This Had Oscar Buzz - 399 – Lovely And Amazing (with Jeff Hiller!)

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Emmy winner Jeff Hiller joins us this week to talk about one of our beloved Nicole Holofcener’s earliest films. Lovely and Amazing follows a Los Angeles family of women burdened by insecurities, from the mother (Oscar nominee Brenda Blethyn) opting in to liposuction to her two adult daughters who help her with a preteen adopted sister. Debuting … Continue reading "399 – Lovely And Amazing (with Jeff Hiller!)"

No, the right house. I didn't get that! I can't have! I've drunk kind of that water. Dick poop. What did they say about me? I want to know. They said you weren't sexy. I think you're sexy.

Can you give me a job? I can have sex with you. You were supposed to contribute once Maddie went to school. I'm trying to sell my art bill. Maybe you should just get a job. You know, a job, job, job. I'd like to apply for the job. What do you do?

You do. I'm an artist. Aren't you giving me a smile or something? You're hired. Thanks. I thought you worked out a one hour photo. I take my pictures to a one hour photo. It takes about an hour. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast making a run for the fence at the youth facility. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong.

The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I'm your host, Joe Reed. I'm here as All always with my lipo consultant, Chris Fyle. Hello, Chris. You know what? In these circumstances, Michael Norrie is a very handsome man. I will take it. Michael Norrie, draw on me with your marker. It's fine.

I would be a horrible lipo consultant. First of all, that's one science. No. And then I would just be like, Brenda Blythe, you really don't need to do this. You would be like when I worked at the cell phone store when I was in college. And I like, everybody who came in and they were like, so like, what kind of phone should I get?

And I'm like, you probably don't need much more than like this basic plan or whatever. Yeah, you're telling people, I don't know, a landline. And finally, they're like, no, we want to like sell them, you know, like, you know, try and like push the bigger. And I'm like, but these people don't need that. They don't need like. This was back when it was just like, you paid per minute. And so they're like, try and sell the unlimited plan. And I'm like, they just want it for their daughter to like call them on emergencies or whatever.

So I was bad. Listen, I'm only working here because Catherine Zeta Jones is the spokesman. That store is now a weed shop. So we are, more vape than weed, actually, whatever. You know the type. You know the type of the store. It's giving me hives to not bring in our guests, to go this long without bringing in our guests. So we're going to do that.

We have a fantastic guest for you. We have our second Emmy-nominated actor from last year's supporting actor in a comedy series. We're going to catch them all because we've had Bowen-Yang on here before. Perhaps in the future, Coleman Domingo, Michael Yuri, Harrison Ford, give us a jingle. Harrison Ford seems like he would be very into doing this. Very, very chill and cool about that. Yeah, totally. But one of my faves going all the way back to when I saw him on stage in Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson,

Academy Award, sorry, Academy Award, Academy of Television Award winner, also known as the Emmys. What a bummer. Jeff Hiller, welcome to this had Oscar buzz. We're so happy to have you. Thank you for having me. What a joy. What a joy indeed. On the heels of your follow-up Emmy nomination for Pluribus, congratulations for that.

Thank you. It's very surprising. They had you. and Liza Colonsaisus up there presenting the Emmy nominations, I said, in a triumph for height disparity pairings. She was wearing like four-inch heels, and I still looked like I was about to just like take her up onto the top of the Empire State Building. How much preparation? I've always wanted to ask this of somebody in this position, so thank you for being my guinea pig here. How much preparation do they give for you guys in terms of like name pronunciation? Because we always like this is a thing, you know, often.

You and Liza were both pristine about it. But like, what is that process like? That is, this was like fascinating for me too because I, because they're very strict about like we are not giving you any sort of advance notice or whatever. And so they took just the two of us like nobody else like our hair. We couldn't do it while we were. were getting our hair and makeup done or whatever. Right.

You had to be in isolation. Yeah, into a separate room. And they gave us a long list, just like, you know, a, whatever, a word document with just like probably 30 names. Uh-huh. And they were like, this is a list of some people that may or may not be included in the awards nominations. And we just want to make sure that they're pronounced correctly.

And so, like, yeah, yeah, Abdul Matin was in there. And I was like, okay. I could see maybe I was like, I think this might be a surprise. Because that was the biggest surprise nomination of all of them. I remember. I literally did a double take on the Zoom call that we were on where I was like, wait a second. Wonder Man, okay.

I was like, I don't feel like you put in one that you would think I would have a hard time saying. Right. Unless you need me to say it. But then there were some other people in there that, you know, that I expected to be that. that weren't or whatever. Right. Yeah. But it would be like, can you pronounce John Ham?

Got it. Yeah, right. And by the way, also, yeah, yeah, Abdulmatine, too. Well, because of famous people. Nobody wants the, the Philomania repeat, I suppose. Although, like, you know. Filomani.

I forgot about that. I mean, Adel Dezim is the biggie, right? Well, of course. Yes. Yes, exactly. That one, at least, they knew, you know, they didn't have to keep that name under wraps. And he still couldn't get it.

We need more of this. We need a full categories worth. We have those two. We have dick poop. We need more. Have you seen that vocal news one when she's like, her name is D-D-D-Megadu? Mega-Doodoo. Speaking of like scrolling through Amazon stories, like local news bloopers, I like am so familiar

with the All-Stars. Like, he's gay. I mean, he's blind. I was going to bring that up. It's exactly my favorite one. The one about, like, he was arrested for threatening to blow this place up, and I'm just realizing what he meant by that. The one with the sketch drawing of the children.

And it looks exactly like the guy. It's so good. Oh, man. This is what entertainment has become. Jeff, what does it feel like to be announcing the number? nominations and then your name comes up while you're, you know, trying to just do your job. How do you process that? Well, you don't announce that I was nominated in guest actors, so they don't announce.

That's the, that's the unimportant award. You think your day's over, you know? That's true. My manager was there and he came and I was like, oh, what are you doing here? And he came up and was like, you got nominated. And I was like, for what? Because I was thinking Widows Bay and I was like, what? How did I get nominated for Widows?

And then I realized, oh, I see. Well, and then Widows Bay gets 19 nominations, which is so cool, so thrilling that, you know, it feels like that show. I mean, you and I talked about this briefly for a piece that I was doing on Vulture a couple weeks ago about how sort of organic that groundswell has been for that show.

And then to get like, nominations to the point where like Dale Dicky's getting nominated. That one, I literally did like a whoop and like a cheer at my desk when I was reading those nominations. Did you ever see her in that movie Love Song? It's so good. She is. So good.

When I first met her on set, I was like, I just really love doing a love song. And she's like, oh, yeah, that's a good movie. I was like, well, like, that's all you're going to say? It's just a beautiful romance that, you know, gets to be just, I mean, A, we don't really see many romances now, but it's like a romance for actors of a certain age. It also gets to be, like, kind of hot at one point and just, like, a really, like, unique directorial perspective.

I loved that movie. She also told me that she played Mrs. love it. Oh, wow. Can you even? When and where? I was going to say, where did that happen? We certainly weren't doing anything as important as seeing that. Is that a regional theater? Probably like 15 years ago or something like that. Oh, my God. In Tennessee with her former, where she went to grad school. That's fantastic. Wow. To have been able to like see that and just be like, I was there when Dale Dickey did Mrs. Love it. Man, that's fantastic. I also wanted to say we would be remiss our good friend Katie Rich, our frequent guest, would certainly want me to mention how much we talk about the 30 Rock episode that you're in with Matt Damon on the airplane.

Oh, yeah. We talk about Katie and I in particular talk about all the time. Oh, really? I actually, she, because I used to listen to her on, well, now I listen to her on that Enklift podcast, but. I used to listen to that Little Gold Men. And so I was always, like, when she interviewed me, I was kind of starstruck. But she didn't tell me anything about 30 Rock. Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, we talked about that episode quite a bit. Your character went to Carnegie Mellon for drama. This was improvised by. That was improvised. I'm glad you remembered that because I like always think of that. Fantastic. All right. So excited to have you on the podcast, finding out that you were a listener of

this head Oscar buzz was such a thrill. Although when I saw all of the, all of your people that you've done for the, the IMDB game, I was like, I've missed a lot of podcasts. You have so many. We've been here for a minute. There's a lot that goes in one year and out the other, you know.

This is episode 399. We really can't expect people to have, Get Ready, listener, episode 400. Next week, it's a doozy. Are you going to do a big celebration? We are. We have worked. We've been talking about it. We've picked a movie that we've been, you know, wanting to do for quite a while. And we'll save that as a surprise for our listeners, but very excited. I feel like maybe I listen to 200 or 300. We appreciate. Listen, if you, if you listen to five, we would really appreciate it. Thank you and we apologize. But we sort of approached you to see what.

you were interested in. And you mentioned a specific year range, which I thought was very indicative of the fact that, like, oh, like, we share similar, like, backgrounds and this kind of thing where you said you worked, you worked at a video store? A movie theater. Oh, a movie theater. Thank you. Sorry. From when to when? Well, the movie theater I was only there from like, I don't know, like seven months. Oh, okay. And like 1999 in between two social work jobs. But during that five-year period that I gave you was when I was like, I saw everything.

Yeah. Everything. Yeah. And especially anything that had Oscar buzz was like. Totally. Because that was the time when I would read Entertainment Weekly from like. Cover to cover. Literally from cover to cover.

Like, you know, because you, the Mark Harris thing at the end, you know. Right, right. And then the cigarette ad on the back. Yeah, yeah, totally. Before they went to bullseye. Yes, that's right. God, that back page, they did sort of cycle through quite a bit of that back page of EW. We'll have to talk about that, Chris, at some point.

But I was like, I was like, I'm Lisa Schwartzburn, but I can. and respect Owen Gleberman. Right. Right. There's nothing like a Lisa Pan. Lisa was mixed, kind of mixed negative on Lovely and Amazing. I didn't really quote anything from it, but I was going through the Metacritic reviews. And like, Lisa was kind of so-so on this one.

But so we sort of settled on Lovely and Amazing from that era. A Nicole Hollifson joined her second feature film after, Walking and Talking, a movie that I loved, loved, loved, loved. And I love that she kept the same cadence, title, Cadence, where it's just like, you know, a word. Although this is an ampersand, and walking and talking is and, which absolutely, like, drives me crazy in terms of trying to remember which is which when I'm doing things like Cinematrix or whatever, and like trying to, just like listing movie titles and whatever, and it's like, oh, I always get it wrong. But because of walking and talking, this movie had a little bit of anticipatory buzz, and it had played the festivals.

