This Had Oscar Buzz - 356 – The Fountain

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

After an indie one-two punch of Pi and Requiem for a Dream, Darren Aronofsky was riding high as one of the major emerging directors at the turn of the century. For his next film, he would graduate to big budget studio fare with The Fountain, an ambitious and era-spanning science fiction tale of love and death. The scaled-down version … Continue reading "356 – The Fountain"

Oh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get now in a man. We want to talk to Maryland Hack, Maryland Hack and friends. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh Is everything all right? How's she doing?

She had a seizure. Wait. I'm afraid. It's been progress of work. My conquistador, always conquering. We tested the substance. This home. Your wife needs you.

Because there's a disease. I'm secure, and I will find it. You pulled me through time. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast running phone sex customer service for The Mattress Man. Every week on this Head Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my road to awe, Corey. I was like, what's he going to do with this? Am I his conquistador? Am I his monkey with his brain cut open? Am I his diligent Donna Murphy? Donna Murphy being in this movie, I did not remember, I will say. I put her name in this outline in all caps.

The shot of Donna Murphy, Sean Patrick Thomas, and Ethan Suppley sharing the frame. Honestly, what a crew. Only in an Aronovsky movie. I also loved that, like, the first time you see her, she's got a surgical mask on. And even still, I was like, is that Donna Murphy? I was so excited. Donna Murphy in the aughts in movies is always in some type of lab. That's true.

She's in Dr. Octopus's lab. She's in, not in a lab in the door and the floor. She's in a frame store. Where does she work? She works at a photography shop. Photo lab. Photo lab. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure that, you know, that photography shop has. a, like, lab dog that just, like, chills. A labrador. A labrador. A labrador in the floor. Whoa. Yeah. Um, that was one of the, one of the surprises of this movie. Um, how many times did you, had you, have you seen the fountain? Is this just number two or is this? Oh, no, I've seen this many, many times. Um, when it first came out, I was there, opening day, baby, uh, me and a friend, opening

day, nice, Thanksgiving weekend, after working retail. Oh, my God, perfect. and I think closer to release I probably rewatched it a bunch apparently I rewatched it at some point in 2018 and then now now feels like the freshest most clear-eyed viewing of the movie I think I've had in that like I've always been kind of fully in the tank for this movie yeah and now I can kind of I can have some of at least what I think are my own flaws about it I don't know if it's necessarily what other people have issues with. There are some people that hate this movie, judging by the letterbox logs, that I'm like, really, really? You hate it that much. I can see hating this movie because this movie does have a lot of those, like, I think the second that Hugh Jackman shows up in Lotus Pose, I think a lot of people probably check out of this movie. And I do feel like they're missing out, and I do feel a little bit of pity for those people.

but like I guess I understand for some people like it's just it's the people I don't want to characterize I think you can dislike the fountain in good faith certainly but I also feel like the people who use pretentious incorrectly would not care for this movie you know what I mean the people who say pretentious when they just mean annoying well or just like like or um artsy you know what i mean or uh you know intelligent or whatever i guess that's up its own ass yeah but like i don't think i don't think this movie i mean what is up its own ass like i guess this movie is this movie has a concept as many erinofsky movies do actually like this is sort of people's problems with Aronovsky a lot. Every Aronovsky movie is about religion. Well, but it's also just like I, the thing that I like about so many of his

movies, and there are very few that I don't like. We really don't have to talk about the whale again. But like, the thing that I like about most Aronovsky movies is he comes up with a conceit and then invests fully into it, right? And I guess that's maybe the definition.

of sort of crawling up one's own ass is just sort of just like I am going to plow full speed ahead into this particular conceit that is strange, right? This idea that, you know, this person who has achieved immortality then, you know,

through methods, has gotten a bubble spaceship and is now traveling to the Chibulah Nebula, just in time for it to explode. Or, I mean, like, what is mother, if not, like, just fully investing in a very particular conceit, right? What is pie? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, all of, like, it's a common thread through a lot of these. And maybe the thing is, is he's better at doing that than he is trying to glom on to somebody else's idea. Like, I know, I think Requiem for a Dream is a very good movie. It's a very good movie. But on the list of, like, my Aronovsky faves, it's pretty decently far down the list. Do you know what I mean? Well, like, half of the Aronovsky films are adaptations, and then half of those adaptations

are, like, adapted from the Bible. You know, and I don't, I don't know, even adaptations for him, like, have you read Requiem for a dream? God, no. It's definitely like Aronovsky's take on Selby. Like, it's not, you know, the energy of those two things are very different. And I don't know. And then, again, we don't have to just belabor the point of the whale, but. On top of the many, many, many, many, many problems I had with that movie,

it's also just that, you know, Aronovsky is not the person to do a chamber drama. Even if it's a chamber drama that has, like, all of the fascinations that the rest of his filmography has. Right. You know, it felt like such an intentional pivot away from mother. Yeah, mother's the kind of chamber drama I want to see him do, which is all. all in one house, but the house is the entire world. Like, yeah, no, that's cool. I mean, Mother starts as a chamber drama and is slowly unraveling until, like,

you're drowning in the thread. Yeah. Well, the other obsession that Aronovsky has that does show up in this movie, although maybe less, you know, obviously. But, like, Aronovsky's obsession with, I mean, I mean, he has the Inquisition guy say it, right? Our bodies are prisons for our souls. Like, that, to me, feels like a real Aronovsky thesis, because you can, you can take that into Black Swan, you can take that into the whale, you can take that into the wrestler for sure.

The wrestler for sure. Even mother, I guess Noah, you can't really do it. But that definitely feels to me like, and like Requiem for a dream, certainly, right? Like, what is, you know, Requiem for a Dream, but, you know, certainly Ellen Burstyn, at least, like, seeing herself as, you know, differently than the body that she's in. And there's so much, there's body horror with the, you know, the amputation in that scene and that whole kind of thing. But the body, the soul, the origins of the body and the soul being religion, death for sure. he is fascinated by death. But Jackman trying to literally do battle with

the, you know, the decay of the human body, that we can eventually defeat death because it is you know, just a disease like any other. And if we can do that, then the soul can attain immortality, whether

it is through you know, medical means, and yoga or becoming a tree and living for a tree. The exact line is death is a disease and there's a cure just like any other and I will find it. That's exactly when you press play on your mayhem, re-listen, disease starts right away. Hugh Jack and says that line and you hear the, oh, don't like, copyright that because some drag queen should actually use that. Mash up the fountain with disease.

mash up the fountain with disease, yes, absolutely. Joe Reed, I think you are that drag queen. This is how we entry you into the world of drag. This is how it goes, yes. Because I think nobody, I want to know the drag queen that would be doing Aronovsky sound by it. Hugh Jackman is a figure of camp. So doing a Hugh Jackman lip sync going into Lady Gaga is camp.

I'm sorry, it just is. My Aronovsky drag number has 47. reveals, because that's how many scarves I'm wearing. And then the final one, the final reveal, I take off the little page boy cap, and it's just a rain of scarves from underneath my little cap. He loves those two. Anyway, I love this movie.

I really do. Big fan. Big fan, big play. This movie is a big part of the reason why I am as much of an Aronovsky apologist as I am and why I will you know

can't imagine ever truly abandoning my enthusiasm for him I'm so excited for this new movie every time I see that trailer I'm like hell yeah fuck yeah this trailer you know

we just like listed all of the thing all of the like fascinations that Aronovsky has and least they don't seem to be present in this trailer Yeah, this trailer seems so... Guy Ritchie? I mean, you could say Guy Ritchie.

Like, the poster looks so smoking aces. Like, the trailer seems so hell bent on selling to you that this is just a movie. Dera-Arenovsky just made a movie. So much so that I'm like, well, you're lying to me. Like, this has to. What are you concealing here? Right. Right.

This is really all about, you know, the inevitability of death or something. You know, this is really all about the story of Job. Heist is the Road to Ah. Yeah. What's it called again? It's going to be something. There's more to it than is beneath the surface. We're recording this weeks before the movie comes out, but...

It's got such a generic title, too, caught stealing. Okay. Jane's Addiction. but like this episode will drop the week that it that the movie opens so I'm sure people will be talking about it but at this point we haven't heard like any whispers of this movie has no one seen this yet they're just I haven't heard from anybody who has seen it but here's what I'm saying even if the first round of reviews are all like this is trash I'm like I will still probably yeah as excited to see it like of course it's is going to, like, it is promising trash, right? It is promising trash to you. Well, and I think I'm in the tank for Austin Butler because some of my favorite stuff in Eddington was his weirdo shit. Yeah. He's great in Eddington. I mean, Eddington is maybe my favorite movie of the year so far. So, like, I am not a reliable source when it

comes to a measured opinion on Eddington. But, like, no, I think he's great. I feel like we haven't talked about it on Mike. But I'll just say, like, I'm in it for, like, the last hour of the movie, I was like, great. That's what most people's, I've heard that opinion from a lot of people, yeah. First hour and a half, I didn't really need it, didn't really know what it was serving, but the extended scene where Austin Butler shows up at their house, incredible. I was like, I don't understand what this energy is, but like, I'm loving this right here. I think, and I'm not necessarily, I don't necessarily, and the same.

