This Had Oscar Buzz - Class of 2021

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

We finally have this year’s set of Oscar nominations, so that means it’s time for our Class of 2021 episode! This episode, we look back on the almost-was of the past awards season with films that received zero Oscar nominations, including in categories of Most Forgettable, Happiest Miss, and Saddest Snub. We also add a … Continue reading "Class of 2021"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. The nominees for performance by an actress in a leading role. Jessica Chastain in the eyes of Tammy Faye.

Olivia Coleman in The Lost Daughter. Penelope Cruz in Parallel Mothers. Nicole Kidman in Being the Ricardos. And Kristen Stewart in Spencer. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that Patrizio Regiani sends flies after, even though she's not dead. Every week on This Head Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we are here to perform the autopsy, except for this week we are here marking the year, the final Oscar nominations for the year, which means we're doing the class of 2020. for this had Oscar Buzz.

I am your host, Chris Fyle. I'm here, as always, with my spicy meat-de-ball, Joe Reed. It's a me. You have been a Gucci all your life. It's crazy to me that the biggest snub of the year is still a nominee. Like, it's wild to me that House of Gucci is going to go down as, you know, snub-a-rama. And that little... I was trying to think of that little makeup nominee.

Yeah, that's what. would have been in recent years, something that like got almost entirely shut out. Weirdly... It's usually things like Mary Queen of Scots that it's like it feels like this was the big bomb of the Oscar year that still is an Oscar

nominee, but it gets like multiple nominations. I can't think of a movie off the top of my head that it's like, you got one. Well, the thing that I almost... An acting nominee, which if you get an acting nomination, that feels more major than what happened at the House of

Gucci. It's a totally different tone, and it's almost not worth comparing. But like in 2014, when Selma got snubbed for everything but best picture and song, of course. But like, but in terms of like major categories, everything but best picture. That was at least a thing too. It was just like, the storyline was the snub. And then you're like, but it's a best picture nominee. And well, my comparison was the two times that Michael Shannon was nominated, both for Nocturnal Animals and Revolutionary Road, which is like, yes. those movies were bandied about for much more and his nomination was surprising, but still it's an acting nomination. Well, and that would be almost like if House of Gucci didn't get

anything, but then like Pacino showed up surprisingly in supporting actor or something like that, which I would support, by the way. That would have been a good nomination. Best performance in the movie. Does it seem to you, this is totally off topic, does it seem to you that like you're seeing more Dunkicino in your timeline recently than you used to? Hello, him dancing to whatever he's listening to on his headphones. I would like to think that it's this at Oscar Buzz. He's dancing to our themes. I mean, he's rocking out to hot chocolate for sure.

But it just, even before that, I was like, there's a weird uptick of Dunkinio in my Twitter existence these days. And then those photos came out. Don't make it take his glasses off. He's Appuccino. That was another great moment. Okay, can we do, while we're on the subject of House of Gucci, can we just do like a quick in-memorium to the entire House of Gucci press blitz.

It's wonderful to be in the Oscars conversation. You know, Patritia Rajani, Patritia Gucci. Well, I, you know, I went to acting school when I was really young. So, and I didn't take film and television classes. I took theater classes. And I feel like I put in. a cauldron, like a witch, all the things about myself that were her. And I left out anything that wasn't. And then I filled in all the gaps with a biography that I did.

I studied Lee Strasbourg method and Stanislovsky, which is what Lee Strasbourg's derived from. I also studied Meisner Technique, Stella Adler. I went to Circle in the Square. I wrote a letter to myself. And I said, I don't need you anymore. Is anyone ever, do you ever drink the proctor? and actually feel drunk, even though they're not real. I do. It's because Donatella and I are like sisters. I spent a lot of time talking this way, just as Stephanie, myself. My name, my Italian name, Stefania.

The way that I would explain it to you is if I were to call you on the phone, I would have spoken to you just like this. I wouldn't have pretended that I'm Patricia. You just would have been like, oh, I'm on the phone with Patricia. I need only the parts of you that are meaningful for Patricia. We would be all worse off if we didn't have it. I know we all, some people got more angry at Lady Gaga than others. Or more annoyed with her than others.

But I think I do feel like enough people sort of appreciated it for what it is, which is a burlesque of Oscar campaign. And I do kind of have a hard time believing that she was serious this whole time. I think she was a little bit taking the piss out of things like DiCaprio saying that he, you know, almost died on the revenant or whatever. Well, this is also, this is always the thing with Lady Gaga is how much of it is a performance and how much of it is her just being like a really overly earnest theater kid. And it is a combination of both. And sometimes I would believe it if you told me that she didn't always know. where on what side of the line she was falling because I agree you know that one Jenna Maroni line where she's just like I'm waiting for them to have a category for living theatrically at the Tonys and I'm just like that's Lady Gaga like Lady Gaga deserves an award for living theatrically and and she gave us so much well I also think like

there's a certain extent where I don't think the Academy cares if you're being tryhard about something no right they more so kind of wants you to want it but I I do think that a lot of her fuckery on her campaign is why she's not nominated. Well, and this is going to be one of... I think it hit the tipping point of people being like, okay, enough. Yes. Like, right as voting was happening. And that tipping point was the video about drinking your prop beverages and thinking it's alcohol.

The looks on all of those other women's faces, I felt like was plausibly indicative. of, you know, the vibe, maybe towards her. Penelope Cruz biting her lip. Jennifer Hudson clutching her pearls. That's my favorite look. That was my favorite look. The only time Kirsten Dunst has felt like the mean girl maybe. Oh, man.

So funny. Not the mean girl, but you know the person in the room who's the closest to saying the thing everyone is thinking, even though it might be mean to do so. It was magical, though. The whole thing was magical. I was really just such a big fan of it the whole way through. I hope we get more Oscar campaigning like this. But yeah, I think you're right.

I think the idea of it's a delicate balance. This is also, though, Best Actress 2021 is going to be one of those categories that I automatically jumps to the top of my list of I would love to see the voting breakdown for this. Because the fact that so many. women were in play up until the last minute, the fact that... I don't think Gaga was even sixth. I think she might have been like seventh. Who would you imagine was sixth?

Up and... I was really starting to think that... I mean, I kind of didn't expect Kristen Stewart to get in, but I think it was Jennifer Hudson. I expected Stewart to get in, but I also expected Jennifer Hudson to get in. I was hoping for Penelope Cruz, but I was not putting her in my predictions. But yeah, I think Hudson was definitely pretty high up there. We'd love to see where Gaga finished.

I do think like fourth through eighth was probably all very close. That's what I have to feel like. Yeah, it's not just like who was on the list, but like how thin those margins were. I feel like it would be really interesting to see that. But yeah, I think you're right. I think Coleman and Kidman probably ahead of everybody and then a real scrum for those other three nominations. Well, and I'm hoping to write about this, but like it does feel like the best actress race of 20 years ago in that, like, as a recording right now, you know, we haven't had any of the major precursors,

and the globes basically don't count anymore. But, like, it does feel like a year where we could get a different winner at every ceremony. Which is sort of what we had last year, too, remember, because Francis won, no, Audra Day won the Globe, Viola Davis won the SAG, Carrie Mulligan won the BAFTA? No. Carrie won something in the late stages, I feel like. Hold, please. I can look this up. Yeah, thanks.

But I feel like there was like a big spread last year of everybody kind of got something distinct, which was pretty cool, except for Vanessa Kirby, who was thrilled to be nominated, which is no shade. I just mean that, like, it was a good career bump for Vanessa Kirby to get that best actress nomination, even though no one's going to remember that movie. Yeah, no one's going to remember that movie. But people already don't remember that movie. and no shade to Vanessa Kirby. They do not remember that performance. I think that person this year could just as easy, Jessica Chastain could just as easily Vanessa Kirby this year as she could be the eventual winner, I think.

But I think Jessica Chastain's advantage in terms of, like, memorability is, is a lot higher than Vanessa Kirby's. Like, it's going to be hard to forget that performance because it's so big and theatrical and, you know, playing a real person and all this sort of stuff. I do feel like we got the best case scenario of the five nominees that were plausible. I would not have been mad at a Lady Gaga nomination, but, like, of those performances, I couldn't rank her performance ahead of any of those five who got nominated. Well, and also, it's like the best actress lineup that we were maybe thinking it would be, like, a few months ago.

Yeah. Like, it's the best case scenario or. to it, and, you know, it feels like the scrum of the past maybe two months didn't mean anything. By the way, last year, Globes went to Andrew Day and Rosman Pike. Viola Davis got SAG, Francis got BAFTA, and then Carrie Mulligan got Critics' Choice and Indy Spirit. That's what it was. The Indy Spirit was the late one that I was thinking of, but Critics' Choice as well. Yeah. So it was a real interesting spread last year, which would love more years like that. So if that's how this year shakes out, too, it'll be good. I thought it was

generally a really good set of Oscar nominations, even though when everybody went around sort of ranking their best picture choices, I realized that, like, best picture is maybe my weak link of a category where I only really love maybe the top four, and then everything else I'm either middling on or don't like. Yeah, best picture is the one where I'm like, okay, I'm happy broadly with the Oscar nominations the top ones are really top. I don't love this best picture lineup. My very, very favorites of the year are on it.

So, like, Power of the Dog is there. West Side Story is there. I still need to see drive my car, but I have every faith that I will really love it. And once then I get past... Oh, in Dune, which I also really love. And then once I get past that, it's like I have to confront the fact that I do like Belfast a lot better than a lot of other people do.

I wanted to like Coda more than I did like Coda, but I was like, I think my expectations were higher on Cota than it ended up being. King Richard, I think, has significant flaws. Nightmare Alley, I think, is super boring. Lickrish Pizza, I am outside of the cult of that, and don't look up as bad. Yeah, I mean, like, my tops would be obviously power the dog and drive my car, and I like licorice pizza and West Side Story. But beyond that, I'm like, I either have middling feelings. or, like, outright negative feelings about everything else.

And, like, my weakest would easily be Belfast. Yeah, yeah, you and I are opposite on that one. But I think the acting categories are pretty great, actually. And even some of the surprises, like, I know Javier Bardem was nobody's choice for what they wanted in best actor. But if the other big contender was DiCaprio and don't look up, I'm glad it went this way. So I'm just still surprised that Javier Bardem was campaigned in lead. I don't think he's a lead of that movie. Oh, I do.

