This Had Oscar Buzz - 358 – The Light Between Oceans

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Listeners who remember our The Place Beyond the Pines episode will remember that this is a highly pro-Derek Cianfrance podcast. As his latest Roofman makes its TIFF world premiere, we’re looking back at his most recent theatrical release, 2016’s literary adaptation The Light Between Oceans. The film starred Alicia Vikander and Michael Fassbender as a post-WWI couple whose isolated life … Continue reading "358 – The Light Between Oceans"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hacks and French. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. What's your name? Lucy.

It was lovely to meet you. Hi. Hi. My sister had a terrible tragedy. Her husband and their baby daughter were lost at sea. You would have been your girl's age by now. I have to tell people It's her mother

I'm her mother Someone knows that my girl is alive It'll be safe I'll protect you I promise Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast The only podcast with tickets to see Candy Bliss At Hamburger Mary's at the end of the month Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz

We'll be talking about a different movie That Once Upon a Time had lofty Academy Award aspirations But for some reason or another it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my telltale silver rattle. Chris File. Hello, Chris.

Tinty tiny rattle. I understand you probably don't need tickets to see things at hamburger marries. I understand that, but like it made the sentence work. I can't even remember what we did last week that someone was named Candy Bliss. Whoopi Goldberg in the deep end of the ocean. The other ocean.

Because what are we doing here today? We're closing the loop. We're closing the loop on family, trauma, dead guy in a boat. It all comes back to like... Baby raised by the wrong family. Like, I forgot how many similarities there are between the deep end of the ocean and the life between oceans. It's crazy.

Yeah, especially doing them back to back. I was like, oh, maybe could have spaced this out. We kind of were like, well, let's finally do this. We thought it would be a gag. We thought it would be a gag to put them back to back. Back, yes. Starts with the deep end. Yes.

The deep end of what? Tilda Swinton, dead guy in a boat. Yes. The deep end of the ocean. Family swap movies, stolen child kidnapping, accidental kidnapping. Yes. The light between oceans.

Dead guy in a boat. Intentional kidnapping. But like we're supposed to like them. All family drama related. Yes. Yes. A small trilogy. of sorts. Spanning continents, spanning decades. Spanning books. Spaning books. That's true. Yep. Yep. Oprah did

not recommend this one. The deep end is based on a short story. That sounds about right. That sounds about right. Yeah, lots going on. I totally go out of, listen, I have long-term memory. I do not have short-term memory. I can't remember what we did last week, but I can't remember things from two decades ago. I do remember seeing the light between oceans. And I certainly remember this being a very advanced type movie. Like, this was definitely a very, like, coming down the pike, everyone was like the light between oceans, man, like, keep an eye on that.

And I forgot just how thoroughly it got dumped. And the circumstances around it, the fact that it was like the last movie of the Disney Dreamworks deal, the last Touchstone Pictures movie ever. Which probably has a lot more to do with the dumping of this movie than the quality of it? I think if it had been a better movie, I think if it had been a movie where people were like, we got to put this into the Oscar race, this is going to be a big deal. I think they would have cared more for it. I don't think they would have dumped it quite that.

Because 2015 was when the anticipation would have been high for this movie. And then we never hear anything about when it's getting released. And then 2016, it's kind of like, do we have a problem movie on our hands? But it's really the studio closed down. Well, I don't think this is a good movie. I have a lot to defend about this movie. It might be an interesting conversation. It could be an interesting conversation.

And you know we like interesting conversations. But, yeah, this was definitely a movie where on paper, I think a lot of people thought this had the goods. And then almost immediately in retrospect, I remember being like, now why did I think that exactly? Because I think this was maybe the movie that finally kind of opened my eyes to the idea that like things that seemed like Oscar Buzzy stuff

in the 80s and 90s aren't necessarily Oscar Buzzy anymore. Not even the 80s and 90s and like the odds if this movie had come out a decade prior I think it would have had a much better shot. It's almost like if it might have been better received in 2015 anyway

because in that long delay to release is kind of when something like this becomes fully 100% Passet. Like there is no taste for this. I'm just trying to think of like when the last time a Best Picture nominee was

this kind of like quiet and literary and sort of like soft romance like moral dilemma at the center. And now I'm going to sort of do the thing that I always hate

when I do, which is go through this in real time. It's obviously like very different subject matter, but like how far from this is the reader? I think this is a better movie than the reader. I think I think the Holocaust is such an Oscar-friendly genre. But yeah,

I guess that's not a bad comparison point, but like I mean stuff, you know, domestic dramas really shifted towards content. temporary stuff like Winter's Bone. And I just, I think the idea of the lush costume drama really, I can't think of when the last, like even stuff like the imitation game is there's, you know, there's social commentary there as facile as I thought it was. Today we call them

lighthouse. Right. But there's nothing, there's nothing really to hang your hat on with with something like the light between oceans in terms of like... It's also not really a lush costume drama. It's kind of drab and I think intentionally so,

though I do think the movie looks absolutely beautiful. There's maybe too many shots of like open ocean vistas. Except those are maybe my favorite parts of the movie, the parts that don't deal with this absolutely like dumb,

dumb story that we're hanging all of these visuals on and these performances on. I really... It seems to be a major sticking point for a lot of people. Maybe it's because I had already read the book prior to seeing the movie. Here's a

comparison point. Atonement. Now, atonement has the benefit of World War II. So you have a lot of really high stakes. Obviously, there is a World War I kind of aspect to this, but it's very much part

of Michael Fastbender's backstory. It's the foundation for both of these characters, their love for each other. They've both gone through very different traumas, him as a soldier, her as losing how many brothers, like three or four brothers, she says? I think she says. But I think without, I think what this movie is is like what you would get if you did atonement without the sort of bravora, you know, scenes of like the London Tube and the Dunkirk Beach and all that kind of stuff. you know, just sort of dealt with it as a moral dilemma on its own. And I don't think Atonement gets nominated for Best Picture if it doesn't have those aspects to it. I agree. I don't know. I guess I've seen a number of people call the plot and machinations of this

movie dumb. I guess I have a lot of, maybe I just have a lot of tolerance for melodrama in that I'm Like, I've definitely seen dumber melodramas than this. I guess here's what I will say. I should, I should, I'll take back dumb and say irritating to. I find, I found the whole plot of this movie deeply irritating. And I'll sort of get into that when I, when we go along. But, um, not my kind of story. And, and maybe I just don't have that kind of foundation in appreciating melodrama in the same way.

Um, or maybe I just don't like Alicia Vincander. Well, I mean, I think the biggest problem with this movie is casting. I don't really think Fassbender is right for this role. I don't think he really brings anything to it, except, you know, his eyes, which are always look like, you know, a haunted 19th century photograph, you know? Like, that's what that man always looks like to me. But I don't really think he's a fit. I think Vecander isn't bad, but isn't doing anything into it.

And I think on a certain level, C in France is right to make this about their relationship and, you know, the, you know, C.N France is the right choice. Spielberg, like, handpicked C in France to make this movie. And I think the type of, obviously, Blue Valentine, the very intense and, you know, locked in. emotional stakes of that movie make him right for something that is at basically its core a marital drama and then you have placed beyond the pines which is all about this like biblical level of consequence and uh you know consequences and guilt and you know inherited traumas uh but i don't know there's there's too much montage in this movie to really kind of get there. I almost think, especially because you know I love, I know this much is true. His miniseries also an adaptation from the Wally Lamb book.

Trying to fit this into a two-hour movie is almost like we can't get to the emotional depth that we need to, to make this great. I think one of the things that Cian France is really good at, though, is scope, right? I think he can

sort of, you know, convey something that, like, something is bigger than the characters that were, you know, maybe seeing. And I agree with you about Fassbender. I don't, I, Vecender might be good casting for this, but I just, like, she's just not my favorite actress. And I think the best performance in the movie comes from Rachel Weiss, even though, and I am hesitant to say this because I know that, like, actresses get, like, put out to pasture too soon, sometimes, and I certainly would not advocate that for Rachel Weiss, she's too old for this role. I think she projects so much older than Vicander. Like, they are, there's 17 years between them in real life, and it's not like they don't look

it. And I think Rachel Weiss being in her mid-40s, making this movie where she lost a baby two years ago, especially at this time in the, like, early 1900s, where like, that was just not, you know, a thing. And it screws with the dynamic a little bit, where all of a sudden Rachel Weiss becomes, like, has to sort of, like, decide how to punish this child, the child being Elisa Vekander, you know what I mean, and how to sort of, you know, adjudicate this stuff.

