This Had Oscar Buzz - 380 – The Company

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

After the tremendous success and Oscar comeback for Robert Altman with 2001’s Gosford Park, the idiosyncratic director delivered a more understated work for what would become his second-to-last film, 2003’s The Company. Set within Chicago’s Joffrey Ballet, the film follows a dance company both on and offstage, all in their sometimes less than glamour pursuit of artistry. … Continue reading "380 – The Company"

Hello, the right house. We want to talk to Mill and Heck. Mill and Heck. I'm from Canada, Wardle, Dick Poop, James Franco, and Malcolm McDowell. Hit the wall. I want you to move out. The discipline. Thinking the movement is not becoming the movement.

The sacrifice, the passion of dance. Hello and welcome to the This Head Off. Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast sent off to war by Andrea Rosemary's parents. Every week on this head, Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my primo snake ballerino, Joe Reed. Not ballerino, I love it. Is that, is that, I hope so. You know what? It should, it would make sense that it would be. I've just maybe never, have heard that term.

Ballet, Gary's, don't get at us, because I'm sure you're going to have other things to get at us about this episode about it. Ah, ballet. That should be just the title of this episode. That was the teaser. That was the tease. Ah, ballet. It's so good. Always funny.

Always funny. The company. Not to be confused with the company men, which is the Ben Affleck and Chris Cooper got laid off movie from... John Wells, John Wells Cinema, which we have not done. 11? Mm-hmm? 2011? No, but what year was that?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lost a time, the company men. No, the company, when you try to search it for IMDB or in any other type of movie search thing, it's like, the company of what? The company of wolves? The company of... The company of men?

Yep. Yes, the Altman's the company is like way, way, way down the list when you go searching The company of Snake Ballerinos. I mean, it's yes. And

yes, so this is one of those movies that I thought I had watched before and then I started watching it and I'm like, maybe I haven't seen this before because I feel like I would remember things like the snake ballet. I saw it in theater, but I didn't remember the snake ballet. I definitely didn't remember the snake ballet. I will say when I saw this in theaters, I was in high school and I'm so happy that this is better than I remembered it being and doesn't speak well of high school me to be like, that movie was boring. Because I actually think this is pretty interesting for things that we'll get into. I think there's stuff that's less interesting in this movie.

Yes, but I think also watching this movie, I had the thought of like somebody approaching this movie and being like, oh, so it's like Nashville but for ballet. And there's scenes of it that do feel like that. But I think going in with that expectation is bad for this movie for lots of reasons, one of which is, not least of which is because like Nashville is full of like stars. and this movie isn't, you know what I mean? This movie is filled with a real ballet company. Right, right. And that... And then stars where it makes sense.

Right. But, like, that has its pros and cons. And it works for these sort of, like, big wide shots of, you know, just full-on, like, ballet numbers. With various accoutrement, you know what I mean? Whether it's, like, banners or whatever. And then, but it's maybe less, I think there is something to the Altman overlapping dialogue thing of like, you know, roving cameras and sort of moving through backstage and thinking of like a Prairie Home Companion, but certainly also Nashville, that I don't think it necessarily requires stars, but like it's, I think lingering on those little conversations. helps if there are these really compelling, you know, sort of like even character actors or whatever.

I think, I don't know if I necessarily want to, like, drag, you know, these people from being, like, not compelling as actors. But there is certainly more of a sense of that they exist as kind of a mass of people and not, like, individuals. There are, like, certain individuals who emerge from this. but they really have to be like singled out by the narrative a little bit. You've got the guy who's trying to like write his own ballet and you see him, you know, sort of rehearsing by himself for a while.

You've got, you know, poor, poor beleaguered Justin, whose father will demand a leading role for him. You've got the one who's, you know, sleeping on the floor of the flop house. You've got her... Offering up condoms to all. of his 17 roommates. 100%. You want condoms?

This kid's got him. And, like, Nev's ex-boyfriend and his sort of, like, new girl or whatever. But it's more often that they just sort of exist as, like, all of them together at, like, rehearsal or at the Christmas party or, you know, backstage after the show. Well, I think this movie pulls it off because there is a thing about Altman movies that even when you have a Nashville where you have

incredible performances every single scene happening it's still at the end of the day a directing movie and it's all about the point of view so it's like the individual performances can matter less like there's not a lot of directors that could pull this off

or it could pull off the feet of basically your entire cast is, you know, non-actors. Right. Performers, but non-actors. And the intention of them not necessarily being actors delivering performances. I think that's one of the trade-offs you get with this movie is if you had nothing but actors or character actors playing these ballerinas and these ballerinos as we. we've maybe or maybe not coined. You get that naturalism of what this environment is actually like. You get that sense of in a green room at any point of the day,

five different stories can be happening so you can have that overlapping Altman thing. Yes. But I think in that aspect of really feeling like immersive to what a ballet company would be like, Yes. Can I tell you who I thought about constantly watching this movie? Please. Frederick Wiseman. I wrote that down in my notes. Altman made a Wiseman guy.

Yes. That's kind of what the vibe of this movie is. All the scenes where they're like trying to clear the table to have the meeting with the choreographer about the snake thing. Yes. Like I literally wrote that down. I was like this is this feels like a Wiseman movie. Yeah. And I mean, that's kind of one of the more.

interesting things that I was like, oh, I'm totally surprised how late 30s me can really, really enjoy this movie. But high school me was disinterested. Yep, yep, yep, yep, absolutely. And also why this movie didn't really land, you know, and didn't ever really take off. Well, particularly because, and I texted our friend Griffin Newman about this, because I know he's an Altman guy. And I'm watching this movie.

And I'm just like, oh, right, this is his, like, post-Gosford Park movie. It is. This is essentially his blank check, or a blank check for him. Certainly, he had career peaks before Gosford Park. But so I texted Griffin. But certainly also sets the expectation very, very high. Right. Especially in an award sense in a way that this movie and the movie that is trying to be

is never going to fulfill that, you know, bar. You know, it's not really even intending to be that type of thing. Oftentimes with these big autors, we get into this question of, is this a major work or a minor work? And, you know, often that word minor gets sort of thrown around as a way to, like, slight something without really, like, going in on it and whatever. I would call the company minor Altman, but without any kind of, animus there. You know what I mean?

I don't feel like... I would maybe even say it's somewhere in the middle leaning towards minor rather than actual minor. And that's only because you have someone like Altman who made so many movies and so many movies that we don't even really discuss or may not be the most readily available that it's like, well, those are real minor

words. But I don't even say it in terms of like, oh, like rank all the Altmans and like, where does this situate? It's almost, for me, it's more of a scope and ambition kind of a thing. And like, that's even odd to say because obviously this movie is an undertaking, you know what I mean? In a way that like a Wiseman movie, you know, would be an undertaking. And yet, um, because he's not dealing with, because he's not dealing with major stars, and because he's not dealing with much of a narrative, I think it sort of feels decidedly

like minor in scope. Like, the ways in which there is no real conflict in this movie is very interesting, or that the conflict comes from, I don't even know if I would say like the conflict comes from within or whatever. We see characters who have you know, arcs, you know, or concerns or dilemmas or whatever. But like, by the end of the movie,

she's hurt her arm. Franco's burned his hand off screen. The ballet is fine. Nobody has to really, like, go out of their way to, like, rescue the ballet, even though she, like, breaks her arm in the middle of it or whatever, dislocates a shoulder, whatever the fuck happens to her. And the snake ballet, which I've decided is based off of, somehow, based off of Maloha snake. I literally thought that, too. We're so fucking weird brain damaged. I literally said that too. I love that we're on the same wavelength. The Maloha snake. It's good for the show when we disagree, but it's nice to be just like fully. Sharing brain space. Also, by the way, that choreographer is a real choreographer, but like is a real

choreographer playing himself and that snake ballet apparently really existed. It really is the type of thing that like in a Wiseman is something that punctuates it so much that it's like every time he shows up it's like this fucking

guy. This fucking guy. Yes. This fucking guy with his snake ballet. All respect to the actual artist but the movie whether he realizes it or not sets him up to drive us crazy. Yes. Yes. Yes. And for us to be very skeptical of this.

And then the ballet ends up being pretty entertaining. I guess, but it's deeply weird to see this fucking snake on the stage. You know what I mean? It is a little like Pandora ballet. It is a little bit like these are the Ometikaya. It is very navi. You know. It's very navi, you fucking weirdo.

Sorry. No, no, you had to. You had to. It's fine. But you get it, right? Like, you watch it, and it's like, oh, this sounds so stupid, but I love this. Much like the Avatar universe. You are absolutely the first person to compare the Avatar universe to Robert Altman's 2003 film The Company.

