This Had Oscar Buzz - 406 – Arsenic and Old Lace (with Emily St. James!)

Episode Date: September 28, 2026

We have writer Emily St. James back with us this week, so naturally we’re breaking our own record for oldest film discussed on the show (after her episode on Moby Dick)! Based on the Broadway smash comedy, Arsenic and Old Lacewas Frank Capra’s intentional return to comedy after a string of serious movies. Starring Cary Grant as the critic nephew of two aging sisters, the farce unfolds as the aunts reveal they have been offing unmarried travelers and a brother who now looks like Boris Karloff returns to the family. Since the adaptation rights stipulated the film could not open until the Broadway run ended, the film sat on a shelf and was not released until Capra was overseas documenting the war. This episode, we talk about Emily’s new book (with Lauren Theisen) about It’s a Wonderful Life titled Every Time a Bell Rings and the effect of WWII on Capra. We also talk about the Broadway run that actually starred Karloff, Grant’s nomination in the same year for None But The Lonely Heart, and face guy Peter Lorre. Topics also include The Best Years of Our Lives, high school theatre, and queer coding.

What's up, Gary's. Just a quick announcement up top of the episode here that Vultures Movies Fantasy League is back again for its sixth season. And we are once again having a mini league for listeners and fans of this head Oscar buzz. If you haven't played before, you can head over to vulture.com slash movies dash league to get the full details, including a look at the rad prizes you could win, including a 65-inch Roku TV, PlayStation 5, merch from A24, neon and criterion, and much more. The gist of the game, if you haven't played before, it's like fantasy football, but for movies. You draft an eight-film roster from the movies of 2006, and then once we get to October 2nd, your selections can start accruing points from their box office earnings, from their awards performance, critical performance, etc. We even have a new category this season for

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I didn't get that. I'm from Canada water. Dick Pooh. You can't bother. Men just don't get into window season, die. No, dear. He's died. Oh, wait a minute.

Fuck all this. Now look, darling, how did he die? Oh, Mortimer, don't be so inquisitive. The gentleman died because he drank some wine with poison in it. Well, how did the poison get in the wine? Well, we put it in wine because it's less noticeable. When it's in tea, it has a distinct odor. Hello and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast,

The Only Podcasts, Receiving Copy edits from Patricia Clarkson. Every week on this head Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we're here to perform the autopsy. I am your host, Chris Fyle, and I'm here, as always with my brother, whose Karloff looks maxing, Joe Reed. Truly the very first Frankenstein maugger in cultural history was in this movie. Credit to Raymond Massey. Also credit to Boris Karloff, who played the role on the stage. We'll get into it, but was not released from the stage in order to make the movie.

We'll get into it. More important details, we have a returning guest this episode. The Great Emily St. James is back. Hurrah! Hello. I love being here, and I love doing old movies. I love like just going back in time. I love that this is the niche that we have landed.

it on. I do too because if anybody else asked to do it, I would probably tell them no. And I would stay in your lane. This is Emily's Lane. We did have you on for In Good Company, which was a lot of fun. But your first episode with us was Mobe Dick, which was like an experiment for us. And now I'm happy to be back to the lab experimenting again with Arsenic and Old Lace and Capra. I just want to keep going until we get to train pulling into stations. Yeah, exactly. That's the whole thing that made Oscar happen. They saw that train and they said, you know, we really got to give this thing some type of prize. What could we come up? We need to throw something at it so it won't run us over. Throw something in its path.

Yeah, exactly. No, this was fun. I had never seen this movie before. And I've always, it's always sort of one of those movies that is very good for a joke. It's always good, you know, blank and old blank, you know, something like that, arsenic and old blank. Anytime you have two kooky older ladies, it's always fun to imagine casting them in a production of arsenic and old lace. I did make a joke one time about how I wanted to see a production of arsenic and old lace starting Felicia Rashad and Demi Allen, and then it like happened. I mean.

So, perfect. It's the way to do it. But we have you here on a momentous occasion to talk Capra the week that your Capra book with Lauren Tyson comes out. Emily, tell us about your new book. Well, it's called Every Time a Bell rings. And as you can imagine from the title, it's sort of a deep dive into its wonderful life, just from as many different aspects as we could think of. I wrote like a 30-page chapter on Frank Capra, which I watched every Frank Capra movie for that exists. there's some that are lost.

And like, it was a lot of fun doing a really deep dive into this movie. That's one of my favorites ever. And I'm really looking forward to not watching It's a Wonderful Life in 2027. It's such a good movie. It's one of those. I remember when I was growing up, there was, it was in a period where there was saturation because it was it had been, it was essentially, if not public domain, that like the rights to it were. sort of spread out. It was on television a lot through the Christmas season. And so I think it became something that people sort of made fun of and it became very much like not a cool thing. And then

as I got older, I think respect for it crept back in and I think people sort of started going against this sense that it was this very sort of square Christmas movie. And I was going to say Gen X dunking on It's a Wonderful Life sounds correct. Very, yes, it makes sense. And then also as I got older, I also had the patience to like watch the whole thing because like that was definitely a movie where if you caught it on TV and you had watched the parts from like the, you know, where Clarence, you know, bodily enters the movie, you know, through through the end of the movie. That's one thing. But like you're missing so much good stuff. Like so much of the good stuff in that movie is packed into that first hour or so.

It's also not as long of a movie as people sometimes think. I think sometimes people give the sense that it's this like, you know, five-hour movie or whatever. It's not brief, but it's like it won't take all day. There's also a decent amount of non-Christmas stuff in the movie that people never discuss. I'm always tickled by what football uniforms used to look like. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real leatherheads kind of stuff.

Oh, yeah. It's also one of those movies that if you watch it later, you realize how many different Simpsons jokes were made from it, which I also really appreciate. That is very Gen X-Coded. Appreciating It's a Wonderful Life through the lens of the Simpsons is very Gen X-coded. I went back and, like, read a bunch of reviews of it from, like, the 70s and 80s when it was, like, entering just, like, cultural mainstens. stay status. And so many of them are cranky. And so many of them are like, nobody would come together to like to help someone. They barely know. And or this, this bill, this rich man is just portrayed as just pure evil with no redeeming qualities. What's that all about? And like, that has aged well,

I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Evil rich man. And just randomly throwing money at people you don't know in distress. Yeah. Mr. Potter has reflected quite well throughout modern culture. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you say you don't want to watch it until 2027. I don't think, given the cultural mainstay, you will have much choice

but to watch it in some form this year. We're doing two screenings of it in December in New York and L.A. Yes. So I will be watching it at both of those.

And then I'm like, probably going to try and take a year off. But it will, it's always playing somewhere. It is. Yes. I've never seen it on the big screen, though. Maybe I'll have to try to come down as a crowd. Yeah. That would be a lot of fun. And I'm sure it would come in a different kind of stereo of everyone crying around you. Yeah. Recently, NBC has taken to showing it once early in Christmas season and then again on Christmas Eve. And so for a while there, it would be the movie that my family and I, after we would sort of leave. my aunt and uncle's house for like Christmas Eve, you know, with the, with my dad's side of the family, we'd come home and do like, you know, the traditional sort of like one present apiece, you know, on Christmas Eve and we'd all settle down. And then whoever wanted to stay downstairs would just sort of watch, it's a wonderful life, whatever was left of it on television. So. Yeah. Yeah. And for your purposes, it was nominated for five Oscars. One, none of them, but it did win a special technical award. And there's a chapter of this in the book for its invention of a new technique for fake snow, which we use to this day. It is the...

No kidding. Yeah. It's a wonderful life. Visual effects Oscar winner. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. On one level, that's very impressive for It's a Wonderful Life and the technical achievement.

On another level, it's like, Hollywood's really never moved beyond the 1940s for snow. They perfected it back then. They perfected it, and the only other version now is you might do CGI snow. But for the most part, it's like just dropping this specific kind of foam that interacts with a specific fan in a way that looks just like snow. Just looks just like snow? That's okay. I love it.

I love it. The Oscar situation for It's a Wonderful Life, which I think shocks people sometimes, especially like the movie's biggest fans when you tell them that it, you know, is a best picture loser. I always pair it with the best years of our lives, which is one of my favorite movies, because that's Capra and Weiler making their movies after they were, you know, serving in World War II. So it's very easy to link those movies together.

And best years of our lives, obviously more explicitly deals with the war. Yeah. And that's usually a case for me to tell people to go watch Best Years of Our Lives. I adore Best Years of Our Lives. It's the rare case where like an esteemed classic lost and it's not like a dances with Wolves thing. Yeah. You're like, well, you have to.

Like, Best Years of Our Lives really holds up. You see why it won. I think I can see why it's a wonderful life has endured in a way. Best Years of Our Lives is now a bit more of a curio. But like they're both fantastic films. You should watch both of them. I watched all the best picture nominees from that year. Oh, nice.

They're the standouts, let's say. Yes. What do you have to say about Wilson? Or is, wait, no, Wilson is the year we're talking about it. Is the year of arsenic and old lace. A Woodrow Wilson biopic won five Oscars. If people look at, you know, bad biopics now and think that this is some type of trend. No, we've always been doing this shit.

It's true. True. Yeah, it's a wonderful life Oscar. That, I imagine, is one of your top two, maybe three, ask an average person on the street and ask them whether this movie won Best Picture at the Oscars. Or like, name five movies that won Best Picture at the Oscars before 1960 or whatever. And they'd say Citizen Kane. They'd say, It's a Wonderful Life. They'd say The Wizard of Oz and then maybe like Casablanca. They would say Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. That's not even like a knock on them. That's just sort of like that's the way that history has, you know, that America's cultural history is shaken out. It's, uh, we'll talk a lot about Capra's history of the Oscars because he was, he was, like perhaps the industry's first Oscar obsessive. Like, it's one of the things I find most endearing about him. But in his autobiography, he writes about the night when it's a wonderful life got blanked in favor of best years of our lives, as though it's a wonderful life was a very close second, which in no way it was. was.

Like, best years of our lives ran the table back here. It's his version of Spielberg's like, they gave it to Fellini. It's just, Frank Capra, like, they gave it to Wiler. Before we get chained, you would have loved this head Oscar buzz. Frank Capra, come back to us and come on this head Oscar buzz. We're going to have a medium come on and they're going to channel Frank Capra. And that will be our final episode of Robes Hernandez. What movie would you want, Frank Capra?

to talk. Oh, man. Of stuff we haven't done before. I'd want him to talk shit about one of his contemporaries. Oh, well, that's true. I'm just thinking, what's the dumbest movie to have Frank Capra talk about that we could fit into our parameters is sort of, is where I'm at. Like, we would, we have Frank Capra on to do, I don't know. What's the dumbest one we have in our arsenal, Chris?

Something that's ripping him off entirely. This is where I leave you. Frank Capra on our episode for this is where I leave you. There we go. I do want to ask you before we get too far into it because you said you watched all of the Capra's that are available because, of course, some of those are very old and have been lost.

But what outside of the known ones, is there one that you could recommend? Because especially after it's a wonderful life, a lot of those don't really hit, you know, and those are lesser-known movies. It's Wonderful Life isn't a huge flop in the way it's sometimes portrayed as, but it barely makes back its budget. It has certainly recouped it many times over in the years since.

But at the time, it was a disappointment, especially compared to best years of our lives. And after that, basically all the movies he makes post Wonderful Life, his career is just kind of over. Like, the movies he makes are not very good. There's one called State of the Union with Kepern and Tracy that is fun. But then the others are all bad. I would say the one that I was most surprised by is I think it's from 1932.

It's called American Madness. It's kind of a dry run for its wonderful life in many ways. It's about a banker who is working at a bank that has a run. It's got some just genuinely, like, really terrifying depictions of what it must have been like to be in the depths of the Great Depression. I really loved that one. Really, I would say, just there's this great box set from Columbia. called Capra at Columbia. And just kind of everything he made in the early 30s leading up to it happened one night is like worth watching for one reason or another.