But what made it, what made this title stand out to you as something you would want to cover? Well, Nicole Hoffs, I just said I can pronounce all these names, and I just said, oh, man. Well, she wasn't on the Emmy list. That's true, unfortunately. Nicole Huffstettered DeZem. She is one of my favorite filmmakers. And from her Oeuvre on or whatever. And I actually, this was the first of her films that I ever saw.

And then I went back and saw Walking and Talking. And I loved it. And so she was like, she was one of the, like, first filmmakers where I was like, you know, she wasn't like a like a Scorsese where it's like even your mom knows who she is. Right.

That I was like, this is my favorite filmmaker. And she's still, I mean, like, I, you hurt my feelings? Oh,

one of my favorite movies of the year. I thought it was so great. Really good movie. I love all of her work with Julie Dreyfus. I think, I think she's just,

she really speaks to me as a filmmaker. And this film, when I saw it, I was working at the movie theater. It showed at our theater, which is the only reason I saw it. I was at a landmark.

Do you all remember the landmarks? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. The landmark on Houston in New York City was one of my favorites, and I'm still so, so sad. I know. That's so funny.

I was just thinking about it as I walked by the other day. I was at the Mayan in Denver, and it was like an old movie house, but the best part of it working there is you got to see free stuff. And even after I stopped working there, they would oftentimes just be like, yeah, you can go in.

Yeah. And that movie, you know, I was probably 20. What the year did it come out? 2002. 2002, yeah. It did like festivals in 01 and then it came out in 2002. Well, then I must have already been in New York. So my history is making is wrong.

I must have seen it in New York. Sorry. But, oh, wait, it came, I looked it up. It came out in like June of 2002, right? Yes. Okay. So now I know why. It's because I had just moved to New York.

Oh, no, that would have been a year. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point is. The emotional truth of it was that you're in Denver in your soul when you're thinking of lovely. It's like when the history. You weren't fully settled. This is when I wrote my book, I would like go back and read my journals and be like, wow, my memory is off. I think I, I, this movie meant a lot to me because I was in a very like low self-esteem place.

And this movie is all about... All about that, yeah. Low self-esteem. And I just really connected to it. That said, when I just rewatched it for this podcast, I was like, I didn't remember any of this. Basically, the only part I remember is Emily Mortimer going full nude and being like, so brave, so brave. What an independent spirit award for that bravery. Absolutely.

Yeah. So, Chris, we don't have as many first-time guests as we used to, but we still have a tradition with first-time guests. How could you? How could you in 399 episodes? There aren't enough people. We're also just like very, we struggle with keeping up with, like, we got to get more guests. We always say that.

And it's just like. So often episodes. are on the fly whenever we can both of our schedules align, et cetera. But like one of the joys we always like to talk about whenever we have a first-time guest on is their Oscar origin story. When did you first, you know, catch on to the Oscars or Oscar movies? Was there a particular one that, you know, really sparked your interest or made you notice the Oscars?

Well, I'd always like watched them, like, but it was like, like on an accident, you know, like when I was a kid. I'd be like, oh, and I'd be into it. But it wasn't until I was living in Denver and I was a social worker who wanted to be an actor really badly. And that I moved there in, I said I moved there in 98. And I remember being in, because I lived in a commune. It's a long story. And so the, the, when.

It's a very involved Denver experience, I'm just going to say. Joe and I were also in a commune. It was the Gold Derby Forum. Dreamy. You dreamier. Dreamier than the urban servant court, trust me. A true liminal space. So wait, what year would that have been?

It would have been, it was the films from 98, but in 99. So like Shakespeare in love, saving Private Ryan, that kind of a thing. Yes. Yes. but there was another movie I was pulling for that year, which, by the way, I'm going to be the most frustrating guest you've had. When I play your game on Vulture, I'm the worst at it. I can, I'm like five seconds in, I'm already cheating. It's like, what is the point of this?

Why are you on IMB? The part of my brain that doesn't have that creativity has the, I keep all the years of every movie. And so your brain does different, better things. I do know very obscure films if an actress won an Oscar for it. Like, would I know Still Alice at all if Julian Moore had not won for Still Alice? No, no. But I didn't even see Still Alice, but no, I know. But because somehow after I got really into improv, I stopped seeing every single movie.

But that first four are like the three years in Denver and the first like three years in New York I was like seeing. every single movie because I was so lonely. What I think about, if I had had, whatever, AMC Stubs or whatever, movie pass, I would have been so much more affordable. Now I want to, like, drill down on what that movie was from the 1998 Oscars. Is it like Wings of the Dove, perhaps? No, that's 97. That was 97.

Central Station, starting Fernando Montenegro. No. Hillary and Jackie starring Emily Watson and Rachel Griffiths. I did love that movie. But no. These are the best picture nominees?

No, these are the best actress nominees. Oh, fair. Best picture nominees were Shakespeare in Love and Elizabeth, the two movies with the character of Queen Elizabeth. Yes, yes. Saving Private Ryan and the Thin Red Line, the two war movies about World War II.

And then Life is Beautiful. The movie about Italian Exist. during the Holocaust. It was done. Life was beautiful. I remember, I think I was playing for Elizabeth that year. But maybe that was just the thing that sparked me. Yeah.

Maybe it's the next year. I don't know. Yeah. That doesn't feel like any of those films are the ones that brought me in. I think, you know what it was is that I was, I studied abroad in college. And when I came back, Titanic had come out and everyone was obsessed with Titanic. Sure, yeah. And so when I was in college, I was like, God, I guess I got to go see this movie Titanic.

and it was, you know, three hours long, so it was a commitment. And then I was like, damn it, it was as good as they said. And so I think I did that year try and watch everything that I could. But I was living in rural Texas, so there were movies that you just, they didn't come there. They just never came. Yeah, yeah. Unless you drove to Austin. But even then sometimes, you wouldn't even come to Austin.

It would be like New York and L.A., and that's it. And if you missed that one week, they were in New York and L.A., you just didn't see it. Oh, yeah. Yes. Like those very, very brief releases. And then you had to wait forever for them to get to DVD or, like, you know, God forbid if you had to wait for, like, HBO or something like that. I did have a couple of questions as I look at your filmography.

You were in one movie we have covered on this had Oscar buzz. You were a... Barely any movies. Sam, the Channel 9 producer in Morning Glory. Did Morning Glory have Oscar buzz? Diane Keaton and Harrison Ford. Diane Keaton and Harrison Ford definitely had some Oscar buzz. So we definitely did an episode on that.

Plus, Roger Michelle is one of, like, my secretly, like, I love so many Roger Michelle movies. I did too, although I was in the least of these, and I was also fully cut out. Oh, is that true? Oh, no. Well, you've done your N-DB. You can see me, but I look like an extra because I never, you never, all my lines got cut, every single line in my cut. Oh, that's a shame.

Well, one, but I did hang out for a full week with Rachel McAdams. How was that? Great. Yeah. Yes. I loved her. I loved her. Yeah.

And she had a stand end who had the exact same hair as her. And I thought that was like, so Hollywood. Just someone who's around you for an entire. shoot just looking like exactly like you. Exactly like you. That's an oddly specific Hollywood experience. But I know you were not cut out of

Greta and I want to talk about a movie that did not have Oscar buzz. But I want to give Chris File the chance to talk to you about Isabelle Huper because she's his favorite actor. She is my favorite. I adore her. And I love that movie too. That movie is so much fun.

It's bonkers. It's bonkers. Yeah. And Neil George He's a director, too, that's, like, so fascinating. Also bonkers. Yeah, I bet. I believe it. I have a couple stories about that.

But every morning when I use liquid stevia in my coffee, and every morning I think. Greta. Because, you know, she does this little thing. But the biggest. And this is in my book, too, so it's kind of lame. But I had to, they, like, sent me to a stunt coordinator to, like, make sure I could take her down and not hurt her. And it wasn't, we were shooting.

She's a tiny lady. Yeah. We were shooting in Ireland, even though it takes place in New York. And of course, she's French. So it's, uh-huh. It's a lot of confusing. But Neil Jordan, I guess doesn't whatever. Neil's like, I'm not leaving.

You're coming to me. It's like that Ridley Scott movie where he's like, we're going to film the whole thing at my vineyard in Provence because, like, I live here and I don't want to leave. Yeah. It's true. And, I mean, by the way, shooting in Ireland is so different. Like, they don't even take a lunch break. They're just like, it's like, it's like, he wants to.

I knew I, that was not an Irish accent. But the stunt coordinator was like, you're gonna take about it and grabber, and I was like, and then the one thing I understood was he was like, don't hurt her, she's a feck and living legend. But then when I went to restrain her,

she just like moed me down. Oh yeah. She was like so strong. And so, like, there was no worry about me hurting her at all. She was like, if anything, I was like, protect me. Quora Grace Moretz, protect me. I love it so much. I know.

I also remember she was wearing these big high heels and I was like, those shoes are great. And she goes, I like to feel tall. Whenever, wherever she can get it, too. Again, little lady. Oh, my God. You should tell Liza Colonsias about those shoes. But she needs stilts, you know.

Chris, is there anything else we want to get into sort of set decoration-wise before we... I'm just so happy that not only you brought a Nicole Hollis Center movie to talk about today, but that you love her as much as we do, too. I know. I remember seeing... I would have been in high school when this movie came out, and I remember seeing... it and then going back and watching walking and talking and had a very, very similar impression of this filmmaker.

And now, whenever she makes something, it's an event for, you know, people like us and people with our tastes. When I made, when I signed with my new agent, they said, like, who's, like, your dream director, like, or have you already worked with them with the Duplas brothers? And I was like, I love the DuPras brothers, but the dream is Nicole Hollisupon. Yeah. Why can't I ever say her name now? Got to work on that.

You would be such a good fit in the Cole House. Unreal. Like, it's so shocking that that hasn't happened. Because she does shoot in New York a lot, too. Yeah. Yeah. Just start hanging around the sort of, like, nice-looking neighborhoods,

and maybe you'll just bump into a film shoot at some point. Exactly. You and Catherine Keener, though. That's the two-hander that I... Oh, absolutely. This is the movie I fell in love with her. But I also, no, no, no, no. This came after being John Malcovic.

I think that's why I saw this. I, like, ran to this movie because I fell in love with her and John Malcovich. I think that's a big part of the reason why this movie got the attention than it got. And it was still a pretty small movie. But, like, even more so than Nicole Hollifson or was this was a lead follow-up for Catherine Keener from being John Malcovich, where all of a sudden people were very interested in the kinds of movies that she was going to be making. Not to mention Brenda Blethen, already a two-time Oscar. Already by this point a two-time Oscar nominee.

And nonsense, right? That was only just those two. I loved her American accent. It was so good. It's so good. I was like, oh, this is so weird to hear you talk an American. Chris, you being the Mike Lee expert, has she gone back to Mike Lee recently? Oh, gosh.

