This Had Oscar Buzz - 364 – Bones and All

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

With Halloween this week and Luca Guadagnino’s After the Hunt now in theatres, what better time to discuss the BONES! The 2022 fall festival season felt like the first real movie moment post-COVID and anticipation was high for Guadagnino reuniting with his Call Me By Your Name star, Timothee Chalamet. Bones and All was a tale of young love … Continue reading "364 – Bones and All"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Maryland Hack and friends. Dick Pooh. I had permission to murder into me. You want it darker. We kill the flame. You don't think I'm a bad person.

All I think is that I love you. You look like the kind. that's convinced himself he's got this under his time. He may need. But you pull him on the thread and hovering. My lord. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's staring with Spielberg faces

at a night's sky full of lens flares. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my favorite braider of hair, Chris File.

Hello, Chris. I almost didn't make my flight. They made me take my giant braid of hair out of my carry-on. They had to scan it. Did you know you have to check your giant braid of hair? This used to be a country. I swear to God. No more.

Apparently, it's like some type of, you know, they're like e-cigarettes. They could burst into flames at any time. At any moment, yes. You know that smells crazy in there. That's all I got to say about that giant braid of hair. You know that smells crazy. How many different plastic bags does he keep having to trade out the braid of hair for? Going to various Ikea's to find the like extra, extra, extra large bags?

Just a giant IKEA bag full of braided hair. Sometimes you break out the braid of hair when you're, you know, maybe you've had a glass of wine and, you know, you attach your giant braid of hair. and you say, these have always brought me luck. You know what Cannibal Navi do? They have sex with their giant braid of hair. No. Oh, see, now that's going to gross me out next time I see Avatar. It's just imagining somebody coupling with the giant braid of bones in all hair.

And one of them is the pedophile from family guy. No. Wait, who's the pedophile from family guy? Mark Rylands in this movie. Wait, no, but like, I don't know the family guy reference. Oh, you don't know the, like, whistle voice, like, uh, oh, okay, we may have to take a pause so that I can send this to you. Oh, no. I can't believe you've never seen this before.

Did that exist before Bones and All, or did they make it as a reference to Bones and All? Oh, God. Oh, no. Right, Mr. Herbert the Pervert. I can't. Are you sending this to the chat? Yes, I will send you something to the chat so that you can see, so you can understand my reference. Okay.

I can't believe you hadn't seen this because, like, I am not the only person saying that Mark Rylance was playing the family guy. And I don't watch Family Guy, but I certainly have seen, like, enough, like, secondhand, like, family guy things. So, like, I know certain things. Oh, God. Yeah, like, I thought a family guy was, you know, just one of those things everybody gets from osmosis. I don't watch Family Guy, but, like, we know the characters. Your face is telling so much. Oh, no.

The voice is eerily the same. This is the thing. He even does the... Rylens is playing the Family Guy Pedophile this movie. Do you think... That is not a read. I actually love that. this performance.

No, do you, do you think he actually, like, used that as motive, as, like, inspiration for the voice for this character? No, I just think he's, all respect to Rylance, adjacent to that guy. Mark Rylens is a weirdo. I mean, yes, he's definitely a weirdo. I, who typically really don't like Rylance, except for maybe this movie and Bridge of Spies, I think Rylance is pretty tremendous in this movie. See, this is maybe this. The first time I saw this movie, I was like, oh, it's too much.

Oh, it's just entirely too much. This time, I feel like the whole movie sort of comes together better for me this time. The first time I really liked it, and I remember in like the aftermath, sort of like I remembered it increasingly fondly. But I remember, like, the actual experience of watching it. I remember walking out and being like, huh. And this time watching it, I'm just like, oh, like, yeah, this all really, like, meshes together for me. To the point where I started reading a lot of the reviews, which the reviews for this were very mixed. And despite the fact that it has a pretty decent, like, rotten tomatoes percentage or whatever.

So it's like high rotten tomatoes, middling, metacritic. That makes total sense to me, to be honest. Well, and just like, I just remember, this was only a few years ago. So, like, I clearly remember the reviews being mixed and reading them back. And I ended up, like, kind of vehemently disagreeing with some of them reading it this time. And I'm like, I don't remember feeling that way the last time. And I'll be interested to sort of, like, dig into this in this episode to, to sort of feel my way through how this ended up really working for me this time.

Because I imagine you, in mentioning that you really like Rylance, feels like you like his performance maybe better than you like the movie. Oh, no, I'm fully on board for this movie at all time. Oh, good. I loved this movie the first time I saw it. Re-watching it is like, yeah. I do remember you really loving it the first time you saw it now that you mentioned. I'm the freak.

on this movie a little bit. This is probably like a top two Luca Guadino for me. My number one with a bullet, you're not taking it away from me ever, is a bigger splash. Yeah, that's why I feel like I remember us doing a Luca top five before. That's why I didn't want to necessarily do it again. I don't know where I would put it, though. Clearly, like, my faves are the very, like, unsurprising and, like, you know, I'm not getting any esoteric points for having, call me by your name and challengers being my top two Luca movies, but...

I mean, I don't think I've seen Susperia since we did our episode on it. This is our second time we've done Luca for Halloween. For Halloween. For Halloween, listener. Yes. Yeah. I hope everybody's having fun spooky viewings this month. I've kind of, by necessity, you had to opt out of spooky season this year, which I mean.

kind of bummed about it. Yeah, me too. Next, I knew, I, normally what I'll do is I will make a plan and I will make a spreadsheet to watch like 30 scary movies and 31 days and then normally fall short and then feel bad about myself. And this year, I was like, I'm not even going to bother. I know there's no absolutely no way I'm going to be able to do that. So better luck next year, me. I'll do a rewatch of Prince of Darkness and that might be my like big cuhuna for my spooky watching. Sure, sure.

We still have time. We're recording. This is coming the week before. Yeah, but it's not like I have like oodles and oodles of... Right. We're not made of time here. Right. Right.

Yeah, I'll re-watch Prince of Darkness. I've kind of like that in recent years has swiftly moved up the rankings for one of my favorite horror movies. I've opted this year to... Because I do have cable. I'm like the last person in my age range to have cable. So I will do the like flipping through the channels thing and like finding or whatever like scrolling through the guide and just sort of picking up a horror movie where it stands on basic cable. And I will say the basic cable channels have rebounded seemingly this year from poor trends on like it seems like for a while.

basic cable had stopped doing the, like, chock full of scary movies all October thing. And, like, recently, like, AMC's back to doing, like, all day Friday the 13th and, you know, that kind of a thing, which is, like, yeah, that's what you're here for. That's what you need you for, like, sci-fi. Like, sci-fi should be doing, like, a all-day saw marathon or something like that. Like, this is what we need you for. Right. This is how we grew up. This is how, you know, we all got, at least I did.

I watched all the, like, edited for USA television for the Kruger movies. I think, once again, from just my quick perusal, this Halloween season, Peacock once again wins the spooky season streaming wars. They're usually very good. It looks like Peacock has the best, if anybody needs a last-minute spooky movie fix. I did watch I did rewatch What Lies Beneath Thank you, Criterion Channel

So fun Yeah So silly Yes Fifer incredible And I watched the first two Scary movie movies I was like

I'm gonna do all of these this month What a fun alternative I gotta say gang They're not that big And they're really really homophobic the first couple of ones, especially. Check every box. It is that.

And like, there are A plus jokes elsewhere in some of those movies. When the, I know what you did last summer, sequence happens, Shannon Elizabeth running and picking up a boot and says, oh my God, we hit a boot.

A plus joke. A plus joke. They're also just really poorly made. You really don't need revisit them. If you want to watch a Brenda clip, just watch it on YouTube. You don't need to do the whole movie, unfortunately. Also, I'm going to make the unpopular thing. I'm going to say the unpopular thing that nobody really wants to say. I'm saying the unpopular thing and saying that this movie is amazing, so go off. Brent, uh, uh, this is just bones is a good line, but it is not the transcendent line. Cindy, this is a skeleton. It's not, it's in the mean girls realm.

of like, this is now being, you know, shared to the point past which I, you know, it's value lies. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, it's not, it's not that funny. Drag my hints. Drag my hints. It's not that funny. Nor is, I mean, now what the fuck was that is funny. And it's just like, it's so brief.

But it's also like, I don't know, nothing from scary movie. Is that great? Oh my God, we hit a boot. Is that great? Most of it? No. It's just not. It's just not.

And like, there are full, like, lost-to-time jokes. There's a whole, like, they spoof the what's up guys in scary movie, too. They do, like, a Nike commercial. Those movies evolved into the, like, disaster movie, epic movie things. Slop for a reason. Like, they just got much worse. They got much worse. Anyway, I will be very much seeing a scary movie, whatever it is that they say that they're making.

Are they making a new one now? With Regina Hall and Ana Farris. Here's the thing. Regina Hall and Ana Farris are like fantastic. And the fact that they like got a career boosts from Scary Movie, good, great. Yeah. I can co-sign them. I don't need to co-sign Sean Wayans's weird dealing with his.

sexuality and in acting out ways I'll just say that's it for spooky season I guess I'm just trying not to say spooky season I hate spooky season I you know what it's a term

you're trying not to say spooky season I'm trying not to say slop we're figuring it out What's wrong with slop It's just overused Everything is slop now everything somebody doesn't like a slop Oh okay It's just overused I don't like it

I feel like it's become imprecise. Got it. Almost like a slap. Bones and all. Bones. They're so crunchy. This is also like right outside of movies are back again, again, again, where we were, a lot of people, including myself, just wanted to be excited about movies. This is back to your thoughts on the reviews.

and such that people graded on a positive, people were maybe a little more positive than they might have otherwise been. But then you also had a few people who could be, you know, maybe 10% of the critical populace was even harsher. Well, and I also feel like, you know, when you talk about, you know, the mass critical reaction to something, when you talk about a rotten tomato score or even a metacritic score. That number, for any of a billion reasons, is unsatisfying. But the biggest one for me is, within that number of critics on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic or whatever, there are maybe 12 of which I value or I, you know, view as...

Gatekeep them. I'm sorry. Like, it's true. It's true. I care about like if, you know, some rando from like the Austin Daily Chronicles. Well, this is, this is the thing about Rotten Tomatoes. Too many people are there. There are, I mean, and this to me is natural. You come, you, you arrive at the people for whom either your, your tastes dovetail or that they have managed to win your respect enough that like, even

not liking, even reading them in, you know, having an opinion that is completely the opposite of yours is beneficial and instructive to you. And that's not everybody. We've come to this weird moment where like it's become, you're almost forced to to recognize any kind of oppositional opinion because if you don't, you're being sheltered or in your bubble or you don't want to be challenged or whatever. And it's like, no, it's like there's just a threshold of me taking something seriously, that something has to rise above, or else I'm just going to ignore it. You know what I mean? I'm just like, we were not built to confront every opinion, every thought, You know what I mean?

And I think it's the same way in movie reviews. We were not meant to read 80 reviews of a thing. Well, nobody actually reads the full 80 reviews. It's just an aggregator of opinion. But even like, even, I don't know, even the opinion, I feel like, you know, find your squadron of critical voices for whom you, you know, respect and you don't even need to agree with. I mean, like, I love Richard Brody. be so much.

