This Had Oscar Buzz - Reunited at TIFF!

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

It’s an annual tradition! Joe and Chris (reunited for the first time in years!) are reporting on the films of the 2022 Toronto International Film Festival, including this year’s (Not Grolsch) People’s Choice Award winner: Steven Spielberg’s The Fablemans. And we’ve got bets against each other gaining some heat! This episode, we unpack our feelings about some of … Continue reading "Reunited at TIFF!"

Uh-oh, wrong house. No, the right house. I didn't get that! We want to talk to Marilyn Hacks. I want to begin, Stephen, by asking you, this is the most personal film that we've ever seen from you. Why was now the time to make the Fableman's? First, I'm going to say, I'm really glad we came to Toronto. This is Canadian content, and it's time we take credit for it, starting now.

Hello, and welcome to the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, the only podcast that spent the last week and a half, trying on fancy brooches with Anne Hathaway and Zendaya. Every week on this had Oscar buzz. We'll be talking about a different movie that once upon a time had lofty Academy Award aspirations, but for some reason or another, it all fell apart and went wrong, except for now, we're not talking about a specific movie. We're talking about a lot of movies, because, Chris, we just came back from the Toronto International Film Festival.

I am your host, Joe Reed. I'm here, as always, with the Princess of Wales to My Royal Alexandria, Chris file. Hello Chris. In the search for new endings, there is only new beginnings, or whatever the hell. I will say, I feel less cloistered and sort of hoity-to-to-dy about talking about the pre-roll ads at TIF because this Bulgary ad pre-existed this Toronto Film Festival and is widely available to anybody listening who just wants to search on YouTube for the Bulgary ad, which Anne Hathaway and Zendaya, and watch it, here's what I'll say, to approximate the headspace that Chris and I are in, find that ad on YouTube, and then watch it three to four times a day

at, like, regular intervals. Like, every, like, three or four hours, just play that ad, and you will, and do it for, like, 10 days straight, and then you will imagine, oh, where we are. And then towards the end of those 10 days, try and start clapping on the beat a little bit and see if you can get other people to join it. And then you'll be where we're at, yes. We were being a little bitchy and saying that it was the greatest movie Paulo Sorrentino had ever made,

but honestly... Where is the lie? Find the lie, I dare you. I also ask you, what is the plot of this ad? It makes it seem like Anne Hathaway is like the doting stepmother to Zendaya who discovers self-actualization through dancing about diamonds.

They're two high-class con artists who have found a way into the home of a peacock enthusiast who is not home at the moment, but has designed a security system where if anybody breaks into the house, flowers will fall from the ceiling on top of them. They're too high society witches.

Right. Yeah, pretend that Anne Hathaway didn't already remake the witches, and then do a different movie called The Witches, and it's these two. Practical magic, too. When? The pre-roll of the festival. Okay, so we have to start this episode talking about the pre-roll of the festival. We do.

You know, Inside Baseball, if you are a listener who was not at the festival, but it'll be like the experience of watching a film at this festival. Other pre-roll ads include the RBC, How to Make a Film Ad, that... Right. It starts with the land acknowledgement, which is good and solemn, and brief, and when I say I compliment it for being brief, I'm not like, oh, thank God it's over, but, like, it's succinct in a way that I feel like an American version of that would be more flowery. I don't know. You know what I mean? Well, it's also succinct when we have five more ads to watch before watching a two-and-a-half-hour film.

Right. Royal Bank of Canada is a whatever ad. The volunteer ad, which we all rightfully clap at, because the volunteers were, once again, amazing. The backbone of the festival. Wildly friendly, as friendly on the last day I was there as they were on the first, which has got to be a feat. And anytime I see anybody in the lines being rude to the volunteers,

I will cast a spell on them and curse them silently and use all my gay powers, because as gay people, we are allowed to cast spells on people. We shouldn't say that to everybody, but it's true. Volunteer ad was kind of, okay. Underwhelming. It wasn't like the aha ads of past. I found some of them on YouTube the other day, and the one where the one volunteer walks into the take-on-me style music video. That was a good one.

Um, and then your mortal enemy, more, your mortal, mortal enemy, the Visa ad with the, um, Canadian halfway between, like, what if Ryan Reynolds and Josh Gad, like, became the same person? 100%. Okay, so it's what if Ryan Reynolds and Josh Gad had a baby, and he described the plot of Pulp Fiction to you four times a day, but also, like, set in an office. Yeah. where people are just trying to do their job. Yes. Every time he asks that woman for the pen,

I'm like, sir, she's just trying to make it to five o'clock, man. I'm like, don't give him the pen. Don't give him the pen. I figured one of those times I would watch, she would just not give him the pen. Wouldn't that be a gag? If all of a sudden you'd get the ad where she stonewalls in. That would be amazing.

And then the Bulgary ad happens, and we're all rewarded with 35 seconds of Anne Hathom and Zendaya, and Zendaya doing a little sort of interpretive dance with her sort of bell sleeves happening. Anne Hathaway, watching on dopefully. Yes, it's really, it's really something. Thank God for that ad. And then we'd get to watch movies.

I saw 23 movies. There's still one that I have a screenerling for, so I could make it 24. You saw 37 and just, 36. 36. Okay, I thought your letterbox list of 37. Regardless, at a pace of more than one movie per day more than me, like one and a half movies more per day than I did, did Chris file. And we're going to recognize that. And I still managed to emerge with my life and a little bit more money because I also attended the Taylor Swift event and wrote about it for Vanity Fair.

Yes. That's right. Where would the Taylor Swift event have ranked on your letterboxed if you were able to letterbox it? Somewhere in the lower third? I mean, the short film is beautiful. Yeah, you got to see the music video. For a print made specifically for TIF. I don't know. So your angle. It's also just a very different type of event. I've never gone to one of those conversation type things where it's basically a staged interview or an interview on stage for an audience. Sure. You know. Kudos to Tiff, though, because I was fully expecting to leave that and report on it while injured. Sure.

Stampeded by Twifties. Excellent crowd control by the festival. From what I have understood, the Swifties and the Harry Stiles people were the most intense fan bases. Yeah. The King Street outside of the light box before the Taylor Swift event. I joked that it looked like the funeral for Ava Perron. It was a fully packed street. You could not really move much.

There was this little wedge that you could get into the light box, and I, like, be-lined it for that, and I did not really crowd-surf or anything. So you wrote about this for Vanity Fair because not only just because Taylor Swift was in Toronto, but also she screened the long-form music video for, is it all too well? That's the name of the song? Yes. Be careful. Call it a short film.

They will come for you. Oh, why? What is it? It's a short film. I mean, like, she calls it a short film. Oh, I called it a long form music video. Whatever. Like, honestly, well...

I mean, it is... It is looking possible that it may be run in a live action short... Well, this is what I wanted to talk about. This is what I wanted to talk about. Because we are an Oscars podcast. So hold court a little bit on your thoughts on, does this have a chance? What are, is there some reverse snobbery potential there? Is there some?

My feeling, sight unseen, is the voters for the short films at the Oscars would be insane not to vote for this, unless it's really terrible. And I will admit I've never seen this music video. Sorry, short film. It's not really, it's not. No, it's not. I mean. It would be insane for them to not go for it just because it puts your category back on the map. I know we've gotten assurances by the new producers that they're not going to cut any,

more categories from the broadcast, but just to make sure, put Taylor Swift in your top five. So what do you think? Okay, so not, I mean, there's already some snobbery of, like, people being like, this is ridiculous. She should not be eligible for short film. And to my mind, like, she put it in a theater, has taken it to a major festival. Mm-hmm. And, like, if it hits the eligibility requirements, don't be mad at Taylor Swift, be mad at the

Academy. If it hits the eligibility requirements, she hits the eligibility requirement. Also, all short films. If you want to consider it a music video, think of all of the filmmaking greats that come from music videos. Like, if you had the opportunity to give, like, the Vogue music video, an Oscar, would you not? Yes, exactly. That's the thing is we wouldn't have to worry about, like, when is David Fincher going to finally win an Oscar? Because he'd already have like four of them by now. Right. The other thing is, when you're, talking about, like, eligibility requirements and whatever for short films. It's all by hook or by crook. These are student films. These are whatever. Like, they're finding their way into eligibility however they can. It's not like these things are playing robust theatrical runs anywhere. So, like, what are you talking about? Well, and I have not less patience, but, like, I make less room for the idea of, well, what if she's taking a spot of somebody who really needs the boost, whatever, if she's, She gets nominated because I feel fairly firm that, like, at the end of the day, the snobbery of what this short film exists as and, like, just the movement of the category that I don't think the Oscars are going to.

I mean, I could be wrong. You don't think she's going to get nominated. But, like, the snobbery is going to come in before she would even be nominated, let alone as a contest. Well, she has been. People are talking about her, like, she could be a winner. Like, I don't mind that. See, if Taylor Swift wins an Oscar for a short film, God bless it, and it's a much more interesting thing that would happen. The other thing is, Taylor Swift has been the subject of Oscar snubbery and snobbery before.

She still has never been nominated, even though she has had multiple occasions where she has had contending songs. And it's not like we have lived through an era of impenetrable best original song lineups where, like, she just couldn't crack this sterling. top five or whatever. She's had just as good. I maintained that even like Beautiful Ghosts, which is a weird nightmare dream fever, whatever,

probably would not have been the worst nominee in the field that year. She had the song from the Hunger Games the one time. She had the song from her own documentary the one time, which like songs from documentaries have made it onto the short list and like they've been worse than that one too.

So. She had the song from One Chance, the Paul Potts musical biopic starring James Gordon. Yes. So Taylor's still struggling out there. If there's one thing that pop star fans love, it's ways in which to turn their incredibly successful and beautiful and wealthy and talented objects of standum into disrespected underdogs. And this is definitely one way where Taylor Swift fans can be. like she gets absolutely no respect and it's intolerable.