You asked me too quickly because I do think she has a very strong. small role in one of the more recent films, but she's never, she hasn't been the lead of Mike Lee, um, since Secrets and Lies. Because I feel like that would be, I would, I would sign up for that. I would sign up for like the, absolutely. Like Lee movie with Brenda Bluffin and the spotlight again. That would be awesome. Um, this movie really, really made me remember how much I like her as an actress. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I know. Um, before we head into, uh, the, part where we

task Jeff with giving a 60-second plot description of lovely and amazing. Chris, do you want to tell our listeners why they should be subscribed to our Patreon? Hello, their listener. We have a Patreon. It's going to be more of the show you love already. We call it this had Oscar Buzz,

turbulent brilliance. For $5 a month, you're going to get more of the show you already love in the form of two bonus episodes, the first of which comes on the first Friday of every month. We call these episodes exceptions. basically movies that fit that this had Oscar buzz rubric but managed to score a nomination or two. This month, actually, coming this very Friday, we will be talking about joy. I'm Joy, by the way.

We'll be talking about various adversaries in commerce. Mops. Mops. The Broadway musical maybe? No. Yes, we could talk about that, although I don't know if I know anybody who has seen it. Yes. Joe, I don't think we've, on main feed or Patreon,

talked about a Jennifer Lawrence movie since the very beginning when we talked about Serena. So this will be... Is that true? That's crazy. That's because her movies always get nominated. Well, we did mother for one of our, like, anniversary episodes. We did mother for like episode. Oh, right.

Sure, of course. 100 or 200 or something like that. Yeah. Other previous exceptions episodes that we've done, more recently saving Mr. Banks and the Bird Cage. We've talked about 90s like the American president contact interview with the vampire.

We've talked about masterpieces like Far from Heaven, Mulholland Drive. We've talked about not-so masterpieces like Medania's WE actually technically also counts as a masterpiece because of the song. Masterpiece, yes.

Things like Rob Marshall's 9. But then you're also getting a second bonus episode on the third Friday of the month, which we call excursions. These are deep dives into Oscar nerdery. We love to obsess about on this show. This month will be doing a full history of the TIF People's Choice Award. More recently, we did for the first time in about a year,

a Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtable talking about the 2012 edition. We've also done things like recapping old award shows, including Oscars, MTV Movie Awards. We talk about EW Fall Movie Preview. issues, all kinds of fun nerdery there. But go sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance over at patreon.com slash this had Oscar Buzz. Chris, do you think we could capitalize on this Madonna moment in order to get people to come

and listen to our W.E. Re-up the W.E. episode. Do you want to hear my W.E. story? Please. Yes. We're begging. I auditioned for W.E. And I booked it.

I was going to play. Okay. So you know how. the movie like maybe this whole part was cut or just I think I know my part was cut but the the you know at the beginning it starts in modern day and they're like at this auction house yes I was there I was supposed to be there playing a gay couple with Kevin Cahoon and we were we were obsessed with pugs and I booked it I booked it and it was so exciting I was going to be in a Madonna movie I was shooting two days. And one of the days was on a Monday. And I was like, great, I'm off from rehearsal that day. But then they were also shooting on a Sunday for some reason.

I don't know why. And it was the last day of rehearsal for Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson for Broadway. And no way. Alex Timbers would let me. Alex. How dare you? And so even though I, like, When I read it, I was like, this is never going to make it into the movie.

I didn't care. I wanted to hang out with Madonna for two days. Yeah. Kevin said it was amazing. And some other homosexual got my part. And I never met Madonna. Well, now we're just putting it out there. And I'm not better about it at all, Alex Timbers.

We'll find a way to get you into the Madonna biopic whenever that happens. Your day will still come. Talk about, I bet Julia Garner will look. like Liza Colenze. Somebody out there get Jeff an audience with Madonna during this prets splits. But yeah, I feel like, Chris, we can lure

all of the gay guys doing ketamine to danceiteria and just be like, we also have a Madonna thing you can listen to. We don't say anything harsh about the movie. dollars is nothing compared to what you throw down at Knockdown Center. So yes. Yes. This is the ultimate confession.

It is, in fact, the ultimate confession. Wallace and Edward giving the ultimate confession. All right, excellent. We are here to discuss the film, the 2002 film, lovely and amazing, written and directed by Nicole Hollif Center, starring Catherine Keener, Emily Mortimer, Brenda Blethen, Raven Goodwin, Jake Gyllenhaal, Angineau Ellis, which was a surprise. I did not remember.

I did not remember that even. James Legrow, Clark, Greg, and Dermott Mulroney. It premiered on August 31st, 2001 at the Telluride Film Festival. It played TIF that same year, but then did not get released until June 28, 2002, and limited release from Lionsgate. a little snapshot of June 28, 2002, at the box office. This was the opening weekend of the Adam Sandler film Mr. Deeds. Finished at number one ahead of the second week of Minority Report and the second week of Lilo and Stitch.

The third week, I put Scooby-D. Why did I put that? Scooby-D., Scooby-Doo crossover project. I guarantee you I was listening to somebody giving Big Brother live feed updates when I was reeling this out. And I was like, because D from Survivor is on Big Brother this season. So I probably just put Scooby D because of that. By the way, D from Survivor, Scooby-Doo and Ruby D just mentioned in this moment. This is only on this show.

You're not getting that anywhere else. Only on this show. You're only getting that at the San Oscar Buzz. That is impressive. That's a lot of us guarantee. Yeah. Thank you. Lovely and amazing.

Finished 36 at the box office that weekend. It was only in eight theaters. It made $91,100. in those eight theaters for the third best per screen average that weekend after Mr. Deeds and the number one per screen average that week was the notorious C.H.O. The Margaret Cho stand-up movie. You better believe I saw that. I did too. Yes, I'm pretty sure I did as well. But if you held a gun to my head, I couldn't tell you what Mr. Deeds was about at all. It's a remake, right, Chris? Of a...

Is he already wealthy or is he like average person who... suddenly gets a bunch of money. I think it's the second thing. I think he's already wealthy in, like, Billy Madison, right? I think it's, I think Mr. Deeds is when he, like, inherits... I think he, like, inherits money from somebody who dies. I remember Winona Ryder's in that movie and John Totoro's in that movie, but, yes, I either saw it or didn't see it, and I think both would equally be likely or true.

So, here's how I'm going to place lovely and amazing in this episode in a moment in time, specifically for, like, gay guys. The only cultural relevance Mr. Deeds has for me is that it is right in the middle of the free Winona movement. That's, yes, absolutely. Yes. Because that was a part of that movie's movies. It was news that she was cast in a movie this big because, like, she was not getting cast in things anymore after the sacks. Sacks, right? Shep lifted from.

Yeah. Right. Listen, Sacks should be so lucky to have Rona Riders shoplift from one of their scores. Let Winona Steele. She made Mermaids and Heather's. She should get to steal from one Sacks Fifth Avenue. Like, come on. Lydia Dietz alone.

Thank you. Thank you. It buys you a little bit of leeway as far as I'm concerned. Yes, absolutely. Jeff, are you prepared to do a 60-second plot description with the caveat that It does not matter what you answer. We're still going to ask you to do it. I'm not prepared except for that I spent 25 years doing improv.

So I guess in that sense, I am. In that sense, yes, you put in the work. You've put in the hours and you are. My 10,000 hours. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Jeff Hiller, 60 seconds to describe the plot of lovely and amazing starting now.

So, lovely and amazing is a movie about low self-esteem, basically. It's focused on a family, a mother and her three daughters. Her three, sort of all three are just sad-sac daughters. The mom is just getting liposuction. There are some medical issues that happen with it, and it affects all three of her daughters. Catherine Keener, her is the oldest daughter, I think, and who is sort of a failure to launch. trying to make like nests a thing.

Emily Mortimer, who is an actress who is, you know, hating her body and thinks her career is tied up in that. And then her adopted daughter, Annie, who is maybe 10 years old, African American, and struggling with like, where does she fit into this family and also food and body image issues when your mom is getting lipo and That is lovely and amazing. Eight seconds over. Excellent job. Perfect. Well done.

I could have gotten it in with that lovely and amazing shit. I think the last one that I did was like a minute and a half over. So like, you know, eight seconds over is perfectly fine. Yeah. No, you're doing great. You're doing great. Yes, I think that's basically lovely and amazing in a nutshell. Each of these four women or girls in the case,

of young Annie, are going through it in some particular way. And are sort of differing degrees of, I suppose you could say likable, although likability feels like a trap with this movie when you're watching this movie and evaluating this movie to try and sort of evaluate these women on their sort of, you know, how much you'd want to be like stuck in an elevator with them or something like that. But I think they all have their good and bad qualities. And I think one of the cool things about Nicole Hollifsonor is she doesn't seem too bothered by having characters who present, at least initially, as being sort of ridiculous in some way or another, because she knows that she can find, and she and her actors can find the way into these characters that will make you sort of, you know, see that humanity. and ultimately, you know, allows you to like them beyond their foibles, I would say.

I mean, that's the joy of her movies, too, is that we do get the, like, full human being of all of her characters, while also, like, her particular angle into the people that she's presenting is always maybe the side of ourselves that are true, but we may not want other people to see. Totally. So, like, watching her movies is always a little bit, like, pressing. on a bruise there's like pleasure and discomfort in it. And like this one, this one is really interesting too because I think especially like you're saying, Jeff, it's a movie about self-esteem and I think especially like feminine

self-esteem and the type of things that women, you know, the pressures women have to go through and throughout life. And it's so smart that they have a younger sister who it's like at the age when that starts to become an issue for young people. and young women. And it's also, like, Nicole Hollif Center, Nicole Hollif Center, see, I'm saying her name for me too. Nicole Hollif Center also, like, has a really smart perspective on her character's limitations, too.

So it's like when race becomes an element in this movie as well and discussing it, like, she's, again, showing the limitations of some of these characters with a really kind of bracing isn't the right word because I think one of the things about her movies is that they allow that like ugly human

behavior perspective and communication but without being like harsh like she doesn't have like a Todd Salins element to her which like I love Todd Salins too but there is like comfort in watching her movies

Yes. Yeah, I think Salins often gets sort of accused of hating his characters and whether, and that's, you know, true or not true to, you know, whatever degree. I would probably say that it's hard to make the argument that he doesn't, at least, you know, isn't using his movies to sort of, yeah, there's, there's a disdain for everybody, I feel like. Whereas I think Nicole Hollif Center comes at it from a different perspective where I think she's, these are honest portrayals of people. but she's using that honesty in order to get to what is, you know, pardon the pun, lovely about these, you know, these characters. Although, like, Michelle really does present as, like, a total nightmare for so much of this movie, where, like, she's not nice to Annie, she's not nice to her mother. she seems to be morally opposed to getting a job and is insistent on selling her little twig chairs.

