This Had Oscar Buzz - 397 – The Thin Blue Line (w/ Pamela Ribon!)

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

We welcome back Oscar-nominated My Year of Dicks filmmaker Pamela Ribon this week for [gasp] our very first documentary episode! In 1988, Errol Morris made a documentary hit out of The Thin Blue Line. Detailing police corruption and bias that led to the wrongful conviction of Robert W. Wood for a police shooting, the film became a non-fiction … Continue reading "397 – The Thin Blue Line (w/ Pamela Ribon!)"

Hello, the right house. I didn't get mad. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. You get numb. You get, it's like a bad girl. You want to wake up. What you can't do it?

Randall never had any prior record. And as far as we know, he never had any history of violence, whatever. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast doing our washing machine calisthenics in crisp white linen. Every week on this had Oscar buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another at all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy.

I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as always with my rubber-necking looky-loo, Chris File. Hello, Chris. I tried to figure out who I wanted to be a little careful about who I, like, placed you as in the story as we were going to be talking about this. but I figured the sassiest most, like, could have been in the movie Bernie character possible. I figured I would hand to you. Well, you know, I would have been very flattered by any of the,

we can't call them characters, but any of the... This is how they gotten into trouble with the Oscars. Any of the female interviewees, I would have thought you would have called me, like, your spilled Burger King Shake. Well, we'll talk about it. Bering degrees of viscosity. in those Burger King shakes.

Yes. I literally, and I literally had a Burger King shake earlier today, so I can have expert testimony. Wow, you had it your way. I literally, I fell prey to the commercial campaign where they're like, we made it better. It's fine. It's so much better. Please save us. And honestly, that was a little better.

I want to bring in our guests to talk about Burger King and other things. You know, it pains us to leave the guests hanging on the vine for too long. a returning guest, one of our favorites, an Oscar nominee, a hung out with Lady Gaga at the Oscars. My only friend who hung out with Lady Gaga at the Oscars. That is a real stretch, but I'll take it. Screenwriter, filmmaker, all-around, awesome person. Pamela Ribbon, welcome back to this had Oscar buzz. Thank you so much.

No, hanging, I'm going to stick by that. You rubbed elbows, I'm going to say literally, with Lady Gaga. Sure. One could call it verbally. attacked at her while she tried to get on an elevator. Listen, you weren't doing that for a TikTok. They didn't let my elbows. Our elbows were far away from each other because we slightly almost hugged.

And it was one of those wide arm, like, dirty dancing tutorial arm elbow. Yes. So we couldn't have rubbed elbows. Our elbows were very far away. Sure, sure. Every other body part was closer than elbows. Yes. Yes.

Nothing was closer than my dreams. Yes, well, of course. Very close to Lady Gog. Welcome back. Thrilled to have you back. Thank you. Somehow not for Magic Mike. Last dance.

Last dance. You know that I have it right at the ready at any moment to talk about. That's still in the holster for the future, though, so don't worry about that. We won't give any more Magic mics away to anybody but you. But we wanted to talk about, well, first of all, I saw. you were Instagramming about a project that you have coming up. And I said, Pam's doing a movie. We wanted to have you back anyway. I was like, we never get to do documentaries. So like, wouldn't it be cool to have Pam on to do a documentary? And thus, that's why career cop,

Pamela Ribbon, is here to talk about the thin blue line. Yeah, that's right. Ask me about my knowledge of the police. I'll never stop. Well, it's almost as big as my knowledge about documentaries because I'm making my first one. So I'm learning constantly what's going on. It seems like such a cool project. So I want you to just sort of like take a minute and tell our listeners what One Act is. And then we will ask you questions about it. Okay, sure.

So One Act, you can go to One Actfilm.com to learn and see a teaser or anything about what I'm working on. But I've always wanted to make a documentary because I love them. And I love documentaries in particular about like underdogs and weird worlds. So this has everything in it. I in high school participated in this program. It's almost 100 years old turns 100 next year, which is the reason I decided to go ahead and do this. In Texas, throughout Texas, every spring, instead of Friday Night Lights, there is the same level of competition with the same divisions and the same schools battling against each other. timed competition called one act play. You have seven minutes to set up, 40 minutes or less to

perform, or seven minutes to strike or you're disqualified. This is usually a cutting from a play that could be steel magnolias or equis or Shakespeare or an original work rarely, but it happens. Yeah. That has to be approved by your community and the UIL library and also that playwright if you're trying to do like Brecht. And you have a team of 24 with four alternates. Your teachers are called directors. They are known as directors on this stage. They must leave the stage once the contest begins and go into the audience.

So it's all up to the students who are running the tech and the play and backstage in front of stage and strike. Yeah. So I followed a number of schools from these divisions that schools have are based off their school. their attendance. So a 6A school has over 3,000 students, sometimes 5,000 students, and a 1A school has like under 75. Yeah. Followed several schools across the state for the competitive season last year as they tried to go through the five ranks all the way up to state finals in Austin. Well, you know, as I've said on this podcast before, I love anything that has a nationals, but this also goes for like that has a states. If you can go to states, like I'm into this idea.

Here's the other thing, Gary's, if you're listening to this, I know y'all out there, a lot of you watch the Jimmy Awards. Most of you are watching the Jimmy Awards. If you are a Jimmy Awards watching person, I'm going to say this kind of thing will appeal to you. I watched that trailer, and I'm like, all these Jimmy Awards gays are going to fucking, like, would love something like this. All these kids want to go to the jimmies. Yeah. For sure. And, you know, when you go to state, there's, there's, so you win awards.

This is. There are little Tonys at every competition where you win an award for honorable mention All-Star Cast, All-Star Cast, Tech Awards, and then Top Performer. There are two that win top performer, and then three advance to the next level until you get to region. We're only two advanced to state. The rulebook is 106 pages. There's rules about the pylons, like the unit set that you have to use. What is a wall? What is a door?

Can you ad-lib? You know, like 106. constantly evolving rules. And yeah, I still have all my medals from when I did it in high school. And it changed my life. When people asked how I could do an Oscar run, honestly, I went through One Act. Like, there are a number of Texans on Broadway because they came out of this program, ready to be professionals, particularly in techs and techie. Like, you'll see a lot of people who started in One Act.

Yeah, like the head of One Act just wrote to me, she had. just seen Death of the Salesman, and she counted three one-act alums alone. Wow. On the crew. And the cast. Oh, wow. Jim Parsons went to state. Get out of here.

F. Marie Abraham is a one-act alum. There are... Trying to imagine F. Murray, Abraham, scrambling to, like, strike a set quickly is... In El Paso, Texas. Fantastic. I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

So... So I really... I couldn't be everywhere. all at once. So we also, if there were aspiring film students who wanted to jump on board and become part of their company, we got them cameras. And so they're also filming themselves, because there's rules. I wasn't allowed in certain areas. My crew wasn't allowed. So students were also filming themselves in each other. So I had like production meetings with high schoolers, which was my favorite. The dream. Incredible. The dream. Two of my, two of my,

two of my film students are now film students in college. I don't want to ruin anything that goes on with the cast, but, you know, they're all on the cusp of what will I do for the rest of my life. And this is a program where someone sees you and says, uh, I think you can be a leader. I think you can run this light board. I think you can stage manage. I think you can be the lead. Yeah. And, um, you know, they take it very, very seriously. It is like really the first time I felt like everybody's taking my life as seriously as I take my life. Right. Right. Well, and like, and like, and like, let's do this. Like you say just sort of like, it's not just like, like, high school athletics that get this level of commitment from the students, right?

Like there are so many other different areas. Well, the points are worth the same as football. So it's an academic competition. Nerds, here we go. This is called UIL. Throughout Texas, this is called UAL. And forgive me Texans, if I get it wrong. I'm sure there's a hotline.

You can call and fix me. But the, so you have football and soccer and lacrosse or whatever your school may or may not be able to before but you also have forensics and essay and speech and economics and one act play is one of these divisions so any medal you get any advancement you get is the same as scores trophies they have the same level of points as they do on the sports side and that school at the end of the year tallies up all the points they made from all their UIL competitions and that amount gives them a ranking statewide of how good of a school they are. So it means money and budget.

And so teachers can get a new auditorium or just like they're getting a new football stadium. So, you know, there are definitely schools that cannot do a play about the Holocaust in their regular company like season. But they can for one act. because people want a trophy. So if you want to do Death and the Maiden or whatever. Oh my gosh, can you imagine Death in the Maiden? I mean, there's someone. There is a teacher out there.

There was a director out there. He was like, I just wanted to do Death and the Maiden. There is a Corpies, Sinclair, that said, yes, I will have these 16-year-olds doing Death-N-The Maiden. I'm telling you, you wouldn't believe the level of these productions. Yeah. Like, what you see them pull off is so impressive. Yeah. Yeah, you probably go in thinking, this will be waiting for government, but you're, like, you are very much blown away by what they're able to do with whatever it is that they have.

And sometimes 30 years of experience doing this competition over and over. Anything that's going to like make me impressed by kids is like, Garrett, like that is like, I love that. I mean, like, watching the trailer too, there is an element where it's like, we do actually need to see hopeful, not to, you know, use Instagram. hashtag words, but we do need to actually see hopeful representation of our youth right now. And also, not only did the trailer make me want to like desperately see the movie now, but also I want to go. So what's the spectator vibe? Is it all in Ticketmaster?

What are we doing? It's five bucks most places because it helps with the school. But yeah, you can, there are 2,700 high school. at the top of the season. 2,700 shows that you could go and see. A typical day is 6 to 8 shows. You know, they're each about an hour long, under an hour. But sometimes they let you watch the setup and break down.

Sometimes they clicks a curtain for mystery for their fog machines. But, yeah, all over the state. And then state in Austin is two weeks long, three days, the first week for 1A2A3A, and three days, the second week for 4A, 5, A6A. and you can go to the Performing Arts Center in Austin and watch the best of the best compete for the top eight in each division. So 2,700 start 64 make it to state. Just like how March Madness used to be before they expanded it. Yeah, I was saying.

It happens in March. It's the largest theater competition in the world. Oh, my God. All right. So at what stage of development is the film? I am in post. Hell yeah. We are in edit.

We are done with all our filming. And, yes, I'm raising funds to finish it because it's an independent film, don't you know? Uh-huh. We really needed it to be independent so that, you know, we were in people's high schools and classrooms and auditoriums. And you didn't want anybody to be like, who's this now? Right. You know, we were a group of alums. When at UT, state used to happen at UT.

