This Had Oscar Buzz - 344 – Things We Lost in the Fire

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

At the beginning of the aughts, both Halle Berry and Benicia Del Toro were riding high on Oscar wins. In 2007, they both paired up for Things We Lost in the Fire, a melodrama from Danish director Susanne Bier. From a script by Collateral Beauty scribe Allan Loeb, the film cast Berry as a grieving wife … Continue reading "344 – Things We Lost in the Fire"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and French. Dick Pooh. My friend died. He wasn't a user, and he was the only person who never, ever gave up on me. How come Brian never mentioned you? Because I'm a recovering heroin addict, baby.

Your dad was my best friend. I hated you. Sure. You know, it should have been you, Jerry. Why wasn't it you? Why am I here? Here's a deal. You can move it.

Get yourself situated, and you can pay me rent. I don't need your charity, Audrey. I'm the one that needs the help here. You don't get your head under water? I don't know. One, two, three. You can't just come here and pretend to be my dad. I never pretend it to be your daddy.

This isn't working, Jerry. Those are my kids. And I don't need you telling me how to raise it. I know that. Jerry's gone. That means Jerry's going to die like my dad. Can you tell me where I can find Jerry? Jerry.

Jerry! Academy Award winner Halle Berry, Academy Award winner Benicio del Toro. Good day, so big. Things we lost in the fire. Hello, and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast coping with nuclear disaster by having an affair with Lars Idinger. Every week on this had Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with the good that I merely accept Joe Reed.

Accept the good, Joe Reed. Accept the good. I mean, you know what? Honestly, it's probably advice I could take. Your voice kind of leapt up a little there, and it made me feel like you were going to say the wickedly talented Academy Award aspirations. Nope. Nope. This is me not.

I have dis... memorized. I have unmemorized our typical intro. This is what happens when we go on vacation. This is what happens when we don't record from a week. A month? A month? Almost a month? Yeah? The longest we'd maybe gone without recording. Don't worry. No. No, we've had two of those this year. We've had two of those this year of where it's like, oh, we haven't recorded in a month. What are we doing here? Don't worry. I got myself behind the eight ball on to me recording.

So I had to like scramble to record multiple to me. episodes this week it's fine it's fine here we are we made it we're accepting the good we're accepting the good we are jogging to the corner with John Carol Lynch

honestly John Carol Lynch get into my life I would get into a running club with John Carroll Lynch I would have so many questions he would kick me out of the running he'd be like you're a little intense man Stop asking me about March.

I just, I'm hung up on the accept-the-good phrase because, like, that's the movie's, like, cutesy. It's very collateral beauty. It's very collateral beauty, coded. Almost as if this is a movie written by Alan Loeb. I didn't even make that connection. Fucking hell. Okay, this makes all the sense in the world now. It absolutely, everything is connected.

Cloud Atlas, Hallie Berry. You know, this is the same writer as collateral. beauty, but before he, you know, sells a couple half-dozen scripts, and then he's high on his own supply. No, you clicked everything into place for me. That all absolutely fits. Yep. I just, we'll have a lot to talk about in this movie.

I think there are a lot of pros, a lot of cons to this movie. I don't know if I'd say a lot of pros, but go on. I think there's pros. There's some. I will say the movie ends better than it starts. There was a point about halfway through where I paused the movie. and I saw that there was another hour in five minutes and I was like

the fuck there is like oh my God see I was going to say one of the pros is for a two hour very dour movie it did kind of fly by for me interesting had you never seen it though I'd never well no I'd never see no I'd seen this before because we'll

get we'll get into plot the descriptions and whatnot sure sure sure I mean you haven't seen this movie but you've seen this movie well that's the thing that's the thing I just think if I was, well, I mean, I am going through the grieving process. If I was, if someone said to me while going through the grieving process or going through an addiction process or going through awful, something awful, and they said, you know, what you need is to accept the good. You'd punch them in the face?

I would punch them in the face. If I was an addict, staying in Holly Berry's pool house. Yeah. Is it, yes, it is a pool house, right? It's more than that than a garage. It's a garage room. Yeah. Well, listen. Because they don't have the pool. John Carroll Lynch's ex-wife by the end of the movie has the pool. No, because he says at the end that he's getting back together with her, remember? Oh, right. Because he's, like, lonely or whatever. John Carroll Lynch, love yourself. He accepted the good. That's all I got to say, though, John Carroll Lynch, love yourself. You're jogging, you're getting into good shape.

Like, you know, good things will happen for you. You don't need to go back to that hurricane of awfulness, that woman. She was pretty awful. She was pretty awful. She was right to hit on her. She was pretty awful. Yeah. Yeah.

What is she going to do with that pool? Exactly. You get in the pool. You get in the pool, lady. He got a pool. What the fuck? Do you care if he goes in it or not? You go in it.

Things we lost in the divorce. The pool. I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. That would make me have a breakdown. That would make me follow. Losing a pool and a divorce.

Yes, things will be lost in the divorce, losing the pool? Yeah, yes. Yeah, you would put yourself, you would make yourself destitute to keep a pool. But see, this is where we come into, if you don't get married and have a pool, you don't have to, if you stay unmarried and poolless, you don't have to get unmarried and poolless. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Toothless not poolless. I saw that clip again the other day. It's the funniest goddamn thing.

We had the whole conversation with Sutton. At the Toothless and Homeless Foundation? Not toothless and homeless. Don't laugh. This is a really important charity, Kathy. What? Homeless, not toothless. Homeless not toothless.

Only half of them are getting it wrong on purpose to annoy Doreet. Some of them are just like genuinely getting it wrong. And being like, no, come on, guys. Let's be serious. It's toothless, but not homeless. because ultimately the point of the reason why that's so stupid is there's no clear cut like which one is better it's not this like very easy like listen we want them to be homeless but not toothless right it's just like homeless sure toothless too far like are any of those real housewise poolless oh i i would

Well, Erica just moved into, like, Erica kind of severely downsized, so maybe she doesn't have a pool anymore. They should all have pools. They live in Los Angeles. If you live in Los Angeles and have the means, you should have a pool. That's what Magnolia is about. It is what Magnolia is about. It's a soft place for your frogs to land, if nothing else. Your frog catcher in your backyard.

No idea how we got. Things we lost in the fire. If things we lost in the fire ended, it. a reign of bullfrogs, you'd get it. It would make a lot, the whole of it would make a lot of sense. You'd get it. Yep, yep, yep, totally. But it's not set in Los Angeles.

It's set in Seattle, right? Well, yes, but as eagle-eyed me noticed, when they had the scene with Duchovny and Benicio del Toro in the, in the little, whatever, mini-mart, that bitch is filmed in Canada. Like, there were presidents-choice cookies on the, those presidents-choice cookies on the, on the, on the shelves, and craft dinner behind a Benicio. Extremely shot in Vancouver. Very, very shot in Vancouver. But listen, Vancouver doubling for Seattle is like kind of whatever.

It's when Vancouver doubles for like New York that I'm just like, guys. Cut it out. This is fucking stupid. No, Vancouver can double for Seattle. They're like international kissing cousins. That's fine. I've never been to either. I think I'd rather go to Vancouver than go to Seattle.

I've never been to either. But... Go to one. Might as well go to the other. I do have friends who live in Seattle, and I would love to visit the real world house in Seattle, so maybe I'll do that. Is it like a national landmark? No, but it should be. That's my new, that's my, that's my platform for what I run for mayor of Seattle to make the real world house on the pier a national landmark, just like Pike's Place with the fucking fish throw.

All right. Well, anyway, this is your show. It's our show. Yes, but you're the, you're the outline. I'm the captain of this ship. You're the captain of your soul. You are the, what's the rest of that? Invictus.

And from Denmark, after the wedding, from America, thinks we lost in the fire. Susanna Beer. It's so annoying to have to go through Susanna Beers' awards and nominations tab and see no Oscar nomination for After the Wedding, even though you know why, of course, because, like, of course, the country is the one with the nomination. No Oscar win. She won an Oscar in 2010. And then just like, it's just not, come on, guys.

Like, just, you know, put an asterisk against it or something, but, like, Jesus. This is, we're right in the Susanna Beer sweet spot. Yes. We are right in. Between Oscar nomination and Oscar win for her international features. Well, and, like, even, like, brothers, the original brothers, like, wins the audience award at Sundance in its year. You know what I mean? It's just like, she really is sort of like, she's on a hot streak.

And things we lost in the fire is kind of the dud in the midst of it because, like, it doesn't really go anywhere. It is, I'm kind of surprised. We've lasted this long before we've gotten the things we lost in the fire because it is one of the quintessential this had Oscar buzz movies. It's a movie that is only remembered because it was at one point in, like, predict. like, predicted as a movie that was going to, that was going to succeed for Oscar, even though it's funny that it's not a, uh, indie, um, shingle like a, like a, you know, yeah, it's a dream works movie. It's a straight up dream works movie.

