This Had Oscar Buzz - 348 – BPM

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

We close out Pride Month with one of our favorite queer films from the past decade, 2017’s BPM. From French director Robin Campillo, BPM follow a group of ACT UP activists during the height of the AIDS epidemic. With Campillo’s emotional and intuitive style of observation, the film shows the labors of political organization in all the warts … Continue reading "348 – BPM"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and French. Dick Pooh. It's not we can't have any of the labos, it's them that have been able to mobilize the media on the question of the treatment. Hello, we're going to be able to find out of God, I'm going to build a community

Hello and welcome to this head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that peed in the pool at least in the pool at waterobics. week on the sad auspahs, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Vile, and I'm here, as always, with, you know, I don't really even have a joke today. This is about queer love and queer solidarity, unless we're in fighting. Listen, I wanted to do. I just want to say, beaujue, bonjour, Chris. Uh, bon Jojo, uh, hi, happy pride. This is our pride episode. Happy pride, this is our pride episode. What other pride episodes have we done besides the movie Pride? I was trying to remember like back through the years. Did we do two Wang Fu last year? Let's see. Okay. June of 2024, we did do two Wong Fu last year. 2023, we did Pride.

2022, we did Gloria Bell. That was our 200th episode fell during Pride that year. Maybe this is a new tradition on the show. I'm going to retrofit Gloria Bell to fitting that tradition. What can we retrofit from the year before that? We did June 2021, Concussion, the prize winner of Defiance, Ohio, the shipping news, and Lucy in the Sky. Which one of those was our Pride episode? to see in the sky.

2020, June of 2020. See, here's the thing about Pride is it comes right after the May miniseries. So we have, like, completely forgotten like everything else. 2020 was Nurse Betty, the others, Lee Daniels, the Butler, and Proof. Oh, and Mother.

Mother, 100th episode. Oh, we ended our, yeah. Because the... Easy call. Easy call. The annual episodes have a tendency to shift as we have things like TIF episodes that are not real.

episodes may miniseries that have not been real episodes so yes um episode 350 coming in a few weeks in july june of 2019 we did rendition we did stonewall so stonewall was our uh boy was our pride episode that you're right scare quotes and of course we debuted during the film we debuted during pride month in 2018 with uh mona lisa smile the uh the uh the proudest of all. Canonically Pride Month. Canonically pride. We are canonically, so not only are we celebrating Pride, we are celebrating our seven-year anniversary this month. Wow. Mother-effer. We're going to have to have a 10-year anniversary at some point and plan that. Maybe that's when we'll do our live show. Yeah, we got three years to plan for it, so maybe it would happen. Maybe it'll happen if we have

three years to prepare. Yes, very possibly. get loud at where you're at that we could ever even figure out. We were trying to figure out geographically where would be the best location to do a live show. Where would you travel to? Where would you be willing to show up in person to watch us blather on about something? I don't know. I don't know. I look and see what blank checked is with the King Ralph thing. And I'm like, well, first of all, we'd never be able to pull that off. But like... Licensing fees, etc. Well, but like, what's the friend? Fraction. Like, what's the fraction of that that we'd be able to pull off? And you know what I think it should be. I've said it to you before. I've stand firm in this. You want it to be a big trivia. I want it to be a game show. The live show is a game show. I think that's true. I think that's a good component. I think we should blend that with something that has... Have you ever seen what Bobby and Lindsay do for the... This is, by the way,

This is hangout talk that we should be having on Patreon, but whatever. But do you see what, like, Bobby and Lindsay do for, like, the Who Weekly live shows where it's just sort of, like, a lot of, like, audiovisual stuff and, like, you know, clips and, you know, Photoshop stuff and whatever. Like, that also appeals to me as, like, a prelude to the game show. Yes, that, but in a game show format, that also sounds like a nightmare to put together. But, hey, like we said, we have three years. I have a passion for graphic design when it comes to trivia.

We do games here all this. the time. So it feels like what our identity already is, but it also feels like a way of making the live show experience unique to our... Twist my arm to make me come up with Oscar-themed trivia. Like, you know, that's... Like, don't threaten me with a good time. So, yes, would love to do that. I don't know. We're going to noodle it over, but, like, Gary's far and wide. Um, uh, hop on over. First of all, sign up for our Patreon and then comment on

in the comments there or just post BuzzFeed or whatever BuzzFeed Blue Sky messages to us. Send us emails. Put up smoke signals. I am barely there. Don't send me blue sky messages. Well, I can field blue sky messages.

We'll figure it out. We're also going to try and come up with a better apparatus for like feedback. I guess while we're airing all of our stuff, we're trying to put up website at some point. So Gary's, you will soon have more of a central hub for us. This is me

saying we're going to do it, so now we've got to fucking do it. Housekeeping. We have housekeeping on the Pride episode. What else do we... I mean... It does make sense. Our Pride episode, our anniversary month, we are sort of taking stock. We are re-centering. We are re-centering, we are taking stock. We are

doing an inventory of our what's left in our brains and as we do inventory of what's left of uh you know our rights our god no well this is the other thing is so we're recording this bpm episode on the day of like the no kings protests and whatnot so um it's and it's early on the day so we like do not know um what all has uh transpired this weekend but or what we might be showing up to later Listen, I have every bit of faith that it's just going to be people showing up en masse to protest this administration, and we are going to see the numbers that are on our side. You look at the map of where it's happening, and it's like, thank God, people are organizing. Everywhere. It truly is everywhere. And it's heartening. I will say, and it'll help give our politicians some backbone. It'll give them something to, you know, they can see visibly.

numbers that are on our side. We really are all over the place. We're really are all over the place. Nice. Happy Pride Columbus. So in addition to general there will also be gay times had by all.

Listen, we love gay times had by all. I am in a simmering gay rage at all times in our current climate. This movie I find very healing and necessary. I am grateful that we have this movie. The great thing about BPM, among the many great things about BPM, is it nourishes sort of multiple, multiple angles of, you know, gay activism, right? It's the, there's, it'll, it'll stoke your rage, it'll stoke your anger, it'll stoke your enthusiasm to get involved. It will also, as you say, like, it's also healing. It's also, like, there's, there is something to,

the way that it depicts community that I find to be incredibly comforting and um also comforting in its honesty because like queer infighting is not something that we see depicted often not that I want to be like hashtag representation yeah about this but I think you know when we talk about things like like queer movies, queer television, feeling sanitized for straight audiences. I think, you know,

some people, it's like, it comes down to just like gay sex in gay sex settings. Yes. But for me, I think some of what we lose out on and things like that is showing that, you know, maybe, gay and queer people are not a monolith and we don't always get along. We don't always see things high to eye. We have all different lived experience and expertise and that was an element

of pride too. Like there's a lot of that in pride in terms of like, you know, different POVs in terms of like how they should be, you know, operating. Even stuff like, you know, bros, which I think is, you know, not a perfect movie, but a movie that I enjoyed, but, you know, has that scene early on of them all just sort of like, you know, debating about like what, you know, what aspects of the queer, you know, experience should be highlighted and, and whatnot. So, yeah. If you spend any significant amount of time With a group of gay people of any significant size You will know that it is not a monolith It is not

And it's not just gay bitchiness That No Not everybody I have very significant gripes with gay people That go beyond bitchiness As do I Often our grives move in different directions.

Often. Which is fine. No, you and I disagree about tons of gay shit, and we are still, like, best friends. So, you know. Well, I think also it's just, it's not that we always, that we disagree. It's that we come at it from certain things. We're willing to not be bothered by different things. There's some things that I'm like, I think you're right, but I don't think you should let that bother you as much.

I think we come to our experiences with our own hang-ups and with our own sort of angles and with our own, you know, triggers and foibles and whatever. And that's beautiful. I don't know. I think it's beautiful. I also think in the current moment that we are living in the past, you know, a decade in which we have been living, the AIDS epidemic has proven to be such. a flashpoint for, or just, what am I trying to say, that we have so much to learn from the way people organized, the way people found community, the way people took care of each other. Yes.

Through what was happening in the time that this movie depicted and through organizations like Act Up, I would absolutely recommend Sarah Schulman's let the record show to any who has not read it in terms of looking for not only spiritual guidance, but education in how to organize lessons that were learned within the community, but also, you know, things we can take forward into the future. What you're talking about at that time and what you see depicted in a movie like BPM is a community, you know, sort of desperately trying to get the authority at the time, to not only pay attention to, you know, the AIDS epidemic, the AIDS crisis,

but also to respond, to be responsive to people's, you know, people's needs, people's fears, people's, you know, best interests in a way that feels that I imagine a lot of people in the wider, you know, population didn't have to feel that back then, but maybe do now when governments and, you know, institutions and corporations and whatever are increasingly, you know, unresponsive to the actual needs of people. And, you know, I think certainly one of the things that going through, you know, COVID did was sort of underline. this idea that, you know, there is a necessary benefit to not only like collective action, but to like looking out for each other and to, you know, caring for one another within a

community because you cannot always count on, you know, the government or the administrations the administrations, to do that, yeah. Right. It's like you see in this movie, there's a certain level of this movie that is instructive and, you know, maybe setting the record straight of, because of course, you see it, you see it now, the narrative that is thrust upon anybody doing any type of protests and the idea of peaceful protests and it's like, well, all. of these people who are speaking out against it, it's like, they say peaceful protests, but to them, peaceful protest doesn't fucking exist. And what Act Up did was rile people up in a nonviolent way that actually demanded action. And was confrontational. Just peaceful protests can be confrontational. Yeah. Um, because, you know, you see the early protests, you know, where they actually, you see it from end to end where, you know, they're going in, they're throwing the blood bombs. They're throwing, you know, they're putting up signs. They're doing acts of resistance. And then you see the negotiations that happen with that organization after. And they're fighting for transparency on top of, you know, responsibility to get medical trials and get medication out there, but also transparency so that it's not like you're financially benefiting from.

something that is a matter of public health, et cetera, et cetera. Right, right, right. But there's, you know, the movie does that, shows the system of what this demonstration is trying to achieve, but also never feels like vegetables. No, God, no. Like boring biopic, not boring biopic, but boring period piece removed from the current moment in which the audience is viewing it, you know. Like, there's a certain immersive quality to this movie that, you know, you almost experience it on a physical level when you watch this movie.

