This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 055 / Thriving In A Male Dominated Industry with Rachel James

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

We’re continuing the conversation of thriving in traditionally male dominated industries... how to handle the challenges, how to use it to your advantage, how to stay true to yourself in the process, and what we can learn from our male counterparts. I’ve invited Rachel James as my guest, as she has had a TON of practice at being a woman in careers where people often expect men. From working as a mechanic, to bodybuilding and now in the finance industry, Rachel shares her experience and takeaways and how the power of doing this one thing, can get you exactly what you want. For those of you who are blazing new trails in industries that are historically overrun by men, hold onto those blow torches and keep applying the pressure. We need you, we see you, we support you and we celebrate you. In the amazing words of R.H. Sin “Some women fear the fire, some women simply become it.” This is Woman’s Work. You can connect with Rachel by visiting her website at racheljames.nm.com or on LinkedIn @ RachelJames To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Our good friend, Susan Trippi, who you probably remember from episode 47, where she both inspired us and educated us during our conversation about mindset, resilience, and going through a divorce. Well, Susan is hosting the Sacred Act of Self-Care Summit, and you're invited. summit was created to give women space to have real talk about real experiences, where they will be encouraged and find inspiration, a space for women to validate and celebrate their worth while connecting and creating community. And couldn't we all use some more of that right now? If you're tired of feeling tired, stressed, or overwhelmed, and are looking to find rest for your soul, this event is for you. Join Susan and many other purpose-driven women for this virtual event on Saturday, June 12th, from 12 o'clock to 4 o'clock Eastern time. To register, go to susantrippi.com forward slash self-care summit. And listeners of the This Is Woman's Work podcast can enter promo code SUMMITWW, so S-U-M-M-I-T-W-W, to get 10% off.

You deserve a little self-care. Thanks for joining us for another episode of This Is Woman's Work. I am Nicole Kalil, and I'm thrilled you've taken time out of what I imagine is a very busy schedule with a never ending to-do list. So I'd ask that you congratulate yourself for creating time for your own enjoyment, development, and encouragement. At least, I hope that's some of what you get when you tune in. If you're a consistent listener of our podcast, you'll know right away that we've covered the topic of thriving in a male-dominated industry before. We work really hard to bring all sorts of different topics we believe are relevant to women

and invite amazing thought leaders, experts, and women who are living their own advice. We also think some topics are worth repeating or coming at the same topic from a different perspective. So if you're thinking, she did this topic already, I first, thank you for your consistent support. And second, I applaud your attention to detail. I'd also ask that you quickly hit pause and rate and write a review on Apple Podcasts. Click on This Is Woman's Work and scroll all the way down until you see ratings and reviews and click where it says write a review, please and thank you. Okay, back to the topic at hand. I've asked Rachel James to join me to continue the discussion of thriving in a

traditionally male-dominated industry, how to handle the challenges, how to use it to your advantage, how to stay true to yourself in the process, and what we can learn from our male counterparts. I'd say that Rachel has plenty of experience in this area as she started her career as a wrench. No, I didn't say wench and I'm not name calling. I said wrench, which for those of you who know nothing about the aviation or auto industry means a mechanic. She started as a mechanic and worked her way up to a business consultant. She's also competed in bodybuilding competitions and now she works in the still male dominated industry of financial services as a financial

advisor. Let's just say she's had a ton of practice at being a woman in careers where people often expect to work with a man. Thank you so much, Rachel, for being here and to share your perspectives about thriving in male-dominated industries. Thank you so much, Nicole. I am so excited to be on your podcast. I've been following along and I've loved all the episodes so far. So I'm so honored that I get to be on the podcast myself. So excited to have a cool conversation with you today. Yeah, me, me too. And, and just to be upfront, Rachel and I know each other personally. She works in my husband's office. And so I've gotten to know her a little bit on a personal level. And you all are in for a really big treat.

Rachel, I want to start by asking the question, based on your experience and your perspective of working in so many male-dominated industries, what do we as women have the opportunity to learn from our male counterparts? I would say confidence, you know, and if I could scream it, I would scream it. Confidence is one thing that if I look back to my earliest, you know, exposure to being a female in a male-dominated field, confidence was sort of the thread that ran its way the whole way through. And I learned early on that sometimes working in a shop, you know, confidence has to be faked, you know, and I can, it brings me back to like this early experience for me. I was probably 19

or 20 and I was working at a Nissan dealership and a manager, you know, pulled me aside and I don't even know if what he said is PC or not, or, you know, he just was making an observation, but he like pointed me aside, pulled me aside. And he was like, you know, why is it that if I, you know, if I have a job and it's you and he points over to this other technician that like everyone joked was like a C tech, he was not the greatest. And he's like, if I have a job and I, you know, ask who wants it or who can do it, you sell yourself at like 30%.