Like, it's not a focus. It's not a searchlight. It's not a fine line or anything like that. It's just, this is DreamWorks after DreamWorks was taken over by Paramount. Yes. but still, like, this is considered a DreamWorks movie, not a DreamWorks Paramount movie. So you can imagine there's not a whole lot,

and I didn't have time to dig through the Wayback Machine on this movie, but there's not a whole lot of like pre-production stuff immediately available about this movie, but my assumption when I saw that DreamWorks logo was like, oh, this was in development for a while at DreamWorks, and that's how it got these actors, this director, at that time because it was always envisioned

as some type of Oscar property. Have you given the poster a close read, by the way, we haven't done a poster close read in a while. The font is... The font is fucking wild. It's like do the right thing. It's like do the right thing, sort of. But like, it's that...

Or like, burn after reading. Yes. It's a little wacky. Like, the letters are very, like, elongated. Like, they're very, like, tall, very tall, stretched out letters. Yes. Um, Hallie Barry Benicio del Toro are, um, sort of cliparded next to each other, separated by, um, a vertical line. Um, the bottom of... Her expression is more fraught than his. If he, if he wasn't having this kind of loving, pensive face, you could maybe think it was a thriller based off of her posture and expression.

Yeah, she's sort of leaning up against something and like, looking longingly. And he's very intense. But the bottom of both of their photos is chopped and jagged little sawtooth sort of, you know, the shapes. The tagline is way too large of a font compared to the title and too close. It makes you think that it is a subtitle. Yes. The whole, the full government name of this movie is Things We Lost in the Fire, colon, hope comes with letting go. Hope comes with letting go. Also, terrible tagline.

horrible tagline. Why would you not just make it accept the good? I already went on about how I think that it's an evil message in this movie. Also, telling a drug addict to accept the good in their life is maybe evil to me. But that's a poster tagline. That's very easy. Considering I imagine so much of the promotional campaign for this movie hinged on the fact that you had two Oscar winners, the Academy Award winner above each of their names is very small.

It's very small. It's about a third of the size of the tagline. It's a genuinely puzzling poster. Like, I would like to just, I just want to talk. I just want to, like, have a nice little chat. But the font really is the craziest thing. Like, you have to look at it. If this movie was today, you would not be able to escape the trailers, the posters, the ads, etc.,

telling you that these are two Oscar winners because it was the trailer semi-recently or maybe like two years ago where it was like, Towers. all of the cast and someone was a Golden Globe winner. Those are my favorite things. For, like, television. Those are my favorite things, where it's one sad little person who's like, oh, you've never been Oscar nominated. Yeah, Halle Berry, Benicio del Toro, both within a handful of years from their Oscars.

and in a movie that very much echoes her Oscar-winning movie and one of his Oscar-nominated movies. I feel like if you are not thinking very heavily of both Monsters Ball and 21 grams in this movie, then I don't. Yeah, it's like 40% 21 grams and maybe like 10% Monsters' Ball. But it's enough that it's like, oh, this is why they cast the two of them. It's like 12 grams.

and then Monsters Ball. 12 grams and an 8 ball. Can I tell you the absolute goopery and gaggery I had when David Dukovny is the first person you see in this movie? Did not know that he was in this, but I didn't. I knew and forgot that he was in this. Like when this movie came out, I did not see it in theaters. I think I, like, rented this. on DVD because I had seen this movie

So I knew, but then I had forgotten This is also the time where it's like David Dukovny was passable as a prestige actor Yeah, what's the era of Dukovny? Let's make him our first sort of pre-plot description mini-dive. I just want to see like where this movie sits Because I bet you it's very close to the Bart Freundlich movie that he did.

Trust the man. Trust the man. trust the man was 2005 and this is 2007 he also made in 2006 the tv set uh in 2004 he was he directed the film house of d which i know as a title and nothing else like i genuinely but like anton yelchin is in that movie erika baddo frank langella robin williams um for the legendary house of d Robin Williams' daughter, also in that movie, from the legendary House of D. What's the tagline to that movie? Jesus.

Or what's the IMDB, like, whatever summary? By working through problems stemming from his past, Tom Warshaw, an American artist living in Paris, begins to discover who he really is and returns to his home to reconcile with his family and friends. I'm thinking this is David Dukovny biting off more than he can chew. what I mean. You know, maybe, just possibly. David Duchovney directed more things than you think, including a bunch of episodes of like Californication and the X-Files, of course.

But then something called, oh, God, this looks bleak, something called Reverse the Curse in 23 um who of course it's about the redsox fans in oh that's that's much better i was i was a little i was like my you know i was i was i was bracing for something well brace were you an x files person intermittently yeah i'm the rare person who like paid attention not maybe the rare person whatever i mostly paid attention when they were doing the like this episode changes everything about the X-Files because it was like, you know, the big sort of like mythology. It's so episodic, yeah. I mean, quite literally because it's television show, but...

The received wisdom about the X-Files from like the real heads ended up being that like the myth, the mythology episodes were worse and the standalone sort of monster of the week episodes were better, partly because that mythology ended up petering out so unsatisfyingly. They never really paid that off in a way of it satisfied. But to me, of course, I was very much just like, oh, my God, what's good, you know, what does it all mean? Who's behind it all? Is it the aliens? Whatever, whatever, whatever.

I have since, I like dipping into old X-Files episodes, especially old X-Files episodes I haven't seen. But I probably saw a good, probably half of X-Files episodes. I like it. I like it's a good time. But it was never like. No. It was on Friday nights. It was on Friday nights.

Sure. It was tough. to um well move to sunday eventually but for a while there was on friday nights it was tough do we think these reports of ryan cougler doing an x-files thing oh that's cute i like that is actually real and going to happen i don't want him doing i p i don't want him doing i don't even want him doing a sinner sequel after sinners i want him doing whatever he wants to do that is not i p sinner sequel is a silly idea he should not do that um let someone else do that It's, you know, let him keep being a producer of original, or a maker of original things, rather than following the IT.

The thing with, whenever I sort of complain about that kind of stuff, and I think we're proud, we are right to complain and we are right to sort of want more for our artours. Especially after something like sinners, which, you know, it has its, it has its inspirations, but like feels so fresh and exciting. I do have to remember sometimes, though, that, like, these are artists, but they're also just, like, people who loved things in their childhood and like working with the people they like working with. So, like, I could, like, understand, and maybe that's the case, and maybe that's not the case in some of these things, where it's just like, oh, yeah, like, let's do another movie like that, because I liked working with all those people. Let's work with all the government. Let's do an X-Files movie. Now that I have this, like, you know, clout, like, I love the X-Files. I'd always wanted to do an X-Files movie, like, that kind of a thing.

So while I think we all kind of want our artists to be like, you know, merciless attours who are like, no, does it serve the art? Then fuck it. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. But I don't know. On one hand, I'm like, let Ryan Cougler spend his blank check however he wants. But on the other hand, I'm just like, oh, Ryan, spend the blank check the way I want. You know what if you did this?

What if you did another fully original movie? Wouldn't that be great? Anywho, how did we get into this? Decovney. House of D. Never saw it. That's all. Is House of D streaming anywhere, or is that?

this one of those lost aughts movies. I was so surprised when this was immediately available on Paramount Plus because when we mentioned doing this movie, I was like, oh, well, that, I got to get a library DVD for that if I want to watch that movie. Oh, I should say following things we lost in the fire, he's in the second X-Files movie, X-Files I Want to Believe, which is the one I haven't seen, which is the one that is- That's the one that bombed, right? Yes.

But I feel like it's the one that, like, people are like, oh, it's the better one because it's not about the alien conspiracy. He then was in 2009's of the Joneses, which I'm going to be talking about on the Demi podcast soon because she's his co-star in that. And then, like, I don't know, his career's so weird. How many seasons would you guess Californication went? A lot. That and Shameless have done, like, nine seasons or something crazy.

Californication's only seven, but I would bet you you're right about Shameless. Shameless, a show that I liked and watched and, like, still didn't make it to the end of. 11 seasons of Shameless! Didn't, like, half of that cast leave that show. Oh, yeah. Well, or, like, aged out of it or whatever. Okay, so between seven seasons of Californication and 11 of Shameless, you were correct. It averages out to nine apiece, so you were spiritually correct.

They got to keep something on Showtime. Crazy, crazy. Anywho, I was very surprised when he shows up and is the first person you see in this movie. But as we'll find out, there were a lot of surprises for me in this. He, I think, is one of the problems of this movie. He is, it's not his performance, that's the problem. But I don't think he does anything to dispel this. But his character is this nice guy that only exists in movies that is basically given the sainthood through the process of this movie.

He is constantly doing the right thing. a just like complete well of patience and kindness and goodness and literally dies while trying to save a woman from domestic violence. It's he's not a character. He's not a person. He's a figment to the point that you almost wish you never even saw this character. You wish that he was only referenced after his death. You know, because also the first maybe 45 minutes of this movie makes you think the way that it's structured because there's not necessarily explicit indicators that you're seeing a memory or you're seeing the past and it's jumping back in time so much that you think the whole thing is going to be nonlinear and at a certain point it's not. Because also it reminds you of 21 grams and 21 grams was intensely not linear too. So like, yes, absolutely.

