This Had Oscar Buzz - Class of 2020

Episode Date: March 28, 2021

It’s finally here: our This Had Oscar Buzz Class of 2020! Even in a COVID-impacted Oscar year that saw a longer eligibility calendar and much fewer trips to the theatre, we still have a slew of movies with Oscar hopes that were left out in the cold on nomination morning. And we are here to … Continue reading "Class of 2020"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Thank you so much, David, and good morning, although we're in London, so it's afternoon here. But regardless of a time of day, it's a moment that each of these nominees will never forget.

Absolutely. Dick Poop. Dick Pope for Mr. Turner. Hello, and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast where the mountains live through the screams of seagulls, where the whales can't live because they're gentle people. Every week on this head Oscar buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie. that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or

another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy except this episode, our bonus episode. We're here to talk about the class of 2020, that this had Oscar was eligible movies that, once again, we're kind of wait a year

before we talk about any of these. Right. Can't imagine we would be super quick to rehash the year that was COVID. There's no There's no cats in this bunch, I feel like. Yeah. Skimble Shanks is not demanding his presence.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I'm your host, Chris Fyle. Here, as always, with one of the muses for my hometown, Joe Reed. Hey, hey, hi. Hey, hey, hi. The funny thing is about Class of 2020 is, this is sort of similar to our Toronto episode, where we're just like, what are we even going to talk about?

It's such a weird year. It's such a lean year. Nothing's going on. And then, like, sure is anything, we come up with a list. And it's just like, yeah, it's a couple dozen movies that, you know, had buzz in somewhere or another. And I think it's also kind of representative that the Oscars really kind of, I guess, congealed around a certain number of movies. That's why most of the Best Picture nominees have six nominations, you know? Yeah.

So, like, that's part of it, right? Like, I think there's some movies that did better than they normally would have. I think there's some movies that would have done even better if it was a normal year. And, you know, they could have played to crowds and theaters and such, like movies that would have benefited from that type of experience versus everybody watching it at home. But, yeah, we did actually come up with a decent number of movies. I also want to commend our listeners, too, because we immediately, had people jumping into our mentions

saying no first cow, it's one of those movies where you don't want to like shit on it or anything. So like, thank you listeners for understanding that part of it. But at the same time, I think

there is a case to be made for First Cow and like the only thing about that is if you were going to go into talking about First Cow you'd kind of have to talk about how it did have legitimate potential and some Oscar buzz, but probably only because it was a reduced COVID year. So, like, that would be the episode to maybe talk a little bit about that.

And I can't imagine us wanting to do that in a year's time or so. Our COVID year, right? Well, I think if that's the case with a lot of these movies, actually, where it's like, I look at a lot of these movies, and it's just like we wouldn't have, we would have sort of dismissed their chances a lot sooner. were it a normal year with a normal slate of big studio movies out there, but I think because of the limitations of what 2020 gave us in terms of films, the number of films, and also the kinds of films that were released,

then we, I think, took a longer look at other things and was just like, oh, does X and Y have a shot something like, I care a lot, which gets a Golden Globe for Rosamond Pike, or, you know, like, does the Mauritanian have the same kind of effect if it has to struggle through, you know, a dozen other big movies at the end of the year trying to come out? Does, you know, the buzz for Michelle Pfeiffer and French exit, like, persist for as long as it did in a year where there are, like, you know, a half dozen other bigger contenders for Best Actress to talk about? And in a way, it lets us talk about more and different kinds of movies than we normally would be talking about, which is cool. And it also sort of like gives the year a little bit of a, you know, a hallmark all its own. Yeah.

I think it's also would have been shaped because there's a small handful of movies that probably, if it was a normal year, wouldn't have been ready for the full, like, theatrical. release. Some of them were held, like, to my understanding, Judas and the Black Messiah was ready. People saw it in the fall, but they, like, were extremely cherry-picked. Like, only a handful of people did get to see it, but people saw it. But, like, United States v. Billy Holiday wasn't ready until the very, very last minute. So that's, like, the type of thing that could have been held for the next year, even. Yeah, totally. And I also think that there's certain, like I said, there's certain movies that because it was reduced down, or like because there's a longer time for people to sit with these movies and less competition, I think something like Sound of Metal really benefited from that. Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm not sure that that could have, not to say anything of the quality of the movie, but because it is a smaller, movie and like the type of intensity that like oscar usually rewards with acting nominations but not best picture nomination uh that's a movie that i think really benefited this year that maybe we could have to talk about the trajectory of a movie like sound of metal is really interesting where it was a movie that had played toronto in 2019 to not much of a response like there wasn't a negative response but it just like wasn't it was very quiet it was a very It was there. I remember noticing it on the lineup there, and I considered seeing it because Riz Ahmed is a really interesting actor, and I think the people who did see it seem to have good things to say about it, but it was nothing like a sort of a groundswell word of mouth, got to go see this movie, kind of a thing. And the fact that it was able to sort of continue to build a buzz when it did eventually get released during 2020, and it had that

space to sort of be a, you know, for lack of a better term and better, you know, for like of bigger movies, it was one of the bigger movies of 2020 because of that. And then once you saw it, once I saw it, I was just like, well, this is really, it's, it doesn't seem like it would be, you know, up Oscars Alley, and yet like it really is in terms of the kind of story that's being told and the performance at its center and all that stuff. And it obviously really, you know, caught on in a big way to the tune of, you know, six Oscar nominations. And probably a win somewhere like Best Sound. Yeah, I think that's very probable, especially in a year without blockbusters.

That's probably probable. Yeah. But again, that's really cool. To do like craft categories in a year without all your big blockbusters is, you know, a really, and even Tenet, which is like the blockbuster that got released this year, didn't really, like, overwhelm the craft categories like it honestly could have. It probably could have gotten another, you know, three or four nominations in those categories. Absolutely.

So it's, it's a, you know, it's very interesting. For as much as this Oscar year seems in some ways muted, it's also, you know, more fascinating than most. Mm-hmm. I mean, not to mention, like, because of the year being what it was, was like something like trial of Chicago 7, which was supposed to be released by Paramount, got sold to Netflix. So like what would have changed for that movie if it wasn't a Netflix movie, if it was a studio that probably could put even more attention around it?

Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. And now it's, it got released. I remember when it got released, it was one of the sort of handful of movies that we talked about as being a possible frontrunner because of pedigree and subject matter and things like that. And that, I think, is really where you saw the slimming of options this year is there's a lot of movies that were talked about in terms of it can get some nominations, maybe it can show up in an

acting category, maybe, you know, a screenplay category, something like that. But the movies that I think were plausibly sold as this could win are very very, you very, like, there's a very small handful of them this year, and they really didn't change much. It was trial of Chicago 7. It was Mank. It was eventually, people came around to the idea of Nomadland. You were very early on that one, but I think, I know I was one of the ones who was, like, pretty skeptical about whether No Bandland could stay sort of ahead of the other movies at the end of the year. And I think now, I think I was more high on the possibilities of Minari early on, and I think that movie really now is in a position where it's maybe running in second place to Nomad Land if I were to rank the Best Picture nominees in terms of their chances. I think Minari has a threat, stands as a threat to actually win Best Picture.

I mean, like, it's partly the preferential ballot thing of that lineup of movies. I have a hard time seeing a lot of people putting it low on their ballot. versus some of the other ones. Even Nomadland, I can see anybody putting them low. Right. I also think promising young woman would probably not be a movie that we would be talking about in relation to Oscar. They've probably run their campaign better than anybody this season because, like, that was originally supposed to be April. They could have, whether in April or in the summer, you know, put that movie out.

just as they did on premium on demand. But, like, I think they were smart to hold that movie until, like, towards the end of the schedule when there was not, I mean, like, there was competition, sure, for eyeballs, but, like, they positioned that movie and put it out to people, like, right at the time where getting people talking about it probably yielded a better awards run than they would have otherwise. Yeah. COVID year or not.

They just timed that movie incredibly well to get the result that they did. I always, you know, I take a step back to last January. You know, Sundance, where Minari and Promising Young Woman both played. And Nomad Land is sort of far in the distance. And we were all really high on Chloe Jo. as a really interesting filmmaker because she's got both this small thing with Francis McDormon coming up

and this Marvel movie coming up was supposed to be released at the end of 2000. And so she was a really interesting story. But I think compared to the Marvel movie, you sort of wondered how small nomad land was going to be. And then something like Mank was a contender from a year out.

I remember when I was on Vanity Fares podcast and we're doing our year ahead kind of a thing. Mank was definitely one of the movies that I talked about because it's Fincher. It's, you know, Netflix had just had such a success with the Irishman. It's a movie about making movies. It's, you know, all these, it ticks all the boxes. And so it's interesting that, like, we've ended up with this mix of things that, you know, a couple of things that were definitely foreseeable and a couple of things that, like,

if you would have said at Sundance that promising young woman would have been a best picture, best director, best actress, best screenplay nominee at the Oscars, I would have been real incredulous and... Yeah. Well, I mean, I think at that time, people thought that best case scenario for the movie would be Best Actress, and like, that seemed plausible still even when it was an April release. Yeah.