And if you were there, you could work state, which was one of the best experiences I ever had. was like being backstage, helping these high school students get on the bass concert hall and, like, perform. It's, it's really addictive. Oh, my God. That's so cool. So, yeah, so I'm calling people and pitching this movie all the time. So at One Actfilm.com, you can throw a little bit of money our way if you have some. But if you know someone who likes to invest in theater and the arts and the hope for Texans,

this also, I do believe, helps change the idea of what is a Texan who's really here and vulnerable and losing arts. education fast, who's receiving, who's on the receiving end of these book bands and literature bands? How much harder is it to teach theater, which is the basis of teaching empathy? And the way that it changes a community, when you're watching your kid portray someone that you've never met before and didn't understand, you see it absolutely differently. Already, you're already getting me. I'm already... I'm like a motion. I cried a lot. I cried a lot. I cry every day.

It's really, yeah, it is very, it is very hopeful. I, I want to say, like, you really do meet,

and honestly in documentary, I don't know why, they do call them characters, they're people, but you meet these people. And they, they remind you of someone, they remind you of yourself,

they remind you of someone who believed in you. Yeah. Because these teachers, like any parent would be lucky to have their kid walk into their classroom and their theater space and be given something to do.

Well, And also there's a lot of jocks because they have to lift all these heavy things. Well, sure. And they have good work ethic. They show up to these rehearsals. They do long. They're used to two a day. They're used to working through spring break.

So it is like art kids meeting sporty kids for the first time too. Like also competition for a theater kid for the first time of like, oh, wait a minute. If television has taught me anything, it's that when the offensive linemen doesn't have football. to do. He can really make a difference. He can learn something about ballet. He can learn exactly. That's exactly right. I fucking love this, obviously. The fact that you have pivoted seamlessly from making Rizum at St. Dix on national television to inspirational children in Texas doing awesome things. Sorry. And Pedro Pascal. Yes, that's true. That's true. Making all of our hotties say dicks and then blush is a fine calling card is what I'm going to say.

It's a fine calling card. Thank you. So, yeah, so we decided let's do a documentary. And then Chris and I, you think those kids put in the hard work, then Chris and I went down to the grindstone and said, what documentaries have had Oscar buzz? There's a good number because there's always a snubber to like every year. right? Because there's always high profile ones, there's ones that do better at the box office, and then the niche and remote and never controversial, as never weathered any controversy, documentary branch of the academy. Yes, exactly, yes.

Have their own tastes. They sure do, and they have tastes that are often, they can be a little they're a little bit of a bugaboo and this particular movie The Thin Blue Line from 1988 directed by Earl Morris did sort of encounter one particular

you know crossroads in terms of like the Academy wasn't quite ready to admit that like documentaries weren't this particular sort of like strict inside a box

version of, you know, the kinds of movies that they wanted to make. In the meantime, you had Errol Morris, who is sort of like, you know, shooting off revolvers in the parking lot, like levels of like, you know, he's going to do his own thing. He's going to be, you know, whatever. I shouldn't say ordinary old coot. He had ordinary old coot attitude and energy, you know, when he was younger.

So, but this is a very, very early film of his. So, but this is one of those documentaries that, like, even if you haven't seen it, you know about it. So I think we gave you a little bit of a short list, Pam. This was one of two, I think, that you had expressed some interest in. Yeah, I think you had, won't you be my neighbor on there? And I can't remember the others with Superman on there. It might have been. Yeah.

Yeah. I picked this only because I wasn't sure if I had seen it before. And I thought, well, I'm not sure that I've seen Errol Morris documentaries before. Right. They seem long. This one is pretty. I don't know what wormwood you're talking about. Yeah.

I did actually watch all of Wormwood for work and I actually quite enjoy that. And that is a movie that is actually, or a series, rather, that is similar to Thin Blue Line. And that even goes even more so into the realm of reenactment to the point where it really is almost like half and half, half, you know, dramatic television and half documentary. This is a documentary with some reenactment scenes. Like if you grew up on unsolved mysteries like I do, and I don't mean to like, you know, compare the levels of quality or whatever. But like this This doesn't Sort of it did not rock my conception of like what a documentary is

It's just like we've seen reenactments before Right I also picked it because of documentary now If it had a documentary now It was going in So that's it too For the I doesn't lie And also Texas right

Yeah That was accidental but yes I was like oh I spent the every time the show the map, I was like, I got one of those two, exact same area. I'm going to borrow this map. Chris, had you seen this before? I had, and I think this rewatch, I liked it more than I initially did.

And I think when I initially watched this, it was when we had this real true crime documentary boom, and there was a real style that was morphing around a lot of streaming documentaries that I think Those films owe a huge credit to this movie, particularly with, like, the use of reenactments and the, like, for lack of a better word, intentionality behind this movie because the thing about the thin blue line is that this is a movie that actually got a man off of death row, basically. So it has a huge cultural impact and had, like, obviously an impact on that man's life. You know, so there's, you know, the thinking of, like, making a murderer, that era was. when I first watched this movie, and I was a little over true crime documentaries. But I think that this one is not in the same wheelhouse as a lot of the movies that maybe owe this movie a debt.

Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in obvious real impact, I think, in filmmaking style, too. And, like, I will say, as someone who I get where people are coming from with the reenactments thing. And like, I'm so glad you brought up on Salt Mysteries because I was going to use Unsolved Mysteries as as like the comparison because there's junky reenactments. And then I think in thin blue line, there is a real purpose to the reenactments as Errol Morris does it. There's this real stylization to them that's not just like we have stock actress and stock wig walking through a kitchen and she goes and talks to Stockman.

in a stock cardigan. It's not, there's, there's like a visual panache to what Aero Morris is doing, but I think also the reenactments play with the kind of, uh,

fudginess of various testimonies and, uh, memory in this movie in a way that really actually has a purpose that I'm interested to hear what you guys think about. The, the oft, the most oft's repeated shot in the movie, of the cop, the first female cop in the state of Texas or whatever the hell they said.

Just ever, really is what it seemed like. Ever. Yes. And then this bitch. Who was probably late to the scene because she was shopping for perfumes or whatever. Thinking about boys. But the shot of her sort of like, you know, in the stance with the pistol sort of, you know, in shooting. And of course, dumb-dum brain me, of course, is like, well, yes, because one of the first ever movies you watched a bunch of times when you were a kid was Police Academy.

So all I can think of is like Officer Hooks, you know, at Police Academy being like, stop right there. The like the repetition of that particular pose did, you know, sort of make me laugh. Not at the notion of a lady cop, obviously. But yeah, we'll talk about the reenactments, obviously, but also, I just think there's a bunch of really kind of ways in which the movie is dated, but also like in a way where it's just like, oh, it's dated because we've seen eight billion things that like took that ball and sort of ran with it. I was thinking of how many times I have now seen documentaries that show you how cops are able to get people to make false confessions. And it's one of those lessons that it feels like we learn as a public, as a culture again and again and again. And we sort of like have to sort of be reminded. I feel like it was recently, was it the yogurt chop murders show that like had a thing where they got people to make a confess?

for a crime where they weren't even there or whatever. But I imagine that, like, this guy talking about the ways in which the cops tried to, like, force him to put his fingerprints on the gun or, you know, all this sort of thing, was more eye-opening, you know, back then for just for the fact that, like, there weren't, you know, a ton of documentaries that had talked about that kind of thing. So, um... Particularly in a widespread way. this is what you could, at the time,

categorize as an unqualified documentary hit. Like, it made over a million dollars in the 80s, and now, you know, it probably paved the way to have, like, successful documentaries in, you know, like, multiplexes. Right, right. Yes, exactly.

So, um, we'll get into all of that. I, I, I will have Pam give the plot description in a second. But Chris, before we get to that, why don't you let our listeners know why they should subscribe to our Patreon? Hi, listeners. Gary's one and all.

Anyone new to us? Gary's young and old, as we should say. New Gary's, old Garys. We have a Patreon. It's called This at Oscar Buzz, Turbulent Brilliance. For $5 a month, you're going to get more of the show you already love in the form of two bonus episodes,

The first of which will arrive on the first Friday of every month. We call these episodes exceptions. These are movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric of great expectations and disappointing results, though they managed to score an Oscar nomination or two. What documentary could we do for that? Obviously, the legendary hoop dreams. If we want to talk about hoop dreams, we can get into it. You know how strongly I feel about hoop dreams.

Yes, we do. This month, our exception episode was Saving, Mr. Banks. Thomas Newman nominated score, but no nomination for one Miss Emma Thompson. Yes. What other exceptions episodes have we done, Joe? We've done things like recently the Birdcage,

the Black Dahlia, when Harry met Sally. We've done great masterpieces like Mulholland Drive and Far from Heaven. We've done not so much masterpieces like House of Gucci, Madonna's W.E. The Lovely Bones. have going on two do we hit i i get to this point every part and i'm like how long have we been doing the patriarchal joe i think we're going on like three years i think we turn we have several years of exceptions episodes you can go and listen to us talk about those movies yes the second bonus episode is going to come on the third friday of every month we call these excursions they are deep dives

into oscar nerdery we love to obsess about on the show things like e w fall movie previews old award shows from the 80s and 90s. We recently recapped the Oscars where Share wins her Oscar, but we've also done things like Indy Spirit Awards, MTV Movie Awards. We've talked about the Oscar fan favorite fiasco. We've done a deep dive into Jennifer Lopez's Hateration movie line issue. This month, we are returning for the first time in a while to one of our favorite topics, the Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtable's

we will be talking about the year of 2012 and we'll be screaming Justice for Sally Field from the hills The hardest to find Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtable I tell you, I had to leave a trail of breadclines I sure did, I absolutely did because trying to Google it was not happening

they were bringing you to every page but the actual video so yeah we do it for you So go on over to this headhouse for both turbulent brilliance at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz and sign up right now.

That's patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. We are talking about the 1988 film The Thin Blue Line written and directed by Errol Morris starring. Starring is a weird thing to do, but I did write down the names of Randall Adams and David

Ray Harris, premiered at the what was then called the USA Film Festival that would eventually become the Sundance film festival on April 30th, 1988, and then opened in the rest of the rest of America. On August 25th, 1988, it opened in just one theater and earned over $17,000 the second highest per screen average that week after Crossing Delancey. So, my beloved. Well done at the micro box office. That weekend in August of 1988.

