This Had Oscar Buzz - 361 – Ocean’s Eleven

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

One of the defining stories of the 2000 Oscar year was the one-two punch of Steven Soderbergh delivering both Traffic and Erin Brockovich, making good on the past decade’s worth of promise kicked off by Sex Lies and Videotape. In 2001, the victory lap was Ocean’s Eleven, a Vegas heist remake that cast some of … Continue reading "361 – Ocean’s Eleven"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hacks and friends. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. Vegas, huh? Vegas.

The heist is impossible. Casino security cannot be beaten. You're out of your minds. Exactly. You are up to something, Danny. What? You're pulling a job, aren't you? You're a thief and a liar.

I only lied about being a thief. You're going to need a crime. crew as nuts as you are. Who do you got in mind? Smash and grab job, huh? Slightly more complicated than there. Say we get down the elevator we can't move and pass the guards with the guns and into the fork we can't open.

We're just supposed to walk out of there with $150 million in cash. Yeah. Oh. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that burned down the gym because we're a shitty little kid who doesn't understand adult business. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations. But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my favorite

white jack dealer, Chris File. Hello, Chris. Luck be a lady tonight. Something vagusy. I thought you were just going to start with the And like, ba-dom-b-dom-b-d-dom, like the jazzy score. The end is near. Oh, boy. Oh, boy, we're getting melancholy. Final inning. Oh, my God.

The final inning. Is that the lyric? Final curtain. It's a showbiz metaphor. It's not a baseball metaphor. There is no baseball in Vegas. There is no baseball yet. They're getting all the major sports.

They will soon have a baseball team, but not yet. Oh. Yes. Hot button issue that you accidentally backed your way into there. Love to get controversial here on This Had Oscar Buzz. Welcome to This Head Oscar Buzz presents a movie we both love, right? Talking about this movie feels like, you know, coming home for Christmas or something. I love this movie. I mean, it's a December movie. It is a holiday season film.

And we kind of just like stumbled into, well, I guess we'll do this of a big one. Yeah. Because sometimes the schedule is like, oh. oh, we got a plan like five things over top of each other. Well, the plan was we have 40-something actors who are about to hit six timers. So let's, instead of letting them sneak up on us, let's attack a few of them head on. And so that's what we're doing with this one. And then we accidentally got into a 10-timers on this one.

Completely by accident. So we're really not going to out. So game-heavy episode. Hope you're ready, listener. Hope you're ready. Hope you're ready. I will just say off the top because, like, not interesting, we won't talk about it. You forget that the first, like, 10 to 15 minutes of this movie really kind of struggle to get it moving.

Yes. And then as soon as it clicks in, basically as soon as Carl Reiner and Elliot Gould show up, the movie is like off to the race. As with most things. Well, I mean, I am a sucker. You have the poker sequence, which I think has its charms the first. time you see the movie. It's longer than you remember it. It's longer than you're, you forget that they go back to that well, like, a couple of times, like, in succession. Yeah, you get Toby McGuire, you get Shane West, you get other charmed. It is not Toby McGuire. It is very much not

Toby McGuire. Not Toby McGuire. Um, uh, Tofer Grace, sorry. Tover Grace, Shane West, another guy. Barry Watson. What's other, who, what's other charms name? Collie Marie Combs. Apologies to this woman. Barry Watson, who did have cancer, so we should show respect on his name. Holly Marie Combs, Joshua Jackson. So it was one, it was four WB folk and then one outlier from the Fox Network, which I thought was interesting. We should get them their moment because nobody talks about that scene. Wait, are you being facetious?

Or that sequence. Are you being facetious? I feel like people talk about, I feel like that scene, have you, never seen the clip of Joshua Jackson talking about George Clooney on The Rich Eisen Show? Okay. So it goes around every once in a while. It's from the last maybe four or five years or whatever. Joshua Jackson's talking about filming Oceans 11. And of course, like in between scenes, you know, he's just sort of like trying to nudge over sort of near Clooney and Pitt and try to sort of like be in their orbit or whatever. And he said the one time, I think it was a production assistant or somebody.

Telling this story and a PA, so for people who don't know, a production assistant, so the lowest, lowest, lowest man or woman on the totem pole, comes up essentially to ask everybody if they need anything, right? Hey, we don't want a cup of coffee, can I get you a snack? And she goes through, blah, blah, blah, Brad Pitt. She gets to Clooney. Now, they've been working together for like 80 days, right? This is a known person.

Can I get you, Mr. Pitt? Can I get you a cup of coffee? young schmuck can i get you a cup of coffee mr cluny and as she's saying the words she literally swoons like the the brain just short circuits and she swoons in the middle of telling the story these guys got to go to idly he catches her doesn't break his sentence says no that's okay babe i got it puts her back on her feet and goes immediately back into his story which i took to mean wow so many people swoon in this man's presence he doesn't even break stride, didn't even pause. It didn't even dawn on him. What it just, he's like, no, I got

you. It's okay. Anyway, so we're going to go to, I was, I was, like, I couldn't believe it. And if it was a setup, then bully for him, because that's the best set up. I've been telling this story for 25 years. So yeah, I feel like, I feel like people bring this up as like, remember how weird it was. They don't bring it up as often as people bring up the WB-Oh what a night promo, which involves many of these same people. But, yeah, I feel like that's one of those like mile markers for millennials, right? Where it's just like, Oceans 11 happened, and when Oceans 11 happened, these were the transitory famous who would have counted for. Like, if Oceans 11 is made today, who are the five celebs?

It's nobody from TV. It's all like... Oh, it's YouTubers. It's like kombucha girl. I know. Well, kombucha girls at least like... Cambocha girls at the top end of who you would get. You know what I mean?

Sure. It would be like the fucking Rizzler. You know what I mean? Who's that? That little chubby kid with his dad or his uncle or whatever. Oh, he's kind of funny. Is he? I've never lingered on them long enough to know.

You know who's the good version of that? the kid who has the two gay dads, who always, like, roasts his gay dads. I'm unfamiliar. Love that kid. I'm unfamiliar. I know there was a guy, there was a gay dad. I don't know how famous he got. Gay dad who did social media stuff, who was a Bills fan.

So I, like, made note of him temporarily. Well, they're family to you. Well, of course. Yes, they are my kin. Yeah, it would be like that cadre of fun. folks, and, like, maybe a, I'm trying to think of, like, who in the pop star realm is low-grade enough? Tate McCray.

I guess. No one knows what that woman looks like. I was going to say, Tate McCray, I literally was about to say, Tate McCray is the most, has the most sorry to this man potential for me in my life, where you could show me a photograph of Tate McCray, and I would have to respond to it the way that Kiki Palmer did to Dick Cheney. I'm not too cool for Tate McCray I just don't know what she looks like I've heard the name

I feel like there's several of these I feel like Tate McCray and Addison Ray are could very well be the same person to me have never seen either one of them I don't know but if you're making it today like Soderberg has like a taste and like a cool factor but then where would he be pulling from though

because you can't pull from television he would be pulling from like you know the champagne of reality TV he would be picking like chef christin he would be picking like that would actually honestly like food chef christin in a soda bark movie would be awesome food celebs would actually make a lot of sense right where it's like um uh what's her name from chopped alec Alex Alex um is it Guarnashelly how do we pronounce her last name sure you know what I mean Kristen Kish yes you're totally right that's the cadre who you would be pulling from Alice and Roman um You know what I mean?

Like food celebs. That would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't, it would be, um, it would be some type of like reality competition instead of poker. What if it was, um, Stephen Soderberg doing Oceans 11 and having Brad Pitt or whoever, the equivalent, the rusty equivalent teaching poker to, uh, gay comedians who are mostly

famous on, like, your phone? sure you know what i mean where it's like caleb heron and joel kimbooster i guess like joel and caleb both have like tv stuff but you know what i mean yeah they've had like but like that whole cadre was like Caleb Joel Pat regan um see the thing is like they those guys those people are too not to say that the lower level people that we're trying to cast at the poker table of today's oceans 11 are not talented but like those people are too like talented and too close to, like, the character actors.

Like, Caleb Heron and Jolkenbooster would be character actors in Ocean's 11 today. They would be the, the, they would be the twins. I mean, I guess, I suppose they could be, yes. But you also, I was trying to think of, like, a cadre of people who are, like, who would make sense as being, like, playing a poker game together. You know what I mean? No, no, no. Okay, so here's your poker table.

Chef Kristen. Pepperment. Oh, now you're just casting the traitors. I guess I am just casting. I guess. Yeah, you veered into casting the traitors. The Ocean's 11 today is there's no poker. It's the traitors.

Well, now it's a whole. Now you're just casting a new. George Clooney goes and recruits Brad Pitt, who is a story producer at the traders. Now we've gone too far afield. We've gone too far afield. All right. Except it's like, it's today. right so it's uh josh o'connor goes and recruits um uh i don't know seth rogan here is the problem also

we don't have there's no such thing as minor celebrity actors anymore because as soon as you get a modicum of recognizability you're everywhere you know what i mean like there is no such thing as somebody who was like Tofer Grace level in 2001 famous anymore. Like, sure. Nobody exists on that level of fame. The entire middle class of everything. You think it's just the middle class of like the American worker or the film industry?

No, it's the middle class of everything that it's completely different. Right, because you can carve out your own corner of 2.5 million people who know who you are and then no one knows who you are except for those people. But the thing is, nobody knows. We're two gay guys who like, we can't spot Tate McCormick. in a crowd, but then there's probably 10 million people lined up to call us stupid for that. Well, it's the

bad bunny thing, too, right? Bad Bunny gets announced as the Super Bowl halftime show, which is completely justified because he's like mega globally successful. And there is probably a good 70% of the country who has never, like, in good faith, has never seen nor heard of bad bunny in their entire life. Because

like that's just the way fame works nowadays. It's so... Do you ever pull up like the regional charts on, like, Apple Music or anything where it's like you can see the top 100 songs in New York City versus L.A. Are there differences? Are there regional differences? It's like usually wildly different. That's at least encouraging to me. I kind of like that there are like regional differences still because I would have expected the opposite. I would have expected that there is no

more difference. The experience of culture in Des Moines is the same as this experience of culture in San Francisco or something like that. We do really need also demographics. Like what's the top 100 songs for gay guys. What's the top 100 songs for teenage girls? We know what the top 100 songs for liberal dads. What are the top 100 songs for? Well, this fall, the top song for liberal dads will be American Girl by Tom Petty. So that's been settled. Did we not just try to not spoil that song? I didn't. I don't know. No, because I cut it out of an episode because we We were like, we can't spoil that. We can't spoil that.

Here we are. Did you cut it out? Okay. I did. I didn't say what that was even a spoiler to, so I don't know what you're talking about. If you know, you know. That's how I treat spoilers. If you know, you know.

