This Had Oscar Buzz - 390 – Les Miserables (1998)

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

We’re back after our May Miniseries and it’s Tonys week! Rather than a musical, we’re talking about a movie that disappointed in part because it wasn’t a big screen version of the Broadway smash… In 1998, director Bille August brought a condensed version of Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables to the screen. With Liam Neeson headlining … Continue reading "390 – Les Miserables (1998)"

No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Bill and heck. And drink. I'm from Canada Water. Dick Pooh. Man has nothing to fear from the truth. It has inspired the musical seen by over 40 million people.

Where do you look after, Cossette? Cousad will always be safe with me. It will not go free while I am in charge of this post. Cosette, we have to tell. This timeless classic becomes the motion picture event. Because I promised your mother I would take care of you. I remind you that what you say may destroy a man's life. Please tell me what this is all about, Papa.

Look at me. You recognize me? I am the man you want. I am Jean Valjean. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is squatting in Kimberly Alisa's apartment after she just met us. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason, or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always, with my One Game or Joe Reed. How dare you on multiple fronts? First of all, how dare you reference the musical when we are left with a music-less film to discuss? How dare you... On Tony Week, no less. On Tony Week, no less. How dare you call back to the Manchari and candidate when you know my memory doesn't go back that far.

Just many, many, I'm offended on many counts. Yes. So we're like, it's the Tonys. Wouldn't it be funny if we did the non-musical Les Mizz? Well, yes, and it's also funny because we're recording this the day after the Cannes Film Festival Awards were presented. And we kind of accidentally backed into like Cannes discourse because we are talking about, of course,

Billy August, who is somewhat infamously, I would say. My knives are sharpening. I was going to say, this is Chris's Cannes Film Festival nemesis. Folks, I think we've mentioned before a few times that we have a Cannes Film Festival pool among our close friends. That is our version of Close Friends posts is we just do a Cannes film festival pool. But you have not lived until you have seen Chris really explore the space with daily can updates on what films have just premiered, what films are about to premiere, and more specifically, what can history is leading into each day, what films have won the palm on what day of the fact.

festival, what films have won the palm by being the best reviewed or worst reviewed. There is a... Our pool is really just an exercise that Joe organizes because wouldn't it be fun to put some little cash bets out there in an ethical way that is not, you know, the cultural scourge that is Kalshi and Polly Market. And then I'm like, wouldn't this be a great excuse to, like, lock all of our friends into having to listen to me with arcane and useless trivia about the Cannes Film Festival? There is a beauty in watching someone be so completely in their own element, and that is what it is watching Chris sort of take the reins of Cann discourse on a microlux.

level. It's just incredible. As someone who is trying to figure out what their little corner of what we do is and what like, what I, like, where is my like true creative self? And I do think it is running color commentary on things people don't care about. So maybe I'll find a way to monetize. This is why you and I doing red carpet coverage for the M4Gs is like the Ney Plus Ultra. Like, it's the absolute, it's what we should be striving for. Well, we're immensely hireable.

Yes, we are. Even though, God, I say that as if formal, formal dress isn't my arch nemesis. So if you're cool with me just like chilling out on a red carpet looking cash, then hire me. But put Chris in a tux. Here's what our vibe will be. You'll be the on-camera talent, and I'll be, like, whispering in your ear is what we'll do. Or we're both on-camera talent, and then every time it cuts to us, we have a brooch that is slightly increasing in size. And throughout the evening, our brooches start to wage war with each other and overtake

ourselves and they become sentient. Sure, sure, sure. Yes. What did I just... Oh, I was going to make a Serrano de Bergerac reference, and then I thought, oh, maybe that's a sore subject, considering Gerard de Parjou was the president of the Canjury that awarded Billy August his second Palm Door. Almost as if it is an objectionable palm win.

around. Listen, Pedro Almodivar was on that jury, so take it up with your friend, and we'll talk about it. Listener, you heard it here. Joe says that Pedro Almodovar is my friend. I'm, who am I to question him? In the same tone that you say Paya Khan is my friend. I want you to say Pedro. Amadova is my friend. Billy August I think the most forgotten double palm winner Yeah

At least here in the States I don't know What His reputation might still be in Denmark But Well apparently in like recent years He just like Started making

Not making films but like working Within the Chinese film industry Mm-hmm. So that's interesting. Yeah, I'm trying to think of, like, going back even just as far as, like, the 80s. And, like, people who are palm winners, who are folks who are, like, maybe just, like, unlikely. I think of, like, Roland Jaffe, you know what I mean, for the mission in 1986. Like, that's a filmmaker I know of.

And I'm like, oh, he's won a palm. That's, like, kind of interesting. because I never think of his reputation as being quite that elevated. Do you know what I mean? The Mission is kind of a movie that's been memory hold, though. Because that's the Best Picture Nominy as well, correct? Yes, I've talked about it on like multiple podcasts, though. So, like, I am not the audience to say that way.

Because for me, I'm just like, oh, yes, the mission. Like, I remember it specifically. Beautiful looking. A beautiful movie to look at. Ranking the... I found it a snooze. Ranking the double palm winners is an interesting thing to do now that Christian Mnjou has won his second palm.

But... And has been a sort of recent topic of conversation because Ruben Ossalind's one, two, within the last decade. But I do feel like there is a... One of the things I love about can discourse is probably one of the things that probably turns a lot of people off is just how parochial it is. But like that parochial nature also leads to discussions like this of like, is somebody like at the level that they should have two palm doors? You know what I mean? It's like that I kind of, I kind of dig that, you know, heightened conversation of like, this is only. for like the best of the best.

You know what I mean? So, um... You know, the other thing about double palm winners, because I remember when Ruben Uslan won his second one, and people were like, already? We're giving this guy a second one already. Usually, most of the double palm winners do win them in pretty quick succession. Yeah. Christian Manchu actually has the longest distance between his two palms at almost 20 years.

What were the Dardan's? The Dardens were, like five years apart or something like that? Six years apart. Oh, okay. Now I'm picturing your response to like somebody winning a double palm

that you don't think is worthy like Billy August or Eustland and you being like, I'll give you double palms right here or something like that. I was just making the double jerk off. Oh, oh, oh, you're going to get a demure all of a sudden, all of a sudden, Maybe.

Maybe. It's fascinating discussion, though. I genuinely feel this way. You also have Emir Kusurika as a double winner who it's leaked. One of his goes to when father was away on business, a movie that at the very least

exists as a title. Yes. Well, the other thing about Billy August's second palm win in 1992 for a film called, we should say, the best intentions, that was based on in Igmar, Bergman script that was a semi-autobiographical Ingmar Bergman script.

That also exists as a mini-series. I was going to say it's... I always forget if it was miniseries first and then they cut it down to a movie, or if it was, here's the movie. We're going to show it in a mini-series extended version, too. And I understand that that kind of thing is maybe the taboo, the level of taboo of that feels different from country to country. But like...

Particularly when you're talking about Bergman, who also, you know, had expanded versions of his films. But it is somewhat galling when you're like, oh, you want a second palm? That second one better have been totally undeniable. And then the first thing you read about it is just like, well, it was a television film. It's just like, God damn it.

Let's talk about Billy August's palms before we get into the non-musical Les Miserables. I say that as if Victor Hugo's Le Miserables. hasn't been adapted into various, various forms. What are you talking about? I'm unfamiliar. I mean, the Leu Miserav novel has been adapted into... I know, I'm being...

Graphic novels, stage music... Since basically... Yes. ...publication, you know. But for reasons of the timing, it's interesting that this movie exists when it was made. We'll get into it. Billy August's first palm comes in the

1988 ceremony I can't necessarily argue with this poem I haven't seen a ton of these movies though in the lineup and Pele the Conqueror is fine Pretty well regarded I feel like Sure I don't think it's You have many people watching it now

Or talking about it much now Competition that year you had Claire Deney doing the original version of Chocolat that was remade by Lassa Hallstrom several years later. It's not an original. It is a different movie. So that's interesting. You are trolling me. That is her debut.

You also have Clint Eastwood for Bird in that lineup. Other recognizable names such as Paul Schrader, Peter Greenaway, Carlos Saurra, Issao, Chris Menjee's also has this movie that at the time

was really appreciated called A World Apart and now no longer exists. Chris Menjee's most known for as a cinematographer, cinematographer of, among many other things, the mission. So we're bringing it all back together. Gary Sinise had a film there called Miles from Home, starring Richard Gear. So there's a Japanese Wuthering Heights that is somewhat intriguing to me. I'm sure there's definitely people clinging to walls like their sex organs in that version.

