This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 014 / Navigating Career Uncertainty With Sarah Henning

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

Nicole welcomes guest Sarah Henning, Founder and Lead Consultant at Shiftive, to walk us through how to find the right career opportunity for you. Timely information during this COVID crisis, Sarah shares valuable resources to find employers who are hiring NOW. Whether you’ve been laid off and are forced to look for a new career, you are uncertain what the future holds for your current career, or you’re just looking to keep options open for new opportunities - Sarah shares her tips on how to find the job that taps into your FULL potential. Finding work you love, that lights you up from within so that you can set fire to your career, our community and our world is so important. There is no better time than the present. This is Woman’s Work To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Sarah Henning, founder and lead consultant for Shiftive, talks about light bulb moments. She describes these light bulb moments as when deeply held beliefs and values meet new perspectives or experiences, ultimately creating a brand new and deeper understanding of yourself and what you have to offer the world. Is your career offering you these light bulb moments? Sarah is going to talk us through her experience being on both sides of the career search. She works with a lot of organizations and recruiters on helping to bring in quality candidates, but she also works with people who are career searching

and helping them prep and think about what might be the best career for them and what's the best way to land that job. So she has so many perspectives to provide here. And we thought this was particularly timely with everything going on in the world right now with the coronavirus. Some of us may be forced to think about other career opportunities just because of what's going on. Some of us might be feeling uncertain or not sure what the future holds in your industry or your career. And some of us just like to keep our options open and think about what new opportunities might be out there. Regardless of where you're at today, I know you're going to get a ton out of Sarah's perspective and experience, uh, and helping people find and connect with these dream careers and these light bulb moments. So Sarah, thank you

so much for joining us. Um, I'm so excited to have you. I said this earlier, you're literally one of my favorite people to follow on social media. So thanks. Thanks for joining us. And tell us a little bit more about these light bulb moments. What does it mean? And how do we find them professionally? Yeah, so I actually started using this term because when I started my actually before I started my career, I was on track to be a teacher. I have an education degree and always thought I'd go back to teaching, but spent a lot of time in the classroom and with kids learning through my practicums and things of that nature. And one of the things that I loved the most was you could see a physical reaction when kids all of a sudden got something. My favorite was when they were learning how to read. It was like, boom, I got it. And it was a culmination of confidence in their ability, the true connection to the skill that they were developing, knowing that they were doing the right thing and belief in themselves that they could do it. Right. And it was like, boom, I get

it. And so I, I always loved seeing that in kids. And when I moved into the professional business world, I got to, I realized you can see people having those light bulb moments along the way. Sometimes it can be in the midst of working on a project. It happens in brainstorming sessions. It happens when you're trying to problem solve a lot. And oftentimes it comes with a great idea that you know all of a sudden is going to solve a problem or most commonly true connection to some kind of value that a person knows they can bring to the table, right? So when we personally have these light bulb moments about ourselves, it's this sudden realization of the things that you know to be true about the unique value that you bring into a given situation.

And so it's really having deeper understanding and learning and ongoing knowledge about yourself and who you are and what you can contribute. So that's why I say I live for light bulb moments, because when you can actually see it happening for someone and you've helped cultivate that for them, I just feel like there's nothing better in the world. It's the very best part of my job and what I get to do with people and the work we do together. I love how you shared how you came up with that. I mean, JJ's six years old and literally learning

to read right now. And so as you were saying that, I was like, oh, I know exactly what you're talking about, that look on their face. And I love the connection to us as adults being able to have those moments too. Yeah. It's always fun to stay connected to the things I think that make us feel like a kid. And learning, I think, is something that people take for granted a lot. That when we're learning and we're growing, that's one of the best ways to stay connected to that sort of childlike enthusiasm for life. Because when you're a kid, it's all about learning and growing, right? It's kind of forced. You're forced to literally be growing up and forced learning through school. And if you can enjoy that and really savor it, um, as an adult, it makes it even more fun. So. Yeah. Plus I love asking kids, what do you want to be when

you grow up? And the answer changes like minute by minute or day by day. Like, um, JJ is convinced currently that she, uh, wants to be a dolphin trainer. And so she's watching all these SeaWorld dolphin videos right now. And, you know, who knows what she's going to want to be tomorrow. But I think, you know, as tough and challenging of a time that we're living in right now, and I don't think we've seen anything from a career uncertainty standpoint similar since 2008, right? Right. Some of us might be revisiting the question, what do I want to be when I grow up or what's next for me? Or might be recognizing something about the industry they're in or the career that they're in might not feel as

