This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 063 / Epigenetics with Jessica Mcilveen

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

On this episode, I’m joined by Jessica Mcilveen - Epigenetics Coach and Australia’s leading family relationship expert, to educate us on how our behaviors and environments can actually change and affect the way our genes work. We are all different, but even in your uniqueness you are exactly as you’re meant to be. You were born whole. You can fight against that, judge yourself, you can make yourself right or wrong, OR you always have the option to embrace yourself while also seeking to understand others. Your body is fascinating, you are literally a walking miracle, therefore you should take care of yourself and learn what you need to thrive. This Is Woman’s Work. To learn more about Jessica Mcilveen please visit: jessicamcilveen.com To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Coming up on this episode of This Is Woman's Work. Once we understand what our body is trying to achieve, there's less judgment and more understanding, and that's a gift. It's a gift for us all. Today on This Is Woman's Work, we're gonna talk about epigenetics and why it's transforming family relationships. In full transparency, until a few hours before the recording of this podcast,

I had absolutely no clue what epigenetics was. So like any good host would, I Googled it, so I wouldn't sound like a complete idiot. But after about 20 minutes, I realized I have no actual hope of sounding educated on this subject. So I'm not even going to pretend. Thank God we all have different passions and areas of expertise, right? And so that we can all learn, I've invited Jessica McIlvain, epigenetic coach and Australia's leading family relationship expert to educate us, or maybe just me, on how our behaviors and our environments can actually change and affect the way our genes work. Jessica, thank you so much for being here today. And I apologize in advance if my questions are either super basic or totally off. That'll be perfect. Hello. Good

morning. Good afternoon to you all. It's so great to be here with you, Nicole. I love it. Okay. So in layman's terms, what is epigenetics? And am I even saying it right? Yeah, you sure are. Epigenetics. Perfect. Perfect. So how I'm going to explain it is more of the application side of it. Okay. So what understanding our epigenetics does for us. So, you know, for those of you who may love to read and get into the science, you'll know that a man by the name of Bruce Lipton about 20 years ago started studying and realizing that epigenetics was something we need to know so there was all of these theories around genes right being being the determinant of who we are and what he found was this was such a victim mentality that we have no

control over our body our mind our behaviors our behaviors, our health, our well-being. And, you know, with his little Petri dishes and what he got up to in the science labs, he started to realize that our cells are 95% of the time dictated by our lifestyle and what's going on outside of us. So in a practical sense, what I work with and how we apply it is that when I'm testing my clients, epigenetic health types is what I'm testing for. And what this means is I am testing to understand what the dominant hormone is in their body okay so we can have six dominant hormones on top of this i'm also testing to find out what are the most developed organs in that person's body okay because this all intertwines with each other now once i understand those particulars, and this is just very generalized, I can understand then how those hormones and how that body developed dictates that person's psychology and their behavior and their thought patterns and their processes and what they're driven by and what they feel they need, okay? Because the thing is, is that our body is an intelligent and wise system. Now, when we understand how the biology, okay,

which is our epigenetics, understand, when we understand what our biology is trying to achieve, okay? So how it's trying to achieve balance is going to be different for those six people okay those six health types and i'll give examples in a second but it will be different for those six people so what happens then is our unconscious mind is constantly trying to get our body back into balance, which then determines our behaviors. What are we doing to try and get our body back into balance? Now, sometimes it's going to be

behaviors that are helpful and not so helpful. Okay. So then we get to go through all of that. So by understanding our biology first, then we understand the behaviors, then we understand what we need to feel better in our body because our body is that feedback system to our mind constantly. Am I okay? Am I safe? Is this a calm environment for me? Do I need to be stressed? Do I need to be anxious? Our body is our feedback system. So in understanding it, well, we take the control back understanding it well we take the control back right we take the control back we get to understand and in my work this is invaluable for parents who I want to understand their children and understand what are they trying what need are they trying to meet so in a nutshell that's the overarching definition would say, and the goal of this work.

