This Had Oscar Buzz - 353 – Mamma Mia! (w/ Jorge Molina!)

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

With Meryl currently on her first film set in years, what better time than to dance, jive, and generally speaking have the time of our lives. We’ve invited our friend, writer and programmer Jorge Molina to discuss the Meryl movie that didn’t get her an Oscar nomination in 2008. A post 9/11 hit on the … Continue reading "353 – Mamma Mia! (w/ Jorge Molina!)"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hacks and friends. Dick Pooh. Oh, no. So who is your dad? Why, why?

I don't know. It's very Greek. Somebody up there has got it in for me. I bet it's my mother. Take a trip down the aisle. Do you father here? Do you tell me? You'll never forget.

Sophia. I am. Your father. What? Mama Mia. It's a mama Mia. What? Nothing.

Don't push it, Liz. Let it happen. There's going to be a Mamma Mina. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that used to be another podcast until we both opened enchanted fortune cookies and swapped. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we're. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my young and sweet co-host of only 17. Chris Fial, hello, Chris. I thought I was your auntie Tanya. Does your mother know that you're podcasting here today? As ever, we want to waste no time in welcoming our kids. guest for this episode. We could not possibly have thought about talking about Mamma Mia without having this guest on. And if we did, I imagine there would be lifelong consequences, let's say.

This has been on the perpetual, like, well, yeah, we're eventually going to do this. And then we were just like, you know what, let's pull the trigger. Let's do something fun. For his fourth time, third time on the main feed, fourth time overall talking with us, we are welcoming back, writer and programmer Jorge Molina Jorge, welcome back to this how this episode was. Hi, I am the old woman carrying a bunch of faggots just screaming

The true star of the movie, woman with faggis. Hey, some people that could have returned to the sequel did not and she did. And she did. There we go. Okay. Perfect. No, thank you for having me. This, honestly, I don't think I ever saw a world in which there would be an episode of

on Mamma Mia but that Golden Globe nomination is carrying a lot of weight for us right now but that's fine. The Golden Globe nomination, also the money. Let's talk about how much money this could be made. Yes, yes, yes. No, when you get into it there are some avenues that could have been awarded. I think there's some craft categories that it could be if the Oscars were not cowards. If our listeners are curious, in our outline, we tend to separate our notes for reasons why a movie did have Oscar buzz, why it ultimately failed, and then miscellania.

And under why did it fail, all we have there is the 55% Rotten Tomatoes score and 51% Metacritic score. And that's kind of the ballgame. It's, yeah, the Academy are cowards. That's why. It's utter cowards. But it's a movie with Meryl Streep. I don't think there's really any movie with Meryl Streep that you could firmly just, like, not do on our show. Oh, no, 100%.

Is this our 20th Meryl? It is, in fact, our, I believe, 13th Meryl? Hold on a second. Oh, so we've done more Nicole movies than we've done Meryl. Let's see. No, it is. 13 is my lucky number. It's our 13th Meryl.

We've only done 12, Nicole. So Meryl does pull in the head of Nicole right now. Okay. But how many Matt Damon's? Matt Damon's only at 11. He's only at 11. Wow, Samarro is the most. Wow, I'm misremembering my own show.

Yeah. Y'all need to do the prom next so that... Oh, we're going to eventually do the prom. We will eventually do the prom. No, but they're both... I was going to say so Nicole can pull ahead, but they're both in the prom. No, they're both from the prom. Yep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, we'll definitely do the prom. No, we couldn't... We couldn't think of anybody else to talk about this movie, but you, Jorge, and when we reached out, the reaction, I'm going to say, was a bullion. and made by day. That was so much fun. So when we have a returning guest,

and they have selected a movie, in this case, we selected it for you, but you have selected it through your life's world, really. I think life has selected this movie. Exactly. So we tend to ask, like, why? Why Mamma Mia? And I, it's, you know, humorous.

Humorous, Jorge, with your, where did, when did Mama Mia come to you? When did it become, like, your thing? Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I, look, everyone who, if you followed me on social media, and I'm less active on socials now because. Justures around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know that I made this movie kind of like my brand in a winky, winky way.

But, no, this movie actually does mean like a great deal for me. It's by far the movie I've seen most times in my lifetime. Yeah. Far and ahead I've seen. I was trying to, like, I don't, I, maybe, like, 50 times more than 50, like, I've seen it a while. But so, so I'll place you all in my, like, how it came into my life. So I was, it came out in, if, if I grew up in Mexico, so I didn't grow up in the States. So this movie came out, like, a few months after the US release.

Yes. It, it didn't have the, the, the dark night counter-programming aspect. that it, that it, I had forgotten that it was specifically. Original Barmaheimer. Original Barmaheim, yeah. Exactly. Darka Mia. Because like with all of the box office stories at the time, it wasn't like promoted as

Barbenheimer the way it was. No. All of the box office stories, it was on top of the Dark Night doing crazy numbers. It was, oh yeah. And also Mama Mia made a crazy amount of money. But it was also like, hey, women and gay people. like you can go see something while your boyfriend goes and sees you know it's like the counter like the most blatant example of counter programming um yeah yeah but so that we did not have that uh i actually was not aware of the musical like it was in in my i think i was just i was i must have been about like 15 years old yeah around this time yeah uh so i was just starting to like make my way through broadway and it was like you know still very surface level and whatnot uh but you know i was big fan of musicals, I was starting to, like, get my knowledge on, like, movie musicals and start, you know, going beyond the, like, big ones.

But, um, I remember on our, because we have on Mexico, like, the equivalent of entertainment weekly, like, it was, we had a couple of magazines. And we also had, like, the summer, fall preview, um, edition. Yeah. Very, very similar. Um, and I just remember going through it and there was this little, little tiny, um, a block of text, uh, that was, you know, Mama Mia. I remember it very vividly It was the image of Marilyn Pierce Brothman back to back singing SOS. Oh, perfect. You know, that still.

And, you know, and it was, it set the premise, but at the end it was, like, based on the hit Broadway musical. Yeah. And that just, like, you know, my little antenna was like, oh, this looks interesting.

Yeah. I knew the music of Baba, but, you know, in the way that, like, being in culture in any point of time, you knew kind of the music of Baba. But I wasn't really,

like a big fan or anything. So it came out, like, my first week of ninth grade. So it was, like, early September, late August, early September, uh, first week of, uh, ninth grade. And every weekend, me and my friends would go to, like, the mall, the local mall in, like, my small suburban town. And I knew it was out, but, like, we were, like, figuring on what to do. And I'm like, let's just go watch this movie.

Like, who, like, who knows what it will be, right? Right. Um, like, trying to, like, you know, I knew it. what it was, but, you know, it was like, playing it cool, playing a cool. So, like, they were like, okay, fine, let's go. Uh, so it was like five of us. And we'd go into this movie, they don't know what it's about. And, you know, and then it opens and it starts right away with, like, this is a big, loud, musical. It's, you know, Amanda Seafrit singing, I have a dream. And I just feel the groans, like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I'm like, yeah, sorry, guys,

I did, I have no idea what it was. Um, And then it just keeps going, it keeps going. And it's, I can pinpoint the exact moment. The moment in money, money, money, when you pan out and you see Merrill in like the flowy fabrics and Julie Walters and Christine Baransky riding those jet skis, I literally felt a switch, like, inside me. I was like, oh, this is weird. A ring of keys emerged in front of you. It was a much of a ring. a ring of keys moment, right?

Yes, yes. And it was the first time in my life, and this is like, you know, looking back at, you know, my own film history and whatnot. But, like, that I could understand that, like, oh, I'm enjoying this in a way that it's different from the way people around me are enjoying this. Right. And I'm enjoying this in a way that I can't let people know that I'm enjoying this. They can't know. This is why I know. Yeah.

And so I just, I was having the fucking time of my life, but I couldn't say it out loud, right? I had to just, like, roll my eyes and play it cool, but, like, the minute that screening ended, and if we all went our merry way, I stayed at the mall, went to the CD store and bought the soundtrack. Fantastic. And we just played it and played, and it was overplayed for, like, the next six months. Amazing. Just, like, a love story began, right? But, yeah, I don't know. it was it was it's it's truly the first movie that made me understand that I can

can take entertainment in a different way and I understand it and and my own lens is different than yes kind of what I was conditioned to do yes uh so yeah that was you know and it was a journey from like oh this is a guilty pleasure to like oh this is an actual pleasure that I enjoy right and it became like a comfort movie and and then when 10 years after the sequel came out, and I was, you know, living in Los Angeles with, like, openly gay, with, like, a group of friends that loved it as much as I did. And, you know, we went to the opening night of the sequel in our Dynamo costumes, right? And it just felt, like, very full circle that I'm like,

oh, I could not be as open about enjoying the first one as the second one. Right. This is your reward now. This was my full circle. Fantastic. It's, there isn't actually, you know, earnest, and it, it's moment. And up until then, you know, one of the things I'm most fascinating about is just how, and you guys understand this, the entertainment we consume kind of like, shape us and do that. And this movie was the first one to make me really understand that. And that opened the doors to the, you know, the rest of the avocado along and like, oh, is this the best band to have ever lived?

And yes, it is. And, you know, and then that love affair with them. Yes. Yeah, this movie holds a very, very special place in my heart. And again, I know it through the back of my hand. I can recite it. I've seen it many times in theaters, many times at home in parks at it's, yeah. Yes, homes, parks, bars everywhere, other people's homes.

Everywhere. What you say about... Oculus. Yeah. Right. Okay, if you're strapping on an Oculus and watching Mamma Mia, what environment are you watching Mamma Mia in? Like, wide environment?

Like, I feel like you gotta be on a beach, right? You've got to be on... You've got to be on a beach. Yeah. You're in the Parthenon. Right, right. I personally would like to watch this movie in space with the aliens.

Fair, that's fair. That's the only movie. Let me show you my species. If we want them to come in peace, that's one movie we show them. It's... Jorge, what you say about, like the way that we can take in entertainment and sort of make it into our experience of our own and sort of

different people can appreciate things on different levels. What I think is so interesting about Mamma Mia is and again I was, I like you, like knew, I knew there existed a musical called Mamma Mia. The only thing I really knew of it was that big like the billboard sized whatever like marquee with like the lady and the bridle got laughing, the lady, which is based off of a stock photo, too. It's very stock photo-esque. That article, that was like that investigative article about cracking down the woman. Yeah. Perfect.

But I know that like even on that thing, like it says like based on the music of Abba, but like I never really investigated it that closely. So I didn't know that Mamma Mia was in Abba jukebox musical until I think probably the movie was in the works. Um, and, but one of the things I think is interesting is that, like, it's a super long running show. It was the first major show on Broadway to open after 9-11. It opens in October of 2001. And then it runs for like 20 something years or whatever, um, or almost 20 years, something like that. Um, coming back to Broadway this month, baby. It is coming back to Broadway. Coming back to the winter garden, right? I believe. Like where it belongs. Yes. Um, but my sense is, um, but my sense is, and I believe I'm right on this is that it was not this hugely well-regarded show among like theater queen types like it's not like the Broadway gaze

were like out in force for this like this sort of you put it in the same bucket as maybe not quite cats and phantom but like certainly in the bucket of like oh that thing that was incredibly popular and ran for a long time

but like we don't really respect it it's not really like fine theater It's certainly no, like, you know, Sondheim or any of the classics or whatever or any, like, daring new, you know, work of musical theater. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even best musical nominated. It was nominated, but it did not win. It lost, too. It lost all the big awards that year to Thoroughly Modern Millie.

Like, thoroughly modern Millie kind of cleaned up. Yeah. Yeah, I always equated to, like, you know, the Chicago Revival or, like, Book of Mormon or, you know, the things that, like, tourists. from, like, the Midwest will go and see. This is sort of how we kind of... I mean, Hamilton has eight tons of other kinds of baggage on it, but when it's sort of settled into this thing of like, well, like, Hamilton's, you know, not...

It's not cool to be like, you know, a Hamilton queer or whatever. But I think what the Mamma Mia movie did, and I think in part because it is so charmingly shaggy. Like, it's... There's greatness in it, but it's like, there's all... It's mostly just, like, it's messy and it's, you know, at times very, like, confidently not good, you know? Philano Lloyd almost never knows where the camera is.

Well, and it's just like, and it has cast a bunch of people without regard to, like, whether they can sing. And, like, the Vogue oral history from a few years ago that I sort of, like, mainlined today has a lot of wonderful quotes, and I'll probably be referencing a few of them. But one of them was, you know, I think. it was phillet lloyd but it might have been one of the producers we're just like we cast for people we thought fit the roles and we didn't really consider we didn't really feel like we wanted to consider singing ability and i'm like well good because you nailed that brief then because um but i think

that part i mean i really think it's only two people in this movie that can't sing i don't know if it's necessarily can't sing but like i think even some of the people who can sing are maybe not perfectly suited to the types of songs that the rest to sing like i think julie walters is a talented person, but, like, I don't think Julie Walters is particularly well-suited to singing, like, take a chance of me. I also think that, I mean, the, the, and I think this ties both to the fact that it's Abba, who the songs are about, right? Yeah. It's not like, you know, again, this is, ah by something I could just, like, talk and forever about, but they were never known as, like, you know, the, the belters or the big singers. I don't think there's a reverence.

