This Had Oscar Buzz - 388 – La Chimera

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

We’re talking about one of our favorite films of the 2020’s this week with Alice Rohrwacher’s La Chimera. Told with magical realism and an earthy bespoke quality, the 2023 film follows Josh O��Connor as a British archaeologist in Italy who belongs to a crew of tombaroli, grave robbers who sells off their findings. With O’Connor speaking … Continue reading "388 – La Chimera"

Hello, the right house. I didn't get married. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. I've told her the senior Flora. You never said that would say I'm going to. Look, look, what's what I'm anewan. Tadia, thanks.

Mancha. She wants to hear what we say. If you want to find a course accelerated in Italian. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast, that's listening to Keith Carradine saying that sweet, sweet bluegrass. Every week on this had Oscar Buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with my buried Etruscan treasure, Chris File. Hello, Chris. Buried Etruscan Treasure. Isn't that the name of that, like, Christopher Plummer movie that got a ARP movies for Grunup Award nomination? Something about Etruscan.

Is it Christopher Plummer, or was it? Is it someone else? Is it? I don't know. Now I want to look this up. Yeah, no. We cannot just throw out M4G's facts all willy-nilly and then not back it up. What other show are you going to get that from, though?

Exactly. Exactly. Are you talking about the Etruscan Smile starring Brian Cox? Brian Cox and the Etruscan Smile. Awards tab for the Etruscan Smile. Best intergenerational film, The Etruscan Smile. Wow. I don't remember ever even thinking about this movie.

That's crazy. The Etruscan smile in this movie is the kind of Mona Lisa expression on the statue. Before it's beheaded? Yeah, before the statue that was not made for human eyes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. What a lovely movie. What a lovely movie movie. If Josh O'Connor looked at me and said, I was not made for human eyes,

I would turn to stone. I know. I know. And that's how statues are made. As he cradled me in his loving embrace. That's how statues are made, in fact, is Joshua O'Connor walks up to a person. He's gay Medusa.

When he walks up to someone, a human person. He turns them to stone. He pays them a sincere compliment, and they turn to stone, and then they sell that person to museums and such. Softboy legend, Josh O'Connor. I mean, it really is something. I was watching this movie. And I was like, I'm trying to, like, sum up the, like, the Josh O'Connor thing.

Because you think about him in a movie like Wake Up Dead Man. And it's like, and I understand that, like, Wake Up Dead Man was kind of counter-programming for him in a few different ways. He had never really played a character of that sort of, like, comedic, you know, sort of like quasi-comedic menchiness. while also being just the like picture of human decency in that movie. Because in so many of the movies that we really like him, he's playing a bit of, he's a card, he's a rake, he's a scumbag, he's a, you know, he's, you know, Mr. Elton in Emma, or he is Patrick Swig and Challenger's. He is a grave robber here in Lucimer.

Dirkbag incarnate in The Mastermind, though it takes maybe the course of the movie for you to realize the full extent of that. Right, right. Though I think that's a performance that people kind of quickly tied to his performance in this movie because there's somewhat remote men that he's playing in rumpled dirty clothes. And that's like the extent of the comparison. There's a soft core to most of them, maybe not in Emma, but like in challengers, in chimera and mastermind, right? There is a sort of soft vulnerability that you are really able to access with him. And it kind of makes him irresistible in that way, because like

what is, you know, what are we looking for? It's the exact opposite of something like, somebody who exteriorizes to coin a word that is probably not real, a kind of softness, but inside is calculating and sort of insincere. Whereas like with Josh O'Connor, the insincerity is on the outside or the like the scuminess goes on the outside with a lot of these characters and yet you're always very aware of this inner vulnerability, inner. Right, and he, I mean, a lot of these characters couldn't be any more different, but that is kind of the through line for a lot of his roles. Going back to, like, God's own country, where he is this, you know,

not so communicative, like, font of vulnerability, you know, because of The Closet or whatever. Right, right, yeah. And like the, you know, he's a farm worker, so he, you know, there's rolling around in the literal dirt. Goes into that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Joshua Connor is just someone who I think, regardless of how verbose, for lack of a better word, it is the character that he's playing, it's just like you put him in a frame and he's interesting to watch. He's just such a compelling actor where it's like he can play all of these very, very different people, but you see the connective tissue from performance to performance to performance.

It's also a full-body performance that he gives you, I think especially you see that in Camara, the way he walks, the way he sits on a train, you know, sits in a train car, the way he, you know, sort of carries himself, feels very thought-through. You know what I mean? feels very intentional. And I think you see that in the ways in which one of the things I really loved about challengers was how astute that movie was in the ways in which those two, you know, main characters, the two boys, sort of carried themselves on the court and like the way that their physicality was differentiated from each other as, you know, tennis players and how that then, know, translated into, obviously, their personal lives.

Camara is very, very, very much, I would say, intertwined with challengers in terms of just, like, the phenomenon of it, the sort of like they were both kind of in, because this was a delayed, much delayed release by Neon, they kind of, you know, did the cheat qualifier thing at the end of 23. Which they had quite mastered yet. You could definitely say in the past year, they figured out how to do that. for multiple movies. And then ultimately released it for real at the end of March in 2024.

And then Challenger's was released in April? When was Challenger's released? April 20. Hold on. Is it 2025? Yeah, it was a 2025 movie. No, it was 24. No, we're in 2026.

It was 2024. It was 24. What is time? But I was trying to think of, yes, April 26. Right. So, Camara hits the, hits, you know, to whatever extent it played in U.S. theaters, it never played on more than a couple hundred screens. But Challenger's gets released a month later. And so, we'll talk a little bit later

about how, you know, Camara was able to play for a while at, you know, Arthouse Theaters and stuff like that. This was part of it. It's sort of the very, very scaled down, you know, artsy version of Leo mania in 97 where like other movies starring Leo were able to you know play longer in theaters because of the Titanic thing The Art House version of that

Making Lakimera the man in the Iron Mask And a lot of maybe more casual film fans weren't aware of the qualifying release for LacuMera to the point where I remember seeing people at the end of 2024. Yeah. Upset that Lucky Mara

wasn't getting recognized in this way and it's like, oh honey, you're a year late because it should have been getting recognized that way.

The previous year when it was eligible. But that's why those cheat releases are so annoying because they're the worst of both worlds, which is they're,

they don't feel like even real qualifying releases because you know that they're just going away after a week and they're not

really being publicized because they're saving the publicity for, you know, the real release in the spring. And then once it releases in the spring, even if people really like it and it proves to be popular on an art house level, then you're like, well, the time has passed. Well, and Neon really figured that out with Surat this year because they did a qualifying release with Sarat, but they had like a full press blitz during that qualifying release. And that's probably the way that did it do it. Well, that worked out for Sarat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Not just its two nominations.

but doing so well in the, you know, bake-off lists. Yeah. And I think, you know, there's... The thing about the qualifying release is that they go in and out of fashion where... Yeah. It will... There will be a year where several movies do it get further along because that was a smart strategy for those movies.

And then there'll be other years where it's like a few movies get, like, a vanity qualifying release, maybe one or two. of significance and people get outraged about them again. Whereas, like, it can sometimes be just a better strategy for the movie. I think it was ultimately a good strategy for Surrott to do it. But I kind of find interesting in this way, especially when you talk about neon releasing Lockheumera, is I really tie it so closely to Anatomy of a Fall, which Neon also released, in that, you know, they both play Cannes.

Yeah. Obviously, Anatomy of a Fall gets the palm door. But Neon has both of these movies. Neither of the movies get selected by their country to compete in international feature. But that doesn't stop Anatomy of a Fall from chugging along in the season. Yeah. And, you know, ultimately getting an Oscar win elsewhere. But La Chimera is kind of, as soon as Italy doesn't choose the movie, it kind of, it kind of,

just gets punted. They don't really try to go for any other craft Oscars that I definitely think it could have contended for if there was more of an effort there. Costume and production design alone. Something like Sarat shows that. Yeah. Even though Serrat was selected by Spain.

Do we know offhand what was Italy's selection? Io Capitano, which did get nominated. And respectfully, I don't think is as strong of a movie. I genuinely don't even remember what that movie was.

Mateo Gironi, Ju Capitano. It's very much like a Western point of view on, you know, the refugee crisis. And, you know, I think it has good intentions, but I don't think it's a very super strong movie. Because your nominees that year, you have the Zone of Interest wins for the UK. I remember this one now. Previously mentioned. And Japan, perfect days. Vim vendors, not a Japanese

filmmaker, but obviously that was a Japanese production. The Teachers Lounge from Germany, which I thought was also well-intended, but not particularly great. And Society of the Snow, diddo. Yes. Now seeing

the Yo Capitano poster, I do remember it, but like, Camara's a much better. Like, I don't want to, like, this isn't like some shit movie, but like Leukemaire is a much better and more memorable movie, in my opinion. Well, and the other thing about anatomy of a fall, I don't want to get fully into it because I would love to do an episode on this movie.

The Taste of Things is the French submission, and it's released by IFC. You can understand that decision because also Anatomy of a Fall, there was, there's so much in English in that movie that it could seem like a game. gamble strategically, and France is somewhat respectfully thirsty to get that win. Yes. At this point. Do you feel like sentimental value winning the Oscar for international feature this year changes that calculus going forward in terms of like there was so much English language

in sentimental value that it almost felt like a quasi, you know, American film. Well, and plenty of people thought that Anatomy of a Fall still could have won international feature that year. Because the other thing is, there's also a decent amount of German in that movie, too. Right. And we've talked about this before in terms of, like, the increased sort of globalization and sort of moving away from films that are strictly one country's province or another, providence or another. You look at, you know, you look at the international feature winner that year was the zone of interest, which was a co-production of Poland and the United States and the United Kingdom.

So look at any of the, you know, sort of like last 10 lineups for Cannes, like movies in competition at Cannes. And so many of them are international co-productions, which you know, as we've said before, kind of makes you wonder how much longer they're going to be able to operate the international feature category strictly on a country-by-country basis, because there's just going to be more and more of these movies that either, you know, are, you know, sort of fought over by multiple countries or worse, fall through the cracks because...