Yeah. Why is, that's one of the reasons I hate that movie. Why is 21 grand non-linear? Yeah. What does it serve to make that movie non-linear other than to pull a stunt? Yeah. Nothing. Nothing.

I hate that movie. But yeah, it kind of loses that in this movie and you don't really know where you are in, you know, Benicio's diction struggle. Holly Barry's grief struggle And I kind of liked that aspect Of that part of the movie Because it's like a displacement That feels appropriate for the type of grief Or human struggle

That this movie is going for It felt at least like it was doing a thing And like there's tons of aughts movies like this That have no thing to really do Yeah They're just I want to talk a little bit more about that, but I want to sort of get past the plot description before we do, because I don't want to hold anything back. Well, then, why don't we get into it so that, now that we've put DeKovny aside, why don't you first, though, talk about our Patreon?

Yeah, so our Patreon is called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. We've been doing it for a couple of years now. Yeah, a couple of years now, right? Because it's been two years. We launched it right after the 100 years, 100 snubs miniseries. Wow, we're going to hit 50 episodes. I'm saying. I'm saying.

$5 a month, everybody, gets you already two years worth of banked episodes, as well as two new episodes every month. The first episode dropping on the first Friday of the month will be what we call an exceptions episode. That is a movie, we talk about a movie that has all of the traffic of a this-head Oscar-Buzz movie except for, oops, it got a nomination or two or maybe three.

Later this month, we're going to be covering Neil Jordan's interview with the vampire. Very, very excited to talk about that movie that got a handful of Oscar nominations, but in general, nothing major and nothing for its breakthrough-supporting actress Kirsten Dunst, so we'll have a ton

to talk about with that. Other recent movies that we've done as exceptions, Mary Queen of Scots, a humor murder your sister. You murder your sister. And you murder your queen. Mahaland Drive, David Lynch's Mahaland Drive, Phantom of the Opera, which we did with our guest and friend Natalie Walker, Far from Heaven, Hitchcock, House of Gucci, Knives Out with our friend Jorge and Alina. It's been a good, wonderful time with the exceptions. Second episode of the month, which drops on the third

Friday of every month, will be an excursion where we sort of step outside of the normal, let's talk about one movie thing. And instead, we will talk about weird little pieces of Oscar and movie ephemera that have made us the Oscar freaks that we are today. We are including old award shows and EW Fall Movie Preview Flashbacks and different, the movie line where Jennifer Lopez talked a lot of shit about people. And we've done game nights. We've done, our superlative awards. This month, we will be going back, back, back to one of the most notorious Oscar moments of all time. We have found a video of the entire 1989. Wait, what year, what, 88? It's the Allen Car, Oscars with Snow White and Roblo.

We're going to do the whole Snow White of it all. Do not tell the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences that this is on YouTube. at the moment. Take it away. The fact that Alan Carr produced those Oscars always confuses me, especially when I am, as I am now. As we have a current gay guy, Alan Carr? I was going to say, Drag Race, UK.

I'm binging season two of Drag Race UK. And so, of course, that also is Alan Carr, who... Also, both of those Alan cars don't look that much different. That's even crazier. Guys, God, figure it out. Okay. Anyway, just a ton of fun and frivolity that we will bring to you every month. Again, for the low, low price of $5 a month, I genuinely think, self-interest aside, I think it's a great deal.

And we're having a good time, and we implore you to come join us because truly, why should you deny yourself? So that can be found at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Bose. All righty, things we lost in the fire, directed by Susana Beer, written by Alan Loeb, starring Academy Award winner, Hallie Berry. Academy Award winner, Benicio del Toro. And that's where it stops. Saturn Award nominee, Allison Loman. This had Oscar Buzz Lifetime Tribute Award winner, John Carroll. Say that.

Say that. Alexis Llewellyn. Micah Berry. They are both children. They are children. Robin Weiger, dropping the hard-ar-slur in this movie. And David DeCupney.

And the movie premiered opening wide October 19th, 07. Not a single fucking film festival for this movie, which is wild because, I mean, this would fit in... It opened wide. Like, that's the other thing.

It's just like, just... No chaser. Just, you know... Yeah. Like, I guess, you know, the movie is not... I don't know. They maybe knew that the movie wasn't as strong as the pedigree was for it,

so you don't take it to a festival. But then again, you look at some of the things that did go to festivals. And it's like, it is... It's just very surprising to me that this didn't play Toronto or Telly. Paramount had all their Vantage movies that year. They weren't paying attention to what DreamWorks was doing.

That's true. That's another thing that kind of makes this movie the like ugly stepchild of the whole Paramount sphere. But it also was kind of it. This is the top five that this movie opened into. Yeah. 30 Days of Night. Number one, opening weekend box office. Can I tell you, I know exactly where I was living this full.

and I know exactly where I saw these movies, and it's like, uh, time machine. Time machine, 30 days of night at the IFC Center. Let's go. You saw 30 days of night at the IFC Center? Why were they playing, why was the IFC Center playing a studio horror movie? Maybe I'm thinking, no, you know what? It wasn't that one. It was the other winter horror movie. It was fucking the, oh, what was called? Connie Britton was in it. Zach Gilford was in it. Fuck. I'm not going to think of it. But you're right. It was another one. I saw 30 days of night, but it was not at the IFC Center. I did see Michael Clayton at the Cobble Hill cinemas on Court Street, which, God bless those highly uncomfortable seats at that wonderful movie theater that never changed their pre-roll ever and was still asking you to please silence your pagers and not smoke in the theater before a feature.

What New York City movie theater are you imagining that has comfortable seats? There are some, I mean, it's a lot of like, you know, the newly refurbished multiplexes at that point. But, yeah, not the Cable Hill Cinemas. When I was in New York and I went to the Angelica, I had to move back several rows. I was the only person in the theater. I moved back several rows because my neck hurt 15 minutes into the movie. You know what small little, like, theaters in New York City? Again, it's how recently you've been refurbished.

But, like, the quad cinema is pretty comfortable. Yeah. I don't know. Doesn't the quad have like five seats? Yeah, but they're all very comfortable. There you go. It's like a personal living room. Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Also opening this weekend with awards pedigree and not doing well. Gone baby gone, uh, earning 2.3 million. I also saw it the Cobbill Cinemas. Yeah. In 12th place and then in 14th place with 1.6 million and a $700 per screen average. rendition yes but not as bad as things we lost in the fire opened 15th place i mean it had double the screen average though it's true of rendition god how why did they open rendition Jesus uh like 2,300 theaters or something it had meryl Streep on a poster

Very Streep, Reese Witherspoon. Intensely talking into a cell phone. Tommy is okay. Tell me he's okay. I really think you should find other Fiddler on the roof music to fit into Tell Me He's Okay. I don't know what I would. I don't know the other songs from Fiddler on the roof well enough. It's not going to fit into Sunrise, sunset.

No. Um, sunrise, sunset, tell me he's okay. Honestly, it's work. Joseph, are you ready to give a 60 second plot description of things we lost on the fire? Please don't say the title because that's going to take up at least three seconds of your time. Okay, all right, there we go. All right, then your 60 second plot description for Things We Lost in the Fire starts now. Dear Chat, GPT, can you write me a summary of the 2007 movie Things We Lost in the Fire?

Sure thing. In Things We Lost in the Fire, Hallie Barry plays a grieving woman whose husband and children, I'm going to assume house all burned down in a fire. And as a result, she's a broken woman. Benicio del Toro plays a guy she meets probably in a support group. And he's also lost his whole family. And it's probably pretty secretive about it. And these two shattered souls learn to feel and mourn in love again.

And only super late in the movie to be discovered that Benicio knew Halliberry's husband and is also a heroin addict and how he feels betrayed. And then she tells Benicio she hates him. And she scream cries into his shoulder. 30 seconds. He probably ends ambiguously on a note of like, Wary Hope. Only surprise Chet, you idiot, because even though you would completely assume that a movie with the title, Things We Lost in the Fire is about that. What it's actually about is that Hallie Berry is married to David Dukovny, who dies

of a gunshot wound, and there is no fire at all in this entire movie. She knows Benicio del Toro is her husband's friend the whole time, and that he's a heroin addict, and that part is the same because Benicio stays giving on heroin vibes. Like remember him in the MCU, his entire character brief was, accent speaks like he's on heroin. Anyway, Hallie does tell him, I hate you, but it's in like the first reel and at the memorial service. So sure, yes, they become close, and he moves into their her garage.

and her kids bond with him. But Hallie is always like, you're not my kid's dad. And eventually she tells him to move out. So, of course, he relapses into heroin. And then Hallie and her brother and Alison Loman, who was connected to this whole deal through drug recovery. Honestly, just forget about it.

Benicio goes back into rehab, and he and Hallie maybe love each other. But he still dreams about those sweet, sweet balloons of heroin, the end. 33 seconds over. I think that's exactly on time, though, because 30 seconds of that was a joke. Chat, GPT, let me a joke. You're joking, but this script.

