This Had Oscar Buzz - 384 – Jarhead

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

We’re tackling Sam Mendes’ third feature this week, 2005’s war adaptation Jarhead. The film followed Jake Gyllenhaal as Gulf War marine Anthony Swofford trapped in an existential wartime malaise. With a supporting cast that included recent Oscar winner Jamie Foxx and Peter Sarsgaard, expectations were sky high for the film before it received a muted critical … Continue reading "384 – Jarhead"

No, the right house. I didn't get that. I'm from Canada water. Dick Poop. You will train, you will hydrate, and you will maintain the constant state of suspicious alertness. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast. The only podcast that says The Joker is We. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award.

aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my wife, who is definitely cheating on me, Joe Reed. Yeah, Jody's in the next room. Why? Why, Jody? Why do you think?

Because it sounds slightly effeminate? Your wife's cheating on you with somebody back home and we're going to make up a name for, you know, a... Oh, sure. What's our generic name for the... the guy that your wife is cheating on you with, it's Jody, because it sounds like he's half a fag or something like that? Like, what's going on? I love the one thing where it's like, his girlfriend works at a hotel, and she's talking with a male co-worker, and her male co-worker is so thoughtful.

And he never once thinks maybe it's a gay guy, service industry, conversational, thoughtful. Here's what I'll say. He'll probably gay. Put, like, cards on the table and whatever, and granting that, like, Swofford in this movie is both an asshole and a lunatic. Why, if you're the girlfriend, do you include that in the letter at all? This guy, this guy that I work with at work, you know, it's, it's just, he's so easy to talk to. Like, if he's gay, that's on her to say so in the letter. A dude who is easy to talk to in the 90s is definitely good. But that's, but she should say that, in the letter.

She should be like, this gay guy. He'd still probably get jealous about it. He'd still just be like, why are you fucking that gay guy at work? But at least she would have done her due diligence to just be like, okay. It will be on the up and up. You know, for doing an anti-war movie, which we scheduled and then a war broke out, but here we are. Yeah, yeah, folks, this is not, we did not do this as like, hmm, what could we do to like coincide with current events? we're going to do Jarhead. This was

non-intentional. No, and as you might expect, we don't support what time. Yeah, yeah. Disclaimer at the top, this war is fucking psychotic and awful and needs to never have happened. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, but we're also talking about, this is

obviously an anti-war movie. Do you feel like there's movies that are made anymore that are not anti-war? Like, are there pro... I guess they're like... Okay, so Jarhead specifically has a series of direct-to-d-d-d-d-d-dequels. Willing to bet that those, well, are not as... Therefore, a different intention and an audience than Jarhead was supposed to be.

I also think what you just asked, David Ellison's going to take that as a challenge. Because what are we going to be in for, but probably some pro-warmer. Propaganda cinema. Well, but, but there is the train of thought that, like, there is no such thing as an anti-war movie, right? There's that thing that, like, if you, if anything, any movie that shows combat or shows, you know, the military in some kind of way is unavoidably pro-military. And because particularly when we talk about Jarhead, we are talking about a, um, a, a, you know, a philosophical approach to a war movie that is anti- Because it's a movie that you see very little combat, and that's, of course, the point.

Right. The narrative thrust of the movie. But it's anti-war pro-trups, and I feel like that, that has been the dogma for American filmmaking since 9-11, if not before that. You know, Platoon, anything about Vietnam, these are movies that are all anti-war, but pro-troops, and I feel like that is the line that you have to kind of tow, and I think we'll talk about it. I think there's also movies like

American sniper, which might be anti-war, but are like virulently Islamophobic. Well, yes, also that. Yes, you can be anti-war while also not being... Being hateful. Yeah. I mean, one movie that I think is maybe not hateful, but is propaganda pro-war, Is Top Gun Maverick, a movie that that's one of the major problems that I have with that movie? That's almost, to be a pro-war movie, you almost have to do it kind of sideways.

Because there is no actual war in Top Gun Maverick, but that is a pro-militaristic, pro, you know, that is a movie that is, I think you're right. It is, but I think you can't, I think it helps that movie that there is not an actual war that they are fighting in, that the enemy is abstracted, that they are not part of any kind of real-world conflict. They're not part of the, you know, the war in Afghanistan or Iraq or, you know, any other kind of historical conflict. And wait, I had another thought, and it has now completely left my mind. So there we go. Here's something that I want to posit for conversation that I'd actually forgot in the timeline where Jarhead fell in terms of... Jarhead is about Desert Storm. It's not about the war in Iraq.

It's not about war in Afghanistan. But it was somewhat first out of the gate of these movies that were at least perceived in dealing with. with post-9-11 Yeah, this was very clearly A movie made post the declaration of war in Iraq, post the Afghanistan war.

Yeah, very, very intentionally so. And was received as such. And movies that more directly dealt with 9-11 too, because we've talked, maybe not recently, because I feel like we did most of these movies already. Movies like rendition and such, that

you know, dealt with it more explicitly, failed in the Oscar race, kind of failed at the box office. And even though Jarhead is a box office disappointment, it didn't make its budget back, it still made a lot more money. I remember Jarhead being a bigger financial failure than it ultimately was.

It opened to $27 million. Yeah. There is a disconnect from how we view box office then versus now as well. The thing I was, just thinking of though is I really would love a like Ken Burns

Ken Burns is the wrong one because Ken Burns doesn't really do media criticism but like a multi He does actual American history right he does actual American history but like I but some kind of like rigorously researched like five came back you know you know something like that level

rigorously researched multi-part documentary about the ways that that the American film industry responded to 9-11 and the kinds of movies because you have, it's so many different buckets, right? You have movies that addressed the armed conflict indirectly, movies, and I'll say TV too, because Generation Kill was certainly part of this, but movies that direct it, that addressed it directly, movies that addressed it only from a political angle, movies that tried to address actual 9-11,

World Trade Center, United 93, that kind of thing. And then movies that addressed the emotional fallout, but were very much doing it from an obtuse angle, 25th hour, any of those movies where you're like, this is a 9-11 movie. In the Valley of ILA, which did get a Tommy Lee Jones nomination. In the Valley of Ella, yes, War of the Worlds, you know what I mean? Like stuff that like, it was just like this is very clearly a 9-11 movie, even though it's not about 9-11. I feel like I would watch the shit out of something like that that would that spoke to scholars and historians and film critics and like and really, you know, got into what, because I think it's an incredibly fascinating subject where I would love to hear the different perspectives because so many movies.

were made. And to my eye, so few of them really feel like they had any kind of success at all in actually speaking to, except for the ones that were really indirect. Anything that really tried, like War of the Worlds. Like War of the Worlds. Like 25th hour. But anything that really tried to, even, and it goes until today, up to warfare was a movie this year or in the last year. When was Warfare. 2025, yeah. So Warfare was a 2025 movie. Like, already, I mean, already it feels like when did that movie happen.

It ultimately was not able to, it was not successful at its objective. And I don't think any of these movies were. Generally, truly, and there were a lot of that. And the winner is the Hurt Locker. It must have slipped my mind. And nothing ever seemed to hit the way that movies about Vietnam happen were able to be successful. And like, there were movies about Vietnam that were happening in the 70s, right? The Deer Hunter was happening in 1978.

You know what I mean? Yep. It doesn't, you don't need to have the kind of distance from VATTS. Vietnam that like born on the 4th of July had in order to be to be successful. There were so many movies that seemed to coming home, coming home. Apocalypse now, which took forever to come out. Platoon.

Was filmed before some of those movies. Well, and I put a pin in apocalypse now because like I want to come back to that when it come in relation to Jarhead, of course. But I would love to, again, this is just me being like knowing my limitations. as a thinker and a film. I'm not a film critic, but somebody who writes about film. I would love to see that really delved into

because I would be absolutely fascinated. So someone out there... Almost none of those movies have any, like, contemporary footprint. Like, these aren't... The only people discussing these movies are, like, people who do what we do. Yeah. You know, because... Who talks about Jarhead?

these days. Nobody who talks about, certainly who talks about fucking rendition these days, you know. Excuse me, excuse me, who talks about bump, but-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-dendish. Every single time we mention that movie's name, I'm like, I just created post-production work for myself. Like, now I got to go take that. Well, we got it out of our system. We got it out of our system. I would even say to this point of, like, these movies, like, have no lasting impact. you think about Fahrenheit 9-11 which made so much money like created so much controversy

won a fucking palm door erroneous palm door because that's not a good movie what did it just like no one wants to not only not touch that movie but no one wants to touch Michael Moore like as a person who makes movies hold on I'm now I'm looking up the 2004

Cannes Film Festival because I wanted just like go through what was in competition that lost to Fahrenheit 9-11. Well, it would have been Old Boy otherwise because... Oh, is that true? Yeah, because Tarantino, like, saw that movie multiple times. He was the jury president. Right. He, like, saw that movie multiple times during the festival, really lobbied for it with the jury.

Interesting. But considering global sentiment. And what's so interesting... Old Boy as a Palm Door winner would be really... Awesome. Well, yeah, I'm less of an old boy. fanboy than a lot of people. I think Old Boy as a palm door winner is like, that's really interesting.

I don't think it's good enough to be a Palm Door winner, but like, okay. But this is also the can after Dogville plays and like gets kind of raked through the coals through the by the press because it was seen as an anti-American movie at the time. And then a whole year, Dogville wins no prizes that year, by the way. And then a year passes, and Fahrenheit 9-11 is basically given a short off-ramp straight to the palm door because of what the sentiment was at the time. Yeah. This is a really weird can competition. It's a lot of fantastic filmmakers presenting films that they are not remembered for right now.

Wongar-Y is there, but it's with 2046. ASEAS is there, but it's with clean. Like nobody talks about that movie anymore. Palos Sorrentino has... Not that available. The Consequences of Love. Lucretia Martel's The Holy Girl, which I've never seen. Walter Salas is there, but with like the Motorcycle Diaries, which I know like it's like an Oscar and all, but still like, I don't know.

Motorcycle Diaries is fine. I like the motorcycle Diaries. And then Shrek 2 in competition. There's Shrek 2. There's Joel and Ethan Cohen's The Lady Killers, which is like universally. acknowledged as like their worst movie. I feel like the one movie of all of these that I've not seen this movie,

but I feel like people really still kind of talk about in at least like extreme cinephile circles is tropical malady. Is a pizza depong whereas Seth a tropical malady. Great movie. But like that's a, this is a

ghost in the shell two, innocence is in this cam lineup. You know what I mean? It's just like it's an odd, it's life and death of Peter Sellers, which is an HBO movie. Was in competition. It can't. Like, there's, I... Internationally, it was an HBO, though.

Sure, but, like, still, it's... It's, it's... To me, it's an HBO movie. Do you know what I just mean? It's just like... Yes. And I feel like that sort of was the extent of its impact in America. So it's not like I'm standing behind.

Fairnight 9-11 is the Palm choice, but, like, I guess Old Boy would be the pick of these movies. If, you know, you'd get... the real, you know, snootophiles going for tropical malady. But, like, it would make sense that old boy from this group would win. Corey Aid is there. But for, again, a movie that nobody knows, which is not a movie. It's just, like, fully devastating.

Is it? I've never seen it. Yes. It's basically a parentless group of children kind of starving. I think it's the youngest best actor winner ever in Cannes, because one of the kids won it. Oh, that's interesting. Great performance, but, um, yeah, it's one of the more, like, devastating Coriata's. Even, like, uh, uh, in certain regard, uh, there, it's like, assassination of Richard Nixon

is one of the movies there. It's just like, okay, folks. Um, anyway. A whole can line up before the year we're actually even talking about. Well, it sets the stage, Chris. It, uh, no, but you had brought up. Well, you can't talk about these movies without talking about Fahrenheit 9-11. And I think you would almost wonder if the, like, media cycle of Fahrenheit 9-11 helps put audiences off, even though it makes way more money than any of these other movies, but helps put people off from things that are more prestigious like rendition, like Lions for Lambs.

