This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 073 / Getting Rejected By Adam Grant

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

This is a story of rejection… my rejection. By Adam Grant. But it’s probably not the story you think it is. Let me start by sharing, I am a BIG fan of Adam Grant. I’ve read his books (#1 NY Times bestseller “Think Again, most recently), listen to his podcast “WorkLife”, and follow him religiously on social media (@adamgrant on IG). And getting rejected by him made me an even bigger fan of him and his work. Because he reminded me that rejection can be a gift, a lesson, an opportunity and a blessing… and you don’t need to be an a-hole about it. Listen in to hear my story of rejection... Let me also add a loving reminder that our heartbreaks, unanswered prayers, “nos”, and even ghosting are often the universe's way of redirecting us towards something or someone else. That rejection is part of success, and the more “nos” you collect, the more “yeses” that will come along with them. What we really need to be doing is getting rejected more often, by bigger and better people. This is Woman’s Work. To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Coming up on this episode of This Is Woman's Work. Rejection can also build confidence, can help you grow, and can actually put you in a better position. I am Nicole Kalil, and I'm here today to share a story of rejection, and not just a random story, but my story of being rejected by Adam Grant. Now, before I get into how I got rejected, I want to make sure you're clear on who I got rejected by. For those of you who don't know who Adam Grant is, let me start by saying he is not an ex-boyfriend or someone I know personally at all. This is not a story of unrequited love or a heartbreak, though I have several of those stories too. But that's another topic for another day that would

probably need to include far too many cocktails, some 90s R&B slow jams, and possibly a few yearbooks or photo albums to elicit the appropriate amount of emotional turmoil that fostered all the pain, self-doubt, and bad decisions of those rejections in my life. Now, Adam Grant is an organizational psychologist famous for his million listens per episode podcast called Work Life, for his New York Times bestselling books like Option B, which he co-authored with Sheryl Sandberg, Give and Take, Originals, and most recently Think Again, which simultaneously reinforced some of my emerging beliefs and

also completely blasted my mind with new ways of thinking. Adam Grant coined the term languishing as the predominant emotion of 2021 and is challenging corporate structures, management practices, and the way things have always been done. And is an overall champion of rethinking work environments where all people can thrive and bring their best. Basically, Adam Grant is someone I'm professionally obsessed with. And now that I've said that out loud, I can recognize that that sounds like a nicer, more polished way of saying that I'm a stalker. So to be clear, I'm not like professionally obsessed in a stalker way. I don't know things about him that are a matter of public record,

and I have never, nor will I ever stalk him. What I mean is that I respect, admire, and appreciate his work. He's someone I wish I'd have the opportunity to learn from personally and collaborate with professionally. He's kind of like a professional hero of mine and not a superhero because I know those don't exist in real life and he's probably not perfect and he's not an Avenger or anything like that. And right about now you're getting some insight into what happens to me when I have a fangirl moment. Too many words, not enough filter. So let's just leave it as I'm a big fan of his work. And one day in August, August 27th to be exact, I know this because I still have the email in my inbox.

I put my big girl pants on, chose confidence, even though I wasn't totally feeling it, and wrote him an email asking if he joined me as the first man to be a guest on the This Is Woman's Work podcast. And then I hit send. And then I reread the email like seven times, thought about recalling it because I forgot to say this and probably could have worded that better. You know, the crazy mind fuck that happens right after you take a risk and put yourself out there. Yeah, I did that for about 10 minutes and then I moved forward with my life until about 19 minutes later when I saw his response in my inbox. At that point, I took a few deep breaths,

crossed my fingers and toes, and reminded myself that it was a long shot in the first place, and I would be okay either way. Like, yes was obviously the best answer, but I wouldn't lose anything by getting a no. And then I opened the email. And I'm pretty sure you can figure out what happened from the title of this episode. So why am I sharing this? Well, because I was right that I didn't have anything to lose. But what I forgot in those seconds before I opened the email is that rejection can also build confidence, can help you grow, and can actually put you in a better position. So here's what actually happened.