It would have seemed to me along the lines of Best Actress Campaigns for Tony Collette for Hereditary, Florence Pugh for. for Midsomar, like, things like that, which are, like, promising young woman isn't horror that way, but, like, it's real stylized and really, um, you know, the mix of genres at play there are really interesting, but not the kinds of things that Oscar usually goes for. Like, that kind of, uh,

aggressive, dark comedy kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. I don't it's still a surprise to me it's still such a surprise to me that it's such a success and I'm very happy about it because I really liked that movie but um it has the benefit of being one of the few movies that was getting a lot of conversation and a lot of attention too so I think that definitely helped and I think that goes back to the timing of when they released the movie they did that very smartly to yeah kind of capitalize on uh yeah uh you know a less crowded year yeah definitely do you have any that you think we would have talked about in a regular year for an episode. I have one that got

like several nominations. Yeah. So something that did get nominated that you think if it were the full year would have gotten blanked and we would have been talking about it. It would be a this had Oscar best movie.

I definitely think that would be news of the world. Oh, yeah. When people started seeing that movie, nobody was talking about it. I feel like that's the movie that kind of benefited most in that it was, I mean, somewhere between ninth and 12th in the best picture ranking, probably, considering it got all those nominations.

But I think I just saw lack of enthusiasm for that movie and the kind of categories that it's getting nominated in, like you talked about with Tenet, right, where you could easily see it just showing up in those categories because there's, like, not Blockbuster movies or there's not these, like, big canvas movies, I kind of think News of the World is the one that benefited from that for a movie that doesn't really have a lot of passion behind it. I don't disagree, except for the fact that it does seem like the kind of movie that could have just shown up in Best Cinematography, and you were just like, huh, you know how cinematography will every once in a while just throw in a movie there where it's just like,

and obviously, like, Darius Wolski is a very well-respected cinematographer. But yeah, you're not wrong. I think that is a movie. But I think we would have gotten more movies that could have also been that type of thing that would have taken that spot, you know? That is very possible. Like even silence, like there's a limited pocket of people that love that movie, including the two of us. And it shows up in cinematography. And it's like, huh, but it still makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I think you're right. I think you're definitely right. I also think, I mean, it's not the same thing. I think it would have gotten the acting. nominations, but like, something, the fact that Ma Rainey's Black Bottom was able to establish

itself early as an Oscar contender, I think owes a lot to the fact that the landscape wasn't overly crowded at that point, and there were, there was no reason to sort of dismiss it out of hand because it was a stage adaptation by George C. Wolf, do you know what I mean? It was like, Fences is also August Wilson as adaptation obviously but like it's Denzel Washington who was like as oscarry as can be and I think ultimately the Chadwick bozeman viola Davis performances make the case for themselves anyway and would have definitely been contenders but the fact that it came incredibly close to a Best Picture nomination that it gets nominations in a costume and production design and makeup

hairstyling and things like that it's very deserving it's one of my favorite movies of the year like I really really loved it and I think in a more traditional year there's the danger that people

would have been like oh that's not going to it's not going to be a contender beyond just the acting so we're not going to consider it in any of these other categories and I'm glad that it did get considered in the other category And Netflix went hard for it too

Like Netflix really like I know they were very much on front street Especially about Anne Roth in the costumes And it ultimately worked out for them Oh I think she's going to win for costumes Like I think that's that's going to happen I mean like it's hard for any one distributor To handle so many movies in the Oscar race Like Netflix had

And like I think that's part of it And I feel like I'm about to talk out of both sides my mouth here, but like Oscar doesn't have, I don't think that they respect things that are like so clearly adapted from plays, even though they can make them incredibly compelling, like Maureenie's Black Bottom is, but then like to transition just a little bit into like the movie that I think would have gotten a better tally if it had been in front of audiences rather than in front of people in their homes, you know, where it can have like a splashier festival response.

I do think that's one night in Miami. Like, at like TIF, one night in Miami would have played through the roof if it was at like the Princess of Wales or something. I think that feels like the movie to me that the missing ingredient was a like crowd response. You know, the type of thing that you can't, that you feel in a room and you can't just get from like, people's tweets, right? Yes. I hear what you're saying for that.

I was maybe a little more lukewarm on One Night in Miami in general than most people were. I really loved the performances. I would have probably gotten behind a nomination for Kingsley Benadier and something. Absolutely. I think Leslie Odom Jr. is good. Also, probably it's not going to be among my top five supporting actors, but it's a really, really good cast. To me, it never really made the leap to being a sort of transcendent film for me beyond just

sort of a collection of its best performances. But I think you're right in that a movie like that could have really benefited from a big, buzzy, ground-swelly word of mouth. It did play TIF, but it didn't get the benefit of sort of the best of what TIF can do for you in terms of getting everybody talking, giving everybody, for lack of a better term, buzzing about your film. Even though I think it's like, it's very

much, like, and it got criticisms, a lot of them that I think are unfair towards it. You know, it got the thing of people saying it's so clearly adapted from a play, but I do think there's a part of it where that movie

is so much positions itself as a crowd pleaser. And I think it's underwhelming nomination tally shows well there weren't crowds for this movie to play to. It's playing to people in their houses

you know, like... Yeah. Here's my question to you. Is in a normal year does Borat subsequent movie film seem even more like a like not really even

like not exactly a film. like an Amazon sort of like brand extension for the Borat character. And does it get nominations in a normal year? I really think it doesn't. But I have been anti-Borat all year. So I'm wondering how much of my perspective is clouding. That's part of the question, because Amazon bought that movie. They produced it in secret and then, unless I am wrong,

Amazon paid like $20 million or something for it. Um, so it's not like it was produced by Amazon. So it could have gone to an actual distributor too and had just a completely different life, right? Um, I don't know. I think in the year of 2020, I think the whole Rudy Giuliani part of that movie gave it a certain credibility that I'm, to people that I'm still kind of wrapping my head around. because I don't, I don't love the movie as much as some people do, and I certainly don't think otherwise, aside from like the impact of that scene or whatever, and Maria Bacalova being great, I don't know if it feels as smooth as the first one did.

Like so much of it felt staged. Yeah. And that was my problem with it. I don't, I mean, I think maybe it's not a screenplay nominee, but I do kind of wonder if Maria Bacalova is still a nominee. see I think the other way around I think it's wait did you say you think it would be a screenplay nominee but not Baccarlova I don't even though the first one was but like that was probably the only way Oscar was going to recognize the first one at the time where I think Bacolova doesn't get nominated yeah I think I think it's one of those things where it's like what's plausible right and I think because it was such a non-traditional year when that movie came out and people really loved her and people were like, Maria Bacalova, Oscar. And I think in a normal year, it would have stayed as a joke. And because this was such a weird

year, there was that sort of, you know, just kidding and less kind of a thing about her where it's just like, oh, like, ha, ha, ha, Maria Bacalova. But like, but it could happen because what else is actually, you know, happening this year. And I think that she, you know, really benefited from that. I do think, I mean, like, it's Borat, so it's raunchier than some of these examples, but I do think historically there are examples of, like, comedy ingenues breaking through with Oscar, like, even people like Haldi Hahn, right, right? You're right. Or Marisotomei, even. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I guess I'm higher. How dare you, first of all, compare my beloved Mona Lisa Vito to anybody in Borat's subsequent movie film? I'm so mad at you right now. When you catch up to the movie, I'm sure you'll be impressed by her. Whatever. I'll see it eventually. I have to.

I boxed myself into this corner. Let's talk about the ones that didn't make it, though. Let's transition into our class of 2020. Again, more movies than you think. More movies than you think. We always say we're going to wait a year. Maybe we wait a little bit longer this year, A, so we don't have to talk about COVID. but also the Oscar calendar shifted, so instead of January, maybe we'll wait until April of next year.

Listen, we're going to get into it because Chris has come up with some, has regimented our discussion really, really well and put us into some categories. And when we talk about the first movie that we want to do from this class, I have some definite opinions. Okay, so we like a category here. These aren't fully analog to the previous class of whatever years that we've done before. But just to like streamline us along, we're already pushing half hour limit on a bonus episode. Our first category is the It Tastes Like Ashes Prize for the happiest miss, the movie that we didn't, that we were happy to Nazi nominated because we didn't think it deserved to be nominated. Yes. What Chris was your pick for this?

Um, I mean, there's quite a few things that I could say here. Yes. And, like, some of them maybe were more serious contenders than others. Um, I think it's got to be the little things for me, with Jared Leto being terrible. Yep. Um, and getting dangerously close to an Oscar nomination. Here's the, here's the thing about the little thing. Little Things has the funniest awards trajectory. to me because it was always planned as a January movie.

