This Had Oscar Buzz - BONUS – A sneak peek at Demi, Myself, & I – GHOST (with Bobby Finger!)

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

SURPRISE! By now, you’ve heard that Joe has launched Demi, Myself, & I, a film-by-film trip through the career of Demi Moore. As a special bonus, we’re giving you a sneak preview of the pod’s new episode on one of Moore’s most popular films, Ghost! And along for the ride is beloved former THOB guest, … Continue reading "BONUS – A sneak peek at Demi, Myself, & I – GHOST (with Bobby Finger!)"

This is Oscar Buzz listeners. What a surprise. You know me, but you don't know maybe necessarily this podcast that we're going to put into your feeds right now. A little bonus. A little bonus, a little sneak peek from behind the Patreon wall for my podcast, to me, myself, and I, which I have been happily churning out episodes since the late summer. I really love it. I really feel like we're hitting a really good groove with.

it, we're hitting a really interesting part of Demi's career. I would really love for all of you wonderful This Had Oscar Buzz listeners and fans to come check us out there. And to that end, I'm going to give you a little free bonus episode here on The This Had Oscar Buzz. A tease, a tease of what's in store over it to me, myself, and I. Gary's, you in danger, girl, of having a good time listening to me and our friend, Bobby Finger, talk about the movie Ghost on Demi, Myself, and I. It's one of my favorite episodes that we've done, an incredible movie, definitely worth, you've seen it. So I think also the fact that, like, I'm trusting that, like, you've probably seen Ghost. You remember Ghost, but wouldn't you love a conversation?

You watched it on a VHS that you bought at McDonald's for 99 cents, along with a Big Mac meal. Also, if you've been living for Monstro, Elyssesu, all these many weeks, what better way to show your love for Demi more than... And you're hitting the DeMee, like, happy hour now. You're getting into the 90s over it, to me, myself and I. Oh, yeah. Time to subscribe. There's more episodes waiting for you, all about the 80s, including multiple. with me. That's right. Chris has been my trusty companion on movies where it's like,

I don't know if people are going to want to watch this, but we don't have a good time talking about it and we have. So enjoy this episode. It is for free for all of you to listen to. And then if you like what you hear, pop on over to patreon.com slash demipod. That's patreon.com. E-E-M-I-P-O-D, and you can sign up for the low-low cost of $5 a month. And as Chris said, we're hitting some real, real good Demi movies coming up. So you don't want to miss out on the indecent proposal discussion, the A Few Good Men discussion. The, oh, by the way, Vanity Fair cover story conversation that I'm going to have with Katie Rich and Richard Lawson, and it's going to be so rad.

So Chris is going to be back soon with an un... Redacted? Redacted? Redacted? Redact? We can redact. Yes, we can redact. It's going to be great. You're going to enjoy yourself. Have a good time with this episode. And I'll see you over on the Patreon. Welcome, friends, strangers, clairvoyance, and criers. Soho Yuppies and Subway Poltergeists to Demi Myself and I, the podcast where we make our way, film by film,

through the career of the unchained melody that is Demi Moore. We've arrived at one of the big ones, depending on your point of view, perhaps the big one. The Demi Moore, who would eventually become the highest paid actress in the world, would not have existed without the 1990 Blockbuster, Best Picture nominee, Beloved Classic Ghost. There's almost no point in delaying the gratification of talking about this movie with the co-host

of the Who Weekly podcast and the author of the novels The Old Place and Four Squares, my great friend Bobby Finger. So let's get this place setting handled and then we can get right into it. After so much familial stress went into the making of Demi's previous film

where no angels, only for the movie itself, to land with such a thud. The prospect of her next movie was, at the very least, intriguing. In her 2019 memoir Inside Out, DeMey talks about what an exciting but also uncertain thing ghost was as a script. It was three movies in one,

a love story, a ghost story, and a thriller, and the director, Jerry Zucker, had never made anything like it. Zucker was one-third of the famed Zucker-Abram's Zucker trio, who together were best known for broad comedies, like airplane and top secret. As Demi put it, this was either going to be amazing or a disaster. Demi got the part of Molly Jensen without having to audition,

which she says was gratifying. To hear her tell it the strongest bit of intuition she had going into the film was her determination to get her hair cut short in what she called a Parisian style modeled after actress Isabella Rossellini. After her French stylist reportedly screwed up the cut, she went back to New York and got it fixed, allegedly by the same stylist who did the original Rossellini cut. To DeMey, this haircut fit Molly's bohemian artist existence in what she says in the memoir is Tribeca,

despite the fact that Molly is almost certainly subsisting on some kind of family money in what absolutely is Soho and not Tribeca, but we'll let it slide. Regardless, DeMe got Zucker on board with her new look and went on to have what she says was a great experience filming the movie with Patrick Swayze and Whoopi Goldberg. One imagines the subsequent successive ghost at both the box office and the Oscars puts the experience of making the movie in the rosiest light possible, but still, DeMey talks about the great chemistry onset and Patrick Swayze's comfortable open sweetness.

Demi worked with an acting coach to access the emotional depths she would need for some of ghosts more emotional scenes. There are multiple scenes where Demi cries on camera, no sobs or sounds at all, just tears dropping silently from her eyes and down her face. In her memoir, Demi talks about how she came to be known as a great crier in films. She mentions being asked by a young journalist at Sundance one year about shedding tears in both this film and Charlie's Angel's full throttle. I looked up the clip. It is, of course, Matt Rogers, interviewing Demi from Vulture's interview lounge several years ago. You can go watch it. It's great.

Can you describe what it is like to be the most icon. cryer in cinema history. It's a lot of pressure. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure. Are there tears in this movie? Are they real tears? Are they real tears?

Yes. And you have the ability to make it come out of the middle of your eye? I have no control over any of it. I'm just hoping for the best. Really? I just wanted to come. Like, I wanted to be real. Yeah. On every take, you're like, I hope this is gorgeous.

I mean, you want me to try to like, can you, wait, how do that? Ghost was a massive financial success. It opened number two. behind, ironically, Die Hard 2, starring her husband, Bruce Willis, then jumped up to number one in its second week before spending a grand total of 19 weeks in the top five. Four of those weeks, it was at number one. It finished as the number two film of 1990 behind Only Home Alone and ahead of eventual Best Picture Winner Dances with Wolves, the Julia Roberts Smash Pretty

Woman, and a cinematic tour to force that was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The film went on to be nominated for five Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Film Editing, and Best Original Score, losing all three to Dances with Wolves. The film won two Oscars, however. Whoopi Goldberg, of course, wins for Best Supporting Actress for her role as Oda Mae Brown, and Bruce Joel Rubin wins for Best Original Screenplay. De Me was also nominated for The Golden Globe, for Best Actress in a Comedy or Musical, where she lost to eventual Oscar nominee Julia Roberts for Pretty Woman. Somewhat predictably, for the times, the critics were less enthusiastic about the crowd-pleasing film. Roger Ebert's two-and-a-half-star review said the film contains some nice ideas, and occasionally, for whole moments at a time, succeeds in evoking the mysteries that it toys with.

Gene Siskel called it a curiously appealing amalgam of thriller, comedy, romance, and supernatural elements. And he said to me more, has never been more fetching. Keep it in your pants, 1990, Gene. On Siskel and Ebert at the movies, Gene gave Ghost a thumbs up while Roger kept his thumb, sadly down. Janet Maslin of the New York Times was more or less on point when she said Ghost is too slow-moving at times, and a few of its special effects look incongruously silly, particularly those showing what happens to ghosts, not as virtuous as Sam. She's absolutely right about that. Of Demi, Maslin said she combines toughness and delicacy most attractively, but the story requires her to look terminally wistful,

of the time. Newsweek's David Anson said Moore has never been more appealing, and a grouchy Richard Corliss delivered a wordy backhand to the film calling Ghost a bad movie that a lot of people would like. After a break for a clip from the movie's trailer, I'm going to be talking about Ghost, the sad financial fate of Rita Miller, and Tony Goldwyn looking hot as fuck with his shirt off, with my good friend, who weekly co-host and author of The Old Place and For Squares, Bobby Finger. Say my name, say it. Leave me alone.

Help me. Hello. I get a message from Sam. What? Sam Wheat? He asked me to call. Once you go to police, he said it was the setup. He was murdered.

She said Sam knew who killed him. Are you out of your mind? I mean, what are you going to tell the police? She knew things, private things. I know about the green under way that you wrote your name on. This psychic bum has got a record that goes back a long way. Don't you see him, not a fake. I don't know what to read him anymore.

Don't open him. He's don't open the damn door. He's a murderer. Why are you doing this to me? Do you hear me? Why are you doing this to me? Sam's dead. Tell her I love her.

He says he loves you. Sam would never say that. Bobby Finger, welcome to Demi, myself, and I cannot express how perfect it is that you're doing the ghost episode. Like when I, so many of. of these episodes have been like the absolute like number one choice for fitting the guest to the movie. And Ghost always makes me think of you because when we were first becoming friends, you were obsessed with Ghost the Musical. I remember. You were so glad you brought that up. Obsessed with going to see Ghost the Musical. And I was having this thought today of like,

so that was around what, like 2011? 2012. Maybe it was announced in, I feel like I met you in maybe 2011. That's probably true. It was probably announced in 2011 and came out in 2012 because I saw it in 2012. So I was already in New York for like about five years, which is funny to make this observation that I'm going to make. But I remember it being like the first time I was really struck by the idea of like, oh, you can like something genuinely like it for like purely like laughing reason.

You know what I mean? Just like purely. Because it's just dumb. Like, the idea of it is, like, kind of silly. And the idea of Ghost, the musical, is so funny on paper when you read it. Yeah. And I had to see it. I thought it would be such a hoot.

But I, I kind of liked it. Like, I, there's... I did kind of like it. Yeah. There were things that I liked. We saw Devine Joy Randolph's big moment, like, not even knowing how big she would be, although she does kind of have the... standout songs from the musical, even though

there is a song that I sort of embarrassingly listen to pretty regularly from that musical that is sung by Casey Levy? Yeah, that's sung by her character. That I think is very beautiful. What's it called? Because I know, it's probably the one that I listened to the most. It's called Nothing Stops Another Day.

And I think it very, very beautiful. The big Go-to-May one is... I was thinking of, hold on a second. There's definitely some. with you, maybe? Maybe. I mean, it's a, there's also, there's also the number. So this is one of those sort of like the curse of modern musicals where it's all

screens. It's all screens and treadmills in this one. Because like anything to do with like the subway, it's all depicted in screens and treadmills. It's definitely my least favorite thing about it. My favorite is. here right now, which is like the very, very first sort of like I want song. That's a nice song. It's a very, yeah, yeah, early. And they have him sing Unchained Melody, which is a mistake.