It's so immersive in the soul of the movement, the soul of the individual people within it that, like, it's always... It's one of the best movies that I've ever seen of showing how the individuals within, a group like are actually like actually make up this sort of organic collective that feels like it is living and breathing and moving both as a group and as also it's like constituent parts which I find to be really fascinating you can really see the ways in which you know this is specifically like Act Up in Paris. But it's also, you know, you can see how this would apply to any number of different, you know, political movements and whatever. And it's, and you don't see it through the lens of cynicism. You don't see it through the lens of any, you know, nobody's

motivations are sinister. Nobody's motivations are, you know, underhanded. There's confrontation. There's conflict. There's the one moment where Tebow, my beloved prosecutor from Anatomy of a Fall, who is so good at least. Antoine Reinhards. We'll get it to it. I adore him so much. So hot in this movie. But so later, oh, my God. So later on in the movie when Sean, is it pronounced Sean in French? Or do they have, I couldn't quite remember. But anyway, Tebow goes to visit Sean as Sean is. become very sick. And he says, we don't like each other, but we're friends. And I was like, what a, like, it's a funny line, of course. But it's also just like, oh, right, like, this is, you know, everybody in this group is sort of bound to each other. But it doesn't mean that they don't, like, you know, vehemently kind of disagree with each other on any number of things. I mean, that is,

that's true gay friendship. We both certainly have those where it's like, I don't, like that person but they're my friend but they're my friend also there's this you know there is this gay thing of just like uh you know suddenly someone who you have been tangential friends with is just you know like one of your rider dies immediately just kind of for no reason uh huh we have those as well like the this movie also gets and of course like it's era specific because of AIDS, the, not, I don't want to say revolving door, but the ebbs and flows of a queer ecosystem and how those relationships evolve become more intense suddenly or more connective and people also fall away. And not fall away in this movie, not purely because of death. Right. Though certainly

that is a huge part of this movie. Yeah. Yeah. But this movie also, in dealing with death, because obviously it has to, you know, not to just jump to the third act of the movie. But I think for gay people, especially gay people who love this movie, the way that Sean's death is handled and how we see that group coming together, including, you know, the mother who Sean basically. basically like ripped a new asshole in a way that kind of divided her from the group. The way these people have a mutual understanding and mutual shared experience that's, you know, we don't often see in movies in such an authentic way. Yeah. Yeah. It's wonderful. I love this movie. I fucking love this movie. One of my favorite movies of the past decade. Yes, absolutely. Did not get enough. It got a lot of

But it didn't get enough as far as I'm concerned. I wonder why. We'll get into it. I wonder why. We'll get into it. I feel like we've maybe talked about this, but you know, this is also my first TIF movie. First movie I ever saw to TIF. Get the hell out of here.

Yeah. That's so funny. Saw it with a friend and former guest Nathaniel Rogers. That was such an interesting Tiff for me. That was, I've talked about it before. I sound so boring when I repeat stories, but whatever. but that was the TIF that came on the heels of me having mono for most of August that year and not knowing what I was sick with and being just like absolutely having mono and not being on

anti-anxiety meds, I wouldn't recommend it. I was not in my Lexapro era yet, and that probably would have helped quite a bit because It was just a month of, I spent a weekend in bed with a fever, not knowing what was wrong with me, watching the Charlottesville riots happen. And literally was like, oh, I'm in a nightmare hell. Like, I'm like literally in hell right now. It's hot. And the world has become this, like, violent, awful place. And I think I'm dying, but I, like, don't know what's going on. So on the heels of all of that then was 2017 TIF. And it was so cool that you were there, and our friend Nick Davis was there, and our friend Nathaniel Rogers was there, and all this sort of stuff. And I think my first movie of that Tiff was Call Me By Your Name. I was going to bring this up because they were like dueling P&Is, and it's like, I didn't

want to rile you up, but the contingent of, well, the thing that makes you mad that it's like people throw more respectability to something like this than call me by your name. Yes. Well, it's the, it's the determination to not only sort of pit two movies like this against each other, but to sort of the knee-jerk, you know, sort of snobby, like, well, obviously the French movie about AIDS activism is better than the American twink-a-palooza happening, you know, and call me by your name or whatever. But I don't know. I'm like, yes, indeed, it is the better of two really good movies, but not for the reasons of patting them, patting yourself on the back of it.

What's so funny is, like, I had completely forgotten that there was any kind of, you know what I mean? Just like, I had completely. Until I put it in the outline. Until you put it in. but it's true it's just sort of like now all of a sudden Well, because there's also God's own country this year. Eight years later, who gives a shit? God's own country, I remember more because God's own country wasn't even more annoying.

People were that way about those movies because you saw penises in God's own country. That was the most annoying thing where it's just like God's own country is a better movie because you see more like more penetration. Like you see more like active fucking in that movie. And it's just like, literally, like, get a better brain. Like, just, like, turn your brain in and ask for a new one because you have an incredibly limited way to appreciate art. And I feel sad for you. I don't love God's own country, but it's like, also, we could just be celebrating that we have this many? No, we can't do that, Chris.

We have to set up camps and dig our huge. heels in and, you know, get on teams. Well, and it's so interesting, though, the movies that get included and don't get included in these conversations. Because, like, could have been celebrated... I mean, I know Mudbound is not a queer movie, but we could have been celebrating D. Rees, having the success she had with Mudbound being a queer woman. Professor Marston and the Wonder Woman, Angela Robinson's movie, didn't kind of get the

attention it deserved. And it's like, we have a lot of queer movies in this moment and not a lot of people just simply celebrating that. Listen, we could have actually, right, we could have actually taken a moment to be like, wow, aren't we lucky to have all of this? And instead, our community's tendency towards being pop stands ruined it for everybody because now all of a sudden your team, you're a Swifty or you're in the Beehive. You know what I mean? But it's, like, transposed onto movies, and it's stupid. Did I mention that I have problems with people within our community while still being their friend and their brother? Yeah.

The, did I mention that sometimes I'm like, I just choose not to care. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Happy pride, everybody. Happy pride. Happy pride. We are despondent. You've become toxic in the way that you appreciate things, everybody.

Happy pride, I choose to ignore who I choose to ignore. Here's the thing, though. There are things that you choose not to ignore that I... That you absolutely choose to ignore. And, you know, we'll bring up the heteronormativity jar at some point, but... I don't know if there's really that in this movie. No, there isn't. In a certain way, you know, that you do see...

No, there is no heterosexual representation. Yes, there is. There's the other who I love that character. Yes, me too. Helene. I love that she brings in there trying to find a slogan. She brings up this like totally like serial commercial candle commercial slogan and everybody just like slowly waits and then tries to sifle their laughter at her corny ass slogan. But like she gets it. She gets that it's corny. Well, and it's a good sort of reminder that like, a pertinent reminder for our times. I saw a tweet the other day where people, somebody was just like, this is a moment where we need everybody. Like, cringe cannot be the enemy of social progress, essentially. It's just like you have to get over the fact that, like, you know, lib, you know, lib moms are cringe. It's just like, yeah, you know what?

Who gives a fuck? They're out. They're going to be out there today just like. everybody else is. But there is also lesson in this is not a new phenomena that cringe has always been. We've always had cringe. Cringe has always been with us. Cringe has always been the bartender at the Overlook Hotel. Yes. Cringe has died. Cringe has risen. Cringe will come again. It's the religion that I subscribe to. The only God is Cringe. All right. Well, I'm eager to sort of, like, actually get into discussion of the movie and also all the other stuff.

Well, before we do that, why don't you hype our Patreon? Will you please tell the listeners about our Patreon? I sure will. Our Patreon is called This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent Brilliance. It's been around for a couple of years. There is so much, so much content to be had. I know I said the C word, but whatever. So many hours of podcasts to be had for the low, low price of $5 a month, and we are churning out two brand-new episodes every single month.

First of those episodes drops on the first Friday of every month. We call it an exceptions episode. The movies that we count as exceptions are movies that follow the usual rubric that we do on this had Oscar buzz, where we talk about movies with great Oscar expectations and disappointing results. Although in the case of our exceptions, we can't do them on the main feed because they got an Oscar nomination or two. But even still, with getting those couple Oscar nominations, it was still a disappointment. It still could have been more. It could have been so much more. We did interview with a vampire is up, right? Yes. Yes.

Interview with the vampire, one of my favorite Patreon episodes we've done in a minute. I thought we had a real, real good time talking about a real good. A gay bummer on this episode, go listen to Interview with the Vampire, because we are a gay upper. Sure. We are gay poppers in talking about interview with the vampire. Gay poppers, as if there are straight poppers. Come on. There are, though.

That's the thing. It's the thing. When they start selling them in boutegas, it's like. We also have episodes on any number of other movies. Mary Queen of Scots, Far from Heaven. House of Gucci, Charlie Wilson's War, The Mirror Has Two Faces, the Barbara Streisand Classic, Vanilla Sky, Molly's Game. We've had guests on some of these episodes we talked with our dear friend Natalie Walker about The Phantom of the Opera and our dear friend Jorge

Molina about Knives Out and our dear friend Katie Rich about Australia. And then on the third Friday of every month, we give you another full-length episode. These episodes we call excursions, are not about movies specifically, but about weird little Oscar freco shit that we get into. We'll watch old movie awards, either, you know, we've done old Golden Globes, old indie spirits, old MTV movie awards. We've talked about EW fall movie previews and Hollywood Reporter roundtables. We've done our own little awards, which we call the superlatives. This month, our feature excursion is we are talking about the 1988 Academy Award. which opened with the Snow White Roblo Abomination.

