This Had Oscar Buzz - 369 – i’m thinking of ending things

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

This week, we are talking about Charlie Kaufman in the director’s chair and how our thoughts have settled on what’s probably his most divisive film. In 2020, Kaufman returned to directing by adapting Iain Reid’s psychologically intense i’m thinking of ending things, told from the perspective of an unnamed woman visiting her new boyfriend’s rural home. … Continue reading "369 – i’m thinking of ending things"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Merlin Hack and Cran. Dick Poop. We have a real connection. A rare and intense attachment. I've never experienced anything like it. I'm thinking of ending things.

Huh? What? Did you say something? I don't think so. Weird. I'm visiting Jake's parents for the first time. He hasn't been my boyfriend for very long. They really are looking forward to meeting you.

I think you're ending things. Hello! Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that could ever be taught by the son of a preacher Spider-Man. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died and were here to perform the autopsy, I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my favorite against consensus, Pauline Kale-Pan. Joe Reed. Jenna Rollins ain't shit. Smoke, smoke, smoke. And they ain't saying nothing. Hi. Hi. I'm weirdly excited to talk about this movie.

This movie that you really, really don't like, unless you've changed the tide on this rewatch. I will say this rewatch, I felt a good deal differently than the first time I watched it. It's almost as if this is not really a movie built to be watching while we're all stuck at our homes and there's a play. And there's a pandemic happening going on and nobody knows what's going on. Yeah, yes. I definitely, I don't know if I'm ready to say like I love this movie, but I really really. appreciated it so much more this time around. And I'm really glad we decided to do this for the podcast, because I was initially like, oh, I guess, you know what I mean? And, um, well, it's the

perfect timing to do it because how many more movies can we talk about Jesse Buckley? Exactly. Exactly. Um, and I just, I, I, I, I have found new avenues of appreciation for it. And I think what ultimately it comes down to is I feel the movie coming at its story from a different angle than I did before. And we can talk about that too. I'm interested to hear what different angles you are interpreting the movie from. I read the book prior to the pandemic. Was this like a fairly like popular book? I think popular enough.

And I think as a piece of adaptation, it is really strong and impressive, but also. Well, Ian Reed was a producer on the movie, and I don't know what that entails in terms of like involvement. Cowardly's not the word. I have a lot of frustrations with this movie while also having a lot of respect for it. I think kind of at every turn, the movie seems terrified of us not getting it or not being able to understand what is happening.

So there's a lot of handholding and explaining what it is that we're watching kind of at all times to the point that I think, it makes the movie a little sluggish. I'm interested to hear you sort of expand on that then, because... The book is very brief. Like, I read this book in maybe one or two sittings. Yeah.

And, like, it has a power to it in that way. It has an immersive quality to it. But, like, you're kind... With this movie, I feel like you're sitting with it for a long time. Each of its different, like, passages are probably individually long. than they should be, but then they are also explaining to you the context of what the allegory is that you're watching or the alternate reality that you're watching. Yeah.

And maybe it's just because I read the book, but I'm also like, yeah, I got it, I got it, I got it. I don't know if I would call this movie overly explanatory, though, as somebody who hasn't read the book. Like, I do feel like there is a degree of the audience. really isn't going to know what in the world is going on. And so I think I do appreciate a movie not being so dedicated to being inscrutable that it, you know, that it will, because I think sometimes that can be the case, I think, with, you know, filmmakers, they're so dedicated to not explaining anything that ultimately you're just like, well, maybe explain something. You know what I

I mean, no, but I mean, like, I think there's a certain trust in the audience that the audience can, like, put pieces together. And I don't really think this movie has, like, any trust in the audience to really speak of. Maybe this is also kind of my aversion to Easter egg culture. Yeah, I can see that. Because, like, there's pieces throughout this whole movie that, like, get called back to. Like, there's literally the shot before they get back in the car where you see his bookshelf and it lingers on his book. bookshelf. And you have a DVD of a beautiful mind. You have the Foster Wallace book. You have this giant Pauline kale book that you cannot miss. And it's just like, it's really just

setting you up to not misinterpret anything that's coming in a way that I feel like you can have a little more faith in the audience. That whole kale monologue where she, where it's him arguing with her review of a woman under the influence. It's like you kind of, maybe the audience won't know that is being pulled from a literal Pauline Kale review, but they'll know that something is not normal there. And like maybe somebody would like be able to construct or like, of course you'll see some tweet that goes crazy and people will be like, huh, where it's like, did you know that this is from her actual review of blah, blah, blah, blah.

that this movie is quoting Pauline Kale. Like, I don't know. I come... It feels Easter-Ey in a way that I respect less than I respect the movie as a whole. I think I come at it from completely the opposite end, which is, don't make me have to prove my worth to see your movie. Don't make me have to prove that I'm smart enough to see your movie. And I feel like...

I don't think that's what that is. I, I mean, I think there's... is a, there is an element to that. I think there is an element to making something so incredibly difficult to, not difficult, challenging. I think, like, I don't mind the Easter eggs. If, for one thing, because I think it makes the movie a little more surreal, I think it sort of amps up the surreality of it, that like, you know, you're seeing something, I think it makes it all a little bit more dreamlike. I think, you know, to see a reference to something early and then it, and then it, you know, crops up again.

Joe, I'm thinking of restarting things. Chris, what am I doing wearing different clothes than a minute ago? What's going on? Wow, I'm somehow 80 years old. Listener, this is a bit that we're doing. We did not intend to suddenly, rapidly age and de-age and be in different outfits. We had technical difficulties, and we're back. We're back.

It's not like we're jumping into Double Dutch. It's like we're jumping into a time machine to try to get on the groove we were at. Joe, without delaying us any further, you were talking about your different feelings about this movie than I have in terms of the Easter egginess. The Easter egginess. and the, like, you were saying it had, like, a dreamy quality for you. It did. And it, and in a way that I appreciated, in a way, I mean, sometimes my problems, and when I talk about my problems with Charlie Kaufman, I should clarify that, like, he's written some

of my favorite movies. Like, Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind is, like, so incredibly important to me. And I love being John Malkovich, and I love adaptation. And it's sometimes when he's sort of left to his own devices that he does, kind of burrow a little far into his own malaise a little bit and a little bit into his own sort of into his um his self loathing in a way that feels a little smug almost you know what i mean that sort of comes out around to feeling like you know a little i don't know but so one of the i i mean yes i do i do know what you're saying even if i don't agree and one of the things that i

appreciate especially this second time of watching I'm thinking of ending things is that there are I think the big thing which is something that I'll talk about later which is its treatment of its main character um which one do you well we'll talk about it we'll talk about it because I think there I think it makes a big difference um but I think just in terms of guiding the audience along and sort of like you know planting little as you say Easter eggs here and there and making sure that the audience is still with him, to me, feels like a little bit of uncommon generosity there that I appreciate. I can appreciate that.

For me, I feel like it's like he's building the Rubik's Cube, but showing you his, like, blueprint before, like, he gives you the Rubik's Cube. Sure, sure. We maybe have, like, patience for different things in different ways. I kind of, I, I'm someone who likes to work for it. Sure. I, I'm, I, I want to, like, follow you down the rabbit hole, but I don't want you to tell me what's going to be at that, at the end of that rabbit hole. Yeah.

Or, like, what the, I'm not following. I'm not going to do it. No, but, but I think, and then perhaps on my end, my thing is, if I have to work my way through the rabbit hole and then, and. up at where this movie ends you up at, I'm going to be like, well, fuck. Like, what did I do all that for? So at the very least, I feel like, I feel like Kaufman's in it with me and a little bit more, a little bit more than I'm used to and a little bit more than I thought he was, I think, the first time around. I mean, you know, we've mentioned that like watching this thing in December of 2020 is maybe not the best head.

space to watch anything um it i mean we've anytime we talk about something that aired that aired that premiered during this time we inevitably talk about the lockdown phase of pandemic when i say the pandemic um lockdown is what i mean you know what i mean like that's that that that you know 10 to 12 month period where we were all you know locked in yeah and it really is a amazing how time stretches and compresses around that era, where sometimes I will be like, God, that thing happened like during the thick of like months into pandemic. And it's like, no, that happened in May of 2020. You know what I mean? It's just like, I mean, that is months into. But then this feels like it happened very early in pandemic. And this is like, no, this was

several months into it. This is as for, virtual TIF was happening. Oh, so it was earlier than December. Okay, okay. Yes, this is, as we're saying, it's a great time to do this because we can talk about Jesse Buckley and I guess Jesse Plymonds, too. But we're doing two Netflix Pandy movies in a row. We're doing two Ian Reed adaptations in a row. Wow, fuck.

Not in a row, but in a month In the span of a month And yet I don't necessarily think I hadn't read Foe But I had read this And like I was saying as we were starting I think there is a leanness to the novel That works better than the movie does though

Again, I like this movie In that like You know, you're just kind of speeding Through this like Yeah Psychological You know know, surreality, this like deep dive into someone's psyche and delusions, and the way that they

interact with the world, in a way that's like very brief. I read it in like one or two sittings. And then this movie just kind of like asks a lot of your time in a way that I don't know helps people who might be not inclined to like this movie, like, you. it any better. I think if, you know, if it was a little more expedient, it might even be better. Yeah, that makes sense to me. I think, and, you know, it doesn't surprise me that, you know, different people, even people as sort of aligned as you and I tend to be on things, have very different experiences of this movie. It shouldn't surprise me that I had two very different experiences watching it, um, then and now. In and out of the pandemic. Yeah. Well, and just sort of, you know,

five not inconsequential, you know, years, too, is the other thing, five years later. So, yeah, I think I definitely had a better time with it. I also, it, you know, at the risk of sounding like a real fucking dumb dumb, I enjoyed being able to watch this movie and then go on to YouTube and watch people talk about this movie. and not like in the like you know ending explained kind of way but like there are some like video essays out there on this movie in a way that like I don't all agree with everything that's said in them but it's it's I enjoyed watching other people talk about this movie and dissect this movie in a way that wasn't available once when the movie is new do you know what I mean? Right right this is how people consume a lot of media these days

You know, I don't think we're the type of people who are necessarily going for all caps, ending explained. But there, you know, there is a lot to unpack in this movie. And I do think Kaufman brings his own ideas that are not necessarily in the book or that are like kind of laying in wait for more development. I'll be interested to hear what's different in the movie than the book from you because obviously that'll be a little, you know, pretty telling. as to what Kaufman wants to bring to it. I mean, there's something that you can't really get at in novel form that you can in a movie, you know, a piece of visual media. And I think, you know, the book is definitely about this type of guy.

And I think, you know, the moment that the movie is coming out, it's very difficult to not invoke the word in-cell when talking about this movie and in-cell culture. but I also think the movie and not necessarily the book does have a lot to do with media consumption and how media consumption can alter how we interact with and see the world and sometimes makes messaging of something like the musical Oklahoma or the gender norms found in something like advertising, even if it's a jingle for not Dairy Queen, but some other fake company can inform our expectations of how we're supposed to interact with the world. Yes. Here's what I would suggest.

