This Had Oscar Buzz - 346 – Madame Sousatzka (w/ Taylor Cole!)

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Our friend and theme music composer Taylor Cole returns to us this week to talk about one of our most beloved stars on This Had Oscar Buzz, Shirley MacLaine. After finally winning her Oscar for Terms of Endearment, MacLaine took a few well-earned years off. Her return was this tale of a hardened piano teacher … Continue reading "346 – Madame Sousatzka (w/ Taylor Cole!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and French. Dick Pooh. The Academy Award-winning actress for Terms of Endearment. Well, I'll see you on Friday, Madam Susitska. The Academy Award-winning director for a Midnight Cowboy. Madam Iride.

Madam Sirzatska. The Academy Award-winning actress for... for a passage to India. Susatka. Yes, Suzatka. Varska. The Academy Award-winning writer for A Room with a View. Susatka.

Susatka. Shusatka. Together, they bring you a story of an extraordinary woman. Madam Susatka. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is paying extra close attention when we do charcoal drawings of nipples. Every week on This Had Oscar,

Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another at all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my apprentice, who isn't grateful enough for my own taste. Chris Fylo, Chris. I'm skateboarding. I am in a handbraised today, so it's like, no, I am not paying piano. Correcting for Carpal Tunnel? What's going on here? I have no idea what's going on. I've been in pain for months, and I woke up this morning, and I was like, I think we got to do something about this, but I'm sleeping weird. Well, best of fuck to you. Yeah, I mean, it happens. Right now I'm having a similar knee issues.

Guys, the human body is frail, and as you get older, it turns on you. Susatka is right to, say, protect your hands. And also, you know, posture. Poster is important. Poster is important for everybody. I can fix a lot of things. I cannot fix my posture. As someone with terrible posture who's constantly telling other people to fix their posture, that definitely creates a sense of a psychological injury within me. The hypocrisy I constantly embody. Learn from my mistakes. We are welcoming back, of course, our wonderful theme song artist.

Taylor Cole, welcome back to this had Oscar buzz. Hey, fellas. Thanks for having me. In a way, it's like you're here every week. This is true. We can't get rid of it. So I was, whenever I saw this movie on the schedule, I was like, first of all, rad because we get to talk about that Golden Globes through my tie.

Second of all, I was like, why? I couldn't remember why? I was like, why did Taylor request this one again? This is just like, it's so funny that, like, that you were just like, Suzatska, mine, and you were just like stamp it. And then watching the movie and it's just like, oh, right, the, like, the piano instructor sort of like aspect of it. Because our question usually when we have guests is why choose this movie. But I imagine that's a big part of it, yes.

Well, I had actually never seen it prior to now. It was you mentioned it at this point years ago. And I think you said something to the degree of like, if somebody, you know, our guest, if you're listening, if you ever want to do Madam Susatska, let us know because it didn't come up. And you were like, text right away. Well, because my piano teacher used to crack jokes about this movie all the time. Like, she would say, like, make jokes about Madam Susatka. And for years, because I started studying piano at age seven, I just thought it was some nonsense name. She was making up the way that people were saying like, so-and-so-me-gillicuddy.

Yeah, exactly. And then years later, I kind of just like, who is Madame Susatka? And then she's like, oh, is this movie. You're listening to this on Oscar-Buzz and you're like, she's real. Kind of, yeah. But by the time she stopped being my teacher when I was 17. So she used my teacher for about 10, 11 years. I had realized that it was like this fictional character that she was constantly comparing herself to both in positive and negative ways.

So it was this weird bellwether that my beloved piano teacher had used for years and years and years that I only at the very end realized was a concrete thing that I could have experienced. She was just like, I'm being a real Suzatska right now. Is this a thing for piano students? Gary's who learned how to play the piano, get at us if you had also piano teachers that would talk about Susatka. Certainly. I would hope that every piano teacher is referencing it because it was not only her saying like, oh, I'm being a real Susatka. It was, she would say, I'm not Madam Susatka. If there were ever times where I didn't feel motivated enough on my own, like she didn't feel like she had to be the one to motivate me and set all these rules.

It was essentially like, if you care about this and want to do this, you need to put in sort of the energy and the buy-in and impose this strictness on yourself. I'm not going to be Madam Susatka and do that for you. Gotcha. But there's also so many weird similarities between her and Susatka that I like saw. And this movie, first of all, I really loved engaging with this movie because of the ways in which like music pedagogy is both. It's not necessarily portraying her as, like, the perfect, wonderful teacher, but not also the nightmare teacher. Like, I literally, that's in my notes as I was writing down what I thought about this movie. Absolutely. Definitely true. Yeah. Yes. So it was, it was a, I'm sure we'll get into it more.

But in terms of that, as someone who is, you know, now a music teacher, but I don't teach private piano. I teach middle school choir. But took piano lessons for many years and just, you know, music pedagogy. It's, it's, I think this movie is a real interesting kind of. fascinating exploration of the ways in which music teachers have to, you know, include themselves in their process, but also separate themselves from their process and not let things get personal and sort of finding that line in an interesting way. And I imagine that that line sort of extends to a lot of, you know, kinds of prodigy. Absolutely. For the longest time, probably even still, when people talk about like, oh, what's, you know, one thing, you know,

you wish one talent you wish you had or like I'll watch you know groundhog day and the part in groundhog day where he learns how to play the piano by like going back to the piano teacher all time I've always just like I would like I wish I had you know I wish I could do that I wish I hadn't you know taken piano lessons as a youth or whatever and now every time I see people who are you know obviously like really good at piano or like obvious you know or or movies like this that really, like, get into the nitty-gritty of instruction, I'm like, oh, my God, it's so much harder, it looks so much harder than I think people realize, if only because it's not just musicality and, you know, sort of like practice and whatever, it's literally like, what are your

hands like? What are your fingers do? You know what I mean? It's just like, I feel like that would be like my biggest limitation to learning piano is like I have these fucking stubby little fingers and I just like can't make them like I would not I can't imagine I would be able to make them do with like a really virtuistic uh a piano player would be but your body develops in that way especially if you're spending that much time so for me it's less like oh I don't have the right hands I feel like my hands and fingers would develop into that as I would spend the time I don't have the hand-eye coordination because, like, there is no difference between catching a ball and playing a note on a piano to me. There is a huge difference between catching a ball and playing.

For me and my body and my brain, dodge a piano. For me, my body and my brain, it's all the same thing. The thing that can't make me do one is the thing that can't make me do the other. See, the joke I'm constantly making about myself is that I am incredibly coordinated from my, like, the middle of my forearm to, the tips of my fingers. Everything else is absolute nantes. If you watch me try to throw a baseball, you'll be like, how does that man play the piano? But somehow, the two things are completely separate. That's what you're doing. Well, the funny thing is, like, Chris, you're absolutely right that you're like, there are sort of subtle shifts to your anatomy the more time you spend

at the piano and just the way that your muscles kind of grow and bone structure just, you know, does shift to adjust as you do that more and more. You do have like a third eye that. grows out of the back of your head. Oh, of course, yes. You slowly morph into a bug-like creature. But the reason I stuck around long enough to have the sort of discipline to do that mostly comes out of the fact that I have been a lifelong people-pleaser. And when I wanted to quit on several occasions, my mom was like, all right, well, then you have

to tell your teacher that you're going to quit. You know, at your next lesson, you have to go and in-person tell her that you're not going to take it anymore. It was a great tactic. And she would not do it for me. And every time I would think I was going to go in and quit, I would chicken out. And I was, like, too afraid of that either conflict or disappointment. So I would just keep going. And thank God that I did.

And you didn't even have a scary Susatka. No. I had someone who was actively avoiding being a scary Susatka. You had the inner Susatka inside your head being like, nope, like, can't do it. Like, can't. See, Susatka really does work in a boogie man in this type. of way. She's the Santa Claus A of the piano world. Right. Yeah. Yeah, we just had a whole episode where we talked about the secret queerness of the Santa Claus. Oh, oh, I was going to say, for those of our

listeners, who every once in a while will comment and just be like, this is one I've never heard of before. Like, this is your, this is our gift to you, this Pride Month. Like, this is, I imagine this will have the highest rate of people being like, that's a movie? Like, literally never heard of it. Amazing. Which, unless you're like a super like next level awards nerd who's just like, ah, uh, the three-way glows die. Yeah. But like, that's the only, even though it is directed by an Oscar winning director and it is written by an Oscar winning screenwriter.

And two things I did not know. Recently Oscar winning actress. Two things I didn't know up until like the credits were rolling on this movie was I like did not realize this was a John Schlesinger movie and did not realize that Ruth Prower, Javala did the screenplay adaptation. Well, this is also the most Merchant Ivory movie to not have the involvement of James Merchant or, or excuse me, James Ivory or Ismail Merchant. Yes. Down to the screenplay, of course. And the production design or is the same woman who did. room with a view

remains of the day how it's end. You can really see them you know getting the script and being like well maybe not this one but also

I think the Schlesinger things about this movie are such an interesting texture for that type of merchant ivory scene you know very early on in the movie I was like they're going to go to a department store at some point

every Schlesinger movie always got to go to a department store or at least the ones that I've seen. The second that I was done watching this movie, I put on Midnight Cowboy, which I'd never seen before. So this was... First time ever watching Midnight Cowboy, I watched it literally at midnight on a Friday night. And because, you know, I'm doing this, like, thing where I'm watching all of these, you know,

queer movies for Pride that I've never seen before. And I know that Midnight Cowboy sometimes gets sort of lumped in with that. I think for some good reason. I think, you know, obviously there are queer themes, although it is very much, for a movie with queer themes, they sure do say faggot a lot in that movie, but also like Schlesinger being, you know, a gay filmmaker and all that sort of stuff. So it's very, very interesting watching that movie and Suzatska, because like the thing about Schlesinger, too, is just like his career, you know, had a lot of levels to it.

There was a lot of peaks and valleys in there. And at some point, you know, he's making these really sort of like poor. His last few movies are really, really sort of poorly reviewed. But even like through, it's just a very, it's a very interesting, I will say, you know, filmography. I saw, speaking of queer movies, I saw Sunday Bloody Sunday semi recently. He also directed movies, like he directed Darling, the Julie Christie movie that she won her Oscar for.

directed far from the Madding Crowd, which was another Julie Christie movie, Day of the Locust, Marathon Man. If you've ever seen, even if you've never seen Marathon Man, you have probably seen something that is inspired by it, the very famous sort of like dental torture scene where they drill into Dustin Hoffman's tooth and Lawrence Olivier is there being like, is it safe? And Dustin's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, great, one of the great movie history shading. moments of Oh, right, Olivia and Hoffman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching Midnight Cowboy, the other thing about it that I thought was so striking was it's two years removed from the graduate.

Watching Dustin Hoffman sort of like traverse that territory from his character in the graduate, which like even if you know about Dustin Hoffman that he was this like incredibly serious sort of actor, done a lot of theater, blah, blah, blah, and like in his character in the graduate, would sort of, you know, is, sort of belies a lot of that because he's supposed to play this sort of, you know, innocent or whatever. And then like two years later, Midnight Cowboy,

he is like eight levels deep method playing this, you know, sort of wretch of the earth, sort of like New York City scammer. You mean like Dustin Hoffman. The journey from Twunk to Rat Boyfriend. Honestly, like, yes, happening in real time. in the late 1960s. Yeah. So it definitely, I feel like I'm getting more and more of a,

no longer is the only John Schlesinger movie I've ever seen the next best thing. And that was true for a very long time. So that's, that was good. That was fun. And if you want to check out my letterbox, I imagine I'm going to have some thoughts on the night cowboy.

But Susatka is closer to his whole deal than something like eye for an eye. Right, you see more of like the Sunday Bloody Sunday version of Schlesinger in this. The idea of these characters and their place in this world that Schlesinger is putting us in, you know. Yeah. Sussatska's place as not entirely this outsider, but an outsider in her own way. And kind of an outsider, even within her own, you know, mind because of her traumas and such. you know she's in this neat little box she's and like we leave her where she's you know staring out the window and she's probably forever going to be the figure staring out the window you know yeah

and and the sort of i think first 20 minutes of this movie really does a good job of convincing us the audience that she is a bigger deal than she actually is like the way she's shirley mclean yeah she's surely mclean the way she's talking about her own method the way in which uh my next mom wants to have her as this teacher. Right. It feels like she is, you know, like really big potatoes. Her legend has preceded her. Right.