Well, the thing about Jarhead is it's based on a memoir that came out in 2003. So the memoir came out just as like the war is being declared in Iraq, right? To the extent that like we even declared war now. Nowadays, declaring war is such a quaint sentiment that like nobody even thinks about it. But the movie comes out in 2005 right after Bush is reelected. And the period of time from January 05 to, I would say December 06, is when everything changes public opinion-wise, right? Bush sort of, I think Katrina's what, summer 05? and it's just the entire Bush presidency loses, the air comes out of the balloon, right?

And public opinion crashes, and all of America seems to have like immediate buyer's remorse, which is such a typically American thing to do. They hold on to it just long enough to keep John Kerry out of the White House, and then they're like, and now we will. God forbid, we would have some foresight. I say we as if either of us voted for George Bush or Donald Trump. No, no, but it's like, while... If we could just have culturally some foresight beyond the length of our nose, you know,

like if we could just see past a foot in front of us. And yet I think if you then gave people that exact same choice and said, all right, now, now that we're all disillusioned with George W. Bush, in one, in two months, let's say, we're going to hold the election again. In those two months, I think people would be whipped up into back into their ideological corners and just be like, I'm team this. I'm team. I hate liberals. I'm team. I hate, you know, Republicans or whatever. And the election may well have turned it out the same way, but that's my own the weird fantasy psychosis. But my point about Jarhead is, now all of a sudden it's coming out

in this world that is just starting, in this country, that is just starting to, you know, tip the balance towards most people, more people than not, are seeing this war as something ill-advised or not going well or bad in general. And Jarhead, by not being specifically about that war, but by being about a war that can be easily sort of superimposed onto it, both aesthetically and strategically is trying to

and I think in some ways is able to speak to speak to where the country is at a little bit more than if it had been released like a year before that or something like that.

If that makes sense. Well, you can kind of see the lefty perspective I say lefty like I'm not lefty perspective in this movie the malaise the you know

lack of intention the you know the constant questioning of what is the fucking point of this baked into this movie but I think once we get on the other side of the plot description and we actually talk about the movie I don't know if

there's a whole, like, I don't think this movie's very interesting, is what I'll say. Though we'll definitely talk about, like, the bona fides and the assembly, the team behind this movie, because it's like, it's on paper, a can't lose type of crew, especially in the mid-2000s, right? My thoughts about this movie as a movie are kind of all over the map, and I'm eager to talk about it. And then, but it also, it exists as itself, but I think there's also so much. in the meta of this movie being a, it's a Sam Mendez movie, it's a Jake Gyllenhaal movie that comes out the same year as Brokeback Mountain.

It is a, you know, it's a Jamie Fox movie that is following up his Oscar win for Ray. Only his second movie. Do you remember what his first movie was after his Oscar win? Is it the soloist? No, the soloist comes later. Stealth. Oh, gosh. Stealth.

Stealth in which he's not even First Build or the protagonist, Jarhead. Also, not First Build, not the protagonist. Wait. He gets the and credit on the poster. Is First Build? Is First Build and Stealth, Josh Lucas? Sure is.

Motherfucker. Wow. And then what's his movie after Jarhead? Miami Vice, where he's not the protagonist. It's wild. People don't talk about that about Jamie Fox's post-Osker slate of movies.

really interesting. But so there's a lot of meta around this movie that makes Jarhead, you know, it was also an Oscar contender. I mean, that's why we're talking about it on this. So it's like there was a lot of, I think a year ahead of time, people looked at Jarhead and were like, this could be the movie of the year. This could be the movie. Because part of the reason why Brokeback Mountain versus Crash became the narrative that

year was because there were no bigger movies to do it. You know what I mean? Like 2005 was a really, really open, like kind of wide open year. Spielberg comes out with a big, important movie that people kind of didn't really know what to do with. Like Munich gets a Best Picture nomination, but I think people were very, and that movie comes out very, very, very late. That movie, that's, and nobody had seen it. And nobody had seen it. And nobody had seen it. And nobody had seen it. A lot of people didn't really know. They knew it was about the Olympic, you know, the Munich Olympic hostage terrorist event. But I think up until maybe a month before it came out, people were still thinking it was like a blow by blow of that terrorist event, right? Like,

people didn't really know what angle he was taking on Munich. And then when it happened, Munich's a movie that really, you really need to sit with. And people did not have time to sit with it. Because I think, I couldn't tell you if, like, the Globes saw it, like, on their last day of voting or something. But it misses at the Globes, right? I think it just gets a nomination for Spielberg, maybe. Hold on one second. I'll look it up while you keep talking, but I'll look it up. But also, like, you watch Munich now, and it's like, why wasn't Kiran Heinz nominated for this?

Well, like, the critics kind of went behind Matthew Amorique, who already had, like, some momentum from... Yeah, the acting... The acting pushes for Munich were odd that they were just, they were kind of haphazardly considered. Munich does not get nominated for Best Picture. It gets nominated for Best Director, Best Screenplay, and that's it. So, yeah, a lone director nomination at the Golden Globes is rare. It's pretty rare because, like, they have so many more Best Picture. you know, slots to deal with with having two categories.

Yeah, Munich's great. Munich's one of the ones that, you know, it may take some time for people to, like, catch on to. Like, it definitely has vocal fans still, but it feels like one that is a lot of people's Spielberg blind spots. Yes. Or they maybe haven't seen it since they saw it in theaters when people were like, I don't know what to do with this.

Well, and I think there are still people who don't quite know what to do with it. Like, it is one of, Spielberg's more gnarly movies. But like you look at what was sort of being touted from a long lead perspective in the Oscar race. And you're talking about things like, like Munich, but also

things like Peter Jackson's King Kong, which was another movie that like people didn't really know what to make of. There was, people were looking at the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Is this going to be the next? next Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter. People were looking at rent, being like, is this going to be the next Chicago?

And ultimately... The answer to all those questions was no. Was no. Like, this is one of those years where all of a sudden it's just like the big studio stuff that's coming out is ultimately not what Memoirs of a Geisha was this year. Like Memoirs of a Geisha was on everybody's year ahead Oscar predictions. won four Oscars without a best picture nomination. Without a best picture nomination.

The producers is another musical that year that's like, is this going to be the new Chicago? And it wasn't. Do you remember us of a Gatia win four? Or am I misremembering that? I believe it won. I think Memors of a Gatia broke back Mountain and Crash all had the same number of Oscar wins.

Maybe it's three then. I think it's three. Hold on. Did it win more than anything else that year? I think those three were tied with winning the most of everything, let's say. Yes, Brokeback Mountain Crash, Memoirs of Agatia, and King Kong all won three Oscars, and those were, that was the four of them tied for the most. It wasn't the last time a non-best picture nominee won three Oscars.

That's something I don't have time to look up right now, but it's very interesting to think of. The Born Ultimatum. The Born Ultimatum. The Born Ultimatum. But I think this is all symptomatic of a thing where like this is one of kind of a low-key nothing went the way people thought they were going, it was going to. And Jarhead was one of those movies that, you know, from a long lead perspective, people thought this could be the movie of the year.

You know, Oscar winner Sam Mendez, even though like, you know, is coming, Road to Perdition didn't quite live up to the expectations that people had. This is how you get Best Picture nominee Capote though. Yeah.

Because, you know, that's absolute front runner in an in elite acting race, so it helps pull that movie. It's how you get crash, which was like a year old movie by that point from like the previous year's Tiff.

Like, it happens because, like, there's so many empty spaces in the Best Picture Race because all the big stuff that everybody, you know, was predicting in May didn't pan out. Yeah. And I don't want to make that sound like I'm dunking on Capote. But Capote was seen as, you know, a very small movie. And it is like an intimate character drama, even though it's, you know, about real people. These, all right, not to like push the plot description even further down the road. But do you feel like in today's current Oscars climate, do you think a year like this, which we talk about this lot, it was happened in 96, it happened in 2000, it happened in 2005, this kind of thing where all of the planned big studio, buzzy movie. don't work, don't happen, don't shake out.

And then all of a sudden you fill it in with some movies that are more interesting and in a good way, some movies that are more dubious, you know what I mean? But like there's a little bit of a, you know, a scramble to find what are our best picture nominees. Does that exist today, or is there more of a sort of a grim determination to just be like, nope, it's going to be Frankenstein. Nope, it's going to be F1. You know what I mean?

It's like, I guess F1 is more of a, you know, you're reaching into areas where you wouldn't normally. But like, is what I'm saying making sense that is there less of a, is there less of a willingness to give up on stuff that didn't really work? Because it's like, nope, we're not watching. I'm not watching any more movies. I'm just going to like vote for Frankenstein. I mean, it's a, my immediate rebuttal was not if you're Netflix.

But then this is also the year that some of Netflix's top movies they were pushing got zero nominations. That is true. And House of Dynamite. Yep. Yep. You're right. You're right. But I also feel like, you know, once the ball is rolling on a PR perspective, you know, it's, I'm trying to think of something that, like, we're also in the era.

They drop the ball on the campaign because of perception recently. I mean, maybe something like rental family. Maybe. But we are also in the era where a studio like Neon has much more pull because they are pulling from Cannes and Cannes movies are all known quantities in that way. So like that has a big difference. There are fewer movies that we're just like waiting till the end of the year to see what they are and we're just sort of assuming that they're going to be good.

So it's a different climate in general. And when you're in A-24 or a neon And you spend more on a movie Like Marty Supreme than you've ever spent before You're not going You're going to protect you're an investment And if you're not really sure that you could Go the distance in that way

You're not releasing Marty Supreme In a time where people won't be receptive to it Is maybe my thought Yeah Anyway, but all of this is just to say that Like there were a lot of conversations about Jarhead in 2005 that weren't really

even about Jarhead the movie. They were about the Oscar race and Jake and other people. And once you know, the Oscar thing didn't pan out, and once the Jake conversation

pushed to other movies like Brokeback Mountain, within like a couple of years, just Jarhead I don't want to say didn't exist. That's such a, it's a cliche at this point. Oh, it existed. It existed as gifs of Jake Gyllenhaal's body.

Yes. Thank you. Shout out to a friend of the show, Jason Adams. Yeah, for providing a lot. Yeah, if you go on an image search. Yes. A lot of portions of the internet. Yes.

But like, Jarhead is not a movie people talk about nowadays in any context. And it was at the time a major movie. of that year. A lot of actors in it. A lot of name actors in this movie. Can I tell you

the light bulb that lit over my head as I did a quick little search through the cast to find out that the one guy is fucking cheddar bob from 8 Mile? I don't remember

anything from 8 Mile. Oh, okay. It's the guy who's the one who wants to carry around the burnt body with him, the psychopath.

Got it. That guy is from A Mile. Anyway, I thought that was going to land a little bit more with you, but never mind. Before we get into the plot description, we should mention that the other Best Picture nominee is one of those movies that, like, obliquely looks at American culture post 9-11, and that's good night and good luck. Yes, that is true. Very obliquely, but yes. Ultimately, didn't make a ton of money, but was, of course, in the media cycle for, you know, it's politics and because of George Clooney. Being a directing success.

Yes. Well, you look at the 2005 Oscars in general. And it is absolutely like, Good Night and Good Luck is made specifically with an eye towards commenting on current events without being about current events. Munich, kind of too. Although in that Spielberg way where it's like Spielberg's never going to cop to that so much, Spielberg's just going to like, I'm making the movie that I'm, you know, want to make about it. Siriana is a movie, obviously, that has to deal with the thorniness of Middle East politics. The Constant Gardner is a movie that has made very much with, you know, the knowledge of what's going on current events-wise. Even something like a history of violence, you could say, has, you know, that kind of thematic connection to it.