It never moved on the calendar. The season moved around it. This neighborhood grew up around it. The Globe nomination and the SAG nomination for Jared Leto to me is only about timing. It's when people were watching it when they were voting and he was doing press for it. So, like, he made himself available for that movie. And, like, it's a horrible movie that just so happened to be getting seen at the right time.

It's such an object lesson in perspective, though, when we talk about movies that have Oscar buzz. And it really is, like, this is why I'm always obsessed with the notion. I've talked to you about this before. Maybe I mentioned it in the podcast, my grand idea that I ever get a giant grant to perform a science. experiment. It's, I will, and I said this before the COVID year, now this is really given this a different sheen, but I wanted to like go away to an island for a year and only get screeners of the movies or whatever, like with like a screening room. So I can see them, you know, projected or whatever, but see them in complete isolation of the conversations happening around them and the

reviews happening around them and then emerge and see whether my assessment of what are the major films, what are the major performances, what are the big awards contenders, what did well, what did not do well, what people liked, what people didn't like, whether my predictions for that would line up with the reality or whether, because I'm completely devoid of the context of how everybody else is talking about the movies, if I'm totally up a creek about things. And I think something like the little things really tells you how much context is important because if this movie gets released in a regular year in January, it's forgotten by February.

And there's no way. And it's like, and it does feel a little emperor's new clothes where all of a sudden now, because this movie, because the Oscar, you know, eligibility window shifted around it, now all of a sudden it's being released in what is essentially the like November, December of the new awards year. And now people are looking at it. And they're just like, oh, yes. Well, this is an Oscar winner giving a very committed, you know, villain performance or whatever.

And it's just like, and the Golden Globe thing happened. And you're just like, L.O.L. Aaron Taylor Johnson and Nocturnal Animals. Ha, ha, ha. Aren't they, you know, so corrupt and ridiculous? And then the sag thing happened. And I was just like, oh, my God. Like, first of all, everybody watched their screener of this, which I get because it's like in a land of, you know, sad indies. and now all of a sudden it's just like a Denzel Washington cops and criminals movie like sign me up

but like but it's bad and it's bad and he's he's not the worst performance in the film because Rami Mollock is doing whatever the hell he's doing I don't even think Jared Letto is particularly terrible but like it is not close to the realm of what you would nominate somebody for for an Oscar and it's just so weird that like that little shift in perspective all of a sudden people were like, oh, well, now we consider this for this type of thing, and now, you know, a lot of people voted for it. Maybe it wouldn't be so much of a talking point if it wasn't for the SAG nomination because, like, Globes gonna globe, I guess. And like, it wasn't on an island when the Globe nominations came out in terms of weird things that the Globes did on top of them, all of the controversy that they've right. fully had this season.

But then the SAG happened and it legitimizes it in a way that we actually have to start thinking about it. And I was so angry. It was so angry that I had to take that movie seriously and I was even more angry when I saw it and it was bad. And I felt bad for Denzel being sidelined in this bad movie. Agreed. Yes.

Glad it's not nominated. You know what movie deserved the fate that, not the ultimate, fade, but deserved the kind of attention that the little things got is an invisible man. If Invisible Man and the Little Things had swapped release dates, an invisible man had gotten viewed through the lens of, oh, this is, you know, something that now we consider for awards. And if Elizabeth Moss had been nominated for Golden Globe and SAG, that would have been justice. We see that movie differently. I mean, Invisible Man is a conceivable this had Oscar Buzz movie because, like, it was shortlisted for score? Was it shortlisted for visual effects?

I don't think it was shortlisted for visual effects. Or maybe it was, and it just didn't get the nomination, obviously. It should have been nominated for visual effects. The visual effects not only are fantastic in that movie, but are so incredibly effective in terms of the best parts of that movie. We also see that differently because that shot where she's getting. dragged around the room is one of the crunchiest visual effects. Nope. It's so good.

And that's not even the scene that I'm talking about, but that is also a really fantastic scene in that movie. I'm talking about... Oh, I think it looks like dog shit. Oh, my God, I love it. I love that movie. I think it's great. And I think it deserved the attention that the little things got. I will die on that.

That scene is when the movie lost me because the VFX looks so bad. Nope. Nope. What is your pick for the movie for It Tastes, the movie you're happiest? is not awesome. So I had two written down. One of them was the little thing, so I'm glad that you talked about that. My other one is Cherry, the Tom Holland Rousseau Brothers film Cherry, which... Did you actually spend two and a half hours of your life watching that movie? I didn't, and I'm thankful. I did end up watching the little thing, so I feel like I got sort of snookered on that one. Cherry, I was waiting. I waited it out to see if it would get the nomination and it didn't. I was happy. But like, and I will see it eventually because I see movies. But like, in the limited time that, I have now the idea of seeing a two and a half hour movie that most people I was seeing didn't like and about sounded just like a real fucking bummer in addition to being bad

but also just like kind of a slog and in the week or two leading up to the nominations it really seemed like it was cresting towards something like it was going to get something I really thought that it was going to show up somewhere and I didn't know where I'm going seriously push back on that because Cherry is one of those movies where it's like just because you say that you are campaigning for a movie doesn't make it real like I mean that is not a movie that had any legitimate Oscar buzz. Oh, I disagree. I think it did have legitimate Oscar buzz. I do. I do. It was cresting. It was cresting. It was a movie that Apple bought because they want to be in bed with the Russo brothers. That's not because they wanted to actually push it for awards. Yeah, but the people who are voting for awards also want to be in bed with the Russo brothers. Okay, that's probably fair. I would be hesitant to do an episode on Cherry.

That's what I'll say. For the same reasons that I would be hesitant to do an episode on music, because just because music got nominated for a globe doesn't mean it had actual awards, buzz. Like, there's a reason we were aghast at those nominations for music. Thea's Music. Yeah, but you could say the same for the prom. and we're going to probably end up doing an episode on the prom just because I think it'll be a fun episode. And I think we won't do one on music because I don't think it will be a fun episode.

And I think that's the determining factor for me. Well, the prom's different because it's Meryl. There was an original song. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, I think that's right. I think music was definitely never, even when it got the Globe and Globe nomination, it was never a threat for an Oscar nomination. But if something gets a Golden Globe nomination, it makes it fair game for us.

I'm not saying we're going to do music because, again, I don't think that's a fun episode, given everything else around it. But I think if something gets a Golden Globe nomination, if something gets a SAG nomination, if something shows up on like NBR Top 10, that makes it fair game. And it's then up to us whether we want to do it or not. That is my phone. I will follow your lead on that, though I am with you that I am happy that Cherry did not get nominated for anything because I didn't want to have. have to watch it. Agreed. Agreed.

Moving on to the next category, which we are calling the You're a really good aeronaut prize for the movie that should be nominated. Not to say that the aeronaut should have been nominated, but, you know, we love our good aeronauts out there. Listen. What is your pick for this?

Mad respect. To our good aeronauts. So I have a few, actually. I'll start with just one, and then I'll see what yours are. but I want to mention Let Them All Talk Because That was going to be mine

I think I think Warner Brothers screwed that one up early And then we're not able to dig themselves out of a hole I think for some reason That sort of mystifies me Warner Brothers just decided This is just going to be an HBO Max movie We're not going to consider it in the realm of awards

really. We're not going to push it at all. And it's probably, it's one of those Soda Bird movies that's just sort of small and like high-flying bird or something like that, where even if it's good, it's not going to really garner a lot of attention. And we're not going to, you know, throw good money after bad or whatever. And I don't think they knew what they had on their hands. And I think that's a problem because once people started watching the movie, they really loved it. And then all of a sudden it's just like, oh, you have a movie by an Oscar-winning director that people are loving, that stars Merrill Streep, and you can't even pull a Golden Globe nomination out of this. And it's like, and it's a comedy. Well, because they didn't try. Because they didn't try, because they didn't have it within their, their conception that this was an Oscar movie.

And again, in a regular year, I could understand that more. but in a COVID year where so few big things came out and you have a Stephen Soderberg-Marrell Street movie that people are really liking, even if it's strange, even if it's, you know, low-fi and improvved and whatever, it's kind of insane. And it, like, takes the whole movie for it to really reveal what it's doing, what the movie is ultimately about.

Right. But it's also so fucking funny. Like, yeah, yes. Candice Bergen should be walking away with some, supporting actress trophies for that movie. Here's the thing. We know Soderberg doesn't want to play the game, to the extent which, like, it's written in his HBO Max contract

that he doesn't want to play the game. By the way, Stephen Soderberg, who's producing the Oscars. That was going to be my other point. Yeah. I don't know how long he was, you know, contracted to do the Oscars for that it would have really affected this movie. Right. But the other thing.

I forget the backwards and forwards of what the rules are now, that the Emmys say, if you provide screeners for Academy voters, you can't be considered for the Emmys, or if it's Oscar, I normally know this. Or if it's Oscar says you campaign for the Emmys, you can't be nominated for an Oscar. Did this campaign for the Emmys? Yeah. Huh? Did this campaign for the Emmys? Because now I think the movie is screwed out of the Emmys, too. Oh, I mean, I never thought, I don't think it was even in their plans to campaign it for the Emmys either.