It is, if you want to tune in to hear Chris Fyle talk about Alan Carr in-depth, then that is the episode for you. Happy Gay Guy time. That's our also pride. We ended up completely accidentally picking two really good Patreon episodes for Pride Month. Like, we kind of figured it out. Gay shit. Just in general, we're having a really good time.

We would love to have you aboard to sign up for this head Oscar buzz, turbulent brilliance. Once again, only $5 a month. We will bring you the joy. That is our commitment to you. $5 a month to us, joy to all of you. Maybe not the movie joy, although we could do joy as an exception because that definitely would count. I think it definitely had ambitions that were a lot higher than just actress. Anyway, to sign up for This Head Oscar Buzz Turbulent, Brilliant,

so you can go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this head Oscar Buzz. We would have a fucking blast talking about joy. Talking about Isabella Rossellini and enemies in commerce? Are you fucking kidding me? That'd be amazing. If you ever speak. On my behalf about my business. again.

Well-deserved Best Actress nomination for Jennifer Lawrence and I'll say no more. My name's Joy, by the way. My name's Joy, by the way. All right. Let's talk about BPM.

Yeah. Let's... Am I the only one who sees the title BPM and in my head starts singing Girls 5Eva BPE? Yes, I think you are

indeed the only one. Well, it shouldn't be. It should be other people. BPM, also known as 120 BPM. also known as 120 beats per minute, I think there was some type of contractual obligation that this movie has a different title

almost exactly like the same title in every single country that it was released. Yeah, yeah, slightly different. Sometimes 120 is written out. Sometimes BPM has a punctuation in between the letters. Sometimes it does not. Sometimes it's just like sometimes it's fonts. Like, every country has to have their own way of styling.

It's like a project runway challenge. Much like it's a gay multiplicity. Many different gay people had different opinions on what this movie should be titled, a different, very basically identically, for a identical version of each other. As gay people, as gay people, we get to choose how we... Our punctuation. How we title BPM. Yeah.

All right. Continue. Robin Campio's BPM. Great movie. Have you seen any other Robin Campio movies? No. Eastern Boys is on my spreadsheet for June Pride viewing. Eastern Boys is good. Red Island is good. Red Island, which didn't make can competition and then therefore got screwed out of its U.S. release. But still had some fans. I remember Richard Lawson put it on his best of the year list. And then what was the one that was at Cannes this year?

Enzo. Enzo. Campio was a collaborator with Laurent Conte who won the palm for the class. Campio co-wrote the class, I believe, right? Yes, was accredited writer. And this film, Enzo, which I don't think has U.S. distribution yet. So it might be a similar situation to what happened with Red Island. Uh-huh.

um it's credited strangely in some way it was something that they had developed together and like there's a certain filmic style that you'll see in bpm similar to kantai's work uh enzo is credited as a film by laurent kanttay and directed by robin kempio as like kind of a tribute but also like i imagine kantai would have been been developing the movie before he had died. Or it had been some type of idea, and Campio is trying to basically translate his style to this movie. I'll be very curious to see it whenever I can. Yeah. Because I think this movie made me a diehard to any Campio movie that I can get my hands on, even though I didn't love Red Island as much as I had hoped.

But Eastern Boys, also a good, interesting movie. People should seek out. I'm eager to check that out for sure. has this kind of immersive visceral quality to his films because it's interesting Odiard is credited

as a producer on this movie and you're like oh that kind of makes sense the visceral quality of BPM the you know the way that it's shot and edited that really places the audience in the like psychological, physical, emotional space

feels like Odiard, but maybe more successful at what O'Dard is trying to do than I think O'Diard usually is. But there is a style to Campillo's films that has that. You know, there's the full texture that you feel like you're not removed from that I'm sure we'll get into when we get into the movie BPM also written by Campillo

and Philippe Manjou starring Noel Perez Biscayar Adele Hinell I loved to torture Joe when we were preparing this episode and I was like wow Adele Manel six timers

wow I had you I had already checked and double checked and made sure that Adele Hinell was not like sneakily like lurking in four other movies that we've done besides this and and portrait of a lady on fire. Arnavo Lois, Antoine Rine Arts, as we've previously mentioned,

Felix Maritou, Mediterre, and Catherine Venette's year. Movie World premiered in Cannes Competition. We'll talk about it. Played additional festivals, including TIF, and then opened limited October 20th, 2017, distributed by The Orchard, the independent distributor that was sank by, by Louis C.K. Oh, God. I didn't even think about that.

Other monstrous monstrous activities and behaviors. Yeah, he took down the orchard. Yeah, they paid something crazy for his movie. What was that called? Daddy. Daddy. I love you, Daddy.

I love you, Daddy. I love you, Daddy. No, thank you. I'm remembering now that I saw BPM, I got into a press screening before Tiff, which was like, that's the Holy Grail. That was the Holy Grail for me is like all of these people that I knew would get into these like pre-TIF screenings that like made their TIF schedule building so much easier because, you know, they were, they were able to, you know, cross a whole bunch of stuff off their list, which is why I didn't have to, I didn't have to go see it on that first day of TIF. and I was free to see call me by your name.

And then obviously, that was a political statement I was making by seeing Call Me By Your Name, apparently. Yeah, because that was also extra valuable to see it because it didn't play New York Festival. And I got, Netflix gave me access to Mudbound also, so I was able to see Mudbound before Tiff that year as well. So, little inside baseball that I know Chris hates when we engage in because it makes us sound like fancy little, fancy little insiders. Maybe this is the episode where we just emphasize all of the things that we fight about and to be thematically appropriate.

We didn't fight on vacation, though. No, we had a perfectly lovely vacation. We don't fight particularly a lot. I don't want to give, like, the listeners that, uh, that impression. We just have... I think it's funny. Well, I think it's not funny. Eh.

You know, um, whatever. We can fight about whether or not it's funny. Uh-huh. Uh, the opening weekend for BPM, you know, it's only on two screens. Doesn't make a box office dent. But like, what a time and time. What a place in time. What a time and time and time.

What an ephemeral space. What a... What a... five-dimensional object we don't have a word for yet in time this is the box office top five boo to a Medea

Halloween Geostorm that was that went through me saw Geostorm in 4DX when I pulled this up I was like Geostorm wow Jesus Happy Death Day

I know there's fans out there about the happy death days slightly overrated but a fun but a fun movie nonetheless we should have more movies like that that being said i don't love it uh blade runner 2049 banger banger all-time banger what a great movie skip the festivals i've never come out of a again here's the inside baseball that no one cares about it and it is not interesting just say it never came out of a press screening where they like had to gather you all around and tell

you all of the things that you were prohibited from saying uh in writing about and discussing the movie until it opened. And some of it was like, okay, well, that's in the first 10 minutes of the movie. Like, this is introduced at the beginning. I loved how they were pretending just like, you can't say who Harrison Ford is playing. And it's like, shut the fuck out. It basically was like that. Like, you could not, you, it was like you couldn't say stuff about Ryan Gosling.

They didn't want you to know that Ryan Gosling was a replicant, which is so stupid because, of course, Ryan Gosling was playing a replicant. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Also, it doesn't ruin anything to know that. Yeah. Well, the Sean Young thing I can understand is trying to maintain because I think it's a stupid part of the movie, but like, um, I can understand them wanting to like, you know, preserve that as a surprise.

I don't think you were allowed to talk about Anna to Armis, if I remember correctly, like, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly. Okay, so then you just want, you just want, you just want everything to be vibe based. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. And then in fifth place Only the Brave

Sounds like none of my business But the limited release is the same weekend Where The Killing of a Sacred Deer and Wonderstruck Killing of a Sacred Deer I think was also a movie I saw that first day of TIF If not, maybe the second day No we do not see it together Because I saw the TIF premiere screening

Yeah I did not But what a fun movie This had Oscar Buzz This had Oscar Buzz movies, both of them, that one and... Very much of this had Oscar Buzz weekend. Yes, yes, absolutely. All right.

Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description for BPM? I am. All right, then your 60-second plot description for BPM starts now. It's the early 90s, and we're with the Paris chapter of Act Up, which is currently battling with the Health Ministry and Big Pharma via demonstrations and political action stunts, but they're also constantly battling with themselves over tactics, priorities, slogans, and general organizational direction. We see this queer activist movement in all of its past.

passion and tumult as they work desperately, angrily, and loudly to force straight society to pay attention to AIDS. Through these internal battles, we get to know a lot of their individual personalities. Tebow, one of the group's leaders, who is dedicated but egotistical. Helene, who is the mother of an HIV-positive son who contracted the virus through blood transfusions. Max represents a younger, more agitated contingent within the group, and Adele and her incredible eyebrows. Increasingly, the story focuses on Sean, a founding member of Actup Paris and a firebrand agitator within the group, and Nathan, a newcomer to the group who's HIV negative. The two hookup and their romance

is set against Sean's deteriorating health. Sean is eventually hospitalized and Nathan gives him the most emotionally layered yet hot hand job in cinema history. With Sean's health rapid and failing, both Nathan and Sean's mom move in with him and Nathan agrees to give Sean a fatal dose of painkiller and when Sean dies in the middle of the night, a procession of act up members come by to grieve together, honor their friend and plaintiff's

funeral protest. Said protest takes in the form of throwing Sean's ashes over a fancy luncheon for the health insurance industry. As the group protests, we see scenes of the group members dancing to house club music and flashes of different characters having sex, the pulsing, angry, defiant, horny lifeblood pumping through their veins, alive for the moment, and loud in the face of history, the end.