I think he's, I think there's a lot of... He has like a few big moments, but like he's not in that movie that much. I don't know. I think there's so much of that movie that is sort of two-hander between the two of them in terms of like their relationship and their, you know, how they negotiate sort of power dynamics in their relationship. and then he also has his moments where he's sort of wrangling with the studio people on his own. I support that as a league nomination. Maybe I'd have to see it again. But, like, I felt like even their stuff together was so, like, wholeheartedly, like, from Lucy's perspective

and, like, Lucy's doing all of the, like, heavy lifting Sork and speak in all of those. I think campaigning Bardem in supporting actor would have been a real, I think. You wouldn't have that J.K. Simmons nomination. Yeah, but I think Simmons probably deserves his nomination more than Bardom deserves his. But I don't mind that Simmons nomination. I think he's actually, I think he actually is. I think it's unsurprising that he got that nomination. Oh, fully.

As much as everybody else was like, wow. I was like, no, that was one of those ones. Again, Esther and I talked about it when we were on that Twitter spaces on nomination date. Like that screening that we saw with all the guild members loved J.K. Simmons. Like, that was very, very much not surprising. But I was glad that, like, ingenue Ellis got nominated because I was really kind of worried that she was going to be left out. I was glad that, I'm trying to look around this. I mean, Garfield wasn't going to miss, but I was still just, like, exhaled a little bit when that nomination happened.

Because, like, a year ago, that would have felt so unlikely to me. Right, right, right. I was glad that Kristen Stewart made it because that was certainly in question. I don't love Jesse Buckley, but like, whatever. There were two other people in The Lost Daughter I would have nominated ahead of her, but... I agree. It's still an interesting nomination. It feels very Sally Hawkins getting the nomination for Blue Jasmine to me, and that it's like,

probably zero chance of winning. This is a performer who probably should have been nominated for better work. in previous movies over this performance, but, like, if it means that this is a performer who's now in the Oscar fold, I'm fine with it. Sure, sure, sure. I get that. I get that. One day, I will get on the Jesse Buckley train for something, but not today. Maybe it will be entirely subtly titled. We have no idea what this movie is about, even though it's giving us a mystery box, like, teaser trailer. Men. Men. All right.

If it wasn't for that title, I would be on board for this movie, but it's like, thank you for telling me everything about what your allegory is by just titling your movie, men. I want them to program men and nope in a double feature in that order. So once again, the trailer is dropping tomorrow, and it is probably my most anticipated movie of the year. Can't wait for Nope. I have nothing negative to say about Nope. I'm excited for Nope. At least ahead of the trailer. I'm excited for Nope. I'm also excited for men. Like I am also like I, Alex Garland has earned my trust at this point.

So. But we're not here to talk about the ones who were nominated, Chris. I'm sure we'll pepper our conversation with a little bit more discussion of the actual nominees throughout. But as we are here to do, we're here to talk about movies that got no nominations or for the most part. We, we have some recurring categories. I brought in a new category because I thought it would be interesting. based on this year. Maybe it won't be as interesting in the future.

But... Class of 2021. Class of 2021. I think broadly, there's less movies than there have been in recent years. Like in our big master spreadsheet

of titles and such, I feel like this is going to be not as deep of a column as like 2018, 2019 were I think that's probably true. And last year, it was a weird thing where everything seemed possible because the bar... And that's a year we'll probably avoid doing movies on anyway. That's probably true.

Although it'll be interesting in maybe several years to kind of like dip back into that. But this felt like a return to the more traditional places we would look to for Oscar buzz. And some of these movies that missed had like early festival buzz. And some of these had like, early festival buzz. And some of these had, like, year ahead sort of rose-colored glasses stuff. Some of these ones were, a couple of them were, like, late-breaking. Maybe they could get in there. I'm thinking of, like, Mahershala Ali and Swan Song, which was something that I think a few people had convinced themselves was a possibility, and that that ultimately didn't happen.

Or I was still, I didn't think it would happen, but there was still a small part of me that I was like, maybe Nicholas Cage and Pig could happen. Yeah, I think they missed the window of opportunity for that, though. Unfortunately, it's such a good performance. I do feel like Nicholas Cage giving a performance of that caliber, because he makes, he peppers his career with such other crap that, like, it is a shooting star that we really do need to grab on to whenever we get the chance and we didn't. I do ultimately think if that's not a summer movie, that movie has a completely different, or if it's not released in summer, like, if that had been released in the fall, I think it would have had a whole other. different awards life than it did. Imagine that movie being a TIF movie in a traditional TIF year where people are like in town.

Like people would really, that would have been a great word to mouth movie. Right? Right. Yeah. That's too bad. So let's get into our categories then. Yes. Kicking us right off the Cake Memorial Award for our happiest miss, the movie we are most happy, did not get an Oscar nomination.

So my choice for this is less schadenfreude and more mercenary, which is, you know, I have to watch all of the nominated movies so that I can do my rankings. And you don't want to watch something. Last year was a horror show of me being unprepared. And part of that was the pandemic depression on Wii, where I was just like, I'm not seeing that until I have to. And then all of a sudden it was like, I have 20 movies I need to see. before the Oscars. And this year it was only seven, which I was very happy with. I felt much better prepared. I think participating in Sundance helped and participating in TIF, which I wasn't able to do the year before, helped. So that was nice. The one movie I was certain I was going to have to watch, and now I don't have to, is respect. And I'm glad that that is the case. no shade against Jennifer Hudson, specifically, and certainly no shade against Audra McDonald, who was a queen.

Andrew McDonald is in that movie for four minutes. That's sort of what I felt like. After watching that trailer, I'm like, is this all we're seeing of Audra McDonald in this movie? Like, maybe so. I'm just so weary of the musician biopic at this point. I feel like the beats of those movies are so well-worn. We never see anything interesting. They always feel like such a chore.

even something like the Billy Holiday movie last year were like even with Lee Daniels like Lee Danielsing it up. Even that felt like a chore. It was so long and it was so just like I did not it was a slog and I was like

and respect sort of was waiting down the road as like the latest biopic of a musician to follow these same exact beats and I'm just really glad that I can push that one off for you know if it's on television or something. and I come across it.

I've been seeing a lot of tweets about people watching that movie on a plane. Oh, that's interesting. And it makes total sense because it's long enough to occupy it's like two and a half hours long, I think. That's another movie that I'm like, if they hadn't released that in the summer, it probably would have had more heat around it. But you're not wrong about the musical biopic thing. I feel that way about musical documentaries. It's like this last Sundance, like I'll be honest, I didn't even consider.

watching the Chenate O'Connor one, even though a lot of people say that it's quite good, because, like, I'm just relinquishing myself from musical documentaries, unless they're doing something actually interesting, like Summer of Soul does. The thing about respect is, like, it really kind of is everything you expect in that regard of a musical biopic, but there's, like, sequences of it that kind of look shitty and cheap. Yeah. Jennifer Hudson is great, but to what end? Yeah. What I was really worried about was like, because I was so concerned with the best actress. And I'm like, if this miss is best actress but then still gets best song, I'm going to be like even more annoyed because I don't know. A lone best song nominee that makes you watch something you don't want to watch, hello, bad Glenn Close, Milakunis movie that I'm going to have to watch that I still can't remember the title.

that is always the most annoying to me and I really thought respect was going to do that to me and it didn't so yes what is your pick for this category I had a lot of options certain things like I do think maybe the worst movie I saw this whole season was the tender bar

oh right you know that was really only ever in discussion for Ben Affleck and like if I'm even on the upswing with Ben Affleck, then, like, we're in a real place, guys. So I don't necessarily want to shit on Ben Affleck. So many people on Oscar Morning were, like, justice for the last duel. And I was like, in what universe did you think the last duel was going to get nominated? Like, at this stage in the game, I get maybe a month or two ago being like, it's too bad that the last duel isn't in the conversation.

Because I like that movie. But I really like that movie, actually. Like, it was in my top 10 this year. But, like, I'm a realist. and that'll be an interesting option for the future of like talking how that movie went down that yes well put a pin in that because it's maybe going to come up a little bit later but i just feel like people like ben afflick should have been nominated for the last duel i'm like i agree with you but like in no sane universe was that ever going to happen so like what are we talking about here what are we wasting our energy on there's there's other things that i would put here like you and i are incredibly uh divided on mass yes we're But, like, I think that's a bad, bad movie. You danced your little jig that it did not get nominated. And, like, maybe if that had, like, screenplay action going around it, I would think about it for this category.

But, like, it really was only ever for the actors. And at the end of the day, if it had got an acting nomination for that movie, I hate, fine. You're going to be so mad when that wins best for screenplay at the Spirit Awards. Over, like, some other good stuff. Yes, I will be not pleased about that. But my actual choice for this is a movie that died pretty quickly after it premiered. And, like, I was bracing for this to, like, be a potential career play for its lead actor when it's like, I hated, it's a remake and I hated the original. And this is maybe slightly better.

But, like, I just think it's kind of a toxic movie and, like, rubs the audience's nose and shit for no real reason. Are you leading up to Stillwater? Is that what you're doing? No, I'm leading up to The Guilty. Oh, God. I'm glad that that movie is completely forgotten. I'm sure our listeners forgot that it existed. Into the absolute abyss of Netflix movies that didn't get a serious campaign.

Yeah. Because it premiered at TIF and then was on Netflix a few weeks after. And then, like, when their season really kind of picked up, you know, it was just a non-entity. And I'm very happy about that. This is a thing I feel like maybe we should talk about when we look ahead towards next year, which is the Netflix problem of they have so many movies. And when they decide that they are going to really ride for you as an awards contender, you're going to be in for something really good. If your power of the dog this year, it worked out for you. If you're the lost daughter, it worked out for you. If you're the

hand of God, it worked out for you. But if they, if that movie dropped, on the platform in September or October, they're probably not giving you a big push, which is what happened with passing. And passing they did some for, but like... Passing they did more than they did for like the harder they fall or certainly the guilty.

I think they did a lot for the harder they fall, though. Just for the song I feel like, though. I feel like that was the only I feel like they were very concentrated in trying to get a song nomination. But they were booking it at their, they were booking it pretty regularly at their theaters like the Paris in New York and

That's true. And Jonathan Majors was in a bunch of campaigny stuff. He was on the actor roundtable and that kind of thing. I mean, I'm not saying they did as much as they did for Power of the Dog for it. But I think something like, I think just when you are not the Netflix priority, it feels very apparent. Whereas other studios have a smaller roster in general. So, you know, every studio has a top priority. But like I think places like maybe. search light, do a better job of, like, balancing that. Well, and I just think the sheer size of Netflix's lineups every year just make it really glaring that there are several movies that are just very much not their priority. Right. Next category, the Justice for Slaughter Race for Saddest Snub.

