This Had Oscar Buzz - 349 – The Deep End (with Bobby Finger!)

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

We’re thrilled to welcome back author and Who? Weekly co-host Bobby Finger this week to talk about a fun modest thriller that helped turn one of our favorites into an industry darling. In 2001, director duo Scott McGehee and David Siegel brought thriller adaptation The Deep End to Sundance starring queer art cinema icon Tilda Swinton. As … Continue reading "349 – The Deep End (with Bobby Finger!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hack and friends. Dick Pooh. He was killed, and now he was here. There are some mysteries. They're saying someone harder, then.

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Are you expect me to get $50,000 in 24 hours? That's the position you were in. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that knows not to debate policy while smoking out in the hallway. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my soulful bagman. Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. I feel like most of my responses to these are always I've been called worse, but I've truly been called worse than I. Gorin Vizhnik, what a moment. We'll certainly get into it. As is our custom, we're going to waste no time inviting in our guests because, A, they deserve to speak and enjoy all of the conversational fruits of our labor. not bring in the guests. Well, exactly. And also, you know, as you know, I get very, very nervous having a guest that we don't introduce. So we have a returning guest, one of our faves, co-host of the Who Weekly podcast, author of The Old Place and Four Squares.

Bobby Finger, welcome back to this had Oscar buzz. Hello, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me back. Thoughts on Gorin Viznick. For a movie I really like, thoughts on Gorin. I never watched DR. Oh, okay. Well, there we go.

Yeah, yeah. My Goren connection is the deep end and beginners, and that's kind of it. There you go. Wasn't he also one of the people expected that was on like the list for Wolverine? He was on a list for some super hero. He was on lists for a lot of things I feel like back then. Yes. If for no other reason, then ER was very popular.

He was the guy, if you're listening and you don't quite know. He was the guy who was cast as George Clooney was leaving ER. And so he kind of got saddled with, he's the guy. replacement for George Clooney, which wasn't quite exactly it, even though he sort of filled in a few of the, um, sort of the narrative functions of Clooney's character, but I think it was a lot of, um, a lot of expectation hung on Gore and Vizhnik and Mori Tierney as well, because Mori Tierney, Mori Tierney in, in Juliana Margulies's final episode, it's like Moratirney's first episode maybe. I think it was like that tight of a of a of a crossover. And so there was a lot of

pressure put on them. And they ended up handling it very well. They both lasted long. Moriturni became kind of like the central hub of ER for a while. I'm just going to ER spain. This is fun. I enjoy doing that. Can you also Pan Am explain for us too? Because he was a cast member of Pan Am. Okay. So I was working at ABC when Pan Am. I was like, was this your ABC era? Yes, it was my ABC era that was definitely on like the pile of pilots that I watched no pun intended um and that was what it was margot Robbie um Christina Ricci and I can't remember the third one might have been Leslie Bibb honestly but now I want to look it up and see we talk about movies that only exist as a poster pan am is a television show that only exists as a poster pan am also might have been the same season as um NBC's the playboy club or whatever remember when NBC did a whole series on, which was like Laura Benanti was in that one. Uh-huh. Let's see.

Kelly Garner was the other one. Remember when the era of Kelly Garner? Before Julia Garner came and sort of stole it all the way. Was she Kelly with an eye? Yes, she was. Kelly Garner with an eye. Okay, that's kind of the only thing I remember about Kelly Garner. She was in Lars and the Real Girl.

That's the other big thing that I remember her. She was in Lars and the Real Girl. She was sort of the, she was the actual. real girl that they wanted to set him up with. Other cast members of the Playboy Club include Eddie Sibreon, Amber Hurd, Jennifer Lewis, and my beloved David Grumholtz. Eddie Sibreon being on the Playboy Club,

and then Mike Vogel being on Pan Am are like, those two had to be cast in something every TV season. If they were not already on a show, you had to put them on a show. But yeah, that was probably, So Pan Am was 2012. No, it premiered in September of 2011. So this was a good couple years before the Wolf of Wall Street.

So this was definitely would have been the first thing I had ever seen Margo Rabian because it's even before I would have seen her in, or no, wait, about time was also 2013, wasn't it? Yeah, so this is well before I would have seen her in anything. Yeah, what a moment. What a time. Um, anyway, any who, uh, Bobby, you, uh, did we match you up with the deep end, or did you pick the deep end? I can't quite remember. No, you matched me with another movie that I had never seen. Oh, right. And was sort of like, I don't know. I mean, I, I, I, I tried to politely request, could I do something else? And you gave me a list. You gave me a very, you don't have to be quite so polite next time. But yes, this, we, uh, we are happy to match you with you.

the movie that you would like to do. You gave me a list of movies and there were like six on there that I was like, oh, I'd love to do this. But so when I gave my like top three, the deep end sort of like was the one that everyone agreed on and it was honestly the one that I wanted to do because I do think this movie is really good. And I do think it's like weirdly kind of forgotten. It is kind of forgotten.

Yeah. And even though it, she was nominated for Golden Globe for it and it was just, that was a hard year for her. Like no one was. Yeah. Yeah. No one was going to win. We'll talk about best actress later on in this episode, but that was a field that, like, weirdly firmed up pretty solidly.

Like the top five that year were really, really kind of in lockstep for the most part. And Tilda was sort of riding in sixth place, I feel like. But we'll definitely, we'll definitely talk about that. It's an interesting movie in that, like, the filmmakers don't really have a long tail to their career. this is Scott McGee and David Siegel who have continued to make movies. And all the movies are fairly different from each other, so it is a really interesting directorial career. It's a lot of movies that, like, exist as titles, but even just, like, they exist

as titles for, like, people who are really, like, who kind of cover movies, maybe, because it's B season, the Robert, or the Richard Gear movie B season. Which I love. I haven't seen B season. When B season came out in theaters, first of all, the trailer, was really good, and one of those trailers that, like, does not represent what the movie is, like, at all. Is Benosh in that one? Yes, and she's so good.

She's a kleptomaniac. Amazing. She's a kleptomaniac has a breakdown. Amazing. It's so, she's so good. She has this incredible monologue while she's in her, like, kleptomaniac hospital. And Richard Gere goes and visits her, and I think about it all the time. But when that movie came out, I wanted to see it independently.

And then at some point after I had already seen it in the, like, small little, Indie Theater and Austin. Yeah. I realized it was the same directors as the Deep End. And I was like, wow, I love their movies. That's so interesting. But then they, like, the B season kind of flopped. Yeah.

I never heard from them again. I didn't even know they made The Friend until... I had no idea that it was the same people who did The Deep End, who did The Friend. I didn't know they made Montana Story until months after I saw it. You know, like... They directed a movie called Uncertainty that I looked... I saw the title and I was like, I've never seen that. And then I just clicked on it.

And I'm like, no, I did see it, actually. I saw it. It premiered at, like, IFC Center or, like, whatever, like, IFC Center was one of the first theaters in the country to play it. It's Joseph Gordon-Levett and Lynn Collins, which sort of, like, places you in the time. Like, remember when, like, Lynn Collins was the female lead of movies before John Carter destroyed so many careers? Oh, I've seen that. Wow. Right?

It's like a slide-in-doors plot. It's like Joseph Gordon-Levitt has, like, two, two. life paths diverge. And so I see that at IFC Center. I'm sitting on the aisle on the sort of right hand bank of seats on the aisle. And then the lights come up at the end and who's directly across the aisle from me is Joseph Gordon Levitt.

And I was just like, oh, okay. And then he went up and like said a few words afterwards. No, we were at the, okay, we were at the same. Were you at the same one? I saw the one that Jordan went to. Because I went to it because a friend had a spare ticket. And was like, Joseph Gordon Levitt's going to be at the premiere of his new movie, had never heard of it, had never seen a trailer.

And I went to it and he was there. And I was like, that movie was fine. It was fine, yeah. I haven't thought about this in... Exactly right. That's so funny that we were in that same theater, because this was definitely before you and I knew each other. That's really funny.

And this was absolutely right after I moved to New York. So I thought this was one of the coolest things in the world. Of course. Going to a movie theater and seeing somebody from the movie who's right there. I moved to New York in August 2009, and this was November 2009. Yeah. Wow. My friend Rebecca got me the ticket.

Yep. And then... And his name was Bobby. Yes. Then they just. directed a movie called What Maisie knew with Julianne Moore, who's playing like a, she's a mom, but she's also like a rock star, right? A rock star. And so she's like, it's like her and Alexander Scarsgaard are the parents. And it's like, are they good parents? Are they, you know, whatever. But it's like a divorce told through the eyes of a small child or something. Yes. Yeah. It's not, it's based on a Henry James novel, which. Sure. All right. Um, so it's a, it's an odd movie.

Julianne Moore is, of course, like, great in it. And it's, like, kind of a, um, not typical Julianne Moore movie, but it's another one that, like, makes absolutely no dent. I'd never heard of Montana story. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, COVID-Sun dance or COVID-Tiff, I think. But I, I haven't caught up to it. Haley Lou, right? Yeah, it's really pretty.

Hayley-Lew Richardson. Ointieg. Sure, sure, sure. I remember not connecting with it emotionally, but it's really beautiful. It was a TIF 2021 movie, which is another sort of that TIF I experienced remotely. So that one sort of hangs in this weird sort of like in-between space. And then, yeah, the friend, which came out this spring, which I saw at Tiff last year, that I actually quite liked. We did, what was our Naomi Watts movie that?

we did, Bobby, that you were on for our miniseries? Lay divorce. Lay divorce. I thought Naomi was really, really good in the friend. It's Naomi and a big old Great Dane. It's a case I haven't seen it yet. Oh, Bobby, I think you'll really... Yeah, I do.

I love the book. You hear the logline of this movie, too, and, like, I think if you don't know who Sigrid Nunez is, you read the logline and you might, you know, run in the opposite direction. but I think it is it is not the cloying cute C movie that it sounds like it is. I actually really liked it.

Yeah, it is a, I would categorize it. It's finally a reasonable rental. Yeah. What's that? It's finally like a $5 rental and I think I'm going to do it. Waiting out, the period between

waiting out a premium VOD rental and a regular VOD rental is sometimes longer than like theatrical theatrical engagement. Yeah. It's like, How long, and I keep going to check. I keep going to a bag of check.

I'm like, I'm not paying $19.99 to rent this movie, guys. Like, I will pay $3.99, like, a regular person. Drop has been $20 forever. It's finally $10. And I was like, I've seen all these other movies plummet down to $4.99 or $9.99. And drop is still 20. I think it finally went down. Drops the Megan Fahey one at the restaurant.

Okay, I saw that. Yeah. And I was like, I'm just making assumptions. and it's like, I listen to the town, but what do I know? It's like, they must not drop it if it's making money, right? Do they just not drop it? I think there's a certain studio that does it for longer. I'm sure there's a formula to it.

I'm sure there's like a whatever, a, you know, a algorithm for it. But wait. This is like how the Fableman's made $100 million or something on VOT, but we will never know. Megan Fahey's the one in drop. And then what's the other movie? that I will never see about the person or people who get stranded atop

the very, very tall antenna. Fall. Okay. All of these one-word titles that sort of mean the same thing, you've got to do better with the titles. I can't drop. That movie should not be called drop. It tells me nothing about like...

Not as bad as a single word title as uncertainty, which really tells you nothing about a movie. You tell me you saw a movie called uncertainty at the IFC Center, and I say that's true. I mean, yes. I still, I literally, you said uncertainty, I'm like, wait, what movie was that? And I'm like, right, right, I was just talking about it.

Right, okay. Yes. So, right, but so the deep end, which is a good title, because it means multiple different things. And I love a movie like that is a 2001 movie that definitely I, the degree to which I was, I followed the Oscar race at this point was very, very tied to the handful of websites that I followed at the time. So it was like the film experience, whatever site Chris Tapley was running at the time, like Gold Derby, Movie City News, whatever site. Wait, Tom O'Neill was running Gold Derby at that point. So anyway, all of these. And so the Deep End was a summer release, but it was a Sundance

movie. So it had sort of like, you know, it was a Sundance. movie that also played like Can. So it was sort of on the way for a while. So there was a lot of buzz for Tilda Swinton. And I had just figured out who Tilda Swinton was the year before, because the first thing I had ever noticed her in, and probably the first thing I ever saw her in full stop was the beach, where she plays the head of the island cult that Leo DiCaprio stumbles

upon and she and Leo have this like very aggressive sex scene that is viewed entirely through the cause yeah they're in they're in a little like canopy right and you only see it from in shadow from the outside but like you see just enough of it that just like they're kind of really going at it and i remember being like oh like okay uh but it's not unlike the uh um we did the austin powers episode of DeMe recently, and we talked about the scene with the tent where they're backlit from the tent and all the jokes about all the stuff. And it's just like, it's the same kind of premise. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I had, because I had never seen a Derek Jarman movie. I had never seen Orlando. I had never seen all of these. Like, I had no idea that Tilda Swinton

was this like, you know, underground, you know, legend of, you know, the new queer movies and whatnot. So I don't know what it was your, both of you, what were your experiences of Tilda Swinton pre, you know, crossover, I guess. I think this was the first performance of first that I'd seen because, I mean, I was in high school the time this movie came out. So I hadn't seen Derek German films at that point either. And I don't think I'd even seen the beach yet because I didn't see that in theaters. So this, probably my first time. All I knew is that it's this Scottish actress getting these rave reviews, and that's enough for me at that age. Yeah. Mine was probably adaptation.

