This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 046 / A Career Doing What You Love Is STILL Work with Stacey Gardin

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

You’ve probably heard the saying “Do what you love and you’ll never have to work a day in your life.” Well, I call bullshit. You can have a passion, you do have purpose, and sometimes you find or create a job where they intersect...and that can be awesome! But it’s still work. In this episode, I welcome Stacey Gardin - Author, Model, Photographer and Business Owner. Listen in to hear us chat about the downsides of making a job out of your passion, and the upsides if your job and passion don’t collide. Ultimately, your work matters because YOU matter. This is Woman’s Work. To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Coming up on this episode of This Is Woman's Work. You have to be willing to look at what's happening around you and grow, grow with it. Because if you're not going forward with things, you're going behind. And when you go behind in business, your doors are closing. I'm sure you've all heard the saying, do what you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life. Sounds utopic, right? Well, I'm Nicole Khalil and I'm calling bullshit on that. It sounds to me like something boomers told their kids is another way to completely mess with their heads. And now there's a whole host of young adults running around thinking this exists and feeling like there's something wrong with their job, their life, with them because they can't find it. So let's set the record straight. You do have a passion. You do have a purpose.

You probably do have a job or a career. And sometimes you find or create a job where they intersect. And that's awesome. But you still work. And unless you're independently wealthy and can hire someone to do every single thing that you don't love, you're probably going to have to work every damn day. I put myself in this category, by the way, and I can assure you that while I'm doing what I love, it's still hard. I still hate it at times. And in full transparency, making a job out of my passion sometimes makes me less passionate about it. On the flip side, some people choose to do a job they like well enough because it pays the bills and they reserve, or maybe better said, they protect their passion to do it in their free time. And that is A-OK. And there's probably

whole different ways to do this and middle ground, but I've invited Stacey Gardine, author, model, photographer, and business owner to dig a little deeper with me into this concept. Stacey, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, my pleasure. I'm excited. So Stacey and I had a prep call and this was not at all our topic, or at least the topic I thought we were going to be talking about in our podcast. And in our conversation, she kept saying things where I was like, oh my gosh, yes. And so this topic was born. It stemmed from that conversation. So Stacey, I want to start by asking the question, is your business your passion?

I am passionate about what I do. I love photographing people, but there are aspects of what I do that I am not passionate about that pay the bills. So it's kind of like a tricky question and a tricky answer, but I think you can find passion in your job, no matter what you do. Even if you're working in a mailroom, if you love organization, you could find your passion there, but you might not like that you're organizing other people's mail. So you can find passion in anything, but you have to just remember that it's a job. It's not easy. Yeah.

As you're saying that, the word responsibility popped in my head and mainly from a place of we're responsible for our happiness right we're responsible for our joy we're responsible for our passion and so I love that you said that no matter what it is that we do we have the opportunity possibly the responsibility to find some passion in it, right? Yes, most definitely. I know there are elements of photography that you are passionate about. Start there. What, as it relates to being a photographer, are, where does it meet your passion? So for me, and I think it kind of intersects with being a model too. I had no intention to set out to be a model. It was just me trying to find other ways to

supplement my income. But in doing that, I started to understand how people felt on the other side of the camera, how intimidating it can be when you don't know if what you're doing actually looks good or if you look like a fool. And some photographers don't tell you, and then you see it and you're like, oh my God, I hate this. Why did they let me do this? That was something I was passionate about seeing the beauty. I see beauty in everyone. So I found that I was passionate about seeing that beauty and showing that beauty, I see beauty in everyone. So I found that I was passionate about seeing that beauty and showing that beauty because I noticed that even some people didn't see beauty in themselves. So when I'm able to show someone that beauty, I light up. That's something that just gets me every single time. And I think that's why I'm most passionate about women's portraits.

And while I also do headshots, you know, traditional headshots, I still try to find little ways to have, you know, a woman throw a little shoulder towards me, I call it the flirty shoulder, just to, you know, get them to shake it up just a little bit to see that, oh, I am beautiful, I can, I can look great in photos, and you don't have to look like, you know, your 1985, you know, picture in the yearbook. So, yeah. Oh my gosh. As you were saying that, I was thinking about what a difference it is when your photographer makes you feel safe and comfortable. And as you were talking, I had that, like, I've never thought of being a photographer. I'm obviously not going to go out and do that, but I had the, oh my gosh, I could get really

passionate about helping women connect to those moments of confidence and capturing it. Like what a cool deal, right? Yeah. It's, it's an empowering moment and I feel like everyone should experience it. I think that there's just a lot of misconceptions about people who get their photos done. They're like, oh, those people are just glamorous. Those people are models. And sometimes people will look at my website and think that, oh, she shoots models. And I'm like, no,