And this guy over here who we all know, no offense to him, is a C-jack. He's going to bravado it and be like, oh yeah, I got this. I got this. And it was an interesting conversation because I remember thinking like, well, yeah, that guy isn't that great. And I don't know why I say that. I always, any time presented with that experience up to that point in my life, I would kind of undersell it. And then, you know, I really gave it a lot of thought and I started to watch

how, you know, my male counterpart, you know, the other mechanics on the floor would be like, oh yeah, I got this. Oh yeah, I got this. And what resulted was they would get better jobs. The manager would give them jobs that were, you know, the gravy work. And I would get stuck with these junk jobs because I was never really putting myself out there as capable of doing it. I was kind of underselling myself. So it changed for me. You know, part was just that conversation with the manager, but then it also, you know, it opened my eyes to kind of look at what was going on. And I realized like, why shouldn't I, you know, if everyone else on the floor is going to sell themselves that they can do this job, you know, above and beyond everyone else, like I'm going to do the same. So I started just acting a little different, you know, when there was a job that I wanted, I'd be like, oh yeah, I totally

got that. I'd just be more enthused and more proactive about it. And then I started to like reap the rewards of it. I started to actually get better jobs and then I was able to do them. And then it was like, oh wow, I can do this. Like awesome. And it, it changed, I think my approach to confidence and it may be borderlines cockiness at times, but I've really seen how the power of confidence can get you what you want, even if it's not really felt inside. But if you put it out there, you get it back. You are 1000% speaking my language.

Obviously, I'm super passionate about confidence and all the research supports everything that you just said. We as women, we have a tendency to overvalue competence and undervalue confidence. And our male counterparts are reaping the benefits of it being in reverse. Now, I think we have the opportunity to learn a little bit from each other. We don't really want the C-tech person having that much confidence if they have so little competence, right? But in the interim, this concept of choosing confidence, even when you're not feeling it, right? Kind of the make it till you make it, except my flip on it is more choose it

till you feel it, is when you choose confidence, it has the reward of actually bringing you confidence as you shared in your example, which I love. Thank you. Okay. So what do our male counterparts have the opportunity to learn from us? Yeah. And I think I can lean into the previous question and into this one kind of together. As far as the confidence piece is concerned, I think I, you know, started to kind of ask myself the question, like, what's the worst that could happen, right? Like, if I say that I can do this job and I can't, you know, that if I can't actually figure it out, you know, at that time, internet wasn't, I mean, the internet existed. I'm not that archaic, but, you know, it was a little bit of a day, but like, I didn't have the answer. I'm not that archaic, but you know, it was a little

bit of a day, but like, I didn't have the answer. I could look it up. I could learn something. Like, even if I was unsure, there are resources out there. And certainly now today in 2021, I mean, you, you can go on YouTube and pretty much learn anything. So I think, you know, part of it is just knowing that like, it will be okay if I don't know all the answers and the competency piece isn't fully there because I can just figure it, I can learn something new from this experience. But as far as an opportunity to learn from us, you know, I worked with sheet metal for a little while and I had a mentor that used to always joke, like women always were the best at sheet metal because of our attention to detail and our thoroughness and our competency and like our ability to look at things comprehensively and look at the details.

From my time with paint, women actually have more cones in their eyes and we can perceive more shades of color than men. So just from a scientific space, women have the ability to perceive color in more shades. So like, I think the opportunity to learn from us is that we approach things differently. Men, and this is so stereotypical, but men sometimes just take the job and maybe don't read the instructions, right? Like it's the super old stereotype, but I've noticed that women tend to do their research. They tend to, you know, look into things a little bit more. So the attention to detail sometimes is a little bit more in tune. Agreed. I don't know if it's the ability to multitask or maybe the ability to take

on and take in a lot of different information simultaneously. I think for a lot of us, that's, I don't know if it's innate or a learned skill, but I mean, Jay's awesome, but he can only handle a to-do list of a certain amount where I'm like, bring it on. I'm curious. I know we've joked about this before in the past, but has anyone ever underestimated you or had any clear assumptions about you professionally or personally, since you're a woman in those industries? Uh, every day, all the time. Um, you know, it's funny, like we had people working on our house maybe a month or two ago. And what was funny is, you know, there were several people of this crew that were in our house working on, you know, just a little project at our house. And each one of them came