And that's her situation with the Oscars. So we'll see where that goes. Let's talk about the movies, though. Let's talk about the movies. We are recording. We are hot off of his award ceremony this morning. We are recording immediately after. And much to, I think, few people's surprise, though I had some skepticism about it.

You did. The Fabelman's is the new Not Grulsh People's Choice Award. All right. First of all, we're going to pour one. out for the fact that Grohlsch is no longer sponsoring the People's Choice Award, which, speaking of the pre-roll means we don't get a Grosch ad before these things. Did I tell you that one of the programmers, too, I forget what movie it was, that they introed and they accidentally said Grosch.

You did. Did they get, like, you know, taken out back or whatever? Grosch, by the way, is a... I never saw that programmer again. It's a Dutch beer company. by the way. I've never seen a grulsh out in the wild. If I ever do, I will be taking a photo of it and putting it out on Twitter. It doesn't sound appetizing? Well, no, it sounds like the sound you make when you like hawk up a lugie or something like that. I was going to say,

it sounds like phlegm. Yes, it does. But the fablemen's. But maybe they are Flemish. Who knows? Yes, the Fablemans. Stephen Spielberg, this was the big story going into Tiff, which was the coup that it was that Tiff was able to nab. the new Spielberg movie. He hadn't been to a festival since, is it Lincoln, or am I misremembering? Bridge of Spies. He went to Southby for Ready Player 1. Bridge of Spies didn't play festivals, though, I don't think, did it? It played New York. Oh, it did. You're right. And Lincoln, I think, played AFI and was the secret film at New York when they still did that.

Yeah, Lincoln definitely did that. But anyway, Spielberg's lately been the sort of save it till the very end of award season guy. He opened the post very late. He opened West Side Story very late. And though obviously nobody's saying anything, it does feel like it's very easy for me who likes to graft narratives onto things to be like they're not fucking around with this one. They don't want to take any chances that it opens too late and the race has. sort of codified itself. I also think post-West Side Story wildly underperforming at the box office, I think they're not

fucking around with trying to- They don't want to rely on the box office because it's so unpredictable. They are probably concerned for this two-and-a-half hour, quite funny, but, you know, ultimately Oh, yes, this tip. A certain type of movie for a certain type of audience that's not really going to the movies right. this people's choice award is not lying like this is a crowd pleaser like this is not a surprise it's a good people's choice winner it's a great people's choice winner actually it's probably the best one that i can think of going back to i'm trying to think of the last time certainly in my time at tiff with a qualifier of nomad land being at a tiff that played 50 movies right exactly um like

12 years of slave was before was the year before i started going to tiff But that's probably the last time I've liked a movie as much as the Fableman's that won people's choice. I sort of went and did a little bit of quickie research on this in terms of, because we've already seen the Fableman's be talked about as, like, that night I saw people being like, well, the Oscar race is sewn up. And I've seen at least one more person since then being like, well, the Fableman's is winning best picture, like, as a fait accompli. I always encourage people to take caution when you say that. It's a very long Oscar race, and being the frontrunner is not always the desirable position from this early on. Absolutely not. Like, I don't, again, we're recording this right after the award was announced.

I don't know yet if it's a good thing or a bad thing in the long run. I do think it maybe does have the juice to kind of withstand being the first frontrunner in the race. Um, it, it has, like, we've seen a lot of things in recent years be not, not a great thing to be the early frontrunner. It, it does, though, it's not an early frontrunner that feels, like, we think of a lot of things that sort of burn early front runners. They are technically impressive, but not emotionally engaging. They are, you know, they're maybe cold. There may be, um, or, the opposite. Or the opposite is like it's so much of an emotional pull and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny, which if the Fableman's is going to get dinged, it would be from that angle. It'll be from people who watch it and feel they were oversold on the emotional wallop of it. Because it is

a fairly delicate movie. And it's a movie that hinges on small family bonds. Well, and I found that really impressive. What I think people might be underwhelmed by is partly because of that horrendous trailer for it, is that it's like... Which I still haven't seen. This big, giant swooping thing. And also that, like...

I mean, it's probably good that this is still being sold as like a movie about the power of movies because I ultimately think that has very little to do with this movie. And like, this is one of a thousand movies. It feels like

thought this festival that's about understanding and reconciling your parents and your relationship to them in a way that I found incredibly moving. And like, sure, filmmaking is a part of that, but it's more about that than it is about going to the movies and the experience of going to the movies. Yes, it's not as much about the experience of going to the movies as it is the experience of wanting to make movies, which I think is a crucial distinction. And, Well, and how Spielberg, as a filmmaker, his experience of making and assembling movies or telling stories, how it interacts with his personal life and a personal life that he doesn't speak about much. Yeah. I guess that some of this was in the Spielberg documentary, and I just forgot about it, but, like, there is kind of a huge element of surprise throughout the movie that I wouldn't really want to spoil for people, but they don't know what it is.

And it's like when that surprise kind of happens, it really does, to me, at least, reveal what the movie is. And that's when I started being really taken with it. I want to talk about the various nomination chances for the failman's, but I also want to back up for a second and just talk about the festival sort of environment and where Best Picture winners ultimately come from. I'm looking at since, so there was a stretch run, like festivals did not become the like prerequisite for Best Picture. winners until the mid aughts. There was that, like, Beautiful Mind did not play festivals. Chicago did not play festivals. Certainly Return of the King didn't. Million Dollar Baby opened on, like, New Year's Eve at 1130 at night. You know what I mean? Like that, but yes, it was as much. It was so late in the festival. Crash, obviously, is the outlier in that

stretch because it played TIF, but it was the year before. Much like the Hurt Locker. Right. The Departed didn't play a festival. So starting with the 2007, Best picture winner. Tiff has premiered only one best picture winner. Care to recall? Nomadland. No, Nomadland premiered in Venice. Oh. Then it's, I mean, post-American beauty. Slumdog Millionaire was a telluride. Argo was a telluride. So was 12 years of slave. what's the answer it's green book green book is the only tiff premiere uh which is also one of five people's choice winners at tiff to so uh to uh win best picture it's uh nomad land green book 12 years of slave the king's speech and slumdog millionaire are all people's choice winners that went on

to win best picture of this period um yes people's choice has a tremendous track record with best picture nomination and I've written about this right right I mean like I've written about the history of this people's choice and like best picture relationship and it goes back to actually chariots of fire

yeah so it's like people kind of pin it on American Beauty but it actually had a longer history with Oscar than well and even to the point where recently you'll get movies that seem like odd choices for people's choice winners and like room will win and people will be like

and Jojo Rabbit will win and be like, well, that's going to have a hard time continuing the streak of people's choice winners to get a best picture nomination. And then like, sure as it goes, room gets a best picture nomination and Jojo Rabbit gets the best picture nomination and Green Book wins. And so it does have this very, very strong correlation. The other thing that I noticed is since No Country for Old Men year 2007 to last year, only twice has the best picture winner not screened at TIF at all. Not talking about Premiere, just like in terms of like, it's only ever been two Best Picture winners since 2007 that were not at TIF at all. One of them was Coda last year. The other one was Birdman. And so that is, again, so if you're going to TIF, it might not premiere the Best Picture winner, but it will almost certainly show it. So it's not bad news for something like banshees have been as Sharon today. Exactly. Exactly. So before we get off of Fableman's, though, the story going in, and I think in many ways the story going out, performance-wise, is Michelle Williams, who we have had our eye on because we have our little wager that...

If she wins an Oscar before Amy Adams, I get $50. Chris gets $50. And so we have had our eye on the favor. Abelmans towards this purpose for quite a while for her, because we were like, big Spielberg project. She's playing essentially his mother, a version of his mother, and we assumed that it was going to be a supporting performance. I think seeing the movie, you could go either way. I think she's probably going to be campaigned and supporting. I think she will be the frontrunner in supporting actress, and she's tremendous. Yeah, she is absolutely incredible in this. I do think it's in the

vein of what she did on Fosse Verdon. Yes. And, like, there gets to be discoveries about this character. I feel like, in, you know, the immediate comparisons that I think are ultimately, once you see the movie a little lazy, to other directors making, like, their life story type of movies or whatever, I feel like a lot of those parent roles in those movies never really kind of allow you to actually discover them and like still kind of approach

those characters behind glass as if they are not actual characters and that is not true about this movie and I would say that even more so for Paul Dano who I would say is my favorite performance in the movie but like it's it's not exactly a movie that is

wanting for great performances I mean like Jeannie Berlin is incredible in, like, three scenes. Judd Hirsch is going to be a huge story for having, like, five to ten minutes of screen time. Judd Hirsch is your classic, shows up, like, punches in, gives three barn-burner scenes and literally, like, punches out.

You maybe don't understand half of the words he's saying. It's almost like a Cohen Brothers character. He basically, like, gives the main character his entire statement of purpose, punches out, and the audience spontaneously applauded. And I was like, well, welcome to the best supporting actor race. Like Judd Hirsch is going to be nominated and will richly deserve it. I also want to bring up Gabriel LaBelle, who plays the young protagonist. We're all going to be calling him

the young Spielberg throughout this campaign and might as well not fight it. So what a charming performer. What a charming performer. What a very good performance. I think in the in these movies, you tend to everybody else around this sort of younger performer gets a because they're the actors we know of. There's often a reluctance to nominate younger performers in lead, especially when you can't fudge it so that they are supporting. And even still, sometimes you'll try, you'll see some movies try and put their child protagonist in supporting.

You know, they tried it with Whale Rider before people came to their senses. But he's fantastic. I would absolutely get behind a campaign to get him a best actor nomination. Especially, I mean, like, we'll give into it, but how dire best actor is this year, he would absolutely deserve consideration ahead of some other people. Right. Okay. So the runners-up for people's choice, women talking, which right before the ceremony,

I texted you, because I wanted to be on the record, because I sort of realized that I hadn't been considering women talking, as a People's Choice Award winner, mostly because its subject matter, is fairly grim. And I tend to think, like, well, what are, like, the big rousing, you know, crowd pleasers? And yet I'm like, but it's a Sarah Polly movie. And this is an award being voted on in Canada. And Canada loves Sarah Polly. She is, like, their favorite daughter.

