This Had Oscar Buzz - Class of 2024

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

We’ve finally made it to this year’s crop of Oscar nominations, which means we have come to our annual tradition of welcoming a new class of would-be awards hopefuls to the ranks of This Had Oscar Buzz. This week, we go long on everything that stirred some Oscar chatter between now and pre-production, with categories … Continue reading "Class of 2024"

The Vulture Movie Fantasy League has truly reached its annual annual apex of points, points, points. So many points. Oscar nomination morning is my notebook page. My notebook page, a full page. You can't see it because it's blurred out because that's how Zoom does it. But it's a full page. The filter, honey, the filter. Yeah.

Listener, we're on the other side of the Oscar nomination. We sure are. I spent my whole morning jotting down numbers and then cross-checking them and double-checking them to make sure that I was definitely right. And unsurprisingly, with 13 nominations, Amelia Perez turns out to be the points champion of the morning as well, 280 points, if you had drafted Amelia Perez. That is, I sort of looked it up to find its closest comparison. In just that morning, it earned as many points.

as Venom the Last Dance did throughout its entire box office run. So if you want to sort of make the, make, if you are of the opinion that box office doesn't matter, which I think we are tinkering closer and closer to a world in which there is a little bit of equilibrium there. Wicked obviously throws off the curve because Wicked has been awesome in both box office and awards this year. But at the finish line, how many Oscars is Wicked going to win?

because could something else lap it for most points? I think this is on the table. It's on the table, but I think Wicked is going to do well enough that it's... Wicked right now is so far ahead in the overall point standings in terms of movies that, like, there's a lot of distance there. But point being, Amelia Perez just galloped several gallops with that 280 point hall. We didn't expect 13.9. nominations. We both sort of like, I think we both predicted 11, right? Going into the morning. I thought 12 was probably a likely, um, uh, high end on that. 13 I didn't expect coming. And yet looking at the set of nominations, I'm like, I don't, there's no single nomination that you could have tied the record for all time. It's, it really was. Salina Gomez. Yeah. Selena Gomez really could have, uh, been an all time. I know. I know. Um,

I will say, though, points-wise, so the Brutalist and Wicked were three nominations behind with 10. I think our streak of having a zero-for-10 performer at the Oscars, I don't know if it's a streak necessarily, but I feel like this past 10 years, we've gotten into the trend of an O-For-10 movie fairly often, right? We had one last year with Killers of the Flower Moon. The Brutalist and Wicked are at least getting an Oscar. I think there's a category for each. that they have a fairly easy layup to a win. I agree. Yeah. But we shall see. We shall see.

I, who is slowly climbing up the charts, I had faith in myself of the podcaster league. I have to pat myself on the back. Am I now in the top 10, sir? You are now in the top 10. Let's see. So right now, Podcaster League, I will say, friend and former slash future guest Richard Lawson has surged into a lead. Right now, he's like 400 points ahead of second place. Second place is Megan Petzel

from Keep It. Richard, you who is always nervous about games, we applaud you for this success. Richard's roster is so fucking stacked. Richard has Amelia Perez, a complete unknown, the brutalist, conclave, a real pain.

All we imagine is light, which it was, we'll get into it when we do our class of 2024 episode, a surprising shutout. The Apprentice and Hard Truth, which was another shoutout. But, like, Richards stacked his roster. So it is an awards-only approach, and Richard's killing it right now. So good for you. David Canfield is currently in third. Matt Patches is currently in fourth. David Sims is in fifth. Clay Keller, Ard-Pale, is in sixth. Ira Madison, seventh. Jesse Fox, my colleague at Vulture, eighth. Chris Fyle, you are in ninth place, currently sandwiched between Jesse, David Fox, and Kennedy Hill from Keepit.

So you are, and you're right, let's, let's dig into your rest. Listen, you've got, you've got a Nora. I feel about Amelia Perez, but some of those people ahead of me do not have that in their rosters. So I'm coming for you. Your only kind of dead spots are on becoming a gimmee foul, which unfortunately did get pushed to next year. And then Janet Planet, which I think, I don't know if I see a spot for it to win, like, an indie Spirit Award or anything like that. Maybe it could. Well, and it didn't do as, I mean, it kind of, it did very well for first feature prizes, but not in the way I expected points to go, like with DGA.

Right, right. Yeah. And also, it was a lower Rotten Tomato score than I had anticipated. Janet Planet getting bodied by my old ass was not what we thought was going to happen in the first feature realm. But you have Anora, you have Amelia Perez, the brutalist, the wild robot. Flow, excuse me, Flo is going to win. I think, I think Flow is definitely winning animated feature now. I feel like that's...

I don't know because I wonder, I mean, is it about to do Flea as well? You know, where you said this on text. week. You said, is Flo going to pull a flea? And I literally was just like flibbitty flu, like such a... Why am I sending you texts in Adam Sandler voice now? Exactly. What are you Nikki Glazer? What's going on here? But if Flow doesn't win, the Wild Robot's going to win. So you're going to get the animated feature either way. You're good. You're good. Which ultimately I don't think... I mean, Wild Robot, I think, turned out to be less of a good draft pick than we anticipated at the time of drafting.

By literally one week. Had the fantasy league started a week earlier, Wild Robot would have been included in box office points. So, yeah. You're going to win best director, though. One of your movies is going to win best director.

That's the prediction I'm going to make right now. Amelia Perez, the brutalist, or anora, one of those is winning best director. So good for you there. I think we maybe could be looking at a scenario where a complete unknown continues to rise. I don't think Mangold's winning that category, but who knows? I am becoming more and more optimistic about, I literally, as I said to you and Katie on text this morning, I can't, I can't

remember who threw a complete unknown on the list of movies that could end up being a preferential ballot spoiler. And I'm like, a complete unknown kind of makes all the sense in the world. It's peaking. You know, it's still on the rise, sort of buzzwise. It made a ton of money. for what it is. It's a very sort of like people at the very least seem to like it. There's not a ton of people who outright hate it, which is surprising because I thought the knives were out for that movie. I really thought when that trailer came out, remember the day that trailer came out and everybody was literally just like sharpen in the blades ready to just sort of like stick it into that movie? And like surprisingly, it's been a real kind of like level, you know. Well, I think that. the people who would maybe have had the knives out for that movie have, they have other targets, you know, like. Fair. But so I think. Either the brutalist or Amelia Perez.

Yeah, I think so, but that's, I think, a good example of why then you might be looking at a complete unknown as a possible best picture spoiler. So we'll keep an eye on that one for sure. I think the Monica Barbaro nomination also, Monica Barbaro, I want to make sure that, because I started to say something with an essay. No, it's not Monica Barbaros. Michael Barbaro. Michael Barbaro. Monica Barbarra. I can't even get the words out.

It's the Kentucky Derby horse. Michael Barbaro. Yes. Anyway, I think that's a good sign for a complete unknown. Our overall standings, our overall points leader right now is a roster called Better Better Things Hive, which currently has a complete unknown, the brutal. list a real pain, a Nora, wicked, the substance, the apprentice. And then I saw the TV Glow, which is kind of a backpocket, a really potential game changer there, because I think

I saw the TV Glow is going to win a bunch of indie spirit awards. That is my prediction. And those always sort of like, you don't think so? Okay. We'll see, at least some. I think it's going to win some. It is currently, Better Things Hive is currently about, 50 points ahead of second place, which is a roster called Aries Sol 329, who has a lot of the same movies, but crucially had the last showgirl and all we imagine is light, which both got shut out on nomination day. But they do have conclave. So if Conclave becomes the surprise consensus pick, then I think Aries Soul can surpass, can jump up there.

Our best showing in the Garriators League right now is still a real wicked conclave who is currently in eighth place overall and who is hoping for a continued surge for I'm still here because that surprise best picture nomination and the Fernando Torres nomination and best actress really helped a real wicked conclave.

I think a real Wicked Concliffe could still see, I'm still here points. I do think that there's a potential for that to win that international category. It's very possible. It's very possible. It's very possible. So anyway, a fun and points-heavy Oscar nomination morning, I want to throw out there. It was a good day for Nosferatu for craft nominations, 60 points. Even with the disappointment of not getting a Best Picture nomination or a supporting actor nomination, it was still a pretty good day for Sing Sing, picking up 65 points. It's a sign of how much better it is if you get a best picture nomination that Nickel Boys with only two nominations still got 75 points,

which was 15 points more than Nosferatu with their four nominations. So some interesting things there on the points, on the points front. Now we head into a little bit of a quieter stage. The Critics Choice Awards are this coming week. And, um, Then I think we're quiet for like a couple of weeks before then we start getting into the ceremonies again. So we'll see how it goes. We'll, you know, dig into the points, I think, the next couple of weeks in the newsletters and, you know, sort of dig into the numbers and I'll be a nerd for a couple of weeks. And then we'll start roaring back in our race to the finish line. So it's been fun.

And it continues to be fun. Points. Enjoy your points. Enjoy your points. I'm trying for class of 2024. All right. Later. kind of that water Dick Poop

Amelia Perez nominees to be determined producers I'm still here nominees to be determined guys paperwork, let's go come on, come on, come on. Nickel Boys, nominees to be determined.

TGA. The substance, nominees to be determined. And Wicked Mark Platt, producer. Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast congratulating the three Roy children for their nominations. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations,

but for one reason, another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy, except hello, welcome to the class of 2024. Vitamin C is playing in the background. Joe, we've made it to another year. We have, man. Our most popular episode every year, the class of blank episode, our post-nomination debrief on the movies that are now eligible for future this had Oscar Buzz titles. It is not a short list. I feel like every year the list kind of gets longer.

We have a good, I think, delineation of movies that had long lead buzz and then movies that had proximate buzz, right? You have stuff like your Megalopolis'es, your Joker's Follyadu, who... The bike riders. Right, right. That definitely, by the time nomination morning came around, we... had all, we were all well aware that it wasn't getting anything, but was not the case this time last year. Hope had sprung Eternals. So, Adam Sandler Project Spaceman. Literally saw that on the

list and I was like, what, what movie? I had to look it up. I truly, I did, I had to look it up. I'm Chris Fyle. I'm here as always with my nominee to be determined Joe Reed. We were right off to the races. I love how that's become a little momentary flash in the pan, nominees to be determined. The Academy is already selling nominee to be determined shirts. This is not the first time that nominees to be determined has happened in Best Picture. It has happened every year since I've been following the Oscars, but I think this is the first year where so many of them. And then, of course, Bowen and Rachel sort of made a note of it.

I can't remember which one of them said it, but they're like paperwork, guys. get your paperwork in, which I thought was very funny. They did a good job. I enjoyed that for as much as you know I am on the record as not loving a lot of banter before the nominations are read. I thought they did a very good

job of making some comments without like we're putting on a show here. What's that like doing bits or whatever? The jokes were at least funny. I myself don't need bits in this scenario. I am on the record for that. But like, okay, so for example,

when Bowen made the aside, the very thob-centric aside that there were a lot of CGI monkeys in the VFX lineup, which first of all, Bowen, former guest of this had Oscar buzz, you continue to be a Garyan spirit, and we love you. But, like, he said it. It was a quick aside. It was tossed off, and then they moved on. They did not do a whole Seth MacFarlane, Emma Stone, rat a tat tat about it, which I appreciate it. So there we go. If I was presenting the Oscar nominations, I would have to do a call out to Kathleen Turner and do a B-de-a or B-square. B-square. Yes, we love it. All right. So the rules, as always, should we do get into the rules for class of 20-24?

Should we do the Patreon shout-out first? We should do that, right? Let's, maybe just in case no one has ever listened to a class of episode, say what we're doing here. We have some categories that we think these movies have fallen into, just to give us a little bit of a format to talk about some of these movies. Right. We've added categories this year because we also have a larger list of movies this year. But we're going to be talking about movies that had buzz at some point, some sort of. stage, some type of formulation of buzz, whether it was anticipation before the movies were

seen, whether it was actively pushed for campaigns, movies that were very nearly nominated, movies that were not anywhere near nominated by the time of nomination morning. Exactly. Exactly. We're covering it all. We're doing it all. Yeah. And it does feel like more movies than we've had in the past few years, slash not

2020 because 2020 awards-wise was a lot of shit just being kind of thrown at the wall. Everything was a possibility in 2020. And things that maybe wouldn't have been possibilities or considered as possibilities because so much was so in flux

that year especially that it was like, well, we don't really know. Like, Netflix will pay $20 million for this movie. Well, and then every year I feel like there's one nomination that kind of sets a precedent for the next, you know,

a dozen years or whatever. It's just like, if Brian Tyree Henry can get a nomination for Causeway, then that opens the door for any number of other movies that seemingly were just sort of like relegated to streaming and nobody talked about them. Do you know what I mean? So like they're,

and this is no shade against either Brian, Tyree Henry or Causeway, both of which I thought were good. But I just feel like there are, once precedent is set, much like in our flawless, legal system are absolutely without question, perfect legal system.

Once precedent is set, then, you know, you have to consider what comes after. So, yeah. We're going to have some fun today. We're going to be talking about a lot of movies. Yeah. Hopefully making you remember some movies

you forgot about. And putting at least the second to last nail in the coffin for some of these, because these could all be future episodes. That is true. In which case, many nails, many nails and many coffins. Empty nails and empty coffins is my favorite song from Le Miserra. Joe, why don't you tell our listeners about our Patreon?

Yeah, we have a Patreon. It's called This Had Oscar Buzz Turbulent Brilliance. It's been around for over a year now. Over, yes, I can never remember when things actually launched. We've been doing this for a while, y'all. Um, it's only $5 a month. That's the best part of it. It's only $5 a month. You get bang for your buck. You get two full-length episodes every month. Uh, the first of those episodes that drops on the first Friday of the month, we call an exceptions episode, which is a movie that we would normally have loved to do on the flagship this had Oscar buzz show. But, oops, it got a nomination or two or three. Um, but otherwise, the rubric of great expectations and disappointing results, completely. Completely applies. Coming in February, we have a movie I've been dying to talk about since we've begun this had Oscar buzz. We are finally talking about the Phantom of the Opera. And to do so, we have brought on our dear friend and returning guest, Natalie Walker. So it's a time. We just recorded this. As we are speaking, we just recorded this last night. It was a blast. So super fun. We also have a stacked roster of episodes that we've already done for exceptions. including but not limited to House of Gucci, my best friend's wedding, W.E, Molly's Game, The Lovely Bones.

We welcomed our friend Jorge Molina to talk about Knives Out with us. We welcomed our friend Katie Rich to talk about Australia with us. Just so many. An absolute treasure trove of movies. And then for our second episode every month on the third Friday, we do what we call an excursion, which is not about a movie specifically, but is about a piece of movie slash awards-related ephemera that we obsess over, and we hope you do too, things like Entertainment Weekly's old fall movie preview issues, or we watch old award shows, or we talk about Hollywood Reporter roundtables. We have recently talked about the 1998 movie line issue where Jennifer Lopez talks her shit about everyone. Coming in February, we have our second annual

this had Oscar Buzz superlatives, which is our little award show. where we pick through the various other precursor awards and find their little irregulars, their little nuggets that are unique to them, be they the National Border Review Freedom of Expression Award, be they the Grulsh People's Choice Award from the Toronto Film Festival. We collect them all into an award show chosen by us and also by our patrons, because if you are a patron, you are able and encouraged to vote for the best film of the year. I got to say, the ballot's almost closing of what this top 10 will be, that Gary's got an interesting list.

