This Had Oscar Buzz - 347 – Take This Waltz

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

After a career as an actress, Sarah Polley made her directorial debut with Away From Her, landing Oscar nominations for both her screenplay and Julie Christie’s performance. Her follow-up would be a slight gear shift: the intimate character study of infidelity, Take This Waltz. The film stars Michelle Williams as a writer who begins to feel … Continue reading "347 – Take This Waltz"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Hi. Hey, Daniel, this is Lou. He's our neighborhood. Welcome to the neighborhood. Should we start walking?

Hey, hop in. I'll give you a ride. Oh, no. Are you serious? I've always wanted to ride in one of these. Oh. Hey on. See him at my husband. He seems to love you very much. He does, and I love him.

Is that what you came here to tell me? It's only up there. Should we get a dog? Dog is like a starter for a kid. No, dogs weren't like a starter for a cow or a bigger animal. I feel like being out in the world with you. Can we spend the day together, please? Yeah, I want to know what you could do to me.

Wow. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast that is living upstairs above Dame Peggy Ashcroft, perhaps for the last time. Every week on this head, Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my gay, gay lord, Chris File. Hello, Chris. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. You're never prepared. Going off into a Canadian rickshaw never to be seen again. You're never prepared for a gay lord reference.

in a movie. I will say that. Even having seen this movie before, you're just not prepared for Gaylord to just sort of crop up there. It's a knowing Gaylord, though. I mean, it's a Gaylord that knows that, you know, these are progressive-minded people who shouldn't be calling each other Gaylord. Well, certainly. And also, like, he calls her out for being, like, juvenile, which, like, is part of the thing, right? Like, she's still sort of, like, not a fully formed person through most of this movie. Like, I think that's, that's a big part of it. Almost as if that's what this movie is about.

Almost as if. Story of a gay lord who's learning to be a person. Try to explain that to heterosexual men. You know, this is not about some evil lady who... Well, I mean, we'll get into it because I think that's one of the most interesting aspects of this movie. It's about messy human people figuring it out. Well, and I think even beyond just like messy human people, like one of the things that I love the most about this movie is it leaves you a lot of space to conclude even by the end of the movie that like she made wrong decisions. She made wrong decisions in service of her right decisions.

You know what I mean? Sure. You can look at her by the end of this movie. Typical this had Oscar buzz talking about the ending at the beginning. But you can look at her at the end of this movie and it's just like, she's, you can, you could, you could be a. the opinion that this is somebody who has made a series of wrong decisions and yet she's going to be all right. You know what I mean? Like she's going, she's in a spot now where like she knows more than she did two hours ago in this movie, you know? I'm not even sure she made

a series of wrong decisions because... You can have the, like, you're free to have that option. That's sort of what I mean. I mean, she never cheated on Seth Rogen. Okay. She waited. All right. But, she, I mean, she didn't. Okay, but like, this is a movie, like, this is a perfect example of, like, what is maybe worse than cheating? You know what I mean? Like, what is, to sort of. I mean, maybe knowing that your relationship is over and dragging your feet about it. By the way, people do that all the time.

Oh, totally. That's, listen. These are also characters in their 20s, like. I'm not, I'm not in opposition to you. You do not have to, to, to, to, to, to, to. combat me on this. All I'm just saying is like this is, it's a good thing about this movie. Is that like

she can be wrong. My cheeky comment though is it's not that she made the wrong decisions. It's that she's, she waited too long to make the right decision. Which is unfortunately to leave Seth Rogen.

Doesn't mean go be with Luke Kirby who clearly does not have his shit together. Maybe you go have sex with Luke Kirby. I don't even think it's that Luke Kirby doesn't have a shit together, though. I think it's just like it's, it's, that's what happens. It's what happens.

It's what the, you know, naked, wise lady said in the shower. It's just like the new, you know, becomes old. You know what I mean? Well, and there's the juxtaposition of the two relationships, too, that it's not even a new old thing. It's that this ex-boyfriend has a whole. set of language and operating procedure and stories

and then this new boyfriend Luke Kirby that guy in your memory is just a montage, you know? There's not a whole, there may not be a whole lot of there, but you know. Well, and it's just a matter of like, you get the

sense I do at least watching this movie, and maybe this is just me having my own interpretation of this, which again, I think is a, you know, feature of the movie, not a bug, is that like, this is somebody who doesn't know a lot about herself at the beginning of this movie. And by the end of the movie, that's the triumph of it, is she knows so much more about herself, what she wants, what she doesn't want, what she likes, what she doesn't like.

And nobody's the bad guy. Like, nobody's the bad guy in, you know, it's not that Seth Rogen was, you know, wrong for her necessarily, but it's that Seth Rogen was, you know, some things, and then Luke Kirby was other things, and neither one of them was the complete thing. And part of it is that, like, she probably wasn't going to fit with anybody at that point because she didn't know who she was. Right. She has to figure herself out first. And ultimately, I think that's where the movie gets. You know, that's what I think the visual idea of that final shot of the movie is that it's fine that it's just her on the ride now. And she's figuring that part out And maybe there's not answers in a way

That doesn't give you a pseudo-ambiguous ending But she's okay to be alone Because here's the thing She is on the She if Seth Rogen were to have been amenable to it I do think she'd have gone back to Seth Rogen At that last scene they have together Where she starts to be like

You're not seeing anybody You know after sort of Sarah Silverman's told her what's what And I think Seth Rogen makes that call, I think, partly out of being hurt and partly out of being angry, but also partly out of being right. Being correct, yes, because she, it's, again, it's impulse that's pushing her towards Seth Rogen, not any type of decisive, better decision for herself. Right. Which is an interesting, like, basically, yes. final beat we get and I think a risky final beat

we get to have with a protagonist. Yes. That's so interesting that maybe she's not you know she, it's fine to have it be like the ultimate place we're left with this character

is she's on her own and figuring it out. She's on her way. She hasn't gotten there yet. Like she's still she was ready to make another bad decision by going back to Seth Rogen. And I think that's really instructive because then it's like, you know, this ending is not, you know, finality for her.

She has taken this step finally to get on this carnival ride by herself and to no longer sort of, you know, be moving towards a man or away from a man or like towards a friendship or whatever. Like I think what Sarah Silverman says to her, like really kind of fucks with her and um and it's not that sarah silverman by the way in that's in that monologue is both right and wrong you know what i mean and like right i don't know i fucking love this

movie i think it's so good i think sarah polly's an empathetic genius and um i don't know i fucking love empathetic but also honest you know yeah i don't think that there's villains in this movie much as like you read certain male critics and you think that you know michelle will is playing a monster. Red flag, red flag, red flag. Don't listen or read anybody that says something like that. Yeah. But, you know, much as like some people might interpret it this way,

I think she has a lot of empathy and honesty and a balance for both in how she presents the character that feels somewhat singular of these, like, 20-teens type of independent relationship drama. Yeah. Yeah. Or psychosexual drama. I think it's...

That makes it sound like it's some kind of thriller. I know, right? But I do think psychosexual drama is an appropriate thing to call this movie. No, the term psychosexual has been co-opted by thrillers and we need to take it back. It can be, you can have a movie be psychosexual, not have it be about... You can have a movie, people be horny, but not murderous. Not be about Laura Flynn Boyle trying to kill people in 94.

That are puritan. botanical ideals that are very embedded in us, say that if you are horny, someone must also be in danger. Oh, we're so sex negative in this country. Watching the first Austin Powers last night, I was like, oh, they didn't understand sex negative, sex negativity at the time. Like, that was not a thing at that point. Because the whole premise of Austin Powers is, like, he comes from a time when, like, people, you know, were, you know, it was free love and everybody was, you know, sort of like, horny and sexually disgusting. And now in 1997, nobody can have

sex like that anymore because everybody has to have, you know, condoms and monogamy and whatever. And... Everyone's a shame of their bodies. Everybody's got hang-ups. We can't have this conversation. If they want to... You listen to us have this conversation, they can... They can subscribe to my Zembe podcast. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Actually, no, they are in danger at one point because he takes them on that rickshaw on Queen Street. I think it's College Street, because it's The movie theater that they go to is on College Street. Oh, I thought, oh, they live somewhere near Queens. They do.

Well, like, College and Queen are parallel to each other, I believe. So, I know that that's where the movie theater is, at least. They may be on the Rikshan Queen Street at one point. Too busy. Too busy for a Rikshah. It's quite busy. It's quite busy. The Rishaw...

The street that had, like, street cars in it, too. You're talking cars, street cars, and rickshaws, and pedestrian traffic, probably bicycles too many modes of... If I'm wrong and there are no street cars on College Street than I do. apologize and it is on Queen Street, at least at that point. But anyway, Rickshaw has to be the most annoying way to make a living. Like, just on your feet all day and not just on your feet, but running and not just running, but like lugging, you know, drunk partiers. People behind you. Yes. And like, and your back is to them. So, like, your back is to them. So, like, they could be, like, talking about,

you and you like, you know, you have to just sort of like, you know, phase forward and take it. It's an open air rickshaw. I'm sure if they were talking shit about you, you would know. That's what I mean. Like, but you have to like, they are encouraged to talk, not even talk shit about you, would just sort of like, I don't know, to talk about you that you're not there. I think it's, I mean, the running is the, is the most annoying part of it. Um, but it's kind of perfect because it's also like, it's an annoyingly hipster job, right? It's annoyingly, like, it's, it's, it's, it's before everybody decided to be um uber drivers in movies now you know in this case he's a rickshaw driver and like her husband is writing a cookbook but he's writing a cookbook about cooking chicken

which i think is so funny because it's like what's the most like basic thing you could write a cookbook about okay but basic cookbooks sell as like gifts well of course you know what i'm talking about though like it's yes we do yeah but also you would buy that guy's cookbook First of all, Seth Rogen, so he's hot. He just looks so silly on that cover of it, too, where he's holding the tea drumsticks. I mean, all right, let's get it out of the way because also this is, this was definitely in the era of people who were still being like, can't believe Seth Rogen's married to a beautiful lady in a movie. And it's like, A, you're stupid. Yeah, he's hot.

B, he's handsome. C, live in the world for like half a second, right? We're like, live in the world that isn't, like, isn't social media, that isn't influencer culture or whatever. like regular looking people are with regular looking people and they're all beautiful. You know what I mean? Just like, shut the fuck up. Stupid. Seth Rogen, cooking chicken.

