This Had Oscar Buzz - 362 – Used People

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

We love talking forgotten awardsy films here on This Had Oscar Buzz and this week’s episode is a doozy. In 1992, Todd Graff’s off-Broadway play The Grandma Plays was adapted into the film Used People with both a high Oscar and theatre pedigree. The Beeban Kidron film starred Shirley MacLaine as a new widow finding love (in Oscar nominee … Continue reading "362 – Used People"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hacks and friends. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. A trip to Bendels and an hour at the beauty parlor, you would be surprised how fast a friend friend could become or bring him home to meet your mother friend.

Not moving to Florida, neither is the mother. Mother's in the room. She can make her own decisions. I'm not moving to Florida. Oh, class, my sister. She brought a date to her own father's funeral. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast calling it White Jack. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here. here, as always, with my sister dressing up as a best actress winner from when she won her Oscar, Joe Reid. Okay, we need to talk about this right off the bat. All this time, there has existed a film where Marcia Gay Hardin dresses up as Marilyn Monroe, Barbara Streisand in her Oscar-winning, Oscar-acceptance outfit. And it should be said, looking fab. Faye Dunaway as Bonnie Parker and Anne Bancroft as Mrs. Robinson and like Jackie Kennedy, although we don't really get the full like Lamor of that of Jackie Kennedy from the Kennedy funeral. But you never see this. Nobody knows that this. Nobody knows. Nobody knows that this exists out there. We are bringing this news from down upon the mountain to the people.

To all the Garees that opened up their podcast feed and said they're doing, what? What is this movie I've never heard of? Let me just tell you now, this is maybe the most best actress movie we've ever talked about. Yeah. Because at the time that this movie came out, three best actress winners, including one in kind of a thankless role, an eventual best supporting actress winner who dresses up as a best actress winner from when she won her Oscar. Right. Plus, the supporting actress nominee, Sylvia Sydney. In Sylvia Sydney. Yep. Yep.

Have you ever seen Summer Wishes Winter Dreams or whatever it's called? I have not. I have, and it is definitely a movie that happened, and it happened and unfolded in front of me. Were there both Summer Winters and, or Summer Wishes and Winter Dreams? In this economy? I love Joanne Woodward. do not remember anything about that movie. She plays her mother, I believe,

and Sylvia Sidney is not in much of the movie, but is, I mean, Sylvia Sidney should have been nominated for Beetlejuice. We all know this. Like, this is obvious, right? Like, that would have made sense. Sylvia Sidney should have, like, a Nobel Peace Prize. Sylvia Sidney, queen. Okay, so in the better version of this movie that is just her and Jessica Tandy being,

older sisters and, you know, wearing various... They're how to make an American quilt. Is that what you're saying? Basically, are you the Sylvia Sidney or am I the Sylvia Sidney? Who's the Jessica Tandy? How is this breaking down?

Well, okay, so let's see. Sylvia Sidney is the one with more ailments. Jessica Tandy is the one who sounds like she was born on a ship in the middle of the island. Atlantic Ocean. What are the other sort of defining characteristics of the two of them? I feel like I'd probably be the Sylvia Sidney. Okay.

A little bit more of a, you know, a little more out of it, a little more... A little less jewelry. Sure. Yes. I loved the two of them together. I did too. And it was maybe the least... plot essential of this movie.

We'll get into this movie. It's a very scattered movie. Anytime this movie doesn't have... Anytime this movie has fewer than 30 people in the house at any time, I'm not as enamored of it. Like, I feel like this movie exists at its best during, like, big post-holiday receptions or, like, everybody's over for, you know, whatever, Passover,

or the funeral breakfast or whatever. It's the rare movie that, like, it doesn't get better when it boils it down to, like, a couple of characters in a room. Right, right. And we'll talk about all the various different plot lines, too, but you mentioned them getting together for Passover. This is a movie about a Jewish family, played by about the least Jewish people.

going to bring this up. Jessica Tandy, extremely not possible as Jewish. She's playing the Jewish mother to Shirley MacLean, who is playing the Jewish mother. I guess she won her Oscar for playing a Jewish woman, but much more convincingly, we should say. I think, I think, yeah, it gets, I guess, I imagine a little bit more plausible down the line, but I don't think any of the four major women in this film read as particularly Jewish. Like, I could be proven wrong when it comes to Marsha or something. But anyway, can we talk about the disparity between Shirley on the poster, Shirley and the film?

I do love a poster that was clearly photographed well after the film was made, where it's just, it's Shirley dressed as Shirley, you know what I mean? It's Kathy She's got her red hair Kathy's like got her Because this is like Post Dick Tracy right But like Yeah nobody is dressed like they are

From the movie Except for Marcello Kathy is the closest resemblance To her character I suppose that's true Like Marcia's in the back But you can tell that she is in a smart pants suit Mmhmm

Mmhmm yep yep Yeah Shirley definitely is the most like Not wearing her wig from the movie Like that is No she's in like fabulous top. They make her very dowdy in this movie. And the wig that they give her in this film is unfortunately egregious to the point that in the third act of the movie, she gets a

perm and it's supposed to be like representative of her character growth. And it's like actually she might even look worse. Literally have her own hair. I mean, I guess it works for that character, you know what I mean? Because I guess I imagine the thought process there is we need to kind of work to get audiences out of seeing this woman as Shirley McLean and, you know, seeing her as this character because this character isn't really, isn't a super Shirley kind of character? I don't know. She is and she isn't. This is the problem. Like, You go back and you read what, like, reviews are still available online for this movie, and so many people compare it negatively to Moonstruck, which I kind of don't get.

And it's surprising to not see the amount of people because she's kind of like a mean mom in this movie. You don't see as much comparisons to her terms of endearment character. So it's like, I understand why they cast McLean in this role, but it's almost like, kind of does nothing for her. You know, it's... I think it probably feels of a piece with her character...

It's like, what if her characters from Steel Magnolias and Postcards from the Edge merged, where it's like, the momness of postcards from the edge merged with the grouchiness of Weezer Boudreau, you know what I mean? Like there's... And they lived in mid-century queens.

Right, right, right, yes. I started off this movie, very optimistic that I might emerge from it and being like, what a charming movie. What a like lovely little, you know, slice of life. I love that it was set in the late 1960s. I love that it was about sort of a recent widow and her, you know, squabbley. family and all of that. And I was, I was, I was optimistic. And then the movie sort of became what it was about. And I very slowly but surely was like, well, I don't like that storyline. And I

don't particularly like that storyline. And this new character is not great. And this characterization feels very surfacy. And ultimately, you get to the end of the movie and you're you're like, oh, like, none of this delivered the way that I wanted it to, which is too bad. Well, and it's like it's five, maybe even six competing stories, five or six competing movies at once. And most of those movies, like, we've seen them before. We've liked those movies before. Yes. And this movie isn't not cliche in any of them, but it's like almost at every,

moment you are just like, I wish it was just this movie because it would probably be better, the performances would be better, and it would serve the material, the character arcs, a lot better if it wasn't so scattered in its attention, which, okay, if each of these characters are in their own little movie, which one would you say was the best movie? This is a good question. in fairness the Sylvia Jessica movie is never a bad movie so there's that I guess my answer is the Marsha Gay Harden movie because that's my answer it has the scenes that I think work the best and it includes the sun and so you would have the sort of like the storyline with her coming to terms with you know she had lost a child you know many many years ago and she's sort of retreated from life and all of that. I just don't know if the movie invests in that character beyond what has happened to her and the walls she has put up. Do you

know what I mean? Like, I don't know if we ever really like get to know that woman. It's sympathy. These are more aligned with Kathy Bates than it is with her. Yeah. And, but man, I hate that Kathy Bates storyline. We'll get into it. The thing about the Marcia storyline is I think Marcia's the best performance in the movie, which she's the only non-Oscar nominee of the cast at the point of this movie. Six months later, she would be on Broadway and Angels in America. I was trying to figure out where this fit in the timeline of Angels in America. Okay. But she's eventually going to win an Oscar within the span of a decade. I think she also maybe has the least cliched story because you think it kind of is,

But then when she has the whole Mrs. Robinson into a BDSM sex scenario where she's plying Joe Paneliano for information about her son while, like, getting freaky with him, the movie kind of, like, finds its pulse for a scene? I was going to say, like, all of a sudden, I'm, like, I'm leaning forward a little bit. First of all, sexiest I've ever found Joe Pantleiano. Joe Pantiliano in just... Oh, have you not seen Bound? He's a bad guy in Bound. He's such a scumbag and Bound. I don't know. I can't find him sexy. Maybe I'm just thinking of that one hot tub photo.

