This Had Oscar Buzz - Mail Bag: Vol. 2

Episode Date: January 3, 2022

And we’re back with the conclusion of our mailbag! This time, we are talking about a few Oscar What Ifs: what new categories should Oscar adopt? what if a different actress had won Supporting Actress in 2005? what if there was a Best Actress season of Survivor? We also answer your questions about the podcast, … Continue reading "Mail Bag: Vol. 2"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. No, I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I'm from Canada. I'm from Canada water. Jack Nicholson, Jessica Lang, in the motion picture that Playboy magazine calls

hotter than any uncurbed passion since last tango in Paris. The postman always rings twice. All right, come on, huh? Come on. Come on. Hello, and welcome to the This Head Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that is still male nasty. Every week on this had Oscar buzz

we'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations but for some reason or another it all went wrong. The Oscar hopes died and we are here to perform the autopsy. We are back this week

with our second installment of our mail bag. We had so many questions. The episode was so overloaded. We decided to split it into two to make it easier for you guys. Yeah. As the last episode, remember just to, like, set the stage for where we were at.

Usher showed up. It was a large celebration. Cardi was there, cussing out the bouncer. Right. And then the bottom fell out. And now we are here in a harsher financial situation. Oh, God. I have a baby.

Joe and I haven't spoken for a long time. Right. I'm working retail now. It's a whole thing. Club can't handle me. Just started and we're back together. We are very big believers here in starting the year the same way we ended a year. So we closed out the year with a mailbag episode and we're starting the year with the second half of that very mailbag episode.

So happy 2022, y'all. And here's a nice fun music cue to blend the audio to the next episode because we didn't prepare to go for that long. Enjoy. So from Tad, Tad asks us, what do you think are the best and worst Oscar winning performances in each of the acting categories. If you need to narrow it, let's just say the last 20 years. We're going to stick to that, A, for time, but also, you know, for, like, things that we relate. Okay, let's go supporting actor first. Supporting actor is my strongest opinion, and I've advanced it on this podcast before. I think Tim Robbins is actively bad in Mystic River, and he... I also picked

him as worst. He kind of holds that movie back more than anything else, and it's too bad, because it's not like I hate Tim Robbins, but... And I don't hate Mystic nor do I but I think it's a bad performance and I think it misjudges that character in some crucial ways yeah yeah and it's also just like so like one eye squinting and one eye like huge like the whole movie and like that's not what that movie is and he's the movie doesn't have a problem with him being like that and weirdly no one else did like and he swept the awards that year which also if it was I would maybe feel a little bit less annoyed by it if other people in that field that year had won stuff, but nobody else did because he won everything.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. My best is Mahershal Ali for Moonlight. Oh, it's best and worst. I only went and did worst. Oh, no. All right, give me a second. Give me a second. Just from turn of the century. Yeah, just from turn of the century. All right, hold on. Please hold. Well, you're pulling a best. This is maybe the one that, like there was less competition for best though I think is the like Mahershal Ali was like the obvious one to jump out at me as best but I think there's of the four acting categories probably the least range between the worst and the best with Tim Robbins being probably my obvious choice yeah not an out I wouldn't go so far to say as an outlier but like of the ones I would have considered for worst he was like what felt like the most obvious to me. I think they actually, the winners for supporting actor in the last 20 years are, I think the level is high considering how much I tend to think of supporting actor

as the worst of the acting categories. I thought this too. It's like in terms of our interest, you would think we would feel more strongly that it's a lot of bad winners. Right. I think you're probably right about Mahershala. The two I will bring up as runners up maybe. bardom in No Country for Old Men

We talked about it a second ago And then Chris Cooper in adaptation I think is tremendously wonderful and good Yes Supporting Actress All right what's yours You do that while I look up my best While you pull the best

Okay I'll keep doing this Okay so supporting actress Obviously this is the category Where I feel like I'm falling on a sword Because Supporting Actress has some of the I think it's the hardest to pick a winner of the best because, uh, well, let me just, let me just say the one that I think is the worst. I feel like people are going to say that I'm being mean, but this is a performance I've

never liked. And even when I've revisited this movie, more times than I thought I would have the first time I saw it, I'm just like, the fuck, man, I hate this performance. It's Melissa Leo in The Fighter. And it's not just because I think Amy Adams is so, much better than she is, but, like, Melissa Leo and the fighter is to Jared Leto in House of Gucci to me, and that, like, it's just, like, I understand why somebody would think it's good, but it's just, it's doing so much, and it maybe doesn't need to, and I just, I don't like the performance. I don't dislike the performance And I think on a good day I would support her nomination for it I also really love Jared Letto

In House of Gucci We don't have to talk about it I don't think he's I think he is better than Melissa Leo is He is the only person in that movie Besides Well Gaga and Al Pacino Those three are the ones who are giving me

What I Want out of House of Gucci Nobody else is Adam Driver is not at fault, Adam Driver innocent, they have given him all of the worst parts of that movie. But anyway, I feel like Jared Leto in that movie

is trying to do something metatextual of like, in order to sell the audience on what a freak outlier in the family this character is, I have to be a Mario brother. I have to be doing this absurd thing. And I think there's a lack of trust on the audience.

And I think it's like, okay, but the movie's not on that level. But like in that context, I think he's fine. Weirdly more fun in a way that, like, I would never have thought after watching that trailer and whatever. And I think he, I had fun every second he was on screen. And I think that that is my, that is my case for him. Anyway. My best is really hard, especially because there's like,

wins that I feel like I've stood up for that like I do believe are amazing like Jennifer Hudson and like we forget how great Penelope Cruz is things like that and it's like we're over boyhood but Patricia Arquette is incredible in boyhood and like I mean Viola Davis and fences but like my winner is between Monique and Catherine Zeta Jones I would be willing to let you sway me towards one or the other. Wait, sorry. Kevin Zeta Jones and who? Monique.

Keffin Zeta Jones is also my, one of my top two. So maybe we can meet in the middle there. My top two are Kevin Zeta Jones and Tilda Swinton and Michael Clayton. With I'm probably leaning towards Tilda because I just think it's a miracle that that performance, and she specifically has an Oscar and good for her, I mean, I'm a slut for Michael Clayton, so... I do love that answer. I'm just going to say I have a tie. Oh, it's a tie. Hello, Ingrid Bergman. Um, yeah. I'm allowed to have this tie. I don't usually... My worst supporting actress, um, I mean, I don't think she's so bad in it, but I refuse to say

Renee Zellweger, so I'm going to say Alicia Vikander and the Danish girl just because I just wouldn't have awarded that performance in that movie. There's no universe where I would have awarded that performance. Of that five, too. Of that five especially, but just like in the grand scheme of things, it's just weird

that that performance is an Oscar-winning one. Yeah, I think it's deeply fine, but like, I don't think she's bad. She's not bad. She's not bad. Sure, sure, sure. All right, what else? Best actor. Best actor, I mean, I wanted to be a troll, but I couldn't.

To me, sort of almost by default, it's Rami Mollick. I think best actor winners of the last 20 years is I don't love hardly any of them, but I don't hate hardly any of them except. And so, like, I'm, of the people who hated Rami Mollock's performance, I was probably the most mild on it. I think I was more middle of the road than anybody else. but, like, there's no way to make a case for anybody else but him on that list. I agree.

Who is your fave? Daniel Day Lewis, and there will be blood. I think that's mine, too, and I'm almost... I almost went for Philip Seymour Hoffman. Me too. Because I think people, A, underrate that movie, but, like, I think when people talk about that win, they're like, oh, but it's a true story, it's a real person, blah, blah, blah, but like there's layers of that that like if you divorce the movie from the like true story of it all and that he's playing a very famous real person like it's still an incredibly interesting and layered performance yeah i don't think ultimately it's i abandoned my child i abandoned my child i almost feel like i'm capitulating to film twitter when i acknowledge that daniel day lewis and there will be blood is probably my choice um i almost feel like i'm capitulating to film twitter when i acknowledge that daniel de louis and there will be blood is probably my choice um i

I advanced the notion the other day that George Clooney should have won that year for Michael Clayton. And I got a lot of, like, really weirdly incredulous. Do you really think that he was better than Daniel Day Lewis? Yes, I do. It is possible for somebody to believe that somebody was better than Daniel Day Lewis and there will be good. I can go with it, too. And to be honest, if George Clooney had won, he might have still won this question. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. If George Clooney had won the Oscar for Michael Clayton, he would absolutely be my answer for this question for best. Yes, totally. Yeah. 100%. Okay, big category, best actress. Oh, here's where I most wanted to be a troll. Do you know where I would have, in what direction I would have wanted to troll?