20 seconds over, and 20 seconds of that was the finale of the movie. Well, it was important. Well, I think also because we've seen similar sequences earlier in the movie, too, you know, there is this whole one of the refrains, one of the repeated stories that you hear about people who were in Act Up, that it's like they're organizing during the day, and then they are going out and celebrating their lives at night. Yeah. And this movie does that so well. I mean, Campillo was a member of Paris Act Up, and so, you know, some of this is drawn from, you know, personal experience, but that sounds so cheap when you compare it to the way that that's actually brought to life in the movie.

Yeah. The scenes, the way that they're, the depictions of the club scenes and the way that they film it where you can sort of see the sort of sweat suspended in air as the as sort of like particulate as sort of like, you know, vapor, you know, vapor sort of around everybody. And it's, it's like watching, it's like catching dust in a sunbeam or whatever, but it's more, it's sweeter than that, obviously. It's sort of, you know, it's more, it's more visceral than that. It's more, it's more you know, I don't know, alive. And it feels, it feels very much like a, a way to visually sort of get at a lot of things at once, which is, there is, you know, sort of, there's sexuality at

play, there's freedom at play, there's also a hyper focus on that, you know, you can't ever fully put out of your mind, you know, this idea of, because obviously, like, fluid, you know, being such a fraught subject when you're talking about, you know, the AIDS era and whatnot. This is still an era where people were afraid to share space, literally share space with people, touch people, touch things that they had touched. Right. And there's so much, there's such a streak going through BPM of people kind of negotiating that kind of thing for themselves, how much, you know, they choose to, you know, be physical with each other, be, you know, tactile with each other, to have sex with each other, to have sex with each other. There's so many layers to the sexuality of this movie, too, because it is inherently political to see HIV positive people having fulfilling sexual Congress in a film, you know, and, you know, regardless of the era that it's depicting. but also, you know, the idea of touch being so important.

You know, you mentioned the handjob scene, which is so incredibly moving on top of being so very sexy, on top of being such a political image. You've never seen such a layered hand job in your entire life. It's really incredible. Like, honestly, it's like... No, no, yeah. You're very, very correct to bring. it up. Also the handjob scene. One of the things that apparently

made some of the can jury members with whispered homophobic leanings, so uncomfortable. I think a lot of that gets pinned on Will Smith. I think it was also

Sorrentino. I know this based off of nothing but wives. I was going to say what are we basing this on? This is incredible. I love it. Italian heterosexuality. Okay. All right, I'm going to read off. Because the, not just rumors, but like, Almodovar has talked about, or Almodovar has talked about his experience and has said, didn't imply that it was one person barring this movie from getting the bomb. But, you know, it's out there that seeing Lode made Will Smith uncomfortable.

What did Elmotivar say about BPM, though, himself? He published, like, a bunch of journals, basically. I think that's how they discussed it in. I didn't go back and find the exact one, but he's intimated that, like, it was his choice, but he wasn't, you know, he wasn't willing to be contentious. All right. I'm going to go down the list of members of the 2017 can jury,

and you're going to tell me, whether or not Yes, Maranadei Well, it can't be most of the people Because this movie still won the Grand Prix We're doing this, we're doing this exercise Maranadee, did she vote for BPM for the palm? Yes, she voted for BPM, she's my queen

Jessica Chastain Voted for BPM Fan Bing Bing. Voted for BPM. Agnes Jawi Voted for BPM. Park Chanwuk Just made a gay movie, he voted for BPM.

Will Smith B.P. Palo Sorrentino. Did not vote for BPM. I am choosing to believe that Sorrentino is the villain. We, again, purely vibes. Gabriel Yared, closing up the jury. Wrote the score for talented Mr. Ripley.

He voted. And Tom at the Farm, I remember also. A beautiful, beautiful score. So we are, yes. Am I being petulant here? Am I basing this off? Nothing but vibes. Watch Apollo Sorentino movie

And watch Apollo Sorrentino movie He doesn't think gay people exist He makes some pretty gay movies But doesn't think gay people exist I mean I haven't seen Parthenopy yet I'm going to watch Parthenope

Because Oh Parthenope Yeah I want to see that movie More like Parthi yep That's if I like Parthenope I mean Everybody that I've talked to that has seen it says, like, yeah, that's a movie about boobs.

And I'm like, well, I have to see it. Wait, what's a good pun for Partha? Damn it, I can't think of it. If I think of a good boob pun for Parthenope, I'll let you know. Parthenope starring Jasmine Amy Rogers, Parthenna Boop. Partha Boop. You've seen that TikTok, right? the woman's like

overheard in Times Square we could see boop Have you seen it? I haven't seen that, but This is a new character I created based off of a man I saw in Times Square. Oh, well we could see boop! I'm finding it for you. It's so funny.

All right, yeah, so we are placing the entire blame for BPM not winning the Palm Door on the backs of Paul. Charlestonu and Will Smith. And you know what? The thing about Will Smith, too, because of course, there's also the story. So Will Smith, one of his earliest movies, is Six Degrees of Separation, which Oscar nomination for Stalker Channing. But he plays this, I mean, he's a gay hustler, but he's also sort of like there's a kind of, you know, hollowed out could be, he could be anybody for anything in any moment, right? Right? That's the sort of, you know, character that he is. But sort of he's somebody who, uh, uh, Soccer Channing and, um, Donald Sutherland sort of take him in and, uh, he spends the night at their place. And then they come back home from a thing. And he's having sex with Anthony Michael Hall in, uh, in their guest room or whatever. And, uh, they like run out, right?

At the end. Much like Wild Wild West, you see his penis. And, and so there's also another scene where, like, he's, you know, sort of, like, seducing Anthony Michael Hall to get him to give him information about all these rich people. And so he's certainly, he has sex with Heather Graham's boyfriend. Like, there's a whole, like, he's playing a character who is on some level or another queer. And there was that story about how Denzel Washington, in giving him advice around that time was like, don't let them have you kissing a man on screen because it will, like, it'll prevent you from sort of, you know, advancing as a leading man in movies because it'll pigeonhole you as, you know, somebody who plays gay characters or whatever. And so,

and of course there have always been rumors, you know, about. about is Will Smith bisexual, and are Will and Jada, both bisexual? Like, are they swingers? Are they whatever? Are they secret scientologists? There's also a certain level of, like, are these rumors fueled? Because you can say the same thing about Tom Cruise. When a star cares so much about being perceived that way, it only ends up fueling those rumors anyway. Right. And we don't know. We don't know anything about this. But we all, but like, you know, and of course, you can't just be like, well, if there's smoke, there's fire. Because, like, I don't necessarily think that's I think there are some people who there are just gay rumors because, like, some people want them to be gay.

I don't think there was ever truth to the Jake Gyllenhaal rumors, but, like, people really wanted Jake Gyllenhaal to be gay super bad. Right, right. But who knows? I don't know anything. Who knows? Also, it's a fucking spectrum. And, you know, people can hook up with guys and then mostly date girls.

And there's like... Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly is... Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly don't sue us. But whatever. My point being, though, is that, like, the idea that Will Smith would have maybe a hang-up about queerness in cinema isn't necessarily a huge stretch. I think there's more evidence.

There's more evidence based there than there is for self-sortena. A heteronormative straight guy, a straight six-year-old man, which is maybe the thing that I'm... Anyway, if you were on the can jury in 2017 and want to send us back channel information about what was really going on, Jessica Chastain, Maranadee, Fon Bing, Bing.

Mara Day, let's hang out. Gabriel, Yere, get at us like let's let's let's figure it out call the hotline if i if i hung out with maran ade it would totally become the chris farley show i would i would become a deadbeat i would be a deadbeat um maran ade who's uh made such films as tony erdman and everyone else force for the trees those are her three features is there a new maran ade film she's filming this year okay that's what i have been told with anyone we would know No, I don't, I don't know if there's any of those details this year, but all I've been told is she plans to film this year.

Interesting. I'm going to be a deadbeat. I'm going to be a deadbeat. BPM, a better film than the square in every conceivable way. It's made worse by the fact that Ruben Oslund got another palm. So it's like the square, why does that movie need a palm? Okay, but like those, we've, you know, that's reverse. I know. I know. It's reverse logic. Reverse logic. And we can't, like, but other movies that year, this is actually, we've talked about this a little bit. This is, I say, a really strong year for Cannes because you also have movies like The Killing of a Sacred Deer, the Myerwit stories. I really enjoy Bongchino's Oakja. I don't love either Lynn Ramsey's never, you were never really here, or Josh Benny Safdi's good time, but, like, those were two movies that, like, really energized a lot of

people who are not me. So, um, Fatia King's, Wonderstruck and the Beguiled all being movies that I love more than the general consensus. Fatia Keens, uh, in the fade, which the two of us saw together at you, I don't remember you hating it so much, actually. I thought you were kind of nonplussed by it. Yeah. I was patient. But like, the further away that I've gotten from that movie, I'm like, what the fuck? Like, I thought Diane Kruger was actually quite good. in that movie

for whatever else we can talk about it. But anyway... Good actress. A lot of really interesting filmmakers. So good in the Shrouds in a way that it's like... I gotta see that movie.

She's so good in that movie, but it's the type... She's doing... She's great doing the type of thing that just doesn't get praise. Yeah, yeah. So, BPM wins...

Grand Prix. Oh, Dian Kruger did win actress. that can for In The Fakes. Joaquin wins for You Are Never Really Here for Best Actor. Sophia Coppola Best Director for The Begild is very funny because the Beguiled has been absolutely memory hold after only a few years. Like that, like, it does not get talked about, which is so funny because it's maybe her most star-studded movie.