stable or they might not feel as confident in their role. So share with us in your work, I'm sure you're talking about this hour by hour right now. How is our current environment? How is the coronavirus affecting people? How is it playing out in uncertainty or lack of confidence? Just kind of give us some of your experiences. Yeah. So I think it's interesting because obviously there's a little bit of time before this goes out to the audience. But where we're at right now nationally, generally speaking, everybody's like it feels like two week, the second week of the social distancing thing, with the exception of some of the hot spots that maybe have been in it a little bit longer.

So last week was chaos. Everybody was adjusting to their new norm and figuring out what it was. And there was a lot of excitement and chaos there. And that's when unfortunately we saw the first round of some of our layoffs happening in companies and industry. This week, it feels like we're settling into our routines a little bit more. And now what's coming into the conversation is people are starting, I think, to understand that what we thought was maybe going to be a two-week thing is going to be a longer-term thing, and we don't know how much longer that is. So I think what's happening from people from a career search perspective is that there are there is thought going into what does my what is my job going to look like? What's my career path? Maybe

better said, what is my career path forward going to look like? Because what does my job look like right now is all over the board because of that norm we're adjusting to, right? But then the bigger piece is what is my career going to look like? And I kind of see it, those thoughts happening in three different buckets. One is what is my career going to look like is happening out of need because their job has been eliminated, right? So now I got to figure out what's next. One is out of worry because there's so much unknown around what's going to happen with this virus, what's going to happen with our economy, what's going to happen with our economy, what's going

to happen with our ability to connect with consumer and client based on what we do. So there's some worry there because we don't know what direction we're headed with that. And then I think the third category that I'd say is there's people who are putting thought into their career out of empathy, that they might feel really confident with where they're at with their current job right now, but they're empathetic to people who have lost it or have to worry about it. And even if you feel confident with where you're at right now, anytime we see other people kind of going through that, we tend to say out of empathy, right? What would I do if that were me? And so I think that's also giving people from that empathetic standpoint pause to take a look at their careers. That's so well said. I didn't even really think

about myself as one of those buckets, but I very much see myself in that empathetic category. It's not worry and I'm not forced to make a decision. I feel very lucky and privileged in that way. But how do we help? How do we make a difference? And then of course, exactly what you said, I'm putting myself in their shoes thinking, what would I do? And no matter what, that lets some worry and concern seep in, right? Absolutely. So what are your, I don't know, tips or advice or thoughts for people in those buckets? So the biggest piece of advice that I want people to hear right now at this moment of time, and if you could hear me, I was clapping my hands for emphasis.

But then my biggest piece of advice is if you do not have to, don't make a quick decision. Decisions made in panic rarely serve us well, very rarely, only usually in life and death matters. So if it is life or death for you and your family to say yes to a job, that will serve you well. That means you need money right now and you have to say yes to the thing coming up for you. But if you've been laid off and you can take a minute to catch your breath and do some real assessment of you and your life and what you want your long-term career to be, you are much more likely to land in the spot you should be in to not only have a great job that's serving the financial needs of your life and your family and whoever's relying on you, but also the long-term vision you have for all of that. So not just the now, but the long-term. And we know from career satisfaction and productivity that those two things are tied together. So if you can take a beat, do the work to assess what the next right move should be, and then move forward.

You're much more likely to have long-term career happiness, longevity in that matter. So that's the first piece of advice that I would say. Don't make a decision unless you have to. That's so important. Yeah. The other piece that I would say right now that's it's really important for everybody, whether you are no matter which one of those three career, those sort of three buckets you fall into, you're thinking about your career out of need, out of worry or out of empathy is I always encourage people to always be connecting and networking. And I think this is important because I tell people all the time, we never know how our network is going to serve us. And so especially we've heard a lot about this right now while we're physically disconnected from each other, that staying connected relationally is important. We never

knew those relationships were going to serve our mental well-being in this way, right? You were like, these are my friends and I love them and I like hanging out with them, right? But now it might feel like a lifeline for you to stay mentally stable and connected to those people. Yeah. I see so many people doing virtual happy hours. I love it. up a lot. Like the visual I like to think about is, um, is a tight rope walker. You know how they have those nets underneath them and all those different knots in the net connecting it together. That's like your, each person is one of those knots creating that net for you. And ideally you're up there on the tight rope, just living your best life, walking across it. But God forbid something happened and you fall, you've got that network

