This Had Oscar Buzz - 371 – The Founder

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

This week, we got one of the most requested episodes finally on the feed. In 2016, Michael Keaton had already had two comeback seasons on the Oscar trail with both Birdman and Spotlight. Neither earned him Oscar gold but our sights were on The Founder, a retelling of the story of McDonalds and the man the made it … Continue reading "371 – The Founder"

Oh, oh, wrong house. No, the right house. We want to talk to Marilyn Hack, Millen Hack, and Cran. Dick Pooh. We got an order. Six mixers. Do anyone in particular? McDonald's.

Care for a little tour? We wanted something different. And that's one of my brother here. Comes up with one of his brilliant ideas. Orders ready in 30 seconds, not 30 minutes. Unique, original. There's nothing like this. It's revolutionary.

It's exactly what it. It's revolutionary. What is that? The Golden Archers. It's a way to make the place stand out. Huh? There should be McDonald's everywhere. Franchise the damn thing. Mr. Crug. Franchise? Franchise.

McDonald's can be the new American church. And it ain't just open on Sundays, boys. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's going back in time to save humanity from itself. And by that, I mean this podcast. What if we went back in time? and stop ourselves from doing this podcast. How would the world be different? Who would be president now if we had never started doing this at Oscar buzz?

I wonder. I wonder about that. Would COVID have happened? What would have been the pandemic instead of COVID in 2020 if we had never done this at Oscar buzz? A butterfly flapped its wings in Columbus and Harlem. And years later, Zohran Mamdani. and Donald Trump are best friends. So, uh, I don't, I can't get into this.

I can't. Uh, every week on this head, Oscar as well, talk about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Awarder aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my unpowdered milkshake, Joe Reed. The, just the term powdered milkshake.

just sounds so incredibly unappetizing, even though... Is that not what, like, Swiss-Miss, like, hot chocolate is? Are they... Is it all that different? Well, but in the making of hot chocolate, now, again, there is, there's the divide between... Does this make this palatable for you? There's a divide between actual food science and, um, the, the surface level, surface-level appearance-based pseudoscience that allows me to consume food comfortably. The adding of hot water to Swiss miss powder.

Changes the whole dynamic. That's what hot ice cream is. It's really just like it has powdered Swiss miss in it, and that's how it's hot. Well, and I also, I mean, you look at what the, there's a funny, first of all, hot ice cream is going to have to be an entire Patreon. I want it. I have to have hot ice cream. Well, where do we have to pilgrimage to get hot ice cream? But like, isn't it only in like foreign markets right now?

Isn't she like testing it out in like Nova Scotia? So Tyra's house, yes. Where does Tyra live right now? What a great question. She's orbiting Earth as we speak. I'm so glad that she's back, not in full force, but in love force. She really isn't back in full force. Because for years I've been like, where is Tyra?

And people are like, America's Got Talent. And then I just link and I have several ellipses and pauses and beats. And then I say, where is Tyra? Because America's Got Talent is not real. You say it in the Christian Bale Batman voice, though, which is really strange. Where's Tyra? That's true. I don't think, respect to any Garys who watch America's Got Talent, I don't think any American

watches that show if they live in a state that. Touches Water. If I watched America's Got Talent with Tyra as the judge, there is absolutely no limit to the number of times I would accidentally call out America's next top talent because just the subliminal connection would be too much to pass up at that point. You know what America's next top talent is? What? Making ice cream hot.

That's true. That's true. Nobody's doing it like Tyra. Like some type of custardy thing, right? Because like in my mind, I can imagine something that is the texture and creaminess of ice cream. See, this is how Tyra gets you. This is how Tyra gets you. She gets you to travel down that rabbit hole.

And she gets you. And at the end of you're like, so is it that? And she's like, no, it's hot ice cream. and you're like, Tyra, what are you doing? I don't understand. But that's how she gets you, because you're never going to get it right. You're never going to, you're never going to understand it unless it's like in your hot little hands and you're slurping it down. And you're like, oh, Tyra. You're like Hugh Jackman in the fountain with the tree. And what the tree is giving forth is hot ice cream. And you're like gathering it in your cupped hands. And you're like gathering it in your cupped hands. just slurping it. And then finally, you're like, your eyes go wide and you're like, I never knew it could be like this. That's what hot ice cream is. I mean, in discussing the founder and trying to draw parallels to evil corporate overlords, you know, there are many options we could draw contemporary comparisons to. Yes. But, you know, I think the most fun one is probably

Tyra, right? Oh, well, this is the question is if Tyra Banks, instead of embarking on a reality show empire, instead turned her eye towards the fast food arts, where would we be? Like, that's the butterfly effect universe that I am also interested in. Yes. Yes. If Tyra Banks had been Wendy, in other words, you know what I mean? Been the Wendy of Wendy's. truly where would we be? What kinds of Enterprising, Artistic Garys who are good with Photoshop, not AI,

send us a Wendy's logo with Tyra in it, please. Please. Please do. So, yeah, I, before we started recording, I had stated

my desire to speak at some length about McDonald's, in and of, McDonald's qua McDonald's, right? McDonald's as an end in and of itself. And I think you are probably more, you know, connected to the film, more into the corporate capitalist implications of McDonald's as a force for bad. making the founder be a lot harsher to the McDonald's brand that John Lee Hancock's the founder? Well, yes and no.

Yes and no, because I watch this movie and my dominant reaction is like, I'm a pretty sophisticated guy when it comes to watching movies. I don't need to watch movies about necessarily always characters that I like or support or admire or whatever. And yet I get to the end of this movie, and I'm just like, that was far too much time spent with such an odious person. I wanted to saw my arm off to get away from Michael Keaton's Ray Crock. And not because Michael Keaton is playing him poorly, but because he's such a fucking unpleasant and awful person to like spend your time with. Why would I want to spend one more second with this like awful, awful man?

Mm-hmm. And because I think the movie is not interested in or doesn't have, like, maybe the stones to, like, have some type of, like, corporate, you know, message, like, messaging or, like, bigger ideas about a man like this guy and the effect that it's had on our culture. You know, the corporate mindset over, you know, treating people like people. I don't know I feel like it says those things pretty flatly out Well but like in terms of having to spend All of this time with this guy And in the end you're kind of like Well what was that for

Like it's just kind of unpleasant And uninteresting for most of the movie You compare it to something like The Social Network Which is about an unpleasant Generally uninteresting person But it has it reaches for all of these, you know, bigger indicators about our culture or what this

mean, or what the effect it had on, you know, culture moving forward. And, you know, there's a lot of pleasure to that movie. There's a certain amount of, you know. Oh, yeah. Rather than watching the founder, it's like you're watching these two guys kind of get screwed by, you know. well someone who knows their way around the law in an evil way right and the social network like you're kind of rubbernecking to something um with like you know it has ideas about again the larger culture but it's also like fun to watch you know plain simply yes well in the like dialogue

in the structure of the movie etc so So the screenplay, which was written by Robert Siegel, who had written The Wrestler and was considered this sort of like hot property unproduced screenplay. And the idea with it was to have this like ambition towards doing something like the social network or like there will be blood, something where this kind of capitalist, this monster. monster of capitalism, you know, the rise of such a person. And whether through expedience or through, you know, maybe not investing as much into this, because, you know, you look at this truly no shade to this cast and, like, you know, the esteem in which to, in which I hold somebody like John Carroll Lynch. But with the exceptions of Michael Keating, you can tell where the money went when it came to this cast. They spent on Keaton, they spent on Laura Dern, and then they got a bunch

of TV actors. You know what I mean? They got Nick Offerman. They got B.J. Novak. They got, you know, Lord, no, God love Linda Cardalini, but like Linda Cardalini, you know what I mean? They spent on a lot of, like, period detail that, like, is too, um, I don't know. Like, five minutes into this movie, I'm like, oh, I'm going to, like, it's going to be unpleasant to watch this because it's so ugly and it's so, like, phony Americana. Like, not everything was that shade of teal. The reds weren't all that red, you know? Like, what am I complaining about in the palatness of this?

There's kind of, like, a nauseating quality. It's the opposite of Pleasantville, where in Pleasantville, they're like, it was. It was red, but, like, really red. And you're like, it was red, but, like, it's too red. The idea of the, like, Norman Rockwell Americana, but, like, this movie's doing it earnestly, which is also another reason that I'm like, well, John Lee Hancock is the wrong guy to make this movie. Yeah, we'll get into the John Lee Hancock of it all. But, like, yes, I think the difference between this movie and a movie, like, the social network,

or there will be blood, is those are movies who are directed by, and, like, make the jerk off motion if you want listener. visionary filmmakers. You know what I mean? Like David Fincher, Paul Thomas Anderson, these are these are filmmakers with a sort of grandness of vision. And I wonder if at some point in the pipeline, the founder was destined for that. But now it's with the Weinstein Company who are sort of going through there. Is this the Weinstein Company like Dying Days? Right. So like they're really not in a position to, you know, invest a whole lot into this thing. So they're just like, who's free? John Lee Hancock is free. You know, put him on this. Cast this thing really quickly and, you know, shove it out the door or

whatever. And you get the feeling that this is a movie that could have been something more with a director who was really willing to turn it into like this epic of, like, like awful capitalism, like this epic of, you know, American downfall, kind of, you know? Like, or at least just, you know, from the perspective that this story has ramifications and a life outside of the confines of the story we're being told, like something like there will be blood, where it's like, this is a story about a guy, but it's, of course, you know, about the nature of American greed and American, like, oil money, basically, you know? Right, right.

Well, what is, like, literally, what are McDonald's franchises, but, like, the oil of the 20th century, do you know what I mean? Like, it is the thing that was discovered that, like, literally was just, just, like oil derricks popping up all over, you know, the state of Texas or whatever, like McDonald's franchises popping up all over the country, because, like, that's where the money is now. And the legal loopholes that allow, you know, an individual to make huge profits, whereas the larger people who work in the company.