Paul Schrader's movie that year was his Patty Hurst movie, which I've never seen. But I imagine just the idea of Paul Schrader making a Patty Hurst movie is somewhat intriguing to me. Can we fall down another rabbit hole of unrelated topics to the movie we're discussing? Us? Why would anybody expect us to do that? The news that Paul Schrader admitted to having an AI girlfriend, which we're like, Paul, we know, we know. The thing about Paul Schrader... But that his AI girlfriend broke up with him.

Paul Schrader's one of those people where, like, almost anything, I'd be like, yeah, that's probably right. Of course. Like, anything you could hear about Paul Schrader. Just like, yeah, that tracks. If we ever needed confirmation that all heterosexual men require from women is reassurance. And they need nothing else from them whatsoever. Paul Schrader and Zach Braff having AI girlfriends is definitely... The fact that the two people most well-known for having AI girlfriends are Zach Braff and Paul Schrader is also objectively very funny.

Like, it's just... Right now, it's just those two jokes. It is an other two joke. Yes, it is. Well, also, Paul Schrader jokes all seem like the slightly less severe versions of 30 Rock Mickey Rourke jokes. Right? Sure. Like how Jenna Maroney, you know, had all of those awful life experiences with Mickey Rourke.

It feels like Paul Schrader's just like a slightly less severe version of that. So I have no qualms with Billy August's first palm. However, when you get to the 1992 Festival, when he wins again for the best intentions, I'm sure I've bitched about this on other episodes. You almost certainly have, yeah. Our far and away episode, because that movie closed this can back when we had closing films at can. I mean, Billy August is in possession of Terrence Davies's palm for The Long Day Closes. This is a pretty... Happy Pride season, everyone. Go watch The Long Day Closes.

I still have to watch that. But also, just in terms of, like, because The Long Day Closes is definitely, like, well-remembered in Terrence Davies is a phenomenal filmmaker. Like, even if you were like, well, you know, it's, you know, not enough of a major work or whatever, this is also a year where, like, Howard's End and the player are both in competition. Howard's End and the player both being like two of the defining movies, I feel like, of that year. Weird that Gary Sinise had movies in competition both of these years. Yes. I don't think of Gary Sinise is this, like, prolific filmmaker. And yes, yet he has movies in each of these years that Billy August has won.

Gary Sinise working. He's on one of those, like, cop shows, right? He just showed up in something recently where I was like, oh, Gary Sinise. Well, he was in, of course, Joe Bell in 2020. No, but, oh, I guess, okay, this is, yeah, it's not anything recently. It's that I was, because of the girl who's in Obsessed, was on 13 reasons. I fell down a rabbit hole of like the final season of 13 reasons why and was reminding myself of how insane that was.

And Gary Cinnies shows up as the shrink in the final season of 13 reasons why. I don't think he's really good in obsession, a movie I otherwise find highly objectionable. Yeah, you're like the one person who I, who doesn't love that movie. If I, if I, if I like expounded on my thoughts about it, I would just be that annoying person, I accept I'm that annoying person about that movie. I think people are giving that movie credit for things that are like explicitly not communicated in the movie. Interesting.

But you also haven't seen it, so I don't really have to. I haven't seen it yet. I want to. I've been ridiculously, weirdly too busy to go to the movies for like three weeks, and it's like, bugs are crawling on my skin. I'm just, it's... I mean, I'm... I really think your first priority should be taking your nephew to see sheep detectives.

I broached the subject, and he seemed slightly trepidious, but we'll see. At the very least, we'll watch it when it comes on home video. Yeah, and he'll be like Uncle Joe, why are you crying? I do want to see that just for me, so, yes. Sure. Also at the 92 can, Twin Peaks Firewalk with me, which was really poorly, received at the time. And now people are like, what do you mean it played that can?

It's got Fire Walk with Me and Basic Instinct at the same competition, which is kind of amazing. I kind of love that the Lumet movie in competition is the Melanie Griffith movie, A Stranger Among Us, that I remember being fairly poorly reviewed. But so it goes. Who else is in... One of the very few of Victor Airyce movie. There's a Hal Hartley film in this competition. Alison McLean, who directed Jesus' Son many years later,

has a movie called Crush in competition with Marsha Gay Hardin in the lead role. Who won prizes at this? Let's see, who else won prizes? Terrence Davies, it should be noted, won nothing. One nothing. Yeah, Billy August wins the Palm. The Stolen Children by Johnny Arnelio wins the Grand Prix. Jury Prize was a tie between Victor Erease for Dream of Light and Vatali Kenevsky for an independent life.

Pernilla August, Billy's wife, won Best Actress for the Best Intentions, and then Tim Robbins. The player wins for Tim Robbins actor and Robert Altman for director. I do feel like, in retrospect, the player, seems like the movie that, like, would have made the most sense to have won the at this awards. But maybe Gerard de Perdue just really, really loved watching television. And they gave the anniversary prize to Howard's End.

To Howard's End. Camera Door went to John Totoro. John Totero, as a filmmaker, is sort of an under-discussed thing, where he's directed like several movies. He got a little spotlight thing on Criterion Channel recently or semi recently for the movies he directed. I've still never seen romance and cigarettes, a movie that I feel like I had been like

was in the like coming this year kind of thing for about three years back in the other odds. It was just like constantly like getting pushed back. And when people saw it, they were like, ooh. Yeah, people didn't like it. I still have never seen it, possibly for that reason. If you disagree with me and you love the best intentions, all my warm regards and respect to you,

but Billy August is in possession of Terrence Davies' poem. Can I tell you something about John Tudorro? He is apparently in Tom McCarthy's upcoming film. Sure is. Tom McCarthy, has Tom McCarthy made a movie? since... The bad Matt Damon, one that came out during... Oh, right.

You say it's the bad one, but I know that some people like Stillwater. Stillwater. Yes. But yes, this will be his first directorial effort since then. Paul Rudd, Paul Giamatti, Evan Peters, Tatiana Maslani, John Tuchero, Amy Ryan, Dylan Baker, Jason Clark, Zach Woods, Noah Robbins, Michael Cerveris.

Mary Catherine Garrison? from somebody somewhere? We love that. Nina Arianda? Michael Shurness? Damn. That's a fucking cast. Very promising. You go, Tom McCarthy. And it's set in the 80s. And it's a like a political black comedy.

This all sounds fun. This all sounds great. Okay. So we're meandering. We're meandering. We're off the beaten path. Let's maybe start setting the state. for Billy August's non-musical... The non-musical... Les Miserables.

I had seen this when it came out, and I remember not liking it, but I didn't remember the degree to which... You're not just releasing a non-musical version of this story at, like, the height of the popularity for this musical. Was it? I don't... I guess...

I mean, it's like... It's been on Broadway. way for a decade. I was going to say like firmly touring. Yeah, but like height of popularity feels like it may be a little bit past it's the height of it's starting to maybe wind down in its popularity. Certainly it's like indelibly known in the culture as a musical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. Because you also have Phantom at this time too. Like those are like kind of the two big dog musicals. I suppose there's also Miss Saigon, but Miss Saigon people were always a little like, oh. And, And, you know, talk that it was just about the helicopter that they put on stage.

It does. It is somewhat like if maybe around 2015 that somebody did a version of Wicked that was just an adaptation of Gregory McGuire's novel without the songs. Like, it's sort of like, it's that same vibe. Yeah. And, like, wouldn't that have been strange? But what I think is even... And if it was directed by the Dardens. Again, respect to Billy August.

I don't even think he's on the level of the Dardens. Filmmakers who, for the most part, I don't really like their movies. For most of the ones that I've seen, where a lot of them, it's like, I can respect what this is, but I don't like this. Sure. I think the even stranger thing is how truncated the narrative is here. And for a movie that's pretty long, that's pushing two and a half hours, it's like 2.17 or something. It feels like it's truncated, but it also, in certain parts, feels elongated. Because I feel like we're a long, long time before we get to the,

flash forward where like Cosette is an adult. Like we're spending, like, Fontein doesn't die until like halfway through this movie. Yeah, about an hour into the movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's two hours and 15 minutes ish. But yes.