All right. Oceans 11. Ocean's 11. The city of Las Vegas. Okay. I want to talk about the city of Las Vegas for a second because I went up and I paused the movie and I went up to look because I wanted to see if what I was picturing in my head when I hear the Bellagio, the Mirage, and the MGM Grand are what I was thinking of.

For some reason, I thought the MGM Grand was the one with the pyramid, but it is not the one with the pyramid. It's the one with, like, the weird little hockey stick protrusion. It's like green. Yes. The Mirage is, like, the least visually striking of the three of them. I think the Mirage is also being turned into something else. Something else about the Beatles or something like that right now, yes.

And then the Bellagio is the one with the one with the barrageo. the fountains. But does not also Caesar's Palace have fountains? No. No. It has columns? Yes. Okay. All right. So the Blasio is the one with the fountains. Caesars has a tower. Caesars has the Coliseum. Yes. And like the back. Adel plays. Right. But that's not visible on like the strip. I'm trying to think of like, wait, the Coliseum is visible from the strip. Yes. That is closer to the strip than the casino and hotel. Oh, that's interesting.

Because it's huge. It's huge. It's like, it's a crazy, like, square footage complex. Obviously, a lot of them are, like, easier. Like, obviously, we know what New York, New York looks like. You know what the Paris looks like. You know what the Luxor looks like, right? Luxor's got the big fake sphinx and whatnot.

What's the pyramid one? That's the Luxor. That's all, oh, of course, the pyramid. Duh. So there's a pyramid and also a sphinx. Yes. Vegas has all. had like almost a complete facelift since this movie has come out like yeah it just

does not look the same like right great that this movie said at the bellagio because the balasio may never go away who knows hopefully i hate when the old casinos go away i think that's weirdly for as much as like las Vegas is the paragon of tastelessness it also is weirdly it is home to like 90% of the American iconography that still exists. Do you know what I mean? Go on. Like urban iconography, not like the Grand Canyon or something like that. Oh, I see.

But like how, like how the arc light doesn't exist anymore. You know what I mean? Like the arc light, it's standing there. It's there. Well, sure, but at some point soon it will not be. Like unless, you know, unless somebody saves it or whatever. But like all the, like, anytime you go and you look at like photos of like old New York City movie theaters that don't exist.

anymore and stuff like that. Bummer. Bummer. And whereas like, and Vegas has so much iconography packed into one place, like visually, like things that are like visually, you know, you know, recognizable, even the Welcome to Vegas sign and stuff like that. And it's all left to the whims, as, you know, so many of these things are of, like, corporate control or whatever. But you just hope that, like, these places keep making.

enough money that they can still remain standing, not because they're like... Well, yeah, because even Vegas has its own version of corporatization. Right. Because I'm pretty sure most of these places are now owned by Caesars. Yeah, you can't have one short, rage-filled Terry

Benedict owning multiple casinos anymore. Now it's all corporate conglomeration and whatnot. Terry Benedict would be on TikTok today. No, Terry Benedict would be hosting a show on CNBC or something like that today. Terry Benedict's would be Mark Cuban today

Well The thing about Mark Cuban, of course Is like you say that But like among billionaires Mark Cuban's like the least bad That we can hope for Do you know what I mean Whereas like Terry Benedict is not that

Terry Benedict is a bad person Anyway Terry Benedict is a loser Played by a super hot man Okay. The Oceans 11 would you rankings for Chris File in order. You know what number one is. I don't want to say it on.

You know what number one is. Is your number one Elliot Gould? It sure is. Even at that age. All right. Look at you. Good for you. I mean.

Good for you. I mean. Listen, I mean. You don't have to justify yourself. No, I want to be Rubin. Like, I can't be any. I can't be proud. I want to be Rubin.

Like, especially. at that age. I want to have a cigar a row. We want to live a life of leisure by a pool. I want to be funding casino robbers, you know? Like, I want my cigar. This is why part of the reason why I really don't like Oceans 13 is because so much of the Oceans movie is a fantasy and I don't want to have to worry about Ruben lying in a hospital bed and stuff like that. See, I used to really, really love 13 and now I do need to rewatch 12 and 13 since I at this rewatch. I come around on 12 a little bit. I still think 12 is a little like sniffing its own farts a little bit. But everybody dogs on 13 and 13 I think is so fun. I feel like I see people

defend 13 a little bit more. Barkin is great in 13. Sure. Yeah. Barkin. Good for barking. See, that's like soft dismissal. Well, it's because 13 has Pacino and you just expect more out of Pacino. You just do. And I don't think you get enough out of Pacino, unfortunately. Not his fault, but whatever. Twelve is the movie that everybody who likes that movie thinks that everybody hates that movie, which makes the people who like it even more insufferable. But I do come around on it. It has some parts that I really like. And perhaps the most controversial element of it, I think is really funny. The Julia Roberts as herself. See, that's where I'm like,

okay, this is sniffing its own part. It's at least funny, though. It's at least funny. Rather than, like, Bruce Willis makes it funny. Bruce Willis. Rather than, like, I'm going to make a sequel to the most, like, overtly fun movie I've made, and I'm going to slow it down so fucking hard. Like, it's just a sequel to the pepiest goddamn movie

in the world, and we're just going to like... See, if anything, I can understand people who... Rined it to a French halt. Because, like, part of the joy of Soderberg is that he never, as the children say, reheets his own nachos. And, like, what is 13... I mean, what is 13 doing that is really all that unique? You know, it truly does feel like a franchise entry,

but I feel like it is just a very good franchise entry. Because even the Magic Mike's, All three of those movies are incredibly different and, you know, have their own unique set of references and intentions, you know. I guess there's nothing from 13 that I remember beyond Rubin being in mortal peril. Like, I don't remember anything about, like, I guess the David Pamer stuff. David Pamer, awesome. But, like, Ocean's 11, you remember every single element of the plan and the execution of it because it's all. executed so well and with such

panache and with such personality. I could watch Casey Affleck and Scott Con bicker over balloons that have floated up in front of the security camera all day. I think it's so funny. I could watch Don Sheetle struggle through his cockney accents.

Don Sheetle apparently not build at all in this movie. I know because I was trying to... Yes. Isn't that funny? Yes. Crazy. I wonder if part of that is because he was an Oscar nominee by then and he wasn't going to crack the top five of billing. And so he's like, well, then, fine, just don't bill me at all.

I'll be an agnetic. Was he an Oscar nominee by then? Yeah. Hotel Rwanda is like 04. Yeah. Oh, no, you're right. Sorry. My mind was still on Oceans 13.

Yes, you're right. Well, then I don't know what the reason was. I give up No, you're totally right I blame the dialect No, see here's the thing If you're shitting on Don Cheadle's Cockney

Dialect in this movie You don't get it, man Like I mean I We're watching Oceans 11 Calm down I imagine if I lived in England And was watching that

I'd be a little bit like Oh my God Like these poor people haven't been through enough with Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins all these years. They have to put up with this too. I get it. I get it. But it's part of a tapestry. It is part of a tapestry. It's all part of a tapestry. I hear. Here, like, I think one of the things that's so special about Oceans 11 and why it should have maybe been in more conversations in terms of awards and such, though like we have justified reason to do it on the show. Yeah. It's multiple. movies at once that, you know, are like constantly elevating the other type of movie that it is because it's a heist movie, it's a hangout movie, it's a process movie, it's a little bit of a romance, it's a little bit of, it's just a movie star movie where movie stars are just glamorous and they sell you on the concept. And, you know, it's a snacking movie.

It's a movie about snacking. It's a movie about... It's an eye candy movie. Vegas has never looked better than this movie. Yeah. No, it really, really, really made me want to go to Vegas. This movie, like, the city of Las Vegas should have paid for the entire budget for this movie, because Vegas is a shithole. It is an existential shithole.

But this movie's like, I could go back to Vegas. There's a reason why these three major casinos let them use their real names in a movie about, robbing them. You know what I mean? Because it does, it makes every, makes it all look so good. No, it absolutely made me want to go and go to Vegas for something. Even for, like, a lot of people go to Vegas and like, let's go, like, let's go to Vegas and see a concert. And I'm like, I guess that's cool. And the nice thing about Vegas is unless you're going, like, if you're going to see a concert at most of the place in Vegas, you don't have to, like, go out of your way to, like, leave and, like, drive very far to get to, you know, your concert. But if

I'm going to Vegas, the appeal of Vegas to me is you don't have to leave the like, you know, one square, you know, mile or whatever of... It's a lot more walking than you think. Not if you, like, stick around in, like, a span of, like, three casinos and just, like, do those three casinos. I mean, I think Vegas is easy. It's, like, super easy if you have a large group. To pair off and to everybody do their own thing.

No, that is the appeal of it. Yes, it's a really, really good place to do it for a large group, which is why... Vegas has great food, too. That's why we should have our... This at Oscar Buzz live show in Las Vegas. In the Coliseum. Every single Gary on the planet will come... In the sphere, motherfucker.

My fat fucking face in the sphere. I don't want to be in that AI hellhole. No, we'll do it at a charming little Vegas, you know, whatever. We'll do it at the palms or something. that jackpot sound you just heard is because technical difficulties and I hope this is not going to be a technical difficulty ridden episode hopefully not all right so that was a sign though technical difficulty is Danny Ocean is breaking into our audio they set off an EMP and blacked out the boxing match um I guess that was a sign though that we've been doing too much dithering uh

ahead of this episode. So, Chris, before we get into the part where you give the 60-second plot description for Oceans 11, why don't you tell our listeners why they should sign up for this head Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. Listeners, Gary's one and all, we have a Patreon. We call it this head Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. For $5 a month, you're going to get two bonus episodes, more of the show you love, and you get to throw us a little coin to show your support. Who doesn't love that?

We love all of you who do it, but let's talk about what you're going to get over there. First episode comes on the first Friday of the month. This is a theme we call exceptions. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar Buzz rubric, but managed to score some Oscar nominations or two. We've always had people wanting these episodes before we started the Patreon. So here is our Patreon to give them to you.

We've talked about movies we love, like Contact or Interview with a Vampire. Movies we don't love, like Mary Queen of Scots, Hitchcock. We've had listener-voted episodes like The Lovely Bones. We've talked about masterpieces like Mulholland Drive and Far from Heaven. We've talked about less than masterpieces, like House of Gucci and Barney's version. This month, we're talking about the no-tale. less than masterpiece, Country Strong. Oh boy.

With Paltrow, back in the race. We're looking back at a Gwyneth, and it's Country Strong. Yeah. The second episode you're going to get on the third Friday of every month. These are excursions. These are deep dives into Oscar ephemero we love to obsess about on the show, including things like EW Fall Movie Preview Issues, old award shows like from the aughts and the 90s that we go back.

and recap, Indy Spirit Awards, Golden Globe Awards, MTV Movie Awards. We've talked about Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtables, including most recently the 2015 lineup of eight, count them eight actresses. We're still coming together with this month's episode, but it's going to be a fun one. So go on over to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz and sign up now for only $5 a month, join the turbulent brilliance and all of your fellow Gary's over there. Exactly.