Like, it's the Sophia Coppola movie with like the kind of wowiest cast, having it being Kidman and Colin Farrell and Kirsten. And I think it's her second highest growth. That would make sense. That would make a lot of sense. I don't remember loving it. I remember walking out and being like, oh, I wish I had liked that more. But I've only seen it the one time. I mean, I would maybe concede that what is really good, the greatness within that movie is so like kind of within a vacuum. I can kind of understand that, you know, it fades away for people. But like, Dunst is incredible in that movie. She should have been Oscar now. nominated for it. What are your all-time dunced nominations? How many nominations?

We didn't get into this in interview with a vampire? We didn't really. Not like, not on a... You mean in my real world like ballot or my gay guy ballot? Like,

those are two different things. Do you have gay guy ballots and real world ballots? That's awesome. I mean, like, if I was being a petulant gay guy, I would be like, she's Oscar nominated for Dick. Like... Uh-huh. Sure.

But like, if I'm, if I'm keeping both feet on the ground. She probably has three to four Oscar nominations. Yeah. I wonder how much how many I have for her. Can we be patient for half a second and I'll pull out? I would definitely say while you're looking it up, interview with the vampire, power the dog, the beguiled, no question. And then I would probably throw melancholia. So maybe actually it's like four to five. That's supportable. Where I'm like talking myself into like, yes, actually, she should be Oscar nominated

for Bachelorette. All right, let me pull this up. All right. Search Kirsten. So I've got her for Power of the Dog for sure. I've got her for Bachelorette in 2012,

Best Actress. I have her just outside of Best Actress for Melancholia. I have her just outside of supporting actress for Eternal Sunshine. That's true. Maybe it's like

five to six for me. And I have her I have her just outside of supporting actress for her interview with the vampire, so I guess I only have two. Hmm. But...

I guess I'm the Dunstead here. I mean, I love Kristen Dunst. Although there was a while there where I... Didn't. Happiness for the Dunst Plumman's household. It's true. We love that.

Another movie that I like way more than everybody else in this can competition is Okja. Oakja's very, very fun. I have a lot of patience for Okja. Oakja is... I think Okja is my Mickey 17 in the way that a lot of people

really were were like vibing with Mickey 17 and I was sort of like a little bit not. That was me with Okja where it's like I was really vibing with it and a lot of people were like, I don't know about that.

Which is fine. I think we all get to choose our Bong Joon Ho weirdo quasi-activist movies of choice. I do have to, I mean, it's not in that vein, but I do have to get you to watch Memories of Murder. Oh, for sure. Like, that will not be a hard sell. There's a whole bunch of modern Asian cinema movies that, like, I have on a long list of things I need to catch up on. And it's just a matter of me sort of... The thing is, I love a project, and yet, like, because there is no actual, like, it's not for a job or a podcast or whatever.

Yeah, by the nature of your job, you do not have much time to just watch something. Orchug other things ahead of that, which sucks because, like, all I want to do is just, like, make spreadsheets of movies that I want to watch and then knock them out. So, we'll see. All right. Anyway, so backing up into BPM. BPM wins the queer palm, it wins the Grand Prix. It's not like it's leaving can as an out. It doesn't win the palm itself.

Right. But it's, you know, all of a sudden, as with, you know, most things it can. It's if you, you know, make a decent splash, then all of a sudden you are kind of near the front of the line when it comes to being submitted for international feature at the Oscars. So here's where we run into the next thing, which is... It gets the submission from France. Do you remember there being other movies that were, like, being considered for that submission? Because sometimes there's a lot of, like, you know, little articles in the press about how, like, oh, it's going to be, like, raw or Petit Mama.

or something, you know what I mean like that? Yes. The other two, like, finalists that France considered was a film called Barbara, directed by Matthew Almorique. Barbara, please. I think of that every single time I see. I just think of Alyssa Edwards specifically. It's so funny.

And then the Azanivious movie about Gendar, that everyone hated. Everyone hated. Remember that? Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. Well, okay. So one of my things that I never forget is. Jessica Chastain in the final press conference

after they award all of the prizes talking about major directors in the Cannes lineup who how shocked she was at how they view women and the role that women have in those movies. I thought one of the movies she was talking about was good time because that even was one of my takeaways from Good Time

But she later She talked about how much she loved that movie Later she tweeted at how great good time was And I was like, okay, so she doesn't mean good time I think a lot of people took it to mean Azonavicious Uh-huh Very doubtable

Who was just a few years removed from Winning the Oscar, etc. Yeah Hanavisius has not made another movie That anybody has liked since the artist, right? It's almost as if we maybe overdid it on the artist and the artist wasn't that great to begin with. So he makes the search, which is his sort of big follow-up, which also goes to can.

Doesn't get U.S. distribution. It gets such a nuclear reaction. Oh, and Nett Bennings is in that one. I totally didn't even realize Annette Benning's in it, Bernice Bezos. Bernice Bezos is all of his movies, right? Yeah, yeah. I thought they were married. Maybe they weren't married at some point, but...

No, they're married. You're right. Oh, okay. There we go. what was the most precious of cargoes that was last year that was the animated holocaust one that everybody also said was terrible great great love it but bpm gets the french submission i think throughout that season it was a presumed nominee and it doesn't even make the short list so it was the big snub from the short list and some of that was a you know, at least in the press, a matter of, well, why do we only advance nine movies? This is, the short list is nine movies. And I think at this time it was, well, if you just get a certain score, that's how you advance. And nine is kind of the arbitrary number.

I don't think it was set at nine. Because in 2019, they move it from, they move it to a 10 shortlist. Right. I mean, ultimately, any number on a short list is going to be arbitrary, even if it's a nice round number. At any point you cut it off, the whole point of having a short list is it's a short list. Like, it is a, you are limiting your options. You can't, I think it seems a little bit counterproductive to start being like, well, can't we make the short list longer? It's like, no, it's a short list.

That's the whole fucking point of it. Well, it's also, it also goes down to frustrations, and I've certainly been one of those people who's been frustrated with it of what the process is like for the international feature category, because it's basically through whoever volunteers to watch a certain number of the movies, and they've done it through point system, score system type of thing. And I think they still do it to a certain degree. But it's a lot, now that they have the virtual platform, these movies are a lot more accessible. It used to be, you know, whoever was willing in the Academy membership to show up to screenings that they can prove that they were at these screenings, those were the people who voted on it. And it's never published of who was the actual voting body for these movies. So you can imagine that it's changing. It's subject to certain tastes, which is why, you know.

Well, there's a couple things about that. One of which is if you want to sort of turn this particular award into a fully juried award, I wouldn't object necessarily, except that the whole thing about the Academy Awards is that like the whole, it's about the, you know, the whole of the Academy sort of coming together. That's why everybody votes on every, you know, nominations are handled within. branches, but everybody votes on every award for, you know, the Oscars. And I, my thing has always just like you can't legislate your way out of people's taste. Like, ultimately, people's tastes are people's taste. But in the case of this, if it's a matter of giving people to see the movies, and there's a barrier to entry for a lot of these movies because they are, they don't have distribution, you know what I mean, and that kind of thing. The system is already inherently

biased towards movies that have a whole, you know, promotional apparatus behind. But I will say two things have sort of happened recently that are improving this, one of which is the portal, the Academy Voting Portal, where you can watch all of the nominated movies online. The second of which is, just in general, international, more international movies, movies are getting U.S. distribution in some way. And getting awards attention as well in races outside of international feature. Yes, yes. And I think some of us that were the biggest fans of BPM, we're like, this is a movie that should be a directing nominee. It should have multiple acting nominations. Yes. We're just sort of starting to get there in terms

of international movies being contenders in acting races. It's, we've gotten obviously recently with Sondra Hewler and it's not quite we're not quite and you know obviously Fernanda Torres as well and Carl Sophia Gascon

but in terms of everybody like you look at a movie like another round getting a directing nomination I'm still like but if you really liked another round it's kind of wild not to nominate Mads Mikkelson.

You know what I mean? So it's just sort of like getting those movies to be considered fully, holistically, we're moving in that direction. We're moving in a good direction for that. Well, and BPM not making the short list, definitely, you know, those headlines right itself, you know, in terms of this movie maybe not being received because of lingering. I don't want to be like, well, straight people don't get this movie, but I do think there is a certain... Don't you, though? No, I do think that there's a predisposition that, you know, queerness and engagement within queer issues, queer community, you're going to understand the effect this movie is going for, aside from, you know, You know, the thing it is about, I think that element of how it emmeshes you, the audience, in this story feels so incredibly true to living within queer community.

Like, am I explaining that well? Yeah, you are. Yes. The stylistic effect of this movie. Like, it's literally shot from, in these meetings, it's shot from Bird's Eye View. the camera is literally sitting amongst, like, a member and, like, the very physical sensation that the movie gives you in those dancing sequences and in those protest sequences, you know, I don't want to say there's a barrier to entry, but if you're a heterosexual person who doesn't have any experience in that, maybe you're not going to get it, you know, that what is placing you. There's also the idea that, like, if you make a movie about, this is going to sound silly, but like, if you make a movie about Lincoln, if you make a movie about World War II, if you make a movie about the Great Depression, or FDR, or Amelia Earhart, even, um, these are, we will do that movie. Eventually we will. Oh, did I tell you who requested the Amelia episode? We'll talk about it after. I think you did, but let's talk about it off, Mike. all of these people, in some way or another, are people who you've learned about in school,

or they're in your textbooks. They're mentioned on TV. Queer history like ACT UP is only really imparted to people once you've sort of come out and you're in communities or you're watching like queer documentaries or it's a lot more. sort of siloed information, not because we're keeping it siloed, but because straight society has not historically, you know, and I mean, you look at nowadays these sort of wars to keep the histories of minority people, not just queer people, but like black people and, you know, uh, you know, Hispanic people and immigrants, you know, keeping that history out of textbooks is, you know, a major priority of the right at this point. But you never learned about act up. I didn't learn about act up until I was in my 20s, you know what I mean?