Him and Jennifer Tilly. Maybe. He is very sexy in that scene in this movie. Yeah, yeah. But so is Marcia. Oh, I mean, well, yes, but also, like, she's dressed as Mrs. Robinson and, like, doing, like, you know what I mean? It's like, she never really. really feels until the very, very end of the movie, like an actual person. She feels like

this construct, this, like, odd construct. There are two movies that I've always confused, sort of 2.5 movies that I've always sort of confused this movie with, because I've never seen it, but I've always sort of known about it as this, like, um, um, Oscar nominee that sort of, you know, uh, exists in the, or not Oscar nominee, uh, Golden Globe nominee, and it sort of exists in the ether. Similar in a way where I always feel like the Spitfire Grill and Unhook the Stars are kind of the same movie in that I've seen neither of them, but they're sort of like in the same sort of soup.

But this movie, the Diane Keaton directed Unstrung Heroes, the movie The Cemetery Club, do you know about the movie, The Cemetery Club? Isn't that like an older group of friends? It is Ellen Burstyn, Olympia Dukakis, and Diane Ladd as an older group of friends. And I imagine, I imagine I will love it. They're all older Jewish ladies too. And they, and I imagine the cemetery club is the idea that they're like. As a Jewish woman, I don't know.

I don't know. Well, maybe she's just like among this group of Jewish women because it's set in a Jewish community in Pittsburgh. And then the third. one is a movie that doesn't exist, but, like, some, like, Phantom Paul Mazursky movie that, like, would have existed around this time. And I tried to look up like... Moscow on the Hudson. No, but you know what I mean? It's just like it felt, it felt like there was the closest I could find was, like, scenes from a mall or something like that. And it's just like, but like that doesn't really fit. But, like, some kind of, you know, sort of like family

dromedy, you know, set in the past kind of thing. Maybe I always just assumed that Paul Mazursky directed on, uh, used people or something. But anyway, spiritually, yes. Because to me, this is a movie that exists only as a poster. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it's like, it does not, you, maybe, maybe all those critics that compare this movie to Moonstruck, we're just looking at this giant, golden moon on the poster. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that or it's just like, they can't tell ethnic groups apart. Well, but Marcella Mastriani in this movie, sort of pursuing, um, pursuing Shirley Maclean, isn't unlike Danny I. Yellow and Moonstruck?

Older, older, this movie isn't even really a romantic comedy. I would almost say this movie really isn't even a comedy. You know, older romance slash, you know, dowdy, or like a woman who we're supposed to see is dowdy, but she is obviously gorgeous, you know, comes out of her shell over the course of very, various family dramas. But to me, this movie exists as a poster because this poster, it's like, Shirley's at the center kind of hugging the top of this moon over, you know, New York City landscape.

And then everybody's kind of like a floating head around her. Right, gathered around her. What's up with this moon, Shirley, they all seem to say. Exactly. It looks like a movie about a community theater troupe or, you know, like a set of creatives. or a group of people who meet at a bar on Sunday evenings. It is a film with... That seems like the vibe, not family drama,

because, by the way, none of these women look like they belong in the same family. Kathy Bates and Marshall Gay Hardin could sell me as sisters. I could, I do like them spiritually as sisters. There should be more movies where they play sisters. The rare movie, maybe not the rare movie, but a movie with two separate taglines on the same poster. one of which says a story about love, family, and other embarrassments. And then the other tagline is Life's Rough, So Laugh a Little.

A Very Little, I would say. A Very Little. Also, used people is a terrible title for this. What does it mean? I don't understand what it means. It makes you think of used cars, right? Like, this is a group of car salesmen on this poster that go for ads. happy hour or like they own a consignment shot but is that a metaphor that like presents itself during

the movie at all if anybody in this movie sold any kind of used goods if somebody like ran a secondhand store or something which like not out of the realm of possibility let doris roberts's character or wherever the fuck like just run a secondhand store surely has a very lucrative e-page yeah so um the original title from the off Broadway play by Todd Graff, who gave us a watch show. We'll talk about Camp. We'll talk about Todd Graf. No, we're going to.

The original title is The Grandma Plays. Better. Which, depending on how close this is to the original material, considering he did the screenplay, I'm willing to bet very close. This is extremely adapted from an off-broadway play. You can tell as you're watching it. But the Grandma plays. Not a better title for what this is about.

but you are getting me to buy a ticket a lot faster with a title called The Grandma Plays. 100%. Somebody was... Ooh, what's that? Well, we could see Boop people definitely would have been drawn to Grandma Plays. Oh, well, we could see the Grandma Plays.

Exactly, exactly. I tried to look up who the original off-Broadway cast was of the Grandma Plays to see if there was anybody noteworthy in it Because, I mean, there had to have been some type of hubbub around this play for it to get quickly adapted into a movie. Right, right. Did you know that the Internet Off-Broadway database is no longer live?

No. What's happening? Culture's dying. I think it's transitioning to some other new server that doesn't have all those records anymore. But, like, you can maybe find some of it on the way back machine, but I.O.B. D.B. is dead and no one told us. We're losing our history here, folks. We all got entirely too comfortable just assuming that the internet meant that we would have everything forever now. And we allowed the job of archivist to sort of be seated to the internet. And now the

internet is proving itself to be an unreliable repository for our cultural history. How am I going to go look up like Gina Gianfrido plays anymore? This is what I mean. We need to start employing people, and Lord knows where the money's going to come from. We need to start employing people to, you know, keep our history. Preserve our history. Preserve our history. Thank you. Thank you. Listeners, if any of you know who was in the original cast of the grandmas plays, please. Please get in the comments of our Patreon.

If your parents came to visit you in New York City in the very early 1990s, and you were bereft of what you wanted to see, and because, like, Jelly's last jam was completely sold out or whatever, and you saw the grandma plays, let us know, hit us up. I'm trying to think of, like, who might have, like, all of these, like, Marsha Gay-Harden and Kathy Bates kind of seem like the kind of people who would have been in. you know, the theater production of this at the time. That makes sense. All of this is to say, by the way, though, I want to say, before we move on, just while we're still setting the table, all of this is to say that I did not hate this movie. It did not live up to my perhaps unrealistic expectations. I think it's very tricky when you expect a movie to surpass your expectations.

You know what I mean? Because then all of a sudden you're setting new expectations. I expected this movie, I think, to be a pleasant surprise. And when it wasn't, then it was like, oh, well, now I feel that down. And it's like, but it only really, like, didn't do the thing that, you know what I mean? Well, when we locked this episode in, I was like, oh, hell yeah, we're going to love this movie. Look at this cast. Well, it's about, like, women?

Yes. We love women. It's like a family of Jewish women. Sign me up. Absolutely. Gay child. My child can't be gay. He loves women. The women. Kathy Bates, Shirley MacLean. Yeah. We chose this movie for a very specific reason, which is the last time when we did our Madam Susatzka episode, we forgot to do a six-timers quiz for Shirley MacLean. So we owe everybody a Shirley-McLean six-timers, and we're like, we've got to pick something, only to realize that, like, we had kind of picked the cupboard.

nearly clean of all possible Shirley MacLean. This might be the last Shirley MacLean movie we ever do on this podcast, because guarding tests aside, there's really nothing else. And at this point, are we going to do guarding tests just to, you know. Well, we've got a lot of movies. We've got a lot of movies ahead of the queue, ahead of guarding tests and the queue is what I'll say. We'll see. Chris is more enthused about guarding tests than I am. I'm ready to let I like guarding. I'm ready to let Tess wander off, but Chris, Chris says we must protect Tess at all

costs. Joe says that funding has been cut. Tess can no longer be guarded. Let her roam. We have taken down the fences surrounding Tess. Tess is now free to roam the ground. Anyone looking to put a hit out on Tess, now is your time. Wow. Wow. In these times of violence, I can't believe you would bring that up. Why don't you... I'm a pacifist, sir. How dare you? Why don't you tell the listeners? Wait, is it or is it I? Why don't you tell the listeners? Hey, Joe, why don't you tell the listeners? Okay. Yeah, listeners, if you are not already signed up for our Patreon, which is called this had Oscar buzz, colon, turbulent brilliance, which is, by the way, a Shirley McLean reference. It is a reference to her Oscar speech. If you have not looked up, On YouTube, Shirley MacLean accepting the Academy Award for Best Actress for 1983 is Terms of Adairment.