Okay. Because I saw this, but she's barely in that, and she's, she's not playing a sort of typical Tilda Switten role. She's playing, like, what is she like, an editor or an agent? She's just like, She's his... A woman with an office job in L.A. Yeah. She's... Is she Merrill's agent? She's Susan Orleans agent who wants to hire Charlie Kaufman to adapt the orchid thief, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, and like all of her scenes are just like at lunch, right? Yes. And then an imagined sex scene. Uh-huh. Oh, the imagined sex scene, right? Well, because also in 2001, she's in Vanilla Sky playing kind of a similar role, right? Where she's like a woman at a desk. I've never seen it.

Still have never seen Vanilla Sky. Oh, Bobby. Oh, my God. I would love to hear what you make of Vanilla Sky. I've never seen it. That movie's insane. I think adaptation was the first time I saw her in a movie and the deep end, which I watched. I remember I was a freshman in college.

Yeah. And I was in a very like, no friends trying to make friends. But for the most part, I was at home watching Netflix movies on DVDs all the time that I was just like watching as many movies as I could get a Netflix. And I had heard this was good, presumably probably from my sister or something. Yeah. And I watched it. And this is the first time that I was like, who is this woman? Right.

This woman's incredible. Right. And then later on in college, I want to say freshman or sophomore year, early college in a film class, they showed us. We were doing like stuff, stuff on music videos, and we watched her orbital music video for the box. Oh. And I was like, oh, that's the woman from the deep end. And that video is so cool. I don't know if you've seen it.

I've never seen it. No, I've got to go check it out. It's, it's, it's, the whole thing is it's, um, it's orbital, so it's like techno, right, dance music, but she's, she's dressed in a very like, it, she's this androgynous almost like she's an android walking through, I assume London, I don't know, like a metropolitan European space. Yeah. And they, they keep the cameras on, um, what do you call that? Uh, time lapse. Oh, so she's moving very, very, very, very slowly while filming it. Yes. But everything else is passing normally. So at full speed, when she's walking normally, she's sort of moving in this

robotic way and everything else is speeding past her. It's just like visually really cool and she's just doing her like, who is this otherworldly alien woman? Like it's, it's so cool. It's just so, to me, that's like, Tilda Swinton. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, she's all, she always has this a little bit alien quality, a little bit androgynous quality. She's so striking even so it's like to see her when she's playing pale just like yes yes exactly very pale very angular very sort of like you know bird like features and um so when you see her in a more or less normie role like in the deep end or like in michael clayton she brings a um she brings a quality to her character being

afraid of things or her character being overwhelmed by things that is really, it's really striking. It's, you know, it's something else. Well, that had to have been some of the revelation of this movie when it came out, too, to, you know, the critical community who did know Derek Jarman films, which are all very, you know, heavily stylized. And then she can go and lead this very good but very straightforward normie movie and just like crush it. She's like part of the reason why this movie is so compelling. It's so funny too, to, and you're right to describe it this way, to describe the deep end as this, you know, normie movie, which for her it definitely was like the sort of extreme normie end of the spectrum for her.

But this is a very sort of of its time indie movie with a kind of a hot button plot at the center of it. The whole idea that her, you know, her son is this senior in high school and he's, you know, in a sexual relationship with Josh Lucas and his deeply sinister facial hair who is, I believe they say he's 30. and this, which is this incredible sort of like, it's this taboo, but there are shades of gray and it's, you know, what's going on. There's obviously a, you know, fucked up power dynamic and Josh Lucas is not a good guy. But there's a lot of, you know, there's messiness at the middle of this. And it's sort of, it ensures that this is not a movie that's going to sort of play far and wide. And, but it's, you know, easily the most normal movie. It's, you know, easily the most normal movie Tilda's made probably in her career up to this point, which I think is very

interesting. I finally saw my first Derek Jarman movie this week. So I'm doing my... I'm glad you loved too. Well, it's one of those things where I started to watch it. I'm like, is this maybe just like not for me? Because it's so incredibly stylized. It's, it's, um, watching it, I obviously was trying. I was struggling to figure out whether movies that I've seen more recently like the tragedy of Macbeth or even like Rosencranton Gildenstern or dead, which we did recently for the podcast, I was like, are they indebted to this or are they all indebted to this sort of earlier style that I maybe just didn't, you know, am not as familiar with because I didn't go to film school or whatever. But regardless, I'm like, this is all sort of like, we're all sort of referencing on referencing, on referencing. But the, you know, the fact that these all sort of, all these scenes seem to be taking place in these empty spaces within like stone walls or whatever. It's like a in a labyrinth. Right, right.

And also that it's, you know, it's based on this, you know, Christopher Marlowe. play. So there's an old time, you know, there's a classicism to it. And yet it's very obviously also very, you know, cutting edge in this, you know, it's Edward II and his gay lover. And Jarman very intentionally sort of musses up with the time and space. There's a lot of modernity to it and all that sort of stuff. But I eventually sort of like you sort of melt into it and you give yourself over to it and it becomes really, really interesting. And then Tilda shows up, maybe a third of the way into it. And initially, I'm like, oh, this would have been like a really early Tilda role. She's like the wife. She's probably going to be the wife.

And, you know, sort of, you know, it's cast aside by, you know, her husband so that he can go fuck around with his incredibly toxic demon twink a favorite um you'll find plenty of demon twinks in uh some of those early germans and then her role becomes so much more and so much more machiavellian and so much more you know she's so prominent in it but anyway um yeah i was really glad i saw it definitely and this is the one that she won the venice prize for Tell the people at home what that prize is named after. The Vulpe Cup named after a famous Italian fascist, as we learned in our film festival miniseries. But, like, once you sort of see that back half of the movie, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, this makes a ton of sense.

And it makes a ton of sense also that, like, she became such a thing. Like, I imagine if you were, like, a real cinephile in the, you know, 1990s, you were... you were real, you were real annoying about Tilda Swinton. And you were probably really gatekeeping about Tilda Switten back then. Well, I mean, like, you watch the Jarmann movies and you're reminded, oh, we really used to have much more of an art cinema that was closer to the art world than it was to, you know. It really doesn't exist anymore. I mean, it does.

It's just like it, it's very, very limited. basis and like, you know, things that exist purely in art museums and not really an independent cinema. That's sort of what I mean. It's like it doesn't really exist as a, it's not in the medium of film so much anymore. It's in like Matthew Barney stuff and whatever, which I don't even, I wouldn't consider film. I know some people have in the past, but I think it's, I think that's a little, it's a little overboard to call that stuff film.

But anyway, Bobby, are you familiar? at all with those Jarman movies? I haven't seen the Jarman movies, and that's a big blind spot. And that's when you were saying, oh, make your top five Tildas. I was like, I feel really unequipped to do this because I haven't seen the Jarmine movie. I've only seen the one. So you're a pretty good company. So my list is going to be missing kind of the stuff that made Tilda, Tilda.

I've still never seen Orlando. Oh, wow. Orlando's on my list. I feel like Orlando's probably, I'm getting the vibe of what that era of Tilda was because I've seen Orlando so many times. I mean, maybe it's more appropriate to say that Orlando is her first step into the mainstream rather than this movie. But it's almost a decade before this. Right.

Like, you know, it's 93, 93? 92. Uh. Is it 91? It might be 91. Orlando? I'm not sure when it was released. And even so, you know, that's Tilda Swinton giving this kind of other world. performance, you know, having the screen persona that is, you know, its own unique, obviously

the movie, you know, is about gender, but like she truly has this androgynous presence in the film. And then this is so normie. Yeah. Looks like Orlando was a Venice premiere in 92 and then was a 1993 movie for awards purposes. So, Two-time Oscar nominee, Orlando. That's, again, when we talk about how I wish the Oscars would reach, you know, outside of the Best Picture contenders for Kraft Awards, this is what I'm talking about, that Orlando could get to, to Oscar nominees and Art Direction costume design back then.

Orlando is one of my, the, one of my favorite unnominated original songs, too. Oh, yeah. The Sun for Orlando is so good. And it's like played There's a significant amount that it's played before the credits, although I don't mean you can correct me because you know the rules better than I do. This was before they had that rule where it had to be before the end credits.

Yes, but it's all like the era. It's the final closing part of the movie. Yeah. Speaking of music in Tilda movies around this time, there's a moment in Edward II where you think there is non-diagetic music on the soundtrack and then all of a sudden the person singing the song just like turns a corner and is there and like I kind of don't want to tell you because like I want you to sort of see it for yourself but I yelled I absolutely yelled and yelled so um it's on it's definitely rentable

because I definitely did not have to go too far out of my way to watch it but uh highly recommended um before we go too far Chris do you want to tell our listeners why they should sign up for our Patreon. Listeners, you've heard us talk about it. Here we are talking about it again. Our Patreon, This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent, Brilliance, is there waiting for you for only $5 a month. Joe, what are they going to get for $5 a month? Well, you're going to get two bonus episodes, the first of which arrives on the first Friday

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Bobby, I'm going to ask you to prepare to deliver a 60-second plot description for the Deep End while I deliver the particulars. We are talking about 2001's The Deep End this week, written and directed by Scott McGee and David Siegel, starring Tilda Swinton, Goran Viznick, Jonathan Tucker, Josh Lucas, Peter Donut, and Raymond J. Barry. It was distributed by Fox Searchlight Films, premiered on January 21st, 2001, at the Sundance Film Festival, where it won the Cinematography Award. It then played director's fortnight at Cannes the following April before opening in limited release

in the United States on August 8th, 2001, expanding wide. Wide, in quotes, because wide was like 300 theaters. On August 31st, Labor Day weekend, 2001, where it finished something like, 13th place to, among others, the premiere of Jeepers Creepers, a classic That was

that was the kind of movie you were getting in August around that era is that was when your Jeepers Creepers were premiering. Is Jeepers Creepers won the one that was directed by the rapist, or is that the second one? Oh, yeah. I think it's all of them. Okay, it was the first one? I thought so. And I like that

movie and I can't even I can't even watch it. It's a good movie, right, but you can't, you can't You can't revisit it. Nobody can really like... That's why you can't revisit Powder either. Remember Powder. Yeah. Although I do feel like I would be more inclined to revisit Jeepers Creepers than I would to revisit Powder.

But who knows? The horror from that era that kind of reminds me of Jeepers Creepers that has replaced Jeepers Creepers for me and, like, Halloween rewatches is Joy Ride, which I think is so much fun. The John Doll movie? Yeah. Nice. Nice. That one I remember mostly for the screen grab of... of Paul Walker and Steve Zahn with their butts out.

But, like, is Lili Sobieski also in that movie? Oh, she is. Yeah. Talk about a marker of, like, you know exactly what three or four years a movie is from if you see Lili Sobiesky. Well, this top five for this weekend, like, these are the posters you see in Secret 9-11 movie, remember me that tells you that it's Secret 9-11 movie. This was my, famously, I was able to figure out the twist and remember me because they saw American Pie 2 at the theater. And it seems so strange. than a movie that came out then would have them seeing American Pie 2.

But yeah, Rush Hour 2 is top five this week, the others, and Rat Race. Rat Race is one of those movies that I feel like is very important to people just slightly younger than me. It's sort of in that hocus-pocus Hercules sort of demo, I feel like, are really, really into Rat Race. I like Rat Race. Was that just like on TBS a ton? Is that one of those things? All the time. And that's exactly why I liked it.

And I saw it in theaters because I loved it's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World was like very much like my dad imprinting that on me. I got to see that movie. This is the best movie ever made and you will watch it with me right now. And I was like, okay, and I loved it. And Rat Race is very much like Cannonball Run. It's the same idea. I want to see. I think that's a double feature I want to do one of these days.

Is Mad Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World and Cannonball Run. What did I just watch where it was Carrie Fisher? in a scene from Cannonball Run where she's a nun Was it Carrie Fisher? Was it for one of our episodes? It was. You mentioned it on a recent episode.