Oh, I forgot to write down how many weeks into the run, because I don't think most of these were first week movies, but you had a nightmare on Elm Street 4, the Dreammaster. A movie called Betrayed. Is betrayed the one with Cher or with Goldie Hawn? Or am I thinking of a completely different? I think that's Goldie Hawn. Betrayed, I think you're thinking of... What's the one with, like, Cher and Don Johnson? She's, like, tied to a chair on a...

Oh, no, that is... You're thinking of Faithful. I'm thinking of the one that Cher and Don Johnson. Faithful came a lot later. Is it suspect? I think you're right. I'm looking up suspect. I should go watch that movie.

I don't think that's a Cher movie I've seen. Betrayed is Deborah Winger. Deborah Winger. And suspect is Cher and Dennis Quaid. The Don Johnson one I'm thinking of is Don Johnson and Rebecca DeMorne. And I don't know the title. We're really figuring it out, guys. We figured it out.

We got there. This is research. This is research methods. starring Chris and Joe. So, yeah, a fish called Wanda was in theaters that week. A little movie called Die Hard, Young Guns, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Cocktail, Married to the Mob? You really had a selection. We were not taking things seriously.

This is eight films not taking shit seriously. I don't know. Roger Rabbit is taking the Los Angeles Transit System. very seriously. That is true. There were some messages there that we needed to heed that we did not. Is Nightmare on Elm Street 4 the one where Freddie turns someone

into a cockroach? God, I'm not the person to ask, but... It's not Dream Warriors, it's Dream Master. So this is the one that doesn't have Patricia Arkin. I'm out of knowledge. I have no idea what happens in the Dream Master. That feels like a

I almost said it's not the one where he goes to Manhattan, but he's not the one who goes to Manhattan. It is Jason, in fact. Freddy should go to Manhattan. Freddy's already so queer-coated. Let that man have a vacation. Send him to the West Village. Although in the 80s, it would have been like send him to like, you know, whatever the meatpacking. Market takes.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, a real interesting octet of movies there, plus the thin blue line and crossing to Lancy, depending on where you were looking for movies. So, Pam. We have asked you to deliver a 60-second plot description of the thin blue line. I'm going to pull out my stopwatch in one second. No, I don't want 60 seconds.

It's too long. You are free to go shorter. I'll just talk. I'll just talk. All right. Ready? Yeah. Okay, begin.

Sure. I don't need the time. The thin blue line starring Philip Glass, and that's it. Hell yeah. We haven't even mentioned just the droning Philip Glass. As soon as the note started, I would. like, oh no. But anyway, Ben Blue Line starring Philip Glass's score is a true story about the arrest and conviction

of Randall Adams for the murder of a Dallas policeman in 1976. This is billed as the first movie mystery to actually solve a murder. It's credited with overturning the conviction of Randall Dale Adams for the murder of Dallas police officer, Robert Wood. This in November 1976, Dallas police officer, Robert Wood, pulled over a car driving with its headlights off, which turned out to be stolen. the driver shot him point blank and fled. And the story begins there.

We hear from two different people. One is mostly. One is David Harris, who was a young person at the time. And the other is Randall Adams, who was a drifter. They are quick to tell you right away, who happened upon a bunch of too good to be true things that ended with him serving a life sentence and a death penalty. There are many reenactments.

There are many interviews. and key witnesses and corrupt officials that challenge the inconsistencies in the prosecution's case, including cars that were stolen. What does a car look like? How do people remember what cars look like? What is the angle? A milkshake is thrown? What are guns?

Where could guns be? What is a crime spree and what is someone who just had bad luck? There are brothers who may or may not have anything to valid. There are women who just are bad at their jobs. They're going to remind you that over and over again. And Texans who want to put people in the death penalty. They just want death. They want murder. They want death. All they want is to electrocute people. That is the thin blue line. Philip Glass is still playing somewhere in my head right now. It has changed me. I don't feel good. And yeah, we wouldn't have, you guys wouldn't be talking about the chase or right now without it. We wouldn't have all these movies that are on right now where we just like completely chew what is the latest crime and how can we determine the true murderer. Was it the boyfriend or was it the drifter?

Or was it this very, very charismatic still young man telling me, I don't know, man, maybe I did do it. It was definitely him. It was definitely. Two and a half minutes. No, you're supposed to stop me. No. I don't know what 60 seconds is. Oh, my God.

Pam, you and I are great friends, but also very different people in many ways. And the degree to which I was rocking out to that Philip Glass score, which, by the way, is the hours. Yeah, it is the hours. I mean, Philip Class is always adjacent to this Philip Class thing, which is adjacent to this Philip Class thing. It's so close to the hours. But this is the hours. So close. This is the hours.

And literally, and it took me about 30 seconds, I'm like, I know this. Where do I know this? And I was so mad that it took me the 30 seconds that it took me because I was like, bitch, this is your movie. And so I was literally, and I kept wanting to text Chris, but I'm like, save it for the podcast, save it for the podcast. But I was, I was just, I texted everybody else. I was like, fell of glasses, the thin blue line score is the hours. Why did nobody ever tell me? Incredible.

It's when I realized I had seen this before. Yeah. It was like, run, do, do. And I was like, no. What have I done to myself? I could have been, I could have just been watching. I could have been watching, won't you be my neighbor? What have I done to myself?

And I texted someone, I'm not going to make it. Because I started at like 8.30 or something. It's only 100 minutes. The sound of Philip Glass puts me to sleep within the second, like, murmur, and I'm gone. I am gone. I am still somewhere trying to watch the hours. Like, this is what you would do to, like, lull somebody to sleep is play, like, repetitive notes like that. Yeah. Or hypnotize them into a false confession.

Like, it's what you would do. It would work on me every time. Pam, have you unloaded the dishwasher. Speaking of hypnosis, too, there are like four or five fantastic cuts in this movie, and one of them is the one that cuts to the pocket watch, like, swinging in the air for a good 30 seconds before they even start talking about like, so we used to hypnotize people back then to see if you could like remember stuff. That one fucking guy. That one fucking guy.

You can't say that about the thin blue line. You could be talking about a lot of different people. Because not only is the star of the movie, Philip Glass, the star of the movie is also Errol Morris's fucking attitude. Because like there are some cuts in this movie that it's just like, really are just like, this fucking guy. And as Morris's career would go on, he would start to insert himself more in the movies where you would hear his questions and sometimes he would even

like show up on camera. If you watch the fog of war, the fog of war is definitely a much more sort of like conversation between him and Robert McNamara. And this one you don't hear or see Morris at all, but you're absolutely right. Like his

toad is all over this thing. I mean, it made me think of Frederick Wiseman in that way because like the thing about Wiseman documentaries are that like they're not supposed to be obtrusive. Like it is him just like doing end-to-end process and you're going to witness it. But the way that he cuts the movie, it is totally him putting in his perspective and

like sometimes very like bitterly funny. I think the thing that like I was so amazed on this rewatch with Morris and especially like thinking of like true crime documentary. And like Pam, I would love to hear what you think about this. having just, you know, gone through filming of your own documentary. The interviews in this movie are like one of the reasons why this movie is better than a lot of, like, junkie true crime is because it is amazing what these people are willing to say on camera. And, like, the, like, vulnerability. Vulnerability is not the right word because it's not, like, emotion that's on screen.

But the footage that he's able to capture, the way that he's able to get these people comfortable is one of the things that I think kind of stays jaw-dropping about this movie. Because today, those interviewees and documentaries, like, they know how this works. They're going to come in a little more guarded than any of these people are. So, like, you just went through that process. Like, how do you get people comfortable on camera? Well, you didn't have to deal with any like Yeah, I wasn't talking to I don't know, you haven't seen my film yet

But I think there's this There's like this is new to them But these people were all pretty sure they were right So they are going to tell you Completely their point of view All the way through to the part where you're like Oh, that's not the part you're supposed to say Because they're not, you know, what is the problem?

You ask me a question, here's my answer, here's my truth There were very few people having to deal with, could I be wrong? Right. And if they were, then they were like, it was because this other person's a piece of shit. Like, people were throwing people under buses all the time. Well, and I also imagine in 1988, before you do have this like true crime industrial complex, right? Where, you know, people were sort of necessarily less media literate, less savvy for, you know, less on their guard about this kind of thing. I imagine if you had heard that like some, you know,

filmmakers coming to make a documentary about this death row case that we had, you even if you had the sense that like they were looking to poke holes in your story, you probably because you say, as you say, like they have the certainty of how right they are, would go into that and being like, I'm going to show this guy. You know what I mean? Like I will make, you know, my case and my,

in, you know, inherent correctness will win the day against this guy. This is why I like cult docs, just a little more than true crime docs. Yeah. Because it's 100% conviction. And then a bunch of people have been like, how could we, how, I don't know, I just let him fuck my wife. I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, the jinx, the staircase, like all of these films where people are like, show me, show me what I've done wrong.

The Murdoch. I mean, I watched all of these. I did watch a bunch of the Murdoch documentaries. The jinx is so good. The same one where it was like, I fucking did it. Right? Yeah. Killed them all, of course.

Yeah. People can't, we can't sit on something. It comes out. I mean, look at our regime. Like, they have to tell you. You have, I don't know. There's, I'm trying to go back to your question of how do you get someone comfortable? It isn't, sometimes they're waiting to talk to you.

Yeah. About, they don't know who else to talk. to, nobody wants to listen to them. They want to just shout it at something and here is a camera. Like it's just a diary. And I think even more so now, people have grown up filming themselves. They are used to staring at the lens and talking to this anonymous audience. They're more comfortable with the anonymous audience than their friends sitting next to them, eye contact wise. So they are going to be actually a little more vulnerable and revealing often because this This just feels like what it sounds like when you talk to yourself in the mirror.

Right. Well, people today also think they can outsmart the process, but it's in a very different way in which they feel like they can essentially confess and still find a way to like make this, make themselves the hero of their story or whatever. I'm continually amazed at how many of these things are. Like the one about the woman who was fucking bullying, online bullying, her own daughter? Did you see that one recently? No, but I heard about it.