Which, I didn't know whether part of it was that like, well, we've got Uma Thurman. We're not going to just like, kill her off the evening. This was the other thing is that, like, I remember being very, very anticipatory of this movie just because it was this kind of all-star teaming of actors who were incredibly hot right at that moment on a prestige level, on like a Oscar level, where it's like, wait a second, are you telling me that like Liam Neeson from Schindler's List and Jeffrey Rush from Shine and Uma Thurman from Pulp Fiction and of course, like my beloved Claire Danes from my so-called

Life and also Romeo plus Juliet are all going to be in the same movie together based on this hugely like prestigious property. I was just like rare, I was, you know, I was the 17 year old who was just like, give me that shit.

I want it. The three of those four floating heads on the poster are at most five years out from an Oscar nomination. Right. Yeah. And one of them had just won. What's wild is like this is basically

Jeffrey Rush cashing in on his Oscar win. It absolutely is. Even though it does come out as the same year as Shakespeare in Love and Elizabeth. So it's like, it's the big,

it's kind of the big Jeffrey Rush, like, follow-up year. It's when he is cashing in on all of his shine stock, and this is what comes out first. And it's the only one in which he's, would you call him a co-lead in this movie or no? Yes, because this is part of the movie's problem.

Maybe we'll get there on the other side of the plot description. But, like, this movie is a, effectively, kind of just about the relationship of Jean Valjean and Javert. Absolutely. Yes. And even that, it's like stretching it out as much as you can, but also not showing the full relationship at the same time. It's very, yes, we will get into it.

It's, it also, it, I mean, I'm going to spend a lot of this episode comparing it to the musical. I'm sorry, it's just the context that I have. Happy Tony week. But the fact that it ends on this, like, note of, like, finally, Valjean is free. And I'm like, doesn't he, like, die, like, a minute later in the story? Like, isn't that the whole? And then I was like, wait a second, what does Hugh Jackman's Jean Valjean die of in the movie musical? And I'm like...

Old. He dies of old? Okay. So is he older in the musical at this movie? stage than he is in the movie because in the movie he does not look old enough to be dying of old. I'm pretty sure he dies. He's supposed to have died of old. Okay.

Yeah, because I was like, I don't remember. But then again, you know, the time you're talking about, dying of old is like, you know. I mean, if you had told me that he died of whatever awful, like, plague he picked up carrying Marius through the sewers of Paris in the 1820s or wherever the fuck. Like, I believe it. He died of a rat shit infection. He died of like literal just like inhaling like particles of ratchet. It's just thick in the air down there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Choking on ratchet. God, why did I say that? Let's move on. Let's move on. Joe, we'll get into the plot description and we'll talk about some more of our complaints about this movie. Before we do, would you like to hype up the Patreon? What, what?

Hype up the Patreon. Oh, not that. Sorry, I was spending too much time with my nephew. That's probably a thing I would do with my nephew. Anyway, this had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. It's a Patreon podcast. We love it. We've been doing it for a while.

It's only $5 a month. For $5 a month, you get two bonus episodes of us doing this kind of foolishness. Every month. Two bonus episodes. It's great. That first episode comes on the first Friday of the month, and we call it an exceptions episode. And for exceptions, we cover movies, just like we do on flagship this had Oscar buzz. And they are movies that had great Oscar expectations and didn't have very rosy Oscar results, except they maybe got a nomination or two or three.

But it's still a disappointment. Movies like, let's say, for example, Brian De Palma's the Black Dahlia, or Nicholas Winding Refund's Drive, or content. or House of Gucci, or Molly's game, or The Lovely Bones, or My Best Friend's Wedding, or The Mirror Has Two Faces. Some of these movies, we love. Some of these movies, we pity. And some of these movies are our sworn enemy. Wait, which one of these movies do you think we would call our sworn enemy?

I mean, The Lovely Bones is pretty... Honestly, Nine is somewhat my sworn enemy, even though I love Fergisbee Italian. number in it. Anyway, the second episode of the month coming on the third Friday of the month is what we call an excursion. We don't talk about a movie specifically. We talk about parts of the film experience that we are obsessed with, things like we'll watch an old award show, or we'll page our way through an old issue of Entertainment Weekly's Fall Movie preview, or we will talk about the sag I'm an actor speeches, or as we did recently, do a deep dive into the Oscars Best Original Song category from the 90s and decide what we would have nominated.

We really get to go full, go to 11 on the dials of our Oscar obsession. and I think people will be excited what we're doing this month. Oh, hell yeah. Talking about the Oscar ceremony for the films of 1987. Yes, two gay guys. Talking about share. It's imagine. Likely place for them to be.

But yes. So if you want to join us for this, also we have like, as I said, multiple years worth of archives. So if you sign up right now for $5, you get like a lot of bang for your buck. So we are proud to offer you great value on your investment. So head on over to this, sorry, patreon.com slash this, had Oscar Buzz and sign up today. Joe Le Miserab Bracketts, 1998. Yes.

Directed by Billy August, written by Raphael Iglesias, based on Victor Hugo's novel, but not the Showberg-Bubial musical. Starring Liam Neeson, Jeffrey Rush, Uma Thurman, Claire Daines, our patron saint, Claire Daines, the original. Was she our first six-timers? And that's why we're big on Claire Dains. We've been doing this since so long. She might have been.

Hans Matheson, John Kenny, Jillian Hanna. And for a brief moment, as a man at a door, Toby Jones. Toby Jones, someone who we've done more episodes than who, Jeffrey Rush. By quite a bit, this is our first Jeffrey Rush episode we've ever done. This is our seventh Toby Jones episode. I'm surprised you didn't mention, by the way, as Mother Superior,

Kathleen Byron. Oh, yes, yes, of course. Kathleen Byron shows up for a minute. Your fave. Lenny James from The Walking Dead is. is, uh, on Joel Roth. What's his name? Maester Amon from Game of Thrones. Play as the priest in the beginning of the film. Lots of clergy in this, in this here film. Yeah. You have a nun number 17 in this movie getting a decent amount of screen time. Who doesn't have any screen time in this movie? I'm pretty sure. Eponine

I do not think Eponine She's credited as a character in this But like Blinkin you'll miss her I don't think she exists as an adult Like I think we only see like child Epinine Tenardier Like Another significant character

That doesn't exist in this movie The French Revolution It does sort of like Spring it on you very quickly And like does a lot of like Why are we protesting this funeral? Well this person is a general who, you know, was on our side, but they're trying to claim it as for their side.

And it's just like, oh, thank you for, like, explaining the entire political reality that we are living in right now, because we have not addressed it whatsoever. The movie opened wide May 1st, 1998. We used to have counter-programming. This is a summer movie. Yeah, yes. Smack in the middle of the summer. Go for it. Opened in fourth place with $5 million.

number one at the box office, in its opening weekend, he got game. He got game. He got game. He did have game. We cannot deny. Follow by the fourth weekend of City of Angels, the second weekend of the big hit. And then also in fifth place, Black Dog opening that weekend for $4.8 million. When I pulled that up, I was like, oh, yeah, the Jet Lee movie.

No, that's Black Mask. Black Dog is like a Patrick Swayze Trucker movie. Okay. That I definitely only know by the poster. I also had to just look up what the big hit was, and it is a... Mark Wahlberg, Lou Diamond Phillips. Mark Wahlberg, Lou Diamond Phillips, Christina Applegate, Bocheme Woodbine, and Hentonio Sabato, Jr. At least two of those people, I'm going to say, voted for.

for Trump. I'm just throwing it out there. Also opening in limited release this very weekend, Wild. The Oscar Wilde biopic features a butt-naked Jude Law. Hell yeah. Millennial Gays will remember. Joe, are you ready to give a 60-second plot description for

Les Miserables, brackets, 1998? Sure, yes. I'm winging it, but yes. All right, then your 60-second plot description starts. Now. I dream to dream there were no songs. We start on Jean Valjean, a man who has left his prison labor camp. Is he a runaway? Is he on parole?

He explains it somewhat weirdly to the priest. Whatever. He tries to steal all the silver from the priest who lets him stay with him the first night. And then the priest is like, no, cops, you should let him go. Let him be on his way because I have compassion for him. So he goes on and he takes up refuge in a town where he becomes the mayor. He's Monsieur Le Maire there. As a factory owner, he first fires poor Fantine and then takes pity on her later when she is abused by people in the streets as a sex worker

and tells her as she's dying that he is going to raise her child and protect her. And at the same time, Inspector Javert is like... Oh, sorry, 10 seconds. Yeah, that's fine. Mr. Lemaire, I know you. I recognize you from when you were working on a chain gang and has decided he is going to bring him to justice. But Valjean and Cosette, the little girl, is Cosette, escape, and run away.