Yes, I did. And now I... My memory's so bad, you guys. I'm really going to come to still out. I just listened to that episode. Yes, that's what it was. But yeah, Man Man, Mad, Mad World is phenomenal. You would love it, Joe. Remember when there was a reality show called Cannonball Run 2001 that had, like,

famous people from other reality shows? I remember, like, Sue Hawk and someone were, like, And it was just like a cross-country race. It was kind of amazing. Okay, so Cannonball Run, I think it was the first one we were talking about, sequel to The Cannonball Run. And those people included Jackie Chan was in that movie, Jamie Farr, Adrian Barbeau. Maybe it was Cannonball Run, too. I think it was Cannibal Run, too.

I'm trying to remember. It was Shirley McLean and Mary Lou Henner were both nuns, were actresses dressed up as Because it's her Oscar follow-up, Cannonball Run 2. That's what it was. That's exactly, thank you. It was in our Adam Sussatka episode. Right, it was her follow-up movie to her Oscar win. She did Cannonball Run 2, where she dressed up as in none.

Yeah, that's a weekend. That is a weekend triple feature that is waiting to happen. Maybe I'll make it quadruple and I'll watch Rat Race at the end and really sort of make it all happen. All right, Bobby, I'm going to put my stopwatch in my hot little hand. And if you are ready, the 60-second plot description of the deep end can begin now. Margaret lives in Lake Tahoe with her three kids and increasingly frail father-in-law. Her husband is in the Navy and is stationed somewhere in the North Atlantic, I think, so she's a single mom for the moment. She visits Darby at a gay nightclub he owns En Reno and says to stop seeing slash fucking her 17-year-old closeted gay son, Beau.

He refuses unless she pays him $5,000. When she tells this to Bo he doesn't believe her, but when Darby shows up wasted at their house that night, Bo asks if it's true and Darby doesn't deny it. bunches bow a couple times and bow runs off, totally missing the moment when Darley leans and falls through a fence and onto an anchor which impales and kills him. The next day, Margaret discovers the body and instantly is like, Will, I will cover this up for my son who definitely killed Darby. So she dumps the body in a shallow end of Lake Tahoe, after which it's quickly discovered that no one suspects her or her son. But then a guy named Alex shows up and says he'll give a video of Darby fucking boat to the cops implicating him in the murder unless she

gives him the $50,000 Darby owed them, but she doesn't have it. But Alex isn't very good at his job and starts empathizing with Margaret when her father-in-law has a heart attack and sees how much she's struggling. Meanwhile, Bo is so clueless that he doesn't consider Darby's death and his mom's skyrocketing stress levels are connected. Nagle eventually comes to the house demanding money, attacks Margaret, but Alec kills him before he can do much harm. Alic takes the body, puts it in Nagel's car and intentionally drives it off the road, killing both of them, saving Margaret and Bo's lives and reputations in the process. The end? The end. Twelve seconds over. Very good. Um, okay. Twelve seconds over is very much in line with what we do

We could never. We could never. And I didn't even, I think I put most of it in, but it's, you did. When I started, I was like, there's really not much that happens in this movie. Like, it's short, it's really tight. But as I was writing it out, I was like, wait, I kind of, you have to give some of the intricacies here, like, why he's asking for money. But also, like, it doesn't really matter. Yeah.

Ultimately. A few things that strike me about the plot of this movie are a few things that don't happen. I don't think Tilda and Jonathan Tucker ever actually, like, have it out, like, enlighten each other as to what did and didn't actually happen. Like, by the end of the movie, she still thinks he killed him, right? I think, so that was one of my questions that I was going to ask all of you. I don't think it's ever explained to her that, and I don't know if he ever cottons to the fact that she thinks he did. I think that at some point, I don't, I think the boy. Beau remains very clueless.

But I think at some point, Tilda realizes that she thought that the son, that Bo was either responsible for or saw it happen and is trying to hide it. I think at some point, Tilda realizes that he has no idea that it happened. And I think that that, and I think that's the moment where she's like, oh, this is my, I fucked up here. I think she ultimately realizes that she fucked up for not calling the copsets, like, the next morning or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the end, I think she realizes that her son is totally innocent of that.

And yet it's never, but it's not taken care of through this kind of, you know, scene between the two of them, which I think is interesting because I think that's one of the things that you would expect to have is the end of this movie is her son, she sort of breaks down at, you know, what classic this had Oscar buzz talking about the ending at the beginning. she breaks down, she's crying, and he comforts her, and it's the closest the two of these people have been throughout the movie, and you get the feeling, if there's anything to sort of be optimistic about by the end of this movie, it's that, it's that like this relationship that there has been a little bit of a bridge between the two of them in that it's almost

like, well, now, you know, my mom knows what it's like to have a secret to. You know what I mean? I don't know if he necessarily connects that on a conscious level, but it's like they both seem closer to each other without having to have the scene where it's like, but you killed him. No, I didn't. Like that kind of thing. You know what I mean? Well, the very final note of the movie is the father finally being able to call the family. So it's like the family unit is preserved. by the end of the movie. Right. But, like, I think there's something, I think that's part of what makes this movie so good, like a lean-in type of movie, is this element of suggestion throughout, because they also never really had the conversation of, so you're gay. Right. They never have that conversation. There's no conversation about the closet in this movie. She technically doesn't even ever, like, indicate that she's.

okay with it, right? She still mostly views his homosexuality as something that is dangerous for him. Well, she suggests that she, the main thing is she suggests that she is more okay with it than his father would be.

Right. Yes. He found out. She does say that. She does say that. Yes. I think she mostly just feels bad for him, which is very much a way that parents of gay children can be. Yeah. It's like, I'm not, I'm going to try not to be judgment. but I'm just going to

be overbearing with the fact that I am scared for you. And that's like bad in its own way. So much of this movie and like what's like really good about it. And it's interesting as a thriller that it is about this put like this parental instinct. You know, and when she's doing the cover up, her performance is so incredible because it's this thing of like she just clicks

into a mode of acting. and protecting and just doing. Like, she doesn't even really seem to know what she's doing. And it's, it's so good. But it's also interesting to watch on a character level, just like, the idea isn't that she has a calculated justification for this. It's just that she's jumping into mother mode. Every single...

It's really interesting to watch. It's really cool. Every single new thing she learns about this, she has to sort of, like, react to in the moment. sometimes that makes things worse, well, often it makes things worse. That also, that tendency to sort of not be quite so overt is also present in the relationship with her and the Goren Vizhnyk character, who in almost any other movie you would imagine them sleeping together or having some sort of thing where their clear, you know, attraction

to each other sort of bubbles over into something. And what you get instead is this immaculate scene at the end of the movie after the car crash where he's like, he knows he's dying, more or less. And he's like, the videotape and the money are in the car somewhere. You have to take them and leave. And so she's leaning into the car to search for these things. And their mouths are like millimeters apart from each other. And it's this incredible shot from like inside the car. Yeah, the way that it's shot is, it's stunning.

And their mouths are so close to touching and it's obviously not like an erotic scene textually, but like it's visually is really, really incredible. I was just sort of holding my breath throughout that whole scene. And I think that like there's, at the end, Nagel, who I think is, if I have a problem with this movie, it's the whole Nagel character. The other, the monster partner guy. He makes the movie sort of cartoony in a way that it avoids. being basically its entire run until he shows up. Yeah. But I think there's something

kind of intentional about the fact that like A, yeah, they don't have sex, but there is some kind of like sparkling chemistry between the two of them because they're trying to figure each other are out for so much of it. That's why their first scene together when he shows up in the house is so thrilling because you're like, what is he going to do to her? Yeah. Is she

scared? Is he kind of intimidated by her in a way, which he is? But like, you kind of wonder when you first meet him because of Josh Lucas, you're like, this guy might be gay. Like, I really don't even know if he is straight. And I think that that is, it's meant to be kind of ambiguous at the beginning. Yeah.

Like, you're like, if this guy is associated with this gay bar, what's his vibe? And is the fact that he's gay actually going to make this more complicated or less complicated for her? But then ultimately, his sexuality isn't the point at all. Right. Because we're talking about Tilda Swinton. It doesn't matter if he's gay. Yeah, yeah, right. exactly and Josh Lucas isn't uncartoonish either at the beginning of this movie where again

I'm not like the facial hair really is um a lot it's and he sort of like emerges from the back room of the of the club which is also called the deep end um and it's the first thing you see and it's just like oh this guy and he's so oily and he's so slick and the way he talks to Jonathan Tucker where everything is just like, hey, beautiful, like, hey, gorgeous. Bobo. Yeah. And it's just like, oh, he's so incredibly slick and sort of awful. While at the same time, like, these relationships exist in the world.

These, you know, like, I, you know, know, know, know, plenty of people who as teenagers, like, had early sexual experiences with, like, people who were 10 years older. than them or whatever. And it's like, certainly not unproblematic, but it's also like not, you know, not a thing that happens. And I think the movie rides a decent line in sort of not being quite so hysterical about it while also sort of placing you in the position of Tilda's character who is just like, this is a, this is bad news from my son. Like this is a bad, bad situation. While also not going so far as to be homophobic, because I think a reactionary viewer could be like, well, this movie's homophobic, but I don't think it goes that far. I don't think either. I don't think either. But I also feel like it is probably a little bit dependent on the audience who's watching it.

Because I think anybody who, I think people like us who watch it and have, you know, a little bit more of a sense of. of the world. You know what I mean? Not to... A homophobic viewer could watch it and have a completely different experience with it. Exactly, exactly. And I think that's a lot of the times when people call a movie, when queer people call a movie homophobic, I think that is a lot of the time what it comes down to is if I place myself in the shoes of a homophobe, this movie's bad for us. And ultimately, I don't know how, I don't know that that's always the most helpful thing to engage.

And him being gay and closeted and in this secret romance with this older, you know, predator man. Yeah. The movie kind of, and I know it's based on a movie where it was about like a 17-year-old girl who is being, who was in a relationship with an older man. But like, it really helps solidify like the themes of this movie because she wants him, not only does she want him to admit that he killed this guy or was there when he died and whatever, she wants him to admit. she wants him to admit that she's seeing him and he refuses. So it's like the fact that he's keeping these secrets and they're both, it's like dueling secrets.

She thinks he's keeping two secrets. He's really only keeping one. Yes. He thinks that she's keeping a secret, but he's too clueless to figure out what the secret is. So it's just like, I think the movie doesn't work as well if the kid is not a closeted gay guy who's fucking a man. Yeah. The gay stuff in this movie, for lack of the better term,

gives this movie such an interesting edge because it is such a straightforward kind of thriller where a few major plot points happen and, you know, it's not all that complex otherwise. But the gay stuff adds so much complexity and enhances this like mother-son dynamic where they're not communicating. I also love the fact that we know what happened

from the beginning, that it's not this third act reveal where we flashback and we see that, oh, no, it was an accident all along. I'm glad that we know more than they do throughout most of the movie because it allows us to not be so wrapped up in the who done it as we are in the what these characters are doing when they don't have all the information and all the behavior. Did either of you see Echo Valley? No. No. Okay. Well, it's I can call it the shallow end. It's this movie, but really, really stupid. When did that come out? It's this movie that really, really stupid.

I think it just hit Apple. Two weeks ago. Yeah. Oh, okay. It's Julianne Moore. And Julian Moore is tremendous. Oh, the one with her and Sidney. No, I have not. And Sydney Sweeney is like in it. But Julianne Moore is so, so good in it. Okay. And she's this like lesbian, well, late in life lesbian who, you know, divorces her husband, who's Kyle McLaughlin their daughter is an addict and is really suffering and Kyle McLaughlin is like she leaves her to marry a woman. The woman dies so tragically. So suddenly Julian Moore blows up

her life, marries this woman and then the woman dies. And so she's like alone in her farmhouse raising horses. And Sidney Sweeney shows up and is like, I'm in trouble. This guy hurt me and he's dead. And so Julian Moore will do anything for her daughter. They live on a lake. She buries the body, chaos ensues, but without spoiling, you don't know what happened to the body until the end. I see. So there is literally what you are talking about, the sort of like, and here's what actually happened. And it's twisty and it's fun. And if that movie had come out in 1995, it would have made $80 million. Yeah. But like, it's, it's, it's trash. And this movie I don't, is not trash, you know, like, it's just, it's an Apple movie. Okay. Yeah. You should absolutely watch it

like tonight. Yeah. It's really, really satisfying. Oh, Dom Gleason is in it. Okay. Yeah, and he is, and much like Nagel, he is, I mean, the movie is pretty campy and silly overall, but Donald Gleason is like, I think he's good, but he's really cartoony. He is the bad guy, and he is a cartoon character. I love him, but I can see, I mean. Yeah, he's never bad. Even when he's cartoonish, like in those Star Wars movies, he's exactly. His beautiful long hair in it. Oh, I love him so much.