It sounded too dark for me. And it's like, she's fully participating in this. And like, literally, and I'm just like, what do you think, how do you think you're going to come out on top here or something like that? Because I, it's, I mean, you can, you know, it's a pathology, of course. But it's also just like, it's amazing the relationship we have now. to cameras and content and that kind of thing, where it's just like, this is just what I have. This is my downfall, but it is also my only way out of this is to put it on camera. Did you watch the, we are Jenny?

No. This is the Australian woman who has like 250, 2,500 personalities. No, I did not. And six of her alter egos testified in court to help convict her abuser. No? Yeah. Didn't. Like, give me lots of sybil.

I can't do it Australianly. However, you would say Sybil, Australianly. Shit is breaking loose in Australia in ways you would just not believe. Like, genuinely. There's something about the merger to where HBO, like, now you never know if you're turning on a, I'm going to say, I want to say real, but I'm going to say good. A Sheila Nevins produced, like, top shelf. HBO documentary or investigation discovery and decided to like, yeah. Bullshit aliens crashed my car.

Like, what am I watching? You don't even have an ending. What do you mean? Like, what is this? You watch it, and it's like, here are five questions that you would have, that anyone worth their salt would follow up with, and they'd never ask. No. No.

And I guess, I guess we want true crime for, you know, whenever we're like, why are women so a true crime. I'm like, we want to prepare ourselves for all of the things that could happen to us when we go hiking or go to the 7-Eleven. Or get married. Yeah. Or get married or get married or God's sake. Sit still. Just sit still. What will happen? But I also think we are always looking for being just a little bit smarter than the story. So that's what you're saying. And that is not a new thing. Like people will try and act like that's a new thing. That is not a new thing. We have always wanted to be a little bit smarter than, you know, just a little bit, just enough that we can, you know, feel good about it. So, yeah. And the thin blue line does give you that, of course.

Like, it does give you this opportunity to, you know, you go into this and you're like, well, they wouldn't be making a movie about this if these cops weren't fucking shit up and, you know, up to no good. But it is fascinating. watch the principles in this story sort of tell, to unfold that night, to tell the story of that night,

particularly because it's not just one person chronologically like, you know, laying out the whole night. So there are gaps constantly. There are sort of like, there are holes that you are like, wait a second.

Like, you, why did you go to the drive-in with this? And just like, that was my brain through the whole thing of just like, we went to go see a show together. A couple shows. Yeah. Why did we have to see so much of it, though? Why did I have to watch so much of those movies?

What was that fade done? I meant to look up what that fade done away movie was that they went to go see. And now I totally forgot about it. Oh, the one that wasn't like horny cheerleaders? Right. Yes. The one that the guy didn't want. The guy, no, he didn't want to watch horny cheerleaders.

I think in part because the person who. was watching it with was maybe using it as a pretext to like getting horny together. And the student body is the name of the film and the swinging cheerleaders is the name of the other one. The finest cinema of the 70s and 80s. Yeah. Like that stuff to me was fascinating. What did people do on a Saturday night back in the 1970s or whatever?

There was a ton, though, of like. unspoken until the very end of the movie, homoeroticism, like, coursing through this thing. And I'm like, just get to that part. Get to that part. Like, what was going on there? Why was this happening? What's going to...

You went back to his hotel? Like, what's going on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So... Can we talk about the poster, which is the Miramax of it all?

Like, how they released this film. This poster is hilarious. Oh. Tricking people into thinking that they were seeing a narrative film. Though it's like how Carol Morris categorizes that, he'd be like, well, it is a narrative film. That they were not tricking people into seeing a documentary, basically. But this poster specifically does look like an airport paperback back when those existed. But, you know.

What is it? So, wait, so I'm sorry, I'm trying to blow it up here, but it's easier to look at it on IMDB. A softcore movie, Dr. Death. A chocolate milkshake. A nosy blonde and the Carol Burnett show. Solving this mystery is going to be murdered. Like, they do kind of like, that is a setup to a sitcom. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. We do see a circle TV guide listing of the Carol Burnett show so many times. Yes. To the point where I'm like, is somebody lying about watching the Carol Burnett show that night? Did she exist? Was the lady cop watching it too? It ended at 10 or did it. Like, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, it was time zones became a whole factor here. And who knows what two hours are. And yeah, I, okay, I did fall asleep. And I did have to rewind and rewatch. And it's tough with a Philip Glass score to know if you have gotten back to where you were before at all, particularly when you're like. Time is a flat circle.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and it just keeps seeing this cop get shot over and over again. Carol Burnett. What did she know and when did she know it? Oh. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

So anyway, this poster made me laugh because it looks like it's an action movie kind of, but it's also like or a new version of clue. And it. Also, in the version of the poster that I put in the outline here, the thin blue line and the word blue is colored red. Everything else is colored blue, but the word blue is colored red. Makes you think. Makes you think. Right. Red like murder.

It did also, having never seen the movie before, I had always assumed that it was more about the sort of the police rallying around. Because like that's how you sort of, that phrase is kind of used today, sort of this, you know, thin blue line. And they kind of, you know, the, you know, cops will, you know, lie to back each other up and all this sort of stuff. And you do get that in this movie. But it's more so that it's just like, they found this drifter. They assumed that a drifter killed a cop because that's what drifters do, apparently. And they're like, well, like, place closes at nine. So let's, you know, get this thing wrapped up and whatever.

And the experience of it is the thing that the more of these movies that I watch, the more I'm just like, man, you really did just find your guy and want to get this thing like when the lady was talking about the prosecutor with the perfect record. And the disgust in her voice, I could have like hugged that lady at that point because like, yes, like these DAs or whatever who will like run for public office loved her. Absolutely loved her. would invite her to hang out. Come guest on her show if you are still alive, lady. But the ways in which these DAs will run for public office and get elected, like, you know, governor of the state or whatever based on their, like, perfect prosecution record. And nobody will, you know, because you can't be, you know, anti-law and order or whatever,

nobody will just be like, that's fucked up that, like, you were never wrong. Like you got, you know, you had to have gotten at least several, you know, innocent people locked up in there. And this lady had the appropriate level of disgust for that kind of a thing. And I'm like, I'm so glad that you are here right now. You are my surrogate. Yeah. And his secret weapon is this Dr. Death, which was originally who Errol Morris was going to do the documentary about. Yes.

The psychiatrist, Dr. James Grigson, who testified more than 100 trials that resulted in the death sentence. The law in Texas for the death penalty was you had to, the jury had to be convinced that the defendant wasn't just guilty, but would commit violent crimes in the future if not puts it. Yeah. Would kill people again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, I think the biggest thing here that Randall has of like, I have no priors. Like, I'm just a drifter. I'm just looking for work. Right. Hanging out and drive through, drive-ins. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm on. Interrupting my brother's viewing of the Carole Burnett show. Like, yeah. I didn't. I didn't know the car was stolen. I didn't know the car had a gun. I didn't know this kid at all. This kid has just

committed a series of crimes and is in a stolen car. And also everybody in Viter, Texas, which as soon as Viter is said, the red flags go up. Oh, yeah. Notorious. Three billboards, I believe, is about Viter. I mean, I know it is, but I also feel like I didn't see that movie, so I don't want to say, like, maybe they change the town. But the titular town is ebbing Missouri. But yes. Oh,

well, Viter, Texas used to have a billboard that said, as you passed through it, where you could legally kill someone

and get away with it because of other scandals that it has had in the past. It's a, you know, it's a sundown. Yeah.

Town. But in any event, yeah, so even the Viter cops were just like, oh, what's up? What did you do this time?

He's like, I'm committing sprees. That guy was, incredibly casual about the whole thing. Like literally, and he's being interviewed in his, like, prison orange jumpsuit. So, like, you know they eventually got him for something. And they don't really say that up front.

So you're just sort of like, you know, all right, well, there's this guy who's, like, being interviewed from prison and could not have been more casual, could not have been more chill about the whole thing. Yeah, fascinating. But so, okay. The Burger King order. The malt. I feel like they kept calling it a malt.

They absolutely did. They would not say Burger King. I love the fact that the cops were all very noncommittal about where this thing came from. And Errol Morris was like, no. We are going to implicate corporate fast food into this whole thing. Let's get royalty involved. Let's get the fucking king on the witness stand. I'm going to have it my way.

But the funniest thing about the thing about, the Burger King thing is it's mentioned that this lady went and got a chocolate malted and, you know, some, you know, a burger and some fries or whatever. As part of this like, none too subtle trashing of her character, right? Where he was just like, we never had a lady cop before. And there, instead of doing her job, decided to go, I guess she had, you know, a craving or whatever for chocolate, so she had to go get a malted. She wasn't driving. She wasn't driving

in that reenactment. It's not like she was like, I'm making us do this. Also, like... He basically is like one cup, one hand is cupping like the nastiest coffee you've ever had and he has a fucking donut. I was going to say, what are

what are we talking about here? What's the reputation of cops anyway? But yes, you can't not tell me that Earl Morris did not know he was being fucking hilarious with this. Like the lingering, threatening close-up on the BK bag as it hits the ground, the spilt chocolate shake that is like blood from a corpse, you know, just staining the pavement. The close-up of the drawing of the crime scene that has like chocolate liquid written in pencil

with an arrow. This is where we found the chocolate liquid. Like, really? Man, I'm going to have to ask you back up. Yeah. We need to trace the outline in this chocolate vaulted. Yeah. You're right about the viscosity, though, Chris.

I noticed that, too, where as sometimes happens with a chocolate shake, where you, you know, it starts to thin at the top and the borders. It stays a shake in some parts, and then it becomes a milk fluid elsewhere. Thank you for bringing milk fluid into this conversation. I'm glad. I just have a question that I have to clear up because it keeps coming into my mind. Do we know, are we all too young to know, what the hell is a malted milkshake? What is a malt?

Like what makes it, what characterizes a malted? I'm going to guess we're too young to know this, but do either of you know what the hell a malt is? No, and in fact, malt and malted comes up in several contexts because why, or malted milk balls. And also, like, there is malt liquor, which is, like, very different than a milkshake. So I'm going to have Pam weigh in in a second because maybe Pam knows. But this could be a wonder-killing opportunity for you, Pam. But I am, I am real, real, at odds and ends about the definition of malt or malted. I think malt is an ingredient. Unlike a milk shape.

Is it like a powder? Like a powder? Yeah, I think it is that like crusty stuff and then that could be in malt liquor. Like it's the yeast. It's a yeasty kind of a thing. Let's find out. Like less ethnic macha. What is it?