Only works because it's ghost, but even, even that is like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's, I'm glad that it gets it over with early so that we can just like move on from Unchained Melody. I could not tell you who played Sam Wheat in that. I remember Casey Levy, who ended up doing, um, Frozen, the musical on Broadway. among other things. And then Bryce Pinkham was Carl. I remember that because I remember being like, oh, fine. They got a hot guy to play Carl. They did get a hot guy to play Carl. Because I've always, I've always thought Bryce Pinkham was hot. But like he went on to do like gentlemen's guide to murder and all this other stuff. I've seen Bryce Pinkham on Broadway like more times than probably almost anybody. Because I also saw him in the Heidi Chronicles and I saw him in like at least one other thing. I feel like he might have been in Mystery of Edwin Drood. But like there's just like, I've seen him in a ton of things. things. I saw him in waitress. Oh, really? Maybe I didn't see him in waitress. I'm looking through his list as like, I know that I saw him again in something. Maybe it was just a television show because I was like, oh, that guy played Sam Wheat. No, Tony Goldwyn in Ghost. And that was my very strange connection for this person that like a very probably small amount of people can make. Totally. And I, yes. Like, and he's also one of those people who like, I can't, I don't know if I have a connection for him not on the stage. Like, usually these people sort of like cross over enough that I'm like, oh, okay, like they're, you know, consummate guest star on whatever.

And I don't know if I have that with Bryce Pinkham. I think it's like entirely stage stuff. My cat is really, really intrigued by Ghost. Also, I mean, speaking of Ghost, there's a cat in this podcast. Yes. I had forgotten how much the cat plays a part plot-wise in that the cat, like, heroically scratches Willie Lopez in the face. Yeah, he saves her life.

100%. Oh, I did maybe see Bryce Pinkham. No, he couldn't have been. I saw the chess production at the Kennedy Center, but I saw it with Raoulosparza and someone else. Oh, wow. Maybe it was Bryce Pinkham. Honestly, this is a rabbit hole I can't afford to go down.

The other thing, though, is, oh, so I wanted to start off, just in general, your thoughts on Demi Moore as sort of a movie star who you sort of, what were your sort of earliest impressions or memories of like seeing Demi Moore movies or like your impression of her as a movie star growing up? Ghost. It was Ghost. Because that was my definitely the first time I ever saw her anything because my parents really liked Ghost. And so did my sister. And so we owned Ghost. We didn't own many movies. My mom just really liked it. And you know, like go back to the 90s. Sometimes family movie night is just like whatever is on your shelf. You know, like you watch while you were sleeping for the million time because it's there. And it's one of the few in the library that like, the whole family can enjoy, and Ghost was one of those movies, despite it being kind of like a little sexy, a little sexy, like, but not gratuitous at all. I'm surprised watching it back how little skin is actually like revealed in that big sort of like the aftermath of the clay pot scene. It's, it's pretty chaste. But I watched it a lot. I thought Wobie Goldberg was hilarious. And I think by that point, I'd certainly already seen sister.

or it was around the same time. So, like, I had a huge, like, sister act and ghost were very big, like, let's all watch a movie together as a family, even if it's one we've seen before. Yeah. Of that, like, early 90s period. So those, that was my go-to. And honestly, it wasn't until, I guess, the substance was announced or starting to get buzz at can, coupled with you asking me to be on the podcast, that I was really looking at

DeMe Moore's filmography and realizing how few movies. I'd seen, you know, like, a very small percentage of movies, you know? It's not a ton of movies before we reach the point where her career becomes, remember when Demi was an A-list actress. Do you know what I mean? We're like, because by the time she does Charlie's Angels full throttle, that's already like, hey, like, it's a little bit of a nostalgia play. Like, this is the new generation of girls and then, you know, now Demi is going to come in from, like the previous generation or whatever. And so that was not that far into her career.

Like, she's probably made as many movies since them that, like, nobody remembers and nobody can name the titles of. For sure. That not to, like, undersell what the back half of this podcast is going to be. We're going to double up some of those episodes. But, like, there's a lot of stuff where I'm like, I've never seen this. I don't know. You know, there's a Sam Levinson movie in there.

There's, um, some. thing called Keeping Up with the Joneses that I sort of remember hearing about. I saw that in theaters. It's fine. Yeah. I hadn't even seen a few good men until a month ago. Oh, no kidding. I'd never watched it.

My sister was visiting, and it came up that I hadn't seen it. And she absolutely flipped a lid. She was like, how can you not have seen a few good men? Like, she almost made us turn it on, but then she said she'd prefer to watch something funny. But, like, I'm looking at her filmography again, and it's like, the important. Air quotes, Demi Moore performances of my youth were Ghost, now and then.

Sure. The end. You know, like, those were two movies that were... You're probably too young even for, like, to remember the, like, the indecent proposal sort of era of, like, that being such a, like, hot button discussion topic on, like, talk shows and whatnot. I remember the topic, and I remember... I remember people talking about indecent proposal.

I remember people talking about disclosure. because, correct me if I'm wrong, but Disclosure is a John Grisham book. It sure is. And my mom had read it, and I was very much not allowed to see disclosure when they rented it. As somebody who started reading a lot of John Grisham novels in junior high and high school because of Jurassic Park. And so you start with Jurassic Park and then you read The Lost World. And then it's like, okay, what are my other, or not Grishams, Crichtons. It's Michael Crichton. It's not John Grishol.

Oh, it's Criton. Okay, okay. It's Michael Crichton. But those two guys were, like, you know, fricking frack a little bit in my experience. I got into Stephen King and then I got into John Grishman, Michael Crichton. So Crichton did Jurassic Park in the Lost World. And then you read like the Andromeda Strain and the Terminal Man in Congo, you know what I mean? Like all of these things.

And then you get around to disclosure and you're like, oh, this is not like the other things at all. This is a legal thriller, isn't it? I've still never seen it. It's a legal thriller that is mostly like, what if a woman sexually harassed man, like what would happen there? And yet the plot also has a lot to do with virtual reality because it was in the mid-90s. So like, I'm very, that was the one, uh, where everybody, when I put out the email, because I sort of sent out an email and like, this is the list of all the Demi Moore movies. Let me know which ones you guys would be interested in. And I sent it out to like all of my, you know, sort of, you know, writer friends and podcasters and whatnot. And more than 50% of the responses included in the top three, I want to. to do Disclosure. So I'm going to, yeah, so Richard got the prize there. So Richard Lawson is going to watch Disclosure. Maybe I'll watch it tonight. Maybe. Well, that episode's not going to come out until after the New Year, so you've got some time. But maybe I can watch it over the holidays or

something. Oh, Hunchback in Notre Dame. That was the other one that. I was going to say, you're in the perfect age demo for that. Yeah. That was and is my favorite Disney animated movie. Really? Because you know that that's sort of like notorious for being like so dark. It's a dark, you know, themed Disney. Oh, and I, I, even from the time it was announced, I kind of I, we didn't go

to the theater a lot. As a kid, it was far away. It was like 80 miles away. And so I had to have a good case and I was thrilled that my parents were like, we can go to the theater, we can go to San Antonio on Saturday and see hunchback.

You may as well bring a friend and I brought it my friend Derek and I absolutely loved it. I got the soundtrack afterwards. I had the little children's piano book of it. It's still like, it's a very important movie to me. And that character's music is very important to me despite the fact that DeMey doesn't sing it, which

is kind of like... Right. Right. Yes. There's been a whole thing going through her movies of movies where she plays a singer but doesn't sing movies where she plays a singer and only sings certain songs, which was the case in one crazy summer. So, yeah, it's

kind of all over the place with that. You and I have been texting a bunch this week on the subject of movie ticket stubs. And I uncovered my tin, my little tin of ticket stubs that I found. And a lot of them are from the years between the end of high school and through my college years and my like sort of post college years. And it's amazing how many of those stubs I can remember who I saw the movie with, like what were the, you know, some of them with like what were the circumstances around it like um it's it's it's kind of wild how much sort of like comes back to you when you're prompted in that way it's like yeah the

to hold an old movie stub yes is almost like it activates the brain the same way i guess they say smell does where it's like oh it's a sense that's that really is connected to memory it's like yeah when i hear the name of a movie that i saw in theaters while i was a teenager and even beyond, I will remember where I was on who I saw it with. Yep. Yep. Totally. For sure. And I, and what the other side of that coin is, when I can't do that, it really bothers me.

When I think of a movie, and I'm like, I can't remember where I saw this movie. I'm like, that's bullshit. I don't like that. Like, I got to figure that out. So, um, so where to begin, where to begin, where to begin with this. Okay. So, just sort of the basics

about Ghost, this is her follow-up to a series of sort of not very successful movies in, she did Wisdom with

Emilio Estevez, who was her fiancé at the time. She did a movie called The Seventh Sign, which was this sort of like apocalyptic thriller where she was, it was her first above the title,

solo billing. And then she's a supporting performer to De Niro and Sean Penn in Neil Jordan's We're No Angels. So those are her sort of like late 80s movies. And Ghost sort of comes along and is one of those projects that no one's really entirely sure about. If you check up the like the Wikipedia page and it's like everybody and their brother and sister were considered for these roles. The Swayze role they were considering Harrison Ford, Michael J. Fox, Paul Hogan, which is so funny.

like tell me the exact month that they were planning to make this movie. Right, right, right, right, right. Tom Hanks, Kevin Bacon, Kevin Klein, Alec Baldwin, Tom Cruise. It's so hard to see most of those people. There's maybe like one or two of those people who I could possibly see pulling that off. Do you know what I mean? Maybe, I mean, looking at them now, I think it's like Kevin Bacon maybe. That's sort of what I thought. That's what I thought too. It would have been interesting. Alec Baldwin's a little too sinister, Harrison Ford, no, Michael J. Fox. I think Michael J. Fox is almost too, he's not hunky enough, you know? Definitely not hunky. You need, you need him to be this, like, threatening presence of the Tony Glowling character. You need him to be intimidated by him. I think it's like maybe, it's truly maybe Tom Hanks and Kevin Bacon.

I don't know. Those are the two names that jumped out. A little too silly, a little too funny, especially at the time. I don't know. Cruz and Harrison Ford, I think their star power overtakes it too much. Yeah, totally. And then for the Molly character, Michelle Pfeiffer, Molly Ringwald, Meg Ryan, Julia Roberts, Nicole Kidman were all considered. For Oda Mae Brown, you had Tina Turner, Patty LaBelle, Oprah Winfrey were all considered, which, I mean, talk about, like, you know, sliding doors, right?

I think... And whereas, I think, Sam, the same... Sam options, I think there are so few that would work. But I think all of those Mollies probably would have worked, maybe excluding Mali. Although it's sort of a thankless role, a do-nothing role. And I think all the Oda Mae Browns would have been good. They would have just been so different. They all would have been different in ways that would have worked.

Because Oda is, Oda May is the character that you can tell the writer had the most fun writing. So, like, it's just, it's fun on the page, I guess. Yes. So you listen to, you know, to me talk about it, and she talks about how she wasn't quite sure about it. Bruce Willis has this quote where he turned it down because he didn't understand it, which I can't get enough of movie stars admitting that they didn't take a role because they didn't get it, which in a lot of cases I'm like, all right, like, you know, open the schools. But sometimes, like in this case, I'm like, I do kind of get it. Like it's very concepty. It's very much all the reviews kind of talk about. how it's an amalgam of a bunch of different genres. It's a romance. It's a weepy. It's a comedy. It's a supernatural story. It's supposed to be scary certain times. It's a crime thriller, certain times.

