This Had Oscar Buzz - 360 – The Boxer

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

We’ve got Daniel Day-Lewis back in theaters this week with Anemone, so we’re looking back at one of his few failed Oscar bids. In 1997, Day-Lewis paired up with director Jim Sheridan for the third time in a decade for The Boxer, the tale of an IRA member and boxer released from prison in the waning days … Continue reading "360 – The Boxer"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and French. Dick Pooh. Stand and lift your glasses. To our prisoner's wives. Danny Flynn's out. After 14 years in prison, Danny Flynn is coming home.

He's not one of us. Where does you really come back? Thank you. This is my home. Sure, what are you going to do? I thought I'd try and get a few fates. We're going to take the fighting off the streets and put it back where it belongs. You broke my heart, Danny.

Why didn't you ask me to wait? How can I ask you to wait for me? In a world where violence is a way of life. On your way, boy. The most dangerous thing you can do is fall in love. I've loved in silence with your face for 14. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast having sex with Ben Affleck and the

Caribbean for storyline reasons. Every week on this had Oscar buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my prisoner's wife, Chris File.

Hello, Chris. How's life on the outside? Are you, are you? I was going to do an in, out. So five minutes ago. out, wife on phone, so five minutes ago, the baker's wife in Prisoner's wife. Prisoner's wife, that's a proud institution in Dublin or wherever the hell city they're in. I love Emily Watson, so I will take that as a compliment.

Can I just get this clear right off of the bat? Yes. Emily Watson in the boxer is perhaps the most beautiful a face has ever looked in the history of anything. Her highlights are also on and popping. She is just the most, it's, I mean, she's a beautiful woman in general, but like her face is angelic in this movie. It really, it's really something. Emily Watson, incredible actress. We have not done right by her.

Say that. Two-time Oscar nominee, let's not forget. After the nomination for Breaking the Waves, incredible performance, like formative performance for me as a young. cinephile. She was also nominated for maybe the most forgotten acting nominee of the past, oh, 30 years, Hillary and Jackie. And then this is the movie she did in between those, yes. Can you name an acting nominee since the 90s on that is harder to get your hands on than that movie? See, the thing about that is, and I say this with some expertise, because I am, 10% of my life has been spent just trying to mentally recall.

best actress nominees backwards in time. I bet you forget Hillary and Jackie quite a bit. I don't as much because Rachel Griffiths is there as like in an erroneous supporting nomination. Because she's easier to remember for 98,

I feel like, because she's sort of a she was a bit of a surprise. And then so if you remember Rachel Griffiths, you remember Hillary and Jackie. The one weirdly that I forget a lot is like Merrill for Music of the Heart. You know what I mean?

Because she's 1999, and that movie just feels very much not 1999. 1996, yeah. When she was probably nominated. She wasn't, she was nominated for the Globe for Marvin's Room, and Diane Keaton got nominated for Marvin's Room. But, yeah, I'm trying to think of, like, the ones I always forget are, like, both Robert Downey Jr. nominations, I feel like, are, like, often forgotten by me. You mean Chaplin and Tropic Thunder? Oh, yeah, sorry.

Yes, up until very recently, they were the both Robert Darnie Jr. nominations. I always forget Laurelini and Kinsey for whatever reason, like always, even though I really love her and I like that performance. She'd have my vote. She'd have my vote. Who are the other ones who I'm always just like, oh my God, right? I always forget them. Or they're like the last one that I think of in a certain lineup. Do you know what I mean?

And like, because I tend to, like, the ones that feel very, like, self-consciously hardest to get are the ones that I, like, make sure that I remember. You're Kathleen Quinlan's in Apollo 13. Your, um, what, who are some real sort of, like, left-fieldy ones? Your, uh, I'm going to, like, I'm going to blank on somebody who's, like, really odd. Like, Woody Harrelson and the Messenger or something like that. Like, you know, those ones I've always, I kind of make a point. to remember and then the ones that I forget. I think the Messenger is, with the exclusion of Netflix, the least, the acting nomination since the 2000s, like, with the lowest box office.

I think that's probably right. Yeah, saw it in a theater. Anyway, did not see the boxer in the theater. I had a hard time when I started watching this movie yesterday, remembering whether I had ever actually seen this movie or not. And I think I have, but I just retained only, like, the most basic, like, could have gotten that from the trailer information about it. It doesn't help that this movie kind of, like, goes through a little bit of a paint-by-numbers, beat-by-beat, like you are making a story about, you know, the latter stage, the troubles, you know what I mean? And these are kind of, with the exception of the actual boxing stuff, but even the boxing stuff feels like... The boxing stuff's pretty rude.

But, and it's like insert personalized experience of IRA member here. Do you know what I mean? Where's those guys? Sure. And otherwise you're dealing with, I think what's interesting about the boxer is stuff that feels somewhat accidental. The fact that this movie was released mere months before the Good Friday Accords were signed.

And, you know, where this fits sort of in Daniel Day Lewis's. career. This was before Daniel Day Lewis couldn't miss. But I think as a movie, it's, I think Rote is probably the right word for it, even though I think its main actors are all really good. And I, it has 1990s original score disease somewhat where I think one of the things, and I, I think one of the things. And I, this was a, this movie was, uh, distributed by who the was universal, was universal. Right. So you get the feeling that like with a big studio distributing this, I don't know for sure, but like maybe that was a note. Maybe the note was have the score make it seem a little bit more exciting contemporary. Like there was a, there was an

effort to give this movie, make this movie sound like something that was going to make, $50 million in its first few weeks. Do you know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. We'll definitely get into why it was timed so precisely for just like pure failure. Yeah. I think I like this movie a little bit more than you. I don't not like this movie.

I just think like especially in the realm of like Jim Sheridan, Daniel Day Lewis stuff, I like in the name of the father so much more. I do agree that's the better movie That's probably my favorite Jim Sheridan movie In the Name of the Father? I mean, I know I love in America a lot more than you do But like, it's those two It's those two for me

Because when I say I don't like in America That's high school me Sure I haven't seen it since high school So I should get that movie Another Chance as an adult I would never ever recommend this movie As a boxing movie

Which when you title a movie the boxer. Right. Right. That's maybe a substantial problem. Right. But I do think it's so, and maybe, you know, I thought a lot about we did The Devil Zone. Was that earlier this year? Yes. Hi, Dan and Connor. We love you. Yeah. It wouldn't have been last year. It was definitely earlier this year. You know, and movies like Belfast, and I'm sure that this is not true of the boxer, but it felt like, this is a movie that is about the transitional period as you're moving out of social crisis and things are becoming a little bit more normal the you know the we've turned off the stove the tea kettle is not boiling anymore that type of timing in a cultural crisis yeah and i don't think we see a lot of movies at that particular time, like issue movies, about that particular stage of a cultural, societal issue. I agree.

And I think that's interesting. And like I said, it's probably not true that there's not examples specifically about the troubles about this kind of time. Right. Like, it's ending or it's, you know, there's probably other examples. But, like, I think when we think of movies about that, you know, we think of movies that are mid. crisis. Well, and you get a TV show like Say Nothing that was on FX this year, which because it's a TV show is able to sort of like move forward in time and have some perspective on how things were in the 60s versus how things were in the 90s. But yeah, I agree with you

entirely on your point. And it sort of goes to the fact that I'm most intrigued. If there's a character I'm most intrigued by in this movie, it's the Brian Cox character. Because he's the person upon whom it is incumbent to kind of share. shepherd this revolutionary movement into these final stages where you are agreeing to a piece. And unless you have completely wiped out your enemy, a piece is something that needs to be agreed upon and negotiated and, you know, sort of come to an accord on both sides. And I think that's interesting, the question of how do you ultimately lay down your arms and you and you see him he's getting pressured from the more sort of militant members of

his I mean the whole thing's a militant movement right but like the more the more the more sort of you know hot-headed members whose you know complaints are and again we're getting to the ending in the beginning classic this had Oscar buzz but they're like people died on hunger strike for this for this you know cause for the IRA people you know lost their children you know people, you know, spent 30 years fighting for this, and you're just going to let the British, you know, the loyalist cops sort of into our streets and whatever, these people who, you know, beat us and whatever. And how do you sell that? How do you sell that to your own people who, you know, there is no, you know, what is the answer to that? How do, there is no, you know,

making good on those sacrifices that people made. You just have to ultimately, decide that peace is, that a piece is worth what, you know, we have gained by fighting for it for 30 years. And that's about compromise. It's just an interesting space, I think, for a drama. There's just like so much natural drama in that tension, right? And to the point where it's like, well, why St. Brian Cox, the protagonist of this story? Because the love story stuff feels so obligatory. Even when you have, you know, two of the greatest actors of their generations, you know, at like a peak moment for at least Emily Watson. Yeah. You know, they're really struggling to make this love story interesting. But I think the answer to your question, though, why isn't this Brian Cox's story is because it's not a young man's story. That wouldn't be a young man's story. That would be the story of an older man. And it's really, really hard for a especially mainstream, you know, big studio movie. to make a story about, you know, make an old man story when you could be making a story about a young man or like, and even as a boxer, he's sort of like, you know, can, you know, he's a little bit washed up or whatever. But, you know, essentially a young, virile man with a romantic interest and a, you know, an athletic storyline and all this sort of stuff.