Do so quickly. She's so good. It is my morning mantra. It's my mindfulness and exercise first thing in the morning. When she says, what does she say? Like, talent is like clay. You have to mold it. I love when she says that.

Yes, we have a Patreon. We've had a Patreon for quite some time now. And for $5 a month, you can have access to all of it, all of the wonderful episodes. We've been churning out two episodes a month for a couple of years now. And there are some really, really good movies in there. One of the two episodes we churn out a month is an analysis of a particular movie. We call these exceptions. And why is it an exception?

Because it adheres to most of the rules of the movies that we cover on this, had Oscar buzz. High expectations, disappointing results. Except, uh-oh, got an Oscar nomination or two or maybe three along the way, but it was still a disappointment. Movies such as Tim Burton's Big Fish, Mike Nichols' is Charlie Wilson's War, Barbara Streisand's The Mirror has two faces, our beloved Knives Out, Our Beloved The Phantom of the Opera, two episodes that we did with guests, respectively Jorge Malina and Natalie Walker. These are some really good movies and some really bad movies with really fun conversations about them. So if you have ever wanted to hear us expound upon the virtues or lack thereof of movies like House of Gucci, Vanilla Sky, The Lovely Bones, this is your place to do it.

Our other monthly episode takes the form of what we call an excursion. So this isn't about a movie specifically. it is about a aspect of a movie culture that we're complete dorks for. So things like watching old award shows or perusing old entertainment weekly fall movie previews or firing up an old Hollywood reporter actress roundtable. Oh, I didn't mention that one of our most recent exceptions episode, which is Quineath Paltrow in Country Strong. tune in to see whether it's one of those movies

that turns out to be really good or really bad you may be surprised or not we'll see have you seen the film you will not be surprised as it as pertains to excursions our most recent that will be coming out this month

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So this is an episode sort of dedicated to that task. So we're going to be very studious and scholarly about it. I think you will have a really good time listening to it. I am really looking forward to recording that episode. So in general, there's just a heck of a lot of content for your, No, no. Oh, I said the C word. I'm sorry.

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Joe and Chris Entertainment. If you would like these episodes, if you would like these conversations about culture, you should go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. You will be very content with the episodes that you find there. More than content. Enthusiasmate. That's true. That's true. Used people.

Used. Hused. Hused. Hused people. Yes. Directed by one Beban Kidron Written by Todd Graff Based on his play

The Grand Ma Plays Todd Graff A lot of flat vowels in that name Todd Grafft of Camp Todd Graff Todd Graff Who Made Camp Yeah

starring Shirley MacLean Kathy Bates Marcia Gayharden Jessica Tandy Marcello Matroiani Sylvia Sidney Doris Roberts Lee Wallace and Joe

Pantiliano The movie had a... Joey Pants Sans Pants Well yeah I mean It depends on Joey no pants

Because he's still wearing pants if you're in the UK Joey Briefs Joey Briefs There's The movie opened limited December 16th, 1992, had a wide release on January 22nd, 1993. Joe, did you get to see the box office the week of the limited release of used people? I didn't.

I'm looking at it. I'm not even going to ask you what your double feature would be. This is the second weekend of a few good men. It topped the box office, followed by Aladdin, Home Alone 2. Forever Young in its first week of release and The Bodyguard, and then bombing in sixth place, opening toys. A future exceptions episode, toys. We'll definitely do toys eventually.

Yeah, my double feature, that's pretty easily. I'm a frontrunner here. I'm seeing a few good men in Aladdin. I mean, and realistically, I probably did see... I definitely saw Aladdin in theaters and Home Alone, too, in theaters. A few good men I did not see until it came out on video. the bodyguard I did not see until it came out on video. Forever Young, I probably did not see until it came out on video.

That's the one with Elijah Wood and Jamie Lee Curtis, right? Is it that Forever Young? Oh, I was thinking it was dying young. No, different movie. Which I've never seen. No. This is the one where Mel Gibson, like, wakes up from Cryo Freeze or something. Why is he Forever Young?

Hold on, looking this up. Um, let's see. Forever Young is also one of those phrases that is like 12 different songs. Yes, okay, so Mel Gibson, Elijah Wood, Jamie Lee Curtis. The plot is, he's a United States Army test pilot and a crash landed, a prototype bomber, and is experimental cryonic chamber freezing. And then the day he is to propose to his girlfriend, she goes into a coma following an automobile accident.

And so he's so grief-stricken that he asks to be put into cryo-freeze for one year. But, oopsie daisies, he was instead frozen for 40 years. And so he is unfrozen in 1992 and befriends young Elijah Wood. And eventually, I believe, romances Elijah Wood's mother, who is played by Jamie Lee Curtis. So. The convergence of Nicholas Sparks and Austin Powers. Written by J.J. Abrams. Oh, boy.

There you go. There you go. Dan Fogelman Coded. Listen, J.J. Abrams is not in the same league as Dan Fogelman and take that back. I'm just saying, humble beginnings. Humble beginnings, for sure. But I definitely, definitely wanted to see this movie very much after seeing it. Because this is one of those movies that, like, the TV spot was on constantly, just constantly on television. during like whatever family sitcoms we were watching from the 8 to 9 p.m. hour.

As you can see, because I had to read the Wikipedia plot description, I don't remember it beyond the broadest of broad strokes. It's a poster that is 75% Mill Gibson's face. I know there's a lot of those, but that is the poster. Funny thing about the bodyguard, which... The funny thing about the bodyguard is Fletcher could have drowned. Yes. The funny thing about the bodyguard, though, I believe that was rated R. Sure was. So I was not able to see it. But because the music was so popular, it was a movie I very much wanted to see. And so what I did, instead of being able to see it, and while you had, because you had to wait like six months to be able to see it on video, is I bought the novelist.

of the bodyguard, and I read the novelization. Because we were allowed to read the word fuck, but not here. And boy, did you, because, like, that was you, there was, uh, I probably less explicit, you know, sex and language than that, that, then would, uh, shock me today. But as a 12 year old, reading, uh, the novelization of that and seeing how Whitney Houston's character was just talking about fucking like oh my god um the thing about being of the generation that was not allowed to initially see the bodyguard because it was rated r meant that there was a delay in discovering that the bodyguard as a film kind of sucks like it not a good

movie well and like bless her heart and may she rest Whitney's not very good in the bodyguard Unfortunately. But the music's undeniable, and the songs are, like, some of the best. So that's the tradeoff. I'm glad that we as a culture have come around on Queen of the Night. Queen of the Night got dunked on at the time. Was always one of my face. Great song.

Was always one of my face. Two gay people. Good song. She had the stuff that you want and the thing that you need. Both. In this economy, too. Like, imagine, like, a political candidate having both. You know, she did, and she was the Queen of the Night.