And let's get to the other side of the plot description as soon as possible. Because I want to talk about what we're talking about. And I think we can't really do that until we get to, we get past the plot description and sort of... Well, in order to To get there, would you like to tell the listeners about our Patreon? I sure would. We have a Patreon.

We've had for a couple of years now. It's called This Head Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. It is merely $5 a month, and for $5 a month, you will get two bonus episodes from us to full-length bonus episodes. One of those episodes, which releases on the first Friday of every month, is what we call an exception, which is a, we cover a movie, just as we would, on this head Oscar buzz. But the movies that we are covering aren't, we're not. able to cover them on a flagship this had Oscar buzz because they've gotten an Oscar nomination or two, but they still have that same formula of great Oscar expectations that did not turn out the way everybody wanted. We have covered recently movies like Jody Foster in contact, Tim Burton's

Big Fish, Neil Jordan's Interview with the Vampire, Mary Queen of Scots, Mahal and Drive, Phantom of the Opera, which we covered with our good friend Natalie Walker. Later this week, we will have an episode with another friend and frequent guest of ours. Katie Rich, it's James Cameron's season, folks. So we have, of course, Katie Rich with us to talk about, we can't talk about Titanic and we can't talk about the Avatar movies, but we can talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jamie Lee Curtis, Tia Carrera in True Lies. And so that will be a very fun episode indeed.

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I'm very excited. What is our excursion episode this month? sign up for the set Oscar buzz turbulence and find out. It is a surprise to everybody. And what is the Legend of Zelda thing where you go into the little hut and the little person in the hut says it's a secret to everybody and then you get like 50 rupees or whatever? I'm not a video game person.

But like I am not either, but like I mean like original Nintendo like Legend of Zelda. Oh, I didn't play those games. I played like Mario, I played Tetris. Yeah, I played those, but the original Legend of Zelda was like the one adventure quest game I ever played, and I got so into it. To the point where I've like played it like multiple times, like on like desktop simulators and stuff like that, just because it's like it's comforting. This is not an adventure quest movie. Exactly right. So anyway, if you would like to sign up for all of the fun that we are having on this head Oscar buzz, Turbula Brilliant, which by the way, if you sign up, again, your $5.00.

month gets you two years worth of archives and like it's all there and it's all happening you can go to our patreon page at patreon.com slash this had oscar buzz i am thinking or not i am just i lowercase i all lowercase teeny tiny font teeny teeny teeny tiny font they're really testing your that's a very charlie coffman thing like i dare you to try and read the title of my of my movie like all right charlie You're so unknowable. I get it. Written and directed by Charlie Kaufman, based on the novel by Ian Reed, starring Jesse Buckley, Jesse Plymonds, Tony Colette, David Lulis, Guy Boyd. Do you think that was intentional, by the way, casting two Jesse's, two jessies, two people with essentially the same name in the lead roles? No, they're, I mean, they're perfect in the, I mean, they're perfect for these parts.

They are really great. But do you think that maybe like pushed one of them over, you know, in a all things being equal casting decision or whatever? They're like, well. Ask Mr. Kaufman. I should. Get on the podcast, Charlie. What would be the funniest Oscar Buzz movie to have Charlie Kaufman talk with us about? Oh, my God.

We would have to, first of all, it would have to be something that our listeners are like, what the hell is that movie? Right. Right. It would have to be something like that. Winter passing with Charlie Kaufman. He's welcome anytime. In scare quotes, select theaters, August 28, 2000. And then on Netflix, September 4th, 2020, we're not going to go through the box office because we basically did that last week.

I love that this was a labor This was a Labor Day weekend movie Like you can't be You can't barbecue with your family and friends So what are you going to do You're going to watch Charlie Kaufman's Depresso movie It's like okay

All right And then you're like younger cousin Who refuses to like follow COVID restrictions Because they're a teenager Went to the theater to see The New Mutants Right yep Yep

Yep Personal History of David Copperfield, Ionucci movie. I didn't really like it, but there's some fun stuff in there. Personal history of David Copperfield, Bill and Ted face the music, unhinged. Take the whole family, everybody choose your fighter. What is words on bathroom walls? This is the Charlie Plummer, and I, who's the love interest in that movie? Lean on Pete himself, Charlie Plummer?

I know Leon Pete's the horse, but, you know. It's not a good. movie. Well, I believe it. All right. Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of I'm thinking of ending things? Sure. Let's say yes. Then your 60-second plot description of I think I'm thinking of ending things starts now. Jesse Buckley plays Lucy or Louisa or Lucia or Amy and she's a poet or a painter or a physics student or a waitress who's going on a winter weekend's day trip to meet her boyfriend Jake's parents for dinner at their farmhouse all while in her mom. analoging that she's thinking of ending things. Jake, played by Jesse Plymonds, veers between

meek sweetness and a more guarded, aloof side. His parents are peculiar, and his house is creepy, which if this were a horror movie would mean something, but it's a Charlie Kaufman movie, so it's mostly sad and surreal. Interspersed with scenes of Jake's mother over laughing and his father being hostile towards abstract art, we see a seemingly random old man, who's the janitor at a high school, observing the students at a distance. Back at the house, Jake's parents are now advancing in age every time they reenter a scene, eventually arriving at Jake's mother on her deathbed. Meanwhile, Lucy keeps getting a phone call, where a man's voice and tones about needing to answer one last question.

And then as she and Jake drive home in a blizzard, she turns into Pauline Kale momentarily, and they stop at a Dairy Queen knockoff, where the employees are two mean girls in full Oklahoma makeup and a third whose meek and has eczema, and nervously warns Lucy that she doesn't have to keep going. And this would all feel like a horror movie, except it's a Charlie Kaufman movie.

So what's really going on is that the old janitor guy is Jake, as an old man, thinking back on his life and his regrets and his fears, and Lucy is merely the projection of some girl at a bar trivia night who once blew him off, and young Jake and Lucy detour in the Blizzard to the high school, and there's a dream ballet and an animated, pig. And eventually the recreation of the Nobel Prize scene from a beautiful mind. And then he sings Judd's Lament from Oklahoma in front of everybody from his life in old age makeup. And then

Janitor Jake takes to his truck in a parking lot and frees us to death the end. Can't believe you got all of the movie in there in only 22 seconds over. That's impressive. Booyah. I didn't really leave anything out, did I? I mean, not really. I didn't linger too long on the stuff at the parents. Did you mention monologue about kale and then the I mentioned Polly and Kale. I didn't really get into... Oh, right, the David Foster Wallace stuff, too. Yeah, I do kind of think you get one or the other.

You don't get to do both of those things back to back as, like, the middle point of the movie. So, like, to sort of, to unlock the movie, obviously, once... I think that's the other thing about watching it the second time is knowing going in what's going on, helps you, I think, get a little bit more of a fuller picture of this. I think the sort of switcheroo where Jesse Buckley is playing the protagonist of this film until it eventually dawns on you that she isn't a person but a construct of the Jesse Plemons slash Guy Boyd character. Guy Boyd is the guy who plays the older janitor.

construction of of their mind, of their, of their imagination, um, initially there's a sense of betrayal, right? There's on the audience's part. There's a sense of, oh, so this isn't a movie about a woman. This is a movie about this fucking man and, you know, his issues with women. His issues with women. Yes. And so initially there is, I think, to me, or was a real sort of pushing back against that and being like, well, that's obnoxious. And then I think what unlocked it for me this time around was, I think knowing that twist going in, I was I was struck by the fact that I found myself feeling a lot of sympathy for this old man who is either at the end of his life or at the end of his rope and just sort of is realizing or has come to realize that it's all, it's all amounted to nothing, right? this he's through whatever through his neuroses through his you know his his his fears his upbringing whatever has kept himself at a distance of things has allowed himself to sort of nurse these resentments we we find out that the jessie buckley character is essentially a projection of this woman who he

tried to talk up at a bar one night and either he was just like unimpressive and she kind of blew him off or that there maybe was a moment for him to like make the ask you know and and he didn't take it but in either way there's the genuine possibility that he creeped her out well that's what I mean it was just sort of like that he that he was in some way not, you know, and, but here's, here's what I will say is, and I get the

in-cell thing and it's very applicable. But I think when we talk about in-cell culture as a sort of malignant force, there are, there's obviously virulent misogyny there, there's violence, There's, you know, toxicity that bleeds over into, no pun intended, actual harm, right? This is, if you want to call this character an in-cell, I don't think you're wrong. But I think it is telling that even in his fantasy version of this, he's working out these frustrations in a way that can make him seem often annoying. he's not violent he's not degrading he's not like there is a there's a line there's a line in this movie between like I don't I think I think it's very important that this movie does not paint a vision of a ultimately virulently toxic or even or or or violent person

Certainly not violent person. Because I think that would be too much of an ask on Kaufman's part. And I don't think, I think there are ways in which a movie can ask you to feel sympathy for an actual bad person. And I don't, I wonder if I don't think we're looking at a bad person here. I think we are looking at a sad person, just a very, an antisocial person. And an antisocial person. And in ways in which we don't have to, like, we don't have to, you know, give that person everything he's ever wanted. But I think you're looking at a person who's sort of reached the end here. And it's just very regretful. And even as he's, like, working out, I promise I will let you talk soon. I'm sorry, I'm monologuing. That's okay. Even as he's working out these things where he's having these, like, once.

sided arguments, because every conversation he has, Jesse Plyman's has with Jesse Buckley in this movie, is this character having a sort of like one person, you know, argument with himself. And it's, and all of those things, once you find out that it's the, the thoughts of one person, you're just like, oh my God, was this all about how you got mad that Pauline Kale didn't like a woman under the influence as much as you did? Is this all because, like, other people haven't, like, appreciated David Foster Wallace as much as, as much as you? yet. And that's like, and that's annoying. But you can also feel like, well, this is also just a person who never had these conversations in real life because these conversations were happening

up in his head. He's such an isolated and antisocial person. I do feel a lot of sympathy and I feel very, very sad about this character at the end. And I, in a way that I did not when I first saw this movie. Well, I also think there's a certain element that it's hard to not view it as Kaufman seeing himself in this character based off of the way he's literally written himself in previous

movies. Sure. And just kind of the Charlie Kaufman male in a lot of movies. Maybe not with synecichy. What else did I want to say? Oh, the thing about him being

not only nonviolent, but we don't really know what the true nature of the interaction is. It's like as this came out that she is this, as it comes out in the movie, she is this projection. You also get that it's like he's ruminating over all of the possibilities of what went wrong there. Did I creep her out? Did I just not, you know, taken in? Was she very politely, you know, disinterested?

Right. all of this. There's a little bit of self, if not self-criticism, certainly self-evaluation happening in the movie. And I mean, like, as much as she is a projection, Jesse Plemons is also in a way a type of projection. I agree. I agree. You know, it's it's him as he sees himself, which is a younger person. So it's like this idea that a version of yourself can be the you that's frozen in your mind.

Yeah. And I think if you were looking at this from this perspective of, you know, she is the protagonist and this is his projection, I don't necessarily think he has the, like, this glowing view of himself. Oh, totally. No. Yeah. I mean, that's as much. Yeah. Yeah.