So, like, there's a lot if you go through just, you know, the Oscar lineup of stuff that did, you know, make it through to the Oscars this year, while also having plenty of stuff like, you know, your walk the lines and memoirs of a geisha aforementioned and King Kong that aren't really about that at all. But an example of how maybe Academy tastes have changed is a history of violence. A history of violence would maybe be a Best Picture nominee today, along with a nominee, at least one other acting nomination. Yeah, we've actually, we've done before the let's extrapolate 2005 to a top 10 or else we

could do it again. But it's an interesting year to do that with because there's a lot of, there's a lot of ways that could go. Well, let's keep it moving. Joe, before we get into the plot description, would you like to tell the listeners about our Patreon? Hey, folks,

we have a Patreon. You should be on it. We call it, this had Oscar Buzz, turbulent brilliance. It costs you the low, low price of $5 a month. And for that $5, you get two full bonus episodes every single month. We drop one on the first Friday of the month. We call that an exceptions episode. That is an episode about a movie that we would regularly do on a flagship this had Oscar buzz, except we can't because we are slaves to our own rigorous rules. And we say

that movies cannot be on the said Oscar buzz flagship if they have any Oscar nominations at all. But still, sometimes movies have an Oscar nomination or maybe two, and yet they still follow the general arc of big Oscar expectations and disappointing results. So we're talking about movies there like Tim Burton's Big Fish or House of Gucci or Mary Queen of Scots or Vanilla Sky or The Mirror has two faces. We are talking about very recently. We've done Rob Reiner's When Harry Met Sally. We've done my beloved contact. We've done, we had Katie Rich on to talk about True Lies.

Earlier this month, we did an episode on Nicholas Winding Refn's Drive, starring Ryan Gosling, a very good conversation. Vroom, Vroom, Zoom, Zoom, Drive. We had a very good and fun conversation about that. Then, third Friday of every month, we do an excursion episode, and what is an excursion? It's not really about a specific movie, but it is about some corner of the movie-slash-Oscor landscape that fascinates us, whether it's dipping into a series of. to old award shows like a Golden Globes or an indie spirits or an MTV movie awards,

whether it's dipping into Hollywood Reporter roundtables or EW fall movie previews. Last week, we dropped our post-Oskers recap episode where we got into all the deeply normal things that happened at the 98th Academy Awards. We all remember when that actor and that actress won. crazy, crazy that that happened, or very predictable that that happened. And it's a whole episode for you. We just, we have so much to offer on this head Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance. I really do think it's really good value.

We've also been doing it for a while. So there's like a giant library of old episodes for you to catch up on, which to me, I don't know about you. I think it's worth it. If you want to, if you agree with me, you can sign up for this head Oscar buzz turbulent brilliance on our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Jarhead. Back to you, Chris.

Jarhead. Jarhead. Jarred. Jared. He went to Jarhead. Oh, what a terrible thing to do before you get engaged. He went to Jarhead. He went to Jarhead.

What is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? I keep trying to figure it out. I don't know. If you do, will you let me know? I will. Jarhead. Directed by the one, Sam Mendez, his third feature film, written by William Broils Jr., based on the memoir by Anthony Swofford, starring a very naked, very bald, Jake Jillon Hall, Jimmy Fox.

Who would be into that? Who would be into that? I can't imagine. Take your hat off, bitch. Balding, bitch. Peter Sarisguards. Lucas Black, Brian Garrity, John Krasinski, guess what, six-timers, Dennis Hayesbert, and Chris Cooper. John Krasinski hitting a six-timers before all of these actors.

Showing up with his nerd glasses and jarhead. Bleak. Yeah, it's kind of like twink Krasinski, the only time that's ever happened. Can I also say, first of all, I think Chris Cooper is doing a George W. Bush impersonation in this movie, and you'll never convince me otherwise. Secondly, I'm the great Chris Cooper. Every time Dennis Haysberg shows up, he's doing all-state commercial voice,

and I know that's just his voice. But, like, it's so funny. It genuinely is so funny. Well, Chris Cooper filmed for maybe a day, Dennis Haysberg filmed for maybe two days. Yeah, yeah. But, like, yeah, Hayesburg shows up twice,

once to shit in an outhouse, and wants to get attacked by Peter Sarsgaard and Sarsgaard's big emotional scene. But like every single time he shows up, he just starts talking. And I'm like, I understand that the Allstate commercials are just you talking. But like I genuinely feel like you're just like you're playing it up and you're doing Allstate commercial voice. I do kind of feel like the two seconds that he's in Send Help, Dennis Haysberg, is doing a little something. But then he goes away.

Wait, remind me who is in Send Help? He's like one of the bosses. He doesn't get on the plane in Send Help. He is before they even get on the plane that will crash in Send Help. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. It's wild.

It's like, Dennis, they better have paid you for this. Yeah, I hope so. So, not, it's such a nothing role. Chris Cooper, though, I, I'm with you on doing a George, he's doing a George W. Bush impersonation because it was just like impossible for people in movies. It's with Jamie Fox and Chris Cooper. Jamie Fox gets the and on the poster. Does he?

Okay. He's too big of a role for the and. He is the second, he has the second most screen time. For some reason, I thought, I don't know, I'm not going back to the end credits to watch it again, but I thought it was a with-and situation. Chris Cooper, though. October Sky Reunion. Yes, absolutely. Well, and also, Jake Gyllenhaal and Peter Sarsgaard would reunite, I mean, obviously they're, you know, in-laws.

They're family. But, like, they would also be in rendition together two years later. They would also be a Thanksgiving dinner. Yes. I feel like, okay, what do you think the mood is at the Jake Jillenhall, Jake Jillenhall, Jake Jillen Hall, Peter Sarsgaard, Thanksgiving dinners? Oh, I want to be invited to that dinner because I want to hear Maggie and Peter talk shit about, not even the girlfriends, I bet they talked shit about Jake.

Oh, yeah, to the girlfriends. Okay, you've seen the bride now, haven't you? You see The Bride? No. Oh, okay. I haven't been able to get to the movies this weekend. Listeners, get at me. Jake Jelenhall in The Bride doing a good job, but playing a character that made me feel like,

oh, his older sister is, like, actively making fun of him by casting him as this. She's, like, making fun of him. It's great. It's great. I watched a little bit of Donny Darko fairly recently, including the scene where they're at the dinner table and they're arguing, and she tells him to suck a fuck. And he says, how exactly does one suck a fuck? I'm like, this is just documentary footage, right?

This is just like how Jake and Maggie interact with each other or did back then. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful stuff. Okay, back to you. Jarhead opened second at the box office behind the opening week of Chicken Little. Talk about another movie that nobody talks about. Little. Wow. When is Chicken Little going to be, like, reclaimed by Gen Alpha?

Well, yes, because in the remake, Chicken Little starts dating his AI chatbot, and it's deeply, deeply uncomfortable. Also, in the top five, Saw 2. Saw, a moment in time. A moment in time that is still happening. Like, we are still. Are we still? They're going to redo.

Have they rebooted Saw? Have they rebooted Saw yet? Like two years ago, everybody rewatched the Saw movies. Don't you recall? Yeah. I think those things are just very readily available. The Saw movies are our generations Friday the 13th.

They just are. But the Friday the 13th, at least most of them are fun. You know, the Saw movies are all horrid. I can't speak to this. I've only ever seen one Saw movie all the way through, so I can't speak to this. You get to a certain point in the Friday the 13th,

because there's highs and lows. Like three, it's a low. But then, like, Jason, lives is amazing. And then after that, it's like, ooh, these are bad. Yeah, I think they're generally pretty bad the Friday the 13th movies. I have not seen all of them. The nightmare on Elm Street's much higher batting average than the Friday of the 13th. Just Freddy is a much more entertaining character than Jason. There I said. But Saw is also like way lower than Saw has so much lore. In that way, I think it is a little bit like Friday the 13th because like

there's more lore in Friday the 13th than you think, where it's just like, Jason died and then has to be reanimated. And then like, this one isn't about Jason, but this is about someone else in a hockey match. The saws are like, this one takes place before seven, but after three, but at the same time, five, but also overlapping certain scenes of three. And it's like, shut up. These movies are too stupid for me to work this hard. This movie takes place entirely between scenes, between Acts 2 and 3 of Saul 3. And it's just like, what are we talking about? What's going on?

Yes. After that, the Legend of Zorro, I never saw the Legend of Zorro, but the Mask of Zorro whips ass. Mask is the first one and legend is the second one. That's the thing I can never remember is which one. Legend is the second one. Okay. Mask is the first one. Is Anthony Hopkins in both?

No, because he dies in Mask of Zorro. Okay. I've not seen either. I heard that Zorro was gay, so I refused to see them. I'm a good question. The Blade is gay. He is not gay. The Blade is gay. Got it. What if it's Zorro the gay blade, but it's Zorro, who is homosexual fighting vampires? So he's like Blade, but he's gay. It's Zorro, but you pronounce it with a similence, so it's Soro.

It's the legend of Zorro. Zorro legend The skinny legend of Zorro. Stop it. Stop it. And then in fifth place, Prime. Joe, I have a very serious question for you. Prime is better than Jarhead.

Yes. No. Did we do an episode on Prime? Yeah. Prime is legitimately the longest I spent thinking when I could just go look at our spreadsheet. Had we done an episode on that movie? that in any of these signs that it's come up, that I

truly could not answer. But I guess we did. Prime was episode 107 that came out August 18th, 2019. Wow, pre-COVID. Pre-COVID. Yes.

Also expanding this weekend, first wide weekend of good night and good luck. And we're nah-na-na-na-shop girl. Man, we're playing all the hits. I'll never I'll never Because of that episode

With our wonderful friend Pam Ribbon Love you Pam Um Calling it the Rump Shaker shot Shop Girl and Rump Shaker are always going to be tied in my brain It's just period It's true That's what a sickness

What a sickness that we all have Wow you finally made it here Almost an hour into the episode Yeah Joe are you ready to give a 60 second Yeah it's going to take a another hour because I have absolutely no preparation for this. So, yeah.

All right, then your 60-second plot description for Jarhead starts now. Jake J. Jellon Hall plays Anthony Swofford or Swoff, who signs up for the military in the very, very early 90s. The United States is just getting into the conflict in the Middle East with Iraq invading Kuwait. He ends up getting into a sniper. company, battalion, whatever, group that is headed up by Jamie Fox, who loves being a Marine, and includes Peter Sarsgaard, who is either very wise or kind of a sociopath. Everybody else in this whole little battalion is insane or stupid or both.

They're all obsessed with jerking off and whether their girlfriends back home or cheating on them and when they get to kill somebody for the first time. And Operation Desert Shield sort of moves into Operation Desert Storm. We see things like the American media coming to like check in on them and they have to be on their best behavior. But then they all pretend they're having a big naked orgy and running a train on Lucas Black off in the dunes. And Jelen Hall is slowly kind of losing his mind. And does he want to die? Does he want to kill somebody? is he just going to dance around in a Santa hat? He gets punished for certain things,

and sometimes he's like the star pupil, and sometimes everything is insane. And then he and Peter Sarsgaard gets sent to snipe someone, but before they do, Dennis Haysbert shows up and tells them that their life insurance needs to be with Allstate, and also we're blowing up this thing, so you don't get to have a kill. And Peter Sarsgarde, who is about to be kicked out

of the Marines anyway for crimes he committed back home. It kind of goes crazy. And then they make it back to their camp and the war is over. And what was this all for? They never fired their guns. So they all fire their guns into the air. And it's a testosterone-fueled militaristic Bacchanal by the bonfires. And then they go home and nobody knows what it was for. And Peter Sarsgaard ends up dead in a casket, and Brian Garrity has grown post-war hippie hair, as is required for at least one person in every group of people in the military. And I can't remember exactly what note it ends on, so it just... Amitted at 35 over.

I'm cutting you off. Thanks. Thank you. For the first time, I'm cutting you off because I'm like, nothing happens. I mean, like, it's the point that this movie happens. The point of the movie is nothing happens. happens. But I think once you hit maybe the 45 minute mark, my patience wore out. 45 minute mark. How dare you? Maybe 30 minutes.