That is fascinating. So a couple questions that popped into my head, and I'd love to hear about those six health types, but can they change over time or do we just tend to gravitate towards one health type? So this is all being determined in utero. Okay. So in our womb, everything is already at play. So our, the, the organs that have decided to be the strongest have already been determined in our mother's womb. The dominant hormone is already being decided in our mother's womb. Okay. And this decides, this dictates the size of our body, the size of our skeletal system decides all of that. So as, as a child up until 18, we have primary and secondary. Okay. Because

we are still developing. we still do have lifestyle circumstances that are still influencing us so we have primary and secondary however once we reach adulthood then we we have one now unless there is um unless there is major trauma or some major event that happens in our world it's's consistent through our adulthood. So we might change a couple of numbers because we work in numbers with it too, within each category. So we might change numbers a little bit, but it will remain consistent in adulthood. I feel like every mother and every pregnant woman listening probably just panicked a little bit. Is there anything we should be mindful of while our children are in utero to impact this health type or epigenetics?

So the beautiful part is, is that every health type is perfect. There is no better or worse health type. Although when you get to adulthood, you're still comparing yourself to these other health types, which is the fascinating part, but there is, they're all perfect. And I guess my, my suggestion and the only thing that all mothers, you know, are probably trying to achieve during pregnancy or should remain focused on is just how to keep calm and relaxed as much as possible, how to keep that cortisol out of the body as much as possible. That's it. But every health type is perfect. I'm so glad that you said that. I think we sometimes worry, you know, do we get the short end of the stick or, you know, is there something wrong with us or something better about how somebody else is wired or what have you? So

that is really good news. So Jessica, will you tell us a little bit about each of the six health types? Yeah. So I'll, I'll go around. So it's a circle. So I'll go around the circle and just give a bit of an example. I'll share the dominant hormones in each and then just the dominant need that they try to get met through all behaviors, how they see the world, all of that. So when we start, so there's one called a crusader and they're named perfectly due to what's going on in their mind. Okay. So crusader, and that's me.

So I'm a crusader. My dominant hormone is dopamine. Now, for those of you who know a little bit about hormones, fantastic. So you'll know that dopamine is really this reward-based hormone. So this will get released in my body when I achieve something. So what am I constantly focused on? Who do I want to achieve? Okay.

Is it any wonder that I am running my company? Not a chance in the world. I want to achieve. Okay. So dopamine gives me the reward. It's like a drug. Now, the thing is with dopamine is that every hit you get, you want more and more and more. So it is actually like a drug.

You do get resistant to it. And that's why one of the shadow sides of being a crusader is that there is this sense of never being 100% satisfied. So then that's why we get to work on that through programs that I offer. Then we move up. So we go into up around the circle, we go into activator. So activator, the dominant hormone is adrenaline. Okay. So if you can imagine this being a dominant hormone, these guys and gals, do they have energy? Okay. They have energy. Now these, these, um, these people are focused on the here and now, okay. Because adrenaline is a very present hormone. It's the fight flight hormone.

And it's, it's very much around needing to move all the time and be busy. Okay. So in actual fact, when I work with families and work with schools, this is quite common for children that have ADHD is that these are them, right? They just, they need to move. Otherwise they cannot focus. They cannot be present. They cannot learn. And when you have adrenaline pumping through your body and you're not given the freedom to move and verbally express yourself, then we have issues when it comes to irritation,

anger, frustration, not being accepted for who they are. So, you know, that's what's going on for them because adrenaline is pumping through their body, but they're very muscly. Okay. So that's their body type is the very quite, they're shortish, but they're very muscular in nature. Okay. They're born to fight, right? Of course, if you've got adrenaline, you've got the body to match it. Okay. So, and then we move up to connector. The name says it all. Okay. These, these people want to connect. They're run by oxytocin. So for parents who find this out and they're just like, my child is so needy and just is their attention seeking. And, you know, so it's a game changer.

And especially if the parent is not in this zone themselves. Okay. So this is where we get to find out what dynamics are not helpful here. What do we need to understand? So these guys and gals, they're driven to connect with people. Okay. They want to be around people. That's where the natural extroverts, this is where they get their energy from. They need to be with people. So being isolated, say in the last year with what we've been experiencing, then I've had quite a few clients where their mental health has wavered. The children have not been able to deal with being at home because they have not been able to have that hormonal balance in their body. Their

nervous system is saying something's not right here. Where is my feel good hormone? Where is my loving connection hormone being released to allow me to feel good in my body? So it's just not happening. And then we move around to guardian. Now you can imagine the guardians to be your Italian nonnas. Okay. So they are, their dominant hormone is prolactin. All right. So prolactin is the nurturing hormone. So when you're pregnant, prolactin increases, okay? So it's also the breastfeeding hormone. So their run, their mind is purely seeking to nurture and look after other people.