The toughest version that he sees himself as. Like, Jesse Plemons, like, barely speaks above a mumble in this movie. He's very passive to his parents. He himself is a projection of what he believes are his worst qualities. And that's classic Charlie Kaufman, too. You look at Eternal SunTrans, Spotless Mind. That is not a movie that lets Joel off the hook for his sort of, I don't say toxic challenge, Joe. But the ways in which his passivity is not great, you know what I mean?

that he sort of, he uses his passivity to allow himself to villainize Clementine in that movie. And the movie calls him out on that. And I certainly think that I'm thinking of ending things calls out this character in a similar way or is, you know, because like, yes, you're right. He is not violent or does not espouse violence in the way that we do think of in cell culture. But I do think there is a tension that borders on the hospital. hostility thing, like especially the whole polycal sequence. It's like he literally can't read a woman's

disagreement of him without feeling like it's a confrontation of him and his perception of it, you know? Yeah. Let's talk about Jesse Buckley for a minute. Okay, let's talk about Jesse Buckley. So when we enter the movie... I think she's tremendous in this movie.

I definitely was a lot more impressed with her this time than I was last time. And I wonder if this is me sort of being post-hamnet now that I sort of have finally gotten on board. Gotten on board, yes. Fine, I'm going to make you watch Wild Rose again then.

Wild Rose, I think, is a lost cause. People were so extra about that movie. It's a very basic movie that ends with an incredible song, and Jesse Buckley, I think, is incredible in the movie, so it makes the movie better.

directed that movie. Is that somebody who's done anything since then? Maybe. Hold on. Give me half a second to just look that up. While you look that up, I just want to say about her performance in this. I think that she had the degree of difficulty is so high because she is a projection. I feel like we need to like have a projection swear jar for this. I have to stop saying the word projection. She's she's not a character. She's a construct. She's not even just a construct. She's several construct. She has to be this constantly slippery thing where she has no real information to play a real person. But in a certain degree, she also has to be the audience surrogate, especially the audience surrogate for the surreal nature of the movie because she's catching on to like, oh, these things keep changing, this is not normal, this is not real, having this internal monologue. but like she gives such a vivid performance without really much to hold on to that I I just find it really impressive. Would you like to know what the director of Wild Rose has done since then? Yes, television. No, no.

Future films. 2018's The Wild Rose was followed by 2019's The Aeronauts. Oh, yes, we talked about this. This is, oh, God. Then, 2023's Heart of Stone. What's Heart of Stone, you ask? Oh, the Gail Godot movie, where she's a intelligence operative. And coming up, he is directing the Peeky Blinders movie.

So it's all happening. Not Benedict Andrews. No, Tom Harper. Stephen Knight is doing the screenplay, obviously, for the Peeky Blinders movie. But Tom Harper is directed. Should I get into Peaky Blinders in time for the movie? Talk to my husband, I feel like it's a lot of episodes. How many episodes?

Honestly, wow, only 36 total episodes of Peeky Blinders. Oh, that's right, because it is a British show. Short seasons. They do it right over there. They know that seasons should only be like six. It's very slow horses, slow horses coded. Six seasons of six episodes apiece. Maybe it will.

You know what? No time like the present. Okay. But anyway, so now we've stopped. I agree with you about Jesse Buckley in this movie, obviously. I think the movie puts a lot on her shoulders for, you know, for the majority of this movie. One of the things that I think is interesting is she's not, she's aware of the ways in which things are a miss in the movie, right?

She's unsettled by the fact that Jesse Plemons can seemingly hear her inner monologue in the car when she's saying, I'm thinking of ending things. She's jarred by the fact that she's in the house with the parents and, you know, all of a sudden

she's in a room alone. She looks at the dog and the dog never stops, maybe one of the more unsettling things in the movie. The dog is never shown not shaking shaking itself dry. But then, like, after a beat, she sort of moves past it. And so it's an interesting acting task to be sort of aware and not aware of how you're

essentially existing in this weird movie that would, again, as I said in the plot description would be the premise for a psychological thriller horror movie kind of a thing in the book is terrifying like there's this whole like passage towards the end of it that like makes you think that like someone's trying to find her and kill her okay see and that i think i think the fact that that doesn't exist in the movie um i'm glad for that because i do feel like i don't know I think, you know, adding an element of horror and violence into it, I think would make me feel a little bit less, I don't know, which would affect the way I would take the whole endeavor. If the whole thing is that he's constructing this weird, you know, pseudo-horror movie about this woman that he, you know, met one time and hasn't, you know, been able to get over, whatever.

That makes him a little bit of a different character for me. And not really having it in the movie to prevents, as the kids would say, Kaufman reheating his own nachos or being accused of reheating his own nachos, because then it would be like, oh, you're doing the adaptation thing where you say earlier that a movie has to have a car chase and then you have a car chase. Yes, yes, yes. You know, where it becomes so overtly genre that, you know. Yeah.

It's like Charlie Kaufman's already done that. But there's still several elements of this movie. There's a shot of them before they go into the barn where a sort of an upper-level barn window kind of just like blows open, or is somebody like opening it? And she sees the dead, you know, frozen dead lambs and, you know, the story of the pigs being. eaten alive by the maggots and whatever and when she asks about these things Jesse Plemons

gets very like closed off and aloof to the point of obstinence and again this is you're getting windows into why this person has been alone his entire life right

that any time somebody approaches some area of his life. He's clearly ashamed of his parents, ashamed of his parents' sort of smallness. It's not that he wants to be some sort of like master of the universe. I think he's ashamed of his parents

a lack of cultural intellect. You know what I mean? They're both painted as very sort of like dull. His dad doesn't understand abstract art. His mom thinks that it's the trivial pursuit genius edition. And he, in his mind, has created, his mother is something of a grotesque, right? She's just sort of, it's hard to imagine being in a room with this woman because she's so on the verge of a, you know, under the influence and on the version of her character.

There's a lot of muchness, a lot of muchness going on, which makes Tony Colette, like, you understand the casting choice, but I kind of feel like there's nowhere for her to go. in this movie to stay at 11. I don't disagree. And then David Thuleas, for as much as he's like the chill one,

he's really he's, you know, obstinate to the point of rude about the whole, like, talking to her about her art and whatever. And then you get to the parts sort of later on

where the mother's on the deathbed and the first. father is talking about having Alzheimer's. And you get, you know, you get to this like double meaning of that whole sequence is that like he's working out his, you know, years and years of frustration with his parents while also mourning them at the same time. Yeah, while dealing with their death. Yeah. so of course through all of this like everything about his parents are also projection too so it's like we don't it's it's through as you say the like the lens of his frustrations with them or you know it's him reducing them down to their most irritable qualities yeah yes yes and and also being like well i could never have brought a girl

home to my parents. Look how embarrassing they are. I could have never brought a girl home to this farm, you know, with these disgusting barn animals. We got dead animals frozen in the snow. Right. We got dead animals. My mom's, you know, an ignoramus who like doesn't know the difference between genus edition and genius edition. My dad can't appreciate art and what would we talk about? I'd be, I'd be embarrassed to bring. And it's, and it's, you know, this self-justification of, oh well I've been alone all this time because like even if I brought somebody home they'd be horrified they'd want to constantly be leaving they'd constantly be talking about shouldn't we be getting on the road they'd be getting bailout calls from their girlfriends who you know who are calling

them and being you know giving them a way out um the other thing's like just kind of also speaks to this mentality of like in his projection he's not thinking about well maybe she has annoying parents. Maybe she comes from a shitty house. She barely, she doesn't even have a job or a name. You know what I mean? Yeah, her job keeps changing. She doesn't have it. And like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did you make of the Abby Quinn character in this movie? Because we see, she's the, she's the girl at the, what is it, the, Tulsi Town? Not Dairy Queen. Not Dairy Queen, Tulsi Town. Not Dairy Queen, but very clearly Dairy Queen. Those huge giant blizzards, Joe, did the sequence make you want a blizzard?

I mean, yes. We're in wintertime here. Who cares? I'm always down. Our local, but our local dairy queen isn't a food and ice cream dairy queen. It's just the ice cream. So it closes in the winter. So they open at this, and it's Buffalo, which is so funny, they open in like late February.

And I'm always like, why? What's the difference? But they close in early September. So they haven't, like, adjusted for the seasons. Like, they should probably open in, like, early April and then stay open until, like, the end of October. Do they think people with, like, New Year's birthdays don't also like ice cream cake? What's wrong with them? Well, yes.

But I also. But I also. But it's also, I think, a worker issue because, like, like, it's just, it's exactly the setup that you get here. It's just, like, they're in the shack and it's the windows. You know what I mean? It's not, like, a, like, full-on restaurant or whatever. So anyway, we have a very, like, particular relationship. But yes, it absolutely made me want to get a blizzard.

I've discovered in adulthood that I am unsatisfied by the blizzard options. I love Dairy Queen soft serve. But, like... I agree with you. Here's the essential conundrum. It's not doing it. I, nine times out of ten, will have a better. qualitative experience getting a hot fudge Sunday from Dairy Queen.

They have their hot fudge is very tasty. They give you. But the blizzard is a triumph of marketing because every time I walk up to that menu and I look and I'm like, well, that's new. I've never seen that flavor before. I owe it to myself to like see what that tastes like. And so that's how I keep ordering blizzards because I just. And at the end, I'm like, I probably would have enjoyed a hot fudge Sunday more.

You know what I mean? Or, like, here's what's underrated. A simple soft serve in a regular dairy queen cone, not even with chocolate dip, not even with sprinkles or whatever, just the simple soft serve is so underrated. It's just a plain ice cream cone. We'll do it. Because soft serve, it's always on the menu. We also, though...

We locally have another ice cream stand that's, like, equidistant from the Dairy Queen that does better soft serve. Like, Dairy Queen soft serve is good. You have the not Dairy Queen that's always served by two hostile women. Yeah. Okay. So back to this, right? So the people who work at the Telsytown are these two girls who are from the high school and are in, like, full makeup. for the production of Oklahoma.

We've already seen all three of these girls, as observed by the janitor, the old Jake, the janitor. Neither the girls, the mean girls, nor Abby Quinn, who's playing the sort of like meek, sad girl with eczema. We've seen him observe her sort of walking the halls being kind of meek and alone.

And we've seen the two poppices. girls being popular, but we haven't, like, seen them being mean, right? We've seen them laughing, but we haven't seen them laughing at people. So I think it's telling that in this then projection, their sort of being pretty and popular is weaponized, right? Now of a sudden, they're pretty and popular, but they hate you. And this girl, who he's seen as being, you know, a little sad or a little sad or a maybe just like quiet, is now bullied and terrified and picking at her poor scabby arms.

