This Had Oscar Buzz - Mail Bag: Vol. 1

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

It’s our annual year-end tradition! You’ve sent us your questions on Oscar past and present, but this year’s mailbag brings a special surprise: you’ve asked us such fun and thoughtful questions that we’re splitting the mailbag into two instalments! [Cue “Battle Without Honor or Humanity”] This mailbag, we’ll be answering questions about what might be Glenn … Continue reading "Mail Bag: Vol. 1"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. You're not going to believe this. Oh, let me guess.

Through the internet? Yes. You've got mail. Yes. Those are very powerful words. Yes. Hello and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that's mail bag, male nasty. Every week on This Had Oscar Buzz.

Buzz, we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had Lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died, and we're here to perform the autopsy, except this week, it's our mailbag episode. So we'll be pull, uh, what is like, uh, what's the small scale autopsy? You know, it's not, it's focused, it's broad. We will, uh, will be, uh, um, I'm still back on the road where like, wondering how many contexts could you find a way to do the Jack Twist

Jack Nasty joke? Because I feel like for you the limit does not exist. I really feel like... No, no, no, no, no. I really feel like you could shoehorn that one into anything. I mean, like, I almost said can you imagine if Twitter existed during Brokeback Mountain. Don't want that because I don't want the people pulling, like... Oh, the takes.

Oh, not the takes. Yeah, about how the movie is actually morally corrupt, whatever. Right. Straight watching. Like, yeah, because I was going to say all of the jack twist, jack nasty jokes that could potentially come out of that. But like, I still feel like they're there, but never in an omnipresent way that, like, everybody's making those jokes. But it's just like, it's better this way. You'll see one a week and it will destroy you. Yeah, real ones, real ones will make a, we'll make a good jack twist jack, jack nasty joke.

And honestly, that's good enough for me. I myself did not make a good jack twist jack nasty joke. But guys, I'm your host. Chris Fyle, I'm here, as always, with my male man, Joe Reed. I like that emphasis on male man as if I was, like, once a male boy, and now I am, I have gone through my male rituals, and now I am a male man. Or it's the Jackie Harry, the Jackie Harry, an old man, a young man, a male man. Something you would like deliver to your house, a male man. Yeah, yeah, exactly, right, right, right, right.

So we're here to do a mailbag. We have gotten, first of all, we do this as a special episode to say thank you to our listeners, our wonderful listeners who are wide, various, and very, very appreciated by us. I think this is, because I handle all of the incoming mailbag questions for us. Yes. I think this is the most questions we've ever had. That makes sense. It was a lot. is only growing, which is, you know, very good. And we, we love that. And we appreciate it so much.

Guys, we love you. Um, we do. And thank you so much for all of your questions, your thoughtful questions. Once again, I, not just that this was, I think, the most we've ever had, but like, way more than we could ever get to in this episode. So we apologize if your question is not in there. It does not mean we do not appreciate you. Um, but we have some fun stuff to talk about today. We do feel like if we haven't chosen your question, uh, you have room for improvement. And really, in the next year, we'd like you to concentrate on that. No, I'm kidding. No, I'm kidding. What an

awful thing to say. I'm sorry, I brought the language of annual work evaluations into this podcast. The subtext of this episode is HR is not your friend. The subject to this episode is have a seat. We have to talk. Yeah, no. No, that is not

the subtext of this. We've printed out your emails. Would you like to talk to us about... You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on Oscar Prediction websites? What's going on here? Yeah. Awards daily? What?

Yeah. Oh. Flashback into my youth. Before it was, you know. Apple trailers? What? What are you doing? Yeah. That was me. All right. Let's not waste a ton of time because we do have, as you mentioned, a ton of questions.

We do. We do want to jump right. some quick table setting. These are questions that we get pretty much every mailbag that like we like to talk about because you know, we get, I think they come from more new listeners who maybe haven't gone back to like previous times. We've talked about some of this. But like it's good, it's good

to get it out there and like it'll start us fresh on the incoming new year for the rest of the podcast. You know one question we didn't get this time that we usually do is where does the Salma Hayek and from Canada water come from? Once again, go back to our Ask the Dust episode. I was all right, let's wait

on that, Chris, because I do feel like I'm going to bring that up organically in a different question. As you are prone to do in any conversation about any wide-ranging topic. Yes, so yeah, stay tuned. Okay. Pulling this one from Nathan, unless I'm missing something, you two

have never chosen a film from before your periods of Oscar awareness or at least your lifetimes have you discussed or considered choosing older films that fit the profile of your show um the oldest episode we've done is as old as i am uh it was nuts nuts that was a fun episode i enjoyed doing our episode on nuts yeah it's hard right yes 1987 the year i was born um it's hard because that period we're talking about is when like Oscar predictions and, you know, the Oscar ethos really kind of evolved. Right.

Because before basically that time, you know, the, I guess the Dirty Secret under our breath, before Harvey Weinstein and Miramax really changed the face of the race. Yeah. In terms of what Oscar campaigning was, it really was a studio effort kind of thing. And you had to be really. really, really inside the business to sort of know what was going on. There were, of course, reporters and there were, you know, writers at the trades and variety and the Hollywood reporter and whatnot.

It was a much more organic thing that would come from even, like, the reactions to the films, you know, the kind of thing that maybe a lot of us want today, where there's less campaigning, and it's truly, you know, how we as a movie going culture, respond to movies. Whereas, like, independent cinema would break through here and then, but there would also be a lot of stars attached, you know, where it's like Jake Fonda goes and makes a movie outside of the studio system and, you know, it gets attention, but it's also a quality movie. And, like, something even like EVEZ writer, which would change the industry, really, could

get attention, you know, being kind of a more outsider movie. It's just a more organic thing. But then as like Oscar campaigning comes into it, that's how like predicting and, you know. Yeah, we're chronicling a time that is very much necessary to include the ecosystem of the internet here. And websites and social media eventually and things like that. And while it's fun to talk about movies like nuts or like the bonfire or the vanities, I think to get really dig into movies that had Oscar buzz and got no Oscar nominations from, you know, the 80s and earlier, I think the other thing that we should probably mention is that just like, we do this podcast and we love this podcast and we dedicate a lot of ourselves to this podcast, but it's not our main job. Like we have main jobs.

And I think if we were, if this was our job, right? if we were Karina Longworth doing, doing, you must remember this or something, and had the time and resources to really research, because that's what you would really need to do, is you would really need to, like, deeply research anything that was beyond, like, beyond the period of our own experience, right? Whereas this, I can wing it, and I can be like, hey, I remember when the Amelia trailer came out and let me tell you, you know what I mean? Right.

But, like, part of the reason that, like, we. can research what we do is because most of this stuff, we have not let it leave our brain. We can't let it go. Our poor diseased brains need to purge. If we have to do some research, we know the avenues to go down for it. But also, it's just like, if

you get further out of the calendar that we've talked about before, it's like, you're really talking about movies that were failures in other ways, and it's like at most its lack of Oscar nominations would be a footnote in why that

movie, you know, didn't register. And we'd really need to get into things like, you know, doing like, you know, the old Lexus Nexus search or whatever of like old trade paper articles and, and, and books. And again, like, somebody like, granted, we of course would love to do that. Of course. If that was my job, are you kidding me? I'd be in my glory. But it's also, and I mean, not to make light of it because, like, it's hard work. Like, as I, as I meant, like, Karina Longworth is the best in the biz for a reason. It's because she is an incredibly dedicated researcher into whatever subjects she is delving into, but also she can dedicate six months of her, of her life to that, because that is her job, you know?