And there's some real gems in there. Platinum Blonde is another one. I really liked him. And The Miracle Worker, he was like really good at melodrama. And that kind of fell away from him as he became known more for comedy. He's also very good at comedy. So it worked out. But I do think if you watch It's a Wonderful Life and see that like mellow dramatic quality, especially in the first half of that movie, going back to things like American Madness or The Miracle Worker or so on are really going to like help you see how that sort of solidified.

That's a good trivia question. Who was the final actor to get an Oscar nomination for a Frank Kappa movie? and it's Peter Falk for Pocket Full of Miracles. Yeah, that's right. Forget I said that if I use that in a trivia quiz. Pocket Full of Miracles is a truly dire film. Is it really? That's too bad.

The talent there is, I mean, you got Betty Davis and... Part of it is, it's a remake of his first best picture nominee, Lady for a Day. And Lady for a Day is much better. And if you're watching all of the Frank Capra movies in one month, as I did, like the quality disparity becomes incredibly obvious. But yeah, it is very much he cannot figure out how to speak to America post-World War II. And that really is a hit to his confidence. That's a fascinating through line, though, throughout his career.

I think also the through-line of melodrama and comedy makes so much sense because they're, they, the thing about melodrama and obviously comedy is like comedy is set up punchline, set up punchline, and melodrama react, melodrama plays out in very similar ways of like set up reward, set up reward, but it's a more emotional reward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like one other, you know, especially early in his career in the silent era, he was just like trying everything.

Like he made three, I guess you'd call them disaster movies. that are called derigible submarine and flight. And they're all just about like, what if you were involved in this mode of transportation? And then, like, you got in dire straits. Like, dirigible is about two men fighting over the same woman. And then one of them pilots are dirigible to the South Pole.

Oh. And crash is there. And the other guy has to, like, take his dirigible to go get that. It's, uh, and then the woman just threats. What I wouldn't have given for John Frankenheimer to have remade dirigible. I was going to say, the capra movie we need to be remaking is obviously dirigible. Yeah, 100%. That's like, Damien Chazel would crush a digital remake. Oh, my God. Yeah. I was thinking it would be part of the Ambuoy Alliance franchise.

No, keep Michael Bay far away from any kind of... Michael Bay is derogible. I'd watch Jan de Bonn's original, dirigible, though. I bet that would be... I think... It'd be a much faster derigible than you're used to, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, They would be really moving, but other than that. I think Michael Bay is dirigible with the R.I. capitalized, and it takes place in Providence Road. Exactly. Now we're cooking. Now we're cooking. This is good. Arsenic and old lace, though. Arsenic and old lace.

In my opinion. Very funny movie. Very funny. I've never actually seen the play in any form. So, like, this was entirely neat to me. Oh, your high school didn't do it. I was going to say... No, my high school didn't do drama until, like, our senior year. So I only... My high school only ever did one play while I was actually there.

It was damn Yankees. It does feel like there's something, as if our country ever funded the arts. But it does feel like, you know, to get your public school funding, there is some small print somewhere that says once every decade, the high school must put on arsenic and old lace. It's a really good... It fits really well for high school because it's like it's about murder and... you know, sort of all of these sort of dark themes, but it is in no way actively provocative or like dangerous or like something you'd get in trouble for putting on with high schoolers or something like that.

A lot of schools, I know, put on like a fall play and a spring music. Yeah, yes. And the Halloween trappings of arsenic and old plays always make it like an attractive fall play. Yeah. Because it's spooky without ever being scary. Yeah. It's just like out of macaw that atmosphere. Yeah.

My younger sister, after I was already in college and after my younger sister, who went to the girl school that was sort of affiliated with the high school that I went to, so they would combine. And once they got the drama program rebooted, it was the opposite of that. It was a spring play and a fall musical. But so she did like all of those. So I got to see her in like the sting. And so, like, the musicals, as one might imagine, were really well attended.

So those were put on in the big sort of like auditorium, which was essentially like also the gymnasium because my high school was very small and meagerly funded. But the plays were a lot less well attended. So they would just be held in like the great room upstairs. And so at the top floor of the high school. So it would just be in this much, much smaller. little setting, but they did, like, stand and deliver and the sting, and I can't remember. And then the musicals were, like, Godspell and Annie Get Your Gun and, you know, the usual high school fair, sound of music.

Yeah. This is also, like, when you look at classic plays, so few of them have roles for the random kid who tried out. Yeah. And, like, Arsnikin' Old Lace is an enormous cast, and you can just, like, be a little bit like, I guess you're going to play like a driver and you're going to be there and hand someone their suitcases. Yeah. Like there's

room for every single freshman who tries out for the school play. You're the cop waiting outside the house and you show up like twice. Yeah. The other the cabby, not the cop, but yeah. Like gimmick that most productions will reproduce because the original

Broadway production did this is during curtain call at the very end of curtain call, the basement door opens and all of the dead bodies come out and take about. Oh, that's cute. I like that. Guess who was one of those dead bodies in high school? Really? Congratulations. Freshman me. Ah, did you each have numbers and you, do you remember what number?

No, but I'm sure I would have given myself the most, um, angsty, I am unique and special number. That number is seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm imagining like some 14 year old who gets cast as Jonathan, and there's all these jokes about him looking like Boris Karloff and like how, like, whatever high school is pulling that off, you know. The physical humor in this movie, I will say, is really fantastic and really, really is almost like breaking the fourth wall in a lot of ways. Obviously, the Boris Karloff stuff, and I imagine if Karloff had actually played, you know, the role. But, like, Peter Lorry sort of like playing a lot of. on his own sort of image as a guy who looks like Peter Lorry is really funny.

As I sent to you, Chris, last night, Carrie Grant is fully ass up at some point, at one point in the movie, and has trousers that are leaving nothing to the imagination. Not a thing. Paint it on, no. Painted on woolens. Yeah. And then like the aunts are obviously like this very, you know,

incredibly stereotypical sort of like spinster spinster ladies who and the Brooklyn of it all is so funny to me because I'm trying to like parse out what what Brooklyn jokes are being made and like what was the like the conception of Brooklyn because obviously the very beginning you have the like brawl at Ebbitt's field or whatever where they're at the the Brooklyn Dodgers game the opening you know table. setting caption, this is a Halloween tale of Brooklyn where anything can happen. And it usually does. And usually does. And laughed out loud. And then the snarky little one where after they show the clip of the brawl at the baseball field, they're like back in Manhattan in the civilized world or what the hell. And it's just like, okay, folks. Like, I guess Brooklyn was just like the reputation for just being an uncouth little refuge for Cretans or something like that.

Except for this one house, which was very respected. Yeah. It's a beautiful home full of murder. Yeah. Entirely justified murder, too. Every word out of, like, Josephine Hull's mouth is so funny to me. I know. Because it is this, you know, very broad characterization of nice old lady, but it just almost ring true to, like, you know, science deniers now of how everything is just so clear.

justified. And I am a good person and I have all of these ideas of just how they're murdering these men because they have no connections or, you know, it's a kindness to kill off these people, basically because the old ladies are bored. Well, and reading about the play, that's sort of the intention, right? This idea that it's this metaphor for, you know, a country that was, you know, putting on this air of being like this gleaming, you know, the city on the hill before it was defined as touched by Reagan, while also like the bodies in the basement are just piling up and piling up. And it's all perfectly justified. And nobody's, so long as, you know, nobody admits that anything is a miss, then nothing is a miss. There's an early line where, I think,

I don't remember who says it precisely, but they say that the Brewster family scalped the Indians as opposed to the reverse, which is like kind of a key as to how this movie's thinking about, because that's like far more honest about what happens to indigenous people. Right. And it is cloaked as comedy, but this movie is like weirdly honest about American bloodlust. And so at the end, it's also funny, you know. It's incredibly funny. And then at the end, when Mortimer Brewster discovers that he's not actually a Brewster,

I'm trying to think of like, what's the equivalent of that? It's just like he's finding out that he's actually, like, Canadian doesn't really fit because, like, the Canadians were also really bad on that front. But maybe he discovers that he's, you know, a native of Finland or something like that. He's a Finnish national. I think, I think Ireland. I think Ireland would be the way to go, you know. Yeah. They've mostly been picked on.

Yes. Yes. On the hierarchy of colonizer versus colonized, you can claim Irish heritage and you're all right. Mortimer Brewster, what a great name. What a great fake character name. Uh-huh. Yep. Absolutely.

Almost as good as Carrie Grant's real name, Archibald Leach, which sounds, somebody whose fake name sounds realer than his real name is one of the great mysteries of Carrie Grant's life. Do we have a recording of him saying his birth name Archibald Leach? I don't know. I feel like I just need to hear those syllables come out of his mouth. In his slight sort of speech impediment delivery kind of a thing. I love Curry Grant's voice. It's so incredibly distinctive. Yeah.

You see, he's like I watch a lot of screwball. And he's so good at those rhythms. And I think one thing that that struck me watching this movie for, I think it's probably the second time ever. I watched it last year when I was going through all the Capra's, obviously, is how big Looney Tunes energy it has. And I think some of that's the stage play. But Capra was famously Bugs Bunny Shoes on a carrot because of I believe Clark Gable. And it happened when he used a cigar or something or a cigarette. And there is a thing that Capra was very good at capturing

where you get the sense he's like less emotionally involved in the film, but he's very good at this sort of thing, which is capturing the chaos of a stage production, making it feel cinematic, and then also just kind of getting out of the way. He just kind of plays traffic cop and lets these people run all over the stage. But like watching this movie, you don't really feel like you're watching a film stage.

play. And similarly, you can't take it with you. One of the two movies you went best picture for is very much like that. And you always feel like, oh, I'm watching a movie. I'm not watching an attempt to just do a stage play on screen. Yeah. Which is, I think, unique for the time, because I think this idea of, you know, adapting from the stage and people are just like, oh, it's just people talking. It feels like I'm watching a play. That is not. common for the older adaptations of stage works, I would argue. Yeah. I do think there is something to the idea that like, okay, if you're making a movie of the

film of the play doubt, to name a movie I think is fine, but nothing great. You know, it is, it is not, Broadway is not culturally relevant at that point in time in the way it was in 1940. Right. So like the arsenic and old lace movie, if you. You are someone living in, like, Portland, Oregon. Like, this is, like, your way to see this hugely buzzed thing. Yeah.

And to a certain extent, it needs to hold up to that. We're kind of circling back to that with the, the, um, pro shot, uh, thing that is, like, slowly coming back into theaters. But this was, you know, when you, when you look at, like, the big mega musicals of the 50s and 60s, so many of them are like, well, I wasn't able to see Oklahoma in New York. But now it's on the screen in front of me. Yeah. And it's awful. But. But it's in.

Poor Gloria Graham. Yeah. So bad. But it's in Cinerama. It's true. Oh, boy. Oh, it's a wonderful life fame. Gloria Graham.

Good for her. So, yes, very, very much so. It's a wonderful life fame. Violet Bick. One of, I almost said, like, Violet Bick, innocent, even though the movie doesn't really. demonize her so much. She has that bad last moment where she leads the group of people laughing at George for acting like such a

foolish person who wants to, you know, whatever, run away. Yeah. The movie, the movie Violabic is like, she's treated like a hussy. Yeah. But you're also like, but it also is like, but she's fine. Yeah, right, right. She's a beloved hussy. She's the town's beloved the thing with arsenic and old lace, right, is that it was, it was ready to be a movie a couple years before it actually came out, but contractually, they weren't allowed to release it as a film until the Broadway run was finished. And it was such a smash hit that it ran for like years.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody had expected, very few plays had ever run that long. Yeah. Nobody, like, expected it to run that long, but it was, like, one thing that happens in the early 40s is so many young men leaving for World War II are going through New York. And they, like, the last night in town or whatever, they want to see a show. And so, like, some of these shows that got good reputations, like Oklahoma was the main beneficiary because you could see that and be like, this is what we're fighting for.