Only for the Maloha Snake Bellet. Only for the Maloja Snake. Yes, yes, absolutely. If you don't know what we're talking about, go watch Clouds of Sills Maria. You'll understand. We should talk about the genesis of this project before we get into the plot, though, because this... I did want to bring it back to this, because it is so interesting that after the high of Gossford Park, this is a... You know, the movie that he ends up making is something that was developed by a star where they kind of...

recruited Altman in a way, and he originally turned this movie down, and Neve Campbell developed this from when she was a Canadian ballerina. Yeah, she went to school at the National Ballet School of Canada, and is this a storyline in the craft? Isn't that her character in the craft that she's like a dancer or whatever, but she had her, she was in a fire and she had, skin grafts or something like that. I believe that's like a thing. Yes. But otherwise, this isn't really present in her career, in her film career, in her TV career in any way. You don't really see this recur for her.

This, you know, she's not really in a whole lot of things that would call upon her to dance. I think it speaks well to her because she developed it with the screenwriter Barbara Turner and that they were able to get, like, to like, try to get Robert Altman on board, which is like, What can you even compare that to now? Just such a distinct filmmaker who approaches things in a specific way for the most unlikely of projects. Maybe it's the type of thing that it's like, this will only get off the ground if we have a Robert Altman attached to it. This is our third Altman after Dr. T. and the Women and a Prairie Home Companion. We've now covered three of his last four feature films with Gosford Park in the middle as this, like, blazing Oscar success.

Do you remember the period of time where it seemed possible that a beautiful mind might win best picture, but Altman might win best director? Yes. Didn't he win the golden globe? The wind went out of that sale when he did. didn't get a DGA nomination, which is still pretty shocking. It's very shocking. But at the time was like, well, maybe that won't happen. Who got it instead of him?

Jackman. Wait. Was it Jackman? Hold on. What are we talking about? Or Peter Jackson. I was going to say, who are you talking about? Hugh Jackman. Sorry.

You just said that in Joan Plowwright's voice. I love that. I usually do think. Judy Bench. Peter Jackman. Peter Jackson for fellowship. One of those large spectacle movies. But Jackson was nominated for the Oscar, too.

It was Howard Jackson, Christopher Nolan for Memento, is who we're talking about. Baz Luhrman for Mulan Rouge, too. It was Ron Howard, Peter Jackson for fellowship, Baz Lerman for Mulan Rouge, Christopher Nolan for Memento, and Ridley Scott for Black Hawk Down. And then the Oscars went and nominated... What was that confusing that for? What's that? confusing that for. I'm not sure. Yeah. But then the Oscars went and swapped in Altman for

Lerman, I guess, and then David Lynch for Christopher Nolan and David Lynch for Mahaland Drive. Very strange, actually, that Altman would have missed DGA there. But I do remember for a moment there, it did seem like there was going to be a drumbeat for him winning. And it does feel Like, in that was the Genesis for we should give him an honorary Oscar. Because didn't the, right, the honorary Oscar came right as Prairie Home Companion was about to come out, because it was Streep and Lily Tomlin doing the presentation. But that did feel like, and maybe it's like, well, he almost, you know, he was in contention for Gosford Park. And then the company comes out, and he's like, it's like nowhere near. an Oscar thing. And maybe then they're just like, well, let's not wait for a competitive

situation to come along. Let's just give him the Oscar. I, by the way, tangent just watched last night the Diane Warren documentary. Go off. Tell me everything. Well, first of all, I mean, it's a very... The listeners want to hear what you think of the Diane Warren Oscar-nominated documentary. As a documentary, it's just incredible, it's not much of anything. It's incredibly rudimentary. But it also is giving you kind of everything you want in that you have share

and you have you know, also Diane comes across and like this is like a major through line through the movie of like Diane is just a complete pain in the ass and like everybody kind of says so and she even

you know says so. She's earned that stature. She's earned that stature but she's also like there are so much cutaways to like a mug that is like my personality type is bitch. You know what I mean? It's like all of this. It's just like little signs that are like just like fuck off I'm working. You know what I mean?

Like all this. And it's everywhere. You think it's like one or two things. There's like there's no fewer than 12 shots of like little things like this. And it's everywhere. Her entire personality is built around. this very sort of like... Those old lady greeting cards.

You know the ones where it's like... 100%. Absolutely. You know the ones I'm talking about. I do know the ones you're talking about. Those shoebox greetings or whatever. It's that. Yes. And it's so many of them.

If you gave her the only thing in life she loves more than her songs as her cat, and you do see her morn, her dead cat, who looks eight billion years old, Chris. I can't even... They show you up close of this. And it's so sad because it's like, it's... this dying cat, but it's got like bald patches everywhere. And it's just like, it's so old and decrepit. And it's, and it's already.

I was not going to watch this. I was not going to be a good one of this year. But now I have to watch this. You, it's 90 minutes. It's 90 minutes. You have no, you really do. I need somebody to talk about it if nothing else. It's not even that particular.

That's the other thing is sort of, they focus on the fact that like, her mom seemed like a real piece of work. And, like, was like, everybody who talks about her mom, they're like, Diane's mom was not a loving person. And it's just like, it's all this. And like, her dad was the one who supported her. Because You Loved Me was written about her dad. She's never had an actual, like, romantic relationship.

Everybody thinks she and Catherine Narducci, who, if you watch The Sopranos, was Ardi Bucca's wife and the Sopranos, who is like her best friend. and I'm like, is it best friend? But, like, Diane makes a solid case that she's just, like, completely a romantic. But anyway, that's the only real, like, arc in the movie. It's just, like, Diane's triumph over having a mom who wasn't very loving. But, like, they try very hard to sort of draw this arc of, like, overcoming obstacles and whatever, because, of course, it has to lead up to the song.

that is all about her overcoming obstacles. And it's a song written as a letter to her younger self, right? Is the title Overcoming Obstacles? No, it's called Dear Me, remember? So it's like it's... Oh, this is the Oscar-nominated song. This is the Oscar-nominated song. Okay, Diane Warren writes a song called Overcoming Obstacles.

Who sings that song? Celine. No, not today. Well, no, not today. Today, it's going to be like Ray. Well, yes. Oh, yes, absolutely. Current day, Diane Warren,

is writing songs for like Sabrina Carpenter. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. They show her at the end with that. I think it's Sophia Carson with her at the end. But no, they make it the implication that Celine like stopped working with her because she was too much of a pain in the ass. Is there anything on the level of in the Liza doc, Liza?

I know that I've set this on Mike a million times. But is there anything on the level of the Liza doc when Liza says that it very emphatically asserts that no one did drugs at Studio 54? there's nothing quite that brazenly lying because like Diane does sort of like cop to essentially everything she should she has this thing framed on her wall about like somebody

did a list of like the top 10 greatest songwriters of all time and it's like you know like Bob Dylan the Beatles Bruce Springsteen whatever and she's like at six and she's like I don't know why I'm on this list she's like

I'm the only woman she's like where's Carol King where's Laura Niro. So she's very sort of like, she's self-aware in that regard, even though like she remembers every slight anybody ever made against her. And like, she's so upfront about the fact that like she wants to win an Oscar and how much that is, you know, that would be validation for her. They'd show the Oscar party that her friends had at her apartment while she was nominated for the Four Good Days.

song for sometimes you do. Somehow you do. Somehow you do. Well, Diane would take that as a slight. And everybody in her apartment is like outraged that she lost, even though nobody thought she was going to win for that. They absolutely

focus on her losing to Sam Smith that year. And like they show how like upset she was. Because like this is the other thing is like, Lady Gaga takes it in stride, you know what I mean? Like, she's after, you know, the commercial break, she's there talking to all the survivors and whatever. And then, like, but like Diane, like, couldn't, like, does not get over these things. And so I, there's only so much I'm going to, like, knock somebody

for wanting to win an Oscar this much. But, like, it really reminded me of the J-Lo doc, too, which also, like, took incredibly seriously. Because there's a sequence where Diane has a Angels and America Tribunal in Space. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just like Jailo did. No, not that one. The half-half-time doc.

Jayla, make a documentary every year, please. Truly. But that one has like a whole thing where they show her, you know, the morning that she doesn't get the Hustlers nomination. And she's like incredibly crestfallen. And it's just like, there's only so much I'm going to knock you for wanting to win an Oscar that bad.

Even though she has won an honorary Oscar Diane has. And so she probably. probably should just like take that as validation and be okay with it. But no, absolutely not. Well, you know who has an honorary Oscar and no competitive Oscar? Robert Altman. We'll bring it back.

Okay. You know, contemporaries. Robert Altman and Diane. That was your Diane Warren corner. Yeah. So Neff Campbell brings, essentially just like hounds Robert Altman into directing this project. Clearly, she wasn't wrong.