This is why if Kamala Harris had both the stuff that we wanted and the thing that we needed, she'd be president right now. And we're not ready to talk about that, so. Enough. She's mother. So five minutes out, she's eating. So five minutes ago, that's mother in Queen of the Night. She's the Queen of the Night. Queen of the Night.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Queen of the Night should be like an Oscar category, you know. At the end of the night. ceremony we vote on who was the queen of the ceremony someone comes out looking stunning and the audience is like so happy that they're there but maybe we didn't know that they were there like goldie hans showing up uh parasite year obviously queen of the night is jane fonda yes oh yeah the bodyguard also part of a mini genre of movies that seemed to worry there was a there was a level of about violent or terroristic actions happening at the Academy Awards, because, of course, the climactic attack in the bodyguard happens at the Academy Awards. There is a plotline in the

naked gun 33 and a third about some sort of attack at the Academy Awards. So people didn't even know that 20 years hence Will Smith would be charging the stage to slap Chris Rock, but clearly they knew that there was potential for violence at the Academy Awards. That's the worst thing about the Bodyguard, too, is how shitty those fake Oscars look in that movie. It looks so bad. I guess if you want to expand it to just fake Oscars, you can include In-N-Out in that mini-trend because the In-N-Out also presented a fake Oscars. Glenn Close was the Queen of the Night. She was the Queen of the Night at those Oscars. Yes, Should we make this a superlatives category?

Queen of the night? Queen of the night. Mark it down. All right, I'm writing this down right now. And as you, as I am writing this down, we need to get into this plot description. Joe, are you ready to give a 60 second plot description for the motion picture used people? Yeah, but I'm not prepared so it's going to be really rambly, so we'll see how it goes. Tough shit.

Your 60 seconds plot description for used people starts now. Charlie McLean, Kathy Bates, Marsha Gay Hardin, and Jessica Tandy. I'll play Jewish ladies, so first of all. Second of all, Shirley MacLean plays a widow named Pearl, who's obviously husband has died. She has two adult daughters, one of whom constantly dresses up like old Hollywood stars and is played in Marsha Gay-Harden,

the other of whom has a storyline that is entirely summed up by her being fat, and she is played by Kathy Bates. 30 seconds. Then into her life walks on the day of her husband's funeral, Marcello Mastriani, who has decided he is going to court this lady and his family is Italian and her family is Jewish and are they going to get along and Kathy Bates and Marcia Gay-Hardin don't get along and Kathy Bates is starting to see somebody and Marsha Gay-Harden has a son named Sweet Pea who thinks in the wake of his grandfather's death that he has impervious to pain or harm and does things like touch the third rail on a train and maybe jump off a building. And Marsha Gay Harden, in trying to figure out what's wrong with him, seduces Joe Pantaliano, who is a psychiatrist who the son has confided in and is also married to one of Marcella Mastriani's relatives. Eventually, and I'm trying to remember how this all happens, but, like, things just kind of work out. Shirley McLean ends up getting together with Marcella Mastriani.

Kathy Bates feels fine about herself and gets self-esteem. Marshall Gay-Hardin visits the grave of her child who died at age one, and everybody's fine at the end, question mark the end. 45 seconds. What happens in this movie that, like, unhooks the stars here? What, like, what, what happens? Shirley McLean gets a perm. I suppose that's it. I guess she has a conversation.

Happy Bates does an up to. Yeah. I guess there's at some point, like, it's a series of, like, conversations where somebody just like says to Shirley MacLean, like, accept the love that Martello Mastriani is offering you. And then somebody else is like, be nicer to your daughter, Kathy Bates, because you're mean to her. And somebody says to Marsha Gay-Harden, like, face up to your trauma. And all of the, all those characters do it. And Martella Mastriani saves the young boy from jumping off of the roof. And this is weirdly low-key, a movie about young boys needing male

role models. Which I don't super love. Like, that kid keeps needing, like, Joe Pantleiano and Marcello Mastriani to, like, intervene to make sure he doesn't accidentally, or I guess on-purpose kill himself. You mentioned Kathy Bates, the whole thing being fat. Her character is, we're supposed to believe that she's such a fucking beast that her mother won't even refer to her by her birth name she has to have a like your ugly nickname for her I guess because of her bibb

listener if you thought that there were there were enough movies in the world where the plot line is just isn't Kathy Bates so hideous second time in two years there's another one second time in two years that Kathy Bates and Jessica

Tandy are in the same movie where the plot line is Kathy Bates is too fat we got to figure it out It's like one of my least favorites sub-genres in movies. I love Kathy Bates. I'm always so happy to see Kathy Bates, but like the movies were so convinced that

Kathy Bates was a beast. And it's just not true. Like she looks beautiful in this movie. Kathy Bates, there was a little bit of a news cycle this year where like Kathy Bates admits to using Ozempic or whatever because she lost weight for Matlock or whatever. She was

very upfront about it and very kind of matter-of-fifference. fact about it and you know good for her i do love the fact that kathy bates has had like a 40-year film career where she was just like what you know what i mean like this is who i am this is what i look like i'm going to win an oscar i'm going to get several more nominations i'm going to win emmys i'm going to direct things i'm going to be constantly cast in film and television and i'm going to have a robust fucking career and y'all can eat you it and no pun intended but maybe pun intended like she is the queen of several nights yes it's like she's always been great too is the other thing i just spiritually hate this thing i do too i could

despite this subgenre of movies where it's just like isn't she so ugly and it's like no and i hate that like yeah i don't know spiritually for that performer i hate that she was constantly saddled It does feel like that as a plot. In particular, like family comedies, this seem to be like a very reliable trope in like family comedies that like there's the one person who the parent is always ragging on them that they're eating too much. You know what I mean? And it's like, isn't that just isn't that what all everybody's families are like and whatever? And it's like, man, that's depressing to think about.

and most of these are movies without gay men because it's like you think of all of the scenes of fried green tomatoes and like some of the outfits that she wears in that movie like the towanda scene where the i'm older and i have more insurance if a gay man passed her in that little like strawberry shortcake ass outfit they would be like you better fucking work kathy bates well the irony of that is yes and then they uh would immediately go to gay spaces and flock with their, you know, fit, young, you know, beautiful compatriots and shun anybody. But they would also be like, sister, I just saw this total queen of the night. Sure. To their other hot skinny friends. Yes, they would. I get it. But also, there's no gay guys in fried green tomatoes because this movie, but.

Lesbians. Hollywood says you cannot have both in the same movie. Hollywood and Survivor, Shake Hands, can't have lesbians and gay men on the same season. The first elimination was a lesbian on a tribe with a gay guy, and it's just like, are we going to be, are we going to be an alliance? No. But they initially were like, Alliance, us too. And then immediately, the guy, the gay guy was like, or these two straight guys want to be my friend. I think I'm going to be friends with these two straight guys.

And it's just like, God damn it. This is going to be a very booger-ass season of Survivor. I can already feel it. However, the premiere gave us full barf on television for the first time in years. It's been a while, right? It's been a while. I was not prepared for the barf. Blow such chunks on television in a long time.

It was wild. It was. It was full on SNL. Somebody has a tube up their wrist. like thing because she's like trying to like put her hand it was hope davis god of carnage it was it was it was i'll also say i'm still not finished with episode two because i started watching it way too late and i was like i can't make it through this 90 minute episode but so this person i'm talking about may have been eliminated i hope not i relate so goddamn hard to the 40-something

Marvel film producer who's on the tribe with 20-somethings, who's like, I'm trying, man, but like, they're all so fucking weird. And it's just like, yeah, dude, where he's like, I've never, never heard the word fire used more often to not mean, like, actual fire. And then there's a super cut of everybody, like, that's so fire. Oh, my God, this is great. This sand is fire. Like, this, you know, your necklace is fire. And I immediately, and then I had the thought of.

of it's just a reprise of like fucking Rudy in the first season being like all these kids say awesome all the time. Everything is awesome. And I'm like, oh God, this is the new version of this. I'm Rudy. I'm like the old man demographic being like these fucking kids on this fucking tribe, this poor man who's like my age and who is like coded as like unc coded. And it's just like, oh, God, no. Oh, this poor man could not relate to him harder, could not be rooting for him more so best of luck i don't have a person i relate to yet on this season i do have a survivor boyfriend this season which one um oh immediately i was like leo pointing at the tv i was like him which one joan oh that makes a ton of sense yeah it makes total sense makes all the sense

um yep yep yep yep used people um kathy bates is good in this movie it feels she's swimming up stream why is she in this role she's an Oscar winner at this point like fried green tomatoes you get it like that's almost like a star role even though it's at the end of the day not her story

but she has that whole section of the movie to herself though like you get it like that makes a lot of sense it's also weird that Jessica Tandy does this movie after fried green tomatoes because fried green tomatoes she is nominated two years after

she wins for driving Miss Daisy. It's like the quintessential Halo nomination. Not to say she's bad in the movie, but like... Jessica Tandy, giving absolutely zero fucks about her accent in this movie is so funny. Or she's just like, I'm just going to talk like I talk. And, you know, yeah, I'll be playing like a Jewish mother, but like I'm not going to sound like it. And that'll be fine. Give me another shell necklace.