I love, by the way, that we've continued to call this category Justice for Slaughter Race because, like, every year it becomes... We feel very strongly about Justice for Slaughter Race. Every year it becomes farther and farther away of, like, what are we talking about? And, like, what we're talking about is, uh, what is the actual title of the song? Is a place called slaughter, a place called slaughter race? What's the title of that song? I do believe. Uh, from, um, uh, wreck at Ralph that we both thought should have been nominated for best original song, and we're going to still ride for it.

All right. What was your saddest snub, Chris? I could approach this from two ways. If I'm going to say singular snub, that was probably the only thing the movie was you know in the race for yeah like if I was going to go that way it would probably be a net for its original song campaign I thought it should have been

in the score race as well yeah but like thinking more broadly like the movie I'm saddest that like not just a nomination but was never really in the race at all because of the way it was positioned my answer for this is the humans and like yeah I didn't do a great

job with it either because like I left it off of my like top 25 list but like I think generally speaking that is a movie that deserved a much fairer shot than it got and there's a lot to like talk about and I think even the people who talked about it kind of reduced it to talking about Jane Howdy Shell who's great because I think all the performances in the movie are good yeah but like I didn't even think she was the top two performances in that movie Right. Well, The Humans is a very particular kind of Oscar failure story. I hate to really say it that way because it sounds mean to the movie. But there were a lot of things sort of converging on it. It's the movie with too many very good performances and no singular one that stands out over the other ones so much that it demands attention. and especially in a movie that is that small to have the ensemble be – it's a true ensemble movie

and to have everybody being on the level of, like, good to quite good. And I think you're right. I think a lot of people – some people had Jane Howdy Shell as their number one. Some people had Richard Jenkins as their number one. Some – I think you and I both have Amy Schumer as our best in show for that movie. Yep. And it's tough for that to break out, especially when you are a – small movie like that.

And it's the type of movie in an awards waste that kind of relies on acting nominations to push it forward and to get people to see it. Yes. But it's also like the movie doesn't capture those great performances in a way that like... Oh, right. It's filmed even just from a distance to the camera perspective. Like, yeah, like it's the movie doing its own thing, but still having these great performances in it. But like I think overall in the season, like,

Like, you didn't see, like, debut director nominations for Stephen Durham. Right, right. I think that movie just got screwed. It's also... Like, I would place a lot of it to A-24, kind of dumping it on Showtime. On Showtime, yeah. Which, like, has me feeling quite bleak about after Yang coming out next month. Everybody, if you can't see it in a theater, please just figure it out and watch it on Showtime.

I swear to God. Once that happened, once they made the decision to put the huge... out on Showtime. I think everybody wrote it off. And it's too bad. The other thing about the humans, though, is the kind of movie that it is, which is the always secretly low-key, the most tragic kind of movie, which is a movie that deserves craft nominations that doesn't seem like the kind of movie that would get craft nominations, like a small, you know, family drama like that doesn't ever scream like, this should be a sound nominee. But like, the Humans, one million percent should be a sound nominee. It doesn't scream like this should be a production design nominee, but like one billion percent it should. And those are the movies I feel the most frustration for, because it's just like you're just never going to convince someone that like the humans and Dune are on the same level

in terms of craft. And yet I absolutely think that they are. someone, let alone thousands of someone's to get in an awards nomination. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bummer. It's a bummer. Yeah. And I just worry about like this scale, not just this scale of movie, but like this scale of craftsmanship that's not that like it's, you can't call the movie not showy because what it's doing in its concept is very like clear and makes it clear to you. But like, I don't know. It doesn't work within. a certain formula, so it's not going to get that type of attention and because of that.

It demands close undivided attention. It demands watching it in a theater. Like, people talk about movies you have to see in theaters, your, you know, big action spectacles and whatever. And this is something that David Ehrlich said on fighting in the war room, I can't remember in what context, but I think when they were doing their top tens episode, he was just like, the movies that you really need to actually see in a theater, are the ones that demand a like sensory deprivation level of attention and that's like just the intention of getting out of the house and going to the theater like it sounds so simple yeah that's actually the hugest thing like you are reserving that chunk of time to this activity yes and

I think something like the humans if you're watching that on showtime in your living room in the middle of the day or whatever first of all the glare on your television is going to be lethal to that movie but second of all thousand percent it's just just you're, it, it really suffers from not having your absolute undivided, darkened movie theater attention. And I think that's true of a lot of movies, but you have to have showtime. Like people don't have showtime. Yeah. Real. Um, unless you. What about yours? Let's talk about your status. So one, I, I would initially sort of looking into the best actor race for this because there were a couple that, we talked about Nicholas Cage and Pig, that I was really,

really bummed that he didn't get a nomination for that. And I also was equally bummed that Simon Rex did not get nominated for Red Rocket. I wasn't, again, diluting myself into thinking that that was possible. But six months ago, or eight months ago, whatever, after the Cannes reception, and then certainly after I saw it, your little gold man prediction, right? He was. He was. He was. That would have been a real. And I stand, but I still think that's a really good prediction, even if it didn't happen, because I think I was absolutely on the money in terms of what that narrative was going to be. I think if that movie and his performance had gotten a bigger response in Cannes, it would have done a lot for this movie. But once I saw it, I was just like, yeah, this absolutely deserves to be nominated and it's going to have a tough time doing it, which is a bummer.

I think it's so, I think it's such a great performance, and I think it will be remembered as such. almost, you know, not necessarily better off for not getting nominated because, you know, this is Simon Rex's shot. I don't, it's, it's tough to be like, you know, he'll get him next time when this feels like, you know, such a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for him. But my actual choice for this category is, I think you are on the right track. Mine is a net, which I really did think it was possible that it was going to get a best song nomination. And it really should have. It could have opened the Oscar telecast and been cool as fuck.

they could have gotten, like, cameos to, like, do it. So it was up, it was being campaigned for So May We Start, which is the opening number to end that if listeners have seen that movie. And if you haven't, go see it. It's wild. It's more than just a puppet baby, but it is also a puppet baby. It is, it's a really, really good movie. And, yeah, so the opening number is just sort of, like, Adam Driver and Marion Cotillard, and they're, like, sort of band of singers sort of walking through the. city and accumulating people as they go and singing this opening number, which is about

starting a musical. So it's just like very like, it's metatextual. And you're, you're absolutely right. What a great idea for opening the Oscars you could have had with just like people like joining from the red carpet and like moving into the theater and joining from their seats. And yeah, it would have been great. I mean, what a fucking great movie. And like, the type of movie that like the academy's never going to go for it so it's like it would have felt really fucking cool yes if they if annette was an Oscar nominee in some way yeah I think ultimately that movie is screwed because Amazon both for television and film are not good at campaigning yeah but like if it was for Amazon that movie wouldn't probably exist um and it'll be like the last weird

movie Amazon ever makes because it was like the last one of like they've had a turnover at the highest levels of, you know, prime video. So you will never have another movie like that on Amazon. But it's also just a great movie that, like, again, dropped in the summer. And I think, you know, weirdos like us and like a lot of cinephiles still love that movie. But, like, it felt like it should have had more of a foothold on the season generally. 100%. I think it's a great choice.

100%. Yep. All right. So we're going to add a category because I added this category. for us because I feel like we've had a lot of listener responses about this, but also like wanting to know what we think about this. So we're adding the adversary in commerce award for film we wish we could cover on the podcast. Yeah. My choice for this is pretty basic and I could have gone off the beaten path, but like it's House of Gucci. A House

of Gucci episode would be everything we want out of this had Oscar Buzz episode. There's Ridiculousness. Consider this class of 2021 episode, our House of Gucci episode. Certainly. It's got ridiculousness. It's got great campaigning. It's got a variety of responses to the movie, which some people really liked it. Some people really hated it. Some people were in the middle, which is more like me. And I'm fascinated by what worked about it, what didn't work about it, what could have been better. We could have argued about Jared Leto, which would have been. interesting and fun. I always am kind of amused by seeing any time I advance any kind of positive opinion about that performance on Twitter, people get so mad at me, and I think it's very funny. See, the thing is, people have, there are people that think positively about that movie. I don't think there's a lot of people that love that movie. Like, there's not a lot of people who are necessary.

There are people who are passionate about Gaga. Yeah. And there are some people who are passionate about Jared Leto in that movie. Nobody's passionate about the movie. I've encountered a few people who really thought it was it was really great. It was really entertaining. And I'm not there, but I appreciate that take on it. I'm much more, I am much more aligned with the people who would love that movie than the people who think it's like irredeemable trash.

I mean, I think there are flashes of greatness in the movie where there's like points where I was like, oh, this is where the movie is going to lock in. And then it kind of dumps that idea. Or like, this is when the movie's going to be like, this is the thesis of this movie. And then it kind of dumps it. It's kind of unconscionable that Sama Hayek is in some of the more boring parts of the movie. Like, Sama Hayek should not be in the more boring parts of your movie. Like, that's insane. Stop that.

I mean, I think it's a movie that's as fascinating to talk about as it is just like not very interesting to talk about. Like, I think it's just kind of a boring mess. Um, to like actually, I think talking about everything around the movie is way more interesting than talking about the movie. Sure, but I would also like to work out, I think it's one of those movies that it was like, why doesn't this thing work for me? And I think you and I would have would have some pretty interesting conversation. Sure. I mean, like, reportedly he'd up until close, he'd been like working on the edit of the movie and like this was a fast turnaround. It was. And like, Ridley Scott can pull it off. Like, you know I'm one of the fans of all the money in the world. Right. But. this, I just don't think he does. Like, reportedly, it was over three hours within the months leading up to... And I feel like that, like, there were stories about that, right? Like, I feel like that information leaked, that it was this, like, insanely long cut.

But also, like, you can tell that, like, they're cutting corners because he wants to tell... Like, there's whole narrative threads that don't get, like, brought together. And, like, you can tell that this is, like, some ocean barge of a movie that he's trying to turn into a yacht. Yes. And it's like, it's just, it just doesn't work for me. Yeah, I get it. I get it.