So I do kind of get that. The other thing is, so screenplay by Bruce Joel Rubin, who wins an Oscar for this. We'll talk about the Oscars soon enough. But he had done this movie called Brainstorm in 1983, which start Christopher Walken and Natalie would. And I put a cringe emoji after that because I was like, yeah, yeah. And then a West Craven movie in 1986, he wrote the script for called Deadly Friend. He did an uncredited rewrite on Sleeping with the Enemy, which came out after Ghost. He, I don't know if he's the sole credited writer on Jacob's Ladder, but it's funny because the opening credits to this movie

feel like they're from a completely different movie. Like, the title card comes on. like a jump scare, first of all. It's like, ghost. It's just like, it freaks you out. And then, yeah, he's the sole credited screenwriter on Jacob's Ladder, which I think is just like the only part of this movie of Ghost that reminds me of Jacob's Ladder is that opening. They're like, they're excavating the apartment.

You got the angel statue and like all this sort of stuff. So there's a little bit of that in it. But like in general, I think there wasn't a ton of trust in the writer. And then Jerry Zucker, who's the director, who's the guy from airplane, the guy from top secret. Like, nobody seems to think like he can do, and I, it's a surprise to me every time I watch this, that he pulls it off. Obviously, he seems to have a lot more sort of confidence in the sort of more broadly

comedic Whoopi Goldberg scenes. The movie really does come to life. But, like, even just on a visual level, there are some shots in this that I'm like, that's a really beautiful shot. The mirror shot is, like, stunning. The mirror shot, there's the scene where DeMe, first of all, we're going to talk about this apartment, this loft apartment soon enough. There is a shot where DeMee is post Sam's death at the top of their little staircase to their bedroom, sort of vaulted bedroom area. And she's rolling the jar with the penny in it.

And she's sort of just like, finally just like doesn't give a shit. And she lets it all crash down. And like, that's really, like, kind of gorgeous to look at. There's a couple shots in the street after he gets killed, which I think is Crosby Street, but I'm not entirely positive. Like, it all feels very much, like, my office at the Atlantic used to be right around that area. So I, like, everywhere they go in that area, I'm just like, it's like, I definitely walked down that block before. There are a couple, like, for his sort of, like, low angle shots there that I really like. But so, like, but, like, Zucker's absolutely.

not in any way, you know, um, suited seemingly to this project. I should say that this is the Zucker that did not direct the right wing, uh, anti Michael Moore movie or whatever. Remember that? American Carroll thing? American Carroll, right. Um, I don't know what, the, the apple may not fall far from the sibling tree there, but like, I know that he didn't at least direct that movie. But then it becomes this giant success afterwards, right?

So, like, works out for everybody. Whoopi gets an Oscar. Bruce Jill Rubin gets an Oscar. The movie makes $500 million worldwide. A huge part of why DeMei eventually is going to be able to command the highest salary ever for an actress in a few years. And it's just this kind of unlikely success story. And if you peek into the reviews at the time, there was so. much incredulity, where people were like, I guess if this works for you.

And then I'm watching the movie, and it's not that I don't get it because, and I don't know if you felt this way. So like, chime in. But like, there's stuff in this movie that I'm like, well, that's definitely cheesy. And the effects are really bad and sort of like rudimentary. And even just the way that like it's sort of rendered. I remember at the time being very scared by like the devil ghosts. But like the way that Carl is like sucked into hell is so kind of mom and dad saved the world coded.

You know what I mean? Does that make sense to you? Does that reference make sense to you at all? So like, but then it's paired with this stuff that just undoubtedly works. And so I'm like, well, how much am I going to really like bang this movie for being cheesy in parts? Yeah, it's a movie that. exists in my memory more than it exists in the rewatch. Sure.

Not counting Odomay Brown's scenes and the ending. And it's one of those movies, this category of movie still exists, but it's near and dear to my heart because I'm kind of a sucker in many ways, not just involving movies. But like, and I think audiences broadly are too, it's a movie that sticks the landing in a way that is, even if you are rolling your eyes 70% of the time before it

the ending of this movie with the like Maurice Jarre score which is it's crazy that Maurice Jarre did the score to this with this like beautiful moment that is like objectively a beautiful moment. With this stirring score the unchained melody like is

interpreted again. It comes back. It's just like it is the happy ending that like you are there to see and it's the happy sad ending too because like I Like, I still, I cried a little watching it this time. Like, I don't know how you can not. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

ultimately you're like, eh, kind of a, that's kind of a, that's a weird movie. That's not the greatest movie, but like, why am I crying right now? Right. You got to like, you got to respect it. There's the moment right at the end there where the beam of light sort of announces its presence. And. Demi can finally see him. And he looks like a weird wax painting of a person. But then Whoopi comes in, Otame comes in, and just says, they're waiting for you, Sam. And she has so

much sort of like warmth and wisdom in her voice and the way she says that. And it feels all very hard one from this, you know, sort of where she had come from in this movie and where their friendship had come from. And it's so, it hits. me every single time. Like that much more so than him telling her that he loves her or even like the love inside you take it with you, which is a very cheesy line that works every time I watch this movie. Yeah. But it's that scene with Otame where she says they're waiting for you, Sam, because she's, she just, the delivery is so perfect. And you're right that it's a hard one line too, because I always, I don't, I don't forget this, but I'm always like very, very,

satisfied by Otomay's character revelations where she's a fraudster, but then you find out, her mom wasn't. And you get the sense, and I guess it's, maybe it's just me projecting, or maybe it is in the performance, but it's like, you get the sense that she was always a little jealous of her and, like, wish that she were like her mother. And now that she's got it, she's upset, she hates it, this sucks, but at the end of the movie, she's like, oh, I understand what I'm doing here, you know, like, this is nice. I would never want a sequel to this movie because I'm incredibly anti-unnecessary sequels.

But, like, I would, I sometimes watch this and I think, like, where does Odomay go in the next five years? Does she and Molly stay close? Or is this, like, a fleeting moment that they had and they're sort of going to let each other sort of live their own lives? Does Oda May continue to be, you know? Talk show. She gets a talk show. I think she gets a talk show. Absolutely.

She's perfect for that. Yeah. And they do stay friends, but then Otomay becomes very famous. Right, right, right. And it's just like, oh, well, I haven't, we haven't spoken in six months, but, like, I've been, you know, incredibly busy. And Molly is, you know, now has the confidence to move on and become, you know, a great downtown artist that she is. Okay, so the movie starts off with the apartment. So we're going to talk about the apartment here because I found out where they film it.

First of all, there's a point in the, when she calls, when Molly calls it. calls the cops. And she says, Prince Street between Green and Mercer. And I immediately pulled up my same thing. I was like, oh, it's next to the Apple store. It's right across the street from the Apple store on Prince Street. But you know what? It's also, it's literally a block down from where the first real world house was. Original real world loft, which is on Broadway and Prince. Like, it's one block down. But yeah, so it's like it's Soho. It's super close to the crowds. Street Hotel, so I like, I do feel like it's believable that, um, um, the theater that they see Macbeth at is called like Spring Street Repertory. So, like, it might be on Spring

Street, actually. Okay. But anyway, Soho, which is now, if you don't know, Chaka Block with just, like, Stores. Brahma. It's just, it's, yeah, it's Louie Lemon and, um, uh, Warby Parker and Apple Store and just like stores on stores on stores and Balthasar. Um, so I rewatched After Hours recently again, too, and I was like, oh, and I thought of Ghosts while I was watching After Hours, because I was just like, it's so funny that not even that long ago, this neighborhood that is very definitively and loudly, this one thing used to be a completely different thing, which is the story of New York, but still, it's, it kind of gags me every time. Even in the five years that transpire between After Hours and Ghost, you can already see, it's like, oh, okay, these people, people are moving in. Yeah. And so they have this apartment that they have. They never quite specify where the money is coming from because he works on Wall Street, but is like decidedly mid-level. And she doesn't seem to have a job but for doing art, which makes me feel like she has family money that she like that they do not have to worry about. They never mention it at all. You know as well as I that that is always the answer. There's so many people at that funeral, at that post-funeral, like breakfast or

whatever that they have, where I'm just like, whose family is this? Where did all these people come from? I'm like, clearly like, there's, yeah, she definitely has family money. And because when he dies, she is not even, there is not that it needs to be in there, but there's no line of dialogue about like, are you going to be okay? How are you going to afford this place? Come on. Well, and it's one of, it's that trick that movies pull off where it's like, yes, they have this loft, but it's only so spectacular because they put in the sweat equity to like sledgehammer their way through the walls and discover this vaulted ceiling that they didn't know was there that gives them seven feet more space and they can put the bed up there and they she literally has a line where

she's like, well, have so much more space. And he's like, for what? And she's like for space. I love that line. And then you look at, there's the one point in the thing where they actually like pull back far enough to see just how vast this loft space is where it really does look like a showroom of just and it's like so sparsely appointed so that like you really do feel the space like you really feel how big it is um there's of course like it's a lop so there's like no walls anywhere or whatever um it's i i think about that apartment and then i at the same time think about another a new york city apartment i'm never not thinking about which is the one in three men and a baby i don't know if you've seen three men and a baby as many times as i have no

So they, this is the one, so obviously the premise of three men and a baby, it's these three bachelors who decide to pool their resources. They all have pretty good jobs. One's an architect. One's a sometime cartoonist or whatever. One's a cartoons and one's a semi-successful actor. So they could all afford their own places. But if they pool their resources, this is all barely spoken of in the movie. It's like kind of just like understood.

But, like, they decided, before the movie starts, to pool their resources to get one banger of an Upper West Side, like, penthouse apartment, which is what they did, which is sort of a fantasy that, like, even now could not happen. Even now, if you had that unrealistic scenario, you could never pull it off. But so, and then because, like, one of them's a cartoonist. So, like, he's, like, muraled the, like, the whole thing has murals. And one of them's an architect. one of them's an architect so like Tom Selleck's the architect so he like like you know they retrofitted all of this and so the whole apartment like lays out perfectly they're not on top of each other they have this like complete like bachelor pad slash like party destination the movie starts off with a birthday party and it's like it's massive you know thing or whatever I I never that was the first time that I realized that like if you had a part through watching movies and if you had a penthouse apartment the elevator just opens up right into your living space. And I was just like, oh, my God.

So between that and then this Soho loft that literally is the size of half a football field. And it's, I'm such a sucker for that because, like, as real, unrealistic as it is, I'm just like, yeah, but like, what if it was real? What if? So I'm glad that you also sort of, I knew watching this, I'm like, Bobby will have some thoughts. And it is real, I guess, right? It's a reproduction, the interior, so this is the note that I got from Wikipedia, so you know, it's true. The interior of Sam and Molly's loft is a reproduction of the home and studio of artist Michelle Oka donor, built from plans she provided because she declined to allow filming inside her loft. It was reconstructed in an unused loft nearby in her Soho neighborhood and featured many of the same details as the actual loft, such as radiators around columns, open stairs, and a house-shaped enclosure for the refrigerator.

I don't think we ever see that in the movie, but I'm glad that they made it. There's also the part where they have this giant angel statue that literally looks like they excavated it from ruins in Egypt that, like, as part of the part of the giant angel statue that literally looks like they excavated it from, like, ruins in Egypt that, like, as part. part of like an exorcist movie or something like that. Like in another movie, that thing would have absolutely been haunted. That like, when they do that wide shot of the room, it's just like hanging in the corner. This like, the angel statue is just hanging in the corner. It's really good imagery. And I had honestly, I guess it had been a, I used to watch this movie a lot, but it's been a while since I'd seen it.