They've got an interesting list. We love it. So to sign up for this had Oscar buzz, turbulent brilliance, you can go to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash this had Oscar buzz. Joe. Yes. What of the nominees this year do you think? could be potential exceptions episodes. I have to say,

since we've started the Patreon, it's getting harder and harder to add a list of exceptions because the academy is just like down ballot, basically. All of the craft categories are leading. I thought you said down bad for a second, and I was just like, also true. The craft categories are getting so best picture centric

that we're not really at. adding to the pile of exception episodes, which I guess is fine. We only do 12 of them here. We have plenty to choose from, but you're right. This is a complaint I know both you and I have, that it's just like, it really does feel like, and the way the academy votes, you know, they vote by branch. Everybody in the academy gets to vote for best picture, but, you know, the sound crafts people are voting for best sounds, cinematographers vote for cinematography, actors, vote for actors, etc.

but it is just The effect is it looks like they are not watching a whole lot of movies And I don't know when we have this many movies that are getting this many nominations It just feels a little bit like the field narrows too quickly and into too few movies I completely agree with you with that said I think there are at least two that jump out to me as good exceptions possibilities. One of them is Better Man. If you ever feel like watching Better Man again, it totally applies. It's actually like kind of a textbook this had Oscar Buzz case. That really feels like a movie that we would have to set like a threshold. Like if we get so

many Patreon subscribers, then Chris is willing to re-watch Better Man. The other one that jumped out at me is Maria. I think that's, you know, It would allow us to talk about the whole Pablo Lorraine and, you know. We can talk about Ed Lockman again. Yeah, we can talk about Ed Lockman again. Ed Lockman getting the only Maria nomination is so right. The cinematography in that movie is legitimately beautiful. It is the one really truly worthy aspect of that.

I mean, Lockman's a legend. I would also add a different man because it got that makeup nomination, which is rad as fuck and deserved. Yeah, part of me feels like. a different man maybe overachieved a little bit, except for the fact of that it really did seem like after that Golden Globe, like there was a chance that Sebastian Stan could get nominated for that instead of The Apprentice. I also don't think we would do an Apprentice episode because getting those two acting nominations, while that's a movie that also could have shown up and make up.

Agreed, agreed. I don't think, I think the reality of the situation for The Apprentice was like it did hit its Oscar C. I agree. I mean, if it had a different distributor, I think we would be having a different conversation about that movie. Like, say it got picked up by a neon or someone. Right. That could have, obviously, because it hit that ceiling, you know, if it, Briarcliff just doesn't have an imprint, so. The other movie we could do it, I know you just saw this and probably aren't very enthused to watch it again anytime soon, but the 6th AAA would definitely be an exceptions worthy. The way Netflix campaigned that movie, though, I don't, I think that they were

just going for the Diane Warren nomination. I don't think they were going for anything else. But 6-3-8 is definitely a movie that a year ahead, there was definitely thoughts of like, you know, a Tyler Perry pulls it together narrative was not, you know, fully out of the question, I feel like. I think that's one of those ones we could make that case for it. And then maybe September 5. Yeah, September 5 would be an interesting story. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I think that's true. So, yeah, there are some options. There are some possibilities there. That is for sure. But we don't have to think about that for a little bit. Right now, we are thinking about the class of 2024 and all of the movies that had in some way or another some degree of buzz. And it didn't happen. Some of which I will say, the night of before nominations came out, I sent out that little infographic questionnaire to you and Katie, and then we put it up on our Instagram. Who did better? Katie or me?

Honestly, I didn't even go back and look. I think, honestly, I think Katie did pretty well, but you were more pessimistic on the over-unders, and I think that ended up being true. So one of the things was I did over-under zero-point-five nominations, and then I did a series of movies. so it was baby girl hit the under blitz hit the under obviously the under is zero nominations civil war hit the under furiosa under last show girl under maria hit the over one nomination piano lesson under room next door under and then september five hit the over so only two of those movies um hit the over for that and only two of these was i no i was over i was uh I was wrong about three movies. I was wrong about Civil War, Last Showgirl, and September 5. Well, looking at those shortlists, I think the shortlists had me a little bit thrown because the shortlists seemed unusually enthusiastic about both Blitz and Civil War. And kind of Furiosa.

Like, all three of those movies, I couldn't quite tell. I'm like, one of these movies is going to end up getting something, if not two. And I wasn't quite sure which. And it turned out to be none of them. None of them. Campaign, Furiosa, I really don't. I mean, they really did. But Furiosa ended up on, like, the NBR list.

So, like, campaign or not, it was in the ether, you know what I mean? Yeah, it was in the ether, but as far as getting a nomination, a craft nomination at that, like, Hail Caesar is the outlier. Like, you do actually have to kind of push in some way. But I think those short lists end up, you know, they should at least mean something. You know what I mean, in terms of... A lot of people were confident, including me, I guess, on that Civil War getting in for visual effects. Yeah, even though now I look at it...

I remember at the time being like, are there a lot of visual effects in Civil War? In the final act of the movie, yeah. I mean, yeah, but like, are they all that impressive? You know what I mean? Where it's just like, again, we know that the visual effects branch likes, you know, big sort of flashy things. Obviously, our hope that this was going to be a five-for-five monkey-slash-Ape extravaganza did not come to pass. Only three monkey movies got nominated. Alien Romulus and Dune Part 2 completely spoiled our party.

I was very bent out of shape when I realized my final predictions I submitted over on the Angler Pundits. I just totally glossed over visual effects nominating Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. They love those apes. The most likely nominee, probably. Yeah. I just was like clicking away, not paying attention, I guess. Did you get any categories correct this year? Like the 5 for 5.

My only 5 for 5 was actress this year. No, I didn't get actress 5 for 5 at all. I didn't really make formal predictions. So, and I didn't cut this out. You was an Anklare pundit. I made my Ancler Pundit's predictions a while ago. and, like, didn't have time to update them before the day. So, sorry, sorry, next year.

Speaking of my five for five, we want to congratulate everyone at Sony Classics and team. I'm still here. We want to congratulate the entire nation of Brazil. We were so thrilled to see not only Fernando Torres show up, but also that Best Picture nomination, which I think really speaks to the way we're all kind of feeling right now. in this country. Uh-huh. How close do you think Walter Salas came to getting a best director nomination?

Probably not as close as the movie came to getting an adapted screenplay nomination. True, true. I did like the fact that when we all signed on to the live stream on YouTube, we all, everybody had the same reaction to the chat, which was Brazil flag, Brazil flag, Brazil flag, just like quickly scrolling. And I'm happy that that enthusiasm was rewarded with that Best Picture nomination. So long as that enthusiasm stays on positive enthusiasm and not mean, scary yelling, which is always, I feel like, follows, the good enthusiasm is always followed by the mean scary yelling.

So, you know, stay on the happy side of it, Brazil. We'd all appreciate it. All right. Let's get into categories. Let's do it. All right. First category, the Benedict Cumberbatch as Julian Assange in the fifth of State Most Forgettable Participation Trophy.

I love... You tried it. You tried it, or maybe we tried it as people who talk about potential Oscar nominations. I took this in a couple of different ways in terms of most forgettable, most forgotten kind of a thing, because there are some movies that are, that truly, like, absolutely disappeared. I feel like a lot of these were the 2020... The 2023 TIF actor-director crossovers that kind of went away. Did we ever hear about Wildcat again, the Ethan Hawk film Wildcat?

Did we ever hear about Knox Goes Away again? There's also, like, movies that I liked at 2023 Tiff, like One Life? Did you ever end up seeing One Life, the Anthony Hopkins movie? I didn't. I didn't. It just sat on my cue for months, and I never watched. It's a pretty solid movie, but, like, clearly once then it got pushed to the, this year rather than last year and it had a spring opening and then it's sort of just like

it it was basically just sort of like you know thank you but uh we know nobody's going to pay attention um in terms of movies that actually had a little bit of Ballyhoo going in but really now from this perspective have kind of officially died people were so fired up about back to black which i feel like the degree to which that movie had Oscar buzz is a real sort of fringe case I think any musical biopic at this point is people have a level of anticipation for it. A level of it. But like that obviously, obviously didn't go the right way. And now even the anger of it, I feel like, feels a billion years ago. Like, it just feels like that movie has come and gone and nobody's ever going to think about it again. I have nothing to say about this right now. I might later. Okay. And then the other one I had here is not even a movie that I disliked necessarily. But,

Saturday night as an awards entity did not last longer than its opening weekend. I think once it became clear that this was not going to be in any way a populist kind of a movie. I think it was Saturday night not catching on at the box office was all that haters of that show needed to sort of point to and be like, see, nobody cares about Saturday Night Live anymore. This is a show. Yeah, but the second it's on Netflix, because it will be. It's a Sony movie. all the boomer parents are going to make that movie number one on Netflix for weeks. It's very possible. Maybe that's the rare movie that would have done better as a Netflix movie just from the break. But it just, people stopped talking about it. I know Gabriel LaBelle got the Golden Globe nomination for Best Actor in a Musical or Comedy. But even that felt like the least memorable Golden Globe nomination of all of them. I liked this movie.

And good for Gabrielabelle. Good for it. Listen, I love Gabrielabelle. I loved Cooper Hoffman, and I liked that movie. I wished it had been better on a couple of fronts, but I certainly didn't hate it. But it really did just absolutely disappear in the ensuing months. Are these like runners-up? Do you have a singular choice for your most-

Saturday night? If I had to pick one, it's Saturday night. I wouldn't just go into fair warning you. I have no singular choice for any of these. I have multiple for all of these. Yeah, I think I'm going to be doing a runner-up, than the one. Okay.

I appreciate your rigor and my lack of rigor. See, listener, we both were feeling this way before we got on mic that we were like, we added more categories to talk about more movies. And it's just like this feels like though award season is not normal yet post-COVID, this does feel most normal it's been since COVID because we have so many movies to talk about that it's hard to pin. For the first time, it feels hard. to pin any of these categories on one movie and our categories are like yeah getting to be very similar but that's that's okay we're here to talk about a lot of movies today so next category

is what we're calling the hashtag justice for well i didn't say mine oh shit i'm sorry you just completely are we just here for you today yes we're just here for me it's all but i'm so sorry chris no give us here julian asaw's truly early most forgettable was most forgettable was most forgettable. I have already forgot. You know what was most forgettable on this campaign season? Pamela Anderson dating Julia and Assange and we were just like going to let that happen. I forgot about that. You're absolutely right. I did forget about. Yeah, because every time people were like, woo Pamela Anderson. I was like, you know, she was mistreated and I do understand all of that. But are we just not going to ask me a question about her dating Julian Assange? Anyway. Um, yeah. All right. So my runner up for most forgettable, the participation trophy. Um, I feel like gay guys, like you and I kind of never let this movie go. But like this movie was in production a few years ago. We knew that Neon was going to release it at some point. And we were like, oh, it's definitely going to be on like a TIF slate at some point.

But Mother's Instinct, which was released basically around the globe. Yes, but not here. Except for the U.S. And then when it released in the U.S., it was like, it has one show. time in the city of New York City and one showtime in like five other theaters in the country and then they drop it a few weeks later on VOD and Hulu and it was just like oh so neon just like they forgot about this movie they don't care about this thing can I tell Anne Hathaway and Jessica Chastain in a mother off truly I still haven't seen it because I was

waiting for the moment when like we'd have some sort of collect experience of it, and it never happened. Even, I think, the gay guys forgot about it. And it's like, I think it's maybe, it's hard to say anything about this movie is overblown, but the, it never quite rises to the level of thriller or, you know, I think, I think it's an okay movie, but I think the idea of people being like, it's just okay. everybody's like it's okay negative but I think it's okay middle of the road and we need these movies and we need these movies sure in theaters but that's not the fantasy we wanted out of that movie we wanted that movie to be the alien due of this year it's not campy anyone any critic who's calling this movie campy it's just like okay so you you had your seven adjectives ready to go before you even saw the movie great right right right yeah

But it is, like, both actresses are good in the movie. Yeah. It's just, like, there's not a whole lot to the script. You kind of figure they just wanted to work together again. I wanted, I was hoping for, like, hand that rocks the cradle level melodrama. Yeah, it's not, it's not that. It's more serious drama. But my actual winner, that was my runner-up, my winner-up, my winner is a movie that really just, like, got deeply buried.

And that is Wolfe's. Sure, I have Wolfe's Apple Wolves. Which I watched a week or so ago. And it is, it's very forgettable specifically for the Clooney and Pitt stuff. But honestly, I walked away being like Austin Abrams should be in more movies. I really liked him. Well, we like Austin Abrams.

But also, like, the release of that movie was kind of designed for people to forget about it. Like, it got it not only just a theatrical run, but an IMAX run pulled out from under it at the last minute. There was supposed to be sequels. And, like, absolutely, we are the first people to talk about wolves. Didn't they do the press release? Didn't they try and spin it as a positive of, like, instead of doing sequels and releasing it in a theater, we're going to give it to you on VOD early, you know, or on Apple TV Plus early? Yeah. And they tried to sell it as being like, we like it so much that we are just going to invest fully in it on Apple TV Plus.

And I'm like, people. And then never mention it again. Wolfe's, a motion picture currently on Apple TV Plus. We've had the Jules Sparkles conversation offline about this year on Drag Race. Wolfs is the Jules Sparkles of Movies. And that like every time I say that title, I know the title is purposefully that way because the whole idea is it's too low. wolves, so it's like it's wolf and wolf. And the idea is that like two lone wolves can't really work together. So it sounds, you know, wrong. I just sent you like a slew of double positives of

this. No, no, no, no, no, no. With this sounds crazy. Can I also say, Jewel Sparkle's is so annoying. It's been like good enough in performance that I can't be like get Jewel Sparkles out of there. But like, I'm so sick of Jewel Sparkles narrating this season. I can't even tell you. The 180 of her being like, oh, she's so cute and sweet. I like her, and she does beautiful drag. And then all of a sudden it's like, she's annoying and mean, actually. Remember in that first episode how her and Arietti both seemed like very sweet and nice? And then all of a sudden it's just like, oh, they're the most like sour, grapesiest, like, poutiest people.

Sore winners. Speaking of a category coming. Sore everything. Anyway, yeah, that's a good choice. A motion picture. All right. Now. I will step in and announce our next category,

which is the hashtag Justice for Widows Award for She deserved better, like, seriously. So, Chris, you are going to lead this one off. This is really hard, because this is maybe where I'm about to give you five different movies. I definitely have literally five here. I have five here. No, I have four in my list. Okay.