up to my husband at a different time and said, oh, wow, what a cool motorcycle in the garage. And each time, you know, my husband would kind of smirk and be like, it's not mine. It's my wife's. So, and she built it. Yeah. So like it happens all too frequently. But there are certainly some assumptions, you know, and some have been wild. It was funny, like thinking about this question earlier, I have, um, um, you know, a story that I can share with you. And I think it was an interesting experience for me early on. And there was, there's so many, I don't really know where to pick from this, like filing cabinet full of examples, but, um, you know, I think of this one time I was a tech for a Nissan dealership and my bay

had this, uh, like fishbowl window so that customers could kind of see, you know, all of us work. So it was my bay and two other technicians that people in the waiting room could see. And you know, when you get that feeling of somewhat like you can feel someone looking at you, you know, so I'm like working on this three 50 Z it was a super basic, like service, like a 60,000 mile service it really wasn't anything high tech at all it was just like rotating tires and an oil change but I you know could feel eyes burning on me so I looked at the window and there was this guy standing in the fishbowl

red face like he was clearly angry and I'm like that guy's not happy. Yikes. And then I heard him scream through the glass. Like, why is there a girl working on my car? And he was furious. So like, thankfully my manager and the people that I worked with, we had a really strong relationship, but this guy wound up making a huge scene storm through to like the manager and was like, why is there a woman, you know, working on my, my car? Like, this is ridiculous. And he was so mad. And the manager basically said, you know, Rachel's qualified more than qualified than some of the technicians on the floor. Like go have a seat in the waiting room or we'll leave your car on the road or is out in the parking lot, like beat it buddy. So it was just an interesting moment for me to realize that all the other men on the floor would never experience something like that. But for me, it was one of, there are countless examples of that where just because I was a female, there was this perception of incapacity or inability to do the job, or in some cases, sheer anger or opposition or whatnot. So I would say I'm often underestimated and there's often

assumptions. And I, I kind of crack up about like, it's comical to me at this point, because when you show up and you actually do perform, it's kind of like, gotcha. Yeah. It's sort of like a, I'll show you, right? So you kind of already answered it, but I want to dig a little bit deeper. Like how do you handle, how do you recover from those? Some of them are probably easy at this point to laugh off. In some cases, maybe you've developed a little bit of a thicker skin around this, but in the situations or the times where it does affect you or it does bother you, how do you pick yourself up and dust yourself off and get back in action? That's a good question, Nicole. I think part of it is just, you know, earlier in my, my lifetime, those things did bother me.

Now they really just don't, but early on, I think it was just, it was my passion. And who was it, you know, for someone else who doesn't know me and doesn't know my path and my capabilities say that I can't do something. You know, I was raised by a family that totally pushed me to be a strong woman and, and do whatever it was that I wanted to do. So I think from a roots perspective, I knew I had the support. I knew I was capable and maybe leaning into the confidence question that I had like boosted my confidence enough that I kind of knew like, you know what, this guy doesn't know me and he doesn't know what I'm capable of,

or this person doesn't know me or what I'm capable of. So I think it's putting on the blinders to the negativity because negativity will always be there. It really, you know, if you're looking for it, you're definitely going to find it. So I think it's about kind of keeping that optimist vantage point and keeping laser focused on what it is that you want and kind of drowning out the other noise. Cause inevitably, no matter what you do, you're going to piss someone off and it may not have anything to do with being a woman or a man that, you know, if you're doing something right, it's probably pissing someone else off. So, you know, I think it's more just thinking through to your values, thinking through to like, what is your passion? What do you really want?

Me working on a car shouldn't hurt anyone, right? Like if done properly, Right. Like, so I think it's just going back to who you are. Yeah. Yeah. I find that same thing. It's, it's like, okay, I hear the noise or I see the reaction or whatever. And like, if I can connect back to what I know to be true about myself, like you said, your passion or trusting yourself or knowing that you can, it's easier to sort of set that aside and go, that's about them. It's not about me. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about financial services. I've obviously had some experience in the industry and it's very old established. And in my experience can be a little bit quote, quote, set in their ways, right? How are you shaking things up a bit?