There's not like a reverence of like, oh, these songs need to be a paid, like, sang right? There's deference, yes, yeah, yeah. There's deference. And, or not even deference, it's just like, oh, this is like, for me that the whole, the vibe of the whole Mamma Mia industrial complex is, it's like a, you're drunk at the beach doing karaoke. Yeah, like that's what it should feel like. 100%. Watching the show, watching the movie. That's probably what I thought, like, shooting.

not, like, for all accounts, like, that's what it was, like, shooting the movie, right? Well, and this is why it fits in perfectly with this vibe of, like, musical Mondays at gay bars and, like, you know, queer karaoke and stuff. And it's, yeah, it's, I think there's a sense of, like, just let's come, let's have a shot and have some fun with us. And, like, if you can hit the notes, like, who cares? We're all friends here, right? Like, that's. There's an air of unpretentious sort of, like, like, you.

wilding out a little bit of like of watching like and it's and it's part of it's also it's like it's watching like your mom and her friends like get drunk and do karaoke which is like charming in its own way and it's also like it's not asking you to like take these three guys particularly like seriously as you know these romantic you know devastatingly romantic people even dominic Cooper who sort of like exists to be like the hot boy in this like is kind of he's he's not really set up for like the audience to swoon over him you sort of like appreciate that he's there or whatever but he's kind of like charmingly and essential right in a way that I think he plays very well I think everybody's just sort of game to have you know a gay old time with this

movie and I think that like that's why you have seen this movie get really, this movie, and especially the second one, get really latched on to by queer audiences. Yeah, I mean, the star, and I think that's true of the show as well, right? The star of the movie is the song so blah, blah. Yeah.

It's like, it's, the plot is, you know, and you see it in the oral history of like, okay, how did they come about? But like, it's an excuse to just showcase a bunch of songs. Yeah. I think it was such a big hit because, I mean, and again, I'm also referencing that oral history,

but like, you know, the country needed a lift in a very, very dark time. Absolutely, yeah. What's, you know, what's better to get away from the world and go to a Greek beach and listen to Dancing Queen, right? Like that, and dance on the aisles because, like, that's, have you ever seen it, the show live? I've never seen the show live. Oh, yes, absolutely. No, I never heard of it. I saw it second row in Toronto for the first time, and it was my, uh, my intro to a live album.

Was it also at the Winter Garden in Toronto? No, it was at the Royal Alexander Oh, is it the Royal Alexander? Yeah, okay But you know, but that feel of like, like the movie has That, you know, everyone's drunk by the time Waterloo comes in And like that's what the show does, right? Everyone stands up and goes to the aisle

Yes, every production, yeah, because I've seen it I've seen the touring version, I've seen the Hollywood Bowl version, did a few production of it a few years ago I've seen it in Mexico in Spanish, which is Awesome Was kind of a trip, but it was fucking awesome Yeah, and there's always that sense of like

calm well there's also and like i'm old enough to remember when because you know one of the things about about aba is they were very much like the uncool band right they were the they were the they were square they were you know sort of silly and like euro but not in a cool way and pop in an era were like even like the pop stuff was like disco right so they're not disco they're certainly not rock and they're just sort of this like secret third Swedish thing and it wasn't until they released a big gold in the early 90s and like that was all of a sudden it was when CDs were first becoming a thing and like I don't know whether it was featured in the like the Columbia house DVD club or whatever but like everybody had abogold and that's when everybody sort of started

to realize that like oh not only are these like songs that I remember but like this There are no skips in this. Like, they have so many hits. They have so many hits. So I recently read slash hard, because I heard the audiobook of, like, you know, the 33 and a half book series? Yes. Yes. There's one on Abigold that I highly recommend.

And it makes, you know, it starts up by making the argument that, like, how is a compilation album, the best album in someone's. Yes. And it just kind of explains what it is, is that, like, they were always a hit, a single album, a band, right? Like, even their discographies, even though there's songs I love, like it was never about the cohesive of the work of the albums. It became a thing when it was in the flow of Abigold and, like, what songs they chose to pick.

It's very interesting. I highly recommend it. I listen to the audiobook on Spotify. And it's very short. It's like three hours long. Yeah. It has to be super emblematic, too, of what modern pop music would become, too, in the focus on singles.

Yeah. versus albums. Definitely. Well, and I also, like, I, who was into a lot of different kinds of, like, classic rock or, like, 70s music, like, I had so many greatest hits collections. Like, that's how I got into Pet Benatar, that's how I get into Blondie. That's how I got into Bruce Brinstein. That's how I get into, like, Van Morrison.

Like, that's all, like, all of these people, that's how I get into Billy Joel. Billy Joel had that, like, double disc greatest hits thing. But, like, that was another album that I think everybody I know has. And that was just sort of, so, like, I kind of... Is the Eagles greatest hits still the best-selling album in America? Very well might be. And that was, like, volume one of a two-volume thing. Yes, totally, absolutely.

But, like, that is how, like, even, like, Fleetwood Mac the Dance, which is, like, I own Fleetwood Mac's greatest hits. I also own Fleetwood Max the Dance. I'm like, yes, I eventually, like, bought Rumors. And, like, of course, like, would understand why rumors as a, like, you know, concise object is so wonderful. But, like, I did not get to know Fleetwood Mac through rumors. I got to know Fleetwood Mac through their greatest hits. And so, like, I was kind of raised by Greatest Tits album. So, like, Aba Gold was the pinnacle of that. And it was mostly just, like, to me,

it was a numbers game. To me, it was just like, look how many songs are just, like, absolute bangers on this album. And they're super fun. And so I think Mama Mia sort of helped, both of them helped each other, right? Like, the one, they, they kind of combined to give people this new, this renewed sense of, and maybe for the first time, this respect for Abba as a band. It was just like, oh, like, writing that many hits isn't an accident. Like, like, coming up, like, you know, having that many hits to your name is not an accident. And this is also kind of how, like, the movie becomes a perfect storm in a way, because it, you know, is grabbing from a lot of different people. It might be Abba fans. It might be Merrill fans. It might be musical fans.

I think, you know, there's also something about this movie, too. I think this is, the movie is kind of how I think theater people came to respect Mamma Mia more than they did than just the stage version. Because there is an element of this movie, too, that I think through the, like, upbeat, escapist energy. of Abba's pop music that this is kind of the like unabashed, unashamed musical that is just like the movie musical

that those of us who love musicals want more of where it's like, yes, it is just breaking out into singing with no excuses, no ask it, no like apologizing to the audience for being a musical. Right. Even Chicago, which is another movie that like I think we all love.

Chicago has to create this superstructure. conceptual. They exist in a liminal space. And that's why kind of nine kind of sucks is nine sort of like lays bare the idea that like, oh, you kind of really don't have very many ideas for how to make a movie musical other than like, you know, they're imaginary. It's everything's imaginary. Even something like Dreamgirls, which I think is kind of like a borderline perfect movie musical, still exist within a world where it is normal for those people to be singing. when we're watching them saying. And there are still people who, like, it's amazing to me that even now, there are people who are just like, I just can't reconcile the strangeness of people breaking into song

in movies. And it's the one of the few things. I just can't reconcile that I'm not fun. Well, I want to sort of grant people grace or whatever because, like, I understand that, like, we like what we like and certain things we can't. Like, there's certain kinds of music that I can't get into. And, like, that's fine. Like, I, you know, somebody who's, like, super, super into, like, you know, metal or whatever.

Like, I will never, you know, I'll never get it. But, like, it is interesting to me that, like, it is one of the few things that people can sort of, like, just sort of throw up their hands and be like, well, I'm never going to get it. And then, like, sort of, like, walk away from a whole genre. But that argument always just frustrates me so much because there are so many other suspension of disbelief that we just bought into. We send cars to space in movies. Exactly. Like the amount of, you know, right.

People that get shot in, you know, action movies, the coincidences that need to happen in a rom-com, right? Like, all of these that you are just buying into movie logic world. Yes. Like without and, but this one is like, like, that's just, I don't know. No, I think especially modern post-music video audiences, I really don't understand why those people have a, a hard time with musicals. It's like

a generation that grew up on MTV, you know? And I guess maybe that is a distilled specific music videos and very specific object, but like... Well, also music videos are not a thing anymore. Well, they're not a thing anymore.

Like, but... Yeah, but certainly like multiple generations of people were raised on... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. Um... Yeah, like I don't... I agree with you, Chris, that the temptation is just to be like, God, you're so boring. But like, I really do feel like, I have enough, like, blind spots where I'm just like, oh, God, another Western. But I also feel like, oh, the Western is a genre I don't appreciate. And yet I could probably name you 10 Westerns that I really love. Because I remain open to it. And I sort of like, even though I know that it's not my thing, I will remain open to something. And a lot, you know, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule. And I feel like, when musicals, people sort of write themselves the permission slip to be like, I think it's dumb. I don't like it.

Not to excuse heteronormitivity, but it's also easy for us as gay guys to talk about like the Ring of Keys moment for musicals. Because like for me, it's the girl group in Little Shop of Horrors. For me, it's Bell running up the mountainside and then doing that I want to adventure in the Great Way somewhere thing. Like, you know, it's there, I feel like as gay guys, we all have those attached moments. to musicals in a way. Well, and I do think this, I don't know, like, it's this rejection of, like, earnestness

and, like, vocal vulnerability, right? Like, what's more vulnerable than, like, breaking into song when you're, like, look at the three men in this movie, and you tell me what vulnerability looks like. That's what vulnerability looks like. Yep. They are put themselves out there. Vulnerability sound is singing SOS while sounding like a dying water buffalo. It's true. And I give them so much credit for that.

Like, honestly, like, I posted a clip of Colin Firth from the Vuley Vue number last night on my Instagram. And I'm like, this honestly might be my favorite Colin Firth performance, not only the movie, but like that scene specifically, because he's so incredibly unconcerned. Well, hot, yes, incredibly hot in this movie. But also, he's so incredibly unconcerned with any kind of, like, restraint. in any way where he's just like Sophie, I'm your father and he's just like

it's great and it's such a and then he sort of walks away from the scene sort of like dad dancing it's great yeah the thing is great

and I also love how in the year since like every single person involved with it defends it and they all had such a great time making it and it's like it was the fucking best time

of my life and I would come to a third in a heartbeat and they all have nothing but lovely things to say about each other and like yeah it was ridiculous

us but like so what it's i hope that mamma three uh absolutely much the way here we go again uh does not is not congruent logically to things that happen in mamma mia you know that it breaks certain rules and logic what if don't is just alive again that maryl Streep's mom is dead and then their shares oh yeah yeah so what if donna's just alive in the third one and nobody mentioned great perfect exactly she's exactly what i want running the end as normal yeah Yeah, it's in between. Like, it happens between the first one and the second one. Yes.

Well, I think what they've talked about is having Sabrina Carpenter be the daughter. Like, I need Sabrina Carpenter to either play an eight-year-old or I need Sabrina Carpenter to be, like, 25 while Amanda Cypred is still, like, 35. Why do you insist on doing this to me? They've talked about it. Sabrina Carpenter has had. Why? What is her claim? What is her claim on Mamma Mia?

Why does she get Mamma Mia? She sounds and looks so much like Amanda Seifred. Like Amanda Seifred, yeah. But also, like, canonically, they have a son in the second one, so... But that could change from movie to movie. But that could change. Then it should be triplets. Yeah.

Like the parent trap three, but all of a sudden there's triplets in the parent tree? I can't go about, because I do have a plan for our mama three, but I can't wait. Okay, we'll get into that. No, you should not. No, you're not going to keep that zip. No, no, no, I can. It's just like that would become... Two hours of my time.

Well, yeah, but we also don't want to have it, like, out there where people could, like, steal it. So, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want you to get that gig. I want that gig. But, no, you know, they, Abba released a full new album and since the last one came out. So there's a lot new songs to take from. Some songs that haven't been used yet.

What's your favorite Abba song that should be in Mama Thria? My favorite Abba song, period, is The Visitors. Um, but, which hasn't been used. And it's a weird song because it doesn't really sound like Abba. Um, and I have a use for it in my concept. But, um, no, I think it's crazy that if it wasn't for the nights, I've been used, that summer night city hasn't been used. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Well, and they talk about that. Didn't they have, like, people like audition with Summer Night City or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy that under attack, which is in the show, was cut from the movie. Yeah. Summer Night City, I think they said in the movie.

that vogue oral history was like originally going to possibly be the title for the thing. And they're like, but it's not really a city. It's more an island. So we change it. And they're like, and it ended up being Mamma Mia even though it's not Italy. So like whatever. Yeah, yeah. But it's about mama. It is about one mama. Yes. All right. We don't want to delay any more into getting into the thick of it because there's plenty to talk about. But before we have Jorge do the 60 second plot description, Chris, why don't you let our listeners know why they should be subscribed to our Patreon. More of this, but in a slightly different concept, over on our Patreon, which we call this had Oscar Buzz Turbulent, brilliance. You can, for $5 a month, get two bonus episodes, the

first of which will arrive on the first Friday of every month. We call these episodes exceptions. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar Buzz rubric of great expectations and disappointing results, except this time this disappointing result is a few Oscar nominations here or there. These are movies like, most recently, Big Fish, interview with the vampire. We've done movies like Madonna's We, E, The Mirror Has Two Faces. We've even had guest episodes, including Jorge On For Knives Out. We've done movies like Vanilla Sky, House of Gucci, Far from Heaven, Mulholland Drive, tons and tons of movies.

It's there. Two years' worth of episodes, go check them out. But also, on the third Friday of every month, you're going to get what we call an excurs. These are deep dives into Oscar ephemera. We love to obsess about on this show. Things like recapping old award shows. We recently recapped the 1988 Academy Awards or the 61st Academy Awards for the films of 1988, which includes the infamous Snow White Rob Lo intro.