Like, like, Umara. Right, because countries want to sort of, like, go back to their home bases and go to those movies that are only a French, you know, that are purely French, that are purely Italian, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And we've certainly talked about the, like, international co-productionness of this, you know, of the, like, global cinematic landscape as we currently live it, in relation to the international feature category. And like you see it in a year like 2023 where it's like you have filmmakers who are not based or from certain countries making films in those countries, making films not in their, you know, their native language.

But you also see that to degrees of now we have stars in movie. Like La Cuyah, you have British actor Josh O'Connor giving like 98% Italian language. in this movie. And, like, that is not just, like, that's not, you know, happenstance for this movie. It becomes textual, you know. Even Carol Duarte in this movie is a Brazilian actress playing a Brazilian in Italy. Named Italia. Which I think is very funny.

Part of that, part of this movie's sense of humor. We'll talk about, I want to talk on the others, when we get to the other side of the plot description, I want to talk about this Cannes lineup sort of more, a little bit more holistically, because I do feel like it's a really, really strong one. And also, what happened with this movie at Cannes also ties it to The Mastermind. Both of these movies played on the last day. On the last day? What does this fucking festival have against Josh O'Connor? Well, apparently the Mastermind played on the final day, which was the second time that happened to Kelly Reichart.

It played on the last day because that was. was the only day that Josh O'Connor was available to show up to the festival. Right. Which, like, the man does need a vacation. Truly. Truly does. But, so it's like, that's just how it worked out. And the tendency with Cannes is that the movies that play at that very sort of, like,

by that time, the jurors may be have made up their mind already. There's the whole thing with, you need to give the winners enough notice to, like, return to France if they're going to be winners. So, like, the awards need to be unofficially official as early as possible, like, that kind of a thing. Well, they do have a—I think the jurors are able to see films in advance of their premiere, specifically for these kind of circumstances. I forget the, like—I'm sure it varies year by year, case by case. Well, then what is your rationale to why the later movies tend to be at a disendipend?

advantage it can. I mean, probably just, it's, it's, it's probably what you're saying, but in a less formal way of like when you've had a few days to sit with a movie, rather than, you know, and that's the one that you're thinking about, you're talking about, the one that's just marinating in your mind, you have to have a pretty strong reaction to something you just saw comparatively. And it's not like the movies that play the end of the end of. the festival are fully doomed on a Cannes award, you know, level. Because, like, the Darden's first poem was a movie that played on the last day.

The Class was a movie that played on the last day and won the palm. Seed of the Sacred Fig was a last day of Cannes movie. It's still got a prize. Your recall for Can stuff, listeners, just so you know, it's formidable. Like, it really is something to how much you can just, sort of recollect at a moment's notice about past can movies. The Darden's can win was so long ago. That was a very controversial win.

People booed at the can ceremony when that movie won. It's crazy that you remembered that quickly that that was a last day of a festival. And who was the jury president? If I remember correctly, David Cronenberg. Joe, all I can say to this is, in the great words of Alma Woodcock, I live here. I live there. No, I am in no way back handing you with that compliment. I genuinely am in awe.

Thank you. I'm immensely hireable this Cannes season. Yes. Someone to write about Cannes. For God's sake, somebody pay Chris to write about Cannes. You would not be disappointed. So anyway, do we want to just sort of like plow through the plot description and get into this lovely little movie filled with great linen suits and and artifacts and such?

You know, it's my week this week. I can't promise anything brief. Sure. That's fine. There's a lot going on. I can't promise strong word usage when I'm under a time crunch. 130 minutes worth a movie, and there's a lot going on. But first, Chris, why don't you tell our listeners why they should be subscribed to our Patreon?

Gary's one and all. If you don't know already, if you are new to us for this episode, if you've been listening to this episode, but you like to skip forward on the closest thing we have to an ad on this show, we have a Patreon. We call it this had Oscar Buzz turbulent brilliance.

For $5 a month, you're going to get more of the show you love. What are you going to get with that more? Well, you're going to get two bonus episodes, first of which comes on the first Friday of the month. We call these episodes exceptions. These are going to be closer to a typical this head Oscar buzz episode where we're talking about a movie with great expectations and disappointing results,

but these are movies that manage to score an Oscar nomination or two. Since the beginning of the show, listeners have wanted episodes on movies like this. What are the movies we have done in the near three years we've had a Patreon? Crazy. Well, earlier this month, we talked about Brian De Palmas, the Black Dahlia, cinematography nominee for the great Vilmos Zygman. the movie, is it also great? Your mileage may vary.

There's a lot of ways to define great, so I'll just say that. Is there greatness within the movie? I don't know. You're going to have to check out the episode to find out. What other movies have we talked about in all of these exception episodes, episodes that people really, really love? Well, we've talked about great movies, like When Harry Met Sally, AI, Artificial Intelligence,

Not So Great Movies like Madonna's, We, Hitchcock. We've talked about great 90s hits like my best friend's wedding, contact, true lies. And then we've talked about some not so great movies. Nine, The Lovely Bones. You're going to get everything from all ends of the spectrum on exceptions episodes, not just great stuff, not just things where you like to listen to us rag on a movie. You're going to get it all. But that's not all you're going to get over on Turbulent Brulience.

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This month, we're trying a new format again, and we're going to be talking all about the original song categories of the 1990s. That episode just dropped last Friday. We have not recorded it yet, but it's going to be such a good time. I can't wait. I'm super excited. So go sign up for turbulent brilliance. Over on patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz.

Once again, that's patreon. slash this head Oscar buzz. $5 a month. You won't regret it. And we appreciate you. Yes. Fantastic. So this week, we are talking about Lakimera, the

2023-24 film directed by, do we have an official pronunciation on... Aliche-ororovace. Okay. Aliche I have gotten. Aliche Roravache.

Roravache. Roravache. Roravace. That makes sense when you look at it like that. Okay. Aliche Roravace. Written and directed by Aliche Roravace starring, first of all, Merrill, by the way,

balls in your court. Next time you accept an award, mention Aliche and get that pronunciation right, or entertainingly wrong. That's a good question. She should. Alba's always making a movie somewhere. She can't stay in my place.

If you told me that Alba was a voice in Hoppers, as was Merrill, believe you. So, um, still haven't seen hoppers. Heard, it's good. Alba was in the Italian version of hoppers called Obers. Oper's. Um, this is starring Joshua O'Connor, Joshua O'Connor's linen suit that gets progressively dingier and dingier until that very last scene worth a lot nicer and whiter. Uh, Josh O'Connor, Carol Duarte, Vincenzo Nemolato, Alba Roravache, Isabella Rossellini. Okay, I'm just going to say it.

We can... This is the movie that Isabella Rossellini should have been Oscar nominated for. Sorry, Conclave, but we're not doing it. Well, she kind of just suddenly goes away in this movie, and you never see her. And towards the end, you're like, are we going to see Isabella again? And you don't. You just don't. But she still has more to do in this movie than she doesn't Conclave.

I'm just going to say it. She's a little overshadowed by all of the eccentric sisters. Well, I mean, this is kind of the Italian, the fighter, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. The second that the sisters show up, the first time we saw this movie at TIF, I was like, well, it's over. I love this movie. This is, by the way, the second time this weekend that I've referenced the fighter, the sisters in the fighter, because last night I was watching the Ten Commandments. and when Moses shows up in the little shepherding community, where he meets Sephora, his eventual wife,

and then her five horny sisters, who literally are like, it's a man! My favorite part of the Ten Commandments, it's so funny. Your favorite part of the Ten Commandments, that's not Anne Baxter. Well, right, my favorite non-Anne Baxter part of, or any of the parts where Yule Brinner is literally standing with his fists on his hips like that?

With his tits out. Yes. Listener, this is your annual Ten Commandments reference. We're recording this episode on Literal Easter. Literally Easter Sunday. He is risen. They is risen. Me and Chris.

Meaning Yulbrenner's nipples. This movie premiered at the Cannes Film Festival on May 26, 2023, then played Telluride and Tiff and New York Film Festival. and the San Marzano film festival and the South Dakota Film Festival and the San Bernardino Film Festival and the British Columbia Film Festival and every other film festival you can possibly imagine before opening for a qualifying release in the United States on December 8th, 2023, and then opening for real for real on March 29th, 2024.

It was distributed by Neon, as we have mentioned before. It's opening weekend in March of 2024. It was the opening weekend of Godzilla X Kong, the New Empire. I still refuse to figure out how to properly pronounce that title, Godzilla X. Kong, the new empire. Godzilla by Kong? I think I heard somebody say it's just Godzilla Kong. And I'm like, well, that's fucking stupider than anything else I've ever heard. that movie was dumb for some element of it I don't believe well dumb to the tune of an 80 million

dollar opening weekend in March of 2024 I'm in favor of Rebecca Hall getting paid the second weekend of Ghostbusters Frozen Empire the I am in favor of Carrie Coon getting paid the fifth weekend of Dune part two the above yes everybody I am in favor of Leia Sadoo getting paid Here's a challenge. The fourth weekend of Kung Fu Panda, or Kung Fu Panda 4? I am in favor of Angelina Jolie getting paid. Yes, she needs it. And the second weekend of Immaculate.

No comment. Oh, there's nobody in Immaculate who you want to see it get paid. That's fair. Hold on. Who's in the supporting cast of Immaculate? I genuinely can't remember. That movie was first for controversy. I still respect the swing of the way that movie ended, I will say.

I mean, it ends in a catacomb, which, you know, I'm going to be on board. If you told me that the supporting cast for Immaculate was the same as all the tomboborinos or what do we call them? Toblerone. Toblerone's. Joseph. What? Tomboroli. It's because they're little triangle shapes, is why I call them Toblerone.