All right, we hope to see you there. Chris, I'm going to fire up my little stopwatch here, and I'm going to ask you to deliver a plot description for Oceans 11 in the span of 60 seconds. So that makes it for

less than six seconds per heist member. So, you know, budget your time accordingly. All right. If you are ready, your time. Wait, I have to get the boilerplate, don't I? I forgot that.

All right. We're talking about Oceans 11. It's directed by Steven Soderberg. It was written by Ted Griffin. We talked about Ted Griffin when we did our episode on Rumor Has It. It stars George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts, Andy Garcia, Matt Damon, Elliot Gould, Casey Affleck, Scott Kahn, Don Cheedle, Bernie Mac, Eddie Jemison, Kinshaubo and introducing Carl Reiner as Lyman Zerga.

It premiered December 7th, 2001, number one at the box office at Knocked Off, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer Stone after three weeks at number one. And Chris, I've got my stopwatch, if you are ready. Sure. Okay, and begin now. All right, we meet Danny Ocean. He's a con man. He's getting out of prison.

What does he immediately do but reenter a life of crime? He meets up with his friend Rusty to gather a gang of people. They want to rob the three most prominent casinos on the Las Vegas strip run by Terry Benedict. Oh, guess what? Terry Benedict is also now hooking up with Danny Ocean's former wife. That has nothing to do with anything, wink, wink. Meanwhile, they're assembling a crew of various talents, including, you know, surveillance experts. They get an acrobat from a local show who can, you know,

who's really tiny and can fit into stuff. They have Elliot Goulda's Rubin underwriting everything, basically. Matt Damon's like the newbie who has like his, he's like Nepo Baby Con man. 10 seconds. They all have various tasks to do. All of it, they pull off the heist basically by forcing the casino to help them carry all of the money out of the vault. And then Danny goes to jail for breaking his parole, gets back together with his former wife, and they all get away with it.

They sure do. I'm not going to go through all of the intricacies of the heist in a plot description. No, that's fine. That's also to spoil the fun of the movie. But also, I maybe don't understand what's... I understand as Soderberg is telling me what happened. But if you pause the movie at any point and say, what just happened? Right.

I cannot tell you. I know that things are going well. But it's one of those things where, like, yes, it is a very, like, well-plotted out heist in that one bit of reconnaissance leads to later on this payoff down the line, right? Like, A leads to B, everything feels very satisfying. B leads to W. What do we say? like earlier things tie back to the newer things

yes yes yes yes yes um and then what but also at the same time it's not really about that it's still kind of a hangout comedy like my favorite parts are when they'll cut back to Eddie Jemison watching it all on the monitors

and like someone who's like not actively in play at the moment will come in and be like all right how's how we doing like you know what I mean like Bernie Mac will come in and just be like, all right, how's everything going? And Brad Pitt snacking at every moment. Brad Pitt snacking all the time. It really does have the feel of like, you know, this this guy's trip to Las Vegas. And like, this is the activity they've chosen to do. And they're just like, they're meeting back at the room every once in a while. And

the whole thing ends up hinging on this thing that like they kind of brush past, but they don't hide it from you. That's the other thing is I think a lesser movie bends over backwards too much to hide too many things from the audience so that they can surprise the audience later. Whereas Oceans 11 hides so many things in plain sight, most prominently being the fact that like they have a replica. A replica of the vault. And that's like the whole game. And they kind of just sort of like breeze past that, but they don't hide it. So it doesn't feel like the movie is sort of sweating at any point to like artificially keep the audience in the dark. And so the audience does keep to, you know, gets this experience of being like, oh, yeah, that

and that and this without the movie being so afraid that the audience is going to race ahead of the movie because in a movie like this, the audience doesn't want to race ahead. Why would you want to get to the end faster when you're having such a good time enjoying what's going on right now? And I think that is what separates a movie like Oceans 11 from 90% of movies that have like a surprise, a twist, a secret. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. Yeah.

Like every scene, especially once you're in the heist planning stage, is like a piece of the puzzle, this is how they actually pull it off in a way that, you know, it doesn't ever feel, it feels tangibly like they. pull it like it doesn't ever feel like well we're buying the idea that they pull off this heist by being so process driven of a movie you also get the feeling of yes they pulled off all of the different intricacies that they were supposed to pull off yeah you know and every once in a while there's something that like you know throws the plan out of whack whether it's cluny and matt damon down at the vault and they almost like set off the charges while the acrobat's got his bandaged hand stuck in the in the joint or whatever and and his hand is only bandaged up because Matt Damon screwed up during the retrieval of the whatever the EMP, whatever the

hell that they call it that they have to abduct from Caltech or whatever. So like enough things go wrong that they have to improvise, but also the whole idea is that this is this like this is an operation being carried off by two of the most sort of impossibly cool operators in the business. And so you don't ever want to see them sweating it too much, right? The whole idea that like the part where Clooney gets pulled into the back room with the two, you know, big tough guys or whatever, and

and then they throw him in the room with the guy who's going to work him over. And that's the closest that you get to being like, oh, man, Danny's going to get fucked up. And then it turns out that he knows this guy back from like six jobs ago or whatever. So this guy is going to help him out. Yeah, some of it is convenient. But in a way that like the audience is happily, happily letting the movie get away with all of that stuff. Yeah. It's completing the puzzle at a clip enough that it's like, we care more about completing the

puzzle than, you know, picking certain convenient elements apart. The other thing that you watch this movie, and this is probably my sixth or seventh or eighth time watching this movie, at the very least, my like third or fourth time watching it front to back entirely. This is a phenomenal pick-it-up on TNT, two-thirds of the way through a movie. I had this on VHS. I've watched this movie a million times. so good. But you realize that, like, there's not a ton of Clooney and Julia Roberts scenes in this. No, they have like three scenes in the movie. They have like three scenes together. And that's why it's so important to have people like Clooney and Julia Roberts. Like,

they kind of overcast that, the Tess role, right? You don't, you, given the prominence of her in the movie, Julia Roberts is too famous for that role. But you need to have some, who packs that kind of a punch because you need to sell this entire relationship in essentially one scene in that first scene or else you're lost. She also has to feel like an equal to Danny and in that way you need her to be a huge star. Plus like their first scene together is so movie speak. You need a movie star. Like part of the thing of like giving a movie star performance is giving, like, movie star dialogue and making that person sound like a human being. Because, like, the line that everybody's taken to now is the, does he make you laugh?

He doesn't make me cry. People don't talk like that. Like, you know, nobody speaks in quotable dialogue. Right. But, like, it does seem natural for this relationship. And you just, you get all of, you get all the information you need about that relationship in that scene. And some of it is just through. the chemistry, the charisma, the, you know, just star power that you have in that pairing.

Well, and then meanwhile, all of the scenes where we're like getting the team together are on, like, I love a getting the group together sequence. I really, really do. And watching sort of like, you know, Danny and Rusty sort of like traverse the country. you know, picking up these guys is, it's just really fun. And then when they all finally end up there together at that house, and Clooney is like, you know, this is going to be a very dangerous job. If you want, you know, if you don't want in, you know, have some food and be on your way. Otherwise, meet me inside. And Damon is the only one who doesn't go in there because he's, he has the least relationship with all of these people. He's, you know,

only there because his dad has a reputation. Nobody really trusts him. Seemingly, nobody likes him all that much. And so he's lingering, and Elliot Gould sort of walks up to... My favorite acting beat in the movie. It's so good. Where Elliot Gould is just like, I knew your father. We did this, whatever.

And then he just looks at him, and he's like, get in the goddamn house. Get in the goddamn house. And it's so good. And you're just like, yeah, fucking yeah, this is great. And then the other line, I think it's Gould. It might be Carl Reiner, but I think it's Gould. says this, when it comes out in front of the group that Tess is dating Terry Benedict and that's why Danny is doing this job. Is it Gould who goes, uh, Tess is with Benedict now? She's too

tall for him. Or is that Reiner? I can't remember. It's one of the two of them, but it's- I'm pretty sure that's Riner. Is it Riner? It's such a good line. Brad Pitt also has one of my favorite lines in the movie where someone asking him, do you ever think about suicide? He's like, only in the mornings. Um, they're great. Obviously, KCF, like and Scott Kahn make me laugh so much. The immaturity of them, the way that they use that to their advantage to, like, throw the way that Sotomberg shoots them while they just like, they do not stop, but like,

the camera just drifts away. Like, we don't even need to pay it to, and that's part of what's so funny about them. And then you hear them still yelling sort of like off camera. The one time, uh, I can't remember whether it was the one with the balloons or the one where they forget the key card. But he just goes, you're so stupid. You're such an income poop. And it's like, it just kills me.

It's so funny. And then the other one where you're just like, who you call in guy, friend? Who you call in friend, pal? Like, it's so good. It's so good. I love them. And obviously, like, the aesthetics are so good. Like, I love the music.

It makes Vegas look so beautiful. For such a not beautiful place. Vegas looks so beautiful. Beautiful. Peter Andrews with the cinematography, David Holmes with the music, and then, like, makes such good use of, like, there are a lot of Claire DeLoon needle drops in movies. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Best use of Clair DeLoon in a movie. My favorite. It's so wonderful. To the point where I'm like, do they always use that music for the Bellagio Fountains? And if they don't, why not? Because, like, you have no excuse. It's absolutely beautiful. It's absolutely gorgeous. Every performance is exactly what it needs to be.

I love Eddie Jemison in this movie, too. The sweatiest performance in the history of cinema. It's so good. When the guy is like, you dropped this and it's his little like handheld TV or whatever, and he's like, you get good reception on that? And he just looks straight at him and he's like, yes. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of reception you get in it? Great. And then just goes, It's wonderful. But again, the thing I mentioned at the very beginning, the scene with Linus where he's playing the gaming commission guy who pulls in Bernie Mac and blows up his spot. What a legend, rest in peace.

It's a phenomenal scene between the two of them. Because first of all, Bernie Mac saying you might as well call it White Jack is maybe my favorite line in the whole movie. It's so good. Bernie Mac intimidating the car salesman about lotioning his hands. But then the way that it's so, and knowing that it's a work, obviously, it makes it even better. But Linus saying, we have a long history of employing colored. And he doesn't even like get through the end of colored.

And Bernie Max's like up out of his seat and rushes at him. It's just so good. It's so funny. You know what, good movie. It's a good movie. It's a really, but it also, so it is not only a good movie, it is an elite follow-up to an Oscar win, to a career-altering Oscar win, because I want to sort of do the Soderberg career thing. And we've talked about Soderberg before. We've done, let them all talk.

Is that the only Soderberg we've done? It can't be. I mean, what else would? No, we did King of the Hill. So, and we can do, there are others that we could end up doing. There's so many, actually. But obviously, the famous thing about Soderberg is he comes on the scene like this, like, huge wonderkind, like, he makes sex lies and videotape when he's how old. So Soderberg is born in

63. I believe he's in his 20s. That movie is 89. He's like 26 years old at that point. So sex lies and video comes out. It is a huge sensation. Sundance and Cannes film festivals, right? It hits and...