And as the movie goes on, you see more and more show. She really just is kind of queen of this very tiny little subculture of the piano world. Queen of her third floor. Yeah, exactly. And within there, she's everything. But outside of that building, it's, you know, she's not getting recognized. She's not winning teaching awards. She's just kind of got her own thing going on.

It's a movie that really. burrows deep into her character, but allows you these windows into her character that is not just her, like, sort of monologing or even the shots where, like, you get, like, these little sort of, like, flashes back to her childhood, which, like, I could have probably done without. I think the movie doesn't really need them. Because I think, like, you say, like, they communicate so much through just that little apartment of hers, how sort of full it is of, you know, books and framed photographs and, you know, chachis and, you know, uh, keepsakes and memoirs and whatever, I feel like you get so much out of these sort of, you know, small gestures, the way that she'll,

like, you know, wrap up a gift for, you know, um, oh, I cannot remember the, the kid's name now. Monack. Yes. Um, in these like, sort of like layers of tissue paper or whatever that you imagine. She's not really, she's not a hoarder exactly. not a shut-in. She's not like that level, but it's just like, you get the feeling that it's just like, we're like three clicks away, you know, from this at any sort of moment. Yeah, like her apartment's rotting and we cut to Twiggy's apartment upstairs and it's beautiful. Sure, yes. And then

we cut to Dame Peggy downstairs and it's just like, oh, like things are, you know. The Dame Peggy stuff in this movie. Her final movie. Yeah. Yeah. Gets that BAFTA nomination for this movie for showing up and being Peggy Ashcroft. Yeah. I like the stuff in this movie where it's like, here's the periphery of the entire building and all of these people in there, these secondary characters that kind of paint this full portrait of, you know, life in this building and these people who are kind of on the fringes of this, you know, higher art society.

But I don't know how much the Peggy Ashcroft stuff is necessary. Well, certainly the part. where, like, it's cutting away from the main story entirely, and we're dealing with, like, Peggy Ashcroft in her, like, hospital bed. Right. Yes. And the husband were... But, like, I like the stuff where it's, like, dinner party at Peggy Ashcroft's house, like, that kind of stuff. I really enjoyed that, those things. Well, I wonder if the other people in the boarding house have more to do in the novel. And the novel is sort of maybe a rich kind of tapestry of this community rather than sort of focusing in on just, you know, Manek and Susatka. Well, and can I tell you, I love a story about a boarding house, like the thing where like a bunch of different people who are like very different from each other are sort of thrown in. I feel like that's where I imagine maybe the Ruth Prowor Javala sort of the thing happened. It's just like, yes, well, like you are the Oscar winning screenwriter of a room with a view. Like, come along and, you know, tackle this one as well. Obviously, this is not as good of a movie as a room of the view, but what is? So, well, true. And I appreciate that a movie, there's something that is value add to a movie like this that feels like you have all different kinds of life and visual life in such a small, close-knit quarters, and everybody kind of feels isolated to their own story. I do think that adds something to it. I think maybe the Peggy Ashcroft stuff just adds the least. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's right. All right, Taylor, we're going to get to the plot description portion of our podcast. But first, Chris, why don't you let our listeners know if they are not already part of the great turbulent brilliance family, why they really, really want to be? I mean, you should be because over on this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance, we're having a lot of fun and you can join for only $5 a month. What are you going to get over there on that Patreon? Well, you're going to get two bonus episodes every month, the first of which comes on the first Friday. This is what we call exceptions. These are, this had Oscar Buzz rubric approved type of movies, but they managed to score a few nominations.

So we're not going to do them here on the main feed. What did we do this month? We finally did interview with the vampire. The Vampire Chronicles. It's a good time. It's a real good time. Our exception episodes are all good time. but you got a giant bank of episodes you can go back and listen to right now for that $5 a month.

Movies like Beloved Greats like Mulholland Drive, Inside Lewin Davis, my best friend's wedding, and then less so beloved not greats like Phantom of the Opera, which we had with her friend Natalie Walker. How dare you? House of Gucci. You know, maybe things that you might feel a little. bit of both like vanilla sky and the mirror has two faces. There's a whole nearly two years worth of exception episodes over there and they're all a good time. However, on the third Friday of every month, you're going to get something a little more wild. We call it an excursion. These are

deep dives into Oscar ephemeral we love to obsess about on this show. This month we're going to be talking about we found do not tell the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences somebody uploaded yeah nobody narco on us all Alan Carr Oscars to YouTube we're going to be talking about the snow white Rob Lowe of it all

I want to talk about Alan Carr who are we but to not talk about a gay guy but we've also done things like deep dives into EW fall movie previews we've recapped other award or old award shows like the Indy Spirit Awards. We've done MTV Movie Awards. We've done Golden Globes before. We had our own game night. We talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables. It's all a good

time. So come on over to turbulent brilliance. It's patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Five dollars a month. Indeed. All right. I'm going to pull out my stopwatch, Taylor limber up. We We are going to talk about this week the 1988 film, Madam Susotska, directed by John Schlesinger, written by Ruth Pover-Javala, based on the novel of the same name by Bernice Rubens. This movie stars Shirley MacLean, Naveen Chowdry, Shabana Azmi, Dame Peggy Ashcroft, Robert Rieti, Twiggy, aforementioned Twiggy. Will we have time to talk about the cycles of America's Next Stop Model, where she was the judge, perhaps? Distributed by Universal Pictures, although I did make the note that it's Cineplex Odeon films. Yes. Production company.

That's a trip back in time. They actually have an interesting history. Like, they were the production company for Last Temptation of Christ. Interesting. I only really know of Cineplex Odeon because, like, that was a chain of theaters in Canada. Yeah, when I would go up to Toronto and whatever. I would see them. I grew up.

I grew up going to Cineplexiodion in Skokie, Illinois, so it was not exclusive to Canada. Fantastic. Skokie, Illinois, a town I only know of because of the usual suspects, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This movie world premiered at the Venice Film Festival in September of 1988. Shirley McLean wins the Volpe Cup for Best Actress. We'll talk about that. It went to the Toronto International Film Festival soon thereafter, and then finally opened in the United States on October 14th, 1988.

It opened in 16th place and limited release with $172,000. This was the week that the accused opened with Jody Foster. So in one way, they did not tie, which was the opening weekend of the box office. We'll talk a little bit more about that box office top ten because I think it is kind of fascinating. But for the moment, Taylor Cole, I'm about to start our stopwatch. Are you ready to give a 60-second plot description for Madam Suzatska? All right, and begin. Irina Susaska is an aging piano teacher with an eponymous teaching methods.

She selectively delivers her free, and exercising how studying piano can make you grow as a person, hating any focus on notions of fame and fortune. 15-year-old Manick is the child of an immigrant mother with a small Indian food catering business, himself a talent to classical pianists. Susaska takes on Manick and their partnership thrives, so she quickly becomes a bit controlling, forbidding him from roller skating and often having him stay for dinner and sleep at her house,

befriending the other borders, and flirting with aspiring pop singer Jenny. Susaska's ownership over Manik's identity as a pianist causes friction in competition with Manick's mother, fueled by the baggage of herself, having burnt out as a performer. She declares Manick not yet ready to perform in the spark that drove their early lessons dwindles. After a hearsuit catering mishap, Manick's mom needs some cash, so Manick takes up Jenny's manager, boyfriend, Ronnie, on the opportunity to make his concert debut at a festival he's organizing. Suska begrudgingly attends, impressed with and moved by Manick's playing until the moment where he accidentally skips eight measures and the conductor leaving the accompanying

or she's kind of a jerk about it. Manick recovers but leaves the stage in embarrassment. Turns out most of the audience didn't even notice. Souska is congratulatory, giving him a very Carroll-Dweck-growth mindset peptop. But Madag knows he's gotten all he's going to get out of his time with Sousaska with continuing public performance being a priority. He's not sure she'll support. He goes to study with Mio Millev and a construction crew descends on Sousasas house. Two seconds over. Very good. Once again, I practiced this a few times and had it under a minute. Very flight of the bumblebee of you. That is, yes.

Excellent work there. Excellent. Yeah, a couple of things you touch on there. One of which is, and I think this is a decent place to start because it starts with, you know, his mother bringing him to Madam Susatka. I like the way that the film allows you to sort of come to your own conclusions about his mom, that she's not sort of painted as this kind of saintly person, that she has sort of, you know, she's made sacrifices for him, but she's also behaving selfishly. but she also, it's like understandable that she's behaving selfishly. And like you really sort of get to, you know, again, just sort of like come to your own conclusions about her without feeling like the movie is sort of pressing on you in any way. Yeah, I mean, and it's the same for Susatska herself, who, you know, has the line about, you know, how she feels like she's a man ex-mother because every mother has to be in love with the son she creates and sort of the skirting of that line. What a good line.

It is a good line. I really like, really like, moments in the movie that really hits. you is just like, oh, this movie does, like, has a good understanding of, you know, this particular relationship that they've drawn between these characters. And both, both of Manick's mother figures are people who are clearly looking out for Manick in a way where it's, yes, there is, there are selfish and unselfish elements to both of it. And those just, you know, they're so similar, but in ways that are clashing with one another. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think a, I think a lesser version of this sort of, you know, has a little bit more of a halo, maybe on the mom, or has this sort of like, you know, sort of that the eventual confrontation that you do get in the movie

between the mom and Madame S. Ends on more of a note of like, Madam S just got told. And in this way, they're like, they both kind of get told in that scene, right, a little bit, which I kind of like. it's to me I'm again my I have had a lot of piano instruction several teachers over the years but the one who you know the from my the one I had from ages seven to 17 is the one who I most think about when watching this movie sure and the weird thing is my I didn't have this experience sort of with you know your teacher competing with your parents over who's sort of calling the shots and things um and I can say it's I loved that I kind of have had the support on both ends to make sure I was sort of the one who was really feeling the drive to continue. But that did not stop my parents from occasionally talking shit about my piano teacher. Sure, of course. They would be like, oh, she's crazy. And like, her methods are

weird and, like, socially bizarre. Like, they certainly had things to say about it. But I'm so glad that they, you know, really gave her the benefit of the doubt about all of it, which is. Well, and I also, like on the flip side what this movie does is a lot like paints a very realistic portrait of somebody who like not only has sort of like shut herself into her studio with her memories but is also like somebody who has lived her entire life within the arts and thus like the primacy of the sort of like

the artistic impulse the idea that like the music has to come from inside you and the idea that, like, you know, she makes some, she makes, you know, she's sort of reveres, it's all sort of self, self-evident that this is sort of the highest calling, you know what I mean, this, you know, and, and she makes a mention one time, she's arguing with, I believe the, the, the, the, the boy, Twiggy's boyfriend, what is he, an agent, a manager, something, like, he's the suit, right? He's the suit in the situation. And she says something about how he has to, like, essentially, because he grew up in India,

he has to learn all of, you know, or that his mother grew up in India or whatever. And, like, he has to learn all of European, you know, musical sort of history in order to catch up to everything. And it's one of those things where it's like, I feel like nowadays there would be so much more sort of, like, hand-wringing about a statement like that, which, like, is from Susatka's perspective, very obvious that she would sort of, you know, come to it from that perspective. And also, it allows the movie to sort of take it as a given that, like, yeah, this is the world that he has to sort of enter into now. Is this like very, you know, the sort of the hegemony of, you know, European musical theory? And I don't know. It's, it's, it's,

one of those things where it allows Susatka to be within that time and space, within that kind of, you know, type of person who's, you know, she never really has to fully apologize for her methods. She never has to, like, you know, change her methods. I love that scene where she's up on the rooftop. I believe it's with Peggy Ashcroft, but I think it could be with somebody else, where they're just sort of like, where she's just like, aren't you a little too hard? And she's like, no, nonsense. like, you know, artists are too sensitive. They need to have discipline, like, that kind of a thing. And I was just like, you know what? Like, you go off, Madam Susboska. I mean, and there's the line near the beginning of the movie where she says, you know, I'm not just teaching music. I'm teaching the whole person. And when her former student then comes back and says, you know, I may not be the best musician because of you. But when things get tough in the world and I don't have the audiences that I want, you have this, you know, this hardness that you built in me is the thing that allows me to get through at all. And for my money, the greatest film ever made is Michael Powell and Emmerc Pressburger's The Red Shoes.