Yeah. Like, those were boosted by this audience of transplants. of tourists, in effect, who were seeing a thing that, you know, was going to be like their last memento before they went off. And, like, in certain ways,

it didn't directly invent the go to New York and see a show tourism market, but it, like, establishes it as a, like, uniquely American thing. Yeah. And so Arsenic and Old Lace was a beneficiary of that. Interestingly, Capra was when Pearl Harbor happened, capra had told the army,

like, a year, before war broke out. Listen, if we get into a war, I'm there for you. I'm going to help you out. I'm going to do you a solid. And then on Pearl Harbor, he was making this movie and the Army calls him and it's like, we need you. And he says, can I finish arsenic and old lay? So he spent, I think, like a month working on it. And then he went off to join the Army and became like the head of this like, in effect, Army PR and this war docks are all wonderful. They're worth seeking out and watching. They're all on YouTube because they're in the public domain. But yeah, like he, this is a movie that he was like working on as war was breaking out around the world.

And he wanted to do this movie, too, to my understanding, because it was so silly and because it was kind of antithetical to the serious stuff he was working on. So he makes this incredibly silly movie before going and doing the most serious work of his career. Yeah. Yeah, he's like, he is someone who really ably alternated those modes. He, you know, you can't take it with you is immediately followed by Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Right. And meet John Doe, which are like both, I mean, they're inspirational movies, but they're very much like, these are important films about the American people. And then he would be like, I want to go do a chaos gremlin movie.

And that would turn into something like this. So I think, yeah, it's so apt that this was like the. last movie he made before he went off and won World War II for the Allies. Well, I do think that's like especially interesting because obviously given that like growing up as we didn't, you sort of like you learn so much about World War II. You, you know, it is one of the, one of if not like the most like prominent subjects of American history that you learn about in school. It's so culturally important. It's, you know, it's, you. You know, it's, you know, probably the most filmed, you know, the event in the world that has the most sort of like movies made about it and that kind of a thing.

You just imagine, and it was World War II, like you just imagine that the world stopped for all of this time. And that is enhanced by this notion that, like, Hollywood mobilized, right? Like they sent all of these filmmakers to make movies and like actors enlisted in the army. And it really did, you know, women played baseball and went into the factories and like every, you know, it was all hands on deck everywhere. And then you look at the list of like they're just like iconic movies were being made this whole time, like amid all of this. And it's not even just stuff that like pertains specifically to the war, even though some of us or like to this like environment of. the war around it, but like the Philadelphia story is happening and the Maltese falcon is happening and the Magnificent Ambersons and Casablanca and, you know, a song of Bernadette and double

indemnity and all this sort of stuff going my way. Well, Mrs. Minervis, obviously, a war themed to movie. But like, it's just like that to me is fascinating to imagine something like our snick and old days, something that is just like purely silly, pure entertainment or whatever, happening while like the war still rages. You know what I mean? Like the V.E. they wouldn't come for another, you know, six months or so or something like that.

So really just, I don't know. This is maybe an obvious observation, but it just feels like it's interesting to place yourself in that kind of perspective because like really, you know, all this other stuff was still going on. It's also like one of the, probably the greatest era

for radio. Radio dramas, radio plays, like live music on radio. It is such a, I sort of really like enmeshed myself in that period when I was working on the book.

And I was fascinated by, for instance, Lionel Barrymore from It's a Wonderful Life, was campaigning against FDR in 1944. He was like, we've had enough of this guy. Wow. And it's fascinating to realize

because World War II was accepted as his when all of us were born. Yes. Settled history. You forget that it was not known what was going to happen as it was going on. That, like, people were actively still doing things, were still, like, having politics, whatever. And, like, 80 years from now, when people look back on this era, which is very tumultuous, they will see what happens at it, whatever, however this ends, they will see that as like, and that's how that result. Right.

It's so much scary it or live through it. Yeah. No, 100%. And you imagine all the, you know, the politics of you just like, you imagine the people who were making contingencies. You know what I mean? What if, you know, what if we can't stop the Nazis?

What if we have to, you know, retreat back to our borders or something like that? What if, God forbid, you know, I mean, like the nightmare scenario was always just this, like, man in the high castle thing of just like, all be speaking German and this kind of thing. But just like, you imagine there were people at making actual contingencies at the time of like, we might just have to like redraw the map of Europe and, you know, head back to the states, head back to, you know, across the ocean for a while. And but you're right, because it was settled history by the time where, you know, we're in school and we're growing up, it's just, you stop. That stuff gets filed away in a drawer and never opened again. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I'm glad the Nazis didn't win World War II. Yeah, me too. That's one of those things I'm happy about. I'm going to make that statement right now, in fact. So, yeah. I think that's something we can all agree on. I think that's something that we could be happy about. I think also, you know, you're talking about all of that,

what is to us history, but for a certain generation was contemporary. The presence of something like arsenic and old lace is another reason why we need comedies now. to name. Please give us a break. Yeah, absolutely. What is the arsenic and old lace of right now? Because I'll say, like, the funniest movie that I've seen this year is the invite, but, like, that's not really comparable to something like arsenic and old lace.

And, like, even if it's, there's serious allegory to arsenic and old lace, it's hard to argue that arsenic and old lace is in some way serious, you know, whereas you could be hard to be hard. Right. It's not heavy-handed in that way. It's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. I sort of think horror has taken comedy's place as the genre we go to to get away from things. So I think the arsenic and old days of 2026 is obsession. Yeah.

A movie I have a lot of problems with, but a movie that is filling that gap of like, this is a movie people can go see and they'll laugh a little bit however the top it is. They'll have emotional reactions and then straight people will argue about it on the way out of it. I'm like, that's a recipe for hit making that we've gotten away from. And then this year we were like, what if you made the straight people argue? $250 million. We've been so used to making the queer people argue. That's one of my reservations.

And I'm glad that you point that out that I'm like, that's your guys' business. That is nothing to do. It is their business. That is true. What are queer people arguing about right now? We're arguing about casting on heated rivalry for season two is. No, but actually that's also straight business. Because that's mostly straight women who are mad about that.

Yeah. No, I just am like, I think if the one wish willow existed, queer people would have a lot of takes on it. And we probably would not use it. We'd probably just be like, I mean, I would use it. I would use it. Yeah. But I would only use it for good. As a queer person, I know what's good all the time.

So. I imagine that like people are taking the one wish willows out to the club. And like they are using them and not remembering it. all what they wished for. And it's just chaos. The afters. The a afters are a mishmash of people being like, what did I wish for? But there's no cap.

There's no word count on the One Wish Willow. That's the, that's straight people's problem. That's that protagonist's problem. You use too few words for your one with Willow. Speaking of the Simpsons, you're doing the Homer Simpson like, I want a turkey sandwich. It would be a Fiona Apple album title. It would be, it would be 80 words. or more.

Like, yeah. No, I would do that thing from the box of just sort of just like I would like $10 million. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't be specific enough. I wouldn't throw in enough like provisos and caveatska. And then it would be like, here's your $10 million. You get it because you are responsible for bombing a major European city. And I'm just like, damn it. I think they should give obsession to Ira Sachs.

And I think he should make like the nightmare on Elm Street 2. It's just like super fucking gay in a way that like. In a way that nobody can deny. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The One Wish Willow for the Ira Sachs, Nightmare on Elm Street 2, Freddie Returns version,

is like he just asks for an eight pack. Oh, but he gets it in the worst way. It just happens in the absolute worst way. That's basically. thinner, right? That's the plot of I guess you're thinner. Yeah, yeah, exactly. RIP, Michael

Constantine. And we've done a full loop. Joe, before we get into the plot description, would you like to tell the listeners about our Patreon? Yeah, we have a Patreon. It's called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance, and we have quite an archive of episodes if you join right now. And

new ones, two new episodes every month. It only costs you $5 a month, which to me is a steal, two full-length extra episodes of This Had Oscar Buzz every single month. The first one drops on the first Friday of every month. We call it an exception episode. And that is an episode about a movie that we would have covered on regular This Had Oscar Buzz, but for the fact that despite its unrealized high Oscar expectations, it probably pulled out an Oscar nomination or two. So we can't talk about it on the flagship show, but we can talk about it on the Patreon. Movies like,

saving Mr. Banks, or perhaps Mary Queen of Scots, or perhaps Charlie Wilson's War. I'm trying to find all the titles that have proper names in them when Harry met Sally, Molly's Game. We've recently done episodes on movies like David O. Russell's Joy and The Black Dahlia, which I have now talked about on two podcasts, including one with Emily St. James. So both of you two fine, fine people I have discussed the Black Dahlia with in podcasts. So, so momentous. Recently, most recently, we've done an episode on Mike Lee's Happy Go Lucky, a movie that is really, really, really good. And a movie I'm really glad I saw a second time 10 years later when I was less hostile

to people with defiantly cheerful outlooks on life. Then, third Friday of every month, we get an episode that we're not. we call an excursion, which is not about a movie specifically, but about a type of or object in pop culture, movie culture, Oscar culture, award culture that we love, love to fixate on, whether it's old award shows like Independent Spirit Awards, perhaps a Golden Globe ceremony, perhaps an old Oscar ceremony. We'll talk about old Hollywood Reporter roundtables or category-specific deep dives like Best Original Song in the 1990s. Earlier this month, you got an episode on the 2000 MTV Movie Awards.

Is that right, Chris, earlier this month? Correct. All right. The 2000 MTV Movie Awards, the one where Sarah Jessica Parker, endures 13 costume changes and does a, according to Chris File, a heterocoded parody of The Matrix. So I thought it was a very good time. But you'll listen to Chris and I

good-naturedly disagree about that and other things. The Matrix parody is what happens if you have a heterosexual man, write an episode of Sex and the City. Join the Patreon, listen to the episode, and have an opinion, and see who you agree with. It'll be fun. Emily St. James, do you remember that particular M.T. Evening Movie Awards parody.

I think I do. I believe that I have watched. I believe that I have watched that Matrix parody because I saw it out so much. I have been going through just like random parodies of things I love. I watched the alias parody that Peter Falk is in recently. Wait, I didn't know about that. Yeah, which that's for me, I think, the 75th anniversary of ABC or something. Oh, wow.

But yeah. Yeah, I always, I always. always think of like the MTV movie awards as that like very brief snippet of time when Gen X felt like it was going to seize hold of the culture. Yes. And just like everything was going to be the Simpsons. And the MTV Movie Awards is like, but then, you know, the limitations of the, the Simpsons is my favorite show ever made. But the limitations of that perspective became straight, straight versions of the Matrix.

Obviously one of the most heterosexual movies ever made. But you also had, because it was cable. television, those things aired so many times. So it really did just get like drilled into your brain. So like, there are things I will never, ever, ever learn like credit default swaps, but I will absolutely remember the Brady Bunch parody of Basic Instinct and the Golden Girls parody of Clueless on the respective MTV Movie Awards that they were on. I will always remember Mike Myers as Jan DeBant in a Twister spoof that is supposed to be his follow-up to Twister, Hail. I had forgotten about that, but yes, now I do recall that.

See, the things we remember. Anyway, to sign up for This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance, for more digressions such as that, you can go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Arsonic and Old Lace, directed by Frank Capra, written by Julius J. and Philip G. Epstein, based on the play by Joseph Kesselring. Film stars Carrie Grant, Josephine Hall,

Gina Dair, Raymond Massey, Peter Lorry, Priscilla Lane, John Alexander, we will talk about John Alexander, Grant Mitchell and Jack Carson. It opened in New York City, September 1st, 1944. Does John Alexander make you want to charge into various rooms of your house? Is that what we're going to talk about? It's maybe Arsenic and Old Lace's stupidish joke, but it's my favorite. It is very stupid, but it's very funny every time it does it, yeah. I was watching this last night, And every time he would yell charge, like, my kid was sleeping the next room over. My wife is ailing from COVID. Oh, no. What the fuck are you watching?