Yes. Wins the top prize at both, which I think is the only time that's happened. Oh, we've also done Solaris, too. Oh, right, forever ago. Okay, well, this is our fourth Soderberg. Fantastic. Good forever.

So, and then after Sex Lies and Videotape, sort of famously has a hard time recapturing that sense. Like, King of the Hill is very well reviewed, but does not have that same kind of success at all. And then he's making movies like Kafka and Schizophrenas, and he does the Spalding Gray monologue movie, Craig's Anatomy. just a lot of these enter development too through the success of sex lies and videotape before you know sex lies and videotape even becomes an Oscar nominee you know it's like he's got this one thing in development and this other thing and they're kind of competing into what order they're going to go into production meanwhile they're all these kind of very different movies which makes his career so slippery there seems to be

is such a huge success. There seems to be a little bit of refusal to pursue whatever is expected of him after Sex Lives and Videotap, sort of defiantly kind of following his own thing. And then the comeback happens in the late 90s. And it is, I would say, still his most successful stretch. And it's also kind of more or less his most sort of thematically slash stylistically coherent stretch of movies that runs from out of sight in 98, the Lyme in 1999, Aaron Brockovich and traffic in 2000 and then Ocean's 11 in 2001. They're not variations on the same movie, but they hold similar aesthetics, a lot of similar cast members. There's a lot of, like, cast member overlap there. And similar rhythms, I feel like you really get a sense of, like, this is what a Steven Soderberg movie is by watching those five movies. And they're all on some level or another, very successful.

Even the Limey, which is like the, you know, sort of least culturally omnipresent of all of those gets great reviews and is hugely well respected after the fact. You know what I mean? So, but like, out of sight is a hugely well-received movie and kind of changes the careers of both Clooney and momentarily, at least, Jennifer Lopez, where it's seen for a second, like Jennifer Lopez was about to become the biggest actress, you know, in the country. And then she decided to be a pop star. but it's a hugely like turning point moment in Clooney's career, I feel like. And then obviously Brockovich and Traffic is this legendary double dip in the same year. He gets the two Best Director nominations. They're both nominated for Best Picture.

He wins the Oscar for Best Director for Traffic, gives the speech that the Academy loves the best of all time. Neither wins best picture, but I do feel like you could make the argument that Soderberg exits that Oscars on top of the heap, right? Like, he's kind of the big, and if whoever, who's the second biggest winner, it's Julia Roberts, who we'll talk about in a second. And then to follow that up with Oceans 11 and to sort of, to avoid the post-Oscar slump by just like no time

no time to worry about it because we're already like Julia says in her Oscar speech I start working for this guy again tomorrow morning or whatever right like yeah they're filming during the they start filming right after and so

and so it's like no time to have you know post Oscar jitters or whatever to like second guess myself we're already into production on the next movie and it completely you know knocks out. What's ironic is that

whether you want to call it a post-Oscar hangover, it does come. It just comes after Oceans 11, where again, in a very similar kind of way, he follows his own muse down various paths that, you know, audiences and critics aren't always following him down, where he does full frontal in 2002. He also does

Salaris in 2002, which you and I and a lot of critics really love, but, um, puzzled, I think, as many people as it, as it delighted. Um, what is Eros? Eros is a, that's like an omnibus movie. He only did like one section of that movie. Right. Um, Oceans 12 in 2004, which is very much seen as, um, a let down popularly from Oceans. 11 right audiences didn't really get it um bubble in 05 which people like but it's like so small and so experimental and whatever um the good german which is very stylized it's you know this sort of uh neo noir set in post war germany no one really likes it but it gets an oscar nomination for thomas newman yep yep oceans 13 which is trying to be the rebound oceans movie

but it like it only you know succeeds so far and he's just like at this point he's just like past give a fuck right he's like yes I will make a two-part epic movie about Che Guevara yes I will still need to see do you I don't I think I do especially after a few small beers I think I do need to go on like a Benicio Benicio is so good in in uh in uh in one battle after another um but like girlfriend experience i will make a movie with a you know uh porn star um even the stuff that feels like designed to be crowd pleasing like the informant is really really highly stylized a movie i have a very different opinion on every time i watch it i've only seen it the one time but i really i've seen it i think three times now and i think i've had a very

different reaction every time and then so as we hit to like the 2010s It's a lot of movies that I think are in, to some degree or another, really good. Like, Contagion, I think is really good and is successful to a point, right? Haywire is a movie I like somewhat less, but, like, is not a disaster, right? Magic Mike is the next sort of peak in the career, right? where it's a cultural phenomenon. It is more of a Channing Tatum triumph, I feel like, than a Steven Soderberg triumph,

but like real ones understand what Soderberg is bringing to that. A lot of people like side effects. I didn't really. A lot of people didn't have time for Logan Lucky. I did. You know what I mean? It's that kind of a thing where it's like... But, you know, side effects and behind the candel opera

is, I believe, when we get the first retirement. Yes. Right. Logan Lucky is the first movie he made in retirement. Yes. Right. Because behind the Candelabra, the whole thing is it was released in theaters internationally, had to be on HBO in the States because no one wanted it.

No one wanted to touch it even though. No one would put up the budget for it. Soderberg chalked it up to skittishness around homophobia. It does tremendously well. Go find my article that I wrote on TV movies. for Vulture. I talk about how well behind the Candelabra did at that Emmys.

Like it was like it was the prestige TV of that year, right? But yeah, he's probably very, a fairly could be called the one of the final like HBO prestige TV movies. That's sort of why I kind of favorite that way. Yeah. Yeah. And then you sort of get into like,

what I would characterize as the present era, where he's just sort of, he's making a bunch of different kinds of movies, and a lot of them, I think, are really good. He hits some low points. I do think the laundromat is... Worst thing he's ever made. It is pretty bad. But, like, unsane is another, like, you know, handheld digital video, very, like, odd, you know, visual presentation. I think high flying bird kind of rules. We both think let them all talk kind of rules.

I didn't, I just didn't have any kind of affection for no sudden move, but I understand that other people, you know, had a good time with that movie. It evaporated as soon as it was out of my sight. So, Kimmy's fun for a movie about, like, how it felt like to live in, you know, in lockdown. I feel like, you know, Kimmy was like there kind of right away and was just like, hey, remember how we all felt a year ago? Magic Mike's last dance, his triumphant return. We also don't mention the fact that, like, Magic Mike double XL happens during that, you know, that span. And he is not the official credited director, but like most people agree that he had.

His hand is all over it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Magic Mike's Last Dance in 2023. Presence, which I wanted to like a lot more than I actually did. It's another movie with a big sort of, like big fancy visual gimmick that to me, I like, you know what? He's Steven Soderberg.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants, follow your muse and all. I ultimately feel like it's less, it, it, um, the returns on that are less than what I would have wanted out of. I respect it as an object so much. First of all, because, like, Soderberg never really makes the same movie twice, even when he's doing one of his franchises. Yeah. And, you know, having a horror movie, if you want to call... I mean, like, it's more comfortably a ghost story than a horror movie. You know, and also what I love about it is like...

Listen, it's a horror movie about toxic masculinity is what it is crazy. Well, you could say that, but it's all. also, like, I'm someone who loves, like, gothics and, like, haunted house, you know, haunted mansion movies. And, like, a lot of those ghost stories I love are ultimately, like, very sad. Yeah. Presence is ultimately just a very sad ghost story, which is, like, not going to get people to line up, but, like, I respect it for the thing that I think it is.

Sure. And then, well, that only got released. at the very beginning of this year, but it played a year before at the Sundance. So it's like we have three Sodabergs in a very short amount of time. This year we got two theatrically released Soderbergs plus a festival release. Yeah, one coming soon. This is maybe a good spot to remind people that BlackBag is one of the best movies of the year. I don't know if I would go that far, but I really enjoyed BlackBarr.

Oh, I would absolutely go that far. I mean, like, this is also the type of, like, romance that I love, where it's just, like, they prove, they love each other by killing people, basically. You know, it's very Gone Girl coded. Sure. If you like Gone Girl, check out BlackBag. I think it's a really, really good time at the movies, and I was happy with it. And then we've talked about one or TIF episode how much I really liked the Christophers and particularly the performances in the movies. the Christopher's by Ian McKellen and Michaela Cole. So whenever that does release, I imagine it

won't be till next year. I don't think it has a distributor yet. Doesn't. So as we know, as we record this today, Testament of Anley, it just got picked up by Searchlight. So like, things are still happening. Let's go. Things, it is not too late for, you know, late in the season moves to be made. So, but I think Christophers is probably going to open next. spring, summer, some time, you know, in limited release, and whenever it does, check it out because it's really, really good. Good movie. It is not a movie where Soderberg gives his answer to, did you direct Magic Mike double X-L? Right. Right. We should also mention that, like, during this time, he does that TV series, The Nick in 2014. he does a TV series called Mosaic in 2018

that had that weird direct to your Android phone thing. Wasn't there a whole thing with, you know, I don't know. There was a distribution model. I don't remember this, but I don't know. This was the show with Sharon Stone in it. Oh, yes. Yes. You remember.

And he did a show in 2023 that nobody really watched, but I thought was really good called Full Circle. That is only six episodes long, and it is on HBO Max, and it stars Zazi Beats and Claire Danes and Dennis Quaid with a French braid. And I think it's really good. And it was Ed Solomon wrote and created it. So it was the same guy who wrote the Christophers. So I would recommend that as well. So Stephen Soderberg, a talented guy. And I would say that I would put Oceans 11 in my top three Sodabergs of all time.

I mean, there's three magic mics. and there's Aaron Brockovich I mean Aaron Brockovich I mean that's that's it's it's never not a good time to watch Aaron Brockovich I do kind of feel like it's one of the defining pop cultural moments of at least my lifetime you know that's a movie that can unite a room

I think I think the Steven Soderberg's Aaron Brockovich harnesses the power to align our divided nation. Wow. Wow. All right. It really does. Aaron Brokovich still bringing people together 25 years later. In fucking ugly shoes.

Yes. Aaron Brockovich is fantastic. Aaron Brockovich would also be in my top three, Sodbergs of all time. I don't know what my third one would be. But definitely Oceans and Aaron Brockovich are. my top two. So, um, a tremendous movie, a movie that also, I think, is just so huge for the George Clooney ascendancy. Like, he, he was already on the way up. The post-Batman rebound is like, it's major. He's already done the victory. Like, the, it's major. We're not even talking

about Batman and Robin anymore for him. Well, and also, like, the thing was, so he leaves ER, in what, hold on, I'm pulling up the filmography. So he leaves ER in 1999. So he's still on ER when the movie career is starting to take off, when it's One Fine Day, 96, Batman and Robin and the peacemaker in 97. So he's, you know, that's sort of the beginning of it. Out of sight in 1998, Three Kings in 1999. These are all, you know, lead performances.