I think they were just assuming that they were just like this was not going to be something that they were going to spend their time on. Yeah, but when the Emmys nominate Ellen Burstyn for a 10 second long performance in Misses Brown or whatever it is, like they could decide for themselves to vote for them all talk, but if it's not eligible for Emmys now. Right, right. No. And yeah, and it's, they just, you know, they screwed it up from. the break, and it's too bad. It's frustrating, mystifying. But again, even if Soderberg doesn't want to campaign, again, you have Meryl Streep, you have Lucas Hedges, you have Candiceberg, and you have Diane Weiss, like, you have a lot of people who you can, you know, campaign with, and, you know, there are options.

You have options. And also, it's just like, just let people see the movie, and then, you know, whatever. Just, uh, yeah, frustrating. All right. So you were going to pick Let Them All Talk. Did you have a runner up? Well, I mean, like, probably my tie, actually, because this is a movie that I like even better. It's just, like, there was absolutely nothing done with Let Them All Talk. And this movie, they did try. They should have tried harder. It's the 40-year-old version, Rada Blanks's Netflix comedy. That is one of my favorite movies of the year, the funniest movie of the year. like original screenplay is probably the most competitive category at the Oscars, but it also deserves to be in that competition. I was so happy when she was nominated at BAFTA for Best Actress.

I just love this movie. Like I think probably even though there are movies that I like more than them, like First Cow, I think the movies that I'm probably going to watch rewatch the most from 2020 are, the 40-year-old version, and let them all talk. Yeah. It's just so good. I hope listeners, if you haven't caught up to it, you absolutely should. It could have been a nominee for Best Original Song.

Poverty for is the song that they campaigned. You know I wanted that Best Original Song nomination. As I said, after Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar came out, I said the only truly deserving best original song lineup this year would have been two songs from Eurovision, two songs from Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar, and a white man with a black woman's butt from the 40-year-old version. And yes, when I say two songs from Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar, I am including I love boobies, and when I say two songs from Eurovision, I am including yeah, yeah, ding-dong. Like, this is, this is obvious to me. This is, you know, clear stay.

The song from Barb and Star that made me laugh the most is some of my friends from high school have recently passed. Which you get for like half a second, but it's just like the concept of it's still perfect, wonderful. Yeah. And like the globe screwed over the 40-year-old version. They have comedy categories. It's the best comedy of the year from Netflix. And granted, like Netflix had so much on their plate.

I don't think they did anything this year, probably especially this year, to dispel the fact that they can't handle releasing multiple major Oscar contenders. It's just they, they don't, they can't have like five best picture contenders and shows out because movies like this gets screwed. I think in other, it's too much. Well, in other years too, like where they could have this category, it absolutely could have been an original screenplay nominee. The thing about the 40-year-old version's Oscar trajectory is that the

was a moment where we all kind of got teased, right? Where, like, the National Border Review comes out, and it makes the NBR top 10 and gets another prize as well, right? And then there was another top 10 list that it showed up in, and now I want to look this up to make sure I'm not short-changing it. But there was, like, a two-week period there where the 40-year-old version shows up in a couple places, and I'm like, oh, maybe.

Maybe this is actually, you know, a kind of sideways contender towards some of these races and then I mean we were all clearly hoping for too much with the Golden Globes but yeah then it's just sort of

sorry my internet's being slow just the story and then right before the Oscar nominations come out she gets the best actress nomination at BAFTA and by then we had really all sort of like given up the ghost on an Oscar nomination but it's just like, oh, no, but Bafta, like, and, like, thrilled for her that she got...

And, like, I'm leaning into original screenplay, not because I don't think that she shouldn't have been in consideration for director or actress, but because, like, that was the easiest get for them for this movie. Like, there are a lot of analogs for movies like it that get an Oscar nomination for it, and, like... Yeah. Netflix just whiffed on it, like... But, like, in the realm... Yeah, best... Top Ten Films of the Year, National Border Review. and then a spotlight award for Rada Blank from the NBR.

And that, like, for as much as, you know, the movie doesn't get any kind of Oscar nominations, but this is a really good award season for this movie, where there's just like Rada gets a bunch of awards. There's Independent Spirit Award nomination. She wins Best Screenplay at the Gotham Awards while also being nominated for the Audience Award there. bunch of critics awards, like I said,

best first feature nomination at the Independent Spirit Awards, which are still to come. Like, she could win that. Now I want to look and see what her competition is. But like, I still have some faith in the Independent Spirit Awards. First feature. She's up against, well, Sound of Metal is a very big contender there. Sound of Metal, Miss Juneteenth, I carry you with me nine days,

and then the 40-year-old version. I feel like she's probably running in second place right now, but the Spirit Awards, you know, sometimes throw you some curveballs, so you never really know. Maybe if people didn't pay to vote in those awards, you know, where it's just like everybody votes for the Oscar contenders

because they pay $90 to vote on the Independent Spirit Awards. Maybe she would have a better chance. This is why we should pay $90 so that we can put our votes. I will forever look askance at Indy Spirit wins that keep mirroring the Oscars because it's just people paying to vote for them. I like the Indie Spirits. I like their nominees better than I like their winners.

Yeah, I think that's true. I think you're right. I think the nominees definitely outpace the winners. You're totally right. Yep. Because those are voted on by committees and juries. Yes. Yeah.

More precursors should have juries. I think if Bafta showed us anything this year, It's that juries make for less utility as Oscar predictors, but much more interesting awards. And if you're not going to be the Oscars, you shouldn't try to be the Oscars because there's no point. There's only the Oscars. You should be as quirky and different as you want to be. And BAFTA did that really well this year. BAFTA did amazing.

Yeah. All right. Moving right along to our next category, they forgot to notice it all of our. Around Them Prize for Nearest Miss, in honor of collateral beauty. What is the movie that got closest to an Oscar nomination that you think? So I sort of had a little bit of a trouble with this one, especially because we've already talked about the little things, and I don't quite know how close Jared Leto did,

but like we were all really, really anticipating it. I put the Mauritanian for this because... Perfect answer. This one also was just like, end of the year. Jody Foster wins the globe, which again, the Golden Globes are much less valuable as a predictor, obviously, especially after this year. But momentum really seemed to be moving in the right direction for the film in itself beyond just Jody Foster. I think Tahr Rahim's performance was really well received. I would be really curious to see where that ended up on the list of best actor nominees.

It's also in the BAFTA Best Picture for. five. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really, really building momentum. Having seen it, I don't entirely get it. It's not a bad movie, but it's also not a great movie. And it's also not a movie that, at least with me, doesn't really stick with you for too long after.

When you're in it, it's the story of it. The story that it tells is a really interesting story. I don't think it tells it interestingly. enough to stick with you as a film. But it was doing all the right things, and it was moving in all the right directions right up until the nominations, and I was, if not in supporting actress, I'm surprised it didn't show up somewhere. Right.

Yeah. So. I almost wonder, like, because Jody Foster and Tahrah Rahim are probably co-leads of that movie. Yeah. To me, it showed a sense of, like, opportunism with a supporting actress race that at least at one point felt way more in flux than I think it ultimately ended up being. And that's why they pushed her in supporting.

Because of supporting actor and how it kind of shaked out, I almost wonder if Tahar Rahim would have been a nominee if they had done the opposite. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean... Not that I'm saying that they should, because they shouldn't have run Jody Foster in supporting either. But that's the type of momentum, I think, where the movie was going towards. I think you're right. I think you're right there. And clearly, you know, lead supporting designations matter less and less, obviously, this year really kind of just exploded that whole thing with the Leith Stanfield nomination for Judas and the Black Messiah, which

I'm bummed that that now has to be the narrative because it's a great, performance by a great actor. I mean, I'm glad that Lakeith Stanfield is an Oscar nominee now. Me too. But it is insane that it's in supporting actor, especially with the both of them nominated, where it's like, I was fully on board with Daniel Kaluja is absent for like 45 minutes of that movie. He's just not part of it. And if that to you is enough to make him a supporting actor, I can get with that. I'm probably, I think it's really borderline. And I didn't really have a problem. I mean, his portions of the movie are his movie, but I do ultimately think that Lakeith Stanfield is the protagonist lead of that movie. He is the lead of that movie. And if you are going to,

if you're going to try and make the case that like Lakeith is supporting, you can't also have Kalulia supporting. Like, one of them has to be the lead. It's just like, that's, and I know that that's not how people vote. There are no leads, really. I think Parasite is a good example of that. True ensembles, yes. Yes. But that's not what this movie is.

