This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 050 / Giving & Getting Feedback

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

You’d be hard pressed to find a successful leader, influencer or business guru that would tell you that feedback isn’t important. How else would you know how to improve or grow? But we don’t get taught how to give or receive it, and I say this with love, but most of us are doing it badly on both ends. In this episode, I share what I’ve learned the hard way, about both giving and getting feedback. I’ve coached far too many people who have received feedback that was badly delivered, so I’ve seen the impact (and I may get a little feisty about it). It’s also a great opportunity for me to ask YOU for feedback! Will you please: Go on Apple Podcasts and leave a review and/or rating Let me know which episode of TIWW is your favorite so far… and if you’re willing to share it on social media and tag me I’ll do a happy dance (which oddly involves some strange gyrating for me, so you have that to look forward to) My feedback for YOU is that you matter… you are enough, just as you are. You are here for a reason, so show up every day and do whatever your authentic version of “woman’s work” is for you. Because you are the decider. And that is Woman’s Work. To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Did you know that not only can you build your confidence anytime you want with the self-paced This Is Confidence online course, but that you can also do it with me? Over 12 weeks, I'll guide you and a small group of women through all of the confidence derailers, the confidence builders. I'll share tips, strategies, and stories you won't hear anywhere else. Basically, I'll be like your confidence Sherpa. So no matter which option you choose, you'll get lifetime access to our confidence-building community. Check it out on NicoleClill.com and get yourself registered. self-registered. You'd be hard-pressed to find a successful leader, influencer,

or business guru that would tell you that feedback isn't important. How else would you know how to improve or grow? How else would you know if what you're saying or doing is hitting the mark, resonating, or even working? Feedback has been called the breakfast of champions or a gift and the key to improvement. But we don't get taught how to give or receive it. And I say this with love, but most of us are doing it badly on both ends. I am Nicole Khalil, and on this episode of This Is Woman's Work, I'm going to share what I've learned the hard way, because I don't know if you noticed, but apparently that's how I learn everything best about both giving and getting feedback. For the record, I don't consider feedback to be a gender issue. I see

it as a life issue or at the very least a leadership one. So it's an area most of us would benefit from getting better at. And a fair warning here, I might get a little feisty on this episode on this topic because I've coached far too many people who were getting feedback that was badly delivered. And so I've seen the impact. And I've also experienced people taking feedback far too seriously. And so I have also experienced how we receive feedback in a not so productive way. So let's start with giving feedback. And I'm going to focus on what I believe are universal tips. So they apply at work, at home, and in all types of relationships.

The first learning is understanding the truth that we are all unreliable and inconsistent raters of other people, even though we all tend to believe that the way we see things is accurate. We believe we're right, but when it comes to how we see others, we're rarely factually or objectively correct. And if you want to dig into this a little deeper, the Harvard Business Review has an article called the Feedback Fallacy. It's very old. You'd, you know, have to look it up, but it's great. And it dives into some of these points at a greater level, but research supports this. We are all unreliable and inconsistent raiders of other people. Why? Because we bring our own beliefs, values, and experiences to every interaction and relationship.

We all have our own biases, which clouds how we see things, how we see people. Period. No exceptions. So when we notice something about someone someone or when something annoys or bothers us, or when we have a pet peeve, it's because of our perception based on our beliefs, values, and experiences. So let me give you an example. I have a bit of a pet peeve of people being late. Now I've been late at times in my life. So this is not like, uh, I have done this perfectly, but it really drives me batty when people are late. I make up that it, they think, or are sending the message that their time is more valuable than mine. I find it disrespectful.