that's going to cushion the blow somehow. We just don't know how it's, we just don't know where you're going to land on the net and how you're going to use it yet. I love that analogy. Yeah. So easy ways to keep networking right now that exist are, I would say professionally, I would be reaching out to two people a day on LinkedIn to either send them a message. It could be one of encouragement. It could be one asking for help. It could be one saying, like, what are you guys, how is your office working in this capacity and getting idea sharing? And then make one new connection to someone new. are, if you are connecting out of empathy right now, a great way to connect on LinkedIn is to look for people who are saying they are needing help. And if you can provide even on just a word of encouragement, or if you have an actual resource you can send their way, do those things. Because I think some of us that are feeling, for women especially, I think when that empathetic part kicks in, we want to help. That's a great way to help is to offer

resource instead of waiting for people to ask for it. So two connections a day on LinkedIn are great. And then socially, I think the social piece of it, and this could tie into your professional network too. I think there's a lot of blurred lines between our professional and personal network now. I actually love that. I would recommend having those virtual coffee dates or happy hours or whatever they are. Be very intentional about scheduling those, not just with groups, but also with people one-on-one. So I'd recommend at minimum, you're doing a group and a one-on-one virtual connection with people right now, once a week, and find time for it. I know that that it's like easier said than done.

But again, it's going to be a valuable part of your network and that those relationships that you're cultivating and you don't know how that's going to serve you during this time or in the future. So worth making the time for. Great advice. So how do you encourage people to think about what might be the right career fit for them? So if somebody is making the move out of necessity or just wanting to be prepared out of worry and they do have a minute, they do have a beat that they can take before, you know, going and jumping. And what are maybe a couple of things that we can do or that people can do to think about which direction to head or what might be the right career opportunity or where they could go that they might get these light bulb moments?

So the first thing that I think people need to do is start putting down on paper what they're thinking about. Because a lot of times what happens is we get lost in the emotion of how we feel about a situation that sometimes we can't recognize really clear and obvious themes and patterns. So I tell people start on the opposite ends of the spectrum. So the good old fashioned T chart, right? Two columns and start with not what you're good and you're bad at, what you love and what you hate about any jobs you've had in the past. What have you loved and what have you hated? So that's going to tell you where

you're going to be able to bring the most energy and the most enthusiasm to any kind of job, right? It's, it's the things you enjoy the most to the things, those are, said another way, those are your must haves and your deal breakers, right? Second T chart is, what are you really good at? What are you not good at? I'm going to always say that you should pair that with two other things. Assessments that you can take. So you could take, I like the Colby assessment a lot. If you haven't taken that before. I love the Myers-Briggs assessment. These are assessments that people are common with. The Enneagram right now seems like it's popular with a lot of people. Any assessment you take is good because it gets you out of your own head and its third party perspective of how you actually are hardwired or function or operate, right? So it gives another voice to what you're doing. The other thing that I would pair it with, this sort of self-analysis with, is I would pair it with feedback that you have gotten or you can get from other people. So go back and look at your performance evaluations, if you've had those, or notes you've taken from feedback sessions you've gotten from previous people that you've

worked with. If you haven't been in a feedback rich environment or a job, reach out to some of your favorite coworkers, the people who you know, trust and love, because we always receive feedback the best from people we know, trust and love. Reach out to those people and say, you know, when we were working together, what did you see as something that you thought I did that was really unique and special and valuable that I did well, maybe even better than others, and get their feedback on that. And so what this does is it starts to give you those trends and themes about where are the areas that you really can have the most impact because you're going to bring to the table your unique skill set, your sort of your unique value proposition of what you can do along with what you want to do.

