This Had Oscar Buzz - 389 – The Manchurian Candidate

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

If you make a remake to a cinema classic (and Oscar nominee), chances are the buzz starts there. But in revamping The Manchurian Candidate to the post-9/11 culture, Oscar winning director also added the pedigree of recent winner Denzel Washington and then-recent nomination record breaker Meryl Streep, the buzz multiplied. But this version of a … Continue reading "389 – The Manchurian Candidate"

No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Bill and... I'm from Canada water. Dick Poop. Fund the shareholders. In Manchurian Global, you would find former presidents, supposed kings. Yeah, I get it. They're big, they're huge.

And you bring me rumors and conjecture. I started with nightmares. Rumors is conjectures. That's a giant leap forward. Somebody got into our heads. Neurons got, got exposed, and circuits got rewired. I think you should leave. Oh. What are you doing?

I got to find out what's going to happen, where it's going to happen. He's delusional. You're watching. You swore to me that this was fail-safe, no leaks, no glitches. I will do whatever is necessary to protect my son. We're going to stop this and take them out. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that was not made for human eyes. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations,

But for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my Joe Reed, Sergeant Joseph Reed, Joseph Catholicism, Reed. Joe Reed. Can we talk about that for half a second? Joe, what is your sleeper cell activation phrase? Well, first of all, I'm not going to tell you.

I'm not going to put that power in your hands. That would be terrifying. Can I tell you mine? I mean, I have several, but like the one that really just like, it just like turned me into another person, turned me into a cyborg. What? Celine Dion Paris concert dates. That activated you? I mean, I feel like I told you.

We've had this conversation, but not on mic. Listeners, I need you to know. If I was in a different circumstance in life, like, overworked, and, like, we just bought a home. I was going to say if you had the kind of free income that a lot of these folks on Instagram seem to have. I would be there. I would be there. Sure. I would be.

I would be. You would be one of those obnoxious people who are like, well, I just had to go to Paris to see Celine. I would. I would. and I would be obnoxious about it. I would not be ashamed to be obnoxious about it. On your current FOMO Mount Rushmore, what do you put along with that and Katz the Jellicle Ball?

But see, it would be... See, like, Katz the Jellicle Ball is like the real, like, attainable thing that it's like, I probably could just like throw caution to the wind and do that, but it would be irreresponsible. Like, it's just like, well, that's not what I need to be focusing on in my life right now. Would you be able to tack it on? I'm just desperate to go. Would you be able to tack it on to, like, just before TIFs, since you're going to have to change planes in New York anyway?

I mean, usually I take the direct flight. Right. But I know we've talked about... After that time, I lost my luggage. I take the direct flight. Sure. But I know that those can be cumbersome financially these days. I mean, lodging's expensive, et cetera.

Everything's expensive, unfortunately. Everything's expensive. Everything's expensive. But yes, I'm desperate to see the Jellica Ball and various other theatrical engagements currently happening in the city of New York. Back to the sleeper cell activation phase, though. Is that not the fucking dumbest sleeper cell activation phase you've ever seen? The person's name. Three iterations of your own fucking name.

Right. Like, what are the chances? Like, this guy's going to get activated at the DMV or whatever, and it's going to be just chaos. But it is like a wide network conspiracy. So you can't have all of these guys have the same sleeper cell activation phrase. They're not really a sleeper cell. It's just like an activation phrase. Right.

But you know, it's a phrase. But the whole point of these phrases are they're supposed to be like unusual enough that somebody couldn't accidentally stumble their way into like just saying it. But it's reasonable enough to be like, Leif Schreiber and Denzel Washington could be in the same room. We can't give them the same sleeper cell activation phrase. That's fair. So what you're saying is it's kind of like one of those things where it's just like, your login and password is your first name, last name. And just like, do with that what you will. And it's just like, okay. Merrill sleep or cell activation phrase is not three iterations of her own name. It's the name

of the three characters she played that won her Oscars. It's just Cher saying Mary Louise Streep three times. What is that? It is Kramer, Sophie, and then Margaret Beelzebub Thatcher. Yeah. Yeah, that's the final one. Honestly, Margaret Thatcher's full Christian name being somebody's last stage of their of their fascist sleeper cell activation.

Like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. TBAH. I have to admit, I've never seen the original Manchurian candidate. Nor I. Okay. Not that I remember anything about it. I actually remembered shockingly little of this movie because I know I've at least seen clips of Angela Lansbury in the original.

Yeah. I'm not, I am not super well-versed in Frankenheimer, though I would like to be, because the Frankenheimer's that I, like, have seen. have seen, I know that I like. Yeah. So in the original, Angela Lansberry is the Eleanor Shaw. She's the Merrill character. Frank Sinatra is the Denzel. Lawrence Harvey was the Leif Schreiber.

Janet Lee was the Kimberly Elise. That's about as far as I've got. It's a well-remembered movie, though, in terms of just like not only for being a movie that a lot of people really liked back in the day, but also a movie that is very kind of emblematic of Cold War paranoia and, you know, this idea that there could be, you know, a sleeper activation from, you know, representatives of Red China and the Soviet Union and they could, you know, activate. Lurking among us. Not only lurking among us, but lurking among our political class. Our political climate, the elite, you know, that they could ultimately be a Trojan horse for oppositional forces into our government. And one of the things that I find somewhat fascinating about this remake is that it's a remake of something that is so incredibly

sort of tethered to that particular, you know, Cold War 1960s, you know, moment in American political history. And then the remake, as I watch it now, is so incredibly tied to 2004 era. You know, we've been in, you know, these wars in the Middle East for a few years now. discontent is starting to emerge. You're seeing a political class that is needing to kind of double down in order to maintain the commitment to this war. And so that's kind of reflected in, you know, the characters and the ways in which this story is now grafted onto a still fairly fuzzy present day, right?

They never exactly say who, you know, the political party is, even though we can all really heavily infer that it's the, you know, it's the Republicans. But, um... I mean, Merrill Streep Albaugh looks directly into the camera multiple times and says from both sides of the aisle. Because like we're not supposed to understand, you know, it's a little too winking in not telling us what political parties we're talking about. I don't even think it's winking. I just think it's tentative. I think it's, you know, they don't want to be too specific because they don't want to, you know, throw their audiences off as they're watching, throw the audience off as you're watching it or whatever.

And it ultimately proves irrelevant what political party this is when you're talking about an outside corporation trying to have their own candidate, you know. I also kind of felt like on this watch of the movie that 2004 was a weird time to try to do this type of paranoia if it's trying to be winking to, you know, anti-Bush sentiments, which a few weeks ago when we did Jarhead, I feel like I erroneously said that that movie was the first, you know, mainstream movie to really not, to be one of these movies that was like talking about the war in Iraq and like anti-Bush sentiment. Yeah.

And this movie, I think, is the first one to be like of the ilk of anti-Bush, even though it's not willing to say to ascribe any political party to these characters. This is, I think, the one. And that's why it sounds a little weird. I think if this movie's made a year later, I think it's probably a little bit more free to be specific, because this movie comes out... Summer of 2004. Right.

And so it's like just several months ahead of the 2004 election, and it wasn't until after that election that public opinion started to... turn on Bush. And I just, I have, you know, there's some interesting parallels to draw, you know, with some of the things that, that, you know, are a part of this movie's plot that we can get into on the other side of the plot description. But to your point, like, definitely widespread public perception, because I remember being like the one anti-Bush kid in my classroom. That it was just like, you know, there was definitely at the time, I mean, I'm saying this. as someone who would have been a young person at that time. It was very much like, but we're at war, and you have to rally your support around the president.