I find it annoying. It makes me think that somebody isn't totally reliable or, you know, I don't know. I just have all sorts of stuff about when people are late. If somebody is 10 minutes late, as an example, to a meeting with me, I'm going to think right off the bat that they're being disrespectful or rude or unreliable, or that they think their time is more valuable than mine. That is going to be my automatic reaction. When the reality is there's only one piece of information that's factual. And that is that somebody was 10 minutes late. That is the fact. Everything else I brought to that situation was my perception of the event. There could have been a completely legitimate reason. It could have been something

totally out of their control. It could have been the first time they've ever been late. It could be that they come from a lax environment or a lax culture. Maybe they thought the meeting was more tentative or loose than I thought it was. So the reality is that how I perceive people, how you perceive people or an event gives us, gives everybody more insight into the person perceiving the event than it does the event. So it gives more insight into you than anyone or anything else. So when you're giving feedback, it's important to remember that whatever you say tells us at least as much about you as it does about the

person you're giving feedback to. So my tip here is to own your feedback. Be responsible in your communication. Only state the facts as facts. You are 10 minutes late. And own and be responsible for everything else that comes out of your mouth. So let me give you some examples. What I make up about that or the story I'm telling myself, Brene Brown gives us a lot of great language there. Or my experience of what just happened, Lisa Kalman, my coach, uses that language and has given me that gift.

Things like I feel disrespected or it bothers me because I perceive it as or what it means to me or my bias is or I'm struggling to understand. These are all examples of ways that you can own your feedback because it's what I am perceiving or what I am experiencing or what I am making up about this event. I'm owning the feedback. I'm not putting it on the other person. And frankly, it makes it a little bit harder to argue with because if I said you are unreliable or irresponsible, that's something that would put somebody on the defensive and they might try to argue or prove that they're not. If I say I experienced that as unreliable, like how do you argue with that? That's my experience. So the bottom line is don't present your opinion or your experience as fact. Only present the facts as fact. My second big tip that I've learned about giving feedback is timing is half the battle. Are you in a good place to give the feedback? If you're in reactive

mode or you're uber pissed off or you've got a lot of feelings, it might make sense to give it some time before you give the feedback. Are they in a good position to receive it? Are they frazzled or frustrated or on the defensive? Paying attention to the timing of the delivery when you're giving feedback is pretty important. More often than not, it's in everybody's best interest to wait until the emotional charge around it has gone down a little bit. But you don't want to wait too long that it's no longer relevant. Maybe even schedule it so you don't, and I put in air quotes, forget. I think sometimes we wait and then when the emotional charge has gone down a little bit,

we just go, oh, well, it's not worth it anymore. And it's always worth it to give feedback. Are they open to feedback? Are you the right person to give it? And a tip there is, do you care about the person, the culture, the situation, the opportunity? Giving feedback without relationship or without care can be perceived as harassment. The care element is so important in giving feedback. So if you don't care, then maybe find somebody in the organization or in the relationship or in the situation who does that might be better to deliver that feedback. And generally speaking, giving feedback in private is going to support you and the person receiving it much better than

giving it in public, especially if it's considered negative or constructive feedback. Okay, the next tip is there isn't just one way to do things. So the hint here is your way is not the way. Again, we have a tendency to believe that we're right most of the time, and we just need to understand that in giving feedback, that's not always the case. And I want to go on record and say, when people say this is the way it's always been done, that's ultimately what you say right before you've become irrelevant. So an example here is there are so many books and so many business gurus and so many people that have opinions on what it takes to become successful. And let's be honest, there is no universal one size fits

all model to success. But the reality is, is everybody who's spouting out this information believes their way is the best way. And clearly it worked for them. So it works. It's just how we position things as if this is the only way. So, you know, I've heard the, in order to be successful, you must wake up at 5am or earlier and have a morning routine. The insane focus on grind and activity and working hard as if that's the only way to achieve success. Now, it is a way, and it's definitely a proven way, but it's not the only way. Focusing on effectiveness and efficiency and different definitions of success and balance and all of that can come into play here. How about we normalize being great at work and working hard, but also taking care of ourselves, our mental and emotional health and taking breaks and honoring our bodies

and our emotions. Like that'd be pretty cool. Just because something worked for you doesn't mean you have a license to hold someone else to your expectations or to give feedback on where they fall short from doing it your way. I gave a more work-oriented example with success, but this applies at home and relationship to. Your way of being a spouse, your way of being a friend, your way of being a parent, and so forth and so on is not the only way. And so when you give feedback about how other people are doing those things, you're giving more insight into you than you are into the other person. You're giving insight in a lot of ways to your own arrogance, ego, insecurities. Let's use parenting as an example. How you choose to parent is your choice.