There's no fire in this movie. Nobody dies on a fire in this movie. What the fuck is going on? It is kind of like you told Chat GPT to write you a screenplay that would earn people Oscar about addiction and death. 18 years of my life, assuming that things we lost in the fire, was about Hallie Berry's family who died in a fire because why wouldn't I assume that? Like, what the fuck? No, the fire was their garage. Their garage got on fire, and that was where they were.

storing all that stuff. And it was fine. And then they fixed it into a room where Benicio del Toro can stay among On like a mattress on the floor. And then Holly Berry can sneak in and look at him naked in the shower like a creep. Hallibary, I will say, is very mean. It's not creepy if you're Holly Barry. She's very. You can sneak around and look at Oscar winning men in the shower when they're vulnerable.

And it's not creepy. She's so mean to him in this movie, guys. She says no less than 18 evil things. Super evil things. And including like wouldn't you like to do heroin with me? Wouldn't it be, wouldn't it feel good? Like, hell. Yeah, she tries to make him relapse.

She's like, it should have been you. Well, again, very, very, uh, you're not my real dad energy. Um, here's what I wrote down though. So obviously the Monsters Ball of it all and the 21 grams, these are things that like, we think of it because she's also really harsh to her kids at times she's super harsh to her kids also her brother is this sort of like big lovable fat black guy right where it's just like there's a lot of like monsters ball coating speaking of sinners he's the bouncer from sinners oh i also i mostly know him he's in a couple of west wing episodes and he's very funny i like that guy when i put this

on and he showed up i was like oh my god that guy but it reminded me a little bit of the sort of microgenre that one sort of microgenre that Hollywood can't get enough of, which is woman endures a terrible loss and through her grief, acts like a giant bitch throughout the entire movie.

And it's like... Yeah, this movie's got women issues. It's Monsters Ball is that. 21 grams is that. I think about something like rabbit hole, which I think is a better movie than this one for a few reasons, and I'll probably come back to it. Even stuff like hereditary and Midsomar are both like that.

Pieces of a woman is like that. I think they all kind of stem from the ordinary people tree a little bit where it's like, you know, Mary Tyler Moore is just like completely, but like, and then they all like, it all apexes with three billboards outside Eming, Missouri, which is the ultimate like, woman indoors grief becomes giant bitch movie. They do lose actual things in a fire in that movie. One thing that I think is kind of interesting about a movie that we both loved from last year, Hard Truths, is Hard Truths is a better movie because it, It doesn't pretend like you need to have a giant tragedy in your life for life to sort of, you know, beat you down to the point where you need to, you know, lash out at everybody constantly. Right? Right.

Well, I mean, the other thing about hard truths is hard truths is more than the story it's telling, you know, Pansy is not just Pansy. pansy is representative of a national global mood like this is pansy is who we have become that's what I mean though it's not just like one thing's we lost in the fire is just this like self-contained drama that is no more than kind of what it is on its face I mean I almost don't want to go too hard on this movie because I think there's good things in this movie most of them performance based yeah but it's also just like this is a movie that's gone. We don't have these kind of movies anymore. And I don't know. I tend to want to be more generous to those type of movies because they've been shoved out of what gets made anymore. Yes. That being said, I do think that this movie is both a little thin and reaching past its own grasp of like it's trying to have these kind of bigger ideas. about life and make these grand sweeping statements about what life means in a very Alan Loeb way.

It also has a hard time sort of trudging through the everybody is unbearably sad portions, where it's just like it has a hard time sort of injecting those with any kind of life. You know what I mean? Like they just sort of like they kind of unfurl very expectedly. nothing really happens that you're not really sure is supposed to happen. Allison Lohman shows up at the narcotics Anonymous Meeting or whatever. She is the woman from the altercation who David Dukovny rescues, right? Or am I just like, did I just make that?

That would be very Alan Loeb, though I didn't catch that. Okay. I might have just made that up in my head and assumed that that was her. But anyway, if that's not her, then Allison Lohman is just sort of like randomly in this movie. Just like, which I guess sort of says. She's the person at the rehab group. She, like, connects with Benicio del Toro at this thing. She tries to sort of.

Yeah, she's in narcotics anonymous. And she's the person who says the things you maybe shouldn't say. Right. She's a little too familiar with him. She's a little too honest. She's a little too, right. Like, she's not going to be, like, sanitized like the people in the meeting are. She's going to keep it real.

Right. That's such a cliche. The people who go to some sort of, like, organized, to like Alcoholics Anonymous or Grief Support Group or an Anger Support Group or anything like that. And it doesn't work for them because they're just too goddamn honest. And they're not going to, they're not going to sand off their edges for anybody or whatever. And I understand why these are like, you know, there's a sense that your movie character has to be the most of something. They have to feel more than anybody else in the movie feels, right?

but to me it almost always comes across as just like wow like you're just being a real aho aren't you like okay um and i think there's a lot of other cliches in this movie the way benicio del toro becomes kind of circuit dad to both of the kids yeah he like knows that the daughter runs off to the movies because only he was told by David DeKovny. Right, right. It's also packed. She likes old movies. They're showing Sunset Boulevard at the, you know, local rep theater or whatever.

And it's only one movie a week, and that's conveniently the time that the kid ran away from home. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, exactly. I mentioned rabbit hole, though, and that, you know, the one observation I had made as I'm going through, this is like there are so many movies that treat grief as something, and again, I am somebody who is like, you know, have experienced loss, but probably not on a level that a lot of other people have. So like, I am speaking from a position of, you know, specificity. But a lot of movies treat grief as a thing that sort of stops your, the entire world in its tracks for you. That the entire

world sort of stops and, and you kind of burrow into this hole and lash out at everybody. And to me, a movie like rabbit hole feels, I'm not going to say more honest, because again, I don't know everybody's experience, but at least feels to me a little bit more complex in that that is a movie about somebody who was going through this sort of like shattering amount of grief, while also having to sort of, like, go about her life, right? And maintain relationships with her husband and mother and sister and does not, it's not even like, oh, like, I have too many important things going on to deal with my grief. She's not sublimating it necessarily.

She's just sort of like, I can't feel it all right now because I have, I'm, I'm, I'm, there's a day to be had, you know what I mean? There's, you know, stuff to be done. And I think a movie like- My fuck-up younger sister is pregnant, and we have to go bowling to a bowling baby shower. But I think a movie like Things We Lost in the Fire sort of plays in that thing where it's just like,

Halliberry is just going to melt down. And it's like, okay, you know what I mean? It's just like we've seen sort of, it feels a little bit more sort of rope. and a little bit more, I don't know, scene of the long. And the big grand statements feel like, you know, those are statements in search of a screenplay, not, you know, those are the standalone thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think Rabbit Hole is a great comparison, because it's not like Rabbit Hall also doesn't have those, like, sweeping statements about, the brick in your pocket for Pete's sake. Yeah, it's like a brick in your pocket. You carry it around, and it changes. your way and it changes the way you walk and you forget it's there for a while and then every

once in a while you stick your hand in yep yeah yeah uh that's a huge sweeping statement but that also feels like it's coming organically from what exactly that script is doing who's that playwright is that david lindsay a bear is that yes it is sure is uh david auburn is proof thank you yes um and i i mean I don't want to necessarily shit on Susanna Beer, but I think if we're talking about rabbit hole, that's directed by John Cameron Mitchell, who people were like, oh, the Hedwig and the Angry Inch director.

Like, that's weird. Yeah. But I think, you know, John Cameron Mitchell has talked about, you know, coming from a family that has dealt with that type of grief, and that's what made the choice more natural. It's just we don't know about all that. But also I think John Cameron Mitchell is a director of really, really sharp taste.

And I think, you know, knowing how much is too much, where to actually draw those emotions from versus kind of throwing it together. And, like, I also don't think this is Susanna Beers fault this movie. No. You can definitely see her trying and doing some of the Susanna Beer things of like, why do we have that weird close-up? Why did you shoot it that way? But, you know. Why is there some weird little jump cut for like no reason? Like every like blue, one's in a blue moon.

It only happens maybe like four times in the movie or whatever. But there's these weird like micro jump cuts. It's just like why? And it's not a bad directed movie. It's just not a good script that, you know, she took the. opportunity to work in Hollywood. Here's my feeling with Susanna Beer, because I don't want to like shit on

Susanna Beer either, but I do kind of love, because sometimes in the United States, we have this weird sort of inferiority complex, which sometimes leads to us sort of like burrowing ever

deeper into American exceptionalism, but sometimes it leads us to sort of assuming that everything not from here is just sort of better. And fancier, more refined, more sort of,

you know, respectable. And I like that Susanna Beer is a director who will give you that sometimes, but will also sometimes give you Birdbox

and Serena and the perfect couple and even something like the undoing, which I really... This is why she is the perfect director to be doing Practical Magic

too. If we're going to go there, why not when Why not choose a director who has worked with both of those stars in things that are maybe not up to their calendar? Jennifer Lawrence, join the cast of Practical Magic 2. That's all I want is the trio of Susanna Beer actresses. Bradley Cooper as a hot warlock. Yes, absolutely, 100%.