So, um, not to be like, you know, making excuses for ourselves, but yeah, we have, we have to make a living, y'all. Well, I mean, especially in the past, like, two years of my life, my day job, like, sucks more and more of my mental capacities. So, like, yeah. Uh, next question. Any, any wealthy benefactor out there who wants to sugar daddy this podcast and, uh, and finance us, some eccentric billionaire who really loves the Oscars? Or any network that wants to, uh, you know, adopt us so that we are no longer an independent podcast. Absolutely. Um, pay us. Um, anyway. Uh, from Elliot, what are some bold predictions for that this had Oscar Buzz class of 2021? So we, we like to, A, stay optimistic about

all movies and such. We also are two people who are not prone to having egg on our face about wrong predictions. We're also at a stage of the Oscar year right now where a lot of things are a possibility. So it really

is difficult to say. We're going to have some questions that are going to get into the possibility of this race. I do feel like more than ever, there are major races that are completely in flux that it could be like one of a billion different lineups and like I what's

frustrating to me and I don't want to get into this because we can get into it with some of the other questions that we have is it seems like that is annoying people and that drives me crazy because I'm like no this is what everybody says that they want and like nobody

seems to want it and that that's what is like fun about this that's what you should not take too seriously about this and you know also the Oscars are in late March. Like, this race is going to narrow and it's going to get predictable eventually. So enjoy the part of the year where it's not predictable. This is my favorite time of the year where everything is kind of a possibility. I will say, though, to answer the question, I think a movie like, don't look up is to me one of those movies with like the biggest variance, right?

Where, like, you could see a world where academy members respond to its, you know, intentions and its message. And this is a movie that I have not seen yet. And you have. So, like, we're on two different levels of experience here. But I could still see a version of the Academy that hands this one to five nominations. Or I can see a version of history where it gets 10 and I see a version that it gets zero. Right, exactly. I think after the- I can see a version where it's just for this movie, Academy Award nominee, Ariana Grande, Best Original song, and then nothing else.

Spare me. But I think after this initial rounder of reviews, I'm maybe not seeing a world where 10 nominations is possible. But, like, you know, a handful is still there. Maybe one of those, like, Vice turnout. You could have said the same about the reviews for Vice. But Vice ended up with how many nominations, though? It's probably more than I'm remembering, actually. God.

Yeah, it's more than I'm remembering. Okay. Yeah. Well, fair. I feel like Vice is its upper level. All the top categories. It did really well. Yeah.

The other ones that I'm thinking. of is, while I think it probably is going to get a foreign language film nomination, there is a world in which Titan does not get any nominations, and because we all sort of started thinking it would, now all of a sudden we can do an episode on Teuton, which would be amazing, which would be so much fun to do. My mind's set for a class of 2021, it's going to be really interesting to see what we talk about that episode slash going to be a nightmare to prepare for. unless things really do narrow down because, like, for everything that I'm like, oh, this definitely, there's a thing of like, well, dear Evan Hansen could get an original song nomination or, you know, things like that.

Right. Totally. The other episode that I'm not exactly looking forward to doing, but we will probably end up doing is, unless, you know, voters come around and I kind of hope they do at least in certain categories, is we'll probably end up doing it in the heights. episode. And it will just be two hours of me angrily ranting. It could be an original song, how many? I mean, I hope it gets something. Um, but if it doesn't, and it really feels like it's the afterthought of afterthoughts, which is just... Yeah, I don't think Warner Brothers is doing anything for it. No, it's not. And it's just going to be me being so angry that, A, that this movie flopped at the box office and, and whatever, I can only get so angry at people

because, like, it was a pandemic and whatever. I'm not going to tell you to go out of the house if you don't want to. But also the fact that because it did not, it was not a financial success, then all of a sudden, everybody totally forgot about the fact that they liked it,

you know? And all of a sudden it was just like, well, now it's just shit. And it's, it makes me mad. It was a poorly promoted movie. Like,

the trailers for that movie did not really sell you on what the plot of it was. And, like, the star of the movie, even though, like, it, you know,

the trailer showed, the cast of it, but, like, audiences were left with being, like, the star of this movie is the musical Hamilton? Like... Yeah. No, it's right. They really did try to do that, like, heavily on the switcheroo. Like, you like Hamilton, right?

Go see you in the heights. Right. And, no, I think you're right. But also, it's not like it had stars to advertise on. So I understand, at some point, I just want movie audiences, whatever. Again, I can't complain about people not going to see this movie in a pandemic. but I also can be like I don't know

at least they should have watched it a ton on fucking HBO Max or something even though I hate it was also on HBO Max. Yeah, I thought the data that came out about it was that it wasn't super highly watched on HBO Max. Yeah, and part of me is just like just have a fucking sense of adventure

for once in your life, you morons. I don't know. That will be our episode and In The Heights. It's just my, that will be my attitude throughout it. It will be you at your angriest. Yes. It might be me at my snobiest. Because I'm like, I enjoyed the movie.

It is, really poorly shot um oh okay we're gonna fight that okay yeah we'll fight on that episode you guys can look forward to us uh ending our friendship um or just generally fighting i like our episodes where we fight sometimes i don't okay uh anyway i didn't pull a specific question about this but we did get a lot of questions about when we would start a patria on yeah we want to you guys and we do really appreciate the eagerness. Does anybody want to volunteer to be our accountant for no fee? Because then we'll start a Patreon. Okay? That day. Again, if, you know, this was our jobs, it would be very different. Like, I, for me personally, I kind of can't take

on one more thing. And like, we also understand about us, when we want to do something, we want to do it as well as we can. So, like, we would feel the extra responsibility in doing a Patreon and, like, doing it well for you guys and, you know, making it something you would want to have. Yes. So, we'll see. We'll see. We want to.

It's all, it's been in our long-term plans forever. We definitely have ideas. I certainly would love money. Life has gotten in the way. Life has gotten in the way. And again, the logistical annoyances of having to deal with making freelance income, fucking suck. So, yeah. Yeah. Hopefully soon. Hopefully one day.

Joe, let's get into some general questions. Are you ready? Are you cracking your knuckles? Yes, metaphorically. I don't want to literally crack my knuckles because I have enough aches and pains in my life as a 40-something person now. You're not a person who, when you crack them, it takes the aches. Arthritis is probably knocking down the road, and I don't want to give it any quicker of an arrival. All right. All right. Starting us off with questions from Brayden. and Brayden asks, why is Critics' Choice seen as such a large precursor award? I've always looked at it as an award show with a very wide-ranging list of categories, and I feel like the awards body gets more caught up on trying to guess who will win.

Is this just a remnant of the past, or is it a genuine precursor? One thing, this is, we've talked about this about the Globes, but you do kind of also have to remember it about Critics' Choice, too, in less toxic terms, obviously. but the awards body and the awards they give out are not the same thing. Like, we don't like the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. We have fun watching the Golden Globes, which is like more credit to Dick Clark productions than it is to that body. The thing about critics' choice is they've made, I think these expansion of categories and stuff have been production choices that are. being made about the award show and the network that they've been on. Yeah, yes. They want

famous people on TV so that they also want to pander to a TV audience and they want to build a TV audience. So they want to do the thing that we're always kind of mocking the Oscars for trying to inch into, which is loading up with populist categories that just seem kind of lame, like best actor in an action movie, best actress in an action movie. And how seriously should we take something like that when they're giving out a million acting prizes, right? And then at the same time, they will try to tout, this is the thing that most annoys me about the critics' choice, is that they will try to tout their Oscar predictive abilities. I wish I could remember.

