telling of it, you know? Well, the ambivalence, I think, is so apparent because you get this thing where half the time I keep waiting for it to break out into like, while we were making music, we were doing these, you know, these jobs for the local like hoods or whatever. And it's like, well, that didn't really happen. And they don't really feel like, you know, fabricating it too much.

so they don't, you know, go there. But then the other side of things, they don't go. Like, the thing that was special about the four seasons was that they were just this hit factory, right? So, like, so maybe talk about that. Talk about, like, you know, the, I mean, this isn't always, it's not always successful to do that we're going to make our movie about how, about writing songs. But something about, because you get that thing when Nick leaves the band, where he's in the car and he does the little. talk to the camera about how, like, when you're in a four-person group and you're the Ringo, like that kind of thing.

But he mentions the, like, they're so talented, Frankie and Bob, that they'll be fine no matter what are they doing. And it's just like, you can't just tell that, though. You have to, like, actually, like, put in the work of letting us see the magic that they're making when they sort of dig out. And beyond just, like, you know, hearing the words, big girls don't cry. And that turns into a, you know, into a. song or whatever. But I think that that, I mean, Chris, is that something that sort of inherited from

the stage show is just like telling you exactly what happened? That structure, yeah. It's split evenly between the four different members and it, and, you know, the final portion is the Frankie Valley portion and it kind of becomes the thing that the audience always kind of wants it to become. Right. I do think that that is the best portion of the movie where it feels like Clint knows what to do with that and has his own points of view and he kind of struggles through the like character stuff.

I think, I can't take my eyes off of you is a really like well set up number. And then when it kicks in, it's just like, it's just Clint lingering on these shots of seniors. It's the least interesting way to present any song. It's like the buildup is like, oh, great. We're finally going to get a great musical number

in this and it just doesn't get there. And then you get. But to the end, after the old age makeup or whatever, you hit the credits and this like, whatever, mid credits, during the credits song where they essentially do the first wives club, you don't own me, where they go walking out and dancing into the streets or whatever. It's just a back lot. Which is what the movie should have been, exactly, where all of a sudden they're just like, you know, talking to each other and the, you know, the veil between fiction and whatever is thin and all this sort of stuff. And, like, that's at least fun. That's the most, like, animated the movie ever gets. And it's while the credits are rolling.

So, great. The weirdest number is how my eyes adored you is used. Remind me. It's first used him singing to his young daughter. My eyes adored you. I never laid a hand on you, but my eyes adored you. And then it gets a reprise when she dies. It's unexpected.

and it's just I understand they're trying to find the way to work the ballad in buddy and to work this idea that like well this major event has happened and so now we have to have the song

that we perform here feel like it is a major event that the living person probably thought was essential to be included in the show etc etc and they fudge the timeline to sort of make it happen when it does like I

right um but yeah i think the movie does not have an easy time sort of fitting in songs like you know cherry baby and dawn and whatever like that like into the story because that it's it's a ridiculous task you know what i mean these aren't songs yeah those songs they can't be story or no and they they're not load bearing songs in any way condensed period of time too that you know whereas like you look at the carol king uh film or the film it will be one but it was supposed to be one with lisa cholodenko and i don't think it's happening oh well she's no clini swit that's why clini swuts the kids are all right i'd be very interested to see what that would be

his high i would love to see lisa cholodenko's uh i'd be a lisa cholodenko's i would just like to see lisa cholodenko do another movie yeah that would be nice please yeah that'd be nice But no, I think that what works with that show is that there are stories around the songs, you know? Like, even when she's writing songs, like, he hit me, it felt like a kiss. It's because of, like, one of the girls in that group basically said that. Right, right. So there's, like, there's, like, reasons for the songs to be in that show, whereas, like, there's no reason for Sherry Baby to exist except for the fact that it's Sherry Baby. Right, right, exactly, because it was a hit.

It should have been a Maggie Gillen Hall musical. got, Maggie Gyllenhaal sings the songs of the four seasons. I'm into it. That's what the bride's going to be. Yeah, like a Mamma Mia, but with Maggie Gillenhall. The bride of Frankenstein sings the hits of the Brill Building era. Yeah, I'm into it. I'm super into it.