45 seconds, friend. Well, I think the, I think the opening movie of the movie. Oh, oh, you mean the movie. I thought you meant of my plot description. I thought you were throwing shade at me. No, no. No, I would never do such a thing. I would never, ever, ever be mean to my friend on Mike. I would never do that. I would never say that. No, of the movie My patience were thin I remembered liking this movie more than I did On this same rewatch I do think the opening of the movie Which has a real like Catch-22 vibe

Is kind of funny You have you know Jake Gyllenhaal giving wise ass Remarks back to the drill sergeant Who is screaming at him Sure There was a there's a sense of, and I mean it's sort of unavoidable because there have been so many movies about boot camp and army training.

And like I feel like we have reached saturation, not saturation point, but like there's just no more daylight in terms of new things we can do with an army boot camp situation. We've seen an officer and a gentleman. We've seen full metal jacket. It's too, you know, too many to count from Tigerland to platoon to every. everything. And I just don't think there's anything new. What was the Elegance Bratton movie recently? Like, I think the inspection. I liked the inspection. I did too, but I just feel like I think that movie again. Yeah, the union's incredible in that movie. Yes. But I think that movie also sort of showed the

limitations of just like, man, we really just have done this to death. And because it's all, because you don't want to show anything that is not based in some kind of fact you can't ever really. There was that Netflix show with Miles Heiser this year. Boots the gay guy in the

whatever. And I think that tried to be as outre as possible in terms of like we're going to do like he's got his like gay you know gayer alter egos

who's going to be like making commentary on the situation. It's tried to be as irreverent as possible with it. And I'm like, yes, but I think this also still kind of just brings you back to there's, because that's also based on a memoir. You know what I mean? All of these things are based in fact because nobody wants to, nobody wants to play around with this to the point that they are misrepresenting, you know, the military or the troops or whatever,

because that's, you know, that's, we'll get tagged with that immediately. So I just feel like, you know, I think at some point we've seen all of this before. We've seen the hazings before. We have seen the, you know, punishments before. We've seen the drill sergeant, you know, barking in people's faces before. We've seen the homophobic slurs. And we've seen the, it's just we've seen it all of it. I kind of feel like, uh,

The bigger problem for Jarhead is we've kind of seen it all with this type of disillusioned military service movie before. Like Catch 22 is the immediate, like, thing you think of, and partly just because of the humor of the opening sequence. But I, and I don't think it really has enough variation to last to feature length. And I think even by today's standards, a lot of people would argue that Mendez has made a better war. movie. I'm not a 1917 fan. I thought about the 1917 of it all, because 1917 is

a movie about obviously, you know, perpetual motion, right? That there is just sort of, that things keep going and going and the war keeps moving, and this one person we're going to follow

for most of this time, but also live or die, we're going to keep, you know, the camera's going to keep moving and the camera's going to keep whatever. And I think that, I think Mendez is just sort of like saying two different things, to the extent that he's, that he's saying anything at all. I'm not, I'm not a Sam Mendez hater by any means. I think I generally fall on the side of being a little bit more of an Apologist. I like his James Bond. I like what he did with James Bond more than I don't like it. I think Skyfall in particular is really, really good. I really like Rote to Perdition. I really like a way we go. But I also, I don't think I'm necessarily being critical of him when I say that he doesn't tend to have a super strong ideological POV in his movies.

It's interesting being that he's a director who came from the theater. I don't really think of him as a dramatist. You know, the most that I think he really kind of has been one is a way we go. And Empire of Light, though much less successfully, I would argue. And, you know, American Beauty maybe. But, like, I think when I think of Mendez, I think of someone who is a stylist more than anything. Because you can say that he's being more of a dramatist. I know that this is like being way reductive terms, but listeners know what I'm saying.

Sure. You could say that he's being more of a dramatist with American Beauty, but I think the thing that set American Beauty apart is the aesthetic of American Beauty. Yes, absolutely. Well, and also, even the stuff that is more narrative in that movie is highly stylized, right? So, like, even that kind of stuff feels like it's not necessarily visuals, but it's very stylistic. I think you're right to point. I know Road to Perdition has its fans, but I do think that, like, across the board that is his most successful movie in terms of not only just the visual aesthetic and the style of it, but the storytelling

mechanisms of that movie. Yeah. And who does the cinematography for this? Is it? It's Deacons. It's Deacons. I want to talk about this because it's not just, you know, Mendez, who's still at this point, you know, Roads Perdition was seen as a disappointment, but it's still won an Oscar. Well, an American Beauty and Road to Perdition being Conrad L. Hall cinematography was seen as doing maybe the heavy lifting for those movies on the visuals. And there is, I mean, I think Deacons does a very good job with this, but there are multiple points in this movie where I'm like, does it feel vulgar that these scenes of the oil fields burning?

Are the most visually impressive parts of the movie? looks so gorgeous. You know what I mean? And like, is that, is there a vulgarity to that? Is there something where we are just not engaging with the meaning of what's going on? Or am I being too literal? Am I being to, does the fact that those scenes look that visually striking? I mean, you could, I'm sure that you could maybe also.

argue intent that it's like it's not that it's beautiful it's that it's hellish you know that it's right right it it i suppose you could look at it different way and just because something's aesthetically successful doesn't necessarily just because something's aesthetically impressive because i do think yeah outside of those sequences and some of the scenes in the barracks and such you know you get very quintessential deacons lighting you know this is the oughts thing of, oh, we're setting something in the desert, let's wash everything out. You know, some of this movie, I think, is very basic to, you know, not necessarily in the framing.

Like, I think, you know, Deacons and Mendez is a pair that, like, they know how to compose a shot, even if the broader, you know, palette of it is. I think if I'm going to have one sort of successful takeaway from Jarhead, though, it's, Like as a story, rather than, I mean, we'll get into the acting and whatever also. But as a narrative, as a story, I think the one thing that Jarhead sort of brings to this general mosaic of movies about the Middle East, the United States' wars in the Middle East, is they very intentionally deal with war, like the war, but also what war does to these guys and it's, and paints it as like a psychosis, right? That there is, and I mean that, a lot of that comes from Swofford from, but like, the Swofford character is clearly, like, going through some kind of mental breakdown during this. the Sarsgaard character.

I remember the first time I watched this. I think I interpreted that character as more of a of a sage than anything that first time. And I thought, you know, and then the ending was this tragedy because this was maybe the one guy in the group who was, who was, you know, smart and wise and had a good perspective on things. And the war, the war broke him by the end. And that's what you see in that scene with. with Haysburg. Watching it now, I'm like, and maybe this is just a Peter Sarsgaard thing, but I'm like, no,

this guy's a sociopath from the brick. He has, like, absolutely no, there's no morality to him at all. There's no, there's nothing inside this guy. Well, the saginess to it is certainly a self-perception. That's how that character sees himself, and that's, like, the version of himself he's trying to project. I mean, he's definitely the most interesting character. I'd love to talk about

SARS-Guard in a minute. But even like the Jamie Fox character who is set up to be he's the hard ass who is eventually going to be revealed that his being a hard ass is him being a good leader and he ultimately

is trying to do what's best and he can ultimately level with the Jelenhall character but that scene that they have that was clipped for the trailer where he's like, I thank God for every day that I get to spend in the core and I do this. I could be, you know, doing anything else with my life, but I do this

because I love this job and Ura and all this sort of stuff. And I'm like, and to me, and I don't think this is a, this is not the intention of this scene because you see Jillon Hall sort of like look at him and Fox is like, right? And he's like, like, yes, Staff Sergeant. And he's looking at him. And he's just like, oh, he can also see that like this guy's also fucking like whatever color pill it is. You know what I mean? He's, you know, he's desert pilled. He's military pill. He's marine pilled, right?

Right. That this guy is also not a reliable source of sanity. That this guy's also been absolutely made deranged by this whole thing. I mean, this is kind of where I think, Jarhead's head. Sure. Jars head? Jars head.

Is in the right place. The plural of Jarhead is Jarshead. So, yes, this group of Jarshead. The movie has its, you know, intention, its positive intentions, and that I do think it's trying to examine the propaganda machine during wartime and what the messaging is sent to people about who you can be what you can serve, what, you know, what meaning you can have. And it's really just

setting up all of these people who, you know, offer up their literal lives and bodies. It's setting them up for degradation. You know, it's... Yes. For them to be rained on in oil, so they all look like unrecognizable to each other. And like, having fights over charred, you know, corpses and and completely the way that the characters in this movie completely dehumanize the enemy in, you know, all sorts of ways, and then become so dehumanized themselves. Like that is, it is saying something. I guess it's that you have an absolute responsibility to these people who are, you know, willing to do this, whether or not they really have much of a choice, you know, or options. You know, you have a responsibility.

to not dehumanize, deprogram them as a system. And, you know, I think this movie is trying to be clear-eyed about that. And, you know. One thing that it's a small detail, and again, maybe I'm reading into it more than there's intentionality, but like, who knows? Lucas Black, towards the beginning of the movie, in one scene where they're all in a transport together or whatever. says something about how, well, it was the United States who armed Iraq in the first place,

because, of course, the United States backed Iraq in their war with Iran before, you know. So they were the ones who armed Hussein in the first place, and now, you know, we're fighting him. And Sarsgaard cuts that right off and is like, no politics, right? And like, or fuck politics or whatever he says. And it's, you end up seeing what Lucas Black ends up with in the like flash forward at the end. And he's some like cowboy hat wearing like oil millionaire or whatever with like charts and and, you know, bar graphs and whatever at a board meeting. And it's just like, oh, right. Like we are, you know, we take the politics out of all of this.

We learn that it's just complete like, nile. and this is where we end up with, right? What is this military experience training these young men for? While it's trading them for the casket, in the case of Sarskart, it's training them to be seemingly a burnout, like Brian Garrity, or it's training them to be like a complete, soulless, corporate, you know, oil guy, like Lucas Blas. who, any of those people could have, like, had a spark of thoughtfulness, a curiosity, kindness, whatever, and they all end up hollowed out in one way or another.

And Jillenhall, as Swofford, where I guess we're supposed to take his narration as proof that he's sort of become philosophical about all of this, or the narrative. was a problem for me because it kept really, really aping fight club to me. Like, I kept hearing... It felt like it didn't belong there. It felt like a studio note. It felt like a test screening, redirect. What it felt like to me is that Mendez and William Broils, the screenwriter, could not find their way into a POV on this movie. So they just decided to lean on Swofford and lean on the screenwriter. Swofford's words, and that's sort of what we ended up with. I definitely did not like this movie

as much as I remember liking this movie back in the day. But the more that I talk about it, the more that I do feel like it does have something to say on the level of the stuff that I just talked about, the sort of the grand psychosis of, you know, the historic, you know, the soldiers. But ultimately, I think the movie, more often than it should, leans back on these cliches of, man, war, like, fucked up, right? You know what I mean? It's so in love with, the movie, to me, is so in love with these little things that you know that this was some studio guy, read the memoir and was like, welcome to the suck. fucking love it.

Put it on a poster. You know what I mean? The whole like, this is my rifle. There is no rifle. Many are like this, but this one is mine, the whole thing.

Of like, just like in love with these little, procedural sort of cult-like kind of fetishes, right? There's, it's mantras. It's, it's indoctrination, right?