And which dovetail with his own eczema, you know, on his, on his arms that we see briefly. I think it's telling in two ways. It's telling that in, you know, in a way that like, and I don't want to look at this and be like, man, I relate. but there is a way in which sometimes you can sometimes as I as I implicate myself look at people it's the Instagram thing you look at people having fun

and being prettier than you and being beautiful and being more glamorous and you're like they must be me and you're like fuck these assholes like they're probably the worst um and then but I also think it's the fact that he's so empathetic to this girl, that he kind of, he puts his own loneliness and sadness and, you know, whatever

version of him at high school, that he's able to put that onto somebody else. Isn't like pure empathy, but it is sort of... It's projections still, though, because, like... People with eczema can also be mean. Agreed. He sees her as this shy girl with eczema, so she must be this angel. Like, it's him still projecting things that he may or may not be true onto this woman. It is, and that's true.

But I think there's also an element of he's still able to see other people. Right. You know what I mean? There is something. I try to see some people in a positive light. It's not like he's seeing everybody in the most negative light, or he's trying to, you know, his projection is still to him trying to understand. I don't mean to be, like, fully caping for, like, lonely old white janitors, but, like, it was what unlocked the movie for me this time was this sense of empathy for this person. And, you know, and watching this person as the old janitor walking down the halls and looking into the gymnasium where they're doing Oklahoma rehearsal and being sort of benignly envious of what they all have and that experience that they're all having.

I related to that. You know what I mean? I relate to that as somebody who looks back. I mean, Charlie Kaufman makes movies that are like relatable, so I don't think that's crazy. Well, and it's just like, but I have that sense of like, man, I should have done high school theater. I should have done college theater. You know what I mean? I don't want to overstate how much I relate to this old character.

No, because you have functional relationships. Right, right. But I think one of the things that succeeds about the movie is it allows you to empathize with this character to a degree in a way that I think that's my window into this movie. Otherwise, I have no window into this movie. Otherwise, I find myself feeling like, why are you rubbing my nose in this Charlie Kaufman? And I didn't this time. And I was happy for that. I think what he's intending to do is closer to your feeling of it than him trying. I don't think he's making a movie. where he thinks he's rubbing people's nose and misery. Yeah. The ice cream girls, though, there's... In the movie, I'm a little bit like, okay, so why are we doing this?

And then we have, like, the biggest, basically set piece of the movie where we have these, like, dual monologues going. In the book, it functions more for, like, a glitch in the Matrix, you know? These girls are telling Jesse Buckley, who is not a real person, that, you know, know the jig is up you might not be a real person yeah um and in the movie it's much more subtle in the movie yeah in the movie i think it's it's more about the imagery too it's like this flashback to the mid-century basically it's this real mid-century borderline pin-up uh yeah you know feminine image of these women uh which of course we later see the not dairy queen like ad with

the jingle which is like even further back in time it's like from the 30s you know and it's i i think what this functions for even though we see jesse buckley who seems like you know bushwick coated um she's wearing her sweater inside out you know you got it yeah um that his image of femininity has been informed by that type of iconography and Well, you see the way Tony Colette is dressed in the one scene where she's essentially her homemaker character from United States of Tara. With the dress and she's doing housework and, you know, full makeup and accessories and whatnot. But in that scene, too, she's like, that's one of the very more overt scenes where she's talking to Jesse Buckley.

And that's, you know, maybe is that the first time that the movie fully steps outside of itself where she's just like, I'm the reason he's like this I'm the reason why and she's just like at some point he just became so you know isolated from things and didn't want to do anything and she talks about the sort of the vicious

cycle of wanting to you know make him comfortable in the world but by also doing that then sort of pushing him farther and farther into his isolation um I think that's... Is that before or after Jesse Buckley is doing the loop

where she just keeps climbing the stairs and ends up back at the same place? I think it's before, but I could not swear to it. That all happens. I will say, I think the middle section of the movie, this is a movie that is ultimately, what, two hours and 20 minutes, something like that? 2.15, something like that. It could be a lot shorter if that middle section at the house were condensed a bit, because I think that does maybe repeat itself a little bit,

and we maybe could have gotten in and out of there quicker. While we're talking – Sorry. Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, while we're talking about Tony Collette, do we want to transition. Yes, let's do it now since you brought it up, and then we'll get into the whole Pauline Kale stuff.

Good. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, I'd rather do that. The first movie we have ever done in over 350 episodes of this podcast, where we're basically talking about the movie sequentially. Yes, that's so funny. Wild. A movie that, like, kind of begs you to just, like, cherry picket at random.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so it's our sixth Tony Colette movie. We have, as we've mentioned, been on a tear of Sixth Timers Club movies, particularly because we have so many actors and actresses who are on deck waiting for their next movie is going to be their sixth. If you hate the six-timers quiz, I hate to tell you, but you get used to it in the current day. But also, if you hate the six-timers quiz, good news, I'm switching it up this time. Because even I... I said I'm thinking of changing things.

I'm thinking of changing things. It was just with so many six-timers quiz ahead of us, I was just like, we've been doing the old format for so long. It had been getting a little predictable. I'd been getting a little stale. So, and I think also for Chris, too, I want to, as a quiz quiz. maker at heart. I, I want to, I want to throw curve balls. So what I am introducing, is this an all Rex Reed quote version? Uh, no, but that game has been churnin a churnin in my head for a while, so we'll see what comes of that. So, uh, this is, as I said,

six time, six, uh, Tony Colette movies. It started with, uh, evening, followed by in her shoes, enough said the way, way back, hereditary. And now I'm thinking of ending things. So what I decided to do for this is I am introducing the This Had Oscar Buzz trailer game. So I watched the trailers for all of these movies and I came up with short but, you know, short little quizzes for each trailer that will allow you, Chris File, to accumulate points. And we can keep track of points as we go so you can best your own record, which I think could be fun. The points are somewhat arbitrarily assigned to match the difficulty of what is being asked of you. I think this is a game that is best explained by doing it, so we will begin.

It is not very high concept. It's essentially, and again, I'm asking you questions about the most official version of the trailer. So if there is a teaser and a trailer, I'm asking you about the trailer. None of these had more than one trailer, so we don't have to talk about it. But in the future, if there are movies with multiple trailers, I'll let you know which one we're talking about. So we're going to start with evening. All right? Evening. So the very first question for one point was evening a trailer that featured voiceover, on-screen text, both or neither.

Do you know what I'm talking about what I mean, that? trailers tend to either be a voiceover being like she was a book editor with a heart of gold. Not like, not dialogue pulled from the movie, but there is a narrate more. Yeah, yeah, yes. On-screen text being, you know, what, you know. In a world, you know. But not spoken. Ken Burns Effect style.

Some have both, some have neither. What is it for evening? Evening, I am going to guess it is just on-screen text. It's both. You get a narrator, but it is augmented by on-screen text. All right. For one point, this is an easy one, obviously. From the author of...

Is it Michael Cunningham? No. Well, that is the question. But when it says, from the author of, what finishes that sentence? in the trailer? The hours. Yes. All right.

One point for you, for the hours. For five points if you get it cold, but I will probably have to give you hints, and so it'll be minus one point for every hint. What song is used in the trailer? Oh, man, I knew that we were going to go there. I don't think I'm going to get this cold, but I'll just say,

um, I can just say the song. I don't have to say the artist. Right. Okay. I'm not going to get it right. Sunny came home. No.

But your first hint, solo female artist. Yes. Would you like another hint or would you like to make another guess? I would like another hint just to see what these hints are going to be. Not this person's biggest hit or most notable song, but I believe was a, the the song after that okay

so relatively newer artist around then why can I think of nobody but Natasha Beddingfield but it's not Natasha Beddingfield

think of the vibe of evening too you're not going to get a Natasha bedding field yeah it's like Sarah McLaughlin it's like

not even Vanessa Carlton one another hand yeah All right. For three points, it'll earn you three points. This is a mononym artist. Dido. Yes. What's the song? Oh, oh, oh. So it's not thank you. It's, is it white flag? White flag by Dido. Three points for Chris. I'm very proud of you for getting that. All right. I should have been able to get, now that I know that it's white flag. It's hard to cold guess. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard to do.

I should have known that. All right. For two points, which actor speaks the first line in the trailer? In evening. Yes. And if you guess wrong, I will give you a hint for one point. Mamie Gummer. Not Mamie Gummer.

The hint is the line. The line is Harris, my only love. Oh, Claire Daines. No, it is not. It is Vanessa Redgrave. Oh, yeah. Old Claire Dane's. All right, there are 10 named cast members in the trailer.

You get one point for each one you get correct in order. In order? Yes, every one you name correct in order, you get one point. Oh, this is hard. Claire Daines. Claire Daines, that's a point. Who's the other sister with Tony Colette? Ooh, I don't remember.

And that's kind of like derail the whole thing. Because it's that person and then Tony Colette, I think. Or is Tony Colette the only daughter? I'll say Tony Colette. Tony Collette is correct. Second build. Great. Not helping me.

Who's third build? Patrick Wilson. No. No. I'm going to pretend there is no other sister. Okay. Patrick Wilson is not third build. Who's fourth build? Hugh Dancy. No. Who's fifth build? Hugh Dancy.

Yes. Smart. Smart. Smart. Who's sixth build? Glenn Close. No. Who's seventh build? With Merrill Streep. There is no with and there is no and. I will say that. At least in the trailer. Then Merrill Streep. No.

Okay. Who's eighth build? Merrill Streep. No. Who's ninth build? I'm reading too much into your expression. No, I think I probably missed Vanessa Redgrave already. Now I will say Patrick Wilson.

No. Who's 10th build? Merrill Streep. No, Glenn Close. Okay. I need to find a better way of doing this because like doing it. is fun and hard, and I deserve, I'm not going to say I deserve it hard. I'm going to say I deserve a difficult test.

But doing it one by one is not satisfying. So you got Claire Danes, you didn't get Tony Colette, or you got Tony Collette, Redgrave is third, Patrick Wilson is fourth, Hugh Dancy is fifth, you got that one. Natasha Richardson is the other sister who you're thinking of, six-billed. Seventh build is Mamie Gummer. Eighth build is Eileen Atkins. Ninth build is Merrill Streep, and 10th is Glenn Close. There's surprisingly no and.

All right, for two points, who says the last line in the trailer? Merrill Street. Yes, two points for you. The line is, we are mysterious creatures, aren't we? Better trailer than a movie. All right, on to In Her Shoes. Voiceover, on-screen text, both, or neither. Neither.

No. There is text, and I would also have accepted both because they do say the title of the movie out loud at the end. but I think it's mostly text, but either way you didn't get either. Second question, for one point, and you must get both of these to get one point. It says from the director of, and then it says two movies. L.A. Confidential. Yes. What other Curtis Hanson movie would they have said?

Eight Mile? Yes, very good. Curtis Hanson, from the director of L.A. Confidential and Eight Mile. And the writer of, this is for another point, and the writer of... Ooh, I forget who wrote that movie. No, no. Aaron Brockovich. It's Susanna Grant. Aaron Brockovich. There's your other point.

Okay. The next one is the song. Once again, five points, if you guess it cold. What's the song in the In Hershoes trailer? K. T. T. T. T. T. Stoll. Suddenly, I see. No, but it's a very good guess. It is a band of made of all men. This would be for four points.