I feel like I'm going to have some pearl clutching to, but if you're clutching your pearl to my worst answer, I don't want people to watch this movie again, but just watch the movie again. I'm right. The worst is Merrill. Yeah, well, and this is why I most wanted to troll because I knew you were going to say Merrill. Like, I guess... And you wanted to say it was the best? No. Oh, God. No, I wouldn't say that.

I just would say she's not the worst, which feels like enough of a troll, particularly in the company I'm in right now. No, I wanted to say Marion Cotillard for Leveon Rose, a performance I hate. Oh. I really hate that. I think that's a bad movie. It's a dumb movie. It's a bad win. I know all gay people have now all of a sudden come around to thank you life, thank you love speech as some sort of, again...

There must be some angels in this city. Whatever. I think it's a bad performance. I think it's kind of embarrassing. Like, anybody who watches that speech should be forced to actually watch Lovianne Rose. Like, it's the fact that she beat Julie Christie and away from her is stupid. The fact that she beat Laura Linney and the savages. Sure.

All of that. Like, it's just, it's, it's dumb. Um, I don't like it. It's, it's, I'll say it. You said Merrill, so, like, Merrill's on the record there. I'll say Marion Cotier, bad. My favorite also feels kind of basic, but like, it's Julie. I gave myself a minute to be like, am I just going to stump for somebody else, or am I just going to say it?

And it's also Julia Roberts. I mean, like. There's so many great actors winners that I mean, you know I love Nicole in the Hours. You know I love Natalie and Black Swan. You know I love Julianne Moore and still Alice. But like, it's Julia Roberts and Aaron Brockwood. It's the most iconic. I mean, like, I think Olivia Coleman in The Favorite is a performance.

we're going to be talking about for fucking decades, too. And, like, I'm sorry, it's Julia Roberts. It's Julia Roberts. Would be, like, top five winners in the category of all time. It's called an iconic performance, Ed. Like, that's just sort of, that's, that's, that's, that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at with that. We'll talk about our guest spots on screen drafts, but go back to our best actress, screen drafts.

Definitely. Definitely. Yes. Moving right along, again, to House of Gucci and Best Actress. Rebecca asks, what is going on with Gaga and House of Gucci? And can you talk about the current Best Actress race? This question came in before she won New York critics. If she hadn't won New York critics, I would feel like, no, no, that's not happening.

Like, it's too divisive. But I feel like, you know, I wrote about for Vanity Fair last season with Glenn Close getting a Razziness. and an Oscar nom for Hillbilly Elegie, and what an anomaly that was, and I feel like it could happen with House of Gucci. Do you think, though, do you think there's enough people calling it a terrible performance? Considering the Razies and the type of shit that they do, they're going to do that. They're going to do that because she could be nominated for an Oscar for it. I do feel like the New York Film Critics Award was, like, 40% trolling.

But, like, I also feel like the level. of respect for that performance is a lot higher than I kind of expected. And I just, I think the Razies go for the easy targets. And I think because the critical respect for her has been so high, I wonder if that makes her less of an easy target. I wonder. I mean, like, all of the acting races do kind of seem in flux in a way that I find really satisfying. And I think best actress specifically, the people that I think are safest for a nomination I don't think we'll win

but then there's people that I think could just as easily win and not be nominated if that makes sense. I think the safest to a nomination are going to be Nicole Kidman and Olivia Coleman but I don't see them winning.

I maybe sometimes feel like Nicole Kidman has a chance at winning. I would agree with that. I don't think I see Olivia winning. I think if being the Ricardo's had gotten a better critical reception initially, maybe. I still think the Academy is going to love it. I think it's a best picture nominee.

Oh, for sure. Absolutely for sure. Which I don't think the Lost Otter will be. I think it has a chance. And I don't think Spencer will be either. I don't think Spencer is going to be a best picture nominee. I think, I mean, like, it feels like the heat around Kristen Stewart has died down but could very easily come back.

I agree. But it's not the type of thing like Renee Zellweger. where Renee Zellweiger never really had an active challenger? Yes, agreed. Yeah, that was the biggest thing. And I also think people are underestimating that the Academy is going to be weirded out by that movie. Like, I don't know. And it's like, I love Kristen Stewart.

I think that movie is fine. Like, I don't have major complaints against it. But like... If Nicole Kidman were to beat Kristen Stewart, though, if that ends up being the race and Nicole Kidman ends up winning, It would be odd, although not unprecedented, to see the performance, two performances of people playing real people. It would be odd to see the performance that is a less successful mimicry beat the more success. Like, I think Kristen Stewart looks more the part for Diana, for as unexpected as that turned out to be, that she would. I think people still get hung up on Nicole not looking like Lucy L. Paul.

I don't think that's a problem in that movie. I think it helps that movie. I don't think the movie is interested in it at all. Right. But I also think what people need to realize is on-screen Lucy and off-screen Lucy were not the same thing. But this also makes me think of the Pablo Lorraine thing with Natalie Portman and Jackie. is so many people had to be, like, directed to old clips of Jackie Kennedy to be like, no, that's how she talked. And, like, I think it's a lot of work to sort of force every voter to see that.

It also probably helps Kidman that she is the best thing about the movie. I know there's going to be some people that are gassed by that. But, like... She is the best thing about that movie. And there's other things to talk about in Spencer than Kristen Stewart. Yeah, but I don't think the other things in Spencer are necessarily... All good. I didn't hate Spencer. I was more mixed than anything else. I think it's a very peculiar movie in a way that intrigues me in a lot of ways, but I think... But it's going to put off

an academy member. Yeah, yeah, I agree. At least enough of them. Yeah. What do you think the Oscar best actress lineup will be? Predict it right now. All right. Um, I mean, it's really surprising to me that Lady Gaga is seeming as likely as she is right now, because I just did I didn't see it. I think Kristen Stewart's a nominee. I think Kidman's a nominee. I think Coleman is a nominee. I mean, Jessica Chastain is certainly courting the Jeremy Strong vote if he has a vote in the academy right now. Is he an academy member? I don't know. We should look that up. We should see. Honestly, I feel like the Rachel Ziegler momentum is really strong right now. I wouldn't have said that at all a week ago. But I think, like, I think she's really moving on strong. I think her more so than Alana Haim, actually. This is, all right, Stuart, Kidman, Coleman, Gaga, and I'm going to say Penelope Cruz as a wishful thinking. I say Stuart, Segler, Coleman, Kidman, and honestly, Penelope Cruz. Nobody is talking about that movie right now, but this is the same thing that people were saying about the father last year. I think this is why I kind of wish.

Sony Classics is primed to push that movie. They know what they're doing with a certain type of movie. they know who to go for for a movie like that. And, like, they've done it with Amor, they did it with the father. That's not the same type of movie, but, like, it's in the same release strategy as those movies. I think they know what they're doing. I think it could come on very strong, late, or at the very least, they're going to get Penelope Cruz the nomination. I would love for one of the remaining critics groups who haven't voted yet to pick Penelope Cruz as their winner.

Please, for the love of God, it's a year. I know we're not supposed to vote based on affecting the Oscar race, and I agree with that, and I think that's fine. I still would have wished that New York film critics instead of, like, Gaga winning, you know, we all tweeted it, and we all had a good little, you know, reaction to it. But I think Penelope Cruz is objectively better. Like, she just is, and, um... Performance of her career. Yeah. Like, and, like, you want to honor her for her, you know, her...

collaboration with El Moldovar. Yeah. But I don't know. I seem to be in the like extreme positivity for that movie in a way that I thought more people would be. But like, I am happy to carry the time. Most people still haven't seen it. Honestly. Like, it's still going to, it's, I think there is, there is a chance.