It's not. It's more a two lead movie than it is a no lead movie. Like, it's closer to being a two lead movie than no lead movie. Some of the times I get annoyed when people are just like, well, it's the two title characters. And it's like, y'all, sometimes a title character can be a supporting character. Like, it is possible. Sure. I mean, like, there's a whole.

racist implication, too, that the two black actors are not considered leads of their movie. But I also wonder if it's kind of if there's an element to it where this is how the votes shook down and there were a significant number of people voting

for Daniel Kaluya in lead as well. Because, like, it's that. The craziest thing about Lakeith is he wasn't considered a contender an lead actor either. Like, in other times when this sort of thing has happened, this sort of lead supporting swerve with Keisha Castle Hughes, with Kate Winslet for the reader.

They had been, you know, getting a push in the other category. Like, they had been showing up in precursors, and they had been getting campaigned a lot. Whereas, like, you know, they campaigned Lakeith Stanfield as a lead actor in Judas and the Black Messiah on, like, press materials. But he was never really thought of within the world. realm of, you know, a best actor contender. And it tells me that voters

all had their own point of view on who the lead of that movie is. And like, it could also be people were passionate enough about Lakeith that they wanted to see him nominated. And lead actor was

incredibly competitive to the point where like Delroy Lindo, who gives the best performance of the year, couldn't get arrested. this season in terms of getting the hold on the season

that he deserved. Delroy Lindo and Carrie Coon should hold a live stream at the same time as the Oscars and just do who's afraid of

Virginia Woolf together or something like that. The amount of money I would pay to see that. Right, right? Just something competing with that just because they're the two

you know such good performances and they should both be nominated and it's insane. The other thing that I would say to, like, lead into maybe my second choice for this category about the Lekeith Stanfield nomination is that it shows me that probably both the fourth and the fifth spots were incredibly competitive because Paul Racy wasn't showing up places. So, like,

I don't just think it was like Lekeith and fifth. It could have been Paul Racy and fifth. But I think that those last two slots were incredibly competitive to get and that, like, someone like Bill Murray could have been almost as close, or someone like Aldous Hodge could have just been as close. Right. I mean, that's wishful thinking on my part. The Paul Racy nomination to me feels like it at least follows the trajectory that we've seen before of somebody who shows up in Critics Awards than is absent from the more, the bigger

sort of precursors, your globes and sags and Baftus and whatnot. I feel like Marsha Gay-Harden and Pollock was that kind of a trajectory where she had gotten some critics awards, and then she was gone from the conversation and then came back at the end. And I feel like that's at least a familiar trajectory that I can sort of wrap my head around. Yeah. But I think, like, in terms of close misses, Bill Murray and unfortunately Jared Leto were probably very close. Yeah. What was I actually from?

Oh, no, honestly, my answer for this, aside from that, so we're. We're talking about a different awards race. This is probably where I would put first cow. Like, I think I've already seen a lot of talk about how uncompetitive that adapted screenplay category is, won't be surprised if the father wins that over nomad land. The fosha. The faja. You know what Anthony Hopkins loves in that movie. What?

He loves gold. He does love gold. There you go. It's gold. Do you think, wait, that's interesting that you say that, that you wouldn't be surprised if the father wins. I think you're not wrong about that, but do you think Borat could win? And it's 25 nominees? No.

No. You think it's the father or nomad land? Probably. We will see. It could be neither. I think there's some people thinking that it's nomad lands to lose simply because it has, it's like the behemoth of the season

so funny so funny that Nomadland is the behemoth of the season again if you had told me 14 months ago like gosh I just also think that for first cow

in terms of not any nomination whatsoever I would have to imagine it was a contender for multiple places production design cinematography you know I'm still surprised

that it didn't get the cinematography nomination because, and I get why Trial of the Chicago 7 is a cinematography nominee, because sometimes a best picture contender, but sometimes a best picture contender just like gets craft nominations in places where... Well, Santa Pope Michael

is a previous nominee. Yes. Yes. I think that, I think that definitely plays into it. And I'm super glad that Sean Bobbitt got nominated for Judith and the Black Messiah. Like, that's fucking And, like, Darius Wolski, as I said, for News of the World is very respected. It is no surprise at all that Mank is a cinematography nominee because it is very sort of like visual forward of a movie.

And Nomadland got the nomination, the kind of nomination that I feel like First Cow really seemed perfect for, which is, it's a smaller movie, but it has these very sort of, uh, you know, pastoral, beautiful to look at, still kind of images and moments that they're great. But even when they're sometimes not great in certain movies, the cinematography branch will go for them. We've seen sort of like, you know, in the past, right? And the lighthouse in the previous year. Sure. Although the lighthouse had, like, lighthouse had great cinematography. Like, I love that. But, like, it's, it's an element that that branch seems to go for. And it's sort of a bummer that First Cow couldn't even get that. Well, I mean, I do think A24 put their entire weight behind Minari.

They kept First Cow in the conversation for things, but, like, their focus was on getting Minari as much as they did. And I think they're going to reap the benefit of that continually. We've already talked about how we think it has a real shot of best picture. But I think I think we. would be having a different conversation about First Cow. I think it would have gotten a nomination somewhere. We talked about this a little bit last year with Neon. I can't remember what was the other neon contender that we were just, oh, it was Clemency. A portrait of Lady on Fire. Right. But wasn't Clemency also, Neon? Clemency too, yeah.

Where I was sort of bitching for a while last year about how Alfry Wooder didn't get the campaign that I thought she deserved and she didn't. But then I sort of in that same thought was just like, oh, right, neon put all their chips on parasite. they were right to do so. And it worked out for them. And I'm glad that they did. So when it comes to these sort of indie distributors, like A-24, it worked out for them with Minari, and I'm glad that they did it. And in a perfect world, Minari and First Cow would both be Best Picture nominees. But in a real world where, you know, assets are finite for these indie companies, and you really have to make some decisions as to what you're going to focus on, they made the right decision,

and I'm glad that they did. All right, let's keep us moving. Our next prize is the Where's My Damn Picasso Prize for the Most Forgettable Movie? God bless you, Cher. That we could do an episode on. Yes, yes. I think I jumped you in the line for the last one, so why don't you answer this one first? I mean, for me, it's a movie that I was mean to because I think, whatever, this movie, I don't like it.

That would be Supernova, the Stanley Tucci, Colin Firth, a gay dementia movie that is, I think I called it sponsored by Land's End. Oh, God. It's just a very, very thin movie that. I think wants you to project whatever you want onto it while giving you absolutely nothing in terms of characterization, in terms of emotional depth. It's just this kind of not even blunt tool, but just like, I don't know. It's like having a house with just, like, the posts and no walls. Like, that's what that movie is. It's a candle movie.

It's a man candle movie, you know. I like candle movies. I do. Yeah. It's like, tears on my beard is the scent of that candle. I think it's interesting that we've reached a point where, and I don't think we maybe, I don't think it's that we just reached this point because, I think of a movie like Freeheld from a few years ago that really sort of like came and went very quickly with big movie stars playing gay characters.

I think it's interesting, though, that Supernova and Ammonite both really sort of disappeared from the awards conversation almost as soon as they showed up there. And I know that at the very least Ammonite has its supporters. out there. I haven't seen either one of these two movies yet. They're both on my list. My list is long. Amin I'd had more build-up, too. It was Cannes selected. We'd been paying attention to it because of the

actresses and the director. Right. But I think with both of the I think the fact that both of those movies are gay love stories with very, very prominent actors. All of them former Oscar nominees, two of them former Oscar

winners. And that just that is not unique enough anymore, which I think in one way speaks to that, you know, we are getting more and different, slowly but surely, queer films out there, not enough still, but like more. And just the fact of two big movie stars playing queer isn't, you know, juice enough to get it into better awards contention without it being something that people are really flipping out over. That's probably a good sign, to be honest. Yeah, yes, that's sort of what I was thinking.

Yes. My choice for this... I don't know. Ammonite, Ammonite, I'm interested to revisit simply because, like, it's a love story, but the way that movie functions really isn't, it's more about a... specific type of character and how they may want to exist within a love story without, you know, saying too much because you haven't seen it. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely something I want to see soon.

Maybe even in the next couple days. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. My initial choice for this seems like an odd one, but I have a backup to this once I get past this part. But like relative to what your expectations would be I think it's remarkable how quickly we all got past the prom I don't think it did well for Netflix

is the thing I think Netflix kind of let us but even but we've had like I mean Katz was a bomb too although cats had the rowdy screening thing which like makes it harder to talk about that movie as a theatrical thing

but like it's just really interesting that like for a couple a couple of days there, James Corden had to go in hiding because there were you know, armies of people searching for him to arrest him and send him to the Hague.

And just the rest of the movie, just there was, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the furor that you would have expected for the film. And then within a couple weeks, it was just like, moved on to the next thing. And nobody, there's no tale to it.

movie before it was even on Netflix. And then what it was, it was pretty quiet. I watched it on, like, New Year's Day morning. And by then, I was, like, a week or two beyond the point where anybody was talking about it. And I remember being, like, it's not even worth tweeting about it because, like, everybody's fully moved on. And, like, every once in a while, somebody will say Zaz, but, like, that's basically it.