Did you see when the photo of Cash Patel in that interview was going around where he's like on the high, the high chair? and his legs are just sort of like dangling. That's, I think it might have been Connor O'Donnell, uh, posted that link with the photo of Bradley Cooper in Dungeons and Dragons. Where he's playing the little, like the miniature little character. I laughed my ass off. That was so funny. Um, anyway, no, I, there is, there is a, I love that there's a director like

Susanna Beer out there who has like, you know, again, Academy Award winner, best foreign language film. And yet also, I do sometimes get the, like, Nina Garcia, like, I question your taste level. You know what I mean? And certain things. But I, I, and then she'll, like, put together something like the night manager, which fucking rocked. I love, I don't know if she's back doing the second season of the night manager when they bring that back. But that first season fucking ruled.

And I had a hell of a good time with something like Serena. You know what I mean? for as much as like, it's not great, but it's just like, I don't know. I don't know. I loved The Undoing, even though a lot of people were sort of very grumpy about that. I never watched The Undoing. That was good. I loved all of the memes about Nicole's giant coat and giant hair. Well, speaking of memes, too, the perfect couple.

So the perfect couple was, one of my favorite notes about this year's Emmy season is that the perfect couple and sirens are both eligible, even though they are essentially one year after another copies of this. same show, essentially. But of course, the perfect couple mostly existed for people as a viral opening credit stance. And my favorite thing about that was how freely everybody in that cast talked about it in the Junkett interviews where they were like, Susanna just like sprung it on us, like the weekend before we would start filming. And we're like, we're going to need you to learn these steps for this thing.

and like only like it was like Eve Hewson and like one other person oh Leav Schreiber we're like great sounds fun and everybody else was like I'm calling my manager we are not doing this like you could tell like Nicole specifically was like absolutely not I have an Oscar I am not doing the silly little Megan trainer dancer you fucking kidding me and yet it's there is something undeniably I think a little bit joyful to watch how uncomfortably and yet like they're doing it Nicole's doing it Dakota Fanning's doing it little you know whatever Jack Navol is doing it all on that little beach. Did you see The Fabulous Four? No. Who was the Fabulous Four again? It's Megan Malalley, Susan Sarandon. Shirley Ralph and Bet Midler. And it ends very similarly.

Although Betts Shirley Ralph have a longstanding relationship with each other. And they are singing, I can see clearly now, while everybody, including Oscar winner, Susan Sarandon is doing a choreographed dance. I mean, we know that Susan Sarandon can do choreographed dancing in movies because of... She's been in musicals. Well, I was going to bring up Elizabeth Town because everybody loves that scene. And she tap dances. No, so is it worth checking out The Fabulous War?

It is not a good movie. I had a great time. I still haven't seen Palms. Under no circumstances, this is it a good movie, but I had a great time. In the increasingly vast genre of four old ladies do stuff, haven't seen that one, haven't seen palms. It is the bargain bin version of that, but it is still a good time. Remember that movie from like forever ago where they like go on a road trip and it's,

uh, fuck, it's Kathy Bates. Hold on. I'm looking up Bonneville. I feel like it's Joan Allen. By the way, I watched Thelma again on the airplane home from California. Decent plane movie. Perfect choice. I love those two people.

I watched Seance on a wet afternoon on my flight back. Okay, so on the poster, it's only three women, which really, like, this was back in, this was back in 2006. We hadn't perfected the formula of four women. Jessica Lang, Kathy Bates, and Joan Allen, in a Pontiac Bonneville. And Hugh Bonneville. No, but it's Tom Scarrett. And yet also, Christine Branski's in that movie. Just shuffering the back seat of that car, y'all.

Like, come on. What are we doing here? What are we doing? Anyway. Back to things we lost in the fire. Good Cinematrix movie. Bonneville. Remember that one.

One word title. I don't know. Rotten Tomato score. Low. Let's just say low. Under 80%, but above 45. Oh, boy. Things We Lost in the Fire.

Okay, I've been saying there's some good stuff in here, and I really think it's these two performances. Okay, hit me. I do think that they're... I think Holly Berry is asked to do and say some ridiculous shit in this movie, and she at least makes it as close to believable as it kind of... She improves for me as the movie goes along. I think it's a matter of, like, the movie giving her better things to do as the movie goes along.

I like how basically after he relapses, I sort of, I enjoy, you know, the way she deals with that sort of, you know, complication in there, sort of realizing that she's gone too far with all of this, that she, you know, does want this person in her life and all that sort of stuff. It is kind of the Holly Berry special, because I will be a lifelong Holly Berry defender if I have. too, of like, this is in the vein of what some of her best performances are like introducing Dorothy Dandran's Monsters Ball. What is your favorite Hallie Berry performance?

I mean, probably introducing Dorothy Dandras, but I haven't seen it in very long time. I've at least seen Monsters Ball when we did the best actress draft on screen drafts. Right, right, right. Still not a good movie. They still also a movie where she is asked to do

and say ridiculous things, but still you know. Mark Forster pulls out ahead as a performer. A Susanna Beer-esque director, let's say. Right? I think Susanna Beer is a better director than Mark Forster. No, I said that wrong. Mark Forster, a Susanna Beer-esque filmography. Let's say that. Um, yes. Right? Yes. It's just sort of like, wow. Like, um, all right, we're going to take a second. The Mark Forster filmography is wild. Monstrous Ball in 2001, Finding Neverland in 2004. So it's just like, boom, boom. Oscar. Oscar. 2005, stay. Remember stay? Naomi Watts, Ewan McGregor.

What if we stayed? What if we stayed? 2006, Stranger Than Fiction, this had Oscar Buzz movie. 2007, the kite runner. 2008, do you remember? Also a paramount release this year that we're talking about. Yeah. 2008, do you remember that he directed James Bond, Quantum of Salas?

I do not. Absolutely do not. Machine Gun Preacher, 2011. World War Z, 2013, which was like, did he direct that movie? And then, 2016, the TIF premiere, Blake Lively, in All I See Is You, where I believe she's blind. Christopher Robin in 2018, a man called Otto in 2022. And in 2024, the film that was in, uh, in, uh, the film that was, uh, in, uh, existing. It listed in trailer form for, I'm going to say, two full years before it ever made it to a screen.

From the World of Wonder, Whitebird. No, they did delay that movie by like two years. They just kept kicking that can down the road. I saw that trailer literally starting in like 2021, I'm pretty sure. What did they call it? From the world of wonder. No, what it was, but it was something. It was like, because it said from in the trailer, and it's on the poster, and hold on a second.

because I will find it, Whitebird. Because it's like, what if we were nice to each other, books for children? Yeah, okay, no. But this one's like set in Nazi Germany, I thought. It is. No, it's Helen Mirren telling the story of when she knew a young Jewish boy in Holocaust. To like a bully, right? To a school bully.

Okay, no, I'm finding, it's got to be in the trailer because it's not on the poster. Hold on. I'm just going to mute. She's telling a bully about how she... She's just like, listen, don't be a bully. With her community theater friends. Don't be a bully. How do I know you shouldn't be a bully?

Well, I experienced the Holocaust. Hold on. Wonder. No, sorry. Whitebird. Oh, fine. Oh, okay. Here's what it is.

At the beginning of the trailer, it says, comes the next chapter of the wonder story. Where's Jacob Tromblay in this? Where in the... First of all, it's not the next chapter. It's several chapters ago. It's like 80 years ago. It is like...

Yes. Absolutely wild. If you liked Wonder, do we have a Holocaust for you? The next chapter in the COVID story. Prohibition Anywho Mark Forster Quite the filmography

Holly Barry Good actress People shit on her And certainly did At the time of this movie Because Here let's just give the filmography

Between Oscar And this movie For Holly Barry All right 2002 she's a bond girl Die Another Day Did you see that movie Yes

Did you like that movie? for the first like two-thirds of it no and then I remember the last third being like oh this just kicks into high gear and is great she plays jinx jinx who emerges from the surf you would never really expect that holly berry would win snatch game as judy garland but she does it

shut up that's the one that rosamund pike is in right but she's not the bad guy she's that's where you have the promo photos of rosamine pike with like a sword Stop it Why did she have a sword? Because there's sword fighting in that movie. Sure, okay.

Madonna's in the sword fighting scene. Toby Stevens seemingly is the bad guy? Sure. I don't know. William Lee also in that movie? Hottie. 2003, X2 and Gothica. Gothica, not a well-reviewed movie.

Man, was I excited? Was I excited for that movie, though? I was like, fucking Gothica. Hallie Barry, Robert Downey Jr., Penelope Cruz. Yeah, super excited. Penelope Cruz has such a small role in that movie. And Gothica, isn't the plot of Gothica very similar to the plot of Shutter Island? Yes.

Right? Yes, because it's an insane asylum. Yes. But it's like somebody who is like pretending to be a doctor, but they are actually also a patient? or the other way around? I forget the twist. Robert Towney Jr. does end up being the bad guy. The bad guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he's like, he's the psychiatrist. And, but she is also, that's right. The thing, the whole premise of it is, is that she's a psychiatrist who ends up getting committed because she's being. They say she killed someone? Somebody's gaslighting her. Right, right, right, exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Oh, it's all about like, telltale tattoos and stuff. Crazy. John Carol Lynch. Watched Cothicca. John Carol Lynch in that movie. And then in 04, it's Catwoman.