You do not have it figured out. I do not have it figured out. And I say that with love. None of us have this parenting thing figured out for all children. We are all doing the best that we can and nothing bothers me more than when somebody comments in a negative way about somebody's parenting choices. All that does is gives us insight into you and your insecurities as a parent or you and your judgment and arrogance and whatever, knock that shit off, ladies.

It is not working for you and it certainly doesn't help the person you're giving the feedback to. Unless they asked for it, I say keep your mouth shut and focused on what is important to you as a parent, what is important to you as a spouse, what is important to you as a friend. And don't put your stuff all over everybody else. Your way is not the only way. My way is not the right way. It's just the way I'm doing it. And ultimately seeing your way is the only way makes you arrogant, not right. And there was that feistiness I was talking about. All right.

On to my fourth tip on giving feedback. Numerous studies have been done that prove this, but the bottom line is feedback that focuses on strengths works way better than critical or negative feedback. You want someone to develop or grow. By the way, notice I didn't say change. People only do that if they want to, no matter how much feedback you give. And how do you know if somebody wants to change? Well, they'll let you know either by asking or telling you or via action. They will show up differently. So if you want somebody to develop or grow, recognize and reinforce the good. Be a champion and a cheerleader of their strengths, what works, highlight and notice the good. This is neuroscience people. So people far more intelligent than me figured this out, but it totally jives with my experience.

I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with women who are lacking confidence, feeling discouraged, disheartened, and me focusing on what is working, what I know to be true about them, connecting them back to their strengths and their superpowers pretty much works every single time. All right. Lastly, on giving feedback, don't make your feedback about the person as a whole. Make your feedback about the event the behavior or the situation so not you're an asshole that is about the person as a whole you behaved like a jerk in this situation okay you're not making it about the whole person you're making it about an event or a behavior. And generally speaking, name calling doesn't work, though, you know, sometimes it feels necessary, right? And for the love of God, we need to stop

having our feedback sort of always seem to venture towards somebody's appearance or life choices. You are not in a position, I am not in a position to give feedback about that unless somebody asks. Our sort of go-to thing where we, you know, if we want to really hurt somebody or destroy them or mess with them or whatever, we tend to go feedback around appearance or life choices. So why, I don't understand why you haven't gotten married yet, or, um, well, at least I'm not fat like that person or whatever. Like, again, these are horrible examples of feedback. And when we do them gives us way more insight into us than it does anything about the person that you might be

commenting on. Okay. Now let's talk a little bit about receiving feedback. I've got three learnings here that have been difference makers for me. So the first one is a reminder, just like what I talked about with giving feedback, on the receiving side, a reminder that feedback is someone's perspective of you. That's it. It is not fact. It is not truth. It is not universal. It is one person's experience or observation or perspective of you. So ask yourself a few questions. Does their perspective, does their experience of you ring true? Do you get this feedback a lot? Does it ring true with your internal knowing? Is this something you're aware of and maybe trying to work on? And if the answer is no, like it doesn't ring true, then set it aside and move on.

I'll give you an example. If somebody gave me the feedback that I was unreliable and they couldn't count on me, that is so incongruent with my life experience and the feedback that I've been given over and over again. And that doesn't mean that it might not be true for that person. That doesn't mean that I could have not messed up or done something that would have had them see me in that way. But it doesn't connect with my knowing and my experience up to this point. So I might take the feedback, ask myself, does this ring true? And in this case, say no. And then I go, okay, great.