And it's the triumph of, it's like the capitalist triumph of the will, right? Where it's like not specifically, not about the Reefenstall movie, but like literally, what's the Therbill blood character? Daniel Plainview, to some degree, I guess, Mark Zuckerberg. to like the Jordan Belfort thing of just like if you are shameless enough about this, if you are willing to sort of surrender yourself to the capitalist animus of it all and to, you know, believe in the righteousness of that capitalist animus that there is really no ceiling to where you can go. And ultimately, I mean, there's so much in this movie.

And again, the movie doesn't really say it all that particularly elegantly. It just sort of kind of says it about how, you know, business is winning and, you know, America is business. America is this, you know, Ray Crock style, you know, march forward trampling your competition. And, you know, using every possible advantage. advantage to get to this. There is no, there is no mountain top to this, right? There is only this kind of ever marching forward. There is no end point. There's no point in which, like, I think that's the thing you get with like the McDonald brothers in this movie, where they, and again, they are portrayed a little sort of hoke. There's a little hokeyness to them, right?

where it's just like, they're just two good salt-of-the-earth guys who, you know, put in a hard day's work and were humble about it or whatever. Played by two actors who we always like, you know, that we don't really question. And there's a thinness to the movie that, for me, as a viewer, it made me question. I was like, surely they had to have been, like, bad guys in some way, right? Just because the movie puts them in such an archetypal place, you know? It's ultimately pretty flat, right? Their goodness is pretty flat. And it's not like I'm like, you know, nobody who makes any money can be good, you know what I mean?

But it's just like, but it is this archetype, this dichotomy between, you know, small business owner versus large corporate overlord, evil eventual billionaire. Well, what is an interesting story that does exist inside this? movie. It's just sort of, it's stated so plainly that ultimately it's not very, it's not interesting enough to turn it into a movie. Is this idea that like capitalism, American style capitalism is at odds with the, with otherwise American ideals of you, you know, of, of American entrepreneurship, right? Because there is this American ideal of, If you have a good idea and you work hard at it and you make it into something, that is success. And you can succeed that way in America because we have given you the freedom and the tools to do that.

And the McDonald brothers do that. And because they have no desire to do more than that, that they have built their successful business and they are happy with it. And now they want to enjoy that success and work at that success every day and be good with that. that that is at odds with the capitalist ideal, which is just like, that's too small. You have to keep on going and you have to keep on moving. And there's an interesting, there's a more interesting movie to be made about that fundamental disconnect in American life between, with this idea that like unfettered, unending growth is the only thing that matters in this country.

And it is absolutely built to trample everything else, everyone else. Right. And the exploitation of it is not just, I'm going to throw you under the bus, but I'm going to throw you under your bus. Right. Well, and ultimately, like, you, you know, the Ray Crocs of the world are the, like, very, very, very few who don't end up. trampled by their own bus eventually because that is the more, you know, that's the more common story is these people, these CEOs, they build up this thing, and then they are eventually pushed out because the guy behind them is more ruthless and, you know, and younger and whatever than they are. And so it's less tied to things in their lives, etc. Never ending treadmill of things because, you know, you get this thought all the time. Every time, you, you know, you get this thought all the time. Every time. you know, a company goes through layoffs. Every time, you know, somebody you know, gets fired from something or something. And you just have this thought of like, why couldn't less profits but still profits be enough? Why are people being, you know, why are lives being ruined by this?

Why is someone like David Zaslov getting a huge bonus when they've just got a bunch of layoffs? But this like capital, this capitalist, you know, requirement, this capitalist mandate for constant growth, that everything has to be upwardly scalable, that everything, that nothing that has a, that lives within itself should be allowed to exist because it's, you know, it can't grow, it can't, you know, this idea that like any company with shareholders, that there is a mandate that, that you are obligated to make business decisions that promote growth rather than stability. You know what I mean?

That everybody would probably be a lot happier if businesses were allowed to make a certain amount of money and be cool with that. You know what I mean? But like, that's not how this system works. And there's a really interesting movie to be made in that. And this movie brushes up against it. And that ultimately just sort of rests on its laurels of like, we're going to mismake this about like this one guy who and how he really seems like a piece of shit not what

his mentality or like what he did what it says about yeah well in a movie like this is done in america and a movie like there will be blood is able to do both is able to show you how he did it and also the bigger picture of it and like uh because i was going to say to pull it back to the founder like this conversation we've had so far this thought train has had more stops along the way than the founder does. Like the founder is, as you say, very, very flat. And one thing you brought up that I want to bring it back to, again, here we are. I guess we're not starting with the ending.

But like we, enough of it is it puts so much weight on basically the big final monologue that Michael Keaton has where he says, where it's like it gets closest to underlining what the theme is or what like a larger significance might be of branding. I feel like there is, the better version of this movie is even not about evil corporatization, et cetera, et cetera, but like the evilness of branding and how he talks about the strength of McDonald's is its name. It sounds American and you are selling an American product, but also. Couldn't do crocs.

Well, ironically, there is a. a brand that is Crox, and it is very successful. So how about that, Ray? But aren't they, like, I'm probably pulling this out of my ass. Crox is, like, Swedish, right? Well, it's also spelled with a C, and that's... No, they're not Swedish.

They're not Swedish. Maybe I just thought that because they're vegan. Looking it up. Wait, Crocs are vegan? Yeah. How is a shoe vegan? There's no animal product in it. Oh, I suppose. Yeah, that's true. There's no... Okay. Crox. Is an American footwear company?

based in Broomfield, Colorado. Here I am talking out of my ass as usual. When would you say Crocs were created? Oh, it's way, they're way older than you think they are. I've had the year told to me, but I forget what it is. See, I would have thought they were older than this. It's just 2002. Yeah.

I would have thought that like, because no, everything is older than you think it is. And I would have been like, oh, my God. Crocs would be, because of a. when Crofts got super popular, that it would be some, like, 20-teens. Here's a founder-esque story is the three people who created Crocs in 2002 acquired the design from a company in Quebec City. So, Crocs... Oh, that's right. They're from Quebec.

Crocs being French Canadian. Crocs being French Canadian makes a ton of sense. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Apologies to all Swedish and French Canadian Garys. But this idea that what he's really selling is a mid-century Americana, an American ideal, a homogeneity that is, you know, supposed to be some American dream, cozy idea. That is what you get when you go and get a meal at McDonald. And I think this is just one of the things that makes John Lee Hancock not good for this movie, because based off of his other movies, he believes in that ideal, not he's open to criticizing it, you know?

And if this movie's going to be better, I think it has to have a more critical mindset, right? Well, I think John Lee Hancock is ultimately a filmmaker who is interested in stories about individuals, right? That's what the blind side is. His, you know, his film about the Alamo is all about, like, these are the heroes of the Alamo. He, you know, sort of got into the business by writing the screenplay for a perfect world, which is very much about, like, you know, these individuals. The rookie, like, you know, it's saving Mr. Banks even. Like, these are just, these are stories about people. And rather than like bigger picture.

Like one of the big flaws about the blind side is that it's so much about those specific people that it does not, that it turns a, no pun intended blind eye, towards the systems that surround these people that make this particular story not so warm and fuzzy or like a or even like a little bit more complicated. I think there was a temptation with the blind side to be like, well, but the real story is sinister and bad and evil. It's like, no, the real story is just like less cut and dried than this. The real story is just like more complicated than this. And I think you see that in the founder where he's not particularly interested in the greater implications of it beyond the parts where the script just sort of like has Ray Kroc. say, you know, say. And Hancock's like, good, we got that out of the way. Now let's, you know, more about like this, how this person, you know, swindled these people

out of their, you know, billion dollar business. And yeah, it's expedient in that way. Yeah. But, I mean, I think when you have this type of character study, you want more like detail and you want more interest. like, again, like, not to bring it back to the social network and Sorkin, but like, as my, this is a movie that I, and I felt this about other movies, movies we've talked about, where it's like, yes, I understand everyone's criticisms about Sorkin, but Sorkin would definitely make a more entertaining movie about this subject. Yeah. Sorken hold our interest better. Yeah. And Sorkin is a person who by and large is interested in individuals, right? But he at least, like, is able to place them more within,

context, right? And and sometimes that context is this kind of Capra-esque ideal, you know, but it's a context, you know what I mean? And ultimately the founder feels unmoored in that way. Like there's just like

it's, okay, so you're telling me this isolated story. And it's not an isolated story, but like the way that it's depicted in this movie is. And so, So, ultimately, then it becomes very reliant on wanting to spend time with this character and watching his assent. And, like, nobody who's making the founder, not Hancock, not Siegel, not Michael Keaton, is under any illusions about Ray Kroc. Like, everybody's on the same page that this is the bastard.

But, like, there is, there's, you know, there's nothing deeper to it. there's nothing more sort of foundationally sinister. And in that way, it's just like, well, you're just then spending two hours with a son of a bitch. And it's just like... And not an interesting son of a bitch at that. A son of a bitch who could be made interesting. Yeah. I don't want to get too far into talking about Keaton until we get on the plot description.

Right. Joe, so would you like to sell our small little company to our shareholders, that is the Gary's, and talk about our Patreon? Speaking of a mid-level business that is fine with being mid-level, we have a Patreon, and we have had it for several years. It's called This Hadd Oscar Groups. Turbulent brilliance, for the cost of $5 a month, what can you get at McDonald's now for $5? maybe not much. Like, prices have been going up. You can probably get a small order of French fries. You can get a small soda during the happy hour of 2 to 4 p.m. The thing about the, that you can track the economy via the McDonald's value menu is unfortunately quite true. Like, the McDonald's value menu used to be called the McDonald's dollar menu,

And it is no longer the dollar menu because nothing on that thing costs even close to a dollar now. It's like how at Taco Bell 20 years ago, you could feed 20 people for $10. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now what do you get? That Baja Blast is not... Did I send you that thing where somebody made a Baja Blast key lime pie dessert? Oh, yeah.