I love Jessica Tandy. I have not seen driving Miss Daisy since I was a child. I think that helps me continue to love her. I also love her story, too. There's nothing about, like, making driving Miss Daisy that would make me not like Jessica Tandy. You know what I mean? It's like...

It's just you're sitting there and... One, you know, Amy. Yeah. It's... I also still love her story. It had to have gone into, like, her Oscar run, too, She was the original Blanche Devereaux on Broadway Gets replaced by Vivian Lee

And it's like Vivian Lee You know who was famous You know The like legendary performance Have Gone With the Wind Well guess what She just gave another fucking legendary performance

So it's like Jessica Tandy was in the shadow So like that's the type of thing That always makes me root for an actress But yeah Like even her I'm like Why did she accept this role?

She has an Oscar, and there's not enough of her character in this movie, even though, you know, I will always watch that movie. That's her and Sylvia Sidney. Spoiler alert, like, she's in the last two years of her life at this point. Like, she's, you know, good for her for continuing to work. Is this her final movie? Give me a second. Give me a second. No, she's in Nobody's Fool, which was ended up released posthuously.

Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, I want to go back and watch that. And she's also in a film called Camilla. That's the Bridget Fonda. Oh, she's naked in that. She goes like skinny dipping in the ocean. That's the Deepa Mata movie with her and Bridget Fonda.

Yes, you said. Yeah, there needs to be more of her in Sylvia Sidney. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Love the two of them. Sylvia Sidney would go on to be in like Mars attacks as the only other movie after that. so yeah yeah interesting um the upward trajectories for marcia deepa meta we should say is the director of from canada water so we should uh so that's the one of our namesakes that's our through

line for that um yeah i mean i like the cast i think the cast would have like drawn me to this movie even though at the time i probably wouldn't have known to be excited about marcia gay Harden because it like truly was not until almost the point where she won her Oscar, where I sort of like started recognizing her as being in things. I feel like she was in Flubber, which was probably like the first thing I remember recognizing her by name in, although obviously she's in the first Wives Club playing the shrink. Wow, she's also in the Spitfire Grill. Maybe I should watch the Spitfire Grill and Unhook the Stars. We'll do the Spitfire Grill eventually, because the Spitfire Grill, I believe, at the time, was the largest Sundance by, and then had all of this buzz because of the Sundance reception and the, you know, the... We should time it for Sundance this year, then. We should do it for Sundance time. Oh, that's a good idea. Ellen Burstyn, Will Patton.

Yeah. And then on hook the Stars is General Rowlands, right? Who got like a... Marissa Tome. Yeah, and one of them got... a SAG nomination. Perhaps both of them did. Jenna Rollins, Marissa Tomey, Gerard Depardue.

Oh, no. Jake Lloyd. Oh, gosh. Bridget Wilson. Bridget Wilson pre-Sampras. What? Moira Kelly. All right, anyway, back to use people.

Sorry, we have to keep like drawing ourselves back to use people. It's fine. Typical gay guy fashion. We have not talked about the man in this movie, and that's Marcello Mostroyani. So here's the thing. Actually, you go first. And then I'll time it. Well, I was going to say, like, he's a huge part of this whole, like, Oscar pedigree of this movie.

Three-time Oscar nominee, yep. Three-time Oscar nominee, which, like, Divorce Italian Style is the one that we talk about the most, but also nominated for a special day and Dark Eyes. Dark Eyes, I think, is the one that got him his second-can best director. Who directed Dark Eyes? I don't remember. Hold on. Let me look up Marcella, Maustrani.

The thing about me and Marcella Maustrani. guys might have won the international feature Oscar. And I'll admit, I've not seen any of his Oscar-nominated roles. I have only seen him in maybe this and prediporte. What else might I have seen him in? Have you seen any of the Lena Wart Reulers? I don't think so. Is that Divorce Italian Style?

No. Who directed Divorce Italian Style? Gertro Germy First of all, Wikipedia, get your shit together with all these titles in their original Italian. This is not helping me

whatsoever. I have never been particularly taken with Marcello Mostrani. You've never seen the Felini's? No, and this is probably the problem, is that I've only ever seen him in his more recent stuff or whatever.

Wait, he wasn't in Lina Wirtmuller movies. Well, then you're leading me astray. Sorry. Yeah, he's in the Felini's. He's in La Dolce Vita, an eight and a half. The Lena word minerals are Shankalo Giannini. Stupid me, conflating them.

And then, so, marriage Italian style, divorce Italian style, those are both to Sika? Marriage Italian style certainly is. I don't know. I'm talking fully out of my butt about all of this stuff because I really don't know any of this stuff. I imagine Sophia Loren is in most of these other movies, and I'm sure it's like...

I do not believe she's in Dark Eyes or a special day. Well, then... She's making less movies at that point. Yeah. The point is, this is like a whole, like, wing of film history that I am shamefully, you know, ignorant of. You should watch the Falini's. If you haven't seen eight and a half,

if you haven't seen La Dolce Vita, those are those are he's also got like a hundred movies like genuinely um just made like four movies a year for like 35 40 years um no divorce italian style is pietro jeremy so you know what i don't know man i don't know so mastroyani will talk about those globes but he's nominated at the globes and lead actor i think I mean, it's his stature, certainly, that would have gotten him in the lead actor. He is not in this movie that much. No, no, certainly not, like, on a nomination level.

So, he's nominated up against, who wins it that year? Is it Tim Robbins? Tim Robbins is double nominated, but wins for the player. For the player. He's nominated for Bob Roberts. Billy Crystal's nominated for Mr. Saturday Night. Nicholas Cage is nominated for Honeymoon in Vegas. So like 1992, I mean, fucking nominate-

Not a banger. Right, but, hold on, let me look this up. None of the lead musical or comedy Globe nominees of this year were Oscar nominated. Sure. That tells you kind of thing. And, like, they're not going to nominate Mike Myers for Wayne's. world even though I would be fine

with that. You know what I mean? Nominated Broadway. Dana Carvey's very solidly supporting of the two of them. Like that is Wayne is heading so much more of that movie. He's got the romantic subplot. Yeah. There's a whole lot more Wayne than there is a guy. Gary's back

me up on this. How about Joe Pesci for my cousin Vinnie? How about that? Yeah, that's weird. That's weird. Deep weird. Given the Oscar trajectory later on of Marissa Tomei, why is not Joe Pesci nominated for the Golden Globe? That to me, suspect. That's suspect.

Nominating Mastroyani for the lead of this movie is like nominating Bill Nunn or Harry Keitel as a lead of sister act. Like, that's crazy. Why not you're talking about? Why not Wesley Snipes for White Men Can't Jump? Why not Woody Harrelson for white men can't jump? Why not? I'm just going to go down the list, folks. I'm just going to do it.

Why not? I know why not Christian Baleford Newsies. But you know what? He sang and he danced, folks. He sang and he danced. Bruce Willis and Death Becomes Her is very funny. Bruce Willis and Death Becomes Her is very funny. Probably supporting, but you know what?

If you're going to nominate Marcella Maasurer. He's in more of that movie than Maastroyani's in this movie. Very true. Very true. I wouldn't have done it, but Brendan Fraser and Encino. man would have at least made the whale win much later make more sense in retrospect um you said it bill none and sister act you made a very compelling case for nominating bill none for sister act for lead actor no i was not being seen i was saying i'm joking i'm joking um eddie murphy for boomerang

a very successful movie you know what i mean tom hanks is very much a supporting actor in a league of their own, but I'd have supported them fudging it and nominating him for lead actor for a league of their own, right? Yeah. What else do we have here? Nobody in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, nobody in Enchanted April. Do, do, do, do. Not even Robin Williams for toys, I think tells you how hated toys was.

