This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 082 / Fear Is Your Friend with Judi Holler

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

I’ve become convinced that fear has gotten a bad rap. What if fear is not the enemy? What if fear is just misunderstood, and if you actually spent some time with it and got to know it a little better, you’d actually discover that fear is your friend? In today’s episode of This Is Woman’s Work, I’m going to ask you to be open to setting aside everything you’ve heard and think you know about fear, so that you can begin to access the possibilities and opportunities that embracing fear creates for you. Here to help us do that is Judi Holler - Author of the instant bestseller Fear Is My Homeboy, host of the top rated podcast “Yes, And”, International Keynote Speaker, Creator and CEO of Haus of {&}, and an improve alum of Second City’s Conservatory in Chicago. Judi shares the power of the improvisational mindset, how to unlock the transformational power of {&}, while also challenging us to become best friends with fear. Stop chasing being fearless and start welcoming fear to your life by making space for it. You’ll never be able to outrun it or get rid of it, but you can befriend it and get really good at doing things even while feeling afraid. And that my friends is Woman’s Work. To learn more about Judi you can find her on Instagram @judiholler, or visit judiholler.com for more info. To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Coming up on this episode of This Is Woman's Work. Fear has one job and one job only. It is to stop you. I am Nicole Kalil and I've become convinced that fear has gotten a bad rap. Like failure, doubt, making mistakes, and other such tough emotions and experiences, we've been taught that fear is a bad influence, will only get you into trouble, and should be avoided at all costs. We're encouraged everywhere we look to seek happiness, find joy, and be positive. So much so that when we experience fear or really any negative emotion,

we believe that something must be wrong with the situation or with ourselves. And our only option is to get rid of that feeling as quickly as possible. We're supposed to be fearless, right? Successful women don't experience fear, so we got to shut it down, right? But what if fear is not the enemy or bad influence we've been told? What if fear is just misunderstood? And if you actually spent some time with it, got to know it a little bit better, you'd actually discover that fear is your friend, possibly even one of your best friends. What if fear is necessary to find the happiness, joy, freedom, positivity, success, and confidence you seek? Scary thought, I know, but in today's episode of This is Woman's Work, I'm going to ask you to be open to setting aside everything you've heard and think you know about fear.

Even if it's just for 30 minutes, so you can begin to access the possibilities and the opportunities that embracing fear creates for you. Here to help us do this is Judy Holler, author of the instant bestseller, Fear Is My Homeboy, host of the top-rated podcast, Yes, And, international keynote speaker, creator and CEO of House of And, and improv alum of the Second City Conservatory. Judy shares the power of the improvisational mindset, how to unlock the transformational power of and, while also challenging us to become best friends with fear. Judy, thank you so much for joining me. I really can't wait to dive in. Same. I want to ask you because the idea of doing improv scares the absolute shit out of me.

But I can imagine and you share in your book that doing improv has given you a lot of foundational work or mindset to embrace fear, to take risks. So share with us maybe your few biggest lessons that doing improv taught you. Yeah. One of the very first things we learn in the improv theater is that it is okay to fail. And that actually there are no mistakes on an improv stage. There are only gifts and it's usually our errors, our moments of sort of authentically and organically saying what we feel at our core. That first thing that jumps out when you want to say what you want to say, instead of overthinking, it's that moment that gets the most laughter because it's real and it's from you. And it's so real time authentic. It's when we get in the way, it's when we overthink, it's when we try to be funny. It's when we compete and compare that we really sort of break improv. If there's a way

to break improv, that's the way to break improv. Try to control it. Try to overthink it, right? So there is this mantra that I sort of made my own out of the improv theater. And it's this, that there are no mistakes, only gifts. This means we're going to win or we're going to learn, but we can't lose. Another example, my very first improv show, we were backstage and one of my teachers, this is my first show about to go live on a stage. I have never done public improv before. I've only been in the safe walls of the second city classroom and that's terrifying enough, right? But you start to get comfy in that space. So now we've got to get outside of our comfort zone and put that on