It's so dumb. It's so dumb, but it's so funny. It's silly and stupid. Movies used to have jokes like our crazy brother thinks that he is the president or a president. What president would I be confused for? where they're just like, oh, it's the general who lives on the rooftop of the house next door or whatever. And it's just like, that's just like, that's what's going on in Maripa Pry's. Used to be a type that existed in the world.

The admirable. I think, I think you have big young Jimmy Carter energy. Oh, I appreciate that. I was going to probably say something not as nice about myself. Like my inability to verbally form a sentence aligns me to George W. Bush. Oh, stop. I do think it would be very hard to do it. charge-style gag about Jimmy Carter, though.

So that's going to really limit you. Not a fast mover. Yeah, there's a southern sort of lackadaisical energy to Jimmy Carter that's not going to be, I don't know, maybe Warren G. Harding was fond of a good front charge. Who knows? I think it's also notable that Raymond Massey plays the Boris Karloff look-alike in this movie while having just played Abraham Lincoln famously to. to, I believe, an Oscar nomination in, what was it, Young Mr. Lincoln or whatever, previous to this.

So really running the gravitas gamut, I think, there between, no, Abe Lincoln and Illinois, not Young Mr. Lincoln, Abe Lincoln and Illinois. And running the gamut between Abraham Lincoln and Boris Karloff, the first time they made that joke, I just absolutely guffawed. Because I had no sense of the history of the play or anything. so I had no idea. But I was like, wow, they really just like, clearly Karloff was an inspiration. And isn't I like writing my note down? I'm like, Boris Karloff. Like, I caught that.

And then the movie's like, he looks like Boris Karloff, like just straight out there in front. And that must have like absolutely killed in a stage production where it was actually him. Classic. Because the stage production was happening at the same time of, filming, they wouldn't release Boris Karloff from the show to do the movie. They released Josephine Hull, Gina Deere, and John Alexander. They were from Broadway. But they were afraid that if Boris Karloff wasn't in the show, that it would close.

Well, probably right that they kept him in then, because it did run so long. Who played the Carrie Grant role? Was it anybody notable? I looked it up and it's nobody I've ever heard of. He was like a big stage actor. at the time. Okay. All right. Cool. Emily, are you prepared to give 60-second plot description of arsenic and old lace? I am with the caveat that you can tell the plot of this movie in five seconds or five minutes, and there's kind of not a like concise motion between. But I will do my best.

All right. Then your 60-second plot description for Arsenic and Old Lace starts now. Mortimer Brewster, played by Carrie Grant, is a man who has just married the love of his life, Elaine, she lives next door to him. He's a guy who's always a spurned marriage, but he's met the right girl. He goes home to tell his elderly aunts about it. And while he's there, while he's sorting through all of this marital paperwork and basically getting ready to go on his honeymoon and all that good stuff, he discovers there is a body in the little seat that sits by the window seat. And he learns that his aunts have been killing, who have been killing, bachelors by luring them in and feeding them poison stew.

Then Jonathan Brewster shows up and he is someone who has also been killing people. And it turns out that there are a bunch of bodies buried in the basement. And the second half of the film becomes about keeping this information from the authorities and Elaine and a host of other people. And also there's a man who thinks he's Teddy Roosevelt. Anyway, at the end, Mortimer finds out he's not a Brewster and he's happy. The end. With two seconds to spare. Wow.

Well done. Okay, because we were joking about what gay obsession would be, I do. you think gay arsenic and old lace would be like circuit gays being like there's this new club in Brooklyn where these old ladies are killing people we have to go and the body is just like buried yeah there's a dark room downstairs you have to go down there yeah yeah the dark room downstairs that's where all the bodies are honey there are 13 men down there yeah uh it's love is strange the ira sex movie with yes love i adore that movie and alfred malina he should do the arsenic and old lace with those two

those characters. They're just killing people. Incredible. And I do think arsenic and old lace is a little queer-coded and not just because Carrie Grant is playing a bachelor. How many scenes is Carrie Grant like this close to some man's face in this movie? Like there's so much like gay blocking

in this movie, for real. And the last, the final big kiss where he's kissing his fucking life. And the cab driver's right there. And there's a man who comes in is like, you can also kiss me. Yes. I thought they were going to triple kiss, speaking of MTV in the 90s. Like, I really did think that was going to happen.

It's a really sexually fluid movie when you think about it. Yeah, tremendous, tremendous stuff. I did not remember that they were explicitly bachelors that they were killing. I thought that this was literally old ladies killing drifters. I think they were just, like, lonely, like, lonely old people who, like basically, like, had nothing else going on in their lives. and they're essentially just sort of like putting them down, which, listen, justice for bachelors of a certain age, because here I come, ladies.

Also, wait, wait, had it and lost it. That's fine. Oh, this movie, not the most sensitive about inherited mental illness, about family histories of mental. illness because there's a big one in the Brewster family. But you love a comedy where it's about a family and everyone's crazy. Like, that's a topic comedy. Well, yeah. I mean, that's, you know, that's the Friedman Theater on Broadway, right?

Like the Samuel Friedman Theater is programming stuff like that year round. New York Theater. New York Theater Workshop? What's the one who's always doing the, like, there's a dinner happening on the Upper East Side and a family is coming to air out there. grievances. Anyway, um, yes, the Brewsters.

Okay, so this movie starts and Carrie Grant and Priscilla Lane are in line at the whatever clerk, the, the, the, the, borough clerk in Brooklyn or whatever, to get their marriage license. And, or are they

just like getting married at City Hall or whatever? Like, they're just like, they're fully getting hitched. And he gets spotted by these two reporters. Well, he's basically in disguise. Yes. Well, this is what I wanted to bring up, was this notion of this, like, famous bachelor whose, you know, whose acquiescence to marriage would be big news, which feels very much the stuff of any number of old screwball comedies or, like, you know, the, you know, the.

Rock Hudson, you know, Doris Day-esque, you know, kind of stuff. Anything where it's just like, man, some people were, were so heterosexual that if they ever got married, it would ruin their reputation. Like, that is how, that is how strong their reputation was of being a womanizer around town. And yet, this is back when, like, people weren't promiscuous. So, like, I don't know what reputation. these men had, right? Because, like, I don't know. They were probably actually promiscuous.

Right, but it's not like people talked about that. You know what I mean? Like, so, so you had these, like, people who were, like, you know, famed bachelors. And yet, like, famed, you know, would, you know, had women all, all around them or whatever. And yet it's like, are we not talking about them? Like, what's, you know, what's happening? when these women? I don't know. It's, it's an interesting paradox in

mid-century culture. Who was the last version of that? Was it Warren Beatty? Yes. Like, yeah, I think it was. Like, Clooney sort of, I guess, fit that mold. And, like, because it was news when, like, a mall, like, you know, he settled down with a mall or whatever. But he didn't really have a ton of, like, high-profile tabloidy romances.

It was always just like, remember he'd like dated Stacey Keebler for a while? And like that was what passed for like a George Clooney romance. And he was another one of those people who was sort of like, you know, those bachelors who were beset by gay rumors and like, who knows, you know, what the truth of anything is. But I'd remember that being a bit of a story. But there's nobody really like that now.

You could maybe, like, I was thinking, what if Leonardo DiCaprio announced he was engaged tomorrow? And it just wouldn't be the same thing. You know, we just think, okay. That's okay. Good for that 17-year-old, you know, like. He gets shit for the, like, you know, won't date anybody over 29 thing. I think it's 26. And I think it's been proven true.

But, like, he had, who was his long-term, it was, was he with Giselle Bunchin before she went to Tom Brady? Was that the deal? Yes. Right? Which was a long time ago because she was with Tom Brady for a very long time. But yeah, I guess there's a little bit of that with DiCaprio. But again, like, the Bachelor part of it is just not fam-like. Warren Beatty was just like high-profile dating all of these people.

And you're just not getting that. Everybody wants to be as, you know, private as they can manage with that kind of thing. This is why it's all private sex party. now. George Clooney owns Lake Como now. So, yes, it's all private sex parties. It's also like, okay, so this guy in this film is famed, renowned

bachelor, and he's a theater critic. Yeah, that's... We're painting a picture here. They gave him the gayest job. Yeah. I can perhaps accept that within the extremely specific like New York society scene that people would really care, but it is

sort of treated as like, oh, finally somebody locked Mortimer Down, like this is a thing people have been thinking about a lot. Were I a Brooklyn prosecutor tasked with making the case for Carrie Grant, confirmed Bachelor, theater critic does not appear to want to marry this woman, makes her stay at the cottage across the yard during the bulk of this movie, won't respond when she- Keeping a literal cemetery between.

Keeping a cemetery between them won't respond when she whistles to have him join her. Kisses her like a crazy person, like does not seem to have an actual working knowledge of how to kiss her. And talks super up close, talk super up close with every man in this movie and presents his betrousered buttocks to all of the world to watch at one point. Yes, that scene stuck in my head. They should Here's who they should remake this with. They should remake it with Ethan Hawke and Margaret Qualley and Ethan Hawke should be playing Lorenz Hart.

That is the vibe. That is the vibe. And the whole time, like, you know, in this very 1940s way, it's very coded of the anxiety, like the, it's not just his reputation, but it's also like, so they're going to have sex. Right? And then it's like, ah, I don't want to be around you because we might have sex. Yeah. Right. The attraction is just too strong. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, then his brother comes to town. And Peter Lorry is also, like, wildly gay-cote. He's basically Lafou for the brother.

But also, like, in a very sort of like Peter Lorry kind of way. But also kind of like has this. heir to him of being this sort of just like wretched outcast of society. Why is he outcast from society, you may ask? Like, who knows? Perhaps he, you know, made a pass at the wrong man at one point. And the only person who would take him in is this murderous Frankenstein looking man with scars on his face and whatnot. But also he's the guy who made him look like Boris Karloff in the story, right? Like, that's the deal. It's like, he's the doctor. He's the, so he's sort of, he's, again, giving a man a makeover to a style that perhaps suits him. I'm just saying, like, there's a lot going on.

It's so elmodovar-coded. An outcast plastic surgeon. Arsenic and the skin I live in is, yes. Yeah, I love it. It's so funny, though. Peter Lorry, speaking of old cartoons and Bugs Bunny and whatnot, Peter Lorry forever was somebody for me who existed as the Warner Brothers like Hollywood cartoon of him. Those handful of Looney Tunes cartoons that didn't have any of the normal characters, the regular characters,

but it was just like an evening at the Copa Cabana or whatever. And it would just be like a scrolling screen of caricatures of all these Hollywood people. And of course, I'm watching this as a child in the next. 1980s. And so I know none of these people, absolutely none of these people. And so very much like Billy Joel's, we didn't start the fire, the rest of my life becomes a process of one by one acquiring the connections of like, that's who Clark Gable is. And that's who Catherine Hepburn is. And that, and there's still people in that, but like, that's Carmen Miranda, like, that whole kind of thing. And forever, I was like, I don't know who this guy, but like Edward G. Robinson or whatever,

like existed as just like the guy in that. But I was like, who was the guy with the bug eyes and the weird teeth or whatever? Because I'd never seen him in anything. And I can't remember, but it was like, I was well into adulthood before I finally saw Peter Laurie in something. And I was fully like DeCaprio pointing at the screen where I was just like, it's the guy. It's the guy from the looting shoes. I found him at last.

It's crazy. Now I need to find the one, the lady with who the joke in the cartoon is that she's got big feet and she like lights the match. on her, like, giant foot. And I'm like, I don't know who this notoriously big-footed actress back in the 30s was, but man, they were roasting her up and down. When you find her, will your life's work be done? Yes.

Then I'll, then I will go into the basement and lie down with the 13 other corpses, because then I will be done. I will be finished. I wonder what the equivalent of that is when we didn't start the fire. What's the, like, last thing, last lyric from that that I'm like, I'm still unfamiliar with. They'll have to pour through those lyrics and see. But very recently, I remember watching the death of Stalin.