And I think in the immediate post-9-11, there was a lot of that, even like some dancing around that from like the lefties. But like you have Merrill Streep in this movie. And Merrill Streep was definitely like out there not pulling any punches and definitely not throwing any support behind the Bush regime. Right. But even still, I think you had a lot of eggshell walking in the, terms of, you know, again, we talked about this when we talked about Jarhead, this idea of

you have, you know, you're against the war, but you're not against the troops, and you're, you know, you're against the war, but that doesn't mean that you don't love your country and this kind of thing, because the- You're against the war, but that's not saying that you are, you know, flying in the face of 9-11, you know? Right, right, because the Bush regime had very sort of effectively harnessed that post-9-11 sentiment and harnessed kind of the lessons of, you know, Vietnam era and post-Vietnam America,

this idea that you can't be, you know, you can't be opposed to the war and still be a legitimate American, right? That being opposed to the war means you don't support our country, that just the fact, I remember the argument was made with, like, a straight face by many and most people on the right,

this idea that just like, just, you know, carrying on a debate about whether we should be in this war is harmful to troop morale and is thus dangerous to the well-being of our troops. And you yourself are anti-American. Right, right. I don't think we see the ramifications of that type of rhetoric in the public sphere anymore. It's, I mean, like, yeah. And it made me, you know, makes me feel. crazy because I remember being the lefty high schooler that's like, when you talk to people like this, this is what's going to happen afterward, and then here we are. Yeah, I was thankfully

out of high school during this particular era because I would have probably been, I certainly, I was, I was, you know, the lefty, you know, arguing my case over, you know, pre-Iraq war, pre-9-11 stuff. Arguing with the priests in high school. Once again, your vision of my high school is is very, very different than the reality. Down to the point where I think that your middle name is Catholicism. Yeah, yeah. I noticed that. I kind of let it fly.

I think I know what your middle name is, but I didn't know if you don't want your full government on Mike. So the various people who have decided they hate me can go after. Hey, listen, that's my activation phase. That's my activation phase. Don't your phrase. Don't do that. So anyway, yeah, I think it's, I mean, maybe I can just sort of get into, you know, the whole idea of it here, because teetering on this, the precipice of this 2004 election, I think one of the things that struck me most, most blatantly watching the Manchurian candidate was this idea that has long been,

in, you know, in political fiction or in sort of like speculative fiction, this idea that both parties are forever looking for that perfect military candidate, that perfect candidate who was a war hero, right? That, you know, if the Democrats or the Republicans or whoever could ever sort of like, you know, get their hands on a, you know, very presentable, you know, a telegenic, young and, you know, politically kind of malleable war hero, that that's kind of the golden goose of politics. And I think that was this ideal that had been in place since probably post-World War II. And obviously, we've had, you know, folks like Eisenhower being president, whatever, but Eisenhower by that point was, you know, older and was a general. So he

was already sort of like in the political sphere. But I think there's been this idea of a, you know, if the Democrats could only, you know, harness the, you know, the folks who could make a dent in, you know, the folks who vote purely on who they think is the better president for the military, right? Because, you know, that's overwhelmingly, uh, Republicans for reasons we're not even going to get into here because it'll be, you know, too involved. Um, but, I think one of the things about the 2004 election was it kind of disabused that notion forever. I think seeing John Kerry getting swift-sift-boated was maybe the nail in the coffin for this idea that a, you know, a military veteran candidate would be bulletproof, no pun intended,

would be, you know, kind of a, you know, they would never question that person's bona fide. on matters of foreign policy or whatever. And it's like, no, they'll, you know, undermine, you know, someone just the same. And then in 08, that's kind of underlined by the fact that, like, you know, the Republicans run John McCain against Obama. And it's just like, yeah, like military veteran or not, you know, a less popular candidate's going to get beat by a more popular candidate. And, you know, there's just, you know, not much you can do.

And so, like, we've kind of. lost that archetype now. Like, I remember scandal kind of presented that in a way, but like scandal always sort of like existed, you know, two universes away from where ours is anyway. But I think we've lost that archetype of this golden boy war hero candidate. You don't really ever see that presented in fiction very much anymore. I mean, I kind of feel like, you know, we've also kind of lost political thrillers in a way in, in this way that would be at like that type of scale, those type of characters. Sure, sure, sure.

So that kind of makes sense. I mean, like, and also we don't have things set in the White House because everything would just seem, even if it was bad, it would seem too, it would seem like too much of a fantasy to see that. But I remember back in even like the Clinton era where like this idea that Clinton avoided military service. was seen as this thing that was going to sink the Clinton campaign, and that never happened. And of course, it's all mutable, because then you have George W. Mother fucking Bush. Right, right.

And then it stays mutable, too, because this idea that the right is, you know, so supportive of the troops, you don't see that play out in Trump's policies and Trump's... Well, and, like, Trump, of course... And the shit that comes out of his mouth. Right. And Trump, you know, dodged military service as much as Clinton ever did, right? And, you know, but, like, what was the thing? that got 60 minutes in trouble with George W. Bush was trying to prove that he had, you know, dodged his, you know, his military service or whatever when ultimately nobody cared. You know what I mean?

Like ultimately nobody cares about that. Nobody, that is not a requirement anymore. That is not a litmus test for anybody running for president anymore. In part because now certainly, you could never have a Gulf War or a, you know, Iraq War veteran running for president now, if only because that war has been so, you know, definitively stamped as a folly and a failure, you know what I mean? That, like, Trump partially won on kicking dirt on the grave of the, you know, of the Bush war, you know, record or whatever. Like, that's how he got the Republican nomination in the first place. So, Manchurian candidate feels like an artifact of a, like, two, two eras at minimum ago, politically. Artifact is a great word.

Because this, like, retrofit, this, like, idea of the retrofit. And that creating paranoia feels almost, like, niche now to the point where I'm just trying to, I'm struggling the whole time I'm watching this movie of, like, how was that? this all that politically relevant in 04? Other than also this idea that like well Bush didn't really run anything in there and it was all Karl Rove

and it was all this shadow organization behind Bush doing all of it which like is any of that like true? Who cares at this point? Well, but I think I think in general I think this idea that there would be this big you know, global, multinational corporation that, you know, it funds, you know, as you say, on both sides of the aisle or whatever, but like, that, you know, puts these figures in place

to run. It's very, you know, trilateral commission. It's very, you know, the Freemasons run the country and that kind of a thing. And the, like, the corporate thing about this movie, the, like, corporate overlord thing about this movie wasn't really as much of the conversation as it is now. So I'm watching this movie on this rewatch and thinking, this would be so much more relevant to do now than it would have been 20 years ago. But I also think because it's missing some of that connected thread, at least for me, that it doesn't make watching this movie relevant. It just makes the idea of a remake more relevant than it was 20 years ago. Don't you think also, though, that Trump has kind of killed this idea?

of this idea of political conspiracy thrillers in the way that, like, the joke I always make is, like, you know there is no, there was never a deep state because if there was a deep state, there's no way Trump would still be alive right now. And it's just like, I, you, you don't need to have political conspiracy theories. Like, it, they, you just walk right in the front fucking door. And, you know, you, you know, you get elected, plain, you know, a, you know, showing all your awfulness, you know, playing on front street. Yeah, there's no hidden strings either. You know, what is just pure evil is just pure evil. Right. What is, you know, Ungovernmental. Project 2025 was, like, published and, like, distributed to the entire electorate in 2024, and people voted for him anyway, because it's, like, ultimately, we also kind of,

as a country, not as a, well, maybe, kind of OD'd on conspiracy to the point where we just sort of, we saw it everywhere, so then it was nowhere, you know what I mean, where everybody saw conspiracies in literally everything from vaccines to, you know, um, the prosecutions of crimes to, uh, you know, I don't know, name a Netflix documentary that, you know, promoted conspiracy theories or, um, I don't know. So. A lot of this stuff is kind of lost its luster, I'll say. And I wouldn't say that I ever really loved this movie, and I thought a rewatch would make me like it more. I love Jonathan Demi so much.

I do, too. It doesn't have the kind of Demi, it doesn't feel, it doesn't really feel like a Jonathan Demi movie to me. It doesn't have those moments of just like elevation a little bit. I don't know. It feels a little Edward Zwicky to me. in that way. It's a little like pinned up.

Like it's a little stiff. Like the script is too stiff for Demi to do the Demi thing. You know what I enjoyed though? Life populating this thing. You know what I enjoyed that a lot of people back in the day were kind of resistant to?

The Angels and America poster in Kimberly Elise's apartment. No, I didn't even see that. Oh, that's amazing. No, it's Merrill's performance. I think if, you know... Here's why we're doing this episode this week. Meryl is back in theaters.