I've talked to friends who've had it. They say that it's weird and... That color does not exist in nature. But not good. That color does not exist in nature, that shade of. Miranda Priestley would give a horrifying story about the history of that shade of blue, that particular shade of blue that that pie is. Anyway, the Patreon.

Any way the Patreon. $5 a month, turbulent brilliance. You get two full bonus episodes every month. The first Friday of the month, you will get an episode, which is what we call an exception, which is a in the style of a of a regular flagship this had Oscar buzz episode

where we talk about a movie but it's a movie that we couldn't talk about on flagship this had Oscar buzz because despite having great Oscar expectations and disappointing results it still managed to eke out

a nomination or two so recently we have done episodes on movies like Contact, Tim Burton's Big Fish Interview with the Vampire Mary Queen of Scots Mulholland Drive

Earlier this month, we invited our good friend Katie Rich to get into the James Cameron of it all with another avatar movie knocking on our door. Who knows what kind of... Hey, what calls to you sign up for the Patreon. Who knows what interesting new species of creature all the Cameron heads will be talking about this December when fire and ass hits.

But we're not talking about an avatar movie. we're talking about true lies, James Cameron's true lies. And you can go, if you sign up for the Patreon right now, it's there for you. It is waiting for you. Welcome to True Lies. We have been waiting for you with Katie Rich. So the third Friday of every month, we are giving you an episode that we call an excursion, which is not about a movie specifically, but about a piece of Oscar slash awards slash movie ephemera that really appeals to us.

What are we talking about? We're talking about us watching old award shows and gabbing about that. We've talked about, you know, the 2005 Independent Spirit Awards, the 2003 Golden Globes, the 1988 Academy Awards in all its gaudy, snow-white glory. We'll talk about old entertainment weekly fall movie preview issues. We will talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables. Coming up in the new year, we will be doing our third. annual. This head Oscar buzz superlatives, that is our year-end awards, cobbled together from the

weirdo categories of various movie award shows. Yes, the National Border Review, special recognition for excellence will be probably involved, as will be Best Kiss. And our new category, Chris, Queen of the Night. Queen of the Night. Who will be crowned Queen of the Night? You will find out if you sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent Brilliance, like we said, $5 a month. It's the best value in town. To sign up, you can go to our Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Fabulous. The founder.

Directed by John Lee Hancock, written by Robert Siegel, starring. One Michael Keaton will get into it. Laura Dern, Nick Offerman, John Carroll Lynch, Linda Cardalini, Patrick Wilson, and B.J. Novak. Patrick Wilson, what are you doing? What are you doing there? teeny tiny little Patrick Wilson

performance. You're too famous for a role that is neither significant nor like a fun cameo. Like, it's such a weird middle ground. What's going on? Yeah, it is just kind of like,

and Patrick Wilson has this one scene for some reason. Yeah, for some reason. The movie had a qualifying release first weekend of December 2016 before opening wide. on January 20th, 2017, that weekend was led by Split.

Split, open to $40 million. You know what split should have done is created a viral dance craze where people split a thing and do a dance. I'm doing the Charlie X, X, X, X, X, Apple thing. Oh. Our listeners can't see it, but I'm doing the, I'm going to split, split. Well, the listeners can't see it, but, like, you never stop doing that dance. You're doing it through the whole episode. You split his psyche down right to the core in split is what you do.

And then Katie Rich is coming in and shoving you out of the way to be doing that dance. Is it intentional that the Apple, the Charlie XX Apple dance looks like you're putting on a seatbelt? Is that, like, part of it? You know what part I'm talking about, right? I will say I've only seen the Charlie XXX Apple dance. from that video of kombucha girl getting shoved out of the way by that awful gay guy. The awful gay guy. That's the only time I ever saw it.

Sorry, Katie, for comparing you to awful gay guys. Sorry for comparing you to kombucha girl. Did you just swipe past it quickly every time the billion times it showed up on your various social feeds? Never showed up on my socials. Come on. Sometimes I think you're lying when you talk about never seeing things on your socials. I don't see, I don't see the, I don't have TikTok. Nor do I, but it filters down eventually to me.

I don't see it on Instagram. Instagram, it's all cats and dudes. I am that kind of gay guy. That's what it feeds me all the time. It's cats, dudes, and movie stuff. All right, man, you're, you've curated your shit better than me. I'll say that. Anyway, back to the filter.

Also opening this weekend, Triple X, the Return of Cage. Legacy sequel for Triple X. Who's in this Triple X? I believe the... I imagine the return of Cage means that Vin Diesel came back to the franchise. Interesting. Because Triple X, because Ice Cube's in the second one, right?

Because there was the falling out or whatever. Or the third one. Who knows? But yes, I imagine the return of Cage means Vin Diesel back. Hidden Figures was in third place. Hidden Figures very much your business. So much money. Hidden figures.

is very tailored to your business, I feel. Yes, yes, an Oscar movie, actresses. Here, here, actresses, here, enjoy them. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we can't kind of imagine a movie like Hidden Figures making Hidden Figures money today, because it's like, oh, movie for adults, maybe older skewing adults mostly as its prime demo.

Oh, that movie made $100 million, right? I'm pretty sure. Now, if Octavia Spencer had a sex cardigan in that movie, then we're talking. Then we're talking profitability, so. Very true. Sing was in fourth place, none of my business. Boy, the Sing movies could not exist farther away from. Now, that's an area where I imagine there's somebody whose social feed has clips of various voiceover celebrities singing things and sing.

but, like, can't be me. I need to study the Singh movie casts, so I can find them in Cinematrix. I know what's his face, cutie twink from the Kingsman movies, is like the main guy, the Elton John movie guy, Taryn Edgerton. Oh, interesting. Is the main guy, I'm pretty sure. But then, like, other than that, yes. He would be, like, those movies would be probably very good for Cinematrix.

one word title um yeah the founder opened in 11th place 11th place but with 3.4 million dollars yeah you're not getting that at the box office this 11th place you're getting not making 3.4 million dollars period 11th place in like early in like October 2025 box office is probably like $150,000 like it's the drop off is is significant I've mentioned this in the group chat, but Nuremberg is now Sony Classics. I'm not trying to drag the good people of Sony Classics, but it is Sony Classics highest grossing movies since Call Me By Your Name, a movie we all got loud and annoying about how little money it made because it never expanded.

Yeah, yeah. And I kind of defy you to talk to someone who's not us or not like, you know, our our listeners, uh, who have seen a movie like Nuremberg. You know who likes Nuremberg, the voting members of the AARP movies for Grotups Awards, who gave it the second most nominations after one battle after another. They also gave three nominations to the founder. We'll get into it. We've got to keep moving. Uh, Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description of the founder? Will you be mad at me if I really like gloss over some shit?

I mean, no. The middle of this movie, I did doze off a little bit. I do admit that. I wonder why. All right. Fine. Then your 60-second plot description for the founder starts now. Ray Crock, Michael Keaton plays Ray Crock, who is a milkshake machine salesman who ends up getting an order for eight milkshake machines from these two brothers in San Bernardino, California, who are running a restaurant called McDonald's that is offering fast food in this economy.

Ray Kroc gets incredibly intrigued by this idea and sees dollar science, and so convinces them to let him in on the business and to run a franchise and gets very, very into the idea of franchising out this business and gets very frustrated at the brothers for not wanting to expand, expand, expand, and to do these cost-cutting maneuvers. And so eventually partners up with less and less scrupulous business partners, one of whom is B.J. Novak, who is like, just buy the land out from under all of these franchises. And then you can do whatever you want. And essentially just defy these guys, get rich enough to defy these guys. And so they can't sue you. And eventually he does. And he puts John Carroll Lynch into like half into a diabetic coma. And eventually they come to a, he also divorces his poor wife, Laura Dern, who just wanted to. like go on fucking vacation with him to Spain. And then gets with Linda Cardalini who is playing just like feminine wiles personified. And then there is a

court mandated arbitration where the brothers are granted a payoff and then a quote unquote handshake deal for royalties. No surprise that the handshake deal is not honored. And eventually Ray Kroc gets old and rich and McDonald's becomes

the greatest thing. ever, and these two brothers get chased out of business for their little, one little San Bernardino restaurant that can no longer even use the name McDonald's, even though it is theirs, the end. 50 seconds over, 57 seconds over. You know what? Least relatable thing about this man, he doesn't want to go on vacation with Laura Dern. Laura Dern, who just, like, wants to stay married to him for whatever reason, and, you know, ultimately,

his desire to divorce her is just sort of treated as like one more symptom of his his you know losing his soul to to corporatism I don't know capitalism I'm just going to keep saying capitalism in this episode I'm so sorry everybody I'm going to sound like a real I'm going to sound like a real asshole but I mean like we we've kind of talked about the themes of the movie it's fine okay another like thing that I think is going to become a swear jar topic of conversation after we can never figure

out who credit who came up with this but the deliver me from nowhere bit about the Gummer being wife on phone but in person Laura Dern is wife on phone but in person in this movie sometimes she is wife on phone though she's yes she's sometimes in person but sometimes she is wife on phone

Linda Cardellini is also seductress on phone sometimes, and sometimes in person. But sometimes in person. During's first, like, significant scene, I was like, wow, this is, like, real bad. It's, like, screenplay 101 studio notes the character. Yeah. of just being like totally saying the thing

that is wrong with the character to them as like character development. Yeah, when does it kind of be enough for you, Ray? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Poor Laura. Laura, who was like this same year, was like doing such good work in certain women

that like nobody, you know, which was, you know, to the degree to which certain women was getting any, attention at all. It was getting very much deserved attention for Lily Gladstone. But Laura's so good in that movie, as we talked about when we did our episode on certain women.