I don't want to take us too far afield into Eddington because I do feel like we'll be able to talk about Eddington in a couple of years, I will say. I do not anticipate that movie getting any Oscar nominations. I think one of the interesting things about so many people saying that they didn't like the first half of the movie is that the first half of the movie is the one that is more heavily weighted towards what some people are, I think, think erroneously interpreting as Ari Aster's conservatism and it sort of showing liberals to be incredibly annoying in the first half of that movie. And I just think it's interesting that like, and again, I'm not saying that this is your interpretation of it, but that so many people are like, well, I don't like the part where liberals are annoying, but I do like the part were conservatives are evil as fuck i was just like okay i just even think the like here's how liberals

are annoying are is very low-hanging fruit like it's an hour and a half of very low-hanging it happened though that was that was the world like that was i think i think when you're need 90 minutes of that movie to be like yeah but remember when this happened um i think it does I think that movie needs all of that as its foundation before it gets to, because again, if you, whatever, like, I don't want to get into a plot. A full month after this movie has been, like, opened and forgotten. We're talking about it on my. It's not for, I will not let it. It'll probably be hitting VOT and people will be talking about it again. I just feel like the, the movie that leads up to this sort of like psychodrama that maybe Joaquin Phoenix, you know, births into being this idea of like the Antifa boogeyman, which I think is a brilliant idea. I don't think you, I think you build up to that by showing how Joaquin Phoenix is, you know, already, he's, you know, this powder keg waiting to explode and the way that everybody was being in 2020, you know, pushed him towards that.

I don't know. I mean, to me, you say the people that are like, Ari Aster is a conservative. I am like, what are you talking about? Because like the whole movie is leading up to being this like embodiment of the far right mindset, you know, the Maga mindset into the point where like Antifa is actually a real thing in the logic of this movie. It's because it's embodying these far-right Yahoo's. I would venture to say that 80% of the people who are going with the Ari Aster is a conservative thing haven't actually seen the movie and are only hearing about things that are in the movie.

Well, and I just, I also think that the movie is kind of an extended troll. I think Ariaster being in the press being like, uh, he's like, I'm not telling you what my politics are and like things are deceptively in there. And I'm like, give me a break. Like, it is very clear that your politics are towards the left in this movie and you just find other people. Finding people annoying is not the same thing as being critical of them. Right. I find most of the people on my side politically to be very annoying.

It's just how it is. But, like, annoying. Well, and I just, I feel like the movie that he constructed is a troll on these, like, I think he. He thought that he could trick Maga people into seeing and loving this movie and trolling them the whole time. And I'm like, I don't know if that's successfully achieved, but I do think that there is something good going on here.

Yeah. Yeah. Favorite movie of the year. Love it so much. All right. I liked it better than Bo's Afraid. I'll say that. I did too, but I still really liked Boas Afraid.

I haven't not liked an Ariasster movie, I will say. But, God, I wonder. Our answer is a good analog to Aronovsky, though, because, like, both directors that people just have, like, being their bonnet about and are definitely down to hate on. Yep, yep. And I feel like in many ways, my appreciation for them exists on similar wavelengths, where I'm just like, yes, give it to me. You know what I mean?

Just, like, go over the top. This is great. I love it. Because The Fountain is a movie that I think does go over the top. It does it in, you know, in ways that are sort of lushly romantic or, you know, again, future yoga. But it's definitely a movie that frequently goes over the top. This is a movie that ultimately involves Hugh Jackman. chugging come from a tree?

See, it's too, it's not transparent enough. It's like literal Elmer's glue. Yeah, he's the weird kindergartner that's like eating glue. But obviously the metaphor there is pretty clear. Peronowski knows what he's doing. But like the blood of the tree of life given the color palette of this movie, you couldn't make it a more, like, offensive color than just having it be opal white. Well, this is somebody who, I mean, whatever, like, we're all on board with the fact that, like, all three of these versions of Hugh Jackman are, if not the same person, then at least versions of the same person, right?

The Conquistador is his wife's, you know, literary depiction of him in the Spanish Inquisition. And future, you know, future Lotus Pose Hugh Jackman is probably literal same guy from, you know, the present day parts of the movie, just having achieved immortality through this little. At the very least, it's also part of her book, or it's, you know what I mean? But like, that's the most, I think, literal answer you could give this, is that he is a character in her book. Right. Because, like, if you start opening this thing to questions of, is he literally the same person living throughout time? Is he some representative version of it? is it a reincarnation thing?

I think you have to answer yes to all of those questions. That's the thing is it is kind of yes for all of it. Because if you look at it in the idea that none of this is actual characters from a book, this all actually happened, and then you do it chronologically. The Conquistador makes it to the tree of life. And you can't do it chronologically because the Conquistador only gets past the guy with the flaming sword because the guy with the flaming sword sees him as the future version of him and thinks that he's God.

But anyway, Conquistador, Hugh Jackman, gets to the tree, drinks of the tree, becomes subsumed by the tree, and then... Becomes a perennial. Becomes ground cover. And then, you know, centuries later, that tree, presumably, is what they get the organic material from to use in the... experiments that they're doing, that then gives that Tommy, right, Tommy, the scientist, presumably

eternal life, so that 500 years in the future, he can then take his tree wife in a orb up to Shibulba in time for that star to explode. So at the very least Yes, it's the same person And that like the Conquistador It became the tree That got injected into Tommy Who then became, you know, immortal

Well, he became the tree The wife became the tree So now the tree is also his wife So really the thing that he loves And, you know, is devoted to is this idea of eternal life, not even the real. Because, like, when his wife in corporeal form shows up in the tree bubble... Well, that's just a projection.

It's all of the different versions of her across time, you know? Yes. Well, that's what that's, you know, these are artistic flourishes, right? But I'm, I... Also, do you feel like Scarlett Johansson watches this movie is incredibly jealous that both Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss get to play trees? Yeah. do you think she's like this is what I was talking about this quote needs to die I love that quote I love that quote because I honestly agree with here she should be able to play a tree um but they both get to play trees that's so wonderful no I think but I think I think you're right obviously that

like there are multiple interpretations of this plot that you know can be metaphysical can be But I do like the fact that you can take an incredibly literal translation of this movie and just be like, you know, it is in many ways one character. You have to be willing to go with a flow. Get on this movie's galaxy brain wavelength. Which I think is true of most movies, actually. Like, you really just have to like surrender yourself to the director's vision. And in this case, he's on one. And thank God.

Much like in Mother, you really do. have to submit yourself to this biblical idea and this obvious allegory that Aronovsky will be happy to tell you. He's right. Aronovsky was right. Where's that t-shirt? Where's my Aronovsky was right t-shirt? Yeah, I'm saying he got annoying, as you can listen to in our mother episode, he got very

annoying telling people how to interpret that movie. But like you have to get on board with this metaphor for this individual human person. going through the type of psychological and physical abuse that she goes through in that movie is a representation of our earth. Some people, that's a bridge too far, what is depicted to that character. I'm saying in scare quotes, because she's a character, but she's the earth. My favorite thing that we do on this podcast... You just have to get on board with what he's doing.

My favorite thing that we do on this podcast is use scare quotes and then try an indicate that we're using scare quotes with our inflection because it is the we are of course going to be the last uh the last stand against video podcasting so you will have to just continue us a who weekly um but you do have to uh you know just listen to our inflection when it sounds like you can picture us making scare quotes with our fingers that's what we're doing yeah yeah death to video podcasting. Listen, I watch enough of them that I can't, I can't be a hypocrite.

It's so rarely interesting to sit and, I mean, like, podcasts are, I listen to many, but like to watch two people just sit and talk and it's not a talk show. Like, I don't, I don't understand what we're doing here. You want to see people's faces. You want to see people's pretty faces. No, not always. No. That's what I go to the cinema for.

And not always sometimes, you know. Yeah, you have to, and maybe this is why I hate the whale. I can't get on board with the delusional reality Aronovsky has that, like, no, this is an empathetic movie. You maybe just have to buy that before you can accept that movie because that's delusional to me. But the difference is, I think there's a difference between, listen to what I'm telling you despite the fact that nothing in this movie is backing up what I'm telling you

versus just ride the wave and you'll get it which I think is true of movies like Mother and The Fountain and you know pie even probably you know his most grounded in reality movie and that's the wrestler

has this kind of spiritual element and I think is also has its own distancing effect not just being that Mickey Roark is so wildly unpleasant but the amount of sustained physical degradation that character has to go through is like yeah you just got to ride this awful painful wave and then of course because Aronovsky is Aronovsky it all becomes some grand and, like, you know, ambiguous death commentary by the end of the movie. Yeah, a very interesting director, I will say.

I read up on his bio, hoping that I could find some sort of, like, you know, Rosetta Stone in there or something. But it's just like he grew up in Manhattan Beach. He went to New York City public high schools. He did have a sort of like walkabout era, right? Where he, what did he, he like, he went to, give me a second, because, um, hold on, hold on. Um, oh, right, yes, he trained as a field biologist in Kenya and then in Alaska in the 1980s. This was when he would have been 20, you know what I mean?

And then majored in social anthropology at Harvard. Like all the things that sort of like make him annoying also kind of like come from things that make him, you know, kind of an interesting person. But, like, you can imagine him cornering you at a party and talking to you about, like, when I was in Kenya, when I studied in Kenya. You know what I mean? So. Running away screaming with my arms wailing in the air. But, like, you know, he's, again, like, it's field biology. It's social anthropology.

All of these things where it's just, like, can I, can I understand this craft. little ape called man. You know what I mean? And I don't know. I think it's, I think it's a more interesting background for a director than my dad was Ivan Reitman, like, not to like pick on Jason Reitman. But do you know what I mean? Like this is, it's an interesting. He also considers himself such a secular person that it's so interesting that like all of his movies have a religious component. Even when it's like, It doesn't belong here, but, like, you know... Yeah.

There is something like pseudo-religious or religious imagery to something like Black Swan. Right. You know. He got an MFA from the AFI Conservatory where his classmates included Todd Field, Doug Ellen, Scott Silver, and Mark Waters. That's interesting to me. I don't know. It's an interesting class of filmmaker.