Merrill's back in theaters. I do think Meryl's good at this. Meryl's definitely better in this than she is for some of her other Oscar nominations. So she was kind of on the precipice of getting a nomination for this. We'll go into that. We'll get into kind of the... Everything of it all. I certainly don't want to get into the Oscar conversation

until we're on the other side of the plot description. Yeah, absolutely. First, unless you're counting hoppers. Devil Wears Prada, first movie that Merrill has been in since pre-COVID. Pre-COVID. It's let them all talk, right? That was the last one. Well, I mean, that wasn't in theaters.

I mean, we love that movie, obviously. But, like, if you want to talk about Merrill's theatrical life, it has been little women. Wow. Little women was the last movie she was in that was in theaters. Wow, that's a very long time. That's a very long time. And of course, she had only murders in the building. She's honestly really good on only murders in the building.

I was going to make a crack about Big Little Lies and how much I hate that season. But she's great on Only Murderers in the building. You know what's crazy? Is that first scene that she has with Reese Witherspoon is just like, holy shit, this is going to be a top-tier Merrill performance. Yes. And then the rest of it is just like not good. The problem was that season didn't have anything for Reese's character to do. And so, like, that's one of the biggest problems of that.

That season became almost entirely about Nicole Kidman versus Merrill Streep. And kind of, like, what's going on with Zoe Kravitz? Kind of a thing. And, like, that was basically it. I would really like to know. And no one will ever talk about it. But I would like to know what happened. Because, like, they yanked Andrea Arnold off of it.

got Jean-Marc-Faile back into the show. That, to me, feels kind of like, pretty explicable to me. It was just like Andrea Arnold was trying to do something a little more sort of outrageous with it, or a little bit more alt-o-ist with it. An Andrea Arnold type of thing, which, like, why would you hire Andrea Arnold to do anything but the Andrea Arnold thing? This is the thing. I feel like sometimes they try to make, like, they out-cool themselves. in this way, where it's just like, wouldn't it be cool if we got, you know, Lord and Miller to do a Star Wars movie? And it's like, sure, do you want Lord and Miller to do a Star Wars movie, though?

Or do you just want to say you had Lord and Miller do a Star Wars movie? Like, you want to just slap their names on the movie because it sounds like, you know, it's, you know, youthful and cool and interesting. And it's from the people who brought you the Lego movie. Yeah. I just guess I want I want to know how that impacted the story, because there's such, like, egregious story issues going on in season. Well, this is kind of also what happens when the first season is based on a book, and the second season is based on fuck all. And it's just like, oh, okay. So we're just, like, working completely without a net. Yeah.

Are you excited to see Merrill back in a movie? I know the answer to this question, but talk about it. In the abstract, absolutely. I love Merrill. I will always love Merrill. Even when Merrill is technically bad, I still love watching Merrill. I have never not enjoyed watching a Merrill Street performance. And I think Manuring candidates a really good example of that. We're like, no, this is not her most subtle of performances, but she's delivering something in the way of star power and gravitas that like most, you know, you're not going to get out of, you know, too many other people. Now, do I think the devil wears Prada based on everything I've seen of

it looks good? No, I don't. I, in fact, think the opposite. I think if that turns out to be good. It's gotten better. Has it? If that turns out to be a good movie, I was like, I don't know. If that turns out to be a good movie, I will be very pleasantly surprised. I'm certainly going to see it. And I will be rooting for it to be good. But I am not expecting that to be the case. I'm expecting to have a good time. It's like, it is literally going to be, even though I'll still be working right after I go see that movie, you have to go and file about it. But it's like the first thing I get to do to relax for myself.

And yet it is also work. But I'm like, it's the first thing in this long haul that I get to do to just have something nice. So I'm excited for that. That's fun. Do we think, like, some of the online stuff, the online reactions that I've seen, speculation. Oh, I haven't seen. Do we think that they're giving Miranda Priestley dementia? Oh, no.

I don't. I sure hope that that's just a weird thing that's happening in the trailers, and that's not the story, how Miranda can't remember anything. I think it's that. And I think it's also, I think it was Kevin O'Keefe who mentioned this to me, but I'm not entirely positive. who mentioned that there's like a thing about like in one of the you know whether it's the inferno or whatever one of those you know dante uh things about the devil that one of the characteristics of the devil when you get down to one of the levels or whatever is that the devil can never remember um who anybody is or something like that i don't know i don't know what exactly that is i'm sort of talking out of my ass here i mean technically miranda never really knew I'm calling her by the singular first name. Like Miranda Priestley is among us as a living, breathing person. And in some way, she is.

Miranda Priestley never did remember who anyone was. That's what Andy and Emily were supposed to be doing. Like at events, they're like, this is this person, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I guess it's, you know. Yeah, I'm cautious. I'm guarding myself. I don't know. I do feel like it is a mortal lock that they're going to give Anne Hathaway.

a equivalent to the Surreulian speech, that she is going to ultimately tell some clueless nobody or whatever. Why? What creates countless jobs? Something. Something to, like, show that, like, she knows and respects what Miranda's business is or something. I don't know.

I don't know, man. Will Emily Blunt get hit by another car and then woof down a thing of yogurt? Emily Blunt, here's the thing. Emily Blunt is so good in The Devil Wares Prada, was absolutely worthy of getting an Oscar nomination for that movie and did not get one. And now this thing is coming around at maybe like a moment where everybody is kind of, I don't want to say like over her, but like the reserves of goodwill are not

well stocked for her at the moment. I think after the smashing machine, I think even like she's the one part of the Oppenheimer cast who like people were like, I guess she got nominated, but like people weren't super thrilled. I don't know. Do you get that sense to that like, there's not a ton of, like, Emily Blunt's so good out there right now. Well, I mean, who knows? I mean, like, this is like a signature role for her, so maybe that'll turn around.

I think it's also just some of the projects that she's into, like, Oppenheimer excluded. People hated Smashing Machine. I think the well has soured a bit on the Quiet Place movies. Myself, guilty. Yeah, I think that's maybe more of the U thing, but, like, I, don't know. Maybe it's less of a me thing. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe I like, because I like the second one, maybe more than most people. Everybody, have fun going with your girls' gays and days to Devil Wears Prada 2 this weekend. In the meantime, Joe, before we get into the plot

description, would you like to tell the listeners about our Patreon? Yes, we have a Patreon. We have had one for quite a while. It is called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. It will cost you only $5 a month. And for that $5, you will get to both. bonus episodes every month. The first one, which we drop on the first Friday of every month, is called an exception. That is a, we talk about a movie, just like we do here on regular this had Oscar buzz, except we, on flagship, this had Oscar buzz, do not allow ourselves to discuss movies that have gotten any kinds of Oscar nominations whatsoever, whereas an exception is just that. It is a movie that has great, that had great, a movie that had great Oscar expectations,

but disappointing results, even though it might have gotten a nomination or two, such as perhaps Brian De Palma's The Black Dahlia, which was one such movie that we discussed last month. And other films that we have talked about in that particular vein include Nicholas Winding Refins' Drive, Rob Reiner's When Harry Met Sally, Tim Burton's Big Fish, Ridley Scott's House of Gucci, Cameron Crows Vindola Sky, etc, etc. etc, et cetera, et cetera. What Merrill stuff do we have in there that we've talked about? We've talked about.

What Merrill movies have we done on the Patreon? Yeah, actually, that's an interesting question. Maybe none? Hmm? Meryl gets it done, man. Marl... Yes, she does. No, no, no, you know, either it's all or nothing for Merrill. It's either zero Oscar nominations or it's a giant success. So our second episode that we release every month is called an excursion, which is not about a movie per se, but about a corner of awards or Oscars or movie-going ephemera that we really like, including things like the old Golden Globe Awards ceremonies, old MTV award ceremonies, entertainment weekly fall previews, Hollywood Reporter, roundtables. Perhaps could I interest you in a three-hour spectacular on the best original song category from the 1990s?