It is, I mean, not to go like completely by a studio. If a studio head doesn't see how it could appeal to both sides of the aisle. Well, and an appeal to young men

specifically, who are constantly being sought after for big tent movies like this. I am ultimately with you and that I think that this is a movie that maybe has some of its intentions in the right place, but ultimately misses the mark

in a lot of ways. I mean, like, the bona fides of it, too. Like, just the assemblage of people in front of and behind the screen too, or a huge reason why we thought a year in advance that this would be, like, the movie. I included some of the other, like,

stats and stuff in our outline, but it's not just Deacons, who's the cinematographer on this movie. Thomas Newman does the score, reuniting him again with... With Mendez. Yeah. And then you have Walter Merch, who's a legend, who edited the movie,

but he has, like, editing nominations, sound nominations as well. He was part, of the team for Apocalypse now as well. And the English patient, yep, yep, yep, yep. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Thomas Newman, still no Oscar. I'm sure we've had this conversation before.

But like, what is your... Not in a while. That's kind of why I wanted to bring it up. What is your, if I could give Thomas Newman one Oscar? What would it be for? We've had this conversation before, and it's always something that I forget, but let me... From his actual nominations, it might be different than the end. actual. No, from his nominations. From his nominations, Wally. I mean...

Okay, interesting. Plain and simple, Wally. So his nominations, we should... Hold on. Let me... His Academy Award nominations are for Deep Breath, the Shawshank Redemption, the 1994 Little Women, Unstrung Heroes, American Beauty, Rote to Perdition, Finding Nemo, Lemony Snickett's a series of unfortunate events. The Good German, Wally, the song nomination, also. from Wally. Skyfall, Saving Mr. Banks, Bridge of Spies, Passengers, and 1917. Of all of those,

to me, and I am the less of a Wally fan in general, Rota Perdition is my number one. That's amazing. It's so beautiful. And it's also, that comes out in 2002, and then Angels in America comes out on TV in 2003, and those two scores sort of like marry each other, very very, very well. I love it. Do yourself a favor and just run the whole Road to Perdition score the whole way through and just bliss out. It's so good. The Shawshank score is obviously one of his more iconic things he's ever done.

Particularly that one sort of movement in the Shawshank score that is used for every montage. All like all montages. It is like the best montage. piece of music. I think the Finding Nemo score is really beautiful. Obviously, the American Beauty score was really influential, really iconic. Of his later nominations, I don't, I think, I don't want to be like, but I also feel like even like since Wally, since Skyfall, let's say, because Skyfall, he gets the nomination for a score that really kind of it interpolates the James Bond sort of pre-existing music,

but in a original way and sort of, you know, moves around it. But I think was a little bit of a controversial nomination because of that, because a lot of people were like, he's just doing James Bond. I think while I wouldn't say like diminishing returns since then, I don't think he's produced a score, that has been on the level of his greatest stuff. Yeah. We've done a Mito Black episode.

That's a good score. Of his, like, more minor key stuff, that's, you know, not as big and thematic as, like, something like American Beauty or Shawshank Redemption, where people can remember the melodies. I would pinpoint his, among some of my favorites of his work,

his work in the early Todd Field movies, both his In the Bedroom and Little Children's scores, are tremendous and do so much for those movies. I agree. Yep. Very good. I love the White Ole underscore, although, as our friend Bobby Finger mentioned to me, he's like, it really is just like the American Beauty score with like a little bit of a refurbishment to it. And it's just like, you're not as bad as the pay it forward score, which is literally B-sides from those

recording. Like, you can't convince me that they were. Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong. So, Jake Gyllenhaal in this movie. I texted you last night. Same year as Brokeback Mountain and, lest we forget, previous this had Oscar Buzz episode proof. Proof. Yep, yep. I texted you at one point last night. There were moments when I'm watching this movie where I'm literally just like growling at the screen. At just the certain, the way, there are certain shots where it's just like, he's just fucking burly and shirtless. I'm like, I am as susceptible as anybody to the aesthetic brainwashing of growing up in modern day America.

The shot of him shirtless with the like V crotch muscles showing a little bit with the like the desert fatigue pants. the boots and I'm just like I'm fuck like done for done for done for um he became it was like

it was kind of zero to 60 like sex symbol this year right like he had been like yeah the cute he was awkward he was cute he was like he had like you know an adorable face people were like not not into him before this

well the thing that I think started it that moved him away from like skinny weirdo after he's playing like Donnie Darko, the good girl, etc. Moonlight Mile. It's the EW day after tomorrow shoot where he's on the cover and it's supposed to be like, soaked. And he's soaked. It's a rainstorm.

He's in a disaster movie about weather. So we got to do a wet thing. And it's like, he's got a hairy chest. He's got the eyeliner. This is true. And then it morphs into the jarhead muscle. I think there needs to be a better historical archive so that we can track when photo shoots have changed the perception of American actors. Because Chris Evans, obviously, same.

You're right that like Jake Gyllenhaal, his transition from the, lovely and amazing the good girl Donnie Darko bubble boy to Brugback Mountain Jarhead Prince of Persia style, Jake.

Not Prince of Persia. Well, nobody wants to talk about Prince of Persia. But like that, that type of figure happens via photo shoots. You're absolutely correct to bring that up. And this happens sometime.

We all have seen the Noah Jup photo shoot that happened this year. that I'm just like, excuse me, excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. I think you heard me. My sweet little darling boy now is a man and also a slut.

Like what's going on? What's happening here? What's going on? I don't know. I don't know if I like it. I don't know if I like it. I'm just saying. You don't know his business.

How dare you call him a... Those photos... Those photos are promiscuous, is all I'm saying. But yes. So, what do you think of Jillyn Hall in this movie? Not great. Not great. He's not really working in a mode that I think he's best at, which...

And I think sometimes he's been leading man and been very good. But I think... Jake Gyllenhaal at the end of the day is a character actor and this doesn't really give him much to play off of. So he initially presents as again we've talked about how

this like this is a character type that has recurred in a lot of things. He's the he's the wise ass in the platoon. He's the rebel, right? He's the one who sort of like sees through everything. He's Colin Farrell

Tigerland. He's, you know, whatever. But also, so much of what, how that presents is within this voiceover rather than any kind of like outward action. Outwardly, he seems to be pretty much down with the program and one of the boys. I think he's less of a iconoclast within this group, if like to an outsider. He's only an iconoclast in his like inner monologue. And so he just seems to be he's, you know, the ways in which he kind of acts out are less, like he acts out by like wanting to watch the video of the guy's wife, you know, cheating on him or whatever. And like, it's almost like he's, you know, the ways in which he goes against the grain. are less like anti-authority as somebody like a Colin Farrell in Tigerland and more of a

I'm just becoming more intransigent, more of a dick, more of a sort of a crazy person, and then it all leads up to whatever, like the Christmas Eve Bacchanal inside. I know I've said Bacchanal twice. You're saying it all leads up to the Santa Hat. Well, it leads up to the Santa Hat in many ways, and one of which is, like the narrative of Jake Gillen Hall being hot as fuck leads up to the Santa Hat scene where he's not only running around with a Santa Hat over his dick and his ass showing but also like is like swinging them hips around in a way where you're just like

okay and but like the aftermath of that is that he leaves the Brian Garrity character in charge he fucks up the the truck full of flares goes everywhere and they're all in fucking trouble and Jillen Hall ends up paying a punishment for it. And then he, in turn, has this scene with Garrity where he's like, why don't I just shoot you and kill you right now? And it looks for a second like he's going to, he really is going to kill him. He certainly, Garrity character certainly feels that way. And then he turns it back around and is like, shoot me, shoot me. And he's, and he's like having this psychotic break, right? And that's the scene where I'm like, I do think he's delivering in that scene.

Do you agree? Yeah, I just think in the... This is just never a performance I'm going to think about when I think about Jake Gyllenhaal as an actor. I agree with you. I don't think he's bad. It's just, I don't think that it's really doing... The role does him really any favors that are non-physical.

Ultimately, this movie gets sort of swallowed up in the narrative of his career because it happens only a few months before Brokeback Mountain. And Brokeback Mountain kind of redefines his career. He becomes one of the more, even though Heath Ledger is seen as the better actor of the two of them in the movie. And that sort of happens in real time. The presence of this movie is probably also why Jillen Hall is run in supporting for this movie, because Brokeback Mountain's leaving him room

Yes Leaving him room To campaign for a lead For Jarhead Had that Which ultimately doesn't go anywhere Which ultimately doesn't go anywhere I never think about that

Because of course the narrative is always Tee-he he heathes in lead Because he's the top And Jake Dillon Hall is in supporting Because he's the bottom Ha ha ha ha ha ha But I do feel like

Brokeback Mountain levels Jillen Hall up into a realm of serious actor that he wasn't, even when he was doing like, like well-regarded indie shit, like The Good Girl and Lovely and Amazing and that kind of stuff. And so he then becomes somebody who, within a few years,

is, well, his Oscar, his trajectory with the Oscars is interesting. Because he then does a series. His only nomination is for Brokeback Mountain, too, which should be said. Right.

Right. Right. And it's like, Zodiac rules, but people don't appreciate it enough. And also, he's in a weird tangle with R.D.J. and Ruffalo for, like, who stands out in that movie. If you had to give one acting nomination to Zodiac, could you give it to? And don't say John Carroll Lynch, because that's cheating. No, no, the answer is Ruffalo. Ruffalo. Yeah, I think so. Although I think Donnie Jr. is great in that movie. But I think it is Ruffalo. I mean, so many people are so good in that movie. Rendition flops, brothers, flops, Prince of Bread. Let it not be said that Mommy and Uncle Tommy have sex all the time. Mommy and Uncle Tommy do have sex all the time. Love and Other Drugs is a Golden Globe nominee, but, like, is...

He's really good in it. He's really good in it, but, like, that does not become a, like, beloved rom-com the way that, you know, maybe people wanted. Source code is disappointing. I'm very careful when I say that because Duncan Jones... wrote and uprated me for calling that movie a flop. End of watch, though,

2012. So 2012, we're already seven years past Brokeback Mountain before we get another movie that people are like, oh, actually, this movie's good, Jake is really good in it. And like, nothing comes of it on an Oscar, on an Oscar level. But I feel like end of watch is

when people are like, oh, you should watch this. Jake Gyllenhaal's really good this, this movie's really good. The one, like, David Ayer movie that, like, I think people can feel good about recommending. And then

2013, he does the two Denis Villeneuve movies. He does prisoners and enemy. Prisoners. I know people don't like prisoners. I'm pro-prisoners. I do think that that is a movie where a lot of actors are doing big stuff and Jake kind of walks away with it doing an understated performance.

I think that's one of his best performance. That's the secret. It's the secret to unlocking prisoners. And like I, in general, really like prisoners. I even like, you're right that like Melissa Leo's doing the most. Paul Dano's doing the most. Hugh Jackman's doing the most. And I kind of like all of them in it.

But it's Jalenhall, who is playing this cop who is also like, not quite quirky, but like he's odd, right? He has this like affect to him, and he's like, you know, has these odd little obsessions or whatever. But I think you're right that he does walk away with that movie. And then Enemy is a much more sort of esoteric movie. And I ultimately think Prisoners is just like a more fun watch. Enemy has its moments. The spider.

The fucking spider. And also just like, not only the thing at the end, but like, there's that just like random cutaway to the skyline of the Toronto with like the giant spider, like, walking through. I mean, and then like, I ultimately, I'm not going to blame that movie on Sarah Gaden, but like, I have never, ever, ever come around to Sarah. again. And so any movie that she's in, I'm always like a little distant from. Great poster, though. That's the one where it's, it's his head. And then the top half of his head is that skyline of the shot that I'm talking about. Oh, I was thinking of the Slender Man-ish. Oh, no. Check out the one that's on the Wikipedia.

The Wikipedia page is really good. I kind of want that poster. Anyway, then 2014 nightcrawler, which is like the one where, and you and I both like that movie less than most people do, I think, right? I like it fine. I don't think it's amazing the way that some people think is. That's where I'm at as well. But a lot of people were like, it's so good. He's so good. He was like on the cusp of another nomination for Best Actor for that thing. Ultimately doesn't happen. But like, that's a movie that, again, has people primed for him as an actor. So, like, this is now a really good...