I think another thing that's really interesting about the space that this movie occupies not to be, you know, Cynthia Ariana about it. it's not just the I think there's interesting stuff here that's not even about the most horrific stuff. It's not even about the violence. But there is a social code at play here. Yeah. With how, you know, all of these people

live their lives within a community and, you know, the expectation. You get this a lot with Emily Watson's character and the expectations around she is fundamentally expected to stand by her husband who is in prison for the duration of his prison stay, who knows how long that will be. And you have this love story between her and Daniel Day Lewis,

and then they were basically like high school's sweethearts. And, you know, he dumped her because he was going to jail. And, you know, she ends up with someone who's in jail and has a child. And, you know, that's why their whole romance is not only, just taboo but like carries the threat of violence and you know brian cox being her father you know yeah she's expected to behave a certain way because of her position you know yeah i would never equate the IRA with the mob obviously but like these are very similar social codes like what you're saying where you have this you know um very the set borders of a

local community that is tied through family and close-knit friendships and, you know, everybody's sort of in the same business. In this case, they're, you know, they're in the same, you know, sort of a revolutionary struggle. And it is very important for everybody to cue to the line or else it all starts to fall apart, right? Like the solidarity of it. It's kind of similar in movies about like unions on strike. what I mean. I think about something like pride or something like that.

It's kind of a movie about infighting when it's the most interesting. Yes. And because of all of those things do require these social codes to hold, because without it, you do lose that solidarity. And that's basically the best weapon that you have is that everybody is together and can't be broken. And so what you do is you lionize the prisoner's wife. You know what I mean? You make sure to mention how they are, you know, the best of all of us and, and, you know, make it this, you know, noble calling so that even if they might notice it, they might notice the fact that they're getting the raw deal here, but they are doing it for noble reasons. And so, you know, nobody kind of steps out of line, but this movie does show what does happen when you do step out of line is, the, you know, the organism, the larger organism, can't abide that. Mm-hmm.

So it's very interesting. It's a complicated story that I think gets simplified in a way that makes it less interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It spends way more time with the least interesting aspects of the story, which is unfortunately the love story, some of those boxing matches. I don't think any of these boxing matches, with the exception of the one that happens, timed to the car bombing, that basically is like, and now we were in act three of the movie the second that that happens. Yeah.

The boxing matches are never really timed to the drama to really make us care about that. But, like, he's also, you know, opening a boxing center for young kids, and we never really see him, like, with the kid, you know. creating, you know, this positive outlet for his community. We never really see any of that. I think the strongest relationship in this movie is Danny, Daniel DeLewis' character, and Ike, the boxing trainer slash the Kenstock character. Great performance by Ken Stop. And I think that's obviously why, you know, the story unfolds and the way it does.

I think Sheridan probably knows that that's the most interesting or the, you know, the strongest bond in the movie as well. I, when we get on to the other side of the plot description, I want to talk about the leads and how well they do with this story, with the love story, because I don't think I would put my, you know, my, you know, my, uh, dissonable. satisfaction, I guess, maybe, with the movie on either one of them. And yet it really is, like you say, it is, that's the weak part of the movie is their romance. So we'll get into that, certainly. It's, and like, I think the dynamic of their relationship, you know, their

former lovers, they haven't seen each other in over a decade. She moved on to someone else and now has a child, but she's still also tied to that person, but they still have this connection. It's so soapy. Yeah. But Jim Sheridan is a filmmaker who I think is like diametrically opposed to like giving you that. So you almost wish that there was some other dynamic that, you know, played to his assets, which I don't want to say is like tragedy. But, you know, if the script was tweaked a little bit to make it seem like more of a Jim Sheridan fit. but it really isn't.

Well, maybe even if it was just, if it was her movie, her POV, that we're sort of experiencing everything through rather than his. Maybe if it was the boxer's wife or the prisoner's wife or whatever instead of the boxer. This did make me realize that we get Daniel Day Lewis romances about as often as we don't because it's the weakest Daniel Day Lewis romance. This is the one of the things I wanted to talk about after the plot description. So let's get down. We'll save it.

Let's get down to that. So before we do, Chris, do you want to, actually, when does this come out? Yes. Sorry, I'll just. It's our last September episode. Because we are on the eve of Daniel Day Lewis's return in anemone, directed by his son. I will, at this point that we are recording, have just, I will, by the time you listen to this, rather, I will have just seen anemone at the New York Film Festival. So I am very much looking forward to that one.

World premiering at New York Film Festival. Very excited. All right. I have always wanted us to do this movie because of Daniel Day Lewis, and he broke out of his non-retirement that Joe loves to side-eye, so it's the perfect timing. Did you also see that he apparently made some type of public comment that he's like, I shouldn't have used that word. That's not what I know.

That's all I ask. Thank you for acknowledging that it's silly for actors to use terms of. terms like retirement if, you know, you just sort of work whenever a good project comes along anyway. That's all it has to be. That's fine. All right, Chris, do you want to tell our listeners why they should be signing up for This Had Oscar Buzz's Patreon? Listener, we have a Patreon. It is just as fun, if not more fun, than our main feed. We call it This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. For $5 a month, you're going to get two bonus episodes, first of which comes on the first Friday of the month.

That is our exception-themed episodes. These are conversations about movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric of great expectations and disappointing results, but managed to score an Oscar nomination or two. This month, we talked about AI Artificial Intelligence, Stephen Spielberg's masterpiece. We've talked about, you know, fun movies we love, like Contact, My Best Friend's Wedding. We've talked about masterpieces like Mulholland Drive and far from heaven. We've talked about decidedly not masterpieces like House of Gucci and Hitchcock and Nine. Yes.

The Lovely Bones. We've had guest episodes. We're going to have some more. Next month, you'll want to join us because we are talking about none other than best original song nominee, Country Strong. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Here we go. We're doing it.

We're finally doing it. This is this headhouse. And then what's that other episode, Joe? You're going to get it on the third Friday of the month. These are what we call excursions. It's a deep dive into Oscar Ephemera we love to obsess about. Including this month, we did another recap of a Hollywood reported actress roundtable. We love to talk about those.

This month, our listeners voted on us doing the 2015 roundtable with eight actresses. You might think that that is not enough actresses. It is too much for a roundtable. It is a fact too many. Yes, it is. We've also done things like talk about EW Fall Movie Preview Issues. We've recapped old award shows like Golden Globes, Indy Spirits, MTV Movie Awards. We host our own annual award show over there that we call the superlatives.

It is a wonderful time. Come on over to our Patreon, Turbulent Brilliance over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. All right, Chris. We're there. Prepare yourself, lubricate the vocal cords. You're going to be doing a 60-second plot description of The Boxer once I read the following stats. So we are talking about this week, 1997's The Boxer, directed by Jim Sheridan, written by Terry George and Jim Sheridan, starring Daniel Day Lewis, Emily Watson, Brian Cox, Ken Stott, among others, premiered in limited. release on December 31st, 1997, right at the end of the eligibility period, for going wide the

following week on January 8th, 1998. I am pulling out my stopwatch. Chris file. Hold on. Yes. Stop watch. Stop watch. There we go. All right. Are you ready? Yeah. Are you set? Sure. The boxer plot description. And go. All right. So we meet Danny Flynn, played by Daniel Day Lewis. He is. Coming out of jail after a long prison sentence, he went to jail, like, as a young man, being a fall guy for the IRA. He is a boxer, so he starts a boxing club for children along with his former trainer. He also meets up with his former love who he broke up with before going to jail because he's like, yeah, I'm going to jail. She marries another man, has a kid with him.

He ends up in jail. Her father is played by Brian Cox. He basically is trying to broker some of the peace with the IRA, and he's in this kind of position where a lot of his other followers, including one who mostly antagonizes Danny, is opposed to him, basically. In one of Danny's matches, there is a car bomb assassination that goes off right outside, a car bomb assassination of a police officer, and then there's an ensuing riot where Emily Watson's son. burns down the gymnasium because he's mad that they were dating, or not really dating, but like flirting, you know, but he's mad. And anyway, then Danny has, they think that Danny gets kidnapped and they think that they're going to kill him, but they really kill the guy that opposes him. Meanwhile, his former trainer gets executed in the street and then he, Emily Watson

and the son basically like run off together. The end. 30 seconds over. That's pretty good. What was I going to mention? You said something, and I was going to react to it. And now I can't remember. That is fine. Good job on the 60-second plot description. Yeah. What should we get into first?