It's an interesting class of filmmaker. Right. Anyway, so the Fountain, well, we'll talk, should we talk about the production history before we talk about, before we do the plot description, or do we do all of that after the plot description? I feel like we could maybe do it after, because I think some of the production history is really where you get into the Oscar buzz. The Oscar buzz, kind of, because, like, it's hard to not watch the movie as it currently stands. It's hard to not talk about the movie. as like its wings are clipped, you know, in a very noticeable way, in a very, like, public way when all the production stuff was happening.

So before we do any of that, why don't you tell our listeners about our Patreon? Hey, listeners, you should sign up for our Patreon. It's called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. We've been doing it for a couple of years now. It is merely $5 a month. And it's a fantastic value for $5. a month. What did I say last time? It's a banana, Michael. What could it cost?

$10? That's always what I feel like when I'm making the case that like, it's $5, Michael. What could it cost? You get two bonus episodes a month for that $5. Two whole bonus episodes a month. The first of those drops on the first Friday of every month. It is what we call an exception. These are movies that we would have liked to talk about on this head Oscar Buzz main feed, but it got an Oscar nomination or two, even though it had the same formula of high Oscar expectations, disappointing results. These are movies like The Lovely Bones and Charlie Wilson's War and House of Gucci and Mary Queen of Scots, Big Fish, earlier this month, we did an episode on Contact, one of my very favorite movies. There's just a

ton, there's a ton of exceptions to go back to. And these are movies that for years, we kind of bemoaned, like, if only we could talk about The Mirror Has Two Faces, except for the fact that it was an Oscar nominee. Well, now we did, and we have, and it is there for you. So the second episode you get every month on the third Friday is what we call an excursion, which isn't really talking about a movie so much is talking about things in the movie biz that have made us into the psychopaths that we are. So we talk about our little movie obsessions. These include things like watching old award shows like the MTV Movie Awards or the Independent Spirit Awards or Golden Globe Awards. We talk about old Hollywood Reporter roundtables. We talk about

the movie line issue where Jennifer Lopez talked shit about everybody in Hollywood. We talked about the Oscar's Greatest Moments VHS that we all got with a free subscription to Time Magazine. And this month, we go deep.

Will this have already come up, gone up by this point, Chris? Yes. This is the last August episode. All right. So, if you sign up, you'll be able to immediately download and listen to our episode on the 2000 Entertainment Weekly Fall Movie Preview.

a very, very interesting fall season, indeed, full of, you got your pay it forward here, you've got your Men of Honor, you've got your Remember the Titans, you've got your Almost famous, there's so many really interesting 2000 movies, including a page preview for Mulan Rouge, a movie that wouldn't even open in the fall of 2000. We'll be talking about it. So just plenty, plenty, plentiful reasons to go sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz, turbulent brilliance, which you can do at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. The Fountain.

The Fountain. Written and directed by Darren Mavsky with a shared story credit with his producing partner, Ari Handel, film stars huge shows. Jackman, Rachel Weiss, Ellen Burstyn, Cliff Curtis, Donna Murphy, Sean Patrick Thomas, Ethan Suppley, and of course, because this is this era of Aronovsky, Mark Margolis. That's right. That's right. The movie premiered in competition at the Venice Film Festival,

went on to play TIF, and then opened wide Thanksgiving weekend, November 22nd, 2006. We talked about this weekend in our History Boys episode, so I don't think we really got to get into the box office. Except to say... 10th place, though. 10th place. Several places behind deck the halls.

Let's just say that. Let's just say that. Yeah. Joe, would you like to give a 60-second plot description for the motion picture, the fountain? With the caveat that there is absolutely no way in heaven that this is hitting. 60 seconds, but yes. All right. Then, your 60-second plot description for The Fountain starts now.

Hugh Jackman plays Tommy, a research scientist trying to find a cure for cancer generally, but for his wife, Izzy's brain cancer specifically. Only he's so maniacically determined to save Izzy's life that he doesn't spend any time with her during her final few weeks. During this time, Izzy is writing a novel about their love story that exists in three time periods,

the first of which is the Spanish Inquisition, when the queen censor conquistador Tomas, to the new world to find the fabled tree of life, and when he returns with it, they can live together forever. Back in the present day, Tommy and his fellow scientists see dramatic results with an organic material that was found in the Central American jungle. The material halts degeneration in cells effectively reversing the aging process, but it's not having any effect on cancer's tumors, which is the only thing Tommy is after. So despite the breakthrough, Izzy still dies,

and Tommy remembers the story she told about planting a tree over a dead body in a way that the dead person's body will feed that tree and allow that person to live forever. He plants a seed pod from the Central American tree over Izzy's grave. Jumpa had 500 years to an unaged Tommy, now bald and very into yoga and floating in an orb through space on his way to the Shibulban Nebula, which was the final location of Izzy's novel, where the dying star would eventually explode and create new life. Tommy is accompanied by a tree, which we can assume is the tree that grew over and now incorporates, Izzy. Cut back to our conquistador, who finds the location of the tree of life, only it's guarded

by a large group of heavily armed Mayans. Tomas engages in battle with the priest guarding the tree, who suddenly sees Tomas as the future Tommy in lotus pose and assumes he is the first father, allowing Thomas to access the tree of life, which Tamar immediately punctures and discovers that Elmer's glue the flows from it, has restorative powers, so that he just starts chugging it, which is a bad idea, because after about a minute he starts sprouting an uncontrolled vegetation, eventually becoming more ground cover than man. Back in the future, Ball Tommy and his orb reached Shiboba, just as the star explodes in a blast of cosmic energy that probably tears Tommy apart or perhaps just incorporates Tommy and his Izzy Tree into whatever new life

the stardust will now create. The end slash the beginning. 38 seconds over. Honestly, not bad. I'm going to say it. Not bad. You could also just like maybe give the vagus plot synopsis about it and then just say vibes? Because I think... Donna Murphy working in a lab, the end. Donna Murphy works in a lab with a really, really irritating coworker. I feel like, you know, it's so... You can understand why a viewer who would sit down for this movie having no knowledge

of the pre-production of this movie, a pre-production of this movie, a pre- almost production of this movie would be frustrated but then you know someone who's a knowing audience member but is like well you see this used to be like twice as much movie right right so that's the sort of the production history of it and also like you say that also really ties into the Oscar buzz because if you look at the trajectory that Aronovsky was on where he makes his big sort of breakthrough debut in 1998 with Pye which like one of those

Made for no money famously low budget movies and it really and it looks it but also it's one of those movies that like it looks like it was made for $60,000 but it also has so much going on on an ideas level that you can see

why it would have attracted like it almost like the the murkiness of the visual plays into its appeal because it feels like this movie that you shouldn't be watching you know what i mean that like the ideas are just too radical and like if if you know the like dog shit big visual aesthetics of the movie seem intentional it's like that rare early digital video uh type of move moment and movement where

it's actually you know like working with the limitations of its aesthetics it's about this guy who becomes obsessed with this idea that, like, obsessed with numerology in a very sort of, like, paranoid way, it then delves into these, like, conservative, this group of conservative Jewish people who feel like he has, this character has, um, somehow accessed their like great, like, secret guarded, you know, secrets of the universe or whatever

and so everybody's after him the government's after him you know it's a paranoid sort of thriller but it's a paranoid thriller built around this idea that like the Fibonacci spiral is it contains like God in it right that like the pie the digits to pie

are also some sort of like you know ecclesiastical God key right exact God key very good way to put it tremendously interesting movie, tremendously, you know, impressive and skillful, and became not just sort of like a critical, like, it wasn't just sort of like critics and fanboys that were really into it. Like, people in the industry were really fascinated by this, I think.

You heard a lot of people at the time talk about, like, have you seen this movie Pie? Ellen Burstyn talks about how, like, seeing that movie was what convinced. her to do The Fountain. The Requiem for a Dream. What did I say? You said The Fountain. Oh, sorry, yes, Requiem for a Dream. Yes.

Getting an Oscar nomination for Requiem for a Dream is what convinced her to do The Fountain, because she has nothing to do in this movie. So then Requium for a Dream then follows that. It's, as you mentioned, the adaptation of the Hubert Selby novel. Was that a novel that, like, had been, they had been trying to make. into a movie for a while. I really don't know necessarily the history of it. I think he was just like a Selby devotee. He's talked about, you know, adapting Selby in film school for like a project. That movie debuts a can. I forget if it was in certain regard or if it was a midnight movie freaks everyone out. Yeah. Because it's an extreme movie. Though I kind of feel like the reputation around Requiem a dream as like can't ever watch that again that's sort of how i'm at but i've never tried so i don't have and it's it's much more i guess maybe you know once you've you've already seen

the movie it's like your palate is shocked and you know it'll never reset ever again right um but i found it much more palatable than that like the i think what's despairing about at the core of that is so much more upsetting than any of the on-screen content. You know, it's just such a, like, in its bones, a bleak thing. But it is such a unique directorial calling card, especially at that moment, you know, as a sophomore follow-up to this very low-budget movie that obviously got enough respect, you know, to carry burst into a comeback nomination given that, you know, there's the whole ratings controversy. He didn't want to edit the movie down, so they release it unrated, even though they'd slapped it with an NC-17.