You wrote down the artist's statement that he had made before this movie, which I think is probably good to get into before we get into talking of the movie because it's a good, I wish we had this for every movie that we talked about, a director's artist's statement. Right. I, you know, it's not, I read this statement, the director's statement after I watched this movie. And it's not something thematically that I thought about while watching. the movie, but it did kind of recontextualize the movie for me, especially in terms of his career, and especially because this was a project that was brought to him, not something that he developed. I think it's fascinating. I'll read this, and I've abbreviated it somewhat. Yeah. I want the company to show this world in all of its contradictions. Here are world-class artists who, for the most part, are poorly paid and live hand-to-mouth, often in very unglamorous conditions.

They take immaculate care of their bodies while smoking countless cigarettes, downing endless cups of coffee, and working punishing hours. Their daily reality includes bloody feet, bludgeoned ambitions, and the work itself, in all its demanding beauty. On a daily basis, and in most possible in dramatic terms, dancers face what we all face, biological clocks, and the force of gravity telling us no. Yet for some part of their working lives, dancers literally prevail over those forces. So for Altman, at the end of his life, basically, to be making a movie about artistic purpose and the degradation of the body. In the face of a ticking clock, yeah.

Yeah, effectively making a death movie or like a body movie at that stage. I think it's really interesting. And I don't think it's something that critics at the time thought about at all. And like when I watched it, I didn't think about that at all, too. But I think this is an interesting late career movie that definitely deserves consideration in those regards in terms of. It is a sort of, it's a thing that is unique to dancers and also I think athletes. I think challengers touches on this a little bit too, this idea that like you are budding up against a wall. that will mark the end of your viability and in this thing you have chosen to dedicate your life to.

And you will do that at age like 29. You know what I mean? That like there is a absolute like end, you know, end line, a point at which you will no longer be able to do this thing that you've dedicated your life to. And it's like, okay, well, how do you react to that at that age rather than at age? 70 or 80, you know what I mean? And because I think we do see, you know, those stories too, this sort of like this aging lion, you know, kind of thing. But it presents so differently when you are doing it, you know, when you are, you know, doing it so young. And what is that, how does that change the equation? I also think it's very interesting and also very Altman.

when he talks about those contradictions that he mentions, both for like the creative process and as a movie about the body, where it's like maybe we don't even think of a more, maybe opera, a more highfalutin, high art, you know, the beauty of an art form than ballet. But the reality for the artist is as unglamorous as it can be,

basically. They're doing it truly because of the love of the art form and this is a movie that does show people just sleeping on floors so that they can be the member of the Joffrey Ballet, this very prestigious ballet company. And

like that's of course natural to a natural fit for Altman because it's always, he does a lot of backstage type of things, whether it's film or stage or the music industry. And then the contradictions of taking care of our bodies.

You know, this is, he's portraying an art form that's very much like, effectively athletes. You know, they have to be mindful and take care of their bodies. But then they're also doing these things actively that degrade their bodies at the same time. Yeah. It is very, I think, not surprising to hear him coming from him and the type of things that fascinate him. But very interesting. Yes. Yeah. Everything is so exacting in terms of form. in terms of, you know, that the difference between a, you know, somebody who gets lead roles in this company and somebody who is relegated to the ensemble is, or somebody who, like, can't cut it in the company at all is, like, a matter of degrees of, like, how intentionally you can point your toe or how straight, you know, you can make your, the lines of your body, like, this kind of thing. And the margins at this level, I imagine, are incredibly thin.

And that must drive people insane. You know what I mean? The idea of like a safety net, you know, because you have these little rich children who have their parents, you know, raising a ruckus if they're not the lead of the ballet. But then you also have these people who have nothing who are sleeping on dining room floors next to three other people. And, you know, when you see those other people who are just there with so much, it's like, well, fuck you. Yes. Yes. Well, and that also, and it makes you think, like, who is able to flourish in these things.

And it's not hard to draw that line to any other part of the arts, you know, whether it's filmmaking or acting or, you know, you know, Broadway. But I think Altman isn't showing it as if you have that safety net or if you have that privilege, that it necessarily means anything for your success, which I think is interesting and not the narrative you always get. That also that you would have that sense of, you know, money or whatever or access. Mm-hmm. Doesn't make you a good artist, you know?

Right, right. Yes. But he also doesn't treat talent as some kind of like heaven-bustowed, you know, preternatural kind of thing either. This movie obviously doesn't dwell in that kind of romanticism, which to me makes it a little more romantic. Like, this is the kind of, like, the romance of the sort of mundane in this, to me, is much more effective. Like, that's something I really, you know, sort of caught into in this. And, like, I was so obsessed with her apartment in this. and it is not a particularly glamorous apartment, right? It's not particularly big.

But it's sizable, you know what I mean? It's got a nice little bathtub and, you know, kitchenery and whatever. But I was just like the ability to have a place like that in a city like Chicago being able to, do what she's doing. And yes, she has to, like, work at this bar, you know, nights and weekends and whatnot. But, like, I don't know, I'm very, very susceptible to the romance of that kind of thing these days for whatever reason. So as compared to the actual romance in the movie, which we'll

get into it. We're getting pretty deep into the thematic movie. So I want to do our table setting, get into the plot description so we can dive even deeper into this movie. But before we do that, Joe, why don't you tell the listeners about our Patreon? Yeah, we have a Patreon that you can subscribe to. It is called This Had Oscar Buzz Tribunal of Brilliant. It costs

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but nothing else, deserved much, much more. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. R.I.P. Ryder, Robin Michelle, Reiner and it was a really fun discussion. And we have been doing such discussions for several years. So we have a big old back catalog of exceptions. Back to Rob Marshall's nine, you know, several years ago, up through, you know, contact and big fish and Phantom of the Opera and Mulholland Drive,

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We'll talk about old award shows. We'll talk about old EW issues. We'll talk about various odd little corners of the Oscars, like those I'm an actor speeches at the Golden Globes. This month, we present to you the third annual. This had Oscar of us superlatives. Our little crack at an awards show, we've done it two years prior,

and we are getting exceedingly demented at it. So that is super fun. We're going to have our picks for the best of the year and the weirdest of the year. And it's very, very fun. And I think you will very much enjoy it if you are at all attuned to our wavelength. So for all of this goodness and more, you can subscribe to our Patreon at patreon. At patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Joe, we are here talking about the company

directed by Robert Altman, written by Barbara Turner, with an additional story credit to Neve Campbell. Starring Neff Campbell, Malcolm McDowell, we will get into it. James Franco, we won't really get it. I tease my feelings about the romance. We'll talk about it.

We'll talk about it. Barbara Robertson and the company, wink, wink, of the Joffrey Ballet of Chicago. The movie premiered as a TIF Gala and then opened limited Christmas Day 2003. Indeed. What else are you going to do but go see the company with the family?

On Christmas? Yes, Christmas 20 or 2003. I guarantee you at the Lincoln Plaza Cinema, rest in peace. Absolutely. What a great place to see the company. Top five weekend box office. You will not be surprised that Lord of the Rings, return of the king, was continuing its reign at number one. $70 million second weekend.

I think any movie would be happy to have a $70 million. Yeah. Granted, it's Christmas, but number two, cheaper by the dozen. I've heard that it is cheaper by the dozen. A movie about economic anxiety. It is a family that every week goes to the grocery store. and tries to buy eggs and they're always too expensive. Poor Bonnie Hunt is all I have to say to that.

This is Bonnie Hunt and Steve Martin, right? Yes. And then the other one was Dennis Quaid and Renee Russo, right? That is yours, mine, and ours? I believe so. The trend of blended family comedies. Movies about Steve Martin should be getting a vasectomy. Yeah.

Movies about family. that are, you know, destroying the earth with their carbon footprint. Wow, wow. I'm sorry, I think it's irresponsible to have that many children. Chris said wrap it up for the environment. All right.

Third place, cold mountain. Cold mountain. Why are you so cold? You stay so very cold, you mountain. Wait, what are you? Oh, you're singing Moon River, and I'm singing Goldfinger. That's funny.

Oh, okay. It's such a cold mountain. Bapah! Anyway. Something's got to give in fourth place, and then forgotten Mel Gibson movie, Paycheck. Paycheck.

Paycheck. A terrible title that tells you nothing about what that movie's about. I don't know if there's a paycheck involved. I assume there is. Is it Paycheck the Ben Affleck movie? Oh, wrong. Oh, I'm thinking payback.

See, vague title confuses it with another movie. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Paycheck is the John Wu movie with Ben Affleck, Uma Thurman, Aaron Eckhart. Considered a bomb. Based on a Philip K. Dick story. That's right, because Paycheck is one of those movies that's like part of the Ben Affleck is over narrative. Yes, yes. At this point.