Why did the boxer have Oscar buzz? I think it's pretty sort of cut and dried here. Why this movie had Oscar Buzz? I think the combination of Jim Sheridan and Daniel Day Lewis had worked quite well twice in the past eight years. So they were on a streak. They were the David O. Russell and Jennifer Lawrence, and this was joy, I guess. I guess it didn't quite get as far as joy got.

Yeah. It starts with My Left Foot, 1989, which is the surprise movie out of the UK that often sort of takes the best picture race by the storm. You see that a lot, especially in. the 1990s. I think obviously, you know, movies from the UK were a bigger presence in general in the 70s and 80s, 60s, 70s and 80s with the Oscars. I think as you get into the 90s, it's more these kind of unheralded My Left Foot, The Crying Game, the Full Monty, you know, movies like that. And this one was, you know, Daniel DeLewis, who had been in things, he was obviously

in a room with a view and my beautiful laundrette and, you know, several movies like that. But this was a big breakthrough and playing a real-life character and Christy Brown, playing somebody who had, you know, a significant disability and, you know, communicated very unusually. And so all of these things added up to ultimately a, if not an out of left field, Oscar, win, certainly an Oscar win where most people were predicting that Tom Cruise was going to win Best Actor that year, Fourborn on the Fourth of July. So I'm trying to think of what I would compare that upset to, where it's like he was the guy running in second place, but people

were really, really betting on the favorite. Yeah, I'm trying to think of like a good, a good example, particularly in lead actor. really Olivia Coleman because not definitely she and Lanthamos were more established but also Daniel Day Lewis kind of

ran the season ahead of that because the, I guess, some of the surprise of it. I think you can also credit my left foot as being like the first, it wasn't the first Oscar win for Miramax and the Weinsteins but really put them on the Oscar map as a major

player. It's kind of their first big success. It wins both of those acting awards. Did it also win a screenplay award for Sherritt and... I believe, let's see. It won, no, just actor and supporting actress that was nominated for picture, director, and screenplay

as well. So, and then... I watched Brenda Fricker last night, and so I married an axe murderer. I love that you watched that. That is a comedically genius performance. She's so funny in that. Everybody's so funny in that. She's the best. She's very funny. She's so horny for Anthony LaPalia. It's crazy. I'm on the weekly

World News, Gathex, Gista it. She's obsessed with the Weekly World News. She's the best. I love it. She's so horny for Anthony Lopalia, who among us. Oh, that was the thing I was thinking of during your plot description, and we'll maybe get to it. I'll jot it down and talk about later, but it was something about Brian Cox. Hold on. Okay, so.

Sheridan follows that up with the field, which gets Richard Harris a nomination. I want to watch this movie. Never seen it. I feel like I will like this movie. Yes, but also I just, calling a movie The Field really does set expectations. Set it up for success with me? Well, yes, but sort of set it up for, you know, like, oh, girl, that's going to be long and slow. A long, slow movie called The Field.

And then 1993, in the name of the father, which doesn't win any Oscars, but does a good bit better nominations. Why, seven Oscar nominations, including. Once again, Best Picture and Best Director, and in this case, Best Adapted Screenplay. Daniel Day Lewis is nominated for Best Actor, loses to Tom Hanks for Philadelphia. Emma Thompson is nominated twice that year, once for, in the name of the father, as supporting actress, losing to Anna Pacquin for the piano, and then she's, that's the same year, she's nominated for the remains of the day in lead. And then Pete Possilthwaite was sort of a surprise Oscar morning, nomination, which really does give a sense of, this is a movie people just really, really liked.

Paislethwaite plays Daniel D. Louis' father in that movie. He ends up losing to Tommy Lee Jones for The Fugitive. Really great. When Brian Cox showed up in this movie, I was like, oh, not Paislethwaite. Okay. Yeah. Really, really great movie. Maybe one of the, like, Apex, you know, IRA Troubles, you know, movies. I think it's really, you know, incredibly. Very rousing. Very, very good. Because it's also a legal drama, too. Yes. It's the thing.

It's like this kind of hybrid of microgenre. Yes. So I want to talk about the Daniel Day Lewis of it all because, as I said, before my left foot, he's in things like my beautiful laundrette, a great movie. Oh, he's in Gandhi. I don't think I ever knew that that he's in Gandhi. That's very interesting. He's uncredited as a child vandal in Sunday Bloody Sunday. I will admit I did not notice him in that movie.

I think he's incredible as a room of the view. As the priciest man, whoever strode across a grass court, tennis court. Just a perfect movie. Everyone in that movie is perfect. Yep, yep, it's true. He's so good. He's so good. And he hasn't really, I mean, there's veins of,

similar, like, I think that prissiness comes through in a very macho way in something like there will be blood as Daniel Plainview, but it's not, you know, not coming from a certain sense of ego. Daniel DeLuess is incredible at, like, portraying ego writ large on screen. Yes, yes. 1988, he's in Philip Kaufman's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, a movie I've never seen. Have you ever seen that movie? Nor have I. Daniel DeLewis, Juliet Benosh, Lena Olin, sounds hot.

I'll say that. So I don't know what it's about. So maybe, uh, I'm up the wrong. It's about sexy stuff. Well, then see. So who was right? Yeah. While being unbearably light. Yes. Um, my left foot in 1989, as I said. So he wins the Oscar. Uh, and then the 19. Basically instantly becomes considered the actor of his generation. And yet in the 90s, he misses more than he hits in general. where I think the last of the Mohicans, it is a surprise that that movie doesn't do better than it does. I think it gets, you know, some nominations, but it was definitely... I believe a sound nomination.

It had the stuff to be this sort of like big sweeping post dances with wolves kind of epic, and it doesn't quite get that. I think in a different world, I think if the Daniel Day Lewis of now, you know, whatever, like take age out of the equation. but like if the Daniel Day Lewis reputation of now came out with the Last of the Mohicans, like there's no way he would have missed Best Actor nomination. Same with Michael Mann, too. Yes.

1993, no, this is interesting. 1993, the Age of Innocence, we love it. We've talked about it a lot. Doesn't get nominated for that, but that is the same year as in the name of the father. So I guess you can say that that snub is sort of blunted, although I can't imagine that even if there wasn't in the name of the father that year, I don't think he's getting nominated for that movie. I think that movie in general was sort of undervalued in a few years. Definitely. It came out. It was supposed to come out the year before. It gets pushed because of,

you know, the editing process for that movie. It debuts, I think, in September of that year. So it's like, it gets forgotten, but it's also kind of tainted goods because it's pushed. Yeah. Yeah. So, 1996 is his next. feature. It's the Crucible. Big, big, big, Oscar expect. God, I can't talk. Big, big, big Oscar expectations for that one. And it does not come through for the most part. The screenplay gets nominated. Joan Allen gets nominated in supporting actress. But the Age of Innocence Reunion of Daniel Day Lewis and Winona Ryder fall short.

And neither one of them get nominated. How do you feel about Nicholas Heitner's The Crucible? I don't think I've watched it as an adult, but I remember thinking, oh, this is fine. Like, people talk about this like it's terrible, but. I feel like if you got like a group of like your gay besties in the living room and I'll watch The Crucible, I think everybody would have a hoot and a holler of a time. I think it would be. Oh, really? Okay. See, the other thing is like, well, it's the crucible. What can you do at this point 40 years on with that material?

I think Daniel Day Lewis is going. big in that movie, as is Winona Ryder. And I think that's part of the reason why Joan Allen's performance comes across so well, because she's not. She's very much sort of, you know, keeping her pain close to the chest. But I can't say I'm not entertained. And again, I saw this movie when I was 16 years old. So, like, I, you know, probably can't be trusted. I definitely now, with the perspective of adult, I know it's not a good movie. I know it's not like technically like a very good movie, but it's watchable. Um, so that's the thing he makes just before the boxer. And then the boxer, he gets the Golden Globe nomination. We'll talk

about that. Um, but that doesn't sort of, you know, carry on to, I definitely want to talk about that year's golden globes, by the way, because it's, it's, they're an interesting one for a lot of reasons. Um, but he doesn't get that nomination. And then it's five years until his next movie, obviously it wasn't supposed to take that long because Gangs of New York was supposed to be released earlier than that but it ends up being five years until his next movie and then that next movie is the

movie that like completely changes his reputation as an actor not I mean it does change it it's not like you know all of a sudden we didn't know we had that in him or whatever

but like all of a sudden he becomes the great screen chameleon of our time, like able to take on these huge characters with, you know, nobody else could, you know, deliver something this kind of grand and often villainous. Obviously, this is followed by There Will Be Blood and then it's followed by Lincoln, which is, of course, not villainous, but it is another... How dare you just hopscotch over nine? Well, and also The Ballad of Jack and Rose.