And then 10 years later, Valjean and Cosette are living inside a nunnery and trying to stay out of sight. And she's like, you're not my real dad, or are you? And also, I am maintaining a chaste relationship with the kind little boy who lives on the other side of the wall. And his name is Marius. And he's involved in French student protests against the monarchy. And I love him. And we sit on a bench together.

And how dare you, dad? And meanwhile, Javert, like, once again for like the fifth time in this movie, is like, I have found you, Jean Valjean, and I'm going to arrest you. And Valjean is like, okay, but like, give me a day to nurse poor Marius back to health because Marius got shot and all of his friends got killed. And it's very sad. And because that is like, sorry, dad, I have to go live with Marius because he is my love. And we have a final showdown between Valjean and Javert. and Javert is like, you have constantly shown selflessness and goodness, and I cannot reconcile that with my constant pursuit of trying to throw you in jail. And so my world to you having been

rocked, I will place these shackles on my arms and fall backwards into the Sen. And Valjean does the Nicole Kidman just being divorced a walk of freedom and credits the end. I'm like six minutes over or whatever. Joe, well done. I think he just gave a 60-second plot description in line with the movie that really you're tracking out these plot points to their like

the full, like when you see those taffy machines where they just pull the taffy, you're like really pulling the taffy on this, just like the movie is. Except the movie doesn't really give us the full taffy of this story. Because literally

what happens in the story? right after this movie ends, Javier commits suicide. Yes. And that's a pretty significant thing to leave out of this movie. Well, no, they leave it in the movie. They just put it in at the very end, and they're just like, we're not going to, you know, address the implications of it. Basically.

Well, it's... Well, I guess maybe it's also in the musical. It's like a soliloquy number. It's impossible to not compare this to the musical. 100% 1 million percent And maybe they have like Different flaws but they're both flawed Objects because one of the things I think about the musical

Particularly its reception because like that musical was not a well-reviewed musical Right Right right Kind of famously and one of the things I think that lingered Even through its popularity Until people just became so familiar with the story that they were able to go the musical was that it moved along these huge plot points so fast that people couldn't follow it. And now you have kind of the opposite with this movie where it's just like, get the fuck on with it.

Yes. Well, the other thing is, and this is sort of a thing in the musical as well, but I think because of the songs, it, you know, it gets by. is that like the relationship between Valjean and Javert is this like, you know, Ahab and Moby Dick kind of like, you know, eternal pursuit or whatever. But it's also fairly repetitive. And it doesn't really, there's not a ton of growth in that relationship where it's just like, it's just like at multiple different occasions, Javier finds him again. And it's like, finally, I have caught you.

A constant cat and mouse that doesn't really... Right, but we're also, by the end, meant to take some, like, meaning from Javert's realization that Valjean is a good man and what have I been, you know, wasting, you know, my life on. But it's like, I don't know, it's all done in these fairly obvious broad strokes, so that by the time you get to the end of the movie, you're like, it's a little. it's a little bit like, okay, but like, it's weird that you didn't notice this all this time. I don't know. I'm bringing like weird like Cinemason's, you know, a level of people wouldn't act like this.

You know, I love... Yes. Coming to laymise and being like, that's not how people act. Like, this is a stupid thing to do. So whatever. There's something in... I don't know.

Were we different as a species just a few hundred years ago where we had face blindness to people or are Liam Dyson's wings that convincing to you were going purely on memory. So yeah, I'm sure it was a lot easier to like forget people's faces, which makes it seem yes, like it both makes sense that Javert would need a little bit of like, you know, convincing to, you know, remember Valjean at first. But it also feels like, why would you even... And again, this is like... It's a story because this is somebody who Javert,

who, like, stuck out in Javert's memory because, you know, he was the prisoner who got away or whatever. Like, that's the whole reason why there's a story. And yet, in my mind, I'm just like, how many prisoners have you, like, overseen over all these years that's just, like, really, it's just this one guy? Well, and also, you can buy... on the page, the way that it's staged.

This is someone he really only gave a passing glance to, so the memory is foggy, right? And then when he escapes and all of that, it becomes this vendetta that Javert has. Yeah. The way that this movie is blocked, shot, and edited is like, these dudes spend so much time looking at nothing but each other's face. But each other's faces, yes, this is true.

It's constantly shot, reverse shot of these long, extended, needlessly, wordy dialogue scenes where it's just like, what do you mean you don't remember this guy? You just had like a ten-minute dialogue scene with him. The other thing with Valjean, which is again, this is also a thing that exists in the musical,

there is a parable level of goodness to him and self-sacrifice to him. Once we get past the point of once we get to the part where he's

Lamar, right? Mm-hmm. Where he intervenes on Fantine's behalf, pays for her lodging, defends her against

Javert, agrees to raise her child. Before that, is like, I will pay for you to live here essentially forever. I will, you know, then ransoms the daughter, from the Tenardiers, then goes to Paris to tell the truth about the guy who's going to be jailed for being

Jean Valjean. Like, that is how he ends up exposing his identity to Javert in the first place, which originally I thought that was like Javert setting a trap for him, where he was like, I'm so sorry, sir. I, like, Mr. LaMere, I thought you were this Jean-Beljean guy, and now we found the Jean-Veljean guy and he's going to go to jail

would be a pity if, you know, nobody intervened on his behalf. But apparently it was just like, you know, he was being on the up and up with that. But anyway, it just feels like he's so exaggeratedly a good man. a, you know, a self-sacrificing, noble man, which makes this all feel especially, like I say, like a parable, like a, you know, the parable of the inspector and the good man. And what, how much is it going to take for the good man to convince the inspector that he's no longer somebody worthy of throwing in jail?

And that's all so simplistic that when you then set it against the backdrop of this revolutionary, you know, action by these students, it sort of encourages you to also see that as very simplistic. And I don't know. It's just like this is not a story that can bear complexity because of the way that it's, you know, established. Yeah. I think the kind of fatal flaw of this adaptation is that it almost wants to entirely center the Valjean-Jerve relationship to the point that the entire French Revolution is obscured. And it's a pretty basic story if there's no political context to it. Like, Valjean is supposed to, his circumstance, his life, you know, the time we spend of him, is supposed to be reflective of circumstances that would lead to the revolution. You know, he's not an every man, but like, and not to be, you know, college essay about it, but like his life exists within a political context.

And there are political reasons for the things that he goes through. Like, he, you know, he's jailed for stealing bread to feed. Right, right. The most defensible crime you could commit, right? So, yeah. Well, the other thing is like, and this happens constantly, and I think this is one of those things where I think it's a very common misconception is that, like, it's not even the French Revolution, right? Like, this is decades after the, like, when we think of, like, the French Revolution, you think of, like, the storming of the Bastille, like, beheading Marie Antoinette, all that kind of stuff. That all happened, like, three decades before. This is the Paris uprising of 1832 or whatever, which is a, you know, student protests that happened for, you know, the monarchy in the 1830s rather than the 1780s. 90s that the French Revolution happens, I'm terrible with dates. Dates are tend to be my downfall

when it comes to, I'm very good with like trivial shit, but like historical dates, awful, absolutely awful. It has to be like a famous rhyme about like in 1492 Columbus, Sylvie Ocean Blue. That number just like, got it. But anyway, but so, but because the, in effect, taking all of those essential characters to, Hugo's drama that are more explicitly tied to the political circumstances of this revolt, of this revolution, really kind of strips this of any political context. So it becomes this very vague and boring literary adaptation. You know, like there's the things that Le Miz has stuck through, you know, centuries and decades, etc.