And so I think then that trickles down to you're watching a movie about act up and you don't necessarily, you don't understand the historical importance of it. I think there is a degree to which we watch a movie like BPM and are like, this is this is queer history you know being portrayed in front of us and I think a straight person watches it and it's just like oh like here are some people in France in the 1990s and this is a thing over there

right or it's just like or it's just like it's a story about some people which is not to say that like they sneer at it or whatever but it's just like there is there there's just a degree of prestige Intimacy with which they feel the... Yeah. Well, and it's just like, but there are also unconscious things about, like, we tend to grant prestige onto things that we find to be historically important. And I think queer people are far more likely to see a movie like BPM as engaging with historical importance rather than a straight person, almost entirely because of, you know, differing levels of education on queer history. There's that working against it.

I also think there is something about historical things, especially when, you know, a movie is, you know, reaching to you in the audience in a way that's not about that distance. That's about limiting that distance and like placing you in that time. There's still something with certain audience members that I think is true of something like this that like you mentioned Lincoln. I think people assess Lincoln in this way where it's just like, ah, this is about history. It's over there. I have. a distance to it, and I only assess it in that way, even when the movie doesn't want you to, that I think there's reductive audience behaviors sometimes and people who just don't. I'm going to say this, and I don't mean it to diminish anybody in any way, but I do think the fact that O'Mary is about Abraham and Mary Todd Lincoln helped that show. sort of crossover to the degree that it did because oh in that like the audience that it's the queering of a history that like people knew about you know what i mean it's like sure it's a cracked version of it but it's a cracked version of like a history that everybody was familiar with which is

it's an access point for people who that show is not explicitly for yes in understanding yes and now colescola has a tony award and our lives are just a little bit brighter now. So I watched that so many times. I watched that clip of Cole winning so many times. And the cut to like Jeffrey Self

in the audience crying and like the whole thing and ate it all up, ate it all up with a spoon. Every, you know, backstage interview that Cole did after. And they should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they work now.

Open, open doors. everywhere. Yes. Wonderful. Anyway. But you know what I'm so nice to just see, not to be corny boots, but it's just nice to see a queer person succeed on their own terms. Yes. Fully on their own terms. Yes. Yeah. Yes. You know. Which is again why I want to say like I don't, and I don't mean to, you know, to diminish that success by being like, well, it's because I don't want to grant Cole's

success to Abraham Lincoln. do you understand what I'm saying about it? No, I know exactly what you're saying because, like, the level of success that it's at, it can't just be for its own audience. Though, I mean, like, the intended audience showed up and showed out for this. Oh, for sure. This. For sure. Yeah. But. So other, the, the shortlist that BPM did not make in 2017, the square, Rubin Usseland's the square, which had won the Palm Door. which was an Oscar nominee. South Africa's The Wound, John Trengov's The Wound. Felicité, the Elaine Gomi movie from Senegal. Loveless from Russia, Andrei Zavat, Zavadiv. Sure.

Lebanon's The Insults, which was also Lovelace was nominated. The Insult was nominated. An Israeli movie called Foxtrot that was not nominated. On Body and Soul. from Hungary, which was nominated. I remember being very, very kind of nonplussed about that movie. I was just like,

I got to the end of that movie and I was like, that's how I felt about the insult. I remember not liking the insult. In the fade, Fatia Keen's in the fade aforementioned, not nominated. And then the winner was Sebastian Lelio's A Fantastic Woman from Chile. A movie I really liked a lot. I was really glad that it won, given the

nominees. And yet, I don't think, this is not even an insult to Fantastic, a Fantastic Women or Sebastian Lelio. I don't think that movie holds a candle to BPM. Like, I just feel like it's in a completely different league. And it's a movie that I know a lot of trans critics had issues with. For me, it was just like there is a central performance that's great in that movie, that I feel like that was more than I could maybe say for those other movies in this line, in what was eventually this lineup, I think we could very much so have a lineup of five that's movies

I like more. Loveless is one that got a lot of critical praise and I was just on the outside. I remember liking Loveless, maybe. Sometimes I have to look up my rankings for that to like

remember um, hold on in 2017. Also, missing the short list, Hanukkah's Happy End, Angelina Jolie's First, They Killed My Father. Sure. Yolkame Trier's Thelma and Carla Simone's summer 1993. I liked that movie.

All right. Not Victoria and Abdul. Thelma, also a gay movie. Thelma? Yes. What was Thelma about? It's, you know, Trier's doing something a little different. because there's like a mysticism around like birds and repression and closetedness and she's lesbian.

Well, there we go. Sorry, Loveless. What did I say about Loveless? Stone Cold Bummer. Well, I'm looking up my rankings that year. It was middle of the pack. I called it a Stone Cold Bummer. ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab uh excruciatingly long takes in a way that makes it hard to watch

visually the movie is beautiful and i think it that resulted in people giving that movie a little more credit i said there are at least two to three moments that hit like a ton of bricks i apparently ranked um on body and soul a lot higher than i thought i did so maybe i did like it I didn't come away with it with much to say other than, yeah, sure, good. Yeah. Wow. Hold on.

Where did I rank on? Oh, my own soul. Jesus. Hold on. Oh, no. I ranked it very low. I ranked it 49th out of 50, 59 movies. So, yeah, I did not super care for somebody.

So I didn't think so. 2017 is just generally a good year. So BPM getting shut out of this race was also like, we do also have ponies elsewhere. It's just such a good movie year. But even so, I think this ranks among the very best movies of 2017. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Yeah, I always talk about how much I like the 2017.

Best Picture lineup even more than a lot of other people because I think a lot of other people have sort of landmines in that lineup, whether you really hate three billboards or whether you really don't care for Darkest Hour or whether you're sort of out on Dunkirk or The Post or something like that. I feel like my, the only movie that I'm sort of like an outlier on is phantom thread but like even i can admit that like phantom thread is a really well well put together movie that i mostly am not mostly i'm partially being a brat about because i feel like you just think the people who love it the most are annoying people got really annoying about that movie and like this happens with so many paul thomas anderson movies but i feel like i can still say that like phantom

thread is a better movie than like licorice pizza is do you know what i mean oh yeah um i feel I feel like I can be a little bit more. Great romantic comedy. See, this is the shit. This is the shit that annoyed me about Phantom Threat, not you specifically, but the whole, like, it's a romantic comedy. It's relationship goals. It's, you know, we should all be trying to poison each other. We should all love each other that much that, like, we're always constantly trying to, like, you know, kill each other.

If you look at the poisoning in a literal. way. I understand why you feel that way, but if you can... Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I look at the poisoning in a literal way? It's a literal movie. What is happening on a psychological level if you remove literal poisoning out of that relationship? What is happening there? There is a romance to it that feels true to how a marriage works. I do think that that's a great movie. about marriage. Maybe that's what annoyed me about it

is it had so many people marriage spaining to me. Sorry, I don't mean to marriage spain. No, I know. But maybe that was what it was. Anyway, I was

a brat about the movie, I admit. I think it expresses relationships as a negotiation, as a constant state of impossibility and affection

that I don't think I've seen articulated in many other movies. Not my best picture pick of that lineup, but... It's a good lineup. It's a good lineup full of good movies. Not hating three billboards really frees me spiritually, I feel like, in a lot of ways. I feel like I am unburdened by a lot of things by not having to carry that weight.

So that's nice. Well, now people hate on shape of water because they look at that and they're like really why would this win blah blah blah it's like this is less than a decade ago guys we we under like at the time it made i'd have voted for like four movies fully ahead of the shape of water but i still think it's delightful that that's a best picture winner it's all about kiyama del toro like it's all about kiyama dotoro like he'd been rising up in these ranks uh also what a weird movie to be best picture i fucking love that though like i love that this movie, this movie about, you know, fucking a fish man is the best picture movie. Of course there are other themes.

I think it's a movie about loneliness. I think it's a movie about politics. It is a movie about old Hollywood in a way. But it is also a movie about a woman fucking a fish man. And I think that's beautiful. Romance as the ultimate understanding. If pride can't also be about a woman fucking a fish man, then I don't know if Pride can mean anything at all.

LGBTQIAF plus. Yes, exactly. What does the F stand for? Don't worry about it. Fish fucking. Don't worry about it. It's fine. You just go on your way there, ma'am.

Too many letters. The alphabet people. Yeah. Well, the fish fuckers will be heard from is what I will say. All right. What does the fish fucking pride flag look like? It's a good question. It's a good question.

It's like a Jesus fish, but... I feel like it's shades of water. So it's like it's blue tones, but instead of being horizontal or vertical, it's at an angle. So it's like it's perpendicular to the flag's four points, but it's shades of blue. That's the fish fucking flag. Sure. Okay. I like that.

So like the colors are specifically... like encountering each other at sexy angles. Yeah. All right. Okay. I'm into it. All right. I want to go back to talking a little bit more about BPM specifically.

Yes. Because I'm not done sort of heaping my praise on it. Oh, so we were talking about the fact that like foreign language films are still sort of inching their way towards being contenders in things like acting categories. and it would have been very good for a movie like BPM, which is full of, I think, some really, really great performances, although it is one of those movies that I think there are such a, like, uniform level that, you know, a lot of people are at, like, just so many of the cast members are giving great performances that I'm not sure who you would naturally sort of, elevate. There's no sort of like natural like I mean Miss Carr was on my ballot me too me too

was definitely on mine Adele Hanel should be on ballots like people who you know were over the moon for her in Portrait of a Lady on Fire some of us were like well real heads no so I will take you I will refer to you to the Cesar Awards

that year which are essentially the French Oscars, where BPM wins Best Film. Not Best Director, though. Not Best Director. Best Director went to Albert DuPonté, DuPontel. See you up there. Not a movie I have seen.