So maybe I'll do three runners up and then one... Okay. And I think you're going to mention at least one of these movies too. Probably. So I'll just briefly say his three daughters. There's many categories we could talk about his three daughters. That's a movie that anyway. I would also say the room next door.

I'm going to keep that as a runner up because I understand not everybody is as high on that movie as I am. I think those people are wrong and I think some of the dismissive. things that have been said about that movie are like categorically wrong and there's a real misread on that movie and I think that's a really really special movie which is why it'll be really fun to do an episode on it when we eventually do an episode

maybe not and maybe not for the same reason as three daughters it's those are movies that are very special to me right now but would be very hard to talk about Edling didn't think about that but yes my other runner up that I would say and this is a movie that I think kind of across the board deserved better and just kind of got buried every step of the way. And that's the

fire inside. Sure. Yes. Good movie. Which, I mean, like, in advance of that TIF premiere, you know, word wasn't great on that movie. They had several rounds of reshoots. Yeah. So people kind of thought that it would be, you know, just an acceptable sports movie. I actually think it's a good sports movie for a lot of different reasons and like the one that a lot of people talk about is the third act which is very you know what happens after sports success you know that the sports movies never ignore and kind of ultimately the culture of that in sports movies and how we tell these stories adds to the problem um but i also think ryan destiny is great in that movie uh brian tary henry obviously great in that movie yeah um and like it's

it got buried at that TIF because there was so many sports movies. It got buried at the Christmas box office. That it definitely did. It definitely got buried at the Christmas box office. My memory of Tiff was that I started hearing people talking about how specifically Brian Tyree Henry was great in that movie. And I remember being surprised because I thought that movie was just dead on the vine, right? So I was, at least at Tiff, there was some sort of ground swell from people who did check it out being like, no, it's good.

Like, you know, so that's when it sort of started to pick up for me. That's why I went and sought it out. And I did like it, but you're totally right that, like, it needed to open at a time when, and maybe Christmas box office was the best time. And it just, like, there was too much competition or whatever, not enough publicity. But, yeah, it's too bad because that was a really good movie. The movie I'm actually going to award this to the Justice for Widow, hashtag Justice for Widow's Award. for she deserved better, like, seriously. Um, a movie that I think got a very unfair

festival reception and probably entered the world at the wrong time. And then when it got like not even half released, just like fully kind of dumped. I think this movie hasn't even made $100,000 at the box office. Um, that's Joshua Oppenheimer's The End. Yeah. I think while it was. definitely a mistake to take that movie to Tell Your Ride for its world premiere. I think the reactions out of Tell Your Ride were categorically unfair to that movie

of people just calling it like one of the worst movies of the year. I saw like single star reviews for that movie out of Telluride. That's crazy. This is not going to help my perception that, you know, people can't be challenged, even an Iota at Telluride. before they just like dismiss something entirely and then

when it showed it TIF it was so late like there was never going to be any it was supposed to be the last thing that I saw and then I had to change my schedule so I didn't end up seeing it until a few weeks later in New York and the press screening was early

because I was at that screening and it but it competed with a lot of different stuff including the Brutalist So, like, it just was kind of this perfect storm for the movie to not get recognized. And then it's the typical neon thing where they put all their chips in one movie's basket and something else inevitably gets screwed. And much like clemency, much like other movies as well.

What do you think would have been the best avenue, though, to go for awards for the end? Because I don't think that's a movie that... You could do, like, an across-the-board thing. I really feel like you would have needed to, like, zero in on something. I mean, the best thing for the movie is probably to not release it in awards season. Well, yeah. Just to get more eyeballs on the thing for it to not be competing with all these other movies for literal space, for literal screens. But, I mean, original song.

I know that there's certain, especially for musicals that. maybe the songs are not the best thing about them. I do think there's actually good songs in the end, but I think that the songs in that movie, I, again, I apologize. I do not mean to continually dump on Amelia Perez. And if you are a fan of that movie, I genuinely am, you know, I'm less negative than it sounds at times. I didn't thoroughly despise it. But I just like, as a musical, I do end up continually comparing it negatively to things. And I feel like if you say, stack that movie's songs up against the songs in the end, neither of which are like these breakaway pop numbers or whatever, neither of which are going to end up, like, they're not

going to, we don't talk about Bruno any of these songs, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The songs from the end are like, I was like, this is like a Lechisa musical. This is, this is a musical that world premieres at Playwright's Horizons. But like, I think just in general, it's so much stronger than the songs in Amelia Perez and the sort of like the actual sort of, the way that it hangs. together as a musical. I think that's the other thing about Amelia Perez is like even on like you can talk about those songs individually. I don't think that show hangs together, that movie hangs

together as a musical of like a cohesive set of songs, whereas the end does really, really well. And I also think there's an element of that movie. We hear the words Joshua Oppenheimer musical, especially after his two landmark documentary. is the act of killing and end of silence. Look of silence, apologies. You know, you expect it to be doing a thing in a way that, like, people say, like, Amelia Perez, Emilia Perez is doing a thing with the musical. I don't really think it is.

I think it's more straightforward. But, like, sure, sure. The end is a straightforward musical. It's not doing a thing. It is, I think that's jarring for people. Also, they sing so well, they sing so well despite living in a salt mine, and I imagine it's dry as fuck down there. So, like, I don't know where they find the lubrication for their vocal cords, so good for them. My choice is, I definitely had his three daughters, a movie that we've talked about a lot on this podcast in various forms and have sort of bemooned.

Room for other categories for us to talk about it again. Bemoaned the Netflix of it all in the way that, like, that as soon as it got acquired by Netflix, I think we all sort of, like, predicted the few. future, and unfortunately we were all very right. I'm throwing Thelma in here, as I often do, in terms of she deserved better, like seriously. Thelma completely applies. I watched that movie, and I was like, this is a Little Miss Sunshine level of a movie. Like, this is a movie that could succeed to that degree. I don't know if we make Little Miss Sunshine's that way anymore. I don't think if, I don't, I know that, like, some people could compare something like Coda to that, but I think it's completely different. I think something like Coda succeeds

because it, it sort of appeals to a more sincere kind of, you know, emotionality. Whereas the comedy of Thelma felt very much like, yes, it's, it's heartwarming. Yes, it's, you know, um, happy. You know what I mean? Yes, you know what I mean? Yes, you know, sort of like you walk out of the movie feeling like, you know, you're smiling out of your walking out of that one. I just don't know if in this current sort of awards climate, a movie like Little Miss Sunshine would have been a past picture nominee. You know what I mean? And I feel like, I feel that way with Thelma. I think Thelma from a distributor with more reach than Magnolia, all respect to the good people at Magnolia. That's fair. Like if Thelma had been acquired

by Netflix, I think that's a completely different awards trajectory for that movie. I would like to believe that. I think if that movie was on Netflix, that movie would have been huge. Well, I hope so. I keep trying to get people to see it because it is now on HBO Max. It's on, I can't remember which streamer. It's on. I think Magnolia is with Hulu. Hulu? Yes, it is Hulu. Because I keep trying to get my parents to watch it because my parents would love this movie, but my parents don't know how to watch anything on Hulu that isn't only murders in the building, which is fine, which is great. I'm glad they watch that, but anyway, Thelmo's great. I also threw in, I threw in Baby Girl here. I didn't

know where to throw in Baby Girl, but like clearly that she deserved better, definitely applies. She being Harris Dickinson. She being Harrison's gold chain. If there was an award for best inanimate object at the Oscars, which maybe there should be. Wait for the The parlatives, baby. We're going to do that. I'm saying right now we're going to do that. Well, then I'll keep my mouth shut. But I think just in general, I was famously over-optimistic about Baby Girl. I walked out of that tip screening being like, this movie is going to be a massive popular hit. Not only a hit, but like everybody is going to be talking about Baby Girl. This is going to be like the movie that young people will spend the entire sort of month of December. talking about and making social media posts about and whatever. It's going to be a Best Picture nominee. I think Nicole could win Best Actress.

I think you could see Harris Dickinson and Antonio Banderas both getting supporting actor nominations. I was as rosy as you could possibly be for Baby Girl. And what happened was that the movie that the young people flocked to and made memes about and couldn't shut up about was Conclave. If you had told me that at TIF, I would have called you a fucking liar. Yep, yep, yep. What's the hot, sexy movie of 2024 for the young generation and queer guys?

It's fucking conclave. It's not baby girl. What the fuck? Baby girl, I still think, did well. I think financially it did what I expected. It's going to be in the top 10 of A24's movies. Exactly. Exactly.

It just didn't end up being an awards player. I thought it was going to be a sensation. I really did. And it wasn't. I think there's maybe a level of sexiness and I think especially using the words erotic thriller. Yeah, it's not a movie service in that way, especially in the way that some people perceived it because I do think some people were underwhelmed by that movie. And it's because they expected more of that angle. I almost think Baby Girl is just a comedy.

It is a very dry comedy. It is. Well, and the ways in which it is not a thriller are the ways in which it surprised me, and that's one of the things that I love most about it. The fact that Harris Dickinson is not some, like, sinister figure, the fact that Harris Dickinson's character trying to figure out how to Dom in this movie is as interesting as anything else to do with the Kidman character, which I think is what makes the movie better than what you. better and funnier because I think his performance is so funny. Well, it's not that he's figuring out how to be a dumb. To her. He's figuring out how to, like, he's like, you don't understand the rules of this.

And it's frustrating, man. Like, he's probably had an easier go of being a dumb and not having to explain. He doesn't know how to be a dom to her is specifically what I'm, yeah. He doesn't know how to be a dom to someone sexually illiterate. And it's very funny. It is. It's great, though. Those are the best parts of the movie to me.

Also, the song, the needle drops, obviously, which you were on top of... Oh, go read my piece at The Daily Beast. Please do. It's so rewarding. But so I just think in general, I was definitely, you know, I will own my L's. I will take the L on Baby Girl. I could not have been more wrong in my predictions about where that movie was going. And there, I also, just because I don't know where better to throw this in, I'm throwing Will and Harper in here, too, just because I do feel like Will and

or deserve better. I know there was a spectrum of enthusiasm that some people, I think everybody kind of like baseline was like, I'm glad this movie exists. Their friendship is lovely, and I like watching them. I think there was a spectrum of how much people were willing to give the movie credit as a movie, and that's fine. It is a documentary that very much sort of sets up the pins and knocks them down in the way it sort of like moves from scenario to scenario. I also like, if you are not a person who likes documentaries about famous people, that's fine. I found it really moving. I found watching it in the immediate aftermath of the election to be really moving and in ways that

we're both, you know, optimistic and sort of like then rebound kind of sad after the fact. So I really loved it. I think I would have really appreciated it showing up in best documentary. I would have really appreciated it. It made the short list and I did not expect that to happen. So that kind of gave me hope that it would show up. And then I really wanted that best original song nomination for Kristen Wigg. I think I haven't really dug into a lot of all of the songs this year. But I imagine that's going to rank higher than at least one or two of them for me on my own personal list. I probably sound very like when we get on our high horse of like I'm right when I'm right and this this matters unless I say it doesn't I feel very well yes that's correct about them not doing original song on the telecast this year performing those songs because I know I've been up on my high horse about how they should never do that and this year I'm like honestly fine if you're not going to put Maren Morris on that. stage, fine. I do, and I do feel like they probably went to Zoe Saldania and Selena Gomez and we're like, if we do song performances, do you want to perform? And I think they both said no. And I think they were like, that we're not going to do it. If you are a nominee, it is probably very, very hard to do like a production number. Yeah, it's, well, and especially now with like everything that's going on in Los Angeles. And I imagine

everybody's schedules and are in a good degree of flux. So that, you know, sure. I mean, it would have maybe been an opportunity to employ some dancers that, you know, can use the gig out in LA right now. But I'm sure that there's other opportunities to do that on the show. Listen, with the 6th AAA song nominated and with Debbie Allen doing the choreography for the 6th AAA, just bring in Debbie Allen and do dance performances for all of the songs. And I said this in the group chat and I stand by it. The Diane Warren nomination this year, probably better than half of her other nominations. I'm excited to dig into that. All right. I had another one here, but it's going to apply probably better somewhere else, so I'm going to put a pin in that. I love that we're just allowed to have

different rules about what we're doing here. There are no rules. Because I'm like, I might repeat some of these. You're like, I'll save it for another one. I have run, you know, let's move on to the next category, though. Less. The Jared Leto in the Little Things Prize for Crisis Averted. She did not deserve better. I like that our awards categories are resurfacing movies that we have all decided to forget about, like the Fifth Estate and The Little Things.

That's what we do here. I imagine we both have the same number one here, and it's the last showgirl. I think we were both in those last couple weeks really, really afraid that the last showgirl. And afraid sounds more. If you want us to only be nice, please skip forward a few minutes because I think this is where I'm going to finally say some of the shit I wanted to say. I will leave most of it to you, but just to say that like those SAG nominations, SAG plus BAFTA really had everybody really convinced that Jamie Lee Curtis was getting nominated. I didn't predict her, but only out of like a sheer determination to sort of put, to be the change I wanted to see in the world.

And then I actually thought at the last minute that I was maybe more wrong about Pam than I was about Jamie Lee that I was like at the when you know that thing. Remember I've talked about here before where it's just like it's that momentary thing right before the names get read where you're like a flash of recognition threshold of revelation happens and you feel like you know what's going to happen. And I had that for Pamela Anderson and it didn't come true. So it doesn't always happen correctly. I was so I had to catch. myself because I was I was bracing because Pam would have been first and then all the like what when did this recently happen that it was like the first nominee set the whole chain of it well it maybe it was something that didn't show up I forget what that was in the recent year that it was like the first name we knew that chaos was about to go down yes I I didn't get to even feel the immediate oh fuck Marianne didn't make it yeah it was already past that alphabetically. Yeah.

Because when I realized what was happening, I was like, yes, Fernanda made it. Yeah. Yeah. Which, like, I can't believe it took me this long to get into this episode. We'll save it for it. I'm saving it. It's fine. Yeah.

We'll get into it. But, okay. So, the last showgirl. I'm sorry. I think that movie is in common. competently assembled. The repeat montages that happen several times in this movie, at least three to five times we watch basically the same montage

because there's transitional scenes that are not in the movie. It's very repetitive. That are necessary to be there. And like the big mother-daughter reunion scene happens, and then there's a montage, and then the mother-daughter breakup scene happens immediately after. It's just like, this is an editing problem, this is a screenwriting problem, this is a directing problem. This movie is not, it doesn't hang together.

And, like, that's not the actor's fault. But I do think that there was a little bit of tryhardiness around this movie that, like, I understand because, like, I think some of that goes to, like, people want to support what this movie represents. I do, too. but this movie is not it. And, like, where is that energy for something like the fire inside, which, by the way, represents a lot of those same things? You know, where was this energy around other movies that are good movies? I don't like making scurlus?