But yeah, why? Whole cast is so good in that movie. Right down to Marceline Hugo. Dern, of course, had worked with John Lee Hancock. Well, the both of them were on a perfect world. She's in a perfect world. He wrote it. I don't know how much they worked together

on that. But maybe she's had a you know, a tie to this filmmaker all this time, and maybe that's why she's in this movie. But, like, otherwise, I don't know why she's wasting her time with something like this. I mean, not doing right by Laura Dern, I think, is a smaller problem for this movie than it not doing right by Michael Keaton, who's like, I felt that for Michael Keaton in this, that I'm like, okay. So he's been on the comeback trajectory for a few years at this point. Right. Birdman Spotlight, yep. And then this, and this is supposed to be, like, his vehicle to, like, potentially get him finally his Oscar.

And I'm like, this just, it just is not it. It doesn't give him really much to play. In a way, this is his broken flowers, right? Where, remember how, like, Murray is in Lost in Translation and he doesn't win, and then he's in, Well, like the life aquatic, but doesn't get nominated. But I remember sight unseen, people were like, broken flowers. That's what's going to get Bill Murray's Oscar. And people were sort of like that with the founder with like, well, you know, he doesn't win for Birdman. He doesn't get nominated for Spotlight.

But like the founder, he's playing the guy who founded McDonald's. You know, it's going to be a real sort of like, and I think people envisioned probably partly what this movie was about, that he's playing this sort of like, you know, capitalist monster or whatever. and people were like, man, what a spotlight kind of, no pun intended, you know, kind of a role for him. And then, and beyond the fact that this movie doesn't sort of, you know, stand up to that kind of scrutiny, it also just like never really opened. This was a movie that sort of like was hanging out at the end of the year as a possibility, but what about the founder? What about Michael Keaton and the founder? And then the year kept going and going and going.

And then it's like, well, I guess like the founders just getting this like, you know, barely qualifying release. And ultimately it just like is a very much a non-entity in this race. And why would you do a qualifying release for a movie like this? Qualifying releases don't have, I mean, there is recent success to the, like qualifying release have gone a way for a long time and now they're kind of back this year and previous years but you know you do it in a really like focused way or it's like you have not a lot of time like still alice which was a recent success to uh the founder in this way that like that was bought out of that tiff they had to figure out what their strategy would be in order to qualify they did a qualifying release

and then that movie but they at least did tiff like the founder didn't do any of the fall festival. It was just like, they held it back and held it back and held it back. And finally, it was just like, oh, well, I guess we have all the movies we need to pay attention to this year. And the founder hadn't come out. Yeah. This type of movie. At some point in, at some point these days, people want to know what are the movies I need to care about this year. And the deadline for that for people, for those people's attention boxes, people have this sort of like finite box of attention. And I think people who are, especially like voters in these movie awards, are like,

I need to know what's in this box. And eventually I'm going to close the lid on this box. And people start closing the lid on that box like around like November. You know what I mean? And so if you're not in the box by then in some way, if you haven't been, you know, in the conversation in some way by then, you kind of are out of luck. Plus, you're, like, really, you know, forceful to, like, force yourself back in that box in December or something like that. But something like the founder just sort of got left out of the box.

And it also kind of has to be better. Like, even if it's, like, divisive but better. It wasn't good enough to force itself into the box. Yeah. Yeah. It's a question of, like, shouldn't you just, like, give up the ghost then? And maybe there's certain contractual obligations that, like, you, like, you'd. do have to release it in this award season but like you could imagine this movie as a march

release could have gotten in more theaters made more money and didn't have to be in the Oscar conversation at all but I do feel bad for Keaton watching this movie because it's just like it doesn't start why would you even cast Michael Keaton in this role like he's an actor known for more idiosyncrasy you know humor and like he doesn't even get to be like schmuck funny in this movie? Right. He's like just an asshole. Who do you think would have worked better in this?

I was trying to think of that. Like, who would I have cast in this kind of role? And I wonder if, like, we've never really seen Clooney do the bad guy thing, right? Mm-hmm. Would it be interesting to watch somebody like George Clooney really, like, go dark for something like this? I mean, it's not dark, but I don't think. Jay Kelly thinks that that character is a good guy, and I don't think it lets him off the hook. But it's a different thing. And also, there's a lot of, like, diffusing comedy

in that, all the stuff with the Italian tourists and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's adjacent to farcical. Right. I mean, there's darkness in some stuff like Siriana, but has he ever played? But I think this kind of a role would have been a real departure. for him in a way that for me would have been kind of exciting in a better in a overall sort of like better directorial vision of course um can we go into the keaton run a little bit more yeah let's let's kind of talk about why it's so disappointing in a way yes i didn't know going back to beetlejuice that he won national society nor had i actually heard that movie which is cool that's a that's a fact you'd think i would know but i did i do not know that

Yeah, that's super cool. If I knew that previously, I will never forget it moving forward. Every once in a while, national society will sort of like spring that on. Have a weirdo-freco choice like that. Keaton's early sort of origin story, he had been sort of a bounce-around guy on TV for a while. He was sort of famously worked on the Mr. Rogers' neighborhood locally, like in Pittsburgh or whatever. He's in the Mr. Rogers documentary. And then was in a bunch of, you know, TV, you know, guest appearances or whatever until, what, the early 80s.

Mr. Mom is 83. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His 80s run is kind of interesting. I remember Johnny Dangerously was on Comedy Central a lot when I was growing up. My dad really liked that movie Gung Ho he did, where he did. He played a car factory movie, right? Yeah, he's an American sort of auto plant worker who gets sent to Japan to teach, you know, to their, you know, they're opening a plant in Japan and he goes there to train their workers there. A thing, I imagine my dad liked it because that was a thing that his company, my dad early in his career, worked for.

a windshield wiper manufacturer here in Buffalo. And they eventually moved a lot of that business to Mexico. And that involved, for a while there, my dad would go down to Mexico to train the people in the plant down there and ultimately had to turn down the offer to move to Mexico, move us all to Mexico to, you know, work in that plant there. So, which was never going, it was never a serious option for my dad. I don't think he ever really seriously considered doing that, although it meant him getting laid off, ultimately. But it is interesting that, like, there is a version of me that, like, would have, like,

grown up on the, like, American, in this American sort of, like, business enclave in northern Mexico. I can't get us too off track, but when we're offline, I'll tell you the story about the divergent version of my life where I grew up in Vegas. Whoa, okay. But, like, I would have grown up, like, not far away from, like, Ciudad Juarez. Like, it would have been, like, a real interesting version of yourself. Yeah.

But Keaton, and then, of course, it's Beetlejuice, and then it's Batman. And there's a string of 90s comedy, including, like, multiplicity. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Keaton goes away for a while. Yes. Like, kind of intentionally? Does he do any TV during?

I guess not really, right? No, because the TVs recently with like dopesick. Right. He did that HBO movie live from Baghdad in 2002 with him and Helen Abonam Carter. And yeah, that's kind of it. It is sort of a, you know, Birdman is definitely a comeback. I even remember when he was like, voice of Ken of Ken and Barbie in Toy Story 3 that I remember being like, oh, yeah, Michael Keaton.

Doesn't he play the president in one of those my dad is the president movies? I think it's the Katie Holmes one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know that I like Birdman most, more than most people. Right. But it is, to me, it's a great performance.

He did not win for that movie. I certainly was rooting for him to win. Especially how well it did top of the line, you know, that movie. I would have absolutely traded Keaton winning. If Keaton wins best actor and something else wins best picture, I'm a much happier person that year. Like, a much, much happier person. So, yeah. He did better that season than I remembered him doing.

Yeah. Because I thought that he won basically nothing significant. He wins Indy Spirit. He wins the gothic. which I know that a Gotham win doesn't necessarily equate to much in terms of the race. He also wins National Border View and the Globe. Yeah. Yeah.

He won a lot. Like, there was a while there where it really seemed like that was his award to lose. And I think that's, I don't think it's analogous to, like, Stallone and Eddie Murphy losing, where it's, you find out later that it's just like, oh, like, nobody likes those guys because they're incredibly unpleasant people. And I don't think we found that out about Keaton, but, like, he does sort of fall into that box of veteran actor, Bert Reynolds, is another one, where, you know, it's just like veteran actor who we all assumed was going to win the Oscar because, you know, the strength, on the strength of their career or whatever. And I wonder if Pacino winning for scent of a woman has skewed our perspective. of how often that, like, career Oscar thing happens for actors who haven't been nominated for Oscars before, which is like... Well, I mean, look at Brendan Fraser, though.

That was definitely comeback coded. That is absolutely true. And I think it... Yes, there are exceptions to the rules, certainly. But I'm trying to think of, like, who else recently? I mean, to me, more sort of recently, you know, also, where... Comeback narratives, I think, currently are much friendlier to supporting races and specifically supporting male races, probably.

Who are we thinking of specifically? Maybe am I spiritually, I'm thinking that's a spiritual truth, but not an actual truth. Listen, spiritual truth matters when we talk about the Academy Awards, so say it. But it's also that he was up against Eddie Redmayne, who you talk to any person, who, like, goes to these events and covers awards. Eddie Redmayne went to literally every invite and shook every hand and kissed every baby. Yes, yes. And that he really worked that campaign.

Well, and he had already had, like, Tony Award campaigns and, like, he had, he was more of a veteran of that process than you think. I imagine your supporting actor thing, by the way, is informed by folks like Kiwi Kuan and Robert Doni Jr. winning recently. Yeah. Brad Pitt's thing. Yeah. Yeah.