What is it? Malt is cereal ryan. White people match is malt. Is malt? Claude. Claude is malt is malt. Is malt people matcha? Malt is a cereal grain most commonly barley that has been steeped in water to germinate and then

dried with hot air, the process converts the grain starches into natural sugars, creating a distinctive nutty, toasty, and sweet flavor. It's a highly versatile ingredient used in all kinds of things. It provides the fermentable sugars and enzymes in order to produce alcohol. Malt syrup and malt flour are used in fagels and breads to aid in yeast fermentation, enhanced crust browning. And in sweet treats, malted milk powder made from malted barley, wheat and milk is the secret ingredient behind your malted milkshakes as well as candies like woppers. And it's used to make malt vinegar, as we know, and old tea and such. Yeah.

So. Oh my God. So we kind of had it. It's a grain. Woppers. You were saying woppers and we're talking about Burger King and I was thinking, I was like, wait, how is that in a wopper? No. Yeah, no. Malted's chocolate balls.

Well, at your candy shop. Yeah. That's fascinating. I should have said Maltese. Maltisers, the superior Canadian version of Woppers. I'm coming back, Tiff. I'm coming back for my annual bag of Maltisers that I'm going to have, so get ready. Is that have to do with Maltese dogs?

What is a Malteseer? It's Woppers, but then like Canadian, it's Canadian chocolate version. Oh, oh, oh, thank you. Yeah. Canadian chocolate, it's just better. I don't know why. I do know why, because there's standards. Because there's probably real chocolate in it.

Are we all excited for the Hershey movie? Are we all very excited to watch the origin story of Hershey in that film from Angel Studios? Is it Angel Studios that is releasing? I didn't know. This just in. I didn't know that. Yeah. My brain was racking from the studio because don't they make like a candy movie?

In the show studio? In the studio. Don't they make it? What is it that they make? No, they make a Kool-Aid movie. That's what it is. They make the Kool-Aid movie. Kool-Aid not a malted beverage.

Kool-Aid. What if you had, what if there was a flavor of Kool-Aid that was malt. Malt. Malt-cherry. We still only kind of know what malt is, but I'm glad we looked it up. All right, excellent job. Very good. Eremor is knowing what he's doing, though, in terms of interjecting his point of view in these people.

Yes. I will say, I watched Gates of Heaven or Gate of Heaven for the first thing. I'm glad you did because I want to ask you if it's the precursor or the antecedent to Bestin show that it seems to be from reading the description. Yes and no. In the way that people talk about their pets and sit two to a frame in lawn chairs side by side next to each other, Cookie and Jerry Flex style. It definitely influenced the visual style in that movie. I think what I almost wanted to watch it with the sound. because people, again, back to the thing of how do you get people to just like be themselves on camera in this way?

And people really, like Pam, you're totally right. People are just fundamentally themselves. This is a movie about, they moved the pets from a pet cemetery from one place to another. Yes. Yes, they're building a pet cemetery in California. And it's really just kind of this assortment of eccentrics. you know, and, you know, textually dealing with, you know, the death of a pet, and, you know, spiritually what that is like for someone if you are a pet owner, pet lover. But, I mean, it really did kind of re-informed the style of this movie for me because it, I don't think it's a mean movie, but it is definitely like, Aero Morris constantly being like, get a fucking load of it.

in this person's, like, house. Like, he's, like, strategically interviewing people in their homes or on their lawns in the most interesting, fascinating places where it's, like, half of the time, I can't listen to these people because I'm looking at, like, her knick-knacks in the background, because it's so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. That's the show, uh, neighbors.

Oh, you can talk about neighbors. Chris, well, Chris has mentioned neighbors like several times. When is it coming back? I need it. When are you coming back? That show absolutely proves your point of people are just waiting to tell you their story. I love neighbors. I love neighbors.

I also think everyone is interesting if you give them the space to unfold. Right. Like, you're not going to always get it right away because people are like, who the fuck are you? Why am I doing this? But even that is kind of interesting. Like, why are you worried about me? hiding, yeah. Or who told you to stop feeling like you can talk about yourself, right?

Who told you you don't have the right to tell your story? Who told you you're nobody? Right? What made you quiet? And neighbors. This is what they say at the beginning of assassins to get them to become assassins, just so you know. In the musical?

Is that true? More likely. Another calling I've missed. But that one's also, you know, there's a cult in there. So, yeah, I think, I think. something like neighbors does prove that we are, you know, we're all protagonists. Right. Right.

We're all protagonists with the capacity to be very right and very wrong in numerous different ways in the same situation. Yeah. Yeah. And it depends on if that camera cares about you. Yeah. Right. So like, like, this is interesting what you're talking about is like, this fucking guy is telling me what to think. And as I make my film, it's something that I'm actually, I'm not interested in doing is telling you what to think here.

Because I think it's because I'm like, this, what? It's not explanatory. They're great. Yeah. Yeah. But in order to give the access to their great, there were times where you're trying to get them to answer a question a certain way. I, you know, I was a logger for reality television in my early industry life. Watching people try to get people to answer questions the way they want those sound bites to come out is its own art form.

And I wasn't going to get these people drunk and in a hot tub, which is the fastest way to do it. So where was I going with this? You were talking about Tyra Banks, but yes. Yes, I was saying. Actually, I worked on, I worked on Are You Hot? Wow. Lorenzo Lov. The Bachelor and The Bachelor.

in the bachelor at and high school reunion wait for it too can i tell you i'm pretty sure i watched one of those two seasons of high school reunion um wow yeah excellent excellent stuff uh but oh that's it so you know so are you trying to make your viewer feel the way that you feel or are you presenting this which i think you had you had the ability here for these two people who were on either side of this crime or either side of the truth, honestly, could have done all of the work. Yes. Could have done all of the work.

I don't know that those reenactments honestly made that a better film. No. If they were the ones who are our narrators and then you had all these other people being, you know, like talking about whether or not they had a point. Yeah. Without me having to even IQ, you could show me the Carol Burnett thing. That was proof. That was proof.

Yes. That was very different. I think it's also probably the fact that, like, this is Morris's third film, and it sounds like when he started out, he wasn't necessarily locked into Documentarian as the thing he was going to be. He was looking into making, you know, all kinds of movies, narrative movies, and whatnot. Reading through Morris's early history is really interesting, even just on the sort of cursory level that I did. Gates of Heaven, you mentioned Chris, is his first movie that he decides to make by just like happening upon the newspaper headline about this pet cemetery that they're moving all of these pets. And then as you read through, like, Werner Herzog asserts himself in the early history of Errol Morris almost as a kind of like, you just get the sense that like every once in a while Werner Herzlzog would just like call Errol Morris on the phone. and just like mercilessly nag him

about whatever he was working on and just sort of... You, sir, are a failure. Like, it says this one thing said, Werner Herzog said he would eat his shoe if Morris completed the documentary Gates of Heaven. And then after the film premiered, Herzog publicly followed through on the bat

by cooking and eating his shoe, which was documented in the short film, Werner Herzog eats his shoe by Les Blank. And now we have the internet And it replaces so much Werner Herzog eats his shoe is being done on the daily Yeah like that's our

That's a generation of Werner Herzog Eatses's shoe His second movie Called Vernon Florida The story of this movie Really fascinated me Per what was at least Collected on Wikipedia

Errol Morris accepted $2,000 from Werner Herzog and used it to take a trip to Vernon, Florida. Vernon was nicknamed Nub City because its residents supposedly participated in a particularly gruesome form of insurance fraud in which they deliberately amputated a limb to collect the insurance money.

Morris's second documentary, Vernon, Florida, was about the town and bore its name, although it made no mention of Vernon as Nub City, but instead explored other idiosyncrasies of the town's residence. Morris made this omission because he received death threats while doing research, the town's residents were afraid that Morris would reveal their secret. Who's making this narrative film?

Like, what is the Zola version of Errol Morris getting harassed out of making the Nub City movie that he wanted to make? Fascinating. Things were different in the late 70s and early 80s. I'm just going to say it. Jimmy Carter was giving way to Ronald Reagan. The nation didn't know what to do with itself. And the residents of Nub City were not going to be exposed. So, yeah, fascinating.

Fascinating stuff. And then Werner Herzlug went and decided to call this movie a nonfiction film instead of a documentary. And his fortunes declined from there in terms of becoming an Oscar nominee that year. Which is so interesting. I mean, I think, especially in the history of documentary or nonfiction film, like, that just kind of, imagine certain branches of the academy were not forward thinking in terms of the art form that they were representing. But, like, that, that writes off people's work who have been, like, incredibly formative. Obviously, I'm thinking, like, anas Varda, a shirt that I'm wearing right now. where it's just like strict lines between calling something documentary and nonfiction

that's like ruling out a lot of great art and it feels a little bit like calling thin blue line nonfiction rather than documentary was a marketing thing in a way that it's just like well it shouldn't be punished for that and like right well like you bringing up unsolved mysteries I mean from what I can tell, like, this is all about when people have to decide what's cinema. Right. Is this good enough because we have these reenactments, which are being used because you didn't have the footage?

Right. You're using it as a thing to look at because you didn't have something for me to see in the veritaph style. Well, I also imagine documentarians as a subset within the filmmaking. community, but also within the academy, are probably looking to, or as, you know, as territorial as anybody is, and want to, you know, maintain a sense of artistic purity to their form. And I imagine that in the 1980s as like cable television is beginning to proliferate or whatever. And things like, you know, not necessarily that Unsolved Mysteries was. a particular anteceda, but like

a thing like a reenactment might seem more TV. You know what I mean? Might seem more lower class, whatever. And because the documentarians are the ones who

are essentially writing the rules for their branch and whatever, that they would want to sort of keep that kind of thing out. And reenactments had gotten I think after Thin Blue Line

had gotten movies deemed ineligible before. So that was like an eligibility thing. I imagine they've eased up on that though. Now it's probably more of a snobbery thing than anything in the actual rules. Well, we had sort of this conversation about the snobbery a few years ago when there was a little bit of chatter

about whether the Taylor Swift extended music video could be, you know, contender in documentary short subject or whatever. And live action short, yeah. Or sorry, live action short. And there was, on the one hand, it was like, won't it get more people interested in, you know, this? And the other hand was like, if we do this, this is just going to become the like music

video award. And it's going to be like the five most expensive, you know, the record label produced music videos and then, you know, that'll be the end of that category, essentially. So I have the current rules if you'd like to hear. Oh, please. Yes. Thank you. Explicitly impis explicitly permits documentaries to employ partial reenactment, stock footage, stills, animation as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction. There are no strict percentages, but the film's core must remain heavily focused on truth.