And, like, on the regular, he comes out with something that I'm like, my guy, what? Yeah. Well, there are movie critics who literally, I never like, ever. And I'm always just like, oh, my God. Even when I agree with them. And yet, oh, sometimes especially when I agree with him. But they still have this level. They still have this level of like, well,

But I have to, like, take their opinion seriously because they've earned that through one, you know, degree or another. Yeah. And so with Bones and All, bringing it back to Bones and All, I feel like a higher percentage of those people did not care for Bones and All. Or, like, fundamentally, to my eye, missed something in it. Or, like, did not latch on to something that I latched onto in a way where I'm like, we maybe just had to complete. different experiences of this movie for one reason or another. And I have my suspicions as to what some of those reasons would be. And we can sort of talk through that. Well, and it's kind of like just an extended version of what we do here in terms of, I think this does happen outside of even an

awards ethos. This does happen in a critical community of expectations versus the actual movie you're being served. When people, we were coming out of COVID still, and this was supposed to be hit, Timothy Shalameh reuniting with Luca Guadonino, so people have a certain expectation of what this movie actually is. Even though they know it's a cannibal movie, I think there's a lot to put people off of this movie. It's also not Chalemay's movie.

I mean, he's in a lot of it, but he's not the protagonist. He was a major factor as to whether people, not, I don't think that people approach this movie in bad faith. But I do feel like that there were certain people who had their guard up about, A, Timothy Shalome at this point, or be a post-Susperia Luca Guadonino. And in those two respects, I feel like a lot of people were. coming to the movie with some preconceived notions as to what Luca brings to a horror movie or what Shalame brings to a character. I feel like there was a real, it's weird to say that about an actor who's only been around for, like, less than 10 years. there's already been like multiple hype cycles with Salome, right? And I feel like right now we're back on the upswing after...

White Boy of the Year? I mean, kind of, I feel like last year started it. I feel like a complete unknown being better received than I expected it to be was a good sign. The fact that, like, he came that close to winning an Oscar without people resenting. that eventuality that most people seemed like they would have been more or less good with Chalemay winning an Oscar

was encouraging to me because I feel like in the beautiful boy through Wonka stretch, there was not a lot of

generosity towards Chalame from that particular sliver of the critical community that I'm talking about, the ones whose opinions I really care about. I understand that, like, he has screaming fans everywhere he goes. I understand the Club Sholomei thing. I love, or I understand. Simone, if you're listening. God bless. Stand by and stand, what's the fucking proud boys thing? Oh, Jesus. Stand by and stand tall.

Don't compare Simone to a proud boy. Well, well, well. But regardless, you understand what I'm talking about, right? I know that, like, between the two of us, you're giving me that look, and I understand why, because, like, I am, I'm the bigger Timmy freak of the two of us. You are much, much more skeptical and... Skeptical is too harsh of a word. I think there, you, I think it, in contrast to you, maybe, but, like, in the real world, no, like, I... You put a lot of English on you there. In contrast to you... No, you are saying that you... You are Simone adjacent.

Hey, didn't say that. You said that. You brought that into this conversation. Well, if we're projecting. I'm not projecting a thing. I am just saying you brought that in a... No, I would not consider myself a Chalemay skeptic. I think you think that that is my broad opinion of him

based off of a few select performance... What I think of a few select performances. Of which you are skeptical. No, I mean, I don't think he's, like, had nothing but banger performances, but nobody else, I mean, like, nobody does, you know. No, and I mean, I don't even, I think, I don't even think that necessarily of myself, but I just feel like, in general, I tend to get a lot out of most of his performances, like 90% of them. And the ones that are, like, divisive, I tend to fall on the side of really enjoying them. I think this is one of them. I think not, I don't understand what people hate in his beautiful boy performance.

While at the same time, not like, you know, singing Hosanas to it or anything like that. I think that's where we sort of come around on that. I think he's not good in it, but I wouldn't be like, I hate that performance. Like a lot of people are like, he's the problem with that movie, which I'm like. He's not the, that movie has way bigger problems than him, even though I don't like that performance. We'll have plenty of Shalomay to talk about, but I do feel like, but what I, just sort of talking about the general kind of critical consensus about this movie, I do feel like at this stage in the parabola, people were really not in the mood to sort of pick up what Luca was putting down and particularly with regard to Sholome's character, which you saw a lot of the reviews talking about how. he is sort of an empty vessel in this movie, that he doesn't really give anything, that he and Taylor Russell don't have any chemistry, that he's just sort of... I think all of that is unfair.

Agreed. I agree. And meanwhile, then you get Luca Guadonino, who, I think there was a lot of lingering post-Susperia resentment about how there's no there and he doesn't really have anything to say. and that he is both, I feel like I saw, I read reviews where he got dinged for being too, quote-unquote, pretentious or, you know, to trying to turn this cannibal story into something that's, that's too respectable. And yet, on the other side of it, essentially saying that, like, well, there's no deeper meaning to this, so this movie is bullshit. So it's just like, I think he was just sort of getting battered from both sides. People are always very eager to project onto a movie what they think a director is trying to say. I am accusing myself here even, but I just don't. I think that's a very natural instinct, yes. I think the only movie he's ever made where it's like he is trying to say something or has something to say is a bigger splash.

That's not his MO as a filmmaker. I feel like he is a very experiential filmmaker. I mean, maybe Susperia, he has a little bit to say. Yeah. But it is, often his movies are about placing the audience in the experience of a character going through some type of emotional journey. It's about trying to make you feel that journey. And there's successful versions and there's not successful versions, like queer last year. By the way, if you thought we were done doing Luca Guadonino movies after we finally do,

bones and all. Oh, wait, there's more. And we might. We don't, we don't like to jump the gun here on this show. But wait, wait, there might be more more. There might be more. Yes. What, before we get into the plot description, let's just get it done with towards the top. What were your thoughts on after the hunt? I mean, that is definitely a movie that I'm still sort of settling with. And I'd like to talk to more people about it, if only because I feel like that that's a movie that I feel I could benefit from sort of talking my own way through. But in general, I enjoyed myself. I enjoyed the experience of watching it. I had fun watching Luca sort of churn up the... I don't want to say

Joe don't say cancel culture challenge is essentially like me trying to talk about this movie because I I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot to take away from

and I think Luca gets a lot of enjoyment out of putting this kind of virtue politics through its paces and that's fun to me

I like how little the movie seems to be walking on egg shells. I like how little, and in the few moments that I found myself most dissatisfied with the movie, are the ones where it felt like it was hitting compulsory notes. I think there's the scene, the classroom scene where Julia Roberts is sort of like reading that girl, the riot act, that is, I think, very, very and perhaps purposely paralleled to that scene in Tar, the Juilliard scene in Tar. And that's me, I felt like... See, this is my thing with people talking about or writing about this movie.

I'm like, don't say Tar Challenge because they're such... I get it. There are enough similarities that, like, it makes sense to me. But I just feel like that's one of the few scenes in the movie where I feel like Luke is reacting to unexpected you know critique of the movie or something like that

that or that he's making Julia's character conform to a version of like a type right a person who you know hates safe spaces you know what I mean like I hated I hated

I was so glad that like the movie avoided so many certain things. And then the fact that they had her say safe spaces, I was just like, you don't need to do this. But in general, I thought that was a lot of fun. I thought Julia was fantastic. I thought... She's incredible.

Incredible. Stoolbarg's so fun. The scene where Stoalbard keeps barging into the kitchen and interrupting their little... And I just like, I liked how free he was to allow Julia Roberts and Andrew Garfield and Iowa Debrie's character to all be so... adversarial to each other in their intentions. You know what I mean?

It's like they were all, I don't think you, I think they all have, there's no like accidental victims here, right? Like everything that is done in this movie is done with a purpose. The audience doesn't get any,

what? I'll get into it. I want you to say your piece. I think there's no easy sympathies for the movie, which I like. I think, you know, everybody's mostly wrong. And it allows the movie instead to, you know, sort of let a rip with some of those scenes. And I don't know. I think it's really satisfying.

The form of it is so, like, shaggy. There are those, like, cursory things, like you mentioned. But, like, there's no. easy structure to it which I found so interesting and then you contrast it with this incredibly I would say intentionally pat ending which is if he gets closer to actually saying something it's the way that the movie ends right which I guess the spoiler alert if you haven't seen after the hunt and you want to see it is that like oh everybody basically gets what they want even if they've been punished, you know, like it, nobody actually suffers.

Right, right. See, I do kind of feel like, don't say tar challenge, though. My thing is, this is more a nervous breakdown movie than it is a Me Too movie. It's a nervous breakdown movie set in a Me Too milieu. And this is, like, this is kind of where I formed some of my opinion around. Like, the movie helped me really kind of solidify who Luca Guadonino is, though I would argue it's probably his least successful movie, though I'm in the tank for Luca. I think people are treating it on this past fail of, like, what is it saying or what are its politics when it's not... Does it have good politics?

Could not matter less to me. It's not interested in either of those things. I don't think it really wants to say much rather than just... like play in the sandbox. It is weirdly... Sorry, finish it. No, no, no. I was just like play in the sandbox of being

a certain type of movie in this scenario rather than I want to say something about this. I think it is a movie though. In... I do think it has things to say. I don't think it has things to say in the way that a lot of people are expecting.

I do feel like perhaps accidentally it has become a very sort of of the moment movie in that I feel like it has the same kind of not quite bewilderment and not quite exhaustion but a little of both of those things about this sort of era that we have stepped out of a little bit. This sort of, you know, post-20204 backlash against, you know, the last eight years or whatever, that there's a sense of, like, I just can't do this anymore. I just can't, like, have these arguments the same way anymore.

I don't think it's a Me Too movie at all. I think it is a movie about the way that. people have set themselves up to have to posture towards, you know, survival instincts, that everything has turned everybody into these, like, incredibly selfish monsters that can only think of their human reactions in the realm of, like, cunning strategy. I think that's the only way in which the title, by the way, makes sense. The title makes sense. It doesn't make any sense, except for the fact that, like, it really is a movie about people who almost aren't allowed to have human reactions because they have to think about what their next step is and what their next...

Unless the title is literally about basically the epilogue of the movie. Sure. And therefore being, like, here is what our point is. Yeah. I also, I mean, I think, you know, it's kind of a movie about how words fail us and our whole concept. of who we are as individuals can be so so much wrapped up in ideas and, you know, putting ourselves on this intellectual pedestal that is, you know, especially when we're dealing with, you know, issues of personhood and the body, you know, that like ideas are not there to serve us and we're

coming out of a time or maybe we're still in it where we think that, you know, we can talk our way in and out of certain scenarios regardless of if you have done wrong, if you are saying that person did wrong. We think that it can all be summed up in these ideas. And that ultimately, especially with human mess, like I said, it's a nervous breakdown movie. Yeah. Those things ultimately fail us. And that is not really a tool that we as human beings. have as much as we maybe think that we have, or to the degree that we've told ourselves that we have. Well, and it's these, you know, as we live by these tools, we die by these tools also, right? As we live by taking advantage of people's, you know, admiration, but also their ambition. And then

that, ultimately, you end up, you know, sleeping in a den of vipers. And, Ultimately, you have cultivated an atmosphere around you that is incredibly ambitious and that is incredibly, you know, self-centered and self-obsessed and good luck to you. Then when this shit hits the fan. Well, I also kind of feel like it solidified my idea of Luca Guadonino because I think I mean this positively. negatively and neutrally. He is a petulant filmmaker. Yes. Because many times now he has done something that it feels like he is very self-aware of what we expect a movie to be or what we expect him to do. And then he kind of doesn't really give you that movie.

Like last year before queer, everybody being like, oh, he's finally doing a gay romance again. And I'm like, oh, you haven't read the book. have you. Well, it's, it's about heroin. And, like, then again, he is neither doing in that movie the movie that will satisfy people who just want, call me by your name again. But he's also not really doing burrows either. No, he's doing the literary purists, yeah. It does. And here, he's not doing, as much as people want to reduce it down to just this, I don't think he is just doing a Me Too movie. So it's like if you go into this expecting

him to have some type of statement about it, like he already knows that you think that and he's going to not give it to you because you expect it of him. Do you think he does that on purpose? Do you think he sets up audiences or

the press or you know, the sort of the cinephile community? Do you think he sets them up with those expectations? and then delivers a movie almost as a backhand to that, to whatever he's, whatever expectation he's drummed up.

Well, he is Italian. I mean, maybe yes and no. I think it's also just that, like, he's a filmmaker who's very high on his own supply, which, of course, I love from just about anybody. And, you know, I don't think queer is trying to avoid anything related to you know heavy drug use

or heroin but I do think he can be like this is my sandbox I'm not really all that interested in this whole thing that this movie is kind of about I'm more interested in this and forming it around this because that's one of my things about after the hunt

is like yeah I think it might have been intentionally written as a Me Too movie but I don't think that's ultimately the movie that was made I do think that is the script is not good I do think that is Lucas M.O. as well, is looking at a script, seeing what the script is about, and then being like, I'm not really interested in that. I'm interested in this, this off, this obtuse angle on this. And Bones and All is one of those movies. I mean, it was brought to him by his screenwriting partner who adapted the novel. The original source novel is a Y.A. novel. I mean, it's a very faithful adaptation. And if you'll excuse the pun, you can see that in the bones of the movie a little bit in the sort of lore. Well, it's the young girl who's not understood by the world except for this one boy who gets it. And it's not quite the Rapunzel fantasy that so many of these YA things are, which is, I have an illness.

that has kept me isolated from the world. And if only this one boy would climb my giant braid of hair. So I guess this is... It's not her braid? No, no, I only said braid of hair because... But, like, but no, but that's the Rapunzel fantasy of things like fucking... What's the Shainlin-Witt-Legroat thing? Fault in our stars.

Fault in our stars. Fault and our stars and all these sort of things where it's just like, I am a princess with a fatal illness, and, you know, I need my prince to come rescue me for the last two days of my life or whatever. Whereas bones and all is I am a princess with an illness. You know, who has been cast... Or an addiction. A compulsion. I don't think the movie really does the addiction metaphor with this, though. I feel like...

I see it. We can talk about it. But anyway, regardless, because of this, I have been cast out by my family. And I've been, you know, again, nobody will understand me. But this one perfect boy who sees me, who, you know, I mean, whatever, we can get into the fact that these people can smell each other two towns over and whatnot, which I find to be one of the

movies more fascinating elements that it brings to... What does a cannibal smell like? I need the answer to that question. I do appreciate the ways in which monster fiction, and I guess I will put this in the realm of monster fiction in that like cannibals,

vampires, werewolves, these kinds of things that ultimately feel like they have rules to them, Each time they are brought to the screen or to a book or whatever, you have to establish what the rules are, what the parameters are. And I like what, you know, what Luca's bringing to this and what I imagine maybe was a thing in the book as well. This idea of detection by scent that, you know, from miles away they can. which also feels like a queer allegory, we have an ability to just sniff each other out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

But which is also, you know, obviously there's, you know, there's a sexiness to that, but there's also a predation to that. You know, it is a, I mean, talk about after the hunt. Like, it is a way, you know, these are the ways in which, like, animals, you know, hunt things in the wild and whatnot. But I liked that. I think of all the elements to, rather than having it be like, you can't feed on other feeders or else you'll die. Or, you know, you have to stay indoors until sundown. Or, you know, the only way we can die is X, Y, and Z is just the only real lore that exists is that, essentially, is, you know, is the scent thing. Yeah, he's not making, I mean, he is making a young love movie. He's essentially making his bad lands.

Right. But. A lot of people resented that to you, by the way. He's not really making, we're doing this for our Halloween episode, but it's like, he's not really making a cannibal movie or a vampire movie. It's a cannibal movie. It's, it is. But it is not.

It's not a monster movie. Yeah, it's not like, yeah, like, you probably couldn't, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of horror fans who love this movie, but, like, you wouldn't position, you wouldn't, uh, market this movie the way you would market a horror movie, because it's not hitting those beats, you know, the way that you would say, this, this is a cannibal movie, you know? We're doing a lot of dancing around it. We got to get into the plot of it. Um, so before we do that, Chris, can you, uh, make the pitch to our listeners who are maybe not

part of our Patreon, why they should sign up for our, Patreon. Hey, listeners, we've got a fun Patreon. We call it this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance. You can join for only $5 a month. You're going to get two bonus episodes every month. The first of which is the first Friday of every month. We call it an exception episode. These are very similar to our regular episodes, except we're talking about exceptions to the rule. Movies that fit that this had Oscar Buzz rubric. But, got some Oscar nominations or two or maybe even three this month we talked about the Gwyneth Paltrow starring non-masterpiece

country strong nominated for best original song, best being used loosely what other movies have we done exceptions on? So many movies over two years worth episodes you're going to want to hear

us talking about movies that we love like Mulholland Drive Far from Heaven Steven Spielberg's AI artificial intelligence contact movies we don't love like Hitchcock

House of Gucci movies were maybe mixed on like Vanilla Sky we've had guest episodes we're going to have some soon and then what's the second episode you're going to get every month? It's going to be the third Friday of every month, and it's what we call an excursion.

These are deep dives into Oscar ephemero we love to obsess about on the show, things like entertainment weekly fall movie previews. We've recapped old award shows from like the MTV Movie Awards and the Golden Globes, the indie spirits. And then we do fun exercises. Like earlier this month, we did a whole episode of what-if scenarios of Best Picture tens in years that there wasn't a Best Picture Ten. Yeah, so come on over to our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz.

You should do it. You should do it. All right, Chris, prepare yourself to deliver the 60-second plot description of Bones and All, while I give the basics. We are talking about the 2022 film, Bones and All, directed by Luca Guadino, written by David Kajganich, starring Taylor Russell, Tim. Matthew Shalame, Andre Holland, Michael Stoolbarg, boy, does Michael Stoolbarg show up in this movie, David Gordon Green, Chloe Sevenie, Savini, right? It's Savini, we've found out. Sevenie? No, I feel like recently I found out that I've been pronouncing it wrong this whole time. Chloe, Colin, let us know. Jake Horowitz, Jessica Harper, who I one million percent thought

was Deanna Dunnigan through the entirety of this movie. And, Mark Rylans, Mark Rylans gets the and credit in this. It premiered at the Venice Film Festival, September 2nd, 2002. It ended up opening wide in the United States on November 18th, 2022. I saw it at the New York Film Festival in October of that year. United Artists, MGM, distributed this movie. It opened number seven in its opening week with $3.6 million, behind. the third weekend of Black Panther

Wakanda Forever, the opening weekend of Disney's Strange World, the in-theater qualifying weekend for Glass Onion, the first weekend of a movie called Devotion that I could not, you could offer me millions to say what that movie was.

With Jonathan Matrix and Glenn Powell. Absolutely, why not? The menu is in its second week at number five, Black Adam, in its sixth week at number six. And then, right there, the bones, bones and all. I want to have a discussion about the concept of consuming something, bones and all. But we'll do that after Chris, you have delivered.

Yeah, you don't see them ever chewing on bones. We've got to get to it. We can't be deterred. We've got to get to the plot description. We are 50 minutes into this episode. But we'll do that after the plot description, for sure. All right. Are you ready?

Sure. And begin. All right, we meet a young woman named Marin. She lives alone with her father in rural America. We're going on a tour of rural America in this movie. Anyway, she is a cannibal, and when she eats one of her friends' fingers, she and her father go on the run. They wake up the next morning, and her father has abandoned her and is like,

hey, left her a note and says, hey, I already knew this about you and that this is what you were and I tried to protect you, but you're on your own. and quickly she hops on a bus and then eventually Selly played by Mark Rylance and his braid and his hat and he basically info dumps on how cannibalism works and then they eat this dying woman together maybe she's already just died anyway she abandoned Sully

and he after he like shows her his long braid blah blah blah next up she meets Lee played by Timothy Shalame in a convenience store they kind of quickly spark together and they go on the run together and they encounter all different types of people including Michael Stilbark and boo his David Gordon Green

who is not a cannibal but still eats people he's like a wannabe cannibal they quickly evade them after they think that they're going to be in trouble and then they also who else? Oh like they are trying not to feed you know they're trying to avoid

this bad behavior and they queer bait this guy at a carnival show and Timmy eats them, and then they're still on the run, and they find out that they could go and meet her mother, who she never met, so they go to Jessica Harper. Jessica Harper basically tells them that she's, the mother is institutionalized, and then there's Chloe Seven You with no hands because she ate them, and she's also a cannibal, and knew this about her daughter, and eventually she just abandons Lee because of, you know, she's afraid she's going to eat him,

whatever um and then uh eventually she goes to is it iowa where this ends uh she gets reunited with lee they live somewhat peacefully until sully finds them and then they have to protect themselves and kill sully and then they uh in the fight and he enters lee and he's like no eat me you should eat me and uh she does and that is their tragic goodbye the end two minutes and 15 seconds for a very episodic movie for a very episodic movie Yeah, they're in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They mentioned Ann Arbor. Michigan.

That looks nothing like. Yeah, I don't know exactly where they filmed, but definitely. They filmed this movie in Ohio, baby. Ohio made. Well, there you go. The final shot, which is also earlier in the movie, too, that big, giant, beautiful open field, that does not look like Ohio. So I don't think they shot entirely in Ohio, or they found a perfect location. It's certainly not set entirely in Ohio.

I think it's, I think... No, it's not. It starts in Virginia. They go, they're in Minnesota at one point. They're in Kentucky at one point where I think Lee is from. Lee is from Kentucky. That hospital is in possibly a made-up town called Fergus Falls that I think is supposed to be in Minnesota. But anyway, it's sort of traversing Big Ten territory throughout.

So, right. So the concept of... of Bones and All. And I swear to God, I may have taken a bathroom break when I first saw this movie and missed the part where Michael Stulberg explains Bones and All, because I think I've gone all this way, all this time thinking... He gets the joy of saying the title. I feel like I've gone all this way being like, I guess they never really got into what Bones and All means. And then watching it this time, not only does he say it, but, like, Shalomey does say it specifically, Bones and All at the end. Logistic. I understand it as a metaphor, certainly. I understand it as an expression of passion and, you know, ultimate giving oneself over to this side of oneself. It's on a logistical level that I find it to be a little bit difficult just because it's just kind of...

How do you fit, even, you know, you're eating them in pieces. How do you fit a whole human body inside another human body? Well, it's not just that. Like, it's the actual, the concept of the bones. Like, at some point, you're going to like, you're going to fuck up your insides unless you're really like, you really have access to some sort of pulverizing mechanism. Cannibals have a meat grinder in there. That you're essentially turning it into, like, protein powder or something that you are then, like, sprinkling into the man smoothie that you've made out of your old boyfriend. Yeah, I, it just feels like a lot of trouble.

This movie cuts from her beginning to devour Lee from the chest, which, you know, I guess she starts at the wound. which makes sense, right? She sort of starts because there's already, you know, she doesn't have to do any biting. Exactly. And then they cut, and then the next thing you see is just a completely empty bedroom there. And she's sort of, you know, obviously leaving town

to go someplace else. But, like, that's a lot of steps between step A and step Z. Like, do you think she ate it in phases? Do you think she was like, now is dinner and then we're going to like sleep on it and then I'll wake up and like the femur and such will be like breakfast or I just had a lot of questions I this is how we are very different viewers I'm like you tell me she ate him bones and all I believe you I'm well I have no questions about because I imagine you're just like oh just like Molina in mortal combat where

she just like slurps up the man. Sure. But then she spits out the bones because you can't digest the bones. Okay. You cannot bring out, bring up Mortal Kombat without us discussing the TikTok you terrorized me with. Wait, what did I terrorize you with? The Billy Porter doing the intro to Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat, sweetie.

It's the funniest thing. Ditto, dido, did it. Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. I can't believe you had never seen that before. That's it. But yeah.

I would watch Taylor Russell in a Mortal Kombat movie. I will say that. Sure. Anyway, I'm being sort of tongue-in-cheek about this, but I do feel like as a, it works much better as a metaphor than it does as a thing you could imagine somebody actually doing without, like, really, really harming their GI tract. But you understand, right?

It's just. Yes. Yes. I feel like, I mean, like, the human tooth is the same. thing as bone, right? Like, those are... Sure, more or less. Yeah.

I just don't know how that would happen. Yeah. And I know that I am like, perhaps sometimes annoyingly willing to go to the, the, like, emotional truth of something or the allegory of something rather than the hard fact

of how does this work in a movie. But, like, I do think this is where, you know it becomes somewhat of a reflection of the opioid crisis in this movie that it's like these you know the whole aside from the rules of it and some of the rules are that like they just have this hunger that is not and of course I don't want to be insensitive in talking about this allegory but like there's this hunger that they try to avoid they spend more of the movie trying to keep that at bay than you know know, they're not just going on some eating rampage throughout this. And then there's a whole degree of shame that follows them from, you know, this hunger that they have. And it's also just like, look at the landscape we're talking about, you know. This is where I think, you know, Luca basically following whatever muse sings to him at any given occasion sometimes works because, like, he's not from this part of the country.

He doesn't, you know, know, know necessarily what it's about. But, you know, he shows up to film in these locations. And I think he's getting really kind of in touch with the environment while telling this very specific story. And you're talking about parts of the country that have been ravaged by the opioid crisis, too. And I just think it, like, seeps into the ether of this thing. along with, you know, other, like, economic concerns. I mean, I really do think that this is a movie about the Midwest.

And, you know, you can look at it and be like, well, this is, you know, there's no real opportunity for hope for these two young people. And the closest thing that they have is their belief in each other. And their, you know, hope and belief in their romantic union, for lack of better word. It's the only thing they have to really escape their circumstances and, you know, have something to believe it. I do like how much the movie does not really hem and ha very much about investing in their relationship. And or even like caring so much whether, like, you know, I saw in some of the reviews and they were like, well, like, what, you know, where is the forward momentum of this movie? where are they headed? And it's like, well, they're headed nowhere. Like, they're just two,

they're two kids, really. And like, you know, is the, would, you know, would that romance have ever lasted? Well, no, but who cares? They're teenagers. This is why I bristle about the, the chemistry thing between the two of them, because I think as scene partners, they're very attuned to each other. Yes. But are we really supposed to believe that this is a, a relationship that can last? No. No. No. Like, but like, but they're the only, two people in the world who are in any way an option for each other. So, like, they, they imprint upon each other. And all of that to me mix. And, like, I think the movie is clear-eyed about this. Their relationship is partly out of necessity. Well, you see that

reflected in the Stoolbarg, David Gordon-Green thing, where it's just like, I don't think these two people, like, you know, are particularly oriented towards one of us. but they have found themselves in this weird little symbiotic life partnership because like that's what we have. That's sort of the ultimate sadness of Sully if you want to, you know, let yourself go there. It's just like, yes, he's a wretch. Yes, he's creepy. Yes, he's, you know, all of these things and ultimately, you know, emerges at the end as the ultimate villain. But he's also incredibly sad. And he's also incredibly somebody who's just like, His rage comes out of the fact that just, like, he's alone.

And he keeps trying to seek out. He, you know, tried to seek out Marin. And she was like, nah. Yeah. And. Bye. Yeah. Thanks for all the advice.

Right. Right. Which she's, you know, good call. Thanks for the advice. Sorry about your braid. Sorry about your braid. Yes. Yeah, because he, the braid, if we haven't explained it enough, he keeps the hair

of whoever he eats. And so over the course of his life, he's woven this... Murder braid. It's truly disgusting. Murder braid, yeah. Yeah. But it shows you why a bones and all approach

isn't ideal, because if he had tried to eat all that hair, that would have really, really done a number on him. I'm just saying. So, right, so she ends up... Give it to the girl from Julia DeCrono's raw. But I also feel like, getting into the... to the, you know, the Shalomay of it all. And why I feel like he's so well suited to this.

And I agree that it goes beyond this idea of, like, chemistry with him and Russell because they ultimately do share the screen very well, you know what I mean? And he does a very good job of, and I think Greta Gerwig got to this too when, you know, in Lady Bird especially, but also to a degree in little women, in that he's somewhat iconoclastic just being there. It's tough to, it's, it's, he stands, he stands alone in pretty much any context, right? He just does not feel like he is part of, a group, you know, in any way. And I think in this movie that is all about, there are only,

you know, two of us. There are only, you know, this handful of us. And, um, and anyone else out there like us is predatory. Is likely predatory. Right. And we are as well. That's the other thing. And so much of the movie is particularly Marin trying to, fumble her way into some type of ethics with what they do, in that they try to avoid, even when they have to, like, feed, right? They don't want to feed. Part of the problem in the aftermath of him killing the gay Carney is she's so upset when they find out that this guy had a wife. and a kid, you know, back at home. And all of a sudden, this sort of like guilt-free, oh, we killed a guy with, you know, no connections, seemingly.

Now we find out that he's, you know, was closeted and had a wife and kid, and she gets so upset about that. And obviously, to one degree, you're like, oh, well, good for her, I guess, that she feels a degree of guilt about this. But the other thing that you think of, or at least I did, was just like, how fucking naive. to imagine that you have this ability to judge one life as being more disposable than another simply by checking their wallet for a photo of a wife and a kid. Do you know what I mean? It's a very sort of... The movie's also a period piece, too. Well, but it's just a very, very youthful way of sort of assessing worth and ultimately something that, you know, if anybody came up.

You also see this in a way with Sully, too, because Sully has his ability developed or imagined that he can tell when someone is going to die. So he has his own... His ethics, yes. Yeah, his own code of ethics that he operates in as well. And Stoolberg and David Gordon Green for whatever, you know, however, like, they have developed their own ethics as well. Their ethics are mostly just like, you know, whatever works. know what I mean? But like they, but like everybody you come across has had enough time with this affliction that they have figured out how they are going to. Chloe Seveny also, you know,

she heard, you know, solution to this was to eat her own hands and to go into a mental ward and to ultimately like become nonverbal. You know what I mean? Like she can't speak by the end of the movie because she has checked herself out. And I mean, she's medicated to the gills. Well, and she has her letter to Marin as well, where she effectively did this to protect her daughter, but also, like, she was afraid of her daughter. Well, the father's note certainly, you know, is just like, I considered taken care of this problem, you know, myself, but I couldn't do it. Ultimately, you know. So she has the, it is interesting that her cannibalism, and again, I'm not going to lean too hard in, I don't want to lean too hard. I don't want to lean too hard into the addiction or opiate allegory, but like this is something that's proven through Marin to be an inherited trait, you know, and something that, you know, she comes from a home that knows what this compulsion looks like and what you may have to cut off, not literally, but figuratively, in or.

order to survive. Well, and certainly André Holland, cutting her off at the beginning, has that feel of the sort of tough love. I can't, you know, I can't. I got you as far as you could go. I can't continue to support this. It's a different kind of thing. I do like how ultimately I feel like the movie is resistant to drawing one-to-one parallels

with anything. I was sort of relieved. Yes, that's one of its strengths. There are aspects of drug addiction, but there is not a like simple one-to-one. Economic despair. I think if it's kind of not, there is no one-to-one in what this movie is doing, and I think it's better for that. But I do think it's ultimately just kind of through a young love cannibalism movie. It is about how hard it is to escape this type of, you know, environment.

Escape this type of, you know, economic despair, this type of... I mean, like, you just look at how he films, you know, the landscape in these places, these kind of run-down buildings, the slaughterhouses, the factories, the power lines. You know, it's bleak, but there's also a romanticism, too. that I think is really compelling. Well, the scene that I find maybe the most beautiful in the whole movie is them sort of floating in the lake while the fireworks are going off, you know what I mean?

Which is such a transitory kind of thing. You can't stay in the lake forever. The fireworks aren't going to last forever. You know what I mean? It's very sort of like capturing the moment kind of a thing. but it's it's that romance of like you can you can feel the sort of you know midsummer night kind of uh vibes throughout so much of this movie and um they're doing things that a lot of like young people do they're going camping and you know in a in a clearing

They're going to the carnival. They're going to watch fireworks. They're going to the lake. And all of this is sort of... I think, though, one of the things that I like, especially this time around, was for as satisfying as I find it to be, to sort of marinate in those kind of, you know, greater, you know, what is this movie trying to say? say kind of questions, I think there are so many scenes that just feel very satisfying isn't quite the word. But do you know what I mean?

They just feel like. They feel full. It feels very ripe. Yes. You know, the other eating. I think you're totally right that like you're not marinating, but like you're just kind of living in this, you know, romantic escaping. You know, because what are they do?

They're on a road to nowhere quite literally. Yeah. They're just trying to escape their circumstances and escape into each other. The, like, romantic feeling is the thing that you're meant to feel throughout it in the midst of this very bleak setting and circumstances. I like how naturally the urge to feed comes to them. The fact that the scene where she bites the girl's finger happens so without. So much without pomp and ceremony, there's no music cue leading up to it. There's no...

That scene also feels very queer. Well, obviously, of course. And I think the other scene that I mean that is, you know, very textually queer, the whole thing at the carnival where he sort of lures in this carnie is really fucking good. Like that whole sequence from, you know, him approaching the booth to them ultimately finding out that he's, you know, after they kill him. But like everything through that where, you know, they flirt with each other, he sort of lures him to the cornfield. She kind of creeps up on the cornfield and sees the two of them in this, you know, sexual, you know, embrace in a way that she is, I think, fascinated.

and also she's seeing the lengths to which Lee will go to make a kill, which I think, again, she's always sort of trying to calculate and, you know, figure out where her ethics are in this. And, you know, would she honey trap somebody that way, right? Would she lure somebody in to that way? Ultimately, that's not how, you know, she's ever operated. But I think the movie also leaves you

in a place where it's just like she's just going to go on. You know what I mean? And she's alone now. And, you know, I don't know. There's also a sense of it's easier ultimately for her to avoid the urge

or seemingly when she's alone. Because she never, does she ever eat? I guess if we're just calling it that, without somebody there? Because it's always Lee or Sully. Well, I mean the finger scene, but yeah. The finger scene, sure, sure, sure.

But that, we are led to believe, was like after a prolonged period of being good, essentially. Because she also killed people in childhood, including a babysitter and then someone at a camp. Well, and even just from the way that, like, when she comes back home and Andre Hollins, like, oh, my God. not again, and now we've got to, like, you know, where, like, clearly this has happened periodically through her childhood. And, like, the way that she and Lee, like, bond over, like, each of them having, like, killed a babysitter in their youth. And then the other thing that we haven't talked about is Lee's sister. Well, Lee's sister. The thing that I'd... Played by Anna Cobb, excellent, and we're all going to the world's fair. Oh, I didn't make that

connection. Oh, fuck. I also, the thing that I didn't catch the first time around was them, her seeing Kayla's hair in the braid at the end. And we find out that Sully had killed her. And I totally missed that the first time. But that's like, but, you know, Lee's story about killing his dad, which, again, is just sort of an extension of how many other movies that we've seen about you know, these, you know, angry, violent yet also romantic young men whose only crime was murdering, you know, they had to kill their father because their father was beating up on their mom or something like that, right? Which is obviously this great kind of have your

cake and eat it to way of storytelling is you can communicate the violent. in this male figure. Non-threatening violence. Non-threatening to you, right? Right. Noble. Noble violence. In another lifetime, Bones and All is an excellent country song. And yet, it ends the button on this, and I understand that it's, you know, it's meme fodder for, you know, gay guys or whatever.

But the thing where he's just like, I ate him up, I ate him right the fuck up, and it felt fucking great. And it's like, oh, right, there is no nobility. There's no pure nobility to this, right? Ultimately, you know, he fed because he needed a feed and it felt fucking great. And you talk about, you know, the way he describes it, how I could feel all of my blood vessels sputtering all the way through my body, which is like an incredible description. I don't know. I think he's great. I think Taylor Russell is great. I think it's just. sort of bewildering to me that you could enter this movie and be like Shalame gives me nothing. Which like some of these reviews said, and I just don't understand

it. It's because they expected it to be his movie. And ultimately, I mean, it's a shared weight, but it's more of Taylor Russell. Well, he's definitely a supporting performer in this. But like, even with that, I think he's just, I think he's giving so much. I think he brings so much to the table. Yeah. I can't really imagine another actor in his age group that could do as well in this role as he could. And, like, there are types of roles that he can't do as well either. It's not like I'm, you know, some lunatic being like, you know, he shouldn't be cast in everything or whatever.

But sometimes when I'm less sold on him, it's not even his fault. Like, we've had this argument before, but, like, my problem with Dune is that I don't think Paul has written very well. I don't care about Paul when I watch those movies. and that's a problem. But it's not his fault. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with you, although I will say that the place that they left part two off

has me very hopeful because I do feel like he was quite good in the second half of that movie. But anyway, when are they going to start saying who's actually in the damn movie? Because they've only announced, like, the people that are playing the kids and... Have they announced who's playing the kids? Is it anybody I would know? no no they're not i mean you might know if they're maybe they're ticotkers i don't know they're very young

people um no thank you um all right i think this is also a point for lucca where people are a little bit like all right you know because it's like chloe 70 has a nonverbal cameo but was like advertises being in the movie i mean she's pretty amazing for you know the degree to which she's also pretty amazing and after the hunt in her i was going to say the thing that In her Melissa McCarthy plays a Oh, you want this?

I'm not going to give it to you is more Chloe. In her Melissa McCarthy plays a ladies basketball coach wig. For her to be like weird mousy lesbian or something and after the hunt and there's not a ton of her in there.

I like her when she's there but there's not a ton of her. The scene of her and Julia in the bar where they start playing a Morrissey song and she's like preemptively defensive about like I didn't think we were allowed to listen to Morrissey anymore or whatever you know what I mean and then after Julia leaves after that very tense interaction that they have and she's just like love this fucking song or whatever she says it's just like it's I love that I love those little touches in in after the hunt is also where I'm like it's really more about how we all fancy ourselves intellectuals but aren't because like the way that Yale works in that movie is is like, that's not real.

You know, she, Chloe 7ye is somehow a philosophy professor who's also a therapist, who's like writing scripts for her colleagues. Well, I don't think she's supposed to be writing scripts for her colleagues. It's not supposed to make sense or be literal or in the real world. Like the functionary, what functions in that movie is this is how we see ourselves. But I also feel like there's a decent chance that like the Yale that exists and the Yale that exists in our mind are two very different things. I think that movie was absolutely written as this is the Yale that exists.

And Luca said, what if this was the Yale of the mind? Well, and they completely, like, recreate Yale, like, not in New Haven. Like, didn't they film most of that in, like, England or wherever, where they, like, recreated so many of those. Oh, I don't know. I remember reading about that somewhere. Maybe don't fully take my word for it, but I remember seeing that. Anyway, on the subject of Chloe Seveny, before we get off of that subject.

One of my favorite subjects, Chloe Seventy. Of course. This is our sixth Chloe movie, because we will never stop, never stopping doing six-timers quizzes. We are plowing our way through them, and this is our sixth movie. They're kind of unavoidable at this point. Yeah, they're very unavoidable. So, as always, when we reach the sixth movie of an actor or actress, I give Chris quiz based on the six films that we have covered from that actor's

filmography. So for Chloe, and once again, as always, I encourage Chris to write these down because the answers to these questions will be one or more of the following films. So, we will be talking about

the following films from Chloe Seveney's filmography. Zodiac, which we did several years ago, love and friendship, The Witt Stillman film.

Beatrice's at dinner. It's our episode number 215. Shattered Glass, starring Hayden Christensen. American Psycho, which is our 304th episode. And now, Bones and All. All right, Chris. The following questions will be answered by one or more of those movies. Are you ready?

Sure. Which one of those movies is the longest? Bones and all. No. No, Zodiac. It is Zodiac at 157 perfect minutes. Which is the shortest? Patriot is at dinner.

It's like 80 minutes. It's 83 minutes. It very much is. Which has the best rotten tomato score? Hmm. This is a little tough. Remembering that Zodiac was not as warmly received as it is now. I think it's shattered glass.

It is not shattered glass, although shattered glass... Is it Zodiac? It is not Zodiac. Is it love and friendship? Love and friendship bodies the field at 97%. So, yeah. Good movie. Very good movie.

Which is the worst Rotten Tomato score? American Psycho. American Psycho. I will say they're all pretty good. American Psycho is the lowest at 68%. So that's pretty good. Biggest box office earner. Zodiac?

Zodiac. But still 30, 30s? 33 million. Yep. Yeah. It is not the most lucrative of films, which is the lowest box office.

Ooh. I mean, Bones and all placed in the top 10th of this is post-COVID. Beatriz at dinner? No. Which is kind of surprising. There are like three movies that I would have been like, yeah, I had a guess that would have been the lowest.

So it's Love and Friendship or Shattered Glass. Love and Friendship is an Amazon movie, but it was released by, I believe, Roadside. So that's when, like, Amazon movies did really get kind of a robust release. So I'm going to say Shattered Glass. It is Shattered Glass at $2.2 million. Love and Friendship made $14 million domestic, which is like, If it made $14 million domestic now, it would be a Best Picture nominee. Yes.

Which two movies were directed by Oscar nominees for writing? Shattered Glass is Billy Ray. Yes. It was a nominee for Captain Phillips. Miguel Artetta, no. Oh, Whit Stillman for Love and French. Yes, with Stillman, a nominee for Metropolitan. Metropolitan, yeah.

Which movie, which one of these movies was directed by an Oscar nominee for directing? Zodiac. Zodiac, David Fincher. Which movie was directed by an Oscar nominee for producing? Is it McCleartette? Billy Ray. I think it's Billy Ray, so it's shattered glass. It is not Billy Ray.

Oh, it's Bones and All. It's Bones and All. Luca, yeah, for Call Me By Your Name. Yes. Which of these movies has the same? same cinematographer as the Mountain Between Us and Elvis. Fuck Mountain and Elvis. Okay. It's Mandy Walker. It's Mandy Walker. Who shot Shattered Glass? Yes, very good. Which of these movies has the same cinematographer

as Fiona Apple's music video for Criminal? I think that's Harris Safedas, so it's, um, Zodiac. Yes, exactly correct. Harris-Savidus for Zodiac. Which of these movies has the same composer as the Ice Storm and Where the Crodats sing? It's the Ice Storm James Horner?

I'm going to guess Zodiac. Well, the answer that I have is... No, James Horner passed away before Where the Croddach sing. Yeah, now I'm double-checking the Ice Ducsing. storm. Hold on. Yeah, James Horner did not do the ice storm. Beatrice the dinner?

Nope. The answer is Shattered Glass. Michael Dana for Shattered Glass. Which movie was released in American theaters five days after the 79th Academy Award? courts. Okay, so the 79th. 79th is the year

we're talking about. So, Beatriz a dinner? No. Bones and all. No, because it would have to be a spring release. Oh, Zodiac. Zodiac, March 2nd, 2007. 79th Academy Awards were the 2006 Academy Awards

that honored the departed. Oh, that's because I have one of my tabs. that I have open is the 79th Venice International Festival. There you go. Which movie was released in Gemini season? Love and Friendship. Nope.

Patriot's a dinner? Which is it dinner? June 8th, 2017. Which movie was co-written by the screenwriter who wrote Blood Rain? Blood Rain. Ova Bulls Blood Rain. Oh. American Psycho?

American Psycho. Gwynnevere Turner was the only screenwriter credited for Blood Rain. Girl, get your check. Which movie screenwriter is IRL Cousins with Timothy Oliphant? You've told me this before. Zodiac? It's James Vanderbilt? James Vanderbilt. Oliphant is a Vanderbilt?

Exactly. Exactly right. Aliphant is a Vanderbilt. Of those Vanderbilt. Which were the only two movies to play at the Telluride Film Festival of these six? Bones and All. Yes. And Chattered Glass. Yes, correct. Which were the only three movies to play at the Sundance Film Festival? Love and Friendship. Beatrice at Dinner and American Psycho. Yes. Which is the only movie to feature Chloe Seven Ye on the poster? Love and French. Yes. Very, very, very in the background. But yes. Which of these movies featured, the tagline. She was invited, but she's not welcome. Love and Friendship? No. Oh, no, Beatrice's a dinner. You fell for it. Yes. I love that. All right. Which of these titles has the largest possible Scrabble score? Sodiak, not a lot of letters, but it has a Z.

Beatrice's Dinner also has a Z. Love and Friendship, most letters. But, like, all the other letters in Beatrice at dinner, the B will get some letters. A D, I think, is four points. Maybe it's only two points. How many points does a Y get you? I don't think it gets you that many. Where are you getting a Y?

American Psycho. Oh, gotcha. I'm just going to say Beatrice at dinner. So, yes, if we stipulate that love and friendship has an ampersand and not a spelled out and. If we spell out the and, it's love and friendship with 30. Because of the most letters. Because of the most letters. If not, then it is Beatrice's at dinner at 27.

I'm going to take my point for that. Thank you. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include psychopath, symbolism, and police inspector? Zodiac. Yes, well done. Well played. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include dancing, period drama and seen during the end credits.

Love and Friendship. Yes. Good job avoiding my little red herrings. Which movie got a Writers Guild nomination? Shatterglass. Nope. Beatrice's a dinner? No.

Son of a bitch. Love and friendship. No. Wow. Zodiac at the last minute? Zodiac did, in fact, yes. Which movie won an award from the National Society of Film Critics? I mean, SARS-Guard is the easiest guess.

But did somebody give Tom Bennett one? I don't think so. Maybe they gave one to Zodiac. I'm going to say Shattered Glass. It's the safest bed. You are right. Shattered Glass, Peter Sarsgaard. Which two of these movies received special recognition for excellence in filmmaking from the National Board of Review?

Shattered Glass and Beatrice at dinner. So close. Shattered Glass, yes. Love and friendship. No. Wow. Bones and all. No.

Remember that special recognition for excellence in filmmaking is what they did. Oh, it's American Psycho. It's American So it's what they did before they had a list of top ten indies. Well, most of these are indies except for a zodiac. Right. But what I'm saying is at some point, they started naming that top ten indie movies instead of special recognition for excellence in filmmaking. Which movie was an AARP Movies for Grownups nominee? Beatrice the Dinner?

Yes, very good. Which two of these movies feature stars of the movie Laurel Canyon? Love and Friendship, Cape Beck and Sale American Psycho, Alessandro Navola. No. I mean, yes, you're right to Brer American Psycho, but it's Christian Bale. Oh, sure. Which two films feature stars of

Bap-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B. No, is also in Laurel Canyon? Is Novolta also in American Psycho? American Psycho? I thought so. Hold on. No. No.

I don't think he is. But I got the movie right. You got the movie right. Next question. Which two films feature stars of rendition? Zodiac Jake Gyllenhaal. Yes. And Shatter Glass Peter Sars Guard.

Oh, fuck. Which three films feature stars of... Rendition. Who else is in rendition? Not Merrill. Not... Reese I'll just say

Bones and all because we haven't had any Bones and all answers? No. I already said Zodiac, can't say Zodiac not Chatterglass

because you said that one. American Psycho? Yeah. Who's an American Psycho that's in rendition? Oh, Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, Rees Withers. Spins an American Psycho.

I had already ruled her out. Which two films feature stars of 25th hour? Mm. Brian Cox is in Zodiac. And... Hmm. There's Edward Norton. There.

No. Oh. No. Um. No Oh, Rosario Dawson's in Shattered Glass Yes, Rosario Dawson is in Shattered Glass She works for Forbes Digital

How dare you Which two films feature stars of Interstellar Bones and All, Timmy Yep And Um, is McConaughey? No. Not Hathaway.

Not Chastain. Not Damon. Um, not Lithgow. Oh, am I forgetting in. Intrastilar Birsten

Birsten's not in any of these I might need a just an effort of time Back up Back up a few Okay so I mentioned the person Yes Birsten

No Damon Hathaway Who else did I mention Chastain Um No O'conah, no.

Who am I forgetting? What cameo is? You definitely said it, not a cameo. Not the biggest role, but not a cameo. Hmm. Oh, Lithgow's in Beatrice's at dinner. He's so good. He's so very much in Beatrice's at dinner.

I was running through all of the dinner guests except for the big dinner guest. About which of these films did the Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert say, The movie gives shape and form to road rage, golf course rage, family abuse, and some of the scarier behavior patterns of sports fans. No, because he would have passed away before Beatrice at dinner. I'm pretty sure. American Psycho? Doesn't it sound like it could apply to Beatrice at dinner, though?

Yeah. But yes. About which of these films did Rex Reed say, it's a preposterous debacle that might work better as a Halloween skid on Saturday Night Live, but it takes itself seriously, which makes it seem even sillier. I found the results too sick and disgusting to describe, but not interesting enough to care. American Psycho.

No. Bones and all, is he still reviewing movies? Bones and all. Who published that? I think it's still the Observer, right? What the fuck? Hold on. I'm finding this. Yeah, the Observer.

I'm just shaking my head, listener. All right. So back to... the Oscar case for this. So we haven't really talked much about Taylor Russell, and she was coming into this movie with a decent bit of previous

pedigree because this movie comes only a few years after Waves, which was a movie we've talked about on this before, the Trey Edward Schultz movie Waves, that had... We've never done an episode on Waves, right? No, because it I'm at the point of forgetting

what we've done. We've definitely not done waves before. Waves, though, we've talked about as a movie that went through a full cycle of hype and backlash within a day at the Toronto Film Festival. It was the most amazing thing I had ever seen in my entire life. And the one thing people could seem to agree on was that Taylor Russell was really great in that movie. Yeah, she's the best thing about the movie. So she ends up getting an Independent Spirit Award nomination for Waves. She ends up winning the Gotham Award for Breakthrough Actor, for Breakthrough Performance at the Gotham's,

beating out Noah Jupe for Honeyboy, Jonathan Majors for the last Black Man, San Francisco, Julia Fox for Uncut Gems, Asling, Franciosi for the Nightingale, and Chris Galust for Give Me Liberty. A very interesting selection of folks. She won a virtuoso award at the Santa Barbara Film Festival for Waves. So, like, she was really, like, they were giving her the push. Also, breakthrough awards from the Black Reel Awards and the African American Film Critics Association. So she was, like, popping that year.

And since then, she's, in addition to Bones and All, she's worked a decent bit, right? She's been in... She's in the escape rooms. I know you love the escape room. I do love those escape room movies, and she's the lead. She's the main character in those. She was also in that movie Mother Couch that I never saw that like the tape. Mother comma couch.

Mother comma couch. I never saw it either. Which is too bad. I was sort of hoping one of us would have seen it. She's also in an upcoming movie, a Nahang Jin movie called Hope. This will be interesting. South Korean sci-fi thriller with her. Alicia Vakander and Michael Fastbender.

You might be looking to see that next year's can. Seemingly. Given the release plans for this movie. Seemingly. Yep. That's been in post-production for a while. She's also, we'll see. Going to be doing a Frank Ocean movie.

See, Frank. I love Frank Ocean. Does waves not already count as a Frank Ocean movie? Let me bookend this by saying I love Frank Ocean. We'll see. I love Frank Ocean. Waves is already a Frank Ocean movie, so it'll be her second Frank. No, it is not.

That is Trey Edward Schultz's problem. Don't hang that on Frank. This is what happens when you let straight people listen to Frank Ocean. You get not good movies. Anyway, yeah, I think she's quite good in the movie, and she ended up once again picking up a modicum of precursor awards for this. She's once again nominated at the Gotham's and the Independent Spirit Awards. By this point, both of those awards had gone to non-gendered performance categories.

At Venice, she gets the young performer basically breakthrough prize that they have every year at Venice. Yeah, ends up getting essentially bodied by everything everywhere all at once. at the Independent Spirit Awards where like everything everywhere at once won everything that year. And then loses to Danielle Deadweiler at the Gotham's. And then in those same awards,

Mark Rylance was nominated for supporting performance in both of those. One thing I did write down, speaking of the precursor awards, is both of our local film critics groups nominated this movie for exactly one award. Greater Western New York film critics nominated it for Best Adapted Screenplay

and the Columbus film critics nominated it for Best Original Score. I think yours is better. Resner Ross, this is a great score. You can pin that right on me. I probably voted for it. I even saw people talking about how much they hated the score. Like, genuinely, I think people were, like, off their chain about this movie. That is...

It's... Whatever. Right. Right. Is there a bad Resner Ross score? I don't think so. I can't think of it off the top of my head. I love their score in After the Hunt, too.

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. The music and After the Hunt is great. There are moments in After the Hunt where the score will come blaring in into a way in which it feels like the sound system, like, fucked up for a second there. And you're just like, what the fuck is going on? But there's so... Fluka going off. Luke is going off.

Flukkah going off. Anyway, it's also a... It's a United Artists movie. I know it gets the MGM fanfare at the beginning, but it is United Art. This was during the period where United Artists and Amazon sort of partnered up and had some sort of a division of labor kind of a thing, putting out movies. I mean, they still have it, right? Yes, but I feel like there was a, maybe it's just like they were more. It's new at this point for Bonesville.

Well, and like House of Gucci was United States. artists the year before, and I feel like there was a little bit of, like, momentum there. And then 2022, there were like, no, United Artist has, like, a stable. And it was this, but it was also Till and 3,000 years of longing, George Miller's 3,000 years of longing, and then Ron Howard's 13 Lives. And I think if you take all four of those movies together, you have four movies that are really, really, well, I think you have two movies that are really, really, really. difficult to position. And then two movies that are really, really difficult to convince people are more than what they seem like on paper. And you've seen the Ron Howard one, right?

Yes. The only one of those movies I haven't seen is unfortunately Till. And it's one of those things where I was going to see it once it got Oscar nominations. And then it didn't. You had the full expectation that it would. And then it didn't. And so then everything else jumped it in the queue for the things I had to see, and so I still haven't seen Till. But 3,000 years of longing I had a real hard time with, and it's tough to you sympathize with the United Artists with having a hard time marketing that movie, and yet some people really liked that movie, and it just didn't really catch on. The more interesting thing was 13 Lives and Till, which I think you had a real hard time convincing people that 13 lives was going to be anything more than what it sounded like, which was a ham-handed Ron Howard, and this is Ron Howard directly following hillbilly elegy.

This is why we should never pay attention to test scores anymore, ever. Oh, the test scores are really bad. Because that movie apparently tested through the roof and Word got around and we were like, okay, Ron Howard, I guess back in the Oscar race. And Amazon was unsure what they were going to do with it. And then they eventually dump it on streaming. Well, except that, like, I understand why that movie tested really well because it's a good movie. And it probably does exactly what it promises that it's going to do. So if they would have just-

It probably deviates from it, not at all. Right. But I think there were enough people who were really, really cynical about, a Ron Howard movie at that moment that it ultimately like just does not they seemed fairly abashed about that movie

oh and I'm sorry the fifth movie after all of those was women talking which we'll talk about in a second but like the thing with Till was I think they had a hard time convincing people that it wasn't just

this sort of like theater of pain kind of thing where you were just going to watch Danielle Deadweiler mourn her son throughout the entire movie, which, like, is owed. And yet, you know, nobody really... It's sort of how it was very hard to get people to see Nickel Boys last year. Because ultimately, people don't want to necessarily sign up to, you know, go through that experience.

So ultimately, a hard time with those three movies plus bones and all. And then they had women talking, which, like, I even think they nearly, like, fucked that one up, honestly. Like, this was not a great. They did not. They kind of, they lost all momentum from that festival season, too. And, I mean, I definitely think the momentum was there for Danielle Deadweiler around the time the movie was released in October. And they dropped the ball with that and lost that momentum. too.

Bones and all, I think, is something that, you know, maybe, you know, us who are looking towards these things and doing things like predictions and such. Oh, I don't even necessarily mean for awards for Bones and all. I just feel like that movie just ultimately didn't really find its audience no matter what, whether it was awards, you know, or anything. But it was probably always going to struggle in that way and not be, not be able to build the type of consensus it would need to be an awards player, you know. And yet.

Don't you feel like in a healthy cultural environment you'd be able to sell a movie like Bones and All to teens? That can't go see the movie because it's rated R? To 18-year-olds, to college. Do you know what I mean? It's just like younger people. You know what I mean? I hear what you're saying. I mean, I think they were probably the majority of people who showed up already to this movie.

They just don't go to the movies. Because they're the worst. Because young people are the worst. All right. Young people still go to movies. Just look at what does make a lot of money. And young people still go to the movies. I don't know.

If horror movies continue to do as well as they always have done, that is always a sign that young people go to the movies. Yeah. It does feel like there is a gap. Like, I just feel like... It's hard to sell... straightforward not even straightforward it's hard to sell them on something like going to see something like women talking when in high school like yeah i'm not expecting i would have known classmates who

would have gone to see women talking like man that's fun i can't imagine what would have happened to me if i have suggested we go see women talking um okay maybe you needed more female friends i did go to an all boy school. I also can't imagine the girls that we went to school from the girls' school. Wanted to go see women talking, but who knows? Millennial Liberals, baby.

We would have absolutely seen that movie in high school. That's amazing. Just won the Silver Lion at Venice that year? I want to talk about these Venice Awards because it should be said that jury president

Julianne Moore did I would say maybe the closest thing to an unimpeachable jury award lineup that we've seen in recent times hit me with it

Golden Lion All the Beauty in the Bloodshed Laura Poetris's documentary about the great legendary you know the legend

and golden but also it's not just it's not just you know a portrait of a person it is also about generations of culture

arriving to a certain moment I think it's the movie of the century I will continue to say wow um grand jury price saw Omer by Alice Diop

I love that movie good movie Silver Lion basically best director to Guadonino best actress goes to Blanchet for tar. Actor goes to Colin Farrell for Banshees of Inasharon. Banshees of Inasharon also wins the screenplay prize, special jury prize to Panahe's

No Bears, and then Russell gets the young performer award. Do you think the scene where Jafar Panahi dresses up like a sailor and does a little soft shoot and no bears was what helped secure the special jury prize? Just remind me the next time that we are in person together that I need to take off my gloves and backhand you with them

because that feels like not violent I'm just saying But it does feel Like I'm reprimanded If you don't hear no dames When you see the title No Bears Then I don't know how to help you

So This I think that this is a Really Just like unclockable set of winners and I say that with like one of my favorite movies of that year

going home empty-handed from that prize that's the eternal daughter Joanna Hoggs the eternal daughter what of mine what what what faves of mine actually nothing that I really liked got uh got blanked that year a lot of shit a lot of shit got ignored um the sun the whale

blonde blonde yes what the I'm okay I get that the father You also liked Bardo by the way you would have liked to have seen Bardo got something What was the son doing in that Venice lineup? Like what are you talking about?

Taking a big old dump on the red carpet is what it was doing. Even the whale is by Aronovsky who has won a golden lion before so like there's a certain status. Florian Zeller was flying high after the father. Off of the father sure. I don't

think I loved the father as much as everybody did, but like, that's a good movie. The Sun is terrible. And I remember seeing it at the TIF premiere and Cameron Bailey was like, yeah, when we saw this movie the other week, I was like, the other week.

So you just like selected this movie without seeing it. I get it from like the status thing with Florian Zeller and Hugh Jackman, but like, that's definitely speaks of a movie that they did not see in completed form when it was selected. Would you like to hear about the plot for Florian Zeller's upcoming movie called Bunker that he's

in pre-production on? Sure wouldn't, but go on. Follows a married couple of 17 years, played presumably if the cast list of this is to be believed, Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem. The husband is an architect who accepts a controversial project to build a survivalist bunker for a tech billionaire. This decision leaves his wife to question their marriage. I'm Javier Bardem, Penelope Cruz, Stephen Graham in Florian Zellar's bunker.

I love the three of you. Run. Listen, he's made one, I think, really good movie and one seemingly really bad movie that I've never seen. So this is the rubber match. This is the test. I don't have faith. What else at this? What played out of competition?

let's see anything interesting Don't worry darling of course This was the Don't worry darling year This is the spit Yeah okay This is what's wild about This Venice film festival Is

Everything to do with don't worry darling And the spit happened before I went to Toronto Because obviously Venice is usually It straddles Toronto Everything that took place for that took place after before I went to Toronto and then I remember specifically like being in our Airbnb when we heard that all the beauty in the bloodshed won the golden lion and I'm like let's go

and in my mind and in my mind those things happened like two months apart from each other because in my mind the don't worry darling press cycle was and it was forever like the the scandal cycle that was forever but I guess the spit incident happened so late. But like it wasn't just, it was the spit incident. It was the like Florence Pugh showing up in the like, fuck you, mini dress kind of a thing. Remember, there

was all that where she wasn't doing the, the, um, the video with the apparel spritz. The apparel spritz, the thing where like Florence wasn't doing, wasn't mentioning the movie on her socials. And people were like, is she going to like ditch the press conference?

The whole thing where Chris Pine is at the press conference. Looking like fucking, what about Bob? Looking like he's just like on vacation at Lake Winapasaki or whatever. Just an incredible thing. And just the fact that that all happened within the span of the same two-week film festival and not like weeks apart is crazy. Listen, we all had fun.

But the thing of like this all basically coming about because people were scouring, Florence Pugh's Instagram and seeing she never mentioned the movie never we're never doing that again that is weirdo behavior don't do it

people y'all are freaks it did pay dividends over but also it did turn out to be like correct right it did turn like clearly she was avoiding mentioning that movie I still feel like we don't

know what went down with that movie. Don't we? My assumption has always been it was actually way more about COVID than we realize. Oh, I mean, let me tell you my theories about like the American history of the last, like, like, I do feel like every single thing that has happened since COVID has been actually about COVID, like everything from like, from like weirdo, like tween slang to Trump getting elected. to like everything. Everything has been a reaction to COVID. Well, sure. But, you know, they were filming that movie when like safety protocols were being figured out. I'm sure it all stemmed from some type of disagree. Well, it is also the genuine resentment of if somebody in a position of power is not doing what you want them to be doing,

then everything that they do annoys you. And if one of the things that they are doing is coistering themselves off with the hot co-star of the movie who is her new boyfriend, then you're really going to be pissed off about that. Didn't they go to some like wedding unmasked too? Oh, God.

But like everything they do is going to be annoying. So if that's happening, you're just going to be like, fuck that. Like, it makes a lot of sense to me. It certainly makes more sense to me than the like weird, you know, cauldron of resentment

that happened to Olivia Wild from people who didn't have to work with her, you know what I mean? Who seemed like they were like

super pissed at her for reasons that like feel petty. I do feel like we should maybe give her another chance. Of course we should. I don't feel good

about how everyone I mean like it was all don't worry darling is an acceptably bad movie. That is a bad movie that exists within the parameters of bad movies. That is not like a

beyond the pale like unfathomably, like, poorly made film. It's a bad movie. It's not a good movie. I mean, like, I don't think it's cats or anything in terms of disaster, but I do have the utmost certainty that there was like a whole finale sequence that they never filmed. Watching that movie, I was like, where's the ending? Where's the, where's the climax of this movie?

We're just ending? Apparently so. All right, anyway, we are, we are hitting the two-hour mark. So we want, let's, let's hit the, um, uh, what else? Luca, we talked about Luca, we talked about Timmy. Do you have anything else to say about Timmy beyond the fact that, like, side-eyeing me for everything that I have to say about Timmy? I'm not side-dying you at all.

Anything, though? He's very good in this movie. He's very good in this movie. Um, I want to talk, we should have, we should do another Timmy after you've seen Marty Supreme, because I do want an excuse to talk to you about Marty Supreme. And I do... There's no option. There's no option?

I don't think so. It's weird. Unless you want to do hostiles, which is not really... I mean, we could. I guess we could do the king. We could do the king. Did you see Club Chalemay on No Kings Day, did a post about watching the king? It's great.

It's super great. Yeah, we can totally do the king. I tell you what. I tell you what, no one is doing it like Simone. No one is doing it like her. It's true. It's true. Yeah, maybe we'll do the king.

But anyway, I look forward to you seeing Marty Supreme. Simone drop the letterboxed queen. Wait, hold on. Does Simone have a letterbox? I'm finding the post. Hold on. I didn't participate in any No King's Day protests. Kudos to those of you who did.

But in my humble opinion, there's only one king. I may have to watch The King on Netflix tonight. Have you seen the King? I love medieval New England. I love medieval England history. And Timmy did a fantastic job as the boy king who didn't want to be king. Club Sholome. That's like being like,

that's like you know we all need help every one of us every once in a while we need a little help that's why I'm choosing better help it's like so spawnconcoded it's so good this is not an endorsement of better help do not do not use better help

or use it but just like not because we fucking told you to you know what I mean like make your own decisions figure it the fuck out your own decisions but like they're not therapists um they are proprietary they are whatever anyway anyway aren't you so happy we don't have to do ads ever well i mean we could if we ever got on a network if we ever had to do an ad for better help i would flat out in the episode be like please skip our ads no i've i've talked to you before about my absolute uh terror at recommending any kind of nutritional or, uh, or medicinal or psychological, anything to anybody. Nobody

should ever listen to me. I think we should have to do, if we ever had ads, if we ever were on a network and we were like, yes, we will take the benefits of being on a network and suck it up and do ads. I would maybe demand that we get the kitty litter one. You have to do it. You Who Hates All Animals That would be very funny That would be very funny You sick of to clean it up after your fucking cat That's all I have to begin it

Get your stupid fucking cat This kitty litter All right Pretty litter is the name Is it pretty litter? Oh God They're probably I mean they advertise on

On podcasts So they're probably also evil All podcast ads now are just better help And AI To which I say Fuck you Bad. All bad. Okay. Anything else then before we move into the IMDB game? Let's look at some notes, shall we? What are the other notes?

De-gloving a finger is so gnarly. Like, the people who were disappointed by the gore in this movie, I'm like, she de-gloves a finger. No, there's some, like, there's also just, like, plenty of shots of, like, flesh coming, like, coming off of a- body, you know what I mean? Just like being pulled off of the body. You see Mark Rylance's guts. Like, yeah, you really do. They disembow the guy. Yeah.

Oh, in one shot, there's a stray shot of James Joyce's Dubliners, a movie about, a, you know, short story collection about class, just saying. That shot is intentional. Yeah, when they're talking about like their first, when they're talking about their first experiences of knowing that they wanted to eat flesh or did each flesh, it just sounds very sexual or like the someone describing their first you know hit of drugs or whatever oh interesting kiss has regional music taste oh i did love that scene the the kiss scene yeah i thought that was great um oh some interesting i'm going through the i mdb trivia one of which is um ethel

Kane released the song Famous Last Words, An Ode to Eaters, inspired by the film, commenting, Can't Stop Thinking about Bones and All. This one's for Lee and Maren.

That's all fine, I suppose. I need to talk about this thing where gay guys will just invent a new pop girly and just sort of like... She's not really a pop girlie.

Well, okay. It's been around for a few years. She's... But this... This is also my thing. An interesting bird. Gay guys will go on and on about how, like, this girl changed my life and step on my neck queen and whatever, and her name is just Ethel Kame. Like, it's just the most, like, functionary, like, lady at the DMV name.

I love American Teenager. That's a great song. I believe you. I absolutely believe you. Do you know what I mean? That there's a pop star, that there's a pop star called Caroline Bhalchek is just, like, weird. Polichick, whatever. It's weird.