If you told me that the supporting cast of La Cimera was the same as the supporting cast of Immaculate, I would probably have to believe you, is what I was saying. La Cimera opened all the way down in 32nd place. It only played on three screens, so that's no shame. And then claimed squatters rights over the IFC film section. We'll talk about it. I definitely want to talk about it. Our friend Fran Hoffner wrote about it for Vulture back when it finally exited IFC. Center, but we will talk about it. Chris, you ready to stop scolding me about my Italian

pronunciations and do a 60-second plot description? Sure. Okay, and your time starts now. All right, so we're following Arthur. He is a British archaeologist living in Italy. He was imprisoned for doing basically grave robbing. He had a girlfriend named Benjamina who died, but nobody really seems to know that she died. He goes and finds her family once he's out of of jail and like he kind of takes up residence with them sort of sometimes. Anyway, like she Ben Yamina has crazy sisters. Isabella Ralsalini's her mom. And then there's also a maid there. Her name is she is Brazilian. Her name is Italia. She's very eccentric and she's also hiding some children in the house. Anyway, Arthur meets back up with his Tomboroli people. Like there are a crew of people

who go and do grave robbing. They make money by like digging up chalises and selling them. Then one day... Oh, and he also, like, has visions where he can find these, like, graves with a stick, basically. Eventually, he's, like, in a romantic relationship with Italia, and, like, when she finds out what he's doing, she's like, no, absolutely not. And they eventually find, like, not just a grave, but a tomb where there's this, like, pristine marble statue that like it's just one of the most incredible shocking scenes in recent cinema. And the

Tom Borleurli behead the statute and try to run off with it. There is like a competing gang of Tomloreoli who like make them think that the cop showed up. But it's not them. It's just they want to take the rest of the statue. They sell the statue to Alicerovao Roavache, or Alba Roravache, two sisters, who knew? And then Josh O'Connor, Arthur's gang shows up to Albororowice, like we have the head of this thing, you need to, we're trying to bribe you basically. And Josh O'Connor, who's been very conflicted about all of this, he throws the head into the ocean, and then, you know, Alborororacha can't sell this to all the billionaires, and then his gang basically disowns him, and he goes off to meet Italia again, and then he leaves Italia,

and then he ends up with the rival gang who set the other gang up, and then they trap him in a catacomb, and you can infer that he has died, but he is reunited with Benjamina in the afterlife of some kind. A full minute and a half over. La Chimera, a movie where Josh O'Connor, quite literally, lies for Italia. You feel like by the ending is... Talia, the country, not the person.

You think the end is them intentionally burying him in the tomb? Yes. Okay. I can see that. They don't seem like... Because there's this like elliptical, you know, the movie opens with these kind of like visions, because, you know, he has visions about where these graves are. And you see Benjamina at the beginning of the movie.

You see the string that he's like pulling through the dirt. And that's, you know, he ends up being. what's on the other side of the string and the dirt, and it's them reunited. You know, the whole movie is... Oh, I believe that he's, like, buried... ...their spiritual fulfillment. And you could infer that spiritual fulfillment,

what Aliche is saying, is only found in death. Oh, I believe that he dies at the end. My question was more, do you feel like it was purposefully... He was purposefully caved in by the other guys he was with... Yes, absolutely. Because, like, the circumstances,

he's from that other gang that we're led to believe these are the more nefarious of the gang like his, the original Tumbleroony Tumble-Tumbroni Oh, who's the asshole now, huh?

It's not that I am intention, Tumbooli. Yes. It is not that I am intentionally making a tablerone joke. It's just that I can't talk and I am not feeling well. But we're led to believe, you know, know, his, his gang is, you know, just a, just a kooky set of characters.

Yes. Where they really are. They are. The other ones where they're, like, pretending to be police so that they can just get the, make you do all the work, and then we'll get the jump and get your artifacts. Yeah. They're a little bit more of a nefarious group. They're the bad guys. Their group, when we see, we are first introduced to this band of rogues, these Tomboroli,

the group that Josh O'Connor falls back in with, who literally just sort of like kind of grasp him back into their fold. And ultimately, you know, he, you know, goes with them willingly. But we then see them riding through this local parade on this tractor all dressed up in costumes and whatever. And it reminded me of— Celebrate epiphany. Yes. Well, and I mean how appropriate, right?

Because, like, what are his visions? But, you know, epiphanies. Reminded me a little bit of the end of Antonioni's blow up with the band of Monies. who are miming the tennis match. And Lord knows whether that's an intentional thing or not. It's literally the only Antonioni movie I've ever seen, so I'm not going to be like, ah, a clear Antonioni reference. But like, who knows?

The ending, the... Wait, there was something I was going to say that was hopping off of your plot description, and now it's gone from me. So many... Italia. Italia. Okay, Italia's a fantastic character, first of all.

She's also in... I've talked about this movie on Pod before. Karim Minuz's Invisible Life, which is just like two estranged sisters going through their lives. So it's, of course, I love that movie. She's also really great in that. But she's tremendous here. Yes. She also...

I love the sort of soft surreality of this movie where it's like all of a sudden, it seems like we keep discovering new children that she's hiding in this house. That like we find out later it's just like is a total like revelation when all the sisters discover that she's like keeping children or whatever. And it's just like children are not easy to conceal. You know what I mean? It's just like all of a sudden it's just like all of a sudden it's just like all of a sister's. time she's, oh, this was the thing I was going to mention, though, is I'm looking at the Wikipedia page and the poster for La Cimera is this thing that looks like a tarot card, that like the card is La Cimera, and it's a drawing, but it's the Josh O'Connor character

upside down, sort of in, almost in repose. Hung by the ankle by the red string. string. It's a really, really pretty poster. I want to, like, get a, you know, a print of it and hang it. I have a print of the American poster, which is very, like,

a bunch of floating heads, but it's gorgeous. Yes. Drawn? Like, is that also drawn? Yes. It's the poster that Neon put out. Oh, okay. Let me see if it's on the IMDB. thing of images.

Oh, yes. I see what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very pretty. With Josh front and center. Let's just get the linen suit discussion out of the way, because it is the first thing that I think of when I think about this movie, which is it's so, it literally is like it's the green dress

from Atonement of this movie. And the fact that, that it's so kind of momentous when he finally changes into something different, I'm literally just like, almost like... Bring it back! Well, yes, but I'm also just like, this is like, it's literally him putting, you know, his old life away a little bit, and that cute little pink t-shirt he puts under the sort of like brown suit.

The other suit. The fact that he, like, picks that out. like off of the ground. You know what I mean? Well, they even mention it that he's wearing a dead man's clothes. Right, right. But of course it looks like absolutely perfect on him. Like there is nothing better in movies than watching Josh O'Connor wear clothes.

And then he like goes and finds Italia again and she's living in this train, like sort of converted train station with other sort of. of single moms and their children. This little oasis of... Yeah. Not to use, you know, hashtag phrases, but like, found family. Right. Even then, he can't find a spiritual fulfillment there when...

As it's presented, it's just like, how could you not be happy in this... Like, it is like this little oasis of bliss in the movie, but it's still not quite... it's ultimately not for him and so he spends the last bit of the movie lost and he doesn't find that restoration until death well and it goes back to like the soft surreality of the movie that I you know that I talk about where there are you know things throughout the movie

even the stuff like the guy who keeps like singing songs that are essentially like narrating what Arthur is, like Arthur's entire sort of story, and the, you know, the mission statements of this group of Tomb Raiders and what they're doing now and what they're going to do next. And it's, you get the kind of full story, sort of, on Arthur, being this idea that, like, some people, rob graves because that's the only way that they can, you know, raise their station. And some people rob graves because they've fallen for the, you know, the modern condition of wanting, you know, of greed, whatever. And they, you know, say it without saying it, that, like, Arthur is trying to find his purpose, his meaning. his sort of like, what is he, you know, what does he ultimately want? Because he doesn't do this

to get wealthy. You know, he doesn't do it even necessarily to get by, because like he can like get by doing, you know, other things. He can get by just on the charm of, you know, charming Isabella Rosalini. And some of the important context for this, too, is that he's like this, fallen archaeologist. And when you think of an archaeologist, you think of like an academic. Yes. So the world that he came from itself is not a fulfilling world. So he's kind of still trying to find his place.

He's been rejected. He's been cast out. He's, you know, and yet he seems to at least believe that he has this gift of these visions. You know what I mean? And so he kind of seems to be sort of like following along. He's sort of the tail to the dog. The visions are the dog and he's the tail, kind of. Because he never quite seems to be, he always feels like he's like reluctantly kind of going along with all of these things.

And then I think when you finally really see him is the moment where he talks. tosses the head of the statue into the water, where, you know, it's this, as you say, sort of this, like, miracle of this statue. And he's so aghast when they take the head off of it. And that's almost like his atonement for that. Well, but it's also, that scene is so moving because it's just like you have the chaos of like Aubero Roarote and the Tumbleroly, the Tamporoly. together, that you get like this kookiness while he's still kind of outraged of what's become of what they're doing,

that you get that moment where the sound drops out and he's just kind of in the divine awe of what he's holding in his hands. And by throwing it into the water, it's this rejection of, you know, the whole enterprise, basically. Yeah. That what he's ultimately... The corporatization of Tomb Raiding used to be a... sacred thing. And now you millionaires and billionaires have gone and ruined it. Well, yes. They're trying to either move their

station or, you know, just finding some type of wealth and, you know, you see these factories in the background of this beautiful landscape where it's just like, this is, I think, is subtextually a very political movie. A movie about economic

inequality. But those, the songs that you mention is the closest thing that it gets to being didactic. Sure. And because of this like slight surreality to

everything in the movie, because of the like fabalistic quality that doesn't feel didactic. It feels like a device of a certain type of storytelling. Yeah. To have these like songs interspersed throughout the action

that's kind of informed by what we're seeing and telling you what you're supposed to kind of think about it. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's one of the things that I love about this movie is with as much as going on, it always feels very delicate. It trusts the audience to get there and connect all of these dots that it's connecting without ever really telling you what to think. And I think especially in the modern era of movies that are about things like economic disparity, evil billionaires, et cetera, it's really uncommon for movies that are dealing in. these kind of themes to feel this

you know six feet off the ground quasi spirituality yeah there I mean this movie is definitely keeping one foot in the tactile world and one in the spiritual realm but also just that like I don't think that this is a movie that even thinks that it's smarter than the audience

right you know right in the way that a lot of those movies that are about those things feel like and maybe this There's a real sense of play to this movie, not to be, like, obnoxious about it, but, like, it does feel like it's a very... Not to be acting exercise about it. Right, but no, it's a very playful movie in a way that I really love. There are those scenes of them running at, like, the slightly sped up, you know, the slightly sped at pace that they're looking like quasi-benny Hill sketches, you know what I mean? And, like, nothing is funnier to me than, like, sped-up running for whatever reason. You have, like, a tertiary.

character breaking the fourth wall. Yes. For seemingly no reason. The sisters are all, you know, doing their part and they're very funny. The reveal of Alba, when we find out that she is this criminal mastermind

who has been spoken about but not seen. And we're assuming that Sparico is some, like, you're imagining this like fat Italian gangster or something like that, just like with a pinky ring and whatnot. But Spartaco is also like a genius name for this nefarious, like, evil art overlord, because it sounds like it's like an oil company.