I love that this episode is the both of us just like yelling at phantom people. Just like fully like establishing straw men. You're like stupid male critics. You're saying that she's a bitch. And I'm just like stupid people who are calling Seth Rogen too ugly to date Michelle Williams. And we're all just, we're all just angry at people. I don't know. If people think that Seth Rogen is, in your words, too ugly to date, I know a lot of women who would say very differently and have for quite some time.

No, Seth Rogen's hot. And Seth Rogen's hot in this movie. The idea that you can only and should only date and marry and procreate with people of your exact same attractiveness level is, I'm going to say, it fascist. And I think we should all... It's giving eugenics. We should all examine how we feel about that, because that is not the way to true genetic diversity, first of all. And it's giving inbreeding, it's giving royal family 20 generations down the line. And ultimately, we don't need it. We don't need it. We don't want it. In this movie, though, they're a soup of American and Canadian jeans.

Yes. Wait, is she supposed to be American in this? Well, Michelle Williams isn't American. Is she Canadian? I don't think she's not Canadian. I don't think any of these people are. Well, Luke Kirby definitely is. Luke Kirby is like Canada's favorite son. Hamilton, Ontario's own. Luke Kirby. Michelle Williams was born in Montana. Remember that whole thing when we did certain women? She was from Montana.

Seth Rogen is from Vancouver. So Sarah Silverman is from New Hampshire. So, yeah, Seth Rogen, Canadian. All very northern. But she, like, Michelle pulls out a story every once in a while. So Michelle was definitely, you know, committed to the project. She always says, she does not miss. I only just in preparing for.

this episode realized she hasn't been in a movie since the Fableman's, which is wild to me. Well, did she have another child with, uh, what's his name? Possibly. With, uh, Hamilton guy. Um, I mean, she does everything. She hasn't done theater for a while, I don't think, but, you know, dying for sex just happened. Now she's just had dying for sex, which is her TV show.

Was she on the stage? I don't know. I mean, I'm in favor of her, you know, taking breaks, too. Fableman's was only three years ago. Yeah. I'm in favor of her doing whatever she wants. Yes, I think she's wonderful. Wonderful in this movie.

Really, really. Again, I think it's, we call performances brave. And I'm not going to, like, police that because, you know, feel how you want to feel about a performance. But I think we call performances brave for things like making yourself look uglier than you really are, or taking on a character who is particularly nasty or villainous or, you know, like, overtly... Making yourself extremely vulnerable on screen. Like, to play a murderer, to play somebody who, like, you know, abuses their children, to play somebody like...

To play, like, those people, like those roles are often called, those performances are often called brave. I think what Michelle Williams is legit bravery, because she is playing a character who is the kind of, and I'm using air quotes, so like, don't jump on me, unlikable, where it truly does put herself out there. Like, that is playing a character who you know that is going to be very difficult for the audience to sympathize with. because of what the plot has her doing in this movie and because of the choices that she is making in this movie. The character arc, you know, the type of discovery that this character is going on, the only time the audience ever hates that character, scare quotes, is when it's a woman. Like, male characters are allowed to have this type of journey all the time because it's some type of soul, spiritual, yada, yada. Well, and also, we just don't require male characters to be likable on the same level.

Like, a man could play a role in which he leaves his, you know, pretty much flawless wife. Like, his wife who has done no wrong to be with, you know, somebody who is, I'm not going to call Luke Kirby's character like a fuck boy in this movie, but he's definitely like, he's in his cutoff shirts, you know, he's, you know, he's running around with a rickshaw. I want to have a red flag conversation. Anyway, go on. All right. God. I'm sure his rickshaw has a literal red flag.

I'm going to be so annoyed by this red flag conversation, but okay. Where was I? Oh, so if a man plays a character who leaves his, like, you know, a wife who has done no wrong to be with somebody. The audience can be like, what an asshole. I'm so interested in this guy. You know what I mean? What an asshole. a great character. What an asshole. Don Draper's great. Like, Don Draper, what a great complicated character.

I love this guy. You know what I mean? Whereas a woman does it and it's just like, I refuse to watch this person because like she sucks so bad. You know what I mean? And that's the difference is it's not that we. And people don't even realize they're doing it. Right. There are, you know, there's always malicious audience members, but then there are also unconscious. It's, you have to, you know, I am a big, you know, proponent of recognizing the fact that whatever kind of social conditioning you've had is making you have a reaction to somebody. And like, let's maybe like, you know, chip back at that a little bit. Maybe let's chip some of that away a little bit. And maybe take a moment, if you can recognize, if you can recognize that that's what's happening, be like, oh, that's

interesting. What if I think about this another way for a second? Just as an experiment. Just as a social experiment, guys. Just trying it. What? You want Seth Rogen to still be with her while she's figuring it out? Now let him go, be happy. That's the thing. She can go and also be happy. And I think he will. I think he will be happy. What I find fascinating about it is he's not rejecting her at the end because he thinks he'll be happier. He's rejecting her, I think, out of woundedness, which is very understandable. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, no. He's like, no, like, we didn't have this conversation back then. I don't want to have it now, like that kind of a thing. And it's just like, go about your business. And then, of course,

he does the, he says the melon baller line, which is, you know, kind, because it's him saying, you know, I do love you. And it's a... A acknowledging their shared language that they developed themselves through the course of their relationship. A shared language that is kind of still a little bit. It's symbolic of their love, but also what I find fascinating is when she tries to break out the baby talk with Luke Kirby, and he's just not interested, which, again, is not a flaw on Luke Kirby's part. It is a reminder that, like, Michelle Williams is still, like, hasn't fully, like, grown up. You know what I mean? Has not fully established adult, you know, qualities and sensibilities,

which is a very interesting thing. Speaking of adult qualities and sensibilities, let's talk about Luke Kirby. Okay. Well, do you want... Okay. First, I just want to say off the top, I am not immune. He is so hot in this movie. Thank you for at least admitting it.

I thought you were going to try and gaslight me and I was... What are you talking about? Like, you've heard me talk about this movie before. Take me to a martini lunch, Luke Kirby, et cetera. Just not on your rickshaw because, like, I don't need that. What is the biggest red flag, though? What's the rickshaw? What is the biggest red flag?

It's the rickshaw. For her. Is it that he has the rickshaw, that he's a painter, or that he's her neighbor? Well, the neighbor thing. If you're her and you are in this situation, what's the, what of those three red flags is going to make you run away fastest? Well, you can't run away from the neighbor thing because it's like, what are you going to move? And if you move because you're too attracted to this guy, like that doesn't say anything good about anything that's going on. Thank you.

I'm not fucking my neighbor. That was the thing for me that I'm like, yeah, but he's your neighbor? Well, and she doesn't. She waits until he moves to a lighthouse in Nova Scotia. And then she's like, now, finally, now we can. That, by the way, I think, is, if there's a thing I'm going to maybe knock the movie for,

is once the movie reaches that point, we kind of ignore all laws of geography and time, where she's just sort of like, how much time has elapsed during this, like, time lapse with her living there with Luke Kirby, where, like, now she, like, gets called back into service once Sarah Silverman goes off the wagon at, like, a moment's notice, and then she's just, like, sort of trapeses back to Halifax. But yet, when she's talking to them, she's talking as if, like, she's just down the road, but she's not just down the road. She's like a couple provinces over by this point. The Halifax of the Mind. She's in the Halifax of the Mind. Honestly, there is an argument to be made, I imagine, that like a lot of...

That whole relationship is in the Halifax of the Mind. A little bit. Like, it's not like she never goes to see him, but that like this imagined sort of, you know, year or more where they, you know, fuck various, fucking various configurations and... in different numbers and whatnot. I do like that, and that's the very sort of, like, dying for sex. There's parallels to dying for sex in this thing, and that was the biggest one where she's just like, oh, now that I have, like, made this decision to leave my husband, I'm going

to figure out what I like sexually. Like, that'll be fun. And good for her, I say. I'm not knocking the rickshaw or the painting of themselves. It's the way that he operates around. there's nothing wrong with having a job having a trade having an art no i know i know of course not it's just that he's like yeah this is kind of what i do sure like it doesn't actually feel like it's his job so like i also feel red flags of like trust fund baby who maybe well now i feel like we're

just in the realm of fan fiction at this point sure sure but you can imprint upon this character a lot I think that that character is kind of designed to be that way, too, you know? Like, what was he doing at Colonial Halifax? Like, what was, I sent you, by the way, the website to the place where they filmed that at, by the way. I loved Colonial Halifax. I love that she is a freelance writer who gets to do copywriting basically for a travel pamphlet and they pay for her travel expenses. How do I get this job? I'll go to Colonial Halifax.

It's actually, we should say, it's the Fortress of Lewisburg National Historic Site in Nova Scotia. When are we looking up the Airbnb listings for that place, for our next group vacation? I wrote it down. Hold on. Okay. The first line in the movie, because it's all, you know, you enter the movie, as you do all in movies, I guess. But, like, it's more visual than anything. You're not really given any hardcore. Right. information until you are there at uh you know she's cooking throughout the credits and then

we're in colonial nova scotia and she's witnessing a catholic wedding so it's like here we go two two images of what the woman is supposed to be starting at the top of this movie um and then we get to subvert it but uh the the first line in the movie is everyone to the town square for the public humiliation which uh feels very appropriate to yeah this movie that I don't believe is autobiographical in any way for Sarah Polly, but, you know, I do think that there are shades of this that are like excoriating parts of ourselves in watching this movie. So the movie very much feels like a public humiliation. Yeah. Um, I also, I also, I was, like. For, I think, I think that's the other thing that people bristle against in this movie, that people, want to point the finger of judgment because they're afraid of feeling or relating to this character in this way that I think upsets people or something. Well, it is also, I will say, like, it is a bit of a natural reaction, especially because

you see her how well she fits with his family, you know what I mean? She's really drawn to the, obviously she's like, she's best friends with Sarah Silverman, who's playing Seth Rogen's sister. She's really great with Sarah Silverman's daughter. She sort of has a great sort of like aunt, niece relationship. She really gets along with her mother-in-law. Her mother-in-law says the thing at the beginning about like, you'll make a great matriarch when I'm gone and like whatever, which is such a compliment you imagine coming from the mom. You know what I mean? And you can also imagine where it hits Michelle Williams like, oh, like that's sort of where I, that's the track that I found myself on, right?