I might want to pay attention to it, but for this point, I'm going to set it aside and move on. Another question to ask is, does the feedback matter? Like if somebody comments on my physical appearance, it's an automatic set aside, this doesn't matter. The only person whose opinion matters to me about my physical appearance outside of me is Jay. It's a boundary and a no exception rule for me. If somebody comments on my appearance, and by the way, this applies to me on the positive side. It's so often when we post something on social media or when I share a picture or whatever, and if you do this, I am saying this with love. I think we all do it because we have been sort of conditioned and we sort of don't know what else to say, but we have a tendency to go, you look beautiful

or you're stunning or you're whatever. Now, if somebody posts a picture that's clearly about what they are focused on with their physical appearance, like, hey, I want to show you how I've lost weight or, hey, I want to show you this outfit or this look makes me feel confident, then that's different. But if I post something and I am talking about my beliefs on business building or my learnings on confidence or whatever, right? And it has nothing to do with my physical appearance. There's such a tendency for people to comment on my looks in a positive way. But I will tell you, it means nothing to me. If somebody knows me and really wants to compliment me and really wants to say something that's meaningful to me, comment on my brain. Speak to my intelligence. Tell me I'm courageous. Comment

on my bravery. Notice how I show up confidently. Notice how I care. Notice I want to make a difference. Tell me something mattered to you. Tell me something helped you. Those are the things that speak to me. That's the feedback that matters. Whether it's positive or negative, for me, I've really worked to get to the point that those comments just don't matter. So does the feedback matter? If the answer is yes to you, then you're going to need to work through that feedback. If the answer is no, then set it aside and move on. Use my favorite four-letter word,

not the one that you're thinking. Next. Next is my favorite four-letter word. I don't resonate with you. You don't like what I have to say. You think I'm fat. You think I'm too loud. You think I'm too opinionated. Next. And then I move on. Again, I've shared this before. I have a quote. It's literally sitting in front of me right now.

You will be too much for some people. Those aren't your people. I can't tell you how many times a day, how many times a week I go, well, that's just not my person. And that's how I get myself to move forward. Next question, does the person giving the feedback matter? Is this a complete stranger? Is this, you know, a potential client? Is this your spouse? Is this your family member? Is it a close friend? Is it somebody who knows you? Is it somebody who doesn't? Does the person giving the feedback matter to you? Also check in the frequency of the feedback. If 10 people are giving you the same piece of feedback over and over again, it might be worth exploring. If one person's giving you the feedback and you've never heard

it before and you're probably not going to hear it again, next. Thanks very much for the feedback and move on. And then finally, what do I want to do with this feedback? Ask yourself that question. What do I want to do with this feedback? It puts you back in a position of ownership. You've received this feedback. Now, what do you want to do with it? You get to decide. You can grow from it. You can ask for clarification. Tell me what that means to you. Can you give me some examples? And you can let it go. Those are all choices of things that you can do with feedback once you've received it. All right. My next tip for getting feedback is for the love of all things holy, stop hearing only the negative. It's exhausting for you and everyone else. And it will honestly stop people from telling you anything if you only ever always focus on the negative. Ladies, I am so proud of our ability to demonstrate emotion,

to trust our intuition, to be sensitive to ours and others' feelings. But the over-sensitivity to negative feedback is doing more damage to us than I think sometimes we acknowledge. Stop focusing on only the negative. I'll give a personal example. I spoke at a leadership event. There was about 300-ish people in the room and the company sent me the survey after the fact that they had given to all of the participants, which I was grateful for. I love getting feedback. And so I went through it with a fine tooth comb.

There were 150 something, I think like 156 people that gave me an excellent rating, like the highest rating. There were three people who gave me a poor rating, the lowest rating. And I found myself for a solid 24 to 48 hours freaking out about the three people. I spent so much energy trying to think of what I did or what I said. I read through the comments and there was one that was like, we should never hear from Nicole Khalil again. And then there was another one that said, while interesting and spoken with passion, it was factually incorrect. And I went into a spin about all of this. And

then I finally was like, three people out of the 300 people didn't like what I had to say. Those aren't my people. I couldn't have said or done anything that would have pleased them. And I needed to move on. And I knew what I said was factually correct because I'd researched it and I'd highlighted all the information. And just because somebody didn't like it, didn't make it not true. And you know what?