Yeah, that's true. Boy, that is true. What else? What else? Robert Redford for sneakers. What the fuck, folks? What the fuck? That is...

No one loves sneakers as much as you, but I do think that... It's a comedy thriller, folks. That is a rare genre blend, and you know what? It would have worked. So rare. I am not the only person who loves sneakers. Everybody loves sneakers. When he died, most of the remembrances that I saw included sneakers.

And rightly so. Do not pull that. Honestly, forgiven how successful the movie was, I could have seen Emilio Estevez nominated for The Mighty Ducks. I don't think I would have done it. I don't think adults took that seriously enough to even give it a golden globe. That's fair. But like, weirder things maybe have happened at the golden globes.

How about your friend, Larry Drake, and Dr. Giggles? How about that? How about that, folks? Yeah, that definitely is in the realm of reality. If I'm being serious, honestly, if I'm being serious, Joe Pesci and my cousin Vinnie, Wesley Snipes, and White Men, Can't Jump. Absolutely should have been nominated that year for Golden Games. And that's all there's too. They nominate Wesley Snipes for two Wong Fu. Yeah. Which he's, you know, deserves, highly

deserves. Deserves fully. But yeah. Yeah. Anyway. White Man Can't Chop be even bigger hit. Let's talk about the actress category at this Globes, though. Of which Shirley McLean is nominated against Gina Davis, a league of their own. Whoopi Goldberg, Sister Act. We've done a great episode on that. Merrill Streep and Death becomes her, and the winner, Miranda Richardson in the Laugh riot Enchanted April. Enchanted April is one of those like light comedies, light dromedies that gets elevated over these other more broad comedies because, A, it's English and B, it's costumes. I don't not like Enchanted April. I was glad that Joan Plow Wright got a supporting actress nomination. Miranda Richardson had a very, she's so hot right now moment where she was nominated.

for Enchanted April at the Globes and for damage in supporting actress. She's also in the- Which probably goes towards her winning this globe? Well, 100%. Like there's, there, those are all the reasons that, and also she's also in the crying game this year. Like, she's like, banger year. That is why she won.

I would say, first of all, justice for Goldie Hawn. I know. Like, Merrill's great and death becomes her, but, like, they don't work without each other. Like, you have to nominate them both. And then, okay, who do you vote for the win? Whoopi or Gina? Oh, whoopee.

Whoopi. I mean, I love a league of their own. I love Gina Davis. I think that's a very deserving performance for this nomination. But, like, it's whoop. Whoopi's putting in the work. Yeah. No, it's true.

You're absolutely right. Also, okay, Goldie Hawn getting snubbed twice because she's also in House sitter this year. nominate her twice. Nominate House sitter. House Sitter. Now we're cooking with gas. House Sitter's a great movie. Steve Martin and House Sitter, where's that nomination and Best Actor? I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Toro laura Laura Laura. It's a good movie. It's a genuinely good movie. Damn it. 1992 was Hoppin. These were all like Video Factory classics for me. Like all of those movies.

Multiple rentals from Video Factory for Sister Act, for House Sitter, for a League of Their Own, for Death Becomes Her. all of them didn't rent used people once did not rent enchanted april even a one time just saying this movie does not appeal to gay children doesn't nor to straight ones honestly it should it does not appeal to children of any kind the most best actress movie yeah we have ever done yes yes so shirley mclean is never nominated after her win never that's i know that that is true that is not a thing that i didn't know and yet every time i'm reminded of it it seems wrong because right she's in so many things after that after that you would she's also never nominated in supporting ever right right but she is one of those random people who were nominated for a documentary that's true right uh uh the other half of the sky

Other half of the sky. Thank you, 1975. She's also somebody who we have now done seven episodes on. And blew right past her six-timers quiz when we did Madame Suzatska, probably because we were so happy that Taylor Cole was here to talk to us. So, as promised, the next time we did Shirley MacLean, which is now, we are doing a Shirley Maclean six-timers quiz. Chris, I will be quizzing you on the following seven films.

Even though it is a six, it's still a six-timers quiz, because the name is trademarked, and we can't change it. So, are you ready to have a pen and paper, maybe, or something to keep track of these seven films? So we are going to be covering the Evening Star, which was The Evening Star, and then The Secret Life of Walter Middy, both in our first 100 episodes, as was in her shoes. then we did Rumor Has It Rob Reiner's rumor has it Speaking of the graduate Speaking of the graduate

Bernie Episode 301 Bernie And then Our sixth film Madam Susatska And our seventh film Used People

So the following questions The answers will be One or more Of those seven movies Are you ready to roll? Yes All right Which of those

was the longest. The evening star. No. In her shoes? In her shoes, 130 perfect minutes in her shoes. Which was the shortest? Bernie. No.

Rumor has it? Rumor has it, 96 minutes. I think there were three movies that were sort of like... 96 very imperfect minutes. 96 very imperfect minutes. Bernie was 99, so it was right around there. Biggest box office domestic. Yes, indeed.

You're right to make that statement. Walter Middy. Walter Middy, $58.2 million, domestic box office. Lowest box office. Susatka. Madam Susatka, 3.5 million. Used people? Do you remember?

18 million. Yep, 17.9 million. Miraculously. Yes. Which three of these seven movies were directed by people who have never directed a Best Picture nominee? Oh. Meaning four of them have been. Have.

Used people? Yes. Walter Middy. Ben Stiller. And the Evening Star? The Evening Star directed by Robert Harling. Not, yes, correct. Okay.

Which one of them. these movies was directed by somebody who's directed a best picture winner. Rumor has it is Rob Reiner, but has Rob Reiner? No. I guess it's rumor has it. It's not rumor has it. Rob Reiner

has never directed a Best Picture winner. That's what I thought um Curtis Hanson it's Curtis Hanson it's link later Bevan Kidron Susatsk is it Susatska? Madam Susotska directed by John Schlesinger directed that

Who directed Midnight Cowboy Yes did he went best director as well for that I believe he did sure did Which of these movies has the same cinematographer as the piano Hmm I'm trying to remember who that is Because that's

Is it the evening star It is not the evening star Can I get the name of the cinematographer Stuart Dryberg Susatka Nope It is the secret life of Walter Middy Okay

Which of these movies has the same composer as a river runs through it, Nell, and Crash. Crash. Crash. Which is Gregson Williams? Nope. Is this in her shoes? It is in her shoes. The composer is Mark Isham.

Ah. Which three of these movies were released on Christmas Day? Rumor has it. Yes. Evening Star. And Susatka? No. Walter Middy.

Walter Middy. Yes. Susatka, there was another one. Oh, U.S. People was released in mid-December. But, all right. Which movie was released in Taurus season? Bernie. Bernie, April 27th.

Which two of these movies are either written or co-written by their directors? Bernie. Yep, Richard Linkletter. And Walter Middy? Nope. Evening Star. Evening Star. What did we say?

His name was Robert Harling. Robert Harling. Author of Steel Magnolius. Yes. Steve Conrad wrote the Walter Middy screenplay. where were we Written or co-room by the directors Which is the only one of these movies

That comes from an original screenplay Hmm Technically Bernie But like rumor has it is Translated I'm pretty sure Oh okay

Then I guess rumor has it. But the rumor has it is like adapted characters. Yes, but like, but not from a from a work previously published. Right. Yeah. Which movie played the South by Southwest Film Festival? Bernie. Bernie. The old Richard Linklater, Texas connection. Which two movies played at the Toronto International Film Festival? In her shoes. Yes. And Madam Susatka. Yes, very good. Which

two movies do not feature Shirley MacLean on the poster. The poster as presented on IMDB. Yes, Secret Life of Walter Middy. And... Uh, uh, in her shoes. In her shoes. It's just Tony Collette and Cameron Diaz. Which of these movies featured the tagline, a story about friends, family, and other natural disasters? Uh, rumor has it? Use people.

No. The Evening Star. The Evening Star, yes. Which of these titles has the largest possible Scrabble score? I mean, based off of the length, I want to say, the Secret Life of Walter Middy, but it has to be Madam Susatka. It is, in fact, the Secret Life of Walter Middy. I kind of head faked you there. But Madam Susatka, for having far fewer letters, does come close.