Mine is a little more schadenfreude. Okay. I really wish we could do, after seeing the movie, I wish we could do a four good days episode. I mean, yeah. The life of that movie, because it premiered at the last Sundance before the pandemic, where, you know, you have the pandemic hits and all the people that went to that Sundance, like, are tweeting, like, wait, did I get COVID at that Sundance? I came back with the

worst flu of my life. And, like, immediately any buzz for it died. Because, like, of course, there was the Gleng Close conversation at that point. And, like, you know, given the subject matter, it felt like a serious thing. Immediately, it died and then is, like, wiped off the face of the earth because critics were so dismissive. Part of me thinks people were too, like, immediately dismissive to the movie because there's some good stuff in it, including Glenn Close. Yeah. But there's also some really cringy stuff in it. And of course, it has a Diane Warren song, and we love talking about Diane Warren's

songs, especially are bad ones. But can we talk about the music video for that song, though, briefly? It's very, I'm not a girl, not yet a woman. It is, but it's Riba wandering the desert in her little cowboy hat and her little sort of sweater jacket thing, that sort of like southwestern poncho jacket thing, wandering the desert in like, whatever, the hills at Red Rocks or something, getting these like beautifully filmed. I think it's directed, I think it's directed by the director of the movie. Rodrigo Garcia.

Yeah. Rodrigo Garcia would also be fascinating to talk about because he gets a lot of these great actresses in his movies and is like going for low-key things that should, work and a lot of the movies just don't work. But I had to, I was absolutely compelled to screen grab Reba in the Desert and then contrast it with Reba as Trish the Water Spirit because I was like, she's really calling upon the elements now where it's just like, this is Reba as Trish the Water Spirit, this is Reba as Trish's sister Patty, the Desert Spirit, and it's just, she's every woman.

You need to find Reba in a forest. I reba in a forest and then reba in like you're going to have a full captain planet yes like cornucopia of reba amid flames just sort of like calling upon hades or something like that yeah exactly that's exactly what i'm talking about yeah it's great it's super great by their powers combined yeah yeah totally people think i i was talking to a friend about this i feel like i don't want to say that like i'm shitting on glen close i feel very much like Nadia on what we do in the shadows talking about Nandor's girlfriend, like, I like I have to yell this constantly and no one is convinced. But like I do actually think Glenn Close is in that movie. That's exactly. Wait a second. That's the perfect comparison because that exactly because I am absolutely everybody else in that show being like, you really hate Glenn Close and you're like, I don't hate Glenn Close. Andor's girlfriend.

Wait, who played Nandor's girlfriend in that? That was somebody, right? I forget. What a perfect show. I'm so mad that it's taking me this long to... It's so good. It's a perfect show. It's a perfect show.

Nadia's my favorite. I have... Oh, it's Ada Terturo. It's Ada Turturo. Oh, yeah. From The Sopranos. Very funny. Yes.

Yeah, you and Harvey Gien are a match made in heaven, for sure. As friend and former guests, Kyle Amato puts it, I am down bad. Whereas I will have a wonderful long and platonic life with the doll Naja for the rest of my life. The two of us just sort of being spinsters together. That's what I want. The Naja doll is my favorite. I love her so much. Anyway, let's move on to our next category again.

Again, title, we have not changed. and we shan't change. The Dr. Louise Banks Award for Most Surprising Shutout. Yeah, great respect to Dr. Louise Banks of the film Arrival for this. The most surprising shutout. Not in any major categories, because I wasn't expecting it to show up in any major categories. But it is surprising to me. I thought if I do have one complaint about this year's Oscar ballot,

it's that the craft categories hewed very closely together. I mentioned in my Facts and Figures article for Vanity Fair that production design and cinematography matched five for five. That hasn't happened ever since the categories were combined from black and white and color. They used to be split along those lines, and then they were combined in 1968. And since then, it's never happened

that both of those categories have matched five for five. And even when you go into, like, costume design, like, it's still Dune, Nightmare Alley, West Side Story, which is not to say in any way that those movies are unworthy of that, but just there were, sometimes the Academy gets a little bit more interesting in peppering those categories with outliers. And sometimes it's, you know, not always our favorite things, but I do feel like it's interesting that when the Black Dahlia will get a weird nomination or the Duchess will get a weird nomination or the Duchess will a nomination or, you know, the young Victoria or, right, exactly, that's the thing. And this year, I'm going to agree with you here because the like limited scope and like part of that

is because you do have a movie that's so broadly loved like the power of the dog getting a lot of those nominations or you have a movie that it's like, well, of course, you know, Dune getting all of those craft nominations. And it's like, yes, part of that is a limited space, but like usually you would expect, like, a fifth nominee from something somewhere. It's to the point where it's like, Cruella has multiple Oscar nominations. And I know some people gag for that costume design. Oh, I'm one of them. I don't take issue with either one of Cruella's nominations, actually.

I think they fully deserve both of them. Okay. That makeup nomination? I mean, it's good makeup. It's signature and distinct. It's clown paint on Emma Stone. It's really good clown paint. It's really good clown paint.

I mean, so is the. Eyes of Tammy Faye makeup, and that's really good clown paint. I mean, that's more like along the lines of the House of Gucci nomination and makeup to me. I think House of Gucci is a step down from both Cruella and Eyes of

Tammy Faye when it comes to makeup, I will say. I mean, I'm not going to be enthused with the makeup and hairstyling nomination until we have something like rotten and nasty in it. Like, I want, I don't know. What's a disgusting

horror movie that we've seen recently. I won it nominated. God. I mean, the answer to this question is the green night. No, no, the answer to this question is Malignant should have been nominated in makeup and hairstyling, film editing, and costume design.

We disagree highly on malignant as well. I'm one of those people who doesn't know how to have fun and hated Malignant. Oh my God, I can't believe it. I can't, I cannot, I can't deal with you. Okay. But anyway, so pursuant to the craft categories being very samey, I was surprised that the French dispatch didn't show up

anywhere. Because even if it wasn't going to be a Best Picture nominee or if poor Jeffrey Wright, who was so good in that movie, didn't even sniff the supporting actor category, which is a damn shame. They've turned the corner on Wes Anderson. He's part of the club now. Grand Budapest Hotel got eight bajillion nominations, and French Dispatch doesn't get any, doesn't get production design, doesn't get costume design. It's puzzling to me that this is the movie they decided they were out on. It's the first movie of his that's gotten shut out entirely since Darjeeling Limited in 07. It's a long time.

I can buy it as a sixth place nominee in a couple categories, but I think it's puzzling on several fronts. First of all, it's like the only thing that Searchlight was pushing that didn't get anything. Yeah. it's like even to the point where I was like if it gets nothing else it'll be nominated for alexander Plaus score because they nominate him for everything yeah and they didn't yeah so it's surprising it's really surprising it's too bad I really liked that movie what is your choice for surprising shut out I mean I probably would have put French dispatch as like my number one pick for that too but I guess my second place is going to be passing even though I

I, even though, like, we talked about how Netflix, you know, positioned their priorities, but, like, Ruth Nega was, like, I know a lot of people were doubting her chances of getting in, but, like, she was one of the supporting actress mainstays throughout the season and, like, all the way back to, you know, I saw that performance in, too, I thought, like, more than I was expecting them. She got the BAF denomination. Yeah, yeah. And, like, she was on the actress roundtable. And even, even just beyond those two performances, like, there was a lot in play for that movie. Or maybe you would have thought there would be, like, cinematography, you know. Yeah. It's surprising that it didn't even get, like, one loan back to what you were saying.

There's, like, not a whole lot of variety in those craft nominations. It's, like, it felt like it could have gotten something like that, you know. I wish I liked that movie better. I felt kind of. estranged from the enthusiasm. There was so much, as the year went on, so many people were talking about, it's the best movie nobody's talking about. If it doesn't get, you know. There's a range of responses to that movie. Yeah, but I feel like all I was seeing in the last few months was just like really, really strong praise. And it was in people's top 10 lists. And, you know,

if Ruth Nega doesn't get nominated, I'm going to burn it down. I've not seen any. I've not seen any of that reaction, I will say. I will say my, I had a colder response to it when I revives. visited it over the season. I do still wish that I'd had the opportunity to see it in a theater. Yeah, of course. But, like, especially for Ruth, I thought was one of the performances of the year.

She's quite good. I don't know if I would go quite that high on it, but I think she's fantastic. She has a lot to balance in that movie, and I think, you know, it could be, like, one of those actorly, ticky type of things, and I think it's, I think it's quite compelling. She's very good.

She's very good in that movie. I don't. dislike the movie. These are the most frustrating movies from me. It was just like, I don't dislike it, but I just, I wish I could see in it what some of its more ardent supporters see in it. It is kind of a wavelength movie in a way, because it is so interior to Tessa Thompson's character. Yeah. That, like, if people don't get on its wavelength, like, I get it. I understand why. And I also feel like this is kind of a year where maybe excluding Nightmare Alley, having a wide range of responses when there isn't at least a firm camp in the pro for a movie. Like, those movies just generally got screwed. Although, Tragedy of Macbeth was kind of that, too. Right? There was a wide variety of responses to Tragedy of Macbeth, and I don't feel like there were a ton of people who were riding.

really, really strong for it. I think it does have a platform that a lot of movies don't have because it's a Joel Cohen movie. And it's Denzel and it's, yeah, yes, I agree. Yeah. So, like, it already kind of has an avenue. That's a movie that I was surprised didn't do a little bit better because, like, even though Apple wasn't doing much for the movie, I was like the Coens have surprised.

Apple wasn't, but A-24 actually was really campaigning it. They were screening it in theaters again. And they did like an IMAX screening of it in big cities, and they were really pushing the visuals of it. And I was really expecting it to get a Best Picture nomination by the end there, because it was such a late-breaking rise, like a spike in invisibility from specifically A-24 campaigning for it. Yeah. Because obviously Apple was all in on Coda. Yeah. And like even Coda is one of those movies that, like, like,

has a wide range of responses, but, like, it has a firm pro camp, same for Belfast. Yes, yeah, yeah, totally. And I guess Nightmare Alleyes would have just been from, you know, the craft branches probably have a little bit more. There was a lot of weird, like, not weird, well, I think weird because I didn't like the movie, but, like, there were a lot of- I understand anybody's response to that movie because, like, I kind of have waffled on it, too, and, like, sometimes when I think about it, I'm like, well, maybe I like that movie

more than I thought I did but like I it is a little boring it was weird to me that there were people being like Bradley Cooper should be a best actor nominee and I'm really not in that I understand that I get the Bradley Cooper should I get that I get the Bradley Cooper should be a nominee for licorish pizza camp even though I'm not necessarily in that either just because I think it's such a small role but um I don't get that I don't get I don't I think it's I don't think he's very good in nightmare alley I think he's actually one of the movie's big weaknesses and besides the boring stuff. But, um, yeah, I don't know. It was not my thing. All right. Well, then how about this next category? The Unfinished Life

Prize for Most Forgettable. Yeah. The movie that maybe our listeners have already forgotten had some Oscar talk around it. Yeah. What is your pick for this? Again, I feel like I'm just giving an answer that I kind of already supported and that Netflix just you know, has their priorities and they will dump movies. But minus the Starling. Yeah. The Theodore Melfi movie that was in September with a grieving Melissa McCarthy. I mean, it's a horrible movie. So it's like, it's good that they dropped it. But like, I don't know anybody that really watched it. The buzz on that movie almost feels like a phantom, though, because even when we were looking at the outset at Toronto, people looked at that

and we're just like, oh, what's the thing that it reminds me of? Well, two things. It's, in subject matter, it sounds like it's Penguin Bloom. And in the fact that it's Melissa McCarthy and Theodore Malfi again, it makes you think of St. Vincent. And both of those movies were not well liked and didn't get any Oscar nominations. So I feel like you looked at Starling and we're just like, well, this is going to fizzle. And it fizzled. And so it all sort of, it behaved exactly the way we all kind of expected that it would.