And while you can easily use reenactments, multi-part documentary series, or films cut down from larger series are ineligible. You know, it would have had a hard time anyway because there's a short list. So first it's got to make it to the 12. And then it's got to make it to everyone. And that is a very difficult jump. Yes. But as someone in other shortlisted categories of animation or short film, like there's all kinds of people being like that one, no, that can't be.

That's not a short. That's too long. That's not animation. That's not good animation. That's not enough. That's not made by your hand. That's too made by your hand. You can't have rotoscoping.

Rhodoscoping can't be an animated film. Like, you know. Elba isn't a voice on this one. Like, yeah. Why do you have to bring that one up? But why do you have to bring up the one at the evening? Why is Joe like this? Why did he do it?

In any event, I couldn't get that one disqualified. No. We wanted to. We wanted to. There's, there's just, qualified for being bad. Yeah. And then, and then everybody's like, but you know, top gun. So what are we doing?

Right. Like is, is it, it makes money. It makes an audience. It is art. It is cinema. It is what are the rules? Yeah. And I get frustrated when it's like, no, that's just not how it's done.

Right. Sure. Right. It was it good? Did people like, you know, did it change, first of all, it changed things. It changed someone's life literally. That doesn't have to be the what is it a documentary, but is it a film, is it art? Yeah.

You know, I think so. Yeah. You're reading off all of those things that could be included in a documentary and still count made me think of like Michael Moore going down the list and like deciding what to put in bowling for Columbine and just being like animation, sure, just like, you know, reenactment. Yes, just like all of it. Well, because there's a thing about docs too, like, oh, is this going to be sad? Is this going to be boring? Is this going to make me hate myself?

Is this going to, is this going to, so they're like, no, it's a murder mystery. Right. No, it's mostly a cartoon. Like, how can we, how can we trick you? Right. You know, you hear like bearings of vegetables. Oh, yeah. Just, it's so, it's such a bummer.

I was just watching Spellbound. Oh, great movie. Great movie. They would never make it like this now because you spend the first hour following eight characters, eight, eight drop-ins. on young people in their lives. Then you go to one competition. And it also has a very repetitive score. I just looked up to see who Spellbound lost to,

and it was, in fact, bullied for Columbine. It was that same year. Yeah, there you go. Because in the end, it's like, did your documentary make a difference? I think that is what gets rewarded in documentary. What was the impact of this film? That was absolutely.

every time I talk about the shorts, talk about the documentary shorts. And it's just like, it really sometimes does become a competition of like, did you have the most important subject matter? Like, do you have, is your movie about the most important thing? Which, you know, for as much as you want to harangue people and be like, judge hard on arts merits. And they're like, I don't know, man. Like, this thing made me feel something.

So, like, what am I going to do? So I get it. To talk about the reenactments thing, and maybe to just reiterate my point from the top of the episode, the idea that, well, reenactments are just for things you don't have footage for. You didn't get that shot. You don't have, like, archival, whatever, showing this, especially for something like this, that's true crime. But that's not the point of the reenactments in this movie. They serve a different purpose. And it's not Errol Morris saying, well, I don't have. have shots of the milkshake. So here's 17 different shots of the milk. No, it is, there is an intention behind it that like,

you know, and this is how rules ultimately get changed or reevaluated or like rethought in, you know, the consciousness of us who like love and care about the Oscars. That it's like there has to be something that kind of slips through the cracks or, you know, innovation

that, you know, makes those points moot. but like I mean I think some of the other issue with this movie not being nominated you go back to the story of hoop dreams not being nominated for documentary and how Roger Ebert

specifically got information out there about what the voting process was like and the branch was even smaller than it is now by substantial margin and it's just like it could really take just a few people not liking your movie to not get it through Like the story, shout out to our 100 Snubs episodes,

the thing about Hooped Dreams was the process for documentary at the time was they would basically put them all in screening rooms and because they were seeing so many or there were so many were long, the branch members could flash a light at the screen and be like, nope, we've had enough of this movie, and then they stopped the movie. And so the nominating committee only saw 15 minutes of Hoop Dream. And then, of course, like, that causes change and uproar, and then Hoop Dreams ends up getting an editing nomination from the editors.

You could not imagine a more... The only way that that could seem more sort of, like, anti-art and, like, you know, demeaning to the films or whatever, is if they had a little bell that you could ring, like, for the servants' quarters, like, you pull a little chain and the bell rings down below at Downton Abbey, and they, like, come up to... change the movie or whatever, like, that level of, like, I'm going to shine a light just like casually from my seat or whatever. I'm displeased, like, I'm going to shine a little light. Or they just pull their lever and Errol Morris drops into a tank of sharks or something. Right. You know, like, how could you be more disrespectful?

Right. So, thin blue line is deemed ineligible. The documentary feature winner that year was Hotel Terminus, The Life in Times of Klaus Barbie, which is about the Nazi War criminal. Klaus Barbie. That was the only other movie that really won prizes at the major film critics prizes. Thin Blue Line won documentary for New York Film Critics, National Border Review, and National Society, and then L.A. Film Critics picked

Hotel Terminus. It did, however, Finn Blue Line was a best feature nominee and best director nominee at the Independent Spirit Awards, which by this point are what did we say was it the first ever Independent Spirit Award went to Lake Blood Simple so they're only a few years old

by this point the Independent Spirit Awards This is I don't think if I'm remembering my research correctly Indy Spirits has never nominated

a nonfiction film since this movie for best feature which is interesting They previously nominated one of Demi's Spalding Gray movies which I think should

maybe count as nonfiction Yeah. Maybe. Why not? The other stand-and-deliver, one feature and director at the Indy Spirits that year. An interesting collection of movie, Stand and Deliver, the thin blue line, hairspray, John Waters' hairspray, film called Patty Rocks that I've never heard of,

and Torch Song Trilogy, the Harvey Firestein stage adaptation. And then in director, who got bumped out, Torchung Chilady got bumped out in favor of Oliver Stone directing talk radio, the Eric Bogosian play Talk Radio, which I have never seen. Oliver Stone directing Eric Bogogian. Just, I admit, that's a lot of energy. I definitely was watching that. Yeah. I was definitely watching that in my room. Feeling cool.

Sure. pump up the volume. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. Pam, how many Andy Spirit Awards have you been to now?

I like that. You know I'm going to ask you about this. I have been. I have definitely been to two. I'm trying to think if I've been to three. But I think. Sometimes you send me photos and it's like a luncheon before the. That's the Chanel party.

Oh, okay. Yeah. The Chanel Academy party. women event, women only event, and I do my best to get invited to that. But I don't think I'm on the constant list. I don't think. I got to get back in there. You got to get back in there. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one day I'll be one of the quirky ladies that they're like, and then put Pam in the back. But right now, it's, you know, but twice I've gotten to sit next to Diane Warren. See, in this world, I'm somewhere, they're like, where do we put Pam? I don't know. She seems to get along with Diane Warren.

Being friends with Pam means she is considered enough to you to know that you would appreciate her sitting next to Diane Warren at events and we'll text you about them. I want everyone to come with me whenever I'm at something like this. Oh, you guys. I am staring at Ariana Grodney. The day I spent vicariously living through you at the Oscars nominee luncheon where you literally just like kept sending us videos was so wonderful. It might be why they don't invite me back to everything. But the point is I have pure fan face. Like, I'm not trying to paparazzi.

I, oh my gosh. I saw Angie Scott holding Billy Eilish. And I was like, my eyes are worth so much money right now. I remember you were like standing not far from Tom Cruise at one point. I talked to Tom Cruise. Yes, that's right. He bumped into me and apologized. And we got a conversation.

He took a picture from my mom. Like, he was really. that luncheon, he was acting like, he had invited us all. This is why he's going to win the Oscar for this in your into movie. Not true. He is energy. Yes.

What else did we want to talk about? Errol Morris does eventually win the documentary Oscar for Fog of War. Fog of War, a movie I really, I really like, is a very much just like a conversation with, and of course, I watched this movie. I was probably old enough to know more about Robert McNamara than I did at the time. So it probably doesn't speak well of me. But I'm like, wow, I'm learning all this new stuff about the Vietnam War.

But I thought it was a pretty fascinating movie. The way documentary can be both, he balances really well confronting McNamara while also giving him the space to sort of like tell the story his way. And it makes me think of like, the ways in which sometimes I'll get annoyed when people are like, I can't believe you platformed that person, whatever, by like, you know, posting an interview with somebody or whatever. And it's just like sometimes...

But it's also an opportunity to interrogate that person. Or just sometimes, like, listening to somebody, like, tell that story is, like, it's info, it's data points. It's like, it's more information than we had yesterday about this, you know, very important thing. My minor counterpoint to this is the fog of war did kind of inform some of Aramoros's late style, and now he's doing things that I, like, would not watch at gunpoint. Like, he did the, he did fog of war, but it's Donald Rumsfeld.

I watched that at the unknown, no, yep. Oh, okay, is that good? I thought it was, I mean, it's not as good as the fog of war, but, like, it's going, it's doing the same kind of thing for Rumsfeld, and, like, I found it to be decently, you know, decently interesting. He also did Fog of War, but it's Steve Bannon. He did that movie about John LaCarray recently that I wanted to watch, and I hadn't yet. It is so...

I mean, it's not Arrow Morris's fault. I watch that Pigeon Tunnel? Yes, Pigeon Tunnel. Yeah. John LeCoree, like, basically doesn't answer any questions. Sounds great. It's, like, kind of about, like, the secret side of Le Cicre's life that, like, only recently was known and like he just doesn't he is not a willing participant was he like secretly a spy was he actually

like doing spy i think he was like yes i think that was i remember hearing a little bit about that that he was like you wouldn't really learn much of it from the movie because he is not a very uh it's also it's fascinating that it's coming from a row morris because it's just always like he just gets people to be themselves but uh no not not a very willing participant i watched his Manson Murders documentary on Netflix from last year, that was not good. I mean, it's really hard to, like, bring something

new to the Manson murder story at this point, and, like, he doesn't. So, um, there's that. I like his, I do like him as a, you know, as a personality, as sort of, uh, you know, a, you know,

um, a little bit of a nudge, right? You know what I mean? The, um, the documentary he did for the post 9-11 Oscars, where they did this whole opening thing, and people remember it for Tom Cruise showing up with Envisaline and welcoming everybody to the Oscars and saying how the movies matter. And then the Woody Allen thing, where Woody Allen showed up for like the first time ever,

and everybody was like, yay! But in between all of that, they air this, like, lengthy little Errol Morris directed thing where he's just like asking people about their favorite movies. Because there was a lot of anxiety over that Oscars and whatever about like, there really was a lot of like, should we be having the Oscars? What does it mean? And also, it's a big public event that could be bombed if one were so inclined.