Sure I can. It was so fun. This is one of the best excursion episodes we've done, I think. It is a meal. It is a full meal, belly up to the bar, and, you know, dig in. Tuck your napkin underneath your collar. Get a bowl to put... I imagine this is a...

It's a bowl of chicken wings in my... imagination. So you just want to have like a bowl to put the bones in, a lot of napkins because you'll be all full of sauce. It's a bowl of 90s snacks. It's a pack of gushers. Gushers. It's, um, uh, what's a 90s? Like, soda. It's like a Jones soda. Code Red, Mountain Dew Code Red. I feel like was, no, that was maybe more aughts coded. What was a 90s? I guess a Jones Westin. It's a case full of Crystal Pepsi. And, um, Dunkeroo. Were Dunkeroo's 90s? It's a Zima.

It's a Zima. There you go. It's definitely a Zima. Were Dunkeroo's 90s or were Dunkeroo's Outs? Dunkeroo's were 90s because I had those as a kid. Did you? They were kind of gross. I never had them.

I remember not liking them as a kid. I didn't get the appeal. I didn't get the appeal at all. Although what did that, what did, I can't remember now what exactly the brand name was, but there were Dunkeroo's-esque in like form and function where you had the little packet that was like, little breadsticks in one compartment and like cheese like you know spreadable cheese in the other. Also hated that cheese. But now they do that with like Nutella, but then the pretzels always break so it's a waste of your time. But the pretzels always do break. Just like here's what I'm going to say to anybody who wants to buy one of those.

Because I am somebody who has on occasion fallen victim to the I'm a 7-Eleven and I want to just grab a snack and I'm like, ooh, little Nutella breadsticks things. Just bite the bullet and buy a jar of Nutella and something to dip in it, and you will be much, much happier. It's a more spreadable Nutella. Take it from your old pal, Joe. I've been called worse. What? Something to dip in your Nutella? No, I'm a more spreadable Nutella. Wrap up talking about the Patreon. We can't get distracted by snack. To sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz, Turbulent, Brilliant, so you can go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz.

Joseph, the Manchurian candidate. A Man Churian candidate. That's me if I ever see Leif Schreiber. A man, Churion candidate. That's you bathing, Leif Schreiber. And you're also his mother. The Man, Churion candidate, directed by Jonathan Demi, who we love, will get into it. Written by Daniel Pine and Dean George Garris, based on the novel by Richard Condon,

and George Axelrod's previous screenplay from the film from the 60s starring Denzel Washington, Merrill Streep, Leif Schreiber, Jeffrey Wright, Kimberly Alise, John Voight, Ted Levine, Bruno Gans, Miguel Ferre Dean Stockwell, Vera Farmingo,

Yvano, Obabaptune, Ann Dowd, and Anthony Mackey. Boy, Blinkin, you'll miss And Dowd, but she is there. Same thing with Pablo Schreiber. Also, he's the other one besides Anthony Mackey, who gets knocked off.

And that is very true. The movie opened wide July 30th, 2004. Made $66 million at the box office. I'm just now realizing I forgot to pull up the box office weekend. I'll do that now. All right. It's not in the outline. Slacking on my duties,

I got too distracted by all of Merrill's Hillary Clinton here. I was going to say, See, that was the, we're going to throw you a curveball. She's going to be deeply Republican-coded and a total war hawk, but also she's going to have Hillary hair. Do you think this movie was the reason why people got so hung up on Hillary Clinton as a warhawk going into the 2016 election? Do you think it's all Merrill's fault?

It could also be that she was a little bit of a war-hawk. She was a little bit of a war-hawk. The movie opened up against the, opened wide against the opening weekend for the village. The village opened at $50 million in first place, born supremacy, at second weekend at $24 million. The Manchurian candidate, third place, $20 million. Did you see the village opening weekend?

I don't know if I saw it opening weekend, but I definitely saw it early enough that we were in a full theater, and I remember I was that guy, I was that person who, when that movie ended, and I go, loud enough for other people to hear it, I go, what the fuck was that? and a handful of other people left. I was also in an opening night full theater, and I remember feeling the oxygen slowly leave,

and I was immediately one of those, like, those people are wrong type of people. We would have been enemies that year, yeah. That year? I think I've softened on the village, even though I think ultimately it is more dumb, dumb-coded than I think people want to admit. I'm going to do the rest of this box office discussion a little differently.

Joe, where, if you can place yourself in time, I should also say it's the limited opening weekend for Garden State. See our previous episode on Garden State and now AI betrothed to Zach Brath. He has an AI girlfriend and apparently he is unabashedly telling people. Rather than giving you the rest of the top five, I'm going to ask you if you can send yourself back in time right now. See if you can remember, where is Catwoman in this box office top ten? It's its second weekend. It's still in the top ten. It is still in the top ten.

It's eighth. It is sixth. Okay, close. All right. Catwoman. A good time. I've still never seen it. I've never seen Halle Berry's catwoman.

I think the bad buzz chased me away. Petov's Catwoman. The director, as you might imagine, from that movie, is a French guy. Is Petov? Hold on. No truth to the rumor that Demi Moore's former dog was named Petov and was replaced by Peeloff. Pitof Is

Uh Wow It does not say Pitof Everybody's favorite French singer Edith Pitof Yes Born in Paris, France

Okay, yes, there we go That makes all the sense in the world All the sense in the world Joe, are you ready to give a 60 second plot description for the Manchurian candidate. Plot description, yes. 60 seconds, I doubt it. But let's do it. Then your sleeper cell activation,

your 126 second sleeper cell activation phrase starts now. We begin in the deserts of Kuwait in 1991 during Operation Desert Storm, and while Jake Jillon Hall and his Marines pals are playing grab ass on the other side of the oil wells, Denzel Washington is the captain of an army unit on a reconnaissance mission that goes awry, and during which Denzel is knocked unconscious. Cut to present day 2004-ish, and while two men on that mission were killed,

Denzel survived, as did one sergeant Raymond Shaw, who was awarded the Medal of Honor for his heroism. Shaw is the son of United States Senator, Eleanor Prentice Shaw, fire-breathing dragon of a warhawk who is pushing hard for Raymond, now a congressman to be named a VP nominee for the ticket. Now, a congressman to be named a VP nominee for the ticket. She wields her political clout and convinces the old guard to boot moderate John Void off ticket, and suddenly her handsome war hero of the sun is one election away from wherever room in the house they let the VP into. Meanwhile, Denzel is having nightmares about his experience in Iraq, and they're exacerbated by when he's visited by one of the men from his unit, played by Jeffrey Wright. who is messed up in the head and has the tell-tale pile of loose papers that he carries around to prove it. Among Jeffers' scribblings are a drawing of the same Benny Jeserite witch who keeps showing up in Denzel's dreams accompanied by Simon McBurney in a lab coat, and you know he's up to some fucked up Nazi mind experiment shit. On the same day, Denzel meets with a pretty young woman played by Kimberly Elise, who takes an interest in him, and he finds a microchip and embedded it in his back.

It's a big day. He seeks that shot to find out what the heck really happened out in the desert back then. Raymond doesn't remember anything. But then we see him get activated by a code phrase, and suddenly he's in a secret lab behind a bookcase where air, Air Doctor Simon McBurney is running systems checks on the sleeper cell program they installed in his head. What follows involves Denzel's descent into paranoid madness. At one point, he bites the microchip out of Shaw's back and he does some microfiche-sleeve thing to dig into the international arms and Conspiracy Corporation, Manchurian Global, which appears to be behind this whole thing. He takes his findings to John Voight, who was a good man and who is a good man, and she and Raymond are going to have to resign for the good of the party, except no, they're not because as soon as he leaves the room, Merrill activates her son's kill switch, and he heads off to Chesapeake or wherever to drown John Voight and some shallow water. Kimberly Elise turns out to be a Fed. Shaw is a good man who doesn't want to be a sleeper cell assassin, and he and his mom almost make out, and then Merrill activates Denzel's code phrase and gets him

to assassinate the newly elected president on election night so that Raymond will end up the president. But ooh, bitch, Sleeper Sal Denzel managed just to fight off the conditioning enough to get the head nod from Raymond and shoot him, both him and his dastardly mother right there in front of the entire unnamed political party in the nation's TV cameras. Kimberly Elise and the feds believe Denzel and they make sure he's not caught for the crime, and Manjurian Global's misdeeds are exposed, and Denzel takes the feds on a tour of the secret desert brainwashing lab and exposes the whole dirty business the end. One minute and 18 seconds over.