Well, right. And then you first see her on these like loading docks or whatever. And the like the characters in front of her sort of like part and it's just like, she's just like emerges as they're putting this headless statue packing it, I found this so ingenious, packing it in a crate of soccer balls. I'm like, next. time I move, I want to, like, use soccer balls to insulate. It doesn't seem like the most efficient when it's at something. But it also is like... As someone at mid-move, I can tell you large boxes, expensive. Very, very much so. But also just the real insidious nefariousness with how she's, you know, on her boat auction with all of these billionaires and, you know, these people.

And she's trying to sell them on... purchasing this statue and selling it as there it is invaluable. Oh, that scene is incredible. I love the bullshittery. So you have to figure out what that value. This like evil like selling. It's such bullshittery. You have this artifact.

You have this that inspires awe. Absolutely. It has been desecrated essentially. Like we have seen it desecrated. And yes, she's just like, it's, you know, this ineffable thing. And it's, you know, the way you can, you know, put one over on art collectors or whatever is really something. The other scene that, like, really just, when it happened, the first time I saw it, really locked it in.

Then I was like, oh, my God, this is a, this is, like, because you can talk about all of the less tangible, the fanciful thing. of this movie that are so bespoke that are so unlike any other movie that you see. The way that Aliche has these fabulistic movies feel so one of a kind. But I think this is also just like brilliant storytelling structure and just like really powerful like visual storytelling is the scene when they get into the tomb. And you see that statue for the first time. My jaw was on the floor That that's where we're going

Because like the tumble roly They're getting things like Chalices Out of like graves That are disintegrated But they find a true Tomb and they find this Beautifully preserved piece

That it's like This isn't just someone's grave This is supposed to be like A monument to the gods Right And they just so happen to tumble upon it And it's so shocking when you see it.

Like my jaw's on the floor of the whole scene. And every time that I've watched this movie, when they crack the head off of that statue, it's like impossible to not make a sound when that happens. Because it's so shocking. Yes. But like, Aliche has been kind of setting it up for this the whole time.

And even those like, those like narrative songs that happen throughout, it's setting up like, here's the like moral status. of what these people are doing, and some of it is not so poorly intended. And we think that we're watching a group that is of a certain moral code. Yes, they're the peer, they're doing grave robbing the right way. You know what I mean? They are not these corporate what types. They're not these organized gangsters or whatever. They are these humble, quirky, you know, they have fun. The scene where Josh O'Connor

where Arthur fakes being sick to his stomach so they can get rid of the hangers on so that they'll all leave so that they can go hunt for the treasure themselves, they're funny. They're fun, they're whimsical or whatever. And right, and that's the scene where you're like,

oh, they also just like have no soul for this. They have no real appreciation for what they're doing. It's that thing like, it makes me think of parasite. When there's like a moment in a movie where it really locks, something happens, and it really suddenly all of the themes that have been built up through maybe the first act of the movie really fall into place.

And it tells you the perspective that a movie is coming from and like re-informs what you've been watching the whole. time in a way that I find really, really impressive. I want to talk about Aliche Rorvaecé's career, and then I want to get into boomerang around into why we think this particular movie didn't connect as strongly as other maybe movies contemporaries of it. And you're going to help me out a lot with this, because this is the only feature film of Aliche Rovaches that I've seen. It comes on to the scene in 2011 with a movie called Heavenly Body.

Have you seen this movie? Corpus Celeste. I have not seen this movie. I don't know how... Are you not able to access this movie? I don't know. I bet it's on canopy. Oh, it's on movie, apparently.

I don't have a movie anymore. The big one for Aliche is The Wonders in 2014, which wins the Grand Prix at Cannes. Jane Campion's jury See See this is what being friends with Chris File does You have all this information Right at your fingertips The Wonders is about what's

It's a group of sisters Who they have a film production Basically happening in their backyard On their farm So it's also about Storytelling and movie making It's maybe the Oh Monica

is still like, huh? Monica Balucci is in this movie. Is she one of the sisters? No, no, they're younger sisters. Oh, sorry. Young women. Got it. It's one of her movies, at least I haven't seen Corp. Celeste, it's the most like rooted

in the real world that it doesn't feel so overtly fabalistic. But I loved it. It's wonderful. Alba Ravache is also in that movie. And then 2018 Happy as Lazaro, which also wins a prize at Cannes. It wins the screenplay prize. Which you watch that movie, and it's a little odd to be like,

Screenplay, okay, maybe there is something to it when people say that the screenplay prize at Cannes. It's usually like, we need to give this movie a prize. Let's give it screenplay. Because it's such a directorial vision to me. Obviously, like the fable structure of that movie, that movie, that movie, ultimately becomes a little more didactic than something like La Cimera, with where it goes. But that movie is truly just, like, touched by the gods in terms of this, like, surreality that is commonplace in Aliche's filmography.

I love Lazaro Felice, also known as happy as Lazaro. You can watch it on Netflix right now, listener. I keep meaning to do just that. and I've got to find the right time for it. And then I also included 22's Le Pupuile, which is a live-action short film that was produced by Alfonso Quaron, which has probably went a long way towards it getting nominated

for the Oscar for live-action short film. And it was on Disney Plus, too. Disney Plus picked up the U.S. distribution, so it was very, very available. You know, where I watched Lackey Marr. Disney Plus. So Le Pupilé is about this Catholic boarding school run by nuns, and it is just, again, playful.

It's a, you know, it's a Christmas movie. It's this sort of like playful thing. It's, you know, it's not unsurious, right? Because it's, you know, set during World War II and whatnot. But it's one of those movies. It's a 37-minute-long short, which usually, to me, the Oscar-nominated shorts, if you're at 37 minutes, I'm like, this is going to be death. But it's so buoyant and interesting, and it just really kind of like the time kind of flies by. I really love this movie.

Did you? I love it, too. It's the type of thing that you're like, chill. Children's orphanage and it's supposed to be sweet and a good time. I don't know. In a time of war? Yeah. But it still has the Elyche touch to it, that it's like it's never actually cloying, but it is quite a lot of cute children.

Stealing cake. It's interesting that she developed it as a short because it does feel like she could have made just a really, really incredible feature out of it. Yes. But nevertheless, it's wonderful. So all of these reasons were why going. into the 2023 Cannes Film Festival. Was this the first year I did the can pool among us and our friends, or was this the second? I think it was the second. Going into this one, I remember being like, I caught this. My first pick, I'm picking Lucky Mara. I've got, this is inside track. This is

going to happen. Everybody else is going for the Todd Haynes or the Jonathan Glazer. And I'm just like, No, bitch. I got this. I'm taking Lucky Mera. I was so sure that it was Aliche's time. And this ends up being just an incredibly strong can competition lineup, where this is, you know, anatomy of a fall wins. But like, zone of interest is in this one. Fallen Leaves, which was hugely popular, ends up being a nominee. No, it was not nominated. It was shortlisted, though. It was shortlisted. It was Golden Globe nominated for acting, which still is going to be, I'm going to never remember that. Kawasmaki is just simply not for me.

Everybody loved Fallen Leaves, just like all the other cowasmokies, and I'm always a little on an island. Yeah. But, Cauther Benhanya's four daughters was this year. Nure, Bilga, Selein's about dry grasses was this year. But then, like, Coriata had mom. and Todd Haynes had May December, and Jonathan Glazer had, as I said, Zone of Interest, VimVendors had perfect days. Brayah had last summer. Right.

And then West Anderson, I think the sign of how strong this can lineup is, is that, like, the two American movies that kind of just get cast to the side a little bit are bangers. at Wes Anderson's Asteroid City and Todd Haynes is May December. You know what I mean? And there's just no room for them because everything else is hitting. Like all of these movies really, really hit. And then Anatomy of a Fall kind of comes from nowhere. Like this was a real surprise, as far as I was concerned. I don't think too many people were looking at this movie as being a heavy hitter

going into the festival, or am I mistaken? There were some, like, you know, rumors around this movie being strong. My fascination leading into this movie was just the presence of Sandra Huller as, you know. Right, because Sondra Huler. Right, the Tony Erdman of it all with Sondra Huller. That's a good point. Also, the Taste of Things aforementioned, the Taste of Things was also at this festival. So a lot going on when you get into which films won what.

So obviously Anatomy of Fall wins the Palm. Zone of Interest wins the Grand Prix, which is second place. Fallen Leaves wins the jury prize, which is third place. Screenplay, which if we want to say fourth place or like honorable mention or whatever goes to Coriata's monster. the acting prizes go to Mirva Dizdar for About Dry Grasses and Koji Yaku Shoe for Perfect Days, one of my favorite performances of that year.

Two great calls if I would do all of the other prizes very differently. I never saw about dry grasses, so I will take your word for it. Who would you have given actor and actress to? I mean, Koji Yuccio, absolutely. with a bullet. I really wish that he had had more of a chance in the actual acting race

in the Oscar race, because he is a fucking legend. And that's a great performance for a movie I like less than you do, but I love that performance. For as much as the Oscars are becoming more and more open to international features and in a lot of the categories, there still does tend to be a lag

in recognizing Asian actors from, you know, in the acting races. You know what I mean? That like Parasite wins best picture doesn't get any acting nominations. We're still moving. We're still got some ways to go.