First, I'd like to note that he responded himself, at least I think he did, with three very kind sentences that honored his boundaries, was definitely a clear no, and included an offer to suggest other people that might be a good fit instead of him. I thanked him and let him know that I knew it was a long shot and that I appreciated would absolutely take him up on his offer to suggest other guests, to which he responded with 17 names and a note to let me know that I could feel free to tell them that he sent me. I quickly responded. And by the way, it's really lucky that it's harder to gush via email, but that's basically what I was doing. So I responded that rejection had never felt this good and I meant it. And here's why. First, after I'd wasted those 10

minutes overthinking my email, I began to recognize that feeling of pride in myself for doing it in the first place. Before I even got his response, and regardless of what it would have been, I had started experiencing the feelings that are connected with confidence from me. Things like pride that I took a risk, trust that I would be okay no matter what, pleased with myself that I chose to get into action, thrilled that I was aiming high and doing something big. While I love hearing yeses just as much as anybody else, no is actually my second favorite answer and can absolutely be productive and done in a kind way. Frankly, the maybes and the no responses that really drive me nuts. And I've

learned that the more no's I collect, the more yeses that seem to come along with them. So every time I do something like this, the no's bother me less and less. And I realize what I really need to be doing is getting rejected more often and by bigger and better people. This experience was also a good reminder that saying no isn't the same thing as being mean or rude or unkind. We can say no clearly and leave the other person feeling respected and even better off for it, just like Adam Grant did for me. I'm taking that lesson forward in two very important ways. One being to say no more often and not equate it in my own mind

with being anything negative, but rather with honoring my boundaries and managing my energy. The other thing I'm taking forward is that saying no can still be helpful and be done in an efficient and effective way. I don't know if you've ever done this, but I have a bad habit of feeling like I need to explain my no's. So I end up with long rambling responses that probably ooze of guilt

and water my no's down into maybe's. And that really doesn't benefit anyone and often creates resentment, at least on my part. With three short sentences, Adam Grant hit this rejection trifecta and provided me with an experience I'm carrying forward with confidence of how to say no and not be a jerk, like at all. Rejection can be a gift, a lesson, an opportunity, and a blessing. In this case, I think it's pretty easy to see that. Of the 17 people he introduced me to, I've reached out to eight so far. Three have said yes to being on the podcast, and I'm so excited about the expertise and

the topics they'll be sharing. And two of the people asked that I follow up in the new year. And two, I just emailed, so I don't know the outcome yet. So to recap and give you an overview, my one rejection from Adam Grant turned into five probable yeses so far, and I'm only halfway through the list. And it turns out when you tell people Adam Grant sent you, things seem to go pretty well. And his no really was a gift. This may be harder to see, but the not so kind rejections can be gifts too. Our heartbreaks, unanswered prayers, no responses, and even ghosting are often the universe's

way of redirecting us towards something or someone else. I know knowing that doesn't make it suck any less when you're actually being rejected, but I always tell myself that the one thing that's missing in those moments is the benefit of hindsight. That I don't yet know what purpose this serves or how this rejection is protecting me or moving me forward to something better,

but that I can trust that it will because it always has. I believe in this concept that rejection is actually just redirection. The painful breakups, heartbreak, and wanting to be with a couple of guys that didn't want to be with me led me ultimately to the healthiest relationship with the best partner I could have ever hoped for. The getting passed over for opportunities that having to deal with corporate politics and frankly being paid less than my male counterparts led me to start and build my own business, to find my purpose and to do more of what I love. And getting rejected by Adam Grant has connected

me to amazing people I wouldn't know otherwise, is going to benefit all of us through the podcast, and has made me an even bigger fan of him and his work. And I'd highly recommend that you read his books, listen to his podcast, and follow him on social media. Maybe, maybe one day his no may turn into a yes, and I'll get to have him as a guest here on the podcast. The girl can hope, right? So my message to all of us is this, get out there and risk getting

rejected a lot because no's are part of getting yeses and you can't be successful and you can't be confident without them. We all face setbacks and that's okay. It's all a part of learning. And as a favorite quote of mine says, just make sure your comeback is stronger than your setback. And that my friends is a highly important part of doing woman's work.