That person who never wanted to hear from me again, great. Now I know, right. I'm never, and I spent a lot of energy, by the way, trying to figure out who might have said it, which is crazy because I was in a room with people I mostly didn't know, but the amount of energy we spend focusing on the negative is exhausting to us and to the people around us. And ultimately will prevent us from getting the real and valuable feedback we actually desire and need. Some things I say to myself, again, those aren't my people. If you get a review or feedback saying to yourself things like, I'm proud of this, this,

and this, forcing yourself to acknowledge, remind, celebrate the good news, the good pieces of feedback you got. And then I'm going to either grow, ask for clarification, get examples, or let go of whatever, and I put in air quotes, negative feedback you might've gotten. Saying to yourself, I'm not perfect. Nobody in the history of ever is perfect. It would be unreasonable for me to expect to get a perfect review. So thank goodness, a good reminder that while there are a lot of good things going on, I still have a few things I can work on. If I don't get some negative feedback, I believe I'm playing way too safe. I desire negative feedback.

I embrace it. Why? Because if nobody ever thinks anything negative, if nobody ever has a strong opinion about anything I do or anything I say, well, then I feel I'm playing way too safe. Anybody who's ever changed anything about the world or how we see it has had to face an abnormal amount of negative feedback. Now, I know we need to be better about this, as I mentioned earlier, but I just always remind myself that it comes with the territory. If you're up to something big, if you're doing

something that might actually change someone or something, of course, negative feedback, of course, haters and naysayers are going to come along with it. To a certain extent, it's like, welcome to the party. I'm glad you're here. That means I'm doing something worth doing and people are noticing. And my last tip is listen and give yourself time to process. When people give you feedback, when you're in this receiving end of feedback, we have a tendency to think about what we want to say or to like want to respond or answer to or give examples or defend or whatever. My best tip here is listen. Listen to the feedback. You can decide what you want to do with it after the fact, but really listen to the feedback. Listen to what they're saying. Listen to the spirit in which they're saying it and hear what's coming and then give yourself time to process because the emotional

charge, the energy, the reaction is going to be at its highest typically when you're getting it, or maybe even that hour or so after where you're ruminating and it's all going through your brain. But the same feedback on a bad day will affect you way more than the same feedback on a good day. So again, where you are when you're receiving the feedback is pretty important. Giving yourself time to get to a good place can be helpful. Listen and say thank you for sharing your experience, assuming it was delivered in a productive and kind way, because that's what it is.

It's their experience. Thank you for your perspective, because that's what it is, their perspective. And it prevents defensiveness. And that's really, truly one of the worst things we can do in receiving feedback is become defensive. And it's really truly one of the worst things we can do in receiving feedback is become defensive. And it's super hard to do that. Ask for time to respond if necessary. I'd love some time to process this. I'd love some time to think through it because I want to come back with

my most effective and well thought out response. Something like that can be really, really helpful. And of course, it is always appropriate to ask for them to clarify and to give examples. So when you say I'm unreliable, what do you mean by that? Can you give me some examples of where you've perceived that? Or when you say I'm too opinionated, what do you mean by that? Can you give me some examples of where you've perceived that? Or when you say I'm too opinionated, what do you mean by that? Can you give me some examples? And then I get to go back to my deciding whether or not this feedback matters, running through my questions and focusing on everything they say, not just the negative. And lastly, if necessary, if appropriate, don't be afraid to tell somebody to fuck off.

Sorry, just making sure you're listening and still paying attention. But seriously, stand up for yourself when appropriate, when needed. People who don't know you don't have the right to comment on your relationship status, life choices, parenting, sexuality, appearance, so forth, and so on. So if you need to tell somebody to go pound

sand, I say go for it. When feedback is done right, it is about care and growth. That's it. Anything else tells you more about them than it does about you. And there you have it. Those are my biggest learnings and a few rants on both getting and giving feedback. And before I sign off, I'm going to ask for yours. If you go to Apple Podcasts and write a review or hit the stars for feedback of the This Is Woman's Work podcast, or for me as a podcast host, I would appreciate and welcome it. And I'd love if you'd be willing to share the episode that has resonated with you the most. You can share it on social media and tag me, or if you prefer, you can email me or direct message me. My feedback for each of you is that you matter.

You are enough just as you are. And you're here for a reason. And all of that is true all of the time. So show up every day and do whatever your authentic version of woman's work is for you. Because you're the decider. And that is woman's work.