And I think ideally you want these two women to be a little bit more on equal footing to have more of a of a moral dilemma there between them. I don't know. I don't know. And like you can understand why casting these three people. I think vice is good too. But aside from your concerns, it's just one of those things where nobody's doing anything wrong.

no one's making the wrong choice. It's just no one's making the interesting choice. Yeah. Well, and the movie kind of hints at a lot of things that don't really end up coming to fruition. Vise's character comes from her. She's the daughter of the wealthiest person on the mainland in this area. Certainly that seems to play into it, but like we don't really see that play out. Is Vekander's family, like, decided. decidedly less, you know, prominent in this town, is that a reason why? She sort of gives lip service to the idea that, like, they would never let a couple on the living in the lighthouse adopt a child. And this is the reason she gives for why they have to, you know,

abduct this, this baby, which is a decision, you know, led by trauma. It happens the same day or within the same like 24 hour span that she's had a miscarriage and it's not her first which makes it narratively convenient that like this you know this baby literally washes up on their shore um but it's also one of my least favorite tropes in movies which is baby madness which is you know a mother driven so mad by grief that she you know can do these you know horrible, make these horrible decisions and, and, you know, I find it to me... Well, and you also have it with VICE's character that is, like, complete devastation from... Right.

But that at least, that's grief. Like, that's grief, right? I think that's fine. I think this idea just, like, you know, now Alicia Vecander is, you know, has no morals anymore because she's, like, driven mad by, you know, miscarriage, two miscarriages. It's one thing that I think the movie is too expedient with and doesn't get as well as the book that, you know, the isolation of living as they have to, guarding this lighthouse. Yes. And, you know, because it's the harrowing scene in the movie where she has her first miscarriage and she's effectively alone in a storm because he's up in the lighthouse and she's just like in their house, you know. Yeah. The second miscarriage is completely harrowing, too, and it's just the sounds of their voices, sort of screaming. And he's, you know, screaming, you know, what, you know, what should I do? What, you know, and she's just saying, you know, stop this from happening. And that all is, you know, obviously, I think Cian France does a good job of sort of depicting that. But again, if all of that exists just to give her character a permission slip to, you know,

decide to, you know, make the active decision to steal a baby. Like, you know, I mean, like, I think the idea that they thought this baby was an orphan is pretty transparently. Like, they know that, you know, babies have two parents, you know? So, uh, yeah, I don't like it. This very blonde baby. And there's a shot where they're holding the baby and the family's all around. And they smartly cast nothing but brunettes, like, dark brown, hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This, like, light, blonde baby. Right. Well, and, like, that Germans' genes must have been real strong to, you know, overpower the jet-black magnificence of Rachel Weiss's hair color. So, yeah, I think that's another thing where they sort of, like, I guess it's interesting, and I imagine in the book, they dig into it more, the thing about Rachel Weiss and her German husband and the discrimination. that they face and he was essentially like driven into the sea and that's why he ended up in a boat with his baby or whatever um by the locals but which also i put this in my file of like australia bad like i don't want to write like australians are australians are hardcore um but also maybe cast an australian lady or two in your movie about

Australia. It's filmed in Australia. Fastbender, you know, is supposed to be an outsider, but like Vekander, Swedish, and vice is very English. And it doesn't, there's so many Australian actresses. You know what I mean? There's so many of them. Oh my God.

I don't know. I don't know. I have a lot of patience for this movie and. I wish I did. Movies that are like this. And also just like, I do think it fits in, even if it's his safely least successful movie just on its own terms, I do think it fits in thematically with the rest of his work too. And in that way, I think he's throughout, you can see him elevating this by bringing in like his usual fascinations and like giving this. emotional, like, almost religious weight to it.

It's not as successful at doing that as, like, Place Beyond the Pines is, but, you know, you just imagine some, you imagine a Morton Tildom making this, and none of that's there, and then, yes, I do think it's not a good movie, but this, I think, is a passable movie. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely don't like it as much as you. do um i don't have any well that's not necessarily i'm watching this movie last night and i'm just like i am getting mad at this movie so maybe i i it wasn't quite so benign um to the point where at the end i'm literally just like telling saying shut up to alexander displea score

over the end credits or is like fully it's so goopy seasides for him it's not yeah i don't like it um much distinct about it i mean i would credit adam arcapa's cinematography in this movie It's very beautiful. It's very beautiful cinematography. I really like it. And I do, and I like Derek C. and friends, too, and I don't want to sort of, like, I think he's done in by, I can't, this book just sounds unbearable to me. Like, genuinely, it sounds unbearable. The book's better than the movie. Okay. I will believe you. I will absolutely believe you. I just like the whole, just the story itself, I'm like, I have no, I would never, I would never choose to read this book. You know what I mean? Like, I would never. This is never a story I would pursue. But anyway, I did think of Blue Valentine. I tried to think of Blue Valentine more so than Place Beyond the Pines when I saw this movie.

Because obviously, Place Beyond the Pines is so much about parents and children that Blue Valentine is a story about sort of a destructive couple. And the thing about the light between oceans is they're not really portrayed as a destructive couple. and yet every decision they make, they seem to spend a lot of the movie kind of passive-aggressively trying to influence one another. I think she, and maybe not even, like, through active choice. But, like, she convinces him to go along with taking the baby

because, and she sort of just, like, just really leans on his sympathy for her and what she's just been through to get to take the baby. And then he, after he decides to take the blame for it at the end, then kind of writes this letter to her where he's like, yes, I'm throwing my life away, but I'll be fine, darling. Don't worry about me. And then she, of course, comes running to the boat. And then she's like, no, you know what I mean? And then she confesses. And it just feels like these two characters, I want to throw them in a rowboat and just sort of like sit down. them off to sea. I just don't like either one of them. I really don't. And that is genuinely, I think when you get to that point in the movie, I think you just have to cut your losses as far as I'm concerned. Like for me, as a viewer, like, that's where I'm just like, you know what,

I'm watching a movie about two main characters who are meant to be sympathetic, and I can't stand either one of them. And so, like, there we have it. And sometimes that happens. And you just have to sort of chalk it up to whatever. I don't know. I understand. I understand. It's just not my experience watching these characters. I do think that they're characters who like every action that they do is defined by previous

trauma. Yes. And maybe that's not, I mean, we're watching a melodrama, but maybe that's not how human beings always react. You know, maybe there's something else to define them by than that. But then again,

see in France has kind of done that I don't I don't want to be so reductive about his other things but like that's not that is the lens that his characters have been viewed through in things that I think are masterpieces that he's made like I know this much is true um even if they're not fully defined by that it is the like active vantage that it you know explores those characters from yeah yeah Yeah. And I think he sort of makes a nod towards the end of the movie to the idea of sort of what we came around to in the deep end of the ocean, which is this idea that, like, at some point, a child becomes lost to you. You know what I mean? Yes. And Rachel Weiss kind of, you know, admits that in that conversation she has with Alicia Vakander, where she's just like, this child does not, you know, seem as her mother, which I think is, I think it's then interesting that the movie ends. with her, with Weiss actually raising the child. And then we sort of yada yada into the future where it's Karen Pistorius all of a sudden playing the adult version. And I'm like, oh, but that's kind of maybe the interesting thing to me that we kind of yada yada over is how Rachel Weiss sort of became this girl's mother again. You know what I mean?