That's it. They have no concept of putting themselves first. They want to provide for their family. Okay. So, and they mostly do this around food. Okay. Now there's a reason for it. So the reason why it surrounds food and nurturing others is because what happens if they don't feel like their family is happy and safe, then their body feels the need to store fat. Okay. Because what do you need when you need to go and protect and nurture people? Well, you need energy, which means you need those fat stores. So we often find, and what happens with these women and men is that when they're out of balance and something is wrong in their world, their family is not safe or healthy or well or happy, then they get cravings. They put on weight. So then we've got this whole world of

people who hate themselves and hate their bodies when in actual fact, this is not about your body. This is about your beautiful gift. And we've just got to figure out what's going on in your family life to bring your body back into balance. Okay. So, and this is the beautiful part of these health types is that we have the size of our body for a reason. So it actually brings this beautiful self-acceptance layer over all people.

Okay. So the big, the small, the muscly, the wide shoulders, There's a reason for all of it. I'm never going to have Beyonce's booty and yet I've wanted it for my whole 33 years of living, but that's not going to happen. Anyway, and then we moved down into Diplomat. So Diplomat, their core hormone is serotonin. It's produced in the gut. This is the pleasure hormone the feel-good hormone now gut health is so important so important so i often find with diplomats their gut health is out of balance okay and is it any wonder that they're affected so quickly when in the western world we have high cortisol rates we have high stress levels we rush around okay and when this is all happening in a diploid body, serotonin has

no chance to be released. Cortisol stops it. Stress stops it. Being rushed will stop it. Okay. And when you're a busy mom or a busy woman, you know that you're feeling rushed. You're feeling busy. You're feeling a bit stressed. So then they're not feeling good. So they don't feel healthy. They don't feel well, they feel stressed. And then we come back down to the bottom and we've got Sensai. Now these guys and gals, they run by Vaziprosin. So they're our beautiful, really tall, slender people. Okay. Now their nervous system is on high alert all of the time. So these are the guys and gals who are processing information at such a rapid rate because they're seeking safety, okay? So their skin, their hearing, their sight,

all of their senses are on high alert. So they actually are the shy ones. They don't really want to be around people because it's too much for them. Their nervous system needs to relax, but they are, their dominant organ is their brain. Okay. So they are very analytical. They think their way out of problems. Again, they don't have the body to get themselves out of problems. They have the mind to do it. So we all have our strengths. We all have our beautiful strengths.

So, you know, these are the ones where parents say, my child just can't make friends properly. Why are they so shy? They stay in the corner at birthday parties. Or that guy, he's a bit weird. He doesn't really talk to people. Well, guess what? He's just got a different nervous system to you. And he's actually doing what his body wants him to do.

Good for him or her, right? So there's just, once we understand what our body is trying to achieve there's less judgment and more understanding and that's a gift it's a gift for us all yeah it it makes me think of the value of self-awareness and then self-acceptance and then self-love and how often we do damage to ourself by thinking we're supposed to be some way that we're not. So how do you determine what's the process you go through? So I'm guessing I can't just walk around and determine somebody's health type, but how do you, how do you figure that out? Yeah. So I can, I can usually, I can, and I'll tell you why, and this is how we determine it. So I said a little while ago that depending on the hormone that is dominant in your body will determine your skeletal system size and structure. Okay. So remember I said that we've got prolactin, which is the big body, or we've got vasopressin, which is the slender body, or we've got me dopamine where I'm slender, but I still, I am, I'm still have

the potential to build muscle. And then we've got all the different body types. So we, we measure the skeletal system. So I go through, so it takes about an hour process. So we're going through, we're measuring every bone, every body part structure around the wrist, all of the femur bones, the jaw, the neck, the skull, we're measuring everything. Okay. Because that's how, that's how we determine your what's going on in your body. And then once we know that there's a whole array of health questions, because once we understand your epigenetics, and then we understand your health at the moment, we know what's out of balance. And then we know how to rectify it and bring everything back into balance. So your mental health and your energy and wellbeing