And even the relationship with her daughter like at the beginning of the film she's like, no, I don't want to read to you. Come watch TV. Yes. Yes. And it's just, it's It's hard to get on board with her. And then, like, she strikes up this relationship with 17-year-old Jake Gyllenhaal,

and you're just, like, lady, what is going on? And you get the sense that, like, she thinks her husband is maybe sleeping with somebody else, although that remains unexamined largely. Yeah, you get the little nod to where he's. He's swimming with her friend and touches her leg, but that's all that really is explicitly told to us that it's true. Yeah. Well, she also says later in her phone call when he's,

I'm giving way too much, but I guess people already saw it. But when she says, Yeah, people have had their chance. Was Joy about, like, she says something like, was that woman about our daughter? Right, yes. When he's haranguing her on the other side of her one phone call from J. I do like that this movie had the foresight to get ahead of age gap discourse, whatever.

We're just like, no, we're just going to fully like half her get arrested for statutory rape. It's just like, okay. Can we talk about how Jake Jellenhall is supposed to be nerdy? I know. I know. And he's talking about how he has pimples. I'm like, where? Where?

I challenge you to show me where. Yes, absolutely. showed up to set still with his bubble boy hair 100% yes absolutely this is also the big sort of Jake Jillon Halls in a whole bunch of things year because he's in bubble boy also comes out this year right and moonlight mile is this year the movie he was in with um Dustin Hoffman and susan sarandon and by the time this is reaching theaters uh donnie darko is really taking off on On DVD. And then the Good Girl also comes out in 2002.

And so this was like the year where like, oh, like Jake Gyllenhaal keeps dating older actresses who I guess will eventually be in Please Give because it's Jennifer Aniston and Catherine Keener. Not Please Give. Friends with money. Friends with money. Thank you. But yeah. And then like by contrast, Emily Mortimer is sort of the. sweeter, more

outwardly kind of loving sister. She's the one who really takes care of Annie and and dogs. And the dogs, right. But she's sort of like... The wound on her face when she, at the end of the movie,

tries to save the dog. The wound on her face is so so funny. And they really make you wait to look at it too is the other thing was just sort of like that pan across, and you see it, and it's just like, oh, it's like the mark of cane, it's... Yes. And how you don't see the attack on camera. Right. I love anything that is like a cut to, like, a hospital.

Like, cut to... The Simpsons would do that all the time, just, like, smash cut to, like, an ambulance with a siren or whatever. But, like, she's so... She's kind of the... most, the closest to a stereotypical portrait where it's like the insecure actress, right, who, you know, can't stop asking her agent to tell her what the director really said about her, why she didn't get the role and whatever, and is micro-focusing on, like, parts of her body that she, you know, feels like are making her, she has flabby upper arms or something like that, which is,

A big bush I was like I was like Merkin That's a murkad It's like nowadays Whenever there's like a penis in a scene And you're always just like

Fake I know they're all fake now There's nothing to believe in There are no real penises in films anymore Harkin back to the days of Harvey Keitel Back when you know They were all real Emily Mortimer is so

So great in this movie too I think one of the other things of Nicole Hall of Center movies, because uniformly her actors are always great, but there's always at least one person in every movie that's like, they really should be in another Nicole Hall of Center movie, because they totally get what she is all about. And I thought that about Emily Mortimer, because she doesn't push for projecting the insecurity of this character,

and in some way she just kind of is like, opening herself up to all of it, and especially, like, the nude scene is, like, the obviously big example for it. She doesn't lean into, like, oh, she, this character's crazy, or this character's, like, kooky. Like, she keeps her really, like, grounded.

I mean, when I was watching it, I, it's funny that you were, like, she's the stereotypical character, because what I was just like, I was like, I know this woman. I am this woman. I am this woman. I mean, I don't need anybody else to point out my body's flaws.

You find myself. Thank you very much. Right. But to me, I was just like, oh, yes, her. Yeah, totally. This is such a realistic portrayal of a human that I know. Well, and I think it is because, like, what you said, Chris, where she just doesn't, she doesn't go over the top with that kind of stuff.

And it does feel that scene with Dermit Mulroney in the bedroom where she is fully naked is, I mean, it's memorable because of its audacity. But it's also the way in which that scene never really flies off the handle where you worry that it's going to be like he's going to say something that's totally going to set her off or reveal him to be this, you know, sort of like awful pig of a man. And he turns out to be, like, better than expected in terms of, like, kinder than expected, while also not being, like, unrealistically sort of angelic about it, right? And there's a flash of a moment where he's the one who's uncomfortable, and she, kind of, for a brief moment, takes all the power in the situation by putting him in that position. Yes. And yet she still is somebody who

refuses to take well enough for an answer. She does keep kind of pushing it. And she's like, what about the arms? And he hadn't really noticed the arms. And then she makes a point of sort of flapping her limbs or whatever. And he's like, oh, yeah, like, yeah, I see what you mean. He's just like, yeah, there's some flab there. And because it does feel like she won't accept

she needs to have a certain amount of criticism in order for her to accept him as being honest with her. Like, if he was just like everything looks great, she wouldn't believe him. And so, right. Like, I felt that too. I've, like, sometimes I feel like there is a, like, golden ratio of compliment to criticism

that, like, you would believe. Like, if there's too much compliment, not enough criticism, you're like, I can't, I can't buy this. I can't accept this. And if there's too much criticism, you're just like, why are you being an asshole? And so you want it to have that perfect, like, tell me eight good things about me and two bad things about me. And I will believe it and be happy.

Like, that will be the perfect sort of like medium. And I feel like that's what she's kind of seeking in that scene. He's so good, by the way. So good. He's never gotten his, like, big role or whatever. Yeah. Like, I feel like he deserves some sort of, he's always like the man in a, he's like the boyfriend, unlike, like most women are like, I always just like the wife. Where's his the lowdown or something like that?

But he, I thought as like this character, like I also, when I watched it in 2002, I didn't know this kind of actor, but yeah, after 25 years in the business, I know this kind of actor. Yeah. so well. And it's, it's like this straight guy who's like, who is like actually straight, you know, but who's like, I'm masculine, but I'm in this like girl profession and I got to like project masculinity because I'm so which which means like they always have to be like, I don't really care about the business when really inside you can tell like, I care nothing about anything else except for making it in this business. And just like the point where he was like looking at his stomach and blaming his trainer for not having a V.

Exactly. Yeah, right, the V. Yes. I just was like, oh, yeah, yes. And I also loved, I mean, obviously, that's just good screenwriting too, right? Like pointing out her, pointing out his insecurities about his body as well. Yes. But I just felt like he gets that character.

But both of them just felt like two people I know completely. Whereas like, Catherine Keener's role, I'm like, oh, you're prickly. I don't think I probably would hang out with you after the outfit arrived. Right. So I don't know you. Yeah. It is, you know, I mean, he doesn't have a ton of time in this movie, but I do think it's always worth talking about with Hall of Center. Because, like, when we talk about her movies, naturally, we talk about the women that she's portraying because we don't really get to see women like this all that often on screen.

But she does write men incredibly well, too. and like that character is such an example of it his own brand of insecurities that it's just like it might be more palatable to people or it might get more overlooked but it is there and the James how do he say his last name?

Y'all said like Ligro? I pronounce it as Ligro but I could be being too fancy about it it could be just Lagrosse I always said Ligrose but when he said it I was like fancy by the way I thought he was on your list

I was like that one's hard anyway I thought Oh yes we definitely did him as an IMDB. He was hard. I thought he was so realistic, too, which is like, you know, like obviously poo-pooing her career, but not in a very realistic way, not in the like sort of sitcom way where it's like, why was Dorothy ever married to Stan? He's an asshole, like, what good was he? What did she ever see him? Exactly. But like, you see how like, oh, he seems

smart. He seems artistic. He knows more than me. And I'm already doubting who I am. And so I I gravitate towards him. And then as he gradually chips away at her self-esteem, she finally stands up for herself. Yeah. Yes. I also, that scene where he's like, I can't give you what you want from me.

And she's like, what do you think I want from you? And he says, you want a girlfriend who you can talk to about your upper arms or whatever. And I was just like, that's good, funny writing. Because, like, you know, it does. does not make him seem like the best guy, but it's also just sort of like, I can see why he would probably, like, be frustrated by that, but, like, all she wants to do is complain about actress things. It's like, okay, yeah.

No, the real shit in this movie is Clark Gregg as Catherine Keener's husband. The great Clark Gregg is a full asshole in this movie. I love that, like, after calling him from jail and haranguing him, that she's still able, her and Annie, are still able to tiptoe into the the house and get the daughter out of there without him waking up because he's that sort of like disinterested in, you know, following up with, you know, her or like, you know, comforting the daughter or whatever. And it's just like, yeah, like he just seems checked out. His threat to take her away from Catherine Keener is toothless because that would mean he had to take care of.

Right. He has no interest in parenting this kid, clearly. So, yeah, yeah. And what does he do? He sell stereo systems. He installs stereo systems. It's like, but she had like a, she had sort of like a domestic goddess kind of thing about it where it was like, it was like a different type of wording for what he, like a. Yes. He installs audio. Yeah, sound system, I think is what she said. Yes. But she also described it were just like, he does this for like rich people. And then she, in her scene where she's trying to sell the homemade rapping page. at the bookstore. That actor, by the way, was a real Jeff Hiller type,

and I feel like you could have killed that role. But where he's like, we're never going to be able to sell homemade wrapping paper. It's just too expensive. And she goes, well, it would be for people who don't really care about money. And he's like, that's insane. But then she sort of insults him by indicating to the rest of his store.

Like, well, look at what this is. Oh, totally. But that's her whole problem is she's selling this artwork in a way where she's like, if I can convince these people to like swindle their customers by selling this piece of shit for $60 or whatever, it's just like, that's her whole business model is like, I'm going to sell this thing that is going to be too expensive that people don't need. But like, it's my right that people should. you know, I should be able to make a living this way or something like that.

I should be able to make money this way. Which, again, is so realistic. I have so many friends who are like, we just need to make a web series. Rich people want to give their money away, Jeff. They want to. And I'm like, that's the business model. It's just like, let's get rich people to pay for things they don't need. I think the whole thing is they hoard their wealth, actually.

Yeah. Yeah. They're really good at that. They love doing that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Seems to be a trend. Yeah.