And I certainly wouldn't have wanted the movie to, you know, belabor itself even longer. But I'm like, oh, no, this is the part where I would actually be in. interested in like seeing like oh like is it just that like she has the the resources to have a horse and land on which her father can gallop system too yeah really tom and isabel do not she sure doesn't live on a lighthouse island yes um alone but they have this family like vkander has this family and you wonder at some point where it's just like does this lighthouse job mean that much to you dude that you like you can't just move back to the mainland um and and have a support system to raise your child but i don't know

i think sometimes the movie sort of boxes these characters in maybe a little artificially i don't know i don't know i don't know i like that you like this movie i don't want to like i don't like i'm not here saying i love this movie i just no i i think this movie is yeah fine and i don't want to argue your way out of it. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, like, I think there's very clear flaws. I think the biggest flaws are casting. And there is a, it does,

this is the type of movie that we will never, ever hear if there was behind the scenes, like, Strife, Goss or, uh, turmoil in the edit room between studio and director. And we'll never hear that because this movie, functional. doesn't exist, you know? Yeah, it's basically scrubbed and no one saw it in theaters to begin with. And then the studios shut their doors as soon as it was over.

Right. Yeah. At best, you might find a DVD at a used bookstore or the like. I do wonder if there was some type of sanding down of the edges because I think that's why you hire

C in France, but then this is, also a very I don't want to say it's like afraid of the horrific stuff about this story the way that I've said of recently for other movies on this show. Yeah. But there is

a like linen commercial aspect to this movie. There is. That feels like it's trying to make the more horrific parts of this story more palatable. Yeah. Yeah. go so deep on traumatic shit. The other thing that I think of with this movie is apparently Spielberg read the book or something like Spilberg was in whatever way attracted enough to this movie to buy the rights to it, to acquire the rights to it.

And then he was the one who suggested Derek Cian France after seeing Blue Valentine. and that kind of thing, these kinds of stories always fascinate me because I'm like, I want to crawl into the brain of Stephen Spielberg and I want to be like, what was it about Blue Valentine that made you be like, this is the guy that I want for my literary, like, melodrama set in the middle of the sea, you know? Well, I mean, I kind of get it because... I kind of get it too, but like I want to like talk to Spielberg about it.

Like, I do think it's, it's complex emotional terrain, but it is very easy to see the incredible, I mean, like, you can argue that this is the movie they made, but the very boring, not at all character-interested costume drama version of this movie, right? And so what do you do? you get the director who makes the intense marital drama about two very interesting characters and about human behavior and you get them to do that within this context. So I get it because I think there could have been, if there's going to be a good movie from this material, it's going to be someone who's focusing on character and relationship,

not on costumes. It just makes you think, like, in, you know, in the eyes of a filmmaker or sort of like a powerful producer like Spielberg, he knows the like, he knows what he's looking for so specifically that he can look past any kind of sort of surface, you know, incongruity or whatever. And as exactly right, he's like, I like what this character, what this director brings out in terms of, you know, very specific sort of. of like character interaction and, you know, complicating a, you know, a plot in that way. And he can see a movie like Blue Valentine and draw the line to something like the light between oceans. And I don't know, I just find that a little fascinating. Again, whatever. Well, because I want to get into, I do want to get into sort of our thoughts and feelings on the actors, but that feels like a post-plot description discussion.

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does. Excellent. All right. We are going to be talking about, we are already talking about. We will be talking about more, The Light Between Oceans, the 2016 movie written and directed by Derek C. and France based on the novel by M.L. Stedman, starring Michael Fastbender, Alicia Vikander, Rachel Weiss, Brian Brown, Jack Thompson, other such folk, distributed by the Walt Disney Corporation through their Touchstone Pictures banner. This would be the final Touchstone Pictures film, the final movie. of the Disney DreamWorks deal that had been in place for several years, premiered on September 1st, 2016 at the Venice Film Festival, and then went wide in the United States on September 2nd, 2016. If you want to, if you're interested in knowing how dumped this movie got dumped, that they essentially were like, we don't want to premiere, we don't want to pony up. to premiere this movie. So we're going to use the Venice Film Festival as

our premiere party and then dump it wide across the United States. It's still a bit surprising that it was selected for Venice competition. I think it probably speaks well of San France, but as a reputation you know. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, they got those stars

probably on a red carpet too. That matters to Venice. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, definitely feels like a dumping ground, especially when it's like, well, they Labor Day Weekend. It also got to tell your ride rather than opening, but didn't. It's definitely a sign that they knew how the movie would be received.

It opened, like I said, it went wide and it did not make very much money. It opened at number six opening weekend on September 2nd, Labor Day Weekend, 2016, to $6.179 million behind the second week of Don't Breathe, the fifth week of Suicide Squad, the third week of Coup. Bo and the Two Strings good movie, the fourth week of Pete's Dragon, good movie, and the fifth week of sausage party, no comment. Not the original Pete's Dragon, which is also a lighthouse movie. Oh, my God, look at that. Helen Reddy, Candle on the Water, baby.

I haven't seen the original Peens Dragon since I was like a child. I haven't seen anything from the original Pete's Dragon that's not Helen Reddy singing Candle on the Water. I should go and look up that, I should look up that song. I listen to it. Okay, God who likes Helen Reddy right here. Checking in. Speaking of checking in, I've got Stopwatch ready for your 60-second version of the plot of The Late Between Oceans, a film that spans 135, I would say, long minutes. So get ready to condense.

Are you ready to begin? Yeah. Do so now. All right, so we're following Tom, who is a World War I veteran in Australia. and he takes up a position as a lighthouse manager, whatever you want to call it. Meanwhile, in the town, he falls in love with Isabel. They end up getting married and they live alone on this island. She unfortunately suffers multiple miscarriages and then one day a dead guy in a boat washes up with a baby

and they decide we must raise this baby and tell no one that this dead body is here. Flash forward a few years and they go back to the mainland and visit Facebook. family and the actual mother of this child is spotted by Tom and he's leaving her clues essentially to say, your baby's not dead because he's feeling very guilty when he sees her grief. Anyway, these clues all amount to him being arrested for the kidnapping of this baby, but not only the kidnapping, they accuse him of murder of her former husband. And meanwhile, he's like, I'm just going to take the fault for this because I feel so guilty about what I've done. In the very last minutes, they, or Isabel runs to the boat that they're taking him away and says, it's not true.

I forced him to keep the baby. And then they are, of course, separated from their baby who's reunited with Rachel Weiss, it's real mother. Flash forward to the future when Isabel has died and Tom is living alone and their former baby come and bring her own baby. and they can kind of establish a relationship. Isabel wrote her a letter saying, we always loved you and always wanted you, the end. 36 seconds over, and that's fine by me. The rare 60-second plot where most of it is the ending of the movie

and not me struggling to get past the first 15 minutes. You did mention, you called him a lighthouse manager, which I think is very funny because it makes it sound like he is keeping, like, the schedule for the kids who have to work at the lighthouse. and whatever. I think he's a lighthouse keeper. I think that's the term a lighthouse keeper, but

Lighthouse manager. Knocked up. Doorman, doorman, Lighthouse manager. I would like to speak to the lighthouse manager, please. The other thing that I thought of, though, was the idea of this sort of, you know, seaside town and

something washes ashore, and it changes everything. Rachel Weiss already did this with Swept From the Sea, if you recall. 1997's Swept From the Sea, a movie that exists... A movie that exists as a VHS trailer and nothing else. I feel like I saw that trailer on, like, several VHSs. And I just remember it in the trailer that Kathy Bates is in a wheelchair. chair on a boat that they like carry her from the boat to the mainland in in the chair anyway um okay so we've talked a little bit about Derek C and France we'll certainly talk about it uh talk about him

more I want to get though from you how do you feel about both Michael Fastbender and Alicia Vecander individually as actors um if not necessarily like as a still married couple loathees many years later. Thassbender has a number of performances I really, really like, including this year in Black Bag, one of the best movies up this year. We should not stop talking about Black Bag. It's very good.