I shoot the woman that's, you know, sitting in front of a boardroom. I shoot the woman that's making the coffee for the people in the boardroom. So I feel like you have your everyday woman, you have your executive, you have everyone that has that same feeling. You'd be surprised that everyone feels the same way. And I'm always shocked to find out that people feel about photographers the way they feel about going to the dentist. Like some people feel worse, like they'll go to a dentist and have teeth drilled out before they get their picture taken. Yeah. I, I, I wouldn't go that extreme, but I do fall in the category of not loving getting my picture taken. And we've talked about this a little bit, but there is sort of that myth that you need to be photogenic or that

there are people who are quote unquote good at this. Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah. So to me, there's no such thing. If you see people who are good at it, they've just done it more. It's just like, if someone's a race car driver, they've practiced, they go around that track over and over and over again. And just when you go out that first time and you, you spin out and you're like, Oh my God, I suck at this. This is terrible. Did you see that guy over there? He just did five laps with, and I think he did it with his pinky finger. Like, yeah, everybody always makes it look easy. Right. Yeah. But he probably spun out a couple of times too. So I always tell people don't compare it to the next person. It's just, you're either comfortable or you're not. And I always take it upon myself to make people comfortable.

I don't put a time limit on my photo shoots per se. I like to take the time to let that person, you know, get comfortable with me. I do consultations beforehand to talk to people. I do Zooms. I'm like, I want to see how they're acting, even just on the phone call or on the Zoom call, just to see how their body moves, how their face moves, how they laugh, because a lot of times they won't smile. And I'm like, do you not like smiling with your teeth? Do we have? So it's like getting to know them allows them to open up. So the more comfortable you are, the better your picture is going to be.

And to me, that's the photographer's job. Being a photographer and a business owner, and I find this in communicating with a lot of different women or people in different industries, there are often this sort of dual element, right? You have the thing that you do, but then you also have the business that you run. So like a doctor or a dentist, to your example, first and foremost, they're a dentist, but they're also a business owner. And sometimes people have a passion for one, but not the other. Where, where does that fall for you? The business owner part of it. So when it comes to the business side of it,

things that I realized I did not like was the customer service. Like, oh, I need to reschedule again. Oh, can I get on a payment plan? Can I do this? And while all of those things are okay, I noticed that I was missing opportunities to get more people in front of my camera to pay my bills. So it's like this balancing act of, you know, maintaining the business, the structure, the communication, doing ads, doing, you know, networking events to try to get more people in, and then also being creative and making sure that you're producing the things that you just promoted so hard. So it's like having, when you're starting out and you're a solopreneur, it's really hard to wear all of those hats at the same time. So

when you started maybe with a passion, that passion starts to dwindle out because you're doing so much of the work. And so until you're able to get in front of it and you're able to delegate things, that is one of those things that makes you realize that, oh, this is work. This isn't just passion anymore. So you have to either outsource that as soon as you can, or you have to say, is this a business or is this a hobby? And you have to be honest with yourself. That's such a good question. Somebody asked me sort of similar, like if this is your passion, would you do it for free? So let me ask you that question, Stacey. If, if, um, photography is something you're passionate about, would you do it for free?

No, me neither, by the way. I say like when it's family and friends, like there are moments where of course, like my brother and my sister, they have kids and my mom and my dad, of course, I'll do that for free. But once it goes beyond that, it has to be that it's giving me something because this is a business. And I always tell, you know, people that I'm teaching photography to, like when they say they want to take it to that next level from a hobby to a business, that you are not running a charity. If you want to run a charity, do that, but set that expectation that this is a business. I have bills to pay. I'm taking this seriously. I have my insurance. I have, you know, all the things that make me a

legitimate business cost money. So you have to charge for it and you have to charge adequately if you're going to have a profit. And that's a whole nother conversation regarding profit. Yeah. Stacey, I'm so glad you brought this up because I talked to newer business owners and, or, you know, in my old career, people interviewing for jobs and ask questions around what motivates them. And more often than not, what people would talk about impact or passion. And I love that, but I kind of always was like, okay, but what else? Because if all we ever cared about was making an impact, we'd all go join the Peace Corps or like you said, do this for free. It's that dual, how do you do something you love? How do you do something that makes a difference? And how do you get paid appropriately and create the lifestyle you want and not feel guilt or so maybe share a little bit about how