a stage and go put it out into the world and see what happens and test that, test our skills and grow the muscles. So we're backstage with our instructor at the time, and he goes around the room and he sort of taps everybody on their back. And he says, all right, guys, we're going to go out there tonight and I want you to do one thing. And then we were like, what is it? What is it? He's like, I want you guys to go out there and fail. I want you to fail so hard and so bad. I want you to bomb this. I want you to mess this up so bad. And we were all like, what? Like, hold up. Now keep in mind at the time, I mean, I was 30. Okay. When I was taking my very first round of improv classes, I was in corporate America, full-time sales and

marketing, working for hotel companies and have this big job by day. I was not being told that by day I was being told, you know, do whatever you want with the presentation, but like, make sure you copy me. Okay. Or, you know, be yourself with it, wear whatever you want, but wait, do you have pantyhose on? You know what I'm saying? Like hotel world, very corporate, right? Very like stay in the lines, right? Where at night and on my weekends, this is what I'm being told, right? I'm learning to be brave and embrace mistakes and to fail and see where that leads me. And all of that became a really incredible confidence building tool that I could take back into the boardroom and into my life. I would ask for more money. I'd go out on the date. I would say no. I would say

yes. I'd speak my mind, confront the bully, leave environments where I didn't feel safe, right? It was allowing me to increase my tolerance for pain, if you will. And I think a lot of us associate failure with pain and embarrassment. And there's a fear there. One of the things we learned through that beautiful mantra of no mistakes, only gifts. And that's why I lead with that is because we learn to sort of let it go and to reframe it and to take our power back from it because it's in those moments of like deep discomfort of perceived failure of air quotes, getting it wrong, that we get ourselves closer to what is right, to what feels right and truly to what should come next. So I have to say that

foundationally was massive. No mistakes, only gifts. It is massive just in life. I mean, gosh, what a lesson to learn. I wish it was taught in high school, right? We teach this in schools, right? We are talking about this all the time. And it's so funny. When I wrote my book, Ferris, My Homeboy wish I had when I was 20? But also what will the 40, 50, 60 year old badass career woman love to hear right now? So I really wrote my book with that in mind. Like why wasn't this curriculum in school? And if I could put a fear curriculum together,

what would it look like? What book would I hand 20 year old Judy? So she'd go to improv classes at 20 instead of 30. You know what I mean? So yeah, yeah, yeah. No mistakes, only gifts. Foundational. One of the things you shared with me just when we hopped on together was kind of this myth that improv is no preparation. You just go out there, but that it's actually involves quite a bit of preparation. I believe that preparation builds confidence, but I also know we as women often have the tendency

to over prepare, right? We want to be a hundred percent ready before we'll act. It might seem sort of paradoxical. What are your thoughts on preparation and waiting to be ready? Being prepared and then like literally wasting someone's time and winging it, right? Like what is the balance? Yeah, I think, I love that you're touching on this. I think that's the big misnomer about the improv theater and most certainly the work I do. I even hear this when I get on the phone with clients and they're like, oh, well, you're an

improviser. You're cool. You're just going to wait. You'll be able to wing it. You're good. And actually, while I'm flexible, you and I here, we don't have a script. You're prepared. You've got the questions. You've read the book. You know my work. I'm prepared because I know my work. I've done my work on you. I was on your website. I've researched your podcast. I understand your vibe. So I'm prepared, but I'm also flexible, right? So I'm not showing up here having no clue who you are, sort of winging this and wasting everyone's time. We know our work. We're in the moment. We've done the work so that you and I, when it happens,

like we did at the beginning of this podcast, we can go off script confidently because we know how to re-land the plane. So my point, the misnomer is that improvisers just wing it because we have no script. So we just go with the flow. And while it's true, we are flexible. The reason we can do that so confidently is because just go with the flow. And while it's true, we are flexible. The reason we can do that so confidently is because we've done the work. The only reason we make it look so easy

on an improv stage, it's because we are actually using our training and hours and hours of rehearsals and failures and mistakes and mess ups and embarrassments and shows with nobody in the audience. Like it's all of that that allows us to stand on the stage and you to go, how does she do that? We are using tools, techniques. Yes. And listening, being in the moment, trusting ourselves, going with our gut. Like we're using those exercises to be able to improvise when the time comes. When I get tapped in from the back line to come into a scene, I am using the preparation

of being in the moment and listening and focusing and eyes on the prize instead of standing on the back line going, oh my God, how am I going to be funny? And oh my God, wait, I feel uncomfortable in this outfit. Everybody's looking at me. Oh my God. And then I get tapped in and I have no idea what's going on. But if I am focused, if I am ready, if I am in the game, if I am electric, if I am connected to what's going on, I will be able to jump into the moment.