You can kind of see why while at the same time. You have people arguing, like, well, instead of Dare programs, we should be showing teenagers this movie and they'll never do drugs. But I also feel like the nature of that Burst denomination, really, I imagine, gets a lot of actors wanting to work with him because this is, it's a great showcase for her. It's, you know, in an industry that does not provide a ton of opportunities for women in general, but older women specifically, that it's this, you know, very, you know, interesting and, you know, gives an actress a lot to work with, a lot to do, a lot of emotional terrain to cover. And a lot of what, you know, Aronovsky's characters are required to go through, ask a lot of the actors that perform them. But for so early in his career, having a film that's as extreme as Requiem for a Dream,

really paying off for someone like Ellen Burstyn, you can see how. a lot of actors would be willing to go on for the ride. And then it keeps becoming a repeated theme throughout his career. Even when Aronovsky's out, he's still winning Oscars for Brendan Fraser. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So around the time that Requiem for a Dream is kind of riding high, he's polishing up the idea for the script of The Fountain. And it's a much bigger project than it ultimately ends up becoming you know it's there's battle sequences which like the battle sequence in this movie

looks like three dudes fighting yeah yeah um two of whom there's two of whom try to run away there's much more extensive sets there's much more extensive cg i planned and all of this kind of comes about by erinowski getting brad pitt to agree to do the movie right when brad pitt signs up, then Kate Blanchett signs up, and then Warner Brothers is like, we'll give you $70 million to make this movie. So at this point, if you are following Aronovsky on an Oscar trajectory, which lunatics like us were, and we were definitely not the only ones, Requium is obviously a step up from Pi, but it really only gets that one nomination for Burstyn, but it's one very, you know, flashing nomination.

And then so then you look at what's on the horizon with the fountain where it's bigger. He's, you know, leveling up to something bigger. The star power is bigger. And I feel like there was just a ton of expectation for what this project was going to be, that it could be, you know, the next evolution for Aronovsky in terms of an officer. Oscar movie. This could be like one of the big ones of the year that this is going to come out. And it was initially, I think, targeted for a 2004 release. And the budgets, what did it say? $70 million. You know, big studio, a movie from Warner Brothers. He's no longer working with, you know, an indie studio. So this feature. feels like a big one. And for an original property, too, because even then in the early aughts, you know,

that's pretty significant, you know, a very big leveling up. Yeah. From movie to movie to movie. Right. And so it all seems to be great on paper. And in practice, it involves Darren Aronovsky and Brad Pitt having to be on the same page. and they were not. And I don't know.

Brad Pitt wants rewrites for his character because this is one of the star ego things, right? Where like a lot of movie stars want certain rewrites and such. They want the property to be more about them and to be more in line with their star persona. Which is interesting because if you look at, and obviously I don't know if we ever have heard specifically what Brad's problems were with the original,

version of the fountain. But if you look at what we got, right, I don't think you look in that movie and you'd be like, wow, Hugh Jackman's barely in that thing. You know what I mean? Like, Hugh Jackman's in all of that thing. He's in three different timelines in this movie. Like, I'm, I would be curious. You want to like find interesting personal connections and you maybe want to control the narrative a little bit. So you could understand. And also, this is not the only power structure being like, well, if this isn't really where I'm at creatively, Brad Pitt can go and make whatever other movie he does feel that way with. And what is the movie he ends up feeling that way about? Troy. He leaves this movie to go make Troy. I really, really, really want

to do a Patreon episode on Troy at some point, because I have so many things to say about that movie. Brad Pitt left this and went to Troy because he was like, you know, the fountain really doesn't have enough of my Fupa You know, it doesn't have Enough of my Pre-Bush area showing on screen And Wolfgang Peterson says

Come make our movie And I will make sure that that part of your body Is on screen as much as possible? Oh my God. All right. Is that part of his body Not shown a lot in Troy? Almost every part of it.

of Brad Pitt's body is on display in that movie. So much about Troy is Brad Pitt being like, I bet you think you'll see my penis. I bet you think you'll see my penis. It's true. It's true. What was I going to say? Brad Pitt leaves this movie.

This is not the first time that Brad Pitt will have clashed with a director or had some sort of on, you know, pre-production or during production strife. Again, we're getting ready to talk about the EW fall preview movie in 2000, which includes Almost Famous, which was a movie where Brad Pitt was originally supposed to star as Russell Hammond. I think... See, that's a choice I can...

I'm sure we'll talk about it when we get there, but, like, since Brad Pitt is like a topic this episode, like, Brad Pitt's not right for Almost Famous? The title is Almost Famous. Like, he's too famous for that role. That is a movie that in its initial, I don't, I'm sure Cameron Crow, we'll talk about it. Let's not, let's not blow it here. But also, like, other Brad Pitt movies that, you know, have had this sort of thing. We talked about the devil's own a while ago, a movie where there was a lot of back and

forth over whether Pitt or Harrison Ford should be more prominent. And I think Pitt, as he got older, and he had, you know, sort of more and more control, and he was becoming a producer on things. It's kind of fascinating that he's never directed, because he is somebody who, I think, we hear more and more about how much control he wants to have over his projects. And... And he's not the only one that's like this. No. Like DiCaprio movies have fallen apart all the time for these type of reasons. Yes.

But anyway, so things become untenable. Obviously, very famously. Obviously and famously. Yes. Joaquin Phoenix sort of going from Autour to Autour in Hollywood until they get sick of his bullshit is very interesting and funny. And now he's attached to Ariaster, They're bringing up Ariashtra once again in this episode, but it's interesting.

Anyway, things become untenable between Brad and Darren Aronovsky and... Aronovsky's basically doesn't want to do the rewrites. And so two months before the movie is supposed to start shooting, while sets are being built, etc., pit leaves the project. Sets have been built because when it falls apart, they like auction off the sets. It's... They took a $20 million loss on this movie. which is almost 20 not exactly they lost like 18 million it's catastrophic like it is absolutely

and you have to feel like because they did eventually go back and allow erinofsky to make the movie even at a reduced budget i feel like that says to me that the studio was at least in some way sympathetic to Aronovsky in the conflict with Pitt, right? Because otherwise, they would have been like, we're not working with you anymore. You just blew up this movie. You know, what's to say you're not going to blow it up at 70 million? You know what I mean? And it tells me at the very least that there was some faith that Aaron Aronovsky, that Darren Aronovsky, what if he had a brother named Aaron Aronovsky? Like, what then? And they both decided to make a movie. together. But does it make sense what I'm saying that, like, W.B., if W.B. thought that

Aronovsky was the, the problem on that set, that they just would not have decided, they would have cut their losses with him. Well, and also, like, he's a hot young director. He's a commodity in its own. Like, you can see at this stage in his career, somebody wanting to be in the air, you know, a studio wanting to be in the Aronovsky business. Yeah. Not today. Today they would be like, you can make our superhero movie or we're not interested in you. And there were strides to kind of save the production as it was supposed to be. They tried to get Russell Crow on board. Russell Crow didn't really want to be working at that time. But that starts a relationship with Russell Crow and Aronovsky, where they... Finally, Noah, thank God, happens. What would the world be like if we didn't get Noah?

the least discussed Darren Aronofsky movie but very far from the least interesting I would say oh wow that's fascinating I never think about Noah is well because like

I think people see Noah as like a poster or a trailer and you're like all right biblical epic starring Russell Crow I think I got it like I don't need to see that

and there is actually this kind of real interesting moral reckoning within that story and then also a lot of weird shit as well that make it so much more of a Aronovsky movie than you probably think that it is just looking at that thing on its face and probably also why no one talks about it because like it's not for the Christians it's not for the non-Christians it's a movie for no one yeah I think that's probably true

made $100 million It did It did crazy It sure did But yeah And it makes sense That Werner's would try to salvage it

Because again You really don't want to take A $20 million loss On something Like So It then goes into This sort of

Two-year period Of turnaround or whatever I don't know I know Turnaround is a very specific term In the industry So I don't know

what exactly you would call it, but to pare down the script to reduce the costs of what this movie would, you know, would have to be. So the second version of the budget is what, half of what the original one was, right? It was like 35. Yeah, the movie as it exists, had a $35 million production. So at a $35 million budget, you're doing, you're still going to space, you're still doing, you know, conquistadors in the jungle of whatever. But, like, again, if you look at- No battle sequences.

We're lucky that we get the Spanish Inquisition stuff, which I think is some of the most interesting stuff in this movie. Yeah, same. You can kind of imagine that the whole Mayan Spanish Inquisition chunk of this movie was way more robust. Yes. And less of the modern day stuff was. in there? Because the modern day stuff, I'm curious what they would have shed from that. I will say, though, like, between Aronovsky and Matthew Leiboutique, who does the cinematography of this movie, they do a very good job of, to quote, another Atour's movie, making it look like

they did it that way on purpose. You know what I mean? They change the aesthetic of the movie where, Yes, the stuff in Central America is budget, but it also is filmed in a way that is very sort of tightly contained, right? They are, it's not expansive for a reason. It's only expansive when he sees the tree. And even then, the tree is, you know, just in this one little space. In one bubble. In one little bubble. right so um but i think he makes i think the stuff with you know future hugh jackman in the bubble

is really visually striking and they were able to do that without a ton of cg i guess with it's done through basically like microscopes and chemical reactions and that becomes the visual aesthetic of the movie tree of life would also do techniques like that and it makes for a very unique visual experience. So, like, there are some things that I think the movie gained by having to pare down. And that, like, you described it as, like, a tightness, the very, like, narrow focus, the anti-epic feel of all of the Spanish Inquisition stuff. It's hard not to watch this movie and wonder what it was originally supposed to be.

but I think that kind of intimacy, the like anti-epicness of this movie makes it into this kind of weird chamber piece that I'm really kind of into in that way. But you can see why that would frustrate people that the like what is supposed to be the spectacle of this movie, that what you think you're signing up for when you buy a ticket is ultimately not the satisfying thing about that. the movie. But it also, I agree with that. And yet, I think if, again, if you sort of like, if you lock into what this movie's doing, a lot of the movie seems like it takes place within sort of the prison of Tommy's memories a little bit. He kind of, he's a little bit sort of hop-scotching through time, right? Where he's, you know, he's in the space bubble and he's remembering back to moments where

Izzy would be like, it's the first snow, come on out, and he can't, and he, you know, sort of snaps at her because he's too focused on his research trying to save her life. And so then all of a sudden, then it connects, you know, future Tommy, and then

there are also obviously connections to the past, and right, like it all, it's all kind of taking place within the sort of four walls of his memory, which, or his imagination, which is so focused on just this one thing, saving his wife's life, right, that this aesthetic of feeling like the walls are very close, you know what I mean? Even when he's approaching the Mayan temple, it's at night on this very

sort of like narrow path because there are walls or jungle or whatever on both sides. So like there is no expansiveness really at all on this movie. Expansiveness happens in very small ways. He goes on the roof with his wife to go, you know, look at the nebula through a telescope. But even that little roof deck is so tiny and claustrophobic. It's a very claustrophobic movie. I think the most wide open this movie ever really gets is at her funeral. you know what I mean? Yeah, her grave, the final shot of the movie. Yeah, yeah. But again, it all, it works for me. And I can understand why it wouldn't. So the movie then recasts its two leads with Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss, which I think back then felt like more of a downgrade than it would now.