What the fuck is the word I'm thinking of? I don't like presuming other people's motives around. what they're supporting either. I don't, but I do think the energy of, no, this is a great movie, guys, was a little try hard. Well, and the thing that I was trying to say was I don't support. This is where I mean to anyone who skipped forward, I understand. I don't like throwing around sort of like nepo discourse willy-nilly. But I do feel like if this wasn't a Gia Coppola movie, this movie probably does not get as far as it got. I think there is a level to which people kind of want her to be the sort of Wunderkind that sort of Sophia was. And obviously, sort of coming from this sort of like vaunted Coppola family tree. Well, stretches of the movie are not even shot in focus.

Like, it's out of focus. Like, I think you have, I think you have incredibly on point sort of structural and technical complaints about the movie, which I agree with all of them. My further complaint is just like, as a story, it feels like, and again, I don't mean this as a criticism to anybody who liked the movie. If you liked this movie, I support you. I like many movies that a lot of people don't like. But I do feel like it is in some way a movie for babies just on a narrative level.

It just feels very simple, too simple, too, you know, basic. And it doesn't like And it's not like There's no second level to any of It is very first thought Throughout the whole movie And I don't There there

You know you can say that there is an Unfulfillment of the narrative Like the narrative doesn't complete itself In certain ways I'm sure some people would say Is intentional But like there are scenes missed There are integral scenes missing

From this story Like my experience of watching the movie, as I was watching it, I was like, oh, did this have like a troubled production because like it reads very troubled production. And that's not like the big emphasis here was Pamela Anderson's performance. I'm on the record of thinking she's good in the movie. If you want to read a defense of that performance specifically, our friend and former and future guest, Roxanna Haddadi wrote about it on Vulture. wrote about PAM specifically very, very well. Highly recommended to go check that out. Not the same is true for Jamie Lee Curtis, which is a performance that I found to be really distasteful. I thought the way that character was written, presented,

was already distasteful, and then I think the performance itself. Well, that character is not Jamie Lee Curtis's fault. I do think that, listen, I've been fucked over by Spell-Chair. before myself, but that Jamie Lee Curtis trying to do the Melissa Leo-consider thing where she misspelled actress?

First of all, that's the only word you're not allowed to misspell. You can't try to do a Melissa Leo Consider photo thing and misspell the word actress. That's the one word you can't misspell.

I agree. Though I did feel like, This is cosmically what's going to happen for this movie is that Jamie Lee Curtis is going to get nominated and Pam isn't. It would have been the classic Halo nomination, right? The classic your next thing after your Oscar nomination. I will say- Pam wouldn't have been a great nomination because of what probably would have been shut out if she had made it in. But the real crisis averted to me is Jamie Lee Curtis getting nominated.

I, as somebody who has spent most of the year assembling a Spotify playlist of songs from 2024 movies, which I promise I will eventually post on our Patreon. I'm just trying to annotate it. The best thing about The Last Showgirl was the additions that I was able to make to that playlist. Not only the original song that Miley Cyrus does, which I genuinely think is good, but some really good needle drops. Total Eclipse of the Heart. A really bad one, though. What one?

I think that use of Total Eclipse of the Heart is. unforgivable. I don't disagree, but like I'm never going to not put that song on a playlist if I can because of it. But I think the Pat Benatar needle drop is genuinely great in that movie. The shadows of the needle drop. I think it's, I love that song so much. But anyway, we don't have to keep talking about Last Showgirl. My runner-up is Civil War. I'm sorry. I find that to be a nothing burger of a movie. I liked it better than you, but like I'm not going to, you know, lay on a track for it or anything like that. So I didn't, I didn't, I I run the risk of being hypocritical by mentioning a movie I still haven't seen yet.

But I was glad to see, for as much as I had a problem with the miserableism of memoir of a snail, I was glad that Moana, too, did not get nominated because I don't think we need to be setting the precedent of Disney plus cash grabs getting hastily turned into movies and then getting Oscar nominations for them. I think we should be awarding movies being put into theaters rather than. But this was supposed to be a series. Yeah. Moana 2 is a little different. It's a little different. Though, I mean, it was a bad decision in the first place to be like, we're making a TV show.

And also, like, you know, to do songs but not bring Lin-Manuel back to do songs. I know he was doing songs for Mufa instead, and that still didn't work out Oscar-wise. Also, again, I don't want to dump on a horror movie because horror movies is, do, you know, have a hard enough time at the Oscars. But like, I was glad that the heretic thing didn't end up happening. I was kind of concerned for a minute there. Okay. All right. Putting a pin in that then. Let's move on to let's be happy again. Let's not be so just yet. The get in my fur prize for closest miss slash almost nominated. I have several. So, Chris, uh, why don't you start? Um, this is where I'm going to talk about.

two of my favorite movies of the year. My runner-up is Dahomey. Meta Diop's documentary or probably better... Short-listed twice. Non-fiction film. Yes, shortlisted in international feature and in documentary. I kind of had a feeling, and I think I dropped it out of my prediction last minute, that this is not something the documentary branch specifically would go for and...

you know, just not really their their, you know, they, I don't want to say their taste is more didactic, but something that's a little bit more risk-taking and something that's more truer to be saying this is a nonfiction film than this is just a straight documentary, though I think as something that's, you know, presenting a true documentary rather than art,

ambitious non-fiction. I sound so pretentious right now. You know, I think it has appeal in that way. I just didn't think the doc branch would go for it, especially with what their tastes are skewing more journalistic documentary. Journalistic documentary and also you've not been nominated or given an Oscar before. Right. And that's maybe not true of something like,

all the beauty and the bloodshed getting nominated, though did not win. And then for international feature, it, you know, there is a real lack of recognition towards African cinema that I hope gets, you know, looked at. And I hope that, you know, more opportunities and people like us talking about it a little bit more, hopefully gets those movies recognized in this category in some fashion. Can I ask it? Incredible. Go watch it on Mooby. It's 70 minutes of your day and your brain will be activated for all 70 minutes of it. Yeah. I'm looking forward to watching it.

When we talk about that for international feature and when you talk about the fact that they have not awarded or nominated African cinema nearly enough. It's a multi-pronged issue because, you know, distributors aren't picking up these movies so that they can get a push and like, you know. So how would we view something like, and this will apply next year because it doesn't open until next year, but something like on becoming a guinea foul, which was, had it been released this year, would have been in my top five and certainly opens 2025 at the top of my list. And I don't really think A24 is going to give that movie a push. It's dated for March. They're releasing two other movies that same month. But is that a movie that could still, it's probably going to be a, it's kind of Locumera itself,

where people are going to just be like, wasn't that a last year priority? They were originally going to qualify it and they didn't. But even if you don't qualify it, I do still feel like, in terms of like, we thought that there was a possibility that it was going to be the foreign language. film presented by Zambia. And then it wasn't. There was also a chance that it could be the U.K.'s submission. So, and then I think... Because U.K. had submitted, I am not a witch. But so you go into next year and, like, are there now a just a new list of priorities for those countries? Obviously, for the UK, probably much more of a case. Perhaps Zambia still feels like

it's their best shot at a nomination, but like it could have, you know, submitted it this year even without it getting a release. Yada, yada, yada. There's also calendar. For an international feature, the country submitting it has to release it in that country within certain dates. So it could just... There's a lot of rules that are hemming in the possibilities here. But my question is, were that movie to be nominated as the UK's submission? Do we still credit that as a win for African cinema? Is that just like an overly simplistic way of me being like...

I mean, I think as like cinema and cinema financing gets more global, I mean, you look at something like all we imagine is light, which is like, yes. It was almost the French submission. This is why this category needs a huge overhaul, and we've talked about this before. Yeah, C of the Sacred Fink is Germany's submission. Right. If that movie wins international feature, that Oscar doesn't even go to Mohamed Rosalov. It goes to Germany. But so that's a very good example, though.

So you look at this example. because if you just looked at the nominated countries, France, Latvia, Denmark, Germany, Brazil, right? So four European countries and then Brazil. But if you look at what languages these are in, right, then you get into Persian is the language in Seed of the Secret Fig. If you look at where these films are set, obviously Amelia Perez is set in Mexico. Seed of the Sacred Fig is set in Iran. And Flo has not. No dial on. Who the hell knows where flow happens, right? Flow is set in the land of mist. Right. So it changes a little bit the sort of the texture of the category a little bit. And it just sort of goes to show that, like, we are getting a little bit more borderless when it comes to a lot of these movies.

Not all of them. Obviously, there are still movies that are very sort of intensely from within one country's, you know, know, sort of cinema. But I think it once again goes to show that like international feature is a category that really could use a real fresh perspective, just in general. You know what I mean? And there's no sweeping rule, I think, that needs to go in place here or no like see change on how things are done. But there are certain things. There are small changes that could be done to make a significant difference here. Yeah. And like not all of these, not all of these issues are the academy's issue, especially when it comes to distribution.

We're dealing with gray areas. Does matter. Yeah. And like to bring it back to Dahomey, I guess, like, it would have also been a nice thing to see for Mooby. Mooby had a great year, obviously with the substance. They also got an international feature with Girl with the Needle. So like, Mooby's going to be a bigger and bigger player, too. So I would have also liked to have seen it for them.

Yeah. But Maddie Diop, God, I love her movies. Well, I almost would have put Maddie Diop in one of the other categories that we have coming up because I do feel like as these movies, you know, even if they don't get nominations, that's an uptick in attention and an uptick and attention. And at some point, you know, it crests. This movie could have applied to a lot of different categories we have. I think just I was surprised to see it shortlisted for both documentary and international feature, so that feels close. But for me, the winner of, you know, nearly nominated is Hard Truths. Yeah, I figured you would put that here.

I mean, the best movie of the year. I hope people are still going out and seeing that in theaters, despite it not getting a nomination. A movie that I would probably believe it if you said that it was sixth place on at least two categories and probably in the top ten on a handful more. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people were predicting Mike Lee to show up an original screenplay, including me. Yeah. I really thought this would be the third time that, you know, a movie, a Mike Lee film that was mostly talked about for a performance managed to not get nominated for that performance but gets in and screenplay. I thought Marianne and John Baptiste was going to get nominated.

I was certain of it. I really was. I know. And it's, it sucks. because it's a monumental performance that everybody needs to still go out and see. And she's the second person to win all three of the top critics' best actress prizes after who. Sally Hawkinson had me go lucky. Yes, God, I didn't even make that connection, even though it had been in the back of my mind.

Yes, yep, you're totally right. At least since like the year 2000, I don't know if that's true for the entire history of National Society, New York, and L.A. Yeah. I was also really, really on board with the idea that Michelle Austin was going to barnstorm supporting actors at the end and you will never be able to convince me otherwise. You know that would have made me so happy. I have very little evidence to back it up, but I will be certain of it forever that I was like she only needed a couple more weeks to get in there. Yeah. Yeah. And like this, I think as far as just to talk about it not getting nominated, you know, there's been a lot of ink. There's almost been more frustrating ink about. this, then the quality of this movie. Agreed. This movie, not getting selected by various festivals. Yeah.

Outright being turned down by Cannes, Telluride, and Venice. Do you think that is, that boils down to kind of a historical beef between Lee and the people who run the festivals, that there's just sort of bad blood there? Because he's bitched about not being selected. And I know some people have been like, well, that's why this movie wasn't selected. And some people are like, well, this is a movie about black people, and these festivals have a history of not representing black people in their selections. I think some of it maybe go, I mean, I think a lot of this, you know, all respect to the good people at Bleaker Street,

I think some of this goes down to Bleaker Street because some of those things, I think it's probably an amalgam of everything that this movie wasn't in those, this movie was turned down by those festivals. But, you know, the negotiating power of certain production companies and certain distributors of getting their movies selected for those festivals. Because you look at some movies and it's like, well, why the fuck did that play at Venice? Or why was that in the can competition? And, you know, some of it goes back to that.

It goes, and it's not just the name draw of a tournament. director that gets a movie in, it goes to the negotiating power of these, you know, production companies and distributors. And sometimes that power goes to, okay, well, if you want this movie that you very clearly want, you also have to play this other movie in one of your sidebars. You know, there is a gamification to it. And I think this movie was poorly positioned in that regard. But the fact that it did start from that starting position and get to the point that it got, I think, is a testament to not only the quality of the movie, but the sort of enthusiasm of the people who are in that movie's corner. I'm not just speaking of you, but obviously you were

one of this movie's great cheerleaders from the beginning, but I think a lot of people were. I think, obviously, when I talk about the Oscars and why I love the Oscars as a sort of yearbook for its yearbook function more than anything. It obviously is much better to be nominated and to be on that list that then sort of stands in perpetuity forever. But I do feel like for a small handful of movies that become like the story of this movie didn't get nominated and it's an outrage, I think there is at least some value, some sort of longer lasting tale to people are going to remember hard truths as the movie that got shafted

this year. Yeah. And I think probably even more so than something like happy go lucky in terms of Lee's filmography. And I hope that the fact that this movie didn't get nominated doesn't negatively impact his securing financing for the movie he wants to film this year. And hopefully we can all show up for that movie. I just caught a snippet of him. I just caught a snippet of him last night, him and

Marianne on Christian Amampur's show on PBS. And he was talking about how he's already got another movie that he's, you know, working on. And yes, we can all hope that the financing for that will not be so hard to find. I think there's two movies right now that say, this is who we are and this is where we're at. It's this, and I'm still here. And sure, I think people should see these movies just for that reason alone, let alone. They're great. My picks for Get in My Fur closest miss. I had the trio of craft movies that I talked about earlier, Furiosa Civil War Blitz. I really, really thought that those movies were going to probably, I kind of thought, you know, one of the a piece, I thought, that they would each get one craft nomination apiece and turned out none of them. It goes into the longer conversation we had a little bit earlier and have been having

forever about the slimming of the overall nomination thing. I'm, again, hoping to be able to write about that at some point. I think the piano lesson, I was surprised, if only because I figured this was the year. I think I thought that SAG nomination for Danielle Deadweiler was going to be, you know, a good enough sign. Ultimately, SAG, much more bullish on Netflix stuff, that remains true. But my, my biggest one here was challengers. I understand the fact that it was, you know, coming from the spring and ultimately was not the campaigning priority of its own director. But I thought... Well, almost being nominated, though, like, I think one of the biggest surprises was that that score was not nominated.

That's the thing. I think we all assumed that it was going to be, if not, this is the other thing is, I feel like there was a world in which challengers got five nominations. I know that's like the best possible scenario world, but like there's a world in which it got score and song and screenplay and, you know, in a best case scenario editing. So like, okay, maybe four. but at the very least song, but I just think, I think it is, it did so well, it overperformed in the precursor season enough to give me hope. It won that Golden Globe for song. It won, you know, other prizes. It kept showing up. And I was like, this testament to the fact that, like, people liked this movie. Just ultimately, the bottom line was that, like, people dug this movie. And I wish that were enough. You know what I mean?

I wish just having a hugely popular movie that is flawlessly executed and will be remembered for, you know, decades was enough. And ultimately, again, I think challengers and hard truths are that sort of the two movies that you look at this and be like, wow, like they didn't get anything. That's kind of crazy. And, you know. Amazon's bad at campaigning. I mean, like, it comes down. Like, the, you know, this whole thing of, well, it's a relief that Nickel Boys made it into Best Picture, at least, but that movie's nomination tally is Paltry, considering the bona fides of that movie. Amazon's not good at this.