I certainly can't find the clip online. But one of the years, one of the earlier years that it was televised, they had an actor giving banter, scripted banter before giving out an award. And a lot of the banter was just like. in the past X years, the winner of the Critics' Choice Award went on to win the Oscar eight out of ten times or whatever like that. And then the actor who is reading the copy sort of stops himself for a second and goes, man, this is a really braggy award show. And I'm just like, yes, thank you. I mean, I agree with that. I question where that's coming from. Is it coming from the producer

of the award show and their writing team or is it coming from the awards body? And I... Well, it also exists in their press releases when they will release the nominating. every year. So, like, that's where it's coming from some sort of high up edict because that's what they want to be known for. They've been very sort of thirsty. When they do things like hedging their bets on who might win, like they give this broad, the year they gave that like broad actor of the year award to Jessica Chastain, but they didn't give her like best actress or supporting actress. I forget what year it was that she was in the running for. They expanded their acting categories very early on to six nominees because they wanted to be able to say, right. And so

And it's just like they seem very overly concerned with being an Oscar predictor, which is funny because, again, we talk about how we would always kind of slight the Golden Globes for why do we see the Golden Globes as an Oscar predictor. There is zero overlap between their like 35 weird journalists. And they're a niche group of 100 people compared to like what is now almost 10,000 or over 10,000 academy members. Right. There's no overlap between the Hollywood foreign press and the academy. There's also no overlap between the broadcast film critics association. in the academy. So, like, there's really no actual reason why we should see those as predictive more so than, say, the Screen Actors Guild, which is predictive for a reason. But also, I mean, the Critics' Choice have always annoyed me. But again, now they have a television show. They are one of a few shows that are kind of poised to take that mantle. You've got the SAG Awards, you've got the Critics' Choice, and now the Independent Spirit Awards are kind of throwing their head in the ring, although they are more naturally limited by the scope of what they are, right?

They're only for the ones that I'm most worried about what's going to become of that award show. Though I do think Critics' Choice is more poised to be, like, the prime time, it's been on, like, the CW before, but, like, people haven't, if you put it on, like, ABC, will more people watch it, probably. Well, this year, it's going to be on the CW and TBS, I want to say. It's, like, simulcasting. I think they've done that before. Um, when we talk about, go ahead, no, you go ahead.

When we talk about the awards body, though, one of the things that I think gets overlooked in why critics' choice should be considered more and why I think at least their wins are not necessarily trying to predict the Oscars. They are among these voting bodies in terms of size. They are closest to the academy. There's, there's several thousand members, right? Right. And when that many number of people are voting, it's not the same thing as when a hundred people are voting. And it's not the same thing when it's just SAG, who's just voting actors on actors, basically. And like the way that consensus builds with that large of a group, like maybe this makes me sound like some type of math nerd or something. No, you're right. It's worth, you know, paying attention to. With larger numbers, you end up coming to a more sort of median. median consensus. And that is how the Oscars end up with. There are people always talk about, like, how could this person beat out such and such who was giving a more like objectively daring performance? And it's like, well, well, that's how, like, that's how large number mathematics work, actually. Like, that's sort of, you get a big enough group. And when you're dealing with a

large enough group and the more people that you're putting in that group, the broader the taste is going to be. And the more mainstream, the taste is going to be. And I hesitate to use a term like lowest common denominator because that does sound pejorative. But it's, mathematically, that's sort of what you're going to, is you're going to end up sort of regressing to, and again, regressing sounds pejorative, but like to a mean, to a median sort of option. It's, it's the thing that the most people can agree on is good. It's not great, maybe, is not terrible, but is good. And that's sort of what you have. And to me, I do think there is, when you're talking about the Oscars especially, I do think there is value to that because it is, it's a historical sort of

like landmark, right? It is a where we were at the time. And so I don't disagree with you with that about the critic's choice. I do feel like I would like them to be just a little more daring. I think all awards bodies besides the Oscars should have some sort of element of juryed nomination processes, just because the canvas that you are working with is so broad. There are so many movies these days. Certainly in the Emmys, there are so many television shows that it's impossible to ask a voting body that large to assess all of those things. So I think the critic's choice could become instantly a lot more interesting, and I'd have a

lot more respect for them if they went more towards something like that. The Screen Actors Guild does that. They have a nominating committee. And I think that's probably a big reason why sometimes we get some really weird and interesting SAG nominees. And it's not always something we love. But I would much rather have an awards body that gives me great choices and terrible choices, along with the more consensus stuff, rather than like all consensus, which is what the critics' choices to me. I'm never surprised by a SAG nomination, or by a critics' choice nomination in film.

Even in their television awards are a whole a lot of thing. I'm like, that's a kin of words, we don't have time for me to open. But their film awards, I'm always just like, oh, right, those are like the top six Oscar contenders. Like, that's what they were going to nominate. Okay. And sometimes they do nominate things like

end out for compliance that, like, you know, make sense that it would be consensus for this body. that will never really have a shot at being Oscar nominated. But even those, to me, I look at that, you know, a decade later or whatever about Ann Dowd, and I'm like, oh, right, that's the thing that everybody was talking about as a Dark Horse Oscar contender at that very moment.

You know what I mean? And people were writing sort of like, but what about Ann Dowd? And again, it just feels like you are writing a predictions column rather than casting an awards ballot. But I've said my piece about the Critics Choice. We should have maybe caveated this question with we're recording this the day before this year's Critics Choice nomination. So anything could happen tomorrow that make us sound stupid. But generally speaking about this awards body. The next question I wanted to throw in there because we do get a lot of people always wanting us to do something that got like a few nominations or two. But I also

love the chaos of this question. From Stephen, Stephen asks, since you'll never be able to do an episode on Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, could you riff on it for a few minutes and give your thoughts? As one of the most divisive additions to the Best Picture Races in recent years, after

opening up the race to more than five films, it has always lingered for me since I didn't hate it. You don't hate that movie, Stephen. We respect your opinion on it. I wouldn't call that movie divisive. I would call it revised. I would call it reviled. Yeah.

I also didn't hate it, though, I will say. Yeah, there's people that didn't hate it, but, like, I don't know if there's people really stumbling for it. Didn't hate it feels like the upper echelon of that. I also don't really think about it very much or remember it, but I remember my reaction to it when I finally saw it was, oh, I don't hate this. Like, everybody seems to hate it. And I think a lot of people had come in hating the book.

And there was a lot of sort of momentum towards. kind of kicking at this movie, which is not to say that people weren't genuine in their negative reactions to it, because I believe, I believe you, they were. I feel like we see less and less of the type of extremely loud and incredibly closest in recent Oscar races,

because, like, one thing about that movie is it came in extremely late and, like, one of those things where it was like, is this movie even going to be ready in time? Yes. And I think what they did is they should, showed it to all the right people who were going to like it in terms of the academy, like incredibly last minute.

I love that you've used the words extremely and incredibly in describing this movie's situations. No, I'm just saying it's... My vocab is narrow and small. Extremely narrow and incredibly small. Fuck off. The thing that I love to remember extremely loud and incredibly close. close for is that it was the most trolling, I think, we had ever seen on nomination morning. Yeah.

All right. You do it because I was going to do it, but you do it. Yeah. Fully ready to talk about this. This is like one of my favorite nomination morning things because it was fully everyone screaming what? And throwing their arms in the air because this best picture nomination presented, which was read by none other than Jennifer Lawrence.

It was incredibly chaotic in that the screen, we didn't know what between six and ten nominees there would be, right? A lot of people have done them, did the math and was like, mathematically it's most likely that it will be eight or nine for the way that the voting happens, whatever. So when they start reading off the nominees, the way that the placement of the like tie- of the titles on the screen appear, it looks like it's going to be eight nominees.

But when they start reading the eight nominees, they are like in chaotic order, non-alphabetical. The first best picture nominee that they announce is Warhorse. And then where do they go from Warhorse? They go to the artist. So it's not even like they're going in reverse order. It's all in random order. And it looks like it's going to be eight nominees. The order was Warhorse, the artist, moneyball, the descendants, the tree of life, midnight in Paris, the help, and Hugo.