Like, because they cast Vice before she wins the Oscar, right? No, it's after she wins in 05. No, but she would have been cast in the movie, by the best. Well, yes, because she accepts her Oscar pregnant. Right. Married to Darrenovsky. But they were already together also when he cast her in the movie, I believe. I forget that timeline.

I think what I had read was that Jackman pressed Aronovsky to cast vice, and Aronovsky was a little bit hesitant because they were together, which is interesting because, you know, the theme of the movie is so much about, like, you know, losing this woman, and I imagine it would have been, you know, a little bit harrowing to direct this movie and then put your wife and your real-life wife in that role. That is a relationship. Hugh Jackman, who has nine million movies in 2006, including X-Men the Last Yes. Not so last, was it?

The prestige. The prestige. Scoop. Scoop. We can go see Scoop. We could see scoop. Oh, well, we could see scoop. Were you waiting to spring that out?

No, I literally thought of it just now. Oh, well, we can see scoop. Not a lot of people saw scoop. I did. I saw Scoop. Speaking of Scarlet Johansen. I had not seen Scoop. King of Scarlett Johansson in two movies that year.

They were in Scoop and the Prestige together in there. She's great in the Prestige. She really is. And then he did two animated movies in Flushed Away and Happy Feet. Yes. Yeah. A lot of successes and a lot of failures in that year. Like, he really is kind of running the gamut.

And this is the movie that, like, people don't quite know what to take. I think he's tremendous in this movie. I don't know about you. Oh. Do you not? Go on thinking about he's tremendous. I think. this is before, this is like maybe the first heavy lifting acting performance he had to do.

I think he's like right before this incredible in the prestige. He is. I don't think he's very good at all. Same one about interesting. Maybe the, I mean, this rewatch was the first time that I was like, oh, he's maybe holding this movie back. Because you could, you could almost argue that this is the least about his actors, Aronowski, has ever been. been, maybe will ever be, and that, like, the actors matter the least to making this thing work. And I think that's, I think that's largely true. I think the thing that, like,

maybe holds it back from being a masterpiece for me is Jackman, who I don't think is very good. I think he, I don't know, I really locked on to him as, particularly as, like, scientist Tommy alienating his co-workers wearing his reba wig wearing it's definitely you know what it is

it's like if you died Reba's hair black he's that's the job it's also if you died Jean Grey's hair from the second X-Men movie black it's also that it's wait a second

I had something and now the hair sent me because I was like... You like him as the scientist, portion. I do like him as the scientist. I think there is a... Fuck, I had a very specific thing that I was going to say. And then, as always, I get distracted by Hugh Jackman's hair. No, no, it was an important aspect to bring up.

But no, I think there is, there, you know, Oh, I was going to mention they are working in just the darkest lab. I would imagine there's a reason why real life, like, science labs and medical labs or whatever, are lit like, you know, gleaming white apple stores, right? Because, like, I imagine it's pretty important to be able to see and to read, you know, things clearly and whatever. but, like, no, we are going to light this thing by, like, one dying candle in the corner of this office. Whatever, it's moody. It did give the, it gave the vibe of, like, it's a Friday in early December, and everybody just wants to go home. You know what I mean?

Like, that's, that had the feel of what that working environment was. No, I just, I locked into his, his desperation to save her and his inability to sort of admit that, like, Burstyn's character has a good line to him where she's just like, you don't invent a miracle drug overnight. Like, what are you, like, what are you even thinking? And like, it's, he's not being, he's not being rational about, you know, any of this. I do feel like I would say that I don't know if he sells the romance between him and vice as well as maybe he could. I don't know. What are your problems with him? I hear you on that last part because I was wanting a little bit more of that on this rewatch of like, I guess you get it in that balcony scene.

It puts so much of the pressure to sell the relationship on vices' shoulders, which, again, just like makes you kind of feel like, all right, so this is just like dying wife role because she also has to sell the relationship. Here's what I'll say about Jackman, before I forget to, and I don't mean to cut you off. Go for it. There is a version of Hugh Jackman that exists now. That would be much better in this movie. No.

I was going to say the opposite There's a Well, if he gave this performance now, yes But I feel like there's a version of Hugh Jackman That exists now that feels very Fake or phony Or it's the greatest showman guy It's the music man guy

And I understand that this is where he's playing You know, these charlatans or whatever But there is something To him now that I just, even when he's playing Wolverine, I'm like, I don't buy this anymore. I think this is cheesy. I think there is a level of cheese to Hugh Jackman that I am getting increasingly less patient with. It's a lack of vulnerability.

It is, and it's also, yes, it's a lack of vulnerability, but it's also just sort of like, he exists in this sort of like rarefied environment where I don't know there's just there's just it doesn't ever feel grounded and I think it was great to me to watch something like the fountain and being like oh he's experiencing things like anguish and pain and frustration and and all of this and it felt like he was playing a real person again and I couldn't remember the last time it felt like he was playing a real person and maybe for us it's just as two of the only people in the world who saw bad education which he's tremendous in and it's like it really feels like yeah some walls are coming down on a vulnerability scale that it's like well as an actor you can't go back from that unless you do like a full about face right which is what he's done right but the fountain feels more like he's reaching for that. And it's also just like, here's a ton of movies he was in in that year. He could also probably need a break. Yes, yes, yes. Although I'd be

interested, I'd be interested to find out in what order and on what time frame these things filmed. Because I imagine a lot of those had hefty post-production period, certainly X-Men. But anyway, yeah it's a real interesting year it's an interesting this is um because the jackman trajectory too he sort of he comes from basically nowhere i know he had been in things in australia and whatnot but like comes from basically nowhere to get this role at the last minute right he gets cast as wolverine weren't they going with somebody else or am i thinking of lord of godrey scott it was dougray scott Because that's why I wonder sometimes if I'm thinking of the Doug Ray Scott in Lord of the Rings of it, too. That was, I feel like, maybe last minute.

Because they had filmed some stuff with him, right? In Lord of the Rings as Erichorn? You're not the person to talk to Lord of the Rings with. And then so immediately, they're like, new leading man. Boom, you're in Swordfish. Boom, you're in Kate and Leopold. Boom, you're in Van Helsing. and none of those really certainly Van Helsing was a giant flop but like 2006 is when the

autors start to connect with him right because he's in movies with Nolan and Woody Allen and George Miller and Darren Aronofsky all in the same year and I don't know why you don't put Brett Ratner in that list And then, you know, Baz casts him in Australia, and it's just... So good in Australia. He's really, really good. That's a movie that really captures the... And Baz is so good at this.

In capturing an actor who can seem insincere in things and turning that into an advantage, turning that into sort of a larger-than-life sort of archetypal vibe, which I think really, really works. But I think there was a while there was a while there where I think there was a sense of when is Hugh Jackman going to really land something that isn't X-Men, right? Because for as much as the prestige is a hugely, hugely respected and popular thing now, I think at the time, it was, a little bit of a, like,

it's the movie he's making in between Batman's. You know what I mean? And weirdly, I think it's Le Miz. Le Miz kind of, you know, elevates and destroys Jackman's career in a way. You know what I mean? He gets the first Oscar nomination for Le Miz.

It's a big financial success. He's obviously, he's the lead in it, and yet I think a lot of, of the things that people hate about that movie are represented in his performance. I don't think he's the reason why people hate that movie, but the reasons why people hate that movie are present in a lot of his performance, right? The overwroughtness of the singing and the... I think people hate that movie because Tom Hooper and, like, justifiably, because, like, the choice is made for... But that's what I mean. Those choices...

Those choices flow through his character, maybe most prominently. Do you know what I mean? Well, he's the lead. He's the protagonist. Yeah. Yeah. And so then it becomes this sort of like eternal battle of like, is he just going to only ever do Wolverine now? Or can we like convince him every once in a while to do another kind of movie?

So it's just like, you know, Denny Villeneuve's prisoners, which. I really like, and I think was popular at the time, but wasn't, you know, Oscar popular. You know what I mean? And I don't know how to take in Chappie. I don't know how to characterize Chappie. He's Chappie. He's Chappie. He's a punchline.

It's a punchline, you know, and Pan is terrible. And Eddie the Eagle is another sort of punchline. And so, and then it takes another musical to kind of be like, hey, you know, and Maybe that's the thing. Maybe it's Hugh Jackman is just destined to be Wolverine and the leaden musicals. Because, like, Greatest Showman is this giant success. Really, really good for him. I think he's good in that movie in a way that, like, does kind of annoy me about him.