It's very good. He's just one of those. He got the Jude Law thing done to him, too, where it's like, we put you in so many movies. We ask you to be a leading man. fast before audiences have maybe bought into you being a leading man, and then everybody gets sick of him, and then I think, therefore, unfair to him as an actor. Well, so I want to sort of track that, because he is very much like, all of a sudden, he's the hot ticket in town very quickly, where he does Steve McQueen's hunger, wins a Bifa award for it, then Andrew Arnold's Fish Tank. And then that same year as Fish Tank, he's in Inglorious Bastards, where a lot of folks in the United States, if you hadn't seen hunger and you hadn't seen Fish Tank, you obviously saw Inglorious Bastards. And he really, really pops in that movie. Like, that is a movie that shines a big old spotlight, a big old star-making spotlight on Michael Fastbender is Inglorious Bastards. I think he's really, really good in that movie. And then so I think at that moment, everyone's like...

Yes, we will make this happen. Yes, you will be our new Magneto. He manages to, like, slide on past the house fire that is Jonah Hex, where he's like, oh, oh, sorry, you're not going to get tagged with that. Like, you can have your fun, Josh Brolin or whatever. And then, yeah, 2011's the big sort of, like you say, the Jude Law year, where he's in shame, Jane Eyre, X-Men First Class, Haywire, a dangerous method. and I think like one other movie that I didn't even mention. But shame is the one he gets like the proximate like awards buzz for. He gets the best actor from Venice.

He's a Globe nominee. He's a BAFTA nominee. He wins L.A. film critics even though they like, they add on Jane Eyre and X-Men and Dangerous Method to the award. But like he won that award for shame. Like they didn't really, didn't need to tack on anything else. and then ultimately this was one of those years

where people were like don't get too excited about shame it's not going to happen and I was like you people are dumb and you don't know what you're talking about and I hate you in your ass face and they were right and I was wrong and the exact same thing happened

that same year with Tilda Swinton and we need to talk about Kevin and I remember thinking that was such an indictment I remember thinking like God Oscar voters you all suck like not nominating those two performances because they were off-putting movies or whatever, like, shut up. But shame is very divisive.

I do think it is very interesting that we're having the Fast Bender conversation for the light between oceans and we've never done shame. Do you- Shame? Shame is unpleasant to watch. I was going to say, I kind of don't want to do shame because I don't want to argue about shame and I have a feeling you're like, you don't like that movie very much. No, I'm pro-shame. Oh, okay. Why would you think I don't like that movie? I don't know.

I thought I caught a vibe at some point, and I was just like, hmm, I don't know. Well, then if you like it, then let's do it. I don't think I've ever been down on a Steve McQueen movie. I mean Blitz, but, like, I would even still defend a lot of them. Blitz is at least interesting. Like, Blitz is maybe not great, but Blitz is interesting. I think he's wonderful in that movie. I think that movie, a lot of people didn't really want to wrangle with that movie, so they instead sort of laser focused in on his giant dong. And they were just like, well, that's the thing we're going to talk about is that Michael Fastmender has this giant penis and good for him. And then I think some other people sort of focused in on, and I would say not incorrectly, the thing where this movie is so sort of,

sexually adventurous and then ultimately leans on this really tropey thing of like he hits rock bottom when he kisses a man and engages in in gay sex and it's just like that's not even the rock bottom of the movie though like that's why I think that read is wrong because that's like the midpoint of the movie I don't think it's entirely wrong I think I think that is a I think that's McQueen sort of leaning on a cliche in a way that I don't love. I still like the movie. That's not unfair.

But anyway, shame, he doesn't get the Oscar nomination for shame because clearly we had to make room for George Clooney and the descendants and fucking, I've not seen... He was a big... They weren't making room for Clooney. It's just, we don't like that movie. Right, no, I know. He was the frontrunner, rest of it.

They were making room for Damien Bashir, but I haven't seen that movie, so I can't cast aspersions on it. Damien Mishu's great in that movie. Better than Fast spender in shame? I'm sure there is somebody that I would be like, we're making room for this person that you haven't mentioned in that best actor lineup. I just can't remember who it is.

Oh, Jean-Dur-Dend, we don't need to do that. But we did. We did need to do that that year. So anyway, then he sort of, the career becomes a little bit more, sort of, maybe kind of scattershot, I don't know, where it's like, he's in a movie like, Prometheus. He's the best part of Prometheus. He's the best part of the other alien movie that he does. But those movies...

I like both of those movies. But they are culturally disappointing. Like, neither one of them hits the way... Yeah, they're for freaks. Like, it's not... You know, they're the alien movies where... Yeah, like I said, they're for freaks. It's Ridley Scott being on one in both of those movies. And it's no wonder that he's like, whatever. I'm just going to churn out

slop now. I tried, and you guys hated it. I like Covenant a good bit better than Prometheus, even though I think Covenant has the problem that everybody tells me is not a problem that I should shut up, but I'm like, everybody in Covenant is far too stupid. Even within the bounds of that movie. Even within those parameters, even within those parameters, they're just too stupid. I think they're probably more stupid in Prometheus. but I do think Covenant is about maybe 10 times more interesting than Prometheus is.

Prometheus really leans on that whole like, you know, these are our gods, these are whatever, and it's just like, whatever, like snooze. Covenant, I think, is more interesting because Covenant is essentially just like Fastbender in the dual roles and also being like, what if I like really fuck with shit? Like, what if I, like, really, really screw with people? And that's really fun. So, anyway, yeah, he's, like, he gets the Oscar nomination for 12 years of slave, which is him, you know, working with McQueen again.

But, like, it's the counselor. And I know you really like the counselor, but, like, there's no universe in which the counselor. But there's no universe in which the counselor is, like, a good career step for FastBender. Anyone involved? Frank, I think, is really good. like nobody saw Frank. He gets a beef a nomination, so that's fun. Frank, I definitely remembered as coming out

earlier than it does because he's when that movie is in theaters he's already an Oscar nominee and I did not remember it that way. Slow West is another one that I think is a good movie that was just like not seen by anybody. Then he gets the nomination for Steve Jobs. Given

the competition that he had in his category that year, I do think he was the rightful winner of that Oscar and he doesn't get it. He also gets a beef nomination that year for Macbeth, a movie I haven't seen. I've not seen the Michael Fastbender, Marion Cotter, McBeth. Cochard's good. Fastbender's not. I mean, everything is operating. That Macbeth is fine. It's fine. It's not really worth anyone's time. I think that was kind of the assessment of that movie. It's not bad, but like, you have better

things to do with your time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 2016, he's just working a lot. He's in like all these X-Men movies. He makes on the heels of Macbeth, he makes Assassin's Creed. Those are both Curzel movies, right? Yes. Yeah. And then the Light Between Oceans in 2016. 2017, he does Alien Covenant, the Snowman,

Mr. Policeman, and then Malik's song to song. He does the final, his final check-in at the X-Men factory with Dark Phoenix, and then he goes away. And it's like, oh, was he just, like, making TV shows? Like, no, he just, like, goes away. And he, you know, he and Vakander start their family.

The comeback would have been next goal wins, but that was its own thing. Was its own thing. But that was initially supposed to come out in 2020, right? So that would have been the bridge movie. That would have been, like, the year after Dark Phoenix, and it wouldn't have seemed so long that he was gone. I really like him and David Fincher's The Killer. I really like The Killer in general.

I think that's a very, very good movie. He has sort of a, I imagine a supporting role in Neacap. I never got around to seeing a kneecap. I was waiting for it to get Oscar nominated and then it didn't. And then Black Bag, which we both really liked and we both think he's really good at. So I think he kind of falls into that Clive Owen bucket of like, because they kind of tried it with him as a leading man and it didn't work, there is this sense of him as like lesser than in the pantheon of sort of leading actors in Hollywood.

And yet, and there was also the thing that came out about allegations from his first wife or a previous girlfriend, I think it was a previous girlfriend, where there was physical abuse and sounded like he had issues with the drink, if nothing else. Addiction issues at the side. And then he and Vekander kind of just like go away. They don't, like, she doesn't stop making movies either, but like, they really do, like, kind of step out of the spotlight for a good little bit. And I don't know if the film culture kind of knows what to make of either one of them

at this point. You know what I mean? Right. And then, like, you look at her career. And it's a lot more, sort of, it's a smaller span where, like, she kind of, somewhat similar to Fastbender, actually, sort of like, she becomes a thing kind of right away, where all of a sudden, 2012, she's in a royal affair, which gets an Oscar nomination for international feature. And then in Anna Karenina. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, new thing, fun new thing. She's so great in Anna Karenina.