Walter Middy adds up to 45, Madam Susatzka, 33. So it's just a numbers game. It's just a letters game. It's fine. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include dysfunctional family, cigarette smoking, and extramarital affair? Evening Star. No, not the Evening Star. Rumor has it.

Rumor has it. Yes. Which movie has IMDB keywords? that include Generation Gap, Culture Clash, and Aging. Evening Star. No. Rumor has it. No.

Okay. Use people. Nope. Secret Life of Walter Middy? Nope. It's Madam Susatska. Great. Which movie got a Blockbuster Award nomination?

Evening Star. Evening Star for Juliette Lewis. Yes, very good. Which two of these movies was a National Board of Review top 10 selection? Secret Life of Walter Middy Yes, and in fact I think it's just that one I poured it over two from a previous question Yes

Which one of these movies was an NBR top ten independent film selection Bernie Bernie, yes For which two movies was Shirley MacLean specifically An AARP Movies for Grownups Nominy Bernie Yes And rumor has it

No In her shoes Yes For which three movies Was Shirley specifically a Golden Globe nominee In her shoes Yes Susatska

Yep And use people Yes very good Which two movies were Golden Globes Were Golden Globe nominees But not for Shirley Hmm Bernie.

Yep, Project Black. And The Secret Life of Walter Middy. No. The Evening Star. The Evening Star for Marion Ross, supporting actress. That's right. That's right. Sometimes the globes are good.

Yep. Which three films feature stars of Titanic. Use people. Yes. Um Oh, wow. Evening Star. Bill Paxton, yes.

Paxton. Yep. And there's not a lot of people in Walter Middy. In her shoes, doesn't make a ton of sense. I don't think it's Bernie. It's got to be a supporting, person that I'm not remembering.

So what's the most likely? I remember next to nothing about Secret Life of Walter Middy, so I'll say Secret Life of Walter Middy. No, but that's a good guess. It's a little bit of a trick question. Because... How could Titanic be a trick question? I'm saying which three films feature stars of Titanic, not which three stars of Titanic

because it's only two stars of Titanic across three films. Sure. I was just thinking of like the casts in all of the films. You definitely don't remember this person being in this movie. Oh, Kathy Bates is in Rumor Havs.

Yes, there you go. Yes. Which two films feature stars of the holiday? Nancy Myers is the holiday. Uh, Titanic. Bernie. Yes, Jack Black. Do we have Eli Wallach in one of these?

In her shoes, Camptias. Eli Wallach would have been great in the Marcella Mastriani role. I'm saying, you could have gotten an actual Jewish person in this movie. It would have been great. Which two films would have featured stars of the American remake of Tony Erdman? I'm trying to... The most famous version that... The most famous version that almost existed.

Evening Star has Jack Nicholson. Yes. And then Walter Middy has Kristen Whig. Yes. I mentioned Walter Middy all this time and did not remember that Kristen Wigg is the would-be love interest of that movie. Which of these films did the Observer's Rex Reed call an anemic milkshake that turns into buttermilk before you can find the exit door?

Walter Middy. No. There's no clues in that statement that tells you what it's about, but I just wanted to, wanted to convey that. In her shoes? Nope. One more guess, and then I'll tell you. Evening Star. The rumor has it.

I mean, that's actually kind to say to that movie. Yes. About which of these films did Vulture's own Bilga Iberi say was a perfect nothing of a movie. Walter Middy? Walter Middy, the secret life of Walter Middy. He's not wrong. About which of these films did Roger Ebert say, quote, all of these people live together in the manner of 1950s sitcoms, which means they constantly walk in and out of each other's houses and throw up the windows to carry on conversations with people in the yard.

I don't know about you, but if I had to live in a neighborhood, where all of my friends and neighbors were hanging out in the kitchen, drinking my coffee and offering free advice and one-liners all day, I'd move, let them go to Starbucks. The evening star. The evening star. Very good. About which of these films did Roger Ebert say,

There are moments of great subtlety and tenderness, and others where they hire the ugliest woman they can find to make faces so a little boy will cry at a wedding. Used people. people. Very good. Yes. Well done with the Shirley MacLean quiz. That, I thought, was a very funny scene where the little kid looks at the old lady with the awful teeth and starts crying. And then Shirley McLean eventually is just like, you have given me the evil eye all day. And then she just goes, she spits in her. She just goes, too, too, too. And then Jessica

Tandy, like, across the room just like chimes in and just like, two, two, too. That's great. I loved it. Um, going through my notes. Go through your notes. Um, Shirley's hair change is worse than it was. We're supposed to believe that it's better. Oh, not only is this the most best actress movie because of the actresses in it. Yes. The way the actresses dress themselves. She also references Simone Signore, Ray, so there is also Best Actress Trivia in the film.

This is a secretly, like, actress gay movie. Like, actress gays should at least, if not see this movie, at least, at least, understand, know about it, find an image from this movie, post it as a response to somebody, something, you know what I mean? Marcia really does look amazing, dressed as Barbara. I was just about to say, particularly as Barbara. Like, that is, unafraid to reference or not reference, say that. Say that about that.

If you are dressing up as a best actress winner from the night they won their Oscar. That's, what fills out that top five? Gwyneth. Honestly, underrated Sissy SpaceX. She's in like a jumpsuit and looks fabulous and comfortable. I think, Gwyneth, I think, Cher, obviously. Those are kind of the obvious is. Share is the number one.

Let's be real. Yeah. Julia might be like a number two or three just so that you could have the wig to have the giant, like, mound that she has. I often think of Jody Foster. for Silence of the Lambs with, like, the gloves. I don't know if I like it so much as it's very striking. It's very, I was trying to think of, like,

in the last 20 years, who had iconic, like, will be remembered, Oscar-winning outfits? Honestly, bad Oscar win, but Merrill, the gold. Okay, yeah. Yes, that's true. She looked amazing. But that even is like 14 years ago, right? Yeah.

Like, it just feels like, I don't want to be one of those people being like, everybody's so safe nowadays. But, like, I really don't know. And maybe it's a thing that, like, it will come with a little bit of distance. But, like, a lot of people who, like, looked great. I think Cape Blanchettos looks great. Halliberry, yes. But again, 2001, it's so long ago. Yeah.

Like a lot of people who like Michelle Yo looked great, but like not particularly like memorable. People liked Mikey Madison's dress. Yeah, but like I close my eyes. I can't picture it in my head. Do you know what I mean? It's like, again, not knocking these outfits. They are not ugly. They are not bad.

But it's like certainly nothing that you could like sketch from memory. Do you know what I mean? Like you could with Cher or with Gwyneth Paltrow. or with Barbara's trisand. And, like, Emma Stones. Emma Stones may be a little bit more memorable for the second one because of the whole thing where, like, it broke. Mm-hmm.

Or, like, Jennifer Lawrence, you remember the shot of her, like, down on the stairs, so you remember that train. But, like, you probably wouldn't otherwise. Jessica Chastain, you don't really remember. Renee Zellweger, you remember the speech more than the dress. The Barbara outfit is so specific and so great because Barbara, of course, didn't realize that it was sheer and that you... Right. This is like that era, the 60s scandalous, you know, that she looked naked.

She did not look naked, you know, like... Yeah. No, it's just like... Again, not dragging anybody, just saying we are maybe in an era of maybe we're just not shockable anymore, or maybe we're just, it's harder to impress. Maybe the bar is just so high. And so most people are content to just like be a little more conservative. Well, not fuck it up. You know what I mean? We're in the era of don't fuck it up. And I will say, this is not, this is not opening wounds. This is not to dog Mikey Madison. But if DeMei had won, DeMee would have turned that around because she looked... Yeah, she looked great. That dress was amazing.

She looked great. What a bummer. Yeah. Yeah. All right. She looked amazing, but like, is that like I could dress up like that and you know what I am? Maybe not. Right, right.

Maybe that would change if she had won. And sometimes talk to me in 10 years. You know what I mean? Like sometimes you don't really know. Anyway, what else to say about this? We can move on to the IMDB game. We could. We've sort of exhausted all on my notes, so we could move on to the IMDB game.