He's at a really good moment. And then he just picks a really bad series of movies. Like, accidental love, we can't count because that movie was in the can for a while, the David O. Russell movie that had been previously known as nailed and, like, was just, like,

sitting on a shelf forever and ultimately gets released. Effectively disowned by everyone in all. I was going to say disowned by everybody, but comes out. And Everest, I'm not going to count, against him either because it's a small role. He's actually pretty good in it. And, I mean, go listen to our episode on Everest with Katie Rich. But, like, Southpaw is an embarrassing

cliche of a boxing movie. And, like, I understand that Antoine Fouca has made movies that people like. Antoine Fouca has made movies that I like. Like, I think, like, Training Day is a really, really good movie. I think, you know, whatever, the Magnificent Seven is a very watchable movie. But like, Antoine Fukuwa has made some fucking embarrassing movies. And South Paws, one of them. Including some that are about to come out. Well, this is what I'm saying. All of a sudden, it's just like, we're staring down the barrel of this Michael Jackson movie abomination. And it's just like, Antoine Fuku's bad. I'm just going to like, just like, Antoine Fuku is not a force for good anymore.

in the film community. I'm just going to say it. But like, Southpaw, bad. Demolition, the Jean-Marc-Fa-Mové movie. That, nocturnal animals, objectionable and awful and bad.

Life, which I've never seen, but like... Life seems like something I would like. Me too. You know it's bad. But it, like, it is a big, like a big, uh,

high concept sci-fi movie that, like, is a South Buy premiere and ultimately, like, lands with, how did that make $100 million worldwide? Like, genuinely feels like nobody I know has seen life. Or like nobody I know has talked about seeing that movie. It's just, it's odd. Stronger, which is the David Gordon Green movie about the guy who loses his legs in the Boston Marathon bombing.

This is the point, though, that I think. Jake pivots back to being weird character actor because it's also the year of Okcha Okja which Uh yep High praise If you don't like Jake Jill and Hon

Okja Go away Well and so then we start Getting like right now we're in the The territory of Weird Jake Where it's like Okja Sisters Brothers Velvet Buzzsaw His particular role in Spider Man is like

Definitely Weird Jake Um I don't think I would put wildlife there. I just think wildlife is just like in general, like a really good performance and a really good movie. And now we pivot to Agro Jake. Right. Right. Even like the guilty, which is the

other, the Antoine Fuqua movie where he's... Bad. So bad. It's the... This was a movie that was not... Was it made in lockdown? It had to have been. Because it essentially is just like him in a room. Yeah. Right? Yes. He's the 9-11 call center guy.

Ambu Los Angeles Sands Ambu L.A. which a lot of people, a lot of the Michael Bayheads really loved, and I watched that movie. And it had been so long since I had seen a Michael Bay movie that I'm like, what the fuck is this? Would they stop with these like droving drone shots or whatever? And then I'm just like, oh, right, this is what it's like to watch a Michael Bay movie

where it like has 18,000 cuts in like the span of 30 seconds. And 17,996 of those cuts are B-roll. I think Jake is really good in that movie, but it is to me a trying experience watching that movie. I find it absolutely just like aggravating. And then Guy Ritchie's the Covenant, which no thank you. Roadhouse, which is... No, thank you. And Doug Lyman, who was the director I like, but like...

What does he have coming up? He's got another guy Ritchie movie coming up with him and Henry Cavill called In The Grey. The Shaman, which just got pushed to next year. Did it? That's too bad. I'm really... We apparently don't deserve big things. To the Shaman. Remain. Shomelon in Cape Cod.

Okay. Shammalan Jake Dillon Hall in Cape Cod. Yes. please. There's a Roadhouse 2 that is currently filming apparently. No, thank you. And then he's in the bride, currently. He's like barely in the bride.

Yeah. But I was happy to see him in that mode. His third Sarsgard collab. He plays a movie star who's like a musical star. Like, supposed to be some type of like Fred Astaire, which I always feel like whenever Jake Jollenhall is singing, he's playing at singing and not actually singing. Yes. Did you ever

see, I know I've asked you this a hundred times and so this will be 101. Did you ever watch John Mullaney and the Sack Lodge Bunch Bunch. No. You understand though that like Jake is in that and he sings. Yes. Okay. I've seen that I've seen I've seen his screen caps. I got it. Okay.

I think I got it. It's not my favorite part of that thing. I think in general I think he would be very charmed by John Mullaney in the Sack Lunge Bunch. It's so charming. And it's just kids. It's just like these kids being great and awesome. I mean I can't pretend that I would be negative on it because it's like Okhja Jillen Hall.

Plus, I'm highly pro on that. It's, yes. He's the, it's the most sort of psychotic part of that. It comes at the very end. I find it charming. But also Richard Kind has an incredible, incredible segment of Sacklunchbunch. I'm just going to say, anyway, back to your regularly scheduled life where I don't push this upon you.

Go see the bride if it hasn't been scrubbed from the earth. Yes. This is our 10th Jake Jillenhall film. Ten timers. Our landmark 10th Jake Jillen Hall episode. This is a guy who we've been on heavily early. He was one of our very earliest six-timers. He must have been because we did five Jillen Hall episodes within our first 100.

So we were on it. But it makes sense because, he has so many of these movies that were really like, this is where it's going to happen, and it just hasn't. And he also tended to be for a while there, especially, somebody who would, like, be in these big projects with lots of big stars or whatever. So recently, the format that I've taken for 10 timers is, I give you the list of 10 movies, you pick out the Oscar winners from those movies, and then

we have a next step. And so I think we'll start there. I'm going to give you the list of 10. I'm going to have you jot them down so you have them in front of you to look or just like reference. So we're talking about brothers, the 2009 Jim Sheridan movie where mommy and Uncle Tommy are having sex all the time. Love and Other Drugs aforementioned. Another movie where Jake Gyllenhaal's naked body plays a significant role. Rendition, Bump-B-Bum-Bump-Bump, Zodiac, one of the best movies of all time.

Proof, which is about to be revived on Broadway with Iowa Debris and someone else whose name is escaping. Don Cheadle. Thank you. Moonlight Mile, underrated movie, Brad Silverling. October Sky, where he plays The Picture of American Innocence. Everest where he plays the picture of American

overconfidence Yeah the sister's brothers where he plays No The The The

What were we saying The picture of American Britishness Yes Also A closet Homosexual Homosexuality

And then Jarhead Okay So 10 movies 16 Oscar-winning actors co-star in these movies. Can you name them? Name them. Insert theme music here while I write them down. Okay.

Jarhead has Chris Cooper and Jamie Fox. Love and Other Drugs has Anne Hathaway. Sisters Brothers has Joaquin Phoenix. I'm just going to hopscotch over Everest. Brothers has Natalie Portman. Yep. Rendition has Reese Witherspoon. Yep.

Merrill Streep. Yep. I think someone else. Zodiac has Robert Downey Jr. Yep. Probably someone else. Proof has Gwyneth and Anthony Hopkins. Yep.

Moonlight Mile has Susan and Dustin Hoffman, October Skins. has Laura Dern and Chris Cooper. So you are currently missing three people. Okay. Three supporting actors from those movies. All supporting performances. Yes.

Could be Everest because the cast is huge. It could be rendition. I feel like there's someone else significant in rendition. I can tell you what movies you're missing from if you want. Okay, yes, please. You're missing two from, rendition in one from Moonlight Mile. Oh.

God, I can't believe I forgot. Ellen Pompeo's Oscar. And that I can remember that Ellen Pompeo is in that movie and not another Oscar winner. It's an actress, right? It is. There's an older,

not older, but there is a Oscar-winning actress who is... Moonlight Mile is not just a movie about like a family coming to terms with things. but like there is a specific plot through line through that movie. What is it?

Well, there's a love story with Jake and Ellen Pompeo. There is, but like, what is the, like... There's a murder. Right, and what is being done about that murder? It's in trial. Right. Oh, there's a lawyer.

Yes. It's the lawyer like Laura Dern as well. It's not Laura Dern. It's a different actress. Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. There we go. You're missing two actors from rendition, both of whom won supporting actor Oscars.

Alan Arkin? Yes. And who else is a type that would be in that movie? Who's a supporting actor winner who could be in a movie and you wouldn't remember it? God. Who's had that kind of career? Sam Rockwell. No.

Who had the kind of career who they were in like 8 billion movies in. in, like, tiny rolls. Morgan Freeman, but Morgan Freeman's not in that movie. Right. One in the teens. The 20 teens. He won in the teens. Okay.

I know I'm going to get there. I know I'm going to get there. J.K. Simmons. There you go. J.K. Simmons. All right. So, have you written down all of those people? No, but I will now.

Okay. Natalie Portman. Anne Hathaway. Reese Witherspoon. Merrill Streep. Alan Arkin J.K. Simmons. Robert Downey Jr. Gwyneth Paltrow.

Anthony Hopkins. Dustin Hoffman. Susan Sarandon. Holly Hunter. Laura Dern. Chris Cooper. Joaquin Phoenix. And Jamie Fox.

All right. Here's where I get psychotic. Let me know when you've written them now. It's 16, right? Yes. Okay, I have them all. Okay. Of those 16 winners, you're going to get mad.

at me. Give me a second. Of those 16 winners, three are Aries, one is a Gemini, two are fanser. One is a Leo, two are Libras, two are Scorpios, one is Sagittarius, two are Capricorns, one is Aquarius, and one is Pisces. Go through and assign and then give me some kind of justification for why you're saying it. Who are the three Aries in this group and tell me why? Susan

Gwyneth. and Laura Dern. No, Laura Dern, I think I know, is a Taurus. Holly Hunter, fine. All right, so you're saying Susan, Gwyneth, Holly. Who's the Gemini? Natalie Portman. All right, Portman.

Who are the two cancers? Merrill is, but she's a cusp, so I don't know if you're counting her as the Gemini, but I'm going to say that she's the cancer. Along with Alan Arkin. Fine. Who is the, it's crazy that there's only one Leo in this group because, like, in my experience, so many actors are Leo's. Isn't Risa Leo?

I'm not telling you. Well, I'm going to guess her. Okay. Two Libras. J.K. Simmons and Joaquin Phoenix. Okay, who are the two Scorpios? I can't even remember who I've said and who I haven't said. That's fine. You can overlap if you want.

Okay, fine. Eventually I'll get right answers. Jamie Fox and Laura Duren. Okay. Who's the Sagittarius? Robert Downey Jr. Okay. Who are the two Capricorns? Chris Cooper and Anne Hathaway. All right.

And who's the Aquarius? Anthony Hopkins. And Pisces. Who do I think I haven't said? What's funny about this quiz is I absolutely don't believe in astrology. This is why I said, fuck you, because I'm like, you're making me do this when you don't even like it. This is my punishment to you for believing in a song. Dustin Hoffman.

Okay. Okay. So I'm just going to talk around this. What is it about Aries that makes you think it's Susan and Gwyneth? Specifically. I don't know. What are Arias supposed to be like? This is why I'm asking you.

You're the one who knows this shit. I don't know this stuff all that well. Aries, I think of them as maybe forward and unabashed and unafraid. This is not the reason why I did this quiz, But this is my thing with astrology is every single sign seems to me people being like, oh, that sign. They're all incredibly. I don't know a lot of Aries. So it's like if it's a sign that I know people, I know the supposed traits better.

But every single sign seems to be people are a lot and a nightmare. Like that's sort of every single sign. People are like, Aries. Well, no wonder. cancer is not, you know. Right. Cancers are supposed to be like weepy little helpers or whatever. And Virgos are supposed to be.

You've called me worse. I'm a Leo. People fucking hate Leo's. Like every single thing I hear people say about Leo's, they're like, get rid of owl Leo's in your life. Like, just like, jettison them. They are, you should not have Leo's in your life. So, okay, here's what I'll just say.

This is maybe not the best game. you got two correct. But like, I'm impressed you got two correct because also... Which two did I get correct? I know I got married. Natalie Portman is a Gemini. I knew that. Why did you know that?