First of all, Simon McBurney is, you know that that character is evil because he's Simon McBurney. One billion percent, yes. Second of all, Kimberly Elise turning out to be a Fed is the most predictable plot point ever. Very much so. Oh, this lady didn't just like take an interest in this squirrely-looking guy who's like... This man, she met on public transit. Who's clearly like having like a mental breakdown.

Yes, please go shower in my home and stay there. Right, right. Also, the way she barges into that bathroom, it's like, ma'am, he could be pooping. Like, what, there's no indication that he's doing anything but pooping. Like, my God. There's so many things like that. I forget what the third thing I was going to say, but maybe it'll come back to me.

Yeah. The, I remember one of the scenes that got like, you know, uh, jokes and energy. Weekly sidebars, was the bathtub scene. Which, like... The bathtub scene. Where Merrill is bathing her adult son... Well, yes.

I mean, they do almost make out, and then the camera cuts away suggestively. No, there's a lot of, like... There's a lot of dumb shit in this movie. Like, what... I'm not here to beat cinema sins, but, like, the whole idea that Merrill wants to have the president assassinated on election. night. Like, the votes have not all been counted, ma'am. Like, you're just going to trigger a constitutional crisis if you do the assassination now. Wait until he's inaugurated. And then, you know, easy peasy, you've got, you know, constitutional backing or whatever. Like, that's just poor planning.

Also that, like, acceptance speech or whatever, how they have literal fog and they have, like, CGI graphics. I know. If that's not how you know, this is the Republican Party. The other way you know is that John Void is there. Well, but John Voight's the good Republican, though, which is very funny, and, you know, in sort of retrospect. Which is like, he's the honest man, he's the one honest man in the party. And it's like, sure. Sure, of course. But no.

Merle is very good in this movie, though. Globe nominated, Bafter nominated. Yep. And so, okay, so the Oscar nominees and supporting actress this year, Blanchet wins. her first of two Oscars for playing Catherine Hepburn and The Aviator. Natalie Portman wins the Globe for Closer, which is the thing I will always be happy about because I love her in that movie. Virginia Madsen is nominated for Sideways in one of those, like,

the nomination is the reward. Her career had, you know, it was a big comeback story for her and whatnot. Sofia Canado nominated for Hotel Rwanda, which is a nice reminder of like how like a momentary. entirely popular that movie was. And then Laura Linney is nominated for Kinsey, which is kind of the opposite, had kind of the opposite trajectory of Hotel Rwanda, where at the start of the season, Kinsey seemed like it was going to be a big contender, Liam Neeson was going to be a best actor

contender, yada, yada, and ultimately, I think Laura Linney is that movie's only nomination. She is. Which is why I always forget about it. I Who do I Who do I throw Merrill in ahead of there I like Sophia Okinae I don't know if

Hotel Rwanda is the like superlative movie that maybe needs Oscar nominations It's not a bad movie But like While I say this is better than some of the performances Meryl has been nominated for Like I don't feel like Meryl was hugely slighted at this point.

I'm not someone who's like, well, Merrill has enough, but maybe in the circumstances, it's fine, Merrill has enough. We don't, we don't need to be hunting necessarily, although there's certain movies that I'm like, she really should have been nominated for this, but the hours at the top of that list. But you're right, no, I don't, I'm just sort of playing the parlor game of,

like, would I rank Merrill ahead of any of those five? And I probably would rank her ahead of Okaneda, but maybe not anybody else. Well, and Sophie Okanato was the, like, nomination morning surprise Um, for the category. I feel like that we,

there was a little bit of a derm beat for that. I think the big surprise Oscar nomination morning was Alan Alda in supporting actor, uh, for the aviator. After he got the BAFTA nomination. Which like, but Hotel Rwanda was also a movie that was like growing and growing and growing throughout the season.

Exactly. Uh, late season release and definitely closer to best picture than the mandatory and candidate by a my a mile. You know, so, like, that contributes to some of that, too. Totally. Totally.

Yeah. And also, I think it's one of those things where Merrill is really good in this movie, but I think her best stuff is earlier in the movie. Particularly when she's not so involved in the plot later on. I like watching her as a political operator more so that I like watching her as a, like, you know, part of this. medical weirdo relationship she has with, M. F. Schreiber. That first big scene where And Out

shows up and Obabatunday shows up. Though I guess it's like, is this the Republican Party? Obababatundi's there. I don't really believe that. I do believe And Out. It is an imprecisely drawn. Like, this is ultimately why... It's intentional.

It's, yes. I think they try to you know, blur the lines a little bit. which, you know, fair enough. But like, Jalcoevonics there. Of course you guys are Republicans. You know what I mean? Like, John Voitz there. Come on.

Come on. But also, I think that scene is one of the scenes that feel most, like, demi. Because it's one of my frustrations with this movie is it doesn't really feel like his. I even feel like, I don't think that this is a bad movie by any stretch. But, like, you look at something like Ricky and. the Flash, which is another late Demi movie. And like that movie has like clear

problems, but it also has so much also working for it. That's like any time of any, any time like 100 times out of 100, you put those two like DVDs in front of me, which one am I going to put in the player? It's going to be Ricky in the Flash. Sure, sure, yeah. And then of course you have

between those two, you have Ricky, you, not Ricky in the Flash, you have Rachel getting married, which is just like you know, it's shot digitally. It is formally very different, but like that sense of liveliness where it's just like there's so much more life in the frame that like another filmmaker wouldn't have that it feels so Jonathan Demi to like the extreme, you know? Like back to basics almost for him. Thought experiment. You swap Meryl and Ricky in the Flash with Anne Hathaway and Rachel getting married.

and what do you get? You mean like the roles? Like Anne Hathaway is Ricky Randazzo and... Anne Hathaway is the... Anne Hathaway is... No. Anne Hathaway is the front of an unsuccessful rock band who has to go attend her sister's wedding back in wherever.

But her sister is Mamie Gummer and her dad is Kevin Klein. And then Meryl Streep is... is Rosemary DeWitt's mom, but she's the one who sucks up all the oxygen in the room, and she's the problem in that movie. I would like to see it. I would like to see both of those movies, in fact. Can we talk for half a second... Oh, go ahead.

Can we talk for half a second about Dean Stockwell's comically large cigar in this movie? It's really, really out of control. It's insane. I mean, Dean Stockwell, one of the many actors in Demi movies to get Oscar nominations. Married to the Mob, absolutely. Yep.

You know who's really good in this movie for, like, Aseen? Is Jeffrey Wright? Yeah, Jeffrey Wright kills in this movie to the point where I always think he's in more of the movie, but, like, plot-wise, it's like, no, he dies very early. Yes. The... One thing I want to say, because, like, immediately, like,

the Demi, like, direct, like, eye to camera, direct address shot. He gets, like, the first really good one. And this movie has quite a few really good ones. That's when it feels like it's Jonathan Demi doing his thing. Yeah. Even if the script never does. I mean, like, we talk about that a lot when we talk about Demi, those, like, you know, the close-ups. But this one has some good ones.

The other thing about Jeffrey Wright and Meryl Streep is that this is in the immediate afterglow of Angels in America. Yep, yep, yep. They're back together again. They both had just won their Emmys. They don't have a seed together. They won her Emmy with her Senator Eleanor Prentice Shaw hairstyle.