And you think that's going to be it. And then Jennifer Lawrence says, and extremely loud and incredibly close. And that tile shows up in the middle. And like, that's the one that you hear people screaming in the background for. But I think you also heard a collective scream around the globe. of people and Oscar obsessives being like this terrible movie is the one that they clearly trolled us with also made people who have to do like reporting on this incredibly chaotic

by doing it out of alphabetical order yeah it is I'll put the I'll put the video of it on our Tumblr page for this episode it's upsettingly disorganized yeah it was I had a big last because I did enjoy that everybody who was so mad at that movie had to be like extra mad that morning. I mean, it really felt like it was a troll of people who do

reporting on this and like they knew what they had on their hands with this nomination and like the people that would be outraged and they put it and if it wasn't intentional then it's very odd that they did it this way because it felt like it created

for people who are obsessive and watching the nominations announcement. It was just primed to make the movie go over even worse. Yeah. I mean, you've said everything I was going to say, so yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. Any other notes on extremely loud and incredibly close?

Not really. Again, I mean, that was sort of the one thing I was going to say about it was the sort of spatial relations trolling of that moment, but you got it. It's the first Stephen Daldry movie that he didn't get nominated for Best Director, right because he was nominated for the previous three he was nominated in director only for billy elliott he was nominated for the hours in both he was nominated for the reader in both yeah yes but it still continued his streak of one or the other like the fact that it wasn't until he made that movie with uh martin sheen that nobody saw that uh that broke that streak which is interesting martin jean yeah what was that

nobody saw it uh what was it called um hold on he also did the pandemic movie with james mackvoi that nobody saw this year god i have no idea what even that is i have no it was like about living with i think a spouse that you're getting divorced with during oh i was like absolutely not right together i am not watching pandemic movies about the pandemic no right not doing with charon hogan james McAvoy and Sharon Horgan, two incredibly likable and charming and charismatic people. But yeah. What was that movie called?

It was called Trash. Crash. Trash. Crash. Trash. Oh, my God. With Rooney Mora.

Right. Rune Marni. I think that movie really didn't get much of a release. No, not at all. That's what I mean. Like, that was the thing that broke the streak because, like, he made a movie that nobody saw. Yeah.

Yes. Moving right along from Olivia, your collective enthusiasm for Rosman Pike's threatening bank commercial, as well as recent discussions about Kate Winslet's mid-aughts, AMX ads got me thinking, what are some of your favorite and or most iconic celebrity appearances? All right. I'm going to say it because I know you're going to say it, too,

and I'm going to get in on this one. The ideal for this is the Lauren Bacall for High Point Coffee. Like, this is, this is the number one. One rehearsal, four actors, and 20 coffee cups. Around here, we don't like coffee, we love it. I look forward to my sixth cup as much as my first one. That's because my coffee's high point decaffeinated. I don't need caffeine.

I'm active enough, thank you. But that's just one reason this coffee lover chooses high point. Oh, that aroma's wonderful. Just look at this deep, rich color. But you know what really matters to coffee lovers? This. Mmm. Deep and rich.

Flavor this good has to be deep brewed into a coffee. Try High Point. The coffee lover's decaffeinated. The addiction, the enunciation, the intense commitment to selling the idea that you are a nut for High Point Coffee and its decaffeinated charm. Really it's amazing, especially because you can, it's really fun to like, you can, it's really fun to surprise people with it, especially people who, you know, are, like, younger, but, like, fancy themselves, like, estates or whatever, and it's just like, I'm into old movies and I know Lauren McCall. And I'm like, yes, but do you know her high point coffee commercials? It also

has a more recent, we must have talked about it when we did our crazy stupid love episode, because there's the moment in crazy stupid love where they're sort of montaging through Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling's kind of night of having sex and also falling for. for each other. They don't have sex. Oh, right, they don't have sex. They should have sex because, again, look at him. Emotionally, they have sex. Right. But there's one of the things that they sort of montage through with no explanation is Emma Stone doing a impersonation of Lauren Bacall doing the high point. It's decaffeinated ads, and it's really wonderful. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. I think that's right. I also have on my long

list. It's sort of in that same genre, the old Orson Wells ads that he would do when he needed to pick up some scare change for like Paul Mason-Shabli or whatever, or like, or frozen vegetables or whatever, parodied wonderfully on the critic. And I think one more sort of kind of sincere is I've always liked the Charlize Theron Dior ads, especially the earliest ones, the one where she's sort of strutting on a runway to that gossip song. I was just like, yeah, that's fucking hot. I love that. But I don't know. What are yours? I have one more example, but one note I want to say before I move on to that example. I don't want to get into conversations of what is and isn't camp, but I don't understand why we don't use the high point

coffee ad as an example of what is camp. Yeah. My other example, also an obvious one, but a right one is Jamie Lee Curtis for Activia. How many celebrities do we get essentially secondhand talking about poop? Yeah, that's true. Not to be scatological, but like, Jamie Lee Curtis talking about being regular, like, all we need. You're not wrong about camp, but I will also just say that I never thought that I would be at 40 years old so incredibly deathly afraid of anything as I am to advance an opinion about camp on Twitter because it is a jungle

out there y'all like trying to define. There's like three people I will let talk about camp and be like listen to this person. You're generous. I will I'm at zero now. I don't want to hear a single person try to tell me what camp is or what isn't camp. I don't give a fuck.

Don't blame the people writing about what is camp. Blame the editors that are still assigning out those jobs. No, I'll want to read that anymore. From Octavis, if you haven't already, please do a dive into the 46th annual Saturn Awards since they were finally announced. We haven't talked about this, but we amped this up on our Lucy in the Sky episode, the Saturn awards, the most like cursed awards delayed by the pandemic because it was like two years, but they

announced their nominees in March of 2021, didn't give them out until Halloween of this year. So you have movies like Lucy in the Sky still nominated for things. Extra hilarious because it's like, why is Lucy in the Sky a character drama nominated against Gemini Man and Star Wars? Right. The unfortunate thing is their winners while are just like a host of remember this movie you forgot about, like the live action Mulan. film. But it's also, they're boring, their winners are boring and they're not as fun to talk about. Like, it's Star Wars winning a bunch of things. I'll give you my best shot because honestly, and again, it mostly falls into the realm of how is this considered ex-genre. But like, best fantasy film went to, and I'm going to make you wait for it, because you'll never guess in a million

years. I have it up in front of me. No, I'm talking to our listeners at this point. Oh, okay. Best fantasy film went to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which I guess on one level is true, if you imagine it as Quentin Tarantino's fantasy for how he would have scripted the Manson family murders. But, like, that is not a fantasy film when we're talking about genre. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? J.R. Tolkien is rolling in his grave right now. What the fuck?

It's so stupid. Things like Rise of Skywalker winning Best Science Fiction film. I don't agree with the choice. I don't agree that it's a better science fiction film than add Astra or Tenet to genuinely rarely good movies, but like whatever. At least it fits the genre. Same thing with Joker winning Best Comic to Motion Picture Release, which whatever. But like, I'm glad that The Invisible Man won something. And while I probably would have picked Midsomar for Best Horror Release, I'm glad it wasn't freaky, which is the most overrated horror movie of the last two years.

Yeah, I'm not seeing that. I don't do it's fun. Yeah, you're not wrong to have that opinion. The Saturn's, if you are one of the people, and I know there are people out there who are of the onward was better than Soul people, then you'd be happy that that won best animated film. Soul didn't even seem to be nominated. Soul's not nominated. Which is weird. But okay. I mean, when they're nominating the animated Adam's family, the first one.

And not soul, that is odd to me. How are you going to not give Tenet best science fiction film and yet give John David Washington in Tenet best actor in a film? Like, not saying he was bad in that movie, but like there are, like... I don't think he's great in that movie. No, I don't think he's great either. Like, I think, like, there are, like, of the things that I love about Tenet, he's kind of far down the list, but it's fine. Glad Elizabeth Moss won something for The Invisible Man. I did love her in that.