Amazon has a history of not being good campaigning for Emmys, and I don't think they're good at campaigning for Oscars either. So, yeah. Well, unfortunately. All right. So the next one, well, you say this next one. Next prize, the Stanley Tucci Honorary Award for Resume Building, sponsored by LinkedIn. I have so many here, Chris. Like, honestly.

This is a category that's like you're building a narrative to get nominated for a roster. You didn't get a nomination, but this is going to be a stepping stone. So we don't have to go super deep on all of that. these, but, like, I thought in terms of actors, I thought this was a good year for George Mackay, McKay. How do we pronounce it? McKay or Mackay? I think it's Mackay. Yeah. Who was great in The Beast was great in, I think he had like three movies, but the one. Femm. Fem is the one that I haven't seen yet. And then the end, I think he's, you know, quite tremendous in that movie. And I did a 180 on George McKay.

this year. I'm saying. I'm saying. I think a lot of people didn't. I think that's ultimately, now he feels like an actor who's like, it's only a matter of time. He's going to get that role that's going to get him a nomination. I felt the same way. I mean, clearly, I think the trajectory on Jody Comer is going up, up, up, up. And I think this performance in the bike riders for as much as I, you know, will have fun with it on an accent level. Nobody, you know, she talks. Well, we do our episode on the bike riders. I think I should just do that voice. You're not going to be able to stop it. You're going to keep, like, dipping into it,

like, that entire episode. The bike riders is a movie that in two years, people are going to be like, oh, yeah, Jeff Nichols. Bike Writers is good. Yeah. Oh, I think so. Like, I don't think that movie was even hated. I think there was just, it made. And that movie made money. And that movie made money. I just feel like there was a top line enthusiasm that it just never reached. I think this was a great year for Nicholas Holt. I think the first Nicholas Holt Oscar nomination is probably within the next four or five years. I agree. And it's probably for, it's not going to be a performance

as interesting as some of his best work, but we'll be happy that it happens. But between the order and juror number two and then Nosferatu, I think he's great in all of those movies. And I think just in general, he's reaching a point of critical mass where like I feel like now more people know his name and more people are like,

at the very least, know his face. And I just feel like he is going to be an Oscar nominee within the next few years. Obviously, the Glenn Powell ascendancy is, you know, in full effect. I think the only thing that can derail him from getting an Oscar nomination within the next few years is if he just decides to make, you know, lucrative big dumb movies rather than like, you know, make anything with a, you know, challenging script or director, which, like, his options are fully in front of them. end up making any kind of movies he wants. But I thought his performance in Hitman was the kind of thing where you're just like, this is a, what we used to, you know, call a movie star. And now we don't have movie stars, which is too bad.

Didn't anyone but you make $100 million or something crazy like that? Am I, like, way overblowing that movie's box office tally? I don't think you, who, you know. know what? Sometimes I remember a movie's box office, and then I can't remember whether I remember it positively or negatively. That movie stuck around through Valentine's Day. Not a hundred million. It made 88 million, but that's... For a movie that everybody agreed was bad, that's not bad. For a movie that, like, was a disappointment at that Christmas and then stuck... Like, that movie, Greatest Showman. Like, not too Greatest Showman numbers, but, like,

greatest showman. On a filmmaker level, I do feel like Annie Baker took a step forward. forward with Janet Planet, certainly. I think Anna Kendrick surprised a lot of people with Women of the Hour, and I think people are going to have much, will be anticipatory of the next movie she directs because of that. But ultimately, my choice here, after all of those runners up, is I saw the TV glow. I think Jane Schoenbrun's next movie is going to have a ton of attention. Now, Jane could absolutely, you know, it's their choice what kind of movie they want to make next. You know what I mean? I think they have a lot of directions that they could go. And I think any of them are valid. If they want to just burrow down further into something, you know, esoteric like I saw the TV glow, fully an option. If they want to go for something that's maybe, you know, a level more accessible. and sort of moves in a little bit of that direction.

I think if that's the case, then we could see their first Oscar nomination around the corner. And I love that optimism. I don't think they make movies that are really interested in that type of thing. But, I mean, I think one of the most exciting new filmmakers we have. I do feel like, though, that maybe it is optimism. But I feel like the more movies like I saw the TV glow that we get, and I know there are no movies like I saw the TV glow. but, like, in a more universal sense.

Movies that have their own, that are playing by their own rulebook, that are less beholden to these are the story beats that we use in movies. And there's a gravitational pull at work where it does pull the mainstream of, or at least the mainstream of Oscar voters, you know what I mean? The mainstream of Hollywood types, a little bit closer to the ground that Jane Schoenbrun is on. Maybe not a lot closer. But I think there was, you would definitely had certainly more people than checked out, we're all going to the World's Fair, which I also think is an incredible movie.

And I do feel like you see even a progression of accessibility from We're All Going to the World's Fair to I saw the TV glow. You know what I mean? Even if it's incremental. But I think the success of that movie on an indie level, the success of that movie on a critical level, I think does do a little bit of the work of pulling the culture a little bit of, bit closer to the ground that Jane stands on. And I think there's a meeting in the middle that could happen, maybe not on their next feature, but on maybe like two features from now. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and I think that could happen without Jane sacrificing

what they value and what their, you know, what their voice is. So that's exciting to me. I mean, I agree with all of that. Where do you come down on your? tuches. Okay, so my resume builders, two that we mentioned already, the movies I selected because I was thinking more movie than individual, though I think

you have established that we can define things however we want to in this episode. And we've established that we're going to define them differently. We cannot be contained. We are a multiplicity. The bike ride, I picked movies for like multiple reasons that I saw as resume builders for multiple people

the bike riders we mentioned we talked about I want to say a little bit more about Janet Planet because that's my runner-up not only for Annie Baker but Julianne Nicholson I think Julianne Nicholson maybe in my love of performances by Marianne John Baptiste and Fernando Torres I also did do enough

zero question I think it's one of the performances of the year, I think a Julianne Nicholson acting nomination is, if she was, like, you mentioned it for Nicholas Holt. If she was someone working as much as Nicholas Holt does, I would be like, yes, in the next five years. I just think that she's incredible. Janet Planet, great movie, movie that I saw for the first time, like, as I was still jet-lagged, So it took a minute for that movie to really sit with me.

Yeah. And then my winner actually is queer. Okay. In what way? For both Luca and Daniel Craig, I think the next time Daniel Craig is in the awards conversation, it will not be forgotten that he did not land the Oscar nomination for this movie. You're not wrong. And while a lot of us were skeptical that he. would get this nomination because

the reception around the movie I do think that it is a stepping stone towards him being nominated probably more than any of the James Bond stuff is a stepping stone to getting him nominated as this movie ultimately proved

And it is a stepping stone for Luca it really is I don't know I understand what you're saying there I think Luca's trajectory is just not a straight line right, where I think it's like, I am love going up and then bigger splash coming down a bit and then call me by your name going up and then Susperia and Bones and All and now the fact that like, and so like I think challengers, I think this year has been an uptick in general in terms

of like challengers and queer together showing his range and showing, you know, that he can, you know, succeed. But I still feel like the fact that he got stymied on both of those movies I just don't know where he is directionally right now. I know I am as enthused about him as a filmmaker as I've ever been, even with not loving queer. You know what I mean? I'm still enthused to the Hiltz for Luca. And we're not done talking about Luca.

He has the Julia Roberts, Andrew Garfield movie coming out this year. That's right. Maybe it could be this year. Who knows? It's with Amazon, so it's probably not. All right. Our next category is the Dr. Louise Banks Legacy Prize for Most Surprising Miss. I shouldn't have to tell you that Dr. Louise Banks is from a rival, but you know, it's been eight years.

Good God. I feel like I always struggle with this category, and I struggle more and more every year. I'm so certain of mine this year. I can feel it in me becoming a more cynical person, and I don't like it. I actively don't like that about myself. But I feel like less and less I'm surprised by nothing. Okay. Well, but I do.

I had some some picks here. Okay. Am I first or are you first? You're first. Briefly, I would say my runner-up is baby girl for reasons we've talked about. Just kind of surprised that that didn't take hold. Yeah. I guess that's also a good resume builder for Harris Dickinson.

Yes. I think it's, I think it is. But I guess my winner here, I'm going to give it to the. piano lesson, mostly because I'm just surprised the degree to which it feels like Netflix very quickly took their foot off the gas with that movie. Yes. I think by the time it hit the platform, they'd already kind of given up on it in a way that I'm surprised by. I think of the August Wilson movies, I found it to be maybe the strongest. Yeah. Yes. I think I agree with that. I like Fences a lot, but I think I was more interested in the piano lesson.

Well, I mean, Fences, I think, is probably Denzel Washington's best performance, but, and like, Fences is the big one. You know, they start the August Wilson movies with that one, and you can understand why. That's one of his best plays. Piano lesson, though, I, you know, it came down to Danielle Deadweiler, and I kind of feel like the reason that she didn't get nominated is that. because they took their gas off the movie as a whole and never really boosted that movie as a whole and the things that were strong about that movie. I mean, maybe my favorite performance in the movie, though Danielle Deadweiler is great, is Ray Fisher.

I thought Ray Fisher was so good in that movie. And things like production design are really incredible and very specific in that movie. It is, I suppose, a weird story because it kind of. of it kind of hovers over multiple genres in a way that I think, especially as a piece of adaptation, it deserves some credit because, you know, obviously August Wilson's a genius and is able to achieve that on the stage. But adapting that into a movie isn't just like, well, you do what's on the stage, you know. Pardon me. I talked to some people who had seen stage versions of it and did not like as much the choices that were made in adapting. I've never seen a stage production of the piano lesson, so nothing was jarring to me.

I liked the sort of horror elements of it that were brought into this a little bit. I liked... And there's like room to play with genre, too, that most recent. Broadway revival. A lot of people said leaned way more into the comedy of it in a way that people I saw did not like that. Yeah. Interesting. I think also in terms of the Netflix of it all, I think there has been a strategic shift in them in recent years to zero in on one movie. Remember how like for a while there, they were getting two Best Picture nominees. on the regular, and I think starting with the power of the dog year, I don't think 2021, they had

multiple, no, 2021 was don't look up and power of the dog. It was starting at 2022, where they only had All Quiet on the Western Front, and it seemed for a second like they weren't going to have anything until All Quiet on the Western Front emerged. But, like, piano lesson was maybe their fourth priority? Sure. But I guess, what I'm saying is aside from Amelia Perez, I don't know if there was a second priority, or at least like a strongly defined. I think Maria was the second priority. And then Will and Harper was the third. But they were so distant down the priority list, I think is maybe the point I make. Do you know what I mean? That like, sure, there was a second priority, but like there wasn't anything that was getting any kind of level of like the second priority that don't look up got in 2021. You know what I mean? And see, the thing is about the piano lesson, I think by deep. prioritizing that movie, they left more nominations on

the table. Like, Maria got one that it might have still gotten, and piano lesson, like, maybe three or four nominations, you know? Maybe not best picture, because people weren't enthusiastic about it, but like... Deadweiler, adaptation, screenplay,

art direction, like, production design is, I definitely would have put it. Sound, I think if we were willing to, you know, experience sound in a way that isn't just musicals or, you know, a big giant spectacles. You look at the best sound nominees. And this is, and I wonder if this, you know, tracks from when they reduced it from two categories to one. But this year, it is three, it is two outright musicals, two movies

that have, like, music heavily integrated into them. I think Wild Robot counts into that, certainly, but certainly a complete unknown. And then do part-to... Yeah, never doubt musicals and musical biopics with the sound branch, man. I'm saying, I've been saying this, and people are like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, well, look at this year. Whenever I'm sort of asked to do, like, full ballot nominations for something, and of course, like, I am not somebody who knows the intricacies of sound or cinematography or

production design or whatever. So, like, I am making my own sort of, like, judgments on those. but I always tend to look for movies. I'm very, very friendly towards horror movies and best sound because horror movies tend to use, you know, sound from all across the sort of soundscape to contribute to the mood of things to sort of the dread of things. You have, you know, distant voices and creepy noises and whatever, and I think the piano lesson is a great example of a movie that I would almost certainly have nominated. and best sound because of that. What did you choose here? I kind of, true to our custom, I think I defined it a little bit differently, and I went with,

what were the movies that on Oscar nomination morning, I was like, I can't believe that didn't get anything. And for me, number one, well, my runner up is. I would like to choose one of those. It's just, I'm so cynical. I understand. My runner up was kneecap because it really felt like the trajectory of that movie was going up, up, up, up in those last couple weeks.

It felt like a lot of people were seeing it within that voting window and... It stands out. It's very different from the other movies that were shortlisted. I really thought it was, we were on the way to multiple nominations. I thought it was going to get a song nomination and international feature.

That's a good call. And I'm surprised, I literally almost watched it the night before nominations because I was like, I want to like knock this out and get out ahead of this. And now I didn't. And now I'm like, well, now it to, like, get deprioritized beyond all the other Oscar movies so that I can write my list. But I want to make sure that I still get to it because I'm, you know, very interested to see it now. My winner, though, in this category is all we imagine is light, which I'm still shocked got nothing,

because it really felt like the ceiling on it was so high. I really did think that we were going to get a lone director this year, and it was going to either be Ramel Ross or Paial Capadia, ultimately. Ramel Ross gets the picture nomination instead. But Paial Capadia, like, this is a movie. It wins the Grand Prix at Cannes, and then goes through award season, sweeps all the major critics awards for Best International Feature, except for NBR, but NBR, it still ends up on their top five international features, gets a Golden Globe nomination for Best Director.

Like, it just felt like it was, and we've talked about the reasons why, the fact that it was, you know, shut out as India's submission for international feature, which then gave it a little bit more of an impetus to get nominated elsewhere. I would believe that it was like on the cut line for a lot of categories, right? For director, for, you know. I do think it was maybe a mistake in the campaign to put all the chips in director because they could have gotten that original screenplay nomination. I think. It's possible. Well, and that's the other thing is where it was winning all of those categories, other places, was international feature. And that's the one place that couldn't get nominated here at the Oscars.

So I understand that, like, the chances were a little bit harder. But it just did feel like that was one of those sort of, like, universally accepted as one of the most awarded movies. If you made, like, a top 10 of, like, movies that got, like, the most recognition, I think that would definitely be on there. And Janus did write by that movie, you know. It's not like we were just complaining about Netflix, like, stacking priorities. You know, Janice got those two nominations for Flow, but I don't think at the expense of all we imagine. Janice has been doing well. We should tip the cap to Janus for certainly for, remember where we were at before Drive My Car, where we were like, all the critics love it.

But like, do we really trust Janice to, like, run a Best Picture campaign for a movie? And like, they turned it out. They did. And they very well could again. Yeah. I think, I think this, this season just kind of locked down early enough, and I think it was a season that was not director, movies directorally week. I, I, I'd kind of been skeptical about it, but I'd also been someone who was really early on the, like, the substances going all the way in terms of nominations. Yeah. Yeah.