We've talked about Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtables. We've done a game night. We love talking about Entertainment Weekly Fall movie previews, so that's what we're doing this month, we're talking about the 2000 issue with Tom Hanks in his giant castaway beard on the cover. Yes. Looking like a copy of the weekly world news. Yes.

It should be a time. Should be a time. All that is waiting for you and will be there for you in the future. So go sign up to This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent Brilliance over on patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Absolutely. All right. Jorge limber up. We're going to be in a few seconds talking about the plot, the intricate plot, the absolutely essential plot elements of Mamma Mia. The 2008 film directed by Philatilloyd, written by Catherine Johnson, based on her original musical, starring Merrill Streep, Amanda Seifred, Pierce, Brosnan, Colin Firth, Stellans, Skarsgard, Christine Bransky, Julie Walters, Dominic, Various Greek women and backup dancers.

It was distributed by Universal Pictures premiered on July 18th, 2008. As we mentioned, finished a bit of a distant second to the dark night. Missed it by about $120 or $130 million. So just barely. But it did hold on to second place. So eat that, Hancock. And I believe the largest opening for a live action musical at that point. Very good.

Well done. Well done. I could be wrong, but at least close to it. Listen, spiritually, you're correct. All right. So, Jorge, I have my stopwatch ready. If you are ready to do a 60-second plot for Mamma Mia, your time will begin now. Okay. Sophie is a young woman who lived with her mother, Donna, in a remote Greek island where they were on a hotel together. Sophie is about to get married, but wants her real father to give her away, and going through her mother's journal from the year she was pregnant with her.

Sophie learns that Donna actually slept with three different men and secretly invites them all to the wedding in hopes of learning who her real father is. And this is where I realize that Mamma Mia actually has very little to no plot, because not much happens after this until Sophie realizes that Donna is actually the only family she ever needed, and she is just happy with having three potential fathers in her life. But Mamma Mia is not about plot. It's a movie entirely about vibes. It's a movie about scenes loosely tied together by the pop perfection of the Abbasong catalog. It's about Christine Baranski and Julie Walters riding Jetskis on a yacht. It's about Pierce Brotham sounding like drunk karaoke and singing having the best time of his life. It's about Meryl's doing pantomime on top of a Greek cliff and knowing that the entire class was blackout drunk the entirety of the filming and Hong sounds like penguins on a dock and feeling exactly like you just took a shot of Uzo and an edible on the beach and no work emails are waiting for you for days.

Mamma Mia is a state of mind. Mama Mia is a lifestyle. Four seconds over, Jorge. The most beautiful 60 second plot description we've ever had. That's incredible. Well done. Well done, Jorge. Yeah, I mean... Mamma Mia is how your email finds me. Exactly. That's my out of office. It's on. One of the things that I find to be, it's not a flaw in the movie because, like, you know, movies have plots where you can just be like, you know, take a step back.

But the idea that if we're going to say that there is a central sort of like conflict in this movie, it is between Donna and Sophie. in the sense of Sophie is planning on staying on to, you know, help her mother run the inn on the island, but really has dreams to, you know, spread her wings and whatever. And ultimately, the resolution to this movie is Donna, you know, realizing that in order for her daughter to have the best life, she needs to let her go and, you know, fly, fly, fly, or whatever. and all I can think of is like you're you're already you're already there you've you've attained the life of I'm going to go lit my entire rest of my life is going to be living on this beautiful like idyllic Greek island running an inn and essentially just sort of like you

know operating it at a loss maybe but like where are you going to go on vacation you live on vacation where are you going to like what are you going to buy you have you have all of the things that I am going to work my entire lifetime to have, in addition to the hottest husband I've ever seen. So, like, truly... The hottest husband you've ever seen, but he wants to, like, blow up the business. He wants them to be, like, fully booked, and it's like, I don't think he understands the vision. But, but at the worst case scenario, then, he makes your business profitable. You know what I mean?

Yes, but then you have to work harder. I don't want to open it. a Greek aisle in to have to work hard. I want to have enough guess that I can cheat. Sure. But my point remains that like the whole movie, and I get it, like, movies are about like emotional fulfillment. And sure, like, you want to like, you want to see the world. You want to set your sale. You want to like whatever. And it's just like, cool. Except like all this way, all the, all the reasons that I would have to do that are to end up on this Greek island running an inn. So Jesus Christ. All it's missing is a movie theater. That's the only thing that's missing from this. Yeah, I mean, I will say if it's, it is a very nice island, but if she was born and raised, like, I can understand the impulse of like, sure. It seems pretty easy to get to the mainland. For sure.

I'm definitely being the devil's advocate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, wanting to see more, right? Because she's not even saying, like, I'm going to leave forever, right? She's going to, like, let me just. Enjoy Slovenia, Sophie, and then come back to, like, beautiful, gorgeous Greece or whatever. Like, Jesus. No shade to Slovenia.

Sure, it's lovely. There's no real plot mechanism stakes here. But what I do think are constantly present are emotional stakes. I think, you know, the, it's not about here's what's happening. It's here's what the emotional texture is morphing into throughout the whole movie, you know, or from number to number to number. And it's very sort of like, it's these, I don't want to say basic because basic has a connotation of judgment to it, but it's like these very sort of like elemental.

conflicts, which is, you know, mother, daughter, safety versus freedom. You know what I mean? It's these, you know, it's the basic building blocks. And that's fine, because then you, on top of those building blocks, you hang these wonderful songs performed with absolute lunacy. And that is what we, what we want, what we are looking for. I also think I will say for as much as I sort of like, will say that, like, performed with absolute lunacy. I do feel like the movie sets up its chess pieces rather well and expeditiously, right? We're like, it immediately starts with a song. It immediately starts with sort of Sophie singing, I have a dream, and it's your, you know, whatever, like, I want song, which I think has become sort of a little bit of a cliche, but like it is.

money money money is also an i want song does she take the little rowboat to the other island so that she can find the one mailbox yeah who wants to go to the mainland with a guy in a robo well i mean me kind of depending on the guy in the road you know you know the cruising scene in that island it's crazy well i mean certainly by the time we get to i also love by the way that like the way that the adults pair up in the end where it's merrill like when they're all dancing whatever at wedding reception. Obviously, Meryl's with Pierce Brosnan, and Stellan Scarsgaard and Julie Walters have coupled up. And then Colin Firth... And the gay man would go with Christine Branski. Well, Colin Firth and Christine Branski, because both, yes, the gay man would go to Christine Bransky,

but it's also just like, they're both the ones like hooking up with younger men on the island. It's just like, yes, yes, yes, work. Comparing notes. I do like the minor change of Harry having the gay revelation while in Greece because in the stage version he's already married with a husband. Does he have the gay revelation or is that just the misunderstanding that Stellan Scarsgaard has? Because I feel like...

No, I think he has a gay revelation. I think that's open to... I think when he says to Meryl, he says, you were the first woman I ever loved and he said, but you were the last woman I ever loved. Like, I do feel like he's been gay. He's just, the, the, the, the, the, Stalin. It's just not been cruising through the room.

Right. And it's just like he, yes. And I think Stalin was like, you never knew this. And, and Firth thinks he's talking about, um, so. Yeah, that's Sophie. Yeah. Oh. I think that's it. Yeah. I think I, I can see. Yeah, no, that's, that's what happens. And I think, yeah, he could be a very particular type of man of gay man, right? Like that's sure. Yes. Yes. To himself never. Like, you know, it's not like he goes to Mekonos every summer and, like, it's, you know, he enjoys staying in with his dogs and like... What is he a gay man with no job? He can't afford to go to Mekonos. Yeah, exactly, yeah. No, we see him at his job.

We do in fake... No way, that maybe... He's in real London. Pierce Brosnan is in fake New York. It's in, yeah, fake New York. Yes. I love finding out that, like, most of this movie was filmed at Pinewood Studios in London. Very funny.

Because they do a very good job of using the few exteriors that they have to fake their way. Like, I never really sort of snapped to any kind of like, oh, this is like obviously fake. Yeah, I think once you learn that, it becomes more. And it's much more obvious in the second one. Like the second one feels fully like a, you know, like a back lot, you know, Universal Studios. Which is fine. We love that. I want to ride that Universal Studios ride.

Wow, the Mamma Mia ride. It's a water ride. Anamatronic share. Christine Moranski does a fan kick in front of the whole boat. We can go hijack Pirates of the Caribbean at Disney World and completely re-theme it to be a Mamma Mia ride. One million percent, yes. Mama Mia. Yeah, that final when Jack Sparrow is on the top of money is your share.

Mama Mia at World's End. Mama Mia, Dead Man Tell No Tale. I'm into it. I'm very much into it. I love it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's, no, but I do, I love how, I mean, and maybe this is a happy accident that the creators is stumbled on, but, you know, before a movie about three fathers, it's a movie about motherhood, right? Yeah, yes.

Mother and daughter, and that's the titular mama, even though the song has nothing to do with motherhood or anything. Not a bit. But, you know, I can just see in the room that, oh, this is what, you know, the light bulb going on. Yes. That this is what it's about. I like reading about how Meryl had like a special connection to Mamma Mia the show that her daughters were all school age at that time. And they had like school friends, like multiple school friends who had lost parents. in the towers or whatever.

And so it was, like, even more so for them, like, Mamma Mia was this sort of, like, salve of a, you know, moment. And it was, like, it was, you know, huge in her house. And also she was, she said at one point in this Vogue piece, she says that mean girls and Romney and Michelle's high school reunion were mainstays in her house with her daughters. And so that's how she broke the ice with Amanda Seiford. She was just like, you are so famous in my house because of mean girls, which is sort of cool. And now you think about, like, you know, Mamie and Grace and Louisa or whatever, we're all watching mean girls.

And I think Romeo and Michelle even speaks even better for them as a family. Like, that to me, that's taste right there. Oh, yeah, that's taste. That's taste. But so, like, when Merrill's, you know, agent or whatever came to her with, like, the stack of offers that she was probably, like, reaping in after Devil Wears Prada or whatever. And they were like, Mama Mia, we'll say no to them. And she's like, no, I want to do that one. So that's super cool. I don't know. Because it, on the one hand, every, every character of a certain age was getting offered to Merrill, like in that aftermath. This is the, she had just

gotten her 14th Oscar nomination for the devil wears Prada. But even more pertinently, I think, it's that she had gotten nominated for adaptation in 2002 and then Devil Wars Prada in 2006 after this like long stretch of like Merrill can't do comedy or whatever and all of a sudden her two most recent nominations are for comedies and two pretty different comedies at that and in the Devil Wars Prada's case like is a huge hit and so now it's like Merrill's first Like, if she wasn't already, Merrill's first on all of the, like, casting sheets. And... Well, and I do think that the money that Devil Wears Prada made proved Merrill to be a box office draw.

And part of the reason why, like, there's the confidence to put this movie as summer programming. Because both of these movies are counter-programming to superhero movies and do financially incredibly well against those movies. Yes. Nobody even talks about Superman Returns. Is that what Devil Wars Prada opened against was Superman Returns? It sure did. It sure did. That's incredible.

But yeah, and so now, like, right, now Merrill is the engine that is sort of, you know, powering this production. And they were like, yeah, we knew. Sorry, go ahead. Sorry, was she the only option considered for that role? I can't remember that. I should know this. But if you ask the producers, yes, especially once the, they heard that Merrill liked the show.

And I think they had, like, she had, she had said that anecdote about her and the girls before the movie was in production. But the, one of the creators of the musical was, like, once you hear that Merrill Streep is a fan of your show, like, you remember it. So, like, when we came to, like, you know, production to show, from what they say that the folks at Universal were like, well, we have a list. Let's, like, explore the list. And I think it was Philadilloid who was, like, fuck.

your list. Merrill Streep said yes. Like, we're, like, it's, it's Merrill Streep. So I think there were, they talked about, like, Michelle Pfeiffer, although they never really, like, reached out to Michelle Pfeiffer. Yeah, that's the name that has, I've heard, floated around the mind. But I don't think it ever, like, made it as far as, like, getting

to Michelle. So, she wouldn't have done it. She, she says no to everything. She had just done... She had just... Probably not. No, hairspray would have been... Yes, the year before. The year before. the year before. So she probably was maybe even like in production for hairspray when they were like casting or maybe I don't know exactly what the timelines were. And I think Michelle would have brought her own, you know, energy to it in a, you know, in its own sort of particular way. I love Michelle Pfeiffer, of course. But I think Merrill brings, I think Michelle is so polished. And so I think she would have like really like nailed that down. And there is a willingness in.

of Merrill, in this movie especially, to be, again, I say shaggy. Again, I say a little bit, you know, not that she didn't work hard. By all accounts, she, like, worked incredibly hard or whatever, but she's willing to just sort of, like, you know, jump on the bed in her, you know, overalls and whatever and, like, do a imperfect split or whatever. Make dick jokes with power drills. Right, yeah, yeah. Right, exactly.

So she ends up being, again, I think sometimes, and with good reason. we sort of judge musicals by the quality of the singing of the actors. And Mamma Mia is like the shiny example of just like, well, you can't always do that because like that's not really like, certainly that's not why Mamma Mia is beloved, right? And even because they talked about like, we knew Merrill could sing because of she sings in postcards from the edge. And they specifically cited that one. She's, you know, she's sung in like, Death Becomes Her and stuff like that too.

but it's a very different kind of singing. I think, you know, I'm checking out in Postcards from the Edge, has this sort of country twang to it, of course, and like, where something like the winner takes it all, she's belting by the end of that song, you know what I mean? And it's like, is it a perfect belt? Like, no, but by that point... Is she shot well in that scene? No, but she does run away with a scarf trailing behind her, and maybe that's all we need.