And one of the things I love about it, among many things... You do give a fuck about the Red Shoes. I do. Oh, yeah. It's true. One of the things I love most about it is that it really explores this sort of what does it take to be a great artist and what do you have to give of yourself and what do you have to sacrifice from the rest of your life? And in that movie, one of the things that contributes to the eventual tragedy at the end is that Lermontov essentially tells Vicky that, you know, you can't have a life outside of dance. This needs to be your entire thing.

And he is ultimately really sheltering her from the rest of the world, not only in a physical sense, but in an emotional sense. And Madam S, with Manick, has a sort of similar ideology, but also saying, no, you need to be prepared to engage with the outside world. Like when stuff, you know, people are going to throw shit at you in the world, you need to have that sort of hardness and be prepared to take it and sort of be able to assert yourself as an artist, to be able to communicate something, to be able to move an audience and have that self-confidence. And it is a, you know, I think more enlightened take than what Anton Walbrook is pervaying in that movie. But to me, it's that type of discussions in movies that are like my favorite thing that a piece of narrative can engage with, which is why I, you know, for all it's actually. grow masculine energy. I love Whiplash. I was just about to bring up... It's drumming wet red shoes.

And one of the things I love about the movie is that while it is a very confident piece of filmmaking, it very intentionally asks more questions than it answers and leaves a lot of the interpretation of is Terrence Fletcher, J.K. Simmons, are his methods necessary?

Are they worthwhile? Is his philosophy correct or incorrect? And Susatka certainly does, I think, a lot of that as well, particularly with the, you know, like, Miles Teller has the two fathers. He has his real father, Paul Riser, and he has his intense music

teacher. Like, this feels like a... God, I totally forgot it was Paul Riser. Yeah, yeah, it is. Well, and also, like, the final note of whiplash, like, to what degree are you supposed to interpret? What are you going to feel about that last moment and what it says about...

I mean, like, Damien Chiselle has said, well, like, this is what happens after the end of the movie. The thing that you never wish a director would say about their movies and it's just like it to me like well yeah like what he says is so clear but to a lot of people it is not yeah and uh i don't know i think i think you know the kind of roarshackness of that should be preserved because it makes a movie more interesting you can talk about it more um and you can certainly have that conversation about the red shoes i'm not sure you can have it about susatka a little bit it is a little bit more tidy yes of a

movie, but not as much as you would think. Like, I think a lot of our listeners who maybe haven't seen this movie and we're describing what it is, they think it's a lot closer to, you know, a lot of other different type of movies that it sounds like. And I don't think it's all that dissimilar, but I think the Schlesingerness of it helps, you know, kind of, it's a little shaggier than that. It's definitely shaggier in a way that I think, yeah. becomes it. Yeah. And I think a lot of those

like lessons that we've talked about are presented so much more shaggier. It's not this neat, tidy, candlelit, you know, heartwarming message throughout the movie. Yeah. There's a real good candlelit heartwarming scene when they're doing their little four-hands duet at the dinner party

about that got me. That got me. I also like the scene where it's one of the scenes where she's sort of, she's scolding him about something. sort of later in the movie, and she sort of references the bookshelf right behind him or whatever. And she's like, do you even read the books that I give you and this sense that, like, it's not even just the playing. It's the idea that, like, you know, read, you know, read these books because this is where you will, you know, connect to this sort of great, greater, you know, sort of, you know, world greater than yourself, right?

that, like, if, you know, you have to spend all of this time, you know, preparing and so, but you can at least read these books and sort of connect to, you know, whatever, Dostoevsky or these sort of greater cultural. And you, this is not just her sort of like cracking the whip because of it. Like, this is something like she genuinely, you know, believes. And sort of, this is sort of a core principle of her. Again, sort of this, this primacy of this world of art, this world of culture that sort of feeds on itself and that

you can nourish yourself through immersion into it. And it's not just sort of, you know, scales and posture and, you know, whatever. It's also I don't know, just sort of like putting yourself in the realm of these

great thinkers. And I don't no, I found all of that very, you know, very compelling from this movie for this movie that is ultimately, as you say, Chris, you know, shaggy and a little just sort of like, I think you could probably fairly call the visual aesthetic of this movie pretty flat, and which a lot of, it's sort of reminiscent of, I think, a lot of contemporary English movies of the time. Even, I watched, speaking of my little queer movie journey, I watched the, the indie movie Get Real, which was from 98, which was like 10 years later.

Awesome movie, but like has a very sort of like similar. It's just like, oh, right, like all of this stuff. It doesn't look like TV because like TV at the time looked so much worse. But it has this sort of aesthetic of like, oh, you're just sort of like this sort of like kitchen table, you know, aesthetic, right? Where it's just like you're sort of, you're in these homes. You're not really sort of doing anything particularly ambitious. And although there are a couple moments in Get Real that are. actually really ambitious. The dance, the little school dance scene in that movie is like one of

the best things I've seen in a queer movie. Um, uh, anyway, that's, I need to remember we both said we wanted to watch prick up your ears. So I'll try to watch. Oh, it's on the list. Yeah. Um, well, the heavy visual lifting in this movie is done by her various raps and shawls. Yes. Including, including the very incredible one where she's like, youhoo, like looking over her shoulder on the poster. Her web truly does connect them all. Madam Suezs-Ox's web does connect them all.

Yeah, I think that's perfect. So I guess let's talk about the Shirley McLean of it all to sort of get into the Oscar buzz of this movie because she wins. She's obviously like she has such a, you know, phenomenal career. Like before the Oscar,

that's why the Oscar was such a big deal. She had sort of, she makes the line of like, you know, this this ceremony has been longer than my career and whatever and she's you know she's in she gave us our patreon name yes she gave us our patreon name curbulent brilliance but she's you know she's in um sweet charity she's in all of these sort of she's like adjacent rat pack adjacent and all of these things she's in movies like obviously the apartment which is such a major sort of you know touchstone for filmmaking in general american filmmaking um uh The Children's Hour, Irma Leduce, like, all these sort of, you know...

Sun came running. Yes, exactly. I mean, like, Sun came running. She just, like, shows up in that... And that's a good movie, and then she shows up and just, like, takes that movie to the stratosphere. Well, not shows up. She's in the whole movie. But, like, in, like, the third act of the movie, she really kicks it into this higher year

that makes it about so much more than it was otherwise. And then even into the 70s, she's doing, you know, the... turning point and being there and whatnot. So terms of endearment, it finally all comes together. She gets her Oscar. By that point, as she makes reference to in her, you know, speech, she's already sort of known for her acting, but also for her sort of, you know, things she said about transcendental meditation and all this sort of stuff. And psychic acupuncture, how dare you? Get the clinical name, right? She does a small role in the Cannonball Run 2 in 1984, which I just watched before, not the movie, but her scene.

She and Mary Lou Henner play a pair of actresses who are coming off of a set where I think they're doing the sound of music because they're both dressed as nuns when they encounter Bert Reynolds and Dom Deloise and they find out about this race. So it's just like, you know, cannonball runs full of, you know, 20 little bit part. it's for people or whatever. So she's one of those people. And then she doesn't make a movie for four years. Madam Sizatska's her sort of, you know, breaking the seal from four years off of acting, which to me makes the Golden Globe win make a little more sense. Not that she's not like great in this movie, because I do think she's great in this movie. But this is such a movie that like didn't really have a presence very much throughout the rest of the Oscar season, Certainly not as much as guerrillas in the mist did or the accused did.

But if this is her big comeback, essentially her next, her follow-up role to terms of endearment, and I'll do respect to Cannonball Run, too. It makes a little more sense. It's her North Country. You know what I mean? It's her follow-up. Well, especially a follow-up of someone who was seen as overdue for an Oscar, because even today, you do run into a lot of these cases where,

it's like if someone has multiple nomination that is considered overdue for a win, it takes a lot to get someone nominated again. You think of someone like Kate Winslet, who was there anything between the reader and Steve Jobs? nomination-wise? I don't think so. That's a decade. But Mildred Pierce being in the middle of that is a little bit of an asterisk because, yes. But no, your point, your point remains.

it is especially an Oscar that feels that momentous, you know what I mean, that feels that sort of like long, you know, long coming. That's why the fact that Meryl Streep followed up the Iron Lady with like one of her most fertile periods for Oscar nominations is so funny because it's like the whole, the popular conception was just like, once Meryl gets her third, they'll stop nominating her for every little thing. And then they're like, Florence Foster Jenkins into the woods, like whatever the fuck. Now we are finally into, not finally, it's not like I've been relishing this. It took her not making movies. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially, yes, it did.

And now she's settled into her, you know, dating Martin short period. One of the things I also love about Shirley MacLean taking the four years off and then coming back with Madam Susotska is, she then goes on this like kind of banger mini run where she goes steal magnolias into postcards from the ad, 1989, 1990. two of my favorite Shirley MacLean performances and two like really kind of like iconic you know she's she's definitely certainly with postcards from the edge she's um she's drafting off of the terms of endearment thing right this like iconic mother with this very sort of you know difficult relationship with her daughter but like y'all and like seal magnolius to a certain degree is a goblin mode of the same thing like Aurora Greenway is already a real piece of work. Yes, that is true. It's the two modes of Aurora Greenway sort of like depart and one goes into Weezer and one goes into Doris Mann from Postcards from the Edge. You're absolutely right. Steel Magnolius is a movie that like the children know about. Everybody, you know, it's got their quotables. People have seen it. It's on cable all the time. I do feel like the

children don't know about postcards from the edge. And like, seek it out. It's Mike Nichols directing. It's Merrill essentially playing a version of Carrie Fisher. It is certainly Shirley McLean playing a version of Debbie Reynolds. It's so good. I think Merrill's great. I think if nothing else, watch it for Shirley McLean hopping on a piano. Shirley MacLean not getting a nomination for that is absolutely. It's bizarre. It's so bizarre. Like, God love Diane Ladd, God love, you know, David Lynch. Diane Ladd getting a nomination for Wild at Heart instead of Shirley MacLean for postcards from The Edge is the weirdest fucking thing. Joe, pull up that lineup.

We got, we got to do this. Who are we kicking out? All right, hold on. Pulling it up. Well, I can tell you by heart, this was the year of Whoopi Goldberg wins for Ghost. Not taking that away. Lorraine Brocko is nominated for Goodfellas, not taking that away. Mary McDonnell for Dances with Wolves

who I think is quite good in that movie But I would understand if you would want to get rid of her And then Annette Benning for the grifters Yeah, it's Mary McDonald's sorry She's getting that Passion Fish nomination Which I would never take away That is true, that is true It's a good category though overall

Bring up at some point Bring up the Wikipedia page For the 1990 Oscars And take a look at Joe Peshy looking like Cab Calloway from the Blues. It's really funny. Um, it's just very funny. Anyway, um, yeah. Like, but like, so like, yeah, so then all of a sudden, like, Shirley's back in a big way into like the 90s. And even like, she's just then working a lot, even if it's not like, it's guarding Tess. It's Mrs. Winterbourne. It's the evening star. And early this had Oscar

Buzz movie, the evening star. It's that movie used people, um, that, uh, that Bebon Kidron movie used people with her and Marcello Mastriani and Kathy Bates and whatever that I believe was another Golden Globe nominee. Yes, she was nominated for Best Actress in a Musical or Comedy for Used People. But anyway, so then she's just like, then she's working again, and she's Shirley, and she's rad. And we've talked about her a few times, actually. We've talked about we've done, oh, how many Shirley's is this?

I hope it's not six. Oh, no. They can't be sick. Well, we would have missed it. Hold on. But I'm good, no, I think it's like, I don't think it's that money. It is, no. Is it six?

Fuck, it's six. Oh. We'll make it up to you, Shirley. We promise. Yeah. The Evening Star, Secret Life of Walter Middy, in her shoes. Rumor has it, Bernie. Bernie.

Now, Madam Susatka. Damn. Wow. I'm so sorry. Okay. Wait. Say those movies again. I can tell you what the, like, highest rated rated record is.

I can tell you what the longest runtime is. Evening star, Walter Middy, in her shoes, rumor has it, Bernie and now Susatka. Obviously, Susatka made the least money on the head. Bernie's the highest Rotten Tomato score. The longest is probably in her shoes.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Obviously, in her shoes, best, better Rotten Tomato score than Bernie, do we think? Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's not a truth. It's not a truth. It's not a truth. It's not a truth. I think

that Rotten Tomatoes got to be in like the 60s or something. Listen, it's not a true six-timers club without a Rex Reed quote, so we can't count this. I know, I know, I know. You know what? There are plenty of other Shirlies that we can get to, like, eventually, so it's fine. We'll do an episode on... No, in her shoes, 74%.