I don't think there's a bad performance in that movie. There isn't. There isn't. She's great. A lot of people really did not like Aaron Taylor Johnson. I think he's kind of perfect for that role. I don't remember him in that movie. He's the love interest.

Sure. Yeah. She's in the disastrous, very, very early. This had Oscar Buzz movie for the Fifth State. She's in that movie, Testament of Youth, that I never saw, but she got a beef and nomination for that. But 2015 is sort of where it obviously all happens for her. She's an ex-Machana, Alex Garland's ex-Machana, impressive. dresses the heck out of everybody.

She's also in The Man From Uncle, which I am team the Man From Uncle, I think. Great movie. I am team recast the Army Hammer Roll and make a second Man from Uncle movie because, like, first of all, we need it. Second of all, Henry Cavill could use it. Hot movie. Hot movie. What a hot movie where no one ever takes off their clothes.

I know. I know. She's in another this head Oscar Buzz movie, movie. You burnt. And then somehow, wins an Oscar for the worst movie of the four that she makes in 2015 which is the Danish girl

And I don't think burnt is worse than the Danish girl No Maybe I don't remember burnt enough I mean she's barely in burnt So it's not like we can really judge it as an elise of a camera movie Isn't she exclusively on the phone in burnt No she shows up at the end of the movie Remember in person to talk to him

The thing is if she'd been nominated for ex Machina She still would have won for X Machina Yeah really also on top of the Danish girl being bad. It's unnecessary. Yeah. Is like, well, we could have just not done this.

We didn't have to do this. We could have just not done this. We didn't have to do. It didn't have to be this way. It's crazy. Right. And then she's one of those people who like, she wins the Oscar. And then she does a sort of like fade away too, where it's not like, I only put in a select few of her movies. She makes more movies than this. But it's like Jason Bourne and the Light Between Oceans are 2016.

Tulip Fever in 2017 Tomb Raider At long last Yes at long last Tomb Raider in 2018 She makes the Irma Vep TV adaptation

in 22 is it? I was trying to like I know where I was living when I tried to watch that show and had to like that was one of those shows where I was supposed to write about it and I remember watching the early screeners

and I remember seeing to my editor like, I can't do this. Like, I can't write about this thing intelligently. I don't get it. I don't understand what is going on here. Not like plot-wise, but just like, I can't, I have no, I have no take on it. I have absolutely, that's one of the few times that I've ever. That show had a few things.

I just admitted defeat. I really admitted defeat on that, on that show. And that never, I never do that. I think HBO did as well. Yeah. But anyway, so, like, I think she's one of those actresses who I think a lot of people just sort of, like, reduce her to winning a very unpopular Oscar. And I just don't think that, I don't think people have a take on her, speaking of not having a take. I don't think there's a, we don't know, we don't really have a, you know, a conception of Alicia.

She's not always the most interesting, but I don't think she's a bad actress. I think. You're right to mention she stayed working, but what it is is she's doing smaller roles or smaller movies. I think something like The Green Knight, she's kind of perfectly cast for. If anything, the Green Knight casts her very well. And she's good in a way because there is this undercurrent of sinister that she's playing that's not overplayed, that, you know, kind of is not maybe the obvious choice. But, like, after Tomb Raider, which is not well received, and I don't believe does well financially, or else they would have made another one, she's just in everything she makes since then, with the inclusion of the Green Knight, which is a movie we remember, but I feel like that movie did not really impact mainstream cinema. Well, it's post-go, it was like the first, like.

It's the best movie she's made in that span by a mile. but like nobody was really going to theaters at the time and I think if you look at that look at that movie through that lens it's like oh green knight made a lot of money compared to a lot of what its peers would do or what other strange movies did at that time I was annoyed that movie got ignored by like craft categories at the Oscars because it's so well made and it's still one of those movies that I remember like seeing Barry Keogan in that movie and like that's the movie where I got the Barry Keogan thing was the Green Knight um anyway I also had a sporting role in Blue Bayou that was not well received and had some of its own controversies.

Julie Tameor's The Glorias, which I would fucking love to do an episode on The Glorias. Sure, I would do it. What an odd movie. What was the Blue Bayou controversy? It's, I forget the actual specifics around it, but it's an adoption story and they, I think they did some type of, some type of like giveaway where they were like you can have a vacation to like

the site where this Oh to Korea Oh gosh Yeah oh god It was just not in good taste But it was also a movie that didn't really register beyond that Well she makes essentially Just a string of festival movies

That don't really ever escape the velocity of those festivals Because Earthquake Bird was another movie I remember being a I think that was a London film festival thing and Netflix right that was like one of the like oh Netflix is dumping this thing

Right right The Glorious was a Sundance thing That didn't take off from there Firebrand was a can thing That got such bad reviews I had fun with that movie I'm well on the record of saying Fun movie

I did watch Did I watch Rumors? Is that the movie that takes place at the G7 conference, and it's like a horror movie? She doesn't even speak in that movie. Right, right, right. She shows up at the end. Is that the deal?

Or I genuinely can't remember. I just remember that Cape Lanchet was in it. And I remember being like... Disappointing movie. Disappointing movie that I like... I kind of enjoyed while I was watching it, but I was like, ultimately it doesn't really leave you with anything. But that was another festival movie.

That was a Cannes movie, I want to say. And so right, so she's upcoming. She's in the new Olivia Siasse movie with... Jude Law and Paul Dano, Jude Law, Anna Karenina Reunion. Judla, Paul Dano, Tom Sturge, Jeffrey Wright, watch me like, pump my fist. Jude law

playing Putin. So this is the wizard? By the time that this episode airs, this movie will have premiered and is either a thing or not. Someone who loves Asayas' best work, his latest

output is not the most enticing to get me to sit down for this two and a half our movie. It's called the Wizard of the Kremlin, I should say. I can't help myself. I can't help myself. I'm intrigued. I really am. The festivals are hyping the Paul Dano performance, which you know is going to get me excited for something, but I don't know. The timing of this at the TIF, I don't. Maybe I'll see it. It's in a, it's in a time slot battle right now with Palestine 36, which is going to be Palestine's Oscar submission.

and I want to see it. I want to see that one. So I don't know how I'm going to get to see Wizard of the Kremlin. But I do want to see it. And I hope it's good. It's going to be, it's a Venice premiere as well. I would like to see Asaias make a good comeback. I mean, what have his last few been?

Because, like, it was a personal shopper was 2016. Right. Nonfiction, which people... Which I enjoyed, but it's not his... Wasp Network was the... the one that everybody did not like. And then he had a movie called Suspended Time that I don't remember hearing about it. That got kind of ripped to shreds at Berlin two years ago and just finally surfaced here in the States.

Interesting. Interesting. So, yeah, it's been almost 10 years since his last really well-received movie. But it's the guy who made summer hours and personal shopper and, you know, It's good filmmaker. All right. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so back to the Light Between Oceans.