And I was, and that's the problem. This movie kind of runs out of gas at some point and then it really grabs up the gas again. Yes. But in those opening moments, like, when they're pulling that angel up the street, I was like, this is kind of stunning. Like, this is, it's a little on the nose imagery, but I still really like it because it's like, what a weird, there are a lot of weird choices in this movie, you know? And it's like, I get it, but it's, well, I don't see this often. If you're listening to this, do the Google map thing. Look up 102 Prince Street.

It's like the exteriors of that are gorgeous. It's one of those things where you're like, you wonder what this street looked like in the 1800s kind of a thing. Like, who lived, you know, what, like, single, you know, aristocratic family, you know what I mean, like, lived in this, what gilded age, Carrie Coon, new money, sort of like, you know, whatever, lived in this, like, giant building. So, yeah, I'm going to be obsessing about that place forever. While we're sort of wading into the movie, I want to talk about the poster as well, this sort of iconic, absolutely iconic poster that was, it was, it was. You know, the same shot for everything, which is Patrick and Demi, in the throes of passion, she's got like, she's, it's, it's the classic, like, bed sheet wrapped around her bosom kind of a thing. And he's, as far as we know, naked, because by the time you get to the bottom of the image, it's like washed out in bright white light. Um, it's just, I don't know, it's, it's, it's sort of indelibly sort of like blazed onto my brain. It's one of those things where it doesn't really tell you anything. about the plot of the movie at all. It's iconic, but it's completely inscrutable.

Completely inscrutable. You would have no idea watching it. And just the dissonance between like a movie called ghost and then like two people about to fuck. It's like, what is this? Like I understand why from the jump you're like, what am I getting into? I will say it's one of those things that I think some people may have interpreted as a flaw in the movie, but I find to be especially nowadays so valuable, which is a movie that sort of takes a break from being what it's about to just be something else.

This is a movie that takes a break to just like, we're just going to have a scene where she's throwing the clay pot and he wakes up and they have this sort of erotic clay molding thing that turns into a love scene, which by the way, magically skips past the part where they both wash their hands off because neither one of them has big goopy clay hands. They need to take a cool, shall one they're like.

Well, they must have at some point because their hands are like completely clean when they're making out. later. So it's that, and then it's like later on when it sort of becomes the like Whoopi Goldberg like popcorn comedy, Rita, Rita Miller, you know, stuff, which I know you and I both love and well, that's my name. Rita Miller. Rita Miller. That's my name. Good old Randy. Get all head on his shoulders. Her shoulders. Her shoulders. Best, best joke in that movie. So I think baseline, I just want to throw that out here. Sam Wheat is the funniest fucking name I've ever heard in a movie ever. It's so every time I hear it, it's just,

it makes me laugh. And I wonder, like, I wonder if they kept it in only because it's funny when Whoopie says it when he is tormenting her. When she finally is like, Sam Wheat. And the sisters go, Sam Wheat, which I also repeat all the time. But like, it so sums up his character. I think all the cheesiest parts of this movie to me are the Swayze parts. I don't think that's like Swayze's fault. I think it's just sort of like his part of the story, everything with him learning to like push things, him just sort of like talking back to Molly during the whole thing. Him singing, I am Henry the 8th I am.

It's all just a little too. Oh, I hate that. I hate it. I do too. It's all just a little too cutesy sometimes, a little too. Goopy, um, he's, his character, the titular ghost is, I think, the weaker part of the movie. We, we guessed part of the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like when he is alone on screen, I like lose interest. When he is basically anytime Whoopi and DeMe are not around, I kind of lose interest. And it's that middle stretch is just rough. Even when he goes and visits Willie Lopez for the first time, it's just, like, oh, my God, it takes forever. I'm just like, yes. I always forget. I get fooled every single time I rewatch this as an adult that, like, oh, the parts I

love about this movie are kind of few and far between, but I love them so, so much, so much. Yes. So you mentioned when he follows Willie Lopez back to his apartment, and this is the last piece of New York City Ephemra that I'm going to bring up, but they make a point to show you the subway signs, and when they do that, I feel like they are opening the door for me to be pedantic about it, so I'm going to. He gets off at the Marcy Street stop on... The Myrtle. It looks like...

The Myrtle stop. Sorry, it's Myrtle stop. On the J, on the J. The iconic stop. Yes. And yet, he goes and walks, walks follows Willie Lopez to his apartment that we find out later, and they give this exact address, is like 303 prospect place. which if you look that up, it is dead in the middle of Prospect Heights. It is in no way walking distance from the Marcy stop. It's a completely different area of Brooklyn. It's a much nicer area of Brooklyn. Everything about that area fits more in with like what Bushwick would have like been back then.

But like, which makes me realize like why give any other address but 303 POSpect Place? I don't understand why they felt like they had to stick by that. It's so annoying. and also like so much of like that image like why not just give me an address that's near one of the elevated trains in like the Bushwick area of Brooklyn because you show the elevated train you want you want the kind of drama and the sounds of the elevated trains you want the death to happen underneath the elevated trains like so give us an address that's not in prospect heights you know what's at 303 prospect place there's a milk bar there's a bagel shop it's like a block away from at least where the ample hills used to be I don't know if ample hills is still there in prospect oh it's still there belt thank God Thank God. They're open late. I walked by like 11 p.m. recently and I was like, I could still get an ice cream.

You're speaking my language. You're speaking my language. I've got to go get more ample hills. So that's always stuck in my crowd. This is not the first time I've looked up that address. Almost pretty much every time I watch this movie, I look up that address. Makes no sense. Because she also later said, she's like, Prospect Place, Willie.

I'm like, evidently not because we've seen where these houses are. Anyway, anyway. So, Carl is their third, sort of, Carl is their friend slash third or should be. So the opening credits, ghost jump scare, they're excavating the thing, and then they cut to a shot of the three of them, sort of three astride. And Demi's in her, like, you know, tank top, you know, face masks because there's dust everywhere, Sledgehammer, Swayze's in clothes, and then Carl is not.

Carl is just, not only just shirtless, but like six-pack snapped to attention. Like, he lit for the six-pack. One million, like, there is a key light that is fully right on the six-pack. And he's flexing without it making it look like he's flexing. He, I gasped Bobby, because this is the other thing. Ghost is one of those movies that's on TV all the time. I've seen it probably 17 times, but I've never, I've seen maybe the first scene twice, three times, something like that. Oh, yeah, you come in the middle.

Yeah. I always come in, or at the very least sort of like earlyish enough, but like certainly past that point. So I, they show that shot and I gasp and I immediately like grab for my phone to like take a screenshot of it. Just like take a photo of my camera of my TV so I can send it to you and everybody I know. and just be like Tony Goldwyn in 1990 was ruining lives or like absolutely one of the hottest characters of the 90s and he like started the decade off of the bang you know like it was like damn legitimately this is what we're in court's like ultimate nepo case by the way who's like of the goldwin of the MGM gold wins could not be more like ensconced within the royalty we don't care don't care he gets a pass 100% do not care. So, Ghost is a movie I was aware of when it was new. I was 10 years old when it came out. I probably saw it when I was 11 because I would have watched it on, like, video.

Yeah. But I remember, I distinctly remember a weekend where, so our grandparents lived upstairs from us. And so I remember a weekend where, like, my aunts and uncles all came over because they were painting the apartment upstairs. And so they all came over and they all sort of like crashed at the house or whatever. and they left the kids up to our own devices and they just handed us a stack of videotapes from video factory and we're like just like keep yourselves amused or whatever and so Ghost was one of the movies we watched

and I remember getting so scared because of the mugging like the mugging scared me more than anything I was for years just assumed like somebody was going to jump out of the shadows on my block and like and you know kill me but so Oh, so I'm like 11. I famously came out after college.

So like, but like, you know, you realize these things early. And I clearly now looking back, remember at the very least a fascination and fixation on not that scene, but the one that you have screen grabbed and is now behind you in your Zoom, which is the scene after the death where Carl already we know is a bad guy. And he comes over to manipulate. like Molly, and but in doing so, spills coffee on his shirt on purpose and takes off his shirt to what end? To what? Unclear. Yeah.

To like, I guess to seduce her because that, well, he wants to, like, but like, it's so, she will forget about her dead husband and her crazy, cookie ideas if she looks at this body. Like, that's what he's thinking. It's so crazy. He's not entirely wrong is the thing. My letterbox review from last night, I literally was like, I would let 1990 Tony Goldwyn murder more than just my boyfriend. Like, I, I, I, I, I, he's so fucking hot in this. I sound like such a, like, teenager when I, but like, again, that's what it brings me back to.

I'm 11 years old. I'm watching this guy take his shirt off. And I'm like, I'm so, like, interested in this scene. What is going? Like, I don't understand it. What is this? Yeah. It's such a funny scene.

And he is so. obviously evil. And it's also one of the, again, like, there really, there really isn't even that much Demi in this movie. And it's like, it's a, it's a, it's one of the best Demi. It's a great Demi scene, too. Here's my thing with Demi. I'll do, I'll do my Demi spiel now. One of the most interesting things about doing this particular project, especially the way that I'm doing it, where I'm watching them in order and I'm not watching ahead, is I'm really sort of experiencing this career as it goes along. And maybe the most striking part was watching Ghost last night.

And from the very first second she's on screen, it's like she has taken the leap from her previous films to this. And it's just in the way she holds a scene, the way she holds the camera, the way she, you know, like the way she interacts, the way she is absolutely sort of like, in charge without really even being asked to do anything. Every single time the camera is on her face, she's obviously like renowned for all these, like these crying scenes where she doesn't sob. She just sort of blinks and like the tears are going down her face. But like it's the phrase like the camera is in love with her is a cliche,

but it's like it's the most true cliche. Like some people just sort of hold that camera better than others. And it's, It was astounding to me, thinking from, like, the previous movie to this one, how it's just like, oh, it's like the decade changed. And it's like, oh, now she is like a star, like, absolutely. Yeah. The haircut, the all of it. But even if it's just like the way that she, like, interacts with the two guys when they're just sort of like demolishing the ceiling and whatnot, it's just like, oh, you've, you've absolutely arrived.

and it's thrilling. It's like, there's not very much thrilling about her character in this movie. So, like, I was so glad that I had that aspect of it because it was just like, oh, shit. Like, this is a real, you know, again, cliche, star is born kind of a moment. And you really get where this sort of kick started an incredible decade for her, for her career. Yeah, and having watched a few good men, which I don't have to linger in because I know you're going to do that soon. but it's like, oh, so recently, I saw so, I almost saw like ghosts turned up, you know, like I saw Demi Ghosts turned up a notch and I was like, oh, this is fascinating because I see Ghost so many times, but it's so funny to watch a movie that was filmed right after she got mega famous from this huge kind of surprise hit and is, you know, holding her own really, truly a co-lead in this huge star-studied cast. Like, this was, like you said, this is a movie that proved something to a lot of people.