And I remember, like, Entertainment Weekly making jokes about like that it's a paycheck, movie that it's like a just a cash in yeah does he have a paycheck in that movie it's a good question i wouldn't know i guess payback is a decent title for a p o s action movie payback i don't know paycheck sounds like a workplace comedy well yes it does who's the female uh who's the i'm assuming love interest in payback, do you think? No idea. Well, it's actually... There are three female roles in payback, so I don't know which one is the...

No, the love... Okay, the love interest is who I thought it was. Never been nominated for an Oscar, although almost got nominated this very year of 2003 that we're talking about with the company. Is it Oh, I almost said Gwyneth? No, not Gwyneth.

A little flintier than Gwyneth. Blonde. Picture her like tending bar. This year? No, well, no. Picture her tending bar. Picture her participating in a book club. Picture her.

I'm thinking of the literal cast of book club, which... Not that book club, but a book club about a particular author. A Jane Austen book club. Yes. Emily Blunt. No. American. Who else is in Jane Austen book club?

Lead actress or supporting actress this year? Supporting actress. Because everyone I'm thinking of is too young. Has a producer and writer credit on a movie from a few years ago that did not star her and you're like, really? Her. No, because not this year, but I thought of Maria Bello and that's not even a writing credit that's producing Woman King.

Yes, but it is Maria Bello because she almost got Oscar nominated for the cooler. Oh, you said this year, and I'm thinking 2025, not 2003. No, I'm saying this year that we're discussing. I'm really not killing it this episode. That's all right. That's all right. I'm really not. My brain is fried.

because of life. But anyway, also opening on Christmas Day with the company, Monster. Monster. She's a monster, I tell you.

That's what everybody says in that movie, right? That Eileen Warnos, she's a monster! She's such a monster. She's such a monster. Herb, get in here. We're talking about Eileen Wernos. There's a monster on the TV.

There's a monster on the TV. Stupid. Anyway, Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description for the company? Sure. Sure. At the near 45-minute mark episode, a minute of the company episode. Sure. All right.

Your 60-second plot description for the company starts now. All right, toes point, snake coils, in comes company. We're at the Joffrey Ballet in Chicago for a season of ambition, injury, ego, and overlapping dialogue among a cast of talented dancers and instructors, all under the direction of benign egotist Alberto Antonelli. The one dancer we recognize as Nevker. Campbell playing Rye, who is dealing with an ex-boyfriend in the company who's dating someone new, who's also in the company. But that's all secondary to the fact that she gets promoted to lead

performances, including a pot-to-do with outdoors in the rain to My Funny Valentine, which has Antenelli and Rye's mother spinning off into stage, which has Antenelli approving and Rye's mother spinning off into stage mother convulsions. The dancers, including Rye, go through various rehearsals and encounter struggles. A bunch of dancers are all shacked up together in one apartment, where twinks sleep on the floor and condoms are requested in hushed tones. Rye, meanwhile, wears her Velma Kelly wig while she goes to work at not a lesbian bar, but not a lesbian bar. She also beats with up-and-coming young chef James Franco

while she's out shooting pool, like the coolest chick in Chicago, despite the fact that her apartment has glass-block decor literally everywhere. The big production that the season is working up towards is by this French-Canadian choreographer, who is apparently real, as is his show, the Blue Snake, which seems sorry to this man to be absolutely ridiculous and involves a giant snake on the stage. At the big performance of Blue Snake, Rye dances lead, but injures herself needing to be replaced mid-show,

and everything still goes mostly fine and nobody wins or loses too hard and James Franco shows up with flowers in a burned hand and crosses the stage during the curtain call to see her, which is honestly the most dastardly thing anybody does in this decidedly ungrammatic but not uncompelling film the end. 27 seconds over. I'm fine with that. First of all, Maloha is French for blue. Okay. Snake is snake. It's French for snake. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

second of all really really pissed that you beat me to a company joke i can't believe it i can't believe it chris cannot believe i didn't think to call it gritty company reboot the company that's your joke that's the joke you always make here's to the ladies who dance mm-hmm right here's to the ladies who snake let's talk about my funny valentine in this movie Were you sick of the song by the end of the movie? Yes. Okay. And I like that song. I was a little surprised that I'm, I, it felt like someone else's choice. It feels like Altman would not pick something like my funny Valentine.

Right. That was Nev. Nev was like we have to have it in every third scene. I feel like it was James Franco, frankly. Let's talk about this romance. This really arbitrary studio notes romance. It's my biggest problem with the movie. I don't care about this relationship.

But I don't think. I also don't understand why we need to have a chef. in the movie to have some other art form. All of the ballet stuff is interesting enough. You're making an Altman movie. Why do we need... I guess there's moments of it where I'm like, oh, if this worked better, he could be the Karadine,

who's like hot guy comes in and then maybe we're interested because it's like a sexy relationship, but it's not. It's kind of this non-start. I think even the idea of... if you're going to be a dancer and then having to juggle a personal life or a relationship on top of all of this stuff. And it's like there is an element where they both have these incredibly devoted schedules to their jobs. Yeah. But none of that's really interesting in the context of this movie. It's pretty boilerplate. It's pretty standard issue.

they're also, because again, in keeping with the rest of the movie, there's never a ton of drama to it, right? Like, there's, there are moments where you can tell that, like, this arrangement is maybe, like, stressing the both of them. And, but they don't ever have, like, a big sort of breakup or anything like that. He comes to see her at the show at the end, and they just mostly kind of smile at each other and they're fine. I think one thing I will say at the risk of sort of whatever lionizing a creep like James Franco Altman

films him in a way that is like the gaze there is is working the scene where he's making eggs or something like that right he's because you can't have a chef dating someone in a movie without them making eggs

but like he frames that and he frames you know it very kind of like sexually. And I was just like, okay, like, Altman, like, good, good for you. Good for you, old man. You can, you know, appreciate some male beauty. That's fine. Um, Altman can appreciate some male beauty as a treat. So, um. But the thing is, I don't, it never rises above feeling like a studio note or an avenue to try to get another recognizable actor in this movie. And I just, I don't see much Okay, but like, do you think that Sony classics had the kind of juice to be able to demand that? Well, I don't know.

Well, or is that like a Christine Vash, that wouldn't be like a Christine Vashon thing because she's like, Killer Films is the other big production company here. But you got to get a budget for a movie, even a movie like this, even when you're Robert Altman. I suppose that's true. Yeah. I suppose that is true. I don't know. I mean, you got Malcolm McDowell.

That's not nothing. who's pretty annoying. I mean, he's playing a very annoying character. Yes. To be clear. I think some of it, my hesitation with this character is that it always kind of feels, it's reminding us the same note of how intrinsic he is to this company, like sets the tone and vision,

but also feels somewhat detached from the more granular. items of interest, like the things that we've talked about. Yeah, I don't mind it so much because it feels like... It feels realistic, you know what I mean? He feels... He feels insufferable in a very kind of, like, recognizable way. Yeah, well, and just sort of the way that, like, every time he compliments Nev Campbell, he has to remind her that, like, she was not the first choice for this role.

in a way that he thinks, he seems to think is complimentary. I don't think he's like trying to like manipulate anybody by saying this stuff, but he's just like, you were wonderful. Do you remember when last year, when nobody wanted to cast you in the lead and now look at you? You're the, you know, here you are and all stuff. And it's just like you're so deeply. And it's, you know, he just sort of comes to all of this kind of naturally and the way he sort of, he butters up the choreographer and he, you know, orders a.

the different, you know, people who work in the offices, and he has a white chair that only he can sit in, you know what I mean, in the rehearsal space and all this, like, this fucking guy. He's not as annoying as real French-Canadian... De Rozier? With all respect. With all respect. Got all respect to Robert de Rogers, who, I don't know how we're pronouncing that.

I'm probably pronouncing it really anglefile in a way that's probably... annoying. But welcome to me and growing up watching hockey. So, yes, that guy, it's amazing to me to find out that that's a real choreographer with a real show called Blue Snake because it really does allow the movie to let the audience, allow the audience to laugh at this ridiculous to laugh at this thing and to laugh at him specifically as he's pitching it. They show the whole like Christmas party thing where the dancers are all having these skits that are making fun of Malcolm McDowell and making fun of this choreographer. And they're talking about how like,

I have this, you know, this show and it's called Hungry, hungry hippos. And it's about hippos. And it's just like, it's very funny. That reminded me a little bit of fame.

That whole like Christmas party thing a little bit. This, you know, um, I don't know, the sort of, them all sort of hanging out in these ragged loft spaces with like... Joe.

Yes. I have a vision. Yes. For the tap musical of the century. Yes. Set both in the real world and not in the real world. And we follow none other than Betty Boop. We'll call it Boop!