I think it's the same path that Antonio Banderas walked, although Antonio Banderas won a Critics Award for it. Right. We'll see. The thing about Rachel Ziegler, I will say, even though we, shouted out Rita Moreno and people shouldn't be doubting Ariana DeBose's chances either. But like I do kind of feel like maybe Rachel Ziegler has the best shot. Well, we'll definitely see. Because like

Ariana DeBose is starring opposite, you know, the Oscar winner for the role that she's playing. Rita Moreno is actually kind of a small part even though she gets a lot of the emotional payoff in the movie but like Natalie Wood wasn't nominated before right and like you know I think I think she has less obstacles I will say that I weirdly think the fact that Rita Moreno is in the conversation for this West Side story helps Ariana DeBose in that way because it feels like you can give Ariana a nomination and still give Rita Moreno a nomination and not feel like you're slating Rita Moreno by honoring her her newer version, right? And I think that's highly possible. I think it's, I would say, as of right now, I would think it's more likely that both Ariana DeBos and Rita Moreno get nominated

than Rachel Ziegler gets nominated, although I do think it's close. I also just want to throw in one more name. I would feel more strongly about it if she wins a critics prize. I think Renata Renzv for Worst Person in the World is not out of the discussion. No. You don't think so. I agree with you. Oh, you agree that she's not out of the discussion.

Yeah. No, the thing is, I think critics are going to like that movie more than the Academy does. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. But it's going to be in the foreign language film conversation. And I think the Academy has a more of an awareness. And we're in the screenplay conversation, too. Yeah.

And I think the Academy just has more of an awareness of the finer points of foreign language films than they did a decade or so ago. Next question from Stephanie. What's your favorite reaction to an Oscar win by a fellow nominee? More specifically, your favorite happy reaction and favorite inability to hide their obvious disappointment and or anger. My answers are so basic. I just have to throw them out there. Mine are too. I bet you we have the same ones.

I bet that they're the same ones. I mean, they're legendary and iconic. It's Meryl basically leaping to the rafters when share wins. Agreed. That's mine. Yep. And then disappointed. I mean, it's iconic.

It's, um, fucking, um, oh my God, I just went into a hole. Wait, I'll say mine then. It's Samuel L. Jackson when Martin Lando won. Oh, are we different there? Like, he does say shit. Like, he does say shit. Martin Landau. Or Michael Keaton putting his speech away, too.

Oh, yeah. That was yours. No, mine is Sally Kirkland. Oh, and that same one. That's same table. That's so funny. Yeah. I mean, that's very good.

No, but I think absolutely it's streep. though. Streep is so tickled and delighted. And again, it's the kind of happy you can be when you already have two Oscars. So it's like, but obviously they, you know, they were very good friends. And before she basically spent her career going to the Oscars

to lose. Right. Right. Obviously they were very good friends. Obviously, Merrill had a great impact on Share when they were on Silkwood together. She thanks her in the speech. She calls her Mary Louise Streep. It's a wonderful moment. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah.

Samuel L. Jackson, I think it's so genuine. It's so, again, like, he really, he wanted to win. He thought he deserved to win. I think I would maybe feel a little bit differently if I didn't think, I mean, whatever. Martin L. L. was very good in Ed Wood, and I think he probably, I would have voted for Samuel L. Jackson ahead of him. I think that was probably, and probably deserved to get nominated in lead alongside John Travolta.

But, I would nominate him in lead over Travolta. I get the whole Travolta narrative. I would have nominated them both, but Samuel higher than Travolta. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's also, I think that's like, I don't know. I could see a world in which my five best actor nominees that year are two from Pulp Fiction and two from Shawshank Redemption.

Because I genuinely think that Freeman and Robbins are both fantastic in that movie. And then maybe like Paul Newman. Yeah. from Andrew, if you could only see vote totals for one year, what would it be at why? And if within that year you could see vote totals for one category, what would the category be? I feel like I'm just coming through with basic answers, but like the 0-1 actress race is... Oh, interesting. I mean, like, and it's no slight against Holly Berry, but like when there's so many different wins happening in that season, and I do, when I think of like, what was the close?

race that I can recall in my lifetime, it has to be that best actress race. And I just want to see where the split is. Yeah. Mine tend to be all a decade apart, actually. Um, 1999, I would have really loved to have seen how far ahead Roberto Benini was and best actor ahead of Ian McKellen and Nick Nolte and where that split sort of fell. Um, I also would have really like to have seen how close Kathy Bates got to beating Judy Dench and supporting actress that year. I think then jump ahead 10 years for 2008. I, A, would have loved to see who finished second to Kate Winslet, whether it was Streep, which it probably was, or how well Hathaway actually performed in that category. But I also mostly want to see what the nomination tallies were,

because I want to see if I'm right that Winslet had sufficient votes to get to get double nominated to get triple nominated i think she right to have two nominations for the reader i think she finished in the top five twice for actress and in a supporting uh once for uh for the reader is my i think you're probably i i would put money on you being right and then 10 years after that in 2018 i really sort of have a dark fascination with seeing just how far ahead green book was and what and what the order of runners up that year were it wouldn't make me happy. I think second place was Bohemian.

And I just would want to know that, just to know, just to sort of, and maybe I'd be Yeah, like, I was trying not to come up with an answer that would be dark, because, like, I do want to know how close Brokeback Mountain was to Crash. Yeah. Crash. Because I ultimately think Crash had a decent. Here's my question to you. Was Brokeback closer to Crash in Best Picture than Paul Hagas was to Angus was to Angus?

and director. Yes, I definitely think Angley probably had a stronger... I would agree with you. I just wanted to get that back. I think that's pretty easy. Yeah, okay. From Elisao, I loved your screen drafts episodes,

especially with Best Actress Films of the 21st Century. What films would you draft from the slate of Best Actor Films of the 21st Century? Love this question. I feel like if we... if and when we go back to screen drafts, we love those guys. We do. Shout out to Clay and Ryan. I feel like this is not the draft that we would pick because, like, the movies suck.

I think there are seven clear choices here. I think seven stand out from the crowd, although one of them, again, I'm really tempted to just piss off all the Paul Thomas Anderson fanboys and say something like the last King of Scotland ahead of there will be blood. but, like, I am forced to admit that there will be blood is one of the seven best in that and fine. I would probably try to veto it if you played it just to make you play it again. But, you know, just to burn my veto. Remember, when we have a regular episode, I have two veto stacked against you, my friend.

I know. Yeah, I think, like, that would probably be obvious. Like, for me, the seven that I have listed are Lincoln, Capote, there will be blood, milk, which we didn't draft in the queer draft. So I feel like that would be easy for us to put it on there Because like as noted we did not vote for the hours in our career draft Because we put it for our best actress one Manchester by the sea Last King of Scotland and Training Day

Oh Or what I pulled Your last two are different than mine I have I have varied opinions of Training Day But like I do also feel like that's a good best actor win It's a good best actor win The last time I saw it though I didn't like it as much

as a movie. I think Alaska King of Scotland is probably my eighth. I have the father ahead of both of those movies. I have issues with the father. I mean, I have issues with Training Day, too, but I have aesthetic issues with the father. And I also, as you know, am a much bigger fan of Darkest Hour than you, and we can leave it at that, yeah.

But yeah, mine is, it's Capotee, there will be blood. In no particular order, by the way. Capote, there will be blood, Milk, Lincoln. Manchester, Darkest Hour, the Father. cool uh brady asked which if any overdue narratives do you think have resulted in oscar wins for performers best or most iconic work i like i have a very i like this question i love this question because like you somewhat have to think of it though i did have an immediate answer that rings clear as a bell that i don't think i do too applies as well to anybody else and i'm curious if you have the same one so i want to go through my runners up quickly i think there's a case Well, okay, it's not Susan Sarandon, but Susan Sarandon ends up winning for a very, very strong performance. It is not one of her most iconic performances, especially as we are now 15 years down, or 25 years. Jesus Christ, down the line.

But she has nothing to, you know, hang her head about. We've talked ad nauseum on this podcast and others about how much we stick up for Julianne Moore's performance and still Alice. But I think it would be hard to say that that's her best. ever, and most iconic. I think somebody who is more enthused about beginners than I could probably make the case for Christopher Plummer in that one. I also want to make a stab at, I don't think scent of a woman is Al Pacino's best work, but if we're including the term iconic in there, it is really hard to deny.