It finally happens. What if a cat was a woman? People treated and still somewhat treat Holly Berry because she makes Catwoman a very silly, but I would argue fun. Not just because I'm a gay guy.

Argue away, gay guy. Listen, you're watching Drag Race UK. They're going to do that scandalous lip sync. And when they do it, you're going to be like, fuck, I should watch Catwoman. Great song, great track, great original song from that movie. I think it was original. But people treated Holly Berry, like, she, you know,

I don't know, set MGM studios. on fire like she shot someone in the street like she had committed the worst movie crime of all time as if catwoman isn't anywhere isn't like as stupid uh okay is there anything as intelligence insulting more intelligence insulting in catwoman than there is in batman v superman did anybody treat ben affleck poorly after winning an oscar i did i did but it was just me so I mean, we were on the right side here. I was rude. But like, people make dumb movies all the time, but like Catwoman put her in movie jail.

Yeah. Okay. And it's stupid. Do you remember the name of the character who Francis Conroy plays in that movie? No. It is, in fact, Ophelia Powers. Awesome. Awesome.

Catwoman is awesome. Ophelia Powers. Do you remember the name of the director of Catwoman? Petov? Ptof. Single-named moniker, Ptof. My favorite part of Hook is when Gwyneth Paltrow turns around, looks at the camera, and says, Petoff. Fuck you.

You stupid bitch. Catwoman is not a crime. That's your PSA. Justice for Catwoman. Catwoman is not a crime. All right. Following that. And then in 2005, she has the Zora Neal-Hurston adaptation for television.

Their eyes were watching God, does a voice performance in robots, just like half of Hollywood. Oh, 6 is X-Men the Last Stand. Bad movie. Best Director. The wig that they gave her that movie. Terrible movie. It's all bad. What is this movie Perfect Stranger that she was in in?

It's a poorly reviewed thriller, which I believe. Kevin Costner? Oh, Bruce Willis, not Kevin Costner. Bruce Willis, yes. Care to remember what her character's name was in that? Rauena Price. Rueena Price. Sure. God bless it.

God bless these people. But besides, and that's the same year as things we lost in the fire. And then you don't really see her again in a movie until New Year's Eve in 2011. So, like, four-year break. She gets nominated for Frankie and Alice. Well, part of that time was that Frankie and Alice was on the shelf knocking around. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

They did a qualifying release, I believe, before a distributor was locked, they get her a Golden Globe nomination for Frankie and Alice in 2010. No one sees the thing except for the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, and then it gets released in 2014. Wild. Absolutely wild. Justice for Holly Berry, y'all. That's the thing is.

like, yes, the 2010s is a bit of a lost decade. She's in New Year's Eve. She's in Cloud Atlas, I will say, although not really, well, it's not her show. But she gets a pretty decent chunk of it when she's playing the reporter. Her car goes into the river, you know, all that sort of stuff. She's not my favorite part of Cloud Atlas, but that's not any sort of slight against her. She does get, I would say, the stuff with her and Hanks, when they're like old future people, I find to be very touching in a way I know a lot of people sort of just like because they're speaking the like pigeon English or whatever, but like I think it's very sweet. I don't know. When she's like, hey, hey, old man, come rest them bones or whatever. And it's just like, oh, it was very sweet.

She's one of these several dozen people in movie 43, once again, Cinematrix, Marketown. she's in kind of a rad movie in 2013 called The Call, which is... Oh, you're part of the gay people that love the call. Gay guys who love the call. Brad Anderson, a good director. And that movie, she's a 911 operator who, what's her face? Abigail Breslin calls her because she's locked in the trunk of a car, and Halle Berry has to figure it out.

And it's fun. I enjoyed it. I think it's very fun. You know who's in that movie. Nuts. Roma Mafia is in that movie. Roma Mafia is in this? I do need to see the call.

Yeah, you do. You really do. Yes. All right. Benicio, I thought, I was like, oh, yeah, Holly Berry, not in a ton of movies between this and her Oscar. Benicio del Toro's in, even less, winning an Oscar just a year prior. Yeah. Benicio won his Oscar for Traffic, of course, in 2000.

Um, he's nominated again very quickly after for 21 grams of nomination I always forget about. Like, count on me to absolutely not remember that he's nominated. That's a nomination, though, that you think was like, oh, yeah, he just showed up everywhere for that movie and it, he really did it. The real sort of explosion for Benicio del Toro comes, though, after he's in usual suspects in 95. That's when all of a sudden it's just like, this guy. And then he's in, like, the movie with Alicia Silverstone, and he's in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, and he's in The Way of the Gun, and he's in Snatch and all these sort of things. And so he wins the Oscar for Traffic because he's, like, the actor of the moment. And then, right, yeah, in between that, besides 21 grams, he's in The Hunted, which is a Friedkin.

Oh, it's a Freedkin movie. Friedkin with Tommy Lee Jones. There's that genre of movie where it's, like, two guys. and like that's the whole premise where it's just like it's one of them is on the run and the other is going after it. Rules of engagement or

whatever it's just like one of them's Bruce Willis. The other one is Colin Farrow. Didn't people think that it was a fugitive U.S. Marshals type deal? The poster certainly makes you makes people want to believe that. Interesting. It's a microgenre. I will say

I'm the like, if you plot a graph of the kinds of microgenres that I'm going to be really into. Two guys, quasi-military-coded, one sort of chasing the other. It's not in the corner that I'm really like all that into. Hearts War, Rules of Engagement, hunted, just not a woman in sight.

Or if there is a woman, she's like, distantly third-builded. Mark Hellingenberger. Mark Helleganberger, Connie Nielsen is in hunted. Yeah, it's exactly, Mark Halkenberger is such a good poll. Oh my God, like, absolutely perfect. If there's a subgenre that I'm going to be deeply interested in, it's woman who works in the cosmetics industry, maybe a little mousy.

Right. But due to a certain set of circumstances and having an evil boss, she becomes a vigilante in slashed leather pants. I didn't see it coming. How did I not see it coming? It's literally a movie about the beauty industry. You know, mine is more simple than that, and it is woman who's been a bridesmaid 27 times. That's more where I'm at rather than hunted.

But anyway, he's in Sin City, a very sort of like dude movie, but like it yanks me in there because I'm like, Ooh, like a cool visual thing. Britney Murphy. And also Britney Murphy. And also Rosario Dawson. Exactly. Exactly. And also fucking Clive Owen.

And, you know, yes. Yes. Alexis Bledell, remember? Okay. Sin City 100% a movie where the trailer is better than the movie. And I don't even necessarily mean that as a slight against the movie. That trailer was so fucking good. I really, really love.

The Sin City trailer. My favorite thing about Sin City was that it was in Cannes competition, and on that jury, was Anya's Varda and Tony Morrison. So whenever I think of Sin City, I imagine the two of them sitting together. There was a day in 2005 where Anas Varda and Tony Morrison sat down there and watched fucking Benicio del Toro cough up yellow piss because his face had just been plunged in a toilet by clock. Live Owen. That's what, and they looked at each other and they were like cinema. Yeah, yeah. What a weird movie.

They looked at each other and they're like, we're giving the palm to the Dardens, right? Yeah, yeah. Was that the second Dardin's palm? Yes, the bad Dardin palm. What should have won that year? 05, 05, 05, oh, shit, shit, I should know this. I love putting you on the spot for Cannes stuff. All right, 2005, Cannes.

What would I give the palm to Amir Costa Rica was the jury president Two-time Palm winner Oh, it's Cashet. Oh, wait. It's absolutely Cashet didn't win the palm For some Darden's bullshit? No. It won the, uh, it won Best Director.

Fuck Best Director. Fuck it right in its ear. I don't know. Whatever. Give fucking Joe's thoughts on Cam prizes. Give Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller best director for Sin City and let I wouldn't go that far. But it is very funny to imagine those two watching that movie.

And then like Del Toro spends however long in the fucking jungle with Steven Soderberg making 29 hours of Che. Which I still need to see. And that plays Cannes in 08 so the year after this movie. As one as one solid movie, right? I believe it was presented as one movie. And they got, like, an intermission.