And so there was a lot of anxiety. And this like lengthy Errol Morris documentary where like he's just sort of chatting it up with famous people and not famous people and sort of like getting them to talk about their movies. and my historical stance is like, you can't have a long enough movie montage for me at the Oscars. I will, I'm seated for this. And so I really loved it. And it's not just the clips of the movies.

It is the conversations that he gets into with these people. And you hear him sort of asking them these leading questions about this and that. It's really, I wish it existed in short form on the internet. You have to kind of find that Oscars. hopefully somebody is hosting it and won't get taken down. But worth it to check it out. Put it in the museum. Yes, my God, yes.

But yeah, what do I have in my notes? The lurid shots of the milkshake. Oh, chocolate liquid was written down on the little sketchpad of the crime scene. It said chalk, chalk period liquid. I was like, nailed it. That would be my T-shirt request from the Sint Bluzeon. like my deep-dye t-shirt. Yes.

If only 824 were producing that movie, they would get the merch out. It is terrifying the ways in which, watching the ways in which the police are able to give people to give false confessions. Like it is watching brainwashing in action in a way that is terrifying. I don't, am I the only person who watches these things

and like starts to like formulae, a strategy of like, all right, if I ever get brought in for a crime, I've not committed, what's my strategy? At what point do I ask for the lawyer? Do I, you know, is it right away? Do I, like, how do I not get bamboozled the way that these people are bamboozled? I got to have a strategy, because when it happens, I got to be ready. So, um, they'll start swinging pocket watches in front of your face. Something, something. Um, and most of the time, it's just people are just like just don't want to be in this room anymore. Like,

yeah. It really is just like that level of like basic. That is the human brain. The human brain, yeah. This movie went through a lot of cigarettes. A lot of shots. So many shots of as cigarette butts. A lot of that.

Cigarette butts that have the hole in them from the other cigarette being put out on the cigarette butt. The guy was like, oh, I forgot what my childhood home looked like. The guy was able to sort of approximate how long he was. in the interrogation room by being like, I went through two packs of cigarettes and I was out of cigarettes for quite a while. So, like, he was like literally like, that's how long. He measured his life in cigarette butts at that point.

Like, that's what he was reduced to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else we want to talk about before we jump into the games of it all. Good movie. Yes. I do think that there is a level of...

talking about this movie. I know that we've talked a lot about other documentaries. And like to that one Gary we have who has long since begging us to do a documentary, we salute you specifically. I know that we've spent

a lot of time talking about other documentaries and how this movie works in relations to other ones. There is a dated quality to this while this whole thing kind of unfortunately remaining timeless. Yeah. It is impossible to talk about this movie outside of the context of, like, the genre of two true crime documentary.

And it's maybe unfortunate, but I do think at least what makes it still really fresh is just the level of idiosyncrasy that Morris is able to get on screen with this kind of like small town mentality. And like Pam was saying, everybody on screen thinks that they are right. Oh, you know what we haven't talked about is the couple, the lady who, like, makes it her business to, like, snitch on folks. And the other lady who thinks she's a piece of trash. Yes. The lady with the eye is. Actually trash. Yeah.

And talking to her husband, it's an interracial marriage. And so, and all of the implications that that, the way that, you know, these two are talked about because of that. But they were driving by. and the husband, the way he tells it, is like, I just want to drive by. And the way the wife tells it is just like, I kept telling him slow down. Like, I just want to just like, and it's like totally unapologetic about like, I do this all the time. Like, I go and I see if something's going on and I make sure I like have a good look and I know what time it happens so that if I ever get called upon. But it goes to your thing that you were saying, Pam, in your plot description, where like so many of the people around this story had an investment in making sure.

that like an electric chair event happened. Like, people wanted somebody to fry, and they were going to get in on this action however they could. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, I did at some point think, like, did he track down absolutely everyone that was anywhere near? I was like, are we going to interview the women in the movie on the drive-in?

Yes. How did you get second car guy who was like, oh, man, I was just driving. I just was driving. I please, why are we all here? It's one of my favorite genres of people, which is bystander who knows that this is their moment, right? Like, this is not a documentary, obviously, but like Oliver Stone's JFK does one of my favorite sections of that movie is when he's, Kevin Costner's talking to the eyewitnesses who were there at the motorcade. at the in Dallas. And the one lady is just like, well, everybody noticed me because I had my big red raincoat

and, you know, and my, you know, beautiful blonde hair and whatever. And it's just like, oh, right. And all of these things come from in somewhere and other like transcripts. But I'm like, oh, this is a very like sort of like recognizable type. It also makes me think of the comedian Vinnie Thomas, who I love, who did the spider. The bird of pride. He did the pigeon at pride, but the spider on Queen Elizabeth's casket. And his whole thing is like, I never wanted to be a star.

Like, I never wanted to be famous. And it's like that kind of thing. It's great. So good. I'd like to point out the current form of the opposite of this film. I didn't put that well at all. But when I'm watching something like where the thin blue line is taken, true crime documentaries, I thought a lot about the perfect neighbor.

and I thought about the doc short incident from a couple of from last two. Yes, yes. Incident was incredible. Incident was so good. Yes, yes. Incident was the one that took was just from dash cam footage. And surveillance footage. And surveillance footage of a police shooting in Chicago?

Yes. Houston, Chicago, in Chicago. And you're watching multiple screens at the same time. The way they're able to put that together into not even just like a. coherent story, but in a, like, incredibly compelling and, like, ultimately infuriating story. I don't even think there's score. I think it's just the footage. It's really something. And, of course, it didn't win. And then, yeah, perfect neighbor has more to work with because it is a lot of body cam footage from the cops who went to go answer the multiple complaint calls from this white lady and then also the people who live in there. neighborhood. That is a movie that will make you real pissed off after watching that movie.

You will get real, real mad about specific people, but also about fucking stand your ground laws that are just like the ways in which they turn normal human interaction into like life and death fucking war zone shit. That is. But you're also, you also watch her confessional footage, right? She's in the interrogation room. Yeah. Yeah. Like, how does she handle things right away. Just, you know, it's always people in shorts. People are always just in shorts on these foldy chairs sitting there dumbfounded with a water bottle. Like, how did I get here? Well, and the way in which she like, I mean, this lady's personal, like, the way, the many ways in which you can, you know, one person can apply victimhood to themselves is quite something. And,

but ultimately, you're right. Ultimately, like, she didn't know shit from shit. Like, she doesn't like she has no self-preservation, you know, instinct or whatever. She's just sort of like, they're, they're in her shorts, you know, in this interrogation room. Yes. I think you're right, though, Pam, to point out that there is this pendulum swing now that it's like, it's, especially about documentaries about crimes that have happened, this full swing to we are using all archival footage.

It will let you decide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's still a hand, right? There's still a hand that lets you know. Have you seen Natchez yet this year? No.

The editor I'm working with on one act was the editor of Natchez. This film is fantastic, and I highly recommend it. What is it about? It is about the complicated state of Natchez, Mississippi. Essentially, these antebellum homes, people just aren't interested in these tours as much anymore. where they get dressed up and they're gone with the winds and show people around. And so there's also a telling from the black perspective and what actually happened in Natchez. And it sort of immerses you in these two worlds and how do we reconcile with our past?

How do you tell these stories? What is what is just like, can't we just put on nice clothes and have a nice time and get married here? And do I have to think about what happened here? Right. It is it is storytelling in an excellent way to make you constantly like think, is this, wait a minute, like, letting people talk to the point where you're like, oh, hang on. They have more to say. Yeah. It's not exactly how this was presented.

It's also beautiful. Like, it is gorgeously shot. But that is another one where it's presented. like this is just the camera walking around and you're seeing what you're seeing what you're seeing but the deeper you go the more complicated it gets like how do you how do you tell how do you tell history these days that's fascinating i love that i do love a good documentary man like even if it bums me out even if it makes me mad even if whatever like finding out it's one of those things where it's like finding out you like i mean comparing documentaries to vegetables is a thing that, like, is not a thing that documentarians want me to do. But it is kind of, like, realizing when you're an adult that, like, oh, wow, like, if you roast Brussels sprouts, like, they're fucking delicious. Oh, my God.

I love broccoli. It's just sort of, it's just like, oh, wow, like, being an adult is, like, fun. And, like, not being, like, not having, like, childish, like, aversions to things is fun. This is how I feel when someone's like, do you want to watch this crime action, heist, shoot him up, film? I'm like, oh. Does it, is it, is there sugar in the, in the, is someone pretty in it? Who takes off their shirt?

Is there nacho cheese sauce I can apply to this in any possible? Can't they be magicians? Then I'll watch it. You have me at magicians. Chris, why don't you let our listeners know how we do the IMDB game? Wait, just, why aren't these how you see me, now you see me films in the Oscar discourse? They are perfect. They are.

These are the magicians you're talking about. Okay, no, let's talk about this. They are perfect. Jesse Eisenberg just said, like, he's ready for the next one because it's his happy place. And I hard agree these films are my happy place. It'll happen for now you seven. With Julianne Moore is my happy place. That's what we're going this year.

Same. Same. Let's finally here for us. Let's go. Let's go. It's finally like, fine, I'll make the movies you guys want. You know, because we've talked about Magic Mike. We love Magic Mike.

Magic Mike Live. one of the like life-changing nights of my life, there's now going to be, Now You See Me Live. Live episode of this at Oscar Buzz. We're all going to Vegas. Ooh, that'll be so much fun. Yay.