It's also when you look at the type of character, the type of performance that Keaton is doing in Birdman versus what Eddie Redmayne was doing in theory of everything, and that's the more type of thing

that gets, you know, given credence with the Oscar. You know, he's doing a real person. He's doing a physical. physical transformation, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, it's not like Ray Kroc has a ton of visual iconography to him. Or the, what's his character name in Birdman, since that's the one he lost for?

Well, Birdman, of course, but no, he's, um, Christ, I don't know. Wait, it'll say it here. Riggin, Riggin Thompson. Great. Great. Is there a certain element, too, that the comeback narrative gets kind of eclipsed by, you know, Inuritu as a filmmaker. You know, so much when we talk about Birdman, we talk about Inuritu. We don't talk as much about Keaton, though I think Keaton's incredible in that movie.

Isn't that kind of a thing? Because, like, can we think of a comeback narrative where it's also a narrative of a virtuoso filmmaker? that's interesting i mean i mean maybe like mickey rourke in the wrestler but mickey rourke didn't win i mean you talk about the bert reynolds nomination for boogie nights and like that does come tied to this sort of wonderkind um narrative for paul thomas anderson so um that does well right yeah yeah um you know so you know good point i guess a little bit with you know the everything everywhere all at once thing, but, like, that narrative had so much else going on. Yeah, yeah. And that was just a movie that everybody really responded to and loved. So, like,

you know, I think that was just a movie that did well generally. So it brought up a lot of. What I think is interesting is the sort of post-Birdman Michael Keaton Renaissance, right? Which, I mean, the founder is part of, but, like, I think he's really fantastic in Spotlight. Like, we've talked before about how frustrated I was at that decision to run everybody in supporting that year when, like, best actor was so thin that I really feel like Keaton could have gotten into that field with a lead actor push for spotlight. And if there is a first among equals in that cast in terms of prominence of role, like he's it. Keaton won New York film critics for that movie for lead actor. And I totally forgot that. I had forgotten that, too, actually. He gets cast in Spider-Man Homecoming. as the villain in that. He gets cast in the Tim Burton

live-action Dumbo movie. But I think he's quite good in Trial of the Chicago 7. I think he's really good in that movie Worth. Memory Hold, COVID-era Netflix movie. Yep, Stanley Tucci's so good in that movie.

Well, it wasn't Netflix. That was the thing. It premiered without distribution at Sundance, and eventually Netflix picked it up. But, like, that movie kicked around for a while, I think. Interesting. He gets sort of

possibly against his will dragooned into The Flash where all of those, like, where Nicholas Cage is like, what the hell am I doing in The Flash? Like, that kind of a thing. And then last year, of course...

Yeah, propaganda, The Flash. Yeah. He directs, two years ago, he directs his first movie, Knox Goes Away, I haven't seen. Did you ever see Knox goes away? I did not see Knox goes away. That was sort of that like that, that, that, that Tiff that was all the actor-director movies because the strike was happening.

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice last year, which I... Hope he got paid well. Hated that movie. Yes. Did not care for that movie. He's not the reason why I did not care for that movie, but I did not care for that movie. And then he's in the Halley-Meyer-Shire movie, Goodrich, which I did not see. But I remember they talked about it on Blank Check, and I'm like, maybe I want to see Goodrich. And then that's his last movie so far. He's in an movie upcoming crime thriller with De Niro and Adam Scott and Michelle Monaghan.

And John Carroll Lynch. Respect about all people that I like, but that sounds like that's... Oh, and it's a Joe and Anthony Russo production. And it's a Netflix movie. Oh, I was going to say, this sounds very... Apple original. It's a Netflix original, so there. But meantime, he did win an Emmy for Dope Sick.

One Emmy, right? Not just a Golden Globe. I think he won an Emmy for that. Maybe. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Prime Time.

Emmy already did win. Yes. For Hulu's dopesick. So this has been a very, a period in Michael Keaton's career where people are are, you know, finding time to award him for stuff, which is good and cool, because for so long he had been so good in these movies that were very, you know, it was hard to get people to hand awards to things like Beetlejuice and Batman. And, you know. I mean, I think it's a real shame that he didn't get more recognition for Spotlight. Again, it's an embarrassment of riches. in that movie. But I would call him Best in Show, which is a real feat in that ensemble where pretty much top to bottom everybody is excellent. In Spotlight. Yeah. I'm not a fan of Ruffalo

in that movie, but beyond that, like, Rich McAdams is amazing. McAdams is great. I love Tucci in that movie. I love Crude Up in that movie. I think, I think you're right in that like that. B. Dars is amazing. For as much as people sort of like get on Ruffalo's case for overdoing it, I love that scene. I know people make fun of it. It was just like, they knew the whole time, like that scene.

But like, I think there is, there is a place in a, in a movie for that kind of heightened, you know, emotion. And I think Spotlight needed that kind of release valve moment. But I think there's also,

like, real impact in, in the specific way that Michael Keaton underplays some things. I think especially the scene towards the end where he underplays his own part in letting this story go underreported, I think is really powerful.

Spotlight, a good companion movie for The Post, actually. I'm not kidding. I don't know why you're laughing. I'm not kidding. Well, because there's a scene where Michael Keaton says, let's, let's go. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's publish.

Yes. No, Keaton's great. I think, you know, in a movie, again, with a little bit more vision, I think he maybe can do more with the founder. But again, I would have liked to have seen maybe a different. Or just a snappier script, something. Like, let Keaton go off the plot a little bit, you know? Yeah. Let him cook.

I do feel like John Carroll Lynch is really quite good in this movie for as much. is I don't love them. When is the man ever bad? I mean, he's not ever bad. And we've already, you know, we've had him in so many movies. We've done a full-on six-timers for John Carroll Lynch. We definitely hit six-timers for John Carroll Lynch before we did for Laura Dern. I know that. That's so funny. Of the two of them with him and Offerman, I think Offerman is obviously, I think he's used for a little bit of comic relief in this movie, which is good. That's why you get an actor like Nick Offerman. I think John Carroll Lynch sells the betrayal of all of this really well, you know what I mean? Where he's so, I mean, I guess he's portrayed as, you know, an innocent and all this.

Just, you know, couldn't ever imagine. Sweet baby boy, John Carroll Lynch. Sweet Summer Child. Is he Dick or Mack McDonald? He is Mac. Mac. He is Mac. Nick is Dick. I guess that's easy to remember Nick is dick. Yeah, I don't know. I really, I think he's really good. Everybody else feels like they are playing a character fresh out of a box. You know what I mean? B.J. Novak is playing a real B.J. Novak type in this movie. I feel bad for Cardalini. I think she's playing a real stock character the sort of like the woman

who the wandering eye sort of turns towards in this movie She proposes powdered milkshakes Yep, yep, yep That's her villainous She is the Delilah of the milkshake machine Joan Joan, woman on a mission

Ambition Can't believe they made me audition Let's go Joan Am I wrong Where am I wrong? No, no. So much of the McDonald's origin story in this ends up being about the milkshakes. He sells the milkshake machine.

The big rift comes from changing the formula for milkshakes, which is why it ought to be all the more galling that whenever you go to a fucking McDonald's in New York City, the milkshake machine isn't working. You wanted to talk about our favorite McDonald's menu items. I was like, it's all the same stuff. But for me, I mean, and this is one of the things that made me start with the milkshake this episode is like, it's a McDonald's shake. Like, I'll suck it down like it's, I don't know. Top five McDonald's items in order. I have them. Do you have them?

No, because it's all those, it's just, like, I don't, it's all the same. It's a menu of all the same things, which like, I'll eat junk food happily, but like I couldn't probably. tell you my favorite things. All right. Number one is the shamrock shake, obviously. The McDonald's milkshake is a quality item. The shamrock shake is special. It makes it better. It's green. Sometimes nothing.

If you want a shamrock shake, there really is nothing else you can do to sate that craving. Like, it really just is. Like, it's a shamrock shake or nothing. Number two, the double cheeseburger. The one perfect next. between it's still it's

it should it used to be on the dollar menu it is no longer a dollar but a

McDonald's double cheeseburger is the one item that has a advantageous

ratio of burger to like bun and you're not feeling like you're

being ripped off the problem with something like a Big Mac is I'm just

getting a lot of bread a lot of fucking bread who just order hamburgers. Well, that's the thing. That's why I wanted to do this, though,

because the double cheeseburger is my only burger on this entire top five. Okay, keep going. Number three, the bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit sandwich for breakfast. I don't like the biscuit, because it falls apart. Oh, but it's so tasty. It's so buttery.

It's very, very, very buttery in a way that I really like. Plus, their bacon, kind of unique to most, like, fast food. Their bacon is, like, shatteringly crispy. Like, it's really, really crispy in a way that I really appreciate. Number four is the McFlurry. I prefer an M&M McFurray. I will accept an Oreo McFurray, even though the Oreo McFurray sometimes tastes medicinal in a way that I don't like.

In general, I don't really go for the more sort of complicated McFurries. But, like, an M&M McFurray really hits. And then five, I mean, I could say, like, on the right day, the crispy chicken club sandwich used to be, like, fantastic, and, like, quality control has gone down so far with that, that I, like, rarely get a really satisfying crispy chicken club sandwich anymore. So number five has got to be the fries, right? Like, they're iconic. I normally eschew fries because I feel like it's just, like, calories I don't really need. But when you're really, again, when you're really in the mood for, like, crisp.

shoe string McDonald's fries, you really can't get that anywhere else. They have that weird, like, chemical, you know, thing that they put in it that, like... It's the salt. It's the salt. You know what? No, I'm saying the salt is what's tasty about the fries. I am canonically anti-shoestring fry, period. What is your preference for fry? What is your ideal fry?