The Red Shawl's best-supporting actress for the Red Shawl in that scene. Yeah. But I think you, I think it's, I would be very skeptical of somebody who's like Meryl Streep gives a bad performance in this movie. I can understand if somebody says Merrill Streep is not a good singer in Mamma Mia. I think she has a quality that carries her through. But if you want to say like Merrill Strupe's a bad singer, I'm not going to disagree with you. But like, I don't think you can fairly say that she gives a bad performance. No, there's so many. I mean, I think it's simultaneously a broad performance. Yeah. Because I think that's. Yeah. That's. That's. watching the deal requires. But there's so many, like, little moments, like her looks, especially with her and Amanda Seifrey together, like, that she, I mean, this is, of course, that's why she does, she's fucking Merrill Street, but, like, with little looks and, like, with little, uh, nods and stuff that is like, oh, you're just, like, conveying so much history between the two of you with just, like, that. Yeah, yeah. Casting Amanda Seifred, oh, sorry, go ahead, Chris. Uh, well, it's the same topic. Talk about Amanda. So casting Amanda Seifred, it was definitely a much busier field.

No pun intended, because Busy Phillips is one of the actresses who auditions for Sophie. But like Amy Adams, Brittany Murphy, Evan Rachel Wood, Mandy Moore, Zoe Deschanel, Kirsten Dunst. Leighton Meester, I think, was on that list. Lake those auditions. Yeah, well, yeah, and especially, like, because there's the one snippet, again, go into that vogue oral history, where casting director, Ellen Lewis, tells this story about one woman who, she said, one woman who auditioned was kind of known for singing. Now, she doesn't say who was a singer. So I don't think we're talking about like pop star,

but like a world. It's kind of known as a singer. Kind of known for singing. And she said she came in. This is for Sophie? This is for Sophie. And she came in and she said when she started singing, it was pure torture to the point where she called in this woman's agent, or she said to this one's agent, like, I think you maybe want to come to my office and watch this tape because, like, you kind of need to see what we're talking about. She said, I normally wouldn't do that because I never want to embarrass anybody, but we were all kind of blown away by how bad this young woman was. Who is she talking about? Who? I must know. Kind of known for singing. I need to hear the tone of voice that she says those words. And they, at other points... Because it either means

super famous for singing. Right. It means this person has sung publicly. Right. And they also say in other parts, they mentioned that Mandy Moore audition. So I don't think they're talking about Mandy Moore. But, like, who were, and I don't think it would have been, like, Britney or Christina or any of these people who were, like, pop star. I don't even think it's like Jessica Simpson because I can't imagine Jessica Simpson showing up to an audition with headphones. But I wonder if there was, like, Anna Kendrick's too young, right? Yeah. At this point, by now she's an Oscar nominee the next year.

But would she have been too young? to audition for Sophie. It's not Anna Kendrick. Anna Kendrick's a good enough singer. That's what I think too. But maybe sometimes you just have a bad audition. I don't know. But anyway, I'm fascinated.

I'm going to keep thinking on this. When I land on some... If anyone out there now is just like get in our DMs. If it is Nikki Blonski, I want to hear about it. That would be a take on the material. I kind of want to. if it's a Disney channel person. Very well could be.

Like a Miley? Demi Lovato. How old was Demi Lovato? Or Miley Cyrus? Maybe. Miley Cyrus is not a bad idea, actually. She would be like, she wouldn't be 20 by then. She would have been maybe a little too young for it.

But what is the character younger? Is the character 20? You throw around those names that we already mentioned auditioned for the role. Those are not a lot of, there's not a lot of overlap of people who would be considered for the same role. Like Amanda Seifred being considered. for the same role as Leighton Meester. Maybe I'm thinking of it, like, in today's terms. But all that, to me, says they saw everybody for the role.

What was, who was Boone Cat? Taryn Manning. Maybe it was Taryn Manning. I can picture Taryn Manning with some giant headphones around her neck. I can also, I can also picture Miley with that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, she would have been, like, known for singing.

Yeah, if you've been Ellen Lewis's assistant. for all this time and you feel like just having a chat, like, call us up. Yeah, yeah, let us know. If you worked at Universal and no longer are and are no longer bound by a gag order, call us up. I think whoever said we're casting, even if it's just Philadilloid, whoever said we're casting Amanda Seifred deserves at least like a $2 million raise because like the best decision I think this movie makes is casting. She's wonderful.

Not only just the, I think she's a good singer, but also it's just like she's such a good actress in this movie, like, she knows exactly how to play this role. She's the best performance in the movie. Um, and she is, she's later, a few years later, she's in Le Mise. And she didn't get worse. She's just like, it's just, that movie doesn't know what to do with her. She's playing a shit character. Like, it's perfectly okay in Le Monde. I think she's not bad in Lamed's. Yeah, she. I think that character's such a nothing. I like, yeah, because that nobody's, nobody's like, Stumpin for Cosette. Have you guys seen this video, though, where she, this interview, where she talked about that movie and how horrible she thought she was and how horrible she thought her singing was in that movie.

And it's just like, Sister, you need to give yourself a break because you have always sounded great. She's always come across to me as somebody who was a little reticent to sort of carry herself as a star. And maybe that's like an affectation or whatever, But, like, I told the story before about the one time that I hung out in the green room at the view when I worked at ABC, she was the guest on. And she sat on the far side of the room and had a bag of knitting and knit until it was time for her to go on the show.

Like, she didn't schmooze. She was like, she was seemed very sort of like, and it wasn't like sort of snobby standoffishness. She just seemed like pretty shy. And which was interesting because, like, she had been on all my children. And, like, that talk show filmed in the same building. So, like, she was in decently, like, comfortable environs or whatever. But I think she just sort of, like, you know. Yeah.

And from what I know, she, like, lives on a farm. Yeah. Like, she's not, she has, she grass our animals and her husband and they, their child and her dog. Is she married to somebody famous right now, or is it, is it? She's married to Thomas Adowski. That's right. I always forget that. The newsroom's out.

She is an essential. Instagram follow. Is she? Yeah, she is. I don't like following celebrities on Instagram, but I'll take that. You gotta follow her. I mean, she and Dominic Cooper got together. They did.

They had a-filming this movie. And they were together for like a little bit of time, at least. They were together a while, like for more than a couple of years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they, yeah, obviously. And then he married Ruth Nega after they did that show together, right? After they did preach. Oh, I did not know.

I thought saying. I don't know if they're even, they'd still be married. it's very funny because it's not in the short history but like there's some interview around the second movie where she talks about

how like Thomas would just go visit on set and just sit awkwardly while she and Dominic Cooper would just like reminisce and like Oh that's interesting BL isn't this interesting

and it's like they're obviously in good term but she was like yeah I think my husband did not like being there he was married Dominic Cooper was married

to Ruth Negga from 2010 until 2016 he is currently married to Gemma Chan since 2018. Oh. Absolutely had no idea. Absolutely had no idea. Quite a run. I knew he was married to her during our Oscar nomination.

I mean, he's insanely handsome. He's also two years older than me, which is interesting. He's 47 years old. I will never in my life obviously look as good as that. But like, that's, you know. He's almost 50. Yes. Yes.

You take that look off of your face when you say almost 50, sir. Well, with your newly bald head. I did just shave my head. You look very young. I did just shave my head. We'll see. We'll see how it works. No, I really like it.

Anyway, so they cast Seifred. Seifred was perfect. Again, she's amazing. She is fantastic. They cast all three possible fathers without a lick of concern about whether they could sing or not, which I love. I mean, I think Stell and Scarsgard, you do not really have to sing. He is probably of all of the lead and name characters. Talk about existing on vibes.

Talk about, like, existing on vibes. he exists on vibes more than anybody else in this movie. Because he doesn't have well I guess Colin Firth also doesn't have a solo. Colin Firth has a solo verse on our last summer and I don't think on the last summer. On the stage show he carries more of the way. It's more of a duet between

and Sophie. In the stage show our last summer is a hairy number and there's a one of us in the stage show which is also it's a Donna Harry but it's the Joan Osborne song. So they're singing about that.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. So, yeah, he sings much more. But yeah, and yeah, and Stalin doesn't have... Right. He has those verses in... He takes part in other people's songs, but he doesn't, like, have, like, a song to himself.

And he... In the show, he gets the name of the game, which is a duet with Sophie. Gotcha. Which they filmed, and you can see as a deleted scene, like, on YouTube and stuff. So they shot it for this movie, but they ended up cutting it.

The other thing that I'm interested in when we talk about the stage show is that the only featured nomination that the show got was Judy K for playing Rosie. So obviously in the movie, Christine is the one who gets the standout number

with Did Your Mother Know? And I don't want to, I'll get into it when we talk about our rankings. But Rosie gets, take a chance on me towards the end. And I think it feels like a little bit of an afterthought, like, we've already

gotten the wedding and we've all gotten, and it does feel like a little bit of an afterthought, and I'm curious as to what maybe was different about the Rosie character that would have gotten, beyond the fact that, like, Judy Kay has an incredibly talented. Yeah, Judy Kay has a lot of Tony nomination. That's the story there. Well, it

occurs before the wedding, it's to help give time for costume changes. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. It serves a function. The only, the only song that the movie adds is the toast

when all is set and done which is a weird number because Pierce Brasen doesn't sing it well but they also turn it into a ballad they give him so much to do for somebody who is so demonstrably bad at singing it's very funny I was I was thinking about it how it's also the only song they changed

the temple of and make it a ballad and the original song is so good and I love that song that's what I would say put in Mama 3a. Put that song at the original temple. Well, here we go again, has also already set the precedent that, like, you can reuse songs from the previous movies. Oh, yeah. See, again, you can change the details of these characters' lives. And give me, give me, give me a man after midnight is certainly used in the first one, but it's more of a light motif for most of it. And there's

like a portion of the movie where, like, Sophie's girlfriends sing it, but like, it's not like a number unto itself. It's more like a transitional kind of a thing. And so you could definitely like, you know, judge up that. Talking about Harry's gay awakening in my mammothria, he has the awakening

over Gimmy Gimmy Gimmy and a man after minute. That makes a ton of sense. So, yeah. You could also, if you get the rights to it, which I understand you might not be able to, have it happen at a club where like you go

from Gimmy, Gimmy, Gimmy into Madonna's hung up in a sort of seamless, like transition. No, Madonna is just there. Madonna is in Mammothria. Madonna is, yeah. Talk about do-it-cowards.

She's their sister. She's the aunt. Yeah. Auntie Gloria. Okay, speaking of which, we have to, I'm glad you reminded me of that in a very sideways way. Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks are producers

on this movie. I mean. Rita Wilson, is Rita Wilson? Thank you, Rita Wilson. Is Rita Wilson? Abba doesn't have a country song or she would be in the movie. Is Rita Wilson

canonically greased? or is she just very, like, I love, I'm into Greece as an aesthetic. Are you trying to say that she's the Rachel Dolishol of Greece? She adopted Nia Vardalos and sort of took her culture as her own. And, like, they obviously produced Big Fat Greek wedding and then, like, made it their mission to, like, give Nia Vardalos like a holistic career with, like, everything she was doing. I'm just saying if the Portacolos family does not show up somewhere in Mammothria, we're not doing it, right? So long as Laney Kazan is breathing, she deserves to be in Mamma Thria. So, yes.

She is, right? Who, you ever got us? No, Laini Kazan. Please let me be right about that. I think she is. Lany Kazan is still alive. Okay, thank God. Thank God.

Tom Hanks and Rita, though, it is surprising neither of them. You're giving a lot of weight to Tom Hanks. I think Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks can definitely. saying better than she put a piece of paper she put a piece of paper under tom's nose and was like honey and he's like got it like the in the decision making process

yeah i think tom hanks just nodded along and said yes honey um yeah i agree and she she had all the all the but imagine how much fun she must have had at like the premier party for this like Rita or like at the golden globes party that they had Rita took all of those rap party photos that

We love to obsess about online. Rita is the camera woman of that. It's with a little instimatic, like, right aid, like, instimatic that she... I need an Enterprise and Gary to go and erroneously put that on IMDB trivia. Can anybody make that happen? Can we make this a rumor? Let me start that rumor.

No, there's... I'm sure, I'm maybe, I mean... But I'm pretty sure there are, like, she visited the set. Like, she... Yeah. She wasn't very involved. I think, I'm pretty sure she has a cameoes in the... In the second one?

You know, in the final one... She should have played... Waterloo number. There's like a shot of, like, a bunch of people dressed with Greek gods and goddesses. Oh, is she in that? I wish I would have known to look for it. I'm going to go and check it out afterwards. Because I know Bjorn from Abai's in it.

I did notice... Yes, he shows up multiple times. Well, Benny shows up playing the piano during dancing queen. And Bjorn is pretty... Don't expect me to tell Swedish men apart. I'm insane about this I know, don't worry You know what's also crazy

about those rap party photos They're not on the IMDB photos tab But they should be You know who else You know who else needs to be in Mammothria Tony Colette as Muriel Heslip Who is vacationing Vacationing on that Greek island

And Mia Vasikovska From Bergman Island From Bergman Island From Bergman Island No but specifically Because Muriel's wedding was such a, like, necessary stepping stone to get to Milamia. No, that and, oh, yeah. This book, the audiobook, the 33 and a half, mentions both Muriel's wedding and Priscilla

like, we have the desert as, like, important moment. The Abba, the Abba resurrection, yeah, the Renaissance. Yep, yeah, for sure, for sure. What does Rita say, though? Jorge, you clipped a snippet. It's a, it just sets a lot. it's um here she says she says Rita Wilson

executive producer Tom was filming in London and I remember reading about a musical that used Abba's music it had only been in performances for about three weeks so we gathered our family

and went to see it in the West End about 20 minutes in I had an unmistakable gut feeling that this had to be a movie Tom and I started looking into getting the film rights the very next day the lore

the lore building that Rita Wilson engages Wow Rita bragging you saw Mama Mia at the public. I'm imagining I'm just imagining her as Charlotte

rambling from Dune just like getting this feeling for centuries for centuries we have been making plans on plans Rita Wilson looking Pierce Brosnan in the eye and saying use the voice

used the voice stupid he didn't and he was like I can't no he's saying exactly like like Paula Trades would sing using the voice. Yeah. So when you hear me, darling, yeah.