Well, it should have been better. We'll do an episode on Bewitched or something like that. No. What a huge... Like, just so embarrassing asking all of those people. people to do that for money. Wait, asking what people to do what for money. To star in the film, be which

in that movie. Listen, we respect and revere Nora Ephron and It's weirdly like the Nicole Kidman thing that I refuse to acknowledge. Like, I don't know why that is a bridge too far for me. That is interesting that that is the bridge too far for you.

That's wild. Listeners, I'm so sorry. That's on me. That's a Joe that's a Joe Reed fuck up right there that we forgot the six timers for Shirley Maclean. God damn it I guess we'll have to do like guarding tests Yeah, we'll just have to You know what? We'll have to

Even if it's, you know what Even if we end up doing a Patreon on something That she, you know, got You know, that got a nomination or two We'll figure it out Or entice it out to go sign up for the Patreon We will make it up to you Shirley, we promise So anyway

On to the Venice Film Festival Where Shirley wins the Volpe Cup As we mentioned when we did our Patreon episode On the Venice Film Festival the Vulpe Cup named after a Nazi. Yeah, a fashion, right, an Italian fascist, not a Nazi necessarily, but yes, a fascist.

Looking at this lineup of movies, though, it's not a lot of movies I'm familiar with, so I'm not, although I will say- Cracking my knuckles. Okay, hit me, hit me, Chris. Who else was in contention most likely for best actors? This is the most, like, tying this had Oscar Buzz movie of all time, because we'll get into the globe tie,

but she also tied Uper at Venice for, Story of Women, my favorite Upeer performance. Get the fuck out of here. That's crazy. That's crazy. What is Story of Women? Tell me about that movie. So she plays a housewife who becomes an abortionist in Nazi Occupied France.

It's also my favorite Chabrole movie. I'm often out on Chabrole that I've seen, so don't trust me. It's a masterpiece. It's an incredible movie. incredible performance people haven't seen it as much as something like the piano teacher or L

I think it's as much a quintessential Uper performance as anything else she's ever done she like hates her kids she hates her husband and I think like the movie is constantly this sounds like something well

of course Chris Fia loves this the movie is kind of constantly challenging your perceptions and conventions over this woman in these circumstances and therefore, you know, challenging maybe any internalized misogyny you might have in the audience. Incredible movie. You can watch it right now on Criterion Channel. Chris, I should also.

No, go ahead. Chris, important question for you. Who is the better piano teacher? Isabel Huper or Shirley Clay. Here we go. Let's talk about the piano. I think the piano teacher is a movie, is a movie for music people who maybe hate Madam Sussex. As, as an enterprise, as a movie.

Yes. Yeah, this is not a movie where, you know, Shirley McLean is sneaking off into porn theaters and abusing herself. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the greats. I was going to say, speaking of Ty's best actor at Venice that year also went to two people shared by Joe Montania and Don Amici for the David Mamet Dramidy Things Change, speaking of which I believe is about a couple people who work for the mob. Anyway, co-written with Shell Silverstein of all people. Speaking of Postcards from the Edge who wrote the Oscar nominated song from Postcards from the Edge, it all comes together, guys. it all comes together. Shell Silverstein, one of the first instances where I realized that somebody who had written a

children's book could also write things for adults, Shell Silverstein. My copy of Where the Sidewalk ends by Shell Silverstein is like worn to its nubs by this point. I think it's like on the bookshelf that I'm looking at right now. But it was like that book was kind of my Bible when I was a little kid. I loved those little poems that were so funny to me. Anyway, backing up Venice, Shirley. Okay, so Shirley, obviously, we'll get to the tie in a second, but I want to back into, we talked about Schlesinger, I guess. We don't really have to get into too much more.

Three best director nominations, best, obviously Midnight Cowboy wins Best Picture, famously the only X-rated movie to ever win Best Picture, certainly, because I imagine they, yeah, they discontinued that at some point. also nominated for Darling in 65 and Sunday Bloody Sunday in 1971. Yes, we talked about Sally Field and Eye for an I, a movie that I still remember Siskel and Ebert being furious about. And then the next best thing, his final movie. Ruth Parra Javala, though, this was in the middle of her two Oscar wins. Obviously, she's so well associated with Merchant and I. Ivory, a room with a view, and then she eventually wins for Howard's End.

I didn't realize she had, I mean, it makes sense that she wouldn't work all entirely exclusively with, you know, a Merchant and Ivory. But this is maybe the first movie that I've seen that is sort of her outside of that. Certainly for me. At some point, she just, like, doesn't really work with anybody else, right? Like, this is maybe her final movie? No, it's a select. I'm looking at her selected filmography. I'm sure there's, like, more of a complete filmography.

Anyway, she's awesome. She's like, she's one of the, she's like, she's, you know, one of those screenwriters who has a, one of those screenwriters who's not really known as a director who still is like a boldface name among screenwriters. I was also about to be like, Joe, no, we've done. a Ruth Powerd-Jewala movie that's not a Merchant Ivory forgetting that La Divorce is a merchant-Irish. It sure as fuck is. Yes, it absolutely is.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this might be, wait a second. Was the Soldier's Daughter Never Cry's Merchant Ivory? It was. Or at least was James Ivory. Yeah, Madam Susatka is the last movie on her IMDB

that is not Merchant or Ivory. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. Anyway, yeah, I like this screenplay a lot. Obviously, it's an adaptation, which he did a lot in her career. But I think there's some really good dialogue in this.

How effective do you feel like making the Twiggy stuff? We talked about Dane Peggy Ashcroft. The Twiggy stuff being like a subplot that, you know, sort of wavers in its importance to me. How effective? or ineffective, do you think is that that is? I mean, it feels like most, when you look at it having seen the whole movie, it feels like, oh, it's just a plot reason to connect Manick with her boyfriend so that he can

bring Manick on for this culminating festival concert at the end. But I do like that, like, in addition, like, yes, Manick's not the title character, but he has as much screen time as Shirley Maclean, if not maybe more. And it is still a coming of age movie for him. and having this, like, weird little kind of flirty moments with Twiggy, I think are, like, key to him also sort of feeling like he's growing up, even if he's not growing up. It's the non-musicals up.

How old is she supposed to be? No, like, no age discourse. I think she's almost 40 when the movie gets made. I think she's just, like, messing around with him and having a laugh. And he is, you know, obviously. Listen, gay guys have always needed their 40-year-old pop girls. Exactly. 1888 is no different.

Twiggy, obviously, a pop star from sort of like a novelty pop star a little bit from the late 60s. I'm glad we're getting into this because one of the notes I took was E-L-I-5 Twiggy for me. Wait, what is E-L-I-5? Explain like I'm five. Oh. I mean, Twiggy's to serve with love, right? That's no. That's Lulu.

It's also, like, the definitive, like, individual for a whole fashion movement. It's just, I think when we think of, like, the mod style. There's an entire Austin Powers movie based on the Twiggy aesthetic. Yeah, like, she, when you think of that aesthetic, she is the person that comes into your mind. Not even the first, you know, she's so, like, it's so that. And she was also a pop star, too. Didn't she do a, much like Kylie Minogue, didn't she do a locomotion?

Listen, on a long enough timeline, any blonde with an accent is going to do a locomotion in the music business. So she has two. Get on it. Tate McRae, McRae or whoever you are. One of those with, Tate McRae, Addison Ray, whoever the fuck, who gives a shit. She has two Golden Globe Awards, which is,

wait, now I got to figure out which. She got it for the Ken Russell, The Boyfriend, right? Like, Best New Star. Well, yeah. Golden Globes getting rid of Most Promising Newcomer is, yeah, the boyfriend, she wins not only Best Newcomer. Or, sorry, Most Promising Newcomer. She wins Best Actress in a Comedy or Musical for Ken Russell's The Boyfriend. A movie I have not seen, but sounds pretty interesting if Twiggy's winning awards for it.

So, yeah, who would, who would, we compare Twiggy to in like a semi-modern is she the Ariana Grande and Wicked of? No. Because Ariana Grande is known for singing. And also has a much, much bigger pop career, obviously.

Just go through the list of like stunt casts for Roxy Heart in the last 10 years and that's probably someone on that list is probably your Twiggy. Wait, I'm going to post a photo of her from Twiggy did one thing. and then got so famous from that

that Twiggy did a bunch of other things because she was just so famous. That's why I got to Padmalakshmi. I'm like, well, Padmolakshmi, like, has recipes and does stand-up comedy now. I just posted a link to the IMD photo of Twiggy from 1981's Pygmalion, where she's essentially doing, obviously,

Pygmalion that my fair lady antecedent. So she's in, like, Eliza, Eliza do little drag in that. Yeah, it's, she's sort of, she's somebody who is representative of an era, right? It's, she's very sort of like, she is like, set her in something and it's just like, oh, remember swinging 60s London? Like, that's sort of, um, the, the shorthand.

Um, I, of course, remember her specifically from, I believe she spent, three seasons, cycles, sorry, as the Janice Dickinson replacement on America's Next Top Model on the panel for America's Next Top Model after Tyra grew tired of Janice Dickinson being an open revolt against her for just a cycle upon cycle. Looks like it was five cycles for dang. Wow. Okay. And then Pauline Aporescova. Yeah, Paulina Porzcova is brought in after that. another person who eventually was an open revolt against Tyro Banks. Twiggy, I guess, towed the line a little bit, but I remember Twiggy being around for, like, the season that Nicole won, or the season that, like, well, you, Chris, you watched Top Model, right?

You're conversant in Top Model. Of course, and I certainly watched the Twiggy seasons. Twiggy was actually a good judge, too. Like, she said things that were critiquing, but also helpful. She's the type of judge that it's like even

if you're complimenting the contestants of a show it was in a way that could still help them improve so it was like they learned something through what they did well. The judges on America's

next top model were not particularly known for being very helpful. Nigel Barker was always just like does this photograph make me want to have sex with you? And, like, Tyra was off on her own little planet. And Janice Dickinson, much as I loved her, was just like a monster.

Was just absolutely, was fickle, was mean, would say, like, really, like, half of her critiques are like, this photo makes it look like you have a penis, like, all of that sort of stuff. And it's just like. Janus is a monster. But, like, in a way that made her so compelling to watch. And because she was so unconcerned with kowtowing to Tyra, even though Tyra, like, was, you know, the boss of everything was so funny to me. And that she would always be like, first, I'm the first supermodel, whatever. And then Tyra would be like. And this is the thing that we talk about with Top Model now that, you know, it's, like, people would be aghast if they sat down and, like, took a list of all of the things.

that are admonishable about it. They did a... Good luck with that. You'll run out of paper in two episodes. They did a, like... You know how ABC would do these, like, extended 2020 episodes a few years ago where they would just put them on Hulu, and it would be like, Erica Jane, behind the housewife or whatever? And they did one that was, like, America's Next Top Model X number of years later, and it was just like this, you know, sort of retrospective and kind of recrimination for like what America's Next Top Model did.

And I'm like, y'all, this is the most obvious shit ever. Like, obviously America's Next Top Model has not aged well. It was an era of reality TV where shit was just a lot meaner. And like, you know, at that time, you know, this is the era of the Swan. And the Swan was like a bridge too far. And it's like, the Swan is like child's play compared to Next Top Model, like, in terms of human cruelty happening at every moment. America's next top model doing the photo shoot where they were all murder victims and Tyra's

like, you're not quite looking sexy enough in this photo. It's just like, that's what I'm talking about. We used to talking, talk about Madam Susatka level like artists need to be tougher. Like, fucking reality TV viewers need to toughen up Buttercup. Like, watch some old top model. Figure it out. Twiggy. Do you ever climb a tree?

Figgy. Stop it. What's your favorite kind of pudding? Tom Hanks in Biggie. Do you ever go to Coney Island? Shut the fuck up. I'm stopping this right now. I'm stopping this.