We have a lot of work to do. Yeah. But, you know, Perfect Days is also, a movie that Neon distributed in the U.S. They also did a qualifying release for that movie. I feel like the intention behind that was to keep that movie within

a certain lane, and I don't know if they ever really went for it in the way that they could have. What was best actor that year that he... Because Leo doesn't get nominated for Killers of the Flower Moon out of competition at this can. So it's... Killian Murphy wins. Paul Giamatti is nominated for holdovers, Jeffrey Wright's nominated for American fiction,

Coleman Domingo for Rustin. Uh-huh. And I'm going to get this without looking it up. It is... Listeners are yelling at us. What is the fifth? As I'm bopping around to the other categories to... Oh, the rest picture nominees, too. Mm-hmm.

Not Dune, not Barbie. Not zone of interest. Not zone of interest. No Christian Friedel is very good in that movie. Not Anatomy of a Fall. In the effort of time, I'm going to look it up. Yeah. All right.

Oh, it is another Best Picture nominee. Shit. Give me one hint. I'm raining it in. Oh, of course. Bradley Cooper. Jesus Christ. I'm raining it in. He's raining it in. He sure was. raining it in. You know, your mother and father, two of the best fucks I've ever had in my life.

So, yeah, I'm raining it in. There are definitely places in that category where I would have happily slotted Koji Akusha instead. I'm not going to take those nominations away from Jeffrey Wright or Paul Giammati, but I feel like, particularly knowing that Coleman Domingo would be nominated the very next year for Sing Sing. I would have quite readily swapped in Koji Kusho 4. But you would remove an acting nominee from a non-best Picture nominated movie.

I don't know if I would do that. I would do it for Cooper first. But also if I, you know, Domingo's next on my list. I am not a maestro hater. I'm not a maestro hater, but I don't think it necessarily needed to be. I can like a movie and not feel like it should be one of the five best acting nominees or the 10, you know, best pictures of the year. That's sort of where I am with Maestro. Anywho, so my question to you then. So obviously, it's no slight to La Cimera that it's not able to sort of surmount any of these movies because like these are all really, really good movies. my sort of, you know, reticence for fallen leaves notwithstanding, I can understand that, like,

that movie had a significant, you know, a fan base. But why do we think it was not able to muster the enthusiasm beyond just sort of simpler, simple, like there's no accounting for taste? But, like, we obviously really like this movie. A lot of other people, I think this was one of those movies that, like, watching this movie evolve on letterbox was very interesting, watching my friends sort of, like, bit by bit, sort of see it on their own time. And the reactions to it were almost always very positive. And do we feel like it's a slow burn of a movie? Do we feel like it's just a movie that, like, does not have a big enough hook to make it above some of these movies.

Well, as far as how it's actually received when, like, most of the people who got to see it in the States got to see it, I definitely think it's a movie that's at an advantage. If people are watching it in March or April, when it's kind of the movie going doldrums and something like this definitely stands out. It feels like an oasis in the sea of, like, forgettable movies, respectfully. That's the thing. that's what helps movies like everything everywhere all at once really kind of stick out and like, you know, register with people is because it's unlike anything else that's just like

open more Oscar movies in March and April. Yeah. And it's also just like the season of spring break movies for the masses. Like that's when you get like Super Mario sequels coming out, you know. So a movie like Lockheed Mara has more room, I think, to impress people. Experience at the movie theater yesterday going to see the drama and realizing as I walked in that like, oh, God, it's a Super Mario opening weekend where it was just like, children. Because first I'm like, we're not all here to see the drama, right? And then I realize it's just like all children. And I was just like, oh, right, Super Mario Brothers. As I texted to you in Katie yesterday, the theater had people in costume as Mario and Luigi and had like a rope line for people to line up to get their pictures.

taken with Mario and Luigi, like a mall Santa. Like, this is the degree to which there is, like, enthusiasm among the kids' set for this movie. It is very important that we get young audiences to theater, having experiences that they enjoy. This is not a complaint. I am just, like, wowed by it, let's say. Listen, those movies are not made for us, and that's great. And that's fine. That's totally fine.

As far as the, you know, disadvantage that this movie would have been at, I do think that because Cannes is already such a marathon, and it's not just the American press, it is kind of the global press that, you know, at the end of the festival, a lot of people go home by that point. So these movies that do, you know, premiere very, very late at Cannes. I think it's hard to argue that they're not at a disadvantage. As far as, you know, getting the press out of those type of premieres, like it's almost like, well, it's happening. But it's not, it's very difficult for those movies to be a part of the conversation. I think Ced of the Sacred Fig is kind of the anomaly there because there was a lot of hype around that movie at Cannes prior to it premiering.

I think that's right. And I think once then you find yourself lagging behind at Cannes, it is tough to catch up, you know, for the rest of the season in terms of, you know, the international features race, the sort of the general sort of priority, like jockeying for priority at a studio like Neon, which that year had anatomy of a fall. What was the neon, the full neon compliment that year? Hold on a second. Perfect Days. I think they had one other. Actually, no, the neon box. My neon box is in the other room or else I could very easily.

Hold on. I'm pulling it up. Okay, thank you. Was there any, this is a side question. Can we think of a, like, and this is, you're going to get annoyed at me because this is me talking about the rarefied experiences. Is there anything quite as effective for a new, indie studio to brand itself than the neon box of screeners for present. It's still really shocking that no one else does it. It's so, it was, but like, especially when neon was new. And you didn't quite, like, you,

you had seen the name, but you weren't quite aware of, like, you know, neon as an entity, that they would just send their screeners out in one box and you saw them all together. Like, 824 will send out their screeners. screeners in mass, and you'll get like a day where all of a sudden you get just like, you get the A24 envelope with like six screeners in it or whatever. But like it's largely they're like the ones that they're really not even pushing. Sure. Yes. And then like later on come the good ones. But the fact that neon puts up would put from the very beginning would put all other stuff in a box, in a box set and send it out. It was so smart because it really allowed that studio in the press's eyes. And of

course, this then filters down into everybody else, this sense of branding, this sense of finding a through line for all of these movies, or else being impressed by, like, the variety of the types of movies that they released in a year. And I don't know, it's, I suppose I am cheerleading for suits when I'm just like, good job neon corporate, but like, good job neon corporate. I'm like, I hope this company lasts forever. I mean, they're doing well. I think they're gonna, yeah, I don't think you have reason to be concerned. Okay, this is their kind of awards slate. Yeah. The Royal Hotel, which is a fall festival premiere, doesn't really get much of response. Anatomy of a fall. Perfect days, which they

do a qualifying release for, also do a qualifying release for robot dreams, which never gets like a real release until I think like six months after the Oscars happen. Talk about a movie that like I would notice people on my letterboxed like filing you know reviews for like months and months and months after and being like this movie was great and I was like yeah dude

like I've been saying it's so good that's also a can pick up as well because it played in like one of the sidebars. One of the sidebars. Eileen, which was a sun dance pickup. I fucking love Eileen. We will be covering Eileen at some point. Maybe that'll be

a Christmas movie this year. Wait, is there Christmas stuff in Eileen? It's set at Christmas. Is it really? Eileen is a Christmas movie. I was distracted by all the other... Ironically like Eileen is a Christmas movie. No, Eileen is set at Christmas. Well, then yes, we have to do Eileen at Christmas. The like big scene,

if I remember correctly, is fucking. Christmas Eve. Phenomenal gets a qualifying release. Origin gets a qualifying release. Surprise Tiff. Surprise Tiff movie Origin. Yeah. Venice as well. Qualifying release is not a good idea for that movie. I understand doing a qualifying release for something like

Perfect Days. For Origin, they should have just put that movie out there. Because by the time it gets its real release, people forgot about it. And then they had Ferrari. Right. A very, very, very late in the year release. I still think Penelope Cruz should have been nominated for supporting actress that year. Good movie. Good movie. Good movie that, I mean, it's the Michael Man thing, right?

You know, is there a ceiling on how broadly popular a Michael Man movie is. ever going to really be because, you know, of the way he makes, of the way he makes movies, that they are not necessarily, um, brought, you know, meant to appeal to a super broad audience, heat notwithstanding. Um, yeah, um, really interesting neon slate that year. Lachimera ends up, I mean, a lot of things were sort of, backseat to Anatomy of the Fall that year. I have been really hankering to watch that movie again recently. It must have been watching Sandra Huller in Project Hell Mary. I was like, oh, I want to watch Anatomy of the Fall again. You don't want to watch Tony Ardman again with me? I don't, in fact,

want to watch Tony Erdman. That was not a movie that I liked, I thought Sandra was great in it, but that was not a movie that connected with me. It is Chris Filebate. What specifically about it? The I mean, I think uncomfortable humor is always, you know, bait for me.

I think the way that that movie is also about, you know, the economic hell that we live in and the way that it's about that. Estranged familial relationships. Sure, sure, sure. Having infinite patience for a woman who slays, even though she doesn't slay, she kind of textually does the opposite of the movie. Please make a letterbox playlist of movies about having infinite patience for a woman who

slays. I would be deeply, deeply interested in where that's going. It's going to be a lot of Upaire. And fair enough. What is Maranade doing? She was supposed to film this year, and I don't know if that happened. Because, you know, I have a lot of friends in various sectors of the film world who are very aware that I, my love for Maranade. And so when I got the news that, like, yes, she's planning to film this year and then, you know, just didn't materialize. Maranade does produce quite a bit as well. Sure, sure, sure. And, you know, all of her films have had significant gaps between them happening.

I think, though, this is about. to be the longest gap she's had. She was a co-producer on sentimental value, among other things this past year. Well, we can hope that you get another Maranade movie very soon. So the Josh O'Connor of it all, to sort of delve back into Joshie. Still unnominated Josh O'Connor.