And I was like, Malenkov. I was like, got one. It was great. Oh, my God. It was wonderful. We've been introducing our daughter to Looney Tunes. I thought you were going to say we can start the fire, but this is okay, too. Yeah, we just have been playing it over and over for her and expecting her to annotate it.

The one for me I'm still working on is LFO's summer girls. but to return to We've been watching You Looney Tunes with her And there's just so much shit in there That like at the time As a kid I would just laugh at it And then my daughter will be like

What's that? Why's that funny? And I'll be like, I don't actually know So I'm gonna look this up Right Unless it's like Wiley Coyote Falling off a cliff And I'm like well it's funny

When someone endures pain but doesn't die Right Then you know when she's like Well what's that You know why are we referencing that She doesn't say that Obviously she's three But I'll be like

Well, you see in the 1940s. There was this crooner named Frank Sinatra, and boy did the ladies swoon over that guy. That I remember, the chicken who was in love with the chicken who did the Frank Sinatra routine. Anyway, those are great. Those cartoons are great. I need to go see Coyote versus Acme. Yeah, I do need to see that. I've heard it's good.

Roadrunner was my chosen Looney Tune as a child. Nice. And to hear that Roadrunner does appear, I do feel like I need to indulge in that type of nostalgia. I've heard it's really good. I was going to see it yesterday, and then my wife got the COVID, so we delayed it for a couple days. I continue to test negative, lest anyone listening to this would be worry. Tiptoeing past the graveyard. I'm just, I'm doing great.

So like Carrie Grant's in Arsenic and Old Lace, I keep confronting horrors and just blithe. and just blithely wandering. As with everything with the COVID test, though, every time I take a COVID test and it's negative, and I'm like, but who would, how could we know? Because, like, they've stopped updating the tests. Like, there are endless variants of it that we probably don't know about because, like, nobody's pursuing anything anymore.

And it's just... Joe, I thought you were going to say that much like Carrie Grant, I am calling, you know, mental hospitals on my siblings. being like, take this person away. Man, they were really just like... He's very eager to send his brother away. On somebody else to say so, just hauling somebody out to the old nut house. Who would...

Yeah, I feel like this movie's treatment of mental health is like that one Game of Thrones previously on, where there's like just a close on Emilio Clark's face. There's a bunch of people talk about how she's insane. I think, like, it's... so endemic to this subgenre of like stage comedy of like the big crazy family yeah and i do kind of feel like arsenic and old lace is like the logical extent of that and you kind of can't go beyond it and so we continue like like the humans a play from a few years ago like wonderful play is kind of in that space but it's very much like and now we're taking the concerns seriously right and the like element

of it that's a little over the top is there's a ghost because again horror is what comedy used to be. Yes. So it's, yeah, I think this is kind of the logical conclusion of this subgenre of stage comedy. But they all are very much built atop. Here's a crazy person. Isn't that funny?

And this whole family's full of them. Yeah. But don't you want to see a movie about that? But like the aunts are obviously like, they're crazy in an incredibly high functioning and delightful way. Like, and in what we would call today. a bubble because they've rationalized themselves so far into this awful thing that they're doing that it has no basis in reason or reality.

Yeah. The scene that I absolutely, probably my favorite scene, and this was the scene that made me think of, man, they must have been absolutely losing their minds at this, in those theater audiences. is when Carrie Grant is talking to Peter Lorry about the like, whatever, the hypothetical like Patsy who's like, you know, and then the guy would be sneaking up behind him, but he wouldn't even know about it, like the, you know, the fool. What would he do? He would sit down in the chair and then he sits down in the chair and like that whole kind of thing.

And it's that level of just, um, surreality, you know, this is just like, at some point this is no longer taking place in like regular reality. It's taking place in cartoon reality. And that's how the two aunts exists too in this movie. It's just sort of like, you know, even like, even two lunatic murderers would probably not behave this way. But like, it's so, it's so perfect for this level of, yeah, like, comedy, surreality. That just, it works. It works so well.

It does feel like it would have, like, a round of, like, good for her discourse. Yeah. Oh. That was Chris's whole letterbox. Oh, yeah. Like, they did nothing wrong. Obviously, I'm joking. They were right.

They were right to kill those men. They were right to. You don't know what those men did. You didn't see those men's tweets. Two old ladies do some seriously psychopathic shit. Their gay nephew honestly work. Like, that's, that's. I just keep pitching random remakes of this, but I do think Ariaster would just would do a great job.

Yeah. Ariaster and his mother issues? Like, yeah, like 100%. All of the men, you would see their naked bodies throughout the house. They're standing at the periphery of the house. And you don't notice them right away. I do think Ariaster would probably do exactly gene. Like Carrie Grant.

It's so interesting to me that Carrie Grant was well outspoken about hating his own performance in this movie because I do think he's wonderful in it. It's one of my favorite performances of his. It's definitely top five. I love it. I think he's so funny. Yeah. You know, who didn't like it, you know, who hated it was Pauline Kale. Did you see the excerpt of Pauline Kale's review?

No. Obviously not contemporary with the movie. but on the Wikipedia page, the quote that they pull, it starts with Capra's Hick Jolity turns Grant into a manic eunuch. The villains, lurers who are less coothed in their methods than the innocently mad aunts are Peter Lorry as himself and Raymond Massey impersonating Boris Karloff.

Some people roar at their antics. Well, Pauline Gil, may she rest, wanted every movie to be fucking Last Tango in Paris. So she wants like, she wants Carrie Grant, like, you know. Yeah. I just, I should write a book called Pauline Kale in the case of the manic unit. It just feels right. I mean, she's not wrong, but it's also wonderful.

Only in, you know, her contemporary era would someone look at Mortimer Brewster and be like, eunuch? Yeah. Like, sexless eunuch. Like, there's obvious context here. But I still think it is interesting that Carrie Grant so vociferously hated his own performance here because I don't see it as that different or that different casting than some of his best performances. Like, how is this not in the same lane as bringing up baby? It's not. It's in a very simple because having just very recently.

saw at least parts of Bringing Up Baby because it was on TCM the other day. Bringing Up Babies about better and even funnier movie, but there's maybe no funnier movie than Bringing Up Baby. But the performance is very, very similar. The performances in those two movies, absolutely. No, you're 100% correct. I'm going through his sort of roles leading up to Arsenic and Old Place. And it's one of those things where it's just like, oh, man.

First of all, they just made so many movies. back then. And also, people were just in so many movies back then. Like, people were just like, Carrie Grants in like six movies a year, every year leading up to, to this. And I guess that's part of what can happen when you're all making movies all in the same lots and within like, you know, 25 square blocks of each other and whatever. Well, in this very year, he has one of his two acting nominations for None But the Lonely Heart. I brought up. that up before we started recording and basically the vibe between the three of us was whatever that is. I've never heard of this movie before.

No. Like genuinely. I feel like a real dumb dumb. It's a Clifford. Oh, okay. Carrie Grant. I've heard of the book. Yeah.

Okay. He's just one of those actors that we, that constantly get referenced for, you know, some of the great actors who never get Oscar nominated for their best work. Mm-hmm. Well, you look at, you. go back, you know, even just a few years before Arsonick and Old Lace. You mentioned bringing up baby, which is 1938. His Girl Friday, 1940. The Philadelphia Story, 1940.

Suspicion, 1941. And then shortly after Arsonic and Old Lace, Notorious is 1946, the Bishop's wife, 1947. I mean, to catch a thief, 1995, you're getting into, you know, sort of like the later stuff. Once you get Carrie Grant in color, it's a whole other situation. And it's just like so many of these movies are not things that I've seen, but like even just like the titles, the awful truth and, you know, Sylvia Scarlet and whatnot, all these movies. Sylvia Scarlet, queer. Is that really? I got to see that.

Oh, man. It's like one of the, yeah, one of the foundational. Kathleen Hepburn, right? Yes. Yeah. What was the, like, movie that launched him? Or is there a generally agreed upon, like, movie that made him a huge star? I'm looking up his Wikipedia page because that feels like it will tell me if it is.

Right? Yeah, because, like, isn't it kind of a slow build thing? I feel like so many of those actors back then, it was all slow, slow builds and stuff like that. You don't really, people didn't like drop like a bomb, you know, in the way that they maybe did

later on. This does, this does cite the awful truth, which is, I think, one of the great screwball comedies and was like kind of, as kind of his breakthrough.

And that was like a movie that was nominated for Oscars, although he was not. And so that I think is probably as good. But he like was working several years before he got the awful truth. So, yeah,

yeah, so the nomination was Penny Serenay in 1941. And like bringing a baby famously was a bomb when it was released. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Philadelphia story is, uh, that is Jimmy Stewart's Oscar?

Yes. Please forget this. Yeah. Yes. It's an extremely strange. Like, he's great in that movie and it's extremely strange that his Oscar is for that. Mm-hmm. Watching the three of them, though, Grant, Stewart, and Hepburn sort of

orbit each other in that movie is really like watching. I don't even know what the modern equivalent of it is. I guess for me it's the hours, right? But it's like if they were all in scenes together all the time. But like it's incredible. I do think like what holds arsenic and old lace back from being one of the true Carrie Grant classics. And I do think this movie is very fun and like one, like a really like very high up in

my ranking of his movies is one of my favorite subgenres of American film is Carrie Grant has finally met a woman who can help him repress his sexuality. Yeah. And she's a little bit gay, too. Yeah. Like that, that's just like, you know. This is like all those have burned. All those have burned.

Yeah. If they give me a sight and sound list, his girl Friday is on there because it's about two gay people who realize that they can perform heterosexuality under this one extremely specific circumstance. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I mean, yes, that's true.

Because he enters the movie already found, having found that one. woman, to the degree that he can't suppresses homosexuality in this movie. Yeah. It's also just like, as much as I love Priscilla Lane, as much as I think she's a lot of fun in this movie, she's a nothing part. And also, she's just kind of like, she doesn't have that energy of like being able to keep up with him in the way that a Hepburner, Rosal and Russell and Russell does. She's the only character in the whole thing, even the cops.

that doesn't have a joke. She doesn't get to have any fun. I do think that this loses some steam towards the end of the movie where it's like, this should wrap up much sooner than it does. I was surprised to see it was two full hours. I was like, this seems to me like the kind of thing that should be like a cool hour 40, you know, that kind of thing.

There's a thing that happens in Capra's career where he starts out making movies that tend to be 90 minutes or less. even it happened one night his huge breakthrough film is not a very long movie it's like about perfectly paced and then he gets essentially a blank check

and just like keeps making longer and longer films and like this movie's manic energy needs a more compact box because he tries to keep it going for the whole two hours and by the time you're at like 90 minutes you're like

calm down come on and it kind of keeps adding subplots and conflicts that we don't care about as much. And I think it's something to do with, it's a pretty faithful adaptation of the play. And when you're watching it on stage,

just the act of you are sitting and watching a static set and people are running in and out of it, like that is creating a different sort of set of connections in your brain to a movie where you're constantly cutting around. Like, when you are watching a stage play, it's so stationary that like all of the energy comes from the actors. And here you've got energy and editing and acting. And like, it works

really well. And then you're like, I'm, I could, I could stand to be done now. And Frank Kappas, like, here's another 20 minutes. Here's more cop business. And like, I think a similar thing, befalls, you can't take it with you. His second best picture winner, which is a very funny film,

but is, again, a solid two hours and just has a little bit too much stuff going on. And you're just kind, kind of worn out by the end of it. Although the end of it does feature Lionel Barrymore playing a harmonica. New trivia question that I'm going to throw it out there. Peter Lorry's final film that was released before his death. He had two films that were released posthumously. Anyone know it?