But in terms of the category. Yeah. It's definitely forgettable. It is definitely forgetable. People do not remember that movie that premiered four months ago. Yeah. My choice for this is something that I think at one point did have a even more than I would say a glimmer of buzz. And by this point now, I think it's been totally forgotten, which is Stillwater.

I think there was a moment there after it screened and some critics actually really liked it. There was sort of a spike of, you know, this movie is actually pretty good, not from everybody, but from enough people in the right corners that it was like, oh, they might be able to make something of this, and they might be able to make a Matt Damon campaign out of it or something. And once the fall festivals

happened, because that was a summer movie, right? Stillwater? Yes. And then so then once the... Premereed it can out of competition. Once the fall festivals happened and sort of flooded the market with, you know, other things that were more solid contenders, still water was fully just

dropped from everybody's radar and never never returned. And at this point, it feels like it could have been two years ago that that movie happened. Exactly. If I remember correctly, like the movie did fine for focus financially in the summer. And I think it's partly because with marketing, they could kind of do, you know, a certain type of conservative viewer into that movie that he sure was wearing a dusty brown baseball cap in that movie poster. Do you remember, did you see that thing where like somebody put like those four movie posters up against each other, and it was all just like, oh, it was like Matt Damon, and then that one Eric Banna movie, and it was like four people, and it was all just like dusty baseball cap

or like camo, you know, uh, opposite Joe Bell, one of the worst movies I've ever seen in a festival. Yeah. Granted, the festival cut of that movie is apparently different than the theatrical, but I am 1,000% never watching that. Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to watch that. Stillwater, I was so scratching my head, especially of, like, the people that I respected that that movie was good. I feel like it's kind of, rather than being like a roar shack of like, well, what do you see in this scenario? I feel like it kind of actively avoids and like kind of

stupidly, you know, muddles the, I guess, political or like cult of personality factors of that movie, and I kind of actively despised it and thought it was a mess. Okay. Come back to us, Tom McCarthy. I mean, I do love. I sequel. I still am a little bit

interested in seeing the movie and just sort of deciding for myself because the responses have been so varied, and it feels like I could fall, you know, kind of anywhere on the spectrum. And I do feel like Tom McCarthy, I owe Tom McCarthy to watch this movie, and though I also have never watched the cobbler. But

there are some like actively infuriating twists in that movie and I think it just completely strains credibility in a way on a character level not just of Matt Tamus characters but the characters that surround him and like it's it's a bunch of bullshit all right all right I'm glad if it is a forgettable movie let people forget that movie that's your curse you've placed a curse on Stillwater let people I will head to that movie. Yeah. All right. All right. To at least close our categories, we can keep talking about other movies or, you know, stuff if we want. But to at least place things in categories, the Welcome to Marwin Prize for Most Anticipated Episode.

I believe in our first, did we say that that was our most anticipated episode the first time we did a class of episode? Maybe. I know that's the first one we did for the year we would have done it. It probably is because, like, we were certainly very, very excited to talk about Welcome to Marwin, because, uh, yeah. And I do feel like we always decide what the first movie of that year will be in that episode, for an episode in the class of episode. All right. I'm ready to hash that up because I feel like we're kind of spoiled for choice in this category, I think.

But I also feel like maybe that's different than the one that we personally would most anticipate. Basically, I'm just priming that the first episode we should do from 2021 is not the one I'll be most excited for, is what I'm trying to say. We decided ahead of time that Katz would be our first 2019 movie. We have, I believe we're in agreement that Wild Mountain Time will be our first 2020 movie when we break the seal on that. For 2021, I've talked about how I'm excited to do a last dual episode. I think that will be a really interesting one. I was so surprised by how much I liked that movie that it will be a fun one to talk about.

There's also a lot of interesting angles to that in terms of the people. I feel like we haven't had a ton of opportunity to talk about Adam Driver on this podcast, and I would like to do that. Annette will also be a fun opportunity for us to do that when we eventually do in Annette episode. I also think to town will be a wild

as time, and it's, I'm, I'm excited that, because after, even after Can, I was like, how realistically are we taking the awards buzz for this movie? And then they really, really put their, their whole ass into pushing for that one as an awards contender in streaming in theaters. I feel like the I don't actually push that movie as hard as they push Spencer. Yeah. And, and that, you know, France selected it as its international film standard bearer. And so that's going to be a wild-ass time. But I think my choice for this category is much more on a Schadenfreude, and it's, I think we're going to, and I may have to drag you through this kicking and screaming, but I think

a dear Evan Hansen episode will be a wild time. This is the conversation point I was trying to walk around. I really think I mean it's unavoidable and it's the right answer it's the right not right thing to do but under the parameters of our podcast it is the correct first episode for 2021

I think there's no other answer to it than that but is it the one that I'm most looking forward to absolutely not sure because like I don't think I'm going to watch all the nominees this year I think I'm giving myself a break. I really don't want to fucking watch Free Guy. I'm gonna. I haven't gotten that song

nomination. I could have never seen Dear Evan Hansen and been so happy. But like, now I'm going to have to watch Dear Evan Hansen. Great. Wonderful. It's so funny that you don't, like I get it from both sides. If it is a nominee, I have to see it for work. And if it's not a nominee, I have

to see it for podcasts. So I really, there's no getting around some of these movies for me. Yeah. I think I need to give myself a little break from mediocrity. Maybe I'll take one myself and I'll stop being... We'll sandwich it between two episodes on movies that we really love and it'll be the spoonful of sugar

that helps the medicine of dear Evan Hanson go down for you. Listen, I have been finally catching up to other global seasons of drag race and while as much as Cheryl Hall is not the queen for me, I do find her. I'm ready for another week of me being mediocre. Oh, my God. Very. Get her off my television.

Just no patience. I don't like shitting on Queens too much, but I'm so mad that she's the one that got to meet Adele. I know. I know. If they would have just cast Divina on the season instead and let her meet Adele, we could all be a lot happier. So anyway. So what's your choice? What's the one you're actually most looking forward to doing your episode?

Well, you said mine. So I feel like I. have to pick... What was to Tom? It was going to be to Tom. Yeah. Because that feels like mother potential

of like an episode. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. It's a wild. It's a crazy, crazy... There's a lot of talking points. I mean, there's the Cannes ceremony

where Spike accidentally announced the title, like right at the... The win, right at the top of the ceremony. It actually did have like an awards run outside of... Yeah. You know, international feature. and, like, for a minute, I was, when it didn't make the bake-off list for an international feature, I was like, yeah, but there's still some potential, and I feel like that actually died quickly. And the critical reception for that movie ended up being a lot more varied than I thought.

There are a lot of people who really, really do not care for that movie, which I think is interesting. One then that I will throw out, even though that is my answer. I feel like people have forgotten this I could have thrown it in forgotten but like I will never forget this movie So it's not most forgotten What's that? I mean this is very early

In the year Again another movie that debuted At the pre-pandemic Sundance I would love to do a Dreamhorse episode I knew you were leading up to Dream Horse We have to do Dream Horse Dream Horse. Dream Horse was my first movie back in a theater after the pandemic we have to do Dream Horse

Dream Horse, a movie about a horse named Dream. Oh, man. So really, the title should be Dream, comma, horse. Dream, a horse movie. Yeah. Dream, colon, horse. A movie that absolutely the poster says Tony Collette is in love with this horse. 100%.

Tony Colette will have sex with this horse. Yeah. It promises that. It does. And it's just a nice movie. I'm sure it'll be an episode where it's like we don't really have much to talk about. But, we haven't really, have we done a Tony Colette movie aside from evening? Way, way back.

Oh. And the end evening. And I'm not sure if there's any others. Oh, in her shoes, duh. Oh, duh, of course. Yeah. Where we're like, Tony Colette, amazing. Yes.

Yeah, I'd love to do a Dream Horse episode. Yeah. I thought, genuinely going into this category, I thought you were going to say Zola, because I know you are riding high for Zola. I'm not writing as high as some people are. There are elements of the movie that I am like 1,000% in the bag. I think Taylor Page gives one of the performances of the year, or I guess last year, because again, another pre-pandemic Sundance movie.

Right. I think it's more of like a directing achievement than it is a writing achievement. Yeah. But like the performances in that movie are top-notch and like Levy's score is incredible. Yeah. The, I think Ari Wigner. job as a cinematographer is as strong, if not stronger, than power of the dog. Not stronger.

As strong. I really loved, I was very, very high on Coleman Domingo this season, and I really would have liked it if he would have been a presence in the supporting actor conversation. He's so good. I mean, Riley Keow's fantastic in a, we talk about, like, daring performances, and I do feel like that is a movie that risks a lot for her in terms of going where. that character needed to go in a way that risks her really coming across as an asshole, as an actor, like as an actor going to places that you shouldn't be going.

I don't think that's untrue, but as somebody who has really gone to bat and loved Riley Keo for giving more than what's on the page, I ultimately think, while I'm not saying she's bad, I ultimately think she shows up and does the assignment that's on the page. I think that's true, but I think showing up and doing the assignments that's on the page is that's one of the more challenging assignments on the page. That might be fair, but like there's moments where it seems like she's going to give more than she's expected to and doesn't quite. And again, I'm not shitting on that performance in any way. Yeah. I just, as someone who loves Riley Keough, I was maybe expecting a little more.

Sure. Now that we're sort of past the categories, though, I want to go sort of into a great. bag of, some of these movies we've talked about in our various festival episodes, so we might not talk so much about something like... There's titles that, some that I would have expected you to already bring up. Well, I think the one movie, besides lamenting that we couldn't do House of Gucci, the one movie that came up the most from our Twitter followers on nomination day was in the Heights. And I am super excited to talk about In The Heights.