I mean, who loves you is a great finale number, though. Like, it feels like that crazy falsetto that that number ends on is half of the reason why the show was a hitch like yeah it's such a perfect finale number can we talk about the scene with frankie and his wife on the stairs at home when she's has her big sort of like meltdown you know monologue throws her wedding ring at him it's so bad it's so bad um it's trebesique particularly because again the rest of the film has not prepared you for something to hit this sort of you know temper Um, she's really going for it, man, in that scene. I, I, um, I had to look away at some point. It was tough. Um, what else do I have here

on my notes? Oh, can we talk about how it was executive produced by Brett Ratner and Steve Munchit. Yes. I took that screenshot and I sent it to the grid chat. I was like, holy shit. That's so terrifying. Oh, man. I'm used to the Steve Munchin. Also, I- sort of jump scares, but. I recognize, obviously, I saw the Clint Eastwood cameo where they're watching Rahide and they see Clint Easton on the TV.

And I saw in a letterbox review that Joe Pesci actually says, funny how. Oh, yes. So, like, they really, really love to remind you that, like, the Joe Pesci of it all, right? Joe Pesci will become someone. Will become, yeah. You'll be like, why? What? This anecdote?

in his life? Well, and Tommy DeVito's his character's name in Goodfellas, right? Like, that's the whole, you know, they got, they got it from, yeah. Yeah. The note that I wrote down about the singing, too, was because obviously the Frankie Valley sort of voice, the sort of the

Four Seasons's voice, is a very specific, you know, type of singing. And they do that enough, but then when the other singers come in, oftentimes it's just in like Broadway voice. It's like musical theater voice.

And it's weird whenever that sort of like comes in because then all of a sudden that like knocks you right out of whatever kind of spell has been cast by, you know, oh, we're listening to the, you know, to the music of the four seasons. And then it's like, oh, and now we're listening to like somebody's 54 below show. And it's a whiplash. Conversely, the sequence when they're going into the rock and roll hall of fame, We hear a track of Oh, What a Night, and it's the actual track. Yes.

Not the actors singing it. Right. Which is a choice. Also, very bizarre choice. And that leads up to the world's longest pre-handshake stare between old Frankie and old Tommy. Just, just Clinton was going to let them have their time, and that was nice. What else do I have here? Oh, okay.

So I watched, skipped to the end of the Tony Awards to watch Jersey Boys win. And then so it plays through to the end of the telecast. And then immediately after this Tony Awards telecast, we go into local news, of course. And the, you know, they do the tease at the top of the thing. So the three top stories were, dance star is attacked and beaten somewhere. Jesus. A boat made famous by Doris Day sinks off the coast of Malibu. What a horrible thing to call Rock Hudson.

And male stripper murdered at a bachelorette party. What a horrible thing to call Rock Hudson. It just seemed like a very grim set of news for Post-Toney Awards. Like, I just, I don't know. I don't know. What else do we have to say about Jersey Boys before we wrap it up? God, yeah. I think we should get more summer musicals.

I think Rock of Ages is the one that killed it. Well, killed something. Well, okay, so here's where... This was the era of summer musicals. We got hairspray. We got Mamma Mia. Definitely. We got this.

Got Rock of Ages. We are getting a third Mamma Mia, right? Like, that's definitely happening, right? I think they've said they want to do it, or at least Seifred said she wants to do it. Let's get a move on, folks. Like, come on. What songs are... They're just going to reuse the songs again, right?

I mean, they did. Sure. There's a ton more Abba songs they could use. Yeah, but, like, third-tier ABA is, like, really third-tier up. No, just do Vule-Vu again. Like, I'm fine with it. You know what I mean? Yeah, they're going to... Yeah, bring them back.

Do, you know, winner takes it all again. I really hate Mamma Mia one. Mama Mia 2 rocks because it's a next... Mama Mia 2 is very... No, Mama Mia, the first one is bad. The actual director, the first director, I mean, again, like... Yeah, the reason why theater directors shouldn't make movies. And then she went on to make the Iron...

lady, which is also terrible. Not a movie. Not a functioning film. No, but Mamma Mia, here we go again. It's so fun. But my mother loved Mamma Mia so much. She doesn't even like Abba. But she and her friends loved Mamma Mia

and they all bought each other copies of it on DVD. And my mother ended up with like three copies of Mamma Mia for Christmas. Well, and also like... And the soundtrack. She doesn't... She's like, sometimes I just listen to the soundtrack. I don't even listen to the opera of one.

I listen to like... Bruce Brosnan. I was like, phenomenal. The songs are good. The songs are actually good. Pierce Brosnan's singing is like some type of mating call among large mammals. But also, that's how you do a jukebox musical in a way that I'm going to be interested in, right? It's just like.

Not taking itself seriously. Well, not telling the Abba story. You know what I mean? Just like paste it onto a story of something else. Like, give me something. Well, because jukebox musicals in movies just become musical biopaping. Yes. The concept of a jukebox music group does not exist. Like Mamma Mia is the only one. Right, right. But like that's fun. Well, Mulan Rouge.