So we have this movie starring this, and they get together on set for this movie, right? This is where they meet and fall for each other, Fastbender and Vekender? I don't remember the timeline of it. Or were they together already? Definitely by the time this is released, they are a known couple. Yeah, yeah. Again, I think Vice is very good, but. I think miscast

she's in the in an interesting sort of run for her stuff too where post Oscar post the Constant Gardner she kind of runs into a couple of stumbles where

you know the fountain we just talked about that one recently that is what it is it ultimately doesn't hit the way I think they would have wanted it to the lovely bones is not she's not it's not her fault, but it's like it's not a good career moment for her. And she makes

that movie... She's good in the movie, though. You could say that she is the tomb in the middle of that house. And then she makes that Alejandro Amenabar movie, Agora, which was sort of in, you know, in production forever and was sort of took forever to

get released. And I ultimately never ended up seeing it, even though it was on like long lead Oscar predictions for like many, many consecutive years. And then she ends up sort of getting back in the game with sort of lower budget stuff and, you know,

English stuff. Like the whistleblower? The whistleblower, the deep blue sea. She hops onto Yorgos Lanthamos is the lobster. She's a supporting role in we don't like this movie, but Palo San Antonio's youth. And that's sort of the lead-up to the

Light Between Oceans. But the same year as the Light Between Oceans, She makes that movie denial, which plays the festivals, which is not a great movie, but I think she's very good in it. And then the next year, she's in Sebastian Lelio's disobedience, where I think she is both great and that movie is very good. And so I think this is a sort of, she's on the comeback trail. Not like she didn't, her career didn't bottom out or anything, but like I think she's sort of rising in prominence and sort of leading up to that. Oscar nomination for the favorite, where all of a sudden that movie hits, and everyone's like, you know who's the best thing in the world is Rachel Weiss? And it's tough to argue. It's real

tough to argue. She has not made a movie since Black Widow in 2021. What's up with that? And she's only really, like, in terms of TV, has she done theater work? She might have been doing, she may have been doing theater work. Her only TV was The Dead Ringer show, which, by the way, rocks and rolls. Like, she's so fucking incredible. I never finished it. I think she's so great. I think she's so fantastic in that. It's not like she's going away.

Trust and believe that the photo of her Daniel Craig from, was it last year or two years ago, where they show up in Lueva and everybody's like this is the most saw you across the bar couple ever. Trust and believe that photo still lives rent free in my head

and will continue. You will have to get some of like search warrant eviction something i don't know i'm not i don't understand the law she what does i mdb have sometimes i mdb is wrong but they have her attached to this thomas alfredson movie in pre-production called seance on a wet afternoon again oh right the they're trying to remake this movie oh it was a it was a 60s movie i mean kim stanley oh yeah it's one of the those things where it just like it does not it's so okay what's funny is it's in pre-production it has only her attached as a cast member all of the signs point to like not real yet not real yet maybe

won't ever become real yet and yet what does i mdb have is a running time of 121 minutes like folks for a movie that's not a not shot or single frame folks what are we doing um anyway um I think it was, I did a little bit of a, oh, by the way, this is not a Roger Ebert review. This was a, oh, sorry, I'm editing my, this was a David Sims review. The other thing to talk about, I think, with C in France, especially after this movie is Sound of Metal, which had its origins in like a long filming documentary. that got shelved, and then they eventually make a fiction film. Yeah. That he still, I think has a producing credit on...

And co-writer, right? I think he has screenplay. Did he get on that? A screenwriting credit. I didn't think... I think he got like an Oscar nomination for that. I'm pretty sure. I think.

Anyway. He did not get an... Yeah, he got an Oscar nomination for that. Yeah, I thought so. I thought so. The thing about Derek C. and France, I want to talk about, though. I'm excited for Roofman still. And I know that trailer kind of took the wind out of a lot of people's sales a little bit,

because it seemed a little mainstreamy, normie. I don't know. I definitely don't think it's a trailer that is being fully honest with whatever this thing is going to be. Can we also talk about the poster, this particular style of poster that I need to go away? Well, but it's also, it is part of a visual trend that I just don't, it's this, if you've seen, if you haven't seen the poster, I'm going to try and picture it to you, and you will know what I'm talking about, which is solid primary color background. I don't know what you would call this font, but it's like, you know, very kind of like blocky, you know, very large print block font roof man. in another primary color, right? This is like, this is very basic.

The image is almost incidental, although in this case, this is Channing Tatum in a t-shirt and very short shorts. Are those not boxers? Oh, it might be boxer briefs. Yes, I think you're right, boxer briefs. Sneakers and socks, inner tube, pink inner tube, sunglasses, giant teddy bear draped over his shoulders, and a gun in his right, or his right hand.

I literally am doing the left, right. But it's like, again, the image is incidental. It's this sort of like minimalist, you know, I hate it. I just think it's so, I think it's so played out by now. Anyway, I feel like people don't know how to market a serious Channing Tatum role because there seems to be this conception out there that Channing Tatum is, like, a, Bottom of the Barrel movie star. But it's, it's drama, but it's also like, unless they're really lying to us.

There's clearly a comedic elements to this movie. The trailer would have to be a real lie about the tone of the thing. Plus, I just think the concept of the movie is leaning, you know, comedic where he's like, he's a rooftop robber, right? But he's robbing, like, the fucking Toys R Us. Yeah. Yeah. And he's, like, living in the walls. I mean, Channing Tatum and Kirsten Dunst.

Kirsten Donstas, she's recently corrected us. Those two actors in a C in France movie, I'm on board no matter what the movie is. I just, you know, the marketing is concerning. But that's playing TIF. Premiering TIF? Yes. Which I hate that I see that as a red flag, too,

because you know how much I love TIF. But like a TIF world premiere in 2025 to me is like... I don't know. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. I feel like for a movie like this, though, I don't know if they would take this movie if it wasn't good. Right.

Like you think that the studio, because this is also Paramount, they've been going to stuff lately. And I guess a movie like this wouldn't fit at Venice or, you know, and tell your eyes all wrong for this movie. So, yeah, maybe Tiff makes more sense than New York. I feel like they would probably try to hide this movie a little bit more. then take it to the festival if it's not good

right because it's yes yeah you're probably right by the time this airs listeners will know because the movie will not premiered and they may even have our thoughts on it but yeah you're right I think the combination of Derek C and France Channing Tatum Kirsten Dunst

I'm in I am on board and Lakeith Stanfield and Juno Temple and Peter Dinklage like it's a good cast Let's hope that Juno Temple is not doing a Juno Temple thing, because that will be a ding against this movie. I have come around on Juno Temple, and... Good actress, but, like, always playing of a piece, roles that are of a piece, we'll say. I will say, you know what turned me around on Juno Temple, and I know you didn't watch this show,

and it ended up not being my favorite show either, but, like, her on Ted Lasso turned me around on her. I think she gets to play outside of that zone. in that show, in a way that, like, you think she's going to be playing inside that zone, but then she plays very much outside that zone, and I like her very much. Well, good. I hope that that is true in Roofman as well. Roofman. I just want Channing and Kirsten to, like, just knock it out of the park. Absolutely.

All right. I did come up with a game that we can play, I think, fairly quickly, because it's sort of a microgame. I wanted to talk about the end of Touchstone Pictures. shirts here, which was a studio that had been around since the 80s. And as a person growing up on,

because this was essentially like Disney's grown-up movie arm, right? This was how they used to release grown-up movies before they had Disney Plus where they just gave up the ghost and threw it all on Disney Plus now, and all of a sudden it's just like, what's the brand here? Like, what's going on? But I loved

that seal of approval. That touchstone little lightning bolts in the circle, like you knew you were in for a good movie, very soothing. So we haven't played alter egos in a while. So we're going to play a round of alter egos where I give you the name of three movie characters. You then have to figure out what actors played those characters and then name the movie that all three of those actors are in together. The answers will all be Touchstone Pictures movies from throughout the years, from the 1980s through the 2016, through the 2016. end of it all. Any questions? No, let's go. All right, let's do it. To start, I'm going to give you. Now, these roles, again, may be film, but sometimes I may give you a TV role, just to fair winning.

Thomas Magnum, Sam Malone, and Carrie Mahoney. Oh, do I know any of these? Thomas Magnum. Magnum P.I. Tom Selik. Is this three men and a baby? This is three men and a baby. Sam Malone is Ted Danson and Cheers, of course. Always forget that you throw in TV names. I said it. That's why I said it. That's why I said it right at the top.

You weren't listening. It's fine. All right. Next question. Lex Luthor, Dixie Normas, and Greg Fawker. Dixie Normis is Gwyneth Paltrow and Gold member. Greg Focker is Ben Stiller in obviously all of those parental films. Luther see Ben Stiller and when it is

what would that have been Talk your way through Lex Luthor Oh Lex Luthor is it's Gene Hackman This is Royal Tenet bombs This is the Royal Tendombs Yes

Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor Very good All right Detective Rita Rizoli Gunilla Garson Goldberg And Aunt March Gwynilla Garson Goldberg is, God, am I going to spend all my mental energy remembering this because I know this?