Yes, I think that's right. So, um, the, the, the Unchained Melody scene happens. By the way, that's the other thing about experiencing this movie, sort of when it was new. You don't know how big that song got, like this revival of Unchained Melody, where it was everywhere. They played it on the radio, like everybody's parents, like, bought whatever CD they could find with, like, that song on it, our, whatever grade I would have been in at the time, which would have probably been six, fifth grade, something like that. At our, like, we had music recitals on a, that was just like our music class or whatever. Like, we would just sing a bunch of songs

as like a, as a class. And so that was one of them. And I remember distinctly, I had seen Ghost at least once or twice. And I knew how this song went. And of course, when you do a children's choir, like a, like a, you know, sixth grade chorus rendition of it, you're not singing it like the righteous brothers. You're singing, and I remember very simply but just like, oh, my love, my darling, I'll be touch. Along will be time. And it was just like, and I remember thinking, even at the time, like, this is wrong. This is not how that song goes. It's a lot, it goes a lot different than this. And I was, I remember that. at last night. And I remember thinking, that's the first, like, I, I'm realizing now, I would have

been a horrible fit for the kids' bop era of things. I would have absolutely rejected, rejected kids'bop because it would not have sounded right. And so that memory all came flooded back to me. But so. I remember the first time I, like, the moment I watched it as an adult for the first time, since maybe years and years ago, after like a long period of not having seen it. And I watched it and I was like, oh, this is a stupid observation, but I was like, oh, because it always, I associated unshained melody with this movie, knowing that it was a popular song that existed well before this movie. And I kind of thought of it as just sort of like, oh, they liked the song, they put it at the

movie and it became, you know, iconic because of it. But I had never really paid attention to the lyric that is like, 100% the only reason that it is the song, I've hunkered for your touch. And I was like, oh, there's a meaning there that is so obvious that I'd never picked up on. That is like the reason he was like, it must be this song. It can't just be another classic song from however many decades ago, you know? Right, right. Because it's, it's thematic to where it goes later. The other connection, though, is so the righteous brothers were these two guys, Bobby Hatfield, and Bill Medley.

So Bill Medley is the guy opposite Jennifer Warren's in I've had the time of my life from Dirty Dancing. So like genre-wise, that song just feels like a connection, a connective tissue to dirty dancing with Swayze. But like it, like very literally, it's the same, you know, one of the same vocalists from that. So that's also, um, really interesting thing. Yeah, yeah. I remember weirdly at the time watching an episode of Cheers, the Kirstie Alley years, where I can't remember who's her boyfriend at the time, but it's not Sam. And she's talking about how, like, this guy did this, like, very romantic gesture for her, and he got the other righteous brother to sing for her. And she keeps referring to not the guy by name, but, like, the other, you know, I've always always.

wanted to be sung at by the other righteous brother. It's like the Seinfeld, the other guy, the other... Right, the three-tenters. The other guy. I think the best thing about it being unchained melody, though, to me is

like Maurice Jarre freaked it with his like orchestral version of this. It's, it's like a, it's a movie where you wonder why he accepted the job. Although I did also listen, I watched Wolf for the first time this week, and that was

scored by Ennio Morricone, and I was like, what were these iconic mid-century composers doing in the 90s? They were just really taking whatever they could get and freaking it every single time. I mean, it's so sad that they're gone. I know. I watched that movie for the first time earlier this year. Wolf is insane. Absolutely insane. Mild. Mouris Jarre, we should, she should say if listeners don't know, Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Javago, what are his other, like, those are like the two sort of. Those are the two big ones that I think of. The two big ones. But, like, I'm looking at his Wikipedia page now. Witness and Passage to India. Oh, he won the Oscar for Passage to India, I believe. I'm sure. I'm sure. Fatal Attraction, Dead Poet Society. He won three Academy Awards for Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Javago, and Passage to India. So there we go.

His little lean trilogy. Yes, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, incredible score and, like, incredibly evocative. So beautiful, except when it gets very late 80s, early 90s, all the stuff that's synthesizer and kind of electronic is like, not only bad, it's terrible. And it really, it destroys the scenes that it is featured in, I think. Like, I'm never going to be super captivated by the scenes of somebody in front of a Tandy 1000 computer or whatever, dealing with what happened to the money that got liquidated from this account or whatever. But the score doesn't help. So Sam and Molly go to see Macbeth at the Spring Street, whatever, repertory theater. On the way out, he gets mugged. The mugger shoves Molly, which causes Sam to defend her honor. In the scrum, he gets shot. He's dead.

His spirit lingers because Molly is like, don't leave me, Sam. I love that part of it. He was just like, he probably would have just gone, but she said, don't leave me, Sam. and now he's stuck in this, like, mid-level hell where he can't, you know, move on. Finds out that he's dead from an old man ghost in the hospital, which I also love. Classic, like, definitely have seen that guy in other things. I think he was in Luke who's talking. Finds out he's dead, can't do anything about it, sort of mopes around about it for a while.

And then Willie Lopez breaks into the apartment just when it seems like Sam is going to figure out how to walk through the door, which I also like that scene. Decides to follow Willie Lopez back to the Myrtle stop and finds out, the sees that Willie Lopez has stolen the wallet, so he knows that Molly's in danger girl. So goes to like the closest, the first thing he sees on the street, essentially, which is Otomay's storefront, spiritual advice. And that's when the movie sort of hits the other gear. Whoopie is introduced.

She's a total sham. Sam knows that she's a total sham, but she can hear him when he's, like, snarking at her. And the Sam Wheat scene that I mentioned before is so fucking funny. Sam Wheat? And then so that, so yeah, so he tries to get her to warn Molly, the Molly-you-endanger Girl scene, which it's so funny to see, like, this movie sort of like, there is the strain of the like sassy black lady you know what i mean kind of a thing but like whoopies always sort of owned that kind of stuff in a way that you never really feel like

it's tropey or you know sort of taking a shortcut it's just sort of like it's just like let whoopi be whoopi she's and that's kind of what that's how that scene reads to me too where it's like you please read it word for word and she's like he wants me to repeat this word for word Word for word. But actually, I'm just going to be Whoopi Goldberg right now. Like, it's, it's such a, everything she says from there on out is like perfection. It's perfect. The scene where she's down on the street yelling up to Molly, hey Molly, and the guy's yelling at her and she goes, you want to kiss my butt.

And then she does my favorite line, which is, I'm going to count your three and I'm going to leave. One, three. I, it's a, the movie is also smart enough. I think, and, and yeah, it's just, I'll start that over. The movie is also smart enough to, like, not exactly, not make her entirely this unwilling participant in, like, helping to save the life of a rich white lady, like, in Manhattan. Because there comes a moment where she's like, hold on, this is about a murder, you guys are out of your mind, I'm not doing this. Like, I appreciate that she, when she finds out what they want from her, she's like, absolutely not. I don't want to be involved in this.

Like, I'm not going to risk my life for you. And then, unfortunately, has already gotten wrapped up into it. Like, I like that she is, she is introduced as smart as, if not smarter than everyone else in this movie. Yes. Oh, yeah. And certainly much savier. And, but yeah, you're right. There isn't the sort of beatific, like, you know.

Like, sure, I'll help you. What else do I have going on? Right, right, right. Right. Right. Right. But you're right. Then all of a sudden, she's in too deep.

I like that during the course of this movie, there are like multiple times where Sam is like, just do this one thing for me and then I promise I will leave you alone. And then like two scenes later, he's like, Odomay, Molly's in trouble. We got to save her again. And she's like, oh, my God. So the movie kind of loops around on itself for a few times

where like Molly believes her and then something happens where Molly doesn't believe her. And Stephen Root shows up as a cop. and shows her Oda May's file and including that one like phenomenal photo of her from New Orleans where she's got like the big afro and she looks amazing. So that kind of feels like a little repetitious. That was the part where Ebert finally like blew up in the Siskel and Ebert episode on this where he's like, how many times is she going to have to get told that like she knows about the sweater that she wore to Montego Bay or whatever that's so true. he had like but jean's point also too was like if i told you those things you would rightly not believe me because that kind of stuff isn't real so like i it's like jean also had a point the two of them were were very funny um at one point at the end of it roger just sort of like completely shades jean

and is like you're a sucker for any movie where love lasts beyond the grave and jean is just like me and everybody else in america yeah my friends so it was a good one um So, ultimately, Carl gets revealed as the bad guy. Carl is trying to get the account numbers so he can launder money for the mom. His, like, access code, yeah. Right. He's in too deep. He didn't, he didn't mean for Willie Lopez to kill Sam.

So, like, but, like, he's still, then he, like, is like, I'll slip Molly's throat. So it's like, well, what was the point of soft? The whole thing where he didn't mean to kill Sam, if you're just going to have him, you know, be willing to, like, murder Molly. Like, are you trying to make us feel a little bit bad for him or not? Yeah. So whatever. I think that kind of stuff is sort of handled a little bit clumsily. Talk about the Vincent Ski-Avelli stuff.

So we get this interlude with the guy on the train. Sam ends up on the subway. And he says, and something that I'd never noticed before, this weird and, uh, I don't even want to call it a plot hole, but it's something that bugged me. And when she runs into Vincent Skiyvelli and he says, you're on my train, get off my train, and basically threatens to kill him, which is sort of like, the stakes of this, I don't get this. I don't get this. I don't understand why this guy is scary.

He can't do anything to you. You're dead. That's annoying one. But then he says, get off my train. And then it cuts to the train arriving at Willie's stop. And Patrick's still on the train and just gets off right behind him. And I was like, well, where did you go? like if you just go far enough to one side

that the guy doesn't realize you're there anymore but when he finds him again to learn his little secret power I I love the part of him breaking the glass of cigarettes and breaking down in front of the cigarettes

and being like oh if I just had one more drag I just wish had a drag like that part is very iconic to me I think it's such a great moment But that whole sequence really bothers me because there's no, there's really no imaginative, like, there's something original or imaginative in that scene where it's sort of like, as someone who typically is annoyed when a movie like this creates rules that it ultimately ends up breaking and can't keep up with, I would prefer not to give us rules in the first place, which is what this movie does. So I'm kind of talking out two sides of my mouth here, but I... I don't think his learning curve, well, I'll say that again, I don't think his sort of learning experience is satisfying at all, because he can suddenly do it. Like, there doesn't, there's no tension in any of that. And again, the stakes are so, not counting Maldi's death and Otamay's

death, like, the stakes for him are so low and strange. It's also like, how does he learn to finally move things? It's this very sort of like... Concentrate? typical like you have to just like feel your feelings and like it's very much like the force or whatever like you have to just sort of like gather up your hatred or whatever and everything that you're feeling crunch it into your gut and then let it explode out or whatever and yet like but then once he gets the hang of it he can do it all the time do it so right so he can he can you know he really like gets to gets to terrorizing like old carl and willie um i do like the scene where he goes back to find Vincent Skiyvelli, and he's just sort of like poking his face into the subway car as it goes

along to, like, look for him. That's funny to me. I think generally, I just think Vincent Ski-Vell is a very compelling character actor. I like him. I like the way he sort of like yells at him in this movie. And also the thing, after he breaks the cigarette machine and he sort of like freaks out, or it says the thing about, I just wish I had one more drag. He also, you also get the sense that like, oh, he's, like, mentally unbalanced and he probably killed himself, and, um, and then there's, and then Sam's just like, got to go, bye. And it's like, okay. It's an interesting thing that the movie doesn't, I guess, have time to explore where it's, it suggests it enough, but you do kind of get the sense that he's, he's stuck there by choice, you know, where he doesn't,

he, he obviously didn't get pulled away by those demons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he, he, also didn't seem to want to go up into the white light either. He'd just rather stalk a subway because he has this sort of traumatic end that he met. All right. So when I peek back in at Otamay and her talk show years, I'm also going to find out where the train guy is.