I absolutely love him. Raymond Barry in this movie, the most sinister person to ever wear. a bolo. Yeah, he has a fucking bolo and is trying to tell Gorn Vishnik what to do. It's like, you're wearing a bolo, my guy. Did either one of you watch Justified at all? No. He was great on Justified.

He was Timothy Olifold's father. Did he wear bolos and justified? No, it wasn't quite Bolo. It wasn't, he was, because he's like, he's poor white trash in that movie, but he's also just like filled with just hate and anger and awfulness. So that's mostly what I know Raymond Barry from. So I also love the setting of this movie. Can we talk about Tahoe a little bit?

I wanted to. Four movies should be set in Tahoe. Half of the movies that are set in Long Island right now should be set in Tahoe. I've decided. It's just like it's not an environment you usually see in movies, period. But then you see that it's actually like the. perfect environment to bury a body. It's one of the deepest lakes in the world.

It's remote enough, but it's also, it has a little bit of, like, it tells you a little bit about who you are if you live in Lake Tahoe. It's proximate to Reno, so you can have sort of, like, you know, organized crime. Right, organized crime and vice sort of like, you know, just to stones throw away. It's a beautiful, like, location, you know what I mean? you get these, you know, wonderful sort of location shots. We should be filming in California more than we do. So I'm very much a proponent.

Well, and it's not like a cat skills kind of environment, you know. Like I was thinking of it as a counterpoint to like Martha Marcy May Marlene where that environment feels so sinister. But in the deep end, you know, it seems so wholesome. It's so picturesque. And yet this is happening within this. beautiful surrounding, I think, is interesting in this movie. You know, it adds to this whole idea of secrecy and, you know, buried truths. And I think, oh, sorry, go ahead, Bobby.

Well, I just, I think it's so interesting that the movie is called The Deep End. She lives on Lake Tahoe. She knows all about it, presumably. Yeah. And when she dumps the body, like Chris says, that opening sequence is hypnotic, because she just doesn't know what she's doing. Like, he said, he's in, she's in mother mode. She just has to do something.

Yeah. And she can't bring her, the fact that she cannot bring herself to put this body in the titular deep end. In the deep end of the lake. Because she's still, she's kind of scared of it. And she's like, it's like she has to look this secret. She's not actually capable of keeping this secret, right? Like, the fact that she's put it in the, over the shallow end of the, of the lake is like, really fascinating to me. Well, when she has to go back for the keys, thank God.

The body is basically hiding in plain sight. Yeah. Well, and also the title has a literal meaning because the deep end is the name of the gay bar, too. So it's like the movie's title itself is a secret, you know? Yes. Did you catch Josh Lucas's license plate? Oh, it happened too quickly. I was like, Josh. Josh Lucas in this movie is really, really good at playing just a total creep. I'm kind of a sexy one unfortunately I mean I'd misremembered his character I think this is like the second time I've watched this this year because this movie

has shown up on Criterion Channel quite a bit which is nice because a lot of people are like catching up to this movie and they're like oh I didn't know that this was such a like good movie but I'd misremembered Josh Lucas as a pornographer in this movie which like it's because there's the video it's because of the video but he has this

like sleasiness to it that is less, you know, are the movie brain version of bar owner and more the movie brain version of predatorial pornographer. Yes, yes. And he's kind of, I mean, a thing I like about the characterization of him in this is that, like, yeah, he's a predator, he's bad, but it's also like the movie is, he's pathetic and kill this one knows it. It's like, yeah, he's hot, and yeah, he's a business owner, but, like, he's this pathetic loser. And, like, even down to the car, I didn't see the license plate, but it's like, the fact that he has a blue Corvette is embarrassing.

And I was sort of like, and I, and I'd seen a lot of the movies by these guys, but I didn't really know much about, like, I saw them accidentally, right? Like, I see all these movies by these guys, not knowing that they're by these guys. Yeah. And I didn't know much about them, especially when I was rewatching this last night. So I was like, what's their deals actually? And I didn't know that one of them is gay. And I'm like, okay, the fact that one of these guys is gay is like, this movie would not be as good about the gay stuff and like the characterization of the Josh Lucas character without a gay screenwriter involved. Right.

Right. All of all of that is so intentional. I having watched, the other thing I watched this week was I rewatched the cellular closet for like the fifth time or whatever. Oh, tremendous documentary. Watch it once a year. It should be taught in schools. Another, like, 80-minute banger. Incredible.

So, but watching it, I'm now, of course, like, in a place where I'm very attuned to, you know, what movies are saying without saying. And obviously, like, there is, we talked about sort of, you know, I also don't think the Deep End is a homophobic movie. but there's certainly ways in which this movie sort of finds itself in company with other movies. I also saw cruising for the first time this past week, where, you know, sort of gay nightlife is seen as this nightmare place or this place where of danger, right? And, you know, because we're looking at the deep end from Tilda's character's point of view, it makes sense that this bar is a place of danger that the lighting is very sort of, you know, sinister and she has to descend in, you know, down this staircase and whatnot and that Josh Lucas emerges from this back room sort of like out of the shadows and whatever. Like all of the sort of, all of the, you know,

cinematic techniques are very much, you know, creating this place. And obviously, there are plenty of movies and documentaries and stories of, you know, gay, as salvation for people. And there is certainly, there's a version of this movie where Jonathan Tucker's character is the main character. And you see more about, you know, what drew him to this place and, you know, a space for him to explore his, you know, self-identity and whatever is very valuable. But I think, so I think it also contributes to the idea of, I want the deep end to be viewed by people who have a solid perspective on things, right? You know what I mean?

Well, I mean, I also watch that opening scene, too. And, like, yes, it's creating this mood. It's stepping into another world. Also, like, the gay bar is, like, surrounded by nothing else on the street to, before she even goes inside. But I also am looking at it through the gay lens of, like, God, gay bars can be so tacky. Because it's so early. 2000's tacky gay bar

I and you know Joe I think what we need is Jonathan Tucker to before he goes off to Wesleyan or something also Wesley another reason that Tilda Tilda loves him Tilda's like my son's gay whatever I just don't want him to be a deep end nightclub gay I want him to be a Wesleyan gay

like go to Wesleyan and play or whatever but the I kept thinking like the spend the rest of your life telling people that you went to class with Lin-Manuel Miranda and yes yeah the the gay bar that I feel is a rarity in movies. That is the non-seedy, lovable, perfect gay bar.

Is the Edge of 17 Leah Delaria gay bar? Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. It's just some lesbian singing jazz. Thank you. And she lets in the underage kid, but you know what? It's great for his life, and she treats him nicely, and she lets him have a safe place to drink, and she's always going to care for it. Like, this is the opposite of the demon, the lesbian.

I recommend that movie. I recommend that movie to so many people. Cedar Point. Excellence. It's not the, it's not the Haley Steinfeld edge of 17. Yes. It's the other edge of 70. Both are good and valuable, but this one has a the other doesn't have a the, correct? Exactly. Right. Yeah. Neither one of them uses the song, which I think is so funny. Neither one of them got the rights to the Stevie next song, which is incredible. Only one of them shot on location in Cedar Point. Yes. But so back to Josh Lucas. So this is coming. on the heels of two performances he has in 2000 that I think are really, really indelible, one of which, well, indelible, he's in American Psycho as a character who is supposed to be not indelible, right? He's one of the sort of faceless drones with business cards in American Psycho, but he's very, very well suited to playing that character. But on the complete other end of that spectrum. He's Rudy

Sr. And you can count on me. He's the kid's biological father who Mark Ruffalo, you know, tracks down and picks a fight with because Mark Ruffalo is a fuck up and he wants to pick a fight with somebody. And is really, really, really good

in a really brief moment in You Can Count on Me that I think an underrated part of that movie that I think is a perfect film. And then 2001, he's in A Beautiful Mind, which is your best picture this year. And then Session 9, where he's also, like, Beautiful Mind, he's sort of in the, like, American Psycho mode of, like, you know, one of, you know, many. I think he's, he might be a, no, he's a real person in a beautiful mind.

I can never remember who's a real person, the Beautiful Mind, and who isn't. But have either one of you seen Session 9, Brad Anderson's Session 9? Yes, I don't love Session 9, but I know that that is, like, a cult fave. Yeah, I've never seen it, but it always pops up on lists of, like, underrated horror movies you should absolutely watch. I just, he's also, is he the one who's sleeping with one of his friends' wives? Or it's Caruso is maybe sleeping with something, I don't know.

It's been minutes on the scene, but I love, I think session nine is so creepy and so good. Whenever anybody brings up session nine, my mind only goes to series seven. Have either of you seen series seven? Series 7, The Contenders, a great Brooksmith performance. Yes. Incredible Mary Louise Burke performance. It's a futuristic dystopian reality TV where it's like... It's a reality show where they have to kill each other.

Yeah, where all the contestants have to seek out each other and murder each other and be the last person standing. Brooks Smith is pregnant and is the best, is like, the multi-season champion of this show. And now she's pregnant. It's the Hunger Games in the real world. Yeah. It's just like with it like, yeah. They don't like send you off to an island. You're doing it like in the suburbs of Canada.

Bobby has to see it just for Mary Louise Burke. Mary Louise Burke rips in this movie. She's so good. Yeah. Um, anyway. Yeah. So I think Josh Lucas is great. And then Sweet Home Alabama, which I feel like is like maybe the peak of his career is, um, is 2002.

where he's the romantic hero, right? He's the one that she should end up with. He's her down-home boyfriends. She-Ome, Alabama's this movie I've only ever seen one time. So I sometimes don't remember it as well, even though it's an incredible cast. Are you allowed to have Mary Kaye Place and Gene Smart in the same movie? Like, maybe not. And Candace Bergen?

I rewatched it for the first time since I saw it. And I assume I saw that. I probably, actually probably saw it on VHS. Yeah. But I saw it for the first time since 2000, 2001. Yes. Like a year ago. Yeah.

And I just, I, it's, it's not good. Yeah. So it is, it's not good. If we're going to then put the, the movies that made Reese Witherspoon, um, the next Julia Roberts when she was that period of time where she was supposed to be, where it's legally blonde in 01, Sweet Home Alabama in 02, legally blonde 2, legally blonde 2 in 03, and 03. and then I'm not even going to include Vanity Fair and walk the line because those are doing a different thing, but just like heaven in 05. That barely counts, just like heaven.

I think Sweet Home Alabama did so much work for Sweet Home Alabama and Lidly Blonde, just like did it. Yes. Well, Sweet Home Alabama is a huge success, right? It's a ton of money. It makes a ton of money. It makes a $30 million or something. Yeah, and it made like, oh, didn't it make like $200 million?

It made so much money. It made a ton of money. And it, like, she got a Golden Globe nominee. It made 127 domestic, which in 2002 is, like, really good. Wait, what is... For romantic comedies, too, like, romantic comedies always have a long shelf life, but I don't think they really made that kind of money regularly. Right.

It's the, like, it's in the... It's the number 19 box office hit of the year. It is, you know, behind... Probably behind Pretty Woman. and runaway bride for, well... Probably. Well, that's the year of my big Fat Greek wedding, which is the big romantic comedy success of that year,

which made... I believe it's the first is the highest grossing romantic comedy to date. But anyway, so this is sort of the... This is Josh Lucas is having a moment territory. And for a minute... After that sort of heat went off of him for a minute, for a while, it felt like he became... a little bit of like a punchline, a little bit of like, oh, who's the like D-tier actor you're going to get as a leading man if you can't get A, B, and C or whatever, which I think is unfair.

I think a properly deployed Josh Lucas is really good and really effective. And I think he's, excuse me, I think he's really good in a movie that has, where he plays a similar character, although like a straight version in Undertoe. Yes. David Gordon Green movie. Yeah. And he's, he's like the villain who shows up kind of, maybe he shows up in the second act, but he shows up kind of early on as the brother of the father who is either Dermott Mulroney or Dylan McDermott. It's Dermott Mollrony. Yep. Yep. He's like the sinister uncle who shows up and from the moment he walks on, he's like the alluring, sexy, but like very obviously evil man. And I think he's so good at that. I think he's better. that he has an edge to him and I think that

like people wanted to make him into the sweet home Alabama almost like Bradley Cooper type or something and it just it didn't stick because I think there's that's why he works

in American Psycho too it's like there's a nastiness to him that you kind of can't erase yeah undertow and mud should be shown in rep with each other

undertoe's so good undertoe's really good Josh Lucas It's also on the list of actors that is shocking that they're not in Oppenheimer. Yeah, actually. I'm trying to think of what he's been in recently. He was in The Forever Purge. He was in...