Is it like, Jet? Are you going to be my girl? No, but I cannot tell you how proud I am of you making that guess. That's a very good trailer guess. That's like the type of song that you would use in a trailer to introduce Cameron Diaz's character. All right. For three points. Around the time of this movie, this band was all up in the Grammy's business,

or the Grammys were all up in this band's business. Not for the first time in their career. Oh, so it's like 05. I'll just say you two. It is you too. Can you guess the song without a further hint? Oh. Stuck in a moment you just can't get out of.

Yes, three points, Chris. Damn. That's really impressive. Yes, you two stuck in a moment. I mean, the lyrics you've got to get yourself together. That kind of lends itself to trailers. Uh-huh. For one point, which actor says the first line in the trailer?

Or for two points, rather, because then you can get the hints. Camera DS. No. The line is, there are women who have lace bras, silk thongs, thing designed to excite a man. A thong would look ridiculous. on me. Tony Collette. Tony Collette.

There you go. One point. For one point, and you must get all three in order. There are three named cast members in the cast. Cameron Diaz, Tony Collette, Shirley MacLean. That is a point for you. Very good. And then for two points, who says, what actor says the last line in the trailer?

Cameron Diaz. Cameron Diaz is correct. Two points. want to just take a flyer on what the last line is? I love you with my whole heart. No, no. I love you, my whole heart. It's not, it's a post, like, it's a stinger on the trailer.

It's after they say the title. It's when she says, we're a pair like Sonny and Cher, and Tony Colette goes, Sonny and Cher broke up, and then Cameron Diaz says, they remain quite close. And that's the final line in the show. All right. On to Enough Said. Trailer for Enough Said. voiceover, on-screen text, both or neither?

Neither. Nope, text. Great. All right, so there are technically two songs in the trailer, but I'm going to ask for, the one is just like indie music that probably was cheap, and there's, you would have no way of knowing it. So I'm going to ask you for the second song. Five points for a cold guess. Um Um

Macy Gray, I try No Um First hint It is Um It's a throwback Old School

Like not Contemporary pop music Uh huh I'm thinking of like The Shirels I'm thinking of the Ronettes I'm thinking of the Crystals.

The crystals, and then he kissed me. No. For three points, it's a solo male crooner. Oh. Frank Sinatra, call me irresponsible. You got Frank Sinatra. It's not call me irresponsible. For two points, the song is an interrogative.

Explain it for me because I'm stupid. It's a question. The song title is a question. Um Frank Sinatra question Tell me what you think about me Buy my own diamonds

And I buy my own rings Um I don't know I think I want the last hint Last hint The middle word in the title One two three four five six seven word title With the middle word word

is an action that you can do with your with your body. A violent action. It's a seven-word chorus, girl. It's a seven- Oh, it's not I get a kick out of you. It's not, but kick is the word. No points on this one. Ain't that a kick in the head?

It's ain't that a kick in the head, yes. No points, but you eventually got to it, yes. All right, for two points, which actor says the first line in the trailer? because I want to say Julia Louis Dreyfus, but I'm going to say Catherine Keener. Two points for the gentleman. It is Catherine Keener. The line is, so you're a masseuse. One point for every, so there are five named cast

members. One point for everyone that you get in the right order. And I'm just going to ask you to, like, give me the five, and then I'll tell you what you got right In effort of time, yes Okay Julia Louis Dreyfus James Gandalfini I should also, before you continue

I should say there's no and Okay Tony Colette Now to remember The other people in this movie Catherine Keener And Who plays her

X. No, there was someone else like Fred Armisen? Fred Armisen. I don't remember Fred Armisen's in the movie. It is Ben Falcone is Tony Collette's husband. That's the fifth build. So you got Julia Louis Dreyfus, right? You got James Gandalfini right. That's two. You mixed up the order of Catherine Keener and Tony Collette. It's Keener, then Colette, then Ben Falcone. Not named is either Tavi Gevinson, who plays the teen girl who's friends with Julia Louis Dreyf's daughter and do you know who plays Gandalfini's daughter Gandalfini and Keener's daughter in the movie?

I don't remember Eve Hewson before I knew who she was Oh okay Yeah right All right Two points for what actor Says the last line in the trailer

Gandalfini No for one point You'll get the line And it's oh I screwed up big time Julia Louis Dreyfus All right so five total points for enough set All right, the way, way back trailer.

Voiceover, on-screen, text, both or neither. Neither. Text. I will eventually get this question right. Yes. For two points, and I'm going to say that you can get them individually. It says from the studio that brought you, and then it says two movies. Little Miss Sunshine and Juno.

Yes. Damn. Come on, Fox Searchlight. All right, here's the song. There are, okay, so there are two songs I'm going to ask you. I've only heard of one of these bands. So I'm going to ask you for that one. I don't, I'm just going to say for five points if you can get the artist right, if you can get the band right.

I remember one of those songs, because it was like a very, like, indie acoustic band. another song You said there's two songs in that Yeah if you can get either one of them I'll give it to you But I've never heard of the second band Um Sugar Ray every day

Um for four points Not as famous as Sugar Ray Um One named band With like no Like no it's not like anybody's name It's just like a band Is it like lit my own worst enemy

It is not lit It is less famous than that. I randomly saw this band. This is not going to help you, obviously, but maybe I'll tell you the level of fame. I randomly saw this band on like a Thursday night, like free concert in Buffalo that they used to do in the summertime. It is definitely a band who like, people who are like into like music,

like alt rock music. They were most famous. I will say in the like aughts, I think. Like indie rock Otts. Single name. Yeah. Is it Jet? Are you gonna be my girl?

It's not Jet. I think we're down to what? One point or two points. One point. One point. It is a, the first part of this word is something that wind would do.

Blow. Yeah. no um i'll give you one more shot at it gust is it gust is it gusts is one point chris guster yes the song is called this could all be yours sure i don't know all right i was never a guster person i know who guster is that helps the other band was called fits in the tantrums i don't know if you oh right oh you know them yeah spark it's called spark i have no idea who fits in the tantrums are all right two points do you have anything to say about fits in the tantrums at all um i like that first album before they started making music basically just for commercials okay very good you've heard a lot

of fits in the tantrums i'll look them up after like a laundry detergent commercial okay in the past 10 years i'll look them up i'll look them up um two points for what actor says the first line Tony Colette No All right So for one point The line is Duncan on a scale of 1 to 10

What do you think you are? Correll Steve Correll One point Yep Seven named cast members You get one point apiece For each one that you get in order

There is an and Okay Um Steve Correll Sam Rockwell Tony Colette Uh, the kid, what was the kid's name? Um, Maya Rudolph, um, I'm going to forfeit sixth, and I'm going to say and Alice and Janie.

Okay, you get one point. You got Steve Carell right. Tony Collette is second build Third build is Allison Janney Fourth build is Anna Sophia Rob Annas Sophia Rob Fifth build is Sam Rockwell Sixth is Maya Rudolph And then it's and Liam James

Oh it's Liam James gets the and then it's alphabetical Oh I didn't even notice that Yeah I guess you got to be on the lookout for that Sometimes that'll happen All right. Two points for what actor says the last line. Of the trailer. Yes.

Janie. No. The line is, hold please. Hold. Hold there. Maya Rudolph. No. It's Liam James, because it's Liam James doing the gross Nat Faxon Ogle the Girl thing. All right. Only five points for way, way back, but that's all right. Hereditary. Um, voiceover, on-screen, text, both or neither. Neither.

Texts, so... I can't get this question. Uh, for two points, it's only one movie, but I'm going to give you two points for it. From the producer of... Another horror movie from A-24 at that point. I'll just say, not even a horror movie, but X Machina. No, it's the witch. Oh, yeah.

There is no song. so two points for what actor says the first line of the trailer Tony Colette No, here's the line The line is, come on Peter, here's your suit Gabriel Byrne Gabriel Byrne Remember it opens with the model of the house

And then it pushes in and then it's Gabriel Byrne going into Peter's bedroom All right, there are no named cast members in the trailer, but there are six pull quotes. Can you name the six outlets that are used for pull quotes? I mean, like, just name six outlets and we'll see how many you get right. All right, fine. Variety. Vanity Fair. The Hollywood Reporter.

deadline uh screen rant and i'll go goblin mode and say hollywood elsewhere my god this is hard it is hard in this day and age all the sites you see poll quoted you have never heard of in your life well you got two you got two points here you got vanity fair our friend and frequent guest, Richard Lawson. And then the Hollywood Reporter you got for David Rooney. You missed Time Out New York, Joshua Rothkopf, the AV Club, A.A. Dowd, IndiWire, Eric Cohn, and USA Today, Patrick Ryan. So two out of six is pretty good, I will say. It's certainly much more reputable than one Mr. Boo his Jeffrey Webb.

God. That's a jump scare. All right. Plus two points, if you can guess what. member says the last line. And out? No. The quote is, I just don't want to put any more stress on my family. Tony Colette.

Tony Collette. There you go. All right. Four points for the hereditary trailer. And now I'm thinking of ending things, which you may have actually watched this trailer before we started. Voiceover, on-screen text, both or neither. Neither. Text. I just, it's really hard to do a trailer without any. And I'm not counting the title, of course. I'm saying that, like, if there's any, right. Of course.

All right. This is for two points, but I am going to require that you get both. From the writer of... Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Two movies. Oh, and being John Malkovich. That's two points for you. Very good.

Another two points, and you must get both. And the director of... Senectekew, New York. And Anomalisa. Very good. Another two points. All right. There is no song, of course.

It would be very funny if there was a song. Two points if you get who says the first line of the trailer. Jesse Buckley? Don't overthink it. Jesse Buckley. Very good. The line is Jake, my boyfriend. There are no named cast members in this trailer.

But again, two points. If you can guess the actor, who says the last line of the trailer. Jesse Buckley. It is indeed, again, Jesse Buckley, very good. She probably says I'm thinking of ending things. No, she says I'm thinking of anythings earlier. Sort of how she does in the movie. She says maybe this is how it was always going to end.

That's the last line. All right. So, tallying it up, you get nine points for evening. You get nine points for in her shoes. That's 18. You get another five for enough said and five for way, way back. So that's 28. you get four for hereditary that's up to 32 and you got eight for i'm thinking of ending things bringing your total for the tony colette quiz to 40 we're going to find a way to keep track of these and we can see how well you do on the next six timers quiz did you like this would you like me to do this again yes yes it was maybe long but it's the first time that we've we can speed it up but i think it's i had fun i had fun making

Yeah. Okay. Back to the movie. Pauline Kale. This is also a scene where... What's her problem with Jenna Rollins? If you read enough Kale, like sometimes she, you can just tell when she was just not feeling it that day. Yeah.

I don't, I mean... She also was like famously, like, she has her favorites, but she's just like, she holds no sacred cows as the other thing. It's some... I think it's one of her, like, notorious pans that, you know... And certainly, a woman under the influence was not as universally praised then as it was now, it was considered much more divisive in its time, for a lot of the reasons that are repeated in this movie. And I don't think it is literally her review, but I think it is incredibly close. Like, I think they alter some of it.

How is it presented in the novel? I don't think that this is in the novel That would make sense that it's a... I don't remember this part because the part once they get to the school was so striking in the book because I don't think any of the Oklahoma stuff is there either.