But I think those three movies, obviously, Gangs of New York, there will be blood, Lincoln, which all happened within, you know, a decade. It's perhaps the most dynamic, you know, career span of acting, just in a span of three out of five movies, you know. It just, it let the ability to go that big. Though, I mean, I think part of what makes Lincoln work is that it's big, you know, there's no such thing as doing a performance of a Tony Kushner script that's not big. The bigness of Lincoln isn't in the performance he gives. It's in the expectation of the fact that, like, who else could put this character on and make us. And the whole thing doesn't collapse. And make us believe it. Exactly. There was no other actor who could pull that off. And, um, and he, did it, and he did it, you know, so well, he then earns his, his, his third Oscar.

That is one of my big question marks, though, of what, what changes if that is ultimately a Liam Neeson performance, as it was originally supposed to be? Yeah. Well, Liam Neeson would probably have an Oscar. Well, Liam Neeson would have gone through the South and rescued his daughter and, you know, yeah. Saved the day. I also think it's...

Liam Mason would have called Cola Scola and said you are about to be taken, mother. I also think it's notable that for an actor who, you know, within... From 1989 to 1997, so within the span of eight years, worked with the same director three times, and, you know, was so loyal to Jim Sheridan that he ultimately becomes, you know, the actor who wildly succeeds with you know, Scorsese, followed by Paul Thomas Anderson, followed by Spielberg. It's just, it's crazy. What are you laughing at? You're laughing at me. Nothing. I was, I was remembering my favorite line from Phantom Thread. Which is. Well, no, this is what I was going to say is we're

currently actually in his longest period of not having a performance because Phantom Thread was in 2017. And as much as like all of these big performances we're talking about, are the kind of, like, definitive Daniel Day-Lewis performance. There's something about Phantom Thread that feels like the one to remember because it does return him to this, you know, I mean, he's always playing an ego. But it's so funny, too, as he's just, like, completely undone by having the expectations of another person who he loves deeply thrust upon him. But are you here to kill me?

Do you have a gun? So let's talk about that, though. Let's talk about Daniel Day-Lewis as a romantic figure because you're right in the fact that it happens, you know, obviously a lot. He's a, you know, he's a major leading man in movie. So obviously, last to the Mohicans, age of innocence, the crucible, although that sort of turns, you know, the romance, you know, obviously very sour. The boxer. I mean, do you count nine? as a romantic hero that's sort of again a little bit of like he's you know the romantic hero who

has you know never nothing's worked out for i mean that movie's such a note worthy disaster that you almost forget that he is in that movie i think it's deeply strange that he's in that movie especially given his selective career but yeah maybe it's just that he loves having these You know, large challenges. In the boxer, he has to train, get physically to the level of being an athlete. In Lincoln, he has to look and sound, because we do have sound recordings of Abraham Lincoln, like Abraham Lincoln, but also carry everyone's, you know, the weight of American history of expectation. And then in nine, well, he has to sing. He's got a speaking in an Italian accent.

Yes. But then you arrive at Phantom Thread, which is, for as much as I have reservations about that movie, very clearly, his most successful, you know, screen romance, such as it is, since the early 90s, right? Since the age of innocence last of the Mohicans era. So I guess I was originally going to ask, is Daniel DeLewis a good romantic lead? And now that I sort of look at all of those examples, I do have to say yes, but it is interesting that his biggest successes have come in movies that have almost actively rejected him as a romantic lead. Right. Like he is... Even in Lincoln, you know, the relationship between Abraham and Mary Todd in that movie is distant.

You know what I mean? It's sort of like there is there is pronounced distance in that. I mean, the thing about the boxer compared to some of those is that, you know, the boxer is almost more normy romance. Very, very normy. Phantom Thread and Age of Innocence are both obviously very tortured romances, right? Listen, there's a lot of romances that are more normy than Phantom Thread. I think you could probably name some real, real fraught romances that are more normy than Phantom Thread.

I mean, Phantom Thread is a perfect movie about a marriage. Like, this is how marriage works. All I can say about that. Chris throwing his marriage privilege in my face. It's fine. I'm not throwing marriage privilege. I'm just saying. Carry on, carry on.

You torture of, you know, especially if perhaps like myself, if you are someone with a massive ego that you might have. to check that sometimes. Calling your husband to make sure he's okay and he hasn't been poisoned by any mushrooms or anything. He has an ego too. It's fine. All this to say, the best that Daniel DeLewis has maybe ever done, Normie Romance, is my beautiful laundrette. I was going to say that too. He's not licking anyone's necks in any of these other movies, is he? I don't love my beautiful laundrette as much as other people seem to, but the romance stuff of that movie, I think, is very good.

Very, very good. So, yeah, I think this being the to-date, most recent collaboration between Daniel Day Lewis and Jim Sheridan, I do feel like there is a sense of, you know, that was the 90s for both of them, right? Like, they were sort of each other's.

I don't think there was any sort of pronounced falling out or anything like that, at least nothing that I have ever heard of. I will, you know, leave myself open to being wrong, but I don't think I had ever heard of anything. But it does feel like they both kind of, you know, got everything, you know, they wanted to out of that professional relationship. But who knows?

Well, shortly after this, Jim Sheridan starts working on in America. That was obviously an incredibly personal story. And on top of that, you know, that movie had kind of a delayed release. situation, you know, it premieres at I believe TIF the year before it ultimately hits American theater. And then Jim Sheridan's career just goes absolutely

bananas weird. Cuckoo Bananas. Get Richard Dytreyan, the 50 Cent movie. Brothers, which we've covered ages ago on this podcast. Mommy and Uncle Tommy have sex all the time. Yep. Natalie Portman, Toby McGuire, Jake

Jillen Hall. Then Dream House. Have you ever seen Dreamhouse? with a sure has Daniel Craig Rachel Weiss and Naomi

went majorly wrong with that movie but it feels like nobody's really at fault except maybe there might have been some

like studio interference with that movie that movie doesn't work Daniel Craig is pretty good in it for especially to the scale of how not good

that movie I remember it having a fairly obvious twist that takes kind of forever to get to the twist of it?

Uh-huh, and the trailer just like fully gives it away. Does it really? Okay. Yeah. And then the secret scripture from 2016 that starred Eric Banna, Theo James, Rooney Mara, Jack Rayner, Vanessa Redgrave. That's like a movie that premiered at Tiff and then... I was going to say this feels like one of your Tiff Gala pejorative movies, yeah. A woman keeps a diary of her extended stay at a mental hospital. All right.

Okay. Like, Rooney's making that, like, right after she makes Carol. Like, or maybe I guess she might have made that before she made Carol and it got released after the fact. Yep, 2016, Toronto International Film Festival. There it is. Never seen it. So there's that. And now he hasn't made a feature film since.

He's got a couple of things that. IMDB lists as being in pre-production, but they don't seem to have a whole lot of information about either one of them. So I would probably say they're very pre. I would emphasis on the pre-production. If anybody knows the status of either old stone face or carry babies, let us know. But he's done, hasn't even done any television. He's just sort of working on these pre-production movies. So I hate to like talk about this where it's just like, I don't know a ton about what Jim Sheridan is doing right now. But I need to watch the field because I want to watch a movie that I like wholeheartedly have no reservations about love. Yeah. So I'll catch up

to the field. You should do it. Either way, always rooting for Jim Sheridan. I think Jim Sheridan is just a very sort of 90s coded director in general. And I think that's not necessarily even something that feels like a slight. I think it's his sensibility, his sense of, I mean, again, the boxer gets released months before the Good Friday Agreement is signed. And like that obviously is a huge, you know, marker for, you know, it is what is generally, you know, attributed to being the end of what is commonly, you know, recognized as the troubles. And with that, because so many of Jim Sheridan's movies were so, you know, concentrated in, you know, Ireland and what was going on. And it does feel like he, in America, was probably a sense of moving on to the

next thing, right? Moving on to, you know, obviously to America. Emily Watson in this movie, I want to say, and again, just stunning. stunning fate like just again being a being a is this peak emily Watson

like she's peak Emily Watson it comes directly in between her two Oscar nominations she hasn't been nominated since since Hillary and Jackie

she is I should mention essentially the third well besides the kids I guess the third adult lead in Hamnet I think she's very good

there. She's in more of the movie than, like, Joe Alloan is. Yes, absolutely. And I think has some, like, really good scenes with her and Jesse Buckley. She was great last year in the Killian Murphy movie that I thought he was fantastic in that has a very non-specific

title that I hate. She got the Berlin Prize for that. Small things like these. Small things like these. She's terrifying. She plays the nun at a, you know, essentially one of the Magdalene orphanages. And did you see her in God's creatures with Paul Meskell? No, but I heard she was great. I heard she was great in that. People like to forget that they bury movies, but they fully buried that movie. And she's great in it. I mean, she's a tremendous actress. She's, I mean, people forget. We talked about Punch Drunk Love very recently. I think she's really, really great in that. She was, I didn't see Chernobyl, but everybody who I talked to who did, you know, sort of sung her praises in that. I don't, that was one of those.