She's, oh, okay, Aunt March has to be, it's one of two, so I'll just say Merrill? Is it Merrill? It's not Merrill. In Little Woman, okay, so it's the other. Who plays Aunt March and the other? one the what was

the first name Detective Rita Rosoli which I was like he's either going to get it or he's not going to get it so I'll give you an alternate um Seeley Johnson

oh that's um this is whoopee whoopee and oh is this oh Gwynilla Gwynilla is Maggie Smith in um first wives club

this is sister act This is Sister Act. Who's Aunt March? Is Kathy a... Oh, no, it's Mary Wicks is Aunt March in the other one. Queen Mary Wicks. I love Mary Wicks. Yes.

I forgot that she was Aunt March. And the 94 Little Women. Yes, she is. All right. Next one. Ballou, Glenn Holland, and Elaine. Ballou is John Goodman. Because he played Ballou in the...

In Jungle Book 2, I think? It's not John Goodman. It's not John Goodman. No. Okay, then who played Ballou in the John Favreau Jungle Book? What were the other names? Glenn Holland and Elaine. Is Elaine Julia Louis Dreyfus?

No, these are all movie people. Okay. It's not Elaine Robinson. I'm going to assume. Who's Elaine Robinson? The graduate, which would be wrong. No. No. I think this character has a last name, but it's like completely extraneous.

Also, the hardest one. I was trying to find a third person in this movie to get you. Instead of blue, let's do... Hold on. Instead of blue, we will do... do let me say hmm hmm hmm

hmm oh maybe this will too Polonius do you know who all the various poloniuses are in the Hamlets okay Garfield

Bill Murray there you go A touchstone film. Glenn Holland. Oh, Richard. Oh, this is what about Bob? This is what about Bob? It's Richard Dreyfuss.

Elaine is Julie Haggerty in Airplane. Sure. All right. Josh Baskin, L. Driver, and Jerry Fleck. Oh, God. L. Driver is very famous. I know I know. this um you do the third one is

the third one we've talked about very recently on this podcast not today's episode jerry fleck jerry with a g jerry right right on a recent episode oh um katherine o'hara no she's cookie but oh yeah yeah eugene levy yes um he's the least helpful one of the three, unfortunately. What was the first name again? Josh Baskin. Josh Baskin. Is that a child?

For some of the movie, he is a child. Well, for all of the movie, he is a child. For some of the movie, he has played by a child. What? He's a child through the entire movie, but he's only played by a child actor for some of it. Is that Tom Hanks? In

a big. Yes. L. Driver. Is this Turner and Hooch? No. But you're in the right sort of time period. What if I go like this? For L. Driver.

Oh, Daryl Hannah, this is Splash. Yes. Splash. For all the listeners, I covered my eye as if I had an eye patch on. Okay, yes, this is Splash. Tom Hanks, Daryl Hannah, Eugene Levy. Okay, next one.

Laslo Toff, Chi-Chi Rodriguez, and Romi White. This is Son of Sam. That's Adrian Brody. Summer of Sam, but yes. Summer of Sam. What did I say? You said Son of Sam, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got it. Adrian Brody, John Leguizama, Mirosorbino. Yes, very good. I'm still so sad. I can't see Mirosorvino in Chicago. I'm sorry. all right mona dearly mary magdalen and maria portacolos uh this is beaches wow

that was so quick maria portacolos is laney kazan mary magdalen is barbara hershey and then what was the betmintler name mona dearly oh drowning mona there you go very good yes bet midler barbara herci lane kazan i'm so impressed you got that so quickly i can't get a quentin tarrantino that I can get beaches in New York minute. Bruce Banner, Mimi Marquez, and Phil Parma.

Mimi Marquez is Rosario Dawson. In. Rent. Yep. The third name was what? Phil Parma. Oh.

Um, and the first name was Bruce Banner. Edward Norton, this is the 25th hour. This is 25th hour. I cannot allow you to make the same mistake that everybody writes into us about Cinematrix and says, why doesn't the 25th hour work? It's because it's 25th hour.

Phil Parma is? Philip Seymour Hoffman. In? Magnolia. There you go. All right. Next one. Richard Nixon, Dewey Finn, and Denise Huxstable.

Richard Nixie. Nixon has to be Anthony Hopkins. Does he? John Cusack. From? From Lee Daniels The Butler. Everything you are and everything you have.

That's because of that Butler. Yes. Is this gross? No, not... No. Dewey Finn and Denise Huxstable. which one was Denise That's a good question

Is it Who's the most likely to be in a movie Any and all Really? I suppose Of the female characters Of the Huxstables

Tatiana Ali? You're thinking of the Banksus. Oh, okay. Wait, is Tatiana Ali not the youngest on Cosby Show? No, you're thinking of Keisha Nypolium. Oh. Tatian Ali is the youngest of the French Prince of Bel Air. I haven't watched that era of television.

That's not the Golden Girls in some time. Well, there was only one of those Huxstable children that had even a little bit of a Lisa Bonnet. Yes. Um. With John Cusack. Is this like better off dead? No, later than better off dead.

Okay. Dewey Finn. I'm trying to think of a different. Bowser. Jack Black. Yes. Yes. Dewey Finn is School of Rock.

This is like mystery men Speak out the actors And I think you'll get it Who is the cast You have John Cusack Jack Black Lisa Bonnet Yes

Imagine like John Cusack doing Direct to Camera Fourth Wall Breaking Oh high fidelity There you go I forgot she was in She's like the cool

She's the very cool one All right Barbara Weston Fordham Billy Flynn and George Costanza So Richard Geer and Jason Alexander That's George Costanza That is George Costanza

Okay Barbara Weston Fordham Weston Fordham Weston Fordham is a hyphenet Uh huh I did not want to give you an easy one of this person's roles Sure Jason Alexander in a movie is what's throwing me

I know he is in movies Who did I say the second person was Billy Flynn is Richard Gere Richard Gere and Jason Alexander In A Touchstone movie See like some of this is like I can name the movie because of the Touchstone logo.

Right, right. What's another? This person's roles are so easy that, like, I'm having trouble thinking of one that's like... Barbara Westonthorpe is not... Oh, Merrill? No, but you're in the right ballpark. Oh, Barbara is...

No, Barbara is Julia Roberts. Yes. Is this I love... Trouble? No. Who's your cast members? Richard Gear. runaway bride

no pretty woman there you go pretty woman why is that so hard why is that so hard all right two more Navin R. Johnson

Sybil stone and Jack Frost Jack Frost is Michael Keaton is it is there another Jack Frost oh is this going to be from Rise of the Guardians

am I going to hate you weirdly it's not Rise of the Guardians although Jack Frost is a character and Rise of the Guardian Well, Sybil Stone is Diane Keaton. From? The Family Stone. Yes.

What other Jack Frost is there? What milieu is Jack Frost? Christmas. Right? So what's maybe a franchise in which that could be a character who shows up? In maybe the third. Martin Short? from from santa claus three yes never even seen it but that's not nor have i christmas franchise that came

up okay yeah who was the first name naven r johnson naven johnson naven so it's actress diane martin short no naven m a v i haven yeah man diane martin short yes father of the bride yes because who's naven martin or uh steve martin in the jerk is naven johnson okay all right final one nick dun david dun and lightning mcqueen lightning mqueen is owen wilson uh-huh nick dun is ben affleck and gone girl where's your wife nick Where's your pregnant one? Ben Affleck and Owen Wilson Did you say David Dunn?

I did. I did. I said David Dunn. It's two. Ben Affleck and a touchstone with Owen Wilson. Is this Armageddon? It is. Who is David Dunn? Oh, David Dunn is Bruce Willis in Sixth Sense. No, you're so close. It's not Sixth Sense. Oh, unbreakable. Unbreakable. Yes. Nick Dunn is Ben Affleck and Gone Girl. David Dunn is Bruce Willis in Unbreakable. This was like, I was just off the mark constantly. That's the beauty. Like just confidently wrong. The beauty of alter egos. We love it. We love it, don't we?