You don't, so I'm just going to tell you what it is. It's a horror comedy called The Comedy of Terror's that co-starred Vincent Price, Peter Lorry, Basil Rathbone, and Boris Karloff. I was going to say, is this some bullshit like trilogy of terror with Karen Black? No, but the poster says your favorite creeps together again, which is basically all I want. Like, that's your average this had Oscar buzz episode. Exactly. Your favorite creeps together again.

Every shroud has a silver lining when old friends get together for a real swinging blast of grave robbery. poisoning and multiple mayhem, the comedy of terrors, in Panavision and color. The with credit on this movie is with Rubarb the cat as Cleopatra. So there we go.

What happened to her? We got to bring her back. What's her now? What was Rubarb's first movie that brought her to? That's going to be my IMDB game. So you're all going to have to remember Rubart's mini-string cut.

Didn't we do an IMD game with Bart the Bear one time, Chris. I think we looked up Bart the Bears. Known for. Yeah. Because there was another animal that was in multiple. Oh, no. It's, um, what's her name?

It's like Daisy or something. She's in Silence of the Lambs. She's in. Oh, the dog. The precious the dog in Soundsville. Is she in Home Alone too? I'm going to look up Silence of the Lambs. That'll get me there.

That dog is in like three famous movies. Don't make me hurt your dog. Um, hold on. No, no, no, no, it's Batman Returns. She's in Batman Returns. Okay. And something else. So she's a cat?

She's a dog. There's a dog in Batman Returns? Yes. It's either one of, like, penguins, penguin people has a dog. Oh, okay. Or it's the, um, the Christmas pageant lady, um, who like pushes the little thing. Oh, and then gets thrown off of the top of the, okay, looking up Batman Returns. turns.

It's really bothering me that I can't find a known for a page for Benji. Lassie. Rude, there is no credit for the dog in IMDB. IMDB, what the hell are you doing, man? Oh, please. Darla. Her name is Darla. Oh, other famous roles.

Oh, yeah, here we go. Yeah, Darla. Pee We's Big Adventure. The only known for it sounds. of the lambs, but it's Darla. We know her for other things. She's incoming to America. The Burbs.

She's in the Burbs. Yeah. Okay. This makes sense. So, yeah, so the known for should be Batman Returns, Silence of the Lambs, the Burbs, and Pewy's big adventure. All right. There you go.

Born in 1975, died in 1992 of natural causes. Resent peace, Darla. It's a good long life for a dog, 17 years. The IMDB page for Lassie treats all the dogs who played Lassie as the same dog, so it makes it seem like this dog has lived for like 80 years. That's intense. What this movie is missing on the farce scale is just like a deadpan dog that looks directly to the camera office style. Oh, yeah.

I was thinking about Pauline Kale's review, and I think what she is keying into is this is not a sex farce. No. Kind of like the end, this is the end of the crazy family farce. And the next direction everything goes is now it's a sex farce. And like that's the next several decades of doing this kind of comedy on the page. And so I do think that, yeah, this is not a sex farce. But also I think if you had sexuality in this movie outside of sort of a vague queerness that kind of overhangs everything, that Frank Capra clearly had no idea was there. Right.

Like I think it would break the film. You know, I think, like, if there were actual, like, oh, they're going to fuck chemistry between Mortimer and his wife, you would, like, the film would just not work anymore. Yeah. Because you would expect them to go fuck. Yeah. It needs to take place in a six-year-old's idea of what marriage is like, you know? Well, you look at the opening title cards, right? And it's all this, like, Halloween imagery that is absolutely straight from, like, the Halloween decorations that we used to put up when I was a kid.

Like the black cat that's sort of like got its backup and is sort of like, you know, cringing. The witch with like the very like pointed hat and pointed chin sort of like witch silhouette and whatever on her broomstick. And like it's all just that very child's sense of, you know, spookiness. I did watching that. I was like, oh, are they witches in this movie? And they're not. But I guess it's just sort of like the imagery of it. They are kind of like, it is sort of a Hansel and Gretel-coded concept, right, where these men wander in from off of the street and they get not cooked in an oven, but buried in the basement.

I did say this movie did have one really effective jump scare when Jonathan comes like bursting through the window above the window box. I was just like, that's for a movie from 1944 to give me like even a momentary fright. like that? I was like, good for you guys. Like, well done. I think that I think is really underrated about Capra. And honestly, other directors who've achieved his level of success, people like Spielberg, Nolan, etc., is they are really capable of being scary.

They're really capable of dropping in a horror beat or two. It's a Wonderful Life. Famously, the section in Potter'sville is very horror-coded. It's not overtly scary. but it's eerie and creepy in a way that it gets under your skin. And there's a lot of Kappa's early work that has moments that are like really kind of frightening or unsettling. And he's drawing from the grammar of things like universal monster movies and like these prison escape pictures and things like that. So he is someone who can turn out a good scare on a dine, you know?

Well, when I was younger, a thing that genuinely did used to scare me in TV and movies was any time that somebody, a familiar. character would like suddenly not know who like who the main character or like you know that like um which which is the thing that happens in pottersville all of these people who are supposed to be his friends now nobody knows him and they're hostile to him and the you know the bartender at martini's you know hate crimes him and uh clarence and throws him what does he say like you two tidily winks out the door through the window pixies yeah uh you two yeah it's uh prominently cited in my chapter on how Bert the cop and Ernie are, birth the cab driver and whoever they are, Bert and Ernie and Bedford Falls are gay and they love each other. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. My nephew recently accidentally homophobic slurred my husband. That's funny. How? I want to see how that goes. Nobody knows that it's a homophobic slick. He'd probably overheard something. I don't know. Probably in like some old cartoon or something. something on TV. It was a game night. And just like out of nowhere to my husband, he says, okay, twinkle toes. And like, he just thinks that it's like a regular goofy insult. He's not

trying to be like whatever. And I laugh my ass. I would too. And I look over to him. I'm like, okay, I'm going to help you with something here, buddy. That is an old homophobic slur. So you got to be careful of who you say that around because some 50-year-old gig, guy is going to be triggered if you say that again. Wait, how old is this kid that you can say homophobic? He is 10. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. So it's like he doesn't know that that's a homophobic slur, but like maybe we should bring back twinkle toes. I don't think. This is like the time I was older than that, but not by much. I was maybe 14. Old enough to have known better, but I was naive 14. And in school, this was actually really, honestly really bad.

The kids in school tricked me into saying an anti-Latino slur to the one, like, Latino kid. Oh, and you had no idea. And I had no idea what it meant. Kids are awful. Awful. And of course, like, he gets mad at me. And I remember I never felt so bad in my life. He, like, immediately, like, he poured his slushy in my bag of, like, chips or whatever and then, like, stormed off.

And I know you were naive, but you deserved it. I did deserve it. Of course I deserved it. Never listened to what kids tell you to say. That was a lesson. A lesson well learned right then. But, ah, awful. Awful.

Anyway. I can't, I can't reclaim the TT slur. But I feel like you guys can. The T T T.C. We can say twinkle toes, but thank you. Yes. Thank you for holding up. Among friends, Chris and I can call each other twinkle toes, for sure.

It was really funny. And I told him, I was like, you shouldn't say that. Now, I also left. You have laughed at you. Yeah. But don't say that. Do not mistake my laughter for permission. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so funny. It's such an old, you're right, though. It's such an old-timey, like slur. Like pixies. But also, like, you know, whatever. In the age of, like, 1940s screen farce, you understand how a slur, like, twinkle-toes exists because of what gay coding was back then.

Or, like, what, you know, even a squishy, Carrie Grant was. Yeah. Carrie Grant, bisexual, we should say bisexual, we should not erase his bisexuality. Yeah. No, it's true. I definitely, I feel like, I feel like Carrie Grant and I could hook up. Like, I feel like he's got that. He definitely has that energy of like, yeah, you know, we'll have a good time. Yeah. That's my one wish, Willow. I want to have sex with Carrie Grant. And I will do the Fiona Apple album title to be like Carrie Grant, but alive, but. I was going to say, yeah, that's a good caveat right there because he has been dead for many years. Not zombie Carrie Grant. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah. Do not send me into the past where things are bad for, you know, people like us. She will magically be in corporal form as he was as he lived for enough time for us to get it on. Did either of you two watch that Carrie Grant miniseries with Jason Isaacs from a few years ago? I hope not because it was. I don't even remember this. It was, I believe it was a British production, but it was like, also broadcast on one of the streamers here.

I genuinely don't even remember what it was called, but I did watch all of it and wrote something about it. Hold on, please, Jason Isaacs. It was produced by... No, that's awards nominations. That's not filmography. It's not like genius. Carrie Grant.

It's not... No, it's not. It is... Archie, of course. course, Archerbald Leach. Archie was a brickbox original, so that's what it was, starring Jason Isaacs is Carrie Grant, Harry Walter, as his mother, and who played, Laura Aitman played Diane Cannon,

but it was also, I believe Diane Cannon was one of the producers, yes, Diane Cannon and then Jennifer Grant, who I believe is Carrie Grant's daughter. So it was definitely a movie that was, or a miniseries, that was made by Carrie Grant's former partner and Carrie Grant's daughter in a way that acknowledges his bisexuality, but like very much sort of slants it towards, you know, Diane Cannon's character being the hero of the tale. in a way in which I'm like, I'm not denying you your truth here, but I'm also like a grain of salt with all of this stuff that's happening here. But it was not good, but in a way that like it probably is going to stick with me for a little bit. So, yeah. If I lived in his time, I could only hope to also have had a famous photo spreads of me and my roommate poolside.

Yes. That was addressed in a documentary that I saw a few years ago, too. Was it referenced in the Rock Hudson documentary? Maybe. That documentary is fun. It's so good. I love that. Ah, gossipy is shit.

What's his name? Terrence McNally. Just like telling tales out of school in that documentary. It's so good. What else should we talk about? I was just looking. this movie has such a wide cast of beloved actors, and yet only one of them won an Oscar,

and very few were ever nominated, which sort of surprised me. Yeah, Josephine Hall. She won supporting actress for Harvey. Another role she originated on the stage that she then brought to film. But, like, Raymond Massey's nominated once. Carrie Grant's nominated twice,

and I think that's it for the... He got an honorary Oscar after he retired. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a very... interesting, it's a very interesting time capsule of a specific period of all of these people's careers because it does, it very much, they were started making this movie before World War II, the U.S. got drawn into World War II, and then like, it becomes this like weird time capsule because it sits on the shelf for so long.

It's, this is, it's not surprising, I suppose, that it's this way, but it's still striking when I look at her Wikipedia and just see that she was born in, 1877 because like it's just like it's crazy to me that like the degrees of separation between people, you know, you know now and people who were born like well back into the 19th century something. But it also says she was born January 3rd, 1877 in Newtonville, Massachusetts, one of four children, but would later shave years off of her age, which I love that like you could just absolutely do that. Just fully just like lie about how old you were and nobody would ever find out. Yeah. Arsenic and Old Lace has only been revived on Broadway in the 80s. It does feel like both on stage and in movies, there is a, like, the taste for farce goes away. And maybe when it comes back, it is in this late 90s, Adam Sandler, Mike Myers way that, like, Farse finds a lane. But we never really have Farse again.

I almost wonder if you did arsenic and old lace now, would you have a different act? Like, would you update it in a way that would you make that character? Would Jonathan still be Boris Karloff? Right. Or would you try to reference something today? More contemporary. More contemporary. I'm also curious.

Somebody who looks like, or stuntcast Dave Batista and have everybody be like, you look exactly like Dave. Like Dave Batista. Yeah. I couldn't find an answer for this. but Bella Lagozy played Jonathan on the road. And I don't know if they said he looks just like Bella Ligosi. Yeah. That would be cool because he and Karloff obviously had their careers intertwined and cross-section.