Absolutely. I hope so. I hope so. I hope he likes the new versions of the subway cars. I hope he's like ridden on one of the new A trains. RIP, Vitsyn Skiy you would have loved the new A train. He died so long ago. I was on his I Ndb last night. I was like, I know. I know. I was dead for 20 years. So then we get to the best parts of the movie, which is Sam finds Odomay again,

because Molly is once again in danger. And all of a sudden, Odomay's gift is popping. She can hear everyone. She's the hottest ticket in Brooklyn. All of the spirits are in her little parlor, jockeying for position to try and talk to their loved ones. And at least business is good. I hope she's making a lot of money because now of a sudden she's not cheating anybody anymore. for real. But she's like kind of had it. We, Sam needs help, but she's like, hold on. And the people are getting restless. And finally, Orlando, one of the spirits, Orlando, jumps into Otameh, unbeckoned and without permission, which is, is from an adult perspective, you're just like, oh, God, this is a horrible violation. So Oritia, his wife, is waiting. I love the little touch that she's like, she needs

to know where the, uh, insurance documents are, whatever. That's, that's why she came for this very sort of practical purpose. Um, but it's the scene that my sister and I, um, have for our entire lives repeated to each other, which is, uh, Ortisha, where, or Tisha, where you at? I can't hardly see. Um, and she goes, Orlando, is that you? And then you finally sees her. And this is the most, I will freely admit it's the most black scent I have ever done in the course of my life is just repeating this line

over and over and over again when Whoopi looks at him and she just goes damn, baby, what do you do to your hair? It's Autumn Sunrise. Or Tisha, it's, so this is the thing, this is the one that I've screencaptons right behind it because it's not just that she says it's Autumn Sunrise, it's the way her hands are like,

Orlando, do you like it? It's Autumn Sunrise. It's such a good line. It's such a good line. It's such a good delivery. It's so silly, while also delivering an extremely important plot point, which is that when ghosts jump into people, they emerge, winded and wasted and completely useless and do not have their gifts anymore. Yeah. So it's kind of a perfect scene, actually. It is.

For being an interlude. And then this all leads to Sam needs whoopee to get out her fake ID machine. to make a fake ID of Rita Miller because through various Carl machinations he needs to fuck up Carl's scheme by this by the way

helps Molly none. This is just to sort of fuck over Carl. It does actually, it's like a whole lot of time wasted just to antagonize actually Carl. Which makes Molly less safe. Yeah. But he's so like they don't really ever linger on that emotionally

that like this is really irresponsible of Sam, partially because it's such a fun scene to watch that, like, we don't care. No, but also, I mean, I'd never really thought about it until this watch either. It's like, if you want Carl to go away, give him what he wants. Right. Because if Carl gets the money he wants, he would stop pounding money. Right. And instead, or, and instead, it's like, it just pisses him off more and ultimately leads to the

conclusion of the movie, which is like a lot of violence and Carl's, like, disgusting death. I don't know why this is what his priority. Puts Molly's life in danger, puts Oda Mae's life in danger. They both almost get killed. Sam, of course, is already dead. So, like, he's impervious to all this. Exactly. His life is never in danger.

So he risks nothing. The only people who come out on top are the nuns. The nuns who get $4 million for doing jack-all for standing there on the corner in downtown fucking Wall Street or whatever. Why didn't he let Odomay have some of that money? It doesn't make any sense. There's no reason for her not having it. Sure as fuck earned it. She sure as shit earned that money.

Like, I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it so much. She's right. Those nuts can't even buy underwear. It's blood money. And it's like, okay, we'll do some good with it and improve this woman's life who is helping you with every little thing you could possibly work from her.

Well, that's the one thing they at least have Odomay say. which is so funny, is after finally he's like, they know about the check, they're coming to kill you. She's like, the check that you told me to give away so that I wouldn't be safe. She's like, that check, you fucking asshole, I could have had this money this whole time and been in exactly the same amount of danger. So, but the Rita Miller scene specifically, everything from the costumes to the sort of the setup of it to every single line.

reading whoopey does in that entire sequence from the second she shows up as Rita Miller to when she like like gives Sam the Raspberry at the end as she's walking away from him she's walking away like a linebacker too and so funny she's so ill-fitting in this like fancy little like you know suit and but it's this like electric magenta like ensemble she's wearing with like unnecessary like lace on lacework on the top of it. It's so strange. Acutramat.

She's wearing sort of like a funereal veil a little bit, but she's, but like all the colors are like so bright. She signs Oda Mae Brown on the check. And then that's my favorite part. She signs her name and then she goes, I'm getting to need another one. I sign the wrong name. I sign the wrong name. And it like, to me, this scene is like, and I love that they happened so close to

each other, this is. this is the Marissa Tomei witness stand scene. Totally. This is pos attraction. Yeah, yeah. This is the part of the movie where not only does the performer win their Oscar, but they remind you that like, oh, this movie basically hinges on them. Like this movie belongs to them.

And it's like every time you watch it, you're thrilled. You're like, I kind of had to like wait. made through the mud of the second act of this movie to get here, but I'm like, I'm out and triumphant. I'm like, I've never been happier than to see what the Goldberg say, um, tens and 20s, you know, like, it's, it's so, it's so funniest fucking line. Just the way she reacted, 10s and 20s. And the way that she improvs about like, as oh, no one has, no one has asked about the provenance of this $4 million. The banker wants her out of there and she's like, oh, grandma like made money in the oil wells and it's just like no one needs you to do this it's so

grandma made money in the oil wells and then my mom invested in gas pumps because you know those gas stations have like six or eight of those and it's so she's you're right she can't she's really actually really good at improvising oda may brown probably should have gone to like uh uh you know UCB or something like that used some of the use so funny she could have used some of that four million for that. Sam. Sam Wheat. Dumbass fucking hick name. Sam's, I would love to know what Sam's whole deal is. Like, we don't ever find out because he dies, of course, early on. But like, he's a virtuous bore. That's it. He's got nothing. He's got nothing. But is he like an Ivy League guy? Or did he like go to like Midwestern state school and then just like go to the big city in New York? and like, I don't know, man. I think the only indicator we get from that is his armchair, but that's also like, that doesn't really say that much.

It's sort of like, I come from a normal family from a home where, like, dad had just a good, worn-in armchair. Remember when armchairs were like the shorthand for, um, uh, not exactly blue collar, but like, you know,

Frazier too. Frazier. Friends. Uh, a ghost. So many things where it's just like, So long as somebody has a bark-a-lounger or some sort of ratty, beat-up chair that they won't get rid of. It also reminded me, because it's a year later, of the wagon wheel coffee table when Harry Met Sally.

Oh, when Harry Met Sally. Because it's the same thing of just like, didn't we have this discussion? Weren't you going to get rid of this? It's so ugly. So I did enjoy that. Also, the other thing, though, is Molly, you have five acres. of square like footage here in your law like just like put it in a corner that you'll never go into what does she say well i'm going to paint it it's like what yes how is that a solution to this

problem no it's absolutely not a solution to this problem um sorry molly you are in danger girl do you think she got rid of that the second he was in the ground she's so sad she's so mopey she misses everything about him but do we ever see that chair again you it the movie sort of leads you to believe that it's gone because if yeah and I don't know that she got rid of it when he was in the ground I think she got rid of it before he died because you would think that if it were still there there would be a shot of her sitting in it sitting in it rubbing it and being close to him yes but that never happened I don't think it's in there and I she got I wasn't really looking for it but she defeated that chair she absolutely defeated that chair she lost a boyfriend and a chair

yes nuts out yeah so the worst thing in the world happens Sam makes Odomay give up four million but in the process Molly sees her there and like blows the whole operation so now Carl knows and now once again Carl's on a murderous rampage and Sam has to once again go say to Otame come upheave your life or whatever because now you're you're going to get killed again and then Willie opposed to her place with a gun and then Sam who still has magical the thing shoving powers terrorizes Willie into running out into the street and he gets T-boned by the car

and this is the one Carl's death is so cartoony Willie's death is the scarier one because you see less and it's just those wailing little Ms. Pac-Man figures that were so scary to me when I was little because of the sounds they made were so awful and shadowy and whatnot

So you don't have got to worry about Willie anymore, R-A-P Willie. And then it's back to the apartment where they're kind of waiting for Carl to show up. Yeah, it's pretty scary, actually. It's pretty scary. And in the meantime, they're like, but we could kind of freak dance for a while. And so Odomay has a moment of generosity and is like, before I change my mind, you can jump into my body. and I'll make out with your girlfriend. And he's like, cool.

And he doesn't like try to talk her out of it. And he's like, so they dance. The movie makes the not surprising, but still notable decision to show Swayzee dancing with Dimee, which makes sense on a like, you don't cast Patrick Swayze and Dime more and not have them do this scene together. But in my mind, all I'm thinking of is,

if I was looking in the window, Oh, this would just be like, whoopey and to me, like, have a romantic moment. And, like, that's, and Ebert was the one who said this in Siskel and Ebert, where he's like, that's the more interesting scene is to watch it sort of play out without, you know, that filter or whatever, and to have the two women dancing. And I think Roger just wanted to watch two ladies dancing together. And you know what? Beyond the Valley of the Dolls wins out sometimes for Roger, and that's fine. the the Russ Meyer devotee in him sort of

that happens in Heart and Souls which steals this moment what three years later great movie alfrey woodard jumps into Robert Denny Jr's body to hug her son that she hasn't seen since he died now adult son and the joke of the scene

it's like swelling beautiful human swelling beautiful music but it's Robert Downey Jr. hugging him, like, and caressing him like a mother would and saying, I mean, I've seen that movie one billion times on my favorite movies all the time, but he whispers as Robert Downey Jr. into the grown man's ear, I never left you. But like doing kind of like an effeminate Alphrey Woodard voice. And it's, it's both funny and sweet. So it's like, that movie is proof that you can be both things at once. Like it is still a moving moment. You know, it's a good movie. Heart and Souls. Heart and Souls. Good movie.

Heart and souls. Perfect. Incredible. Incredible movie. A better movie than ghost. Who's his girlfriend in that? Elizabeth Shoe, you hardly ever see her? Oh, Elizabeth Shoe, yeah. Yeah, Kira Cedric is the one you sort of wish. Yeah.

It's a weird relationship there because he's initially... Chiracric has a crush on him as an adult, for sure. She does have a crush on him as an adult. This was during the era where Robert Downey Jr. kept being in movies where, like, there were weird adult child blend stuff because he was also in that movie, chances are, where he ends up. being the reincarnated version of Sybil Shepard's husband? Sybil Shepard's. Right.