He's making a lot of movies. It's just nothing anybody. He was in Ford versus Ferrari. He's in every commercial for Home Depot that you hear. Oh, is he the voiceover guy for His Depot? He's the voice of Home Depot. I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. For like, at least a decade. This is like Billy Crude Up narrates MasterCard commercials. levels of like surprise. Remember that week when like everybody realized that Billy Crude Up was doing the MasterCard commercials and everybody like fucking freaked out? I had no idea that was Josh Lucas. God. Well, good. I hope he's making, I hope he's made a ton of money for that over the years. And I assume he has. Yeah. But he said like last year he was in a movie called Queen of the Ring about a female wrestler played by the girl from Arrow.

So that's sort of where he's at, I feel like. Now, he was in a movie in 2003 called Blood for Dust. That is stars Scoot McNary, Kit Harrington, Stephen Dorff, Ethan Soply, and Nora Zahetner, which is a real mixed bag of cast members, if you're asking me, for a movie about, I imagine people who steal stuff or whatever, just looking at the poster. A lot of men sitting on a hood of a car with holding guns. Like, I imagine, he was in a movie called The Black Demon

that just has a giant shark on the poster. He was in a movie called, I'm not going to keep doing this all the way, but like the secret dare to dream which is a book based on you guessed it the secret the secret so yeah i've seen that uh katie holmes josh lucas jerry o'connell celia weston razy movie you should both watch the secret dare to dream it's crazy what give me like give me a nutshell uh a plot of a woman's a woman's life is falling apart katie holmes she meets this guy did you just watch Watch this for the podcast so that you could be like The Movie of the Shack. It was one of those things we joked about it for so long that we were like, we got to watch Secret Dirty Dream and we finally just

ended up watching it together and like mentioning it briefly. Like there was a, what do you say about the Secret Derner Dream? But it's like it's, it's what if she manifests her way into a better life and Josh Lucas is the guy that teaches her that it's possible. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so it's basically like a woman

secreting her life into a better place. Okay. But it's really cool. It's like, you watch it and you're like, oh, my God, millions of people believe that the secret is real. Yeah. But like Josh Lucas, I'm trying to remember, it really went in one ear and out the other. Josh Lucas is sort of like he shows up as almost like a, like a, I don't know, angelic, like messianic figure. Like he's like there to save her.

But he is a real person. I think he's a contractor. But like it, you should watch it. It's like a cookie way. It's like, how do we adopt the secret? I might watch this movie. And if you're wondering, like, how do we make the secret into a movie? It's like, like this.

One last thing. One last thing, because I want to throw in a good movie here, he was briefly in She Dies Tomorrow, which was the lockdown era psychological thriller, a psychological thriller that most people were like, I'm not watching that because it looks way too stressful. I did watch it. It is way too stressful. But I love Amy Simons as a director.

and it is very well done. It is exactly as harrowing as it follows, but instead of a, instead of sex, it is just being told the idea that the world is going to end tomorrow. And that is the contagion. Jane Adams is awesome in that movie. Jane Adams is awesome in that movie. the lead actress, Caitlin Sheel, is also awesome in that movie.

But Josh Lucas is very, very briefly in that one. Anyway. The Secret Dare to Dream directed by Andy Tennant, who also directed what? Sweet Home Alabama. It's Andy Tennant. Wow. That's crazy. It all comes back around.

Speaking of coming back around, so Tilda Swinton, this is our, let's do six timers and then let's do 2001 best actors. So this is our sixth Tilda Swinton movie. Miraculously, I did not forget this time. We remember it this time. We are in a real, real crunch period of every movie could possibly be a six-timers movie. We got to catch up to Kira Knightley and who else did we? For Shirley McLean. Yeah.

Anywho. So previous to this, we did an episode on Burn After Reading. We did an episode on Susperia, a bigger splash, so two Luca movies, Snowpiercer, French Dispatch, and then the deep end. So we've done our last three Tilda movies in only the last few months, Snowpiercer French Dispatch, and The Deep End. So that is six. When we reach the sixth movie for a particular actor or actress,

I write up a little quiz about those six movies and I give it to Chris. This time we have Bobby here as well. So I'm going to, this is going to be a quiz for you both. So how this is going to work is. I'll just, I'll read off a prompt where the answer is one of those six movies. So if you want to sort of jot them down or sort of... What are they again? Burn after reading? Uh, burn after reading, Susperia, a bigger splash, snowpiercer, French dispatch, and the deep end.

I will put them in the document in the outline so that we can have them right there. That we're at the Tilda Swinton six timers. and still haven't done, we need to talk about Kevin. True. True fact. Okay, so whoever thinks they know the answer, just shout it out. If you are right, you'll get a point. If you are wrong, you can't say another answer until the next person gets a chance to guess.

So, we'll keep a little bit of score. That's always fun. The prize is nothing. Okay. So, first question. Which of these six movies is the longest? Susperia. Chris gets that point. It is Susperia at 152 minutes. Which would be the shortest?

Burn after reading. Burn after reading. Another point for Chris. Which of these six movies had the best Rotten Tomatoes percentage? Can I answer? Anybody, yeah, shout it out if you think you know it. Snowpiercer? Yes, Bobby gets a point for Snowpiercer. 94%.

There you go. Which one would have the worst Rotten Tomatoes percentage? Susperia? Susperia, 65%. Which earned the most at the box office, domestic? Burn after reading. Yes, you both said at the exact same time, so you're both going to get a point. Um, burn after reading 60.3 million, which had the lowest box office.

The deep end? Not the deep end. Susperia. Not Susperia. Wow. Somehow. Let me double check. A bigger splash?

A bigger splash had, uh, Suspira was 2.4 million domestic. A bigger splash was 2.0 million domestic. Wow. Yeah. Um, let me just take a sip of water. All right. Moving on. Which two of these movies were written by the same screenwriter as the Nicole Kidman, Daniel Craig, Flop the Invasion?

Burn After Reading and Snowpiercer? No, all right, so Bobby, you get a free crack at it. Would it be... Okay, it might be one of the... I'm going to say it's... Could it be Snowpiercer and Bigger Splash? I feel like Snowpiercer has to be one of them. Bigger Splash is correct.

Snowpiercer is incorrect. So you get one. Oh, they're both. And then it's Susperia because they have the same screenwriter. And then it's Asperia because they have the same screenwriter. What's his name? Ketchganich. Thank you.

Yeah, David Ketchganich. Yes. Which of these movies has the same cinematographer as Clouds of Sils Maria? Bigger Splash? Bigger Splash, Yorick Lassau. Oh, yeah. All right, you're tied at five. Very good.

Okay. Which two, hold on. I want to make sure. I believe this is just which one movie, and I just wrote it down wrong. Which movie was released in Virgo season? Oh, I don't know. Astrology. Burn after reading.

Burn after reading. Correct. Early September. Which movie has the same composer as Scream? Yeah. Wow. Snowpiercer. Yes.

Snowpiercer. Beltrami? Marco Beltrami. Yep. Very, very good. Which movie has the same composer as the celluloid closet? Oh, burn after reading. Burn after reading.

Carter Burwell. Yes. Very, very good. If you were reading my letterbox logs this week, you would know. I have a lot of that score on my computer because Carter Burwell's website, he has like free MP3s and you can't listen to that score Oh wow It's so pretty

It's such a pretty score to that movie Yeah Which movie played the Toronto Film Festival Bigger Splash No Chris free guess Did the It could be that

I guess burn after reading But I didn't think it did festivals Yes burn after reading. Which movie was filmed? I'll double check that after and make sure maybe I'm wrong about that. Which movie was filmed at locations in Germany? French dispatch?

No. Susperia? Susperia. Yes, correct. Which movie was filmed at locations in the Czech Republic? Bigger Splash? No. French dispatch?

No. Oh, wait, Bigger Splash is all Italy. I'm an idiot. Now it's back up in the air again. You've each tried to try to... Czech Republic. Do we both? Are we both neutral in Canada? Yeah.

It is Snowpiercer, yes, correct. It's snowpiercer. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Which movie was filmed at locations in France? French dispatch. French dispatch, yes, correct. All right.

Which movie features soundtrack titles that include Miss Manhattan, worried about you, and unforgettable. A bigger splash. A bigger splash, yes, correct. The Miss Manhattan scene is the one where he's doing karaoke in the bar. Ray Fynes just sort of wiggling around. I mean, he wiggles around a lot in that movie. He does a lot of wiggling, yeah.

Yes. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include sex farce, blood spatter, and stupidity? Burn after reading. Burn after reading. There we go. Half of the key words on IMDB for Burn After Reading are like Dildo Chair. I thought that was a little on the nose. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include cigarette smoking, nipples visible through clothing, and dead body.

Susperia. Neither a bigger splash nor Susperia. Nipples visible through clothing. French dispatch? No. The deep end? The deep end, yes, correct. Nipples visible through clothing.

Okay. Maybe when she's swimming? It's a TILDA. I guess, yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, the person who's spreading those keywords was like, nipples, nipples, nipples, nipples, yeah. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include female frontal nudity, art gallery, and love triangle? French dispatch? French dispatch, correct.

Most of those, two or three of those are Tilda and one of those. Although, Tilda's not the only one with female frontal nudity in that movie. But anyway, which two of these movies were Golden Globe nominees for acting? Burn after reading. Yes. And The Deep End. Yes. Very good.

Francis McDormand was nominated for Best Actress in a Musical or Comedy, Tilda Swinton, Best Actress in the Drama. Which three of these movies were Indie Spirit Award nominees? Yes. Deep end, Snowpiercer, and Susperia? Chris gets two. The Deep End and Susperia. Bobby, can you guess the third?

Bigger splash? Bigger splash, yes, correct. Okay. Which two of these movies were Saturn Award nominees? Susperia and Snowpiercer. Susperia and Snowpiercer, Chris gets two. Not a B guess. Which of these movies was distributed by the same studio as Broken Flowers?

Burn after reading. Yes. Focus Features. Broken Flower is a movie I have seen, but I still mostly remember just from the Focus Features pre-roll. Tilda gets above the title billing for 20 seconds of screen time. We'll have to do that one of these days because that definitely did have Oscar Buzz. The weirdest Oscar Buzz, which was, oh, Bill Murray will definitely get nominated. Yeah.

A Jim Charmiss movie? Sure. Who care? Which of these movies was a national board of review top ten movies? movie. Burn after reading. Yes, burn after reading. Very good.

Which two films feature stars of A Beautiful Mind? The Deep End. The Deep End. You both got that. You said at the same time. And then what's the other? Has to be burn after reading. It is not, in fact, somehow. Is it, I'm just thinking of cast size, the French Dispatch?

It's not the French Dispatch somehow. Snowpiercer? Yep, Ed Harris. Right. Ed Harris? Okay. Ed Harris, yes. Which two films feature stars of no time to die?

French Dispatch. Yes. And... Bigger Splash. Bigger Splash. Ray Fines plays... Um, in no time to die. French Dispatch has three cast members in No Time to Die.

Leah Seude, Christoph Waltz, and Jeffrey Wright are all in No Time to Die. Which two films feature stars of King Kong? French Dispatch, Adrian Brody. Yep. Um... Um, I'll just say snowpiercer. Snowpiercer. Jamie Bell is in.

Jamie Bell, of course. I do not. I have no memory of King Kong. Uh, which two films feature stars of the disgraced movie I Love You Daddy? Uh, Susperia, Chloe Grace Moretz. Yes, correct. And. The other one, I might just throw out some guesses, because I don't know if you're going to get it.

French Dispatch. No, not French Dispatch. Bobby, care to venture a guess? Bigger splash. Not Bigger Splash. Snowpiercer. Wow. Burn after reading.

Burn after reading. John Malkovich, apparently, isn't I love you, daddy? Yeah. Which of these was a National Border Review top 10 indie? Top 10 indie movies. Deep end? Nope. Snowpiercer.

Snowpiercer. Which was a National Border Review special recognition for excellence in filmmaking? The Deep End. The Deep End. Yes, correct. About which... Okay, sorry. About which of...

Yes, sorry. About which of these films did Rolling Stones Peter Travers say, everything in this spellbinding erotic dance is so ripe and voluptuous that watching it doesn't seem enough, you want to take a bite out of it. A bigger splash. A bigger splash, correct? I would have also said Suspiria. About which of these films did New York Magazine's David Edelstein say,

Now at last comes a fun dystopian sci-fi epic, a splattery shambles with a fat dose of social satire and barely a lick of sense. Snowpiercer. Yes, you both get that one. Finally, about which film did the village voices Dennis Limb, say Swinton provides her own brand of incandescence doubling as the film's aching heart and its center of gravity. The deep end.