But, oh, wow, Campillo is nominated for BPM, Julia Dukernau for Raw, Hazanavisius for Redoubtable and others. So, Antoine, Reynars wins best supporting actor. Well deserved. He's so fucking good in this movie.

He plays Tebow, who is the sort of de facto leader of this group, even though I feel like I think if you had pulled the members of the group, they would probably say that there's, you know, many leaders or no leaders or whatever. But he definitely like takes a leadership position is a little pompous or sort of. of like is a little certain of himself in terms of like he's real, real confident that his way is the right way and his ideas are the right ideas. And he comes into conflict with people like Sean and Max and sort of the more sort of, I wouldn't say more activists, but like they're the people who are like, it's cool that we like. Willing to piss people off. It's cool that we handcuffed, you know, these guys. Willing to piss people off, but they are also the ones who are like we want to do cheerleaders for the parade. We want to do like, they're just sort of like,

I think maybe more demonstrative just in a lot of ways. They feel younger. They feel like there's a younger sort of sensibility there, even though I don't think their actual ages are all that different or all that, you know, far apart. But Rynarts is so good at sort of towing the line with Tebow, where he sort of shows you the parts of him that like you can understand why there are people who are annoyed with him, but you also see the parts of him that feel like I am just trying to keep us on task here. I'm just trying to make sure that we are like being tactically, you know, smart when we do this. He's incredibly, you know, trying, and he's, you know, trying to, you know, pull that together while also at the same time being like super hot for

the young guy. What's his second? What's that character's name? Nathan, super hot for Nathan. And then, like, one of the, like, one of the things that I love about the end of this movie is, like, at the little, like, vigil right after Sean dies, where Nathan's, this goes to Tebow is just like, you want to, like, stay over tonight. And he's like, yeah, he's like, so we'd, like, be fucking and whatever. And Nathan's just like, yeah, obviously. And then that, of course, like, you know, Nathan sort of has a, has a, you know, sobbing breakdown in that. But, like, I love the sort of, like, the messiness of that, where it's just like, oh, yeah, like, Tebow's been hot for him kind of this whole time. And are they going to sort of like...

Well, in movie language so often, especially gay movie language, it forces those things to be separate, you know, that these people can't be... Friends and fucking at the same... Well, but also, like, the historical context and what the plot of this movie is, you know, it pushes, I think, queer characters into boxes of who they have to be narratively, that it doesn't always represent real people. Yes, yes. Adele Hainel is nominated for Best Supporting Actress at The Cesar. So good in this movie. She's like the organizational muscle.

Like, she's good at pressing. and holding accountability. It's the eyebrows, I'm telling you. They are authoritative. They are, you listen when those eyebrows speak. I know that she has somewhat removed herself from the industry, and it upsets me because I think she's one of her generation's greats. Yes. And then Noel Perez Biscayar wins Most Promising Actor.

I love that on the Wikipedia page, it tells you, who presents each award, presented by Juliet Benoche, which is pretty cool. And also Arnaud Valois was nominated for promising actor as well. So you had two people from BPM competing against each other. Nathan is, Valois, I don't think, is anywhere near the most impressive performance. But I do think there's a certain level of honesty. This character is presented with that it's like, he's the hot guy. He shows up in the group.

The group thinks he's the hot guy. Yes. And while not, you know, making it some giant leap that it's like, well, actually, he's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. He's still kind of allowed to just be the hot guy, but still is shown over the course of the movie to have his substance. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I absolutely. But not in some grand scheme or grand sense that is more movie and less real world. It's still, you know. The scene where they're passing out condoms and. information at the school, safe sex information at the school. And the one girl was like, I don't need a condom. I don't have sex with filthy gay people or whatever. And Sean just like pulls Nathan over and just starts making out with them in front of this girl. And she's like, eh, and he runs away. Um, always in favor of that. Always in favor of a defiant makeout in

the movie like this. Um, yeah, I love this cast. I have my like my little favors. I love Helene, played by Catherine Vinetier, and her son who, there's the one moment where he's telling Jeremy, the one who dies in the middle of the movie, telling him how to mix up fake blood for the fake blood bombs that I just found like, I loved those little touches where it's just sort of like, again, these, you know, they're being practical as well as, you know, I also love the son when Helene brings him over right after Sean has died. And they're like, how are you doing? And he's like, good, I just don't want to see the body. And he looks to Nathan and he's like, is that okay? Like, sort of wonder, like, sort of maybe a little worried that like Nathan's

going to, like, someone's going to be mad at him for not wanting to see the body. And he's like, no, that's like totally fine. I just like, that scene is absolutely perfectly targeted to me because it's one of those things where it's just like in this moment where, you know, something so tragic and sad has happened that all of these people with all of their differences and all of their sort of like small little, you know, tactical, whatever differences can all sort of come together and just show so much grace and kindness to each other. And like even the mom who, you know, you can imagine there's any, you know, all sorts of, you know, baggage there and whatever. And by the end of the movie, they're like, you know, amicably dividing up the ashes, you know, to she wants to keep some, but then they want, you know, some to sort of throw in this protest.

and I just find it so uplifting by the end this horrible thing has happened and they're still in the midst of this crisis and we know from our knowledge of history that like there's so much so much more farther to go and yet in this moment they can all show up for each other in a way that feels very like again

I know people sort of like laugh at the idea of like chosen family because, like, Rupal cried about it on an episode of Drag Race that we watch all the time now. But, like, I don't, I don't find that corny. I don't find the concept of Chosen Family to be corny. I do, I am very, like, weirdly sincere about that. It's the packaging of it. It's heterosexual people packaging the idea of chosen family, finger quotes, for gay people. But why are we allowing that to, to take this from us, though?

I mean, I don't think, I think we're just. not specific at the thing we're rolling our eyes at, because of course, everybody does have chosen family, and it matters very much to them. But I'm very much a sucker for a chosen family narrative, and that's why I love this, it's why I love pride. That's why, I don't know, any number of different movies. There's a galvanizing effect to this movie, you know, especially coming off of that scene and how graceful it is. I think that that shot where you see them all together in the same frame as we see the body in the other room is just an incredibly powerful image.

And then the way that it moves into this montage of protest and dancing, you know, much in the way that the beginning of the movie filmed, like, it has this cyclical effect that I find to be realist but also optimistic. that is very, very moving and galvanizing at the end of this movie that... Can I actually double back for a second, though? Because, like, to Chosen Family, because one of the things that's interesting about BPM is it's a chosen family, but it's also kind of not, right? You wouldn't, these people wouldn't necessarily have chosen these other specific people to be their, you know, their brethren and this. Like some of these people really sort of, but that's so much the point of BPM is that like you are family by, the movie doesn't even truck in the language of family. I will. You are bonded to each other by your shared, by your shared circumstances, by, you know, by this disease, by this discrimination, by the fact that history has placed you in the cross-hairs.

hairs of this sort of, you know, plague. And you are now sort of, you know, lashed together to fight it. And these are your allies. This is your platoon. You know what I mean? And maybe these aren't exactly like the people you would have chosen to like, you know, be bonded with in this way. But you are going, but then that is also kind of family. This is the nature of coalition. Right, exactly. And it's just sort of like, this is who you're working with. And this is who, you know, you have this sort of shared purpose with. And I also find that then to then take, to go from that to a very familial moment like you do with the sort of, with the, with the vigil at the end of the movie, that to me is what I find particularly beautiful. I mean beauty abounds in this movie. Beauty of bounds. I wrote down a couple different, um, slith.

Who is, I can't remember who was the one who said molecules for anal sex fools as a, as a slogan. There are moments of that where it's like slogans that it's like, when you think of the idea of like marketing and slogans, it's so based in language that the translation, it's like, I get what they're trying to do, but like the translation doesn't quite work that it's like, if I don't speak French, I don't really get the nuance of what this slogan is. And it's like it's a rough translation. How relatable were some of those squabbles, too? How relatable was it where it's like they got on Helene's case for advocating for the heads of, you know, the health ministry that ignored AIDS that she wanted, mentioned wanting to put them in jail. And they're like, we don't advocate jail because jail is a place where, you know, where they don't. you know, people are not protected from getting infected. And it's just like these, you know, these sort of burrowed down issues that are important, but also like...

The granular nuance. The granular nuance. The one where I think Tebow at one point is like, we want to focus on what's important. Like, how do antiretrovirals interact with ecstasy? And I sort of like had a chuckle because it's just like, that's real granular, man. Like, that's real specific. And yet, like, the person he was arguing with was like, yeah, that's important. And you're like, I mean, yes, I imagine that would be important when you're dealing with, you know, people who you want to at least get people as informed as possible about the fact that, like, if you're taken, you know, anti-retrovirals, you know, you can't do ecstasy or, you know, whatever.