Is sort of I'm on the matriarch track, which is interesting. But they all really love her. They all really get along. You can have all of those things going well. And this doesn't even come down to like relationships. You can have like romantic relationships. You can have a lot of good non-romantic relationships or things going well for you. but then something core to you goes wrong and it's just like, well, how do I solve this in my circumstance?

But you feel their sense of betrayal, right? You feel their sense of betrayal when she ends up, because she ends up leaving Seth Rogan, but she also ends up leaving this whole family. She leaves her best friend. She leaves, you know, all these other people who cared for her and in certain ways depended on her. And which isn't to say, again, that she's bad for doing this. But, like, I do. feel like everybody, you know, watches a movie bringing their own experiences into things. And, you know, it's, again, I think, I think the movie is great, not because it is presenting somebody who, you know, does things that society considers bad, but they're actually not so bad. I like that the movie is like, no, like, she might have fucked up. You know what I mean? Like, she might have hurt these people too bad. And, and, and. But in the long,

run she probably did the smarter thing for herself. Maybe. It's a very nuanced perspective on this character that I think is much more valuable than anything fully prescriptive. Yes. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I feel like we can maybe talk a little bit more once we get on the other side of the plot description. Before we do that, though, Chris, why don't you let our listeners know exactly why our Patreon is good for them? Because it's more of what you already love. but it's also a lot of fun. Over on our Patreon, we call it this had Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance. For $5 a month, you're going to get two bonus episodes.

First comes on the first Friday of the month. This is what we call exceptions. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric, but managed to score an Oscar nomination or two. Earlier this month, we talked about interview with a vampire, a movie we have promised to do for some time. that, Joe, if I do say so myself, is a good time. Oh, it's quite a good time.

I will one million percent agree with you on that one. It is an awesome time. We do movies high and low, both, you know, beloved favorites like Mulholland Drive, far from heaven, inside Lewin Davis. And then we do the junkier fair, like House of Gucci, Phantom of the Opera, Knives Out. Those are two episodes we've had guests for. Vanilla Sky. There's two whole years worth of episodes at this point,

or close to two whole years worth of episodes. There's a lot of exception episodes to go back and check. There's also a lot of what you're going to get on the third Friday of every month. That's our excursion episode. Those are deep dives into Oscar Ephemer. We love obsessing about on this show, such as EW Fall Movie Previews, Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtables.

We've recapped old awards shows like the Indy Spirit Awards and past MTV Movie Awards. This time, this month, we are going to be talking about a very notorious Academy Awards. This is the one where Roblo gets a little duet on with Snow White, produced by Alan Carr. We're going to get into it. This is unofficially 1988 month at This Had Oscar Buzz between Madam Susatka and

the 1988 Oscars. We're really going for it. Yeah. We'll talk about Susatka again. I'm sure when we record that episode. But go over to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz and sign up for the turbulent brilliance now. Excellent. All right, Chris, I'm going to put you on the spot in a second to give a 60-second plot description of

Take This Waltz. But first, I'm going to give you The Basics. Take This Wall. It's written and directed by Sarah Polly. This is her second film after, away from her. We'll get into that. Starring Michelle Williams, Seth Rogen, Luke Kirby, Sarah Silverman. It was distributed in the United States by Magnolia Pictures, although I should mention that one of the Canadian production companies is, of course, Mongrel Media, my beloved Mongrel Media, which had not yet established its title card and theme music that one million percent transports me to the Toronto of the mind every time I hear it. So good on you, Mongrel Media for that. This movie, speaking of Toronto, premiered on September 10th, 2011 at the Toronto International Film Festival and then was not a presence in the rest of the 2011 award season. Instead, it was picked up by Magnolia, which then released it on May 25th, 2012, on VOD, and then put it in theaters a month later on June 29th.

It was that kind of time. So a movie that probably wasn't going to tear it up at the box office anyway, and probably I imagine a lot of people were thankful they could see it on VOD instead of having to wait for it to come to a town near them. But I don't know. It was an interesting era in our, you know, know, in our pre-streaming life. Day and date.

Except it wasn't day and date. It was early by a month. But yes, a lot of different strategies were employed by the studios around that time. The weekend that it premiered on VOD was essentially, it was Memorial Day weekend in the States. So if you're wondering what you could have done, if you wanted to venture outside, instead of watching, take this waltz from the comfort of your own home. You could have watched the first weekend of Men in Black Three, the fourth weekend of the Avengers, the third weekend of Battleship. God, remember The Dictator. I think we all remember movies like The Dictator and Dark Shadows and what to expect when you're

expecting. Anywho, Chris, I've got my stop watch out. If you are ready, we can begin the process of you attempting to do the plot of Take This Waltz in 60 seconds or less. I mean, I think this is going to be relatively easy. I know I've said that before and gone two minutes over. Good luck. She's counting on you. I'm pointing to the Sarah Polly behind me and my background. All right. Ready and begin.

All right. We follow Margo. She's a freelance writer. She, uh, while on an assignment to Colonial Nova Scotia, meets a haughty named Daniel and they, uh, end up flying next to each other and sparking up a conversation. and it's very clear that they're turned on to each other. They both live in the same neighborhood slash wait. They get into a cab together from the airport and find out they're actually neighbors.

Wow, they're so turned on by each other. Margo goes home to her husband, Lou, who is a cookbook author. 30 seconds. And not really a chef. And begins to marinate on the idea of an affair or leaving her husband even with Daniel, including day trips to a bar where he tells her how he would have sex with her. then they go around basically sightseeing to like fairies and like things like you know uh tourist traps eventually she does leave lou um and uh they break up he she has a whirlwind romance with daniel and it basically kind of we given the visual clue that it falls apart she while uh her sister-in-law relapses for uh as an alcoholic goes back to save them and then uh reunited with lou's like should we get together no he does not want to get back together with her she goes to figure it all out on her own.

16 seconds over. That's pretty good. I probably could have kept that tighter, but... Pretty, pretty good. One of the things I think is interesting about this is we talk about, like, visual cues and whatnot, which I don't disagree with you, that the visual cues are certainly saying that the relationship with Luke Kirby, I don't know if necessarily it falls apart, but it definitely, like, loses its luster.

And... Well, the... The baking scene at the end of the movie, we realized that there was maybe some type of elliptical thing going on. Because the man in her life we see in the credit sequence when she's baking is kind of this phantom figure. But we see it again at the end and we realize that that's Luke Kirby. So like the idea is, is she on a cycle? Is there a realization that there is repeated behavior?

going on here. The one... And that's when it cuts to her alone on the... What do we even call that thing? A Twista? It's a scrambler. She's on the scrambler.

She's on the scrambler. She's going to get... She's... What do they call that? Isn't there like a chain brunch place? Like, Scramble or something. Oh, yeah. Okay.

She'd get breakfast. Yeah. No. She's on the carnival ride, but she's alone this time when she had previously been with her. haughty, we're not having

an affair neighbor. Yes. So to me that says that there is a cycle being broken. Yes. Absolutely. But there's not you know, it's not definitive for her future. It still leaves her in a place to kind of figure it out.

And yeah, you know, the exact tone of that final shot of the movie I think is a little more ambiguous. You could interpret, you know, the way Williams is playing it in a melancholy fashion, you could even interpret it, I think, in a more carefree kind of lost in her own cycles fashion. But I do think that the suggestion is she's, you know, at least on her own

path. I'm going to be extra obnoxious, and I'm going to even say that the song choice of Video Killed the Radio Star is significant in that. That is a song about... You know how I feel about this. Lyrically, it is a song about how, you know, the advent of a new technology has made... Replacement. Has replaced the old technology and the stars of the earlier era have now been made obsolete. Or, however, though, the way that song ends with this sort of, like, beautiful sort of like,

ah, radio, like that. And then it sort of just, you know, repeats itself, repeats itself. But it, you know, offers you. And of course, Video Killed the Radio Star being iconically, like, the first music video ever played on MTV, right? Sure. It offers you the promise of something new and fresh. And, you know, you have not necessarily experience, like, you know, this isn't a death. This is a, you know, this is a birth of something new.

And you can, that's, you know, you can interpret it that way, you know, she's, her marriage has died, her sort of fantasy, you know, this fantasy she had of being sort of like fucked, fucked into happiness by, you know, this guy, the illusions of that have maybe passed. And now, you know, the radio star is dead, but now she's maybe ready to move into the video star part of her life. Well, and you can... Not literally. You could even say that the illusion is passed before she even, you know, gets with Luke Kirby, ultimately. You know, the illusion is never to pass. It is always passing it. It's always gone away. You know, like, it can never get hotter.

It can never get better than them sitting over those martinis they didn't want when he tells her how he's going to have sex with her. Yes. You know, by that point, it's already gone. That's sad. You know, the dream is in the past. I think actually, like, the following through with it and actually, like, doing all the, like, sex capades that we see in the montage is good for her. You know what I mean? It's like, that is life experience that she is, you know, she will be, you know, happy to have had.

Well, and also, you know, in this very, you know, song sequence, the way it's used in the movie, because it's earlier in the movie. Yeah, it's the same song both touches on the scrambling. They go together there. And when the song first comes up, you're like, ah, Sarah Polly, great song choice. awesome song it feels like some type of carnival corny thing but is like not really

a movie you've heard in a modern movie so it's like you just have good taste in music don't you yeah um and but then you know you're kind of getting they're getting lost in each other and then the ride hard stops it's the best moment

in the movie in some ways because it's very much like you know this this this is very much for the both of them this fantasy that can really never be fulfilled, and it's already something in the past. The ride stops, the music stops, the lights that turn on are the sort of harshest, brightest, most like unforgiving lights possible. It's just this cold white light that is everywhere, and all you see around them are steel beams, you know what I mean?