But, like, that's my own little issue, right? That's my own little problem. Hate that movie. I do and don't at the same time. I don't know. I have a very complicated relationship with the Greatest Showman. moment. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun if you watch like four musical numbers in a row and then don't watch the movie. You know what I mean? It's maybe more, it's more fun as a series

of YouTube clips than it is as a movie. I know, I know, I know. We talked about the frontrunner. That didn't really work. You mentioned Bad Education, which is a movie that he's very, very good in that got absolutely knee-capped by the fact that it got acquired by HBO and then put on television. And it had that weird thing where it declared itself as a TV movie before the COVID lockdown

year Oscars where the Oscar was like, you can premiere on TV just this once. And then bad education's like, oh, you can? And they're like, not you. You did it before. You don't count. So bad education still then would get nominated for a bunch of Emmys

and won some of them, and still, I feel like, was, in general, felt like an afterthought, right? Like, what Emmys does it win? It wins. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Did it win, like, TV movie, which is always like the category that people are like... What's going on with this category? I'm working on it. Trust me.

And then he's nominated for Outstanding Lead Actor in a movie, and I think he loses to a year boy twin Ruffalo that year. Oh, God, Ruffalo. I mean, like, Ruffalo gave the performance of his career in that show. Well, he took out Jackman at the knees for that one. So, does anyone remember Reminiscence? No, right? No.

Oh, Reminiscence! Reminiscence was awesome. Okay. Not a good movie, but I loved it. Fascinating. You're the only person I know who has, who... I remember, like, nothing from it, but I remember the feeling of, like, oh, people think this is terrible.

This movie's, like, cool. Follows that up with a movie nobody thinks is cool, which is the sun, which is a movie that everybody involved with that would have been better off not making that movie. The sun coming out at the same time as the whale, like, almost broke me. And then so since the sun, he has only made Deadpool and Wolverine on film at least

Music man was between those two I thought was between those this is the thing is sort of running through this the boy from Oz was around this time right?

Because wasn't that the thing that like Aronovsky said he saw the boy from Oz and then went backstage to talk to Jackman and that sort of connected him with that. I saw him in the boy from Oz

That is a terrible show. Interesting. He, I mean, definitely was a magnetic stage presence in a not good show. It got him the hosting gig at the Tonys for like two years in a row. Which then got him the hosting gig at the Oscars. Which was one of the more underrated hosting gigs ever. Yeah, so the music man was the thing he's done since the sun. And so now he's got this Neil Diamond.

the movie coming up that I'm very excited for. I am excited for this movie, which we have not seen even a production still of, I don't think, at this point. Yes. Christmas Day. We do. No, we've seen a production because there's definitely a shot of the two of them in costume as their tribute band.

I'm pretty sure if you go to the IMDB page for Song Song Song Blue. But he's also in production on the Death of Robin Hood, which I think is going to be, This is 824, but it's... Michael Sarnaski, who directed Pig and the Quiet Place prequel. Yes. Both of which I think are very good. And it's Hugh Jackman, Jody Comer, Bill Scarsgard, who are like... I always can...

I always say you can tell what kind of ambitions... Because a lot of my life is spent combing through people's upcoming sections of their IMDB. And then trying to figure out, like, Is this going to be a big movie, or is this going to be, like, a movie that they just sort of, like, you know, brush aside or whatever? But I feel like casting Jody Comer and Bill Scarsgard in this moment is a sign that, like, no, they're serious about it. Because those are, like, the two top of every casting director's lists at this point are those two actors. So the last thing in the world we need right now is another Robin Hood movie, but I am curious about this one. I agree with both of those statements.

Yes. I can't not be interested to see what Sarnowski is going to do. And the fact that it's the death of Robin Hood. So it's like, I guess it's old, old regret. Is this the Logan of Robin Hood? I hope not. We'll see. Maybe it's secretly a Western. I pulled up this Song Song Blue production still. Truly, what if the S&L, uh, Will Ferrell. Yeah, and Anagastair duo Slade. Whenever we have a live show, this is what we'll be wearing. Wig and all. She's kind of wearing. I'm trying to think of what drag race person I'm thinking of that had that costume.

Is it Thorgy Thor? Didn't Thorgy Thor have an outfit one time that sort of looked like that? Maybe. I'm going to look it up. I'm going to look it up and I'll do a side by side. It's like red with like gold beating. Yeah. Oh, it's very, it's very, I mean, you talk, you bring up Branson, Missouri more than most people I know.

So this definitely has that sort of feel to it. I'm so excited for this movie. Two people who are husband and wife and also a Neil Diamond tribute act, say no more, Craig Brew. Say no more. This is a Christmas Day release. That is how I will be spending my holidays, ladies and gentlemen. Can we finally, at long last, move on to how this movie actually got some awards attention slash, like, one of the things we talk about when we talk about this movie? Yes.

Go for it. Clint Mansell's score. Oh, my God. Globe and Critics Choice nominated. Clint Mansell should have won Best Picture for this score. Like, I don't fucking care. I don't fucking care. the thing it's so it's so you didn't have to go that hard it's so um he freaked it's so

you kind of did though because does this movie work without the score no it doesn't it absolutely doesn't it's one of those things where i do sometimes sometimes i do wonder whether i am enough of a smooth brain dumb dumb that like do i have critical faculties or do i just like movies that, like, use music really well. Because, like, I watch a movie like this, and I'm just like, banger, banger. This is so good. And I'm just like, am I just responding to the score? Is it just that?

I think The Fountain is just a movie you accept or you don't accept. I do think that the people who don't accept this movie would still be like Clintman's score. Well, no, that is definitely true. That is definitely true. And there are definitely movies where people don't like the movie but do like the score. it's now mansell was somebody who wasn't really a film he didn't work on film before he encountered Aronovsky he was in a band he was he's a English guy and was in these like

alt bands or whatever various alt bands and then Aronovsky approached him because he was, you know, introduced by a mutual friend or whatever. And he asked him to do the score for Pi. And then he does the score for Requiem for a Dream, which has in particular a track on that, that sort of leaps, sort of transcends, you know, everything else. And it's used most prominently. It's sort of like, you know, remixed and used in the trailer for the Lord of the Rings, the Two Towers, which is one of the great movie trailers of my lifetime. Really, really tremendous work there. And then was used in, you know, trailers and TV spots. And every once in a while, you'll still see it used for, you know, like, you know, NBC, the NFL on NBC or whatever. Just like, you know, anything. Definitely, like, one of the top 10 scores of this century. Yes, yes. And then, so you imagine it's just like, well, you know, can't top that.

And then Mansell comes in, Mansell calls up the Kronos Quartet. It's like, are you free? We've got a, we've got a, you know, a movie to burn to the ground. And we are going to write this score. it's death is the Road to Oz the track that is most prominent. It's the one that sort of covers all the big climactic sort of moments of the movie up into including the explosion of the star. But the whole score entirely is really, really, really effective. And it ties together, obviously, these three time periods really really well.

It is moody. It is at times sort of wistfully romantic. It is at times very sort of darkly foreboding. And it's, I love it. I listen to it all the time. All the time. One of my very faves. Might be my favorite movie score. Excuse me. Might be my favorite movie score of all time. It's up there. I think that's a good choice. That's a good choice. And, of course, naturally, has never been nominated for an Oscar. Well, I mean, and some of it gets into eligibility things. He was ruled ineligible for Black Swan, right? Which probably would have gotten him an Oscar nomination. Just because of the nature of how that movie was doing well with the Academy. If you look at Mansell's sort of awards tab, he's got a handful, he got nominated for a Golden Globe. for the fountain. We'll talk about it. He got nominated for a critic's choice for the fountain.

It's got a, you know, weirdly the thing that he didn't get nominated for at all anywhere was the Requiem score, which I think is crazy. Yeah. Because even he got like a nomination for pie from the Birmingham Film and Television Festival. Awesome. But the thing that he's gotten most awards attention for is the score for Black Swan, which I do think is interesting because I do think a lot of people just listen to that and are like the music for that movie's amazing and half of the score for that is swan lake is swan lake and the thing that i think it's an adaptive score you know it uses yes you know it's not just straight squam like the original parts of that score are really really good and i think but i do think the fact that it's in like the first half

of the movie that most of his distinct original stuff i'm just going to venture to think that like the Golden Satellites nominated it for the parts of the movie. For not knowing that's what is Swan Lake. Yeah. Like, yes. Yes. Black Swan, which we should mention, is also in IMAX. The weekend after this episode airs.

On my birthday. I will be there. On my birthday. I will be there. Oh, listener, happy birthday to Joe. Listener and tell Joe, happy birthday. Yeah, Black Swan back in IMAX is amazing. Although I do still feel like the ideal place to watch that as where I did is the defunct Lincoln Plaza cinemas where you can see it with a bunch of Upper West Side old people and half of whom did not get it and that's fine.

Well, Black Swan, his, you know, by a long shot, most popular movie, highest grossing movie. Most Oscar successful movie. a movie people will argue about not getting where it's just like what do you mean she danced the entirety of swan lake with a shard of glass in her stomach she was perfect okay she was perfect she said so herself you can the point of black swan is to interpret it both literally and figuratively like my my thing about black swan is i want to cut it into every shot of any movie that has used to people coming to terms with things while watching an opera. Like, I want this to be what...

The 10-second shot of Barbara Hershey. I want this to be what they're watching in Marguerette. I want this to be what Nicole is watching in birth. I want this to be... Do you know what I mean? All of those scenes, I want an intercut with Natalie dancing the Black Swan. That's what I want. Danny Houston just leans over in a...

like, I think she has glass in her stomach. Why is she bleeding? Did she just turn into an iridescent swan? What's happened? Am I, am I, they're wiping off their opera glasses. They're just like, wait a second. Anna Pacan's just like, want to go home. Okay.