I think Catherine Keener in those. scenes too where she's just trying to like hawk her wares is she's so great in those scenes particularly because Michelle is so vulnerable and has no

awareness whatsoever that she is describing her own value to her you know weird art that she's trying to hawk with the little chairs which is like I've been in so many

local art stores where they're selling little wicker chairs come to Ohio dear But that's why it's so smart Because you're like, I could see somebody making that Uh-huh And selling it even, you know? Yeah But how personal it is for her

When no one wants it, you know And how she doesn't get why no one would want it Yeah The woman who she runs into at the one store Who she went to high school with who is now a pediatrician or whatever. I'm trying to look up the actress's name, but I'm not entirely sure who she plays. But that's such a fantastic scene where she's like, oh, my God, a pediatrician.

And she's like, what? And she's like, oh, it's just like that you're so young to be, you know, a doctor. And she's like, we're 36. And Catherine Gita just goes, yeah, but not like really 36. And that to me was relatable And I'm just like Yeah, like everybody All these people who have like

These like real legit careers and whatever Around me and I'm just like Oh but like we're still like Kids right like we're just like how can we be expected to They don't even need to be a pediatrician They just have to have laundry in their apartment And I'm like whoa Like wow that's so adults

Yeah The other thing I'm learning going through this cast list is that the guy who, or the woman who plays Jake Jelenhall's mom is Lee Garlington. I fully did not clock her. Lee Garlington, who I know best as the woman who Amy Madigan tries to start the fight with at the PTA meeting and Field of Dreams. Oh, hell yeah. She's in sneakers. She's in, you know, eight billion. She's like a phenomenal character actress. But I did not clock her. And normally I am pretty good at clocking her when I see her in things. So good for Lee Garlington.

That scene also where she's like, I think I have that bathrobe. And also just like making no excuses. No. When she's walking in, she's just like very entitled. But then when you find out like that she was like the dream high school girl. The homecoming queen. Yes. That she hasn't ever.

That's why she's so entitled. She just has always been given every. This should work out for her. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Then there's Brenda Blevine as their mom, who is a little bit of a tragic figure in just that she has seemed to really internalize these sort of small imperfections in herself. And she's, you know, seems like a really wonderful mom in, you know, all things considered.

and is, even in the ways she sort of, like, criticizes her children, they're mostly put in a, you know, loving and concerned kind of a way. And she has that scene where she, you know, speaks the film's title to Emily Mortimer, and she just says, I think you're lovely and amazing. And I'm just like, you seem like a wonderful mother. And you should not allow this world to make you think like you need liposuction. But then she has two daughters that have,

body image issues. I'm saying yes. Well, I'm like where did those come from? It works backwards and forwards. It works backwards and forwards. It's a very good way of putting it. So, yeah, I think this movie is very aware of the sort of cyclical

circular nature of this whole kind of thing. But I think the saddest thing about the character is that she doesn't really have an overarching reason or she can't define it for herself, like down to the point of why she's even getting the liposuction.

And of course, you have her doctor as Michael Nouri, who's very handsome. And it's like you go into those situations. Oh, you have a handsome doctor who, you know, might be suggesting certain things to you. And then they're that, you know, she's just subject to a lot of smaller influence that's leading towards this large, decision that she doesn't really have a large reason for. And, you know, it just affects her in this, like, very subliminal way. I think this was also the movie where I learned that, like, liposuction could have complications that could, like, seriously threaten your health.

Because, like, this was always depicted in film and television as this incredibly frivolous sort of procedure that you could just, like, pop in. They'll suck some pounds out of you and whatever, and all of a sudden you're looking fabulous and whatever. Well, then you didn't watch Oprah in the 90s. I guess I didn't watch enough of it. You did not watch a lot of E during mid-afternoons. I watched the Oprah episodes where she had Terry McMillan on warning women that their husbands might be gay.

Well, she had Kathy Griffin on talking about her liposection injuries too. Oh, well, I remember, I definitely seen Kathy's stand up talking about the Oprah episodes that she was on. But yeah, watching this, I was just like, oh, God, like, you know, this, as somebody who has sort of always been overweight, that's, that procedure has always, you know, intrigued me. And I remember seeing this and being like, ooh, that sounds not great. And, but anyway, I really felt for Brenda Bluffin in this movie. You're right, too, that, like, she is. probably raising these daughters did that did probably instill a little bit of that insecurity in them.

But I did. And also her naivete that like she might date this doctor. Like, and I love when Emily Mortimer was like, but he can see her fat. Like you're, or maybe that's Catherine Keenan. No, it wasn't Emily Mortimer, but like she like, I think it was, right? Where she, yes, but she says it so kindly to Mortimer. It reminded me of, and maybe this is why the movie meant so much to me at the time, too, because I had just come from working at the STD clinic for our research study for men who have sex with men.

And I thought, maybe I'll meet a boyfriend. Like, nobody wants to date the guy that has chlamydia literature in the same way that the doctor doesn't want to date the lady who he saw her insides. This is what a lifetime of watching movies, though, does to you is it really does make you think, like a romantic encounter could result from literally any social... That's true. A car accident? Maybe I'm about to get laid. Exactly.

I'm on the escalator next to somebody? Like, okay. Yeah. Yes. And then she has that moment towards the end where she asks the other doctor, like, where's doctor, whatever? And she's like, oh, he's home with his wife. And she just goes, what an asshole.

through her like oxygen mask or whatever. Yes. Very impressive. Yes. And then she can't get any help from the nursing staff when she's, you know, falls off the hospital day. Yeah. Because they think she doesn't need help because she's just there for cosmetic.

You know, cosmetic surgery, even though it's this huge complication that happens. Well, she's in her little like white glove suite or whatever with like everything's like pink and paisley. and I did like where she was yelling out. She's like, just because I'm a liposuction patient, doesn't mean I don't need care. And it's like, she's right about that. Closing out this quartet is Annie, played by Raven Goodwin, who I should point out, while we're on the subject

of pointing out 30 rock guest stars on this podcast, was in the 30 rock episode where Liz Lemon thinks she sat on the plane next to Oprah, and it turns out it was just this young girl, and that was Raven Goodwin. A phenomenal episode. She's working all the time. Good for her, man. Good for her.

She's so intriguing in this movie. Playing a very, a not as easily sort of like encapsulated character as you might think, which I love. Like, she's not to be, she's not like sassy, funny or whatever. She's not to be pitied.

She's not sort of like, you know, oh, poor thing. She's a little, like, she's a little spiky. She's a little, you know, obstinate in certain ways. And sometimes she's just, like, does not communicate with her sisters at all, where they're just, like, trying to say stuff to her. And she's just, like, not even registering. But she, like, very much loves Brenda Bledhen and, like, is, like, very concerned about her at all times. And she's also sort of like very curious about like all these things that all these women are telling her all the time. Like, like, Catherine Keener's always sort of like telling her some wild thing or other about like, this is the way the world is.

And then she has this big sister relationship with Angeny Alice Taylor's character who is like the only sort of black woman in her life who is also sort of telling her things about like, oh, this is how, you know, we take. care of your hair and like you should know that like you have it harder than anyone else in your family because you are black and they're not and she like Annie doesn't really have a huge understanding of herself as a black girl so she had you know this this relationship is really interesting and then by the end of the movie anjnu alice taylor's character is like i can't be this girl needs sort of different than what I am here to provide and also like there are also other kids out there

who don't have a mom and two adult sisters who can also you know care for her or whatever so it's an interesting like a very holo-of-center I did it again because I'm trying it was the holo center of the film exactly it felt like a very holocaustre

trope of someone who says something or does something or stands up for themselves in a way that is not very movie friendly but it is closer to real life or how people maybe should behave in their real life, but that she can say,

this is not my responsibility. Whereas in like movie language or like audience expectation, you know, that character is supposed to be like all heartwarming and like gives graciously to the this child, she has no responsibility towards, you know, that she can actually stand up for herself

and say, no, you actually need to raise your sister yourself. Yeah, it's a really interesting scene, I think. Also, when I'm going to rename the Kennedy Center, the Hall of Center, Hall of Center, Hall of Center, and really just like wreak havoc with everybody's pronunciations. It's like, that's where they do that Abba hologram show, too. Yes. Sorry, Jeff. Just the idea that Annie, like, I think what's so great about this film is, like, you see,

you see this sort of negative things that these people do, but you understand the sort of wound that causes them to do the, like, even, like, obviously statutory rape is not something I'm going to defend. But, like, you don't, she's, you don't look at her and be like, oh, what a monster. How could you possibly do that? You're like, I get how you went there. And same with like, like, Annie.

I was like feeling such sympathy for her that she wanted to pretend to be drowned in the pool. And the fact that it made people angry, I thought was like really. Yeah. Like I understood why they would get scared and be angry. But then like instead of saying like, when you did that, it scared me. Because these are just humans, they're like, don't do that. Don't do that again. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And then it just causes all these, you know, it compounds the injury. Yeah. Even for. Or with like the case with Michelle just being like, yeah, she does that. And her friends like, are you sure? Like, this has been going on for quite a while. And she's like, she just wants attention.

Annie. Annie. It's really like, again, very, very honest seeming relationships. where it doesn't always make you feel great. But then it then allows you to have that scene that they both have at the McDonald's at the end. Where Michelle starts it in this very kind of like, because sometimes she just talks to Annie as if Annie is like her adult sister.

Or therapist. Or therapist. She's like unloading. So she starts this conversation by saying this thing about just like, do you ever wonder about like the things we inherit from our parents? And I'm imagining Annie being like, what, like, what are you talking about? But then she, but then she actually, like, brings it down to this kid's level where she's just like, you know, like, you're obviously, she's like, you're obviously mom's daughter. And just talking about, like, you know, the things you pick up from, you know, living with this woman.

But she's just like, you have, you know, your genes come from this other family and we don't really know. And like, you could be, you know, any of these other. sort of wonderful, different things. And she clarifies, she's like, better than us. And then she says the thing, because then Annie's just like, well, all I know about my mom is that she was a crackhead. And Michelle says this really lovely thing. She's just like, yeah, that's true, but she was probably other things.

And then she says maybe she was a really good, or no, Annie says maybe she was a really good swimmer, right? And then Michelle just goes, yeah, exactly. It's just like finally somebody is like understanding what Michelle is bringing to the table. But they finally have that moment of connection that you can see where like they fit together as sisters. And it's a really, really lovely scene that takes place over a giant pile of McDonald's food. Can I tell you that era of McDonald's packaging? I thought that too, Chris.

And the McDonald's fonts? The weird purple sort of like background, like, not my fave, not my fave. The square box for the pies. Yep. Square box for the pies. But also, like, it's not like Michelle, like, everything that she says is still, it makes sense to her character. Like, she's, like, they haven't just, like, given her. Right.