Stop it. Exclamation point. The musical. that would be an amazing, if the company was like a movie that people remembered and like was on the level of like the big Altman movies, that would have been a great like short form video or something like that. Just pitching boop as as in the style of Altman's the company. Art can be anything. You can make a whole ballet about a snake. you can make a whole

musical about felines you can make a whole movie about Flamen Hot Cheetos you can make a whole album about your cat which is I guess what Mitzky is doing is that what Mitzke is doing? Complimentary I think she's somewhat inspired by her cats for her and Diane Warren

Either way, brackets complimenter. Misky should talk to Diane Warren. They should collab on a song about their cats. You can make a whole documentary about Diane Warren. You can. You really can. There's a moment where Cher, not a moment, multiple moments, where Cher keeps talking about how every time she talks to Diane,

she's like, whatever song she's just finished is the greatest song ever, where she's just like, Cher. And literally, Cher calls her up and she's like, Diane, how's the song you're working on? She's like, I just finished it. And Cher goes, is it the greatest? song ever. And Diane just goes, no, it's actually the greatest song ever. Like, you got to listen to it, whatever. And it's, it's, I don't know. This is going to be our, the company slash Diane Warren

and that song is give yourself some applause. I mean, that's the, that's the essential, you know, it's the essential contradiction and the weird thing about Diane Warren is like, you've, she's made some of the best and worst. She's made some of the best, most undeniable songs ever. And then for the last 10 years. It has just been unrelenting Drek. It's crazy to me. She still should have won the Oscar in 2015. Unlike fellow honorary

Oscar winner, Robert Altman, who makes a lot of really good movies and then Dr. T. and the women. I understand that some people like that movie. I hear you. I don't. I don't. I don't understand. Is that the only really is that the only Altman movie I've seen

that I don't like? I will say I think that's the only Altman movie that I've seen that I don't like. I will say my... No, I don't like the gingerbread man. But that doesn't feel like that's his problem. Well, the gingerbread man is also fucking insane on a casting level at the very least. But yeah, you're right. The gingerbread man I don't care for.

But also, like, even like prediporte, which is like a mess. But like... I remember having lots of positive things insane about that. I enjoyed watching that. Sloppy movie. Popeye, too, was like kind of a disaster. but like I have fond. But thank God we live in a world where we have Popeye.

Sure. You can make a whole ballet about a snake. You can make a whole musical about cats. If you're Robert Altman, you can make a whole movie about three women. Just three women. Any three women? Sure. Why not?

Three women masterpiece. Maybe my favorite Altman. Wait. What if we did a... Most days I think I would say that's my favorite Alma. What if we did a viral challenge that was the three women challenge, but it was people had to make a full length movie about any. three women.

I mean, twist my arm. Or whether it's just like three women, but it's these women. And it's just like the three old Italian ladies who cook shit who you send me videos for. I mean, that's a one sentence plot description that gets me to

watch any movie. It's about three women. Yeah, you only need those two words. Yeah. Nine to five. The first wives club. say more you could I will watch any movie about three women

that's why you don't like sex in the city because you're like get rid of one of them and then we'll talk come to the five and time Jimmy Dean Jimmy Dean is about three women

is it three women oh I think it's more than that because it's Cher it's Kathy it's Karen Black well but Karen Black is sort of the like outsider who returns

right but she's a main character oh yes but so is San Diego Sandy Dennis. Yes. But it's about three women, is what I'm saying. There's other women that are there, but it's about those three, I think.

Four. Four. Sure. Kathy Bates, Sandy Dennis. It's not about Kathy. Kathy's fabulous, but it's not about Kathy. Okay. Yeah, you're right.

All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Wait, how many Altman movies could be titled... Wait, how many Altman movies could be titled The Company? The Player. A Prairie Home Companion. Um...

MASH. They're in company, whatever. They're alpha company or whatever. What are they? Um... You know. You know, he makes movies about three women, or he makes movies about 300 women,

like shortcuts. That is also true. That is also true. We're kind of just like faffing around a little bit. Yeah, but we love Altman. I mean, like, We have to spend, if we're doing an Altman movie, we've got to spend some time even if we're, you know, being silly about the movies that we love. I think Three Women is my favorite Altman.

Well, I've never seen three women. Is it, Nashville? I mean, I can't have a conversation about Altman because I have not seen nearly enough movies to be comprehensive. I feel like Nashville's the one that's always there. But every time I watch Three Women, I'm like, no, it's this. It's this. I've never seen McCabe. I've never seen The Long Goodbye.

I've never seen California Split. I've never seen Thieves like us. I've never seen Brewster McLeod. Oh, Joe, you got to watch, you got to watch McCabe before the snow goes away. Okay. All right. Or maybe you should watch McCabe when there's no snow so that you can really get the effect of the movie. You have to see McCabe.

I think you would love. You think that'll be the one for me, McCabe? McCabe is just fucking cool, man. Okay. All right. I mean, I like Robert or a worm baby. I like Julie Christie. I feel like the long goodbye might be my movie.

That seems, yeah, yeah, that seems possible. You know? Alia Gould's. The thing is, he made like 500 movies. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, but like this particular moment for Altman.

So Gosford Park is this like hugely acclaimed movie. It gets so many Oscar nominations. And it kind of, it revives. Alton for the first time in a decade because early, he sort of, his career is very much this sort of like peaks and valleys kind of thing. And the big comeback actually for Altman was the player in 92, right? Because like the 80s were a real rough run for Altman. And the player is just hugely acclaimed. It's like chock full of, you know, cameoing stars. Um, he gets the Oscar nomination, lone director for, uh, that year, not for 92. Um, and then comes back the next year with

shortcuts, which is a little bit more esoteric, a little bit, you know, obviously shaggier, because it's essentially like a series of, you know, vignettes or whatever, interconnected vignettes, but vignettes. Um, gets the lone director nomination again. And so that was when it was like, okay, like this, you know, master of cinema from the 70s has returned to us and now is at a very, I think, opportune time because this is the beginning. We're like, this is when that like American indie movement is really starting to peak, right? It's a time, like, because the 80s, you know, were not really tonally. aligned with Altman's

whole deal. So it's like, it's not surprising that that's his period where most of the like, deep cut almonds are. And I haven't seen any of these movies, right? Streamers, Secret Honor, fool for love, beyond therapy. Come to, come back to the Five and Dimes. But that's 82. Like, that's

like, Popeye's 80. Come back to the Five and Diamond is 82. But then like starting with streamers in 83 up through Vincent and Theo in 1990. which is his Van Gogh movie. Who plays Van Gogh in that?

Tim Roth. Hell yeah. Did you see the Canadian ice dancing couple skated to Vincent Starry Starry Night and one bronze? No. I've watched none of the Olympics. I have, the only bits of the Olympics

that I've watched are Johnny and Tara on the traitors. Johnny and Tara have been, by the way, incredible doing commentary on the ice skating. But also the United States curling team, I am all in on all iterations of the curlers. I'm so... Johnny and Tara on the Traders. I love them so much.

Everybody's like, they're playing so dumb. They're playing so dumb. And I'm not sure I agree. I think you maybe can't win the game without hitching your post to one person in some way. The thing that people sort of misread about the Traders is that the Traders is so heavily weighted towards the faithful looking stupid, because they really have so little to go on. Even when they're playing with smart strategy, they really do have so little to go on.

So when they make a correct decision, it is at least 50% luck. And when they make a wrong decision, it's just like, what else do you want them to do? And like the name of the game is, they say that the name of the game is getting out traders, but the name of the game is also getting to the end. And I think Johnny especially, Territu,

but like Johnny especially has played a very good, game to that. And they're both kind of like up against it now. But no, I totally agree with you. I think people sort of, or like people being like, oh my God, they're so dumb. And it's like, okay, but like, it's kind of fun, right? It's kind of fun watching them, you know? But I think the base, I think in general, the faithful, the baseline for faithful this season has been a lot higher than in previous seasons in terms of like, in terms of like reading the lay of the land a little bit better. Even sometimes when people are wrong, they're doing it, like, their process is good. Kristen Kish is a good example of that. She hasn't been, like, correct too often, but her process

has been sound. And again, I think Natalie is somewhat of a game changer too because she came in intending to, at this point, like, the traders might be over. This might be over. It might be over. Natalie came in with the intent of playing hard at all times because she's like, I'm not that person who's going to, like, be whatever. And I think it's been one of the more frustrating things of the past few seasons is that all of these people are afraid to like say things. Yes. Because they don't want to, you know, shoot themselves in the foot. And I think she's been a huge factor in people speaking their mind this season. I think that's true. The other thing that I think is a good improvement this season is the show is getting better at throwing things, throwing wrinkles into

especially the competitions that allow people to read into them in terms of like, what would a trader do? The whole thing where, like, people are getting, we're getting on Stephen Colletti's case because Lisa Rina handed him her coins. Like, that's all improved challenge design as far as I'm concerned. Because, like, it gives people another data point right or wrong to make decisions beyond, like, remember, like, Chrisel Stouse was, like, voted out Nikki Bella because, she was just like, I got a weird, I got a weird look on your face one time. It's just like,

we're not doing that this season for the most part. Like, Ron Funcass was like, kind of pilloried for being off the mark with Portia, but like, Porsche literally twice was like that time that I murdered, you know, such and such. Yeah. So it's like, people are going off of actual information this season and not just like bullshit, which is good. Back to Altman. I do want to loop back to the thing that you said because I think this is true, that Altman really rebounds in the public consciousness as 90s independents are taking off. And we don't really talk about him in this context because he was already an established filmmaker. And so much of what was going on in American Independent Cinema was, you know, these upstart filmmakers.