How do you bring your passion, your unique talents to this career while also still remaining open to being coached or being led by people in the industry, which are mostly men? Like, how do you balance that? I'm me. I think, you know, and I'm, so I'm, I just turned 37. Uh, and I think at this point in my life, I know who I am and I own it. I'm not trying to fit in and be the suit that everyone else is. I'm very much my own person. You know, the things that I like to do on the weekends are definitely different than some of my peers. So I think part of it is just owning who I am and owning that I'm different, which I think has shaken things up a little bit. I'm certainly not what someone typically would

think of when they think of a financial advisor, you know, when I'm painting cars or working on cars on the weekend or doing funky things, like it's just not the traditional thing. Um, but I I'm so passionate about it. I love the blue collar roots that raised me and I'm proud of where I came from and I have a ton of passion around it. So I've really just kind of leaned into who I am, where I'm from, and that's sort of who I support and who I want to work with. So. Well, and I would just from observation, say you've even taken it a step further. You've used those differences as your advantage. You know, you do financial planning, but you do it for a lot of people in the trade industry. There's not a lot of people in many financial planning

organizations who could approach that with as much experience, relevance and care as you do. So I think, I think I'm just so passionate about it that it oozed its way into it. You know, like it, like I'm going to, you know, I volunteer at the vocational schools. I'm very, very passionate about giving back to young students and supporting the blue collar industry, whatever vocation it is. Right. Even if it's different from my personal background, I'm still a firm believer that essential workers are the plumbers, the electricians, the auto mechanics. I mean, these are the people that drive our lifestyle. It just sort of happened because I'm owning it,

right? Rather than trying to conform into what everyone else is, I guess the way I look at it is like, this is just who I am, who I hang out with. It's a hundred percent where my passion lies. So it just naturally, what I do fell in that way. And it's cool to keep learning and to keep being kind of this person still, I feel like I've got my foot in a new venture and a foot in an old venture, if that makes sense. Like I lost my roots. I'm very much attached to those while also, you know, a student of the world and always learning and, you know, developing my skill sets to give back to the blue collar community. I feel like you're giving such a good demonstration or lesson around confidence. That wasn't the intention or the topic, but it's coming out over and over again. You know, my definition of confidence being first and foremost, when you know who you

are, right. And you talked about that so much, plus the owning who you're not and embracing and to a certain extent, leveraging all of it. Well, I think it's easy when, when you do that, things are just easier. It's so much easier to be you and to own it. Like, you know, I'm weird. I'm certainly not the most normal. I get that. Like, and I'm probably not everybody's cup of tea and I'm okay with that. It's none of my business. I I'm me and that's it. So I think once you truly own it, everything else just comes so much easier because it's like, Oh yeah, I do like this. I do want to do that. Oh no, that doesn't

float my boat. I'm all set. And it really kind of gives you the barometer to make choices in life that fuel you if fill your cup, because it's miraculous how much you can do when you're constantly filling your cup rather than working on half empty. A hundred percent. Okay. So I would imagine you've been mentored predominantly by men. Is that a fair statement? Okay. So do you prefer to be mentored by men or by women, or is there something else you look for when you're looking for somebody to coach and develop you? Let's start there.

Yeah. What's interesting is I think, you know, a large majority of my life was with all men. Mentors were men, coworkers were men, friends were men. It was a very testosterone heavy upbringing for me. Also have all brothers, even, you know, all men in my personal family, husband and a son. So there's a lot of testosterone. So I will say though, that in my, you know, more recent years, I've met some really powerful women that has opened my eyes to how cool it is to be a woman and how bad-ass that is. And that came later for me in life.

So I love both, you know, professionally, I am used to being mentored by men. Most of my professional career has been mentored by men. And I think what I appreciate regardless of gender is my mentor being direct with me. I want criticism at the end of the day. I want to be a better person. I want to be a better professional. I don't want someone to blow smoke at me. Like if call a Turkey, a Turkey, like if I'm not doing something right, just say like, you can say it nicely, but I just want to know it so if I'm not doing something right, just say like, you can say it nicely,

but I just want to know it so that I can fix it. Otherwise I'm going to keep going on doing whatever I'm doing wrong. But what I think has been cool about having mentors that are women, particularly in the more recent years, it's just cool to see a woman in a power position mentoring. Like I can appreciate it from all sides. The way it feels now is great to have women and men in leadership positions. And I guess my eyes are being opened to what mentorship looks like with women at the helm. Yeah. It would shock most people to know that I'm not the biggest believer in women always mentoring women, especially given what I do. I think it's shocking. I really think the most productive you can be is when you have that balance of masculine and feminine. That doesn't necessarily mean men and women. I just mean that masculine and feminine energy, you know, perspective, character traits and, and all of that. And so I actually think it's really important for women to be mentored by men or, or feminine to be mentored by masculine and vice versa. And to, and to be exposed to both,