And you were, take your victory lap on that because you were out there in a way that a lot of other people maybe wanted to be out there, but were a little bit more trepidacious. So good for you. But, you know, I think all of the people who eventually showed up in the director lineup, like there was a case kind of all along for all of those people. I don't think director was that easy to break into this year. I would kill to see the totals, the vote totals for best director this year and to see what the order was throughout that top 10. because I bet we'd see some surprising things. And I think people are assuming that Coralie Farzha was fifth place, and I don't think she was. Not necessarily. No, I certainly, I think Mangold is probably more likely fifth place than Coralie Farzha at this point. What's our next category? The Deborah Carr in the Innocence Award for sometimes they don't even give you the honor of being nominated. This one is a new category.

I put this one in here because I wanted. a place to collect the, we kind of assume sometimes going in with a lot of these oft-nominated people that, like, well, they'll get nominated for this one. Are they going to win for it? And then sometimes they don't even get nominated. Obviously, I think there's a finite number here, but maybe I'll leave the Amy of it all to you and I'll mention both the out. You don't know me. You can't just read my mind. If you don't mention it, then I'll come around after the fact and I'll clean it. I'm going to mention both the Outrun and Blitz. I think there was a lot of buzz on Sersha this year to get another nomination. I think there was a maybe slim moment in time where it felt like that the Outrun had the

possibility to sort of be an indie standout this year and that Sersha could possibly win for the Outrun. I do think she's quite good in that movie, but that movie was allergic to making money this year, even on an indie level. It took forever. They really had to muscle out. It didn't get good enough reviews. They had to muscle out a million.

It didn't get good reviews. And also, it's a real hard sell to just be like, look at this one still of a bleak, gray sky with Sertius sort of like standing against it looking glum. And it's just like. She's great in the movie. She's great in the movie. Like, that is not a question. And I even think the movie is pretty good. I don't think it's like this piece of shit movie or anything like that.

I don't think it's a piece of shit. I don't think that there's much. it's totally one of those pieces of adaptation where you're like on the page this language is beautiful and it just doesn't make for a movie to me it's like I've seen this story so many times before

I really need a lot more to make it stand out and I will always show up for this movie actress alone dealing with her problems yes I will watch that movie and then she's also then so the outrun sort of does not click it took like weeks and weeks and weeks to even

get it to one million. Doesn't really make waves at Sundance or Berlin when it premieres, takes forever to get a distributor. Yeah. So once then people kind of gave up the ghost a little bit on the outrun. Then Blitz comes along and people are like, uh, supporting actress Blitz, maybe, who could, and then again, she's good in Blitz. I think Blitz is a really interesting movie that I don't know if it entirely works, but I appreciate the swing. I think Steve McQueen really dedicates himself in that movie to being like, I'm going to make a movie about the London Blitz, and I am going to, you know, remind you again and again and again that it's not just white English people who, you know, suffered during this, that there was, you know, there was a lot of communities of

people of color and people who, you know, immigrants and whatnot in this, and women. Children. Children. Like, that's the thing. It's just like it was not just. Because, like, in World War II movies, like, children are a monolith, you know, we don't ever, like... You get your cursory scene of everybody huddled in the tubes, and then you go back to the flyboys and whatever. And so I...

And he sort of, he has that vision. I think the movie becomes Pinocchio for a little bit, and I don't quite understand why where all of a sudden we're with, you know... And I know that part of Pinocchio is based on, like, is a Dickensian sort of thing. So it's... He's doing Dickens. But it did make me feel like, oh, we're here with the, you know, the cat with the top hat and Pinocchio or whatever. What I thought the struggle with was with Blitz because it's a movie I wanted to like more than I ultimately did. Though I think it's, I'm net positive on Blitz.

Yeah, I think that's where I'm. I keep saying I'm net positive on things, and it sounds so withering. Please welcome to the stage, net positive. I think McQueen, who I love and I will continue. to ride for he's been in this really expansive place with his work you know he did small acts which is the series of movies that is all of a piece and he did occupied city this incredibly sprawling um documentary not just in its length but in the scope of what it's you know looking at and blitz is really struggling to like hit that two hour mark

You know, it's a very overstuffed movie that, like, all of these different things are interesting on their own, but because none of it is really the focus of the movie, it feels really scattered. And, like, it's hard to, like, though I think it's clear what the emotional core of the movie is trying to be, it's hard to connect to that core because there's too much, too much for one movie. I agree with that. I agree with that. I think he's struggling to downsize again after doing these, like, big, huge projects. Ultimately, I'm glad that Sersha isn't getting these sort of afterthought, like, just stat patting nominations, you know what I mean? That I do feel like maybe the next time she gets nominated, it's really going to like, you know, she'll really have a shot to win. And, you know, she's incredibly young.

She's incredibly, you know, she's still fighting at the top of her. game so um my new favorite married couple too her and jack oh when jack when when an Oscar nomination happens for Jack Loudon I am going to be a nightmare though I am gonna be annoying that's I am going to be his and hers so exciting nominations one of these years let's make it happen um all right we should do benediction soon who's your choice for the deboricaar award because I think I you know you've had to throw debor car in there and I'm like actresses Actresses, actresses. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's what got you thinking of actresses. Before then, you were like, who? I don't understand. What's that word? I also had Baby Girl as a runner up here. We've discussed Baby Girl enough. I also thought of the end because it's like, well, they didn't even fucking nominate it for a song. It didn't even get shortlisted for song.

It's like really screwing that movie over. But no, I'll accept the layup. The answer here is Nightbitch. Night bitch is like, I know. Nightbitch is not like at the level of Mariel Heller's usual work. I don't think it's ultimately bad.

I have very specific qualms with the movie, but... I would like to see it again at some point and see if I re-evaluated it all. Nightbitch would have been a weird pick for like deserved better, but like that movie really did kind of get screwed over.

It's it. Like, searchlight kept it in this no man's land where they almost take it to festivals last year, but they don't because of the strikes. So it's like we don't know what's going on with that movie for a while. We hear that it's good, not great for a while. And then it shows up in the fall festivals, and it seems like a really prominent premiere.

Yeah. Or we should say Toronto. It shows up in Toronto. And it's like, okay, search, Light has this as a priority. It's one of their movies. And then it effectively is treated like it's always been a Hulu movie. Yeah. It was originally developed for Hulu during the pandemic, much like other movies that eventually have did get, they were treated like a theatrical movie. Yeah. And what's the, what's the example of that that I'm for? Oh, all of us strangers. All of a

Strangers was originally supposed to just be for Hulu. Yes. And like that was not a Hulu movie. Yeah. And, but they release it in theaters very unceremoniously and, like, without any promotion, basically. And it, like, they don't release box office numbers. It has about a week run in theaters for a week. And then it's on Hulu a week later or something, two weeks later, something. And it's like, oh, they. did just make this a Hulu movie. Yes.

And it's a better movie that, like, it would have been better if it had been very clearly a Hulu movie and they put an effort behind it to get people to watch on streaming. But they didn't even promote the streaming release. For a movie, like... I feel so bad for Ariel Heller. I feel incredibly bad for Mario Heller. But, like, you know how we talk about how we preemptively cringe when certain

movies that we like or even, you know, just sort of watched so we know what's coming when they show up on streaming and we're like, they're going to be so many dumb-dums who are going to be clipping shit out of context and sort of, you know, talking about the movie without having actually watched it. Obviously, Amelia Perez was the big example this year of we were so dreading when that movie hit streaming because like, oh my God, so many people are just going to be just like clipping without actually watching the movie. I would have been worried about that. with Nightbitch, but it turns out no need, because nobody actually even

watched it enough to do that. Do people even know it's on Hulu right now? Probably not. If you ask the average person, I would say probably not. Yeah. Like, people who know about Fowlo movies, do they even know that? And one of the things, one of the side effects of that is is that it's been able to sort of preserve

its reputation among, like, this is not a movie that like the critics really agree on. I think there's a wide swath of opinion on Nightbitch. Yeah. But I think the people who feel like there is something of value in there and that there is something, you know, really, you know, good and kind of daring in that movie and that performance have been able to sort of maintain that without like, you know, the general population getting their grubby little paws on it or whatever. RIP, Joan Plow, right? Because another film that Amy Adams has got some grubby little hands on.

I think I also just think like that movie didn't have to be an award season movie Well that was what I wrote about in the spring it would have actually made money because there is an audience for this movie and like it's an audience that clearly Not even search light but Disney who owns them and pays their light bill An audience that clearly Disney doesn't give a fuck about and like because when I left night bitch when I was at that premiere I was like oh there's an absolute audience for this word we were adamant these women will watch this movie and go see this movie and like it'll be good that that audience has something that is speaking to them and they you know it's not the audience the audience is not the problem here for this movie it it is not the

audience's fault that this movie I think I'm a little less certain of that than you are but like I'm not questioning, I know better than to question you on this, because I think you maybe have a better finger on that pulse than I do. I have a strong opinion about like suburban women want to fucking go to the movies. I feel like you are. They deserve movies that are speaking to them. I feel like you have like an orb in your, in your house somewhere where you can put your hand on it and you're like, I get the vibe of the suburban women. I understand where they're going. I understand where they're thinking.

and yeah like I don't think that like that audience should be I hope I am not condescending to that audience I don't think you are I don't think that they should be condescended no I don't think you are but I think that those are people who go to the movies like they do and whatever you know again the audience is not the problem here with night bitch and like I don't think it's a perfect movie but I think you release it in the spring an audience shows up to that movie and And it hits the bar that the movie is trying to clear. But putting it in the award season, half in award season. I know, and half out, yeah.

Our next category is another new one. It's the I Can't See Your Halo Award, which is when we kind of expect a Halo nomination, but it doesn't happen. We talked a little bit about this when we talked about The Last Showgirl and Jamie Lee Curtis. Chris, I went first on last one. You can go first on this one. Okay. Well, I guess the runner-up is the last showgirl, kind of. I couldn't really think of another one.

But my winner is small things like these. Killian Murphy is as good as he is in Oppenheimer in that movie. And, like, Lion's Game is the distributor. I think he, I think it's generally maybe even a little bit better of a performance, I think. A strong movie that, like, this is the one where I feel like, well, maybe I didn't even do enough for this movie. It was a really small release It was a very... Lionsgate just doesn't give a fuck about their...

They don't push their movies unless it's like appealing to bloodthirsty dads, you know? Yeah. If they're not Meat and Potato's Red State movies, like, what is Lionsgate doing? I realize I'm lumping John Wick into that because I haven't seen a John Wick movie. Yeah. It's also...

I don't know what's going on over there at Lionsgate. None of my business, maybe, but they should have done more for this movie. because it's like he just won best actor and he's still you know at that bar of quality he just won best actor all of the netflix see folks all the people who you know watch peeky blinders or whatever like you have a moment here with killian murphy just like strike that iron baby i know that like and it's a it's a really good movie it's a really good movie it is about a heavy subject matter which is another movie about the magdalen laundries in uh in ireland at the

time and um it's but don't be don't go into it thinking this is going to be some like impossible to watch sort of like harrowing you know torturous like it is about entry into that story is also not quite the way you expect it to be it's yes it's not suffering porn it's a it's a movie about moral choices and it is a movie kind of i mean you talk about movies that are applicable to our time um small things like these not not that you know what i mean it is a movie about what you do when the your neighbors are uh something bad is happening down the road you know what i mean something bad is happening down the road and you can ignore it but you know something systemic something social a social

judgment being passed on vulnerable people and what what does it take for you to feel like you have to, you know, then do something. And it's a really very good movie, an incredible performance. I had, that was also my winner for this category. I had a runner-up. I know that Jorgos Lantamos didn't technically win anything for poor things, but I think there was a halo around poor things that kinds of kindness maybe, you know, might have been able to draft off of.

Were it not a more decidedly offbeat movie than it was? And in my opinion, better in every way than poor things. I don't agree with you, but you know what? I like that we have a diversity of opinion on this podcast. I, I enjoy, what's the right word for what I felt about kinds of kindness? You liked it more than most people. That is true. I did. If not as much as I do. I did. I did not dislike this movie, which sounds like faint praise. It's a movie that in that sort of lends itself to, you know, I liked this part, but less so than this part. You know what I mean? Because it's something of an anthology.

But I did feel, and again, you know, Emma Stone did just win best actress. So there is an actual, you know, Halo effect there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesse Plymins also wins that prize at can. So you're like, is there something? And then I think once that movie hit theaters, I think people were like, and that's the end of that chapter. We don't have to talk about kinds of kindness anymore. Well, I mean, it feels like he pulled one over on Disney slash searchlight in getting them to release that movie.

That movie in particular, especially as there's maybe, I'm very skeptical that they made money off of poor things, because that movie is expensive, was expensive. Yes, yes, that's true. That's true. Maybe it broke even eventually, especially overseas. I love kinds of kindness. I will continue to love kinds of kindness. What do we think of the Jorgos coming? Is it coming this year? This year.

Focus features. What's it called again? Some awful sounding thing? As of right now, it's called Bogonia. Yeah. It wasn't that long ago. It's a biopic of that top chef international character. No, it's a remake.

I haven't seen the original movie. I'm sure it'll be exactly much. We all know, even though nothing has been made official, but we all know that Emma Stone shaped her head for the movie. movie. Yes. What to be done. What to be done about the Yorgos Lanthamos Emma Stone. Are we, are we now because of those rumors from a couple years ago feeling a little bit less psyched about that continued pairing? Are we maybe hoping that they like start to make movies with other people soon? Um, I don't know. I love a director-actor pairing. Um, I don't know. I love a director-actor pairing. Um, I

I don't quite think that those rumors are, whatever. I don't know if I believe them. I don't know if I believe them. I don't know if I believe them to the extent that some people were like, this is a thing. And I'm like, you know, people are, people are open and loosey-goosey. You know what? If that's the way we're going to go.

It's maybe not a thing in the way that people think it's a thing. This is how I feel. This is how I feel. Yep. Let people have the arrangements that they want to have. quit throwing your hang-ups into other people's marriages. The other thing is straight people have these kind of arrangements way more than they are willing to admit openly. Like, this is not just a gay guy thing, like, anyway.

Talk to gay guys. Gay guys are very, very proud of their thing, and you will not allow them, you not allow straight people. This is why gay guys shouldn't be as like, I'm special about it, because like, plenty of straight people have arrangements. From our cold dead hands, says the community, We are the cool ones.

We are the ones who get to have open relationships. Not you. Anyway. This has been the rumors, rumors, rumors, rumors, rumors, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. Speaking of movies that we forgot to put on our list, rumors, which definitely did at some point have a bleaker street film. A little bit of buzz.

I just saw it recently. Didn't like that movie. Yeah. I had a fun time. I had a good enough time. I still ultimately got to the end of it. And I'm like, so what was that? What was that?

Who was that for? Anyway, if the gay community knew that there was a movie where Alicia V.kander doesn't speak, I think they would have been a lot more mean about that. Yeah. Who are your, I can't see your halos? Oh, I said small things like the... Oh, right. Yes, we both had the same one. Okay. You get to describe the next one.