So I'm here with you right now. So let's give an example of how this plays out. So I'm improvising right now. I did not micromanage this process with you. We have no script. We know the heartbeats of where we're going. I know the big ideas. I know what your podcast is about.

You've read my work. So we've done the work, but we have no script, right? So that's how preparation meets the ability to improvise. I'm also here with you, Nicole. I'm listening to you. I'm not on my phone. I am engaged when you're asking me a question. I'm also here with you, Nicole. I'm listening to you. I'm not on my phone. I am engaged. When you're asking me a question, I'm right here. I lean forward, right? She's even got, like, if you could see Nicole right now, she just leaned in as I was giving this answer. She's

got her hands in prayer mode on her chin, and now she's smiling. Like, she is here, and she's really listening, which will allow her to tee up what happens next. So how this is applicable in real life preparation meets what's possible. When you have the courage and confidence to blend the two, you do the work on the front end, but also trust and love yourself enough in the moment to let it go and to simply be who you are and to believe that what you have to say is good enough. And I would add, we're so aligned on this point from your book and so much of what you said reinforces this. It's preparation and action, right?

So preparation, believe yourself, but then you got to get into action at some point in time. And that is also a way you prepare and practice. You can only prepare so much hypothetically at some point in time. Would you agree that a huge part of the preparation and practice comes from the doing? Oh my gosh. I love, okay. So take the big fear that most women listening probably have. If we're in a working, if we're a career woman, if we're CEO, if we're president, if we're leading a team, honestly, it doesn't matter what level of corporate you're in or what level of career you're in, you're going to have to present yourself or present to other people. Most of us have a fear of this, right? Even professional preventer, preventers, presenters get nervous, right? And I always say, I don't know if I trust the speaker

who's not nervous. Like I think we're all nervous because we care, right? Yes. Of course, I'm a little nervous. Are you kidding me? I now know how to control my nerves through the preparation, which brings confidence. So to your beautiful point, when I think of like a keynote, I, even if I've given my everyday improviser talk a hundred times, which I probably have, I respect my audience enough to still run rehearsals on that talk before I go onto that stage. And then I also trust and love myself enough to know that I got to let it go when I get up there, because guess what could happen? Lights could go out, tech go down, heckler, people move. You have one lady in the audience that's got that resting, you know what

face, and you can't get her out of your head and you're not sure what's going on. You're reading the wrong cues. So then you get off course. And it's just like the heckler in the audience in the comedy show. So the way I can vibe with it and bounce with it and dance with it, when tech goes down, it has happened to me in front of thousands of people. The way we keep going without slides is we are prepared. I have done so many rehearsals. I have a printup of my deck. I have, you know, notes on the floor. I have an outline of my key points on the stage. I have post-it notes on my laptop. Like I am thinking through plan A, plan B, plan C, and plan D so that when I get up there, I'm confident because I know if something goes down, I'm prepared, which allows me to improvise. Make sense?

So improvise and preparation and action are the framework. They are the algorithm to confidence every time. So let's talk a little bit about the power of momentum. Why is this important? You know, it's so funny. We've renamed that these days in our world, in the House of And, and on our team. We call it move-mentum because it's really this beautiful blend of energy and energy is action, right? So there's this great Brendan Brouchard quote that says like power plants don't have energy. They don't wake up with energy. They generate energy. And so we have to generate the possibilities,

the opportunities, the connections, the next steps that we want. So momentum and its magic is powerful. You know, it's like a team. I mean, think of the Super Bowl or a team going one way or the other. You can literally feel a team picking up momentum. Like, you know, in physics, momentum is just, you know, truly what happens when an object picks up speed. And so we have to sort of be on this relentless pursuit for opportunities to catch the magic of momentum. And one of the easiest, most tactical ways you can do this is just do the next thing. Not the best thing, not all the things, but the next thing. And that's big in the improv theater. Another lesson, improv theater is not about the best thing. It's about the next thing. All I got to do is get up