I'm glad Anna de Armis won something for Knives Out because I did love her in that. So, like, that's fine. Yeah, it's not as fun to talk about the long-delayed awarding of their winners as it is to talk about their winners, unfortunately. Exactly. But that is an update on that. Yes. From on Twitter, the Aviator 20 asked, do you think Kill Bill, especially Uma Thurman, could have been nominated if the film was released as one whole three-hour epic as originally intended instead of being split into two films? this is a good consider this episode our kill bill episode because we got a decent number of listeners choice bids for both kill bill movies because you can only vote for one movie and those are two movies released in two separate years but also like why would you want us to be talking about kill bill those are like those movies have been kind of unpacked but this is a good question about it um i think no um yeah i've seen this notion kind of bandied about a lot

a little bit in recent years. So I'm wondering whether if this is one of those things that has kind of gained steam on message boards and, you know, discussion communities and whatnot. I mean, I think maybe she would have been better positioned to be like a sixth or seventh place, but ultimately I don't,

yeah, I don't, I think if, if your argument is that she would have been better off as a, not, uh, for an awards campaign, if it was only one movie.

your assumption is that awards voters were holding off on voting for her in part one because they knew that part two was coming. But I don't think that's why Uma Thurman didn't get nominated in 03. That movie just wasn't for them. It's weird. I mean, like, you look at the Tarantino's movies now and like you look back across this filmography and it is bizarre to like look at the ones that were the Academy's things and not the Academy's thing,

like the Hateful Eight being an Oscar winner when it is way more violent and way more obtuse and, you know, way less audience-friendly. Yeah. But Kill Bill isn't. It's strange, but in the context of that time, the Academy was not ready to embrace Tarantino post...

This was I was going to say is, I think Inglorious Bastards sort of unlocked a door, which then, because of it, was a World War II movie, which is a genre that the Academy really loves, it sort of backdoored in a lot of the Tarantino violence and made that violence palatable, if only because it was attached to this World War II movie. And I think then going forward... And a lead star that they were much more, even though Uma Thurman was an Oscar nominee at that point, but a lead star who's way more in their wheelhouse, too.

Are you talking about Christophiles? No, I'm talking about Brad Pitt. Oh, right, but I mean, but the nominee. I think she's amazing, but, like, they're inherently going to be way on board, way more on board with a Brad Pitt movie than they are in Uma Thurman movie. Yeah, even though I feel like Brad Pitt was sort of, like, weirdly backburnered when that movie was kind of being campaigned. But, like, regardless, I think then...

Yeah, in terms of a nomination. but, like, what is going to get them to put that movie on from a stack of movies? I think if Bill, I think if Kill Bill comes after Inglorious Bastards, it maybe has a better shot. Although even in that case, you look at his movies, I guess Hateful Aid is the exception. Hateful Eighth is the one movie that is like violence and ugliness for violence and ugliness's sake. But, like, Django is violence and ugliness attached to a sort of antebellum slave liberation narrative. and once upon a time in Hollywood is violence and ugliness

at least at a certain point of the movie attached to... Well, and taking, you know, his own relationship to on-screen violence and ugliness in like, you know, a film-making history sense. Right, again, and trucking... And that is a movie about violence. Well, yes, but while trafficking

in another sort of well-appreciated Hollywood genre, which is Hollywood itself. Right, yeah. So, I don't know, I think there are very limited number of universes where Uma Thurman ends up nominated, unfortunately, because if you were talking about top five performances in Tarantino movies, Uma as the Bride is one of the most iconic and would have been a great nominee. And I would happily talk about

Kill Bill on this podcast, because I think while you're right that all of Tarantino movies have been discussed plenty, I weirdly do feel like the Kill Bill movies have been kind of shunted towards the back because of the post Inglorious Bastards run of his movies that like really tend to get talked to death. That's maybe fair. I just feel like us doing a Kill Bill episode is like us doing a Heat episode. Sure. What is what you're saying?

We could, but why? Sure. And like you're making a good case for why. I think with Heat at least though, I think the thing where neither one of us is saying about heat is just like haven't straight people talked about that enough. and I don't know if I feel exactly the same way about Kill Bill, but whatever. Well, and I also feel like, why do a Kill Bill, Volume 2 episode, even though, like, there's plenty to argue about that that is the superior film, but, like, way, fewer Oscar expectations after the first one didn't get anything. And it's not Lord of the Rings, where it's like, well, we're just waiting for the final one to honor the whole thing.

No, no, it wasn't like that for Kill Bill. I like volume two significantly less, but that is the movie that has the supporting performances that I think are the strongest contenders with Daryl Hannah and also David Caradine. But anyway, should we move on? Yeah, next question from Josh. I love this question. He dares us to each tell me your number one favorite or MVP performance in these SAG winning cast. He throws out the birdcage. Gosford Park, No Country for Old Men, Spotlight, Hidden Figures, and Crash. Crash.

I don't want to risk being boring on some of these, so I'm going to... Whatever. So, we'll start with the birdcage. I could get cute with this. Obviously, you know I love Diane Weist. Obviously, you know I love Diane Weist saying somebody has to love me best, which is a movie line I tend to think of a lot temperamentally. I'm right there with you, Diane. But it's Nathan Lane. Like, that movie doesn't work without Nathan Lane giving the performance that he does. We talked about this when we did our screen drafts episode on drag movies. I sort of went on and on and on, as I tend to do, about how much I love Nathan Lane in that movie. So that's my pick for that one. What is your birdcage? My pick for the birdcage, like, I'm not saying this to be combative. I feel like the birdcage has been like a comfort watch for people in the pandemic and like especially during lockdown.

So I feel like I've had a lot of conversations about the birdcage. I honestly think it's Robin Williams and it's not to, you know, poo-poo anything that Nathan Lane is doing because he's incredible. I just think on some level, Robin Williams has the harder job in that movie, not just in terms of that movie and how it functions. and what its characters are tasked to do and the actors playing them, but also in terms of his career and what was expected of him, like, wasn't he actually,

didn't they approach him to play the Nathan Lane character first? And he said, no, I want to do this one. Oh, interesting. It's a bigger challenge for Robin Williams. I could be wrong about that story, or misremembering. But I do think for that performer, at that point in their career, He's taking the bigger risk.

And when I rewatch it now, he's the one that gets the biggest laughs out of me. Interesting. I also want to do something petulant with this question. Why? What? Okay, my thing about the SAG ensemble nominations, people have talked about this before. Their rules suck ass in that you have to have, and I'm sure there's exceptions to this because...

There's exceptions every year to this. Yes, yes. You have to have a solo screen credit to be in the ensemble. So I'm also going to pull out somebody, like an MVP that didn't actually get this award. There's not a lot for the birdcage. And there's one where there's, I don't think anyone, I'll mention that when I get there. But I want to call out Clistel Falkhart. She is funny in this movie.

Oh, I love Callista Flockhart in that movie. There's very few people. Everybody in this movie is great. Everybody likes to sort of shit on the day. Dan Futterman character because he's like the real villain of the birdcage is the Dan Fuderman character. And like, you're not wrong, but also like, that's kind of a basic take. And I also think he's actually really good in that.

That is, uh... He won a Saga Award for it, but Melissa Flockhart did not. Yeah. Well, yeah, and that's like dumb. That's like stupid. Particularly in the light of the fact that like, by the next year she was on the cover of Time magazine. So, yeah.

Who is your pick for Gosford Park? Um, well, Gosford Park is the one where it's like, Everybody is... Yeah, that's sort of my thing. That really is... The MVP of Gosford Park is the whole cast together. Oh, no, I'm saying everybody pretty much got included in that Sagan lineup, in that ensemble lineup. Nobody really got screwed over.