Certainly out of sight helps to set the Clooney. Out of sight in One Fine Day, I think, are the two movies that do the most to sort of set the Clooney cinematic template that we would, that we sort of see. and then directly after but like out of sight is a movie that gets great reviews gets an Oscar nomination for its screenplay Clooney doesn't get anything individually right he doesn't get a satellite nomination he doesn't get an MTV Movie Award nomination he doesn't three kings no Oscar nominations we should do that again I know David O' Russell nobody wants to talk about that but like it's a movie worth talking about Clooney punches David a Russell on set reviews are great

but again Clooney doesn't get any kind of like individual accolades it's not until O Brother Where Art Thou and he gets that Golden Globe nomination for Best Actor in a Musical or Comedy that does he win that? He won. He wins that

yes. Because he was one of the big surprise snubs because he went from a Golden Globe to not awesome nominated in the span of like a week or something. Yeah, but I even still feel like, I think that Golden Globe win was somewhat surprising, though. So I feel like he jumped into the Oscar race quickly

and then like was knocked out just as quickly. Because the big snub that year obviously was Michael Douglas for Wonder Boys. But I think that's the first sort of big individual nomination for him. And then Oceans 11, while again not getting him any kind of individual accolades. It's just a continuation of hit after hit after hit. The perfect storm is a big box office hit. Ends up, you know, opens the same weekend as the Patriot,

and the Perfect Storm actually, like, beat it out for number one. And then it's all leading up to it. By the time we get to 2005, Good Night and Good Luck, Siriana. it was his first Oscar nominations he gets three of them that year no four screenwriting directing producing and then I imagine he's a producer on good night and good luck to you so four nominations by the time he got to that it was his first breakthrough with Oscar but he's already overdue which is why he wins supporting actor for Siriana because they're like words out of his mouth I'm not winning director huh well and you know he had it he had his finger

on that pulse, for sure. Which is an interesting narrative, right? Where, like, all of a sudden it was, like, there was this knowledge of the fact that, like, oh, you've been kind of, like, killing it as a leading man for six, seven years at this point. And then he becomes a sort of semi-regular fixture within the Oscar Buzz community, right? Yeah, anything he touches, you know, leads towards that direction. Good German has Oscar Buzz. Nothing happens. Michael Clayton, I would say his best work, perhaps. He gets nominated. He runs into the unfortunate buzzsaw that is Daniel Day Lewis and there will be blood. He gets into directing in, well, he gets into directing with Good Night and Good Luck. He gets into the current phase of directing, which is to say directing bad movies in 2008 with Lotherhead. But like, you know, fantastic Mr. Fox.

He gets nominated for up in the air. Ides of March is a big Oscar-Busy movie. He gets nominated for the descendants. Monuments Men in Tomorrowland are big buzzy movies that don't really, you know. As it goes along, it gets more misses than hits. But now we hit 2025 and Jay Kelly, which isn't knocking down the critics the way that I think a lot of people thought it might. But I think I will be shocked if he does not get nominated for Best Act. You have seen this. I have not. Every single time, it seems, another audience has seen the movie.

I think it only makes me feel more confused about where this movie's place is in the race or how this movie is perceived. I can't tell if it's divisive or most people just fall in the middle, which if it's that more people fall in the middle, that probably does spell not good things for Oscar for the movie. Well, I think there's two conversations to be had. Can it win anything versus can it get nominations? And I think with 10 Best Picture nominations in a year where a lot of what's been touted as big contenders have been disappointing to one degree or another,

I think the fact that Jay Kelly has some champions and some people who are a little bit more mixed, I think at this point, you end up punting it to the sort of more mainstream of the academy. And these are people who like movies about actors, you know, I think people will find a lot to resonate with a movie about a, you know, a longtime movie star who is reflecting. back on his career and his choices. Don't you think there's a certain level of that sentiment or that crowd has sentimental value already that we know everybody loves? Well, I mean, we know everybody it can loved it. You know what I mean?

I feel like, I think sentimental value is still at the end of the day a movie with Stellan Scarsgaard and Renata Rinesov, and Jay Kelly is a movie with George Clooney and Adam Sandler. Okay, that is fair, but Jay Kelly is a movie that's getting kind of across the map reactions and every festival sentimental value plays gets unilateral. I mean, I think ultimately it doesn't have to be either or is the other thing. I think they'll both nominate it. And I think sentimental value probably does still have ambitions to win certain things. And I think Jay Kelly is probably going to be content with four to six nominations. and zero wins and ultimately, again, we're still very early. I'm not, you know, locking anything in yet. But that tends to, that's sort of where I envision. The other thing is, for as much as you and I and, you know, our little cadre loves and is rooting for train dreams, I think Jay Kelly right now sits at the top of Netflix's priority list. And I think if Netflix is going to get one best picture nomination, it'll be for Jay Kelly. I think if they get two best picture

nominations, that's where you can start hoping for train dreams. But, um, Or maybe K-pop Demon Hunters, given the way Netflix's years going. But I think Jay Kelly right now sits at the top of their priority list. I really want to see it so I can feel like I can have an opinion about something like this. And I'm still excited for the movie. Yeah. I mean, I think there's enough elements to it. Again, I liked it.

I did not love it. I am a little confused by a lot of it. But there are a lot of things in it that I really do love. Clooney being one of those things. So, um, we mentioned earlier, this is our sixth Clooney. It also happens to be our sixth Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt, who is. We forget Brad Pitt has Fawn in the race this year.

You can't forget about Fuan. You are the only person carrying the banner for calling it Fuan, and I love that. I love this crusade. I will call it that until the day that I die, because it's a movie about ZoomZoom Drive Drive. It's stupid. I can call it something stupid. I got to see it at one point. Brad Pitt, also in Oceans 11, is so much fun.

Him and his snacks, man. Relatable Queen. He's just, he's tremendous. He's great. All right. So, once again, we're doing a combined six-timers quiz. So we are covering, in this case, 10 movies, because not only do Clooney and Pitt have Oceans 11 overlapping, but they also have Burn After Revenue. reading, which overlaps. So the following questions will have the following 10 movies among their answers. And I do encourage you to find some scratch paper to write it down, because also you're going to need some paper and pen for the Julia Roberts quiz. So Clooney's movies that we've covered on this had Oscar buzz. Solaris, burn after reading, which were back-to-back episodes,

money monster, lest we forget, what if the original money monster was the friends we made along the way? Leatherheads, the aforementioned, not successful, leatherheads. The Monuments Men, and then Oceans 11. Brad Pitt had Meet Joe Black, very early on, seven years in Tibet, once again burn after reading, the counselor, counselor. The counselor, the devil's own, and then Ocean's 11. So, 10 movies, several questions. Are you ready? Let's do it.

All right. Of those movies, which was the longest? Seven years in Tibet? You would think, and yet no. One movie was decidedly longer. Oh, Meachow Black. Meet Joe Black at 180 punishing, 181 punishing minutes. Yes.

Which was the shortest? One of these has to be like 90. It's Burn After Reading? Burn After Reading at 96 minutes. Very good. Which had the best Rotten Tomatoes percentage? Not Burn After Reading. Is it Ocean's 11?

Ocean's 11, 83%. Worst Rotten Tomatoes. Devil's own? No. I think that can close, but no. Leatherheads. No. Wow. I think people were like a little kind to leatherheads.

Meat show black. No. All right. After three wrong guesses, you're getting an answer because there's too many. And we got a second question. And we got that, yes. The counselor, 34% for the counselor. didn't understand it. Neither did I.

Biggest box office. Loved it. Domestic box office. Oceans 11. Oceans 11, 183 million dollars. Lowest box office. Cluny's biggest hit for until gravity, which doesn't... Which isn't a Clooney hit, but yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lowest box office. Leatherheads? Nope. Solaris. Solaris, $14.9 million. Which, honestly, think about that today. A movie like Solaris pulled in 14.9 million, we'd be like, that's amazing. Good for you.

All right. How many of these 10 movies were not directed by Oscar winners? Ooh. Um. Oscar winners for directing. Oscar winners. Okay. Um. Seven. No. Okay. How many were not directed by Oscar winners?

Sidney Lomett directed Devil's Own, right? No. No. You're sort of close. So it's seven of them. Have not won Oscars? Oh, no. Three of them have not won Oscars.

No. Four of them have not won Oscars. Four. Which ones you want to guess? Mito Black, seven years in Tibet, the counselor, and Devil Zone. Yes. Mito Black directed by Martin Brest. Seven Years in Tibet, directed by Jean-Jark Anode, the counselor directed by Ridley Scott, and Devil's Own directed by Alan J. Pekula, who does not have an Oscar.

Cool. Yes. Which movie was co-written by the same screenwriter who co-wrote The Rose? This is why I was watching clips from The Rose last night. Which would make the most sense? Devil's Own? Nope. Although it's a good guess.

Meat Joe Black. Yes, Meat Joe Black, Bull Goldman, co-wrote... Bo Goldman. ...the Rose and also co-wrote Meat Show Black. Which of these movies has the same cinematographer as Clute, interiors, and Up the Sandbox? Oh, that's Haskell Wexler who shot... Meachow Black? It's not Haskell Wexler, but you're in the same ballpark.

Oh, God. Then who is it? It's, um... Did you see that thing, by the way? Speaking of the Rose that I posted, where it was like second unit photography for the concert scenes in the Rose? Yes. Or like this group of cinematographers, including Haskell Wexler and Conrad Hall. It's crazy. It's amazing. It's almost as if that movie looks fucking insane. That movie is so underrated and under-remembered. It's crazy. Okay, give me the list of movies again. I remember interiors. Clute. Interior.

and up the sandbox. Is it Devil's Zone? It is... Sorry, I just lost my place. It is the Devil's Own. It is Gordon Willis. Gordon Willis, of course. Oh, right, because in that episode,

us and the guys were talking, like, Gordon Willis only has, like, two Oscar nominations. That's crazy. It is crazy. Which of these movies has the same cinematographer as The Cat in the Hat,

Reality Bites, and Amsterdam? That's Lubesky. Yes. Who shot, um, which one of these did he shoot? Uh, not the counselor. That's like Wolski. Oh, it's two movies. Sorry.

He shot two of these movies. Lubesky shot. Um. he shoot the counselor? No. The counselor was Darius Wolski. It was, yes. I, by the way, I'm double-checking all of these because I made this quiz at like three

in the morning last night. I was so tired. Go to bed. I wanted to. I wanted to. So bad. All right. One more guess, and then I'll give you the answers. Fuck it. Leatherheads. No. Meet Joe Black and Burn After Reading. We're both

shot by Emmanuel Lesky. Yes. Which movie of these was released in Virgo season. Burn after reading. Burn after reading, early September. Which movie was released in Sagittarius season? Solaris. No.