It's really, and I wonder if it's like, is it a Netflix thing? Is it a 2020 slash 2021? one thing, is it the fact that, like, we just have so many other, you know, fish to fry on, you know, so many levels in our lives. But, like, whatever the reason. Right after it, they had much, much more, like, splashier premieres. They had Ma Rainey right after it. They even had Malcolm and Marie. Right. Which, Malcolm and Marie, people have kind of dealt with in the same way of the prom that, like, people are just moving past that movie. But that one at least, is more, that to me makes more sense. It's a small movie. It's, it didn't really have a ton of

fanfare going in. It's sort of like snuck up on people in the last month or two of the year. Whereas like the prom is a big ass, like hugely a list cast Ryan Murphy adaptation of a Tony nominated musical. Like, it's also like, it's actually a movie that's targeted towards teens and like that's probably really like it because of the cast it has like yes you could see like awards voters or like more sophisticated voters at least checking it not sophisticated but um more like people who go to see things like doubt you know still checking into the prom or even like mamma mia people who just want to have a good time but I think ultimately when you watch the movie the prom is for teenagers and like you didn't really see teens talking about the prom. Here's the thing. We got to stop making things for teenagers because teenagers aren't watching anything. Like, unless it's on, you know, they're not watching anything with, on Netflix. They're not watching anything that you require an attention span for.

And if they're going to find it, they'll find it in their own time. But like trying to cater to that or prepare for that or find, think that you are somehow foolhardy enough to think you can triangulate what. teenagers are going to watch stop trying because all you're doing is barking up wrong trees and you look foolish you know doing it whereas just like just make movies for literally everybody else literally everybody else and if the teens find it they'll figure it out and they'll find a way to like you know they don't want to be sold with it or whatever right exactly so it's just like you just give up on that demographic like it sounds stupid it sounds like you're throwing away your future but in some ways it's just like there's no there's no predicting it i don't know i don't

understand how i if i'm so glad i'm not in the business of having to predict what will sell to teenagers because like genuinely who the fuck knows i do understand you choosing that as most forgettable like in relation to right what it is my real choice is land because like it's it really just doesn't seem like it ever really existed. The second movie about a woman going off to be alone with the word land in its title. But even among in the realm of movies that, like, are the similar themed quasi-invisible, you know, cousins to big Oscar-nominated films, you're, you know, infamous to Capote, you know, that's kind of thing. Land's relation to Nomad Land is just, it's just infinitesimal. It's just so tiny and not a thing.

And nobody really saw it and nobody made a case for why you should be seeing it. And it almost feels unfair to pick it in that because it's just like it was never a thing. And it's not a surprise that it's forgettable because its release was so, so small. But, you know, there we have it. Right. It was one of those things that because they put it at the very end of the awards calendar for what it is, it probably never had a chance to begin with. Right. I seemed to, most people were like, eh, who cares?

And I at least, you know, enjoyed my time with it or thought my time with it was worthwhile. Even if, like, that seems wither. It's not withering. It's just like, I think that there was a ceiling on how impactful that movie would be. It's worthwhile. it's like 90 minutes but like as far as an awards movie it's not yeah yeah okay

our final question Joe what is your jellical choice the movie that you think we should do an episode on first all right I had two I'm going to give one and then after yours if you don't also have

one of mine then I'll throw in my runner up um there's of the two one, I'm looking forward to because I think I will have a lot of fun and one I'm looking forward to because I really just want to like unload on a movie and it's more fun to do the former

than the latter. So I really, even though the buzz on this is like maybe the most tenuous of anything on this list, I want to do an episode on Wild Mountain Time and you can't stop me. I really, really want to.

I still haven't seen the movie and I'm going to wait to see the movie until we do our episode on it. I still have my physical screener of it. I'm going to keep it so that I watch it on that because I want the extra laugh of when I do finally watch that movie seeing for your consideration and blazed on it. Absolutely. You're right to do so. I just, from everything I've heard about it, it sounds both bad and yet, like, delightfully absurd.

And, like, I'm totally into that. And now after Barb and Star, I'm, like, all the more fascinated with Jamie Dornan. And I, yeah, I'm just, I don't even want to go into it too much because I want to preserve the experience of Wild Mountain Time for when we do the episode on it. I'm obsessed with these people that were like Jamie Dornan's supporting actor for Barb and Star. When I felt like, I was watching that movie and I felt like, oh, Jamie Dornan thinks he's slumming it. Jamie Dornan is miserable making it. I don't think he was having fun. I did not get that sense.

I think everything in Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar is in service of the film, and that includes all the performances. So to me, it does seem a little odd to single out performances and, like, beyond, like, Wagon and Mamalo, I guess. But, like, even though their performances are just so much in service to the whole that, like, it's hard for me to separate out pieces. But I do, I do feel like Jamie Dornan is maybe a little, mystified. I don't know if

Jamie Dornan fully understands the humor of it, but like I, like, if I were making that movie and I didn't really get a chance to see the whole of it, I'd probably be a little bit confused, too, but I think he's going for it. And I like that, and I appreciate that.

Yeah, Wild Mountain Time is absolutely a movie that we need to do an episode on. And honestly, like, that wouldn't be a bad first episode, because what is Wild Mountain Time? are probably people listening to this episode right now, not knowing what it was, but like the week of people actually watching and writing about that movie was one of the most

joyous times during COVID. And I also feel like we wouldn't have to talk about COVID to talk about that movie. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that's absolutely right. What is your pick? I mean, my truest answer, the one that I think we should do an episode on first, that it would make a good episode with a lot to talk about would be the little things. I see. But because I've already provided that as an answer, I would probably say Ammonite. I mean, Ammonite makes all the sense in the world for us to do that. But the little things would be the best episode.

Just like having to watch it again is such a bummer to think about. I could watch it again with the intentions of, like, what we do here and, like, pick it apart and we could have some fun at that movie's expense. Yeah. Rather than watching it the first time, which was like, I have to seriously watch this because I have to seriously consider this. Yeah. Two different things. Two different things. Yeah, you're totally right.

No, but, like, Amonite, like, it's the classic. It's a classic this had Oscar buzz pick. my other one that I thought of was Malcolm and Murray because I think it's a interesting story we could talk about Zendaya and like she's a really interesting performer to talk about right now and it's such a loathsome movie to me that I really, I at least feel like I could get a whole head of steam about it

and it would probably be maybe not the most fun episode to listen to just because it's me just like ranting and raving about what a like ridiculous screenplay that thing is and how many... Well, I'd be less likely to pick that one just because I feel like that movie already has been completely picked apart. I agree with that. And I think it would be impossible to talk about it for our purposes without talking about COVID.

Oh, you think? More so than the other movies? Yeah, because it was the way it was shot, the way that it was released, like the whole like bidding war that happened over the movie. Yeah, I think that's a movie that's probably been sufficient. efficiently picked apart enough. I mean, like, I maybe didn't hate it as much as everybody did. It was just a really, like, even when it makes some salient points throughout that I think are

worthwhile, I still felt like leaving that movie. I just watched a guy scream at his girlfriend for two hours. Yes. You did. Spoiler, you did. Yeah. I hated it. I hated.

And I saw it a few weeks after the furor of it happened. So I was just like, all right, I'm going to get the bounce off of this. I'm going to get the, I was really oversold on how terrible it is. It can't be that bad. And then I watched it. And I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I'm absolutely furious at this movie for subjecting me to that to just sort of the rantings and ravings of somebody who's pissed about like three different things about his movie making career and decided to cloak it all in this, you know, this black character. so that they can, you know, be self-righteous about things that...

And you're talking about Sam Levinson. Yeah, I'm talking about Sam Levinson. Who, like, has no, you know, no right to that brand of self-righteousness. It's... Whatever. Yeah, you're right. It's been talked over. But maybe in a year or two, it won't be. So, who knows?

There'll be more that comes out about the movie. A couple of movies that we haven't really talked about that I feel like we maybe should just touch on briefly. Yeah, we can run through the rest of the list. You liked I'm thinking of ending things more than I did. The further I got away from it, the less. That was probably, I watched it again, and I was like, this is maybe a one and done movie. I don't really need to watch this a lot.

Like, I think a lot of other people enjoyed figuring out where they were on it. And I had like a really succinct, like, I got everything out of it that I I needed to the first time. I figured out what it was doing for me the first time. And then when I revisited, I was like, okay, well, maybe I feel like it's because I feel like I get it. Not, I'm not like patting myself on the back for that, but like, it's just not working for me as much now that I feel like I've untangled its mess. Right. Though I do still think that, like, that should have gotten more than it did. I absolutely think that should have been a makeup nominee. I think Jesse Plemons and Jesse Buckley are great in it.

Don't think Tony Colette's great in it once I watch it again. I actually really liked Tony Colette the one time that I saw it. I was frustrated with almost everything else. It bums me out that I am not on the Jesse Buckley train with everybody else because everybody else seems to be having a really, really great time on that train, enjoying the, you know, cocktail car and, you know, mingling and chatting and whatever. and I remain just a little, you know, outside of that whole realm, which is too bad for me, and that's what matters.