Like a seasoned fry. But not like a steak fry. Cakey, but crispy, not a steak fry. I hate steak fries. Yeah, no, McDonald's is the only shoestring fry I will allow. It has to be hot because otherwise it is terrible. Oh, yeah. No, that is definitely a thing.

As soon as it approaches room temperature, it, like, gets bad fast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just generally anti-shoestring fry. Okay, here's the other thing that I'm like, because he orders a hamburger when he shows up to McDonald's for the first time. And that just got me on the whole tirade of, like, ordering just a hamburger, no cheese, I understand that some people don't eat cheese. That's how you know he's a villain. So you just ordered a bun.

Like, that's like eating just the bun. Well, Wegman's hamburger patties, especially like in the regular hamburger cheeseburger realm, are famously quite thin. You really have to like order. The fact that a quarter pounder with cheese exists as a discrete menu item, tells you a lot, because it tells you that a quarter pound hamburger is not their standard, that you really have to, like, request a special menu item to make your burger a quarter pound. And, like, newsflash, everybody, like, your burger should be a quarter pounder. Like, every burger should be a quarter pounder.

Because that's a burger, yes. I also, like, I get the people that are like, well, I don't eat cheese. Well, congratulations, McDonald's cheese is not cheese. Say, do I have some good news for you? It is an electron away from plastic, and that's why it tastes so good. Yes, exactly. It's not cheese. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess if I was going to say favorite menu items, McDonald's cheese would be on it, which, like, just the cheese, just the cheese. Just like also Taco Bell, I'm like, the little clamshell case, but it's just cheese. It's delicious to me. I should have had more, if we'd had more time to prepare, I would have pulled top five celebrity sightings at McDonald's. Oh, that you have seen specifically at a

McDonald's? No, just when there's like memes of people who are too famous to go inside of a McDonald's and yet they do. Like there's many Lady Gaga goes to random McDonald's things out there. My favorite is Sersha at McDonald's. You've seen the Sersha at McDonald's. No, but I love the idea of it. Hold on. Hold on. I'll send it to you. I love the idea. of it, Sertia at McDonald's. What's her, what's the funniest thing for Sersia and her accent to order? It's also that the photo itself is so funny. What's the, what's the McGruber of McDonald's for her? Is it, um, McFlurry? McFlurry. Yes, I want to hear Sersh order a McFlurry. I hope that link works that I sent

you. Oh, wow, the gown of it all. What are, what is she coming from? I forget what she's coming from. I think it was a globe. What was she promoting in 2015? I don't know. But she's at the... Is there a freestanding McFlurry machine? No, I think that's a Coke freestyle. Oh, it's a Coke freestyle.

That's an odd-shaped cup for a Coke Reestyle. First of all, I do want to chastise the photographer of this, because don't do that. Leave Sershah alone. Leave Sersh alone. At least stand 10 feet away from her if you're going to try to take a candid of Sersha Rohnen at McDonald's. Leave her alone. Or take a Popper Candid. Clearly, they, like, said, hey,

Sersha and waited for her to turn and then snapped a photo. And that's what makes it so funny. The casualness of this is what makes it funny. I will still, however, chastise the photographer. She does, she does have a bit of that, like, caught in the act look of, like, what? Like, wasn't me. Like, you're Sarsha Ronan. What, um, what's specialty beverage are you getting at the Coke freestyle?

Mr. Pibb. No, that's not. My thing about a Coke freestyle machine, and I know we've, had this conversation before, is if you're going to do it right, you have to order something from the Coke freestyle machine that you can't get in a can or a bottle somewhere. I'm saying Sears is getting the Mr. Pib. I'm not saying I would get a Mr. Pib. I think Searsh is getting a Mr. Pipp. You need the mellow, yellow, zero citrus twist. Like, that's what you are ordering, because that is not something that is sold in a store.

I do love a, like, a raspberry Coke. Exactly. Like, cherry Coke is my ideal. Diet cherry. And it's, it's a diet or a zero. I have evolved past being able to have regular Coca-Cola and not feel like I am, like, eating solid food. Like, it really, it feels so thick and substantial, and I'm just like, I need the chemical thinness.

of a Diet Coke. If this divergence into discussing McDonald's sounds weird, you probably haven't seen the motion picture, the founder. Because really the star of this movie is McDonald's. And I don't think the movie really has any qualms about it. And that's one of the things that I think it's like, well, yes, it kind of should be. And in the way that Facebook is not the star of social network, even though they say Facebook every two words in that movie. But McDonald's is kind of the star. of this movie. And like, yes, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth when I'm like, yes,

corporate McDonald's is evil. And then on the other side, I'm like, but I love their plastic cheese when I... Listen, nobody who has evangelized the Baja Blast as many times as you have on this podcast can make a credible claim towards fast food snobbery. Can I tell you my favorite scene in this movie that, like, if there were more scenes like that, that it would have been a better movie. The tennis court simulation of the assembly line where they took the tennis court and I imagine this is based in real life or else why would you put it in this movie. Took the tennis court, chalked it up so that every station is represented and then put their employees through the paces of pantomiming the assembly line of

McDonald's in their patented, oh, what was it, speedy system? What did they call it? Really, really fun to watch and like really, it's, you know, it pops, you know? It's the rare scene in this movie that really pops, and I really, really loved that. I also laughed a lot at early in the movie when you see, because Ray's, you know, he's selling milkshake machines and, you know, he's going to these various restaurants, and he, we see him at the drive-up, what do you call those, the restaurants with the, I guess they're just like drive-in restaurants, right, where you drive up, and the, you know, the car hop comes out and takes your order and whatnot, and he's waiting forever, and I just love the obviousness of it.

We're just like, I wish this food were fast. What I, you know, somebody should invent a fast food. And they shouldn't get it wrong. It felt very like TV infomercial thing, just like, you know, people like failing to put, you know, to put a salad together and they're just like, it gets everywhere. You know, somebody should invent something that spins your salad for you. And then it's like, ah, a salad spinner. But yeah, it was very much just like, I can't believe that this food isn't faster. And someone did invent it.

To talk about John Lee Hancock a bit, I do think that the better movie that pulls off being like, we want to criticize this thing, but never more than 15% because the other 85% we want to love this thing. While not being a perfect movie, but the better movie that is saving Mr. Banks. I know what you're going to say. because like that has a reverence for Disney and not a reverence but it it it knows why Disney has its place in the American psyche has the place in the American heart and it does not want to tear it down criticize Disney yes it's not a take down job but it is also a thing that like reveals it is it is the movie that like delves most into the systems of it all right

Like, P.L. Travers was ultimately kind of churned up by the Disney machine in that. Yes. We'll do an exception on Saving Mr. Banks eventually. Who wrote that movie, Saving Mr. Banks? Kelly Marcell and Sue Smith, who also did the adaptation of 50 Shades of Grey. So, there we go. All right, Chris. What else can we say?

We previously mentioned that the founder nominated for three. three M for G's. The Movies for Grownups Awards. I like the categories that this was nominated in beyond just Best Actor, which makes a lot of sense. The company that Keaton's in here is very, it's M4G's coded in a lot of different ways, right? Denzel wins for fences. It's so deranged, though. It is deranged, of course.

Tom Hanks for Sully is like That is a role And a performance and an actor That are just like down the middle Pinch to the M4Gs Checked all three boxes for M4Gs What if a man of retirement age Was excellent at his job

And they're like Click Nominate Played by Tom Hanks Directed by Clint Eastwood Yep Almost shocking he didn't win though I'm glad Denzel won

Because Denzel should have Had an Oscar for that His best performance Warren Beatty, nominated for Rules Don't Apply. One of these days, Chris, I want to do a wannabea-vis-V-J-style competition for who can guest on our Rules Don't Apply episode. I feel like there's so many people I want to talk about that movie with it. You know, I hope I like that movie more whenever I have to watch it again, because I do think it was one of the more miserable movie-dive experiences in my life. It's a bad movie.

not good. I mean, it is, but was there anything else ancillary to that that made it a particularly bad viewing experience? No, I just really hated the movie. Yeah, well, understandable. Vigo Mortensen's nominated for Captain Fantastic. He was also nominated for the Oscar. What I love about this nomination is Vigo Mortensen for a while there, it was always like, you want to know how old Vigo Mortensen is? People have stopped doing that now because he now just looks at least a little bit more of his age, but, like, there was a while there, because Vigo Mortensen does not become famous until, like, a decade or more into his career. I remember when we did our episodes on Carlito's Way, and we're, like, Vigo Mortensen,

like, Tiffany New York Pollard meme, like, Vigo Mortensen is in this? And that movie... Girl, Vigo Mortensen's screen debut is in Witness. Witness. And he's an adult, right? He's not even, like, a child in Witness. He's a full adult in Witness. And, like, he doesn't get famous until G.I.G...

Witness is 1985. G.I. Jane is 1997. Like, that's when he finally gets famous. Um, so it was always very funny that just like, Vigo Mortensen is 55 years old and people would be like, what? Um, so that's why I love that Kevin fantastic nomination. I think some of that. No one ever really like pinpoints why we make this mistake. And I think it's because he's seen in the Lord of the Rings movies as like a hot guy. Like, everybody has their own flavor of who's the hottest to them in the Lord of the Rings movies. And we never really say, yeah, that puts him, but it, like, it puts him on the same level as people who are, like, 15 and 20 years younger than him. So, like, there's this confusion that he might be there age.

He's in his early 40s, as Aragorn. And, like, he's, and, and. People think that he's 20, like, Orlando Bloom. People think he's, like, in his, like, late 20s. Yeah, because Orlando Bloom is. and like Elijah Wood is. Liv Tyler. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. So. Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. It is also nominated for... This is where I'm like, this is deranged. Best... Wait, sorry, I'm off of the script.