Thought Solaris was early December. Solaris was in er... Oh, was in late November. So yes, you're right. So there are two Sagittarius movies. Then the other one is... Oceans 11. Ocean's 11.

Yes, very good. Once again, sorry, I was so sleepy. Which movie has the same composer as The Witches of Eastwick and Angela's Ashes. Angelus Ashes, I say. It's John Williams, right? It is John Williams. Seven years into bed. Yes, very good.

Oscar nominated, I believe, for seven years. No, for not for Angela's Ashes. No, because we've done. Right, Angela's Ashes, though. Which movie has the same composer as this. The Neon Demon, Contagion, and Game Night. This is Clint Martinez? Yes, Cliff Martinez.

Yes. Solaris. Yes, Solaris. Very good. Which two of these movies played at the Cannes Film Festival? Money Monster. Yes. And it would have had to have been a number.

another one playing out of competition. Proven. Seven years in Tibet? That's not. Wouldn't have been the counselor. Micho Black? Meacho Black, yes. Really?

Which two movies played at the Toronto International Film Festival? Um... Burn after reading? Yes. and seven years in Tibet? Yes, very good. Which three of these movies feature two characters touching heads or faces on their poster?

The poster as featured on IMDB, I should say. Do lips count? Lips, any parts of faces or heads. Solaris? Solaris, yes, Clooney and a documentary on. Meet Joe Black. There's three of them, though. Oh, okay.

Um... Uh, uh, um, uh, leather heads? No. Seven years in Tibet. Yes, because it's Brad Pitt and the Dalai Lama with their foreheads touching. Um, which of these movies featured the tagline? In the beginning, the rules were simple. There weren't any.

Uh, uh, burn after reading? No. The counselor. No. Okay. Leatherheads. Leatherheads. Because it's the rules of football.

Yeah. Here's an interesting one. Which of these titles has the largest possible Scrabble score? What a great question. The largest possible scrabble score. So Devil's Zone could be high, but then again, you also have seven, years in Tibet. I think it's seven years in Tibet.

It's not. The devil's own? No. Because you can hit the W and the V? Yes, but you're missing one letter that is worth more than both of those. Burn after reading, Oceans 11. Because there's a lot of V's money monster. who needs men

Seven years The counselor at Devil's own What letter am I Is F really high For Burn After Reading? Nope This is a great question, by the way Thank you

Um Um I, a C can't be that high, so it's not going to be one of those. This is a genuine stumper. All right, I'll give it to you. It is Meet Joe Black. How? Because a J is worth, like, 10.

Oh, a J. Yeah, a J. Plus an M and a B and a K and a C. Like, yeah, that's up. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include betrayal, assassin, and basement? Uh, the counselor. No. Although good, good guess.

Burn after reading. No, also another good guess. Oh, the devil's own, because he sleeps in the basement. Yes. Yeah. Which movie got a teen choice award nomination? Seven years in Tibet. No.

Well, hold on. Uh, no. Mito Black. No. Oceans, a lot. Ocean's 11 for Brad Pitt, yes. Which two of these movies were National Border Review top 10 selections? Oceans 11.

Yes. And burn after reading. Yes. Which of these movies, which two of these movies were MTV Movie Award nominees? Ocean's 11. Yes. And seven years into bed? Nope.

Me, Joe Black. No. Devil's own. No, I'll give you a hint. It's for Best WTF moment. Burn after reading? No, although that's a good guess. The counselor.

Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. WTF. Which two of these movies were Golden Globe nominees for score? Meacho Black. Yes. And seven years in Tibet? Yes. Which of these movies got a yoga nomination? As a reminder to our listeners, the yogas are the Spanish Razzis, essentially.

Solaris. No. Micho Black. No. The counselor. No. It was leatherheads for worst foreign actress for Renee Zaltweger. Boo. Leave her alone. Leave her alone. Get a job. Leave her alone. Which two films feature stars of Enders game? Devil's own.

Yes, Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford. And... Uh... Vyla Davis is an Ender's game. Ace of Butterfield. Haley Steinfeld. Is it like John Malkovich,

burn after reading? Nope. Oh, Viola Davis is in Solaris. There you go. Fleuryte. Right past her. Yes. Which two films feature stars of the film's of the movie Ferrari?

Penelope Cruz is in The Counselor. Yep. This next one's a little hard. Dempsey is in Ferrari. Who else is in the car movie? Shailene Woodley. is not in any of these movies. She is not.

Who are the other dudes in Ferrari? Follow down that road, so to speak. I'm just going to guess that it's monuments, men. No, but you're so close, letter-wise. Money Monster? Jack O'Connell? Jack O'Connell is in Ferrari. Who is he in Ferrari?

He's one of the driving dudes. as you mentioned. Okay. Which of these films did the Observer's Rex Reed call a fiasco of infuriating pretentiousness and numbing incoherence? The counselor. No. Meecho Black.

No, one more guess. Solaris. Fuck you. You know it. Fuck you. Whoever wrote that. About which of these films did the Chicago Sun-Times Roger Ebert say, the movie is about two characters and is told from the point of view of the wrong one.

Oh, leatherheads? Nope. Money Monster. Nope. Seven years in Tibet? Seven years in Tibet. Very good. Yes. That's the end of the quiz. Apologies to the Monuments Men for me not having a single question about the Monuments Men.

I'm so sorry. I'll do better next time, I suppose. All right. All right. That's enough of that. Before we get into the Julia Roberts quiz, let's talk a little bit about Julia in this movie. Also, back in the hunt, this, oh, I've seen after the hunt. You haven't seen after the hunt. Here's what I will say, though. After the Hunt has been pretty well kind of knocked down after its festival showings. I still think Julia Roberts is very much in the best actress race. She's incredible. Every review that doesn't. She is incredible in the movie, and I think she's doing something she has never been asked to do. Every time I see someone call the movie Tar Light, I'm like, well, sure, but no, it's really not.

I mean, like, it is about somebody basically having a nervous breakdown, and I think the people who are like, this movie gets me too wrong. It's like, well, it's about people who don't know how to handle that situation well. And I think it's more so a movie about a nervous breakdown set in that type of environment. Yeah. That type of environment being Yale. Yeah. It's definitely the type of movie that I will have more patience for than a lot of it. That's why I'm sort of expecting that I might like it.

But yeah, but I think the fact that everybody, even the people who really hate the movie, talk about how great Julia Roberts is, not even just how good she is, but how great she is. So I do feel like in a weak best actress year, even with Amanda Seifred now jumping into it with Testament of Anley, I think Julia Roberts could contend. I think the movie's going to be too unliked for that to happen. Well, we'll see. I mean, she is Julia Roberts, but Julia Roberts is also given great performances before in movies that don't get her Oscar. I've decided that my job this year in my professional capacity is to, um, prevent consensus, not rule things out. Prevent consensus from forming for as long as possible.

We'll see how I can do. And I appreciate you for that, even though I'm an asshole who can only say, well, no. I do appreciate you for that because it is empirically correct. Everybody should not be ruling things out this early. And especially when it's work at the level that I think she's doing. And it's not like, as far as Luca movies go, which I think part of the issue is it's Luca kind of stretching past his limits, which I do have so much respect for. I'd rather watch it. Is it a movie about Luca being Italian and having the impetuousness that accompanies that?

No, okay. No, no. It's about Luca being a singer, being a lover. picking the flower now before the chance is passed. It's about him being Italian. Took me a second. I was still caught up on the Meredith Brooks lyrics that was still in my head from Cots stealing.

All right. This is our 10th Julia Roberts movie. We have a 10th movie from an actor or actress. We do a quiz, but I switch up the format basically every time because we haven't settled on a good format for 10-timers. So for this one, I'm going to ask you to bring out a pen and a piece of paper. You're going to need to keep stuff written down for this. If I can find a pen.

Sorry, I should have told you this before we started recording, but I forgot. Okay. All set? Okay. So write down these ten movies, these ten Julia Roberts movies. So very first episode we ever did, Monalisa Smile, then Pretta Porte, stepmom

Money Monster We're back with Money Monster The Pelican Brief Notting Hill Hold, please Okay Mary Riley Mary Riley

Secret in their eyes Now if you want to say Joe we never did Secret in Their Eyes for this podcast I remember that more than I remember leatherheads. Ben is back. What if Ben was back?

What if Ben was back? And finally, Ocean's 11. What a set of films, to be honest. What a set of films, indeed. All right, so for this quiz, I am going to ask you to put those 10 movies in order, highest to lowest, based on what their eye. IMDB out of 10 score is. Their IMDB star score out of 10. So I'm going to ask you to order them in 10,

and then we will see how many you've gotten right and we'll go on to phase two from there. Well, because everybody who actually rates movies on IMDB is a heterosexual male who hates women, this might not be that difficult. Well, get to it. Okay, hold on. Okay, I have a guess.

Sorry, one second. What order would you like me to go from? Descending, top to bottom? I would like start with number one and then move on to number 10. Number one is Ocean's 11. Alright. I'm not going to tell you as you go. Oh, okay. Number two, Pelican Brief. All right. Number three, nodding hill. All right. Number four, secret in their eyes.

All right. Number five, Ben is back. All right. Number six, Money Monster. All right. Number seven, stepmom. All right. Number eight, prediporte.

All right. Number nine, Mona Lisa Smile. All right. And number 10, Mary Riley. All right. Now give me a second. Okay, so, of those 10, you got one correct. And you got one, two, three, four within one spot of being correct.

Interesting. So here's the choice I'm going to give you. You can either opt to get the five movies that you were either correct or within one answer from revealed to you. And then you get a second shot where you slot in the other five that you got more seriously. wrong. Or I can give you a second round of clues that are the character names of Julia Roberts's character from all ten of these movies. And for every one of those you get right, I will give you that movie's correct placement. That's impossible. I will never know what her character name was in prediporti. I will read you the character name and then you have to guess what movie.

I think that that is impossible. I would rather know the five. Okay. All right. It's the less version. It's a less fun version of it, but that's fine. All right. So the one that you got right is Oceans 11. That is indeed number one. Notting Hill, which you said is number three, is actually number two. So Notting Hill is number two. You said Ben is back was number five. It's actually number four. You said Money Monster is number six. it's actually number seven. And you said Mary Riley, Mary Riley is number 10. It's really number nine. Wow. Okay, so I thought you were going to be like,

here's the movies, not tell me what place they were. No, now, no. But now you have to get the other five is your last guess. So you need to put the other five in their right spots. Okay, by logical deduction, this is what I think I've come up with.

Okay. Do you just want me to do the whole list? Well, I'll say, so number one, as we said, is oceans 11. Number two is Notting Hill. What do you say is number three? Stepmom? All right. I will record that and we'll get it at the end.

Number four, we said as Ben is back. What do you say is number five? Pelican brief. All right. Writing that down. What do you say is number six? Prediporte. All right.