Yeah. Yeah. And as we all know, she sometimes thinks even she is overrated, but not today. Not today. Um, yeah, you get the usual sort of cavalcade of Jonathan Demi cameos, right? Paul Lazar shows up at one point. Charles Napier shows up. Roger Corman, of course,

has to be there in some sort of bit role. It's, you know, it's Demi. He's doing his thing. He only was ever nominated when he won for Silence of the Lambs. When else would you throw him a director nomination? Jonathan Demi? It's an interesting question. I mean, let's pull up the filmography. Let's pull up the old filmography. So, I mean, we've talked about Philadelphia quite a bit on various podcasts. I think Rachel Getting Married is maybe my favorite movie of that year, so I would definitely have given him a nomination for that. I would also do Rachel getting married. If I can only do one. Yeah, I think if I could only do one, it would be that one. I absolutely just love that movie. But, like, I imagine there are people who could make, who would make a case for something wild, for Philadelphia, for, um, maybe married to the mob. There's, you know, there's a bunch of stuff. It's a, it's a Melvin and Howard, perhaps. Rachel getting married is also, like, not a good Oscar year, in my opinion, especially

that directing lineup. So that's 2008. So that's the exact same as the best picture lineup. So you have Fincher. Boyle winning. Van Sant for Milk. Ron Howard for Frost Nixon. a very easy one to bop out.

And then... An easier one to pop out? Stephen Daldry. My friend's Stephen Daldry for the reader. Yeah. Yeah, you could definitely, you know, a next, at least two of those folks. I don't...

Does the Manchurian candidate count for you as a... They don't make him like this anymore? Or does it count for you as like a... If I see it on cable on a Saturday afternoon, I'm just going to like watch it from wherever I pick it up and watch it to the end. Kind of neither, because I could see this movie, especially as a Denzel Washington vehicle, still being made today. Yes, I think that's true. I think it's a very, very meat and potatoes down the middle of the plate, Denzel Washington role.

He plays it well. Yeah, he's the greatest living actor. He's not bad in this movie. He's more vulnerable maybe in this role than he is in some of his other ones. It's not quite a... you know, it's less cop-ish than some of his other ones. He's not really in control of his mind for some of this movie, and I think he plays that all very well. But I think the thing you run into with Denzel Washington so often is like the baseline becomes so high that he really needs to, like,

exceed it with something unusual in order to, you know, get a nomination. And that's why, like, he'll get nominated for playing Macbeth. You know what I mean? Even though maybe you appreciate his performance in something like unstoppable or whatever, maybe more, you know what I mean? But it's like, you know, ultimately unstoppable isn't really him playing anything so different for him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I mean, some of it goes down to material, too. Not to say that, you know, the tragedy of Macbeth is bad material. That's not what I'm saying, though it would be very funny if I did say that. But, like, you can imagine where it's a top-tier Denzel performance in this movie if the script is better. If there's, like, a more interesting character for him to play rather than what happens to the character. But I also feel like with a story. like this, the person unraveling the plot is never going to be as interesting as the plot. You know what I mean? Like, so ultimately, or the villains. This is what I mean. Like, Schreiber, Streep, they're going to be the more interesting

parts of the movie just on a like character and plot basis. I go back and forth wondering whether I would rather see somebody else besides Leav Schreiber in this role. of Shreber, who I think has been really incredible in a lot of things, because part of it is the role requires a degree of blankness, and I think he delivers that. Is there another actor who is maybe capable of being more interesting in his blankness, if that makes any kind of sense? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Or like, when that switch flips, you see. more stark of a difference, you know what I mean? Because I think when you go, a plot like this,

this idea that somebody could be in charge of their own mind and, you know, their own sort of autonomous person, and then somebody says a phrase, and they snap out of their own head, right? Yeah. Is terrifying. And I'm not sure if Schreiber plays the kind of horrid. of that so heavily. I understand what you're saying. I probably think he's a little bit better than you think he is. I don't think he's bad.

I just like, I did spend a little bit of a time being like, would I have liked somebody else better? A lot of it goes down to the look, right? Because he just looks the part so well. Yes. He's also, he's not somebody who, I think maybe somebody who projected a little bit, bit younger too, might have been a little bit more striking of a figure, this idea that

like he really is this just like young, vital sort of like, you know, Kennedy-esque kind of, you know, somebody who could, if allowed to stick by his own convictions, be a good and principled man who could pull the country together. Because ultimately, like, this movie wants you to have that fantasy about, you know, or else what is the loss of her? her of his mother, Manchurianing him to begin with. If she's not sort of robbing the country of this, you know, actual potentially, you know, good man or whatever. I suppose you're right.

He did lose a lot of time and, you know, went through some real hardship when he was erroneously serving prison time for killing Sidney Prescott's mom. For killing Morian Prescott? Yes, absolutely. No, you're totally right. You got there. That's good. He wasn't that far removed from Cottonweary times at this point, which I thought that there was a little more distance or there was another major role.

Scream 3 was 2000, right? Scream 3 was 2000. So yeah, he's only a few years. He's only one presidential term removed. This clearly was like a significant stepping stone. He wins his Tony the very next year after this. What did he win his Tony for? Talk Radio? No, that was after his Tony win. He won for one of the, like, you know, Bill. Glenn Glenglarigan-Ross. Oh. I think he was in the one that people liked. Is he Roma? Yes.

Okay. That's interesting. I guess that's the role that wins you, Tony's, is cheering that. Yeah. Was he in one of those coast of utopias, too, around that time, or am I erroneously put in a... I don't remember if he was. I know Crudup was.

Crudup definitely was. That was just before I moved to New York. So, now that I did my- Is still close to his Oscar win, only three years later. Yeah. One for Training Day in 01. In 02, early O2, you have John Q, but he also has his directorial debut with

Antoine Fisher. We could do an Antoine Fisher episode at some point. Is Man on Fire 03 or 05? It's 04. It's the same year. Oh, it's the same year. Okay. Okay. And in 03, he has a Carl Franklin movie out of time.

Which I've never seen. I would like to because I like Carl Franklin. There's a handful of those kind of movies that feel somewhat interchangeable, but it's only because I've never seen them. I've never seen out of time. I've never seen Deja Vu. I've never seen two guns, the one with him and Walberg. I don't know if I'm going to see a movie called Two Guns with Mark Wahlberg. With Mark Wahlberg being one of the guns.

Even if it has Denzel Washington in it. I don't think I can. watch that. It's just not quite in my genre, but like, you know, I don't know. Again, you throw it in front of me on a cable station on a weekend. We'll see how it goes. Why not? Joe, we're talking about Denzel and Schreiber, and guess what? We have a dual six-timers quiz this episode. Gary's, Chris really pulled my feet out of the fire this week, because I had have been under the weather and not feeling up to it. And Chris stepped in to quiz me up, baby.

I was like, I don't care what Joe's doing. I'm going to do something, and it turns out this is what we're doing today. All right. Because we keep shifting this around, and because, you know, we keep trying different things, and we keep having multiple people we have to do for one movie. I know. I'm going to be doing the quiz this time. I am quizzing Joe

because I'm the thursdayer one here apparently we are doing the Chris hotness scale Oh You will note that in previous six timers or ten timers Joe has been like Rank the actors that I like the most Yep, fully subjective

Here's what we're doing. Joe, get a pen ready In case you don't have the titles We are going to separately for Shriver and then Denzel, we can do this in whatever order you want. You're going to get a point for... What's the prize? We'll see if there is a prize. If you can guess this perfectly, I will buy you a criterion. Let's say that.

Guess it perfectly. Okay. We're doing the Chris Hottness scale. For each performer, you have to guess what order I think they are most. to least hot in in episodes we've done on this show. In their performances. In their performances.

Got it. So for Denzel, the movies we have done in alphabetical order. Courage under fire. Devil in a blue dress. Inside man. A Manchurian candidate. Much ado about

nothing. and the Pelican brief. Okay. Do you need me to repeat those? I'm going to read them back to you. Okay. So, courage under fire, devil in a blue dress, inside man, the Manchurian candidate, much ado about nothing, and the Pelican brief. Correct.

Okay. So, psychology time. So you and I diverge on... Do you want the Shriver list first, though? Oh, sure, yeah. Give me the Shriver list. Yeah. Okay.

All right. But these are two separate rankings. The Denzel ranking and a Leah ranking? Two separate rankings. Yes, I did not intermix them. Got it. For Leif Schreiber. Yes.