Yes, that is fair. Mulan Rouge, the show everybody hates and I love so much. I didn't see. Surely there is another. Well, across the universe. Across the universe is another one. Oh, God. Yeah. Terrible. I hate that movie. What a weird. What a weird film that is. Terrible. We got to do that as a. an exception. We really do have to do that as an exception at some point soon. Yes. Did that just so I can. Yeah, what was it? Costumes. Cossumes. Of course. Julie Tamor is going to get a costume nomination. That is, uh, I don't think that's even her. No, but I mean like her movies. Like, because she's, all of her movies get something. Titus got nominations. Tempest got a makeup nomination. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's why it's so hard for us. We can't do any Julie Tamer movies on Maine. Um, what was her, was, did she make anything after Tempest?

I don't know. It feels like the Spider-Man experience put her in all types of director jail. Yeah, nobody was going to let her do anything anymore after that. All right, Chris, do you want to explain the rules for the IMDB game, and we can get ready to do that? Yeah, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough.

It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. What if I had just done that all in Foltzito? Thank you for not. I'm really glad you didn't. Yeah. All right. Tyler, as our guest, you are going to get first crack at whether you want to give your clue first or guess first. and in which direction this round ramen will go in?

I will give first, and I've been stressing out about this all day, I have to say. Okay. Mostly because I had two options, and one I've ultimately decided it is way too hard, but I was, like, kind of excited about it. I was like, we deserve one, like, giving us a way too hard one is all, is only what we deserve. Well, I feel like even I wouldn't, like, I could get some of them, but I couldn't get all of them. I'm like, that's not fair. If I can't even, like, come close. I'll talk about it later, but I'll go first, and I will give to Joe.

I think this is going to be, this will be pretty, I think this is easy. But, all right. My connection was thinking of Frankie Valley and what other great films has he known for. I immediately thought of Greece. I don't think you've done this person, but I was going to throw out Stocker Channing. Oh, my love, my love for Stocker Channing. All movies? All movies, yeah.

All movies. Okay, so I imagine Greece is one of them. Grace is one of them. I hope six degrees of separation is one of them. That is also one of them. Okay, okay. Now it gets tough. Um, what have we, like, she's in, like, La Divorce, but I can't imagine La Divorce is on her known for.

Could you imagine? I can't. Practical magic. So, apparently, if you are an IMDB pro, user, you can set your own. Yeah, I don't like... So what if she has an IMDP Pro membership and was like, I loved my work in the Lidivore? Wait, I'm guessing Practical Magic, though.

Yes, Practical Magic is one of them. Okay, all right, okay. So I've got three for three. Can I come home with it? There was that movie she did with Julia Stiles that was like such a small little indie, but I remember it got like some sort of precursor stuff. but I don't think that's big enough to guess it. And she's in like...

What else is she in, like, 80s-wise? But I don't know if I want to go back to that. Oh, oh, is it too Wong-Fu? Thanks for Everything, Julie Numer? No. Fuck. Should be. Is it where the heart is?

It is. It is? Oh, okay. There you go. I have not seen it. I have, like, clicked through, and I was like, well, she's just top build on the, on the poster. That's crazy.

That's crazy where the heart is. The hard one I was going to do with Sondra Locke. Oh, wow. Yeah, I would have had a lot of trouble with that. I've seen two of them. I would have, could have guessed one. I have not gone through this, the Sondra Locks of the Eastwoods filmography, so I don't know. In the Clint Cave, it's back far in the back.

I am appalled on multiple levels At the most recent credit On Stocker Channing's IMDB What is it? It's bad It is Knuckles In the Sonic the Hedgehog universe And it is a mini-series

There is a knuckles Paramount Plus mini series Voice by Idris Elba Yeah And we can't find a better use of time For Stocker Channing She's playing Wendy Whipple I mean

any series. Once in future, this had Oscar Buzz guest, Patrick Vale, is currently in London performing with Stalker Channing in, uh, in Electra. Whatever, whatever they're calling the Electra play with, um, uh, Brie Larson. So I am prepared to- Patrick Vale, please interview, Stalker-Shanning about our role. I am prepared to pepper Patrick with Stocker-Channing questions the next time I talk to it. Um, all right, Chris, for you, I went down the Joe Pesci. road and decided to find his fellow wet bandit, Daniel Stern.