Wild. Okay. A plus Cher song. Share and Peter Sateras, after all, is from that movie. Anyway, so they dance. And then Carl shows up at the exact wrong time, because now Sam is depleted, and the women have to go on the run. And I do like the sort of sisters are doing it for themselves, nature of this, like, final

thing, where they're like, we just have each other to rely on, and we're going to make sure that we're, you know, that we're okay. And ultimately, yes, Sam does kind of save the day. But I don't know. I feel like Molly, this is where I feel like Molly and Otame really bonded in that moment. Yeah. And I can see why you mentioned the sequel thing, because there's a, there's a nugget of a thing there, like the Demi and Whoopi relationship. And it feels, and you don't realize how under-exported it is until right at the end of the movie. And you're like, right, I look. Okay. I'm sorry. The cat keeps moving. I was, I can, I normally can't see the cat because you have the background image.

So it does sometimes look like you're just sort of like fighting with a ghost, which is kind of appropriate. Which is appropriate. Yeah. So Carl dies by a giant shard of falling window pain impaling him in the chest. Oh, it's awful. Which I've also. So many things about this movie were indelible in my mind, multiple ones involving Tony Goldwyn's chest. This was the not as fun one, where I always remember the way Tony Goldman dies in this movie. It's horrifying.

It's horrifying. And then he gets, like, sucked into a portal butt first, kind of, because, like, you only see his, like, arms and legs in front of him being, like, it looks like he's being sucked into, like, a hose, but, like, sort of, like, from the butt where, like, oh, just, like, he's sort of being, like, you know, if your hand goes like this, and it's just like, the little demons love to have fun with their, you know, new members. They, they try something new. They get up to their tricks. Willie had a different, really had a different experience than Carl, you know. They love messing with people. They love messing with people. They always

have. Um, so, uh, I love also, you know who's always so having fun with people is heaven. Because heaven's like, well, now that all that danger's over, we're going to call Sam, doors open again. We've come back for Sam. Well, I, well, isn't also, I mean, what do I know? I'm not the Oscar winning screenwriter of Ghost. But does he, does he, doesn't he decide? Like, isn't there something like Patrick, Patrick, Patrick Swayze, sorry, Sam has now completed his task. And I'm, I'm willing myself to, like, open that door again. Like, that's kind of how I've always interpreted. The movie doesn't lay down these rules being concrete, which is good. But yes, you do get the sense because, like, how many ghost stories about this very thing,

which is a ghost has unfinished business and still just struggling with a ghost? No, it's amazing. I'm just like watching Bobby Fendoff, an invisible man. The idea that, like, oh, ghosts are around because they have unfinished. business. And so that's sort of like the thing that like, unless you tell somebody differently, that's what sort of an audience is going to assume. Sure. Casper. As all things, I compare this to Casper. Doesn't Kathy Moriarty get turned into a ghost at the end of Casper? Don't we see like ghost Kathy Moriarty? And we hear Kathy Moriarty and Kathy Moriarty's iconic voice saying, I have no unfinished

business. That's why I'm thinking about it because it's very iconic to me. Oh, right. And that's why she gets like zapped away or whatever. They use that. Bill Pullman uses that as a to get rid of the ghost by her proclaiming that she has no unfinished business and then, you know, the afterlife says, you're done, Bill Coleman, he outsmarted the ghost. Exactly. So, yeah, so you do get the sense that, like,

well, now Sam has ensured Molly's safety and, you know, sort of given her closure. Yeah. And she's crying these perfect tears. And again, sob, sobless tears. and he looks like a somebody did a painting of him

in like shimmer shimmer paint and they're waiting for you Sam and I'm crying at this point but like tastefully I'm not like inconsolable because I've seen this movie a billion times and he goes up to heaven this movie is very non-committal about like what awaits after

but like clearly like they're a little like creepy little dark Ms. Pac-Man ghosts and then there is like Beatific heaven that is rendered as like little orbs of light. So he's going to the orbs of light and is that the end? There's nothing, there's no post-script, right? No, it just, it fades and we get into the credits. Right, right. He walks into that light and then you see Demi again and she's crying, but then it cuts back to him walking further into the light, yeah.

Right. So, um. And you're crying. And you're crying. And there's a thing. And America said, yeah. America said, yeah, I will. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And seconds. Um, opened number two behind ironically, die hard two. Uh, Bruce beat to me. But the next weekend, Ghost jumps it. And so Ghost spends ultimately four days. different weeks at number one, none of them consecutive. It keeps like falling back and then jumping forward.

Spins 19 weeks in the top five of the box office, which is one of those things that, like, you never get tired of talking about how that kind of thing just does not happen. Nope. 19 weeks in the top five, 22 total weeks in the top 10. It is ultimately the number two. It's one of those things because Box Office Mojo does the dumb thing. where unless you adjust it for in-year releases, it tells you what was the number one movie

based on money made during that year. So in that sense, Ghost is the number one movie of 1990 in that in the year 1990, it made more money than any other movie. Got it. Among movies released in 1990, Home Alone makes more. But even still, ending up number two, like, that's how we, that is the common conception of number one movie of the year is like so home alone is number one ghost is number two that's

pretty damn good um the rest of the box office top five that year dances with wolves is number three again the oscar winner being the number three obviously like oppenheimer you know uh sort of harkened back a little bit to the days where like a top 10 movie could be an oscar winner um dances with wolves number three pretty woman number four teenage mutant ninja turtles number five all movies I watched multiple times when I was a kid. Even Dances with Wolves, which you would think I would have no interest in as just like child, but I absolutely remember at least a couple of times watching dances. Yeah, me too.

Pretty Woman was the one that my parents, my mom kept away from us the longest because there was inappropriate content in that. So Pretty Woman never really became like a movie of mine kind of as a result. You know what I mean? We have the exact same experience with Pretty Woman. I didn't watch it until I was like 18, 19, and I was like, oh, this is good. Yeah. The Rock Set song is very important to me.

I loved that song. My mom had this. I knew Pretty Woman mattered a lot to my mother. She loved it. She had the soundtrack in her car. Not always, but there was a period, I guess, in the early 90s where she had the tape, when she had a tape deck. And then eventually it was no tape deck. But I remember.

like asking to rewind it because I love that song. I don't know that my mom like read into it, but I think she was like, okay, I love that song. Like, that's why I have the tape, you know, listen, my favorite musical artist as a kid were Roxette and the Cranberries and Paula Abdul, and there was nothing, nothing to be gleaned from that at all. Perfect. Pretty Woman's one of those things, though, to the point where I would learn later that people had this shorthand with like big mistake, huge, like that whole kind of thing, where I, knew that was a thing and I knew it was from Pretty Woman, but I had no concept of how Julius says it in the movie because I just didn't watch it more than maybe one time. You know what I mean? So the Pretty Woman people, I honor your experience. I just don't share in it. Five Oscar nominations. It's sort of seen as the like a little bit the unworthy one in the best picture field. It's the sort of populist

the um i'm trying to think of what would be like another example that's more recent but like um i don't know just sort of like a very mainstream kind of a you know you're only there because you made a ton of money and yeah yeah which i guess was rarer when there were only five right uh dances with wolves wins so many things that year um the actor director

was riding high the concert of the, yeah. So, right, Goodfellas, Godfather Part 3, which was also sort of seen as a little bit of a dubious Best Picture nominee because most people were like, this is in no way as good as the first two, which it's not, but I also like Godfather. I don't mind Godfather 3. It's fine. It has the funniest ending. Like, it's, like, it's for something that ends with murder, it's so funny the way I say this all the time and I've said this on the podcast multiple times, but Sophia Coppola gets shot and you don't realize it at it, first and all of a sudden, Patino looks over to her and he sees the blood on her dress and she

drops to her knees and she just goes, dad, in this very like California like girl, like making absolutely no effort to be a character at all. She just goes, dad? And then is dead. And there's a moment after that, which, because the whole thing is, it takes place on the steps of an opera house. So it has an excuse to be very operatic. Petino does the thing where like he breathed breathlessly screams for like a minute and a half, but then there's also the part after that where Talia Shire, who has kind of been at odds with Michael Corleone through most of that movie because she's been supporting her son, Andy Garcia in his efforts to sort of like take over the family. She sort of, now that Mary is dead, she sort of stoops over by her brother and she

like lifts up her scarf and puts it over her head and now it's like a funereal veil. And it's so dramatic. It's like the queerest thing in that movie, and I love it so goddamn much. It's so fun. I've never seen Awakenings, but that's the other one on here. I should see Awakenings. I may or may not have seen Awakenings. I remember virtually nothing. It's a Penny Marshall movie, so I should see it because I have great loyalty to Penny Marshall. It's also, it's telling that this is one of those years where only three of the Best Picture Nominees get best director nominations, and the two that don't are the two, like, it's the two comedy directors making dramas. So it's Zucker who doesn't get it and Penny Marshall for Awakening's.

Penny Marshall never gets her due as a director in her entire career. She ultimately makes riding in cars with boys. It's a flop, and she's never, either she's never allowed to direct again or she just never has any interest in directing again. And I'm not quite sure what it ended up being. Yeah. But I feel really bad because she made some real bangers. If you, if a man, like, I hate, this is very reductive, but I'm sorry, if a man directed big and a league of their own and made a couple of flops, he would absolutely still get to keep directing. For sure.

Like, for sure. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yes. It wouldn't matter. Yes. Um, Stephen Frears gets nominated for the grifters. I like the grifters.

Barbette Schroeder gets nominated for reversal of fortune. A movie that's just as junky as ghost. But it's like... I thought for the first time during the pandemic and I was like, I'm having a good time here. It's fun. It's junkie fun, but it's junkie fun in a more like dramatic way. It's trashy. It's so trashy, but in a way that I really kind of like.

Ron Silver playing Ellen Dershowitz with like, there's a whole lot to consider there. Bruce Joel Rubin, as I mentioned, wins Best Original screenplay in a really weird... This is a year where all the big screenplays were adapted. So original screenplay as like the Woody Allen movie Alice that like even like among Woody Allen's filmography nobody remembers. The Barry Levinson movie Avalon that was well liked at the time, but like has kind of faded into obscurity. Peter Weir's green card, which was basically like Gerard de Pardue comes over to America

and like charms the pants off of everybody. Cute, cute movie in my memory. I watched it as a get a couple times. I would say that that screenplay, as it exists in my head without a having seen it in probably over 20 years, like, good screenplay. Sure. It's one of those movies we mentioned on this head Oscar buzz a lot, movies that exist as VHS covers. Yes.

And I always, because the VHS cover of that, is Gerard de Perdue has thrown Andy McDowell over his shoulder. And she's like laughing. She's like having a laugh about it or whatever. She's loving life. She's got 18 cubic inches of like, of hair. Just hair everywhere. 18 cubic inches is probably not very much. But, you know, a lot of hair.

She's just all hair. And then Metropolitan. Weird. Whit Stillman just gets a nomination for Metropolitan. Love it, but like, it's so weird. He was never going to win that, but that's nice that he's there. Yeah. If Whit Stelman was going to get one nomination for a screenplay, I do wish it had been the last days of disco. I know that you can't just sort of like transpose.

That's my favorite by far. You love that movie, right? That's such a bodycoded movie, I feel like. I love that movie. One of my favorite endings of all time. I love that movie so much. Okay. I knew.