That make it significant are now removed from it. So it's a little bit like, well, why are you doing this? Why are you essentially making it nothing but the cat and mouse between these two characters? Everything, I've never read Hugo's novel, but everything I read about it always makes it sound like something a lot more holistic and, you know, taking, in the entire sort of landscape of Paris in the 18, or sorry, the 1830s. You'll have 100-page divergences into political nuance that no action takes place. Right. And so to that, right, so then you can understand why somebody's like, well, if we're going to adapt this, we need to have more of a story. And, I mean, first of all, the idea that,

like, this was adapted, somebody read this knowledge. and was like, you know what this needs to be, is a musical. Is a work of musical theater. Um, but so you can understand why they sort of like whittled it down to the Jean Valjean story specifically. But it does create an imbalance when then, you know, particularly in a version of it like Billy August, where you, you know, it becomes so heavily the like the Liam Neeson and Jeffrey Rush show, that all the revolution stuff really comes in so late in the game and feels like such an afterthought and is literally just like, wow, you're giving Cosette's boyfriend quite the like beefed up subplot rather than like an actual like, you know, main point of

the story. And it's not what the subplotiness of that. It's so out of line with what the movie kind of wants to be about. It's only there because it feels like this shoehorned thing that's from the novel, but it's, you know... You don't really end up feeling anything when, like, all of Marius's friends get executed. I mean, you don't... It's not like you're, you know, whatever, like, cold about it. But it's just like the... Even to give the musical credit, that is incredibly impactful when all of the... those young men die and when Epinine dies and when Anjolras dies and all that sort of stuff, because at least, at the very least, the musical has invested, you know, the red and the black

song and all this sort of stuff. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of material sort of invested in. There's enough material invested in those characters. Epin, by this point, has sung on my own. You know, Anjolras has been the lead in the Do You Hip? The People Sing stuff? Like, these are major important characters. And in this, like, Lenny James, like, says a couple things about Marius as just being, like, better, like, make it back here. You know, you can, you know, woo your girlfriend later, whatever. But, like, you don't really see anything.

Yes, Gavroche getting shot is awful because it's a small child getting killed. But, like, that's really the extent of it, I feel like. And it also takes weirdly long to get to that portion of the movie. And because it's so divorced from the main thrust of the movie, it feels like this weird climax that's not really the climax of the movie, you know? Yes, I agree. Claire Daines, I don't honestly think is great either. Cosette is a debatably. interesting character.

She really is. Amanda Seifred also had problems. My favorite performance in that version of the movie. But I don't think it's because she like makes that character work. I think it's because she like sings really beautifully. Do you know what I mean? Ask her and she'll tell you differently. But yes, I think she's fantastic.

I think it's, I don't think it's a surprise that like in every version that like Fantine sort of ends up being a spotlight, not just because I Dream to Dream is such an impactful song, but because that does feel like when the movie is most locked in with the theme of the novel, which is just sort of like this kind of pitiable existence that these people were living in because of the social and economic conditions at the time. Umma All right. Umma Thurman as an actress

versus Umma Thurman as a movie star. Do you know what I mean? Like there is I think she's an incredible movie star and I think in her best most iconic roles she carries that off.

I've never really thought of her as the most adaptable actress? I think, well, you have something like hysterical blindness, which she's great in, in this kind of natural environment. Yes, very true. But I think when she is at her best, it's in things that are heightened. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call her a great camp performer, because I don't think it's necessarily camp.

Right. Like, she is, she is really at her best when she gets to play the highs and lows of things, but when you're asking for maybe more of a natural performance from her,

or something that's less stylized, like this, this is supposed to basically just asking her to give a, like, straight down the middle period drama performance, and I don't think that she is well-suited. to that. I don't think that's within her wheelhouse.

So I don't think she's bad in this movie, but I do think she's probably not the right performer for what this movie is going for. She's given the most daunting task, I think, too, because she has to make Fantine both, and I'm going to say this in the most literal definition of the term, wretched. Like, she is, like, you know, a poor wretch on the street. They give her the gray teeth. they yes and and she's like she's doing things like you know offering her body up to the landlord and all

the sort of stuff and um and to even valjean and whatever um and yet she has to also have some kind of inner strength and also some quality that would you know draw make Valjean want to essentially rescue her that goes beyond mere pity. So it's probably the most complicated character and she doesn't have,

even though she has more time in this than like Hathaway has in the musical, it still feels like it's just a lot to get across in her handful of scenes. And

ultimately, it feels a little garish to me in the presentation and whether that's partly her, that's partly the way she is filmed. It's also tricky material to not just turn into basically misery porn.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Very much so. And also it's just like, this is not Uma Thurman's fault, but when you're more than an hour or close to an hour into the movie and Fonte, is not dead, and you're like, shouldn't she be dead already? Like, tap in your watch, Judge Judy style? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this point in her career is kind of interesting. You bring up

hysterical blindness, which comes maybe like four years after this, but that's a crucial bit of context. But so, Pulp Fiction, she had been, you know, she had had a career up before Pulp Fiction. She's in Dangerous Liaison. She's in Henry in June. She's in of course Jennifer 8 we all remember where we were when Jennifer 8 landed no but Pulp Fiction is the thing that really

like makes her huge and she gets the Oscar nomination for that of course she follows that up with a month by the lake with Vanessa Redgrave what if the lake in question was an Oscar nomination follow up

right And then her cash-ins end up being the truth about cats and dogs and Batman and Robin. And also, I guess, Gattaca. But, like, truth about cats and dogs and Batman and Robin are interesting choices for her. A double feature I would probably volunteer. And I don't even love Batman and Robin, but, like, I would probably sit down for a double feature of The Truth About Cats and Dogs of Batman and Robin. I know some people are probably raising an eyebrow when I say I wouldn't call Uma Thurman a camp performer when you have something like her as poison ivy. But, like, you understand how she could fall into the camp of that, but I think it's really just, like, strong stylization is where she fits in, you know?

Even something like Kill Bill. I wouldn't call Kill Bill Camp the way that Batman and Robin is. But it's a style, right? But the whole idea about the truth about cats and dogs is you have sort of statuesque Uma Thurman and, you know, poor Janine Garofalo who can't match her up. And it's also, the subtext of it is you have, like, giant movie star Uma Thurman and, like, you know, comedian-turned actress Janine Garofalo. And so I remember the meta of it was very much just like, oh, my God, like, you know,

Uma Thurman is, you know, this Oscar nominee doing this odd comedy about, you know, it's kind of, it's a Serino de Brucheraque comedy, right? Mm-hmm. Serenot as a lady. Yeah, exactly. And then Batman and Robin is definitely a star power cash in because those Batman movies were about casting whoever was like the hottest stars at the time. And like, so that's what happened with Nicole Kidman in Batman Forever. And certainly that's the case with her in Batman and Robin.

And we all sort of, that's been kind of talked to death. But yes, um, uh, its legacy is still being debated to this day. And then she also in 97 does Gattaca and she and Ethan Hawk get together and yada, yada, yada. I love Gattaca. Gattaca is kind of also what I mean, where it's like she's just supposed to play straight down the middle, like, understated drama performance that I feel like she's not necessarily well-suited, but she's definitely better in Gattaca than she is in Le Miz because everything around her is better in Gattaca, too, you know?

In a better movie, her Le-Miz performance is probably itself comes off better. Yeah. The movie in this stretch that actually probably shows her to her best advantage is beautiful girls, where she kind of shows up in the middle of that movie, beguiles all these, you know, pitiable, these, you know, sad sack men. And then kind of breezes off. But she's so charming and so winning. And you can absolutely see how she, you know, she uses her sort of, you know, statuesque quality to her best advantage in that. So she's just like movie star among character actors in this movie. And it's perfect. It utilizes her perfectly. She's quite good in it. And that's the like sort of like the low budget kind of like cult hit among these movies.

And then 1998 is when it starts to fall apart. And it's Le Miz, but it's also, in particular, the film version of the British television series, The Avengers, that she does with Ray Fines and Sean Connery, which is one of those, like, disasters that would get, like, brought up again and again and again. of just how bad it was, just how much of a financial failure it was. And paired with Poison Ivy, which had not had the gay guy reclamation and would not for a long time, that's kind of like a one-two punch of like really reviled supposedly populist movies. And then she's essentially not allowed to be the lead in a studio movie again, until, well, I mean, I guess Kill Bill was Miramax, so Miramax was, you know,

the biggest indie, but was still probably considered indie at that moment. Although, were they owned by Disney at that point? I don't know, whatever. It's not until Kill Bill that she's allowed to be, like, the lead of a big movie again. And then Kill Bill revives her career, and then she kind of goes through the same kind of process, where it's like,

be cool as an ill-advised get-shorty sequel. And Prime is not a success. It's, you know, this small little movie, but it's her and Merrill. It probably should have done better than it was. And the producer's movie, we'll do an episode on the producer's movie. We'll investigate whether that movie was good, was well, you know, was a good thing for its stars or not. But I sort of feel like that movie doesn't do a ton for her. and my super ex-girlfriend has flop energy around it.