And it's probably the most audience friendly of every movie she's made. And so this was your runner-up. This was your first runner-up. for people's choice, and I think it's a really good indication that even though this is a movie that it's a bit of an odd duck of a movie just in terms of its presentation. It's maybe a little bit more lyrical than people are expecting. It also, while being lyrical, also is very head-on in terms of its themes and in terms of what it's saying about. you know this women living under a patriarchy essentially um i thought it was really fantastic it is the

like circumstances that these women exist in but it is also broad big intellectual ideas yeah too so it's talky but it's also like in being talky can be entertaining but it can also have really like kind of complex issues that I would maybe argue it kind of breezes through a little bit quickly. This was maybe a movie that I think could be a little longer than it is. Yeah. I... So you can actually kind of sit with stuff and not feel like you're marathon throughing a lot of big ideas. I think you having read the novel that it's based on and me not probably puts us a little bit on two sides of a different, two different sides of offense for this movie.

I really thought it was tremendous. The cast is wonderful. It is about very briefly the women in a Mennonite community who have been experiencing a constant stream of sexual assault from the men in the community. And they are now faced with the decision of whether they stay in this community and essentially try and fight back against this tide or make the decision to pick up and leave a and move on, and where they go and what they will do when they get there is sort of not known. And they are now tasked with making this decision among themselves, and that is the sort of titular women talking of the movie. This is not the movie titled Decision to Leave, but it's about a decision to leave.

Wow. I didn't even think about that, but yes. Rooney Mara is sort of being positioned as the lead among this cast of women, And so you are then left with a, you're spoiled for choice, sort of, with supporting actress contenders. Jesse Buckley is really great. Claire Foy is really great. You and I both zeroed in on Judith Ivey's performance. Judith Ivy's the best performance in the movie, period. I agree.

I absolutely agree. I think she's tremendous. And every single time I started to tear up in that movie, I realized it was because of something that she had just said. And she's tremendous. Francis McDormand is in this movie, but very briefly. I would not count on any kind of campaign for her. Ben Washaw... My feeling, and like we've had this conversation,

my feeling is beyond Francis Dorman, Francis McDormon being a headliner. The three female headliners of this movie, as much as I hate, category placement conversations, by right, I think they are all actual leads of the movie, and then everyone else is supporting, because there are just, as you're mentioning, a real, like, host, feast of,

interesting and compelling performances from this entire cast, especially from people you have maybe never seen before, including in the young cast. Oh, I will be very, very invested in this movie getting a SAG nomination for its ensemble. I think it deserves that. So what you're saying that you would think that Rooney Mara and Claire Foy and Jesse Buckley all should be placed in Best Actress. I do think that. And I, hmm, I'm still kind of thinking of how I feel about Claire Foy and Jesse Buckley in this movie. I feel like those are easily nominatable performances, but I'm not quite sure I loved those performances. They are the biggest performances in the movie.

Sometimes I think... Clair Foy actually, like, did affect me at some point, but, like, I just wasn't fully on board with those performances, but I could change my mind. Ironically, this is probably the most I've ever liked Jesse Buckley in anything, and I've been sort of reluctant about her. You are not the Jesse Buckley fan. I think she's got the best case towards a nomination. I think Claire Foy has a very good one too. I think it is very likely. Not likely. It is very plausible that the two of them could be both nominated together. It's a long season. I think Claire Foy probably has the best claim to one because she has like the Oscar clip monologue. We've had this conversation in the apartment. I also think Jesse Buckley has a lot. Oscar clip not monologue, but it will be interesting to see how that shakes out. I also think Sarah Polly is going to be in the conversation for certainly adapted screenplay, possibly director, although I would not start writing her name in there in ink for that category, because it is the type of movies that have gotten Best Picture nominations and not Best

Director nominations, it wouldn't super surprise me. That being said, there are a lot of very clear, artful decisions, some of which I think people will roll their eyes at, like the desaturation of the movie, the ultra-wide aspect ratio, but also just kind of the structure of the movie, you know, it's not a movie that is entirely these long conversations, and they're almost kind of punctuated by these montage sequences that, you know, you're not seeing, you're seeing the aftermath of the attacks on these women, but on these women, but you're not ever seeing the attack. It should be clear. But just like how their society

functions and in the grand sense how our own society functions that I think really kind of give this movie a propulsive energy that I maybe nevertheless needed to sit with it more as I was watching. Sure, sure. So the other

runner-up for people's choice was Glass Onion and I'm going to be very interested to see how this movie proceeds if it does through award season, because for one thing, it's a Netflix movie, and Netflix all of a sudden finds itself with not a whole lot of options for awards season. They've got white noise, which kind of underwhelmed in Venice. They've got Bardo, which could still be a contender, even though a lot of people seemed to hate it, but it's that kind of hate that feels like, yeah, a lot of people

are going to love it then. You know what I mean? I mean, it's the kind of hate that feels like people made up, I'm not trying to be cynical and, you know, get behind the psychology of people, but, like, it feels like people weren't giving that movie a chance to begin with. And at the end of the day, I'm pretty sure I'm going to like that movie based off of the things people say they don't like about it. I feel the opposite for myself, but we'll see how that goes. But other than those two movies and Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, which is going to be an animated contender, Netflix doesn't have a lot. And all of a sudden now, in this sort of barren, environment now. They've got this huge crowd pleaser of a movie. It's sequel to Knives

Out, which I maybe like... This is the most enthusiastic TIF crowd I have ever been in. It's the, it was my favorite thing I saw at the festival. I had a fucking blast. I think I may have liked it even better than the first Knives Out, but like I'm going to let myself sit with it. It is full of fantastic performances that, quite a few of which I could see a world in which you try to craft a campaign for a Janelle Monet or an Edward Norton. Kate Hudson is tremendous in this movie. She will absolutely be on whatever kind of supporting actress ballot I make at the end of the year. I loved every single thing she says in this movie.

And just in general, I wonder, so Knives Out topped out at a screenplay nomination. That was its only nomination, right? Yes. Which left a lot on the table. You could have had, even beyond performance nominations, you could have had costume nomination or art direction nomination or a best picture nomination or any number of things. And the question is going to be whether Oscar voters feel like they, in the ensuing years where Knives Out has retained a very strong reputation as a very good movie. And then with Glass Onion feels like almost like a coronation of, it's, it's. It's so good that you look back and you feel like, oh, my God, these are maybe like some of our most important movies right now are Ryan Johnson's Knives Out movies.

And so will Oscar voters then retroactively be like, maybe we need to, you know, hop on this boat? Or will they be like, well, we gave the first one a screenplay nomination. We don't really need to get into the business of sequels with this thing and move on. If it wasn't for the position Netflix was in, that's probably what I would think about the movie. But given their position and given the amount of money we know they spend on their movies, yeah, I definitely see potential for things like a production design nomination. Certainly the revived. It would really deserve a costume design nomination. It's so deeply deserves the best costume nomination.

In ways we shouldn't spoil just because it was so joyful and wonderful. This is the other thing is Glass Onion does not premiere on Netflix until December 23rd. we are hoping that it will get a theatrical run before that of at least definitive. They have not said anything definitive. So to me, that says they're trying to figure it out, which, like, if the TIF audience reaction is any indication, that's an incredibly smart thing to do because, like, you know, I mean, sure, it'll be in theaters, but this is a movie that needs to play, like, across the country. This needs to be open on Thanksgiving weekend.

Like, this absolutely needs to be in theaters on Thanksgiving weekend. Well, it would have to be beforehand, probably, because of the 45-day window. I mean, if it has a 45-day window, that would mean it would be on the platform for Christmas and open in early November, which would be fine. Right, but I'm just saying it needs to be still in a theater for that weekend. Like, that, you need to be able to have that as an option to see with your families on the holidays. It's, it's, just, it plays tremendously in a theater. Also, see it as soon as humanly possible because... Everything's going to be spoiled.

Someone's going to spoil. I saw things on getting spoiled that should not happen. Just what a fucking dick move to like, say some of, like, there are so many kinds of things to get spoiled on in this movie, and I don't want to spoil anyone on anything. I'm going to shut my trap and see this for yourselves. it's do yourselves a favor but I'm really really I'm holding out hope for an outside shot at a best picture nomination for this because it is definitely it was my number one from TIF so

I had some more reservations about it you did though I did love my experience with the movie um I think it kind of looks like shit in the way that a lot of Netflix movies look like shit um and uh other things that I wouldn't want to go into lest we talk too much about the plot of the movie. Yeah. I don't notice those things. All right. So moving on then from the People's Choice Award winners, in terms of what we do think are going to be other big best picture contenders, or Oscar contenders in general, not necessarily just best picture. I want to talk about banshees of Inasharon and the inspection, both of which we both saw. I think banshees of Inasharon is going to be a big, probably a big contender across

all categories. I think the inspection has a couple of performances that I really, really want to show up in the acting categories. But I think higher ambitions than that, particularly with A-24, concentrating on everything everywhere all at once. I'm not so sure. What do you think about those two movies? Banshees-A-Sheran is a very heady movie, but it's also very, very funny. I think because maybe three billboards laid a foundation with Oscar for Martin McDonough, that definitely helps this movie because I think if that wasn't already established, I would maybe have a lot more questions about how this would register with Oscar. It's a significantly better movie than that movie. So anyone who is concerned because they hated three billboards. Yeah.