Okay, so let's make it to the Golden Games. Giggy. Do you ever get with it? Sorry. Oh, Wiggy. What's your favorite recent Nicole Kidman performance? Okay, so the first. 46 annual golden globes of a weird thing in general one thing i learned by by doing my research

for this episode did you know that dangerous liaisons was nominated for zero golden globes this it sure was i think that movie was a it was a very very late arrival yeah i forget specifically if it was like too late for the globes voters to even see the movie it's the only explanation i can think of because like they did not and then And, like, it gets seven Oscar nominations. And it also feels like it's right up the alley of the Golden Globes. So, like, that's... So there's no Glenn Close in this best actress in a drama.

Also, the two supporting actor and actress winners from the Oscars that year, neither one of them are nominated at the Golden Globes. Gina Davis for The Accidental Tourist, not nominated in supporting actor. Kevin Klein is not nominated for a fish called Wanda, although John Cleese and Jamie Lee Curtis are in lead actor and actress in a comedy. Anyway, so your nominees in Best Actress in a Drama, as read by Michael Douglas and Aunt Archer, who are a year removed from Fatal Attraction, Christine Lottie for Running on Empty, which is the Sydney Lumette movie with her and River Phoenix. Meryl Streep for, as Michael Douglas correctly asserts, A Cry on the Dark, not fucking evil angels. Australian lunatics.

Like, stop it. A Cry in the Dark is an objectively better title than evil angels. Shut the fuck up. Jody Foster and the accused. Sigourney Weaver in Gorillas in the Mist, which they announced as Gorillaz in the Mist, like The Story of Diane Fossy or something. Yeah, it had a subtitle, right? It's the only time I've ever seen that movie as having a subtitle is when it is

announced in that particular context in that award show. But anyway. And then Shirley MacLean and Madam Suzatska, who is what? Not even there. Susatka's nominated one other category. It's nominated in

original score. Gerald Gourier's original score. Which makes no goddamn sense. I'm sorry. Right. I'm giving Taylor Taylor Cole go off about this. It's all classical music needle drops, many of which I love, and I'm happy to hear in this movie. Watching this movie made me miss studying classical piano to the degree to which I used to study it.

But the one, like, actual original score moment that even sticks out is near the beginning when Manick is roller skating. He has just left the group of children that are, like, playing a song on a boombox that is not Herbie Hancock's rocket, but it might as well be. But it's not not that right. Also, not that either. But then he's going down, and it is the most, like, I, it is the late 1980s now. I can score an entire movie on my computer and can have synthesized obo sounds and string sounds. And it was just the cheapest crap I've ever heard. And like, if you want to get confused enough Globes voters to give essentially a jukebox score of classical piano hits and call that an original score and honor it for that, great.

It's worth honoring. but in original score like this made me matter than Wicked getting a best original score nomination at the Oscars this past year, which also makes no goddamn sense. Go off. Well, okay, so this is the thing about that. Wicked's a great comparison point because like there is a certain amount of percentage of music score that has to be featured in the like total music of the movie for it to be eligible for the Oscars now. So it's like, Madam Sussatka would not be eligible for original score by today's standards. Wicked gets it for like, all respect to this composer, who is not Stephen Schwartz. It's all like underscoring original music throughout.

It depends on voters. That is not of the original Schwartz score. So it's like all under dialogue or it's, you know, maybe it's the music that's in the like, 17 breaks that defying gravity takes. But to me, it's like, if someone does a basically buy-the-book adaptation of Hamlet, are we going to give that a best adapted screenplay nomination because Hamlet's a good play? I know we have, but we shouldn't. But this is why it's incumbent upon the Academy to step in there because the alternative is then you wait for people to look at the ballot and then they're looking at that and go, oh, wicked.

I like that movie. Oh, Wicked has good music. Interesting that it's nominated in original score, I can either, A, go out on my own and figure out how much of this score was original versus adapted, or B, just be like, I'm lazy. I'm just like, you know what I mean? I like the movie in that. I assume if it's nominated for original score, there's enough original score, check. And the, the, whatever, choke point needs to be a lot sooner. in the process of that. But anyway,

the award went to the brutalist, everything worked out the way it should have. Exactly, exactly. Well, Challenger's wasn't nominated. Well, yes, also that was. Maurice, is it Jarre or Jarre? I thought it was Jure. There is, I'm not seeing an accent mark

even though it probably should, but anyway, Maurice Juree wins for Gorill's in the midst, the mid, I keep saying Midsst, like she's in the midst of guerrilla. Wow. Wow, wow. Joe hates animals so much.

He's like, gorillas are mid. No, I keep saying like she's in the midst of gorillas, you know what I mean? Which is like, you know, that's a double title, double meaning. John Williams is nominated for the accidental. In the midst of the gorillas. John Williams for the accidental tours, Peter Gabriel's nomination for The Last Temptation of Christ, which I think is kind of rad. And then Robert Redford was on the campaign trail for the Malagro Beanfield War. and got one nomination for the score.

Movies that exist as titles, the Milagra Beanfield. One million percent, the Milagra Beanfield War. Okay, Milagra Beanfield War is also a movie that exists only as a poster. The guy kicking up his heels. The title is one thing, and then the separate in the poster is another. I think it qualifies as both. No, I think that's probably true. And that wins the Oscar, is Milagra Beanfield War.

Phenomenal. And then original song that year, I think, is also kind of well because this is another tie. This is the year of ties. I'm surprised that H.W. Bush and Dukakis didn't tie at the election because 1988 is the year of ties. Are you sure? Phil Collins, Two Hearts from Buster, a movie we all remember incredibly well. Phil Collins' Buster. Oh, he stars in it as well. Good Lord.

Yes. Yes. No, there was because the soundtrack for this, it was two hearts, but there was also a, What was his ballad from that? His ballad from that was a groovy kind of love, which I remember, like, VH1, imagine. VH1 and Phil Collins were in like a death pact. Like they were, none could exist without the other. And so I watched that music video a lot, and it was just scenes from Buster. It's the only thing I've ever seen of Buster. And then Ties, Carly Simons let the river run from Working Girl, which is the one that like.

What are you doing voting for any? Anything other than let the river run? What is wrong with you, people? Well, can I tell you the other nominees, which are cooler than what the Oscars nominated? They nominated Kokomo from Cocktail, which was a hit, which was a big, big, big hit that year for the Beach Boys. Every time I'm on this show now, we have to reference Kokomo because I was here for love and mercy last time. That's true. Taylor Cole, your thoughts on Kokomo.

Your thoughts on John Stamos as being an adjunct member of the Beach Boys and also Kokomo. a jam but not a beach boy song that's my take on well there you go if it's not brian wills yeah brian well doesn't count it's not the beach boys uh billy joles why should i worry from oliver and company hell yeah a fucking banger oliver and company is good and the oscars should hang their heads in shame that they did not nominate this what the fuck was their problem and and this does predate river of dreams and the verse for why should i worry is the same group as river of dreams so anytime i hear in the middle of the night i'm only thinking about oliver and company. And I also feel like this was a year that like the Oscars only nominated three songs. I think Let the River Run maybe only beat two competing songs. I could be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. But then your fifth Golden Globe nominee is a song called Twins from the movie Twins that I simply must hear at some point. Like I simply, maybe I'll throw that into into the episode. Title theme song performed by Philip Bailey and Little Richard reached number 82 on the Billboard Hot 100. Wow.

Can I tell you, can I read you the soundtrack listing for twins, at least the first two tracks? Title theme song performed by Philip Bailey and Little Richard. Song number two, yakety sacks performed by two live crew with the coasters. What the fuck? Yes, yes, yes, get two live crew on the Oscar. Doing yackety sacks. How does that even, what does that even mean? That's the craziest fucking thing I've ever heard.

All right. And then Philip Bailey versus Phil Collins in this category, an easy lover showdown. Yes. See, Taylor, this is why we have you on. In her holding her Oscar in her Oscar wedding dress, it is a choice. This is

the only criticism I will have of Carly Simon. The Let the River Run music video, by the way, is one of those music videos they used to do in the 80s where they would, the stars of the movie were under contract to show up in the video. But they would film it months later, so

like they are absolutely not in character and um wrong haircuts yes it's incredible this is why the save me music video is so great because they just filmed it while they were filming magnolia they just bringing me man in for a day and they were just like and then paul thomas and anders is like we'll just put in the movie like we'll just make it part of the movie yeah it's what three hours and 10 minutes okay like go for it yeah absolutely uh so anyway the river run was nominated against two hearts from buster and calling you from West Germany's Baghdad Cafe. Can I tell you the story about calling you from Baghdad Cafe?

Celine Dion does a cover of that song eventually. And then that cover is the song that is used for one of the, if not the, most well-known so-you-can-dance routine of all time. Which, if you've ever seen Travis Wall doing this, like, park bench routine with his cousin Heidi because they're, no, with Benji Swimmer's cousin Heidi, never mind. It's so good. And it's this song that forever I was just like, oh, Celine Dion did a song called Calling

You. And like, no, I found out later. It was an Oscar-nominated song from a movie called Baghdad Cafe. So anyway. Wow, CCH Pounder is in this movie and it's set in the desert. Obviously two things I love. So other things that are interesting about this, a golden globe. Clint Eastwood wins best director for Byrd is not nominated.

Best screenplay is running on empty, written by Naomi Foner, who is, of course, mother to Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal. And what else? Melanie Griffith wins. Tom Hanks wins for Big. They're both Oscar-nominated. Rain Man and Working Girl are your drama and comedy winners. But, like, it's a really interesting Golden Globes, I think, kind of top. up to bottom, and made all the more, like, the biggest sort of historical footnote. So

Michael Douglas and Anne Archer, they read out the nominations, and then the funniest thing to me is they open the envelope, and Michael Douglas has to, like, fully open the envelope. Like, it's one of those things that's, like, it's a five-fold thing that I'll meet from the middle. And he's like, we're unfolding all the, like, all of the winners are written, like, edge to edge on this thing. And he, of course, is like, whoa, like, we have a three-way tie. And of course, Again, sorry. I'll just say, given the ties that we saw here and at the Venice Film Festival, that did inspire me to create a game for the two of you to play for this episode.

Ties, ties, ties, ties, ties. I mean, this, no, this is, this week, can we say that this is the Shirley Maclean Sixthamers Club, even though it is not about. Yeah, this will take place for Shirley. All right. I'm happy to make that happen. All right. Thank you for saving our bacon.

The name of this game is the ties that bind. Here's how it's going to go. One in time back and forth. I'm going to read you a mashed up plot description of two movies that tied in some category at some award show. You can earn up to three points per question. If you can name both movies, that is one point. If you can name the category in which they tied, that is one point. If you can name the awards body that awarded that tie, that is one point.

So any, so you get up to three points for any of the things. So what is the information that you're giving? I am giving you a mashed-up plot description of two movies. Oh, okay. All right, all right. As an example, we'll do an example one. Fannie Bryce attempts to establish a line of royal succession in 12th century England. You would get one point. Funny girl, a lion and winter best actress, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

That would get you all three points because you got to get both movies together for that first point. All right, the rules are clear. Joe, pick a number from one to a million. Oh, 900,000. Chris, same prompt. One. One, the answer is one. So, Chris, you will get to go first.

There we go. I knew the answer is going to be one or a million. And I was just like, all right, well. Your first prompt is James Bond hunts down Osama bin Laden. Do we just chime in? Yeah, so the first one is just for you. Oh, right.

This is just for me. Okay, this is Skyfall and Zero Dark 30. That's correct. tied at the, no, they tied at Bafta, that is, for best sound. Can I steal? More specific on the little academy? Best sound effects editing.

I'll give you Best Sound Editing, but they tied at the Academy Awards. So two points for Chris. See, I thought that that was a different movie that I am not going to say, the most recent because it'll be. Mark Wahlberg announced the, uh, That's right.

The tie. Great moments in awards history with Mark Wahlberg. That and women are talking. I guess I misremember the movie that tied with zero dark clarity. All right. Next up, we are to Joe. Joe, a Chicago art dealer travels to North Carolina to meet her new husband's family, only to find that he's sneaking away to go fishing with his cowboy buddy at their old sheep herding spot.

Okay. So the second one is Brokeback Mountain. Could you read me the thing again? A Chicago art dealer travels to North Carolina. North Carolina to meet her new husband's family. All right. I'm going to guess that this is best-supporting actress tie between Brokeback Mountain, Michelle Williams, and Junebug Amy Adams.