Unfortunately, yes. It's really hard to deny that scent of a woman is one of his most iconic performances when we talk about the iconography of Al Pacino. Like, you'd, I understand your aesthetic objections to that movie, but I don't think I'm wrong. I will say, though, that my answer, and I think we might have the same one, is Shirley McLean for Terms of Endearment, who waited so long for that and ended up winning for It's in her speech.

It is. I feel like this ceremony has been longer than my career. If that's not her best performance, it's one of her top three. And it very well may be her best. most iconic, I mean. Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. Yes. No question.

Shirley McLean. Do you have any others you wanted to throw out there? No, you did a pretty good job. Yeah, yeah. Also from friend of the podcast, do we need to come up with our, people need to stop saying friend of the pod. Oh, I very much object. I object to the terminology of calling a podcast a pod so much.

I really, really can't stand it. So, yeah, I am. I feel like also post-pandemic, like Pod took on a. different meaning. Yeah, good point there. Yes. But yeah, something else besides friend of the pod, please, because, yeah, I hate that. But Brian, we love Brian for 10.

I also thought of this that our list, I thought of the other day our listeners could be called voters. Like they're Oscar voters. Okay. People kept calling us like thobbies or thobbers. Sobbers is weird. No. No. Yeah.

And something like, like heart thobbs is too sweaty and corn. I like the idea of voters. Okay. We'll see what we'll run up, run voters up the flagpole. We'll see how that happens. Okay. Back to Brian's question.

We love you, Brian. Now that the sound categories have mercifully been combined into one award, which award would you add to the ceremony and who would be your top five winners of the past 20 years if that category existed? We had a lot of questions about new categories, but Brian really narrowed in on some specificity here. All right. You go first and I'll follow up. We definitely have the same category.

Well, we don't because I pivoted. You pivoted? This is like you. This is like your topic. So I'm going to rely on you to tell me what I'm forgetting, what I'm overlooking. You can throw them out. I'm going to throw out some things that I would nominate in this category and then I'll give you my five best winners. All right.

All right. I mean, it should be a choreography Oscar. There should be a choreography Oscar. Like, there absolutely should be. It's weird. Like, it used to be a category way back in the day. And it's weird that, like, it never was brought back up even in, like, we're giving Oscars to fame and flash dance.

Why would they not do that? Anyway, some things I would nominate, Susperia. Oh, yeah. Go back to our episode on Susperia. Right. Billy Elliott. Yes. Center stage.

These are a lot of dance movies, but still. Black Swan, you got served, dog tooth, which has a weird dancing. Oh, that's not a bad one. That's definitely not a bad one. I mean, bring it on. I thought of some movies that I'm like, there's great dancing scenes, but is that choreographed or is that, like, you know, in the moment. Like Botra Vai or like Itchamama Tambien. Iconic dancing, but probably not choreographed.

Yeah. Here are five winners I would give out. obviously both magic mics sure yes I mean no brainer absolutely step up okay I just went with the first one I haven't seen other stepups I know that I'm a people are like actually step up that's me I am a step up connoisseur I will say of the step up I'll see the other ones of the step up step up step up 3d is the one you want like it's that's that's top tier step up but yeah I'm glad that you threw one of them in because yes two less obvious ones

that I feel very strongly about first of all I'm just going to jump in before I say these two La La Land is not nominated While La Land didn't need a fifth nomination we stand Mandy Moore But at this point I feel like Mandy Moore has

An Oscar for choreography already If it exists But also Walla Land doesn't need a 15th nomination And also like People criticize the dancing ability Of its stars for good reasons but that's also narratively the point, whatever, not La La Land.

The two that I feel very strongly about, as winners. Hail Caesar and Climax. I mean, Climax is the right answer. Hell Caesar, I love two. Hell Caesar is just that one. I mean, I guess for both of those, you're giving it for one performance. I watched the opening, what is it, six minutes, five minutes of Climax. a million times so often i watch it i was the psycho like setting it to different songs and sending

it to you it's here's the thing i would set other scenes to that song also i think it works in both ways i think you could you can meme that in two different ways you could set black swan to the super nature score from climate i want a better standalone version of that song i think the the climax specific version because they know super nature is its own song but like the climax specific mix of that doesn't exist as like a standalone track on Spotify? Yes, it does. Oh, it does. It does.

Please, it was on my Spotify wrapped that year. I feel like it's not the exact version, though. I think it's like a slightly altered version. I could be wrong. Anyway, it rules. It's so good. What did I miss? You are the choreography connoisseur.

Well, this was the thing as to why I pivoted was I really, I would need to Karina Longworth this question. I really would need to like... I kind of felt like I needed weeks for this question. Exactly. I'm just not prepared to just sort of like throw things out there. I mentioned the fact that, you know, it should be step-up 3D of the step-ups. Climax is right. I would throw in Francis Haugh because I think the choreography of her dance at the end of that movie is really, really crucial to how that movie ends, the note that that movie ends on, the fact that it is very good and pure, but also not like great.

the fact that it's sort of like is still a work in progress and she is still a work in progress makes so much is so crucial to what that movie is. I would also throw in just something like the hairspray

movie. I think the choreography in that movie is like really fantastic. Oh fuck. I should have made that a winner. I mean it's up there. It's I I need to like, I really need to dig into this. Maybe we'll bring it up the next time we talk about a musical on this or something like that.

But I think we all, I think those are all, you know, very, very good options, very good questions, very good answers to that question. So I pivoted. I, obviously we talk about ensemble as a something that could be possibly a casting award for the Oscars. A lot of people were like, what about best casting? My, my rebuttal to best casting is like, are they just going to fucking give it to Nina Gold and Telsie every other year? I think you need to find a way to make it an honor for the casting director, but also the actual cast, sort of what SAG does. In that case, something like Rachel getting married, something like I Heart Huckabee's. I also feel like something like Gone Girl, which is, like, every single role in that, and you're casting from a popular book, so it's a big challenge there. And I think every single role is cast perfectly in that movie. And even in like, in some really interesting ways, nobody would have ever been like, oh, yes, cast Tyler Perry and Neil Patrick Harris and Casey Wilson and, you know, all the sort of smaller roles in that. It's a perfectly cast movie. But is that also like the choice of David Fincher instead of a casting director? Is the other wrinkled to- That is the challenge to making it a category is who are you giving an award for and are they the person? I acknowledge all of that. The other one, and this probably has similar challenges, because, like, as this ultimately, what the, you know, the work of the director.

But I've always wanted an award for non-original music or soundtrack work in a movie and find a way... Like a soundtrack supervisor. Sort of. Something we're like, come what may, doesn't get nominated for Mulan Rouge as an original song because it was originally written for another purpose. And yet, and so much of Moulin Rouge is about repurposing other songs, and yet clearly that movie is making something wholly original and new out of those things. So there's got to be a way to acknowledge something about Moulin Rouge. I also feel like there is value to incorporating songs in a way that fits the movie in, again, a way that I would call original in a movie like Drive, the way that that movie sort of weaponizes its soundtrack to, create mood in that movie. Mommy is also on my list, exactly, the way they use Wonderwall,

the way they use non-original scoring in that. The, uh, the, the, the Ludovico Ionati, uh, track is Arrival using, um, exactly. That's exactly on my list too. And then for my fifth, uh, option, also I feel like if you pick one, uh, old song that works so well, I feel like you should just get an Oscar nomination for it. I'm thinking of something like, Take This Waltz, the way Take This Waltz utilizes Video Killed the Radio Star, the way that Mountains May Depart, the way that Mountains May Depart. That's also maybe a choreography nominee. Mountains May Depart. Absolutely. Oh, my God. See, this is why I wanted you to do choreography because you would have remembered all of the things that, like, if I had given myself more time. Give me a grant in six months and I'll come up with two decades worth of choreography nominees. Um, but yeah, that, that would be, those would be my two choices for, uh, for categories.