The deep end. You both get that one to end the game. You pulled out a David Ellstein quote that wasn't just boobs. I know. I know. All right. Well done on the Tilda Swinton, six-timers quiz. I mean, no better time than this to talk about the Oscar race that year. So she's a Golden Globe nominee for Best Actress in a Drama.

By the way, almost all of these precursors, she loses to Sissy Spac. She loses the Independent Spirit Award to Sissy Spac. She is a runner-up at New York Film Critics for Best Actress to Sissy Spac. And she loses the Golden Globe Best Actress in a Drama to Sissy Spac who kind of ran the table for the first half of the season before Halle Berry took the moment. But so the Globe drama nominees are Sissy Spac, Judy Dench for Iris, Hallie Berry for Monsters Ball, all of whom end up becoming Oscar nominees. This one is Kidman. The Globe's Kidman's nominated in both drama and comedy.

She is nominated for the others in drama. She wins Golden Globes' comedy for Mulan Rouge. Renee Zellweger is nominated there for Bridget Jones' diary. I kind of, in my memory, Renee Zellweger for Bridget Jones's diary, was a late breaker. That does not bear out to scrutiny in watching this. No, she kind of showed up everywhere, I thought. She was a SAG Award nominee. She was a BAFTA nominee. She was a Globe nominee. She kind of had this. There wasn't really a late breaker. The only real question was, is Nicole Kidman going to cancel herself out by splitting her support between Mulan Rouge and the others? Because she campaigned for both. I think it's interesting. I always think it's interesting that Kidman, has two performances and is nominated for Moulin Rouge, while Jim Broadbent has two performances

and is nominated for Iris instead of Moulin Rouge, even though I think he's... Leagues better in Moulin Rouge. Incredible in Moulin Rouge. He's so, so good in that. Wouldn't take Jim Broadbent's Oscar away from him for anything, though. I might, because Ian McKellen deserves to have an Oscar. Like, but...

Odds and Monsters was his Oscar, though. Well, sure. We would all take away a Roberto Benini's Oscar. I would say, Tilda Swinton, absent Sissy Spacec and Renee Zellwiger, I would say, is the best performance of all of these in contention. I think that's probably... I've got to watch Bridget Jones's Diary again.

I was never a Bridget Jones's diary person. I had never read the book. And I watched the movie and thought it was like good, not great. Love, love, love, love, love. She's also really great in Bridget Jones, Mad About the Boy, which is... I got to see that before the Emmys. Incredible. Yeah, that movie has no business being as good as it is.

If Renee Zolweger gets nominated for an Emmy for Bridget Jones, Mad About the Boy, it's going to be the strangest thing in the world. I know, because it's like only in America. was it a TV product? But especially after the first sequel... Yeah, yeah, it would have made a ton of money here. It's beautiful. Especially because the first sequel is so abominable

that this one just turns out to be great and about something. Have any of us seen the third one, Bridget Jones' baby? No. I have. I saw that in theaters. Did you see it in theater? Yeah. It's fine.

It's better than the first sequel. Completely memory hold. Like, if you asked most people, like, mad about the boy, they would assume as the third movie. But so other Globe's comedy nominees, Cape Lanchet for bandits, Thora Birch for Ghost World, and Reese Witherspoon for Legally Blonde. I think of the three of them, Thorough Birch is probably the one, I feel like, even had a decent number of Oscar votes, probably finished somewhere in the seventh to ninth range, I think. if you were tallying votes. Jennifer Connolly gets that weird SAG nomination in lead. It's the only precursor that season

where Jennifer Connolly is considered a lead and not supporting, which is why Helen Mirren actually wins the supporting SAG Award that year for Gosford Park. But otherwise, the only really other contenders for real are Audrey Tatou for Amalie, who gets a BAFTA nomination, and then Naomi Watts for Mahal and Drive, whose only real precursor is the National Society of Film Critics Award,

but is in the conversation a lot. When we did our Mulholland Drive episode on the Patreon, we talked about sort of the confusion that happened where they started to campaign her as a supporting actress and then sort of switched horses in midstream to lead actress, And by that point, that five had really, had really, you know, sort of solidified. And it sounds wild to say now, but people did have to be told, no, that's the same actress. Which is so strange to think of.

Yeah. Yeah. Many people actually thought it was two different actresses playing Betty, pre-going into the box and post going into the box. which I think is wild. Speaking of pre and post going into the box, Tilda Swinton. Sure. Wait, so how do we think about this Halle Berry Oscar win 25 years down the line? I mean, having seen that movie semi-recently because of when we did the 20th century Best Actress Wins for screen drafts, that movie is, I mean, like, I think she prevails herself over what that movie is doing, which is really just, like, not good.

Yeah. I think that she pulls off a good performance in that really offensive movie is commendable. It's a bad movie. It's definitely a bad movie. But I would never take that away from her. Right. Because I think there is, there's a lot to be said for a really bad movie that people, only remember because

Halliberry was really, really good in it. This is how I feel about the blind side. I think the blind side is a bad movie with a movie star performance at its center. Also, everybody, Holly Barry was nominated against Has Oscars, so. Well, Nicole hadn't gotten hers yet. Neither had Renee, but yes.

But they get them. But they get them. I'm giving that Oscar. If the Oscars in my hands, and it says, Bobby, give it to one of these women, I'm giving it to Sissy's basic. That performance really holds up. I've seen in the bedroom recently.

It's a really incredible movie. It's a really incredible performance. I think I'm sort of with you guys in that, like, I think Hallie Berry is good in Monsters Ball. I wouldn't necessarily even say she is transcendent in that movie. But, like, she's certainly, she's not bad in it. I understand why she was highlighted in it. not just sort of, I think a lot of people sort of chalk it up to the fact that, like,

they wanted to have, you know, a black best actor and a black best actress the same year. And I think it's less that and more sort of a typical, Helly Berry was a very famous actress who didn't really get the kinds of roles that you would put her in contention for for Oscar. Now all of a sudden she's playing this very serious role, this very harrowing role. She does a lot of crying. She does a lot of emoting. There was a lot of talk at the time of how daring it was, what she was doing with her body in that movie. So, like, those kinds of things, you know, those kinds of Oscar nominations and those kinds of Oscar wins happen.

I think then also the fact that Oscar voters could, you know, could look at that ballot and say, oh, and I would make, you know, we would be making history by, you know, having Hallie Berry. That was definitely, you know, added, you know, added value to casting that vote. And I wouldn't take it away from her for that reason. It was such a moment. It was such a, you know, not only sort of historically, but like an Oscar moment, the actual, like, acceptance speech where she's, you know, basically hyperventilating from stage and whatever. It's so memorable. And, like, people win Oscars. She's not even the nominated performance that I would take out of that ballot first.

I would take away Judy Dench first. Yeah. Yeah, I think Judy Dench is very good in Iris, but, like, Iris ultimately is what is, you know, I think Iris is a very forgettable movie, unfortunately. But yeah, I think the other thing is, though, is Spacec is definitely my winner as well. But I also feel like a Kidman win would have been really interesting. And she's doing something in Moulin Rouge that she hasn't really ever done before or since,

even when she's in something like The Prom or whatever. It's such a high wire act. Kind of no pun intended, because I know there's a lot of. of like her on, you know, whatever a trapeze and that. The other thing about her being, I mean, I feel like I've gone back and forth on this, but I think the others is the better performance, even if Moulin Rouge is the movie star performance. Well, the others is a different kind of movie star performance. There's like classic movie style acting going on in the others, whereas like, you know.

It's really hard to compare the two. My thing mostly with the others is I wish that movie had been nominated for any craft awards. Like, it's wild to me that that got nothing in the realm of cinematography, art direction, score, you know, makeup, anything like that. Just a really, really good movie. Talk about a movie that holds up. What are our favorite Tilda performances? Okay. So I asked everybody to sort of to come prepared with.

this. I have come prepared with a list of four with an open-ended slot at five, and I'm going to make that my last-minute thing. Bobby, as our guest, what are your five? Well, like I said, there's so much early Tilda that I'm missing, so you have to keep that in mind when I'm giving my list. I feel like I just need to provide that disclaimer. I think we all, I think none of us are completely comprehensive on this, so we can put that asterisk there. Yeah. The three that I would just say there's no debate for me are Michael Clayton, which it's funny to think about Michael Clayton because I love, I mean, I love her in that movie so much. I've seen Michael Clayton so many times. I'm always blown away by how good she is in that movie. Another movie where she makes

the plain true statement that she can't come up with a certain sum of money quickly. You don't want the money? I love, you don't want the money at the end. I think about her saying you don't want the money eight times a day. But I also think that just in the context of the deep end, Karen Crowder and her character in the deep end have a lot in common. And I was finding myself laughing at this. Yeah. I was laughing at it while I was watching the last night because I was sort of like, it's just cut it a little shorter on just a little bit and she's Karen Crowder. And I was kind of like, A, I don't think she gets Karen Crowder without this movie. They're two heads at the same point. But, like, Karen Crowder is, I kept thinking of them as twins, where it was like,

one went off to the big city to like get a high-powered corporate job and the other one stayed behind in Lake Tahoe. And they've always resented each other. But really, when, you know, when push comes to shove, I think the Tilda Twin and the deep end is the more powerful woman, the one that's more able to control stuff. And like, it is so much smarter and capable and competent. The one who's not going to get sent to jail at the end of her movie, actually, is the deep end one. But, so Michael Clayton, one of them, Orlando, for sure. I think she's unbelievable in Orlando. And I Am Love, which is my favorite Luca movie.

That's also, I think it's a matter of, you know, I think there's a, there are many reasons why I'm so connected to I Am Love, but I just am. It's just always going to matter so much to me. and I think what she's doing in that just on a kind of like top level analysis of it we're like I don't know about Russian and I don't know about Italian I was going to say just linguistically

she's so impressive in that movie but when someone tells me that what she's doing in that movie is she learned how to speak Italian with a Russian accent I was like I believe it and I think that she's doing a perfect job and no one can tell me otherwise and I'm amazing

I'm amazing and I think that I think that the like the arc of her character kind of going from, you know, the way that she goes from someone who's so composed and comfortable and contented to someone who realizes they are there, none of those things and slowly start spiraling to the point, like, at the end of the movie, when spoilers and she runs out of that house, I'm just like, God, the way she's changed in this movie is just so thrilling to me. Yeah. Um, the last two, I was sort of like, I don't know what to do with the last two. I wanted to throw in a comedy because I think she's so funny. when she's allowed to be funny I almost put problemista on there because I just

that performance has really stuck with me over the last year but I'm going to be a little bit more thoughtful and throw on Hail Caesar just because I think playing Twins is either a feat or it's really easy and lazy and she made it a feat

and made it so so so so much fun yeah the last one I did kind of what you said you were going to do I'm either going to say it's the the Orwell music video because it's just such a formative little Tilda moment for me, but I don't think that's fair.

So I'm going to actually say Julia, which I don't think is a good movie, but I think about her in that movie all the time. She's unbelievable. And that movie kind of sucks and is really kind of gross. Like, gross, weird. Nothing is justified,

but her performance is so good that like it justifies ludicrousness in that movie. unreal in that movie. So I'm going to throw in Julia at the end. That's another movie that's been memory hold, which I think is too bad for her specifically. Um, all right, Chris, what are yours? Uh, I have to second Michael Clayton for all of the things you put beautifully about that movie. I also will say Orlando just because, thinking about, you know, star persona and just just the screen presence of her, I think it's impossible to not say Orlando.

And then my favorite Luka movie, which is a bigger splash, the high-wire act of what she's doing in I Am Love, but also doing this high-wire act where she's like the not speaking, but she is also basically playing David Bowie. That movie is so hot. That movie is so evil. And that she just gets this script and she's like, yeah, what if I lost my voice? So I'm not going to do 75% of this dialogue. I'm just going to act it. It's funny that my two favorite Luca movies are Tilda Swetton movies. And I really hadn't put that together until you said it.

It's like, wait, maybe I just like her. Yeah. And then my other two, my nerdy two, I would have to say, Memoria. I think there's no one else on the planet that could give that performance. But her. And then another one, which is just like a personal fave. it like ticks off so many of my personal boxes is the Eternal Daughter.

I knew you're doing those too. A dual performance. And I think that movie is so fucking special. Yeah. But she's great in it too. Yeah. Is Memoria, I haven't seen either of them. And I have that written down.