is, is able to thrive like it should. Amazing. Does our sex play any part in our health type? Yeah, I would in my experience, and that's probably an answer that I don't know for 100%, to be honest with you. But in my experience, I would say that there's probably more of one type in male and women. But to be honest, because I work with more women, then my stats are even off with that too. So I don't, it's not something that I'm 100% sure of. I appreciate you saying that. I think, you know, it's important when we're not totally sure to say we're not totally sure.

You mentioned we're a crusader because we want to be the most intelligent people on the planet. I can relate. I feel you. I know. I have a tendency to be a little bit of a know-it-all. So I try. You mentioned when you were going through on one of them, specifically the shadow side. So I would imagine all have, like you said, perfect and wonderful and amazing, but all have these sort of shadow sides. As you work with so many women, can you give maybe a couple examples of the shadow sides and how they might look or play out? Yeah, sure, sure. So I'll start at the top. So we'll start at connected this time. So the shadow side, okay, when you are seeking connection all of the time, because that's your drug of choice, what the shadow then is that from a young age, you become a chameleon.

So you wear all of these masks to satisfy every different type of personality around you, because please just connect with me. Please just like me so that I can get my hit of what I need and be around people. So then as we get older, I mean, you are on foot. The shadow side is that you lose your sense of self. It's you're wearing so many masks that you're appeasing the other person instead of yourself. So then that's what we get. That's what I help a lot of my clients with is, okay, well, how do we reinvent yourself, reconnect with your identity instead of needing to wear these masks all of the time, because that's just constantly meaning that you're losing your own sense of self. Okay. So that's the shadow.

That's the main shadow side of a connector then we move to a guardian so they're nurturing okay giving giving giving giving so the shadow side is is that because they're giving all of the time they can again they can neglect themselves but for a different reason now the beautiful thing is with a guardian the second they do something for themselves and this is you know sometimes it's hard to explain but the second they do things for themselves and this is, you know, sometimes it's hard to explain, but the second they do things for themselves is the second that they lose weight. The second that they start to feel better, it's instantaneous with their body, but the shadow is, so they, they put everybody else first and that's what their body wants them to do. But the thing is, is that it builds so much resentment within them. So the

stubbornness and the anger tends to creep on in for guardians. And, and I've met a lot of guardians who either filled with resentment or there's this sense of depression for them, this experience of depression because, well, who's filling their tank. And it's so, you know, they're doing what their body wants, but in there, it's still creating that resentment. So that's the shadow side, right? They get forgotten. Then we come around to Diplo. Okay. So shadow side is, you know, as the name says, diplomat. Now, when you've got serotonin as your dominant hormone, you want pleasure, you want peace, you want slow and steady, okay? Now, what this means is you avoid conflict at all cost, all cost.

So you are the constant mediator. You're constantly just trying to people please, right? Because you don't want conflict around you. Just please let everything be okay and And we can go back to being peaceful and everybody will be okay. All right. So the shadow is, is that you never really voice your own thoughts and opinions. If it's going to conflict with those around you, because you don't want to disturb the peace because that's what your body yearns for constantly then we come around to sensor all right which is our um you know our slender slender people who are run by vasopressin so the shadow side is is that they are they're

incredibly analytical like i shared with you and they are they're happy on their own. However, the thing is, is that when you isolate yourself consistently and constantly, then this is what slips them into a sense of dissatisfaction. And, and I say this word depression, and it's just because that's the experience of it, right? It's flat, it's disassociative, it's, it's disconnected, but it's it's disconnected but it will feel different for everybody um so there where the shadow side is is that they are so analytical that they isolate themselves they think they know everything more than other people so they often will if they sink into that too much they often won't have many people that like them anyway, because they're not that personable. Okay. Because they don't want to be like anybody else. So they isolate, isolate, isolate. And, you know, although that is where they're safe, we're still humans and connection

and belonging is still important. Okay. It's not as important for them as a connector, but it's still important. So unless they know this about themselves, then they'll be feeling flat and they won't really have an understanding as to why. And then we go into crusader. So the shadow side here is that they are so tunnel vision. Okay. Because remember that they get their hits from rewards like achieving. So they're tunnel vision, okay? So if you get in the way of whatever they're trying to do, do not expect to be met with open arms if we're not conscious to it, okay?