You've got two of the points there. What awards body awarded this tie? So not the Oscars, not the Golden Globes, not the SAG awards. unsure about BFTA, unsure about critics' choice, and I don't think it was the indie spirit. So I'm going to say, critics' choice. Critics' choice is correct, a clean sweep on your first question, Joe. All right, all right. Next for Chris, a Texas set neo-noir filled with murder, illicit affairs, and a botched kidnapping ends with a madcap, bizarre, all-night odyssey through New York City.

Oh, wow. Um, okay. Ooh, that's harder. Texas Neo-Nuara automatically makes me think no country for old men. So if that's the one, then 07, what is an all-night madcap through New York City? That would have also conceivably tied

with no country for old men. Can I get the New York City bio again? A madcap bizarre all-night odyssey. through New York City. Okay. No country may not be the direction you want to go in. Oh, okay.

Can I get the Texas? A Texas set Neo-Noir filled with murder, illicit affairs, and a botched kidnapping. Oh, okay. Oh, Raising Arizona. No.

I think I'm going to get like nothing here. What's an all-night New York City movie? After Hours. Ooh, it's after hours and blood simple. Correct for one. You got there.

They both would have tied at the Independent Spirit Awards. Correct for two in the category of. Oh, God. Was it Best Director or was it their best picture? I thought Best Picture was just after hours. So I'll say Best Director. Best Director is correct. You got it.

You really worked that out. I was like, I said two different Coen Brothers movies. I was going to say. And you said Raising Arizona... It's almost as if they have a running theme. You said Raising Arizona, knowing that it was Texas, too, and I could see your brain being like, no, Arizona. That was really well done.

Just because something's set in Texas doesn't mean you can't name a baby. It's not a Coens I love, so I don't often revisit that movie. Which one? Raising Arizona or Blood Simple. Raising Arizona. I know that this is just me explaining that I'm not stupid. No, you got it. You figured it out. You worked it out.

Well, Raising Arizona is, of course, in my favorite category of movie of Francis McDormand, a gerund, and a U.S. state. Yes. Bad in Mississippi burning. And three billboards outside Abing, Missouri. I guess—abing is not really a jarring, but it does end in I-N-G. You can ebb and flow, so you can be at B. All right, back to Joe. A woman travels to Stockholm to see her husband win the Nobel Prize and wonders why he looks so good in those Jules.

jeans and why he comes around here with an ass like that. God damn it. This is so cheesy. So this is the wife and a star is born tying at, this is for best actress, this is Glenn Close and Lady Gaga, and they tied at the, was it the SAG Awards? I feel like that was also Critics' choice. Critics choice is correct. Oh, excuse.

Yeah, Critics choice is correct. So Joe's got six. Chris has got five. All right. Next to Chris, after struggling with retirement from life as an insurance actuary, a man fosters a Tanzanian boy, opens a meat shop, and wages war against other criminal factions in the five points neighborhood. Wow. Okay.

So the departed tying with. Can I get that whole thing again? After struggling with retirement from life as an insurance actuary, a man fosters a Tanzanian boy, opens a meat shop, and wages war against other criminal factions in the Five Points neighborhood. Okay, five points is actually Gangs of New York, which means I'm looking for 02. O2, where is someone fostering a Tanzanian boy? struggling with retirement from life as an insurance actuary. So an older man fosters someone from Tanzan. Oh, it's about Schmidt.

Yes, about Schmidt and games in York. This is best actor at Critics' Choice. Yes, another critic's choice, up to eight points for Chris. Nice. Next to Joe. As the final plague upon the Pharaoh, Moses hires a bunch of warrior insects who turn out to be circus performers. Um, all right.

All right. So a bunch of warrior insects who turn out to be circus performers. So here's the thing is. Are we doing still a point? we're not. No, no stealing. Okay. Here's my problem is now I'm down a hole and can't crawl out of it because all I can think of is the Prince of Egypt, a bug's life,

and ants all existing in 1998. And now I'm like, did either one of those ant movies have warrior insects that were circus performers? And if not, then I'm just completely on the wrong path. And it's like the Ten Commandments with like the greatest show on earth. But did that have insects? Who are also warriors?

And it's like, and I guess I can't get confirmation on like one of the movies, right? Like I got to like make my- Before I'll confirm whether you got it or not. I'm going to guess that it's the Prince of Egypt and a bug's life. That is correct. You did get the right combo there. Okay. Okay. So that would be best animated feature.

And they did not have that at the Oscars yet. Was this just at the annies? That's my guess. No, it's another Critics Choice Awards. Motherfucker. I literally almost said, like, who's craven enough to keep giving away these ties? Probably the Critics' Choice Awards. Damn it. Okay, so I got two?

Yes, you got two there. It is eight to eight. Oh, boy. All right. One question left for each of you. We're coming in. This is all going to come down to this. Oh, boy. An alcoholic country singer turns his life around

via being a personal assistant and fashion consultant to a finicky Shakespearean actor. Oh. Alcoholic country singer is making me think Crazy Heart. Finicky Shakespearean actor. Okay, so Crazy Heart. When can I place it? That would be the...

So that's 2010. Maybe it's not even crazy hard. It could be country strong. Is it country strong and... I'm just going to go all out. Is it country strong and my week with Maryland? I love that guess. I love that you are so far from it, but it's wonderful.

The logic is there. Amazing guess. No, in this case, I'm going to tell you the movies and then see if you can get the other two points. Wait, can I get the steel just because I do know it? For no point. For no point, sure. Yeah, one other two movies. Can I just get a show off point?

Sorry. They're the best points. This is Robert Duval and Tom Courtney for Tender Mercies and the Dresser. Yes. Tying Best Actor at the Globes. It's the Globes, right? Yep. Yeah.

All right. All right, Joe, you have to get some amount. of points here. I've got to get something right here. Here we go. Okay. A struggling male actor presenting as a woman to get more parts has opened up his life by meeting a working class hairdresser and studying literature

at the college level. Okay. So one of them's Tutsi. Working class hairdresser. So this is 1982. Working class. Can I get the second half of that again? by meeting a working-class hairdresser

and studying literature at the college level. Studying literature. Oh. Is this? Ugh. No, it's not educating Rita. That's the Shirley Maclean year. Which is the year after.

I'm going to... Okay. I'm going to just I could really zero out on this the problem is because if I don't get the other movie I'm not going to get the category wait

working class hairdresser 82 is this 82 is Sophie's choice an actress so an actor it's Gandhi

so Gandhi like Ben Kingsley's not doesn't Gandhi doesn't fall famously bald does not need a working class

hairdresser so I don't think it's best actor so I'm going to say best picture musical or comedy that is incorrect fuck

Joe I'm so glad you said educating Rita because it is educating Rita no because it's at the BFTAs, which have their weird cutoffs for what years

movies were released in each play. So it is Dustin Hoffman and Michael Cain tied for best actor. Literally hoisted by my own Patard. I knew too much. I knew too much. That's so fucking perfect. Amazing. Amazing.

Chris, well done. And I intentionally didn't make a tiebreaker, hoping this would end in a tie appropriate for this game. So well done to both. What a good game. Taylor, the golf club. Taylor, you also made it hard.

and I think you deserve commendation for that because I appreciate it being hard. Me too. Anytime. That's so funny. Okay, so back to that Golden Globes for a second, though, because again, Shirley's not there. Jody Foster and Diane Fosse and Sigourney Weaver go up. Sigourney has already won, by the way. She's already one supporting actress for Working Girl by this point.

This is her second time up. The height differential between Sigourney Weaver and Jody Foster is hilarious. Sigourney just towers over, Jody, at this point. And then, Chris, I'm going to have you give us Sigourney's final line of her acceptance speech. I'm making Bear Week jokes all acceptance speech. She's like, I'm so happy for Gorillans in the Mist. Me, not at a circuit party, but seeing that there's a circuit party. Most of all, I want to thank the gorillas, me at Bear Week.

Most of all I want to thank the guerrillas. And then she's like, the guerrillas probably wouldn't care about this because they wouldn't be able to eat it or make a nest out of it. She's talking about her trophy. And she's like, Sigourney, you've maybe had enough. Like, maybe it's time to go sit down. I also want to say that Michael Douglas pronounces it as Madam Suzuki when he reads the winners. Also funny because how many times in the movie does Shirley McLean like reassert how to pronounce Zazka? I guess he didn't watch.

But no, Madam Sizuka is now how I will refer to this always. Well, there's also a instrumental music teaching method called the Suzuki method, which actually has created. It's Japanese. It's created by Shinichi Suzuki, and I studied Suzuki piano for the first big chunk of my learning. And there's a lot of stuff that, not all, but in terms of Sousazka's sort of method and philosophy, that fits into the Suzuki method. It's about practicing your techniques while writing. I'm a motorcycle kind of a thing. Kind of. It is very much about like finding the sort of like beauty in music even from like the

earliest times. Like it's not so much about like reading notes and being super music literate. It's really a lot about listening and a lot about the thing that it doesn't have in common with Zuzazka is it very much about community and that you want to have like public performance as often as possible even at the earliest stages. So my teacher like like you know with band or orchestra, if you're playing violin or flas. or whatever, you go and you sit with other kids and you make friends. If you're a pianist and you're learning, you don't really have opportunities

for that. So my teacher had monthly piano parties. She called them, not recitals. She very pointedly did not call them recitals, where all of her students would come and just do whatever they were working on. Sometimes it was, you only play... That's cool. You only play half a piece, like, because it's just whatever you had ready to go.

So that was always a great way to, like, meet other pianists and make some other friends through piano. So I feel like that's a thing where my teacher definitely differed from Susatzka in ways that I think would have benefited Monak to have more performance experience early on. Well, but also, like, the thing about Susatzka's philosophies is this idea that, like, so many would-be prodigies get burned out by other people in their lives, pushing them to the forefront too soon, and they're not ready for it. and they get kind of broken by, you know, the expectation or their own sort of, you know, imperfections at that point.

So I do like the idea that, like, she, I mean, she's, you know, resistant to having him perform it anyway. But I feel like a sort of less formalized version of, you know, playing for other people might have appeal to her maybe a little bit more. But at the same time when she, you know, when Manick makes his big mistake in the final performance, he skips the measures, her reaction is like she could have very much been on I told you so thing and sort of been validated. But she chooses to have this super growth mindset response. It's like, oh, we'll get back at it. We'll practice. We'll make it better going from there, which is like exactly what you want out of any music teacher to sort of lower the stakes whenever possible to make you feel like they're on this sort of trajectory of growth and improvement rather than. and just purely measuring the milestone.

So that's, I think, and I don't think we would have necessarily expected that response from her. But during the moment where she is watching Manick and that performance, like, it's such a great face performance from Shirley MacLean when she's just watching him and she's not saying a word because she's in a concert, but you can tell exactly what's going through her head. And when she gives this sort of unexpected response, you can tell that she's been moved by his playing and her relationship with him, which makes it sort of all the whole more heartbreaking when he decides to move on at the end, even though you know. that is kind of what's best for him at this stage of his career. It's what's best for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. It puts Shirley in all those montages of people coming to realizations while watching opera or whatever is, you know, it's her,

it's Anna Pacquin, it's Nicole Kidman, and various other things. Wait, there's one other thing about the Golden Globes. Oh, so the Golden Globes, right? So Shirley McLean wins in the three-way tie. She is the only person, the only woman, to win best actress in a drama at the Golden Globes and not go on to an Oscar nomination. The only time that's ever happened.

It's happened at least a couple times with Best Actor in a Drama, but not for a long time. And I want to see, we'll do a little mini trivia. The last time this happened for Best Actor in a Drama, it was an actor from a movie based on a very famous novel co-starring a best actress Oscar winner from right around that time

it was either just before or just after or maybe even that year I only got nothing Can we get like a decade of when this transpired of when this Golden Globe wouldn't happen?

Is it how far back Yes, it'll yeah it sort of goes a one way to give me away. It's the 1960s. Oh. Okay. Based on a novel. Based on a very sort of famous and substantial novel. Was the actress nominated for this?

I'm going to double check, but I believe yes. This isn't like Omar Sharif and Dr. Javago? It is, in fact, Omar Sharif and Dr. Chivago. Well done, Taylor. Yeah. I would have assumed it was Oscar nominated. That's wild. I would have as well. So hold on a second. So 1965. This is 1965 Oscars. Let's see. Dr. Chavago is nominated for Picture and Director, David Lean. That is the year that Julie Christie wins for Darling. So she is busy being nominated for Darling instead of Dr. Chavago. The nominees for Best Actor. That's the year Lee Marvin wins for Cat Ballou. Also.