you know, these kind of generational new talents. But it is an environment that allows him to make things like shortcuts and for people to find it interesting. Yeah, totally. And even stuff like Kansas City, which doesn't really amount to much, but it's like it's, it's an interesting movie with a really interesting cast. And it's a cast that sort of shortcuts does this too. Shortcuts especially, actually. Shortcuts really gets into a lot of the actors and performers who were helping at that moment to make Indian indie film, American Indie Film, like a thing, where he's like he's borrowing from a bunch of like the Jarmish people. He's got, you know, Tom Waits is there. But like Julianne Moore was such a big presence. Jennifer Jason Lee, Lily Taylor, particularly. And it. It definitely feels Francis McDormand, of course. Jack Lemon is in that movie, which of course, obviously, Jack Lemon.

People had heard him. But, like, it just, it dovetails very nicely with this moment in indie cinema. And then he, you know, has some misses, obviously, after a Preta Porte. Prediporte is kind of a high-profile bomb, I would say, for him, even though it's like, I don't know what really the expectations were for that, but the reviews were pretty bad, and it was just kind of like, that movie was a little bit of a punchline for a while.

Prediporte, we talked recently about, like, redoing episodes from our earliest days. I'd love to do Prediporte again for the Patreon. You just want to watch Prediporte again. I mean, I could watch Prediporte again anytime I wanted to. I think any filmmaker, except for maybe the approach PTA took to Phantom Thread. Like, you make a world set in fashion. Maybe I should say contemporary fashion.

And, of course, the critics are going to be like, well, all right. This shallow trash. Because even, like, Devil Wears Prada got great reviews for Meryl. But, like, there is still a sense of, especially for male critics, contemporary at the time, being like, well, this lady movie. Yeah, I suppose that that is true. I also just feel like the comedy didn't land with people, and it felt, you know, busy and, you know, whatever. But regardless. Prediporte is, like, tacky.

I would be curious to go rewatch it under the lens of what do I think Robert Altman is pro or negative or passive towards this invariable? fire environment, the fashion environment. Sure. Because I bet that there's maybe a read on the movie that, well, he thinks that this is all ridiculous or, you know, he's off base by thinking it's fabulous or something. Right. So he makes a bunch of movies that, like, whether they are well regarded or poorly regarded, they are just very, like, off of the main radar.

Kansas City, the gingerbread man, Cookie's Fortune, which, like, I remember, like, Julianne Moore was getting a bunch of like Critics Awards for multiple movies in 1999 and I remember that getting lumped in with like an ideal husband and the end of the affair and Magnolia as like the big Julianne Moore year or whatever but that's big that was probably the extent

of it with Cookie's Fortune. That's another movie we could do for this podcast. Dr. T. and the Women, which we are both on the record, is thinking is really bad. So then by the time Gossford Park comes along, Not only is it surprising in terms of how good it is, but it's also a total departure from the kinds of movies he was making. Maybe not necessarily in the way he executes it,

but like an English manner, like murder, mystery kind of a thing. Yeah, I think it's safe to say it's his most accessible movie to a wide audience, you know? because even if he's not, I think, I've gone back and forth on that movie, but I think even if I don't think he's compromising his whole deal and his approach to when he enters any type of world, it's still the type of thing that, like,

you can put your parents in front of. Oh, totally. You can put, you know, it's a costume drama to some people, and then it's an idiosyncratic character comedy to other people, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I think it's probably both, I think, when you really sort of, you know, get into it. I remember I rewatched it a few years ago,

and I remember really still very, very much liking it. But it's a huge, you know, award success. So as we said, the company, unavoidably, even as people were like, I remember people being like, there's no stars in it, and it's, you know, it looks pretty, you know, low-key. And even still, people are like, but it's all. So you got at least, like, hold out hope for it, whatever. And it opened very, very late in the year, obviously, Christmas Day.

And so those releases always have a degree of expectation to them. And ultimately, it was also in a real robust year, I thought, for Sony Classics. Not necessarily in its like Oscar performance, but like, I remember... Is Gosford Park a Sony Classics, or was that USA Films? No, no, no, no, I'm on to the company now, sorry. Oh, the company, yeah. No, yeah, Gossford Park, I'm pretty sure was USA Films.

But, like, in the 2003 of it all for Sony Classics, and this was a real... 2003, for whatever reason, I was so locked in on like every tiny little movie that maybe had like even a little bit of Oscar, you know, possibility. Shout out to our very first May miniseries on the year 2003. But you've listed them here now and like all the real girls, which I remember being a Sundance thing, Laurel Canyon, which is super underrated.

Which one is Levity? Levity has Holly Hunter. A movie that exists only as a title. Levity. Sure. Sure. Holly Hunter, I believe, Billy Bob Thornton. Levity is, if you had a twin language and you were trying to talk about Schitt's Creek,

you would say, Levity would be one of your words. We're going to move right along from this, sir. That's how twin language works, right? They just throw little syllables into words. Anyway. Owning Mahoney, Phillips Seymour Hoffman movie. My Life Without Me, Sir a Polly movie.

For the first 2003 Sony Classics, Oscar nominee, the Triplets of Belleville. Sorry, double Oscar nominee. I'm banging on a tin can. I'm banging on a steel drum. Just like, dig, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Was it you that said something derogatorily about triplets of Belleville? And I immediately came to that movie's defense. Like, how?

It might have been. I would have merely just been in jest, because I generally think I enjoy triplets of Belleville, but, like, that's a, that's a kooky, cookie. kind of movie. By the way, one last tangent, what happened to the Sylvain Show May movie this year? I don't think anybody. I watched it. Did you? Is it good? It's kind of a non-start. The animation's not up to the level of a Sylvain Show-Man. I thought that was going to be one of my best calls early on in the year. I'm like, watch out for this movie. I was making that call too. And it, it never really hit, I think, so many classics is just, they did a qualifying release. What was a call?

a magnificent life, something like that? Yes, a magnificent life. Sure. Monsieur Abrahim was also a 2003. Omar Sharif. Omar Sharif. Oscar play. Yep. Didn't happen.

My favorite Sony classics movie of that year, The Fog of War, Errol Morris is The Fog of War, which was nominated for a documentary feature. What would have won documentary feature in 2000? I thought it won. Okay.

Did it not win? It should have, so I'm glad it did if it did. I can't think of anything else that would have. And then the statement was Michael Cain, right? Yes, that was Michael Cain as like former Nazi, I think, and it was an investigation to him. And it's like, ah, this man is a Nazi. Maybe I'm conflating it with a different movie, but Michael Cain either way. And Tilda Swind.

I think you're right about that. And it was the year after The Quiet American couldn't pull it off with another was the quiet American was Miramax, right? Yes. Because Michael Kane basically ran his own campaign against Harvey Weinstein varying them. That's right, because Harvey was clear the decks for Daniel Day Lewis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so people, I think, generally were mixed positive on the company in terms of reception, right? It had that kind of like low 70s metacritic thing where like people liked it. Nobody was too over the moon about it. I think if you were waiting for like Nev Campbell's Oscar moment, you were probably disappointed. It's interesting that to think about her developing this project because usually when you have circumstances like that where an actor is trying to make a movie happen, it usually. is for a bigger part. She's certainly the lead of the movie.

But it's not a spotlight. It's not a showcase. Right, exactly. And part of me thinks, well, that speaks well, that speaks well of her. You know what I mean? That she would champion this project and take it to Altman knowing that, like, you know, Altman specializes in these sort of more holistic things and not really, you know, shop around this project that is essentially, I mean, again, no shade intended to what I'm about to say,

but Salma Hayek with Frida is a much different thing, where it's just like, why don't we make this movie where I play this incredibly famous and, you know, interesting artist. Imagine saying no to Salma. Well, of course. Like, that's a great idea, but also like, yes, please, let's not just do this. Let's go off. Frida, good movie. Let's do it.

Let's go. Let's make Frida. Yeah, that was what they said to Frida. Also Miramax? Right? Because Salma has like stories to run the whole campaign because Harvey Wachsy didn't care about his own movie. The son of a beach.