And then it's just like, oh, right. And then it became, oh, she can either be the lead of an indie or a supporting, she can be Medusa in the Percy Jackson movie. Or she can be, you know, what is her line in the trailer for an infomaniac? The whoring bed? Would you like to show the children the hoaring bed? The hoaring bed, yes. And I don't think, certainly in the movies,

she's ever rebounded fully to Kill Bill levels. No. Because even when she had Red, white, and Royal Blue, which again is just a TV movie. And she's a featured supporting character. Yeah, she didn't really get reclaimed in any way from that. Right. She's in Smash, of course, for five episodes. As Rebecca Duval, she's given peanuts, even though she has a peanut allergy. And then she's in the slap. Unless we forget the slap. She's the only person who bridges the smash slap NBC camp divide of the early 20 teens.

One of the early log lines for Fjord, I was like, so is this just like Scandinavian the slap? Is that the plot of Fjord? Well, because it's like, you know, Norwegian CPS gets involved because they hear that they spank their kids or something. Oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. Man, that's wild. Okay. So lately, she has become more of a TV actress, although the returns have been inconsistent, let's say, at best. She was in a supernatural horror series for Netflix called Chambers. Have you ever heard of this show? I have not. One of the actors in it, though, is Nicholas.

a galitzine who would end up being... No, he's not her son in red, white, and royal. He's the other one. He's the... Whatever. Her son's... Fuck buddy. She's in a show called Suspicion,

which was a British political thriller that I feel like I watched for work and don't remember. That was one of those Apple TV shows that doesn't really exist. People forget, with good reason, that she played Ariana Huffington in the Showtime

series, miniseries Super Pumped, which was the origin of Uber, the one where Joseph Gordon Levitt plays the guy who invented Uber, during that year and a half span where we just did TV shows about people who invented

scamy corporations. Shout out to We. We crashed, an average show that Anne Hathway is nevertheless absolutely incredible. You becoming the world's biggest We crashed fan for like a week and a half was incredible to witness. Not necessarily the show. The show is fine, but like people should watch it because it's really one of her best performances. I have heard that. I have heard that from you especially.

And now, now she's on Dexter Resurrection as a. she's either, because Dexter Resurrection is about Dexter moves to New York and falls in with a group of like, like-minded serial killers, which is kind of intriguing and makes me want to like go and watch it. And it's coming back for a second season. And I'm not sure the nature of her character, whether she's one of those serial killers, or whether she's somebody investigating those serial killers. But either way. those continuations of previous series that are still happening, like still happening, but you don't know anyone who watches them with all respect to the team involved,

because if you told me the Connors was still going, I would believe you. If you told me the Frazier continuation was still going, I would believe you. Yeah, there's no way of knowing whether they are or not. Dexter also had the problem of having, like, three separate continuations, because they also had, like, Dexter Newblood or whatever, and it's just like following his like son who is also a serial killer. And the myriad ways in which they have revived that show is, it's a lot. Anyway, I have such fondness for Uma Thurman and...

Ditto. Always sort of enjoy when she shows up. But I cannot deny that like the career has been a bumpy one. also her dad is like a famous like scholar her father is a he's a famous Buddhist author and academic did you know that I did not I knew that because a college professor was like fun fact about Uma Thurman and because we were talking this is a comparative religions class and so we were talking about Buddhism and we were reading an article and the author was Robert Thurman and he's like he's like a like, fun fact, Umah Thurman's father. So, there we go. Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson, I think, for a long time, was one of those actors who was always surprising

that he only had one Oscar nomination. And now it's kind of surprising that he has even won Oscar nomination. Well, now that we've lost him to, like, anti-vax documentaries. Well, even just, like, the, like, we, the ten, year period where he was doing like red box movies where he's um where he's still kind of doing that where he's making movies like ice road vengeance and and then the naked gun happens and it's like hell yeah this is great and then like immediately he's like talking about vaccines and it's like my guy cut it out i know we want to be happy for you there are some actors who just

I mean, if we all kind of, and I am as guilty of this as ever, sort of agreed that, like, the nature of their profession makes actors be crazy, because they have to be, like, whatever, open to all emotions at once. As much as you think you know all of his, like, horrible action movies that, like, hit theaters and such, you know, you don't understand how much, like, direct to streaming, direct to, the OD movies that he's making. He's one of those people that I'm like, maybe they think that if the cameras ever stop rolling, they will die. You know, because he just doesn't stop working. Yeah.

He's also making a movie called Hotel Tehran with Zachary Levi, and I just don't trust that movie. I don't think so. Yeah. But he's also making a black, comedy heist film directed by Frankie Shaw with him and Talia Ryder and Jack Dylan Grazer. And like, that sounds fun. So I may be in the bag for that. And then what else? Something called the Mongoose with him and it's an action thriller with him and Marissa Tomei and Vig Rames.

This feels like it has ice road ventions possibilities to it. So, but yes, Liam Neeson, in like the post-Shindler's list 90s, it was very much him doing a whole bunch of, is this his next Oscar nomination? It was Nell. And then it was Rob Roy. Rob Roy was a nominee for Tim Roth. And I would have been like interested to see where,

you know, if Liam Neeson got votes for that in Best Actor in 1995 and how high he came on the list that year. He makes a movie for Barbet Schroeder called Before and After, with him and Meryl Streep, play the parents of Edward Furlong, and he is accused of killing his... Edward Furlong is accused of killing his girlfriend, I want to say? Yeah, I thought this was like a legal thriller. They're the parents of a child who they think is a murder, and so it's like, do they cover up for him? Do they try and do everything they can to make sure he doesn't go to jail? Like this is one of those, every maybe five to ten years, there is a movie with this as a premise.

It's a very juicy premise. Would you try and protect your child if you knew he was a murderer, yada, yada? Michael Collins is the big one. Michael Collins is an exception, this had Oscar Buzz exceptions movie waiting to happen. Because it really does have, it's Neil Jordan only a few years removed from his Oscar for the Crying Game. It's Liam Neeson, only a few years removed from Schindler's list. He plays famed, real-life Irish, you know, the Freedom Fighter, Michael Collins. Julia Roberts is in this movie doing an Irish accent. God bless her.

It is a... This had Oscar Buzz movie wrapped up in a bow, and then they had to go and give it a score. No, cinematography and score. Yeah. Both of those things, Chris Menjee's once again. So we can't do it on flagship, but that is one of the big, I remember, even at my young age back then,

being like, this is the one where Liam Neeson's going to win the Oscar right here. And who won the Oscar for Best Actor that year in 1996? Jeffrey Rush. So there we go. Michael Collins, was that also a, studio film because, yes, that was a Warner Brothers movie. So that was part of the whole studio films failed us

in 1996, which is part of the reason why Jeffrey Rush is the Oscar winner for Shine that year. A performance that was originally anticipated to be considered supporting. What? Shine? Yeah. Because

it was barely in the first half of the movie. Noah Taylor is the lead. I think BAFTA nominated Noah Taylor as a lead. Might have nominated both of them as a lead, but that's fascinating. Jeffrey Rush, we talked about it a little bit at the beginning. His post-Shine Cashions are all at this point, because I think we can assume, oh, he's only the narrator for Oscar and Lucinda, so whatever.

Shine 96, he wins the Oscar, then 98 is when it's like, boom, boom, Elizabeth, Shakespeare in Love, Le Miserob. he's Oscar nominated for Shakespeare in Love playing the goofiest version of Jeffrey Rush, a version of Jeffrey Rush that at the time, I think people were probably too surprised by because it's like, he's kind of goofy and shy in too, right? Well, I do want to talk about his performance in Les Mis

a little bit before we get fully into the thing because I was watching this, and Jeffrey Rush is not a problem. performer I've ever really loved. And like now, we don't really even see him that much. And partly is because he's been, you know, accused of sexual harassment. But also, we hadn't... First of all, when he...

When Shine happens, like, nobody knew who Jeffrey Rush was. That was a huge breakout role. And, like, this is basically his follow-up to winning an Oscar. Mm-hmm. And it's Jeffrey Rush in a mode that I think audiences would become most familiar with seeing him in. So it was kind of odd to me to be like, oh, this is his performance that kind of metastasized the Jeffrey Rush thing of like stoic period drama. And even honestly, like what he's doing in Pirates of the Character. be in as Barbosa, like you see the threads

in this performance. So it's like this is kind of the beginning document for the Jeffrey Rush type, which for a kind of nothing movie is fascinating because I also don't understand the... I mean, you understand the choice of you're casting a recent Oscar winner, but the Shine performance is very different from this performance. So, you know, in modern eyes, this performance makes a lot of sense because we've seen a lot of performances like this from him in bigger movies.