I'm like, damn, well, I haven't seen Memoria or the Eternal Daughter either. But is Memoria streamable now? Because I know for a long time it was sort of like impossible to watch. It's still impossible to watch. Well, in America, I think you can. get like a region-free DVD or if you had the critics neon box, which I will never get rid of mine because I want my physical copy of Memorial. Maybe I do have it in a neon box.

I'll send you, I'll send you my neon, uh, uh, um, not the ideal way to watch that movie because like the sound design, like, if you can see it in a theater, obviously you have to see it in theater. Um, but have you seen Eternal Daughter? No. Oh, Bobby. I'm telling you. I love that movie.

Someone I love as much as Dilda, I'm like, I've got blind spots galore. She makes so many movies. I didn't watch the end either, and I know I would love the end. And I just haven't. I think you would. The end is so much more interesting than I got credit for. Like, that movie got killed by going to Tell Your Ride, I think. It's not a perfect movie, but it is interesting.

All right. I'm going to do my top five. Very, very difficult. I tried to make a deterrent. between performances, they're all performances that I love, but like performances that I love where it feels like it's more of her doing the undertaking than performances that I love, which is filmmakers sort of harnessing this sort of essential energy of hers. I think there are so many movies like that that do that. Constantine Chronicles of Narnia, only lovers left alive. Hail Caesar on that.

Again, all of these movies that I think she's really great in. The Killer, I think, is another one of those movies. I love that movie. I love her in that movie. My number five is a bigger splash for a lot of the reasons that Chris said. I love the way she acts against the limitation of not being able to use her voice is really, she does a really good job of making that into a character decision. Like, you really see a lot of what they're.

character is by the ways in which she's just like unable to abide by this thing where she's not allowed to talk or sing. I would put the deep end at number four. I think she's just really, really incredible in this movie. I'm glad one of us put it on our top five. My number three is problemista. At the risk of recency bias, I think she's so fucking funny in that movie. And she and Julio Torres do such good sort of work together. And then I also feel like she's so good when that movie calls upon her to be a person that you can actually empathize with very briefly for brief moments in that movie. I love that movie so much. My number one of last year.

My number two is we need to talk about Kevin, which is a movie I would be interested to revisit because I haven't since I originally saw it. But I think it's so kind of both within and not within her wheelhouse that I think is very interesting. I think a lot of the people who maybe had problems with that movie didn't think she was the right casting for that. But I think what she brings to that movie is also is giving it an energy that I really kind of clock with. And then my number one is Michael Clayton, which is maybe, you know, the boring pick. It's her Oscar win. It's the movie that everybody really loves.

But I think for a very good reason, I think she's so fucking stressful in that movie. It's so wild she hasn't been, hasn't had another Oscar nomination since that. I know. I know. It's wild. I think she's so willing, though, to throw herself into movies that are just going to be far afield of the Oscar. race or small sort of supporting roles that, you know, but I absolutely agree with you. Something like, I think if the killer had been handled better, I think that's a movie that

you really could have pulled off a Oscar nomination. She doesn't really campaign a ton, which is why I kind of think it could have happened for the room next door, because she did really get out there for that movie, but it was just like, and she's so good in those settings, too. I remember, again, I, you know, this is obnoxious, but whatever, when I was at that Sony Pictures Classics dinner last year. I didn't get a chance to talk to her, but I was sort of like watching her from across the room because how could you not? And she's so engaged with everybody. She's so like, she's such a great, you know, I don't know, conversationalist seemingly. Tilda, call me up. We'll have a nice conversation and then I can speak from, from personal experience. But anyway, that is my top five. I don't think you can go wrong with a Tilda top five. She has so many, so many great ones. I was like, I do not like this movie at all, to the point where I'm like, I need to rewatch this movie because I've only seen it once in theaters, and I need to give it an honest shot 20 years later or so. But the curious case of Benjamin Button, which I do not love.

But that's what I, what I remember from that movie is the Tilda Swinton, like, Swimmer subplot. And she's, I don't even, she's the most memorable part of that movie, Timmy. I, she's, I'm trying to remember because that is also a movie I have not seen since I initially, uh, it was initially out. she's somebody who sort of briefly has a relationship with Benjamin Button. Yeah, I believe she's his first kiss and it's his first

physical relationship with the woman, I think. I remember when that movie came out. And she's a swimmer. Who wants to swim the channel? The channel, that's right. I remember thinking, oh, I didn't think you could have Kate Blanchett and Tilda Swinton

in the same movie. But they never share the screen. They never share the screen. And I feel like they were also, I feel like there was another movie that they were both in maybe. And now I can't maybe think of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I mean, Julianne is also like, yeah, yes. Well, Julianne Moore and Cape Blanchett in the shipping news. That's why that movie, that was actually happened a couple times because they were also in an ideal husband together.

Give us a good remake of the women because, you know, these are our two actresses to have any type of Ross Russell energy right now. Yeah. I like Benjamin Button. I have always feel like, you know, people were sold an epic romance when really that's a movie about death. That is a movie about Hurricane Katrina.

I think a lot of people don't like that movie. Who was the actress who shows up at the end in Hurricane Katrina in that movie? I know I always ask this. Julia Ormond is the daughter. Yeah, but she kind of like bookends. to Learland. Yeah. I just jotted down a few other contenders who were around in that 2001 race.

Michelle Pfeiffer from I.M. Sam is one of those ones that, like, I understand why Sean Penn was the person from I.M. Sam who was in the Oscar race on, like, incredibly cynical, you know, grounds. Along with Dakota Fanning. Along with Dakota Fanning. And Michelle Pfeiffer doesn't really have the sort of buzzy part. but as I recall, she was sort of the only one who seemed to be leaving the movie with her dignity in fact. Yes, exactly. Dignity was the word I was going to use. Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly. And then there's a bunch of like these long lead buzz. A lot of these people who we've done episodes on, Julianne Moore for Hannibal, if only because she's stepping into the role that won Jodie Foster and Oscar. I don't think we've done town and country because, it's not available anywhere, but, like, that was the sort of, I want to, I want to. That was the, that sort of long-awaited movie, and it was Warren Beatty, but it was Diane Keaton and Goldie Hawn together.

And, like, I've never seen this movie. And it sometimes seems like it's imaginary. Wasn't it around for, like, five years? Yes. It was a very long time. Yes. Andy McDowell, I think, is also in that movie, but I think the leads are Diane Keaton and Goldie Hawn. We did an episode ages ago on Penny Marshall's riding in cars with boys. Um, with actually Bowen Yang was our guest for that one. Um, and that's a movie that I definitely remember there being this sense that like,

oh, this is Drew Barrymore's serious movie that she's going to try and like get an Oscar nomination from. And then, um, it didn't happen. Um, Britney Murphy is kind of a wonder in that movie. I really, really love her in that. Um, and then a movie that we can't do on the main feed because it got a costume nomination, I believe, was the affair of the necklace with Hillary Swank, which is... Didn't it win costumes? Didn't it win the costume Oscar?

Did it really? Gosh. It's got necklace in the title, Chris. What did you expect? It's true. I don't know what you want. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This was one of her Boys Don't Cry, follow-up movies that did not... Was not the mode that people were looking for from Hillary Swank, costume drama. She's such an interesting actress nowadays. I feel like whenever she pops up in things.

It's like, remember when she just like shows up at the end of Christian movies now, right? Logan Lucky. Yeah, well, she is doing sort of. She is. Logan Lucky is one of my favorite movies. I think I love Logan. No, it's incredible. And Hillary Swank in that movie is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

When she shows up, I'm never prepared for it. Never. I've seen it maybe 50 times. And every time she pops up, I'm like, oh my God, what is what's happening? What are you doing? I need to catch up to the hunt. and she's in The Hunt. The Hunt is kind of an obnoxious movie,

but there are some performances in that movie where you're like, well, like, go off, Queen. You know what she's great in? What? The short-lived series that I loved every second of, Alaska Daily. The Todd McCarthy show. Great, great show. Was it Tom McCarthy?

That's incredible. Nowadays, she makes movies in a genre I like to call feels like it should have a Diane Warren song. at the end, but doesn't. A lot of the good mother. Was that the title of that one? Hold on.

Hillary Swank. The one with Angels? Original Angels? Well, they all seem like they're the same movie, but I think they're like at least two, perhaps three movies. One of which was called Ordinary Angels. Ordinary Angel.

With a scream. The original Angel, sorry. The O.A is the original angel. My bad. Yes, the OA is the original angel. Put some respect on. her name. The screenplay by Ordinary Angels is one of those things that it feels like you just threw a dart twice at a board of women. Meg Tilly and Kelly Freeman Craig are the credited

screenwriters for Ordinary Angels. Wild. A movie about Hillary Swank wearing a tuk. That's kind of it. And then the good mother is the other one where she plays a good mother. I don't know. I don't know what else you want from her. And then there was also a movie Oh, right, the Michael Ely movie Fatal, where she plays a woman who becomes obsessed with Michael Ely, I believe, is the logline for that one. Wait, I want to get the official IMDB logline

because I bet you it's a fucking banger. After a one-night stand, a successful married man finds himself entangled in a cunning police detective's latest investigation. think that's it. I think she's like a cop who like sets him up for murder after a one night stand with him or something. Um, have never seen it. But anyway, um, oh, and then she's in a movie called I am mother, which is a sci-fi with her. I thought Jailo was mother. Uh, Jalo also been in movies with basically these same titles. And they're both Netflix movies, I'm pretty sure.

So, yes. Yes. And, no, I'm not, we can't go. We can't go and we can't go too far down. The gay guy title, a gay guy ironic title. I am mother. I am legends. We need I am icon.

All right. I am diva. Okay. Anything else we want to have. Wait, there's the Helen Reddy movie. I am woman. I am legend, I am mother, I am woman. I am woman.

Yeah, and it's the Helen Reddy story. Actually, let Hillary Swank star in the Hellen Ready biopic. Okay. I was not ready for Swan Lake to make its appearance in this movie. Very birth-coded that scene. Very. Her sort of silently, like, watching theater being like, I'm having a crisis. There are a few moments where this movie on a filmmaking level kind of goes off.

When they're in the book. boatshed after he's strangled Raymond J. Barry to death and they decide to go dissolve crazy and it's just dissolve and to dissolve. I was like, okay, go off. We didn't talk about Gorin's dice tattoo, which I found

really funny. On the side of his neck. Sure, sure, sure. Sure. I love the line. God damn it, you better get that son of a bitch fucking money. I what are my other notes um I just really like oh one thing I wrote down that this is kind of just a broader note that I just found very interesting given the time period that this came out um it reminded me of in a like neo noir sense it reminds me of a simple plan where it's like ordinary people getting caught in this like thing and everything just keeps getting you know it's compounding it's snowballing everything's getting worse and worse and worse yeah like I will never watch us simple plan again in my life. I can't ever do that. Right. And I thought it was really interesting. And I think it's, again, there's, I don't want to say it's like a queer sensibility, but it's a very, like, there's a, there's something to its aesthetic and it's, and its vibe that makes a movie that is so kind of like, uh, textually thrilling. Like, like, this should be the most thrilling thing you've ever seen watching this ordinary woman go through this. Yes. But it's kind of a soothing relationship.

relaxing movie like I could watch this a lot and not feel my heart rate increase like there's something to the tone of it and I think a lot of it has to do with again like the location of Lake Tahoe like it's it's a strangely soothing movie that's very talky yes like and that's why what Gordon is doing through so many of his scenes with Tilda which I love so much is he doesn't he cares for her and he's like do you not understand the the stakes that you are that the stakes of this situation right now. Like, do you not understand what you are putting you or in your family through right now?

And she's like, I absolutely do. But like, I'm kind of the single parent. You know, like my husband's gone. My father-in-law's useless and annoying. And half dead by the end of the movie. Right. And she's like, if I don't keep it together right now, everything falls apart. And I think that that dynamic is like so amazing.

And she's so good there. But like, the movie is just such a steady heartbeat. The other thing that this is. movie does that I find really, really, um, almost charming is it's incredibly realistic about how hard it would be to come up with $50,000. Yeah. Um, where like she's a comfortably middle class woman living in Lake Tahoe. She's not exactly like living paycheck to paycheck.

And even still, she's like, $50,000, you might as well be saying $2 billion. Like I just, and she like, we watch her like, she goes to, like, like apply for a loan she goes to like sell some things to to you know a pawn shop or whatever and she's like i got seven thousand can that just be enough can we just make it seven thousand like she she goes to the father-in-law to ask for money and she can't bring herself to say i need fifty thousand dollars and he's like i'll give you what i've got money for you and he hands her eighty dollars and then he's like and if you need any more just ask and it's like the absolute gulf between what asking for money from a loved one in that context is and what sounds like.