I sometimes I can just watch a movie and I'm like Bobby Finger likes this movie I love that movie so so so so much I think it's I think it's incredible um Metropolitan never really clicked for me actually no kind of same I've also never seen Barcelona and one of these days I'm going to see Barcelona maybe I'll like it love and friendship though good with still I like love and friendship I've never seen Barcelona either so yeah maybe I'll come to the city we'll watch Barcelona well I didn't watch Barcelona because I didn't like Metropolitan so oops yeah kind of um Whoopi wins best supporting actress, famously. If you ever watch that clip, she, like, hoots and hollers from her seat. She, like, sort of, like, gets this big, huge, like, you know, yell from her seat. And then they cut to Angelica Houston, who just does not look happy about it. And I wonder if she either was, like, pulling for Annette Benning, because her grifter's co-star, or she was just, like, not impressed with Whoopi or something. But, like, she has a look on her face.

Wow. beats Lorraine Braco for Goodfellas. Lorraine Braco won basically all the critics awards that year. So she was the expected winner? I was going to ask, who was like the favorite that year? I don't remember that. I feel like Whoopi had won the globe. I think.

I'm pretty sure that Whoopi won the globe. So I think by that point, it was not unexpected that Wuppie would win. But I feel like certainly because Braco had won a lot of the critics awards, there was a sense that she could win. Yeah. And then Mary MacDonald is there representing Dances with Wolves, and there was a sense that dances with wolves could maybe sweep. So there was also that. Annette Benning nominated for the Grifters, as I said, her first Oscar nomination, even though, no, this would have been the year before Bugsy. It's always surprising to me that she's the one person in Bugsy that's not nominated because, like, it's the one performance to me that's like really, really fun and stands out. And then Diane Ladd for Wild at Harrow. one of the craziest nominations I ever can think of. Have you ever seen Wild at Heart? I've never seen Wild at Heart.

No. The plot is somewhat incomprehensible. It's very much like Lovers on the Run, Nicholas Cage and Laura Dern. He's a big Elvis freak, as he is in a lot of his movies. And Diane Ladd plays her mother, as she is in real life, who, like, is also... I'm trying to remember. The plot details escape me. I know she gets so upset at one point that she has this breakdown of her.

in her bathroom, where she takes her red lipstick and just, like, colors her whole face in red lipstick and has a breakdown. And it's so wild that that got nominated for an Oscar. Good for you, David Lynch. You did it. Ghost loses best film editing to Dances with Wolves. Editing tends to go with Best Picture winner often. Lose's best original score to Dances with Wolves. I will say, as much as I love Maurice Jarre and that score, that John Barry dances with Wolf's score is an all-timer.

It deserves that one. It deserves that one, for sure. Exquisite. I don't love a lot about Dance with Wolves, but I love the music. It's amazing. Yeah. The reviews were real mixed, including

some of them within the reviews itself. There were a lot of reviews that sort of didn't quite know. There weren't a kind of very high profile like tearing it apart it was just a lot of like um Ciskel or sorry

Ebert you know didn't really like it sort of nitpicked a lot of the details um Janet Maslin thought that it was too slow moving at times that some of those

special effects look silly which she's right and she's right yeah um most people were sort of like mildly complimentary for Demi Moore, but she doesn't get a ton of like raves, which I kind of feel bad about because like I understand like she's like, you can't compete with Whoopi. You can't compete with Whoopi. I do feel like she's giving more in this movie than maybe she gets credit for. And maybe again, it's part and parcel of me doing this project. Um, but. It's a sad performance. It's not

it's not a memorable performance at all. But when you watch it in the moment, you're like, oh, this is really heartbreaking and you need that to be good or the rest of it doesn't matter. Yes, I agree. David Anson, at Newsweek, mostly really liked it. Called it seductive and funny. Thought it got schmaltzy right at the end,

but, you know, what are you going to do? Said Demi Moore has never been more appealing, which, like, that's basically it. Like, she's just sort of, you know, she's magnetic, I feel like. Richard Coralus is the most, I want to read this whole paragraph of Richard Corliss that I excerpted, because it's so very 20-cent word kind of a thing. So is Ghost a bad movie that a lot of people will like?

Sorry, so is Ghost, I do whatever sentence before. He basically, he calls it a bad movie that a lot of people will like, which is very, I'm sorry, condescending. It's got suspense, comedy, a big chase, and a little sex. and has DeMe more pert and intense. I don't like pert as an adjective because it makes me feel like you're just talking about her boobs. Every emotion acutely a quiver in fine Debra Winger fashion. So weird.

It's an odd comparison. I don't get Debra Winger from DeMee, kind of at all, except for the voice. It's almost like he's wishing to recast her or something. They both have sort of similar sort of like throaty voices. Like kind of raspy voices. That's kind of where the comparison ends. But though director Jerry Zucker wants his necrophiliac romance to be sensitive,

he pumps up its feelings fortissimo to the dimest view. So the dimest viewer will get the point. And in its vision of death on earth, ghost is exasperatingly capricious. I will tell you what else is exasperating, Richard Corliss. And that's all of your prose in this. So irritating. Jesus Christ. It's one of those things where you read a paragraph from somebody and you're like,

I would gnaw off my arm to get away from you in a party, like a conversation like this. I would absolutely just escape by any means necessary. Yeah. Anything else we want to talk about that we haven't gotten to. We covered all my bases. I have so many notes. All my Goldwyn bases. We got to talk about the poster.

We talked about the poster. Demi's crying face. cut. The haircut, really, for as much as, did you ever watch America's next top model and how every season Tyra Banks tried to give some model a pixie cut every year? Oh, yeah. I watched it for a very long time. And she would always reference Mia Farrow and Rosemary's baby. And I'm kind of surprised she never referenced Demi Moran Ghost because it's a much more contemporary example of it. Yeah. Sam Wheat, such a fucking funny name. I literally at one point wrote out, you got to hand it to Carl. He wanted it more. And honestly, he did want it more.

apartment. In our father's kingdom, we are all handsome, is the best bullshitty line of Otomay when she's still faking it. Handsome, and she goes, Julio? Like my Julio? This is very funny. Stephen Root, this legendary

trip to Montego Bay that keeps getting referenced. Good old Randy. Good old Randy. Good old Randy. Oh, the scene... What is the line where it's like, he wouldn't remember if he talked to Tina Turner or something. I like that line delivery when he goes, he was so drunk at that party

that he, even if he had a conversation with Tina Turner, he wouldn't remember it. When Sam says that to Oda May, Oda May lets out like the tiniest little chuckle. Yes. And you can tell that she's sort of like, damn it, he got me. Yeah. Like it's a really good moment. Yes. It's a really good moment. I'm glad you brought that up because I absolutely noticed that. The scene towards the end when Molly finally lets Otame in again after, I believe it's the penny, right? That's the, that's where Sam floats the penny to her. And then she opens the door and you get that two shot of the coverage shot of the look on Molly's face and then the look on Otomay's face when she opens the door. I think it's just beautiful.

I think it's a wonderful moment. Block away from the real world house. This loft is massive. Carl sent to hell. The ending does work 100% because of Demi's face in that moment. Like her face really does sell it. Oh, the Ditto thing. We haven't talked about the, I love you, Ditto.

Oh, we never even mentioned Ditto. It's so screenwriterly in the way that it's deployed in that, like, the seeds are planted early. She brings it up again moments before he is killed. that it's a thing that she's never liked, that he's never said, I love you, he only answers her ditto. It is then used to authenticate him,

and then it is finally one last time used ironically at the end, where he finally says, I love you, and she says ditto, and everybody's like, oh, it's ditto. And it's such a, like,

wrap it up in a bow, and sometimes I'm like, it works. It totally works. And I'm also like, screenwriters, be a little less. satisfied with your concedes, because it just does feel like, way, cracks knuckles, like, wait,

oh, they see what I pull off with this one? But you know what? He deserved to crack those knuckles. It's so corny and yet it, it worked. And I think that, I think that that for as, like, cringy and unrealistic as that moment is, like, he really needs, everything that Richard Corliss is complaining about, it's like, babe, that's what the audiences want. They want to, they don't need to believe in this. They just want to feel something really hard. Right. And sometimes you need a sledgehammer for that. And this movie is a sledgehammer. We're in the middle of July. Like, we want a good, you know, we want a yarn. You know, we want a mainstream romantic comedy slash drama. All right. So on this podcast, as I've been doing, at the end of the episode, I have my guest score this movie. from one to 50. So one is the worst, and 50 is the best in this case. So you're not ranking, you're giving a score. It is essentially ranking, but opposite. I, fuck, I should have done it the other way, but we're well too past it. We cannot go back. The twist is that each score can

only be applied once for the duration of the podcast. So once a movie gets a score, that score is off the board. So at this point, you are being given the task to give ghost a score, but you cannot use 23589, 1626, 27, 37, 35, 37, 48. Listeners, if you use these numbers to win the lottery, I deserve a cut. I just do.

I'm going to give this. So a lot of the numbers, I feel bad I'm so early in this run that I'm going to take a number that may be more deserving elsewhere, but I shouldn't really think about that. I should just do this in a bubble. I am going to... My gut said I would give it 34 at first, but I don't think I'm going to do that. I actually think I'm going to give it 28. Okay. I'm going to do 28. I don't know that it... For as much as I kind of love what I love about this movie, I have to say, when I watched it again last night,

I did not have a great time. Okay. But like I said, when I had a good time, I had an amazing time. But, like, overall, I was kind of like, oh, boy, like, let's hurry this one up. So I'm going to say 28. All right, all right. And Whoopi Goldberg deserves, let's say, 25 of that 28 points. Honestly, yes. You're not wrong. And no offense, no shade to Demi at all.

No, I think she's one. Like, I mean, I raved. You heard me rave. Okay. It'll be interesting to see it. So next episode is Nothing But Trouble, a movie that I saw and remember nothing about. my friend Louis Pitesman is coming on to talk about that. Our friend Louis Pizsman is coming on to talk about that.

Cool. And then the next sort of big one coming up isn't until a few good men. And there's like several things we're doing in the... Can I change it to 30? Give it 30. Yes. You can absolutely change it to 30. 30. No one's taken it, so I'm going to claim it.

Okay. It's a nice even number. Good. 30. I like that. It feels disrespectful keeping it in the 20s. No. 30.

I like that. All right. Um, uh, Bobby Finger, co-host of the Who Weekly podcast, author of the novels, The Old Place and Four Squares. Anything else you want to communicate to, uh, my patrons about where they can listen to you, read you, whatever. Oh, no. Any, anywhere you listen to podcasts and anywhere you read your books. Any live shows coming up? Uh, oh, by this point, it'll be done. Okay. Yeah. It's fine.

All right. I'm all good. Can't thank you enough. You lived up to the hype and the expectation. Thank you, Bobby. Thanks, Joe. Thanks again to Bobby Finger for an incredible conversation about ghosts, reminding me just how much I would give for one more drag. To me, myself, and I is an independently produced podcast that is written, recorded, and edited by yours truly, read. Thanks to Louis Rendon for providing our podcast artwork, and of course to every single one of you patrons for being along for the ride. We'll be back in 10 days with another entry from Demi Moore's filmography, so until then, remember, Otamay Brown would have been able to do so much more good with all of that money than those stupid nuns. Bye-bye.

Thank you.