It's just like, it's just like could not be more, you know, of a... Less sexy, less romantic. It's an incredible, you know, visual, abrupt visual turn. I giggle every time it happens because it's just incredible. Yeah, I think it's just a wonderful character study. And it is, and I think beyond just the fact that, again, it gives Michelle Williams this like really, really interesting character to play. I think also just it has, you know, some sort of moments on the way. It's not just this. you know, unrelenting sort of her miserably sort of trying to figure out what's, you know, wrong with her life or whatever. We get some of these great sort of like, first of all, I love a movie where Toronto gets to play itself rather than has to play some sort of, because you get so much more character out of the city. I think you get, this is, I don't live in Toronto and I'm not Canadian, but I imagine if I did, I would probably look at a movie like

Take This Waltz as like, you, like somebody who has lived in New York looks at like one of those sort of those great New York movies where people are just sort of like walking around and you're like, oh my God, I love it. Because like you're in, you know, this, they're in the little Portugal area, which is sort of west of the part of Toronto where we stay when we're there for the festival. But you get to, they go to the beach and they go to, like I said, the amusement park on Center Island and they go sort of like it, they go to the Royal Theater on. college. You get so much more of, you know, the character of Toronto beyond just the parts of the city that are made to be able to double for, you know, other parts of the world. And it's wonderful to see. And so you get that, you get the, you know, the, you know, little parties that they throw and, you know, gather around each other. The scene where they're doing pool aerobics with the, you know, with all the old. older ladies is really, really funny and kind of instructive in a lot of certain ways.

That is a scene where I definitely, it's maybe the least I like Michelle Williams in the whole movie where it's just like, don't be a selfish asshole and pee in the pool. Jesus Christ. Well, she can't stop laughing. She can't help it? Can't she? I don't know. That's my, that's the moment where I'm least sympathetic to her because literally now everybody's got to get out of the pool. Don't make me get out the pool. Do not, do not. The purple cloud is very funny. It's very funny. Well, and also the The pool aerobics instructor is a fucking scream.

The moment where he's doing, like, epaulettes, death, what is it? Oh, what's the term he uses? Like, deaf thank you or something like that, right? Or no, deaf cheering. Hold on. I wrote it down. Clapping. Appalettes, deaf clapping.

Epilettes, deaf clapping. It's so fucking funny. I love that guy. I love... I mean, none of her water aerobics. classmates seemed to be all that angry with her. They were annoyed. They were perturbed. But then also you get that great scene in the showers where, you know, it's the three of them, you know, talking, you know, in their

little, you know, corner about stuff and they're being sort of eavesdropped on by the other ladies who every once in a while will like throw, you know, the lady says new things get old. But, and I mean, this is a very talk about straw men. You know what I mean? But, like, this is a very easy person to knock about this. But I think about that scene. And then I think about the bullshit that Tom Ford got up to in nocturnal animals where, you know what I mean? Where he's showing all those sort of just like overweight naked women and whatever. And he's like, I'm celebrating the human body or whatever.

And it's just like, no, it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be, yes, but it's also like, yeah, but I'm not doing that. all these people that I'm supposed to be satirizing are the people that do that, as if Tom Ford didn't just fucking do, like, no. And you look at something like, take this waltz, which actually is just sort of like, yeah, like, we're all just going to be real casual about this, everybody. We're just in a women's locker room, and they're all kind of getting real with each other. All different types of women's bodies.

And, of course, this is the thing that I remember when this movie was on VOD. everyone was like well Sarah Silverman's naked in this and it's like come on like you're everybody get a hold of yourselves people like missing the point yes the like very literal point of what this scene is doing and I also think you know you're talking about the um you mentioned the line that she says where it's like new gets old new things get old yeah that's almost like you can't put like I think if you just look at that script because the conversation that happens is a conversation that could maybe happen anywhere else. Well, Silverman's talking about like, do I, you know, do I fuck somebody new essentially? Like, do I stick with my husband or do I fuck

somebody new? And she's sort of talking about it in this vague sort of like probably never going to happen, but like I'm just, you know, we're just talking kind of a way. Right. And then the context of a statement like that, it could be so much of an eye roll somewhere else. You know, it could be too tidy. It could be too much of a button on it. But I think by the nature of of where Polly places that scene, you're able to actually listen to that statement and not feel like it's some corny, grand, you know, it actually is allowed to sink in. So there's like value in why that scene is set there. Yes, yes, absolutely. Let's talk about Sarah Silverman for a second, because you bring her up. This was definitely... Sarah Silverman is going to be an

actress. Well, and not just that, but it's just sort of like, this is the rare sort of, she hadn't really done a movie role like this before. This is before I smile back. She wanted to do dramatic role. This is before like Battle of the Sexes or anything like that. She's so good at Battle of the Sexes. She's so good in Battle of the Sexes. I still, I can't bring myself to see I Smile Back, which always, whenever I hear it described, it sounds like a parody of an indie movie. Well, we'll do an episode. I'm sure we will at some point. I really, really like her in this movie. I think this movie sort of like gets a good, as Battle of the Sexes did, actually, does a good job with sort of harnessing that quality that she has, that sort of, you know,

um, she can be so, uh, devastatingly deadpan. She can be so, like, she can, you, you don't realize she's kind of coming for your neck until she's coming from you. And she's not playing a vicious character. But like it gives her, she's playing like a really incredibly sympathetic character. She's playing, you know, a Rogan sister. She's, you know, a recovering alcoholic, but she's sort of, you can tell that she doesn't have a whole ton of confidence in her recovery. She talks about how she's like, you know, she seems to be always sort of like thinking ahead to the day where, you know, this all sort of falls apart. But she sees more than maybe she lets on, she sees Luke Kirby at the pool, she sees, you know, and then it all kind of culminates

after she's fallen off of the wagon and Margot comes back to town, to sort of be there for the niece, but also for her friend, which again, this is the space and time thing. They called her when the sister went missing, but she makes it to Toronto in time for like Sarah to like roll up and you know crash her car on the street like what was the span of time here how long did it take where where was she when they called her like what's what's what's happening here anyway um she has that sort of a monologue every you know Michelle sort of like interjects a couple of things um that to me sort of rides right on the edge of being writerly versus you know something more sort of, you know, easy a little bit more, that sort of like feels more spontaneous.

But I think it's so, I think even, even writerly, I think some of the things that she says in there are so sort of bracing when she says, she says you disappeared, what a fucking obvious move. And you think life can be worked out if you, you know, can make the right move. you know, she says, how thrilling. And the line, of course, that I think is in the trailer, the life has a gap in it. You don't go crazy trying to fill it like some lunatic. All of these things really, really hit Margot. And all of these things are true, to some degree or another, about the both of them.

And the thing is that Silverman's character is pissed because, like, she thinks Margot is pitying her to some degree, which to some degree she kind of is, where Margot is like, what did you do? And she's like, what did I do? What did you fucking do? You know what I mean? Like, you know, you left your husband. You left your family, which is our, you know, her family. And she's just like, don't fucking look down on me. Like, in my view, like, we both fucked up in different ways.

So I don't know. I think she delivers it really, really well. And I think it's a really, really compelling moment in the movie. I do too. I think it's smart to have a performer. like Silverman delivering that monologue that is, you know, she, she's a very natural offhand type of presence on screen, you know, it doesn't feel, like she's not the type of performer that it's ever going to feel like the big monologue that like allows a character to have a realization. And that would totally ruin the movie if that was the vibe. Yes. Because that's not the type of movie.

Or if her emotions are any bigger than they are. Like, she delivers it really, really steady. And, like, with that kind of deadpan that is devastating. Like, she only really raises her voice to be, like, snarky a little bit. You know what I mean? Where she's just, like, what a fucking obvious move, like, that kind of thing. Right. Yeah.

The thing about, like, you're just looking for the right move in this situation. Yeah. You know, that's what her hesitancy is when it's, like, the right thing to do if she's unhappy is to leave South Brogan. Yeah. Or to figure out what will make her happy, you know what I mean? Without an impetus, right, right. Or to have a conversation with him that she's not happy. Or to understand that whatever move she make might not necessarily be the right one.

You know what I mean? And from Sarah Silverman's perspective, she's like, yeah, maybe I haven't been like, you know, happy every day of my life with my husband. But you sort of, you stick it out. And, of course, the way that she, you know, acts out in this way. because she just, you know, she relapses into her, into her booze addiction, which is, you know, her own cross to bear. So I think this movie takes an interesting tack in that way, where it comes close to doing a thing that I find really annoying, which is this idea that, like, domesticity equals, like, death. Like, this idea that, like, uh-oh, they're sitting on the couch together. They're watching the boob tube.

Like, clearly the passion has gone out of their relationship, time to find something new and exciting or whatever. And it doesn't quite make it quite so pat. And but like, I do find it, I welcome the fact that the idea that Sarah Silverman is, you know, sort of contemplates cheating on her husband and doesn't. like loves him and he loves her and they have their own, you know, giant box of issues and baby chickens to deal with by the end of the movie. But you know what I mean? Where it's just like, I think it's too easy to just be like, well, things got too domestic with Lou, so she had to leave Lou.

And then things got too domestic with Daniel and she had to leave Daniel. Yeah, it doesn't, I don't think it boils down. to that, though. It's not the... Thankfully, it doesn't. Yeah. Right, because you also get the sense, well, if that was the problem, then they could just also keep going at that

for forever. You know, there's something a little bit more fundamental that's unfulfilled about her. And it doesn't feel... They don't have... It's interesting because they don't have a perfect relationship, but it's not like he's

a bad... He's certainly not a bad guy, but it's like, this movie at least has the bravery to be honest about, you know, human adult relationships. That it's like, he can be wounded and petulant and he can have annoying behaviors like the shower water thing. Oh, we're talking about Rogan. Yes. The thing that the, the Rogan moment where I feel the most angry at him is when they're actually at dinner on their anniversary. And she's like, Like, you know, why aren't we talking about anything? And he says, I'm not going to say something just for the sake of us having a conversation. Fuck you. You know what I mean? It's just like, that to me, I would be furious. Well, he's trying to package it in this, like, super nice way that makes it worse.

That he's like, yeah, well, we can just be great and not. Yeah, we can just talk and not talk and, you know, enjoy, you know, soup and snoopies. Yeah. That is theoretically true, but also you, like, saying that in a way to pat yourself on the back makes it not true. Maybe marriage is about saying something just for the sake of us having a conversation. Maybe that, Lou, you know what I mean? Maybe you do on this occasion of your anniversary, just like, have a conversation. Just talk about stuff.

Maybe he could be a little more interested in what she has to say. I don't know. And again, I don't want to take the easy route about, like, interpreting all of these, you know, good qualities that he has as secretly bad qualities, where it's just like, ugh, this guy always cooking chicken in the house. What a fucking asshole. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of a thing. Doesn't he know that she hates? Seth Rogen can cook in his underwear in my house any day of the week.