Right. Well, but, like, that also speaks to the difficulty. of demonstration and organization and staying on message for that demonstration because it's like if you've chosen to demonstrate about this issue it can also be hard to stay

on message to that issue that's important for that particular demonstration. How relatable is that for like so many issues of like how many times have you seen people on the left who like have a shared purpose like sort of break down in terms of like squabbling over, well, we can't allow for this. Well, we can't, you know, include this person because, you know, they think this about this. And it's just like, at some point you just want

to just be like, eye on the ball, eye on the ball. And yet, which is not to say that like these little issues don't matter because they also do. It's inherently difficult and maybe in ways that we don't always have our eye on. It's why it's easier to be conservative because conservatives can just put their heels in the ground and say no to all of this, and it's easy. It's easier to build a conservative coalition. I've always, I've always thought so. Because, yeah, they, they don't have to be coherent in their ideology. That's not, yeah, you know what I else, I really liked about this was the, the thing where you can't smoke in the room, you have to go out into the hallway. But if you go out to the hallway to smoke, you can't.

engage in debates because that takes the debate out of the room. And I was like, that's such a procedural nuts and bolts thing that feels so incredibly specific and really goes a long way towards making this particular group feel very sort of, very realistic and very lived in, is this idea that, like, you can tell why do they have that rule? Because too many people were going out into the hall to smoke and like getting into these, you know, debates. And then they would have to come back in and, like, tell everybody what they were arguing about because, you know, and it's just like, oh, right, like these things all happen because they've been, you know, going through these meetings for like ever and ever and ever.

The, oh, the other moment that I wanted to mention is when Jeremy, the one, the young man who dies towards the middle of the movie. and he has this sort of voiceover monologue where he's talking about the 1848 student protests and why he wants his body to be sort of paraded through the streets as a protest after he dies and there's an incredible switch to video, to digital, to, you know, video aesthetics for that, which to me I was like, oh, this is really effective.

We've seen a lot of other movies sort of like attempt that, I think recently too. It was sort of playing around. Specifically to invoke early 90s. To invoke early 90s. And I'm just like, oh,

like it really, it's really effective. It really works because it gives you a sense of the visibility that they seek is to get this stuff onto people's television. on to in front of people. And it also reminds you, if you lived in the 90s, you would see this stuff on the news.

And you would see this stuff on like MTV News or whatever. And you would see. And it's just like, it's a reminder to like any time you saw anything about AIDS activism or AIDS sort of, you know, visibility at that time is because of these people in groups like this. you know what I mean and incredibly well done I thought this is a really

really well-directed movie incredibly well-directed movie and this did I write down I would also add in just our final notes section yes Bronsky beat as the short cut to

this is what being gay sounds like never incorrect Again. Again, another excuse me to talk about pride. You know, maybe at some point it will be like, okay, memorandum on using Bronsky Beat in gay movies anymore. We can't do it anymore. But like, you know, that time should have already come up and it hasn't happened yet. Yeah. Oh, I should also say, I was at the New York Film Critics Circle Dinner that year that they gave this award to. This movie also won New York Film Critics and Los Angeles. Angeles film critics.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Um. What else was going on? I guess maybe...

Is that everything? Is that everything that I've written down? Let's see. Dance Code scene. It is a pretty gay Oscars, and it all gets pinned on Call Me by Your name, but you also have other queer movies like Fantastic Woman, Yancey Ford's Strong Island. I like Strong Island.

Documentary nominee. Mm-hmm. D. Reese is nominated only for screenplay, but still, still. Yeah, and we've talked about like Battle of the Sexes that year. And I mean, it feels like we talk about the 2017 year a lot, but like it's a, it's one of those rare years where like the movie year is good and the Oscar year is good. And that doesn't always work out that way. But like, this particular year, it really does. overlap one to one, the then diagram of good movies and good Oscars.

It includes some of the same movies, but then there's still other greatness that's not. Princess Sid was this year, an incredibly wonderful queer movie. What other queer movies do I remember from this year? The Ornithologist. Do you remember The Ornithologist? Oh, yeah. Hot, Hot movie about having sex with Jesus out on Walkabout or whatever. Um, yeah, good here.

Should we move on to the IMDB game? Hey, let's, why not? Would you like to explain the IMDB game to our listeners? Sure, every week we play the IMDB game. That is where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles released here's as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints.

How have you been feeling about this? Have I been too mean to you? Do I need to be super nice to you today? You don't need to be super nice to me. Listen, I'm not going to give you Will Smith, who we have never done, but it's so easy. Easy. So easy. It's made even easier because then I tell you there's one television in there, and it's just like it just got like.

Oh, I wonder what it is. 80% easier. All right. Then for you, we're just charging ahead. I'm not even going to ask you if you want to give her guess first. I chose Diane Kruger. Oh, lovely. Okay.

This is fun. Previously mentioned as Can Best Actress Winner for this year. For this movie for In the Fade. I'm going to guess In glorious Bastards. Correct. Troy? Incorrect. No Troy.

She plays the titular Helen of. Hell enough. All right. What's the movie where somebody plays a drag queen named Hell on a Handbasket? I can't remember. I think that's an actual, like, famous drag queen. But I also feel like that was used in a movie somewhere. Isn't Helen a Handbasket a New York queen?

I'd believe it. All right. Ms. Diane Krugier. Oh, she's in the one movie with Liam Neeson, where is it like unknown or something like that? I can't believe you got unknown. Yeah! I gave you years.

Fuck yeah. Okay. Well, because I remember, wasn't that also on like January Joneses or something like that? Possibly. I think she's on the poster for it. Is she a national treasure? National treasure is correct. Is she a national treasure too, Book of Secrets?

Incorrect. Okay. So what's my missing? Your year is 2017. Oh, is it in the fade? Ah, fuck, stupid. I should have guessed that right away. Why is that movie?

I mean, she won awards for that movie. Yes. It's just miserable. What's the closest do you think Diane Kruger ever made it to an Oscar nomination? I mean, that movie. You think so? Yeah. Yeah.

She could have been a supporting nominee for Inglorious Bastards that they pushed her more. Yeah, she'd have been a good one. Yeah. She'd have been a good one. All right. For you, I chose. chose one of the other nominees for Best Director at the Cesar Awards that year, director of Barbara, Barbara, please. Matthew Amarique.

Matthew Amarique. Haven't you given me Matthew Al-Maric for me? I thought so, but I looked it up. Or maybe I gave you. I don't see. Oh, yes. Yes. If it's not recent, we can still do it.

No, it's somewhat recently. It's from last year. So I thought so. Should I give you a nils a rest trip? No. Okay, here's what we're going to do. Here's what we are going to do. One of the presenters at the Caesars that year,

who we have not done since 2019. So it's been six years. and I guessed it, so you haven't even ever guessed this. You're going to do Juliet Benoche. Okay. Most recent can jury president and politically incoherent, wakadoo. French? What? Well, English patient.

Yes, correct. Three colors blue. Yes, correct. How many of these are going to be English language movies? She won K& Best Actress for Certified Copy. So I'm going to say Certified Copy. Should be, but isn't. Really good this had Oscar Buzz episode.

Yes, and also just amazing movie in general. Masterpiece. Masterpiece movie. Okay. What other... Cashet? Not cachet. Your years are 2014 and 2017. 2017.

So this year we're talking about, which... Was she in one of the Cannes movies we mentioned? I don't think so. What else? Oh, is one of them Dan in real life? No. That'd be incredible, though. No, not Dan in real life.

Are these both English-language movies? Yes, although not entirely. I think both of them. 2014's Godzilla? No. Wow. Very good guess. Both are in English as well as other languages.

Oh, then 2014 is Clouds of Sils Maria. It is. I want to double check now and make sure the set 2017 also has multiple languages. I'm pretty sure. Details, languages, yes. Let the sunshine in? No. No, it is.

One of my favorite Benosh performances. Lower your brow, I would say. Not like super low. But multiple languages. Yes, multiple languages. Primarily English. Yes, but also the multilingual nature of it sort of plays into what kind of movie it is. No, what kind of movie it is. It's a remake. So the other language is the

the original. The culture from which it is being remade. Controverse. Oh, it's ghost in the show. It sure is ghost in the shell. I was going to say, for a period of time in the late teens, Julia Pinoche kept playing doctors. And so, because right, because isn't she? a scientist in Godzilla and also in high life? Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So, for a while there, there was just a lot of lab coats. A lot of lab coats for Juliette bonoche in many different ways. She plays in Ghost in the Shell, Dr. Ulet.

So there we go. Yeah, quite an odd. I mean, a lot of those, obviously English patient makes sense. Clouds of Sils Maria makes sense. Three colors blue makes sense. Ghost in the shell sure doesn't. But in a... All the bros.

Checking up. up on the ghost-in-the-shell movie. I guess, man. Hey, bros, go watch Dan in real life instead or something. Anyway. Go watch an Acey-O-S movie. Well, yeah. Go watch Certificed copy.

Summer hours. You fucking... Summer hours. Summer hours, sure. Summer not. Go watch Breaking and Entering. Did you say Summer Hour, Summer Not? Right.

Watch Breaking and Entering, Anthony Mangela. Oh, we should do that movie. We should. For now, that's our episode. If you want more this at Oscar Buzz, You can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Instagram at this had Oscar buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you?

I am on Blue Sky and Letterboxed, both at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. You can also sign up for my Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore. I call it Demi, myself, and I. And we do three episodes per month as we chart the, uh, the career of Demi Moore recently. I had my good pal, Chris, here talking about the Austin Powers

movies, because guess who produced those movies? Yeah, baby. Demi Moore. Very fun episode. Really fun episode. And yeah, come subscribe to the Patreon and go listen to me yak on about Demi. And you can find me on Letterbox, Dan Blue Sky, at Chris V File.

That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Meebius, for their technical guidance and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility, so I guess spread lots of queer love this season.

As we move from gay pride into gay rage, show these two gay guys some love with a five-star review. I was going to say, don't forget the love. We fight, we struggle, we rage. Well, it's always, it's always queer love. But we celebrate, but also celebrate, I think. Get angry. Get angry.

That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more boss. We really are just sort of like, frickin' frack, yin and yang. I'm like, have fun, and you're like, get mad. Be pissed. All right. Okay, bye. Thank you.