And, like, if I'd seen Gosford Park more recently, there's probably somebody who has a single throwaway line that's brilliant. That's not in there. But, yeah, I don't have someone who wasn't actually nominated by Sag in the ensemble who's great in the movie. My number one pick is basic, but it's Maggie Smith. And like, I know people kind of now think less of that performance and nomination because of the Downton Abbey of it all. I think it's very different. I think there is a meanness that runs through that movie that I like more about that movie than I don't give a shit about Downton Abbey. And I think she's kind of a core of that where it's like all of these things that like, you know, made us really interested in

Maggie Smith again because of this performance, like, we forget how, like, mean she is in that movie. And it's not just this, like, withering, you know, countess or whatever that, like, has become her typecast. Like, there's an actual meanness there. Yeah. You're not wrong. I sort of have the other side of the coin at the risk of also being basic, and mine is Helen Mirren. I think Helen Mirren sort of unlocks the end of that movie in a way of it. She's sort of the kind of crouching tiger who awaits at the end of that movie. And in a really kind of wonderful way. And, yeah, I think she's fantastic. No Country for Old Men. So No Country for Old Men is the one where I, like, most, like, throughout the prompt. Because, like, it seems dumb to not say Javier Bardem. Like, he's such a towering performance. And it's such a, it's so central to the movie, to the sort of the central menace of the movie.

That, like, without making that performance as iconic as it is, it doesn't work. It wins the Oscar for a reason. Like, nobody needs me being contrarian about Javier Bardem and I have no interest in doing it. That being said, rather than just sort of give the predictable answer, I'm going to say Tommy Lee Jones because...

I said Tommy Lee Jones, too. I also, as much as that movie doesn't work without Javier Bardam playing the Titanic Evil at the center of it, it also doesn't work without Tommy Lee Jones playing the absolutely dumbfounded inability to grasp

this purposeless evil that Bardem represents that's also just as important to what the Coens are trying to do with that movie and he's fantastic and Tommy Lee Jones I think people realized

way too late how great he is in that movie was he nominated by Bath somebody I think nominated him was it not SAG didn't SAG nominate him in supporting I feel like

I think he's the lead of the movie though Well, in as much as I don't know, I feel like Brolin's the lead of that movie, but... Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably both of them, but... Sure. Also, obviously, as a person who loves actresses,

shout out to Kelly MacDonald for also in her big scene at the end, really nailing the theme of the movie, too, and of course... Yeah, she's wonderful in the movie. Coyne Don't Have No Say is one of my favorite lines that she delivers.

And my MVP, who was not included in the SAG lineup is obviously Beth Grant. Oh, just like she had previsioned it. I love her in that movie. One of our finest. Remember, I was able to write about for Vulture last year.

They did their best character actors ranking, and I did the blurb on Beth Grant. And she was incredibly sweet and gracious when she tweeted it out, and she was just very, just nice and, again, just like gracious and humbled by it and it made me feel like you know oh god like why you know you shouldn't be thanking me beth grant my god i should be thanking you for you know for the lady on the bus and speed if nothing else my god

or for you know too long food for all of it yeah exactly she's one of the best all right next movie is spotlight yeah what was all right well i'll do mine because i guess i'm pulling from the main cast and you're pulling from the uh from the i'm doing both i'm doing both um Well, I have a little bit of both, too. Mine from the main cast is Stanley Tucci. I think he rules, and he is also, he sort of, for as much as this movie is, and rightfully so, about the sort of journalistic shoe leather of this team, and I think they work together really well.

I don't really have any weak points. I know a lot of people sort of quibble with Ruffalo, because he got the nomination, but I do. I think Ruffalo is fine. I think Tucci, though, is giving you this sort of. of the zing that you sort of, you know, livens up his,

his portions of the movie. But I also would be remiss if I did not shout out Michael Cyril Creighton for his very small but very crucial role as one of the victims. He was almost my non-sag nominated MVP.

He's one of those actors who, like, you've seen on television before, you've seen in movies before. If you've watched high maintenance, he has a recurring role on that. He was in the, Incredible. He was on Only Murders in the Building. If you watched that this year, he was the neighbor with the cat.

He's really wonderful and fantastic. One of the greatest. Yes. What is your pick? My pick is Michael Keaton of the actual SAG nominated cast. I was kind of baffled that whole season how, and it was kind of mixed up and people didn't know if he was supporting or lead. It's so stupid.

Just nominate him somewhere. Here's my thing about that. He's incredible in that movie, I think, especially in the year after. Birdman where he doesn't win I was so scratching my head why people didn't get it and it's very understated but like I think

the emotional realizations that his character goes through and the like kind of simmering outrage is way more effective and impressive in his performance than it is in Ruffalo's

and like Ruffalo's and like Ruffalo I think is going for like the easy stuff and like Michael Keaton is not. It's like it feels like an actual reckoning and not like a movie reckoning. The thing about Keaton too, and we've talked about this a ton of times when we talk about the 2015 Oscars, is that is a famously weak and shoddy best actor lineup. Michael Keaton is, for as much as that movie is an ensemble movie, Michael Keaton's the lead of that movie. He's your entry point into that movie. He's the head of the team. He's the most prominent.

character he's your lead he was just the third act of the movie is all about both his relationship to the story and his like personal like journey that he goes through in like reporting this story too and like his own failings and he was the runner up for best actor the year before it's insane that they did not campaign him as a lead he absolutely i think would have gotten nominated if they would have campaigned him as a lead i i don't understand the the the And when supporting, he's competing with people from his own movie. He's competing with people from his own movie. And it was also like this attempted chicanery of like campaigning the biggest role in your movie as supporting as if that's going to like give you a leg up.

And that was of course the year, what they were like category fraud was on everybody's mind because of what Rooney Mara and Alicia Vikander were doing in supporting actress. And so I think the underrated one there is that Spotlight tried it. and kind of got Michael Keaton screwed out of a nomination. Mm-hmm. That's like I, you know how I hate the whole category fraud conversation and how annoying I think some people are about it sometimes, where it's just like, there's other things to be outraged about people, but like the thing that does annoy me that, like, Spotlight did,

and it's like, just because you have an ensemble doesn't make everybody supporting in a movie. It's like, it's annoying to me that math, is trying, and Mass isn't going to get anything. But, like, it's annoying to me that Mass is like, well, all of these people are supporting. It's like, no, the answer to that is then they're all a lead. Maybe that's not true for Spotlight, but it is for Mass. Anyway, my non-Sag nominated MVP, I did almost pick Michael Cyril, Cyril Creighton, but I feel like nobody recognized how great Jamie Sheridan is in that movie in a very difficult role.

and he gets like the best scene in the movie opposite Michael Keaton or one of the best scenes in the movie opposite Michael Keaton and it's kind of weird to me that he wasn't included in that SAG ensemble lineup because like it's a large role of all the people who weren't included. That's fair. That's fair. Hidden figures. Yeah, hidden figures. So mine is kind of simple.

It's kind of a coin flip for me between Octavia. Spencer and Taraji, and I'll give it to Octavia. I think she's really fantastic, richly deserved that supporting actress nomination that she got. I think of the three leads, Janelle Monet being in Moonlight that same year and being so great in Moonlight made it very easy for me to just be like, well, no, I liked Janelle Monet better in Moonlight that year. But yeah, it's Octavia for me. I think she rules. It's Janelle Monet for me. There's something about these kind of broadly emotional movies, like a performance that, like, her big scene could be this overplayed, overwrought thing, but instead she just kind of cuts through all of that and is able to express something very plainly in a way that I think is incredibly effective in, like, a broadly emotional movie rather than, you know, doing the type of, like, weepy self-referential, reverential, um, like,

easy acting choice that would just not stand out as much. And then my non-nominated MVP is honestly all the kids in the movie. Yeah, that's sweet.

Like they're just as important in the movie too. They have good scenes with Tarashi. All right. And ending this question with Crash. The thing about Crash is funny enough, I haven't been moved to rewatch Crash in the years since it since I originally saw it. It's been

over 15 years since I've seen it, so it's tough for me to remember, and certainly tough to re-evaluate what I thought of the... I remember at the time thinking, oh, I like Michael Pena's performance in a storyline that really makes me angry. I really feel like the cheapness of putting that child in danger in that scene really kind of boiled my buttons. That's not a phrase.