Some sort of new thing. And then, like, when they go back and they're staying at their mom's house. house and she's sitting on the couch with her daughter and her and Annie and she's like doing the same thing like making them watch TV but also just like inserting herself like she knows better about whatever this she's yelling at the TV yeah yeah he does the same thing like it just is so consistent it's like such an incredible character that you just really understand that woman yeah I really love it um I suppose going into like the the the eyes of, you know, why this had Oscar buzz.

I think clearly going into this, Keener's coming off of the Oscar nomination for Malcovic in 1999. What does she have in between that and lovely and amazing? Give me a second. I should have brought this up already. Being John Malcovich, nothing. This is her next movie. Okay.

Well, there we go then. So, like, even more so then, this had quite a bit of anticipation in front of it. At this point, Nicole Hollifson really is only known for walking and talking, which at that point is still probably seen as like a cult movie, you know, at best. I basically saw it because I was watching HBO in the afternoon, and I caught Anne Hache, who I knew from Soaps. So I was like, I got to watch this movie, Anne Hach's, and they, of course, loved it. but Keener had already been an independent spirit award nominee for Tom DeSillo's Johnny Swade which was the movie he made with Brad Pitt that then inspired him to make the movie Living in Oblivion because it was such a tough experience

trying to direct Brad Pitt which Catherine Keener is so good in living in oblivion as well and then Brenda Bledhen is already a two-time Oscar nominee as Chris you mentioned So Mortimer is sort of the discovery in this. I imagine she had been in like English things before this, but this is the first time I had really made note of her in anything, I think. It's pretty bird bones. Yeah. I think this might have been the first time that I'd ever seen her in anything.

I do love Emily Mortimer when we do get her a good role. She's doing like screenwriting and directing now, which is really cool. I'm excited to see whatever her debut will be. I would have already seen her in Scream 3. True. I had forgotten about that, that she's in Scream 3 as one of the, right? She's one of the actors. She's again playing an actress, one of the actors on the movie that they're filming in that movie.

She's not playing the Sidney Stanton, is she? She might be. For Stab. Honestly. For Stab. Yes. Stab 3. I think they're making Stab 3 in that, directed by whatever, Scott Foley's character. Because it's her, it's Jenny McCarthy, right? Matt Kiesler and... Parker Posey.

Parker Posey, of course, is playing the Gordon-Cocs character. Parker Posey's so good in that movie. Good Lord. In that movie that I generally don't, as a person who likes the old Scream movies, do not care for Scream 3. I do like Scream 3. She's also in Elizabeth, speaking of the Oscar films of 1998, playing Kat Ashley, who is, I guess he... She feels like someone who has done a lot of period work. Yeah, I think she's like a lady in waiting to Queen Elizabeth or something in that movie. But yeah, she's really lovely in this.

Poor Brenda Bledhen, though, conceivably second place both times. she was nominated. Oh, you think so for Little Voice? I always thought Kathy Bates was like running a good second place to Judy Dunch that year. That's very possible too.

Little Voice was also like heavily campaigned on Jane Horrocks too who didn't ultimately get nominated. Yeah. I never saw that. I think that's a mean little movie. Who did she lose to?

That thinks it's cute. That was the year Judy Dench won for Fixier in Love. And then she lost Secrets and Lies to Francis McDormon for Fargo. Yeah, definitely I feel like more likely that she was second place, probably her or Kristen Scott Thomas, for the English patient that year. Yeah, I remember Kathy Bates for primary colors. I feel like she won one of the precursors or whatever, and I was really, really into that performance. I really loved Kathy Bates in that movie, so I was really hoping that she would win. Now I recently watched Shakespeare in Love and I'm like, shit, like, Judy Dench really does sort of like mow it down in those two brief scenes she's in.

She really is incredible. People always say that where they're like, she was barely in it. But it's like, yeah, but if she's barely in it and you remember her, is she really in it? Yeah. Yes, yes, totally. Absolutely. And then, like I said, this is sort of like the big sort of, like, the big sort of. of like a year that Jake Gyllen Hall is really sort of getting into a whole bunch of different

projects. This is a movie full of Independent Spirit Award faves, which is why it's not surprising that this ends up getting six full Independent Spirit Award nominations, including Best Feature and Best Director for Nicole Hollif Center, which is pretty awesome. This is the year of Far from Heaven, so like it kind of didn't stand a chance. but it's an interesting set of nominees. The director nominees that year at the Indy Spirits were Todd Haynes for Far from Heaven, Nicole Hollifsonor for Lovely and Amazing.

Bernard Rose, like the guy who directed Candyman, the original Candyman and various other things, directed a movie called Ivan's Ecstasy, XTC, which I've never seen, but the title has always sort of stuck in my memory because it's such an odd title. But it's a Danny Houston movie where he stars as like a film agent based on a Tolstoy novel. Sure. Hey, why not? They made indie movies were awesome back then. They would make an indie about like basically anything.

Is he smoking a cigarette or is he smoking crack on this poster? Plausibly either. It's a plausibly either one. Watch the movie. They show up to the art house, not knowing what you're going to see. and it's like, do we go see lovely and amazing? Or do we go see

Danny Houston smoking crack? This reminds me so much of, I remember when I worked, I worked there when the Aronofsky movie Pye was up. Sure. Yes. Sure. Yeah.

And people constantly came up and be like, I'll do a ticket for PI. Private Investigator. It's got to be a great crime thriller, right? Yeah, exactly. Black and white New York? Like, yeah, I'm totally here. Yeah.

The cast, the support. and cast for Ivan's Ecstasy includes Peter Weller, aka Robocop, Tiffany Thesson, from 90210 and Saved by the Bell, Valeria Galino, our fave Italian actress from Rain Man and Hot Shots and whatnot. And, wait, there was one more. Oh, Victoria Silvestet, who I remember just from being, like, I think she was like a Charlie's Angels, like, or not, Victoria's Secret Angel, Charles. A Victoria's Secret model or whatever.

Movies were crazy back then. And then the other directing nominee that year was Gus Van Sant for Jerry, the movie where Matt Damon and Casey Affleck get lost in the desert that I remember really liking. I still have to catch up to it.

I remember not liking it, but I don't remember why. I mean, it's pretty like slow and it's just sort of like it's sort of like defiantly slow it's very slow and talky and it's just like are they ever going to get out of the desert and I'm pretty sure by the end like they don't so it's one of those movies I'm obsessed with Tiffany Feeson being in that movie right right this because it was post show girls so but I guess maybe she thought no but I'll know how to choose I'll take it I'll get it I'll figure it out yeah I'll do a supporting not a lead and then right exactly and then it didn't work out there either female lead, too. Keener's nominated and Best Female Lead Against Julianne Moore for Far From Heaven, Jennifer Aniston for The Good Girl,

Maggie Gillenhall for Secretary. So like Jake Gyllenhaal is kind of like hovering around this entire category. Maggie Jill and Hal for Secretary. And then Parker Posey for the Rebecca Miller movie, Personal Velocity, colon, three portraits. Love Rebecca Miller. You too.

I can't. I loved personal velocity. I mean, Parker Posey, is in the pocket at this point in her career in terms of like indie film um this is also the movie where fruza balk has that like intense bob yeah i can't remember whether it's like an actively a wig or not but um actively a wig i can't remember whether it's like i mean it's our hair but it's in an active wig are we talking right it's in an active wig situation in one battle after another has nothing

on Parker Posey in personal... Or Fruzabalk in personal velocity. Very true. Very true. What was the third woman? It was... Kira Sedgwick. Oh, yeah. The third portrait in Personal Velocity Three Portraits. I mean, that is just like

my type of movie. Just like... They truly are not making movies like that anymore where it's just like three women doing different things. We're just going to let them act the fucking pants off of each other. Yep, yep. Bring it back. Absolutely.

And then Emily Mortimer wins Best Supporting Female Over Viola Davis in Antoine Fisher, which was still, this is the same year that Viola Davis is also in Solaris, and in Far From Heaven. So this was sort of, by this point, she had been in a bunch of theater work and probably won a Tony Award by now, I think,

for King Headley Yes First one Yes And then But this was definitely Like the year that helped her Springboard into later

Like Like doubt would be the one That would really Obviously Get her into the movies From real And when it's doubt That's kind of far from here

Isn't it? It's 08 Oh 7? Years after this Oh 8 Yeah Yeah Other nominees

Were Julianne Nickelson From a movie called Tully Not that Tully an earlier Tully. And an actress named Jacqueline Kim from a movie called Charlotte Sometimes,

and I am not familiar with either one of those things, but that is rad. Do you want to hear my Julianne Nicholson story? Yes, please. This is just my thing, I guess, on this podcast. No, I love it. Let me tell you about my brushes with semi-celebrity. Well, she handed you your Emmy for people.

She did, and I got the Emmy, and I was walking off the stage, and I just turned to her and I go, I loved Janet Planet. And she goes, okay. Funny as conceivable answer, because that movie is incredible. Oh, my God. Again, a movie with, like, all these incredible female roles that I want to see. Yep. And then Juliette Lewis is nominated for hysterical blindness, which as far as I remember, was a directly an HBO movie. But I think because it had probably played Sundance or something that like that qualified it for. Was Uma Thurman in that too? She was, in fact. Jenna Rowlands. Umma Thurman, Jenna Rowlands, Juliette Lewis and Ben Gazzara. Um, Mirrah Nayir directed that one. Where was Zoron, Dernard? the filming of that film.

How crazy was it when you found out who his mom was? I literally, it's one of those things. What? I sent it to a different group chat, not the one I'm on with Chris, but a different one. And I'm like, Mirren Nair is his mom,

and somebody in the chat was like, we went through this like six weeks ago. And I'm like, I literally fully like, I'm re-experiencing it new as it for the first time because that's how my brain works. But it was so fantastical that I guess my brain couldn't hold onto it one time. It had to get that information twice. But now I'm just imagining him just sort of like running underfoot during all of these,

like when she's making Vanity Fair, when she's making monsoon wedding or whatever. So I'm now wondering if like Uma Thurman and Juliette Lewis have stories of like Lil Zoron running around while they're trying to like get in character for hysterical blindness where they're just like, we're from Long Island. It's Long Island in that movie, right? It was in New Jersey. It's Bayonne, New Jersey. I'm so sorry.

Wow. I remember liking that movie. Do not remember the set of it. Six of one. I remember liking it, too, actually. It was nice to see Uma Thurman get, like, a real role, because that sort of, like, post-pulp-fiction period for her, I felt like it was sometimes a struggle to get good roles for her. But anyway, I historically love the Independent Spirit Awards, and this was a...

really good era. I went to them and speaking of walking and talking, it was the year of Tar. Oh, sure. And everything everywhere all at once. And I was like, this is just the Oscars now. Like, these are all the same.

Chris and I were talking about this. Just in a tent. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yes. We were talking about the 2013 indie spirits because we were talking about what movie, Chris? Short term 12.