And when those two things combine and that's when we like the sweet spot of career fit kind of happens when those two things combine. And then it allows you then to move forward and say, okay, I've got all of this. Now we're industries where my passions, my motivations, and my skills are going to be able to really serve clients, a company. It could be a community. It could be in any kind of initiative where it's going to serve it really, really well. It's interesting as you were talking, I mean, such great advice across the board. And I also think it has the added benefit of maybe giving you more confidence and stronger ability to communicate when you start interviewing. If you're coming from a place of what you do really well, you can take the words that you've heard from others via feedback or the assessments that you take or your lists. So when somebody asks you about your strengths, I feel like it's

inevitable when you interview that people are going to ask you some version of what are your strengths and your weaknesses or opportunities, right? So, you know, this can prepare you and have you be more well thought out in your communication in those moments, right? Absolutely. What you said is a tip I give to people all the time. If you have a really hard time bragging about yourself, let feedback from other people and assessments do it for you. Literally go through those and go through your notes and highlight what people said and just spit that back out. Um, meant that's a good, it's a good mental trick for people that have hard time talking about their strengths or bragging about themselves. P.S. Women have a harder time with this than men do typically. So what it does is it's, it's not you bragging about yourself

anymore. It's just restating what other people have said or what an assessment has told you about yourself. Yeah. And you can even say that, you know, cause I know I, I have worked on this a lot and I've gotten better, but I still do struggle a little bit saying, you know, good things about myself and not feeling like I'm, you know, bragging or something like that. So even in the moment saying, well, the feedback I got from my peers or the feedback I got from my leaders or in the work that I've done to understand my strengths and myself better, here's what I've uncovered, right? And so you can say all the awesome things. And I think it even carries more weight with the person you're talking to if it's not like

this is just what I think. This is what I'm hearing over and over again. Exactly. Exactly. It also shows without the question even being asked, it's also telling them feedback is important to me. I'm self-aware. I understand myself and I've collected information from all these different places to know that, to be able to present the best version of myself. And I think that employers really value that kind of employee, someone that is doing that kind of, taking that kind of initiative and doing that kind of work on their own and not someone that they have to lead down that path to be doing that.

Yeah. I mean, it's been a while since I was interviewing, but I just think, you know, back in my role five years ago, if somebody would have positioned themselves in that way, I would have been blown away. I can't tell you how many times I asked those types of questions and people didn't seem to have an answer or would be like, oh, that's a really great question. And I felt like going, I know. And one you should have totally been prepared for because who doesn't ask it, right? Right. And the other thing it does is it helps you avoid those like standard rehearsed responses that they tell you to give. Recruiters do see through that. Like if you say, well, you know, what's your greatest weakness? Well, I'm a perfectionist. Like, okay, we've all,

recruiters have all heard that. So you have to work too hard. Yeah. I just work too hard. Exactly. You know, so it's like, it's giving real honest feedback and that's what, that's what employers are really looking for. So I think that's a big, that's a big one in those situations. I'm so glad you said that. Cause I used to say, you know, the two things that were the hardest to measure in an interview process was somebody's work ethic. Because like nobody's ever said to me, you know, I'm kind of lazy. It would have been refreshingly honest, but everybody always talks about how hardworking they are. And you just, it's really hard to assess that. And then the other thing is somebody's courage. Yeah. Uh, you know, courage to lead courage, to take on unknown projects or develop new skills or whatever it

might be. Um, I always felt like those are the two hardest things to assess. And, and to your point, they fell into the category of things that people just say. You know, I have really strong attention to detail and I, you know, I work really hard and it's like, OK, well. I hear that from everybody, so, you know, separate yourself, please. Yeah, I it is interesting how little time people spend really customizing how they're going to respond to questions about themselves. So I think those tips are a great jump off point for people that are needing a place

to do that. Yeah. So for those people who are in the need or the worry phases, can you tell us, based on your experience and observation, are there any industries that are growing, hiring, looking for talent? You know, I know this is a scary time for a lot of people, but I have to believe that some companies are thriving. Certainly toilet paper companies, right? So, you know, share with us if there's any kind of insider tips. Yeah. So the first thing that I'll say that's like the job searcher hack right now is on LinkedIn, if you're not following the tag

now hiring, that's one that you need to follow if you're looking for a job. And if you want to follow hiring trends, really good savvy people in the talent acquisition industry know to put that tag on the content they're pushing out and jobs who are hiring companies who are hiring are adding that to the end of their post a new hashtag that's popped up is also coronavirus hiring so you can look for that you can look for that one too so that you can specifically see it. So right now, and this is true for savvy career searchers at any point in time, this is generally true. If you look for what people are, the market is saying there's high demand for, generally those positions are hiring for. Of course, we're hearing a lot about need for more people in medical professional fields. So those are even non-specific,