And I'm going to give you Daniel Stern who has, well, and this is going to give it away some. He has one TV and one voice only credit, and they're the same thing. Why am I blanking on what the TV credit is, but it's also a voice credit? Is it Beavis and Butthead? No. Why did I think he's in Beavis and Butthead to America? You could not be more spiritually far from the thing. Oh.

You're guessing. You are maybe too young to get them. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. For our generation, it's like a pretty big deal. I'm like five years. years younger than both. But it's crucial, but it's like, I think it's one of those things. Oh, okay. So this is like how I am way too old for Pokemon and I have no Pokemon in me because I'm like just crucially too old. Yes. Yes. Um, okay. Um, well, home alone. Home alone. Yep. Home alone too. No, not home alone too. Okay, great. So what are my years? Your years are 1979, 1991, and then the TV show, uh, went from 19,

88 to 1993. Oh, is that Cheers? It's not Cheers. He's not in Cheers. Ended in 93. And the movies are both in the 70s. No, 91. 79.99. And then

1988 to 93 is the TV show. Was he on, like, Cosby? No. What kind of a TV show would have a narrator. Oh, he's the narrator. Is this the Wonder Years? This is the Wonder Years, yes.

I didn't know he narrated the Wonder Years. That's the generational thing. I think that's something that, like, we would know, but you would. I mean, like, I watched the Wonder Years as a kid. Because it was weird to be like, the guy from home alone is the guy who's old Kevin Arnold's? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

So is 91 the Wonder, a Wonder Years movie of some time? No, they did not do. I don't think a Wonder Years movie. No, 91. is an Oscar winner, but in a very, it doesn't seem like an Oscar-y movie, but like it is a very memorable Oscar winner. In 91. Yes.

Reversello for. No, that's 90. That's 1990. Yeah. 91's Silence of Lambs. He's not in that. Right. So what would be the awesome?

What won original screenplay? Did it win original screenplay? Acting. Oh, okay. So who won the... Oh, is it the Fisher King? Nope. Is it my cousin Vinnie?

That was 92. But it kind of similar. But there is a my cousin Vinny connection to it. Yeah, a fun, like, conspiracy. see, theory about Marissa Tomey's win. That's high. Oh, Jack, but...

Oh, it's city slickers. The city slickers. There you go. I watched those movies as kids and internalized nothing. I still have never... I think I've seen part of the first one, but never seen it all the way.

I liked... I watched the first one a bunch when I was a kid. I enjoyed that one. All right. So your remaining one is 1979. It's a best picture nominee. Dear Hunter. No. That's 78.

Oh, right. When we did our 70s series, this was a movie that I... It also won an Oscar for original screenplay. That makes a ton of sense. Oh, it's Midnight Express. No. No. I think that's also 78. No, this was a movie when we did our 70s series last year that I watched for the first time, and I really, really loved it.

I thought it was super charming. Original screenplay 79. was also nominated for supporting actress, Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Score. Shoot. The temptation in the 70s is always to be like Paths of Glory, or bound for glory, because no one knows when that movie came out. Not that.

So 79 is All That Jazz. Kramer versus Kramer Apocalypse now What are the other two? I bet I like this movie is the thing that's driving me crazy. I think you like it. I think I definitely liked it more than you.

It's a sports movie. Oh, breaking away. I hate breaking away. I hate breaking away. I don't understand you. It's so good. Such a good movie. All right.

I was like, ugh. Boy. Well, then I'm glad you struggled on it. All right. So now you will quiz Tyler. All right, Tyler, for you, I have chosen a fun one. I was in the vein of Tony winning performers in the aughts. And I chose for you someone who didn't get to reprise their Tony winning role.

Harvey Firestein. There is one voice performance. Oh, damn. Okay. Harvey Firestein is, uh, um, Mrs. Delfire? Mrs. Delfire's correct. Yeah, okay. I can't imagine Torch Song trilogy is...

Incorrect. No Torch Song Trilogy. Oh, God. Um... This is hard. um god i don't know if i can i will say they're all in the same decade to give you a small nudge and maybe narrow the field of vision for you okay so one's a so one is a a voice role yes i'm just going to i guess a disney yeah situation yep from the 90s from the 90s

It's not Aladdin. Nope. It's not, it can't be the Lion King. It's not. No, okay. It would never allow Harvey Firestein and Nathan Lane in the same space. That is a good point. There was an ordinance against that.

I was like, well, obviously it's not like, you know, it's not the birdcage for many reasons. Damn it. God, I'm trying to think of what can't. Hunchback of Notre Dame? Hunchback is incorrect. I'll give you years. 1994, 1996, and then the voice performance is 1998.