Tell me it's not weird. It's not weird. There is no monoculture anymore. In my day, we had Madonna and Whitney Houston and fucking Willa Ford. Those were pop star names. We did not have Willa Ford. Those were pop star names, my friend. Willa Ford is the example.

of gay guys like aligning to a pop girl who is not happening that was Willa Ford in that day And you're trying to say she's of the band Paramore We had You are trolling me to the max

We really had it all We had Avril Levine Next you're going to be like Anastasia was a major pop act We had Cascada okay and what do you have nowadays Caroline Polichick Caroline Polichick turned you down when you asked her to homecoming to be part of like the group that like all went to homecoming together songwriter territory too like Ethel Cain's analog is not even like Willa Ford but this is even more specific then to my problem why are we yes queening singer-songwriters in this way you have to like differentiate you have to help me help you help me help you help you pop star pop fans to say that you were not yes queening

sarah mcclachlan elissa mollano not wait did you say alice milano i would never no not alice milano no you you stand them in a different way i'm saying i'm cross but i couldn't You were not yes, queening You were not yes, queening Fiona Apple. You were not, Alanis Morissette. Melissa Etheridge. Just the A names alone. You just want to be mad.

No, but no, it's just like, it's a different way. It's a different way of appreciating. You can't just sort of like stand a singer-songwriter by being like, step on my neck bitch or whatever. It's just like, Be specific. Have a, have a, have, have taste that, like, is differentiated. Differentiate your responses to things.

This is all I'm asking. Different. What are you talking about? This is what causes the confusion. This is what causes the confusion where all of a sudden, like, is Olivia Rodrigo a great songwriter? Or is Olivia Rodrigo mother who steps on your neck? She cannot be both. I think she's a.

A really strong vocalist is what I would say about Olivia Rodriguez. Okay, so then she's not mother who steps on your neck, which is fine. Not everybody has to be a mother who steps on your neck. I don't really, I am not a mother step on my neck person. Oh, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the other. You're talking to the three gay guys you're mad at. Speaking of after the hunt, I'm talking to the other.

Well, Joe, not everything has to make you come. And then you're coming back at me with, like, isn't other a problematic way of seeing people? And I'm saying, get the hell out. No, I know. I'm annoying. Whatever. No, it's funny. You just had Ethel Cain come across your.

And I saw red. I saw red. Your research for bones and all. And it sent you on a spiral. A spiral that did not include trying to listen to an Ethel Cain song. No. But, like, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be like, I spent two hours on the Ticketmaster website and ultimately couldn't get a ticket to Ethelcane. Like, that can't, like, the end of that sentence.

I don't think that happens to her. No shade, but I don't think that happens to her. It kind of happens to everybody in New York, unfortunately. Which is why I stopped going to concerts. Okay. All right. IMDB game. Tell the children.

I mean, I have to reposition myself. because we can't keep having this conversation. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

If that's not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. That's the IMDB game. It is. Chris, would you like to give your clue to me first, or get a clue from me first. I will I'll give first. So I went into the stable

of Guadagnanil performances, former cast members, performance I loved last year was none other than Jason Schwartzman in queer. We've somehow never done Jason Schwartzman. I love... Jason Schwartzman and queer so much, as you know.

So sweaty. So effeminate, but in a very touchy way, which I really appreciate. Which, again, as I said many times, just adds up to Stanley Tucci, and that's fine. Rushmore. Tucci's never been this sweaty. Has Tucci ever had a bead of sweat on his brow? I don't think so. I mean, maybe in Big Night when they were in the kitchen.

maybe in our big night together oh my god all right rushmore yeah yes that's correct the question really is going to boil down to and no no voice animated whatever no so no fantastic mr fox and no um is it is he a voice in the spider in the second spider reverse movie? Isn't he the like polka dot that things fall into or whatever the bad guy? Anywho. I don't remember a thing

about the second one. Because it wasn't very good. You don't say. Yes, he is, he voices spot. So this ridiculous thing you just said is true. Dead on balls accurate. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

So, Schwartzman. Schwartzman, Schwartzman. That's not in his known for it, though. I'm just saying that for the audience. I know you didn't actually guess that. No, I didn't. But I am going to guess Scott Pilgrim versus the world. Correct.

Okay. I'm trying to, like, think of other... A lot of people have Scott Pilgrim in there known for. Yeah. I'm trying to think of how many non-West Andersons he could possibly have. That's definitely one of them. I don't, unfortunately, think queer is going to be on there. I wonder, see, Asteroid City is his best, but it's maybe too recent.

Should have been Oscar nominated for Asteroid City. I'm going to guess Moonrise Kingdom. Correct. Yes, okay. Cameo performance. Yeah, a little beefy of a cameo, but yeah, a cameo performer. Beefy cameo. I feel like he shows up a lot in that trailer, which I think helps.

Okay, so you got two Wes Anderson's. Would you have a third? And if so, is it Darjeeling Limited? which is probably his only other non-Asteroid city lead or co-lead, I believe. I could say he's co-lead of fantastic Mr. Fox. Yeah, but we said not animated. Oh, true. Never mind.

I can't deceive you in any way. And I don't think it's going to be like, what's the, Elizabeth Moss movie that he's in, the Alex Ross-Perry movie that he's in. Listen up, Philip. Listen up, Philip. It's not going to be that. I'm going to say, it's flipping a coin between Darjeeling and Asteroid City, isn't it? I'm going to say Asteroid City.

Incorrect. Darjeeling Limited? Yes, the Darjeeling Limited. hit it see i knew you would at least get tripped up on that but i thought you would at least get off of the west anderson track what other things i'm trying to think of like what other things would have been on that track i mean he's in a hunger games oh he's in he's young he's been a voice in many he's young who he's young stanley tucci in ballad of songbird's dad oh right he's stupid right right right he's but like he's he's kin

to Stanley Tucci. It all makes sense, my queer theory. Anyway. Marie Antoinette could have been there. I probably would have guessed Maria Antoinette. I probably would have guessed it. You're totally right. You're totally right. All right. Anywho, for you, I went into

the possible future Luca projects, of which IMDV has several that are in some degree of pre-productive. He's filming the one with Andrew Garfield now. Yes, that's the one that's actually happening. The others are, like, in the realm of the subjunctive.

Well, yeah, because he's abandoned so many. I think he has his own wiki for all of the projects he's abandoned. Probably. One of which starred or was going to star or maybe you someday will star, who knows. One of your faves, the great French actress, Leis Cedou. Oh, how interesting. Indeed. So, no non-acting, no animated. I guess I shouldn't go, ugh, because it's really just specter that I hate, but I have to imagine one of the bonds is there.

She's also in the West Anderson's table. She is in French dispatch, and was she in? No, she was not in Phoenician scheme. I need to rewatch Phoenician scheme. I really loved it more than that. than most people. Isn't she in Phoenician's game? Maybe. Hold on. It's, isn't, aren't the only women just like Mia Threpleton and, um, Hope Davis? No, because Scarlet Johansson's also in it. Sure.

Um, yeah. Yeah, no Leosie do. But yeah, Scarlett Johansson's in it. Charlotte Gainsborg is in it. And those are your women. Oh, right. Because Charlotte Gainsburg's in heaven. Yes.

Okay. Okay. I feel like people of memory hold no time to die. So I'm going to say Spector. Spector. You got it. Blue is the warmest color. Blue is the warmest color.

You got it. Do I think anything else French is there? Kind of don't. Um Do I want to guess The French Dispatch though I'll guess the French dispatch Incorrect

Not the French Dispatch It's like the only Wes Anderson Performer without a Wes Anderson And they're known for I'll say no time to die Correct No Time to die Okay

One remaining I know it's wrong, but I'm going to say the beast Because the beast should be there She's so incredible in the beast She is incredible in the beast It's not the beast, so that's two strikes Your year is 2011 Oh, so this is before

Blue is the warmest color Which like, yeah, we knew who she was before then And she's a NEPO baby, respect Who's, what is she NEPO from? I forget, honest I think it's, I think it's Maybe both of her parents, but I don't think they were actors. 2011.

Oh, it's Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol. It is not, even though, yes, that was the year that she was in Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol. Okay, okay. That would make me so mad. It would make me so mad if it was seen of the bonds. I like Ghost Protocol. I do enjoy. Oh, yeah, but yes.

But for her? No, I get it. Yes, that's true. um she's like the lead in a million french movies and then it's just like here's two seconds in ghost protocol i suppose she's like villain number two in ghost protocol um okay 2011 which means at that time she would have also been in i'm guessing this is also an american movie yes Yes. Yes.

But it's, she speaks French in the movie. I would imagine so. I've seen the movie. I don't remember her specifically in it, but like, given... There is a French setting in this American film. Yes. Is the word French in the title? No, but like, you're on the right track.

Yes. It's not. Paris Chetem. No. What's the 2011 Paris movie? Why are you looking to me like that? Paris. It's not like the Woody Allen Paris movie, is it?

From Paris with Love? Is that the title? No. No, from Paris with Love is the John Travolta a terrorism movie. What are you thinking of? I'm thinking of like a Woody Allen movie. Yeah, what's it called? Perrin.

Oh, Midnight in Paris. Midnight in Paris. Who's the hell of she had Midnight in Paris? Someone named Gabrielle, apparently. I don't remember her in that movie at all. I sure don't. I sure do not. Oh, no, I was thinking of the, what's the, I think Penelope Cruz was in this one.

I thought there was another, maybe. Well, he did sort of like linger in Europe forever. Isn't there like a love letter in Paris or something? Well, he lingered in Europe because that's the only place he could get money. I was going to say, well, no, to roam with love is what you're thinking of. To Rome with love is exactly what I was thinking of, because that's the Jesse Eisenberg run, right? Yes, not good. I will say, of the, like, post, what's the post?

I guess match point and later, like, where it's like, he's got some really good ones and some really bad ones. He's always had really good ones and really bad ones, though. I feel like the really bad ones were harder to point out before, like, the 90s. Well, because he stopped having really good ones, and for some of us, Midnight in Paris was not a really good one. Oh, it wasn't. But, like, I think Vicki Christina Barcelona is a really good one. That's probably the last good one. I really love Matchpoint.

But, like, something like Cafe Society, which isn't, like, one of the great ones, I really enjoyed that. I never saw the Emma Stone ones. Well, Irrational Man is really bad, and Magic in the Moonlight is really bad. And then Cafe Society was the third of those. And so I understand. Oh, right. I did see Cafe Society. You know who's good in Cafe Society?

Blake Lively. Blake Lively's really good in Cafe Society. I don't know if Emma Stone is even in that one. Jesse's in that one. one. Jesse's in that one. Oh, it's Kristen Stewart. It's Kristen Stewart.

It is Kristen Stewart. Yes. No, Blake Lively is quite good in Cafe Society. But yeah, the Emma Stones are really bad. People forget that. People forget she had her little two-movie stint with Woody Allen. Who was in Yulamita Tall, Tall, Dark Stranger? Naomi Watts.

Yeah. Yep. Sure was. one. Can we talk about speaking of Woody Allen and after the hunt, the use of the Woody Allen font and title card format? He's such a little bitch. I fucking love it. This is why I'm saying. He's a petulant filmmaker. He knows what he's doing. I enjoy it. I enjoy it. All right. Chris is a good episode. That's it. That's it. That's our episode. If you want more, This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.tumbler.com. Chris

You should also follow us, by the way, on Instagram at this at Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? You can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. I am on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D.

You can also subscribe to my Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi-M-E-M-M-E-M-E-M-E-M-O-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, and Kyle let's try it again we would like to thank

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