ones where it was like, everything's really bad. I don't think I want to put myself through Chernobyl. But everybody who saw that seemed to really like it. She's, she would be in a lot of these really, really good movies in sort of small roles. She's essentially used as a site gag in Synecicki, New York, but is such a good visual gag that I can't even begrudge how small of a part she has in that movie. Do you remember? Because she's the Samantha Morton replacement or Samantha Morton's the Emily Watson replacement. I'm pretty sure it's that that she's the Samantha Morton replacement. I just think that's very funny. What a masterpiece. But like she's great, however briefly in Anna Karenina. She's great, however briefly in Warhorse. Genuinely don't remember

her in the theory of everything, but you know what? I bet she was great in there. She's great, however briefly in Everest, which we've talked about on this podcast. She's never really gone away, you know what I mean? But I don't think she's ever really been given anything close to the opportunity that she was given in breaking the waves, which, again, her very first movie. So in a way that is really depressing that she broke out in such a big way in that movie, and she would never again get a role, not even, I would say, not even that good. But that substantial, that meaty of a role, you know what I mean, to sort of dig into again. And she quickly gets sidelined with mother role. She's the mom in Warhorse.

But, like, she's never given a bad performance. She's probably, like, the best performance in Red Dragon. Yeah, right. She's the blind woman in Red Dragon. She's done a ton of TV movies and miniseries. She was in the 2017 Little Women. She was in the 2018 King Lear. She was in Dune Prophecy just last year, which I know a lot of people really hated.

I didn't hate it, but once I sort of realized that nobody was talking about it, I kind of sort of slipped away from me because TV dramas are a big lift, and sometimes you have to triage. But I thought she's essentially like the main antagonist in that, and she's great, as she is always. So, unless we forget, Angela's ashes. We'll have to do that as an exception at some point. As an exception. We have to. We have to. I wonder if she's got anything coming up.

She was in Kingsman the Golden Circle. Never saw it. No idea. She's again with a couple ones on IMDB that are listed as pre-production, a movie with Harriet Walter called Late in Summer. We'll see if that becomes anything. a movie called Quicksand with her and Toby Kebill. We'll see if anything comes of that. So, you know, we love Emily.

I think what some of this is in terms of the meatiness of the roles that she's given of what you're saying is she has this really unique quality of tenderness and intensity, you know, which it's. Like, well, Breaking the Waves is like this kind of lightning in a bottle moment for an actor like her where it's like that she is exactly what that thing needs. But then after that, it's kind of hard to find something that kind of matches that. So you see her going in one of either direction, but never really kind of getting to show the full facets. When did you end up seeing Breaking in the Waves? Because obviously you would have been too young to see it when it first came out. I saw it in high school. Did you see it in high school?

That's cool. I think it was one of my early Netflix disc movies. To have had Netflix in high school is an experience I wish I'd have been able to experience. Well, and I was so obsessed with Dancer in the Dark, so I would have seen it shortly after I saw Dancer in the Dark. Got it. That makes sense. As it was, I sort of hounded my local blockbuster as I got into later high school for more and more interesting things. but if I had the opportunity to like, you know, plum through Netflix in high school where I could rent things without the prying eyes of friends or, you know, siblings or whatever, that would have been great. I would have loved that. You'd be watching some gay shit. Well, not even just some gay shit, but just like some, like interesting. Like, I wasn't going to be able to go to the movies and see like an art movie in high school. Do you know what I mean?

Like, so I would have probably been, you know, I don't know, I would have seen some really interesting stuff, I feel like. would have at least, like, not had to wait until I was, like, 25 to, you know, discover some of the really sort of interesting directors of the 90s. Anyway, what if... Oh, hey, look at this. Hillary and Jackie is now rentable. Okay. Maybe I'll watch Hillary and Jackie. I definitely watched that movie.

You should watch Hillary and Jackie. She's good in it. Rachel Griffiths is good in it. Who directed that movie? Anand Tucker, who I believe also directed... Shop Girl. Shop Girl. Yes, we've done.

definitely done in Anand Tucker. John and Tucker had a movie at Tiff a couple years ago that I almost saw in that it lost like a time slot face off with something. So that was too bad. Anywho, any who, what else do we want to say? Three Golden Globe nominations. So, okay, let's get into this here because 1997 Golden Globes were notable for a lot of reasons. It's one of those, because it was the Titanic year, I think a lot of people,

remember it um this movie opened on new year's eve and bombed at the box office and didn't win any awards as titanic is raking in the dough this is the thing people forget too because it wasn't just titanic like titanic obviously right was the biggest one but like goodwill hunting was a huge december hit that year scream too as it gets was as well scream scream two came out in 1997 as good as it gets like you just said was a was a big december hit so like it's just a perfect storm for a movie like this to get completely buried. And if there was a movie that was going to open very, very, very late and sort of get like platformed at the end of the year and then open proper in January, Wag the Dog was

the one that did well. You know what I mean? Like, you know, the boxer kind of got aced out there. But it did get three Golden Globe nominations, including Best Director and Best Picture Drama. So it was definitely like one of those movies. So the Golden Globes, particularly, do you agree with me? that the Golden Globes have now, that they've been sort of resurrected, are a little too

respectable for your taste? In terms of the nominees, in terms of like the movie nominees, like, there's, I miss the old days of a classic, like, Globesy pick and be like, oh, globes, you know what I mean? And like, my best friend's wedding getting a Best Picture nomination? That, certainly. But, like, even in, like, drama. Like, I guess Kate Winslet getting nominated for Lee is an example that, like, the Globes. haven't entirely changed. But I feel like those things were sort of seeing maybe less and less.

I don't know. I'm wary. I'm wary of it. But I like the fact. I think I understand what you're saying. I don't think it's quite like that because the globes still do make very globesy, not always great choices. I think they are striving for respectability in a way that I don't love. We'll see. We'll see how it shakes out. But I think even when the, the, the, Globes nominations weren't necessarily bad, they had sort of tendencies that I thought were fun to sort of explore. And the fact that like Stephen Spielberg and Amistad were nominated for Best Picture Drama and Best Director that year are a good example of that, where if a movie was, if they were put in the hard sell to a movie that was maybe not quite connecting, they'd be able to get it

onto the Globes lineup. And then the Oscars would have been too difficult. And that's sort of what we see here is like Amistad is nominated for picture, for director for Jaiman Hansu, and best actor. And then ultimately at the Oscars, I think, was it only Anthony Hopkins in supporting actor? Or did it get maybe a craft? Amistad, correct.

So I don't know. I just think that's interesting. So the boxer is nominated for Best Pickers. drama against Titanic, which ultimately wins, the Titanic, as Michelle Pfeiffer says. Amistad, Goodwill Hunting, L.A. Confidential, and the boxer. So the ultimate Best Picture nominees that year, Titanic stayed, L.A. Confidential stayed, Goodwill Hunting stayed, as good as it gets from the comedy side of things. And was the Fulmonte?

Yes, the Fulmonte was also nominated at the Globes for Best Picture Comedy. a musical. Best actor drama, I think, is really interesting because you get into, hold on, hold on, hold on. Where am I looking? There we go. Best actor drama, Daniel DeLewis is nominated for The Boxer, also nominated were Goodwill Hunting, Matt Damon, Leonardo DiCaprio for Titanic, Jaiman Hansu, as I said, for Amistad, and then the winner is Peter Fonda for Uly's Gold.

which I have not seen. Nor have I. Pleas a beekeeper as far as I know. Jack Nicholson, who won the Oscar, was in comedy that year. Dustin Hoffman, who's nominated for Wag the Dog, is in comedy. And then Robert Duval, who's nominated for the Apostle, isn't nominated at all. So the Globes, again, it's just where did you get your, you know, new actor of the next, you know, 30 years faceoff between Matt Damon and Leonardo Carprio? You got that at the Globes rather than the Oscars because Leo got snubbed.

And then the, you know, the Oscar morning snubs are more like, why wasn't Leo DiCaprio nominated and nobody's really talking about, well, Daniel Day Lewis missed or Jiamen Ansu missed. The other one other funny story that I remember about this Globes is this was the year that Christine Lottie was in the bathroom when she won four. for Chicago Hope, but this was also the year when Jack Nicholson wins for as good as it gets, and one of his co-nominees was Jim Carrey for Liar-Lyre, he gets up there and he sort of points out Jim Carrey. And he's like, you know, my fellow nominees, and he points at Jim Carrey. And then he turns around, bends over, and starts talking out of his ass the way that Ace Ventura did. Jack Nicholson is a treasure. Just an award. Season treasure. We're happy to still have him for as long as we have him. Anyway, do you, did you

recall watching that year's globes or would that have been too young for you? I'm sorry I keep asking you, like, what did you do when you were 12? No, thank you for making me canonically young. I do believe I watch this Golden Globes. No? Yes, I did watch this Golden Globes. Bert Reynolds won for Boogie Nights. Kim Basinger won for L.A. Confidential. Burt Reynolds wins for Boogie Nights against, like, everyone's intentions, except for maybe the good folks at New Line Cinema, because Bert Reynolds was like talking shit about this movie after release and didn't really want a campaign because he hated the process of it. Which is so funny because if you watch that Bert Reynolds documentary, He wanted, he sort of like spoke out in favor of award shows early on in his career and was like definitely wanted that public approval.