Oh, my God. That's a good double feature. Yes. All right. Okay, I'm sorry. Game time. Game time. All right, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game where we challenge

each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known. for. If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we'll mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That is the IMDB game. Fantastic. Pam, as our guest, it is up to you to decide who you want to give your clue to and whether you want to give that clue first or whether you want to guess first. I'll give my clues to Chris.

I'm going to be so terrible at this game that you should decide when you want the comic relief of me play. Do you want to close or do you want to close being the winner, one of you, either of you? We'll close with Pam. If anything. Pam, this is great because now I'm going to torture Joe when we get to Joe. All right. Okay. So Pam, you give your clue to Chris first, Chris to me, and then I will quiz Pam.

So at first I was like, what am I supposed to find? What are we doing here? But then I realized this movie stars Philip Glass. And because this movie is the hours but a documentary. So I went toward the hours, which is why. As we are prone to do on this show. So I saw your list did not include the esteemed John C. Riley. Nice.

Wow. I love it. Okay. Step brothers. No. Wow. Okay. Okay.

this is going to go well. Chicago. Yes. Walk hard. Yes. Boogie nights? No. Okay.

What are my years then? I tell you for both your remaining two. The two remaining? Yes. Yes. Yes. 2014 and 2018. Wow.

Those seem late for John. Is 2018 Sisters Brothers? No. Oh, interesting. 2014 and 2018 That's so interesting Is 2014 Is he in Talladega Nights?

He might be but it's not listed here Okay This is Not where I was expecting this to go What else was he doing the same year as Sisters Brothers Because that was 2018 Unless Joe correct me if I'm wrong

Sisters Brothers Brothers was either 2018 or 2019. Right. What does it say here? It says... It's 2017. Oh, it might be 2017. Okay, 2017.

Okay, so it would be then after Sisters Brothers. What would he... Because at that point, he's going kind of from lead role back to character roles. And now you kind of don't see him very much anymore.

I have a pretty good hint for this one. Oh, what's the hint then? He got a... He got a Golden Globe nomination for it. Oh, Stan and All... No, not Stan and Ollie. It is Stan and Allie. But I just want to point out, 2018,

he was also in a film called Ralph Breaks the Internet. Oh, a little film... Oh, that's true. But you didn't say it was a voice. I was going to wait for him to guess. No, no, no. Stan and Ollie's on here. It's not Ralph Breaks of the Internet. Oh, okay. Oh, I have to tell you if it's...

Yeah, if it was a... It was a voice role you would have to say. This third one is also a film. This last one is also not a... Is it? Not a voice. Is it? Is it?

Well, yeah, that's true. Wow, that is going to send me on a tailspin. He's got a really small role in this. He does show up in the trailer. This is a weird one. Yeah. Is it a voice? I couldn't tell you.

No, he's actually like in it. Like mocap? No. No, he's just, he's in it. It's just a very small role. The film is such that if you don't remember who everybody is, you're like, some people were doing voices. Right. Yes. Definitely, yes. There were definitely some people whose only job in this movie was to voice a mocap character. In 2014, mocap movies were.

This is wild. I'm sure he's not mentioning it. It's not like chappy. Is it? I'm pretty sure he shares most of his scenes with. a like famously oft-nominated actress. Merrill Street. Offed nominated. Glenn Close. Yes. Oh, is it Guardians of the Galaxy?

It is in fact Guardians of the Galaxy. Why is that on his known for? I don't even know what he's doing. Who is he in Guardians of the Galaxy? He's like an official of the like Novacore or whatever with Glenn Close. Wow. Corpseman Day. Yes.

That is a legit. hard known for. It is. All right. Chris, you give to me. Joe, I had to do this to you. You're welcome, and I'm sorry. I know that you love the documentary 20 feet from stardom.

I do. I know that we as gay guys collectively love, Darlene Love. So I'm giving you Darlene Love. Oh, you're giving me Darlene Love. Oh, wow. I thought you were going to give me like somebody from Home Alone, lost in New York or something like that. No.

Darlene Love, her known for, is all acting roles. It's all act, so it's not even like 20 feet from stardom where she, like, is just herself. No. Fantastic. Okay. Well, shit.

You'll understand why I did this. Okay. And one of them's not, like, the SML that she, like, did the song. Pam, you just looked it up, didn't you? Oh, my God. Okay. Are any of these, like, voice-only, like, animation?

No. No. She's live action in movies. Yes. And she plays characters. Is it like, are they all related? All these movies, like, connected to each other in some way? Yes.

You don't, you haven't made any guesses. I haven't made any guesses. I recently had to help my mom find this. The problem with Darling Love is I can't just start making any guesses because I won't know the only way to throw out guesses is to know what this is. The concept of Darlene Love being known for these four movies and not any of her music is also crazy.

Is she in like Star Trek? No, Star Trek is incorrect. I will guess that I will take that. I will take that to mean you think she is in the J.J. She's like a Starfleet. Like, she's like the guinen of the original, like, you know, Star Trek movies or something. Star Trek is incorrect. Star Trek, the motion picture.

How about that is incorrect? Thank you. Not wrong to start with a franchise. I know I'm being evil. I'll give you vague hints until I can give you real. And I had that. It's how I learned there was a TV version having to help my mom navigate to find this. Is she in fame?

Fame? Fame is incorrect. Your years are 1987, 1988, 1989, 1989, 1992,

and 1998. Is she in the lethal weapon movies? Wow. Is she Danny Glover's wife in the lethal weapon movies? She's Danny Glover's wife in the lethal weapon movies. Much like Danny Glover, Darlene loves whole known for, is all for the lethal weapon movies.

Pam, how evil is that that Danny Glover's known for us all. lethal weapon movies. Isn't that wrong? It's, I mean, I, well, he was really known for these films. I mean, he's great as a catchphrase we still use every day. Everybody. There was a lethal weapon TV show? Yeah, so this was, mom was like, it's the wrong one. She kept saying to me, I'm trying to watch lethal weapon, but it's the wrong one. It's with the bad people. It's the people I don't want to see. And I was like, what could she be talking about? So I'm at her house. What I think we, I know, first I tried on the phone because I didn't want to go over. I was like, could you just show me

on the phone. And I'm like, what is that? It's like, it was like, there's a TV show. And she says, yes, I've seen this eight times. I want to watch the movie with, with, with my guys. That's what she calls these gentlemen. Mel Gibson, one of her guys. Both, yeah, both of the guys. So, found it. You can buy them together as a package. Fantastic. And then she still says that was the wrong one. So I don't know. Chris, that's so diabolical. But I had to do it, right? Because of how mad I was when I got. Got Danny Glover and it was all lethal weapon. That was very fun. All right. Pam. Oh, boy. This is going to be awful. So we're doing the thin blue line. I thought, well, okay, it's a documentary. What am I going to do?

Aha, the thin red line. So I went to the cast of the thin red line. I said, oh, you know what? I'll do Ted Danson from the thin red line because he's like got a small role on that. Turns out, I was thinking about saving private right. So back to the drawing board. And this person we haven't done for a while in like several years, so I figured we could do him again. A very small role in the thin red line, but it's John Travolta. Okay. But thank you.

This was an imaginary boyfriend of mine. Okay. This is in a pre-Johnny Depp world, it was John Travolta. Okay. So let me see what I can do here. It has to be Greece. Yes. Okay. What are we doing?

It has to be grease. I'm going to write things down that are coming to me before I make guesses, just so I don't forget. Famously a thing you're allowed to do on this, even though Chris tried to shame me for it. That's crazy. I just, too many things are coming, and I'll forget when I start guessing and being told I'm wrong. It hurts to be wrong, and then you forget things that are important. This is an extra hot grade. You're not going to... We have all the time in the world. Okay. Pulp fiction.

Yes. Two for two. Phenomenon. Not phenomenon, although a good guess. Michael. Not Michael, also a good guess. Okay. Masterpiece, Michael.

You'll get your years for the two movies you're missing, which are 1977 and 1995. Okay. Well, I was going to say Saturday Night Fever, but then I thought maybe we were getting, that was too old. So I feel bad. I should have said that one. Saturday Night Fever is correct. 1995. If it helps you orient yourself, Pulp Fiction is 195.

1994. Right. Wow. Gosh. Because I do think I'm like right to Michael in phenomenon. So it's in this. It's right around that time. It's right in that time. Yep. And it's bigger than those two. One of the stars of this movie who's on the poster is in the lethal weapon movies. Is it at least two, but I'm going to say at three. I don't think this person's in all four lethal weapon movies. Is he in, is it, he's in a Joe Pesci movie? Notcho Pesci. Is it Renee Rousseau? It is René Rousseau. Tanchovolta and Renee Rousseau.

People are yelling now. People are yelling at me now. Is it like a law crime movie? There are crimes, yes. Yes, there are crimes happening. Perhaps we could say crime comedy. Oh, get shorty. Get shorty.

Yes. I was going to say, not Joe Pesci, but another famously shortballed. I did so much better than I would have. thought. I was not going to get Get Shorty without hints, but I feel back because I just should have done Saturday Night fever right away. Well, Get Shorty is surprising that it's on as known for. It's cool that it's known for. He wanted a golden globe for it though. So I feel like that probably helps. So, but yes. Um, well done. Good job. Thanks. Uh, once more, where should people go for the everything they need to know about one act, including the trailer that will make

you cry? Oneactfilm.com. that trailer's right there at the top, and you can join our fundraiser, or you can send it to someone that you're like, hey, these people need help. Hey, wouldn't it be great if this movie was available to watch right now? Yeah, what if it could come out next year? I want to take it to festivals near you. Fantastic. Thank you, as always, for guesting one of our faves. Anything else you want to direct people to besides one act?

Yeah, go see at natchezfilm.com. to watch Natches. It's streaming things right now. If you like docs, you will like this. It is very well-made. All right. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky? Chris V-File. That's F-E-I-L. If you want more of This at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this at oscarbuzz.com and our Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz. I can be found at Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed. Read-spelled R-E-I-D. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for our fantastic artwork. Dave Cole

Dave Cole, Dave Cole, that's so, it's because you're here. We're going to take that back. We want to thank Dave Cole for being great. We're going to thank Dave Cole for being Dave Cole and the inspiration to us all. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork. Taylor Cole for our theme music and Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevis for their technical guidance. Please remember, you can rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get podcasts.

A five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So polish off that taste. chocolate malted milkshake. Don't spill any of it on the pavement and instead write something nice about us. Thank you. That is all for this week, but we hope you'll be back next week for more votes.