I imagine a beautiful mind, not either. Yeah, I imagine the A Beautiful Mind stuff is Pyr Kaufman. Yeah, no. The Beautiful Mind stuff is so funny. I was amazed how many people at the time watched it and didn't get that that's what it's from. Because that is a direct lift from the movie, right?

It's a direct lift from the movie. And it's one of those things where once you realize that that's what's going on, and I had seen that part of the movie again, sort of semi-recently, so maybe that's helped me get it. But I remember when I watched that scene, I was like, the old age makeup in this is so bad. And so it was so funny to me that everybody is in like very, very visible stage old makeup, which looks very... Which looks very fake, the closer you get

to it. So, of course... But then, yeah, it's also like verbatim, I'm pretty sure. The whole thing about, like, only in the language of love is, you know, mathematics, whatever. But it all goes back to this idea that I think Kaufman is incorporating in terms of

media consumption shaping people's worldview. Because, like, as we've already seen with this character, he is, you know, not really, doesn't really have any personal interactions. You know, he lives basically in his entire head at all times. He doesn't, you know, interact with real, living, breathing people. So it's like his vision of who he's supposed to be. He's sold this Bill of Rights. He is told this is what it's not Bill of Rights, but yes, you know what I mean. I do. We've all been sold

a bill of rights in this country, honey. maybe we won't even fucking have that anymore um he's sold his bill against and he's he you know it's the thing that we talk about when we talk about incels they believe that they are supposed to have a woman they are supposed to they're owed this yes they will be treated as if they are a great man getting a tribute like at the end of a like the Nobel Prize And, you know, and, of course, he ends up doing lonely room from Oklahoma, and, like, it is rather chilling. And, you know, you can see how someone, the point is someone like this person could watch Judd in Oklahoma singing lonely room and getting entirely the wrong message from it, you know. Well, also that there is this pervasive thing in media, whether it's an Oscar-winning best picture, or it's a jingle for a fucking ice cream company of telling you what men are, what women are, what our relationships are supposed to be, that you can pick up this like messaging throughout, and it does form a person's view of the world.

What I found particularly striking is, you mentioned, he sings Lonely Room from Oklahoma, which is Judd's sort of self-pitying solo. Depending on the production definitely implies a certain level of violence. Yes, yes. Our friend and a past and future guest, Patrick Vale, played the role of just. Judd in the 2019 Broadway, the so-called sexy Oklahoma, horny Oklahoma. But one of the things that that... Intermission Chile, Oklahoma. Intermission Chile in Cornbread, Oklahoma.

Good cornbread. Mary Test is Oklahoma. So one of the things about that production, besides being, you know, horny and featuring cornbread, is the Judd character is... somewhat re-envisioned and is very much this kind of in-cell, is sort of painted as this kind of in-cell character, right? That he is bullied by Curley, that he is, he's not let off the hook. He still behaves sort of creepily towards, I can't remember who the lead female's

character's name is, but played by Rebecca Naomi Jones. Lori. Everybody, go see Blue Moon now in theaters. I mean, Blue Moon is so good. Who wants to watch a whole musical about a guy named Curly? It's such a good movie. More and more, I'm thinking Ethan Hawk has a shot at getting nominated for that. I hope so.

Listener, go listen to me on a friend of former guest Kyle Amato show, Hawkcast talking about Blue Moon. Do it. But I think it's interesting because, I don't, I mean, this, that production had been sort of in the ether for a while. It had been, you know, workshopped and whatnot for a couple of years before that Broadway revival. So maybe Charlie Kaufman was at the very least aware of it. But it's an interesting choice of, you know, a song to exist within a year of that Broadway revival.

And of course, I immediately texted Patrick and was like, you know, I had to pause the movie and go listen to him, perform the song. because he's so good at it. It's also, you know, this character is kind of trapped in the mid-century. His worldview, especially his view of, like, what women are supposed to be, is this very, like, Americana, like, 1950s rhetoric that, like, is still infecting the culture. But you also see him watching this very sort of, like, contemporary rom-com. that is credited to Robert Zemeckis in a way that I find very funny. Because it's very much, it's very much not a Robert Zemeckis thing.

And I can't, I don't even know if Robert Zemeckis has ever directed a rom-com. But it's very funny to sort of like take that little dig. Because it's this rom-com that we see that it's like, the man behaves poorly and like gets this woman fired from her job. The man gives this big declaration of love at the, at her job at the diner. and gets her fired. And it's supposed to be charming, and at the end, she's basically like, oh, you. She's like, you're an idiot, and then she holds his hand, you know, because he loves her. And there's a point in the car where he's talking to Jesse Buckley's character, where she

momentarily is played by the girl from the rom-com, which obviously, you know, underlines things. But so I agree, I take your point about like the mid-century, but I think there's also a commentary by Kaufman on the fact that like these ideas from the mid-century have been reinforced and underlined in, you know, these sort of postmodern ways. They're sort of like just because the characters are quirkier now or that the girl is feisty or whatever, that we are still kind of reinforcing all these, all these same notions. It is definitely all of Kaufman's films in one way or another act as media criticism. Eternal Sunshine may be the least of them, but like adaptation certainly does.

Being John Malcovich does, Synecich really does. I guess Anomalisa, maybe it does, but I can't remember. I don't... Unpleasant movie. I don't find myself thinking about Anomalisa that much. I'm thinking of ending my relationship

with anomalies. But certainly at least most of Charlie Kaufman's movies act as media criticism. And I think one of the more interesting angles on I'm thinking of ending things is the way that it acts as media criticism. So, and I think that's present in a lot of what you were just talking about. Can we talk about the Dream Ballet? Because like Oklahoma, this has a Dream Ballet. When dream ballets, like, came back into the conversation because of maestro,

did people remember that there's one and I'm thinking of ending things? I remembered that that was a thing that got a lot of attention. There was also, there was, before that, there was a revival of On the Town on Broadway, that I remember people really liked the way that that dealt with the Dream Ballet in that. Um, so I feel like that was a thing that had been a little bit more in the ether, or maybe it was just me sort of like Bader Meunhoffing myself into like I had seen something with a dream ballet and now all of a sudden I'm sort of noticing it everywhere because I think of around that same time is there's a dream ballet and singing in the rain, right? Or am I making that up? Yeah. So I just recently seen that on the big screen for the first time around that time just before the pandemic. So like, um, I feel like, again, it was either. either in the ether or I had Bottermine Hof to myself, but either way, I definitely remember people singling it out that like, listen, this is a movie that has everything, even a dream ballet, it has an animated pig, it has Pauline Kale monologue, it has a dream ballet. It is the Stefan of 2020 films. Okay, so they get into the high school. We are going in chronological order much, much more than we normally do. Exactly. We did the ending.

Jesse Plymins kind of disappears into the high school, and we never really see him much again, right? Besides, like, parts of the... The very closing. Yeah. And then so, Jesse Buckley enters the high school, and this is the point where her character seems to be finally aware that she's a projection, because then she talks to the janitor, and at some point during their conversation, she starts. explaining to him why she's there. And she's there because she, and she had told the story, the meet-cute version of their meeting at dinner with the parents, right? The version where they meet at trivia and he says something that's, you know, reasonably clever and they start talking and she's charmed by all of his weirdness. But then now they're in the high school

and she's telling the janitor what, you know, essentially what really happened. Right. And sometimes, you know, you take somebody's number because, you know, to take somebody's phone number because you're just trying to be polite and whatever. But the truth of the matter is he was, he was one person that she met one time in her whole life that she probably forgot about, you know, decades before, you know, the end of her life or whatever. And so she seemingly is aware. And I, I. don't think the janitor is literally even in the high school at this point he's probably just like in his car right imagining all of this and

but sort of then it that transfers into this dream ballet which is a battle between Jesse Plemons is like a Jesse Plemons stand in it's essentially what

Curley and Judd right but it's it's more no it's more unnamed woman and Jake right because it's this next tier in the reality it's kind of like as you say

a battle to like hold on to the reality but he ends up in like a knife fight with a guy right yeah because then it becomes well I mean he's like tragic heroic another projection

yeah but yes the ballet part of the dream ballet is him and the woman yes um It is, again, you know, in the media criticism angle of it, it is a commentary on the ways in which, like, literally, movies used to elevate heterosexual relationships to, I don't think Kaufman is making any kind of a queer commentary, but I'm just saying. I think in the Dream Ballet of Oklahoma, it's that Curly gets stabbed to death by Judd, and then Judd carries her off. But it's, yes, I think that's probably true.

But it's just this notion that, like, in these Hollywood tales that, like, these relationships were elevated to this level of the almost, like, heavenly, that these dream ballets happen in this sort of nether plane that is somewhat is divine, essentially. And, again, it's sort of the culture. you know over-promising to people who then can end up incredibly frustrated, disillusioned, lonely, sad, you know, crushed by the lack of all of this in their lives. Very well done. You know, I love dancing in a movie. Even the worst of movies, I think, can be momentarily burdened. Made better through the art of dance. I am the person who, you know, gives one star to Argyle because it has a full, so you think you can dance style contemporary dance number.

More movies should have dream ballets. Joe, what's a movie that we think would be made better with a dream ballet? I mean, the brutalist, certainly. Yeah. I don't know why that was the first thought that I had. What's a, like, movie that I didn't really care for that, like, maybe it had? a dream ballet um you did not care for the testament of anne lee and well that are not not dream ballet i was going to say that movie has plenty of dream ballet um that movie um but yeah rental family

rental family couldn't have been made worse couldn't have been made worse by a dreambelly we we strangely seem to like that movie less than other other people are giving that movie a pass are you are you seeing that that's an i mean that doesn't surprise me it's a well-intentioned movie It's a well-intentioned movie with no real tension where all conflict resolution happens in the first, like, 30 minutes of the movie. I don't know. Maybe I take back well-intentioned. I do find the movie to be a little smug. Not how it's by Fraser introing it the way that it does.

That's true. Was there any... Sorry, are we... Let's wrap up the movie talk so we can talk about... Well, let's talk about the performers, too, because we have two... lead stars of this movie that are in the Oscar hunt this year in Jesse Buckley and Jesse Plymonds. Yes. Okay.

What do you make of, now that you've seen Bagonia, what do you make of the Jesse Plemons Oscar Buzz? Because it has definitely died down in recent weeks. And it did and it was doing so. I think that movie will continue to die down. I like the movie

fine. There are some people who quite like the movie, I will say. But I think both of us are a little nonplussed or a little unenthused by it while still liking it but there are people who like like it quite a bit more than we

Yeah I can't really pinpoint a ton that I don't I think it's just like the thing that keeps me from loving it is maybe just a taste thing as much as I love Jorgos Lanthamos it feels like anybody could have kind of taken that script

and you know made a movie I don't know it it feels awful brand, in a way, to me, that script for him. That's interesting. I don't necessarily, I think you and I are dissatisfied by that movie in different ways, though.

Yes. Because I don't agree with that, and I also don't like the ending, and you do like the ending. I do like the ending. The ending at least got me to laugh. You definitely are among, I think there's a lot of people who really, even there are people who like the movie, but love the ending. I don't know what my problem was. But yeah, I remember hearing a lot of pre-release buzz for Plymonds over the summer as we were sort of approaching festival season, people being like, you know, Jesse Plemons is so fantastic in the movie, I think he could win.