Don't let that keep you from seeing this movie. Yeah, and I think that this movie succeeds explicitly where that movie failed in a lot of ways in terms of discussing all caps where we are now. Sure, sure, sure. That being said, I am a dumb dumb when it comes to inter-Ireland relations, and I don't fully always understand it. So I, and like the particulars, and this is definitely somewhat historical. but it's like operating on the fringes, but on the fringes in a way that it's like underline this is what the movie is about, in a way that I'm eager to see the movie again to try to wrap my head around some of that. I mentioned this to you the other day, but I would not be surprised if this ends up being Martin Bickdona's first best director nomination after he was surprisingly left off of the list for three billboards, even the three billboards was a best picture contender. Um, we have had our eye on this movie as well because of a wager between us, where I get $50 if Colin Farrell is nominated for an Oscar by the end of this year's Oscar campaign. We did this several years ago. We gave my, we gave me, I think, three years to pull it off. So this is kind of my- I think it's actually through the end of next year, but we figured out that he probably won't have a movie next year. Right. This, this is, this felt like a last shot, especially after, after Yang,

ended up being so muted in terms of its reception, I think is going to happen for me. I don't want to count any chickens before they hatch. I think he's going to get a best actor nomination off of this. And finally, I think there is a great narrative out there for, you know, it's time. We need to get him a best actor nomination. I also think Brendan Gleason is going to end up getting his first Oscar nomination and supporting actor. It is not quite a co-lead. I sort of went into this movie, assuming it was going to be a co-lead, sort of like it was with in Bruges. He's definitely the more supporting of the two, but it's a real robust supporting performance. And he's tremendous. He's been tremendous for quite a long while. I think he's

overdue for an Oscar nomination, and we'll be happy to see him get one. I agree. I also think Carrie Condon, who is somebody who's been in things for a while, I remember her as far back as Rome, the HBO series Rome. She's also for Marvel fans, she's the voice of Friday, the Tony Stark's whatever AI system, the voice he hears inside his suit after Paul Bettney went and became sentient as Vision, she sort of took over. She plays Colin Farrell's sister in this. She's really, really good and has a few scenes where she just, she's very sympathetic

in a movie that is about a lot of sort of unpleasant emotions between people. She's somebody you really root for in the movie, and I think that always helps with a supporting performance, especially from an actor who you maybe didn't know about before. What do you think of Carrie Condon? I think she's really great in the movie.

I agree with all that you're saying. I think post-Katrina Belfth, I'm more willing. You're distrustful. We were all certain would be a nomination. It's true. Well, Judy's not sneaking around on the periphery. Judy's not in this movie.

We did see the movie that Judy is in, and Judy Dench will not be nominated for Alleluia. Oh, my God. Like that, Richard Eyre, we were so excited to see Richard Eyre and Judy Dench together again after Notes on a Scandal. It's a movie called Alleluia. It will not, I doubt it will be not open, it will open this year. It will probably not open until next year.

set at a it's not I originally thought it was an old folks home it's a hospital for the old and perhaps dying and I was like it'll be our last day of the festival we'll see something

that's you know British and sentimental even though knowing that like Richard Air is apt to like pull some stuff on you but the things that this movie pulls out in its last 25 minutes are unsubilaterally Portable.

Oh, no. I think you, well, you were right. It is, the movie cannot support it. And it is, no. But anyway. It's a shame because it's a movie that would have been otherwise, like, perfectly fine, but a nice time at the movies. And then it pivots hard. And it's like, oh, fuck.

What about the- Judy Dench, though. Yes. We all love Judy, Densh in a role where she says, Mama, let's research. She learns, she teaches herself the iPad. She does teach herself the iPad. That is very true. Um, what about the inspection? Where are you on the chances for, particularly Jeremy Pope and Gabriel Union in the acting categories?

I feel like I liked this movie more than a lot of other, I mean, like, not hugely more than everybody else, but I feel like I like this movie more than everybody else. It's one of the few movies I was watching this festival that I felt clearly, I'm like, this could be a best picture nominee, but then again, people seem to like it less than I did. Um, I think, But I don't think people disliked it is the other thing. I think a lot of people were expecting maybe more than what they got. I think people also had a lot of small complaints about it, which I think are fine, but it's also the type of small complaints that people would have about a movie that is pitched directly up the middle. And like, in Elegance Bratton, the writer-director who the movie is partly based on his experience of being kicked out and experienced unhousing because of his homophobic mother, and then he enters the military, not only just to, you know, have housing security, but also to appease and appeal to his mother. It's based on his experience.

But in introducing the movie, Elegance Bratton said that he was kind of explicitly making a movie appealing to an audience that, like, everybody could see this movie, and you could maybe make people like his mother understand their consequences or open up their heart. And I think, like, it is a movie that is that. I think it is a very mainstream movie. And I feel like its sensibility will appeal to the academy. And I think, you know, if you want an immediate comparison, obviously, the military is part of it. But, like, it's the type of sensibility of not obviously a romance, but, like, an officer and a gentleman. Yeah. And you have some quibbles with it.

Other people have quibbles with it. I think there's some tonal shifts. But at the same time, while I think it is that movie, and it is appealing to the sensibility of somebody who is maybe closed off to the issues of queer people, I don't think that this is a movie that pulls any punches in terms of things like queer lust. It is fairly explicit about those things, too, in a way that I don't feel like, you know, it's playing exclusively to, like, a straight audience. But that being said, the performance. are tremendous. Like, we're both hoping Jeremy Pope will get through in best actor. Obviously, it's not a 24's priority, which is very frustrating. I feel much more certain about Gabrielle Union, who I wrote about for The Daily Beast, getting through as the mother role,

you like, just, A, just so happy that she finally got a role like this that shows the full range of what she can do. And I think she, she, she makes a, makes some really difficult choices because we have to understand this woman, but I don't think it's as common to not ask for sympathy from the audience in the way that she doesn't. And I found that incredibly impressive. Yeah, she's very, very good. We are now in year two of our grand national project where the stars of Bring It On get comeback, get Oscar vehicles for playing mothers of queer children and we celebrate that Eliza Dishku you are up next I guess exactly um yeah I think she's tremendous I think I hope that supporting actress is has you know

enough opportunity in that field for her obviously Michelle Williams is the frontrunner there but there are five slots in that category best actor is a real mess we'll get into that in a second with a couple of the other movies that played TIF. But I think Jeremy Pope is one of the best lead actor performances I've seen this year. It's, I would agree. The A24 thing is very interesting because they have two contenders here. They have the much more, I think, potentially divisive everything everywhere all at once, which was such a hit and has such fervent fans. But the more and more you talk to people, the more and more you hear about people being a turned off by the fans by the sort of the Oscars aren't going to care about the fans of

that movie though no but what I'm saying is I also feel like you're getting a sense of people not liking that movie as much as its enthusiastic reputation might suggest I loved that movie I mean I think a good portion of the industry has already seen that movie though I feel like a lot of the hesitations around everything everywhere have already kind of been met. But what I'm saying is, I wonder if there is a sort of silent majority out there that is not, has not connected with this movie on the level of the rest of it. I don't know. And I think A24, it's interesting that A24 is seemingly lining up to more aggressively push the weirder movie, which is an interesting dynamic. I would just disagree with you that I actually think everything everywhere is going to be their least divisive movie that they're pushing. that's a take on it. Just because people had so many quibbles about the inspection. I would normally think that that is...

Sure, but what did you just say? You just said that the inspection is pitched towards a more mainstream audience. I think everything everywhere all at once is definitely the stranger movie. I think... I mean, I agree with you, but I also said it's pitched towards more... It's pitched down the middle, and yet people had these hang-ups about it. Right. So, but I think we're getting hung up on the distinctions between divisive as in the reception

to a movie and how it's constructed, how it's pitched, how it's sort of, like, the inspection is a more mainstream type of a movie. Everything everywhere all at once is the weirder movie that became the big hit sort of unexpectedly. I don't know. I just think it's interesting. I think another studio you could have seen the same dynamic happen and watch them put all of their chips on the sort of more traditional movie that even still some critics may not have liked as much. Right. So, I don't know.

I guess we could continue on the best actor thing and talk about two movies that you saw, that I did not, that are both currently listed as contenders and best actor, but were not very well received at TIF. That would be the whale and the two. worst movies I saw of the festival. Yeah, so talk about these movies. I did not see. The worst of which being the son, which is the follow-up to the father by Florian Zeller. It tackles very, very poorly, issues of mental health in relation to Hugh Jackman, who is a father, who left his wife and teenage son to start a new family with Vanessa Kirby. His ex-wife is played by Laura Dern. It's kind of an unqualified embarrassment, I think, for just about everybody involved, except I think Vanessa Kirby is pretty good. I don't think that it's any of the actor's fault.

I think that the script is after-school special if everyone was played by a robot, it feels very much like super, super, super French dialogue was just thrown into Google Translate and not touched um and it's just much like the whale it's just misery porn it is i don't think it effectively or thoughtfully approaches its you know subject which it's clear everybody takes very seriously and has good intentions about in the movie but it's it's bad um when cameron bailey came out and introduced the movie beforehand he's like when we saw this movie a few weeks ago i was like a few weeks. A few weeks. So it's like they didn't, they clearly didn't see the movie before they, you know, made it a gala.

Yeah. Which like these, those things happen, but it was just, um, yeah. I think I, I, even with few contenders in the best actor race, I do think that there is an explicit possibility that Hugh Jackman is not nominated for this. And if he is nominated, he will probably be the dead last fifth place. Even headlining this movie that is going to get an awards push, he doesn't really have much to do or have an arc. Like, there's the big, like, sobbing scene, but beyond that, like, it's already lost you as an audience member. yeah so contrast that then with Brendan Fraser's chances for the whale because even with the whale not being very well received as a movie I still feel like more than half of the pans that I see for the whale still make a point of saying Brendan Fraser is very good we love Brendan Fraser we're happy that he's having a comeback he does his best he imbues the character with as much as he can yada yada and it still feels like even though the

as a greater entity is being sort of knocked around a bit that Fraser not only could still survive that to get a nomination, his first ever Oscar nomination, but that he still could be in position as a frontrunner. I think it kind of remains to be seen what the industry is going to respond to that way in terms of how it affects his chances of potentially winning. I think, unfortunately, he is probably going to be nominated. I mean, I wouldn't say he's bad in the movie. I trust his intentions with this movie and his, you know, aim at being empathic in this movie

more than I trust or feel positively about Aronovsky or cinematographer Matthew Lipitik's so-called attempts at empathy in this movie, which is fully bullshit. Um, it's also just, in my opinion, a garden variety bad movie. There is no, like, all my problems with the play are still there. They kind of temper down the Jonah and the whale, uh, allegory that I hated so much and was offended by so much. Um, and really kind of just put it all on Moby Dick. Um, I think it's very kind of anonymously made from Darren Aronovsky, especially when he's already, done so many of these story beats with the wrestler I don't know I'm kind of bracing for it to be appealed to

by the industry at large and like it could be the type of thing that like you know the love for Frazier is a tide that lifts the whole boat up you know like a Philip Seymour Hoffman and Capote type of thing and yet like

I just, I have some questions about the Fraser campaign. And I say this fully knowing that I am somebody who is very against the movie. But I just, I wonder how much of it is just the internet and us rooting for him and his career. And like, to be clear, I want him to be able to play a role that has this type of emotion, that allows him to have this type of emotional commitment, et cetera, and get the praise. I don't think he deserves it for this movie. It's a character, I, I think that they're, let me loop back. Is it just a thing of the internet rooting for him?