I don't know where I was going with that. What happens when you boil a button? I get mad about a crash, I guess. I also put in parentheses, Sandra Bullock, question mark, question mark. Tandyway Newton, question mark, question mark. At least I remember Sandy's line reading of I'm so angry and I don't know why, which is another line I think of a lot because of temperamental reasons. And I think I kind of grafted a lot of sympathy towards Tandy Way Newton's performance because of how she's talked so clearly about making that movie and her difficulties in filming those scenes. And I want to sort of give her a little bit of a nod towards that.

But I think my answer is Michael Pena. I mean, this is a movie where, like, regardless of your thoughts on the movie. movie, like, kind of creates a whole spectrum of who is good and who is bad on, like, every performance. I think I would probably fall on Don Sheetle being the best, which is, like, not the character you think about at all. But, like, again, it's that type of thing where it's like, if you can just play an even level, you're probably going to cut through some of the bullshit.

And then my non-nominated MVP, who else but Loretta Devine? mean, oh, see, I love Loretta Devine. I hate what she has to do in Crash, and I don't think she does it particularly well, is my, is my remembrance of her in Crash, at least. Again, it's been a while. Well, I'm always going to pay love and homage to Loretta Divine. I do love her, though. I do love her as an actress. Next question, probably my favorite question that we got um from tyler at 41 years henry fonda has the record for longest gap between acting oscar nominations who do you think has the best chance to tie or break his record uh tyler gave us some options of like terrace stamp lily tomlin candace bergen uh and then some people who could

do it soon like alfrey woodard will be eligible in a few years as with john lithgow and jane fonda Two weeks ago, I would have maybe had a different answer, but I think the answer right now is Rita Moreno. Oh, well, yeah. It would be 60 years. Yeah. We will see, but, like, I think there is a strong enough possibility. Yeah. Certainly, among everybody on this list, she's got the best option to do it right now.

So, yeah, yes. Right now. shamefully, it's not Candace Bergen from last year for a let them all talk. But it does show that she is still giving great work and great acting as of right now. That's where I was sort of looking at this list and I'm like, well, who is sort of working at top of the game? We've seen Alphrey Woodard give a performance very recently that was award worthy. So I think Alphrey's got to be in the conversation. Yeah, I think she's definitely a possibility.

People like Terrence Stamp and Lily Tomlin and Mary Steenbergen are all working a lot, so there's always that possibility. You want to talk about a real bummer, though, if all that Mary Steenbergin is tasked to do in Nightmare Alley is the type of role she's getting, we are in a bad place, give her more to do. She works a lot, though. So that's what I mean. It's just like, I think you're going to have a better chance. I added Goldie Hawn to the list. I know she's re-teaming with Diane Keaton and Bet Midler for a movie coming up that is probably not an awards movie. But if we can get her acting again, she was last nominated in 1980 the same year that Mary Steenberg won. Diane Keaton? No, Goldie Hawn.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. And I also made a note, there is on Barbara Streisand, sorry, licorice pizza. on her IMDB of an untitled Barbara Streisand project that she is, at least has been mentioned enough to have made it onto IMDB, that is supposedly about the tumultuous love affair between Margaret Bork White and Erskine Caldwell, who are photographers, I believe, of note. I don't know if this movie will ever get made, but I will just say that, I will always put Barbara on a list of possibles when she directs her next movie, just because I feel like she deserves. Well, it would have to be an acting nomination. Oh, right. It would have to be an acting nomination. Well, then forget that. I also, though, think if Barbara ever wanted to take a showy supporting role in a big movie, which she might not want to, I think she's, she has the kind of star power that would attract voters.

Yeah. So there's always that possibility. Was she Globe nominated for Meet the Fockers? I don't think so. Here, let me find out when her last Golden Globe nomination was. Was it not the Guiltrip? Was she nominated for the guilt trip? I don't think she... was she?

I think she was nominated in lead for the guilt trip. Please hold. Now I have to scroll all the way down for the Golden Globes because IMDB has punished the Hollywood Foreign Press by demoting them. to also ran status. No, she won the DeMille Award in 2000. Her last competitive nomination for that was as actress in a musical or a comedy for

The Mirror has two faces. Interesting. Yes. So what was she nominated for the guilt trip, if for anything? A Razzie nomination. Fuck off. Yeah, that was her only nomination for the guilt trip is for the Razzie. Boo.

Fuck off. All right. Anyway. Barbara Streisand could be literally horrible in something and the Razzies would nominate her and I'd still tell them to fuck off. Exactly, exactly.

Show some respect. From Daniel, with Brendan Fraser having a comeback recently, what other 1990s actor would you like to see make a prominent comeback? So this is a difficult question because, and not to, you know,

bring sexism into this question, but it's unavoidable. Actors have to Actors have less of a need to have a comeback than actresses do because actors have more of an ability to keep working through getting older. I think actresses tend to run into this thing where the roles sort of dry up. And we like to talk about actresses more. So I wanted to keep it towards actors because I think it's a more difficult question.

All of mine kind of have. have a question mark after them. I think some of the ones that I might have said a few years ago have actually now had a comeback, Michael Keaton being one of them, Andy Garcia being one of them. I had Chris O'Donnell question mark. I had Kerry. Isn't he on some horrible like CBS cop show? Right, but I mean as a movie. He's working. You know what I mean? He's working, but like, give him a movie. See, I took 1990s actor to mean male or female. I didn't necessarily take that use of actor to be gendered. I see. Well, then, fuck me. Because I have

a clear answer. Okay, well, I'm going to finish my list, and then I will Okay, give me the list. Give me the list. Well, whatever. It's Carrie Elway's maybe. Bill Pullman's still working, but like, you know, put him in a movie. My main answer is Joe Montania, because I feel like I haven't seen Joe Montagnia in anything. And it's worth

it to remember that he actually, like, had lead roles in movies in the 1990s, which is something. Anyway, what's yours? well i obviously thought of an actress as i you know that is how that is my hardwiring um and this is a performer who to my understanding doesn't necessarily want to go there and has had like attempts i believe in like tv and theater um but like isn't as interested in being like a star um it's alicia a Silverstone. Because that

Killing of a Sacred Deer performance, if there was like one more scene, I think people would have talked about it a little bit more. And I think she, that like her scene in that movie showed that she's still an incredibly smart incredibly funny

could be very interesting in like auteur movies or like a movie with a very clear point of view. I like, and like, especially like Clueless just had a big anniversary and like people are talking about Clueless and her performance and that and like how it didn't really get the respect to deserve at the time because of what that movie was. I would love to see a Silverstone come back. Yeah, that'd be nice.

From a friend of the podcast, Thomas Farnan Williams, hi Thomas, we love you. With Bergman Island in theaters now and all the love for it on the pod, I wondered if you could do your own version. of the trip Chris and Tony took, where would it be, and for which director? I'm going to give this to you because I couldn't come up with a good enough answer. I mean, some of them I feel like would be basic. I would love to do like Martin Scorsese's New York or like, what was the, oh, I would love like Pedro Al-Motivar to tell me all of the places that inspired him in Spain. Oh, that's lovely.