Okay. We've reached the point. We've reached the point. The horny monster has checked in Has checked into the conversation He does also have legit bad qualities That pouring water on her while she's in the shower thing Is beyond the pale to me

Do you think so? Oh, that's interesting So childish and obnoxious If I... And also that he uses it as a weapon at the end That he's like, I've been doing this all along And C, you're no fun Okay, A, if you find out that she's leaving you to be with another guy,

you get to deploy one of your weapons. That is a rule that I feel like I'm okay with. And secondly, the thing he said about, like, I was going to tell you when you were 80, and I thought you'd think it was funny. It's that he thinks she would eventually find it funny. But their sense of humor is so weird. Why wouldn't he think that?

You know what I mean? Yeah, but he's also like, well, I want to be with a person that thinks it's funny. okay that no I think at that point no I don't think that's what he's saying I really don't because like their shared sense of humor already sort of like like communicates that I think what he's saying at the end is like I wanted to be with somebody who would have been here when we were 80 like that's what I think he's saying oh I don't think that's what he's saying at all I don't know about that I think he's saying I want someone who thinks that it's funny yes pour water on me in the

shower. That's so funny. They do the thing where they talk about... But he is generally a good guy. Their love language is murder threats. You know what I mean? They're two fucking weirdos. I don't know. That to me was charming. Charming.

Not at all. Not at all. All right. All right. Whatever. But he is a very charming guy. Seth Rogen, perfectly cast in this role. Maybe we're sort of realizing why this movie ultimately didn't click with people. With, like, the two of us, like, two people who like... possible to get two people who genuinely love this movie and we're just like, shut up. Shut up my version of liking this movie is better than your version of liking this movie.

But our version of liking this movie is effectively the same version. We just have different perspectives on... Which is what makes it a good movie, but it's also sort of, it makes it challenging to find consensus on this movie. Well, it's certainly, I think, why it's a successful movie in terms of it achieves what I think Sarah Polly is going after. And I think, you know, it's not just, you know, people will, this is what I think this movie achieves so well. It's not just that a character, you don't see this type of internal character struggle in this type of drama because, you know, the audience thinks that the character is a monster for, you know, trying to figure out their own stuff and realizing I can't figure out that stuff while I. I'm in this relationship. Yeah.

It's also that like that's a very, you know, that that's like kind of lost to the breeze, you know, how do you place a structure on that? How do you tell a story that isn't, that can like have all those nuances, like, have that character going through that struggle, but also still be, you know, an A, B, and C story. Yeah. And I think Sarah Polly pulls that off so very well, especially in just like the final moment that we've talked about, the, like, elliptical nature of this movie, I think that is a way into having this kind of arcless character journey still feel like a complete movie, you know,

and it's not this meandering movie. Like, this is a very confidently made movie. So, let's pull back for a second and talk about the Sarah Polly thing, because it's the first time we've really been able to do such a thing. So, um, this is, she's born in Toronto, like, right there in Toronto. We'll talk about her sort of upbringing in a second. I'll put the pin in that because obviously she has her documentary about her family. Um, but she's a child actor. She's in, um, uh, the adventures of, uh, of Baron Munkhausen, and she's in, um, Adam McGoyan's, uh, Exotica in 1994. I genuinely don't know

what role she played in Exotica, but that's really interesting. She is the titular Ramona Quimby in the Ramona Quimby TV movie that I remember watching

and don't remember exactly whether it was it ever made it to like actual theaters or whatever. I just remember it being like a TV thing. But then also

her big breakthrough obviously is Road to Avonle, which if you had the Disney Channel in the early 1990s, as I did, and were kind of a little cryptoqueer like I was, you watched Road to Avonlea, and she was cool. She was like, she was the, you know, the one who was sent to live with this, you know, Prince Edward Island family because her father was kind of a scoundrel. I feel like there was some sort of scandal that, like, she had to be, like, sent to town where, like, her father went to jail for, like, bank fraud or something like that.

And she has to, you know, she's under the care of her, like, stern great aunt or whatever. And she lives with, you know, among her cousins. And it's all very, it's like Canadian. It's not quite Canadian little house on the prairie, but it's not not that. And I don't know. She was great. She was great. So then everything they're after.

When she shows up in the sweetheart after, when she shows up and go, you know what I mean? Like when her acting career sort of moves into that kind of, you know, young adults, teen sort of era, then I'm just like, yeah, it's fucking Sarah Polly from Avonlea guys. And people are like, what are you talking about, you fucking little queerbo? And it's just like, okay, that's when they call you a gay lord is when you talk about loving. Or a queer mo, which apparently is. it's a thing you just said queer mo i said queer bo did that was that never a thing what's a queer bow it's just the add little suffixes to fucking queer like i don't know people just you know people it's all different ways to call children faggots like it's just a thing um anyway so

she's got this acting career i first of all as a number one world's number one fan of go um i fucking love sarah polly and go i think she's really really she's just the fucking coolest. The last scene of Go, where it's her, Katie Holmes, and Nathan Bexton in the car, and the car is decked out

in Christmas lights, and Nathan Bexton just goes like, so, what are we doing for New Year's? Because Christmas was spent, with like half of them nearly dying at this rave or whatever. It's so fucking cool.

I love that movie so much. But then sort of the rolls kind of dry up, and you're sort of like, oh, I guess. Like, she's in the Dawn of the Dead remake,

the Zach Snyder, Don of the Dead remake. And like, that's really cool. And it seemed for a second, like maybe that was going to be a road for her was like, um,

like horror movies. She's in Splice. She's in, you know... Never seen Splice. Splice is so fucked up. Splice is kind of worth it. If you ever want to see,

um, Adrian Brody have sex with the, um, teenage, weird little you know science baby creature that he created.

Yes. It's deeply, deeply unsettling and kind of amazing. So, but then it's just like, oh, what happened to Sarah Polly?

And it's like, oh, she emerges then in 2007 with away from her. Which she wrote the It's based on an Alice Monroe, a book, novella, something like that.

Short story, that's what it was. But she writes the screenplay adaptation, she directs it, Julie Christie, Gordon Pinsent, and it's about this older couple, the wife of whom is going through Alzheimer's disease and sort of progressing through Alzheimer's disease and has to be moved into a memory care facility and sort of what that, you know, the impact that has on this couple's relationship. And it's, I don't know what you think of it, but like I was definitely one of my favorite movies of that year. I thought it was really beautiful, really well done. Julie Christie gets an Oscar nomination for it, her first nomination in 10 years.

And it seemed for a moment, for more than a moment, I think, that she might win her second Oscar. for that. It definitely did. This was also the awards year that was happening during a writer's strike. Yes, that's right. Yeah, the Golden Globes were held on a soundstage, like an episode of Access Hollywood or whatever, right? Basically a press release, as was SAG, I believe. That could be true as well. Yeah, and then it was done by the Oscars. But It's hard to, I mean, we can imagine, and I'm certain, I'm sure we've talked about various scenarios before of what happens to that year and certain winners if you have, you know, televised award shows. So that movie ends up, it's on the NBR list for top independent films. The Los Angeles Film Critics Association gives her a new generation award, gives Sarah Polly a new generation award, a New York Film Critic Circle, gives her best first film.

And she gets a Writers Guild nomination, and yet, or she wins the Writers Guild Award for best... I thought she got an Oscar nomination, too. Well, she does, but this is sort of what I'm leading up to a little bit is, I think leading up to those Oscar nominations, I was like, I don't think it's going to happen. You know what I mean? It was like, she was right on the edge, and she gets it, and I remember being so elated that it actually happened, because it seemed like it was going to be one of those classic sort of like, only one nomination just for the actress. like, you know, still Alice kind of a thing. Still Alice, obviously, coming later, but having a lot of very similar thematic ties

to away from her. So, and then five years pass before Take This Waltz comes along, which is one of those things where, like, you ever want me to get angry, talk about how women directors have their breakthrough movies, and then don't get to follow them up for five fucking years, whatever.

But, and then this is... an original screenplay, which is the only time in her four movies that she's done an original, like, narrative screenplay for a fictional film. And it's, I just think it's, it's just so really well done. But so let's pull back from, from just take this waltz, though. You look at the character that Michelle Williams plays in this. And then you look at, Stories We Tell, which comes out a year later, it's sort of a similar thing. I think it plays festivals in 2012 and then is part of the, you know, a 2013 sort of release year. Now, Stories We Tell is a documentary she makes about her own family, her own mother, and the sort of realization that Sarah has after her mother dies and is sort of like going through her things and sort of talking to our family about this, like, this sort of, like, thing that everybody we knew, but nobody really talked about super, you know, at length.

They would sort of make jokes about it, but this idea that Sarah's father, the man who raised her, wasn't her biological father. And so Sarah is making a movie where she sort of investigates this. And one of the really, really kind of fascinating things is you find out at the end of the movie that some of this footage that you think is documentary, or like, it was old, like, you know, real footage, is actually recreation. So it's a really sort of interesting, again, it's called stories we tell. So it's very much... It's her masterpiece. It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. But it's enough... As much as it's a personal story about

hers and, like, it goes into, like, deep painful memory of her own family, it's also kind of about how families tell stories the way. And it doesn't feel painful. Like, I under, you're, what you're saying is right in the fact. that these are sort of, you know, stories that I imagine are sort of unearthing some very sort of raw motions. But the movie does not feel, does not feel like it is wallowing in these people's pain. Like these, you know, they get to sort of, you know, talk and be honest. And the interactions she has with the father who raised her in the movie are really, really quite beautiful. And she speaks with such clarity.

But it is, again, a movie that centers around a female character who is, who, you know, is unfaithful, right? And is somebody who, you know, you're challenging your audience a little bit to be like, get past the part where she's unfaithful, get past the part where, you know, she has an affair. And it was that they were like part of, she was, it was like a little acting group, right? Like, it was one of her co-stars from her acting group or whatever. And, like, get past that part and get to, like, what's fascinating about this life that her mother had and that her father had and that her, you know, biological father had. And all of, you know, it's not dissimilar to take this waltz in that way. And I like that. And again, you move ahead and you look at something like certain women, which is obviously another adaptation.

but it is another, you know... You mean women talking? What did I say? Certain women. I did not mean certain women. It's the Michelle of it that is getting to me. Women talking, which is another... Women talking could have been called...