And I question if the industry is going to look at as fondly as at his filmography of things like the mummy blasts from the past and, you know, the likes of that and not be snobby. we've had this argument several times off mic so i want to i want to without rehashing it exactly right right right put it out i'm just saying this for our listeners put it out there for our listeners i think there could be snobbery at play that has nothing to do with the performance i don't think i agree with you necessarily that the enthusiasm for fraser is purely internet based i think you can see it in the ovation that he got at venice i think you can see it in the ovation that he got at tiff these are industry people these are people who it's you know audience and industry, but there is a

warmness to him. I think on the idea that he didn't make highbrow enough movies when he was popular, I think McConaughey... I mean, the whale isn't highbrow either. Right, but I think McConaughey showed that you can have a comeback without having been a darling

of the snob set and still have it work for you, especially if the story of your comeback is strong enough. I think he has an incredibly sympathetic personal story to tell. And I think it's going to carry him a long way. I also feel like, with the exception of Colin Farrell, best actor does not seem to have a whole lot of strong contenders. I think you could end up

with nominees like Austin Butler for Elvis, which I would be thrilled for, or Bill Nye for living, which we'll talk about in a second. And I don't know if I see a ton of wind momentum in this category that, unless Colin Farrell barnstorms at which I would love, I feel like Fraser is at the very least, has a lot of sympathy behind him. And I also feel like the whale getting knocked around at this stage of the game could set it up for a sympathetic wave of people who see it later and are like, what are people talking about? It's not that bad.

And Fraser is excellent. It is that bad, though. But I think it's a movie that's going to upset people. I mean, it's certainly the prospect of it upsets me enough that I don't want to watch unless I absolutely have to. So I don't think that you're wrong there. But I also feel like you're going to find some people who want to run counter to this narrative.

And I think he will benefit from that. Listen, I don't feel uncomplicated about it. I want the absolute best for him. But I also, being someone who tries to be a realist about some of these things, it's not the type of a performance that wins best actor Oscars. It doesn't really have a character arc.

Like, it's, I mean, this is a dig against the movie, not necessarily him. It's kind of just a flagellation. It is, I don't know. Yeah. Well, Bill Nye, however. Yeah, I was going to say, you seem to think Bill Nye can win this. I saw living at Sundance, and I was very muted on my thoughts about how far this could go, even though I thought he was quite good. You seem to be very bullish on his chances.

Especially if Sony Classics redirects after the reception of the sun and Hugh Jackman is somewhat cleared out of the way, I definitely think people are underestimating Bill Nye to say the least. And Sony Classics is incredible at running a campaign like this for an older actor who has not gotten their recognition before. It's a remake of Kurosawa's Ikiru if people didn't remember from Sundance, and he is playing the lead. He's a man who receives a fatal diagnosis after spending his life working in a bureaucratic environment, and he's just reflecting on his life and how he wants to have purpose while he still has a life. And there's a scene where he, like, I even got emotional at Banshees where it's like they do like those old pub shanty songs or whatever. And he, Bill Nyey sings, and it's like he can't even open his eyes. And Bill Nye, shockingly, has a beautiful voice.

It's a great scene. And I was just so moved by it. It's a great scene. This, however, in the way that I say the whale is not a performance, the type of performance on a character level on the way that the character functions in a movie and what their character arc is isn't the type of thing that win people Oscars, the absolute opposite of true is true of Bill Nye and living. I wish I could agree with you I think he's tremendous in the movie I think the movie's good I think it's so...

Yeah, the movie's not as good I think the movie is also it's small, it's quiet It's not a bad movie but it's... No. It could be stronger. It's small, it's quiet, it's not... I worry about its ability

to hold people's attention during a very busy awards season and I also feel like with the opposite of Fraser I think we love Bill Nye And I think people we know really love him I wonder if his appeal is more niche Than we it would need to be to win an Oscar

Especially in the acting branch though of the Oscars There is a huge British contingent And I do think that they are very smart to release living Late so that they can campaign it hot and heavy Right before voting I think he's got they did with the father Yeah Like, it's exactly what they did with Penelopee Cruz for Parallel Mothers.

I've at least changed my tune from Sundance, and I now think he has a very, very good chance at a nomination. I think people have latched onto it more than I thought that they would, and I do feel like he has a very good chance to nomination. I still feel like winning is maybe a bridge too far for me right now. To me right now, it feels like Richard Jenkins and The Visitor, one of those kind of things where the nomination will be the reward. But... I ultimately think probably... I'd love it. Though right now, my sense is that Colin Farrell could be the winner.

He very well could be. The momentum is definitely on his side. Okay, so other things that could score in certain categories at the Oscars that we saw, Empire of Light, which is the new Sam Mendez movie, with Olivia Coleman playing a woman living in, I believe it's Margate, a seaside town in England, in what year is it? It's the... It's 80 to 81.

Thank you. Right, because all that jazz is still in theaters. Yes, she's coming off of, you can, you get the sense that she's coming off of this hard time in her personal life. She works at a movie theater that was once this sort of grand palace of a movie theater, and now it's somewhat less so, but it's still trying to hold on to its, you know, it's charm and appeal. and there is a younger man who starts to work there at the theater, and they become... Played by Michael Ward. Right, played by Michael Ward. They become close.

I kind of expected to be enthralled by this movie. I feel like I didn't dislike it, but to me it felt like it left a lot on the table that I really wanted it to... I really wanted it to go sort of full bore with the majesty of this movie house. there's this scene early on where they sort of go into the upper floor of the now unused sort of top two theaters at this at this movie house that also has this grand ballroom sort of thing and I had a lot of architectural questions about this building same but I also feel like I feel like Mendez doesn't do enough to sort of present that with this faded glory like I don't No, I didn't, I had such bigger expectations for it.

Coleman's fantastic. I think Coleman probably will get a best actress nomination for this. The Oscar voters love her. If Oscar is as underwhelmed with this movie, I could see her not getting nominated, but maybe. Right now, I think she's fine. I think she's a contender. She'll be fine.

I don't, I wouldn't expect a Michael Ward nomination. I've seen that sort of being bandied about. I don't think that's going to happen. No, not Toby Jones, which I had hoped for. I suppose I could see a world in which other people like this movie a lot more than I do, and it gets a best picture. One of those like seven, eight, nine, ten slots on the... It's also being pushed by Searchlight, which Banshees will probably be their top priority,

but Searchlight is very good at this. Yes, yes. So I wouldn't count it out, but I'm just saying it was underwhelming for me. It's kind of a soup. It never really fully develops all of the many things it's trying to do, including being a tribute to the movie-going experience, and yet, like, those scenes that were about that, I thought were the best stuff of the movie. I loved Toby Jones in this movie. I thought he was great. He's the sort of...

Yeah, I just wish there was more of him. He's the representative of the magic of cinema community. He's the projectionist in this thing, and he has some really good scenes. Yeah. I don't think it says with any clarity what this, it tries to approach the political moment of Britain at this exact time, but, like, is very vague about doing it. I think its mental health stuff is kind of vague beyond the really good performance by Olivia Coleman. And I don't know. It's trying to do a lot of things.

It doesn't really ever tie them together very well. But it's never less than watchable, I will say. While we were at TIF, Laura Poitris' All the Beauty and the Bloodshed won the top prize at Venice. It had screened at Tiff by then. The momentum behind this movie as a documentary feature frontrunner, I think, is significant. I think it has a real chance of just running away with that category. It was one of my favorite movies of the festival. What's it about?

Not my favorite that also played Venice, but I do love. love this as a golden lion winner so much. Yeah. I'm skeptical on it being a documentary frontrunner, A, because Laura Poitras has already won, and we've seen so many examples now of if you win, they won't even nominate you again in the documentary branch. In terms of like portraiture documentary, because it follows Nan Golden, it has such a wide reach and feels like it services.

all of the things it touches. It approaches the opioid epidemic. It approaches Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family as well, but it also deals with opioid addiction. It deals with her personal family. It deals with her personal artistry. And the ways that maybe it kind of in a thorny way feels like it withholds on some of those topics, it does so because Nan Golden herself is withholding on them, perhaps, in a way that is fascinating, but doesn't exactly prevent the movie from becoming satisfying. I was incredibly moved by it. Yeah, I'll be seeing it at New York Film Festival, and I'm very, very excited to see it. So much of the movie is like the photography slideshows that she presents and that, like, you'll have these long sequences that are just

like slideshows of her photography, but it's also with her commentary and her, narration that is immensely compelling. And the photos are well selected to that in a way that, like, you can see the version of this movie that's not as good, but I was completely impressed by this. Yeah. Another movie that I was very excited to see was Wendell and Wilde, which is an animated movie from director Henry Selleck, who directed The Nightmare Before Christmas, and Coraline. And this is this first feature that he's directed since Coraline.