That's a good answer. Yeah. My best that I could come up with is just like, I'd like to hang out. out with Greta Gerwig in Sacramento. That's about it. Oh, do you remember the first time you drove in Sacramento? Is that the line? I think it is. It's close to it. Anyway, Rent Bergman Island, now

streamable and one of the best films of 2021. From Alex, with the news that production on Sunset Boulevard remake has been indefinitely stalled, what would have been a big Oscar push for Glenn Close now seems to be in Shepardy. Other than Norma Desmond, what would your dream type of role be for Glenn to finally win with and is that the same thing you, as what you would think she would realistically win with? I think it's a great thing that this movie was stalled because, like, Sunset Boulevard

is, I want, like, that type of star treatment for Glenn Close to happen, but Sunset Boulevard is a bad musical. And I understand that she feels an attachment to it. But, like, I feel like that would have been setting people up to have their heart broken again because it's just not a good musical and I don't know if she would win for that. And I feel like we've said this before, like the fastest avenue for Glenn Close to win an Oscar is to be in a best picture frontrunner. Well, I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think I might have agreed with that a year ago, I think the nomination for Hillbilly Elegie kind of made me think all bets are off, and that she could get buzz for anything and could get nominated for

anything, and so long as it's not as bad and as poorly received as Hillbilly Eligy was, she could win for it. If Hillbilly Elogy is 20% better of a movie, I think she wins for that. That's probably true. And so I think, so long as we are still in this sort of moment with her, I don't think it's going to take being in a Best Picture nominee. I think you're not wrong about Sunset Boulevard in that that's such a spotlight of a role and she would have to be in lead.

And I think it's probably going to be a supporting role in a movie that gets enough attention on her. It's obviously not going to be this thing that she did with Milakunas this year. Although there's a little bit of a push for it, which is weird. Well, this is also my thing that I'm like, it couldn't just be anything like you're saying, because there's also Swan Song, which is on Apple, which she's good at, and Mahershal Ali is very good at. but, like, nobody's seen or talked about this movie. Right. I think it's just...

I think it's a non-inity. Something big enough to get a push from a studio. I feel like the role I would want to see her in, A, to possibly have, you know, a second shot at a certain, you know, legend of musical theater. If The Follies movie is actually made, Glenn Close could star in either of those female lead roles. Oh, interesting. And if she gets to play Sally and do losing my mind, that's, that's an express way to her Oscar.

Granted, she sang that song of the Barbara Cook, Lincoln Center Honors. I understand that people think it didn't go well for her. I don't think it's the fault. Wait, who thinks that? I've seen some people be like, she's not in tempo with the music. Oh, fuck off. It's the orchestra. She's so good on that performance.

Oh, I'm mad. I agree. I'm mad. Granted, anybody who is doing a Barbara Cook's version of that song is, I'm sorry, the version of the song, anybody who would have had to perform that song for Barbara Cook in front of Barbara Cook is at a disadvantage. It's not her fault. I don't know, I'm no authority on Follies, even though I've seen it on stage. I saw it when Bernadette Peters played that role. And I remember there's a point where she says, I'm Sally Duran, I'm 40 years old, and I burst out laughing.

And I was not supposed to. I mean, it's displaced in time. Sure. Okay. So I guess. And Maldus Staunton just played that. I think it's different on stage than in a movie. I think in a movie, having a disparity between a character's age and an actress's age shows up more.

But I'm willing to be, you know, proved right now. I understand. I think if that movie actually happens, it would be more interesting to have performers the age of Glenn Close. A Folly's movie would make $2 at the box office is the other thing. I don't know if it would matter. Oh, fuck off. No, I'm not relishing that, Chris. I am feeling fairly depressed about that fact.

But, like, nobody, like, that movie would make no money. Like, given the fact that Westside story is underperforming, like... We'll see how it does at the end of the day. I don't know if there's movies that during the pandemic that have actually legged out, but we'll... I'm not wrong. I don't think that deserved to fuck you. Like, I think I'm, like, kind of on target with that and, you know...

I understand. I understand. From Emily, since we're talking about musicals, what do you think is the actual best song to win? best original song. I have a few answers for these. I liked this question. I liked sort of going through the list.

I do love this question. What people don't realize is that there's actually a lot of Christmas standards that won best original song and were nominated. I avoided those because that feels unfair. I didn't. I think White Christmas is one of the best songs ever. Like, I think we are in Christmas season. There's no way I was not going to put White Christmas on my list.

I did, I pulled a five, and I think I could pull a best from that five. What are your five? Over the Rainbow. Uh-huh. When you wish upon a star. Uh-huh. From, thank God it's Friday, last dance. Uh-huh.

Beauty and the Beast. Uh-huh. And I'm sorry, I am what I am. I will always be this person. My heart will go on. My heart will go on, I definitely strongly considered. Um, Beauty and the Beast I considered. Uh, I am.

had a top six. I guess if we can disqualify Christmas, if we are going to be Scrooge is about it, then fine. My top five, I also have Last Dance. The way we were is on my list. I think that's a beautiful song, and obviously I wanted to have a Marvin

Hamlish on mine. I thought about it. Marvin Hamlish-Mish. I am a cheeseball, so I fucking love FlashDance. What a feeling. I think it's a bop. I think it's so good. I'm so glad that's an Oscar winner. I also am a cheeseball and love Carly Simons Let the River Run, which

I almost did that. It will keep me watching through the end credits of Working Girl every time I see that on TV. And if I'm going to get a little timely about it, and I deeply wish he had been there to accept this award, Stephen Sondheim's Oscar for Sooner or Later, I always get my man, as performed by Madonna in Dick Tracy. We don't have a Stephen Sondheim Oscar speech. is a top-notch best song winner. It's so, so, so good. So my winner,

again, I'm just going to be that person. It's over the rainbow. I realize it's probably a basic choice, but I think it's the right choice. I mean, sometimes the basics. What do I think is the best win? Like, I'm so happy. I always pull this one out that I love

that this song won this category. It's Last Dance. Yeah. I'm glad that Adana Summer song won. best song. Did she win? Was she a songwriter on that? I don't know. It'd be nice to think that Donna Summer has an Oscar or had an Oscar when she was alive. But anyway, regardless, yes, I love that. I love that win. Not a whole, we didn't blow out any recent wins. If I was going to pull out. I like some recent winners, but yeah, not when we stack it up against the glory days of that category.

right like of recent winners i would probably say remember me from cocoa is the best one i'd probably say skyfall but yeah there's a lot of like iconic wins that i'm like actually i would have voted for the other one that it uh-huh like shallow nominated for yeah well shallow was the only one nominated for oh but that was the other one that was nominated for i thought you just meant another song well there's plenty of that which like yes i do actually think always remember this way is the Stars Born song that should have won.

No, but like, fame. I don't think fame should have won, but out here on my own, if that was the winner, could maybe be on my list. Yeah, I think that's a good call. Hey, listeners, guess what? We went super long on our mailback episode,

and we're going to give you a special treat, we're going to split it across two episodes. So that is just the first half of the mailbag. Please come back next week when we start off January with the back half of the mailbag. Lots of fun, more questions coming. But for now, at least, that is the first part of our episode. This is the Dune Part 1.

We are going into the... They don't end the movie on Iraqis, right? Yeah, don't they? Either way. Yes. Joe just killed someone to prove that he's the Messiah. Right. The sandworm showed up. It wanted to hang out.

It had an opinion on who should be a frontrunner for Best Actress this year. It's a whole thing. Weirdly, the sandworm was rooting for Becky Ferguson. I feel like, you know, that's supporting your friend. You always have to throw a vote to a friend, right? The sandworm started singing for Galicious, and we interpreted that as being support for Becky Ferguson and Dune, and honestly, probably rightly so. But for now, that's our episode, or at least the first half of the mailback episode. Come back next week.

We'll finish it out before getting back into more movies and more autopsies. If you want more of This Had Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this had oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow us on Twitter at Had underscore Oscar Buzz. Joe, where can the listeners find more of you? Yeah, I'll be on Twitter at Joe Reed. I'll be on letterboxed as also Joe Reed. Reed, in both cases, spelled R-E-I-D. And you can find me on Twitter and letterboxed at KrispyFile.

That's F-E-I-L. We'd like to thank Kyle Cummings in his fantastic artwork. Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Mevious for their technical guidance. Please remember to rate, like, and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever else you get those podcasts. Five-star review in particular really helps us out with Apple podcast visibility. So write us for review and tell us who else you think the Dune Sandworm is voting for and best supporting actress besides Becky Ferguson.

That's all for this week. And we hope you'll be back next week for more buzz. Bye. You know,