I want to pose a category question for you that like, I'm starting to come around on that, I feel like would really shake up the acting race in a way that people may or may not like. Yes. But like it's somewhat existed before. What? How do you feel about like a breakthrough performer, Oscar? I love it. I love. See, I'm starting to love it, too. I feel like some of the ramifications of it would be, and maybe this isn't a bad one, you ask our friend Katie Rich, and she'd be like, fine. There would be no child performances ever nominated in another competitive acting category. I, yes, I think that absolutely helps. I think it also, it just in general, would free up slots in your other acting categories, which I'm, I'm, A, I'm never going to object to. And B, we always, we always.

always talk about the Oscars trying to get more TV friendly. Ultimately, what people want to see are acting awards. And so it would be another acting award without feeling sleazy or without feeling pandery. And I feel like some people would feel like it would be, like, less valuable. But, like, that's not true of the Grammys. Best New Artists is considered a top category of the Grammys. And, like, the Grammys are a very different beast. But, like, I don't feel like, it would be lesser. I feel like it would be very hard for somebody nominated in that category to get nominated elsewhere.

So it's like you'd also have to like think like, what are the rules? What are the logistics of this? And I'm not just trying to think about this potential category a lot because I just want to soothe my mind that Oscar nominee Alana Haim will exist. But, um, oh, this would be a great year for that. makes sense. I also would support a best first film Oscar.

Like best directorial debut? Yeah. Like the way that, what the Independent Spirit Awards do. I would only, yes, I would probably support that too, but I would I would need way more like clear guidelines and

rules and logistics than like the Grammys have. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Lizzo getting nominated and best new artists when she's been making music that has been popular and widely listened to for five years. You'd want to do it right. You'd want to be, you know, rigorous about it. But I think there's a way to do that. And I think ultimately, and I think that's a way, it would be not as TV-friendly, but it would be a way to honor independent movies in a way that would satisfy people who

want independent movies to get recognized at the Oscars. And a lot of smaller movies get iced out in that way. I think ultimately, again, when the Oscars are on Netflix, and they are five hours long, which hopefully they can be. These are the things that I would like, yes. Fantastic. Amanda asks, if this had Oscar Buzz had an IMDB page, which episodes would show up under our known for? I had fun with this one.

Okay, so. Obviously, cats. Like, cats is the number one in there. Like, the type of stats we pulled for that episode is, like, unbarrel of cats would be there. Cats would be there. I think mother would probably be there. I agree.

I like the idea of our Pan episode with Katie Rich being on there because that was the debut of the Garrett Headland or Charlie Hunnam. I feel like that would be a justice for Pan on our known for, though. Maybe. Maybe. Other episodes that I feel like, to me, are standing. handouts. I've always loved our Meet Joe Black episode that we did with Bobby Finger. I thought that was great. I think the star power of our riding in cars with boys episodes, because we had

Bowen Yang as our guest on that one, might propel that one. I loved that episode. I thought that was a great one. And then the one I would throw on here, because I think it gets referred to so often is and it would be the most like it would be classic what the fuck known for is why is the ask the dust episode on the said oscar buzz is known for and it's because every time somebody asks us what is salma hyacic saying in your intro we have to you will be like right there being like point to the sign go go listen to our ask the dust episode where we explain that it is salmahyak in uh reading the 2006 oscar nominees for best foreign language film and her dead Japan recitation of and from Canada and from Canada water are the words that she is saying.

For best foreign field language we have, from Denmark after the wedding. From Algeria, days of glory. From Germany, the lives of others. From Mexico, panslavery. And from Canada water. From the country of Canada, the film called Water is what's going on there. Seek out the 2006 Oscar nominees, read in 2007, whatever, stupid. Salma is the reason this podcast exists, kind of.

I would maybe throw widows in there, too. Oh, yeah. Maybe it's a basic answer, but, I mean. Yeah, totally. From Josh, what was the first movie you wrote about professionally? I had to think about this I don't know if I have an answer I mean like

professionally like what did I get paid for to write about is like I think it was TV well before a movie and I'm also like it was long enough ago now that I'm like

please don't seek it out because it's probably a bad piece but I think it was Battlefield Earth oh wow yeah not obviously when it came out but that I think is the first movie I wrote about professionally.

So professionally, I'm not a film critic. Nobody wants to have me review movies and give me money for it, and that's fine. I mean, same. Like, none of mine is an actual review. I've never been paid for a review. I've done reviews that I've not gotten paid for. Some of my earliest writings about movies, even when I was doing, like, news roundups and stuff like that, I remember writing about films and development in, like, 05.

I remember writing a lot about Batman. begins in development, but I wasn't getting paid for that. I remember writing about like... Yeah, and like, we've both self-published before. Yes. Oh, yeah. Like, I, yeah, exactly. I've, probably, it wasn't even until, like, I was a decider where I was, like, actually writing film reviews at a job that I got paid for. Otherwise, it's been just, like, Oscar stuff and Oscar ephemera.

So, yeah, I don't really have a good answer for that, unfortunately. the correct answer for this is that joe and i are still extremely hireable extremely talented and incredibly hireable that's what i'm obligated to tweet when i get press access to any like film festival i'm like reminder that i'm extremely hireable um i'm i may be an idiot but i am also smart no you are you are a uh talented son of a son of a gun yes thank you darling as are you from judy do you prefer doing a podcast episode about the said Oscar Buzz movie that is good or bad. Is it more fun to talk about something great than should have been recognized but wasn't? Or is it more enjoyable to laugh at a movie for which the Oscar Buzz now seems ridiculous based on the actual quality

of the movie? I don't feel like we ever do that much laughing at something that it's like, well, this is ridiculous? Because at this point we're like, is any of it ridiculous? Like, because we're several years into this. But, But there are movies that we talk about here that I, that I hate, and there are movies that we talk about here that I love. I mean, my answer to this question is very Annette Benning and 20th century woman, yes and no, kind of a thing. There are good movies that I love talking about. There are also good movies that I feel very frustrated when we talk about why it didn't get an Oscar nomination because it sort of makes me angry. I think I'm not to be sort of glib about it, but like I like talking about interesting movies in odds. their direction. And sometimes the interesting thing is the ins and outs of why it didn't get nominated. Sometimes the interesting thing is the movie itself. Sometimes the interesting thing is the director or the star or, you know, something like that. And it varies. I think the actual quality of the movie in terms of what makes us want to do a movie, it really varies. Like, I don't think

that's ever the determining factor. Sometimes we just want to do a movie because we really do love a movie. I think look at no further than our Hustlers episode, where we were dying to do that movie because we loved it, but we were also dying to do, like, Captain Corelli's mandolin. We were also dying to do the shipping news. Yeah, my answer to this question is the quality of the movie has

almost no bearing on whether the episode will be good or fun to do. I agree. I agree with that. There's definitely been movies that we love, and we're like, well, that didn't necessarily make for the most interesting episode, and the same is true for bad movies, too. Right, right, right.

totally oh this this was if the one uh uh question earlier was like my favorite question this is my second favorite because you're winning love a listener that likes to instigate rivalry between us brad asked us what is the current status of the bets that you have got going against each other i always like to be reminded that somebody is paying attention to these because I'm glad, because, like, we are not keeping score on these nearly as well as we should be. We really should have a whiteboard. Says you. Oh, do you have a whiteboard?

Do you have a scoreboard? Listen, I can nurse a bet as well as I can nurse a grudge. Listen, I'm glad. Even though I'm losing on more of these than I'm winning, I'm glad that you remember them because I just... I'm probably coming ahead. Probably. The first bet, which dates way back... We might be tied.

No, I'm going to say we might be tied, but let's get into it. Okay. The first bet in our Ask the Dust episode, the apparently iconic Ask the Dust episode in our known for. We bet against each other whether or not Colin Farrell will be an Oscar nominee in five years, which that episode aired in July of 2018, so he has through the year 2023 to be nominated. Well, wait, is it as of July of 2023? Because in that case, I only have one more calendar year to go. I think it should complete the calendar years. I think that's fair.

Well, then I feel a little bit better about this. It's not, it's by no mean a short thing. I feel like we could even extend that through 2024, because like, what years were we talking about? Are you willing to extend it through 2024? Because I'll take it. Yes. Okay. Yes.

All right. All right. To lay this out, to some degree, you are betting on the house and I am betting on one particular number. Like, the odds are in your favor, because you're essentially betting on stasis, and I am betting on, you know, the disruption of that stasis. I looked at his upcoming movies, and there's no sure thing there, but I'm just going to say, we're only talking about a nomination.