Right. And, like, there was, I still don't know what the actual, like, you know, accepted, what's the real version of it, whether it's Che Part 1, the Argentine, Che Part 2, Gorilla. I have never seen it. I need to watch those. Again, is it about a woman who's been a bridesmaid 27 times? No, it's not. 2010, The Wolfman, gross. I don't know how far we want to, like, go down the line.

line with this. Well, okay. Two things I want to talk about. Yeah. Part of the reason why I was like, oh, good time to do that movie. Benicio's in the Phoenician scheme right now. You've seen the Phoenician scheme. I think he's quite good in that. So Phoenician scheme is a movie that's been sort of, um, I've seen all over the board. Truly across the board. Yeah. I would say, I hate, I will not use the phrase minor Wes Anderson because I find that to be quite condescending. I will say, you know how like there's a lot going on in asteroid city not just plot wise but like um thematically oh yeah yeah it's like a nesting doll and the same with the french dispatch to like a lesser degree but like there's a lot going on in terms of like what he's trying to say

with the french dispatch phoenician scheme is not that phoenician scheme um is just a silly billy little movie and i understand where like some people are like why are you doing that like but I think The trailer made me think he's doing like a Powell and Pressburger spoof basically Maybe and I haven't seen enough Powell and Pressburger to maybe like go for it

There are like scenes that are set in like heaven that I imagine are maybe sort of what that's going for. I just think Benicio del Toro and Michael Sarah and Mia Threpleton are both really funny and that's sort of where I said with that movie I just I already know I'm just trying to prepare people. I'm sorry if I said that

Michael Sarah in this movie I know I'm going to be howling at the moon I know I'm going to be barking like a dog I know I'm going to be Oh like horny Yes yes he's going to be so good So funny and I'm going to be so No yeah you will you're right

Fear I'll You know who's actually also Riz Ahmed is in that movie And it makes me want him to be like A main character in the next I could see that I would endorse that Yeah There's a while in the movie where you're like,

are we going to get any other women besides Mia Threpleton? And then Hope Davis shows up dressed as a nun. And you're like, thank you. Okay. I'm very excited for this movie. But tell me more about Benicio in it. Yeah, Benicio's the main guy. He's like the, he's the Reif finds in Grand Budapest.

He's like the main character he plays. Is that the vibe, though? Like, is he doing a Grand Budapest? Antic? Because that's not what I expect. He's not like running down, you know, like running away from, you know, pursuers or anything like that. But he's a sort of a wealthy industrialist slash like war profiteer who has to, you know, sort of a globe hop for a while to to get the funds to yadity, yada, yada, who cares. People are always trying to kill him. While at the same time trying to sort of. build a relationship with his estranged daughter, Mia Threppleton, who he wants to, like, leave all of his fortune to. And it's one of those things where it's like, oh, like, he's like, you know, not a good person. He's not, like, been a good, you know, he's, he represents a lot of, like, bad things. Um, but he's a little charming about it. He's not as charming as Ray Fines

is in Grand Budapest. But, like, um, I still think it's like, it's, It's that sort of, it's that sort of construction. I'm trying to think of, like, other, like, West Anderson movies that are that much, like, one guy is very much the lead, right? Whereas, like... Royal Tena Bombs. Yeah, but not even that. Because I feel like the family still is sort of, like, paramount in that.

Like, Royal gets his own sort of special place, obviously. But, like, Benicio is, you know, it's his most. movie. Anyway, I think he's very funny in it. I like when he gets to be loose. I like when he gets to be sort of, you know, he's so kind of gruff and grumbly in something like the French

dispatch, or what has he done lately even? I mean, obviously, I think he's so weird in those Marvel movies and the Star Wars movies in. But like, okay, so like Sicario. The Sicario movies is a perfect example. Where it's like, right, he's brooding, he's, you know,

he's, you know, you're supposed to be afraid of him. It's not the Benicio del Toro to me is like a character actor, not this like... I'm excited to see what Paul Thomas Anderson does with him in one battle after another. Well, he was in Inherent Vice. You hate Inherent Vice. I do hate Inherent Vice, and this is another pinch on thing, sort of. They're not saying it. They're doing that little, like, cutesy, cutesy. Like, what if it's not about anything? But he's like, he's built pretty high. You see a ton of them in that trailer. And I think he and Leo are, you know, they could be really funny together, so. I think he's the best thing about this movie. I think his performance is quite good. Oh, by a good margin.

Like, no slight against Callie Berry. I think he's very, he's better in this movie by a lot than he was in 21 grams. Like if, oh, yeah. You know, swap one nomination for another. Not that I would have nominated, well, no, probably wouldn't have given him an elite actor nomination in 2007, And even though there's some wobbly portions of that. Sure, sure, sure. I think there's so much about this script that is so bullshitty that the actors do a lot to kind of resuscitate and save.

He puts a lot of this movie on his back and sort of carries it. And not even for the more showy stuff, like where he's going through. No, he does really well in silence. You just sort of want to look at things register on his face. a lot in this movie um no it's really really good solid work it's really and again i i've always liked benicio del toro but i don't think i've ever been like oh you know who's one of my favorite actors is benicio del torro he's just sort of doesn't make enough movies no but also it's just like again when he sometimes does it's like it's cicario it's reptile it's the

hunter whatever right did anyone watch reptile probably not um never heard anyone talk about it um yeah Also, speaking of Phoenician scheme, Holly Berry was just on the can jury that had to watch that movie and didn't give it anymore. What is this Jamie Fox movie he's supposed to begin later this year? Huh? Is that a Netflix thing? Sports comedy drama, it feels very Netflix-y, but I'm actually not entirely sure. Written and directed by Jamie Fox, he also stars as a tow truck driver who is a basketball fanatic, especially for LeBron James. And this feels very like, we're going to just, like, make a movie that we can throw a bunch of, like, NBA cameos into it.

But, like, honestly, after what he's been through, let Jamie Fox do whatever he wants. Eva Longoria is in this movie. Robert Tony Jr. is in this movie. Benicio, DJ Khalid. The game. Is this a movie or a show? It's a movie. It's a film.

Oh. DJ Khalid. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know what to tell you. Crazy. Anyway, it's called All-Star Weekend. It sounds fake, but we'll find out if it's real.

Yeah, definitely agree with you. Benicio is by far the best part of this movie. For sure. For, for sure. Did this get any kind of like precursor anything? Holly Berry won a BET Award, but their best actress category also includes television, so your mileage may vary. Because Chandra Wilson's nominated against like, movie performances for

Honestly, give it to Chandra Wilson she deserves. I mean, she's so good. Not untrue. Is she still on that show? Oh, yeah. She's one of the... Are you one of those people that still follow Grace Anatomy? I haven't watched it in a couple of seasons, but every once in a while I'll sort of dip back and like

read up on like where things have been going or whatever, which I did some recently. She's still on there. She and Debbie Allen, I think, are sort of like, you know, beefing for, who's going to be the top dog at the hospital or whatever. Yeah. I can't believe that that show is still on the air. I mean?

People still watch it. Every time I, every time that I have a friend who, like, oh, yeah, Grey's Anatomy, I still watch it. I'm like, you are lying to me. This is a gaslighting attempt to make me think that this show is still like. Graze Anatomy from an early stage did a very good job of incorporating new waves of characters. that maybe like a couple of them stuck around for long term, and then they would sort of like, you know, every, you know, a few years later, it's another new wave of characters. So they did a good job of sort of replenishing their ranks and allowing the existing characters to sort of get you interested in some of the new characters. So often by hooking up with them.

So, all respect to Gray's Anatomy, a show that, I think COVID kind of broke me a little bit with Grey's Anatomy. They did a very, they did a season where, like, everybody in the hospital was dying of COVID. And it was just like, I don't want to watch this. For a whole season? Yeah. It was one of those things. It was an admirable notion, which was. To try to do the COVID year.

We want to be responsible. We are a well-watched medical show, and there's a lot of. disinformation out there in the public about COVID. So we want to sort of be responsible about this. And I respected it, but it also was deeply miserable slash kind of traumatic to watch. To watch, sure. And then so the next year then, they were literally like, so in the universe of this show, we took care of COVID. Like, it's fine.

Like, the unspoken thing was like, you're never going to hear about COVID. it again. Remember how the first lines of and just like that are, wasn't COVID crazy? Anyway. Yeah.

I'm excited to watch that premiere. This might be the year I start watching it. We'll see. Honestly, just go back to those first two seasons and just plow through them. I wouldn't go back.

I would just jump right in. Because like I've been following along with the discourse of the show. I know what's been going on. Big Died, Miranda's a lesbian. and Che Diaz. Honestly, I really hope they kill Aiden.

They should kill that man. How did they not leave him behind it last season? Didn't they decide that they couldn't be together? It is my biggest gripe with the show. It is fully my biggest gripe with the show that they brought back Aiden and put them together! I saw a photo of Carrie Bradshaw wearing the single most ridiculous thing

I've ever seen before in my entire life. It's like a giant oversized communion wafer atop her head. We as a culture have lost our patience with Carrie Bradshaw. I, however, was willing to be very patient with Carrie Bradshaw until they got her back together with Aden. And I was like, no, I've had enough with this messy woman. You can't stand with her through yet another round of this. I understand.

Aidan sucks. Aidan has always sucked. And the show's like, no, he's a great guy. I will say. And it's also just like, I don't care about any characters that are. breaking up and getting back together this many times. I don't. I don't care. Carrie does also suck, but that's a whole other conversation.