What else? What else? What else? Before we get into like the sort of the awardsiness of it all, because this movie did have a smattering, I will say, of precursor awards. I mean, we haven't talked enough about. Christine Beranski? Julie Walters and Christine Barrett.

We have it. So they depart their little, you know, boat or whatever. their little fairy that they take to the dock and proceed to in an echo of Sophie and her friends like a few 20 minutes before or whatever have this like old lady cackle like when they get

off the book. Oh, that's the other great quote that I had. Philadelphia Lloyd said when they were talking about the casting and they said we were putting forth these trios of ideas to play Don Natanya and Rosie and I think the studio might have been surprised at the age bracket we headed towards. She

said their reactions felt like well gosh That's a demo we hadn't considered for this, which I think is so funny of a way. They thought they were going to get the teen audience. They thought they were going to be casting like fucking Blake Lively and, you know, whatever. Jennifer Aniston and Anne Hathaway or whatever as Donna and the Dynamo's. But no, like, it's so silly. It really does not speak well of the kinds of people. who get to be executives at major film studios.

How many times in this oral history they talk about universal being like, are you sure? Not these executives at these studios even give a fuck about movies. When they're just like, they don't know shit about movies. When they're just like, Merrill Streep, are you sure? And they're like idiots.

Like, what are you talking about? But I thought that was very funny. They're like, we weren't thinking of that age demographic. It's like, you two-fusses. No, love, I love also. the height disparity between Christine and Julie is used to I think a wonderful sort of effect as well because obviously...

Which is kind of translated from those characters in the stage show because in the stage show, Rosie's also supposed to be overweight too and I'm glad they basically cut that from the show from the movie. Yeah, in the Hollywood Bowl version, I saw Leah Delaria play Rosie. Well, that's tremendous casting, though. I love that. Who played Tanya? Do you remember? Oh, I, let me Google it, but it was Jennifer Nattles played Donna.

Wonderful. Great. Dove Cameron was Sophie. Sure. She was, she was great. Was she good? Yeah, she was very good. Hamish Link later was Harry.

Oh, that's cute. Hi, McAmeel was Sam. Let me see. Corbin Blue from high school musical was Sky. Was Sky. Yeah. But let me Google. Keep going.

Yeah, so, yeah, Baransky is obviously so like... Sorry, Tisha Campbell-Martin was on here. Oh, I love that. That's wonderful cast. Oh, I love that. Tisha Campbell-Martin and Leah Delaria exiting the boat to get to your Greek island. That's wonderful. No, but Baransky is obviously, they talked about it too.

It was the old pro in the cast where they were like, you cannot get injured, you cannot get sick. You have to be here. You are propping up like the bona fides of this movie and such a... You are giving us legitimacy. But apparently she and, like, she and, and, um, and Julie and Merrill got along famously. They were sort of like, you know, joined at the hip throughout most of the, and that, like, and their, Christine and Merrill's friendship has persisted. Like, they didn't really know each other.

They sort of were in, traveled in the same circles, but weren't really, you know, acquainted with each other. Um, Merrill was like, I knew her because, um, Mike Nichols had such a high opinion of her, essentially. And Merrill was obviously very close with Mike Nichols. But Baransky's tremendous in this. Playing, could not be playing more of a stock character. The like the horny, the horny older lady. Like I'm not going to use the, I'm not going to use the C word even though you could. But like, yes. No, that's right. I just did. But she's, she's so good. And obviously, like, her big, you know, number, does your mother know,

it comes off sparklingly, sparklingly. And she had been, like, she had been in Chicago, and she had been in, what was the other musical that they cited that she had been in leading up to this? Because obviously they also said- The legendary line, who's Fred Caseley? Well, right, yes. Yes, it was definitely Chicago was one of them.

I feel like it's, like, one of the most brilliant casting things about Chicago is they're like a character that's canonically in drag, who can we cast. Oh, is that true? Mary Sunshine is usually in drag? Yes. Interesting. Oh, they also cite

how the Grinch stole Christmas, which I think is very funny. Which makes sense, because that's also the lady on the prowl, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, but she, I mean, she'd been in the bird cage, you know. Yes, and sing,

and does, like, a song and dance in the bird cage. And she does a little sort of, in Adam's family values, she's, like, directing the musical in there. So, like, obviously, she's constantly sort of being called upon to reference her musical sort of background. I can't imagine who she plays in Marcy X, but it's possible that she plays a performer of some sort in that film.

I'm pretty sure she's the record executive. Oh, that also makes sense. But she, have you ever seen that movie? No, I've never seen Marcy X. There she, have you seen it, Chris? Yes, but maybe only no. That's another one of those. I didn't realize Paul Rudnick wrote it.

And it's directed by Richard Benjamin. There is a clip that is in content rotation at Gay Guy Video Night and here, courtesy of our friend Michael. When you say here, do you mean like in the house that I live in? I do have to say Michael Swan is the only guy, only gay guy I trust at Gay Guy Video and Music Video Night. Chris is very suspicious of Gay Guy Video Night as an entrepreneur. I am unless Michael Swan is running it. And no, but there's a clip from that movie where basically, Christine Brandtie

listening to a new demo of a song and she just like starts dancing through her house and she does a death drop into a slid from like a second story balcony that is like it's like oh this is what she does like it's insane The casting team on Mamma Mia had seen Marcy X

had seen Marcy X and it's like how high can that let go um that sounded weird but uh and of course Marilyn and Christine would reunite in another musical that was, that is, I will say, slightly less more, less fondly remembered than Mamma Mia, because they're both in Into the Woods. One, yeah, I love, there's an interview that Christine Berensky gave into the woods about how she, Christine Bransky and Tracy Allman would just go out drinking in London after, like,

while filming into the woods, and how they would stay until 3 a.m. And the waiters had to be like, ladies, you have to leave. and it's incredible. I love it. I love it. What a wonderful. The audacity to kick Christine Baranski out of your establishment. Fuck you. Well, and now, of course, Christine has Louisa as a, you know, co-worker.

Oh, that is true. God, I didn't even think about it in that concept, but yes, you're totally right. Who else have we? Oh, yeah, I have her here. Sorry, in the ladies who are. Oh my God, of course, Meryl and Audra and Christine. From that Sondheim birthday Zoom that was genuinely, when people talk about, like, the things we did to entertain ourselves during COVID, that's always the first thing I think of. Because what an unwell night that was.

And yet it turned up to be wonderfully touching and beautiful, actually. Like, it's one of those things where it's just like, we had to make do. And the stream, like, froze on poor Rol Sparza to start. And it was like, it was so. It was so problematic on a technical level, but it turned out to be so lovely, and I was very, very glad that it happened. Very comforting that famous rich people were also going through it in those times. Oh, you've seen the Imagine video. Famous rich people were going through it. There's famous rich people were also going through it complimentary, and there's famous rich people are also going through it.

Well, I also feel like, famous rich people were going through it in the Imagine video to the extent of, like, nobody was making good decisions. then. Like, nobody was... Also, I'm sorry, we forget that the Imagine music video happened 20 days. I was going to say, it was still March, I think. Yes. Yeah, it was still March. It was insane. I need to ask Louis Pitesman if I'm allowed to be on

the Chasing Amy Adams episode for the Imagine video. Because that's the biggest bummer about the Imagine video is that... The people that you like are in it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said, everybody's minds were in a state of... do this right as we're recording. I'm texting

Lewis right now. Yeah, I want to get an answer. In 20 years, we'll get an oral history of the imagination. Oh, my God. No, the way that, like, the world is accelerating, like, we're all, it's just tighter and tighter spirals around the globe. So, like, we're going to get it by December, I feel like, or something like that.

I know I said it before, but, like, I just need to say it again. Colin Firth is an absolute goddamn delight in this movie. Harry ends up hooking up with a stone cold haughty, and I don't know. I think it's super wonderful. Who I've actually met.

He's a film director. Oh, no kidding. What's his name? How fabulous. Juan Pablo DiPachi. He's an Argentinian guy. Yeah, he directed, do you know, this film called the Matachin family who did the film, the queer festivals a few years ago?

Oh, that title is familiar to me, I feel like. Yeah, with like Zachary Quinto. And, yeah, he's a filmmaker now. Nice. And he had a film last year. one of the festival type program, and he's lovely. He also has a, he made a film in, what year was this, 2020, speaking of, with Andy McDowell for Paramount, looks like for Paramount Plus, called Dashing in December, that I believe I made Chris

review for prime time. You did make me too. I was going to say, didn't you review that? Yes, so you've seen this guy, Juan Pablo DePas. You made me write about all of those gay Christmas movies for. Hallmark Channel, and they were all dog shows. Yes. Well, there we have it. Yes. Are we ready?

Are we in an emotionally solid place to rank our five favorite musical numbers from Mamma Mia? Yes. From the movie. It's so hard. The top of my list is very easy. Like, four and five was where I really had I struggled with, do I, like, you know, take a chance, no pun intended, on something that's, like, less polished, but maybe more fun.

But my numbers one, two, my numbers one and two are rock solid. I don't know about the two of you guys. My one is solid. All right. Who wants to go first? Chris, you're at the top. As I look at my Zoom, Chris is at the top of my tower, so you go first. Okay, um I think My number one is Super Trooper Sorry

I mean like I feel like I'm already defaulting to like What is closer to the top of my like favorite Abbasongs period But like Super Trooper I think also Super Trooper Catches is like this distillation of the vibe Of the movie it's like this meta moment of like Everyone's playing dresser up um but also like it's a core reminder that like the the emotional a plot of this movie is the

mother daughter's story yes yeah um just by the final beat of that song uh my number two is amanda cypher doing thank you for the music and the credits she's her voice is just so beautiful um it's such a beautiful rendition oh my god i feel so strongly about her vocals that it's like to to not have one of her songs towards the top is just wrong. I'd say, does your mother know? I'll put that at my number three because I feel like you're both going to put it as your number one

so I can give it some space. Number four, again, I'm just leaning into my favorite Abba songs, but our last summer, I actually think Colin Perth sounds beautiful in this number, and that's probably, at least at the moment, my favorite Aba song,

these things are always evolving and changing. You know what really hits? listening to our last summer walking through Paris. Oh, my God. All right. All right. That sounds crazy. Ending this Zoom right now.

Look, I've been to Paris. Why would you do that to yourself? Are you just like sobbing in the streets of Paris? Yeah. That's part of the experience, I imagine, of being in Paris. It was my 30th birthday trip that I got myself a trip to Europe. Nice. And it was a lot of crying in the street.

You know, it was great. During the day I was crying to. to our last summer and at nice I just walked through these beautiful empty cities listening to Jesse Wears remember where you are. Also, you know, it's also classic gay guy behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And number five, even though like this is not anywhere near my favorite Abba songs, I'll just say Dancing Queen because I feel like we're not going to say Dancing Queen, but like the energy of that number, I think, like, the way that it's staged, what is the business that's happening in that number, I think. I think that is what Dancing Queen does to people, and that's why it's kind of a perfect movie musical.

I understand why Dancing Queen is where it is in the show, but it is kind of amusing to me that Dancing Queen in a movie with a wedding and a wedding reception does not take place at the wedding reception because Dancing Queen is a canonical wedding reception song. And a Bachelorette party. Also that, but like I have heard Dancing Queen at maybe every wedding I've ever been to. So, complimentary. like yes um all right horay what are your five um i want to give some shout out to some number that didn't make the card all right um honorable mentions yep honorable mentions to waterloo because again that that is of course the aba song and um i think that captures they like get up in your seats and dance through the aisles energy of the yeah is that how it was utilized in

the stage show as well it's like it's that's the one at the the end where everybody dances. It's an encore. Yeah. And you can tell everyone was just plastered by when they were shooting that song. Yeah. I actually love the rendition of Chiki T-top in this. So that's my other honorable mention. My other favorite Abba song. That is, yeah, top three Abba for me. Not included in the soundtrack, so there's not an official recording of that. But I like it. number five I love slipping through my fingers

I think that that song is like the emotional core of the movie My sister and I went to see this movie with our mom And our mom like cried all the way through slipping through my fingers I think that That ties a lot of the performances together And like the heart of the movie is in that And I also think it's a beautiful like song

It's like It's very awby and how it's written and how it sounds. Yeah. Dancing Queen is my number four. I love the Pied Piper energy of it, of all, you know, these women just letting go of patriarchy and going to the docks and dance. Yeah. Super Super My number three.

I know this choreography. I've performed this choreography with friends. Nice. It's lovely. Super Super Super from the new version. is my, it's preferable for me just because that is the same multiverse number, but, you know. Yes.