And it's so funny that it ended up coming for this movie that he ultimately just like did not believe in, which. Well, and he did a, I think he did an about face after he won that Golden Club. And then after the Oscars continued, you know, talking shit about Paul Thomas Anderson in the movie. but that's an interesting that's six nominees that year for supporting actor in a drama or sorry it was supporting actor in a movie um Reynolds Anthony Hopkins for Amistad Greg Kinnear for as good as it gets Robin Williams for Goodwill Hunting all get Oscar nominated and then you have John Voight for the Rainmaker of this had Oscar Buzz movie and Rupert Everett for my best friend's wedding this had Oscar Buzz the Patreon selection um don't think I'd have nominated Voight although I don't not like him in that movie. Rupert Everett would have been a great nominee and a great comedy nominee. And the comedy nominee that year ends up coming and supporting actress, because you get Joan Cusack in and out, who I believe was not nominated for the Golden Globe. But I will double check that right now. Joan Cusat? No, she was nominated for the Golden Globe. Yeah, she's nominated.

Everybody at the Globe was nominated who got an Oscar nomination. Except for Sigourney Weaver. Right, who was replaced by Mini Driver at the Oscars. Um, yeah, Angelina Jolie won the TV, uh, supporting actress for George Wallace. Gia. No, Gia was the next year. George Wallace was this year, the, the TNT movie. Yes. What an interesting lineup does is.

I don't remember George Wallace. Angelina Jolie, her co-star from that, Mayor Winningham, who would end up winning the Emmy. Um, Jolie Fisher for Ellen, because this was the Ellen coming out here. Um, Della Reese for Touched by an Angel and Gloria Rubin for ER. The Globes were wild. Those supporting categories where they just sort of gathered, they just gathered folks together. Kind of amazing. Who was the actor in that one? Supporting actor in a television. On a trivia night, you need to do like two truths and a lie on Golden Globe television acting nominees, and Della Reese has to be in there.

She was nominated a lot, too, I will say. She was nominated often. The actress in a mini-series or motion picture made for television, I'm going to give you these. This was the year that Alfree Woodard won everything for Ms. Evers' boys. She won the Emmy. She won the Golden Globe. Ellen Barkin for Before Women Had Wings, which I'm pretty sure was an Oprah produced movie. Right? Let's see.

Yep, there's Oprah, right there. Oprah Winfrey, Before Women Head Wings. Meryl Streep in First Do No Harm, which is a movie about a medical something or other. Jenna Malone for something called... Bastard Out of Carolina? No, this wasn't the year of Bastard Out of Carolina. Something called Hope, a film directed by Goldie Hawn,

the story of a town secret, a family's crisis, and a young girl's struggle to reveal the truth. Christine Lottie, Jenam Alone, Catherine O'Hara, and J.T. Walsh. In Hope. Goldie Hans, Hope. just wanted to throw that out there. And then

Vanessa Redgrave for a movie I definitely saw back then called Bella Mafia, which was a movie about all of the Mafia widows. Awesome. One to watch. One too watch. All the mafia widows banding together to like do something. It is Vanessa Redgrave, Nastassia

Kinski, Ileana Douglas, and Jennifer Tilly. Correct me if I'm wrong. None of them are Italian. I probably I would agree. Certainly, Vanessa Redgrave is not. Nastassi Kinski is not. I don't think Jennifer Tilly is. And Ileana Douglas is the only one I'd say maybe. Who knows? But anyway, Globe for Alfrey Woodard for Miss Ever's Boys. I mean, this is one of the ways that maybe the Golden Globes did it

better than the Oscars. Though, obviously, Miss Ever's Boys is a TV movie. But we love all awards for Alfred Woodard. But also, performance of the year. Nominated as a the gloves, not nominated at the Oscars, Pam Greer, Jackie Brown. Yeah, I want to say, too, about Miss Ever's Boys, because my giant vulture piece on TV movies finally came out recently. Miss Ever's Boys comes up a lot in that one in terms of just like, you know, back when HBO TV movies were not only, like, the thing that I wrote was, which I do believe is true, is TV movies during that 1990s run for HBO, like, that was prestige television.

were not prestige television. Comedies were not prestige television. Those were what passed for. Not what passed for. Like those were prestige TV. That was where the, you know, A-list talent was going. TV dramas were cop shows, lawyer shows, doctor shows. You know, sitcoms were sitcoms.

And it's just interesting that like the whole thing now has become totally flipped on its head. Anyway, back to the box. Bella Mafia available nowhere. Oh, it's too bad. It's too bad. I also take that back. I'm pretty sure Leanna Douglas is a talent. Let's see if we can buy a Bella Mafia DVD off of eBay.

On eBay.com. Is it available in your library, perhaps? Maybe. You check that. But then there's just a DVD here for $3.80. On eBay? Get it. Yes.

Get it. Get it. Listeners, let us know if you would do a live watch of Bella Mafia. Listeners, let us know if you remember watching Bellam Mafia from 1997 on, I believe it was CBS, but do not quote me on that. Did you pull up the poster for one Bellamafia? I did. Do you want me to go back to it? Yes.

Okay. Vanessa Redgrave in like a funeral hood holding a very photoshopped roads. It is a very classic lineup where nobody's in the same room and all of their, they've all been sort of one quarter. overlap, where everybody is sort of overlapped just like a quarter of themselves. But yeah, Vanessa Redgrave does have the widow's veil and the red red rose of revenge.

They're flanked by candles on like giant candelabras, so it's conceivable that Bella Mafia is about witches and not... Yes. Ileana's holding a gun. Jennifer Tilly has a low-cut dress, and Nastassia Kinski is blonde hair, with, like, barrettes holding her hair back, which definitely singles her out as the outsider, right?

She's going to be the one who marries into the family and her husband is killed and she's all of a sudden alone among a pit of vipers. That's what I'm going to pretend that I remember about Bella Mafia. We'll see. Vanessa Red Graves shows up and extends her hand to Natasha Kinsty and says, hello, I'm Bella Mafia. Wait, wait. starting in Palermo, Italy, 1977, the ups and downs of a mafia family, opposed to drug trade until the men are murdered and the widows take over. What does this remind you of? The men are murdered and the widows take over.

It's widows. Bellamphia is just widows. Traveled back in time. Amazing. Minus the craft. Is that what you said? Yeah. Okay.

So my library doesn't have it. Guess what? I'm going to be buying. Buy that shit. Buy it. All right. Fantastic. We're going to, I'm going to be hounding you for, for updates.

Okay. Back, back, back, back again to the boxer. Who does the score for this movie? I don't want to call anybody out, but I don't like the way it's deployed. Again, it is very sort of 90s studio melodrama. Yeah, like. It is Gavin Friday and Maurice Caesar. I also don't like, it's little things.

I don't like the way. the opening credits are done. Like it, it feels very TV the way that the opening credits feel like they are, you know, the opening to like an NYPD Blue episode or something like that. It feels like just little things like that that I feel like make it seem a little bit more like the devil's own. Oh, that was a thing that I wanted to talk about. So this idea that in the 90s, this idea of like IRA, I put down IRA. I put down IRA. fatigue, and I don't know if fatigue is exactly the word that I want to use, but you look at the Crying Game, 1992, which has other things going on, which is very much an IRA movie,

Patriot Games, I believe, is the Jack Ryan movie about the IRA. Yes. In the name of the father, 1993, Michael Collins in 1996, which ultimately failed on its Oscar ambitions, but definitely was like positioned. Terry George, who co-wrote this movie, wrote and directed a movie called Some Mother's Son in 1996, pausing for Chris to make a joke. How, whoa, would you ever think that I would make a joke? Helen Mirren in Some Mother's Son. And then we talked about The Devil's Own in 1997.