Anyway, maybe this is the year. Maybe this is the year. We'll see. The trailer for the new season, where she literally says she's like, her neighbor was complaining about her clomping around in her shoes. And she's like, shouldn't I be able to like wear the shoes that I want? A woman's right

to shoes. I'm like, you can't do that. You can't do that. That was a title of an episode, but it existed outside of like, you can't, like, you can't, like, you can't call back to your own show, like, as if it's a thing that you used to say, because you didn't say it. Joe, that's 60% of it just like that. God damn it, it made me mad. Um, I didn't watch this trailer. All I knew was Rosie O'Donnell will be there. I will watch for Rosie. I will be there. I might watch for just Rosie, honestly, and just like Rosie. I did, for the Demi podcast, I had Dan Rogie on, and we talked about, because Demi was on the puppy episode of Ellen, the episode where Ellen comes out for, like, literally two lines

in a dream sequence, but I was just like, fuck it. We're going to watch both parts of the puppy episode. But I mentioned the whole, I remembered clear as day, Ellen promoting her show that season, like sort of early on in that season, by going on the Rosie O'Donnell show. And they did the whole thing about, like, yes, this season, I could finally say it. My character comes out as Lebanese. And so I remember that part. The thing that I didn't remember is the two of them are literally just like dancing on the edge of, you know, of a cliff being like, Rosie being like, oh, Lebanese, a lot of people are Lebanese, maybe. I'm a little bit Lebanese.

And Ellen's like, you know, I've always kind of gotten that vibe from you, that you're a little Lebanese. And it's, I had forgotten just how much like Rosie sort of like winks at everybody. And then it was like seven years later that she would, that she would come out or something like that. Anyway, I love Rosie O'Donnell. What a terror. Yeah, Rosie, love you. You're a nightmare. Yeah, great. We'll always love Rosie. We'll always be fascinated and curious about Rosie. I think that's it.

Did you have any other notes? I just checked my notes. The only other note that I wanted to bring up is we talk about movies that are clearly using discarded B-sides of Thomas Newman. This movie is clearly using discarded B-sides of Gustavo Santoololalla. Yes. I will say, though, I do love a movie that gives you a sweet Jane needle drop. That was nice. Okay.

No. No, you don't like that? Okay. Speaking of cliches, you can't, you can't use the Velvet Underground in heroin sequences anymore. Can't do it Stop it Fair That's fair

That's like using That's like if this movie had a Bonnie Bair needle drop Like you can't do this anymore Like Well in 2007 That would be really forward thinking But yeah

And time machini But like you understand what I'm saying I do understand what you're saying I do understand what you're saying I just think it's a good song I don't know I understand I agree with you

Oh I mean it's great song Like no you're not You're absolutely not rocked You can't use Velvet Underground And heroin Heroin Sequences anymore Yeah Robin Weigert, why were you not in Smile 2?

I wanted you to give that creepy evil smile that you gave in Smile 1. That's all. Should we move on to the IMDB game? Let's tell our listeners what the IMDB game is. Yeah, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, a game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or an actress, and we try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front.

After someone gives two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. All righty. How are we doing this? Do you want to give first or guess first? I'll guess first. Okay. So I chose for you someone that we've done before, but not since episode 22.

Over 300 episodes. I think this person is free reign. Okay. We talked about Susanna Beers films, including one that might be her most seen, even though I haven't seen it. And that she is going to reunite with this star in Practical Magic 2. I have chosen for you, Sandra Ballick. Sandy B. I love it. I'm not going to guess Bird Box, although a lot of people did watch Bird Box.

I believe actually watched Birdbox, not like fake watched Birdbox. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well. That was when Netflix realized, oh, we can just put whatever on Christmas and people will watch it. Miscongeniality. Correct. The blind side. Incorrect.

Whoa. I think that's for the better. Yes, but I'm still surprised. It's really good of culture. I'm still surprised. while you were sleeping. Incorrect. Oh, wait. Okay.

I mean, her best performance. Okay, so your years are 1994, 2009, and 2013. Wait, before I do it, I'm, I already, like, I'm going to knock those out in one breath. Yeah, you are. Before we do, her best performance is in while you were sleeping. Say that, and keep saying that. It's one of those things that, like, people say. and it sounds like they're just sort of like

no, no, no, no, no, no. Being enough slur about it or whatever. And it's just like, no, like... That's a great performance. Go back and watch that movie. There is a classicism to the way she delivers romantic comedy in that movie. Like, it is really very, it's very precise.

The camera fucking loves her face in that movie. Like, it really is something. How many times the camera just sort of like lingers on her. her watching another character. It's so good. She's so good in that. It's also just like this kind of herculean thing that, you know, this character is doing something admonishable.

Right. She's gaslighting this entire family. Or at least, or going along with a lie. First of all, can we say Lifetime Achievement Oscar to the woman who plays the nurse in that movie who says, she's his fiancé. Nobody's ever pronounced the word fiancé that way. Well, next time, why don't you just remind yourself that you're single? I love her.

Great performances all around in that movie. Go ahead and marry her, you one bald basket. No, but Sandra Bullock pulls off this, like, the big confession monologue, I cry every single time. She pulls off this, like, this like exorcism of loneliness if you want to call it in this way where it's just like she can make the audience and all of these people understand why she would do this absolutely admonishable thing and that we would also believe that this family would forgive her like as the words are pouring out of her mouth it's a great performance there's the scene with her

and jack warden on the front stoop that is I melt I melt during that scene because it's like Oh Jack Warden So good in that movie Good in that movie

I love him in that movie And he's one of the He's like He kind of knows what's going on pretty early And he's just like listen Like I like you I feel like you're a good person Just like don't like

Leave this family in devastation And we'll be fine All right anyway 1994 speed 2009 is the proposal and 2013 is gravity. Absolutely. I did not make it hard for you.

The proposal, maybe the only Ryan Reynolds movie I like. Oh, well, no, I like just friends. I like just friends. I have not seen the proposal since I saw that movie in the theater in 2009, so I genuinely have no idea.

I do remember that Sandy dances to get low in the woods with Betty White. This was very much in the thick of Betty White off her rocker, hot in Cleveland, letter host SNL sort of days.

Do you remember this sketch when they bullied S&L into having Betty White host, where Amy Poehler plays the little kid who's like the little girl who's like catching frogs and fish at the river and she comes back home? She's like, I don't want to go to the dance or whatever. And Betty White's just in the corner just knitting. And like every once in a while she'll just like lift up her head and just be like, she's a lesbian. That's so funny. Anyway, for you. Who do you have for me? I, of course, went through the Susanna Beer Tree, and I lingered on, I'm going to mention it for like the fifth time, the perfect couple, which I watched all of last year.

Also, just noting the Susana Beer Tree. You make it sound like she's dead, and we've memorialized her. Fruit of the Susanna Beer Tree is this. The Denmark fruit of Susanna Beer. You have made the argument to me that you don't think this person was the... there dancing on the beach in the opening credits. And I honestly think she was, because I think when they cut to some wide shots, she is like, she's there and she doesn't look like CGIed in.

But we'll see. Jury's out. Isabella Johnny is in that show. Yeah. She's on that show. She's on that show. And, like, for a second there, you think she's going to be the killer. And it's kind of amazing.

Anyway, four films for Isabella Johnny. uh a possession yes adele h full title the story of adele h story of adele h um one

Oscar nomination for I think I'm about to get this wrong but Ishtar no but a very good guess um okay um quartet the other quartet no another very good guess

uh your years are 1979 and 1988 One of these is an Oscar nomination because she has two, right? She does. Because it's Adele H and

this one. Yes. Which the this one is Oh God, it's not courted it. 79 and 88. What could

88B, that would make it after Ishtar, correct? Yes. Ishtar's 87? Yes. Is it American as well? No. It is a film from

Well, actually Maybe. Hold on. Country of origin. No, France. Okay. France. still funny I take it

I take it 79 is also French No 79 is I want to say German Interesting Yeah She's nominated for 88 Okay so the

The official languages It's from West Germany and France But the language is our German, English, Romani, and Polish. This is like a... Oh, that's Nesferatu. It is. Nosephirontu, the Vampir. Directed by...

Furner Herzog. All right, so your 1980 movie... You will be the Nospherato. You are correct that it was... Isabella Janie, when you kiss the Nosephirato. This is my word. Furner Hartzahn. Best actress nominee.

Stars opposite, Gerard de Pardieu. How am I going to get you there? Okay. The title is her character's name. Right. Camille Cordell. There you go. Camille Claudel.

The thing about Isabella Johnny is like there's kind of a lot of possibilities. Right. Because you've also got like cousin cuisine, I believe, is her. Or am I wrong? I could be wrong. But there's a lot. Yay, hooray us. We did it.

That's our episode. If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at Thisheadoscurbuzz.com. Follow us on Instagram at ThisHad Oscar Buzz and follow our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Queen Margo is the other movie I was thinking of. L'Rae Margot. And of course, the remake of Diabolique. Anyway, you can find me on Blue Sky and Letterbox at Joe Reed, read spelled REID.

You can also find me and my Patreon exclusive podcast, Demi, myself, and I talking about the films and sometimes television appearances of Demi Moore and sometimes movies that she's not in, but she produced, like the Austin Powers movies, hand hints, if you like listening to Me and Chris make Austin Powers jokes. Go subscribe to Deme Myself and I at patreon.com slash Demi Pod. that is D-E-M-I-P-O-D. And you can follow me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance from time to time. And Taylor Cole for our theme music.

Please remember to rate like and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So don't be a creep like Holly Berry spying on. the very visible nudity of Benicio del Toro, be a normal person and give us a five-star review. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz.