This Had Oscar Buzz - 367 – Mumford

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Outside of his place in the Star Wars canon, Lawrence Kasdan has a quick rise in the 1980s after his debut Body Heat. With multiple Best Picture nominees to his name like The Big Chill and The Accidental Tourist, Kasdan’s status took a downward trajectory in the 1990s, closing the decade with 1999’s Mumford. Starring Loren Dean as a man pretending to … Continue reading "367 – Mumford"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Melan Hack, Millen Hack and French. Dick Pooh. Shockingly honest, that's what makes you great. I don't know all that much about psychology or therapy or ethics. Some talents. I'm from the state certification board.

Have all the fun. If you have any information about this man, contact your local law enforcement agency. This shrink school. you went to. Did you hear about it on an infomercial? From Lawrence Kasden, writer-producer of the bodyguard. Hey, Doc. I didn't realize you're so young to be so... I may be young, but Doc can tell you I'm very immature. Mumford.

You've fallen in love with one of your patients? Doc. It's not me, is it? Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast vacuum ceiling, our clone husband, when our real husband returns from space. Every week on this had Oscar buzz We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations

but for some reason or another it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy I'm your host Chris Fyle and I'm here as always with the real therapist who's out there to get me Joe Reed. Am I the Jane Adams?

Is that what you're saying? I don't know. I mean you could be a number of them I do love like the concept of Martin Short assembling a vigilante group of therapists that includes himself, David Pamer, and Jane Adams. I thought you were going to say, I'm Chris Fyle and I'm here, as always, with the Baratone TV host, whose weekly mystery show helped unlock the real identity. Okay, we can skip to Robert Stack.

Robert Stack, who filmed fake... I was going to say, credited in this movie as himself because he filmed fake Unsolved mysteries. That's, first of all, dedication. Second of all, as much as we will find out, I did not super love Mumford. I can't fully hate a movie that hinges its plot revelation on Unsolved Mysteries. First of all, in the town of Mumford, it's apparently the only show anybody watches. Everybody watches it in prime time as it's happening.

They cut to that shot of the town, like the end of the invitation, where all of the red light are all lit up through the Hollywood Hills. Like, it was like that. I was like, fantastic. But also, the town of Mumford is dedicated to Unsolved Mysteries in the year of 1999, which definitely we had culturally moved on. We're post-prime. Were there new episodes in 1999 of Unsolved Mysteries?

I'm going to do a very quickie little checkeruny. I think, I feel like that show lasted longer than we think. because certainly at least, I mean, it eventually, like, moved to cable before then it also then, well, it moved, okay, here's the original release day. Thank you, Wikipedia, for being so succinct. NBC from January of 1987 through August of 1997. Then it moved to CBS from November of 97 to June of 1999. Then two years later, Lifetime brought it back from July. of 2001 to September of 2002. Then, six years later, Spike TV brought it back from October of 2008 to April of 2010. And then, 10 years later, Netflix brought it back in its current incarnation that is still officially an active TV series. And, but that is, of course, officially, but didn't they only do one season? Hmm.

They did at least, you got me to watch. At least two drops of episodes. I don't know whether they called those, like, season 1A and 1B, you know, sometimes they do or whether they could. But there were at least two distinct sections of that show. And you got me to watch it, and I forget when, because I feel like we watched it together. And it wouldn't have been in a Toronto. So I have no idea when the hell this was. I don't know.

And then I never finished. I watched it with my wonderful friend Anthony Smith, who is no longer. with us. And we got very into that first batch of episodes. We were like kind of obsessed and would like text each other. And this was like, it was like July 2020. So it was like pandemic lockdown. We needed shit to do. So we were going to get into unsolved mysteries. And I will say I was I was really into certainly several of them. Unsolved Mysteries is a show that is meant to be like hit and miss, right? Like even in the original incarnation, which like in the new network, Netflix incarnation, each episode is a different case.

But originally, an episode would have, like, three separate... Three different, yeah. And there would be, like, the super crazy scary one, and then there would be one that's, like, just true crime. And then... What about it be supernatural? Or at least, like, if you were lucky, your episode would have one supernatural story. And then sometimes you would get update.

And then Robert Stack would tell you about a case update, because you could call in. But anyway, I enjoyed... a lot of the new season episodes. And then I read a comment somewhere that kind of, it didn't like ruin the show for me, but it did make me think where they were like, the more you watch these on self-mystries,

especially the new ones, the more you just see these like, sad families of people who probably killed themselves that are looking for like reasons to think like something else happened. Do you know what I mean? It does make you feel like,

yeah, that's kind of what the show's always been. And that's probably what it is. Scary, but also, like, human tragedies. Like, it's sad. And it's a sad show. And it is, whatever. Like, I don't want to ruin Unself Mysteries for anybody else. But, like, you do see that there is a through line from a lot of this to, like, conspiracy theory culture where it's like, this, the Occam's razor of it all couldn't be real.

Like, the most realistic explanation couldn't be real. It has to have been an elaborate conspiracy. I think the original incarnation of the show was a lot more, like, missing persons or, you know, like, whatever, like, bank robbers who are, like, still on the land or stuff like that. Well, our culture has shifted so much between Netflix Unsolved Mysteries and Original Unsolved Mysteries. Because now it's like you do an Unsolved Mysteries and it's like, you're kind of two steps outside QAnonon. Yeah. But in the 90s, it was very, like, tabloidy. It was very weekly world news.

It was, you know, that was the thing, like, the vibe of. One of the new Unsolved Mysteries was one about just, like, UFO appearances in the desert. And I'm like, my shit. Like, yes, let's do this thing. Because weirdly, like, QAnon doesn't, I mean, maybe QAnon has a whole, like, UFO section. Does QAnon still even exist? I feel like we don't talk about QAnonon. The only Q that is on my radar is going to be on the 50th season of Survivor coming next year.

So that was a weird, long way around the block for a joke about Q from Survivor. We can't talk about Survivor 50 until, like, the new year. We can't talk about it. It's true. It's on my mind because literally we're like planning our coverage for it right now, which we should be because times of waste in. Anyway. Masonford. Weekly world. No, I want to.

Yeah, finish. Not the Weekly World News. Though Bat Boy did. I was going to say, does Bat Boy have Weekly World News in your... I was such a scarity cat as a kid. I have no idea. I understand what... Drama.

I understand Bat Boy is a thing from, like, Tab Boy thing. But I don't know thing one about... It's a weekly world news. Right, but I don't know Thing One about, like, the musical Bat Boy. Other than that, it exists. Oh, and everybody's seeing it now. Everybody is seeing it now. Okay, so Unsolved Mysteries.

Yes. Did you, I suppose you're a little bit older than me and probably weren't as much of a scary decat. Do you have any specific Unsolved Mysteries memories of being traumatized by how terrifying it was? Well, because I can't maybe pinpoint a single one that upset me so much as a kid, but as a general concept, like I would hear the theme music to Unsolved Mysteries and I would be crying. I was so scared. I wouldn't be that scared, but it definitely like creeped me out. but it was one of the creepiest things that I liked watching. But I definitely remember one time, my dad was, my dad would sometimes, he, in the course of his job, would teach these night classes.

So it would just be my mom and the kids at home. And I remember I was being in the living room. And I don't know if my mom would have been watching Unsolved Mysteries, but like I was watching Unsolved Mysteries. and she was in the room. And all of a sudden, and the way our house was, there was an outside, like there was a, you know, storm door on the outside, on the side door and on the front. And anybody who, and then we had like an inner door, because our house is like a double, we never like rented out the top apartment because the top apartment is where my grandparents lived. But we would like keep the door to like what would normally be like, you know, the downstairs apartment

would open into the kitchen. And so that door would just be shut in the cold months because you don't want to like, you know, whatever, you want to keep the heat in. But anybody who came knocking on the door would knock on obviously the outside door. So we're sitting there. We're watching Unselfed Mysteries. I don't remember what it was about. But all of a sudden, there is a pounding knock on the inside door. Like, boom, boom, boom. And we got really scared because we were just like, or startled at the very least of like, who's here. Somebody's in the house. Somebody's like knocking on the door in the house. And it turned out to be just like this annoying girl collecting for the newspaper. You know how like when you would get a newspaper. Being very not chill about it.

Like once a month, they would, you know, come by and like collect the payment or whatever. So it was the girl who did the newspaper delivery who he didn't like. My mother did. not like. And her friend, and they were being very sort of, like, loud and obnoxious. That bitch, the paper girl. Kind of. She like, she did not like her. Um, pounding on the door. And I remember, like, we got really, like, scared of who was at the door. And it ended up being just these two and whatever we paid them. Um, but I literally remember to this day being like who's in our, like somebody's in our house and pounding on the door. And it was very, very creepy. And it was absolutely enhanced by the fact that we were watching unsolved mysteries. We would not

have been that, like, you know, head up about it if we were not watching on top of this case. See, I was definitely a scaredy cat about that. I remember, I don't remember specifics about the episode, but there was like an alien one that I, I have a mental image of, like, scary visual that could be an alien face. I definitely remember one where it was like a ghostly ghostly woman on a pathway who like people gave a ride to and then found out later that like no such woman existed or whatever like those kind of things which is like typical ghost story stuff but like that I loved I loved that shit um anytime unsolved mysteries like went back to like the 40s or 50s or whatever to start their story I was like this is it I love it um wonderful wonderful stuff

So anyway, easily my favorite part of Mumford was... Mumford, easily as traumatic to me specifically as Unsolved Mysteries was when I was a child. So I imagine that this is going to be one of those movies that has a high percentage of people going like, what movie are we talking about? Because it has no tale, it has no relevance. And despite the fact that the ensemble cast is full of actors who you know, its lead actor, Lauren Dean, is one of the, those actors who, like, even when he was working steadily, he was sort of, like, a blank. And then now- That's why he works so well in this movie. And now since then has, like, really kind of, like, mostly disappeared, not in an unsolved

mystery's way, just in a, like, stopped working kind of way. And it was also, like, it was a box office flop, but it wasn't, like, a memorable box office flop. Like, you know what I mean? So it really is a movie that has largely disappeared. Even, like, Lawrence Kasden. Lawrence Kasden is still, like, a name you hear. But, like, when was the last time he, like, directed a movie? Like... It's been a while.

I think it's the... It's not Darling Companion. That's like a dog movie. Right. But it's Diane Keaton and Kevin Klein? It is Darling Companion. Yeah. And it's not about a dog?

Is there also a darling companion movie about a dog? I think it's the two of them and a dog. Like the poster is the two of them and then there's a dog. Oh, I guess it's a dog movie. Yeah, I think he nailed it. Yeah. But this is also kind of the beginning of the end for Lawrence Kaston. Because shortly after this is Dream Catcher.

Another flop from a Stephen King novel. Yep. Mm-hmm. And then, yeah, and then Darling Companion, and that's the last feature film that he directed. Now, he was a big part of the sort of resurrection of the Star Wars. universe he did he's a credited screenwriter on multiple of the new era of star wars movies force awakens and and solo at the very least um but also as one of those people who like you find out that he like did an uncredited rewrite on something but like credited wise like he was a screenwriter

on the empire strikes back and raiders of the lost arc and return of the jedi um and it's so funny the did you uh happen to watch the trailer for mumford no they when they say like from the director of whatever. They literally say from the writer and producer of the bodyguard. What? Which is crazy to me

because why wouldn't you be like from the director of the big chill if what you're trying to sell is an ensemble comedy. But here's my theory. If you watch the trailer for Mumford, it is very, very much trying to be like

trying to capitalize on popular things of the 90s because they say from the writer producer of the bodyguard. There is a very pulp fiction sound-alike, like, very sound-alike. Very sound-like that. The button at the end of the trailer is Jason Lee being, like, doctor, you're in love with one of your patients. It's not me, is it? And it's very much this, like, chasing Amy sting at the end. And it's like, they are really trying to sell this to, like, fans of, like, hip 90s shit. And I hope none of the

people who went to see love for them. that feel extremely of its time, like the Mumford's basically like crime noir flashback feels incredibly post-pult fiction to me in like as close as Lawrence Kazden can approximate to a pulp fiction. There's also the visual thing where he like, he makes Pruitt Taylor Vince stop telling the one smutty story dream that he has. And the visual of it is like a shattering glass and like the noir scene like crumbles away from the visual. And I'm like, I really hope you didn't put a whole lot of your movies budget into that very, very cheesy looking visual effect.

You did not need that. But the movie's full of weird tonal shit. Like I think it's, yeah. I sometimes feel like, and I am as guilty of this, maybe more guilty of this than most, saying this movie had tonal problems when you're not entirely sure what to put your finger on about what you didn't like about the movie. But, like, I think very specifically this movie just does not know how to find a comedic wavelength to ride on. Like, I, the, the score often seems, and it's James Newton and Howard's score.

So, like, the guy knows what he's doing, but it often feels like the score is at odds with the story. You're never quite sure to know how seriously to take the plot of the movie, which is ultimately about... It takes like an hour for the movie to have one. Also that.

It was... I remember... Because obviously they put it in the trailer, the part where he's like, I've never been a psychologist in my life. So it's not like

they're trying to hide it in the marketing of the movie. But watching this movie, I'm like, I feel like this was... I feel like he's not a real psychologist. And as the longer the movie goes on, I'm like, maybe I was making that up

Well, he shows some ways that he is not... Of course, yes. A good or ethical one, like he's talking about his patients to another patient. So it's like, I think I'm right, but like, it's just like it's not getting there yet, so I don't know, yeah. I think when we talk about movies as being vibe-based, you hear it a lot for, like, modern horror movies. That's like, that's like a vibes-based movie. You hear it about, like, more. esoteric things.

This is like the evidence of a comedy that's mostly vibes based because I think it's trying to be this like milieu of Americana. The town is a character. The ensemble is, you know, everybody's sort of playing this very quirky type of a person. And it's trying to do this arch like Capra-esque Norman Rockwell type of version of a small American town, when that doesn't really exist in movies anymore. So it's heightened doesn't feel like the right word because it's not really like...

I keep thinking the movies on the verge of being a satire of that kind of thing, because it's playing it up so strangely. And like, you know, I don't know, like, there's a, there's a billionaire who rides a skateboard all day, and he's building a sex robot, but, like, we're supposed to find this harmless and goofy because the main character finds this harmless and goofy. And yet, it keeps cutting to Jason Lee being like, this is so creepy, right?

And it's like, yes, actually, it is. It's pretty creepy. Why isn't anybody listening to you, the creep who has made this? sex robot that this is actually creepy. See, you think that we're going to have a lot of listeners that we say, we're doing Mumford, and they're like, what are you talking about? And I

think we're going to have a lot of listeners that are like, we're doing Mumford. Oh, I remember that movie. I kind of liked it. I haven't seen it in 30 years. And now we talk about all the things that happened. I mean, I don't, I really

don't like Lawrence Caston's movies. I'll say that. With the exception of body heat. Like, body heat is... Body heat's a weird outlier for his filmography kind of too. Because it's great, right? Like, that movie at least works. And I know people can have like snags and problems with that movie.

But like, that is a functioning movie. Yeah. Whereas, like, I get that people like the Big Chill. I get why people like the Big Chill. The Big Chill isn't for us. The Big Chill was for our parents' generation. Yeah. I really don't think that movie likes women at all.

I don't like that movie. I don't like what that movie asks Glenn Close to do as an actress, not what her character agrees to do, but that it turns her into this like maladroit. I don't like the big chill. I like even less the accidental tourists. Accidental tourist I find to be very boring and cliched, yeah, yeah. And abhorrent a little bit.

We'll get into the Lawrence Cazden thing, but I think Mumford is, at the end of the day, more successful as a movie doing what it's trying to do than the movies that I really don't like from Lawrence Cazden. But I thought of two movies, a lot. I thought of Pleasantville. Okay, interesting. Pleasantville, which feels like it's more directly trying to satirize a sense. certain type of Americana. You can't miss it. You can't miss this because like it's very much you know unreal. Yeah. And like Mumford isn't even trying to go into the back door of satirizing it. Mumford is like finding the little tornado door into the cellar and it's like hanging

out in the cellar for a while before it goes upstairs. Like it's it it is but it isn't satirizing that type of thing. And then the other movie that I thought about, which is a disaster. And I don't think Mumford is anywhere near as bad as this movie, but I thought a lot about collateral beauty in that the strange tone that it's trying to go for when it's like, well, you can just, like, you have an easy out here of what you can try to be, but it's trying to strike this strange tone that I think actively works against the movie, like in the doing of that. and it makes the movie seem crazier. Yeah. I mean, we'll get to my sort of laundry list of, like, why is this movie doing this? Why is this movie not doing this? There's a lot to get into.

But, yes, so the other thing I wanted to talk about, though, before we get into the movie movie, is I was like, this movie, I felt like I remembered that this movie was fairly prompt. prominently featured in the Entertainment Weekly Fall Movie Preview of 1999. And indeed it was. A two-page splash. A two-page splash, my friend. Look at those fonts. Look at those. Oh, my God.

This was 1999. So, yeah, the watchword was crazy fonts. They also, each movie had, or at least, was it every single movie? Every movie that got, like, a write-up had a buzz-o-meter. Remember the zero? I love the buzz-ometer. Mumford had to have been like a... It got a big enough splash, but it's in September.

I'm going to say it was a five. It was a four. The buzz o meter on Mumford was a four. Now, that doesn't mean anything in isolation, but I will give you some other examples. Fight Club, what would you say the buzzometer? This would be a good quiz, actually. Nine. Eight.

Pretty good, though. Pretty good. I'm on a curve. if I'm higher than... Being John Malkovich. Buzon. Nine. A three.

Got that one wrong, Edubs. I'm just going to say a three for the bozometer. Let's see what some of these December real Oscar contenders. Oh, a good example. A movie that was scheduled to be in 1999, but was pushed to 2000, and we just talked about on this podcast. Hanging up. Hanging up.

Two-page splash. There it is. A seven. A six. A six on the buzzometer. The talented Mr. Ripley? Um, eight. Eight.

Bingo, nailed it. Snow falling on cedars. Five. A six. A six on the buzzometer. Scream three, which also, I don't think, premiered until early 2000. Yeah, that got pushed to February 2000. and um seven eight and finally girl interrupted six six exactly there we go what was american beauty

oh american beauty was september or was it october september all right because american beauty is in its second week of release uh the week that mumford we'll we'll get into it what would you guess american beauty was coming off of well this might have actually gone to print probably did. Probably doesn't reference Tiff. Yeah, because it would have been before Tiff. Yeah.

What would you guess? I mean, but it's DreamWorks. They definitely probably had some type of quote about Spielberg in there. I'm going to say it's a seven. It's an eight. I will say, and I didn't really like, the buzzometer was one of those things

that I just kind of brushed past and didn't really like take much stock in. But I remember this photo of Annette Benning. Here, I'll show it to you. She looks like she's yelling at Spacy, right? Yep. This is Annette.

depending from the house of ferocity. Yeah. In the movie, she's ranting about Buddy King. Yes. But I remember this particular write-up, because American Beauty was not a movie I had any sense of

before I saw it in the pages of Entertainment Weekly. And I went immediately to, like, I need to see this movie. I was so incredibly excited. But I want to read from you. It's not very long. So the write-up for Mumford.

So each movie also, the big splash page ones got a what's the big deal, a one-sentence summation, and what's the big deal on Mumford was the master of ensemble angst goes to see the psychologist. Before he wrote Mumford, a modest comedy along the lines of the big chill and the accidental tourist, Kazden spent a year trying to pitch the antithesis of Mumford, a thrill ride that hinged on big stars, a deluge of FX, and a Texas-sized budget. I don't know what I was thinking he muses now. I thought this process. This is terrible. This is not how I've done my best work or how I've had the most fun. So Kasden gave up and got back to his roots. Within weeks, he'd banged out Mumford, about a mysterious psychologist who rolls into a bucolic hamlet and proceeds to cure everyone of their neurotic ills. Not necessarily true. This story just sort of leapt out. This story just sort of leapt out, he says. It was something I could make for a reasonable price. It was very personal and it had to do with where my life was at because it's about second chances.

He gave the lead role to Dean, a relatively unknown actor who'd had small parts in Gattaca, an enemy of the state, because I wanted someone who the audience didn't know anything about, says Kaston. Dean's psychologist has an answer for everyone's lives, says Davis, Hope Davis, who plays a chronically fatigued patient. He really listens to people, and he tells them the truth. Shot amid the vineyards of California's Sonoma County, the production sounds like a cure all itself. It was a huge vacation, Davis size. There are spas and mineral baths everywhere. We all just kind of soaked in ate grapes. That sounds like the best part of the movie, by the way.

What won't be so easy is marketing a film bereft of big stars or a high concept hook. Quote, Larry's films all revolve around the subtle connections between people, Davis offers, but it's not easy to put into words. So already, they're like... We don't know what to do this thing. We're like, don't be surprised if this movie isn't a big hit. I don't think that write-up gets at all. to the lunacy of the movie. It also does not at all approach the fact that he's a liar,

which makes me feel like the trailer that I watched was cut probably after some very troubling tracking that showed that people had no interest in seeing just like a movie about a nice psychologist in a small town. So they had to be like, oh, but there's conflict. Here's conflict. I don't think it works either way. I think, whatever, let's get past this plot description.

Yeah, because I'm like, there's things that I want to talk about from that blurb. The only thing that I think we should say before we, like, get into the meat and potatoes at the episode is I understand you have Lawrence Kastin making a movie, but to compare this immediately to the Big Chill and the accidental tourists, two movies that, like, this is nothing. Well, there are better comparison points than the bodyguard. So I'll save that. Which he only co-wrote. Co-wrote and produced, yes. Joe, would you like to tell our listeners about our Patreon? Yeah, we have a Patreon.

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uh, real fagged up coffee. I really need to, I need to throw some, some cold foam on mine or, Can I station coffee is better than, like, church coffee. Girl. Church coffee, which is always like two grains of coffee and a gallon of water.

I'm going to tell you two things about church coffee that I don't truck with. So, one being church, the other being coffee. So, yeah, anyway, $5 a month. Go to patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. And join us, won't you? Gary, we're here talking about Mumford, not marketing. Mumford, but the motion picture. Calm down, Carrie Mulligan.

We're not talking about your man. Wouldn't it be great if we were one of those, like, we are only famous guest podcasts, and we were like Carrie Mulligan. Talk to us about the movie Mumford. Mumford with Carrie Mulligan. That floats into Harry Mulligan. She's my favorite.

I love Carrie. First of all, I love her as an actress, but also she's like my favorite baritone. Um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, Um, written and directed by Lawrence Kasden. Yes. Starring Lauren Dean, Hope Davis. Jason Lee, Mary MacDonald. David Pamer. Guess what? Listener. Ching. Character, actor six timers club. We're doing David Pamer today. Oh, yeah. Martin Short, Pruitt Taylor Vance, Alphrey Woodard.

I believe it's Pruitt Taylor Vince, right? I mean, I had been getting it wrong all these years. Maybe I timed it wrong. Hold on. Alphrey Witterd, you know that makes us happy. Hell, yeah. It is dense. Yeah. Dana Ivy, Jane Adams, Ted Dantin, Kevin Teague,

Jason Ritter, baby Jason Ritter. Jason Ritter has never been younger. He's so, he's very baby. Baby. A very Vanessa Carlton, Elizabeth Moss, and the aforementioned Robert Stack. Now, when you say Blink and you'll miss them, it's usually a figure of speech. I'm pretty sure I turned my head for half a second and did miss the entirety of Elizabeth Moss in this movie.

She rats out Mary McDonald for being addicted to online shopping. Yeah, which then you find out by, you know, looking at it. But like Elizabeth Moss in this movie is dressed like she absolutely has Paula Cole's album. Yeah, yes, real. Did you notice, by the way, that the one guy, the guy who plays fake Dr. Mumford's IRS investigator problematic partner

was from jury duty the fake The Bali Shore movie No, the Amazon series With the Yes, which I should have watched And people liked Yeah.

Oh, have you not seen it? Oh, I don't think it's on it anymore, right? Oh, is it not? No, I feel like I ducked in and watched that on Amazon. Amazon hasn't purged things, so Check it out. Well, I mean like they didn't continue. No, which I'm kind of glad about because everything that I heard about that show

was like, we found like the one person in all of America who this would have worked for, where like it literally was genuinely like the most guileless and also like kindest person to do this for. Or like it wouldn't have worked if the person was any more cynical or suspicious or, like, you know, selfish or anything like that. So I'm glad that they kept it with one season. But, yeah, highly recommend it. Anyway. Mumford opened wide.

The final weekend of September 1999. First place of the box office, opening against it, double jeopardy. Double ditches. This had Oscar Buzz episode. Very early on. Go back and listen to us on Double Jeopardy. Very early. Probably the definition of queening out.

Yes, yeah. We're very pro Ashley Judd on this show. Blue Streak, Martin Lawrence film Blue Streak in its second weekend was in second place. In its eighth weekend, the sixth sense in third place, still wrecking up the dollars. Still ruling the roost, yep. Kevin Costner playing baseball in for love of the game in fourth place. And then in fifth place, in only 429 theaters. the second weekend of American Beauty.

I think it's safe to say some of Mumford getting buried is American Beauty being so immediately ascendant. American Beauty getting $5.9 million off of 429 theaters is pretty good. At that time, yeah. It's pretty good, yeah. Also opening this week, but opening better than Mumford, is Robin Williams in Jacob the Liar. None of my business.

A film that is... Bad movie. None of my business. Yep. Um, I was just on Hotcast talking about Blue Moon. Hi, Kyle. Um, but, uh, somehow as much as we do get a field on this show, we ended up talking about bad Robin Williams movies and how much we loved Robin Williams, but like so many of his movies are bad. Yeah. I'm going to break your brain for a second. Did you know that the real Patch Adams is still alive? No. The real Patch Adams is still alive. That man's got to be like, 99 years old. Yeah. And then we looked up pictures.

Is he still practicing the medicine of laughter? Is he still healing people with clown noses and a little soft shoe routine? Very, very good question. It was the first time I'd ever seen a photo of the real Patch Adams. I made a joke that he looks like he has at least five body piercings, none of which are on his face or ears. The real Patch Adams has big the real filaminally energy, I feel like. that's um what an evil movie patch adams objectively evil movie i will say um the uh our i had a college professor who showed us patch adams in the context of um humor and communication so it was the

idea of utilizing humor um in whatever whatever mass communication you're doing and so that was obviously an example and i remember even at the time thinking and being like where Where are the jokes? What's funny about this? Yeah, I remember being like, oh, like, for my grade, I am going to go along to get along and pretend that I find this movie as charming and funny as enchanting as my professor does. But I remember even at that time just being like, I don't know. I don't know, dog.

And this was only like maybe a few years after that movie came out. So, anywho. Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description for the motion picture Mumford? Not a bit. Let's go. All right. Your 60-second plot description for the motion picture, Mumford starts now. We are in small town, I guess, Oregon, and the town is called Mumford, and also Lauren Dean plays Dr. Mumford. What's his first name? Don't worry about it. He's a newly popular psychologist. He's sort of pulling a lot of the patients from the other established doctors. Pruitt Taylor Vince is one of his patients. He's having weird.

sexual fantasies where he's not in them, but Holt McAllenie is, and he is a noir person. Zoe de Chanel is a teenager and she's depressed. Mary McDonald is a mom, and she's a compulsive shopper. Jason Lee is a billionaire who has no friends. Hope Davis has Epstein Barr, and Martin Short is a lawyer and a narcissist. And when Lauren Dean is like, get on my office, I don't like you. The guy is like, I start to suspect that you are a fraud. And so he goes to the other two shrinks in town.

and it's like, let's expose this fraud. Is he a fraud? Well, actually, yes, he is. 10 seconds. He's actually never been a psychologist, and he confesses this to Jason Lee and his billionaire, billionaire self. And he also falls in love with Hope Davis. So the job of extricating himself from his profession seems advantageous if he can start dating

Hope Davis. Also, Alphrey Woodard is in town, and she's the diner waitress. And Lauren Dean hooks up, Dr. Mumford hooks up Jason Lee with Alphrey Woodard, because they're like his two best friends in town. So that's cool. He does not out himself as a fraud to Hope Davis. In fact, Robert Stack does it on the television program Unsolved Mysteries. And he and Hope Davis eventually decide they want to see each other,

but not before Lauren Dean confesses all and goes to minimum security prison for a little while to pay for his crimes of fraudulence, the end. 42 seconds over for a movie with. No plot. No plot, but like, lots of... Until the last half hour. Lots of fake plot. Lots of things that probably should have been plots.

Which I'm fine with, you know, I like a movie that is more local color than plot. Except I wanted the local color to be more colorful. Like, I wished... All of a sudden you get to the end, and it's like Pruitt Taylor Vince and Mary McDonald are, like, making sexize at each other. Yeah, like half of his patience, scare quotes are sex freaks. Right. Zoe Dishonel gets paired off. Well, this movie is sort of...

And I feel like it's, it's, I feel like it's kind of cheap. It's just like, oh, we're not going to, we're going to end by like pairing everybody off. And, you know, he, Alphrey Woodard gets paired off with Jason Lee. He gets paired off with Hope Davis. Zoe Descanal's paired off with Jason Ritter. And it's just like, well, isn't that nice for everybody, I guess, except for Martin Short, who is too awful to love. And, but even Martin Short is like, all of a sudden by the end has, like, been charmed enough to, like, be his lawyer in court and, like, get him a, a reduced sentence or whatever.

And I'm like, you're, didn't, weren't you trying to like take him down like two scenes ago? What's going on here? Um, so. I do kind of enjoy the Martin Short stuff because it's like the, of course, this movie's conception of a real therapist is like, yuppy, stodgy, square elitist. Because, like, he, Pamer and Jane asked. Adams are like, what's like the name of one of those, like, have you been injured in an accident?

Yes, ambulance chasers. That's what they look like. They're the psychological equivalent of ambulance chasers. Yes, exactly. Well, and also, like, they're, you know, they're by the book. See, this movie indulges in a thing that I really don't like, which is the idea. And it's because, honestly, it's because everybody in L.A. at this time especially. Everybody in L.A. at this time was in therapy in a way that, like, the rest of the country

wasn't. But with that familiarity bred a sense of like, I could do this better. And there's just this sense throughout this movie of like, you could do a better job at being a therapist if you just sat there and listened and gave good sense, practical advice that anybody with, you know, half a lick of sense would give. And it's like, and, and because the movie does, he is a fraud, but the movie does sort of take the attack that, like, the only thing he's bad at in terms of being a therapist is wanting to date Hope Davis. Like, that's the only thing he really fails at. He also talks about his other patients with his patients. But the

movie generally feels like this isn't that big of a deal. Like, the movie never really sees this as much of a betrayal as, you know what I mean? It's just sort of like... It also sees nobody's problems as real problems, too, which, like... Because they're the... Merri McDonald is a shopping addict, which is a real problem. Chris, all they need to do is talk to somebody and have them listen. Like, that's what this movie...

Right. And it is... And needs them to be blunt with them. And the movie, I don't know if necessarily the movie's actively insidious, but it does contribute to a thing that I think... popular entertainment has done, which has slowly sort of, through these very well-intentioned stories, have endorsed the fiction that, like, real expertise doesn't matter when stacked up to good common sense. You know what I mean? And so, like, literally I wrote down,

this is how we got RFK. And because, like, I'm not blaming Lawrence Kasden for RFK. But, like, This is the, you know, it's the little domino, like, you know, Dr. Mumford, yeah. Dr. Mumford helps out the people of Mumford, Oregon, without having a degree in psychology. And then the big domino is, uh, measles outbreak kills 40 million people or whatever. Like, that's, uh, that's the big domino. And I'm sorry, Lawrence Kasden, but like, you're going to have to own your part in this. This movie is responsible for, uh, you. Yeah, for the next, for the next pandemic.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? You understand what I'm saying. All that being said, I don't think this is anywhere near one of the worst movies we've ever covered. I think it's just not successful. It's deeply strange, though. It's so strange.

The, like, sequence where he gives him a box of, like, mid-century porn. Yeah, Prune-Taylor Vince gets a box of mid-century porn. Yeah, he sure does. You know what movie I thought about in terms of the not goodness of it? Dr. T and the Women. I think that that's a similar... Robert Altman's Dr. T. and the Women. A clear comedic tone that it's trying to achieve and never achieving it.

I think that's more of a disaster than this is. It is, but I do feel like there are similarities in terms of... I think that's another movie that wants its main... character to be a little more sort of, not necessarily whimsical, but just this person around which there is this flurry of, you know, neurotic activity, right? And he's at the center of it, and what am I to do? And in this, it's like, I'm at the center of this small town where everybody has a problem. And here I am, without my psychology degree, and I'm going to try and solve him. The other thing is, this movie, when he confesses on this hillside to Jason Lee, and I want to talk

about the Jason Lee character sort of in more depth. Because sometimes I think he's the best part of the movie, and sometimes I think he's the worst part of the movie. Well, that sounds like a Jason Lee performance. But, so that's, the movie does kind of just like, grind to a halt for about 15 minutes to tell the backstory of Dr. Mumford, whose real name we never find out for reasons of whimsy other than nothing else. Like, there's no real good reason why we never find out his actual name. Where, like, Robert Stack should be saying that name several times in that reenactment on Unself Mysteries, and he just doesn't. But that takes forever. It stops. It's literally like that scene in a perfect getaway, except the scene in a

perfect getaway fucking rules where have you seen that movie with Timothy Oliphant

and Amelia Yovovich this is the movie you keep trying to get me to watch and I've

never seen I'm not going to tell you then but like there's a point in that movie

that does the same thing where it's just like it stops the movie to tell

you what's really going on via extended flashback and the extended flashback

and this is highly stylized too so that it feels very like like

like a pulp paperback, you know. And he's narrating the whole thing. And it's, you keep waiting for either him or the movie to acknowledge that like, or for Jason Lee to register that like, oh, I'm suddenly alone on a hillside with this guy who's like kind of two clicks away from telling me that he like murdered a whole bunch of people. Like, he doesn't really, like, that doesn't really get to the point, but, like, he's talking about how he was, like, this, like, coke-addicted, like, unscrupulous FBI investigator who, like, got caught up in these, like, you know, investigations where, like, people ended up dead, and he was not exactly corrupt, but, like, not exactly by the book either. And, like, you keep waiting for something to happen where, like, and then I shot the guy.

And it doesn't quite go there. But like, if I'm Jason Lee, like, I understand that like this is a comedy and nobody has to behave rationally or whatever. But if I'm Jason Lee and I have $3 billion and this person who befriended me under now I'm realizing to be incredibly false pretenses has me isolated on the hillside and is now telling me that he's got a secret life. Criminally false pretenses. He's pretending to be. Yeah, a doctor. Has me isolated and now is telling me about his secret life as a coke-addicted under, like, unscrupulous investigator. Like, I am absolutely waiting for him to pull, like, a weapon on me at that point.

Like, I just am. There is no moment at any point in this movie where anybody registers that there is a darkness to this that is, that would frighten a rational person. You know what I mean? And this is what I mean about the tone. I'm like, it's too, it's, his past is too grimy for the tone to be like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Unless you're really going for something archly comedic with which the movie doesn't also achieve that either. No, I don't think it is trying to be super arch.

I think it's trying to be whimsical is not the right word. I think it's trying to have a very light tone. Yes. But it's, it's adjacent to Tweed, but it's not Tweet. It's trying to have a light tone in a way that often feels like it's not paying attention to itself. Because if it was paying attention to itself, it would know that like the tone should not be this light because what's going on? If this was a super self-aware movie, it would be ten times more annoying. Agreed. Agreed.

See, this is a complaint I hate to. ever make about a movie, but here I am making it about this movie, making it again about something. I think both in the tone and what it's actually trying to do in terms of character, it would make so much more sense as a TV show. Like, this is what I imagine pushing daisies is like, I've never seen pushing daisies. Pushing dais is a lot more actively whimsical than this. Like people are breaking into, they might be giant songs and pushing daisies and stuff like that. Well, and it's like, It's, you know, it's a gay guy away from being desperate housewives, right? Like, if you have a gay guy making this, it's desperate housewives.

Here's the version. I will also say, a more sort of overtly ha-ha comedic version of this is kind of my cousin Vinnie. Where he's constantly trying to stay one step of Judge Fred Gwynn, who is almost figuring out that he's not a license. since, you know, attorney, right? And that is obviously, like, much, much more of a, like, broad comedy or whatever. But I would say it also is a lot more successful, obviously. Like, my cousin Vinnie is a, you know, a, you know, mainstream comedy classic, and Mumford is not.

And it also relies on archetypes and stereotypes, whereas I don't feel like Mumford has that either. Like, it's not the type of characters it's going. going for, it's not in a language that already exists that helps us understand the tone of the thing we're watching and the people that we're watching. And that, I think, is kind of commendable. There is a certain level of originality here, even if it doesn't pull off what is trying to do. I also just feel like, I think with a couple tweaks, I think if bringing out the ensemble a little bit more really, really helps this movie, in part because,

is Lauren Dean just isn't incredibly dynamic of an actor. So I think leaning more heavily on the ensemble helps you out there. Anytime Hope Davis is on screen, I'm entranced. You know what I mean? She's incredibly winning in this movie. Yeah, I like her in this movie. Alphrey Woodard. I like Lauren Dean in this movie.

I feel like that kind of unplaceable, unassuming quality about him is why he works in this part. I certainly don't think any problem with this movie is any actor's fault. No, I think the cast is generally quite good. But again, it, I don't know. I feel like I want, I feel like take advantage of that more than you have this really good ensemble. Like, have them interact with each other a little more. I will tell you a worse.

I'm fucking saying, it's like Lawrence Caston, are you trying to torture me? You have a passion fish reunion here and you don't. Go for it. I didn't even think about that, Chris. I know. That's fucking crazy. The fact that there was a passion fish reunion and I didn't even realize it because they're not in any scenes together is fucking lunacy, man. Weren't they also in Grand Canyon?

Grand Canyon, I think, maybe exists less than any movie that was nominated for an above-the-line Oscar nomination. I want to re-watch that movie because obviously that movie is very much exists in the, that was a, that was, what, 1991. And then the Los Angeles riots are the year after. So I remember that movie sort of feeling like instantly becomes outdated because it tries to deal with on some level race and class politics among a bunch of Los Angeles yuppies, you know, essentially, the 30-something set of Los Angeles. And it certainly has a cast full of people. that I love, including Alphrey Woodard and Mary McDonnell and Mary Louise Parker and Steve Martin and whatnot, and Kevin Klein, I believe, is also in that movie. And I don't know. I imagine it's not going to be a movie that I'm going to love, but I'll be fascinated by it. I, you know, by the time capsuliness of it. Much, much more, though. It's just it has no foothold in the culture. Even like, it's a, it's an original screenplay nominee. It's also Lawrence Casson's last Oscar nominee. It's also a movie that does exist, for me at least, as a VHS box and blockbuster video, where I would always walk past that and be like, oh, it's the lady from fried green tomatoes, and it's the lady from sneakers, and it's the, you know, all these people that I, Steve Martin and all these people I knew from other things.

Yeah, it seemed like a movie for grownups. Okay, maybe this is our avenue into really doing the Casden thing. Okay. Lawrence Kasden nominated for three screenplay Oscars Never director but never won any of those screenplay Oscars As we mentioned The two Star Wars sequels

And Raiders of the Lost Arc He's one of the credited screenwriters On each of those movies So like this is his Breaking into The movie business I don't know what his relationship Would have been with like Lucas

or anything that he got those jobs They were like, I mean, I think they were just sort of part of the same generation of filmmakers in general. I don't know, like specifically, I don't know. Was the big chill, the big chill was a best picture nominee. So if Kazan didn't get a best director nomination, who was, let's see, terms of endearment, both, won both of those awards. The dresser was nominated for picture and director for Peter Yates. Tender Mercies was nominated for picture and director for Bruce Beresford And then the Big Chill and the Right Stuff, Philip Kaufman's The Right Stuff, were nominated for Best Picture

And then they were replaced in the director field by Ingmar Bergman for Fanny and Alexander Should have won. And Mike Nichols for Silkwood. One of Mike Nichols is, I believe, four nominations for Best Director? Certainly one for Yeah, four. I think it's four. It's Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Graduate, which he wins.

The graduate which he wins. Silkwood and then Working Girl, I think, are the four. Big Chill is also nominated for Glenn Close and supporting. Yes. I hate what that movie asks of her. Her middle of three in a row, I believe. It's World According to Garp in 82, the Big Chill in 83. and then the natural

where she gets nominated for standing up in the middle distance for 84. Before the big chill, though, he has body heat, which is this breakout hit. If you want to learn more about body heat, I always recommend the, you must remember this.

Yes. Erotic 80s series. Karina Longworth goes into depth about the making of that movie and the reception of that movie. He gets a writer's guilt nomination for his screenplay for that but that movie gets no Oscar nominations or I think it's I think it's nothing like not even like a cinematography or anything which is kind of

crazy when you watch it yeah um Kathleen Turner's also on the bubble for that movie though like much like would happen for Sharon Stone and basic instinct you know there's a lot of sexism around the reception for that performance she only ever got one nomination right for Peggy Sue got married Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's too bad. Um, one of the greats, Kathleen Turner. Um, so the big chill happens, uh, Tiff People's Choice Award winner, the big chill. I mean, that makes sense, right? It's a movie that, in many ways, it's the 1980s, Forrest Gump, in that, um, it's a movie that spoke very specific. to the boomer generation and also had a hugely like blockbuster soundtrack full of hits from

you know, in the case of the big chill specifically it's Motown. The Forest Gump soundtrack is much more of a survey of the, you know, decades of the 60s and 70s. Yeah, hugely popular. After the big chill,

he makes Silverado, which was a Western when Westerns were no longer popular and it actually was profitable against two Oscar nominations in Sound and Score. Yep, Kevin Klein, Kevin Costner, some other folks.

Danny Glover, I think, is in that. Have never seen it. Never saw Silverado. Have not seen it either. Then the accidental tourists wins Gina Davis, her Oscar. Nominated in Picture and Screenplay again. wins neither. So who replaces him

for best director that year? That is 80. Is that also a year where there's two? I think it is. So Rain Man wins picture and director for Barry Levinson. Dangerous liaisons. Is nominated only for picture. Only in picture. Because Stephen Frears did not get nominated. Mississippi Burning is picture and director for Ellen Parker. Working Girl is picture and director for Mike Nichols. So yeah. So

where it's accidental tourists and dangerous liaisons are replaced by you want to take a guess is there another non-English language film no oh interesting uh last temptation of christ yes martin's christ has the only nomination for the last temptation of christ and then the other one is for a movie that stars a lawrence casden regular as the is it hector babenko nope it's uh kevin kline plays the only American, no, not the only American, because there's another American. Oh, it's a fish called Wanda. A fish called Wanda. Yes, Charles Crichton for a fish called Wanda.

One of the more interesting, fascinating lone director nominations in that normally loan director nominees are for these very sort of director forward, huge undertaking, last temptation

of Christ kind of things, or kind of non-American Artures, your Mike Lees, your, you know, whatever. Charles Pryton, as a director of a, you know, fairly mainstream comedy doesn't really fall into any of those buckets. But good for a best director nomination for a comedy, because those are genuinely rare.

For that year to have two comedies get best director nominations between that and Working Girl is pretty good, you know? That's pretty interesting. 88's a very interesting Oscar year, honestly. Maybe we should find some way to do that year. Between the best actress, you know, race that was incredibly competitive was essentially like four really solid contenders, plus Merrill Streep is your fifth. Like, it's an interesting year, just in general. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway. Lawrence Kasten's next movie is the Kevin Klein comedy, I Love You to Death. Nothing really of note there, but then the next year follows it up with Grand Canyon. I remember liking I Love You to Death as when I saw it when I was younger. I remember thinking it was pretty funny, but like I have not seen it in years, years and years and years. Still not the ending to the Oscar story for Lawrence Kasden because it makes another Western in Wyatt Earp. It gets a cinematography nomination. I'm going to say a pity nomination.

Like that movie was... It's Owen Royceman, though. He's kind of a legend. Right. But like that movie. was such a flop and was such a loser in the face-off with Tombstone in terms of like what what movie about Wyatt Earp is going to be remembered. In kind of every way too, because no one talks about Wyatt Earp and now Tombstone is like

a cult classic. Tombstone fucking rules. And Wyatt Earp was kind of universally seen as this stodgy flop of a thing that got sort of wrapped up in, like, I think some people probably to this day believe Kevin Costner directed it because it got so wrapped up in the narrative of failure that encompassed Waterworld and the Postman that, like, people don't, I think the only thing that people really talked about in any way complimentary was Dennis Quaid's performance as Doc Holliday because he lost a whole bunch of weight to play that role.

Even then, that's not the better remembered Doc Holiday performance. Like, Val Kilmer in Tombstone is, like, legendary. Head and shoulders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. After Wyatt Earp, he makes French Kiss, the romantic comedy with Kevin Klein and Meg Ryan. And then it's Mumford. French Kiss is another one where, like, this was Meg Ryan hot on the heels of when Harry met Sally and Sleepless in Seattle. And I remember French Kiss

people being excited for it because it was another Meg Ryan romantic comedy and it's not that people hated it but I think people didn't really quite know what to make of it. It wasn't quite up to, I mean, it didn't have Nora Ephron right in the screenplay, I'll say that.

So that was a... Lawrence Gaston also hasn't really done the romantic comedy. I mean... I mean, that's a big problem with The Accidental Tourist. And I know that's based on a novel and whatever, but like... And it's more dramatic to...

That's what I mean. It should be more lightly comedic. And the problem that I have... The accidental tourist is in... You've seen that a lot more recently than I do. Like, what is... Go into that. What is so insufferable about...

It's just a movie about a shitty guy. Yeah. And like... Who's cheating on his wife with Gina Davis and justifying it. Yeah. And it's like, isn't it so hard when you cheat on your wife? Like, isn't it so hard on you? Who's played by...

Kathleen Turner, who doesn't deserve that, yeah. And it's also just like, I don't like William Hurd, man. Well, I know. I feel like, I don't, I mean, I've heard all of the stories about William Hurd being a real asshole to people. But like... Not just a real asshole, but he's like, you know, abused his wife, etc. I don't think I realize that. Marley Matlin has said things happened between the two of them.

I knew that that was not a happy relationship. I didn't realize it was. physically abusive. Well, that's awful. Um, anyway. What are performances we like in Mumford? I like quite a few of them. Um, I really like, in their limited way, Alphrey Woodard, and I really like Hope Davis. And I really find myself kind of charmed, like I said, by Jason Lee, even though sometimes it feels like he doesn't quite know what he's doing. That's the Jason Lee experience, though. It's like, this guy is so... I think Jason Lee is generally around this period

quite underrated because this comes... I think he's the most late 90s actor. I think that's true. Even though what's so funny is of like, what was the vibe of American movies in the late 90s? It's Jason Lee. Well, that's why I think the trailer kind of leans on that

a little bit. So Jason Lee, one of the things that's interesting about him sort of skateboarding all over town as his character is like that was his thing was he was a skateboarder who like found his way into movies, gets, you know, essentially made famous by getting cast in Kevin Smith's mall rats and then sort of becomes a member of the Kevin Smith troop for a while. I feel like as the years went on, I think, and he got like, my name is Earl and stuff like that, which I think is interesting

as like he had such a like long tail that went through the a aughts because of my name is Earl. But, you know, as problematic as chasing Amy can be, and his parts of chasing Amy are among the more problematic because his character is like overtly bigoted. And that's part of the thing. But also, his character is undoubtedly incredibly charismatic, in part because Jason Lee is, I think, incredibly charismatic. But that's one of the things that I find to be really, really. compelling and interesting about that movie. He's also around that time, like, they try to make a go of Jason Lee as like a comedic lead around that time.

He's in that movie Kissing a Fool, which is a romantic comedy love triangle with him and David Schwimmer, and I genuinely don't remember who the other. actresses. And that doesn't really like, that doesn't take. So what he ends up settling into towards the end of the 90s, early 2000s, is these kind of second or third banana roles that I think kind of work for him. I think he's great and almost famous. Like, even...

I was going to bring up almost. Even allowing for the fact that, like, I love pretty much everything about that movie, I think what's not a perfect performance in all most famous. He's kind of tremendous in that movie, playing a perfect foil to what Crude Up is doing. And I also find him to be, for as much as I find almost everything about Vanilla Sky to be fascinatingly flawed, like, his character, his performance really kind of like stands out to me as one of the things that I really like about that movie. Oh, God, he's also... I haven't seen him in a while. It would be very interesting to see him do, like, have some small comeback doing something atypical.

Well, you know what? He's spent much of the last, much of, like, at least the 2010's doing. More Kevin Smith movies? No, he was in all the Elevin in the Chipmunks movies. He's Dave Seville in all the Alvin in the Chipmunks movies, of which there are, I believe, four, maybe five. He'll come back and do the odd, like, Jay and Silent Bob movie, but I don't think he's done, like, the other Kevin Smith stuff. He's not like Jason Mews, who's, like, therefore, all of them.

Like, he was in Jay and Silent Bob reboot in 2019, but I don't think he shows up in, like... He's not in, like, yoga hosers. No, he's in clerks too, apparently. No, he's not in... He's got, like, a cameo in Jersey Girl, but that's, like, 0.4. He's not in yoga hosers. He's not in Tusk. He's not in, you know, a bunch of other stuff.

He did, as I said, my name is Earl. which was 2005 to 2009, won more Emmy Awards than you think, not him, but like that show, won more Emmy Awards than you think it did. He did a TV show, he did 20 episodes of a TV show called Memphis Beat, that he starred with Mumford's own,

Alfry Woodard, a TNT series, they know drama, a show about Dwight Hendricks, played by Jason Lee, a police detective assigned to the General Assignment Division of the Memphis Police Department who loves his mother, the blues, his city, and Elvis Presley,

and calls himself the keeper of Memphis. His passionate devotion to his hometown is offset by his relaxed approach to his job, an attitude that frustrates by the book Lieutenant Tanya Rice, Alfry Woodard, his new boss. Holy shit, that sounds awful. I really hope he made a lot of money off of that.

Can I tell you who else was in this show? Jason Lee Alphrey Woodard, DJ Qualls, as Officer Davy Sutton. Not T.J. Qualls. And Celia Weston as the mother whom Jason Lee loves very much. What network was this on, TNT? TNT, sir, from 2010 to 2011. A grand total of two seasons of 10 episodes apiece. The show is Memphis Beat.

Gary's Get at us if you watch Memphis Beat. What awards? He was an Independent Spirit Award nominee for Chasing Amy. He was nominated for the Golden Globe and the Screen Actors Guild and the Teen Choice Award for My Name is Earl, Teen Choice Award and Kids Choice Award, and a Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Supporting Actor for Alvin and the Chipmunks, The Road Chip, which I believe is the third one. No, the fourth. Sorry, the fourth and final, final. Come on, pull the other leg. Final installment.

There will be no final installment of the Elven in the Shipmong series. The road chip, though, was his last Alvin in the Shipmong series. So anyway, Jason Lee, yeah, I think he's tasked with playing, obviously, a real contradictory character, where he is, you know, just a regular guy from small town mum. who invented the fastest modem in history and now owns a tech company that employs most of the town. And because of that, he can't, he had no friends growing up. And now everybody wants to be his friend or to date him and he can't trust anybody's motives because he's, you know, he's everybody's boss in town and he's, you know, wealthy and all this. So he essentially...

Today, the town of Mumford is a data center and has no water supply. Also, his character's name is Skip Skipperton, which is just incredibly dumb. He's seemingly a really nice, kind of, like, well, definitely socially awkward. He presents as dim, even though you know he's not because he's, like, technically genius. Lawrence Kaston is kind of inventing the in-cell, but it's, in, like, the kindest way possible. He's sort of inventing the, like, the well-meaning sweetie-in-cell stereotype. But he is also, like, he creates, he's at least endeavoring to create a sex robot and has, like, a lab where he's, like, got parts of this female sex robot.

Essentially, yeah, sex, yes. Again, everybody in this movie is a sex freak. And he has, he has the sense to know that this is all very creepy. And once he, like, makes a genuine human connection with Elfrey Woodard, he does decide to stop making sex robots. So, you know, I think ultimately this is a good-hearted person, but he's so full of these, like, odd contradictions. It's like, it's low-key an incredibly difficult role to task Jason Lee with playing, I will say. It's the most complex role in the movie by a decent margin, even far more complex, honestly, than Dr. Mumford. I mean, I feel like Hope Davis is the other person who has a lot to...

I think that's probably true. To work with. You're right to say that she's just like, you kind of cling to her for dear life whenever she's on screen, because she is really wonderful in this movie. She's kind of the version of the movie that I think the movie probably wanted to be, which is... Yeah, she's striking the right comedic tone that I think the rest of the movie is struggling to do. The kind of thing where it's like, she can say something and it can be very funny, but like it's okay, you know, she as the performer doesn't care if you laugh at it or not. Right.

I think there are other characters who are drawn... far more broadly, and I think to the movie's detriment, there's the whole section with Ted Danson playing Mary MacDonald's awful husband that is written and I would say performed. Like, I'm not going to let Ted fully off of the hook, even though I love Ted Danson. There's no nuance or subtlety or any, like this man is just the living worst, just absolutely like smoking his cigar and, you know, speaking in these. like awful business cliches that he doesn't even get right about like, you know, when you're on your deathbed, you know, uh, you're always going to wish that you like, you know, enjoyed life more

or, or whatever. Like, um, it's, he doesn't even say it like that well. Um, and Lauren Dean's like, I think the, the phrase is, you never wish you spent more time at the office. And he's like, ah, whatever the phrase is. I don't mind being at the office. It's just like, oh, God, everything about you is awful. Um, that I think doesn't serve. the movie all that super well. It's not like we weren't going to be sympathetic to Mary MacDonald anyway. It's Mary MacDonald. Like, she can do that.

I don't know. I sort of got hung up on that. Pruitt Taylor Vince is kind of asked to be just a sex creep. Yeah. I thought that he was the ultimate villain in 8mm,

but I think it's identity. It's identity. 8mm, the ultimate villain, The ultimate villain is Chris Bauer. Well, not the ultimate villain. The ultimate villain is... There's a lot of, like, sub-villains. Because, like, Gandalfini's in it, and Chris Bauer is, like, the guy in the gimp suit. But I think the ultimate villain of 8mmeter...

Hold on. Hold, please. It's... It's not Peter Stormair. It is Peter Stormair, isn't it? No, because, like... Uh... It's the guy in the gimp suit, I think, who he's, like, trying to figure out who... Well, that's definitely...

I think I've only seen that movie once, and I never need to see that. Hold on a second. Oh, it is. I guess you're right. I guess it is. Yes, it's Chris. That is Chris Bauer. You are thinking of identity, though.

The thing about Pruitt Taylor vince is there is such an essential sweetness at the center of that man that every time he gets cast as playing somebody who's just a gross creep. I feel like, what a waste. I think you saw Superman, right, the summer? The new Superman? No. Okay. He plays Clark Kent's father.

And I remember thinking when I first saw the trailer, because I was very sort of skeptical about this whole endeavor. And James Gunn is not, you know, I don't begrudge James Gunn anything, but he's never been, like, my favorite filmmaker. And I remember when I saw that they cast Pruitt Taylor Vince as Clark Kent's dad and saw that little clip of him in the trailer, I'm like, oh, that was my first sort of sign that like, oh, this might, they might actually be on to something very interesting. And he's so incredibly endearing in that movie and is just like really knocks out the like very brief time he is in that he's in that movie for. while also the fact that, like, he can play, like, incredibly, like, awful slash terrifying people and other things. He's in that movie The Devil's Candy that was directed by, oh, who's that horror filmmaker, who I all have been fine. Rob Zombie? No.

Sean Byrne. Sean Byrne, who made The Loved Ones, and then this year made that movie Dangerous Animals. Yes, he's Australian, which always makes me feel like, oh, God, like, what am I in for? But The Devil's Candy is a movie about Ethan Embry and Sherry Appleby, and they have a kid who, like, move into this, like, country home with a barn, and that, like, weird bad shit is happening inside the house, like, spiritually. like the devil exists in the house and like Ethan Embry who is like a sort of like remember how like in that movie um with Jessica Chastain where she's like a rocker chick Mama Mama yes so Ethan Embry is also like you know a metal guy who like now has settled down with a wife and kid but then he like goes to like do his art in the barn like paint

paintings and that's where like the devil takes control of him so he ends up like painting these like horribly like like just dark and ominous looking things. But he's so fucking hot in like that movie. And then Prueh Taylor Vince is like the loner living in the nearby motel who also gets possessed by the devil who has who like tries to like who then like becomes a serial killer and he's so terrifying, which makes the movies where he shows his like inner sweetness I think so much more compelling. Anyway, I really love Prueh Taylor.

Vince is the, is the, and he shows up all the time, all the time in movies. It's just like, you know, he's, there he is. Uh, not enough for Alphrey Woodard or Mary MacDonald to do. But in the not enough for them to do, for her to do, I think Alphrey Woodard is, uh, it's like, oh, thank God. So, she's so welcome. She's so compelling. I love her so much. She's just essentially, I feel like she's kind of striking the comedic tone, though she's not really asked to do. anything too like odd. No, she's kind of just like

she's a piece of normalcy. She's probably the most normal person in this movie. She's the only one who's not his patient. So she doesn't have like that degree of like, you know, that wall between them essentially. She's just sort of his sounding board.

And for a second there, you get the feeling that like, oh, maybe he's, they're going to end up together. because they have, like, really good chemistry. They have really good friend chemistry. But, yeah, she's incredibly beguiling in this movie. Like, it's, I've always found Elfrey Wooder to be an incredible actress and still do. We love her.

But I love a movie that just lets her be, like, gorgeous and beguiling. Well, but also just, like, what a catch. A compelling person. This, this goddess behind the, you know, the diner counter who, like, somehow hasn't been snatched up by now, which is crazy. Because like, she's like the prettiest lady in town. She's incredible. I love her.

Let's jump to our six-timers quiz so we can talk about David Pamer. Oh, yes. Okay. David Pamer and Jane Adams play the rival psychologist. Well, he's a psychiatrist. We're losing all their business. Who seemingly don't care until

Martin Short comes to them and is like, you should care that he's taking all your business. And then he leaves and David Pamer's like, what an asshole? And she's like, what if we should care that he's taking all of our business? The thing that I find so annoying about that part is it's so convenient that Martin Short immediately jumps to, um, I think this guy's full of shit that he's not really a doctor. It's like, why is that your first, you know, instinct? Also, if you, if you don't like this guy, just go to these other two shrinks who are right here in front of you. I don't understand. It's all very convenient. Anyway, this is our sixth film that we've covered on this at Oscar Buzz to feature the consummate character actor, ensemble member, one-time Academy Award nominee, Mr. David Pamer.

Is David Pamer Mr. Saturday Night's only Oscar nominee? Yes. We could do that as an exception. Talk about Billy Crystal. You can talk about Billy Crystal. We don't have a whole lot of opportunity to do that. Anyway, six-timers for David Famer, we have been, and this has been from the earliest days to the most recent days. We did Get Shorty in the early days of this had Oscar Buzz.

We covered him in the film Bounce. I'm going to admit, I don't remember who he played in Bounce. We covered the film, Where Do You Go, Burtedette? I also kind of don't remember who he played and where'd you go, Bernadette. He was in State and Maine. He was one of the soulless Hollywood types trying to make a movie in State and Maine. He was an in Good Company playing a real son of a bitch in the company. And then here he is in Mumford as the least combative of the two shrinks in town.

So, as we always do with, when we hit number six on an actor on this podcast, I come up with a quiz for Chris, where the answers are one or more of those six movies. Chris, what a weird set of movies. What an interesting, interesting mix of films. None of them, with the exception of maybe Get Shorty, are enduring classics, I would say. but yet all of them of interest in one way or another. Okay, are you ready? Let's do it. What's the longest of those movies?

Bounce? Not Bounce. Where'd you go Bernadette? You would think, I feel like Bernadette is spiritually the longest, but this is actually, that's three minutes shorter than the longest movie. It's at Mumford. It's Mumford in 112 minutes, so nothing too terrible. terribly long for Mr. Pamer.

Which two movies tie for the shortest? State and Maine. Yes. And get shorty? Indeed. Both at 105 minutes. Ironic, get shorty is one of the shortest. Best Rotten Tomatoes percentage. Get Shorty.

88% Get Shorty, which is the worst Rotten Tomatoes percentage? Um... Bounce. No. Where'd you go, Bernadette? Where'd you go, Bernadette, hits an even 50, bounce just ahead of it at 52%. Yes.

Biggest box office domestic. Ooh, interesting. Get shorty. Get shorty, 72 million. Lowest box office, domestic. Mumford? Mumford. $4.5 million.

All right. Which two of those movies were not directed by Oscar nominees? either before or after, like at no point were those directors Oscar nominated. Bounce and In Good Company. Bounce? No, not in good company. Which of the Whites is it? I'll say in good company.

In Good Company is Paul Whites. They were both nominated for writing about a boy, so... Got it. Not in good company. Bounce is correct. Is it David Mamet was never Oscar nominated? Mamet was nominated for, I believe, writing Glenn Gary Glenn Ross, or writing the adaptation of Glenn Garry Glenn Ross.

Um, so, but you're right with Bounce. Don Roos was never nominated. Then it has to be Get Shorty, but I thought that's Barry Levinson. It's Barry Sondentfeld. Different Barry. Big mistake. Big mistake, huge. Um, which movie was directed by the same director as Little Fockers?

Uh, in good company. Paul White's in good company. Yes, took over for Jay Roach on the Fockers beat. Um, which of these movies has the same? cinematographer as desert hearts, the hand that rocks the cradle, and inherent vice. Oh, that is, um, is that Robert Ellswitt? It is Robert Ellswit. I think that's State and Maine? It's not State and Maine.

Does it get shorty? It's not get shorty. Is it bounce? It is bounce. Robert Ellswit did the cinematography for bounce. I never knew that he also did. desert hearts in the hand that rocks the cradle. What a great career. What a rad career for Robert Hellswick. Also, I found out doing this is Jake Gyllenhaal's godfather in real life. I believe it.

Which of these movies has the same composer as Unbreakable, collateral, and Red Sparrow? Mumford. Mumford. James Newton Howard. Very good. Which movie was released in American theaters 10 days after the Supreme Court decided Bush v. Gore. Um Bounce No You fell into my trap Yeah

Bounce was October of Oh so it's State and Maine December 22nd 2010 days after The Supreme Court Decided Bush v. Gore And plunged us

into the nightmare in which we can continue to exist today Which movie Was released in Leo season? So I'll August slash early September. That's, where'd you go, Bernadette?

It is where'd you go, Bernadette. It's not August early September. It is late July, August. Yes. Where'd you go, Bernadette? August 16th. Which movie's screenplay was written by the same person who wrote Little Man Tate? It's not Don Ruse.

Nope. Is it get shorty? It is. Scott Frank did the screenplay adaptation. for Get Shorty and also wrote Little Man Tate. Which movie has the same costume designer as Edward Scissorhands,

Gattaca, and Kiss of the Spider Woman 2025? Colleen Atwood. Yes. Um, Get Shorty? No. In good company.

No. Where'd you go, Bernadette? No. Wow. I guess it's bounced. It is Mumford. Colleen Atwood did the costumes for Mumford. I was going to say maybe it was the noir section.

By the way, I should note, the noir scenes, it's Holt, either McCallany or McAllenie. I still have not gotten full, I have not figured out how to pronounce that man's name. My man Holt, Fritz von Erick himself. But also, the girl who plays the jailbate daughter, Lolita, cheerleader uniform, is Kelly Monaco, who is soap opera extraordinary General Hospital Zone, recently was killed off of General Hospital, but won the first season of Dancing with the Stars also, Kelly Monaco. Anyway, Colleenette Wood, right. Which were the only two movies to play at the Telluride Film Festival? Um Did Mumford play at Telluride?

Indeed it did Telluride's history is not... Wait, wait, wait, sorry, sorry. It's not Telluride, it's TIF, sorry. Oh. Which were the only two movies to play at TIF? State in Maine. Yes.

And Bounce? No, it's Mumford. It's just. I forgot to change the When I write these quizzes I tend to just write over the previous quizzes and I forgot to change that title. So yes,

it's Staten Main and Mumford. So you got it right even though you thought it we were answering about Tell You Right. Which was the only movie to play at the Sundance Film Festival? Uh, no. Bounce? Not bounce.

Get Shorty? No. It's not where you Chico Burnett's at. State and Maine? No. In Good Company. Played in Sundance Film Festival. Yes.

Which were the only movies, two movies, to feature David Pamer on the poster as depicted on IMDV? Mumford. Yes. And stayed in Maine. And stayed in Maine. Yes, indeed. Ensembles on the posters. Which of these titles?

has the largest possible Scrabble score. This one's easy. Where'd she go, Bernadette? Where'd you go, Bernadette? Runs away with it. The question mark also gets you 20 points. There you go. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include

Porsche convertible, job offer, and arm in a sling? Get shorty. No, you fell into my trap. Fuck you. In good company? In good company. Yes, yes, indeed. Which movie has IMDB keywords that include

include showbiz comedy, heart attack, and female star appears in underwear. Stayed in Maine. Guy, you fell into my trap! I hate you. Get Shorty. Get Shorty. I love this. Which two movies were nominated for Golden Globes? Get Shorty.

Yes. And where'd you go, Bernadette? Yes, very good. Which movie was nominated for Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards? Bounce. Bounce. You know that memorable kiss and bounce? Um, which movie was nominated for the AARP Movies for Grownups Award for Best Grownup Love Story?

In Good Company. In Good Company. Mark Elginberger and Dennis Quay. Indeed. Which two films feature stars of Chasing Amy? Mumford. Yep. And Bounce.

And Bounce. Ben Affleck and Jasonly. Which two films feature stars of the Royal Tenemones? Um, Bounce. Bounce, Gwyneth. And... I'm trying to go through. Oh, State and Maine, if Alec Baldwin counts.

Oh, it should. So which three films feature stars of the Royal Tendombs? Because, yes, Alec Baldwin is absolutely a major star. Get Shorty. Get Shorty, Gene Hackman. Yes. Which two films feature stars of Mission Impossible three? State and Maine has Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Exactly right. And is Carrie Russell in one of these? Did you say two or three films? Two. Two. Best as I can remember, two. Actually, it's three, but two of them are in the same movie. Got it.

Who else? I almost for a second thought, Jason Lee, and I'm like, nope, that's Vanilla's Guy. That's Vanilla's Guy. What else is going on in Mission Impossible Three? Oh, Ving Rames is in... Shorty I'm going to look He might be

But that's not What I'm thinking of But hold on Regardless There's another Is it Billy Crudeup And Bernadette It is Billy Crudeup

And Lawrence Fishburn And where'd you go Bernadette I don't believe Ving Rames is in Get Shorty But a good try Um, which two films feature stars of Asteroid City?

Um, well, uh, Scarlett Johansson is in good company. Indeed, she is. And Hope Davis is in Mumford. Very good, yes. Which two films feature stars of hocus pocus? Sarah Jessica Parker is in State and Maine. Yes. And we got Jimmy, Midler.

Thorough Birch I don't think Thorough Birch is in any of these um the oh um it's not Vanessa Shaw

is it Vanessa Shaw is it Vanessa Shaw it's not Vanessa Shaw as far as I can tell um um um ooh

um um isn't the Jimmy and get Shorty No, but you're close The Jimmy's in Bounce No, not a Jimmy Is there a movie?

Is there a movie? No It's get shorty And it's You've hit the other two, which is so So Bet Midler's in that movie? Yeah, remember Bet Middler has that one brief scene Do not remember that at all

She's someone's wife who's maybe been abducted or something like that? I don't know. She's mad in that movie. Finally, which two films feature five stars of the movie Magnolia? So name the two films

and the five stars. Okay. State and Maine has Philip Seymour Hoffman and William H. Macy. Yes. And then

um Going through Burnettet. I don't remember anyone in Bounce. It's not bounce. I will say it is not the most prominent role in this, but it's not like a super brief cameo. Is April Grace in one of these? It's not April Grace.

By the way, you have not reached all of it. of the people who are in State and Maine. State and Maine. Okay. Bill Macy. Um. Ooh. Who am I? Is Philip Baker Hall in State of Maine?

Not in State and Maine, but it's Philip Baker Hall as in one of the other movies. He's in Get Shorty. He's in a good company. Oh, yes, he's in in good company. All right, so you have two more people who were in Staten, Maine, and Mangol. Wow. Are they more character actors? They're both character actors, but like, one of whom...

Is Louise Guzman in it? Not as far as I can tell. Okay. One of the people we've done previously a six-timers-on. And one of the people is, maybe in my top three favorite actors in Magnolia. And it's not April Grace. No, but it's similarly like a very small, a small but important role in Magnolia. What's my favorite part of Magnolia?

Besides anything involving Julianne Moore. And anything involving Phillips Seymour Hoffman. Right, but I think I might like this even more than any of the parts involving Philip Seymour Hoffman. Is it Melora Walters? No, not my favorite performance. What's my favorite portion of Magnolia? The prologue. Yeah.

Who's in the prologue? Miriam Margulies? No, but she's great. It's not who's in the prologue. It's the narrator who is, I forget who narrates it. Is it... It's not like Clark Craig. Is Spalvin Gray?

No, wait, but Clark Gregg... Is in Magnolia? and stayed in Maine. Yeah. So he was the one we did a six-timers on. Oh, it's Ricky Jay. It's Ricky Jay. Ricky Jay.

Oh, so good. All right. That is our David Paymer Six-Timer's quiz. Wow, no Rex Reed. No, I couldn't find any good quotes for anything. And also we were sort of like coming down to the wire. Last notes on Mumford. Last notes on Mumford.

Okay, so what did I write down? Um, did you make note of Mary McDonald's, uh, sort of a pastel, pearl finish fingernail polish in this movie? No, but I did make note of her, like, flawless hair. By the way, have you seen recently Mary McDonald's, um, IMDB photo? No. Okay. Okay. Oh, interesting.

It's intense, right? She's wearing this sort of like beige, seemingly a beige power suit with like a red cape over it. And her hair is intensely ambayed where it's like very like platinum blonde almost at the top or like at least like a golden blonde that cascades into. Brunette ringlets. She looks like Willow in the finale of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where she casts the spell and her hair goes all, like white, but

like gradually. She really looks incredible, honestly. Like, in her, she's definitely got this, like, smoky eye situation happening. It's kind of a gene gray situation, too. It is. She looks like Jean Grey. Like, if you had to catch up with Jean Grey

decades later, because you were making a documentary on everything that happened in the whole Dark Phoenix saga. Yeah, it's Gene Gray showing up decades later to do a public reading and book signing for her memoir. Yes.

It's really incredible. Worth looking at. Okay. Also, Unsolved Mysteries, obviously. There is a literal white picket fence in this. Epstein Bar, a very trendy. Hope Davis's character has Epstein Bar, a very, very

trendy, not only as a like an affliction, but like, also Lauren Dean's character mentions Dr. Mumford is literally like, oh, it's been in the news a lot because it was like very controversial whether Epstein Bar was really a thing or whether it was just like wealthy white ladies felt tired and or bored and said they had Epstein Bar. Chronic fatigue syndrome is the other name for Epstein Bar. Oh, I wrote down before I realized that there was the twist. I was like, he's really just like, telling all of Pruitt Taylor Vince's stories to Jason Lee. And that ends up being obviously part of the text. Lawrence Kazden invented incels.

Oh, there is, did you read up on Lauren Dean's Wikipedia page where there is a section? One of my favorite things is when somebody has like a really hilarious table of contents in their Wikipedia. And so Lauren Deans goes early life, career. He has an impersonator. Impersonated by con man. Yes. So he has been repeatedly impersonated by suspected con artist whose name is Lauren Dean Breckenridge the third. Okay.

Psycho when they change their name to match yours. The Sheriff's Department in Orange County, California has accused Breckenridge of impersonating Dean and defrauding drug rehabilitation centers across the United States, as well as committing the theft of $75,000 in Marin County, California. Does this not seem like, like, promo for Mumford that they put out at some point? Like, it dovetail so nicely with the events of Mumford. This is how we got RFK. Skip seems to be the only one of the two of them to see that creating a sex companion robot is creepy.

It's also the way that we see the function, the... motion, for lack of a better word, that we see the sex robot making is just very like, you're a, you're a dirty man, you're... And yet, he seems incredibly sweet and does not seem like one of those sweet people who, like, reveals themselves to be creepy. Like, I don't know, this is what I mean, like, the, the, the, the, the character is just full of a lot of contradictions. Um, all right, that's, I guess my last note, and I don't know if this was colored by

having just seen, if I had legs, I'd kick. you, but I did write that this movie is Does My Therapist Hate Me, Core. Is that a thing? Does My Therapist Hate Me? Is that a... Yes. Okay.

Like, anxiety over your therapist not liking you. Can I also list out the list of gala's at Tiff, the year that Mumford was there? Yes. Opening night, Adam Agoyan's Felicia's Journey of film. I've never seen, but which does Star Bob Hoskins. Gala presentations, American Beauty, Sam Mendes, anywhere but here. This had Oscar Buzz's official movie anywhere but here. The Cider House Rules, Elasa Hallstrom.

Jacob the Liar, aforementioned. Mumford, Music of the Heart, West Craven's Music of the Heart, Ang Lee's Ride with the Devil, Matthew Warkas's Sympatico, which, if you write, Recall starred Sharon Stone, Nick Nolte, Jeff Bridges, and Catherine Keener, adapted from the Sam Shepard play, Snow Falling on Cedars from Shine director, Scott Hicks, Sunshine, not that one, but the Itzvon Zabo, Hungarian Sunshine, Woody Allen's Sweet and Lowdown. Honestly, that's a solid lineup. A lot of flops, though.

A lot of flops, but like, okay, if. If you were going to TIF that year, which would have been the ones you're like, I can't miss? Like, I have got to go to the Roy Thompson premiere of, or like, I have to prioritize seeing this, knowing what you knew then. Well, it probably would have been, like, snow falling on cedar. I would have been rabid to see Ride with the Devil at that point. I would have definitely wanted to see the cider house rules because I had read that book. I would have been really interested to see the marriage of Meryl Streep and West Craven

in Music of the Heart And by this time I would have read the Entertainment Weekly Fall Preview issue So I would have been all about seeing American Beauty And then of course Susan Sarandon Plus Natalie Portman You would have had to tie me to the CN Tower To keep me from seeing anywhere before

You would have thought Jacob the liar Was gonna be a thing at that point It's probably true It's probably true But I do feel like my top two Would have absolutely been Ride with the Devil And American Beauty that year So anyway

I like that People's Choice Award that year, by the way, was American Beauty One of these sort of big Toronto can launch An Oscar Contender stories Yes You know All right And it constantly gets credited as like

The first big Oscar like TIF people's choice conjoining when it's not true it happened with the big chill it happened with um sure but at some point at some point it became like a streak this was the streak yeah it became a thing where like they're they start taking movies because of the success that you can have at at this festival yeah should we move on to the IMDB game yeah let's would you explain the IMDB game to our listeners what if i said no what if i just refused um no no i wouldn't do that. Every week we end our episodes with the

IMDB game, where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress, and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, then we will give

the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free for all of hints. All righty, do you want to give her guess first? I'll guess first. Okay, so I went to the Kasden Stable of Actors, someone we have not done since year one of the show, is Mr. Kevin Klein. Ah, okay.

A fish called Wanda. Correct, is Oscar win? Um, Dave. Dave is correct. Okay. Dave, good movie. Good movie. All right.

All right. Mr. Kevin Klein. That's a maybe, the one that I just thought of. I'm trying to definitely think of movies where he's the lead. Or like a co-lead. French Kiss. French Kiss is correct. How did you get there? He's a lead or a co-lead, and we just talked about it.

He's a lead in most of the things he's in. Is he, though? Like, at some point, he's sort of like he's an ensemble member of the Big Chill, although the Big Chill could be it. He's an ensemble member of Grand Canyon. Like, what I was thinking of was, like, Sophie's Choice. And he's not the lead in Sophie's Choice, but, like, he's the second lead in Sophie's choice. The Big Chill.

the big chill is incorrect Fuck, okay Sophie's choice Sophie's choice is incorrect God damn it Your year is 1999 The year of Mumford

The year of Mumford 99 Too early For the Emperor's Club What is he in the late 90s? Oh, God. Is it Wild Wild West? Are you goddamn kidding me?

Wild Wild West being on anyone's known for is hilarious. We going straight to the Wild Wild West. Also that French Kiss is his only Lawrence Cazden movie on here when he is the lead of the Lawrence Cazden movies that he is in. Yeah, but like Silverado's not going to be on the IMDB. Is he in Silverado? I mean, like, but like the big chill could be. But, like, he's one of eight equally prominent folks. He's the lead of In and Out.

He's the lead of the Ice Storm. In and out? Why didn't I guess In and Out? That's so stupid. Exactly. When you're like, oh, he's the lead of French Kiss. We had just talked about it. The Kevin Klein movie, you know?

We had just talked about it. All right. For you, I also went with some. who was in the big chill. We haven't been able to do this person because for the longest time they only had one movie listed on their IMDB.

I checked today. She's got four. So now I present to you for the first time in six years. Please give me Glenn Close is known for. You know, I found somebody who only had two the other day.

Sometimes you will find some others, yes. Anna Camp only has two. Who is Anna Camp? to only have two fill it out come on i mean anacamp like anacamp um okay glen close fatal attraction is still there it is has to be yes um do i think crewella is there either of the crewella's that she did good movies um i'm gonna put a button in that for now dangerous liaisons indeed dangerous liaisons is there two for two yeah um i do think I don't think the wife.

The wife in her inimitable role as Joan Castleman. She won too many awards for it to not be there. Not enough of them. One away. One short. As are you. Been a long time since we've gotten a perfect score. This is always when I notice it.

And then I don't get it. I don't know. I don't think it's 101 Dalmatians because that kind of has gone. forgotten as a footnote in her career. Could it be something recent? I think it's going to be something from the 80s still. Maybe she has the big chill. She's the Oscar nominee from the big chill.

You said that in the same tone as maybe I'm the trade of the season. Maybe she has the big chill. We are here where people are listening to the sound of my voice for going on a decade now. I will never be the trade of any season. I'm going to get a perfect score on Glenn Close is known for. I will never be the trade of any season. Okay. Man, you just called your shot, huh?

See, this is where it's tough because, like, I don't want to pull the trigger on anything. It could be reversal of fortune. It could be Jack at Edge. It could be... It could still be 101 Dalmatians. The pressure's getting to him, Gary's. There's no voices, so it's not Tarzan. I'm happy to rule something out.

He's getting in his head. The demons of past IMDB games are haunting him. He's remembering all those other times he had three. Fine, 101 Dalmatians. It's not 101 Dalmatians. I'm sorry. Reversal of fortune. It is not reversal of fortune.

A movie that she spends most of it in a coma. 2014. 2014. The bright side of this is you don't have to live in regret because you were never going to get this. Got it. So, what exactly, where do we, how can I place this in time? I would say, it's before the wife. It is before the wife, and it's after Albert Knobbs.

Right, Albert Knobbs. I didn't even think of Albert Knobbs. You've almost certainly never seen this movie. People have kind of forgotten that she's in it, even in the capacity that she's in it. You know, I should have even... I know it's not there, but, like, the deliverance, as much of a deal as we made about the deliverance. But Netflix movies. I maybe should have thought of it, though. Yeah.

Okay, so she's not the lead. No. The capacity in which she's in it. Is she a cameo? It's a notch above a cameo. I would wager that she's the and in this. Let me guess. Let me look.

So she's in it less than she's in something like La D'I divorce. Oh, no, she's not. Hold on. Definitely less than La Diverse. La D'I divorce is like a legit... Supporting Raw. Supporting Raw. 2014 is this an Oscar nominee

Yes but not in the way you're thinking Okay nominated for two Oscars Both of them below the line Yeah Was it nominated for like original song? No Is this a boy movie?

Yeah I mean I know women who like these movies but like, um... These movies. Yes. It is a nominee in makeup and hairstyling and visual effects. Oh my God! It's Guardians of the Galaxy.

It is Guardians of the Galaxy. Boo! Boo! Um, the With and the Ender, of course. We were also depressed when she played that because it's like, this is what they're making Glenn Close do. She doesn't even, like, speak. I mean, she does, but, like, she speaks, like, you know, charge up the... It should be, like, Air Force One.

Air Force One is, like, the good version of what she's doing. I mean, she definitely should be on... Air Force One should definitely be on her IMD be known for. Like, yes. You know me, I'm like, I am a Marvel apologist, although the Guardians movies are... You've never liked the Guardians movies. There've never been my favorite flavor. As, again, the James Gunfe.

I liked the Guardians movies at the time, but, like, now that it's so overreuthers. ridden that like that's the humor of all the Marvel movies it's all this schmuck humor yeah i can't i can't dave batista is still really funny in all of those i gotta say um i like dave batista yeah um uh that's it one oscar one oscar winner in guardians of the galaxy and it is neither glen close nor bradley cooper huh which is kind of funny just saying i mean i like Zoe. I think she's a good actress. It's just the movie she won for. She's not bad in that movie.

No, but I think the joke is that it's Bradley and Glenn to people who really want it. Actually, there's also Benicio del Toro, so there are two Oscar winners in that movie. He's not in until the second one. No? He is, no, he's in this one.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. Wrap it up. Oscars, he's had a few. A few small Oscars. Truly the meme of the year has been decided. And that's our episode. If you want more, ThisHad Oscar Buzz. You can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscorbuzz.com.

You should also follow us on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz. And on Patreon at patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D. I also host a Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi-Mor. called Demi Myself and I that can be found at patreon.com slash DemiPod. That is DEMI-P-O-D. And I am on Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Crispy File. That's F-E-I-L. We'd like to thank Kyle for his fantastic artwork, David and Salas, and Gavin Medes for their technical guidance when

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