I think there are some possibilities. We will know very soon, because it plays at Sundance, we will know the nature of his performance and role in After Yang. Well, it played a Cannes last year, and people didn't. Oh, okay. Well, then. Even the people that loved it the most didn't. really have much to say. The fact that it played at Canada, I didn't realize it, probably means it's not a thing. Okay. He's got a role, and I don't know how lead of a role it is, in the Ron Howard movie about the Ty Cave Rescue, that could be coming off of a best documentary nomination or even win this year. We don't know. Ron Howard is not a slam dunk for acting nominees, but nor is he out of that. We just talked about Glenn Close.

it's getting a nomination for Hillbileology. It's not out of the question that Colin Farrell gives the standout performance in that movie and maybe gets a nomination. I also think it's not, it's very unlikely that Colin Farrell in The Batman will be an Oscar nominee, but the Academy. From the Jared Leto and House of Gucci family of products. Well, yes, but also we are talking about an Academy that has given two Oscars to people, playing the Joker. So, like, it's not as out of the... I don't think it's going to happen, but, like,

they're doing a lot to spotlight him by, like... It definitely seems like he will be the capital V villain of the movie. And he's also seemingly going to be doing a lot of acting underneath all of that prosthetics. People are going to be talking about him probably more than they're going to be talking about anybody else in that movie. The one that I've got my eye on is he is reteaming with Martin McDonough and Brendan Gleason in the banshees of Inishurin however we pronounce that Irish word

with also Barry Keone who also how do we pronounce that name I thought it was Keegan I did too until I heard Joanna Robinson pronounce it and I trust her more than anyone on this subject because he is her boy I think the fact that it's a reteaming of the

in Bruges folk because that's one of his most acclaimed roles and he won a Golden Globe for it and a lot of people think he should have been Oscar nominated for it it's now Martin McDonough is not everybody's fave especially after three billboards but he's on the academy's radar now after three billboards and so

it's the type of thing that if in Bruges came after three billboards and Bruges would probably get Colin for that nominee. I'm losing this bet but I'm not out of the game yet is what I'm going to say I think that's the thing that is the most likely chance that you win. My thing about I'm going to win this bet is because of the Penguin. He signed on to do a Penguin TV series for HBO Max.

It's going to take up a lot of his time. Right. You're right. Like, I think that makes it be like the upcoming things that you're seeing now. That's all it's going to be because he's going to be doing this TV show. Right. I, yes. Like I said.

The second bet, which I thought this morning of a wrinkle we didn't actually. mentioned when we made this bet, because this is where we have a potential tie. The other bet was that I said Michelle Williams is getting an Oscar before Amy Adams. We never said what happens if they both win an Oscar the same year. Oh, do you think that's going to happen? I mean, that's how we would tie. Well, or just that neither one of them wins an Oscar until we're, you know, too old to remember this bet. I mean, it is very possible that, you know, this bet goes till our dying day. Right. But. A fine thing to put in our obituary that died still not having won. They died and they lived, nursing a bet that Michelle Williams and Amy Adams also deceased who would win an Oscar first. I also dug into their IMDB, so I just wanted to mention, as of right now, Michelle Williams certainly has the more promising upcoming filmography.

She's playing Peggy Lee in a biopic. Oscar loves biopics about entertainers. She is in the next Kelly Ryeckart movie playing an artist, I imagine she's the lead. At some point... I cannot wait for this. At some point, the Oscars are going to recognize Kelly Rikart. I just think so. I just think at some point it's going to happen.

I mean, first cow was probably her most... Mainstream's not the word. Yeah, it's really not the... But, like, circumstances were... were most fertile for her with first cow with how last year was right um it still doesn't seem like a kelly rickart movie is what's going to get her to win an oscar though this is for a win this is not just for a nomination the colin farrell thing is only for a nomination um she's in the new the upcoming spielberg movie that's about his family that i could see being is she playing his mom yes okay i could see

that being a win that's the one where i think I'm most worried that you're going to snake. I feel like not to be too far, like, year in advance, but, like, West Side Story is going give Spielberg a lot of momentum. I agree. Because I don't think, you know, West Side Story is going to take him there, but it's going to give him some momentum for this movie. We'll talk about that particular angle of it, I think, more so over the next coming weeks.

But, yeah, that's the one where I'm most worried about it, especially when I go and look at Amy Adams' IMDB. And aside from Disenchanted. which I don't think is going to be a contender for her, unless it's a huge, you know. It's Disney Plus only, though. Oh, well, then, yeah, so no. She's also who I needed to just mention it

in a film that is, I don't even know if it's filming, it might just be announced, called Nightbitch, where it's... Oh, yes. A stay-at-home... This is a woman who thinks that she's a dog or something. A stay-at-home mom begins to worry

that she may be turning into a dog. I'm just going to say probably that's not an Oscar-winning. role is what I'm going to say. Although I'm now kind of super interested in seeing what Nightbitch turns out to be. So yeah. But let's get to the one where I'm winning. Let's talk about that. You are winning this one. Yeah. You are winning this one. And I'm, I know I made this bet that I was like, you know what? Fine. We'll do this. Oh, oh. You're winning this bet. Oh, the way you are weaseling out of that. I'm not weaseling out of this. I'm just

contextualized. You literally just said, oh, I gave that one to you. Like, oh, I just sort of tossed that one off. Give it to you. I'm just saying I was also just being a fucking smart smart ass about this. Uh-huh. All right. I'm going to take this win. No, it's a real bet. This win will not have an asterisk next to it. I am going to... You are still going to be getting 50 bucks for this, sir. I did weasily end it. That was, that was my biggest accomplishment is to turn that into 50 bucks. Turning my hubris. But tell the listeners what the bet is. Tell the listeners what you... I said Merrill Street. We were betting if Merrill Streep would be nominated for don't look up in

supporting actress. I said that she would and Joe said no. I said she wouldn't and I is very smart. I am very confident. She's not getting nominated for this. Even I think if this movie does well, she's not getting nominated for it. Uh-huh. I think you're right.

I think that's right. So I will... If she does, it's a crime and I will not accept that $50 happily. I think you have the long the long-term success advantage and I am going to win in the short term and I'll lord that over you for as long as it applies

so that's fine. After this year we have two Oscar races to see how Colin Farrell ends up and then the Williams Adams goes in perpetuity. It goes in perpetuity, exactly. Right. From Sam, I loved this question. Joe has mentioned Survivor a few times. What are your favorite seasons and or players and how are you finding the current season?

I really feel like the worm has turned on this one, and I have now become, now my institutional knowledge of Survivor is a real asset for me. Before, I was like, I'm one of the, you know, loan people on film Twitter and on gay Twitter who watches Survivor.

Now everybody came around. You and Kevin Jacobson. And now everybody all of a sudden is a little self-styled Survivor expert. But you know who's been there the whole time? This guy. So, yeah, I love Survivor. favorite seasons, Heroes versus Villains is my favorite season. It has the best ending with, well, I'm not going to spoil it for anybody who wants to watch. I love how it ends. I love how, for the most part, the villains end up being far more likable than the heroes. It's a really well-chosen cast. Really fantastic. I always stick up for the very first season. It is weird to watch in retrospect. The pace of it is so much slower. And it's just sort of like a different era of television.

watching, but, like, super compelling. Token Chains has a very good season. I really like that. Survivor Philippines is very good and features Lisa Welchell from The Facts of Life, if that interests you at all. The Millennials v. Gen X season, I think, is very good. The David versus Goliath season is very good. As for the current season, if you want to read what I think about it, I've been

recapping it every week at primetimer.com, so if you can go there and read my recaps for this season of Survivor. I don't hate it the way it seems like a lot of people, especially a lot of people in media, really resent the changes that are being made to the game. I don't love the changes. I really kind of wish that Jeff Proppes would take a Valium and calm down a little bit this season, especially. I don't understand how you hate a show if you've been watching it for 40 seasons. Well, like, how can you have the strongest anti-feelings about it? It's because I, because people feel like the show that they love is being altered in a way that they

don't like. And I think it's because they love the show so much that they're annoyed with the changes that are being made to it. And... Right. And if you have 40 seasons of something, yeah. Obviously, it's doing fine. I think the cast of this season is really fantastic. CBS's commitment to casting their reality shows at least 50% POC is really paying off. It made for one of the best Big Brother seasons this past summer. And the cast of this season of Survivor is really great. I have multiple people going into this week's finale. I think by the time this episode posts, the season will be over, so we'll know who has won. But going into this finale, there's a few people I would be happy to see win. So I don't hate it. I've been enjoying it.