What else to talk about in this movie? Yes, so Mansell gets nominated for Ziegolden Globe. The Globes give it to previous episode The Painted Vale, Alexandre Plac. Now, did he get, it was a previous episode, so obviously he did not get nominated for the Painted Vale. He did not. Did he get nominated for anything that year?

Was that the year he was nominated for the queen? Might have been nominated for the queen. Do you remember the winner of this? Is this back-to-back Gustavo Santoyah? Santola. Sure, it sure is winning for Babbel. that movie's only Oscar. Interesting.

And he had won the year before for Brokeback Mountain. Hans Zimmer was nominated for the Globe for the Da Vinci Code that did not get an Oscar nomination. And then Carlo Salato was nominated for a movie called

Nomad the Warrior that I don't remember at all. Remember when Miramax would get their D-tier movies, Golden Globe score nominations? I do. I'm pretty sure this was that. I want to give me a second. Well, I guess it would have been Weinstein Co. at that time. Who knows what's going on with this nomination? You know what? Here's what I'm going to ask of you, Chris, on an honor system. Don't look up the history of Golden Globe Best Original Score Movies, because this is the subject of a future quiz that I'm going to give to you. So don't go. Next time we talk about a movie that got a stray Golden Globe score nomination. I'm going to give you a quiz.

So, like, just don't study. Okay. Listener, hold him accountable. Hold you accountable. We've missed, we've missed quizzes. We have. We still have a Kira Knightley to give. We still have a Shirley.

No, do we have a Shirley to give? Yeah. No, we did that in Susatka, didn't we? No. I definitely, no, it was, no, because it was, we had missed Susatka, and then we were going to miss something the next week. And I was like, no, we are doing this. And I, like, I think it was Carrie Mulligan, maybe, where I, like, just, like, muscled our way into a quiz.

Whatever, we'll figure it out. I did check, this is our fifth Ellen Burstyn movie. So we are one away from Ellen Burstyn Six-Timers. Get ready. What's a... Get ready draft day. You will be... Get ready, the Spitfire Grill.

Honestly? Is she a mad? I think that's Jenna Rollins. Are they both in that? Who's to say? Anyway, he's also nominated for the Critics Choice Award for Best Original Score with a lot of those same people, Gustavo Santolaya, and Hans Zimmer, and that's it. But other new people, Howard Shore for The Departed, who did not get the...

Who were the fucking Oscar nominees? Did not get nominated. The Oscar nominees this year must have been crazy because, oh, good German Thomas Newman did get nominated, right? No, that's a, that got a lone art direction. Is that what it was? Okay. Yes. And then the illusionist wins the critics' choice for Philip Glass.

The illusionist might have gotten nominated. I don't. I think that's at least a cinematography nomination. All right. We're looking this up. We're looking this fucking shit up right now. 2006. The 2006 Oscars were kind of crazy.

guys um yeah yeah all right original score the nominations were thomas newman for the good german uh philip glass for notes on a scandal uh-huh havier navarets for uh pan's labyrinth and then should have won as i said alexander desplaf for uh the queen all losing to gustavo santa lia so yeah i guess that's a lineup that hues closer to the sort of oscar big dogs of that year, the Queen, Penn's Labyrinth, Babel. The Good German is what is going to force us to do that movie as

a Patreon movie and not a main feed movie, of course. That's going to be the most boring episode. That movie is boring. That's why we've not put it on the schedule. It is a very boring movie, isn't it? It's so weird. Boring.

It's so weird that it's a Soderberg movie and there's just like... It's not a Soderberg movie. Oh, the Good Sherman. I'm thinking of the Good Shepherd. No, the Good Shepherd. we're definitely going to do the Good Shepherd. Oh, I would definitely do the Good Germant. I'm always down to watch or talk about Sotoberg.

Oh, that's such a... I agree with you. I fell into the trap. I fell into the trap. The Good Shepherd was also, though, from 2006, and that also got, like, one Oscar nomination. That's the one that got the one Art Direction nomination that I was...

Oh, okay. ...that made along thinking that's what we were talking about. Oh, okay. That makes more sense. That's the one that I'm like, that is boring. The Good Shepherd, the Good German also does feel plausible as an art direction nominee. Yes, the Good Shepherd did get an awesome.

That's the Robert De Niro directed movie. It is boring, but have you considered that it's 167 minutes long? Yes, when I saw that movie, I spent the entire time considering that. That was the only interesting thing to think about. All right, all right. Clint Mancell's score. Just, just, just so great. One of the greats, like.

So, unsurprisingly, maybe the least surprising 51 Metacritic I've ever seen in my life for The Fountain, like right on the line, like right there. Yes, yes. We haven't talked about Vice. So Vice, in between shooting this movie and this movie premiering, wins the Oscar and has a baby. So. With Aaronnowski. With Darren Aronovsky. He is there in the audience at the Oscars by her side when she wins for the Constant Gardner,

an Oscar win that I'm never quite sure how it's aged. I feel like the Constant Gardner is not really a movie people talk about a lot. But I also don't feel like I ever hear people being like Rachel Weiss won for the wrong movie. Yeah, people are always, if that Oscar comes up, they're like, I would not want to take an Oscar away from Rachel Vice, but that's maybe the wrong winner. I think she's great in that movie. Constant Gardner got released a little

early that year. If it wasn't like... It was like Labor Day weekend. It was early fall. It was right before I went to college. I think it's the last movie I saw before I went to college. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. I'm trying to remember what would have been the case for me for that, but I can't. But I remember seeing that movie and being like, because before the

Constant Gardner, Rachel Weiss was not really considered. one of our great actresses. She was in the mummy movies. She was in what was the enemy at the gates and whatever, you know? I don't think...

What was the shape of things? Which, like, didn't really get considered at all. Shape of things was something, like, around this time, was around, like, oh, 3.0.405, something like that. And so the Constant Gardener comes along, and I remember being like, she's fucking great in that movie. And I remember I was sort of like, I was really, really backing her.

And because it didn't seem like, because the constant gardener itself felt like a movie that was really kind of on the fringes, right? People liked it, but they didn't really love it. There was a little bit of a Morelli's backlash happening. Once again, Ray Fines was getting, you know, taken for granted by awards people. but I remember being like, you know what? Like, I think Rachel Weiss should be nominated for an Oscar this year. And I thought I was being very sort of bold in that.

And then she gets nominated for like the first round of precursors. And I was like, oh, cool. Like, good. They didn't forget her. And then she just starts winning everything that year. And I'm like, oh, I guess I'm not the special little snowflake that I thought I was. Like, everybody's on the same age. Well, it was a well-regarded enough movie.

And you have, like, I think if you only have one, no, this is, I'm talking about a completely different year, I was almost going to bring up Babel, but you have Amy Adams doing really, really well, but people are just now learning her name, and that was a movie that was only being recognized for her, even though that's a much better movie than just nominating it for one supporting performance. broke back mountain people still kind of had a good for her thing about Michelle Williams but like the stain of Dawson's Creek they weren't going to really go there Catherine Keener's Roland Capote is very small She's great but and Francis McDormand is the classic fifth nominee that year for North Country I think it's as a counterfactual it's really interesting that Rachel Weiss wins her Oscar over the too great when are they going to win actresses of our current moment, Michelle Williams and Amy Adams, that you could go back in time and be like, well, maybe we should have given

Amy the Oscar for Junebug. And then maybe Rachel is more of a contender for the favorite and we can have that debate or whatever. And then you could also do the same thing for Michelle Williams. Maybe, you know, what if Michelle Williams had won, you know, the Oscar for Brokeback Mountain, which is not out of the realm of possibility. I feel like the critics were really, really behind her that year, and Brokeback Mountain, obviously, was one of the

top contenders for picture director that year. But I think Vice is tremendous in the Constant Gardner. A movie that I should probably go back and watch again. I also know that there was some people had been placing her in lead that year as well, which I think...

Was she one of those that was accidentally placed in the wrong thing with SAG? Was she lead nominated at SAG? She might have been. She might have been. But I definitely... A lead nominated at BAFTA or something. I remember thinking that was a little bit of... That was a little maybe going too far.

Like, it's not... She mostly exists in flashback in that movie. Like, she's not the main character. You know what I mean? People... There can be female... The most prominent female role in a movie can still be supporting guys. Like, it's, you know... Anyway.

So by the time The Fountain hits, this is her, like, Oscar follow-up movie. Not much of a follow-up. She's fine in the movie, but she's literally just suffering wife. She's suffering wife. Yes, yes, exactly. I like the rooftop scene, though. I think that's probably her best scene in the movie. I think she does a good job of sort of imbueing her character with this kind of, she really wants to...

She wants to get Tommy to pay attention to the fact that she is dying and he's not going to be able to prevent it, right? And she keeps sort of giving him reasons to be good with it, talking about how, you know, this person who lived forever through feeding a tree and, you know, the idea that, you know, this dying star could, you know, burst forth into new life. She's trying to get him good with it on a metaphysical level that, like, death does not have to be, we don't have to look at my incoming, you know, impending death as this thing that will destroy you. You know what I mean? Right. Well, and as the story shows, death has its own plan. You know, the Thomas drinks of the tree believing that that is eternal life. And I guess it is a version of eternal life. life because he becomes a bunch of flowers but like he dies painfully and suffering and very suddenly and surprisingly you know much as i imagine being exploded in a supernova isn't great like experientially doesn't feel good but then you become stardust and like joanie mitchell told us we are all stardust so um he's giving new life to whatever the next thing is it's like yeah the

acceptance of death because you're also as an audience member meant to be frustrated with this character that it's like you're kind of ignoring your wife as she's done you have this precious time and you know that you could be having with her and yes you're because you're in denial also donna murphy is quite capable of holding things down at the lab like spend an afternoon with your wife spend an afternoon the mrs astor will take care of things at the lab sir, you're not a gilded age person, are you? I'm catching up on the Gilded Age, and I just watched the season two finale, and it is a hoot and holler. So good. All right, anyway, anything else we want to talk about. What were my notes? Our Friends at the Yoga Award,

Boonewski, the worst foreign director-priced. How do I say boo in Spanish? Yeah, that's stupid. That's stupid. It was not a worst anything. Shut up. I wrote down, the fountain could have been called the tree of life, but the tree of life couldn't have been called the fountain.