Women are talking. Women talking could have been called stories we tell, and stories we tell could have been called women talking. But anyway, but it's another story about how... you know, the ways in which something, you know, that the person telling the story changes what's happening, the ways in which, like, your perspective on, you know, who's, you know, whose, you know, whose perspective you're in changes your interpretation of what's going on. The thing about women talking that's so interesting is this idea that, like, everybody's on the

women's side, but there is no women's side. It's multiple sides, right? It's within the women, there are multiple different, you know, angles on what we should be doing and how we should be reacting. Anyway, that's all a long, long-winded way of me to say that, like, Sarah Polly's, you know, filmography is something we should talk about more often as a very cohesive and, you know, it's just so impressive. She wins the Oscar for women talking. Thank God that she's an Oscar winner. I think it's such a cosmic justice, and it only kind of happens because it's one of those years where, like, all of the heaviest hitters and Best Picture were in original screenplay.

But, like, whatever it took, whatever it takes. I mean, being a previous Oscar nominee, being someone that everybody is, or, you know, a large portion of the Academy is very familiar with, helped. And I think that was a movie that established itself. very early on in the season. That certainly helped. I'm so happy she's an Oscar winner too. I love her as a filmmaker.

She's incredibly hard to pin down in what is, like, her stamp because it's like, obviously she's an actress, she's a director, she's an author, her memoir, run towards the danger is incredible. People should read it. But, like, everything feels still so distinctly hers. Every, you know, movie she's directed is incredibly different from the last, and that's always exciting. And sometimes it just takes either five or ten years in between for her to make it. Well, one of those gaps is because she had that injury and nearly died.

And she also, in between, I believe, didn't she work on that alias Grace show, or am I making that up? I might be making that up. I think that was around the time of her injury, and I think that's one of the thing. Because she was also signed on to do little women, like, right when her injury haven't. Right. Explain me. Remind me the circumstances of her injury again. She, she, she hit, something fell on her head, right?

Yes. In, in what context? I forget the, the full context, but she had, she basically received a concussion and then had a condition that is like. Like on a film set or like in her private life? in her private life, I believe. Though Terry Gilliam did almost kill her on Barrowman-Causen, as she talks about in her memoir. We are not saying that Terry Gilliam found her again in 20... Terry Gilliam, not a good guy.

Not sure if you've heard. No, this was effectively a head injury that developed into something much, much worse that made her have debilitating pain for... years and years. One thing I should say is, and I'm not sure when this comes out in relation to Emmy nominations, I think this comes out before. She's got a pretty decent shot about getting an Emmy nomination for her guest-starring role on the studio, and I could not.

She's maybe the thing I'm rooting for, the hardest, that she gets nominated for an Emmy for that. She's in the second episode, she's playing herself, Seth Rogen. obviously is the star of that show, but also, you know, the creative force behind that show. And I guess this is a very Emmy's episode because Polly, Rogan, I'm sure Sarah Silverman has some type of comic special. Well, Luke Kirby, RIP to Etowal, because he's in that Amy Sherman Palladino ballet show, Aitual, which just got canceled.

And yeah, Michelle Williams is probably a frontrunner or one of, to frontrunners for Best Actress in a Limited Series for Dying for Sex, which is really, really great. And speaking of Michelle Williams. Oh, yeah. So here's the thing, guys. I keep for, not forgetting, we're all very busy. These six-timers, we currently have, what did I say, 20 people, maybe more, 40 people?

I think it's 40 people who are like on the verge of having a six-timers quick. And we missed it last week when it was Shirley McLean's six-timers, and we'll get to Shirley soon enough. And we nearly missed it with Michelle Williams. And poor Chris, I'm going to have to, like, take him out to dinner next time I see him and, like, pay for it. Because Chris had to wait, like, 45 minutes while I whipped up a six-timers quiz for Michelle Williams. But I did it, and we're ready. And Chris, this is our sixth Michelle Williams film. film. Whenever we reach the sixth movie of anybody, of any actor, they are in our six-timers club,

and I write up a little quiz to give to Chris. So, Chris, you want to remind our listeners what six movies, Michelle has been in? If you don't have it in front of you, I think I can get it. It's take this waltz. It is. Certain women. Certain women. Shutter Island. Yep. Um, uh, Wonderstruck? Yes. That's five. Yes. And then two movies where she's got really small roles.

Oh, so that was four. Yes, those were four. The station agent. Station agent, and I'm guessing it's going to be early as well. Even earlier than that. Pre-Dawson's Creek. Pre-Dawson's Creek. Oh, a thousand acres.

A thousand acres. A thousand acres loves showing up on every... Where she plays one of... It's one of Lange's daughters, right? Conceivable. Yes. Okay. So, yes, your answers to these questions will be one or more of those six movies.

The station agent, a thousand acres, Shutter Island, Wonderstruck, certain women, take this waltz. Without further ado... How many of those does she die yet? Well, that's a great question. Shutter Island... Well, she's dead before the movie begins. But...

Shutter Island. Island, Wonderstruck. Yeah, she's going strong at the end of certain women. All right. First question, which of those movies is the longest? Shutter Island. By a good margin, 139 minutes. Which is the shortest?

Probably the station agent. By a decent margin, 90 minutes. Best Rotten Tomatoes score. The station agent. 94% on Rotten Tomatoes. Yes. Worst Rotten Tomatoes score. Wanderstruck

No Shutter Island No Okay A thousand acres A thousand acres Remember critics were mean mean mean mean mean to a thousand acres 24%

All right biggest box office domestic Shutter Island Shutter Island 128 million Lowest box office domestic total Take this waltz No Or Wonderstruck technically Because Amazon I don't think

reported box office. Wonderstruck technically has 1.06 million domestic, which just slightly lower than certain women's 1.08 million. What is Take This Waltz? Take This Waltz domestically is 1.2. Oh, there you go. So there we go. Which three of those movies were written by their directors? Take This Waltz, station agent, and certain women. Yes, very good. Which two. Two movies were written by Oscar winners. Take the Swaltz. Yes. And the station agent.

Yes, Tom McCarthy. Yes. Which three movies were released in October of their release year. Certain women. Yes. Station agent. Yes. And a thousand acres.

No. Not Take This Waltz, not Shutter Island. So that makes it Wonderstruck. Wonderstruck, yes. I think that was before October. Which movie was released in Pice's season? Shutter Island. Shutter Island, February, yes.

Which movie has the same composer as Little Falkers and Hedwig and the Angry Inch? Uh, Wonderstruck? No. Carter Burwell? No. I mean, Headwig would be Steven Trask. It is Stephen Trask. Which I guess would be...

Stephen Trask doing the score for Little Falkers is maybe my favorite little tidbit about this whole thing. Is that certain women? No. Is that the station agent? It is the station agent, yes. Okay. Which two of these movies had the same composer as drive-away dolls? Or sorry, which one movie had the same composer's drive-away dolls?

Is that Wanderthruck? Carter Burwell. Yes, for Wanderstruck, yes. Of course, Carter Burwell and any Cohen, any Cohen is a goal. Which movie has the same cinematographer as Beloved? Who did that score?

I'm going to guess that's a thousand acres because they're both from the 90s. It is a thousand acres. Tak Fuji-Moto did the cinematography for both Beloved and a thousand acres. Which movie has the same cinematographer as Nixon? That's Robert Richardson, I thought.

No. Didn't he usually were? Is that Cheddar Island then? It is Shutter Island. It is Robert Richardson. Yes, you are correct. Which two movies played both Sundance and Toronto? Certain women. Yes. And take this waltz? No, did not play Sundance. The station agent? Yes, the station agent. Which movie was filmed at locations in Illinois and California? Illinois and California. That sounds to me like, Shutter Island?

No. The station agent? No. Station 8 was in New Jersey, I believe. A thousand acres. A thousand acres, yes. Which of these movies, which is the only one of these movies that was a Golden Globe nominee? Not this, not certain women, not Wonderstruck.

Maybe the score was nominated for, uh, oh, the station agent. No. Wow. Um. Oh, no, it was a thousand acres. Jessica Lang. Yes, Jessica Lang was nominated. Is it wrong to look at Lang?

Is it wrong to nominate? To look at a little Lang. Yeah. Which of these movies was a SAG Award nominee? It was a multiple SAG Award nominee, in fact. What that would be? Oh, it was Station Agent. Three SAG nominations for Patricia Clarkson, Peter Dinklidge, and its wonderful cast.

Which of these movies was a National Border Review top 10 movie? Station Agent. No. That was probably like top 10 Indies. Yes, Shutter Island was. Which of these movies was the only one that was a Critics Choice nominee? In any category. In any category.

Wonderstruck. Wonderstruck. Do you remember for who? Young performer. Yes, Millison Simmons. Very good. All right. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include female filmmaker, sibling relationship, and seduction?

Take the swaltz. No. Okay. Wanderstruck? No? No, that's about children. Thousand acres? A thousand acres.

Jocelyn Morehouse, female filmmaker. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include watching a movie and close a movie? up on lips. Take this waltz. They do go to the movies? It's not take this waltz, that they do go to the movies. I'm mad and take this waltz

that we don't see what movie they go to see, by the way. It's on the, it's mom and uncle. Yeah, it's on the movie. Oh, okay. I missed it then. Can't be a thousand acres. Just gave it to me.

Is it station agent? It's Wonderstruck, in fact. There you go. All right, which two movies feature stars of We Don't Live Here Anymore? Laura Dern is in certain women. Yes. And Ruffalo is in Shutter Island. Yes, and which two movies feature stars of a single man?

Um, Furthold. I mean, Julian Moore is in Wonderstruck. Yes. Nicholas Hulton. Who else is in a single man besides those two? Oh, Matthew Good. Who I'm going to guess is in Shutter Island? No, it's not that.

But I will say it's somebody you're forgetting was in one of these six movies. it's somebody who's kind of easy yes oh Colin Firth's in a thousand acres he is in a thousand acres right nobody remembers that all right that's my somewhat truncated six timers quiz for Michelle Williams sorry girl I love Michelle Williams so much I do think she's one of the greats I wonder if I had nominated her this year in my little Microsoft Word document let me pull this up I know I definitely put Silverman on my list this would have been the 2012 awards. Certainly, so this is the thing. It gets, take this while it gets a, what did I say on on Rotten Tomatoes? It gets like a 79% or something like that. But it's kind of a soft. It's one of those ones that like 79% Rotten Tomatoes, 68 Metacritic, which is kind of the spot you don't want to be in. It's kind of the no man's land for award season because it's like the enthusiasm is not there from critics, right? It's, it's, it's, it's, It's, you know, maybe a little divisive.