I think some of the changes, while annoying, have resulted in some kind of gag moments at the tribal councils. So I'm into it. I am still running strong with my Survivor Dorkship. So. Fantastic. Yeah. Survivor, I did like a month of like four seasons during the pandemic and I had to bail because like to me it was not good for me to binge it. It made me an incredibly like I was so super into it.

But it also was making me like anxious. Which seasons did you watch? And maybe a tiny bit combative. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head right now. But like when I told people which seasons I watched, they were like, yes, you. watched exactly the right ones to begin with. Yeah. But, like, if I go back to Survivor, I am not going to binge it because it wasn't good for me. Sure. There was a point. Like, I was also watching it during a global pandemic, so maybe that

was part of it. I kind of burned myself on it, too. The season before this, the last one that aired during early pandemic was the season of all winners. And by the end of that, I was like, I need a break. Like, I am, I had gone so hard into Survivor and was so invested in that season that I was just like, nope, I need a break. I will also say, though, not to self-promote, and Lord knows how you would find this on Twitter. But the one, my favorite day during early pandemic especially, was, I think it was Kyle Buchanan had posted a tweet prompt of like the last 20 best actress winners at the Oscar, and we're like, this is the cast for your new survivor. And I was like, challenge accepted. Oh, I remember that. And I just sort of wrote a day long, like, tweet thread playing out an imaginary

season of best actress Survivor. And I will say it's some of the best writing I've done during the last few years. Remind us who won? Winner was Olivia Coleman. The Queen stays queen. I'm going to, I will try to dig and find that thread because I'll try to put it in the Tumblr. I really enjoyed that day. That was a fun day. Moving right along, Nicholas asked us about this amazing Twitter account that has come up. At Oscars clip. God bless. Playing basically at random, different acting clips from the Oscar ceremonies of like what point in the movie the clip was, you know, played.

Because as we have bemoaned in the past, the Academy's like posting of all the Oscar speeches. Yes. Removes that footage because of licensing, whatever. It's really a monkey's pause situation where every, almost every. acting winner of the Oscars, at least of the last 30, 40 years, are available to you on Twitter in, like, really good quality video from the Academy's Twitter account, but the drawback is it can't post, they can't post any of the clips because of rights issues. The clips, which is a decent enough portion of the fun.

Yep. Unless it's like last year, which the Nicholas mentions, whereas, like, they decided to do trivia effectoids instead of movies, I kind of understood why they, They made that choice because it's like it would have just been a night of the same 15 movies all night. And it's like that's not normally what you would have. But like the DMCA take down is coming for you at Oscar's clip. And I just want you to know if you're listening before that happens, we will avenge you. Oh, yeah.

Just it's coming and it's going to be a bad day. I need to find a way to save. To save as many clips as possible, though, for my own cash. I need to figure out how to do that. Right. We love you. We respect you. Thank you for all of your hard work.

You are doing an essential service to us. We'll pay your bail. Yes. Nicholas's question is the creation of that Twitter account has got me thinking about shifting conventions around the presentation of acting nominees Oscar clips. What is your platonic ideal format? are ceremonies that stand out as best in class. Personally, I am a fan of 2009's montages, which effectively captured the essence of each nominated performance

by showing its emotional range overlaid over its respective film score. It goes without saying that I aboard this past year's cringe-worthy cliplessness. What was that Asand Soderberg decision? I do believe it was. I understand the reasoning and doing it, so we're not watching the same movies over and over? As with many of the Soderberg Oscar decisions,

some I genuinely appreciated. I did like the fact that, as we've talked about this before, that the nominees in the crafts categories actually got to be shown on screen. That was really nice. It felt like it was a very respectful treatment of the actual people

who make movies, which, coming from a director that makes a lot of sense, a lot of the decisions I kind of respected without necessarily loving them. I do not support a clipless Oscars. I do feel like clips are important. I think do respect to Nicholas, and thank you for your question.

I don't like montages. I'm very opposed to doing a montage instead of a clip. I like montages in other contexts at the Oscars. I think it was just this past week, right, Chris, where I sent you and Katie once again, the clip from the 90th Oscars where they did a history of a film set to various pieces of score that makes me cry every time. But no, I want clips. I think it's always fascinating to see what clip gets selected.

I think watching people react to their own acting is fun and sometimes can afford moments where, like, Kate Blanchard or Stanley Tucci are cringing at their own performance, which is very fun. and very fun. We've talked about the 2008-2009 option where they had either former winners in the category or notable actors with a connection to the nominees sort of give little... Which is what I love and what I would love to see back. And I think when they did it the second time,

when they did it for the 09 Oscars, they combined the speeches, and it made it especially long, but again, I don't care. they did the little speeches and then followed by a clip and that was a little bit like have your cake and eat it too

but I appreciated the fact that there was a recognition that clips are good and important That's my platonic ideal Yeah yeah What you just described Very good

I mean like I like maybe a montage of all of the performances before the like presenter comes out And then we do clips Maybe that seems like overkill But like I do like the idea of a montage that puts all these performances together and maybe tries to contextualize their range

instead of like the crunchy presentation where it's like Anne Hathaway comes out and is like a father trying to support his family, a serial killer, more charming than you would expect. I keep wanting to do a super clip of those, of just like a super cut of all of those things sort of mixed up together. This year's supporting actor category includes an ideal

rookie, a devoted husband, a ruthless con man, a crafty wizard, and a man who was a little bit of all those things, Howard Cassell. A troubled horticulturalist, a poetic AIDS victim, a wise and ruthless ganglord, a trusting but deceived husband, and a glib and shady father. A bail bondsman, a former president, a psychologist, a contemporary artist, and a porn producer. Sounds like the lineup for politically incorrect. I think were I... An astronaut remembering his child. And then the last one is always just like, and the craziest captain of the guard you ever saw or whatever like that. You know what I mean? It's just like, it's always

the last one is a little bit like wacky. It's always like, and a man with a very large penis. I think with certain notable exceptions, I always will talk about the 2001 Oscars I thought had especially well written and funny banter for their presenters. Certain Oscars are better than others in that regard. I think in general, were I producing the Oscars, I would sacrifice about 90% of presenter banter or sort of speechifying by the presenters, with certain exceptions, one of them being the ideal actor presentations that we said. And instead, I would like montages that contextualize the year in movies. For people who maybe have not seen, I

think if you're keeping in mind the fact that you are producing this awards for a mixture of people who have seen the movies and loved them and people who haven't seen the movies and could be curious about them, then I think you would want to do montages that show clips of the movies and have almost like you're doing a documentary about movies, right? Have the clips of the movies and have like Martin Scorsese and Guillermo del Toro and Regina King and Matthew McConaughey and whoever sort of like talking about what it is about these movies, the particular craft that you are presenting, why they are important, why they were effective, and show clips that, you know, that back that up. I don't know. Seems simple to

me, but it never happens. So. Our final question, and we saved a big one for last, comes from Brett. Brett asks, in past episodes, you have touched on alternative Oscar timelines. For example, what if Sandra Bullock didn't win an Oscar in 2009. And I found these discussions fun and fascinating. For the mailback episode, I'd love for you two to dive into more examples, perhaps giving each other a prompt to play out, preferably around Best Actress and Supporting Actress Races. I'm going to combine this with a question from Crystal to just kind of give us an avenue to do

one of these. Crystal was asking about how Rachel Weiss won for the Constant Gardner that year. And Rachel Weiss kind of steamrolled that year. So the what-if scenario I'm going to present to us is what if Michelle Williams had won for Brokeback Mountain that year. That's an interesting one to, like, relay back to some of our other questions. Most notably, the bet that I'm going to win. And I also did a Jack Nasty at the beginning of the question. The thing about Rachel Weiss is, like, I've heard this before that people say they're surprised that she won for that performance.