Best buddy picture. For Nick Offerman and John Carroll Lynch. Yep. It's just, first of all, they're brothers. Brothers can be buddies, but like, I agree with you and that, like, it's an odd distinction, yes. Second of all, they get fucked over. They sure do. It's not a buddy picture. And it's not even like best performance of buddies in a movie. It's best buddy picture. The founder is like canonically not a buddy picture. You know what's not also a buddy picture?

Fences. Even though Stephen McKinley Henderson and Denzel Washington are nominated for fences. You know what's also not a buddy picture? Genius. Colin Firth, Jude Law movie, genius. Like, there are two movies that could possibly be called a buddy movie, one of which is the nice guys, which I like and you don't, the Shane Black movie. But, like, that's a movie about, like... That is a buddy picture. That is a buddy comedy, like, with private eyes, right?

And, like, calling Absolutely Fabulous the movie a Buddy Picture is the kind of deranged that I appreciate. Yes, because I also love this win. Yeah, Jennifer Saunders and Joanna Lumley winning for Absolutely Fabulous the movie. Good for them. Good for them. But yes, absolutely deranged category. A category that they, I believe, discontinued after 2021 when the winner was, do you remember what the best buddy movie of 2021 was?

Isn't it something even more deranged? It's like pieces of a woman or something. It is Finch, Tom Hanks and Robot Caleb Landry Jones in Finch. Oh, pandemic or Tom Hanks was interesting. And I believe robot Caleb Landry Jones was like, he built a robot to, like, replace his son, wasn't it? What? Honestly, I'm not going to, I'm not going to swear to that. I have not seen Finch.

I have not seen Finch. So, yes, they discontinued the award after that because they were like, you know what? No more. We're good here. I mean, if you want to give an on-screen, like, duo, if you want to be the Geritol MTV Movie Awards, and you want to just do a duo, then just say, best on-screen duo? Or like, yes. The MTV Movie Awards eventually went from Best Onscreen Duo to Best On Screen Team so that they could award things like The Hangover, I'm pretty sure. And if you want to do that with the M4G's too, if you want to award things like Book Club or whatever, go for that

as well. Go for that as well. You don't have to hem yourself in by, you know, in a numbers game for duo. But like, yeah, buddy picture. Be specific. Well, and then that brings us to the third category. Yes. Best time capsule, which every time you see one of the lineups for best time capsule. A bugaboo of mine for years. Tell us what you mean. Because now this year they've changed it to best period movie or best time. A good change. A good change at long last. Now we know what you mean. And that makes a lot more sense because you know what makes more sense than describing loving as a best time capsule so that we can all fondly look back on the Halcyon days of, like, interracial marriages being, you know, illegal, we can now just say, oh, it's a period film.

And you're just like, yes, it sure is. It evokes the period well, because also Best Time Capsule, Jackie Winning, is also fucking weird. It's deranged. It's very deranged. It's very deranged. Yes. Calling the founder best Time Capsule is weird for a lot of reasons. one of which is like this isn't a movie like yes it is a movie that takes place in the past and yes i imagine like for some people the days of like you know crisp linens on their fast food

employees like uniformed like soda jerks or whatever like i guess that is evocative in a way but like i'm not sure that the founder the story of ray crock stealing mcdonalds out from under the two mcdonalds brothers counts as like uh those are the days Best Time Capsule. Best Time Capsule really does evoke this idea of, like, nostalgia and, like, good feelings for the way, you know... For what is being presented. Yes, yes. The thing we want to preserve, so that the aliens will know that it existed.

Speaking of Loving, Loving was the winner for Best Movie for Grownups that year, a thing I don't remember, over other Best Picture nominees in that field. La La Land, Lion, Manchester by the Sea. Of course, Sully, this is your God. Sully, Sully is your God. And then also, Marty Scorsese's Silence, which, you know what? Good for the M4G's voters for sitting through that movie and being like, this is a great movie. You know what? Sometimes the M4Gs will, like, make the right call, but it is not the right call you would expect them to make.

Because, like, silence being nominated for basically their best picture. Yes, correct, but also random. Yes, yes. The other thing I like about the M4Gs are the acting nominations that you would only get at the M4Gs. Like, I'm obviously thrilled that Annette Benning wins for 20th century women, and it's good and right that she wins here specifically. But only at the M4Gs will you get Sally Field nominated for Hello, My Name is Doris. You know what? Exactly right.

I don't think she was even Globe comedy nominated for that movie. I don't think she was either. Only at the Globes will you get Kevin Costner nominated for Hidden Figures. Sure. Yes. Do it. Only at the Globes will you get fucking, I mean, Helen Mirren for Eye in the Sky. They nominated Helen Mirren this year for Goodbye June, a movie that exists only in theory thus far.

But Helen Mirren, I looked it up because I was like, oh, they really love Helen Mirren. her 17th nomination, not counting her Lifetime Achievement Award that she won a few years ago. Incredible how much they love that woman. Incredible. Also nominated that year was Sigourney Weaver as the severe grandmother, aunt. Who is she in a monster calls? She's like the... She's the grandmother. She's the wicked stepmother figure, but she's the grandmother, right, in a monster calls.

A movie that has really left my head entirely. since seeing it at that TIF. Sigourney Weaver, back, back again this year as a nominee for Avatar, Fire, and Ash. That's another, like, you look at, so this year's nominations, I want to get into very briefly. Yes. Because we don't want to get, like, log down. Because we can go two hours just on these nominees. But, like, M4G's nominations this year have come, and, like, we're, you know, to quote

Andre Leon Talley, it's a famine of beauty. It's a famine of precursor awards yet. We're almost there. Almost at the deluge, but we're not there yet. By the time this episode airs, we will be there. We will be in the deluge, yes. But so a handful of nominees, at this stage of the game, we don't know which of these are going to be like the standalones, the throwaways, right? I'm suddenly real bullish on Ethan Hawk for Blue Moon. I really think that that could happen. From your lips to God's ears, one of my favorite performances of the year, one of the best performances of his career. I love Blue Moon. I do, too. Blue Moon's going to be the movie of 2025 that I watched 200. It's only grown in my esteem since I've seen it, which is great. I love that they nominated Delroy Lindo for sinners.

I really needed that particular campaign to get a little bit of boost, to get that engine revving. Speaking of engines. Amy Madigan. Oh, yes. I'm way more skeptical than a lot of smart people seem to be about Amy Madigan. So I am cautiously, I am cautiously optimistic about Amy Madigan. I will say that. But speaking of engines, chuga, chuga, chuga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chagga, chagg, chagg, chagg, chagg, dude.

We have been on the optimistic side of train dreams's chances from early on. It's been in my best picture predictions for the entirety of my gold rush run. I'll say, it was honestly the, at the time, the poor, Venice showing and the poor like tell you're the the festival reception to the Netflix slate I was like but train dreams is a movie that people really like it does seem like they're trying more than they did for his three daughters and now that people are seeing it yeah they're loving it like they're seeing a lot of people like reactionarily if that's a word being like that movie's not that good blah blah blah which to me says okay

Okay, it's a real thing. This movie is happening. It's getting backlash against. I'm just seeing a lot of people who are really, really enthusiastic about it. So I guess this is where my social feed is better than your social feed. But it gets, what is it? Two nominations, but it's for Best Picture and for Best Actor. No, it gets a couple, it gets three.

It also gets screenplay, I feel like, right? Oh, please. It gets one more beyond those two. What is it? No, Train Dream. has two nominations. Oh, it does. Well, anyway, two very good nominations. Not period film. That's weird. Also, I don't like that they've changed Best Picture to Best Picture instead of Best Movie for Grownups. Stay distinctive.

Stay distinctive. They have also retired, unfortunately, and we've talked about this before, because this is not the first time, Best Grown Up Love Story, which sucks because you know what would have been some good nominees for best grown-up love story? Oh, I don't know. How about Laura Dern and Will Arnett? And is this thing on? Well, like, would Hamnet count because it is a grown-up, is this, is a love story between two people who are too young for M4G qualification? I mean, Ryan Gosling for the nice guys is definitely counts as a buddy when he is not above 50. Okay. So yes. So Hamnet then, you throw in is this thing on. You throw in. You throw in what's another good

grown-up love story that you could throw in here but like there's a lot and I don't like losing that category it's very distinctive stay distinctive a private life would be

I know you haven't seen that very very strange movie yet gay guys go see Jody Foster in a private life you will understand what this movie is doing I'm not saying it's a great movie

but like oh I'm into that now it's kind of gay guy galaxy brain I'm into it Fun movie Best Intergenerational Film At least they're holding on to that one Even though that's always been one

That I've been like What does it all mean? It is so weird That one battle after another Is not in that category Yes, that's so weird You're totally right What are you talking about?

You gave it your top You gave it a nomination in your top category And not in this? What? Also, if you're going to go To the lengths of nominating Helen Mirren for Goodbye June, nominate goodbye June in this.

Like, isn't that, like, isn't the intergenerationalness so why, you know, so important to that? I do not believe that movie is real, but I have, I, I trust your commitment to it. Sentimental value makes perfect sense in that category. Eleanor the Great makes perfect sense. I have not seen Rosemede, but now that, like, it's getting these, like, handfuls of nomination. Oh, yeah, I want to watch it. I want to check it out, for sure.