Right. literally yesterday. And that was year especially, like, all of the winners there were just the Oscar winners. And it's just like, I do like it when the indie spirits make a concerted effort to sort of step outside of there. Wait, in what capacity were you at the Independent Spirit Awards for 2022? They started doing nominees for television for the first season of the television show. That's right. Yes, for debut shows. Bridget and I were nominated.

But who won Abbott Elementary won? And the bear. Classic, classic independent television. Famous indie television production company Disney. Well, that's what I remember, like, no offense to you and Bridget obviously were the nominees. But I remember when they started doing TV awards. And I'm like, independent television doesn't really exist because, like, if you're on television,

you are, you know, getting distributed through something, unless you are literally just like going up on, like, public access TV or something. or something like that over the air. Well, and I feel like nothing's independent. If you're promoting like reservation dogs or even somebody somewhere, you know, like shows that like when they started out, people were not watching them, you know?

Or like that, deli boys or or sort of, you know, where it's like they are almost indie. But I agree where it's like, television is different. Yeah, it should be. Television's a different animal. Are you, are either of you in the TCA's?

I probably. No. should be, but I am not. I don't, like, I don't really, I'm not a critic. I've never really worked in the capacity as a critic. We're trying, every once in a while, I feel like I should make a push to get into, um, a broadcast film critics association, which also still not a critic, but like most of the people in that are also not critics.

Right, right. They're just sort of like people who work in, in film journalism. They have a very short window of, like, the period that they let people in to. The only critics association that I am involved in. Well, I'm in a Western New York's critics group, but I'm also in the gay and lesbian critics association. Chris and I are both in that. I want an award from you all.

Well, you're welcome. I'm positive. I voted for you. It all comes together. It's for ensemble. It was for ensemble. Well, you're a good ensemble. Wait, is that the Dorian Awards or is that the...

That's the Dorian Awards. Oh, okay. I was just nominated. Sorry. Well, well, well, We tried. Trust and believe Joe and I tried. Listen, just getting nominated.

It all worked out okay. What else did I want to bring up about lovely and amazing, though? That's supporting actress here, because Emily Mortimer, you could reasonably say was in the conversation for supporting actress that year. That was the year that Catherine Zeta Jones won for Chicago. I mean, but because she's... I got to stand by that win. Oh, so good. But because she is kind of a co-lead in that movie.

For sure. She was nominated in lead at the Golden Globes, so there ended up being an extra open spot there. So, like, Cameron Diaz. You can make a case for Emily Morton also being a co-lead of this movie. Emily Mortimer? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, totally.

But, like, so Cameron Diaz and Susan Sarandon are nominated at the Golden Globes. Cameron Diaz for Gangs of New York. Susan Sarandon for Igby goes down. Tony Colette gets a number. Yeah, right? Like, remember that movie. I do. I remember that big white loft. Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, totally.

Apartment cinema. Totally. And now that movie, if you look back on it now, stars two Oscar winners and like a multi-emmy winner in Claire Daines. Like, that's pretty cool. Tony Colette is a BAFTA nominee for About a Boy. I love her in that movie. Really think she's fantastic.

Tony Colette only ever getting nominated that one time for the sixth sense feels like something that should be corrected. There was a lot of talk around Hereditary too, right? That she might be. Yes. But then they were like, now it's a horror or whatever. I think, yes, I think now that like Amy Madigan's winning, you know, an Oscar for weapons, you can look back at Hereditary and be like, you could have done that for Tony Collette too. Like, that would have been worthy. Michelle Pfeiffer and White Oliander was nominated for the Screen Actors Guild Award that year. I do love Michelle Pfeiffer playing a mean and heartless mother.

Like, who was I talking about that movie with? I was on a different podcast. And we were talking about movies that, like, you primarily remember for the, like, the TV spots that were on so often. and... Cheryl Crow was in the trailer for that movie. Yes.

Because I was on... Right, I was on the supporting actresses podcast talking about a movie called Moonlight and Valentino that had starred Whoopi Goldberg and Elizabeth Perkins and Kathleen Turner, but also John Bon Jovi. And so the TV spots in the trailers really worked overtime to make sure that you knew

that John Bon Jovi is like the hot guy in this trailer. And for whatever reason, somebody... One of the... I want to give the two... I think it was Dane had mentioned White O'Leander. And I'm like, oh, yeah, like that trailer, like, I embedded in my mind is gothed out Alison Loman being like, this is the price, mother, the price of belonging to you.

And it's just an incredible line reading from a trailer. That was also during, Chris and I have talked about this before, the era of, like, Apple movie trailers where it was, YouTube hadn't really become a thing yet. And so you would just go to the Apple website, and they had a section that was just like trailers, and you could stream movie trailers from their site. And I would do that at my job constantly. Just like spend hours and hours watching. This is why, like, the trailer for adaptation, the trailer for the hours, the trailer for Chicago are all like, all the movies from like 02 are emblazoned in the brain. Where were you working?

I was working at the college library of the, of my office. I graduated. I didn't really have any job prospects. And so I had been working there as like a whatever like campus job, you know, work, whatever like not quite work study, but like that kind of thing, right? And I was like, do you have any part-time jobs I could take? And so I was working nights and weekends as the like circulation desk supervisor at my college library. You can you can Google all you want during that. And I sure did. I was fully like a secretary and I was still doing it.

You give folks like us a computer to sit in front of and you can't see what we're doing. And the internet was still like, I mean this really dates us, but it was still new. It was. It was so exciting. It was like one of the very few places to watch streaming video back in the was on the Apple website because the technology was still pretty much that new. And so that's where I watched all my trailers. Yeah, you could only, at that point, you would have to see trailers in the theater,

or you would have to be lucky enough to catch whenever E was doing just movie trailer. E's coming attractions, posted by Todd Newton, which I watched constantly. Absolutely. Yeah. I was trying to tell, I took my nephew to see Toy Story 5 again, the other day. And he was talking about, because we had seen it already, and so he was like, there's so many previews. There's so many commercials, as you said, there's so many commercials in front of it. And I'm like, and so I'm trying to sort of explain to him, I'm like, when I was younger,

I used to love watching the commercials because you really couldn't see them anywhere else. Because, like, he knows that like every time we fire up Disney Plus, he would watch the trailer for Toy Story 5, like, he could just watch that at random. And I'm like, this was the only place I could see what movies were coming out. And he's like, barely paying attention. He's just like, sure old, sure old timer, like, let's get you back to... Well, how old is he?

He's five. Yeah. He's five. So, yeah, he shouldn't be riveted by that conversation. But I'm literally... This is doing my part to, you know, inform the youngsters. But yes.

To close the book on the sporting actress piece of the conversation, Emily Mortimer largely discussed in a prominent full-frontal nude scene also nominated in that lineup Kathy Bates for About Schmidt That's right Prominent full-frontal nude scene And was called Brave about 12 different ways that Oscar season 1200s for June so yeah yeah

And a good 11,000 of those are all condescending and rude Yeah probably well just brave at all is kind of rude Yeah yeah So brave to be in that body. Emily Mortimer, also fantastic third-year-rock star. I guess I'm just going to keep bringing this up throughout this episode. I know. Emily Mortimer as Jack Donagie's fiancé with avian bone syndrome is one of my favorite little runners in that.

The still of her lying down in bed like this and saying careful my bones is one of my My faves. Any sort of closing thoughts, lingering thoughts on the movie? I know I took some notes. Let me pull these out. But Chris, Jeff, any other sort of lingering thoughts on lovely and amazing? I mean, just the basic thought of whenever we can get the next Nicole Hall of Center movie, it cannot come soon enough. Again, when we're living in this moment where it's so hard for people to, you know, get financing and get things made. She's just the type of filmmaker who she's had enough movies now that it should, like, be proof enough that she can deliver something great, that it should be easier for someone like her to get movies made. Yeah, we'll be thrilled whenever we get the next one. And hopefully it will be starring one, Mr. Jeff Hiller.

Absolutely. I'm fine with just a supporting. Also, I think what I love about her films is that her protagonists age, along with her. So now it's like, it's not only a woman's point of view, but it's a woman, you know,

over 50's point of view. Or it's like, you know, like that scene where J. Louis Dreyfus is sitting her kid away to college and, which one is? Oh,

and enough sad. Yeah. Like, yes. Like, oh, that's only something you can write about when you've done it.

You know what I mean? And act when you've done it, too. It was just so beautiful and powerful. And I want more of that. I want 60s and 70s and 80s women. Absolutely. The scene,

early on where Emily Mortimer is in a photo shoot where she's got that sort of like sheer top where, you know, her breasts are exposed and whatnot. And you've got the photographer off camera being, you know, rude about it and sort of been like, you know, I thought you liked this fashion designer and all the sorts of. And it made me think of like, is there any profession that has a more sort of like wide span of virtue to vice than photographer in a movie where you are either, like the scum of the earth sort of like awful predatory person, you are a like hero among lower mortals as a like war photographer sort of like whatever. Or it is a signifier of your sort of like secret soulfulness, whereas just like somebody like takes photos as a hobby and like,

you know, it really is how they express their like Vibby and Meyer show. Exactly. Or you are Grizzled positivity monster of customer service experience like Zoe Winters in the drama. Okay, that was an amazing one of my favorite performances this year,

Zoe Winters in the drama. So great. Yeah, so funny. What was the one Julia Roberts played in that Mike Nichols film Closer, sure. Closer. That's how she decided

whose husband to sleep with was taking photographs for portraits, yes. Oh, yeah, that whole, like, that gallery showing or whatever, where, like, Natalie Portman's going through and just being like, you can tell she lies to herself and whatever. Fuck, yeah. Fuck, yeah. No, closer wasn't O2.

Closer was 04. Still a movie, I remember watching the trailer for that on Apple trailers, just to close that loop. Okay. So, Chris, why don't you explain for our listeners what the IMDB game is? Okay, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game, where we challenge each other with an actor or actress to try to guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for.

If any of those titles are television, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. If that's not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. And that is the IMD-B game. We love our free. Fries for all. The plural of free for all, I'm going to say is freeze for all.

For all is free. Anyway, so Jeff, as our guest, we are going to give you the option to choose whether you want to give your clue to Chris or me. And whether you want to give that clue first in the round robin or give your clue last and guess first. Oh, I want to guess first. Okay. Who would you like to guess from?

Me or Chris? Chris. All right. Okay. So Chris will give to you. I don't know why I'm saying that. I think it's because you do the game for Vulture or whatever, but it's like you're way, you're just as hard.

Okay. You have nothing to fear. You have nothing to follow, me, Jeff. I'm not going into this with ego. I know I'm going to lose. Okay. Go ahead. All right, Chris, you give to Jeff.