We assume that that's only a matter of time. And sometimes those assumptions can prove to be false comfort and that doesn't happen. But, like, I have to imagine that it's the right role is constantly. It's extremely conceivable that he'll be in a movie that becomes a best picture frontrunner. Yeah. And then he'll be nominated for it. But, like, you even look at, like, some of the other sort of his, you know, contemporaries. And I don't think you necessarily even need to have.

a best picture frontrunner. I think I keep wanting to call it Deception Day, but it is not, of course. It is Disclosure Day. It's going to be very good for him, obviously. That is going to be a widely seen movie and... A movie where we... About the opening day where we all went to go see Michael Douglas and Demi Moore and a special harassment thriller and Michael Douglas enters cyberspace to Do you think that the folks at Criterion Channel saw the trailer for Disclosure Day and they're like, we got to do a series.

Well, no, they do a series on legal thrillers. So they chose disclosure. The thing about Criterion Channel is just because it's on there, they're not necessarily endorsing a thing as good. It's all anthropological. I understand. I also feel like it's a thing that I need to keep reminding myself is he was on the crown. and the crown was still quite popular when he was on the crown. I had not watched it beyond the first season, but like a lot of people did.

And so he's definitely like very, very recognizable for that. He did win an Emmy for that plus a Golden Globe plus two SAG awards. So that was definitely like the engine that has been powering the Josh O'Connor sort of machine for a while. And I'm the one who's like, oh, the guy for. from God's own country and Emma. Got it. Got it. Got it.

Oh, sorry, I have to edit our outline because I forgot to put the period at the end of Emma. Yeah, you just said that he was in the Gwyneth Paltrow film. He's very clearly in Emma period. In Emma period. He was in Mothering Sunday. Jane Austen's original period drama. Wow. That's a really solidly well.

I can't believe it took me this far out of the Oscar season to make that joke. You really, you fucked up. You should have made that joke during the Oscar season. It would have killed. still haven't seen Mothering Sunday A movie that he is very, very naked in See? I mean, this is why... It's not a good movie. It's not a good movie.

Is it a bad movie or is it just not a good movie? It's just not a good movie. Okay, I'll see it. La Chimera, well, at least the qualifying release for La Cimera was the same year as Lee. The real release for Lee. The real release for Lee. When the nation was wrapped up in Lever.

And then 2024 Challengers, which releases, as we say, the month after La Chimera. And then it was sort of like off to the races for Josh. 900 movies. What is the actual upcoming for Joshua besides disclosure day? Joshi is doing the Spielberg. He's in post-production on this Joel Coen. Owen. With him.

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic for. And Damien Lewis and Leslie Manville. A Gothic mystery unfolds in the atmospheric setting of 1880 Scotland. I'm kind of in for all of that, actually. I should be, but I'm just so... I think some of it is Joel Cohen singular, and some of it is, I got to say, Apple. I'm less deterred by Apple. Original movies.

I am. I am ultimately, I think it's also the fact that I watch as much TV as I do, and Apple has delivered on enough television for me thus far, that I'm like, I don't have a knee-jerk thing against Apple. The other thing is with Joel Cohen solo, for as much as I was not really in the tank for the tragedy of Macbeth, it was not enough for me to think, well, you know, Jill Cohen's probably not great as a solo director, as I am with Ethan Cohen, where I am done with Ethan until further notice. I can't do another highly obnoxious, overly sugared up lesbian outlawed D-dramity. I need to watch Honey Don't. No, you don't. You really don't need to watch Honey Don't. I was softly pro on Tragedy of Macbeth. but in a way that I never think of that movie at all. Never. No, never.

Not that I'm saying I think about drive-away dolls often, but if you're holding a gun to my head and you're saying, what are you watching right now? The Tragedy of Macbeth or Drive-Away Dolls? 100 times out of 100, I'm picking Drive-A-Waway Dolls. I had a good time with Drive-A-Way dolls. I understand why people would find that movie annoying. You know how sometimes when, like,

people accumulate enough sort of moving violations with their car that they have their license taken away from them. That's me with Margaret Qualley's accent in drive-away dolls, where I'm just like, you are, I'm revoking your license. Your license to do what? Indeterminate. But, oh, yeah. And then Honeydon't, I just found to be both obnoxious and also highly forget. which is just not a combination. Can I just say that

in the many things that I just do throughout the day to amuse myself, when Honeydon't came out, though I didn't get to see that yet, I will watch Honey Don't. Every time I would say, and I saw an article for Honey Don't, or I saw a trailer for Honey Don't,

I would just quietly say to myself, out loud, Honey Don't, but in the the cadence of Kristen Stewart saying, they don't in Spencer. Remember the memeification of, They don't. I don't, but that's really funny.

They don't. They don't. It's just like very bottom jaw forward. They don't. Wait, okay, so with the caveat that, like, IMDB sometimes just, like, straight up lies to you, like, they do have listed a pre-production Aliche Rovacher film with

Josh O'Connor, Jesse Buckley, Dakota, Johnson, and Sersher Ronan. And please say the title, because this was recently announced, and I was, when these things get announced now, I'm just like, not real until they say that production has started. But this one,

I need to believe. I need to believe that this will be real. What is the title of the movie, Joe? Three incestuous sisters. By Aliccio Roavace, I need this movie. With screenplay credit for, from Otessa Moschfegg. Mosheg, yes.

And I don't know who Audrey Niffenegger is, but she's also credited as a co-writer, as is Elie Revoche. This sounds fucking awesome.

And if the three incestuous sisters are, in fact, ultimately played by Jesse Buckley, Dakota Johnson, and Sersher Ronan, I'm like the Michelle Visage just like, you know, hooting it up at the judging table meme. I am so excited. So excited.

I'm going to Tessamashvag who wrote Eileen. Yes. But most famously, my year of rest and relaxation. Sure. Which is being turned into a movie? That's going to be one of those things like the bell jar. It's always in discussion to be a movie. What was the latest on the bell jar being made?

Oh, I don't know. I don't. Is it Kristen Stewart? directing with someone. That would make a ton of sense, honestly. That was one of those cases where I'm like, that is not real until they start shooting the movie. It is kind of wild

that we haven't had a Beljar movie adaptation. It keeps you know, just never happening. Just like we're well past this now. I'm surprised that this has not made a comeback yet, but like TikTok any day now. The

myriad Janus Joplin movies that never happen? I know. How do we not have like whispers of that coming back to from the grave? It's true. It's true. To every generation, a new Janice Joplin casting must fall and we haven't had one for this generation yet. But anyway. If we ever do a live show and we do it in like a game show format like I want to do, we're going to have a game round that is just pictures of actresses and people have to say yes or no, this person was one time talked about being in a jammed. That's a great game. That's a fantastic game. Anyway, three incestuous sisters. I'm super

excited if that ever happens. Make it happen. Chris, as you mentioned earlier, this movie had a 25-week run at New York City's IFC Center. Have you ever seen anything at IFC Center in your travels to New York City? When I was there last year, I saw the really bad Liza doc. there. Was it really bad? Yes. I was the youngest person there by like four decades. The classic Lincoln Plaza experience.

Which is exactly how I want to see a Liza doc. That's terrible indefinitely made on like I-movie. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's the Liza doc where she says that no one did drugs at Studio 54. Oh, straight face. And it was also like the like my radicalizing moment that we need a free Liza movement against. against Michael Feinstein.

Yes, that's right. That's right. Oh, so like all the AI shit around her memoir. Hmm. I wonder who signed off on that. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Maybe it's somebody who gets partial credit for the memoir.

I don't know. Do you think he's the one whispering in her ear? Maybe if someone who gets, like, weird, erroneous for no reason throughout certain parts of that book, I don't know. Do you think he was the one whispering in her ear that Lady Gaga meant her harm? No, I think all of that bullshit is. exactly from Michael Feinstein. That's what I mean. Or Michael Feinstein exacerbating it.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, he's the one, he's the worm tongue, uh, whispering, you know, devil's... I don't want to speak ill of Liza, but like, I have a lot of questions about that story. We love Liza. We also recognize that, like, Liza's decision making through the years hasn't been flawless.

Uh, the David Guest period alone. I feel like was a tough run for our girl. Which she's open about... She, quotes, is open about in the book. Anyway, IFC Center is one of those theaters that I have a ton of fondness for. Partially because when I first moved to New York City,

I lived along the F line in Brooklyn, so you take the F and you're essentially just like dumped out right on the doorstep of, of IFC Center if you get off on West Forst Street. So I went there a bunch. It's one of those movie theaters that's shabby, but in a way that I find very charming, which is to say shabby, but I don't recall it ever having a bedbug scandal. They like Frankenstein that facility, to my understanding,

as somebody who loves to live on cinema treasures every once in a while. It's the remnants of the old. Waverly Theater, which like Every once in a while in an old movie, you'll see an old marquee for the Waverly Theater. And so if you ever see that, that's what the IFCC. And the Waverly is like where a lot of the Midnight Circuit really like helped launch a lot of movies. So, and yes, they've parceled it off into several different teeny tiny little theaters.