Number seven, we said as Money Monster. What do you think is number eight? Oh, fuck. I guess I fucked this up. Why? Because I wrote the wrong numbers down. I'll just say Mona Lisa smile, even though I didn't know that's wrong. Why? Where do you think it is? I wrote down seven because I'd misread my own handwriting.

Okay. Mary Riley is number nine, and then what do you think is number ten? Secret in their eyes? All right, so... This was kind of a domino effect of, like, Pelican Brief, could not... be that low. All right. So you said stepmom is number three. That is correct.

Okay. So let's see. The five that you got the within one for, so that's correct. So that's your sixth correct. Number five, you said, is Pelican brief. Yes. That is incorrect. Wow.

Number six, you said is prediporte. Yes. That is incorrect. Wow. Number eight, you said, is Mona Lisa smile. That is incorrect. And number 10, you said a secret in their eyes. That is incorrect.

So my assumption that Pelican Brief would have a higher score. Yeah, really kind of screwed you. Really screwed me. What is up there? Because Pelican Brief is, like, safely one of the best of these movies? It is. It is. Is it also IMDB racism?

It also could be recency-dice. Because, like, the white guys that make a hobby of rating movies on there, always lower-rate any movie. It's also easily the oldest, though, of these ten movies. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, number six, or number five is Mona Lisa Smile. Number six is Pelican Brief. Number seven, we said Money Monster. Number eight is secret in their eyes.

number nine we said is Mary Riley and then number 10 is prediportet. They don't like that prediporte. Predoporte 5 out of 2 out of 10. So, yes. Just for fun, I'm going to give you the character names anyway and we're going to see if you can get them,

right? Okay. And once again, I'm not going to tell you if you're right or wrong until we're done with the 10 because I'm not going to let you, you know, whatever. All right. So number one, Holly Burns. Ben is back Number two

Catherine Anne Watson Oh That's got to be Mona Lisa smile All right Number three Pay very close attention Mary Riley

Mary Riley Yes All right Number four Patty Fenn Money Monster All right Number five

Anna Scott Ooh Pelican brief Number six Tess Ocean Oceans 11 Yes Oh no no no no I have to

back my Anna Scott answer, that is Notting Hill. All right. Number seven. Anne Eisenhower. Secret in their eyes? I don't like that. By the way, that's the only other time I would let you go back is for that Notting Hill. You got your one freebie.

number eight Darby Shaw oh that's Pelican brief number nine uh wait did we get this right one two three four five six seven eight um

one two three four five five six seven sorry Darby Shaw was number nine so I'll move that down there number eight is

Isabel Kelly stats stepmom and number ten is Jess Cobb prediporte then I feel like I got two of these right Number one, Holly Burns, you said Ben is back.

The answer is Ben is back. Number two, Catherine Ann Watson. You said Mona Lisa Smile. It is Mona Lisa Smile. Hey. Number three, you said, Mary Riley. The answer is Mary Riley. Number four, Patty Fen.

You said Money Monster. The answer is Money Monster. Oh, my God. Am I going to, like... Number five, Anna Scott. you made a mistake and then you went back and I allowed it. You said Notting Hill. Notting Hill is correct.

Number six, Tess Ocean. Of course, Ocean's 11. That is correct. Number seven, Anne Eisenhower, you said, secret in their eyes. The answer is prediporte. Damn. Damn. Number eight, Isabel Kelly. You said stepmom. The answer is stepmom.

Number nine, Darby Shaw, Pelican Brief. Yes, correct. Number 10, Jess Cobb is not prediportez. It is the secret in their eyes. So if you had opted for that, you would have won, I would say, pretty easily. If I had gotten the perfect score on can you name Julia Robert's character names, that would be my finest gay guy achievement. I'm saying, I'm saying.

And yet I failed. Ask, listen, if you, gay guys hanging around, want to play a game on your phone, ask your friends, ask your friends actresses character names and see how well they can do. That's a fun one. Ask your friends a net bending character names, see how well they do. Whenever we get to the point that we have a live show, I think that this is one of our game questions. All right. We talked about how this was, oh, getting into why Oceans 11 failed, I think a lot of it is the way that sometimes we just don't slot movies as awards movies.

And then they just, no matter how much people like them, no matter how much people like them, no matter how much money they make, no matter how well the reviews are, because this movie made $183 million and did over 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. This should have, by all rights, been an awards contender. But because everybody was like, that's based on a good time Charlie popcorn movie from the 60s, um, everybody sort of chalked it up to being a popcorn movie. And meanwhile, Warner Brothers was very aggressively pushing both the first Harry Potter movie. And, the majestic sadly

the majestic we've done an episode on so I think I don't think it's anything more than that

what do you think I definitely think that's what it is but even so like this is maybe a case example

of something that we would maybe take a little bit more seriously a movie that today a movie

that makes this kind of money because you also see less and less of that. And I think it's because we have so much pushback now of things that are like genre, et cetera. Yeah. You know, it was so firmly in, you know, in the era that we're talking about with Ocean's 11, it was so firmly true that certain things could be written off very

easily despite their quality. Yeah. And even so, like, it's so extreme that, like, Why doesn't this movie have a Golden Globe Best Comedy or Musical nomination? Right. Okay. That's wild to me. Those Golden Globes, I have that page. Give me those musical comedy. I mean, like, this is also a really, I can see why this movie didn't break through with Oscar beyond even genre stuff, just because, like, well, you look at what that lineup was, you look at the culture, this could just be seen as a popcorn movie.

Sure. So your musical comedy movie. So your musical comedy movies in 2001. It is, it's not an uncrowded field. Moulin Rouge ends up winning. Other nominees are Bridget Jones's diary, Gossford Park, legally blonde, and Shrek. Now, you know, I- It's not a bad lineup. I love legally blonde. You know, I would get rid of Shrek, but Shrek was also like very nearly a Best Picture nominee that year. So, like, Shrek was super popular. You probably were not getting rid of Shrek. If there was an animated category, if it was today's Golden Globes, Shrek would not even be in that category because they have their animated category. Legally Blonde, I love.

I think if you nominate Reese Witherspoon for Legally Blonde, you have done right by Legally Blonde. And you probably don't have to go the extra mile of nominating it for Best Picture, musical, or comedy, certainly not over a movie like Oceans 11, right? I think they can both be there. I love Bridget Jones. You're not, like, you will take that nomination away for me with my... Same principle, really.

Same principle, really, for Bridget Jones. For Oceans or for Legally Blonde? No, same principle as for Bridget Jones is for Legally Blonde, where... Hard disagree. Okay. A perfect romantic comedy. All right. Chris File coming out hard for the Sharon McGuire classic in Bridget Jones's diary. And the Robert Lucetic Master Fee.

piece, legally blonde. So which one do you get rid of? You just get rid of Shrek? I'd get rid of Shrek. I mean, I would get rid of Shrek. I just mean, like, you probably weren't getting rid of Shrek that year. Sure, sure. I also feel like best actor musical or comedy, Gene Hackman wins for the Royal Tendombs, and rightly so. Ewan Rueger is nominated for Mulan Rouge. I always forget that John Cameron Mitchell got nominated for Hedwig and the Engines. Sometimes the globes are cool. Sometimes the globes are better. Hedvig should have also been a best picture nomination, too.

But then you get Hugh Jackman for Kate and Leopold, which is not a bad performance, but it's not an award-worthy performance. And then Billy Bob Thornton for Bandits, which at this point, Billy Bob Thornton was just getting nominated for kind of everything. Bandits is a good, fun movie, Barry Levinson's Bandits. I keep saying we should do Bandits. We should do Bandits. But I think I would nominate Clooney higher than both of those people for Best Actor. Sure. I also would consider

nominating Matt Damon for supporting actor Carl Reiner and supporting actor Carl Reiner, sorry for the Lyman Zerga section alone for any singular scene He's great, he's great I just think Damon's so funny in it Damon's funny

I mean Damon is also like Best in Show probably in 13 Oh okay So, and I as the 13. What's his arc in 13? He wears the nose. Oh, the nose. He wears a nose. He, uh, flirts with Barkin. Right. I love Damon's part in 12 because it's Cherry Jones shows up. And you think she's the law enforcement officer, but she ends up being his mom. I'll be the naysayer on 12 just because. why does Rusty need 11?

I mean, like, I'm always happy to see someone. Oh, I agree with you. But, like, Rusty doesn't, Rusty is, like, Rusty's definable character trait, maybe this is also a knock on Ocean's 11, too, and it's like, it gets by on Brad Pitt's, like, charisma. Rusty is, like, the least interesting character in the whole thing. Well, but...

And he's the second build actor. But his uninteresting, like, his, you know, quote-unquote uninterestingness is the whole point he's like he doesn't have an arc he's just he is there to like make the whole thing

run on rails he he is he's your master of ceremony he's your shock absorption he is your you know he's the go between yeah

in many ways but like the snack if he didn't have his snacks what would he have also much like me if he didn't have his snacks what would he be Also, however you come down on the a, an original, a movie that is a remake is necessarily an adaptation,

I still think, I feel like this feels like as original as screenplay as you can come up with, even though it is based on a previous Oceans 11. Wherever you slot it, I think Ted Griffin should have been a screenplay nominee for this movie. I think it's an incredibly well-written movie. And besides Mulan Rouge, what's a better edited movie this year than... Edited? In 2001, than Ocean's 11. I mean, I agree with you.

Actually, let me bring up my own... Because I know I have Ocean's 11 nominated for a bunch of shit. I mean, Lord knows I like the Lord of the Rings better than you. And, like, Mulholland Drive... Okay, Mulholland Drive. Is really well done. But, like, I take your point. I do take your point.

Like, it is a tremendously well-edited movie. Yeah, certainly better edited than, I imagine. Wait, is this the year that Black Hawk Down won editing? Did it win? Hold, please. Congrats on your most editing, Oscar. Let's see. No offense.

Best film editing was won by... Because, yeah, because Black Hawk Down won best sound mixing, best film editing. Yes, it did. Over a beautiful mind, the Lord of the Rings, the Fellowship of the Ring. Memento, good editing. And Mulan Rouge. So what did we say? What was I looking up again?

Oh, my own. Sorry. Uh, where are you? I mean, my own, I could probably just say right now is the three we mentioned. So this, Moulin Rouge, Mulholland Drive, and then I would probably say in the bedroom and royal tenet bombs. Well, there you go. Let's see. Uh, yeah, I have Damon.

nominated for supporting actor that year along with Don't know Damon nominated for supporting actor along with Ian McKellen for Lord of the Rings Jim Broadbent for Mulan Rouge Jude Law for AI

and Yeah, AI is something to consider there's also Memento but that draws a lot of attention to itself so is it just showy editing? I have Ted Griffin nominated for adapted screenplay along with Memento

in the bedroom Lord of the Rings and Headwick and the Angry Inch. I have Oceans 11 nominated for

ensemble cast along with the Royal Tenen bombs Gosford Park the man who wasn't there and Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring

I have it nominated for film editing along with Memento Mulholland Drive, Moulin Rouge, and the others. Interesting call.