Doesn't Jessica Chastain drink from a water fountain or something in that movie? God damn it. God damn it. If that's right, I'm going to be so pissed. I love that we're living in this place of pseudoscience, pseudo-religion, because I believe, well, our contact episode just went up, but it might have been the last thing we recorded as well. So it's like everything's about like interplay of science and religion on this show.

Yeah, Ellie Arrowway would not have been, would not have found Tommy's science to be sound, right? She would have had, she would have used Ackham's Razor to, you know. The lines, our bodies, our prisons for our souls and death frees every soul. Okay, Lana Del Rey. Who is that guy, by the way, the Grand Inquisitor, Stephen McCatty, where have I seen? him before. Because he shows up, he's one of those character actors that's just like in a lot of things. Oh, he was that guy in Watchman.

He was in, well, he was hobo number one in Nightmare Alley. No, what else would he have been in? God, he works a lot. Jesus Christ. How many other Aronovsky movies do we think Open with Bible Quotes? Oh, God. So this, well, what is Mother Open? Is it a Bible quote or is it something else?

It's definitely something. Noah probably opens with a Bible quote. God, this guy played Andrew Borden in the Lizzie Borden Chronicles. He's just one of those actors who's like very familiar. You've definitely seen him in a lot of things. things. He's won four awards. I wonder for what.

Hold on. He is a Gemini Award winner, Canadian. Great. A Genie Award winner, Canadian. Just like, man, all this stuff. Good for Canadian actors. Oh, he was in that movie, Pontypool. There we go.

Creepy movie. Creepy movie. All right. Should we move on to the IMDB game? Yes, let's. Oh, why don't you explain the IMD? game to our listeners. Why don't I? Every week, we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress, and we try and guess the top

four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. All right, how's this going? Are you giving first, or are you guessing first? I'll give first. So I went through the Donna Murphy of it all, actually. Right, I think so.

What did I do? I did, oh, yes. So, right, the Guilted Age. So, of course, Donna Murphy plays Mrs. Astor on the Guilted Age, which has eight bajillion people that I could have chosen from. The season that I just finished watching included Cynthia Nixon's character. Marrying a priest, played by Robert Sean Leonard. So I'm going to give you Robert Sean Leonard, who has one television show and three films.

Is the TV show? Is he one of those ER people? He's not ER, but you're not, you're in the, in a correct ballpark, I will say. Gray's Anatomy. Nope, but that's the ballpark. Well, it's left. Um different network Not NBC

Not ABC CBS No Fox House There it is House 176 episodes

House is like a different kind of thing It's doctors That was the bulk of Yeah but it's like I don't I don't watch that show No I didn't watch that show either

Some bullshit It was house All right three films Um what's the like is he in dead poet society dead poet society dead poet society yes he is he's the one who kills himself right

spoiler we talked about him in much ado about nothing it's a giant ensemble I'll just say much to do about nothing much ado about nothing great so I mean I had two wrong TV shows Yeah, this would be a perfect game with an asterisk if you can get it. I don't think it would be perfect.

No, I agree with you. I don't, I mean, I don't think it's perfect with an asterisk. I think I fairly... Yeah. You got some hints. Another movie that he is in would be... Isn't he gay and something? doesn't he play gay

I mean dead poet society I think that's one of the things We're to infer about his character But also he's played gay a lot Is he not gay in real life None of my business Well, it's all of our business Um

Let's see Yeah Married to a lady All right I guess he just has played gay Frequently enough Um Okay, fine

What do I even know him to be in? Wasn't he in, like, suicide kings? I think you're thinking of Sean Patrick Flannery. Who is powder? Who is powder? What was that movie with Sarah Michelle Geller, where she's a chef? Simply irresistible. Yeah, those are all Sean Patrick Flannery.

All right, so not that. So your year is 1993. Which is the same year as much due about nothing. Yes. Is it like without honors? No, you're thinking of with honors, which is 1994, but that is Patrick Dempsey. But is it a movie like that? Is it like the poster is a bunch of like college kids huddling?

No. 93. I've seen this, right? Yes, you love this movie. Oh. He doesn't show up until the very end of this movie. After we've, like, you know, flashed forward a bit. What's that?

Oh, flashed forward. Yeah. Sort of an epilogue. He's in the epilogue to this movie. What has an epilogue in 93? I imagine this is one of your top five movies of that year, maybe your number one movie of that year. Is it a studio movie?

Uh-huh. I'm guessing it's like a famous director. Yes. It's not one of the two Spielbergs. No. No, he plays the velociraptor. True, true Greatest work

The That was before they started naming the velociraptors in the later Jurassic Park movies you have Stupid Um 1999 1993

1993 Oh it's Age of Innocence The Age of Innocence He plays That's right He's the son Petty Archer, yes, yes. Yeah, probably.

My number one movie. I was going to say, right, probably. Other movies, I feel like he could have been in. He's in Last Days of Disco. He's in that movie tape. You don't talk about the boys when you talk about last days at disco. Who cares about the boys? Well, he's in it.

I'm just saying. What else? He was in Swing Kids, another 1993 movie. The movie you're thinking. of where he's gay is in the gloaming, where he's the, um, he's Glenn Close's son who comes home to die of AIDS? Sure. Classic TV movie. All right. Gimmie. Um, so for you, I went into the Aronovsky stable. We talked a lot about Requiem for a dream. One of his stars of Requiem for a dream is none other than Marlon Wayans.

Marlon Wayans. Okay. No tell. According to Kiki Palmer, the Hot Wayans. He is the Hot Wayans. Have you seen The Heat? He's very handsome. I don't think he's probably not on for the heat. I'm going to say Requiem is one of them. It is not.

Dang. Okay. Is white chicks? one of them? White Chicks is correct. Yeah, okay. All right. White Chicks is on there first. Is Scary Movie one of them? Scary movie is not on his known for. All right, one of my ears. 1996, 2006, and 2009. Okay. Is one of the scary movie sequels, the 06 or the 09? No. Okay

Um 19996 So Huh Is it Is it I'm This might be a movie that exists

Only as a title to you Is it Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood? Thank you for giving the full Christian title to that movie. Is that it? Okay. That is correct. Yeah. All right. 06 and 09. Um, are they, how many of these two are movies where he stars with his brother, Sean? One of them.

Okay. Is it? It is the 06 movie. Right. So. Not white chicks, but... If you're not a chick, you are... A dude? Maybe. Oh, well, I mean, like, if you are not a chick and you acknowledge the gender binary, you are...

A guy. A girl. Or a... A lady. A woman. No. Come back. A man.

Man. what man Radioactive man No Is it like a something man Like like It is blank man It is it blank man?

Is it blank man? Not the movie blank man Fuck Hollow No not hollow man Um Juana man No

Fuck Um Um Juana man I believe was Orlando Jones Yeah it's very very simple it is not complicated it's little man it's little man yeah okay and then oh nine oh nine is the would-be start to a franchise I think this thing made money well it made money because there's another one but then like the next one people were like nope nope

Even though it got even more famous people in it. Interesting. Is it a comedy? No. Is it action? Yes. Is he the star? He's one of the stars.

He is not first build. Marlon Wayans. Is it like comic bookie? Comic, in spirit, yes. But it is not based on a comic. book. I see. I see. Okay. 2009 was Watchman, but he's not in Watchman, and that's also based very famously on a comic book. You maybe don't think that this movie is as far back as 2009.

Oh, it's G.I. Joe. It's G.I. Joe, the Rise of Cobra. Full Christian name, please? The Rise of Cobra. Yes, that's right. He plays ripcord or something like that. Yeah, I do kind of forget that it was, that it was around that time. Yes. yeah no one wanted that well i did but not in that way they just did it wrong they did it they did it wrong anyway all right um fun cool i love the fountain the fountain that's our episode go watch the fountain again everybody yeah huh go watch the fountain again everybody it's go listen to that clintmansell school yeah man run through a fucking wall uh maybe caught stealing will be something more than it appears to be.

I suspect it probably will. It looks fun, if nothing else. Exactly, exactly. You saw in those trailers, though, that they censored out Austin Butler's bulge. They debulged him? Yes, they did. But... What are we doing here?

What are we doing here? But I imagine the bulge is still there in the movie, so a reason to see it. Do you think they did that on purpose to create the story so that the story then would be that Austin Butler has a bulge that's being kept from you? And now you need to see the movie to see the bulge? we're on a different level here we're through the looking glass here people sheeple

sheeple in league with the reverse vampires that's my favorite millhouse thing one of my favorite millhouse things that's our episode if you want more this had Oscar buzz you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscurbos.com please also follow us on Instagram

at this had Oscar buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz Joe where can the listeners find more of you You can find more of me at Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, redispelled R-E-I-D. I also have a Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore that is called Demi Myself and I that you can find at patreon.com slash demipod. That is D-E-M-I-P-O-D.

And you can find me on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Chris V. File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for our fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Kevin Mevius for their technical guidance from time to time. and Taylor Cole for a theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcast visibility. So five-star reviews are the road to awe.

That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Thank you.