you do that in your business. How do you not feel guilty charging people or coming up with what your value is or what the work is worth? Yeah. So that's something that took me a long time and I've had, you know, different business mentors along the way, and I've been challenged about how much I charge for this and that. And, oh, well, why don't you just do it this way? And why don't you do that? And they like to compare, you know, photography to like, say where I wrote my book, they like to compare a volume based model to something that isn't volume based, and they're not the same. So I had to find that medium, like that, that space in between where I could figure out what it was going to cost for me to

make a living on this, how many shoots do I need per year? What do I have to charge per shoot to be able to get that? What are my cost of goods? What, what am I paying in taxes? Like I literally made spreadsheets to plug in numbers to see what it would take for me to get what I considered a comfortable living and what it would take, like how many shoots do I need to get to that? And it is more than most people think, but it's still way less than I know I would need to have what other people consider a livable wage. And one of the things that helps me with that is I think about the people that I'm photographing and I'm like, they're making a salary. They might not be freelance workers, but they expect when they go to work that they're going to get paid, whether it's biweekly or

monthly, they're going to get their check. And if their boss came to them and leaned on their desk one day and just said, you know, we're having a rough month. Would you mind, you know, if we just cut your pay about 40%, you know, just give, give us a 40% discount on your work this month. We want the same product. We want you to do the same thing, but we need you to cut that down because we're, we're trying to get our bottom line looking a little bit better. You would say, no, you would go look for another job. And so what I had to tell myself is I deserve the same respect that people that expect salary wages that they expect to get. I deserve the same thing because this is how I make my living. So it's no different. I think every business owner, myself included, listening to this is like emphatically nodding their head. I mean, my head is like bobblehead right now because yes,

yes, and yes to so many of those things. I read this on social media recently, kind of a pet peeve when people ask for services or posts on social media and they ask, you know, for somebody reasonable. Yes. And it's like, okay, first of all, what's reasonable? Like there is a range or a metric that everybody knows about, which obviously doesn't exist. Yes. Just say what your budget is. Exactly. I'm so passionate

about that too. And even just last night, there was a post in one of my local Facebook groups asking for a reasonable photographer. And I'm always like, should I even respond? Because I know people say I'm not reasonable, but I find myself and what I bring to the table, very reasonable. So I went ahead and threw my name in the hat as well. But it's like when people say, Oh, someone that's not going to charge an arm and a leg. And I loved that somebody made a graphic that showed like from like the surgical process, what an arm and a leg costs. And they were like, no, I'm actually quite affordable because this surgery for an arm and a leg replacement, that's, I mean, that's pretty astronomical. So you're getting a good deal because I don't charge for an arm and a leg.

Oh my gosh. I love that. Yeah. It's just, I mean, first of all, you know, you get what you pay for, right. And there are a variety of ranges and thank goodness for that. Like I always think there's an abundance amount, abundant amount of work to be done. And I'm grateful that some people can and will do it at this lower end. And then there are people who do it way high end. And by the way, they wouldn't get away with doing it if some people weren't willing to pay it and didn't find value and didn't feel like it was in their mind, a reasonable amount to pay for that. It's yeah, we could go on for days about this, but thank you so much for bringing that up. Okay. So if you wouldn't do this for free, is there anything you are passionate about that you would do for free?

Like I would read all day for free if, you know, if I if I could afford to do that. Me, it's baking cookies and cakes. I absolutely adore it. And I can't eat it all because I'm not trying to be in the grave early for having too much sugar. So I really enjoy making cakes. So anytime a friend or somebody has a birthday, my number one thing that people always ask is, can I get some of your lemon cake? And I'm like, yes, yes, you can. And every time I give it to them, they're like, oh, you should charge for this.

And I'm always like, no, this is my escape. This is my zen. I like to play just some Neo Soul while I'm in the kitchen and just have at it and wear my little pretty apron with pearls. And I just feel like I'm just in just another world and nothing matters. And I'm tasting my icing and everything else. And I'm just like, yes, this is, this is amazing. This will be what I do when I retire. And I always say like, I want it to be a grandma, but then I was like, but I don't want to have kids. So I'm like, I'm going to be the best super aunt in the world, bringing all the goodies all the time.