So, yeah. You know who got it right? Who? The French. Because Ocean's 11 was a foreign language film Cesar nominee. This lineup is wild. Also nominated South Korean film Painted Fire by Imquantek. Minority Report.

Spirited away, and the winner, bowling for Columbine. Interesting, man. The French simply love Michael. The French do simply love Michael Moore. They do. They very much do. All right, man. Oh, 2002 MTV Movie Awards, I just want to say.

Oceans 11 gets two nominations. It is nominated for Best Onscreen Team for the 11. Should have won. other nominees Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker for Rush Hour 2 Cameron Diaz, Eddie Murphy, and Mike Myers for Shrek, Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson for Zoolander, and then the winners were Vin Diesel and Paul Walker for The Fast and the Furious.

Now, I like the Fast and the Furious movies. I like that it's a family. I like that it becomes more of a family as it goes along. It's silly that Ocean's 11 doesn't win that. I know that the demo, I know you're not going to give Carl Reiner and Elliot Gould an M.T. movie award when you could give it to Vin Diesel and Paul Walker. I understand how the world works, but come on. George Cloody is nominated for Best Dressed, which I didn't realize was a

category at the MTV Movie Awards. Nor I. Rees Witherspoon is the winner for Legally Blonde. I think we can agree. That's a good choice. Other nominees, Thorough Birch for Ghost World, because glasses. Will Ferrell for Zoolander, because dere leaked. Ben Stiller for Zoolander, because various ensembles. And then Britney Spears for Crossroads. Now, Chris, name one thing that Britney Spears wore in Crossroads

that is in any way memorable or awardable. Tank Topps. Tank Topps and denim. All right. For the, for inventing tank tops and denim, Britney Spears in Crossroads. Best cameo by

the way, as I'm in this section of the IMDB, Snoop Dog wins for Training Day. The other nominees are Charlton Heston for Planet of the Apes, David Bowie for Zoolander, Dustin Diamond and Maid. John Favreau, you will answer for your crimes. No.

No. Kylie Minogue and Moulon Rouge. Awesome. She's the Green Ferry. And then, do you remember Molly Ringwald's cameo and not another teen movie? No. Where she's the airline agent at the gate back when you could have gate agents when people could run up to the gate

and try and stop somebody from boarding a plane. She has a whole monologue. It's nice. It's good for her. All right. Anything else we want to say before we go into the IMDB game? Critics Choice nominee for Acting Ensemble. It loses to Gosford Park. The only other nominee is the rightful winner,

the Royal Tenenbaum. I tried to jot down the celebrities at the boxing match that we saw. By the way, props to Lennox Lewis and Vladimir Klitsko for just being like, Sure, I'll show up for, like, a fake boxing scene in your movie. Spot in Angie Dickinson. Is Angie Dickinson in the original Oceans 11?

Is that why she was there? Maybe. Wayne Newton, Vegas staple. Sigfried or Roy, one of the two of them. Maybe they were both, but I only really saw the one of them. Whoever the hell played Bucky Buchanan from Saratoga, who runs up and tries to accost Saul when he's, when Saul's trying to be Lyman Zerga. a fine momentary performance.

Oh, here's my question to you. Shoot. On the subject of Tess dating Terry Benedict, which one would imagine that after suffering through what she did with Danny, she probably wouldn't want to start dating somebody who is so very obviously a white-collar criminal as Terry Benedict is. Yeah, like, my queen, like, you're saying you don't want to be with another criminal. criminal. Stay out of Vegas. Do you think, though, that this was essentially like lighting the beacon for Danny,

where I'm going to start dating a guy who owns three casinos so that my ex-husband, who's about to get let out of jail, who's a thief, won't be able to resist the three casinos that this, my new boyfriend is... I'm sure there's a Sabrina Carpenter's song about this. All right. All right. That's my three casinos. Yeah, that's a good Sabrina Carpenter. No, like, I'm going to get him back by Tad. I don't know. I think she baited the hook, is what I'm saying. All right, get in the goddamn house. Let's play the IMDB game.

Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress. Just had to guess the top five. I'm too eager to get out of here, I guess. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress. us to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. Yes, it is. Chris, would you like to guess first or give first? Uh, why don't I guess first? All right. So for you, I have chosen. And we talked about Soderberg's long career and one of his most recent movies from this year, in fact, that both of us really liked.

You very, very much so. Do you think that's going to be in your top 10 this year, BlackBag? BlackBag, absolutely. All right. I mean, I still have a lot to see, but, you know, I might have to, like, love everything as much as I love BlackBag for it to not be there. Hopefully it's a year as good as that. in BlackBag somebody who've not done

for IMDB game before somebody who you like quite a bit Mr. Tom Burke Oh I love Tom Burke Well then you should have no problem guessing his known for The souvenir

Yes Mank Not Mank Somehow His performances as Orson Welles in Mank Did not make it Netflix continues to be not well represented

in the IMD Furiosa. Furiosa, A Mad Max Saga. He's so hot and Furiosa. It's unreal. He is. He's a very handsome man.

Hmm. Mr. Burke. What else? I remember he was in that movie with Ruth Sheen that was like a COVID festival movie. She dances to PJ Harvey

But I don't remember the name of the movie Okay But I'm trying to think I love him But what other They're gonna all be smaller movies Because if Mank's not in there What the hell is in there?

Or he's higher build Because he only has like a scene or two in Mank But there's such good scenes Such a good actor Ruth Sheen What is this? maybe um black bag yes black bag well done okay wow i thought i was moving things along to get my years okay

i mean it's cool that black bag's in there do you mean ruth wilson ruth wilson not ruth shee i was like very cool that tom burke and ruth sheen dancing to p j harvey would be crazy you're thinking of the movie true things um sure ruth wilson not i was so intrigued two very different activities i was so intrigued by the idea of Ruth Sheen. And like, I love Ruth Sheen so much, so that just makes me look stupid. All right, one more. Ugh.

I know it's wrong, but I'll say the Tuvenir, even though he's very much not in it. It is not the Toovadier. Yeah, I knew that it's wrong. I just want the year. Your year is 2013. And let me make sure that it actually came out in that year. He's got IMDB credits dating back to, like, 2003. So he's like a baby.

or he's older than you think this movie might have been Festival 2013 release in 2014 but let me see no it released in 2013 in the United States as well okay it is a movie I have not seen

I believe you have I assume it's British What country claims this movie? Hold on. No, the UK is not one of these six movies credited to this movie, or six countries credited to this movie. Wow. Okay. So, like America, Australia, France, and... It is. Do you want me to tell you? Yes. All right. It is.

Denmark, France, the United States, Sweden, Belgium, Thailand. Thailand? Yes. 2013. Yes. Is it like the way back? No, it is not the way back. Not Peter Wears the way back.

Which would be Australian. Yeah. Is it an Oscar nominee? He's like sixth build. in this. It is not an Oscar nominee. Is it like The Emperor's Club? No. Very different vibe.

Is it a horror movie? No. It's genres are Gangster Psychological Drama, Action, Crime, drama thriller. Okay. From, what did we say?

Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, United States, France, and Thailand. so it's like a mob movie i think so it's so much yeah it's about certainly a criminal underworld it's about um it's very much style over substance if this was a dish on the great british bakeoff it would be dinged for style over substance um i don't think anybody really liked this movie um oh is it only god forgives it is only God forgives. Yeah, he's the brother in that. There we go.

All right, yes. Only God forgives. Well, you got there. There we are. Okay. Much easier for you. I also went into the recent Soderberg filmography and a performance we both really love. I think

20 years ago, this would be winning this actor and Oscar. From the Christophers, I chose Christopher. Christopher McCallon. I chose you and McCullen. All right. I do love that you pronounce it McCullen and not McCallon.

That's how it's pronounced. I don't think so, but okay. I've heard other actors say McCullen. I don't think I've ever done that. I've never heard that. All right, anyway. Anyway, gods and monsters. Correct.

The first X-Men. Incorrect. Lord of the Rings. Return of the King. Correct. Ooh. All right. Let's get this roast of cooking.

Let's go. I still think an X-Men is on there, but I don't want to say yet. God, is it cats? Also incorrect. Okay, thank God. All right, what are my years? Your years are 2001 and 1995. Fellowship of the Ring.

Correct. And then 95 is Richard the 3rd. Richard the third, the titular role. Good taste for IMDB. Very good. So no X-Men, but yes, Richard the third. Good for you. Good for you.

Well, he's first billed. He's probably in a lot of the, like, photos. Got a bunch of precursor attention and whatnot. Yes, very, very good. All right, Chris, that was super fun. That is our episode. Listeners, if you want more of this head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this head oscarbuzz.

com. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? uh letterboxed and blue sky at chris v file that's f i i am on letterbox and blue sky at joe read you can also subscribe to my patreon exclusive podcast on the films of demi more called demi demi myself and i at patreon.com slash demi pod you can also find me on vulture dot com where we have kicked off the movies fantasy league for another season uh we are still accepting signups through december 18th that is a new feature this year you will only be able to draft movies that have not opened and have not earned awards points lately. So the longer you wait,

the more limited your options will be. But it is not too late. And if you want to join the This Had Oscar Buzz mini league, we are called Gary's Supreme this year. Gary is plural, not possessive. Supreme, two words, both capped. We'll go through and clean it up if you screw that up but why do I do that when you can get it right the first time come have fun with us I would also just like to float that I tried to make my Marty Supreme joke

it went unacknowledged by joke wait I missed what it's in the group chat like why would you make a movie about a guy named Marty who comes with sour cream like stupid I just want a regular Marty stupid I don't like sour cream I don't want the

Supreme. Stupid. Stupid. Why would you make a Marty with peppers and mushrooms and olives in the whole bit? Have you ever been around anybody who's ordered a Supreme Pizza? Listen, this is one of my rules about pizza. You cannot have too many toppings. You cannot especially have too many vegetables because it makes the pizza soggy.

Soggy and gross. But I agree with you. two toppings max and like really you have to really justify the combo of toppings like honestly like it's one topping max is really like polite society no no because like you mix a pepperoni with a ham or you like if they do really thinly sliced red pepper then like red pepper that's fine but i can i i just not just willy-nilly not this thing of like some people want onions and some people want meatballs and like that doesn't make any sense you guys come on um anyway check us out at vulture.com for the movies fantasy league. We're having such a good time. We also launched a Discord over there, so you can check out the link to the Discord from Vulture as well. I am participating. We'll see how that goes. We'll see how my Discord era goes. Anyway, we here at the podcast. That's the dark web to me. I know. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meevius, for their technical guide. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember that you can rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility.

So wedge yourself into that money crate push cart thing and then emerge at an opportune time and write us a nice review, won't you? That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Thank you.