Because I'm gay. Okay. And Meryl Streep is indeed a cancer. So you got that. Also, Susan and Gwyneth are not Aries, but they are both the same sign. So I'm going to say that's like half a point. They're both Libra's. Dustin Hoffman's the only Leo.

which I think is very interesting. Chedison allios. I'm saying! This is what I'm saying! Also, Scorpios are supposed to be like the most like... Hot-headed. But like insane. And, like, yes.

And it's Joaquin Phoenix and Anne Hathaway. I'm kind of surprised you didn't guess Anne Hathaway for Scorpio. I didn't know she was a... I mean, I guess it's not surprising she's a water sign, but I didn't know that she was a water sign. Who are the water signs? Cancer, Pisces, and Scorpio. Pisces makes sense because it's a fish, right? Pisces is

Holly Hunter, by the way. Great. Chris Cooper and Anne Hathaway. No, sorry. Chris Cooper and... No, you get Chris Cooper and Hesbony Hopkins and J.K. Simmons are the Capricorns. Great. I don't know whether that makes any sense whatsoever. Chris Cooper is the other cancer besides Merrill Streep.

So it's you, Chris Cooper, and Merrill together, which is better than me and Dustin Hoffman. Catch us at Happy Hour. Yeah. The three areas are Reese, Alan Arkin, and Robert Downey, Jr. I don't know. Great. I don't know.

Anyway, good job guessing all the Oscar winners. All right. We're moving on. Jake Dillon Hall. Good 10 movies. Talk about Peter Sarsgaard, who I think is the best performance in the movie. Yes, and I kind of felt like when this movie was coming out, because I love Peter Sarsgaard. Yeah.

Especially at this time, Post-Kinsey, I was very interested in the Sars guard. Speaking of growling at the screen and wolf whistling and bonking your... Not in this movie. No, but in Kinsey, I mean. Peter Sarsgaard and Kinsey, I imagine, does it for you in a... Could it blew me over with a feather. In a Paldano in the Fabelman's kind of a way. Peter Sarsgarde, at this point, it feels like this is...

Has Peter Sarsigard been in, like, the conversation for Oscar? after this movie. Because it's interesting that you know, when you think of these kind of trajectories of someone getting, you know, being in the conversation, it usually pays off. I'm trying to think of somebody contemporary that has worked in this way because you have him in,

boys don't cry, the type of performance that's never really going to be a nominee unless, you know, that's a best picture nominee. but it at least puts him on the map. Shattered glass, he gets very close in 03 and follows it up in 04 with Kinsey and Garden State. So it's like with Jarhead, he would be perfectly primed to finally make it happen if this movie like lands better.

I feel like since... Since Jarhead, I think the closest you're getting with Peter Sarzgard is... I mean, you could talk about... experimenter, right? Where, like, and we'll probably do an episode on experimenter at some point. He's the lead. He plays Stanley Milgram in that movie.

That is a indie movie that in a best case scenario might have caught fire and got him a, like, Blue Moon level Oscar nomination, right? Um, doesn't. But it's, the other ones are mostly him being in movies that get Oscar attention, but he, his particular performance is not part of that conversation. It's like he's in an education. He's in... Yeah, he's like closest with an education.

He's in Blue Jasmine. He's in... He plays RFK and Jackie. He's in... The Lost Daughter. You know what I mean? All of these movies he's in... He doesn't play RFK.

He plays Bobby Kennedy. Or sorry. Yeah, RFK. I would love to see Sarasgar do that. No, Bobby Kennedy was RFK before fucking... He's the original RFC. We did not call him RFK. Yes, we did.

Bobby Kennedy. There was a whole fucking football stadium that was called RFK Stadium. Like, absolutely he was RFK. 100%. Just a couple years ago, he was in September 5, which I actually think he's really, really good in. I feel like there was a moment where that movie memory had a little bit of Oscar buzz. The catch-up entertainment of it all.

For Sarsgard. He's really good in that movie. That is not good. But he generally has none of those, none of those movies that I've just mentioned have ever gotten to the level of like precursor award stage. He's never been in like, he wasn't in like a Golden Globe lineup for any of those. I don't think he was in any. September 5, he might have gotten a Critics' Choice nomination. Give me a second.

I don't think so. What was the most he got? He was He was an M4G winner for September 5 supporting actor That's what it was I refuse to believe that he is M4G eligible

Well I guess he's a silver fox now Peter Sarsgaard is 55 years young The thing I wrote down He's on the list for like best actor to never be nominated for an Oscar, right? Of the, like,

best active, like, not like all time, whatever there's their year. But he does take a lot of these roles that it's like, well, that's never, that's a role that's never going to be nominated. Right. But just like, sometimes it's like, what are you doing here, dude? Like in the Batman, where he just shows up to, like, be a guy.

He's just a guy. But he's really good. But, like, he shows up and he's really good. He reminds me a little bit of crude up in that way. Like, crude up will just, like, show up for a great part in a movie that he's never going to, like Jay Kelly, obviously, is the current rating champion of that. We should also mention, or I should at least, that Sarsgaard has gotten two Emmy nominations in the last five years. He was nominated for dopesick, and he was nominated

for Presumed Innocent. He's so good. That's another him and Jake together. He's so good in Presumed Innocent, a series that is part of a general trend that I don't like, which is take a fun legal thriller or like some kind of like movie we don't make anymore that was good and turn it into eight eight episodes of a TV show. Like presumed innocent is the exception to that rule and that like I think that show was really, really good and really, really entertaining and full of really good and interesting performances. Jake is really good. Ruth Naga, Bill Camp. O.T. I don't know how we pronounce his last name, so Faj-Belais, the guy from The Handmaid's Tale.

Renata Rinesov is in that show. Elizabeth Marvel is in that show. I don't know. I really liked it. Certainly does not deserve to be in the same conversation as the fatal attraction reboot. That is bad. You know what I mean? So, just say.

Yeah, I think Peter Sarsgaard, the fact that Peter Sarsgaard isn't, has never, has never, been nominated for an Oscar does not sit right in my spirit. It just feels like a thing that should not be true. I agree. Okay. There we go. Anything else, I wrote down a lot of notes. There was a lot. They played so much of Don't Worry Be Happy. Like, I feel like we almost got the whole song of Don't Worry Be Happy. I understand that we need to set ourselves in the time and place of this movie. and like no song is more, hey guys, it's 1990, than Bobby McFerrins, don't worry, be happy.

The needle drop that got me that I was just like, absolutely not, was the Nirvana needle drop because definitely the Batman. Speaking of the Batman. The Batman trailer, yeah. Brought it back. But watching this movie, I really thought never again.

I'm sure at the time I thought never again, you can't just stop doing this. but the Batman brought it back. Really good, though. Also, the end credits, fucking Jesus walks. I rolled my eyes so hard. Great.

I rolled my eyes so hard. We had lost our minds in 2005. But, like, the needle drops in this movie are kind of wild because it's those two, OPP, which is the song that's playing during the naughty by nature song that's playing during the Santa Hat scene,

fight the power during the big bomb. on fire thing after everything's done. There's a Tom Waits needle drop when things get serious. Oh, they roll out bang a gong at one point, and I'm just like, it really underlined for me that like Long Legs kind of owns that now for me a little bit. That song coming out at the end of Long Legs. Oh, so the Ride of the Volkries thing. So as I'm looking at the soundtrack, which is reminding me of this.

So there's one point where they show the Marines. Now on movie night. Right. But they like specifically, we see them watching the Ride of the Volcaries, Robert Duval, sort of the choppers all coming upon the beach scene. And excuse me. And they're watching it like it's a hype video, right? Like they are like getting, you know, they're getting charged up. They're whooping. They're, you know, they're getting agro. This is getting their blood pressure. up, they're all, you know, they're getting psyched up for this. Which is so wild because, like, Apocalypse now is like the ultimate anti-war movie. But this is the thing and this is the point I wanted to make is because, obviously, yes, that was the intention of that movie. That is, if you watch that movie with any kind of critical faculties to it, that's what

you get out of it. Obviously, Coppola went through all that hellish stuff to do that. And then what do you end up with, which is a movie that is, yes, revered as this great war is madness, war is hell, a movie, and yet it is for these guys a hype video. And so does that count as Sam Mendes having a sense? Like, he can't have missed that irony, right? Like, Sam Mendes has to know by putting that in there that he is now also running the threat of making an anti-war movie that ends up being a movie that soldiers watch to, like, psych themselves up to go to war.

You know what I mean? And I don't think anything that happens in the movie in terms of reflecting on what negative consequences this has for these soldiers, or the fact that they never fired their gun, or the fact that it is ultimately them roaming a desert. for two hours, changes the fact that you are still showing, there's

any number of scenes in this movie that could be interpreted as pro war, pro militarism, pro-soldier, you know, all this kind of stuff. And it kind of

underlines the futility for that to me. I'm just like how many more war movies This is where I was at with warfare. How many more war movies do we need to make before we ultimately realize that making movies that are anti-war, but pro-soldier, ultimately does not get us anywhere.

Serve the message. Does not serve the message we want to serve. Or playing to an audience that's, you know, not willing to see the actual message of the movie, maybe. Yeah, yes. Well, some of it also is just like agro-men. maleness, right? Like, it's not even about, like, the message of the movie or that you're even watching a war movie. It's just that you're watching a movie that has maleness at the center

and masculinity at the center. Like, you know, is it that that audience is watching it? Because there's, you know, almost no women that speak. Right. But you're watching this and you're watching a movie where a guy gets branded with a, you know, marine brand, where, um, they're, you know, off, you know, fake-humping each other in the dunes to the news camera, like, to the news crew. All of this stuff that feels to a certain audience, oh, this is immaturity. Oh, this is showing they're like inhumanity. Oh, you know, all of them watching this video of the guy's wife having sex with the other guy.

And we're watching this and we're just like, you know, sort of like, you know, tut-tut. And, you know, doesn't this sort of show all of this as being so essentially inhumane and cruel and they're, you know, losing their humanity and all these kind of like intellectualizing of the movie? And meanwhile, on a very, like, basic visceral level, couldn't you watch any kind of scene where, like, guys are being rowdy with each other? You show that to a certain audience. And they're like, fuck, yeah, this is great. You know what I mean? And so again, and again, you're not, I don't think anybody has the responsibility to like make a movie based on the like lowest common denominator audience who will see it. Yeah, you don't make a movie for the audience who is not going to hear you.

You make an audience for the movie that is going to hear you. Right. But it is. But like, you know, how do we get, how did we get here today? You know what I mean? It is sort of the thing. of we get here today because there are just, I don't know, man. I don't know.

I don't want to like, I can't, we don't have enough time. We're already over the two hour mark. We're not going to get into masculinity. I could go on and on and on about this topic. No, I know. We really could. I think those are kind of. Anybody else you want to highlight in the cast other than obviously we have to get

Chik Krasinski. Yeah. Well, what did you think of Lucas Black, who you were so in love with just two episodes ago for Get Low? I mean, Lucas Black also playing not a character that you really want to spend time with, but I do think, again, like I thought with that movie, that this is a really charming actor who I wish was doing anything else other than, like, is he's on like an NCIS or a CSI?