We could see boop and move on to the IMDB game. All right, the IMDB game, folks, every week we end our episodes with a round of the IMDB game, wherein we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they're most known for, If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. You can tell, I still have remnants of my cold, because I have to keep taking a breath. All right, that's the NBA game. What do you want to do? Do you want to give or guess first?

I'll give first. So, how did I arrive? Oh, no. before we do IMDB game this is a good little segue we have to talk about Mr. Todd Graff Oh yes Yes Our screenwriter Todd Graff

Todd Graff Um Camp is very important to me Is Camp very important to you? Extremely Is Camp good No I don't know if I would say no

But it's not like a classic of the form Right I say Camp is a I don't think I would say Camp is a bad movie Go off Go off Queen

Say your piece Camp has issues But Camp in what Camp is supposed to do How Camp is supposed to function It's untouchable Here's what I will say I think Camp has moments Of true emotional resonance

I think Camp has A couple Really great performance performances. I think Robin DeHesus and Anna Kendrick are really, really fantastic in the movies. I think it has some really great musical numbers. I think it has some great recreations of classic musical numbers that exist in my head almost alongside their originals. Like when I think of turkey lurky time, I think of this turkey lurky time. Like, do you know what I mean? When I think of the ladies who lunch, I think of a lot of versions, but, like, this is one of them.

You know what I mean? So, and I also feel like this is a movie, talk about a movie that knows its audience. This is a movie whose jokes about theater and theater people are fucking on point. They're really, really good. There's a hyper specificity to this movie that really works for it. Now, on top of those really great and special performances that you've mentioned, there's also maybe a few that are not so great. Well, of course, there's a lot of amateurish kind of stuff. But, like, you compare this thing to theater camp, which I think is so overly determined to be the kind of iconic that camp is, and there really is no comparison.

Right, right. And, like, it is such a, I think, formative movie. It's not a movie we really talk about when we talk about the rebirth of the movie musical, but I do think it belongs in that conversation, especially for the early 2000s. You know, there's always talk of Chicago. And then I think, you know, maybe the B, T, Chicago and Moulin Rouge, and then the B tier is, like, Hed Vig. But, like, you should include camp in this because it talks about theater culture and I think

a generation of, like, theater kids. Yeah. And, like, there's a lot that may be something like. like theater camp wouldn't exist if camp didn't. But, like, glee would not exist if camp didn't exist. Right, right. And I mean, it's got a cameo by Steven Sondheim. So, truly, can't fuck with it.

Anyway, I say all this because my IMDB game selection, who we've somehow never done before, is Anna Kendrick, who is so incredibly good in camp. One voice performance, I should say. Anna Kendrick, I feel like, popped off at exactly the end of the, it was the right time culturally for someone like her. Yes. And then almost overnight, everyone decided she was annoying. But I do think Anna Kendrick...

But she's continued to thrive even past the point where everybody decided she was annoying. Like, I give her credit for that. She has found her way to continue. And I think she is also hyper aware of it and, like, finds a way to kind of make it funny. I think also, I think she's more charming and funnier than people give her credit for. I don't think she's the most charming and the most, like, off-the-cuff funny, but I do feel like she's better than she is given credit for. I think a lot of people want to hate her more than is warranted. And I think she'll probably also have another, like, no one else could have played that, but her performance in her, that will be great.

Absolutely. I think she'll probably be a more interesting performer as she ages when she can be comfortably a 40s and 50s and 60s character actress and not a leading lady. The part of me that loves Anna Kendrick is the part of me that loves Susie Toot. And I understand that, like, a lot of people don't understand that. Oh, I don't like that comparison. I don't like that. For who? I don't like that.

Who does that speak ill of? That speaks ill of Anna-Cath. I don't think that's the reaction right there is why I was why the comparison works. That reaction right there. Because that's the reaction that a lot of people have to Anna Kendrick. That's not fair to Anna Kendrick. That's exactly why it works, because a lot of people have that very reaction to Anna Kendrick. It's a good comparison.

Gary's back me up here. Anna Kendrick. Yes. Anna Kendrick. One voice performance. Is the voice performance trolls? It is trolls, yes. Pitch perfect.

Speaking of drag race, Princess Poppy from trolls. Sorry, what are your other ones? Pitch perfect. Pitch perfect, yes. Up in the air. Up in the air, you are three for three. I don't think either of us has had a perfect score in years. No, it's been a minute.

It's been a minute. I shouldn't have said it. because this is what always happens. I get three and I'm like, ooh, I could get a perfect score. Yes. Yes. I don't.

There's things like Scott Pilgrim. Not going to jump to that. It could be pitch perfect too. It could be something that she's in a supporting role. She works a lot. She does work a lot. It could be that weird.

thing she made with Miles Teller that I don't know the title of which probably tells you it's not it um didn't she do a movie with Tracy Morgan um Maybe uh

or not it um it might be Craig Robinson She did a lot of movies She's worked a lot She works a lot Pitch Perfect 2 made so much money

Sure did That's why I'm going to guess Pitch Perfect 2 Incorrect Not pitch perfect 2 This is what always happens I'm going to say Scott Pilgrim It isn't but that's a very good guess

All right People love Scott Pilgrim You get your year Your year is 2023 It's a very recent. Yes. Oh, God.

It's a simple favor. It's not a simple favor. Simple favor is earlier than 2023. People love a simple favor. I don't. Simple favor is like 2019, 2018. Oh, really? Okay.

So, 2023. Yeah. What was she up to? I feel like this is something I liked. I think so. I think I liked it more than you, but I think we both liked it. it's not a comedy or it is a comedy

what did she do recently what was the thriller she was in she was in like a I might need more hints. I might need more hints than this. It's 2023, but I'm pretty sure it, like, released in 2024. Because it was a 2023 festival movie? Yes.

This isn't the... Because she produced this movie. I saw it, but she's, like, on the run from a... an abusive spouse. Oh, you're thinking of Alice Darling. It's not that. No, that was, I think, the year before this. It was.

Did we see this at TIF? Oh, it's Woman of the Hour. It's Woman of the Hour. Woman of the Hour. Yes. Her directorial debut. She's directing, but she's credited in the IMDB game as her character's name. So I do not feel like I needed to tell you that it was a non-acting credit.

Yeah, I should have gotten that faster. I'm surprised it made it into her top four this soon. Because Netflix also doesn't show up. I will say, though, for it being a Netflix movie, I was pleased with how many people seemed to watch it. And I think, I mean, I'm like that movie's biggest fan of people that I know, but I think other people liked it pretty well. I think it's fantastic.

I think it's really, really good. Anyway, who do you have for me? Well, I thought about Marcia Gay Harden as the non-Auster, nominated star of this movie, and what did she win her Oscar for? But Pollock, starring and directed by Mr. Amy Madigan himself. Have we never done Ed Harris? We've done Ed Harris in like double-digit episodes. Okay, okay, okay. Apollo 13. Correct. The Truman Show. Correct. Given that Woman of the Hour was on Anna Kendrix, Pollock is not out of the question because it's an acting and directing thing.

I guess that would make Appaloosa similar. But I'm not ready to say either one of those two yet. There's also the right stuff. But I'm going to say that there's probably a little bit more of a recency bias for that. A beautiful mind. incorrect okay um he's another person who's just in so many things even recently he's in a lot of stuff like when you go through it it's like oh yeah he was in that he was in that he was in love lies bleeding he was in um a lot of things um all right pollock

pollock is correct yes okay all right so one more Um, the hours. The hours is incorrect. Okay. All right. What's my year? Your year is 2008. Is it Appaloosa?

It's Appaloosa because I was banking on you, not even remembering Appalusa. He directed that, right? Let alone that he directed Appalusa. Yep, yep, yep. So, yeah, so directing plus acting, we are learning, is a boon for the. IMDB game. Filing that one away. Wow, we both did actor directors for our IMDB game.

Very interesting. All right. Well done. Us. Used people. That's our episode. I like when we do these entirely forgotten movies. Especially when we sandwich them between big movies. The duality of this

head Oscar buzz. The duality of this podcast. Yes. The duality of Gary. That's our The duality of Gary That's our fake Whenever people are like Invent a movie

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