It is maybe a little, in this case, I think, you know, the divisiveness is the thing. So, Best Actress, 2012. My nominees were, I did not have Michelle Williams. You know what? I should have. I'm going to fix this at some point. I have Emmanuel Riva, Kirsten, Emmanuel Lever for Moore, Kirsten Dunst for Bachelorette, Jennifer Lawrence for Silver Linings Playbook, Jessica Chastain for,

zero dark 30 and ameatsi coronaldi for eva du vernay is middle of nowhere it's a good ballot it is a good ballot i still feel like i would put michel up ahead over chastain who i think is really good and then you also have kira nightly for anna carrenina and you also have maloney linsky for hello i must be going and you have rachel vice for the deep blue sea rachel vice from deep lucy would absolutely be on mine yeah um graderig for damsels's lind distress, Mary Elizabeth Winston for Smashed, Emily Blunt for your sister's sister, Naomi Watts for The Impossible, Ari Greinerfer for a good time call, who I think is so fucking funny in that movie, such an underrated comedy. Maybe one of the last, like, really good theatrical, like,

you know, mainstream theatrical comedies. Francis Haw opened in 2013, correct? It did, it did. Right. Festival premiere, 2012. I definitely feel like I should have Michelle. in that lineup. And then I have Sarah Silverman in my supporting actress alongside, God, this is such a, this is such a, I'm a lunatic set of nominees, Brit Marling in the sound of my voice, Sarah Silverman and take this waltz, Salma Hayek and Savages, Lorraine Toussaint in middle of nowhere, and Anne Dowd and Compliance. Someone stopped this man. And then my like runners-up are like Jennifer Ely in Zero Dark 30, Judy Dench and Skyfall. Uh, fucking, who else do I have there? Those are, like, that's basically Amy Adams and the Master, who I did think was very good, even though I was not a huge fan of The Master. I want to talk briefly about Seth Rogan, who I think is so good in this movie.

Tremendous. Is in general a very underrated actor, I think across the board. I think there are certain movies where he's been so good. I think he's so underrated in Steve Jobs. I really do hope he gets an Emmy nomination for the studio where he's just really, really funny. I think that shows really funny, and I think he's really, you know, really handling that. This was an interesting time for him where he's just starting to sort of, he had already sort of started moving into, you know, writing and producing. Obviously, Superbad was a good

four or five years earlier by this point. But 2011 was the year of the Green Hornet, which was definitely a Hollywood and maybe the filmmaking audience sort of slaps him back a little bit. And is like, maybe not this, maybe not this way, where he writes and stars in this superhero movie The Green Hornet, where he plays the titular character, and everybody kind of en masse was just like, no, not that. But that same year, he co-produces 50-50, which I don't, I'm not sure whether you like that movie. He's a supporting role on that. But, like, as a co-producer, like, it gets a golden globe. nomination for best musical or comedy. It gets an Indie Spirits nomination for Best Feature. And in general, I think, is a pretty solid movie. And, you know, obviously that is a sort of mid-budget

kind of a movie that, like, of course, gets squeezed. You know what I mean? Like, that is the kind of movie that really does get squeezed. You really aren't seeing that thing. That kind of thing in theaters too much. Which is too bad because I think that's a really good sort of level for him. He's somebody I really do root for in a way, which is kind of funny because I think for a while there was this sort of like instinctual pushback against him as if sort of he'd been given too much, that he had sort of, you know, achieved too much maybe on. And obviously, I'm not the biggest. And there's a lot of credits very fast, too. So a certain level of overexposure, you can understand why people would feel that way. Well, and also there's that era where it's like,

him and all his buddies doing like hangout comedies but hang out comedies that are like apocalyptic you know big effectsy things like this is the end or animated movies like sausage party or whatever and it's like him and seagull and james franco and right before it's like they're kind of pushing the limits of this with the audience too like you have funny people which is a gatsby riff that's like two and a half hours long it's more of a drama than anything. You have Observe and Report, which is very, very caustic. Yes. I like the fact, by the way, that both Rogan and Jason Siegel have comedies on Apple TV Plus that are probably going to get nominated for the Emmy. Like, good for the both of them. Good for freaks and geeks. Good for, what was his name? Ken, I want to say. Good for those guys. I know Jason Seagel was Nick. Did you watch Freaks and Geeks? Were you a Freaks and Geeks person? I've seen Freaks and Geeks. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people who say they were freaks and geeks people, but... That is true. I didn't watch it when it was on, but I watched it, like, I was an early adopter of the DVD box set, if that makes sense? Like, because that DVD box set was, like, around for a while.

Like, you understand people who have wanted to claim freaks and geeks, but it's like most of us caught that on DVD. No, the people who get to claim credit for freaks and geeks are like your Alan Seppin Walls. The people who are actually reviewing TV back in 1999, who like... championed it or whatever. Everybody else is you're like, yeah, you were like nine when, you know, when Freaks and Geeks came out. Like I'm, you know, whatever. Um, listen, we accept everybody. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a fine, proud fraternity of people. Take this waltz is a very smart choice, I would say, for Seth Rogen at this point to do, yes, uh, an independently budgeted drama that he is perfect for. Yes. And is perfect for the tone of. Yes. even if, you know, I guess it's just smart on Sarah Polly for seeing how he could be used. Because I think the temperature of Seth Rogen that we have now, he's much more comfortable in this register than the, you know, observant report. Yes. Yes. I think that's true. Observing report was tough. I'm glad that sort of things didn't go in that direction.

I think Observe and Report is one of those movies that I think took a lot of its gravitas from its sort of, it was the movie that dared to like, you know, make your main character into a toxic male sort of sexual assault or whatever. And it's like, yeah, like, congratulations. Like, I'm not quite sure exactly like what kind of like pat on the head you really want for me there. But I don't know. I want to dip into Luke Kirby for a second who is like, I say Canadian royalty, but like it is really kind of, you know, he really kind of is

and that like he's just in a lot of things. He was in that show Slings and Arrows, which I feel like is, you know, a skeleton key for a lot of Canadian performers. It was a, I want to say, CBC, but I don't swear me to it, but a Canadian TV show about a a group of people who

do Shakespearean theater at a fictional sort of like Shakespeare Festival that is of course supposed to be like the Stratford Festival. But it's him, Rachel McAdams is in it. A few other sort of like recognizable faces are in it, but he was

on that one. And then he shows up in a lot of movies where it's like you go back, and you're like, oh, he's in Halloween Resurrection. He's in Shattered Glass. He's in, he was in that movie Lost in Delirious, which was the Piper Parabo, Jessica Paray, Misha Barton, like girls' boarding school movie that I believe was like one of those sort of like early queer, because there was the other one was like who was lean aheady in someone, and I can't remember what the title of that one is. But you know what I mean?

There was like this cadre of just sort of, you know, cool lesbian movies from the late 90s, early aughts. He's also the star of that movie Mambo Italiano. Remember that one where it's like... Movie that only exists as a title. Movie that it only exists as a title, but is like, oh, he's gay, but his family's Italian? Like that kind of a thing. That's essentially the plot of Mabo Italiano. And then recently, he's like, I believe he's won, at least one Emmy, and has been nominated a bunch of times for playing Lenny Bruce on Marvelous Mrs. Maisel for the whole run of that show.

And now, like I said, he's on this other Amy Sherman Pallino show called It Twal that was literally just canceled yesterday as we are recording this, or like Friday, I think. So... I think he's also quite good in this movie. I think he's exactly what this movie calls for. I think he keeps his character just on the side of not giving you too much, because we can't know too much about this character. The whole idea is that he has to remain on some level.

He can only be just, you know, certain things for her, because part of it is that, like, she ultimately sort of goes for him, while knowing kind of limited you know what I mean like limited things about him and yet like he's incredibly beguiling and is incredibly um I mean I guess given credit for being handsome but like fuck he's really handsome so good for him um one thing I wrote down I love his performance I mean uh I think it's there's a little bit of the Sarah Polly non-judgmentalness as a direct or at least the way she presents her characters to the audience too

because and paired with the performance being so good maybe I'm like yeah he's such an obvious fuck boy at this point because I've seen this movie half a dozen times because I love it but the first time you see it you maybe don't really catch that

and she's not really the type of person who's going to throw like fuck boy he's a fuck boy judgment at him right so you know, as a director, she's not going to reduce her characters down that much to give us those, like, clues that we shouldn't like him. And I don't think she thinks we shouldn't like him while, you know, gives us truths to make it so that he is that. I think that's exactly right. I think that's exactly right.

Yeah, I think he's really good. Again, you know, very much indicative of the way that this show just sort of allows this story to exist without a ton of judgment. which again is why it's so funny that like maybe the thing that like took it down in you know within the the community of people who actually watched it was people who are like no I want to bring my judgment to this like why aren't you know I'm going to try really hard to bring my sense of judgment to this I jotted down this movie was nominated so you would imagine you're like okay this movie didn't make it and you know the American award season too much it just it doesn't get beyond just like the slightest bit of foot in the door even though I played Toronto. But you're like, but it's Sarah Polly. Clearly this movie is going to clean up at the Genie Awards, which are the Canadian Movie Awards. Think again, only two Genie Award nominations, one for Michelle Williams and one for the makeup.

This is the year that, like, the Canadian movie awards are dominated by David Cronenberg's A Dangerous Method. And Monsieur Lazare, which was the Oscar-nominated movie from Quebec that year. And then Michelle Williams goes and gets beat for Best Actress by Vanessa Paradis, who is in Jean-Marc Valet's Café de Flore and a movie I have not seen, but obviously the late great Jean-Marcvelet is a filmmaker I know. And then, all right, okay, well, maybe not Canada, but surely the Alliance of Women Film Journalists will be here for us because it's Sarah Polly. But no, of course, that is the year of Zero Dark 30. So Catherine Bigelow wins best woman director for Zero Dark 30, and Sarah Polly goes home empty-handed. Sarah Polly would have her day, but not...

And she may again. And she may again, hopefully. I am, again, the day they announce the next Sarah Polly project, I will be hooting and hollering and whooping up a storm. Anything you have on your notes, I'm going to dip into my notes in a second. We didn't really talk about the verbal sex scene, because that scene is kind of a sex scene. I mean, it's so well played by both performers, but I think the hottest thing about it is that they laugh afterwards. Yes, yes.