So they're so tunnel vision, the shadow side is that they forget all people around them, all right, because they're focused. And what happens is once they're trying to achieve something, if they don't perceive themselves to have achieved and they've failed, the dopamine crash comes in. Now this is, this is hard to experience as a crusader because it's like the whole world has ended. I'm a failure. And it's like, I actually just don't want to get out of bed. So that's their experience of being totally flat and depressed. Okay. Because the dopamine is not hitting them. All right. But they, they, you know know neglect the people around them because of that

reason then we come up and we've got activator so the shadow side here with our activators now they're desperate to express themselves because they have so much energy and that's wonderful the shadow side is is that it is unfortunately it's perceived as quite aggressive by the outside world. And so what happens is they suppress that energy, okay? They suppress it because they've been made wrong for it, okay? Why are you so, like, can't you just calm down? They'll get often. Why are you so energetic? Just sit down for five minutes, would you? Right? All of these things, they get told constantly, constantly. So they suppress. They suppress their energy.

They suppress their emotions. They suppress their anger. All of that. And this then leads to complete sometimes one of two things happen. So they'll explode and erupt with people around them. Absolutely happens constantly, or they will completely shut off, shut down. And then that's their experience of being flat, disassociative in that depressive state. So unless they have these people around them that accept their expressiveness and their energy, then they suppress.

And for those of you who understand what that feels like on a constant basis, that's not okay to our body, to our mind, or to our soul. It doesn't help us in any way. In your work, how often are people able to self assess or how often do when you kind of explain, do people go, Oh, I know exactly which health type I am or how often are they wrong? Cause I'm, I'm thinking as you're going through it, I'm one of two of those, but what do you think? I think either the crusader that seems the most obvious but when you were talking about the guardian that kind of hit me a little too so I'm not sure yeah okay okay um so just because and just because I can see you right now I would say that your

dominant would not be crusader so we we all, we have all six. Okay. But the thing is, we always have that one dominant. Gotcha. Okay. So that will come second for you, right? Or a third or whatever it is, but that won't be your dominant. Just because I can see your body structure at the moment.

So how often? You know, it's interesting because most people can have a good guess. When I've had discussions like this, most people can have a good guess because, you know, they can resonate this inner knowing, right, of how I explain. And it's interesting because when people guess something different, it's usually got to do with their conditioning and what they've been led into. So this happens in childhood, right? This is why when parents want to understand their young kids, this is what I'm here for, right? Because let's not make who they are wrong

right now and force them into a different health type, which is going to impact their health and wellbeing for the rest of their lives. So because we often, if our parents are opposite to us, which happens, so I have to say for the most part, when parents come to me and they're going cuckoo, it's often because they're opposite to their children. And so when we understand what our parents may have encouraged more of, was it usually comes back to their conditioning

and their childhood because whatever they are has been just made wrong. Yeah. Okay. So that brings me to my last question. Self-acceptance is a big enough thing on its own, but then you add in relationship. And so epigenetics and your health type probably gets a little bit more complicated in a partnership or an intimate relationship, or as you've referenced, you know, parent child relationship or child parent relationship.

So how do you use epigenetics to help people learn how to accept each other and I don't know, communicate or understand another person they love? Yeah. Yeah. And what, what comes to me right now is we are as humans, we're constantly judging, okay? We're constantly judging for right and wrong. That's how we, you know, and your brain is probably doing that right now, judging what I'm saying compared to previous people that you've listened to, maybe what you read on Google, maybe the books that you've read. And for those of you listening to me, your brain is still doing that based on what I'm saying.

You're determining right and wrong based on what you know to be true in your brain, okay? And this doesn't help us in relationships when we're constantly judging for the right and wrong. So when people come to me, what they're really seeking is more of the understanding. So when we put the understanding lens on rather than the judgment lens, then there's space for peace, then there's space for love and connection.