Jeff will give to me, and then I will give to Chris. Okay. Okay. So one Nicole Hollif Center project we didn't talk about because she was originally supposed to direct, and then ultimately her script was revised and directed by Mariel Heller. That's Can You Ever Forgive Me? The original casting choice for Lee Israel when it was going to still be a Nicole Hall of Center film is Julianne Moore.

So for you, I have selected Julianne Moore. Interesting. Okay. By the way, I heard that the original casting choice for that Aubrey Plaza movie, My Old Ass, was Melissa McCarthy. Anyway. Interesting. Fascinating. Okay.

Julianne Moore. And they're all four films, right? Yes. Okay. Far from heaven? Correct. Okay. Still Alice, just because she won an Oscar board?

Incorrect. Not still. That makes sense. Is it something weird, but it's like, it's like when they're in a Marvel movie. So it's like something weird like Hannibal, is that one? No, Hannibal is incorrect. So you're going to get your years. Okay.

You get 1997, 1999, and 2010. Okay, 1999 is, oh, it's Magnolia and Boogie Knights. Magnolia and Boogie Knights. And then 2000, so just the 2010 is not. is she in in 2010 She's not nominated for this movie Some multiple people are

Oh okay And it's a best picture nominee Oh okay Oh no the hours is 2001 And she was nominated Oh 2010 This is when I was on Broadway I didn't see a lot

This is enough How's that for flex Oh, I don't know this year so well. One time. I've been on Broadway one time. Okay, give me another hint because I don't know. It's another female writer-director who we are desperate to get another movie from. Who is?

She is a co-lead of this movie along with another actress who was nominated. Oh, the writer-director is a co-lead of this? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's Julianne-Mor. There's a co-lead with the woman who was nominated. Okay. And it's, okay. Well, that Tilda Swinton movie was way too soon, and that was obviously Almond afar.

Oh, God, I have no idea. This is a comedy, an intergenerational comedy, a marriage comedy. Oh. Oh, it's a marriage comedy. intergenerational featuring perhaps iconic sing-alongs to Joni Mitchell songs Oh my God, the kids are all right

I love that that's what did it Okay, fantastic By the way, Lisa Cholidico I would love to work with you Absolutely I just saw a re-screening of high art And it was so good I forgot how great it was

Patricia Clarkson in that movie is Patricia Clarkson is Next level She is so good at that movie With that red lip and that heroin sheik Oh god Yeah yeah Yeah

Fantastic Please tell us you've seen Allie Sheetie's Independent Spirit Award acceptance speech For high art I have not Oh if you have it Jeff I'm sending it to you

Once we're done here It's something else You have to like block out I'm not joking Like a half hour of your day Because doesn't she go on For like 15 minutes She goes on for like

For I think like 8 to 12 minutes Yeah it's a long It's an incredible speech It involves people coming onto and off of the stage from backstage, like Queen Latifah gets involved It's the whole thing. Oh my God.

You will love it. You will absolutely love. I will. I will watch it like this though because I do get a high cringe factor. I really do. You know how like sometimes people do like PowerPoint presentation like, you know, whatever, just like goof off events or whatever. This is like I would give my like fake TED talk about the Allie Sheetian.

That should be your obsessed, you know, like when you do like They have all these like my obsessed or whatever. My Roman Empire is that. Yeah, exactly. Yes. All right. Awesome. Well, well done, Jeff.

All right. So now you will give somebody for me to guess. Okay. So Clark Gregg was in this movie. Indeed. And his wife is Jennifer Gray. So I've chosen Jennifer Gray. Or maybe was.

I don't know if they're still married. I think they are still married. I think that's right. Any television? or is this four movies? Four movies. Okay, Dirty Dancing. Yes. Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Yes. Okay. You're good. Those were the two that I watched a lot when I was a kid. Oh, she was in something recently. I love that the third thing that I think of is the TV show, It's Like You Know, which was a supposedly like a Seinfeld-esque show, but in Los Angeles. And one whole episode that was just watching a car chase happening?

Yes, I remember that. Yes, because like, this is what we do in Los Angeles. We watch car chases. This is our snow day. Yes, and that was after her plastic surgery. And the whole joke was that she was playing herself. Yeah. She was playing Jennifer Gray, but nobody knew that she was that Jennifer Gray because she didn't

look like herself. I read her book, too. It was good. Oh, fantastic. Also on that show, my so-called Life's A.J. Langer, who was my pre-teen, like, crush object on my so-called life where I was like, those were the girls who I had crushes on. It was just like

they were the girls who I secretly was like, oh, I want to be a cool girl. Like, I want to be that cool. Okay, so Jennifer Gray, you get dirty dancing, you get Ferris Bueller. Oh, she was just recently in Oh.

Yes, this is... What the fuck is that movie? You've got it. You've got it. this is what you know how it's like I have been I have a hard time coming up with very recent titles um but the Kieran Culkin wins an Oscar for this movie right um famously directed by oh it's um a real pain yes yes okay I would never have gotten that by the way my brain would not have commuted that um thank god I remember that I would have been so embarrassed I spent like a year talking about that movie's Oscar chances? Okay.

Is she in like War Games or one of those movies? Is it War Games? It's not War Games. No. Is she in... I'm trying to think of like another 80s movie

that she would have been in in like the ensemble. Is she in like... Oh, this is tough. I feel like she's in another Matthew Broderick movie, which is why I guessed War Games. No, right, War Games is the one where he's on the computer playing like... That's Jamie Gertz. Is she in Red Dawn?

Yes! And that's the fourth one. Yes, awesome. I cannot believe you got that. That's so impressive. I knew it was another one of those, like, because also, like, famously, didn't she, like, super not get along with Patrick Swayze, and it was because of their experiences making Red Dawn, I think. A lot of people did not get along with Patrick Swayze, unfortunately. Although

Whoopi Goldberg famously did. Um, okay, excellent. I'm, I'm, I'm somewhat proud of myself. That was a good pick though, Jeff. All right. That's fun. Chris, for you, I, uh, went down the Jake Gyllen Hall Path. I am particularly excited for his upcoming film with director M. Knight-Shammelon that is listed here as, oh, right, remain. It is scheduled for 2027. One of the stars of that movie is somebody, I know who you really like. I'm hoping you won't find this to be too difficult. I hope we don't have another Kathleen Shelfon situation on our hand. That one is hard. I could do a Broadway top four.

Chris put the brakes on that immediately and I was like, fine. I'll take somebody else. I normally never chicken out, but I chickened out on that one. How do you feel about Julie Haggerty? Oh, okay. Julie Haggerty, let's go. What about Bob? No, surprisingly no.

Wow, okay. So I should have just, I love Julie Haggerty. It's probably wrong, but I'll say marriage story. There's got to be something. Okay. There has to be something recent on there. There usually is. Okay.

Airplane. Yes. Which is what I should have said first. Airplane two. Yes. This is the hard one. Oh my God. You've arrived at the hard one.

It's so hard. It's so hard. I'm just looking up and it's so hard. If I can give Chris one with three easy ones and one really hard one, I don't feel bad about that. I may just burn it off to get my year. Because that'll at least tell me what ballpark I'm in. What other... No, what about Bob is a little wild.

It is a little wild. She's so funny in that movie. I feel like it has to be something in the 70s. She's... No, she was in something else semi-recently. around the time of marriage story. God, she's so good at marriage story. Her and Merritt Weaver

just like burning the house down with that scene. What do I even want to say? Isn't she with Steve Martin in something? That has the ring of truth to it. I'll just, I'll just, I'll make sense. something up and just say like L.A. story. Which definitely she might not even be in. No, but you know what? I don't think she is, but that's a really, that's an astute guess. No,

incorrect. Okay. So your year for your missing movie is 2001. See what we mean? Okay. 2001 comedies. It's, um, it's a pretty infamous comedy. I, uh, it has, rat race? No. It has, it has, it's cadre of support. in a way that, like, I'm surprised there weren't, like, retrospectives on this movie when it was, because it was a spring release, so it was, I'm surprised there weren't people, like, on, like, The Ringer or something being, like, the 25th anniversary of X movie, like, the oral history of how this movie goes. Oh, is it, like, old school? No, but it is a comedy. And it's, I'm guessing it's for boys if it's, it is for boys.

By saying The Ringer. But it's less, it has less of a legacy than that. Like the creative force behind it doesn't really make... Oh, no, I know what it is. I should have known this. It's Freddy Got Fingered. It is Freddy Got Fingered. She's the mom and Freddie Got Fingered.

I don't remember anything about that movie. So good for you. I should have known that. I should have known that way faster. Okay. Well, well, well done. Congratulations. That's a solid, that is a solid performance on Julie Haggerty, who I thought was

going to be very, very tough. So well done. I can't believe Lost in America wasn't on there, but I guess it's not that. Yeah. That's true. That's another one, along with what about Bob? Yeah, for sure. Well, well done all around, everybody. Jeff Hiller, once again, a dream come true having you on this podcast. Never did I imagine when I was enthusing about John Quincy Adams on the Broadway stage that I would have you on a podcast. Folks out there, if you are an Emmy voter cast that ballot for Jeff in pluribus. He's so good in that episode playing a member of the hive mind

who shows up in a bike messenger uniform or... Give me an award just for doing that. That's what I should get to be a word for. Just for that. That's my Emily Mortimer moment. Vote for Ray Sehorne as well. She's phenomenal. Do vote for Ray Sehorne. Who's not going to vote for Ray Seahorn?

She's going to win it. Anything else you want to plug? You want to tell people about. any productions or the upcoming stuff. You can get my book. I have a book. Yes. Please. Tell the listeners about this.

It's called actress of a certain age, my 20-year trail to overnight success. And I'd love it if anyone read it. Can't recommend it highly-recommend the audiobook version, too. Oh, I haven't listened to that. I should listen to that. Fantastic. Well, we thank you once again. This was great.

Chris, oh, I should do our regular. little outro. That is our episode listeners. If you want more this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this head, oscarbuzz.com. Also, our Instagram at this had Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find more of you? Letterbox and Blue Sky, Chris V File. That's F.E.I.L. I'm on Letterbox to Blue Sky as well at Joe Reed, read spelled R EID. I am also at Vulture, doing Cinemate tricks. We're ramping up the movie Fantasy League to do another launch. I am covering the Emmys exhaustively. all that wonderful stuff.

We would like to thank as well Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Taylor Cole for our theme music, Dave Gonzalez, and Gavin Muvius for our technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get podcasts.

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but we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Excuse me, while we're waiting to take off, we're going to go ahead and begin our in-flight entertainment, which is the feature film, Legend of the Guardians, the Owls of Gahoole, and some NBC sitcoms that didn't make the schedule. We have to find the Guardians, Eglin.