And it is kind of an understated understated performance. I think it was one of those things that it was just the right performer at the right time. Focus did actually push that movie pretty hard. They did. Even though it was an August release.

That one where... She was the right person at the right time. I think a lot of opinions were spread. Amy Adams was like, it was going to be a miracle if they got her nominated. And I think it was always... The nomination was always going to be the win.

A lot of people sort of look back in retrospect and like, oh, that should have been the one that Amy Adams won for. And it's just like, well, yeah, if we knew she was going to be Amy Adams, then like, yes, probably. But, like, at that moment, she was an unknown and the movie was incredibly small. And the nominee was absolutely the victory there. The nomination was absolutely the victory there. The thing about Rachel Weiss is, I remember watching the Constant Gardner in the summer. and I remember being really bold over by her performance especially, and she was not an actress who I was particularly bullish on at that point.

I didn't really know her for too much by then. I was not a fan of the Mummy movie, so I didn't really see. I think I might have seen part of the first one, but like I didn't really have a whole ton of like Rachel Weiss in the tank for me. So I watched that movie, and I was really blown away by her, and I was like, this would be a really cool Oscar nomination. Probably not going to happen, though, because this is a summer movie. and yada, yada, yada.

And then all of a sudden, award season comes along and she gets nominated for a globe and like, yes, this is great. I love that she got this nomination. Probably won't win, though, yada, yada, yada. And then the globes happen

and she wins. And I was like, yes, this is fantastic. At least she won the Golden Globe. This will be a really fascinating year. Probably every different actress will probably win each precursor. And then she just steamrolls through the whole season. I was just like, oh, okay.

So like a lot of people were on my wavelength with this. I think when you're talking about alternative timelines, though. I think if she doesn't win for the constant gardener, I don't know if there's a drumbeat for her to win for anything else that she's been nominated for or that she had been in contention for. I think, I mean,

eventually for the favorite, maybe she would have had a better shot. But I think by the time the favorite comes along, it's so long since the previous Oscar that I think... And Regina King was never not going to win, even though she wasn't a sack nominee. And I think the internal competition, even though I think Rachel Weiss is best

in show in the favorite in a very competitive field from her co-stars. She's my favorite performance in that movie. I still think the fact that she had competition from her co-stars probably is enough to keep her from getting to win for that anyway. Do you

think, though, that she would have been nominated for a movie that she wasn't nominated for in the interim? My mind says yes, but I don't have an immediate... Like the Deep Blue Sea is maybe the one I'm thinking. of because she did win a critics

prize for that one and... There might have been more attention given to that movie. Yes. But like, so maybe, but um... Like, I don't think... That movie was so small.

And like, I love that movie. She's incredible. Right. We talked a little bit a few weeks ago when we did our Blueberry Night's episode about how she had that movie, Agora, that was in development forever. But by the time that movie came out, it was an afterthought I think the fountain

I don't think the fountain gets any better received with a Rachel Weiss is overdue narrative to it I don't think her performances in movies like youth even though I think she's great in youth or the lobster

I don't think those get any more light on them in that case I think the Deep Blue Sea is the one area where if there's a sense... It changes something for her. I think it does. I think it does a little bit. What does it change for Michelle Williams, though? I think I...

Michelle Williams probably, I feel like maybe has one less Oscar nomination. I feel like it probably changes the roles she eventually plays. Because the thing I think that held her back from winning is a little bit of, A, the story was on the men and Ang Lee, the male stars, and Ang Lee, but also there was a Dawson's Creek snobbery around her a little bit, that it's like, people had to be like, oh, she's from this teen show. We never knew that she could be good, and she was good on that show. Yeah. So it's like, those of us who watch Dawson's Creek, like, we knew. Yeah, she was the best performer on that show by far.

nominated performances because we didn't mention them. One is Francis McDormand for North Country, and Catherine Keener for Capote. Right. Two performances that are, the roles are pretty small, even though they're in a lot of those movies, but I think they really get overshadowed by the leads in those ones a lot.

I think Catherine Keeter's like quietly pretty incredible in that movie, but it's just a performance that is never going to. to win someone in Oscar, even when you're in a position like Catherine Keener was who, like, a lot of people thought she should have won for being John Malkovich. And it's like, it's still even if a like worse actually rewarding you for this other performance, which happens all the time, it's still not something that's going to cross the finish line for that. And I think with McDormand, it is, I think she gives a good performance in North country. I think she's probably the one I would most easily kind of

lop off of that list just because I think other things are more impressive. But if she's not already an Oscar winner by then, that's one where maybe she gets momentum because it is a very Oscar bait kind of a role. No slight on

that. One other thing about Rachel Weiss I just wanted to bring up because I'm tooling through her IMDB. She does have an upcoming Thomas Alfredson movie where I believe she's, I imagine she's the lead. It says the story will follow a medium who convinces her husband to kidnap a child so she can help police solve the crime and achieve

renown for her own abilities. I'm so super psyched for this. And I feel like, I mean, maybe not you know, Oscar slam dunk. Sounds like the gift crossed with like young adults. And I say that even though I know that he did The Snowman, I'm mostly thinking of Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy being a more of a. And the original let the right one in. If you read up on the actual production of the snowman. It less and less sounds like his fault is what I will say. I'm willing to do that for him because I imagine that a lot of catastrophes have to happen for the snowman to become what it did. But anyway, even if that movie is kind of the junkie movie, I'm interested to see Rachel Weiss in that role. I think she would rule in something like that. So anyway, yeah, I think, so do you feel like

It's the, my temptation with the Michelle Williams thing is it's probably tempting to think, oh, well, then she just wouldn't get nominated for something like my week with Maryland, which is like probably everybody's least favorite. I think she probably doesn't do my week with Maryland. I think that's more likely than, yes. I think that's maybe true. Do you think though? And it's maybe somebody else gets nominated for playing Marilyn Monroe, probably like Naomi Watts. Because Naomi Watts was almost the Andrew Dominant. It was one of the many people who was almost Andrew Dominic's. Right. Marilyn Monroe. When is that movie going to come out?

That's such a... It's rumored for Berlin. Well, we'll see then. I don't think Netflix is going to be putting this movie on an awards race. That's my... Yeah, when I did that speculative history of the non-pandemic 2020 for Vulture, and I made my actually really good... I called Daniel Kaluja winning an Oscar in that one,

and I also called Will Smith winning an Oscar for King Richard. So, like, I wasn't so bad. Except for then in actresses, I predicted Anna da Armas for Blonde, a movie that still hasn't come out, which I guess it's still possible, but like buzz on that movie has gone south. And I truly didn't know what to pick for supporting actress. So I just threw out there Vera Farminga for the many states of Newark, and I'll take the L on that one. That was wrong. But that truly was just like, what the fuck, sure. Like this was award worthy on television, this role.

So like, and I will say the movie let down Vera Farminga. many states of Newark more than anything else. That movie did not care for that character super well. Anyway. I think maybe the do you think she still gets nominated for

Blue Valentine if she wins for Brokeback Mountain? For one thing it's leveling up to lead and I don't I don't think there is any more reticence to In fact, I think it then becomes sort of the Academy being like, yeah, we were right to take a flyer on this TV actress. Look how good she is as a star of a movie.

Right. I think maybe it's like that whole best actress race maybe changes because it was very competitive. And I think she was seen as being in fifth place, at least on nomination. She's maybe more of a contender that year. Yeah. And maybe if somebody gets pushed out, it's unfortunately like Nicole Kidman. yeah unfortunately because she's so fantastic in rabbit hole yeah you're right Chris this is our longest episode I'm pretty confident in saying

if we have to cut anything we can cut anything whatever I feel like our mailbags do go long but like that's what you guys want the week leading up to New Year's you're just trying to relax you're just listening to two homosexuals talk about awards and movies exactly listen to this while you're like making an hors d'oeuvre for New Year's Eve or something like that like yeah Thank you for all your questions, you guys. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate you, listeners, so much.

Thank you for supporting our wild endeavor and our lunacy and, you know, enthusiasm. Exactly. We love you, Gary, Gary being all of you. Maybe our listeners are Gary's. That's it. That's it. We've figured it out. I like it.

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