We have the French dispatch. Lee Daniels the butler. The Manchurian candidate. The painted veil, ransom, and a walk on the moon. Okay, the French dispatch, the butler, the Manchurian candidate, the painted veil, ransom, and a walk on the moon. Correct. Okay, so let's start with Denzel. I think there are two standouts among these two, and I wonder whether you and I overlap on those.

but like I also want to like put myself in your headspace and think if any of those roles have a particular file appeal

in any particular way. Okay so I mean devil in the blue dress it's that very sort of like there's a There's a humidity to that. There's a, you know, he's walking around with the old white ribbed tank top. Much to do about nothing. He's very charming, very handsome.

I feel like I remember you talking about how hot he is and much to do about nothing. All right. I'm not trying to throw you here, but I will also just note because I'm like contractually obligated to. Everyone is so hot and much ado about nothing. nothing. It's like... It's true. Such a hot movie. It's true. Yeah. Just saying much ado about nothing.

It's like my impulse is just like, did you know everyone is so hot in that movie? Can't hold back. So, see, I'm listing them out here, and it's too close to what my own rankings would be. So I need to like... I need to fucking flip and roll. around or something. Okay. I'm going to say... Flip it around. Flip your outfit, baby. Flip your outfit. Okay. Number one, much ado about nothing.

Number two, the Pelican brief. Number three, devil in a blue dress. Number four, inside man. Number five, Manchurian, number six, courage under fire. All right. Let's do your Shriver, and then I will tell you, uh, okay, a couple of questions. A couple of questions. Who is he at the French dispatch?

Great question. Next question. Okay. Who, what president does he play in the Butler? Johnson? Johnson. He's Lyndon Johnson. He's on the shitter. Okay. He is indeed on the shitter in, I believe,

not one but two scenes. And then in Ransom, he's part of the crew of kidnappers? Okay. I think I like scuzzy villains more than you do. Okay. So, for Leav Schreiber, I'm going to say your number one, walk on the moon. I feel like that's the easy one. I'm going to say your number two is the painted veil, because maybe you have a soft spot for linen suits. Number three, I can't remember who he plays in the French Dispatch, but everybody in Wes Anderson movies, or at least most of the people,

end up looking handsome, I think, I hope in this case. Number four, I'm going to put ransom, which would have been higher on mine, but I think it'll be lower on yours. Number five, Manchurian candidate, because although he's very handsome, he is a Republican, and I think that would get in your way.

And I think in the butler, I think Lyndon Johnson on the shitter just is not going to appeal to you. So that's going to be my number six. How many do you think you got right? In total between both of them? Mm-hmm. Seven.

You got three, right? You bitch. We'll go through then so. Okay. My number one, devil in a blue dress, you said number three. Much ado. It was my number two. You said number one.

I would have given that to you if that was the only wrong answer because flip a coin, and it could be much ado. Okay. a blue dress, but I do think... Those are my personal top two, so I should have stuck with my gut there. Pelican Brief is my number three. You said it was two. You were right about inside man.

Number four. I said courage under fire. Five, you said six. And the Manchurian candidate, I said six, you said five. He is shirtless in this movie. He is. And doesn't shave his chest. And I think he usually does.

But he is also, like, sweaty and scared. He takes... Lee of Schreiber from behind and bites something out of his back. So that is a consideration I had in this movie. Fair, but he is terrified most of the movie, which is just not sexy. Oh, okay. All right. Bulletin, Chris Fyle does not find people going through mental health crises sexy. I see. I see how it goes. Wow. Wow. This is how you're trying to, wow. Cancel this man.

Listen, I've gone through mental health crises and I'm very sexy. what is that fro? Is that like, not mental health, but like, what's a movie where a woman's like, and I'm very sexy.

Is that like Steele magnolias? It might be. Probably. All right. We have Shriver, though. Walk on the moon, number one, very correct.

Because, canonically, that movie is like, look at her, lose her husband, and it's like, the hot guy over there. The hot guy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Manchurian candidate, you said five. It's my number two. Yes, he is quite possibly a reposable, But, like, maybe he's also not a Republican.

But he does also have his bare, hairy chest in this movie. That's like, yeah. Ransom, you said four. It's my number three. Proud of you. Okay. Nothing wrong with a scuzzy villain. You think that I'm anti-Scusy villains.

I don't understand. I don't necessarily think it's your anti. I just think I'm more pro. Also, he's definitely the hottest in that crew. Like, let's be right. Oh, yeah. The painted veil. You said number two.

I said number four. Okay. The French Dispatch, you said three. It's my number five, and I wasn't trying to be evasive in your answer. I quite literally do not remember him in that. Hold on. Doing a quick search. Leav Schreiber, the French Dispatch.

Oh, God. He's the Dick Cavett stand in, interviewing Jeffrey Wright. See, if I could have remember that, it probably would have been number two. So you were at least on a good instinct because I could not remember him. So I was like, that's probably my number five because there's absolutely no way he's less attractive than him shitting as Linden Johnson in the butler. I knew I would get I knew that one was on, I was on very solid ground there here. Take a look at Leav in this suit. Pulling this up now.

With the cigarette. Exactly. Yeah. He's got the sideburn. He's got the sideburns. I know. I know. All right.

Also, we have Freiber Jeffrey Wright together again in that movie. I hope they kiss. I always hope they kiss. I kind of hope Jeffrey Wright just kisses everybody. I like that. Jeffrey Wright-Denzell Washington, highest to lowest, was a mansuring candidate reunion. Man, everybody from this cast really just loves to be in other movies together.

Good for them. Meryl also received a Movies for Grownup nomination for Best Actress in what was clearly a condensed supporting Andreed race. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's nominated against Cloris Leachman for Spanglish, Anne Reed for the mother, Jenna Rollins for The Notebook, Susan Sarandon for Shall We Dance and Lily Tomlin, IHeart Huckabee, so many previous episodes. And we haven't done the winner, which is Anne Reed, fucking Daniel Craig. in the mother. I've never seen that movie. I should see that.

I haven't. I just know it's the movie where it's like she has an affair with her son-in-law, who is Daniel Craig. Does anybody direct that? Who's of note? It's not like a Roger Michel, is it?

Is it? Oh, please. They call me the mother. Guess who's back in the house? Anne Reed. It is, Ron. Roger Michel. There we go.

Good call. What if we... I haven't seen it, but I know it's a Roger Michel. And then of course, far be it from us to not think of Nikki Carrow's The Mother, where Jennifer Lopez bundles up to go into the Arctic for reasons. I don't know, man. I don't know. What else?

What else? What else? We talked about Liev. We talked about... Okay, this was before anybody knew who Villar Femiga was. This was before Down to the Bone or whatever, right? Is it before Down to the Bone? I don't know.

I bet it's after. Well, then it's weird that she's in this role. Like, I've never seen that one either. Who's... That's Debrugranic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Vera Farmingo went to Syracuse University. All right.

Central New York. Okay, Diva. No, it's the same year. is down to the bone. She won like LA film critics for that or something, right? Did it take a while to get that to theaters? I forget. She is great in it.

She won some kind of critics award for that. I feel like. Yes, LA film critics gave her best actress. Down to the Bone. She's an addict. Mm-hmm. All right. Yes, cocaine addict.

Okay, some of my notes on this. Let me dig in. Wycliffe John covering Fortunate Sun is maybe the most 2004 thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Pretty wild. Right at the beginning of this. Only rivaled by Al Franken playing a fake news reporter, but like a fake sincere news reporter. Like, I don't know where he was on the spectrum of Daily Show correspondent to United States Senator at that moment. moment. John Void.

He's a Boy Scout troop leader. Yeah. Make that Troop Beverly Hills sequel. Or make Tars a Boy Scout troop leader voiced by... Tars with a bunch of little badges on one of his legs. Yes! Tars would get all the badges. Go Tars. I need a Tars sequel. Did you also think that the Rock in Project Hail Mary was Bill Irwin and then was shocked in the closing credits to find out that is not Bill Irwin? I started thinking it was Bill Irwin, and then the more I listened to it, I'm like, this is not Bill Irwin.

And it was only because of Tars that I was thinking that. I did think it was somebody whose voice I knew, and then ultimately found out that that was not the case. Can I say another supremely 2004 thing about this movie? Yes. Meryl Streep extremely pointedly in her monologue, calling America by female pronouns. Yes. It's very like, remember in Empire Records when Robin Tunney finally starts talking about her suicide attempt? And I think she's talking to Warren.