Yeah. Yeah, a few people know that Neff Campbell tried to shop around a Frida Callow biopic project several years earlier and nobody was biting. Oh, geez. She grew her own unibrow. It was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. Can we talk about the concept of having to perform a ballet in the middle of a thunderstorm?

That whole sequence is a lot of fun. By far my favorite scene in the whole movie is the Pada dee, My Funny Valentine, in, like, under, like the stage is covered, but everything else is there's leaves blowing around. It's raining. Malcolm McDowell in the audience is like, go, go check and make sure there's no, you know, standing water on the stage. You just see this ripple effect through the audience of everybody breaking out their umbrellas, but staying. But staying. Right. Because the dancing is so committed and so good. I love that scene. I thought that scene was incredible. Made such a good use of, like, real locations. I'm not entirely sure where in Chicago that was. But like, the whole thing was incredibly arresting. I was just like, I was locked in by that point.

I think, you know, while this might seem more of a niche movie, I do think it's a really smart, accessible idea to put at the beginning of the movie, because I think in a different movie, it's the, like, end of Act 2 set back before you have to have a triumph in Act 3 type of thing. It gives the idea of it being a movie about creative process and creative turmoil and just, like, muddling through. the damn work in a way that doesn't feel niche or alienating to the audience because I do think when you get into these movies about creative process and the you know the act of being an artist and doing your work and especially in a non like biopic context yeah yeah you know you're asking a lot of an audience that may be

don't relate to it at all. Right. Right. But I also feel like I like the trust that he puts into ballet as an art form, dance as an art form, right? That, like, he trusts that people will lock into this stuff if they are, so long as they're open to it, right? Can we talk briefly about Marilyn Dodds-Frank as Rye's mother?

That's see. Probably, like, in terms of, like, characters who really, like, pop in this movie, like, she definitely does. Absolutely, absolutely. She sort of... I don't buy her as the mother of Neve Campbell, but I love that. No, but I buy her as a... A particularly kind of state. mom who's not really like a micromanaging stage mom, but there's a Tennessee Williams

quality to her a little bit. There's a little like you can you can easily write your own backstory to her as this warded beauty. She had dreams of a career on the stage or whatever, and she never quite made it. And she's the scene of her constantly trying to get Antonelli's attention backstage to like make sure that he knows that she's the mother. of his lead dancer and to, you know, and she wants to have this longer thing where she, like, you know,

really effusively thanks him and he just does not have the time. And it's all sort of, typically Altman, shown in this, like, reasonably mid-distance shot, right? It's not very, like, tightly close up on her. You don't really, you have to watch her

in a frame with, like, a conversation to the left and to the right of them. Yeah. The altman thing of that is that the drama of the scene is not this that's happening. The drama of the scene is this happening in the full context of the other things that are happening at the same time. Well, and there is also an element of how horrifying if you, like, noticed this at a party from a distance. Because like we've all been there too, right? We're like, we're at a thing and like we sort of notice a social interaction from a distance that, like, is a little revealing.

or is a little, like, embarrassing. Or, like, have you ever seen somebody at, like, a bar or something like that, like, get shot down? Like, actually, like, just, like, from a distance, like, watch somebody, like, try to talk to somebody and get completely, like, iced out. And it's, like, watching a horror movie. It's just, like, it's so... And you don't want to, like, look away, but you're also just like, oh, I don't... Like, this person's probably feeling incredibly embarrassed. And, like, I don't want to, like, look, and...

And, yeah, there it is. it reminded me of that a little bit. So, loved her. I thought she was wonderful. You're right, though, that, like, you don't, you don't really buy her, I guess, as the mother of somebody as... Okay, how do we characterize Rye as a character?

Do we feel like that is an underdeveloped character? Or is there just, like, a degree of coolness to her that is sufficient for what Altman wants to do? I certainly think that there are attempts to make her this full embellished character like sending her to go play pool, which as you mentioned is the coolest thing you can go do. But there's also like the scene where like she's in the bathtub and she's sort of like feeling feelings and whatnot. And it's just like, I don't know if we necessarily are dialed in enough to her to like make all of that worth it.

Again, during those scenes, I'm mostly thinking about her apartment and thinking of it. about all the glass block decor and whatnot? Well, and it's not like her performance is bad. I think it's kind of demonstrably quiet as far as character development goes, but it feels like, you know, we're watching an Altman movie. And even a protagonist in an Altman movie, you know, Altman's always as interested, but most likely more interested in the tapestry than. and, you know, the central figure.

Yeah, I don't think it necessarily detracts from my enjoyment of the movie, but it definitely does give me this feeling of like when you get to the end and it sort of ends on her and Franco, you know, sort of, you know, standing together whenever, I'm just like, okay, like, you know, good for them, I suppose. I think she comes alive most interestingly in that one scene where it's her and the X, and it's after, I think, the windstorm performance, I think. And he goes to, like, congratulate her, but it's very chilly. And then she says the thing about, like, I heard you're going out with whatever the other

girls named Sarah or maybe or something like that. And she starts to be like, I found that out from, like, other people. And that was really hurtful or whatever. And you get the sense that you're on the precipice of like a little bit of an argument or a little bit of like a spat and you don't really get it. But like I liked, it's almost like, you know, conversational edging a little bit where you're just like, oh, I want more. I want her to like really like maybe let him have it.

But I thought that was the most interesting her character ever got beyond the portions of the movie where she's wearing the wig in the bar that is not a lesbian bar, but it's not a lesbian bar. And I was like, what's the story here? again bringing back Maria Bello is there a coyote ugly kind of potential for this for this bar I don't know

I was intrigued Can't Fight the Moonlight on the jukebox We want to know The people want to know Can't Fight the Moonlight by the way Written by Diane Warren This episode is Concentric Circles

There are also multiple scenes Are what a concentric circle is Probably not Never mind I think concentric circles are circles getting smaller and smaller, I think. That's my brain this episode. Yes. Multiple scenes, by the way, of Neff Campbell and James Franco,

mouthing to each other, across a crowded, whatever, at the bar, and also maybe at the party. I can't remember the other one now off the top of my head. But anyway, interesting. Can we talk about Justin? and his dad. Yes. I was surprised. The threatened lawsuit.

The threatened lawsuit. But like the thing where you get to at the end where he's like, because again, this all feels very realistic. This idea of these people's careers and livelihoods, but also like the culmination of like an entire life of being of like weird. co-drama between you and your parents, comes down to this one casting director and whether he decides to put you here or here, you know what I mean? Yeah. And which is what makes these, you know, these kinds of stories naturally compelling. But you have this, you know, ridiculous stage-fodels.

who feels like... Well, but he also gets cut from the company. No, he decides... Or effectively cut from the company. He takes it to mean that he's cut from the company, which is always a possibility. So it's like there's also... Yeah. You know, we've talked about the degradation of the body and the fact that, like, you're doing something that could...

You know, you turn the wrong way and your career is over. But then again, you could also have your career ended by leaving a company in a way. But you also then get these scenes where the one dancer is like, gets into this whole discussion about like, no, we need to come out of this movement doing this because then I go into this movement and I can't execute that the way that you want it. And so it becomes the sort of like cascading thing of like,

is she going to give in and do the move the way they want it or is she ultimately going to like not get cast or this thing? And it's just like it's process. It's process. It's artistic process. And that's always going to be inherently really, really compelling to me, even if like the stakes aren't hugely personal to, you know, the main characters or anything like that. I don't know. I'm trying to go through.

I wrote down the Wiseman thing. Red wine in the fridge, just like your mom. That goes back to Neves, to Rye's mother. And she says, I love your wig. I love your wig. Oh, the Antonelli gets an award, some sort of cultural award from somewhere. And the thing where he says, if your boys want to be dancers, don't give them a hard time. Really interesting line to sort of throw in there because it gives you a window.

It's like the one sympathetic window into that character where, because you could like, you imagine that like this is, you know, that's the path that he had to walk, right? where he became a dancer, despite, I imagine, his father, not wanting him to become one. And he's sort of asking, in the midst of, you know, getting this award by the muckety mucks of, you know, Chicago society or whatever, he's like, hey, if your sons want to be dancers, you know, don't believe it. It's not gay to dance. Yeah, I mean, kind of, yes. I think it's a thing. It's a whole thing. He definitely saw Billy Elliott.

But also, he doesn't note. Well, it's okay to be gay, too, but it's also okay to be gay in dance or not be gay at it. Yeah. Oh, one last thing about the mom. Her crying at how beautiful the snake show is was very funny to me. That would be me.

I would go to a ridiculous snake ballet and be like, it's so moving. You're like, that snake is blue. Yeah. My last two notes, one of which is movie related, one is factoid related. as Neve Campbell is getting ready for Snake Ballet

and she's applying her blue Navi Maloha Snake makeup I screamed at the television because she's applying her makeup with a paintbrush. Yeah. Not a makeup brush, a full paintbrush. I should have screenshot it. Listeners, if you're watching the movie on Griterion Channel, please think of me.