like certification specific. So like not necessarily just MDs and nurses, but also like the city of, I just saw a recruiter post a post for somewhere in New York. They're looking for like 7,000 people to do COVID testing. So some of the stuff that's demand and need is going to come with a lot higher risk right now. So that's obviously things that you would need to weigh out for yourself. That's besides those medical workers, that's also things like people working in delivery services as well. It's not, and I would also say those delivery services, there's kind of two levels of it, right? So as an example, Amazon said, we're going to be hiring 100,000 people to increase our delivery services. That's also going to come with sort of the next layer up of management of the logistics of how that's all

getting actually delivered, not just the people putting the boxes on porches, right? And it's also going to come with other layers of management from like a personnel standpoint, because they, their system, you can't hire that many people and not like gross up the system. Right. So, so I would be looking at what's high need and then look all the way up the channel in the business, because if they're making that massive of hires, they're probably expanding resource in some other way, whether it is through actual employees that they're going to keep or hiring consultants or contractors to kind of help with some of the work temporarily. Another one that's really obvious right now is online learning and technology services. So, you know, all of my friends that are teachers have been reaching out to me because I've operated a lot of my business off of Zoom

for the last five years. I'm a big advocate of Zoom. And I saw that Zoom is hiring. Oh, shoot, I lost the number. But they're hiring a ton of people right now, too, to be working with them. And then there's other online learning services as well. Because even though teachers are doing online learning, it's obviously limited engagement, right? They're pushing work out. So other online learning companies are also ramping up their content and offerings. So if there are any teachers listening, that would be a thing that you could also, if you, if for some reason you lost your job or you're looking for a teaching job, that represents a pretty big opportunity right now to look at some of those online learning platforms to get more engaged in that way.

And then any of the technology app-based companies that are providing service. So Instacart, Shipt, Grubhub. Nicole, are there any that you use that I'm missing right now for ordering or delivery? Like Uber Eats. Yeah, you got it. Maybe too much i know it's like a separate line item on the budget just pretty much um so like all of those web-based services right they need people again looking up the chain up the channel right so they're going to need more people for the actual delivery services but like making sure the technology is working, the hiring for those positions, HR, all of that. So, so those are the places that I'd be looking the most right now. I am going to say this too, and this, this

goes along with making the decision out of, out of, don't make a decision unless you have to. A very important question for people who are making the decision out of need or out of worry right now, you need to be very explicit in asking, is this a temporary or permanent job? And a follow-up question should be, if they say it's permanent, the follow-up question should be, what is the growth strategy? Taking advantage of the market as it is, the market need and demand as it is right now? What's the growth strategy beyond that to sustain the client or customer base? Because that is going to be what sustains your job. So listen to the answers to those questions when you're making your decision about if you would want to be, you know, working with that company or not. Awesome. I'm going to throw out,

and I know this isn't necessarily true for all companies, but financial services. I know you work a lot in the financial services space. And my husband is a managing director at a financial services company. And I know they are most definitely hiring because people are worried about their finances right now. And people want to talk to somebody about their 401ks or whatever the case may be. And it's just, it sort of seems recession proof or I don't know, any thoughts

there? Yeah. My clients right now in the financial planning field, they are excited to hire people that care about other people because that's what they're doing for their clients right now. They are making sure that the plans that they put in place for people are helping them, one, address urgent needs that they've got right now because of whatever's changing in their life, but also allow them to stay on track long-term because we know this isn't forever, right? So that's a great industry to be looking at. If you're looking for a career pivot, that would be one that allows you to have really meaningful impact on helping people transition through sort of a chaotic moment in history like this. And if you look for really good companies that have been around a really long time, they've weathered recessions for a very long time. So I would be looking at

how have those companies performed in previous financial crises and looking for opportunities at those companies in particular. Well said. I just, that popped into my head, if you maybe briefly or quickly could put a note on this. What about internships? You know, a lot of colleges are kind of shutting down their campuses and doing only virtual learning. And I'm sure a lot of college kids are really bored. I know I would have been. Yeah. Is this a good time to be seeking out internships? Absolutely. It's an important time to be seeking out internships. I think with the closing of a lot of campuses, we lost about half of our on-campus recruiting season, which means some of the more traditional ways college students would have gotten internships, job fairs, on-campus interviews, things that are like typically layups for college kids, they disappeared, right? Because campus is closed and you had to go home or

whatever. So that piece about networking is really important for college students as well. So if you're a current college student and you're looking for an internship, keep doing it. The best question that you can ask is ask people that are in your your the people that you already know, right, that are out in the workforce. What do you love about your job? What do you love about what you're doing? And if it sounds like something you would also love, tell them, hey, I'm looking for an internship. Do you know the person who typically hires or interviews interns for your company? And would you be willing to introduce me to them? And just set up informational interviews because that's really a great way to be getting connected in, in the absence of those more traditional recruiting channels.