I don't see that in the movie. I don't see that in the movie, and I certainly don't see it in the race as it is. I don't think it's a bad performance. I just don't think it's the kind of dynamic. lead character that wins Oscars. Certainly not in a year with Michael B. Jordan and Sinners and DiCaprio win one battle after another

and Sholome and Marty Supreme. I don't see Plemons being able to compete with those guys. Bologna is a shared weight thing and he's, I mean, not that like DiCaprio isn't a shared weight, but I don't know. Yeah, I agree. I think also for like Jesse Plemons, someone who is, like, so very clearly going to win an Oscar someday.

I don't know if there would be the rush to anoint him for something like Bagonia. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably right. I love Jesse Buckley on the other hand. I've been on the Jesse Clemens train since probably other people, and I realize people who love him from TV have loved him. Well, it's interesting. You not watching Breaking Bat gives you an interesting.

perspective on this because... I watched the first season. Right, but he doesn't show up in the first season. Well, there you go. He shows up much later and plays just the most hateable character.

Why did I think that he was like the sun? No. No. He's not the sun. He shows up later as a kind of foil for the Aaron Paul character

who ends up just doing some real dastardly shit. and you really, really, really hate this guy. He's very good in it. He's very good in it. But, yeah, no, he's a great actor, and I really liked him in Begonia quite a bit.

But Jesse Buckley, on the other hand, is a different story. I know that, like, there's, you know, history would tell us not to talk this way. But, like, she's the only person. She's the only person I will end. entertain talking about this way at this early stage of the game, because it really does not

seem like she has much in the way of competition. I'm sure at some point, somebody will emerge as the second place stalking horse, oh, you know, watch out for, somebody's going to win that other Golden Globe, you know what I mean? But right now for Hamlet... I mean, I hope it's Amanda Seifred, but... And I hope it's Rose Byrne. Our constant... Are they, are they, are Are they putting, if I had legs, I'd kick you in comedy at the clubs? I think so. I think they are. I hadn't seen that confirmed or anything.

I don't know if I've seen it confirmed, but that seems where everybody else is sort of slotting her. And it makes sense. I guess that is a dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark comedy. I mean, I laughed. Yes, of course. Yes, same. I think she's so tremendous in that. I love that movie so much.

I wish I could get to love with that movie. I'm surprised that you can't. I don't know what it, I don't know. I think I needed a baseline in terms of that movie. And what, what are, what are the rules? What's the goalposts of what is surreal and what is real in this movie? I needed some, I also like, much respect to Patty Cakes, the Danielle McDonald's stuff in that movie. It's, it's the weakest part of that movie.

But I also don't think it's enough of the movie. to really, like, harm it in a way? Do you know what I mean? I just wished it was a different actor in that role. Again, all respect to paddicakes. I was going to say, man, just like patty cakes getting catch and strays. No, I really love that movie. But I also don't think...

I have nothing against that movie. Good movie. But I think whether Seifred or Roseburn or somebody else wins that Golden Globe, I don't think there's real competition for Jesse Buckley. She's really tremendous in Hamnet. And it's also, not only is she tremendous, but, like, all of the intangibles sort of break her way. She's playing an incredibly sympathetic – well, actually, she's playing a sympathetic character, but I don't think it's quite so obvious. Like, I think that character kind of works against sympathy in some ways, where she's not an incredibly easy character for other characters to sort of get along with.

Obviously, you sort of take her side when, like, Emily Watson as her mother-in-law is, like, you know, being obstinate with her. and whatever. Emily Watson, I'm just going to, every time I get a chance to say it, because it's not too late. If you're going to nominate Hamnet for things, please consider Emily Watson. She's so good in that movie. I love your perspective of

like we should not be ruling things out at this stage, though this is airing in December, so like maybe we'll be entering the... We'll be past Golden Globe nominations by this point. You're right. And I think you are you are right and good for like things of like your predictions on the Angler pundits page are less predictive and more stumping.

Or it's a mix of both. I got to judge those up at some point soon. I think there's value in that. All that being said, Jesse Buckley is winning an Oscar. Yeah. It's and it's, I mean, she's great in the movie. This is the thing I don't like is that we're like,

well, she's winning. We don't need to talk about it. Right. Talk about it. I think we should talk about it because she's great in this movie. And I think she has, like, again, another high degree of difficulty that she's... And the more we talk about it, the less we fall into the trap of seeing Hamnet as this kind of dark star interloper that's out to steal Paul Thomas Anderson or Ryan Coogler's Oscars from them. I see you piss some people off with your column.

I mean, the people I pissed off are the Hamnet fans who see. to think like I was, I was... I don't think your headline helped you, but I was creating, I was, I was, seemed to think like I was creating villainy. What all I'm saying is, like, this thing, this is happening. No, I think what you were saying is we don't need to do the thing that would be the most internet obvious thing to do, which is to turn the not cool movie into some type of bogeyman, as happens every year.

Like, in shining a light on this, my hope. was to kind of shame people out of participating in it. It's just like when the, when the creation of an Oscar villain seems like it's this obvious, I was hopeful, I still am hopeful that people will sort of realize the path that they're walking down and being like, why are we doing this? Or maybe realize the gift that we have this year and that we have a lot of really great movies on the table. I currently don't see any movie that is projected to,

be in the Oscar, in real Oscar contention. There are stuff that, like, people are predicting to make best picture that I'm like, eh. I mean, there's definitely a very clear, not to pick on this movie. I know people are also getting butt hurt about, like, people not liking this movie. But, like, if Frankenstein gets into Best Picture, we have a booger in the lineup. I'm sorry. But even the people who are predicting Frankenstein as a Best Picture nominee, as I currently am,

I don't think are really seeing it as a contender to win. And I think if you're talking about what's in the top echelon right now, and again, this closes off nothing, everything should be on the table. But right now, the most, the top of that card seems to be some combination of sinners, one battle, Hamnet, Marty Supreme, sentimental value. Yes. those five with it was just an accident around there and um with you know some other things then you get into what of the netflix movies you know are going to do it i have been steadfast and predicting train dreams because there's no reason for me not to um um oh jesse buckley is why we're talking about this yes so keep talking about jessie buckley and her performance

because it will, don't fall into the trap of being like... Just because we're pretty sure she is going to win that it makes it boring. And just because she's playing a grieving mother does not mean that this movie was engineered to win Oscars. That's a trap. You're falling into a trap. Part of what you're also calling out, it's not like there haven't been disingenuous, critical reads of this movie. Like, from the festival premiere, there were disingenuous reads of this movie by critics that... I'm going to also tell you something.

We don't have to do this. Just because you think the movie's not cool. We don't have to do this. Paul Thomas Anderson has not made a movie that has not had the Academy Awards in its prospectus on some level since... When? Since Boogie Nights? Like, if Boogie Nights... I don't really know if I agree with that, but...

I'm not saying that Paul Thomas Anderson makes movies for the Oscars. I'm saying in the general sort of studio apparatus, like the greater plan for those movies, the Oscars are factored into all of those, all of them. And I don't necessarily, that's not a bad thing. But Paul Thomas Anderson is not this person who like makes art and then falls ass backwards into Oscar nominations. That's not how it happens. Like that's... Well, and you're not yelling at Paul Thomas Anderson.

No. You're yelling at the horde, the hive. I get it. I get it. I don't necessarily agree, but like, I get it. We don't have to have... We can have that argument some other time. But I just...

We've had it before. We'll have it again. I feel like there are people who sort of put a halo on him because they like him. And they don't want... And they want to be like, what? He's not like whoring himself for Oscars like some other people. And it's like, we're all playing the same game here, guys. Like, we really are.

I can, you know, the argument for Sinners is different because Sinners was a spring movie that is a vampire movie. Like, you know, that is a little bit of a different thing. Like Paul Thomas Anderson doing a Pinchon adaptation starting Leonardo DiCaprio, the Oscars are not, the Oscar buzz is not accidental here, guys. Like, this is not something that, like, was sprung on him last minute. I'm just saying. And it doesn't have to be. We don't have to do this. We have a lot of really great movies, you know.

Anyway, Jesse Buckley. We're just basic for impact. Did, I'm thinking of ending things get any kind of precursor anything? Like significant precursor? Anything. Anything. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about the director's guild.

Both Plymonds and Buckley were Gotham nominated. This is, okay, there's two guilds that, uh, nominated this movie that I think they in like total deserving context both the art directors guild and set decorators Society of America nominated this movie for contemporary design I think that is smart

I think that's good I think design is definitely the most apparent avenue for a craft you know for a craft honor for this movie I mean, because, like, as much as I'm, like, not into the Easter egginess of this movie, like, it is so meticulously designed and crafted that, like, it does call attention to itself. I want to talk about the Gothams, though, because we sort of, we breeze past that briefly. They are both nominated.

Jesse Plemons is nominated in Best Actor, along with Baby Boy John McGarrow for First Cow. What a lovely man. Jude Law for the Nest Rock on Both of those movies being this had Oscar Buzz movies Chadwick Bozeman for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom

And then the winner was Riz Ahmed for Sound of Metal Both Chadwick Bozeman And Rizamette were nominated for the Oscar We obviously all Remember how the Chadwick Bozman Of it all shook out

Jesse Buckley is nominated Best Actress alongside Carrie Coon Ness, Francis McDormand, eventual Oscar winner, Eugen Yun, eventual Oscar winner for Minari, and the winner in that category was Nicole Bihari for Miss Juneteenth. I like both of those choices for one. Those are really great lineups.

Yes, they are. Both Loss are very this had Oscar buzzcoded. And the breakthrough actor category that year was Kingsley Benedere winning over Sidney Flanagan and Never Rarely Sometimes Always, Orion Lee in First Cow, Kelly O'Sullivan in St. Francis, who was so good in that movie. And then Jeanne is so good at one night at Miami. And then Jasmine Bachelor in The Surrogate.

My friend Jasmine Bachelor. Yay! I forgot about that. Yes, that's awesome. We went to college together. Hey, girl. Honestly, 2020 awards season was weird, obviously. But is this maybe one of the last years that I was purely like, Gotham's good?

Because, like, they did, like, because, like, because, like, they did, like, become. because they're playing to our taste or something. Like, when I say this is Oscar Buzz coded, I don't mean something that would end up on the show. I mean our taste. That is true, and they did, like, their best feature winner is ultimately Nomadland, but this was before they had removed the budget cap, right?

This is before they had, like, removed standards. Their tribute awards were, were pretty decently under control they give an ensemble tribute to trial of the Chicago 7 they gave a Made in New York award to Jeffrey Wright

I support just on principle giving Jeffrey Wright awards for just being Jeffrey Wright so like that's fine and then annually they gave tribute awards to the late Chadwick Boseman Viola Davis

Steve McQueen who that year had made the small acts The Small Axe films, and then Ryan Murphy. So, you know, they were working their way to do something. What was the Ryan Murphy one attached to even? I'm trying to think of, like, the only Ryan Murphy thing, well, what were the, the Ryan Murphy things I remember watching in lockdown were like the most unwell things. It was like the politician and Hollywood and Ratchet and like all of those things.