I loved that movie. I know you and I disagree on how good that movie. movie is, which... I love elements of that movie. I'm not... I just don't think it's well made. Yeah, I'm not psyched to have that argument with you because I am going to take it personally. But it was so tied up in my like joy at returning to movie theaters in that brief

window of time where it really felt like that, you know, the arc of the pandemic was a straight line and not this weird curly cue of disaster that we're having with variants and setbacks and whatnot. it really felt like I wanted a wearback moment and that felt like a we're back moment. And then, I mean, we'll go into it when we actually do this episode. But like the absolute crushing disappointment of that movie's box office crater and also the controversies that that greeted that movie's theatrical release were so like legitimately psychologically dispiriting to me where I like I was I was bombed. And I really, it's going to take me a while to want to actually talk about. that movie at length because I'm so bummed about it.

And like, I understand why a lot of people bring it up and a lot of people would want that episode. My feeling about that movie is like it's one of the 2021 ones that feel like a 2021 and that like, we don't want to talk about the pandemic. Like, we're a lighthearted podcast. We don't want to just like, and I ultimately think like that's a movie that was so hashed out that like I don't know how interesting of an episode we could provide on it. But I also feel like I owe that movie, I owe that movie my joy and to not be like super corny about it. But like, I do. Like that movie did something.

This is why you'll be mad at me when I talk about. 100%. Yes. Aesthetics and such. Yes. And that's fine. You can be mad at me. Count on it.

The thing about that you mentioned the like box office failure of it is like, this is ultimately why I think, not ultimately, but like one of the. things that like I feel like it's talking about during a like heavy pandemic movie like where it's like theaters aren't even really open it's almost like that because think about that movie's box office run is like everybody was immediately like boom failure and ultimately it made a good amount more money than some of the movies that would what was it's what was its final domestic I I don't remember but like some people were bandying this about earlier in the season where it's like everybody was so quick to cast off In The Heights purely on its box office run, and it did better than other movies comparable.

I just in my Google search started to type In The Heights Box Office Mojo, because it is a difficult thing to navigate, but like if you just go to a movie's page, it will give you the number that you're looking for. But I started to type in the Heights box office, and then the suggested text was in the Heights box office bomb, and then in the Heights, box office bomb, and then in the Heights, box office mojo. So, like, that's the bummer that I'm talking about. Like, that is, that's exactly. There was also data, though, at the time that it wasn't actually performing well on HBO Max to that kind of. Well, and I think it kind of annoyed me that that information came out quickly. And it really felt like Warner and HBO Max were sending that information out to be like, don't blame us, this movie shit the bed on Max as well, and really kind of threw the movie under the bus in order to do damage control for the notion that HBO Max was harming

box office numbers for Warner's movies. Right, right. And that pisses. Well, and of course they don't give hard data, you know. No, of course not. No, it's all. So it's like they can craft whatever narrative they want. My feeling about that movie ultimately is that it, for people who knew what it was,

was, it was marketed in a way that made us excited. But for people who didn't know what it was, like, that marketing is bad for that movie. Like, it doesn't tell you what the movie is about. It's like, I've said this before where it's like, the trailer of that movie tells you that the star of the movie is the musical Hamilton. Yeah, I think that was probably a mistake. Yeah. That's, in a movie that's supposed to be launching stars, right? Like, it should be getting us excited about the people that are actually in the movie.

I think on some level, on it was, on some level, it was unavoidable that in the Heights was going to require a leap of faith from an audience to watch a movie that was not based on any preexisting anything and that with actors in it who were not people that they knew. And ultimately, that was going to be tough. And you know what? Like, on some level, and it's hard to say in a pandemic because people have different levels of comfort. But that was at a moment where I think people were more. optimistic about going into theaters than at any point in 2021, I expect more from the general movie-going audience to be able to take that leap of faith with a movie, especially one that I get what you're saying about that they were, you know, that the advertising

maybe overemphasize something like Hamilton, but the advertising was also promising big, bright, exuberant colors and songs, and just like, that should be fucking enough. That should be enough. I know, but that's not what, like, general audiences, like, respond to when they see a trailer. It's, like, they need, they need plot. They need to know what you're selling them, and, like, they, you know, exuberant. Tone is not usually enough unless it's, like, a weird movie. Yeah, but the plot of that movie is also, like, a day in the life of people in a neighborhood, and, like, stuff happens.

It's like, it's like, it's not a super plotty movie. I guess you could have focused on the lottery ticket, but the movie kind of even, emphasizes the lottery ticket versus what the stage show did. I mean, I think it was a mistake to expect that movie to ever be a big opening weekend movie. And that was the type of movie that was designed to have long legs in theaters. Yeah. I mean, whatever. When we do eventually cover this movie, we'll talk about all of us.

There was a lot of the controversy around that movie. I think people were justified in having it. But it was just like kind of one thing after the other one movie. Anyway, domestic... Warner Brothers did absolutely zero to promote it in an award season. Domestic, it did a scosh under $30 million. Worldwide grosses were almost 44. So it was pretty small.

I mean, Belfast wants to have that kind of number. Sure, sure. But like... Belfast would have that kind of number in a normal year. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. So... Moving along to more movies.

Yes. So we've talked about passing and Petit Maman in... other festival of movies en masse, so we don't want to really linger on that. Where do you come down on Mike Mills, Come On, Come On, and whether you expected that movie to show up more in the nominations, particularly. I'm surprised that Joaquin Phoenix's performance did not get more of a, more momentum in a year where best actor felt squishy and soft, and we usually see actors who win Oscars get those Halo nominations not long thereafter.

I mean, I do think he's very good in the movie. I'm not surprised that a movie like this didn't really catch on with the awards voters as far as my feelings about the movie itself is like, for a movie that I basically wept through the entirety of, I came out of that movie being like, I stopped the whole time. I don't know if I loved it, but like I understand people who love or hate that movie. I don't really have much to say about it. I feel like I'm the opposite side of the coin from you, which is I walked out of that movie being like, I liked everything that I saw in that movie, and it did not make me emotional, which is weird for a movie about, again, how much an uncle loves his nephew in a year where- Which we are suckers for. Like, well, in a year where like half of my life, like, 90% of the happy things that happened in my life were like, I love my nephew so much. You know what I mean?

It's just like, it should have, I should have been the easiest mark for getting emotional in that movie. And, and again, it's not like I fault the movie for, you know, not more, you know, aggressively punching me in my heartstrings. But I was sort of a little puzzled as it was walking out of this. Just like, what was the little missing ingredient in that movie that that 20th century women definitely have? It's just a little too easy to compare it to it. And like that movie, I think in all of its emotional moments, the type of things that like make us well. up while we're watching it actually does like achieve and seeks

out some type of deeper meaning in those things. Yeah. Like a level of um, um, for lack of a better word, personalness. Yeah. It's certainly like

registers on a personal level for these characters and for us in the audience that I just don't think this movie quite reaches for and doesn't achieve. But at the same time, it's not bad. It doesn't, it certainly doesn't annoy me at all like beginners annoys me. So I don't want to, like, I was sort of being like, well, maybe I just don't connect with Mike Mills as much beyond 20th

century women, which I connect so much with. But it's like, no, like, it's not the same thing where like beginners really just irks me as a movie. And come on, come on, doesn't at all. Like, I really, like, I'm looking forward to watching that movie again. I really enjoyed the experience of watching that movie, but there was just something that didn't quite jump from a, you know, seven and a half to an eight and a half for me, if that makes sense. Makes complete sense. Yeah. All right.

We talked about Zola a second. A lot of people were riding for the Green Knight to get some tech nominations, some craft nominations, which certainly would have been... We had some people in our mentions being like, the Green Knight wasn't really an Oscar movie, but it was on, I think, at least the... score bake-off list. So, like, it's more of a contender than you, than some people might think. Yes, I agree. I think it was one of those movies that a year ahead of time, people weren't quite sure what to make of it, because it seemed like it had the makings of a sort of big,

blockbustery movie, sort of epic kind of scale. But then it was like, but it's David Lowry. David Lowry makes, you know, even Pete's Dragon felt very sort of like small and personal for a movie that was about a dragon. I think when David Lowry finally hits with the Academy, he's going to hit in a big way. Oh, absolutely. Well, this is the other thing I said about Green Knight, which is just like, it's so very immediately ropes you into his, the world of that movie. And that's like, that is to me what a across-the-board craft sweeping kind of a movie should do. Right. And so, like, I mean, production design of that movie was astounding.

Costumes, visual effects, you know, cinematography, everything was... Makeup especially. I was, I joked to you and Katie when I was making my, like, you know, lists of superlatives or whatever. And I was just like, how much can I credit how cool Serreida. Chaudery looks with a blindfold on for, you know, what can I nominate that for? Because, like, it's just, there's so many striking visuals from that movie. And it's a- Joe, I am so happy to be living in the year of Sarita Chowdera. I, like, we can argue about, like, we want more for her than what she's actually given in the projects that she's in. But, like, everybody getting

on board with Sarita Chowdhury is the business. I think there is a script out there that is waiting for her to give her her like spotlight movie. And I think it's coming. I hope so.

I feel like there's, I just like somewhere. We're about to have the Mississippi Missala re-release and the criterion coming out. Like, I'm excited. I think she's probably the fan favorite of the new and just like that characters. Yeah, for as much as and just like that, is very much the It's None of My Business TV show of this year.

I do, the closest I've come to wanting to watch that season is hearing about her role in the show. And I was just like, oh, I would like to watch her. I would like to see what she's up to. It's just enough to be, like, frustrating. Yeah. That, like, you do actually want more for her than she's given. Yeah. And, like, that's true of all of the new characters.

But, like, she's just so good. And, like, in some ways, they're giving her, like, the Samantha fun stand-in stuff in a way that it feels like the show is mostly trying to avoid that. But, like, it just feels so good to be in her presence. I mean, it's, I do think you should catch up to the show, though. I guess it was the conversation around it. It's one of those shows where I'm like, the conversation around it is inescapable. And everybody talks about it like they hate it, but they are also obsessed with it. and it just, like, it vexes me.

And I'm just like, do you like this show? Like, what's going on? And I guess... Problems are its problems, but I will say it's been one of the more comforting watches. Interesting. Because even from the people... It's candy. It is purely candy.

So, like, I think it's... That's what makes it easy for people to be, like, it's bad. It's problems are glaring problems. Yeah. But, like, the things that are good about it, I think, are a little underrated. right now. All right. Because even the stuff that was like...