I mean, if we were doing the Mamma Mia universe, I think my top five would be all Lily James. Like, yeah. Just putting that out there. Um, my number two is Vulevue. I love that number. I think that's when the movie feels most like, oh, this is a musical, you know, the choreography, the, the,

uh, that is very much like, oh, this is where act one ends in the show, right? like the emotional climax. It has story and dancing and a great song. And, yeah, the mother knows my number one. It's like it's, it's gay guy brain. It's,

you know. It's very gay guy brain. Yes, totally. It's ribald, like she has the moment where she's like her, she's out of frame and you think she's, you know,

giving him a beach, but she's tying him a nappy. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's, um, it replenishes my electrolytes every time Christine

Branttie does that high kick. it's she's goals you know having and then it ends with her like being like let's go girls and she's just like she walks off with all that it's so good but again there are there are few like numbers that I like dislike yeah yeah no agreed like we're we're we're picking from faves um SOS is maybe the one that I would not choose to listen to even though I like SOS as a song um I also have a handful of runners up Waterloo I think for the same reason I wouldn't rank Waterloo top five because there's

it's just performed over the end credits there's no like second staging to it so like it's a little bit more limited if we're in a live show there's that element to it but what else

money money I think is really fun and well done Super Trooper again I like the one in here we go again so much more than like that's why I'm not going to rank it here but my

Number five is Chiquitita. I sort of like, I hemmed and hawed, but I think it's really lovely. And it's, I don't know, I like the bond between those three characters, and it's really kind of, it's, it, you know, it tells you a lot about the bond of those, those three women. Number four, Dancing Queen for all the reasons that Jorge said, it's, you know, it's very, I also like the fact that it just sort of like it becomes this, uh, Dionysian sort of, you know, people falling under the thrall of Mamma Mia as, you know, as we sort of move along. Plus again, top wedding song of all time. Number three, I had our last summer because I do agree, like Colin Farrell or Colin Farrell. Colin Firth sounds so sweet and so lovely in that. Plus, I like the little, like silly little flashbacky touches that they throw into that.

number two does your mother know for you know all of the gay guy reasons that already gave and then my number one is vulevu by like kind of by a mile it's such a good number it's by far the best directed number in the movie it is the moment where I think all of the promise of mamma mia like really really like comes together the best it is you know there's a degree of difficulty to it um the whole idea of like this the stag party boys like climbing the walls and their masks to like take over the hen party and all of the like all of that storyline crashing together um it's wonderful it's great and it's a ton of dancing and it's a ton of like you know there's dancing there's lights there's camera swirls there's story like what else do you want plus i like that song i think that song is a banger so um yeah number one valet vu Abba's best album. Where does that album come in the in the in the in the chronology of the

album that is their all second to last is late 70s. It's their pure most purely disco I was going to say it's where like really like disco but it's one of the few aba like proper albums that for me has no skips. Yeah it's like banger and banger bangers that's where you get angelized that's That's where you get Chiquitita. That's where you get Summer Night City. If it wasn't for the night, it's, gimme, gimme, gimme. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. What's, what's our, uh, fuck, Mary kill situation on Sam Bill or Harry? Oh, as characters. Sure. Or as just like male figures on screen. I'm very, I think it's, I, to me, I think it's pretty academic. I think it is, uh, fuck Bill. kill Sam marry Harry

Absolutely You can even marry Harry Or mess around with Stell and Scarsgar Wait, repeat that? What did you say? I said I'm fucking Bill Stellan Scarsguard I am marrying Colin Firth's

Harry and I am Not with any malice But like killing Pierce Brosnan and Sam Okay I'm definitely a marry Harry for sure And the other two I could You could flip flop So to speak

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so to speak. So to speak, yeah. You don't want someone cooking you eggs with their ass out. Let's not go that far. Do not threaten me with a good time. You don't know my breakfast situation. But I think that would change if I would take the younger version into account. I was literally about to say this.

That is not the case for, here we go again, situation. Yeah, young bill is. I would probably kale young. Harry. Young Harry is George Mackay? Is it? Well, none of them are George McCai. I thought George Mackay was in that movie for some reason. No, no, no. It's Jeremy Irvine is young Sam. Hugh Skinner is young Harry and some Swedish guy is Young Bill. The hottest one. I love that Jeremy Irvine also is the worst singer of Here We Go again. Well, they had consistency. No, yeah. They That is like the one thing that unites the timeline.

I don't know why Hugh Skinner face blinded his way into looking like George McKay in my memory. But yeah, no, that is who young hair was. Yes. Josh Dillon is the... Oh, maybe he's not Swedish. He's not. He's English. Oh, okay.

Well, there you go. Hello, governor. Okay, so a couple other things I wanted to mention before we get into the awards. Jorge, you wanted to bring up the Beyonce Hugh Jackman number from that year's Oscars. I sure did. Let me just crack my knuckle.

No, that for me is just so tied with... I mean, I think this is a good segue, I guess, to the awards because it ties them. But yeah, this is the Hugh Jackman hosted Oscars. I think he's one of the strongest hosts in the new era. Underrated.

Somehow underrated, even though Every time anybody talks about him But he was really great Those Oscars just like Made such a huge impact on me as a viewer Yeah But yeah So like in the middle of it

He opens He says like Change has finally come And you know It's like Obama had just got inaugurated Which is crazy to think about In timeline wise Yeah

But he's like yeah We thought we'd never see this day Change has finally arrived And he's like Mama Mia's has sold more tickets than Titanic in the UK. So, and then this, the musical is back number, uh, starts. And it's this delightful, delightful medley of old and new musicals up until then, um, that he

things, Beyonce joins at one point. Uh, they start singing like Top Hat, which is the first, uh, musical, I think this is the official official musical ever made. Um, and yeah, they, they, go through Greece. They go through West Side Story, Chicago, Dreamgirls. At one point, Amanda Seafrid and Dammit Cooper

join in alongside, yes, you guessed it, Vanessa Hodgson Sackettron. Because that year... High School Musical 3 hit theater. Because that year, it was High School Musical 3 was about to come out of theater, or had just come out. The first high school musical to be a theatrical. So there's a lot of whiplash

because they go from, you know, Tony, not Tony, Hugh Jackman singing Maria from with his story to Sack Ephron singing High School Musical 3 so you know there's a lot of low brow high brow going on but you know

they're in these just like sequenced tuxitos it was put on by Bass Lerman he credits Bass Lerman at the end for like choreographing it and like basically envisioning it um Beyonce does sing Mama Me at one point

with like a full like marching band behind that And it's just, it's such a fever dream, and it's just like what every musical number in a war show should be like, because it's completely earnest. It's paying, like, homage to this genre. Clips from, like, various musicals are playing in the background as it goes. It's, like, a good representation of old and new. It's, I don't know. I was still telling you all before recording.

I found a way to download it. I don't know how into my iPhone that only held, like, 3. three like like three videos and I just like watched it and I still the other day I was like trying to see while I was in the shower like do I still remember and I could just recite the entire that's perfect and it's it's I don't know and it's I don't know and I think that as we go through like the the white this had award and like the money that it made like it had a presence in the Oscars right like they could not ignore the fact that this is a huge hit yeah musical like impacted, like Hugh Jackman jokes

with, you know, Merrill, like, you know, I can't wait for Doubt the musical, right? Yes, right, that's the thing, is Merrill is nominated that year for doubt because, of course, she is because Doubt is the other Broadway transfer that year that, like, hugely anticipated, but it, of course,

is, you know, it's dramatic and it is heavy with themes and it's, you know, directed to within an inch of his life, two movies that are not directed particularly well by people who, were responsible Had a hand in the stage production.

I do have to say when I rewatch this movie and I'm going through the letterbox logs and I keep seeing Meryl nominated for the wrong movie in 2008 Meryl nominated for the wrong movie in 2008 and I'm like, gay guy response, gay guy response, gay guy response.

Not even internalizing they're talking about doubt. And as like I'm logging into my computer to get into this recording I pull up Meryl, and I'm like, oh, doubt was in 08. That's maybe not a gay guy response. I maybe earnestly think she's actually better in this than she is in doubt.

It's tough to say. I think doubt has its problems. I've never been one to sort of, because I think a lot of times there is a temptation to be like, well, I got to say Meryl's bad in something. And so I think a lot of people bring up August S.H. County and a lot of people bring up doubt. I think she's good in both of those movies. I just think. I think she's good in. doubt, but I think, I mean, she's not the problem here. I think it's poorly directed, but

like, she transcends poor direction. I also think, though, I think part of it is that I didn't see either one of those shows on stage, so I have no internal Cherry Jones or Deanna Dunnigan in my head for her to show. We all have an internal Cherry. That's why we all have complicated feelings about Cynthia McSin. And maybe I feel that way, because I did see Cherry Jones in that show and yeah i haven't rewatched doubt since back then so i've seen certain scenes i remember loving amy adams in it she gives the finger with a crucifix she gives the finger with a crucifix she says i will wield my judgment like god's hammer or whatever the hell she says um but yeah so obviously doubt was going to fare better at the oscars i often wonder if if the machinations of the voting

The Kate Winslet vote split had gone another way, and she just gets nominated for the reader in supporting rather than the reader in lead, which would have meant that people just didn't vote for her in Revolutionary Road because they figured she was going to get a nomination for the reader and supporting, which is definitely not how it worked out. Merrill probably wins them Best Actress that year. And that's a mirror universe that I don't often, because usually we think of Merrill gets the Oscar at the expense of Viola Davis when she wins for Iron Lady in 2011. And in that case, it would be Merrill winning in 2008, clearing the way for Viola Davis to win in 2011, which I just think is interesting. Anyway. Well, this is the thing about Merrill's third Oscar.

She wins her third Oscar after being conceivably second place a lot. Three times, four times. Definitely second place for Adaptation. Definitely second place, I think, for Devil Wars Prada. Definitely second place for doubt. And definitely second place for Julian Julia. I think you could maybe make an argument that she wasn't second place for Devil Wars Prada, but I think that's gay guy brain at work with me, where I'm like, well, obviously, she's in second place.

I suppose you could say that, like, who would be second place? any of those women. I think it was such a close race. I think you could have made an argument that it's a distant second place no matter who it is. So it's like everyone in second place. I think you could say that Penelope was second. I think you could maybe say that Judy was second or that Kate was second. But I think I, my guess is it's probably Merrill. Yeah. So the golden. So I just got to mention Merrill's third Oscar, Philadelphia Lloyd. Yeah. Also, a movie that is not directed. She does not know where the camera is. And she has not directed anything. Has she directed anything for the stage? No, she did. This Amazon movie called herself about a relocation of women in domestic abuse. And it's actually a good movie.

Is it a documentary? No, no, it's a, it's a fictional film. It is actually pretty good and it's, would you believe, if I tell you, it's shot well. Well, good. Oh, that's good. Okay. So, Merrill is nominated for Mama Mia. at the Golden Globes that year she's nominated.

And the Golden Globes do like to give a double nomination. So they nominated her in drama and in comedy. So that is the year that Sally Hawkins somewhat miraculously wins for Happy Go Lucky. I imagine Sally was, I remember Sally was seen as a surprise. I guess people thought Merrill might just win in comedy because she was going to lose to Kate in drama or something. because, like, I don't know exactly who else of the nominees. Sally Hawkins definitely seemed surprised to win. She was definitely surprised.

And also, she was seated at the very back of the Beverly Hilton, nearly in the parking lot. Like, that's the longest walk to the stage I've ever seen at the Golden Globes. Nominated also were Francis McDormann for Burn After Reading. We've done an episode on that. Emma Thompson for Last Chance Harvey, we'll probably do an episode on that. And Rebecca Hall for Vicki Christina Barcelona, who is obviously not nominated for that, but I think she gives decidedly the second best performance in Vicki Christina Barcelona, which is no shade because Penelope Cruz is like a house on fire in that movie.

But Rebecca Hall is quite, quite good in that. Becca Hall rules. She does. That is, I'm trying to think of like if anything else notable happened at that Golden Globes, but I'm not entirely sure. Sally, certainly when she won that Golden Globe, I remember being like, oh, good, she's going to get the Oscar not. Oh, thank goodness. And she ends up not getting it. I can't remember whether it was Angelina Jolie and

Changeling or Melissa Leo and Frozen River who was seen as like the one who took her spot. Probably Angelina, because Frozen River also gets that screenplay nomination. Plus people thought Frozen River was a pretty good movie, and most people did not think Changeling was a very good movie. Right, right. Sally Hawkins, the first to not get a Best Actress nomination after winning the major critics organizations because she won

New York, L.A. and National Society. Is that true? Oh, wow. Wow. If I'm remembering correctly, because whatever the stat is, who's the next one to miss out on an Oscar nomination from it? Mary and John Bettees. Sure. Wow. Mike Lee, you have a talent. You have a talent.

So we mentioned the original stage production, went from 2001 to 2015. Again, lost all the major three of its five nominations that lost to Thoroughly Modern Millie, including actress in a musical to Sutton Foster, featured actress to Harriet Sansom

Harris, and then Thoroughly Modern Millie won Best Musical. And you know what? Those wins were deserved. They were very deserved. Everything. I mean, I only know of it from watching... Talk about gay guy music video night, Sutton Foster on the Rosie O'Donnell show doing Gimmie Gimmie, which I've watched so many times

in so many content. I mean, yeah, I've watched the Tony's of, you know, forget about the Oh, my God. Incredible. Incredible. Okay. Yeah, no, but you were right what you said previously about how it's not like a, like, I don't think I could tell you who the original cast. I don't think, you know, a theater gaze, it's not like, it's a show that doesn't exist. Yes. By its performers, right? Right. Right. Nobody remembers Louise Pietra as, uh, as Donna, certainly. Yeah. I mean, I think the, the memorable stage Donna for everybody now is Carole Carmel. Because her winner takes it all just, like, blows the fucking roof off of the... I've never seen it.