So yeah, cakes and cookies, that's my passion. So let's just play that out for a second. What if you did charge for it? What would that look like? If I charged for it, and I've thought about this several times because they ask me all the time, that would mean me having to figure out the DHEC guidelines and me having to figure out, okay, can I do this at my home kitchen? Or do I have to rent out, you know, a commercial kitchen? What license do I have to have? What is my cost per goods going to be? What,

how do I charge up on this? So like, as a business owner, I can't look at anything when someone's like, oh, you should do this. I can't look at things the same anymore. It's just an exciting idea. I look at it as, let me get this spreadsheet going. Let me see what this is going to cost me. How much, how much do I have to charge to make a profit? Everything is what's it going to take to make a profit. And if I can't make a profit, it is not a business. So it's no point. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad I asked that question. Cause that is genius response. Like, and then the marketing and the deadlines and the people who want to return there or like it. Yeah. As you were saying, so when you described

baking, I felt your joy. And then when I asked that question, I felt like the joy just started seeping out of, yes. Thank you. So, uh, kind of a different subject, but you wrote a children's book. Was this work passion or both? It was a little bit of both. It literally was just an idea that came up in my head. I wrote it down in 10 minutes because I have dreams. I have very vivid dreams and a vivid imagination. And I just wrote it out. And one of my friends was like, oh, you should really like look into getting it published. And then that's when it became a business instantly. Like as soon as they said it, I was like, okay. I was like, but that's a volume product.

So I was like, okay, this could be residual income, which I need as a photographer. I can't shoot forever. There's logistical things that you have to think about. I'm getting older. You have to take into consideration things like arthritis when you're shooting all the time. The equipment is heavy. So I was like, what could I do that if I got hurt or something, money was still coming in. So that's where the book idea came in. And KDP,

which is Amazon's distribution, they make it so easy because that was another thing. I was like, I have enough on my plate with my full-time business to be trying to figure out how to distribute this. And do I need a warehouse? And I don't want a bunch of stuff on hand because I tried, you know, the multi-level marketing stuff before. And I wasn't a fan, nothing against anyone who does it, but I didn't want all that inventory in my house and I hated it. And so when I thought about the book, I was like, how can I do this without having a million books in my house? So KDP was the route that I took for that. And I just love how easy they make it. They do the printing, they do the

shipping, they fulfill the orders. If a customer has a problem, they handle it. I never, I just get to wash my hands from it. I wrote the book, I gave it to them and I get my commission. So I love that process because it's the, all the touch points that make business hard. So when you do it that way, it just, it's a great way to make that residual income without the added stress, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, again, so smart and well thought out. And again, that dual combination, yes, passion, but there is also a work element of it and knowing what you wanted from it and what you were willing to invest in not, I mean, again, such, such great examples. The book is called Mandy Tangled in a Web and it's available on Amazon. You told me on our call the the like, where the story stemmed from share that because I love it. Yeah. So it's a children's book, but it was about my dating life at the time. And basically how I

kept making excuses for guys all the time, like, Oh, well, I can do this. And like, sometimes women have this tendency to think they can change a man. And I'm always first to say, you cannot, they are what they are. If they choose to change, it's because they chose to, nothing you do will change them. And so I, you know, spun it into the book, spun, you know, web, but it basically, I just kept getting caught up in the fact that I was the common denominator and I kept lying to myself about what was possible in dating. And so when at the end of the book, she's finally honest with her mom, it ends up being about pets. And, you know, I feel like some women kind of treat dating like, oh, look at my new, my new. Oh my gosh. I love that. Now I have a visual of carrying them in a little carry case.

Just imagine all the animals, just being different dates that you've had in the past. They're all, they all have their, you know, descriptive features and things like that. So it just, it didn't work out. And when I was finally honest with myself in real life, I finally got married. And so even if that's not a goal, like even if you want to date forever, the fact is you have to be honest with yourself. And I just, I put it in a story format that was for children, but if adults want to read it and then realize what it was really about, it can teach you a lot about dating. It's one of my favorite things about um cartoon movies nowadays is it's like for children but adults too right I watch with my daughter and I'm like this movie inside out was way more for me

than it was for her as an example and so I love this concept with your book and and I can't imagine a lot of adult women are gonna go and buy it and read it for themselves. Again, I was nodding profusely as you were talking because I, I did try to change a few men in my day. It's what we do. Yeah. Okay. My, my last question is things evolve, you evolve, your passions evolve, environments evolve. Never been more true than in 2020, you know, through current. How do you, you know, sort of evolve with it, whether it be with your passions or your

business? Talk to us about how you evolve and pivot. Yeah. So evolving and pivoting, if 2020 taught us nothing else, it taught us to pivot. And of course I always think about, you know, friends every time I say pivot, but I learned that one aspect of your business could be gone instantly because of shutdowns. And so I, about 50% of my business, the smitten photography side used to be corporate events. So I went from shooting weddings to realizing I didn't like weddings, but I loved corporate events because it was planned. It was, you know, everyone, they had a plan like weddings, just,