What else do I have? Seth Rogen cooking in his underwear, wrote down when they said Gaylord. Oh, Luke Kirby shows up at the gym and watches their water robin's house. He's not even in gym clothes. I know. What are you doing there, creep? Like, yes. That's his, that's my least favorite moment.

Everybody in this movie gets like one moment where I'm just like, I don't like what you're doing. And that is definitely his for me. The kitchen window where they have their little table, but then you can also sit outside and you're on opposite sides of the table is a motif in this movie that I think works so well. Yeah. Especially the scene where there's music inside. the house, but there's not music outside the house. And they're having this conversation. They can communicate to each other.

Yeah. One hears music, and the other doesn't. I think that's such a very evocative sight and sound for the audience at the point of this relationship that I think if viewers are willing to put back their judgment

a little bit, and I think you just listen to what the film is telling you. It's telling you that this is not a relationship that they should both be in. They are, even though they can be good for each other, they are not speaking the same language.

Beautiful movie. I love this movie. One of the things that I wrote down, I said, this movie hits the 95-minute mark. He says, there you are to her. They meet up again. They meet at the lighthouse. He says, there you are. Leonard Cohen kicks in on the soundtrack. I'm like,

well, movie's over. You know, I mean. It's just like, that's all the signs are there. You know what I mean? Of course, it has another half hour of much, much more complicating stuff, which I think is wonderful. But I was like, oh, it's Canadian law. Once Leonard Cohen hits in on the soundtrack, then we're done. But apparently

no, we're just Sarah Polly was like, no, I'm going to make a masterpiece. So there we go. This movie, I feel like, is on the same coin for me, and it's just probably that they were within a couple years of each other, but as placed beyond the pines for me, where it's just like,

these movies that you people didn't like. Missing the boat. I don't know. Take this while. It's a great movie. Okay. IMDB game. Chris, why don't you let our listeners know how we do? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints.

It does. All right, let's see if we can get this done before the rain comes, and I have to go haul out the garbage to the curb. All right, Chris, would you like to give first or guest first? Oh, give first. All right, hit me. So you and I both probably agree on our favorite performance in the women-talking ensemble. Women are talking.

That is one miss Judith Ivy. Fuck, yes. Judith Ivy, IMDB game. All right. No television. Is one of them certain women? Would you like to... I keep saying certain women.

Is one of them women talking? Why are you doing this, sir? I don't know. Incredibly different movies. I know, but it's because I have certain women on the... I literally spent 45 minutes trying to make a Michelle Williams quiz before this. And it entered my brain. Is it women talking?

Women talking is correct. Okay. Um... All right, so I believe, see, the thing about Judith Ivy is, she's just in a bunch of movies where she's, like, in the ensemble, and you're like, oh, right, that was Judith Ivy. It's like how, like, years later you watch National Ampoons Christmas Vacation, and you're like, that's been Diane Ladd this whole time.

The whole time, yes. I think one of those movies for Judith Ivy, though, was 28 days. 28 days is incorrect Fuck, okay Um Is she in like heartburn or something? Heartburn is my answer Well heartburn's incorrect

Okay Your years are 1997, 1999, and 2006 Okay, so nothing older than 97 They are three different genres 97 is the devil's advocate She plays his mother.

Correct, the devil's advocate. Okay, 99 and 06? 99 and 06. 99 and 06. 99 Judith Ivy. Is it a comedy? Neither are, well, I mean, maybe, no, there, that's not what she would say for these movies. These are both movies that I would believe that she could possibly be the first-billed woman in there and be, like, 12th build.

Right, right, right. So a lot of men in these movies. movies. And by that time, if she's playing Keanu's mother in 97, she's probably playing either the mother of a younger character or the wife of an older character. A young man. Looks like there are at least two women build above her in the 99 movie. All right. 99. Is it one of those like 1999 movies that you hear about when you're like 1999? Great year. When people really start to circle the well, you might hear about this movie. But it's not like idle hands or anything like that.

No. Okay. She's not in Spy Who Shagged. This movie is headlined by someone who would be nominated for their first Oscar this year. In 99. In 99. Would that be... Haley, Joel Osmint.

1999. Dunzel, Spacey, Farnsworth. Norton was the year before. Michael Clark Duncan? No. Jude Law? No. Ray Fines was not

nominated for the end of the affair. 1999, first Oscar nomination. Is it an actress who gets her first Oscar nomination? No. Okay, yeah, I didn't think so. Okay. Michael Cain, Jude Law, Haley Joel Osment, Michael Clark Duncan, Tom Cruise was not his first nomination.

Spacey is not his first nomination. Denzel is not his first nomination. Richard Farnsworth, it's not his first nomination. Who are the other two men? in this particular year in 99, why am I getting stuck? Some days I would say this person would have been my winner. Wow, you're not. Oh, Russell Crow in The Insider. Yes, is the headliner of this other 1999 movie.

Is it... That has a lot of men in it. Right. Is it Mystery Alaska? Mystery, comma, Alaska. All right. And then... Now, in 06, she is the first build woman. I would be willing to bet she does not have more than five lines of dialogue. Okay.

Is it an action movie? No. Is it a comedy? No. Is it a genre movie of any kind? No. So a regular drama. In 0.6.

No. Not a comedy, not a drama, and not animated, because you would have said. Correct. is it oh six so it's genre so it's not like horror or sci-fi or is it like a sports movie no because mystery alaska is a sports movie right and it's three very different genres and she already had a horror movie with the devil's ad but you're saying it's neither drama nor comedy is it a drama correct i mean you could say drama but like if you're going to the video store that doesn't exist there is a section of movie that this movie would be long in mystery

no thriller maybe some places would put it in drama maybe some places would put it in action but there is its own section of the video store for thriller no action drama um what type of movie that some people might think is an action movie or might think as a drama movie has a lot of men in it sports has a lot of men in it action drama it's pornography i don't know i just say i'll just it's a war movie oh okay war movies are action movies i see war movies are war movies are war movies Yeah, I suppose. Okay, nine, or two thousand, is she in flags of our fathers? Flags of our fathers. Jesus, all right.

Judith Ivy. It was harder for you to get the genre of war. Yes. Well, listen, that makes sense for me. I do not, you do not care for war movies. Okay. For you, I chose the, one of the movies that did a lot better at the Genie Awards than Take This Waltz did was a Dangerous Method. And one of the Genie Award winners for a Dangerous Movie.

method was Mr. Vigo Mortensen. So I am giving you Vigo Mortensen. Return of the King. Yes, Lord of the Rings return of the king. Do I think the best picture winner? Lord of the Rings. It's very possible that all three of them are there, but I'm just going to say that for now.

Green book. No, not Green Book. I think. think the Kronenberg will actually be Eastern Promises if there's a Kronenberg. It is Eastern Promises. Yeah, because he got an Oscar nomination for that. Sure did. Well, I'd just have to say his other Oscar nomination, Captain Fantastic.

It is Captain Fantastic. Yes, wow. All right. Captain Fantastic shows up for like Catherine Hahn or someone. That's wild. It's just like, what is this doing? Who watches this movie? You have three correct. You have one. wrong answer that means

it's not going to be another Lord of the Rings does he have another franchise it could be something where he's younger it could also be another Kronenberg and be history of violence

could be Hidalgo what if I said Hidalgo it's not going to be Hidalgo go. A history of violence. It's not a history of violence. All right. So you get the year. Your year for your missing movie is 2009.

Interesting. Because that is after the Oscar nomination for Eastern promises. What the hell is going on with him in 2009? It's the only movie he makes in 2009. Huh.

Is he still doing... I guess it could be... I don't think he's in Maps to the Stars. That's... No, that's 2014. So... Is it a... Is it another action movie?

It is not an action movie. Okay. So it's a drama? Yes. Or a thriller? Drama. Drama. In 2009, his only movie that year.

Yes. Is it a good drama? Can I, like, is this a well-received movie? Yes, on balance, yes. Okay. So not a. an inordinately well received. No. I mean, no, but yeah, I think it has its admirers for sure. Okay.

And it's memorable in a way. It's not like a forgotten movie. Right. Is it one of the ones he's naked in? Is that why it's memorable? I really don't think so. Okay. He has two movies he's naked in and is known for. It's true. Yeah. You really don't... Hang and dong left and right on this note for it. I mean, he lives for it. Is memorable for a scene or something? No, just like the concept of it, I think, has endured.

And it's sort of like, it's sort of shorthand for... A certain type of movie? Yeah, or just like a certain type of, like, Like, oh, this reminds me of this movie. Like, oh, like this, you know, whatever. If I say too much more, it'll give you too good of a clue. So there's a concept involved. Yeah, yes.

That it sort of embodies. It embodies a certain concept of what it's about. Certain type of drama. Is it a biopic? No. Is it a... Historical drama. No.

Okay. Contemporary, conceptual drama that is of a type. It's not even, I don't even necessarily think I would say contemporary because, like, it is, but it's like, what if contemporary was like this now? Oh. Oh, so it's like It's I wouldn't call it sci-fi, but like there's a There's some type of robots.

It's not robots, that's why I wouldn't call it sci-fi, but like it's... There's some type of technology. No, that's why I wouldn't call it sci-fi, but like, we are definitely like imagining forward. Dream sleep. No. I'm just, I'm, Avoiding saying specifically one specific word, because then I think it gets a little too easy.

But, like, it's not the version of the present that exists, but, like, it's the version of... Alternate history. Or alternate present? Yes. Yes. Which, it's not parallel universe. It's like, what if something happened? and then other things happened after that thing.

So time. It's like post-apocalyptic. Okay. Oh, it's the road. Yes. Do you see why I was sort of avoiding saying? Who's watching the road? Nobody's watching the road.

But, like, you know how, like, something. Who's searching for the road on IMDB? Well, something will happen, and people will be like, oh, God, like, we're, like, you know, two steps away from the road. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing, like, that's, it's. It's still relevant, I think, in that way. Plus the Cormac McCarthy of it all, I feel like. Like, it's definitely not a forgotten movie, by any way.

No. Yeah, I was trying to avoid saying post-apocalyptic because as that has happened, as soon as I said it, you got it. Right. All right. Well done. And that is our episode. If you want more of this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this at oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz and our Patreon at patreon.com.

slash this had Oscar buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Chris Vee File. That's Fee I. I am also on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. And you can subscribe to my Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at patreon.com slash DemiPod. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Mavius for their technical guidance and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify.

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