Yeah, I mean, predictably, Charlie Kaufman movies, much as I think he's an incredible talent, and I've loved certainly many of the films that he's written. Obviously, Eternal Sunshine of the Spallest Mind is one of my favorite movies. ever, I think unadulterated Charlie Kaufman, where he's not really leavened by another creative influence,

tends to be a lot for me. Even something like Synecichy, New York, which I find beautiful in bits and pieces is oppressive to me as a whole, and I know that's partly the point, but also I really hated the experience of watching it. I didn't really like Anomalisa at all,

yeah me either I respect like the the artistry of the animation in that movie but I ultimately I think it's a wink yeah and that's I think where I came down with I'm thinking of any things too

again I'm happy for the people who got a lot out of it it was not my thing we briefly talked about on the rocks which like I definitely think should have gotten more attention as a screenplay. I really like On the Rocks. I think it got really dismissed immediately as like

the weakest Sophia Coppola movie. I think there's more going on in it than people give it credit for. I remember enjoying it when I watched it and then didn't really think about it very much after the fact. But I liked it. I liked the experience of watching it. I really liked Bill Murray. I thought Bill Murray was really, really kind of a delight in that movie. I didn't love Rashida Jones as much. I sort of had found myself wishing. it was another actress in that role and I like her in other things

so it's not like I just like don't like her but there were moments in that movie where I wish it was somebody else doing more with that role but I enjoyed my experience watching On the Rocks

and of course I love Sophia Coppola in general I liked Rashida Jones in that movie it's funny to me that this is the first time we're mentioning French exit on this episode because French exit is probably, like, third place for all of the, for a lot of the categories we mentioned.

And, like, I do probably think Michelle Pfeiffer was still close. I think it's just Sony Classics. Maybe they put most of their effort behind The Father, but, like, if their movies existed at all, and, like, a lot of people were saying, The Father is a movie that is seemingly real before the nominations happened. And, like, I didn't quite feel that way because I'd seen it a while ago. But, like, I get why people say that. Like, and French Exit, especially, because, like, its release is going to be six months after it played New York Festival. Yeah.

So I'm curious to revisit it. It's one of those things that's diminished in my mind, too. Yeah. French Exit's a movie I really liked at the time, although even, like, my experience of watching it, I, it was a real journey to liking it. I think by the end I sort of surprised myself with coming out of it, liking it, because that wasn't the case for the entire running time of it. I was surprised that Pfeiffer was getting the early buzz that she was getting,

not because she wasn't great, because she is, and she always is, but like especially in that movie, she's really, really good. But it's such, even for people who liked that movie, it makes you work to like it and it is not on its face a likable film and those are always going to be hard sales with Oscar especially you know in that kind of genre and I was always surprised that she sort of stayed in the race as long as she did because I can't imagine too many Oscar voters in the midst of all the other screeners that they're sitting down with sitting down with French exit and being

sort of, you know, captivated by it or delighted by it. I still think Valerie and I'm happy. Its problems are real problems. Like, there's whole characters that do not need to be in there. Yeah. It gets kind of maudlin in a way that, like,

affected me. Like, I was on the wavelength of the movie, even though I could also at the same time feel it pushing really hard for me to feel that way. Yeah. I still am super, super psyched. that Valerie Mahaffey got a Independent Spirit Award nomination for supporting actress. She's incredible.

I loved her in that. And I was just like, this is one of those things that I love her, but no, like, she doesn't stand a chance anywhere else. And the only place that she would have stood a chance was the Independent Spirit Awards, and they gave her that nomination. And I was very happy about that. So there was that. Moving along to the way back, Ben Affleck's football coach movie.

This was a movie that, like, I'm still shocked that it got as much. leeway with critics as it did. I thought it was bad. I did too. Some of it is maybe a hang up for me that I'm like, it's a sports thing that like I don't understand why we're supposed to root for this man screaming at these children just because that's what a coach is. I could not get past that.

I was like, this is just, he's just screaming at these kids. I don't think it's enough of a sports movie to be like that to get me captivated by the sports movieness of it all. It needs to be more of a sports movie. It wasn't. It was... And it's pretty basic as far as the things about it that are not sports. And that's what surprised me that people were giving him Affleck,

I mean, a lot of credit for that. And I'm just like, it's really going through the paces of like a dozen movies I've seen before. Gone Girl is metacasting for Ben Affleck that really works and improves the movie, and this is not that. It's like metacasting

that is very facile. What else haven't we talked about? We kind of talked about The Invisible Man. We disagree on that movie. Palm Springs is something that at one point felt like could have been an original screenplay nominee. It's good that it got the Globes attention, so someone could pay attention to it, but they didn't nominate Kristen Melotti.

Which is too bad because she really deserved it. She really deserved that nomination. She's really wonderful in that movie. I would have really liked a screenplay nomination for Palm Springs. I think it's a really, it was, again, the last movie I saw in a theater. I really, really loved it. And just the experience of it, I think it was just like a really, a fun movie that felt satisfying at the same time. And I look back and I'm just like, man, I didn't know how good I had it.

And, yeah, I've been looking forward to revisiting it. I haven't really had enough time to rewatch kind of anything. this year, but that's definitely at the top of my list in terms of movies to rewatch just because I had such a good time with it the first time. I didn't love it, but I did really think Krista Malotti was great. Next movie, Personal History of David Copperfield. I was the jerk about this movie, though, like, I'm still not surprised that it didn't get nominated, even though if it was a costume nominee, it might be deserving. I'm a little surprised it didn't get a costume nomination. I guess it didn't really have a lot of buzz elsewhere. So, like,

I guess I can't be too surprised. And, like, if it was that movie or Emma, like, Emma's got Alexandra Byrne costumes and looks amazing. So, like, I'm not surprised there. But, like, again, did we need Pinocchio as an Oscar nominee? No, we didn't. And so, you know, Copperfield could have gone there, and I would have been happy because, again, I'd already seen David Copperfield, so I wouldn't now have to see another movie.

We both don't have to fucking watch Pinocchio. Fucking Pinocchio. I know. King of Staten Island, the early talk of Pete Davidson, I think we can all agree that that was not real. I'm still amazed that we got out of a Golden Globes without getting him nominated. I'm very happy about that, but kind of surprised. So good for us.

Speaking of Golden Globes, I care a lot. That was something that of the surprise, at least at that time, surprise, Globe wins. That was the one I was like, that's not going to be an Oscar nominee. Sure. Well, and again, and it was in musical or comedy, so, like, those ones have less of an expectation

that that's going to translate. Well, and I think because she beat Fyfer and Bacalova, people thought for a second that that be something, but then I think they watched the movie, and they were like, oh, right, no. she's an incredibly talented actress and she works in that like terrifying American woman of the present day milieu really and well um I do like that her take on playing American is just to be like scary as fuck like cool um I did not enjoy the experience

of watching I care a lot and even in a way that like I knew going in that it was going be dark, and I knew that it was going to be mean. And I was all ready for all of that. And even given that, my main takeaway from my care a lot was you have this really kind of fascinating concept of that there is this process in the world where people are taking advantage of, you know, loopholes and insufficiencies in the legal system and in the health care system to do some really, really, like, shady shit and, you know, harm people's lives. And I'm like, this is fascinating. And if you're going to give me this and with this, you know, amoral character, who's going to be my main character, cool, I am up for this challenge. Why then do you take pains to set up this

premise and then turn it into I've got to fight for my life from this mobster movie which again I've seen a kick-ass movie. A billion of those. Why do I want to watch this movie? Yeah. It's just like it didn't feel like it had confidence in its own

satire not even anti-hero but just like despicable character that you is like a fun performance from a performer you like. It doesn't have to become ha-ha, Violence is funny type of movie.

Right. And also it's just like, again, like, oh, like you set up this premise and then it's like, you almost get scared of it because like, well, we got to throw in like, what if she runs a foul of a mobster? And then that's where, you know, it's like, it's my thing. People are shooting oxygen tanks and. Yeah. I always, I always bring up. And that's a punchline. I mean, yeah.

I always bring up three men and a baby in this context. And I think three men and a baby ultimately is, you know, that's a movie that works. But it always feels funny to me that there is a drug smuggling subplot in the middle of three men and a baby that like the movie fully gives itself over to for about 25 minutes. And it's just like, did you not think that the idea of three single men in New York raising a baby was a strong enough concept that you needed to like throw in a drug smuggling subplot for some of this? Because we were going to, you know, we're going to lose our attention. It always seems so silly to me that that's in that movie. movie. And I think about that a lot when other movies seem to lose their nerve and, like, throw in something really, really basic, like a mobster subplot in a movie where this isn't

even a subplot in I care a lot. Like, this is just like, we're just going to hand our entire movie over to this gangster plot. And it just lost me. It just fully lost me. Yeah. I guess to wrap up, the next movies are like the, like, the, like, critically acclaimed ones, the ones that we would be more reticent unless we could like have a good conversation about the awards race because we don't want to be like throwing egg on the face of some of these movies. Agreed. Never rarely sometimes always.