And the truth is 85% of jobs are still hired off of a referral basis. So really for college interns, it's kind of forcing you into the most important way to find an internship or if you're a senior to find a job because it's, you're much more likely to rise at the top of the stack as a candidate if you've been referred or connected in. So good. Okay. So let's end on a little bit of fun. What are some just kind of do's and don'ts of interviewing?

Keeping in mind that maybe some of us are going to be doing more virtual interviewing in the near future. Yeah. So, okay. Let's start with the virtual interviewing thing first because it applies even if you're not interviewing for jobs, to be real honest. I've seen so many pictures of like the, you know, the Brady Bunch view of conference calls. And it's like, you're still, people are still looking up your nose or at the bottom of, I feel like I'm FaceTiming with my parents, right? Like, no dad, hold the, no dad, hold the screen up, hold it up higher, hold it, you know, come on. So tip number one, angles and lighting. I learned this, I live in Nashville. I learned this from a celebrity who I asked, I'd never asked them to take selfies with me. And I asked to take a selfie. Actually, I didn't. He asked to take a

selfie with me. Thank you very much. And so we very important point of clarification. Yes. And he was like, okay, we're going to face this light and hold the camera up. And I was like, this is so embarrassing. Like, just take the picture. And I looked amazing. And I was like, this is so embarrassing. Like just take the picture. And I looked amazing. And I was like, oh, that's why angles and lighting are important. It's true for virtual interviews. And you know, love your coworkers enough that if you're on conference calls, it's important enough for them to so elevate the screen so that it's pointing directly or even a little bit down at you. If you can't sit right, I recommend sitting right next to a window like so you're not looking you could either be looking out the window or it's right next to you and shining a light on your face so that people can really get the full view of your picture. For job seekers,

it's important to make a great first impression. And the more they can see of you, the more of a great impression that you can make, right? Because you look really prepared. So that's important. And then for coworkers and all of us, the more non-verbals people can see, the more we feel connected to people. We respond as much to non-verbals, more to non-verbals than we do to verbals, right? So light that face up so that people can still feel connected to you when we're, when we're far apart from each other. That's the first one. So important. Yeah. It's just crazy. Some of the things that I've seen, my husband actually commented on an interview that he had done virtually recently. It looked like the guy was laying like sinking down, laying down in his chair with the camera like, what is going on?

What do you think you're interviewing for right now? Yeah. Another one virtually that I would say is like test out the platform. If you work for a company that's interviewing people, check if you can send a test link along with it. That's really helpful for candidates to see that they get a test link to try it out. But if you're interviewing, test the link beforehand so that you know how it works and really understand that platform. And then I would say practice on a simulated version of the platform if you can. So if you're going to do a video conference, just take your phone camera and practice some interview questions and record yourself. Be careful not to be too critical of it. You just want to see like, is there anything obvious that I shouldn't be doing? Like, am I

touching my hair a lot? Or that's one of my bad habits. I play with my hair a lot. So am I doing that a lot? Am I doing anything that would be distracting? And if you're going to be on the phone, you can use voice notes so that you can hear the tone of your voice. If you're speaking loudly and clearly enough, things of that nature. So you can kind of simulate and practice before you have the actual interview to be really fully ready. The one other thought that I had as you were talking is just making sure that whatever's in your background or the frame of your, you know, virtual meeting is, sends the right message. I remember once doing an interview and there was some paraphernalia in the background that

I don't think the person had thought about. So, you know, just be mindful of that. Okay. If you want to learn a little bit more about Sarah and the work that she's doing, LinkedIn is probably the best way to follow her professionally. Or as I said at the beginning, she's so funny on social media. So Sarah Henning is her name on social media. And finally, you can check out her website at shiftive, S-H-I-F-T-I-V-E.com. Finding work you love, work that gives you plenty of light bulb moments and lights you up from within so you can set fire to your career, your community, and our world is definitely woman's work. I hope you're all staying safe. I hope you're all feeling healthy. And I hope you use this

opportunity to chase your passion and think about where you can get those light bulb moments in your career. Be well and until next time.