there and add something to the scene, move it forward in some capacity. And we use yes and yes. Thank you for that piece of information, improviser. And here's what I'm going to add to it. So this allows us to generate momentum on a stage, which leads to full-blown scenes. Okay. So the way we use this in real life is we say, yes, I need to write a book. And today I'm going to outline the first chapter. Yes, I want to lose 20 pounds, which feels so overwhelming. Today, I'm going to go for a walk around the block. What is that tangible next thing you can do? What is one phone call you can make to advocate for your business or your brand or on your own behalf? What is one email you can send, one letter you can write, one connection you can make? And all of a sudden we do this and we start going, oh, oh,

oh, that feels good. Let me do, let me, you know what I mean? We get so caught up in the overwhelm of the end results that we forget about the power and the magic of the right now and the next thing. So I would challenge you if you've got a big goal this year, like a book or a debt goal, or, you know, moving to a new location, we're relocating to Arizona and that could feel so overwhelming. So what is the, what is the one thing I can do today? What is the next step I can take to take something off of my list instead of focusing on five months from now? And like, how am I going to pack this whole house up? Right. Like, let me take it right back in to the moment and what needs to happen next. This is so good. Cause I think what happens for a lot of us is we have a goal, but it seems

so far away, right? It seems so big or insurmountable. And this, you know, kind of putting one foot in front of the other and getting into what's next versus what's best. I, what I've experienced personally is not only does it make the goal eventually become closer and closer and seem more achievable, but it also creates a sense of pride in myself. Every time I take one step, just like, I feel more proud of myself. I feel more confident that I can, I feel more confident that I will. Yes. Yes. I'm shaking. I'm shaking. If I could shake every part of my body, I would. Yes. I love that feeling. That is the magic of momentum.

I think that's the chapter title, right? Like that is the essence of why I think it's so magical. I love what it does to me internally. Like I did that today. So, I mean, when you run a business, whether you like it or not, actually, let me take that back. If you are a human being breathing oxygen, you have to sell in your life. You have to sell yourself, your services.

If you are a date, if you are in a relationship, you have to sell yourself. We are all salespeople, okay? And branding is essentially sales. So it can feel sticky and icky and people get nervous to promote their product and put themselves out there or say, listen to my podcast or give me a review or all these things. We get so nervous, right? But if I don't know who you are or what you do, how can I hire you, refer you or promote you, right? So we have to be brave enough to advocate on our own behalf. And the reason I went on that rant is, you know, one of my sticky,

icky things is always like making the sales calls and closing business and putting myself out there and pitching myself. And I have to do that on the regular. And I tell you, I keep a little post-it note because we measure these goals every week in our meeting and what we measure them every month, but we talk about them every week in our team meetings. So I keep this little post-it note where I do the little slashes for how many contacts I make and every slash that goes up, it's like, and then I give myself, I take a victory lap. I give myself a reward. Once I get to like, I think I have seven, once I get to seven contacts or reach outs, I get a reward for that. Right. So it could be something

as silly as like, you know, I get to like, I'm getting a pedicure this weekend, or it's like, I'm going to treat myself to like the entire Justin's peanut butter cup package instead of just half, like whatever, like, you know what I mean? I'm going to have wine at four o'clock, you know, or whatever it may be. Right. You pick your reward, but the way it makes me feel like I it's electric. I feel so proud. I feel confident. And I know that I'm advocating on behalf of my business and my brand and my team. And every time I do that, I keep everyone employed and well, and moving forward. And that is so when you root, here's what I'm trying to say, root your scary things in purpose. It is a lot easier to do the hard thing when there is purpose or the scary thing when there is like a deep purpose behind it. My purpose is my mission.