I know, I know, I was trying to think of like, I was trying to think of like, I was trying to think. of like, certainly, like, the Versace miniseries was well before. Was Pose? Pose might have been a going concern at that point. But, like, because they had started doing television awards at this point, too, for the Gotham, before they spun those off into their own thing. I don't know, man. I just don't know. Anyway. Should we move on to the IMDB game? Yeah. Why don't we? Why don't you tell the listeners what the IMDB game is? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue, and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's the IMDB game. It sure is. tell you something funny? Yes. In the in the churn from trying to do this episode yesterday and doing one today, I completely lost track of my IMDB game selection. So hold on one second. I remembered mine because it's not as evil as it sounds. Well, not as evil as it sounds is my life's motto. So not as evil as it sounds. The tagline for I'm thinking of ending things.

All right, I got it. Would you like to give or guess first? I will guess first. All right, for you, I went down the Jesse Buckley route, Wild Rose, which we will get you to do a 180 on like we've done on I'm thinking of ending things. Co-stars. I can't support Wild Rose because it inspired Whitney from. Real House Wives of Salt Lake City to brand her Whitney Wild Rose. Is that for real?

I think it's something to do with her is Whitney Wild Rose, and I just can't. She saw the motion picture Wild Rose? No, I'm just, I'm being a dick. Got it, got it. You were so convincing. Wow. Much like Whitney on Real House of Salt Lake City, I am convincing. Co-starring with Jesse Buckley in Wild Rose is Sophie Okaneda.

Sophie Okanedao. Any television? No television. Hotel Rwanda. Correct. Her Oscar nomination. Wild Rose. No, not Wild Rose. What's that movie called? Oh, Oscar nominee for screenplay.

Stephen Knight wrote it. Shuella Etjiafor is in it. Fuck. What is it called? It's about a hotel. I can't give you hints yet. It's another movie about a hotel with Sofia Canato. All right, I guess I'll put a pin in that, but that's going to really bother me until I get it.

Eon flux. Eon flux is incorrect. Fuck, okay. That's too wrong. Your years are 1995, 2008, and 2013. Okay, so not that movie. Can you tell me what that movie is just to let me off the hook? Dirty pretty things.

Dirty pretty things. Thank you with Audrey Tutu. Okay, so my years are 95. 95, 08, 13. 95 has got to be something that just like never crossed upon. 95, you probably don't realize this is her. It is a comedy sequel. Is it very?

This is where we're like, we need to get something else on her. Is it very British? No, it is very racist. comedy sequel very racist like there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a whole franchise of racist oh the franchise ends here the the original is also very problematic

but for a different reason oh that's interesting notoriously problematic for a different reason So is the sequel, one of those, like, such and such goes to area of the world in the air? Oh, is this Ace Ventura when nature calls? It is, it is. Yeah, I got it. I figured it out.

All right. 08 and 2013, you say? Yes. Oh, 8. Is it an Oscar movie? No, but we could do it on this show. Oh. It's an ensemble movie.

It's an ensemble movie. is it English No, it's American It's American Is it like Indie ensemble? It is a Fox Searchlight film Oh

Did it play like Sundance Do you think? I don't think so I think it played Tiff But hold on Okay Fox Searchlight Indie

World premiere Toronto International Film Festival Indie ensemble comedy No drama Is it one of those like Rodrigo Garcia Like Lives of Pippily

Kind of thing Definitely more well known than that It is a female ensemble In which Is she in the Jane Austen book club? No five women build above the title Sophie Okanato is fifth

Casa Delos Babies No Better more known movie than this Five women Okanato is built above the title Are they like Three of these women have all been nominated And one of them has won

In Best Supporting Actress Oh fascinating Sophie Okinae, is one of those nominees? Yes. Okay. One of them has won subsequent to being in that movie? Before. They all were nominated before.

Rachel Weiss. No. Catherine Zeta Jones. No. Jennifer Connolly. No. Marsha Gay Hardin. No.

You're getting colder. That's not Jennifer Hudson, I can't imagine. The first build actress was nominated for supporting actress alongside someone else from her movie who won. Sorry, say that one more time. The first billed actress in this movie, in which Southio Canato is billed fifth, was nominated for the same movie as the winner of supporting actress, her co-star. In her year that she was not. They were nominated for the same movie. They were nominated for the same movie previous to 2008, and her co-star won.

Yes. So you're talking about Helen Mirren? No. No, because, of course, neither one of them won. We're talking about Queen Latifah. Yes. Okay. Queen Latifah first build, Sophia Canada fifth build.

And there's another Oscar winner. The Oscar winner, you said, came before 2008. Yes. an Oscar winner in supporting actress Okay Bear with me I will get this I will

You will get this I will get this I will sell this house It's not Angelina Jolie It's not Julietepinosh Is it Diane Weist It is not Diane Weist you are getting Colder.

Colder. Colder. You do not need to go far back from 2008. Tilda? No. Is it Jennifer Hudson? Yes. I said it's obviously not Jennifer Hudson, and you stood there stone-faced.

You let me be wrong. I didn't hear you say it's obviously not. Okay. Jennifer Hudson, Queen Latifah, Sophia Okinao, the Secret Life of Bees. The Secret Life of Bees. you got there. Finally. Okay.

And your last movie, 2013. 2013, this is a director who, I think now is kind of thoroughly considered positively, but there was a years spanning, like, internet-led rehabbing of the wide perceptions of this director's career. and a lot of generous reads on certain movies. I don't think this movie has a generous read on it by anyone. So this director made like straight up crap for a while, and then at some point people are like, oh, but what if he's good? But what if we like him, yeah.

What if we like him? I think the things that got this director on this director makes crap, I think people were unfair, and then that director made some crap, including this movie. Including this movie in 2013. Which I don't think I actually finished. Oh, wow. Is this Tyler Perry?

No. Because you were describing Tyler Perry. No, this director, like, made greatness that, like, no one would argue with. After making a lot of crap that people then... No, before. Oh, before. So they, like, lost. They lost their fastball pretty severely at some point.

This, I think, was the drop-off. This was when... Frears? No. American? Yes. Think genre. Think genre. Horror?

Yes, and. Carpenter? No. Carpenter was always regarded well. Not like Paul W.S. Anderson or something. No, no, no, no, no, no. She's never made a good movie. But there was a while there where people were, like, in the, like, vulgarautourism moment where I think people were supporting them.

Who has a very loud online fan base who, even when you're like, yeah, but that movie was bad, they're like, we don't care. I mean, so many. That applies to so many filmmakers. But, like, horror slash action? this movie I think you would categorize as an action sci-fi movie but this director has made horror movies made their name making horror

not Ramey Ramey was always sort of well regarded not West Craven this like undenied great movie this director was Oscar nominated for and has never been Oscar nominated needed since. And that happened in like the 90s?

80s? The very late 90s. The very late 90s. Okay. I mean, not M. Knight Shamaelon. M. Night Shamaelan. Okay. So, Sofio, Canadian, win, and Amnich, Shama.

Is this after Earth? After Earth. Nobody is stumping for after Earth in the Sharmelon. No, yeah, no, I totally should have got that that's who you were describing, because yes, of course, especially because you don't like a lot of the late Shyamalan movies as much as yes, no, you're exactly right. I mean, he made this in the happening.

Like, he's made some objective. He definitely has. He definitely has. Except old is a masterpiece and I love it. All right. For you, Chris, we're taking a while with the games. You know what?

It took us two days to... We're thinking of not ending things. We're thinking of making this go forever. You know what? It's a long movie. For you, I went down the Charlie Kaufman route to a movie that I've never seen, actually. I talked about how my favorite Charlie Kaufman movie is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which is, of course, movie he made with director Michelle Gondry, was not the first movie he made to Michelle Gondry. He made a movie called Human Nature, where...

No one talks about this movie. Nobody ever talks about this movie. A woman is in love with a man, in love with another woman, and all three have designs on a young man raised as a chimpanzee, is the log line for human nature. Never saw it. But the first build star in that film is one Ms. Patricia Arquette, who we've somehow never done an IMD game for one television show for Patricia Arquette.

Medium. Yes. guess because she's done a bunch of television. So, yes. She got a bunch of Emmy nomination. She won an Emmy for that show, right? She sure did for playing who? Sylvia Brown. Imagine I'm smoking an e-cigarette.

She smokes an e-cigarette and medium? No, but Allison Dubois did in the episode of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, where she tells Kyle Richards that her husband will never satisfy her. See, you go to her and I go to Sylvia Brown. Yes. Boyhood. Boyhood. True romance.

True romance. You're three for three? Are you going to get a for? I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. You're treating it like a no-hitter now in baseball. No, I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking.

I'm not psyching myself out. I'm not going to do that again. I've done that a few times recently. It hasn't happened. Patty. It's not television. It is a lot. a feature film. Patricia.

Patricia Arraquette. Arquette. Patricia Arquette. Patricia Arquette and Lady Gaga should make a movie together. Oh, I would love that. I would love it.

Patricia was also in... I'm just going to guess Stigmata. My friend, you are four-for-four with Stigmata. Yes. Oh, my God. First of all, hasn't a lot. happen on the show in ages, in a dog's age. But for me, it's like you're going back to maybe 2019. Oh, I don't think it's quite that far, but it's, this is very good. I got to say, I was like,

I'm just going to say stigmata because I was, I'm not going to sit here and like go through her whole filmography in my mind trying to guess what it is. I'm just going to throw it away because I'm not going to get it. And clearly, it's a really good guess because there are very, very few movies where Patricia Arquette was the first build star. And I think that, that does a whole lot of the work. Sigma-a movie does better as a trailer than as a movie. That movie sucks, but the trailer was good. I agree.

All right. Let's get out of here. All right, we are thinking of actually finally maybe ending things. That is our episode. If you want more, ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at thisheadoscarbuzz.com. You can also follow us on Instagram at ThisHad Oscar Buzz, and then please, please, support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash this, had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? I realize that I don't shout out my work at Vulture on this podcast enough, and I should. You can find my work at Vulture.com,

where I am doing awards coverage and the Cinematrix. We recently had, our good friend Fran Hoffner did a live Cinematrix with Edgar Wright. That was very, very fun. And then Edgar also made a Cinematrix grid for us. O-G celebrity fans, Edgar Wright. We found out early on that he would just email us about the Cinematrix. So that's been fun to watch that come into fruition. You can also find me on Letterboxed in Blue Sky at Joe Reed. Read spelled R-E-I-D.

And I do a Patreon-exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore called Demi, Myself, and I. That can be found at patreon.com slash Demi-M-E-P-O-D. And you can follow me on Letter. Box and Blue Sky. I will post any work that I do on Blue Sky. A Christofy File, that's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave and Salis

and Gavin Miebius for their technical guidance when we need it. And Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate like and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So please tell yourself, I'm thinking

of reviewing things and give us that fifth star. That's all for this. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. Go see Hamnet. Yes.