But at the time, he hadn't given a performance like this unless he had done it on the stage, you know. But in film, it's an interesting pivot that would ultimately become his, like, thing. Well, I sort of, I see it kind of differently because I see the Shakespeare in love. performance in 98 as a little bit more indicative, because that to me is the version of Jeffrey Wright that we get in the Bangor Sisters and intolerable cruelty. And I do see that version of him in the Pirates of the Caribbean stuff, you know, where he's a voice in finding Nemo.

And even like, it's interesting that his two Oscar nominations, wait, two of the, his two lead Oscar nominations, because he's got three total, he's got Shrine, experience in love and then quills. But like, Shine and Quills are both serious movies that require their lead actor to behave over the top. You know what I mean? And so that sort of feels like, that to me feels like the Jeffrey Rush thing of like, we have a prestige project. We need somebody who can overdo it

in a way that is within the bounds of what we want. What I think is interesting when you say, when you talk about his Le Miz performance, that's the version of Jeffrey Rush you see in

the King's speech, I think a little bit, or like Munich. I think the Quills' performance is closer to this than it is shine. I understand and categorizing it as a performance that's kind of going big. But it's like maybe the campier version of what he's doing in this movie, I think. It's definitely campier.

Like, I definitely think that. God, he was also in that horror movie, The Rule of Jenny Penn last year, that I just did not want to watch because I was just like, it just seemed grim and, like, not fun. But him and Lifgow is just like, well, these are now two people who I don't want to watch things. Right. There it is. Do we want to talk about Claire Daines, even though we've probably talked enough about Claire Daines over the years?

She does seem kind of plucked from another movie in this. Because it feels like she's, again, Cosette, not a very interesting. character. Not a bit. And especially in like the context of this, where it's like she just kind of monologues while staring out a window. It does feel like adjacent to her little women performance

of that I think is a much better performance. I definitely feel like she got cast because like they were like they watched Little Women as opposed to they watched Home for the Holidays or Romeo and Juliet even. They watched Little Women even I could see even a little of like my so-called life in there where it's just like

Because at this point she's still like cool zeitgeisty and it makes your movie look cooler to have her into a certain like set of your audience. Yes. Do you know what movies she's in this same year though that I weirdly watched like multiple times because it was on the campus, the movie channel all the time? Polish wedding. I've seen like multiple times. Tell us about Polish wedding. It's just a movie where, you know, it's a Polish-American family, and she, I believe, is the bride? Yeah. No, no. She's the sister of the bride, I believe. But anyway, big family wedding. And she's, you know, the young daughter who's like dating somebody who's, who's, you know, you know, everybody has sort of like, you know, a problem with it, as I recall. I remember the guys being like really handsome in this movie. But it's somewhat, you know, comedic. It's, you know, this kind of slice of ethnic American life kind of a thing. It's like about. Lena Olin and Gabriel Byrne are the married couple at the center of it. They're the parents of, I believe, the girl who, getting married and they're very kind of like sexy with each other.

It's likable. It's enjoyable. Oh, that's what it is. I think Claire Daines reveals that she's pregnant. Interesting. I think. This is where I'm like literally, I haven't seen this since I was in college, but I saw it multiple times when I was in college today. She's good in it, though. Joe, before we maybe like drift our way towards the plot description and our final thoughts on this movie, I want to give you a hypothetical on the spot. Do it. Let's take it back to Liam Neeson.

Because I think Liam Neeson is never really close to an Oscar nomination again until 2004's Kinsey. I think maybe he had early buzz until people saw the movie in regards to silence. Yes. silence. Yes. Because he's not really in much of that movie. Right. Though I will say, like, Scorsese kind of seems to know what to do with Liam Nissen, particularly in these supporting roles. He's good in Gangs of New York as well. That's another one where he's in it very briefly, but yes.

However, around this time, Spielberg was still kicking around trying to get the Lincoln movie made, and Liam Nissen was attached to it for a long time. Can you give us a somewhat alternate history? I know that this is kind of on the fly. What happens if Liam Neeson does star in the Lincoln movie? In this version, when does Lincoln come out? Let's say it just comes out in the same year that it comes out. Okay.

Well, I don't think he's as strong of an Oscar contender as Daniel Day Lewis, because who is? I think, well, you have to make the decision right away. Does the Liam Neeson version of Lincoln work or not work? You know what I mean? Because if it doesn't work, then Lincoln doesn't get nominated. And then who wins best actor if Lincoln's not around? Is it Bradley Cooper? Does Bradley Cooper win in his first nomination for Silver Linings Playbook in 2012?

Hmm. Because your other nominees are, Joaquin for the master who's not going to win Hugh Jackman for Le Miz who's not going to win I actually think Hugh Jackman would win Do you think so? I do not think they're giving two acting awards To Le Miz that year I just don't see it happening That movie made so much money

It did but also they were looking for I think they would have found it somewhat irresistible to give his and hers Oscars to Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence There was a time where Silver Linings Playbook was like considered a spoiler to win best picture that year. That's true. Who's the fifth nominee that year?

Denzel for flight. Who I don't think is going to win either. But if it does work, the question then becomes is Neeson, that's a pretty good story. You know what I mean? It's a little bit of a comeback story. He, by that point, has made, you know, a little bit. lot of money for a lot of folks. For as much as we've, you know, find his personality maddeningly volatile, he does seem to be somebody people seem to like to work with.

I mean, Laura Lennie. Laura Linnie is his best friend. That speaks well for him. So Laura would be stumping on the campaign trail for him. Here's one wrinkle that I do want to throw into the mix. His 2012 movies are Wrath of the Titans, Battleship, Taken 2, and

cameo in Dark Night Rises. And the gray. The gray is 2011. Oh, but I... Maybe it premiered in 2011 and opened in January 2012. It opens in January 2012, but yes. I think if he makes Lincoln,

he doesn't make Wrath of the Titans battleship and taken two. Or taken to, maybe it's later. Maybe Taken 2 get pushed. He definitely still makes taken 2, but not to later. Yeah, the fact that, though, the fact that this would come after he's taken Liam Mason,

so then it feels like it really shows his versatility that he can do the Taken movies and now come back to prestige. I do think he does win best actor. Does Mary Todd get played by Laura Linney in this version of events? And does she end up getting another Oscar nomination in place of the Sally Field Oscar nomination?

Because Daniel Day Lewis heavily pushed for Sally Field to get that role. Yes. That's an interesting question. It is an interesting question. I like interesting questions. Yeah, that is a fascinating counterfactual. Does Daniel Day Lewis, because then he only has two Oscars, does he have a better show? at winning best actor for Phantom Thread. Yes.

Yes, and it becomes a different conversation from the outset, which sort of helps to stall Oldman's momentum. Because Oldman, that was a performance that, for as many people as liked it, some people also sort of recoiled from it. And also, even though he is now becoming. much more friendly to awards voters. For a long time, he was like persona non grata with awards voters.

So, yeah, that's interesting. I think, yes, probably that would have been the case. Do you think he makes movies like non-stop, if Liam Neeson has an Oscar at that point, that the Takens are already happening? Because what I would argue is movies like nonstop don't exist, but he makes a lot more money for the Takens because he already has an Oscar.

And then it's just like all of that could get focused onto the Taken franchise. The Taken franchise is therefore even bigger than it already is and he makes more money off of them. Here's my other question to you. Does he get a Halo nomination for widows? No. Okay. Too small overall. Really?

I think that's the perfect... See, I think our minds have been warped by category fraud, because I feel like that is the perfect size for a supporting nomination. But he... Yes, it's a surprise that he... Spoiler alert for that movie that we definitely have talked about all the time. It's a surprise that he's still alive at the end, but, like, I don't really think he has that much to do once that reveal happens.

Because he spends most of the movie, like, we think he's just, like, not a literal ghost, but, like, we see him in flashbacks. in that way. Honestly, and also, I mean, the thing about widows is that, like, probably deserved, like, three supporting actor nominees. Yeah. And that's before we even get to Liam Neeson, because it should have been Brian, Tyree, Henry, Daniel Kaliaiaa, and Colin Farrell. Don't say anything about Robert Duval. He's dead. Don't say anything mean about Robert Duval. He's dead. I wasn't going to say that. I was going to say, almost as if it's an incredible fucking movie. Yes. Which it is. All right.