There's no space for that when our lens is judgment. There's no space for that. So when people, and I have parent couples who do this with me and obviously then I have family units so parents who want to understand their children and then I also get the parents to try and see what their parents might have been too and all of the friends around them so that they're relating it to everybody and when you do this with the lens of understanding we're assuming there's a reason why people are the way that they are instead of assuming that it's wrong because we don't agree with it so i love the quote the the greatest misconception when we speak is that we assume communication has occurred now what this is saying is that if you are a different epigenetic health type to your partner

to your child and you're talking right communication. And quite often, we're just not communicating in a way that the person understands. We process information differently. We understand things differently. I read your body language differently to another person does. We're all so different. And the beautiful aspect and what I find when clients go through this with me is that they realize, oh my gosh, there is nothing wrong with my child. They're just doing it for this reason because that's how they feel safe in their body. Or, oh my gosh, my partner is not lazy. She just needs, or he just needs that calm morning because the serotonin gets produced in the mornings and they actually need the calm morning or, oh my God, my husband is not trying

to ignore me. He's just really focused on that right now. So what I'll do, we'll come up with a plan. I'll communicate in this way. I'll set a time or I'll say, honey, can I have 10 minutes of your time in half an hour? Is that okay with you? Instead of storming in and going, all right, so I've got to talk to you about this and we're going to do this, this and this, right? For a crusader mind, that's really stressful.

So it's about understanding what each other requires to still keep that harmony, but just create more understanding nobody is in any relationship to do harm and when we can come from that lens then then we're more likely to live in harmony and peace let's just choose to understand rather than judge and that's why I love this framework because that's what it allows rather than a lot of traditional approaches I've found in my experience. This is so fascinating. And you've said so many amazing things. I wish we had more time, but Jessica, thank you for explaining epigenetics and really you've piqued my curiosity big time,

not just for myself, but within my family unit. So if you're listening and you want to learn more about Jessica and her work, you can go to her website at jessicamckelveen.com. So it's spelled J-E-S-S-I-C-A-M-C-I-L-V-E-E-N.com. And we'll put it in the show notes as well. Or you can follow her on Instagram at first name dot last name or find her on Facebook or LinkedIn. Jessica, will you share just a little bit more about your family epigenetic program and also the program you offer for moms as well? Yeah, sure. So my, the family epigenetic program is really an opportunity for parents to have the whole family tested and then start working towards a beautiful goal of harmony, understanding, knowing each other's strengths. So we get all family members tested and then we go through each week what's really important.

So what are the learning styles? What are the communication styles? What is connection to each person? What is a relationship to each person? What does each person need or what are they driven by psychologically to achieve? What's going on for each person. And for the most important part, well, what tools do we need to teach our children, but also what tools do we need

to start bringing our nervous system back into balance? Because if you think that you can respond to your external environment in a calm, peaceful, and satisfying way when your body is out of balance, there's no way. So let's start getting our bodies back into balance. And then that way our external environment will start looking a whole lot better. The internal is just a reflection of the external and vice versa. So let's get it working in harmony.

So that's the family epigenetic program for parents that want to understand each other, but also their children. And then the opportunity that I have for mums working within me in the six-month container is really an absolute reinvention of the woman, an absolute revival of her body, her soul, her connection to herself, what it means to be her. And I got to tell you, it's a lot of fun. Okay. I like adventure. I like fun. And so we go deep. We're in action. We have fun. We do outrageous activities and tasks, and I have all these days planned for them. So it's really about getting the body into balance, the mindset restructured, reorganized in a way that's going to serve her and get this spirit to feel excited again, to feel rejuvenated again. And like she knows herself again. So they're, they're the two opportunities that I have for people to work with me. You are so speaking my language right now.

Jessica, thank you so much. You're so welcome, Nicole. It was so nice to talk with you and everyone listening. Okay, so here are a few takeaways that I have from today. First, we are all different, but even in your uniqueness, you are exactly as you're meant to be. You were born perfect. And you can fight against that, or you can judge yourself.

You can make yourself right or wrong. Or you do always have the option to embrace yourself while also seeking to understand others. And the biggest takeaway is that our bodies are fascinating. We are literally all walking miracles and we should take care of our bodies and take care of ourselves and give ourselves what we need to thrive. This is woman's work.