This is another Netflix movie. They, I believe, are maybe going to have the top two contenders in animated feature. This is probably not one of the top two contenders. Which kind of sucks because you really want it to be Wendell and Wilde, and you want that to be the priority. And it'll probably be Guillermo del Toros Pinocchio. But this is a movie about a young girl, orphaned young girl, her parents have died in a very beetlejuice-esque, I think, car accident. This movie made me think of Beetlejuice in quite a few moments. But in a good way. It's his tribute to his old collaborator, Tim Burton.

She, after a sort of rough adolescence, she's, you know, sent to this boarding school in her original hometown, which is now this rust-belty rundown. I think it's called like Rust Creek or something like that. Very sort of like industrial wasteland hometown. She's sent to this Catholic boarding school. And at the same time, she has brought. to the attention of these two underworld demons named Wendell and Wilde. They're voiced by Keegan Michael Key and Jordan Peel. Jordan Peel co-wrote the screenplay and it's also producing the movie. And they, she is some sort of conduit that they can use to, their ultimate goal,

see, this is the thing. The narrative has eight billion things going on. Their ultimate goal is to start an amusement park in the underworld. They work on the scalp of their demon father, like growing little hair sprouts with this little hair cream. The hair cream can raise the dead. The school is run by a priest who's trying to maneuver politically with these two sort of industrialists, right, property baron, people who are trying to turn the town into this like industrial prison, like prison for profit sort of thing. Also, there's a nun at the school voiced by Angela Bassett, who is some kind of

demon fighting entity so many things are going on in this movie eight billion things but it looks everybody wants to talk about maximalist cinema now and like this is good maximalist cinema there is too much happening too much is happening but it looks tremendous if you've ever seen a henry selic animated movie it is a feast for the eyes and it's there's just imagery upon imagery upon imagery. I think the young main character is such a, this, you know, like young black girl who is styled in this very sort of like punk aesthetic and she's, you know, I don't know, she's just a tremendous protagonist with everything else, even though there's eight billion things going on. I don't know. I was very much entranced by it, even though I was like, what is

happening. What is the story? What are we supposed to? Where are we moving towards? What's the motivating factor towards the end of this movie? And yet just like, sometimes just like, oh, but look at all that's going on in front of your eyes in this movie. The character animation is tremendous. The sort of environment animation of like creating this town is really cool. It's all very high angles and sharp angles and everybody's sort of pointy and gothic. And I don't know. There's a set of mean girls that are very, very funny. Yes, they are.

The one thing in the movie that you maybe want more of that the movie doesn't give you too much of. Yeah, I liked it a lot. So I'm hoping it will be a contender and best animated feature. I think Henry Selleck

deserves to have an Oscar by now. If you have an animated feature category, you've honored, I feel like that category has over the years honored a lot of the greats. You know, Miyazakis and Nick Park. and, you know, all the Pixar folks, Pete Docter and such, and Henry Selleck should have an Oscar alongside all of them.

So I don't know if it'll happen this year, but I'm hoping for it. One of the last things you and I saw at TIF, we caught a later screening of it, actually, as it was in theaters, so we could have seen it at the regular, regular multiplex, was the woman king, Gina Prince Bythwood's the woman king, The movie I really thought had a really strong chance at people's choice. I mean, I could have seen a version of people's choice that went down that way. It is a banger of a movie, as if I could describe it that way. It is really good.

It's open in theaters now. I am very invested in as many people as possible going to see it. If you have not seen this movie yet, get a ticket and go to a theater. It is a great theatrical movie. It is a movie that's a huge movie like this. can't make a shit ton of money, we're so fucking doomed. It's, yeah. This movie could not be more satisfying.

I mean, I have minor quibbles with the, like, antagonist characters that I'm like, I don't, I could see less of them. I don't, I'm not as interested in them as I am and everybody else. It certainly adds another layer of story that it doesn't necessarily feel like it needs, but, like, that they did not drag on me. Also, there's a connect, without spoiling. there is a connection that is discovered between two characters that as that was happening, I was like, oh, I don't need this.

I don't need this in this movie. And yet, by the end of the movie, it does so well with the emotional stakes of that, that I'm like, absolutely, this makes full sense that this is in this movie. Viola Davis plays a general, I mean, this movie's in theater, so you've seen this trailer, whatever. But also, if you thought the trailer gave you pause as to whether it was going to be good, don't worry, it gave me the same pause, and it's so much better than the trailer suggests. The reason that it's a bad trailer is it's hiding all the good shit.

Yeah, I mean, I also feel like... It's saving all the good shit for people to see it in the movie. It's also doing bad tonal things, though. And it's making it look like a music video, and this movie is not a music video. It's just a really robust action epic. Volo Davis plays this general of this all-female regiment in Africa in the early 1800s. Lashana Lynch plays her essentially like she's what she's in charge of the training essentially

and she's just so good she's like badass too but it's also like she does really she acts with her eyes so tremendously well she wields her intensity so well and the star of Underground Railroad Tuso Mabedu

is so so good in this I've seen talk of maybe trying to push her in supporting actor she is the co-lead of the movie it's her and Viola Davis sort of like split time

as the lead of this movie Oscar prospects for this movie I think hinge on how big of a popular success it could be which is a bummer unfortunately too because like watching it I was like this is one of the other movies I felt like could be a best picture nominee

yes I think but it needs to be a sensation it needs to be a Mad Max style groundswell for it as a popular success. And unfortunately, that then leaves a lot of things up to things that are not in our control to do. And so I want people to see it. I also just feel like this should, this is the kind of movie that should be nominated in a whole bunch of craft's categories. Right. Well, I maybe slightly disagree with you that it needs the box office to be like a costume design nominee, a production design nominee, but to be like a

best picture nominee, it needs to make a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's a fundamentally mainstream movie. Yes. And the success of it, unfortunately, will be qualified because it is a mainstream movie by how much money it makes.

Right, right. Unfortunately, we've seen that kind of thing in the past, even in a very different type of movie, but like this is why in the Heights ends up, you know, in the heights flopping as a box office entity, basically canceled it out of the awards conversation. And I think sometimes when you are being pushed as a crowd pleaser, box office movie, if you don't fulfill those expectations, then everything else sort of falls

apart. So, um, speaking of falling apart, my policeman. Neither one of us saw it, so I don't really think we can talk about it too much but also it was like that movie very much came and went in terms of people could not have hit the festival at a worst time where it's like a lot of press who were there were getting ready to leave and they had seen a lot and they were tired and well and also harry styles at this point is harry styles at this point is so like uh toxic in not necessarily in and of himself, but, like, people were so sick of talking about him after the whole don't worry darling stuff that people were, like, pre-weary of this movie because they didn't want to have to wait into yet another Harry Styles thing. I think by the time the movie

premiered, we had already seen the whole, like, Harry Styles shouldn't be an actor thing, and like we felt like the movie was very much kind of dead on arrival. And then the actual seeing of the movie didn't do very much to revive it. So we don't really need to talk about it very much, because neither one of us sought. International feature implications at this festival, I thought, were pretty high, especially because while we were there, we had heard that France has narrowed down their shortlist to the film that they are going to submit to International Feature to, I believe it was a shortlist of five, but everybody basically assumed that it's between St. Omer, which was my last thing

that I saw at the festival, from Alice Diop, and One Fine Morning, which is a movie from Mia Hansen Love which had played St. Omer one... Which we both saw day one. Yes, yeah. One Fine Morning had played In Certain Regard at Cannes.

Director's Fortnite, actually. Fuck, I'm always wrong about that shit. All right. And then St. O'Mere won a prize at Venice while we were also... It got second place. And it was my second favorite of the festival. Yeah, I'm hoping...

I liked One Fine Morning. I love Mia Hansen Love. I think she's a tremendous filmmaker. She'll have her moment, I'm hoping. I think this... I think Sam... I think San Omer is going to be the French submission, and I do feel it. It's significantly better.

I mean, like, I always want to root for Mia Hansen Love. I do have to say, One Fine Morning was maybe one of my disappointments of the festival purely because of the romantic storyline in that movie. I kind of thought couldn't be more boring, even though Leis Adieu is tremendous in the movie and does incredibly well in the romantic plotline in that movie. It's more, I mean, it's like, it's half. about her having this affair with a married man that could not be kind of more cliche and the other half about dealing with a parent who's experiencing dementia. Yeah. It was very sad. To me it was a

very sad movie. She's great. I just, I wanted more out of that movie. I was maybe oversold on it because some people out of Cannes were saying it was one of Mia Hansen loves best and I just can't agree with that. Saint-Omer, however, I thought was fucking tremendous. It's an incredibly well-made and very confident movie. This is a movie that will hold its camera on a character for very long scenes and really trust that actor and that character to keep you riveted and the gamble pays off because you are. And it is about a courtroom proceeding, in France, a young... Based on a true life court case.

Right, based on a true life case where a young mother drowned her daughter in the sea, and this is the murder trial for that, and there is a... She's a writer, right? She's working on a book, and this woman goes and is observing the court proceedings and at the same time reflecting on things about her own life, her own present circumstances, but also her own childhood. and her relationship with her mother, and what's it like to grow up with a mother

who is not capable of loving her child or is not capable of caring for her child in a certain way? And it's really, really, really well done, and I'm very kind of invested in it. Another one of the movies from the festival about understanding our parents. Yes, yes, very true. So I think that one's going to be a,

international feature contender if France does submit it. One movie that we both saw on the first day, that had played at Cann, that I have seen a lot of people talking about as a major contender at the Oscars as a possible

best picture contender. And I'm somewhat puzzled by that is decision to leave, the Park Chanwick movie, which is not a bad movie. But I'm wondering, it feels to me like the people I see who are talking about that movie as a possible Best Picture Contender can't have seen it because if you see this movie, and that's not like a dunk, it sounds

like a dunk, but it's not. I think it's people being reductive about the movie and not really knowing much about it. Well, it's like, I think it's people trying to call their shot on what's going to be the foreign language best picture nominee this year, because now there seems to be a slot for it, a slot in best director and a slot in best picture. And just because Drive My Car got a nomination last year does not mean that we are now going to have a, you know, a Park Chan Wook movie this year get nominated. Just because Bong Joon Ho won a couple years ago does not mean that it's like Park Chan Wook's turn now. Yeah, that's not how it is. And like this is also, Park Chan Wook's also a different kind of filmmaker who I don't think is as populist or maybe populace isn't even the right word, but as accessible.

as Bong Joon Ho's films are... I mean, this is a movie that I think takes a minute to become the thing that it is, and I maybe had a little less patience for it until it became what it ultimately is, and then I fucking loved it. See, that's funny, because I feel like I'm the opposite, where I was with it for a while, and then to me, it really started to repeat itself, and I was ready for this movie to be over a good 35 minutes before it was over. But what an ending?