Yes, one of those. Yes, I think we mentioned that in the Get Low episode. Not that we don't want him to be employed, but like, yeah. There's a lot of good actors on those types of shows. I think Lucas Black is really good in this movie, too. a purgatory. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, you mentioned John Krasinski, who is a bespectacled nerd in this movie who ends up getting some sort of moonshine to Jillon Hall for their Christmas Eve, Bacchanal. That's three in the Bacchanal jar for me. This is somehow our sixth John Krasinski movie. Somehow, despite the fact that he's only been a major component of, three of them. But, well, it's complicated. He's probably the fifth most prominent character. Yeah. Sure. He's part of the big, like, comedic set piece of the movie. Yes. I literally watched it again as I was

going around looking at Krasinski clips. No matter how, no matter what Alec Baldwin says or does, No matter what John Krasinski says or does, I will never not find the scene of Alex Baldwin blowing pot smoke into John Krasinski's waiting mouth to be unerotic because it is. I'm sorry. It just is. Okay. Six timers for John Krasinski. We have covered it's complicated. Promised Land, the Gus Van Sant movie, Promise Land. The Holiday, the Nancy Myers movie, The Holiday. Leatherheads, the Clooney film about old football. Away we go, Sam Mendez, talking about how do we become better parents than our parents. And then Jarhead, which is a movie about soldiers being dudes. It's a movie about Jar's Head.

And, okay, so, recently, we've shaken up the six-timers thing, and instead of doing a quiz, Chris and I each pick a quote from one of these movies, and deliver it in some manner of our choosing. Doesn't have to be a funny voice, can be, you know, a particular emotion, can be flat as you please, however we want to do it.

And then the other person will try and guess what movie that quote is from. I think I went first last time. Sure. So I'll go first. Yeah. The bit of dialogue that I have selected, I think, when we think of Krasinski now and probably moving forward. We think of the Quiet Place movies.

She ushered into being. So I am reading this as if I was existing in the post-apocalyptic Quiet Place universe. Oh. Having to have this conversation, but not get killed by. ASMR folks. Get ready. Chris is going to drive you crazy. I've brought this up about the Quiet Place movies before. Which is.

And I just have not had. a thoughtful answer from anyone who watches movies or anyone related to the making of these movies. Which is. And you know I don't like this type of humor, but it is a legitimate question. How do people shit quietly? How do people fart in the quiet place? Are there no farts? No.

They all just vary. I guess there's not like processed food. This is a world in which they have like outfitted their. living spaces to have like soft little pathways to walk on so they don't crunch pebbles or whatever. They have absolutely evolved into manually spreading their butt cheeks so that when they fart, it's just like a silent, a silent poof of gas. Also, like, Darwinism kicks in and anyone with sleep apnea is dead. Oh, that's what would get, that's what would get me. Because you can like, you can control your farts when you're awake.

When you're asleep, I would, one night, one night's rest would have been, that would have been it for me. Maybe a great way to go, the way that those aliens work. Just like, you fall asleep, you get the first like, and then it's just like, rah, rah, rah, rah, that's like you're done. That'd be me. Anyway, here, here is my reading as someone who exists in the Quiet Place universe. Okay. I'm trying to, I'm trying to not do ASMR. Nope, you have to.

It's unavoidable. I don't have nails, but I'm clicking them. front of my microphone. Dolly Parton, 9 to 5. The very first A. Meanwhile, I have this jar of pickles here. Do we give Dolly credit enough for

inventing ASMR with the 9 to 5 of acrylic fingernails? It's true. It's true. Though I am tired of being told that story as if I've never heard before. As if it's not part of our like collective cultural lexicon that like she,

you know, everybody's like, do you know that doll? And I'm like, Yes, I know. I'm a gay person. We've known this for decades. I know. We all know.

Shut up. All right. Continue. It's so weird to just like whisper into a mic. I'm sorry. Do you promise to let our daughter be fat or skinny or any weight at all? Because we want her to be happy. No matter what, being obsessed with weight is just too cliche for our daughter.

And do you promise if I die, some embarrassing and boring death, that you're going to tell our daughter that her father would. was killed by Russian soldiers in this intense hand-to-hand combat in an attempt to save the lives of 850 Chetneyan orphans. Excellent. Alien arrives and kills me. Excellent performance. All right.

Alien arrives and kills me, not because I made noise, but because I did terrible at that. And I chose a terrible monologue. You did well, and you did a very good monologue. I will guess after I deliver mine, all right? Yeah. I have chosen to do my monologue in the voice. of Kermit the Frog. Great, right?

I need to get out of town. You know, I think I need some peace and quiet, or whatever it is, people go away for. You know what I really want to do? I want to eat carbs without wanting to kill myself. Yay! You know, I want to read a book. Not just a magazine, an actual book.

For years, I read the reviews. I buy the books, but I never read them. Did you read that article in the New York Times last Sunday? Severe stress makes women age prematurely because stress causes the DNA in our cells to shrink until they can no longer replicate. So when we're stressed, we looked haggard. Yay! Okay. That's it.

Thank you, Kermit's gay brother. Yeah. Kermit at Fleet Week. Well, that's it's complicated. No, it's not. It's the holiday. You caught the Nancy of it all, but it is actually, it's the holiday. It's the holiday. Yeah. It's Kate, I imagine. Right? That doesn't sound like a Cameron Diaz line. It sounds like Kate winslet. All right. Yours is from away we go. Yours is the wonderful Maya Rudolph, one of the wonderful bits of dialogue for Maya Rudolph and away we go. It's actually from John Krasinski. Oh, is it really?

It is. Oh, that's interesting. I should watch A Way We Go again. No, of course it is. Of course it is, now that you mention that. Because he's the one, yes, she's the, yes, she's the less verbal of the two of them about all that stuff, at least until the end. Okay, so. Any last thought on Jars' head?

No. Listeners, let us know if you like this new six times. timers thing. I'm not entirely sold on it. We'll see. We'll keep tinkering. I don't want to kill six timers in general, but like we we got to find a way to pair this shit down because it is we can't be doing five quizzes an episode, which seems possible on the horizon. Yeah. It's just the dangers of doing a podcast this long. For this long, yeah. Yeah. All right. Anywho, Would you like to explain the IMDB game to our list? No, yeah.

So every week we do every episode we do the IMDB game, which is a game wherein we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try to guess at the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. And I'm going to take a sip in my drink because my throat is parched. That Kermit voice really takes it out on you. If any of those titles are television shows, voice only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. after two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

And if that is not enough, it becomes a free for all of hints. All right. Would you like to give her a guess first? I'll give first. All right. So we didn't talk a lot about screenwriter William Broils, and that's fine. Although he's a one-time Oscar nominee for the screenplay for Apollo 13. Love.

Love, Love, Apollo 13. In Apollo 13, who we have not done on the IMDB game and since pre-COVID times, is one Kevin Bacon. Mr. Bacon. Kevin Bacon, renowned for being in lots of movies because... Renowned for having his own game. Yeah. See, but Kevin Bacon is hard because of this very thing. I'm saying.

I will say Apollo 13. No. No. Okay. Strike one. Wild things. Strike two. Yes.

Strike two. Okay. So your years are 1984, 2003, and 2004. Is one of those the woodsman?

Yes. 2004 is in fact the woodsman. But writer-director, which I think gives, he's only credited as, or no, he's not a director. What was the movie he directed?

I don't know why I thought he'd directed the Woodsman. He didn't. He does star in it with Keir Sedric. Never mind. But anyway, uh, 2004, the Woodsman. Okay, 2000 is Hollow Man. Yes. 84 and what? O3. Oh, O3's Mystic River. Yes. I can't believe that 84 is the last one you're getting. Um, well, there's a, he was in a lot of 80s movies. Uh-huh. But like one that made him famous. Oh, God. What's the, what's the, oh, well, footloose. Yes, footloose. Okay. There you There you go. All right.

The Footloose is a weird era of a movie for IMDB game. It is. They don't tend to dip into the 80s very often. Yes, I agree with you. Unless you're like Michael J. Fox. Right. You know, a mid-80s movie. Like even Elizabeth Shue didn't have her Back to the Future movies on there.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You're right. So for you, we've discussed, we mentioned at least, Sam Mendez's other war movie, 1917. I chose for you the star of the movie, if not the headliner. I believe the headliner, the first build actor is Benedict Cumberbatch.

Sure. Who might have gotten the and, maybe, I don't know. I chose George McKay. George McKay. All right. We're going to start with 1917. Correct. Captain Fantastic. Life in plastic. Captain Fantastic is correct. Nice. Okay. Oh, I'm not going to get the title right, but it's like the strange and wonderful history of the Kelly Gang, whatever, the horrible and violent history of the Kelly Gang.

The true history of the Kelly Gang. Yes. Is incorrect. Okay. I don't think it's your, your fave movie The Beast in there. One of the best movies of the 2020s, Bertrand Benelho's. The Beast. George McKay.

I also don't think it's the musical from last year that I thought was really good. Is it pride? Pride is also incorrect. Ah, he's so good in pride. Your years are 2003 and 2013. Okay. 2003? He's got to be a toddler.

He's definitely playing a child. Okay. So what's a movie? Is he in love, he's not in love actually. It's not love actually. Different genre. One of the kids that, who opened the door to Hugh Jackman, or to Hugh Jackman, to Hugh Grant. I hate Uncle Jamie.

I hate Uncle Jamie. That was George McKay. Okay. O3. Is there a Peter Pan movie in O'3? Is it the PJ Hogan Peter Pan? It is the PJ Hogan, Peter Pan. Is he John or Michael? He plays a.

a child named Curly. Oh, probably one of the lost boys then. We all know George McKay for playing a child named Curley in the PJ. PJ, Peter Pan. Okay. 2013. I don't know if you've seen this movie. So a year before Pride, two years before Captain Fantastique.

You know this movie exists and you know it exists for its lead actress. Captain Fantastique, the off-Broadway gay, gay cabaret version of Captain Fantastic. that has become a sensation. Okay, I know this why. I was totally bullying over... You know this because of the lead actress, for sure. In 2013. He is one of her potential to love interests, I believe.

The other love interest is also someone famous. Is it a British movie? Yes. So it's like a teen romance. Is it kind of a post-apacist? I believe. Is it like Life After Beth or something like that?

No. The lead actress was already an Oscar nominee. Sersha. Yes. Post-apocalyptic, Sershia. Is it like... Directed by the director of

someone who directed a lead actor winning Oscar performance. Is it that one Sersha movie that has the same title as another more popular movie? No, you're thinking of the host. I am thinking of the host. Thank you. Is it how we live now, how I live now? How I live now.

So that's Australian, I feel like, isn't it? No. No. Takes place in the English countryside. Tracks. Tracks is the one I'm thinking of. It's directed by Kevin McDonald, who directed the last king of Scotland. Yes, that's right.

I never saw how I live now Did you ever see how I live now? I should Who's the other guy in it? Tom Holland. Oh, interesting. Wow, that would be a very interesting movie to see from this perspective.

Okay. That's it. That's all of them. That's it. That's our episode. If you want more ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHad OscarBuzz.com.

Follow us on Instagram at this head Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Oh, letterboxed and blue sky at Joe Reed, Reed spelled R-E-I-D, and Vulture all the time, by the time you're listening to this, I will have turned the corner into Emmy season and will be mainlining episodes upon episodes of TV shows that I... A comeback, baby! ...was too busy with Oscar stuff to watch, so get ready. I'm going to be crazed, absolutely crazed. Do we think Lisa Kudrow has a shot at winning the comedy Emmy? I don't know about winning, but she was nominated for both of the previous two seasons.

I mean, like, are they just going to give it to Gene Smart again? They might. It's the Emmys. They might. Yeah. It's a weird, I will say this. In my preliminary, like, research, this is a weirdly hollowed-out Emmy season, where it's like you're going to get hacks, you're going to get the pit, you're going to get beef, And then it's like, how are we filling in these spots? Because there's not a lot of like big major. Like, pluribus, yeah.

But like you're going to be like... Is it? Is it running as a comedy or a drama? Pluribus is running as a drama. Yeah. You're going to get a lot of either like the sixth season of something that the Emmys have previously loved or like a lot of new shows that you're like... I don't know.

Either like I like it, but I don't know if the Emmys are like it, will like it, or I don't like it, but the Emmys might like it. Well, if you're not giving it to the comeback, give it like top to bottom, give Abbott Elementary their chance while they, you know. Yes. While there's some open space. Are still on the air. Yeah. You can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky, Krispy File. That's F.

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