All right. Next category is our sore winner prize for happiest miss. the movie we are happiest to gloat did not get a nominator. This one dovetails so much more for me in the crisis averted category that like my answers are kind of the same for those

is like it's both last showgirl and Moana two are up there but I will then I will indulge in the one that actually makes me look like a sore winner which ultimately is queer. I think once I heard that rumor that Luca Guadino

did not want a campaign for challenge and only wanted a campaign for queer. Yeah, you were like, well, that's fucking that movie. I was like, I am going into battle. I rolled up my sleeves. I was like... Listener, Joe just literally rolled up his sleeve. I was ready to go.

I was like, listen, first of all, second of all, third of all. Every single time that Challenger's got more precursors at a thing than queer did, I was like, well, what do we have here? The clearly better, you know, horse to have backed in awards race. So one, the fact that queer ultimately got paid dust, which again, I don't even hate that movie. I just did not connect with that movie. I did feel like Daniel Craig's performance wasn't good. But like in general, I just thought I was a little bit more just nonplussed by that movie and was a little bit out to see.

I liked quite a few elements of it, particularly Jason Schwartzman doing a Stanley Tooch impersonation. But, um... I was smug. I was smug about queer kind of crashing and burning an award season, and it does not make me look good. And if I have to cop to that right now, then I will. I will say queer did better both financially and in the award season than I thought it would as I was walking out of that theater. I was like, well, this is just, this is going to be Susperia part two. And it wasn't. It did better than Susperia. It did. I liked Susperia. a yons more than I like queer. As did I, but I do like queer quite a bit. What is your choice for, what are you the source?

Oh, you didn't have any others you wanted to call? No, that's just those. Okay, my runners-up were... I love the subtle shade of their... Oh, you didn't have 17 movies that you wanted to mention there. No, no, no, no, no, I mean, we are coming to the end of our categories, and we've talked about a lot of movies. We have.

So, my runners-up are heretic, sorry. Did not like that movie. Did not think Hugh Grant was doing anything that he had an art. already done before. Sure. I kind of really, really hated that script. My other runner-up, all good respect to the good people at A-24, we live in time, a movie that I was so happy that we had romances with appealing stars back in theaters.

And the more distance I got from that movie and thought about that. movie and what it's doing, I hated it more. I've still never seen it. I think that's kind of a nasty little movie. We need romances. We need romances with appealing stars, period. Would love to see those two stars in a different movie. I think that movie is miserablest in a way that is not helpful.

More or less miserable than memoir of a snail. Famously the movie I called the A Little Life of Stop Motion Animation. I think especially when we're talking about women's bodies and women's health, I'm a little surprised that that movie didn't get more eviscerated than it did. I think I don't know. I mean, it's just one movie. It's just one character. what it puts Florence Pugh's character through in that movie

and the decisions it asks her to make I have qualms with. It's a big reason why I still haven't seen it is just that it's not the fact that I definitely think I'm going to hate it or anything. And I certainly love Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh. And I loved Brooklyn, you know what I mean? So, but I just don't. And I'm trying not to be too touchy about it because of

what, you know, our country has kind of gone through and what I've personally gone through. And it's, I just think it's kind of a, a movie that's not thinking with seriousness about what it's putting that character through and what it might represent. I just have a hard time when I, when it comes down to me making the decision to watch a movie for the evening, I have yet to find myself in the mood for what I imagine we live in time has in store for me. And the romance stuff isn't really all that great and special. It really does make me feel bleak that I'm like, well, at least we have a romance. At least we have an option at the multiplex for romances. And I was glad to see that A24 was like, people need romances. Let's put

this in a wide release, blah, blah, blah, blah, even if I'm negative on the movie. My winner for this category, which I feel like I didn't really do any gloating at this movie's failure, so I'll just, I'll just take it up now. Fuck black to fuck back to black. Fuck that movie, even though it has people involved that I love

and will continue to support. I think digging below the surface of that movie's existence, even an Iota is like I'm not support. I will remain an Amy Winehouse super fan. So as somebody

who hasn't seen that movie, And as somebody who has an appreciation for Amy Winehouse, but, like, never have listened to an Amy Winehouse album entirely. You know what I mean? I know the hits. Sure. So I have less of an emotional attachment. What is the objection here?

Is the objection here that her life is not appropriate for fodder for this movie? Is it that her family are trying to launder their reputations? Is it that part? Yes. Okay. It's that part. It's also just, like, we're... I think we're in a dire state of musical biopics.

I think a complete unknown is the best one for a while, even though I'm still pretty mild on that movie. And I think they strategically structured that movie against a lot of the expectations of musical biopics because they wanted to get away from a lot of the problems of it. And I think... And I think they tried to dodge some of that by not putting it in an award season, didn't stop it from showing up on those BAFTA long lists. Oh, back to black. Is Marisa Albaella One of their rising star nominees? Maybe.

I forget. Yeah, I just I am out period on musical biopics, but I also just think there is a certain degree of exploitation happening with that movie in particular. I never saw it, but I'm not like, I'm not one of those people like, I'm not seeing that movie in principle, but like I fully did not see that movie on principle.

Right. Um, that's fair. That's fair. All right. The final prize that we are going to give out is the Nope Memorial Prize for the first class of 2024 episode that we anticipate doing. Um, I have two options and two alone, but I want you to go first. Um, I guess my second runner up is night bitch. I mean, sure. There's so much there that like I've already gone into. Um, But, like, that's a perfect future episode. I mean, we have kind of more than ever decided on what the answer is to this. I said it, like, within moments of the nominations. Yeah. And then I yes-handed you immediately. And we'll say what that is in a minute.

My runner-up in any other year would be the number one with a bullet answer, and that's Joker Fully a do. Okay. Which we haven't mentioned until now. It was on my list to mention after the awards, but yes, I'm glad that you did. The absolute dead certainty. I finally watched it, did I tell you? I watched it a week or two ago. It's what everybody says it is it's so intentionally lifeless and dull and no interesting ideas.

And it's the opposite of the unafraid to reference or not reference thing that lady guys says. It's like all the, like, it's just like there's, you know, there's nothing. I think it thinks it's doing what everybody says it's trying to do. But I think it's also thinks it's doing something else and it's not doing that thing. Much as I don't want to put you through the experience of watching that movie again, I do think that we assent, we, it's absolutely essential that we do this. I don't know about first. I think without question it's better than the first Joker movie and I think if the first Joker movie was a better movie

what this movie is trying to pull off would have worked and I much as I want to be one of those actually Joker Folly Adieu is good people I can't I can't quite get there and that's because this movie does not work in what it's trying to do if the first movie isn't good and the first movie is an abomination. I still think the first movie has at least more life in it than the second one, which makes it sort of de facto better than the second one,

but like I don't care for either one of those movies, and I would like them both to go away. And they wasted teachers valuable time, teacher being Lady Gaga in this respect. Like, don't do that. You're calling her teacher now? Are people calling her teacher? That's that line from The Simpsons. That's for wasting teachers valuable time. I thought that this was like you were calling her Vanguard or something, like she's our cult leader. No, as with everything that I say that makes sense of it. Listen, we do have a new Gaga album coming soon and I will say disease is her best single. I do like disease quite much. Maybe since Fame Monster. I don't like this thing where we release the single like eight months before the

album. Like Jesus Christ. Like hold on, hold that thing. I know we don't like me. Also, she released that single at the exactly wrong moment. If she released that single now, we'd be ready to party. Like, I genuinely were like, what is what is the disease? Oh, right, we still haven't gotten that album. Like, good. Just God's sake. And Gaga's good in the movie.

She has very little to do, but I think she's maybe the most thing about it. She's good within these very, very tight parameters of nothing interesting to do. Do we think that the idea was that Folli A Do would have been a hit and then they would have released the album to draft off of that and they have waited longer because to get it away from

the stink of that movie? No, because she released that album that's essentially her being like, oh, these songs that I don't do so well in Joker Folli-Doo, by the way, I can sing them well. Her I'm Breathless album. Yes. Oh, my God. I didn't even think of that. It is an I'm breathless.

The Harlequin album is an I'm Breathless because there is a Joker Folli-A-Doo soundtrack, which is different than, is it Harlequin? What's the name of that album? I think maybe, yes. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, my runner- And then I'm not going to say what my actual winner would be because we're about to talk about it. My runner-up, I think, is the only other acceptable option for first movie, and that is Megalopolis, I think, to kick off, to break the seal with Megalopolis would feel massive enough to be correct.

I still kind of... Oh, this is where we say what we said we were going to say in that all bets we made in 2020. They exist in a liminal space. We're literally wiping the slate clean because I finally have bought a whiteboard and I have it if I, well, my background is blurry, but like if I angle my computer, you can actually see it behind me. All now bets that we make on this, we are going to record on my whiteboard and we will have them in, you know, we will also keep them, keep track of them in something that won't get accidentally erased if I drop a cloth on it. And I say this all because the only bet that I remember bringing up in the past year, and I know we did a lot of them. The only bet I remember bringing up was that Megalopolis would be a Best Picture nominee, and to which I say, I forgot about that I will still send you a gift for that petulant ass bet I made with you. Give me a $10 gift card to something, and I'll be good.

Yeah, I think the thing about Megalopolis is, once that movie happened, that conversations were, of got moved elsewhere, I don't think you and I have ever talked about megalopolis. I kind of don't know what you think about that movie. Well, some of that is the distribution issue because Lionsgate really was only on the line to just put that movie in theaters. Like they had, and after that, there has to be a campaign. Lionsgate is not contractually obligated in any way to be involved in a campaign. So essentially the awards campaign for that movie would fall on Coppola.

to self-fund and do you think at this point he's going to do that when like judging by the movie itself he doesn't care about any of that right no that's not going to happen right but like i'm interested to and i don't want to talk about it now even because like i want to maybe preserve it from when we do that episode i kind of a really good movie i was going to say i didn't even know you even thought that of it so like i'm interested it was on my top 20 well that is true But we've never, we've never had a conversation. We've never had a real conversation about it. And I'm interested to finally have conversation about it at some point.

I guess my true palm winner of all the movies that I've seen from this year's competition. No, I mean, my palm winner is, oh, no, wait, Misericardia wasn't in competition. Misericordia should have been in competition. Go see that in theaters this March, listener. I'm excited too. Oh, it's such a fuck. You're going to get out of that movie and be like, well, of course Chris loved that movie. Yeah.

Well, I like that directors, well, at least I liked, it's not top of the lake. Stranger by the lake, not top of the lake. Very different things. Kinds of kindness would probably be my palm winner, though, like. I think the substance is mine. Yeah. Anora's up there. It should have been one of those three to me.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, our winner for the first class of 2024 episode should be obvious. I said it immediately after the nominations were announced. it's going to be challengers. We, we, it must, it must be. And we've already locked Katie down to be the guest on the challenge. We have. That happened so fast. Um, we can go through like the longer list piece by piece, but the one I wanted to, I had six movies here, um, that survived the, uh, also ran list that we never actually mentioned. Um, Didi, the, uh, last year's Sundance movie, um, that I kind of thought might have low-key, um screenplay chances supporting actress chances for joan chen maybe if it had caught john chen's very good in that movie maybe if it had caught on sort of long shot like i could have seen a world in which a best picture campaign had emerged ultimately i think it sort of stayed in the

indie awards it did kind of keep showing up in the indie awards variously um but ultimately does not end up going anywhere um i know you did not care for that movie i will say i um I will eventually go back and finish this movie. It's one of those movies that I started too late. And then I'm like, I'm not going to be able to watch this without falling asleep. So I got to finish it later. When you first saw that movie and you were like, I hate kids who treat their mother this way. And I'm like, that seems like...

Just their parents that way. I'm tired of these teenager movies where they treat their parents like shit. Like, they treat their like nice, loving, affectionate parents like shit. Like, and that's supposed to be enough for a story is also part of my frustration. I admit that when I heard you, these movies are repeating themselves. I admit that when I heard you say that, I was like, that seems like a weak reason to not like a movie. And then I watched that movie and 15 minutes in, I was like, these shitty-ass kids are so mean to their parents. Yeah, they're bad kids.

They're bad kids. And D.D. at least has an additional context of it is an Asian-American household. And, like, some of that stuff is interesting and different, but I think the, like, the shitty teenager stuff is so... They're so unlikable. Yeah. Yeah, that it's so cliche in that movie that it overshadows what is unique about that movie. I'll finish it, though. I'll probably have a more nuanced opinion when I'm done with it.

But, like, my immediate reaction was like, oh, Chris was right. Chris was so right. Piece by piece, which I ended up, I think, liking a little bit more than I thought I would. the Farrell Williams' biopic with Legos. I think everybody was like, nope, with that movie. I think just, I think being able to listen to that music kind of goes a long way, where I'm just like, I'm vibing with the music. Ultimately, I think that movie, I had a good time.

I was kind of texting with Katie during it, because I know Katie's watched it a few times because their kids really like it. There is a giant hole in the middle of that movie that is incredibly obvious, which is, Pharrell does not have an interesting enough life to make a documentary about. And you can throw as many bells and whistles and Legos as you want to it. But ultimately, this is not even an interesting behind the music. Like, this would have been sort of a perfunctory behind the music. It's just ultimately not that interesting of a story.

Well, and there's also a, I haven't seen the movie, but the things I've heard kept me from seeing that movie. There's a taste level question. Like, doing a biopic with Legos sounds like a cool idea, but should we be representing the George Floyd protests with Legos? Like, is that a tasteful thing to do? That, to me, never tripped me up, although I can understand the argument about that, yes. Ultimately, I think you just sort of, like, give yourself over the concept.

I think one of the things that I thought was the biggest hindrance was, is that represented as Legos, you don't connect with the faces of the people being interviewed in this unless they're like Gwen Stefani. But like there's a level of which you can recognize various people talking about, you know, Farrell Williams. But if they're represented as Legos, I don't really know who's supposed to be, you know, all of these various people. It just makes it harder to follow. It just makes it harder because it's like I don't have the facial recognition of just like this Lego version of this person unless it's like very, very, very obvious if it's like Snoop level. Like Snoop, you understand. You're talking to Snoop.

But like kind of everybody else, I'm like, I don't know if I'm supposed to know whether this is Farrell's wife or Farrell's producer or somebody from the record label. And unless they're constantly being captioned, which they aren't always, then you really lose yourself in the. soup of all of these Legos. So I ultimately feel like it was working in cross purposes. We didn't mention Robert Zemeckis' Here, which is a movie I still haven't seen, but I know you really like. A movie I am pro on. So I definitely am looking forward to doing the Here episode because I definitely want to have you make your case for that movie. It has problems. I'm not saying it doesn't have problems, but the, the like a priority, the, the thrust of what that movie is doing.

I sobbed through that movie. I fully sobbed through that movie. Yeah. One episode I'm looking forward to doing because I really, really intensely liked about half of it was Bird, Andrea Arnold's Bird, which I have very, you know, I have opinions

about what works and what doesn't work in that movie, but I think the stuff that works, I think, is so lovely that I'm interested to talk about it because even the stuff that doesn't work for me, I'm sort of interested to give it a second crack and find out what exactly my problem was with the stuff that didn't work for me. Have you seen that movie yet? I saw it at TIF.