See, I don't know. I think I was, by the ending, I was out on it. Not out, just sort of not as enthralled with it. It's still, to me, it's a three, three and a half star movie. I don't know. Maybe I think I might have overrated it because of its reputation, and I feel like I'm maybe a dumb dumb for not liking it very much. But like I also saw it at the very beginning of the festival and then saw 20 other movies. Yeah.

Like, you're a loud time to reflect on what you're watching. Yeah. I think Tongway is tremendous. We all know I'm in the tank for Tongway. Yeah, she's great in this movie. Yes, I agree. But, like, I would not expect a Best Picture nomination for this. I could be wrong.

I'm leaving that possibility. Other people could... It's also being distributed by Mooby, which, like, it's... Apparently, the plans are it's, like, the largest scale that they will probably release a movie yet. But, like, quite the unknown entity. in terms of Oscar. So I think calling a Best Picture nominee is quite a gamble. One movie I also thought maybe had pacing issues, but I think has elements that could really be very strong, is corsage, which is going to be, might be the Austrian entry, right in the foreign language.

It is. It is. Yes. empress elizabeth of austria am i getting all of those facts right and in a highly fictionalized modern eyes modern lens i should say right uh version uh or take on her as a character she's very good i could see this movie being a strong enough player in international feature where you could end up getting some overflow

appreciation for Creep's performance and depending on how deep best actress runs this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see her sort of operating on the fringes of that category. Right. And I mean, she's someone who probably will be nominated eventually.

Yes. That poster also really sells her as like a next big actress to deal with, to reckon with, right? Yeah. Yeah. I do think just because of what the movie is, I do think it probably has a decent chance at a nomination for the category, and then we'll see what narratives actually developed this year in terms of what could be winning, but like, I do think it has a strong chance. I think Vicky Creeps is significantly better than the movie. Yeah. I think so, too. But, I mean, yeah, she's incredibly fascinating to watch in this movie, as she always is. So just, now I want to sort of move into, like, things that we really liked that we don't think really have necessarily Oscar implications. You could tell me if I'm wrong, because two of these I did not see.

I will be seeing After Sun at the New York Film Festival. I will maybe be seeing the Eternal Daughter at New York Film Festival. You saw them both at Tiff. You loved at least one of them. I think you loved both. Over the moon for both of them. Okay. Before we move on from International Feature, I should also say, I see.

all the I think it's the Icelandic submission but it could be a different country godland which has resonant

the revenant silence vibes but like I maybe also don't understand international relations between Iceland and Denmark to really fully understand everything

that movie was doing if you told me somebody died making it I would believe you good movie strong movie I think it maybe had some like

limitations and familiarity that like kept me back once I really thought about it but um there's that to look out for janus is releasing it so it could be a nominee um two movies you're talking about are after son and the eternal daughter yes again both movies about trying to understand our fucking parents um eternal daughter no question it's my favorite movie i saw at the festival it's Joanna Hog following up both souvenir films with a movie that plays alongside them, though it is very different because Tilda Swinton is playing once again both a stand-in for Joanna Hogg's mother and this time playing a stand-in for Joanna Hogg herself. They are going to this mansion in the English countryside for a holiday, and slowly over time you realize it is the younger

Tilda Swinton's kind of last stab at understanding her mother and her background and where she came from while she feels like she has the ability to do so. And yet it's all occurring within this very gothic surrounding. I mean, I'm already in the tank for a movie with several shots of a mansion covered in fog. But just a very unique film in terms of what it is doing tonally. The way that it gets to, it's really incredible emotional effect and the performance performances I should say from Tilda Swinton at the center of it

also have a quality of slow reveal but the slow reveal of a very deep emotional well and I guess kind of this idea if the movie seems like a ghost story but like how are we the ghost of our parents how are we, you know, the ghost of things that have happened to us in the past, I guess, to be so

kind of broad and obvious about it. It's the first time I've ever gone to TIF and felt a real pull of, I might go see this again while I'm here, but I didn't do it. I didn't want to be gauche. I don't think A24 is releasing it until next year, but I really hope people give it a shot when they see it, when they can. I still need to do my souvenir weekend and watch both of the souvenirs, and then I will watch the Eternal Daughter after that. I wouldn't think you would need to see the souvenir to fully appreciate the Eternal Daughter, though, like, to see the symmetry between them and how Joanna Hogg has made three very different movies that are all auto-fictional is incredibly fascinating. And I think each of those movies has gotten increasingly better. After Sun, however, was a movie that I basically out of Can got some of the best reviews.

It played Critics Week, and I believe won the Critics Week section. A24 is distributing it sometime this year. My fear is that it's going to be dumped the way that funny pages and reportedly stars at noon are going to be because it's not the most obvious cell right now for a theatrical experience, but it's probably the most or the biggest emotional wallop I had all festival. It's another slow reveal movie to reveal what it's doing.

It is, Paul Muscal plays a young father taking his daughter, who is a stand-in for the director. On a vacation in Turkey, he is clearly going through a time mentally and emotionally, but his young preteen daughter, who is the eyes of the movie, kind of goes through a slow reveal of that.

You have some, like, you know, young coming-of-age stuff, but the movie is ultimately building to this understanding of the character's father in a way that I wouldn't fully want to spoil, but, like, absolutely devastated me. So I haven't seen this movie but I'm curious how you feel like it after sun functions as a sequel to the sun. Well, I did see the sun after I saw after sun. You saw the sun after sun after sun.

Same day. Much in the same way, I was curious how Brother functioned as a sequel to Bros. Right. Brother with a really great Aaron Pierre performance. I didn't love it as much as I love the book. After Sun, though, I did not just say anything unique about it that was not set at that movie it can. It felt like everybody was saying, it emotionally destroyed me. Here's basically the setup, and no one had anything else unique beyond that to say.

Neither do I, unfortunately. And I think it's because people who respond to this movie are trying to present. preserve it as much as we can within our hearts and allow it to reveal itself to other people. Well, it'll be revealing itself to me in a couple weeks, so I'm excited for that. One movie that I saw that I don't believe you did that I really liked, and I can't guarantee you will like it, but was Sanctuary, which stars Christopher Abbott and Margaret Qualley.

She is a sex worker who works in form. She, you know, dabbles in the genres of domination and, you know, the power dynamics in her sex work. Chris Abbott is this young sort of proto-CEO, CEO, sort of inheriting the company that his father left to him when he died, working out his own feelings of inatt. And also, like, it's one of those things where you see the setup to the movie and you're like, I understand the dynamics in play here. Like, I know what's going on. And yet as it plays out, it becomes, it doesn't become different. But like, it's, it's so much more compelling than what you think it's going to be. Margaret Qualley in particular is really good going through these sort of versions of. character she wants to play, and then how much of this is herself and how much of, you know,

this is herself as somebody she's trying to be. And then, you know, it's not quite a movie that keeps you wondering, is this real? Are we in, are we in, you know, play acting territory or not? And yet it does use those elements to really good degree. It's essentially a movie that takes place within a hotel room, it very much, it's not based on a play, but it very much could have been, you know, a one-room play kind of thing. I love movies like that. This is my question about the movie, because Christopher Rabbit

tends to do so many of those, like, acting exercise movies. I really love him. I tend to love him in general. I think he's great in this. I am not sure when this movie is going to come out. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come out till next year. I also

don't know who has it. Hold on. I don't think it has distribution. I don't think it has either. The writer-director is... Oh, sorry, it was directed by Zachary Wygonne. It was written by Michael Bloomberg. We'll be interested to see where it lands.

Would not surprise me if it ends up on any of the streamers. I'm not entirely sure exactly even. I could see this as a Netflix movie. I could see this, honestly, as, like, a peacock movie or a Hulu movie. You know what I mean? Like, it's... Tamming praise. I don't mean it that way.

I just mean just, like, the way that the landscape is these days, like, it feels like it's, like, that's where it's going to end up. I mean, the landscape is such that Midnight Madness Audience Award winner, Weird, the Al Yankovic story is, as I kept calling it, Roku original. It is, and I would... Roku original, weird. Highly recommend you check it out on Roku when it does premiere, because it's very funny. I had a very good time with Weird Al. Yeah, so one other thing I wanted to bring up, it was a movie that we... both saw that I think we both thought was better than we were expecting coming into the festival,

which is Causeway, which remind me of the director of this movie again. I can never remember her name. Lisa Nugabauer. Yes. This movie has been on the horizon for a while. I make my little spreadsheets. Since before the pandemic. Yeah. The beginning of each year, I sort of make my little spreadsheets about what's expected and what's in development and what might be coming down the bike, and this movie, which was originally going to be titled Red, White, and Water. Water. Yes, thank you. Right. Red white and from Canada

Water. Has been in the works for a while. So it finally came out. It's Jennifer Lawrence playing this woman returning from, she's an enlisted woman returning from Afghanistan, where she got wrecked by an IED, and she has

brain, she had a traumatic brain injury, essentially. She's recovering from that. she's hoping to recover enough to go back. She wants to go back to Afghanistan, in large part, because she's not really adjusting to life very well here. She has a family life that she does not seem to want to linger with. And at the same time, she strikes up a friendship with Brian Tyree Henry,

who plays this guy who runs an auto shop and she needs to have her car repaired, and they have this friendship that sort of blossoms from there. It is, Chris, as you mentioned, as we walked out of the screening, a sterling example of one of your favorite genres. Friendship cinema. This is Friendship Cinema. Brian Tyree Henry and Jennifer Lawrence, together, are really, really good. I was very, very happy with their screen chemistry.