I'll have to go check it out. Ooh, baby. I'm going to be sending it to you as soon as we're off of here. Okay, if y'all could cast, like, a Donna today. Oh. Like, who do you think? I mean... Is Mary Testa too old to play Donna?

Probably. See, a lot of the people I'm thinking of... I'm like, well, they're too young to play. I was Milligan I was going to Tracy Ellis Ross

Oh that's interesting Like that's Like That's an interesting I think she has the energy Yeah Yeah yeah yeah

Yeah I think that would be fun I think that would be super fun I love that I love that And then in the stage version of Mamma Mia Here we go again

Diana Ross can play Rosie And Or not Rosie Ruby Ruby Ruby Ruby Ruby

Oh, yeah. Yes. Ooh, maybe it's just that we're like 15, 20 years away from Kiki Palmer, Donna. Well, period. Just what we need is a Kiki Palmer movie musical. Well, yes. Because she is too old for a Sophie, so it's, yeah. Yeah.

She could, I guess. No, she's too old, yeah, for sure. No, now my mind is spinning. Now that's thoughts of Mamma Mia 3 are spinning in my head. As they are. Who were not going to cast. in any Mamma Mia iteration is Chris Klein. Okay, thank you for bringing it up, yes.

I made, I forced Chris. I had never seen this. Chris had never seen it. Like, as we're getting ready to press play or press record on this recording. Chris Klein. It's upsetting even if you don't have the audio up. Like, you turn the sound off and it's still upsetting. Chris Klein, allegedly, having just blown like four different rails on the way into that edition, allegedly, allegedly.

Um, comes in, couldn't blink if he wanted to, like, is just his, his eyeballs are that, like, uh, open. Um, starts- The vibe is, come in my van. The vibe is, hey, are you a size 14? Starts off, the vibe is, starts off being so enthusiastic about Mandy Moore. He starts off just being like, I heard you're auditioning Mandy Moore. You gotta cast her. I was an American dreams with her. She's an angel on earth. Oh, blah. And then proceed. to attack lay all your love on me with the ferocity of a

John Wayne Gasey. A frat boy pounding, just pounding beers, just like just crushing the cans against his head or whatever after. He's so he's just attacking the song and it's not good.

And then like when it the high notes are just defeating him and he's really trying. And so this thing leaked about a couple of years after Mamma Mia happened. And it's one of those things where you feel so bad. And you hear people talk about like, this is such a betrayal, like the sacredness of like these auditions that like people should be free to like fail in those things and not be subject to ridicule. And so you feel so bad for him. Well, at the same time, it is a car wreck that you cannot look away from. And it is one of those things like I'm not going to like maybe put it on blast for everybody but I am going to

every chance I get be like have you seen the Chris Klein? I don't think it's his great shame. I think it's kind of the casting department's great shame because maybe maybe maybe the prerequisite is can you sing and if they can't say yes. Clearly wasn't a prerequisite. Yes. It is the shame of the casting department not his shame. Well, he should not have been auditioning for it, is the situation. Well, and he proved that correct. This didn't get a ton of precursor attention, but it did, of course, get a handful of nominations from our fave. Of course, the AARP Movies for Grownups Awards ate up Mamma Mia, as they should have.

It didn't win anything, though. No, it did. Christine Beranski and Julie Walters get a tandem win for Best Supporting Actress, which I find that to be. So fucking radical. Isn't that wild? Isn't that fun? AARP, you used to be so much cooler than you are. I'm not saying that you're totally like not cool anymore, but like you're inching,

you're inching towards boring territory. I'm going to say that. Maybe I'm going to say that. I'm within my rights to say that, right? Their nominations have gotten a little less fun. This is the M4Gs we get when the three of us host the M4GES. We're like, who's the winner? Especially because they also nominate the movie for this vaguely like break.

A breakaway accomplishment. We're like, I don't know what you mean by that, but like, that's cool. They nominate- And you know what? They were right to do so. It was a breakaway accomplishment. They nominate Pierce Brosnan, God bless his soul, for supporting actor, and he loses, I would say rightly so, to Bill Irwin and Rachel getting married, who was so wonderful in that movie. An Oscar nomination that should have had. And another stage star, you know what I mean? Rachel getting married should have had so many supporting nominations. Like, the fact that it got none. But, like, Erwin should have been nominated. Rosemary DeWitt was outright robbed of a nomination. I also think Deborah Winger would have been a rad nomination.

And fuck it. Throw in Anna Devere Smith, too. Like, she's not in it much. The actress who says, I prayed for you, Rachel. She's amazing. It is great. Everybody in that movie's great. I should watch that movie again.

And then our maybe favorite award, Best Grown Up Love Story, which it loses to Last Chance Harvey, which I suppose, I suppose, if you're going to, like, say that the grown-up love story in Mamma Mia is Merrill Streep and Pierce Brosnan, fine. But if you are accurate and say that the grown-up love story in Mamma Mia is Merrill Streep, Christine Beransky, and Julie Walters, then they should have won. You can fill a category with love stories from Mamma Mia, but I think the correct winner is a mother and her daughter. Well, there you go. Here's the other thing I want to mention. This was a Grammy nominee for Best Compilation

Soundtrack. And I believe that when the Grammys award compilation soundtrack, it goes to, like, whatever, like the producer, but I think it also goes to, like, all of the artists who are on there. So what this means... That's why so many Tony people have

Grammys, because... So what this means is, by giving that award to Juno and all their tweed little, like, strummy, little songs, whatever, no shade I like Juno. Instead of Mamma Mia. Does Michael Serra have a Grammy? It means that Merrill Streep could have been, for the last 17 years, a Tony Award away from an EGOT, and we were robbed of that reality by that Grammys.

Would it have been so hard to give a Grammy to Mama Mia just so that for the last 17 years, we could have been like, cast Merrill in this thing on stage just so you can get an EGOT. You know Scott Ruden would have screamed his way into getting her a Tony somehow. If Scott Ruden's going to be good for anything, and many would argue that he's. not, but it would have been to muscle his way to a Tony Award for Merrill Streep, for sure, for sure. Also, it's crazy that, and because

I don't know who the credits of the nomination went to, but I assume I don't know, the fact that the Mamma Mia soundtrack had a Grammy nomination before Abba ever did. That's right, because their first Grammy nomination didn't come until like five years ago or whatever.

Voyage. Under Voyage, yeah. Yeah. Well, because it's because they got nominated in two different years for the same. Yes. Because the Grammys are so deeply strange. Yeah. So they got nominated for a song and then the next year for the album and another song. Right.

Voyage is a good album. Voyage is a good album. It's not like some bullshity, like, we never gave it to you, so we'll give it to you for this. Keep an eye on Dan, a great song about shared custody of a child. It's so good. You could really turn that into a song for a movie for Mamma Thria. Yeah, no, it's, well, and that's something, and I was talking about awards, it kind of blows my mind that neither for this one nor for here we go again, that they didn't write a new song for the stage version. Well, they all hate each other.

Like, they sat on those voyage songs for forever. That's what I thought. I thought that those songs had been, like, around for a while. they i mean it's it's never been a fleet with mac situation right it's it's it's not that they they're just like scandinavian right they're just like frosty to each other and they're just like indifferent more than they are actively um they all live on separate distinct islands and they can't they don't care to hop on a ferry yeah yeah well but we know the girls like the girls don't want anything to do the girl just kind of won the paycheck and like good for them yeah because like one of them

married to royalty the other one is like you know it's it's it's they're good. The, Benny and Bjorn are still, like, collaborating. They're still, like, actively creative partners. So, like, even if the girls weren't there, the fact that they, too, could not write a new song for the movie, either of the movies, where it could have easily, like, that could have gotten a best original song campaign, right? Like, who wouldn't want to give these two guys an Oscar? Like, that's a narrative that fucking writes itself. I'm sure there was some executive somewhere where it's like no one wants to hear the original song when they sit down to see Mamma Mia.

You know, they want to hear the songs they already know. You know, I would never give up, like, Amanda Sefer's, thank you for the meeting for anything, but, like, you can throw an original song there, right? It's like a credit song. So, yeah, I'm still, uh, it's kind of a loss because I would love for them to get an Oscar campaign. Yeah, oh my God, that would be so much fun. Are you kidding me? Yeah.

Also, like, there is a universe in which you could, like, biopic the Abba story, right? O'bate. Joe, if you think I have not thought that, you are... Somewhere, there are four white actors waiting for their first Oscar nominations, and it's for the ABBA biopic. And, yep, I have a concept, so... Fantastic. You know, I knew I could count on you. The last of the precursor awards I want to mention, we bring up every once in a while. Usually when we need, like, a ballast. Usually when we need, like, other awards to fill out of slate. The Alliance of Women Film Journalists, and we sometimes sort of poke fun at them

because they can sometimes come across a little humorless, case in point, nominating Mamma Mia for a movie you wanted to love, but just couldn't, which it tied for the victory with the women, which I think is so rude because that remake of the women is genuinely terrible. And Mamma Mia is so much fun, and that remake of the women is definitely, like, has so many opportunities to be fun, and it is not. I want to do an episode on it. I do, too. One million percent do I want to do an episode on it. It's one of my

favorite Cinematrix option. The women. Whenever you want to use Eva Mendez, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a got-to. Perfect. And then it also nominated it for actress defying age and ageism for Merrill Streep, which is

very nice, of course. But I also think it's kind of funny because like... Is it? That sounds condescending. It does sound a little condescending. It does sound a little It always sounds condescending. It's true. And it's also like, Merrill... It's well intended, but it always sounds content. But Merrill Streep is maybe the one actress who, like, doesn't have to contend with

ageism or at least as much. Like, case in point in getting cast in this movie, where Universal was like, really? And everybody else was like, yes, really, end of conversation. Like, it's Merrill Streep. Yeah. But then she loses, too, which I think is so funny. I love the idea that Merrill Streep for Mamma Mia is up against Catherine Deneuve in a Christmas tale, and she loses to Catherine Deneuve.

a Christmas tale. Sometimes awards are very silly and very funny. And the Alliance of Women Film Journalists, you know what? I guess everybody needs a scold, and they will fill that void again and again and again. So anything else. There is another award that this movie actually won. Oh, hit me. Hit me.

I know we don't like to bring them up, but Pierce Brothen did win a Razzie for a way. totally overlooked that those dicks I've become so like doing a Demi more podcast I've become even more militantly anti-Razi

they were over the course of her career such giant fucking dicks to her like even when she like came back for Charlie's Angels full throttle

they like nominated her for a Razzie for that and I'm like fuck you first of all because she's perfect in that movie so who did he

did he win or did he won he sure it's fuck one. He was nominated against um, oh, I Burt Reynolds in two movies it looks like, in deal and in the name of the king, a dungeon siege tale.

Oh, that's a Ova Bowl. Well, Ova Bull was nominated for a different movie for a movie called Postal, where he played himself. So Ova Bowl was definitely the pinata of this particular Razzis. And then Ben Kingsley and Vern Troyer are both nominated. for the love guru, although Ben Kingsley is also nominated in tandem with War Inc. and

the Wackness. Does everybody remember the Wackness? Jonathan Levine's the Wackness that had like Sundance Buzz, and then people saw it, and they were like, no. I don't think it's even a bad movie, but I remember people being like, Olivia Thurlby is going to break out in a major way from the Wackness, and I was like, I don't know about that. I remember War Inc. as a Hillary Duff vehicle. I've never seen War Inc.

at all ever. John Cusack, Marissa Tomey, Hillary Duff, wow. John and Joan Cusack in this economy? That sounds like Ben Kingsley was just in another movie that they decided to throw on the pie. John Cusack, Hillary Duff, Marissa Tomey, Joan Cusack, Dan Aykroyd and Ben Kingsley. Here's the indifference with which the people who made War Inc. have towards, like, their audience, their whatever is. they have people above the title on their poster who are not even in the line-up of names of people in the pictures. They have...

John Cusick also wrote it. Co-wrote it. You know what? I'm not sure that's going to make me even more likely to watch it. Montel Williams is credited as GuideStar Voice. Guys, get your shit together with these IMDB character lists, honestly. Anyway, Vern Troyer is nominated for The Love Guru, and that's it. But yes, thank you for bringing that up, Jorge.

It's good that we ridicule them. Is there anything else? The only note that we haven't gotten to that I wrote down is the dock choreography for Lay All Your Love on me, when the men come out in their flippers and they do their little marching dance onto the dock. is that not the choreography that they stole for the choice of on music video where all the boys are dancing in a line? Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. Thank you. Is that not gay guys lining up to comment on, I don't know, the W great performances covers? Is that not gay guys lining up to comment on that week's episode of Rupal? No, that is true, is that not gay guys lining up to comment on new pop.

girlie, you've never heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just marching in flibbers. A Lord's new album. Yeah, it's very true. On Tate McRae. Yeah, some quasi-talented woman has a new pop album. The gay guy's marching to comment on it, yeah.

My final Mamma Mia notes, I pulled open my actual notes. Making your wedding guest climb all those stairs and not even having refreshments. Root on at the top of the mat. I, I did think several times, like, what if I was a guest at this? wedding um a very expensive destination wedding very yes um that didn't even end up happening right um but i was like would i be angry that didn't happen or it actually is the great tea that uh like when i get back like do you would not believe you did end up in a threesome with colin firth i just you ended up in a call in a threesome with colin firth in his in his boy choice and yeah this man

and it's like three men showed up to the aisle you will not believe what like I would do like a Zola-style, like, sweet-ray. Like, you will not believe. It's long, but it's got a cool ending. It's long, but it's got, yeah. It's full of suspense. The old goat house sounds like the island's only gay bar. And then someone says,

unprompted and with a complete straight face, Harry's talk Tanya into water sports. They do say that in that movie. Listen, Harry and Tanya are going to be kikiing for many, many years to come. At the old goat house. At the old goat house. Jorge, final thoughts on Mamma Mia before you moved to the IMDB game. No, I didn't even take notes because I'm like, I'll just let this wash over me.