I really felt at a certain point that it was going to be a screenplay nominee and then it just feels like it really hit a wall. Yeah. Um, and Eliza Hitman posted like some of the emails she got from Oscar voters, which like some people were aghast and surprised at. And I'm like, I'm not surprised that there's people in the academy that would send her nasty emails, um, because of their beliefs. Um, like, I, I don't have the illusion that they are all on the right side of politics. Um, right. That's a movie that we both kind of didn't embrace as much as everybody else. I, feel like for me that is foremost a directing achievement um though when I watched it again I liked it a little bit more

did you that was not the movie to watch early in the pandemic and respect to I appreciate the nerve of never rarely sometimes always I appreciate the unflinchingness of some of its scenes I think the scene that everybody talks about which is the one that the movie gets its title from

is justly praised as being incredibly um bracing and unflinching and the fact that it's a movie that takes on this subject matter of a girl having to cross state lines to go get an abortion because the health system fails, these girls time and again, is a good and, and it sounds stupid to say courageous, but courageous, a story and necessary story to tell. I almost consistently throughout the movie, with, again, exceptions like the scene that I talked about, found myself less impressed with both the filmmaking and the performances.

And I know the performances were like really, really highly regarded, but I think the movie really relies on silence and stillness in a way where like at some point I started to get diminishing returns on what the silences of this movie could communicate to me. this is why I think it's more of a directing achievement than like a performance one for me even though like this is the most I've liked in Eliza Hitman movie I should say like I think and I've seen all over movies they all kind of rely on a certain amount of projection onto the characters and assuming certain things or like bringing your own history or your own baggage that you can it almost feels like her movies are designed to have that and maybe if that works for some people that's fine for me I want to know who some of these people are and like it works best for never rarely sometimes always because it's so fiercely political that like part

of the point is we shouldn't have to know specifics to um to like be on the side of this girl and And, like, I'm already on the side of this girl before I watch the movie. So, like, I guess that works a little bit less for me. But, like, the amount to which I feel like we are asked to project our own feelings or our own experiences sometimes even, I definitely felt that with Beach Rats. For, like, these characters that aren't, don't really feel like complete people to me. Yeah. That's something I struggle with with her movies, though there's a, I was impressed by a, lot of this movie.

Yeah. The next one, which I feel like fully got ignored, and part of it is because, like, this movie came out in January, like, well enough before the pandemic that by the time the pandemic hit, it had kind of left theaters. Right. The assistant, which is an incredible movie. I loved the assistant. I thought the assistant was really fantastic.

Julia Garner's performance, I wish had shown up more places. I think both of us really loved the Matthew McFadjave. performance, one scene wonder kind of a performance in that movie. Really fantastic. The way those performances impact each other.

I was so blown away by. But this is, again, I talk about the way that perspective shifts. When this movie came out, we didn't think we were going to be shut down for a year. And so we looked at that movie through the lens of, oh, this is a really good, really small movie that doesn't

really have an awards future because it's really small, but we can praise it and sort of talk about like the best movie you've not heard of or whatever. And it gets sort of put into that box, whereas if it had been released in June or September, do you know what I mean? We would have been looking at it differently. And I, again, does it get Oscar nominations? Still probably not, I guess. But you never know. It maybe shows up more places. It's a pretty I don't want to say grueling, like, it's hard to watch, but, like, that movie holds you in a vice for 90 minutes.

Yes, it does. And it's incredibly well made. I'm really excited to see whatever Kitty Green makes after this. I absolutely agree. Yes, totally. We talked about The Nest, both in this episode a little bit, but then also we talked about it in our All the Kingsmen episode, which, I can't remember which one of these two comes out first, Chris.

Whichever gets edited first, probably. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so if we've already talked about The Nest on our All the Kingsmen episode, we'll just say it again. This movie fucking rules. And while it doesn't entirely surprise me that this didn't get latched on to, because it is a movie that works to confound the audience a little bit, both on a story level and a genre level. I really, I don't think I'm alone in not realizing when this movie takes place for a little bit. while in this movie. I think it's supposed to keep you a little bit in the dark in terms of what exactly kind of a movie you're watching. And I think it is very intentionally mimics the beats

and the rhythms and the moods of a ghost story. Like a lot of this movie reminded me of the others while I was watching it. And I don't think that's accidental. I think Sean Durkin is really, really talented at taking non-horror stories and presenting them as horror stories as commentaries I mean like Martha Marcy May Marlene almost plays like a slasher movie

100% including like there's one scene where like Maria Dizia shows up in frame and it's like a jump scare and that is not a movie that you would think it would have a jump scare in it but like it's I think he's incredibly talented

and I said if Sean Durkin ever decides to just legitimately make a horror movie it's over for us hose because like he's going to scary this movie ever Exactly, exactly, yeah. I also think the nest is, and maybe this is why it leaves a lot of people cold. I think it's a movie that's not necessarily interested in being conclusive or, like, spoon-feeding you, how to feel about the journey these people go on with, like, their relationship to, like, wealth climbing and privilege. And I think that's pretty rare these days.

And it was in a way that, like, I think there is at least, like, satisfying conclusion that it provides, like, as a story, but, like, doesn't tell you how to think about its themes, in a way that I find really complex. And I think comes alive in Carrie Coon's performances in ways that are just, like, so exciting to watch. Yes. Well, and again, for a movie that is decently challenging. It also rewards you with things like Carrie Coon being drunk and amazing in a restaurant or... Dancing to Don't Leave Me This Way. Carrie Coon dancing at a disco to Don't Leave Me This Way. Like, for God's sake, it is just like there are moments of pure pleasure that are speckled through this movie that, like, is meant to leave you a little bit off balance.

And, oh, God, it's so good. Oh, my God. I'm broken record, but that's so good. Yeah. Another one that, like, I wonder with this one if they had had a larger distributor, if this could have gotten further. And that's Miss Juneteenth, who I love Nicole Bihari and this, like, second only to Carrie Coon this year in terms of lead actresses performances for me. It's like, it felt a lot like if a Sony classics had had it and they could have made like a Junebug situation for Nicole Bihari. It's harder to do that with a lead performance. But yes. It's harder to do that, I think, with a lead performance than like with what Junebug was able to do

with a supporting performance for Amy Adams. I am incredibly encouraged by the fact that it did get four Independent Spirit Award nominations won the Gotham Award for Best Actress for Nicole Bihari. If this movie does nothing else, but sort of launched Nicole Bihari into her next big role, it will have been a worthwhile success.

I think that's the function that it would have performed in a regular year anyway, right? Where it's like it's a small indie movie, but it puts Nicole Bihari on the radar of people who are making movies. And hopefully, you know, knock on wood, and we know that like the opportunities for actresses of color are not as plentiful as they should be, And hopefully the added attention that Ms. Juneteenth got in a COVID year was able to, you know, give her more of a boost.

Mm-hmm. Really good movie. Anything else you want to throw in the ring as potential or-movies. Yeah. Way more than I thought we would be able to. Exactly. Again, we kept being like, do we have enough movies to do a class of 2020? And now again, it's like 25 movies I'm looking at.

It's just like, okay, all right, we did. We had enough. I think it's a really great set of Oscar nominees that we got is the other thing I just want to say. I think it's a, you know, quibble here and there, yes. But I think on balance, I think it's a really great slate of Oscar nominees. And I'm glad that in such an odd year that it resulted in good things for good movies. and hopefully all these movies are very available. That's the other thing.

For as much as people sort of like whined a little bit about, you know, movies that weren't opening until the end of February being Oscar nominees and not really, to my eye, not really considering the fact that like... Which is the same calendar. It would have fallen under a normal year. Exactly. ...of Oscar nominations and when the ceremony was and what would be in theater. A February movie this year was a November movie and a regular year.

Like, it's fine. This is how it works. But like now that all these nominations are available, with the exception of, I think, really, the father, and weirdly now because of HBO Max's dumb little theatrical window rule, now Judas and the Black Messiah is not available to stream yet, because its little availability window ran out like on the day of the Oscar nominations, which is dumb. If this isn't out by then, the father is available on the 26th, I believe, of March. but everything else you can go and watch somewhere now like today so take advantage of that because it's a really really great slate of nominations and they're almost all there for the taking in almost all of the categories it's still really hard to find the foreign language film nominations nominees but like other than that just like find these things because they're really really good movies and also filialogy And none for Gretchen Wieners of this year So glad we don't have to

That's the weird thing of this year That I'm like Do I want to have to watch I knew I would eventually have to watch it Either for this or for the movie So it's like Do I want to have to watch it again And then spend two hours of my life dissecting this movie

It's going to be the last thing It's going to be the last thing that I see For my ranking It's going to be I'm deciding it now I'm making it the last thing that I see All right well then there you go

There we go All right I think that is our bonus episode If you want more This Head Oscar Buzz You can check out the Tumblr at this headoscarbuzz

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