It's just mainstream cinema, and maybe even not mainstream, because obviously Michael Collins was an indie and, you know, and whatnot. cinema of the 1990s was very, very fascinated with doing IRA movies in this sort of late stage of the game, right? The conflict had been going on officially since the 1960s. Obviously, this is a conflict that goes back centuries, but the troubles themselves specifically since the 1960s. And again, you're at this point of like 30 years of bombings and, you know, 10. and fear and people dying, and you get this feeling by the 90s that people were ready for it to end. And that's one of those things where, you know, ultimately, this is one of those conflicts that was able to come to a peaceable, a peaceable accord. But Hollywood was just, like,

deeply, deeply fascinated with it. I have talked a lot recently about how the Irish struggle for, you know, independence from England and, you know, and the Irish struggles with Northern Ireland is kind of a gateway, a gateway to empathy for, you know, perhaps white people who do not see themselves in any sides of, you know, ethnic conflicts of anywhere else in the world. This was an ethno-nationalist struggle every bit as much as, you know, takes place in Palestine or in, you know, any other areas of the world that don't have, you know, don't have the angle of, oh, well, these people, you know, look like me. And I think there is. And similar to other struggles, too, it took far too long for people to have empathy for, you know,

people at the center of these struggles. Yes. So it's, It's, you know, I think it's good in that way to, again, that's why a show like Say Nothing I thought was really well-timed, obviously. It is what it's about, but it is also very much, you know, and even something, I mean, it sounds silly, but like something like Andor, you know what I mean? Where it's such a good representation of the idea that all these stories that you've been, you know, watching in your movies and your favorite movies all these years, they're all about, you know, struggles for freedom from oppression. You know what I mean? And, and you can connect these dots if you, if, you know, your heart will, you know, or if your mind will just sort of open up to the idea that, like, oh, these struggles are the same. So, I don't know. I think that's interesting. I agree. All right. What else we want to talk about? Chris Menjie's cinematography nomination or for the cinematography guild. Two-time Oscar winner. Would go on to be Oscar-nominated again?

He won for the mission, and what was the other movie? The Killing Fields. That's the one. That's the one. Very good cinematographer. The Titanic's Russell Carpenter won the Cinematography Guild Award, as he would at the Oscars. Yanush Kaminsky for Amistad was nominated. Amistad really did come close.

It was sort of like all over that award season, and then just the Oscars did not care for it as much. You can certainly imagine in a year of a 10 that Amistad. thought would be a best picture number. Yes. Roger Deacons for Kundoon. This is kind of a banger lineup of like talent in general. Janusz Kaminsky, Roger Deacons for Kundun, Dante Spanati for LA Confidential. You know, there's some, there's some banger work being done in that category.

What else did we want to say? What else do we want to say? Brian Cox, scale of one to ten. How shocking to see him without a head of white hair. I was going to say, dark-haired Brian Cox is very, very interesting. this would have been the right around the era where I would have first started noticing him in things because the year before this 1996 the lawn kiss good night which I definitely saw and loved then and now he shows up as Gina Davis's old handler and delivers some just real classic Brian Cox

as a grumpy old man sort of like you know not grumpy old man but just like a grumpy salty dog in this. My favorite line, as I mention all the time from the long kiss good night is when he accuses Gina Davis of... You fail to complete your mission. Electing instead to die of all things, despite clear orders to the country and dead you remain. Suddenly reemerging. Until without preamble, you reemerge. Eight years later. Five years later and a good deal frumpier. And a good deal frumpier. And the way the spin he puts on the word, Frumpier, really ought to be memorialized somehow.

1997, The Boxer. And then 1998, he's in Rushmore, which is, I think, probably what a lot of people's first, Brian Cox, was, was Rushmore. He plays the headmaster of, God, why can't I remember the name of the school now? I used to be able to recall that better than it was. Anyway. And then just a few years shy of a couple real bangers in 25th hour and adaptation. 25th hour. I'm not an LIE fan.

I know that, like, that's the performance that really got him his first. But that was very, very, very indie. And that was 2001. But, yeah, 2002, he's in The Ring, 25th Hour, and an adaptation. And I know The Ring isn't an Oscar Bate movie like the other two. But he's, again, so good. What's the line you love that he has in that movie? Oh, where he goes...

You killed her. When your wife was not supposed to have a child. My wife wasn't supposed to have a child. Yeah, screams at Naomi Watts. But he's got some great lines of that one where he's just like, she never sleeps. And like all these things that like really like just sounds like so haunting. He's an amazing death scene.

His scene in 25th hour always makes me cry. And his scene in adaptation always makes me laugh. It's like the perfect like full gamut of Brian Cox, those three movies in that year. Adaptation Why the fuck Am I paying attention To your fucking movie

That's great I love it so much I'm recovering from From a cold and flu bout So my voice is very well suited to doing Brian Cox Line deliveries right now

He just always has some type of nasal situation Well also like He's always a little Contrast That is an actor who just has a gift with line delivery. We saw that all through succession, right?

All through, you know, you are not serious people and all this sort of stuff, just like so many, you know, really memorable. I know that I want to do a succession rewatch. I know that it's still soon, but, like, I really want to just, like, pick that scab, man. What a great show. And it's rewarding to go back to the first season because the first season, people did not sort of, it was not like the great received, you know, wonder of. a show, even though I think quality-wise, it did not really experience a leap in quality between season one and season two. It was a leap in, like, people watching.

Vision? Yeah. Well, vision, yes. But, like, it was a great show in season one. It was a great show right from the break, I will say. I mean, Succession is the quintessential, you have to get through four episodes of it show. But it's not because those four episodes aren't good. It's that the accumulation of it is what, you know, you're familiar with the characters.

is what, you know, gets you into it. It's not that, like, you have to, like, power through some rough episodes, which is the case with the show, like, Breaking Bad. I know you don't agree with, but, like, in general, I think that's the consensus with Breaking Bad, is that you have to sort of push through some rough episodes. Whereas Succession, it's just like, it's, it's by the time you get to that fifth episode, and you're like, Tom Wamskams is just really like that, huh?

Like, that's, you know, you know. Yeah, it takes a few episodes to set the characters and the stakes. especially because, you know, the inciting incident is, Brian Cox has a stroke or a heart attack. So it's like the dynamic isn't, they're setting what this family dynamic is kind of without him. You know, so it doesn't really have its full juice until that, until he's out of the hospital, I see.

Season one, some of the best Hiam Abbas, the queen the queen never got an Emmy nomination for that show and that's crazy it's because by the time the chilling line in the whole series is call her a cab

to take her to the subway so she can go home to her tiny to her little apartment I butchered it but it's because by the time that they were really show with Emmy nominations she was a much diminished presence on that show which is too bad

She should have an Emmy for that episode. She should. She should. By the way, I finally watched materialists. Not bad in that movie is Zoe Winters. The rest of that movie is a puzzling, puzzling experience. What a weird movie. What is the pacing with that movie?

What the fuck? Yeah, because you think that it's like, okay, we're wrapping up. There's a half hour left in that movie. And yet also, it feels like the movie didn't really start until that point either. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's not, that's the point where it's like, oh, oh, I should, like, I'd already gathered my coat and such. I should put my coat down. But up until that point?

Because now the movie's telling me what it's about. But what even was the story up until that point? You know what I mean? Like, you're never invested at all in the relationship with her and Pedro Pascal. So it's like, what's going on? The Zoe Winter stuff as writing, I don't like, but Joey Winters is great. She's great. Yeah, yes.

The best scene in the movie, The Gummer. Love a Gummer. Well, actually, she's not my favorite Gummer, and she's actually quite bad on The Guilted Age. But it's the best scene Louisa Jacobson's ever performed. I think she's really, really good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you call her the Gummer.

Do not let her get away with distancing herself from the family name. Don't let her do that. Don't let her do that. All right, any last words on the boxer? Oh, I remind her mention the trailer that I sent you a link to. Go for it. Joan Osborne, St. Teresa is used prominently in the trailer for, for, again, using a pop song, which, you know, is positioning the movie for a contemporary audience. And I get it. But, like, not only do they use, like, the opening instrumental part of St. Teresa, which also, it's so funny, like, St. Teresa, like, got to get that Catholic shit in there somehow. What's a, what's a contemporary song that's got Catholic intonations? I get at St. Teresa. But then they, like, put, like, her singing over the. end of the trailer. And it's just like, all right, man, we were really, really into that. I love that

song. I love that album. You know, I love Joan Osborne, so I was happy with that. But I'm fascinated by the use of 90s popular music in 90s trailers, as always. Should we move on to the IMDB game? Yeah. Why don't we? Chris, how do we do with the IMDB game? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front.

After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the IMDB game. Chris, would you like to give first or guess first? I'll give first. All right. What do we got?

Well, I went into the stable of notable Irish actors, which of the four headliners of the film, The Boxer, none of them are. So in the hunt, probably, you know, not even in the hunt this race, probably, you know, standing there

with, you know, a string of geese that they got, and with a shotgun in the other hand, it's Jesse Buckley, because I think this race is over. All right. All right. Stop saying that. It's too soon. I know. I know. And I'm normally, I normally wouldn't do it. But, like, I think is over. Jesse Buckley. Well, we're too soon, certainly for Hamnet. I'm going to say, is there any television?