There are some, there are some rooms in the basement. There are some rooms sort of, you know, you go upstairs. but they also have like a merch table there in addition to I always love a little like you know indie theater that has a merch table it was the weirdly I don't know why this has stuck out of my head beyond the fact that like I'm a snacky boy but like it's the first movie theater I ever remember going to that had bespoke ice cream sandwiches as part of their concessions and I was like hey and they were really good but anyway that was the theater where I would go to see the like Oscar-nominated shorts when they would first start putting them in in

theaters. That was my go-to for that. Whenever I had a job that was when I was like full-time freelance or sort of in-between jobs when I had my afternoons free, one of my favorite things to do was to go to IFC Center on an afternoon in a weekday where it just felt like a complete indulgence in a way that like going to a multiplex never really did. So I have a ton of ton of fondness for IFC Center. So the fact that, and I had left New York City by the time Lackimera had come out. So I had no idea that Lackimera had been on this 25-week run at IFC Center until our friend and former and future guest, Fran Hoffner, wrote about it at Vulture a year and a half ago at the conclusion of it. And it's one of those things that, like, really, and Fran kind of gets to this in her post about it,

really kind of gives you an optimism for just sort of things in general, that like, even with movie theaters in the state that they are and, you know, movie going in the state that it's in, that there are indie theaters where you can just that, and where this is the thing that I find so particularly charming about Lackey, Humera doing so well, is this was a movie, an indie movie that played for that long without a gimmick, without like, like, obviously Josh O'Connor being so popular because of Challengers was a big part of that. But, like, there weren't rowdy screenings and there weren't, like, odd, like, social media, like, prompts for, you know what I mean? It was like, there was, people were just going to check out this movie that they either had seen before and wanted to see again or had like heard good things about and was just feels very um

pure i don't know for some well and like this movie eventually legs out to a million dollar release which is like neon didn't really give this movie any push in any real way so it's like i think what's also heartening about this story is that clearly this movie theater was instrumental and building an audience for this movie? You know, the, like, the ideal that we talk about that, you know, a movie theater can be a, like, hub for growing an audience for a movie. And also, like, it, though it's, you know, we're not talking about a ton of money here, but we are talking about a movie that has a long theatrical life when, you know, the theatrical window for movies are dwindling faster and faster and faster. Exactly. Just the idea that a movie can, like, have its home where people are continually finding it over time running anathema to the idea that, like, nope, you got to hit the ground hard and then if you don't it and put it on VOD. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Part of it is also the fact that, like, an indie theater like IFC doesn't have to make room for, you know, X, Y, and Z movies that are, like, rolling in through.

The other thing that I loved about Fran's article was she had talked to the guy who runs IFC Center, and he mentioned other movies that had these sort of long runs there in recent years. And it's an interesting group of movies. Richard Linkleather's Boyhood was one. Vim Vendors is Pina, the dance documentary about Pina Bosch, Werner Herzog's Cave of Forgotten Dreams, which I may have seen at I. FFC Center, unknowingly, in the midst of a 34-week run for... And I'd be curious if those two documentaries, a huge part of those long runs were keeping it in a theater that could present it in 3D, because those were two 3-D docs. That's very possible. Well, also, Gasper Noes Enter the Void, which...

Oh, boy. Was that also 3D? No, thank God. I cannot imagine watching Enter the Void in 3D. That would kill someone. Yeah. And then Noah Baumbach's Francis Haugh, which I did not see at IFC Center I saw at Lincoln Center at the film festival. But what a lovely place to see Francis Haa, to walk out of Francis Haugh into, because you walk out of IFC Center and you're like in the, like just in the village, right?

You're in the West Village. You're right across from Washington Square Park, essentially. and what a lovely thing. I need to know if the IFC Center ever has programmed Francis Haugh in rep with a midnight screening of puss and boots, because if they haven't, they're missing an opportunity. That's, honestly, that's fun. I would enjoy that. The other great thing about going to a movie at IFC Center is you can just roll out of there and then just walk down half a block, and you're at all of the Greenwich Village gay bars, too. That's wonderful.

Anyway, love that place. The other thing I wanted to talk about with regard to La Cumerra and the Cannes Film Festival is this movie was awarded a prize related to the Palm Dog. The Palm Dog, of course, is the award given it Cannes. I don't know who actually presents this, whether it's officially the festival or whether it's a rogue. It's an independent organization. I imagine so, but I don't know who the organization is. But anyway, gives an award to a film, and I imagine also the dog in the film that gives the most memorable dog performance. Now, we talked about in the Palm Door competition that La Chimera was, you know, faced tough sledding because Anatomy of a Fall was such a, you know, big movie.

Well, once again, in the Palm Dog competition, La Chimera had the unfortunate fate of having to face anatomy of a fall again, and in particular, the iconic performance of Messi as the dog snoop in anatomy of a fall. the, I don't know dog breeds, but the, you know, the inspiration of the Lola Young song, Messy. I don't even know if you're joking. But I imagine you are. Who was Lola Young? You don't know that song? No. Chris, why would I know that song?

It's a bit song. I don't even know who Lola Young is. Is she related to Lola Bunny? No. Okay. Lola Young, she's a British singer. Okay. She wrote the song, Messi.

Okay. Listen to Messi. You'll like that song. I mean, you keep telling me these things, and I have no reason to not believe you. Anyway, Lakimera wins not Palm Dog, but they give La Cimera a kind of side award, because now the Palm Dog is like multiple different awards, where they have like a Palm Dog Grand Prix. And also, so La Cimera wins Mutt Moment. What's the Mutt Moment in La Cimera? Is there just like a dog? I literally don't remember, but I also wouldn't because I'm not like attuned to this kind of thing.

Is it for the panther that's like wrapped around the statue? That's a panther, right? Yeah, but like panthers are cats. Hold on. You know what they should have awarded at this, at this can. They should have awarded the Palm Hot Dog for May December. Oh, yes. That's a missed opportunity, truly.

Okay. Top Rise went to messy, a border collie. And, uh, hold on. Okay. Best Dog Cameo. So the Mutt Moment for Best Dog Cameo was one. Okay, so this article just says by a canine who appears in La Cramer. Well, that's not specific enough for me.

So. Oh, on the two. train. Oh, right. Yes, I love that. Because you have all of the fellow passengers peeking out, and then they go back in their cabins, but the dog stays there. Yes, that little, again, I don't know dog breeds, but the one that looks like a little Scottish terrier, but it's white.

Yes. O Westy? It's not a Westy. It's more. Girl, you know better than me. It's not quite a Westy. I'm looking up a Westy now. It looks like it's, um... It looks like it's got like a beard on its face.

Anyway, regardless, or it might just be a particularly unkempt Westie, maybe. Regardless, best mutt moment for La Cimera. Also notable for La Cimera that year, the Palm Dog Manitarian Award for, I imagine, somebody who did the best work for dogs throughout their career, went to Isabella Rossellini. So, Lacu Marene kind of won two awards. a lot for a lot of different animals. I'm saying, like, this should have been her year. Like, sorry, Conclave.

She has her goats. Also, NBR top five international films in 2023. That qualifying release did qualify Lakimera to show up on that list. Anatomy of a Fall, one best international film, but then Fallen Leaves. The Teachers Lounge, the Zone of Interest, and then the Mexican movie, Totem was also... I love Totem. Totem was one I was really hopeful would be nominated.

That was shortlisted, right? It was shortlisted. Yeah, yeah. All right, anything else you want to say about La Cimera? I love this movie. I'm glad we got to do another, like, another, like, solid masterpiece, again on the pod. Yes, I think that's true. I think it's such a fascinating case.

in terms of talking about where the international feature, like the evolution of that category and the processes of getting movies nominated, I think it's a very interesting movie to talk about. We'll eventually do the taste of things, which I think is also very interesting. I would like to also do perfect days at some point, just because I love that movie so much. I'll make you watch a bunch of Koji Yuku Shoe movies.

Okay. You never caught up to, cure, right? Or did you had to cure? I didn't. I wasn't quite as blown away by it. But like, it's a really good movie. Like, yeah. I fucking love that. It's scariest movie I've ever seen. Yeah, it didn't quite do that for me. But like, yes, I see the appeal for sure. I also wrote down in my notes that the Tomboroli song was better. I just said, sight unseen, better than most of that year's song nominees. And now I'm looking.

Oh, yes. And I'm like, because this was the year of Barbie. So Barbie had what was I made for, and I'm just Ken. But then... Famously, you love what was I made for. But, like, I'm not going to... I'm just Ken is obviously the one I would have picked to win. But, like, what was I made for as a nominee would have been fine with me?

As would have been the Wazahage, a song for my people. Washajah. Sorry, I am a nightmare. from Killers of the Flower Moon. But you could easily lop off the flame and hot Diane Warren song, sorry Diane, and the John Batiste's American Symphony song to make room for the La Cimera Tomboroli song. You could also make room finger quotes for Helene Louvar in Best Cinematography, legend. Yep.

Yep. Frequent collaborator of Anya's Varda. I would have bumped out Napoleon out of, well, no, again, on the, on the, you make a good point that we don't want to just swap out one non-best picture nominee for another in production design. So production design, poor things, Barbie, Killers of the Flower Moon, Oppenheimer. Which one do you bump out for Kimera? for production design? Yeah. If any.

Um, I mean, yeah, Napoleon's probably the choice. Yeah, that's the thing. I'm not a huge poor things fan. Poor things did win, but yes, there's no. But I would probably knock out poor things or maestro from cinematography and put in Helene LeVart. Right, because you want to keep Alconde, um, the Ed Lachman nomination for Alcundi.

And then in costumes, which is the one I would really go for, poor things, Barbie, Killers of the Flower Moon, Napoleon, Oppenheimer, the exact same five as production design. Guys, we got to do better with these craft categories. Costume design, I don't know if I need Oppenheimer. I don't know, those suits were so good. Good suits. Good suits. Barbie costumes are so good. Killers. the flower moon. Again, like, I am going to get rid of Napoleon. But like, chimera in costumes is, I feel like the thing I feel most strongly about. All the, like, fun little outfits the Tombo Roli wear. Yeah. Oh, no, I'm not saying, this is not a one-trick pony. Like, the costumes throughout are really,

really quite good. Yeah, I hit all my notes. Okay, so let's get into the IMDB game. Chris, to talk about it. Every week we end our episode with the IMDB game where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. Any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue.

That's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. That is the IMD game. Chris, would you like to give your clue first or guess first? You gave first last time, so I'll give first this time. Sounds good. Where'd you go? We talked about the potential project, three incestuous sisters, from Alicia Roavace, and Josh O'Connor.

Among those potentially three incestuous potentially sisters is Dakota Johnson, who we have never done on this. We've never done Dakota. Dakota Johnson. 50 shades of gray. Correct. 50 shades darker? Correct. Okay.

I don't think it's going to be 50 Shades Freed. Classic third movie in a series that had petered out to the point where nobody remembers anything about it. All right. I'm going to say Hmm.