She's like, I don't know. It's a lot of money. And he's like, I can give you $80. Like, and I can. And there's more where that came from. And it's just like there it's, it's, it's, you're speaking in completely two different realms of reality at this point. $50,000 is.

Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And it's just like it's, it's, it's very realistic about like, there are certain sums of money that are just inaccessible and that is in that realm

and I do kind of love that whereas a lot of other movies are just like just get it I don't care how and they do and it's like but like how how exactly did you come up with a hundred thousand dollars on like a day's notice on a Saturday like what the fuck

and how often do you get the scene of the person who owes the goon money being like sorry this is the best I can do yes Like, let whatever happens to me happen to me because I've done all I can do. I love the part where he's like, well, we cut it in half because I'm not going to take your cut. Or I'm not going to take my cut.

And it's like, thanks, I guess. For not agreeing to extort me for half of this money. Like, okay. I love that scene of him with when the father-in-law is having the heart attack and he's looking around and he's like, he's basically like, damn, everyone's got their own stuff. It's so funny. I know. Wow. I'm not the only one who's struggling.

And she's just like goes to her other son. She's like, call 911. And he's like, what's the number again or whatever? And it's just like, nobody's moving fast enough from my days like at that moment either. This man's dying on the floor. I don't care how annoying he is. He is annoying. You're right.

The father-in-law is definitely annoying. All right. Anything else we want to do before we jump into? My only other notes were I spent this rewatch imagining her. hereditary was happening just down the street two different type of mother experiences and then just like

the full art of the opening credit sequence. The opening credits are stunning. The like slow dissolve of all of the names. Meanwhile the title is still slower dissolve like just good mood setting. Yeah. And also just

like the helicopter over the lake just like this this lake's huge. The reminder just, like, is huge. Yes. All right. All right. We'll move into the IMDB game. Chris, why don't you let our listeners know about the IMDB game?

All righty. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining. titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free for all of hints. Free for all of hints indeed. Bobby, as our guest, you get the option of choosing whether you want to go first or last, and to whom or from whom you would like to guess. I'll go first. All right. And you will what, guess first? No, I will give first. I will give first. Okay, to whom?

I'll give to Chris All right, you will give to Chris Chris, Chris will give to me And then I will give to you Let me actually pull this up again I have it I have it memorized But I don't want to get it wrong Sure, sure

Okay, so my I was shocked When you sent me the list of the people you've done Because I was like, I don't think I've ever heard this before And it hasn't been done yet But the deep end Made me think of The deep end of the ocean

Sure, of course I think of Michelle Pfeiffer. Of course. So that's my, that's my, um, my thought process here. Uh, so Chris, Michelle Pfeiffer. Okay. This is, not been done. Somehow we have not done Fyfer.

This is interesting. I think there's a lot of ways that this could go. She's the kind of like person that defies a lot of my logic and how this algorithm works. Um, I would say Batman returns. No. Oh, God, I got to go. Okay. So her Oscar nominations are not super helpful,

but if I think any of them are going to show up, it's dangerous liaisons. No. Oh, my God. I was, I mean, her known for, as is usually the case, makes sense, but is also cuckoo. Do what you get dates now, right? Yeah.

1889, 2000, 2007, and 1996. Wow. 89 is Fabulous Baker Boys. Yes. Two movies from 2000. So is that the story of us? Is that one of them? Oh, no.

I was, well, no, it's not the story of us. Oh, okay. Deep end of the ocean. No. Is not 2000? No, depending on the ocean is 99. Um, 96 is that dangerous minds? I think that was 95.

No, it was 95. Yeah. So, after dangerous minds, what's 96? One Fine Day? Yes. Okay. I was going to say, well, it's not dangerous mines. It's like something much lighter.

So you have, the two left are 2000 and 2007. Okay. Couldn't be more... O-7's hairspray. Yes. I should have known to guess hairspray. I was going to say, I can't believe he didn't guess hairspray in their name for it. What's like a diametrically opposing vibe to hairspray?

Something very dark and evil and brooding. Mm-hmm. But in two... Oh, what lies beneath? Yes. I love that movie. That's it. Yeah, that kind of makes sense.

One Find A always has more of an imprint. for people than I remember. I like that movie. I should re-watch it. I liked it at the time. Yeah, I did too. I think it's really good. I love what lies beneath.

Yeah, great movie. Watch that every year. I love it. Yep, yep, yep, totally. Okay, so Joe, for you, I went into the McGee-Spegel filmography. The friend actually has a deeper bench of stars than you might think. listener. And from those stars, I chose Carla Gugino. Oh, I love Gugino. Any television. A television movie, which is going to give it to you, but I have to... Gerald's game.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. But it's, it's TV. It's, well, it's a Netflix movie. It's a, I don't know. I would characterize it as a movie. They didn't put it in theater or that movie. Well, it's Netflix. Yeah, it's, you know. All right. Um Carla Gagino Movies All right So you've got like Um

I'm thinking of so many television shows Wait a second I got to clear my head Um This was a tiny bit evil of me I mean yeah A little Not not

Um So is it like, I know she's like in that Brian De Palma movie, Snake Eyes. Correct. Okay. All right. So that's two. That I think is probably the hardest because, or maybe, it's hard to say. Snake Eyes, she is definitely, I shouldn't be giving you clues yet, but that's definitely the highest billing she has in the two remaining movies.

There are two Dwayne Johnson movies that I can never remember which one is which, even though I've only seen one of them. I think the one I've seen is San Andreas since she's in that. Incorrect. Just to cover my bases, is it skyscraper that she's in? Also incorrect. Your years are 2007 and 2009. Okay.

One of these is a movie that tripped me up on a, I think, semi-recent IMDB game. 2007, she's not in hairspray. So that rules that out. Is she in across the universe? I don't believe so, but I am correct.

That was a movie that screwed you up recently, which is why I guessed that. 2007, 2009. Is she in Gone Baby Gone? Gone. Gone is not correct. Okay. Are both of these dramas? No.

One of them, sure. Um, thrillery, drama. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Has an acting nomination. Has an acting nomination? Well, a very well-chosen acting nomination for this episode. Oh, interesting. Your years are 07 and 09.

Right. 07 and 09, really well chosen. Is she in Michael Clayton? No. Oh, okay. I think that's what you were saying. All right. But follow that down. Follow that one acting nomination for this movie.

And this was her only Oscar nomination, right? Yeah. Yes. Tilda's only Oscar nomination. This person. Oh, the person thought, right, the Oscar nomination question. The thing about 07 is Michael Clayton's the only movie with multiple acting nominations? Is she an Eastern promise?

No, Vigo's been nominated. more times than that. Casey Affleck, Laurelini, Hal Holbrook. This person who got their only acting nomination for this movie was definitely not talked about ahead of the season. Other people were talked about for this movie ahead of the season. And then this person

became like the story. Oh. And Carla Jujino is in this movie. Okay. There's two headliners for this movie, and I'm willing to bet... I do not remember much about this movie at all. I'm willing to bet that she is the other headlines wife. Oh, interesting. The Messenger wasn't that year.

Or Mother? Mother? No. Is it Into the Wild? No. Um, okay, wait, actor is Daniel DeLuis, George Clooney, Vigo Mortensen, Tommy Lee Jones, and Johnny Depp. Not an actor nomination. Actress is Marianne Cotillard, Julie Christie, Laura Linney, Elliot Page, and Kate Blanchett.

Not that. No. Uh, supporting actress is Amy Ryan, you said, no, gone, maybe gone. Sir Sharon, and she's not in atonement. She's not in Michael Clayton, because I already asked, is she American gangster? American gangster, you got there. Wow. Wow.

Okay. O-9 is a comic book movie. It tripped me up on a semi-reason. Watchmen. Watchmen. Watchmen. I should have gotten that. Yes.

All right. Wow. Crazy. Okay. Um, here's what we're going to do. Here's what we're going to do. Um... All right.

It's just good Josh Lucas. I went through Jonathan Tucker, because we really didn't talk about Jonathan Tucker a ton. He was in, I don't know how mean I want to be to you, Bobby. Less mean. Okay. He was in a movie called The Ruins with a bunch of young actors, a really, really good and... Gross movie. Gross horror movie.

Also a really good book. I read the book. Um, but one of the co-stars in that movie was Jenna Malone. Okay. So I'm going to give you Jenna Malone. Okay. Um, contact? Yes, contact.

Stepmom? No, not stepmom. That's wild. Yeah. Actually, this is maybe... What's going to trip me up is I know she's in Hunger Games movies, but I'm not... Yeah, this is, now I'm realizing that, like, oh, this is maybe harder than, then I initially not. So contact, no stepmom.

Saved? No, even though it should be saved. Okay, so your years are 2013, 2015, 2016. Are they all Hunger Games movies? They're not all Hunger Games movies. Um, so that they were 20 what? 13, 15, 16. okay so that's after the first so catching fire catching fire which was her first Hunger Games movie

okay I thought she was in all of them um now I'm just trying to remember the names of the other mocking jay mocking jay mocking jay what oh god I'm gonna guess part two it is mocking jay part two okay okay so those are Or your 2013 and 2015. So 2016 is... It's not a hunger game? It's not a hunger game.

People hate this movie. I think it's kind of fun. People do kind of hate this movie. It's a lot. It's extra. It is a filmmaker who was very much of the 20 teens. And I know he's got another movie in the works now. He had been doing TV shows for a little bit.

Oh, isn't she in... Is it Sucker Punch? Isn't she in one of those Xx Lider? girlie movies she might actually be in sucker punch it's not sucker punch but um it's it's not entirely dissimilar a director to that it's like what if zach Snyder but um more euro trashy yeah euro trap oh okay what if a monster energy drink was from denmark oh is it uh okay it's um it's nicholas it's Nicholas Wending Reffin. It's Nicholas

Wending Reffin. Yes, it is. It's the, I hate this movie. I hate this movie. It's the Neon Demon. It's the Neon demon. I did not do many interviews when I worked at Jezebel, but I interviewed Nicholas Wending Reffin, and it's one of the only in-person junket interviews

I did for the website, and he was the biggest prick on the planet. I believe it. I was like, I could not believe it. Oh, and I hated the movie walking into it, and I hated it even more when I left. I did not care for this movie Who is the main

It's not El Fanning Oh it is El Fanning It is El Fanning Al Fanning but also Abby Lee is also I kind of love Abby Lee Oh Abby Lee is who I'm thinking about Abby Lee is what I'm thinking about Yes

Remember when Abby Lee was in movies Remember when Abby Lee turned herself into Brussels and old Carl Gloosman Carl Gloosman Remember when Keanu Reeves shows up For Epps was in this He is yeah yeah

You're seen Hendricks Yeah Bella Heathcote. I didn't know Nicholas Wending Refen was making more things. I thought we were done with him. I just saw something recently about. He's making a movie for Neon. Oh.

Yes, it is called... I hate him. Is this the one that's called Her Private Hell? God, that's such a Nicholas Vending Refan with Sophie Thatcher and Charles Melton. Yeah, I think this is the one that I saw in Diego Calva. You just know that Nicholas Wending Refan saw Sophie Thatcher and was like, like, I need her or something. I do love Sophie Thatcher, but yes, you're not wrong.

You're not wrong at all. All right. Wow. Excellent. Excellent job by everybody. Okay. Bobby Finger, yet again, cannot thank you enough for coming by and talking. We always love having you.

Yes. This was so much fun. Where should we send our listeners to hear more from you, to read more from you, etc. Just listen to Who Weekly, wherever you get your podcasts. Whoever you get your podcast. Yeah.

All right. Wonderful. Read the four squares, which is out in paper back now. See? Go read four squares. Bobby, I don't know if we've talked since I read it,

but I loved it so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. I, yeah, it's, and it's, well,

we're recording this on Pride Month, so that's kind of fun. So I don't know when this episode comes out. It'll come out right after Pride Month, so no more pride after. We're done with it. We're done with it. gay rage um but i am very proud impaled on an anchor actually after

right exactly exactly but it was an accident it was a total accident now we got to go hide pride month's car oh my god that was the other tacky the last thing i'll say i'm sorry i know we need to end but like no i was imagining myself in the theater seeing the deep end when she when she parks the car the ugly corvette she leaves and she walks away and you're going, wipe your fingerprints, girl. Yes. And she goes back. I was like, I bet this tiny little crowds of people who saw the deep end applauded when she went back and did that.

Because it's just like, thank God. Okay, I'm sorry. No, it's perfect. Thank you for having me. That is our episode. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscurbuzz.com. You should also follow our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. You can also join up with our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz.

Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed and Blue Sky, Chris v. File. I am also on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D, and you can subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at patreon.com slash Demi Pod. That is, D-E-M-I-P-O-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork,

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