My purpose is my team. My purpose is freedom, the freedom to do work. I love the way I want with people that rock. And guess what? The way you get that is by earning it through doing the uncomfortable things required in order to keep it. So when you think of momentum and you think of action and the confidence it builds rooted in purpose and watch the confidence soar. I love all of that and have experienced all of that. I have my tracking too, and my number is eight. You have eight? Oh, good. I love that. I did lucky seven. Lucky seven. It's funny that I did eight. Seven is my favorite number. I'm assuming there was some rational reason, but anyway, I would love to close with your dear fear letter. I read this in the book

and took action on doing it myself. Um, I, I told you this, I reread the book again a few days ago, and I'm going to rewrite my dear fear letter because it's different, um, today than it was the last time I wrote it. Uh, would you be willing to read your dear fear letter to us? Oh, this is so fun. No one's asked me to do this before. Oh, I hope it's a good one. I just read it and I was like, this is genius. Yeah. I've written more Dear Fear letters since this one, no doubt about it. You know, we've all been through a lot, you know, the last couple of years have really been a reckoning for so many of us in so many ways. And, you know, if you are still in the middle of that reckoning,

not sure how to come out of it, if you are still in trauma and just still in the chokehold of fear, this is a great tool you can use to reset your relationship with it and reclaim your power a little bit. So happy to read what I wrote to you. Here's my dear fear letter. Dearest fear. Hi. Thank you so much for being here with me today.

I have to tell you that you are really incredible at what you do. You always keep me safe and you remind me that I'm alive. So I just, I just want to thank you for that. That said, today I have to give a big speech and it's really important that I do great and deliver value to the audience. So I need you to just chill for a minute and grab a seat in the front row so you can watch me crush it. And when that speech is done and I'm in the taxi on the way to the airport, you are welcome to come back on in to make sure I travel safely. But for now, I got this. Thank you. Love you. XOXO, Judith. Now, I always sign my formal name when I'm talking to fear, but that is a perfect, playful way to describe.

Now, maybe you're moving through some real significant trauma. And I get it, right? Write a different letter to fear if that's the kind of letter you need to write. But what I want you to remember is that fear doesn't have to be the enemy. Fear is an incredible compass. And if there is something that you are afraid of, if there's an excuse you're making, instead of getting lost in that, start asking, okay, what am I afraid of? Right? So if you think of a keynote speech, you know, well,

what fear doesn't want me to do is crush it and succeed and make big changes up there on that stage. Because the second that happens, I change and I go a place fear has never been. And then fear can't get to me as fast. And fear doesn't have its grip on me tight enough because now I'm starting to set myself free. So fear has one job and one job only. It is to stop you. If you understand this every day, fear is actually so boring and so basic. It wakes up every day with one job to stop you knowing this is powerful because our job then is to keep moving. That's the anecdote.

So these dear fear letters inspired by Elizabeth Gilbert and big magic have been powerful tools for me to say, you know what? Thank you fear. I appreciate you because you can keep me really safe sometimes, right? Like my fear of the dentist keeps me flossing my teeth, okay? My fear of going to jail keeps me paying my taxes and not killing people, right? Not to be dramatic, but true, right? Our fear can be great, okay? But what it will never be allowed to do is call the shots in my future, in my success, in what I believe I am worthy of in this world. Other people may not like what you have to say

or what you're doing. And other people may not be down for your dreams, but you must never quit on you. You must never abandon yourself, right? Stay true to who you are and remember that fear, fear is a great compass and will certainly a dear friend. Couldn't have closed that out better if I tried. So thank you, Judy, for being here today. It has been a great pleasure of mine. It goes both ways. A beautiful interview. And thank you for having me. My pleasure. If you are listening and you don't yet know Judy Holler, you need to. So go to JudyHoller.com or visit HouseofAnd.com. We'll put all of this in show notes. Or you can follow her on Instagram at JudyHaller or HouseOfAnd. Definitely go order and review her book,

Fear Is My Homeboy. I'm sure you can find it on Amazon, but check your local bookstore so we can support them. And finally, listen to her podcast, Yes And. I'm going to close this out by reading something directly out of Judy's book, which I rarely do. Fear is your friend, your best friend, your business partner, and your homeboy. Why would you want to get rid of something that can keep you safe, be an incredible compass in your life, shake you, wake you, and remind you that you are very much alive. Stop chasing being fearless and start welcoming fear to your life by making space for your fear. Tons and tons of space. You'll never be able to outrun it or get rid of it, but you can befriend it and you can get really good at doing things even while feeling afraid. And that, my friends, is woman's work.