Anything else we wanted to get into in terms of like the miscellania of it all? Did Lema's 98 get any kind of nominations for anything? It got one nomination in its awards tab, and that is for the Cairo International Film Festival. It played in competition at the Cairo International Film Festival, where it lost to a film called Mali, directed by Santos Sivan. So there's that. What else competed in that field? Anything that I might have heard of?

Not really. Interesting. So yeah, nothing doing. The awards has the A team in his known for. Can't tell if that's a kindness or a cruelty. Listen, he loves when a plan comes together. and what else can we say? Do we want to do IMDB game?

Yeah, would you like to explain to the listeners what the IMDB game is? We haven't done one in a month. I know, we haven't. Welcome back to the world of the IMDB game. Every week we're under episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with the name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles

that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mentioned that up front, after two wrong guesses we get the remaining titles release years as a clue and if that is not enough it just becomes a free for all of hints it's the i mdb game joe we're back to the i mdb game are you giving first are you guessing first how do you want to kick things off i'll give first okay who do you have for me so one thing we didn't mention is that the very next year after

le mesarab uh leum nison would co-star with billy august's wife Or recently, I think it's recently ex-wife. I think they had just gotten divorced in 97. Hold on. Let me clarify. Let me clarify. Billy August. Yes.

So the very next year after Le Miserab, Liam Niesin would co-star with Billy August's ex-wife, Pernilla August, in a little film called Star Wars Episode 1. the Phantom Dennis. You may have heard of it. She plays Shmi Skywalker, who is the mother of the first. Of course, Anakin Skywalker. Other folks were in that movie, many of whom we have done IMDB games before, but one,

we have not. And that is our friend Warwick Davis, famous for playing, among others, a Wicked the Ewak in the original trilogy. So, four films, no television,

no voice-only performances, and have at it. Warwick Davis. There are so many options and so many franchises, but I do think

the first thing I have to get on the board before I get any franchises wrong is Willow. Willow, absolutely. Yes. Title character. Character.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. No. Damn. Warwick Davis is in Lord of the Rings, right? So I'll say Fellowship of the Ring? No. And I'm not entirely sure if he is in Lord of the Rings, but hold on. Let me look.

He is not. Damn. Why do I think that Warwick Davis just, like, does every franchise? Anyway, screen legend. Yes. All right. So now I get my. years. Oh, yes. So your years are

1992, 2004, and 2005. Oh. 92, leprecon. It is 92, is lepracon. Motherfucker. The one franchise that I should have said. He plays

the titular lepricon and lepracon. Yep. I don't think he stays the lepercon, though. I don't think he's going to space. I think he goes to the hood, but I don't think Warwick Davis goes to space. Let's see. He is in Lepricon in 92, Leprecon 2 in 94. And then he's in a movie in 1998 called A Very Unlucky Leprikan, but I don't think that's the same thing. Leprocon romantic

comedy. Like it kind of is. A very unlucky leprechaun has great adventures. It's the logline for a very unlucky lepracron. So yeah, that is not the Leprocon franchise. So yeah, he's only in the first two, apparently. Okay. My years are in the odds. O-4 and O-5. Yes. These are going to be challenging for you, but we can do this.

O-F, it's good. I was about to say O-5 is Revenge of the Sith, but if it's going to be challenging, then no, it's not. It's not. Okay.

Okay. O-3-05. O-5. Oh, five. Are these franchises? No. They are not franchises. One of them is based on a beloved cult novel.

One of them is a biopic. Interesting. One of them, it's the opposite of a voice-only performance in that he, he portrays the character but not the voice. Yeah, I was about to say Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. He's Marvin the paranoid, but Ellen Rickman provides the voice. So O5 biopic.

No, O-4 biopic. Hitchhiker's Guide is O-5. Of course it wasn't Revenge of the Sith because it's not O-5. An O-4-Bio... Revenge of the Sith is O-5. Yes, but you didn't say O-5. Or was... Yeah, hitchhiker's guide is 05.

Why did I think it was 03? I'm clearly out of sorts. That's okay. Focus. 04. Biotic. Biopick. Not Kinsie.

Not Kinsie. Is he in Ray? He is in Ray. I had to look it up to remember who he is. He is a, he owns a, like, like a club, like a music club, like in Mississippi. in the beginning, in the early goings of Ray. Yes. Isn't that something that that's not his known for?

Warwick Davis. Interesting. No franchises. No Star Wars, no Harry Potter in Warwick's known for. Crazy to me. But okay. Good for Warwick Davis. I suppose in that the fact that he's like buried deep in the cast lists of both of those movies.

Well, but it's also just like when you can somehow escape your known for just, being franchises, that is a pretty, like, baller move. Yes, it is a baller move. I agree with that. All right, who do you have for me? Because you get some of these people that it's just like, you know them for so much, but because they're in, like, a deep bench franchise, that's all that shows happens. Yes. Come on.

Yes. He's also in multiple Chronicles of Narnia movies, I think, playing different characters. No. it's just Prince Caspian. Never mind. Never mind. For you, I have selected from the Billy August filmography. Between his double palm wins and Les Miserab, he made a film called Smilla's Sense of Snow. Yes.

Movies that exist only as a title. Smilla's Senses to Snow. This cast member is also a headliner from the movie you surprisingly brought up. I was a little worried. we would have picked the same person, was also in Polish wedding. Ah. Gabriel Byrne.

Gabriel Byrne, okay. I mean, Gabriel Byrne and no television. No television. So no entreatment. Interesting. Okay. So, Gabriel Byrne's going to be one of those people

where it's like, do you talk about the movies where he's a lead that are maybe less prominent? and then the movies where he has a supporting role but are more prominent movies. I'm going to start by guessing the usual suspects. Correct. So I'm thinking little women as a possibility. I'm thinking hereditary as a possibility,

but I'm also thinking it could be stuff like the dark half or... No, wait, he's not the dark half. That's Timothy Hutton. What's the one where he plays the devil? End of days? I can't remember. But he's also in, like, cool world. I'm going to guess little women.

Little women is incorrect. What other... He's in, like, Vanity Fair as the... I think he's the villain in that movie. I'll guess Hereditary. Hereditary is correct. Okay, okay. So we've got hereditary on the usual suspects.

Um, Gabriel Byrne. He's in quite many things. Um, so no little women, that's somewhat interesting. I am going to guess, end of days. God damn it, end of days is correct. Yes! Got it. So mad.

I was like, that's funny. Part of the reason why I picked it. All right, I'm going to probably need a year, so I'm just going to burn a guess on Cool World. Cool World is incorrect. Your year is 1990. 1999, isn't that the same year of Stigmata where he's in the end of days and Stigmata? I think it's around that time, yeah. Wait, 1990.

Is he in the Dark Half? Am I misremembering? That is Timothy Hutton in the Dark Half. You know why you think it's Gabriel Burn in the Dark Half? Why? Because the poster where you see like the face in the trees or whatever, it does not look like Timothy Hutton. No, it doesn't. So you never think that it's Timothy Hutton in that movie.

For the longest time, I thought Pierce Brosnan was in that movie because the face on the poster made by the trees looks more like Pierce Brosnan than it does Timothy Hutton. Is Gabriel Byrne in like Darkman or something? He might be, but that is not correct. I will look up if he isn't Darkman. I don't know why I keep thinking... Darkman. Is Liam Neeson? Yes, of course. In Dartmouth.

1990... He is not in Darkman. 1990, Gabriel Byrne. Is it like a crime thriller? Yes, actually. Is it something you think I've seen? You definitely know this movie if you haven't seen it. I mean, it's very, very famous directors.

Directors. Oh, it's Miller's Crossing. I'm so stupid. I walked myself into that. No, but I should have gotten that. That's crazy that I didn't think of that for now, of course. It's because you never think of them in conjunction with the Coens because that's the only Cohen's movie he's done.

Yeah, that was stupid of me. Okay. Live and Learn. I did get end of days before I got Miller's Crossing, so there's that. Already, that's our episode. If you want more of this had Oscar Bose, you can check out the Tumblr at this Oscarbuzz. Tumblr.com. You can also follow us on Instagram at ThisHad Oscar Buzz

and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? I am Patreon, no, I don't know why I said that, Blue Sky and Letterboxed at Joe Reed, read-spelled, R-E-I-D. I am also at Vulture doing vulture things all the darn time. And you can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at

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