I'm sure I, you know, it's when those, when method actors are like, I just, the learning is inside me and it will just like, I'll just let it pour out of it. I love it. So no, this, I think I talked about, I mean, I could talk about this for, oh. Jorge, next time you and I see. other. I'm forcing you to take me to a musical Monday somewhere and we're going to demand multiple mama video. So, yeah, yeah, all right, very good. All right, Chris, do you want to explain to our listeners how the IMDB game works? All right, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor act, just to try to guess the top

four titles that IMDB says they're most known for. If any of these titles are television, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that at front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release yours as a clue, and if that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. All right, Jorge... A mama-free-for-all of hints.

A mama-fri-a-for-all, yes. Jorge, as our valued guest, you are here to decide whether you want to guess first or give first and to whom or from whom you want to guess. I'll give first, and I'll give to... All right, so you'll give to Chris.

Chris will give to me, and then I will give to Jorge. Perfect. So I mentioned the groundbreaking iconic musical number at the Oscars. I mentioned that one of the people that were featured in that number was Ms. Vanessa Hutchins. Oh, very fun. Vanessa Hudgens, who I actually think is really good at doing Oscars Red Carpet. Yeah, she actually is. You're totally right.

Any television in Vanessa Hudgens is. No television. All right. Damn, so I can't guess the televised grease. She's really good in it. High School Musical 3. High School Musical 3, correct. Nice.

Spring Breakers. Spring Breakers, correct. Two for two. What's the movie where she's like the. recovering addict who comes home to her family Are you perhaps thinking of the Milakunis one instead?

No, I mean, they all have one. Yeah, that's true. The glenclose Milakunis? Four good days. Why did they not call that movie, why did they not call that movie Jen is back and just name her character, Jen? Why didn't they call that movie

Mama Mia? Would it be acceptable to just say The Vanessa Hudgens For Good Days? Because I won't remember that title. That title is something that's like... I think I know what you're talking about. It's like the same as like a song title.

It is and it's not that. You're thinking of Gimme Shelter. Wow. I can picture the poster to Gimme Shelter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not that. Oh, my God. What's Vanessa Hudgens' horror movie?

Because I know she's done one. She has to have. I may just want to get my clues, so I will say... In this Gimmie Shelter movie. Sorry to... Come on wig. I'll just say high school musical, too, just to... That is incorrect.

Your years are 2011 and 2012. Okay. So these are definitely both pre-gimmie shelter. Pre-Spring Breakers, even. Spring Breakers was 2012, so one is the same year. It was Festival 2012. I think it didn't open properly until 2013. She's not in Secret 9-11.

Is she in, like, remember me? She's not in Secret 9-11. Not fictionally. I don't know. In real life. There are several movies I'm seeing that I'm surprised are not part of her known for. That's not really a spoiler, but maybe it is. Did she do another?

Oh, well, no, she was in Tick-Tick-Bomb, right? But Tick-T-Bomb is too late. It's far too late. I agree. What was she doing at the same time as Spring Breakers? Kind of a lot. Do you need some hints? I think I need some hints.

Okay. One of these is a sequel. Okay. Is it like Journey to the center of the earth? You're so close. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it is Journey 2. Journey 2, Colon, the Mysterious Island. The Mysterious Island.

Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah. Yes. That's the 2012, so you are left with 2011. There was a trend in the early teens where they remade a lot of, like, fairy tales. with, like, Amanda Seifred was in one.

Oh, Beasley. There you go. Beasley. I've never seen Beastly. Oh, it's bad in a fun way, I got to say. It's who, which... Alex Pettifer. Which other twin plays the witch?

Mary Kate Olson plays a witch. Mary Kate Olson plays a witch. Yes. Yes. That's the right Olson to play a witch. Neo Patrick Harris is... Patrick Harris is in it. Dakota Johnson is in it.

Yeah. Yes. Alex Pettifer plays. as the titular beast. But yeah, a lot of, yeah, no tic-tick-took-boom. No, Tick-T-T-Bum, no Sucker Punch, even. Like, Sucker Punch was kind of a big movie for him. For her, rather.

Machete Kills was not there. Second act with J-Lo, anyway. Second act, I'm surprised, wasn't there. What is it that's so crazy about second act again? Because second act is just like, wow, this league. Spoiler alert, spoiler alert. Yeah, to advance about a couple minutes if you don't want to hear the spoiler for second half. She's Jaila Surprise Child.

She's Jaila Surprise daughter. Yes, but I thought there was another twist to it. Because I always remember that, but... No, I thought that was just the twist. Or there's like just a weird context that they get there. Well, yeah, because it's Leah Remini is like, hey, I'm your best friend. And then they find out that Leah Vanessa Hudgens is her secret dog. Oh, rent live.

Oh, remember that? also she's in the latest bad boys movie if you recall interesting i'm not saying you should recall if you see the latest bad boys movie i didn't see any of the bad boy movies beyond the first bad boys movie um so joe for you uh i had to go into what else would i do for mamma mia i got to do someone who's a mom and possibly greek so i chose for you laney because Ah, yes, Lainey Kazan. Okay, all right, cracking my knuckles. My Big Fat Creek wedding.

Correct. Now, whether further Big Fat Greek productions are in our future, I'm not sure. Famously, they have not made my Big Fat Creek Baby yet, even though... Also, I came up with that. The way... I came up with that. You came up with my Big Fat Greek Baby from me. That was a Joe Reed original.

My Big Fat Greek baby. Jerk. The way Mama Mia could be called, my Big Fat Greek guy. All right. Lainey Kazan, Beaches. Incorrect. Fuck off, IMDB. Fuck off.

She was great in beaches. You wanted too much attention. All the time. You drove your father to his grave. All right. My Big Fat Creek Wedding, too. Correct. Is that just what it's called?

Is there no subtitle to it or whatever? No, it's just my Big Fat Greek wedding, too. Okay. All right. So then where do we get Laney Kazan? Do we have to, like, go into the past? Um, this is really bumming me out that she's not, that Beaches is not there for her. Okay.

Um, I mean, I saw a movie, it's not going to be there, but she's in a movie with Divine. called Lust in the Dust, where she plays a saloon a saloon operator in like the old West. I believe Devine's last movie? Yeah. So I'm going to guess that, at least to get to me closer to hints. That is incorrect. Your years are 2003 and 2008.

Fucking rude, especially considering the context that she is not there for my Big Fat Creek question. Yes. O-308, both comedies. With a question mark? Okay. Oh, three, like, are these successful comedies? Oh, well, the O3 movie, absolutely not.

O3 is, we talk so much about 2003, but we never talk about this movie. And I think it's one of, like, the movie stories of 2003. Whoa, okay. But, like, in a flop kind of a way, where there was, like, a lot of expectation for this and then it flopper rude. Well, it's infamous for many reasons. It became relevant again recently. Because of its star or because of its subject matter? Because of who's in it.

Yes. Because of who's in it? Okay. Who recently became relevant again? It is a punchline on a recent television show about movies. on the studio Yeah Interesting

Oh so I would say It's not one person who's in it But two Two so it's like a it's a co-star situation Is it Gili It's Gile Wow Jeeley's on her now for

She's got to be She's got to be his mom Her mom She is billed as mother Yeah She is mother Okay so 2008 2008 is a comedy

This definitely made money I don't, I mean, like, nobody ever talks about this movie. Very famous comedy star. Maybe one of the last, like... Adam Sandler? Is she in, you don't mess with the Zohan? Yes. Okay.

I remember that you don't mess with the Zohan was his 2008 movie because that was the year that it was a heat wave in New York City and I didn't have, not only did I not have an air conditioner in my bedroom, I did not have windows in my bedroom. So my roommate at the time and I went to seek out movie theaters to just sit in and did not matter what was playing. And you don't mess with the Zohan. I think that's probably half of the audience for you don't mess with the Zohan was definitely a recipient. Wanting air conditioning.

Yes, 100%. 100%. Okay. Well, I got there. Okay. Very good. Very good. Okay.

Jorge, for you, I went down the route of Mamma Mia, here we go again. which is directed by O'L Parker, iconic, Mr. Tandyway Newton. Formerly. Former. Oh, did they break up? Sad.

That's sad. Okay. But in addition to, in addition to, Mamma Mia, here we go again, wrote the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel movies, which starred among other people, Judy Dench.

So I'm going to give you Judy Dench. Okay. Judy Dench. God, wouldn't be grateful to do it? What are these? Judy Dench hasn't got her paws on. I was going to say, wouldn't it be incredible if tea with the dames was in it. But it's, um, okay, Shakespeare in Love. Yep, her Oscar.

Okay, her Oscar. Um, not Cats. Um, she has a lot of Oscar nomination. Philomina? Not Filamina. Yeah, okay. Because Shakespeare in love is kind of like what really made her explode. Notes on a scandal?

Notes on a scandal is correct. So rad that that's there. Correct, that's correct. You're not young. I say this to help you. Yeah, I sell you to help you. Someone has died. God, I should rewatch that.

perfect movie. It's 90 minutes. It's always a good time. If you're not showing that movie to your group of gay guy friends, then you are doing it wrong. Yeah, no, no, no. Notes on a scandal parties. Make that a thing. Is the best Exotic Marigold Hotel in it?

It is, in fact. Okay. That movie made a ton of money. Yeah, that was, okay. So now, is the second best Exotic Marigold Hotel? No, not that one. So that's two strikes. So your final movie is 2012.

12. 2012. What was she doing in 2012? Well, Bicodic Marigold Hotel is one of those things, yeah. Almost getting Oscar nominated for this movie. Yes, it is true. It is what she was doing. It is true, yes.

It's like Victorian Abdul? No, right? No, that's 2017. That's 2017. Let's later Remember she was an alien in that Kenneth Brona Coetweed movie?

Ardoinus Fowl that I still She's like a bug. It still exists on my Disney Plus as half-watch. It's like her last movie, isn't it? Is that maybe? No. Her last credited movie on IMDB, this is cursed.

This is dark. It's spirited. Oh, Judy. That's cursed. Oh, oh. Although, I. I will say, Al-a-Luia probably released after Spirited, even though I played festivals in 2020. Yeah.

A movie that only exists on this podcast. True. Okay, is this a comedy? No, it's an action drama. It is a... Oh, it's Skyfall. It is Skyfall. Yes.

Well done. Well done. Very good. You guys, I had such a good time talking about... What a great episode. What a great episode. Always so good to see you. Fawn.

Fawn. Listeners, we hope you had as good of a time listening as we had talking about this movie. That is our episode. If you want more of This Head Oscar Buzz, you can certainly check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. And, of course, you can subscribe to our Patreon at patreon. At patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Jorge Molina, where can the listeners find more of you?

I am now only on really active on Instagram at Caldermie Jorge. Same on letterboxed. I still use Twitter, but I usually mostly to scroll and, and my... Instagram, you will announce... Get my gay guy feed to stay up with a kid. You'll announce your various projects and whatnot via Instagram. Speaking of, can I plug a couple of projects? Plug anything you want to, yes, my gosh.

As of recording today, when does this come out, early August? This will come out on August 4th. Oh, perfect. So by the time you listen to this new podcast that I wrote has already been released, it's a murder mystery narrative podcast called A Murder in Montecito. I was brought in by this amazing company called Sonoro. They were like, hey, Gina Torres wants to be a detective. Can you write something for her? I love that this is finally coming out.

I remember you talking to me about this. Yeah, yeah. So I've been developed, I developed this project with Gina for a couple of years now, and now it's all coming out. That's awesome. It's, yeah, by the time this opens out, all episodes will have been out. We got an amazing cast besides Gina. We have like Constance Marie and Alan Tudic and Gideon Glick. Damn.

Oh, I love all those people. This is so exciting. So, yeah, please go and listen. We had a blast. I also later in the fall, I'm not sure which time, but I will be part of a short anthology publication for murder. Like, it's called Ten Little Mysteries. It's ten stories inspired by the golden age of Detective Fission. So I have a little short story that will be published there.

I think book is not ready for pre-order yet, but it will be soon. In my Instagram, I will post it. Awesome. And, yeah, I wrote a movie about a detective that solves a murder by watching an old restoration of a movie. I love that. Love that. So cool. Yeah, it was very.

And, yeah, and I'm also in the final stages of my directorial debut for a short film. My God. We are, yeah, it'll be done hopefully by the end of the summer. It's called The Motive. Yes, it is a whodunit because that's. all I can create apparently. The culture is in dire need of fun

So I'm in the final stages Thank you to all the garris who like donated to it And both of you who like I will chime in as well thank you to all the garries who donated to it We love you. We love you We love when our garries support our own No I'm eternally grateful The go fund me is still open if anyone

It's on my link My Instagram links But yeah I'm getting ready to finish that up So, yeah, that's all. I luckily have a lot of to plug right now. I love that, Jorge. That's so great for you. All right, awesome.

We love our beloved staying booked and busy. Yes, exactly, exactly. All right, Chris File. Where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris V File. That's F-E-I-O. I am on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi

called Demi Myself and I at Patreon.com slash DemiPod. That is spelled D-E-M-I-P-P-O-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So take a chance, take a chance, take a chachin-chance, on writing something nice about us. Thanks all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. It was Aphrodite.