Should we talk about that year's Venice Film Festival that Light Between Oceans was there? It's very odd that Light Between Oceans was there. I forgot that it was in this Venice lineup. The Lav Diaz Venice Film Festival. A woman who left a good movie. What is it about? And how long is it? You have to ask how long it is because it is four hours long.

Okay. Yes. I have to ask because Lav Diaz's movies are all very long movies. Yes. It's about a woman who was false. falsely accused and is released from prison. There's karaoke in the movie. Ah.

If I can entice you with anything. If you're going to entice me. My golden line is Jackie. Jackie wins the screenplay award at that Venice. Yeah. Fucking Nocturnal Animals wins the grand jury prize, which is essentially second place.

Stupid. Nocturnal Animals was a full like MLM like Crypto Punk Ponzi. that award season. Ponsie scheme. What a bullshit-ass movie.

If not for Jackie, it would be Arrival as mine. Yeah, Arrival doesn't win any prizes, which is weird. The Bad Batch wins special jury prize, which, you know, I don't think the Bad Batch

is a great movie, but I am in favor of movies like the Bad Batch winning prizes at film festivals. You know what I mean? Just like, it's something. It's, you know, I think the Bad Batch

one of those movies. It's just like, see it for yourself. You know, you might like it. That's Annalili Amon Poor is apparently making a cliffhanger remake. That's still in the works. I would like that. That's been on my spreadsheet for like year-ahad movies for like three years. Like, come on. Let's get, let's make this cliffhanger thing happen. And then you have La La La Land and Terrence Malik's Voyage of Time documentary. There you go. Yes. Interesting. Anything else we want to say about this? Oh, I wrote down

we're going to disagree on this I said Alicia Vickander's character and this is worse than Martin from artificial intelligence No villain you're being an asshole She's a villain She's been through some shit She lives alone

By the way She lives with her husband Who works all day in a lighthouse She is stuck alone Oh I'm so sorry you have ocean front property all the time and boo-hoo. Alone with no friends. Relaxation all the time in the world.

She is constantly alone in the VIP. Alone, yet not alone. Because her husband's up there in the lighthouse. I mean, maybe it's just the thing that the movie uses montage to try to get you to understand the context in which these characters are living. which is... She also fully knows that she's marrying the guy who's going to work in the lighthouse. It's not like she got duped or anything

like that. Like, she, she had her eyes open. Who wants to go to town with a guy in a lighthouse? Wait, what is that from? It's who wants to go to town with a guy in a rowboat. Oh, what is that from? Romeo and Michelle. Touchstone's pictures. Romeo and Michelle. I tried to do Romeo and Michelle in that I couldn't find another Mira Sorvino role that had like a recognizable name.

Like even in Mighty Aphrodite, her name is like Julie or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, what else do we want to say about this? I kind of have nothing else. I'm kind of done. Roofman, I'm looking forward to... Yeah. All right.

All right. Chris, why don't you tell our listeners what the IMDB game is all about, and then we can get on with that. All right, listeners. Every episode we end with the IMDB game, where... each of us challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles. IMDB says they are most known for

if any of those titles are television. Voice-only performances or non-acting credits will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. That's not enough. It just becomes a free-for-all of hints. We love a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. Christopher.

Would you like to give me a clue or would you like to guess from my clue? I'll guess first I'm already on a role of being bad at games today All right, all right, we'll continue this So I went into the cast for Roofman And after I tried Some of the cast members who have some real, real wild shit

In their IMDB I landed upon Mr. Lakeith Stanfield Okay, okay So no television, so no Atlanta No voice-only performances have at it. Well, his Oscar nomination, Judas and the Black Messiah. You would think, and yet.

Wow. No. Yeah. Sorry to bother you. Yes. Sorry to bother you. Short-term 12. Yes, short-term 12.

Get out. No? Not Get Out. Interesting. He says the title of the movie. All the colloias, they were like, no. What are my years? Oh, sorry.

Yes, right. Years. 2014 and 2019. 2014? That's before short-term 12. No, short-term 12 is 2013. Oh, yeah, that's true. 2014, then.

What did we immediately see him? Isn't he in, like, a larger movie pretty quickly? Yes. Not like a Godzilla movie, but like a Godzilla movie. No, no, very much not a Godzilla movie. But a large cast, he's among a very large cast. In both of these movies, actually, he is among a very large cast. And in 2014, a big movie with a large cast.

What were the big movies of 2014? Would that be? Hmm. It's not an interstellar. Mm-mm. He's... Is this just like a moneymaker, or is it an Oscar movie or both?

It's an Oscar movie. Okay. 2014 is... Oh, Selma. Yes. Selma. Yeah. All right, 2019.

Huge cast. But I believe he's pretty well spotlet in that movie. I think he gets like, he's pretty important in that movie, I think. All right, 2019. Also an ensemble movie. Also an Oscar movie? Yes. Okay.

Not once about a time in Hollywood. Not the Irishman. Is he in Joker? He's not in Joker. No. Although his Atlantic co-star. I wouldn't call that a non-sum movie either. Yeah, no, it's not.

So what else am I forgetting? Is he in Ford versus Ferrari? Nope. Okay. If that was in his known for, I would have been angry. Ford versus Ferrari? Yeah, no. No, no. He's not super prominent in this movie, but I think he sort of does a good job in his limited role.

Trying to run through Best Picture nominees of 2019, and I'm not... Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Okay. Oh, because it's not a Best Picture nominee. Great. Yeah. Yes. But Oscar movies, though, that year. It's one nomination. For acting? No.

For writing. Yes. Okay. Screenplay nominee. Oh, it's Knives Out. Knives Out. Yes. He plays one of the cops in Knives Out. I like him in that. I like him quite a bit in that movie. All right. What do you have for me? Joe, if I was an ocean and you were an ocean, what ocean would we be? Atlantic. Are you the Atlantic Ocean or am I the Atlantic Ocean? Oh, I see. Um Atlantic Ocean is supposed to be pretty cold

So I would believe me being in it Yeah, you're the sort of You're the cold but roiling Atlantic Ocean And I am the warm, lazy Pacific Okay I had to pull the light between our oceans And what other light could that be But Judith light

Oh nice There are three television shows So this may not go for very long Transparent Transparence, correct. Who's the boss? Who's the boss is correct. I would die if it's one life to live.

Are you guessing one life to live? Yes. That is incorrect. Damn it. All right. Okay, so other Judith Light TV shows include Ugly Betty. They include Law and Order Special Victims Unit. They include American Crime Story Gianni Versace.

Pokerface. what she'd want an Emmy for, I think. Or maybe Esa Pathan Markerson did. One of the two of them did. She's on so much television. Okay, movie-wise. Judith Light, the menu? The menu is correct.

All right. Thank God, because I couldn't. So you still have your one television show. One television show, and I have one guess in my pocket. I'm going to say Ugly Betty. Ugly Betty is correct. Okay, all right. So close to a perfect score.

So, listen, I, I really, ruined it by being overly confident in One Life to Live, which I guess because she did win a daytime Emmy for that show. All right. Well done. That is our episode on The Light Between Oceans that closes out our unofficial trilogy on Deep Oceans. So we hope you enjoyed that. And is it next week as our TIF episode? Oh, I can't remember.

Let me look. I think it is. This could have been after our TIF episode. No, next week is our TIF wrap-up episode. Hey, we'll probably be talking about our thoughts on Ruffman. Yes, yes. So enjoy that one. Get excited.

One of our most anticipated, I feel like, episodes of every year. We love an annual tradition. Yes, all right. If you want more of this head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this oscarbuzz.tumblr.com, you should also follow our Instagram at ThisHad Oscar Buzz. And if you would like to sign up for our Patreon, you can go to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris V. File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-E-M-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my Patreon-E-M-E-M-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my-N-E-E-I-D. You can also subscribe to my-F-M-E-E-I-D. We would would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance, and Taylor Cole for our theme music.

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