That's not me saying it's a great show. Complementary to it. It's a watchable, enjoyable show. Even the stuff I was seeing that was complimentary to it is there's just like, you don't understand it's supposed to be horribly depressing. And I was just like, well, I don't want to watch that. I don't agree with that. Yeah.

Like it, narratively, it's doing what it's doing. I think what it does with Miranda is maddening. But... I did see. One take. And again, this is coming from somebody who did not watch the season. I did see one take because, like, you couldn't escape the Che Diaz discourse. Those dominated culture in the last two months. Being essentially just like, Che Diaz is the big of this new version of the show, which is that the love interest that we can say, oh, you know, they're no good for Miranda. And I can 9,000 percent get behind this, but I wish that. that that was the show's intention. So you think that's accidental to what the show is actually? Oh, it's accidental entirely.

If it was, I mean, like, even if Michael Patrick King gave a quote saying, we were trying to come up with a new big, but for Miranda, I would not believe that. That's interesting. All right. I mean, I do think that's a good idea, but I don't think that's intentional. All right. We talked about French Dispatch and Annette. Oh, a hero not getting nominated in international film is, is,

is surprising to me. You were not surprised. Why? Because a lot of people talked about it like until like drive my car became a moment, you know. Yeah. People talked about it like it was the frontrunner and I was like, I just don't think that they're going to give it to him a third time in the same category, especially for this one. Like I know people who have stronger feelings about that movie than I do. Yeah.

I just, I don't see a direct. a director being awarded an international feature for a third time unless there's momentum and heat around it in like director and screenplay. Some people were surprised that for Hottie wasn't nominated there either, but like it just doesn't play like

this is getting him a third Oscar. Yeah, all right. When the other two have been, in my opinion, stronger movies. There are a few sort of smaller movies that I don't know if we ever necessarily, by the time nominations were being voted on

expected to happen but sort of long lead stuff that felt buzzy something like the Sundance hit nine days from 2020 which I eventually saw because it got like

really great buzz out of Sundance and it got like an indie spirit nomination last year I expected you to like that movie I did too and I didn't I thought it was so boring I really was just bored to tears by it, and I was bummed that I was bored to tears by it.

It moved so slowly to me. It was just like, it's just glacial and did not engage me at all, really. Unfortunately. You liked it, though? I liked it, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to. Strongly enough to, like, put it on, you know, my top list, but.

Yeah, I liked it. I am now kind of interested to see. the Udo Kier Swan Song sort of reading more about it. I was writing a little bit about the Independent Spirit nominations. And...

I think that's a great movie if it has any interest whatsoever in developing or, you know, really digging into any of the ideas it proposes. I nearly watched that one on an airplane when I was flying

to Palm Springs a few months ago and now I kind of regret that I didn't. I was so frustrated by that movie because, like, it brings up interesting things, like, you know, what happens to elder gay people who don't have people to take care of them? What is community, what is queer community like in these small towns that are dying? And it really does absolutely nothing with them. I think it's a very surfacy movie to the point where it's like the Robin Needle Drop that happens in that movie is exactly the one that you expected to. Um, did you, were you sort of, uh, resentful of the small town Ohioness of it?

No, because I think there's an interesting movie there, but I just think this is a movie that is too facile to, uh, be interested in that. Did you like, it's, it's purely, uh, window dressing. It's not like, I don't know how else to describe it, but like, saying the thing is not really talking about the thing. Sure, sure, sure. I got you know. I'm excited to see it. Maybe we can and have a conversation about it. Did you see the other swan song, the Mahershala Ali's song? What did you think about that one?

I think it's a good movie. I see why, you know, it didn't really go anywhere, partly because, like, Apple is... They had other priorities. Purely fictional in some people's mind. This is a streaming service. Yeah. Which sucks, because Apple has great things on it. Like, Dickinson is great.

Yeah. Yeah, Apple, I think... I think Apple's trending upwards. I think the Best Picture nomination for Coda does really good things for it. I think in a few years, if Apple is sort of an oddly powerful Oscar player, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I wouldn't either. Because they'll at least be positioned to be like the cool streamer at some point. But like, I think as far as films are concerned right now, they have a lot of like stuff that it feels.

like nobody saw and is probably of questionable taste. Like that Justin Timberlake movie, what the fuck? Oh, yeah, yes. Well, yeah, there's a lot of stuff like that, too. It's just like, what is this, what's, you know, what is this supposed to be? I think a lot of their, they're commissioning a lot of stuff. There's a lot of TV shows on there that, like, they have a lot of money to spend. Yes, yeah, exactly.

Well, a lot of it is cultivating professional relationships where they want to be, you know, in with J.J. Abrams and they want to be in with Spielberg and they want to be in with Hanks and all this sort of stuff. I mean, they are going to have a big year. They have the Scorsese movie. Yeah. That's why I feel like, I think, I think in, you know, in five years we'll be talking about Apple and Oscars a lot differently, which we'll look to this year is probably the kickoff to that. The Apple Swan song, though, like, felt so very, it kind of bummed me out that I was like, well, this is just going to be on Apple and nobody's going to watch it. Because, like, it felt like that palette cleanser post-Oskers April movie where, like, you go and

you're like, this is fine, and that's all I needed it to be. But, like, it feels like I'm watching an adult movie of low stakes. And that's great. I will say if you're in terms of Apple, and it's not a movie, but if you're looking for something on Apple, if you subscribe to Apple and are looking for things to stream on it. The after-party is so good and so funny and very creative, and I like that show very much. So that's my recommendation. Moving down our list, are you surprised at all

that Oscar Isaac's performance in the card counter did not even get as far down the road as, like, Ethan Hawks in First Reform did when we talk about, like, Paul Schrader movies? Based on the fact... Based on the performance alone, if, like, you watch things in a vacuum and knew nothing about the awards race or you were in a time capsule or something, 9 million percent. But as far as the campaign is concerned, not at all because Focus didn't do anything for that movie. But I think that's what I'm more asking about in a vacuum.

Are you surprised that they didn't do more with it? No, because I've read Paul Schrader's Facebook posts. But I think that was true of Paul Schrader with first. reformed too and like they pushed that one all the way to a screenplay nomination he's gone a little crazy even further like yeah to the point where he was like I think his first he stopped doing Facebook posts while the movie was like actively being promoted and then his first post back he was like yeah they're letting me use Facebook again so right right let me say some stuff and like I think Oscar Isaac's quite good in that movie though I think I like his performance probably

a little bit better than I like the movie but he's really good in it. Yeah, I completely agree. All right. Wait, what is bruised? You have bruised on this list, and I genuinely forget. It's the Hollyberry MM. Yes, the Hollyberry MMA movie.

Wow. Okay, so that should have been my choice for, have already forgotten it because I have already forgotten that was a thing. And it was like a week ago. Well, it was Thanksgiving. Yeah. It's not a good movie. Yeah.

It was also on the bake-off list for song, so it was beyond, you know, Holly Berry. Sure. But again, it was a movie. And Netflix paid like a shit ton for this movie. Yes. When it premiered at TIF two TIFs ago, and it was apparently work in progress,

but they weren't really telling you it was work in progress. And they did nothing with it. Even though it was like later in the year. And it was, and like, you watch the movie and it's like, it has the prestige of it probably part of it was buying it was agreeing to a certain level of like

Oscar campaign and like Holly Berry deserves that because she is an Oscar winning actress she got some It just feels like it feels more like just a mainstream movie than an awards movie She got some weird nomination for it right?

Hold on, let me look Oh maybe I'm just thinking for the M4G as she was nominated for Best Actress at the Movies for Grand Prix. I mean, that's not a weird nomination. It is a weird nomination for that. But that is what I was thinking. I was like, she showed up on a lineup somewhere,

and that was the lineup that she showed up on was the Movies for Grownips Awards. She's not bad in the movie. Yeah, I believe it. And there's, like, signs that it's like, she could be very much a mainstream director. It's just, like, I don't know why she latched onto this movie. It's a really, like, very cliche script.

All right. I want to take the L on the many scenes of Newark when I was tasked by Vulture to do the alternate universe, as I do my various alternate universe articles for them, imagining how the year 2020 at the Oscars would have gone if there were not a pandemic. And it was well ahead of even the 2020 Oscar season. So I had no idea really what was coming down the pike. I made some good. calls in that that I will stand by. I did, in my fictional universe there, Will Smith won best actor for King Richard. I think I am justified in, you know, accepting my praise for that, because I feel like that was a good call on my part. I also said Daniel Kaluya would win best supporting actor for Judas and the Black Messiah, and that was also decently ahead of last year's Oscar campaign. So I'll take that. I said that Anna to Armis would win for blonde, Which, much like your Merrill bet up until the fact that it didn't happen, like, you know, it could still happen.

It's going to, it's playing can outside of competition. It was just announced, right? That's what Andrew Dominic. It's not confirmed. Okay. Andrew Dominic apparently gave a semi-off-the-cuff interview with Green International or what really reads like his semi-off-the-cuff. Uh-huh.

um saying that that is it doesn't sound i forgetting the exact quote for it yeah Netflix apparently is very averse to doing that and Netflix doesn't want to go to can if they can't be in competition yeah but like because of the French regulations like that's what it would have to be and like I could I could totally understand Andrew Dominic being like who cares let's just go sure but like it also apparently was turned down by Venice? Or there's some weird situation going on? The buzz on that movie is really weird.

Yeah. I am very excited for it. I am too, but the buzz on that movie is really weird. But then also my stab at supporting actress, I had said, Vera Farmingo will win best supporting actress for the many states of Newark in my defense, twofold.

You'd never seen a picture of her in that nose. Well, I hadn't, but I don't know if that would have deterred me. In my defense, Livia Soprano, Tony Sopranos' mother, was a fascinating role on the Sopranos,

and there was every reason for me to believe that Vera Farmiga would have a lot to play in that movie. And how was I to know that the movie would absolutely

just drop the ball when it came to her character? And, you know, I'm not, I will take the L on it, but I will say I had some, I was almost going to say that it was a most forgettable because I do think people fully forget that that movie happened at this point. Yes.