I almost always have had two coaches and, and not strategically, but the way that it worked out is more often than not, it was a man and a woman. And I totally agree with that. Cause I, you know, I think the big thing is they have to be your ally. They have to be, the trust has to be there. And then from there it blossoms. But thinking back to some of the mentors I had early on in life, they were men, but they were very much in my corner. And they had the perspective to things to be like, Hey, you know, this may look a certain way, you know, because it was the good old boys club when I was younger and it, you know, it still exists, but they had a perspective to things when I was younger and in my twenties and just wanted to go to the bar with my friends and drink, you know, they,

they gave me wise words just to make sure that the perception everyone else had of me was Rachel, the professional, like the kick-ass badass professional and, and not to blur the line of Rachel, the young 20 year old or the pretty young 20, you know, they were conscious of optics and always kind of had my back on like, I know you for who you are, but just know that there's a perception outside of that, you know, be mindful. And they sort of put the light on things that I definitely wouldn't have seen from a woman's perspective. I just wouldn't have seen it at that age and from a woman's perspective. Agreed. I wouldn't want only mentorship or coaching from somebody who saw things the way I saw them. I don't need more of me.

I need, you know, difference and a different way of seeing and doing things. So, okay. My last question is around what you see as your competitive advantage being a woman in finance. So we talked about that sort of a little bit earlier, but specifically as it relates to being a woman in finance, what do you see as your biggest competitive advantages? The power of standing out in the crowd. You know, what became very apparent throughout my entire career is that you're just noticed more for being a woman. You're just totally noticed more for being a woman.

And at times often for mediocre work, but you're observed nonetheless. I realized, you know, if I show up 10 minutes early, I'm going to be noticed for it. Same also applies though, if I show up late. So I lean into knowing that my presence will always be noted and often expected to be average. So when I show up strong, I'm just gonna draw more attention than a man with equal talent. That, and I would add just from my perspective,

as it relates to finance, if you look at what's happening with what I call a transfer of wealth, and I don't mean from men to women, I mean a more leveling out of or balancing of wealth among men and women. And if you look at the statistics about women graduating from college at a higher rate, getting their MBA at a higher rate, starting businesses at a higher rate, and then the general preference of women to work with a female financial advisor, I'm not saying that makes your job easy. I know your job is

incredibly hard, but that difference has an advantage in the market. Yeah. I think there's just a advantage. If you're aware of the differences and you lean into them with anything, you'll have success, right? Like I, I think there's just that lean into who you are and it, or at least that's the learning lesson for me. It's just leaning into the fact that I'm a woman, that I'm, you know, who I am, all the pros and cons of the weird Rachel James that I am. Everything just becomes a competitive advantage just by default because I own it. Yeah. I often feel like this towards the end of recording episodes, but I just feel like we could keep talking for hours and I wish we could.

But Rachel, thank you so much for your perspective, for your demonstration of confidence, for encouraging us to all lean into what makes us different and unique and owning it and using it in a way that benefits not only ourselves, but others as well. I'm a huge fan of you and so appreciative of your time. Likewise, Nicole, this has been so fun. And I agree. I could have talked to you all day. We didn't have wine and cheese.

That is right. That is the only problem with this scenario. So if you're listening and you'd love to learn more about Rachel or connect with her or leverage her for financial planning, you can visit dot N M.com. So R A C H E L J A M E S dot N as a Nancy M as a Mary.com. So Rachel James.nm.com or check her out on LinkedIn, Rachel James. Um, and I want to close this out by acknowledging that some women prefer to work mostly with men or find they naturally have what might be considered more masculine traits or strengths. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And you should work in environments where your authentic self is not just accepted, but valued. Just make sure you're willing to do the same thing I ask men to do. Be open to different perspectives and experiences. Value

the feminine in women and in men as equally important to the success and productivity of your business. Create cultures of respect, support other women. And if you don't have anything positive to say about other women in your industry, then shut your pie hole. For those of you that are blazing new trails in industries that are historically overrun by men, hold on to those blowtorches and keep applying the pressure. We need you. We see you. We support you. And we celebrate you. In the amazing words of R.H. Sin, some women fear the fire while some women simply become it. If that fire is lit within you, trust me when I say it will burn brighter than any of the fires that surround you.

And this is woman's work.