Okay. Possibilities include Madam Webb Um, lost daughter, bigger splash, materialists. I'm gonna guess materialists. Materialist is incorrect. Okay.

Why? Just because it's both too recent and nobody really liked it very much? Crazy. I'd say it's probably just too recent. Where did you come down on materialists? I think it's not good, but more... We talked about this on our year-end, I feel like, in our class of, or in our awards. I think it's a mess.

Everybody was, like, offended by its mess. I was not offended by its mess. I just thought it was a mess. I'm going to guess Madam Webb, even though it was a flop. Also incorrect. Your years are 2010 and 2018. 2010. That's even before 21 Jump Street, which I believe was 2012. Oh, social network.

The social network. Right. I was wondering how long it would take you to get there. Okay, 2018. So obviously, we're post-50 shades-z-z. Or at least the first 50 shades. Is it 50 Shades Freed? It's 50 Shades Freed. Motherfuck.

Okay, you say you don't try and fuck with me. This is trying to fuck with me. No, again, I just found somebody we hadn't done. Honestly, after Danny Glover, all bets are off with how we're doing, how we're handling franchises. You cannot deny that when you saw that they also did 50 Shades Freed, that you weren't like, this is going to trip them out. No, I saw it and I was like, well, we had Danny Glover.

So who care? Like, the Danny Glover one will be something I'm upset about for a while. Because Danny Glover deserves better than having all lethal weapon movies and is known for. That's just crazy to me. I agree. Okay. For you, I went down the Josh O'Connor route, but to last year's Wake Up Dead Man, a movie with lots of different actors in it, one of whom

is, I think, a very interesting and not unchallenging person for the IMDB game. So I am going to give you one extra clue to start. So I have chosen Kaylee Spaney from Wake Up Dead Man. And your one clue that I'm going to give you is... You don't have to give me a clue. It is not going to be Bulgare Reveal Your Light, the short film that she... is credited for from 2024. So not...

So you're just making me guess three. No, I'm making you guess four. It's not Bulgary Reveal Your Light. I'm saying that is... You don't bother guessing it because it's not correct. I'm saving you from making the incorrect guess of Bulgary Reveal Your Light. I'm... Now who's playing games?

Me! Because what does that mean? Me. Me. I'm playing games. What does that mean? joke. It's a joke for you. Which means you're trying

to trip me up and make me think, what does he mean? Psych out. What do I do? No, I was trying to be funny, and you doubted my motivation. Alien Romulus. Okay, yes. How is that the first one you're thinking of? Franchise. I never remember that she's in that movie. It is her highest grossing

movie. Yes, and it's the first movie on her known far, known far, known far. Her noun far. But no, I was just like, I was watching it, I'm like, nobody remembers that she's in that movie, even though she's the lead. I remember because I walked out of that theater, really pissed off at how much I hated that movie. Yes. It is a terrible movie. With like some things going for it, that it entirely squanders. And any movie with David Johnson in it, I am on board at its face.

Was that the first thing that he jumped out for? No, I forget the first thing, but like the one where I like locked into David Johnson is Rylane. Oh, I've never seen, I still have never seen Rylane. Okay, that makes sense. It's like an hour and 15 minutes. Like, give yourself the treat of watching Rylane. Okay, Kaylee Spaney, Priscilla. Oh, he was also on industry.

That probably also is a thing where like, sometimes when an actor is like all of a sudden, like everybody knows who this person is. I'm like, why? And it's like, oh, they were an industry. Okay, got it. What was your second guess? Sorry? That's me with Brugerton.

I said Priscilla. Correct. Civil War. Correct. Okay, so here's where we get to... And I have no wrong guesses. And you have no wrong guesses. And you're saying it's not some bulgary commercial.

It's not a bulgary commercial, so don't even try it. What do you mean? But... I just looked at her filmography, and the same... second thing on her filmography, chronologically, is a bulgarie ad, and I'm like, that's funny. So I'm going to make a joke about it. Do not read into it. It's not anything to do with the actual game. You've got game brain. Like, I was just making a dumb fucking statement about the bulgarie thing. Fine. Wake up dead, man. No, it is not wake up dead. I figured. But now I

have to remember other Kaylee Spaney movies. That's the challenge. Because one of the things about Kaylee Spaney is she works with a lot of big directors Like so far Very quickly I will admit I'm not the hugest Kaylee Spaney fan But I could be convinced eventually Part of it is that she keeps playing characters

Who I'm just like Who are like Cyphers Who are like Gen Z Cyphers Who I'm just like shut the fuck up this is mostly about Civil War. But, God, I hated her character. I mean, that was me about almost everything in Civil War. That was not Kirsten, Dunn speaking.

I liked a lot of, a lot. And Stephen McKinley-Henderson. I liked a good bit of Civil War, even though ultimately flawed in a way that is interesting to talk about, I think, is where I come down with Civil War. It's a real Nothing Burger that has, like, no self-awareness that it is a nothing-burger. I would, that's, I don't agree. I don't think it's a Nothing Burger. I think it's a Something Burger.

Okay. Gosh. Man, I should get... You know what I got the other day? I shouldn't admit this. I got a Whopper because they was intrigued by Burger King's commercials that they were like... They got you. They got you.

You made fun of them, but they made it... Can I say? It was probably the best whopper I've had in many, many years. So maybe they're not lying. Anyway, continue. I'm really... Wasn't she in like a comedy, romantic comedy? Because that's the other thing.

about Kaylee Spaney is part of the thing that's hard to track Kaylee Spani as she does do very different movies. Oh God, what am I not remembering? I don't know. Because they also came on, like, back to back to back. I'm just going to guess something that I know is wrong, just so I can get the year.

That the year is not going to help, because it's all going to be, like, post-COVID. I truly don't, can't think of anything at this point. It's too bad I didn't give you a joke answer that would allow you to burn. Fine, bulgary, whatever. Reveal your light? Yes, no, wrong. So strike two.

So now you're year. See? See? It all comes around. Your year's 2018. Okay, so pre-COVID. She would be pretty young at this point. 2018.

What, like, crap. that I don't like she's in like it's probably some bad horror movie or some bad franchise movie it's not that it's neither of those things it's a movie that we could we have we could do on this had Oscar buzz but we have avoided because of a certain cast member who we'd rather not talk about at the moment Army Hammer yes in 2018 it's not the man from uncle it's no it's not the man from uncle rules it does rule yes what was right after call me by your name um um Kaylee I believe plays the daughter of the main character in this movie and he's the main character no she played his daughter he's not the main character but I think but she would have been

his daughter but let me let me look it up um or else she's the main character sister. What the hell was he in? And it was a movie we could conceivably do. Interesting. It's a movie that spans many years, which is sort of how

the daughter thing comes into it. Not Jay Edgar. Army Hammer was in. Maybe the brain is just not working today. Not Jay Edgar, but like not too far away from from that, like, subject-wise.

So it's a biopic. It is in the kind of political, legal realm. Interesting. It is about a beloved figure who, I don't want to oversell this angle, but, like, became somewhat less beloved by, sticking around too long. Oh. Oh, God.

Is it Vice? No. Interesting that you went there, even though Kaylee Spaney is in Vice. She's not... Allison Pittle is the lesbian daughter, right? Yes. So that's really not what we think about with Tick Cheney. It's not that he stuck around too long.

It's that he would... here at all. Kaylee Spaney plays 17-year-old Lynn Cheney. So it's 17-year-old Amy Adams. In Vice. Yes.

Interesting. Wow. So she was in Vice and something like Vice. I wouldn't call Dick Cheney a beloved political figure who became slightly less beloved. Exactly. I just, that was just a 2018 political movie. No, it's kind of amazing that like how much, like,

coincidentally, she is. else I'm in that movie. So, no, a beloved, like, on T-shirts and... Oh, she's the... It's on the basis of sex. It's on the basis of sex.

It is the Ruth Bader Ginsburg biopic on the basis of sex where Kaylee Spaney plays their ultimately... Wait, is she a lesbian in that? I don't know. Did R.B.G. have a lesbian daughter? No, because she's married. She's been married to a man.

since 1981, so if she is a lesbian, then she's keeping it locked down. That woman is 70 years old right now. A scene in that movie where Felicity Jones is like, you know, one day you'll be able to marry your wife. You know, that's the kind of movie that that is. Maybe they, like, did that for the movie, and they're like, we need to give this movie, we need to give it one more, a little bit of josh. It's like, let's make her daughter a lesbian.

That's the scene in a different 2018 movie, or maybe that was 2019, Battle of the Sexes, when Alan Cummings is like, you know, one day people will eventually be able to get gay married. You know, one day lesbians will be able to smoke cigarettes and openly and legally. All I, like, my first memory of Battle of the Sexes is those Virginia Slim cigarettes. Anyway, all right, well done. Good job. You did it. You crazy son of a bitch, you did it. That is our episode, folks. If you want more of this at Oscar Buzz, you can and should check out the Tumblr at this hadoscurbuzz.tumptor.com. You should also absolutely check out and subscribe to our Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz.

Chris is really keeping it populated with teases, with links, with photos, with carousels and whatnot. As somebody who is influencer, behavior averse. I try to just at least keep the lights on it. You are doing a very good job, and I appreciate it. Don't expect us to be doing reels. We are not a video podcast. We never will be. Chris is speaking in declarative sentences. I will do whatever it takes to keep this a going concern. Chris, we're going. We're not going to be a video podcast. I also, listen. Listen, I like money. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterboxed and Blue Sky-ish for

Chris F-E-I-L. I can be found, Letterboxed and Blue Sky at Joe Reed. It's spelled R-E-I-D. I am also at Vulture all the time, doing all the stuff and enjoying the heck out of it. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple,

podcast, wherever else you get podcasts. A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So put down that foolish divining rod for a minute. We didn't talk about the divining rod. The fact that there have been two movies in the last three years that have had major scenes with people wandering around with a divining rod is very interesting. I'm talking about the testament of Anne Lee. Anyway, put down that foolish defining rod for a minute and write something nice about us. That is all for this week. But we hope you'll be back next week for more. Thank you.