Lucy Lou also got a nomination for that. rental family as an intergenerational film I sort of sneer at not because it doesn't count but because like the storylines that it talks about like he's friends with an old guy and he's like a father figure to this little girl and it's like well very contrived and then the lost bus is funny to me because it's like McConaughey and American America Ferreira and then like a bus full of kids and they're trying to like drive them through the flames and that's their intergenerational story and it's like I guess

cool I shouldn't laugh like it's so harrowing I haven't seen that movie yet but I've heard it as like not harrowing not good um you have seen it yeah I did not like that movie yeah it's really poorly shot in my opinion you can't tell what you're looking at I mean that doesn't seem to be ideal I will say that is it that do you think Paul greengrass has fallen off or is that like just a one you do I I certainly don't think that this the Paul Greengrass style is an appropriate avenue for this story. It felt really mismatched to me. But then again, like the way it's shot, like I could not tell what I was looking at for a lot of the movie.

It's been rough sailing for Paul Greengrass. I'm looking at his filmography now, not to really take us far afield, but like since Captain Phillips, which I think was a genuinely like phenomenal movie, Jason born in 2016, 22 July, which I like a lot better than a lot of other people, but like nobody else liked that movie. News of the World, which was like, you know, poster child for COVID lockdown movie, and now The Lost Bus.

And nothing's really made it. His upcoming movie, which is called The Uprising, which is set during the English Peasants Revolt, of 1381, which stars Andrew Garfield, Thomas and McKenzie, Jamie Bell, Cosmo Jarvis from Shogun, Woody Norman from Come on, Come On, Stephen Delane, Tom Hollander. Let's see.

Have they filmed? Yeah, filming began in fall of this year. So I'm not uninterested. This is a Focus Features movie, so it's going to not just. just get sent to Apple. I'm cautiously optimistic for this Paul Greengrass movie. I don't know what the Peasants Revolt is,

but it sounds fantastic. Good for the peasants. Can I tell you my two favorite nominations in this year's crops of? Do it. Not to overlap too much. But I would say Leonardo DiCaprio because if any of his assistants told him

he was nominated for an AARP Movies for Gronups Award, They lost their job. I want to see Leo's face when he was told that he was nominated for an AARP award. And then my earnest answer is Regina Hall for one battle after another. Happy to see her getting something. I think people who are quickly writing her off as a potential Oscar nominee should give themselves some pause. My instinct was to do that once I saw the movie.

and saw how small her role was comparatively to Tiana Taylor and Chase Infinity. Now that they've moved Chase Infinity to lead and there's a little bit more room and the number of times I've seen people be like, well, what about Regina Hall? And I did initially chalk that up. We talked about this before.

I initially chalked that up to people who a year ago had put Regina Hall on their predictions and don't want to be wrong when it seemed like Regina Hall was like the second lead for this movie. But... There's enthusiasm for it. And there's, of course, enthusiasm for one battle after another

in general. And my only thing is, like, supporting actress isn't uncrowded, and it's particularly crowded with, like, pairs of people from other movies. Yeah, I think it's maybe the most crowded category of likely nominees. And I would... How am I going to phrase this? I love Regina Hall, and I think she's very good in one battle after another. But if it's the choice between her and like Inga Ibs daughter Lilius for sentimental value or Wunmi Masaku for sinners

I'm going to go for those actresses. Do you know what I mean? I hear you. I just think that there's more possibility that she could be nominated than people I think are currently at right now. I agree with you. I agree with that. She's also a name that people in Hollywood know. She's had a long career. She hosted the Oscars a few years ago. Yeah.

She got Will Smith's psyche all riled up on route to slapping Chris Rock. I do believe, that is my conspiracy theory, that if Regina Hall had not made that joke about Will Smith's open marriage, that he maybe doesn't slap Chris Rock. Like, that's the weird little, like, domino. The little domino is Regina Hall making the joke about Will Smith's open marriage. And the big domino is Will Smith is banned from the Oscars for 10 years. So, yeah. all right anything else do we want to go through our notebooks the founder not a good movie i'm glad we finally did this this is one of those movies this is part of the reason why i was like let's get

this on the books is because this is a movie that we hear from listeners all the time of like yeah uh when are we going to do this movie because i think that this is uh you know these these movies have changed as we have like done so many episodes but i think there are a certain core set of movies that when you say what the concept of our show is for our listeners our listeners would be like like the founder

like X Y and C this is a very like straight down the middle of what our show is type of movie a movie that exists only in the culture because it had Oscar buzz though I mean again the star of the movie is

McDonald's so you watch this and it's like oh this is how Normies did have some interest in this movie. Normie's non-pejorative. I saw a tweet earlier this week that the McRib is back on the menu. I may have to swallow my pride and swallow a McRib at some point in the next week. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. We shall see. Ray Crock, you win this round, you son of a bitch. Joe, should we move on to the IMDB game? Yeah.

We said this week we're going to do reverse IMDB game again. Oh, right. Shit. I totally forgot that. Give me half a second. I will do that. Shit. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. I can pivot. the reverse IMDB game works? Would I ever? Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, but this week we are doing the reverse IMDB game. How this game works is that instead of getting the name of an actor or actress and try and guess their IMDB known for, we will one at a time and in the

order of the clue givers choosing, name the four films from an unnamed actors known for. After each film, the guesser can try and answer who the actor or actress is. If they get it right after one movie is named, they get four points. If they get it after two movies, it's three points. After three movies, it's two points. And finally, after all four movies are revealed, a correct guess is one point. We've been playing this periodically, and we are keeping a running score to what end we have still not figured it out. But Chris is currently in the lead eight to four.

That's the reverse IMDV game. All right. Do you want to give her guess first? I will guess first Okay The first The first title I am giving you For this performer

Who we have never done In either version of the IMDB game I love it Is quiz show Hmm All right So this is a question of How many cast members

From Quiz Show do I remember There are quite a A lot of quiz show cast members. And also, who from the cast of quiz show would have this movie in there known for? Like Miris Sorvino? Probably not. John Titoro, maybe. Paul Schofield, maybe.

Ray Fines, probably not. So I'm going to guess Paul Schofield. Incorrect. Your next time. title is Thelma and Louise. Okay. So, cast members who are in both Quiz Show and Thelma and Louise, cast members in Thelma and Louise include Michael Madsen, Harvey Kitell, Brad Pitt, Susan Gina, obviously.

Quiz show, Thelma, and Louise. In Quiz show, you have people like Hank as a Zhaelma. Zaria. You have David Pamer. You have Martin Scorsese. You have Christopher McDonald. Is it Christopher McDonald? Fuck, it's Christopher McDonald. All right. All right. So that's three for me, right? Yes. Hell yeah. That's showing yet. An ad started playing and now that's all I can hear.

Oh, okay. Get rid of it. I got it. I got it. Okay. A truck ad on the page for Christopher McDowell. Man, you believe it. How dare? The other titles... Fuck, it did it again. Sorry.

That's okay. The other titles. The other titles on Christopher McDonald's known for are happy Gilmore. I was saving that for last. And then the television program, Harry's Law. Oh, wow. Okay. Kathy Bates.

And the poster is Kathy Bates with a gun. I will say if you had thrown in Harry's Law, before either one of the other ones, it would have been harder for me. Yeah, yeah. I'm realizing that now. I just feel like with your television knowledge, I think I held back that one. Understandable. Understandable.

Does he know what Harry's law is? You never know. I don't. You never know what knowledge I could have, I could pull out about any random television shows. Exactly. Because if you were doing that one for me, you would say Harry's Law first, period. This is true.

All right. I am going to start for you with the Basketball Diaries. Mm, another big cast. Mm-hmm. But also, how did you get there? I'm thinking you're going to get there through John Lee Hancock. And from the movies we mentioned, it could be a number of things.

it could be trying to remember I'm going to say I mean I could kind of believe most cast members would have love and basketball because that's a huge movie everybody loves that movie

Not love and basketball The Basketball Diaries Oh Of course I think about the movie I would rather talk about love and basketball That is a perfect Chris file brain input output situation where you input

the basketball you would be like what is the basketball diaries I would be like did you mean love in basketball what is the founder do you mean the social network okay so the basketball

diaries do I remember all the twinks of the basketball diary I don't but I am guessing that it's going to be someone who is famous for being in a John Leehan Concock movie. Probably someone

and we are a marshal. Lucas Haas. Not Lucas Haas. Your second one is Good Morning Vietnam. So this is an older actor maybe. What are the other John Leighamcox?

Is it Vigo Mortensen? It is not Vigo Mortensen. The third clue is city slickers. Wow. Is it Bruno Kirby? It is Bruno Kirby, yes. I did not go through anybody. He's in the basketball diaries?

He is apparently in the basketball diaries, yes. And I'm guessing the fourth is when Harry met Sally. It is indeed, you bet your wagon wheel coffee table. It is when Harry met Sally. Okay, Bruno Kirby is not in a John Lee Hancock. He sure isn't. How did you get to Bruno Kirby? I clicked on Jason Patrick from the Alamo

and then I clicked on sleepers, I think, and I think he's in sleepers. Is that how I got there? I love Bruno Kirby. Yes. Sometimes you just sort of click, click, click, and you end up in a movie and you're just like, all right, let's do it. I know you love Bruno Kirby.

That is why I chose him. All right, so I win this round. This is my first win. So I think now we are at 10 to 7 in the season. Yes. All right. Is there a way we can mark that down in the spreadsheet somewhere? I'll mark it.

I can do that after also. I got it. We have a column for it, apparently. Hooray. All righty. That is our episode. If you want more This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz.

Joe, where can the listener find more of you? You should check me out at Vulture, where I am covering awards, and I'm doing Cinematrix stuff, and I'm doing movie fantasy league stuff, and all of it is fun and cool. I am also on Blue Sky and Letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled R-E-I-D. I also have a Patreon exclusive podcast on the films of Demi Moore, called Demi Myself and I that can be found at patreon.com slash Demi-M-M-I-P-O-D. And you can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris.

V-File. That's F-E-I-L. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Meevius for their technical guidance when we need it because we are not smart with podcast stuff. And for Taylor Cole, for our theme music, please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast.

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