But I didn't want you to accuse me of gaslighting you because I know from your specific experience and your specific shame around this movie, you will never forget that it happened. I will say, John Magarro as Silvio is. You know how I feel about John McGarrow. I love John McGarrow. It's giving me what I liked about Jared Leto and House of Gucci is what I liked about John McGarro and Many Saints of Newark. Like, it's a, it's a, just a fun house mirror of a performance. And I was like, this is thing, if I liked the Many Saints of Newark better, I would have liked

McGarro's performance worse because I would have thought it's- Are you telling me to watch his scenes, but on mute? Kind of. He decides that, like, that Stephen Van Zant had a signature walk, which I wouldn't have thought was true after I going into the movie. And then walking out of the movie, I was like, I guess he kind of did. And it's just so over the top, and it's deeply funny. And again, I didn't love the movie, so I was glad that I had something to latch on to in that way. A lot of

of people did not feel the same way that I did that thought he was being absolutely ridiculous. I was glad to have something to have that much fun with. But, yeah, definitely. John McGarrow, very attractive man. Yeah. How seriously did you ever take the Benedict Cumberbatch in Electrical Life of Louis Wayne Buzz, particularly since we already knew Power of the Dog was there by the time anybody saw electrical life of Louis Wayne?

well beyond that movie's festival run amazon did exactly zero with it yeah if that movie had been distributed by focus and like handled by like a focus that would be a production design nominee it would be a costume design nominee i don't think it's a very good movie but yeah i thought it was kind of a mess but like as soon it i mean like by the time it actually premiered on Amazon, I was like, well, this is, this is not a thing because they're not trying to make it a thing. I thought the same about encounter, the Riz Ahmed, paranoia, maybe aliens. We've talked about these movies when we did our TIF episode, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

One thing, I know neither one of us liked last night in Soho very much. I know you. Terrible movie. I think you hated it even more than I did. I am surprised that its costumes were never in play because often you see in craft categories, especially in things like costume and makeup, when the costumes or the makeup are so much part of the narrative in film. Like Eyes of Tammy Faye is a big example, right? The makeup, Tammy Faye Baker's makeup in that movie is a plot point in that movie. So it really sort of shines a light on that particular craft aspect and I think enhances the case for that nomination.

And I think last night in Soho, I really would have expected that that would have been the same for the costumes because so much of it, I mean, Cruella does the same thing, right? So much of Cruella is about, you know, the costumes. And I think last night in Soho is doing something similar. And I'm kind of surprised, I think if that movie is better received at all, that it has a better chance. well that's such a weirdly positioned movie because it was like that was the first movie that Edgar Wright was doing these big festivals for and it's like it's so clearly based on the position he is post baby driver winning an Oscar did it win like editing and sound and oh I don't think it won editing but let me look and see if it won sound but at least multiple Oscar nominations and it's just like it's a bad movie and And nobody really liked it. But, like, and I'm of two minds about those costumes because everything you said is true. But it also is a movie that as a plot point is, like, fully just not well in terms of how the costumes are a plot point.

Because it's like Thomas and McKenzie goes to fashion school and is treated like she's some type of misunderstood prodigy because she makes a basic pink, like, what even do you call that style? Because when the teacher was like, you have so much promise, I'm like, I could buy that dress at Target right now. Well, this is the thing that I think Cruella succeeds in, which is if you're going to have in your movie this idea that this character of yours is a fashion genius, you at least need to give me something that is so over the top that even if I don't like it, I have to look at that and be like, well, I could see. At the very least, it's a lot. I mean, at the very least, it's over the top, and it's giving me plausible deniability, whereas I think, you're right. I think in Soho, and I think in so many of these movies who are just like, we're supposed to find something to be on a genius level, and you can't make it so easy for us to be like, that's basic. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. All right. Just a couple more movies on our list. we talked about Jockey when we did our TIF episode. That was a movie that was, it was Sundance 2021 first, right? It was Sundance and then TIF. Right.

I'm not surprised that it ultimately wasn't... No, same. Not that it wasn't seen by people, but also that Sony classics didn't do anything for it. Because, like, people probably didn't even notice that it got released at the time. And it's like, it was saved for the end. of the year, and I think they might have originally intended to do the last-minute push for Clifton Collins, Jr., who's, like, had this incredible career that I do think when it

happens for him, it will happen for him, because we've talked about this before. He's one of those people that's worked with everybody. Well, and he was on people's sort of long lists for best actor contenders for a while going into that, going into the season, and I, that kind of surprised me. And if they'd done more, he could have been that fifth place person that a lot of people were expecting a potential surprise to happen. Yeah. But they didn't really do anything for it because their priorities shifted, and they moved to parallel mothers.

Yeah, and good for them. Like, God, for those two nominations, I'm so happy. He got a Independent Spirit Award nomination for Best Actor, which was good and unsurprising, good for him. I was a little bummed that if that was going to happen, that Moises Arias did not get a Best Supporting Actor nomination, at the spirits because I thought he was

really good in that movie. Maybe even he was the sort of thing that I walked away from that movie being like, oh, wow, he's really good. I want to see what he does next after this. Yeah.

You talked a little bit about the Tender Bar. I still have yet to see it. You have no reason to see that. That bad movie. So last thing, then, we talked, I mean, when I was talking about the humans, talking about movies that deserve attention in craft

categories that aren't going to get it because they're not the big sort of four quadrant hits. Memoria also deserved a sound nomination. And that's another one where in movie, it's about the sound in that movie. So you could see a universe where if this was a more mainstream

movie, it might have actually stood a chance in sound, but it was never going to happen, being the movie that it is. I love that movie. I can't wait to see it in a theater whenever that happens in 2027. Yeah, seeing it, I was so, I wanted to see it, so I didn't want to have to wait to see it.

So I watched it on a screener. And I do now wish I had watched it in a theater because I do feel like I lost something. It was... I mean, when you have the opportunity to see it in a theater again, it's going to probably be years in the future. Right, right. That's the thing. So I wanted to, like, grab onto it while I have the chance. I think the disappointing thing about that theatrical release, which pissed a lot of people off and people were calling it elitist and such.

I took the opposite approach, and I felt like it was a way to keep that movie special. But it doesn't actually seem like they are, first of all, it's like it's this guessing game for people to be like, where is it playing? Because what they've devoted to is we're doing one theatrical run in a city per week. Right. And that's where the movie is available.

And it's like, it makes it feel like this kind of special weird artifact thing that's only happening to you. Right. Which it's like, when you watch the movie, it's like, that's a brilliant way to kind of release this movie. However, it's being done with like zero fanfare. Right. Like, it played Chicago and people, like, didn't even know. Well, and that's the challenge when you do something like this is, you know, traditional release strategies are that way, not just because, you know, we

want to be able for everybody to see it at the same time, but also so we can concentrate marketing efforts and publicity efforts. And so everybody knows on a wide enough path as possible that this movie is available to you this weekend. And

to then have to do that on a... Make the actual event out of it. And in a time where local media is just a shadow of what it was, you're really, you know, trying to target that via things like social media or you know or other things it's it's a challenge it's a real challenge and that's why not everybody does this so especially as the theatrical experience becomes less and less special

yeah like it this actually sounded like an exciting way to curb that yeah yeah yeah i think i mean amacron kind of uh in the holidays i feel like sort of a affected my ability to see it in a theater but if I have faith that it'll be back in New York City again at some point. Yeah, you will definitely have an opportunity to see it in New York. Here in Ohio, I am more dumb. Yeah, that's a bummer. All right, anything else before we sign off for our Class of 2021 episode? Again, like, it feels like the opportunities for what we could discuss are slimmer than maybe they have been since we have started our podcast.

Um, I don't know, of the actual nominations, the surprises were so good. I kind of went into them. I don't do like full predictions, but like predicting things in my mind. I was like, I'm just not predicting any of the things I actually want to happen. Yeah. Because, you know, I'll be, I'll get to be happy that they do if they do. And I really think that's how we should all move forward. Yeah. Because like drive my car nominations, parallel nominations all made me so very happy. And that power of the dog, though, I was expecting this, was the nomination leader. All rad. The especially encouraging thing about drive my car getting a Best Picture nomination is I remember when it won New York and then L.A. film critics' best picture. And I was like, you know, this doesn't really happen often. And, you know, the last time that something had won, and this was even before it won national

film critics. But the last time film had won even just those two prizes, New York and L.A., and not gotten a Best Picture nomination. It hadn't happened since leaving Las Vegas in 95. So I was like, this is a big deal. And I remember at the time all the conversations we were having, and I

certainly didn't disagree, they were just like, yeah, but Janice is just way too small and aren't going to be able to campaign it, and it would be kind of unprecedented for something with that little of an Oscar apparatus. to be able to make it work.

The thing that I think actually change this is the Academy Screening Platform because they even had Spider-Man on their screening platform. And maybe that's something that we're really underestimating. Because, like, you're right, they didn't really have much campaign because they couldn't, they just don't have the, like you said, apparatus for it. And nor do they usually try, you know, that's not. what their MO is, but like I do think at the same time people had access to it. And I'm less inclined to give that credit to the, you know, critics groups that were voting for it as like an influence on that because I do think those critics groups were voting for it because that's the movie that they were supporting and not necessarily because they think it should be in the Oscar race, but because that's the movie that resonated with.

No, I agree with that too. Ultimately, this is a movie that is resonating with a lot of people. But this is my, that's where I want to give the credit to is towards the actual movie. It was so weird to me that that became the argument. The argument was, are critics groups trying to influence awards and are they lying when they say that they're not? And I'm like, that's totally beside the point. The point should be that if critics groups are going to do their own thing and follow their own path and vote for things like that, then just because they're not trying to influence the awards, we should still allow that to raise the profile of these movies anyway and not just, I think, the encouraging thing about drive my car getting a nomination. And also, and I attribute this also to the fact that, like, now we do a top, a full top 10 in Best Picture again,

which is it just, it's a, it's a... And yet I don't think it was 10th place. Well, I mean, we don't have to have that discussion, but like it may it may have been it may not have been but I think the point is I think it's a disincentive to rule movies out before we should be ruling things out and I'm glad that drive my car wasn't ruled out as a possibility just because its distributor was not an Oscar player and I think now in the future if we aren't so you know if this means that we are less willing to write a movie off because of you know like that, I think we're all the better for it, because then it makes us, it makes the awards conversation more inclusive, more open, more willing to follow interesting paths. And that can only be for the better. 1,000%. All right? That's a good note to go out on, right?

Absolutely. All right, guys, that was our class of 2021 episode. If you want more this had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.ttttomber.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at had underscore Oscar underscore Buzz. Joe, to-toot-toot-beat-beep, where can listeners find you and your work and drive that car? Is this your way of saying that I'm a bad girl, tut-toot, beep-beep, because you're absolutely right. I'm not talking about the sad girl. No, it's true. Listeners can find me on Twitter and letterboxed Joe Reed, read spelled R-E-I-D.

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