She is applying. her makeup with a paintbrush to her face. That should be the next Trixie Mattel makeup video is getting ready with a paint brush. But does it not make you think that she's applying actual paint to her face? Is this a plot point that I missed somehow? If you did, I did too.

The French Canadian choreographer has forced these people to Sherwin Williams, their literal Sherwin Williams. Well, that's how they were able to get the money to stage the thing, is they got a sponsorship deal with Sherman Williams. So yes. Ask how, ask now.

Ask Aloha Snake. As Malo Snake. And then the other thing that I want to note, Robert Altman, one of only four directors to ever win all the top prizes of all three major European festivals in Cannes in Venice. The first two being Cluso and Antonioni. Do you know who the fourth is? Wait, Inspector Cluso got all three prizes? That's amazing.

How dare you? Do I know who the... Wait, sorry, ask me that question again. I was being a bitch. Who is the fourth director to win the top prize of all the major European festivals, Berlin, Cannes, and Venice? So it's Altman? Inspector Clousseau. Antonio.

And then one other person who is the only living director to have done it. American? No. Okay. Altman's the only director. The only American. Oh, you said only American. Okay.

Um, ooh, is it, is it the Dardens? No. No, because they're, I think, pretty exclusively can. Yeah. It's Pinahy. Oh. Just to rub salt on my own wound of him not getting a director nomination. I know he's nominated this year.

He is nominated this year. I wanted that director nomination. I know. I know. I know. I know. Makes me so angry and so sad. Anyway.

Did you see the, the, video Katie sent of like the people lining up outside the interview she had with him to like. I was like, hell yeah. It's just like 200 mes out there. God, what a nightmare. Two hundred Chris is. No kidding. I think I think that man would find it a nightmare enough to just have one me, but, you know. You know, you know. All right. Anything else in the miscellania that you added? Ebert liked it. Ebert liked it.

Ebert liked it. The man has taste. All right. Would you like to explain the IMDB game to our listeners? Heck yeah. Every week we end our episode with the IMDB game

where we challenge each other with an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front.

After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. All righty. That's the IMDB game. Joe, how are we doing this? Are you giving first? I'll give first. All right. So what was my winding road to get here? Let's see. Oh, right. So I don't want to talk about scream. So in going through Nev Campbell's filmography, I avoided the screen movies and went to the aforementioned the craft. No, the craft. One of my favorite movies. And I didn't actually pick one of the Quartet of Witches, but rather one of their victims.

Christine Taylor. That bald-headed, take your hat off, you bald-headed bitch, is the storyline. Listener, again, ever since Joe has shaved his head, I keep sending the Latrice for Yale clipped it. Take your hat off, you bald. Take your hat off, bitch. You're a balding bitch.

Balding bitch. Take your hat off. Okay, Christine Taylor, I do think the craft is on there, the craft. Craft is correct. No television, right? No television. Gosh, what? She's not in a Sandler.

Is she? She'll have interest in a Sandler. This is going to be really hard. Brady Bunch movie Yes, the Brady Bunch movie Very Brady sequel. No, no Brady sequel, just the Brady Bunch movie. One strike.

Okay. No, but she is a Ben Stiller love interest, I thought. No. Because I thought they met on a movie. I'm just going to say Zoolander. It is Zoolander, correct. Great.

Not Zoolander 2, but I'll say Zoolander 2 to get my years. Not Zoolander 2. Your year is 2004. Okay. 04. We're talking... I'm guessing it's going to be another comedy.

But... So we're talking the year of Mean Girls, the year of Eternal Sunshine, the U.S. year of Dogville. She's not in the Stepford Wives. You could guess Dogville. Christine Taylor in Doggall. Christine Taylor's dog.

Now on the West End. Yeah, she's not in the Stepford Wives, but it's going to be a comedy like the Stefford Wives. She would have been good in the Steffford Wives. Huh? She would have been good in the Steppford Wives. I agree. Cut out Faith Hill.

Put her in the Faith Hill role. There you go. Faith Hill, not interviewed for the Diane Warren documentary, even though she sang the Pearl Harbor song. Would you like some clues? Yeah. You're right that it's a comedy. Is it a bro comedy?

Yeah. Yes. I don't think it's hostile to women, but it's a... I think Talladega Knights is 04. No, it's not... No, that's later. It's not Taledega Nights. Because Amy Adams is in it.

Not Teledega Nights. Old school. No, but you're in a good... You're in a good ballpark. Because it's a Will Ferrell... Another Will Ferrell movie. No, but like... No, because Elf is O'4.

Yes. Not Will Ferrell, but like... Keep exploring the space. Vince Vaughn? Wedding Crashers. No. Think about... Vince Vaughn, though.

Yes. Think about, again... Fred Claus? No. Think about Christine Taylor. Who is Christine Taylor? Ben Stiller's patrol of it? Oh, Dodgeball.

Dodgeball. They met on Dodgeball. I think they met on Zoolander. Zoolander would have been well before that. They might have even known each other before Zoolander. But anyway, yes, Dodgeball, a true underdog story. Dodgeball. They're playing dodgeball.

For you, I went the dance movie route. She's not a whore. She's a dancer. Elizabeth Berkeley. There's one television show. I wonder if you'll guess it. Saved by the Bell. I'm all right.

I'm saved by the Bell. Elizabeth Berkeley, so good on the Saved by the Bell reboot that was on Peacock that I just adored, and I was very sad that they got rid of it. Really funny. Had a whole elaborate showgirls callback on that show that was really incredible.

You really would have loved it. I love this era of her, reclaiming that after people were so awful to her but like we who love show girls love her. We've talked about before the video of her at the Academy Museum screening of show girls and all the gays in the audience just like

whooping it up for her and she's so emotional. It's wonderful. Was it that or was it the the cemetery? Where they do the cemetery. Is that Sinesbia? No, I'm pretty sure it was the Academy Museum. There was another one where she was at the cemetery and like did a whole opening speech

and I think that was the first time she did it. Now she, like, welcome. She's touring the country with showgirls. That first time, it was, like, emotional because it's like, she went through it because people were awful to her. Okay. Is one of them, so saved by the bell and then three movies. Showgirls. Showgirls.

First Wives Club. First Wives Club. All right. Perfect record on the line. Um, I hope it's not like some direct-to-video schlucky thing. It was a theatrical release. Okay, so I'm just going to, like, be as comprehensive as I can. She did, like, show up in a bunch of things for a little while there.

I know she has a small role in Roger Dodger, but I don't know if that movie's big enough to show up on her IMDB, but I'm trying to think if there's anything recent that would have been like a movie cameo that would have been like, ha-ha-ha, Elizabeth Berkeley. I'm just going to say Roger Dodger. Roger Dodger is incorrect. She's very good in Roger Dodger.

Her and Jennifer Beals, right? Roger Dodger would be a fun episode, especially when we need something that, like, listeners have fully forgotten about. Next time Eisenberg's in a thing. We should do Roger Dodger. Okay. So, Lizzie,

Berks, Lizzie Berks, Lizzie Berks. Well, um, I feel like she's in like a horror movie or something. The name of a horror movie? Sure. Uh, 13 ghosts.

13 ghosts is incorrect. You might be thinking of Shannon Elizabeth. I might be thinking of Shannon. Your year is 2001. Oh, okay. 2001. I think she's even billed above the title.

Hold, please. Okay. No, I don't think she is. You know, I'm trying to watch all the 2001 movies this year, so I will inevitably get to this one. Yeah, watch this one. Though I doubt you're going to... No, there are two other Oscar-winning actresses in this movie build above her. Is this...

This is... Go ahead. Is this like a raunchy comedy? No, it is a comedy. by a director of comedies, maybe our most canceled director. Oh, this is Curse of the Jade Scorpion. Curse of the Jade Scorpion.

There we go. All right. Can you name those two other Oscar-winning actresses who are in this movie? Helen Hunt. Correct. And Diane Weist? Charlese. Charlese, right?

Maybe there's a supporting actress, but they're at least billed above. There you go. There you go. All right. All right. Well done. us. Well done us. Well done snakes. Well done ballerinas and ballerinos. That's our episode. If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscurbuzz.com.

You can also follow us on Instagram at This Head Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at Patreon.com slash This Had Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? I am at Ladderboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed. Read spelled R-E-I-D. I am also at Vulture, doing all my various vulturesings. all the time. And you can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Crispy File. That's Fee I.L. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, David and Zolles and Gavin Meavis for technical guidance when we need it and Taylor Cole for our theme

music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So put that paintbrush down off of your face and paint us with five-star reviews. That's all for this week. We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Take that paintbrush off. head, your bald bitch.

Your balding bitch. Your balding bitch. Take your paintbrush off. Bye.