you know, they sometimes have a a planner but it's still just very emotional and things just go wherever they go corporate events you have a keynote you have lunch everything's like to the point and so when 2020 hit I had every intention to double my number of events that year I was you know pitching myself to companies. And next thing I know, every event that I had on my calendar was canceled. So I had to look at my business model and figure out how to make my portrait side pick up more. So I was able to get, you know, more headshots and then just marketing more to individuals. Like I did more families than I used to. But I like families, but I'm, like I said before, very passionate about women's portraits. But I had to be more open. So I think one of the

things when you're a business owner is, again, you might not be so passionate about something, but you got bills to pay. So where I might not advertise that I do families, that was a pivot for me. I started, you know, reaching out to former clients like, Hey, when's the last time you had a family portrait updated? And so it might've been those corporate people that I used to shoot, but I ended up doing pictures of their families. So sending out, you know, give certificates and vouchers to try to, you know, entice people

like, Hey, I'll give you this if you spend this. So it's like, it's not hurting my pocket, but it's getting them, you know, in the door. So you have to do the things necessary to stay in business. And I always think about like Blockbuster and how they had the opportunity to own Redbox and they say, Oh, that'll never take off. And now they're gone. So you have to be willing to look at what's happening around you and grow, grow with it. Cause if you're not going forward with things, you're going behind. And when you go behind in business, your doors are closing. That's the only, only option. So you have to move with things. So, so yeah, got to pivot.

Got to pivot. Right. And, and sometimes passion doesn't get to be part of your pivot choices. Exactly. And it might come back later. And that's the thing that you always have to keep in mind that some of the things you're doing now are making way for you to be more passionate later. So if you're not passionate about doing, you know, the odds and ends to keep your business running, you doing that hard work might, you know, get you the revenue to hire somebody to do that for you. And then you can keep doing what you're passionate about. And it might lead you to a new or additional passion too. It's yeah, I absolutely well said. And it's funny that you mentioned Blockbuster because I have this thing where every once in a while I get in a fight with a company, you know, like bad customer service or something like that. And then I boycott them from that point forward.

Blockbuster was one of those. So when it went out of business, I feel like I contributed. Yes. Or at least I like to think that. I believe it. Stacey, thank you so much. I know you have a Mother's Day project coming up. So for those listeners that are in the upstate South Carolina area, Stacey, tell us a little bit about this Mother's Day project. Yeah. So I just noticed a lot of times that moms are always behind the camera.

They're never in the family photos. And one of the things that we do at Stacey Guardian Portraits is we give you makeovers. Like you come in, like you rolled out of bed, and then we do full hair and makeup. I have clothes in the studio, like gowns and different things to let you get dressed up. So what I want women to do this year, moms and super aunts like myself, maybe you're not a mom, to just come and get your portrait done so that you're able to leave a legacy too. So that when they look back, they are able to see you in pictures and just to celebrate yourself for once, because we work

really hard. Women work hard all the time and we need a chance to put our feet up and just relax. So I'm doing this project in honor of Mother's Day because everyone's a mother in some sense, whether you're, you know, a mother through birthing someone or you're a birther of ideas or a birther of businesses, we're all mothers in some sense. So I think that we need to be celebrated and I want to show that. So I'm calling on all women to just come do a consultation with me and just see how you can be seen in portraits and just leave that legacy. I agree. And I wish I were in South Carolina.

Um, but for those of you that are, uh, Stacy's website is StaceyGardin.com. So S-T-A-C-E-Y-G-A-R-D-I-N.com. You can also follow Stacey on Instagram at StaceyGardinPortraits. And again, her children's book, Mandy Tangled in a Web is available on Amazon. Stacey, thank you so much for joining me today. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. This has been great. Thank you. And thank you for having me. It's truly been an honor. My pleasure. All right. As you know, I'm more than a little obsessed about redefining woman's work, eliminating gender expectations and building confidence. And while I've turned those obsessions into a career, I can assure you it's still work. Hard work. Sometimes frustrating and exhausting, sometimes doubt-inducing, but also often soul-fulfilling, uber-rewarding, and impactful work. But it's still work.

If someone wants to pay me to travel to all the top hotels in the world where I can read, have people bring me food and drinks whilst getting massages, then I'll eat my words. But until then, I will keep going to work. I also want to say this. Don't ever stay at a job you hate. If it's soul-crushing, loathsome, or abusive in any way, leave. I know it's easier said than done, so I ask that you find support and resources to help you leave. Outside of that, it's okay if your job and your passion don't collide.

It's your choice, your decision. And I salute all of you who go to work every day, whether that be outside or inside of the home. Your work matters because you matter. And this is woman's work.