It looks like Abe Vigoda played Jonathan in the 80s revival. And that is you could go either way. You could say, looks like Boris Karloff. You could say, well, he looks like Abe Fogne. Vigna. He looks like Abe Gavito. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, arsenic and old lace was ranked number 30 on the AFI's 100 years, 100 laughs list. Either of you two want to take some stabs at what were the top 10, what more movies in the top 10 of the AFI list for funniest movies? Oh, boy. Like what hits that cross section of like AFI approved, but also like enshrined comedies? I was so obsessive about these, uh, these lists when they're coming out. I wonder, is Annie Hall up there? I don't think he's number one. There you go.

Is His Girl Friday in the top 10? Not in the top 10. His Girl Friday is number 19. Is bringing a baby in the top 10s? No, that is number 14. Okay. Hmm. Hmm. You've got, let's see.

There's got to be another 70s comedy. Is like Ghostbusters on there? No. the latest movie in the top 10 is 19. They're two from the 1980s. There are one, two, three from the 70s, two from the 60s, one from the 50s, nothing from the 40s, and then two from the 30s.

Oh, some like it hot's got to be up. Yeah, like it hot is number two. Okay. Is Tutsi in there? Tutsi's number three. Tutsi's number three. Yep. So you got three out of the 10.

So we just got to think of more movies that seem like they're going to be transphobic and then kind of what. The two 80s movies are early 80s, so Tutsi is one of them. The other one is not an Oscar movie, although I think it actually, did it get an Oscar nominee? Is this one of those movies that I always forget that it got an Oscar nomination? Or, well, anyway, it's a parody of a movie that definitely got Oscar nominations. Is it Airplane? It is Airplane. Because didn't we do like 100 years, 100 snubs?

And I said airplanes. No, that's what it was. Is I said airplane for original screenplay, and I got corrected by everybody, but it's an adapted screenplay from zero out or whatever. Okay, so two from the 70s. You got Annie Hall. The other one was also a Best Picture nominee.

I can't believe I'm just like going into the white space where I can't name any movies at this prompt. Best Picture nominee from a very famous director. In the 70s? Yeah, became a TV show. A very successful TV show. Oh, mash. Smash.

Yep. The one movie or two movies from the 1960s, both Best Picture nominees. The Graduate? The Graduate is number nine. The apartment? The apartment is number like 20. 20, yes. Wow. Justice for the apartment.

Yeah. I know. The other 60s movie is from a very, very revered filmmaker. Dr. Strange Love. Dr. Strangelove. Yep. Yep. Yep.

So you're missing the number one movie, which is from, oh, yeah, there's another third movie from the 70s, which is the number one. And then you're missing the two movies from the 30s, which are number six and eight. One from the 30s is from a filmmaker. We're very much discussing in this episode. Oh, it happened one night. It is. It happened one night.

Yeah. Yeah. The other one is from a very famous group of comedians. I was going to say, to quote, Beetlejuice, I've seen The Exorcist about 167 times, and it keeps getting funnier every time. Every year time, yeah. Is it duck soup or night at the office?

Duck soup. Duck soup is number six. Okay, number one movie from a perhaps the most, like, revered comedy filmmaker of all time. Oh, boy. Melbrook. Oh, Young Frankenstein. Nope.

Oh, Blazing Saddles. Blazing Saddles is number one. Young Frankenstein is number 13. Well done. I got to say, Young Frankenstein, funnier than Blazing Saddles. I agree with you. I think I agree.

And the producers is also there at number 11. So he's got, he's got, Wow. So there's two movies above Young Frankenstein. I like all three of those, but I think I'd rank Blazing Saddles third. And that's because I am too woke.

That's what it is. Listen, none of them are Robin Hood menentites, but I will let them all exist in their own medium. Um, respect to Dracula dead and loving it. I, I, it may be worth just talking about Frank Capra's Oscar obsession at this point. Yeah, no, I want to, yeah, I, yeah, I, yeah. We should also mention, uh, he is one of the very few directors to have three directing Oscars. Yes, which he won in, I think, three and four years.

So it's the tune for, it's crazy. It's so crazy. It's, it happened one night, uh, which he wins in 35 and then, um, Mr. Dietz comes to town. he loses best picture but wins best director for that and then he also wins best director for you can't take it with you and it's it's amazing the degree to which he was the industry in the 30s and then how he just like lost it but there it is if you read a lot of his if you read biographies of him if you read his autobiography the Oscars are like less than 10 years old yeah there may be less than five years old and he's like I got to win one of those

Yeah. He just, like, turns his entire career toward winning an Oscar. He, like, gets on Academy, like, committees and all he's, like, getting very involved in the Academy. And he makes a film called The Bitter Tea of General Yen, which is actually quite a good movie if you can overlook the fact that the main character is in Yellowface, which is very hard to overlook. but it is like one of the first ever depictions of an interracial relationship in a Hollywood film and it's a very

it's a very thoughtful movie about like you know love happening between two people who have very different backgrounds all these things and he's like I'm going to make that I got this script that's going to win me all my Oscars and then the same year he makes Lady for a day which is his big breakthrough where he gets

a number of nominations and bitter tea just like goes nowhere. And then he just like keeps every movie he makes gets a best picture nomination from, it happened one night, Mr. Deeds goes to town, Lost Horizon, which is a real stinker. Like it's really boring. It's so boring. It has its moments, but it is a movie that needed to be an hour shorter. And then you can't take it with you.

Mr. Smith goes to Washington, arguably the best of all of those. And then he makes a film called Meet John Doe, which is his first movie with Warner Brothers. And that's one that y'all could do on your Patreon because it unexpectedly gets one Oscar nomination for its story and nothing else. Those early Oscar years, the story Oscars will really throw shit off. Is that the one that's the inspiration for Meachow Black or is that a different movie? No, that's about... That's a holiday. It is death takes a holiday.

Yeah. Thank you. That's about like what if a man became, what if a man who was held up by the working man and got used by the ruling class to further suppress, further oppress the working class? And it's, I think it's quite a good movie, but it was really the bloom was off the rows at that point. And then arsenic and old lace is his first movie in like a decade to not receive a single nomination. And then it's a wonderful life, you know, gets a lot of noms and doesn't win anything. But he was so obsessed with the Oscars in a way that we think about like Bradley Cooper now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's kind of like the first guy who was like, this is so important to me. This has to happen for me. And like he became just the early, one of the early kings of the Oscars alongside John Ford and William Weiler. So, good for you, Frank. But you're so right. Like that first Lady for a Day is nominated at the sixth Academy Award. It happened one night wins at the seventh Academy Awards. Like, yeah.

It happened one night, too. That was still when they were still doing 10. Actually, one, two, three, four, five, six, nine, ten, eleven, 12 nominees that year, my goodness. And one of the rare years in those early years where like the winner is the best known and best remembered of those nominees. The thin man is also nominated that year. And that's, you know, one of them. But the otherwise you've got like Barrett's of Wimpole Street.

and the Cecil B. DeMille, Cleopatra, that also starred Claudette Colbert. Clodette Colbert was killing it in 34. The House of Rothschild, I do not want to know what was going on in the House of Rothschild. But a Roth probably that we don't know. It's a prequel to House of Gucci. Oh, okay. Not a particularly ethical Rothschild, but I am fair. Weirdly, Jared Lettos also in it. Crazy.

Crazy. Right. So, 1944. Arsenic and old days. Best Picture winner is going my way. Going my way. Big winner. How?

I think it is like... How recently have you all rewatched? I watched it recently. I got to say, when we talk about great sequels and sequels that are better than the original, Boys of St. Mary's, like, whips the pants off of going my way. Going my way. I can never remember which of the two I've seen. These were movies that would, when they were shown on television, my dad would always be like, watch this movie with me.

This is a really great movie. It's about father, what was his name? Father O'Malley. Father O'Malley. Yeah. The premise is, what if a priest wore a hat? And you're like, whoa. And sang a song.

Yeah. The premise of Bells of St. Mary's is what if a nun taught you out a box? Yeah, Bels of St. Mary's is so much better than going my way. But I kind of enjoy going my way for how quaint it is. You also can sort of understand why, like, that is one of the big, big, big hits of the World War II era. You can sort of understand why that movie really, like, comforted people in that moment. But, yeah, it's, uh, uh, Bels of St. Marys is the one that you can watch now because it does, like, there's like a, frisson of like sexual tension in it in an interesting way.

And I mean like Ingrid Bergman may be the greatest to ever do it in my opinion. Yeah. So good. Like all you need is that woman's face trying to express something without words. Yeah. And you got a movie. So the other major movies this year that are nominated for Oscars, double indemnity, Billy Wilder's double indemnity as a Best Picture nominee, as is Gaslight, George Cucco.

or his gaslight. And then both Alfred Hitchcock and Otto Preminger are nominated for director, but not for picture. Preminger for Laura and Hitchcock for Lifeboat. I'm trying to go. Well, this is also right. Your Woodrow Wilson movie, Wilson. And then a movie called Since You Went Away.

War romance. Oh, another, man, Claudio Colbert was everybody in the 19, everywhere in the 1930s and 40s. Claudette Colbert, Jennifer Jones, Joseph Cotton, and Shirley Temple. Sure. Your acting winners that year, Biggin Crosby, for Going My Way. Ingrid Bergman, future.

What was she, the sister, what, in the Bells of St. Mary's? I don't remember. But, yeah. She wins for Gaslight. Barry Fitzgerald famously nominated an actor and supporting actor for going my way and wins for supporting actor. And then Ethel Barrymore.

wins for none but the lonely heart, which Carrie Grant was nominated for. And as an overlap with It's Wonderful Life, she's Lionel Barrymore's sister. Uh-huh, yes. So, and Drew Barrymore's great aunt. Yep, yep. So.

Some really good, like, fun actors, though, who are like, I just imagine, like, being in the room this year. You mentioned Carrie Grant is nominated. Betty Davis is nominated for Mr. Skeffington. Barbara Stanwick is nominated for double indemnity. Angela Lansbury is nominated for Gaslight. Agnes Moorhead for Mrs. Parkington is a supporting actress nominee.

Claude Raines for Mr. Skeffington. Hume Cronin for the Seventh Cross. So I imagine Jessica Tandy might have been there where they married at that point. They were married forever, right? Yeah. Yeah. A movie named Mr. Skeffington and a movie named Mrs. Parkington were nominated this year. Hollywood was running the gamut in 1944, all the way from...

We used to have names. That's fantastic. Yes. Yeah. We were in the same cinematic universe, and there's just scenes in both of them, of them just greeting each other. Is Descafington? Do you know what was a screenplay nominee this year was a guy named Joe,

which Steven Spielberg would, remake in 1989 as always. So you have that. Of these movies we've listed, a lot of them are really great. Laura is one I find people often haven't seen, and that's like one of the best looking movies ever. It's so weird. I've never seen it.

I should. Yeah. It's like if you like sumptuous black and white photography, Laura is the movie for you. Yeah. And then the best one, not nominated for Best Picture, Meet Me in St. Louis. So there you go.

Yes. That got nominated somewhere, yes. Two of the... Two of the original screenplay nominees are Hail the Conquering Hero and Miracle of Morgan's Creek, both by Preston Sturgis, which are among the funniest movies ever made, especially Miracle of Morgan's Creek. So, yeah. God, they used to nominate like 20 songs.

They just, like, did not pare down that list at all. And it's not like they were on TV that they were giving musical numbers. Right. Right. Swinging on a star from Going My Way does defeat the trolley song from Meet Me and St. Louis. And the winner of the animated short is one of the Umpteen Tom and Jerry winners. You go back and look at the old Oscars and it's like you expect it to be Disney versus Warner Brothers. But there's this just giant swath of time when they couldn't get enough of Tom and Jerry.

And it's confusing to me. Oh, yeah, Mouse Trouble. Walt Disney is nominated for a movie called How to Play Football. That's with Goofy. Oh, okay. I have seen that. You know who would probably be pretty bad at teaching you how to play football. Goofy?

Goofy. He doesn't have elbows or knees. I have a feeling he probably falls down a lot in that, is my guess. And then what did I say? Swooner-Krooner, which I believe is the one I was talking about, where they had a Frank Sinatra rooster. Yes, it was. Holy shit.