You did see it at Tiff. And the further I get away from it, the less I like it. I understand that. I can understand that. I appreciate someone like Andrea Arnold taking a swing, doing a creative leap that, you know, they as a filmmaker, someone who does that. And she, I think, still got talked about in this movie, like she's doing the same old thing. think she's taking some real crucial leaps with that movie that I appreciate, even if I don't think it works.

I think the risks are the parts that don't quite work for me and the stuff that feels like, quote unquote, same old really does work for me. And the stuff that was same old for me, I was like, oh, I don't know. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it when we do that episode. Yeah. I wrote down Mufasa the Lion King, which is another one. I almost put that in like most surprising miss because, like, I really,

It was shocked that it didn't show up somewhere, especially because Oscar voters historically really like these Disney quote unquote live action remakes. And the fact that like, not always, but in jet, but like more often than not, like they nominated like Jungle Book and stuff like that. You know, they nominated Cinderella. Didn't they nominate the Lion King too? Yeah. They nominated a lot of these. Little Mermaid broke that streak, but I feel like, you know. less said about...

Aladdin, too. I don't think Aladdin got nominated for anything. Well, anyway, I was... Christ, remember live-action Aladdin. I don't. I still have never seen it. I was surprised that Lin-Manuel Miranda did not get a song nomination. Again, haven't seen Mufasa yet. I think once NASCAR nominations happened, and it turned out I didn't have to go back and see Moana too or Mufasa, I did kind of do a little, like, you know, got away with one there.

again, I will see these movies eventually, just having to make a plan to see something in the theater because, you know, you got to get it done soon. I'm just like, I'd much rather be able to, you know, play cleanup on the shorts or whatever than have to go see Mufasa. The last one on here, I am interested in our eventual episode on Horizon and American Saga Chapter 1. I liked more of that movie than I thought I would. If you're listening, yes, you can absolutely come on that episode. No, because then Mitchell would disown us forever, because Mitchell's love for that movie. I haven't seen it. I don't know if I don't like that movie. Mitchell's love for that movie is pure and true, and I liked more of that movie than I thought I would, but I would still end up just cracking a lot of jokes in that episode. And I don't want to, I don't want to shit on anybody's enjoyment of that movie. But I do feel like a lot of that movie is ridiculous and

interested to see what you would make of it, and that would be fun. What else did you want to mention that we haven't mentioned? Let's just go through this full list. Okay, right at the top, Bob Marley One Love, I think, is

really interesting in terms of why not that movie? I think Paramount Yeah, that was a successful. De debated qualifying that movie or doing a limited Christmas release last year, yeah. The previous year

because that movie made almost a hundred million dollars and I think we would be having more conversations about that movie if it wasn't a January release this year or if they had done a limited run the previous year.

I mean, Kingsley Benedere I think was BAFTA long-listed. Yeah. That's maybe a stepping stone movie. But it's again, one of those things that I think when you are a movie whose release blurs the previous year, even if you did not get a qualifying release, you know what I mean? I think there's still a blurriness of the fact of like, weren't people talking about you last December? Aren't you old news? Like, you just sort of people wipe their slates clean at some point in like March. You know what I mean? Like once the Oscars are done, people wipe those slates clean for the most part, unless you are a Dune part too. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah.

Which is true of a lot of other movies like Wicked Little Letters. I think if Wicked Little Letters came out 20 years ago, it would be an Oscar nominee. There is a certain things of like times change and the idea of Buzz takes forever to catch up. Like Wicked Little Letters today is never getting an Oscar nomination. Yeah. But especially from like a Sony classics, it, you know, has that patina of, of something that could potentially because that's like tastes of past years. We love a patina, yes.

Evil does not exist is another interesting conversation around international feature because it was never going to be the Japanese submission. Right. But I think absent a case like all we imagine is light, you could have seen critics groups going for that movie. My local critics group did name it the international or foreign language film in the year. I have a question. Yes.

Does evil exist? The movie maybe also has that question. Great movie. The Dead Don't It hurts. There's certainly more movies in here. The Dead Don't Hurt Tuesday, where it's like they tried it. Tuesday, which, first of all, I hate talking about screeners. Just talk about the fucking movie.

like, stop saying my screener, my screener, my screener, my screener, my screener, my screener. The funny thing is the literal first words I was just about to say were my screener, because my screener is looking at me from my coffee table as we speak. 824 sent out a screener for that movie, and they did not send screeners for all of their movies. This is what I will say about the motion picture Tuesday, which I have not seen because no one seemed to like it. Agreed. Firebrand, a movie about Jude Law having a gross leg.

liked it um ghost light which i always incredible movie incredible movie was never going to be an oscar nominee um but incredible no it really did kind of hit its ceiling of getting the spirit noms that it got um what's her name again bridget o' Sullivan Bridget o' Sullivan i will follow you to your next several projects after that and st francis um doing movies back to back like that um Absolutely. What are you laughing at? What's so funny? But nothing. I'm laughing about because we have the deliverance on here. Should have been a make-up nominee. God bless that. I mean, I ultimately hated that movie for where it ends up. But God bless giving us the Nappy Pussy movie. Between the Temples, Carol Cain's campaign, that as soon as like it started, it was like, well, this is not going to happen.

But good for her that she got what she got for that movie. Absolutely. That'll be maybe fun to talk about in the future. Lee, we did not, we got all this far and never mentioned Lee. I couldn't fit Lee into any of the categories. I still haven't seen it, so I can't say anything about it. But there was a moment where it did seem like we could be having a Lever was going to sweep the nation. I did call that Golden Globe nomination, and I'm still incredibly proud of calling that Golden Globe nomination. but I think ultimately best actress proved to be too crowded for a Lee situation to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I feel like, I'm sure there's a few other things we haven't mentioned elsewhere, but I don't feel like we've given his three daughters. It's due on this episode. Talk about it, because I love that movie. It's in my top ten. It's probably in my top five. I wept at that movie after watching it. in Toronto, I think, beyond the fact, I think ultimately, maybe it's a little bit of a

disservice that, like, everybody leads with how much that movie made them cry, because it's not just this weepy. It's not just this thing that's going to mug you for your tears. It's a great movie about, if you are, like me, a sucker for movies about naughty sibling relationships and K-N-O-T-Y, not like bad girl naughty, you know what I mean? But, like, um, it's, it's three actresses at the top of their game working out a complicated family dynamic in a New York City apartment that feels claustrophobic. And even, you know, obviously the whole thing is animated by the fact that they are sort of sitting vigil with their father, sort of working out how to handle the end-of-life situation. But even with that, you don't ever set that aside, but like it is a

very satisfying movie regardless. I think the only criticism I had seen about that movie from anyone is that it feels like more a law of a play than a movie. And I guess I... I hate that criticism. It's so lazy. It's so fucking lazy. And it's always the most smug person making that criticism. And I ultimately am just like, if this movie, if the worst thing you can say about this movie is that it comes across like a play, it still probably would be like the best play that I had seen that year. You know what I mean? And ultimately, I don't care.

I don't need every movie to be, you know, the bells and whistles of, you know, visual storytelling or whatever. Obviously, filmmaking is a visual medium. But I think Azizal Jacobs does quite a bit, actually, with the way he deals with space in that movie and the way he deals with, you know, um, you know, where he's filming these actresses from and their sort of proximity to each other, to their father. I think it's incredibly well done.

I think that movie obviously did not get served well from Netflix, but maybe that's also a thing that I talk about too much when I talk about this movie. I'm like, don't talk about how much it made you cry. Don't talk about how much Netflix screwed it. Talk about what a good movie it is. Do you know what I mean? Right, right.

Because as soon as we were at that TIF and Netflix bought it, We were like, no. It's over. It's so over. Yeah. It was like over before it began. Yeah. And I understand that like Azizal Jacobs's thing is grading to a lot of people.

But I do think this is the most effective. Throw that away. Yeah. Because what he's doing and like French exit is doing it to an extreme. That I understand why that's alienating to people. It's this heightened characterness in like these characters push to the. these like extremes, but they're existing within a very, in a real space. Like they are these, they're these like archetypes.

And they're, you know, they, but he like puts them in a real world. Yes. You know. I think his three daughters is the absolute most effective, like knocking it out of the park of doing what he is trying to do and making it work. because the the dynamic between these siblings is like they're each these extremes

like Carrie Coon is basically playing a hammer and she's almost like a stonewaller you know this this extreme grim hard person and then you have hippie-dippy Elizabeth Olson uh lovey like ooh like she's almost like speaks in the voice I do categorize this movie as a fairy tale. And maybe it's partly because she's almost like Disney princess of the three sisters. Mommy-coded for most of it.

And then she has that great monologue about the grateful that, you know, you sort of, you get a whole new angle on that character. I go back and forth constantly as to who I think gives the best performance. Ultimately, I would like to nominate the three of them together, which is why I'm glad the Independent Spirit Awards did just exactly that. I think they made the right call. There are times when I, you know, shift and shift, but I think I maybe most often come to Elizabeth Olson

as being my favorite performance. I think she's the best performance in the movie and a lot of it goes back to the deadhead monologue. Yeah. But then you have Natasha Leone, who is the she's the stoner sister who's like, even though we're on type. Yeah. Yeah, but the arc of that movie in, like, Like, it's a very Azizal Jacobian thing of it is these three characters who the characterization

and the type that they are playing belong in three different movies. Like, they are like pulled like claw machine style out of one movie and dropped in this reality of this movie that is very much the real world. And the beautiful thing on top of the emotional arc of that movie is that. is the trajectory of that movie is getting them all to belong in the movie that they exist in together at the same time, yep.

And maybe that sounds highfalutin. No. And too conceptual. But that's something I think the movie actually pulls off beautifully. Also, whenever I text my friend George about some sports bet

that I have made and it's success or failure, I always do feel a little bit like Natasha Leon's character, just being like, I got an eight-way parley. The Colts got a win. and the Jets got to lose by less than four. And it's just like, oh, my God, like, where am I going? What am I doing?

So, yeah, I think that's a great movie to end on, because obviously that is a movie that means a lot to both of us. And who knows when we'll be able to gather ourselves enough to do an episode on that movie, but we eventually will. And I think we have a very exciting roster. I think one of the sort of daunting things about doing class of is like, I want to do all of these episodes. And like, you know, it'll be years before we get to, you know, all of the, even all of our like, you know, most anticipated ones. But that's a reason to keep on listening to us forever.

Never go away, listener. Let's take a second, though, and thank all of our listeners. We hope you loved this episode. We love doing it every year. We're in the middle of hard times Or at the beginning of hard times Or maybe we're constantly in the state of hard times The hard times have always been here

As much as we try to Give you some respite from the harsh realities of the real world Know that your devoted listening Gives us a little bit of that as well Well said, well said We really appreciate you guys listening We do I'll speak personally for myself and say that I've had

a really, really hard year and a half and it's not getting any better. And I just appreciate everybody who listens to this show. Well said. Incredible. And most of all, I appreciate you Joseph. I love you very, very much.

I love you too. Listener, we may bicker and fight on the show, but it's only because we love each other so much. It's true. It's true. Yeah, I mean, everything that you said, I couldn't I couldn't say it better and if I did it would be a lot more stammering and saying um so I'm not going to try. Take care of yourselves

take care of each other take care of each other I don't know why I'm very into doing that we see each other fingers from candy and uh nini but here we are all of that go see a goddamn movie go see a goddamn movie

why not I'm going to try and see I want to see presents at some point this weekend if I can get away and we'll kick off 2025 with a bang. Soderberg should make presents and presents. He should make a movie about gift giving. One million percent.

It's like toys. It's like Barry Levinson's toys, but it's presents. Also, Steven Soderberg should be in a trailer for that movie where he's just standing in a field wearing a hat. Remember that trailer for toys? Toys a movie that we should do as an exceptions sometime soon. Maybe that'll be March. We've got to decide on what March is.

Fascinating. Maybe we just did. Maybe we just did. If it's streaming anywhere. We'll find out. Anyway, listeners, we love you. Next week, we will be back to the business of talking about a movie. I have to pat ourselves on the back for how things worked out for what next week's episode is, given. Can I tell you? I don't even know what episode we're talking about. We recorded it several weeks ago. But yeah. Listener, we're already. recording March episodes. We're very, very ahead of the game. We're very ahead of the game. Also, can I just, I mean, whatever, we love you all. I will say, if the schedule at any point feels a little wonky,

I know certainly with the Patreon, we established a practice of popping in with little mini episodes. If things, you know, feel a little bit jagged in that way, know that, like, we are trying our best And truly, this is a really, I don't want to put anything on you, Chris. But, like, this has been a very tough time for Chris.

So. And for you, you are very busy. Well, you are booked and busy. But it can also be. I'm not going to complain about being booked and busy. But so just, just, you know, a modicum of grace. And we would very much appreciate that. So we thank you.

That's all. That's all. We have an outro we should probably do, Chris. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's my role this week. That's our episode at long last. If you want more of ThisHad Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at ThisHadoscurbuzz.com. You can also follow us on Instagram at This Had Oscar Buzz and on Patreon at patreon.com slash This Head Oscar Buzz. Yeah. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? I'm on Zabluski and the Letterboxky at Joe. read, read spelled R-E-I-D, I am also to be found on Patreon yaking about the old Demy Moore filmography that she's having a pretty good year. So maybe what better way to memorialize that

than by going to Patreon slapping down five bucks a month, which is a bargain if I do say so myself, and to hear me and a cavalcade of guests that has often included Chris File talk about the films of Dime Moore in order. We are up to the early nine So that is exciting. We have an episode just put up the episode on Disclosure. We have the episode on a decent proposal coming up. Yes, we had to swap those two in chronological order because of scheduling reasons, but otherwise we would be doing them in chronological order. We're having a great time. Patreon.com slash Demipod, D-E-M-I-P-O-D, if you would like to go. Listen, I truly hope you will. And I'm going to be back very soon. Fuck yeah. I guess I keep thinking that the episode I'm back for is sooner than it is because I do think it's a little bit of time. She worked a lot in the 90s.

It's almost as if she made a lot of movies in the 90s. It's almost as if that's the reason why I wanted to do this podcast. Yes. Yeah. You can find me on Blue Sky and Letterbox at Krispy File. That's F. As always, thank you Kyle Cummings for our fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Medivius for technical guidance when we need it.

and Taylor Cole for our theme music. You know what? You know what? This episode is for you, Taylor Cole. Wow. Shout out Taylor Cole. You especially. Who is playing the piano to Challenger's score music as we speak, probably.

I'm going to see Taylor soon because I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks. So I'm very excited. Oh, that's right. Oh, please give Taylor a hug from me. And you, listener, please remember to rate like and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcast, Five-star review in particular. Really helps us out with Apple Podcasts visibility. So please show up in the comments and give us a yeah times 10 with a five-star review.

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