Oh, duh. 96 is Independence Day? Yes. Correct. Okay, duh. So, now he gets killed by a fireball, but before that, he says, oh, crap. So 94 is a. is a live action?

Yes. I would also say 94. I don't remember him in this movie, but I probably haven't seen it in 20 years. Same. This, I believe, is a best picture nominee. It's not. It's a best director nominee, but not best picture.

Oh, right. It's a best director nominee, not best picture. And it has an acting Oscar. Bullets over Broadway? Yes. Bullets over Broadway. became a flop musical later

a couple of years ago like right before COVID right after COVID I enjoyed I enjoyed the musical Helena York was in it yes

oh my God as the Jennifer Tilly yeah I was watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills recently and she was talking about the year

that she went to the Oscars and I'm like if she's willing to talk about that that's the only thing I would ever ask her about if I was at a lunch and swaray with her

that's a yeah that's what I was saying. I think it's fascinating. Real Housewives, you have Jennifer Tilly Oscar nominee and then Erica Jane first housewife's to have a song and a Best Picture winner in a Nora. Oh shit, I didn't realize that.

I didn't realize that. Oh, wow. That's incredible. Sean Baker, a secret housewife fan. Frank Baker knows what he's doing. Okay, so you still have the 98 Disney musical that he has a voice performance. No. Garzan was 99.

So. 98. I would have been 15. So I was not, and it wasn't like a toy story. It wasn't like the car. No. No.

This movie is kind of like the last of its kind in the like. No. Nope. That was 97. So literally you've painted the corner around it. In, it got its live action remake. Right as COVID hit.

Yeah. Like right when things shut down. It's live action, its live action remakes premiere was the week every year shut down. Yes. I feel insane. I have no idea. It got a costume nomination at the Oscar.

I forgot about that. The original was nominated for, score? Score, I believe, not song, though it does have a very famous song. It does have, yeah. Wait, Moulon? Yes. Moulon! Moulon is the winner. Wait, who was he in Moulon?

It's a good question. Character name Yao. That seems problematic. Does seem problematic. I have not seen... You know, listen, I would like to also see what Margarly's is doing in that movie, because she is also in that voice. She's probably like an ancestor.

She's credited as the matchmaker. I've got to see Mulan again, man. Donnie Osmond. It's all happening. Donnie Osmond. Mingna, though, right? Mingna was one. The only good thing about the live action remake is Mingnaw shows up towards the end and the cameo.

And I was just like, yay. I forgot all about Mulan. Wow. Five years ago. Yep. To this day. It's a big old memory hole, 2020. Yep, 100%.

All right. Tyler, cannot thank you enough for coming to chat with us. Sorry slash not sorry for finally getting Jersey Boys off your list. I had to pull this band-aid off at some point, so it had to be done. Now it's a gaping wound. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Just keep... If the movie's not interesting, it's at least interesting to imagine why Clint Eastwood. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. All right. listeners, that is our episode.

If you would like more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had Oscar Buzz. Tumblr.com. A Tumblr I started after a chat conversation with Tyler Coates right here one day.

We were talking about fucking Reservation Road. And I'm like, remember how this movie had Oscar Buzz? And I was like, I'm bored today. I'm going to start a fucking Tumblr. Those were the days

where you could just make a Tumblr where it's just the title, the Tumblr. Just a tumbler is one thing. It's a picture of a poster. And it's exactly what it was. It's exactly what it was. And here we are today.

Yeah. Here we are today. You can also follow our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. And our Patreon at patreon. com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Tyler, where should we direct our listeners to read more of you, hear more from you, etc? Sure. I'm on Instagram and Blue Sky mostly these days under my name, Tyler Coates.

I'm also the co-hosts of the D.C. Studios showcase. I keep seeing you. You keep showing up on my YouTube and whatnot. Yeah. So you can watch it on YouTube. You can watch it on Max every other Friday. I think there's a new one. I'm not sure when this episode runs. So I'm not going to say when the episode will air.

But yeah, that's been fun. So you can hear me there. It's a rad gig. That's a very, very cool gig. Yeah, thank you. Sure. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Oh, you can find me on Letterbox.

Blue Sky at Christy File. That's F-E-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-D. I am on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi-M-M-M-E-M-M-A-M-M-A, called Demi, at Patreon. That's D-E-M-E-M-P-E-M-A-P-E-P-E-E-P-E-E-P-E-E-V-E-A-5-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple podcast visibility. So if you can't take your eyes off of our star rating and wish it was a little bit better, then go leave us

a nice review. That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. You'll be working your way back to us being next week for more buzz. You're better at that than I am. I want to just delete them from my brain. Bye.

Thank you.