Yeah. It all comes around. So there we go. Showing up our rooster caricatures of Von Monroe, Al Jolson, Jimmy Durante, and Cadd Calloway. I'm going to go look this up after we're done. I'm going to watch Spooner Krooner. I think we need to do one of those like one heat minute-style podcast about Wilson.

Like we just talk about one minute of Wilson. Yeah. Oh, my God. The best minute of Wilson, though. We've got to find the absolute single best minute of Wilson. I mean, all I have to say about Wilson, and I'm sure I would say this also. What if I saw Wilson and I was like, Wilson's great. We have always been making this bullshit.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Vincent Price plays an American lawyer named William G. Macadoo in that movie. So we used to have names. We did used to have names back then. Any last notes on arsenic and old lace.

I think you could have nominated it for any number of awards. I don't know that it should have won anything that year. I think there's plenty of better movies, but I enjoy it. I think it's... Throw it an adapted screenplay nomination. Why not? Yeah. I feel like if you are one of those people who does like a Halloween movie marathon,

if you're doing a new movie every day in October, you like throw on a bunch, this is like a good one to throw in as a pallet cleanse. Yes. Because it has that Halloween atmosphere without being overbearing. So, yep, I think that's a great idea. I have to end my thoughts with my favorite joke from the movie. Yes. Carrie Grant is calling the mental institution explaining that his brother thinks he's Teddy Roosevelt

and the man who's running the mental institution says we have several Teddy Roosevelt at the moment. I also, the joke where he talks about how, somebody's trying to take the presidency away from me. And Carrie Grant goes who? And he just goes taft. And they look at the other guy. And he like takes his overcoat and like covers up his midsection. Listen, fat jokes are mean-spirited, but you know, a taft joke, what are you going to do?

I got to say, only two nominees for Best Documentary Feature. And they are The Fighting Lady, which won from the United States Navy. Okay. And then this is a great title of a movie. Resisting Enemy Interrogation from the United States Army Air Force. They were just nominating military film strips, essentially. That's the only people who were making documentaries. Exactly.

That and, like, medical documentaries. Proper hygiene for naval cadets or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, everybody deserves an awesome. if they make the best movie in their field that year, and those people did. All right, Joe, would you like to explain the IMDB game? What I ever. All right, every week we end our episodes with the IMDB game,

where we challenge each other with a name of an actor or actress and try and guess the top four titles that IMDB says they are most known for. If any of those titles are television shows, voice-only performances, or non-acting credits, we will mention that up front. After two wrong guesses, we get the remaining titles release years as a clue. and if that is not enough, it just becomes a free-for-all of hints. That's the IMDB game. Indeed.

Emily, as our guest, you get to call the shots. Would you like to give first or guess first? I think I will give first. Okay. Who are you going to give to, Joe or myself? I will give to Joe. Okay. And I think, have you done Kerry Grant before?

If we have, it was forever ago. I think we should do Carrie Grant. All right. Let's do Carrie Grant. Okay. I got to figure the Philadelphia story is one of them. That is one of them, yes. Okay.

North by Northwest? No. Hitchcocks are always tough because there's so many of them, but it's not always the one that you think. Bringing a baby. Nope. Not in there. All right.

Give me my years, even though I don't think they will help me. 1940? Okay. 1984. Ninety-three. Is 44 arsenic and old days? It is. Okay.

Yes. 40 is 40? His Girl Friday? It is, yes. Okay. And then 60. 63. So that's late.

Um, one of his very last movies, is it? Yeah. I think we mentioned another movie was in the public domain earlier in the episode. This movie, through various chains, is also in the public domain. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it's, um, hmm, how can I not give this away? It's, uh... Would I have seen this movie?

Quite possibly. Like, I have seen it, but it's because my mom was a big fan. It did win. It was a nominee for an Oscar. Okay. For its song. Hmm. In 1963.

Yeah. Is it a Hitchcock or no? No. He has no Hitchcock and is known for, which is kind of odd. It's aiming for that Hitchcock vibe, I'd say, but it's not a Hitchcock. Oh, gosh. Okay. Headlines the movie with another very famous actress.

Is it charade? Is it charade? Sharrade. Sharrade. What a fun movie. All right. Yeah, I've never seen that movie. I should have seen that movie.

All right. It's in the public domain. You can probably watch it anywhere. I'll hold a screening for it somewhere because now I can. Yes. Maybe it was in the public domain and no longer is somehow. At one point, that movie was in the public domain. Yeah.

All right. So, Chris, I'm giving to you. Yes. So I mentioned earlier, she was married to Carrie Grant for three years in the 1960s. Diane Cannon. Okay, Diane Cannon. Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. Yes.

One of yours truly's favorite movies. Yes. Heaven Can Wait. Yes. And this is where it gets difficult. Is she in shampoo? No. Shampoo.

No. No. No. This is going to be very hard and I'm going to need hints. That's fine. But I love her so much for Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice, and then you would think I would know more of her, but I don't think I do. What else could I imagine?

Oh, Last of Sheila. Last of Sheila, yes. What a fun movie. One more. I can give you a year if you want to just, like, throw out a dummy guest. Sure, I'll throw out something dumb and I'll say another Warren Beatty movie. Not shampoo, obviously. I haven't...

Wait. I know she's not in reds. I'll just say reds. Yes, just say reds. No. Although, right around then, 1982. Okay. So this is a movie that I have not seen,

and you maybe haven't seen, but it's directed by a very famous director. And it seems like it's sort of going for some of the same vibes as one of the other three movies on her known for. So it's like a sex comedy? No. A murder mystery.

Yeah. In 82. Mm-hmm. Is it an ensemble murder mystery? It is an ensemble murder mystery. This is neither here nor there, but she was nominated for the Rassie for worst supporting actors for this film. Oh, wow.

So it's not well regarded. She's third build after Michael Cain and Christopher Reeve. Oh, Death Trap? Yes. Have you seen Death Trap? I've never... I have not. Death Trap is gay.

Is it? But I've never watched it. I should watch it tonight. I've given myself so many movies to watch tonight. I'm going to have a very busy night. Yeah, Christopher Reeve in the one production still that's on IMDB, or one of them at least, he is holding a sive of some sort, a bladed weapon. So... That looks fun.

Anybody else in this movie that I would know of? Joel Siegel plays Joel Siegel, and Jeffrey Lyons plays Jeffrey Lyons. It's directed by Sidney Lumet. Jenny Lumet is in it as stage newsboy. So lots going on. Lots going on in Death Trap. All right.

All right, Emily, for you, I have gone into the Capra stable. And naturally, I had to pick James Stewart. Oh. Well, okay. It's a wonderful light. Correct. Mr. Smith goes to Washington?

Correct. Okay. I wonder how well-regarded Philadelphia story. Is Philadelphia story? Not correct. Incorrect as Oscar win. Vertigo? Vertigo is correct.

Okay. All right. So it's not going to be another Capra because those are all, I think, too obscure now. Hmm. Hmm. And you didn't tell me his voiceover, so it's not American Tale 2, 5 will goes west. If only, but now. Which we all know it would have been.

It's probably number five. I'm just going to, I'm going to say Winchester 73 because it would be in my top four, but I doubt it is. Incorrect. So your year is 1959. Oh, okay. His most recent movie in his known for. It's not a man who shot Liberty Valance, is it? No.

Wrong genre. That's like 62. Okay. Yeah. All right. This is a thing that I know I'm going to be upset when I... Is it another Hitchcock? I don't think he...

It's not, but I bet that there's people who would confuse it for one. Yes. Okay. All right. There's a movie you mentioned. that you think is really, really good and beautifully filmed that is the same director. Oh, okay.

Anatomy of a murder? Yes, correct. There we go. His last Oscar nomination. That's one of the ones of his I haven't seen. No, nor do. One of the things I love about It's a Wonderful Life, and I talk about this in the book,

is that the first half of it is pre-World War II Jimmy Stewart and the second half is post-World War II Jimmy's. It's the one movie that gives you both modes of him. Yeah. It's why I think it's his best performance, but he's, he was, he was really good at using his persona against himself, especially in like, when he worked with thriller directors. Yeah. Rope is a really good example of that. He uses his persona sort of with and against.

Yeah. Yeah. Rope is kind of like, to me at least, one of his first America's dad performances. Is he disappointed in you? Like disappointed dad. Yeah. You know. I watched a couple episodes of the Jimmy Stewart show, his sitcom from the 70s.

Whoa. He's trying so hard. And it's like the thing he just cannot do is sitcom. Is that KJ. Apa movie supposed to actually come out this year? Is that a thing that doesn't actually exist? I, you know what? It's one of those things where like either it will come out in five years. from some Christian distributor

or it's going to come out this year and receive seven Oscar. I was going to say, and the Kid Golden Globe nominated. Yeah. For Best New Star. They'll resurrect that category. It will win best movie for grownups.

Yes. Oh, my God. They will love the Jimmy Stewart movie. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. That's our episode. If you want more, This Head Oscar Buzz.

You can check out the Tumblr at thishead oscarbuzz. com. You should also follow us on Instagram at This Head, Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash this hat Oscar buzz. Emily, thank you so much for coming back. This is always a blast. I feel like there's a new rule. We have to do something further back than our norm whenever you're on unless you want to do in good company again. wings next. No, we can't do wings obviously, but whatever. The wings directors follow up that didn't get nominated. I still stand at the ready to do all too well the 10-minute short film. I still am I still am ready to do that. You want those fans to come out.

Tell the listeners, where would you like to direct the listeners for your work? Tell us once again about the book. Yeah, it's called Every Time a Bell rings. I co-wrote it with Lauren Tyson of Defector, and you can find it everywhere. Books are sold. I recommend buying it at bookshop, but you can you can buy it at Amazon or Barnes & Noble or whatever. It's all, it's all good to me. You're still my friend.

It's a, like, it's a book that really, like, looks at its wonderful life from a variety of perspectives. It's not just like a making of or a history of book. It's really trying to dig into why this movie's so beloved, why, as Lauren and I argue, it is the great American film. And you can find my work at Episodesd.gost.io, my newsletter. You can hear me on the podcast. Podcast, Podcast Like It's with Phil Iscove, which both of you have been on and will hopefully be on again. Yellow Jackets, the TV show I write for is back in November. And then my novel Woodworking is in paperback.

You can buy that. And I have a novel coming out next March that's up for presale. So just like Google Me in. I already have my pre-sail in. Yeah. Great. As a woodworking fan, when you announced your fiction follow-up, I was also very excited.

All over it. Thank you. It's called Beth March Returns from the dead. And I promise you

don't have to know anything about little women to read it. That's the question I just keep answering to everybody. Listen,

you just know Beth dies. And Rachel Green told us that. It's in the title. Rachel Green told us that in friends.

So it shouldn't be a mystery. Her best line meeting on that entire show, by the way, is that episode where she and

Joey are in the fight about reading little women and the shining. And he spoils the ending of the shining

And she just goes, Beth dies. Like that. And like, it's great. We are too close to the end. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Into this.

But the best line reading of friends, a show that I don't think I could sit through now, is when Phoebe and Rachel were trying to flirt with Chandler because they wanted to out the relationship with Monica. And Lisa Goddrow says, so, this is my bra. That is the best line reading. It's his line reading. Anyway, Joe, tell the listeners where they can find you. Letterbox and Blue Sky at Joe Reed, read-spelled REID. I'm also at Vulture, doing the movies Fantasy League and Cinematrix and any number of other things as we head into the final quarter of the year.

And you can find me on Letterbox and Blue Sky at Chris Vile, that's FVIL. We would like to thank Kyle Cummings for his fantastic artwork, Dave Insulles and Gavin Mievious, for their technical guidance when we need it because we're dumb and Taylor Cole for our theme music. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So open up that basement door and let those 13 five-star reviews come up and take a bow. That's all for this week.

We hope you'll be back next week for more buzz.