So Richard Burton, the spy who came in from the cold, Lawrence Olivier and Othello, Rod Steiger in the pawnbroker, and Oscar Werner in Ship of Fools. Oscar Werner and Ship of Fools. No room for iconic Omar Sharif. Wow. Alas. Okay. What else? What else do we have?

We talked about... Well, I mean, just to like not completely walk away from the... Like, are we... Do we essentially feel that her not appearing at that ceremony? probably kept her out of an Oscar nomination. I'm not so sure because this is a really stacked lineup. Well, especially when you consider that Glenn Close is not nominated for the globe because of whatever the reason for dangerously is on. So you throw her in here.

Melanie Griffith for Working Girl wins the Globe for comedy and is not going to miss. Jody Foster and Sigourney Weaver are both obviously more formidable contenders from that triptych who won the Globes. Sogorney is like, that's her year. She's, you know, she's getting working girl that year. Like, she's such a big sort of story of that year. And then the accused, I mean, Jody Foster's also, I think they're both sort of better narratives, right? Like, Jody Foster is the sort of the little girl raised by Hollywood, all the stuff about

John Hinkley. Like, there's just a lot of narrative there for Jody for winning for the accused. We've sort of, we talk a lot about how, like, hindsight being 2020, knowing that Jody would win again so soon that if this is the year you could go back in time and give Glenn Close an Oscar, this would maybe be the one to do it. And then we save ourselves all the heartache. And then Meryl's nominated for a cry in the dark. And of course, like, it's very easy to just be like, oh, wrote Meryl Streep nomination. She's so good. One can best actress for that movie.

She's so good in that movie. Like, this is the famous sort of the dingo. The dingo took my baby. The line is not the dingo ate my baby. That's one of the more famous sort of like, you know, misremembered quotes or whatever. Because of Elaine Venice, mostly. Yes. Honestly, yes.

That's why I think of it as maybe the dingo ate your baby. Maybe the dingo ate your baby. Yes. Completely. And that, yeah, so, yeah, that's another, like, again. It's not an easy lineup to crack. It isn't. It definitely isn't.

Though I do think if we had. a three-way tie at any televised award show in a modern era, it would burn that section of the internet down. Oh, my God. It's like a modern-day three-way tie? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. There's more losers than winners, which is...

No, sorry, there's more winners than losers. There's more winners than losers, which is... Well, that's why it seems so pointed. Sigourney almost does that... She's like, in my mind, there are five winners for this category. And she like, she almost names them by name. And I was like, oh, I was so tense because I was like, don't because then the camera's going to cut to poor Christine Lottie in that crowd.

Like, Meryl's already won. So Meryl's like, could give a shit. But like, they're going to cut to Christine Lottie. And Christine Lottie is just going to be either heartbroken or pissed. This is my feeling about the, about what's shitty about this three-way tie. Is Christine Lottie? Because Christine Lottie, like, if she was in that three-way tie, I more so wonder if she could have pushed through than

Shirley McLean. Because River Phoenix is getting nominated for running on empty that year. Wins. It had won the Golden Globe for screenplay, so it then gets, yes, Naomi Phoner does get the nomination for screenplay. Loses to Rain Man. It's a really good

movie. I've never seen it. It's going on my list. I, of course, you know, love any, you know, River Phoenix performance. Yeah, I think you're probably, that's a That's an interesting angle on. And obviously, then she would have also been in the room. So then you would have gotten three, three, three speeches for one.

Maybe she's even medium height between Chodi Foster and Sigourney Weaver. Even better. And so then Christine Lottie then gets her big Golden Globe moment, almost a full decade later, when she wins Best Actress in a television drama for Chicago Hope and makes her grand entrance after making the whole room wait for it because she was in the bathroom. one of my favorite Golden Globe moments of all time. Because it's Michael J. Fox is presenting with, I can't remember who, whoever he's presenting with

sort of like steps to the back. And like Michael J. Fox is just, maybe it's just him. And he goes, Christine, we're all waiting. And then I think someone from the floor is like, she's in the bathroom. And everybody laughs as if it's a joke. And then Robin Williams runs up to the stage. And like, again, a hero moment for Robert.

in Williams for knowing that like we need somebody to fill time and he's like cracks knuckles like I'm your man um so he just goes up and he just starts like doing voices and it's literally it's like the the guy from mrs doubtfire it's just sort of like he's running through the cavalcade of you know um one of my favorite scenes from mrs doubtfire truly before we wrap up can we talk about the letterman oh yes it's a gag it's a gag she effectively tells david that they should give him a lobotomy on television. So this is late night with David Letterman era. This is around sort of the time that that famous share interview,

not like it's within probably a few years of that famous share interview where she comes on and he's like, I heard you didn't want to do the show. And she's like, yeah, because I think you're an asshole. And it's one of those interviews that is less tense than its reputation because you can tell they both like have their guard up but they also like are kind of appreciating you know the the battle in this one Dave has just had blood drawn like that was the gag like the gag right is that like he had lying down on the desk he's he's had blood drawn and so um he's kind of feisty from the break and you can tell he just has no

this is when Shirley was very, very very much, like the first thing you think of when you think of Shirley Maclean is like transcendental metaphysics previous past lives. Not an Oscar, but Ubu uh, healing. Well, she had written at least

one book. She had written, I believe, like multiple books about this. So like it's, and she had not acted for four years. So it is kind of the thing that she's maybe, you know, most recently known for. So, and you can tell Dave, thinks this is like actor bullshit. He already like

has like very thin patience for actors as it is. Psychic acupuncture where she experienced like deja vu memories from past lives. But the best thing is he's like so like and he immediately starts into like you know the past lives

and like you say you've been you know six people before and he's you know poking at her and she is like what? And she's like and then she finally takes the list from him because he's got him listed down on a piece of paper. And she's like, oh, this is from a book that I did. She's just like, and then she starts getting on him about like, well, you have to read the whole book.

And he's like, well, listen, I've just had blood drawn. So, you know, maybe I'm not fully. And she's like, they should have cut into your brain. Jeez. That's great. And she's like, she's pissed, but she's trying to cover it. And he's pissed. And he's trying to lean into like his like, ain't I a little stinker thing?

And they're just doing battle. And it's tense. And it makes me want to turn away, but, like, it is one of those very, like, they are doing battle right there on national... Truly would never happen today. No, absolutely not. All right, I have here a list of things you've been in other lives.

How many other lives have you had? Who knows? I don't know. However many you want. However many you want to remember. We have here six. You've been a jester. Is that true? Six lives. That's what it says here.

Past lives, right here. Well, you don't want to know what they say backstage. What was the question? Past lives. Now, you were a jester. Oh You were You were a jester

You were a jester Princess of the Elephants Oh, you're talking about a book that I wrote before Yeah Now are these in fact your past lives Well look I had a lot of recollections When I was doing psychic acupuncture Which was amazing

What is psychic acupuncture? Okay, sit back I have to give you a little lesson Is this going to be another medical procedure here Do you have to have a nurse standing by for this as well? They should have taken it out of your brain. Mm. Um...

I also wrote down this piece of IMDB trivia. Now, it's IMDV trivia, so like dollars to donuts, it's just like completely made up. But this piece of IMDB trivia says, McLean practiced what she calls metaphysical acting and actually became Madame Suzatska for the duration of filming right up to the last shot of the picture when the character left her body and McLean slumped where she sat with a fever of 104. I could not find corroboration for this. If this is in a book of hers, whatever, if this was written down anywhere, somebody send us the link because I want this to be true. And yet, like, it's IMDV trivia, so it sounds like super bullshit.

But it's like, watch the performance. It's like quintessential Shirley McLean. It's not like she was having an out-of-body experience. This is very in line with her vibe. Like, what are you talking about? Given her sort of, you know, psychic proclivities and things, I like the idea that she thinks she really had to get into character because, as we know, Madame Sissotka hates astrology and thinks the zodiac is stupid. So the only way she was going to be like, I can't, I can't get on board with this astrology stuff, was to go super deep on the character. Otherwise, it was just unfathomable.

The other thing that was funny about the Letterman thing is, we have seen multiple times that Shirley had been willing to send up that aspect of her. she mentions it in her Oscar speech. She says, you know, the way things have been going for me, everything, everyone I've ever met in this life or all my previous lives, you know, has had a hand in this. And then in Postcards from the Edge, they rewrote the lyrics to I'm still here to, like, adjust to her character, which included a part where she says, I'm feeling transcendental. Am I here? Like, and so like, she's incredibly willing to send this up, but she just did not feel like having Dave Letterman of all people, like, give her the business for it. And, like, that's what makes it a battle. And that's – and he did not feel like having Shirley McLean, of all people, give him the business about it.

And that's why it's amazing. So, yeah. We love you, Shirley McLean. Thank God you never found Scientology. That is so true. We'd all be dead by her hand if that was the case. No, but we do genuine. and Lee love her so much. I do. I absolutely do. Um, what are, did I have any other notes?

She does say such a sissy at some point, which again, you know, uh, times being what they were fits. Um, rude children listening to their rap music out in front of the piano recital, synaplexodion. Um, I teach not only how to play the piano, but how to live. Yeah. Does seem like a very sort of like, uh, you know, made to be put on a poster kind of a thing. But, like, she says that when she's, like, selling herself as a teacher, like, it's like a marketing ploy. It feels like a thing that a, like, a music teacher would say as opposed to, like, and I like that it's sort of, yes, it does outline her whole sort of philosophy and Manick's ultimate experience. But I think getting that out of the way as sort of a cheesy canned line as it is really, I think allows, at least allowed me to think about her more as a, like, character who is sort of putting on a little bit of this performance as a teacher as opposed to something that just feels like. lazy screenwriting. I also, I downplayed the sort of the visual filmmaking of this, and yet

I think the very last shots of this are so good in which Manick is walking away. He crosses paths with the, it's the former student, right, who is bringing his kid to visit her, to see her? Is it just a different person, different white Englishman altogether bringing his kid? That's the former student who gave that bottle off before. It is the former student. Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah, about how he toughened her up or she toughened him. And then so, right, that's right. And so he's bringing the kid, and so they cross paths, and then you cut back to Madame Suzatska. And, like, while she's looking out the window, the first floor of this building is, like, completely, like, boarded up and they are, like, clearing it out.

And so it's this kind of actually wonderful picture of, like, she's still for the time being up in her little perch. And yet, like, this is a, you know, this is a way of life for her that is crumbling out from underneath her. And it's a really, really potent visual that doesn't like, you know, that is still sort of like within these very sort of like modern English, you know, urban environments. And, you know, as we've seen in the nearly 30 years since this movie, just sort of norms surrounding students and teachers and their relationships have like changed so much. Like it really does feel like this is the beginning of an end of an era. Like my piano teacher routinely like put her hands on her shoulders physically adjusted my posture. Like, you don't do that in any teaching context anymore. Like, that's just a thing that's completely gone.

So you can see how there's a little bit appreciates to, like, oh, this way of teaching, this way of engaging with a human being is on its way out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The world wasn't made from Adam Suzatskas anymore. And here we are. Chris, any final thoughts from your notes or anything like that? I don't think so. All right.

Do you want to say one more thing. Just for anyone who's listening who did ever study classical piano to, any degree. This movie is filled with so much good, if you know, you know, stuff that's just kind of thrown away. Like, the addition of the Chopin etudes, that's the Padruski edition, like, people who are hardcore about piano know that if you're playing Chopin, you always have to use the Padruski edition. And, like, that's the book. I had that same book. So it's amazing. It's very, it's very sort of well observed in terms of, you know, like having a teacher who walks around the room and tries to, like, mime the dynamics that she's trying to get out of

you like just that little stuff in terms of her methodology and engagement with the music itself and the the actual pedagogy and instruction is is so, so well observed. And props to whoever was either a sound editor or pouring the water in those wine glasses because the scene when he has perfect pitch and he's naming the notes, I went and checked, man, every one of those assertions he makes is indeed accurate. So the people on the set of the movie were like, look, there's going to be some weirdo at home where if he says this is a B flat, we got to make sure this wine glass is a B flat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I will say, like, if you are, you know, if you want to check it out, it's available to rent for, it's like a quick $4 rental on iTunes and Amazon. If you are, you know, into Shirley, if you're a Schlesinger, completest. It is, in fact, the only movie that Ruth Prowar Javala wrote that wasn't a merchant ivory. Wow. Yeah, which is crazy. Yeah, a quick little $4 rental on iTunes. I bought the DVD.