And she's like, and I went to heaven and I saw God. And she said, what's up? And it's like, God's a woman. Like, can we talk about the Benegeserate in his vision? It is really cultural. in sensish. But like, to what end even is that, like, what? What are those women doing there? What are they doing there? Is it local color? Like, I genuinely don't understand. Also, again... It felt like a studio note, like, we need something in the trailer.

But it literally is just like Gomjabar realness. Like, something's going on. The other thing is, and again, I don't want to be a scold, but, like, it does not make any sense that this, like, ultra-secret government lab is underground a like sand spit in the middle of the Persian Gulf or whatever? It's just like there is no structural integrity possible there to build it like what when are you building this secret military layer on this sandbar where like the tides have to go out for you to like reach it. It makes no sense. This is why secret government layers are built inside mountains. Just like head over to the caucuses or something. I don't know. But that's where we're all going to go into for the apocalypse, you know, when that happens, as we saw in House of Dynamite.

Okay, this I wrote down and I was having a moment. Okay. This is no doubt a movie with a deep skepticism for Republican-style militarism and foreign policy. But doesn't it also kind of play into those Republican fantasies of a politician who is like peddling in? insincere populism and ultimately, like, should not be trusted. I wanted to read it in this way, and I also kind of wanted to read it in the way of, like, do nothing liberalism of today, but I was like, it just doesn't track for 2004. It doesn't track that someone like Demi would want to make that comment then.

That wasn't really part of even a widespread conversation. We were just talking about other things at that time. Can I tell you the part that made me grown the most? Was when... I think it's when Shaw is talking to Denzel about, like, whatever, his upbringing or whatever. And how his mother sort of raised him to be apprentice. And he goes, apprentice, I'm apprentice. And I'm like, we get it, apprentice!

Like... Shut up. It's so... It's cringy. Dean Stockwell's comic That shit is a studio noted into oblivion Oh the Fountains of Wayne song that plays During the weird like disassociation

montage or whatever Like what the fuck is going on? That was so weird Um Yeah it is a movie that you know It's you can you can bag on this movie Pretty easily but I think it is also Pretty watchable

More Yeah It's never as satisfying as you want it to be Because at a certain point you're like Okay, this is not reaching the bar of Jonathan Demi Where it's just like there's idiosyncrasy There's so much character or like The world we are living in detail

It feels kind of vague and beige in that way And you're like, okay, that's fine Let's just make this like a standard studio thriller that we can enjoy on that level. And even on that level, it's still kind of missing the mark. And, like, I don't know, it doesn't feel like it's really all that politically

relevant for 2004. So, I guess this is also an explanation of how it could miss the mark with the Academy, too. Oh, totally. Yeah. I think, ultimately, it was very easily, and it's, you know, it's a late summer movie kind of a thing. shout out to Denzel's, you know, yoga instructors or something for making him flexible enough

to be able to dig a microchip out of that part in the shoulder where if you have an it it's never, ever, ever reaching it, that he's able to not only like cut himself open, but then like pull this teeny tiny little microchip out. Like, good for you, man. That's good training. That's good flexibility training. I don't know. I think that's maybe everything that I have to say about this movie. Should we move on to the IMDB game?

Yeah. Get you some rest, some tea. Would love that. I'm not even taking anything. I'm just going right to bed after this, I think. We hope you feel better. Would you like to play, explain the IMDB game for others? Yeah. Every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, wherein we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says,

they're most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles, release, as a clue. And if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all-of-hands. That's the I-NVB game. Joe, would you like to give her guess first? I'll give first. So, I'm kind of hovering over two options. I went down the route of the original, um, the original the Manchurian candidate starred among others, Angela Lansbury, who became, was certainly best known to me in my upbringing

as the star of televisions. Murder, she wrote, a show that went on for many, many, many seasons and featured many, many, many guest stars. And so I just sort of perused the list of guest stars to see who I might want to do. I'm going to give you the choice between two people, all right? And you tell me which one you would rather do. I chose either Martin Balsam or Michael Constantine.

Oh, God. Both of those are incredibly hard, but my franchise loyalty says Michael Constantine. All right. Because Michael Constantine has both my Big Fat Greek wedding and my Big Fat Greek Wedding 2. Bing, Bing, Gus Portacalos in my Big Fat Greek Wedding 1 and 2. All right. See, not so hard. Um, but after that, I don't know how I'll get there.

Um, I wonder if I'm, I'm just going to say my Big Fat Greek Wedding 3, even though he passed away prior to the making of that movie, but maybe he's credited in photos or previous footage. Nope, not that. Okay. My Big Fat Greek life? No. Uh, not that either. All right. So now you're going to get years.

Your years are 1961 and 1996. Mm, there you go. Okay, 96. Yes. These have to both be comedies. No, neither one of them are comedies. The 96 movie is one that I, like, reference not unoften for saying the movie's title in a kind of creepy way.

It's kind of a ridiculous movie, and he plays a... somewhat problematic archetype, let's say. Is he playing someone else's race? Like, is he... It's not race, but it is a class of people who are...

Oh! Oh! There you go. There you go. You got to say it right, though. I curse you. Finna. Yeah, he's playing a Romani person. Yes, he is. Yes. You kill my daughter, and I bless you.

Finer. I can't believe I didn't guess that. We do that joke forever. If you just want to hear two idiot, our version of two dumb bitches looking at each other saying exactly, is the two of us just being like, Thine.

You know what was one of the best movies of last year? Sinners. I curse you. I curse you. Dinner. Wait, Michael Constantine interviewing Beyonce. Winner. Who is your favorite American Idol champion?

All right. Last one. 1961 is a movie that is well known, but not for him being in it, of course. a very, very, very, very well-known, well-respected actor in, like, in, well-no, that'll make it too easy. 1961, like, top shelf... Is it like in the heat of the night? No. Because I was like, is that Sydney Poitier?

No. 61. Paul Newman. Yes. Wow. All right. Already there. Is this HUD?

It's not HUD. I think HUD is later 60s. Yeah. As is cool hand look. Uh, so... Is it the hustler? It's the hustler. Yes.

I curse you, hustler. I curse you. Hustler. Wait, Michael Constantine plays Big John in the hustler. Yeah. So, I curse you. Bigger. John.

For the record, Martin Balsam wouldn't have been so bad, because it's generally like, what are the, like, four movies you remember him being in? But that's all right. Yeah. I went a little more basic for your choice. I chose someone from the supporting actors lineup this year that somehow we haven't done,

or we just didn't put it in our spreadsheet when we did it. Laurelini. Okay. Laura Linney. Including a television show. Ozark? Incorrect. Fuck off.

Is it the big C? It's the big C. All right. Okay. Three more. Laura Linney, you can count on me? Correct. Thank God.

Okay. All right. So now we get into the, is it going to? prioritize her other Oscar nominations, which are Kinsey and the Savages. Is it going to prioritize something like The Squid and the Whale, which has shown up on other people's known for? You've got stuff like Primal Fear and the Exorcism of Emily Rose, where she's playing the lawyers. She's in one of the Bourne movies. Is there anything where, like,

She's just like a fourth or fifth build person in like a very, very successful movie. You know what? I'm just going to play it safe for the moment. I'm going to say the savages. The savages is correct. Okay. So I didn't, I got Ozark wrong, so I can't get the four for four. Then I'm going to guess Kinsey. Kinsey is correct. Oh, okay. All right. Joe, you know what my sleeper cell activation phrase is? What?

You can count on me Kinsey the Savages. Yeah. Laura Linney's Oscar nominations for my sleepersel activation phrase. Kinsey the Savages, you can count on me. No, you can count on me Kinsey the Savages. They have to be in order. That is the sleeper cell activation phrase. But it has to be short phrase, longer phrase, longer phrase.

I know that this doesn't satisfy editorial correctness. Ellen or Prentice is not going to be happy with this. But this is just how it has to be. Okay, all right. We did it. I think that's our episode. Yes, that is our episode. Listeners, check back in with us.

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