And not necessarily, like, it's both more and different than what you expect. And yet, like, before we saw it, I was like, everybody that's like, they're me or, like, half in the tank responses to it, I was like, this sounds like something I'm gonna like. And like, while I do think that the very minor key of this movie is part of what I like about it,

I do also understand it as kind of a complaint. It's not a movie that doesn't have cliches to it, but I do think the things that might come across as cliche are really kind of from the feet up justified and explored within the movie, you know? But, like, I don't, it's not a movie that's going to reinvent the wheel for anyone. Right.

Tremendous. But, like, that being said, and maybe some of it was diminished expectations, because we knew that this was a movie that had extensive reshoots. From the Vogue profile with Jennifer Lawrence, it sounds like during the pandemic, they basically kind of reconceptualized the movie. you can definitely tell what was there before and what, you know, was reshot, probably. Not always to the downside. I mean, there's also certain things like Samira Wiley was supposed to be in this movie and is now not there at all.

Interesting. This movie does feature both Linda Imand and Jane Houdishel. So if you are... And Stephen McKinley Henderson. And Stephen McKinley Henderson. It is very, like, New York Theater elite. I was going to say, if you are into it, a movie with a lot of New York theater actors

in small roles. This is the movie for you. I imagine it won't open until next year, but I don't know. No, it's opening this year. Oh, it is. Apple's Apple is releasing it in theaters in November, I believe. But you can imagine that's not going to be

a huge theatrical release, and it's more so meant for the platform. We'll see how the year shakes out. I mean, I'm so desperate for a Brian Tyree Henry nomination, and he is so good in this. I wouldn't count on it, but he is very good. If it doesn't happen, it's fully because

it's a movie that's going to have a hard time. Fighting for attention. Yeah. It's just, it's a very, I mean, like, valuably so, because it's more about getting into the dynamic of these two characters. And I think some of the things that might

have people's guard up about it is actively kind of approached in the movie. Yeah. But, again, it's a very minor key movie. I want to really quickly sort of run through a handful of movies. Everybody asks us when we go to these festivals. Like, what are the movies that are going to be future this had Oscar buzz movies?

Which are the ones that are going to be blanked, essentially? And it's definitely a way of looking at the festival that I don't always want to. I always sort of hope for success and guard against ours. Yeah, we want to be optimistic first. And I also have an odd, my past. pessimism surfaces in ways where I'm like, well, the whale will probably get nominated. So, you know what I mean? It's just like I envision more success for things that I don't like.

And then I want to root for the success of things that I do like. And so, but I think there were a few. I jotted down a movie we neither one of us saw, which is Peter Farrely is the greatest beer run ever, starring Zach Ephron, which played very, very late in the festival. And of course, I had the same exact festival run as Green Book. Exactly, exactly. And so I was bracing myself for like, listen, on paper, it doesn't seem like much. And yet, you know. And yet it could be the People's Choice Award winner, which it did not. And unlike Green Book, though, after it premiered, I really heard no one talking about it. Like, you heard these weird whispers about Green Book at the time that it was like it played through the roof or whatever. But I heard truly nothing about Greatest Beer Run ever. Right. And so I could see that being a movie we do in the future and sort of be able to. to talk about the weirdness. I think it gives us at least a chance to talk about the weirdness of the Green Book run

and also talk about Zach Efron, and we don't have a ton of opportunities to do that. We've already done our episode on the Paperboy, so... Listen, I am already at a fever pitch for the Sean Durkin movie. Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, of course, the Sean Durkin movie. I saw Triangle of Sadness as the first movie of my festival. This was, of course, the Cannes Palm Door winner from Ruben Osland. I quite liked it.

I do not expect it to show up on the Oscar ballot at all. I couldn't disagree with you more. You think it will get nominated? I'm not so certain, like dead certain, that I think you're completely up a creek here. I understand why there would be hesitancy. I saw it in a public screening, and I saw it at the Princess of Wales, so I saw it in, like, the biggest venue. And it played through the roof, including at the parts that I kind of did. despised it.

I think we have the potential to have, like, the weirdest best picture nominee that we've had in a while. Oh, you think this is a best picture contender. Oh, wow. I think it's a best picture contender. I think it's a director contender. I think it's the screenplay contender. And I think Dolly De Leon is a contender and supporting actress. And I would be so happy if she got it.

This is a movie that, like, I went from outright despising it to thinking it was a masterpiece, to thinking it was fine, to thinking it was a to thinking that it couldn't be more obvious and unfunny constantly within the span of every five minutes. So, like... See, to me, it's a much more regimented thing where I thought the beginning, I was into it and intrigued. The middle I loved and I thought was savagely hilarious. And then I think the final third of it, again, just repeats all the points that it had made and feels very superfluous. and that is where the performance of, remind me of her name again?

Daly Dillian. Daly Dillian. Her performance shows up in that final third, and she is very good, but I think the movie is maybe better without that section of the movie, so it's tough for me to sort of, you know, get on board. And I disagree because I think

each section of the movie is progressively better. Interesting. Yeah, I did not like to get in that movie. I think she along with it. I think she's definitely the MVP. of the movie. I think it's probably an editing nominee. Wow, all right.

Yeah. Well, there is a significant... I think there's a lot of potential for this movie. And I, and I, there's a significant backlash to the movie that I don't think would necessarily matter to its Oscar chances, but like a lot of the critics who are seeing it in Toronto for the first time after all of that can expectation did not seem to like it very. much and found it smug. I mean, I saw a lot of those reactions calling it smug, calling it obvious out of Cannes too. While I think it is those things, I don't always think that it prevents it from being good. There are sometimes where it wholeheartedly makes it a bad movie, but then

there's also times that are really great. I think my feeling about it was seeing it in a packed house and a huge venue and seeing how well it went down. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, And, like, because it was like a public screen, I think, like, this is a movie that can appeal kind of broadly. It can appeal to high-minded people that can appeal to low-minded people. I think there's a lot of potential. All right. One that I think is definitely too small to show up as an Oscar nominee,

and thus we definitely could end up doing an episode on it. Even though its Oscar buzz is mostly on paper and not much in practice, is Sebastian Lelio's The Wonder, which we saw together. Florence Pugh plays a new. nurse in olden times? I'm not, I,

1700s? What's the, what's the, what's the time period that we're talking about? I don't think it's that far back, but yes. 1800s,

you're also talking about one of the problems of the movie. It could not be, for something so specific, it could not kind of approach it more. Well, and it sort of employs this odd framing device that almost,

you know, makes that superfluous. Which made me want to, flip my fucking chair. Yeah, it's a weird framing device. You know how much I hate it. It doesn't ultimately, it doesn't take a lot of time with it, so it was easy for me to sort of brush it aside, but it is annoying when it happens. I think Florence Pugh is quite good. But then it doesn't need to be there. She plays a nurse who was called upon to verify the truth of or not, this young girl who has apparently been fasting for months and is showing no ill effects. And it seems like

this town. A lot of people in this town are very invested in the idea that she might be a saint. And her family is sketchy and Florence is dubious. And I think it's a pretty good movie. I liked it. I think it moves. I think Lelio sort of keeps it at a good pace. I think the peculiarities of the story are told really well. I think Florence is good, although she's by this point given so many kind of spectacular performances that just this sort of workman-like good performance almost comes across as lesser or minor key but everything in the movie is too workman-like though like there should be and there are flashes of it that I was like oh this is where it's clicking into place yeah like it felt ultimately a little fleeting when that would happen yeah um there's nothing I mean

beyond that horrible framing device it's mostly just a movie that should be more tense more interesting, more peculiar than it ultimately is. Like, I found little to grapple onto it to even kind of recognize it as a Sebastian Lelio movie. Yeah.

I see that. I hear that. But there's not really anything beyond that framing device that I would say is bad. It's just, it's a lot of unrealized potential. Yeah. No, you're not wrong.

It'd be an interesting one to do for us because it lets us talk about Lelio. And when we talked about Gloria Bell, we didn't do a ton on Lillio. Let's us talk about Florence. It's not a particularly thrilling movie. So, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see if

we end up doing that one at any point. But anyway, any others that you would throw in to the mix there? Let me pull up my list and see if there's anything we haven't talked much about. One of my favorite things that happened during the festival

during the press screening of Jafar Panahi's No Bears, which was excellent. The digital print kind of sputtered and stopped, and it took a while for us to realize whether or not it was Panahi doing a Panahi flourish and punking us, but it was not. That's funny. Did you sing No Bears to the tune of No Dames from Hell Caesar like I constantly am doing, or no? I sang it to the tune of Alicia Keys' note one. All right. We've been talking about this for quite a while.

Perhaps we should wrap it up. Another, it was really, really great to be back to TIF for the first time in three years. One million percent. It was wonderful to spend two glorious weeks with you, my friend. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Really, we had, you know, it was, I was worried about what the vibes would be three years later, three years and one pandemic later. and yet it really felt like falling back into a lot of those old rhythms.

It felt like the festival was back. Some of my faves from TIF's past were not there this year, and I'm hopeful that they will maybe be there at future ones because it is about the movies, but it's also the sort of camp, you know, back-to-camp feeling of, you know, seeing all my old friends. So hopefully more TIFs to come, but it was great. and saw some really good movies,

and I'm really pumped for the award season now as we go along. It'll be exciting to see how things play out. Indeed. All right. We have a lot to see almost immediately. Exactly. All right. Well, Chris, that can be our episode.

Listeners, if you want more this at Oscar Buzz, you can check out the Tumblr at this at oscarbuzz.com. You should also follow our Twitter account at Had underscore Oscar Buzz. Chris, where can the listeners find you and your stuff and your... I am on Twitter. Chris F-E-File and also Letterbox at KrispyFile. That's F-E-I-L. Yeah, I was letterboxing it up throughout the festival at Joe Reed. Reed-spelled REID. My Twitter is the exact same.

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