It is a DVD with no menus and no subtitles. Uh-huh. Released by Universal's Vault series. And it's on a DVD-R-W, which means it's a re-witable disc. Oh, yeah. I could put that into a computer and erase it if I wanted to. Amazing. An intern ripped that movie for you after you ordered it.

And burned it on a laptop and put it in a case. Amazing. God bless it. God bless this film preservation that we have. All right. Chris, why don't you explain to our listeners what the IMDB game is, and then we can get into it. All right. Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. that's not enough. It just becomes a free for all of hints.

We love ourselves a free for all of hints. Taylor, as our guest, you get the option to either give your clue first or guess first and decide who you are giving slash guessing to slash from. I want to definitely guess first because if this goes poorly, I want it as far away from the end of the episode as possible, more likely to be forgotten by all the garries. But last time I gave to Joe and guest from Chris, so I'm going to reverse that. I'm going to have Chris give to – no, I'm going to have Joe give to me, and then I will give to Chris. Okay, all right. So, Taylor, we talked a little bit, or at least I did, about the odd fact that the final John Schlesinger film is the next best thing, starring Madonna and Rupert Everett. We have not done Madonna since, like, the first 30 episodes of this had Oscar Buzz back in, like, 2018. So, Taylor, it's four films.

Any non-acting credits? No, they are all acting credits. Okay. Apologies to W.E. I'm going to start off with Dick Tracy. No, not Dick Tracy. I know. I just recently rewerews.

watch Dick Tracy, though, and I got to say, can we just have, like, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it. I saw it for the first time this past Valentine's Day, and it was a wonderful experience. It's so good. It's so good. All right. I will say, a league of their own. A league of their own, correct. Let's go. Did you know that the credits, at least on IMDB, not only list their names, but what position they play? Awesome. May, Mortibito, Centerfield. That's cool. We have, let's say, swept away. No, that is your second strike. Okay, give me the years. So your years are 1985, 1996, and 2002. 96 is a Vita. Yes.

2002, I'm mad at this. This is probably freaking die another day. It is Die Another Day where she is credited for her cameo appearance in that movie. I feel like that just came up on like the things we lost in the fire episode. You guys are talking about Die Another Day? It might have. Oh, because of Halliberry.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a movie I've seen a million times. That was a sleepover with his friend's classic for Taylor. Oh, amazing. Amazing. Thanks, we lost the fire. Yes, we missed, obviously.

So we got died another day. We've got League of Their Own. We've got Evita and 1985. I'm going to guess Desperately Seeking Susan. It is desperately seeking Susan. Another movie I recently saw for the first time had a ball. Three of four movies where she plays the title character Because of course she plays die

And die another guy No kidding Four out of four She has an original song in all of those ways Yes That is true That is true That's very true

All right Only Oscar nominated for one of them though All right So you will then quiz Mr. Chris file All right Chris I also went from the John Schlesinger canon But I went to his best picture winning

Midnight Cowboy and shows someone with a great little supporting role in that movie, and that is one of our favorite character actors, Bob Balaban. The way I hooted and honored when Bob Balaban shows up in that movie, by the way. Bob Balaband, when he shows up in that era movie, high-key, haughty. A mousy little queer in Midnight Cowboy, incredible. You're talking like a five-two, like conceivably gay guy. Can I also say, by the way, when Brenda Vicaro finally shows up in Midnight Cowboy,

I nearly jumped out of my seat at two in the morning and started, like, dancing. It was amazing because she's third-billed in that movie. It goes, John Voight, or Dustin Hoffman, John Voight, and then the third-built person is Brenda Vicaro, and I'm like, all right. And then you're waiting the whole movie. I'm just, when are we going to get to Brenda McCarro? And then she finally shows up. At one point, because she's leaving with Joe Buck, with John Voight, and Ratzah Rizzo, who is in real tough shape at this point, like, falls down the stairs. and she's kind of half-Zooted at this point,

and she just looks at him, and she goes, oh, fella, fella, fella, you fell. And I'm just like, I don't know whether that was on the page or whether she's just goofing around, but it's so funny. Anyway, back to you, Chris. Well, Balaban, Balabans in a billion movies. It shows up for everybody on IMDB, so I have to guess Gosford Park. Gossard Park is correct. Wow. I was actually worried that it wouldn't show up for him.

He's so good. Well played. Some of the Christopher Gess has to be there. And I think he's most prominent in a mighty win. So I'm going to say a mighty wind. A mighty wind is correct. Damn. When Michael Hitchcock slaps him on the top of his bald head,

because he won't stop having safety precautions is so good. Okay. Do I go for another guest? I don't think so, but then what am I going to jump for? See, the thing about Balaban is I think there's not going to be anything on there pre-90s. Because now it's like the thing that we're so happy to see Bob Balaban show up in something. he is in a number of movies that are older. And I'm going to guess that there's a lot of comedies. But, and now all I can think of is Alston Pendleton stuff, not Bob Balaband stuff. God, put those two in a road trip movie together.

Yeah. Yeah. And I may just want to get to my years and clues. I'll say for your consideration. Incorrect? Okay. Bob Balaban, Austin, Pendleton, Wallace Sean, and who are the book club, are the male book club. Wallace Sean is literally in the book club.

Right, but I mean, so that's a spinoff. He's in a male book club with those two and who's our fourth that we'll have to figure it out after this episode. Listeners. Danny Glover. Right in. Glover's not really dorky enough. You got to really kid that like.

He's such a dork. Are you kidding me? Have you ever seen the man? I mean, like, brackets complimentary. I mean, if we're really spinning off from Book Club,

then it's Dreyfus, right? Oh, no, we wouldn't wish that. I love that Chris and I at the same time, just go, ooh. Okay.

I'm just going to throw out another guest to be done with it, best in show. I'm sure he's in best in show. Incorrect. So your years for your remaining two are 1977 and 2007 and 2005.

Okay. 77. Which one could it be? He's bearded in that era, so I'm trying to think of that ballaban. It's not going to be like an Altman or something. I feel like you're dancing right around it. Yeah. Also, we did just mention a prominent cast member. Oh, Jesus, yeah.

Oh, is it Dustin Hoffman or? No, we mentioned him even more recently, like, in the last 45 seconds. Oh, great. Michael Hitchcock. 977 is from a major director. A major director. Arguably the most major director. The major director, right.

Oh, Spielberg, Jaws. Bob Elman, not in Jaws. Not Chas. Oh, of course. Close and gas. He's maybe the first person you see. He might, I think it's the first line. Yeah.

I saw that movie last summer at an outdoor screening at Devil's Tower. Oh, fuck up. Which was the whole shit in the universe. I feel like you have told me that before, but I still react. I still react on off. Highlight of my last year. Yeah. Okay, so 2005 then.

This is going to be something stupid. It's going to be like aquamarine. No, this is a good. movie. I would say, I don't know if Joe agrees, but it's a good movie. No, I agree. I think you, this is a movie you like, I'm fairly certain. That, um, yeah, well-regarded, Oscar-nominated. But not an Oscar-y movie. No, an Oscar-e movie. Yeah. Oh, okay. Cool, cool. Oscar nominated for a performance. Yeah. For multiple performances. Couple. Multiple performances in 05. So, 05 is Brokeback Mountain. Crash. Great.

Keep going Yeah Yeah What are the other Movies of that year Is there an Eastwood that year? No, there was an Eastwood the year before So who actually

Wins these damn Oscars this year? Rachel Weiss He's not in that movie Um Multiple acting nominations In 05 I'll get there You're gonna get it

You're gonna get it um oh capote he is in capote that's the last one of his i'm pretty sure he's one of his like new york he's new york the new yorker editor william sean yeah oh there it is there was there was one time on back on the great american pop culture quiz show where one of our three equalizer questions was name the three actors who have played new yorker editor william sean wow i would have sucked did that. Wait, who are the other two? I forget or the other two, but Bob Ballavette was the one I would have gotten. Amazing. That is a Dan Casino-ass question right there. Dan Capone. You maniac. I love you. Capote. Great movie. One of the best movies of that year. Yeah. Absolutely. All done. Cool. So Joe Reed, for you, I chose presenter of Best Actress of at the Golden Globes. Anne Archer. Ann Archer. You bastard. Okay. Now this is good. All a film.

Yes, all film. Fatal Attraction Correct And thus we reach the end of the movies I can easily remember Ann Archer being in All right Chris, I'm looking at this.

This is mean. Well done. I didn't think it was mean. I thought I was like, oh, I got one that I think, you know, this will get tied up quickly. Is one of them, wait, is one of them shortcuts? Shortcuts is correct.

Okay. All right. So I at least got two. Um Anne Archer And Archer Um All I can think of is now

the year of the three Anns in supporting actress Anne Archer, Anne Ramsey, Anne Southern, uh, 1988 Um, okay.

When Anne Ramsey shows up in fun with Dick and Jane, by the way, I also, uh, who did Ann Allard? I love Anne Ramsey so much. Okay. So, um,

Ann Archer, is she in? I feel like she's in another, like, now I'm thinking it was like the fatal attraction sort of knockoffs. I'm like, she's not in hand that rocks the cradle. She's not like, I'm thinking of hers. The thing is, I think because you got shortcuts, I think, Is she also in the player? Is that a guess?

Yes. No, that's incorrect. I was literally about to say, if you get shortcuts, I think it is conceivable to get a perfect score. Oh, because it's other Altman's though. Is she in... No. No?

Okay. Shortcuts is the outlier. You're always going to get fatal attraction. Then you got shortcuts. Oh, I see. I shouldn't be giving hints. That's not a hint. Don't listen to me.

No, but I see... No, I understand what you're saying now, though. Okay. um because i was gonna be like but you're not gonna get a perfect score well that's fine um all right so are these like all like she's just is she's just oh wives no i'm not getting hints until i get another one wrong um because parenthood is mary steenbergen um and we're back to book club and we're back to by the way james hong is the fourth person in that book club. That's a good call.

Yeah. Okay. Make it happen, Hollywood. TikTok. Okay. I'm just going to throw out a guess and say that it's, that she is in Pritzie's Honor. Pritzie's Honor is incorrect. Your years are 1992 and 1994. I'll just say, since I basically are to give you kind of the hint. These are consecutive entries into a franchise. Okay, that's interesting. 92, 94.

Consecutive entries into a franchise, but not necessarily the first two entries into a franchise. I definitely watched these movies during COVID, and I was like, oh, these will be fine and serviceable, and I think I hated them. Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, I know what these are. I should have guessed these. God damn it. It's Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger.

Correct. She's his wife. Jack Ryan. She is the wife, again. She is the wife. Okay. I should have gotten that. No, you're totally, you are totally right to have expected that perfect score was on the table if I had just thought about it for long enough.

All right. Well, I am shame. Good game, everybody. Yeah, that's great. Good podcast, everybody. Taylor, once again, an invaluable part of the This Had Oscar Buzz family. And we are always happy to have you. a stellar game as usual when we deeply needed one sorry listeners once again about shirley mcclain six timers we will now she goes on the list with who is it kira nightly who we also owe them six timers for it maybe that's a patreon episode is just all the six time i owe you six timers i owe you um let more reason to go join us on the patreon i think you would be miserable uh prepping for that episode probably true all those quizzes probably true all right and i just get to show up that is also true all right um taylor

Thank you again. Anything you would like to impart upon our listeners where they can find more of you, where they can support music programs in our schools? What's going on? You can still hear me talking about music every, excuse me, talking about movies every once in a while with my friend Greta on the G&T podcast where we talk about movie double features that hopefully pair as well as gin and tonic water. That's still occasionally going on. I was recently on. Extra Hot, great. Go listen to me over there. But that's about it in terms of being online. Just showing up on other people's podcasts, which is always a joy, this one in particular. Happy to have you. Chris File, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Chris V File. That's F-E-I-O. I am on Blue Sky and Letterboxed at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon exclusive podcast about the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at Patreon.com.

slash Demi Pod. Both of my friends here have been on talking about Demi movies with me. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance. Someone named Taylor Cole for our theme music. Sounds lame. Please remember. He's probably surrounded by foam where he is right now. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts.

A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts, visibility. so straighten up and read some goddamn Dostoevsky and then write us something nice, won't you? That's all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more votes.