No television. So her season of Fargo, where she is awful, is not involved. Okay. The lost daughter. So rude. I just, you know, I've now come around on Jesse Buckley. I think she's great in Hamlet, but I think she's really, really bad on that season of Fargo. The lost daughter. the lost daughter is incorrect women talking women talking is the women are talking hey hey hey hey women talking here um women are talking who was it that said women are talking mark walbert was women are talking loser um mark walberg saying women are talking loser Michelle Pfeiffer saying the Titanic charming cool cool charming she just had to get it in there yeah that

she did not see that movie Everyone in the world Seeing Titanic. Everybody knew what Titanic was. She's calling it the Titanic. I love her. Okay. Jesse Buckley,

women talking, yes. Wild Rose? Wild Rose is correct. And not the lost daughter. That's so weird and funny. She's so good in Wild Rose that it makes the movie good. Men?

Men is incorrect. Good for her. Good for everybody. Your years are 2017 and 2020. 2017. It's going to be tough. It's going to be tough. And 2020?

Yes. This is 2020. Remember how everybody made those jokes before we all knew that 2020 was going to be like the worst year that ever happened? Right. The year that ruined everything. Okay. Jesse Buckley, what else was she in in 2020? Was it like...

Zero to zero. Awards, Buzzy? Yes. We could do an episode on this movie. Okay. All right. We maybe should because it's been a minute since we've had a real Joe hates this movie. Really?

She's not in fucking Borat too, is she? No. No, we couldn't do Borat too. Unfortunately. I hated it. Was it Netflix? Yes. Okay, so what...

They had a million movies in 2020, plenty of which you hated. She wasn't in, Sam Levinson takes revenge on our friend, right? What was that called? Malcolm and Marie. Yes. No, she was not one of the two people in Malcolm and Marie. She wasn't secretly Zendaya. Okay. She placed the bathtub.

Jesse Buckley in a Netflix movie in 2020 that didn't get nominated because they had a lot of shit that got nominated. Oh, no, she's not in. I care a lot. She is not in. I care a lot. I did hate that movie. You hate this movie more than you hate I care a lot. Okay. Oh. I mean, I do hate this movie.

I think it's, I wouldn't tell somebody who liked this movie that they were wrong. But I did not care for this movie at all. This is I'm thinking of ending things. Yes, which she is great. Nobody has talked about that movie since that year. Have you noticed that? Well, I mean, first of all, people don't want to talk about that year. Second of all, there's like three movies that people want to talk about from that year.

That's not a lot of them. See, this is why I think we should do an episode on this movie. Yeah, we should. And maybe this season, because we can talk about her and, I won't be much of a bitch about that movie. I will just, I will, I just, it, I don't care for it. I don't care for, I think Charlie Kaufman needs a mediating influence, is what I will say. Okay, so I have women talking.

Her last movie, I don't know if you've seen it. It is a single word title. It was a TIF movie, obviously before she's famous, because this is before. Would I have seen it at TIF, do you think? You were at that TIF. Probably not. Did you see it at that TIF? No.

Did it go into TIF, to your best of your recollection? Did it get bought at TIF or did it go into TIF? Yeah, because this definitely had distribution. I'll pull up whatever that distribution was. I think it was in the platform section, so it would have competed. By right, there should be television in. this fourth slot because it should be I'd do anything when she

competed to be in the West End revival of Oliver. I imagine this is a UK, this is a movie that takes place in the UK. I do believe. Okay. Is it like the one about the chorus that fucking Sharon Horgensen and she was, I just didn't notice her?

No. Oh, this was released by Roadside. It's a romance thriller. No, it's not a romance, but it's a thriller where there's a tricky relationship. One word title, Alyssa Edwards would like this movie. Um, Beast. Is it really? Beast.

What is Beast? Now I've got to look up Beast. Beast. A troubled woman living in an isolated community finds herself pulled between the control of her oppressive family and the allure of a secretive outsider suspected of a series of brutal murders. Absolutely. It sounds like a psychological relationship. Never heard of this movie at all. Beasts in her known for. Who's this handsome man, though, on the cover?

My goodness. Oh, it's Johnny Flynn. There we go. Okay. All right, for you, Chris, Jim Sheridan, in addition to his, you know, other things that he's got, Irons in the Fire, he did recently direct a documentary about the great actor Peter O'Toole. We've never done Peter O'Toole. So I'm going to ask you for the known for Peter O'Toole. Interesting. Lawrence of Arabia. Yes. So.

Goodbye Mr. Chips. Incorrect. Good guess. This is the thing with Peter O'Toole is he's got more gimmies than there are slots. You know what I mean? Yeah. Is fucking Troy on his known for? Troy is on his known for.

Yeah, I figured there had to be something more modern. Wow, well done. I think Troy might also be on Julie Christie's known for. Hold on. Let me see if that's true. I could be talking out of my patoot. I know it shows up on someone else. He's also got some weirdo nominations that I wouldn't put it past them to nominate him.

Well, he was nominated so many times. The Lion in Winter. See it right? The lion in winter? Lion in the winter. Lion in the winter. Great movie. Okay, so I have one more.

Great movie. He's in a lot of great movies. Yeah, one more. You've only got one strike. So no hints. What are you going to be like? Great movie. No, I said Lion in Winter was great movie.

Oh, okay. Do you think the remaining movie? I have not seen the remaining movie. And that is a hint that I said I wasn't going to give you, so enjoy it. I wonder if it's one of his stray acting nominations. Like, what's the one I'm thinking of? I can picture him in the movie, but not the title, because maybe I'll say my favorite year. He's in my favorite year, right?

He is in my favorite year. My favorite year. No, not my favorite year. All right, your year is 1980. It's not what I was thinking. Oh, you're thinking of the ruling class. I'm almost sure of it. The ruling class is exactly what I'm thinking.

He's not that. Because he looks like Robin Hood Jesus. Yes, he does. I should have guessed King Ralph. I should have guessed King Ralph, just to say King Ralph on Mike. King Ralph, King Ralph. 1980 Is this a comedy?

Let's see It is not It is the genres that IMDB has it listed for Are psychological thriller Satire, workplace drama Action comedy, drama, romance thriller So take your pick my friend Wow, okay

That is one of those ones who's like IMDB You've never seen this movie You have no idea You have no idea what this movie is These are the movies that drive me crazy when I try to do a genre category for the Cinematrix, by the way. It's just like, IMVB, help me out here. Well. Can't be action, comedy, and drama, and thriller.

You asses. How about? I will say it was nominated for three Academy Awards, including actor in a leading role, but also... For him. Yes, but also Best Director and Best Screenplay. in 1980 Oh is it the He's not in the dresser

Not the dresser Not the dresser Um Okay Yeah Romance romantic thriller The dresser Not not wrong

Once you guess this I want to send you a still photo of it Because it is like Very like Kind of quintessential actually Peter O'Toole. Okay. It's not the kind of movie I would expect to see Peter O'Toole starring in.

But I guess by 19... And he's the acting nominee for it, right? Yes, he's the lead. Okay. He's the titular role, although not the named role. I knew it was going to be one of his stray acting noms. He's a titular role, but it's not the... What?

Well, like the dresser. There's a titular role in the dresser, but it's not... Oh, sure. Adam Jones. Is it a the something? The. It is a movie about movies. Ooh.

But it's not like the producer. No, but. The director. No, but. Keep going down the line. The cinematographer. Keep going. The editor.

The. Keep going. set decorator, the costumer. In a few years, this will become relevant to the Oscars. The stuntman. The stuntman.

The stuntman. I've never seen the stuntman. Richard Rush director nominee for the stuntman. That's very interesting. Wait, now I'm sending you in the chat this. I'll just pull it up on IMDB. Yeah, but it's one of the, it's not the lead image. So hold on.

Uh, here, click on that. Just Peter O'Toole with a cigarette in a cigarette holder. Peter O'Toole himself, a cigarette. Uh-huh, uh-huh, just sort of staring through someone with a mixture of haughtiness and disdain. Um, just wonderful. All right. Well played, Chris. Good job.

I'm surprised we hadn't done Peter. ritual by now. It's a, it's a fun one. And that is our episode. If you want more of this at oscarbuzz.com, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also check us out on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz, and you should sign up for our Patreon at Patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris V File. That's F EI. I am also on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled R EID, and you can subscribe to my Patreon exclusive podcast of the films of Demi Moore called Demi Myself and I at patreon.com slash Demi Pod. I should say I have

paused payments on that one for one month while I take care of some work obligations that would have me absolutely Chris Aziz if I also had to do the Demi podcast. But we are coming back in October. So stick around. We've got a real interesting series of Demi movies and a real interesting series of guests. So stick around. And then, soon enough, I will be announcing what the follow-up to Demi will be, and I'm very excited to do that as well. Anywho, for this at Oscar Buzz, we would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meevius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really

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